IRC log of swhack on 2002-01-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:19 [AaronSw]
M::Bots are an interesting combination of command lines and Web services. I find myself using xena quite a bit.
00:00:20 [tav`]
this the blest lover shall for venus take!
00:00:25 [chumpster]
commented item M
00:00:31 [wmf]
tav`: can you get me a Segway?
00:00:39 [tav`]
lol
00:00:49 [tav`]
been a good boy this year?
00:00:54 [AaronSw]
What do you need one for, you've got a car. I got dibs
00:01:31 [wmf]
a black-market segway has extreme greek cred
00:02:18 [tav`]
M::aierus are the future!
00:02:21 [chumpster]
commented item M
00:02:53 [AaronSw]
tav, what do you think of the Singularity?
00:03:12 [sbp]
all who go near it will be sucked into oblivion
00:03:13 [AaronSw]
[[[
00:03:15 [AaronSw]
For those of us confused by the maddeningly vague, numbingly­written WAI Web Accessibility documents, the State of Illinois has prepared a nicely condensed, easy­to­understand tutorial on the subject. Unfortunately, the tutorial is in PDF format, making it inaccessible. (Hat tip: Anonymous Donor A.)
00:03:20 [AaronSw]
]]] - http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0102b.html#birthday
00:03:32 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh
00:03:43 [deltab]
he
00:04:06 [tav`]
* tav` declines to comment
00:04:16 [AaronSw]
why's that?
00:04:41 [tav`]
no comment
00:04:53 [wmf]
the Celeron is up to 1.3GHz; I feel so behind the times
00:05:07 [tav`]
wmf: heh, pj33r my 550 mhz cpu!
00:05:20 [wmf]
lucky bastard!
00:05:41 [sbp]
Ooh, CPU wars?
00:06:24 [AaronSw]
[[[Classical Fiddle Music: George "Big-Paw" Gershwin and his "Rhapsody in Blue Polkadots"]]] - Prarie Home Companion
00:14:48 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw grabs Radio 7
00:14:49 [AaronSw]
err 8
00:14:57 [sbp]
* sbp notes that almost all RDF APIs have a Node/Resource, Triple/Statement, and Graph/Store
00:15:07 [wmf]
radio looks nice
00:17:35 [AaronSw]
PHC: "James Joyce was one of the greatest writers of the 21st century, you can now use his tips to write your business letters."
00:17:37 [AaronSw]
hilarious!
00:18:00 [wmf]
somebody alert Jorn
00:18:47 [AaronSw]
"The stream of consciousness style is so good for memos... and client letters too!"
00:19:10 [deltab]
bahaha
00:19:14 [sbp]
lol
00:19:21 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw hunts for a transcript.
00:19:34 [AaronSw]
@ http://phc.mpr.org/performances/20000304/joyce_business_school.html
00:19:41 [chumpster]
N: APHC: Saturday, March 4, 2000 from AaronSw
00:19:49 [AaronSw]
N:|James Joyce Business School
00:19:51 [chumpster]
titled item N
00:20:13 [AaronSw]
N::"Do you find it frustrating to write business letters and memos that say all that you want to say? Maybe it's time you considered a business writing course at the James Joyce Business School. James Joyce was one of the greatest writers of the Twentieth Century. Now you can use his principles to improve your own business writing."
00:20:15 [chumpster]
commented item N
00:20:32 [AaronSw]
Jorn's resume:
00:20:33 [AaronSw]
--
00:20:34 [AaronSw]
Dear Sir or Madam or Sodom or Whom It May Confirm:
00:20:34 [AaronSw]
I understand you are hiring programmers and hereby present my amplification for annoyment by your firm. As you see, I see, juicy lucy goosy poosy, I have long expedience in grammar and was medicated in the best schools and my dram is to ride underwear. On my clothes is my consomme. Please feel free.
00:20:35 [AaronSw]
I remain your humble serpent.
00:20:36 [AaronSw]
--
00:21:29 [sbp]
Patent pending
00:22:23 [sbp]
Dear Mr. Pending, [...]
00:23:11 [AaronSw]
Have you written up your plex questions yet?
00:24:37 [sbp]
Nope
00:24:43 [AaronSw]
Well, do so already.
00:24:46 [AaronSw]
Ooh: http://www.distributed.net/webcams/
00:24:54 [sbp]
hey! That's my link
00:25:45 [sbp]
Hmm... that's funny, I didn't record it on my little "record browsing session" spree
00:25:53 [AaronSw]
<sbp> wow, that's kinda scary. Just browsing the Internet, and up pops Morbus
00:25:53 [AaronSw]
not only that, but using information i gave him! and he didn't even credit me.
00:26:00 [sbp]
lol!
00:26:23 [AaronSw]
Heh, you fell for the raelity pun: "Real got an iPod"
00:26:31 [sbp]
argh
00:26:47 [sbp]
down to dumb-assed typing
00:27:04 [sbp]
D'ya want me to just paste questions in here, or send them somewhere else?
00:27:35 [deltab]
does that mean it supports RealAudio now? :-)
00:28:10 [AaronSw]
sbp: whatever's easier for you. i intend to send it to plex-talk or throw it on the site when we're done
00:28:43 [sbp]
Mmmkay
00:29:38 [AaronSw]
Heh, http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200201/msg00072.html is pretty funny.
00:35:02 [sbp]
:-)
00:35:10 [sbp]
Here's a handful of things
00:35:11 [sbp]
* Does the success of 'Plex depend upon it being install on as many computers as possible? Who's going to do the PR?
00:35:11 [sbp]
* Why is 'Plex better than any of the current P2P implementations - i.e. what are the features that put it a cut above the rest?
00:35:11 [sbp]
* What languages is 'Plex going to be programmed in? How is it going to be shipped - as code to run, or a packaged binary, or a choice?
00:35:17 [sbp]
* There are very few easy to get SHA5** implmenetations lying about. Do the Plex developers intend to create their own implementation, or attempt to package one up?
00:35:18 [sbp]
* How does 'Plex work? More specifically: * Can I simply retrieve files by their hash/URI, and how does this work in general? * How does it remain anonymous
00:35:18 [sbp]
* Are you expecting all internet/Web related apps. to be be based on 'Plex technologies in the future?
00:35:25 [sbp]
* What is there to stop any other group of people designing a rival 'Plex? What would happen if they did?
00:35:25 [sbp]
* How many people are currently working on the Plex project? When can I expect to install some working code?
00:35:25 [sbp]
* Will data ever be deleted from the Plex? What happens if someone tries to flood the network - is 'Plex resistant to attacks?
00:35:28 [sbp]
* How much will 'Plex cost me? Seriously now
00:35:36 [AaronSw]
maybe you should have just emailed these to me. :-)
00:35:46 [AaronSw]
* Why do I keep saying 'Plex?
00:35:51 [sbp]
nah, I want real-time answers. Make you sweat
00:36:00 [sbp]
'Plex = the Plex. Plex = Plex
00:36:41 [sbp]
s/rival 'Plex/Plex/
00:37:05 [sbp]
feel free to answer via. IRC, email, or HTTP
00:37:14 [sbp]
or all three. Hey, I'm easy
00:37:27 [sbp]
But you must answer by sundown tomorrow
00:37:36 [AaronSw]
heh, heh
00:37:39 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw starts on it
00:37:43 [sbp]
:-)
00:40:58 [AaronSw]
--
00:40:59 [AaronSw]
Does the success of the Plex depend upon it being install on as many computers as possible?
00:41:01 [AaronSw]
Of course not. Obvious the Plex benefits from the "Network Effect", meaning that the more people who use it, the more valuable the system becomes. However, the Plex is perfectly useful even if there are only a small number of users participating.
00:41:01 [AaronSw]
Who's going to do the PR?
00:41:02 [AaronSw]
Who did the PR for the Internet? The Web? The Plex is completely non-commercial, and we feel that if it's useful, it will be news on its own. If you'd like to ask us questions about it, you can of course <a href="mailto:webmaster@plexdev.org">send us an email</a>.
00:41:03 [AaronSw]
--
00:42:18 [sbp]
ooh, he's 1/5 of the way through already, and it's not even sunrise
00:42:34 [AaronSw]
I'm going to use this for a FAQ.
00:42:48 [AaronSw]
How does it sound? is it too commercial?
00:42:55 [sbp]
no, those are good answers
00:43:11 [sbp]
does this sound too commercial to you: "The Plex is completely non-commercial"?
00:43:23 [AaronSw]
heh.
00:43:30 [AaronSw]
i meant comerciallian.
00:43:41 [AaronSw]
like: "this toothpaste will make you happy and joyous for the rest of your life!"
00:44:03 [sbp]
If the Plex were a toothpaste, people would eat it
00:44:16 [sbp]
no, I don't think it's too commerciallian
00:45:04 [sbp]
although I must admit that I fail to see how it's going to be useful if there are only five users. You can bung that in the FAQ too, if you like :-)
00:45:44 [AaronSw]
It's useful in the same way the Web was with just particle physicists.
00:45:53 [sbp]
lol
00:45:59 [sbp]
Mmmkay
00:46:45 [AaronSw]
--
00:46:45 [AaronSw]
Why is the Plex better than any of the current P2P implementations - i.e. what are the features that put it a cut above the rest?
00:46:46 [AaronSw]
We've tried to learn from many of the current P2P systems in the Plex, and of course the network is continuously evolving and improving. However, phase one of the Plex project focuses on metadata, something few P2P networks have tackled. We feel that this is really going to be useful and poweful if done right.
00:46:46 [AaronSw]
--
00:47:32 [sbp]
apart from the invention of a new adj., that's also a good response
00:47:55 [AaronSw]
which adj. is that?
00:48:02 [sbp]
poweful
00:51:05 [sbp]
ooh, wacky coding:-
00:51:06 [sbp]
[[[
00:51:06 [sbp]
document = string.replace(document, '\r\n', '\n')
00:51:06 [sbp]
document = string.replace(document, '\r', '\n')
00:51:07 [sbp]
]]]
00:51:38 [sbp]
document.replace('\r', '\n') # would have done it
00:52:01 [AaronSw]
umm, i don't think so
00:52:08 [sbp]
really?
00:52:19 [AaronSw]
well, not by itself.
00:52:23 [sbp]
well, document = ...
00:52:51 [AaronSw]
you'd still need the '\r\n' line
00:53:00 [sbp]
why?
00:53:12 [AaronSw]
for platforms that use that as their line ending
00:53:18 [sbp]
oh yeah, to reduce it down
00:53:23 [AaronSw]
right
00:53:28 [sbp]
Pff
00:53:39 [AaronSw]
otherwise you'd get the annoying double-blanks you see quite a bit
00:54:02 [sbp]
(which are, incedentally, O.K.)
00:54:10 [AaronSw]
i can't stand them
00:54:28 [sbp]
well, this is in the NTriples parser, so the string doesn't get output'd
00:54:51 [AaronSw]
oh
00:54:56 [AaronSw]
--
00:54:57 [AaronSw]
What languages is the Plex going to be programmed in?
00:54:58 [AaronSw]
We're currently programming in Python, but we'll probably use C modules and perhaps have some code in C for speed.
00:54:58 [AaronSw]
How is it going to be shipped - as code to run, or a packaged binary, or a choice?
00:54:58 [AaronSw]
On most platforms we'll have compiled versions of the C code with a copy of the Python code that you can just run. Of course all source code wil be available.
00:55:00 [AaronSw]
--
00:55:27 [AaronSw]
Why SHA5**?
00:55:45 [AaronSw]
There are very few easy to get SHA512 implementations lying about. Do the Plex developers intend to create their own implementation, or attempt to package one up?
00:55:46 [AaronSw]
See above.
00:55:56 [AaronSw]
Especially the bit about C code.
00:56:44 [sbp]
SHA5**: easier to type. Heh, I dunno. Just making the world a more magical place, I suppose
00:57:11 [sbp]
I could do SHA*1*, but it's not so easy to type
00:57:33 [sbp]
and people won't have the feign test clue what I'm barfing on about
00:58:07 [AaronSw]
heh: feighn test
00:58:10 [sbp]
admittedly, it will therefore make little difference...
00:58:23 [sbp]
:-)
00:58:46 [wmf]
* wmf starts a rumor that plex is using SHA517
00:58:53 [sbp]
heh, heh
00:58:53 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh, heh.
01:00:19 [wmf]
it'll be totally incompatible with everything else!
01:00:50 [AaronSw]
That's sort of a good thing, since it won't break anyone else who requires hashes to be one-way. ;-)
01:04:06 [AaronSw]
Hmm, seems sort of odd that Raph's remailer list is at sendfakemail.com
01:05:25 [wmf]
where?
01:05:48 [AaronSw]
- http://www.sendfakemail.com/~raph/remailer-list.html
01:06:20 [wmf]
that is odd
01:06:44 [AaronSw]
it's got good google power too
01:08:11 [AaronSw]
anyone have a lay-person's description of the anonymous remailer network?
01:08:47 [sbp]
argh
01:08:47 [AaronSw]
ah, here we go: http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html
01:09:09 [sbp]
s/else: self.ruid = ruid.RUID()/else: self.uri = 'urn:x-ruid:'+ruid.RUID()/
01:09:29 [AaronSw]
no...
01:09:35 [AaronSw]
that might cause problems
01:10:08 [sbp]
why?
01:10:40 [AaronSw]
because people will want their anon-nodes back (and still anonymous)
01:11:44 [sbp]
*grumble*
01:11:45 [AaronSw]
I wish someone would implement DC-nets already.
01:11:52 [sbp]
.google DC-nets
01:11:53 [xena]
DC-nets: http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO63766,00.html
01:11:56 [AaronSw]
what's that grumble about? anon nodes?
01:12:04 [AaronSw]
DC: dining cryptographers
01:12:09 [sbp]
Mmmhmm :-)
01:12:20 [AaronSw]
Don't you know that story?
01:12:37 [sbp]
Nope
01:12:45 [AaronSw]
Ooh, cool. I love this story.
01:12:54 [AaronSw]
So a bunch of cryptographers go out for dinner.
01:12:59 [sbp]
oh crap, what have I done?
01:13:03 [sbp]
carry on...
01:13:06 [AaronSw]
They have a nice meal, and at the end the waiter announces that it's already been paid for.
01:13:17 [AaronSw]
So the cyrptographers wonder if it was one of them, or the NSA who paid for it.
01:13:46 [AaronSw]
So they all take out a coin, and flip it, showing only the person on their left the result.
01:14:14 [AaronSw]
Then everyone XORs the two coins they can see.
01:14:18 [AaronSw]
Do you know how XOR works?
01:14:29 [sbp]
exclusive OR: no
01:14:37 [sbp]
heh, heh, carry on
01:14:49 [AaronSw]
If the two bits are the same you get a 0, if they're different you get a 1.
01:15:01 [AaronSw]
so then they add up all the XORed bits.
01:15:25 [AaronSw]
unless you paid for the meal, in which case you report the opposite bit.
01:15:38 [AaronSw]
reverse the order of those last two lines
01:15:43 [sbp]
oh man
01:15:46 [wmf]
I think it should be called Drinking Cryptographers, but that's neither here nor there
01:16:10 [AaronSw]
if the sum of the bits is even, it was the NSA, otherwise it was one of the cyrptographers.
01:16:23 [sbp]
O.K.
01:16:47 [AaronSw]
this is completely anonymous -- it works even with two people and someone observing the bits folks called out.
01:17:13 [AaronSw]
(obviously with two people they know who's speaking but the observer doesn't)
01:17:16 [sbp]
oh man, you mean I watched that whole story, and there's no joke at the end of it? Well thanks - I just wasted five minutes!
01:17:39 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:17:55 [AaronSw]
wmf, perhaps cryptographers can't come up with secure systems while drunk
01:18:13 [sbp]
O.K., all that's good, but where would you like this implemented? Scenario?
01:18:24 [sbp]
I mean, a better scenario then "who paid for dinner?"
01:18:40 [AaronSw]
well, anywhere you want anonymous communication... the who paid for dinner question can be seen as one bit -- repeat the process for each bit
01:18:57 [AaronSw]
there are more complexities for dealing with noise and two people talking at once, of course
01:21:49 [AaronSw]
--
01:21:51 [AaronSw]
**How does the Plex work?
01:21:51 [AaronSw]
* Can I simply retrieve files by their hash/URI, and how does this work in general?
01:21:52 [AaronSw]
The Plex is built upon a hash-to-plaintext system which will allow you to retrieve files, but this is not the Plex's main usage. Instead, the Plex will allow you to retrieve all sorts of information about a URI. One type of information, of course, is a representation of the URI, like what you might get if you typed that URI into a Web browser.
01:21:52 [AaronSw]
* How does it remain anonymous?
01:21:53 [AaronSw]
We plan to use a system similar to that of the <a href="http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html">anonymous remailer network</a> currently in existence, with a number of modifications.
01:22:13 [AaronSw]
--
01:22:26 [sbp]
ah, hence the research
01:22:40 [AaronSw]
Yep.
01:23:25 [sbp]
What's up with RDF API? Are you binning it, or what?
01:23:43 [AaronSw]
No, it's going to be the way app developers talk to the Plex.
01:23:53 [sbp]
Through RDF API?
01:24:02 [AaronSw]
Yeah, and perhaps some abstraction layers above it.
01:24:07 [sbp]
will Python be fast enough?
01:24:09 [AaronSw]
Like SPARTA.
01:24:16 [AaronSw]
For most things.
01:24:19 [sbp]
oh, mnot's thing?
01:24:30 [AaronSw]
yeah -- altho i hope to change it quite a bit
01:24:40 [sbp]
No updates for a long while
01:25:36 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I really want to work on it, but I've been sort of busy... Primer, UK, Blogspace, PyChord.
01:25:59 [sbp]
Oh yeah, how's PyChord coming along? And PyBlogspace?
01:26:23 [AaronSw]
PyChord is coming along pretty well. PyBlogspace is going more slowly.
01:26:33 [AaronSw]
I really need a server system hooked up to it.
01:29:40 [tav`]
fear the just gods, and think of scylla's fate!
01:29:54 [tav`]
chang'd to a bird, and sent to flit in air
01:30:10 [tav`]
she dearly pays for nisus' injur'd hair!
01:30:46 [AaronSw]
tav, d'ya have a little gift economy site set up where folks can send the plex developers money.
01:30:49 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m906-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
01:31:08 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m906-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
01:31:20 [AaronSw]
Do you have a description of the gift economy on the Web?
01:32:00 [tav`]
not one i've written, no
01:32:19 [AaronSw]
i don't care who wrote it
01:33:13 [AaronSw]
I think I'll add "Plex Developers" to fairtunes
01:33:22 [tav`]
hmz, no
01:33:31 [AaronSw]
to which?
01:33:36 [tav`]
fairtunes
01:34:29 [AaronSw]
--
01:34:30 [AaronSw]
* Are you expecting all internet/Web related apps. to be be based on Plex technologies in the future?
01:34:31 [AaronSw]
Perhaps not all, but we hope for a lot of Web content to be available on the Plex, and encourage app builders who want decentralized storage and query to consider the Plex for their app. We feel that the technology provided by the Plex will be useful to many, and open up a lot of new possibilities for applications.
01:34:31 [AaronSw]
* What is there to stop any other group of people designing a rival Plex? What would happen if they did?
01:34:32 [AaronSw]
There's no technical issue stopping them, but clearly everyone will benefit if the networks are merged into one. It's the same reason no one has set up a "rival" Internet: there's really not a lot of point in cutting yourself off from everyone else.
01:34:33 [AaronSw]
--
01:35:22 [AaronSw]
s/point in/benefit from/
01:35:38 [tav`]
what's that in reply to?
01:36:05 [AaronSw]
sbp's questions
01:37:12 [tav`]
there is no internet. there is only the plex
01:38:19 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw notes not to let tav do PR
01:39:01 [tav`]
well, that 2nd answer is just pussyfooting around
01:39:11 [AaronSw]
What should I say?
01:39:48 [tav`]
if we were talking to the public, then, yes, that, but to answer sbp.... we can assimilate
01:40:07 [AaronSw]
Oh, yeah, i was writing for the public
01:40:18 [AaronSw]
sbp, if someone starts a rival plex, tav will eat them
01:40:26 [tav`]
heh
01:41:53 [AaronSw]
--
01:41:55 [AaronSw]
* How many people are currently working on the Plex project? When can I expect to install some working code?
01:41:55 [AaronSw]
Right now we have a handful of people working on the project. You're certainly welcome to help out. We should have a very rough version out by the beginning of February.
01:41:56 [AaronSw]
* Will data ever be deleted from the Plex?
01:41:57 [AaronSw]
Each Plex node makes decisions about what data to delete based on who entered the data, how much the node trusts them and how much data they are currently storing on the Plex.
01:41:58 [AaronSw]
--
01:46:55 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw buys plexnow.com
01:47:37 [wmf]
PlexNow!(TM)
01:47:59 [AaronSw]
Heh, now I just need to buy goplex and ilovetheplex
01:48:47 [tav`]
hmz
01:48:48 [wmf]
* wmf starts plexlog.editthispage.com
01:48:52 [AaronSw]
heh heh heh
01:49:17 [AaronSw]
odd: Invalid path: /Applications/AppleWorks 6/AppleWorks 6.app/Contents/MacOS/AppleWorks 6
01:49:23 [AaronSw]
from console.log
01:50:24 [AaronSw]
weird. i even get that error when i double click on that file
01:51:27 [AaronSw]
I think i'm going to point users to plexnow and have plexdev be for develoeprs
01:53:35 [tav`]
hmz
01:53:43 [tav`]
ehm
01:53:52 [tav`]
don't do that
01:53:56 [AaronSw]
why not?
01:54:07 [tav`]
plexnames
01:54:18 [AaronSw]
huh?
01:54:55 [tav`]
we are replacing the current structure here
01:55:19 [AaronSw]
i don't follow
01:55:53 [tav`]
it's like steve jobs going and buying a CRT
01:56:17 [AaronSw]
buying a domain name, you mean?
01:56:20 [tav`]
yes
01:56:41 [tav`]
we should get rid of the domain names
01:56:45 [tav`]
not buy more
01:57:13 [AaronSw]
I see your point, but I don't think it's appropriate here. Bootstrapping the Plex is going to be really important, and I think doing a little bit more to make that easier is a good idea.
02:01:23 [wmf]
uh oh, I am out of swap
02:01:39 [AaronSw]
ouch... on OS X?
02:01:43 [wmf]
yeah
02:03:33 [wmf]
it looks OK now; maybe I won't have to reboot
02:05:55 [AaronSw]
That reminds me: I'm getting a new server, and I want to know if I should have a swap partition, and if so, how large?
02:06:58 [wmf]
yes
02:07:23 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m915-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com)))
02:07:34 [wmf]
I'm not sure about the size
02:07:42 [wmf]
what kind of machine are you getting?
02:07:44 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m915-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
02:08:13 [AaronSw]
1 Ghz P3, 1 GB RAM, 40 GB disk
02:09:39 [wmf]
nice
02:10:03 [AaronSw]
yeah, it was surprisingly cheap
02:10:23 [AaronSw]
only $700 or so
02:11:01 [wmf]
Intel probably can't give away 1GHz CPUs fast enough :-)
02:11:12 [AaronSw]
heh, heh
02:12:00 [wmf]
after all, who would settle for a measly 7932fps when you could have 50483fps?
02:12:48 [AaronSw]
Heh, exactly.
02:13:06 [AaronSw]
Especially since it's so important when, while... you know... um...
02:13:13 [AaronSw]
running windows xp
02:38:13 [AaronSw]
<sbp> Surely not? Could I install BeOS and have it running on a WinMe computer?
02:38:19 [AaronSw]
Yes, it's true -- it's as easy as it sounds.
02:38:37 [AaronSw]
It's quite something -- they did a very nice job.
02:39:46 [AaronSw]
ooh, Scot Hacker's sequel: http://www.birdhouse.org/macos/beos_osx/redux.html
02:39:56 [AaronSw]
Reactions to "Tales of a BeOS Refugee"
02:40:55 [wmf]
yeah, he has watered down most of his arguments to be little more than nitpicks
02:42:42 [sbp]
Trouble is, the BeOS download is about 45MB, and I can't find that dang thing. Plus, Palm bought BeOS, so I doubt there's going to be any support - BeOS down the drain?
02:43:01 [sbp]
Nice to see that you're still going through my collection from yesterday :-)
02:43:08 [AaronSw]
How often do you call Microsoft Support?
02:43:18 [sbp]
Hmm... good point
02:43:27 [sbp]
Point me to the download!
02:43:27 [wmf]
I don't think Be provided support even when they were in business
02:44:19 [AaronSw]
Be's site is down?
02:45:23 [AaronSw]
how about http://instructionaltechnology.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$121
02:47:05 [sbp]
Have you tried Be's site?
02:47:13 [AaronSw]
yeah
02:47:15 [sbp]
"To our valued shareholders, partners, and customers"
02:47:33 [AaronSw]
i know
02:48:16 [AaronSw]
however ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/os/BeOS/beos/ looks good
02:49:32 [sbp]
and ftp://www.beforever.com/pub/beforever/freebe/
02:50:01 [sbp]
O.K.
02:50:09 [AaronSw]
--
02:50:11 [AaronSw]
* What happens if someone tries to flood the network - is the Plex resistant to attacks?
02:50:12 [AaronSw]
We attempt to prevent users from flooding the network by making them pay in <a href="http://www.cypherspace.org/~adam/hashcash/">hash cash</a> -- essentially a way form of payment in CPU cycles. The "price" goes up as the server runs out of space.
02:50:12 [AaronSw]
We've worked on a number of solutions like this one to attacks on the Plex. Of course I'm sure that users will come up with more, and we'll do our best to respond to them as they come up.
02:50:13 [AaronSw]
* How much will 'Plex cost me? Seriously now.
02:50:13 [AaronSw]
The Plex is absolutely free. Honest. All you need is a computer, some disk space and an Internet connection. The project is funded by the gift economy -- essentially your contributions. Feel free to <a href="@@">make a donation</a>.
02:50:17 [AaronSw]
--
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sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m973-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com)))
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sbp (~sean@m973-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
02:51:10 [AaronSw]
And that's all the questions. And it's not even tomorrow!
02:51:30 [sbp]
ooh, did I miss it?
02:51:51 [AaronSw]
I guess so.
02:52:38 [sbp]
I like the link to "@@"
02:53:02 [AaronSw]
:-)
03:02:46 [AaronSw]
Ooh, I didn't know about Command-Option clicking the Doc.
03:02:48 [AaronSw]
err Dock
03:03:14 [wmf]
cool
03:04:38 [AaronSw]
sbp, i've had that FS idea for a long time... i wonder how it'd be in real life
03:04:50 [sbp]
FS idea?
03:05:10 [AaronSw]
filesystem thingy
03:05:25 [sbp]
ah, right. Yeah, it would be neat to implement it
03:05:31 [wmf]
what idea?
03:05:42 [AaronSw]
having a filesystem be a big RDF database
03:05:49 [wmf]
ah
03:06:10 [AaronSw]
you'd get all the power of Be metadata and more!
03:06:17 [AaronSw]
plus built-in CVS archives
03:06:30 [sbp]
and Plex compatability
03:06:39 [sbp]
sorry, *ultimate* Plex compatability
03:06:48 [AaronSw]
Yeah: Plex Everywhere.
03:07:20 [sbp]
I'm not sure how the CVS would work - you might want to thread the resources. Oh, TimBL published that CVS flow schema, somewhere. doc.n3
03:08:41 [AaronSw]
Ah, the LISP thing came from How To Become A Hacker.
03:09:21 [AaronSw]
I hear SICP is good for that.
03:09:36 [AaronSw]
wmf, did you do SICP at UT-Austin?
03:10:34 [wmf]
nope, we used Haskell
03:10:52 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw wrinkles nose
03:10:53 [AaronSw]
;-)
03:11:01 [wmf]
Haskell is OK
03:11:18 [AaronSw]
I hear it's pretty cool.
03:11:24 [AaronSw]
OmniWeb: "To pay, or not to pay? That is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous monopolies, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them?"
03:11:33 [AaronSw]
I like how you can copy-and-paste from dialog boxes.
03:11:41 [wmf]
yeah, that's a funny one
03:12:15 [wmf]
I'm not going to pay for OmniWeb until it can do CSS properly
03:12:30 [AaronSw]
i dunno - i might just not buy omniweb so i can keep reading he funny sayings. ;-)
03:12:41 [AaronSw]
Yeah, no CSS is a killer.
03:12:43 [wmf]
I think I've seen them all already
03:12:54 [AaronSw]
Don't they add more with new versions?
03:13:01 [wmf]
maybe
03:13:42 [sbp]
No CSS? I laugh at it
03:14:10 [AaronSw]
Heh, well it's really bare-bones CSS.
03:14:41 [wmf]
they're busy adding javascript bug-compatibility, but they can't support CSS fully :-(
03:14:53 [sbp]
ugh, that's terrible
03:14:56 [AaronSw]
Well they stole the JS from someone else.
03:15:00 [sbp]
and now they're asking you to pay for it?
03:15:05 [sbp]
run, run away!
03:15:21 [sbp]
run, don't walk/hop/skip
03:15:32 [wmf]
using mozilla's js engine is probably a good idea, but still
03:15:52 [sbp]
if they can steal a JS engine, they can surely steal a CSS rendering engine?
03:18:52 [AaronSw]
deltab asks if Amaya has http auth logout
03:19:00 [AaronSw]
i didn't know such a thing existed. does links support it?
03:19:21 [AaronSw]
how can you logout of a state less protocol?
03:19:30 [sbp]
heh: """stop wondering about where you want to go today, and get ready to Be.""" - http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=269
03:19:42 [sbp]
auth logout? I presume you mean just wiping the password cache
03:21:12 [sbp]
heh, BeOS is quite extensible too: """The 64-bit journal file system enables you to plug a hard disk that's as large 68 million terabytes.""" - http://web.archive.org/web/20011223062345/www.review-zone.com/software/reviews/winme_vs_beos/page8.shtml
03:21:54 [AaronSw]
Hmm, why isn't the Radio UserLand small icon as pretty as the big dock one
03:23:36 [AaronSw]
Radio: "Your new website's URL is http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/."
03:24:38 [AaronSw]
I'm glad UserLand finally learned about primary keys.
03:25:09 [wmf]
I find it ugly
03:25:30 [AaronSw]
The URLs are ugly, but the functionality is not.
03:26:07 [AaronSw]
I guess they needed emails to be the primary key because of the object database... that sorta makes sense.
03:27:23 [AaronSw]
Heh, good way to put stuff at the top of the UserLand charts: make it a default subscription.
03:27:30 [wmf]
indeed
03:27:44 [wmf]
gee, look how many people read scripting news!
03:28:06 [AaronSw]
197 -- wowie!
03:28:41 [AaronSw]
only 55 HTP readers.
03:29:04 [sbp]
ooh, you can pause file moves in BeOS
03:29:06 [AaronSw]
You should complain: perhaps your Scripting News Award can be useful here.
03:29:57 [AaronSw]
Radio really slwos down your machine, doesn't it...
03:30:08 [wmf]
not that I've noticed
03:31:06 [AaronSw]
hmm.. maybe it's justi'm hitting loads of 3.1 with it taking up about 30%
03:34:57 [sbp]
Hmm... the problem with BeOS is that it probably won't support my internal modem
03:35:44 [sbp]
multiple desktops? Ooh
03:36:26 [AaronSw]
Yeah, that's something I wish OS X had.
03:36:33 [AaronSw]
I also really want multiple input devices.
03:36:43 [wmf]
why?
03:36:49 [AaronSw]
to which?
03:36:57 [wmf]
multiple input devices
03:37:22 [AaronSw]
it's for when the kids insist on using the machine to check something on the web
03:37:35 [AaronSw]
i want to keep doing my work, and let them do theirs on the other monitor
03:37:40 [wmf]
so you want multiconsole
03:37:58 [wmf]
I don't know why nobody does that
03:38:20 [AaronSw]
I guess multiconsole would work
03:38:28 [AaronSw]
how would one do it?
03:39:00 [wmf]
run multiple window servers
03:39:18 [AaronSw]
is that possible on OS X?
03:39:22 [wmf]
no
03:43:07 [AaronSw]
ugh: all radio instances are set by default to hit at the top of the hour.
03:43:11 [AaronSw]
there goes my server.
03:43:30 [wmf]
yeah, it should be random
03:43:40 [wmf]
maybe you can suggest it to userland?
03:44:00 [AaronSw]
yeah, i think i'll do that.
03:44:33 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw resists the temptation to ask for rss 1.0 support <grin class="evil" />
03:44:44 [wmf]
ahem
03:46:47 [sbp]
do it!
03:49:12 [AaronSw]
wacky: I keep getting these big black splotches appear when i compose email in Entourage.
03:49:32 [sbp]
Ugh, aren't download status timers meant to go down rather than up? This one just keeps consistently rising, at about the same speed as it should be falling
03:49:42 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh!
03:49:59 [AaronSw]
like the time necessary or the percent downloaded?
03:50:16 [sbp]
time remaining
03:50:36 [sbp]
it started out at two-hours and bit, it's now over three
03:50:38 [wmf]
the download twilight zone
03:50:38 [AaronSw]
I guess your speed must be dropping then.
03:50:44 [sbp]
yeah
03:51:39 [sbp]
there's no way I'm going to get this before m connection folds. I should have used some sort of erotic download application that saves the chunk downloaded so far. As it is, IE does that *some* of the time, but not always
03:52:29 [wmf]
AaronSw: do you ever have the problem where the front window is not the same as the focused window under OS X?
03:52:38 [AaronSw]
yep, all the tiem
03:52:40 [AaronSw]
err time
03:52:57 [wmf]
ok, at least I'm not the only one
03:53:01 [AaronSw]
sbp, why is that so erotic?
03:53:02 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw ducks
03:53:12 [sbp]
erotic?
03:53:20 [AaronSw]
"some sort of erotic download application"
03:53:26 [sbp]
isn't that patently obvious?
03:53:51 [AaronSw]
umm, no
03:54:19 [AaronSw]
You should use GetRight or something.
03:54:26 [sbp]
I dunno. I was going to type "exotic", but went for the "r" instead. Almost as I typed it, I decided that it would be funnier to leave it in. I could have given it a little [sic], but it would have ruined the joke
03:55:12 [sbp]
Months of talking to Morbus is starting to affect me
03:55:17 [wmf]
sbp is just looking for some hot download action
03:55:28 [sbp]
yeah, baby!
03:57:08 [AaronSw]
I love this line:
03:57:13 [AaronSw]
Dave Winer: "Man. It was like a drunken party with crazy girls and lots of booze and hard drugs."
03:57:36 [AaronSw]
Radio UserLand: Just Like Legalized Drugs
03:57:56 [sbp]
What was that Winer &quot; in reference to?
03:58:09 [AaronSw]
The Radio UserLand rollout last night.
03:58:20 [AaronSw]
http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/01/12#l8939915193185aa2f1f21c07a355a3bc
03:58:45 [sbp]
Argh, I can't follow links - you should know that! I'm downloading an OS
03:59:02 [AaronSw]
Heh.
03:59:21 [AaronSw]
Here it is in ASCII:
03:59:24 [AaronSw]
"""
03:59:26 [AaronSw]
Wow. What was that. Some kind of truck drove through our little world last night. You should have seen Weblogs.Com. Man. It was like a drunken party with crazy girls and lots of booze and hard drugs. A new high-water mark -- on a Friday night! I've never had a product ship like this. What a trip. I hope it never returns to normal. We turned a corner. A big one. We spent a lot of long days and nights preparing for it. There were times when I thought we wo
03:59:27 [AaronSw]
al. 80 percent of the people get to first-post in five minutes or less. Yes, of course there were problems, and we still have a lot more we want to do with this software, there are lots of tools and tutorials to write, lots more bugs to fix. It's a big piece of software, almost fourteen years of code under the browser interface. Yes it mostly works. Inch by inch. Thank you Murphy. I'm not worthy I'm not worthy. 
03:59:32 [AaronSw]
As I revie
03:59:32 [AaronSw]
"""
03:59:59 [sbp]
Who's this Murphy guy that everyone keeps talking about?
04:00:09 [sbp]
* sbp did follow the link, BTW
04:00:35 [AaronSw]
Murphy is the guy that makes everything go wrong for Dave.
04:00:37 [sbp]
who stole DanC, and what have they done with him?
04:00:40 [sbp]
<DanC> ok, this is wicked cool. http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/newimac_intro_320.html
04:01:04 [sbp]
and yes, I know that stealing humans is called kidnapping
04:06:06 [sbp]
I wonder if Murphy's Law ever goes wrong?
04:06:25 [AaronSw]
Yeah, whenever something that can go wrong goes right.
04:06:52 [AaronSw]
that way it's always right
04:06:58 [sbp]
like Murphy's Law itself, excluding that exception
04:07:30 [sbp]
The answer I was looking for: "Mwahahaha!"
04:08:17 [AaronSw]
Cool! There's an MIT Assassins Guild.
04:08:28 [sbp]
spew text
04:10:20 [sbp]
Um... hello?
04:10:25 [AaronSw]
eh?
04:10:42 [sbp]
could you at least give us... oh nuts, I'll do it myself
04:10:48 [AaronSw]
Wow, Radio was really slowing down my system. I quit it and everything sped up again.
04:10:49 [sbp]
.google "MIT Assassins Guild"
04:10:50 [xena]
"MIT Assassins Guild": http://www.mit.edu/activities/assassin
04:10:57 [sbp]
.http://www.mit.edu/activities/assassin
04:10:59 [xena]
MIT Assassins' Guild Home Page Everything You've Ever Wanted To Know About the Assassins' Guild (but were afraid to ask for fear of being shot with a disc gun) What Do We Do? The MIT Assassins' Guild runs a number of real-time real-space role playing games each year. We also run Patrol, a more action-packed game, every week. For more information, you can check out our blurb, or read about some
04:10:59 [xena]
past games. When Do We Do It? Patrol runs every Saturday night from 8 to 11 in Building 36. The longer games run whenever there are games written and people to play them -- usually one or two per semester and one over IAP. (For more info, look at the list of scheduled games.) Who's In Charge Here? The officers of the Assassins' guild are known collectively as the High Council. Patrol is run by
04:11:01 [xena]
.. a very large amount of text.
04:11:50 [sbp]
Ah, information at one's fingertips
04:13:18 [sbp]
why is it that xena can spew text all over the channel's floor, but when spankybot did it, it got banned?
04:13:45 [AaronSw]
xena stops after two things.
04:14:03 [AaronSw]
and no one is supposed to know about that feature.
04:14:04 [sbp]
so did spankybot - it judged it by character length
04:14:19 [AaronSw]
spankybot was just asking for it: look at its nick!
04:14:28 [sbp]
Heh, well I picked it up from someone^H^H^Hwhere
04:14:37 [sbp]
ah, but it had a built in spank feature
04:14:42 [sbp]
you'd do:-
04:14:45 [sbp]
* sbp spanks spankybot
04:14:51 [sbp]
and spankybot would go
04:14:57 [sbp]
<spankybot> ow!
04:15:26 [AaronSw]
and then it would like knock into xena and xena would trigger it to find a uri and then it would chump it...
04:15:54 [sbp]
Huh? Give me a full transcript of that scenario
04:16:42 [AaronSw]
<spankybot> .time
04:16:43 [AaronSw]
<xena> 2001-10-02 11:33 PM
04:16:43 [AaronSw]
<spankybot> 11:33 looks like a URI
04:16:43 [AaronSw]
<chumpster> A: 11:33 from spankybot
04:17:03 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh!
04:17:27 [sbp]
what was that funny thing that it did?
04:17:38 [sbp]
.google spankybot
04:17:39 [xena]
spankybot: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-11-01.html
04:18:53 [sbp]
heh:-
04:18:56 [sbp]
[[[
04:18:56 [sbp]
04:11:15 <spankybot> .time UTC
04:18:56 [sbp]
04:11:15 <xena> Nov. 1, 2001 4:12 am Universal
04:18:56 [sbp]
04:11:16 <spankybot> is Nov. 1, 2001 4:12 a URI?
04:18:56 [sbp]
04:11:24 <AaronSw> aaah!
04:18:56 [sbp]
04:11:27 <Morbus> hehe
04:18:58 [sbp]
04:11:28 <AaronSw> kill it!
04:19:00 [sbp]
04:11:31 <sbp> lol!
04:19:02 [sbp]
]]]
04:19:44 [AaronSw]
Tonight's flick: Regular Expressions From Hell!
04:21:41 [sbp]
still having problems?
04:21:56 [AaronSw]
with what?
04:22:13 [sbp]
Small bavarian goat hearding tools
04:22:16 [sbp]
RegExps!
04:22:25 [AaronSw]
When was I using regexps?
04:22:46 [AaronSw]
I was making fun of whatever stupid regexp thought "Nov. 1, 2001 4:12" might be a URI.
04:22:47 [sbp]
s/hearding/herding/
04:23:01 [sbp]
oh, right. Yeah, that was pretty funny
04:24:14 [sbp]
it was probably r'([^:]+:[^ ]+)' or somesuch
04:24:47 [AaronSw]
more like r':'
04:24:58 [AaronSw]
;-)
04:29:36 [BenSw]
BenSw is now known as BenSw|away
04:30:39 [sbp]
Aaron: MacOS vs. BeOS
04:31:02 [AaronSw]
Tough decision...
04:31:41 [AaronSw]
I might go with BeOS if it was being actively developed.
04:32:27 [sbp]
If you were stranded on a computer, and you could have only 3 programs, what would they be? Hmm... no, too easy to cheat
04:33:44 [sbp]
you'd only need cURL :-)
04:33:52 [sbp]
Then again, that would assume that all of the programs that cURL relies upon are there. You need programs to run an OS...
04:34:19 [AaronSw]
eh, you only need telnet
04:34:33 [sbp]
yeah, or that
04:34:48 [sbp]
Mmmkay, three favourite programs or packages, then
04:36:57 [AaronSw]
E::
04:36:57 [chumpster]
http://plexdev.org/
04:36:58 [chumpster]
Plex
04:36:59 [chumpster]
(sbp) """The Plex is a decentralized network for sharing data.""" So, that means "P2P app."
04:37:00 [chumpster]
(sbp) """The Plex provides a simple to use database system for your applications. Plex-based applications can easily be used anonymously, securely, quickly, and easily. By providing a shared storage system the Plex can integrate protocols like email, newsgroups and the Web into a single system."""
04:37:10 [AaronSw]
E::Check out the new [Plex FAQ|http://plexdev.org/faq] for more info.
04:37:15 [chumpster]
commented item E
04:38:27 [AaronSw]
whats the attribute on <acronym>? title?
04:38:42 [AaronSw]
.dtrt html:acronym
04:38:45 [xena]
html:acronym: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/text.html#edef-ACRONYM
04:39:14 [AaronSw]
guess so
04:39:22 [sbp]
yep
04:39:49 [deltab]
expression itself, as it would normally appear in running text. The title
04:39:49 [deltab]
attribute of these elements may be used to provide the full or expanded
04:39:49 [deltab]
form of the expression.
04:40:04 [sbp]
* sbp checks out the new http://plexdev.org/faq for more info.
04:41:08 [sbp]
s/upon it being install/upon it being installed/
04:41:50 [sbp]
why is "What is there to stop any other group of people designing a rival Plex? What would happen if they did?" unanswered?
04:42:25 [AaronSw]
hmm
04:43:43 [AaronSw]
oops -- broken tag
04:44:11 [AaronSw]
fixed
04:44:29 [AaronSw]
Feel free to create a nice little TOC for my FAQ, sbp.
04:46:15 [AaronSw]
tav` - can you _please_ fix that doctype thing?
04:47:27 [deltab]
I think the cookies are broken too
04:47:47 [AaronSw]
wow, nice! dave took my request to the team
04:48:04 [AaronSw]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-dev/message/4033
04:49:36 [sbp]
but aren't you 15 now?
04:49:51 [AaronSw]
Shhh!
04:50:32 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m972-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
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sbp (~sean@m972-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
04:51:12 [sbp]
Phew, it resumed the download
04:51:15 [sbp]
<sbp> but aren't you 15 now?
04:51:26 [AaronSw]
Shhh!
04:51:31 [sbp]
and he can't spell your name, either. Oh well
04:51:43 [wmf]
it's already implemented: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-userland/message/11014
04:51:48 [sbp]
Heh, heh. The little whiz-kid is growing up. You'll be an adult soon! You poor sucker
04:52:05 [AaronSw]
Awesome!
04:52:17 [AaronSw]
(to implementing it)
04:53:06 [sbp]
* sbp guessed
04:53:22 [sbp]
that is neat - good turn-around time
04:55:26 [wmf]
damn, I got an interstitial on egroups!
04:56:08 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I get those a lot.
04:56:18 [sbp]
logster, grep damn.*server
04:56:28 [logster]
I'm logging. I found 5 answers for 'damn.*server' (showing 0...4)
04:56:29 [logster]
0) 2002-01-13 04:56:18 <sbp> logster, grep damn.*server
04:56:30 [logster]
1) 2002-01-06 23:04:42 <sbp> Aargh, the logs are fucked again. Aaron, sort your damn server out!
04:56:31 [logster]
2) 2001-10-12 03:38:58 <Morbus> can't see my own damn webserver
04:56:32 [logster]
3) 2001-09-21 21:48:02 <tav> so it can't be a damn server split
04:56:33 [logster]
4) 2001-09-21 04:52:20 <BadMan> tired of these damn IIS nimda infected servers hitting my apache
04:57:14 [sbp]
was the top of the hour bug responsible for that?
04:57:32 [AaronSw]
yeah, sure looks like it
04:57:36 [sbp]
Hmm... you should add "PlexPublishing" to http://plexdev.org/applications
04:57:58 [sbp]
So it was Winer's fault! I knew it all along
04:58:43 [AaronSw]
It seems just about every aggregator does it on the hour.
04:59:01 [wmf]
so you just need to hunt down every one of them :-)
04:59:28 [AaronSw]
too bad this update doesn't work retroactively
04:59:33 [sbp]
Let's blame Morbus
05:00:53 [AaronSw]
Yeah, Morbus needs to add this feature.
05:01:10 [sbp]
Garfle, Plex shows that the best applications are only going to come when there is a lot of data available to be processed, and a lot of rules languages etc. for doing it
05:01:28 [AaronSw]
heh: "$40...is anybody else amazed at this? Is it this cheap so we won't gripe about little things?"
05:01:28 [AaronSw]
No, that's called "open source". ;-)
05:01:47 [sbp]
heh, heh
05:01:52 [sbp]
cite?
05:02:04 [AaronSw]
- http://radio.weblogs.com/0100156/2002/01/11.html#a4
05:03:29 [AaronSw]
this is an interesting bug:
05:03:30 [AaronSw]
.http://1705.net./
05:03:32 [xena]
easyDNS: We can't find 1705.net.. You can try going to net. instead. For more information on easyDNS, contact us at mailto: or visit our website at www.easydns.com
05:03:48 [sbp]
Hmm... I wonder what BeOS' built-in browser is going to be like?
05:03:59 [sbp]
heh, cool
05:04:03 [AaronSw]
few people seem to know about the root .
05:04:57 [AaronSw]
I sense a song: "For that, Radio 8.0 is my secret weapon! [...] Radio 8.0 gives me that power -- right on my desktop, every hour!"
05:05:01 [AaronSw]
- http://radio.weblogs.com/0001009/stories/2002/01/09/radio80ItsMySecretWeapon.html
05:06:45 [sbp]
you really should add more junk to the Plex applications page, A
05:07:57 [sbp]
give people a decent overview to what the Plex can do - do for them, mainly. Stuff like the SpamPlex app. - that's a good examples
05:08:03 [sbp]
s/exmaples/example/
05:09:09 [AaronSw]
heh!: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100012/stories/2002/01/11/childrenShouldNotHaveToys.html
05:09:43 [sbp]
oh, I think somebody showed me that picture
05:10:41 [sbp]
nope, it was different
05:10:44 [sbp]
* sbp searches
05:11:44 [AaronSw]
Ooh, UserLand is using DigitalRiver for purchases.
05:13:47 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
05:14:37 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m972-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
05:17:10 [sbp]
damn, my IRC logs are corrupt, my history is useless
05:17:22 [sbp]
working on computers is a battle sometimes
05:17:28 [sbp]
can't wait for BeOS
05:17:44 [sbp]
Although WinMe does work pretty well
05:17:53 [sbp]
And then, of course, there's WinXP
05:18:07 [sbp]
That was quite funny
05:18:38 [AaronSw]
what's the full simpsons "nothing is what it seems" quote?
05:19:12 [AaronSw]
maybe it's not from the simpsons
05:19:28 [sbp]
Homer: Where people throw ducks at balloons, and nothing's the way that it seems
05:19:36 [AaronSw]
Aha.
05:28:15 [AaronSw]
Seems the Radio servers are a bit overwhelmed: "Can't upstream because "Can't read stream because the TCP connection was closed unexpectedly."
05:32:25 [sbp]
A, could you partition the grep function on logster by year?
05:32:51 [AaronSw]
What do I look like, a Perl programmer?
05:33:00 [sbp]
I apologize
05:33:54 [AaronSw]
Ugh, the Weblog didn't roll over again.
05:35:47 [sbp]
good
05:35:56 [sbp]
ah, you were wrong, you were wrong!
05:35:57 [sbp]
[[[
05:35:59 [sbp]
01:31:28 <Morbus> Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
05:35:59 [sbp]
01:32:16 <AaronSw> he'll come back. they always come back
05:36:03 [sbp]
]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-21.txt
05:36:13 [AaronSw]
give it time
05:36:52 [sbp]
Hmm... I was thinking about measuring the period by the clock rather than the calendar
05:37:42 [AaronSw]
oh
05:38:24 [AaronSw]
hmm, we didn't publish on 12-25, 12-26, or 12-37 of 2001. what happened there, do you think?
05:38:37 [sbp]
12-37? I should think not
05:39:06 [AaronSw]
12-27 rather
05:39:30 [sbp]
You flew to England, I celebrated Christmas
05:40:44 [AaronSw]
hmm, good point
05:41:13 [sbp]
plus, you've always blogged a lot more than I have
05:41:59 [AaronSw]
well i blogged all those days, it just didn't roll over.
05:42:12 [sbp]
Oh... weird
05:43:48 [AaronSw]
also 11-21
05:43:52 [AaronSw]
not such a bad track record
05:44:19 [sbp]
we deserve that GAL award
05:44:29 [AaronSw]
GAL?
05:44:36 [sbp]
.acronym GAL
05:44:38 [xena]
GAL: Gallon, Galatians, Galena, AK, USA (Airport Code), Gallium Arsenide Laser, Gas Analysis Laboratory, Gate Array Logic, Generic Array Logic, George A. Lincoln (WWII General), Get A Life, Gimbal Angle Loss, Global Address List (Microsoft Exchange), Gradient Adaptive Lattice, Guardian ad Litem, Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory, Guinea Airways, Ltd.
05:44:55 [AaronSw]
Get A Life?
05:45:02 [sbp]
or Gay And Lesbian, yeah
05:45:16 [sbp]
something like that
05:45:17 [AaronSw]
That'd be GLTB or is it GLBT?
05:45:36 [sbp]
I couldn't remember, so I just made one up :-)
05:45:48 [sbp]
I hope we win that. We should have chumped more items
05:46:49 [sbp]
ah, here's that picture: http://www.hyperorg.com/gifs/magicmarker.jpg
05:47:23 [AaronSw]
lol!
05:48:20 [sbp]
Who needs a coloring book?
05:49:22 [sbp]
BeOS is 88% done...
05:51:16 [AaronSw]
neat: http://www.hyperorg.com/misc/genalpha.html
05:53:41 [AaronSw]
Now there's a question: "Is truth flat or bumpy?" - Deviant Logic
05:53:53 [sbp]
Hmm...
05:54:07 [AaronSw]
.time
05:54:07 [xena]
2002/01/13 05:55:45.7808 Universal
05:54:19 [AaronSw]
I better be going to sleep...
05:55:15 [sbp]
heh, heh
05:55:27 [sbp]
.time somewhere in the Mid-West
05:55:28 [xena]
error: Site Error occurred: KeyError
05:55:36 [AaronSw]
cst
05:55:36 [sbp]
.time CST
05:55:37 [xena]
Jan. 12, 2002 11:57 pm US/Central
05:56:03 [AaronSw]
Hmm: *** YourBot (~youremail@89.137.252.64.snet.net) has joined the channel
05:56:03 [AaronSw]
- #rdfig
05:56:13 [sbp]
that's quite scary really - you're six hours behind, but I go to bed later. Then again, it is for BeOS :-)
05:56:18 [sbp]
yeah, I noticed that...
05:57:02 [sbp]
the Weblog automatically rolls over on weekends, BTW
05:57:30 [AaronSw]
what do you mean by that?
05:58:16 [sbp]
it keeps track of Sat's events, and displays them on Sun
05:58:20 [sbp]
and possibly Mon
05:58:28 [AaronSw]
I think it's a bug.
05:58:33 [sbp]
I've noticed the bahaviour on the #rdfig Weblog for quite some time
05:58:47 [sbp]
no, I think it's a feature - because people chump less at weekends, supposedly
05:58:47 [AaronSw]
I don't think it's specifically weekends.
05:59:06 [AaronSw]
I looked in the code and I didn't see it.
05:59:08 [sbp]
who on #rdfig has a snet address?
05:59:35 [AaronSw]
It seems to happen if you comment on something from yesterday after midnight.
05:59:38 [sbp]
must be a bug, then
05:59:44 [sbp]
ah
05:59:46 [AaronSw]
before chumping something new or changing the topic
05:59:59 [sbp]
it's quite useful though, IMO
06:00:05 [AaronSw]
Yeah, it's cool.
06:00:19 [AaronSw]
Heh: quacken
06:00:27 [sbp]
heh, yeah
06:02:07 [sbp]
how many hits is the Weblog getting lately?
06:02:16 [AaronSw]
I wonder why my client doesn't do WALLOPS
06:02:46 [sbp]
"/mose AaronSw +w" doesn't work?
06:02:59 [AaronSw]
it works, but i never get any messages.
06:03:07 [sbp]
Same here
06:04:08 [sbp]
ooh, could you put site-statistics on the Web?
06:04:18 [AaronSw]
when spam is sent with subjects like "Free software" you know you're in trouble
06:04:32 [sbp]
yeah...
06:05:32 [AaronSw]
weblog got 27 hits today
06:06:02 [AaronSw]
674 since the 9th.
06:06:54 [sbp]
Hmm... so-so
06:07:11 [sbp]
ooh! about a minute to go on BeOS
06:07:56 [AaronSw]
http://www.leatheregg.com/bloggercode/
06:08:03 [sbp]
done!
06:08:05 [AaronSw]
is #1 on daypop
06:08:47 [sbp]
cool, you gotta generate that for #swhack!
06:08:54 [sbp]
Meanwhile, I have an OS to install
06:08:56 [sbp]
Gotta run
06:08:59 [AaronSw]
c'ya!
06:09:00 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
06:09:13 [AaronSw]
I wonder if there's IRC for BeOS.
06:11:37 [AaronSw]
Heh: "Are you kidding? The last thing I need is to get sexually involved with one of these neurotic pinheads. [x--]"
06:14:20 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw thinks of replying to http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6857 with "Sounds like your credit card number is invalid. Guess you'll need to hack another e-commerce site now."
06:15:48 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m92-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
06:15:48 [AaronSw]
Heh, Bernstein called it the iLamp too. http://markBernstein.org/Jan0201.html#note_3509
06:16:11 [sbp]
Wow, I've come across MB sized apps that were more difficult to install than BeOS
06:16:23 [AaronSw]
Heh, Bernstein called it the iLamp too. http://markBernstein.org/Jan0201.html#note_3509
06:16:39 [AaronSw]
Wouldn't it make sense for MB sized apps to be easy?
06:16:50 [sbp]
1MB
06:16:58 [AaronSw]
oh, i misparsed
06:17:08 [sbp]
:-)
06:17:12 [AaronSw]
So are you in BeOS now?
06:17:21 [sbp]
nope, I'm just about to run it...
06:17:30 [sbp]
I'll try to get an IRC client going :-)
06:17:34 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Client Quit)
06:20:27 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw is away: sleep
06:24:12 [sbp]
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06:24:32 [sbp]
aaaaaaargh!
06:24:42 [sbp]
The damn thing won't run under WinMe - it says it needs a "proper version of DOS"
06:24:53 [sbp]
so I'm creating a boot disk, and hopefully I can run it off of that
06:27:11 [sbp]
.google BeOS WinMe
06:27:13 [xena]
BeOS WinMe: /url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.beosonline.de/forum/beos5/233.html&e=921
06:27:18 [sbp]
http://www.beosonline.de/forum/beos5/233.html
06:27:49 [sbp]
ooh: Außer Du aktivierst den DOS-Modus in WinMe.
06:27:58 [sbp]
great! http://www.geocities.com/mfd4life_2000/
07:01:50 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
07:11:53 [wmf]
wmf has quit ("zzz")
07:12:22 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m1009-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
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07:13:15 [sbp]
Well, it worked, but only just - and not that well
07:13:18 [sbp]
It too a lot of configuring and hacking to get it to run, and when it did the monitor settings were badly off
07:13:33 [sbp]
after a while I managed to get basic stuff working, but no Internet connection
07:13:44 [sbp]
as I had predicted, it wouldn't recognize my internal modem
07:13:56 [sbp]
strangely, WinXP suffered the same affliction :-)
07:14:15 [sbp]
So it was a bit disappointing, but there's plenty more to play around with
07:14:18 [sbp]
Gotta run
07:14:19 [sbp]
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11:51:53 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
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14:47:23 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw wakes up
14:52:56 [AaronSw]
Wow, Ken Bereskin has a Radio blog: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100676/
15:19:12 [AaronSw]
Nice work: http://www.iol.ie/~alank/python/httpcomp.html
15:20:05 [AaronSw]
It'd be cool if Googlebot followed links from Usenet archives.
15:47:18 [AaronSw]
Tim Peters: "let the community decide which vision rocks loudest (hey, mixing 3 metaphors in 3 words is a special talent <wink>)."
16:06:32 [AaronSw]
http://plexdev.org/ seems to work now
17:21:57 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m868-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
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kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack
17:25:37 [kmacleod]
kmacleod has left #swhack
17:57:02 [AaronSw]
hello
18:17:59 [sbp]
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19:07:12 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw is away: lunch
19:26:43 [sbp]
Sandro's gone all databaseish on us :-)
19:32:26 [sbp]
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20:08:59 [AaronSw]
databases are cool
20:09:09 [AaronSw]
i think i'm getting hooked on Radio UserLand.
20:10:56 [AaronSw]
Brent Simmons: "Sometimes I think to myself: I¹m a mutant; I was born without a tail."
20:12:22 [AaronSw]
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20:12:24 [AaronSw]
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21:10:01 [AaronSw]
interesting: http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg011301.htm
22:34:11 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> i was thinking of making an rss feed that returned checksums for urls
22:34:11 [AaronSw]
[9 minutes later]
22:34:11 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> done: http://blogspace.com/rss/feeds/hash?name=David%20McCusker's%20Weblog&url=http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/new.htm
22:43:39 [tav`]
putty website - great example of the google effect
22:44:05 [deltab]
I remember when I had to enter "anakin putty"
22:44:17 [tav`]
i type putty, and click the goto the best result on my toolbar
22:45:16 [tav`]
plexnames makes best use of what the google effect truly is...
22:47:07 [tav`]
shouldn't that url be blogged
22:47:08 [tav`]
?
22:47:13 [tav`]
@ http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg011301.htm
22:47:21 [chumpster]
O: `Google effect' reduces need for many domains (1/12/2002) from tav`
22:48:59 [AaronSw]
putty?
22:49:13 [AaronSw]
A Free Win32 Telnet/SSH Client
22:49:13 [AaronSw]
?
22:49:51 [tav`]
.google putty
22:49:52 [xena]
putty: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty
22:50:19 [tav`]
i also used to use google on hack the planet back when wes started
22:51:41 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I need to add "I'm Feeling Lucky" support to my URL-line.
22:51:52 [AaronSw]
i use that for mccusker weblog
22:52:54 [AaronSw]
aargh, this is really annoying: Entourage won't let me type HTP -- it autocorrects to HTTP.
22:53:01 [tav`]
heh
22:54:30 [tav`]
what browser do you use?
22:54:37 [AaronSw]
IE5/mac
22:55:12 [tav`]
* tav` slaps forehead
22:55:22 [AaronSw]
heh, why?
22:55:25 [tav`]
i can tell you how to do it in moz, IE/win, galeon
22:55:57 [AaronSw]
add i'm feeling lucky? i already know how to do it.
22:56:04 [tav`]
ah
22:56:18 [AaronSw]
i just never got around to it
22:56:21 [tav`]
how do you do it on the mac?
22:56:59 [AaronSw]
there's a config file you edit. then you can just type "? query" and it hands it off to the url of your choice
22:57:08 [tav`]
!
22:57:10 [tav`]
fuckers
22:57:25 [AaronSw]
heh
22:57:44 [AaronSw]
so i'm going to make a little DTRT-like thing that takes care of all my favorite urls
22:57:47 [tav`]
the ms mac team must be fucking cool
22:58:06 [tav`]
entourage, configurable IE
22:58:07 [AaronSw]
they are so awesome.
22:58:16 [AaronSw]
they do look a bit Borgish in person, tho
22:58:32 [tav`]
heh
22:58:42 [AaronSw]
their secret: they all work in CA. the RDF protects them from evil redmond waves.
22:58:48 [tav`]
ah
22:59:26 [tav`]
oh, i need you to do me a favour
22:59:35 [AaronSw]
hmm, maybe they're not in CA...
22:59:40 [tav`]
output the whole swhack archive onto one page
22:59:47 [tav`]
the weblog...
22:59:55 [AaronSw]
ok... in HTML?
23:00:08 [tav`]
either
23:00:19 [AaronSw]
ok, i can give it to you in xml pretty easily.
23:00:29 [AaronSw]
does it need to be live?
23:00:32 [tav`]
sure
23:00:39 [tav`]
no
23:00:52 [tav`]
only until today, and perhaps sometime later this week
23:01:03 [AaronSw]
what's it for?
23:01:04 [tav`]
you reg with weblogs.com right?
23:01:08 [AaronSw]
yeah
23:01:21 [tav`]
it's for www
23:01:27 [tav`]
worldwidewiki
23:01:31 [AaronSw]
aha
23:02:57 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw waits for the stampeding rss herd to pass
23:03:01 [AaronSw]
OK: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/webloghistory.xml
23:07:11 [tav`]
cheers
23:15:24 [AaronSw]
@ http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/
23:15:29 [chumpster]
P: Aaron Swartz: Secret Agent from AaronSw
23:16:07 [AaronSw]
P::Yeah, yeah, [Radio|http://radio.userland.com/] came out. But you *really* want to see is my new Radio Weblog, right?
23:16:10 [chumpster]
commented item P
23:17:11 [AaronSw]
P::Apologies to [Morbus and his AmphetaDesk|http://disobey.com/amphetadesk/], but Radio is seriously tempting. I might even buy it!
23:17:14 [chumpster]
commented item P
23:31:42 [tav`]
!
23:31:43 [tav`]
crazy
23:32:49 [AaronSw]
it'd be cool if it ran on linux -- then it might make a good zope replacement
23:44:40 [tav`]
* tav` ignores the troll
23:47:20 [tansaku]
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23:58:51 [AaronSw]
heh, ZopeReplacement could become the generic term for application server... or soemthing