IRC log of swhack on 2001-09-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:38:03 [logster]

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00:38:03 [asimov.openprojects.net]

Users on #swhack: logster deltab tav tav` AaronSw

00:38:32 [Morbus]

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00:38:48 [AaronSw]

hi there... good timing, i just returned

00:42:28 [AaronSw]

Eeek, 10,591 new emails... something is wrong.

00:43:50 [AaronSw]

I'm being attacked by what looks like some weird new worm... anyone seen this?

00:44:54 [deltab]

NIMDA?

00:49:15 [Morbus]

yup.

00:49:31 [Morbus]

if you're running sendmail on your server, aaron, i can give you the filter

00:49:37 [Morbus]

or procmail.

00:49:49 [AaronSw]

Please?

00:49:52 [AaronSw]

How does it work?

00:49:54 [Morbus]

procmail or sendmail?

00:49:58 [AaronSw]

sendmail

00:50:16 [Morbus]

do you have the regexp support compiled in?

00:50:32 [AaronSw]

umm, not sure... I just installed the default RPM

00:50:43 [Morbus]

hmm. i dunno. we'll try. hold on.

00:51:02 [Morbus]

http://ISP-Lists.ISP-Planet.com/isp-tech/0109/msg00851.html

00:51:11 [Morbus]

thats me from my work :)

00:53:37 [AaronSw]

thanks

00:54:06 [Morbus]

there are router commands to block it, but i don't have those around me.

00:55:26 [AaronSw]

Hmm, now I just need to figure out how to write a perl script to remove it from my mail spool

00:57:05 [AaronSw]

Oh, shoot.. never mind the email box isn't on my server.

00:57:22 [Morbus]

heh... uh oh.

00:57:29 [Morbus]

can you procmail it locally?

00:57:47 [AaronSw]

well, i can filter it with my mail client (which is what i'm doing)

00:57:53 [AaronSw]

but it's going to take a while to download...

00:57:59 [Morbus]

what format is your mailbox in? you on linux? or mac right now?

00:58:15 [Morbus]

ah. you can't telnet to the email box and run a script on your file? <g>

00:58:33 [AaronSw]

heh, not that i know of... mindspring

00:58:39 [Morbus]

ah. yeah.

00:58:42 [Morbus]

welp... hmm...

00:58:57 [Morbus]

do this. set your email program to not dl mail over 20k, just dl the headers.

00:59:01 [Morbus]

then mass delete that way.]

00:59:46 [AaronSw]

nah, that won't work... the emails are all very small

01:01:19 [Morbus]

do they all have an attachment of "readme.exe"?

01:01:38 [AaronSw]

no, it's not NIMDA, apparently

01:01:54 [Morbus]

ah.

01:01:58 [AaronSw]

it's emails from a bot i set up to notify me when weird things it the server...

01:02:03 [AaronSw]

but a lot of weird things hit...

01:02:06 [AaronSw]

stufflike: http://www/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir

01:02:17 [AaronSw]

and http://www/d/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir

01:02:37 [AaronSw]

And all the peer IPs are within the class C I'm on

01:02:40 [Morbus]

yeah, that's nimda

01:02:48 [AaronSw]

Oh, OK...

01:03:05 [Morbus]

nimda tries to attack about 6 or 7 vuln's in NT, and acts like code red in the sense of scanning its class C first.

01:03:51 [AaronSw]

I see... it's really hit hard

01:04:49 [Morbus]

mmHmm...

01:05:34 [AaronSw]

I can't think of much more to do but sit and wait....

01:05:44 [AaronSw]

at least i've got my mailer to delete them locall

01:05:47 [AaronSw]

err locally

01:08:30 [Morbus]

hey, deltab, you want to read over something i'm going to post on evolt.org? concerns apache and ssi's. i'm about five minutes from finishing it, and would need a readover in about 10. you too aaron is you want

01:08:52 [deltab]

okay

01:09:06 [AaronSw]

i've got a few other things to straighten out first, but when i'm done. ;-)

01:10:49 [Morbus]

deltag, try to get to http://63.173.138.142/ssi%20gallery.htm

01:13:28 [sbp]

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01:13:56 [sbp]

Hey, logster's back!

01:13:58 [sbp]

Woo!

01:14:16 [AaronSw]

:-)

01:14:32 [sbp]

Did you have a nice holiday?

01:14:54 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw returns to two downed bots and 10,576 new emails

01:14:58 [AaronSw]

:-(

01:14:59 [Morbus]

heheheh

01:14:59 [sbp]

lol!

01:15:07 [Morbus]

he got hit by nimda :)

01:15:07 [AaronSw]

No, i'm completely serious.

01:15:10 [AaronSw]

:-(

01:15:23 [AaronSw]

But the holiday was great! It was like having a weekend in the middle of the week.

01:15:26 [sbp]

I know, that's why it's so funny :-)

01:15:30 [Morbus]

heheheheh

01:15:35 [sbp]

Nimda: scary thing

01:15:52 [sbp]

holiday: lucky you

01:15:52 [AaronSw]

And apparently my client reconnected 10^7 times... it's the topic at #openacs :-(

01:16:00 [Morbus]

hey, sbp, you want to readover something for me/

01:16:08 [Morbus]

http://63.173.138.142/ssi%20gallery.htm

01:16:10 [sbp]

sure

01:16:24 [Morbus]

gimme your thoughts. i'll be doing a revision and then posting to evolt.org before tonight is over

01:17:50 [sbp]

I'm not even going to speak to you again until you put "alt" attributes on those images...

01:17:57 [AaronSw]

heh!

01:18:05 [Morbus]

hehehe. fine. actually, that's a good point ;)

01:18:27 [sbp]

:-)

01:19:39 [sbp]

Chaining SSI's? Good idea!

01:20:18 [Morbus]

:)

01:24:01 [AaronSw]

Hmm, why isn't sed -e 's/\r/\n/' working?

01:24:36 [deltab]

morbus: found a &gt which should be >

01:25:07 [Morbus]

yup. refresh. its' validating now

01:28:57 [deltab]

AaronSw: sed can only work on a line at a time

01:29:10 [deltab]

what are you trying to do? change line endings somehow?

01:29:10 [AaronSw]

oh? so it won't see the \r ?

01:29:13 [AaronSw]

yes

01:29:30 [Morbus]

perl -e -i.old `s/\r/\n/' <filename>

01:29:30 [sbp]

why don't you use a Python script?

01:29:37 [deltab]

DOS to double-spaced Unix?

01:29:41 [sbp]

or Perl

01:29:46 [AaronSw]

Mac to Unix, deltab

01:29:51 [AaronSw]

Morbus does that edit in place?

01:29:51 [deltab]

ah

01:30:00 [AaronSw]

I need something to pipe it

01:30:20 [deltab]

AaronSw: it does, with .old added to the backup

01:30:31 [deltab]

just remove the -i .old

01:30:38 [tav]

sbp, in pyAdvocacy classes, they taught us that perl has it's uses, this is one of them

01:30:41 [deltab]

and add -p

01:30:50 [sbp]

yeah... I suppose

01:31:05 [AaronSw]

perl -e -p 's/\r/\n/' <filename> ?

01:31:15 [tav]

you folks really should attend good pyAdvocacy lessons

01:31:21 [AaronSw]

where, tav?

01:31:51 [tav]

they are all around us

01:32:00 [AaronSw]

So how do I attend?

01:32:08 [deltab]

AaronSw: you could use tr instead

01:32:08 [Morbus]

hehehe... any of you guys tried parrot yet?

01:32:25 [Morbus]

deltab: any thoughts on the article?

01:32:38 [AaronSw]

tr: thanks -- couldn't remember the name

01:32:46 [deltab]

Morbus: I like it

01:32:51 [deltab]

still reading

01:32:54 [Morbus]

k

01:33:11 [tav]

AaronSw: stay on the path towards python zen, and the pyAdvocacy lesson brochures will start appearing

01:33:19 [AaronSw]

heh!

01:33:44 [tav]

remember, java is the root of all evil!

01:33:48 [tav]

chant after me!

01:33:53 [tav]

java is the root of all evil!

01:33:57 [sbp]

absolutely...

01:34:02 [deltab]

s/as well as it's/as well as its/

01:34:25 [Morbus]

thanks

01:34:28 [AaronSw]

They released Parrot?

01:34:49 [tav]

heh

01:34:51 [sbp]

Hmm... Python zen: what's the sound of oen string splicing?

01:34:51 [Morbus]

yup. use.perl.org :)

01:36:59 [Morbus]

deltab: do you know if i set a description using mod_index that i could pick it up via ssi? i doubt it. twould be nice though

01:37:15 [sbp]

Well anyway, that was fun

01:43:45 [AaronSw]

Did they refactor cwm.py while I was gone? That would be a real miracle...

01:44:04 [sbp]

they split it up a bit...

01:44:10 [AaronSw]

wow!

01:46:22 [Morbus]

any final comments on this ssi thing?

01:46:29 [deltab]

yes

01:46:34 [sbp]

Yeah: go publish it... now!

01:46:37 [Morbus]

hehehe.

01:46:50 [Morbus]

i had a few hours. if i don't finish it tonight, it'll be weeks before i get back to it :0

01:50:42 [deltab]

Morbus: you mean mod_autoindex, I assume. No way that I can find, though it might be possible with an extension or something

01:51:37 [deltab]

fixed the &gt.jpg thing?

01:52:01 [Morbus]

yup, and yup.

01:52:07 [Morbus]

just adding some anal caveats now.

01:52:10 [Morbus]

added alt tags

01:52:23 [Morbus]

adding a RedirectMatch to allow /show/jack instead of show.shtml/jack.

01:53:30 [Morbus]

aaronSw, btw, if you get tinkertool, you can turn on hidden files for osx, which allows you to see .htaccess files (normally,you'd have to bbedit or shell them)

01:53:50 [Morbus]

osx/finder rather

01:53:52 [AaronSw]

oh, neat

01:54:01 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw uses the shell more than the finder, but still cool

01:54:08 [AaronSw]

I love the Pepper mlpe combo.

01:54:32 [Morbus]

the sad thing is that i've been using netfinder, so i've had to shell .htaccess, then rename it to -htaccess so Netfinder can see it, and then rename on the server end too. pain in the ass

01:55:03 [AaronSw]

NameError: 'Netfinder' not bound

01:55:32 [AaronSw]

i.e. Netfinder?

01:55:53 [Morbus]

finder ftp client

01:56:03 [AaronSw]

ahh

01:56:12 [Morbus]

deltab, refresh to see two caveats in the conclusion

01:56:18 [deltab]

Morbus: I wouldn't say flastmod and fsize perform "an action on a file"

01:56:37 [deltab]

conclusion?

01:56:49 [deltab]

<h2>Conclusion</h2>

01:56:49 [deltab]

</body></html>

01:56:54 [Morbus]

yeah, conclusion of that file. ... refresh.

01:57:19 [Morbus]

perform a "analysis"... "info request"?

01:57:41 [deltab]

not seeing any change when I reload

01:57:43 [Morbus]

uh oh. i think its caching.

01:57:54 [Morbus]

ok. i'm a moron. hold on.

01:58:24 [sbp]

to what?

01:58:32 [Morbus]

try again

01:58:44 [Morbus]

that ssi doc

02:00:56 [Morbus]

deltab, changed "action" line to something like "gets info on a file"

02:01:57 [deltab]

maybe "makes the server get info"

02:02:46 [Morbus]

makes Apache return info on a file?

02:03:06 [deltab]

yes

02:03:48 [deltab]

well, I think what you're trying to emphasize is it's the server that tries to access the file

02:05:25 [Morbus]

alright...

02:05:42 [Morbus]

"SSI commands make the return info on a file, Apache will"

02:05:44 [deltab]

the RedirectMatch not only makes the URL looks nicer, it also makes it possible to change to some other method of serving the files without changing the URLs or keeping obsolete bits in them

02:05:52 [Morbus]

(add "server")

02:06:10 [Morbus]

right. i'll add that.

02:07:11 [sbp]

I like doing random Google searches: http://www.google.com/search?q=Monkey+Flare+Nut+Google

02:07:22 [Morbus]

heh. i did that on scattergirl. lemme find a link.

02:08:09 [Morbus]

http://www.scattergirl.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000049.html

02:09:15 [sbp]

weird! http://muted.org/alx/quotes.txt

02:09:29 [Morbus]

anything else deltab? latest is on the refresh

02:09:32 [deltab]

"make the server access a file" (not the client)

02:09:35 [sbp]

excerpt:-

02:09:36 [sbp]

[[[

02:09:36 [sbp]

Spiral sex?

02:09:36 [sbp]

Fun time on the Old town tonight

02:09:36 [sbp]

Wish you were here!

02:09:36 [sbp]

Clean shaven people are better respected members of society.

02:09:38 [sbp]

I found this photograph---thought it was cool.

02:09:40 [sbp]

Dear mom, please fine enclosed a picture of my fiancee.

02:09:42 [sbp]

Dear Dad, I know you won't like this, but I lost my virginity to an animal.

02:09:44 [sbp]

Dear police: NO MORE DONUTS!!!

02:09:46 [sbp]

]]]

02:09:49 [deltab]

I'd say

02:13:09 [sbp]

Gotta run

02:13:13 [Morbus]

alright, if no more comments, i'm submitting this thing.

02:13:16 [AaronSw]

bye

02:13:17 [deltab]

and where are the DOCTYPEs, eh? :-)

02:13:28 [AaronSw]

run it thru validator.w3.org

02:13:36 [Morbus]

bwahahah.a

02:13:42 [Morbus]

i'm trying not to confuse people :)

02:14:22 [deltab]

"(think "?" is a query, so what follows after that is a string)"

02:14:45 [deltab]

huh?

02:15:22 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wonders about OS X webcam software... anyone have suggestions?

02:15:31 [Morbus]

they'll just rip out the good part.

02:15:41 [Morbus]

i use coolcam.

02:15:46 [Morbus]

classic/osx.

02:15:57 [AaronSw]

Classic? ick

02:16:04 [Morbus]

what makes you huh? about that, dt...

02:16:10 [sbp]

sbp has quit

02:16:24 [Morbus]

well, get this, the cam i have is only meant for pc. but 3com released drivers for it on the mac. drivers which only work on classic.

02:16:34 [Morbus]

and os x doesn't nternally recognize it.

02:16:45 [Morbus]

so i have to load classic to use my flipping cam even though there's an osx version :)

02:16:54 [deltab]

Morbus: the grammar, for one thing

02:17:20 [AaronSw]

yuck... i have a 3Com HomeConnect (which I got for free) and a Phillipes wacko-purple-thingy

02:17:28 [AaronSw]

err Phillips

02:17:51 [Morbus]

"mnemonic: to question someone is to QUERY, and you query them with a STRING of words.

02:17:57 [Morbus]

"

02:18:06 [Morbus]

yeah, i have the homeconnect too...

02:18:11 [deltab]

hmm

02:18:29 [Morbus]

that works for you under os x?

02:18:39 [AaronSw]

Haven't tried it yet...

02:18:46 [AaronSw]

guess i'll start with the purpleythingy

02:18:51 [Morbus]

hehe

02:18:51 [deltab]

it's called QUERY_STRING because it's the query part of the URL, as a string

02:19:09 [Morbus]

right. ok. how about i remove that line entirely.

02:19:14 [deltab]

yeah

02:19:15 [Morbus]

i'm trying to remain "userfriendly".

02:19:57 [deltab]

since it's irrelevant anyway, it doesn't matter :-)

02:20:06 [Morbus]

the evolt crowd isn't totally geeky... yeah, exactly :)

02:23:00 [deltab]

er, "plummage"? itym "plumage"

02:23:28 [Morbus]

bwaahahaha. http://www.msnbc.com/news/630583.asp

02:23:50 [deltab]

plume

02:23:50 [deltab]

n 1: a feather or cluster of feathers worn as an ornament

02:23:50 [deltab]

2: the light horny waterproof structure forming the external

02:23:50 [deltab]

covering of birds [syn: {feather}, {plumage}]

02:23:56 [Morbus]

that passed the spellchecker... what's plummage?

02:24:46 [deltab]

something to do with plums?

02:24:55 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is on 3186 of 10115

02:25:00 [AaronSw]

for his email

02:25:02 [Morbus]

hehehe to both of you.

02:25:05 [deltab]

No definitions found for "plummage", perhaps you mean:

02:25:05 [deltab]

web1913: Plumage Plumbage

02:25:05 [deltab]

wn: plumage

02:25:26 [deltab]

<h1>Your PATH_INFO is: <!--#echo var="PATH_INFO"--><h1>

02:25:33 [deltab]

uh, should be </h1>

02:25:39 [Morbus]

gotcha

02:25:51 [Morbus]

good eye, good eye ;)

02:26:54 [deltab]

<img src="..<!--#echo var="PATH_INFO"-->.jpg" alt="wonderful plummage!"

02:27:00 [deltab]

<img src="../jill.jpg" alt="look at the curls!" />

02:27:18 [deltab]

how does SSI make one into the other? :-)

02:27:40 [Morbus]

dammit, you know, i was making sure i didn't make that mistake <g>

02:27:57 [deltab]

hehe

02:28:07 [Morbus]

or, trying, rather :)

02:30:37 [deltab]

hmm, maybe the alt attribute should be based on $PATH_INFO :-)

02:31:21 [Morbus]

i do that on my live version, but i don't want to code to wrap on smaller browser widths

02:31:29 [deltab]

heh, I know - if you can stand having an extra text file for each, include ..$PATH_INFO.txt

02:31:47 [Morbus]

ah, yeah, i guess that would work...

02:32:24 [Morbus]

or, alternatively, another ssi that looks at the passed name and returns a single line from a larger db of descriptions :)

02:32:30 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw feels his way around the "imporved" stuffit website

02:32:39 [Morbus]

i think that would be "part 2"... this is a larger article than normal for evolt

02:32:44 [Morbus]

:)

02:33:00 [Morbus]

that'd be a good "how to use conditionals" article...

02:33:06 [deltab]

exec look $PATH_INFO | cut -f 2-

02:33:27 [deltab]

exec look $PATH_INFO descriptions | cut -f 2-

02:33:31 [deltab]

rather

02:33:41 [deltab]

anyway, yes

02:33:48 [Morbus]

i think i have that turned off here...

02:34:25 [deltab]

though it's lame, I think alt="image" is the best you can do simply

02:34:38 [Morbus]

actually, i've never used exec to shellcmd, so i'm not sure. is that turned on by default?

02:35:05 [deltab]

<!--#exec ... --> I mean

02:35:34 [Morbus]

yeah, i think we turned that off on the isp box due to possible security idicoy

02:35:40 [Morbus]

idiocy, rather

02:35:42 [deltab]

* deltab nods

02:36:12 [Morbus]

but the conditional thing would be easy to do...

02:36:21 [deltab]

hmm, would you want gallery pages indexed as "failure coming, I bet"?

02:36:31 [Morbus]

ok, now we're getting anal <g>

02:37:03 [deltab]

well, that was the point of the PATH_INFO thing, was it not?

02:37:12 [Morbus]

hey, shuddup <g>

02:38:05 [deltab]

hmm, I'm beginning to suspect this isn't too useful without being able to put descriptions on the page...

02:38:25 [Morbus]

ok. i'm gonna submit this. i gotta get some other stuff done

02:38:30 [deltab]

okay

02:39:15 [deltab]

leave some expertise for the consultancy work :-)

02:39:15 [Morbus]

thanks for all your help. very much appreciated. depending on how it's reacted to on evolt, i may do a part2. if evolt hates it, i'll bring it to apachetoday ;)

02:39:20 [Morbus]

bwahahahaha...

02:39:25 [deltab]

haha

02:45:59 [Morbus]

not yet public, but soon: http://www.evolt.org/article/Search_Engine_Friendly_SSI_Image_Gallery/20/15882/index.html

02:54:23 [Morbus]

welp, i'm out. gotta take a shower and wind down by reading.

02:54:40 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw finds no OS X drivers... :(

02:54:48 [Morbus]

for that 3com?

02:54:54 [AaronSw]

for either

02:55:00 [AaronSw]

Mac drivers for both, tho

02:55:03 [AaronSw]

and Linux, i think

02:55:25 [Morbus]

yeah. thats what i found too. i emailed support bout it a while ago and they just told me to watch the mac page

02:55:32 [Morbus]

we'll never see it though since its discontinued

02:55:57 [Morbus]

anyways... ciao!

02:56:07 [AaronSw]

ciao

02:56:11 [Morbus]

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03:50:03 [AaronSw]

Hi sean

03:50:25 [AaronSw]

Still going thru email...

03:50:46 [AaronSw]

Now I'm about 550 messages behind... :-(

03:51:43 [AaronSw]

Dave Winer: """

03:51:45 [AaronSw]

I'm going to say this three times so no one misses it.

03:51:45 [AaronSw]

1. If you use Windows, do not open enclosures to email messages.

03:51:46 [AaronSw]

2. If you use Windows, do not open enclosures to email messages.

03:51:46 [AaronSw]

3. If you use Windows, do not open enclosures to email messages.

03:51:49 [AaronSw]

"""

03:51:58 [AaronSw]

... "Good luck and god bless the Internet."

03:52:30 [sbp]

Heh

03:52:49 [sbp]

Gotta run

03:53:29 [AaronSw]

that was fast

03:55:50 [sbp]

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04:38:46 [AaronSw]

Pat Hayes: "I also fixed the meta tags so it passes the W3C validator, and I earned a .gif merit badge."

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05:26:55 [AaronSw]

Wow, timbl has sent me an email! I feel so appreciated! :-)

05:27:06 [AaronSw]

TimBL: "KUTGW with the semantic web!"

05:27:19 [deltab]

cool!

05:41:07 [AaronSw]

Poor Tim...

05:41:07 [AaronSw]

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300

05:42:23 [AaronSw]

Ooh, and the message is archived too! I will live in fame forever. ;-)

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14:04:43 [AaronSw]

Hmm, how'd we end up with this topic? I don't remember it...

14:06:17 [AaronSw]

From the unlogged logs:

14:06:19 [AaronSw]

*** Morbus (Morbus@s125.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined the channel

14:06:19 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> i desire conversation for 25 minutes.

14:06:19 [AaronSw]

<deltab> sorry, only 10 minute and 30 minute units are available

14:06:19 [AaronSw]

*** Morbus has quit IRC (http://www.disobey.com/)

14:06:19 [AaronSw]

<deltab> heh

14:07:29 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> its still his birthday? man. he's lucky.

14:54:36 [AaronSw]

Jeremy Carroll on the Model Theory: "I particularly liked the touch of section numbering from 0.

14:54:36 [AaronSw]

From the very first symbol in the table of contents it is clear that

14:54:36 [AaronSw]

this aims to be a serious mathematical document, rather than a

14:54:37 [AaronSw]

computer scientist's hack."

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16:09:51 [AaronSw]

Pat Hayes: "Actually, I have a secret belief that the Web is always going to consist of kludge-towers, since it is always going to be designed by the biggest committee one can imagine. Maybe the right moral to draw is that as long as we have machines which are *just* smart enough to de-kludge our interfaces, kludges that usually work are better than waiting for the killer notation."

17:04:44 [AaronSw]

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18:33:17 [Morbus]

quick note: that stupid ssi article went up on evolt.org

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19:26:00 [Morbus]

deltab, that article was linked on apachetoday :)

19:26:14 [Morbus]

and they're interested in part 2 :)

19:34:24 [Morbus]

you know, when you're around deltab, i was thinking about using mod_autoindex to supplement the image gallery - using rewrites and descripts./

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22:00:03 [sbp]

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22:00:14 [AaronSw]

Aww, you missed my MusicBrainz lecture!

22:00:23 [sbp]

Bugger

22:00:34 [sbp]

OH crap, it's Thursday! I forgot. Is the class still on?

22:01:10 [AaronSw]

no, just ended

22:01:53 [sbp]

Aaaaaaargh!

22:02:17 [sbp]

Seems as if PTS might be back on... *sigh*

22:03:00 [sbp]

Perhaps we should set an end of the year dedline, or something

22:05:56 [AaronSw]

heh... did you see the page sandro posted?

22:06:05 [AaronSw]

http://www.w3.org/2001/03/identification-problem/

22:06:13 [AaronSw]

yeah, that's it. ;-)

22:06:25 [Morbus]

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22:06:33 [sbp]

yes...

22:06:44 [Morbus]

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22:11:41 [AaronSw]

Pat Hayes on OS X: "Yep , its very sexy."

22:12:23 [sbp]

He he he

22:13:05 [AaronSw]

Did you see his last quote in the logs?

22:13:14 [sbp]

Nope

22:13:27 [AaronSw]

Aww, it was a good one

22:13:38 [AaronSw]

logster, grep Pat Hayes

22:13:41 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 9 answers for 'Pat Hayes' (showing 0...4)

22:13:42 [logster]

0) 2001-09-20 22:13:38 <AaronSw> logster, grep Pat Hayes

22:13:43 [logster]

1) 2001-09-20 22:11:41 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes on OS X: "Yep , its very sexy."

22:13:44 [logster]

2) 2001-09-20 16:09:51 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "Actually, I have a secret belief that the Web is always going to consist of kludge-towers, since it is always going to be designed by the biggest committee one can imagine. Maybe the right moral to draw is that as long as we have machines which are *just* smart enough to de-kludge our interfaces, kludges that usually work are better than waiting for the killer notation."

22:13:45 [logster]

3) 2001-09-20 04:38:46 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "I also fixed the meta tags so it passes the W3C validator, and I earned a .gif merit badge."

22:13:46 [logster]

4) 2001-09-04 19:55:21 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "The M&S doesn't seem to feel a compulsion to go on and on about recommended uses of Bananas."

22:14:00 [sbp]

?

22:14:08 [AaronSw]

??

22:14:15 [sbp]

Bananas?

22:14:31 [AaronSw]

yes?

22:14:54 [sbp]

He neglected to mention mango fruits

22:14:54 [Morbus]

10.1 is supposed to be out next week

22:14:57 [AaronSw]

four days... I can't wait!

22:14:58 [sbp]

10.1 what?

22:15:02 [AaronSw]

OS X 10.1

22:15:24 [sbp]

Oooooh! Great! Let's all jump up and down, go nuts, and throw a party

22:15:37 [sbp]

* sbp isn't bitter, not at all

22:15:42 [Morbus]

oh. you got my invitiation/

22:15:43 [sbp]

:-)

22:16:06 [AaronSw]

I suppose we can have one in the channel... hmm, when's the keynote?

22:16:19 [sbp]

I've just been stuck with run-of-the-mill (but usable) OS' all of the time...

22:16:27 [sbp]

keynote?

22:16:32 [AaronSw]

the 23rd is a ...

22:16:46 [AaronSw]

sunday?

22:16:55 [sbp]

yes

22:17:07 [AaronSw]

hmm...

22:17:24 [sbp]

why?

22:17:55 [sbp]

So, what's going to be the greatest benefit of OS X 10.1?

22:18:01 [Morbus]

speed

22:18:04 [Morbus]

webdav built in

22:18:04 [AaronSw]

http://www.key3media.com/seyboldseminars/sf2001/attendee/keynotes.shtml

22:18:10 [AaronSw]

Tuesday, September 25

22:18:10 [AaronSw]

9:00-10:00am

22:18:22 [AaronSw]

That should be when it gets introduced...

22:18:29 [AaronSw]

webdav is built in now!

22:18:31 [sbp]

anything cool? inference/proof engine built in?

22:18:40 [AaronSw]

well, duh!

22:19:03 [AaronSw]

It has XML-RPC and SOAP built in too. :-(

22:19:05 [sbp]

Really? What's it called?

22:19:12 [AaronSw]

duh?

22:19:29 [AaronSw]

Dee Universal Helper

22:19:41 [sbp]

Neat. Who's it by?

22:19:55 [AaronSw]

DUNNO.

22:19:58 [AaronSw]

More info: http://apple.com/macosx/newversion/

22:20:23 [AaronSw]

Dee Universal Notably Nagging Oaf.

22:20:58 [AaronSw]

Hmm, what movie is in http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/images/dvdplayer.jpg ?

22:21:17 [sbp]

seems alright, I guess

22:22:22 [Morbus]

why do you have a frown on the whole XML-RPC / SOAP thing, aaron?

22:22:53 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is not an XML-RPC/SOAP fan... it's not compatible with Web Architecture and REST

22:23:04 [AaronSw]

See: http://internet.conveyor.com/RESTwiki/moin.cgi/

22:23:35 [AaronSw]

Hah!

22:23:36 [AaronSw]

September 20, 2001

22:23:36 [AaronSw]

Windows XP Has Stable System; Keeps Users in Microsoft Corral

22:23:36 [AaronSw]

By Walter S. Mossberg, Wall Street Journal

22:23:37 [AaronSw]

"Software compatibility is good, but hardly perfect. Microsoft claims that 90% of the 1,200 most popular programs in North America are compatible."

22:23:49 [AaronSw]

And people complain macs don't have enough software!

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22:24:44 [sbp]

It doesn't!

22:24:52 [AaronSw]

hi eberg

22:25:45 [AaronSw]

Oooh...

22:25:46 [AaronSw]

An Anonymous Friend writes: An employee at the Apple Store said yesterday that the 10.1 upgrade would be released on the 26th or the 28th, and would "be available here at the store". Then he said "I probably shouldn't have told you that", but since my friend had just bought a dual-800 and a 22" Cinema, he must have been in a good mood. When I told another employee that I didn't want to wait for my CD in the mail once the upgrade was available, h

22:26:13 [sbp]

:-)

22:26:16 [deltab]

remember the 512-char limit

22:26:30 [deltab]

"available, h"

22:26:39 [Morbus]

another one of the internet.com sites may pick up that article too

22:26:42 [AaronSw]

his comment was "bring down some media, we'll burn it for you here."

22:26:54 [deltab]

heh

22:27:01 [sbp]

An Anonymous Friend writes: An employee at the Apple Store said yesterday that the 10.1 upgrade would be released on the 26th or the 28th, and would "be available here at the store". Then he said "I probably shouldn't have told you that", but since my friend had just bought a dual-800 and a 22" Cinema, he must have been in a good mood. When I told another employee that I didn't want to wait for my CD in the mail once the upgrade was available, hdid

22:28:11 [sbp]

nah, it didn't... crap

22:28:23 [AaronSw]

didn't what?

22:28:39 [sbp]

"upgrade was available, hdid this go over 256?"

22:28:51 [sbp]

it didn't, according to: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-20.txt

22:28:59 [sbp]

Gotta run, Monty Python!

22:29:01 [sbp]

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22:29:08 [AaronSw]

pff... that kid!

22:36:34 [Morbus]

man, this is so cool.

22:36:48 [Morbus]

i've had this bookmark for years on this game called "Nomic".

22:36:55 [Morbus]

created by a philosophy professor.

22:37:05 [Morbus]

he just flipping emailed me - he's a dedicated amphetadesk user. that's so cool.

22:37:34 [AaronSw]

Wow! Stuff like that is fun.

22:37:48 [Morbus]

definiitely

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23:08:44 [sbp]

> "upgrade was available, hdid this go over 256?"

23:08:48 [sbp]

I meant 512...

23:08:56 [tav]

?

23:09:24 [sbp]

look through the logs: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-20.txt

23:09:41 [sbp]

Monty Python was the one with the Twit competition, in case anyone was wondering

23:09:59 [AaronSw]

Oh, that's a great one!

23:11:27 [sbp]

Slightly more surreal than some of the earlier ones (which is good!)

23:12:33 [AaronSw]

Wow, I'm getting spam for hot, anonymous totally uncensored.... newsgroups!

23:12:57 [tav]

hmz

23:13:26 [sbp]

It was "The Naked Ant"

23:16:57 [sbp]

You know what type of person you are when you get spam for hot, anonymous totally uncensored... newsgroups :-)

23:19:18 [Morbus]

ack!

23:19:23 [Morbus]

that's so funny. i got hit with that twice today

23:19:39 [Morbus]

i know who does it too. when he jumps into irc, you should send him a message

23:19:50 [AaronSw]

It must be targetting AmphetaDesk users.

23:19:52 [AaronSw]

Who is it?

23:20:04 [Morbus]

daniel cody - the head misfit from evolt.org

23:20:15 [AaronSw]

He spams in his spare time?

23:20:16 [Morbus]

its a joke. we were talking about usenet, and suddenly i get spammed with it

23:20:27 [Morbus]

and then he begrudgingly confessed

23:20:31 [Morbus]

;)

23:20:43 [sbp]

Aha! The truth is out

23:20:53 [Morbus]

yup...

23:21:04 [AaronSw]

Ahh, he spammed www-rdf-comments.

23:21:13 [Morbus]

hehehe...

23:21:14 [AaronSw]

Nice URL -- quasistupid.org

23:21:20 [Morbus]

yeah, he should be on later tonight. you should pm him ;)

23:22:28 [AaronSw]

Are you sure he did it? It seems rather elaborate...

23:23:19 [Morbus]

he confessed. doesn't matter if he did, he wants to take the blame :)

23:23:23 [AaronSw]

He should know better than to spam the poor defenseless, over-spammed www-rdf-comments.

23:24:21 [AaronSw]

Registrant:

23:24:21 [AaronSw]

Treeborn,Joshua (QUASISTUPID-DOM)

23:24:21 [AaronSw]

1 wallaby way

23:24:21 [AaronSw]

Sidney, NA 00000

23:24:22 [AaronSw]

AU

23:24:35 [AaronSw]

I want an address like that!

23:24:41 [AaronSw]

One Wallaby Way...

23:24:48 [Morbus]

hehehe

23:24:55 [Morbus]

1 Angry Kangaroo St.

23:24:57 [sbp]

Heh!

23:25:09 [AaronSw]

Quick, call him:

23:25:09 [sbp]

Cool, Dave Winer logged swintro on http://www.scripting.com/

23:25:12 [AaronSw]

888-888-8888

23:25:21 [sbp]

:-)

23:28:21 [sbp]

Grpgrpggfh:-

23:28:23 [sbp]

[[[

23:28:23 [sbp]

The Semantic Web explained. Isn't it funny that the Semantic Web is one of those concepts that constantly changes in an attempt to get in front of where the Internet is going? First it was annotated Web pages and now it is XML.

23:28:23 [sbp]

5:55:45 PM

23:28:28 [sbp]

]]] - http://jrobb.userland.com/

23:28:38 [sbp]

Yeah, and "now" it's XML

23:28:38 [AaronSw]

LOL!

23:30:13 [AaronSw]

there's like hardly any XML in your paper... weird

23:30:39 [sbp]

Hmm... that's true

23:30:50 [AaronSw]

Frank sent me some good comments on SW In Breadth.

23:31:43 [sbp]

changes incorporated?

23:31:49 [AaronSw]

Not yet...

23:32:19 [AaronSw]

" I think one of the points you make that needs more

23:32:19 [AaronSw]

emphasis and development, not in your paper, but in our thinking about

23:32:19 [AaronSw]

the RDF/DAML/Semantic Web context, is the part about giving something a

23:32:20 [AaronSw]

URI, and then creating a Web page to describe it."

23:32:25 [AaronSw]

Heh, well we sure had that today on #rdfig.

23:33:47 [sbp]

Hmm...

23:35:34 [sbp]

Kick ass! swintro is required (or: covered) literature on a (apparently Dutch) KR course: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~terwijn/onderwijs/webkr/webkr.html

23:35:49 [sbp]

Oh, "Frank van Harmelen"... we know him, right?

23:35:53 [sbp]

RDF Core guy?

23:36:39 [AaronSw]

No... Frank Manola is the RDF Core guy who sent me comments.

23:37:00 [AaronSw]

Sheesh, I'm feeling so left out!

23:37:10 [sbp]

Who's Frank van Harmelen, then?

23:37:24 [sbp]

Pff, that's how I always feel :-)

23:37:27 [AaronSw]

http://www.cs.vu.nl/~frankh/

23:37:48 [AaronSw]

Interesting...

23:37:53 [sbp]

Cool, and it's the top Tech headline on http://www.bogieland.com/infodesign/

23:38:07 [AaronSw]

Frank van Harmelen: "I lead the Knowledge Representation and Reasoning group of our AI Department."

23:38:20 [AaronSw]

Are you reading referers or something?

23:38:42 [AaronSw]

good quote from bogieland

23:39:06 [sbp]

Yeah, I'm going through my server logs...

23:39:09 [AaronSw]

Ooh, Mark Bernstein's talk is up: http://www.markbernstein.org/talks/HT01.html

23:40:04 [AaronSw]

Interesting idea.

23:41:08 [sbp]

Ooh "BWSL Proposal Sean Palmer (Infomesh)

23:41:09 [sbp]

http://www.javaskyline.com/20010720.html"

23:41:24 [sbp]

(Infomesh)?

23:41:45 [AaronSw]

Well... who else do you work for?

23:42:32 [sbp]

Er...

23:43:18 [AaronSw]

Nice: http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2001-07-17-c.html

23:43:57 [sbp]

He he he

23:43:58 [sbp]

[[[

23:43:58 [sbp]

20010831

23:43:58 [sbp]

Me: "So, with these nonverbal sentences... you can use nouns, and adjectives?..."

23:43:58 [sbp]

Professor: "And numbers."

23:43:58 [sbp]

Me: "Okay. What about verbs?"

23:44:00 [sbp]

Professor: "Uhh, no... that's why they're called nonverbal sentences."

23:44:02 [sbp]

Me: "Riiiiighhht."

23:44:05 [sbp]

]]] - 20010831

23:44:06 [sbp]

Me: "So, with these nonverbal sentences... you can use nouns, and adjectives?..."

23:44:08 [sbp]

Professor: "And numbers."

23:44:10 [sbp]

Me: "Okay. What about verbs?"

23:44:12 [sbp]

Professor: "Uhh, no... that's why they're called nonverbal sentences."

23:44:14 [sbp]

Me: "Riiiiighhht."

23:44:18 [sbp]

oh, crap...

23:44:20 [sbp]

- http://scottraymond.net/

23:44:25 [AaronSw]

"multivalence is not a vice" what's that from?

23:44:46 [sbp]

Bernstein?

23:45:04 [AaronSw]

well, duh -- but what's the rest of the sentence?

23:45:17 [Morbus]

ooh, aaronSw's getting saucy

23:45:33 [AaronSw]

shut up, Morbus! ;-)

23:46:26 [Morbus]

heheheh

23:46:37 [sbp]

that *is* the sentence

23:46:49 [AaronSw]

Hmm, guess so... I remember something more for some reason.

23:47:08 [sbp]

It was part of an old talk of his...

23:47:36 [AaronSw]

*The* talk! ht99

23:47:40 [AaronSw]

http://www.eastgate.com/ht99/slides/

23:47:49 [sbp]

"*The*"?

23:48:09 [AaronSw]

Yes -- that's Bernstein's famous speech... his keynote.

23:48:16 [AaronSw]

They invented the "Bernies" after it.

23:48:36 [sbp]

Ha!

23:48:37 [sbp]

[[[

23:48:38 [sbp]

[The Semantic Web: An Introduction ]. This document is designed as being a simple but comprehensive introductory publication for anybody trying to get into the Semantic Web: from beginners through to long time hackers. Recommended pre-reading: the Semantic Web in Breadth.

23:48:43 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.schockwellenreiter.de/

23:48:49 [sbp]

See, you are listed

23:48:59 [AaronSw]

Cool.

23:49:06 [AaronSw]

<tav> i have been promised exclusive works by at least a dozen top artists in the uk

23:49:07 [AaronSw]

Wow.

23:49:28 [AaronSw]

<tav> of which 3 will be reknowned internationally

23:49:31 [tav]

yea, i was blown away by that too ;p

23:49:44 [AaronSw]

All for Espra?

23:49:47 [tav]

yes

23:49:55 [tav]

for december - january

23:50:31 [AaronSw]

nice!

23:51:24 [sbp]

Ooh

23:51:26 [sbp]

[[[

23:51:27 [sbp]

What is the Semantic Web?: Here are some possibilities: 1) Overhyped version of the next big thing; 2) Over-engineered wishful thinking that will never really be built; 3) Potentially useful. Clearly, we all hope for (3), but one can never be sure.

23:51:32 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.cham.net/

23:51:55 [tav]

hmz

23:52:08 [tav]

people need to think beyond SW

23:52:14 [tav]

SW is just one aspect of it all

23:52:54 [AaronSw]

Of what all?

23:53:13 [AaronSw]

The Espian vision?

23:53:27 [sbp]

lol

23:53:54 [tav]

laugh now!

23:54:09 [tav]

when the espians are storming the world, you shalt tremble in awe!

23:54:24 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is trembling already...

23:54:30 [tav]

there are already three espians here

23:54:33 [tav]

bwahahahahahaha!

23:54:46 [deltab]

AaronSw: he means in awe, not laughter

23:55:24 [deltab]

heh

23:55:27 [AaronSw]

Heh

23:57:20 [sbp]

Heh

23:57:37 [sbp]

I thought that the espian vison was just a part of the Semantic Web

23:57:51 [tav]

ehm, no

23:58:00 [deltab]

I think maybe they overlap

23:58:13 [tav]

semantic web kinda fits into one aspect of the espian vision

23:58:22 [sbp]

* sbp was just kidding, BTW

23:58:45 [tav]

i'm making a presentation pack btw ;p

23:58:52 [AaronSw]

presentation pack?

23:58:55 [tav]

of the whole espian vision

23:59:07 [AaronSw]

what's a presentation pack?

23:59:24 [tav]

well, the presentation pack is really for the music industry and espra

23:59:25 [AaronSw]

yeah, the espian vision is bigger than the sw vision, i suppose, since it includes physical stuff too

23:59:49 [tav]

but, i'm using it to work on the full model

23:59:50 [sbp]

the SW can identify pyhsical stuff!!!