IRC log of swhack on 2001-12-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:58 [AaronSw-UK]
Nice: "In Zope 3, objects will still take advantage of acquisition, but in much more explicit ways."
00:06:23 [hazmat]
hopefully acquisition can be made optional.... writing large python systems in zope is made much harder by acquisition imo.
00:06:34 [AaronSw-UK]
Yeah.
00:06:45 [AaronSw-UK]
Hmm, I'm not sure about all this offloading of metadata into XML files.
00:08:28 [hazmat]
i didn't like it at first, smells like j2ee :), but its an extensible configurable file format. in the end i think its probably a win, although a non xml format based on something simple like ConfigParser from the stdlib might be a nice alternative for basic config.
00:09:55 [hazmat]
as much of z3 is fluid, raising a voice/throwing a stone can have signifigant impact. if you're interested the list is at http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-dev
00:10:20 [AaronSw-UK]
well it's not so much the xml that i'm worried about, but the fact it's not included in the class itself
00:10:51 [AaronSw-UK]
i don't like having to write a class, an interface file, a metadata file, etc.
00:11:37 [hazmat]
some of it can probably be automated, the interface generation for instance, Interfaces has a utility method impliedInterfaceForClass or some such.
00:12:26 [AaronSw-UK]
cool
00:12:56 [AaronSw-UK]
It certainly seems awfully close to what i designed this morning.
00:13:27 [AaronSw-UK]
but i wonder if i'm missing something because there's all this stuff i don't understand
00:14:04 [AaronSw-UK]
ugh, .html and index.html madness
00:14:08 [AaronSw-UK]
in http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/ZopeComponentArchitecture/PythonProgrammerTutorial/Chapter1/Step4/README.txt?rev=1.5&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
00:14:44 [AaronSw-UK]
wow, the similarities really are quite striking
00:18:03 [hazmat]
as far as url madness, the .html/index.html doesn't bother me as that is implementation specific, i'm a little concerned over the frameworks presentation url stuff http://www.zope.org//Members/michel/Components/Components/ThoughtsOnURLsForTheNewReligion
00:18:50 [sbp]
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00:18:53 [AaronSw-UK]
yeah, that scares me
00:20:19 [AaronSw-UK]
hey sbp
00:20:22 [sbp]
Hi
00:20:33 [AaronSw-UK]
which do you think is better for versions:
00:20:39 [sbp]
er... ~
00:20:42 [sbp]
Have you managed to work out what day you're going to come down?
00:20:47 [AaronSw-UK]
not really
00:21:05 [sbp]
Well let me know - other people are visiting, and I want to plan it
00:21:28 [AaronSw-UK]
Oh, other people are visiting... hmm.
00:21:37 [AaronSw-UK]
I like this: "presentation components name thier application components"
00:22:09 [sbp]
Well not at the same time as you :-) Just Stu, and possibly family. But I want to make sure that there are no conflicting events
00:22:52 [AaronSw-UK]
Ah.
00:23:03 [AaronSw-UK]
Well, I'll lobby for Sun/Mon
00:23:11 [AaronSw-UK]
Hmm, I didn't know Ben came on.
00:23:59 [AaronSw-UK]
tav`: how is 2:00 PM tomorrow? at the churchill hotel
00:26:16 [AaronSw-UK]
ok, now i must sleep.
00:26:35 [sbp]
Pff, it's only half-past-midnight! :-)
00:26:49 [AaronSw-UK]
heh heh
00:26:57 [AaronSw-UK]
that's when i get to go to sleep in the us :-)
00:26:57 [sbp]
Have a nice sleep
00:26:58 [AaronSw-UK]
.time cst
00:26:59 [xena]
Dec. 27, 2001 6:28 pm US/Central
00:28:34 [AaronSw-UK]
tav, leave a message at 02074865800 room 740 if that's not ok
00:28:41 [AaronSw-UK]
nite all
00:28:48 [sbp]
c'ya
00:29:03 [AaronSw-UK]
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00:29:19 [sbp]
Heh, it's good that he's in a sensible time-zone for a change
00:30:42 [hazmat]
where does aaron live normally?
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01:08:28 [lilo]
Hi all. Just to remind you. Channels #secrets and #!/bin/sh are bot-infested and we are juping them again. If you try to join those channels, you will be k-lined and will need to write to support@openprojects.net for help. Please don't, and if you see anyone asking someone to join one of those channels, tell them not to. Thanks again.
02:09:59 [hazmat]
hazmat is now known as lethedrinker
02:15:07 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker is now known as hazmat
02:16:11 [sbp]
Ah, nick-joke-spill-over
02:16:21 [sbp]
.google lethedrinker
02:16:22 [xena]
lethedrinker: http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/2001-11-04.txt
02:16:33 [sbp]
Hmm...
02:17:59 [sbp]
Well, Aaron's "archive everything, archive it now, archive it to the Web" policy helps a little bit
02:24:41 [hazmat]
not really if the archive gives no context.
02:28:20 [sbp]
True
02:28:45 [sbp]
But now you're here... would you care to enlighten me (and the rest of the Google-knowing world?) :-)
02:28:53 [sbp]
s/?)/)?/
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02:34:20 [hazmat]
sorry i tend to drop in and out frequently, intersting talk on #zope, its dying down know.
02:34:51 [sbp]
cool
02:34:52 [hazmat]
lethe being the river that forgets, and me being a frequent drinker. think memento (the movie)
02:35:09 [sbp]
Ah, I don't think it's been on over here yet
02:35:18 [hazmat]
.google river lethe
02:35:18 [xena]
river lethe: http://rescomp.stanford.edu/dorms/wilbur/okada/ok00/first.htm
02:35:45 [hazmat]
umm.. not quite
02:36:06 [hazmat]
sbp: thats ok, any pub will take you there :)
02:36:48 [hazmat]
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/3803/lethe.html
02:37:47 [sbp]
aha, neat
02:39:44 [sbp]
heh, heh: http://www.cs.reading.ac.uk/archive/palindrome/emordnilap/evihcra/ku.ca.gdr.sc.www/:ptth/
02:41:58 [sbp]
technically, it needs to have the "/" taken off of the end
02:43:07 [sbp]
http://eserver.org/langs/palindromes.txt
02:45:07 [sbp]
You can cage a swallow can't you, but you can't swallow a cage can you?
02:45:54 [hazmat]
african swallow?
02:46:21 [hazmat]
* hazmat rewinds monty python and the holy grail
02:49:54 [hazmat]
interesting link
03:12:59 [hazmat]
.py raise SystemExit
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03:50:32 [sbp]
For some odd reason, I got to thinking about a perfect browser last night, so I should scribe some of my thoughts into this /dev/null ish IRC channel
03:50:47 [sbp]
O.K.
03:52:03 [sbp]
So, the first thing I thought of is that browsers are just too cluttery these days. Bookmarks? Who cares - if we had better HyperText editors, bookmarks would be pretty obsolete. And this chaning of components... I just want a browser, not an browser/editor/email/irc/whaever combination
03:52:35 [sbp]
Anyway, my "perfect" browser would probably have just two functions - browse Web, edit text
03:52:42 [sbp]
s/functions/modes/
03:53:35 [sbp]
Because I also think that text editors generally suck. Once again, most of the time I just want something that loads quickly, and can do simple stuff like search and replace. If I'm going to do anything complex, I'll run a script of some kind on it
03:53:57 [sbp]
So a WebBrowser/TextEditor combination would be great
03:54:42 [sbp]
That way, you could have a mode to show a resource as text/plain (kinda equivalent to view-source), and then edit the thing that you have in the browser window, saving the result
03:54:56 [sbp]
So it'd have to be able to save over HTTP (using PUT), and FTP, and locally
03:55:27 [sbp]
It would also be neat to have a redirect function, so that when you save to http://example.org/blargh, it actually saves it to the relevent FTP server
03:55:52 [sbp]
Of course, you'd have to beware of bloat, but something simple like that should be alright
03:56:04 [deltab]
that could be done by a proxy
03:56:39 [sbp]
Yeah. I was thinking of creating a utility proxy... there have been a number of little things for which I've thought "well, a proxy could do that"
03:57:19 [sbp]
I should have written them down, really. Ah, ad-blocking was probably one application
03:59:36 [hazmat]
sbp: mozilla has a component architecture, has embedded python, and an xml based ui... its not a browser, its a cross platform application framework :)
04:00:52 [sbp]
I was just about to suggest that a "perfect browser" is in the mind of the beholder only; that you need open, modularized, extensible browser frameworks in order to have a chance of satisfying everyone
04:01:20 [sbp]
But the great majority of people don't want to sit down and design/build a browser...
04:05:24 [hazmat]
i rather build my own...
04:07:21 [sbp]
heh, heh
04:07:56 [hazmat]
fuck the traditional browser, mozilla can help make web applications that feel like a desktop app. collaspse the interface. or it can be an new application with dynamic installation of new functionality/apps, security, rdf:) support, protocols,... sigh. perhaps i need to drink some more of the lethe
04:09:50 [sbp]
Hmm... I just want something that browses half decently, and edits text. I've not really found anything close, yet
04:11:21 [hazmat]
opera?
04:17:56 [sbp]
Nah
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* AaronSw-UK drops in for a sec before he has to go.
15:40:06 [AaronSw-UK]
A::Well, we got a temporary AOL account which seems to work, while sparing us some really outrageous hotel phone bills.
15:40:09 [chumpster]
commented item A
15:41:28 [AaronSw-UK]
this is cool: http://www.creativemac.com/2001/12_dec/features/applequicktimelive011217.htm
15:41:44 [AaronSw-UK]
"""Apple is moving everything--"every piece of our architecture and infrastructure," according to Casanova--toward open standards and attempting to bring others along with them."""
15:43:36 [AaronSw-UK]
sbp, Memento is a great movie. Be sure to watch it many times ASAP.
15:44:05 [AaronSw-UK]
What have I done? On the phone tav said he was excited to see I "liked" Zope3.
15:45:08 [AaronSw-UK]
* AaronSw-UK notes to sbp that ArchiverProxy does a nice job of adblocking.
15:45:18 [AaronSw-UK]
There are a ton of Python adblocking proxies, really.
15:47:39 [AaronSw-UK]
The one thing that sucks about the UK is the cameras everywhere.
15:48:08 [AaronSw-UK]
Ooh, December Googlefriends
15:48:39 [AaronSw-UK]
Google: "[In 2001] We reached profitability as a company"
15:49:35 [AaronSw-UK]
- Google opens an office in Hamburg
15:49:45 [AaronSw-UK]
Google principles: http://www.google.com/corporate/today.html
15:51:15 [AaronSw-UK]
history: http://www.google.com/corporate/history.html
15:52:16 [AaronSw-UK]
2001 timeline: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html
16:00:03 [AaronSw-UK]
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2001/12/18/eguillermo.DTL
16:01:44 [AaronSw-UK]
c'ya
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.seen AaronSw
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AaronSw seen joining #rdfig ~ 7 hr(s) 35 min(s) 39 sec(s) ago
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