00:14:42 .google EARL "I Do Not Agree" 00:14:43 EARL "I Do Not Agree": http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Dec/0003.html 00:33:32 Morbus (~Morbus@s110.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 00:34:05 reeeeeeeee. 00:38:05 Hi there 00:38:41 how are ya? 00:38:48 you wanna see something funny? 00:38:54 has an authenticate canned quote from yours truly 00:39:24 not too bad, thanks. Still working on the Eep API stuff 00:39:44 Eep? 00:39:52 just doing a query => template thingy 00:39:52 so that peopel can (hopefully) export as XHTML 00:40:10 mmhmm. 00:40:14 i've finished up my comics. 00:40:18 now i get to clean house. 00:41:58 "an authenticate canned quote"? 00:42:05 Eep is the API I've been writing 00:42:09 /ate// 00:42:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Feb/0009 00:42:38 of course I do 00:44:15 [[[ 00:44:15 scattergirl (7:44:52 PM): tired. still at work but almost done. 00:44:15 Morbus (7:45:34 PM): i've returned home. i've finished my comics. and now, now I must clean. but I am putting it off. i noticed you were here. you are my sin, tonight. how does that make you feel, my delectable plate of potatos? 00:44:16 ]]] 00:44:22 heh. i. have no. clue. 00:44:40 indeed you. Don't. 00:44:51 :-) 00:44:58 poor scats 00:45:00 heh. 00:45:05 i like... .. .. .. . 00:45:06 does she still follow #swhack? 00:45:09 william shatner. 00:45:14 i don't think so, no. 00:45:20 i told her there was vintage morbus. 00:45:25 lucky her 00:45:26 but she wants her old brewery, i suppose. 00:45:31 heh, heh 00:45:40 nice analogy 00:45:57 :) 00:51:03 cleaning. 'morbus' me to get my attention 00:51:10 will do 01:08:10 cool:- 01:08:10

Assertor: "Bob B. Bobbington"; asserts...

01:08:11
    01:08:11
  • <http://example.org/net/bob/> on "2001-05-07"
    • 01:08:11
  • <http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/1.0#passes>
    • 01:08:11
  • "WCAG Single A Compliance Test" ["All Priority 1 checkpoints => WCAG Single-A compliance"]
    • 01:08:13
01:14:41 erg... the link doesn't work 01:15:54 * sbp hacks it a bit, and it works 01:18:24 [[[ 01:18:24
  • http://example.org/net/bob/ on 2001-05-07
    • 01:18:24
  • http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/1.0#passes
    • 01:18:24
  • WCAG Single A Compliance Test [All Priority 1 checkpoints => WCAG Single-A compliance]
    • 01:18:25 ]]] 01:21:43 what's this? 01:22:00 this converts RDF into XHTML 01:22:33 try http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2002Feb/0026 01:24:29 i gotta get python on my box. 01:24:34 too bad AaronSw's not around. 01:24:46 i learn best from seeing other people"s code. 01:24:59 do you know if its macpython i get, or if it's the pure linux python? 01:25:31 I think Aaron has both 01:25:36 but I'm not sure which one he uses 01:28:05 heh: 01:28:06 [[[ 01:28:08 We all fall over ourselves to get a look at the latest Miyamoto 01:28:08 creation. He's clearly a very talented and artistic man. He can 01:28:08 probably fart sonnets and pee artistic masterpieces in the snow, and 01:28:09 because of this we all fall at his feet and transfer the same 01:28:09 adoration for just about every game with the 'N' word plastered on 01:28:10 it. 01:28:12 ]]] 01:28:27 heh, heh 01:29:42 [[[ 01:29:42 Hot Shots Golf 3 has got me by the dimpled little white balls 01:29:42 though, so to speak. Sure, it's not a "pure" sports game...but the 01:29:43 cartoon look and completely Japanese stab at Western humor belies 01:29:43 what is, underneath, a very thorough simulation of golf. 01:29:43 ]]] 01:31:58 whoo! got my coldstone cd today 01:48:21 cool, www-html just got another message from Eric 01:59:45 * sbp reads the decaf weed story that Aaron refered to earlier, and also can't tell why it's so funny 02:15:37 @ http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,646929,00.html 02:15:41 A: Guardian Unlimited | Netnews | Music firms losing digital piracy fight from sbp 02:16:01 A:|Music Firms Losing Digital Piracy Fight 02:16:02 titled item A 02:16:53 A::[http://www.aaronsw.com/|Aaron] will freak at the use of the word "piracy" yet again, although he acknowledged that the semantics of the word do appear to be changing 02:16:54 commented item A 02:17:35 A::from this article: """US industry executives believe that 5% of CD sales were lost to digital piracy last year, and as much as 10% could be at risk this year.""" 02:17:36 commented item A 02:18:39 A::That's interesting, because I argued that much or all of the 5% loss from last year was probably due to the abundance of terrible corporate-teen-bands; the lack of decent music on the market 02:18:41 commented item A 02:19:05 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 02:19:34 A::It'll take me a while to concede, but if the rate keeps dropping over the next couple of years, then I guess it'll be beyond doubt 02:19:35 commented item A 02:20:49 A::Personally, I believe that CD quality audio is sufficiently higher than that of MP3 to make me buy CDs. I still buy CDs, because I don't want slushy drums and bass 02:20:51 commented item A 02:21:47 A::What's that you say? You can't tell the diference? Perhaps you're one of those people who listened to MiniDisc when it came out, and exclaimed "it sounds so much better than CD!" 02:21:48 commented item A 02:24:20 tansaku (~sam@h133-217.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 02:32:28 @ http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/home/smooney/swiss/ 02:32:33 B: Words In The Coding Genome from rillian 02:32:39 B:|Fun with genomics 02:32:41 titled item B 02:32:58 B::searching for english words in protein sequences 02:32:59 commented item B 02:34:35 B::exciting finds include 'villainy', 'savagism', 'revealed', 'papering', and 'gedanken' 02:34:36 commented item B 02:35:41 blogspace really needs next/previous links on the weblog pages 02:40:09 yep 02:41:24 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:52:24 Morbus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:27:51 Morbus (~Morbus@s100.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 03:55:11 cool, I got --think to work 03:55:32 it applies for as long as it finds new matches to the rule 03:55:55 rillian has quit ("dinner") 03:58:16 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 04:11:13 trilluser (~ILoveNY@61.176.59.93) has joined #swhack 04:13:21 trilluser has left #swhack 04:22:23 * sbp works on built-ins 04:30:23 hello 04:30:26 * jeremiah has license now 04:30:34 Hi, welcome, and well done 04:30:45 thanks 04:30:48 np 04:30:50 how did you do? 04:30:52 I drove around tonight, it was cool 04:30:55 on the final examish thing? 04:30:59 Id id how everyone does I suppose 04:30:59 yep 04:31:22 I mean, I did a little bit of bad stuff, but nothing wretched 04:31:25 and I got my license 04:31:27 so I'm happy 04:31:31 :-) 05:03:07 Hmm... I need to do the built-ins during inference time, not query time, since they're tests on the results, and on not stuff that you can test during the query itself 05:05:07 for triple in antecedent: if bi.bi(triple): antecedent.remove(triple); testAfter.append(triple) # I guess 05:05:40 Hmm... no, that won't work 05:05:54 because it tries to fill all the damn variables, and barfs if it can't 05:05:55 argh 05:06:07 so I need to implement it where it'd barf 05:06:45 in xtquery... 05:39:18 * sbp is rather pleased with the development of EARL w.r.t. evolution 05:39:22 Gotta run 06:08:23 deus_x has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:08:23 xena has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:35:19 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 06:35:19 deus_x (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 10:33:28 tansaku65 (~sam@h133-217.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:49:29 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:53:09 tansaku65 is now known as tansaku 11:57:50 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:53:56 tansaku (~sam@h133-217.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 13:30:33 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:54:58 tansaku (~sam@h133-217.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:05:45 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:21:49 tansaku (~sam@h133-217.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:30:53 * sbp waves 18:06:17 the funny thing about /DesignIssues/Extensibility is that it does not mention a transition phase between syntactically constrained languages, and their exposed-logic counterparts 18:06:35 er... /DesignIssues/Extensible 18:20:37 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:50:50 hello 20:01:11 Homer: The kids could call you Ho-Ju 20:01:15 ooh, and:- 20:01:26 Homer: Donuts - is there anything they can't do? 20:04:13 * sbp meant /DesignIssues/Evolution before 20:19:11 * sbp ponders the local database Plex file system thing 20:19:28 I have a clearer idea of what's going on in it now 20:20:13 for example, when you slurp something off of the Web to put into it, it'll have to put in all the data as triples - the headers will be encoded in triples, and the body stored somewhere 20:20:32 part of the trick to it will be how much information is built in, how it can extend itself, and how it looks up the data 20:20:51 I thought it might be neat to built the hashes into the system, so that they're not accessible from the actual system itself 20:21:24 in other words, when you hash a file, you can't automatically retireve the hash of the file through the database itself - but that's a bit silly. If you're going to store hash information, the best place to store it would be te database itself 20:21:37 so the general idea is that you're storing semi-structured data forms in there 20:21:56 to parse them, it might be cool to hook up a slightly Blindfold-like thing, so that you have BNF file descriptions 20:22:13 and then you can parse files into triples given the BNF schema thing that's associated with them 20:22:31 all of the file types will be URIs, of course, but we can map MIME types into URIs as well. TAG is considering that 20:23:43 the cool thing is that all the data that you have will be in this one big database 20:23:58 so that when you perform queries, the constraints upon the data that you get back can all b linked 20:24:24 so for example, if you have a ocal archive of files that you've browsed on the Web, you can return just those that have EARL assertions claiming that they pass WCAG A 20:36:42 queries against files will all be stored, so that you can match searches against the hashes of files 20:36:42 in that way, queries that have already be performed will be lightning-fast when perfomed again, although you'll still have to search any new bits of data in the database 20:36:42 I guess this type of thing is what I'd like to do on the Plex in general. Really, this *is* the Plex, but without cryptograhpy 20:36:42 and I have been thinking about doing the localfile system thing myself - using the query engine. THat's what kinda made me write the Eep Query and Inference stuff 20:36:42 but it needs quite complicated built-ins, so I'd have to adapt the whole thing - and built-ins aren't easy 20:36:42 Now that I understand this idea of the local file-system a bit more, I can understand why Aaron is having trouble in writing down when the Plex can do 20:36:42 I think that one of the important points is that we know it will be good, but we will only discover many of the uses when we buid it 20:37:07 I think the same thing goes for TimBl's descriptions of the SW - they lave a lot of information out, and I think that's because even he's not totally sure of the potential 20:37:07 but he knows that the potential of the SW is big. And Aaron knows that with the Plex 20:37:07 It's one of those things that once you have it, you'll wonder how you got along without it, but that without it you just think "well, what's the point?" 20:37:07 but it stores data as it was meant to be stored 20:37:07 I hope that Plex gives you the granularity to actually perform operations on the basic triple level 20:37:07 I mean, I want some really easy interface, and most people should not have to bother with triples - or even know that they're there 20:37:07 but it would be nice for people to play around with the level simply if they want to 20:37:07 TimBL's Evoluation thing is a really good read, and I think that one of the main ideas that it puts across and that we tend to neglect is that of extnsions - how much they are required 20:37:07 you should be able to flag extensions as mandatory or optional. That's te way it should be 20:37:07 of course, we've kinda had that problem with EARL too - getting old software to read new stuff is very difficult 20:37:07 you can't upgade stuff without some effort - it always takes some trouble to convert it 20:37:07 but with EARL, the problem is especially difficult since people don't always want to use CWM or similar to proces the data - they want to use their own Javascirpt hacks and so forth 20:37:07 which is fine - and it's to be expected. But I'm abit miffed that TimBL didn't mention it in Evolution 20:37:07 Actually, Nick raised the chicken/egg situation in the recent ERT IRC conference - saying that we want a stable specification to base tools on, but that once we deploy tools, we'll want to start fecking about with and changing the specification 20:37:08 which means we have to restabilize it, and put out another version 20:37:08 languages are always being updated, and for artifical prograaming and other more declarative languaegs, it's really idfficult, because the tools can't adapt. With natural language it's not as bad because people can adapt 20:37:08 and although I on't really want to stray into the CogSci/AI domain, it does seem as if that's a useful direction 20:37:08 and the Semantic Web seems to find its roots there 20:38:06 but nyway, that's not new ground. I've discuessed it quite often of the ERT list. Let's find a good quote 20:39:00 [[[ 20:39:00 As languages evolve, the grammar and the structure change. EARL is no 20:39:01 exception to that rule. The aim is to let people add extensions to the 20:39:01 language, but make sure that these extensions can still be recognized 20:39:01 enough by current agents. This comes under the umbrella of two 20:39:01 phrases: forwards compatability, and partial understanding. 20:39:16 ]]] - mid:00b301c1836c$d0857b80$ceb80150@localhost 20:39:26 .google site:lists.w3.org 00b301c1836c$d0857b80$ceb80150@localhost 20:39:28 site:lists.w3.org 00b301c1836c$d0857b80$ceb80150@localhost: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Dec/0038.html 20:39:42 .http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Dec/0038 20:39:45 w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org from December 2001: Evaluating Stuff With Evaluating Stuff With EARL From: Sean B. Palmer (sean@mysterylights.com) Date: Wed, Dec 12 2001 Next message: Nick Kew: "Problem tracking and Hashing update" Previous message: Nick Kew: "Re: Equivalence measures" Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Other mail archives: [this mailing list] [other 20:39:46 W3C mailing lists] Mail actions: [ respond to this message ] [ mail a new topic ] Message-ID: <00b301c1836c$d0857b80$ceb80150@localhost> From: 'Sean B. Palmer' To: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:26:27 -0000 Subject: Evaluating Stuff With EARL Sounds like it should be a simple thing, doesn't it? But we had all that stuff to consider: years of background 20:39:46 .. a very large amount of text. 20:39:57 ah, the Web :-) 20:40:39 [[[ 20:40:42 [...] if you use a GPS system, you may have to manually fiddle with the buttons on it to set up a way-point at the coordinates of the meeting. This is just the same as the documentation system before the web. For data, we are still pre-Web. 20:40:47 ]]] - http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Business 20:41:48 heh, the Plex really could be the killer-ap for the Semantic Web 20:42:06 and actually, I think it's an extension of SWAG 20:42:31 whereas with SWAG we were just going to record people's schemata, here we're recording absolutely everything - every bit of informatino that we can find 20:43:01 SWAG will become redundant with the Plex; probably, and only to some extent 20:43:09 not that it isn't redundant enough at the moment :-) 20:43:50 ooh, one idea that I had about files and folders: what's up with folders? Folders should vanish - they're pointless, and stupid. I recall the "folders will grab files in the future quote", but I don't think that files will exist at all 20:44:12 if you like, you can associate small labels with files such that it gives the impression of grouping, but that will just be a useful illusion 20:45:05 in other words, you're just attaching properties to a group of data items that you want to find again in the future, to perhaps make it more memorable, or whatever. it gives the flexibility to data that hypertext gave to documentation 20:45:15 wow, quotariffic 20:46:13 because in reality, that's how we work. I know that I don't want to have to bung things into files all of the time 20:46:28 my local file system is a mess. I mean, a real mess - nothing is where it should be, and finding anything is a bit of a nightmare 20:46:53 the addition of CygWin made it easier in some respects, since I can now grep etc. and be quite precise about what I'm doing (and run sh scripts) 20:47:22 but overall, it's just silly. Having a data systemlike the Plex would be worse in some ways because of the freedom that it gives you 20:47:29 but I for one would like that freedom 20:47:34 ban the hierarchy! 20:48:17 actually, I found that a good way of arranging the data that I scrape off of the Web is to put it in folders by date 20:48:32 what I do is I fill up my desktop until I can't find anything on it because there are so many files 20:48:54 and then I just scrape all of the stuff into files like /YYYY-MM-DD/, and then it's quite easy to find 20:49:01 well, rather, it creates les of a mess 20:49:14 now, stuff like the Plex should be able to do that more-or-less automatically 20:49:30 Hmm... I'd really like a "recover data" funtion in the Plex, too 20:49:38 not that I don't trust it with my data... 20:50:07 O.K., I won't trust it with my data. Of course, it can't be much worse than any normal OS' file system, but it's new, and people are conservative 20:50:25 I'm sure that more than one person will raise an eyebrow at saving so much stuff in database system 20:50:48 I mean, sotring the world's data in a single type of database thingy. It's abig change for most from the ordinary file-system idea 20:51:07 although I don't expect that Plex will replace the filesystem. THat'd be a stp too far 20:51:29 so I guess it might save data into files, as it'll be faster to access. I'm not sure - I should ask Aaron when he comes back 20:51:44 actually, he's bound to review the logs if he can be bothered to read all of this crap 20:51:58 ooh, or perhaps he's got his speakers on now. That'd be cool 20:52:15 he'll probably be screaming "WTF are you going on about now? aaargh!" 20:54:49 so many fields - distributed computing, AI, the Semantic Web, conceptual graphs, FOPL, file-sharing, cryptography, seach algorithms, file systems, programming, declarative languages, schemata, Web formats, URIs, HTTP, standardizations, evolution/TOII, evalution, pattern matching, language definitions, namespaces... 20:55:20 although it's cool how they all overlap. Just a bummer that you have to learn all of the others to be really practcal in any one field 20:56:59 heh, like my question abotu where Python and Notation3 will meet up 20:57:11 Notation3 only needs a few more builtins :-) 20:57:20 or Python to be properly Webized... 20:57:32 of course, Python isn't currently expressed as triples 20:57:42 although you could rig the tokenizer so that it spews out NTriples 20:57:54 although I don't really know what the point of that would be 20:58:10 no one in thier right minds would write an implementation of Python based on an RDF API 20:58:32 well, it'd be a fun experiment. I mean, someone impelemnted it in Java - how much more annoying could you get that Java? 20:59:11 Hmm... didn't someone actually create a programming language based on Notation3? 20:59:29 I don't think he really understood the principle... or maybe I didn't understand the principle. Let's find it... 20:59:38 .google Notation3 "programming language" 20:59:39 Notation3 "programming language": http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-08-13.txt 20:59:50 .google Notation3 "programming language" -sbp 20:59:51 Notation3 "programming language" -sbp: http://www.isacat.net/citnames/2001/04/rpp.htm 20:59:57 .google Notation3 "programming language" -sbp -Danny 20:59:58 Notation3 "programming language" -sbp -Danny: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/04/25/prologrdf 21:00:05 .google Notation3 "programming language" -sbp -Danny -bijan 21:00:06 Notation3 "programming language" -sbp -Danny -bijan: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$4353?mode=topic 21:00:11 heh, heh 21:00:13 .google Notation3 "programming language" -sbp -Danny -bijan -wmf 21:00:14 no results found. 21:00:17 heh" 22:02:31 As I recall, Sandro or someone came up with the idea of putting directives in Notation3 itself 22:02:33 I don't think that was a particularly good idea - I think that the actual processing of the N3 should be independent of reading the files 22:02:36 OTOH, there are now built-ins in CWM that allow you to get a file from the Web, parse to semantics, and deduct - which is really cool 22:02:41 That's basically what the Notation3 validator does. TimBL notes somewhere that it's a good demonstration of the fact that not all things will have to be treated as being asserted on the Semantic Web 22:02:44 In other words, you're scraping the files off of the Web, and processing the data inside, but you're not actually adding it to your own current store - you're never really asserting the data, just working with it at arm's length 22:02:47 Distributing lots of these files and programming directives is what the Plex will have to do as well - you'll need to be able to get stuff from the Plex without necessarily believing it. For example, you want to be able to store directions such as "delete all of the data on the Plex" without actually doing it! 22:02:51 Limiting the damage cuased by odd commands like that is something that'll have to be worked on - although I presume that the answer will be that only people with the correct digital signature can delete the corresponding files 22:02:54 Hmm... I'd really like to register the Notation3 MIME type. I wouldn't like to have to coordinate that, though 22:02:56 OTOH, is it really that important that the MIME type be registered? 22:03:01 Notation3 already has a URI that identifies the class of Notation3 documents: http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#N3Document 22:03:05 What more do you want? People just don't serve RDF out with their correct MIME type, and so they don't really expect to 22:03:12 Ooh, that's a good idea - you could have a new HTTP header that simply gives the file type as a <> rdf:type ?x kinda thing. Just something like RDF-Type: http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#N3Document 22:03:18 Perhaps we could use HTTP-ext, although I don't really see the point - just add it as it is. PErhaps I could propose that to TAG, although they don't even really need to know about it 22:03:23 And stuff like CWM could easily parse it - it's really easy to get the information out of an HTTP header 22:03:28 For example, I can set up a file at http://infomesh.net/2002/n3header/ 22:04:10 .http://infomesh.net/2002/n3header/ 22:04:12 @prefix : . :Sean :homepage . 22:04:17 erg 22:04:51 And then get CygBot to verify the RDF-type of the body... 22:04:53 CygBot (~sbp@m221-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:05:28 $ python -c "import urllib2; print urllib2.urlopen('http://infomesh.net/2002/n3header/').info()['content-type']" 22:05:34 > text/plain 22:05:34 > [end] 22:05:45 $ python -c "import urllib2; print urllib2.urlopen('http://infomesh.net/2002/n3header/').info()['rdf-type']" 22:05:51 > http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#N3Document 22:05:51 > [end] 22:05:53 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:06:28 If it did use HTTP-ext, you'd have to have something like:- 22:06:35 Opt: "http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#";ns=11 22:06:35 11-type: http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#N3Document 22:06:47 I'd better check the meaning of the class... 22:06:54 [[[ 22:07:00 log:N3Document a rdfs:Class; 22:07:00 rdfs:comment """A document which, which parsed as Notation3 22:07:00 as defined in general by http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3.html 22:07:00 and this schema, conveys the intent of the author by the semantics defined 22:07:00 on those specifications, and the semantics defined by the specifications 22:07:00 of any identifiers used in the document. 22:07:02 """ . 22:07:05 ]]] - http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log accept=text/plain 22:07:08 seems reasonable 22:07:35 xena bug: don't treat text/plain as text/html 22:08:50 Hmm... where'd that N3 programming language go to? 22:09:44 aha... 22:09:46 .google Notation3 programming language 22:09:47 Notation3 programming language: http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/dquan/n3script.html 22:09:59 [[[ 22:09:59 Simple data input 22:09:59 @prefix haystack: . 22:09:59 @prefix dc: . 22:09:59 $me := $UniqueResource() . 22:10:00 $me a haystack:Person ; 22:10:02 haystack:emailAddress ; 22:10:04 dc:title "Dennis Quan" . 22:10:06 ]]] 22:10:08 ugh: .daml 22:10:24 Hmm... seems rather Perl based 22:10:54 pff, WTF is "$me := $UniqueResource() ." meant to be? that's rather silly, IMO 22:13:13 deus_x has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22:13:24 * sbp tries to find TimBL's definition of RDF 22:13:49 .google site:lists.w3.org www-rdf-comments Tim properties meaning 22:13:49 site:lists.w3.org www-rdf-comments Tim properties meaning: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/1998JulSep/0007.html 22:13:55 .google site:lists.w3.org www-rdf-comments Tim properties meaning 2001 22:13:56 site:lists.w3.org www-rdf-comments Tim properties meaning 2001: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2001OctDec/0350.html 22:14:25 ah: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2001OctDec/0324 22:15:09 [[[ 22:15:10 1. The meaning of an RDF document is the sum 22:15:10 (in english, strictly conjunction) of the independent meanings 22:15:10 of the statements of which the RDF document is comprised. [...] 22:15:10 2. The meaning of an RDF statement is defined by the 22:15:10 preciate used, and so is specified by the specification 22:15:12 of the Property that is used as predicate. 22:15:16 3. When the predicate of statement is rdf:type, then the 22:15:18 meaning of the statement is defined by the class used 22:15:20 as object, and so is specified by the specification of the 22:15:22 class. 22:15:24 ]]] - TimBL 22:15:42 there: a nice littlet circle of meaning for an N3 document 22:15:52 .google "http-ext" 22:15:53 "http-ext": http://www.ext.msstate.edu/srdc 22:16:34 .http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2774.txt 22:16:37 Network Working Group H. Nielsen Request for Comments: 2774 P. Leach Category: Experimental Microsoft S. Lawrence Agranat Systems February 2000 An HTTP Extension Framework Status of this Memo This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested. Distribution of this 22:16:37 memo is unlimited. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2000). All Rights Reserved. IESG Note This document was originally requested for Proposed Standard status. However, due to mixed reviews during Last Call and within the HTTP working group, it is being published as an Experimental document. This is not necessarily an indication of technical flaws in the document; rather, there is 22:16:38 .. a very large amount of text. 22:18:38 interesting how it follows the mandatory/otpinal extension philosophy 22:18:46 [[[ 22:18:46 mandatory = "Man" ":" 1#ext-decl 22:18:46 optional = "Opt" ":" 1#ext-decl 22:18:47 ]]] 22:21:16 2001-10-25 03:10:41 Yes, HTTP-ext is like namespaces for XML. It binds new headers to a URI - the header itself is irrelevant. I agtree with mnot that IETF frowns on X- -- it didn't help. 22:22:16 heh:- 22:22:18 02:54:05 So it's a header free-for-all? 22:22:23 02:54:18 woo, everybody grab a header! 22:23:59 Hmm... 22:24:00 [[[ 22:24:00 03:12:09 Suggestion: add it to the content type as a param 22:24:07 [...] 22:24:08 03:12:48 Content-type: application/octet-stream; bfg=http://whatever/foo.bfg 22:24:08 ]]] 22:27:03 Sandro's written a bit about this at http://www.w3.org/2001/06/blindfold/langIdent 22:27:13 so the options for identifying types of content are:- 22:27:20 HTTP Content-Type header 22:27:32 some new header identifying a type that uses a URI 22:27:52 some new header that gives the rdf:type of the representation body 22:28:10 new header for linking to an RDf file, and the type (vicious circle) 22:28:22 new header for just adding triples to the header (e.g. N3:) 22:28:40 magic file type - Sandro proposed to use an emacsy string 22:29:03 in XML: the namespace, or the conjunction of all namespaces used 22:29:32 any more? 22:31:18 at the moment, I like the idea of a simple RDF-Type: header, such as I have already implemented 22:33:11 it would determine the class to which the entity-body of the HTTP message belongs 22:33:40 [[[ 22:33:41 If 22:33:41 and only if the media type is not given by a Content-Type field, the 22:33:41 recipient MAY attempt to guess the media type via inspection of its 22:33:41 content and/or the name extension(s) of the URI used to identify the 22:33:41 resource. 22:33:47 ]]] - http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt 22:34:31 RFC 2616, section 7.2.1 22:35:02 blargh @ name extension 22:35:17 that's really quite yucky 23:16:24 * sbp drafts a letter to the TAG 23:16:32 "[uriMediaType-9] Identifying Content Classes in HTTP Using rdf:type" 23:27:01 * sbp sends it 23:27:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Feb/0046 23:28:28 example snippets:- 23:28:29 [[[ 23:28:29 Use of URIs as content type (class) identifiers follows the "URI only" 23:28:30 schema level as discussed in the "Evolution" DesignIssues document 23:28:30 [5]. This level of language identification is useful where 23:28:30 identification-without-interpretation is required, as is the case with 23:28:31 Notation3 (the syntax [and occasionally semantics] of which actually 23:28:33 changes with the seasons). 23:28:35 ]]] 23:28:45 and the conclusion:- 23:28:47 [[[ 23:28:47 * A specification detailing an "RDF-Type" HTTP header should be 23:28:47 registered as an informational RFC 23:28:47 * The IANA should provide a mapping from the currently registered 23:28:47 content types to a list of URIs (there are some obvious choices for 23:28:49 this mapping) 23:28:51 ]]] 23:29:28 Hmm... I'm quite pleased with that message, actually 23:36:45 The problem with sending messages like that is that sometimes you get engaged into big discussions 23:36:59 As Dan said, the amount of email you get it is closely related to the amount that you send out 23:37:08 s/it/in/