IRC log of swhack on 2001-10-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:18 [AaronSw]

Oh, are we still playing _that_ game.

00:00:30 [sbp]

yes

00:00:32 [AaronSw]

it took me a bit to find the character of dread

00:00:45 [sbp]

ah, the forbidden ewe... yes

00:00:51 [sbp]

brb

00:02:56 [sbp]

we ticked each other's giggly bones for a long period

00:03:54 [sbp]

my "dodo" comment was probably the best bit... man, that was chortle-inspiring

00:04:08 [AaronSw]

heheh, i will keep on with my looking

00:04:26 [sbp]

yes, or reviewing, perhaps?

00:05:27 [AaronSw]

indeed

00:09:40 [AaronSw]

Heheh, this game is has much hilarity!

00:11:37 [AaronSw]

Aha, you cannot say the name of the identifier of choice!

00:16:41 [AaronSw]

my reviewing is finished

00:17:01 [AaronSw]

however, a paste of log was sorely lacking

00:18:15 [AaronSw]

sbp?

00:20:35 [sbp]

aaaaargh:-

00:20:36 [sbp]

Content-type: text/html

00:20:40 [sbp]

Content-Type: application/octet-stream

00:20:42 [AaronSw]

from where?

00:20:46 [AaronSw]

how odd

00:20:47 [sbp]

in the same header! from one of my pages

00:21:01 [AaronSw]

aaah!

00:23:01 [sbp]

yes... I'm trying to work on serving pages sans file extension as text/html

00:23:13 [AaronSw]

Oh.

00:23:19 [AaronSw]

Capitalize the T in Type, please

00:27:17 [sbp]

well, it doesn't matter anyway: I can't serve a file with two MIME types...

00:28:39 [AaronSw]

Ooh, new Invader Zim

00:29:51 [sbp]

Content-Type: text/html

00:29:55 [sbp]

Content-Type: application/octet-stream

00:30:02 [sbp]

didn't work...

00:30:04 [AaronSw]

Heh

00:30:32 [sbp]

* sbp wonders how many browsers barf on that, and which val. is taken

00:32:12 [deltab]

links displays the first one but uses the second

00:32:35 [sbp]

pardon?

00:32:55 [sbp]

it even warns me of it: D\x75plicate header Content-Type

00:33:00 [AaronSw]

UTF-8 RSS stress test: http://home.no.net/huftis/kritikk/stress.xml

00:33:15 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw apologizes

00:33:22 [sbp]

grrrrr

00:34:21 [AaronSw]

sorry, still i needed it for later grepping and retrieval

00:34:30 [AaronSw]

else i'd have forgotten

00:34:38 [sbp]

fine

00:34:47 [deltab]

when I enter that, I get asked what to do with an application/octet-stream; however, when I enter header display commands I only see the first

00:35:01 [deltab]

i.e. text/html

00:35:07 [sbp]

Hmm... that's pretty weird

00:35:35 [sbp]

still, I can't really employ that method if people find it broken

00:35:59 [deltab]

oops, there were other headers in between; both appear

00:36:08 [sbp]

ah

00:36:34 [sbp]

well, IE6 takes the former Content-Type, for some reason

00:36:47 [sbp]

* sbp tries Mozilla

00:37:20 [sbp]

Mozilla takes it as an octet stream

00:38:06 [sbp]

shame is, IIS won't let one associate a MIME type with files of no extension

00:38:11 [deltab]

certain of that? IE tends to ignore Content-Type, preferring its own method

00:38:31 [sbp]

yeah, that's what it did!

00:38:48 [sbp]

it sniffs HTML...

00:39:26 [sbp]

so the latter is almost certainly the recommended val... now if only it'd append the new Content-Type header, eh?

00:39:46 [sbp]

rather than shoving it in at the top...

00:40:17 [sbp]

ASP lets one send a file as any MIME type properly... however, ASP files req. a .asp extension!

00:40:47 [sbp]

what an arse

00:41:12 [sbp]

and there's not even Apache style extension hacking, or .htaccess to play with

00:43:37 [sbp]

Heh: it might be possible to set the 404 error page to redirect 2 a .html file

00:43:41 [AaronSw]

whee! only 206 messages left after first pass

00:44:27 [sbp]

Hmm... that's a good idea... I'm gonna try it

00:44:52 [AaronSw]

or ya might switch to a _real_ webserver ;)

00:53:19 [AaronSw]

JWZ on T-Shirts: "I really like the DNA Lounge logo, don't you? I'll make you a deal: you pay us, and we'll let you advertise for us. How does that sound?"

00:53:34 [AaronSw]

i'm safe becuz it's in "s

00:53:47 [sbp]

hey!

00:54:13 [sbp]

s/\x75/\\x75

00:54:22 [AaronSw]

Heheh

00:54:23 [sbp]

the 404 redirect didn't work

00:54:33 [AaronSw]

i'm tired of this game

00:56:21 [AaronSw]

it's exha_sting

00:57:13 [sbp]

aha! I've got something working! yay!

00:59:23 [sbp]

s/working/nearly working

01:00:44 [sbp]

heh, heh: got it

01:01:03 [AaronSw]

the redirect deeley?

01:01:25 [sbp]

it's a weird way of doing it...

01:01:32 [sbp]

it's not redirecting, it's server side proper now

01:01:53 [sbp]

I get it to map the 404 error to an absol. *RI on the server

01:02:10 [sbp]

then, I take the q*ery string passed to it, and feck abo*t with it a bit

01:02:15 [sbp]

and then it seems to work

01:22:09 [sbp]

the problem is, I want to *se this as an persistence mechanism, and yet it's s*ch a fragile system

01:22:36 [sbp]

* sbp is doing m*ch * cheating

01:23:33 [sbp]

* sbp grows weary of the game too

01:23:52 [sbp]

Dare I utter the forbidden character?

01:24:01 [sbp]

oh, I just did

01:24:04 [deltab]

yes

01:26:19 [sbp]

ugh, "u" has such understated futility, I wunder if it's wurth using it again? utterly unsane

01:26:38 [sbp]

undies! I can say undies again!

01:26:46 [sbp]

ah, wonderful

01:27:00 [AaronSw]

I'd be more for getting rid of c -- you can repace it with k or s

01:28:04 [sbp]

yeah, I'd go for that

01:28:11 [sbp]

what's the escape for it?

01:28:22 [AaronSw]

see

01:28:49 [sbp]

oops

01:28:50 [AaronSw]

hmm, what about schair?

01:28:58 [AaronSw]

oops

01:29:01 [AaronSw]

I meant shair

01:29:05 [sbp]

I meant, what's the eskape for it?

01:29:18 [sbp]

no! you meant tyair

01:29:35 [sbp]

or tyeah!

01:29:39 [AaronSw]

that's pretty awful

01:29:44 [sbp]

'tis

01:30:32 [sbp]

what about "x"?

01:30:53 [AaronSw]

lol @ http://rdfweb.org/people/danbri/2001/04/sw-context

01:30:58 [AaronSw]

xhair?

01:31:08 [AaronSw]

oops, i meant lol @ <chaals> but == bit in en-NZ

01:31:11 [sbp]

no I mean, using the letter x in our funny little game

01:31:20 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:31:26 [AaronSw]

it's a fine letter

01:31:35 [sbp]

yes, it is a fine letter

01:31:43 [sbp]

but is it a fine letter to use in the game?

01:32:03 [sbp]

is it? it is! is "it"? dunno

01:33:05 [sbp]

we'd have problems discussing xylophone techniques

01:33:26 [deltab]

but not tshairs

01:33:39 [deltab]

hmm, XML et al.

01:33:42 [sbp]

we could use both

01:33:56 [sbp]

XML? We don't talk about that here!

01:34:41 [sbp]

or any of the others alluded to with your "et al."

01:35:45 [deltab]

yes you do

01:36:06 [sbp]

no we don't

01:36:15 [deltab]

193903Z <sbp:#swhack> dc:title "XHTMLTM 1.0: The Extensible HyperText Markup Language

01:36:27 [sbp]

ah, that was an isolated case

01:36:33 [deltab]

*three* Xes there

01:36:42 [AaronSw]

lol

01:36:45 [sbp]

but I was quoting

01:38:00 [deltab]

233626Z * >sbp #swhack goes on a little "don't embed XML RDF into XHTML!" spree, on w-v

01:38:08 [deltab]

quoting there too, I see :-)

01:38:33 [sbp]

yes. As I usually say, "I'm always quoting someone or other"

01:38:37 [sbp]

Homer: Come on kids, let's go home

01:38:40 [sbp]

Bart: We are home!

01:38:44 [sbp]

Homer: That was quick

01:38:54 [AaronSw]

lol

01:39:37 [deltab]

file extensions

01:39:58 [sbp]

file stentions? what about them?

01:40:14 [sbp]

O.K., you got me there

01:40:34 [AaronSw]

So deltab, how do I get a custom IRC vhost?

01:41:12 [sbp]

Gotta run

01:41:15 [sbp]

sbp has quit

01:41:18 [AaronSw]

bye

01:41:21 [deltab]

need to write to XO :-(

01:42:02 [AaronSw]

Hmm... I've got a class C block floating around somewhere... wonder if I could use that

01:42:19 [AaronSw]

so let's say I get the rDNS working -- how do I IRC out of it?

01:42:35 [deltab]

oh, just tell your irc program to use it

01:43:21 [AaronSw]

Huh?

01:43:43 [AaronSw]

wouldn't that require my machine's network card was bound to that IP?

01:43:48 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

01:44:03 [AaronSw]

wb

01:44:06 [sbp]

oops, I meant:-

01:44:08 [sbp]

Homer: That was fast

01:44:10 [sbp]

tsk, tsk

01:44:12 [sbp]

Homer: Wellity, wellity, wellity

01:44:16 [deltab]

AaronSw: yes

01:44:16 [sbp]

ty

01:44:18 [sbp]

c'ya

01:44:18 [sbp]

sbp has quit

01:44:31 [AaronSw]

that was fast ;)

01:44:52 [AaronSw]

deltab, so what if it isn't? can I ssh tunnel or something?

01:45:27 [deltab]

uh, you need to be able to open a connection from the IP address

01:45:52 [deltab]

so it does need to be bound to an interface

01:46:08 [AaronSw]

I know, but can I bind it to an interface on some other machine

01:46:15 [deltab]

yes

01:46:19 [AaronSw]

and then ssh tunnel to that machine... does ssh go out of the same interface it comes in on?

01:46:30 [deltab]

yes...

01:46:53 [AaronSw]

ah, that's cool

01:47:00 [deltab]

not sure what you mean about a tunnel

01:47:22 [deltab]

I'm accessing my irc client through ssh

01:47:29 [AaronSw]

ssh -L 6667:irc.openprojects.net aswartz@foo.bar.com

01:47:48 [deltab]

hmm

01:48:16 [AaronSw]

Yeah, can't really run the client via ssh on my mac

01:48:42 [deltab]

ah, then you need an irc bouncer

01:48:54 [AaronSw]

what's that do?

01:49:06 [deltab]

bounces irc :-)

01:49:22 [AaronSw]

Ooh, will that hold a connection open for me and let me connect into it from various places?

01:49:37 [deltab]

irc client <--> bouncer <--> server

01:49:38 [AaronSw]

will it load backlog into my IRC client?

01:49:44 [deltab]

can do

01:49:53 [AaronSw]

That's awesome! Where can I get one of those?

01:50:00 [AaronSw]

I've always wanted that.

01:50:01 [deltab]

blazingfast.net :-)

01:50:22 [AaronSw]

oh, come on, we're friends <nudge> <nudge>

01:50:36 [deltab]

seriously

01:50:50 [deltab]

run muh

01:52:48 [deltab]

you'll need to modify a copy of muhrc

01:53:02 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries to think of where to install it...

01:53:25 [deltab]

?

01:53:31 [deltab]

I've already installed it

01:53:43 [deltab]

you just need to configure and run it

01:53:59 [AaronSw]

Oh, just off of espnow.com, then

02:01:58 [AaronSw]

Hmm, so how do I connect to this?

02:02:28 [Aaron]

Aaron has joined #swhack

02:02:38 [deltab]

hehe

02:03:02 [Aaron]

How do I access channels on another server?

02:03:24 [deltab]

run another muh

02:03:56 [Aaron]

ahh... and just copy my muhrc?

02:04:38 [deltab]

yes - you need another dir for it

02:05:07 [deltab]

muh -d ~/muh/opn

02:05:11 [deltab]

something like that

02:05:34 [Aaron]

Aaron has quit

02:06:09 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

02:06:16 [AaronSw]

Hmm, it only logs private messages, doesn't it?

02:07:18 [deltab]

um

02:07:33 [AaronSw]

I mean those that aren't sent to a channel

02:08:12 [deltab]

yeah, I understood

02:08:25 [deltab]

do you have logging = true?

02:08:29 [AaronSw]

yep

02:08:37 [AaronSw]

err, no -- just the default

02:08:53 [deltab]

default is false

02:08:56 [AaronSw]

* (default true)

02:09:01 [deltab]

?

02:09:10 [deltab]

ohh

02:09:13 [deltab]

oops

02:09:46 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: home of the tired and pissed off SBP

02:09:59 [AaronSw]

what's POed you, sbp?

02:10:09 [deltab]

this is your home?

02:10:24 [sbp]

there's a Grand Prix on tonight! I almost forget, could you believe

02:10:38 [sbp]

and now I've got to stay up to watch it... I had wanted to go to bed early

02:10:58 [deltab]

haha, crazy GP watcher

02:13:03 [sbp]

detlab, you're here too thought, aren't you? seems like you're staying up to watch it too :-)

02:13:15 [Aaron]

Aaron has joined #swhack

02:13:28 [AaronSw]

hi aaron

02:13:31 [Aaron]

Hi there

02:13:36 [AaronSw]

Nice to meet you.

02:13:40 [Aaron]

Same here.

02:13:44 [Aaron]

I have to step out for a bit, do you mind?

02:13:47 [AaronSw]

Not at all

02:13:51 [Aaron]

Okedoke -- see you soon.

02:13:56 [Aaron]

* Aaron is leaving...

02:14:13 [Aaron]

* Aaron is leaving...

02:14:25 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw says secret evil stuff in the meantime

02:14:26 [AaronSw]

mwahaha

02:14:34 [deltab]

haha

02:14:36 [Aaron]

Hello again

02:14:45 [Aaron]

Hmm, it did not log that stuff.

02:14:55 [AaronSw]

What stuff?

02:14:59 [Aaron]

The secret evil stuff.

02:15:04 [deltab]

no, I guess it can't

02:15:04 [AaronSw]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

02:15:09 [sbp]

he knows what stuff...

02:15:10 [Aaron]

Never mind.

02:15:20 [AaronSw]

deltab, do you know of anything that does?

02:15:54 [deltab]

I think greaper's setting up something more advanced, which might

02:16:10 [deltab]

or you could run a client

02:16:22 [AaronSw]

I'm imagining something which, when I connect, spews out all the stuff I've missed into my client.

02:16:31 [AaronSw]

so I can then scroll up and read it.

02:16:31 [deltab]

* deltab nods

02:17:00 [sbp]

ooh: mewtwo.espnow.com

02:17:34 [Aaron]

* Aaron waves from the ESP empire ;)

02:18:26 [AaronSw]

hmm, ezbounce seems to support it:

02:18:35 [AaronSw]

"Logging private and channel messages while detached"

02:19:13 [AaronSw]

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:druglord.freelsd.org/ezbounce/

02:19:35 [AaronSw]

but their host went bankrupt :(

02:20:10 [deltab]

due to the war on drugs? :-)

02:20:24 [AaronSw]

heheh

02:22:44 [AaronSw]

Hmm, ezbounce looks much more difficult to use

02:23:25 [AaronSw]

and it seems to log only to files...

02:24:06 [AaronSw]

it can dcc them to you, tho

02:24:30 [Aaron]

Aaron has left #swhack

02:27:36 [AaronSw]

any ideas, deltab?

02:28:22 [AaronSw]

Ahh, cool! dircproxy looks like ti does it

02:28:29 [AaronSw]

Log text recalled to your client is sent so your client sees

02:28:29 [AaronSw]

it as ordinary IRC text.

02:28:32 [AaronSw]

</quote>

02:30:27 [AaronSw]

want to install it for me deltab?

02:32:58 [AaronSw]

sbp probably wonders wtf we're talking about ;)

02:33:08 [sbp]

sbp is keeping himself busy

02:33:22 [AaronSw]

ahh, good

02:35:04 [sbp]

you're installing some weird IRC contraption under the aegis of ESP

02:35:14 [sbp]

I could not care less, unfortunately

02:35:33 [sbp]

I'm researching stuff and getting songs

02:35:49 [sbp]

[smiley after the last but one line]

02:36:09 [AaronSw]

it's a very cool IRC contraption

02:36:19 [AaronSw]

it logs for me while i'm disconnected and spits it out when i rejoin

02:36:49 [sbp]

that's quite boring when you consider the crap that I have to go through to connect and so forth

02:37:21 [sbp]

[insert another smiley]

02:37:38 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw doesn't follow

02:38:04 [sbp]

it took half an hour for me to connect to the Internet once, and I was on it... well not as long as it took me to connect

02:38:49 [AaronSw]

Ah.

02:38:58 [sbp]

"small gaps in IRC conversation" is not high on my list of foibles :-)

02:39:21 [AaronSw]

not, small gaps -- like overnight or something... it's better than scrounging thru logs

02:40:56 [sbp]

I fail to see how it makes much of a difference

02:41:22 [sbp]

and overnight to me is a small gap :-)

02:41:45 [AaronSw]

:-)

02:46:58 [AaronSw]

LOL, one configuration option is "I don't like logos, I'm boring, I eat llamas."

02:47:18 [AaronSw]

"Only the picky would turn this off, its pretty!

02:47:22 [AaronSw]

"

02:47:49 [sbp]

turn it off just to spite them!

02:47:59 [AaronSw]

I did! :)

02:49:07 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: #swhack: home of the vanilla loving Llama people

02:51:31 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: She said, "You can't repeat the past", I said, "You can't? Whaddya mean you can't? Of course you can!"

02:53:16 [sbp]

hello?

02:53:29 [sbp]

ah, there you are

02:56:20 [sbp]

Ah: http://www.google.com/search?q=She+said%2C+%22You+can%27t+repeat+the+past%22%2C+I+said%2C+%22You+can%27t%3F+Whaddya+mean+you+can%27t%3F+Of+course+you+can%21

02:58:05 [Aaron]

Aaron has joined #swhack

02:58:11 [Aaron]

Well, hello again!

02:58:15 [AaronSw]

Funny seeing you here.

02:58:20 [Aaron]

Let me step out for a bit...

02:58:23 [Aaron]

* Aaron heads off

02:58:29 [AaronSw]

i plan more evil stuf...

02:58:33 [Aaron]

* Aaron returns

02:58:38 [Aaron]

You can't spell, you know.

02:58:42 [AaronSw]

Ha! How did you know?

02:58:47 [Aaron]

The magic of dircproxy!

02:58:50 [Aaron]

This is awesome!

03:00:26 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has quit

03:00:35 [sbp]

lol

03:00:54 [Aaron]

Aaron is now known as AaronSw

03:03:00 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw heads off

03:03:07 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw returns

03:08:43 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw heads off

03:09:00 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw returns

03:09:07 [sbp]

make your mind up!

03:09:56 [AaronSw]

Just testing. :)

03:10:06 [AaronSw]

This rocks!

03:10:16 [AaronSw]

Thanks a ton, deltab!

03:10:18 [deltab]

cool

03:10:26 [AaronSw]

Should I stick this in a startup script somewhere?

03:15:44 [sbp]

"The Cuckoo is a pretty bird, she wobbles as she flies..."

03:19:06 [sbp]

neat little traditional song

03:26:01 [AaronSw]

I'm going with dataplesh as the name of my big mesh idea, btw

03:26:50 [sbp]

uh huh

03:27:00 [sbp]

infomesh would have been better

03:27:09 [AaronSw]

Well, want to hand over the domain?

03:27:18 [sbp]

it'll cost ya

03:27:29 [AaronSw]

Hah, see.

03:27:35 [AaronSw]

Well, do you think it's a horrible name?

03:27:50 [sbp]

I think that it's not as good as "infomesh" :-)

03:28:02 [AaronSw]

me neither, but hey

03:28:09 [sbp]

yeah, it's alright

03:28:19 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wonders whether to get dataplesh.info -- nah, won't bother

03:28:31 [sbp]

nah, smeg that

03:28:35 [deltab]

A pool; a plash. [Obs.] --Spenser.

03:28:46 [sbp]

I was going to try for cern.info

03:28:57 [sbp]

but I thought I might get my arse spanked for that

03:29:03 [AaronSw]

heheh

03:29:07 [sbp]

y'know, ch.cern.info

03:29:18 [AaronSw]

that'd be quite funny

03:29:34 [AaronSw]

hey, that works out quite well, deltab

03:29:48 [AaronSw]

deltab, should i go with godaddy.com or is there someplace better?

03:29:59 [deltab]

for what?

03:30:06 [AaronSw]

for grabbing the domain name

03:30:26 [AaronSw]

or perhaps get tav to pay for it...

03:31:06 [sbp]

yeah! that's the best idea

03:31:35 [sbp]

buy me one whilst you're fecking about with them, could ya?

03:31:46 [AaronSw]

ch.cern.info? ;)

03:32:00 [sbp]

yeah, that'll be good

03:32:09 [AaronSw]

cern.info is available~

03:32:13 [AaronSw]

s/~/!/

03:32:32 [AaronSw]

Hmm, should i get it?

03:34:17 [sbp]

heh, so it is!

03:34:24 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw grabs it

03:34:28 [sbp]

wow, cool

03:34:40 [AaronSw]

Ugh, what an awful site.

03:34:48 [sbp]

but duck every time a CERN official comes by...

03:35:13 [AaronSw]

hey, they had time to get it during the trademark period

03:35:19 [AaronSw]

Ugh:

03:35:20 [AaronSw]

The error which occurred was:

03:35:20 [AaronSw]

Unexpected response received from the Registry: [2306] [Parameter value policy error]

03:35:35 [sbp]

ooh, wonderful

03:36:43 [sbp]

* sbp wants another domain, but daren't buy one

03:37:02 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw refuses to buy from godaddy until they stop breaking the back button

03:40:13 [AaronSw]

Since when did usenet have a humanities.* group?

03:42:56 [AaronSw]

Wow, DomainMonger provides free robust DNS.

03:43:14 [sbp]

since forever?

03:43:24 [sbp]

"Note that this only covers new groups in the 'Big-8' hierarchies - comp.*, humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.* and talk.*. " - http://www.usenet.org.uk/usenet-information.html

03:43:31 [sbp]

DomainMonger?

03:43:43 [AaronSw]

My preferred domain registration site.

03:44:18 [sbp]

$17?

03:44:39 [AaronSw]

so?

03:45:09 [sbp]

that other place is about half that price!

03:45:18 [AaronSw]

But their website sucks

03:45:24 [sbp]

true

03:45:35 [AaronSw]

the extra 8 dollars is worth it, IMO, because domainmonger's UI is just so much better

03:49:32 [sbp]

interesting: http://logicerror.com/hypertext.html http://logicerror.com/hypertext.bollocks

03:49:46 [sbp]

so, are those URIs persistent?

03:50:11 [AaronSw]

No, I don't think so.

03:50:40 [AaronSw]

Well, they're persistent in that if a .bollocks format exists, you will get it

03:50:50 [AaronSw]

but not in that they will redirect to a working version

03:51:07 [sbp]

well, .bollocks currently redirectes to the main version

03:51:16 [sbp]

perhaps you should break it?

03:51:26 [AaronSw]

No, I like it this way.

03:51:38 [AaronSw]

If people want to point folks to a .bollocks version, they can feel free to

03:52:01 [sbp]

but it directs to the HTML version; people will expect an HTML version

03:52:16 [AaronSw]

Well then they should link to it!

03:52:49 [sbp]

I suppose

03:53:52 [AaronSw]

I suppose I could put a page up with a 3?? saying you probably meant to get the html version...

03:54:45 [sbp]

with a what?

03:54:52 [sbp]

oh, I get it

03:56:03 [sbp]

oh wow, cool thing at the bottom of: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Jul/0018

03:56:26 [AaronSw]

Yeah, remember that?

03:56:47 [sbp]

yeah, that was quite a fun experiment

03:57:21 [sbp]

shows that you've written a lot!

03:57:45 [AaronSw]

I can't believe I've written al that.

03:58:19 [sbp]

and you've probably done a lot more since then

03:59:08 [AaronSw]

Yeah, it's funny.

03:59:29 [sbp]

my one criticism is that perhaps it's too easy to publish information?

03:59:40 [AaronSw]

how can it be too easy?

04:00:19 [sbp]

well, rigorous publishing can have its benefits: you take longer preparing the file

04:00:34 [AaronSw]

how is that a benefit?

04:01:23 [sbp]

you cram it with more information, spell check it, and so on, because you know you can't be fecked to keep uploading it. An HTTP form makes that so easy

04:01:39 [sbp]

well, maybe not

04:02:08 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I still think the benefits outweigh those

04:02:23 [sbp]

cool: 'Here's a good quote: "a website doesn't look like anything at all!"' - http://logicerror.com/web

04:02:31 [sbp]

so do I, but it's something to note

04:03:15 [AaronSw]

dataplesh isn't trademarked and brings up no hits on google

04:03:32 [sbp]

uh huh

04:03:41 [sbp]

Hmm... form is a part of function

04:03:53 [sbp]

er... pertaining to your UI/document question

04:03:57 [AaronSw]

That's a good point.

04:04:23 [AaronSw]

argh! domain monger broke the back button!

04:04:39 [AaronSw]

new registration system

04:05:16 [deltab]

broke back button where?

04:05:42 [AaronSw]

it says my user/pass was invalid so I hit back and it brings me to the front page

04:07:56 [sbp]

wow: "We are intellectual prostitutes." - John Swinden, not happy about the term "independent press"

04:08:14 [AaronSw]

Ahh, the NYTimes guy -- that was quite good.

04:08:55 [sbp]

yeah

04:09:02 [AaronSw]

Whee! dataplesh.com is mine!

04:09:14 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is a wimp and won't get cern.info

04:09:23 [AaronSw]

You could put the W3C archives on there.

04:12:57 [sbp]

that's what I was thinking

04:13:05 [sbp]

since CERN broke info.cern.ch

04:13:28 [AaronSw]

Yeah, I know -- what's up with that?

04:13:34 [AaronSw]

They could at least put a redirect in!

04:14:03 [sbp]

yeah

04:14:29 [sbp]

ugh:

04:14:30 [sbp]

<rdf:Description rdf:ID="foo">

04:14:30 [sbp]

<says:Plainly>This is an example.</says:Plainly>

04:14:30 [sbp]

</rdf:Description

04:14:36 [AaronSw]

You'd think TimBL could just call them on the phone and yell a little bit, and things'd start working.

04:14:54 [sbp]

not only do you get rdf-saysPlainly... but Plainly is a property, I think

04:15:16 [AaronSw]

rdf-saysPlainly?

04:15:20 [sbp]

Yeah, and isn't Robert Caillau still the Webmaster?

04:15:26 [sbp]

<rdf:RDF

04:15:27 [sbp]

xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"

04:15:27 [sbp]

xmlns:says="http://logicerror.com/rdf-says"

04:15:27 [sbp]

>

04:15:44 [AaronSw]

Heheh -- that was great fun.

04:15:55 [AaronSw]

saysPlainly is a great name for a property!

04:16:21 [sbp]

Hmm...

04:20:03 [AaronSw]

OK, DNS for dataplesh.com is set up.

04:20:21 [sbp]

http://logicerror.com/signYourPage - why?

04:20:24 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw imagines rDNS aaronsw@just.a.datum.in.the.dataplesh.com

04:20:41 [AaronSw]

signYourPage: umm, for authentication

04:21:08 [sbp]

rDNS?

04:21:27 [sbp]

he he he, you're smitten with dataplesh already

04:21:34 [AaronSw]

reverse DNS... the thing that decides what you appear as on IRC

04:21:38 [AaronSw]

Yes, it's such a great name!

04:21:51 [sbp]

what material have you published/written so far?

04:22:02 [AaronSw]

On the dataplesh?

04:22:50 [sbp]

yeah

04:23:08 [AaronSw]

I don't think I've written any yet.

04:23:14 [sbp]

* sbp will probably call it dp for short

04:23:23 [sbp]

you haven't written any? aha!

04:23:28 [sbp]

well, here's your chance then

04:23:30 [AaronSw]

I needed a name first!

04:23:32 [sbp]

sell it to me

04:23:42 [AaronSw]

OK, this should be fun.

04:23:53 [AaronSw]

So, the Internet is quite nice and all, right?

04:24:05 [AaronSw]

But it's entered a stage which is creators, most likely, hadn't envisioned

04:24:05 [sbp]

it works, yes

04:24:19 [AaronSw]

They were thinking the Internet could be a community of peers

04:24:31 [AaronSw]

but instead it's become another client-server thing.

04:24:50 [AaronSw]

The masses of the world can't speak without spending a lot of money and time on hosting, etc.

04:25:02 [AaronSw]

(and it's too difficult)

04:25:13 [AaronSw]

With me so far?

04:25:53 [AaronSw]

Meanwhile these systems are fragile and based around centralizations.

04:26:11 [AaronSw]

sbp, you listening?

04:26:15 [sbp]

yes, I know all this... get on with the cool stuff!

04:26:22 [AaronSw]

Heheh, OK...

04:26:25 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw fast forwards

04:26:32 [AaronSw]

So there's a simple solution:

04:26:35 [sbp]

another hippie-anarcho-decentralized P2P thing?

04:26:43 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw smiles

04:26:46 [sbp]

:-)

04:26:54 [AaronSw]

Instead of computers calling each other up with their galactic cell-phones

04:27:10 [AaronSw]

they simply blast messages (in RDF triples) out into the 'plesh

04:27:32 [sbp]

how do they contect the dp?

04:27:54 [AaronSw]

well, they run a local dp node, which knows of some other nodes thru a bootstrap process

04:28:01 [AaronSw]

perhaps it tries to visit node.dataplesh.com

04:28:10 [sbp]

er, but still over the 'net, right?

04:28:12 [AaronSw]

or asked you for the name of a friend when you first ran the app

04:28:20 [AaronSw]

yes, all the communication is layered atop the Internet.

04:28:25 [sbp]

ah

04:28:45 [sbp]

what bootstrap process? IMO, this is where P2P usually fucks up

04:28:59 [AaronSw]

Any bootstrap process you want

04:29:06 [AaronSw]

it's really unimportant

04:29:18 [AaronSw]

anyone who's going to have the client software will know of at least one other node

04:29:37 [sbp]

won't they get lost in pleshspace

04:29:38 [sbp]

?

04:29:45 [AaronSw]

How so?

04:29:51 [AaronSw]

Perhaps they just connect to the node at their ISP.

04:29:55 [sbp]

* sbp points to the channel topic line

04:30:16 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wonders what it has to do with getting lost in pleshspace

04:30:34 [sbp]

I was kidding about how people pointed out that same thing with HyperText

04:30:43 [AaronSw]

Ah, I get it now.

04:30:50 [AaronSw]

Heheh.

04:30:56 [AaronSw]

So can I continue?

04:31:00 [sbp]

yes, sorry...

04:31:10 [AaronSw]

No, wouldn't want to ramble on w/o answering questions

04:31:19 [AaronSw]

so you blast your message out

04:31:42 [AaronSw]

and [vigorous handwaving] it distributes itself throughout the 'plesh as a drop of dye would distribute across a pool of water

04:32:04 [AaronSw]

Perhaps you're sending out a line of text in an IRC chat

04:32:21 [AaronSw]

the other side as a query outstanding for all IRC lines in a certain channel

04:32:29 [sbp]

speed?

04:32:31 [AaronSw]

his neighbor nodes know this and so keep on the look out for them, etc.

04:32:54 [AaronSw]

speed is obvbiously something to be optimized, but it should be as fast as the 'Net when we're thry

04:32:57 [AaronSw]

err thru

04:33:23 [sbp]

really? that seems counter intuitive to me, as the plesh is acting as a proxy for all the World's data

04:33:33 [AaronSw]

So is the Internet.

04:33:53 [sbp]

but the internet has centralized points of contact, IP

04:33:56 [sbp]

DNS

04:34:09 [AaronSw]

How is IP a centralized point of contact?

04:34:28 [sbp]

well, it's a point of contact

04:34:32 [AaronSw]

IP adresses are distributed centrally, but they could be replaced with large random numbers and things would still work (i.e. IPv6

04:34:35 [AaronSw]

well so is the plesh

04:34:56 [sbp]

so everyone would have a plesh node, as a replacement to IP?

04:35:01 [AaronSw]

the 'plesh -> the plesh -> da plesh -> daplesh

04:35:16 [AaronSw]

yes, DP replaces IP

04:35:21 [AaronSw]

slowly but surely

04:36:15 [sbp]

how would plesh nodes be assigned?

04:36:27 [AaronSw]

Assigned? They don't need to be assigned.

04:36:32 [AaronSw]

You just run it.

04:38:31 [sbp]

O.K., so the fact of the matter is that P2P appliactions have been around for some years now, but none of them are really all that good. Napster tocketed to fame, but that was just for ripping of music files, so what does that leave us with? Freenet? Not many people have heard of that, and it has some big problems, e.g. it's not persistent, and proxy access is fucked because you can't make proper links

04:38:41 [sbp]

heh: tocketed

04:38:54 [AaronSw]

So?

04:39:00 [AaronSw]

Who cares about P2P hype?

04:39:01 [sbp]

so, how will plexiwhatsitsname... er... dataplesh be any better?

04:39:26 [sbp]

what will make me, and the rest of the world, go "ah, neat"

04:39:34 [AaronSw]

I'm getting there!

04:39:45 [AaronSw]

So the other side has an outstanding query for the IRC channel's messages

04:39:52 [AaronSw]

and its neighbors know that, and so on

04:39:57 [AaronSw]

so messages get to it quickly

04:40:20 [AaronSw]

Since it's all triples, an email client can use the same stuff

04:40:36 [sbp]

aha! triples! got it

04:40:37 [AaronSw]

everything's decentralized -- to connect to any protocol with any server you just need a URI

04:40:47 [sbp]

yep, I've got it, I've got it... kick-ass idea

04:40:59 [AaronSw]

Hah, I forgot to emphasize the magic word: triples.

04:41:02 [AaronSw]

:-)

04:41:12 [sbp]

fuck the Semantic Web, this is the Semantic Internet! Much better!

04:41:21 [AaronSw]

Yes! You've got the spirit!

04:41:40 [AaronSw]

HTTP requests can be answered by anyone, not just the guy who happens to be in the DNS

04:41:46 [sbp]

and that concludes the fall time lecture, "triples and the internet"... :-)

04:41:50 [AaronSw]

Email can be sent to people who haven't been born yet!

04:41:56 [AaronSw]

We're going to blow the lid off!

04:42:00 [sbp]

oh wow, that's a cool idea

04:42:12 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw calms down

04:42:23 [sbp]

HTTP requests will cease to exist in a sense

04:42:43 [AaronSw]

Right, you'll just ask the 'plesh questions.

04:42:59 [sbp]

"why won't x go out with me?"

04:43:07 [sbp]

"'cause you're an idiot"

04:43:13 [AaronSw]

Tada!

04:43:19 [sbp]

I know, protocol questions...

04:43:46 [sbp]

"get me the first page that you can find by any "protocol" that explains why I'm an idiot"

04:43:50 [sbp]

:-)

04:43:59 [AaronSw]

{?x :goOutWith :sbp} a log:Falsehood ?

04:44:27 [sbp]

actually, protocols will just be different types of triples, won't they? Hmm... this is a really intreguing engineering problem and solution all in one

04:44:54 [AaronSw]

Right, and to create interoperating protocols all you need is...

04:44:59 [AaronSw]

log:implies!

04:45:05 [sbp]

heh, heh

04:45:16 [AaronSw]

An oldie but a goodie: http://pigdog.org/auto/mr_bads_list/shortcolumn/1914.html

04:45:20 [sbp]

ooh, a sprinkle of FOPL here and there...

04:45:55 [sbp]

trouble is, I don't think that dp will scale

04:46:01 [AaronSw]

why?

04:46:30 [sbp]

* sbp is reading http://pigdog.org/auto/mr_bads_list/shortcolumn/1914.html

04:46:39 [AaronSw]

This is funny to: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/

04:47:38 [sbp]

can you make this fit onto a single floppy?

04:47:56 [sbp]

documentation, background, and clients?

04:48:01 [sbp]

for all OS'?

04:48:12 [AaronSw]

Heheh.

04:48:17 [sbp]

no, seriously

04:48:19 [sbp]

:-)

04:48:38 [AaronSw]

We need something that my mom can use.

04:48:40 [sbp]

and of course, I shall insist that you port the code to Befunge93

04:48:52 [AaronSw]

Oh dear.

04:48:57 [sbp]

the Mum test must be universal

04:49:59 [sbp]

Heh: "Verbatim copying, distribution, and display of this entire article are permitted in any medium, provided this notice is preserved."

04:50:21 [AaronSw]

Why is that funny?

04:50:26 [sbp]

well, y'know, if they removed the notice, then it wouldn't have been copied verbatim...

04:50:37 [AaronSw]

Heheh.

04:51:33 [AaronSw]

Heh:

04:51:43 [AaronSw]

"Can I install Linux on my 386?

04:51:43 [AaronSw]

While you were snoozing, we entered the 2000s."

04:51:50 [sbp]

lol

04:53:38 [AaronSw]

"Don't the rise of Linux worms like Ramen, Lion, Red Worm, Adore, Cheese, and lpdw0rm show that Linux now has a virus problem?

04:53:39 [AaronSw]

[...] Saying these display a "virus problem" is like saying a homeowner had a "fire hazard problem" after he left his home wide open and unoccupied for six months, then burglars finally noticed the house, stole its valuables, and finally torched it. "

04:54:04 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

04:56:07 [AaronSw]

Aww, he's attacking DJB!

04:56:39 [AaronSw]

"Prof. Bernstein's software is, first of all, pervaded by a bloody-minded disregard for the rest of the world[...]"

04:56:53 [AaronSw]

I can't argue with that... but at least he's trying to make the rest of the world good!

04:58:12 [sbp]

* sbp listens to more Bert Jansch

04:59:43 [sbp]

Veronica - good song

05:00:01 [AaronSw]

Hmm, IE crashed exactly at midnight... wonder if that's a bug

05:00:23 [sbp]

it doesn't tend to do that to me. It must be a Mac bug :-)

05:01:08 [AaronSw]

They're totally different programs, if I haven't emphasized that enough already. :)

05:02:26 [sbp]

:-)

05:02:49 [AaronSw]

LOL:

05:02:54 [AaronSw]

[[[25. How can one become "cool"?

05:02:54 [AaronSw]

*Answer all Perl questions on mailing lists with the one-liner:

05:03:04 [AaronSw]

Reply to all mssages on mailing lists that mention MP3 files with the one-liner:

05:03:09 [AaronSw]

]]]

05:03:37 [AaronSw]

Hey, I did the last one on the list:

05:03:43 [AaronSw]

"Build a theremin."

05:03:59 [sbp]

where

05:04:03 [sbp]

where's this?

05:04:28 [AaronSw]

http://crackmonkey.org/faq.html#QUESTION25

05:04:31 [AaronSw]

This is pretty funnt.

05:04:32 [AaronSw]

err funny

05:04:47 [sbp]

ah, funnt indeed!

05:07:35 [sbp]

* sbp considers the haiku thing

05:10:47 [AaronSw]

Heheh: "Experience suggests that, if we were able to kill off the well-intentioned at birth, as a preventative measure, the leftover evil-doers would be small potatoes, in comparison."

05:10:50 [sbp]

what's up with the flying toastr thing?

05:11:19 [AaronSw]

you don't remember those?

05:13:02 [sbp]

heh: "Simply write the word "unsubscribe" on the back of a hundred dollar bill and send it to..."

05:13:12 [sbp]

I remember them, but WTF were they for?

05:13:19 [AaronSw]

It was a screen saver.

05:15:48 [AaronSw]

I shall have to remember this:

05:15:51 [AaronSw]

"Sir, you are an apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte."

05:15:51 [AaronSw]

Translation: "Sir, you are an impotent, conceited, obscene, hairy-buttocked, brainless, wicked, toadying, goatish, indecent, stable-smelling, hunch-backed, thick-lipped, stinking, turnip-shaped, feeble-minded, pimply, trashy, repellent, smarmy, foul-mouthed, greasy, gluttonous, loathsome, wooden-headed, whining, extremely low form of animal life."

05:16:27 [sbp]

this is cool: http://crackmonkey.org/faq.html#QUESTION8

05:16:40 [sbp]

yes, I shall try that too

05:16:53 [sbp]

screen saver: but what did it mean?

05:18:01 [sbp]

you guys are all sic!

05:18:25 [sbp]

ah, even better:-

05:18:30 [sbp]

literalism is sic

05:20:38 [AaronSw]

Aha, here someone has implemented the algo for winning at Rock Paper Scissors: http://chappie.stanford.edu/~perry/roshambo/index.html

05:20:43 [sbp]

lol! "Why do rasisins suck?" - "They are supposed to be "nature's candy," but they don't have any cool gimmick like a whistle built in or being cigarette-shaped or super-sour flavor or any of the things that you actually want candy for."

05:22:32 [AaronSw]

Man, I'm creaming the roshambot

05:22:45 [AaronSw]

Pheer my randomly chosen ways!

05:24:42 [sbp]

lol

05:24:57 [sbp]

Gotta run

05:25:00 [sbp]

Grand Prix!

05:25:02 [sbp]

c'ya

05:25:13 [AaronSw]

bye

05:45:45 [sbp]

aw... Alesi's out

05:45:52 [sbp]

quite an action packed start so far

05:46:17 [sbp]

Gotta run

05:46:19 [AaronSw]

Ah, you never disconnected... must be cheap rates now?

05:49:18 [sbp]

sbp has quit

13:58:16 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

13:59:20 [sbp]

sbp has quit

14:43:56 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

14:44:22 [AaronSw]

Hi

14:47:09 [sbp]

sbp has quit

14:54:19 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

14:54:38 [AaronSw]

wb

14:54:40 [sbp]

ty

14:54:46 [AaronSw]

np

14:55:12 [sbp]

* sbp is working on a new, improved, homepage

14:55:23 [AaronSw]

Aaaah! Not again.

14:57:00 [sbp]

yep

14:57:55 [AaronSw]

Ugh! Why won't Google index swhack?

14:58:09 [sbp]

I know! that's so annoying

14:58:29 [sbp]

and, even weirder, it did index it at first! or about five daya after I released it

14:58:41 [sbp]

and it was very high up the rankings

14:58:44 [AaronSw]

Eh? Released what?

14:58:49 [sbp]

and climbing, every time I searched!

14:59:02 [sbp]

oh, sorry, I thought you put swintro

14:59:06 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

14:59:09 [AaronSw]

Heh heh

14:59:12 [sbp]

yeah, swhack has the same problem

14:59:37 [sbp]

heh, I read "Ugh! Why won't Google index sw" and didn't bother with (guessed) the rest

15:00:14 [AaronSw]

:)

15:00:20 [sbp]

"I love your sister" => "I love you"

15:00:22 [AaronSw]

I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

15:00:34 [AaronSw]

what

15:00:39 [AaronSw]

what's swintro's url?

15:00:41 [sbp]

No, Google's being weird

15:00:51 [sbp]

http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/

15:01:20 [AaronSw]

wacky

15:01:43 [sbp]

uh huh

15:03:15 [AaronSw]

Perhaps I should email them...

15:03:26 [AaronSw]

I will definitely ask my contact at Google next time she's on.

15:03:35 [sbp]

cool

15:03:54 [AaronSw]

or try to remember ;)

15:04:35 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: You dance with who they tell you to or you don't dance at all

15:05:13 [sbp]

from "High Water"

15:05:27 [sbp]

(for Charley Patton)

15:05:31 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw sings "I Will"

15:07:19 [sbp]

I like this new homepage, but it needs some more substance. That's the whole problem with the old homepage: it was form over content, and now I've just done the same thing! Perhaps I should draw a fucking picture for my next homepage...

15:07:35 [sbp]

Ah, the world's first SVG homepage!

15:07:44 [AaronSw]

Form over content? your homepage was the most contentful I ever saw!

15:08:45 [sbp]

nah, it's just lists of links, the occasional worthless comment. Paring it back shows that there is actually very little *material* on it, and I want to put something of value there

15:08:47 [AaronSw]

Hmmph, when iCab does something nobody cares, but when Mozilla does it it becomes the greatest think since sliced bread.

15:09:09 [AaronSw]

Save the something of value for your monologues or whatever

15:09:12 [sbp]

well, that's the way of the technological world

15:09:20 [AaronSw]

Not every word out of your mouth needs to be golden

15:09:25 [sbp]

monologues?

15:09:28 [AaronSw]

(Especially those lack the letter u)

15:09:38 [sbp]

heh, heh

15:09:55 [sbp]

golden: well, a homepage is something that can be, IMO

15:10:02 [AaronSw]

Monologue: when you grow older and start a stage show about your experiences on the SW

15:10:35 [AaronSw]

homepage: oh, please. a homepage is a narccistic outlet for getting things you like ranked highly on Google.

15:11:03 [sbp]

lol!

15:11:13 [AaronSw]

Now that was golden ;)

15:11:41 [AaronSw]

How long do you think it'll be before people take that out of context? ;)

15:11:46 [sbp]

yeah, that's pretty good. Actually, I think I'm going to use that

15:12:23 [AaronSw]

Feel free to capitalize

15:12:38 [sbp]

brilliant: Yes, it's yet another attempt at a homepage, or rather a narccistic outlet for getting things I like ranked highly on Google...

15:13:06 [sbp]

trouble is, I have to quote you. Damn: why can't I come up with cool quips like that?

15:13:20 [sbp]

ah, actually:-

15:13:31 [AaronSw]

Brent Simmons: "When I was a boy I thought what was amazing about wind is how it's invisible but you can still feel it."

15:13:39 [sbp]

I could just link "narccistic outlet" to your homepage. That'd suffice

15:13:59 [AaronSw]

Pah! Sean invents new ways of quoting.

15:14:07 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

15:14:27 [sbp]

like "from the evidence here presented, guess who came up with this quote"

15:14:27 [AaronSw]

[plagurism police knock down sbp

15:14:43 [AaronSw]

[plagurism police knock down sbp's door]

15:14:43 [AaronSw]

Sean: You can't blame me! I linked it to his homepage!

15:15:08 [sbp]

I think it's "plagarism", isn't it? But oh, how I change the subject

15:15:26 [sbp]

anyway, it's too barbed to put at the top of my homepage. You should put it on yours, though

15:15:57 [AaronSw]

Heh, start off the day with some self-deprecation.

15:16:16 [sbp]

yeah, nothing beats cornflakes and self-deprecation

15:17:08 [sbp]

Hmm... I do need something to replace "A masterpiece in the hyperterminal world of the web" though

15:18:34 [AaronSw]

[[[

15:18:35 [AaronSw]

Anthrax spores need to be dispersed in the air with very advanced equipment to become the dangerous form, pulmonary anthrax, that is lethal. Since whoever is doing this is mailing the stuff, it's obvious we are dealing with amateurs who really don't understand what they are doing.

15:18:36 [AaronSw]

]]]

15:18:39 [AaronSw]

- http://www.bact.wisc.edu/microtextbook/disease/anthrax.html

15:19:26 [sbp]

OTOH, if their aim is to spread terror, they certainly seem to be succeeding

15:19:35 [AaronSw]

Indeed.

15:21:08 [sbp]

Hmm... perhaps I should write a little story

15:21:34 [AaronSw]

You have to wonder when they'll attack with a Code Red-style worm.

15:21:48 [AaronSw]

(Or take credit for Code Red.)

15:22:32 [sbp]

There once was a farmer named Jack Higgins. He was a sad little gobshite, but his sheep loved him. Later that day, Mary entered the store. "Hello, Fred", she screams. Fred nearly got indignant with her, but remembering Jack's advice, he simply slapped her with a trout. The trout miraculously survived the incident, but lost the use of its tricycle

15:23:09 [AaronSw]

Period?

15:23:15 [sbp]

er... yes

15:24:40 [sbp]

"I don't like you"

15:24:43 [sbp]

"Why?"

15:24:54 [sbp]

"Because you're an annoying little smeg-end"

15:25:00 [sbp]

"Ah. Well, so long as I know"

15:25:23 [AaronSw]

heheh

15:28:09 [AaronSw]

Hmm, a cool thing about telecons is that they provide Dining Cryptographer's-level anonymity.

15:28:42 [sbp]

you what?

15:28:58 [sbp]

The FAQ FAQ

15:29:13 [sbp]

Question 1) What does FAQ stand for?

15:29:27 [sbp]

Answer 1) FAQ stands for Fair Average Quality

15:29:38 [sbp]

Question 2) Where is Daisy

15:29:44 [sbp]

Daisy's dock?

15:29:50 [sbp]

Answer 2) Dunno

15:30:00 [sbp]

Question 3) Why am I doing this?

15:30:05 [sbp]

Answer 3) See above

15:30:07 [AaronSw]

Heheh, did you see yesterday's UserFriendly on that: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20011013

15:31:20 [sbp]

heh

15:32:00 [sbp]

AG is slow today

15:33:03 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: They're taking a streetcar named Desire

15:33:11 [AaronSw]

Heh.

15:39:11 [sbp]

Gotta run

15:40:07 [AaronSw]

c'ya

15:42:12 [sbp]

sbp has quit

15:42:29 [AaronSw]

Cool! www.televisionarchive.org

15:42:37 [AaronSw]

http://www.televisionarchive.org/

15:47:50 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

15:48:27 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw watches more http://www.televisionarchive.org/

15:55:57 [AaronSw]

Whoo, I can watch the Tom Clancy interview.

15:56:05 [AaronSw]

Thank you chat logs!

16:19:08 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw uses three monitors ;)

16:19:24 [sbp]

Heh, heh

16:30:38 [sbp]

Gotta run

16:31:05 [AaronSw]

c'ya

16:33:38 [sbp]

sbp has quit

17:15:20 [AaronSw]

Ewww, I got spam from Sprint. I sure don't plan to by their service now.

18:06:20 [sbp]

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18:06:32 [sbp]

sbp has quit

18:07:01 [sbp]

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18:10:03 [AaronSw]

he-lo

18:10:35 [AaronSw]

Do you remember who it was that said he was going on vacation but would review my DCMI proposal when he got back?

18:14:11 [sbp]

no idea

18:14:21 [sbp]

heh, I've just replied to that mail :-)

18:15:14 [AaronSw]

Yeah, you show those DMCI guys where to stick their schema. ;-)

18:15:36 [AaronSw]

(It'd also be nice if you'd pledge support for my RDDL idea)

18:16:35 [sbp]

er... yes, I should have done so, but I think that they'll see that it's a sensible idea

18:16:51 [sbp]

if not, of course I'll back you up

18:17:25 [AaronSw]

The important point is that these go on the PURL server, not as a redirect.

18:17:26 [sbp]

I think that there was a limited response to your initial draft, BTW< just going through my archives

18:17:45 [sbp]

yeah, the redirect is weird

18:18:02 [AaronSw]

I seem to have deleted them from my archive and I'm not too willing to mess with the jiscmail interface, so if you could summarize i'd greatly appreciate it

18:18:19 [AaronSw]

I recall Harry Wagner saying something about how it's hard now that he's created the PURLs.

18:19:17 [sbp]

I think that's nonsense: if the DCMI can't control their own PURLs as a part of the OCLC, then I'd be a bit shocked

18:19:37 [AaronSw]

I agree.

18:19:45 [sbp]

* sbp drags out a summary

18:20:55 [sbp]

Roland Schwaenzl gave some feedback on the RDDL itself

18:21:19 [sbp]

Harry Wagner doesn't seem to have replied to you once you sent the schema itself

18:21:26 [sbp]

s/schema/RDDL

18:21:44 [sbp]

[[[

18:21:44 [sbp]

> I wish this had been mentioned earlier. I created

18:21:45 [sbp]

> the PURLs yesterday. If you want to do a draft we would certainly

18:21:45 [sbp]

> reconsider the issue.

18:21:45 [sbp]

Yes, my apologies for not getting to it sooner. I sent in a

18:21:45 [sbp]

draft. Do you have thoughts on it. If you (or someone else)

18:21:46 [sbp]

could throw it up on PURL.org I'd be happy to maintain it and

18:21:48 [sbp]

begin work on the others.

18:21:50 [sbp]

]]]

18:21:52 [sbp]

(from you)

18:23:03 [sbp]

"A copy is also embedded in this document" - are you sure you want to do that?

18:23:11 [sbp]

And BTW, the DOCTYPE should go at the top

18:23:54 [AaronSw]

Why shouldn't I embed it?

18:24:00 [AaronSw]

What DOCTYPE should I use?

18:24:57 [sbp]

THe DOCTYPE you used is fine, but it shouldn't go at the top

18:25:07 [sbp]

why not to embed it: what's the point of embedding it?

18:25:26 [sbp]

RDDL is a catalogue format, rather than a schema collection framework

18:25:41 [AaronSw]

What DOCTYPE did I use?

18:25:55 [sbp]

Some nutty one with entities

18:26:11 [sbp]

<!DOCTYPE rdf:RDF [

18:26:11 [sbp]

<!ENTITY rdfns 'http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#'>

18:26:11 [sbp]

<!ENTITY rdfsns 'http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#'>

18:26:11 [sbp]

<!ENTITY dcns 'http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/'>

18:26:11 [sbp]

<!ENTITY eorns 'http://dublincore.org/2000/03/13/eor#'>

18:26:13 [sbp]

]>

18:27:53 [sbp]

* sbp sends another email

18:28:18 [AaronSw]

Oh, that's the stupid schema's fault -- i just copied the schema they put up

18:28:26 [sbp]

yep

18:28:48 [sbp]

I've no idea why they used entities... seems a bit silly to me

18:29:12 [AaronSw]

Me too.

18:30:07 [sbp]

but there you go: what do we know, eh? :-)

18:30:22 [AaronSw]

See, they're just aching for N3

18:30:29 [AaronSw]

so they imitate it with entities.

18:30:35 [sbp]

Gotta run]

18:30:42 [sbp]

er... run

18:30:46 [AaronSw]

be

18:30:48 [AaronSw]

err bye

18:33:42 [sbp]

sbp has quit

19:01:02 [sbp]

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19:01:24 [sbp]

N3: yeah

19:01:52 [AaronSw]

Tooke me a while to figure out what that was in response to. ;-)

19:02:11 [sbp]

:-)

19:02:30 [sbp]

Tooke: Old English?

19:02:51 [AaronSw]

Yese ;)

19:06:13 [sbp]

ah, looking out and looking in are the same thing

19:06:38 [AaronSw]

Hey Jude, begin.

19:06:57 [sbp]

without going out of your door...

19:07:59 [AaronSw]

You're waiting for someone to perform with.

19:09:17 [sbp]

you can know what things are there

19:10:03 [AaronSw]

The less one knows

19:10:03 [AaronSw]

The less one really knows

19:11:17 [sbp]

ding diddle ding diddle ding diddle ding

19:11:46 [sbp]

pa-jing-a-jing, pa-jing-a-jing

19:11:47 [sbp]

ding diddle ding diddle ding diddle ding

19:11:51 [sbp]

etc.

19:12:40 [AaronSw]

ahhhhahhhhahhhhhahahhhahhahhhh

19:14:01 [sbp]

bwang bwa bwang da diddle diddle riddle smikkle, wrrrr diddle wrrr diddle ding diddle ding

19:14:12 [sbp]

Eastern music is so great

19:14:37 [AaronSw]

Imagine this on a teleprompter...

19:14:37 [AaronSw]

Arrive without travelling

19:15:11 [AaronSw]

Hmm, sometimes I think Music critics are insane: "all the pleasures of great Classic Rock within a guilt-free Indie Rock aesthetic."

19:15:35 [sbp]

heh, I saw that too

19:15:42 [sbp]

what a load of crap

19:16:25 [AaronSw]

Graham Klyne: "I find the process of document-writing by committee to be confusing and unwieldy, and I'm not convinced that it yields the best result."

19:17:07 [sbp]

in another WG, it took 10 people 5 years to come up with the same conclusion

19:17:19 [AaronSw]

lol

19:19:02 [AaronSw]

Hmm, looking at the effectiveness of /.ing w3c-patentpolicy-wg, perhaps we should try that with more Working Groups. ;-)

19:19:32 [sbp]

heh!

19:19:47 [sbp]

or just the W3C in general

19:19:52 [sbp]

just /. W3C

19:20:12 [AaronSw]

But what mailing list? See, there's no public archive for process-issues.

19:20:31 [sbp]

ah! that's why then, to avoid the wrath of /.

19:20:37 [sbp]

it makes sense now

19:20:40 [AaronSw]

Indeed!

19:22:32 [AaronSw]

Ooh, look at this /. story:

19:22:32 [AaronSw]

W3C Creates More Web Standards In Secret

19:22:32 [AaronSw]

killertomato writes: "The W3C is at it again! They've created an internal policy that insures all WG are filled with evilness and hatred. Worse yet, these WGs are secret and only available to those who pay the W3C $50,000! This needs to be stopped." We agree: email address to remember are janet@w3.org and ian@w3.org. Go get 'em boys, and remember that Linux users have a reputation of not being friendly.

19:24:13 [sbp]

different

19:25:58 [AaronSw]

I got it at http://bbspot.com/toys/slashtitle/

19:26:05 [sbp]

all my pence for each other, did it?

19:26:41 [AaronSw]

"That's nooot meeeeeeeee."

19:26:47 [sbp]

Have you ever been to Abbey Road?

19:26:59 [AaronSw]

I goooooooo where I pleeeeeease.

19:27:10 [AaronSw]

Abbey Road: not geographically

19:27:23 [sbp]

England?

19:27:36 [AaronSw]

I don't have a passport.

19:27:41 [sbp]

Ah

19:27:44 [AaronSw]

The only other country I've been to is Canada.

19:28:08 [sbp]

Pffff

19:28:19 [sbp]

That's a shame

19:28:33 [AaronSw]

Indeed... Perhaps now that air fares are lower....

19:28:34 [AaronSw]

Quebec is cool.

19:30:23 [sbp]

"not geographically" is probably the weirdest answer I've ever had to that question

19:30:54 [sbp]

answers usually range in teh boolean from "yes" to "no"

19:31:12 [AaronSw]

I've been there musically, which is a possible interpretation of the question.

19:31:16 [AaronSw]

It was quite a fun trip.

19:31:26 [sbp]

A "yes" is usually met with, "did you go across the crossing", and a "no" is usually met with "you should go"

19:31:36 [AaronSw]

:-)

19:31:53 [sbp]

"not geographically" has kind of thrown me

19:31:59 [AaronSw]

There's this great computer ad with folks going across the crossing but all looking down at their PDAs.

19:32:06 [sbp]

lol

19:32:18 [AaronSw]

Richard Dawkins: """Creation 'scientists' have more need than most of us to parade their degrees and qualifications[...]Those vaunted Ph.D.s tend to be in subjects such as marine engineering or gas kinetics rather than in relevant disciplines like zoology or geology. And often they are earned not at real universities, but at little-known Bible colleges deep in Bush country."""

19:32:27 [AaronSw]

- http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/dawkins_21_4.html

19:32:57 [sbp]

go get 'em!

19:33:10 [sbp]

Heh, PhD in Gas Kinetics

19:33:45 [sbp]

"Is there a doctor in the house?" "I'm a doctor of gas kinetics!"

19:33:54 [AaronSw]

Heh, he's pretty harsh but it's hard not to see some truth in Creationist stories.

19:34:15 [AaronSw]

I mean, isn't it a tad surprising that almost all traditions have a story of Creation that lines up neatly with "Big Bang Theory"?

19:34:35 [sbp]

surprising? how so?

19:35:06 [AaronSw]

Surprising in that the likeness is more than enough for me not to dismiss it out of hand.

19:35:36 [sbp]

but the facts exist independent of you believing them, so why ponder it?

19:35:51 [AaronSw]

What facts?

19:35:59 [sbp]

the facts

19:36:04 [AaronSw]

What facts?

19:36:09 [sbp]

s/the/*the*/

19:36:16 [AaronSw]

*the* facts?

19:36:22 [sbp]

God's facts

19:37:04 [AaronSw]

Why do we have science then? Why not just assume that Nature exists independent of how we think it works and stop pondering it?

19:37:09 [AaronSw]

It's interesting.

19:37:39 [sbp]

exactly: why do we have science? I mean, what's the point of speculative science? So who cares how big a galaxy is?

19:38:04 [AaronSw]

So do you see no point in pure math, then?

19:38:07 [sbp]

Working out ways of feeding huge numbers of starving people is a bit more productive

19:38:30 [AaronSw]

But that means doing actual work! :-)

19:38:31 [sbp]

well, that's one of the murkier areas

19:38:41 [sbp]

heh, yeah

19:39:13 [sbp]

actually, I can imagine some conversation...

19:39:18 [AaronSw]

Scientists just want their tenured chair in a nice air-conditioned University where every once in a while they have to read from a book they wrote 25 years ago to a bunch of faces who don't say anything.

19:39:28 [sbp]

Person A: "Hi, I'm starving. Do you have any food?"

19:39:35 [sbp]

Person B: "No, not really"

19:39:54 [sbp]

Person A: "What have you been doing for the last ten years?"

19:40:13 [sbp]

Person B: "Well, le me just say, science now knows how big galaxies are on average!"

19:40:26 [sbp]

Person A: "Oh, thanks for that"

19:40:34 [sbp]

[Person A starves to death]

19:40:53 [sbp]

[Person B gets another grant fund]

19:41:15 [sbp]

ah, satire

19:41:27 [AaronSw]

There were some good pictures in the 'paper of starving Afghans scrambling to hoard the food packets.

19:41:45 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries to find them

19:41:48 [sbp]

but I'm not a luddite...

19:42:36 [sbp]

and don't forget, I considered myself a cosmologist for a while

19:42:46 [sbp]

then I considered myself an idiot

19:42:53 [AaronSw]

Heheheh.

19:42:54 [sbp]

now I try not to consider things

19:43:18 [sbp]

in fact, I consider myself to be the best person for not considering things

19:44:08 [AaronSw]

Interesting.

19:44:54 [AaronSw]

That's something to consider.

19:45:12 [sbp]

fuck! you've got a 34 second PING

19:45:19 [AaronSw]

What?!

19:45:40 [AaronSw]

Yours is 14 seconds.

19:45:48 [sbp]

your comments were rather delayed so I pinged you. That's the result

19:45:57 [AaronSw]

I was thinking.

19:46:05 [sbp]

slow network

19:46:24 [AaronSw]

It's because I'm bouncing thru ESP, most likely.

19:46:33 [AaronSw]

America -> Britain -> America -> Britain

19:47:02 [AaronSw]

Hmm, but it wasn't this bad last night.

19:47:37 [AaronSw]

Hmm, is that 14 seconds round trip?

19:47:54 [sbp]

about what?

19:48:09 [AaronSw]

What was that about?

19:48:46 [sbp]

hello?

19:48:50 [AaronSw]

Yes?

19:49:02 [AaronSw]

Eek, something's weird.

19:49:07 [AaronSw]

109 secons, then 8 seconds

19:49:14 [sbp]

yuck

19:49:18 [AaronSw]

Now back to 1 second.

19:49:26 [AaronSw]

Must be some weird network outtage

19:49:53 [sbp]

aha, the logs reveal the real time situation that I'm not getting: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-10-14.txt

19:54:12 [sbp]

Gotta run

19:54:15 [sbp]

sbp has quit

21:00:02 [sbp]

sbp has joined #swhack

21:00:46 [AaronSw]

Addiction is... http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/addiction

21:00:48 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has left #swhack

21:00:54 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has joined #swhack

21:00:55 [AaronSw]

whoops

21:01:04 [AaronSw]

That's a great piece.

21:01:04 [sbp]

he he he

21:02:16 [sbp]

wow, yes

21:03:15 [sbp]

* sbp works on his homepage a bit

21:04:05 [sbp]

* sbp plays Black Water Side

21:05:19 [AaronSw]

He got fired for that piece, BTW. http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/2001/10/09

21:06:27 [sbp]

wow, that's *really* sad

21:07:07 [sbp]

especially given http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/write

21:07:15 [AaronSw]

Yeah.

21:07:38 [AaronSw]

Why are all these cool people getting fired?

21:08:09 [sbp]

I think we both know the answer to that

21:09:16 [AaronSw]

Because the enconomy sucks?

21:09:26 [sbp]

Heh

21:09:45 [sbp]

On another note, I don't like the pain that western philosophy has inflicted on us all

21:09:55 [AaronSw]

An example?

21:10:00 [sbp]

it seems that East met West too quickly

21:10:16 [sbp]

example: it's a subtle thing, but let's think... ah, there you go

21:11:02 [AaronSw]

Hmm, let me think about that.

21:11:11 [sbp]

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle... well, they had something going there, but that was so long ago

21:12:16 [sbp]

Then again, perhaps I'm biased. THe way I "discovered" all of this was an incredible series of coincedences. Conversations with people, books I've read, things I've done. And many of them went unspoken, which is the neatest aspect

21:12:25 [AaronSw]

Hmm, but where's the pain?

21:12:54 [sbp]

The pain is in the vinegar tasting

21:13:31 [sbp]

ha, I guess the same affliction beplagued eastern philosophy too? The story of Kung-Fu-Tzu meeting Lao-Tzu is very famous

21:13:51 [sbp]

* sbp does a bit of Googling

21:15:00 [sbp]

aha: http://www.hackvan.com/pub/stig/spirit/The_Vinegar_Tasters.htm

21:15:09 [AaronSw]

Have you read the Tao of Pooh?

21:15:22 [AaronSw]

> The Tao of Who?

21:15:26 [sbp]

Ooh, that's a cool book

21:15:27 [AaronSw]

< The Tao of You!

21:16:01 [sbp]

I did find the guy to be a little un-Taoistly judemental, though, especially towards Piglet. And he seems to have realised that in the Te Of Piglet

21:16:37 [sbp]

I mean, what did Piglet do to harm anyone? Bashfullness? Oh please! That's hardly the worlds worst sin now, is it?

21:16:52 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I don't remember him being rude to Piglet.

21:17:04 [AaronSw]

The Te of Piglet was good too, but a bit too long, I think

21:17:07 [sbp]

I didn't say he was rude, I said he was judgemental

21:17:21 [AaronSw]

Hmm, that's a good away message: BISY BACKSON ;)

21:17:21 [sbp]

well, ya gotta pad

21:17:29 [sbp]

yeah, that'd be cool

21:17:40 [sbp]

Doesn't JMR sign his letters with that?

21:18:18 [AaronSw]

JMR?

21:18:23 [AaronSw]

I gotta pad?

21:18:24 [sbp]

Joseph M. Reagle

21:18:27 [AaronSw]

Ahh, I see.

21:18:34 [AaronSw]

Yes, he does.

21:19:06 [sbp]

neat

21:20:26 [sbp]

also neat: "Writers will write because they can't not write."

21:20:34 [sbp]

- http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/write

21:20:50 [AaronSw]

So how does the vinegar taste to you?

21:22:28 [sbp]

I drink Worcester Sauce from the bottle

21:23:26 [AaronSw]

How does it taste?

21:24:09 [sbp]

it tastes like Worcester Sauce!

21:25:20 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

21:25:22 [AaronSw]

Om.

21:26:02 [sbp]

* sbp listens to more Bert Jansch

21:32:12 [sbp]

http://www.best.com/~abbeyrd/carnival.htm

21:34:48 [AaronSw]

Interesting.

21:36:29 [AaronSw]

Hmm: http://www.winterspeak.com/columns/goodeasy.txt

21:36:50 [sbp]

from what I've heard of it, it's backwards looped, and a bit like the mellotron section in "Flying"

21:37:05 [sbp]

er... but heavier

21:42:27 [sbp]

* sbp finds a cool chord

21:42:59 [sbp]

A9,6

21:44:16 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I need to get a bigger disk drive.

21:44:32 [sbp]

How big is the one you've got?

21:44:57 [AaronSw]

Only 9.36 GB.

21:45:04 [sbp]

yuck

21:45:15 [AaronSw]

Yours?

21:45:19 [sbp]

19GB

21:45:25 [AaronSw]

Wanna trade? ;)

21:45:27 [sbp]

:-)

21:45:44 [sbp]

I ahd to put up with just over 3GB for years

21:45:52 [sbp]

19GB is great!

21:46:08 [AaronSw]

See, if we had the dataplesh, my little-used files would simply find themselves a nice home and I'd have more space.

21:46:26 [sbp]

heh, they'd leave home and logde in some seedy plesh hotel

21:46:46 [AaronSw]

Heheh.

21:46:47 [sbp]

and you'd beg them to come come, bribe them with cookies and brownies

21:46:54 [sbp]

s/come/home

21:47:14 [AaronSw]

But seriously, I've got lots of unused disk drives sitting here on the network. Why don't my files take advantage of that?

21:47:21 [AaronSw]

Stuoud files... :)

21:47:44 [AaronSw]

err stupid

21:48:07 [sbp]

filing systems are the stupid things. They really suck; I've not come across a decent one yet

21:48:14 [AaronSw]

Heheheh, this website's checkout is at www.asecureserver.com

21:48:22 [AaronSw]

filing systems: why bother filing? just add metadata

21:49:15 [sbp]

but you want to reference and group the files

21:49:40 [AaronSw]

Why would you want to do that?

21:50:02 [sbp]

for example, I might want to group all of my Simpsons related stuff together

21:50:26 [sbp]

so one click or whatever, and I can choose from a list of stuff that I often use

21:50:35 [sbp]

the problem I find is Desktop space

21:50:50 [sbp]

I always want to drag files into desktop icons, and end up moving stuff around

21:51:29 [sbp]

I like the mac answer of putting apps on bars at the bottom (Win can do that too)... but it frustrates me, and still doesn't work: there's always some stupid application in the way

21:51:41 [sbp]

I could rant about OS UIs for hours...

21:51:44 [AaronSw]

See you just want to be able to do metadata queries:

21:51:51 [AaronSw]

all items in genre simpsons

21:51:53 [AaronSw]

or whatever

21:52:10 [AaronSw]

and no app can get in the way of the Dock, on OS X

21:52:11 [sbp]

yeah, but I don't want to type that. I wanna go "click" done

21:52:19 [AaronSw]

right, so you save the query

21:52:25 [sbp]

but the dock is a limited space

21:52:38 [AaronSw]

Yeah, but it's a big limited space ;)

21:52:59 [sbp]

you've not seen my desktop, have you...

21:53:30 [AaronSw]

Thank goodness no.

21:53:39 [sbp]

:-)

21:56:23 [AaronSw]

I think what this guy says is true: http://www.winterspeak.com/columns/082001.html

21:56:27 [AaronSw]

It's just difficult to get to there.

21:59:30 [sbp]

I'd like a good easy for Windows

22:00:50 [sbp]

heh

22:01:22 [sbp]

for me, the most important applications are actually email, text editing, media player, IRC, and IE

22:02:28 [sbp]

but I don't really need cross connectivity between them. Why would I? Only to a limited extent, i.e. that which can be done by simple copying and pasting

22:02:45 [AaronSw]

See, you clearly haven't used UNIX.

22:02:50 [sbp]

I could do with a decent filing system, but I like my curren method

22:02:54 [sbp]

true

22:03:10 [AaronSw]

Mac OS X borrows Services from NeXTStep, which is a good step forward, but I haven't seen any great uses of them.

22:03:24 [AaronSw]

Like why should all of those programs have to implement their own spell checker?

22:03:38 [sbp]

ah, but what's the harm?

22:03:45 [sbp]

I mean, then you can choose the best

22:03:50 [AaronSw]

That you have 5 sucky spell checkers instead of one good one.

22:04:04 [sbp]

the problem with having core applications is that if one of them is crap, then it's tough

22:04:26 [AaronSw]

That's why they should be interchangable

22:04:56 [sbp]

ah, but if they're dependent on one another, doesn't that upset the balance?

22:05:11 [AaronSw]

No, because the interfaces are open and easy -- it's just plain text

22:05:39 [sbp]

how so?

22:05:56 [AaronSw]

Like look at this command line I mentioned the other day

22:06:10 [AaronSw]

I want to get URLs out of Danbri's list of chumped pages...

22:06:47 [AaronSw]

sed -e "/<url>(.*)</url>/\1/" | sort -u | wc

22:06:54 [AaronSw]

that counts the number of unique URLs.

22:07:11 [AaronSw]

The job of each app there (sed, sort, wc) is well known

22:07:13 [AaronSw]

so they're all interchangable

22:07:29 [AaronSw]

In fact, that's how GNU/Linux was built -- they took a UNIX system and replaced hte apps one-by-one

22:07:35 [AaronSw]

until the whole system was free software

22:07:56 [sbp]

and where can I get this free software from?

22:07:59 [sbp]

for free

22:08:04 [AaronSw]

www.gnu.org

22:08:17 [sbp]

I have to download it? But that's not free, for me

22:08:32 [AaronSw]

It's free as in libre not gratis.

22:08:32 [sbp]

so, where can I get this free software from?

22:08:36 [AaronSw]

Do you know a UNIX-using friend?

22:08:40 [AaronSw]

He could burn you a CD.

22:08:49 [AaronSw]

You can get one for $2 from cheapbits.com

22:08:53 [sbp]

Ah, cheers Aaron. I was hoping you'd offer

22:08:54 [AaronSw]

I could mail one to you.

22:09:34 [AaronSw]

You want libre software for gratis, huh?

22:10:00 [sbp]

yes, please

22:10:02 [sbp]

heh:-

22:10:02 [sbp]

22:08:53 <sbp> Ah, cheers Aaron. I was hoping you'd offer

22:10:02 [sbp]

22:08:54 <AaronSw> I could mail one to you.

22:10:07 [AaronSw]

What would you do with it?

22:10:18 [sbp]

I may well partition my Hard Drive

22:10:22 [sbp]

I have a big one

22:10:29 [AaronSw]

True.

22:11:05 [sbp]

Would you really send me one?

22:11:20 [AaronSw]

if you really partioned your HD

22:11:33 [AaronSw]

Hmm, what distribution would you like?

22:11:42 [sbp]

Ooh, I've been pre-approved for a loan [sound of me hitting delete]

22:11:48 [AaronSw]

Heheh.

22:12:09 [sbp]

Distribution: aw man, I have to start choosing stuff now...

22:12:19 [AaronSw]

Fine, I'll choose something for you.

22:12:20 [sbp]

O.K., well I probably won't devote much HD space to it, if I can help it

22:12:33 [AaronSw]

We'll get you the easy-to-install special.

22:12:38 [sbp]

ah, perfect

22:14:57 [sbp]

* sbp tries to find partitioning for dummies

22:15:02 [AaronSw]

Hmm, these guys look like they might mail you one: http://freelinuxcd.org/?page=getcd

22:16:40 [sbp]

http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/hd-partn.htm

22:17:32 [sbp]

"If you want two different operating systems you need separate partitions for them to boot in."

22:19:05 [sbp]

Ah man, this looks like a total pain in the arse

22:20:03 [AaronSw]

Yep. :-)

22:20:19 [sbp]

there's no way I can back up the whole computer. Doing it last time was so annoying

22:20:36 [sbp]

and I only backed up about a third of it

22:22:07 [AaronSw]

You could gamble and try Partion Magic

22:23:44 [sbp]

gamble?

22:23:59 [AaronSw]

Yeah, there's always the chance that your hard drive will be ruined.

22:24:08 [sbp]

ooh, wonderful

22:24:54 [AaronSw]

Remember this from yesterday? http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#partition

22:29:13 [sbp]

ah, so it would be cheaper and more effiecient to buy a new computer? Where would I put it? We already have two

22:29:24 [AaronSw]

Two?

22:29:46 [sbp]

Yeah, and we're not really set up for computer stuff here

22:29:52 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

22:29:55 [AaronSw]

Well, dinner time -- gotta run

22:30:02 [sbp]

Aw...

22:30:06 [sbp]

c'ya

22:30:36 [AaronSw]

Well?

22:30:56 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw stalls

22:31:20 [sbp]

ah, well, I was going to ask

22:31:28 [AaronSw]

Go ahead

22:31:29 [deltab]

you could use a system elsewhere

22:31:33 [sbp]

just how good is Linux? Is it worth that much buggering about?

22:31:40 [sbp]

pardon, deltab?

22:31:57 [deltab]

I can provide a shell account for you

22:32:19 [sbp]

I already have a shell account... 'tis not the same though, is it?

22:32:32 [sbp]

(many thanks for the offer)

22:32:52 [deltab]

no, but it'd be easier than setting up a system yourself

22:33:24 [sbp]

the other problem is that my 'net connection is not cheap

22:33:30 [sbp]

well, at Weekends it's not too bad

22:33:46 [deltab]

another possibility is using some sort of virtual machine like vmware

22:34:10 [AaronSw]

OK, gotta run

22:34:27 [sbp]

heh, I could run BeOS then :-)

22:34:32 [sbp]

c'ya, Aaron

22:34:34 [AaronSw]

BeOS rocks!

22:34:37 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw heads off

22:34:38 [deltab]

yeah

22:36:20 [sbp]

but it's money; more money than I have to spend on operating systems :-)

22:36:20 [sbp]

about £250... eek

22:36:20 [deltab]

for what?

22:36:20 [sbp]

£50 would be mega-pushing it

22:36:20 [sbp]

for vmware

22:36:25 [deltab]

something like vmware, not that itself

22:36:49 [sbp]

it'd still cost me though, I'm guessing

22:39:31 [sbp]

Gotta run

22:42:31 [sbp]

sbp has quit

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