00:00:38 chumpster - bot. Bot! We feed it URIs as snacks, and it digests them, and craps them out to our WebLog: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ Yes, you can browse through our piles of crap any day. chumpster's turdlets have even been noticed by wmf and Dave Winer, which means they must be good 00:01:33 deltab - Daniel Biddle, SSG (some sysadmin guy). One of tav's minions, except that in the espian vision, "minion" is a synonym for "master". We like the espian vision (but they're still odd) 00:01:53 em - Semantic Web Activity Leader, and SVL, Eric Miller. Need I say any more? I think not 00:02:48 hazmat - dunno. Who is this person? Where is it from? What's it's name/sex/eating habits? Doesn't speak all that often, but I'll bet it listens... It may be another AaronSw listening device, or some NSA contraption 00:03:18 logster - = BigBrother. We love it really. Spews to http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ It's a bot! Bot! 00:03:56 Morbus - Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, ho, ho, he, he, he!!! Oh, mercy me. Some guy who runs disobey.com 00:04:03 what the! 00:04:08 oh sure! i got the brush off! 00:04:15 i *always* get the brush off! 00:04:17 <> 00:04:27 oh, alright, I'll give you a proper review, hold on to your hat... 00:05:57 i exist, i am real, i have memories, sentience, and yes i do listen. 00:06:03 gasp! 00:06:05 he talks! 00:06:07 Morbus - Morbus' real name is Kevin Heminway (pronouned: Hemmingway). We call him "hey you" for short. He runs disobey.com, likes camgirls, wants to see a bit more of scats' breast flesh, had an article linked to by Apple... er... anything else? Oh yeah, he's pretty nuts 00:06:21 Heh heh heh. 00:06:31 it's heMENWAY with an "e". i shall assault your geriatric misspellings! 00:06:32 aaaaargh! hazmat is sentient? I should correct the review, but I'm not going to 00:06:37 where is my poop covered moose beaver? 00:06:41 lol! 00:06:50 :) 00:07:53 I've added this to the site: 00:07:55 """ 00:07:55 What is this? 00:07:56 This is a weblog run by the Swhack Cabal. Who are they? Let's just say There Is No Global RDF Conspiracy. 00:07:57 We have friends with weblogs too: Dave, Edd and his PANTS, McCusker, Morb, RDF IG, Wes. 00:07:58 * hazmat likes python, and is but a novice in the land of rdf and inference engines... 00:07:58 """ 00:08:22 sbp - me. What do I dare say about me? Sean B. Palmer, ace newspaper manufacturer, and water spout designer. No one knows what the "B." stands for (even me, perhaps). Sean kinds runs infomesh.net, but there's nothing there. He also sucks, but in a nice way 00:08:36 uh, you suck in a nice way? 00:08:42 that, um, doesn't sound so, um, you know. 00:08:49 that's like anti-agora if you ask me;) 00:09:08 well it might to some. 00:09:37 scipient - q.v. hazmat. May be sentient, may not be. Could also be another one of Aaron's contraptions. Frequents #whiterose #freenet #swhack #infoanarchy, so that gives you a measure of the person 00:10:29 tansaku - some Japanese guy, who actually piped up the other day. At least, he spoke a bit about Japan, so I presume he's Japanese. I don't know anything else about him, so add one "suck" point to me 00:11:24 tav` - like Morbus, but not, if you know what I mean. SEG (some espian guy), probably from England. No one knows his real name, not even him 00:11:31 xena - tav's sex toy 00:11:33 done 00:11:42 AaronSw, am i one of your contraptions? 00:11:50 Not last time I checked. 00:11:57 ooh! another member of our oddball clan speaks :-) 00:14:38 * sbp walks a fine line between beign humourous and disparaging, sometimes 00:14:43 heh. 00:14:47 s/beign/being/ 00:15:12 just editing my part2 00:15:12 sadly enough, i have MORE revisions than the first one, but they're all related to my suck ass text. 00:15:12 blargh. i'm never satisifed with what i put out. 00:15:26 heh. i read that as "benign humor". 00:16:12 benign tumor ? 00:16:48 Can anyone think of more to link to? 00:17:20 disobey.com/about/presspit.shtml? 00:17:25 Dane Wiper's what's-its-name? 00:17:35 Already have those 00:17:40 http://www.zope.org/Members/k_vertigo/mozilla/zope.xul 00:17:45 ah, so you do... 00:17:56 hazmat's work on a xul based sidebar for zope 00:18:14 * sbp waves to hazmat, is glad he's a real person (means less bots on channel) 00:18:47 * sbp loads the XUL in Mozilla... 00:18:53 lol. Zooko: """I've been reading David McCusker's web log every day for a few weeks (he is already hacking on a new programming language). Today he mentioned that he makes every sentence be at most one line long. I scanned through all the pages that I've recently read, double-checking. It's true! The end of every line is the end of a sentence! This is vaguely irritating. It's a demonstration of how clever he is, and I'm irritated that I don't have any cl 00:18:53 ve decided not to like it.""" 00:19:27 hazmat: nice bit of work, and cool Python links 00:19:42 sbp: its in desparate need of a stylesheet and a better look, and some functionality... but i'm still learning xul/xbel. 00:19:57 wow, Zooko never noticed that? He must be joking 00:20:10 Yeah, I thought he would have noticed by now 00:20:12 well, it's pretty neat as it is, IMO 00:20:20 thanks 00:21:03 gotta run, dinner 00:21:30 c'ya 00:21:32 aw: "This is David McCusker's weblog. That rumor that I'm a 00:21:32 two-headed mutant is false. 00:21:41 " - http://treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/new.htm 00:21:46 Yeah, that's great. 00:22:02 c'ya 00:22:02 whoo! 00:22:08 took me an hour an a half to edit this part 2. 00:22:09 sigh. 00:23:36 found a dfont converter, but the list i'm on says that .dfonts are a transitional format for apple, and wont be the end all, be all. 00:23:42 so, i wont' be converting. yay. 00:24:28 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:24:53 sbp (~sean@m21-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:27:30 @ http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=phenomic 00:27:34 A: The DICT Development Group: Online Dictionary Query- phenomic from sbp 00:27:59 A::Whaddya mean "No definitions found for "phenomic""??? 00:28:00 commented item A 00:28:39 A::cf. [http://infomesh.net/2001/phenomic/|Phenomic defined] 00:28:40 commented item A 00:30:09 A::Support our cause; use "phenomic" in your articles, emails, and everyday speech today! 00:30:11 commented item A 00:30:24 my use of phenomic should be next friday, sbp :) 00:30:29 on oreilly, no les. 00:30:29 .google David McCusker 00:30:30 ooh! :-) 00:30:31 David McCusker: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/new.htm 00:30:40 who is david M? 00:31:29 Some programmer that runs a Weblog 00:32:08 In order word, "dunno; ask Aaron". Hmm... I seem to be answering most questions put to me with that answer... 00:32:17 s/word/words/ 00:32:37 * sbp wonders what happened to his sense of grammar 00:34:13 .google learn me some grammar 00:34:14 learn me some grammar: http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~econrad/lang/latin.html 00:34:24 hmm.. found his resume http://treedragon.com/ged/mc/re/asformal.txt 00:38:07 @ http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/2001/12/11#pythontimeline 00:38:10 B: 404 Not Found from sbp 00:38:17 er... 00:38:40 B:|A Brief History Of Python 00:38:41 titled item B 00:39:22 B::Well, a timeline. That's a brief history. By Mark Pilgrim 00:39:23 commented item B 00:40:15 B::Try the [http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/pythontimeline|actual time line]. Damn cut and paste 00:40:16 commented item B 00:41:08 B::Heh: """A lot of effort went into making this effortless 00:41:09 commented item B 00:41:35 @ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2986@charon.cwi.nl 00:41:37 C: Google Search: from sbp 00:42:00 B::Seems we're not the only ones looking up the history of things now that Google has put the usenet archives up 00:42:01 commented item B 00:42:15 C:|Guido Announces Python 00:42:16 titled item C 00:42:46 C::Python and the WWW in the same year? 00:42:47 commented item C 00:46:11 heh. my longest sticky note on my desktop: Sep 04, 1999 at 04:26 PM 00:47:23 hellow again 00:47:55 C::cf. [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:guido%40cwi.nl&start=430&hl=en&rnum=433&selm=99%40piring.cwi.nl&filter=0|Guido's first post], 1987 00:47:56 commented item C 00:47:57 Hi 00:49:56 hi there. i love you long time. 00:50:14 gotta run 00:50:23 think of more links for me! 00:50:32 heh! http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=feb712b0.0110090125.76a46e34%40posting.google.com 00:50:59 Heh heh heh 00:51:00 bye 00:51:08 c'ya 00:51:16 * sbp wonders where he's off to 00:51:36 Man, we've gotta get going on the ol' RDF Primer... "Hoax"? 00:51:47 [[[ 00:51:47 on the Semantic Web, but when I get no replies, is it due to that 00:51:47 there is none hotels in Kabul matching my search, or is it because 00:51:47 no-one has created RDF descriptions of these hotels ? 00:51:47 Which leads me to, "Is the Semantic web a hoax ?" 00:51:48 ]]] 00:53:27 one from Jim Ley on the Semantic Web: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3af1d40c.4629144%40chicago.usenetserver.com 00:59:39 @ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=36C82068.4C07%40earthlink.net 00:59:45 D: Google Search: from sbp 01:00:22 D:|Cetus OOLP (Prolog) Page Updated 01:00:23 titled item D 01:00:43 D::First mention of the "Semantic Web" on USENET, it appears 01:00:43 commented item D 01:03:12 Hmm... I wonder when the Semantic Web really came about? We know where it came from, PICS, KRep, and hundreds of other things... but when did it really spring? 01:03:42 I guess Alex Chislenko's 1997 paper was seminal 01:05:34 http://web.archive.org/web/19990508061622/http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Semantic.html is the earliest Archive copy of the Semantic Web roadmap 01:06:58 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m350-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:07:13 sbp (~sean@m350-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:08:07 So I guess the "Semantic Web" is kinda from September 1998, but only in as much as the WWW is from 1989/1990 01:08:25 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 01:08:50 the first real deployment of Semantic Web architecture couldn't begin until RDF was established, which is an odd thing to have to wait for 01:10:24 So I guess I was a bit of a late-comer, only reaching it in the fall of 2000 01:10:57 'twas already a couple of years old. OTOH, nothing much important had been done for the SW. A great deal for RDF, but not for the SW 01:19:04 Hmm... it'd be neat if I could actually take some data from elsewhere on the Web, and get it all out in one file 01:19:25 I'd probably need to do "semanticsOrError" and work it from there 01:19:47 and the other problem is finding something that's a) decent data b) in RDF 01:22:33 i keep thinking rdf and semantic web remind more than little of prolog 01:27:11 yep, 'tis true. Bijan Parsia's article might be of value to you 01:27:24 .google site:xml.com Bijan Parsia Semantic Web Prolog 01:27:24 site:xml.com Bijan Parsia Semantic Web Prolog: http://www.xml.com/pub/au/93 01:27:49 http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/04/25/prologrdf/index.html 01:28:10 ah, you're in #rdfig now... you can just ask him about it :-) 01:29:05 too busy lurking ;) 01:29:13 heh, heh, heh :-) 01:30:04 thanks for da link. 01:30:08 np 01:48:49 wow, there's not much in the way of decent data on the SW 01:49:30 in fact, I came up with nothing that I'd want to reference. No quotes, no page summaries, no interesting data at all. Just some cruddy old RSS files, and a few placeholder experiments 01:52:02 ah, perhaps there's something in RDFWeb 02:06:51 Hmm... just can't find anything I'd want to put in a page; even one with lots of really odd bits of information 02:07:01 I put all I found at:- 02:07:01 http://infomesh.net/2001/12/swlog.n3 02:07:09 a kind of "Semantic Weblog" 02:07:39 but much of it is pretty worthless. Some of the bits in my homepage are alright 02:08:27 Of course, I could just go around converting things that I want to feature into RDF... but I want the oweners to maintain it 02:09:36 perhaps a "real" RDF Wiki would do? 02:10:00 where people can edit the N3 files, and if it validates through CWM, it gets uploaded. Ooh! What a neat idea 02:10:10 BLURB:SWAG RDF Wiki (proper one) 02:10:13 E: SWAG RDF Wiki (proper one) from sbp 02:11:02 E:People can go to a URI like http://purl.org/swag/wiki/blargh and it will bring up a Notation3 version of the files at blargh.n3 and blargh.rdf 02:11:22 E:Then people just edit the N3 as they like, and submit it back to the server 02:12:11 E:If CWM parses it correctly (and, for example, we could decree that all files must have a title, description, and maintainer), then it gets posted to the site 02:12:20 E::People can go to a URI like http://purl.org/swag/wiki/blargh and it will bring up a Notation3 version of the files at blargh.n3 and blargh.rdf 02:12:21 commented item E 02:12:25 E::Then people just edit the N3 as they like, and submit it back to the server 02:12:26 commented item E 02:12:33 E::If CWM parses it correctly (and, for example, we could decree that all files must have a title, description, and maintainer), then it gets posted to the site 02:12:34 commented item E 02:57:00 [Global Notice] Hi all. Could we have about 1,000 more people on the test net? We're beginning to do final testing for a bug fix release. Thanks. (irc.openprojects.net:9001) 02:58:51 [Global Notice] To repeat, the test net can be reached at: irc.openprojects.net, port 9001 .... thanks! :) 03:06:59 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 03:07:03 SeanP (~sean@m358-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:07:04 SeanP has quit (Remote closed the connection) 03:07:58 sbp (~sean@m358-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:13:54 what about MusicBrainz? that's useful data 03:14:20 Not much use to me, though. I mean data that I can get bits of and use on some page 03:14:33 Really? 03:14:37 Actually, perhaps MB would be useful for that - I could do a list of albums I like 03:14:37 You listen to all this music? 03:14:40 Right. 03:14:50 and have it grab titles, and then you could do playlists and stuff 03:15:16 * AaronSw just got back, btw 03:15:37 wb 03:15:49 do you have an entrance link for me? 03:15:55 musicbrainz.org? 03:16:19 hey, cool. readers of wes's blog are recommended to visit us 03:16:32 see http://blogdex.media.mit.edu/socnet/index.asp?ego=blogspace.com/swhack/weblog 03:17:42 nice 03:17:57 did you see my RDF Wiki suggestion? It's in the chump 03:18:13 yep 03:18:18 what's the usecase? 03:18:55 use case? Getting some data on the SW 03:19:35 neat: http://mm.musicbrainz.org/album/dcb32a8e-b047-4884-b515-2e73542f42df 03:19:38 but why can't people just put it up in n3 by themselves? 03:20:04 er... p'on me? 03:20:10 well, it's a Wiki, isn't it 03:20:19 hmm, true 03:24:02 @ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,49122,00.html 03:24:05 F: Russian Hacker Charges Dropped from AaronSw 03:24:26 aw... it's a shame it doesn't use "by" 03:24:34 F::Dmitri is freed! Well, sorta. 03:24:37 commented item F 03:24:38 "by"? 03:24:38 -chumpster:#swhack- F: Russian Hacker Charges Dropped by AaronSw 03:24:47 Heh heh heh. 03:24:55 F::via [Wes|http://wmf.editthispage.com/2001/12/13] 03:24:56 commented item F 03:25:46 F::More at the [Free Dmitry Sklyarov|http://www.freesklyarov.org/] website. 03:25:48 commented item F 03:29:00 mnot (~mnot@adsl-64-170-196-242.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 03:29:10 aaaaargh! 03:29:11 Everyone say hi to today's special guest: mnot. 03:29:25 mnot is here to chat about http://test.mnot.net/sparta/ 03:29:25 er... yeah, "hi"; that's what I meant 03:29:33 it's very close 03:29:33 Heh heh heh! 03:30:06 :-) 03:30:09 * mnot has lost a lot of state about Sparta, but will try to remember 03:30:33 I'm sorry I missed you when you first mentioned it... 03:30:41 So, here's where I'm coming from: I've got a platform on which I want people to build apps and store their data in RDF. 03:31:02 And I see integration tools like sparta as a way to make it easier for them to do that. 03:31:43 right. people from an OO world can grasp the nodes and arcs pretty easily; statements aren't as intuitive. 03:32:26 this is a double-edged sword, as it hides a lot of the capabilities of RDF, but it's a good starter tool, as well as a convenient way to programmatically write RDF (which is where I was coming from) 03:33:10 Hmm... it seems it's not as good as really programmatic kind of stuff since you have to do all sorts of property name hacking. 03:33:15 That's one thing that sort of worried me. 03:33:49 The ns_localname idiom felt a bit hacky... but i'm not sure there's much better. 03:34:02 also, why is there no http:/ in 03:34:02 mary.contact_www = "/www.example.org/people#mary" 03:35:23 oh, i was just playing with 4rdf there 03:35:43 Oh, to get it to stop doing the resoruce conversion? 03:35:56 that's where it automagically recognises a uri (bad) 03:36:02 yep 03:36:25 Yeah, I was going to run your thing, but i don't really want to grab the whole 4t package... 03:36:44 its easy to install, fwiw 03:37:12 Ooh, neat -- Chris Langreiter reads our blog. 03:38:30 So why did you build Sparta, mnot? 03:39:40 curiousity, mostly. didnt like the apis that i'd seen. 03:40:29 seemed like a natural fit for the py object model 03:40:44 Yeah, it's definitely inspiring. 03:40:56 So the way I did namespaces was to create a Namespace class which just let you refer to things in it. 03:41:00 Like: 03:41:12 dc = rdf.Namespace('http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/') 03:41:12 * mnot is typing slowly because he's holding a baby; sorry;) 03:41:16 no problem 03:41:20 and then you coudld say: 03:41:34 dc.title 03:41:45 right 03:41:48 and it'd refer to that namespace+'title' via some getattr tricks 03:42:01 for a while i was doing that 03:42:25 e.g., bob.dc.title = "Bob" 03:42:26 Hmm, so why'd you switch> 03:42:48 Morbus (~Morbus@s115.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 03:42:51 I was thinking Bob[dc.title] = "Bob" actually. 03:43:08 for prototyping, this was sufficient 03:43:08 but they're pretty close 03:43:16 ah, the UserDict approach 03:43:23 i'm liking movable type more and more. 03:43:33 just spent the last three hours messing with it. 03:43:55 mnot! hey, how ya doing. 03:44:05 so why'd you switch away from the dc.title thing? 03:44:10 I walso wanted to support Thing( predicate=object, predicate=object) but doing ns.predicate as an arg in python is illegal 03:44:23 oh... i hadn't thought of that. 03:44:31 that was the most immediate reason 03:45:04 How do you decide between the literal string "person" and the object "person_bob"? 03:45:40 interesting: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2001/1212opes.html 03:46:00 the interface isn't very solid; would be cool to get a bunch of different approaches and compare 03:46:10 hey morbus, how's it going? 03:46:13 brb 03:46:30 Morbus, you know mnot? 03:47:15 GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 03:47:19 syndication list 03:47:23 * mnot puts the baby down 03:47:25 Hi Gabe 03:47:28 ah 03:47:28 not personally. i'm sure we know each other's names. 03:47:36 baby down? someone else here with a baby? 03:47:45 (Hemmingway: with an "e") 03:47:46 hi sbp and everyone else 03:47:47 yep, for four days ;) 03:47:54 congrats! 03:47:55 damn you sbp! 03:48:00 you and your damn geriatrics. 03:48:03 heh, heh, heh 03:48:10 thx! http://www.mnot.net/photo/2001/charlie_birth/ 03:48:12 * AaronSw waves to charlie 03:48:13 congratulations, mnot 03:48:17 thx 03:48:21 congrats - mine is almost 12 months old 03:48:33 difference between literal and object: 03:48:36 * AaronSw wishes mnot would stop changing the url of the charlie pics ;-) 03:48:43 aw, first birthday soon 03:48:45 bob.dc_title = "Bob" 03:48:51 bob.dc_title = bobs_title 03:49:01 where bobs_title = Thing(etc.) 03:49:08 mnot - man you are good about the pictuers on the web 03:49:11 happy b-day to him! 03:49:12 mine is sooo out of date 03:49:18 http://aliyah.wachob.com 03:49:40 cute 03:49:50 uh-oh, gotta go for a litle while ;) brb 03:49:56 heh heh 03:50:05 * AaronSw likes the penguins in http://www.mnot.net/photo/2001/charlie_birth/IMG_0065.html 03:50:11 * GabeW reads that as "poop attack" 03:51:02 * AaronSw thinks it'd be really cool to have a website when he was born 03:51:08 and an email address, like Tristen 03:51:39 Oops, Tristan 03:52:30 We are in the generation for which the WWW didn't exist when we were born, but at least ENQUIRE did 03:53:04 But we had it growing up, which is the important thing... 03:53:10 yeah :-) 03:53:15 Some of us are older than the Internet itself (but maybe not) 03:53:22 And The Simpsons. Don't forget The Simpsons 03:53:37 I remember reading "Life in Hell" in high school 03:53:43 by Matt Groenig 03:53:50 cool 03:57:04 Ah, foster city ;) 03:57:14 yes 03:57:17 You're being logged btw 03:57:45 so where do you live these days, mnot? 03:58:06 for now, burlingame 03:58:23 are you looking to move, mnot? 03:58:48 ahhhh 03:58:56 hey, I'll brb in 30 min or so 03:59:55 Man, I'm hungry. Someone FedEx me a donut 04:00:16 i'll bring one on the plane :) 04:00:21 thanks 04:00:28 lol: http://www.tidbits.com/tristan/images/19990215-t-mouse.html 04:02:22 just a plain donut will do. Or white icing 04:02:32 or chocolate... ooh, yeah 04:03:31 * sbp had been working on another RDF API, secretly 04:03:50 Morbus has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:03:50 mnot has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:03:50 scipient has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:03:50 hazmat has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:03:57 Morbus (~Morbus@s115.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 04:04:03 whoa, splitsville 04:04:25 cool stuff 04:04:28 scipient (~scipient@66.169.64.154) has joined #swhack 04:04:41 Another API, eh? 04:04:45 yeah :( 04:04:53 please tell us 04:05:07 Hmm... I'll bet DanC's homepage could be converted into RDF quite easily. It's all notes 04:05:11 Morbus, did you get disconnected or just split? 04:05:15 nothing substantial yet 04:05:32 The connection to the server is no longer active 04:05:34 *** You have joined the channel 04:05:43 sounds like disconnected 04:05:43 i dunno. i'm dumb. 04:06:03 i hope mnot comes back... 04:06:35 mnot, come back, mnot! 04:06:50 if we all will him back, maybe he'll come 04:07:51 mnot (~mnot@adsl-64-170-196-242.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 04:08:05 sbp: do tell re: alternate API (or did I miss it?) 04:09:03 ugh, 4suite wants a new version of PyXML. i mean i'm running a version of python that isn't even out yet -- shouldn't it have the latest version? 04:09:03 * AaronSw wonders how mnot finds the time to have a job, a baby, work on standards, answer email and create all sorts of cool python tools 04:09:08 wb 04:09:08 Ugh: "xmlns:sched="foo:not-assigned-yet"" - http://www.w3.org/XML/2000/04soccer-sched/team-2.rdf 04:09:23 ouch 04:09:57 alternate API: well, I've been hacking on SWIPT for some time now, but I wanted to go with a fresh approach. Just for some potential apps that I wanted to do, but that CWM wouldn't provide for me 04:10:25 And you ignored poor PlexRDF? 04:11:04 of course. I just wanted something simple 04:11:20 PlexRDF fits on the front side of one page. how is it not simple? 04:11:35 not the back side, mind you. we're talking the front side here 04:12:10 short != simple 04:12:19 what's complicated? 04:12:40 aargh, this is why i didn't want to install 4suite: 04:12:44 dyld: python multiple definitions of symbol _XML_DefaultCurrent 04:12:44 /sw/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/pyexpat.so definition of _XML_DefaultCurrent 04:12:44 /sw/lib/python2.1/site-packages/Ft/Lib/cDomlettec.so definition of _XML_DefaultCurrent 04:12:51 it's not complicated as in baffling, just complicated as in it uses lots of shortcuts etc. 04:12:59 if, i i have a div class in css, and i want to control p's in there, the rule is .content+p, right? 04:13:18 div p { } 04:13:18 sbp, but why do you care if the interface is simple? 04:13:29 because I'm going to be hacking the dang thing 04:13:33 well, i only want it in the class of "content". 04:13:43