IRC log of swhack on 2002-04-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:01:18 [AaronSw]

aha, i just needed to change the colors

00:07:03 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw fiddles with his emacs HTML template

00:12:45 [tomch]

tomch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

00:14:14 [AaronSw]

since "And she liked her lovers violent, and vicious: / Queenie was sexually ambitious." suddenly popped into my head, i'm adding The Wild Party to my books-to-read list

00:15:07 [AaronSw]

i don't argue with the voices in my head

00:15:22 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla nods solemnly.

00:19:42 [chumpster]

chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection)

00:20:40 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw deletes xoot-remnants from the blog

00:20:43 [xoot]

xoot (xoot@115.sanjose-03-04rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack

00:20:54 [AaronSw]

speak of the devil

00:21:46 [chumpster]

chumpster (nobody@xd84b5c5a.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

00:22:06 [chumpster]

chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection)

00:22:32 [sbp]

Hmm...

00:22:57 [xoot]

weird

00:23:12 [xoot]

in the first ten minutes of running windows me, a BSOD appeared

00:23:26 [sbp]

let's see how that goes

00:23:27 [AaronSw]

that's a bit much

00:23:38 [AaronSw]

please take that off

00:25:19 [chumpster]

chumpster (nobody@xd84b5c5a.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

00:25:41 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: And now back to our normal programming... (kinda)

00:26:06 [AaronSw]

ick, funny character

00:26:15 [sbp]

which one?

00:26:31 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: And now back to our normal programming... (kinda)

00:26:32 [AaronSw]

the one you always complain about when i use

00:26:34 [sbp]

ah, that one :-)

00:26:50 [sbp]

* sbp goes to get a drink

00:29:26 [xoot]

xoot has quit ("bbl :D")

00:30:05 [sbp]

Morbus and rm are going to *freak* :-)

00:30:14 [Ash]

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00:31:09 [xoot]

xoot (xoot@115.sanjose-03-04rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack

00:55:21 [Morbus]

Morbus (morbus@s96.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

01:00:34 [Morbus]

did I miss anything exciting?

01:00:40 [Morbus]

answered craploads of emails.

01:00:46 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw points to xena

01:00:46 [Morbus]

now i'm revising the newest ora piece.

01:00:48 [AaronSw]

err xoot

01:00:56 [Morbus]

you know, i never did hear back from them on the decepticons thing/

01:01:08 [Morbus]

i've sent like 5 emails on it. the last one was "are you just chuckling or ignoring me?"

01:01:19 [Morbus]

holy crap. xoot's back.

01:01:19 [Morbus]

what happened?

01:01:52 [AaronSw]

we cloned him just to freak you out

01:02:41 [Morbus]

right down to his dns too. nice job! ;)

01:05:11 [Morbus]

logster, where am I?

01:05:11 [Morbus]

See http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-04-16#T01-05-11

01:05:30 [Morbus]

thanks, logster

01:06:58 [Morbus]

xoot, you're in san jose. you going to wwdc?

01:07:46 [AaronSw]

Note that Apple says they're demoing 10.2 at WWDC, not releasing

01:08:17 [Morbus]

yeah, well, i half-expected that anyways.

01:08:33 [Morbus]

did you read that osopinion concerning amd/nvidia and apple?

01:08:51 [AaronSw]

nah

01:08:52 [Morbus]

something along those lines, at least.

01:09:36 [AaronSw]

Gotta run: dinner

01:09:47 [Morbus]

heh: 00:30:05 [sbp] Morbus and rm are going to *freak* :-)

01:18:31 [tansaku]

tansaku has quit ()

01:20:15 [Morbus]

sniff.

01:26:05 [sbp]

sniff?

01:26:22 [Morbus]

yeah. no discussions.

01:27:51 [sbp]

heh

01:33:54 [sbp]

wb Aaron

01:34:00 [AaronSw]

thanks

01:34:29 [xoot]

how about a discussion now?

01:34:44 [sbp]

nah. let's have a few minutes more silence :-)

01:35:05 [xoot]

'k

01:35:28 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

01:35:42 [Morbus]

what sort of discussion, per chance, xoot?

01:36:42 [AaronSw]

Interesting: M-<tab><tab> searches thru your history in bash

01:36:56 [sbp]

whee! $ lynx http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-04-16.txt -source -dump > swhack; lynx http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2002-04-16.txt -source -dump > rdfig; cat rdfig swhack | sort

01:37:11 [AaronSw]

curl, curl, curl!

01:37:11 [sbp]

[[[

01:37:12 [sbp]

01:26:05 <sbp> sniff?

01:37:12 [sbp]

01:26:22 <Morbus> yeah. no discussions.

01:37:12 [sbp]

01:27:51 <sbp> heh

01:37:12 [sbp]

01:33:43 <AaronSw> back.

01:37:12 [sbp]

01:33:54 <sbp> wb Aaron

01:37:14 [sbp]

01:34:00 <AaronSw> thanks

01:37:16 [sbp]

]]]

01:37:26 [AaronSw]

heh

01:37:33 [AaronSw]

kinda scary

01:37:33 [sbp]

it makes so much more sense when you fold the two together :-)

01:38:23 [xoot]

what mac would you get instead if you had to have a top-of-the line PC

01:38:43 [Morbus]

tibook.

01:38:44 [xoot]

G4, G3, 9600, Quadra, or Performa

01:38:57 [xoot]

heh. I said G3

01:39:00 [Morbus]

g4.

01:39:20 [Morbus]

oh?

01:41:33 [GabeW]

GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

01:42:20 [xoot]

xoot has quit ("bbl :D")

01:45:53 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: And now back to our normal programming... (kinda)

01:46:08 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: €

01:46:13 [sbp]

ah, the xoot's on the other foot now

01:46:43 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: [interrobang]

01:46:55 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:47:16 [sbp]

U+203D, BWT

01:48:01 [Morbus]

AaronSw, my Leecharoo script has been modularized, and now uses an apache style config.

01:48:14 [Morbus]

which is nice.

01:48:21 [sbp]

heh!

01:48:35 [Morbus]

as it is right now, anyone could add a new scraping thing, and all the user would have to do is add a new block in his config file.

01:48:40 [sbp]

* sbp bets that that wasn't a reference to the Fast Show, but laughs anyway

01:48:41 [Morbus]

can i blurb it here to discuss it with ya?

01:48:55 [AaronSw]

I don't have anything to discuss

01:49:00 [Morbus]

hmm?

01:49:01 [sbp]

Leecharoo is such a kick-ass name...

01:49:30 [Morbus]

right, but I wanted to talk about naming / functions.

01:49:41 [Morbus]

sbp: the logo's gonna be even cooler.

01:49:46 [Morbus]

i should get it in about two weeks.

01:50:04 [AaronSw]

ok, fine

01:50:20 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

01:50:20 [Morbus]

nevermind.

01:51:15 [sbp]

a big leech with the body of a kangaroo?

01:51:58 [Morbus]

no.

01:52:02 [sbp]

aw

01:52:04 [Morbus]

its either a kangaroo running around stealing shit into his pouch.

01:52:18 [Morbus]

or a kangaroo with a super-overstuffed pouch and one of those innocent "who me?" looks.

01:52:36 [sbp]

heh; I don't envy the artist of their task

01:52:46 [AaronSw]

who is the artist?

01:52:51 [Morbus]

or maybe a kangaroo with leeches for hands.

01:52:51 [Morbus]

Hhmmm.

01:52:51 [Morbus]

<G>

01:53:03 [Morbus]

sbp: the same artist did the syncasaurus logo.

01:53:33 [sbp]

Aaron: apparently the same artist did the syncasaurus logo, according to Morbus

01:53:41 [Morbus]

AaronSw: a long time friend of mine. she illustrates childrens books and other thingies.

01:53:53 [Morbus]

heh

01:56:34 [sbp]

ooh, UFO spam!

01:56:36 [sbp]

UFO spam is so damn cool - choc full of conspiracy theory goodness, and not a porn/product in sight

01:56:38 [sbp]

it's still spam though, so annoying

01:57:05 [Morbus]

i've been getting lots of casino spam recently.

01:57:20 [sbp]

ah, product oriented

01:57:24 [AaronSw]

spamassasin has killed all my spam

01:57:31 [sbp]

heh, poor Aaron

01:57:42 [sbp]

although, I got a good one from some Adobe guy recently

01:57:50 [sbp]

half-clever spam

01:57:56 [Morbus]

i've been meaning to add that to my server for testing.

01:58:02 [Morbus]

then was gonna move it to the main server

01:58:19 [sbp]

it said "hi, I read your article at [cover pages URI] about XML and PDF... here's my product!"

01:58:21 [Morbus]

AaronSw: you running it in daemon mode or through procmail or what?

01:58:24 [sbp]

or something like that

01:58:32 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@ip68-2-102-26.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack

01:58:35 [AaronSw]

thru .qmail

01:58:56 [AaronSw]

sbp, yeah, i got that too

01:58:57 [sbp]

hey redmonk. close, but no biscuit

01:59:42 [redmonk]

hi sbp, aaron

01:59:48 [sbp]

and Morb

02:00:06 [sbp]

lurking in the shadows lies the dormant Morbus of Iff

02:00:14 [sbp]

stalking your sensibilities

02:00:51 [Morbus]

mu hah! mu hah, I say!

02:01:00 [sbp]

heh, heh

02:02:08 [sbp]

I can imagine you herding quezlots in your old age on Iffington Farm

02:02:12 [redmonk]

hehe

02:03:20 [Morbus]

quezlots?

02:03:25 [AaronSw]

this is just merkle puzzles all over again: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992067

02:04:51 [sbp]

sounds like a bit of a dead end

02:05:13 [sbp]

* sbp may end up eating his words... hopes that they taste of chocolate

02:05:28 [AaronSw]

"Attack success rate while Counterpane was watching: 0.006%. Attacks that succeeded long enough to cause damage while Counterpane was watching: 0.00%."

02:05:43 [AaronSw]

Merkle Puzzles are very cool. Poor Ralph.

02:06:10 [sbp]

Gee Charlie Brown, that sure is clever... yes sir! What's "Counterpane"?

02:06:48 [AaronSw]

Counterpane is Bruce Schneier's company to protect networks from intruders (crackers)

02:06:59 [AaronSw]

thru active monitoring

02:07:04 [sbp]

O.K.

02:08:15 [sbp]

Ralph? I heard Eve

02:08:42 [sbp]

but hey, there you go

02:08:47 [AaronSw]

Eve?

02:08:58 [sbp]

http://cactus.eas.asu.edu/partha/Teaching/539.2002/Merkles-puzzle.htm

02:09:29 [sbp]

(I know, Ralph Merkle...)

02:09:48 [AaronSw]

Oh.

02:10:05 [sbp]

but Eve's the one doing the puzzles, so I dunno what you meant :-)

02:10:15 [AaronSw]

I meant what I said.

02:10:24 [AaronSw]

Poor Ralph.

02:10:56 [sbp]

he lacks money? perhaps he should have patented his method

02:11:34 [AaronSw]

I meant it in the sense that he invented this great system and never got any of the credit.

02:11:57 [sbp]

asu.edu would disagree :-)

02:12:13 [sbp]

but yeah... I'd not heard of him

02:12:37 [AaronSw]

As in Diffie-Hellmann get all the credit

02:12:45 [AaronSw]

and he was years earlier

02:13:05 [sbp]

oh! it's the guy that patented the crap with them

02:13:09 [sbp]

I had heard of him

02:13:42 [AaronSw]

He didn't patent stuff with them, did he?

02:14:21 [sbp]

I think so (but the site appears to have gone down)

02:14:26 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

02:14:28 [AaronSw]

Oh, so he did.

02:14:36 [AaronSw]

Well that patent was invalid anyway, cf. djb

02:15:31 [tansaku]

tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack

02:16:28 [sbp]

what did djb have to say about it?

02:17:22 [GabeW]

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02:18:05 [AaronSw]

http://cr.yp.to/patents/us/4200770.html

02:19:30 [sbp]

thanks

02:20:04 [sbp]

interesting

02:20:11 [sbp]

nice piece on time: http://cr.yp.to/proto/utctai.html

02:20:25 [AaronSw]

djb is just filled with loads of good stuff

02:20:34 [sbp]

cool bit about leap seconds from that page: [[[

02:20:34 [sbp]

1997-06-30 23:59:59 UTC = 1997-07-01 00:00:29 TAI

02:20:34 [sbp]

1997-06-30 23:59:60 UTC = 1997-07-01 00:00:30 TAI

02:20:34 [sbp]

1997-07-01 00:00:00 UTC = 1997-07-01 00:00:31 TAI

02:20:35 [sbp]

]]]

02:20:46 [sbp]

it'd be good to hook xena up to a real NTP server

02:21:28 [AaronSw]

doesn't she run ntpd?

02:21:47 [AaronSw]

hm, guess not

02:25:48 [AaronSw]

uh oh: "Y2036 and Y2038 disasters"

02:26:47 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

02:27:00 [sbp]

heh, let's worry about it now to save us doing it then

02:27:38 [sbp]

[[[

02:27:38 [sbp]

In *CACM*, January 1997, page 15, Robert L. Glass reveals his shocking new

02:27:38 [sbp]

discovery that UNIX time, a 32-bit signed integer representing the number of

02:27:38 [sbp]

seconds after 1969 TAI, will overflow in mid-January 2038. (``And even

02:27:38 [sbp]

sooner for smaller-word processors.'')

02:27:44 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.infowar.com/iwftp/risks/risks-18/18_77.txt

02:28:16 [wmf]

wmf (~wesley@valentine.felter.org) has joined #swhack

02:28:30 [AaronSw]

hi wmf, we're discussing the Y2038 crisis

02:28:53 [sbp]

chuckle:-

02:28:54 [sbp]

[[[

02:28:54 [sbp]

P.S. In all seriousness: I'm converting my data to 64-bit signed times,

02:28:54 [sbp]

stored big-endian in 8 bytes, followed by 8 bytes for nanoseconds and

02:28:54 [sbp]

attoseconds just in case. This won't last for more than a few hundred

02:28:54 [sbp]

billion years, but neither will the Sun, and in any case I plan to throw

02:28:56 [sbp]

a big programming party on 1 January 2000000001 to upgrade to 128 bits.

02:28:58 [sbp]

]]]

02:29:15 [sbp]

- ibid.

02:29:28 [wmf]

IRC needs to support Unicode so you can put a real interrobang in the topic

02:29:55 [sbp]

I still think that U+203D would have sufficed

02:30:10 [AaronSw]

anyone know some good ntp servers?

02:30:17 [sbp]

tock.usno.mil

02:30:27 [AaronSw]

can't trust the militrary

02:30:29 [sbp]

er... .navy/mil

02:30:33 [AaronSw]

they'll fake me out to break my crypto

02:30:43 [xoot]

xoot (~aquachat@91.sanjose-15rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack

02:30:58 [sbp]

argh, try again: tock.usno.navy.mil

02:31:08 [wmf]

apparently there's an extinction-causing asteroid that's going to hit around '38, so we don't need to worry about Unix

02:31:10 [deltab]

follow links from www.ntp.org

02:31:31 [xoot]

asteroid?

02:31:31 [sbp]

ooh, cool site

02:33:01 [xoot]

heh

02:33:31 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw apt installs clockspeed, removes ntp

02:33:51 [sbp]

* sbp tried compiling it, but it didn't want to go

02:35:24 [xoot]

* xoot uses raw irc commands

02:36:12 [xoot]

Anyone else know raw irc?

02:36:31 [wmf]

ircushi

02:37:04 [xoot]

like PRIVMSG

02:37:25 [xoot]

I hate them :p

02:37:37 [xoot]

requires a lot of typing

02:37:42 [wmf]

I know jack about IRC

02:38:27 [xoot]

xoot has left #swhack

02:38:56 [sbp]

Gotta run

02:42:25 [AaronSw]

Hm, clockspeed installation is high-maintenance

02:43:00 [AaronSw]

good thing i have entourage to remind me

03:10:27 [Seth]

Seth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

04:01:03 [AaronSw]

heh: "rsync can use zlib to compress traffic (and introduce double-free() security holes :-), at the option of the client."

04:01:45 [wmf]

at least they're honest

04:03:12 [AaronSw]

The DFSG GPL problem is sort of funny.

04:03:21 [wmf]

?

04:03:36 [AaronSw]

Debian has a policy of only distributing free software.

04:03:43 [wmf]

ok

04:03:45 [AaronSw]

and the GPL requires that the GPL is included with GPLed software

04:03:54 [wmf]

ah, I see where this is goin

04:04:00 [AaronSw]

but the GPL's license is in violation of the DFSG

04:04:14 [AaronSw]

(because it can't be modified)

04:04:42 [AaronSw]

so technically all GPL software is in violation of debian policy

04:05:08 [wmf]

actually, I don't think GPL'ed packages in Debian include the text of the GPL

04:05:19 [wmf]

there's probably one package that includes it

04:05:19 [AaronSw]

Why's that?

04:05:41 [wmf]

I think Debian has some policy about not wanting to put 5000 copies of the GPL on your disk

04:06:13 [AaronSw]

hm. it seems to be in /usr/share/doc/package-name/copyright, but it may just be a link

04:06:34 [wmf]

ls -la will tell you

04:06:41 [AaronSw]

ah, they just say:

04:06:43 [AaronSw]

Released under the terms of the GPL; see

04:06:52 [AaronSw]

/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL.

04:07:00 [wmf]

there you go

04:07:25 [AaronSw]

which in itself is a link to GPL-2

04:07:57 [AaronSw]

I was thinking the other day that we need URIs for gpl-x and gpl-x-or-later

04:08:13 [AaronSw]

and latest-gpl, i guess

04:08:26 [wmf]

if there's ever a GPLv3 I predict mass confusion

04:08:39 [AaronSw]

why's that?

04:09:19 [AaronSw]

hm. is gnomovision a real program?

04:09:32 [wmf]

or maybe there will just be protests by people who put their code under GPLv2-or-later and don't like the terms of v3

04:09:43 [AaronSw]

yeah, probably

04:09:56 [AaronSw]

and everyone will be like "too bad, you were stupid"

04:10:01 [AaronSw]

heh, found a new joke in this:

04:10:03 [AaronSw]

Yoyodyne, Inc., hereby disclaims all copyright interest in the program

04:10:03 [AaronSw]

`Gnomovision' (which makes passes at compilers) written by James Hacker.

04:10:03 [AaronSw]

<signature of Ty Coon>, 1 April 1989

04:10:03 [AaronSw]

Ty Coon, President of Vice

04:10:07 [AaronSw]

I love that bit

04:10:25 [wmf]

didn't alan cox write gnomovision?

04:10:50 [AaronSw]

hm: http://www.advogato.org/proj/Gnomovision/

04:11:14 [wmf]

BlogniX is a blogger client for Linux.

04:11:18 [wmf]

interesting name

04:11:32 [AaronSw]

is http://www.advogato.org/person/linus/ linus torvalds?

04:11:36 [wmf]

* wmf is surfing freshmeat

04:11:47 [wmf]

I doubt it

04:12:17 [AaronSw]

i am disappointed. the real gnomovision does not make passes at compilers

04:12:29 [wmf]

the trust metric is great for what it does...

04:13:26 [AaronSw]

heh, Yoyodyne got bought out by yahoo

04:13:54 [wmf]

I really should delete all HTML mail that I get

04:14:05 [AaronSw]

Ty Coon is probably running the pay-for-submission systems these days

04:14:39 [AaronSw]

ooh, another joke: 1 April

04:15:38 [AaronSw]

Hm, GPL section 8 is quite sucky. I never noticed that before.

04:16:04 [AaronSw]

I wonder how many hackers with GPLed code actually read the GPL

04:16:24 [wmf]

very few

04:17:29 [wmf]

I was promoting the MPL for quite a while before I discovered the upgrade clause

04:17:45 [AaronSw]

Heh

04:18:29 [AaronSw]

I was thinking about writing a simplified GPL, but it'd probably just be a waste.

04:18:51 [AaronSw]

I wonder how many people follow 2a: "You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change."

04:19:58 [wmf]

use diff <shrug/>

04:23:41 [AaronSw]

"If the Program does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software Foundation."

04:23:53 [wmf]

scary

04:24:23 [AaronSw]

what happens when stallman dies and someone crazy issues GPL -1 ;)

04:24:53 [wmf]

nah, there are plenty of stallmanistas lined up to take over for him

04:25:00 [AaronSw]

phew

04:26:52 [AaronSw]

Hm, the GPL refers to the old LGPL

04:27:22 [wmf]

what do you think about that web services GPL that came out recently?

04:27:40 [AaronSw]

web services GPL?

04:27:55 [AaronSw]

wizgipple?

04:27:56 [wmf]

yeah. affero something?

04:28:14 [AaronSw]

Hadn't heard of it. Interesting.

04:28:21 [AaronSw]

affero GPL

04:28:42 [AaronSw]

stallman's for it: http://www.gnu.org/press/2002-03-19-Affero

04:29:29 [AaronSw]

hm. the new clause is: " If the Program as you received it is intended to interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version you received, any user interacting with the Program was given the opportunity to request transmission to that user of the Program's complete source code, you must not remove that facility from your modified version of the Program or work based on the Program, and must offer an equivalent opportunity for all users int

04:29:29 [AaronSw]

twork to request immediate transmission by HTTP of the complete source code of your modified version or other derivative work.

04:29:44 [wmf]

the FSF "is considering including this additional provision in the upcoming version of the GNU GPL 3.0"

04:30:18 [AaronSw]

the dependence on HTTP is a bit sucky

04:32:27 [AaronSw]

hm, where is GPL 1?

04:34:17 [AaronSw]

aha: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copying-1.0.html

04:35:59 [AaronSw]

I wonder what's at 59 Temple Place. I'm tempted to visit and ask for a license.

04:38:16 [AaronSw]

Hm. GPL1 lacks the patent clauses. Maybe I should use it instead...

04:38:56 [wmf]

another entourage bug: the scrollbar thumb doesn't track the cursor

04:45:18 [jillzilla]

<eric> It's named after my favorite unicode character!

04:45:29 [jillzilla]

I think he means this channel.

04:45:55 [wmf]

having a favorite unicode character might be a sign of problems

04:46:26 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla laughs to the point of pain.

04:46:28 [jillzilla]

I have to agree.

04:47:02 [jillzilla]

eric claims to be normal. He's threatening to do the normie-boy dance to prove it.

04:47:04 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla runs.

04:49:16 [AaronSw]

I think a lot of people like the interrobang, which predates Unicode, I might note.

04:49:19 [AaronSw]

@ 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org

04:49:32 [AaronSw]

oops

04:49:39 [AaronSw]

@ http://3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org

04:50:13 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@ip68-2-102-26.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack

04:50:19 [chumpster]

A: http://3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org from AaronSw

04:50:28 [AaronSw]

A::Awesome domain name!

04:50:44 [chumpster]

commented item A

04:51:40 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla waves and goes home.

04:52:18 [AaronSw]

G'nie

04:52:20 [AaronSw]

err nite

04:55:57 [AaronSw]

Who's Eric?

04:56:10 [jillzilla]

One of my coworkers.

04:56:20 [AaronSw]

Not Mr. Eric, right?

04:56:23 [jillzilla]

dnm and he know someone in common.

04:56:27 [AaronSw]

er, Mr. Schmidt

04:56:30 [jillzilla]

No.

04:56:36 [jillzilla]

There are several erics.

04:56:40 [AaronSw]

Phew.

04:56:53 [jillzilla]

This one is a python demigod, or perhaps hemidemigod.

04:57:24 [jillzilla]

really going home now. :-)

04:57:26 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla disappears.

05:09:07 [wmf]

hey redmonk

05:18:29 [AaronSw]

.time pst

05:18:29 [xena]

Apr. 15, 2002 10:18 pm US/Pacific

05:18:54 [AaronSw]

somebody's clock is screwed up

05:26:45 [redmonk]

hi wes

05:28:53 [wmf]

that looks like a reasonable time

05:29:31 [AaronSw]

yes, that's reasonable but i was using it to compare with someone else's unreasonable time

05:29:37 [AaronSw]

they thought it was 5:40AM tomorrow PST

05:29:40 [wmf]

ah

05:30:04 [wmf]

today I discovered that the time zone on my new thinkpad was wrong

05:30:24 [wmf]

I got a meeting invitation that said 11:30 PM and I knew it couldn't be right

05:30:31 [AaronSw]

heh heh

05:32:19 [wmf]

ah Dan Brickley has discovered the relatable problem

05:37:10 [AaronSw]

hm, freeamp.org seems down

05:37:42 [AaronSw]

what is the relatable problem?

05:38:41 [wmf]

the TRM algorithm has two parts; one runs on the client and one runs on *one* server owned by relatable

05:38:57 [AaronSw]

oh, that problem. i thought everyone knew that

05:39:14 [wmf]

it certainly took me a while to discover it

05:39:48 [AaronSw]

hm. i guess it's mb's dirty secret

05:40:10 [wmf]

my laundry is done; time for bed

05:40:15 [wmf]

wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason")

05:51:50 [AaronSw]

hm, i need to exchange fingerprints more

05:51:58 [AaronSw]

odd, i'd never imported wmf's key

05:56:20 [AaronSw]

alright, i better sleep too. nite all

06:12:40 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

07:06:03 [tansaku]

tansaku has quit ()

08:39:45 [tansaku]

tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack

08:58:16 [tansaku]

tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

08:58:37 [tansaku]

tansaku (~sam@h131-245.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack

12:53:25 [sbp]

* sbp waves

12:54:07 [sbp]

wow @ A on chumpster

14:00:14 [AaronSw]

hi

14:00:15 [AaronSw]

@ http://diveintoosx.org/

14:01:53 [chumpster]

B: http://diveintoosx.org/ from AaronSw

14:02:11 [AaronSw]

B:|Dive into OS X, An OS X Wiki

14:02:32 [chumpster]

titled item B

14:12:12 [AaronSw]

ironic that free is the most expensive google adword

15:15:36 [redmonk]

redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

15:20:29 [sbp]

heh, indeed

15:23:11 [redmonk]

mornin sbp

15:23:42 [redmonk]

* redmonk nods to aaronsw, jill*, oierw

15:25:12 [sbp]

Good Morning, Good Morning

15:25:22 [sbp]

actually, it's late afternoon over here. oh well

15:26:34 [redmonk]

"Time-Zone-Appropriate Greetings to All!"

15:26:52 [redmonk]

redmonk has changed the topic to: <redmonk> "Time-Zone-Appropriate Greetings to All!"

15:27:11 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:28:30 [sbp]

Hmm... what's a minimal set of features for a base RDF API?

15:29:02 [sbp]

I want to turn Eep into a black box type of thing for some other applications that I'll be working on

15:29:40 [sbp]

redmonk, what time is it where you are?

15:30:50 [AaronSw]

black box type of thing?

15:31:37 [sbp]

yeah; something I can point people to and say "here, this is only a few KB, go and get it"

15:34:17 [sbp]

I have like three projects for which I need a base API, but I don't want to have them as Eep extensions necessarily (Since I've all but abandoned Eep)

15:34:20 [AaronSw]

is they're a content-type for rfc822 headers?

15:34:49 [sbp]

I think that there is...

15:34:51 [sbp]

* sbp checks

15:38:14 [sbp]

text/rfc822-headers

15:38:18 [sbp]

- http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/media-types/media-types

15:38:50 [AaronSw]

cool

15:38:55 [AaronSw]

thanks

15:42:50 [sbp]

np

15:43:19 [AaronSw]

heh, orasis got pretty excited about that

15:47:09 [Seth]

Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

15:50:00 [sbp]

Rolling another API for each RDF application is so uncool... but perhaps it's for the best - each application has different needs

15:50:13 [redmonk]

.time mst

15:50:13 [xena]

Apr. 16, 2002 9:50 am US/Mountain

15:50:24 [sbp]

ah, cheers rm :-)

15:50:43 [redmonk]

oops

15:50:48 [redmonk]

.time PST

15:50:48 [xena]

Apr. 16, 2002 8:50 am US/Pacific

15:50:53 [redmonk]

better

15:51:01 [redmonk]

.time America/Phoenix

15:51:02 [xena]

error: Site Error occurred: KeyError

15:51:03 [sbp]

oh, in PST?

15:51:05 [redmonk]

ugh

15:51:20 [redmonk]

AZ does not do DST

15:51:32 [redmonk]

(well, except for the Navaho lands)

15:51:37 [sbp]

ah, interesting. so it's mountain time, but without summer time

15:51:39 [redmonk]

so right now we're PST

15:51:43 [redmonk]

yeah

15:51:49 [AaronSw]

"Daylights savings? Why do we need daylight savings? we got too much daylight already!"

15:51:54 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:51:56 [redmonk]

damn straight

15:53:24 [redmonk]

it hit 100 here on sunday

15:53:39 [sbp]

* sbp wonders why the bots are auto-voiced now; never did get an explaination

15:53:42 [AaronSw]

it was like 90 here yesterday, gonna be hotter today

15:53:45 [sbp]

100? wow. what humidity?

15:54:09 [redmonk]

about 0

15:54:17 [redmonk]

hehe

15:54:19 [AaronSw]

auto-voiced: so that i count the bots more easily

15:54:22 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:54:22 [redmonk]

maybe 5

15:54:56 [AaronSw]

and so that people stop trying to chat xena up

15:55:11 [sbp]

but you should voice the humans! don't we deserve more respect? Hmm... I should know better than to ask a question like that

15:55:25 [xena]

ha!

15:55:54 [sbp]

it's so freaky when you do that

15:56:37 [AaronSw]

who does what?

15:56:47 [sbp]

you do that

15:56:55 [AaronSw]

i do what?

15:57:00 [sbp]

that

15:57:04 [AaronSw]

this?

15:57:21 [sbp]

no, that. the other thing

15:58:32 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: do YOU want to move to Virtual Tonga?

15:58:56 [sbp]

.google "Virtual Tonga"

15:58:59 [xena]

"Virtual Tonga": http://www.tonga-island.com

15:59:26 [AaronSw]

i was actually thinking of hits 3 or for

16:02:17 [sbp]

ah, so you mean google:Virtual%20Tonga[2:3]

16:02:36 [AaronSw]

er, 1:2

16:03:04 [sbp]

er, 2:4

16:03:06 [AaronSw]

i give up

16:03:26 [AaronSw]

ooh: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/et2002/view/e_sess/2223

16:03:59 [sbp]

it's a bit odd to me that [1:2] should be equal to [1]

16:04:03 [tomch]

tomch (~lambda@modem-678.porcupine.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack

16:04:26 [AaronSw]

it's not equal to [1]

16:04:32 [AaronSw]

>>> foo = [1,2,3,4,5]

16:04:32 [AaronSw]

>>> foo[1:2]

16:04:32 [AaronSw]

[2]

16:04:32 [AaronSw]

>>> foo[1]

16:04:33 [AaronSw]

2

16:04:39 [sbp]

wow, that is rather interesting

16:04:46 [sbp]

ah, [foo[1]], then

16:04:56 [sbp]

same amount of characters

16:05:49 [sbp]

(rather intersting: i.e. the talk)

16:06:26 [AaronSw]

i'm tempted to print out the schedule and start circling stuff

16:06:40 [Seth]

* Seth noodles on the meaning of sbp's "RDF is its own RDF Path syntax"

16:07:24 [AaronSw]

ugh, big conflict: reputation, google and megnut all at once

16:07:51 [sbp]

don't forget the qualifying "to a great extent" :-)

16:08:08 [sbp]

heh, conference conflicts... how I'd love to have that dilemma

16:08:42 [sbp]

Seth, for example:-

16:08:42 [sbp]

[[[

16:08:43 [sbp]

/[a rdfs:ContainerMembershipProperty]

16:08:43 [sbp]

Returns the values of all container membership properties (_1, _2, etc.) for all resources.

16:08:48 [Seth]

well if i know what you do mean, i wouldnt even qualify it :)

16:08:49 [sbp]

]]] - http://logicerror.com/RDFPathProposal

16:09:04 [sbp]

that's just: ?x [ a rdfs:ContainerMembershipProperty ] ?y .

16:09:58 [sbp]

some of the stuff that was raised on the RDF Path group list is even more bizarre

16:10:14 [AaronSw]

shirky-winer, flickenger-khare

16:10:26 [sbp]

what we do need is a way to create a formula out of the triples returned

16:11:08 [Seth]

huh? ... the triples returned are formulas ... arn't they?

16:11:31 [sbp]

that depends upon how you use the expression above :-)

16:11:53 [AaronSw]

a query system would just need to return everything that unifies with query.

16:11:54 [sbp]

I think the API norm is to return a list of bindings

16:12:21 [Seth]

oh, you mean some dumb api would just return a list [(?x, ?y) .... ] ?

16:12:25 [AaronSw]

yeah, that's what unify does

16:12:29 [sbp]

uh huh

16:13:04 [sbp]

but then how you use that information is up to the application

16:13:32 [Seth]

well my api would return the actual triples in vivo

16:14:04 [sbp]

pardon?

16:14:38 [Seth]

return a collection of triples with the variables in them bound

16:14:50 [Seth]

ie the variables dissapear

16:15:03 [sbp]

ah, right

16:15:22 [sbp]

well, that should be passed along too, I agree (Eep does that)

16:16:00 [sbp]

so really it's a set of bindings and triples... I see your point. just that the bindings have traditionally been more important

16:16:24 [sbp]

whereas with some applications of RDF Path, the triples are the important thing

16:16:56 [Seth]

so if there is only one place in the graph that qualifies for the query, then that place in the graph is what is returned

16:17:24 [sbp]

you I guess you want asBindings(), asTriples(), and asBoth() query methods to a store

16:17:47 [sbp]

well, a set with just that as the single member, yes

16:17:56 [Seth]

im not familure with those methods, ref?

16:18:01 [sbp]

if you start reducing the lists whenever you can, you'll get into trouble

16:18:05 [sbp]

I just made 'em up :-)

16:18:37 [AaronSw]

wow, you can google for the and a now

16:18:38 [Seth]

nope, the actual triple in the graph. not a new graph with that as the only arrow.

16:19:11 [sbp]

surely that triple is the same triple no matter where it is?

16:19:20 [sbp]

that is, if it's in the root context...

16:19:34 [Seth]

not at all, triples are context sensitive.

16:19:43 [sbp]

Hmm.. but it's not going to be if I start saying stuff about it...

16:19:47 [sbp]

right

16:20:12 [sbp]

in the annotation example that I gave, note that I used <> to say that the annotation was for this document only

16:20:44 [sbp]

because what you'd get is foaf:mbox :annotation (<> "a machine can have an earl:email, but not foaf:mbox") .

16:21:22 [Seth]

* Seth goes back to reading sean's email

16:21:23 [sbp]

so I might get foaf:mbox :annotation (<somerdfdoc.rdf> "a machine can have an earl:email, but not foaf:mbox"), (<someotherdoc.rdf> "blargh) .

16:21:29 [AaronSw]

http://google.blogspace.com/archives/000221

16:21:38 [sbp]

s/h)/h")/

16:22:04 [sbp]

Aaron: heh, cool report

16:22:16 [sbp]

ugh

16:22:19 [sbp]

.google www

16:22:20 [xena]

www: http://www.microsoft.com

16:22:23 [AaronSw]

I even snuck in @@.

16:22:25 [AaronSw]

.google @@

16:22:26 [xena]

no results found.

16:22:35 [sbp]

yep, that's a cool bit :-)

16:22:36 [sbp]

.google the

16:22:37 [xena]

the: http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html

16:22:45 [sbp]

adobe and MS. What a Web...

16:23:49 [sbp]

however, the other form of annotation is to start annotation sets of triples in some document, which is harder

16:23:56 [AaronSw]

ick @ w3c.com and w3.com

16:24:15 [AaronSw]

.google world wide web

16:24:15 [xena]

world wide web: http://www.w3.org

16:24:27 [sbp]

ah, that's good at least

16:24:37 [sbp]

s/annotation sets/annotating sets/

16:24:40 [talli]

talli (~talli@xd84b5c59.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

16:25:09 [sbp]

so you might have a document that parses to { :x :y :z . :p :q :r }, and I want to say { :p :q :r } a :GreatTriple .

16:25:09 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #swhack

16:25:21 [AaronSw]

talli, davb... it's an openacsinvasion

16:25:29 [davb]

heh

16:25:45 [sbp]

ah, perhaps { :p :q :r } :annotation (<whatever.rdf> "a great triple") .

16:25:56 [sbp]

works for me

16:26:32 [AaronSw]

Heh, now we're going to get baby photos of triples

16:26:43 [sbp]

lol!

16:26:48 [AaronSw]

like http://www.panic.com/birthday/

16:27:05 [AaronSw]

{ :x :y :z } :annotation ("this was when he took his first steps")

16:27:10 [AaronSw]

err http://www.panic.com/birthday/gift3.html

16:27:49 [sbp]

ah, I guess that's different: an evolving set of triples. that's like the diff things

16:27:54 [sbp]

s/gs/s/

16:28:03 [sbp]

you're combining my two wanted apps!

16:28:21 [sbp]

heh: 3PM

16:30:17 [Seth]

* Seth loads his mentographer before he loads his python ... oh well

16:33:31 [sbp]

Gotta run

16:40:27 [AaronSw]

I think I'm going to start my talk like this:

16:40:32 [GabeW]

GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

16:40:34 [AaronSw]

1989: "The aim would be to allow a place to be found for any information or reference which one felt was important, and a way of finding it afterwards."

16:40:43 [AaronSw]

1999: "Now, miraculously, we have the Web. For the documents in our lives, everything is simple and smooth. But for data, we are still pre-Web."

16:50:55 [Morbus]

Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

16:55:30 [AaronSw]

Hm, this is a lot of talk for not a lot of time.

16:59:31 [AaronSw]

xoot would like to come back in and participate in the discussions

17:00:31 [AaronSw]

too bad moderating doesn't work on IRC

17:01:25 [talli]

talli has left #swhack

17:05:14 [Morbus]

where'd xoot go? what happened?

17:05:19 [Morbus]

dammit. i always miss the good stuff.

17:06:10 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: do YOU want to move to Virtual Tonga?

17:06:16 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: do YOU want to move to Virtual Tonga?

17:06:20 [xoot]

xoot (xoot@12.81.8.57) has joined #swhack

17:07:37 [AaronSw]

McLuhan bit on NPR

17:10:54 [xoot]

Anyone know a free web host that allows PHP scripting?

17:14:23 [redmonk]

cornerhost is cheap

17:14:26 [redmonk]

not free

17:14:32 [redmonk]

though

17:14:40 [redmonk]

check out cornerhost.com

17:14:40 [Morbus]

xoot, there's a list of them on the php.net site.

17:14:47 [redmonk]

Morbus:

17:14:51 [xoot]

ok

17:14:57 [Morbus]

monk monk

17:15:09 [redmonk]

have you seen this? http://www.aaronland.net/toys/otlml

17:15:39 [redmonk]

alternative outline xml format

17:15:46 [Morbus]

i've heard of it, but never looked into it.

17:15:46 [redmonk]

not much more complicated than opml

17:15:53 [redmonk]

http://otlml.org/1.1b1/otlml.dtd

17:16:04 [redmonk]

anyway, i don't have time to fool with it

17:16:10 [Morbus]

heh, same here :)

17:16:11 [redmonk]

but thought you might like to know about it

17:16:16 [redmonk]

heh

17:16:39 [Morbus]

xoot, try: http://hosts.php.net/

17:20:36 [xoot]

heh

17:23:28 [AaronSw]

"glocalization" sense of having worldwide reach but local access or local culture

17:23:37 [xoot]

does mac.com support php?

17:23:41 [xoot]

hmmm....

17:23:45 [Morbus]

i sincerely doubt it.

17:26:54 [Seth]

sean, had to introduce some new concepts, but her is my response:

17:26:57 [Seth]

http://robustai.net/mentography/annotation.gif

17:29:27 [GabeW]

GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")

17:32:42 [xoot]

* xoot is seeing whether homepage supports cgi

17:33:57 [Morbus]

what the hell are you talking about?

17:34:01 [Morbus]

homepage supporting cgi?

17:34:09 [Morbus]

homepage is just a text editor.

17:34:19 [Morbus]

if you mean, does it color code perl / php syntax, yes.

17:34:25 [xoot]

apple homepage

17:34:33 [Morbus]

ah.

17:34:39 [Morbus]

oh. lol.

17:34:42 [Morbus]

man, my fault. whoo.

17:34:57 [Morbus]

its just so fun to be angry at xoot.

17:35:06 [Morbus]

jillzilla, you around?

17:36:03 [tomch]

heh

17:36:06 [xoot]

fun?

17:36:12 [xoot]

why is it fun?

17:36:14 [xoot]

:D

17:36:30 [AaronSw]

"literacy is doing just fine .... more books sell today than ever before"

17:45:16 [AaronSw]

McLuhan: "it's very difficult to travel at the speed of light looking thru the rear-view mirror"

17:47:07 [redmonk]

what the heck is a mentograph?

17:47:22 [xoot]

heh... "You're spooging international character noise!"

17:49:18 [redmonk]

um, that was only funny when it was true

17:49:57 [AaronSw]

Heh, they're making fun of the National Digital Information Infrastructure and Preservation Program "What they're grappling with is..." "no, what they're grappling with is how to shorten the name!"

17:55:07 [AaronSw]

"a key mcluhan concept is decentralization"

17:55:52 [AaronSw]

he blames anthrax on decentralization

18:01:23 [AaronSw]

Heh, I remember when sbp was marveling at how short infogami was. now he complains that it's too long

18:01:43 [tomch]

tomch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

18:02:26 [Seth]

* Seth seth goes back to codinglearning python

18:04:11 [Morbus]

i gotta do that someday.

18:04:19 [Morbus]

i'm forcing myself to code in php for this movie project thing.

18:04:25 [Morbus]

i should force myself to code python for something.

18:04:47 [AaronSw]

yeah, python is cool

18:05:11 [xoot]

chumpster got coded in python...

18:05:27 [xoot]

too bad I don't have the right version to run it in my irc channel

18:05:37 [xoot]

(right version of Python)

18:09:00 [sbp]

* sbp has two minutes to lookl at Seth's annotation mentography, and think she gets it

18:09:17 [sbp]

although I need a little while to play around with the diff/annotation thing that Aaron came up with

18:09:27 [AaronSw]

sbp became female?

18:09:29 [Morbus]

afk.

18:09:37 [MysticOne]

[GlobalNotice] Hello everyone! I hope everyone's day is going well. I just wanted to remind everyone that we're still accepting artwork for our logo and t-shirt campaign. Questions or submissions may be sent to mysticone@openprojects.net, or you may contact me here with the nick MysticOne. Any help you can give us is much appreciate, and as always we thank you for using the Open Projects Network.

18:09:37 [sbp]

lol!

18:09:40 [Morbus]

oOh! sbp, a woman!

18:09:42 [Morbus]

!afk.

18:09:43 [sbp]

s/think she/thinks he/

18:09:47 [jillium]

* jillium peeks in.

18:09:48 [Morbus]

tell me, sbp. tell me more!

18:09:57 [sbp]

aw, man. I didn't even notice the transition

18:10:00 [redmonk]

hey - no peeking jill!

18:10:10 [jillium]

* jillium hides her eyes.

18:10:15 [redmonk]

sbp! have you no shame!?

18:10:19 [sbp]

BTW, it's not that infogami's too long, just that it's not customizable - just like every other API

18:10:25 [sbp]

shame?

18:10:26 [AaronSw]

{ earl:email :seeAlso foaf:email } :annotation "earl:email can work with a foobar"

18:10:53 [sbp]

er... what formula did you get that triple from?

18:11:12 [sbp]

that's why I did [ :annotation (<file.rdf> "annotation") ] .

18:11:29 [sbp]

well, I'm in a Simpsons break here...

18:11:35 [sbp]

(aka. borrowed time)

18:11:36 [sbp]

Gotta run

18:18:57 [MysticOne]

[GlobalNotice] Just to clarify a few things. We're looking for a logo that emphasis community involvement and work, not just software development. Also, high resolution/dpi is desired if you're submitting a final proof, but concept sketches are fine too. Just e-mail submissions to mysticone@openprojects.net. Thank you!

18:36:29 [walloper]

<lilo> Hi all. If you've experienced any service difficulties, particularly in connecting to the servers. Please let us know. Thanks.

18:43:59 [Morbus]

i just got booted, evil lilo.

19:02:14 [Seth]

* Seth wonders id sem is a good name for a Graphnode\arrow rdf type api

19:03:54 [Morbus]

don't ask me.

19:03:57 [Morbus]

i'm evil when it comes to names.

19:04:07 [Morbus]

* Morbus remembers the Aaron / Morbus naming spat of '01.

19:05:13 [Seth]

as one would expect with a name like "Morbus"

19:06:32 [Morbus]

oh?

19:06:45 [Morbus]

whatever do you mean, dear child?

19:08:07 [Seth]

.google "Morbus"

19:08:08 [xena]

"Morbus": http://www.disobey.com

19:08:42 [Seth]

well where's the dictionary etomology bot?

19:08:43 [Morbus]

whoo.

19:08:55 [Morbus]

seth, more than likely, i've got you covered: http://www.disobey.com/about/morbus.shtml

19:09:43 [Seth]

yep, you do

19:09:56 [Morbus]

:)

19:09:58 [Seth]

i was relating to the word 'morbid'

19:10:07 [Morbus]

* Morbus nods.

19:10:13 [Morbus]

i like names.

19:10:18 [Morbus]

er. making names, rather.

19:10:24 [Seth]

to which one could associate evil

19:11:06 [Seth]

naming stuff right sure helps it grow :)

19:11:23 [Seth]

seth likes platitudes

19:11:46 [Morbus]

seth:

19:11:51 [Morbus]

.google amphetadesk naming

19:11:52 [xena]

amphetadesk naming: http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/naming.htm

19:12:06 [Morbus]

i've got more, but they're all at home, right now.

19:12:29 [xoot]

where do you get xena?

19:12:44 [Morbus]

xena is one of a kind.

19:13:19 [Seth]

last name i used for this back in the 80's was CyberMind

19:13:30 [xoot]

really?

19:13:35 [Morbus]

CyberMind to Seth? good jump.

19:13:41 [xoot]

is it free?

19:13:54 [Seth]

it ?

19:14:01 [xoot]

xena

19:14:03 [AaronSw]

xena? yeah. cvs.espnow.com/creature/

19:14:18 [xoot]

thanx

19:21:26 [xoot]

xoot has left #swhack

19:28:54 [Seth]

.google sememory

19:28:55 [xena]

sememory: http://www.specialistinfo.com/rrsi/SEmemory.html

19:29:01 [walloper]

<MysticOne> Good evening, all. At the request of ada6, I'm announcing the creation of #eurobsdcon, a channel dedicated to the 2002 BSDCon in Europe. If you are interested, please stop by their channel. Thank you.

19:29:45 [walloper]

<MysticOne> This is WOPN, what we like to believe is the premier wallops radio station on the Open Projects Network. If you'd prefer not to listen to our broadcast, simply /mode YourNick -w to tune us out. As always, we thank you for your patronage.

19:30:14 [Morbus]

grumble.

19:32:03 [AaronSw]

how many other OPN wallops radio stations are there?

19:33:52 [redmonk]

morbus: http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.041602/221062126&ticker=ADBE

19:36:13 [xoot]

xoot (xoot@12.81.8.57) has joined #swhack

19:43:24 [xoot]

xoot has left #swhack

19:45:51 [Morbus]

redmonk: aahhh. finally!

19:46:19 [redmonk]

yeeeessss

19:46:27 [AaronSw]

heh: http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/04/16#lf22e801295d3bcd705d2676996473a93

19:46:48 [Morbus]

is the # supposed to go anyway?

19:46:57 [Morbus]

my browser just plopped me at the top.

19:47:04 [AaronSw]

it's the first item

19:47:08 [Morbus]

mmkay

19:47:19 [AaronSw]

dave on python indentation

19:47:29 [AaronSw]

"We don't argue about indentation in our community. There's only one way to do it (the right way of course, since I designed it. Heh. Sorry.)"

19:47:40 [Morbus]

:)

19:49:20 [AaronSw]

ooh, MoinMoin generates tables of contents

19:56:05 [AaronSw]

python-AIM: http://jamwt.com/Py-TOC/

20:12:18 [sbp]

* sbp waves

20:18:00 [Seth]

hi sean

20:18:39 [sbp]

* sbp started on a new RDF serialization, but was distracted by danbri's math thing

20:20:39 [AaronSw]

YARS?

20:20:46 [AaronSw]

hm, how does one turn on a Newton

20:25:54 [redmonk]

slider on left hjand sie

20:25:57 [redmonk]

side

20:26:19 [AaronSw]

no luck

20:26:23 [AaronSw]

i guess it's out of batteries

20:26:26 [redmonk]

if you hold it in yr left hand it should be at your thumb

20:26:30 [redmonk]

pull down and let go

20:26:32 [redmonk]

ah

20:26:38 [redmonk]

that would 'splain it

20:26:47 [AaronSw]

oh, that slider!

20:27:06 [redmonk]

where'd you get a newton?

20:27:21 [redmonk]

* redmonk wonders where his 120 is...

20:27:25 [AaronSw]

we got one a long time ago from the friend who gave us the next

20:27:29 [AaronSw]

it's one of the clear ones

20:27:31 [redmonk]

cool

20:27:35 [AaronSw]

a 110

20:27:38 [redmonk]

clear?

20:27:50 [redmonk]

never saw a clear one before

20:27:55 [redmonk]

would have been cool

20:27:56 [AaronSw]

yeah, apparently they had a couple clear ones for some special thing

20:28:03 [redmonk]

sweet

20:28:08 [redmonk]

i want a 2100

20:28:12 [redmonk]

but no cash

20:28:31 [redmonk]

(just bought a DVD player and are buying a digicam too)

20:28:52 [AaronSw]

(heh, fun)

20:29:25 [redmonk]

yeah, we've been building a dvd library but just had to hold them up to a light and turn it real fast

20:29:59 [AaronSw]

a really bright light

20:30:14 [redmonk]

oh maybe that was the problem...

20:30:29 [AaronSw]

so you know MPEG now?

20:30:49 [redmonk]

heh

20:31:21 [redmonk]

this is the one we got:

20:31:22 [redmonk]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005AY8R/qid=1018989043/br=1-6/ref=br_lf_e_6/104-6988275-2499954

20:31:44 [Morbus]

redmonk: i have about 350+ movies. about 100 of which are dvds.

20:32:02 [redmonk]

DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, CD, MP3, CD-R, DVD-R

20:32:31 [redmonk]

multi-video out (for multiple tvs)

20:32:35 [redmonk]

it's got all the goodies

20:32:40 [AaronSw]

we bought some cheapo one at best buy

20:32:49 [redmonk]

and amazon has them cheap, plus we had a gift certificate for $100

20:33:00 [redmonk]

so we got it for like 130

20:33:20 [redmonk]

lol!!

20:33:31 [redmonk]

"# Video black-level expansion and PLUGE (for optimizing theater-like conditions in your home)"

20:33:39 [redmonk]

our DVD player has PLUGE!

20:33:43 [redmonk]

woohoo!

20:34:07 [redmonk]

how onamatapaeic?

20:34:09 [redmonk]

!

20:34:27 [sbp]

onomatopoeic, I think

20:34:37 [redmonk]

yeah, i can't spell

20:34:54 [redmonk]

(spel?)

20:35:00 [AaronSw]

PLUGE?!

20:35:02 [sbp]

wow, neither can I, but I remembered it. miraculous

20:35:06 [redmonk]

yep!

20:35:35 [redmonk]

big red button in the middle of the remote: PLUGE!

20:35:53 [AaronSw]

we bought the cheapest dvd player at best buy, but then we found it had this weird flicker thing so we returned it and the new one did the same thing

20:36:00 [AaronSw]

turns out it was "copy protection

20:36:01 [AaronSw]

"

20:36:03 [redmonk]

(whoever thought PLUGE was a good name for a fearure?)

20:36:05 [redmonk]

ugh

20:36:15 [redmonk]

were you copying dvds onto vhs?

20:36:52 [redmonk]

er, feature

20:37:04 [AaronSw]

nope

20:37:16 [redmonk]

hm. weird

20:37:53 [AaronSw]

it was because our tv didn't support rca-style cables, so we had to run the dvd thru the vcr (which converted rca-style to coax)

20:38:01 [redmonk]

ah

20:38:04 [redmonk]

gotcha

20:38:09 [redmonk]

interesting

20:38:23 [redmonk]

so it thought you were ccopying perhaps

20:38:28 [redmonk]

(or may try)

20:38:55 [AaronSw]

loser

20:39:01 [redmonk]

uh huh

20:39:04 [AaronSw]

dvd player, that is

20:39:08 [redmonk]

yeah ;-)

20:39:40 [AaronSw]

ooh, the Supreme Court shut down the Child Porn Act. woo!

20:40:02 [redmonk]

heh: check this out

20:40:08 [redmonk]

* 1 set Y/Pr/Pb out

20:40:08 [redmonk]

* 1 S-Video

20:40:08 [redmonk]

* 1 RCA-Video

20:40:09 [redmonk]

* 1 Optical Out

20:40:09 [redmonk]

* 1 Coaxial Out

20:40:10 [redmonk]

* 1 pair L-R Audio

20:40:11 [redmonk]

* 6-Channel Out

20:40:29 [redmonk]

it's got everything. geez

20:40:37 [AaronSw]

* 6-PLUNGE IN

20:40:45 [redmonk]

PLUGE

20:40:47 [redmonk]

;-)

20:41:02 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: 97.6% PLUNGE compliant

20:41:22 [AaronSw]

it'd be cooler if it was splunge

20:41:41 [redmonk]

quit putting an "n" in it

20:41:48 [redmonk]

it's pluge

20:41:51 [redmonk]

;-)

20:41:58 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: 97.6% PLUGE compliant

20:42:02 [redmonk]

lol

20:42:19 [AaronSw]

.wn pluge

20:42:25 [AaronSw]

.acronym PLUGE

20:42:26 [xena]

PLUGE: Picture Line Up Generation Equipment

20:42:41 [AaronSw]

heh, fancy-sounding

20:42:52 [redmonk]

yeah

20:43:12 [AaronSw]

"Does your DVD Player PLUGE?" is much better than "Does your DVD Player Picture Line Up Generation?"

20:43:36 [redmonk]

hehe

20:43:37 [redmonk]

yeah

20:43:48 [redmonk]

still - PLUGE? what a moronic acronym

20:44:42 [sbp]

not if you pronounce it "pluggy"

20:45:00 [AaronSw]

i thought it was plooj

20:45:07 [redmonk]

* redmonk too

20:45:16 [sbp]

it most certainly is, but that sucks

20:45:21 [redmonk]

uh huh

20:45:33 [sbp]

hence pluggy

20:45:43 [AaronSw]

most dvd players have pluggies, but few can really plooj!

20:45:49 [sbp]

heh

20:48:06 [redmonk]

"hey, plooj this in for me will ya?"

20:54:35 [redmonk]

hm. DW thinks he's getting the semantic web: http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/04/16#l3e6e9a6eb00a8fa741cc701d72da8255

20:56:41 [AaronSw]

hey, he sorta got it this time

20:56:48 [sbp]

Gotta run

20:57:02 [redmonk]

indeed he did

20:57:10 [AaronSw]

what kind of photo is this? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object.cgi?object=/chronicle/pictures/2002/04/16/bu_web2.jpg&paper=chronicle&file=BU155164.DTL&directory=/c/a/2002/04/16&type=business

20:57:11 [redmonk]

but then he veers off onto... google?

20:57:19 [AaronSw]

google google google

20:57:45 [redmonk]

if google started reading rss or rdf natively...

20:57:59 [redmonk]

anyway

20:59:24 [redmonk]

the photo is time-lapse

20:59:34 [redmonk]

the guy is holding a flashlight

20:59:51 [redmonk]

the guy == tbl

21:00:03 [AaronSw]

ah, good idea

21:00:10 [redmonk]

which one?

21:00:14 [Morbus]

* Morbus goes back to reading faif.

21:00:19 [AaronSw]

time-lapse flashlight photos

21:00:21 [redmonk]

ah

21:00:37 [redmonk]

old as dirt - I remember WORLD doing pics of kids with sparklers

21:00:45 [redmonk]

back when i was half your age ;-)

21:00:58 [AaronSw]

yeah, but sparklers don't look the same.

21:01:11 [redmonk]

(22 year ago... agh!!)

21:01:23 [AaronSw]

tbl almost looks american in that photo. weird

21:01:35 [redmonk]

hehe

21:12:58 [redmonk]

i need a url for N3

21:13:01 [redmonk]

er, URI

21:13:24 [redmonk]

"N3, beginnners guide to" if possible

21:14:43 [redmonk]

got it

21:14:43 [redmonk]

http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/Primer.html

21:15:05 [AaronSw]

filled with Genuine Tim Typoes

21:15:51 [redmonk]

i shot dave off an email congratulating him and introducing him to n3

21:15:53 [redmonk]

;-)

21:15:59 [AaronSw]

ouvh

21:16:00 [redmonk]

since he hates XML+namespaces so much ;-)

21:20:04 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

21:27:55 [Seth]

* Seth implements the readRaw method of sem ... goes back to working in mines of speaktomecatalog.com

22:00:46 [xoot]

xoot (xoot@12.81.8.16) has joined #swhack

22:05:29 [GabeW]

GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

22:05:56 [xoot]

hello, gabe

22:16:49 [AaronSw]

groovy flash interface: http://www.wireframe.co.za/default1.htm

22:17:24 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla gets frustrated. I wish I could read code. I can only write it. Everyone else's code just leaves me stumped.

22:18:13 [AaronSw]

Hm. I thought Perl was supposed to be the write-only language. ;-)

22:19:06 [jillzilla]

Oh, I can tell what's going _on_ in the functions, easily. But all of the functions in this library take a parameter called "servers" and I can't figure out how I'm supposed to generate it. It's a dictionary.

22:19:07 [xoot]

chmod 400

22:19:08 [AaronSw]

But seriously, I've found that if you stare at code long enough, it slowly begins to make sense. For a while it's very disheartening, though.

22:19:28 [jillzilla]

Perhaps I get discouraged too easily.

22:19:34 [AaronSw]

don't you have anything that calls them?

22:19:41 [jillzilla]

maybe. I was going to look for that.

22:20:00 [GabeW]

print print print (or in "C", its printf, printf, printf)

22:20:08 [Morbus]

Morbus (morbus@s108.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

22:20:25 [jillzilla]

I'm getting indignant that nobody bothered to put in a stupid comment telling how to use this. I mean, _every_ function in this library takes this argument; it seems obvious that someone using the library would have to know what it is.

22:20:50 [Morbus]

what lib?

22:20:55 [jillzilla]

Heh. I'm being like my grandfather, who gets self-righteous when things are not As They Should Be.

22:21:02 [jillzilla]

It's a work-internal thing.

22:21:07 [AaronSw]

Heh, coders no like documentation.

22:21:21 [Morbus]

i love documentation

22:21:21 [Morbus]

i love writing it.

22:21:22 [jillzilla]

But code reviewers should.

22:21:35 [jillzilla]

Further evidence that Morbus is not well. ;-)

22:21:35 [AaronSw]

ok, except for Morbus

22:22:03 [jillzilla]

I actually get a sense of satisfaction out of writing docs that I think are good. Well, comments. I still don't like docs.

22:22:25 [GabeW]

all I do is write docs these days

22:22:31 [Morbus]

heh. jillz, have you seen my code? i go overboard on commentin. bad on the other end of the spectrum

22:22:34 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla feels much better for having complained. :-) Thanks, folks.

22:22:44 [jillzilla]

Morbus: You fill the code with stories?

22:23:00 [redmonk]

jill: you wold not believe

22:23:03 [AaronSw]

it's insane

22:23:05 [Morbus]

heh, sometimes.

22:23:05 [Morbus]

who told you that? <G>

22:23:07 [AaronSw]

he writes poetry and stuff

22:23:15 [redmonk]

and fancy borders all over

22:23:17 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla laughs.

22:23:18 [Morbus]

lol

22:23:19 [Morbus]

whoo hoo! i'm infamous.

22:23:25 [Morbus]

hheheh

22:23:30 [redmonk]

"you're a looney"

22:23:56 [AaronSw]

"# "moving on down the world. looking for a place." "

22:24:01 [AaronSw]

1.0 Initialization ("wake up, you angst-filled goose!")

22:24:20 [Morbus]

if i ever wrote a book about coding, it'd be one big code lsiting ;)

22:24:30 [jillzilla]

Oh, Morbus, you should!

22:24:35 [Morbus]

* Morbus whistles...

22:25:00 [xoot]

:D

22:25:10 [AaronSw]

yeah, for or.... oh

22:25:12 [Morbus]

yeah?

22:25:12 [Morbus]

:)

22:25:56 [Morbus]

i'd love to write a book on game programming in some "can't be done" langauge, like perl.

22:26:09 [Morbus]

you don't see many games besides parlor tricks in perl. decent open source games, i mean,

22:26:14 [Morbus]

it'd be a happy challenge.

22:26:55 [AaronSw]

maybe because perl is too slow for 3d graphics

22:27:13 [Morbus]

well, it wouldn't be a video based game.

22:27:13 [Morbus]

it'd be console/browser based only.

22:27:21 [jillzilla]

* jillzilla grins and goes back to the code.

22:27:22 [Morbus]

i actually have a large design doc with a good portion of it planned out.

22:27:24 [AaronSw]

oh, that

22:27:30 [redmonk]

have you seen 2d quake?

22:27:38 [redmonk]

ascii quake?

22:27:50 [redmonk]

(i mnea)

22:27:52 [redmonk]

mean

22:27:52 [Morbus]

although, i have been eveloping ideas of a client app that communicates strictly with a server.

22:27:52 [Morbus]

rm: yeah

22:28:00 [redmonk]

pretty funny

22:28:11 [Morbus]

does anyone like iphoto in here?

22:28:15 [Seth]

Seth has quit ()

22:28:16 [redmonk]

i do

22:28:17 [Morbus]

i dislike how it names things rolls on exports.

22:28:22 [Morbus]

imports, rather.

22:28:26 [redmonk]

uh huh

22:28:38 [redmonk]

you can rename them though

22:28:39 [Morbus]

any way around that?

22:28:49 [redmonk]

i think

22:28:53 [redmonk]

not sure

22:28:55 [Morbus]

i mean, i add like an image a day, and they're coming in as "rolls 1-2". i don't want any rolls whatsoever.

22:29:00 [Morbus]

not even by hiding the roll name.

22:29:04 [redmonk]

hm.

22:29:06 [redmonk]

no clue

22:29:07 [AaronSw]

then just hit delete

22:29:11 [AaronSw]

it's just like itunes in that sense

22:29:20 [redmonk]

have not got our digicam yet

22:29:47 [Morbus]

* Morbus sets up his fan.

22:29:48 [Morbus]

man. 85 degress. ugh!

22:30:15 [redmonk]

* redmonk points at morbus and laughs.

22:30:20 [redmonk]

it was 100 here on sunday!

22:30:31 [redmonk]

(85 today - it feels cold)

22:30:35 [Morbus]

heh. yeah. well.

22:30:50 [Morbus]

thats why i don't live in monkville.

22:30:52 [redmonk]

freakin nahwtheners

22:31:25 [Morbus]

yeah, what's your coldest weather, bitch, eh? <G>

22:31:53 [redmonk]

in PHX? probably about 15-20

22:32:09 [redmonk]

overnight in winter

22:32:13 [redmonk]

but very rare

22:32:46 [redmonk]

it's the desert - the temperature fluxuations are pretty drastic day->night

22:34:07 [xena]

xena has quit ()

22:36:14 [Morbus]

oh!

22:36:19 [Morbus]

derrick said he lost the decepticon piece.

22:36:20 [Morbus]

so i'm resending tonight.

22:36:23 [Morbus]

maybe... maybe <G>

22:37:53 [AaronSw]

heh

22:37:59 [AaronSw]

riiight. "Lost it"

22:38:05 [Morbus]

heheheh.

22:38:10 [redmonk]

heh

22:44:42 [sbp]

lol @ <jillzilla> Further evidence that Morbus is not well. ;-)

22:44:51 [xoot]

lol

22:45:07 [Morbus]

wb, sbp :)

22:45:22 [sbp]

heh: <Morbus> thats why i don't live in monkville.

22:45:43 [sbp]

thanks

22:45:43 [sbp]

bummer about the decepticon piece

22:45:43 [sbp]

but at least it means that they didn't laugh at it

22:45:52 [xena]

xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack

22:46:08 [Morbus]

either that, or it was a veiled attempt to cajole me into "losing" it as well.

22:47:00 [AaronSw]

or a hint that you'd already "lost it"

22:47:20 [Seth]

Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack

22:47:23 [AaronSw]

like these people in #infoAnarchy who claim that PDF is much nicer to read than HTML

22:48:00 [Morbus]

i've been noticing that.

22:48:06 [Morbus]

i've been trying not to comment

22:48:08 [xoot]

that's just stupid

22:50:05 [GabeW]

i read lots of both and pdf is hands down nicer - you are all wrong!

22:50:15 [sbp]

heh, the losers

22:51:04 [sbp]

heh, if I didn't think that Gabe was joking...

22:52:06 [GabeW]

actually, comparing html and pdf seems a little like apples and oranges to me

22:52:53 [GabeW]

* GabeW slaps sbp silly

22:53:16 [sbp]

no, it's more like comparing dogshit and catshit. they both stink, and I don't like touching them with barge poles

22:53:27 [sbp]

too bad: I'm already silly

22:53:50 [GabeW]

well, anyway, bye

22:54:05 [sbp]

bye

22:54:46 [GabeW]

GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")

22:55:02 [sbp]

heh: "One can write complex XSLT code in XSLScript and then generate the 100% XSLT stylesheet. Like I do. Occasionaly." - http://www.pault.com/XSLScript/pault/prod/XSLScript

22:57:48 [Morbus]

AaronSw, you'll be happy to know that i'm transitioning from rss .9 on gamegrene to only 1.0. yay.

22:57:57 [AaronSw]

woo!

22:58:00 [Morbus]

:)

22:58:10 [Morbus]

its currently at index.rdf, just unlinked.

22:58:27 [Morbus]

it'll be moving to index.xml sometime tonight.

22:58:36 [Morbus]

to replace fully the rss 9 version without broken links.

22:58:47 [AaronSw]

nice

22:58:50 [Morbus]

ooh. crap. the descirption is broken.

22:59:02 [Morbus]

welp, guess i'll be making the change now ;)

22:59:19 [xoot]

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23:01:39 [Morbus]

done!

23:01:40 [xoot]

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23:01:48 [Morbus]

it's rael 1.0 template for MT, so it should be fine.

23:01:48 [Morbus]

http://www.gamegrene.com/index.xml

23:02:21 [AaronSw]

yeah, i use rael's template too

23:02:26 [Morbus]

ah. good.

23:02:35 [Morbus]

hey, when you view it in IE view-source, do you have linefeed boxes?

23:02:39 [Morbus]

yours and/or mine?

23:03:08 [redmonk]

redmonk has quit (Remote closed the connection)

23:03:09 [AaronSw]

boxes? like funny box-chars?

23:03:13 [Morbus]

yeah

23:03:14 [AaronSw]

IE does that for all XML

23:03:17 [AaronSw]

it's a little weird

23:03:22 [Morbus]

well, no, this is for the line feeds.

23:03:29 [Morbus]

like i've seen this in normal HTML source too

23:03:29 [AaronSw]

odd. you have <br /> in one of your titles

23:03:33 [Morbus]

yeah.

23:03:37 [Morbus]

thats actually intentional.

23:03:41 [Morbus]

for display on the site.

23:03:50 [Morbus]

i've got to remove_html on it.

23:04:07 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw runs the feed thru the rss validator

23:04:34 [Morbus]

lemme know.

23:05:17 [Morbus]

i'm regen'ing now.

23:05:19 [AaronSw]

looks good. just one warning: one of your descriptions apparently > 500 characters

23:05:32 [Morbus]

that's bad?

23:05:51 [AaronSw]

no, but it does break my.netscape.com... but who cares, since they're not around anymore

23:05:57 [Morbus]

ah.

23:06:03 [Morbus]

yeah, that rarely happens so i'm not going to worry about it.

23:06:17 [AaronSw]

yeah, i wouldn't

23:07:45 [sbp]

@ http://www.scottsweeney.com/projects/slip

23:08:11 [AaronSw]

what is with this XP fuzz

23:08:23 [AaronSw]

it's like in the process of anti-aliasing they drank too much

23:08:26 [chumpster]

C: http://www.scottsweeney.com/projects/slip from sbp

23:08:34 [AaronSw]

or i'm using one of those bad LCD displaus

23:10:29 [AaronSw]

C:|SLiP: Sorta LIke Python shorthand for XML by Scott Sweeney

23:10:40 [AaronSw]

C::Neat, but the () should be optional if there are no attributes

23:10:48 [chumpster]

titled item C

23:11:08 [chumpster]

commented item C

23:11:22 [deltab]

exactly what I thought

23:12:50 [sbp]

this damn connection! it's terrible tonight

23:12:59 [AaronSw]

not as bad as DanC's :0

23:14:02 [Morbus]

i actually need a better ad software.

23:14:11 [Morbus]

this one is getting crufty and uses too much resources on heavy loads.

23:14:19 [Morbus]

anyone have any experience with one?

23:14:35 [AaronSw]

oh, it's ClearType that's making everything look like some bad LCD display

23:15:25 [xoot]

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23:16:02 [xoot]

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23:17:03 [AaronSw]

wow, this image makes my eyes hurt: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/faq/lines.gif

23:17:28 [Morbus]

what's it supposed to be?

23:17:39 [xoot]

i can't connect to microsoft.com, dunno why

23:17:45 [AaronSw]

on my machine it's alternating black and white stripes

23:18:03 [deltab]

it is

23:19:47 [sbp]

mainly black, with thin bits of grey in between

23:24:20 [AaronSw]

you must have a crt

23:25:13 [sbp]

ah, no, you're right. my graphics program blurred it by mistake (er.. O.K., I blurred it by mistake)

23:27:09 [AaronSw]

wow, mozilla is way faster than IE5

23:27:14 [AaronSw]

well, chimera

23:27:20 [xoot]

i love chim

23:27:27 [xoot]

of course!

23:27:49 [xoot]

and I also like the anti-aliased text

23:27:58 [AaronSw]

wow, deus_x wins the Dave Winer "very smart guy" award!

23:28:06 [Morbus]

heheheheh.

23:28:14 [Morbus]

fanfare for deus_x!

23:28:51 [AaronSw]

how does one increase/decrease font-size in Chimera?

23:28:59 [xoot]

ummm...

23:29:02 [xoot]

it's a beta

23:29:11 [xoot]

or maybe an alpha

23:29:16 [xoot]

but it seems promising

23:29:17 [AaronSw]

so you can't?

23:29:21 [xoot]

no

23:29:45 [xoot]

don't worry, Aaron; It is promising

23:29:52 [AaronSw]

indeed it is

23:30:06 [Morbus]

AaronSw, do you know if osascript can do a multiple line AS?

23:30:12 [AaronSw]

sure it can

23:30:18 [Morbus]

i'd like to cron a popup window, with two buttons, etc.

23:30:37 [Morbus]

for a backup script.

23:32:04 [AaronSw]

neat

23:32:31 [Morbus]

cos, i can't just cron the thing, cos then itd go online at weird momemts, etc.

23:32:37 [Morbus]

(this is a FTP-to-HD backup thing)

23:32:50 [Morbus]

so I want a "yes, i'm online" button.

23:32:53 [AaronSw]

gotta run: dinner