IRC log of swhack on 2002-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:31 [AaronSw]
wasn't a troll, btw
00:40:24 [sbp]
sbp (sean@m63-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
00:40:32 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw is away: dinner
00:43:58 [sbp]
* sbp gets the hang BersIRC
00:44:04 [sbp]
Hmm... can't get the font right
00:44:41 [sbp]
oh well, close enough
00:44:53 [sbp]
where's this all about?
00:44:56 [sbp]
[[[
00:44:56 [sbp]
06:07:11 <sbp> ooh! about a minute to go on BeOS
00:44:56 [sbp]
06:07:56 <AaronSw> http:HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable
00:44:56 [sbp]
MIME-Version: 1.0
00:44:56 [sbp]
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:09:20 GMT
00:44:57 [sbp]
Server: AOLserver/3.3
00:45:05 [sbp]
]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-13.txt
00:49:14 [sbp]
well, it fixed itself
00:49:14 [sbp]
* sbp reviews
00:50:47 [sbp]
woo @ "Aaron Swartz: Secret Agent\nWhere people throw ducks at balloons, and nothing's the way that it seems"
00:51:24 [sbp]
[cite: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/]
00:51:33 [sbp]
but whatever happened to the #swhack Weblog?
00:54:03 [sbp]
"The Google Effect" is rather interesting
00:54:38 [sbp]
[cite: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/2002/01/13/#i1010962036.491212]
00:54:40 [sbp]
Gotta run
00:54:44 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
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sbp (~sean@m204-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
00:59:55 [sbp]
aah, that's better
01:00:37 [sbp]
heh, proof that Aaron's avoiding me:-
01:00:38 [sbp]
[[[
01:00:38 [sbp]
19:00:05 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m26-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
01:00:39 [sbp]
19:07:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: lunch
01:00:40 [sbp]
[...]
01:02:59 [sbp]
[ooh, I love Aaron's server. No really - I do.]
01:05:05 [tav`]
and...
01:05:06 [tav`]
--
01:05:06 [tav`]
* sbp (sean@m63-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
01:05:07 [tav`]
* AaronSw is away: dinner
01:05:08 [tav`]
--
01:05:14 [sbp]
00:40:24 <sbp> sbp (sean@m63-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
01:05:14 [sbp]
00:40:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: dinner
01:05:22 [sbp]
]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-13.txt & http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-14.txt
01:05:26 [sbp]
cheers, tav
01:05:57 [sbp]
wow, that's the longest I've had to wait so far for blogspace.com
01:06:08 [sbp]
in the end, browser.py won :-)
01:15:43 [AaronSw]
<sbp> but whatever happened to the #swhack Weblog?
01:16:03 [AaronSw]
isn't it alright?
01:16:31 [sbp]
you know what I meant :-)
01:16:55 [AaronSw]
no i don't
01:17:38 [sbp]
well as long as we're in the same boat
01:17:55 [AaronSw]
Heh: "Did you know an iPod bounces when you drop it? Mine does-- and it still works fine." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26157&cid=2833573
01:18:00 [AaronSw]
want to play the questions game?
01:18:01 [sbp]
heh, heh
01:18:12 [sbp]
why would I want to play the questions game?
01:18:18 [AaronSw]
why not?
01:18:35 [sbp]
because it sucks
01:18:39 [AaronSw]
timeout.
01:18:45 [AaronSw]
statement, one-love.
01:19:06 [sbp]
wow, I can't believe it's taken me this long to drive you nuts
01:19:18 [AaronSw]
statement, two-love.
01:20:26 [sbp]
blogspace.com: giving a whole new meaning to the word "instant"
01:20:42 [AaronSw]
statement, three-love
01:20:54 [sbp]
Hmm... you forgot the full stop that time
01:21:00 [AaronSw]
game and match.
01:21:20 [sbp]
It's game, *set*, and match. Dear oh dear
01:21:45 [AaronSw]
nope, it's game and match. i checked.
01:21:51 [sbp]
are you feeling O.K., A?
01:22:00 [AaronSw]
Does it seem like i'm not?
01:22:18 [sbp]
why are you answering my questions with a question?
01:22:24 [AaronSw]
why shouldn't i?
01:22:44 [sbp]
I don't know... er... do I?
01:23:22 [AaronSw]
do you know much?
01:23:28 [sbp]
so anyway, is there any way to speed up your server? Let me rephrase that: please speed up your server
01:23:42 [AaronSw]
why don't you kill off all the RSS users?
01:24:05 [AaronSw]
[seems perfectly fast to me]
01:24:36 [sbp]
it took 5 minutes for it to serve a page
01:24:39 [sbp]
*5*
01:24:55 [AaronSw]
maybe it doesn't like you
01:25:06 [sbp]
it doesn't like xena either, in that case
01:25:09 [sbp]
I tried .URI
01:25:20 [sbp]
and I used browser.py - which got it (eventually)
01:25:46 [AaronSw]
i guess i should fix the problem, shouldn't i?
01:26:12 [sbp]
Uh huh :-)
01:28:07 [AaronSw]
hmm, how to do that without breaking links...
01:32:50 [sbp]
so, is Radio better than Blogspace?
01:32:57 [AaronSw]
it's completely different
01:34:03 [sbp]
Yeah, but they're both "post junk to Web" applications
01:34:16 [AaronSw]
so is amaya
01:34:20 [sbp]
I suppose that Radio is aimed at people who don't have good Webspace
01:34:38 [AaronSw]
no, i don't think so
01:34:57 [sbp]
Who do you see the target audience as, then?
01:35:40 [AaronSw]
news junkies
01:36:21 [sbp]
but I could have an Amaya window open on some PUT handling webspace... same effect? What's the difference?
01:37:00 [AaronSw]
umm... amaya doesn't do news aggregation
01:37:16 [AaronSw]
i don't see how it compares.
01:37:35 [sbp]
(PUT handling, e.g.: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/att-0163/02-put.py)
01:38:43 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m827-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
01:39:02 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m827-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
01:39:57 [sbp]
<sbp> ah, right
01:41:02 [AaronSw]
what system is that put handler for?
01:41:43 [sbp]
I presume it will work on any. Tested on WinMe/Apache
01:42:38 [sbp]
it was a very quick hack just to test QuickPut - it should have more stuff added to it
01:42:38 [sbp]
but it works [change the shebang line]
01:44:24 [sbp]
* sbp was rather pleased with QuickPut
01:46:19 [AaronSw]
QuickPut is your Python PUT tool?
01:46:32 [sbp]
yep - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/att-0163/01-QuickPut.py
01:53:21 [sbp]
ooh, funky: http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/mxTidy.html
01:53:34 [AaronSw]
cool
01:54:34 [sbp]
Hmm... I always get confused by download options lately - I have Python 2.2 under CygWin and 2.1/2.2 under Windows...
02:22:10 [AaronSw]
Function definition: "Raise an exception. If you use this I will kill you."
02:59:20 [sbp]
ugh:-
02:59:20 [sbp]
>>> import threading
02:59:20 [sbp]
Traceback (most recent call last):
02:59:21 [sbp]
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
02:59:21 [sbp]
File "/usr/lib/python2.2/threading.py", line 5, in ?
02:59:21 [sbp]
import thread
02:59:21 [sbp]
ImportError: No module named thread
03:02:46 [AaronSw]
Heh.
03:03:02 [AaronSw]
watch the memes flow: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/13.html#a120
03:03:30 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh
03:14:24 [sbp]
interesting article: http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html
03:15:00 [sbp]
http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html
03:15:05 [sbp]
um...
03:15:06 [sbp]
@ http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html
03:15:06 [AaronSw]
He sounds cool.
03:15:27 [chumpster]
A: http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html from sbp
03:15:33 [AaronSw]
Uh oh: "500 Server Error CanÕt evaluate the expression because the name ÒtemplateÓ hasnÕt been defined."
03:15:48 [sbp]
A:|An Interview With Tony Benn
03:15:49 [chumpster]
titled item A
03:16:08 [AaronSw]
A::Tony Benn sounds cool.
03:16:09 [chumpster]
commented item A
03:16:33 [sbp]
A::This interview is about numerous things, but generally globalization - and how it's a new form of imperialism in Benn's opinion
03:16:34 [chumpster]
commented item A
03:16:56 [sbp]
A::"""I'm interested in language. We used to call it the War Office. Then it became the Ministry of Defence. We used to talk about the hydrogen bomb, now we talk about a deterrent. And the language is very cleverly constructed to give the impression that it's not what it is. Humanitarian Intervention. World Peace."""
03:16:57 [chumpster]
commented item A
03:17:36 [AaronSw]
A::Sounds like [Chomsky|http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm].
03:17:37 [chumpster]
commented item A
03:18:44 [AaronSw]
.acronym nntr
03:18:45 [xena]
nntr: No Need To Reply, Nothing New to Report
03:18:49 [AaronSw]
.acronym eom
03:18:51 [xena]
eom: End Of Message, End Of Month, Earl of March (secondary school), Echelons of Maintenance (USMC logistics), Electro-Optic Modulator, End of Matter, End Of Memory, End of Mission, End of Module, Enlisted Open Mess, Equations Of Motion, Every Other Monday, Every Other Month, Execution Ordering Method, Extra-Ocular Movement (medical), Extra-Ocular Muscle (medical)
03:22:01 [AaronSw]
Oooh. I think I may be on the verge of fixing The RSS Problem that makes the server so slow.
03:23:37 [sbp]
A::Chomsky is mentioned a couple of times in the interview
03:23:39 [chumpster]
commented item A
03:23:44 [sbp]
hey, great!
03:24:34 [AaronSw]
Can you hammer on http://rss.blogspace.com/ for me? make sure everything works
03:25:26 [sbp]
seems fine
03:25:40 [sbp]
robotWisdom is slow
03:25:52 [AaronSw]
yeah. i guess it's because it's such a big page
03:26:13 [sbp]
why don't you use checklinks?
03:26:20 [AaronSw]
checklinks?
03:26:24 [AaronSw]
oh
03:26:32 [sbp]
here: http://validator.w3.org/checklink?url=http://rss.blogspace.com/
03:26:42 [AaronSw]
yeah, that's not going to help me, tho
03:27:31 [sbp]
A::[on people moving right as they get older] """take the four members of the SDP - Jenkins, Owen, Williams and Rogers - they all became members of the House of Lords. I mean, that really is something isn't it?"""
03:27:32 [chumpster]
commented item A
03:28:50 [AaronSw]
alright, here we go...
03:29:38 [AaronSw]
seems to be working
03:30:15 [AaronSw]
odd: radio us running, but it's not in my dock
03:31:38 [tav`]
hmz
03:31:46 [sbp]
heh, this applies to lots of things: """When somebody comes up with a progressive idea, to begin with, you're mad, bonkers. Then if you go on, you're dangerous. Then there's a pause. Then you can't find anyone who can say they thought of it in the first place. That's how progress is made."""
03:31:47 [tav`]
rss and blogspace are the same machine
03:31:54 [tav`]
how does it minimise load?
03:32:06 [sbp]
[[[
03:32:06 [sbp]
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/campfront.htm
03:32:06 [sbp]
What to do: The link is forbidden! This needs fixing. Usual suspects: a missing index.html or Overview.html, or a missing ACL.
03:32:11 [sbp]
]]] - checklink
03:32:15 [AaronSw]
the rss server won'y crash the blogspace server.
03:32:20 [AaronSw]
err won't
03:32:33 [tav`]
ah, moving it to vorpal?
03:32:54 [AaronSw]
not yet... but this is the first step towards doing that
03:33:16 [AaronSw]
basically rss.blogspace.com and blogspace.com are now two completely separate server processes on the machine
03:33:19 [tav`]
has vorpal arrived yet?
03:33:26 [AaronSw]
no... stupid dell takes forever.
03:33:29 [tav`]
ah
03:33:31 [tav`]
hmz
03:33:37 [tav`]
that reminds me, i ordered a dell
03:33:48 [AaronSw]
they don't actually build your machine until 3 weeks after you order. ;-)
03:34:03 [tav`]
got the dell check status link for me?
03:34:20 [AaronSw]
for your server?
03:34:36 [tav`]
no, this one's just a workstation
03:34:54 [tav`]
although it cost a tad more than vorpal
03:34:59 [AaronSw]
heh!
03:35:09 [AaronSw]
order status: http://support.dell.com/us/en/dellcare/segtopic_ccare_nav_002_ccare.asp
03:35:22 [tav`]
thanks
03:35:29 [tav`]
did they send you an email after you bought it?
03:35:33 [AaronSw]
two
03:35:36 [tav`]
hmz
03:35:42 [tav`]
straight away?
03:35:58 [AaronSw]
yeah... maybe 10-15 minutes delay
03:36:13 [tav`]
hmz
03:38:27 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m137-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com)))
03:38:46 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m137-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
03:39:16 [tav`]
.change 1180 gbp to usd
03:39:18 [xena]
1,180.00 (United Kingdom Pounds (GBP)) makes 1,710.01 (United States Dollars (USD))
03:39:28 [tav`]
a grand more than vorpal
03:40:51 [tav`]
You have been issued with Internet Receipt Number IR1726-1114460
03:40:57 [tav`]
that's the only bit of data i have
03:41:03 [AaronSw]
hmm
03:41:08 [AaronSw]
why's it so expensive?
03:41:36 [tav`]
it has a monitor ;p
03:41:43 [AaronSw]
aha
03:42:05 [AaronSw]
i found that dell RAM was a real ripoff, so i bought from crucial.com instead
03:42:10 [tav`]
a modem, and other such useless shit
03:42:19 [AaronSw]
ms windows?
03:42:25 [tav`]
oh, yea
03:42:27 [AaronSw]
probably another $500
03:42:36 [tav`]
that wasn't optional
03:42:48 [AaronSw]
heh, you can auction it on that linuxjournal site
03:42:49 [tav`]
heh, a lot of the crap wasn't optional
03:43:16 [tav`]
it's not for me, i bought it for a friend
03:43:23 [AaronSw]
aha
03:43:52 [tav`]
but he hasn't said anything about it
03:44:00 [tav`]
and i haven't got any emails
03:45:06 [AaronSw]
lol. Dave Winer: "Life is good. Aaron Swartz has discovered Jeremiah Rogers. Two prodigies, both in their teens. Both off-the-scale smart. The Bill Gates of 2010 meets his Paul Allen. Which is which?"
03:45:29 [tav`]
jeremiah rogers?
03:45:52 [sbp]
Heh, heh
03:45:53 [AaronSw]
you should read my weblog
03:46:07 [tav`]
you have a weblog?
03:46:13 [tav`]
besides swhack that is
03:46:19 [AaronSw]
just started today: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/
03:46:46 [tav`]
oooh!
03:46:47 [tav`]
http://radio.weblogs.com/0100864/
03:46:49 [tav`]
heh
03:46:58 [sbp]
You knew about Jeremiah ages ago, didn't you? Introduced him to me?
03:46:58 [AaronSw]
heh
03:47:08 [AaronSw]
yeah, but i never wrote to him before.
03:47:23 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw subscribes to tav
03:47:28 [AaronSw]
's feed
03:47:44 [sbp]
* sbp notes http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/01/13#lda9233d89208760ce39551a4afe6377f
03:47:45 [sbp]
ah, right
03:47:45 [sbp]
Winer's odd use of the word "discovered" is what threw me
03:47:51 [AaronSw]
i hope to get a steady supply of daily "hmz"s
03:48:14 [sbp]
Wow, so Winer linked to your blog already? You're a star!
03:48:22 [AaronSw]
unfortunately upstreaming is being reallly slow. grrr.
03:49:19 [sbp]
Pff, JR could have at least linked to the Plex
03:49:23 [AaronSw]
yeah
03:50:17 [sbp]
* sbp wonders how to convert http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/rss.xml into something useful, like RDF
03:51:06 [AaronSw]
blogspace to the rescue!
03:51:19 [AaronSw]
http://blogspace.com/rss/rss2rdf?url=http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/rss.xml
03:51:38 [sbp]
heh, great!
03:51:51 [AaronSw]
the rdf:abouts are a tad weird, tho
03:52:07 [sbp]
Hmm... yeah, I just noticed that
03:54:36 [tav`]
hmz http://stats.userland.com/groups/radio1/report.html
03:55:27 [sbp]
26. Aaron Swartz 101
03:55:43 [AaronSw]
whoo! watch me skyrocket
03:55:47 [sbp]
and
03:55:47 [sbp]
95. Aaron Swartz 130
03:55:59 [sbp]
[for all-time]
03:56:08 [sbp]
[well, since 10/7/2001]
03:56:55 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw roots for Radio: upstream, upstream, upstream!
03:57:06 [AaronSw]
woohoo! http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/
03:57:39 [tav`]
jeremiah sounds borning
03:57:42 [tav`]
boring even
03:57:55 [AaronSw]
in what way
03:58:00 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw accidentally runs "while 1: urllib.urlopen('http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/')" ;-)
03:58:03 [sbp]
ah, 'tis fun to spend your evenings borning away
03:58:08 [sbp]
lol
03:58:21 [tav`]
just the style he writes in
03:58:28 [sbp]
neat: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t300-s2101729,00.html
03:58:41 [sbp]
no one is more boring than purple monkey dishwasher
03:58:42 [sbp]
I mean, me
03:58:44 [AaronSw]
600 hits -- i can do it. ;-_
03:58:52 [sbp]
.google "purple monkey dishwasher"
03:58:53 [xena]
"purple monkey dishwasher": http://www.envy.nu/dishwasher
04:00:19 [sbp]
[a Simpsons quote]
04:01:05 [sbp]
WFM, 24. Aaron Swartz 117
04:01:18 [sbp]
How'd you get 16 hits in like 5 minutes?
04:01:29 [AaronSw]
that's the power of while 1... i mean scripting news
04:01:36 [sbp]
:-)
04:01:43 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw stops at hit 144
04:01:51 [sbp]
heh, heh
04:03:15 [sbp]
* sbp gets it via. browser.py
04:03:40 [sbp]
wow, the HTML sucks-ass on a tremendous scale
04:03:54 [sbp]
(but browser.py still renders away, and does a good job too)
04:04:04 [AaronSw]
Bryan Bell is an awesome designer, but he doesn't do HTML too well.
04:04:21 [AaronSw]
ugh. rpc.weblogs.com is down again
04:04:34 [AaronSw]
and up again
04:04:39 [tav`]
what's that?
04:04:58 [AaronSw]
the server you upload to
04:05:16 [sbp]
RPC? What does it use?
04:05:31 [AaronSw]
What do you think? XML-RPC.
04:05:36 [sbp]
Pff, why haven't I got a radio-mug?
04:05:38 [sbp]
heh, heh
04:05:53 [AaronSw]
They did invent it after all.
04:07:16 [sbp]
* sbp wonders where he can get a mug from
04:09:03 [AaronSw]
copy and paste
04:10:33 [sbp]
pardon?
04:11:38 [AaronSw]
which mug?
04:11:49 [AaronSw]
there's http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/radioBadge.gif
04:11:59 [AaronSw]
and http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/header3.gif
04:12:17 [sbp]
the latter
04:12:27 [AaronSw]
you could always go with http://www.scripting.com/images/2002/01/12/xmlCoffeeCup.gif
04:12:35 [AaronSw]
or even http://www.scripting.com/images/2002/01/12/dubyaLovesRadio.jpg
04:13:00 [sbp]
heh, heh
04:13:26 [sbp]
BLURB:I Want A Radio Mug
04:13:29 [chumpster]
B: I Want A Radio Mug from sbp
04:14:34 [AaronSw]
Nice domain name: http://www.deadlybloodyserious.com/
04:14:40 [AaronSw]
now we'll call the FBI
04:15:05 [sbp]
B::Winer plasters pictures ([http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/header3.gif|1], [http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/radioBadge.gif|2]) of the mug everywhere, and entices you to buy one... but you can't! What a rip-off.
04:15:05 [chumpster]
commented item B
04:17:28 [AaronSw]
B::They're not yet at [Store.UserLand|http://store.UserLand.com/] but I'm sure they'll soon be [CafePress|http://www.cafepress.com/]
04:17:31 [chumpster]
commented item B
04:18:07 [AaronSw]
another mug: http://www.scripting.com/images/radioMugOnGrey.gif
04:18:32 [tav`]
was radio commercial b4?
04:18:40 [AaronSw]
no
04:18:56 [AaronSw]
well... it was commercial but free
04:19:05 [tav`]
thought so
04:23:04 [sbp]
B::Ooh, here's a [http://www.scripting.com/images/radioMugOnGrey.gif|wonderful image of the mug]
04:23:06 [chumpster]
commented item B
04:23:20 [AaronSw]
I'm trying to find the original graphic, but no luck
04:23:58 [AaronSw]
he had a vote... there were two. one was the cactus, the other was the guy on the horse.
04:26:36 [tav`]
did userland always do the hosting too?
04:26:56 [AaronSw]
yeah, tho it was at ourfavoritesongs.com before, and wasn't as nicely done
04:27:06 [tav`]
ah
04:27:24 [tav`]
what if i want to serve from a real fast server?
04:27:32 [AaronSw]
it has ftp support
04:27:35 [AaronSw]
aha: http://surveys.userland.com/surveys/run/dave@userland.com/whichPicForTheCoffeeMug
04:28:03 [AaronSw]
B::Here's a [high-quality copy of Super Cactus|http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug1.gif] for your enjoyment.
04:28:04 [chumpster]
commented item B
04:28:19 [sbp]
note: http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$7546
04:28:33 [tav`]
http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug1.gif
04:28:35 [tav`]
http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug2.gif
04:28:47 [tav`]
ah, AaronSw blogged
04:29:03 [AaronSw]
B::Personally, I prefer [the spaced-out faceless cowboy|http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug2.gif].
04:29:05 [chumpster]
commented item B
04:31:42 [AaronSw]
B::But I originally [voted|http://surveys.userland.com/surveys/run/dave@userland.com/whichPicForTheCoffeeMug] for the cactus, so maybe I'm just suffering from cactus overload.
04:31:44 [chumpster]
commented item B
04:32:42 [AaronSw]
working. [...] Oh, and please don't mention this email when you take it down. Or I'd have to kill you :).
04:32:47 [AaronSw]
oh shoot
04:34:03 [sbp]
well, I laugh
04:34:13 [sbp]
newlines in quotes *really* suck
04:34:16 [AaronSw]
now you will have to be killed too
04:35:58 [sbp]
and anyone who reads the logs?
04:36:08 [AaronSw]
they won't understand
04:36:09 [sbp]
ooh: 17. Aaron Swartz 173
04:36:14 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw does jedi hand-waving action
04:37:02 [AaronSw]
Ah, Jeremiah linked to the Plex. And put it on his sidebar!
04:37:19 [AaronSw]
I need to figure out this sidebar stuff.
04:38:09 [sbp]
great!
04:38:58 [sbp]
lol! "Sean wants a Radio mug...a lot, apparently."
04:39:03 [sbp]
thanks :-)
04:39:30 [AaronSw]
:-)
04:41:18 [sbp]
* sbp sits back and waits for his mug to arrive
04:41:42 [AaronSw]
you don't even have a weblog!
04:41:46 [AaronSw]
you're a nobody in UserLand
04:41:54 [sbp]
That is true
04:42:09 [sbp]
But I have a website... that kinda makes up for it
04:42:19 [AaronSw]
pffft
04:42:23 [sbp]
and I have #swhack as a Weblog
04:42:32 [sbp]
you have to bow to #swhack
04:43:59 [AaronSw]
no i don't
04:48:03 [AaronSw]
wow, what a URL: http://toolsdirectory.manilasites.com/directory/9/printOutline/extraInfo/iWasVeryExcitedAboutRadioUserlandButThereDidntSeemToBeAnEasyWayToPrintYourOutlinesWithALittleDiggingAndALotOfHelpIHaveMadeASuitetoolThatDoesJustThat/blatestReleaseDateb/hereIsTheSuite/addAScriptToSystemstartupTableThatHasTheFollowingLine
04:49:18 [deltab]
with URLs like that, who needs actual pages?
04:49:30 [AaronSw]
great for links users
04:49:48 [deltab]
huh? why?
04:50:04 [AaronSw]
you don't even have to render the page :)
04:50:06 [AaronSw]
super-persistent too
04:50:48 [sbp]
heh, heh
04:50:59 [sbp]
come on everybody, use "data:" URIs!
04:51:57 [deltab]
yeah
04:52:10 [deltab]
any browsers support it?
04:52:17 [sbp]
Mozilla
04:52:24 [deltab]
ah, good
04:54:25 [AaronSw]
how do I do <small> in CSS?
04:54:29 [sbp]
Doesn't advertising that face that you're a secret agent make you less of a secret agent, and more of an agent
04:54:34 [sbp]
?
04:54:37 [sbp]
s/face/fact/
04:54:46 [deltab]
font-size: smaller
04:54:52 [AaronSw]
and align=center?
04:55:00 [sbp]
text-align: center
04:55:02 [deltab]
text-align: center
04:55:05 [AaronSw]
cool
04:55:32 [sbp]
I'd advise setting an em value for font-size, not smaller
04:55:39 [sbp]
perhaps 0.8em
04:55:51 [deltab]
ah, yeah
04:55:56 [AaronSw]
that's what you said last time and I had three viewers lose their eyesight.
04:56:19 [sbp]
heh. Well, browsers are inconsistent whatever the CSS :-)
04:56:31 [deltab]
why are you making text smaller?
04:56:37 [sbp]
set it to 0.9em and check it on everything you've got
04:56:48 [AaronSw]
i'm too lazy for that
05:04:55 [sbp]
ha! Move over Larry Staton Jr.: 14. Aaron Swartz 217
05:05:11 [AaronSw]
heh!
05:05:14 [sbp]
and watch out Wes :-)
05:05:34 [AaronSw]
http://www.w3.org/2000/06/webdata/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netcrucible.com%2Fxslt%2Fopml.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0100663%2Fgems%2FmySubscriptions.opml
05:06:03 [sbp]
nice
05:06:31 [AaronSw]
Does the DHTML work for you?
05:07:06 [sbp]
it doesn't follow the "links", but it makes them all pretty
05:07:14 [tav`]
ehm
05:07:27 [tav`]
how do you comment on a weblog ?
05:07:31 [tav`]
how do you comment on a weblog item?
05:07:47 [AaronSw]
you link to it from your weblog and follow the link, so it appears in one's refferers
05:07:51 [AaronSw]
or you just use crit
05:07:54 [AaronSw]
or annotea
05:08:34 [tav`]
how does wes do it?
05:08:40 [tav`]
or is that manila power?
05:08:41 [AaronSw]
we has manila
05:08:44 [AaronSw]
err wes
05:08:49 [tav`]
right
05:08:53 [AaronSw]
yeah, that's the prob with radio
05:09:01 [AaronSw]
of course radio can mirror to a manila site
05:09:50 [sbp]
tav, where's your test site?
05:10:48 [sbp]
ah: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100864/
05:10:55 [sbp]
via. http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/gems/mySubscriptions.opml
05:11:18 [sbp]
oh, I like the entry - http://radio.weblogs.com/0100864/2002/01/14.html#a1
05:11:39 [sbp]
I need a cool word to say a lot
05:11:46 [AaronSw]
semanticWeb-long!
05:13:09 [AaronSw]
Heh: "Some of [Wes'] code is running on every request that Radio processes."
05:13:10 [AaronSw]
Aha, so that's why it's so slow.
05:13:43 [sbp]
woo! semanticWeb-long! ^5
05:13:51 [sbp]
heh, heh
05:13:53 [deltab]
hmm, something odd happened to rdfig in http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/
05:14:02 [deltab]
err...
05:14:10 [AaronSw]
oh?
05:14:11 [deltab]
in http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/gems/mySubscriptions.opml
05:14:37 [AaronSw]
what's so odd?
05:14:47 [sbp]
ooh, that's weird
05:14:50 [AaronSw]
I like how it got tagged ith a special version="RSS1"
05:14:54 [deltab]
the description
05:15:39 [AaronSw]
What's odd about that? it's the description in http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/index.rss.
05:15:54 [sbp]
odd
05:16:32 [deltab]
that's not a description
05:17:00 [AaronSw]
it hangs out with the other descriptions on weekends
05:17:50 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw changes his tagline to "<a href="http://purl.org/net/sbp/">Sean</a>: Doesn't advertising that face that you're a secret agent make you less of a secret agent, and more of an agent?"
05:18:55 [tav`]
how is http://www.w3.org/2000/06/webdata/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netcrucible.com%2Fxslt%2Fopml.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0100663%2Fgems%2FmySubscriptions.opml constructed?
05:19:06 [AaronSw]
isn't it obvious from the url?
05:19:29 [deltab]
hehe
05:19:35 [tav`]
it is after pasting it
05:20:37 [sbp]
tagline: hooray!
05:20:38 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw trims it to: <a href="http://purl.org/net/sbp/">Sean</a>: Doesn't advertising the fact that you're a secret agent make you less secret?
05:20:50 [sbp]
Doesn't advertising the fact that you're a secret agent make you less secret?
05:20:53 [sbp]
there, I said it
05:20:58 [AaronSw]
Phew.
05:21:21 [sbp]
Hmm... no change
05:21:22 [AaronSw]
next week: maya: hmz is the meaning of life
05:21:30 [sbp]
heh. That is a good line
05:22:03 [sbp]
that's the problem with me getting a Radio account - I'd have to come up with a tagline that's earth-shattering and so forth
05:22:15 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
05:22:57 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: <maya> hmz is the meaning of life
05:24:22 [tav`]
damn "garret":http://radio.weblogs.com/0001246/ !
05:24:26 [tav`]
using my style!
05:24:39 [AaronSw]
your style?
05:24:46 [tav`]
my font, my lowercasing
05:24:54 [AaronSw]
Tony Collen: "I think that kids need to be in high school with their peers, or they'll grow up weird (No offense, Aaron)."
05:24:59 [AaronSw]
I bett garret predates you.
05:25:24 [tav`]
aristotle predates me, so?
05:25:25 [tav`]
;p
05:25:38 [AaronSw]
i mean in his use of the style
05:25:47 [AaronSw]
heh! Jeremiah: "I can't complain, really, although Aaron and I haven't discussed any plans to monopolize any specific markets at the moment."
05:25:56 [tav`]
lol
05:26:02 [AaronSw]
"I'm thinking we should go for the plastic food storage market, lord knows tupperware is dreadfully expensive."
05:26:56 [sbp]
I think that Tony Collen is weird
05:27:00 [AaronSw]
meme spreads further: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100097/2002/01/13.html#a17
05:28:09 [AaronSw]
heh, it's such a circle-jerk, whatever that means, but it sure is fun
05:28:44 [sbp]
ugh, that style is going to start getting on my nerves :-)
05:29:09 [sbp]
everyone on the Web is going to be using that style, soon. At least it'll be easier to set user CSS
05:29:13 [AaronSw]
heh
05:29:21 [AaronSw]
we need atariboy to make a new one for us
05:31:18 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m414-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com)))
05:31:36 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m414-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
05:32:12 [sbp]
<sbp> Who's Mark Cohen?
05:32:30 [AaronSw]
another blogger i know
05:32:36 [AaronSw]
ah, here's tony
05:33:07 [sbp]
Tony?
05:33:15 [AaronSw]
tony collen: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100630/
05:33:53 [sbp]
Ah, the weird guy
05:34:07 [AaronSw]
heh, someone set their referer to http://static.userland.com/images/llamas/winernakedsm.jpg
05:34:26 [AaronSw]
methinks they give too much credit
05:34:54 [sbp]
heh, heh
05:35:53 [sbp]
heh:-
05:35:54 [sbp]
[[[
05:35:55 [sbp]
Favorites:
05:35:55 [sbp]
Aaron Swartz
05:35:55 [sbp]
Adam Curry
05:35:55 [sbp]
Dave Winer
05:35:56 [sbp]
Jeremiah
05:35:58 [sbp]
Joel Spolsky
05:36:00 [sbp]
]]] - Cohen
05:36:38 [sbp]
You're in good company there
05:37:24 [sbp]
update: 13. Aaron Swartz 253
05:37:34 [AaronSw]
ooh
05:37:50 [sbp]
I can't wait until you inevitably overtake Wes :-)
05:38:20 [sbp]
you made http://www.idiosync.net/
05:38:33 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
05:38:43 [sbp]
I guess that's automatic, though
05:38:57 [AaronSw]
yeah
05:42:34 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw quotes sbp: "I think that Tony Collen is weird."
05:43:01 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw says: High School is "a culture of competition (who's popular? who's got the drugs? who's got the money?) and one that's very self-focused."
05:43:06 [sbp]
Mwahahahaha!
05:43:33 [sbp]
(at the yet another off-the-cuff sbp quote)
05:43:57 [sbp]
and for your saying: top marks. You did very well, Aaron. Now, don't let us down quote-wise next time
05:44:10 [AaronSw]
Heh.
05:44:18 [AaronSw]
What letter grade do I get?
05:44:29 [AaronSw]
Will you be sending a note to my parents?
05:45:20 [sbp]
Hmm... I give you an "A", although why that's a better letter than any other in the alphabet, I don't know. Oh, of course - there are two of them at the beginning of your forename
05:45:34 [tansaku2]
tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
05:45:47 [sbp]
wow, tansaku^2
05:47:04 [sbp]
So, are you going to be purchasing R8?
05:47:12 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
05:47:17 [tansaku2]
tansaku2 is now known as tansaku
05:47:19 [AaronSw]
We'll see in thirty days.
05:47:24 [AaronSw]
Err, 29.
05:47:25 [sbp]
:-)
05:48:40 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack
05:48:49 [AaronSw]
hey lethedrinker
05:48:54 [lethedrinker]
hi Aaron
05:48:56 [sbp]
Hi there
05:49:09 [lethedrinker]
seems to be some press about plex as of late. not sure where from though.
05:49:26 [lethedrinker]
a couple people have dropped me the link though.
05:49:31 [AaronSw]
Who?
05:49:38 [AaronSw]
it's circulating in the weblog community tonight
05:49:48 [lethedrinker]
1. richard volpato, business manager from au
05:50:19 [lethedrinker]
some random comments that originated from tav`? on #zope as well.
05:50:34 [AaronSw]
ah, well tav always does that
05:50:42 [lethedrinker]
i was under the impression it wasn't useable yet.
05:50:57 [lethedrinker]
hi sean ;)
05:51:04 [AaronSw]
no, it's not really.
05:51:20 [AaronSw]
but i think tav believes that if he talks about it enough, it'll appear
05:51:29 [AaronSw]
which is true, because i'll be so embarassed that i'll finish it
05:51:36 [lethedrinker]
bad policy, hype is good, vaporware is bad.
05:51:58 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m900-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
05:52:03 [lethedrinker]
well if its added pressure you want... just announce it :-)
05:52:10 [AaronSw]
at the worst the plex is a thought experiment
05:52:17 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m900-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
05:52:27 [AaronSw]
announce: to where?
05:52:27 [tav`]
plex is far more than a thought experiment ;p
05:52:45 [AaronSw]
well, whoever does the job first i will call the plex ;-)
05:52:47 [lethedrinker]
btw. i (hazmat) hooked up lucene to zope to index comp.lang.python archives, its blazingly fast even through a socket connection. it really has changed the way i think about java/jython.
05:52:49 [sbp]
ooh, Gedankenexperiment
05:53:12 [tav`]
lethedrinker: can you do it w/ jython?
05:53:19 [sbp]
Plex PR: Powered by meme
05:53:19 [lethedrinker]
:-)
05:53:41 [lethedrinker]
you can do almost any java stuff in jython, its just a matter of speed.
05:54:12 [lethedrinker]
there is a good example of using lucene to index xml from the isogen folk in the lucene archive as well.
05:54:48 [lethedrinker]
actually i'm not sure if its reachable from the archives since sf archives SUCK... and the transfer to apache didn't seem to keep the around.
05:55:06 [lethedrinker]
if you're(anyone) interested i can dig it up.
05:55:09 [AaronSw]
ooh, opt-out links: http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html
05:55:34 [AaronSw]
of course my ad blocker blocks them. heh
05:55:51 [sbp]
man, are you still going through my rant-crud-pile?
05:56:00 [tav`]
does dan gilmore have a weblog i can subscribe to?
05:56:01 [AaronSw]
no... did you link to that?
05:56:19 [sbp]
or is that another page out of the billions on the Web that we both found independently within a matter of days
05:56:32 [sbp]
logster, grep technoerotica.net
05:58:13 [logster]
I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'technoerotica.net'
05:58:14 [logster]
0) 2002-01-14 05:56:32 <sbp> logster, grep technoerotica.net
05:58:15 [logster]
1) 2002-01-14 05:55:09 <AaronSw> ooh, opt-out links: http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html
05:58:16 [logster]
2) 2002-01-12 02:42:40 <sbp> interesting (opt out of pop-ups, using cookies): http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html
05:58:18 [AaronSw]
via powazek
05:58:18 [tav`]
lethedrinker: please, i be interested
05:58:18 [AaronSw]
tav, http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/ no rss it appears
05:58:18 [AaronSw]
you'll have to use my hack
05:58:18 [lethedrinker]
tav`: email?
05:58:18 [tav`]
ah, well i wanted to blog his google thing
05:58:31 [sbp]
thought so
06:00:53 [lethedrinker]
tav`: email?
06:02:18 [AaronSw]
Lemur: What do you use to create your sites?
06:02:18 [AaronSw]
Powazek: An undying optimism, a belief in the the unspoken goodness of the average Joe, and coffee. Lots of coffee.
06:02:23 [AaronSw]
- http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/powazek/index.htm
06:03:54 [sbp]
Heh
06:04:25 [tav`]
tav@espians.com
06:05:50 [sbp]
I like what Powazek has to say. And he has a cool name
06:06:09 [lethedrinker]
.google uddi and python
06:06:12 [xena]
uddi and python: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth4/?open&l=810,t=grws,p=pws4
06:06:39 [lethedrinker]
are espians consultants?
06:07:06 [AaronSw]
i believe the answer is "yes, if you pay them"
06:08:09 [AaronSw]
And with that, dear friends, I must depart for the land of sleep.
06:08:16 [lethedrinker]
sweet dreams
06:08:38 [AaronSw]
thanks
06:08:43 [sbp]
I will also go
06:09:04 [sbp]
An IRC channel without Aaron Swartz in it is like T.V. without The Simpsons
06:09:16 [tav`]
maybe for you sbp ;p
06:09:25 [sbp]
heh
06:09:26 [sbp]
Gotta run
06:09:28 [AaronSw]
lol
06:09:32 [AaronSw]
c'ya
06:09:33 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
06:09:39 [tav`]
g'nite aaron
06:09:53 [tav`]
i feel real good today
06:11:21 [lethedrinker]
so are espians just in it for the love of the game, or is there an actual profit motive behind the organization?
06:12:39 [tav`]
* tav` looks to deltab and AaronSw
06:13:12 [tav`]
we last paid deltab a salary 9 months ago
06:13:41 [lethedrinker]
wow, must have been a fat paycheck ;)
06:13:55 [lethedrinker]
* lethedrinker forgets the question for latter.
06:14:00 [lethedrinker]
just curious.
06:14:06 [tav`]
safe to say, espians are in it for the love
06:14:25 [tav`]
we want to make a true change to the world
06:15:01 [tav`]
re: money, for us to achieve the espian vision, we need a lot of resources
06:15:33 [tav`]
we are talking more resources than bill gates can buy here
06:16:08 [tav`]
so, esp will be making a lot of money along the way
06:16:37 [tav`]
read....
06:16:41 [tav`]
.google espian model
06:16:42 [xena]
espian model: http://tav.espians.com/espian_model_chat
06:16:43 [lethedrinker]
ah.. so everyone here is young and idealistic.
06:17:06 [tav`]
we have some old and idealistic individuals too ;p
06:17:12 [tav`]
.wn idealistic
06:17:14 [xena]
idealistic defined as:
06:17:15 [xena]
- adj 1: of or relating to the philosophical doctrine of the reality of ideas [syn: {ideal}]
06:17:16 [xena]
- 2: represented in the abstract rather than as they really are [syn: {ideal}]
06:17:17 [xena]
- 3: of high moral or intellectual value; elevated in nature or style; "an exalted ideal"; "argue in terms of high-flown ideals"- Oliver Franks; "a noble and lofty concept" [syn: {exalted}, {high-flown}, {high-minded}, {lofty}, {rarefied}, {rarified}, {noble-minded}]
06:17:26 [lethedrinker]
is there a license preference among espians?
06:17:44 [tav`]
idealist in definition 3 rather than 1
06:17:56 [tav`]
gpl / lgpl
06:18:15 [tav`]
although we might be redefining the lgpl sometime
06:19:58 [lethedrinker]
so would i become an espian if wanted to change the world (still idealistic (although possibly fading), and relatively young (old in heart):)
06:20:49 [tav`]
sure, would be welcome to
06:21:10 [tav`]
do you code?
06:21:55 [tav`]
or rather, what can you code in?
06:22:02 [tav`]
and to what level?
06:24:56 [lethedrinker]
at all levels.
06:25:15 [lethedrinker]
in many different things ;)
06:25:20 [lethedrinker]
sorry, let me rephrase.
06:25:54 [lethedrinker]
python guru, zope guru, java expert, c++ newbie, c good, perl hate:)., tcl expert,
06:26:00 [lethedrinker]
acs expert
06:26:25 [lethedrinker]
graphical tk - gtk, tcl, qt (last is preferred)
06:26:36 [lethedrinker]
relational - oracle very good, pg very good.
06:26:43 [lethedrinker]
network programming expert
06:26:55 [lethedrinker]
xml excellent.
06:26:57 [lethedrinker]
sigh.
06:27:06 [tav`]
heh
06:27:22 [lethedrinker]
i could go on, but its boring... isn't it.
06:27:33 [tav`]
ocaml ?
06:27:53 [lethedrinker]
no. seen it. trying to pick up haskell though.
06:28:15 [lethedrinker]
is ocaml a functional language?
06:28:24 [tav`]
yes
06:28:46 [tav`]
it's quite a nice mix
06:29:09 [lethedrinker]
hmm.. interesting i'll look it over, i wanted to pick up a pure functional language, one with syntax more agreeable to me than lisp.
06:29:26 [lethedrinker]
i know its fast, and typed, and compiled, and french ;)
06:29:46 [tav`]
scheme? ;p
06:30:24 [tav`]
i've also been looking at oz, but not enough time to spend on that
06:30:38 [lethedrinker]
e-rights looked interesting as well. d
06:30:43 [lethedrinker]
sorry e-lang.
06:31:04 [tav`]
yea, e's cool
06:31:09 [tav`]
zooko is all over e
06:31:40 [deltab]
'e-lang' isn't a great way to refer to it, since there's at least one other E language
06:31:57 [tav`]
'e' ;p
06:31:58 [lethedrinker]
yah, the other thing about me is, i have my fingers in alot of stuff.
06:32:07 [lethedrinker]
does 'e' real do the job of a name though.
06:32:18 [tav`]
for me, yea
06:32:34 [deltab]
http://wouter.fov120.com/e/
06:32:49 [tav`]
if you hadn't said erights b4 though, i might have thought of erlang
06:34:36 [tav`]
hmz, never heard of that b4 deltab
06:35:52 [lethedrinker]
tav`: isn't rdf guru level knowledge a requirement for espies.
06:36:15 [tav`]
espies? that's new
06:36:17 [deltab]
no, thank goodness
06:36:20 [tav`]
and, no
06:54:57 [tav`]
ROFL
06:54:59 [tav`]
http://www.ourfavoritesongs.com/users/tav@espnow.com
06:56:55 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker is now known as hazmat
06:58:49 [hazmat]
.wn rights
07:01:05 [hazmat]
xena where are you
07:01:11 [hazmat]
.seen xena
07:01:12 [xena]
xena seen in xena saying: [ dataflake seen joining #zope ~ 15 hr(s) 15 min(s) 19 sec(s) ago ] ~ 1 day(s) 17 hr(s) 25 min(s) 7 sec(s) ago
07:01:29 [hazmat]
ahh restricted function of some sort.
07:19:49 [deltab]
http://crazyapplerumor.blogspot.com/
07:21:41 [deltab]
or http://crazyapplerumors.com/ as it will be
07:38:50 [tansaku]
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07:39:55 [tcollen]
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07:41:54 [tcollen]
hello party people
07:44:23 [tcollen]
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08:18:24 [tav`]
heh
08:18:26 [tav`]
heyas tcollen
08:18:57 [tav`]
i'm afraid i disagree with you ;p
08:19:23 [tav`]
on the topic of unschooling that is
08:19:38 [tav`]
microsoft make an irc client?
08:19:40 [tav`]
* tav` shudders
08:24:59 [tcollen]
ha
08:25:08 [tcollen]
keep versioning me
08:25:35 [tcollen]
it's random
08:27:59 [tcollen]
anyway, that's cool
08:28:43 [tcollen]
i just don't know if it's appropriate in every situation
08:28:49 [tcollen]
to each his own, eh
08:29:30 [tav`]
* tav` shudders
08:29:35 [tav`]
oh
08:30:04 [tav`]
nice script
08:30:07 [tcollen]
heh =]
08:30:13 [tav`]
had me real worried there
08:30:32 [tav`]
i recall trying out microsoft chat once, and coming out quite distraught
08:30:34 [tcollen]
apropos, microsoft comic chat uses irc
08:30:35 [tcollen]
yeah
08:30:36 [tcollen]
haha
08:30:59 [tcollen]
plus all the commands it spews to the channel are all annoying
08:31:31 [tav`]
i've blanked the experience out of mind. it was horrifying ;p
08:31:35 [tcollen]
heheh
08:31:45 [tav`]
so, how'd you find out about #swhack ?
08:31:59 [tcollen]
tracked down through aaron's many pages
08:32:03 [tav`]
ah
08:32:13 [tcollen]
he mentioned the irc network so i got on and just did a whois for him
08:32:27 [tcollen]
the channel isnt +s so it showed up
08:33:06 [tav`]
cunning
08:33:40 [tcollen]
once i had a guy track me down from a .bash_history i left at an old job. that was scary
08:35:53 [tcollen]
anyway, it's 2:30am and i have work tomorrow. i'm gonna hit the sack
08:41:55 [tav`]
g'nite
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14:04:42 [AaronSw]
'Serves 6-8. And by "6-8", we mean "6". And by "6", we mean "2".'
14:23:40 [tansaku2]
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15:07:04 [sbp]
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15:10:24 [sbp]
* sbp jumps
15:10:39 [sbp]
I was just scanning mail without reading it, and noticed my name :-)
15:10:43 [sbp]
[[[
15:10:44 [sbp]
Postal addresses
15:10:44 [sbp]
I found a discussion on this mailing list from March 2001 containing a
15:10:44 [sbp]
proposal from Sean B. Palmer and I was wondering if this was taken any
15:10:45 [sbp]
further.
15:11:09 [sbp]
]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2002Jan/0018
15:44:55 [tav`]
martin cannon?
15:46:59 [tav`]
ralph nader?
15:47:08 [tav`]
george bush??
15:47:23 [tav`]
and rush!
15:52:46 [tav`]
woo!
15:53:00 [tav`]
i get my first radio link!
15:53:16 [tav`]
go scoble!
15:53:45 [sbp]
wow, from Scoble?
15:54:11 [tav`]
http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011
15:54:40 [sbp]
heh, neat: "4. Aaron Swartz 228"
15:55:11 [tav`]
sweet
15:55:15 [sbp]
ooh, you're quoted right at the top
15:55:31 [AaronSw]
heh heh
15:55:40 [sbp]
good idea: "what we should really be doing is emailing _into_ radio"
15:56:07 [sbp]
Hi Aaron
15:57:18 [sbp]
ooh, nice design: http://www.carlhuber.com/
15:57:57 [tav`]
now all i need is for aaron, wes and ozzie to linkto me!
15:58:12 [sbp]
hint, hint
15:58:20 [tav`]
;p
15:59:01 [tav`]
i swear people just view ozzie for the name
15:59:13 [deus_x]
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15:59:13 [xena]
xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
15:59:37 [tav`]
ah
15:59:42 [tav`]
dave linked
15:59:59 [sbp]
lol @ "I guess it all depends on how you define weird."
16:01:06 [sbp]
ooh, did Radio just fold?
16:01:52 [tansaku2]
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16:04:12 [AaronSw]
lol: http://www.futurefeedforward.com/
16:05:15 [AaronSw]
bit of a stretch: "We invented this format in collaboration with Netscape. "
16:11:03 [tav`]
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16:12:23 [AaronSw]
wow, i beat wes!
16:12:28 [sbp]
heh, heh, that's rather good. I like the buckyball and socket joints
16:12:36 [AaronSw]
3. Aaron Swartz242
16:12:40 [sbp]
ooh!
16:14:49 [AaronSw]
and death is no parenthesis
16:15:05 [xena]
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16:15:52 [sbp]
Kishore: "Namaste Aaron Swartz"
16:17:02 [tav`]
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16:17:06 [AaronSw]
ooh: http://ourfavoritesongs.com/users/joeri@mulder.com/dilbert.xml
16:17:35 [tav`]
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16:18:15 [sbp]
what, what?
16:18:21 [AaronSw]
hmm, doesn't work tho
16:18:47 [tav`]
tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
16:22:29 [AaronSw]
Hmm, what do I call thinks like this: "i could of course send off an email to the radio-userland mailing list with the same suggestions. but that breaks the whole model. or at least it does so from my point of view."
16:22:39 [AaronSw]
elitism of metaphor? tyranny of the medium?
16:22:47 [AaronSw]
lack of worse is better?
16:23:45 [AaronSw]
not thinking outside the protocol?
16:38:51 [AaronSw]
.gogle imac dance
16:38:58 [AaronSw]
.google imac dance
16:39:00 [xena]
imac dance: http://h002078c7889d.ne.mediaone.net/~overstim/imacdance
16:40:15 [AaronSw]
http://h002078c7889d.ne.mediaone.net/~overstim/imacdance/ + http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/features/story.jsp?story=114276
16:40:53 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m19-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
16:41:12 [sbp]
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16:41:27 [AaronSw]
http://h002078c7889d.ne.mediaone.net/~overstim/imacdance/ + http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/features/story.jsp?story=114276
16:56:12 [AaronSw]
Robb: "Is there a browser for OS X that implements XSL well?"
16:56:27 [AaronSw]
does Mozilla?
16:59:13 [AaronSw]
seems to http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xslt/
17:00:29 [AaronSw]
.google xslt service
17:00:32 [xena]
xslt service: http://www.w3.org/2001/05/xslt
17:10:17 [sbp]
yes, Mozilla does XSLT
17:10:17 [sbp]
But not fully, I think
17:10:56 [AaronSw]
hmmph
17:24:39 [tcollen]
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17:24:49 [tcollen]
hello secret hideout people
17:24:56 [tcollen]
heh =]
17:25:10 [sbp]
argh!
17:25:24 [sbp]
quick, Aaron, pull up the ladder!
17:25:28 [tcollen]
ha
17:25:37 [AaronSw]
heh, heh, heh
17:26:16 [sbp]
welcome, Tony
17:26:16 [tcollen]
i can leave if it makes you don't want people around. i was here last night at like 3am but only tav was awake
17:26:44 [tcollen]
anyway, yes, hello
17:27:04 [AaronSw]
yeah, i'm not usually on at 3am
17:27:10 [sbp]
oh yeah: 07:41:54 <tcollen> hello party people
17:27:14 [AaronSw]
sbp is on at 3am english time, tho.
17:27:26 [sbp]
[cite: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-14.txt]
17:27:28 [sbp]
Yep, GMT
17:30:08 [sbp]
so, what can we do you for?
17:30:48 [tcollen]
just wanted to pop in and say hi and hang out for a bit before i run off to work
17:31:06 [AaronSw]
what time zone you in? PST?
17:31:06 [AaronSw]
.time pst
17:31:07 [xena]
Jan. 14, 2002 9:32 am US/Pacific
17:31:20 [tcollen]
CST
17:31:34 [AaronSw]
ah, me too. you get to work rather late, then. ;-)
17:31:44 [AaronSw]
I think I should switch to PST -- it'd give me more time in the day.
17:31:59 [AaronSw]
it'd sort of annoy the other people in the house tho
17:32:06 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw goes and switches all the clocks
17:32:17 [sbp]
nah, just go to bed later
17:32:21 [tcollen]
i have a lax work schedule... i'm a student and i work part time. can't fit a full day of work and school in together
17:33:17 [tcollen]
ok that's weird seeing my stuff in a realtime log heh
17:33:31 [AaronSw]
hee hhee
17:33:40 [AaronSw]
now i just need to feed it into radio
17:34:27 [tcollen]
haha, i was thinking of hacking together hourly irc logs into an rss stream
17:34:34 [sbp]
man, that'd be sweet. Just do a txt2voice, and make a feed of it
17:34:37 [tcollen]
so i dont even have to have a client open
17:36:39 [sbp]
so, tc, what kinda stuff are you into?
17:36:55 [tcollen]
work wise or school wise?
17:37:17 [sbp]
um... hobby wise. I couldn't give a crap about what you're forced to do
17:38:28 [sbp]
unless your hobbies and your work/studies overlap. It's always great when that happens
17:38:47 [AaronSw]
well, not always
17:39:11 [sbp]
O.K., not always... but I find it difficult to devote myself to a task (i.e. do it at all) unless it's something that I find interesting. When they overlap, it often makes it easier
17:39:16 [tcollen]
there's actually a ton of overlap
17:39:23 [tcollen]
sbp yeah
17:39:35 [tcollen]
if i wasn't doing web development & programming at my job i'd hate it
17:40:43 [sbp]
and journalism? or is that strictly a ham?
17:41:14 [tcollen]
nah, i'm interested in it
17:41:37 [AaronSw]
wow, already 1085 RU8 weblogs
17:41:57 [tcollen]
i'm in the j-school at umn.edu
17:42:55 [sbp]
if you don't mind me asking (or even if you do), how old are you? I'm 19, and Aaron floats about 14/15, depending upon Winer's opinion
17:43:04 [tcollen]
i'm 23
17:43:14 [sbp]
pff, old man
17:43:16 [tcollen]
haha
17:43:17 [sbp]
:-)
17:44:06 [tcollen]
i get that a lot... i'm one of the oldest among my circle of friends
17:45:07 [AaronSw]
tav, when were you born?
17:46:09 [tcollen]
right now my work and hobbies are leaning towards xml and xslt and content management. i played with radio 8 and had a heart attack at how nice it was
17:46:30 [sbp]
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17:46:50 [AaronSw]
Radio 8: Killing Blogger users one heart attack at a time.
17:46:58 [tcollen]
exactly
17:47:46 [tcollen]
blogger would be a little bit nicer if it ran locally like radio does
17:48:17 [sbp]
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17:48:27 [tcollen]
radio would be a little bit nicer if it let you write valid xhtml and didn't use <font> tags all the time
17:48:40 [AaronSw]
radio doesn't let you write valid xhtml?
17:48:46 [BenSw|School]
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17:49:03 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m265-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
17:49:04 [BenSw|School]
f
17:49:04 [AaronSw]
hey BenSw|away
17:49:09 [AaronSw]
err BenSw|School
17:49:11 [BenSw|School]
hello
17:49:14 [tcollen]
in WYSIWYG mode it tends to screw tags up
17:49:32 [AaronSw]
oh -- that's IE not radio
17:50:37 [tcollen]
weird. i had it remove the quotes around attribute values and change some attributes to uppercase
17:50:52 [tcollen]
and a lot of the tags it writes are in uppercase, too
17:50:57 [BenSw|School]
Hi sbp
17:51:07 [sbp]
Hi there, Ben
17:51:18 [BenSw|School]
Whats up sbp
17:51:36 [sbp]
Just lamenting my connection, and playing the guitar
17:51:53 [BenSw|School]
Heh, heh, heh
17:52:05 [sbp]
I found that breaking a string was actually beneficial - I'm finding some great songs in this super-low tuning
17:52:14 [BenSw|School]
g2g the library is kicking me out
17:52:27 [sbp]
heh, c'ya
17:52:52 [sbp]
Libraries should be open 24/7
17:52:52 [BenSw|School]
BenSw|School has quit (Remote closed the connection)
17:53:48 [AaronSw]
yeah, that'd be cool
17:56:15 [sbp]
Gotta run
17:56:19 [sbp]
Nice speaking with you, tc
17:56:23 [sbp]
c'ya
17:56:24 [tcollen]
* tcollen bows
17:57:31 [tcollen]
speaking of which, i should probably go bike to work now
17:57:51 [tcollen]
bbl i suppose, nice speaking with you, aaron =]
17:57:52 [AaronSw]
c'ya
17:57:58 [AaronSw]
same here
17:58:13 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw checks in initial Chord stuff: http://cvs.plexdev.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/plex/plex/chord/
17:58:22 [tcollen]
tcollen has quit ("IRCjr IRC Client for IBM PCjr version six")
18:05:21 [AaronSw]
Email: "Greetings from the community server for Radio UserLand 8.0."
18:16:48 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:26:45 [sbp]
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18:27:38 [sbp]
Chord stuff, Chord stuff!
18:29:06 [AaronSw]
yeah, go chord!
18:29:43 [sbp]
Hmm... it doesn't even run
18:30:14 [sbp]
what's this meant to be: while id not in (n2, n2.successor]:
18:30:16 [sbp]
dear oh dear
18:30:46 [sbp]
and: def finger[k].interval:
18:31:45 [sbp]
ugh, it doesn't run at all
18:32:16 [sbp]
there's lots of (] stuff
18:32:18 [AaronSw]
it's not meant to run
18:32:27 [AaronSw]
yeah, i haven't translated (] to python yet
18:32:34 [AaronSw]
which side is inclusive, again?
18:32:49 [sbp]
() is non-assignable
18:33:18 [AaronSw]
no, it's not a list, it's a range
18:34:11 [sbp]
I dunno - your Python knowledge is far in excess of mine
18:34:33 [AaronSw]
this has nothing to do with python!
18:34:42 [AaronSw]
it's a math concept
18:35:07 [AaronSw]
i think it's calculus, which i haven't taken yet
18:35:55 [sbp]
* sbp did quite a bit of calculus
18:36:13 [AaronSw]
do you know what i'm talking about, then?
18:36:21 [sbp]
I've got no idea
18:36:28 [AaronSw]
hmm.
18:36:54 [AaronSw]
it's a bunch of space on the number line, like everything between 0 and 5.
18:37:11 [sbp]
oh, a *range*. I've got you now
18:37:30 [AaronSw]
isn't that what i said? <AaronSw> no, it's not a list, it's a range
18:37:55 [sbp]
O.K., so n2 and n2.successor marks the bounds for the range that you're integrating over?
18:38:18 [AaronSw]
NameError: integrating not bound
18:38:39 [AaronSw]
i just need to see if it's between those two points on the number line
18:38:51 [AaronSw]
(actually it's a number circle, mod 512)
18:39:01 [sbp]
ah, right
18:39:16 [AaronSw]
how do you write an inclusive range? [5, 9]?
18:39:52 [sbp]
so it's just something like def in(x, y, z): if (x > y) and (x < z): return 1; else: return 0
18:40:08 [sbp]
do range(5, 9)
18:40:16 [sbp]
but that'll return a list of integers
18:40:38 [AaronSw]
hmm... will i need higher granularity than that?
18:40:45 [AaronSw]
chord does it thusly:
18:40:46 [AaronSw]
if (a == b) {
18:40:46 [AaronSw]
r = n != a; // n is the only node not in the interval (n,n)
18:40:47 [AaronSw]
} else if (a < b) {
18:40:47 [AaronSw]
r = (n > a) && (n < b);
18:40:47 [AaronSw]
} else {
18:40:48 [AaronSw]
r = (n > a) || (n < b);
18:40:50 [AaronSw]
}
18:40:57 [AaronSw]
chord_util.C that is
18:41:30 [sbp]
just copy that, then
18:41:44 [AaronSw]
i think the extra stuff might be in there to deal with the modular arithmetic
18:42:07 [AaronSw]
but here's the problem: i need to know whether (1, 2] is right-side inclusive or left-side inclusive
18:42:49 [sbp]
what do you mean by "left-side inclusive"?
18:43:01 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw asks #math
18:43:02 [AaronSw]
<ChanServ> Notice: [#math] This is a chemistry channel
18:43:20 [AaronSw]
left side inclusive: i.e. the left side of the range is included in the range
18:43:35 [AaronSw]
so 5,9 would be everything > 5 and <= 9
18:43:44 [AaronSw]
as opposed to just > 5 and < 9
18:44:13 [sbp]
ah, right
18:45:18 [sbp]
or it could be both or neither side inclusive
18:45:37 [AaronSw]
yeah. exclusive, perhaps
18:45:41 [sbp]
* sbp forgets the proper terminology
18:45:50 [AaronSw]
http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/1.2/docs/api/javax/swing/table/AbstractTableModel.html seems to indicate [] is inclusive
18:46:01 [AaronSw]
but who can trust java?
18:46:07 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh
18:47:16 [sbp]
heh. My predictions for today - either #math is going to change to "only ops set topic", or I'm going to be banned altogether
18:47:32 [sbp]
[[[
18:47:34 [sbp]
*** Now talking in #math
18:47:39 [sbp]
[...]
18:47:40 [sbp]
*** sbp changes topic to 'Geography discussion channel'
18:47:42 [sbp]
]]] - #math
18:49:27 [AaronSw]
maybe deltab knows
18:50:07 [sbp]
I presume that you're wondering if [] in C is inclusive?
18:50:50 [AaronSw]
nothing to do with C
18:53:04 [sbp]
so you mean [5, 9] in Python? is that inclusive?
18:53:09 [sbp]
that's just a list
18:53:30 [sbp]
integrals are inclusive, AFAIK
18:53:35 [AaronSw]
yeah, it's just a list.
18:53:50 [AaronSw]
i mean in mathematical notation is [4, 5] inclusive
18:53:59 [sbp]
ah
18:57:11 [sbp]
* sbp hasn't come across that set syntax before
18:58:34 [sbp]
Gotta run
18:58:35 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
19:21:37 [deltab]
(exclusive), [inclusive] -- http://id.mind.net/~zona/mmts/miscellaneousMath/intervalNotation/intervalNotation.html
19:21:49 [AaronSw]
cool, thanks
19:21:58 [AaronSw]
how'd you find that?
19:22:06 [AaronSw]
ah, it's called an interval
19:22:26 [deltab]
yeah, I'd forgotten that too
19:28:09 [hazmat]
hazmat is now known as lethedrinker
19:29:50 [AaronSw]
lethedrinker, yoo key attributes for being an espian: you have a funny nick, and you're in #zopelethe
19:30:01 [lethedrinker]
;)
19:30:50 [AaronSw]
is your name really ender?
19:31:56 [lethedrinker]
what can i say my parents liked OSC. ;) , not tis kapil
19:32:10 [AaronSw]
Oh, aha1
19:32:21 [AaronSw]
Kapil Thaevefvklrfhuienlu?
19:32:29 [AaronSw]
apologies if i mispelled your name ;-)
19:32:36 [lethedrinker]
yes, that is the common spelling.
19:32:44 [AaronSw]
heh.
19:33:21 [AaronSw]
Thangavelu
19:33:22 [lethedrinker]
if any you folks are at ipc10, it would be nice to meet.
19:33:24 [lethedrinker]
yup.
19:33:44 [lethedrinker]
.google kapil and python
19:33:46 [AaronSw]
OK, i see you all over then
19:33:47 [xena]
kapil and python: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/catalog-sig/801308
19:33:52 [lethedrinker]
doh.
19:34:10 [AaronSw]
IPC is PyCon?
19:34:20 [lethedrinker]
yes, international python conference.
19:34:35 [AaronSw]
yeah, don't think i'll be able to make that
19:34:41 [lethedrinker]
i mainly tend to stick to the zope lists.
19:34:48 [lethedrinker]
although i track lots of places.
19:34:49 [AaronSw]
i hope i'll be able to get an ogg/mp3 of tim's talk, tho
20:01:33 [sbp]
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20:06:15 [sbp]
ooh, Dave replied: http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$7546#7659
20:07:56 [sbp]
* sbp wonders what list
20:08:34 [sbp]
I suppose the famous "Winer TODO list [* eradicate RSS 1.0 from the face of the earth * Promote R8]"
20:11:48 [sbp]
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20:12:09 [sbp]
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20:14:12 [AaronSw]
lol, you made HTP! http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6874
20:17:19 [sbp]
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20:17:38 [sbp]
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20:17:49 [AaronSw]
lol, you made HTP! http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6874
20:18:04 [sbp]
<sbp> hooray!
20:19:25 [sbp]
But Wes is right: I think that you should get a free mug if you purchase R8
20:33:18 [AaronSw]
definitely
20:34:30 [AaronSw]
Dave'll probably wait until like a week after it expires for that promotion.
20:42:26 [sbp]
heh, yeah
20:50:46 [sbp]
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20:51:04 [sbp]
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20:52:18 [AaronSw]
heh! a good use for patents: http://www.satn.org/archive/2002_01_13_archive.html#8659054
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21:03:26 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.frankston.com/public/essays/DNSSafeHaven.asp
21:03:52 [chumpster]
C: http://www.frankston.com/public/essays/DNSSafeHaven.asp from AaronSw
21:04:00 [AaronSw]
C:|DNS Safe Haven
21:04:01 [chumpster]
titled item C
21:05:26 [AaronSw]
C::Bob Frankston suggests we partition off a piece of the DNS for permanent, unchanable identifiers.
21:05:27 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:06:04 [AaronSw]
C::I think this is a great idea. We could create a TLD (.key or .id) and hand out random 40-character alphanumeric strings.
21:06:05 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:07:39 [sbp]
40 char?
21:07:44 [AaronSw]
C::They'd look like this: a4fge6tha4odmg8915th57jw6j8yhf5w5h8rn87g.id and we'd have 178689910246017054531432477289437798228285773001601743140683776 of them. They're perfectly compatible wiith all existing technologies.
21:07:46 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:08:41 [sbp]
C::Why not have 10-char? They'd be practically memorable, and you'd have 3,656,158,440,062,976 combinations
21:08:45 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:09:25 [sbp]
http://nuwfg89w5g.id/ is a bit better, IMO :-)
21:09:40 [AaronSw]
Good point.
21:09:55 [AaronSw]
C::Good point. We could start at 10 and add more as necessary.
21:10:00 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:10:13 [sbp]
good ol' extensibility
21:10:20 [AaronSw]
C::It's a very nice combination of the persistence of UUIDs with the lookup service of DNS.
21:10:21 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:10:49 [AaronSw]
C::Great for XML namespaces, the W3C website, and plain old PURLs.
21:10:53 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:11:38 [AaronSw]
C::Ten characters would look like: [http://nuwfg89w5g.id/]
21:11:39 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:11:59 [kenm]
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21:12:06 [kenm]
* kenm waves
21:12:11 [AaronSw]
hey kenm
21:12:17 [AaronSw]
we're just discussing permanent random DNS identifiers.
21:12:25 [sbp]
Hi Ken
21:13:27 [kenm]
saw that. might want to put them in levels, and then possibly using one of the "pronouncable password generator" like things to generate them, so you get something like moo.win.id
21:13:30 [sbp]
C::cf. [http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/PersistentDomains|PersistentDomains] in DesignIssues, and [http://logicerror.com/MeRS|MeRS]
21:13:35 [chumpster]
commented item C
21:13:42 [AaronSw]
Yeah, MeMS.
21:13:50 [sbp]
MeRS
21:14:01 [AaronSw]
I was close.
21:14:14 [AaronSw]
The problem with that is people would fight over whoever got cool.id or something like that.
21:14:22 [tav`]
tav` has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
21:14:37 [AaronSw]
mers: http://logicerror.com/mers
21:14:44 [sbp]
you could ban any combination of characters that match words in the OED
21:14:57 [deltab]
not least the Indonesians
21:15:13 [AaronSw]
Yeah, but then folks would fight over fnargle
21:15:20 [AaronSw]
or coo.ool.id
21:15:30 [sbp]
no, only we'd fight over fnargle
21:15:32 [kenm]
ah, but since they're handed out randomly, you'd have to wait until somebody "got" a good one before you could buy it from them, or you'd have to pay thru the nose to buy hundreds of domains before you got a good one
21:15:36 [sbp]
you wouldn't allow "."
21:15:53 [sbp]
got: exactly. That's the problem - someone will get one
21:16:05 [tav`]
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21:16:07 [AaronSw]
kenm, that's the problem tho: I get a good one and put up photos of my cat, then microsoft pays me $3bn to give it to them
21:16:20 [tav`]
tav` has quit (Excess Flood)
21:16:24 [kenm]
yah, and? ;)
21:16:36 [AaronSw]
well we wouldn't have persistence
21:16:37 [sbp]
microsoft1.id
21:16:55 [AaronSw]
mycrowsawft.id
21:17:06 [sbp]
heh
21:17:25 [sbp]
of course, this will never happen. NetSol et al. are probably making stacks of money out of this
21:17:35 [kenm]
and you can't see someone buying deadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeef.id?
21:17:36 [sbp]
and it costs to change IP details etc.
21:18:08 [kenm]
or 123wild456blond789chicks.id
21:18:11 [AaronSw]
kenm, well anything that looks realistic we toss out.
21:18:12 [sbp]
nope, more than 10 characters
21:18:43 [sbp]
<sbp> you could ban any combination of characters that match words in the OED
21:18:56 [kenm]
yah, like mycrowsawft.id
21:19:28 [kenm]
3l33t.id
21:19:30 [AaronSw]
of course that'd require netsol guys to learn l33t speak, so maybe it isn't such a good idea
21:19:34 [AaronSw]
heh, jinx
21:19:40 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh
21:19:59 [sbp]
now you can't talk till somebody says your name, kenm
21:20:02 [sbp]
oh, crap
21:20:04 [AaronSw]
mealling speaks l33t, doesn't he?
21:20:13 [sbp]
does he?
21:20:34 [AaronSw]
oops, i've said too much
21:21:36 [sbp]
:-)
21:24:37 [tav`]
tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
21:24:51 [kenm]
hmm, is this convo related to the wmf link to SATN?
21:24:55 [AaronSw]
yeah
21:26:59 [AaronSw]
Call me crazy, but I think this decade will be the Singularity decade.
21:27:12 [sbp]
You're crazy
21:27:23 [AaronSw]
Internet took twenty years, the Web took ten, the next one will take five, then 2.5, then 1, then half of one.... singularity by 2012
21:29:18 [kenm]
I missed the "google as name server" thread y'day, but that seems like a particularly unworkable idea
21:29:18 [AaronSw]
why's that?
21:29:18 [sbp]
the Plex will that five years? argh
21:29:18 [sbp]
s/that/take/
21:29:19 [kenm]
"better keywords" != better namespace
21:29:19 [AaronSw]
oh, yeah.
21:29:19 [kenm]
the main essay on SATN seems to be favoring the Google search method
21:29:19 [AaronSw]
Hmm.
21:29:19 [AaronSw]
I like the "I'm feeling lucky" document server idea.
21:29:19 [kenm]
heh
21:29:19 [AaronSw]
i wonder where that site went... they were originally using altavista, but it'd clearly work very nicely with google
21:29:45 [deltab]
decade?!
21:29:57 [deltab]
I've been planning on three
21:30:03 [kenm]
which site?
21:30:06 [deltab]
decades
21:30:13 [AaronSw]
three decades?
21:30:24 [AaronSw]
the site that generated an "i'm feeling lucky" string
21:30:29 [deltab]
yeah, 2030 or so
21:30:39 [AaronSw]
hmm, i thought it was 2012...
21:30:43 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw checks calendae
21:30:47 [kenm]
* kenm is missing the reference
21:31:01 [AaronSw]
the mayans and druggies thought the world would end in 20something
21:31:30 [deltab]
the world as we know it now
21:31:51 [deltab]
it'll be replaced by something different
21:31:58 [AaronSw]
http://survive2012.com/why2012maya.html
21:33:07 [deltab]
bah, numerology
21:33:28 [sbp]
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21:33:48 [sbp]
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21:35:02 [sbp]
[[[
21:35:06 [sbp]
REGEDIT4
21:35:07 [sbp]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Command]
21:35:07 [sbp]
@="\"C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1\\iexplore.exe\" -nohome"
21:35:07 [sbp]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Ddeexec]
21:35:07 [sbp]
@="\"http://www.google.com/search?q=%1&btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky\",,-1,0,,,,"
21:35:08 [sbp]
"NoActivateHandler"=""
21:35:09 [sbp]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Ddeexec\Application]
21:35:11 [sbp]
@="IExplore"
21:35:15 [sbp]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Ddeexec\Topic]
21:35:15 [sbp]
@="WWW_OpenURL"
21:35:17 [sbp]
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns]
21:35:19 [sbp]
@="URL:Gdns Protocol"
21:35:21 [sbp]
"EditFlags"=dword:02000000
21:35:23 [sbp]
"URL Protocol"=""
21:35:25 [sbp]
]]] - gdns.reg
21:35:39 [sbp]
No guarantees. If it fucks up your registy, don't blame me
21:35:40 [AaronSw]
heh
21:36:28 [kenm]
gotta run, ttyl
21:36:29 [kenm]
kenm has quit ("Leaving")
21:36:31 [AaronSw]
aha: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wilensky/robust-hyperlinks.html
21:40:27 [AaronSw]
so basically you run their little program and append it to http://www.google.com/search?btnI=1&q=
21:40:43 [sbp]
Yeah
21:41:00 [AaronSw]
too bad it's in java
21:41:32 [AaronSw]
ah, heres an online version: http://dlp.cs.berkeley.edu:8080/cgi-bin/hchen/computesignature.pl
21:42:58 [sbp]
.google subregularities blobworld interlib multivalent cqf wilensky residu narciso bair jaramillo
21:42:59 [xena]
subregularities blobworld interlib multivalent cqf wilensky residu narciso bair jaramillo: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wilensky
21:43:03 [sbp]
:-)
21:43:14 [AaronSw]
@ isbn:0312862075
21:43:15 [chumpster]
D: isbn:0312862075 from AaronSw
21:43:29 [AaronSw]
D:|True Names: And the Opening of the Cyberspace Frontier
21:43:32 [chumpster]
titled item D
21:43:46 [AaronSw]
D::I ordered this book [from Amazon|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312862075/coolbooks02] about five years ago.
21:43:47 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:44:02 [AaronSw]
D::Somewhere along the way I got tired of waiting and downloaded it off MojoNation.
21:44:03 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:44:26 [sbp]
.google swhack html nounism seanpalmer infomesh rdfig mysterylights swad repurpose philisophical
21:44:26 [AaronSw]
D::Last year, they sent us a letter saying that they'd ship the book to us in time for the holidays.
21:44:27 [xena]
swhack html nounism seanpalmer infomesh rdfig mysterylights swad repurpose philisophical: http://www.purl.org/net/sbp
21:44:27 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:44:44 [AaronSw]
D::Unfortunately they sent it to our old address and I never got it. They sent us a new copy a few weeks ago.
21:44:47 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:44:54 [sbp]
heh, that is a rather obvious set of keywords to find me
21:44:59 [AaronSw]
D::The introduction mentions the delay but doesn't explain it.
21:45:00 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:45:01 [AaronSw]
heh, no kidding.
21:45:18 [sbp]
add "Simpsons", and you're there
21:45:31 [AaronSw]
Google: "Did you mean: swhack html neonism sean palmer infomesh rdfig mysterylights swad repurpose philosophical"
21:45:40 [sbp]
heh, heh
21:45:52 [sbp]
.google html swhack chicagoforce changedpage logicerror rdfweb df4b blogspace d13f aaronsw
21:45:54 [xena]
html swhack chicagoforce changedpage logicerror rdfweb df4b blogspace d13f aaronsw: http://www.aaronsw.com
21:46:01 [AaronSw]
df4b?
21:46:16 [sbp]
in your key
21:46:19 [AaronSw]
aha
21:46:25 [sbp]
(key fingerprint, rather)
21:47:39 [sbp]
Hmm... now, those phrases may oneday return the #swhack archives instead :-)
21:47:45 [AaronSw]
heh
21:48:12 [sbp]
through the Plex, of course
21:48:28 [AaronSw]
D::Overall it's a really nice book. Liberarianism, crypto anarchy, virtual worlds and AI all mixed in for good effect. Some of the essays tend to repeat earlier ones, but overall they're very interesting.
21:48:31 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:48:43 [AaronSw]
D::And of course "True Names" itself is an incredible story.
21:48:45 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:49:23 [AaronSw]
note to self: make key plexnames database map 'tav' to http://www.tav-alto-vuoto.it/
21:49:35 [sbp]
lol
21:49:42 [sbp]
What does "tav" actually stand for?
21:49:58 [AaronSw]
I don't think it stands for anything.
21:49:59 [sbp]
.google tav
21:50:02 [xena]
tav: http://www.tav.it
21:50:35 [sbp]
Liberarianism?
21:50:54 [sbp]
I misread that the first time around :-)
21:51:06 [AaronSw]
Librarianism
21:51:14 [sbp]
exactly
21:52:19 [sbp]
Peanuts (on snoopy.com) is featuring a nice little sub-thread about Peppermint Patty having to wear a dress to school because they made her
21:52:24 [AaronSw]
interesting: http://www.sciam.com/2002/0202issue/0202patents.html
21:52:30 [AaronSw]
link?
21:52:42 [sbp]
http://snoopy.com/
21:52:45 [sbp]
:-)
21:53:00 [sbp]
Go to the archives, it's been running for about the last five days
21:54:05 [sbp]
cool patents
21:54:50 [sbp]
I should patent "Heh, heh, heh" as a method of emoting hillarity over the IRC protocol
21:55:11 [sbp]
Gotta run
21:58:54 [AaronSw]
c'ya
22:15:54 [sbp]
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22:25:03 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m587-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
22:25:17 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reads up on Private Credentials
22:31:38 [sbp]
what does def __str__ do?
22:31:51 [AaronSw]
I think it defines the result of str(object)
22:32:58 [sbp]
thanks
22:34:57 [AaronSw]
what's <strong>Z</strong><sub>q</sub> mean?
22:35:12 [AaronSw]
<strong>Z</strong> being the set of integers.
22:37:36 [AaronSw]
If I write a crypto paper, it will star Alan and Barbara as "Alice and Bob have raised their prices after their incredible success among the crypto community."
22:37:58 [sbp]
:-)
22:38:06 [sbp]
* sbp is trying to find out what Zvq means
22:39:08 [sbp]
it might be the qth member
22:39:33 [sbp]
in fact, it almost certainly is
22:39:35 [AaronSw]
hmm, that'd make it an integer, so why not just say q?
22:40:09 [AaronSw]
it says: "Alice generates a [funny symbol a] at random from Z<sub>q</> during the issuing protocol."
22:40:13 [sbp]
because Zq makes it explicitly an integer that is in Z
22:40:21 [AaronSw]
Z is the set of integers!
22:40:24 [sbp]
oh, heh
22:41:24 [AaronSw]
maybe it's a prime group or something
22:41:26 [sbp]
"""For example, considering the universe of objects, U, one can define a set as a collection of elements that satisfy some property P(x). """ - http://www.neuronet.pitt.edu/~bogdan/research/fuzzy/f/section3_2.html
22:41:38 [sbp]
argh, that didn't come out well
22:42:00 [sbp]
set Sp elements x E U
22:42:19 [AaronSw]
ah
22:44:12 [sbp]
is Q(x) defined?
22:45:07 [AaronSw]
no
22:45:26 [AaronSw]
q is a prime order
22:45:33 [AaronSw]
so it must mean integers in that prime order.
22:45:49 [sbp]
there you go, then
22:45:54 [AaronSw]
thanks
22:46:07 [sbp]
* sbp didn't do anything
22:48:42 [AaronSw]
oh, this is pretty cool.
22:50:53 [sbp]
do tell
22:54:16 [AaronSw]
so like you take all the information about you and throw them together with a random number to make your secret.
22:54:45 [AaronSw]
then you go to your friendly verifier-guy, and he says, yep that's all true and generates a public key for you and signs it.
22:55:09 [sbp]
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sbp (~sean@m79-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
22:55:53 [AaronSw]
so then you go to the bar and the bartender gives you a large random number.
22:56:06 [AaronSw]
you sign it, and tell him your age and your public key.
22:56:17 [AaronSw]
he verifies this and gives you a drink
22:57:19 [sbp]
And that's better than conventional verification *why*?
22:57:33 [AaronSw]
because the bartender never knows who you are!
22:57:54 [sbp]
er...
22:57:55 [AaronSw]
your data could have millions of bits in it: name, phone number, country of residence, dog's last name, but the bartender can't find out any of it
22:58:26 [sbp]
I fail to see how that's an advantage - you could have an identity card stamped by some authority, with your picture on it
22:58:35 [sbp]
lol @ dog's last name
22:58:38 [AaronSw]
plus [handwaving] the verifier guy generates the public key and signs it without knowing how it's signed
22:58:39 [lethedrinker]
how does he verify your age.
22:58:47 [AaronSw]
err what the signed version looks like
22:58:55 [AaronSw]
handwaving cuz i'm not at that section yet
22:59:11 [lethedrinker]
* lethedrinker waves to all
22:59:17 [sbp]
Hi
22:59:24 [AaronSw]
sbp, ok, imagine you're voting in an election instead of getting a beer.
22:59:33 [AaronSw]
over the internet
22:59:38 [sbp]
Ah, O.K.
22:59:43 [sbp]
cool
23:00:11 [AaronSw]
no one can vote twice, but who you voted for remains a secret to all
23:00:12 [sbp]
heh, if I took all of your wacky schemes at face value, it'd take all the fun out of it, now, wouldn't it?
23:01:06 [AaronSw]
this has got to be the biggest privacy-preserving technology ever, imo
23:03:00 [sbp]
c947b8ee5ce039ecdaca59d1a0052b04d7b5c4e6a00d7800f294798d934a1ad5
23:03:00 [sbp]
7e717192f41feefa404f1261b7d2dee3178cd915bb66417492f5284bfcd4961e
23:03:08 [sbp]
oops, where did that come from?
23:03:10 [sbp]
:-)
23:03:14 [AaronSw]
safety in numbers: large prime numbers
23:03:25 [AaronSw]
s/:/ --/
23:33:13 [sbp]
s/ --/ -/
23:44:03 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker has left #swhack