IRC log of swhack on 2001-10-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:08:07 [logster]

logster has joined #swhack

00:08:07 [forward.openprojects.net]

Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav deltab

00:29:45 [AaronSw]

Grr, why isn't google indexing the swhack logs?

00:29:58 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw resubmits.

00:36:25 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

00:36:28 [AaronSw]

Hi sean.

00:36:35 [AaronSw]

Nice letter to the Patent Policy comments.

00:36:47 [sbp]

Hi there, Aaron "Funk Maestro of the Mid-West" Swartz

00:36:51 [sbp]

thanks

00:36:56 [sbp]

I liked it too :-)

00:37:04 [AaronSw]

heh: Funk Maestro of the Mid-West?

00:37:15 [sbp]

I've been saving that for days now

00:37:24 [sbp]

(the "Funk Maestro" quip)

00:37:39 [AaronSw]

Where

00:37:43 [AaronSw]

Where'd that come from?

00:38:13 [sbp]

I just thought of it during The Simpsons for some reason; perhaps it was related to something in the episode?

00:38:47 [AaronSw]

Heh:

00:38:57 [AaronSw]

> But when corporations own all of the avenues of free speech

00:38:57 [AaronSw]

Do you expect to be leasing your tongue some time soon?

00:39:12 [sbp]

heh; where's that from?

00:39:15 [sbp]

Anyway, I've been busy: http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swipt/

00:39:21 [AaronSw]

cite: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5906

00:40:02 [AaronSw]

Ooh, a query engine?

00:40:09 [sbp]

Hmm... "Ammendment" :-)

00:40:19 [sbp]

Not only that, but a *working* quesry engine :-)

00:40:34 [sbp]

and a query engine, too

00:41:01 [AaronSw]

Oooh.

00:41:18 [sbp]

python query.py earl.n3 earlq.n3 > out.n3

00:41:34 [AaronSw]

CooL!

00:42:08 [sbp]

I've no idea how it works. Spent all day writing it

00:42:52 [AaronSw]

You have no idea how it works...hmm.

00:43:09 [sbp]

When I was debugging it, I set something wrong, and it gave me an 8MB+ output file!

00:43:18 [AaronSw]

lol

00:43:24 [AaronSw]

Query engines are hard to control.

00:43:28 [sbp]

I have a vague idea how it works :-) I was just joking at the oddness of the thing

00:43:41 [AaronSw]

Heheheh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2001101218506.gif

00:43:48 [sbp]

hard to control: yeah, if they go wrong, they go wrong. It only takes one line in the wrong place

00:44:13 [sbp]

heh heh

00:44:29 [AaronSw]

Hmm, 404 at http://www.dpawson.co.uk/WAI/waiframework.html

00:45:03 [AaronSw]

SWIPT: Now you'll just need to modify it to work with my super-cool RDF API.

00:45:03 [deltab]

I think there's a bug in http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swipt/util.txt in the escape function

00:45:18 [deltab]

\ should be replaced first

00:45:32 [sbp]

moved to: http://www.dpawson.co.uk/WAI/WAIFramework.html

00:45:35 [AaronSw]

Heh, yes, escaping bacslash last is really dumb.

00:45:46 [sbp]

super cool API: where, where???

00:46:05 [sbp]

escaping backslash last: actually, I just copied the escaping function from one of your classes

00:46:17 [sbp]

thanks for pointing it out, deltab :-)

00:46:34 [AaronSw]

From deltab's class?

00:46:46 [sbp]

no, you!

00:46:56 [AaronSw]

oops

00:47:09 [sbp]

literal = string.replace(literal, '\\t', '\t')

00:47:09 [sbp]

literal = string.replace(literal, '\\"', '"')

00:47:09 [sbp]

literal = string.replace(literal, '\\n', '\n')

00:47:09 [sbp]

literal = string.replace(literal, '\\r', '\r')

00:47:09 [sbp]

literal = string.replace(literal, '\\\\', '\\')

00:47:14 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I'm not done with the API yet.. should I upload what I have.

00:47:21 [deltab]

sure, what domain name?

00:47:49 [AaronSw]

so it'll send the mail back to my server when it comes back up?

00:47:57 [deltab]

yes

00:47:58 [sbp]

- http://infomesh.net/2001/swipt/swipt.txt 1.6

00:48:00 [AaronSw]

cool

00:48:08 [sbp]

upload: yes please

00:48:26 [sbp]

you might want to consider using ntriples.py in SWIPT: it's really good, IMO

00:48:44 [AaronSw]

deltab:

00:48:44 [AaronSw]

swartzfam.com

00:48:44 [AaronSw]

aaronsw.com

00:48:44 [AaronSw]

theinfo.org

00:48:44 [AaronSw]

blogspace.com

00:48:46 [AaronSw]

logicerror.com

00:50:00 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw uploads...

00:50:49 [AaronSw]

Uploaded: http://blogspace.com/rdf/rdfapi.txt

00:50:54 [deltab]

AaronSw: okay, done

00:51:05 [AaronSw]

thanks! what server do you use?

00:51:22 [AaronSw]

err, what MTA, and what's its address?

00:51:34 [sbp]

cool

00:51:36 [deltab]

209.164.24.133

00:52:52 [deltab]

no

00:53:09 [deltab]

or else :-)

00:53:20 [AaronSw]

heheh

00:53:49 [AaronSw]

What port is SMTP again?

00:54:10 [deltab]

smtp 25/tcp Simple Mail Transfer

00:54:16 [AaronSw]

thanks

00:54:22 [AaronSw]

25... i was close ;)

00:55:06 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I didn't know Qmail could do that. How do you set that up?

00:55:31 [deltab]

put the domain names into /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts

00:55:38 [deltab]

that's it

00:55:53 [AaronSw]

Ah, that makes sense.

00:56:10 [deltab]

of course on the DNS side you still have to set up MX records

00:56:25 [AaronSw]

right... just about to do that.

00:56:37 [AaronSw]

should I set up aliases for them? or do you have those set up already?

00:56:47 [AaronSw]

like mail-bak.swartzfam.com

00:57:05 [deltab]

doesn't matter in the slightest

00:57:42 [AaronSw]

Unless you change the address ;)

00:57:56 [deltab]

that's not going to happen :-)

00:58:28 [AaronSw]

ever? in the history of time?

00:58:44 [AaronSw]

or the future, i suppose

00:58:48 [sbp]

heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20010930.html

00:59:22 [AaronSw]

Many thanks for your help, deltab.

01:01:09 [deltab]

I suggest you put the aliases for your mail servers within the domains they're for, so that your dns server can send authoritive glue

01:01:41 [AaronSw]

Wouldn't that require 10 aliases?

01:02:42 [deltab]

yes - does your editor have search and replace? :-)

01:03:53 [AaronSw]

yeah, but my dns is edited thru a web interface. :(

01:04:05 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries the "Wizard Interface"

01:04:23 [AaronSw]

Oh, for newbies, not wizards

01:04:28 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries the "Advanced Interface"

01:05:00 [sbp]

lol

01:06:13 [deltab]

005308Z <GReaper> anyway, do we need a web dns tool?

01:06:34 [deltab]

AaronSw: I'll take that as a No vote :-)

01:06:55 [AaronSw]

For what purpose would you want one?

01:07:05 [AaronSw]

I wouldn't mind if it just gave me the config file to edit thru a browser

01:07:12 [sbp]

impressing your collegues

01:07:12 [AaronSw]

but it tries to be "helpful", grr.

01:16:50 [AaronSw]

sbp, comments on that rdf API?

01:17:38 [sbp]

I'm not sure what it does yet. Your method of programming is far more advanced than my own

01:17:49 [AaronSw]

Really? What don't you get?

01:18:22 [sbp]

self.neighbors = [MAIN_NODE]

01:18:36 [AaronSw]

Yeah, that didn't quite work out as I wanted.

01:18:50 [AaronSw]

I wanted to have all of them "inherit" from the MAIN_NODE

01:18:57 [AaronSw]

so they'd know basic RDFS triples, etc.

01:19:06 [sbp]

what's the MAIN_NODE?

01:19:22 [AaronSw]

It's a Node with basic properties like

01:19:33 [AaronSw]

self[rdf:type] = rdfs:resource

01:19:43 [sbp]

ah, neat

01:21:17 [AaronSw]

same thing with MAIN_STORE

01:21:26 [AaronSw]

I really need environmental acquisition, I think.

01:21:31 [AaronSw]

which is a Zope thing.

01:21:38 [sbp]

* sbp is lost again

01:21:50 [AaronSw]

yeah, that was to deltab

01:21:54 [AaronSw]

or tav

01:22:06 [sbp]

I can just about handle SWIPT... it works, and that'll do for me :-)

01:22:15 [AaronSw]

The basic idea is to merge two nodes, you create a new node with the original two as neighbors

01:22:23 [AaronSw]

and if you want to unmerge them... just do the opposite

01:22:45 [sbp]

please, please, document this!

01:23:00 [AaronSw]

yeah, i need to get a chance to work on it!

01:23:03 [AaronSw]

so much to do...

01:23:18 [AaronSw]

ask more questions so i know what to document

01:23:39 [sbp]

what does __getitem__ do?

01:23:41 [deltab]

is that like unification in prolog?

01:24:00 [AaronSw]

unification? dunno... what's it do?

01:24:01 [deltab]

sbp: the [ ] operator

01:24:16 [deltab]

shucks, I was hoping you could tell me

01:24:23 [AaronSw]

yeah, __getitem__ replaces the [ ] operator, along with __setitem__

01:24:34 [AaronSw]

well, not replaces... more like drives

01:24:46 [deltab]

ah, there's an entry in foldoc

01:25:15 [sbp]

will it be able to take on varied internal RDF store structures: pents, quads, all of different forms?

01:26:09 [AaronSw]

no, just the ideal structure ;)

01:26:18 [AaronSw]

actually, I guess you could swap in a different store

01:26:20 [sbp]

which is?

01:26:43 [AaronSw]

well, we're still arguing about it I think... but I like quads with stIDs

01:27:44 [sbp]

I like quads with contexts. 'tis what I use in SWIPT now

01:28:52 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

01:28:57 [sbp]

Seth uses pents with contexts (well, he calls them StIDs I think, but they're contexts... I get muddled up with the terminology), and seqs

01:29:17 [AaronSw]

Yeah, the seqs are weird.

01:29:35 [sbp]

yeah; but it's for doing easy DAML lists, I guess

01:31:07 [AaronSw]

So you disagree with my thoughts on contexts?

01:33:29 [sbp]

what are your thoughts on contexts? That they should be resigned to the model? Yes, I do. A context is scope for the quantification of variables, so it's useful to have it as a first class object

01:34:30 [AaronSw]

They are... they're just not in the model ;)

01:34:35 [AaronSw]

So should quantifiers be in the model too then?

01:34:41 [sbp]

aha: http://robustai.net/mentography/SemStructure.gif

01:35:04 [sbp]

quantifiers in the model: what do you mean?

01:35:33 [AaronSw]

_:x vs. {} forSome :x .

01:36:45 [sbp]

well, it's there anyway! having _:x is alright, and so is ?x

01:37:19 [sbp]

but there's probably no harm in using both. People can still do it anyway; modelling triples in RDF using weird methods

01:37:21 [AaronSw]

But which way should it be represented internally?

01:37:49 [AaronSw]

Node = ('fooooo', ExistentialNode, context)

01:37:59 [sbp]

I use [x, ANON] or [x, VAR]

01:38:16 [AaronSw]

hwo do you deal with quantification?

01:39:10 [sbp]

whaddya mean?

01:40:32 [AaronSw]

Like, how do you know what x is quantiified over? what context?

01:43:04 [sbp]

*the* context. (P, S, O, C)

01:43:35 [AaronSw]

hmm

01:43:39 [AaronSw]

Am i still on?

01:43:59 [sbp]

wow: http://robustai.net/mentography/quads.gif

01:44:50 [sbp]

still on what?

01:45:13 [AaronSw]

here... messing with net connection

01:45:37 [sbp]

ah, yes you are

01:46:15 [sbp]

ah, now Seth may have already solved our dispute

01:46:15 [sbp]

http://robustai.net/mentography/pentuples.gif

01:47:24 [sbp]

he proved quite convincingly to me once that his notion of "StID" covers both your statementID and my contextID things

01:48:49 [sbp]

Hmm... how does one say that something belongs to two contexts?

01:48:57 [sbp]

just repeat it?

01:49:02 [AaronSw]

Can it?

01:49:11 [sbp]

Seth seems to imply so: http://robustai.net/mentography/contexts.gif

01:49:50 [sbp]

heh, Seth and his ways: http://robustai.net/mentography/higherOrder.gif

01:50:11 [AaronSw]

So how does the stID work for contexts?

01:50:54 [sbp]

it works as a context flag: exactly the same

01:51:09 [sbp]

if two triples have the same StID, they are in the same context

01:51:11 [sbp]

http://robustai.net/mentography/reification.gif

01:51:16 [AaronSw]

eek, but you need stIDs!

01:51:49 [sbp]

yeah, I don't get it either

01:52:01 [sbp]

but Seth worked on this for months. PErhaps we should ask him

01:53:23 [AaronSw]

hmm, ok

01:53:50 [sbp]

I'd have been happy with triples :-)

01:54:55 [AaronSw]

heh

01:56:53 [AaronSw]

So should I write this up in an email or somehting?

01:57:03 [sbp]

please do

01:57:21 [AaronSw]

And send it to where? sem-dev?

01:57:33 [sbp]

yeah, that'll do

01:59:08 [AaronSw]

Hmm...

01:59:16 [AaronSw]

I guess having both can't be too bad.

01:59:22 [AaronSw]

And it'd make us compatible.

02:00:06 [sbp]

there's no way that SWIPT would be compatable with your master RDF API, 'cause I'm a crap programmer. Just do what you think is best

02:00:27 [AaronSw]

Heh.

02:01:40 [sbp]

Gotta run

02:01:42 [sbp]

sbp has quit

02:08:52 [AaronSw]

Self-updating software has to be a tech-support nightmare.

02:13:43 [AaronSw]

That danja... I'm now reading "Ode on a Grecian Urn" as "Ode on a Grecian URN"!

02:29:06 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after some splitting. Please bear with us.

02:31:09 [ChanServ]

ChanServ has changed the topic to:

02:31:17 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Done. Thanks for your patience.

02:31:58 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: Keats: "Ode to a Grecian URN"

02:32:18 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: How do I "do the triple"? Do the triple! Do do do do do do do do do, do do do do do do ...

02:44:37 [AaronSw]

What in the world is Banzai, deltab?

02:44:57 [deltab]

a crazy, crazy show

02:46:26 [AaronSw]

Lol... "Strapped for cash they decided there was only one option left for them.... To sell the Banzai format to a UK TV producer."

02:50:53 [AaronSw]

Nope, we don't get Banzai here.

13:31:29 [sbp]

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13:31:49 [sbp]

Heh: Do the triple!

13:43:47 [sbp]

sbp has quit

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13:56:35 [sbp]

sbp has quit

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14:29:54 [sbp]

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14:46:40 [AaronSw]

la la la la la la la la la la la

15:12:42 [AaronSw]

Arjun Ray, commenting on the RDF MT: "Is this list the official place to be ignored?"

15:14:10 [AaronSw]

Also: """I would claim, on the basis of my "gestalt" of RDF, that a ntriple should be a node itself. The "basic" RDF graph representation would have four nodes, for the triple and its three terms; the arcs would be labelled by "subject", "verb" and "object" - or their equivalents du jour; anonymous nodes would just be missing outbound subject arcs;

15:14:13 [AaronSw]

nodes with only inbound arcs would be the natural places to locate all atomic/primitive terms (literals, urirefs, symbols, whatever); and "reification" would seem to be unnecessary. What this means for Model Theory I haven't the faintest idea."""

15:14:23 [AaronSw]

He's got the right idea there, for sure!

15:39:55 [AaronSw]

Hmm, My TiBook did that "gone silent" thing again -- for some reason "esd -nobeeps" was running. Killed it and it started working again.

15:40:07 [AaronSw]

Or maybe it was just because I restarted QuickTime Player.

15:40:24 [AaronSw]

It was quite weird because if you got it to system beep, you could here the audio playing behind it.

15:44:03 [AaronSw]

"Queen says no to pot smoking FBI movement"?

15:44:51 [AaronSw]

sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy!

16:26:21 [sbp]

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16:26:28 [AaronSw]

'lo

16:26:49 [sbp]

'i

16:27:08 [sbp]

I just BCC'd you a message...

16:27:29 [sbp]

but it didn't get to you: error

16:27:39 [sbp]

[[[

16:27:40 [sbp]

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mewtwo.esp-worldwide.com.

16:27:40 [sbp]

I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.

16:27:40 [sbp]

This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

16:27:40 [sbp]

<aswartz@swartzfam.com>:

16:27:40 [sbp]

Sorry. Although I'm listed as a best-preference MX or A for that host,

16:27:42 [sbp]

it isn't in my control/locals file, so I don't treat it as local. (#5.4.6)

16:27:44 [sbp]

]]]

16:27:55 [AaronSw]

what the? shoooot

16:28:30 [deltab]

hmm

16:28:53 [AaronSw]

odd, it seems to get thru when i do it.

16:30:14 [AaronSw]

hmm, perhaps not

16:30:30 [sbp]

that's funny, I just got another one, same error, but with a weird message body

16:30:38 [AaronSw]

Yeah, that was me.

16:30:42 [sbp]

blargh

16:30:53 [AaronSw]

Wgt does it think it's a best preference MX?

16:30:58 [AaronSw]

;; ANSWER SECTION:

16:30:58 [AaronSw]

swartzfam.com. 8h33m9s IN MX 10 mail.swartzfam.com.

16:30:58 [AaronSw]

swartzfam.com. 8h33m9s IN MX 5 mail-bak.swartzfam.com.

16:31:09 [deltab]

because it is

16:31:12 [AaronSw]

because it's got dns @swartzfam?

16:31:22 [deltab]

5 outranks 10

16:31:32 [AaronSw]

oh, you serious? ooops

16:31:56 [AaronSw]

why doesn't it do that for other domains, tho?

16:38:29 [sbp]

I wonder why swintro isn't on Google anymore? It was, briefly

16:38:43 [AaronSw]

google's acting funny these days

16:38:52 [sbp]

yeah, sure is

16:38:58 [AaronSw]

Sean, did you get another bounce?

16:39:16 [sbp]

* sbp checks

16:39:24 [sbp]

yes

16:39:49 [AaronSw]

hmmph -- mu2.espnow.com needs to recheck its MX records.

16:41:27 [sbp]

Hmm... dinner's nearly ready

16:41:33 [sbp]

Gotta run

16:41:35 [sbp]

sbp has quit

16:48:03 [AaronSw]

deltab, wanna do me a favor and set up something in smtproutes to stop this?

16:49:33 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw thinks Ian should set up a public w3c-sucks mailing list ;-)

16:51:26 [AaronSw]

I'm losing a lot of mail :-(

16:53:59 [AaronSw]

Shoooot, we're bombing!

16:54:10 [AaronSw]

Bush: "time is running out"

16:54:12 [AaronSw]

For what?

17:12:40 [AaronSw]

logster, grep 100 WFM

17:12:46 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 33 answers for 'WFM'

17:12:47 [logster]

0) 2001-10-07 17:12:40 <AaronSw> logster, grep 100 WFM

17:12:48 [logster]

1) 2001-10-01 07:36:10 <sbp> WFM, it's 8:37AM. AM!

17:12:49 [logster]

2) 2001-09-26 19:55:54 <sbp> WFM, it connected on the first attempt

17:12:50 [logster]

3) 2001-09-21 02:15:27 <sbp> WFM

17:12:51 [logster]

4) 2001-09-21 01:43:50 <sbp> WFM, no results!

17:12:52 [logster]

5) 2001-09-21 01:43:11 <sbp> neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en

17:12:53 [logster]

6) 2001-09-21 01:08:02 <sbp> "00:43:23 <sbp> * sbp coins WFM" - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-21.txt

17:12:54 [logster]

7) 2001-09-21 01:02:51 <AaronSw> Sean, did you submit WFM to acronymfinder?

17:12:55 [logster]

8) 2001-09-21 00:56:00 <sbp> WFM

17:12:56 [logster]

9) 2001-09-21 00:53:35 <sbp> * sbp wonders about http://www.acronymfinder.com/add.asp?acronym=WFM

17:12:57 [logster]

10) 2001-09-21 00:47:17 <sbp> <chillywilly> WFM?

17:12:58 [logster]

11) 2001-09-21 00:46:42 <sbp> <sbp> WFM, this is getting to be a weird conversation

17:12:59 [logster]

12) 2001-09-21 00:45:59 <sbp> I'm always frightened of saying WFM, because of the responses it gets, but now... aha!

17:13:00 [logster]

13) 2001-09-21 00:44:33 <sbp> WFM, why can't tav guess what "WFM" stand for?

17:13:01 [logster]

14) 2001-09-21 00:44:10 <sbp> WFM, Aaron did become the W3C director

17:13:02 [logster]

15) 2001-09-21 00:43:59 <sbp> WFM, she's sexy

17:13:03 [logster]

16) 2001-09-21 00:43:49 <sbp> WFM, another new acronym!

17:13:04 [logster]

17) 2001-09-21 00:43:23 <sbp> * sbp coins WFM

17:13:05 [logster]

18) 2001-09-21 02:15:27 <sbp> WFM

17:13:06 [logster]

19) 2001-09-21 01:43:50 <sbp> WFM, no results!

17:13:07 [logster]

20) 2001-09-21 01:43:11 <sbp> neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en

17:58:07 [AaronSw]

The truth behind our new war, from Tony Blair:

17:58:08 [AaronSw]

<CC> WE ACT ALSO BECAUSE THE AL

17:58:09 [AaronSw]

<CC> QAEDA NETWORK AND THE

17:58:09 [AaronSw]

<CC> TALIBAN REGIME ARE FUNDED IN

17:58:09 [AaronSw]

<CC> LARGE PART ON THE DRUGS

17:58:09 [AaronSw]

<CC> TRADE, 90% OF ALL THE HEROIN

17:58:10 [AaronSw]

<CC> SOLD ON BRITISH STREETS

17:58:12 [AaronSw]

<CC> ORIGINATES FROM AFGHANISTAN.

17:58:14 [AaronSw]

<CC> STOPPING THAT TRADE IS,

17:58:16 [AaronSw]

<CC> AGAIN, DIRECTLY IN OUR

17:58:18 [AaronSw]

<CC> INTERESTS.

17:59:11 [AaronSw]

Toscanini's Website: DANGER! ICE CREAM IS DELICIOUS!

17:59:36 [AaronSw]

- http://www.tosci.com/

18:00:28 [tav]

tav has quit

18:05:54 [tav]

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18:51:51 [AaronSw]

Alcohol advertising returns to US TV [http://media.guardian.co.uk/advertising/story/0,7492,563918,00.html]

19:06:18 [AaronSw]

... Catching up on news. From 9/18:

19:06:29 [AaronSw]

"ABC News has decided it has aired enough replays of last week's catastrophic terrorist attack on New York's World Trade Center." - Good for them!

19:33:12 [sbp]

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19:40:24 [sbp]

sbp has quit

19:47:38 [AaronSw]

whoops. missed sbp

19:47:51 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza: We're in!

20:51:10 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza: TiVo gets it's data thru HTTP GET from the TiVo server!

20:56:02 [AaronSw]

form encoding sves the day again!

20:58:54 [sbp]

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20:59:05 [AaronSw]

whoo, this is awesome!

20:59:08 [AaronSw]

Hi sbp!

21:00:10 [sbp]

Oh man, what now... :-)

21:00:15 [sbp]

Hi Aaron. TiVo?

21:00:22 [AaronSw]

Yup.

21:00:43 [AaronSw]

It's as if I designed it -- they really did things Right.

21:00:50 [sbp]

lol!!!

21:01:34 [AaronSw]

HTTP GET, POST with x-www-form-urlencoded

21:01:34 [AaronSw]

Object-Oriented Tcl to manage it all

21:01:34 [AaronSw]

And of course the bash shell.

21:01:40 [AaronSw]

I need to meet the guy who engineered this!

21:01:43 [AaronSw]

:-)

21:03:05 [sbp]

* sbp has just been carefully reading the #swhack logs

21:03:29 [sbp]

WFM, what was all the acroynm stuff about?

21:04:37 [AaronSw]

heh... logger didn't do exactly what I expected

21:04:37 [AaronSw]

I was trying to show deltab what WFM meant

21:05:31 [sbp]

ah

21:05:46 [sbp]

what were those cool words that we coined?

21:05:52 [AaronSw]

When?

21:06:09 [sbp]

logster, grep phenomic

21:06:26 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 8 answers for 'phenomic' (showing 0...4)

21:06:27 [logster]

0) 2001-10-07 21:06:09 <sbp> logster, grep phenomic

21:06:28 [logster]

1) 2001-10-05 01:41:42 <AaronSw> Chas Munat pointed me to a seemingly phenomic page: http://karljahn.tripod.com/lang/words.htm

21:06:29 [logster]

2) 2001-09-30 14:07:19 <AaronSw> Why not? It's phenomic.

21:06:30 [logster]

3) 2001-09-24 02:25:17 <AaronSw> phenomic, phenomic, phenomic

21:06:31 [logster]

4) 2001-09-24 02:25:12 <AaronSw> phenomic

21:06:31 [sbp]

logseter, hello?

21:06:31 [sbp]

er...

21:06:43 [sbp]

between here and the validator (thanks for activating logger...)

21:06:58 [AaronSw]

there's a logger in the validator?

21:07:00 [tav`]

tav` has joined #swhack

21:07:15 [sbp]

ah, exispeciferous

21:07:21 [sbp]

http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-24.txt

21:07:35 [AaronSw]

what's this about between here and the validator?

21:07:38 [sbp]

no, no logger in there. I mean, we came up with them in this and that room

21:07:45 [AaronSw]

ahh

21:07:59 [AaronSw]

Brother got big new turntable and stero system today, he went out to the local "mammoth music fest" which happens to be on this week -- so i've been inundated with blasting Beatles songs ;)

21:08:10 [sbp]

great!

21:08:51 [AaronSw]

s/today/a couple of days ago/

21:09:20 [sbp]

I've been playing "Love And Theft" again and again... so many times!

21:09:39 [AaronSw]

heh.

21:09:50 [sbp]

* sbp puts it on again

21:10:10 [AaronSw]

So what do you think of the news?

21:10:37 [sbp]

er... the bombing?

21:10:40 [AaronSw]

yeah

21:10:56 [sbp]

interesting Pentagon conference by Donald Rumsfield

21:11:43 [sbp]

On the one hand he was really specific, and was nearly letting things slip about ground forces, and on the other hand he was like, "I'm not answering that, next question please"

21:12:02 [AaronSw]

Heh, it was definitely interesting.

21:12:25 [sbp]

And then you had that other guy chatting about the ration drops. Weird conference

21:14:58 [AaronSw]

Yeah:

21:15:04 [AaronSw]

"""The yellow plastic packets have a picture of a smiling person

21:15:05 [AaronSw]

eating from a pouch, a stencil of an American flag and the greeting

21:15:05 [AaronSw]

in English, ``This food is a gift from the United States of

21:15:05 [AaronSw]

America.'' The United States has a stockpile of about 2 million of

21:15:05 [AaronSw]

the pouches, Quigley said."""

21:15:39 [AaronSw]

We should send those out more often.

21:15:56 [sbp]

an English greeting? That's going to fox them: they're being sent by America

21:16:12 [AaronSw]

Heh.

21:16:34 [sbp]

what's in the packets, d'ya reckon?

21:16:50 [AaronSw]

Rice says the news website.

21:17:01 [AaronSw]

"""The food, wrapped so that one packet has enough for one person

21:17:01 [AaronSw]

for one day, is rice-based and does not contain any animal products

21:17:01 [AaronSw]

so as not to violate any religious or cultural practices. Muslims,

21:17:02 [AaronSw]

for example, do not eat pork."""

21:18:07 [sbp]

Hmm...

21:18:13 [AaronSw]

"""By the grace of God, Mullah Omar and bin Laden are alive,'' Ambassador Abdul Salam Zaeef [Taliban's ambassador to Pakistan] told reporters. There was no way to confirm his statement."""

21:18:28 [AaronSw]

All this from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/

21:19:08 [AaronSw]

That movie from Bin Laden was weird... looked like he filmed it with iMovie 2 or something.

21:24:57 [sbp]

Yeah, it was rather odd

21:24:59 [sbp]

Cool: http://www.republika.pl/bobdylan/lat/GB.htm

21:27:09 [AaronSw]

Neat. It was cool seeing him on the Oscars

21:27:37 [sbp]

Gotta run

21:27:39 [sbp]

sbp has quit

21:32:57 [cdlu]

[GlobalNotice] We're sorry yet again but services should be up after a brief netsplit. Have a nice day.

21:33:11 [AaronSw]

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21:41:26 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has quit

21:41:31 [ChanServ]

ChanServ has changed the topic to:

21:41:49 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has joined #swhack

21:46:45 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza!

22:06:54 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

22:09:29 [AaronSw]

wb

22:09:43 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw plays some more Bob Dylan

22:11:02 [sbp]

cool. I'm just reading some more interviews

22:11:29 [sbp]

I really like the new album... it has a weird sense of the past in it. A kind of music that I've been looking for for a while; or one aspect of it, at least

22:12:48 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I thought the stuff you pointed me to was old Dylan, but it gives it a different spin to discover it's quite new.

22:14:51 [sbp]

Some of it's old, some of it's new. I gave you a mix. A beginners mix

22:15:08 [sbp]

it's better to pick up an album and work through it...

22:15:17 [AaronSw]

Yeah.

22:15:30 [sbp]

I don't often think "oh, I'll put on such and such a Dylan song"; I'm usually thinking in terms of albums or periods

22:15:51 [AaronSw]

Interesting, I'm so disassociated here with my MP3s. ;-)

22:16:05 [sbp]

:-)

22:16:18 [AaronSw]

Hmm. PMNL is very much like tav's Plexnames idea... it's good to rediscover all this stuff with a new spin because of background.

22:16:24 [AaronSw]

Human types:Did you get that letter from <pn>HoneyBunny</pn>?

22:16:24 [AaronSw]

Machine sends:Did you get that letter from <key>cap://...</key>?

22:16:30 [AaronSw]

Machine receives:Did you get that letter from <key>cap://...</key>?

22:16:31 [AaronSw]

Human reads:Did you get that letter from <pn>Ms. Jones</pn>?

22:16:51 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw listens to Aqua for the first time.

22:17:07 [sbp]

resist the temptation!

22:17:26 [AaronSw]

Why?

22:18:01 [sbp]

* sbp won't even bother to rate the music

22:18:07 [AaronSw]

lol

22:18:29 [AaronSw]

I was worried to see that it was listed next to Britney Spears, but tav likes it.

22:20:08 [sbp]

Hmm...

22:22:15 [AaronSw]

"The apostrophe-s trick for naming paths is taken from Smalltalk-72."

22:22:37 [AaronSw]

Hmm: query's Query's dothetriple

22:24:11 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw retreats back to the Beatles

22:24:23 [sbp]

what album?

22:24:37 [AaronSw]

"You Know My Name"

22:25:16 [sbp]

Look up the number...

22:26:13 [AaronSw]

I think they got the single today... it should be around here somewhere...

22:30:24 [tav`]

tav` has quit

22:30:38 [tav]

tav has quit

22:31:37 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #swhack

22:31:53 [SeanP]

that imposter!

22:32:03 [sbp]

sbp has quit

22:32:08 [SeanP]

SeanP is now known as sbp

22:32:39 [sbp]

* sbp has written a couple of fairly good songs recently

22:32:49 [AaronSw]

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22:32:50 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has joined #swhack

22:33:12 [sbp]

Cuckoos In May, Mr. Brady's Envelope

22:33:27 [AaronSw]

Really? You should record them and stick them up on the 'Net.

22:33:33 [sbp]

dang microphone's broken

22:33:46 [AaronSw]

shoot.

22:33:54 [sbp]

they're not of the quality of Alexandr'a Views, but they're good all the same

22:33:58 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw flips the record over to the "Let it Be" side.

22:34:00 [sbp]

(IMO)

22:34:40 [AaronSw]

Are any of these vancable?

22:34:44 [sbp]

No

22:34:53 [sbp]

Purposefully

22:35:29 [sbp]

I don't really care what other people thing of them, as much as I'd want them to believe I do

22:35:34 [sbp]

s/thing/think

22:36:33 [sbp]

of course, I still played them to people, and I really wanted to know what they thought... but you know

22:37:07 [AaronSw]

Yeah.

22:37:33 [sbp]

there aren't many people whose musical opinions I really "trust", 'cause music is mainly a personal thing. Not always, but usually - and sometimes you can connect to people on it, and sometimes you can't

22:37:45 [AaronSw]

I've always found people thoughts on releasing code, writing, etc. interesting.

22:38:00 [sbp]

it's all part of the same thing

22:38:07 [AaronSw]

Indeed.

22:38:10 [AaronSw]

You need a musical collaborative filtering thingy. ;-)

22:38:21 [sbp]

yeah

22:38:37 [sbp]

perhaps I will put something onto the Web... lemme find something

22:39:11 [AaronSw]

I pour out a bit of my soul, and for what? So other people can criticize it.

22:39:44 [sbp]

Heh!

22:39:51 [sbp]

Yes, oh yes...

22:40:27 [sbp]

I play something, and people will be like "it's alright. What do you think of the new Travis album?"

22:42:38 [AaronSw]

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22:43:02 [sbp]

wb

22:43:23 [AaronSw]

i have way too much stuff to do :(

22:43:25 [AaronSw]

Wonder why I was disconnected :(

22:43:35 [AaronSw]

thanks

22:43:44 [sbp]

* sbp decides to put a chords only version of Daydreams up

22:43:45 [AaronSw]

"I play something, and people will be like "it's alright. What do you think of the new Travis album?""

22:43:49 [AaronSw]

Heh.

22:44:18 [sbp]

:-)

22:44:30 [AaronSw]

heh.

22:44:42 [sbp]

Daydreams: it's a much-shortened version, has no lead guitar bit, and has half a minute of tuning at the end

22:45:32 [sbp]

* sbp uploads

22:45:37 [sbp]

it's about 1MB

22:46:19 [AaronSw]

cool

22:48:09 [AaronSw]

Ritchie: that's one of the people I need to meet in this lifetime.

22:48:42 [AaronSw]

Dennis Ritchie, that is.

22:53:28 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw listens to "Daydreams"

22:53:39 [AaronSw]

Wow, this is really good.

22:53:46 [sbp]

* sbp laughs

22:53:52 [AaronSw]

With a lead guitar and singer on top of it, it could really be something.

22:53:58 [sbp]

"what do you think of the new Travis album?"

22:54:06 [AaronSw]

heheh.

22:54:10 [AaronSw]

No, seriously.

22:54:26 [sbp]

well, it normally does have a lead guitar... dunno about a singer. It's not really ever had any proper lyrics

22:54:42 [sbp]

I love the lead guitar part... you've got the naked version there

22:54:54 [AaronSw]

Yeah, I can almost feel the lead guitar.

22:55:20 [AaronSw]

So I'm daaaaaaydreaming...

22:55:44 [sbp]

Hmm... actually, the title has never been a part of the song, and I've never been utterly impressed with the title

22:56:35 [sbp]

it comes from a practice session from Westward Shores; I was meant to play something, but I was looking out the window at the time. My excuse was that I was daydreaming

22:56:45 [AaronSw]

:-)

22:57:12 [sbp]

I guess Westwards Shores was originally called Daydreaming... er... hang on, no it wasn't: it was called Outsider. Terrible title: Westward Shores is much better

22:57:34 [sbp]

* sbp wonders if he has an RA of Westward Shores somewhere

22:57:35 [AaronSw]

I really screwed up a class drama thing once by missing my key line since someone was distracting me.

22:57:51 [sbp]

Heh! What were they doing?

22:58:00 [AaronSw]

It was a skit on the Black Plague.

22:58:08 [AaronSw]

And I was supposed to say "the plague! The plague is coming!"

22:58:27 [AaronSw]

And I didn't, then I remembered that I didn't and I set it at the wrong time, and *really* screwed things up.

22:58:33 [AaronSw]

s/set/said/

22:58:46 [sbp]

classy

22:59:08 [AaronSw]

Well, it's not my fault -- they were trying to serve me cranberry sauce and I was telling them to bugger off.

22:59:22 [AaronSw]

Dennis Ritchie: "The kind of thing that's going on that I think is interesting is in the general category of ubiquitous computing. The specific thing is sort of a set of protocols, a framework for applications that are kind of accessible anywhere. "

22:59:28 [AaronSw]

- http://www.linux-mag.com/cgi-bin/printer.pl?issue=2001-06&article=ritchie

23:00:01 [sbp]

on the only current recording of Daydreams with the lead guitarist present, I totally went into the wrong sequence somewhere... thaty and the microphone buzzing, and the lethargic pace are just small blemishes on a cool recording. Dunno where I put it though...

23:00:08 [sbp]

Ah, the Ritchie guy

23:00:28 [AaronSw]

Heh.

23:01:03 [AaronSw]

Heheh: " [Ken] got enormous amounts of hate mail for being quoted [as saying he didn't think very much of the quality of the Linux kernel code]."

23:01:15 [AaronSw]

That's no way to treat a hero like Ken!

23:01:22 [sbp]

Ken?

23:01:36 [AaronSw]

Ken Thompsan -- Richie's partner.

23:01:42 [AaronSw]

err Thompson.

23:02:15 [AaronSw]

He and Richie cowrote Unix.

23:03:12 [sbp]

Unix?

23:03:36 [AaronSw]

Yeah, that Unix-y thing -- ever heard of it?

23:03:53 [AaronSw]

It's occasionally misspelled as "Linux".

23:03:53 [sbp]

a type of Pizza?

23:04:06 [sbp]

Oh, you mean the album

23:04:15 [sbp]

How can anyone write a Pizza?

23:04:21 [AaronSw]

No, no, the CD.

23:04:54 [sbp]

Corner Dove?

23:05:16 [AaronSw]

I mean OS.

23:05:42 [sbp]

obviously: sure

23:06:22 [sbp]

* sbp goes lyric hunting

23:08:12 [sbp]

neat:-

23:08:14 [sbp]

[[[

23:08:14 [sbp]

3) Daydreams.

23:08:15 [sbp]

Previously called: Seventh Dream, Southern Burlesque (The Casino Song).

23:08:20 [sbp]

]]]

23:08:32 [sbp]

2000-02

23:09:07 [sbp]

Ah, Paper Rain. That's another good song (our bassist's favourite)

23:09:31 [sbp]

Hmm, my lyrics are crud. Really awful sometimes

23:09:48 [AaronSw]

Heh.

23:10:08 [AaronSw]

sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy!

23:10:17 [sbp]

:-)

23:10:28 [sbp]

Ooh, Blue Fields, Harbour Lights...

23:11:41 [sbp]

the titles vaguely reflect the songs. Dunno why I settled on light rock

23:13:10 [AaronSw]

"Light Rock" -- that'd be a good song.

23:13:19 [sbp]

there was another band around called Rubria (or Rubrium). They were really good... not competitors (different venue)

23:13:29 [sbp]

Light Rock: yeah!

23:14:08 [sbp]

They did some really good songs. The heavier bit from "Something Sweet (Sweeter)" is just incredible

23:15:02 [AaronSw]

Cool.

23:15:14 [AaronSw]

I wish I was a musician.

23:15:28 [AaronSw]

I'm going to try and sound out some Beatles songs on my piano -- maybe that'll cheer me up.

23:15:30 [sbp]

Hmm... what other songs did they do... Nellie And The Bees, Queen Of Fire, Amphibian's Love...

23:15:41 [sbp]

Yeah, do Let It Be on the piano

23:15:41 [AaronSw]

They've got good names.

23:16:16 [sbp]

well, I dunno about the names. I've never been fond of song names... to me they're just labels so I don't have to hum the things to get people rexognizing them

23:16:37 [sbp]

to the people behind the Rubria songs... I dunno. I think he thought that they were important; who knows?

23:17:01 [sbp]

Model Aeroplanes was another

23:17:14 [sbp]

ooh, and Creatures is another good one of mine

23:18:14 [sbp]

perhaps you could write lyrics

23:18:34 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

23:18:39 [AaronSw]

I might be good at lyrics.

23:18:54 [AaronSw]

I dunno, lyrics are poetry, really, and I've never figured out how people can judge poetry.

23:19:10 [sbp]

you don't have to judge it, just write it

23:19:33 [AaronSw]

Yeah, I know.

23:19:48 [AaronSw]

But people will say, "He writes really awful poetry" and it seems just fine to me.

23:19:59 [AaronSw]

Of course no one says that about my poetry ;-)

23:20:04 [AaronSw]

Especially when I sing it. ;-)

23:20:27 [sbp]

well, that's the whole folk song thing that I was talking about

23:20:36 [AaronSw]

You were?

23:20:40 [sbp]

yeah

23:21:06 [sbp]

I wrote so many lyrics. I spent days writing lyrics, getting other people to write lyrics

23:21:28 [sbp]

when people asked who I was and what it was I did, I'd say "Sean B. Palmer, lyricist"

23:21:36 [AaronSw]

Heh.

23:21:49 [sbp]

I have piles of notepaper with lyrics and chords on them... piles

23:21:55 [AaronSw]

Hmm, what do you say now?

23:22:05 [AaronSw]

"Sean B. Palmer, Semantic Web Hacker"?

23:22:19 [sbp]

well, if I were writing songs, I'd say, "Sean B. Palmer, songwriter"

23:22:54 [sbp]

but I probably just say, "Sean B. Palmer"

23:23:16 [sbp]

"Sean B. Palmer, professional hobo"

23:23:25 [sbp]

yeah! that's it

23:23:49 [sbp]

you're alright, you don't have to make up titles

23:23:54 [AaronSw]

Heh.

23:23:58 [sbp]

Fuck Maestro of the Mid-West

23:24:07 [sbp]

lol! I meant Funk...

23:24:16 [sbp]

* sbp cracks up laughing

23:24:27 [AaronSw]

LOL!

23:24:44 [AaronSw]

WFM!

23:24:48 [sbp]

perhaps "Fuck" would be more impressive to say in bars

23:25:04 [sbp]

* sbp is glad he didn't jumble up bars

23:25:15 [AaronSw]

Heheh.

23:25:31 [sbp]

anyway, you gonna be writing lyrics, or what?

23:27:10 [AaronSw]

I dunno, I need a song for that.

23:27:23 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw pulls out "She Loves You"

23:27:38 [AaronSw]

Man, I haven't played this for... must be 4 years now.

23:28:03 [sbp]

you still there?

23:28:09 [sbp]

my computer is doing odd things

23:28:25 [AaronSw]

Yep, I'm here.

23:28:31 [sbp]

Hmm...

23:28:49 [sbp]

whenever a computer crashes, mIRC is always the last thing to go. Solid code

23:29:02 [sbp]

I'd better reboot

23:29:13 [AaronSw]

OK, see you soon.

23:32:16 [sbp]

sbp has quit

23:32:20 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #swhack

23:32:36 [SeanP]

SeanP is now known as sbp

23:32:37 [sbp]

sbp has quit

23:32:46 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

23:32:50 [AaronSw]

wb

23:33:06 [sbp]

ty

23:33:11 [sbp]

* sbp continues playing "Love And Theft"

23:33:16 [AaronSw]

np

23:33:19 [AaronSw]

gg - dt

23:33:33 [AaronSw]

dinner time

23:33:38 [sbp]

ah

23:33:41 [sbp]

gb

23:33:44 [AaronSw]

gb?

23:33:50 [sbp]

goodbye

23:33:53 [AaronSw]

cya

23:33:54 [sbp]

c'ya

23:34:00 [sbp]

:-)

23:34:05 [AaronSw]

:-)

23:34:12 [AaronSw]

I'm not too bad at "She Loves You"

23:34:16 [AaronSw]

Even after all these years.

23:34:26 [AaronSw]

ok, c'ya

23:34:32 [sbp]

Cool; a bit of paino playing is good for a person

23:34:33 [sbp]

c'ya

23:34:37 [sbp]

er... piano

23:34:39 [AaronSw]

Indeed

23:34:57 [sbp]

go get dinner!

23:35:03 [AaronSw]

heh, bye

23:35:14 [sbp]

c'ya

23:38:54 [sbp]

sbp has quit

23:58:19 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is back

23:58:59 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

23:59:19 [sbp]

* sbp updates his homepage

23:59:22 [AaronSw]

wb

23:59:26 [AaronSw]

you have impeccable tiing

23:59:27 [sbp]

ty

23:59:29 [AaronSw]

err timing

23:59:31 [sbp]

much cooler: http://purl.org/net/sbp/

23:59:48 [AaronSw]

you should archive your homepage to make that url more persistent

23:59:55 [sbp]

I do archive it