00:01:18 aha, i just needed to change the colors 00:07:03 * AaronSw fiddles with his emacs HTML template 00:12:45 tomch has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:14:14 since "And she liked her lovers violent, and vicious: / Queenie was sexually ambitious." suddenly popped into my head, i'm adding The Wild Party to my books-to-read list 00:15:07 i don't argue with the voices in my head 00:15:22 * jillzilla nods solemnly. 00:19:42 chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:20:40 * AaronSw deletes xoot-remnants from the blog 00:20:43 xoot (xoot@115.sanjose-03-04rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack 00:20:54 speak of the devil 00:21:46 chumpster (nobody@xd84b5c5a.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 00:22:06 chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:22:32 Hmm... 00:22:57 weird 00:23:12 in the first ten minutes of running windows me, a BSOD appeared 00:23:26 let's see how that goes 00:23:27 that's a bit much 00:23:38 please take that off 00:25:19 chumpster (nobody@xd84b5c5a.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 00:25:41 sbp has changed the topic to: And now back to our normal programming... (kinda) 00:26:06 ick, funny character 00:26:15 which one? 00:26:31 sbp has changed the topic to: And now back to our normal programming... (kinda) 00:26:32 the one you always complain about when i use 00:26:34 ah, that one :-) 00:26:50 * sbp goes to get a drink 00:29:26 xoot has quit ("bbl :D") 00:30:05 Morbus and rm are going to *freak* :-) 00:30:14 Ash has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:31:09 xoot (xoot@115.sanjose-03-04rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack 00:55:21 Morbus (morbus@s96.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 01:00:34 did I miss anything exciting? 01:00:40 answered craploads of emails. 01:00:46 * AaronSw points to xena 01:00:46 now i'm revising the newest ora piece. 01:00:48 err xoot 01:00:56 you know, i never did hear back from them on the decepticons thing/ 01:01:08 i've sent like 5 emails on it. the last one was "are you just chuckling or ignoring me?" 01:01:19 holy crap. xoot's back. 01:01:19 what happened? 01:01:52 we cloned him just to freak you out 01:02:41 right down to his dns too. nice job! ;) 01:05:11 logster, where am I? 01:05:11 See http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-04-16#T01-05-11 01:05:30 thanks, logster 01:06:58 xoot, you're in san jose. you going to wwdc? 01:07:46 Note that Apple says they're demoing 10.2 at WWDC, not releasing 01:08:17 yeah, well, i half-expected that anyways. 01:08:33 did you read that osopinion concerning amd/nvidia and apple? 01:08:51 nah 01:08:52 something along those lines, at least. 01:09:36 Gotta run: dinner 01:09:47 heh: 00:30:05 [sbp] Morbus and rm are going to *freak* :-) 01:18:31 tansaku has quit () 01:20:15 sniff. 01:26:05 sniff? 01:26:22 yeah. no discussions. 01:27:51 heh 01:33:54 wb Aaron 01:34:00 thanks 01:34:29 how about a discussion now? 01:34:44 nah. let's have a few minutes more silence :-) 01:35:05 'k 01:35:28 heh, heh. 01:35:42 what sort of discussion, per chance, xoot? 01:36:42 Interesting: M- searches thru your history in bash 01:36:56 whee! $ lynx http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-04-16.txt -source -dump > swhack; lynx http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2002-04-16.txt -source -dump > rdfig; cat rdfig swhack | sort 01:37:11 curl, curl, curl! 01:37:11 [[[ 01:37:12 01:26:05 sniff? 01:37:12 01:26:22 yeah. no discussions. 01:37:12 01:27:51 heh 01:37:12 01:33:43 back. 01:37:12 01:33:54 wb Aaron 01:37:14 01:34:00 thanks 01:37:16 ]]] 01:37:26 heh 01:37:33 kinda scary 01:37:33 it makes so much more sense when you fold the two together :-) 01:38:23 what mac would you get instead if you had to have a top-of-the line PC 01:38:43 tibook. 01:38:44 G4, G3, 9600, Quadra, or Performa 01:38:57 heh. I said G3 01:39:00 g4. 01:39:20 oh? 01:41:33 GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:42:20 xoot has quit ("bbl :D") 01:45:53 AaronSw has changed the topic to: And now back to our normal programming... (kinda) 01:46:08 AaronSw has changed the topic to: € 01:46:13 ah, the xoot's on the other foot now 01:46:43 AaronSw has changed the topic to: [interrobang] 01:46:55 heh, heh 01:47:16 U+203D, BWT 01:48:01 AaronSw, my Leecharoo script has been modularized, and now uses an apache style config. 01:48:14 which is nice. 01:48:21 heh! 01:48:35 as it is right now, anyone could add a new scraping thing, and all the user would have to do is add a new block in his config file. 01:48:40 * sbp bets that that wasn't a reference to the Fast Show, but laughs anyway 01:48:41 can i blurb it here to discuss it with ya? 01:48:55 I don't have anything to discuss 01:49:00 hmm? 01:49:01 Leecharoo is such a kick-ass name... 01:49:30 right, but I wanted to talk about naming / functions. 01:49:41 sbp: the logo's gonna be even cooler. 01:49:46 i should get it in about two weeks. 01:50:04 ok, fine 01:50:20 heh, heh. 01:50:20 nevermind. 01:51:15 a big leech with the body of a kangaroo? 01:51:58 no. 01:52:02 aw 01:52:04 its either a kangaroo running around stealing shit into his pouch. 01:52:18 or a kangaroo with a super-overstuffed pouch and one of those innocent "who me?" looks. 01:52:36 heh; I don't envy the artist of their task 01:52:46 who is the artist? 01:52:51 or maybe a kangaroo with leeches for hands. 01:52:51 Hhmmm. 01:52:51 01:53:03 sbp: the same artist did the syncasaurus logo. 01:53:33 Aaron: apparently the same artist did the syncasaurus logo, according to Morbus 01:53:41 AaronSw: a long time friend of mine. she illustrates childrens books and other thingies. 01:53:53 heh 01:56:34 ooh, UFO spam! 01:56:36 UFO spam is so damn cool - choc full of conspiracy theory goodness, and not a porn/product in sight 01:56:38 it's still spam though, so annoying 01:57:05 i've been getting lots of casino spam recently. 01:57:20 ah, product oriented 01:57:24 spamassasin has killed all my spam 01:57:31 heh, poor Aaron 01:57:42 although, I got a good one from some Adobe guy recently 01:57:50 half-clever spam 01:57:56 i've been meaning to add that to my server for testing. 01:58:02 then was gonna move it to the main server 01:58:19 it said "hi, I read your article at [cover pages URI] about XML and PDF... here's my product!" 01:58:21 AaronSw: you running it in daemon mode or through procmail or what? 01:58:24 or something like that 01:58:32 redmonk (~steve@ip68-2-102-26.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack 01:58:35 thru .qmail 01:58:56 sbp, yeah, i got that too 01:58:57 hey redmonk. close, but no biscuit 01:59:42 hi sbp, aaron 01:59:48 and Morb 02:00:06 lurking in the shadows lies the dormant Morbus of Iff 02:00:14 stalking your sensibilities 02:00:51 mu hah! mu hah, I say! 02:01:00 heh, heh 02:02:08 I can imagine you herding quezlots in your old age on Iffington Farm 02:02:12 hehe 02:03:20 quezlots? 02:03:25 this is just merkle puzzles all over again: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992067 02:04:51 sounds like a bit of a dead end 02:05:13 * sbp may end up eating his words... hopes that they taste of chocolate 02:05:28 "Attack success rate while Counterpane was watching: 0.006%. Attacks that succeeded long enough to cause damage while Counterpane was watching: 0.00%." 02:05:43 Merkle Puzzles are very cool. Poor Ralph. 02:06:10 Gee Charlie Brown, that sure is clever... yes sir! What's "Counterpane"? 02:06:48 Counterpane is Bruce Schneier's company to protect networks from intruders (crackers) 02:06:59 thru active monitoring 02:07:04 O.K. 02:08:15 Ralph? I heard Eve 02:08:42 but hey, there you go 02:08:47 Eve? 02:08:58 http://cactus.eas.asu.edu/partha/Teaching/539.2002/Merkles-puzzle.htm 02:09:29 (I know, Ralph Merkle...) 02:09:48 Oh. 02:10:05 but Eve's the one doing the puzzles, so I dunno what you meant :-) 02:10:15 I meant what I said. 02:10:24 Poor Ralph. 02:10:56 he lacks money? perhaps he should have patented his method 02:11:34 I meant it in the sense that he invented this great system and never got any of the credit. 02:11:57 asu.edu would disagree :-) 02:12:13 but yeah... I'd not heard of him 02:12:37 As in Diffie-Hellmann get all the credit 02:12:45 and he was years earlier 02:13:05 oh! it's the guy that patented the crap with them 02:13:09 I had heard of him 02:13:42 He didn't patent stuff with them, did he? 02:14:21 I think so (but the site appears to have gone down) 02:14:26 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 02:14:28 Oh, so he did. 02:14:36 Well that patent was invalid anyway, cf. djb 02:15:31 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 02:16:28 what did djb have to say about it? 02:17:22 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 02:18:05 http://cr.yp.to/patents/us/4200770.html 02:19:30 thanks 02:20:04 interesting 02:20:11 nice piece on time: http://cr.yp.to/proto/utctai.html 02:20:25 djb is just filled with loads of good stuff 02:20:34 cool bit about leap seconds from that page: [[[ 02:20:34 1997-06-30 23:59:59 UTC = 1997-07-01 00:00:29 TAI 02:20:34 1997-06-30 23:59:60 UTC = 1997-07-01 00:00:30 TAI 02:20:34 1997-07-01 00:00:00 UTC = 1997-07-01 00:00:31 TAI 02:20:35 ]]] 02:20:46 it'd be good to hook xena up to a real NTP server 02:21:28 doesn't she run ntpd? 02:21:47 hm, guess not 02:25:48 uh oh: "Y2036 and Y2038 disasters" 02:26:47 redmonk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:27:00 heh, let's worry about it now to save us doing it then 02:27:38 [[[ 02:27:38 In *CACM*, January 1997, page 15, Robert L. Glass reveals his shocking new 02:27:38 discovery that UNIX time, a 32-bit signed integer representing the number of 02:27:38 seconds after 1969 TAI, will overflow in mid-January 2038. (``And even 02:27:38 sooner for smaller-word processors.'') 02:27:44 ]]] - http://www.infowar.com/iwftp/risks/risks-18/18_77.txt 02:28:16 wmf (~wesley@valentine.felter.org) has joined #swhack 02:28:30 hi wmf, we're discussing the Y2038 crisis 02:28:53 chuckle:- 02:28:54 [[[ 02:28:54 P.S. In all seriousness: I'm converting my data to 64-bit signed times, 02:28:54 stored big-endian in 8 bytes, followed by 8 bytes for nanoseconds and 02:28:54 attoseconds just in case. This won't last for more than a few hundred 02:28:54 billion years, but neither will the Sun, and in any case I plan to throw 02:28:56 a big programming party on 1 January 2000000001 to upgrade to 128 bits. 02:28:58 ]]] 02:29:15 - ibid. 02:29:28 IRC needs to support Unicode so you can put a real interrobang in the topic 02:29:55 I still think that U+203D would have sufficed 02:30:10 anyone know some good ntp servers? 02:30:17 tock.usno.mil 02:30:27 can't trust the militrary 02:30:29 er... .navy/mil 02:30:33 they'll fake me out to break my crypto 02:30:43 xoot (~aquachat@91.sanjose-15rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack 02:30:58 argh, try again: tock.usno.navy.mil 02:31:08 apparently there's an extinction-causing asteroid that's going to hit around '38, so we don't need to worry about Unix 02:31:10 follow links from www.ntp.org 02:31:31 asteroid? 02:31:31 ooh, cool site 02:33:01 heh 02:33:31 * AaronSw apt installs clockspeed, removes ntp 02:33:51 * sbp tried compiling it, but it didn't want to go 02:35:24 * xoot uses raw irc commands 02:36:12 Anyone else know raw irc? 02:36:31 ircushi 02:37:04 like PRIVMSG 02:37:25 I hate them :p 02:37:37 requires a lot of typing 02:37:42 I know jack about IRC 02:38:27 xoot has left #swhack 02:38:56 Gotta run 02:42:25 Hm, clockspeed installation is high-maintenance 02:43:00 good thing i have entourage to remind me 03:10:27 Seth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:01:03 heh: "rsync can use zlib to compress traffic (and introduce double-free() security holes :-), at the option of the client." 04:01:45 at least they're honest 04:03:12 The DFSG GPL problem is sort of funny. 04:03:21 ? 04:03:36 Debian has a policy of only distributing free software. 04:03:43 ok 04:03:45 and the GPL requires that the GPL is included with GPLed software 04:03:54 ah, I see where this is goin 04:04:00 but the GPL's license is in violation of the DFSG 04:04:14 (because it can't be modified) 04:04:42 so technically all GPL software is in violation of debian policy 04:05:08 actually, I don't think GPL'ed packages in Debian include the text of the GPL 04:05:19 there's probably one package that includes it 04:05:19 Why's that? 04:05:41 I think Debian has some policy about not wanting to put 5000 copies of the GPL on your disk 04:06:13 hm. it seems to be in /usr/share/doc/package-name/copyright, but it may just be a link 04:06:34 ls -la will tell you 04:06:41 ah, they just say: 04:06:43 Released under the terms of the GPL; see 04:06:52 /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL. 04:07:00 there you go 04:07:25 which in itself is a link to GPL-2 04:07:57 I was thinking the other day that we need URIs for gpl-x and gpl-x-or-later 04:08:13 and latest-gpl, i guess 04:08:26 if there's ever a GPLv3 I predict mass confusion 04:08:39 why's that? 04:09:19 hm. is gnomovision a real program? 04:09:32 or maybe there will just be protests by people who put their code under GPLv2-or-later and don't like the terms of v3 04:09:43 yeah, probably 04:09:56 and everyone will be like "too bad, you were stupid" 04:10:01 heh, found a new joke in this: 04:10:03 Yoyodyne, Inc., hereby disclaims all copyright interest in the program 04:10:03 `Gnomovision' (which makes passes at compilers) written by James Hacker. 04:10:03 , 1 April 1989 04:10:03 Ty Coon, President of Vice 04:10:07 I love that bit 04:10:25 didn't alan cox write gnomovision? 04:10:50 hm: http://www.advogato.org/proj/Gnomovision/ 04:11:14 BlogniX is a blogger client for Linux. 04:11:18 interesting name 04:11:32 is http://www.advogato.org/person/linus/ linus torvalds? 04:11:36 * wmf is surfing freshmeat 04:11:47 I doubt it 04:12:17 i am disappointed. the real gnomovision does not make passes at compilers 04:12:29 the trust metric is great for what it does... 04:13:26 heh, Yoyodyne got bought out by yahoo 04:13:54 I really should delete all HTML mail that I get 04:14:05 Ty Coon is probably running the pay-for-submission systems these days 04:14:39 ooh, another joke: 1 April 04:15:38 Hm, GPL section 8 is quite sucky. I never noticed that before. 04:16:04 I wonder how many hackers with GPLed code actually read the GPL 04:16:24 very few 04:17:29 I was promoting the MPL for quite a while before I discovered the upgrade clause 04:17:45 Heh 04:18:29 I was thinking about writing a simplified GPL, but it'd probably just be a waste. 04:18:51 I wonder how many people follow 2a: "You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change." 04:19:58 use diff 04:23:41 "If the Program does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software Foundation." 04:23:53 scary 04:24:23 what happens when stallman dies and someone crazy issues GPL -1 ;) 04:24:53 nah, there are plenty of stallmanistas lined up to take over for him 04:25:00 phew 04:26:52 Hm, the GPL refers to the old LGPL 04:27:22 what do you think about that web services GPL that came out recently? 04:27:40 web services GPL? 04:27:55 wizgipple? 04:27:56 yeah. affero something? 04:28:14 Hadn't heard of it. Interesting. 04:28:21 affero GPL 04:28:42 stallman's for it: http://www.gnu.org/press/2002-03-19-Affero 04:29:29 hm. the new clause is: " If the Program as you received it is intended to interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version you received, any user interacting with the Program was given the opportunity to request transmission to that user of the Program's complete source code, you must not remove that facility from your modified version of the Program or work based on the Program, and must offer an equivalent opportunity for all users int 04:29:29 twork to request immediate transmission by HTTP of the complete source code of your modified version or other derivative work. 04:29:44 the FSF "is considering including this additional provision in the upcoming version of the GNU GPL 3.0" 04:30:18 the dependence on HTTP is a bit sucky 04:32:27 hm, where is GPL 1? 04:34:17 aha: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copying-1.0.html 04:35:59 I wonder what's at 59 Temple Place. I'm tempted to visit and ask for a license. 04:38:16 Hm. GPL1 lacks the patent clauses. Maybe I should use it instead... 04:38:56 another entourage bug: the scrollbar thumb doesn't track the cursor 04:45:18 It's named after my favorite unicode character! 04:45:29 I think he means this channel. 04:45:55 having a favorite unicode character might be a sign of problems 04:46:26 * jillzilla laughs to the point of pain. 04:46:28 I have to agree. 04:47:02 eric claims to be normal. He's threatening to do the normie-boy dance to prove it. 04:47:04 * jillzilla runs. 04:49:16 I think a lot of people like the interrobang, which predates Unicode, I might note. 04:49:19 @ 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org 04:49:32 oops 04:49:39 @ http://3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org 04:50:13 redmonk (~steve@ip68-2-102-26.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack 04:50:19 A: http://3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org from AaronSw 04:50:28 A::Awesome domain name! 04:50:44 commented item A 04:51:40 * jillzilla waves and goes home. 04:52:18 G'nie 04:52:20 err nite 04:55:57 Who's Eric? 04:56:10 One of my coworkers. 04:56:20 Not Mr. Eric, right? 04:56:23 dnm and he know someone in common. 04:56:27 er, Mr. Schmidt 04:56:30 No. 04:56:36 There are several erics. 04:56:40 Phew. 04:56:53 This one is a python demigod, or perhaps hemidemigod. 04:57:24 really going home now. :-) 04:57:26 * jillzilla disappears. 05:09:07 hey redmonk 05:18:29 .time pst 05:18:29 Apr. 15, 2002 10:18 pm US/Pacific 05:18:54 somebody's clock is screwed up 05:26:45 hi wes 05:28:53 that looks like a reasonable time 05:29:31 yes, that's reasonable but i was using it to compare with someone else's unreasonable time 05:29:37 they thought it was 5:40AM tomorrow PST 05:29:40 ah 05:30:04 today I discovered that the time zone on my new thinkpad was wrong 05:30:24 I got a meeting invitation that said 11:30 PM and I knew it couldn't be right 05:30:31 heh heh 05:32:19 ah Dan Brickley has discovered the relatable problem 05:37:10 hm, freeamp.org seems down 05:37:42 what is the relatable problem? 05:38:41 the TRM algorithm has two parts; one runs on the client and one runs on *one* server owned by relatable 05:38:57 oh, that problem. i thought everyone knew that 05:39:14 it certainly took me a while to discover it 05:39:48 hm. i guess it's mb's dirty secret 05:40:10 my laundry is done; time for bed 05:40:15 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 05:51:50 hm, i need to exchange fingerprints more 05:51:58 odd, i'd never imported wmf's key 05:56:20 alright, i better sleep too. nite all 06:12:40 redmonk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:06:03 tansaku has quit () 08:39:45 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:58:16 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:58:37 tansaku (~sam@h131-245.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:53:25 * sbp waves 12:54:07 wow @ A on chumpster 14:00:14 hi 14:00:15 @ http://diveintoosx.org/ 14:01:53 B: http://diveintoosx.org/ from AaronSw 14:02:11 B:|Dive into OS X, An OS X Wiki 14:02:32 titled item B 14:12:12