IRC log of swhack on 2002-05-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:01:22 [walloper]

<lilo> hmmm, http://www.redherring.com/insider/2002/0424/2780.html

00:01:57 [walloper]

<lilo> oddly, I think this is kind of interesting

00:02:58 [AaronSw]

<telecon>

00:03:09 [AaronSw]

hm, missed a bit

00:05:09 [AaronSw]

whoa.

00:05:13 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw turns volume way down

00:29:54 [AaronSw]

ooh, an AG feature i've never seen before

00:30:06 [AaronSw]

http://audiogalaxy.com/list/chooseVersion.php?g=177820933&amp;

00:31:00 [sbp]

Hmm... I think I came across that when I very first started using it, and was concerned about bitrates

00:41:25 [jillzilla]

jillzilla (~jill@216-239-45-4.google.com) has joined #swhack

00:42:25 [sbp]

hey there Jill!

00:42:35 [jillzilla]

hi!

00:42:58 [sbp]

have your wrists recovered?

00:43:06 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla laughs.

00:43:25 [sbp]

Hmm... I'll take that as a no :-)

00:43:27 [Morbus]

Morbus (morbus@s92.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

00:43:33 [sbp]

is the new keyboard any better

00:43:34 [sbp]

?

00:43:35 [jillzilla]

no, but I tried a new keyboard that turned out to be worse for the moment tha n my current one. :-)

00:43:39 [sbp]

ugh!

00:43:48 [jillzilla]

I'm back to my normal keyboard.

00:44:13 [jillzilla]

The kinesis warns that it might not beright for people with thumb pain, which is true foir me.

00:44:31 [jillzilla]

Morbus.

00:44:45 [sbp]

heh, and in market-ese, "might not" means "definitely not"

00:44:49 [jillzilla]

and with both the enter key and the space bar under the right thumb...ow.

00:45:01 [Morbus]

jillz. how's life?

00:45:10 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw puts on all the AG music he downloaded

00:45:16 [AaronSw]

Morbus, uploaded those fonts yet?

00:45:16 [jillzilla]

I have arm pain. :-(

00:45:19 [sbp]

* sbp keeps wondering who she's illa than

00:45:29 [Morbus]

AaronSw, i started to last night, and I choked at the 2 meg mark./

00:45:33 [jillzilla]

illa illum illae!

00:45:38 [Morbus]

ia! ia!

00:45:38 [AaronSw]

as in disconnected? ick

00:45:41 [Morbus]

yup.

00:45:46 [Morbus]

i can't upload anything large worth shit.

00:45:49 [Morbus]

it so annoying.

00:45:57 [AaronSw]

how mig are the fonts?

00:45:59 [Morbus]

i'll have to experiment with a.zip, b.zip, etc.

00:46:13 [AaronSw]

wget -c

00:46:21 [AaronSw]

s/mig/big/

00:46:57 [Morbus]

yeah, that's for getting, not sending

00:47:14 [AaronSw]

so? you have an http server, right?

00:47:18 [AaronSw]

wget from the server

00:47:25 [AaronSw]

whoa: http://www.faganfinder.com/google.html

00:47:41 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit (Client Quit)

00:47:51 [sbp]

hey!

00:47:53 [AaronSw]

hm

00:48:11 [Morbus]

Morbus (morbus@63.173.138.122) has joined #swhack

00:48:15 [sbp]

wb

00:48:27 [AaronSw]

what's with the no-rDNS?

00:48:31 [AaronSw]

.dns 63.173.138.122

00:48:32 [xena]

63.173.138.122 - s92.terminal3.totalnetnh.net

00:48:38 [AaronSw]

.dns s92.terminal3.totalnetnh.net

00:48:39 [xena]

s92.terminal3.totalnetnh.net - 63.173.138.122

00:48:42 [AaronSw]

hm

00:48:55 [davb]

davb has quit ("Client Exiting")

00:49:33 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

00:49:35 [Morbus]

what are you talking about?

00:49:41 [AaronSw]

*** Morbus (morbus@63.173.138.122) has joined the channel

00:49:58 [AaronSw]

vs. before: *** Morbus (morbus@s92.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined the channel

00:49:59 [Morbus]

maybe opn's screwed up.

00:50:09 [Morbus]

huh. that's odd.

00:50:44 [Morbus]

* Morbus fiddles with his scrapers.

00:50:48 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: Jill's in pain, Morb's arcane, and Aaron's on a call again

00:52:02 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla admires sbp's rhyme.

00:52:27 [AaronSw]

Sitting on these calls it's very tempting to make master plans

00:52:30 [sbp]

* sbp feels his panic depart

00:52:40 [AaronSw]

panic?

00:52:50 [sbp]

I was like "oh, no! no one's laughing!"

00:53:42 [AaronSw]

it's quite good

00:54:30 [sbp]

well, as long as it's not "aaargh! take it away! take it *away*!" bad...

00:54:48 [jillzilla]

it's lovely.

00:54:56 [jillzilla]

it has excellent rhythm.

00:55:03 [Morbus]

* Morbus strokes sbp's penis.

00:55:07 [Morbus]

ack! ego! i mean ego!

00:55:27 [sbp]

lol!

00:55:35 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla thwaps Morbus on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper.

00:55:49 [Morbus]

* Morbus pisses on jillzilla.

00:55:56 [sbp]

man, I haven't been reminded of that for a while

00:56:00 [Morbus]

:)

00:56:05 [Morbus]

* Morbus ^5's sbp.

00:56:07 [jillzilla]

reminded of a penis?

00:56:22 [AaronSw]

see, if AG used OCN's swarmcast and MB's codes for relatable's fingerprinting, integrated via tristero interfaces using openprivacy reputation...

00:56:38 [sbp]

reminded of the difference in Morbus's mind between my ego and my penis

00:57:38 [rik]

sbp: only one's useful?

00:57:39 [rik]

:)

00:57:45 [rik]

* rik ducks and runs

00:58:38 [sbp]

* sbp feels glad now that he qualified it with "Morbus's mind"

00:58:43 [AaronSw]

i think rik has caught danbri's "duck and run" thing. maybe it's the bristol air

00:59:03 [rik]

possibly. it's a unixnet thing, at least.

00:59:22 [rik]

bah. i just realised i'm not in #infoanarchy here.

00:59:24 [rik]

* rik blaaaahs.

00:59:35 [rik]

* rik shouts CROSS! OVER!

00:59:56 [jillzilla]

is rik in bristol already?

01:00:02 [rik]

not yet

01:00:11 [AaronSw]

where are you now?

01:00:11 [rik]

i can be though.. hold on...

01:00:23 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw looks confused

01:00:43 [rik_]

rik_ (rik@bits.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack

01:00:47 [rik_]

me0w.

01:00:48 [jillzilla]

I knew it.

01:00:52 [jillzilla]

FAKE RIK!

01:00:58 [rik_]

not fake rik

01:01:03 [jillzilla]

FAKE RIK!!!

01:01:06 [rik]

not fake!

01:01:09 [Morbus]

* Morbus peers at Rik.

01:01:13 [Morbus]

FAKE RIK!!!!!

01:01:17 [rik]

NOT FAKE!

01:01:19 [jillzilla]

FAKE RIK!!!!!!!!!

01:01:23 [rik]

NO!

01:01:24 [jillzilla]

/kick him!

01:01:30 [jillzilla]

Burn the witch!

01:01:34 [rik_]

rik_ is now known as jil1zilla

01:01:35 [sbp]

I am real. Much realer than you. Rik!

01:01:37 [Morbus]

oohH, jillzilla broke the pattern!

01:01:43 [jil1zilla]

jil1zilla has quit (Client Quit)

01:01:44 [Morbus]

you had either 7 or 8 exclamations, but you have 9!

01:01:58 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla hangs her head.

01:02:04 [Morbus]

7 for odd's, 8 for pythagoream.

01:02:04 [sbp]

in shame! in shame!

01:02:10 [sbp]

do it again properly, please

01:02:15 [Morbus]

actually, no, it would have to be 7.

01:02:27 [jillzilla]

FAKE RIK!!!!!!!

01:02:35 [Morbus]

ahead. better.

01:02:35 [rik]

NOT HERE!!!!!!!!!

01:02:39 [sbp]

no, no, no, I mean about hanging your head in shame

01:02:52 [rik]

or should I have done 11 !'s, to stay prime?

01:02:52 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla hangs her head in SHAME, ffs.

01:03:02 [sbp]

s'marvellous :-)

01:03:08 [jillzilla]

:)

01:03:53 [Morbus]

coulda gone either way, rik :)

01:04:02 [rik]

heh

01:04:39 [rik]

but yes, i study at bris.ac.uk

01:05:14 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla still shivers at the "bris" part.

01:05:19 [jillzilla]

ugh.

01:05:27 [rik]

this is obsservable by looking at the student lists on www.cs.bris.ac.uk

01:05:32 [rik]

i used to be rr8504.

01:05:35 [sbp]

s'quick, 'slick, s'rik

01:05:37 [rik]

hm. this is a point..

01:05:45 [rik]

* rik checks something.

01:05:58 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #swhack

01:06:20 [rik]

aww

01:06:22 [rik]

* rik pouts.

01:06:26 [rik]

they really did remove my account!

01:06:32 [AaronSw]

ha

01:06:37 [AaronSw]

i mean, that sucks

01:06:43 [sbp]

heh

01:06:51 [AaronSw]

i don't even see a category for kittens! s'an outrage

01:06:56 [rik]

hahah.

01:06:59 [Morbus]

bwahahahooboohoo

01:07:41 [rik]

* rik looks at Morbus quizzically

01:08:19 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla writes a letter in Chinese.

01:08:23 [sbp]

* sbp rummages in the swhack bargain basement bit bucket for some kitty treats

01:08:45 [AaronSw]

ooh, 404! http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/Research/Vacancies/CryptographySecurity/index.html

01:08:50 [AaronSw]

linked from http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/Research/Vacancies/lecturer.html

01:09:05 [rik]

yes. i know...

01:09:23 [AaronSw]

:GuyOnPhone :thinksBetterPerformanceWillBeIn "pulp", "paper" .

01:09:49 [rik]

Nigel Smart is a name you might recognize, if you know your elliptic curve cryptography.

01:10:28 [sbp]

Um...

01:10:50 [AaronSw]

I think the only ECC guy I know is Rob Harley...

01:11:30 [AaronSw]

java gives you stomachache: http://relativity.yi.org/rss/images/java.gif

01:11:40 [rik]

hm. aparently _the_ book to have about ECC is co-written by Nigel..

01:12:01 [sbp]

java gives me nightmares

01:12:39 [rik]

* rik shrugs, and decides to head to his basket.

01:13:25 [sbp]

* sbp lobs a treat or two at rik

01:13:44 [rik]

* rik turns back, makes a few happy crunching sounds, and heads off again

01:13:50 [sbp]

:-)

01:13:51 [rik]

night all :)

01:13:52 [sbp]

'night

01:14:00 [AaronSw]

nite :)

01:16:38 [AaronSw]

compare: http://dublincore.org/images/header/logo_lg.gif vs. http://www.thesmallworlds.com/images/rtcolumn/featurehd_inthepress.gif

01:17:10 [sbp]

one's green, and one's red

01:17:14 [sbp]

one has text, one does not

01:17:20 [AaronSw]

ignore the text

01:17:32 [sbp]

one has two ringy things, the other has three ringy things

01:17:32 [AaronSw]

key point: java users are copycats!

01:18:38 [sbp]

* sbp wonders if the DCMI logo is under GPL

01:19:10 [sbp]

with weird clauses "you can add smiley faces to the blobs, but any other modifications are not permitted"

01:19:17 [AaronSw]

someone pours a cup of coffee on telecon, sounds/feels like they're pouring it in my ear

01:19:35 [AaronSw]

they couldn't do that w/o permission since the GPL isn't under GPL ;)

01:19:48 [sbp]

heh, WTF?!

01:19:55 [deltab]

what, pour coffee?

01:20:15 [AaronSw]

no, the coffee wasn't under the GPL either.

01:20:18 [sbp]

maybe the milk was off and they poured it in the bin

01:20:28 [Morbus]

what about coffee cup logos?

01:20:30 [deltab]

free coffee!

01:20:30 [sbp]

or down the sink, as most people would do

01:20:38 [AaronSw]

sbp, was the WTF re GPL or coffee?

01:20:38 [Morbus]

winer never replied to my bday card.

01:20:43 [Morbus]

i wonder if his mail servers are down too

01:20:44 [sbp]

.google Open Source Coffee

01:20:47 [xena]

Open Source Coffee: http://www.sfbg.com/SFLife/35/30/lead.html

01:20:50 [AaronSw]

he replied on his webstie, silyl

01:20:57 [AaronSw]

.google open source footwear

01:20:58 [sbp]

it was on the GPL thingy

01:20:58 [xena]

open source footwear: http://www.redherring.com/insider/2002/0424/2780.html

01:21:06 [AaronSw]

what's wrong with the GPL thingy?

01:21:26 [Morbus]

awww

01:22:05 [deltab]

the GPL's licence allows it to be copied verbatim only

01:22:24 [AaronSw]

but there are soem modifciations (liek the web services one) with permission

01:22:43 [sbp]

s'ironic

01:23:16 [AaronSw]

why?

01:23:23 [AaronSw]

stallman has a principle to explain it

01:23:58 [sbp]

it makes sense, s'just ironic

01:26:19 [sbp]

wow, the word "chippily" exists

01:26:45 [AaronSw]

.wn chippily

01:28:37 [sbp]

.google chippily

01:28:39 [xena]

chippily: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicsobituaries/story/0,1441,563455,00.html

01:28:51 [sbp]

.google chippesquely

01:28:52 [xena]

chippesquely: http://www.google.com/search?btnI=1&q=chippesquely

01:29:06 [sbp]

Um...

01:29:26 [AaronSw]

lol

01:29:49 [AaronSw]

i think that means no matches

01:30:00 [notZakim]

notZakim has quit (Remote closed the connection)

01:30:06 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw fixes

01:30:20 [sbp]

I think that means .google is absolu-borkulatingly-mega-smegged

01:30:31 [AaronSw]

hey! i wrote that code

01:30:52 [sbp]

and there's the poorf

01:30:58 [Morbus]

AaronSw: can you check the gamespot feeds in gamegrene.com/rss/

01:31:12 [sbp]

s/poorf/proof/

01:31:12 [Morbus]

they're not being served with the appl/xml content-type right now.

01:31:27 [Morbus]

(they're not dynamic, like the cgi, so I gotta reconf apache for .xml extensions)

01:31:36 [AaronSw]

.rehash

01:31:42 [sbp]

.respawn!

01:32:15 [AaronSw]

.google chippesquely

01:32:17 [xena]

chippesquely: http://www.google.com/search?btnI=1&q=chippesquely

01:32:17 [bijan]

bijan (~bparsia@janeg-pc2.ils.unc.edu) has joined #swhack

01:32:30 [sbp]

s'absolu-borkulatingly-mega-smegged still

01:32:51 [sbp]

hey there bijan

01:32:53 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw narrowly escapes vi hell

01:33:01 [bijan]

Hi ho.

01:33:06 [bijan]

* bijan slums.

01:33:25 [bijan]

* bijan frets about his presentation

01:33:30 [Morbus]

bijan!

01:33:36 [bijan]

Morbus!

01:33:43 [AaronSw]

.rehash

01:33:45 [AaronSw]

.google chippesquely

01:33:46 [xena]

chippesquely: no match found

01:34:19 [sbp]

well done, good show ol' chap!

01:34:32 [bijan]

Aaron, are you planning to go to grad school/college/whatever?

01:34:42 [bijan]

Say, at UofMd?

01:34:51 [bijan]

Where I can crush your spirit with my own two hands?

01:35:11 [AaronSw]

i wasn't planning on umd, but my cousin goes there

01:35:17 [bijan]

"Well, aaron, Cobal programmers need RDF/XML parsers *too* y'know"

01:35:18 [AaronSw]

it should be close enough for your hands

01:35:43 [bijan]

It should or he/she should.

01:35:49 [bijan]

Yes, I could practice on your cousin.

01:35:56 [bijan]

Though I hardly need *practice*.

01:36:08 [bijan]

As I was telling sean, I got my Maryland offer letter today.

01:36:13 [AaronSw]

that should

01:36:13 [bijan]

So, something on real paper :)

01:37:07 [bijan]

*But* ibm and ms have offered me a $50,000 bounty for each SemWeb future researcher/advocate I destroy.

01:37:12 [AaronSw]

lol

01:37:13 [bijan]

So, I'm looking for fresh meat.

01:37:34 [bijan]

Rewriting "simple *prima facie* argument"

01:37:54 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw decides not to mention his confusion with the article

01:38:03 [sbp]

Gotta run

01:38:06 [bijan]

"As anyone knows, given the standard S5 Kripke semantics, interworld accessibile..'

01:38:07 [bijan]

Really?

01:38:10 [bijan]

What confusion?

01:38:22 [AaronSw]

i'm not mentioning it

01:38:27 [bijan]

or rather, knowing you, which confusion.

01:38:32 [bijan]

Just *use* it aaron, I'll understand.

01:38:39 [AaronSw]

what?

01:38:49 [bijan]

your confusion.

01:38:50 [bijan]

See!

01:39:01 [AaronSw]

use my confusion?

01:39:16 [bijan]

heh.

01:39:18 [bijan]

Stop.

01:39:34 [bijan]

* bijan welcomes feedback or requests for clarification, especially on specific points.

01:40:10 [AaronSw]

well, i assumed prima facie meant by analogy demonstratum ... i.e. BAD, but then it didn't and so i was confused

01:40:24 [bijan]

Ah, no.

01:40:30 [bijan]

prima facie means "on the face of it"

01:40:48 [bijan]

So, for example, a prima facie moral principle is one you apply by default.

01:40:49 [AaronSw]

right, got that, but what's that got to do with the argument?

01:41:05 [AaronSw]

you use google by default?

01:41:08 [bijan]

The argument is just a "starting point" argument, not a conclusive one.

01:41:28 [bijan]

I don't mean it to be my *final* argument for the SemWeb.

01:41:43 [AaronSw]

Ah.

01:41:48 [bijan]

E.g., suppose I was wrong and there are no cool SemantiGoogle applications.

01:42:09 [bijan]

If SemantiGoogleCoolness was *necessary* for the goodness of the SemWeb, we'd be screwed.

01:42:24 [bijan]

But it's not.

01:42:31 [bijan]

And I didn't mean my argument to suggest that it was.

01:42:43 [AaronSw]

Ah. That's why I think BAD works better.

01:42:51 [bijan]

But it's not a bad argument.

01:43:05 [bijan]

And I don't know why you think "by analogy" is "i.e., bad"

01:43:09 [AaronSw]

Is there a logical principle for this kind of thing?

01:43:17 [bijan]

There are great by analogy args.

01:43:39 [bijan]

Not *per se*. but this is a dialectic not a deduction.

01:43:42 [AaronSw]

In Jewish law, there's this concept that if Bob did X and he got N punishment, then anyone who does something worse than X will get >=N punishment

01:44:00 [AaronSw]

(i assume it applies to other things than punishment...)

01:44:01 [bijan]

Sure.

01:44:06 [bijan]

Proporationality.

01:44:08 [AaronSw]

i was wondering if there was a similar logical concept

01:44:20 [AaronSw]

eh, no, it's not proportionally which is what got me bothered

01:44:21 [bijan]

perhaps. i don't know off hand.

01:44:44 [bijan]

I did intend it to be a burden of proof shift.

01:44:51 [bijan]

I.e., there are naysays about the SemWeb.

01:45:08 [bijan]

this argument says, "you have to do better than this argument before you can diss the SemWeb"

01:45:22 [AaronSw]

Ah.

01:45:27 [AaronSw]

That makes more sense, then.

01:46:00 [bijan]

I'm still failing to see the bit that made <=N sense.

01:46:03 [bijan]

:)

01:46:17 [AaronSw]

It's just that it seemed below your usual standard for logical rigor.

01:46:17 [bijan]

Not all reasoning is deductive or conclusive.

01:46:23 [AaronSw]

Of course, of course.

01:46:24 [bijan]

Why?

01:46:41 [AaronSw]

Because I've seen you tear people apart when they make non-deductive leaps.

01:46:51 [AaronSw]

Maybe I'm just imagining it, tho.

01:46:52 [bijan]

Actually, pointing out it's exact status (i.e., prima facie) *was* being rigors.

01:47:00 [bijan]

Well, if they say it's deductive, sure :)

01:47:21 [bijan]

Actually, I'll tear them apart if their prima facie argument isn't compelling.

01:47:28 [bijan]

I happen to think the google arg is *very* compelling.

01:48:11 [bijan]

And there's a difference between, say, a non-deductive leap (which may use, say, induction or abduction) and making, say, a non sequitur.

01:48:16 [bijan]

Or an outright fallacy.

01:48:20 [bijan]

Or some other sort.

01:48:26 [AaronSw]

Hm.

01:48:27 [AaronSw]

well, yours is sort of like the web argument...

01:48:36 [AaronSw]

TimBL made the web and it was really cool

01:48:45 [AaronSw]

so if he makes something bigger than the web it'll be even more cool!

01:48:46 [tansaku_xr]

tansaku_xr (~sam@h132-130.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack

01:48:58 [bijan]

Note that i did point to how it compares with the Cyc argument.

01:49:00 [bijan]

Which I don't find as compelling.

01:49:04 [bijan]

yeah, that's a *terrible* argument.

01:49:06 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

01:49:33 [AaronSw]

why is that so terrible?

01:49:40 [bijan]

If just because of the empirical fact that plenty of people have made cool things and then gone on to make only crap.

01:50:07 [bijan]

And there are lots of other possible explanations of why the web is cool other than Tim making it.

01:50:15 [bijan]

E.g., timing, mosaic, etc.

01:50:26 [AaronSw]

s/tim made both/semweb is extension of the web but for machines/

01:50:38 [bijan]

Er..yes?

01:50:52 [bijan]

Note that the google argumetn is *much* more specific than either of these.

01:51:13 [bijan]

It points out htat *what makes google cool* is what it can infer from loads of untyped links (and text/style analysis)

01:51:39 [AaronSw]

Let me try more specifically:

01:51:40 [AaronSw]

1. Web documents are for humans

01:51:40 [AaronSw]

2. Humans do amazingly cool machines with a global knowledge store

01:51:40 [AaronSw]

3. Semweb documents are for machines

01:51:40 [AaronSw]

4. Machines should be able to do amazingly cool machines with a global knowledge store

01:51:45 [bijan]

I claim that the semweb is all about giving things like google more stuff to infer from in those loads of links and in that content.

01:51:55 [bijan]

Yeah, that's pretty weak too.

01:52:01 [bijan]

Though better than the first one.

01:52:26 [bijan]

It's not clear that machines can do cool things with documents at all, much less ones that are "for them"

01:52:31 [bijan]

Thus your analogy is relatively weak.

01:53:02 [AaronSw]

What makes you think someone can do cool things with typed links?

01:53:19 [bijan]

well, several things.

01:53:24 [bijan]

but, lets take one example.

01:53:32 [bijan]

Compilers can infer lots of wonderful thing from type information

01:53:41 [bijan]

That lets them speed up code amazingly.

01:53:53 [AaronSw]

that's a different sense of type, i think

01:53:56 [AaronSw]

that's datatype

01:54:03 [bijan]

Not all that differnt.

01:54:05 [bijan]

Actually.

01:54:11 [AaronSw]

well, we've had the datatyped web for a while now

01:54:15 [AaronSw]

just head the other side of the link

01:54:16 [bijan]

The point is the more information relavant to the task, often the better you can do.

01:54:22 [bijan]

The links are typed.

01:54:38 [bijan]

Note that it might turn out that having oodles of types breaks things like google.

01:54:42 [bijan]

because they get overwhelmed.

01:54:50 [bijan]

I.e,. they have to default back to untyped to get anything done.

01:55:02 [bijan]

That's a real possibility, afaik, and a point of weakness in the argument.

01:55:23 [bijan]

I don't think it's *plausible*, mind. To the degree you think it's plausible you'll find my argument weak.

01:55:55 [bijan]

The reason the argument is effective is that, I think, most people fine that possibility implausible.

01:56:14 [bijan]

The reason the argument is pretty good, I think, is that it *is* implausible.

01:56:15 [AaronSw]

Well, Raph's done some work with the PageRank algorithm on typed links. You basically have to follow the graph for each type...

01:56:26 [bijan]

oh cool!

01:56:35 [bijan]

yes, we should be able to do some type inference on links.

01:56:36 [AaronSw]

see Advogato for an example

01:56:39 [bijan]

Sorry, I didn't mean to rule that out.

01:56:52 [bijan]

jillzilla, yes, that's another issue.

01:56:57 [AaronSw]

[OLM]

01:57:11 [bijan]

The argument assumed, for hte sake of arg, that we got trustable type info.

01:57:23 [AaronSw]

but that's the genius of PageTRank! it works on the rest of the world, not the webmast'ers own claims

01:57:31 [bijan]

I.e., one thing that would make the SemWeb fail *even if* the googlearg is correct is that we couldn't achieve it.

01:57:32 [AaronSw]

any SW system would work the same way, I'd guess

01:58:02 [bijan]

But note that's an argument that the SW is hard or impossible to achieve, not that it wouldn't be good to have.

01:58:04 [jillzilla]

AaronSw: Maybe I don't understand the SW systems being proposed, but I thought the _point_ of them was to trust metadata bout the site.

01:58:10 [bijan]

My argument was only that it would be good to have.

01:58:22 [AaronSw]

jill, sure, but not written by the site's owners!

01:58:31 [jillzilla]

Ohhhhhh...I missed something HUGE.

01:58:32 [AaronSw]

That'd just be silly, ala old PICS stuff.

01:58:33 [bijan]

Again, I tried to fit my conclusions to the modest power of the argument.

01:58:42 [jillzilla]

Where does the metadata come from?

01:58:46 [bijan]

Well, it would depend.

01:58:50 [bijan]

Some owners might get trusted.

01:58:58 [bijan]

Some might be trusted if what they actually said was plausible.

01:59:14 [bijan]

They might all be trust to some weak degree until soem other evidence weighed against them.

01:59:15 [bijan]

Etc.

01:59:22 [AaronSw]

But I think most would come from other trusted sources. Like Consumer Reports or other similar things.

01:59:31 [AaronSw]

And trust networks...

01:59:36 [bijan]

Aaron, yes, "soft typing" of weblinks is a fruitful area of research IMO.

01:59:56 [bijan]

I tried to be agnostic in my article about *how* the links got typed.

02:00:23 [bijan]

E.g., if Cyc turns out to be a super godlike genius in 20 years and can jsut *browse* the entire google database...

02:00:32 [bijan]

then we wouldn't need to do much encoding by hand :)

02:00:45 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw imagines Cyc as the P2P Terminator...

02:00:46 [bijan]

we == we humans

02:01:14 [bijan]

But that's a "how do we get it" not a "is the result worth having"

02:03:13 [jillzilla]

I think how we get the result is. in the real world, closely related to how worth having it will be.

02:04:08 [bijan]

jillzilla, in the final analysis, sure.

02:04:27 [bijan]

If it ends up costing more in blood and tears and money than we get out of it...

02:04:59 [bijan]

E.g., "oh geez, I have to learn rdf, webont, and 75 frickin ontologies just some my page comes before some loser in a google search?!?!?"

02:05:47 [bijan]

That's another reason that the argument is *only* prima facie.

02:06:06 [tansaku_x]

tansaku_x has quit (Connection timed out)

02:06:08 [bijan]

Since I'm not specific on the effort require or of the results, it can't really judge there.

02:06:39 [bijan]

So, if someone had some more specific evidence about the specific cost/benefits, that would return the burden of proof to me.

02:07:13 [AaronSw]

Wow, Adobe won a patent trial.

02:07:13 [bijan]

There's a bit of mere suggestiveness in my argument, i.e., that it's not only google that will be able to do cool things.

02:07:35 [bijan]

Which is how I'd probably respond to rejoiners along the above sketched out lines.

02:08:05 [bijan]

(Remember that with this sort of debate, we're *all* working with hugely incomplete information, and yet we must make decisions!)

02:11:43 [AaronSw]

Oops, I'm supposed to be doing work.

02:11:49 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw invisiblizes

02:11:53 [bijan]

I *am* doing work :)

02:11:55 [bijan]

Sorta.

02:13:41 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html

02:13:53 [bijan]

So much for work :)

02:14:14 [AaronSw]

i'm just reading this and then i'll work

02:14:26 [chumpy]

A: http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html from AaronSw

02:14:36 [bijan]

Heheh.

02:14:39 [bijan]

It is interesting.

02:14:45 [AaronSw]

A:|GNU Peru responds to Microsoft Peru on the Free Software Bill

02:14:49 [bijan]

So you're work is to stop me from working! :0

02:15:02 [chumpy]

titled item A

02:15:06 [bijan]

* bijan tries to get his MIDI based implementation of Conway's life working.

02:15:15 [AaronSw]

MIDI as in music?

02:15:29 [bijan]

yep.

02:16:29 [bijan]

That's a *great* letter.

02:16:38 [AaronSw]

tell the chump

02:16:54 [bijan]

Eh.

02:17:00 [bijan]

but then people will think I hang out here!

02:17:11 [AaronSw]

you do

02:17:26 [bijan]

yes, but I don't want people to *think* I do.

02:17:32 [bijan]

That's why they call it "slumming" :)

02:17:39 [AaronSw]

Then I will say it for you.

02:17:45 [AaronSw]

AaronSw is now known as hBijan

02:17:55 [hBijan]

A::That's a *great* letter.

02:17:59 [hBijan]

hBijan is now known as AaronSw

02:17:59 [bijan]

That's fraud.

02:18:06 [AaronSw]

how? you said it

02:18:11 [chumpy]

commented item A

02:18:22 [bijan]

A:Aaron forged my nick! I'd *never* post to a lame chump in a dumb vanity channel like this!!!

02:18:28 [bijan]

two :/

02:18:35 [bijan]

A::Aaron forged my nick! I'd *never* post to a lame chump in a dumb vanity channel like this!!!

02:18:45 [AaronSw]

A::Oops, a little late now.

02:18:51 [chumpy]

commented item A

02:19:08 [chumpy]

commented item A

02:19:10 [bijan]

A::Damn. Just for that, I spell it "Araon"!

02:19:26 [AaronSw]

A::Oops, a little late now.

02:19:27 [chumpy]

commented item A

02:19:44 [chumpy]

commented item A

02:21:07 [AaronSw]

Now I'm working.

02:21:08 [wmf]

wmf (~wmf@cs666872-156.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack

02:21:13 [wmf]

swh-syn!

02:21:16 [AaronSw]

augh, just when i was about to work

02:21:20 [AaronSw]

syn?

02:21:44 [wmf]

what, you don't know the mating call of the Internet?

02:21:49 [AaronSw]

ah

02:21:51 [AaronSw]

swh-ack

02:21:54 [AaronSw]

hah, i get it

02:22:08 [AaronSw]

actually, it's syn-ack isn't it

02:22:14 [wmf]

anyway, you have no chance to work, make your time

02:22:27 [AaronSw]

i was afraid of that

02:22:37 [deltab]

SYN! SYN-ACK! ACK!

02:23:03 [AaronSw]

soudns like an attack call

02:23:05 [bijan]

Alluding in an abstract way to "the dangers this can bring", without specifically mentioning a single one of these supposed dangers, shows at the least some lack of knowledge of the topic. So, allow me to enlighten you on these points.

02:23:06 [bijan]

Oh oh oh

02:23:09 [bijan]

This guy RULES!

02:23:21 [bijan]

I want to move to peru!

02:23:26 [bijan]

And vote for this guy.

02:23:39 [AaronSw]

Oh, wow, he's a congressman.

02:23:45 [bijan]

Yes!

02:23:51 [AaronSw]

and a Dr.

02:23:54 [bijan]

I NEVER get to vote for such a cool congressperson!

02:24:01 [bijan]

And I desparately want to.

02:24:11 [AaronSw]

Maybe kendall should run for office.

02:24:52 [bijan]

In reality, the inclusion of this question in your observations shows your confusion in respect of the legal framework in which free software is developed.

02:24:53 [bijan]

Hehe.

02:25:35 [AaronSw]

At least in peru they don't get the free beer jokes.

02:25:36 [wmf]

speaking of legal frameworks, I just found out that open source isn't piracy. I'll sleep much better now!

02:25:47 [AaronSw]

Whoa? Who says?

02:26:03 [wmf]

oh, you didn't see it because it was on /.

02:26:13 [wmf]

I think MS said it

02:26:26 [AaronSw]

oh, well i can trust them

02:26:53 [AaronSw]

if "Attack of the Clones to Cost Economy $300m" how much does /. cost?

02:31:23 [AaronSw]

Oh, did I mention? Literary Machines came today in the mail.

02:31:44 [AaronSw]

Yes, I am a Ted Nelson fanboy.

02:32:26 [oierw]

oierw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

02:34:00 [bijan]

Hmm. Now there's a project calling for a large research budge.

02:34:02 [bijan]

budget

02:34:12 [jillzilla]

research budgie!

02:34:17 [bijan]

Taking the fragment of the google archive released for the contest and Xanaduizing it :0

02:34:30 [AaronSw]

research budgie? that's what they have at the MIT Media Lab

02:34:31 [AaronSw]

ahem

02:35:10 [bijan]

* bijan has a teenyweeny research budget.

02:35:22 [bijan]

I.e., what change I find in other people's couches.

02:36:12 [AaronSw]

That's because everyone thinks you're great.

02:40:48 [AaronSw]

Hm, this proof doesn't make sense. It seems to be begging the question...

02:41:23 [bijan]

What proof?

02:41:37 [AaronSw]

The proof in my textbook.

02:41:55 [AaronSw]

It assumes that if a is congruent to be (mod n) then a=b+kn

02:42:00 [AaronSw]

s/be/b/

02:42:17 [rik]

rik has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)

02:42:20 [rik]

rik (spamtrap@dsl-212-23-24-254.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack

02:42:32 [AaronSw]

rik, you are on the wrong server

02:43:01 [walloper]

<lilo> Hub routing problem, Europe

02:49:25 [bijan]

Anyone have any idea how to mount/use an external USB based hard drive in win2000.

02:49:31 [bijan]

(Yes this is hell, nor have I left it.

02:56:39 [davb]

i would think it has its own driver.

02:56:47 [bijan]

It's working.

02:56:55 [bijan]

All the hardware thingies say "Yay"

02:56:59 [davb]

see, i fixed it.

02:57:08 [bijan]

But I don't have a drive letter for it.

02:57:11 [davb]

oh.

02:57:14 [bijan]

So I don't know how to explore it.

02:57:16 [bijan]

Yah.

02:57:45 [bijan]

I.e, it's working as usb hardware but not as a hard drive for me (yet).

02:57:49 [bijan]

Advice welcome.

03:08:21 [davb]

davb has quit ("Client Exiting")

03:43:43 [Ash]

Ash is now known as CluePhone

03:44:04 [CluePhone]

CluePhone is now known as Ash

03:52:48 [SteveO]

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03:56:56 [AaronSw]

Hi there SteveO

03:57:09 [AaronSw]

Did bijan suck you in?

03:57:27 [SteveO]

Well, indirectly.

03:57:46 [SteveO]

Is he active in here?

03:58:24 [AaronSw]

Occasionally.

03:59:27 [SteveO]

Hmm...what made you think that I was looking for bijan?

03:59:45 [AaronSw]

I didn't think that.

03:59:53 [AaronSw]

I simply noted you're in #squeak.

04:00:08 [SteveO]

Heh...OK! :)

04:00:21 [SteveO]

So what's this channel for anyway?

04:00:41 [SteveO]

The topic is rather...."Generic". :)

04:02:42 [wmf]

whoa, dreamweaver mx is 67MB

04:03:55 [wmf]

SteveO: it's either SwartzHacking or SemanticWebHacking

04:04:00 [AaronSw]

I'm Swartz.

04:04:04 [wmf]

we're not really sure

04:04:15 [jillzilla]

I prefer the onomatopoeia explanation.

04:04:22 [AaronSw]

it's the sound made when hitting someone with a clue-by-four.

04:04:47 [SteveO]

Heh. I'm checking the http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome now.

04:05:52 [AaronSw]

heh: http://tigert.gimp.org/files/nautilus/hacks/poetry/geek-code-hack.png

04:06:17 [wmf]

yeah

04:06:27 [wmf]

I have real geek code magnets at work

04:06:38 [AaronSw]

"this ain't dad's Photoshop..."

04:06:49 [wmf]

tigert is the man

04:06:58 [AaronSw]

I didn't know they made geek code magnets.

04:07:05 [wmf]

thinkgeek does

04:07:09 [AaronSw]

ah

04:07:28 [AaronSw]

lol! http://tigert.gimp.org/files/nautilus/hacks/poetry/words.png

04:07:35 [wmf]

er, they're geek poetry magnets, not geek code magnets as in G++ D- r+++

04:07:45 [AaronSw]

that's what i figured

04:07:51 [AaronSw]

the latter would be sorta weird

04:08:05 [AaronSw]

but it is what i first expected

04:08:19 [wmf]

I've occasionally wondered whether the mexican is flaming...

04:08:45 [AaronSw]

the mexican monkey is flaming, i think

04:09:02 [AaronSw]

hm, this is a 'time flies like an arrow' sorta sentence

04:10:02 [wmf]

geez, I have a .gnut_last_turd file on my machine

04:10:40 [jillzilla]

ewwwww

04:11:11 [wmf]

my thought exactly. the dirty software can't even clean up after itself

04:11:13 [AaronSw]

don't open it!

04:11:35 [wmf]

it's 0K. the app must mark its territory

04:11:52 [SteveO]

SteveO has left #swhack

04:12:03 [AaronSw]

heh, we scared him off

04:12:06 [wmf]

if I designed an OS, there would be no invisibile files

04:12:46 [AaronSw]

alias ls="ls -a"

04:13:59 [wmf]

it's not that easy

04:15:43 [AaronSw]

heh: test question 5. "State and prove Fermat's Theorem."

04:15:48 [AaronSw]

^ actual test question

04:16:18 [wmf]

if apps assume they can hide their files, they litter them everywhere so you have to hide the resulting mess to stay sane

04:16:36 [wmf]

it doesn't say Fermat's *Last* Theorem :-)

04:16:46 [wmf]

did you see Gabriel's fake systems qual?

04:16:51 [AaronSw]

It doesn't say Fermat's Little Theorem either,

04:16:54 [AaronSw]

no...

04:17:06 [wmf]

very funny

04:17:23 [AaronSw]

link?

04:17:31 [AaronSw]

http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/Semester2AnnotationsBook.pdf?

04:17:34 [wmf]

.google Gabriel fake systems qual

04:17:36 [xena]

Gabriel fake systems qual: http://www.dreamsongs.com/Essays.html

04:17:50 [AaronSw]

ah: http://www.dreamsongs.com/SystemsQual.html

04:18:33 [wmf]

it's basically making fun of people who were obsessed with networks and micros in the early 80s

04:20:47 [AaronSw]

Ah, so the proof is: "Coaxial cable"

04:21:44 [wmf]

we may not have come that far, though; it seems like the answer to everything in our lab is more cat 5 cable...

04:22:23 [wmf]

we consume cables at an alarming rate

04:23:44 [AaronSw]

heh: 10<=x<=15

04:25:40 [wmf]

these days you can't get out of grad school if you've written more programs than you've done simulations

04:27:36 [AaronSw]

The only explicable use of simulations is by freenet, which uses them so they can make their networking system look better than it really is.

04:30:10 [wmf]

I know a bunch of chip designer grad students, and all they do is simulations

04:32:08 [wmf]

I hope dreamweaver doesn't mangle my Zope site through webdav

04:33:50 [wmf]

uh oh, it can't handle resources without filename extensions

04:35:37 [AaronSw]

hah, i laugh at it

04:55:38 [wmf]

wmf has quit ("[BX] Silly wabbit, BitchX is for kids!")

04:59:11 [AaronSw]

it sounds like somebody is screaming their guts out outside

04:59:13 [AaronSw]

in short spurts:

04:59:17 [AaronSw]

"baaaaa!"

04:59:26 [AaronSw]

hm, mayb it's a bird

05:03:03 [syn|ack]

syn|ack has quit ("Client Exiting")

05:30:58 [AaronSw]

Hm, my math teacher's name is Jill and she used the phrase "dear me, Aaron" on one of my tests. Coincidence? I think not.

05:32:05 [bijan]

dear me, Aaron

05:32:19 [AaronSw]

Your name is not jill.

05:32:29 [bijan]

And my middle initial is "j"

05:32:35 [AaronSw]

ooh.

05:32:37 [bijan]

It *could be* jill!

05:32:40 [AaronSw]

Does it stand for Jay?

05:32:48 [AaronSw]

Bijan J. Parsia

05:32:51 [bijan]

No.

05:32:52 [AaronSw]

Homer J. Simpson

05:32:53 [bijan]

Yes.

05:32:55 [bijan]

No

05:33:22 [AaronSw]

mighty suspicious

05:33:40 [bijan]

Not really.

05:34:37 [jillzilla]

Dear me!

05:34:45 [bijan]

Dear me, jill!

05:34:50 [jillzilla]

Dear Sean!

05:34:51 [bijan]

Or dear *you*, I should say.

05:34:58 [jillzilla]

sbp made the same joke the other day. :-)

05:35:06 [bijan]

Ack!

05:35:10 [AaronSw]

Coincidence? I think not.

05:35:17 [bijan]

Well, better that I echo sean than Aaron.

05:35:44 [jillzilla]

yeah, who would want to echo Aaron? Cooties!

05:35:59 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw looks puzzled

05:36:15 [bijan]

Even *aaron* (aaron) doesn't want to echo (o) Aaron (ron ron ron...)

05:36:18 [AaronSw]

On my system:

05:36:20 [AaronSw]

$ echo Aaron

05:36:20 [AaronSw]

Aaron

05:36:23 [AaronSw]

I see no cooties.

05:36:31 [bijan]

Hm.

05:36:33 [jillzilla]

cooties are *very* *small*.

05:36:34 [bijan]

* bijan tests

05:36:42 [bijan]

$ echo Aaron

05:36:44 [bijan]

Aaron

05:36:51 [AaronSw]

see!

05:36:55 [bijan]

Eww! I have Aaron cooties. rm everythign

05:37:03 [bijan]

See!

05:37:11 [bijan]

You made my system typo and kill itself.

05:37:16 [jillzilla]

AHA!

05:37:19 [bijan]

Fortuneately it was someone else's system.

05:37:26 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla nods knowingly.

05:37:39 [bijan]

Your system has echoed you so much its long infested and resigned to it.

05:37:49 [bijan]

So it doesn't complain any more, Aaron.

06:02:28 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw goes for a little sleep

06:06:03 [bijan]

wimp.

06:13:25 [Ash]

* Ash wonders if bijan has any tree files

06:13:37 [bijan]

tree files?

06:14:22 [Ash]

heh heh

06:22:00 [bijan]

Er...missed the joke.

07:09:08 [bijan]

bijan has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

07:15:21 [bijan]

bijan (~bparsia@janeg-pc2.ils.unc.edu) has joined #swhack

07:16:05 [syn|ack]

syn|ack (~synack@210-86-61-13.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack

07:16:28 [syn|ack]

even'n all

07:51:46 [quasi]

quasi (~toftum@tigerdyr.wheel.dk) has joined #swhack

08:50:51 [jillzilla]

hello, synack, quasi.

08:51:39 [syn|ack]

how is life for jillzilla?

08:51:53 [jillzilla]

rather nice. Just got some seriously productive work done.

08:51:56 [jillzilla]

how're you?

08:52:03 [jillzilla]

I went into the ZONE!

08:52:13 [jillzilla]

It's 2am and I'm not even starting to get sleepy.

08:52:16 [syn|ack]

nice when you get in a flow like that

08:52:20 [jillzilla]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

08:52:22 [syn|ack]

what are you working on?

08:52:39 [jillzilla]

I am part of a small team that runs a big web crawl.

08:52:56 [syn|ack]

what sort of work does that require you do?

08:53:52 [syn|ack]

oh, this is your paid job?

08:53:55 [jillzilla]

yes.

08:54:00 [syn|ack]

wow, you guys work long hours...

08:54:07 [syn|ack]

say, do you know Ian Macdonald?

08:54:08 [jillzilla]

I work very irregular hours.

08:54:17 [syn|ack]

heh

08:54:19 [syn|ack]

small world

08:54:27 [jillzilla]

Do you know Ian?

08:54:36 [syn|ack]

only through the Ruby community

08:54:50 [syn|ack]

he is part writing the SOAP API, no?

08:54:54 [jillzilla]

I'm hoping to learn Ruby...

09:07:20 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla looks sympathetic. I used to use C++, so I feel some of your pain.

09:07:29 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla hates c++

09:08:18 [jillzilla]

whew, I have a friend flying in in six hours.

09:08:24 [jillzilla]

Better go catch some zzzzzs.

09:08:27 [jillzilla]

night.

09:08:31 [syn|ack]

okie, night night jillzilla

09:08:38 [syn|ack]

have fun with your company

09:08:46 [jillzilla]

thanks!

09:48:24 [oierw`]

oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack

10:40:24 [rik]

night jillzilla

10:40:35 [rik]

hm. an hour and a half too late

10:48:08 [syn|ack]

heh

10:49:07 [rik]

* rik shrugs

11:01:15 [bijan]

bijan has quit (Remote closed the connection)

11:41:43 [syn|ack]

syn|ack has quit ("[x]chat")

12:26:06 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw looks for FOOOOOD

12:31:30 [quasi]

* quasi got to the food first ;)

12:36:05 [AaronSw]

:)

12:36:06 [AaronSw]

heh: http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/doctor.manifesto.html

12:39:33 [quasi]

lol

12:41:10 [davb]

davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #swhack

12:51:00 [Morbus]

Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

12:51:06 [quasi]

* quasi larts AaronSw for pointing in the direction of that humor page - that could waste a couple of hours laughing ;)

12:51:23 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh

12:53:51 [Morbus]

morning AaronSw.

12:54:03 [AaronSw]

morning

13:05:09 [AaronSw]

GR: final exam

13:38:22 [sbp]

* sbp waves

13:39:38 [Morbus]

sbpppppppp!

13:39:48 [Morbus]

hey, i've got a question for you.

13:40:01 [Morbus]

i need you to write a 1000-2000 line python program for me. it needs to be done by tomorrow.

13:40:04 [Morbus]

can you do it?

13:40:24 [deltab]

to do what?

13:40:30 [sbp]

sure

13:40:45 [Morbus]

it needs to be crossplatform, have absolutely no bugs, and you cant breathe a word of it to anyone.

13:41:01 [sbp]

er... well, I can try

13:41:50 [Morbus]

it needs to hook up to a systolic monitor. when I ... er... the client starts to die, it needs to automatically modify a Last Will, and gpg the results. finally, it needs to automatically modify various aspects of the clients life - all zone ownership needs to change, etc.

13:42:11 [Morbus]

and, the sad thing is...

13:42:19 [Morbus]

that's the best I could do this early in the morning. this really fell flat.

13:42:22 [Morbus]

sigh. i'm sorry.

13:42:28 [sbp]

that's so much more than 1000-2000 lines

13:43:48 [Morbus]

do anything exciting last night?

13:44:07 [sbp]

not massively exciting

13:45:43 [sbp]

sorry, just eating breakunch/lunfast

13:48:42 [Morbus]

we call it brunch around here.

13:49:43 [sbp]

well, the time for brunch has long passed

13:50:13 [sbp]

really, the time for lunch is just about passed too

13:50:23 [Morbus]

sbp. i'm trying to place the name "gappo" or "gapo". that was from the simpsons, right?

13:50:30 [sbp]

Gabbo

13:50:44 [Morbus]

yeah, that's right. thanks.

13:50:48 [sbp]

np

13:51:00 [Morbus]

swhack - we answer your cultural wanderings

13:51:08 [sbp]

heh, heh

13:51:34 [sbp]

we need matrix of swhack slogans, jeebs, and banners

13:58:10 [sbp]

Hmm... http://www.google.com/press/pressrel/aol.html

13:58:46 [sbp]

"Under the agreement, Google's search technology will begin powering the search areas of AOL, CompuServe, AOL.COM and Netscape this summer."

14:48:10 [eikeon]

eikeon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

14:49:14 [Ash]

fwoosh

14:49:29 [Ash]

Ash has changed the topic to: GOOGLE OWN3D BY AOL - STORY AT 11

14:52:15 [sbp]

heh, heh

14:59:10 [Morbus]

whoo. 22,000 downloads on amphetadesk.

15:02:52 [Ash]

Morbus: Sweet!

15:03:32 [Ash]

I don't have 22,000 downloads of anything I've written.

15:03:34 [Ash]

hehe

15:07:52 [Ash]

Morbus: Does it run on TEH LUNIX yet?

15:08:54 [Morbus]

heh. of course, it does. it always has :)

15:08:59 [Ash]

Oh, really?

15:09:02 [Ash]

URL?

15:09:03 [Ash]

hehe

15:09:08 [Ash]

I didn't know that, for some reason.

15:10:00 [Morbus]

really? its coded in perl, you freak ;)

15:10:05 [Morbus]

.google amphetadesk

15:10:07 [xena]

amphetadesk: http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/

15:10:21 [Ash]

LOL

15:10:34 [Morbus]

there are some stupid "Morbus is a moron" issues in the source code, but they're really easy to fix. I'll tell you how if you're ever interested.

15:10:38 [Ash]

Morbus: I looked at it a while ago and haven't really thought about it since then.

15:10:40 [Ash]

Ooh, perl

15:10:44 [Ash]

I can code in perl!

15:10:48 [Ash]

* Ash hax0r

15:21:53 [Morbus]

AaronSw, did you get the apr2002 devtools?

15:25:47 [Ash]

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

15:25:53 [Ash]

@ http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

15:26:30 [chumpy]

B: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html from Ash

15:26:49 [Ash]

B::Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included

15:26:49 [Ash]

the possible assassination of Cuban igr, sinking boats of

15:26:49 [Ash]

Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a

15:26:52 [Ash]

U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

15:26:53 [Ash]

oops

15:26:54 [Ash]

Oh well.

15:27:07 [chumpy]

commented item B

15:32:33 [rik]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/03/navy.pirate.attack/index.html

15:32:44 [rik]

@ http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/03/navy.pirate.attack/index.html

15:33:03 [rik]

* rik pokepoke chumpy.

15:33:12 [chumpy]

C: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/03/navy.pirate.attack/index.html from rik

15:33:39 [rik]

C:\ note to self: do not try and board boat with .50 caliber machine guns.

15:34:08 [rik]

C:note to self: do not try and board boat with .50 caliber machine guns.

15:34:28 [rik]

C::note to self: do not try and board boat with .50 caliber machine guns.

15:34:34 [rik]

one of them's gunna work.

15:34:44 [chumpy]

commented item C

15:38:11 [Ash]

hahahaha

15:38:18 [Ash]

"We surrender! We're sorry!"

15:38:22 [Ash]

BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM

15:39:30 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

15:39:35 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit (Remote closed the connection)

15:40:47 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

15:40:49 [Ash]

hey REDMONK

15:41:19 [redmonk]

*SWHACK*

15:41:29 [redmonk]

* redmonk appears

15:41:39 [redmonk]

how's *that* for an entrance?

15:41:57 [redmonk]

* redmonk waves to Ash

15:54:58 [sbp]

* sbp waves

15:56:49 [sbp]

"oops" of the week: "Officials say they do not believe this was a terrorist incident, but may have been local pirates who may not have realized the ship they were trying to board was a U.S. Navy vessel."

15:57:23 [sbp]

"hey, that boat looks like an easy target!"

16:01:00 [rik]

* rik points at URL C.

16:01:24 [sbp]

yep, that's where I got it from

16:01:32 [rik]

goodgoof

16:01:39 [sbp]

"if the defendant would like to point his attention to URI C..."

16:03:01 [sbp]

(I just thought I'd archive the joke * for people too lazy to follow the link * just in case CNN break the link one day)

16:03:24 [rik]

:)

16:03:43 [sbp]

* sbp continues to hack on rdfn3.g - found that () lists didn't work before

16:05:23 [Ash]

* Ash waves to redmonk

16:05:34 [Ash]

i now have hot chocolate and a pop tart

16:05:35 [Ash]

booya

16:05:51 [redmonk]

cooool.

16:06:01 [redmonk]

* redmonk goes for emergency coffee run

16:10:31 [redmonk]

<homer>Hrmmlmmmmm, caffeinated gooodneessss</homer>

16:17:49 [jillium]

* jillium staggers around and waves.

16:18:01 [redmonk]

hi jill!

16:18:02 [jillium]

arggghjh....few hours of sleep....happy that friend has come to visit....

16:18:03 [sbp]

Jiilllium!

16:18:06 [jillium]

hi, redmonk!

16:18:07 [jillium]

sbp!

16:18:09 [rik]

jillium!

16:18:13 [jillium]

rik!

16:18:22 [sbp]

* sbp does the exclaimation point dance

16:18:22 [rik]

sbp!

16:18:25 [sbp]

rik!

16:18:28 [redmonk]

hehe

16:18:33 [redmonk]

* redmonk does the safety dance

16:18:47 [rik]

redmonk!

16:18:47 [sbp]

Homer: You can dance, you can dance, everybody look at your pants!

16:18:48 [redmonk]

"You can dance if you wanna!"

16:18:55 [Morbus]

its my party!

16:19:02 [Morbus]

and i'll cry if i wanna!

16:19:07 [rik]

* rik pounces on jillium, and curls up.

16:19:21 [redmonk]

slug 'im, jill!

16:19:59 [sbp]

whee!

16:19:59 [sbp]

$ cwm /home/earl/0.95.n3 --ntriples | python norm.py -p | wc

16:19:59 [sbp]

222 1179 27456

16:19:59 [sbp]

$ python cwmclone.py /home/earl/0.95.n3 | cwm --ntriples | python norm.py -p | wc

16:19:59 [sbp]

222 1179 27933

16:20:15 [rik]

?

16:20:44 [sbp]

it means that something worked. not sure what, yet, but it worked

16:20:49 [sbp]

whatever it was

16:20:59 [rik]

heh

16:22:53 [jillium]

* jillium goes to hang with her visiting friend. wheeee!

16:23:01 [sbp]

cool

16:26:04 [sbp]

argh:-

16:26:05 [sbp]

File "/home/2000/10/swap/notation3.py", line 665, in strconst

16:26:05 [sbp]

ustr = ustr + str[j:i]

16:26:05 [sbp]

UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

16:29:19 [Morbus]

mmmm. OOrc02

16:33:57 [redmonk]

what's new?

16:56:28 [sbp]

Gotta run

17:17:19 [quasi]

how did that acronym thingy work?

17:24:45 [rik]

.acronym snafu

17:24:47 [xena]

snafu: Situation Normal All Fouled Up (polite form), Situation Now All Fouled Up (polite form)

17:25:05 [redmonk]

.acronym fubar

17:25:06 [xena]

fubar: Fouled Up Beyond All Recognition, Fouled Up Beyond All Repair, Failed UniBus Address Register (DEC VAX computer), Fouled Up Beyond All Reality, Fouled Up Beyond All Reason, Fouled Up Beyond All Recall, Fouled Up Beyond All Recovery, Fouled Up Beyond All Relief, Fouled Up Beyond All Restitution, Fouled Up But All Right, Fouled Up But Always Running (Team FUBAR, Auto Racing)

17:25:49 [quasi]

* quasi bows and says thankx

17:26:06 [redmonk]

you're welkxome

17:37:37 [Morbus]

* Morbus returns.

17:39:53 [redmonk]

yay! morbus!

17:40:00 [Morbus]

yes,yes, i know, i know.

17:40:05 [Morbus]

did you see my head on oreilly?

17:40:09 [sbp]

* sbp waves

17:40:14 [rik]

* rik returns void *

17:40:20 [sbp]

.google Morbus's head O'Reilly

17:40:22 [xena]

Morbus's head O'Reilly: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-03-05.txt

17:40:25 [sbp]

heh

17:40:28 [Morbus]

whoo!

17:40:49 [sbp]

* sbp ^5's everyone in swhack on that day

17:42:04 [Morbus]

titilation:

17:42:05 [Morbus]

[[

17:42:06 [Morbus]

[13:42] <DrBacchus> This sounds like the start of a really bad joke.

17:42:06 [Morbus]

[13:42] <Morbus> moi? bad joke? never!

17:42:07 [Morbus]

]]

17:42:16 [sbp]

ooh, big crack of thunder

17:42:44 [Morbus]

[[[

17:42:46 [Morbus]

[13:42] <DrBacchus> A string walks into a bar ...

17:42:46 [Morbus]

[13:43] <Morbus> and turns away!

17:42:46 [Morbus]

[13:43] <Morbus> ba dump chish!

17:42:46 [Morbus]

[13:43] <Morbus> [array]

17:42:46 [Morbus]

]]]

17:43:14 [sbp]

and the barman says: "get knotted"

17:43:20 [sbp]

bwahahahahahahahaha!

17:43:33 [Morbus]

er, who are you laughing at?

17:44:04 [sbp]

myself. sad, I know

17:44:10 [rik]

and the barman says "are you a piece of string? I can't serve strings", so the string ruffles himself, twists a bit, and turns to the barman and says, "No, I'm a frayed knot!"

17:44:16 [rik]

<rimshot>

17:44:17 [Morbus]

heh: "[13:44] <Morbus> nacho1: punchline is also |<reply>His very own bath toy! "

17:44:33 [sbp]

heh, heh!

17:45:19 [Morbus]

yeaaaah:

17:45:19 [Morbus]

[[[

17:45:20 [Morbus]

[13:45] <quasi> nacho1: punchline ?

17:45:20 [Morbus]

[13:45] <nacho1> His very own bath toy!

17:45:20 [Morbus]

]]]

17:45:30 [Morbus]

.google Morbus bath toy

17:45:32 [xena]

Morbus bath toy: http://newmedia.slc.edu/~esharp/warehouse/albumlist.htm

17:45:34 [Morbus]

wha?!

17:45:44 [Morbus]

argh.

17:45:55 [sbp]

wow, that sucks

17:46:08 [Morbus]

yeah, i mean, wthell?

17:47:26 [rik]

hm

17:48:12 [quasi]

.wn magnate

17:48:13 [xena]

magnate defined as:

17:48:14 [xena]

- n : a very wealthy or powerful businessman: "an oil baron" [syn: {baron}, {big businessman}, {business leader}, {king}, {mogul}, {power}, {top executive}, {tycoon}]

17:51:18 [sbp]

I think he meant "non sequiturs"

17:51:24 [sbp]

I won't tell him, though... :-)

17:51:28 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

17:51:50 [Morbus]

i dont feel like i've done anythign *important* lately.

17:52:07 [sbp]

you're on the front page of OR

17:52:27 [Morbus]

yeah, but thats for something i did a two months ago ;)

17:52:59 [Morbus]

last night, i fiddled with scraping: http://www.gamegrene.com/rss/

17:53:07 [sbp]

but think how long you struggled to get it published!

17:53:30 [Morbus]

scraping! that's so menial.

17:53:47 [Morbus]

i've been meaning to tweak tara's google scripts too.

17:53:51 [sbp]

Hi. I'm a feed scraper

17:53:57 [Morbus]

the funny thing is, google hasnt changed their design in forever, right?

17:54:01 [sbp]

ooh, who's this "tara", then, eh?

17:54:06 [Morbus]

and there's about a 50 line script to hook into the google api.

17:54:09 [sbp]

well, they do change little bits...

17:54:12 [Morbus]

i could do the same thing with a screen scrape in about 20.

17:54:17 [Morbus]

and its less mem/cpu intensive.

17:54:35 [Morbus]

i don't "get" this whizbang tech. why is it so much better than old tech, when it costs more to use?

17:54:52 [Morbus]

xena, punchline!

17:55:00 [sbp]

.punchline

17:55:04 [sbp]

.excuse me

17:55:04 [xena]

sbp, irq dropout

17:55:11 [Morbus]

wha?

17:55:14 [sbp]

:-)

17:55:20 [Morbus]

ah. excuse. right.

17:55:32 [sbp]

keep up, Morb

17:55:34 [redmonk]

.excuse me

17:55:34 [xena]

redmonk, new guy cross-connected phone lines with ac power bus.

17:55:48 [redmonk]

heh

17:56:07 [redmonk]

.excuse morbus

17:56:08 [xena]

redmonk, pentium fdiv bug

17:56:18 [redmonk]

lol

17:56:20 [redmonk]

oh well

17:56:26 [Morbus]

:)

17:56:30 [Morbus]

cha doing today redmonk.

17:56:31 [Morbus]

inspire me.

17:56:47 [sbp]

he's taming gophers for his own little gopher show on the plains

17:56:49 [redmonk]

i've been hacking WO and Oracle SPs fo two days

17:56:53 [sbp]

close enough

17:56:55 [redmonk]

i finally got it working this am

17:57:02 [Morbus]

funny. just read this, a minute after my blurb above:

17:57:03 [Morbus]

[[[

17:57:04 [Morbus]

As Paul Prescod demonstrates elsewhere in XML.com this week, SOAP adds nothing to what can already be done with existing, openly available, and unencumbered, web technology, but it does add more restrictions.

17:57:04 [Morbus]

]]]

17:57:05 [redmonk]

go me.

17:57:13 [Morbus]

its your birthday!

17:57:25 [sbp]

it's his birthday?

17:57:40 [redmonk]

huh?

17:57:46 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

17:57:57 [Morbus]

you've never heard that stupid "go me, it's my birthday, go me!"

17:57:59 [Morbus]

?

17:58:09 [redmonk]

<gary coleman>watchu talkin aboot morbus</gary coleman>

17:58:20 [redmonk]

nope

17:58:26 [Morbus]

i've been watching diff'rent strokes recently.

17:58:28 [sbp]

aha, I have

17:58:30 [Morbus]

on the NeeeEWW TNN.

17:58:38 [sbp]

Gotta run]

17:58:41 [sbp]

er...

17:58:42 [sbp]

Gotta run

18:03:45 [Morbus]

ooh.

18:03:49 [Morbus]

revised red primer.

18:03:54 [Morbus]

er, rdf primer.

18:04:19 [deltab]

oh, thought you were talking about paint for a moment

18:06:35 [Morbus]

heh, heh. well, I do publish mini painting articles over on gamegrene.com ;)

18:08:08 [walloper]

<lilo> Hi all. We seem to be having another rash of pr0n spambots....hint: almost all highlighting and color is filtered out when you make your channel +c

18:11:00 [Morbus]

* Morbus prints out a copy of Decepticons for his comic shop owner.

18:14:55 [walloper]

<lilo> Hi all. Network-wide open proxy recheck in progress. Please bear with us.

18:28:03 [walloper]

<lilo> Just for the record, having pr0n spambots is no excuse for responding with evangelical Christian spambots....let's show some self-control, folks 8)

18:28:22 [Morbus]

* Morbus starts coding a DevilBot

18:28:45 [Morbus]

control my foot.

18:29:23 [bitsko]

bitsko (~KenMacLeo@66.187.196.132) has joined #swhack

18:36:27 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

18:43:22 [AaronSw]

lol @ "having pr0n spambots is no excuse for responding with evangelical Christian spambots"

18:43:36 [bitsko]

heh

18:46:48 [AaronSw]

The Wild Party is great: "Studio; Bedroom; Bath; Kitchenette; Furnished like a third act passion set: Oriental; Sentimenta; They owed two months on the rental. Pink cushions, Blue cushions: overlaid; With silk: with lace: with gold brocade. These lay propped up on a double bed / That was covered with a Far East tapestry spread."

18:50:50 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: no spam bots please; and no chinese -- our very own Ash is enough disease

18:51:03 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: no spam bots please; and no chinese -- Morbus and Ash enough disease

18:51:06 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: no spam bots please; and no chinese -- Morbus and Ash are enough disease

18:51:26 [jillzilla]

no chinese!

18:51:29 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla sulks.

18:52:09 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: no spam bots please; and no chinese -- Morbus and Ash provide enough disease

18:52:19 [AaronSw]

hmph, got a better rime?

18:52:31 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla covers AaronSw in frost.

18:52:55 [AaronSw]

frost?

18:53:20 [jillzilla]

rime.

18:53:22 [AaronSw]

oh, sense 2

18:53:24 [jillzilla]

.wb rime

18:53:27 [davb]

davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0rc1/20020417]")

18:53:30 [AaronSw]

it's .wn

18:53:37 [jillzilla]

.oh bugger

18:53:40 [AaronSw]

heh

18:54:15 [davb]

davb (~chatzilla@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #swhack

18:55:20 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: the computers freeze, the spambots wheeze and meanwhile jill will speak chinese.

18:55:46 [rook]

rook (kmnguyen@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu) has joined #swhack

18:56:27 [Morbus]

Morbus (~morbus@63.173.138.23) has joined #swhack

18:57:15 [AaronSw]

spam: "Do you or anyone you know have a suspended DRIVERS LICENSE?" I don't even have a real driver's license.

18:57:25 [Morbus]

AaronSw, or sbp: what does @@ signify in the RDF Primer?

18:57:27 [Morbus]

[[[

18:57:29 [Morbus]

@@In particular, we are still processing comments received on the previous version, so this version does not reflect all the changes that might be made based on those comments.@@

18:57:32 [Morbus]

]]]

18:57:39 [jillzilla]

must...not...fuck...with...quote...deely...

18:57:51 [AaronSw]

see http://purl.org/net/@@

18:58:00 [AaronSw]

it signifies an open issue, something to be done

18:58:14 [Morbus]

ah.

18:58:20 [AaronSw]

jillzilla, who?

18:59:00 [Morbus]

thanks

18:59:29 [bitsko]

I always used XXX, until I read that some site blockers use that to block traffic ;)

18:59:38 [AaronSw]

apr2002devtools: morbus, no

18:59:48 [Morbus]

i got my mail filtered due to my signature, which talked about vulcan porn.

18:59:53 [bitsko]

heh

18:59:53 [Morbus]

i had to change it to pr0n.

19:00:34 [bitsko]

I'm amazed out how far "pr0n" has grown out of geek usage

19:00:44 [AaronSw]

ooh, jillfriend

19:00:46 [jillzilla]

has it? where?

19:00:53 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is reading logs

19:01:01 [quasi]

* quasi attaches a txt.exe when he doesn't want mail to arrive ;)

19:01:22 [bitsko]

I've seen it appear in non-geekish web articles and in seemingly non-geek conversations

19:01:31 [jillzilla]

Wow.

19:02:08 [bitsko]

I know how it happens, as I saw my wife use it in an email to my brother after I used it in chat to her

19:02:27 [Morbus]

meme! <G>

19:02:49 [bitsko]

oh no! not the memetic inquisition!

19:03:46 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

19:04:01 [Morbus]

i got yelled at about being a meme nazi on my "How I Learned" piece.

19:04:11 [Morbus]

the guy was calling me a poser or something for not mentioning Strangelove.

19:04:14 [Morbus]

it was ... surreal.

19:04:38 [bitsko]

I always love people arguing "against memes" :)

19:04:49 [bitsko]

quick! stop thinking!

19:04:55 [AaronSw]

yeah, that's great

19:05:07 [AaronSw]

the memes! they're using us as hosts!

19:05:10 [AaronSw]

we must KILL THEM

19:05:25 [Morbus]

bitsko, AaronSw: http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q2/030172.html

19:06:02 [AaronSw]

Morbus, hellllllo! it's Monkey Master and Prince Regent of San Francisco

19:06:11 [bitsko]

heh

19:06:20 [Morbus]

:)

19:06:54 [AaronSw]

aha, so that's where all those readers are coming from: simonstl

19:06:54 [sbp]

* sbp catches up on logs

19:07:16 [sbp]

heh @ * Morbus prints out a copy of Decepticons for his comic shop owner.

19:07:38 [Morbus]

she'll love it. i've been going there for about 15 years now.

19:08:10 [sbp]

lol @ <jillzilla> must...not...fuck...with...quote...deely...

19:08:27 [jillzilla]

it was strenuous.

19:08:28 [AaronSw]

Hm, I was not expecting the chomic shop owner to be a she.

19:08:39 [AaronSw]

err comic

19:08:41 [Morbus]

yeah, not many people would, AaronSw :)

19:09:03 [Morbus]

she rocks, though.

19:09:24 [sbp]

sexism reigns high!

19:09:33 [jillzilla]

ROWR!

19:09:37 [Morbus]

whoo hoo!

19:09:50 [AaronSw]

sexism is a jill keyword.

19:10:04 [redmonk]

* redmonk reboots

19:10:05 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit ("cya")

19:10:11 [Morbus]

i think jill's sexist. she still hasn't sent me that mp3. which is an obvious sleight to my manhood.

19:10:22 [jillzilla]

so obviously a very small slight.

19:10:26 [sbp]

heh, heh

19:10:26 [sbp]

Hmm... what a great idea!

19:10:26 [sbp]

Aaron, you're a genius

19:10:32 [AaronSw]

what? what?

19:11:15 [sbp]

lol

19:11:20 [sbp]

* sbp has a cunning plan

19:11:29 [Morbus]

* Morbus has a punning clan

19:11:31 [Morbus]

bwahahahaha

19:11:43 [AaronSw]

what? what?

19:11:44 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla pins a tail on sbp's plan and calls it a weasel.

19:12:21 [AaronSw]

Ugh, work, work, work...

19:13:51 [sbp]

lol, Jill

19:14:49 [sbp]

here we go:-

19:14:50 [sbp]

[[[

19:14:52 [sbp]

--

19:15:05 [sbp]

--

19:15:10 [sbp]

]]]

19:15:18 [Morbus]

heheheheh.

19:15:23 [AaronSw]

ah, this was the plan?

19:15:28 [sbp]

'twas

19:15:33 [AaronSw]

clever

19:15:39 [Morbus]

cleaver?

19:15:49 [sbp]

I started to download the .tgz, and then realised that fecking about with my local logs would be a bit quickerish

19:16:06 [jillzilla]

note to self: sbp likes ROWRs.

19:16:18 [sbp]

Aaron: can you split the logs by year, please?

19:16:22 [sbp]

heh, heh

19:16:27 [AaronSw]

split them how?

19:16:39 [AaronSw]

split the tgz by year?

19:16:45 [jillzilla]

by nick!

19:16:59 [quasi]

* quasi just got his new Larousse Gastronomique delivered - damn it looks good :)

19:17:03 [sbp]

have like textlogs2001.tgz, etc.

19:17:11 [AaronSw]

ah

19:17:14 [jillzilla]

Ooh, Larousse Gastronomique...

19:17:24 [Morbus]

.google Larousse Gastronomique

19:17:28 [xena]

Larousse Gastronomique: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0600602354/theguildoffoodwr/%20

19:17:41 [sbp]

heh, nice %20

19:17:50 [Morbus]

quasi: cook for me, and i'll have your child.

19:18:03 [Morbus]

yes, behind this manly nick is a womb for rent.

19:18:14 [AaronSw]

ahem

19:18:15 [sbp]

* sbp wonders where he got it from

19:18:20 [sbp]

actually, I don't wanna know

19:18:25 [jillzilla]

Morbus: Give it back.

19:18:30 [sbp]

lol

19:18:40 [Morbus]

sbp: i was gonna say big titted woman again, but 'twas repetitive, so...

19:18:48 [sbp]

Homer: Too much infor*mat*ion!

19:18:55 [Morbus]

and then the room for rent assoc. was just too good to pass up.

19:19:14 [sbp]

* sbp applauds somewhat

19:19:37 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla pictures sbp applauding with one hand.

19:19:51 [Morbus]

* Morbus pictures jillzilla bound by one hand.

19:20:03 [sbp]

as in, what's the sound of one hand applauding? heh, heh

19:20:23 [sbp]

koans are so great

19:20:23 [quasi]

* quasi runs back to his cookbook and starts contemplating where to begin tomorrow ;)

19:20:24 [Morbus]

we should talk in jeopardy form for the next time minutes.

19:20:42 [jillzilla]

oooh, jeopardy!

19:20:53 [sbp]

we *so* don't have Jeopardy over here

19:20:55 [Morbus]

what is a popular game show?

19:21:01 [Morbus]

what is a depravation of entertainment?

19:21:43 [Seth]

Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

19:21:45 [AaronSw]

A: "the archives are being generated" Q: What is AaronSw going to say to sbp?

19:22:03 [AaronSw]

Ah, reminds me of the alt.fan.hofstadter FAQ

19:22:31 [Morbus]

A: "things I want to give to jill" Q: two handcuffs, a white handkerchief, and a feather

19:22:33 [AaronSw]

Q: What is the most popular question on a.f.h and its answer?

19:22:33 [AaronSw]

A: What is the most popular question on a.f.h. and its answer? What is the most [...]

19:22:43 [AaronSw]

um, try that again Morbus

19:23:00 [Morbus]

Er, yeah, you're right.

19:23:05 [Morbus]

jeez, it got me so excited, i lost my form.

19:23:41 [sbp]

heh, heh

19:29:16 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw regenerates the textlogs tgzs

19:30:01 [sbp]

Gotta run

19:47:47 [Morbus]

AaronSw: clueless question about RDF.

19:47:49 [rook]

rook has quit (Remote closed the connection)

19:48:17 [AaronSw]

go ahead

19:48:25 [Morbus]

phone just rang. hold on.

19:48:45 [quasi]

Morbus: just pull the plug ;)

19:50:06 [Morbus]

[[[

19:50:17 [Morbus]

For instance, instead of identifying the creator of the Web page in our first example by the string "John Smith", we've assigned him a URI, in this case (using a URI based on his employee number) http://www.example.org/staffid/85740 . An advantage of using a URI in this case is that we can be more precise in our identification. That is, the creator of the page isn't the string "John Smith'', or any one of the thousands of people having "John Smith" as their n

19:50:19 [Morbus]

]]]

19:50:27 [Morbus]

what's to stop someone from writing a document with the same unique URI?

19:50:39 [Morbus]

er, rather, using the same unique URI in a document.

19:50:53 [Morbus]

i mean, at least with John Smith, you inbred know they'll be a million others.

19:51:05 [Morbus]

and an assigned uniqueID in a DB you know will be unique to that table and application.

19:51:09 [AaronSw]

I'm not sure I follow you...

19:51:22 [AaronSw]

example.org gets to define who http://www.example.org/staffid/85740 is

19:51:36 [Morbus]

right.

19:51:39 [AaronSw]

so they mean it identifies their employee, whose name happens to be John Smith

19:51:44 [Morbus]

but i'm not seeing anywhere in the docs that say URI should be based around your domain name, or whatever.

19:51:54 [Morbus]

so what's to stop me from writing something that uses http://www.example.org/staffid/85740

19:52:11 [AaronSw]

Er, well, it's rude, like camping out on someone's lawn.

19:52:15 [Morbus]

i mean, maybe i've created a new type of triffid called a staffic.

19:52:21 [Morbus]

and this is variant 85740.

19:52:28 [Morbus]

well, yeah, I know it's rude.

19:52:32 [AaronSw]

right, but you don't own example.org

19:52:43 [Morbus]

so, URI's HAVE to be disobey.com for me?

19:52:47 [AaronSw]

so when someone goes a-knocking to example.org to ask them what it means

19:52:51 [AaronSw]

they'll say it means John Smith

19:53:04 [AaronSw]

if you say it's some weird triffid no one will believe you

19:53:15 [AaronSw]

just like if you said microsoft.is.the.devil.com is the website for microsoft

19:53:17 [Morbus]

well, what about the various things at purl.org? who owns them?

19:53:28 [AaronSw]

purl.org rents them out to web users

19:53:33 [Morbus]

what about geocities?

19:53:35 [AaronSw]

well, not rents, gives them away

19:53:38 [AaronSw]

same thing

19:53:41 [Morbus]

say I URI to geocities.com/5613/#me

19:53:44 [Morbus]

and then my account expires.

19:53:54 [Morbus]

what happens to that unique ID if someone else gets that address?

19:54:03 [AaronSw]

does geocities reuse account numbers? ugh, that sucks, they shouldn't do that

19:54:18 [Morbus]

i'm not really sure, but i'm playing devil's advocate right now.

19:54:30 [AaronSw]

well, all these problems are in the Web too, but we live thru them

19:54:48 [AaronSw]

i could link to christianity today at geocities and it could be replaced with a satanism site

19:55:03 [AaronSw]

that's why people buy domain names, and use PURLs. they try to get persistence

19:55:22 [Morbus]

but shouldn't a unique ID have built in persisitance?

19:55:31 [Morbus]

like one assigned in a DB?

19:55:36 [Morbus]

or an md5, or what have you?

19:55:38 [AaronSw]

sure, and there are URIs to do that

19:55:50 [AaronSw]

there are UUID URIs and MD5 URIs and public-key URIs for these reasons

19:56:04 [AaronSw]

and you can use those if you think your website won't be persistent

19:56:15 [AaronSw]

and tags, those are good too

19:56:22 [AaronSw]

they combine a domain name or email address with a date

19:56:39 [AaronSw]

since only one person owns a domain name each day, most of the time, it's pretty safe

19:57:00 [Morbus]

so, persistance is really a choice left up to the creator of the URI. is there an... i guess. i dunno.

19:57:20 [Morbus]

the dumb one in me says "prior knowledge of domain ownership proves its easier for trust to be misplaced, by hijacking, etc."

19:57:46 [Morbus]

i guess I dunno how to state my unease in non-refutable terms.

19:57:55 [AaronSw]

if you're really paranoid, you can use public-key URIs

19:58:06 [Morbus]

like?

19:58:20 [AaronSw]

esl:d89djme8ewkmew89d78dfjJDFdJSud8jd&Sd:someName

19:58:30 [AaronSw]

(they're a little longer, but you get the idea)

19:58:58 [Morbus]

mmkay.

19:59:04 [Morbus]

thanks.

19:59:07 [Morbus]

* Morbus goes back to reading.

19:59:12 [AaronSw]

the long part is a digitally signed version of 'someName'

19:59:24 [AaronSw]

so you know sbp has authorized that na,e

19:59:30 [Morbus]

* Morbus nods.

19:59:50 [AaronSw]

Good questions, though. It's something URI people argue about a lot. ;-)

19:59:56 [Morbus]

:)

20:00:15 [sbp]

* sbp waves

20:00:20 [sbp]

* sbp catches up

20:00:23 [Morbus]

jeez, that was a quick half-hour.

20:02:55 [Morbus]

you know, i never noticed that left aligned, vertical "working draft" thing until just now. that's nice.

20:03:08 [AaronSw]

yeah, it's cool

20:03:08 [sbp]

ah, CSS watermarks

20:06:49 [Morbus]

another question.

20:07:24 [Morbus]

ok. this URI thing. it's used as a unique identifier, that's great. is it ever used as a ... destination for more information within the program?

20:07:33 [Morbus]

like, ok.

20:07:49 [Morbus]

in the draft in 2.3, there's an N-Triples example.

20:08:01 [sbp]

(what spec. are we reading?)

20:08:03 [Morbus]

I don't find the N-Triples example very appeasing because it means very little to be.

20:08:06 [Morbus]

http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-primer/

20:08:09 [Morbus]

very little to me.

20:08:10 [sbp]

(ah)

20:08:20 [AaronSw]

heh, no wonder that quote was familiar. I wrote it.

20:08:35 [Morbus]

i mean, I can make an assumption only because the URI has "creation-date" in it.

20:08:43 [sbp]

those aren't actually N-Triples, BTW

20:08:46 [Morbus]

i can make an assumption that the before describes the after with the creation-date.

20:08:51 [Morbus]

(mmkay. whatever. still.)

20:08:52 [sbp]

since they have line breaks peppered through them...

20:08:52 [AaronSw]

Yeah, the reason people use (relatively-non-persistent) HTTP URIs is so you can get back data about the thing

20:09:04 [Morbus]

ok. but isn't that a lot of extra network traffic?

20:09:25 [AaronSw]

You don't _need_ to.

20:09:30 [Morbus]

if one of the principles of the unique URI is stop confusion from "creator" and "askjhdak", what does the destination URI have to contain?

20:09:34 [sbp]

it depends on why you want to dereference the HTTP URI in the first place

20:09:38 [Morbus]

english? unicode? german?

20:09:41 [AaronSw]

sbp, i'm gonna send that in as a comment

20:09:47 [Morbus]

how does the destination data differ anymore from "creator" and "kjshfdkjhf"

20:09:47 [sbp]

O.K.

20:10:04 [sbp]

well, you might have a bit of RDF there making some assertion about the term

20:10:24 [sbp]

usually, when you GET from that URI, you'll take what you get back as being definitive

20:10:37 [sbp]

in fact, it may not be - but you can use digsig etc. for added security

20:10:47 [Morbus]

right, but isn't that a lot of network traffic?

20:10:57 [Morbus]

especially when the data within has to mean something to the program?

20:11:09 [sbp]

why is it any worse than regular Web traffic?

20:11:13 [Morbus]

in which case, the program could remove the network traffic by including the destination data within the actual document its looking at.

20:11:21 [sbp]

don't forget, you can cache

20:11:25 [Morbus]

well, ok. say i have an rss 1.0.

20:11:33 [Morbus]

well, wait. no, don't say that.

20:11:38 [sbp]

heh, heh

20:11:39 [Morbus]

say I have an XML document that doesn't use RDF.

20:11:55 [Morbus]

my program knows all about the elements and what they do. it has a <creator> and so forth.

20:12:02 [sbp]

technically, any XML document can be converted to an infoset-in-RDF instance...

20:12:03 [Morbus]

it knows what <creator> is supposed to do.

20:12:16 [AaronSw]

sbp, ssssh!

20:12:30 [Morbus]

now, the little rdf-primer suggests that "And they would to an English-speaking person reading it, or to a program specifically written to interpret this vocabulary. However, there is no built-in meaning here."

20:12:31 [AaronSw]

visiting the page over the network is simply an _option_ if you want to find out _more_ than what's in the document you're reading. the document you're reading is free to contain that info if it wants to

20:12:56 [AaronSw]

assumedly your software would have the meaning of creator built into it, and wouldn't do any network opeariotns

20:13:22 [Morbus]

AaronSw: ok, but how does "<http://www.example.org/terms/creation-date>", in the not-really-N-Triples example tell me more than <creator>? how is it any different from "<http://www.example.org/terms/dlfhsdlkfj-date>"?

20:13:42 [sbp]

it doesn't and isn't - necessarily

20:13:49 [AaronSw]

it's not any different, it's an arbitrary URI. the key is in the software that uses it

20:13:49 [Morbus]

AaronSw: so technically, <creator rdf:creator="http://www.example.org/terms/creation-date"> is "OK"?

20:13:51 [sbp]

but it's a lot easier to say things about it, because it's a URI

20:14:09 [AaronSw]

um, that xml really confused me morb

20:14:12 [sbp]

that's a wacky unclosed PO pair in XML RDF...

20:14:14 [AaronSw]

what're you trying to say there?

20:14:20 [Morbus]

heh.

20:14:21 [Morbus]

ok.

20:14:57 [Morbus]

um... how to say this, how to say this.

20:15:08 [Morbus]

"And they would to an English-speaking person reading it, or to a program specifically written to interpret this vocabulary. However, there is no built-in meaning here."

20:15:14 [Morbus]

[[[

20:15:23 [Morbus]

me speaking, uninterrupted:

20:15:42 [Morbus]

where is the built in meaning to "http://www.example.org/terms/creation-date"?

20:15:56 [Morbus]

if the built in meaning COULD be in the destination data

20:16:03 [Morbus]

then what should the destinatation data look like?

20:16:09 [Morbus]

would it also be not-really-NTriples?

20:16:14 [Morbus]

would it be <creator> stuff?

20:16:16 [sbp]

well, it's always grounded in terms of application semantics at some point

20:16:19 [Morbus]

what would/could it be?

20:16:20 [Morbus]

]]]

20:16:20 [sbp]

or documentation, of course...

20:16:22 [Morbus]

respect the deelay.

20:16:24 [AaronSw]

[[[

20:16:29 [AaronSw]

heh, i like this write lock thing

20:16:30 [sbp]

oops, didn't notice the deeley

20:16:32 [Morbus]

:)

20:16:34 [AaronSw]

hey!

20:16:37 [AaronSw]

get out of my quote!

20:16:37 [sbp]

but they're so fake

20:16:43 [sbp]

you're typing!

20:16:48 [AaronSw]

don't make me resort to moderation

20:16:51 [sbp]

you're not quoting anyone!

20:16:57 [sbp]

don't *abuse* the quote deeley!

20:17:06 [AaronSw]

that's better

20:17:13 [sbp]

it is indeed

20:17:14 [AaronSw]

;-)

20:17:23 [AaronSw]

so to answer morbus' question

20:18:08 [AaronSw]

the document could contain html for humans

20:18:12 [AaronSw]

or rdf for machines

20:18:15 [AaronSw]

the terms could be defined in a spec

20:18:16 [AaronSw]

or a manual

20:18:17 [AaronSw]

or anything

20:18:20 [AaronSw]

it's just like XML

20:18:23 [AaronSw]

who defines what <rss> means?

20:18:29 [AaronSw]

it could be <jkd98f98fd> for all the machine cares

20:18:49 [AaronSw]

but we have machines that understand the rss signal

20:18:52 [AaronSw]

they should understand URIs similarly

20:19:05 [AaronSw]

oops

20:19:09 [AaronSw]

]]]

20:19:13 [Morbus]

right. ok. but...

20:19:21 [AaronSw]

this reminds me of the talking stick in 5th grade

20:19:22 [Morbus]

hmm.

20:19:25 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

20:19:27 [Morbus]

i see what you're saying.

20:19:53 [AaronSw]

i apologize for abusing the op privs there, but it was getting annoying

20:20:03 [Morbus]

i just don't like the idea that in this not-really-N-Triples example, if "creation-date" was called "asjlhasdjhad", I'd have no flipping clue what I was reading. I'd have to go to a possible non-existant URI to find out.

20:20:14 [Morbus]

it makes XML not readable to humans.

20:20:29 [AaronSw]

there's no difference between RDF uris and xml things in that sense

20:20:52 [Morbus]

true.

20:20:58 [AaronSw]

does anyone name their terms <ajds89ds90d> and make you read the spec to figure out what it means (yes, XML schema, but that's another matter...)

20:21:08 [sbp]

RDF URIs? heh

20:21:31 [Morbus]

well, in the not-really-N-Triples example, what about: <http://www.example.org/index.html>

20:21:37 [Morbus]

how do I know what that is?

20:21:49 [AaronSw]

well, they're describing it in the example

20:21:58 [sbp]

"4.9 Do not assume that element or attribute names provide any information about element semantics." - http://www.w3.org/TR/xag

20:22:00 [AaronSw]

if you don't know what it is, why do you even care about the triples...

20:22:20 [AaronSw]

I mean, do you ask your RSS processor what the URI for each news story means?

20:22:41 [Morbus]

well, the rSS processor identifies each URI of teh news story as a link.

20:22:47 [Morbus]

in this case, i'm not being told that.

20:23:55 [AaronSw]

ok, well maybe it'd be a good idea if they told you that...

20:24:02 [Morbus]

[[[

20:24:03 [Morbus]

However, if example.org writes http://www.example.org/terms/name for its "name" property, and the other person writes http://www.example.org/geneology/terms/name for hers, we can keep straight the fact that there are distinct properties involved (even if a program can't automatically determine the distinct meanings).

20:24:04 [Morbus]

]]]

20:24:11 [Morbus]

s/if a program/if a human/

20:24:11 [Morbus]

?

20:24:49 [AaronSw]

what's the question?

20:24:51 [davb]

they are different. it doesn't know WHY they are. or care.

20:24:53 [sbp]

how would a human automatically determine anything?

20:26:01 [sbp]

but right... the only way you can tell - without any extra information - if one URI denotes the same thing as another is by doing URI equivalence test (i.e. checking if one URI is the same as another)

20:26:54 [sbp]

if you have extra information, perhaps a DAML equivalence relationship between the two (And if your program recognizes the DAML semantics), then the program will know that they're equivalent

20:27:10 [davb]

davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0rc1/20020417]")

20:27:25 [AaronSw]

heh:

20:27:25 [AaronSw]

<dnm> I subscribe to the Words of Wisdom from The ODB.

20:27:25 [AaronSw]

<stevej> your object database is also a messiah? cool.

20:29:41 [sbp]

well, I'm off to watch Blackadder and Frasier

20:29:43 [sbp]

Gotta run

20:30:26 [Morbus]

* Morbus continues to read rdf-primer

20:30:37 [Seth]

aaron, maybe line breaks should be allwed in N-Triples ... an what does the 'N' in 'N-Triples' stand for ?

20:30:57 [AaronSw]

it stands for Nothing

20:31:13 [Seth]

i doubt that

20:35:56 [Morbus]

AaronSw: instead of using an ampheta: namespace for the rss 1.0 channel archives (remember that disc.?), I was thinking of using a reader: one instead, and writing up a draft of it.

20:36:10 [AaronSw]

cool!

20:36:15 [Morbus]

does that sound better?

20:36:21 [Morbus]

is reader: a good choice?

20:36:23 [AaronSw]

yeah

20:36:26 [AaronSw]

hm

20:36:35 [Morbus]

i was thinking of client: too.

20:36:37 [AaronSw]

what were the attributes again?

20:37:11 [Morbus]

they weren't really hashed out, but i need a way to unqiuely identify <item>s and to then have a "show item?" boolean.

20:37:30 [Morbus]

perhaps a date downloaded or stored, but that could be down with dc:

20:37:36 [AaronSw]

client or local might be good.

20:38:06 [Morbus]

i prefer client over local.

20:38:11 [Morbus]

i'm still a ways off from that.

20:38:20 [Morbus]

from doing that code, rather, but its still been bouncing around in my head.

20:45:03 [AaronSw]

cool

20:45:28 [Ash]

dude

20:45:30 [Ash]

this is so funny

20:45:45 [Ash]

<UserLand> TEH NEW SERVAR HAES TEH WARM1!@% O NOE!@%11

20:46:15 [Morbus]

oh mab,.

20:46:19 [Ash]

<UserLand> HOW DID ET GET TEH INFECTAD, I DNOT KNOE!@%$11

20:46:19 [Morbus]

that's funny shit.

20:46:21 [Ash]

I'm dying

20:46:23 [Ash]

hahahahahahahaha

20:46:27 [Ash]

MORBAS

20:49:47 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

20:49:56 [Morbus]

wb

20:50:07 [AaronSw]

poor dave

20:50:14 [AaronSw]

et al

20:50:19 [redmonk]

thx

20:50:20 [Morbus]

* Morbus nods.

20:50:29 [redmonk]

no kidding

20:50:38 [Morbus]

i'm not a fan of dave, but this is too much (tm).

20:50:39 [redmonk]

@ http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/05/03#l7da93a89cdfa3e65e19b10c21760101e

20:50:49 [redmonk]

oh, chumpy?

20:50:56 [Morbus]

too much in the sense of "man, that sucks", not "dave's a moron".

20:50:59 [redmonk]

hey, chumpster!

20:51:01 [redmonk]

luser!

20:51:08 [redmonk]

(speaking to the bot)

20:51:23 [redmonk]

ugh

20:51:24 [AaronSw]

give it a sec

20:51:24 [chumpy]

chumpy has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

20:51:26 [AaronSw]

wow

20:51:29 [AaronSw]

that's new

20:51:35 [redmonk]

i killed chumpy!

20:51:41 [Morbus]

you bastard!

20:51:42 [redmonk]

* redmonk sobs

20:52:15 [redmonk]

poor chumpy

20:52:52 [AaronSw]

i guess this means i have to go rescue him again

20:53:05 [redmonk]

so how in the hell does one get the same virus in two consecutive linux boxes?

20:53:13 [AaronSw]

it's a worm

20:53:21 [AaronSw]

it looks for otherboxes on the same subnet to infect

20:53:24 [Morbus]

the same way normal win machines on a network get reinfected.

20:53:28 [Morbus]

code red, all the crap.

20:53:33 [quasi]

redmonk: how in the hell does one get virus on one linux box?

20:53:37 [redmonk]

ah, yes

20:53:37 [AaronSw]

it's like, ooh, new machine, i'll infect it!

20:53:39 [Morbus]

you've gotta do everything offline, and fix the hole offline.

20:53:39 [redmonk]

lol

20:53:54 [Ash]

Well, I'd hardly say "poor Dave"

20:54:03 [Ash]

I'd say "Poor UserLand for having clueless employees"

20:54:12 [Ash]

Since this sort of thing is *easily* preventable.

20:54:14 [redmonk]

UserLand *is* Dave

20:54:16 [redmonk]

heh

20:54:18 [redmonk]

yeah

20:54:28 [Morbus]

when MS screwed up the MSN servers, I felt sad for all the people I couldn't talk to.

20:54:33 [Ash]

They just don't have anyone that knows *ANYTHING* about running internet servers (or servers at all)

20:54:35 [Morbus]

i didn't necessarily blame bill gates.

20:54:40 [Ash]

redmonk: Indeed.

20:55:01 [redmonk]

morbus: yeah. i'm just bummed i can't use blgotracker

20:55:11 [Morbus]

not that I've ever used MSN, but you get my point ;)

20:55:40 [redmonk]

http://www.redmonk.net/2002/05/03#item1196

20:55:54 [redmonk]

plesh anyone?

20:55:58 [redmonk]

*sigh*

20:56:42 [Morbus]

so, is jabber vaporware or what?

20:57:09 [Ash]

bitsko: Actually I think it's just incompetent admins.

20:57:19 [Ash]

Which can be far more dangerous than |33+ h@X0rz

20:57:23 [Morbus]

respect the #.

20:57:29 [Ash]

Oh oops.

20:57:29 [chumpy]

chumpy (nobody@xd84b5c5a.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

20:57:30 [AaronSw]

[OLM]

20:57:38 [Ash]

I just need to get my client to do that automatically on everything.

20:57:52 [AaronSw]

um, wrong answer

20:58:02 [AaronSw]

oh wait, it's ash. sorry

20:58:04 [AaronSw]

i take it back

20:58:04 [Morbus]

yeah, AaronSw will get pissed at you if you do everything in #.

20:58:06 [Ash]

HEY

20:58:08 [Ash]

* Ash kicks AaronSw

20:58:12 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw ducks

20:58:15 [Ash]

umm

20:58:15 [AaronSw]

err jumps

20:58:19 [Morbus]

hehehe

20:58:19 [Ash]

How do you duck from a kick? lol

20:58:27 [AaronSw]

hm, maybe dodges sideways

20:58:29 [Ash]

Luckily that was a high kick so I got you in the air

20:58:36 [AaronSw]

ah, phew

20:58:40 [Ash]

* Ash watches AaronSw fall to the ground, shrieking in pain

20:58:41 [quasi]

duck and cover?

20:58:50 [Morbus]

goose and gandeR?

20:59:00 [Ash]

* Ash tears the air conditioning unit out of the wall tosses it at AaronSw

20:59:09 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw dodges

20:59:10 [Morbus]

i hate when my shift finger is faster than my other.

20:59:14 [Ash]

High Fidelity-style

20:59:15 [Ash]

hehe

20:59:17 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit (Remote closed the connection)

20:59:27 [AaronSw]

guess he didn't want to get hurt

20:59:36 [Ash]

HULK ANGRY

20:59:37 [Ash]

hehe

20:59:45 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw shurgs and throws something large at ash

21:00:14 [bitsko]

I was presuming someone was hacking in to reinfect, but (reading back in the log), ya, it could just as easily been a restore that did it

21:00:17 [Morbus]

* Morbus finishes rdf-primer

21:01:58 [Ash]

;-)

21:02:03 [Ash]

[OLM]

21:02:38 [Ash]

What's the OLM acronym mean anyway?

21:02:40 [Ash]

Heh.

21:03:01 [Ash]

It means "off list mumblings"

21:03:04 [Ash]

hehe

21:08:59 [Morbus]

heh, looks like anil pulled a Userland: http://www.dashes.com/anil/index.php?nynmnf.php

21:09:10 [Ash]

pulled a userland

21:09:11 [Ash]

rotfl

21:09:55 [deus_x]

* deus_x has bees in his hair.

21:10:43 [Ash]

I have bees in my hair too!

21:10:43 [rik]

he's covered in bees!

21:10:45 [Ash]

It's the in thing baby

21:10:59 [Ash]

* Ash decides to make autobots that look like bees

21:11:11 [Ash]

* Ash notes that the autobot bees are highly unstable

21:11:14 [Ash]

* Ash lets them out anyway

21:11:26 [quasi]

* quasi has beer on his mind - does that count? ;)

21:11:37 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

21:11:42 [Morbus]

poor quasi feels left out.

21:11:44 [Ash]

Morbus, I love the autobots story.

21:11:49 [Ash]

btw.

21:11:52 [Morbus]

thanks :)

21:11:57 [Ash]

I think it's great that you got it published up there.

21:11:59 [Ash]

:)

21:12:10 [Morbus]

selfpublished really, with their approval.

21:12:16 [Ash]

I just threw all the stupid bezels off my servers

21:12:19 [Ash]

WOOHOO

21:12:19 [Ash]

die dell die!

21:12:35 [quasi]

this damn gambrinus light makes me drunk in no time at all ;)

21:12:41 [Ash]

We have 7 of those little 1U dell servers, and they all had those HUGE gray metal bezels

21:12:42 [Ash]

insane

21:14:49 [syn|ack]

syn|ack (~synack@210-86-61-13.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack

21:15:10 [syn|ack]

morning folks

21:15:39 [quasi]

good night syn|ack

21:17:11 [Morbus]

evening syn|ack

21:18:29 [bitsko]

aren't the RDFig daily chumps in RSS?

21:20:02 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla dances.

21:20:11 [AaronSw]

bitsko, yes

21:20:17 [AaronSw]

hey jill. what's up?

21:20:31 [jillzilla]

hey. I had a nice lunch, that's all.

21:20:47 [bitsko]

http://rss.benhammersley.com/archives/000024.html#000024

21:21:18 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw responds

21:22:13 [Morbus]

according to ben, amphetadesk is chapter 9 in his book

21:22:27 [Ash]

* Ash is chapter 10

21:22:32 [Ash]

jillzilla!

21:22:37 [Ash]

* Ash gives jillzilla a tomato

21:22:40 [deus_x]

* deus_x is being gradually drawn back to the AmphetaDesk side of the force.

21:22:53 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla cuts the tomato into slices and sprinkles it with salt. Thanks!

21:22:58 [Morbus]

heh, heh. why, deus_x?

21:23:10 [Morbus]

you're chapter 10, ash? for what?

21:23:31 [deus_x]

Morbus: Radio was/is neat and all, but I already have an OS.

21:23:41 [AaronSw]

emacs?

21:23:45 [deus_x]

And on top of running xemacs, well... it just seems gratuitous

21:23:47 [Ash]

Morbus: I was joking.

21:23:49 [deus_x]

heehee

21:23:50 [Ash]

Hehehe.

21:23:57 [Morbus]

man, where the frel is my humor metre today?

21:24:05 [Ash]

You're welcome, jillzilla

21:24:14 [Ash]

xemacs is a great OS

21:24:15 [Ash]

fwoosh!

21:24:28 [deus_x]

And since I switched back to Ampheta, I seem to be catching things I didn't before, even with the same RSS channels.

21:24:46 [Morbus]

probably because ampheta doesn't autoexpire them ;)

21:24:57 [Morbus]

although it will, optionally, in the future.

21:25:40 [deus_x]

I still want to play with some slice & dice of channels though, and some better new item detection.

21:25:50 [deus_x]

(Than Radio that is)

21:25:54 [Ash]

So, is there an emacs frontend to amphetadesk yet Morbus?

21:26:18 [deus_x]

* deus_x ponders booting a Linux box up into xemacs

21:26:19 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

21:26:37 [Ash]

No, I was serious!

21:26:40 [Ash]

* Ash kicks Morbus

21:26:45 [Ash]

You could have it plug into gnus or something.

21:26:51 [Ash]

It would be sweet.

21:26:56 [Ash]

And by sweet I mean totally awesome

21:27:14 [deus_x]

What about totally outrageous?

21:27:57 [Ash]

deus_x: We're not talking about _Jem_ here.

21:28:10 [deus_x]

Ash: Thank you for catching that ref. :)

21:28:18 [Ash]

XEmacs doesn't wear pink star earrings that are hooked to some weird computer!

21:28:19 [Ash]

hehe

21:28:38 [Morbus]

i don't use emacs.

21:28:41 [Morbus]

code one yourself, bitch.

21:28:48 [Ash]

XEmacs is more like Moses from the Super Best Friends episode of South Park.

21:28:48 [Morbus]

er wait, wait until the next version of ampheta. it'll be easier than.

21:28:55 [Ash]

Morbus: OK!

21:29:08 [Ash]

I think it would be sweet to be able to read this stuff in newsgroup format.

21:29:43 [deus_x]

Ash: Cobble together your own copy of INN on a linux box and feed it RSS items?

21:29:43 [Morbus]

yeah, actually, did rss over usenet ever grow at all?

21:29:43 [deus_x]

That would be mildly disturbing, yet intriguing.

21:29:47 [Morbus]

that was talked about a year or so ago.

21:31:03 [quasi]

rss over nntp - why?

21:31:16 [Ash]

so you can have rss flamewars

21:31:18 [Ash]

duh

21:31:25 [Morbus]

i don't remember. i'm trying to recall where it was talked.

21:31:27 [deus_x]

quasi: Existing tools, sickness, all that.

21:31:35 [Ash]

.google rss over nntp

21:31:37 [xena]

rss over nntp: http://interconnected.org/notes/syndication.html

21:31:41 [Ash]

.google rss over nntp sucks

21:31:41 [xena]

rss over nntp sucks: http://www.isc.org/ml-archives/inn-workers/1996/06/msg00051.html

21:31:43 [quasi]

uh, like soap ;)

21:31:43 [deus_x]

Heehee

21:31:55 [Ash]

.google rss over nntp morbus

21:31:56 [syn|ack_]

syn|ack_ (~synack@210-86-61-13.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack

21:31:56 [xena]

rss over nntp morbus: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/2002_02.html

21:32:00 [Ash]

AH HA

21:32:25 [deus_x]

"RSS runs over Morbus via NNTP, News @ 11"

21:32:37 [quasi]

heh

21:32:55 [sbp]

* sbp waves

21:33:10 [Ash]

* Ash shoots sbp

21:33:13 [AaronSw]

i put up the server

21:33:21 [AaronSw]

for the rss-over-nntp stuff

21:33:25 [AaronSw]

didn't work out

21:33:39 [Ash]

yeah, AaronSw got flamed by dwiner

21:33:45 [Ash]

and thus ends another project

21:33:45 [Ash]

*g*

21:33:57 [Ash]

AaronSw: Didn't you get flamed by him about that?

21:34:01 [AaronSw]

unrelated that was

21:34:03 [Ash]

Ah.

21:34:12 [Ash]

dwiner's discussion group was such a crock

21:34:13 [Ash]

heh heh

21:34:26 [AaronSw]

that was DG-over-email

21:35:07 [icepick]

AaronSw: the only think I don't like about the web interface to this is that you don't have a link to the last day/next day

21:35:17 [icepick]

btw, what's with the #

21:35:23 [AaronSw]

web interface to what?

21:35:32 [AaronSw]

the # keeps comments out of the public logs

21:35:34 [icepick]

this http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/

21:35:47 [AaronSw]

yeah, it's a pain to write that in XSLT :(

21:35:58 [AaronSw]

maybe i'll write a python version

21:37:30 [sbp]

Grprmgprmgprmgpmh @ # abuse

21:37:30 [Morbus]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0%2c%2c4-2002200324%2c00.html

21:37:49 [Ash]

<Ash> # Oh that's right. I had forgotten.

21:37:49 [Ash]

<Ash> # He flamed a number of people that wanted to have non-editable

21:37:49 [Ash]

connections to his discussion group software

21:37:49 [Ash]

<Ash> # i.e. nntp, email, etc

21:37:53 [Ash]

THERE

21:37:56 [Ash]

YOU HAPPY NOW SBP?!?!?

21:37:57 [Ash]

hehe

21:37:59 [Ash]

;-)

21:38:06 [rik]

'cept the bots have recorded that now.

21:38:14 [Ash]

rik: Well that was the point.

21:38:47 [Ash]

<dwiner> Hey, don't do that! I can't go in and edit out mean things I say about people then!

21:39:12 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

21:39:13 [rik]

heh

21:39:32 [sbp]

Um... I meant in the logs, i.e. putting people's off-log comments in the logs earlier

21:39:48 [sbp]

it's one thing when you do it for your own comments, but entirely another when you do it to other people

21:40:16 [AaronSw]

sbp, wanna help design an HTML form for me?

21:40:30 [sbp]

sure...

21:40:32 [Ash]

sbp: Are you talking about me?

21:40:40 [Ash]

When did I post people's off log comments in the log?

21:40:53 [AaronSw]

wow, this guy used an 'unchecked' attribute... odd

21:41:00 [sbp]

the OLM definition, for example

21:41:12 [sbp]

not only that, but you regularly reply to off-log conversations on log

21:41:14 [sbp]

and it's a bit tiresome

21:41:17 [sbp]

<Ash> O I DONOT KNOE WHAT TEH # CHARAKETR SI! I THINK IT SI THE POUND!

21:41:19 [sbp]

:-)

21:41:25 [AaronSw]

ow

21:41:28 [AaronSw]

zing!

21:41:37 [Ash]

HA

21:41:48 [Ash]

sbp: Yeah, my bad. I wasn't thinking about it before I was responding.

21:41:56 [AaronSw]

OK, I've got a 32x32 logo, a checkbox, a label, a description and more info link. repeated 7 times... now i just need to figure out how to put them together.

21:41:57 [Ash]

I posted the OLM definition so it would be in the logs!

21:41:58 [Ash]

hehe

21:42:05 [AaronSw]

now, that was the joke!

21:42:09 [AaronSw]

err no

21:42:12 [Ash]

heh

21:43:34 [sbp]

heh, heh

21:43:46 [sbp]

well, rm does it unintentionally all of the time...

21:43:53 [Ash]

rm?

21:44:01 [sbp]

but when we're slandering people, we like to cover our track a bit

21:44:06 [sbp]

rm == redmonk

21:44:08 [Ash]

ah

21:44:20 [Ash]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

21:44:25 [Ash]

hehe

21:44:28 [AaronSw]

can you guys take this to another channel?

21:44:41 [AaronSw]

/j swhack-crimes-tribunal

21:44:41 [Ash]

AaronSw: We're discussing channel policies!

21:44:44 [Ash]

LOL

21:45:01 [Ash]

Okay, okay.. I'm osama bin laden.

21:45:06 [Ash]

Sorry for not telling you guys earlier :-(

21:45:13 [AaronSw]

Ah, that's OK.

21:45:21 [AaronSw]

We're an equal-opportunity-channel.

21:45:42 [Ash]

Sorry if I'm a little bit jumpy. It's dark in this cave.

21:46:08 [Ash]

I thought if I infiltrated the semantic web, I could bring jihad to the people of america!

21:46:10 [AaronSw]

"exclusive one-question osama interview! are you dead?"

21:46:29 [Ash]

Join me, my brothers! Throw off the american dictatorship!

21:46:30 [Ash]

hehe

21:48:40 [AaronSw]

sbp, does this make sense: <p><img src="xxx" align="left" width="32" height="32">

21:48:40 [AaronSw]

<input type="checkbox" name="xxx"><label for="xxx"><strong>Xxx:</strong> description here.</label>(<a href="xxx">More info...</a>)</p>

21:49:05 [sbp]

s%32"%32"/%

21:49:15 [sbp]

ugh, are you writing HTML or XHTML?

21:49:16 [syn|ack]

syn|ack has quit (Connection timed out)

21:49:18 [AaronSw]

um, translation?

21:49:20 [AaronSw]

XHTML

21:49:39 [AaronSw]

oops, left out a />

21:49:46 [syn|ack_]

syn|ack_ is now known as syn|ack

21:49:56 [Ash]

synack!

21:49:58 [sbp]

you left out one on the input as well

21:50:07 [AaronSw]

that's what i was referring to

21:50:13 [AaronSw]

ah, img

21:50:21 [Ash]

Has dwiner talked about shutting down editthispage anytime recently?

21:50:28 [AaronSw]

and the align="left" will go into a stylesheet

21:50:35 [Ash]

I remember him going on about it for about a week and then not talking about it anymore.

21:51:47 [quasi]

* quasi crawls to bed

21:51:54 [bitsko]

bye all

21:51:55 [bitsko]

bitsko has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")

21:52:02 [quasi]

bye

21:52:22 [AaronSw]

does label for need an id?

21:52:32 [Ash]

* Ash pokes #swhack

21:52:36 [sbp]

ow!

21:53:02 [Ash]

Oops, sorry sbp.

21:53:05 [Ash]

Respond to my query!

21:53:05 [Ash]

hehe

21:53:07 [sbp]

not sure, actually. I think it can refer to either

21:53:14 [sbp]

query? oh right...

21:53:17 [sbp]

sorry, dunno

21:53:21 [Ash]

Yeah I don't know either.

21:53:33 [Ash]

And I don't wanna hunt through back issues of scripting.com because it kills netscape

21:53:39 [Ash]

Well no worries.

21:53:43 [Ash]

* Ash keeps on truckin'!

21:53:57 [Ash]

I'll just have my editthispage site until that server gets a worm i guess

21:53:58 [Ash]

*g*

21:54:28 [Ash]

Anyone remember how to back up a manila site?

21:54:45 [quasi]

/Detach

22:02:02 [AaronSw]

is there anyway to align inline elements in html?

22:02:04 [AaronSw]

err css

22:09:27 [AaronSw]

hm. <strong>[MORE...]</strong> or [<strong>MORE...</strong>]

22:09:52 [sbp]

Hmm... the latter, personally

22:31:39 [Ash]

fwoosh

22:31:48 [Ash]

* Ash listens to phantom planet

22:32:02 [sbp]

phew. I thought we were being attacked by birds or something for a second

22:32:37 [sbp]

and then we'd all have to step outside and there'd be hundreds of birds on the power lines and so forth...

22:35:24 [Ash]

sbp: Oh, we are being attacked by birds.

22:35:35 [Ash]

Don't go outside.

22:35:38 [Ash]

Block the fireplace!

22:35:41 [sbp]

heh, heh

22:43:51 [Ash]

my goodness

22:43:54 [Ash]

stupid lusers

22:44:05 [Ash]

don't gripe to me when your dumb website doesn't work

22:46:00 [Ash]

la la la

22:57:58 [sbp]

.google sbp informatino

22:57:59 [xena]

sbp informatino: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-02-09.txt

23:44:17 [AaronSw]

.time

23:44:17 [xena]

2002/05/03 23:44:17.5505 Universal

23:44:20 [AaronSw]

hmmm

23:44:37 [AaronSw]

i can't seem to ssh to vorpal

23:50:24 [AaronSw]

argh, the world isn't working

23:50:24 [sbp]

ugh

23:50:29 [sbp]

heh, heh

23:50:31 [sbp]

work, damn it!

23:50:38 [AaronSw]

can't ssh to mu2 either...

23:50:46 [AaronSw]

ooh, got to vorpal thru another machine

23:50:49 [AaronSw]

but it's verrry sloooow

23:50:56 [AaronSw]

sorta like the buy page for star wars tickets

23:52:12 [AaronSw]

Hm, I think the left side of my face is gonnna turn red.

23:52:20 [AaronSw]

Noah it it very hard with a piece of cardboard.

23:53:59 [AaronSw]

i wonder why everyhting's so slow

23:57:10 [Ash]

fwoosh

23:57:31 [AaronSw]

ah, it's ash's fault

23:59:02 [Ash]

Well duh.

23:59:08 [Ash]

* Ash breaks networks with his very mind!

23:59:13 [Ash]

* Ash causes splits on OPN

23:59:17 [Ash]

oh wait, that was lilo. Nevermind.

23:59:27 [Ash]

* Ash increases ping latency on AaronSw's link