IRC log of swhack on 2001-12-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:00:38 [sbp]
- chumpster - bot. Bot! We feed it URIs as snacks, and it digests them, and craps them out to our WebLog: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ Yes, you can browse through our piles of crap any day. chumpster's turdlets have even been noticed by wmf and Dave Winer, which means they must be good
- 00:01:33 [sbp]
- deltab - Daniel Biddle, SSG (some sysadmin guy). One of tav's minions, except that in the espian vision, "minion" is a synonym for "master". We like the espian vision (but they're still odd)
- 00:01:53 [sbp]
- em - Semantic Web Activity Leader, and SVL, Eric Miller. Need I say any more? I think not
- 00:02:48 [sbp]
- hazmat - dunno. Who is this person? Where is it from? What's it's name/sex/eating habits? Doesn't speak all that often, but I'll bet it listens... It may be another AaronSw listening device, or some NSA contraption
- 00:03:18 [sbp]
- logster - = BigBrother. We love it really. Spews to http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ It's a bot! Bot!
- 00:03:56 [sbp]
- Morbus - Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, ho, ho, he, he, he!!! Oh, mercy me. Some guy who runs disobey.com
- 00:04:03 [Morbus]
- what the!
- 00:04:08 [Morbus]
- oh sure! i got the brush off!
- 00:04:15 [Morbus]
- i *always* get the brush off!
- 00:04:17 [Morbus]
- <>
- 00:04:27 [sbp]
- oh, alright, I'll give you a proper review, hold on to your hat...
- 00:05:57 [hazmat]
- i exist, i am real, i have memories, sentience, and yes i do listen.
- 00:06:03 [Morbus]
- gasp!
- 00:06:05 [Morbus]
- he talks!
- 00:06:07 [sbp]
- Morbus - Morbus' real name is Kevin Heminway (pronouned: Hemmingway). We call him "hey you" for short. He runs disobey.com, likes camgirls, wants to see a bit more of scats' breast flesh, had an article linked to by Apple... er... anything else? Oh yeah, he's pretty nuts
- 00:06:21 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh.
- 00:06:31 [Morbus]
- it's heMENWAY with an "e". i shall assault your geriatric misspellings!
- 00:06:32 [sbp]
- aaaaargh! hazmat is sentient? I should correct the review, but I'm not going to
- 00:06:37 [Morbus]
- where is my poop covered moose beaver?
- 00:06:41 [sbp]
- lol!
- 00:06:50 [Morbus]
- :)
- 00:07:53 [AaronSw]
- I've added this to the site:
- 00:07:55 [AaronSw]
- """
- 00:07:55 [AaronSw]
- What is this?
- 00:07:56 [AaronSw]
- This is a weblog run by the Swhack Cabal. Who are they? Let's just say There Is No Global RDF Conspiracy.
- 00:07:57 [AaronSw]
- We have friends with weblogs too: Dave, Edd and his PANTS, McCusker, Morb, RDF IG, Wes.
- 00:07:58 [hazmat]
- * hazmat likes python, and is but a novice in the land of rdf and inference engines...
- 00:07:58 [AaronSw]
- """
- 00:08:22 [sbp]
- sbp - me. What do I dare say about me? Sean B. Palmer, ace newspaper manufacturer, and water spout designer. No one knows what the "B." stands for (even me, perhaps). Sean kinds runs infomesh.net, but there's nothing there. He also sucks, but in a nice way
- 00:08:36 [Morbus]
- uh, you suck in a nice way?
- 00:08:42 [Morbus]
- that, um, doesn't sound so, um, you know.
- 00:08:49 [Morbus]
- that's like anti-agora if you ask me;)
- 00:09:08 [hazmat]
- well it might to some.
- 00:09:37 [sbp]
- scipient - q.v. hazmat. May be sentient, may not be. Could also be another one of Aaron's contraptions. Frequents #whiterose #freenet #swhack #infoanarchy, so that gives you a measure of the person
- 00:10:29 [sbp]
- tansaku - some Japanese guy, who actually piped up the other day. At least, he spoke a bit about Japan, so I presume he's Japanese. I don't know anything else about him, so add one "suck" point to me
- 00:11:24 [sbp]
- tav` - like Morbus, but not, if you know what I mean. SEG (some espian guy), probably from England. No one knows his real name, not even him
- 00:11:31 [sbp]
- xena - tav's sex toy
- 00:11:33 [sbp]
- done
- 00:11:42 [scipient]
- AaronSw, am i one of your contraptions?
- 00:11:50 [AaronSw]
- Not last time I checked.
- 00:11:57 [sbp]
- ooh! another member of our oddball clan speaks :-)
- 00:14:38 [sbp]
- * sbp walks a fine line between beign humourous and disparaging, sometimes
- 00:14:43 [Morbus]
- heh.
- 00:14:47 [sbp]
- s/beign/being/
- 00:15:12 [Morbus]
- just editing my part2
- 00:15:12 [Morbus]
- sadly enough, i have MORE revisions than the first one, but they're all related to my suck ass text.
- 00:15:12 [Morbus]
- blargh. i'm never satisifed with what i put out.
- 00:15:26 [Morbus]
- heh. i read that as "benign humor".
- 00:16:12 [hazmat]
- benign tumor ?
- 00:16:48 [AaronSw]
- Can anyone think of more to link to?
- 00:17:20 [Morbus]
- disobey.com/about/presspit.shtml? <G>
- 00:17:25 [sbp]
- Dane Wiper's what's-its-name?
- 00:17:35 [AaronSw]
- Already have those
- 00:17:40 [hazmat]
- http://www.zope.org/Members/k_vertigo/mozilla/zope.xul
- 00:17:45 [sbp]
- ah, so you do...
- 00:17:56 [hazmat]
- hazmat's work on a xul based sidebar for zope
- 00:18:14 [sbp]
- * sbp waves to hazmat, is glad he's a real person (means less bots on channel)
- 00:18:47 [sbp]
- * sbp loads the XUL in Mozilla...
- 00:18:53 [AaronSw]
- lol. Zooko: """I've been reading David McCusker's web log every day for a few weeks (he is already hacking on a new programming language). Today he mentioned that he makes every sentence be at most one line long. I scanned through all the pages that I've recently read, double-checking. It's true! The end of every line is the end of a sentence! This is vaguely irritating. It's a demonstration of how clever he is, and I'm irritated that I don't have any cl
- 00:18:53 [AaronSw]
- ve decided not to like it."""
- 00:19:27 [sbp]
- hazmat: nice bit of work, and cool Python links
- 00:19:42 [hazmat]
- sbp: its in desparate need of a stylesheet and a better look, and some functionality... but i'm still learning xul/xbel.
- 00:19:57 [sbp]
- wow, Zooko never noticed that? He must be joking
- 00:20:10 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, I thought he would have noticed by now
- 00:20:12 [sbp]
- well, it's pretty neat as it is, IMO
- 00:20:20 [hazmat]
- thanks
- 00:21:03 [AaronSw]
- gotta run, dinner
- 00:21:30 [sbp]
- c'ya
- 00:21:32 [sbp]
- aw: "This is David McCusker's weblog. That rumor that I'm a
- 00:21:32 [sbp]
- two-headed mutant is false.
- 00:21:41 [sbp]
- " - http://treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/new.htm
- 00:21:46 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, that's great.
- 00:22:02 [AaronSw]
- c'ya
- 00:22:02 [Morbus]
- whoo!
- 00:22:08 [Morbus]
- took me an hour an a half to edit this part 2.
- 00:22:09 [Morbus]
- sigh.
- 00:23:36 [Morbus]
- found a dfont converter, but the list i'm on says that .dfonts are a transitional format for apple, and wont be the end all, be all.
- 00:23:42 [Morbus]
- so, i wont' be converting. yay.
- 00:24:28 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- 00:24:53 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m21-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 00:27:30 [sbp]
- @ http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=phenomic
- 00:27:34 [chumpster]
- A: The DICT Development Group: Online Dictionary Query- phenomic from sbp
- 00:27:59 [sbp]
- A::Whaddya mean "No definitions found for "phenomic""???
- 00:28:00 [chumpster]
- commented item A
- 00:28:39 [sbp]
- A::cf. [http://infomesh.net/2001/phenomic/|Phenomic defined]
- 00:28:40 [chumpster]
- commented item A
- 00:30:09 [sbp]
- A::Support our cause; use "phenomic" in your articles, emails, and everyday speech today!
- 00:30:11 [chumpster]
- commented item A
- 00:30:24 [Morbus]
- my use of phenomic should be next friday, sbp :)
- 00:30:29 [Morbus]
- on oreilly, no les.
- 00:30:29 [hazmat]
- .google David McCusker
- 00:30:30 [sbp]
- ooh! :-)
- 00:30:31 [xena]
- David McCusker: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/new.htm
- 00:30:40 [hazmat]
- who is david M?
- 00:31:29 [sbp]
- Some programmer that runs a Weblog
- 00:32:08 [sbp]
- In order word, "dunno; ask Aaron". Hmm... I seem to be answering most questions put to me with that answer...
- 00:32:17 [sbp]
- s/word/words/
- 00:32:37 [sbp]
- * sbp wonders what happened to his sense of grammar
- 00:34:13 [sbp]
- .google learn me some grammar
- 00:34:14 [xena]
- learn me some grammar: http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~econrad/lang/latin.html
- 00:34:24 [hazmat]
- hmm.. found his resume http://treedragon.com/ged/mc/re/asformal.txt
- 00:38:07 [sbp]
- @ http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/2001/12/11#pythontimeline
- 00:38:10 [chumpster]
- B: 404 Not Found from sbp
- 00:38:17 [sbp]
- er...
- 00:38:40 [sbp]
- B:|A Brief History Of Python
- 00:38:41 [chumpster]
- titled item B
- 00:39:22 [sbp]
- B::Well, a timeline. That's a brief history. By Mark Pilgrim
- 00:39:23 [chumpster]
- commented item B
- 00:40:15 [sbp]
- B::Try the [http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/pythontimeline|actual time line]. Damn cut and paste
- 00:40:16 [chumpster]
- commented item B
- 00:41:08 [sbp]
- B::Heh: """A lot of effort went into making this effortless
- 00:41:09 [chumpster]
- commented item B
- 00:41:35 [sbp]
- @ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2986@charon.cwi.nl
- 00:41:37 [chumpster]
- C: Google Search: from sbp
- 00:42:00 [sbp]
- B::Seems we're not the only ones looking up the history of things now that Google has put the usenet archives up
- 00:42:01 [chumpster]
- commented item B
- 00:42:15 [sbp]
- C:|Guido Announces Python
- 00:42:16 [chumpster]
- titled item C
- 00:42:46 [sbp]
- C::Python and the WWW in the same year?
- 00:42:47 [chumpster]
- commented item C
- 00:46:11 [Morbus]
- heh. my longest sticky note on my desktop: Sep 04, 1999 at 04:26 PM
- 00:47:23 [AaronSw]
- hellow again
- 00:47:55 [sbp]
- C::cf. [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:guido%40cwi.nl&start=430&hl=en&rnum=433&selm=99%40piring.cwi.nl&filter=0|Guido's first post], 1987
- 00:47:56 [chumpster]
- commented item C
- 00:47:57 [sbp]
- Hi
- 00:49:56 [Morbus]
- hi there. i love you long time.
- 00:50:14 [AaronSw]
- gotta run
- 00:50:23 [AaronSw]
- think of more links for me!
- 00:50:32 [sbp]
- heh! http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=feb712b0.0110090125.76a46e34%40posting.google.com
- 00:50:59 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh
- 00:51:00 [AaronSw]
- bye
- 00:51:08 [sbp]
- c'ya
- 00:51:16 [sbp]
- * sbp wonders where he's off to
- 00:51:36 [sbp]
- Man, we've gotta get going on the ol' RDF Primer... "Hoax"?
- 00:51:47 [sbp]
- [[[
- 00:51:47 [sbp]
- on the Semantic Web, but when I get no replies, is it due to that
- 00:51:47 [sbp]
- there is none hotels in Kabul matching my search, or is it because
- 00:51:47 [sbp]
- no-one has created RDF descriptions of these hotels ?
- 00:51:47 [sbp]
- Which leads me to, "Is the Semantic web a hoax ?"
- 00:51:48 [sbp]
- ]]]
- 00:53:27 [sbp]
- one from Jim Ley on the Semantic Web: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3af1d40c.4629144%40chicago.usenetserver.com
- 00:59:39 [sbp]
- @ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=36C82068.4C07%40earthlink.net
- 00:59:45 [chumpster]
- D: Google Search: from sbp
- 01:00:22 [sbp]
- D:|Cetus OOLP (Prolog) Page Updated
- 01:00:23 [chumpster]
- titled item D
- 01:00:43 [sbp]
- D::First mention of the "Semantic Web" on USENET, it appears
- 01:00:43 [chumpster]
- commented item D
- 01:03:12 [sbp]
- Hmm... I wonder when the Semantic Web really came about? We know where it came from, PICS, KRep, and hundreds of other things... but when did it really spring?
- 01:03:42 [sbp]
- I guess Alex Chislenko's 1997 paper was seminal
- 01:05:34 [sbp]
- http://web.archive.org/web/19990508061622/http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Semantic.html is the earliest Archive copy of the Semantic Web roadmap
- 01:06:58 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m350-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com)))
- 01:07:13 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m350-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 01:08:07 [sbp]
- So I guess the "Semantic Web" is kinda from September 1998, but only in as much as the WWW is from 1989/1990
- 01:08:25 [Morbus]
- Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
- 01:08:50 [sbp]
- the first real deployment of Semantic Web architecture couldn't begin until RDF was established, which is an odd thing to have to wait for
- 01:10:24 [sbp]
- So I guess I was a bit of a late-comer, only reaching it in the fall of 2000
- 01:10:57 [sbp]
- 'twas already a couple of years old. OTOH, nothing much important had been done for the SW. A great deal for RDF, but not for the SW
- 01:19:04 [sbp]
- Hmm... it'd be neat if I could actually take some data from elsewhere on the Web, and get it all out in one file
- 01:19:25 [sbp]
- I'd probably need to do "semanticsOrError" and work it from there
- 01:19:47 [sbp]
- and the other problem is finding something that's a) decent data b) in RDF
- 01:22:33 [hazmat]
- i keep thinking rdf and semantic web remind more than little of prolog
- 01:27:11 [sbp]
- yep, 'tis true. Bijan Parsia's article might be of value to you
- 01:27:24 [sbp]
- .google site:xml.com Bijan Parsia Semantic Web Prolog
- 01:27:24 [xena]
- site:xml.com Bijan Parsia Semantic Web Prolog: http://www.xml.com/pub/au/93
- 01:27:49 [sbp]
- http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/04/25/prologrdf/index.html
- 01:28:10 [sbp]
- ah, you're in #rdfig now... you can just ask him about it :-)
- 01:29:05 [hazmat]
- too busy lurking ;)
- 01:29:13 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh :-)
- 01:30:04 [hazmat]
- thanks for da link.
- 01:30:08 [sbp]
- np
- 01:48:49 [sbp]
- wow, there's not much in the way of decent data on the SW
- 01:49:30 [sbp]
- in fact, I came up with nothing that I'd want to reference. No quotes, no page summaries, no interesting data at all. Just some cruddy old RSS files, and a few placeholder experiments
- 01:52:02 [sbp]
- ah, perhaps there's something in RDFWeb
- 02:06:51 [sbp]
- Hmm... just can't find anything I'd want to put in a page; even one with lots of really odd bits of information
- 02:07:01 [sbp]
- I put all I found at:-
- 02:07:01 [sbp]
- http://infomesh.net/2001/12/swlog.n3
- 02:07:09 [sbp]
- a kind of "Semantic Weblog"
- 02:07:39 [sbp]
- but much of it is pretty worthless. Some of the bits in my homepage are alright
- 02:08:27 [sbp]
- Of course, I could just go around converting things that I want to feature into RDF... but I want the oweners to maintain it
- 02:09:36 [sbp]
- perhaps a "real" RDF Wiki would do?
- 02:10:00 [sbp]
- where people can edit the N3 files, and if it validates through CWM, it gets uploaded. Ooh! What a neat idea
- 02:10:10 [sbp]
- BLURB:SWAG RDF Wiki (proper one)
- 02:10:13 [chumpster]
- E: SWAG RDF Wiki (proper one) from sbp
- 02:11:02 [sbp]
- E:People can go to a URI like http://purl.org/swag/wiki/blargh and it will bring up a Notation3 version of the files at blargh.n3 and blargh.rdf
- 02:11:22 [sbp]
- E:Then people just edit the N3 as they like, and submit it back to the server
- 02:12:11 [sbp]
- E:If CWM parses it correctly (and, for example, we could decree that all files must have a title, description, and maintainer), then it gets posted to the site
- 02:12:20 [sbp]
- E::People can go to a URI like http://purl.org/swag/wiki/blargh and it will bring up a Notation3 version of the files at blargh.n3 and blargh.rdf
- 02:12:21 [chumpster]
- commented item E
- 02:12:25 [sbp]
- E::Then people just edit the N3 as they like, and submit it back to the server
- 02:12:26 [chumpster]
- commented item E
- 02:12:33 [sbp]
- E::If CWM parses it correctly (and, for example, we could decree that all files must have a title, description, and maintainer), then it gets posted to the site
- 02:12:34 [chumpster]
- commented item E
- 02:57:00 [lilo]
- [Global Notice] Hi all. Could we have about 1,000 more people on the test net? We're beginning to do final testing for a bug fix release. Thanks. (irc.openprojects.net:9001)
- 02:58:51 [lilo]
- [Global Notice] To repeat, the test net can be reached at: irc.openprojects.net, port 9001 .... thanks! :)
- 03:06:59 [sbp]
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- 03:07:03 [SeanP]
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- 03:07:04 [SeanP]
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- 03:07:58 [sbp]
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- 03:13:54 [AaronSw]
- what about MusicBrainz? that's useful data
- 03:14:20 [sbp]
- Not much use to me, though. I mean data that I can get bits of and use on some page
- 03:14:33 [AaronSw]
- Really?
- 03:14:37 [sbp]
- Actually, perhaps MB would be useful for that - I could do a list of albums I like
- 03:14:37 [AaronSw]
- You listen to all this music?
- 03:14:40 [AaronSw]
- Right.
- 03:14:50 [AaronSw]
- and have it grab titles, and then you could do playlists and stuff
- 03:15:16 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw just got back, btw
- 03:15:37 [sbp]
- wb
- 03:15:49 [sbp]
- do you have an entrance link for me?
- 03:15:55 [AaronSw]
- musicbrainz.org?
- 03:16:19 [AaronSw]
- hey, cool. readers of wes's blog are recommended to visit us
- 03:16:32 [AaronSw]
- see http://blogdex.media.mit.edu/socnet/index.asp?ego=blogspace.com/swhack/weblog
- 03:17:42 [sbp]
- nice
- 03:17:57 [sbp]
- did you see my RDF Wiki suggestion? It's in the chump
- 03:18:13 [AaronSw]
- yep
- 03:18:18 [AaronSw]
- what's the usecase?
- 03:18:55 [sbp]
- use case? Getting some data on the SW
- 03:19:35 [sbp]
- neat: http://mm.musicbrainz.org/album/dcb32a8e-b047-4884-b515-2e73542f42df
- 03:19:38 [AaronSw]
- but why can't people just put it up in n3 by themselves?
- 03:20:04 [sbp]
- er... p'on me?
- 03:20:10 [sbp]
- well, it's a Wiki, isn't it
- 03:20:19 [AaronSw]
- hmm, true
- 03:24:02 [AaronSw]
- @ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,49122,00.html
- 03:24:05 [chumpster]
- F: Russian Hacker Charges Dropped from AaronSw
- 03:24:26 [sbp]
- aw... it's a shame it doesn't use "by"
- 03:24:34 [AaronSw]
- F::Dmitri is freed! Well, sorta.
- 03:24:37 [chumpster]
- commented item F
- 03:24:38 [AaronSw]
- "by"?
- 03:24:38 [sbp]
- -chumpster:#swhack- F: Russian Hacker Charges Dropped by AaronSw
- 03:24:47 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh.
- 03:24:55 [AaronSw]
- F::via [Wes|http://wmf.editthispage.com/2001/12/13]
- 03:24:56 [chumpster]
- commented item F
- 03:25:46 [AaronSw]
- F::More at the [Free Dmitry Sklyarov|http://www.freesklyarov.org/] website.
- 03:25:48 [chumpster]
- commented item F
- 03:29:00 [mnot]
- mnot (~mnot@adsl-64-170-196-242.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack
- 03:29:10 [sbp]
- aaaaargh!
- 03:29:11 [AaronSw]
- Everyone say hi to today's special guest: mnot.
- 03:29:25 [AaronSw]
- mnot is here to chat about http://test.mnot.net/sparta/
- 03:29:25 [sbp]
- er... yeah, "hi"; that's what I meant
- 03:29:33 [mnot]
- it's very close
- 03:29:33 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh!
- 03:30:06 [sbp]
- :-)
- 03:30:09 [mnot]
- * mnot has lost a lot of state about Sparta, but will try to remember
- 03:30:33 [AaronSw]
- I'm sorry I missed you when you first mentioned it...
- 03:30:41 [AaronSw]
- So, here's where I'm coming from: I've got a platform on which I want people to build apps and store their data in RDF.
- 03:31:02 [AaronSw]
- And I see integration tools like sparta as a way to make it easier for them to do that.
- 03:31:43 [mnot]
- right. people from an OO world can grasp the nodes and arcs pretty easily; statements aren't as intuitive.
- 03:32:26 [mnot]
- this is a double-edged sword, as it hides a lot of the capabilities of RDF, but it's a good starter tool, as well as a convenient way to programmatically write RDF (which is where I was coming from)
- 03:33:10 [AaronSw]
- Hmm... it seems it's not as good as really programmatic kind of stuff since you have to do all sorts of property name hacking.
- 03:33:15 [AaronSw]
- That's one thing that sort of worried me.
- 03:33:49 [AaronSw]
- The ns_localname idiom felt a bit hacky... but i'm not sure there's much better.
- 03:34:02 [AaronSw]
- also, why is there no http:/ in
- 03:34:02 [AaronSw]
- mary.contact_www = "/www.example.org/people#mary"
- 03:35:23 [mnot]
- oh, i was just playing with 4rdf there
- 03:35:43 [AaronSw]
- Oh, to get it to stop doing the resoruce conversion?
- 03:35:56 [mnot]
- that's where it automagically recognises a uri (bad)
- 03:36:02 [mnot]
- yep
- 03:36:25 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, I was going to run your thing, but i don't really want to grab the whole 4t package...
- 03:36:44 [mnot]
- its easy to install, fwiw
- 03:37:12 [AaronSw]
- Ooh, neat -- Chris Langreiter reads our blog.
- 03:38:30 [AaronSw]
- So why did you build Sparta, mnot?
- 03:39:40 [mnot]
- curiousity, mostly. didnt like the apis that i'd seen.
- 03:40:29 [mnot]
- seemed like a natural fit for the py object model
- 03:40:44 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, it's definitely inspiring.
- 03:40:56 [AaronSw]
- So the way I did namespaces was to create a Namespace class which just let you refer to things in it.
- 03:41:00 [AaronSw]
- Like:
- 03:41:12 [AaronSw]
- dc = rdf.Namespace('http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/')
- 03:41:12 [mnot]
- * mnot is typing slowly because he's holding a baby; sorry;)
- 03:41:16 [AaronSw]
- no problem
- 03:41:20 [AaronSw]
- and then you coudld say:
- 03:41:34 [AaronSw]
- dc.title
- 03:41:45 [mnot]
- right
- 03:41:48 [AaronSw]
- and it'd refer to that namespace+'title' via some getattr tricks
- 03:42:01 [mnot]
- for a while i was doing that
- 03:42:25 [mnot]
- e.g., bob.dc.title = "Bob"
- 03:42:26 [AaronSw]
- Hmm, so why'd you switch>
- 03:42:48 [Morbus]
- Morbus (~Morbus@s115.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
- 03:42:51 [AaronSw]
- I was thinking Bob[dc.title] = "Bob" actually.
- 03:43:08 [mnot]
- for prototyping, this was sufficient
- 03:43:08 [AaronSw]
- but they're pretty close
- 03:43:16 [mnot]
- ah, the UserDict approach
- 03:43:23 [Morbus]
- i'm liking movable type more and more.
- 03:43:33 [Morbus]
- just spent the last three hours messing with it.
- 03:43:55 [Morbus]
- mnot! hey, how ya doing.
- 03:44:05 [AaronSw]
- so why'd you switch away from the dc.title thing?
- 03:44:10 [mnot]
- I walso wanted to support Thing( predicate=object, predicate=object) but doing ns.predicate as an arg in python is illegal
- 03:44:23 [AaronSw]
- oh... i hadn't thought of that.
- 03:44:31 [mnot]
- that was the most immediate reason
- 03:45:04 [AaronSw]
- How do you decide between the literal string "person" and the object "person_bob"?
- 03:45:40 [AaronSw]
- interesting: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2001/1212opes.html
- 03:46:00 [mnot]
- the interface isn't very solid; would be cool to get a bunch of different approaches and compare
- 03:46:10 [mnot]
- hey morbus, how's it going?
- 03:46:13 [mnot]
- brb
- 03:46:30 [AaronSw]
- Morbus, you know mnot?
- 03:47:15 [GabeW]
- GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack
- 03:47:19 [mnot]
- syndication list
- 03:47:23 [mnot]
- * mnot puts the baby down
- 03:47:25 [sbp]
- Hi Gabe
- 03:47:28 [AaronSw]
- ah
- 03:47:28 [Morbus]
- not personally. i'm sure we know each other's names.
- 03:47:36 [GabeW]
- baby down? someone else here with a baby?
- 03:47:45 [sbp]
- (Hemmingway: with an "e")
- 03:47:46 [GabeW]
- hi sbp and everyone else
- 03:47:47 [mnot]
- yep, for four days ;)
- 03:47:54 [AaronSw]
- congrats!
- 03:47:55 [Morbus]
- damn you sbp!
- 03:48:00 [Morbus]
- you and your damn geriatrics.
- 03:48:03 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh
- 03:48:10 [mnot]
- thx! http://www.mnot.net/photo/2001/charlie_birth/
- 03:48:12 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw waves to charlie
- 03:48:13 [sbp]
- congratulations, mnot
- 03:48:17 [mnot]
- thx
- 03:48:21 [GabeW]
- congrats - mine is almost 12 months old
- 03:48:33 [mnot]
- difference between literal and object:
- 03:48:36 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw wishes mnot would stop changing the url of the charlie pics ;-)
- 03:48:43 [sbp]
- aw, first birthday soon
- 03:48:45 [mnot]
- bob.dc_title = "Bob"
- 03:48:51 [mnot]
- bob.dc_title = bobs_title
- 03:49:01 [mnot]
- where bobs_title = Thing(etc.)
- 03:49:08 [GabeW]
- mnot - man you are good about the pictuers on the web
- 03:49:11 [mnot]
- happy b-day to him!
- 03:49:12 [GabeW]
- mine is sooo out of date
- 03:49:18 [GabeW]
- http://aliyah.wachob.com
- 03:49:40 [mnot]
- cute
- 03:49:50 [mnot]
- uh-oh, gotta go for a litle while ;) brb
- 03:49:56 [AaronSw]
- heh heh
- 03:50:05 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw likes the penguins in http://www.mnot.net/photo/2001/charlie_birth/IMG_0065.html
- 03:50:11 [GabeW]
- * GabeW reads that as "poop attack"
- 03:51:02 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw thinks it'd be really cool to have a website when he was born
- 03:51:08 [AaronSw]
- and an email address, like Tristen
- 03:51:39 [AaronSw]
- Oops, Tristan
- 03:52:30 [sbp]
- We are in the generation for which the WWW didn't exist when we were born, but at least ENQUIRE did
- 03:53:04 [AaronSw]
- But we had it growing up, which is the important thing...
- 03:53:10 [sbp]
- yeah :-)
- 03:53:15 [GabeW]
- Some of us are older than the Internet itself (but maybe not)
- 03:53:22 [sbp]
- And The Simpsons. Don't forget The Simpsons
- 03:53:37 [GabeW]
- I remember reading "Life in Hell" in high school
- 03:53:43 [GabeW]
- by Matt Groenig
- 03:53:50 [sbp]
- cool
- 03:57:04 [mnot]
- Ah, foster city ;)
- 03:57:14 [GabeW]
- yes
- 03:57:17 [AaronSw]
- You're being logged btw
- 03:57:45 [AaronSw]
- so where do you live these days, mnot?
- 03:58:06 [mnot]
- for now, burlingame
- 03:58:23 [GabeW]
- are you looking to move, mnot?
- 03:58:48 [GabeW]
- ahhhh
- 03:58:56 [GabeW]
- hey, I'll brb in 30 min or so
- 03:59:55 [sbp]
- Man, I'm hungry. Someone FedEx me a donut
- 04:00:16 [AaronSw]
- i'll bring one on the plane :)
- 04:00:21 [sbp]
- thanks
- 04:00:28 [AaronSw]
- lol: http://www.tidbits.com/tristan/images/19990215-t-mouse.html
- 04:02:22 [sbp]
- just a plain donut will do. Or white icing
- 04:02:32 [sbp]
- or chocolate... ooh, yeah
- 04:03:31 [sbp]
- * sbp had been working on another RDF API, secretly
- 04:03:50 [Morbus]
- Morbus has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
- 04:03:50 [mnot]
- mnot has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
- 04:03:50 [scipient]
- scipient has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
- 04:03:50 [hazmat]
- hazmat has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
- 04:03:57 [Morbus]
- Morbus (~Morbus@s115.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
- 04:04:03 [AaronSw]
- whoa, splitsville
- 04:04:25 [sbp]
- cool stuff
- 04:04:28 [scipient]
- scipient (~scipient@66.169.64.154) has joined #swhack
- 04:04:41 [AaronSw]
- Another API, eh?
- 04:04:45 [Morbus]
- yeah :(
- 04:04:53 [AaronSw]
- please tell us
- 04:05:07 [sbp]
- Hmm... I'll bet DanC's homepage could be converted into RDF quite easily. It's all notes
- 04:05:11 [AaronSw]
- Morbus, did you get disconnected or just split?
- 04:05:15 [sbp]
- nothing substantial yet
- 04:05:32 [Morbus]
- <Info> The connection to the server is no longer active
- 04:05:34 [Morbus]
- *** You have joined the channel
- 04:05:43 [AaronSw]
- sounds like disconnected
- 04:05:43 [Morbus]
- i dunno. i'm dumb.
- 04:06:03 [AaronSw]
- i hope mnot comes back...
- 04:06:35 [sbp]
- mnot, come back, mnot!
- 04:06:50 [sbp]
- if we all will him back, maybe he'll come
- 04:07:51 [mnot]
- mnot (~mnot@adsl-64-170-196-242.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack
- 04:08:05 [mnot]
- sbp: do tell re: alternate API (or did I miss it?)
- 04:09:03 [AaronSw]
- ugh, 4suite wants a new version of PyXML. i mean i'm running a version of python that isn't even out yet -- shouldn't it have the latest version?
- 04:09:03 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw wonders how mnot finds the time to have a job, a baby, work on standards, answer email and create all sorts of cool python tools
- 04:09:08 [AaronSw]
- wb
- 04:09:08 [sbp]
- Ugh: "xmlns:sched="foo:not-assigned-yet"" - http://www.w3.org/XML/2000/04soccer-sched/team-2.rdf
- 04:09:23 [AaronSw]
- ouch
- 04:09:57 [sbp]
- alternate API: well, I've been hacking on SWIPT for some time now, but I wanted to go with a fresh approach. Just for some potential apps that I wanted to do, but that CWM wouldn't provide for me
- 04:10:25 [AaronSw]
- And you ignored poor PlexRDF?
- 04:11:04 [sbp]
- of course. I just wanted something simple
- 04:11:20 [AaronSw]
- PlexRDF fits on the front side of one page. how is it not simple?
- 04:11:35 [AaronSw]
- not the back side, mind you. we're talking the front side here
- 04:12:10 [sbp]
- short != simple
- 04:12:19 [AaronSw]
- what's complicated?
- 04:12:40 [AaronSw]
- aargh, this is why i didn't want to install 4suite:
- 04:12:44 [AaronSw]
- dyld: python multiple definitions of symbol _XML_DefaultCurrent
- 04:12:44 [AaronSw]
- /sw/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/pyexpat.so definition of _XML_DefaultCurrent
- 04:12:44 [AaronSw]
- /sw/lib/python2.1/site-packages/Ft/Lib/cDomlettec.so definition of _XML_DefaultCurrent
- 04:12:51 [sbp]
- it's not complicated as in baffling, just complicated as in it uses lots of shortcuts etc.
- 04:12:59 [Morbus]
- if, i i have a div class in css, and i want to control p's in there, the rule is .content+p, right?
- 04:13:18 [sbp]
- div p { }
- 04:13:18 [AaronSw]
- sbp, but why do you care if the interface is simple?
- 04:13:29 [sbp]
- because I'm going to be hacking the dang thing
- 04:13:33 [Morbus]
- well, i only want it in the class of "content".
- 04:13:43 [sbp]
- div.content p { }
- 04:13:52 [Morbus]
- ah. cool.
- 04:14:00 [Morbus]
- hope that works.
- 04:14:04 [sbp]
- it will do
- 04:14:10 [AaronSw]
- isn't that CSS2?
- 04:14:15 [Morbus]
- well, it may be correct, but you know browsers.
- 04:14:23 [sbp]
- very basic CSS1 selectors
- 04:15:12 [AaronSw]
- I'm really mystified, sbp. What could be simpler?
- 04:15:32 [AaronSw]
- I mean, ignore the Namespace stuff, fine. but at its core its just Node and Triple, right?
- 04:15:36 [Morbus]
- mmkay, well, that worked on ie for os x.
- 04:15:40 [Morbus]
- now to test the world over.
- 04:15:41 [lilo]
- [Global Notice] Hi all. Uh, thanks to the user who exposed a critical server bug, though I guess we would have been happy if he hadn't done it in production. 8) OTOH, this was not intentional. We should be able to get relatively quick turnaround on a fix. We'll try to make the next upgrade relatively relaxed anyway though.
- 04:15:46 [Morbus]
- it'll prolly mess up netscape.
- 04:16:00 [sbp]
- from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1#class-as-selector downwards
- 04:16:39 [sbp]
- well, stuff like preserving the input labels if you can. RDF API doesn't do that. There are quite a few things like that that just aren't natural to me
- 04:16:48 [sbp]
- but don't get me wrong: it's a kick-ass API
- 04:18:02 [Morbus]
- mmkay. i'm gonna try that.
- 04:18:05 [Morbus]
- pft...
- 04:18:06 [AaronSw]
- well provide a fix for the input label thing...
- 04:18:15 [Morbus]
- well, you know, that secret person i'm talking too, that's what i said.
- 04:18:37 [AaronSw]
- you said provide a fix for the input label thing?
- 04:18:42 [AaronSw]
- i'll do it right now as a matter of fact...
- 04:18:56 [Morbus]
- well, it didn't break in mozilla.
- 04:18:59 [Morbus]
- now in ns 4.7
- 04:19:23 [Morbus]
- course, now i got some evil margin on an end tag of a p. sigh.
- 04:19:40 [sbp]
- so reset the margin property
- 04:19:59 [AaronSw]
- i work so hard to please sbp, but he's never satisfied... i suppose i should give up
- 04:19:59 [Morbus]
- yeah, but that's gonna fuck up everything in tons of browsers.
- 04:20:19 [sbp]
- lol @ working hard to please me. I'm a demanding mistress
- 04:20:25 [sbp]
- er... that didn't come out right
- 04:20:34 [Morbus]
- mmkay. ns 4.7 it works perfect.
- 04:20:36 [Morbus]
- now, icab.
- 04:20:42 [Morbus]
- anyone got omnipage or opera?
- 04:20:52 [AaronSw]
- it's omniweb, silly
- 04:20:55 [sbp]
- I like RDF API! I keep telling you
- 04:20:55 [AaronSw]
- and i have it
- 04:20:57 [Morbus]
- yah, that's what i meant :)
- 04:20:59 [Morbus]
- http://www.disobey.com/gamegrene.com/stories/000001.shtml
- 04:20:59 [sbp]
- I have Opera
- 04:21:04 [Morbus]
- scroll to the bottom.
- 04:21:18 [AaronSw]
- what am i looking for here, Morbus?
- 04:21:27 [AaronSw]
- it doesn't look stupid...
- 04:21:36 [Morbus]
- the font size should be the same, and the "end of text to HR" should be the same length.
- 04:21:49 [Morbus]
- check it out in moz though - the double paragraph leaves extra space to the hr.
- 04:21:54 [AaronSw]
- same as...?
- 04:21:56 [Morbus]
- which is caused by a closing p tag that doesn't exist in the single para.
- 04:22:21 [Morbus]
- that space happens in ie too.
- 04:23:31 [Morbus]
- hmmf. this is annoying.
- 04:23:36 [sbp]
- looks fine in all my browsers: bit different space
- 04:23:37 [Morbus]
- maybe i should .. hmm.
- 04:23:43 [Morbus]
- yeah, i hate that space. drives me nuts.
- 04:23:45 [Morbus]
- anal anal anal.
- 04:24:06 [AaronSw]
- looks fine in omniweb
- 04:24:27 [Morbus]
- maybe i should go backward.
- 04:24:36 [Morbus]
- see, that first comment doesn't have a p tag.
- 04:24:47 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw decides to surf with images and css off to annoy morbus
- 04:24:49 [Morbus]
- which is caused by a hack I did in MT to stop extra space showing up in another p location.
- 04:25:01 [Morbus]
- :)
- 04:25:13 [Morbus]
- mmkay.
- 04:25:19 [Morbus]
- how do i totally remove the top margin of a p?
- 04:25:27 [Morbus]
- i want it to act like a br within a certain div class.
- 04:25:48 [Morbus]
- i mean, act like nothing. be ignored.
- 04:25:51 [Morbus]
- within a certain div class.
- 04:26:38 [sbp]
- div.bollocks p { margin-top: 0em; }
- 04:28:03 [sbp]
- <p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">The root element of all XHTML should be "<code>html</code>"!</p>
- 04:29:33 [Morbus]
- ok. that seemed to work a lot better.
- 04:29:38 [Morbus]
- now the space and the font looks the same in ie.
- 04:29:43 [Morbus]
- and the space problem from the other P is gone./
- 04:29:47 [Morbus]
- now testing again. sigh.
- 04:32:41 [Morbus]
- Morbus has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
- 04:33:35 [Morbus]
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- 04:34:19 [Morbus]
- grumble
- 04:34:29 [Morbus]
- i had to use mozilla.
- 04:34:37 [Morbus]
- mozilla always freezes my modem. its so messed up/
- 04:35:19 [Morbus]
- dammit.
- 04:35:23 [Morbus]
- that flipping margin-top thing doesn't work in icab
- 04:35:53 [Morbus]
- ok. i have <div class="title"><p>content</p></div>
- 04:35:57 [Morbus]
- and that's the p with the margin of 0/
- 04:36:02 [Morbus]
- can i set the margin of the div?
- 04:36:10 [Morbus]
- or of that class, rather?
- 04:36:14 [sbp]
- div.class { ... }
- 04:36:17 [sbp]
- er...
- 04:36:22 [sbp]
- div.title { ... }
- 04:36:24 [Morbus]
- course, i just know that's gonna screw up all the other browsers. ;)
- 04:38:11 [Morbus]
- ah twell.
- 04:38:15 [Morbus]
- i'll play with this tomorrow.
- 04:38:18 [Morbus]
- the gf returns soon
- 04:38:26 [Morbus]
- thanks for the help, sbp
- 04:38:30 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw wonders if mnot is still around
- 04:38:39 [GabeW]
- I'm back
- 04:38:50 [sbp]
- np
- 04:39:02 [GabeW]
- its funny - you wonder how mnot can do all that stuff - see if his productivity doesn't go down drastically post-birth ;-)
- 04:39:07 [sbp]
- * sbp wonders if Morbus is still around
- 04:39:15 [Morbus]
- yeah, yeah.
- 04:39:19 [sbp]
- :-)
- 04:39:54 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, I do wonder GabeW...
- 04:40:58 [GabeW]
- I was working in a (now bankrupt) startup when my daugher was born and I was doing what I believe was a lot more "work" back then
- 04:41:01 [GabeW]
- brb
- 04:41:12 [AaronSw]
- oh, mnot -- this was my other question: how do you repeated properties?
- 04:41:21 [Morbus]
- Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
- 04:42:23 [AaronSw]
- ^ handle
- 04:56:29 [GabeW]
- orasis was talking about bittorrent and swarmcast and akamai earlier today
- 04:56:48 [AaronSw]
- oh, did he say anything interesting?
- 04:57:23 [GabeW]
- well, he said that while they weren't going to threaten akamai's existence, one could run your own little akamai with them
- 05:06:59 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
- 05:41:35 [AaronSw]
- @ http://www.fawcette.com/dotnetmag/2001_12/online/online_eprods/sgillmor/default.asp
- 05:41:42 [chumpster]
- G: http://www.fawcette.com/dotnetmag/2001_12/online/online_eprods/sgillmor/default.asp from AaronSw
- 05:41:57 [AaronSw]
- G:|Go Behind the Scenes of Hailstorm
- 05:41:58 [chumpster]
- titled item G
- 05:42:04 [AaronSw]
- G::Interesting interview with Hailstorm's creators.
- 05:42:05 [chumpster]
- commented item G
- 05:46:21 [AaronSw]
- G::I sort of get the feeling they're reinventing RDF. The red/blue thing sounds like RDF's striped syntax and the data not code mentality sounds like REST not RPC.
- 05:46:23 [chumpster]
- commented item G
- 05:47:21 [mnot]
- * mnot is around (for the moment...)
- 05:47:29 [AaronSw]
- mnot, one last question before I go to sleep: how do you deal with repeated attributes?
- 05:47:32 [mnot]
- re: productivity drop; argh.
- 05:47:38 [mnot]
- TBD ;)
- 05:48:00 [mnot]
- did you see the chat re: sparta on #rdfig?
- 05:48:05 [mnot]
- same issue came up.
- 05:48:38 [AaronSw]
- no... don't think i did.
- 05:48:39 [mnot]
- you could return a list of values, but I'm not sure that's sending the right message; it needs to be unordered
- 05:48:49 [AaronSw]
- Python needs bags
- 05:48:49 [mnot]
- hold on a sec...
- 05:48:58 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw greps for it
- 05:49:32 [AaronSw]
- is this it: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-12-08 ?
- 05:49:37 [mnot]
- Hmm, maybe use UserList as a base, and strip out the order-related stuff (would there be much left?)
- 05:49:39 [mnot]
- ah, thx.
- 05:50:08 [AaronSw]
- Or wait for Sets and take out duplicate removal...
- 05:51:28 [mnot]
- yep, that's the ref. I was gratified to see that Tim had some comments (I think of it as a way to do n3 in Python natively, really)
- 05:51:45 [AaronSw]
- Interesting. There was another proposal about doing Python in N3. :-)
- 05:51:57 [AaronSw]
- @for _:foo in :bar:
- 05:52:30 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, so my thought was to have it return a listy thing. so you'd .append(foo) if you wanted to add and = foo if you wanted to overwrite
- 05:53:00 [AaronSw]
- the default return would be the empty bag and non-bags would be turned into bags with one element
- 05:54:56 [AaronSw]
- ok, i really do need to get to sleep now
- 06:00:32 [GabeW]
- and all this time, I thought AaronSw was a bot and thus didn't really need sleep
- 06:00:52 [AaronSw]
- well, even bots need time to cache responses to tomorrow's queries
- 06:01:05 [GabeW]
- see, he's not really sleeping
- 06:01:18 [GabeW]
- QED, AaronSw's a bot
- 06:01:50 [AaronSw]
- That sounds like a converse error to me.
- 06:02:52 [AaronSw]
- Goodnight.
- 06:03:05 [mnot]
- good night!
- 06:03:11 [GabeW]
- good nite!
- 06:03:13 [mnot]
- (well, at least for you folks ;)
- 06:03:29 [GabeW]
- mnot - good night *from* or *to* you?
- 06:04:09 [GabeW]
- oh I get it - someone with a weeks-old-baby saying good night ..
- 06:04:25 [mnot]
- heh. ;)
- 06:04:29 [mnot]
- mnot has quit ("[x]chat")
- 06:04:30 [GabeW]
- is this yor first?
- 06:04:33 [GabeW]
- bye!
- 06:28:16 [hazmat]
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- 10:44:33 [tav`]
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- 14:03:06 [AaronSw]
- altavista
- 14:03:08 [AaronSw]
- metavocab
- 14:04:41 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw disappears
- 14:48:48 [Morbus]
- Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
- 14:49:25 [carter.openprojects.net]
- carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: Morbus' O'Reilly Part 2 Debut's Today. Whoo.
- 14:58:14 [Morbus]
- anyone give neck massages?
- 15:01:12 [Morbus]
- i think i have to whore myself out for a neck massage.
- 15:01:26 [Morbus]
- anyone need an article written? code coded? designs designeD? nudge, nudge?
- 15:10:37 [Morbus]
- well, fine! i'll go nudge someone else! you die! you go to hell and you die!
- 15:15:27 [deus_x]
- deus_x (~deusx@nic-34-c160-7.mw.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack
- 15:24:46 [Morbus]
- @ http://www.uiweb.com/other/chiweb.htm
- 15:24:50 [chumpster]
- H: Best of CHI-WEB - UIWEB.COM from Morbus
- 15:25:13 [Morbus]
- H::"Using the chi-web searchable archive, I've compiled a list of the summary postings from useful threads, and a few personally selected favorite postings (I'd do compile the same for sigia-l if there was a reliable archive). Please note: my list below is not an exhaustive list of summary postings. Also, these summaries are collections of contributing posts: they are a mixture of opinions and commentary, with some references to reports, usability dat
- 15:25:14 [chumpster]
- commented item H
- 15:28:18 [Morbus]
- i think from now on whenever i use a higher ascii character, i'm just gonna replace it with ?.
- 15:28:22 [Morbus]
- like na?ve.
- 15:28:34 [Morbus]
- screw bad readers that can't understand it. bah.
- 15:36:51 [lilo]
- [Global Notice] Hi all. This is a semi-automated reminder. We are approaching our next release upgrade, to 1.0.31, a bug fix release. Please take some time today and through the weekend to use the test bed extensively. It's on irc.openprojects.net, port 9001. Use the channels, have conversations, do everything you do here only more so. It'll help ensure a smooth upgrade. bugs@openprojects.net for problems. This message will repeat. Thanks!
- 15:36:51 [Morbus]
- heh!
- 15:36:58 [Morbus]
- H::Funny posting found from this site: "http://www.magicpub.com/netprimer/acronyms.html is relatively short and
- 15:36:59 [Morbus]
- plays an annoying recording of Tigger in Winnie the Pooh saying "TTFN Ta Ta
- 15:36:59 [Morbus]
- For Now" over and over again (don't ask how I recognize the source<g>).
- 15:36:59 [Morbus]
- "
- 15:37:01 [chumpster]
- commented item H
- 15:37:03 [Morbus]
- goddamit.
- 15:37:24 [Morbus]
- H::plays an annoying recording of Tigger in Winnie the Pooh saying "TTFN Ta Ta For Now" over and over again (don't ask how I recognize the source<g>).
- 15:37:25 [chumpster]
- commented item H
- 15:39:47 [Morbus]
- H::More interesting bits: "Although Internet users frequently complain about receiving unsolicited email advertisements, 14 percent of consumers in an Ernst & Young survey said they will actually go to a site listed in a spam email. While it is not clear whether it is out of anger or interest, users click on email advertisements 3 to 10 times more often than they click on banners. " ) "
- 15:39:48 [chumpster]
- commented item H
- 16:09:13 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m784-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 16:10:50 [Morbus]
- hey sbpster. i've been so lonely without you
- 16:11:21 [sbp]
- Hi there
- 16:13:49 [Morbus]
- no one will give me a neck massage.
- 16:14:08 [sbp]
- Lie against a washing machine
- 16:14:39 [Morbus]
- that's down in the basement. its cold down there. no computers or phone lines. its a dark place. a bad place. one of medieval valor, even.
- 16:15:00 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh
- 16:15:09 [sbp]
- bring it up with you, then
- 16:15:33 [Morbus]
- the stairs are too thin.
- 16:15:40 [Morbus]
- i think they drilled a hole in a wall to get it down there.
- 16:15:43 [Morbus]
- have no clue what they did.
- 16:15:53 [Morbus]
- plus, i'm a weakling.
- 16:15:56 [Morbus]
- you really want me dead?
- 16:16:49 [Morbus]
- H::Another good post, based on [web forms|http://www.listserv.acm.org/archives/wa.cgi?A2=ind0008A&L=chi-web&P=R2261&m=3570].
- 16:16:51 [chumpster]
- commented item H
- 16:16:55 [sbp]
- Is that a rhetorical question?
- 16:17:00 [sbp]
- H:
- 16:17:01 [Morbus]
- no.
- 16:17:04 [sbp]
- H::
- 16:17:05 [chumpster]
- http://www.uiweb.com/other/chiweb.htm
- 16:17:06 [chumpster]
- Best of CHI-WEB - UIWEB.COM
- 16:17:07 [chumpster]
- (Morbus) "Using the chi-web searchable archive, I've compiled a list of the summary postings from useful threads, and a few personally selected favorite postings (I'd do compile the same for sigia-l if there was a reliable archive). Please note: my list below is not an exhaustive list of summary postings. Also, these summaries are collections of contributing posts: they are a mixture of opinions and commentary, with some references to reports, usa
- 16:17:07 [chumpster]
- (Morbus) Funny posting found from this site: "http://www.magicpub.com/netprimer/acronyms.html is relatively short and
- 16:17:08 [chumpster]
- (Morbus) plays an annoying recording of Tigger in Winnie the Pooh saying "TTFN Ta Ta For Now" over and over again (don't ask how I recognize the source<g>).
- 16:17:10 [chumpster]
- (Morbus) More interesting bits: "Although Internet users frequently complain about receiving unsolicited email advertisements, 14 percent of consumers in an Ernst & Young survey said they will actually go to a site listed in a spam email. While it is not clear whether it is out of anger or interest, users click on email advertisements 3 to 10 times more often than they click on banners. " ) "
- 16:17:15 [chumpster]
- (Morbus) Another good post, based on [web forms|http://www.listserv.acm.org/archives/wa.cgi?A2=ind0008A&L=chi-web&P=R2261&m=3570].
- 16:17:49 [sbp]
- well, that was a lot
- 16:17:58 [Morbus]
- :)
- 16:18:21 [sbp]
- * sbp is eating at the moment...
- 16:18:27 [Morbus]
- whatcha eating?
- 16:18:49 [sbp]
- lovely bacon sandwich
- 16:18:59 [Morbus]
- OOh. bacon sounds good.
- 16:20:11 [sbp]
- I like food
- 16:20:23 [Morbus]
- heh. i like food, but i don't like eating.
- 16:20:31 [sbp]
- heh, heh
- 16:20:35 [Morbus]
- eating is so unproductive for me. i have to have a magazine in front of me, or a book, or a tv. or something.
- 16:20:40 [Morbus]
- otherwise, i feel like i'm wasting my time.
- 16:20:55 [sbp]
- yeah, I know how you feel - I do exactly the same
- 16:21:05 [Morbus]
- at home, my computer desk has a food corner. when i'm alone, i eat all my meals and crap in front of the comp with one hand.
- 16:21:14 [sbp]
- heh, heh
- 16:22:44 [sbp]
- does your boss mind you being on IRC at work?
- 16:22:52 [sbp]
- ooh, ooh, Geminids tonight...
- 16:22:56 [Morbus]
- Geminids?
- 16:23:06 [sbp]
- yeah, meteor shower
- 16:23:07 [Morbus]
- i don't know, actually
- 16:23:15 [Morbus]
- he knows i have IM.
- 16:23:25 [Morbus]
- and IRC is just a more static form of IM, I guess.
- 16:23:36 [sbp]
- heh, well... about the same
- 16:23:44 [Morbus]
- heh, i'm trying to rationalize his disapproval, i think ;)
- 16:23:51 [sbp]
- :-)
- 16:27:20 [sbp]
- WOL is certainly coming along leaps and bounds
- 16:27:25 [sbp]
- .google RDF WOL
- 16:27:26 [xena]
- RDF WOL: http://www.freshmeat.net/today
- 16:29:44 [sbp]
- or SWOL
- 16:29:48 [sbp]
- .google RDF SWOL
- 16:29:48 [xena]
- RDF SWOL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001Jan/0091.html
- 16:33:02 [sbp]
- or whatever they're going to call it
- 16:33:20 [Morbus]
- you know, i never did finish reading that sw/rdf stuff.
- 16:36:13 [sbp]
- * sbp wonders how much Y50M is in PS
- 16:36:37 [sbp]
- logster, grep \.convert
- 16:37:32 [logster]
- I'm logging. I found 1 answer for '\.convert'
- 16:37:33 [logster]
- 0) 2001-12-14 16:36:37 <sbp> logster, grep \.convert
- 16:37:58 [sbp]
- logster, grep \.change
- 16:38:14 [logster]
- I'm logging. I found 6 answers for '\.change' (showing 0...4)
- 16:38:15 [logster]
- 0) 2001-12-14 16:37:58 <sbp> logster, grep \.change
- 16:38:16 [logster]
- 1) 2001-12-04 01:03:29 <AaronSw> .change 400 cnd to usd
- 16:38:17 [logster]
- 2) 2001-12-04 01:03:21 <AaronSw> .change 400 cdn to usd
- 16:38:18 [logster]
- 3) 2001-12-04 01:03:16 <AaronSw> .change 400 can to usd
- 16:38:19 [logster]
- 4) 2001-11-22 04:27:14 <sbp> .change 100 jpy to gbp
- 16:38:33 [sbp]
- .change 50000000 jpy to gbp
- 16:38:34 [xena]
- 50,000,000.00 (Japan Yen (JPY)) makes 270,007.41 (United Kingdom Pounds (GBP))
- 16:38:44 [sbp]
- pretty neat
- 16:38:49 [AaronSw]
- hi
- 16:38:58 [sbp]
- aaaaargh!
- 16:39:00 [sbp]
- Hi
- 16:39:02 [Morbus]
- hehe.
- 16:39:03 [sbp]
- :-)
- 16:39:11 [Morbus]
- i see how it is. AaronSw says hi to sbp, but not to me.
- 16:39:16 [sbp]
- lol
- 16:39:23 [AaronSw]
- bye morbus
- 16:39:26 [Morbus]
- see!
- 16:39:31 [Morbus]
- now he's gonna kick me or something.
- 16:39:44 [Morbus]
- he's signing me off, condemning me early, persecuting me.
- 16:39:45 [AaronSw]
- Oh, i thought you were leaving.
- 16:39:55 [Morbus]
- where ever would I be going, dear AaronSw?
- 16:39:58 [AaronSw]
- Be careful about that step down from the door.
- 16:40:05 [AaronSw]
- The Great Outside?
- 16:40:13 [Morbus]
- no! the day star is much too bright.
- 16:43:33 [AaronSw]
- sbp, what does it mean for there to be "Y50M is in PS"
- 16:43:38 [AaronSw]
- .acronym y50m
- 16:43:39 [xena]
- y50m:
- 16:44:18 [AaronSw]
- I need someone to send me a book to read on the weekend. Hmm
- 16:44:28 [Morbus]
- what kinda book?
- 16:44:34 [Morbus]
- pdf printout alright?
- 16:45:07 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, sure.
- 16:45:15 [AaronSw]
- Anything interesting. There's a list on my Amazon wishlist.
- 16:45:22 [AaronSw]
- Just need to get it here by tonight.
- 16:45:26 [AaronSw]
- well, tomorrow morning
- 16:45:33 [Morbus]
- heh. i don't think that will work.
- 16:46:18 [AaronSw]
- Pfft.
- 16:46:29 [Morbus]
- http://www.rider.edu/users/suler/psycyber/psycyber.html
- 16:46:57 [Morbus]
- http://www.rider.edu/users/suler/psycyber/psycyber.html
- 16:47:00 [Morbus]
- dammit
- 16:47:02 [AaronSw]
- Hmm.
- 16:48:36 [Morbus]
- lol: "Did they *really* have to list you as "Kevin Hemenway?" We don't trust that
- 16:48:36 [Morbus]
- guy. We *will*, however, buy books from Morbus. Any day."
- 16:48:39 [Morbus]
- concerning the apache article.
- 16:48:49 [AaronSw]
- Who said that?
- 16:48:57 [Morbus]
- my good friend from spyonit.com
- 16:49:03 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh.
- 16:49:23 [AaronSw]
- Wait a sec, I thought he sucked...
- 16:49:32 [Morbus]
- what?
- 16:49:44 [AaronSw]
- Didn't SpyOnIt get bought out or something?
- 16:50:21 [Morbus]
- yeah, they got bought out by 747, i think, which gutted them and ruined everything that was good.
- 16:50:29 [Morbus]
- but this is one of the guys who originally made spyonti.
- 16:50:33 [Morbus]
- we still keep in touch.
- 16:50:33 [AaronSw]
- aha
- 16:50:49 [Morbus]
- he still works for them too. its been regeared toward corporate crap, not end users anymore.
- 16:51:54 [kmacleod]
- kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack
- 16:52:05 [AaronSw]
- hey kenm
- 16:52:15 [sbp]
- Y50M in PS - 50 million Yen in Pounds Sterling. Quite obvious really
- 16:52:18 [kmacleod]
- it's scaring me -- I might actually like .Net/Hailstorm
- 16:52:27 [AaronSw]
- Aaaah!
- 16:52:32 [Morbus]
- hey ke... whoa, nevermind!
- 16:52:41 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh.
- 16:52:46 [kmacleod]
- I've been been beating the "data not code" drum for a long time
- 16:52:56 [AaronSw]
- But then it turns out their data is code.
- 16:52:59 [AaronSw]
- It's so confusing.
- 16:53:46 [sbp]
- * sbp is watching for meteors...
- 16:53:59 [kmacleod]
- I'm about six pages into the churned item on .net magazine
- 16:54:01 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw is disappointed that it's too cloudy here to watch for meteors.
- 16:54:01 [Morbus]
- * Morbus puts his hat on.
- 16:54:02 [GabeW]
- GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack
- 16:54:13 [sbp]
- Aaaaargh!
- 16:54:17 [sbp]
- I mean, hi Gabe
- 16:54:28 [AaronSw]
- kmacleod, read a little more... it gets more confusing...
- 16:54:48 [kmacleod]
- it's too bad they're DOM centric, that's too low. :)
- 16:54:58 [sbp]
- wow, it's getting quite busy in here
- 16:55:02 [sbp]
- * sbp ducks out
- 16:55:10 [Morbus]
- you come back here, sbp!
- 16:55:27 [sbp]
- * sbp playing "Tangled Up In Blue"
- 16:55:34 [GabeW]
- hi
- 16:55:40 [Morbus]
- hey Gabe.
- 16:55:50 [GabeW]
- xml 1.1
- 16:56:30 [GabeW]
- xml gets international and ibm mainframe compatible -- yeehaw, I guess.
- 16:56:47 [AaronSw]
- more like, uh oh.
- 16:57:08 [AaronSw]
- Man, I like this: "Everything that is not forbidden is permitted in XML 1.1 names."
- 16:57:20 [GabeW]
- yeah, that seemed a little scary
- 16:57:36 [Morbus]
- ok. this is scary.
- 16:57:44 [Morbus]
- i just had a big image conceptualization with my coworker.
- 16:57:46 [Morbus]
- http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/usability/library/us-launch/
- 16:57:50 [Morbus]
- check out figure 3 on this page.
- 16:57:56 [Morbus]
- and starting from the middle.
- 16:58:09 [Morbus]
- "so, if a baby doesn't have any control, then you have to bring them to the changing table".
- 16:58:20 [Morbus]
- "where you capture a log of fecalness".
- 16:58:29 [Morbus]
- "this then goes into the round shaped object that looks like a trashcan".
- 16:58:33 [Morbus]
- sigh.
- 16:58:46 [kmacleod]
- hmm, it sounds like XML TupleSpaces
- 16:58:49 [GabeW]
- babies don't usually put out logs
- 16:59:06 [Morbus]
- i know. but you know.
- 16:59:09 [AaronSw]
- more than we needed to know, Morbus...
- 17:01:13 [kmacleod]
- wow, STDWIN, hadn't heard of that one in a while... (reading the 1st Python post chumped)
- 17:01:59 [AaronSw]
- The red blue stuff in Hailstorm sounds pretty weird.
- 17:02:14 [sbp]
- "She dropped a coin into the cup"...
- 17:02:42 [sbp]
- A, I think something's up with your server again
- 17:02:48 [AaronSw]
- I noticed.
- 17:03:04 [AaronSw]
- I must admit I have absolutely no idea why it does this.
- 17:03:14 [Morbus]
- tripwire every hour?
- 17:03:15 [Morbus]
- <g>
- 17:03:21 [AaronSw]
- no, it's the webserver.
- 17:03:27 [AaronSw]
- I think it might be choking on the XSLT.
- 17:04:31 [Morbus]
- heh: "Installation: I'll guess you've untarred it already ;-) if you haven't or don't know how, you have no damn right to be running an ISP. "
- 17:04:43 [AaronSw]
- Heh.
- 17:04:53 [sbp]
- heh, heh
- 17:05:47 [kmacleod]
- the red/blue wasn't really clear how it was being used, whether it was on a "chunk" (node) or "attribute" (property) basis. article says "red and blue *nodes*" (emphasis mine), but they may mean "node" in the sense that all values are nodes.
- 17:06:07 [AaronSw]
- Yeah, I think they do.
- 17:06:17 [sbp]
- @ http://www1m.mesh.ne.jp/jstf/e_2002_1_1.htm
- 17:06:19 [AaronSw]
- It seems like they're making allowances for a really bad database.
- 17:06:23 [chumpster]
- I: 2002ŒvŽZ from sbp
- 17:06:42 [kmacleod]
- not really, just coloring which items are formally indexed and which aren't ;)
- 17:06:42 [sbp]
- I:|Laureates for the 2002 Japan Award
- 17:06:43 [chumpster]
- titled item I
- 17:07:01 [kmacleod]
- or, which are formally exposed and which aren't
- 17:07:13 [sbp]
- I:This year's Computing and Computational Science and Engineering: Tim Berners-Lee
- 17:07:21 [lilo]
- [Global Notice] Hi all. This is a semi-automated reminder. We are approaching our next release upgrade, to 1.0.31, a bug fix release. Please take some time today and through the weekend to use the test bed extensively. It's on irc.openprojects.net, port 9001. Use the channels, have conversations, do everything you do here only more so. It'll help ensure a smooth upgrade. bugs@openprojects.net for problems. This message will repeat. Thanks!
- 17:08:06 [kmacleod]
- but the fact that it's a TupleSpace-like system is the real kicker.
- 17:09:15 [sbp]
- heh, he got an OBE too
- 17:09:17 [kmacleod]
- I've also been picking up that C#/CLI is a flexible node/attribute system as well...
- 17:10:03 [kmacleod]
- truly scary. I can't recall the last time MS did something right, so I'll continue looking for the Achilles... ;)
- 17:10:10 [AaronSw]
- Heh.
- 17:10:26 [sbp]
- Aaron, your server's really screwed...
- 17:10:29 [sbp]
- Gotta run
- 17:10:30 [sbp]
- sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
- 17:10:31 [AaronSw]
- shut up
- 17:10:33 [AaronSw]
- :-)
- 17:10:50 [AaronSw]
- dis and run, eh?
- 17:11:08 [Morbus]
- 'pparently.
- 17:14:30 [kmacleod]
- anybody know where I can get a Unix-centric view of C#/.net? a positive one, that is ;)
- 17:14:47 [AaronSw]
- Heh. That'll be hard to find. I assume you've looked at the Mono stuff?
- 17:15:06 [kmacleod]
- (with apologies to Windows folks who think they know how to write code)
- 17:15:22 [Morbus]
- http://www.opdebeeck.com/caricaturessketchesb.html
- 17:15:45 [AaronSw]
- kmacleod, http://go-mono.net/ seems to have some useful links...
- 17:16:01 [kmacleod]
- just got ther ;) linked off of wmf's site
- 17:16:41 [Morbus]
- heh! http://www.opdebeeck.com/afbeeldingen/karikatuurschetsen/large/torvalds.jpg
- 17:19:02 [Morbus]
- http://www.opdebeeck.com/afbeeldingen/karikatuurschetsen/large/jobssteve.jpg
- 17:19:05 [kmacleod]
- hmm, .../rationale.html comes just short of saying "CORBA sucks, dynamic runtimes rule"
- 17:19:33 [Morbus]
- http://www.opdebeeck.com/afbeeldingen/karikatuurschetsen/large/gatesbill.jpg
- 17:20:40 [kmacleod]
- I should have been running a weblog, so I could point back confidentally and say, "that's what I was talking about" ;)
- 17:22:28 [AaronSw]
- Heh. Do you have a weblog these days?
- 17:24:01 [kmacleod]
- no, not a personal one. I only just found software to my liking ;) (ie. trivial, usable, and easily extendible)
- 17:24:13 [kmacleod]
- based on a wiki, no less
- 17:24:30 [AaronSw]
- Ooh, what is it?
- 17:25:41 [Morbus]
- i love movable type.
- 17:25:47 [kmacleod]
- QuickiWiki, from The Wiki Way book (wiki.org). about 600 lines of Perl, after you move the redundant stuff in the seperate .cgis into a common module
- 17:26:04 [kmacleod]
- PRTnews.com uses it
- 17:26:32 [Morbus]
- its all perl, kmacleod? or do you need a base Wiki install?
- 17:27:18 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw adds caching to the Swhack Weblog, hopes this helps some of the server troubles
- 17:27:27 [kmacleod]
- QuickiWiki is in Perl, and I created an index.cgi that does the weblog-style front page
- 17:27:39 [Morbus]
- huh. i'll have to check it out.
- 17:28:20 [AaronSw]
- I like Vanilla, myself.
- 17:28:33 [kmacleod]
- basically, all the editing is Wiki. The frontpage is made by looking for wiki pages with the right name
- 17:28:52 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m937-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 17:28:56 [AaronSw]
- And it just grabs the first two paragraphs?
- 17:28:58 [kmacleod]
- 20011214-WhooHoo
- 17:29:22 [kmacleod]
- name-pattern, that is.
- 17:34:03 [AaronSw]
- Hmm, wes is running an open relay
- 17:34:12 [Morbus]
- are you serious?
- 17:34:36 [Morbus]
- that's no good.
- 17:34:49 [kmacleod]
- according to ORDB ;)
- 17:34:58 [AaronSw]
- No, i just tested it with abuse.net
- 17:35:00 [Morbus]
- heh. i only sub to spamcop, actually.
- 17:35:10 [Morbus]
- i used ordb for a while, but it wasn't catching that many.
- 17:35:11 [AaronSw]
- If you do a MAIL FROM: <spammers@felter.org> it lets it thru.
- 17:35:13 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw emails wmf
- 17:35:32 [kmacleod]
- hmm, I wonder how old his RedHat system is, new ones shouldn't be open
- 17:35:45 [kmacleod]
- older ones were misconfigured
- 17:35:54 [Morbus]
- anyone got an email from him recently? could check the headers.
- 17:36:00 [Morbus]
- if its sendmail, it spits out the ver.
- 17:36:27 [Morbus]
- ex: server.totalnetnh.net (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5)
- 17:36:33 [AaronSw]
- Received: from www.abuse.net (www.abuse.net [208.31.42.77])
- 17:36:33 [AaronSw]
- by valentine.felter.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09432
- 17:36:33 [AaronSw]
- for <aswartz@upclink.com>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:44:26 -0600
- 17:36:46 [Morbus]
- that sounds like a rh5.0..
- 17:37:55 [AaronSw]
- My post: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6638
- 17:39:09 [Morbus]
- mmhmm.
- 17:39:16 [Morbus]
- oooh. time for lunch.
- 17:40:21 [Morbus]
- bb30ets
- 17:40:28 [Morbus]
- s/ts/st/
- 17:48:20 [AaronSw]
- I still don't understand why open relays are so bad...
- 17:48:21 [em]
- * em looks for mnot... not surprized not to find him
- 17:48:58 [em]
- anyone have a pointer to his schema anotation work/ideas?
- 17:49:11 [AaronSw]
- .google mnot schema annotation
- 17:49:12 [xena]
- mnot schema annotation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001Oct/0016.html
- 17:50:26 [kmacleod]
- hehe, Vanilla is in rebol
- 17:50:44 [AaronSw]
- Yeah. :)
- 17:51:27 [AaronSw]
- What port is SMTP on?
- 17:51:44 [kmacleod]
- 25
- 17:51:44 [em]
- thanks AaronSw, xena :)
- 17:51:48 [AaronSw]
- :)
- 17:51:49 [AaronSw]
- thanks ken
- 17:53:28 [kmacleod]
- Orchard and C#/.net looks like they would be a good fit. thus the reason I could warm to them ;)
- 17:55:03 [AaronSw]
- Hmm, wes was too quick for me. Looks like he upgraded his sendmail and fixed it.
- 17:55:46 [sbp]
- heh, heh
- 17:56:27 [AaronSw]
- I was going to send "All your relay are belong to us" to his phone.
- 17:56:43 [sbp]
- :-)
- 17:56:45 [sbp]
- Gotta run
- 17:56:50 [kmacleod]
- vanilla looks pretty cool
- 17:56:51 [AaronSw]
- c'ya
- 17:57:19 [Morbus]
- hmm.
- 17:57:55 [Morbus]
- segue. Looks like a PHP piece might be the way to go. Do you want to start
- 17:57:55 [Morbus]
- working on an outline? "
- 17:58:01 [Morbus]
- sigh. i hate this irc program.
- 17:58:14 [AaronSw]
- Heh.
- 17:58:56 [kmacleod]
- eww, it uses ugly query strings for ietms
- 17:59:01 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
- 17:59:04 [kmacleod]
- s/ietms/items/
- 17:59:09 [AaronSw]
- It does/
- 17:59:15 [AaronSw]
- huh?
- 18:02:18 [AaronSw]
- http://www.langreiter.com/space/2001-12-13 doesn't look like a query string...
- 18:06:36 [kmacleod]
- hmm, http://www.michi.tv/vanilla.r?selector=display&snip=comments-2001-12-13
- 18:07:18 [kmacleod]
- gotta run. lunch.
- 18:07:22 [AaronSw]
- c'ya
- 18:07:23 [kmacleod]
- kmacleod has quit ("ttyl")
- 18:08:18 [AaronSw]
- Heh, look at who has the top spot for O
- 18:08:21 [AaronSw]
- .google O
- 18:08:22 [xena]
- O: http://www.oreilly.com
- 18:16:51 [GabeW]
- the more intersting would be the top spot for X, wouldn't it?
- 18:16:52 [GabeW]
- .google X
- 18:16:53 [xena]
- X: http://home.netscape.com
- 18:17:10 [AaronSw]
- You think it might go to X.com
- 18:17:49 [GabeW]
- X.com was sold to paypal, IIRC, by a guy I used to work for
- 18:18:03 [AaronSw]
- i thought paypal was sold to x.com
- 18:18:12 [AaronSw]
- hmm
- 18:18:17 [GabeW]
- the domain was sold to the company who bought paypal maybe
- 18:18:26 [AaronSw]
- ah
- 18:18:31 [GabeW]
- I don't know the details
- 18:18:52 [AaronSw]
- for a while paypal.com redirected to paypal.x.com, which I thought was just about the stupidest thing they could do, especially since it was just after this paypal.ru scam
- 18:19:30 [GabeW]
- makes it sound like a pr0n payment service
- 18:19:57 [AaronSw]
- heh
- 18:26:33 [GabeW]
- the pr0n industry owns the letter x
- 18:28:46 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m95-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 18:29:14 [AaronSw]
- I don't think the Unicorn puzzle is a problem.
- 18:29:54 [sbp]
- Puzzle?
- 18:29:59 [AaronSw]
- i.e. http://rdfweb.org/people/danbri/2001/12/puzzle/unicorny.html
- 18:49:00 [Morbus]
- heh.
- 18:49:06 [Morbus]
- my article was just mentioned in ApacheWeek today.
- 18:49:19 [Morbus]
- I told Derrick. He comes back with "I know you've published a lot before, but this is fun, isn't it?".
- 18:49:32 [Morbus]
- my response: "Yer goddamn right it is! <G>. I keep saying to myself: "Ok. First I just wrote something for ORA. That's damn cool". And then I say "Wait, wait, OK, Apple linked to it too".
- 18:49:32 [Morbus]
-
- 18:49:32 [Morbus]
- It's just a whole different buzz than the other times :)
- 18:49:50 [AaronSw]
- Heh.
- 18:50:23 [AaronSw]
- I can see the headlines now: O'Reilly Makes Morbus Iff a Super-Author
- 18:50:39 [Morbus]
- heh :)
- 18:50:41 [sbp]
- BLURB:O'Reilly Makes Morbus Iff a Super-Author
- 18:50:44 [chumpster]
- J: O'Reilly Makes Morbus Iff a Super-Author from sbp
- 18:50:50 [sbp]
- J:An #swhack exclusive!
- 18:51:02 [sbp]
- J::An #swhack exclusive!
- 18:51:04 [chumpster]
- commented item J
- 18:51:09 [Morbus]
- yay!
- 18:51:53 [Morbus]
- lunch was good. want home now.
- 18:52:07 [AaronSw]
- J::What's that on [Apple's Website|http://developer.apple.com/internet/]? It's a CEO! It's a Webmonkey! No, wait... it's Morbus Iff!
- 18:52:08 [chumpster]
- commented item J
- 18:52:11 [sbp]
- J::cf. [http://oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2001/12/07/apache.html|O'Reilly Network: Apache Web-Serving with Mac OS X: Part 1 [Dec. 07, 2001]]
- 18:52:12 [chumpster]
- commented item J
- 18:52:50 [Morbus]
- J::And I have everything to owe to AaronSw. Without his saying hi to Derrick at P2Pcon, I would have been a nobody!
- 18:52:51 [chumpster]
- commented item J
- 18:53:02 [AaronSw]
- Exactly. :-)
- 18:53:06 [Morbus]
- :)
- 18:53:08 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh.
- 18:53:34 [Morbus]
- i'm gonna send this to derrick ;)
- 18:54:40 [sbp]
- send what?
- 18:55:09 [sbp]
- I::This year's Computing and Computational Science and Engineering: Tim Berners-Lee
- 18:55:10 [chumpster]
- commented item I
- 18:56:02 [GabeW]
- I had a friend growing up who's last name was Hemenway - is that a common last name?
- 18:56:18 [Morbus]
- not around here. around here it's hemingway.
- 18:56:25 [AaronSw]
- Was his first name Morbus? 'cuz that's not a common first name...
- 18:56:28 [GabeW]
- where is "here"?
- 18:56:32 [Morbus]
- concord, nh.
- 18:56:34 [GabeW]
- she
- 18:56:40 [AaronSw]
- Internet finds 37,100 Hemenway websites.
- 18:56:43 [AaronSw]
- Err Google
- 18:56:45 [GabeW]
- you don't have any relatives in San Francisco?
- 18:56:49 [sbp]
- wow, loads
- 18:56:51 [Morbus]
- pft, not that i know of.
- 18:57:00 [Morbus]
- there's a ceo in alaska who's name is kevin hemenway too.
- 18:57:06 [sbp]
- heh, neat
- 18:57:10 [Morbus]
- GabeW - i've pretty much disassociated myself with my family.
- 18:57:30 [Morbus]
- my mom kicked me outta the house so she could collect welfare payments, and my sister has got to be the stupidest and most poser-like person i know.
- 18:57:32 [AaronSw]
- Wow, there's 196,000 Swartzs...
- 18:57:43 [sbp]
- Gotta run
- 18:57:44 [Morbus]
- my dad died a few years ago, and all i cared about was that his tv was black and white.
- 18:58:32 [GabeW]
- * GabeW has a b&w tv until about 2-3 years ago
- 18:58:56 [Morbus]
- he died when i must've been like 15 or 16, i think. i used to watch tv then.
- 18:59:00 [Morbus]
- i rarely touch the thing now.
- 18:59:05 [Morbus]
- unless its to turn on the ps2 ;)
- 18:59:30 [AaronSw]
- @ http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/14/technology/circuits/14CYBERLAW.html?pagewanted=print
- 18:59:35 [chumpster]
- K: Sign In or Register at NYTimes.com from AaronSw
- 18:59:43 [Morbus]
- you get a reg on that, AaronSw?
- 18:59:48 [AaronSw]
- Yeah.
- 18:59:56 [AaronSw]
- K:|Experts Say Decision Could Undermine Online Journalists
- 18:59:58 [chumpster]
- titled item K
- 19:00:29 [GabeW]
- yeah, cyberlaw is not going well these days, but I was assured by someone who has been in the cyberlaw arena for a lnog time that these things go in cycles
- 19:00:33 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
- 19:00:39 [AaronSw]
- K::"Rather, the court said, a hyperlink contains a speech component and an additional 'nonspeech' component -- some computer code -- that has the functional capacity to bring the content of the linked Web page to the user's computer screen at the click of a mouse."
- 19:00:41 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:00:50 [AaronSw]
- K::Wow, that's incredibly misguided. There's no computer code in links.
- 19:00:52 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:01:11 [AaronSw]
- K::There's just a bit of syntax that says effectively "there's a link here". The browsers choose how to interpret that syntax.
- 19:01:12 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:01:40 [AaronSw]
- K::Currently things like that are implemented rather standardly, but there's no reason a browser could hyperlink every word that started with http:// or something.
- 19:01:43 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:02:40 [deltab]
- K::A number of mail clients and websites do that, in fact
- 19:02:43 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:02:58 [GabeW]
- I wonder if the link was a URN instead of a URL (ie less "code-looking") if the decision would have come out the same way
- 19:03:11 [GabeW]
- But you are right - thats just a dumb interpretation of the facts
- 19:03:27 [AaronSw]
- K::I wonder what the court would say if I came out with a browser that linked every instance of the word "the" to the DeCSS source code?
- 19:03:28 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:04:15 [deltab]
- MSIE is infamous for allowing that to be done :-)
- 19:04:21 [GabeW]
- heheh
- 19:04:27 [GabeW]
- Contributory infringement!
- 19:04:33 [Morbus]
- K::If you need an account to read the article, use cibblog/cibcib - thanks to google, and [Caught In Between|http://caughtinbetween.editthispage.com/]
- 19:05:19 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:07:22 [AaronSw]
- K::link via (the other) [Aaron|http://www.aaronland.net/weblog/archive/3723]
- 19:07:23 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 19:07:55 [AaronSw]
- ugh, i hate aaronland's dual-justified text.
- 19:14:09 [AaronSw]
- The website for my local public library was just redesigned and now screams "Look! I finally figured out how to use Frontpage!"
- 19:21:03 [AaronSw]
- Wow, my local library has Joel Spolsky's book.
- 19:29:51 [GabeW]
- GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")
- 19:31:32 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw wanders off
- 19:33:58 [Morbus]
- lol @ fpage
- 19:34:13 [Morbus]
- my library has rosenfield's IA book.
- 19:46:30 [Morbus]
- whooo!
- 19:46:33 [Morbus]
- hey, aaron, you around?
- 19:50:04 [tav`]
- tav` has quit ("Hakuna Matata")
- 20:03:38 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m802-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 20:04:28 [sbp]
- lol @ 17:10:50 <AaronSw> dis and run, eh?
- 20:04:51 [sbp]
- no, I actually had to go, and wanted to follow that up... the server's working now, so that's some consolation, I guess
- 20:05:44 [Morbus]
- sure, sure, sure.
- 20:08:09 [Morbus]
- how areyou sbp?
- 20:09:43 [em]
- * em reads http://www.w3.org/2001/09/rdfprimer/PrimerIntroduction , and encourages sbp to write more :)
- 20:11:27 [sbp]
- K::This is really scary - a blatant misguided attack against a component of Web technology which has clearly been misunderstood, an impingement on a basic constitutionally protected civil liberty (freedom of speech), and a terrible moral decision in general. A court has *no* right to say what one can or cannot link to, just as it cannot arbiter over what words I may or may not use in everyday speech
- 20:11:29 [chumpster]
- commented item K
- 20:11:50 [sbp]
- heh, thanks em. It needs cleaning up a bit - some spelling errors, etc., but in general, is it O.K.?
- 20:13:12 [sbp]
- I'm fine, thanks, Morbus
- 20:14:07 [em]
- em has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
- 20:14:08 [Morbus]
- ok. this is annoying.
- 20:14:17 [Morbus]
- hey, sbp, is christmas synonomous with "the holidays"?
- 20:14:45 [sbp]
- er... not in general
- 20:15:09 [sbp]
- "the holidays" could refer to any holiday period, or the next holiday period
- 20:15:22 [sbp]
- and it changes from culture to culture
- 20:16:59 [Morbus]
- right, exactly.
- 20:17:20 [Morbus]
- well, i just heard some fuck outside in the hall get all pissed that someone said merry xmas to him.
- 20:17:48 [sbp]
- heh, really?
- 20:19:35 [Morbus]
- yeah, he was like ripping the guy a new asshole, becuase he didn't use the p.c. "happy holidays".
- 20:19:43 [sbp]
- he he he
- 20:20:01 [Morbus]
- jesus christ, i like pepsi, but i don't get pissed off if some one offers me a coke. its a generic fucking thing.
- 20:20:39 [Morbus]
- of course, i could be talking out my ass, and being the rude one too.
- 20:20:44 [Morbus]
- wish AaronSw was around.
- 20:20:48 [Morbus]
- get his perspective.
- 20:20:57 [Morbus]
- plus i have to tell him what derrick said regarding the chump
- 20:21:36 [sbp]
- no, I think you're right. When you think about about, you're not saying, "convert to Christianity! dirty heathen!", you're saying "have a nice day on the 25th of December - I call it Christmas, please respect my culture"
- 20:21:52 [sbp]
- s/about about/about it/
- 20:21:54 [Morbus]
- right!
- 20:22:31 [Morbus]
- i mean, if someone said cheerful channakah or happy hannukah, i'd be like "hey, cool, thanks!" - cos i know they're just wishing me happy spirits, not a moil's edict.
- 20:22:45 [sbp]
- yeah, absolutely
- 20:23:35 [Morbus]
- flippin people are too uptight. its the lawyers, i tell ya.
- 20:23:40 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh
- 20:24:02 [sbp]
- that's it - blame the lawyers
- 20:24:10 [Morbus]
- its true!
- 20:24:17 [sbp]
- actually, that's probably the worst thing to do - they're the most likely to sue ya
- 20:24:50 [Morbus]
- if we didn't give them license (heh!) to make such big deals about this crap "eewww, you're fat!", "no, i'm not! waaaahhhh!", we wouldn't be so concerned about what peopel are syaing, but rather what they mean.
- 20:25:03 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw returns from library with a new library card
- 20:25:31 [sbp]
- Merry Christmas and Happy Hannukah, Aaron :-)
- 20:25:44 [AaronSw]
- well f*** you too!
- 20:25:49 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh
- 20:26:08 [Morbus]
- lol.
- 20:26:10 [sbp]
- in fact, that deserves a lol
- 20:26:46 [Morbus]
- so what do you think of all this AaronSw?
- 20:26:56 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw is about to read the logs
- 20:27:26 [AaronSw]
- Oh, I see you were just talking about this...
- 20:27:36 [Morbus]
- yah.
- 20:27:41 [AaronSw]
- Hmm, I was actually thinking about this today.
- 20:27:41 [sbp]
- Uh huh
- 20:27:45 [AaronSw]
- Or maybe it was yesterday.
- 20:27:53 [Morbus]
- [[[ "Weight-control specialist Christopher Still, MD, says the
- 20:27:53 [Morbus]
- three Ns - Nickelodeon, Netscape, and Nintendo - are
- 20:27:53 [Morbus]
- playing a large role in the obesity epidemic among children."
- 20:27:53 [Morbus]
- ...MSN's health site plants some intriguing subliminal branding
- 20:27:54 [Morbus]
- ]]]
- 20:27:57 [Morbus]
- wtf?!
- 20:28:02 [Morbus]
- die, you craptacular irc program! die!
- 20:28:05 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh.
- 20:28:05 [sbp]
- lol
- 20:28:20 [AaronSw]
- URL for that?
- 20:28:29 [Morbus]
- http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/3606.1052
- 20:28:35 [sbp]
- URL? URL??? URL?!?!?!
- 20:28:44 [Morbus]
- from the newest ntk.net
- 20:30:04 [sbp]
- * sbp is (once again) playing "Fool In The Rain"
- 20:30:19 [Morbus]
- so, AaronSw, got an email back from derrick on that chump ;)
- 20:30:36 [Morbus]
- i'm upset to have to say this. sigh.
- 20:30:42 [Morbus]
- he, uh, he "spoke" of you, i guess.
- 20:30:55 [Morbus]
- although, he was very brief. almost like he didn't want to think about it.
- 20:31:00 [sbp]
- what chump?
- 20:31:10 [Morbus]
- the Morbus Iff Super Writer thing
- 20:31:24 [sbp]
- Ah
- 20:31:26 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh, what'd he say.
- 20:31:31 [Morbus]
- are you ready for it?
- 20:31:34 [sbp]
- go on!
- 20:31:35 [AaronSw]
- Yeah.
- 20:31:39 [Morbus]
- ok.
- 20:31:42 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw takes a deep breath
- 20:31:45 [sbp]
- we'll add it to the cump
- 20:31:46 [Morbus]
- but if i ruin your holiday, don't blame me.
- 20:31:49 [sbp]
- er... chump
- 20:31:51 [Morbus]
- "<g> that's good stuff -- I didn't realize you knew Aaron. He's cool."
- 20:31:54 [AaronSw]
- No, no, I can't take it!
- 20:32:07 [AaronSw]
- Oh, phew. that wasn't so bad.
- 20:32:11 [AaronSw]
- He uses <g> too?
- 20:32:13 [AaronSw]
- Uh oh.
- 20:32:16 [Morbus]
- yeah, but *two* words!
- 20:32:26 [Morbus]
- he only dedicated two words to his personality diagnosis of you!
- 20:32:29 [Morbus]
- that's prety damn pathetic.
- 20:32:31 [AaronSw]
- Heh.
- 20:32:32 [Morbus]
- you're not sucking up enough ;)
- 20:33:18 [AaronSw]
- AaronSw is now known as Derrick
- 20:33:33 [Derrick]
- J::<g> that's good stuff -- I didn't realize you knew Aaron. He's cool.
- 20:33:34 [chumpster]
- commented item J
- 20:33:37 [Derrick]
- Derrick is now known as AaronSw
- 20:33:42 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh
- 20:33:44 [Morbus]
- :)
- 20:34:14 [sbp]
- we're on quite a roll today
- 20:34:24 [Morbus]
- must ... get ... to .. Z!
- 20:34:56 [AaronSw]
- No, AA!
- 20:35:10 [Morbus]
- i don't drink.
- 20:35:28 [Morbus]
- wine! no, blood!
- 20:35:32 [AaronSw]
- Arch-bloggers, not Alcoholics.
- 20:35:36 [Morbus]
- dammit. lugosi, where are you when i need you!
- 20:35:54 [AaronSw]
- Emeril Lugosi? ;-)
- 20:35:58 [Morbus]
- lol!
- 20:36:02 [Morbus]
- BAM!
- 20:36:19 [AaronSw]
- heh heh heh
- 20:37:06 [Morbus]
- lol...
- 20:37:08 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m3-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com)))
- 20:37:12 [Morbus]
- "And surely no-one would think of
- 20:37:12 [Morbus]
- posting to alt.support.herpes under their *own names*? Think
- 20:37:12 [Morbus]
- we're giving links? Come on - it's the triumphant return of
- 20:37:12 [Morbus]
- the USENET scavenger hunt!"
- 20:37:21 [Morbus]
- * Morbus grumbles.
- 20:37:24 [sbp]
- sbp (~sean@m3-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
- 20:37:28 [Morbus]
- talking about tech leaders and their first postings.
- 20:38:20 [Morbus]
- heh: http://www.ntk.net/2001/12/14/dohtim.gif
- 20:38:23 [AaronSw]
- Bill Gates posted to alt.support.herpes?!
- 20:38:31 [Morbus]
- did he?
- 20:38:39 [AaronSw]
- "<Morbus> talking about tech leaders and their first postings."
- 20:38:47 [Morbus]
- oh. sigh.
- 20:39:25 [sbp]
- ah, here's the required reading thing: http://lsdis.cs.uga.edu/SemWebCourse_files/SemWebReading.htm
- 20:39:42 [AaronSw]
- aja
- 20:39:43 [AaronSw]
- err aha
- 20:39:48 [Morbus]
- wow!
- 20:40:00 [Morbus]
- i can buy arnold for only $4.99
- 20:40:03 [Morbus]
- http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=38067
- 20:40:27 [sbp]
- Belkin?
- 20:40:33 [Morbus]
- "male terminator".
- 20:40:38 [AaronSw]
- Hmmph, why do they link to your webpage and not to mine?
- 20:40:39 [sbp]
- heh, heh, heh
- 20:40:57 [Morbus]
- whoa. that's funny.
- 20:41:00 [sbp]
- well, you suck. Why else would they not do it?
- 20:41:07 [sbp]
- then again, your article comes above mine
- 20:41:09 [Morbus]
- one of the rules for spamsassin is "A WHOLE LINE OF YELLING DETECTED"
- 20:41:12 [Morbus]
- http://spamassassin.taint.org/tests.html
- 20:41:19 [AaronSw]
- Did you chump that yet?
- 20:42:56 [Morbus]
- Morbus has left #swhack
- 20:44:15 [Morbus]
- Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
- 20:53:35 [Morbus]
- fraggle rock.
- 20:54:10 [sbp]
- cool chow
- 20:54:14 [sbp]
- er.. show
- 20:54:18 [sbp]
- I do not eat fraggles!
- 20:54:29 [Morbus]
- i saw the smurfs for the first time in a dozen years on the cartoon network last weekend.
- 20:54:32 [AaronSw]
- It's ok, Sean. You can admit it.
- 20:54:32 [Morbus]
- i taped it. it was amazing.
- 20:54:48 [sbp]
- Fraggles are cool
- 20:55:01 [Morbus]
- you may call me childish, but i taped it for "Research". You know. Against Godzilla ;)
- 20:55:02 [sbp]
- .google Fraggle rock
- 20:55:04 [xena]
- Fraggle rock: /url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Cottage/8264/&e=747
- 20:55:11 [sbp]
- erm...
- 20:55:12 [Morbus]
- Smurfs Working Against Godzilla. SWAG <G>
- 20:55:24 [Morbus]
- oh man, that's hilarious.
- 20:55:28 [Morbus]
- imagine a tag team named that?
- 20:55:30 [Morbus]
- heh.
- 20:55:32 [AaronSw]
- Heh heh heh.
- 20:55:35 [Morbus]
- * Morbus scribbles this down.
- 20:55:56 [sbp]
- lol
- 21:04:21 [AaronSw]
- BLURB:Torantero Applies for Stateship
- 21:04:30 [chumpster]
- L: Torantero Applies for Stateship from AaronSw
- 21:04:44 [AaronSw]
- L::A Swhack Exclusive!
- 21:04:46 [chumpster]
- commented item L
- 21:05:26 [AaronSw]
- L::Some skeptics have claimed that the "nation" has applied for stateship only so it can grab the highly-prized all.your.base.are.belong.to.us domain name.
- 21:05:28 [chumpster]
- commented item L
- 21:06:33 [sbp]
- .google torantero
- 21:06:33 [xena]
- no results found.
- 21:24:50 [danbri]
- danbri (~danbri@pc-62-31-92-5-az.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #swhack
- 21:24:51 [em]
- em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has joined #swhack
- 21:25:11 [sbp]
- aaaargh! where'd they come from?
- 21:25:16 [danbri]
- * danbri wanders by to see what all the fuss is about...
- 21:25:28 [AaronSw]
- Hey, it's danbri!
- 21:25:31 [AaronSw]
- hi danbri
- 21:25:31 [sbp]
- and em
- 21:25:41 [sbp]
- * sbp waves to em and DanBri
- 21:25:57 [AaronSw]
- i repeat: it's danbri! ;)
- 21:26:11 [danbri]
- * danbri makes
- 21:26:11 [danbri]
- oops
- 21:26:12 [danbri]
- * danbri waves
- 21:26:17 [AaronSw]
- heh heh heh
- 21:26:21 [sbp]
- fuss: we've been talking about Fraggles, Morbus' new article, free speech, and Stateship
- 21:26:22 [em]
- howdy sbp :)
- 21:26:23 [danbri]
- I've just installed nine GPS-related packages on my Visor...
- 21:26:31 [AaronSw]
- * AaronSw makes all in this directory
- 21:26:40 [AaronSw]
- Ooh, GPS.
- 21:26:47 [danbri]
- looking for something that'll dump annotated waypoints in a fashion I can hack about with...
- 21:26:49 [AaronSw]
- Preparing for your trip into Boston, eh?
- 21:26:58 [AaronSw]
- Have you seen those folks who do art with GPS data?
- 21:27:20 [AaronSw]
- http://www.gpsdrawing.com/gallery.htm
- 21:27:38 [AaronSw]
- Check out our weblog, btw: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/
- 21:27:47 [em]
- * em thinks GPS data is art :)
- 21:28:11 [em]
- some of the space-time GPS tracking is frankly beutiful to look at... :)
- 21:28:31 [sbp]
- wow! neat stuff
- 21:28:54 [AaronSw]
- Heh, this one's cute: http://www.gpsdrawing.com/gallery/zimzam.htm
- 21:32:11 [sbp]
- .beats
- 21:32:11 [xena]
- The time is @940 at the tone.
- 21:33:22 [AaronSw]
- .beats
- 21:33:23 [xena]
- The time is @940 at the tone.
- 21:33:30 [AaronSw]
- well, close enough
- 21:33:54 [sbp]
- mine says 941 too
- 21:34:01 [sbp]
- .beats
- 21:34:02 [xena]
- The time is @941 at the tone.
- 21:34:42 [AaronSw]
- somebody needs to run ntpd, deltab
- 21:34:58 [sbp]
- use "tock"!
- 21:35:06 [AaronSw]
- no, tick!
- 21:35:14 [sbp]
- I don't think you can use tick
- 21:35:26 [AaronSw]
- Are you sure?
- 21:35:59 [sbp]
- yes
- 21:35:59 [sbp]
- [[[
- 21:35:59 [sbp]
- tick.usno.navy.mil
- 21:35:59 [sbp]
- Location: Time Service Dept., U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, DC
- 21:35:59 [sbp]
- Synchronization: NTP V3 primary (USNO Master Clock H-masers)
- 21:35:59 [sbp]
- Access Policy: open access for stratum 2 servers ,others by arrangement
- 21:36:04 [sbp]
- ]]] - http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ntp.html
- 21:36:07 [AaronSw]
- Hmmph.
- 21:36:52 [AaronSw]
- I use ntp2, myself.
- 21:37:36 [sbp]
- A billionth of a second doesn't make much difference when your clock probabl goes off by more than that every second
- 21:37:48 [sbp]
- not to mention the lag over the 'net anway
- 21:37:53 [sbp]
- s/anway/anyway/
- 21:37:59 [AaronSw]
- the ntp protocol is supposed to deal with that somehow
- 21:38:07 [sbp]
- yeah, but not perfectly
- 21:38:32 [AaronSw]
- but mu2 is off by like 30 seconds
- 21:38:37 [AaronSw]
- that's quite a bit
- 21:38:44 [sbp]
- yeah, that's quite sucky
- 21:42:12 [sbp]
- [[[
- 21:42:12 [sbp]
- ntp v3 - tock.usno.navy.mil - 123~2001-12-14~21:42:02~3217354919 150~3217354938 378~0 0~3 80~1077612392 -542
- 21:42:13 [sbp]
- ntp v3 - tock.usno.navy.mil - 123~2001-12-14~21:42:11~3217354931 560~3217354948 11~0 1~0 280~1077612381 -529
- 21:42:13 [sbp]
- ntp v3 - tock.usno.navy.mil - 123~2001-12-14~21:42:27~3217354947 600~3217354964 33~0 0~0 220~1077612365 -497
- 21:42:13 [sbp]
- ntp v3 - tock.usno.navy.mil - 123~2001-12-14~21:42:43~3217354963 590~3217354980 71~0 1~0 270~1077612349 -514
- 21:42:13 [sbp]
- ntp v3 - tock.usno.navy.mil - 123~2001-12-14~21:42:59~3217354979 620~3217354996 166~0 0~0 280~1077612333 -494
- 21:42:15 [sbp]
- ]]]
- 21:46:18 [Morbus]
- ok. i'm back.
- 21:46:21 [Morbus]
- heyadoing danbri.
- 21:46:29 [sbp]
- of course, that's extreme pinging...
- 21:46:46 [sbp]
- in reality, you should only have to sync like every 1000 seconds
- 21:47:05 [danbri]
- hi morbus
- 21:47:06 [AaronSw]
- Ooh, iTunes 2.0.3
- 21:47:14 [AaronSw]
- I wonder what "unprecedented music portability" means.
- 21:47:15 [Morbus]
- yeah, what's it do?
- 21:47:24 [Morbus]
- i think that means "iPod love"
- 21:47:38 [AaronSw]
- It doesn't actually say what it does.
- 21:47:40 [Morbus]
- you know, cos you move around with the iPod. so its portable. and so forth.
- 21:48:39 [AaronSw]
- Hmm.
- 21:49:01 [Morbus]
- hmm?
- 21:49:05 [Morbus]
- must i always question things?
- 21:49:13 [sbp]
- must you?
- 21:49:16 [AaronSw]
- Really?
- 21:50:04 [AaronSw]
- Whoa, why'd my clock switch to 24hr time...
- 21:50:08 [Morbus]
- heh.
- 21:50:11 [Morbus]
- that happened to me too.
- 21:50:18 [Morbus]
- yet when i check the settings, it still says 12 hours.
- 21:50:18 [AaronSw]
- Weird.
- 21:50:21 [Morbus]
- had to toggle back and forth to reset it.
- 21:50:30 [Morbus]
- i still have the reset to 1969 on reboot problem.
- 21:50:36 [AaronSw]
- I did that and it still doesn't work
- 21:50:42 [AaronSw]
- My dad has the 1969 problem.
- 21:50:54 [Morbus]
- still haven't been able to solve that one, either.
- 21:51:04 [Morbus]
- and i can't turn on NTP, because the da,mn thing dials every hour to check.
- 21:51:08 [Morbus]
- that's no good.
- 21:51:38 [Morbus]
- your dad could, i bet, if you have cable.
- 21:51:41 [Morbus]
- it resyncs on start.
- 21:51:43 [Morbus]
- reboot, rather.
- 21:51:46 [AaronSw]
- Ah, cool.
- 21:51:59 [AaronSw]
- Aha! It's in the I18N prefs.
- 21:52:03 [AaronSw]
- I've been looking for these forever...
- 21:52:03 [Morbus]
- right.
- 21:52:06 [Morbus]
- heh!
- 21:52:37 [Morbus]
- have you tried xnap for osx? java OpenNap clone.
- 21:52:40 [AaronSw]
- Argh, but it doesn't work.
- 21:52:43 [Morbus]
- i can search and everything, but never download.
- 21:52:44 [AaronSw]
- no
- 21:52:44 [Morbus]
- drives me nuts.
- 21:53:12 [Morbus]
- togglign it back and forth didn't work for you? odd.
- 21:53:22 [Morbus]
- i had to actually set it 24, save, reset to 12 and save again.
- 21:53:23 [AaronSw]
- well it fixed the 12hr thing
- 21:53:32 [AaronSw]
- but i wanted to change the date format
- 21:53:35 [AaronSw]
- how do I save?
- 21:53:42 [Morbus]
- i dunno. that was a guess.
- 21:53:45 [Morbus]
- i'm not home.
- 21:53:57 [Morbus]
- the date format is stored in a plist... in sprintf format.
- 21:54:04 [Morbus]
- you can modify that plist.
- 21:54:14 [Morbus]
- the docs are on macosxhints.com somewhere.
- 21:54:16 [AaronSw]
- Ah.
- 21:56:51 [Morbus]
- find em?
- 21:57:02 [AaronSw]
- yep
- 21:57:29 [Morbus]
- cool
- 21:59:14 [Morbus]
- hey, while you're in there, if you see anything remotely like "how often should I NTP", lemme know ;)
- 21:59:26 [AaronSw]
- heh heh
- 22:00:35 [AaronSw]
- this isn't a plist...
- 22:00:47 [Morbus]
- it's not? what is it?
- 22:00:58 [AaronSw]
- it's some weird binary file
- 22:01:07 [Morbus]
- oh. huh.
- 22:01:47 [AaronSw]
- oh, plist editor opens it fine
- 22:01:55 [Morbus]
- see, i told you.
- 22:01:57 [Morbus]
- <g>
- 22:03:38 [AaronSw]
- ugh, it didn't work
- 22:03:49 [Morbus]
- reboot?
- 22:04:12 [AaronSw]
- i killed hte menubar server
- 22:04:23 [Morbus]
- heh, heh
- 22:05:48 [AaronSw]
- Whoo! it worked this time
- 22:05:58 [AaronSw]
- ok, gotta run
- 22:06:05 [AaronSw]
- c'a
- 22:06:08 [Morbus]
- cooll. cya.
- 22:06:57 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)
- 22:30:08 [Morbus]
- Morbus has left #swhack
- 22:34:26 [sbp]
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- 22:42:13 [sbp]
- * sbp wonders where this second part is
- 23:18:23 [sbp]
- sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
- 23:18:35 [sbp]
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- danbri has quit ("[x]chat")
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- deus_x has quit ("Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.0.1")
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