IRC log of swhack on 2002-04-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:06:58 [SethR]

seth's gonna put up a simpson's page and sell simpson paraphenalia

00:09:55 [sbp]

para-for-whatlia?

00:10:34 [sbp]

BTW, you seem to have a bit of apostrophal incontinence there

00:10:58 [sbp]

unless you're putting up a page for a Mr./Ms. Simpson

00:12:51 [SethR]

do not = don't

00:12:58 [SethR]

seth's = seth is

00:13:10 [SethR]

waaazamatter

00:13:21 [sbp]

simpson's != Simpsons :-)

00:13:57 [sbp]

"alt.pedantic.sbp.stop.stop.stop" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Nov/0000

00:14:32 [SethR]

'simpson's' nota symbal.

00:16:45 [sbp]

(anyway, I've been talking about a load of Morbii having things, so who am I to nitpick?)

00:17:51 [tansaku_xr]

tansaku_xr has quit ("http://www.neurogrid.net or nothing at all")

00:17:52 [SethR]

actually ya gota point .. how to form a the possessive symbals ?

00:18:16 [SethR]

[ownedBy Simpsons] called ?symbal

00:18:56 [sbp]

that seems alright

00:19:15 [SethR]

that was a question, unretorical

00:19:15 [sbp]

"Whose is it? It's the Simpsons'"

00:19:29 [SethR]

cant put the ' in a symbal

00:19:30 [sbp]

yep, I'm just mulling it over

00:19:45 [sbp]

well, properties themselves indicate a kind of possesiveness

00:20:02 [sbp]

:Bob :dog :Fido .

00:20:13 [sbp]

Bob's dog is Fido

00:20:31 [sbp]

TimBL was going to use the $ sign for backwards traversal, IIRC

00:20:43 [SethR]

{Bob dog Fido} a Nonesense

00:20:56 [sbp]

so that Boss$email would be the Boss's email, or [ is email of Boss ]

00:21:09 [sbp]

Nonesense a Nonsense :-)

00:21:14 [SethR]

$ dont make it in Semenglish

00:21:34 [SethR]

got to be a word

00:21:37 [sbp]

why not? does it conflict with a conflicting symbol?

00:21:49 [sbp]

er.. symbol was a bad choice of words...

00:21:58 [sbp]

as was conflicting

00:22:12 [sbp]

I meant: does it conflict with an existing construct?

00:22:19 [SethR]

got to be pronounceable ... got to be a word ... my own personal preference ... maybe ill even burn it into the code

00:22:39 [sbp]

you should make the constraints on the language clear

00:22:47 [SethR]

i call them symbals ... note the spelling

00:23:14 [sbp]

OTOH, N3 isn't all that well defined! but that's N3, and I don't think you want to repeat history, do you? :-)

00:23:20 [SethR]

probably will [a-z] ... that should do it

00:23:40 [sbp]

:NotIfYouWantToMakeCoolClassNames a rdfs:Class .

00:23:44 [SethR]

nope .. want something between N3 and English

00:24:33 [SethR]

ok so it's [a-zA-Z] ??

00:25:16 [sbp]

well, my recommendation for the name production in N3 is [A-Za-z0-9_]+

00:25:39 [sbp]

but I think that people could cope with [A-Za-z]

00:25:51 [sbp]

(er... [A-Za-z]+)

00:26:00 [AaronSw]

hyphens too!

00:26:02 [AaronSw]

gotta run

00:26:09 [sbp]

heh, that was quick

00:26:31 [sbp]

well, there's TimBL's hyphen thing...

00:26:50 [SethR]

yep ill prob go with your recommendation ... but words i coil will be [A-Za-z]+

00:27:02 [SethR]

coil = coin

00:27:08 [sbp]

"It would be nice to be able to outlaw - in IDs" - http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3

00:27:35 [sbp]

well, it's entirely up to you, and the requirements for your application and of your target domain

00:28:03 [SethR]

well i want to be able to read n3 with no complaints

00:28:22 [SethR]

outlaw - in IDs ??

00:28:37 [sbp]

uh oh: "there's yet another N3 parser in Python" - http://www.w3.org/2002/02/mid/5.1.0.14.2.20020425232949.00a49ec0@joy.songbird.com

00:28:41 [sbp]

heh, as we're speaking, people are writing new N3 parsers!

00:28:51 [sbp]

cf. http://www.ninebynine.org/RDFNotes/RDFForLittleLanguages.htm

00:29:13 [deltab]

why outlaw hyphens?

00:29:41 [sbp]

dunno. ask TimBL

00:30:01 [sbp]

I think he was reserving them in N3 for mathematical operations

00:30:15 [deltab]

what, *hyphens*?

00:30:19 [sbp]

but I'm not sure why he'd want to get rid of them in XML (which is what's emplied)

00:30:27 [sbp]

em-minus characters

00:30:51 [deltab]

minus signs I could agree with, but not hyphens

00:30:51 [sbp]

why not?

00:31:06 [sbp]

right...

00:31:19 [sbp]

but ASCII made things fuzzy

00:32:17 [sbp]

* sbp goes through Graham's code

00:33:09 [sbp]

ew, there's some pretty bad stuff in there already

00:33:18 [sbp]

"@equivalence"? yuck

00:33:23 [SethR]

incidentally, sean, your QName Survey was very useful .. thanks!

00:33:29 [sbp]

np

00:33:36 [sbp]

it felt bad enough adding @use and @keyword

00:34:03 [sbp]

the '">-" prop "->"' forms were taken out a long time ago

00:35:58 [sbp]

interesting code

00:37:33 [sbp]

let's speed test it!

00:37:43 [walloper]

<lilo> utility server being moved, minor netsplit

00:41:08 [walloper]

<lilo> split and full proxy check coming up, please bear with us

01:02:39 [jillzilla]

jillzilla has left #swhack

01:10:35 [jillzilla]

jillzilla (~jill@216-239-45-4.google.com) has joined #swhack

01:19:52 [Ash]

JILLZILLA

01:20:01 [jillzilla]

ASH

01:20:22 [Ash]

What's up there

01:31:02 [sbp]

everything, thanks to inflation

01:31:03 [AaronSw]

Heh, i just got someone hooked on towers of hanoi

01:31:13 [sbp]

how cruel

01:31:41 [AaronSw]

he's got two more washers to go

01:31:46 [AaronSw]

i told him i'd be back in 2 hours

01:32:43 [syn|ack]

this channel is the closest I have gotten to a parallel dimension

01:33:39 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw chuckles. I wonder if that's good or bad.

01:34:32 [syn|ack]

definately good - opens the mind of what could be possible if I drank more coffee? :P

01:35:34 [syn|ack]

seriously though, i mean it's like IRC but different

01:36:05 [syn|ack]

perhaps the IRC of the future? bots doing this, doing that

01:38:24 [sbp]

all the bots are useless!

01:38:27 [sbp]

.makeMyTea

01:38:33 [sbp]

gah

01:39:27 [sbp]

"Swhack: all your bots are belong to us"

01:42:42 [redmonk]

.writeMySoftware

01:42:59 [redmonk]

<xena> redmonk, software written and uploaded

01:43:10 [redmonk]

woohoo. that's what I'm talking about

01:43:51 [xena]

are you kidding me? with all the web at my fingertips, i got better things to do, pal!

01:44:04 [eikeon]

lol

01:44:08 [AaronSw]

eikeon!

01:44:19 [eikeon]

I missed you talk :(

01:44:33 [AaronSw]

I noticed...

01:44:36 [eikeon]

Got busy with Redfoot releases all of a sudden...

01:44:40 [eikeon]

how did it go?

01:44:51 [AaronSw]

ah. at least you didn't get stuck wandering around cambridge

01:44:58 [AaronSw]

I thought it went really well. I wrote it up.

01:45:07 [AaronSw]

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000233

01:45:15 [AaronSw]

linking to http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/6171talk/talk

01:46:18 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/kleinber/swn.d/swn.html

01:46:52 [chumpy]

A: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/kleinber/swn.d/swn.html from AaronSw

01:46:56 [AaronSw]

A::<raph> this kleinberg paper fucking _rocks!_ it's absolutely beautiful work, that i was not aware of before

01:47:15 [chumpy]

commented item A

01:47:20 [AaronSw]

GR

01:49:42 [sbp]

Hmph

01:49:49 [sbp]

* sbp was writing a Swhack FAQ. Soon gave that up

01:50:19 [sbp]

sample: "We're a bunch of pernickety pedants, prudes, nitpickers, quibblers, hemotilists, and literary teratologists. So deal with it. However, we don't mind if you get your grammar or spelling too wrongly, since we're all fairly laid back, easy going people. Except for xena. But anyway, just remember that everything that you say is being logged."

01:51:42 [sbp]

heh, the list of people that we "frown upon" on Swhack is quite funny too

01:53:44 [redmonk]

so what is it?

01:53:48 [redmonk]

(the list)

01:57:14 [sbp]

aah, you'll just have to wait and find out

02:05:21 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit ("cya")

02:08:01 [deltab]

deltab is now known as in

02:08:16 [in]

in is now known as deltab

02:42:42 [AaronSw]

the deltab is in

02:51:27 [sbp]

work in progress: http://infomesh.net/2002/swhackfaq/

02:57:51 [AaronSw]

tis not owned by me. it's an equal partnership, 50/50

02:58:12 [AaronSw]

Heh! 'I once asked Aaron, in all seriousness, "does a dog have Swhack-nature?". Aaron retorted "shut up, you idiot!".'

02:58:25 [AaronSw]

I did not! shut up, you idiot!

02:58:45 [sbp]

:-)

02:59:33 [sbp]

you're the founder... I kinda equate that with owner. I don't mind, particularly. You came up with the channel name, entered the channel, and founded it. No biggie, dude

02:59:47 [sbp]

(note the section on "dude" later on in the FAQ)

03:00:01 [AaronSw]

you want me to make you the owner? you're already the successor

03:00:37 [AaronSw]

lol @ professional Java programmers

03:00:43 [sbp]

what?! I don't want to be the owner at all! I'm rather glad that you founded it

03:00:47 [sbp]

heh, heh

03:00:47 [AaronSw]

/kick redmonk :professional Java programmers

03:01:34 [SethR]

so sean, what's you best start of the art N3 parser?

03:01:39 [AaronSw]

I thought our goal was to immanetntize the eschaton. I'm confused.

03:01:43 [sbp]

the Hints and Tips section is the best bit, I think

03:02:25 [AaronSw]

tav is also prone to leg-humping

03:02:30 [sbp]

Seth: do you mean my favourite N3 parser of all time, or the one that I think is best, or the best one that I've worked on, or what?

03:02:30 [AaronSw]

especially on software

03:02:44 [sbp]

Eschaton: we can flip flop, I suppose

03:02:45 [deltab]

how about linking to the channel?

03:02:48 [AaronSw]

(cough zope cough)

03:02:59 [sbp]

yeah, but tav's not really about swhack, is he?

03:03:02 [SethR]

the one i should try to build on in the mentography api

03:03:30 [sbp]

deltab: good point! I left out a link to the channel on purpose ("if you can't find it, you don't deserve to be here"), but forgot to add the note

03:03:44 [sbp]

SethR: I don't know anything about your requirements, so I have no idea!

03:05:14 [SethR]

well i like the idea that i can define token types with python regular expressions ... n3.py looked pretty good to me .. just wanted to know if there is something that superseeds that or if i have the latest copy

03:05:27 [sbp]

well, I'm using Yapps now

03:05:33 [sbp]

but that does suck a bit

03:05:50 [sbp]

it messes up comments, for some reason, so I'll have to pre-process it. ugh

03:06:19 [SethR]

dont know about Yapps .. seems to be overkill to me .. more complicate to use than just writing the code yourself

03:07:05 [sbp]

I don't think it's that much more complicated

03:07:27 [sbp]

it depends upon your approach, of course

03:09:13 [SethR]

so after n3.py you started using Yapps? ... if so where is the lastest version of n3.py ?

03:09:43 [sbp]

the latest version of n3.py is not yet on the Web, and neither is my enchanced rdfn3.g

03:10:26 [sbp]

heh: "For Heaven's sake, this one isn't even spelled the same way! If someone can't tell the difference, they probably shouldn't be doing anything as exacting as writing software." - http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~aycock/spark/

03:11:07 [SethR]

can i have your latest n3.py ?

03:11:10 [sbp]

the Spark stuff is an alternative. Haven't used it a great deal, so I'm not sure how good it is

03:11:13 [sbp]

sure

03:12:02 [davb]

davb is now known as googleman

03:12:20 [sbp]

sent

03:12:35 [SethR]

:)

03:12:39 [sbp]

I'm not putting them online just yet, since I might make another major API change

03:15:01 [googleman]

googleman is now known as davb

03:16:57 [SethR]

so did rdfn3.g go into Yappa to generate n3.py ?

03:17:39 [sbp]

no, it generated rdfn3.py which I forgot to send to you (oops). Would you like it?

03:17:48 [SethR]

yep

03:17:48 [sbp]

it's not all that intelligable or necessary to read

03:17:54 [sbp]

* sbp sends it anyway

03:18:01 [sbp]

all the relevant info. is in rdfn3.g

03:18:30 [sbp]

sent

03:18:36 [SethR]

thanks

03:19:16 [sbp]

np

03:19:32 [tansaku_xr]

tansaku_xr (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack

03:21:01 [sbp]

it can be generated anyway using python yapps2.py rdfn3.g rdfn3.py > /dev/null

03:21:17 [davb]

davb has left #swhack

03:21:40 [sbp]

on SPARK vs. Yapps: <DanCon> umm... I don't think so. yapps blows away spark for N3

03:22:37 [SethR]

do you think rdfn3.py is better than n3.py ?

03:23:05 [sbp]

yes. (presuming you mean Eep's n3.py)

03:23:23 [SethR]

how compared to the one you just sent me

03:23:31 [sbp]

pardon?

03:24:03 [sbp]

I mean that EepII's rdfn3.py/n3.py combination (that I just sent you) is better than Eep's old n3.py parser that I wrote about one or two months ago

03:24:29 [sbp]

since it can grok formula and lists properly (which I was only working towards in n3.py)

03:24:52 [sbp]

s/formula/formulae/

03:25:24 [AaronSw]

OK, you asked for it: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/ircStyle

03:25:39 [sbp]

but I'm still not 100% certain that Yapps is the best direction for N3 parsing...

03:25:41 [sbp]

ooh!

03:27:17 [sbp]

lol @ "<exampleDude> wow, like, where are the tree files?"

03:27:35 [sbp]

ahem @ "Do not include the channel name in the topic. It is implicitly included."

03:27:53 [sbp]

it's Morbus that runs into the wall constantly!

03:27:55 [SethR]

well direction wise i want to be able to define grammars with arrows ... as in SyntaxSemenglish7.gif

03:28:14 [SethR]

anything that will get me closer to that is the direction i want to go in

03:28:23 [sbp]

"volate": yeah, well, you also "volate" the rules of spelling

03:28:45 [AaronSw]

Morbus is reserved for making out with the female members of the channel.

03:28:53 [sbp]

* sbp checks out http://robustai.net/mentography/SyntaxSemenglish7.gif

03:28:55 [sbp]

heh!

03:29:01 [sbp]

(@ Aaron's comment)

03:29:28 [AaronSw]

"The same goes if you're making out with the female members of the channel. Like, get a room! Especially if you're Morbus."

03:29:34 [sbp]

I guess that the concat rules are to read from left to right?

03:29:41 [sbp]

I don't think that'd work in a directionless graph :-)

03:30:04 [SethR]

yep .. those arrows would have the seq attribute .. therefore they are ordered

03:30:07 [sbp]

Aaron: heh, heh

03:30:51 [SethR]

same with the alt ... sometimes that might make a difference

03:31:13 [sbp]

what's the difference between a compound word with three words and a reified statement?

03:31:21 [SethR]

that was so obvious in the graph, that i omitted sticking numbers on each arrow

03:31:24 [sbp]

what on earth is a compound word anyway?

03:32:00 [AaronSw]

Q: Um, do you just wish that IRC was a MUD or MOO where you could be in multiple rooms at the same time?

03:32:00 [AaronSw]

A: Yeah, so? What's it to you, pal?

03:32:11 [sbp]

not to mention an NExpression

03:32:19 [sbp]

heh

03:32:36 [SethR]

you know that graph is pretty old, probably not good to look at it too closely ... just pointed to it to indicate that the Yapps grammar directives can be *inside* the graph, and not embedded in the python code

03:32:37 [sbp]

just hanging about in your average field...

03:32:54 [sbp]

right

03:33:06 [sbp]

well, that's the blindfold direction, I guess

03:33:11 [sbp]

vapourware!

03:33:13 [AaronSw]

invoking rule C4, can you two get a room?

03:33:15 [sbp]

excuse me

03:33:35 [sbp]

what room wouldst thou suggesteth?

03:33:57 [sbp]

ah! #sbp Just the ticker

03:34:00 [sbp]

ticket, that is

03:36:00 [sbp]

it'd be so great to be able to update parsers thorough a new BNF. impossible though. you need new code

03:36:16 [AaronSw]

not with (trumpets) blindfold!

03:36:26 [sbp]

:-)

03:36:37 [SethR]

nope, just type the BNF right into the graph, and interpert it directly

03:36:42 [sbp]

you mean: [magnificent and majectic fanfare]

03:37:23 [sbp]

er... no. you need code to interpret the tokens, if you can even get to the token phase.

03:38:05 [sbp]

for example, blindfold hinges on the semantic annotations idea. those annotations are API-specific. When the API changes, the annotations can become invalid

03:38:46 [SethR]

welll ... hummm ... let's see ... what one of your functions in rdfn3.py should we have be a primitive built in ? ... you tell me

03:39:42 [sbp]

well, I'd like to see you convert rdfn3.py to RDF :-)

03:39:53 [sbp]

perhaps I just don't know enough about declarative programming...

03:40:20 [SethR]

lol

03:40:28 [SwhackMOO]

SwhackMOO (~aaronsw@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

03:40:32 [sbp]

but even with a prolog N3 parser, there are some pretty heavy duty components

03:40:37 [sbp]

SwhackMOO!

03:40:52 [AaronSw]

look

03:40:53 [SwhackMOO]

You see a big open space with people teleporting in and out, toys scattered around the floors and displays, speakers and whiteboards along the walls and ceiling.

03:41:15 [AaronSw]

look AaronSw

03:41:16 [SwhackMOO]

AaronSw is a tall and slender and a pale white, with black clothes draped loosely around him. He wears an artist's beret and has a round and friendly face, deep in concentration, but faintly smiling.

03:41:26 [AaronSw]

hm, gotta fix that...

03:41:49 [AaronSw]

SwhackMOO, reload!

03:41:50 [sbp]

look, AaronSw, I told you to fix it months ago!

03:42:04 [AaronSw]

look AaronSw

03:42:07 [SwhackMOO]

AaronSw is tall, slender and a pale white, with black clothes draped loosely around him. He wears an artist's beret and has a round and friendly face, deep in concentration, but faintly smiling.

03:42:09 [sbp]

ah, the comma and/or extra junk stopped it from going into one

03:42:45 [AaronSw]

look sbp

03:42:45 [SwhackMOO]

sbp not found, please submit a description to AaronSw

03:42:51 [AaronSw]

sbp?

03:42:56 [sbp]

AaronSw?

03:43:03 [AaronSw]

please submit your MOO description

03:44:02 [sbp]

no way. I consider myself not-bovine. Those MOOs are taking over, y'know, and it's us against them. Hmm... that's fairly consistent with the first episode of South Park

03:44:17 [AaronSw]

now come on, that's not fair

03:44:39 [AaronSw]

i guess i'll just have to write one for you

03:44:44 [sbp]

whee!

03:44:45 [AaronSw]

nah, that won't work.

03:44:52 [sbp]

yeah, t'will

03:44:54 [AaronSw]

i'll just have to /kick you out. it's required

03:45:07 [sbp]

nooooooooo (which rhymes with no, not moo)

03:45:19 [AaronSw]

then ya better come up with one

03:45:27 [sbp]

sbp is a guy. there

03:45:52 [AaronSw]

you need more than that. do you need some examples?

03:46:02 [AaronSw]

http://www.asi.org/moonsims/bible/moo-bot-descriptions.html

03:47:27 [sbp]

oh man, it's that page again! :-)

03:47:49 [sbp]

according to that thing, I'd be an "attractive young woman"

03:47:55 [AaronSw]

"X is an attractive young woman"

03:47:56 [AaronSw]

heh, snap

03:48:13 [sbp]

which conflicts just a little bit with my rather snazzy "sbp is a guy. there"

03:48:18 [AaronSw]

they've got some attractive young men later on

03:49:00 [sbp]

heh, like this guy?: "Bruce McIntyre is an appealingly pudgy mature man wearing a gray sports coat and black slacks. He has short, balding graying hair and gray eyes."

03:49:21 [AaronSw]

i like the imag

03:50:05 [sbp]

heh, heh

03:50:34 [sbp]

it's kinda freaky, but with an element of hipsterism, and a whiff of funk

03:50:59 [sbp]

in a Madison Avenue Plastic Fantastic styleé, of course

03:51:00 [AaronSw]

Fine, i'll write one for you...

03:51:51 [sbp]

good. try to make it consistent with "sbp is a guy. there" if you can

03:51:57 [sbp]

be a good fellow :-)

03:54:13 [AaronSw]

sbp is a tall and friendly young man. He's always wearing a wide smile with his trademark buttoned blue plaid shirt. He wears long black trousers that partially cover his bare feet and waves hello to anyone that passes by.

03:54:49 [sbp]

wow, that didn't suck nearly as much as I thought it would

03:55:10 [AaronSw]

I don't know if I should print what I originally had.

03:55:17 [sbp]

it makes me sound a bit like the Cheshire Cat, but O.K...

03:55:19 [AaronSw]

My head was filled with bad vibes from that asi page.

03:55:24 [sbp]

heh, heh

03:55:53 [AaronSw]

look sbp

03:55:54 [SwhackMOO]

sbp is a tall and friendly young man. He's always wearing a wide smile with his trademark buttoned blue plaid shirt. He wears long black trousers that partially cover his bare feet and waves hello to anyone that passes by.

03:56:30 [AaronSw]

You'd probably do a much better job, though.

03:56:36 [sbp]

why would my feet be going in the nuddy?

03:56:43 [AaronSw]

i dunno

03:57:17 [AaronSw]

I tried to imagine you, and I realized that I never saw your feet. So I guessed.

03:57:19 [sbp]

perhaps I've just been paddling, or something

03:57:45 [AaronSw]

I used the general rule that things you can't see are usually not wearing anything.

03:57:56 [sbp]

lol!

03:57:56 [walloper]

<lilo> Hi all. Bit of European rehubbing in process, please bear with us

03:58:04 [sbp]

oh man, that's an absolute classic

03:58:17 [sbp]

that, in fact, is one of the funnies things ever said in #swhack

03:58:32 [AaronSw]

I thought you might like that one.

03:58:56 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: <AaronSw> I used the general rule that things you can't see are usually not wearing anything.

03:59:01 [AaronSw]

I tested the theory on myself.

03:59:13 [walloper]

<lilo> Now that was *not* intentional. Late hour in the middle of North America. Apologies.

03:59:27 [sbp]

pff, if it's a late hour there...

03:59:32 [sbp]

.time CST

03:59:33 [xena]

Apr. 25, 2002 10:59 pm US/Central

04:00:31 [AaronSw]

I think we need an Ashifyer. Like the borkborkbork filter.

04:01:05 [sbp]

WHAT IS TEH ASKIFIER?!?!@

04:01:49 [sbp]

that would be so great

04:01:50 [AaronSw]

in another channel: <AaronSw> touche! (latin for "oooh, dis!")

04:02:09 [walloper]

<lilo> At this point I think one quick bit of network-wide rerouting, including services. This should just take a moment.

04:02:17 [AaronSw]

.wn dis

04:02:21 [sbp]

Google need to introduce it as a language option

04:02:36 [AaronSw]

Well, they already have hax0r

04:03:26 [AaronSw]

cf. http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/

04:03:48 [AaronSw]

my fave is "EyE Am ph33|1n6 |u(ky"

04:03:54 [walloper]

<lilo> Okay, that seems to be everything. We're deliberately leaving most of the US and all of the main rotation out of the rehubbing, just for now, during testing. We hope the new hub will handle load well, and if so we should be able to finish rerouting in the next few days. Thanks for your patience.

04:04:22 [sbp]

shouldn't the MOOey thing be voiced?

04:04:22 [sbp]

it's the color of Swhack, and MOOey in the middle!

04:04:46 [walloper]

<lilo> (And, again, apologies to Australia for accidentally finishing that rerouting at the *wrong* time of day. *sighrin*

04:05:09 [walloper]

<lilo> )

04:11:51 [deltab]

you should see what it has for DCMA-blocked results

04:12:25 [deltab]

G00613, that is

04:13:30 [AaronSw]

ah, goodd idea

04:14:19 [AaronSw]

"y0, 1 0F y3r R3zU|7z vv3R3 DMCA'd! K|1x h34R 2 z33 d@ x0Mpl@1Nt."

04:15:00 [AaronSw]

translation: "yo, 1 of your results were DMCA'd! Click here to see the complaint."

04:15:27 [deltab]

hrm, that's changed

04:15:57 [AaronSw]

what did it used to be?

04:20:03 [sbp]

well, SYGIGH

04:20:04 [sbp]

Gotta run

04:21:34 [deltab]

3r R3zU|7z vv3R3 DMCA'd! K|1x h34R 2 z33 d@

04:21:34 [deltab]

x0Mpl@1Nt."

04:22:12 [deltab]

uh

04:22:43 [deltab]

that's not what I just copied

04:23:31 [deltab]

"y0, K|_|z 0f sU|\/| \/\/h1n|N \/\/3 607 80|_|7 d@ D1617@| |\/|1|_|_3Nn1|_|M K0p33r1t3 4c7, w3 |-|@Ck3d 4 0F y3r R3zU|7z! y00 k@|\| z33 d@ d|\/|C4 \/\/h1n3 4 d@ |\|ux3d 0n3z."

04:35:07 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries to translate

04:49:10 [AaronSw]

.acronym SYGIGH

04:49:14 [xena]

SYGIGH:

04:53:05 [AaronSw]

"yo, kuz of sum whinin w3 got bout da digital millenium kopyrite act, we hacked 4 of yer resultz! yoo kan zee da dmca whinin 4 da nuked onez."

04:58:31 [tansaku_xr]

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05:00:26 [tansaku_xr]

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06:10:01 [SwhackMOO]

SwhackMOO has quit ("[BX] bb bbba bbbba bbbitchx bitchx!!!")

06:10:49 [AaronSw]

g'nite

06:14:12 [tansaku_xr]

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06:34:54 [tansaku_xr]

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06:55:24 [syn|ack_]

syn|ack_ (~synack@210-86-60-137.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack

06:55:32 [syn|ack_]

hi all

06:56:18 [jillium]

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06:56:25 [AaronSw]

hey there jillium.

06:56:28 [jillium]

hey.

06:56:33 [jillium]

you're up late.

06:56:52 [AaronSw]

Yeah, just about to go to bed... waiting for the solutions for my crypto class to print

06:56:53 [jillium]

Oh, did I mention that today is "state the obvious day"?

06:57:05 [AaronSw]

I don't believe so.

06:57:09 [jillium]

Well, Friday is "state the obvious day". It's almost Friday here.

06:57:17 [AaronSw]

It's Friday here.

06:57:23 [jillium]

I know.

06:57:38 [AaronSw]

But "you're up late" isn't always obvious with me. Someone told me that last night and I looked and it was 3AM.

06:57:55 [jillium]

* jillium nods. Yeah, when one gets involved in something.

06:58:19 [jillium]

I, for instance, am attempting to read my entire disk to see if it is having hardware problems.

06:59:21 [AaronSw]

My computer does that on boot. It is annoying, and one reason why I do not like to reboot my computer.

06:59:30 [AaronSw]

Unless you're talking about a bad blocks check.

06:59:39 [jillium]

I'm running a dd over the disk.

06:59:45 [jillium]

So an unofficial bad blocks check.

06:59:58 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw rereads jillium's sentence. It's clearly getting late.

07:01:26 [AaronSw]

Well, good luck. I'm off to bed. Good night.

07:01:33 [jillium]

Heh.

07:01:34 [jillium]

Night.

07:02:00 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw turns up volume on computer so that he will wake up in time for telecon

07:20:01 [tansaku_xr]

is this telecon thing some new software I haven't heard of yet?

07:20:19 [jillium]

hello, tansaku.

07:20:25 [tansaku_xr]

hi jillium

07:20:30 [jillium]

I think he means a teleconference.

07:20:34 [jillium]

Not certain, though.

07:20:46 [tansaku_xr]

yes, he mentioned it on some other channels,

07:20:54 [tansaku_xr]

but he also talks about turning up his computer

07:21:12 [syn|ack_]

* syn|ack_ suspects that is his alarm clock

07:21:18 [tansaku_xr]

so maybe its telephone conference over ip

07:21:27 [tansaku_xr]

synlack_ interesting idea

07:21:30 [tansaku_xr]

.google telecon

07:21:31 [xena]

telecon: http://www.teleconexpos.com

07:22:08 [tansaku_xr]

hmm top return from google can't actually be viewed

07:22:15 [tansaku_xr]

I wonder who's linking to it

07:22:34 [tansaku_xr]

well anyway, I guess AaronSw is getting more and more important by the nano-second

07:22:45 [tansaku_xr]

I've never been asked to take a conference call ....

07:25:00 [tansaku_xr]

guess that's just me then

07:25:05 [tansaku_xr]

catch you guys later

07:25:22 [tansaku_xr]

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10:18:28 [bindog]

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10:18:44 [bindog]

boys n girls

10:22:48 [bindog]

are we still not having fun?

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10:41:09 [synack__]

synack__ is now known as syn|ack_

11:41:11 [bindog]

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11:45:12 [pixel]

* pixel waves (probably at no one)

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12:33:31 [davb]

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13:02:08 [walloper]

<lilo> Bit of rerouting, hopefully off-peak

13:05:44 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Just a reminder: From time to time, non-critical announcements, comments and detailed OPN administrative information can be found on wallops. Set your usermode to +w if you want to see them. Thanks.

13:07:02 [walloper]

<lilo> Rehubbing should be complete. The new main hub is looking fairly stable.

13:12:38 [AaronSw]

heh @ <tansaku_xr> well anyway, I guess AaronSw is getting more and more important by the nano-second

13:13:03 [AaronSw]

I guess I need to come of with a suitable measure of nano-importance

13:14:09 [davb]

good idea.

13:17:33 [AaronSw]

Perhaps measured in fairy cakes...

13:28:19 [Ash]

good morning

13:28:31 [Ash]

FAIRY CAKES, YUM

13:49:06 [AaronSw]

begin

13:51:31 [AaronSw]

heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2002036566426.gif

14:41:51 [Ash_]

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14:41:58 [Ash_]

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14:43:20 [Ash_]

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14:47:55 [Morbus]

[[[

14:47:56 [Morbus]

[10:46] <Morbus> quasi: do you have a site somewhere? i barely know you. must... stalk!

14:47:56 [Morbus]

[10:46] <Morbus> and not celery stalk. i'm talking ski-mask stalk.

14:47:57 [Morbus]

[10:46] <Morbus> ;)

14:47:57 [Morbus]

]]]

14:48:34 [sbp]

heh, heh

14:48:45 [Morbus]

i've been catching myself doing that.

14:48:47 [GreenLantern]

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14:48:54 [Morbus]

a lot lately. saying something like that, and then quantifying it.

14:50:32 [sbp]

how so?

14:50:59 [Morbus]

well, like saying crap like "i'm gonna kick your ass".

14:51:20 [Morbus]

and not your smelly old donkey. i'm talking *your* smelly old vertical smile ass, bitch.

14:51:30 [Morbus]

as a "quick! need an example for sbp!" example.

14:51:45 [sbp]

ooh, 10003 messages in my inbox. time for a clean out, probably

14:51:57 [Morbus]

heh.

14:52:10 [sbp]

donkey vs. ass-crack: aha

14:52:30 [sbp]

all you had to do was add the hyphenated part, and everybody would get it

14:52:40 [sbp]

although it would sound sillier like that. Hmph. I dunno

14:52:55 [Morbus]

yeah, but thats the thing - i've been leaving out info like that so I could continue on with my followup.

14:53:11 [sbp]

I should turn logster off before you start talking about peoples asses

14:53:32 [sbp]

my poor political career

14:53:36 [Morbus]

and you mean vertical smile, not holdings of worthwhile value.

14:53:41 [sbp]

ooh, did you read the swhack faq?

14:53:47 [Morbus]

there's a faq now?

14:53:47 [sbp]

heh, heh

14:53:49 [sbp]

yeah

14:53:54 [Morbus]

man, swhack is getting too business like <G>

14:53:55 [sbp]

http://infomesh.net/2002/swhackfaq/

14:54:05 [sbp]

nooooo! this one is *good*

14:54:09 [Morbus]

patent denied. heh, heh.

14:54:23 [Ash_]

loggy, please don't log our conspiracy plans

14:54:47 [Morbus]

[[[

14:54:48 [Morbus]

[10:47] <quasi> Morbus: all I have is an old dump site at www2.toftum.dk

14:54:48 [Morbus]

[10:50] <quasi> Morbus: maybe something like http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Mads+Toftum%22

14:54:48 [Morbus]

[10:51] <Morbus> your real fn is Mads?

14:54:56 [Morbus]

[10:52] <quasi> Morbus: yep

14:54:56 [Morbus]

[10:52] <Morbus> wow. that's pretty flipping cool.

14:54:56 [Morbus]

[10:52] <Morbus> ;)

14:54:56 [Morbus]

[10:53] <quasi> well, it is a PITA when being in an english speaking country ;)

14:54:56 [Morbus]

[10:53] <Morbus> heh. heh.

14:54:56 [Morbus]

[10:53] <Morbus> i bet you get the "whoa, you pissed, d00d?" all the time ;)

14:54:58 [Morbus]

[10:54] <quasi> I just pretend that I forgot my name ;)

14:55:01 [Morbus]

[10:54] <Morbus> heheh. "uh, no, officer, i'm NOT making fun of you. Mads is uh, short, for um... Madison. Yeah."

14:55:03 [Morbus]

]]]

14:55:37 [Morbus]

lol @ # There will usually be someone on the channel to chat with you. If you enter, and no one talks to you within ten minutes, we're probably all sitting there laughing.

14:55:55 [Morbus]

whoa! i'm famous.

14:56:05 [sbp]

damn right. that's not the only time you're mentioned, either

14:56:06 [Morbus]

oh, btw, it snowed *hard* yesterday. on my birthday. it rocked.

14:56:15 [Morbus]

i laid down the charter. that's so cool ;)

14:56:20 [sbp]

wow, lucky you. get much snow?

14:56:46 [sbp]

you laid down a piece of the swhack charter, for the swhack charter is a strange and intangiable thing!

14:58:38 [Ash_]

* Ash_ prepares to destroy his lunix system

14:58:54 [Ash_]

rpm -Fhv --nodeps /mnt/cdrom/Mandrake/RPMS/*.rpm

14:58:54 [Ash_]

rawr

15:00:51 [Morbus]

hey, the jumping up and down while pregnant part is missing.

15:01:23 [Ash_]

Morbus: That's only when it's close to your due date

15:01:28 [Ash_]

jump on a trampoline

15:04:35 [Morbus]

looking like a xoot. bwahahah

15:04:46 [Morbus]

you should add something in there about the insane amount of in-jokes.

15:04:53 [Ash_]

See, I live in the land of pregnancy

15:04:56 [Ash_]

Utah

15:05:00 [Morbus]

and that we're fast past the swhack elitism stage, in a new realm of closed circuit swhackavision.

15:05:22 [Ash_]

* Ash_ is in closed circuit elitism stage

15:05:43 [Morbus]

hehehehe.

15:05:48 [Morbus]

"fuck with someone's quote deely".

15:07:00 [Morbus]

bwahahahaha: "# Should one of the members of the channel start virtually humping your leg, do not be alarmed. This is simply Morbus"

15:07:06 [Morbus]

oh man, that shit is classic.

15:07:36 [sbp]

:-)

15:08:03 [Ash_]

* Ash_ iconifies you guys so he can get work done

15:08:04 [Ash_]

later

15:08:05 [Morbus]

0h,m you do have an injoke thing already in there. kick ass.

15:08:18 [sbp]

where? where?!

15:22:07 [Morbus]

"In-jokes are like little beams of sunshine in an otherwise cloudy channel, and references to obscure," etc...

15:22:07 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:22:07 [sbp]

couldn't leave out a tip about injokes

15:22:07 [Morbus]

"references to obscure, esoteric, or simply outdated material are welcomed with open arms"

15:22:07 [Morbus]

that's great. this is good :)

15:22:07 [sbp]

swhackfaq reviews: "great. good" - Morbus Iff Times; "exispeciferous" - The sbp Review

15:22:07 [quasi]

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15:22:07 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

15:22:07 [Morbus]

quasi! :)

15:22:07 [quasi]

Morbus!

15:22:07 [sbp]

Mads!

15:22:07 [Morbus]

sbp: i mentioned the MorboHumpathon to quasi ;)

15:22:07 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:22:07 [pixel]

pixel has quit ("http://www.perceive.net/")

15:22:07 [sbp]

and Morbus clearly mentioned the Mads thing to me

15:22:07 [Morbus]

yes, swhack is a dumping ground for things we all find humorous ;)

15:22:07 [sbp]

like glow-in-the-dark watermelons

15:22:07 [sbp]

so, quasi, what are yo bout, dude? sup wit you? what's yer haps?

15:22:07 [Morbus]

he's on the phone.

15:22:07 [sbp]

gah

15:22:07 [Morbus]

gah, indeed.

15:22:07 [Morbus]

we need an intro bot.

15:22:07 [sbp]

swhack: less important than a phone call from a double glazing salesman

15:22:07 [Morbus]

something like "introbot: tell me about sbp".

15:22:07 [Morbus]

or rather, perhaps a "Who's Who" document.

15:22:07 [Morbus]

so we can stroke our own egos to newcomers.

15:22:07 [sbp]

heh; I did that ages ago!

15:22:07 [Morbus]

[[[

15:22:07 [Morbus]

[11:19] *** Signoff: Aqualung_ ("Poof! I'm gone")

15:22:07 [Morbus]

[11:20] <Morbus> Poof: The sound your lungs make when your Aqualung signs off.

15:22:07 [Morbus]

]]]

15:22:07 [Morbus]

really? where at?

15:22:07 [sbp]

on #swhack

15:22:07 [sbp]

I reviewed everyone

15:22:07 [Morbus]

oh, right, right.

15:22:07 [sbp]

* sbp goes-a-greppin'

15:22:07 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

15:29:41 [sbp]

http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-14.txt 00:00:38 and above

15:29:42 [sbp]

and below

15:29:42 [sbp]

pff, it would be split across two logs, wouldn't it?

15:29:42 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

15:29:42 [sbp]

heh: "i shall assault your geriatric misspellings!"

15:29:42 [Morbus]

i like that line.

15:29:42 [Morbus]

deja vu. weird.

15:29:42 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:29:42 [sbp]

well, it had a trailing newline, and I wanted to put the closing quote on it

15:29:42 [Morbus]

[[[

15:29:42 [Morbus]

[11:25] *** Signoff: HolyGoat ("*burp*")

15:29:42 [Morbus]

[11:26] <Morbus> Burp: The sound your goat makes after eating an aqualung.

15:29:42 [Morbus]

]]]

15:29:42 [sbp]

Homer: She said burlap!

15:56:35 [quasi]

* quasi puts down the phone and goes looking for a replacement ear ;)

15:56:51 [sbp]

and he doesn't mean ear of corn, eh Morb?

15:57:19 [Morbus]

heh, heh!

15:57:20 [Morbus]

exactly.

15:57:31 [quasi]

I don't think so - but it would definetely be a good addition to my dinner ;)

15:57:43 [Morbus]

im about to head out for lunchy lunch now.

15:58:31 [quasi]

05:58PM here - I think I missed breakfast and lunch ;)

15:58:41 [Morbus]

holy crap!

15:58:45 [Morbus]

i'm no where near lunch.

15:58:46 [sbp]

Morb: heh, Keanu Reeves whispered in your ear, did he?

15:58:50 [Morbus]

i thought it was like 12:40.

15:58:56 [Morbus]

its only 12. goddamn, this day is going slow.

15:59:12 [Morbus]

i mentioned keanu twice in my articles. its like i'm sleeping with him almost.

15:59:24 [Morbus]

.time est

15:59:24 [xena]

Apr. 26, 2002 11:59 am US/Eastern

15:59:28 [Morbus]

* Morbus groans.

15:59:36 [Morbus]

all hope of my clock being wrong is gone. stupid xena.

16:00:01 [quasi]

this being an official holiday and about one week into my vacation, my sense of time is already b0rken

16:00:24 [Morbus]

are you vacationing? or just relaxing?

16:01:06 [quasi]

relaxing at home - I just discovered that I had three weeks of vacation left before May 1st

16:01:44 [Morbus]

oooh. send some my way.

16:02:29 [quasi]

Morbus: wish I could - I get another 6 weeks starting in may and one year ahead

16:04:57 [quasi]

with the two extra weeks I didn't use before May 1st - that is a total of 8 weeks ... /me wonders how to do them all within one year

16:05:32 [Morbus]

vacation to nh. we'll bust out App::OnlineUpdate ;)

16:06:22 [quasi]

Morbus: my next .us trip isn't before september at the earliest

16:07:32 [quasi]

Morbus: would it make sense to describe the contents of a software package in something like RSS?

16:08:29 [quasi]

i.e. a name,path,md5 for each file in the package

16:09:09 [deltab]

don't let the XML in XML-RPC fool you :-)/jomadd web

16:09:16 [deltab]

bleh

16:09:25 [Morbus]

well, if anyone in here had their way, it'd be rdf.

16:09:46 [Morbus]

but, if we did that, quasi, I'd want to make sure we do a regexp xml parser, and not XML::RSS or XML::Parser.

16:10:18 [Morbus]

otherwise, installing App::OU would involve installing those modules, which involve installing the expat parser.

16:10:26 [Morbus]

which is a headache if its not already on the machine.

16:10:30 [quasi]

rss,rdf - both are just three letter acronyms beginning with r if you ask me ;)

16:10:35 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

16:11:06 [Morbus]

i mean, the content package stuff wouldn't be complicated xml, so we should be able to do regexps just fine with it.

16:12:29 [Ash_]

Ash_ has quit ("REBOOT FOR KERBEROS")

16:13:12 [quasi]

it would be nice if we could just borrow an xml parser, but I suppose they all need a big ugly library :(

16:13:48 [Morbus]

well, XML::SAX supposedly doesn't need expat - it comes with ::PurePerl or some such.

16:13:52 [Morbus]

i've never used it before though.

16:14:10 [Morbus]

quasi: yeah, most XML parsers in perl do need expat.

16:14:37 [sektall]

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16:14:42 [Morbus]

it wouldn't make much of a difference for ampheta, since i bundle expat into the exe, but i'm just thinking of others.

16:14:57 [Morbus]

if this is gonna be as "good" as CPAN, then it'd need to rely on default 5.6.1 only, I think.

16:15:10 [quasi]

yeah, true

16:16:29 [sektall]

sektall has quit ()

16:16:30 [Morbus]

last I knew Net:: didn't come with 5.6.1, so we coudl either do IO::Socket (heh!) or do the same sorta CPAN thing (which doesn't translate well the Macs)

16:16:42 [Morbus]

ie, looking for common ftp programs, then Net::FTP, etc.

16:16:51 [Morbus]

for downloading the packages, I mean.

16:17:10 [quasi]

* quasi is beginning to think that a slightly hacked version of CPAN might do the trick

16:17:53 [Morbus]

yeah, that'd be my approach, just adding backups, reversion, etc.

16:18:01 [Morbus]

maybe we don't need a software package file.

16:18:15 [Morbus]

er, xml file, I mean.

16:18:38 [Morbus]

just point it to a directory of updates, let it pick the latest one based on the config it's been passed by the code, and go from there

16:18:57 [quasi]

yes

16:19:03 [Morbus]

the downside, of course, is applications who's NEW updates require OTHER modules.

16:19:12 [Morbus]

i'm not sure how we'd handle that non-interactively.

16:20:12 [quasi]

cpan supports following dependencies

16:20:24 [Morbus]

right, but you have to be a priveleged user.

16:20:45 [Morbus]

an end user isn't gonna get root access just so they can update amphetadesk, for example.

16:20:50 [quasi]

install in another dir

16:21:24 [Morbus]

in that case, the enduser app would have to specify that other dir in INC.

16:21:34 [quasi]

yes

16:21:38 [Morbus]

what if people "forgot".

16:21:45 [Morbus]

ooh. bad use of quotes, morbo.

16:22:26 [Morbus]

ignore that what if.

16:22:37 [Morbus]

if theyre gonna do something like that, they should know to cater to it.

16:22:39 [Ash_]

Ash_ (~amathews@166.70.121.30) has joined #swhack

16:23:40 [SethR]

SethR has quit ()

16:24:07 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

16:24:10 [Morbus]

cpan's 153k.

16:24:12 [Morbus]

this will be fun.

16:24:52 [quasi]

Morbus: or we could just wrap it in something that sets a sane perllib

16:25:33 [Morbus]

what do you mean?

16:27:50 [quasi]

add a BEGIN line that fixes PERL5LIB

16:28:31 [Morbus]

to APP::OU? how does that pass to the end-user app?

16:29:34 [Morbus]

ugh.

16:29:38 [Morbus]

CPAN code is convoluted.

16:32:48 [sbp]

.py import time; print "@%i" % (((time.time()+3600)%86400)/86.4)

16:32:48 [xena]

@731

16:37:03 [quasi]

quasi has quit ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!")

16:38:32 [AaronSw-lfc]

AaronSw-lfc (~lfcuser@phaser740.lfc.edu) has joined #swhack

16:39:21 [AaronSw-lfc]

* AaronSw-lfc waves

16:43:59 [Morbus]

evening AaronSw-lfc.

16:44:19 [AaronSw-lfc]

morning

16:46:28 [quasi]

quasi (~toftum@tigerdyr.wheel.dk) has joined #swhack

16:48:45 [AaronSw-lfc]

hello, quasi

16:49:23 [AaronSw-lfc]

http://infomesh.net/2002/swhackfaq/

16:49:38 [quasi]

hey AaronSw-lfc

16:51:44 [AaronSw-lfc]

@ http://www.hpl.hp.com/shl/papers/smallworld/smallworldpaper.html

16:52:02 [AaronSw-lfc]

you might want to read the FAQ if this is your first time here, quasi

16:52:22 [chumpy]

B: http://www.hpl.hp.com/shl/papers/smallworld/smallworldpaper.html from AaronSw-lfc

16:52:39 [AaronSw-lfc]

B:

16:52:47 [AaronSw-lfc]

B:|The Small World Web

16:53:08 [chumpy]

titled item B

16:53:11 [AaronSw-lfc]

B::'Small world networks which have already been identified are the collaboration graph of actors in feature films, the neural network of the nematode worm C. elegans, and the electrical grid of the western United States [1]. In this paper I show that the World Wide Web is a small world as well, in that the largest connected component of sites forms a small world network.'

16:53:29 [chumpy]

commented item B

16:54:14 [quasi]

* quasi runs away screaming ;)

16:55:20 [quasi]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020422/168/1fjje.html

16:55:33 [quasi]

ups, sorry - wrong place for that ;)

16:56:01 [quasi]

* quasi disables copy-paste

16:59:31 [quasi]

Morbus?

17:07:23 [AaronSw-lfc]

lol! mnot: "The Web shows me something new and amazing every day. For example, because of projects like archive.org, JordanB's children will be able to look back into time and see exactly what kind of jackass their father was..."

17:14:22 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

17:15:13 [redmonk]

mornin swhackers

17:16:22 [AaronSw-lfc]

morning

17:16:59 [AaronSw-lfc]

AaronSw-lfc has changed the topic to: <AaronSw> eb Services craziness is in the air. It's making me sick.

17:17:05 [AaronSw-lfc]

AaronSw-lfc has changed the topic to: <AaronSw> Web Services craziness is in the air. It's making me sick.

17:19:47 [AaronSw-lfc]

It scares me sometimes that Web Services might actually take off.

17:20:11 [AaronSw-lfc]

Heh, what a weird thing to say.

17:20:21 [AaronSw-lfc]

I guess I'm full of Stop Energy.

17:20:59 [deltab]

I don't remeber that from Physics

17:21:04 [deltab]

is it new?

17:21:33 [AaronSw-lfc]

Yeah, apparently it comes from a little house in California.

17:21:37 [redmonk]

it's DWPhysics

17:22:32 [AaronSw-lfc]

They left out the bit about objects at REST.

17:25:54 [AaronSw-lfc]

OK, I so have to respond to this:

17:25:57 [AaronSw-lfc]

"The REST camp suffers from the same problem that plagues the Semantic Web camp (though not to the same degree): a failure to present their ideas in a way that is accessible to The Average Web Developer."

17:26:01 [AaronSw-lfc]

- http://www.advogato.org/article/464.html

17:26:08 [AaronSw-lfc]

with a link to my rest and sw for AWD article

17:26:30 [walloper]

<lilo> Recently removed servers: bing (hub), butler, sagan....connectivity issues ("flapping")

17:27:00 [AaronSw-lfc]

sagan is gone? :(

17:28:38 [davb]

AaronSw-lfc: the article is there, but is it really getting out to average web developers?

17:29:06 [AaronSw-lfc]

No, that's why I must promote it. ;-)

17:29:38 [AaronSw-lfc]

Let me know if you have any ideas on how to get it out there.

17:29:48 [AaronSw-lfc]

I'm thinking of maybe XML.com...

17:30:07 [davb]

ah.

17:31:14 [AaronSw-lfc]

I better run... c'ya at home.

17:31:17 [AaronSw-lfc]

AaronSw-lfc has quit ()

17:38:36 [Morbus]

* Morbus returns.

17:38:44 [redmonk]

morbie!!

17:38:47 [Morbus]

monk!

17:38:53 [Morbus]

how are ya?

17:38:57 [redmonk]

doin well

17:39:07 [redmonk]

released a new version of my weblog posting tool last night

17:39:10 [redmonk]

well, posted it

17:39:18 [redmonk]

not sure if you'd call it a "release"

17:39:18 [Morbus]

oh yeah?

17:39:21 [redmonk]

yeah

17:39:25 [redmonk]

cocoa java

17:39:41 [Morbus]

sid?

17:39:47 [redmonk]

posts to Conversant sites (http://www.free-conversant.com)

17:39:49 [redmonk]

yes

17:39:54 [Morbus]

ah. i rememner Conversatn.

17:39:59 [redmonk]

via xmlrpc

17:40:02 [Morbus]

er, I know of Conversant.

17:40:07 [redmonk]

Conversant has come a long way

17:40:13 [redmonk]

it's pretty impressive now

17:40:20 [Morbus]

are the iconfactory icons free? or you had it done for you?

17:40:29 [redmonk]

no it was one of the free sets

17:40:42 [redmonk]

i just downloaded sets until found an icon i liked

17:40:56 [Morbus]

and this was done in cocoa java?

17:41:00 [redmonk]

yes

17:41:04 [Morbus]

huh.

17:41:24 [Morbus]

* Morbus looks for source code...

17:41:53 [Morbus]

argh. redmonk sidebar tab doesn't seem to work in 1.0rc1

17:42:02 [quasi]

Morbus: to continue the discussion from before (when my connection broke)

17:42:10 [Morbus]

would you believe that I still haven't tried your OO stuff?

17:42:19 [Morbus]

i meant to yesterday, but then forgot I was supposed to relax.

17:42:36 [quasi]

the place to fix perllib would be in the app that you installed

17:42:37 [Morbus]

* Morbus nods to quasi.

17:42:43 [Morbus]

ah. right. ok.

17:43:05 [Morbus]

yah, in previous apps in the past, i've just added a lib dir and then use lib'd it.

17:43:25 [quasi]

I've done that several times with stuff where test and prod environments differed

17:43:27 [Morbus]

redmonk: this sid thingy doesn't look half bad.

17:43:32 [redmonk]

thanks

17:43:34 [redmonk]

;-)

17:43:57 [Morbus]

is modifying the perllib similar to adding to inc?

17:44:02 [redmonk]

the sidebar works fine for me

17:44:03 [Morbus]

i've not dealt with perlib before.

17:44:12 [redmonk]

(build 2002042412

17:44:13 [redmonk]

)

17:44:19 [quasi]

Morbus: same difference ;)

17:44:19 [Morbus]

redmonk: i disabled some javascript stuff. maybe that's casuing it.

17:44:31 [redmonk]

ah yes

17:44:43 [Morbus]

i've got "open unreq windows" off

17:44:48 [redmonk]

i don't know how to add it sans javascript

17:44:50 [Morbus]

and "move or resize off".

17:44:53 [redmonk]

hm.

17:45:05 [Morbus]

hrm. still didn't work.

17:45:08 [Morbus]

lemme restart mo.

17:45:08 [redmonk]

view source on my home page you'll see the code

17:45:37 [Morbus]

quasi: the more i dip into the cpan code, the more i feel like... .. it'd be overkill to just cut and paste it.

17:45:58 [Morbus]

i keep thinking of a much smaller module. like 200-300 lines.

17:46:22 [Morbus]

redmonk: yeah, a restart did it.

17:47:50 [quasi]

Morbus: the stuff my friends use for ordb.org just checks for a new version, downloads, checks md5, unpacks, and then -HUP's itself

17:48:34 [Morbus]

yeah, that's about all I'd want, with reversion being a simple "run the same code again only with this old update".

17:48:49 [Morbus]

i used to use ordb as a dnsbl a while back.

17:48:56 [Morbus]

too many fositives. people kept complaining.

17:49:23 [Morbus]

quasi: is your friends code public?

17:49:41 [quasi]

Morbus: I can guarantee that it is only confirmed relays (as I helped write it)

17:50:07 [quasi]

Morbus: I'll see if I can steal something from cvs ;)

17:52:33 [Morbus]

ultimately, I would love to block relays on my end just due to the moron quotient.

17:53:28 [quasi]

Morbus: if you could live with having to manually run a rollback script if the update failed, then the backup could simply be: copy the working app to backupdir, install the update, restart and then hey presto we're in business ;)

17:53:52 [Morbus]

yah, i'd want to tweak the manual stuff.

17:54:01 [Morbus]

at least ofr ampheta, the plan is to have the update code compiled into the wrapper binary.

17:54:11 [Morbus]

and then it'd eval the libraries at each start.

17:54:22 [Morbus]

if they don't load correctly, than somethings' wrong, so revert to the last known working copy.

17:54:30 [Morbus]

the end user should never know something evil happened.

17:56:16 [Morbus]

heh.

17:56:59 [Morbus]

i've been having good luck with spamcop's rbl.

17:57:22 [Morbus]

The formmail and open proxy rbl's I just added are only catching like 20 a day, compared to about 1500-3000 on spamcop;

17:57:33 [Morbus]

my invalid message-id filter is catching 1500 which is far more than i expectec

17:58:47 [quasi]

the proxy trick has become much more popular within the last couple of months :(

18:03:10 [Morbus]

i've been meaning to try spamsassin and vipul's. haven't had time yet.

18:04:10 [AaronSw]

It's not hard to see why Ken MacLeod is so popular.

18:05:07 [AaronSw]

His book, Cosmonaut Keep starts like this:

18:05:07 [AaronSw]

"""

18:05:08 [AaronSw]

[Chatper] 0

18:05:08 [AaronSw]

Prologue

18:05:08 [AaronSw]

You're not here. Try to remember this.

18:05:08 [AaronSw]

Try not to remember where you really are.

18:05:10 [AaronSw]

You are in a twisty maze of dark corridors, all alike.

18:05:12 [AaronSw]

"""

18:05:53 [quasi]

a reincarnation of Douglas Adams?

18:06:33 [AaronSw]

No, he's not as silly.

18:06:41 [AaronSw]

Far more serious and futuristic.

18:08:42 [quasi]

Peter F. Hamilton like?

18:09:09 [AaronSw]

I don't know PFH.

18:10:17 [quasi]

AaronSw: The Neutrino Alchemist (Nights Dawn Trilogy) is some of the best recet SciFi IMHO

18:12:16 [SethR]

SethR (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

18:18:29 [quasi]

The term space opera has evolved over the decades. Originally it meant "hacky, grinding, stinking, outworn, spaceship yarn" (Wilson Tucker), but since then it has come to be (slightly) less pejorative, encompassing any science fiction action story on an interplanetary or interstellar scale. The Reality Dysfunction rests firmly in the space-opera camp with its intense starship combat, roguish space captains, and raw frontier planets, but Peter Hamilton keep

18:18:30 [quasi]

te with an infusion of "modern" science fiction technology. His universe is digitally and nanotechnologically savvy, which helps create new perils and plot twists.

18:18:56 [AaronSw]

Wow, Steve sent me a personal invitation to WWDC. ;-)

18:19:15 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

18:19:18 [Morbus]

first name basis, Ash?

18:19:22 [Morbus]

argh.

18:19:24 [AaronSw]

My name is not Ash.

18:19:24 [Morbus]

stupid autocomplete.

18:19:34 [Morbus]

yeah, I meant A<TAB>

18:19:50 [Morbus]

i haven't read scifi in forever.

18:20:01 [Morbus]

i haven't read a fiction book in forever. its pathetic.

18:22:56 [AaronSw]

On lining up for Episode II: "Minus the amenities of a shower and a bathroom nearby, it's a vacation."

18:42:58 [talli]

talli (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

18:43:14 [talli]

heeelllooo fellow alien comrades

18:43:36 [talli]

just wanted to alert you all to a preliminary Momentum FAQ

18:43:45 [talli]

http://www.museatech.net/faq/momentum

18:43:52 [talli]

what? no chump?

18:44:08 [AaronSw]

you need to put an "@ " in front to chump

18:44:12 [talli]

ah, ok

18:44:22 [talli]

@http://www.museatech.net/faq/momentum

18:44:30 [AaronSw]

@ <space>

18:44:41 [talli]

@ http://www.museatech.net/faq/momentum

18:44:44 [AaronSw]

there you go

18:44:45 [talli]

so friggin' picky

18:44:50 [Morbus]

omg.

18:44:51 [talli]

and how does one comment it?

18:44:53 [Morbus]

AaronSw, you'll never guess.

18:44:57 [Morbus]

Steve invited me *too*!

18:45:01 [Morbus]

we must be pretty special.

18:45:06 [AaronSw]

wow!

18:45:21 [chumpy]

C: http://www.museatech.net/faq/momentum from talli

18:45:26 [AaronSw]

C:|Momentum FAQ

18:45:32 [AaronSw]

C::Another talli thingamabob

18:45:40 [talli]

hey now

18:45:47 [chumpy]

titled item C

18:46:07 [chumpy]

commented item C

18:49:17 [redmonk]

swhackers: i need a canonical URI for WOT

18:49:41 [AaronSw]

xmlns.com/0.1/wot/?

18:50:53 [redmonk]

hm. not schema, concept

18:51:21 [AaronSw]

ah

18:51:40 [AaronSw]

i sorta described it in 6171talk

18:53:18 [redmonk]

hm.

18:53:35 [redmonk]

I'm introducing the idea in a post on redmonk.net, and i need a link

18:54:15 [AaronSw]

hold on...

18:55:21 [AaronSw]

are we talking PGP or SW web of trust?

18:55:44 [AaronSw]

here's a short desc. of SW: http://www.epinions.com/help/faq/show_~faq_wot#001

18:55:49 [AaronSw]

epinions is all rdf-based, btw

18:55:57 [AaronSw]

here's PGP: http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/weboftrust.en.html

18:55:57 [redmonk]

based?

18:55:59 [redmonk]

coooool

18:56:06 [AaronSw]

err http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/weboftrust

18:56:11 [AaronSw]

yeah, it all runs on big rdf dbs

18:56:22 [redmonk]

ok, that's way cool

18:56:26 [redmonk]

what software?

18:56:32 [AaronSw]

rdfdb, i think

18:56:42 [redmonk]

java? python?

18:56:45 [AaronSw]

c

18:56:50 [redmonk]

ooooh, but of course

19:08:28 [redmonk]

heh

19:12:30 [AaronSw]

i still love this quote: "The Web shows me something new and amazing every day. For example, because of projects like archive.org, JordanB's children will be able to look back into time and see exactly what kind of jackass their father was..."

19:12:44 [AaronSw]

- mnot

19:15:34 [redmonk]

Anyone know what this "Jaguar" that The Steve mentions is supposed to include?

19:15:38 [AaronSw]

in response to JordanB: "Parenting is not having enough control over your primitive impulses to procreate to put a rubber on before you fuck, nothing more."

19:16:13 [redmonk]

daaaamn

19:16:17 [redmonk]

that's harsh

19:16:29 [AaronSw]

yeah.

19:16:33 [AaronSw]

ooh, i got burned:

19:16:37 [AaronSw]

>> your title got adjusted to a more general "Metadata Advisor" -- is that ok?

19:16:37 [AaronSw]

> Fine with me. ;-) It could be "Meddling Kid" for all I care.

19:16:38 [AaronSw]

well that would be a more accurate title anyway :-)

19:16:56 [redmonk]

ouch

19:16:58 [deltab]

from?

19:17:04 [AaronSw]

the creative commons folks

19:17:14 [deltab]

what was it before?

19:17:18 [AaronSw]

RDF Advisor

19:17:30 [deltab]

ah, yeah

19:20:35 [AaronSw]

<mnot> I'm trying to use airport names instead of TLAs when naming; so much more personal.

19:20:58 [deltab]

when naming what? airports?

19:21:04 [AaronSw]

software

19:22:02 [AaronSw]

He's gonna name is REST toolkit Tarawa, a capital which "US Marines took the islands from the Japanese after bitter fighting"

19:22:07 [AaronSw]

sounds like a good metaphor

19:22:23 [AaronSw]

wel, half decent anyway

19:22:49 [AaronSw]

wow, there's an RSS reader for the Newton

19:22:54 [deltab]

the XML Peril?

19:23:17 [AaronSw]

hm?

19:24:07 [Morbus]

yeah, i had heard of that Ash

19:24:09 [Morbus]

AaronSw.

19:24:10 [Morbus]

dammit.

19:25:07 [deltab]

oh, that was the Chinese

19:25:20 [AaronSw]

ah

19:25:41 [AaronSw]

(Big Money|US Marines) took the (island|web). "We have real work to do, silly (savages|academics)" said (General Somedude|Anne Thomas Manes).

19:26:05 [AaronSw]

I met Anne Thomas Manes at p2pcon2. I should have taken the opportunity to yell at her.

19:29:30 [deltab]

or was it?

19:30:17 [AaronSw]

.google semantic

19:30:18 [xena]

semantic: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw

19:30:36 [Morbus]

AaronSw: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/20020425.html

19:30:50 [deltab]

ah, Asiatic peoples in general

19:31:39 [AaronSw]

Hm.

19:39:26 [AaronSw]

why's sid got the weird gray bg instead of the usual white striped?

19:39:38 [AaronSw]

what's it written in? java?

19:39:46 [redmonk]

it's cocoa java

19:39:53 [redmonk]

the backround is due to my theme

19:39:58 [redmonk]

SilverFox

19:40:02 [AaronSw]

you use themes?

19:40:06 [redmonk]

yeah

19:40:22 [redmonk]

it's faster than aqua - less transparency

19:40:49 [AaronSw]

that violates wmf's first rule of screenshots

19:41:02 [redmonk]

wmf can kiss my screenshot

19:41:05 [redmonk]

;-)

19:41:06 [AaronSw]

what else is your processor going to do if it doesn't need to draw transparency?!?

19:41:33 [AaronSw]

how did I get on the pbforth list?

19:42:28 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

19:42:44 [talli]

hey AaronSw, you see that there is a CMS conference in Chicago in June?

19:42:48 [AaronSw]

I get this a lot: "Projecting 2012 for the Singularity, huh? That strikes me as a bit early"

19:42:51 [AaronSw]

CMS conference? where? link?

19:43:00 [Morbus]

Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

19:43:05 [talli]

are you on the not so hot camworld CMS list?

19:43:15 [AaronSw]

no

19:43:17 [talli]

(lots of people talking about how XML/XSLT are taking over the world)

19:43:21 [talli]

lemme find it for you

19:43:28 [AaronSw]

i used to be on it, i think

19:44:56 [davb]

hey

19:44:59 [davb]

thanks talli

19:45:05 [davb]

i got booted off when my email broke.

19:45:09 [davb]

i need to re sign up

19:45:26 [talli]

@ http://www.asis.org/cm/

19:45:34 [davb]

talli: out chump is different

19:45:42 [davb]

http://www.asis.org/cm/

19:46:03 [chumpy]

D: http://www.asis.org/cm/ from talli

19:46:10 [talli]

davb: Content Management Symposium

19:46:10 [talli]

Chicago, IL | June 28 - 30, 2002

19:46:10 [talli]

Chicago Marriott O' Hare

19:46:14 [davb]

oops, wrong channel :)

19:46:31 [talli]

davb: Chicago, IL | June 28 - 30, 2002

19:46:35 [talli]

damn

19:46:37 [talli]

oh well

19:46:45 [AaronSw]

2nd telecon of the day in 15 min

19:46:47 [Morbus]

ooh.

19:46:51 [Morbus]

there's a cms channel? where?

19:46:58 [talli]

@ D: Content Management Symposium

19:46:58 [talli]

Chicago,IL | June 28 - 30, 2002 Chicago Marriott O' Hare

19:47:10 [talli]

cms mailing list

19:47:27 [talli]

it's kind of only ok

19:47:32 [AaronSw]

D:|Content Management Symposium, Chicago IL, June 28 - 30 2002

19:47:48 [chumpy]

titled item D

19:49:03 [talli]

thanks

19:49:22 [AaronSw]

AccordianGuy called me the Barry White of the bots.

19:49:24 [talli]

i might go to this. if i do, i'll set up an OACS social in Chicago then

19:49:26 [talli]

sound good?

19:49:35 [AaronSw]

sounds good to me... let me check my calendar

19:49:52 [talli]

the conference is a bit heavy on the lame large CMS vendors like Interwoven

19:50:17 [AaronSw]

Heh, there's soemone from inerwove on the rdf wg

19:50:45 [talli]

so interwoven is going to use rdf, or they just stuck them on it?

19:50:51 [talli]

or he just happens to work for them

19:50:52 [talli]

?

19:51:22 [AaronSw]

interwoven uses rdf because of PRISM

19:51:56 [talli]

what's that?

19:52:16 [AaronSw]

prismstandard.org

19:52:23 [AaronSw]

it's the other other syndication spec

19:52:39 [talli]

ah, ok

19:52:43 [AaronSw]

(PRISM, ICE, RSS)

19:53:12 [AaronSw]

those dates look clear. there's a fast on the day before, though

19:54:23 [talli]

what for?

19:54:27 [redmonk]

*Sigh*. Somebody stop me. I had to add a new feature to Sid

19:54:31 [redmonk]

I can't stop

19:54:35 [AaronSw]

:-)

19:54:45 [AaronSw]

talli, it's the 17th of tammuz

19:55:04 [talli]

so you're very observent :)

19:55:08 [redmonk]

but of course it is...

19:55:19 [talli]

i assume you're a member of Chabad?

19:55:29 [AaronSw]

how'd you guess?

19:56:21 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw dons headset, looks for phone number

19:59:23 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw grooves to telecon hold music

19:59:31 [redmonk]

heh

19:59:34 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

19:59:42 [Morbus]

i wish i had a picture of you in your headset.

19:59:44 [Morbus]

that'd be saucy.

19:59:46 [AaronSw]

The W3C's hold music is this french yodeler

19:59:49 [AaronSw]

it's hilarious

20:00:02 [AaronSw]

these people have some silly muzak

20:00:21 [AaronSw]

with stupid "tips"

20:00:27 [AaronSw]

like "call from a quiet location with few distractions"

20:00:29 [AaronSw]

y'thinK?

20:07:12 [redmonk]

heh

20:07:47 [sbp]

heh

20:08:09 [sbp]

* sbp waves

20:09:19 [AaronSw]

<telecon>

20:09:24 [AaronSw]

hey there, sbp

20:09:56 [redmonk]

yo sbp

20:09:57 [redmonk]

wb

20:11:29 [redmonk]

well, I have it... ;-)

20:11:49 [redmonk]

(from our art department)

20:11:53 [sbp]

ty

20:12:00 [redmonk]

i'll ask next time i see my source

20:12:59 [redmonk]

lol

20:13:52 [AaronSw]

[OLW]

20:19:29 [sbp]

cool - Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Venus, and Mercury are all visible

20:20:07 [sbp]

it's such a crisp clear night out

20:20:16 [Morbus]

sbp: it snowed yesterday here.

20:20:21 [Morbus]

beautiful. big slow lazy flakes.

20:20:27 [Morbus]

you could look up and follow the path of each one.

20:24:25 [davb]

davb has left #swhack

20:24:38 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit (Remote closed the connection)

20:25:02 [Morbus]

[[[

20:25:03 [Morbus]

Sex for Dummies (For Dummies)

20:25:03 [Morbus]

Excerpt:

20:25:03 [Morbus]

20:25:03 [Morbus]

1. Unzip fly

20:25:03 [Morbus]

2. Remove male’s penis. Do not remove from male’s body. Just from pants.

20:25:04 [Morbus]

3. Insert penis.

20:25:06 [Morbus]

4. Yeah like that.

20:25:10 [Morbus]

5. Harder!

20:25:10 [Morbus]

6. That’s the shit I’m talking about...

20:25:12 [Morbus]

7. Aw yeah...

20:25:14 [Morbus]

]]]

20:25:29 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

20:25:41 [sbp]

aw rm, you just missed "Sex for Dummies"

20:25:42 [Morbus]

wb

20:25:52 [redmonk]

hm.

20:26:34 [Morbus]

deus_x: funny thing.

20:26:38 [Morbus]

concerning your hotpatches thing.

20:33:48 [Morbus]

just had an interesting conversation about clones.

20:33:53 [Morbus]

"i can't wait until i have clones"

20:33:58 [Morbus]

"then i can get more work done"

20:34:05 [Morbus]

"well, no, wait. i'd probably get jealous of my clone"

20:34:16 [Morbus]

"cos like, if i was workign on this, and he was reading this book I wanted"

20:34:21 [Morbus]

"i'd get pissed that he read it or not"

20:34:27 [Morbus]

"and then i'd probably kill him"

20:34:32 [Morbus]

"and be charged with my own murder"

20:34:40 [Morbus]

"which would probably set a legal precent".

20:34:44 [Morbus]

"huh. dammit. this sucks".

20:34:46 [Morbus]

]]]

20:36:32 [AaronSw]

Heh.

20:43:46 [Morbus]

dammit.

20:55:18 [sbp]

Gotta run

21:06:22 [Ash_]

Ash_ is now known as THX-1138

21:10:01 [AaronSw]

</telecon>

21:10:51 [quasi]

Morbus: maybe just attaching another pair of hands and eyes would be better than the clone stuff?

21:17:06 [jillzilla]

jillzilla is now known as xoot

21:17:20 [xoot]

xoot is now known as jillzilla

21:18:29 [collord]

collord (~collord@dsl-209-162-215-237.easystreet.com) has joined #swhack

21:26:30 [Morbus]

wow.

21:26:40 [Morbus]

i never new about <acronym> and title="" and how moz expands them

21:26:47 [Morbus]

ala diveintomark.com

21:27:06 [Morbus]

its abusive, but couldn't you use this for other things? definitions, injoke explanations, etc?

21:27:29 [AaronSw]

aah, attack of the xoot

21:27:39 [Morbus]

hmm?

21:27:43 [AaronSw]

*** jillzilla is now known as xoot

21:27:57 [AaronSw]

yeah, people use <a title> (with no href) to do that all the time.

21:28:02 [AaronSw]

it's not abusive at all

21:28:12 [AaronSw]

IEMac expands them too

21:28:15 [Morbus]

quasi: perhaps, but then i'd have to use 22% of my brain to handle the duel tasks.

21:28:21 [Morbus]

AaronSw: you sure? i mean, they're not acryonym's.

21:28:36 [AaronSw]

that's why you use <a> not <acronym>

21:28:52 [AaronSw]

<a> is for any kind of text (anchors, links, expansions)

21:29:46 [Morbus]

yeah, but this seems to pop up quicker than an alt.

21:29:50 [Morbus]

does it do the same thing on a's?

21:30:03 [Morbus]

what if I didn't want a link. are empty href's allowed?

21:30:25 [quasi]

Morbus: since you're only using 10 - 20% of it already, there should be plenty of power left (at least that's how it works for other people ;)

21:31:17 [AaronSw]

just don't use an href

21:31:21 [AaronSw]

<a> tags are for more than just links

21:31:24 [Morbus]

does that validate? i didn't think it did.

21:31:25 [Morbus]

huh.

21:31:32 [Morbus]

thanks for the info.

21:31:35 [AaronSw]

.dtrt html:

21:31:36 [AaronSw]

.dtrt html:a

21:31:38 [xena]

html:: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/

21:31:39 [xena]

html:a: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#edef-A

21:31:45 [Morbus]

if i had known about this years ago, I would have been using it consistently.

21:31:49 [Morbus]

now i have like 3000 pages to recode.

21:31:53 [AaronSw]

heh

21:31:58 [Morbus]

:)

21:32:49 [Morbus]

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#title

21:33:08 [Morbus]

concerning that - what about p.title="". what hapepns there? does moz pop it up?

21:33:27 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tests

21:33:28 [Morbus]

on a mouseover anywhere on the para?

21:33:51 [AaronSw]

works in IE: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/display.cgi?t=<p%20title="hello%20world!">this%20is%20an%20example%20for%20morbus</p>

21:34:08 [AaronSw]

Yeah, anywhere on the para

21:34:18 [Morbus]

yeah, works in moz too.

21:34:20 [Morbus]

man, this is insane.

21:34:24 [Morbus]

i feel like i've been left out.

21:35:06 [AaronSw]

heh

21:35:59 [quasi]

looks horrible in lynx ;)

21:37:58 [Morbus]

what happens?

21:38:52 [AaronSw]

works fine in lynx for me

21:40:09 [quasi]

* quasi doesn't know how it is supposed to look ... but then again nothing looks good in lynx ;)

21:48:33 [Morbus]

heh, heh:L

21:48:34 [Morbus]

[[[

21:48:34 [Morbus]

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Could not allocate space for object 'VISITOR' in database 'idea-a-day' because the 'PRIMARY' filegroup is full.

21:48:35 [Morbus]

]]]

21:48:42 [Morbus]

-- http://www.idea-a-day.com/

21:49:04 [SethR]

SethR has quit ()

21:50:24 [quasi]

Morbus: and todys idea is to switch to something other than IIS?

21:50:39 [redmonk]

not IIS, SQL

21:50:41 [redmonk]

Server

21:50:51 [redmonk]

IIS + Oracle? ;-)

21:50:52 [Morbus]

i finally got the meaning of decafbad:

21:50:52 [Morbus]

http://www.decafbad.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/HexOddities#0xDECAFBAD

21:51:13 [quasi]

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Could not allocate space for object 'VISITOR' in database 'idea-a-day' because the 'PRIMARY' filegroup is full.

21:52:16 [quasi]

maybe just a rm -rf / (or whatever it is called in windoze)

21:52:50 [redmonk]

hey! i don't -rf for just anyone

21:52:56 [Morbus]

THE TREE FILES @!

21:52:57 [Morbus]

oh man.

21:53:03 [Morbus]

quasi: oh man.

21:53:09 [Morbus]

talk about injokes. the tree files. the tree files.

21:53:13 [Morbus]

* Morbus rolls over laughing.

21:53:30 [quasi]

heh

21:53:37 [redmonk]

"The Tree Is Out There"

21:54:07 [AaronSw]

del the tree inside yourself

21:54:54 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

21:55:00 [AaronSw]

find / -unlink & hackers # find and unlike the hackers

21:55:16 [redmonk]

there are few people i unlike

21:55:42 [AaronSw]

er, unlink

21:55:48 [redmonk]

heh

21:56:13 [quasi]

maybe the old trick from 5 1/4" floppies - fixing disks with a large magnet - would work

21:56:49 [pawn]

pawn (kmnguyen@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu) has joined #swhack

21:57:38 [pawn]

hello all. I'm out of my depression, thankfully

21:57:57 [redmonk]

yay!

21:58:03 [redmonk]

depression sucks

21:58:13 [pawn]

yup, it's the pits

22:00:26 [jillzilla]

hello, pawn. I'm sorry to hear you were down.

22:01:17 [talli]

talli has left #swhack

22:01:26 [redmonk]

my wife was depressed for a year.

22:01:35 [redmonk]

it was a bad time

22:02:00 [pawn]

all I did was stay in my apartment, sleep, eat, watch TV

22:02:02 [jillzilla]

That sounds very hard.

22:02:19 [redmonk]

no kidding

22:02:28 [redmonk]

glad you're back, pawn

22:02:33 [pawn]

it just cycles a few weeks up a few weeks down.

22:02:58 [pawn]

they want to put me on antidepressants but i'm afraid it'll only make it worse

22:03:05 [jillzilla]

Why are you afraid of that?

22:04:01 [pawn]

i'm afraid that when i am normal, maybe even hypomanic, i'll be even more manic

22:04:18 [jillzilla]

oh, yeah, if you have bipolar tendencies antidepressants can be a bad thing.

22:04:30 [jillzilla]

I gather that's true for some people and not others.

22:04:35 [jillzilla]

But you know this.

22:06:22 [sbp]

* sbp waves

22:06:24 [sbp]

Hmm... new nicknames

22:06:28 [jillzilla]

Hello, sbp.

22:06:28 [sbp]

wow, loads of them

22:06:37 [sbp]

Hey there

22:07:07 [pawn]

hello sbp

22:07:10 [sbp]

aha, just Jerritt Collord, Kham, and the other Aaron

22:07:22 [quasi]

* quasi waves back at sbp

22:07:26 [sbp]

pff, and I was getting all excited there for a moment

22:07:27 [AaronSw]

Jerrit Collord?

22:07:34 [sbp]

ah, plus the mysterious quasi

22:07:49 [sbp]

yeah, I dunno who the Collord guy is either. Guess I should read the logs

22:07:50 [AaronSw]

this Jerrit fellow owes us an explanation.

22:08:25 [sbp]

.google "Jerrit Collord"

22:08:25 [xena]

no results found.

22:08:43 [sbp]

well, there you go. Soon to be a googlewhack

22:10:04 [sbp]

man, the logs sure are boring today

22:10:08 [quasi]

sbp: mysterious is one of the things that does not fit very well for me ;)

22:11:25 [sbp]

heh, heh. I guess I should have qualified it with a "relatively"

22:11:29 [AaronSw]

sbp, it helps if you spell it right:

22:11:32 [AaronSw]

.google "Jerritt Collord"

22:11:32 [xena]

"Jerritt Collord": http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/JerrittCollord

22:11:51 [sbp]

ah, right. that may help

22:12:05 [AaronSw]

Hm, he knows about MIT Grid

22:12:17 [sbp]

in fact, it's your fault. I just cut and pasted: <AaronSw> Jerrit Collord?

22:12:54 [quasi]

google for quasi turns up lots of stuff...

22:13:03 [quasi]

just nothing about me ;)

22:14:14 [sbp]

the joys of having a common word for a nickname, eh?

22:14:28 [AaronSw]

and 'none' for a real name

22:14:43 [sbp]

heh, heh

22:15:08 [sbp]

funky IP, though

22:15:10 [quasi]

and the pain of having a not very common name - http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&q=%22Mads+Toftum%22

22:15:47 [AaronSw]

There's no pain in that. You just need to fill the first 1 (or 15) pages with propaganda, like me.

22:16:02 [sbp]

and the joys of knowing a language other-than-English :-)

22:16:07 [AaronSw]

that is, two pages of Google results, not two results

22:16:56 [quasi]

about 953 results on google - not much to show for 10 years online

22:17:12 [sbp]

well, I already know more about quasi in the first five hours than I did about tav in the first five months, so that's a promising sign

22:17:55 [AaronSw]

"Do you like girls' feet? Do you like [deleted]? Then this could be the site for you! -- [deleted]'s Feet!"

22:18:07 [AaronSw]

The Weird World of the Internet.

22:18:34 [sbp]

ah, Gail Porter. Right. that is quite weird

22:18:56 [AaronSw]

hey, i deleted it for a reason!

22:19:09 [sbp]

what was that then?

22:19:11 [quasi]

and another 920 on google groups - not too bad except the first is a post from 13 Apr 1996 about lotus notes ;)

22:20:08 [sbp]

since a two second Google search for "Do you like..." returned the result...

22:20:31 [AaronSw]

I had a feeling you would do that.

22:21:03 [sbp]

it's a little like saying: ooh, the World Wide [deleted] Consortium have just announced a new activity!

22:22:18 [sbp]

heh, the Gail Porter-Ali G interview was great

22:22:31 [sbp]

* sbp wonders if Ali G has reached the other side of the pond

22:22:52 [quasi]

sbp: what side are you on?

22:23:02 [sbp]

your side

22:23:37 [quasi]

ah, then probably not - /me thinks .us people wouldn't see the humor in that

22:24:15 [sbp]

that's what I wondered... but I've spoken with some people who've seen some pretty odd British shows that I never thought would make it trans-continental

22:24:33 [sbp]

s/tal/tally/

22:25:03 [quasi]

just like I have yet to meet someone from .us who understands Allo Allo ;)

22:25:09 [sbp]

heh!

22:25:18 [quasi]

sbp: pbs works in mysterious ways ;)

22:25:41 [sbp]

"Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only oence..."

22:26:21 [quasi]

Helga, please pazz me ze powerful gestapo binocularz

22:26:27 [sbp]

pbs: or get an umbrella featuring a picture of our classic tote bag...

22:26:29 [sbp]

heh, heh

22:26:43 [sbp]

Crabtree was just the greatest, though. "I have a massage..."

22:27:02 [quasi]

yeah, my fovorite too

22:27:16 [quasi]

favorite even

22:27:56 [quasi]

* quasi looks at his Bottom Live - DVD and wonders if that ever made it to .us

22:28:09 [oierw]

oierw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

22:28:22 [sbp]

well, they'd not heard of the Young Ones, so I doubt they'd have heard of Bottom

22:28:46 [AaronSw]

Ali G?

22:28:57 [quasi]

what a limited outlook on life that must be ;)

22:29:21 [sbp]

well, at least they've got Monty Python :-)

22:29:26 [AaronSw]

I saw this weird Gail Norton fellow on TV in britain interviewing Dolly Parton, is that related?

22:29:37 [sbp]

Gail Norton? heh!

22:29:42 [sbp]

Graham Norton, perhaps

22:29:42 [deltab]

Graham Norton

22:29:46 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries to read the Architect's Sketch to Ben, Ben runs away

22:29:51 [AaronSw]

Eh, I was close.

22:29:52 [sbp]

admittedly, he is... the other way, but still

22:30:03 [quasi]

sbp: yeah - but no Black Adder

22:30:05 [deltab]

maybe you were confused by Gail Porter

22:30:14 [sbp]

*chuckle*

22:30:37 [sbp]

actually, I spoke with an American quite recently that got a Blackadder joke...

22:30:44 [sbp]

which is what got me thinking about the whole topic

22:30:57 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla waves at sbp.

22:31:07 [sbp]

* sbp waves at the thing waving at him

22:31:18 [jillzilla]

jillzilla is now known as thething

22:31:30 [sbp]

oh! 'twas Jill too!

22:31:38 [quasi]

maybe it did get to .us - must check

22:31:41 [sbp]

*two* Americans that have got Blackadder jokes

22:31:55 [AaronSw]

Heh.

22:31:58 [thething]

thething is now known as jillzilla

22:32:27 [sbp]

Blackadder: If you don't answer, then the booted, bony thing with five toes at the end of my legs will soon connect sharply with the soft, dangly collection of objects in your tights.

22:33:24 [sbp]

perhaps I should have said "a thing"

22:33:36 [jillzilla]

Oh, that's more flattering, indeed.

22:34:09 [AaronSw]

Is jillzilla monopolizing the market on things?

22:34:23 [AaronSw]

Trying to stomp out the competition with her RAWR?

22:34:26 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla is all things. In my warehouse.

22:34:30 [AaronSw]

.acronym RAWR

22:34:31 [xena]

RAWR:

22:35:25 [sbp]

erm...

22:35:28 [oierw]

oierw (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack

22:36:11 [sbp]

Real Answers Were Right

22:36:19 [sbp]

heh. that's so poor

22:36:44 [sbp]

that's what happens after a day of mundane swhack! you start getting crappy acronym expansions

22:36:51 [AaronSw]

It needs to be something that'd stomp out the competition.

22:36:59 [AaronSw]

Are you calling me mundane?

22:37:09 [jillzilla]

Blackadder is shown from time to time on public television in the USA.

22:37:29 [sbp]

she stomped out the competition with her Really Angry Weasel called Ronald

22:37:30 [jillzilla]

But I mostly went to the video rental shop and got it on VHS.

22:37:35 [AaronSw]

heh: http://www.linktometadataexplanationpagehere.html

22:37:39 [quasi]

jillzilla: make sure you don't miss any of it ;)

22:37:58 [sbp]

Jill's Habits. "this week, I ha' been mostly going to the video rental shop"

22:38:17 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla laughs. I haven't seen any blackadder in a couple of years.

22:38:28 [GabeW]

GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

22:39:07 [quasi]

jillzilla: maybe it is time to pick up the blackadder dvd collection

22:39:26 [jillzilla]

What for? I don't have a dvd player.

22:39:32 [sbp]

whee!

22:39:45 [jillzilla]

Oh, wait, I think one of my cd-rom drives is technically a dvd player.

22:40:39 [collord]

collord has left #swhack

22:40:57 [sbp]

see, even he thinks that the conversation is boring today

22:41:03 [jillzilla]

AaronSw?

22:41:09 [sbp]

jillzilla?

22:41:13 [sbp]

oh wait, I'm not Aaron

22:41:29 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla notes that sbp has the surreal knob turned to "high" today.

22:41:41 [AaronSw]

What?

22:41:44 [AaronSw]

do?

22:41:46 [AaronSw]

you?

22:41:49 [AaronSw]

want?

22:41:50 [AaronSw]

from?

22:41:51 [AaronSw]

me?

22:41:54 [sbp]

Pff, this is a flinking biscuit of empty silence compared my my normal ex-Norman raven's appetites

22:41:56 [jillzilla]

Never mind.

22:42:00 [AaronSw]

oh?

22:42:03 [AaronSw]

i'm?

22:42:04 [AaronSw]

happy?

22:42:05 [AaronSw]

to?

22:42:07 [AaronSw]

assist?

22:42:08 [AaronSw]

you?

22:42:13 [jillzilla]

Nooooo!

22:42:14 [sbp]

for

22:42:16 [sbp]

crying

22:42:17 [sbp]

out

22:42:19 [sbp]

fucking

22:42:21 [sbp]

loud

22:42:22 [sbp]

can

22:42:24 [sbp]

we

22:42:25 [sbp]

stop

22:42:25 [jillzilla]

I was asking sbp whom he might be talking about.

22:42:26 [sbp]

doing

22:42:27 [sbp]

this?!

22:42:30 [AaronSw]

ah

22:42:32 [sbp]

:-)

22:42:34 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla cries out fucking loud.

22:42:35 [sbp]

hang on a sec, brb

22:43:48 [sbp]

ah: I meant Collard

22:44:02 [sbp]

sorry. slow tonight (multitasking)

22:45:48 [sbp]

|------- #swhack 2002-04-26, ACT II -------|

22:48:57 [quasi]

* quasi contemplates some sleep

22:51:22 [sbp]

nice weather today

22:53:57 [redmonk]

* redmonk rocks out to "Keep Hope Alive" by The Crytal Method

22:54:03 [redmonk]

er, Crystal

22:54:29 [AaronSw]

DW: "Oh geez, what could be worse than users running software that doesn't come from Microsoft. All hell would break loose. Can't have any of that. Wow. Some day these guys are going to want to talk to developers again. I can't imagine how they'll explain this to us. Oh we didn't mean your software. Unmitigated arrogance. Incorrigible monopolist."

22:56:12 [quasi]

* quasi is AFK - sleep

23:01:19 [GabeW]

GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")

23:07:40 [THX-1138]

Heh.

23:07:47 [THX-1138]

This coming from Mr. Windows Developer Man.

23:20:48 [AaronSw]

Hm, I am tempted to learn lojban. Do you speak it, blanu?

23:20:51 [AaronSw]

err deltab

23:21:21 [AaronSw]

"Lojban wasoriginally designed forthe purpose of supporting research

23:21:22 [AaronSw]

on a concept known as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Simply expressed, this

23:21:22 [AaronSw]

hypothesis states that the structure ofa language constrains the thinking

23:21:22 [AaronSw]

of people usingthat language."

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23:25:16 [AaronSw]

"Lojban's grammar was not copied from any known language; rather, its predicate grammar was derived from thatof formal logic."

23:25:28 [AaronSw]

argh

23:26:32 [jillzilla]

How was that supposed to test the S-W hypothesis?

23:26:32 [jillzilla]

What does "gives voice to" mean?

23:27:07 [AaronSw]

It means you can speak when the channel is moderated.

23:27:50 [AaronSw]

I expect it was supposed to test it by seeing if lojban speakers were less prone to illogical conclusions.

23:27:57 [jillzilla]

aha.

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23:41:41 [AaronSw]

heh: http://www.lojban.org/translations/alice/

23:42:48 [sbp]

The HumanML folk were quite keen on lojban

23:43:00 [AaronSw]

Makes sense.

23:51:24 [AaronSw]

Lojban looks like a good place for polyadic predicates.

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23:51:24 [AaronSw]

"x1 (object/idea) is beautiful to x2 (observer) by standard x3"

23:51:24 [AaronSw]

mi have-plan (mi speak (language sortalike lojban))

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23:51:37 [sbp]

loads a splittin' tonight

23:55:25 [AaronSw]

and voicin