IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:26:05 [davb]
davb has joined #OpenACS
00:37:06 [davb]
* davb triumphantly returns!
00:37:36 [davb]
My drive was literally fscked. It had quite a few errors, hopefully its all fixed now, i don't know if I lost any data yet.
00:43:49 [davb]
* davb reloads the datamodel
00:47:21 [rbm]
davb: Install a Journaled File System
01:02:11 [davb]
good idea.
01:02:21 [davb]
I have to get my kernel up to 2.4 first I think.
01:02:47 [davb]
I don't know why that happened, its the first time. I told it to shutdown the official way.
01:10:06 [davb]
Mozilla 0.9.5 is great!
01:10:22 [docwolf]
davb: I agree!
01:10:28 [davb]
I order everyone still using netscape 4 to upgrade immediately!
01:10:29 [davb]
:)
01:10:36 [docwolf]
I'm using Moz exclusively now
01:10:39 [docwolf]
(on win2k)
01:10:51 [davb]
Also my machine screams not that I have enough RAM
01:11:07 [docwolf]
it's surprising to me how quickly it got good
01:11:18 [docwolf]
from unstable heaps
01:11:27 [docwolf]
(0.9.1, etc..)
01:11:38 [docwolf]
to something that can actually be used every day.
01:11:47 [davb]
yes. I love CTRL-T. It has tabs, but handles pop-up windows without screwing up all of them.
01:11:59 [docwolf]
ctrl-T rocks
01:12:00 [davb]
It's too bad for Opera.
01:13:34 [docwolf]
yeah. opera is suddenly going to become useless
01:21:39 [davb]
davb has quit
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docwolf has quit
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rbm has quit
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01:21:50 [davb]
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02:02:51 [Spork]
bah
02:04:48 [davb]
argh!
02:04:51 [davb]
Hi spork.
02:05:11 [davb]
I am back to where I started this morning.
02:07:09 [davb]
damn. I have 320MB RAM and its still all used up.
02:07:26 [davb]
holy crap. FreeAMP is 10M
02:08:01 [davb]
not only that there are three of them taking up 10M floating around in there.
02:13:17 [Spork]
hi dave
02:13:29 [Spork]
what OS are you using?
02:13:47 [davb]
Linux 2.2.19
02:13:57 [davb]
Mozilla is 32M
02:14:12 [Spork]
And you're running out of Memory on THAT?
02:14:12 [davb]
I don't see postgresql or AOLserver in top
02:14:23 [davb]
Well I got alot of crap going.
02:14:29 [Spork]
Well that's your fault ;)
02:14:34 [davb]
yeah.
02:14:38 [Spork]
I have a P200 with 80 megs of ram and I have not had any problems
02:14:49 [Spork]
It's my mail. ftp, http server
02:14:58 [davb]
No problems. It's way more responsive than before.
02:15:27 [davb]
I'll have to learn what's hogging all the RAM though.
02:15:27 [Spork]
Granted it's not a very very speedy and won't hold up if I get linked from Fox or /. but hey...it does some serving
02:15:58 [Spork]
run top
02:17:15 [davb]
yeah. I got a console mp3 player, down frm 10M to !
02:17:17 [davb]
1 that is
02:17:48 [davb]
18M for AOLserver 7 for postgres
02:18:02 [davb]
I wonder where its all going.
02:18:35 [Spork]
Ahh the mysteries of searchign for lost memory
02:18:45 [Spork]
Are you sure your kernel knows it's got that much ram?
02:18:53 [Spork]
Sometimes you have to recompile
02:18:56 [davb]
Top says its using 310 M
02:19:03 [Spork]
Hang on
02:19:22 [Spork]
paste your top output
02:19:33 [davb]
k
02:19:37 [Spork]
It might be that your kernel claims it's using that much but it just "claims" it
02:19:54 [davb]
18:29:31 up 3:09, 2 users, load average: 0.18, 0.36, 0.40
02:19:55 [davb]
76 processes: 73 sleeping, 3 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
02:19:55 [davb]
CPU states: 22.7% user, 7.2% system, 0.0% nice, 70.1% idle
02:19:55 [davb]
Mem: 322708K total, 316108K used, 6600K free, 52804K buffers
02:19:55 [davb]
Swap: 1052216K total, 0K used, 1052216K free, 143660K cached
02:19:55 [davb]
PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT PU %MEM TIME COMMAND
02:19:58 [davb]
555 root 17 -10 57736 23M 4480 R < 23.6 7.5 21:27 XFree86
02:20:00 [davb]
599 nsadmin 4 0 5632 5632 1984 R 3.2 1.7 1:15 enlightenment
02:20:02 [davb]
1676 nsadmin 6 0 1008 1008 784 R 2.3 0.3 0:00 top
02:20:04 [davb]
655 nsadmin 1 0 4772 4772 3540 S 0.3 1.4 0:09 gnome-terminal
02:20:06 [davb]
612 nsadmin 0 0 5844 5844 4128 S 0.1 1.8 0:04 panel
02:20:08 [davb]
657 nsadmin 0 0 5780 5776 4200 S 0.1 1.7 0:04 xchat
02:20:10 [davb]
846 nsadmin 0 0 18448 18M 2328 S 0.1 5.7 0:03 nsd
02:20:12 [Spork]
i just wanted the top
02:20:12 [davb]
1 root 0 0 520 520 452 S 0.0 0.1 0:05 init
02:20:13 [davb]
2 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 kflushd
02:20:15 [davb]
3 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:03 kupdate
02:20:18 [davb]
4 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:03 kswapd
02:20:20 [davb]
5 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 keventd
02:20:22 [davb]
161 root 0 0 424 424 368 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 dhcpcd
02:20:24 [davb]
166 daemon 0 0 448 448 368 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 portmap
02:20:26 [davb]
224 root 0 0 636 636 520 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 syslogd
02:20:28 [davb]
227 root 0 0 872 872 452 S 0.0 0.2 0:00 klogd
02:20:30 [davb]
239 root 0 0 508 508 444 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 dhcpcd
02:20:32 [davb]
hah! take that! :)
02:20:34 [davb]
ok. hang on
02:20:37 [davb]
18:30:07 up 3:10, 2 users, load average: 0.33, 0.37, 0.40
02:20:39 [davb]
77 processes: 75 sleeping, 2 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
02:20:42 [davb]
CPU states: 41.6% user, 4.4% system, 0.0% nice, 54.0% idle
02:20:44 [davb]
Mem: 322580K total, 316212K used, 6368K free, 52804K buffers
02:20:46 [davb]
Swap: 1052216K total, 0K used, 1052216K free, 143672K cached
02:20:48 [davb]
I think my swap is busted. It always says 0k used.
02:20:53 [Spork]
no
02:20:54 [Spork]
that's right
02:20:59 [davb]
oh cool.
02:21:05 [Spork]
think about it...if it's got lots of memory why would it want to swap?
02:21:19 [Spork]
You swap if you can't hold stuff in RAM
02:21:26 [davb]
Right.
02:21:40 [Spork]
Also, if I recall correctly (shoots in the dark)
02:21:50 [Spork]
Linux is funky the way it tells info
02:21:55 [Spork]
Let me ask my genius friend to verify
02:21:55 [davb]
could be.
02:22:30 [davb]
cool.
02:24:33 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: Welcome to: Analyzing dab's memory usage
02:24:53 [Spork]
Spork has changed the topic to: Analyzing davb's memory usage
02:25:10 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: I am not a sysadmin, but I play one on IRC
02:25:18 [Spork]
Linux doesn't handle swap very well right now, and it won't swap active pages out of memory until it has no choice but to do so. Currently, with the 2.4 kernel series, there are some VERY serious memory management problems. Your friend should try using the 2.2 kernel series if his hardware is supported by it.
02:25:29 [Spork]
From my genius friend
02:25:48 [Spork]
So, go with freebsd! :)
02:25:53 [davb]
Cool. I am using 2.2
02:26:23 [Spork]
Right now, there are some people that can't use Linux 2.4 for more than a couple days before it starts starving itself of swap space, eventually leading to either 1) kernel panic 2) swapping activity that may last for hours
02:26:54 [davb]
wow, incredible.
02:27:02 [Spork]
I've seen it happen
02:27:07 [Spork]
I had a similar problem like that
02:27:14 [Spork]
But it was caused by my stupidity
02:27:17 [davb]
cool. I will stick with 2.2 for a little while then.
02:27:26 [Spork]
k
02:27:33 [Spork]
the problems are probably being fixed, but right now the only good solution I've read about involves merging a whole bunch of different patches into the stock kernel, or use Alan Cox's kernel
02:28:09 [Spork]
I kinda liked leaving X running on my slow box and I think one of the little programs that I left running had a leak
02:28:20 [Spork]
so every 2 or 3 days my box would starve itself and just go nuts
02:28:27 [Spork]
I thought I was being hacked :)
02:29:38 [davb]
heh
02:30:59 [davb]
I can crash my box wel enough myself thank you very much.
02:32:20 [Spork]
heh
02:34:33 [Spork]
I have difficulty now
02:34:52 [Spork]
:)
02:35:27 [Spork]
that's a long ass time
02:38:21 [davb]
not bad.
02:38:28 [Spork]
going for 100 :)
02:38:35 [Spork]
then 150...Gonna try a year
02:38:41 [davb]
I wonder if olympus has a Linux driver for my camera/flashpath adapter.
02:39:42 [davb]
nope.
02:42:14 [davb]
I found a press release but no software from smartdisk.
02:42:44 [Spork]
What camera?
02:43:00 [Spork]
Is it usb?
02:43:31 [davb]
Olympus D400. It has smartmedia. I have a $100 smartmedia/floppy adapter. Supposedly there is linux software for it.
02:43:38 [Spork]
400?
02:43:46 [Spork]
you sure not 460 or 490?
02:44:24 [davb]
nope its old
02:44:39 [davb]
see: Driver Availability
02:44:39 [davb]
FlashPath for SmartMedia Linux drivers are now available from SmartDisk's Web site at www.smartdisk.com.
02:44:43 [davb]
liars
02:46:09 [davb]
there is nothing about linux on their web site anywhere!
02:46:21 [Spork]
hmm
02:47:17 [davb]
they don't even have the linux press release on their web site.
02:47:35 [davb]
its from June 2000.
02:48:02 [Spork]
hmm
02:48:11 [Spork]
Maybe they didn't get it to work the way they wanted it
02:48:36 [davb]
yeah, maybe, but its like it never existed.
02:49:05 [davb]
I really think I am going to buy a Mac.
02:49:22 [davb]
Linux is cool for web and other development, but sucks for multimedia.
02:51:03 [Spork]
yeah
02:51:24 [Spork]
But Macs you will be paying an arm and a leg for Mac software versions
02:51:57 [davb]
Not any more than the PC versions of the same stuff. I am talking photoshop, etc...
02:52:04 [Spork]
yeah
02:52:06 [Spork]
me too
02:52:17 [Spork]
I think it's like 50-100$ more for same products mac side
02:52:33 [davb]
I think you can get them for a reasonable price.
02:52:38 [davb]
Anyway I don't care.
02:52:47 [Spork]
:/
02:52:51 [davb]
The new Apples are really cool.
02:52:57 [Spork]
yeah faster too
02:52:59 [davb]
Also the run BSD underneath.
02:53:06 [Spork]
yep
02:53:08 [davb]
The new G5 is really fast.
02:56:30 [davb]
I sent them an email with a link to the press release on their own web site.
02:56:56 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS - Free Web Toolkit - http://openacs.org
03:01:32 [Spork]
Well, hopefully they'll reply :)
03:07:03 [davb]
wow! its 7:16
03:07:13 [davb]
apparently my clock got messed up.
03:07:26 [rbm]
Anyone interested in free O'Reilly books?
03:07:39 [davb]
Ummmm sure.
03:08:14 [rbm]
I got that in a mailing list
03:08:25 [davb]
woah.
03:10:20 [davb]
oh yeah. I have to finish those CDs for you guys!
03:10:35 [davb]
rbm: got time for a postgresql/openacs question?
03:10:50 [rbm]
davb: sure
03:11:24 [rbm]
oops
03:11:25 [rbm]
* rbm kicks davb to finish those CDs :)
03:11:27 [davb]
OK. in static_page__delete_stale_items it deletes all the static_pages then goes to delete the static_folders. But it says the folders are not empty.
03:11:58 [davb]
Is it possible the delete_folder function call is seeing the static_pages before the deletes are committed?
03:12:24 [rbm]
Are they called within the same function?
03:13:06 [davb]
yes. static_page__delete_stale_items calls page_delete then folder_delete
03:13:24 [rbm]
are you sure page_delet is doing its job right?
03:13:36 [davb]
yes.
03:14:03 [davb]
It seems to.
03:14:13 [rbm]
A function, when called, is on its own transaction, so if one folder_delete would see the rows deleted.
03:14:24 [davb]
I can call static_page__delete from psql and that works fine.
03:14:30 [davb]
Even if its inside another function?
03:14:32 [rbm]
davb: hmmm.
03:14:33 [rbm]
Yes
03:14:45 [davb]
ok. I'll think about it tomorrow.
03:14:57 [davb]
After fixing my drive I made it all the way back to where I was started this morning.
03:15:16 [davb]
Thanks!
03:15:59 [rbm]
For what?
03:16:07 [davb]
listening.
03:16:35 [rbm]
Oh, ok :)
03:17:18 [rbm]
In that case, you're welcome
03:18:36 [davb]
looks like I volunteered for another OpenACS project. A general-keywords interface to provide keyword services to other packages.
03:19:02 [davb]
ARGH!
03:19:03 [Spork]
I swear
03:19:05 [Spork]
I hate computers
03:19:11 [Spork]
I think I'll be a farmer
03:19:17 [davb]
heh. me too. I'm getting a slide rule
03:19:37 [davb]
Apparently the END of one of the lectures is broken.
03:20:20 [davb]
at least mkisofs doesn't like it. I am trying a traditional copy of the actual files.
03:32:20 [davb]
Wow. Cable modem makes an excellent foot-warmer
03:34:12 [rbm]
davb: have a pentium chip around? They are pretty good warmers too
03:39:21 [davb]
yeah. I have a couple of those. Actually a cr recorder is an excellent heat source also.
03:39:37 [hazmat]
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03:40:19 [Spork]
monitors work best
03:40:28 [rbm]
Here is yet another testimony that MySQL developers (the team that codes the server itself) are all on crack and have no idea of what they are doing (and coding): http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm
03:40:32 [rbm]
They simply lack an understanding of the concepts of the relational model.
03:40:38 [rbm]
"More evidence (as if it were necessary) comes from an exchange with the developer of Innobase, a product which he refers to as InnoDB and describes as a "back-end which provides transactions to MySQL". The exchange demonstrates that not only the relational model, but also the most basic database concepts are poorly, if at all, understood (the description of the product itself reveals a misconception, can you figure it out?)."
03:40:59 [rbm]
http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm
03:41:00 [chump]
E: http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm from rbm
03:41:26 [rbm]
E:| See why MySQL and InnoDB are worthless
03:41:26 [chump]
titled item E
03:41:47 [davb]
E: very enlightening site about relational databases in general
03:41:48 [chump]
commented item E
03:42:02 [davb]
Have you read any of their books?
03:42:33 [rbm]
davb: Not yet.
03:43:37 [davb]
Me neither. Just wondering.
03:45:57 [davb]
This kills me: " This is semantics, but I think Codd and Date in the 70s meant by a relational database something which has a relational query language. Thus any database which has a query language somewhat similar to the relational algebra or SQL can be called a relational database."
03:46:15 [davb]
yeah, they did all that math for fun!
03:46:52 [rbm]
davb: I know!! The MySQL team never ceases to amaze me with their complete lack of understanding of the relational model.
03:47:11 [davb]
Its just a suggestion.
03:49:46 [davb]
I have to stop reading. its too scary.
03:51:17 [rbm]
* rbm falls on the floor
03:56:18 [davb]
argh. I wonder if I can find those lectures somewhere.
03:56:46 [davb]
There are 10 of them, two parts each. The second part of the 5th lecture is broken. I can't copy the file. Weird I can watch the beginning.
03:57:03 [davb]
Maybe a MS Windows CD copying program will work.
03:58:06 [davb]
http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci769023,00.html?dgExplicitTieredReg=&dgImplicitTieredReg=%7B%3EttTaxonomy%3EsearchDatabase%3EEmail%3ETips+and+Columns%7D&dgOptInTieredReg=true&dgTieredRegLocation=Tips&FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F284872
03:58:06 [chump]
F: http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci769023,00.html?dgExplicitTieredReg=&dgImplicitTieredReg=%7B%3EttTaxonomy%3EsearchDatabase%3EEmail%3ETips+and+Columns%7D&dgOptInTieredReg=true&dgTieredRegLocation=Tips&FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F284872 from davb
03:58:22 [davb]
F:| OO for App Development not database management
03:58:22 [chump]
titled item F
03:58:42 [davb]
F: some why OO is bad with relational DB, for Talli
03:58:42 [chump]
commented item F
03:59:10 [davb]
F: "As to encapsulation, it raises issues much more serious than performance (the logical/physical confusion again). A major one is that OO encapsulation essentially means that there is no such thing as ad-hoc querying. Any operation (method) that the object programmer has not built into the object is simply not available to the user."
03:59:10 [chump]
commented item F
03:59:42 [davb]
later
03:59:44 [davb]
davb has quit
03:59:50 [hazmat]
davb: how do we recall from chump the various items?
04:00:09 [hazmat]
how do we recall from chump the various items?
04:00:33 [hazmat]
?? chump
04:00:40 [hazmat]
A:
04:00:41 [chump]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002wj&topic_id=14&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Testing
04:00:42 [chump]
Thread on host_node_map
04:00:47 [hazmat]
B:
04:00:47 [chump]
http://digitalmass.boston.com/news/globe_tech/at_large/2001/1022.html
04:00:50 [hazmat]
C:
04:00:51 [chump]
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/
04:00:51 [chump]
The Trouble with EM 'n EN
04:00:52 [chump]
(davb) from A List Apart
04:00:53 [chump]
(davb) proper typesetting marks in HTML 4.0?
04:00:53 [hazmat]
D:
04:00:55 [chump]
http://www.pinds.com/acs-tips/tcl-data-structures
04:00:56 [chump]
Datastructures in Tcl
04:00:57 [chump]
(talli) lars is smart
04:00:57 [hazmat]
E:
04:00:59 [chump]
http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm
04:01:00 [hazmat]
F:
04:01:01 [chump]
See why MySQL and InnoDB are worthless
04:01:03 [chump]
(davb) very enlightening site about relational databases in general
04:01:04 [hazmat]
G:
04:01:07 [chump]
http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci769023,00.html?dgExplicitTieredReg=&dgImplicitTieredReg=%7B%3EttTaxonomy%3EsearchDatabase%3EEmail%3ETips+and+Columns%7D&dgOptInTieredReg=true&dgTieredRegLocation=Tips&FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F284872
04:01:11 [chump]
OO for App Development not database management
04:01:13 [chump]
(davb) some why OO is bad with relational DB, for Talli
04:01:14 [hazmat]
H:
04:01:15 [chump]
(davb) "As to encapsulation, it raises issues much more serious than performance (the logical/physical confusion again). A major one is that OO encapsulation essentially means that there is no such thing as ad-hoc querying. Any operation (method) that the object programmer has not built into the object is simply not available to the user."
04:01:20 [hazmat]
I:
04:01:21 [chump]
Label G not found.
04:01:23 [chump]
Label H not found.
04:01:25 [chump]
Label I not found.
04:01:35 [john]
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04:06:06 [Spork]
I give up
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05:01:31 [hazmat]
:C
05:01:37 [hazmat]
C:
05:01:38 [chump]
http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/
05:01:39 [chump]
The Trouble with EM 'n EN
05:01:40 [chump]
(davb) from A List Apart
05:01:41 [chump]
(davb) proper typesetting marks in HTML 4.0?
05:01:49 [hazmat]
D:
05:01:49 [chump]
http://www.pinds.com/acs-tips/tcl-data-structures
05:01:50 [chump]
Datastructures in Tcl
05:01:51 [chump]
(talli) lars is smart
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06:48:34 [JonHogan]
i read on the forum that there is a bug in ns_mkdir but can not find any for than a passing comment, for ACS3.2.5 anyone have more detail?
06:55:37 [hazmat]
no idea
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til has quit
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til has joined #openacs
12:56:35 [davb]
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13:00:33 [ola]
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13:00:43 [ola]
hi all!
13:01:38 [davb]
Howdy ola!
13:02:11 [ola]
downloading RedHat 7.2 at the moment..
13:02:18 [davb]
Good luck!
13:04:06 [ola]
thanks, it's actually going pretty fast. two ISOs at the same time, both downloading at a speed of 140K/sec.
13:06:25 [ola]
ext3, reiserfs or XFS? - that's the question.
13:07:15 [ola]
maybe I'll try ext3 since it's the default with RH 7.2.
13:24:58 [davb]
not bad. try ext3. Its cool because you can mount it as ext2 in an emergency.
13:33:31 [markd2]
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13:33:59 [markd2]
'moaning
13:35:25 [davb]
Hey markd2!
13:36:35 [markd2]
back from my folks's now
13:36:44 [markd2]
for a day. then we head to Virginia to play a concert :-)
13:37:11 [davb]
Wow, you are really busy!
13:37:21 [markd2]
end of october, december, and may are busy times
13:37:28 [davb]
How was the return trip?
13:37:48 [markd2]
of the 4 opportunities for being 'randomly selected' at the airports, I got hit 3 times
13:37:50 [markd2]
>:-(
13:38:11 [davb]
Again?
13:38:16 [markd2]
yep
13:38:19 [markd2]
that was the trip back
13:38:36 [markd2]
2 flights (4 planes), I'm running a 75% 'random' rate
13:38:39 [davb]
Wow. They must be using a MS random number generator instead of Linux.
13:38:45 [markd2]
heh
13:39:00 [davb]
The same one that generates the TCP offset :)
13:39:08 [markd2]
heh^2
13:40:53 [davb]
We got an apple store at the local mall. Its very cool. I definitely want one of those laptops.
13:45:36 [markd2]
sweet!
13:47:02 [davb]
The new mouse is cool, but Apple really should at least OFFER a mulibutton mouse.
13:48:18 [markd2]
an Exciting Third Party Opportunity
13:51:47 [rbm]
morning all
13:52:05 [davb]
Hi rbm.
13:53:51 [rbm]
markd2: are you going to stop in Utah for our Free Software Forum (with Bruce Perens)? :)
13:54:04 [markd2]
heh. too far to drive
13:54:14 [markd2]
take good notes for me
13:54:20 [rbm]
I've too much bad stuff about RH 7.2 to even touch it
13:55:16 [davb]
Hey you can't get a superdrive with the powerbook.
13:59:29 [markd2]
even with the speedbumped models?
14:00:09 [davb]
It wasn't an option. I think it wont fit in the case.
14:01:47 [davb]
unless they haven't updated the online store.
14:04:24 [markd2]
I hang on to machines for at least 2 years before lusting after the next model
14:04:33 [markd2]
so I'm not due back at the apple store until at least april 2003
14:05:14 [davb]
Good idea. My machine is like 3 years old and my laptop is over 6 years old.
14:05:45 [davb]
Anyway if I get a Mac it's just a Microsoft freedom tax.
14:10:33 [rbm]
The Apple laptops are cool.
14:10:40 [rbm]
I wish they'd sell them with Linux installed :)
14:10:51 [rbm]
At least it's OS X
14:10:56 [davb]
Well its close anyway. And it has a better UI.
14:11:06 [markd2]
and you can always wipe the disk and put yellow dog or linux ppc on
14:11:16 [markd2]
I think THE PERFORMER does that
14:11:17 [rbm]
I just need to get my work done. I don't need no super-pretty UI.
14:11:50 [markd2]
yeah. gimme emacs or gimme death!
14:11:56 [davb]
Of course.
14:12:26 [davb]
Emacs question because I am too lazy to look it up. How do I open more than one shell?
14:12:35 [davb]
M-x shell sends me to the already open one.
14:16:40 [rbm]
* rbm heads to campus
14:17:36 [markd2]
rename the shell buffer
14:17:41 [markd2]
M-x rename-buffer
14:17:47 [markd2]
I keep three shells around
14:18:02 [markd2]
cleverly named '123', 'qwe', and 'asd'
14:18:10 [markd2]
makes it very fast to switch shells
14:18:15 [davb]
aha!
14:20:04 [davb]
no wonder you are so efficient!
14:20:16 [markd2]
I even have a system to what goes in which shell
14:20:34 [markd2]
'123' has the tail -f of the error log, 'qwe' is my roving around source code shell, and 'asd' is my database / sqlplus session
14:21:29 [davb]
aha.
14:21:41 [davb]
I am always typing *SQL* etc... duh.
14:48:50 [davb]
this is cool:
14:48:55 [davb]
http://www.gnod.net
14:48:55 [chump]
A: http://www.gnod.net from davb
14:49:03 [davb]
A:|Global Network of Dreams
14:49:03 [chump]
titled item A
14:49:06 [til]
til has quit
14:49:16 [davb]
A: U little web site that trys to guess what you might like
14:49:17 [chump]
commented item A
15:09:18 [til]
til has joined #openacs
15:15:27 [rbm]
* rbm sighs
15:19:55 [davb]
This is driving me crazy. I wonder WHY it thinks the folder is not empty.
15:20:12 [markd2]
in a unix shell?
15:20:18 [davb]
no OpenACS
15:20:22 [davb]
a content_folder
15:20:32 [markd2]
that I couldn't tell ya
15:23:18 [davb]
It is not deleting the content items like it says it is. hmmmm.
15:27:09 [Spork]
I hate computers
15:27:12 [Spork]
I'm going to be a farmer
15:27:12 [markd2]
heh
15:27:24 [Spork]
Hey Mark, Dave, Roberto
15:28:46 [Spork]
any of you burn cds in winderz?
15:29:11 [markd2]
* markd2 just burns winderz CDs in the bonfire
15:29:29 [Spork]
heh
15:29:39 [Spork]
I blew up my ACS project yesterday
15:30:10 [davb]
yes. I use Nero.
15:30:50 [ola]
me too.
15:31:15 [Spork]
heh ok, did you have any problems with it in Windows?
15:31:21 [Spork]
mine simply refuses to start
15:31:27 [davb]
What the resulting CD?
15:32:25 [Spork]
no
15:32:28 [Spork]
Nero itself
15:32:35 [Spork]
I install it
15:32:44 [Spork]
I go to start it..it freezes and doesn't even start
15:32:51 [davb]
Weird. Nah, it is one of the few applications I have that actually works.
15:32:54 [Spork]
I did get it to start in Safe mode
15:33:12 [davb]
Do you have any other CD recording software installed? Sometimes they dork around with the drivers.
15:33:13 [Spork]
Do you happen to have Adaptec installed as well?
15:33:22 [Spork]
yeah I did, but I removed EVERYTHING
15:33:40 [Spork]
I even went as far as to update to the latest ASPI files
15:33:45 [Spork]
and back to the original ones
15:33:48 [Spork]
Still no go
15:33:48 [davb]
Usually installing apaptec ensures none of my cdr software works.
15:33:56 [davb]
I hate when that happens.
15:34:00 [Spork]
I got rid of it
15:34:01 [rbm]
NEVER use Adaptec stuff
15:34:16 [davb]
IDE or SCSI recorder?
15:34:16 [Spork]
I have Adaptec and Nero in Win2K on my other machine
15:34:29 [Spork]
Wth a burner as well BUT, the burner does not support overburning
15:35:06 [Spork]
And google decided to unlist me because my ISP blocked port 80
15:35:52 [Spork]
And so did Yahoo
15:36:05 [Spork]
And my boss wants a new report because the first one wasn't "good enough"
15:36:10 [Spork]
And I have a test on thursday
15:36:16 [Spork]
* Spork gets all pointy and sharp
15:37:05 [Spork]
Anyone have a stick I can borrow?
15:37:12 [davb]
http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml
15:37:12 [chump]
B: http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml from davb
15:37:21 [davb]
B:|Novel Security Measures
15:37:21 [chump]
titled item B
15:37:31 [davb]
B: markd2 is glad he is not this guy
15:37:31 [chump]
commented item B
15:39:57 [Spork]
heh
15:40:14 [Spork]
I guess they can claim anyone with a computer book is a hacker then
15:41:39 [ola]
rbm: did you hear something bad about RedHat 7.2?
15:42:47 [Spork]
Does it use a 2.4 kernel?
15:43:16 [ola]
yes. 2.4.7 I think.
15:43:18 [Spork]
if so look at the chat log for last night arond 11
15:43:31 [ola]
ok.
15:43:31 [nkd]
nkd has joined #openacs
15:44:36 [davb]
hi nkd
15:44:36 [rbm]
rbm has quit
15:44:49 [nkd]
hi
15:44:57 [nkd]
how are we doing today?
15:45:08 [Spork]
* Spork points out he's sharp and pointy
15:47:45 [davb]
I am fighting with pl/pgsql...
15:48:05 [Spork]
I'm fighting with Microsoft and Nero and Adaptec
15:48:14 [nkd]
yes, i have seen your posts to the discussion forums.
15:48:17 [Spork]
I doubt I will win
15:48:22 [Spork]
Anehoo
15:48:33 [Spork]
I'm going to go take care of school stuph
15:48:40 [Spork]
later all
15:48:40 [nkd]
i am trying to evaluate 60 papers (discrete mathematics)
15:48:47 [Spork]
oh boy
15:49:04 [Spork]
Sounds, exciting
15:49:07 [Spork]
I know how those papers can be
15:49:09 [nkd]
:)
15:49:12 [davb]
That is a good reason to visit IRC :)
15:49:17 [nkd]
yes
15:49:29 [Spork]
I had to write one
15:49:36 [Spork]
I think it was on Quantum Computing
15:49:42 [nkd]
:)
15:49:43 [Spork]
I got an A-
15:49:50 [Spork]
Mmm...Logic
15:49:58 [nkd]
yeap, who is spork
15:50:21 [Spork]
Spork is a utensil invented by Taco Bell or an OpenACS 4 developer
15:50:25 [Spork]
We can't tell which one
15:50:37 [markd2]
Sometimes goes by the tongue-twister Psychephylax
15:50:41 [Spork]
lol
15:50:46 [Spork]
Spork is now known as Psychephylax
15:50:51 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax is now known as Spork
15:50:58 [davb]
Spork: the man of 1000 nicks
15:51:00 [markd2]
woo hoo! I spelled it right
15:51:04 [Spork]
yes you did
15:51:05 [Spork]
:)
15:51:13 [Spork]
At least the long one has meaning :-/
15:51:26 [nkd]
even I understand it (it's greek)
15:51:26 [Spork]
Any of you know Latin and/or Greek mythology?
15:51:39 [Spork]
Ok, that answers my question :P
15:51:39 [davb]
* davb is totally clueless
15:51:44 [Spork]
You know what it means? hehe
15:51:52 [nkd]
soul keeper
15:51:56 [Spork]
Damn he's good
15:52:01 [Spork]
First person to know
15:52:02 [Spork]
lol
15:52:07 [nkd]
i am greek
15:52:09 [Spork]
Aha!
15:52:13 [Spork]
That explains it
15:52:23 [Spork]
* Spork is amazed
15:52:49 [davb]
First link on google for Psyche Phylax : http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7069/rationis.html
15:52:58 [davb]
Second: http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/2001-09-01.txt
15:53:04 [nkd]
:)
15:53:42 [davb]
or if you search for all one word, the chatlog is first. The chump is 4th
15:53:52 [Spork]
hehe
15:54:03 [Spork]
Spork has changed the topic to: Analysis of Psyche phylaxes
15:54:20 [Spork]
Spork is now known as OpenACS
15:54:23 [OpenACS]
ack
15:54:26 [nkd]
:)
15:54:36 [OpenACS]
OpenACS has changed the topic to: OpenACS development
15:54:40 [OpenACS]
OpenACS is now known as Spork
15:54:44 [Spork]
sorry about that
15:54:53 [Spork]
Got a little excited that someone knew what my name was
15:55:26 [Spork]
hey, you know what would be cool
15:55:33 [nkd]
go
15:55:43 [Spork]
If those txt files were converted to ps or pdf server side as well
15:56:02 [nkd]
you mean the search package
15:56:29 [Spork]
no
15:56:44 [Spork]
this http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7069/rationis.html
15:56:48 [Spork]
ack!
15:56:51 [nkd]
ok
15:56:56 [Spork]
this rather http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/
15:58:02 [Spork]
hmmm
15:58:07 [Spork]
should I build a new computer?
15:58:11 [Spork]
Or save for a new car
15:58:19 [nkd]
new computer
15:58:30 [Spork]
I have 4 now...but only 1 car
15:58:31 [Spork]
:-/
15:58:49 [nkd]
:) I have two but they are old
15:59:02 [Spork]
Mine are kind of old
15:59:14 [davb]
Spork: That is probably possible. It will be searchable as soon as I fix static-pages.
15:59:19 [Spork]
an Athlon 550, Athlon 750, K6-2 300 and a Pentium 200
15:59:34 [Spork]
Dave: Huh? Searchable?
15:59:46 [Spork]
I just want it to be in pdf or ps format :)
16:00:13 [davb]
Is there a free tool that can do it that you know of? HTML to PS or PDF?
16:00:45 [Spork]
i think there is one for html2ps
16:01:01 [Spork]
I think it comes in the Ghostview thing
16:01:36 [davb]
aha. I can probably do that then. Much more interesting than productive work.
16:01:43 [Spork]
:/
16:01:46 [Spork]
I'm the same way
16:02:04 [Spork]
If I stumble upon something that I think is interesting and useful I won't sleep until I figure it out
16:02:08 [docwolf]
docwolf has joined #openacs
16:02:17 [Spork]
That and battling the evil Microsoft demons
16:02:23 [nkd]
hi docwolf
16:02:25 [davb]
Hi docwolf
16:02:37 [Spork]
Hey docwolf
16:03:17 [davb]
http://www.tdb.uu.se/~jan/html2ps.html
16:03:17 [chump]
C: http://www.tdb.uu.se/~jan/html2ps.html from davb
16:03:22 [davb]
C:| html2ps
16:03:23 [chump]
titled item C
16:03:33 [davb]
C: Perl script for converting HTML to Postscript
16:03:33 [chump]
commented item C
16:03:34 [docwolf]
hi everybody!
16:04:01 [Spork]
there ya go
16:04:12 [Spork]
Now you can have a broader distribution medium :)
16:04:52 [Spork]
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/5247/
16:04:53 [chump]
D: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/5247/ from Spork
16:05:08 [Spork]
D:| HTML TO PDF Coversion (Linux based)
16:05:09 [chump]
titled item D
16:05:19 [Spork]
D: Now we can have the logs in 4 different formats!
16:05:23 [chump]
commented item D
16:05:54 [Spork]
:/
16:05:55 [markd2]
yö doc
16:06:03 [Spork]
oy!
16:06:11 [Spork]
* Spork gives Mark a cookie
16:06:23 [markd2]
mmm... cookies
16:06:25 [Spork]
* Spork pours a glass of Milk
16:06:28 [Spork]
want?
16:06:33 [markd2]
yes!
16:06:48 [Spork]
* Spork gives Mark a nice tall refreshing and cool glass of Milk to go with his Oracle shaped cookie
16:06:58 [markd2]
cookie8.1.7
16:07:14 [Spork]
Don't worry Mark, I'm working on the new and improved version 9 cookie
16:07:28 [Spork]
Still hasn't gotten the right tasty texture yet
16:08:21 [Spork]
anyhoo
16:08:36 [Spork]
I have to go get some paperwork done over at Administration...or my health insurance won't work :(
16:08:52 [Spork]
* Spork detaches
16:11:05 [markd2]
detachable sporkitude
16:18:36 [talli]
talli has joined #openacs
16:18:49 [nkd]
hello talli
16:19:08 [talli]
hey guys
16:19:29 [talli]
what's the word in #openacs land?
16:19:40 [markd2]
the word for today is "scram"
16:19:45 [markd2]
not as in "scram go away"
16:19:57 [markd2]
but as in wiping machines and de-fueling nuclear reactors
16:20:59 [davb]
hi talli
16:21:58 [talli]
markd, is that your next career? defueling nuclear reactors?
16:22:20 [markd2]
nah. I just like the word
16:22:24 [talli]
ok, good
16:22:27 [markd2]
I work with some retired Navy nukes
16:22:46 [talli]
wow.
16:22:50 [AaronSw]
Hmm.
16:22:56 [talli]
aD really was hiring like crazy for a while, huh?
16:23:29 [talli]
i didn't know war heads did such good jobs with the problem sets
16:23:35 [talli]
i bet they can really hack!
16:24:15 [AaronSw]
Nuke those bugs!
16:26:19 [markd2]
oops, sorry - I should say I am friends with some retired navy nukes
16:26:21 [markd2]
they're not at aD
16:28:43 [rbm]
rbm has joined #openacs
16:47:14 [loins]
loins has joined #openacs
16:48:53 [markd2]
* markd2 hands loins some girding
16:49:32 [talli]
who is this dangerous loins fellow?
16:49:47 [markd2]
probably some l00zer
16:50:02 [rbm]
h3y d00dz
16:50:08 [talli]
hey rbm
16:50:22 [nkd]
hi rpm
16:50:27 [nkd]
rbm
16:50:31 [rbm]
:)
16:50:39 [rbm]
Call me dpkg, but not rpm please :)
16:50:45 [nkd]
done :)
16:51:44 [loins]
whats up
16:51:50 [davb]
ARGH! I can't believe I was missing a PERFORM in my delete_folder function.
16:51:58 [markd2]
where's Vinod when we need him?
16:52:11 [davb]
heh
16:52:30 [donb]
donb has joined #openacs
16:52:38 [nkd]
hi don
16:52:54 [donb]
Howdy, folks, is that Neophytos?
16:53:01 [talli]
hey don
16:53:02 [nkd]
yeap
16:53:12 [docwolf]
good morning don.
16:53:26 [rbm]
woot. Don is here. Everybody hide!
16:53:26 [davb]
hi don.
16:53:49 [donb]
Must be nice to have your DSL line up and running, nkd...
16:53:49 [docwolf]
looks like the folks at aD are no longer speaking to don.
16:53:58 [nkd]
yes
16:54:08 [docwolf]
http://www.arsdigita.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg%5fid=000ikm&topic%5fid=21&topic=web%2fdb
16:54:08 [chump]
E: http://www.arsdigita.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg%5fid=000ikm&topic%5fid=21&topic=web%2fdb from docwolf
16:54:28 [donb]
The london office has informed me that they'll hold me personally responsible if aD closes their office.
16:54:35 [nkd]
:)
16:54:35 [docwolf]
rotfl
16:54:37 [talli]
haha
16:54:43 [donb]
Apparently they think the layoffs were a big secret.
16:55:01 [talli]
they really said that?
16:55:05 [donb]
A bunch of clients called the London office to ask if the news were true, etc etc.
16:55:07 [docwolf]
glad to see they are so in touch with corporate...
16:55:10 [talli]
whoa
16:55:46 [talli]
i would say that aD is positioning themselves as the dumbest company in history, but i know enough companies to say that's simply not true
16:55:49 [donb]
That it was a big secret? Not exactly but they said it wasn't public knowledge over there and that I was really evil for making it public. Sarah Ewing's immune to the argument that dozens of folks here in the US knew it was coming for the last month!
16:56:15 [donb]
I did point out that aD management wasn't exactly impressing anyone with their stellar performance.
16:56:29 [markd2]
maybe it's a client IQ test
16:56:31 [talli]
well, didn't you post that like a week after it happened?
16:56:47 [markd2]
if they can figure out their aD staff folks are lame-duck and will be going away soon, then they have a clue
16:56:50 [loins]
loins has quit
16:57:27 [docwolf]
it's really bizzaro
16:57:30 [donb]
Yeah, about that, long enough so I was really tired of hearing rumors, second-hand reports, and all that and felt it was about time for the straight shit from aD.
16:57:30 [markd2]
then again, if they're still with aD after all this time, maybe the clue level is low...
16:57:43 [docwolf]
web/db is like a bombed-out shell
16:57:49 [docwolf]
lots of 1-message threads
16:57:56 [markd2]
nobody cares anymore
16:58:14 [markd2]
* markd2 is apathetic
16:58:30 [rbm]
I stopped caring about a year ago
16:58:33 [donb]
Yeah, it's really a pity.
16:58:43 [docwolf]
i wonder about this keshian fellow
16:58:48 [docwolf]
whom greylock has installed
16:59:30 [donb]
My guess is that it's just a matter of wrapping up the ACS Java stuff in a bare minimum way and try to sell the IP and get whatever they can for it.
16:59:53 [donb]
But I'm only guessing, from the outside looking in...
17:00:05 [talli]
the keshian guy seems like somebody that they shoudl have installed a while ago
17:00:38 [talli]
if memory serves me correctly, he was the head of Cisco customer supprt for a while where they have a hotshit collaborative system
17:00:51 [rbm]
I hope Philip got some good money from Greylock
17:01:40 [no_hamhock]
no_hamhock has joined #openacs
17:01:40 [donb]
That's interesting if true ... I don't know anything about Keshian. I've heard that Philip did OK in the settlement. He's bought a Winnebago and keeps it parked at Janine and Mike Sisk's house when he's not travelling so they see him fairly often.
17:01:42 [talli]
btw, i invite everyone to openacs.museatech.net to find and fix bugs for teh site
17:02:25 [donb]
Did you guys decide to use the news package port so we can have user news submissions in the short term? (until ETP gains that kind of "submit and wait for approval" capability)?
17:02:41 [rbm]
talli: Request Error
17:02:41 [rbm]
can't read "forum_posts": no such variable
17:02:42 [rbm]
while executing
17:02:45 [talli]
i think that we would use that
17:02:54 [talli]
http://openacs.museatech.net
17:02:54 [chump]
F: http://openacs.museatech.net from talli
17:03:05 [talli]
f: new openacs.org alpha site
17:03:24 [talli]
we would gladly change it to the news module
17:03:30 [talli]
F: new openacs.org alpha site
17:03:31 [chump]
commented item F
17:03:36 [rbm]
talli: Looks like you have a bug on the homepage
17:03:47 [talli]
don, can you post that in the feedback forum?
17:03:51 [donb]
OK ... Robert Locke (Jun's boss) did a bang-up job of porting it in a hurry, that was pretty cool. That inspired me to sit down and port the simple directory package - you guys might want to add it. I use it all the time at the current openacs.org site even though there's no link to it anywhere...
17:03:59 [talli]
hmmm... you're right
17:04:19 [talli]
give me a moment to check with luke and ask him to peek at it
17:04:25 [donb]
Hmmm...openacs.museatech.net was working fine a couple of days ago...
17:04:37 [talli]
it was working fine a couple of minutes ago too
17:04:47 [talli]
i tried to delete a forum and it gave me a similar error
17:04:48 [donb]
likely story... :)
17:05:16 [talli]
thanks. :)
17:05:33 [talli]
there are still some nasty bugs in the bboards package
17:05:41 [donb]
markd - do you know much about the Oracle driver?
17:05:45 [markd2]
some
17:05:54 [talli]
maybe it's in the CR, but either way the thing is wacky
17:07:01 [donb]
Schema browser wouldn't work because OCI always returned error 1405, "NULL value returned", when the driver tried to read a LONG as type SQLT_LNG, even though the flag var to denote "NULL" was passed in. I think this is hosed in 8.1.6 OCI and wondered when/if it ever worked?
17:07:28 [donb]
It's an OCI lib bug in other words, not the driver, I'm sure it worked say in 8.0.5 or so.
17:07:58 [markd2]
the driver doesn't support LONG very well
17:08:24 [markd2]
make sure you have the latest - I think Rob merged in a patch that fixes Long support into aol33ad13
17:08:45 [donb]
The system catalog's full of LONGs unfortunately. I fixed it by having OCI convert it to a string. *really* long LONGs will get truncated but we only need it for system catalog entries and 10KB or so should be more than enough.
17:08:54 [donb]
I have the latest, yes - ad13 tarball.
17:09:37 [donb]
I went over it very carefully and the driver was calling OCI correctly - since my convert-to-string kludge works fine I won't worry too much about it.
17:09:43 [markd2]
sorry - clueless about that one
17:09:56 [donb]
It's just weird, gives me great confidence in Oracle :)
17:11:22 [talli]
hey don, mind posting that in the thread i started yesterday? :)
17:11:24 [davb]
ERROR: sp_folders_folder_id_fk referential integrity violation - key in cr_fol\
17:11:24 [davb]
ders still referenced from sp_folders
17:11:25 [chump]
Label ERROR not found.
17:11:29 [davb]
Yeah! I found it!
17:11:41 [talli]
just kidding :)
17:11:43 [donb]
Talli - mind posting what?
17:11:59 [donb]
Oh ... I get it, sorry, the Oracle vs. PG thread.
17:12:03 [talli]
your confidence in oracle because of the reasonably esoteric oracle bug
17:12:23 [donb]
LONG's deprecated - breaking it speeds up the process ...
17:12:45 [talli]
i believe you...
17:12:47 [donb]
There may've been more going on that I don't understand, though it looked correct to me.
17:13:41 [donb]
The Oracle docs are a great help, they give several examples in the 8.1.5 and 8.1.6 manuals of calling a particular routine (OCIDefineByPos) that's missing a parameter. Obviously they didn't actually test it ...
17:14:47 [donb]
So should we start a pool betting on when aD closes it's doors, or is that too morbid?
17:14:54 [markd2]
* markd2 puts money on 6 months
17:14:56 [davb]
Oh crap.
17:15:27 [donb]
I should e-mail Sarah Ewing and ask her to make a bet...
17:15:34 [talli]
* talli money on 8 months, but with further lay offs in 3
17:16:07 [rbm]
:)
17:16:14 [talli]
donb, did you get a response from any ex-aDers who are interested in working on openacs?
17:16:17 [donb]
Hmmm...I think I'll go 5 months ...
17:17:06 [donb]
Oh, folks will probably wander around. I think a lot of ex-aDers are probably in shock at the moment. We have some already, of course, from the previous round - those working for you, Walter McGinnis, Jon Griffin, etc.
17:17:44 [donb]
I got the usual hate mail from David Eison and Richard Li ...
17:18:01 [nkd]
:)
17:18:03 [donb]
But no snail-mail with white powder yet.
17:18:25 [davb]
should this work? RAISE NOTICE '***Deleting Folder: %',v_folder_row.folder.id;
17:18:32 [davb]
from inside a FOR loop?
17:18:38 [davb]
oops, never mind,
17:18:38 [markd2]
there's an ex-ad (ironicically enough) yahoo group. I've mentioend oacs over there some
17:18:59 [donb]
Philip mentioned that to Janine and Mike ...
17:19:05 [donb]
(ex-ad yahoo group)
17:19:13 [docwolf]
it's the wild west over there
17:19:42 [davb]
Aha.
17:19:46 [docwolf]
total group therapy situation. so much anger.
17:20:11 [rbm]
docwolf: Really?
17:20:15 [donb]
Really?
17:20:21 [donb]
Damn Roberto beat me to it!
17:20:26 [rbm]
:)
17:20:34 [donb]
Is this the real docwolf, then?
17:20:48 [rbm]
docwolf == Adam
17:20:53 [donb]
Yeah I know ...
17:21:03 [docwolf]
in the (cyber)flesh
17:21:15 [donb]
How's life in the VC world?
17:21:23 [donb]
Are you still doing that?
17:21:25 [docwolf]
going a-ok. lots of people are suicidal.
17:21:30 [docwolf]
i'm actually doing it part-time
17:21:36 [docwolf]
i'm working on a startup too.
17:21:54 [donb]
Oh, cool, maybe. What's the startup (or is it secret still)?
17:22:15 [docwolf]
no secret. still being formulated. It's medical retail, with an ecommerce twist
17:22:32 [docwolf]
(ie, only obliquely tech related, though relies heavily on tech)
17:22:35 [markd2]
hmm.. docwolf doing something twisted. big surprise
17:22:36 [donb]
I hear there's money to be made in Cipro ...
17:22:42 [docwolf]
ROTFL
17:22:45 [docwolf]
actually, i'm here in boca raton
17:22:54 [docwolf]
i live a couple of miles from "ground zero"
17:22:57 [docwolf]
of the anthrax outbreak.
17:23:20 [donb]
Yeah, huh, are people worried? I'm tired of the panic level ...
17:23:31 [davb]
My tree_sortkeys are broken. It is trying to delete ALL the folders in the tree.
17:23:31 [docwolf]
A day or two after it all happened, I went down to my local pharmacy and....
17:24:04 [donb]
Dave - AHA! Yeah, that would screw you good.
17:24:05 [docwolf]
tried to prescribe Cipro & doxycycline for myself & my family
17:24:55 [docwolf]
The local pharmacies were sold out. Totally. The pharmacist was worried that price gouging by Bayer would start. But apparently that hasn't happened.
17:25:09 [davb]
* davb peeks at DanW's code in the CR
17:25:37 [donb]
Living that close I would've probably done the same ... interesting that it sold out so quickly.
17:26:12 [donb]
The people really getting screwed by this are the coke dealers - it's gotta be tough to sell white powder on the street these days!
17:26:27 [donb]
Columbia's economy's about to go down the tubes...
17:26:30 [docwolf]
rotfl. That's so true.
17:27:08 [donb]
The whole thing's probably a DEA plot!
17:27:29 [donb]
(I'm not really paranoid, just twisted...)
17:27:38 [rbm]
maybe that's a good way to fight the war on drugs. FUD. Microsoft figured it out long before everyone else
17:27:58 [rbm]
* rbm and donb are in synch :)
17:28:02 [donb]
Actually IBM figured it out before Microsoft ...
17:28:15 [docwolf]
looks like MS is heading down the IBM path of doom
17:28:20 [docwolf]
becoming increasingly remote from reality.
17:28:36 [rbm]
docwolf: how so?
17:29:23 [docwolf]
back in the good old days, when IBM had no competition, they would compete against themselves. IBM'ers would talk about giving "good foils"
17:30:03 [docwolf]
.. which meant that someone gave a great presentation on an overhead projector... they essentially worked to amuse each other.
17:30:27 [docwolf]
their competition was so weak, they didn't really need to come up with competitive products. The only goals at IBM were to move up the internal food chain.
17:30:56 [donb]
And to keep your car clean enough so the company wouldn't wash it in the parking lot and bill you for it...
17:30:56 [docwolf]
So, "good foils" were more important than "good products".
17:31:24 [rbm]
And you think M$ is doing the same thing?
17:32:17 [docwolf]
Sure. Look at WinXP. There's nothing that's all that compelling there.
17:32:23 [docwolf]
(It's essentially win2k with a facelift.)
17:33:05 [donb]
Aw, c'mon, it's INNOVATIVE!
17:33:16 [donb]
I'm so tired of hearing MS use that word ...
17:33:30 [docwolf]
rotfl
17:33:42 [docwolf]
that's just it -- WinXP is innovative -- in its business model.
17:33:45 [talli]
does innovative = "out of the box"?
17:33:55 [talli]
and what box are we in?
17:34:02 [docwolf]
MS has entered the "good foil" stage of IBM -- they sit around all day coming up with new ways to maximize revenues and screw their customers
17:34:25 [donb]
I saw an XP ad on TV last night, talking about being able to e-mail photos and videos and all that (like we couldn't before)? This was followed minutes later by a Southwest Airline's ad saying "you can't e-mail a hug, fax a kiss" etc etc. Pretty funny ...
17:35:17 [rbm]
I'm also sick of the overuse to innovative, innovation by M$
17:35:28 [talli]
i think i've told you guys about the company that trademarked the phrase "Information for Everyone"?
17:36:03 [talli]
i was talking to some of the people that did that, and they were discussing it proudly with no sense of irony at all
17:36:04 [rbm]
I thought XP was their way of taking .NET to everybody
17:36:22 [donb]
That's the classic monopoly tactic - once you dominate, then you strategize ways of maximizing revenue since you don't need to knock down competitors. Oracle in its own way is drifting towards that position, if it weren't for MS SQL Server they'd be there today.
17:37:03 [donb]
They're rolling out their first .NET services at MSN just about now, apparently, to tie in with XP...
17:37:10 [talli]
does oracle really compete with SQL server?
17:37:21 [docwolf]
you know, it's funny. History really does repeat itself.
17:37:40 [donb]
They try to or rather MS tries to position SQL server as a viable alternative in the midrange.
17:37:41 [talli]
i mean, it seems that oracle is only develops with the > $1 million project in mind
17:38:09 [donb]
My Oracle t-shirt is one they put out touting Oracle's supremacy over MS SQL server ...
17:38:33 [talli]
hurumph. who does oracle compete with for the big financial systems?
17:38:44 [rbm]
I need to learn more about .NET. I don't really have a clear picture of what it is
17:38:56 [talli]
rbm: that might be the point :)
17:39:04 [docwolf]
rbm: it's the ultimate FUD tool.
17:39:12 [talli]
ok, openacs.museatech.net is back up
17:39:14 [donb]
part of a campaign they were running a couple of years ago. Remember a lot of money was spent on software during the dot-illusion and most of those systems weren't nearly as large as the big, big apps where Oracle still rules.
17:39:46 [donb]
What was the problem, talli?
17:40:00 [talli]
donb: that's the odd thing. people were buying oracle like it was candy for ridiculous sums with no sense of purpose
17:40:15 [talli]
the problem could have been a few things...
17:40:35 [talli]
but i guess to delete a forum you need to have general comments installed, which we didn't have
17:40:38 [talli]
so luke installed it
17:40:59 [donb]
Gotta have Oracle, just like aeron chairs and 21" flat-screen displays.
17:41:03 [talli]
however, we may have had a few people mucking with the code, so it may have been that too.
17:41:04 [rbm]
talli: That happens all the time anywhere in the computing industry.
17:41:11 [talli]
that's true.
17:41:13 [talli]
i agree.
17:41:33 [rbm]
talli: At work, I have to fight with people all the time to put in their heads that we can use better software that's free instead of paying thousands to M$
17:41:33 [donb]
You have to have GC installed to delete bboard????
17:41:42 [talli]
the reason i posted that question yesterday was to see whether there were verifiable reasons to use oracle rather than PG
17:41:57 [talli]
it seems for 99% of our projects we can use PG.
17:42:13 [donb]
Oh, there are some. Clients who can afford Oracle usually don't blink at high prices for labor :)
17:42:18 [talli]
if an openacs company is doing that, what single developer would be using oracle?
17:42:22 [rbm]
"You mean, we are not using Visual Basic???"
17:42:42 [docwolf]
donb: in this economy, though, it will be interesting to see how oracle shifts its strategy
17:42:53 [docwolf]
and Sun is completely hosed.
17:42:54 [talli]
does Sloan need oracle, or do they just have it already in place?
17:43:00 [donb]
Talli - yes, PG's really sufficient for most of the target clients for ACS-type sites...
17:43:34 [talli]
so perhaps i should go back and rephrase the question as "when would you want to use oracle rather than pg?"
17:44:06 [rbm]
anyone ever configured Apache+SSL on Debian?
17:44:07 [donb]
SloanSpace would be an interesting test case. I think PG would hold up just fine.
17:44:27 [markd2]
talli: Oracle competes with Sybase on the big financial systems
17:44:46 [markd2]
* markd2 catches up
17:44:47 [donb]
Adam - yeah you don't see many "Oracle - powers the Internet" ads any more, do you?
17:44:55 [markd2]
Wall street has lot of Sybase
17:44:58 [markd2]
and AOL is a sybase shop
17:45:32 [talli]
but is sybase taking any biz away from oracle, or just maintaining its customers?
17:45:52 [markd2]
dunno
17:45:55 [donb]
I remember AOL running sybase, yeah, from the talk on the structure of digital city that Jim (I think) put together.
17:46:12 [markd2]
in the Big Leagues, the sales folk directly work on the folks with money
17:46:18 [markd2]
not much wasting a lot of money on print ads
17:46:21 [markd2]
that only peons will read
17:46:55 [donb]
Apparently autodesk uses sybase internally, Janine had trouble controlling her gag reflex when she first started installing Oracle and working with it. Sybase apparently is easy to set up and use as well as being scalable and all that.
17:47:07 [talli]
unless the peons will use their money in the stock market :)
17:47:15 [markd2]
oracle has a nicer locking model
17:47:26 [markd2]
and (at least the sybase I had to use briefly), the largest (var)char size was 255
17:47:33 [markd2]
then you had to use the CLOB equivalent
17:47:55 [donb]
Yes, that's true - sybase is still page-level locking not row-level. Didn't know about the (var)char limit, that sucks.
17:48:04 [talli]
there's a big foundation looking to improve their IT that i salivated over. but then i saw they had sybase instaled
17:48:45 [talli]
so now i'm humping for someone to pay us for a port. or to find someone to do it
17:48:51 [rbm]
donb: Sybase is still page-level locking?
17:49:26 [donb]
Last time I looked it was, yes. page-level's not all that bad, not nearly as bad as table level, that's for sure. It's a lot easier to implement.
17:49:26 [rbm]
Argh. Time for my generals "History of the Caribbean" class
17:49:30 [markd2]
they might have row-level locking, but they're heavy-weight locks
17:49:37 [markd2]
in Sybase it's best to avoid transactions whenever possible
17:49:53 [markd2]
Oracle has very light-weight row-level locks (just flags in the block header) and does its best when in transactions
17:49:54 [rbm]
* rbm is graduating next spring. Woohoo!!!!!!
17:49:59 [markd2]
woohoo!!
17:50:02 [donb]
Hmmm...if they have row-level locking it's been done after the version they released in free-binary version for linux...
17:50:53 [donb]
PG's row-level locking's similar i.e. flags in the block header and you have fine-grained control over them, too. Pretty impressive, really.
17:51:07 [donb]
(flags in the row header, actually, in PG's case)
17:51:34 [markd2]
gotta go pick up my car (after 37 at the shop)
17:51:34 [markd2]
bbl
17:51:36 [markd2]
markd2 has quit
17:51:40 [rbm_]
rbm_ has joined #openacs
17:51:55 [rbm_]
later all
17:52:03 [rbm_]
weird
17:52:26 [donb]
OK I'm going to run, too. Try to get some openacs work done ...
17:52:29 [talli]
later rbm
17:52:31 [nkd]
later, rbm
17:52:33 [nkd]
later, don
17:52:41 [donb]
donb has quit
17:52:53 [rbm]
rbm has quit
17:53:50 [nkd]
nkd has left #openacs
18:01:20 [talli]
talli has quit
18:07:08 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit
18:18:41 [ola]
ola has quit
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rbm_ has quit
18:35:08 [davb]
Yeah! I fixed all the dumb errors!
18:36:32 [docwolf]
docwolf has joined #openacs
18:37:24 [docwolf]
anyone know what happened with the foundation/prize server?
18:37:29 [docwolf]
(ultimately)
18:37:44 [davb]
I thought it was hosting aD client web sites.
18:42:23 [davb]
but That is just guessing
18:52:28 [docwolf]
heh
18:52:32 [docwolf]
i'm just trying to find out
18:52:44 [docwolf]
if they got an alternative machine or something
18:53:26 [davb]
Not sure. That is a good question. I hope they do.
18:53:38 [davb]
If anyone cares I did fix static pages!
18:55:50 [rbm]
rbm has joined #openacs
19:08:09 [wtem]
wtem has joined #openacs
19:11:46 [davb]
hi rbm, wtem
19:13:04 [davb]
time to work on the drop script!
19:40:59 [AaronSw]
docwolf, we haven't gotten anything yet
19:43:40 [davb]
yippee! it works!
19:56:04 [wtem]
i heard there has been some interesting discussion over at yahoo about the aD
19:56:14 [wtem]
anyone know how to access it?
19:57:29 [davb]
you have to email to get let in.
19:57:52 [wtem]
email address?
19:58:00 [davb]
its on the page there I think.
19:58:23 [davb]
no never mind., you just have to include your name so they can confirm you worked at ad
19:58:39 [davb]
or use an obvious email address
19:59:01 [wtem]
nevermind, will subscribe...
20:00:04 [davb]
sorry to make it too complicated :)
20:05:06 [wtem]
it is alright
20:05:26 [wtem]
in the process of subscribing...
20:05:36 [docwolf]
back
20:05:40 [docwolf]
thanks for the update aaron
20:06:09 [AaronSw]
np
20:06:53 [davb]
* davb recommends all OpenACS developers work on the drop script FIRST. If its broken you can't run it again.
20:06:59 [wtem]
be back later
20:06:59 [davb]
you have to drop/create the db.
20:07:13 [wtem]
wtem has quit
20:20:26 [markd2]
markd2 has joined #openacs
20:23:39 [davb]
* davb reloads the datamodel for the upteemeth time because the drop script is still "a little bit" broken...
20:24:02 [davb]
at least it only take 1 second to drop and recreate a database in postgersql.
20:30:40 [vinod]
vinod has joined #openacs
20:30:53 [davb]
WOHOO!
20:30:54 [davb]
It works.
20:30:56 [davb]
Hi vinod
20:30:59 [vinod]
hey davb!
20:31:04 [davb]
Static-pages drop script that is.
20:31:11 [vinod]
cool!
20:31:38 [davb]
now to see if it works with data in the tables.
20:31:40 [rbm]
rbm has quit
20:32:50 [markd2]
It's the PERFORMer!
20:32:52 [vinod]
my ISP decided to change all my passwords without telling me, so i've been without internet/email, etc for 24 hrs
20:33:01 [vinod]
hey markd2!
20:33:09 [vinod]
* vinod performs a little dance
20:33:20 [vinod]
s/perform/PERFORM
20:33:23 [markd2]
I just installed OS/X on my desktop mac
20:33:25 [davb]
Wow, what luck!
20:33:45 [vinod]
cool! - what kinda mac?
20:33:50 [markd2]
an older G3/266 tower thingie, but it actually performs pretty well
20:34:02 [markd2]
once I get back from VA next week, I'll probably sacrifice my TiBook
20:34:04 [davb]
oops not its broken!
20:34:16 [davb]
psql:static-pages-drop.sql:43: ERROR: cr_folder_type_map_typ_fk referential integrity violation - key in acs_object_types still referenced from cr_folder_type_map
20:34:23 [davb]
have to fix it later. time to go home
20:35:06 [vinod]
is this OS X.1?
20:35:16 [vinod]
see ya davb
20:35:35 [davb]
davb has quit
20:35:40 [markd2]
yep
20:36:12 [vinod]
cool... i'm nearing the point that i need to start saving up for a TiBook
20:36:26 [vinod]
my battery died yesterday, so I'm chained to the outlet again
20:36:31 [markd2]
just start overcharging your patients
20:36:31 [markd2]
more
20:36:57 [vinod]
haha - 'So how badly do you want to get better?'
20:39:54 [hazmat]
hazmat has joined #openacs
20:40:05 [hazmat]
A:
20:40:06 [chump]
http://www.gnod.net
20:40:07 [chump]
Global Network of Dreams
20:40:08 [chump]
(davb) U little web site that trys to guess what you might like
20:40:21 [hazmat]
B:
20:40:21 [chump]
http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml
20:40:23 [chump]
Novel Security Measures
20:40:23 [chump]
(davb) markd2 is glad he is not this guy
20:40:28 [hazmat]
C:
20:40:29 [chump]
http://www.tdb.uu.se/~jan/html2ps.html
20:40:29 [chump]
html2ps
20:40:31 [chump]
(davb) Perl script for converting HTML to Postscript
20:40:36 [hazmat]
D:
20:40:36 [chump]
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/5247/
20:40:38 [chump]
HTML TO PDF Coversion (Linux based)
20:40:38 [chump]
(Spork) Now we can have the logs in 4 different formats!
20:40:46 [hazmat]
E:
20:40:46 [chump]
http://www.arsdigita.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg%5fid=000ikm&topic%5fid=21&topic=web%2fdb
20:52:34 [Spork]
ack
20:52:51 [Spork]
hi all
20:53:07 [Spork]
hey vinod!
20:53:28 [markdfoo]
markdfoo has joined #openacs
20:53:57 [Spork]
* Spork tries to entice mark with an oracle cookie
20:54:01 [markd2]
sure!
20:54:11 [markdfoo]
no thanks
20:54:14 [Spork]
* Spork gives one to mark
20:54:23 [Spork]
heh
20:54:30 [markdfoo]
Trying my IRC client under OS/X
20:54:55 [Spork]
i learned about normalization in databases today
20:55:10 [Spork]
fuuuuuun!
20:55:58 [markd2]
ooooh
20:56:10 [markd2]
* markd2 prefers abnormalization of databases
20:57:37 [vinod]
hey Spork
20:59:41 [vinod]
ah-ha! I knew markd2 had multiple personality problems
20:59:48 [vinod]
* vinod is willing to help you with that
20:59:55 [vinod]
(as long as both of you are insured)
21:00:06 [markd2]
no I don't
21:00:17 [markdfoo]
yes you do
21:01:04 [vinod]
haha - do I have to separate you again?
21:01:14 [markd2]
please do, that guy is annoying
21:01:20 [markdfoo]
yeah, look who's talking
21:01:45 [vinod]
for once, i agree with both of you
21:01:49 [vinod]
;-)
21:02:16 [markd2]
heh
21:02:22 [markd2]
* markd2 holds Vinod down
21:02:27 [markdfoo]
* markdfoo kicks Vinod
21:02:45 [markd2]
the PERFORMer
21:02:46 [markdfoo]
the PERFORMer
21:02:47 [vinod]
* vinod feels his childhood coming back again :-)
21:02:59 [markd2]
LOL
21:03:27 [markdfoo]
markdfoo has quit
21:03:44 [vinod]
ahh... the evil one is gone
21:04:00 [markd2]
heh
21:04:11 [markd2]
got the tibook on the desk alongside the monitor for the desktop unit
21:05:36 [vinod]
cool. what OS is the tibook running?
21:07:41 [markd2]
OS 9
21:07:48 [markd2]
9.1 I think
21:08:19 [vinod]
ahh - does 9.2 have any important fixes (my dad is running 9.0.4 on his G4 tower at work)
21:09:18 [markd2]
not that I know of
21:09:22 [markd2]
there's a reader report at Macintouch
21:09:33 [markd2]
there's always stuff fixed and stuff broken with each release
21:10:31 [vinod]
yeah - i think i'll just have him hold tight til i can go home for christmas
21:10:41 [vinod]
* vinod likes watching airfares drop through the floor
21:11:21 [nkd]
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21:11:29 [markd2]
hope you like being searched
21:12:12 [vinod]
yeah, i heard about your troubles :-(
21:12:35 [vinod]
it's weird, cuz I travelled this weekend and got nothing - well, one wand-wave, but that's it
21:13:51 [vinod]
the army guy at the security post was asking everyone questions, trying to see if they were nervous or whatever
21:13:59 [vinod]
he just said "how are you? .... have a nice flight" to me
21:16:26 [vinod]
i was a little worried, too, cuz i brought some chicken curry back home with me and I was afraid if they searched it, they might think it was something weird :-)
21:18:21 [markd2]
maybe it was your "be nice to me, I can prescribe cipro" button
21:20:30 [vinod]
vinod has quit
21:24:02 [Spork]
doh
21:24:11 [Spork]
I missed your little split personality show
21:24:19 [Spork]
see, you're lucky, you only got one evil one
21:24:34 [Spork]
I have one evil, one normal and one ...hell, even he doesn't know what he is
21:25:00 [talli]
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21:25:04 [talli]
hey guys
21:25:11 [nkd]
hey talli
21:25:36 [Spork]
hey talli
21:26:11 [markd2]
wow. "normal" and "Spork" on the same line
21:26:32 [Spork]
Hey hey! I'm from the metallic family, we don't bend in crooked ways
21:27:00 [markd2]
heh. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cx/uc/20011023/bz/bz011023.html?u
21:27:31 [Spork]
lol
21:27:33 [Spork]
Right on topic
21:27:52 [Spork]
Spork has changed the topic to: Multiple personality disorder and the need for OpenACS subsites
21:29:35 [Spork]
heh
21:29:45 [Spork]
guess what I found rummaging through the supermarket shelves today
21:33:17 [talli]
are there any network wizards on this channel?
21:33:25 [Spork]
I work for an ISP
21:33:28 [Spork]
heh does that count?
21:33:32 [talli]
i mean networking
21:33:34 [talli]
no, it doesn
21:33:35 [talli]
t
21:33:37 [Spork]
Mmmm...sonet bridging
21:33:50 [Spork]
We networked 3 states...does that count?
21:33:58 [talli]
someone that knows something about routing a T1 through a building
21:34:05 [Spork]
Go on...
21:34:05 [talli]
it would count... if you were the one that did it
21:34:13 [talli]
somehow i don't think so...
21:34:18 [Spork]
:P
21:34:31 [Spork]
What do you plan on doing with your T1
21:34:45 [talli]
i have a T1 in the basement of my building
21:34:51 [Spork]
ok, I networked my apartment building with my friend ... does that count?
21:34:54 [Spork]
:P
21:34:58 [talli]
the building is 12 floors
21:35:02 [Spork]
ok
21:35:15 [talli]
i have cat 5 wire from the basement to each apartment
21:35:16 [Spork]
and you want to network everyone to use it
21:35:33 [Spork]
That's not that hard :)
21:35:43 [talli]
is networking the building as simple as having a router in teh basement and sending the data straight up to each apartment?
21:35:46 [Spork]
you just need a router
21:35:50 [Spork]
yes
21:35:55 [Spork]
Make sure you get a good one
21:35:55 [talli]
good to know. thanks :)
21:36:07 [talli]
yeah, a nice phat cisco router
21:36:10 [Spork]
T1 --> WAN on router then LAN Ports ---> CAT 5
21:36:14 [Spork]
Although
21:36:16 [Spork]
wait
21:36:33 [Spork]
You need to elaborate on what's on the T1
21:36:45 [talli]
just residential surfing. and maybe a server
21:36:58 [talli]
musea might move it's collo facilities, though :)
21:36:59 [Spork]
ok, but how are those machines going to get IP addresses?
21:37:13 [talli]
IP addresses...
21:37:17 [Spork]
yep
21:37:19 [talli]
i don't think everyone needs a static IP
21:37:31 [Spork]
ok, then is there a DHCP server they can get IPs from?
21:37:39 [Spork]
How about DNS
21:37:54 [talli]
yeah. i would probably think that the router would set up DHCP
21:38:04 [talli]
DNS would probably be covered by the ISP
21:38:13 [Spork]
you should find that out
21:38:28 [talli]
we might outsource alot of this stuff to a good networking company
21:38:32 [Spork]
Also, another thing is direct connections
21:38:40 [Spork]
Lightpath? :)
21:38:47 [Spork]
Lightpath is good hehe
21:39:43 [talloo]
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21:39:43 [Spork]
Talli, I can find out more information from someone at work if you need more detailed info
21:39:45 [talli]
talli has quit
21:39:48 [talloo]
sorry, i got booted
21:39:52 [Spork]
* Spork enjoyed talking to himself
21:39:54 [Spork]
lol
21:39:58 [Spork]
What part did you left off on
21:40:18 [talloo]
i don't know what the hell happened
21:40:21 [talloo]
who the fuck is talloo?
21:40:22 [Spork]
eh
21:40:25 [talloo]
hold on.
21:40:27 [talloo]
brb
21:40:29 [Spork]
ok
21:40:34 [talloo]
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21:41:05 [docwolf]
i have a hardware question
21:41:13 [Spork]
ok
21:41:26 [docwolf]
this is going to be a stupd one
21:41:30 [Spork]
Eh
21:41:32 [talli]
talli has joined #openacs
21:41:36 [Spork]
wb talli
21:41:36 [talli]
hey
21:41:39 [talli]
thanks
21:41:39 [docwolf]
i need a way
21:41:47 [docwolf]
to transfer videotapes from a plain old VCR
21:41:50 [docwolf]
to my laptop
21:41:55 [Spork]
ok
21:41:59 [docwolf]
but... I obviously don't have a PCI slot
21:42:00 [Spork]
You need a TV tuner
21:42:05 [docwolf]
I do have firewire
21:42:05 [Spork]
Ummm
21:42:09 [Spork]
You got USB?
21:42:12 [docwolf]
yeah
21:42:13 [docwolf]
the problem is
21:42:17 [docwolf]
the USB stuff that's out there
21:42:20 [docwolf]
apparently sucks
21:42:25 [Spork]
ok
21:42:27 [docwolf]
so, i'm not sure what to do.
21:42:29 [Spork]
Firewire..hmmm
21:42:41 [Spork]
What USB stuff have you inquired about?
21:42:45 [docwolf]
also, the one product i found only captured the video -- not the audio. which would lead to a horrible dubbing situation
21:43:05 [docwolf]
crud... i forgot the brand
21:43:28 [Spork]
heh
21:43:32 [Spork]
Is this a Mac by any chance?
21:45:32 [Spork]
* Spork taps docwolf on the shoulder, still awake mate?
21:46:32 [markd2]
fly rzolf back and use his ibook
21:46:43 [Spork]
huh?
21:46:53 [Spork]
oh
21:47:59 [talli]
rzolf has been bitchign about his ibook for a while
21:48:04 [Spork]
heh
21:48:13 [talli]
however, that does not mean that it is good or bad
21:48:23 [talli]
simply that it is in rzolf's possession
21:48:27 [Spork]
talli, do you want me to ask someone at work for what exactli you need to get your T1 shared?
21:48:34 [talli]
no, i think that's cool.
21:48:52 [talli]
i'm going to probably get someone like techsquare to check it out.
21:48:56 [Spork]
my friend is really good with networking
21:49:02 [talli]
ok, well then sure
21:49:05 [Spork]
ok
21:49:09 [talli]
ask him what he would do
21:49:13 [Spork]
ok
21:49:21 [talli]
one of the fucked ups screwy things baout this building is...
21:49:39 [Spork]
* Spork gasps...Talli said a dirty woid!
21:49:42 [talli]
it's a new building and the contractors installed cat3 to all the apartments but promised T1
21:49:52 [Spork]
cat3 or cat5?
21:50:00 [talli]
so now they brought a T1 into the basement, but they can't run the data over the cat3 wire
21:50:09 [Spork]
whoa wait a second
21:50:19 [Spork]
hang on a sec
21:50:32 [talli]
so one contractor suggested that they convert the t1 data to SDSL, run it over the cat3 to each apartmetn and make each apartment buy an SDSL router
21:50:37 [talli]
yeah, they're asses.
21:50:48 [talli]
they installed cat3 in the walls, but cat5 in teh apartments.
21:51:02 [talli]
so the apartments are wired for data, but the building isn't.
21:51:11 [talli]
they assumed that everyone would just get DSL
21:51:38 [Spork]
idiots
21:52:17 [talli]
tell me about it
21:52:38 [talli]
so their going to install cat5 risers to each floor, then they have to go back into the walls to install cat5 to each apartment
21:52:56 [Spork]
if they're doing that
21:53:03 [Spork]
Well, hang on
21:53:12 [Spork]
I can't find the Cat3 limitations in my textbook
21:53:28 [Spork]
But Cat5 I know..it's 100 meters ~328 feet
21:53:45 [talli]
yeah, i know that. is it even possible to run data over cat3?
21:54:00 [Spork]
As far as I know, yes but it's more prone to noise
21:54:03 [talli]
i know there are 4 twisted pair in cat3 wire, but can it be done?
21:54:09 [talli]
hmmm...
21:54:49 [Spork]
CAT3: Category 3 wiring. Consists of four pairs of twisted pair wires used for medium-speed communications of up to 10 Mbps over distances of up to 100 meters. The FCC has specified a minimum of CAT3 wiring for telephones in new home construction.
21:55:00 [Spork]
So...
21:55:22 [Spork]
If you can of course, I would recommend you get the contractors to rewire it with cat5e
21:55:55 [rbm]
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21:55:57 [talli]
yeah, i know
21:56:01 [Spork]
And shoot it straight up from the basement
21:56:08 [rbm]
boo boo
21:56:16 [Spork]
And have a switch or hub per floor
21:56:36 [Spork]
That way the signal is amplified so you won't need (as many?) repeaters
21:56:53 [rbm]
eye sed boo!
21:57:31 [Spork]
moo!
21:57:40 [Spork]
talli: http://www.ce.org/networkguide/images/topology_bus.jpg
21:57:58 [Spork]
awk me too
21:58:00 [Spork]
;P
21:58:40 [Spork]
Where did docwolf go
21:58:44 [talli]
yeah, i'm familiar with that stuff, and i figured we might need smething per floor
21:59:16 [Spork]
yeah, you'll need something every 80 meters or so...
21:59:18 [rbm]
I just bought this very cool mechanic pencil
21:59:26 [Spork]
If you don't the people on the end won't have any signal
21:59:31 [Spork]
lol
22:02:02 [Spork]
talli, I will ask my friend about this stuff when he goes online or I will give him a call later
22:02:16 [talli]
no, don't worry about it. it's no big deal.
22:02:21 [talli]
don't go out of your way
22:02:24 [Spork]
docwolf (if you're still with us): http://www.eskapelabs.com/products.html
22:02:47 [Spork]
Eh, my friend likes these little questions, he won his states Networking competition
22:03:43 [talli]
haha. nice
22:04:02 [Spork]
yeah he got a free trip to Texas I think
22:04:35 [Spork]
heh
22:04:37 [Spork]
If anyone cares
22:04:48 [Spork]
Kellog's made a "Bart Simpson" cereal
22:05:10 [Spork]
and also "Homer's Cinnamon Donuts"
22:05:14 [Spork]
I gotta get that next
22:06:02 [Spork]
anyhoo
22:06:04 [Spork]
I be back in a bit
22:12:40 [nkd]
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22:18:08 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
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talli has quit
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rbm has quit
22:23:31 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects