IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-27
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:11:24 [davb]
- What is good for ripping MP3s in Linux?
- 00:12:02 [Psychephylax]
- dave hold on
- 00:12:07 [davb]
- ok
- 00:12:08 [Psychephylax]
- oh phone I will give you music
- 00:12:14 [Psychephylax]
- and places for music
- 00:12:16 [davb]
- heh
- 00:12:34 [davb]
- thanks
- 00:13:03 [Psychephylax]
- ugh
- 00:13:08 [Psychephylax]
- stupid voice recognition help
- 00:13:21 [Psychephylax]
- What happened to regular "hold music"
- 00:14:16 [Psychephylax]
- dave i think there's a problem with either OACS or AOLServer
- 00:14:42 [Psychephylax]
- Remember don trying to figure it out why it kept crapping out selecting manager from acs_privileges?
- 00:14:58 [Psychephylax]
- or perhaps my oracle install
- 00:15:05 [davb]
- yeah.
- 00:15:14 [Psychephylax]
- because it did the same thing today
- 00:15:22 [Psychephylax]
- But after a while it just started working again
- 00:15:25 [davb]
- weird.
- 00:15:27 [davb]
- Really weird.
- 00:15:32 [davb]
- People are using it though.
- 00:15:37 [davb]
- I wonder what it could be.
- 00:16:00 [davb]
- You might need to put some logging code in there to see what's happening.
- 00:17:47 [Psychephylax]
- hmmmm
- 00:20:42 [davb]
- freeamp keeps crashing.
- 00:22:22 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 00:22:25 [Psychephylax]
- you're sooo wrong :P
- 00:22:27 [Psychephylax]
- get XMMS
- 00:22:30 [Psychephylax]
- It never crashes
- 00:22:32 [davb]
- I have it.
- 00:22:38 [davb]
- Freeamp sounded cool.
- 00:22:42 [Psychephylax]
- for streaming music: http://www.spinner.com
- 00:22:55 [Psychephylax]
- and http://www.sputnik7.com
- 00:23:01 [rbm]
- rbm has quit
- 00:23:09 [davb]
- Thanks.
- 00:23:17 [Psychephylax]
- no problem
- 00:23:21 [davb]
- * davb needs some new music to work by
- 00:23:24 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 00:23:29 [Psychephylax]
- oh www.digitallyimported.com
- 00:23:37 [Psychephylax]
- I don't know if you have all the plugins installed
- 00:23:45 [Psychephylax]
- they _should_ be supported
- 00:25:16 [davb]
- cool.
- 00:25:44 [Psychephylax]
- Sure
- 00:27:56 [davb]
- Ok. I figured it out. Freeamp is not working for me. Can I get my browser to play these things in XMMS automagically?
- 00:28:28 [donb]
- donb has joined #openacs
- 00:28:37 [davb]
- Hi donb.
- 00:28:46 [donb]
- Howdy, Dave ...
- 00:29:36 [donb]
- Is "andrew" Andrew Spencer?
- 00:29:45 [Psychephylax]
- hey don
- 00:29:50 [Psychephylax]
- Psychephylax is now known as Spork
- 00:29:54 [Spork]
- Spork is now known as Psychephylax
- 00:30:15 [Psychephylax]
- Remember you trying to help me with that problem where it couldn't find manager in privileges?
- 00:30:18 [Psychephylax]
- It happened again
- 00:30:24 [donb]
- You're kidding!
- 00:30:27 [Psychephylax]
- No
- 00:30:35 [Psychephylax]
- and once again the problem went away on it's own
- 00:30:48 [donb]
- That is too weird ... which db is this, Oracle???
- 00:30:48 [Psychephylax]
- I think there might be some sort of a cache
- 00:30:51 [Psychephylax]
- Oracle
- 00:30:59 [donb]
- There must be some caching going on, yes.
- 00:31:05 [talli]
- talli has joined #openacs
- 00:31:07 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 00:31:11 [Psychephylax]
- Odd though but ok
- 00:31:25 [talli]
- hey guys
- 00:31:43 [talli]
- it's a friday night. i live in new york city. i love IRC!!!
- 00:31:46 [davb]
- hi talli
- 00:31:51 [davb]
- uh....
- 00:32:07 [talli]
- where's rbm?
- 00:32:14 [donb]
- I'm seeing some weird, caching-related results with the glossary package, where a templated page returns a different result than you'd expect from the query that I see run in the log file, both Oracle and PG ...
- 00:32:32 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 00:32:33 [Psychephylax]
- odd
- 00:32:40 [donb]
- Talli? Dial-up? Sheesh ... and you live in NYC and can't find anything better to do on a Friday night than hang out here?
- 00:32:58 [Psychephylax]
- talli me and my friend are hanging out....You up for getting drunk?
- 00:33:32 [talli]
- my mother is in town
- 00:33:39 [talli]
- how's that for extra loser?
- 00:33:41 [Psychephylax]
- She can get drunk too
- 00:33:43 [donb]
- Ohhhh....
- 00:33:51 [Psychephylax]
- :-)
- 00:34:08 [talli]
- i need to finish a proposal due monday too
- 00:34:21 [talli]
- so my life does not journey far from OPenACS
- 00:34:23 [donb]
- Poor talli ...
- 00:35:11 [talli]
- well, donb, if i lived in the thriving metropolis of portland, OR, i would be out playing music with my ewok friends.
- 00:35:20 [davb]
- Psychephylax: should I be able to open a .pls file in the browser and send it to XMMS?
- 00:35:29 [donb]
- I guess andrew's not around, eh?
- 00:35:35 [Psychephylax]
- I'm not sure
- 00:35:41 [Psychephylax]
- I don't recall how XMMS stores them
- 00:35:56 [davb]
- ok. maybe I'll read the docs one of these days.
- 00:36:06 [Psychephylax]
- I just usually "Select directory" and then it reads in all the mp3s from my dir so I can play them
- 00:36:56 [donb]
- So everyone's bought XP and uses Windows Media Player now? :)
- 00:37:29 [Psychephylax]
- no
- 00:37:33 [davb]
- Oh yeah, i forgot. That makes everything better :)
- 00:37:40 [Psychephylax]
- I use win2k, freebsd4.3 and mandrake :P
- 00:37:45 [Psychephylax]
- and win98se for games
- 00:37:48 [talli]
- on tv yesterday, i saw that XP makes people fly!
- 00:37:54 [Psychephylax]
- rofl
- 00:38:36 [donb]
- Yes, I saw that too the other day. Followed by a Southwest Airlines commercial that said "you can't e-mail a kiss, can't fax a hug" etc etc, which I thought was hilarious and which I bet didn't make MS too happy. Followed one after the other ...
- 00:39:08 [talli]
- you can't? are you saying all that porn is NOT real?
- 00:39:37 [talli]
- christ, don, you're screwing with my world!
- 00:42:12 [donb]
- Heh ... someone I know here who has OS/X on their laptop hooked it up to their DSL line and gave me root access via sudo so I could help with some admin stuff. Apparently OS X stores your browsing history (the domain names, anyway) in your /etc/hosts file. Along with the mac help, portland-oriented and similar sites in the list were a couple of dozen porn sites (obvious from their domain names). You can find out strange things about people when you
- 00:43:03 [Psychephylax]
- hah
- 00:44:20 [davb]
- darn freeamp has somehow hijacked my settings.
- 00:44:35 [Psychephylax]
- :/
- 00:44:43 [donb]
- I wonder how well XP will perform for games?
- 00:46:58 [donb]
- Ahh, well, I'm going to take off. Enjoy your mother, talli (not literally, of course!)
- 00:47:22 [donb]
- donb has quit
- 00:50:54 [davb]
- I can't get it to work.
- 00:54:05 [talli]
- talli has quit
- 00:58:07 [davb]
- aha. i have found the secret.
- 00:58:21 [davb]
- .pls playlists don't seem to work with xmms
- 01:09:05 [davb]
- brb
- 01:09:06 [davb]
- davb has quit
- 01:13:33 [davb]
- davb has joined #openacs
- 01:27:09 [davb]
- davb has quit
- 01:57:16 [rbm]
- rbm has joined #openacs
- 01:57:28 [rbm]
- AHA! I knew I had been disconnecte.d
- 01:57:30 [rbm]
- * rbm hates the USU flakey network
- 02:10:20 [davb]
- davb has joined #openacs
- 02:11:26 [davb]
- how exactly do you nework the flakeys?
- 02:15:02 [rbm]
- The morpheus and gnutella users keep screwing up thing.s
- 02:15:08 [rbm]
- Not to mention the ISS users.
- 02:15:52 [davb]
- aha. They need one of those things I saw at some trade show. You can configure it to allow a set amount of bandwidth for various protocols. pretty spiffy.
- 02:16:24 [davb]
- Of course, I think you can do the same thing with a Linux box and the right softare.
- 02:16:40 [davb]
- Aha. It was called Packeteer.
- 02:18:20 [rbm]
- or the kernel traffic shaper
- 02:18:35 [davb]
- oh yeah. same thing.
- 02:19:04 [davb]
- Anyway they can't even get their graphic designer to create graphic test correctly.
- 02:19:55 [rbm]
- they who?
- 02:20:42 [davb]
- Packeteer
- 02:21:27 [rbm]
- oh
- 02:21:47 [davb]
- * davb is tired, its not the time for jokes...
- 02:25:01 [davb]
- http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/2001/10/26/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/tbl.htm
- 02:25:01 [chump]
- C: http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/2001/10/26/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/tbl.htm from davb
- 02:25:32 [davb]
- C:|Dan Gillmor interview Tim Berners-Lee about the new MSN Compliance strategy
- 02:25:32 [chump]
- titled item C
- 02:26:21 [davb]
- Running the msn.com homepage through the validator on Friday showed the site did not use valid XHTML and did not meet the Web Content
- 02:26:21 [davb]
- Accessibility Guidelines.
- 02:26:28 [davb]
- C: "Running the msn.com homepage through the validator on Friday showed the site did not use valid XHTML and did not meet the Web Content
- 02:26:28 [chump]
- commented item C
- 02:26:28 [davb]
- Accessibility Guidelines.
- 02:26:43 [davb]
- C: Accessibility Guidelines. "
- 02:26:44 [chump]
- commented item C
- 02:39:21 [docwolf]
- docwolf has joined #openacs
- 02:39:32 [davb]
- Hi docwolf
- 02:39:34 [davb]
- C:
- 02:39:34 [chump]
- http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/2001/10/26/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/tbl.htm
- 02:39:35 [chump]
- Dan Gillmor interview Tim Berners-Lee about the new MSN Compliance strategy
- 02:39:36 [docwolf]
- good evening.
- 02:39:36 [chump]
- (davb) "Running the msn.com homepage through the validator on Friday showed the site did not use valid XHTML and did not meet the Web Content
- 02:39:37 [chump]
- (davb) Accessibility Guidelines. "
- 02:40:19 [davb]
- http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html
- 02:40:19 [chump]
- D: http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html from davb
- 02:40:29 [davb]
- D:|Launchbar for Mac OS X
- 02:40:30 [chump]
- titled item D
- 02:40:41 [davb]
- D: cool. I need this. I might have to buy a Mac.
- 02:40:41 [chump]
- commented item D
- 02:41:01 [davb]
- D: this builds a library of short abbreviations for commonly used program, web sites, etc...
- 02:41:01 [chump]
- commented item D
- 03:20:33 [davb]
- davb has quit
- 04:18:48 [rbm]
- hmm
- 04:39:22 [chump]
- chump has quit
- 04:40:28 [Psychephylax]
- wow
- 04:40:59 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax pokes rbm in the eye with a loggy the size of jerryasher coated with abbaJ
- 04:41:14 [rbm]
- AHHHHH! My eye! My eye!
- 04:41:22 [rbm]
- * rbm is doing UML hmwk
- 04:41:32 [Psychephylax]
- Oh boy!
- 04:41:53 [Psychephylax]
- Collaboration, sequence, deployment (diagrams) oh my!
- 04:42:54 [Psychephylax]
- I had fun tonight
- 04:43:41 [rbm]
- You need drugs to see this surreal stuff
- 04:44:00 [Psychephylax]
- UML?
- 04:44:07 [Psychephylax]
- I always did mine with a bottle of beer
- 04:44:23 [rbm]
- Alcohol will do as a drug :)
- 04:44:50 [Psychephylax]
- i know
- 04:45:07 [Psychephylax]
- I remember last semester I was doing one of my projects
- 04:46:35 [Psychephylax]
- and it just did not work
- 04:46:35 [Psychephylax]
- I went out Friday night and got a 12 pack of beer....Saturday night and 11 bottles later my project not only made sence it also worked
- 04:46:35 [rbm]
- heheh
- 04:48:13 [Psychephylax]
- :)
- 04:48:16 [Psychephylax]
- Try it! It works!
- 04:49:03 [Psychephylax]
- Anyone ever see "The Professional"
- 04:49:55 [rbm]
- yes. Good show.
- 04:54:20 [Psychephylax]
- show?
- 04:54:22 [Psychephylax]
- You mean movie>
- 04:55:55 [rbm]
- yes. flick, show, movie.
- 04:56:00 [Psychephylax]
- ah
- 04:56:09 [Psychephylax]
- yeah I got the DVD
- 04:56:24 [Psychephylax]
- The Replacement killers is also good
- 04:57:38 [rbm]
- Stop talking about movies! I wish I could be watching one instead of working on this @#$*(!@#%! assignment :)
- 04:57:48 [Psychephylax]
- lol
- 04:57:56 [Psychephylax]
- What's the ass-in-gnment
- 04:58:10 [rbm]
- design a bunch of diagrams for a system
- 04:58:15 [Psychephylax]
- ic
- 04:58:21 [rbm]
- class and interaction diagrams specifically
- 04:58:22 [Psychephylax]
- which diagrams and what system
- 04:58:26 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 04:58:29 [Psychephylax]
- class diagrams are easy
- 04:58:56 [Psychephylax]
- Interaction..ummmm...don't remember...you mean use case diagrams?
- 04:59:09 [rbm]
- no. sequence and collaboration diagrams.
- 04:59:23 [Psychephylax]
- ah
- 04:59:29 [Psychephylax]
- yeah sequence ones are annoying
- 08:11:43 [jerryasher]
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- graszew has joined #openacs
- 13:15:14 [davb]
- davb has joined #openacs
- 13:18:50 [rbm]
- * rbm wakes up
- 13:21:59 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax follows rbm's lead
- 13:22:34 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax pokes dave in the eye with a loggy the size of a abbaJ
- 13:23:44 [rbm]
- man it's too early for me
- 13:23:48 [Psychephylax]
- me too
- 13:23:59 [Psychephylax]
- It's 9:22 and I was supposed to go somewhere
- 13:24:00 [rbm]
- * rbm is writing a presentation about PostgreSQL
- 13:24:03 [Psychephylax]
- ANd I think my parents left
- 13:24:06 [rbm]
- It's 7:25 here :)
- 13:24:06 [Psychephylax]
- without me
- 13:24:42 [Psychephylax]
- yikes
- 13:25:17 [rbm]
- * rbm tries to make breakfast magically appear by saying "Alakhazam!", uncessucssessfully
- 13:25:39 [rbm]
- I think I have one too many "s" in there
- 13:25:52 [Psychephylax]
- yeah
- 13:25:59 [Psychephylax]
- some of them got left over from "suck" lol
- 13:26:09 [Psychephylax]
- Because your process of making food appear sucks!
- 13:26:17 [rbm]
- heh
- 13:26:18 [Psychephylax]
- Everyone knows you gotta dial the phone
- 13:26:47 [Psychephylax]
- just gotta figure out who or where to dial it to
- 13:29:49 [Psychephylax]
- i'm gonna go sleep some more
- 13:36:04 [rbm]
- :)
- 13:54:44 [davb]
- damn, I can get to MSN.com again.
- 13:55:07 [davb]
- although the new site looks pretty good.
- 13:57:05 [davb]
- darn. I got that stubborn CD to copy, but it looks like the file is corrupted.
- 14:01:36 [davb]
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- davb has joined #OpenACS
- 14:27:48 [vinod]
- vinod has joined #openacs
- 14:27:54 [davb]
- Hi vinod
- 14:29:29 [chump]
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- 14:40:57 [andrew]
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- 15:03:05 [davb]
- * davb downloads OpenFTS to attempt adding searchabilty to static-pages
- 15:04:41 [talli]
- talli has joined #openacs
- 15:04:49 [talli]
- hey guys
- 15:04:51 [talli]
- good morning
- 15:04:57 [davb]
- hi
- 15:07:24 [davb]
- hmmmm.. i don't think I have the psotgresql source. uhoh.
- 15:07:58 [rbm]
- morning
- 15:08:11 [davb]
- rbm have you looked at the search pacakge?
- 15:09:09 [rbm]
- davb: no
- 15:09:14 [rbm]
- Who's heading it?
- 15:09:18 [rbm]
- Isn't it Dan?
- 15:09:31 [rbm]
- Dan and Neophytos I mean
- 15:09:49 [davb]
- yeah.
- 15:09:58 [davb]
- Ok.
- 15:10:57 [rbm]
- davb: If Dan is heading it, there's no need for me to look at it. It's awesome.
- 15:13:17 [davb]
- I can't find the openfts-driver....
- 15:13:39 [vinod]
- hey guys
- 15:14:15 [rbm]
- davb: Isn't it in the openfts tarball?
- 15:15:41 [davb]
- could be. didn't check there...i thought it was in the CVS
- 15:15:44 [davb]
- for openacs4
- 15:16:02 [davb]
- aha!
- 15:16:04 [davb]
- thanks rbm
- 15:16:37 [rbm]
- np
- 15:20:19 [vinod]
- * vinod *loves* bandwidth
- 15:20:30 [davb]
- argh. its screwing up.
- 15:23:15 [davb]
- i think it can;t find postgresql
- 15:24:21 [vinod]
- i haven't tried to mess with search or openfts yet... sorry
- 15:24:40 [talli]
- rbm and vinod: did you get my email last night?
- 15:24:45 [talli]
- i replied to rbm's
- 15:28:19 [davb]
- Ok. how come libpq.sql in is /usr/lib?
- 15:28:37 [davb]
- libpq.so i mean.
- 15:36:31 [rbm]
- talli: yes
- 15:37:13 [vinod]
- talli: yup. got em. overall i think it looks like a great start. i'm working this wknd, so i'll reply ASAP
- 15:37:36 [talli]
- ok, cool
- 15:37:45 [talli]
- i'll write up some more thoughts in a bit
- 15:37:52 [talli]
- going to the office, so i'll do it there.
- 15:38:41 [talli]
- talli has quit
- 15:38:53 [davb]
- phew. what a pain. I got OpenFTS built.
- 15:51:52 [davb]
- oops no i didn't.
- 16:01:41 [davb]
- wowhoo.
- 16:02:02 [davb]
- What a pain. I don't know if its debian's fault for putting stuff in an unexpected place or what/
- 16:05:17 [davb]
- I created the C module, but I can't find the SQL file I need.
- 16:10:41 [davb]
- never mind.
- 16:12:04 [talli]
- talli has joined #openacs
- 16:12:38 [shagster]
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- 16:30:51 [davb]
- ok i got everything installed but I am getting an error message with OpenFTS
- 16:32:13 [yPsychephlax]
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- yPsychephlax is now known as Spork
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- Mugatu-404 has joined #openacs
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- Spork is now known as eep
- 16:33:03 [Mugatu-404]
- Mugatu-404 is now known as Spork
- 16:34:32 [davb]
- oh no, they're multiplying!
- 16:36:14 [eep]
- eep is now known as Spork^2
- 16:36:49 [Psychephylax]
- Psychephylax is now known as Spork^3
- 16:37:10 [Spork]
- I can get a few more in here and it won't clone =)
- 16:38:54 [Spork]
- ummm
- 16:39:04 [Spork]
- stupid question but why isn't #openacs registered?
- 16:39:09 [Spork]
- oh
- 16:39:13 [Spork]
- nm..needed a #
- 16:39:29 [Spork]
- Spork is now known as Psychephylax
- 16:39:51 [Psychephylax]
- ok now that my nicks are registered =)
- 16:40:06 [Psychephylax]
- Psychephylax has quit
- 16:40:22 [Spork^3]
- Spork^3 is now known as Spork
- 16:41:09 [Spork]
- :-)
- 16:41:24 [Spork^2]
- *sigh*
- 16:41:31 [Spork^2]
- time to go travel to Brooklyn
- 16:41:34 [Spork^2]
- be back l8r
- 16:41:38 [Spork^2]
- Spork^2 has quit
- 16:45:52 [talli]
- crooklyn in the house!
- 16:48:29 [adler]
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- 16:48:59 [adler]
- hola amigos
- 16:51:36 [talli]
- adler, do you work at sixgirls.org?
- 16:59:40 [davb]
- hello adler
- 17:00:33 [adler]
- talli - not exactly, though I do collaborate. why do you ask?
- 17:00:51 [adler]
- hey davb.
- 17:00:55 [talli]
- just wodnering. the org (or is it a company) seems really cool
- 17:01:05 [talli]
- i like the idea of wireless in thompkins square park!
- 17:01:31 [adler]
- yeah. John (who runs sixgirls) gave me a WavLAN card for my VAIO, but I don't think it works.
- 17:02:14 [adler]
- I wasn't all that interested before it happened, but now that it's available, it has got me all 'hot and bothered'
- 17:02:17 [talli]
- the wavlan or the wireless in thompkins?
- 17:02:24 [adler]
- just the card
- 17:02:27 [talli]
- if there is wireless there, i'm going!
- 17:02:42 [talli]
- my friend lives right there. too bad i didn't know about this summer :(
- 17:02:53 [talli]
- where in NYC are you adler?
- 17:03:03 [adler]
- Yeah, it should be working. Plus, John has IPv6 working, which can very useful in some circumstances.
- 17:03:14 [adler]
- actually, it was just installed a few weeks ago
- 17:03:23 [talli]
- cool. i'm gonna check it out!
- 17:03:40 [adler]
- I live in Brooklyn. Today, I'm in the NYPL (another place for free bandwidth)
- 17:03:41 [talli]
- my friend lives on 7th bet a and b (or is it b and c?)
- 17:03:54 [talli]
- anyway looks onto thompkin
- 17:04:02 [talli]
- they have free bandwidth there? wireless?
- 17:04:09 [adler]
- John's trying to set up a variety of wireless connections.
- 17:04:40 [talli]
- that's awesome. who is sixgirls? is it a company or an org?
- 17:04:52 [adler]
- up in the Rose Reading Room on 42nd/5th there is a beautiful large room and ethernet ports
- 17:05:02 [talli]
- killer!
- 17:05:13 [talli]
- another reason to love NYC, i guess...
- 17:05:16 [adler]
- yeah. it's the primary reason i got a tiny laptop
- 17:05:27 [talli]
- and that's not love in the fucked up, commercial giuliani/disney way either
- 17:06:06 [adler]
- sixgirls is basically just John. He's a friendly hacker who does sysadmin consulting, but mostly enjoys collaborating on fun stuff. He has many netbsd boxes set up around manhattan.
- 17:06:18 [talli]
- killer!
- 17:06:21 [talli]
- is he good?
- 17:06:30 [talli]
- we actually need a sysadmin consultant...
- 17:06:44 [adler]
- no, its the old-school, civic minded and cool architecture way
- 17:06:45 [talli]
- and we're also a bunch of friendly hackers
- 17:07:07 [talli]
- what do you do adler?
- 17:07:30 [adler]
- John is very skilled. I've learned alot from him. I'm happy to recommend him, though he enjoys doing things his own way.
- 17:07:55 [talli]
- that's cool. i have some musea needs but also some other things that i need a good sysadmin for
- 17:08:14 [adler]
- I'm a freelance web/db guy, eager to participate with OACS.
- 17:08:24 [talli]
- cool. and you're in nyc... good to know.
- 17:08:25 [docwolf]
- docwolf has quit
- 17:08:49 [adler]
- Yeah. If there's another 'social' I will appear. Perhaps with beer.
- 17:08:54 [talli]
- cool!
- 17:09:05 [talli]
- good to know. we need to set up another one soon.
- 17:09:18 [talli]
- we can always have adhoc OACS socials, you know
- 17:09:31 [vinod]
- did i hear beer?
- 17:09:37 [talli]
- the thing with the socials is sometimes people come from all over
- 17:09:47 [talli]
- like the freak show named dr. kurup
- 17:10:04 [vinod]
- i got 2 patients waiting, but i can be in nyc in 3 hrs
- 17:10:08 [talli]
- vinod, you've been to every oacs social on the east coas, right?
- 17:10:15 [talli]
- bring them along!
- 17:10:17 [davb]
- wow.
- 17:10:22 [adler]
- I'm working with the Park Slope Food coop. They could really use a OACS setup. The trouble is that don't devote a whole lot of resources to their site (just a few hours from various folks, each month) and so suggesting they explore OACS is a little grandiose, at least to their ears
- 17:10:29 [talli]
- oh, right!
- 17:10:35 [vinod]
- talli: they're kinda sick
- 17:10:36 [talli]
- we met at the boston social!
- 17:10:54 [adler]
- briefly.
- 17:11:03 [talli]
- you were speaking with pat, right?
- 17:11:23 [adler]
- yes. He revived my interest in WFMU.
- 17:11:45 [talli]
- we're working with the brooklyn museum of art right now on an acs site, so maybe you'll be able to point them to that afterwards
- 17:11:54 [adler]
- I chatted with most of the musea folks and had a nice time.
- 17:12:10 [adler]
- Actually, I'll just mention it.
- 17:12:31 [talli]
- both of the guys that we work with at BMA live in brooklyn. i spoke with one, actually, about community grocery
- 17:12:39 [talli]
- so they may be of help, too
- 17:13:27 [adler]
- Talli - how much managed hosting does musea do? Is it just a side show as a community support thing?
- 17:13:41 [talli]
- well, that's a good quetsion...
- 17:13:51 [talli]
- we going to get out of hosting because it's just too damn much work
- 17:14:08 [adler]
- that's a shame.
- 17:14:15 [talli]
- but we can do managed hosting, which would be, probably, between 500-1K
- 17:14:17 [talli]
- a month
- 17:14:18 [adler]
- but I can see how that's the case.
- 17:14:33 [talli]
- yeah, at some point i will work something out creatively to make it happen
- 17:15:03 [talli]
- but MAH (managed app hosting) usually consists of more than just "here's some space and go to it"
- 17:15:09 [adler]
- Yeah. I could pitch the ~35 /month to the coop, then sneakily start integrating templates and user-services before they knew what hit them.
- 17:15:12 [talli]
- it includes all the monitoring and backups nad updates and so on
- 17:16:07 [talli]
- let's talk about tihs some more
- 17:16:10 [adler]
- plus it comes with the panix seal of approval.
- 17:16:15 [talli]
- is john @ sixgirls expensive?
- 17:16:54 [adler]
- No, john generally goes for whatever. The issue is that he typically runs NetBSD, which doesn't mix well with AOLserver..
- 17:17:27 [talli]
- :)
- 17:17:30 [talli]
- do they like panix?
- 17:17:45 [talli]
- it's weird, those in the know and in NYC know that panix can't be beat
- 17:18:29 [talli]
- but when i suggested that we host the openacs server at panix one of the gatekeepers (i won't say who) did not respond favorably to the "level of service" at panix
- 17:18:36 [adler]
- The coop? I wouldn't quite call them 'in the know', but yeah panix has earned approval from some venerable nyc hackers..
- 17:19:42 [adler]
- I've never had any experience with them ..
- 17:20:04 [talli]
- they are very good, although they are also grouchy sysadmins
- 17:21:46 [adler]
- adler has quit
- 17:22:05 [adler]
- adler has joined #openacs
- 17:22:17 [adler]
- little glitch.
- 17:23:06 [adler]
- so you folks have some office space in downtown Brooklyn
- 17:23:07 [adler]
- ?
- 17:28:06 [adler]
- does anyone ever use OACS with lynx/links?
- 17:28:53 [talli]
- adler: our office is in DUMBO
- 17:29:31 [talli]
- Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass, for those non-hipster, nonNYC livin' OACSers. and vinod
- 17:30:06 [adler]
- do you still notice the 'wtc smell'?
- 17:31:12 [talli]
- no. and i live about 10 blocks from there in Manhattan. but my nose doesn't work very well
- 17:32:23 [adler]
- People keep remarking about it. I suggest that they would benefit from therapy.
- 17:32:46 [talli]
- yeah, i might agree.
- 17:32:52 [talli]
- i think NYC always smells weird
- 17:33:24 [talli]
- sometimes when i come out of my buildign there is a distinct smoky smell, sometimes it's a bit chemical. but mostly it's fine
- 17:33:36 [adler]
- at least it's not chinatown
- 17:34:02 [talli]
- oh christ. thank god it's not chinatown. that place actually smells like china.
- 17:34:08 [adler]
- haha
- 17:34:36 [talli]
- adler: you ever go to tonic on the lower east side?
- 17:34:58 [adler]
- i actually played there once *beems proudly*
- 17:35:03 [talli]
- whoa
- 17:35:05 [talli]
- whoa whoa
- 17:35:12 [talli]
- what do you play?
- 17:35:40 [adler]
- it's more like I am fortunate to have some serious musicians as friends.
- 17:35:50 [talli]
- nice. that's even cooler.
- 17:35:54 [talli]
- who did you play with?
- 17:36:18 [talli]
- for me, tonic and the downtown jazz scene are THE reason to love NYC
- 17:36:22 [adler]
- I was one in ~10 people on stage. I played a hand drum and some homemade electronics.
- 17:36:47 [talli]
- killer
- 17:36:58 [adler]
- yeah, that's a bonus if there ever was one.
- 17:37:11 [talli]
- my bro is a dj in California at a college radio station called KFJC
- 17:37:38 [talli]
- he did a show called "Late,Lit and Live" where he played a whole bunch of live Sexmob shows
- 17:37:49 [talli]
- he got the cds from steve bernstein
- 17:37:58 [talli]
- i'm listening to a mix of those cds right now
- 17:38:04 [talli]
- those dudes are amazing
- 17:38:29 [adler]
- I met the quasi-girlfriend of that Sexmob drummer. I was instantly in-crush
- 17:38:37 [adler]
- Kenny.. someone
- 17:38:43 [talli]
- kenny wolleson
- 17:38:54 [talli]
- one of the weirder dudes in the world. he's from santa cruz
- 17:38:59 [adler]
- I haven't heard that stuff, much.
- 17:39:05 [talli]
- sexmob?
- 17:39:08 [adler]
- right.
- 17:39:12 [talli]
- go get Solid Sender, their second album
- 17:39:25 [talli]
- they just came out with a cd called Sexmob does Bond
- 17:39:32 [adler]
- I generally mooch off my accumulator-type friend.
- 17:39:42 [adler]
- as in James Bond?
- 17:39:45 [talli]
- which is awesome. but Solid Sender is unique
- 17:39:46 [talli]
- yeah.
- 17:39:50 [talli]
- you have earphones with you?
- 17:39:54 [adler]
- yep
- 17:40:07 [adler]
- listening to mouse on mars.
- 17:40:08 [talli]
- go to sexmob.com and check out the Nobody Does it Better mp3
- 17:40:15 [talli]
- don't know them
- 17:40:37 [talli]
- medeski plays organ on that song
- 17:40:45 [talli]
- i listened to it this morning on earphones
- 17:40:49 [talli]
- it made me cry
- 17:40:59 [talli]
- literally. i had tears in my eyes
- 17:41:31 [adler]
- heh. I get that sometimes. But not generally from the jazz vein.
- 17:42:02 [adler]
- the song is tender.
- 17:42:24 [adler]
- the encoding is not so tender.
- 17:42:43 [adler]
- I'd play this at my wedding.
- 17:43:20 [talli]
- what? the sexmob song?
- 17:43:38 [talli]
- i'd play it in the midst of passion. it will be my sex songtrack
- 17:44:18 [adler]
- yeah, it may be a little too steamy for a wedding..
- 17:47:50 [adler]
- and it ends with a very post-ejaculatory mode
- 17:48:27 [talli]
- sexmob music is amazing. bernstein, the leader, is a totally obsessed with sex
- 17:49:25 [adler]
- i wish my fascination with sex could make me amazing. it generally secures a different stigma.
- 17:49:27 [talli]
- and so many of the songs are arranged using the, uhm, process of sex
- 17:50:09 [talli]
- so the beginning the song is foreplay, then it gets a little faster until it hits climax and then there's a post-coitus segment
- 17:50:13 [talli]
- it's hilarious
- 17:50:41 [talli]
- yes, i wish my perversions would bring out something unique and creative as well.
- 17:50:54 [talli]
- at least, i wish OTHER PEOPLE would recognize they were unique and creative
- 17:50:59 [talli]
- other than vinod, that is\
- 17:51:04 [adler]
- :)
- 17:51:32 [talli]
- openacs IRC on saturdays - jazz, sex and software
- 17:52:06 [adler]
- I think it would be better to be a repressed homosexual--then all the passion would be sublimated into something practical
- 17:53:08 [adler]
- this mating stuff hasn't made me any money or fame.
- 17:53:35 [adler]
- :)
- 17:54:30 [talli]
- yes, homosexual repression would be a much preferred mental state, wouldn't it. at least from a max weber, protestant productivity view point.
- 17:54:55 [talli]
- i don;t think i would enjoy wearing such tight pants, though
- 17:56:51 [adler]
- have you done much work with ecommerce package?
- 17:57:22 [talli]
- no, neither the 3.x version nor the 4 version
- 17:57:43 [adler]
- do you know of someone who has?
- 17:59:35 [talli]
- gilbert wong is working on the OACS4 version.
- 17:59:53 [talli]
- and walter mcginnis has ported the ACS3.4 ecommerce package to work with ACS4.2
- 18:00:19 [talli]
- but i must admit i'm not too familiar with anyone who worked with ecommerce 3.2.x, or OACS ecommer
- 18:00:25 [talli]
- and i pity anyone that may have tried
- 18:00:29 [talli]
- what are you looking to use it for?
- 18:00:45 [talli]
- have you looked at interchange? the ecommerce product that redhat is supporting now?
- 18:00:57 [talli]
- i beleive it is at akopia.redhat.com or interchange.redhat.com
- 18:01:30 [talli]
- it's a perl based system that supposedly works with PG and i think AOLserver
- 18:01:41 [talli]
- for sure it works with PG, i don't really know about AOLserver
- 18:01:46 [adler]
- I did take a look a little while back.
- 18:02:03 [adler]
- I want to build some auction management tools
- 18:02:11 [talli]
- cool
- 18:02:13 [talli]
- for what?
- 18:02:43 [vinod]
- shoot - i missed the perversions discussion
- 18:02:46 [adler]
- small businesses. right now, there's a jewelry company and record shop.
- 18:03:06 [talli]
- one way you might be able to get the PS food coop to think about OACS is not so much for a website but for their db aps
- 18:03:12 [talli]
- yeah, sorry vinod
- 18:03:24 [adler]
- vinod - i'm sure we're not spent.
- 18:03:25 [talli]
- i tried to get you in there. i even singled you out as a pervert!
- 18:03:38 [vinod]
- i saw that - much appreciated
- 18:03:43 [talli]
- anytime
- 18:03:58 [vinod]
- i probably shouldn't be talkin about perversions while i'm seeing patients though
- 18:04:09 [vinod]
- they think i'm weird enough as it is
- 18:04:17 [adler]
- talli- actually, i think i have to start very small with the coop. they work very incrementally there since there enormous overhead in large scale organization
- 18:04:23 [talli]
- you probably shouldn't be chatting in IRC when your seeing patients either :)
- 18:04:43 [vinod]
- talli: ssshhhh - they think i'm looking up labs or something
- 18:04:52 [vinod]
- just kidding, of course
- 18:05:13 [talli]
- adler: what i was goign to say is that the techrocks, a major foundation backed by the rockefeller fdn, is planning on building their OSS donor management system on OACS
- 18:05:44 [talli]
- so i don't know what the coop uses right now for managing its members, but within 6 months or so there will be a very powerful, free donor management system
- 18:06:24 [talli]
- i don;t know what they use right now, but if it's any of the commercial products out there then they are probably spending a lot for performance that is so so
- 18:06:45 [vinod]
- talli: cool!
- 18:07:03 [talli]
- vinod: we also can talk about your repressed homosexuality, if you would like
- 18:07:39 [adler]
- I forget what db technology they use.. probably 10 year old, custom MAC technology. It goes beyond donor management since every shopper is a member and so there is a great deal to keep track of.
- 18:08:39 [adler]
- Actually, I think they will be expanding there use of 'electronic' dbs.. and it would be great to steer them towards open source.
- 18:08:58 [talli]
- well, when they do, we would love to work with you.
- 18:09:18 [vinod]
- talli: is my homosexuality really repressed? - i've been making passes at you for months
- 18:09:44 [talli]
- i'm actually working on an RFP right now for an AIDS org in SF that delivers meals to homebound patients. they have everything in a DOS based clipper db
- 18:09:50 [talli]
- it's so bad it's funny
- 18:10:06 [talli]
- they have over 5K members, 25 staffers and 2 offices
- 18:10:18 [talli]
- but it take 3 MINUTES for the DB to process an add
- 18:11:04 [talli]
- vinod: you have??!! damn. i always miss that stuff. or maybe you're just really bad at it.
- 18:11:07 [adler]
- I need to test the waters and see how close they are to investing in new infrastructure. If it's anytime soon, I would appreciate your insite into designing/marketing such a large installation (a bit larger than what I've managed so far).
- 18:11:31 [talli]
- sure, no prob. we can talk about it whenever you would like.
- 18:11:52 [talli]
- how many members do they currently have?
- 18:12:21 [adler]
- I'm going over there this week for the first time in several months. I'll size up where they are.
- 18:12:29 [vinod]
- talli needs to start giving us marketing/business lessons
- 18:12:35 [talli]
- ha!
- 18:12:55 [talli]
- if you saw our revenue stream, you would head on over to some other IRC channel. or ban me.
- 18:13:07 [vinod]
- haha
- 18:13:38 [vinod]
- who cares about revenue - business 2.0 said it was all about hits and eyeballs and stuff
- 18:13:58 [adler]
- There are about 5k members. But there is considerable complexity in the sense that it is 'grassroots'. ever shopper is a member is a worker, so the tools end up getting used by many semi-trained personel.
- 18:14:24 [talli]
- ah. yes, well that's where roles and a good permissioning scheme comes in
- 18:15:21 [talli]
- when it comes time to discuss this stuff with them, the first move is to introduce the openacs idea. then, the very next thing you do is hand the Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing
- 18:15:36 [adler]
- Plus, since everyone must work about 3 hours a month (saving huge costs of salaries), they willoften opt for brute force solutions, rather than elegant, machine oriented ones.
- 18:15:50 [talli]
- everybuddy that reads that book immediately wants to build an ACS system
- 18:15:55 [talli]
- everybody
- 18:16:02 [donb]
- donb has joined #openacs
- 18:16:16 [talli]
- then it's important to get the ear of one of the big fancies in the org
- 18:16:25 [talli]
- like the coops don baccus.
- 18:16:37 [talli]
- whoever that guy is
- 18:16:40 [adler]
- and then that become complex, because we have to convince a large number of member that this is good thing-- not just a CIO
- 18:16:45 [adler]
- hi don
- 18:17:00 [donb]
- Looks like I've arrived in the middle of something, what's up?
- 18:17:27 [talli]
- the complex and varied strategies of convincing a slow moving nonprofit to use openacs
- 18:17:37 [adler]
- precisely
- 18:17:40 [donb]
- Oh ...
- 18:18:06 [talli]
- adler: patience is an important thing in this. for small NPO projects, we know it usually takes a 2-4 month lead time
- 18:18:26 [talli]
- for larger projects that has not yet written or defined an RFP, it's much longer
- 18:18:46 [talli]
- so as you said, a 6 month time frame for them to start thinking about this is reasonable
- 18:18:52 [adler]
- My strategy remains incremental. I've promised some basic web apps. If I can find a place to host it, I'll implement with OACS and then slowly get them hooked.
- 18:19:09 [talli]
- i'll host it for you.
- 18:19:39 [talli]
- if you can squeeze a small amount of money out of them, you'd be really surprised at how much can be done in a couple of weeks
- 18:20:03 [talli]
- so you would be able to show them a nice demo that handles multiple roles, has bboards, some basic ETP templates and so on
- 18:20:10 [adler]
- that would be excellent. I would like them to pay you for it, but i'm not sure for how long they've prepaid other hosting providers.
- 18:20:41 [talli]
- that's cool. see how much they have and we can work around that
- 18:21:15 [talli]
- but the best way to do it is to do a little infiltration and figure out what pieces of the system they simply can't do
- 18:21:20 [adler]
- excellent. at the very least, we can stick a 'built with Museatech/OACS' sticker on there.
- 18:21:27 [talli]
- sounds fine by me
- 18:22:11 [talli]
- also, try and organize a group of members who can test the system and will have postive comments
- 18:22:21 [adler]
- supposing that they appreciate the site, they should ditch the old hosting provider and move all the static stuff over and at least pay you what they pay them.
- 18:22:42 [talli]
- so if you could get 15-20 members to log on to the system, post some content to the bboards, etc
- 18:22:57 [talli]
- what's the site's current URL?
- 18:23:02 [adler]
- I work on the 'web committee'. I think the OACS will solve some of the problems they are working on.
- 18:23:36 [adler]
- Plus, i'm likely to pour many hours into to the site since it now provides an opportunity to be intimate with the OACS (something I've wished for quite some time)
- 18:23:51 [talli]
- hey now
- 18:23:55 [talli]
- don't get all vinod on us.
- 18:24:06 [adler]
- http://www.foodcoop.com
- 18:24:06 [chump]
- A: http://www.foodcoop.com from adler
- 18:24:11 [talli]
- participating is one thing. "intimate" is a whole other one :)
- 18:24:11 [adler]
- whoops
- 18:24:31 [adler]
- I'm just a passionate fella.
- 18:24:38 [adler]
- D
- 18:24:46 [adler]
- how do i describe that link?
- 18:24:56 [talli]
- that's ok.
- 18:24:58 [talli]
- :)
- 18:25:22 [talli]
- AaronSw: Park Slope Food Coop
- 18:25:36 [adler]
- nice try.
- 18:25:43 [talli]
- weird, this peace and protection skin for my mIRC client screws with that
- 18:26:01 [adler]
- AaronSw: Park Slope Food Coop - for crunchy, organic, Brooklyn types
- 18:26:21 [talli]
- well, you're *suppsed* to take the letter and the colon of the link and write a comment after it
- 18:26:25 [talli]
- so A: something
- 18:26:34 [adler]
- ah
- 18:26:43 [adler]
- A: Park Slope Food Coop - for crunchy, organic, Brooklyn types
- 18:26:43 [chump]
- commented item A
- 18:26:47 [adler]
- done.
- 18:27:03 [adler]
- what's up with permissions scalability these days?
- 18:27:13 [donb]
- Good question...
- 18:27:14 [talli]
- it seems that there is already some personalization functionality in there
- 18:27:49 [talli]
- scalability in general is a bit of a scary issue in OACS4
- 18:28:08 [talli]
- not because it's bad, but it seems that no one really knows
- 18:28:20 [talli]
- how has furfly's ACS4 sites been doing, don?
- 18:28:42 [adler]
- is this an issue of not yet testing on a large scale install?
- 18:29:11 [talli]
- more or less, from what i understand, yes
- 18:29:45 [talli]
- adler: what personalization stuff is foodcoop.com running now? it looks like cgi/perl stuff, yeah?
- 18:30:20 [donb]
- They're really not that busy. NY Review gets plenty of traffic but doesn't make all that heavy use of ACS 4 other than the CMS with a custom UI. Granta makes heavier use of ACS community features like bboard, but they don't get much traffic. I don't think Granta's done much pushing of the site. These literary types, you know ... for them the big deal was being able to use the CMS to generate content in London with editorial staff, rather than ship
- 18:30:21 [talli]
- i like the URLs it generates, at least. they are at least 900 chars long :)
- 18:30:24 [donb]
- publish onsite.
- 18:30:30 [adler]
- i think there is some of that. I could implement the new stuff with cgis, but I'd much prefer digging into OACS
- 18:31:20 [talli]
- i am so proud that the pre-eminate lefty publication of the US runs ACS
- 18:31:33 [talli]
- any chance they'll ever switch to OACS and PG, don?
- 18:31:54 [donb]
- You talking about the NY Review of Books being ultra-lefty?
- 18:31:58 [talli]
- yeah
- 18:32:07 [adler]
- talli - are you talking about the classifieds?
- 18:32:09 [talli]
- well, not ultra-left
- 18:32:21 [talli]
- adler: yes
- 18:32:57 [adler]
- they were so happy to get access to free cgis. if only they knew about what was available.
- 18:33:03 [donb]
- I don't think they'll switch to PG at this point, they've paid for Oracle. The tech guy in charge there was interested in PG but wanted the CMS and this was a year ago so ... no choice.
- 18:33:08 [talli]
- donb: i don't trust radical leftists that are still waiting for the revolution. i prefer the dumb chimp dubyah to the crazy spartacists
- 18:33:27 [talli]
- donb: how did you guys implement the CMS?
- 18:33:50 [adler]
- talli- when the revolution comes, we can no longer be friends
- 18:34:25 [talli]
- adler: sorry comrade. by the time the revolution comes, i will already have converted to islam.
- 18:34:56 [donb]
- Janine did all the work. I was busy first with CQMi (the members-only site for the Center for Quality of Management, a nice capitalistic counterbalence to NY Books) and then the SloanSpace stuff.
- 18:35:06 [donb]
- Another counterbalance, come to think of it.
- 18:35:07 [adler]
- we all know you're doing it only for the polygamy
- 18:35:25 [talli]
- the polygamy and the couscous
- 18:35:46 [adler]
- i might be arabic for halloween.
- 18:36:00 [donb]
- CQM - a non-profit that helps its poor members (come to think of it, HP is rapidly becoming poor, I wonder if it's because of TQM?)
- 18:36:07 [talli]
- nice. maybe you should carry a box cutte too
- 18:36:37 [adler]
- TQM?
- 18:36:41 [talli]
- donb: CQM sounds like the same kind of nonprofit that Sloan and Harvard is
- 18:36:48 [donb]
- We had an quote-unquote anthrax scare about ten blocks away from me two nights ago ...
- 18:36:52 [talli]
- sloan and harvard are, sorry
- 18:37:05 [adler]
- don - you're out west, right?
- 18:37:09 [talli]
- donb: what happened?
- 18:37:29 [donb]
- TQM - Total Quality of Management - a management philosophy.
- 18:37:36 [donb]
- Yes, I'm out west...
- 18:38:38 [talli]
- donb: so you were a member of the famed spotted owl protest and action? nice. how did you guys pull it off?
- 18:38:52 [donb]
- Someone left a paper bag in a 7-11 parking lot boldly marked "ANTHRAX!". I was driving up the boulevard and saw the police tape surrounding the parking lot, people milling around, etc. I thought there must've been a murder/robbery on the store or something and was kind of bummed since it's not usual here.
- 18:39:10 [donb]
- one story at a time - anyway I found out the next day the paper bag had an empty six pack in it ...
- 18:39:28 [talli]
- mmm... anthrax beer.
- 18:39:33 [adler]
- gents- I must be going, but it's be horrendously fun while it lasted.
- 18:39:42 [donb]
- Yes, I was on the board of Portland Audubon at the time, proud to be the second largest chapter in the country and co-plaintiff (with Seattle Audubon) of the famous spotted owl suit.
- 18:40:08 [donb]
- I was disappointed that I never got any death threats.
- 18:40:28 [adler]
- donb - I am obliged to thank you for the work you're doing, since I've not yet done so.
- 18:40:46 [donb]
- Hey, thanks! A lot of folks are doing good work here ...
- 18:40:46 [adler]
- talli- i'll be in touch re: PSFC
- 18:41:03 [adler]
- and you're not so useless yourself, talli
- 18:41:05 [talli]
- cool. drop me a line at my email
- 18:41:12 [talli]
- i am though!
- 18:41:17 [adler]
- we'll see abou that.
- 18:41:18 [talli]
- i can't even install PG!
- 18:41:29 [adler]
- * adler smacks forehead
- 18:41:34 [donb]
- Really, he is, he thought Redbones had better BBQ than Blue Ribbon ...
- 18:41:47 [vinod]
- mmm redbones...
- 18:41:58 [donb]
- Blue Ribbon, far superior...and cheaper.
- 18:42:12 [vinod]
- yeah, i like blue ribbon better, but the beer is better at redbones
- 18:42:22 [adler]
- enough salivating. I'm gone. See yall later.
- 18:42:25 [adler]
- adler has quit
- 18:42:37 [donb]
- Redbones is a far superior hangout, that's for sure ...
- 18:43:08 [talli]
- i never said that redbones had better bbq - just that i had never been to blue ribbon
- 18:43:21 [talli]
- now that i have had blue ribbon, i agree wholeheartedly
- 18:43:33 [donb]
- It's a good thing you do!
- 18:43:39 [talli]
- but redbones and beer....
- 18:43:50 [donb]
- We have a lot of great beer here in Portland ...
- 18:43:56 [vinod]
- i'll be back - off to lunch
- 18:43:59 [talli]
- * talli passes out from an ecstatic fantasy
- 18:44:18 [talli]
- yeah, that's why redbones is so cool - they have oregon beers
- 18:44:51 [talli]
- what's up with that anyway? have all the oregon hippies moved over to brewing good beer from growing good weed?
- 18:45:16 [donb]
- Well ... "moved over" isn't probably the right expression, "diversified" might be better ...
- 18:45:39 [talli]
- haha
- 18:46:25 [donb]
- Oregon was the first state to pass a modern microbrew law, i.e. lifted the prohibition against a brewery owning a pub and selling its beer directly (making small batch production more profitable). Lifted that prohibition that dated from the lifting of Prohibition, speaking recursively (and accurately).
- 18:46:59 [talli]
- nice
- 18:47:01 [donb]
- The big brewers got that into the repeal of Prohibition ... small breweries were the norm early this century.
- 18:47:20 [talli]
- hmm.. i didn't know that. one more reason to hate Bud
- 18:47:45 [donb]
- It was two old hippies actually that got it passed. They'd owned a pub called Produce Row (still around, near me) that carried tons of European beers and wanted to brew and sell their own.
- 18:48:03 [talli]
- killer!
- 18:48:35 [talli]
- good to know hippies can actually get off their asses and pull something off! of course, they may not have been stoners...
- 18:48:54 [talli]
- btw, remember when i told you about the mess at tufts with their janitors when i was a student there?
- 18:49:01 [donb]
- Now they own 20-30 pubs here in town, including two movie theaters. One, the Bagdhad, is in my neighborhood. Classic mid-30s ornate theatre that had gone broke. They bought it, spent $300,000 restoring it, took out every other row and put in tables so you can eat, drink beer, and enjoy a second-run movie ...
- 18:49:03 [talli]
- they're pulling the same stunt again
- 18:49:10 [donb]
- Are they really? Grrr ...
- 18:49:11 [talli]
- whoa
- 18:49:18 [talli]
- that is killer!
- 18:49:21 [talli]
- http://www.justiceforjanitors.org/campaign/fastfacts_tufts.cfm
- 18:49:21 [chump]
- B: http://www.justiceforjanitors.org/campaign/fastfacts_tufts.cfm from talli
- 18:50:08 [talli]
- note: SEIU has decided to not use OACS in favor of CFM because CFM provides "more rapid development" and allows "non-programmers" to build apps
- 18:50:15 [talli]
- another grr...
- 18:50:32 [donb]
- They also own what used to be the poor farm, in essence, and rent rooms, have a couple of restaurants, big fields for playing frisbee, etc etc.
- 18:50:58 [donb]
- Bummer about SEIU...they'll learn soon enough that this ain't true. Who sold them that line? The Taliban?
- 18:50:59 [talli]
- whoa, they sound cool! what are their names. ben and jerry? :)
- 18:51:58 [talli]
- the taliban prefer living in the past where they can revel in the beauty of ancient tools. so they usually advocate the use of COBOL and Pascal
- 18:52:04 [donb]
- The McMennamin brothers. Ironically, their beer's not really that good. Nor is their food. But they do a lot of cool things. They also own an old elementary school in town that has rooms you can rent to stay overnight (The Detention Room, etc).
- 18:52:25 [talli]
- i believe it was an oil consortium that convinced SEIU to use CFM after Java achieved no traction
- 18:52:33 [donb]
- Heh.
- 18:52:42 [donb]
- At least they didn't fall for ACS Java.
- 18:53:23 [donb]
- I need to get going pretty soon, I'm procrastinating instead of working
- 18:53:30 [talli]
- you too? :)
- 18:54:12 [donb]
- Yeah, I just filed 80 slides that I labelled a couple of days ago (there are 80 labels per page) and now I have to sort slides on my light table.
- 18:54:26 [talli]
- nice. bird slides?
- 18:54:40 [donb]
- Some. Travel slides from cruising across Canada this summer, too.
- 18:54:59 [talli]
- cool
- 18:55:15 [talli]
- all right, i need to get some food and try to make some money
- 18:55:17 [talli]
- talk to you later.
- 18:55:22 [donb]
- Tedious, though ... I could never sell stock for a full-time living...
- 18:55:29 [donb]
- later, talli ... bye all.
- 18:55:32 [donb]
- donb has quit
- 18:55:38 [talli]
- talli has quit
- 19:16:03 [ola]
- ola has joined #openacs
- 19:16:29 [ola]
- hi
- 19:19:18 [davb]
- hi ola
- 19:21:11 [ola]
- so how's your secret "gig" coming along?
- 19:21:52 [davb]
- Not bad. I have to work some more on the graphics.
- 19:26:23 [ola]
- cool. are you self taught when it comes to graphics or do you have a formal education?
- 19:26:33 [ola]
- * ola longs for his first customer to come along, *sigh*
- 19:26:56 [ola]
- I have my own site to work on in the meantime, I suppose...
- 19:28:22 [ola]
- * ola woners if his brother has finished the work on the content :-))
- 19:28:53 [ola]
- s/woners/wonders
- 19:32:21 [davb]
- heh
- 19:32:23 [davb]
- me too.
- 19:32:32 [davb]
- This guy isn't paying yet.
- 19:32:51 [davb]
- I took graphic design for 2 years. I learned a little.
- 19:33:23 [davb]
- I learned more actually doing stuff.
- 19:33:40 [ola]
- aha.
- 19:34:16 [davb]
- Right now I am using my skills to make the chest part of a Darth Vader costume :)
- 19:35:31 [ola]
- COOL!
- 19:35:50 [ola]
- can you make him speak too? :-)
- 19:36:32 [ola]
- or isn't this for the web?
- 19:36:40 [davb]
- Maybe. We have a toy that can do a kinda deep voice. Maybe if I take it apart.
- 19:36:48 [davb]
- No, this is for a real live person.
- 19:37:34 [ola]
- that's even more cool.
- 19:37:49 [ola]
- is Gimp any good in your opinion or shall I go with Photo Shop?
- 19:37:49 [davb]
- we'll see...I hope so.
- 19:38:39 [davb]
- Depends. For buttons and stuff, gimp is good. If you are willing to work with Script-Fu, its very good. Photoshop is better for photo editing.
- 19:39:09 [davb]
- I use Macromedia Fireworks for web work though. If its a photo, i prepare it in Photoshop and finish with Fireworks.
- 19:40:53 [davb]
- ola: did you ever get the search package working?
- 19:41:20 [ola]
- yes, for notes, that is.
- 19:41:37 [ola]
- about a month ago..
- 19:41:55 [davb]
- hmm. I created the AOLserver module and its loading. I installed OpenFTS-driver from the APM, but its not showing up in the list of installed packages...
- 19:43:09 [ola]
- hmmm... have you visited the service-contract page?
- 19:43:59 [davb]
- yes. All the service-contracts are in there. According to Gilbert Wong's doc he wrote, you need to mount Openfts-driver in the site map. does that sound right?
- 19:48:46 [ola]
- well, it rings a bell. I think that was what I did.
- 19:49:10 [ola]
- but it isn't available, you say...
- 19:50:03 [davb]
- right. I did install new packages. It went through and said OpenFTS driver installed sucessfully. I restarted the server and its not there.
- 19:50:15 [davb]
- I will have to do more work to figure out what is happening.
- 19:52:06 [ola]
- you've probably read this...:http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002er&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12
- 19:56:20 [ola]
- I remenber that the ORDER in which you did things like mounting "stuff" and regitering the contracts mattered more than I at first realized...
- 19:56:55 [davb]
- ok.
- 19:57:21 [davb]
- like "Search"?
- 19:59:22 [ola]
- I can't remember, the gory details. sorry! :-(
- 20:00:07 [davb]
- np
- 20:10:02 [k2pts]
- k2pts has joined #openacs
- 20:10:57 [k2pts]
- hi everybody
- 20:11:06 [davb]
- hi!
- 20:11:14 [k2pts]
- davb: have you had any success with the search package?
- 20:11:25 [ola]
- hi k2pts.
- 20:11:33 [k2pts]
- I was busy with stuff all day and I am reading the forums and the logs right now.
- 20:11:34 [k2pts]
- hi ola
- 20:12:26 [davb]
- heh, we were just discussing that.
- 20:12:38 [k2pts]
- yes I have read that (started reading from the end)
- 20:12:50 [davb]
- I got the nsfts aolserver module compiled and load.sql applied to my database.
- 20:13:04 [k2pts]
- ok, now you need to install openfts-driver
- 20:13:32 [davb]
- Right, I tried to install notes, serach and openfts-driver all at the same time. is this not the way?
- 20:13:49 [k2pts]
- np
- 20:14:02 [k2pts]
- search is a core package
- 20:14:21 [davb]
- because after I install openfts-driver, it does not appear in the APM list of installed packages.
- 20:15:37 [k2pts]
- let me check
- 20:15:51 [davb]
- BUT, the contracts are listed in acs-service-contract.
- 20:16:08 [davb]
- thanks
- 20:16:38 [k2pts]
- it's there under services
- 20:16:47 [davb]
- duh
- 20:17:08 [k2pts]
- ok, install the contracts and mount openfts-driver
- 20:17:12 [davb]
- wow, there's all kinds of stuff in there. I should pay more attention.
- 20:17:15 [davb]
- ok.
- 20:17:40 [davb]
- install the contracts first?
- 20:17:50 [k2pts]
- doesn't matter
- 20:17:59 [davb]
- ok
- 20:18:43 [k2pts]
- have you restarted aolserver since you installed openfts-driver?
- 20:19:15 [davb]
- Yes.
- 20:19:25 [k2pts]
- ok, let me know when you are done
- 20:19:26 [davb]
- Ok. I see what happened.
- 20:19:35 [davb]
- I created a subfolder
- 20:19:41 [davb]
- then looked under "new application"
- 20:19:43 [davb]
- its not there.
- 20:19:47 [k2pts]
- mount
- 20:19:48 [davb]
- its under mount->
- 20:20:06 [davb]
- "these are services and probably should not be mounted..."
- 20:20:09 [davb]
- Ok. so its there.
- 20:20:16 [k2pts]
- yes, go ahead
- 20:20:46 [davb]
- i installed all the contracts.
- 20:21:04 [k2pts]
- go to openfts-driver
- 20:21:08 [k2pts]
- admin
- 20:21:13 [k2pts]
- initialize engine
- 20:21:20 [k2pts]
- accept default settings
- 20:22:03 [k2pts]
- ack
- 20:22:27 [davb]
- good.
- 20:22:50 [k2pts]
- restart aolserver so that the contract bindings will take effect
- 20:22:54 [davb]
- Ok.
- 20:23:23 [davb]
- This is easy. Compiling the module was tricky. It didn't like any of my file locations.
- 20:24:45 [k2pts]
- you mean nsfts
- 20:24:46 [k2pts]
- ?
- 20:25:52 [davb]
- yes
- 20:26:10 [davb]
- hmmm. I got the same error.
- 20:26:18 [k2pts]
- what error?
- 20:26:48 [davb]
- invalid command name "Search::OpenFTS::Index::init"
- 20:26:48 [davb]
- while executing
- 20:26:48 [davb]
- "Search::OpenFTS::Index::init opt"
- 20:26:48 [davb]
- invoked from within
- 20:26:48 [davb]
- "array set idx [Search::OpenFTS::Index::init opt]"
- 20:26:49 [davb]
- ("uplevel" body line 35)
- 20:26:50 [davb]
- invoked from within
- 20:26:52 [davb]
- "uplevel {
- 20:26:54 [davb]
- ad_page_contract {
- 20:26:58 [k2pts]
- ok
- 20:27:22 [k2pts]
- post the directory where the source code of openfts is
- 20:28:13 [davb]
- mine? tmp/Search-OpenFTS-tcl-0.2/aolserver
- 20:28:49 [k2pts]
- ok, goto the parameters of openfts-driver and change the default to /tmp/Search-OpenFTS-tcl-0.2/
- 20:29:08 [davb]
- ok.
- 20:29:22 [k2pts]
- it would be easier if you had followed the guidelines in www/doc/INSTALL
- 20:30:32 [davb]
- heh. I am not the best at reading instructions. I am impatient. :)
- 20:30:45 [k2pts]
- aren't we all? when you are done, restart aolserver.
- 20:31:11 [davb]
- right.
- 20:31:12 [k2pts]
- upon restart the openfts-driver will source tcl libraries from /tmp/Search-OpenFTS-tcl-0.2/
- 20:32:16 [davb]
- Aha. I didn't know it was looking for that. Is that a good idea to require the source to stick around? For example. I compile and install everything on a development server. Then move the site over to production, but I don't copy /usr/local/src directory...
- 20:32:31 [davb]
- Great! it works!
- 20:32:52 [k2pts]
- you mean the initialization, right?
- 20:33:51 [k2pts]
- davb???
- 20:34:47 [k2pts]
- davb wrote: Is that a good idea?
- 20:35:36 [k2pts]
- you can always copy the openfts tcl libraries into openfts-driver/tcl but I thought that this is the best way to update to newer versions of openfts
- 20:36:01 [davb]
- Right
- 20:36:09 [davb]
- Ok. I will just have to read the instructions.
- 20:36:14 [davb]
- Thanks for putting up with me!
- 20:36:19 [k2pts]
- np
- 20:36:47 [k2pts]
- to index/search notes: install notes, make new application node, and then add some notes
- 20:37:08 [k2pts]
- in 30 seconds they will be indexed and you should be able to search
- 20:37:19 [davb]
- Cool
- 20:38:04 [k2pts]
- let us know if you succeed
- 20:38:12 [ola]
- we will have a choice to store pages in the db OR in the file system with static-pages, right?
- 20:38:19 [k2pts]
- right
- 20:38:31 [k2pts]
- actually, you can try that right now with cms
- 20:38:36 [ola]
- am I going to be able to search my pages with OpenFTS if I choose "file system storage" for my pages?
- 20:38:49 [ola]
- ok. cool.
- 20:39:07 [k2pts]
- first, try the notes package
- 20:39:14 [k2pts]
- and then we will try with cms
- 20:39:18 [k2pts]
- it should work with both
- 20:39:58 [k2pts]
- ola wrote:we will have a choice to store pages in the db OR in the file system with static-pages, right?
- 20:40:03 [k2pts]
- right, or lob
- 20:40:18 [davb]
- ola: no.
- 20:40:54 [k2pts]
- the search package supports all three given that the other package (e.g. static-pages) support that
- 20:40:59 [davb]
- ola: no you can't choose for static-pages. Yes they are searchable. or will be.
- 20:41:21 [k2pts]
- davb: right
- 20:41:51 [k2pts]
- ola: you can try all three (filesystem,db,lob) using cms and creating cr_revisions.
- 20:42:34 [k2pts]
- the next release cycle will include stuff like indexing pdf and other format files (given the right converter)
- 20:42:35 [ola]
- k2pts: ok, good.
- 20:42:46 [davb]
- I think I did something silly with static-pages.
- 20:42:53 [k2pts]
- what's that?
- 20:43:01 [davb]
- THe old version kept a copy in the db and served content from there.
- 20:43:08 [davb]
- So it compared the db copy with the file copy.
- 20:43:32 [davb]
- Now what it does is retrieve the db copy from the filesystem and compare it with itself.
- 20:43:56 [k2pts]
- ok
- 20:44:12 [k2pts]
- have you tried the search package with notes?
- 20:44:13 [davb]
- We might need to store the text in the db to compare to see when a file changes so it can be reindexed.
- 20:44:18 [davb]
- Almost there.
- 20:44:38 [k2pts]
- davb: right
- 20:45:07 [talli]
- talli has joined #openacs
- 20:45:13 [k2pts]
- on a second thought, almost right
- 20:45:23 [k2pts]
- there are ways to go around that
- 20:45:30 [k2pts]
- but let us know worry about it right now
- 20:45:31 [k2pts]
- hi talli
- 20:45:37 [talli]
- hey
- 20:45:42 [k2pts]
- s/know/not
- 20:45:55 [davb]
- ok, i have no problem with that :)
- 20:46:13 [k2pts]
- ok waiting for the notes test results
- 20:46:31 [ola]
- hey talli
- 20:46:35 [davb]
- uhoh
- 20:46:36 [davb]
- Database operation "0or1row" failed (exception NSDB, "Query was not a statement returning rows.")
- 20:46:36 [davb]
- while executing
- 20:46:36 [davb]
- "ns_pg_bind 0or1row nsdb0 {
- 20:46:36 [davb]
- select count(*)
- 20:46:36 [davb]
- from txt
- 20:46:37 [davb]
- where
- 20:46:39 [davb]
-
- 20:46:42 [davb]
- ( txt.fts_index @ '{2539164}' )
- 20:46:49 [davb]
- when I type a serach term and hit search i am getting that.
- 20:47:29 [k2pts]
- have you added "ns_param nsfts ${bindir}/nsfts.so" to nsd.tcl
- 20:48:19 [k2pts]
- correction: check that the directories in load.sql correspond to your installation
- 20:48:31 [k2pts]
- s/directories/paths
- 20:48:59 [davb]
- Ok.
- 20:49:10 [davb]
- It said CREATE CREATE when I ran it. I had to fix them.
- 20:49:11 [k2pts]
- davb: can I have your attention for a while? a few questions
- 20:49:25 [davb]
- and yes the nsfts.so is loading.
- 20:49:28 [davb]
- k2pts: Sure.
- 20:49:39 [k2pts]
- did you do "gmake install-all-headers"
- 20:50:08 [davb]
- For postgresql? No I cheated. I am using Debian. I am the Debian pain in the ass tester :)
- 20:50:28 [davb]
- I installed the postgresql-dev package. Which is the headers.
- 20:50:53 [k2pts]
- don't know I always compile. gmake install-all-headers is needed in order to compile the intarray module under the postgresql contrib directory
- 20:51:18 [k2pts]
- the message you get shows that the intarray package was not compiled correctly
- 20:51:54 [davb]
- Right. I also installed postgresql-contrib.
- 20:52:01 [davb]
- Aha, but I stupidly did not compile it.
- 20:52:02 [k2pts]
- @ is the "contains" operator for arrays of integers
- 20:52:19 [k2pts]
- ok try do it now
- 20:53:22 [davb]
- aha. I am missing something to compile it....
- 20:53:38 [k2pts]
- what's that
- 20:54:01 [k2pts]
- probably spi.h (which is installed when you do gmake install-all-headers)
- 20:54:17 [davb]
- Database operation "0or1row" failed (exception NSDB, "Query was not a statement returning rows.")
- 20:54:17 [davb]
- while executing
- 20:54:17 [davb]
- "ns_pg_bind 0or1row nsdb0 {
- 20:54:17 [davb]
- select count(*)
- 20:54:17 [davb]
- from txt
- 20:54:18 [davb]
- where
- 20:54:20 [davb]
-
- 20:54:22 [davb]
- ( txt.fts_index @ '{2539164}' )
- 20:54:26 [davb]
- oops
- 20:54:28 [davb]
- include $(top_builddir)/src/Makefile.global
- 20:54:30 [davb]
- is missing.
- 20:54:38 [davb]
- because I don;t have the postgresql src. :)
- 20:54:55 [k2pts]
- well, you will need that to compile intarray
- 20:55:18 [davb]
- yes. THis is fun. I can help GEM and rbm install search on their debian systems
- 20:56:03 [k2pts]
- personally, I like to download the postgresql tarball and then just compile what I need
- 20:56:19 [davb]
- Right.
- 20:56:23 [davb]
- I think that is a good idea.
- 20:56:59 [davb]
- looks like I have to do that. There does not seem to be a source package for debian.
- 20:59:34 [k2pts]
- ok, everything will work ok when you get the intarray stuff compile. you will probably need to reload load.sql and you might need to drop the things you created earlier (when you run load.sql)
- 20:59:49 [davb]
- thanks alot.
- 21:01:39 [k2pts]
- let me know when you are ready. I will be available for a bit longer tonight (midnight here in Cyprus), otherwise we will have to continue tomorrow. However, you only need my help if you need to drop stuff that you created earlier with load.sql (without intarray compiled).
- 21:02:05 [davb]
- Thanks. Don't worry about me. Now that I know what I need to do, I will figure itout.
- 21:03:02 [k2pts]
- you can always try on a fresh oacs installation. follow the www/doc/INSTALL guidelines and it will be ok. most of the things are already there so you won't have to replicate effort (like compiling nsfts etc)
- 21:03:37 [k2pts]
- here are the steps now that you have compiled nsfts and running:
- 21:03:37 [davb]
- right. I will probably do that. I am an expert at reloading the datamodel.
- 21:03:43 [k2pts]
- :)
- 21:03:49 [k2pts]
- a. gmake install-all-headers
- 21:03:50 [k2pts]
- b.
- 21:03:54 [k2pts]
- b. install intarray
- 21:04:16 [k2pts]
- c. the steps we did together to install openfts-driver and the contracts
- 21:05:04 [k2pts]
- d. change the parameter (if you insist on /tmp/Search-OpenFTS-tcl-0.2/)
- 21:05:16 [davb]
- heh I moved it :)
- 21:05:29 [k2pts]
- e. try to search some notes
- 21:05:45 [k2pts]
- f. try to create some cr_revisions and then search for them.
- 21:05:59 [k2pts]
- that's it
- 21:06:10 [davb]
- Great.
- 21:06:33 [k2pts]
- I like to demonstrate stemming to my friends. they think it's cool
- 21:06:56 [k2pts]
- create a note with body "this is a test" and then search for "testing"
- 21:07:00 [davb]
- You have interesting friends.
- 21:07:04 [davb]
- Cool.
- 21:07:06 [davb]
- :)
- 21:07:24 [ola]
- Does this mean that ETP is also searchable?
- 21:07:27 [k2pts]
- create a note with body "play football" and then search for "playing"
- 21:07:37 [k2pts]
- ola: give me a sec
- 21:07:53 [k2pts]
- you can also try rankings
- 21:08:26 [k2pts]
- create two notes one that includes the word "hello world" in the title and one that has it in the body
- 21:08:37 [k2pts]
- search for world. the former will appear first
- 21:09:41 [k2pts]
- also to test proximity (how close the search keywords are),
- 21:10:59 [k2pts]
- create a note with body "full text search" and body "full davb text search". then search for the words "full" and "search". the former will appear first
- 21:11:03 [ola]
- k2pts: hey, this package beats PLS and interMedia!:-)
- 21:11:09 [k2pts]
- :)
- 21:11:11 [k2pts]
- thanx
- 21:11:28 [k2pts]
- this is mostly due to the efforts of Oleg and Teodor
- 21:12:06 [ola]
- nah, don't be so modest.;-)
- 21:12:36 [k2pts]
- forgot Dan. Dan did an excellent job porting openfts to tcl
- 21:12:51 [donb]
- donb has joined #openacs
- 21:12:57 [k2pts]
- hi Don
- 21:13:07 [donb]
- Hey there ...
- 21:13:08 [ola]
- hi donb
- 21:13:21 [k2pts]
- almost done with acs-workflow
- 21:13:52 [donb]
- talli ... I've been poking around bboard ... I think it can be sped up a lot, especially for Postgres (Oracle may optimize some of the uses of views I'm seeing, but may not)
- 21:14:06 [donb]
- Neophytos - I would, sure.
- 21:14:15 [k2pts]
- ok give me a sec
- 21:14:21 [talli]
- donb: yeah, i saw your post
- 21:14:38 [donb]
- I just made another, you saw that one already?
- 21:15:05 [talli]
- i was going to write something yesterday about how In Don I Trust and i hpoe that i am always on your side
- 21:15:31 [talli]
- i liked how you offered one sql query in one post and seconds later offered another
- 21:15:37 [donb]
- Not necessarily true for Oracle, though I did figure out why those "foo in (select bar from ...)" queries can run fast.
- 21:15:40 [talli]
- so yes, i saw all that stuff, adn thanks
- 21:15:58 [talli]
- is it bad hacking on aD's part or something that is just peculiar to PG?
- 21:16:51 [ola]
- donb: do you know you can't browse other packages than acs-* in the code repository?
- 21:17:55 [docwolf]
- docwolf has joined #openacs
- 21:18:05 [docwolf]
- hi everybody
- 21:18:07 [k2pts]
- hi docwolf
- 21:18:11 [davb]
- hi docwolf
- 21:18:28 [docwolf]
- hey, is don around?
- 21:18:38 [ola]
- donb: also, how come some packages cannot be "checked-out" but must be "updated"?
- 21:18:48 [talli]
- yo doc
- 21:19:22 [donb]
- Well ... the views I'm concerned with in bboard are used in queries that can only run fast if Oracle's smart about views. Several of the queries that use the views in essence throw away parts of the views that are expensive to compute. If Oracle figures out that it can simply not do the computation the queries are OK.
- 21:19:25 [ola]
- donb: mp3-jukebox, for instance...
- 21:19:30 [donb]
- But I bet it's not, for instance...
- 21:19:37 [donb]
- OK ... one thing at a time...
- 21:20:25 [donb]
- Neophytos: That looks nice. I haven't gotten graphiz to install on my workstation (missing stuff) so haven't seen the existing UI so don't know how much better this is. DanW did say he liked the existing graphical output though ...
- 21:20:49 [k2pts]
- i think it's been improved
- 21:20:51 [k2pts]
- a lot
- 21:21:09 [k2pts]
- also noticed the roles instead of static assignments?
- 21:21:22 [donb]
- Ola: It's because I haven't declared them modules in CVS and you can only check out modules. I should do that. I'd forgotten about this over the last few months...
- 21:23:15 [ola]
- donb: aha, I see.
- 21:23:21 [donb]
- ND: It is nice ... the HTML display's not bad, either. Will the HTML display work now if you don't have graphiz installed? I thought it was kinda dumb to have that dependency ...
- 21:23:22 [chump]
- Label ND not found.
- 21:23:44 [k2pts]
- haven't check. I
- 21:23:46 [donb]
- What's this "chump" thing ...
- 21:23:58 [k2pts]
- it's the logger
- 21:24:04 [donb]
- Ahhhh....
- 21:24:10 [davb]
- Chump records every line that starts with http://
- 21:24:15 [davb]
- loggy records everything.
- 21:25:22 [docwolf]
- hey don..
- 21:25:28 [donb]
- Yeah?
- 21:25:29 [docwolf]
- funny coincidence..
- 21:25:38 [docwolf]
- i live in the land of anthrax, boca raton, fla.
- 21:25:56 [docwolf]
- we have a university here whose mascot is The Owl
- 21:26:00 [docwolf]
- they are using your photographs.
- 21:26:15 [docwolf]
- i was amused to see it when i was surfing their site.
- 21:26:26 [docwolf]
- donb is everywhere...
- 21:26:55 [docwolf]
- http://www.fau.edu/admin/admin.htm
- 21:26:55 [chump]
- C: http://www.fau.edu/admin/admin.htm from docwolf
- 21:26:58 [donb]
- Yeah ... they asked me if they could use them oh about three years ago. They have burrowing owls on campus so wanted some burrowing owl shots. The people working on the website were really nice folks .
- 21:27:34 [docwolf]
- it's a fairly laid-back, anonymous institution.
- 21:28:02 [donb]
- The same photo is on Warner Brothers official Harry Potter website. They *didn't* ask and they *don't* have my permission to use them and I'm rather pissed.
- 21:28:07 [docwolf]
- !!!
- 21:28:11 [docwolf]
- i smell lawsuit :-)
- 21:28:13 [davb]
- Wow.
- 21:28:22 [ola]
- http://www.infogettable.net/bg/
- 21:28:22 [chump]
- D: http://www.infogettable.net/bg/ from ola
- 21:28:27 [ola]
- D:|Free OpenACS 3.2.5 based Backgammon for the people
- 21:28:27 [chump]
- titled item D
- 21:28:33 [ola]
- :-)
- 21:29:18 [donb]
- Yes indeed. Actually ... I look at it as a sales opportunity. They already made a reasonable offer to one of the other photographers, but he does want to sue (vengence!). Of course, it's not WB's fault as it is the design firm that's 'fessed up to the deed.
- 21:30:00 [donb]
- But it is funny given the fact that WB's part of RIAA and we all know how they feel about DeCSS, napster, etc etc.
- 21:30:09 [docwolf]
- haha
- 21:30:14 [docwolf]
- give 'em hell!
- 21:30:16 [talli]
- donb: given that WB sent very intimidating letters to every child who had a harry potter fan site, i think you should threaten them with everything you have,
- 21:30:25 [talli]
- which is, uh, considerable?
- 21:30:32 [donb]
- Did WB do that? I didn't know that.
- 21:30:37 [k2pts]
- ola: nice site
- 21:31:04 [donb]
- I've thought about submitting it to slashdot but I'm not sure they'd pick up on the DMCA irony.
- 21:31:06 [ola]
- k2pts: thanks.
- 21:31:16 [docwolf]
- slashdot may be your most cost-effective avenue
- 21:32:18 [talli]
- that would be cool
- 21:32:18 [donb]
- Ola - that's a nice looking site, did you do the board graphics?
- 21:33:48 [ola]
- donb: yes. it took some time but it loads faster than GIF segments.
- 21:34:00 [k2pts]
- ola: you should try chess next. you might also come up with a general game package
- 21:34:07 [donb]
- Suing WB's not attractive because the copyright's not registered. I could get actual damages (i.e. market value for the sale) but not lawyer's fees or punative (3x) damages.
- 21:34:37 [donb]
- A general game package with presentation handled by the template engine. Now, that would be ambitious!
- 21:34:48 [k2pts]
- ola: monitoring ratings, game status, etc
- 21:35:50 [donb]
- use service contract to connect to game-specific layout engines, rule checkers, etc...
- 21:35:58 [k2pts]
- exactly
- 21:35:59 [ola]
- heh
- 21:36:08 [donb]
- That would keep you busy for awhile ...
- 21:36:36 [ola]
- k2pts: if you register you'll see some of that;-)
- 21:36:47 [k2pts]
- ok, heading there now
- 21:38:35 [ola]
- k2pts: pick me in the player pool!
- 21:38:36 [talli]
- donb: one of the aD prize winners, heather something, was the girl that brought WB to their knees for taking down the harry potter fan sites
- 21:38:54 [talli]
- she actually won her prize for her harrry potter site, i think
- 21:39:13 [donb]
- Well ... I'm going to head off in a minute to finish up porting the glossary package. It's lame as it stands (as Walter says in the alpha release notes he wrote for aD). I'm starting to understand aD alpha releases - "25% complete"
- 21:39:39 [donb]
- Ahhh ... I should e-mail her, she'd be humored by this.
- 21:39:51 [donb]
- Sure ...
- 21:39:58 [talli]
- i'm sure she would be
- 21:40:21 [talli]
- i laughed when i heard that, because she's also the girl who is taking on aD to get that server back
- 21:40:25 [talli]
- poor, poor aD
- 21:40:29 [talli]
- don't fuck with harry potter
- 21:40:31 [docwolf]
- haha
- 21:41:52 [donb]
- ?
- 21:42:55 [donb]
- neophytos: I don't know how to post back in private, though this might've done it?
- 21:43:09 [donb]
- k2pts: I mean this ...
- 21:43:26 [k2pts]
- pick my nick and then choose dialog
- 21:43:36 [k2pts]
- which irc client are you using
- 21:43:39 [donb]
- epic
- 21:44:11 [k2pts]
- nevermind, i'll email you
- 21:45:02 [donb]
- OK ... that's fine. I might not get back to you until Monday though as we're going to spend tomorrow at a friends ...
- 21:45:34 [vinod]
- donb: to send a private msg it's: /msg k2pts this msg is private
- 21:47:52 [k2pts]
- talli: I accepted but it failed
- 21:48:04 [talli]
- yeah, don't worry about it
- 21:48:08 [talli]
- i was playing with my client
- 21:48:15 [k2pts]
- np
- 21:48:22 [talli]
- at your expense ;)
- 21:57:14 [donb]
- cd /msg k2pts cms, cms-news-demo, glossary, ticket tracker, wf-ticket-tracker (which can be ignored)
- 21:57:57 [talli]
- whoa
- 21:57:59 [talli]
- http://www.aolserver.com/
- 21:57:59 [chump]
- E: http://www.aolserver.com/ from talli
- 21:58:08 [talli]
- E: AOLserver.com redesign
- 21:58:09 [chump]
- commented item E
- 21:58:27 [talli]
- E: actually looks like you can find documentation and stuff
- 21:58:27 [chump]
- commented item E
- 21:58:37 [donb]
- That's old news, dude ...
- 21:59:24 [talli]
- how old?
- 21:59:33 [talli]
- i go there once a week or so
- 21:59:40 [davb]
- If the chump was searchable I would show you :)
- 21:59:41 [talli]
- or maybe not
- 21:59:46 [talli]
- ah, ok
- 22:00:13 [k2pts]
- davb: stop kidding around and compile pgsql :)
- 22:00:21 [talli]
- E: talli apologizes, however, for adding a link to chump which already exists. as donb said, "that's old news dude..."
- 22:00:22 [chump]
- commented item E
- 22:00:55 [davb]
- Its done. I am reinstalling OpenACS.
- 22:00:58 [donb]
- Oh right Dave needs intarray ...
- 22:01:17 [davb]
- Among other things. I think I screwed up EVERY step of the install :)
- 22:01:48 [k2pts]
- lol
- 22:01:55 [k2pts]
- :)
- 22:02:12 [davb]
- But I learned alot.
- 22:02:55 [donb]
- Don't feel bad I had to get Janine Sisk to help me figure out why my Intermedia install didn't make OpenACS happy ...
- 22:03:01 [k2pts]
- pcychephylax should teach me how to give cookies (the asterisk post)
- 22:03:03 [ola]
- E: yeah! fish n' chips paper by now!
- 22:03:03 [chump]
- commented item E
- 22:03:28 [donb]
- She had to log into my laptop from NH...
- 22:04:45 [donb]
- Well folks I need to go off, get some coffee, and finish up the glossary package.
- 22:04:46 [davb]
- We definitely need to go through the default OpenACS admin pages and read all the instructions to make sure they are correct and make sense.
- 22:05:20 [donb]
- Yeah ... I'm still waiting for Roberto to get our XML docs compiling before worrying about changing them.
- 22:05:41 [donb]
- OK bye folks!
- 22:05:43 [donb]
- donb has quit
- 22:10:37 [k2pts]
- I am leaving too guys.
- 22:10:47 [k2pts]
- davb: we can continue tomorrow
- 22:10:51 [davb]
- thanks. goodnight
- 22:10:56 [k2pts]
- bye
- 22:10:58 [k2pts]
- k2pts has left #openacs
- 22:11:41 [talli]
- talli has quit
- 22:24:25 [ola]
- ola has quit
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- vinod has quit
- 23:10:35 [davb]
- davb has quit
- 23:19:00 [Spork]
- * Spork is about to watch office space
- 23:19:04 [rbm]
- :)
- 23:19:22 [Spork]
- hahaha
- 23:19:25 [Spork]
- I love the intro
- 23:19:30 [Spork]
- Almost like my daily commute
- 23:20:33 [rbm]
- Watch the beloved office printer
- 23:33:40 [Spork]
- All you gotta do is just replace Inatech with Cablevision and you have my life