01:38:10 <walloper> <lilo> "I lift this clavicle to worlds without number, and bring a new light to the Way, guiding this gate that all may prosper, those who guide and are guided, who light the Way and bask in the light so given....Behold, I open a new world."
01:38:19 <walloper> <lilo> Please welcome william.tenn.openprojects.net in Houston, TX, US!
01:39:53 <walloper> <lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network.  These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information.  To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'.  On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'.  Thanks.
01:40:53 <walloper> <lilo> Just a reminder, all: calvino.openprojects.net provides access to OPN via the 6bone.  Thanks.
03:27:57 <jillium> jillium (~jill@dsl092-186-227.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
03:28:04 <jillium> * jillium looks around.
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04:48:57 <syn|ack> jillium: no rest for the wicked? :)
04:49:36 <syn|ack> jillium: I noticed you said you wheren't feeling very well....rest up :)
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05:56:34 <redmonk> anyone still up?
06:37:12 <redmonk> redmonk has quit ("cya")
06:38:19 <walloper> <lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network.  These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information.  To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'.  On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'.  Thanks.
06:47:19 <s|a> s|a (~synack@210-86-62-17.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack
06:47:27 <s|a> hi folks
07:52:49 <quasi> hi s|a 
07:53:32 <s|a> * s|a waves to quasi
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09:22:20 <jillium> * jillium wakes up and waves.
09:22:36 <quasi> * quasi waves back
09:22:49 <jillium> hello, quasi.
09:23:04 <jillium> * jillium has a stomach flu.
09:23:12 <s|a> :(
09:23:21 <jillium> hi, synack.
09:23:26 <s|a> hi jillium
09:23:30 <s|a> hope you get well soon
09:23:31 <quasi> jillium: bummer
09:23:35 <jillium> thanks.
09:23:56 <jillium> Heh.  I've slept something like ten hours of the last twelve.  Which is odd, because it's 2am here.  :-)
09:24:22 <jillium> My life at the moment:  sleep.  urgent dash to toilet.  Vernor Vinge.  :-)
09:24:27 <quasi> jillium: you must be really sick - better call a doctor asap ;)
09:24:43 <jillium> heh.
09:25:08 <quasi> jillium: all that sleeping worries me ;)
09:25:22 <jillium> Oh, yes, the oversleeping problem!  :-)
09:25:36 <jillium> It is definitely a Concern.
09:25:46 <jillium> On the other hand, at the moment it's a bit better than being awake.
09:26:10 <jillium> So tell me what you're doing...
09:26:40 <jillium> * jillium bravely attempts to drink water.
09:31:00 <s|a> i wonder, anyone here brave a REST question?
09:40:51 <rik> * rik bravely hugs jill
09:41:49 <jillium> hi rik.
09:41:59 <rik> hihi
09:42:10 <rik> you worked yourself into exhaustion then?
09:42:37 <jillium> * jillium looks surprised, shrugs.
09:42:43 <jillium> I'm ill.  I don't know why.
09:42:56 <rik> awh
09:43:37 <rik> s|a: i'll go for the rest question, if you want, but jill's doing the sleeping, maybe she knows about rest :)
09:43:37 <jillium> Time to go back to sleep...night.
09:43:40 <rik> oh
09:43:47 <rik> i was about to say, i gather you saw star wars last night too
09:43:52 <jillium> yes
09:43:54 <rik> (last night my time)
09:44:01 <jillium> (noonish my time)
09:44:03 <rik> aha
09:44:13 <jillium> brb
09:44:16 <rik> with an attempt not to spoil anything for anyone else.. but..
09:44:18 <rik> Yoda!
09:45:15 <s|a> rik: I'm curious if a Jakarta struts like framework would be a good fit - looks to me like it might. Or is the best approach just to make mappings to URL's in one big controller sort of thing as you go?
09:45:59 <s|a> i have started something similar to Struts, but it also has access restrictions for the http-method
09:46:06 <s|a> i guess i'm second guessing myself
09:46:13 <s|a> wondering if it is a good fit
09:46:39 <s|a> handler classes are made linked to URI's on the fly
09:46:55 <s|a> change the XML config it changes which get linked
09:49:07 <rik> uhhhm
09:49:08 <rik> hm
09:49:15 <rik> that's not the rest i was thinking of.
09:49:33 <jillium> * jillium laughs.  rik got in over his head!
09:50:03 <rik> but for web based access, i have 1 view page and 1 controller "page" (it might not return any data. it usually redirects back to the view page)
09:50:21 <rik> jillium: I'm feline. my head isn't very high up unless i'm climbing :)
09:50:30 <jillium> hee
09:50:54 <rik> s|a: so, for each view of the data, you need a corresponding access controlled controller
09:51:50 <rik> jillium: if you want something to peruse and tinker with vaguely, I wrote a DTD for fun yesterday. If you want to contribute to it, you're welcome to
09:52:12 <jillium> Thanks, but I think I'm going to fall down and sleep some more.
09:52:23 <rik> also bear in mind I'm going to have to write a jill section. It's a "person" DTD, of which one tag is a friend tag :)
09:52:30 <jillium> Awwww....
09:52:35 <jillium> Maybe I should take a look.
09:52:38 <rik> * rik nods
09:52:41 <rik> maybe you should
09:52:44 <rik> * rik rummgages for url
09:52:59 <rik> http://hogan.openprojects.net/~rik/person.dtd
09:53:48 <rik> it's going to move when it becomes "final", because it's for the new, not yet finished being redesigned rikrose.net webpages :)
09:54:15 <s|a> rik, what REST where you thinking of?
09:54:40 <jillium> * jillium wonders too.
09:54:44 <rik> s|a: I was thinking it was the database thing.. though i can't remember what that stands for.
09:54:53 <s|a> ok
09:54:55 <rik> though it's in the "why not mysql" document.
09:55:08 <rik> (first hit from googling for "why not mysql")
09:55:10 <s|a> REST = REpresentational State Transition, competition to SOAP
09:55:20 <rik> ahhh
09:55:32 <rik> well, i know the *idea* of soap... i think.
09:55:41 <rik> but yes, i dived righ tin over my head there.
09:55:49 <jillium> rik:  You don't have any picture attributes or elements.
09:56:05 <jillium> (I don't remember the difference between attributes and elements)
09:56:33 <rik> jillium: <element attribute="some value">PCDATA from element's declaration</element>
09:57:01 <rik> * rik adds pictures....
10:01:38 <rik> okay, added zero or more image tags to person and friend tags.
10:01:54 <jillium> woo.
10:02:14 <jillium> You haven't added a boolean:  "have had sex with".
10:02:59 <rik> that wouldn't be a very well used field. the only people that will use this DTD are geeks, so that's just a depressing field...
10:03:17 <jillium> Sure, but think of the possibilities for graph construction.
10:03:29 <rik> like the #unix fuckchart
10:03:35 <jillium> exactly.
10:03:58 <rik> hm
10:04:03 <rik> maybe in the second version...
10:04:07 <jillium> * jillium laughs.
10:09:26 <jillium> * jillium notes that "qualification" doesn't make sense for all degrees, particularly American ones.  If it is what I think it is, namely the grade that goes with a degree.
10:09:52 <rik> the grade is marked as #IMPLIED, which means it's optional
10:10:01 <jillium> woo
10:10:02 <rik> (ie, implied by actually writing it in)
10:10:18 <jillium> what is name then?
10:10:58 <rik> I haven't made a valid and consistent naming scheme for it :/
10:11:08 <jillium> What is the difference between qualification and education, then?
10:11:11 <rik> I maybe ought to add an URL for the course.
10:11:21 <rik> education is where you wwent to school
10:11:30 <jillium> UK school?
10:11:44 <rik> well, well, plae of learning, rather than school
10:12:16 <jillium> hmm, should it be a 0 to n thing, rather than 0 or 1?
10:12:37 <rik> ie I went to Manchester Grammer Schol for 7 years, between 1991 and 1998, and left with 10 GCSEs and 3 A Levels. The education section covers the Manchester Grammer School bit, and the qualifications covers the GCSEs and A Level exams
10:13:06 <rik> it's a 1 to n thing right now.
10:13:09 <jillium> Ah.  That maps extremely badly onto the US educational system, FWIW.
10:13:16 <rik> oh.
10:13:21 <rik> then it needs changing.
10:14:16 <jillium> It seems to me that qualification is less its own thing than an attribute of education
10:14:22 <jillium> oh, wait, it is.
10:14:41 <rik> :)
10:14:52 <jillium> heh.
10:14:58 <jillium> Never mind.  That will work.
10:15:02 <rik> okay
10:15:16 <jillium> I can even put my odd schooling in there.
10:15:17 <rik> it wasn't meant to be a perfect fit for anything. it's not meant to be a resume generator.
10:16:02 <rik> but i noticed a few days ago that XML stuff maps very well onto database tables, with attribute tuples being primary keys of a table.
10:16:38 <rik> so, i may put all my friends into a database, and allow uploads of xml documents of their friends too, and so forth.
10:16:50 <jillium> * jillium nods.
10:16:51 <rik> then the graphing could be fun.
10:17:07 <rik> see who knows who from where, and if the world really is a small place :)
10:17:16 <jillium> mmmmmmmmmmm
10:17:33 <rik> haha. You could really be 7 steps from Kevin Bacon :)
10:17:40 <jillium> heh
10:20:22 <jillium> * jillium waves and goes back to sleep.
10:21:15 <rik> okay
10:21:16 <rik> thanks
10:21:17 <rik> * rik hugs
10:34:05 <s|a> what do you think you would call the bits in a URI i.e. host.com/bit/bit/bit/ - what are the 'bits' called?
10:35:36 <rik> * rik thinks RFC 2396 would answer that beytter than he could
10:35:44 <rik> they're directories though.
10:35:54 <s|a> yeah i'm glancing through it
10:35:59 <s|a> not really finding much
10:36:03 <s|a> they don't have to be directories
10:36:11 <rik> no, true.
10:36:12 <s|a> resources need not map onto directories
10:37:27 <s|a> hmm...they call them path_segments
10:43:23 <Seth> Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
10:45:16 <Seth> what happened to the python channel
10:58:02 <s|a> Ruby channel took over? :)
10:58:06 <rik> there's 113 people in it.
10:58:12 <s|a> doh
10:58:18 <s|a> * s|a waves hello to Seth
10:58:24 <Seth> hi
10:58:48 <s|a> Seth you wouldn't by chance be on rest-discuss ML, would you?
10:59:00 <Seth> nope
10:59:07 <Seth> what's ruby?
10:59:13 <s|a> ok, someone else with your name then...
10:59:36 <s|a> Ruby is a scripting language (www.ruby-lang.org)
11:00:06 <Seth> im looking for a browser widget for Tkinter
11:00:24 <s|a> something that will render HTML?
11:00:39 <Seth> yep
11:03:16 <s|a> hmmm
11:03:26 <s|a> i haven't found you a widget
11:04:19 <Seth> there an axtive X control for a browser, but no browser widget in python .. that's dissapointing :(
11:04:47 <Seth> i wonder if mozilla has one
11:05:00 <s|a> or maybe I have?
11:05:07 <s|a> http://www.pdqi.com
11:05:17 <s|a> have a look down about half way down the page
11:05:20 <s|a> Tkhtml
11:05:41 <s|a> perhaps you could take that widget out of that project
11:06:29 <s|a> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/index.html
11:06:30 <Seth> hmmm ... yeah this may be what i need ... can it do forms ... as in attach scripts to forms
11:06:59 <s|a> i have _no_ idea, I've barely touched TK, was just searching for it because you needed it - sorry I can't help more.
11:07:19 <s|a> it says is supports forms
11:07:21 <Seth> well you helped a lot .. thanks
11:07:25 <s|a> Supports forms. 
11:07:26 <s|a>  It supports the <APPLET>, <SCRIPT> and <EMBED>. (Partially. Full support is pending.) 
11:07:34 <s|a> not a problem
11:23:04 <s|a> night folks
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13:03:54 <pixel> pixel (~pixel@ns.bhsi.com) has joined #swhack
13:04:10 <Morbus> hey pixel!
13:04:16 <pixel> ditor/morb!
13:04:30 <Morbus> i had to make two changes in the Windows.pm, but other than that, the latest code works fine. 
13:04:34 <Morbus> (being today).
13:04:34 <pixel> where the hell did those other characters come from.
13:04:42 <pixel> that was supposed to siply be:  morb!
13:05:03 <pixel> I'm so very sorry I ddin't get to working on ampheta yesterday.
13:05:35 <Morbus> no worries, no worries.
13:05:41 <pixel> I had a momentary lapse in project load, so I thought I'd have at least a day of some downtime, but now I have  more projects =(
13:05:41 <Morbus> i'm gonna try the wrapper exe here in a few seconds.
13:05:49 <Morbus> but, there will be a very alpha relesae today.
13:05:54 <Morbus> there are some parts of it that just don't work
13:06:02 <pixel> cool.
13:06:05 <Morbus> and a fatal crashing bug that I know of (not a bug, more of a "forgot to check vfor that")_
13:06:34 <pixel> I tried it out when you emailed to code, and you had made SO many changes!  it was working very nicely.  I'm sure it's even better now!
13:06:53 <pixel> fatal crashes usually are of the "forgot to check for that" nature.
13:07:51 <Morbus> heheh, yeah. lots and lots of changes :)
13:07:56 <Morbus> the templates are getting stronger now.
13:08:01 <Morbus> that code is more generic, and faster.
13:08:08 <Morbus> it'll work, but still alphaish.
13:08:14 <Morbus> eventually, form variables will work on every page.
13:08:28 <Morbus> so ?del_url=<url> can be passed to anything.
13:08:57 <pixel> mmmmmm
13:11:32 <pixel> argh. I think my DAT drive may need some professional help.  it acts like it needs cleaned, but the cleaning tape doesn't seem to eb helping it.
13:15:42 <Morbus> ew.
13:15:49 <Morbus> got a bad error on the win32 compile.
13:16:15 <pixel> REAL bad?
13:16:23 <Morbus> i dunno yet.
13:16:32 <Morbus> i've run across the error before, but it was something related to ampheta.
13:16:47 <Morbus> this is related to perl... "can't locate constant.pm" in the compiled binary.
13:16:54 <Morbus> which usually means that perl2exe didn't include that in there.
13:17:28 <pixel> ahh. I've had that problem before also.
13:18:09 <pixel> from what I could tell, sometimes you have to explicitly use or require some modules that normally would be included by default.
13:18:14 <Morbus> yeaj/
13:18:18 <Morbus> just added "use constant;"
13:18:21 <Morbus> wonder what that does ;)
13:18:23 <pixel> yup =)
13:18:49 <pixel> maybe it adjusts to speed at which things more, to make them move at the same rate?  heheh
13:18:59 <pixel> more=move
13:19:01 <Morbus> hehehe.
13:19:06 <Morbus> go look that up for me, if you have amoment.
13:19:08 <Morbus> i'm fiddling here ;)
13:19:14 <pixel> actually, I don't think I've ever seen that module before.
13:19:24 <pixel> no prob.
13:19:26 <Morbus> its just like "strict"
13:19:29 <Morbus> but dunno what it does.
13:19:51 <Morbus> oh no.
13:19:52 <Morbus> sigh.
13:19:57 <pixel> constant - Perl pragma to declare constants
13:19:59 <Morbus> this is not good.
13:20:30 <pixel> This will declare a symbol to be a constant with the given scalar 
13:20:30 <pixel> or list value. 
13:20:30 <pixel>  
13:20:31 <pixel> When you declare a constant such as C<PI> using the method shown 
13:20:31 <pixel> above, each machine your script runs upon can have as many digits 
13:20:31 <pixel> of accuracy as it can use. Also, your program will be easier to 
13:20:33 <pixel> read, more likely to be maintained (and maintained correctly), and 
13:20:35 <pixel> far less likely to send a space probe to the wrong planet because 
13:20:37 <pixel> nobody noticed the one equation in which you wrote C<3.14195>.
13:20:55 <pixel> from the =head1 DESCRIPTION in constant.pm
13:20:59 <quasi> Morbus: perldoc constant ;)
13:21:18 <Morbus> windows has perldoc? <G>
13:21:21 <pixel> hehe
13:21:27 <pixel> yes, windows has perldoc.
13:21:32 <Morbus> oh yeah, it does.
13:21:33 <Morbus> heheheh.
13:22:55 <Morbus> dammit.
13:23:02 <Morbus> the wrapper binary isn't finding the /lib/ directory.
13:24:32 <Morbus> whoOOh!
13:24:45 <pixel> I think there's someway to specify additional library locations to perl2exe, but I can't remember how.
13:24:52 <pixel> I guess you found ti =)
13:24:59 <Morbus> actually, the error was something else entirely.
13:25:01 <Morbus> ;)
13:25:07 <pixel> ahhh.
13:25:09 <pixel> what?
13:25:25 <Morbus> the errors i were seeing were only warnings (that I can turn off). the real error was a missing win32 moduel.
13:25:38 <Morbus> are you gonna be around to test this in like two minuts?
13:25:38 <quasi> Morbus: perl.com has a nice big pdf with the perl docs ;)
13:25:59 <Morbus> perldoc.com is a god :)
13:26:04 <Morbus> quasi: you on win32 right now?
13:26:13 <quasi> Morbus: Noooooo!
13:28:31 <Morbus> noO?
13:29:57 <quasi> uname -a : Linux  ******** i686 unknown
13:31:01 <rik> rik has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:33:21 <pixel> I'll be here.
13:37:33 <Morbus> hmm.
13:39:34 <Morbus> well, this is odd.
13:40:36 <pixel> yes it is.
13:40:52 <pixel> uh... what are _you_ takling about?
13:41:12 <Morbus> i dunno. yet. its just really odd.
13:41:31 <pixel> hehehe
13:41:50 <rik> rik (spamtrap@dsl-212-23-24-254.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:42:09 <pixel> I'm beginning to realize I have way too many RSF sourceds to read.
13:42:38 <pixel> I have 111 channels in ampheta right now.  it's taking too long to read them all =)
13:42:48 <pixel> oops. RSF=RDF.
13:44:00 <Morbus> ah. think i found it.
13:45:32 <Morbus> much better.
13:49:54 <Morbus> i think.
13:51:03 <Morbus> argh.
13:54:44 <Morbus> i think i'm having a brain cramp
13:54:52 <pixel> hmm
13:55:05 <Morbus>    $channel_final_xml = eval { $channel_final_xml->parse($channel_xml); }
13:55:07 <Morbus> that won't work.
13:55:18 <Morbus> but i'm trying to protect against bad XML killing the program./
14:00:18 <rik> handle your errors then.
14:00:20 <rik> or use Python.
14:00:25 <rik> try:
14:00:36 <rik>     theXML = parse( raw );
14:00:45 <rik> except CrappyXML:
14:00:52 <rik>     handleit()
14:00:57 <rik> rest_of_code()
14:02:07 <pixel> morb - why doesn't that work?
14:20:19 <Morbus> pixel: becuase I forgot the semi-colon at the end.
14:20:25 <Morbus> funnily enough.
14:21:52 <Morbus> so, you want a copy?
14:21:59 <Morbus> i fixed the one major crasher.
14:22:04 <Morbus> everything else is jyst minor stuff, i think.
14:22:23 <Morbus> the "faster" way of doing templates is actually slower (it may be faster, but it seems slower), so I'm gonna switch back.
14:27:25 <rik> rik is now known as rik__
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14:29:41 <Morbus> pixel: just sent it to you.
14:29:56 <Morbus> be sure to backup your MyChannels.opml before playing ;)
14:30:09 <Morbus> there are a number of little bugs here and there.
14:30:17 <Morbus> i'll probably be adding it to the cvs sometime next week.
14:30:21 <Morbus> have you CVS'd before?
14:42:09 <redmonk> redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack
14:42:22 <Morbus> monk!
14:42:28 <redmonk> morbus!
14:42:34 <Morbus> i've sent two copies of the alpha out!
14:42:39 <redmonk> w00t!
14:42:42 <Morbus> so far, i'm 1/2 for hard drive formatting.
14:42:48 <Morbus> wanna make it 2/3? <G>
14:42:54 <redmonk> heh
14:43:01 <redmonk> um, not really <g>
14:43:06 <Morbus> boOO! HiIsassS!
14:43:26 <redmonk> ah, deal. i'm not in the mood
14:43:41 <redmonk> my coffee doesn't seem to be working.
14:44:08 <Morbus> OOh. look at mr. attitude! ;)
14:44:24 <redmonk> kiss off, iff. ;)
14:44:31 <Morbus> hehehe.
14:44:34 <redmonk> <grumble, maon, grumble>
14:44:46 <Morbus> actually, that sounds pretty cool: "kiss off, iff"
14:44:56 <Morbus> what's wrong?
14:45:11 <redmonk> wow. i think my topic form yesterday is the logest i've seen one up there
14:45:33 <redmonk> redmonk has changed the topic to: <redmonk> kiss off, iff ;)
14:45:44 <redmonk> redmonk has changed the topic to: <redmonk> kiss off, iff. ;)
14:46:11 <redmonk> i'm tired. not enough sleep last night, and i was at work at 7 this am, which meant getting up at 6
14:46:50 <Morbus> ewww.
14:48:44 <redmonk> "this one goes out to the one i love..."
14:48:48 <redmonk> "Fire!!"
14:49:09 <Morbus> bwahahaha
14:49:16 <Morbus> this one goes out to the one I left...
14:49:19 <Morbus> .... behind!
14:49:32 <redmonk> "coming down... over you..."
14:51:40 <redmonk> heh. same time period:
14:52:03 <redmonk> "Everything counts (in large amounts)"
14:52:13 <redmonk> Depeche Mode
14:52:22 <redmonk> (iTunes on shuffle the whole library)
14:53:08 <Morbus> :)
14:55:53 <pixel> sorry for my lack of presence. had a bit of an impromptu meeting.
14:56:33 <redmonk> oh, well, i *may* forgive you pixel
14:56:42 <pixel> hehe
14:57:10 <redmonk> i don't know though. ask morbus - i'm in an evil mood. <g>
14:57:19 <redmonk> redmonk is now known as evil-redmonk
14:57:52 <evil-redmonk> imagine me with a ST:TOS goatee
14:58:40 <pixel> Bizarro Redmonk.
14:59:11 <evil-redmonk> * evil-redmonk runs his webobjects app
14:59:44 <evil-redmonk> "grabbing hands, grab all they can..."
15:00:05 <evil-redmonk> * evil-redmonk /nick redmonk
15:00:11 <evil-redmonk> evil-redmonk is now known as redmonk
15:02:24 <Morbus> eheh! mirorr, mirror.
15:02:27 <Morbus> seig heil!
15:02:29 <Morbus> seig heil!
15:07:40 <redmonk> heh
15:08:48 <rik> * rik slaps morbus.
15:08:54 <rik> no sig heiling please.
15:10:19 <redmonk> hi rik
15:11:58 <redmonk> morbus: that *was* in poor taste, even by your standards. ;)
15:12:17 <redmonk> (and i mean that in all respect ;))
15:12:54 <Morbus> heh, heh.
15:12:57 <Morbus> thanks. i think.
15:13:09 <Morbus> hmm. i'm getting reports that the new template system in ampheta is much much slower.
15:13:56 <pixel> really?
15:14:13 <redmonk> yo pix
15:14:20 <pixel> yo yo
15:14:27 <Morbus> yeah.
15:14:33 <Morbus> have you tried it yet?
15:14:35 <pixel> the exe loads a helluva lot quicker.
15:14:42 <pixel> I just ran it. finally.
15:16:31 <pixel> the exe seems more responsive too (dragging the window, etc) than .92.
15:16:43 <Morbus> less namespace crowding, probably
15:17:11 <pixel> dunno, but it's definitely a nice side effect =)
15:17:22 <pixel> it's checking the channels now.
15:18:07 <Morbus> this guy's saying its taking a minute in ie and 2 minutes+ in opera.
15:18:09 <pixel> very odd though - when I ran the exe, it used to pop open a command-prompt type window, launch the GUI and the prompt window would dissappear.  and it's not in this version.
15:18:13 <Morbus> using a 99 channel subscription.
15:18:18 <Morbus> yeah, i noticed that too.
15:18:22 <Morbus> minor bug. dunno why.
15:18:30 <pixel> the browser shouldn't affect how long it takes to load.
15:19:18 <pixel> hmm. mine just launched the browser, and it is taking awhile (with the channels that were in the file you sent me.)  took about 15 seconds, 98 channels.
15:19:53 <pixel> the channel home layout is a bit horked. everything is centered, rather than left-aligned (i'm in IE6 thoguh)
15:20:52 <Seth> what happened to the python channel ?????
15:21:15 <Morbus> pixel: the individual items are centered?
15:21:21 <rik> rik has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:21:24 <Morbus> the actual main tables should be centered.
15:21:27 <Morbus> but the items should be left aligned.
15:21:47 <pixel> the items are centered too.
15:21:56 <pixel> I think it's an IE6 thing.
15:22:09 <Morbus> ah.
15:22:10 <Morbus> yeah, it is.
15:22:27 <Morbus> that table is aligned center, and unless you speficially align=left, it inherits.
15:22:38 <Morbus> which is technically what the spec says, but IE 6 just started doing it i that version.
15:23:50 <rik> rik (~rik@beware.of.the.little-black-kitty.net) has joined #swhack
15:25:43 <Morbus> eric, what kind of machine do you have?
15:25:55 <Ash> fwoosh!
15:26:33 <redmonk> yo ash
15:30:32 <Seth> Seth has quit ()
15:33:42 <pixel> sorry. more discussions in real life =)
15:34:16 <pixel> I have: Dual Pentioum III 650,  640MB RAM. IE6
15:36:53 <Morbus> it takes my machine about 30 seconds in moz, using the channels i sent you off.
15:37:00 <Morbus> and i have an 800. he has a 450.
15:37:13 <Morbus> so a minute for a page seems correct based on the processor speed.
15:37:17 <Morbus> but that's really really long.
15:37:44 <pixel> that isa long time.
15:37:57 <Morbus> i'm just trying v0.92 now to compare.
15:38:01 <Morbus> on this machien. never measured it before.
15:38:12 <redmonk> [that isa:[longTime class]] == YES;
15:38:31 <pixel> I had actually thought it should be a bit quicker using the new templating.
15:38:42 <Morbus> yeah, definitely slower. 
15:38:49 <Morbus> took 10 seconds in v092. 
15:38:56 <Morbus> 30 in v093. same channels, same machine. not good.
15:39:01 <Morbus> yeah, i thought it should be quicker too.
15:39:07 <Morbus> since there wouldn't be so much file access.
15:39:19 <Morbus> well, thats kinda a show stopper.
15:39:49 <pixel> good one redmonk.  in the same vein, I caught myself telling my wife "If you go to bed at midnight, then you're going to be real tired tomorrow"  and then, in my head, I heard "End If"
15:40:05 <redmonk> hehe
15:40:24 <pixel> that's quite a bit of a show stopper.  need to throw benchmark in there and see what exactly is taking so long.
15:41:06 <Morbus> about 24 seconds with a little bit.
15:41:30 <Morbus> the main change between the two versions is that we preprocessed all the RSS channels inside the code, and then sent the results to the template.
15:41:37 <Morbus> in this one, we're processing the rss in the template itself.
15:42:07 <Morbus> yeah, the other guy is reporting the same speed diff's between the two.
15:42:09 <Morbus> crap.
15:42:46 <pixel> this sucks.
15:43:01 <tav-> tav- (tav@host217-36-21-3.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
15:43:16 <pixel> my channels and add a channel are instant though. much quicker than the olde version.
15:44:11 <Morbus> well, that's good.
15:44:23 <Morbus> i'm experimenting with rss processing inside the code and not the template (as in v0.92) right now.
15:44:26 <Morbus> should be a few minutes.
15:45:23 <pixel> I think that's definitely the problem, and noe the actual template system.
15:45:30 <Morbus> i'm hoping.
15:46:44 <DoidV> DoidV (maurice@host217-39-68-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
15:47:11 <DoidV> well, swhack!
15:47:18 <DoidV> meritopia!
15:47:54 <redmonk> "These are not the DoidV's you're looking for..."
15:49:21 <DoidV> DoidV is now known as doid
15:50:22 <redmonk> "These are not the doid's you're looking for..."
15:50:51 <redmonk> "these aren't the doid's we're looking for. move along."
15:51:01 <rillian> rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack
15:53:21 <rik> * rik gets the urge to go homs and rethink his life
15:54:15 <doid> reading about python over at deadlybloodyserious
15:55:30 <doid> does the plesh use bsddb I wonder?
15:55:51 <Daniel> Daniel (~Daniel@jungle.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
15:57:06 <pixel> morb: the next exe doesn't do anything when you click on File>Exit
15:57:32 <Daniel> Daniel has quit ("Client Exiting")
15:57:42 <Morbus> yup. already reporte.d
15:57:44 <Morbus> go fix it ;)
15:57:59 <eikeon> eikeon (~eikeon@jungle.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
15:59:21 <pixel> ok. =)
15:59:24 <pixel> fixing.
16:00:11 <Morbus> you know, i'm wondering if it has anything to do with xml::rss.
16:00:19 <Morbus> even with it inside the code, its slow.
16:00:32 <Morbus> either that, or this new code just plain sucks.
16:02:35 <pixel> I tihink the new code is nice =)  I bet it's XML:rss.
16:02:46 <pixel> it seems to be pretty bloated.
16:03:13 <Morbus> well, dammit, that sucks <G>
16:03:42 <pixel> hehe
16:08:15 <pixel> odd.  can't find any reason for File>Exit not to work. gonna spit out some print statements to see what it's doing.
16:08:39 <pixel> I still love the nice modularization in this version.  all nice and clean.
16:09:26 <Morbus> :)
16:10:17 <pixel> it's not even getting the signal from the menu event.
16:13:46 <redmonk> redmonk has quit (Remote closed the connection)
16:15:13 <pixel> the systray menu doesn't show up at all.
16:15:31 <pixel> (neither does any icon for the program)
16:17:37 <sandro> sandro (~sandro@tux.w3.org) has joined #swhack
16:25:49 <doid-lapt> doid-lapt (~besirc@host217-39-68-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
16:26:09 <doid> doid is now known as doid-desk
16:28:37 <jillium> * jillium waves
16:28:56 <rik> * rik hugs jill
16:29:03 <rik> * rik purrs happily while doing so
16:29:12 <jillium> hey, rik.
16:29:15 <rik> how are you feeling today?
16:29:28 <jillium> Wow, I slept another seven hours didn't I?
16:29:54 <rik> aparently.
16:29:59 <jillium> Better.  The idea of eating is still like "oh noooooo" but I'm not doubled up whimpering.  A distinct improvement!
16:30:02 <jillium> * jillium cheers.
16:30:09 <rik> * rik nods
16:30:16 <jillium> * jillium drinks water.
16:30:24 <jillium> * jillium sends email saying she will not be in to work today.
16:30:29 <rik> want to play with the tinsel i've had hidden behind the sofa since christmas?
16:30:31 <rik> :)
16:30:35 <jillium> yaaay!
16:30:52 <rik> . o O ( big sparkly worm! )
16:30:53 <jillium> * jillium notices a bit of tinsel sticking out from behind the sofa.
16:31:03 <jillium> Hmmm, who left this here?
16:31:13 <rik> ah. alas, i am &quot;working&quot; on this website :/
16:31:23 <redmonk> redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack
16:31:23 <jillium> * jillium pulls on the tinsel and d...oh.  Bah.
16:31:28 <jillium> * jillium waves to redmonk.
16:31:37 <redmonk> * redmonk waves to jill
16:31:44 <redmonk> (bnoth of them)
16:31:50 <rik> * rik pouts
16:32:03 <redmonk> fret not, rik. i'm unavailable
16:32:10 <rik> heh
16:32:15 <rik> no, i meant this worlk think
16:32:20 <redmonk> oh
16:32:22 <redmonk> hee hee
16:32:25 <jillium> * jillium grins.  Suuuure, rik.
16:32:30 <rillian> rillian has quit ("breakfast")
16:32:35 <rik> i have to stop documenting procmail, in roder to edit crappy html by hand
16:32:49 <rik> because the way people have gone about it has *screwed* up FrontPage
16:33:03 <rik> * rik cheers for products that are unable to cope with the simplest concepts.
16:33:30 <rik> ahh. sod it.
16:33:37 <rik> * rik pounces on tinsel before jill can get there.
16:34:10 <redmonk> * redmonk listens to old depeche mode singles
16:34:27 <redmonk> * redmonk bops to Everything Counts (in large amounts)
16:35:55 <rik> * rik runs around jill, winding tinsel around her ankles, mischiviously
16:36:48 <redmonk> mischievously
16:37:03 <redmonk> sorry, spelling counts (in large amounts)
16:37:14 <jillium> oh, bad idea, rik.  Nothing that could inhibit my frequent dashes to the bathroom.  :-)
16:37:36 <rik> heh
16:37:46 <rik> redmonk: thanks.
16:37:54 <redmonk> rik:of course
16:38:04 <rik> * rik runs backwards around jills legs
16:39:02 <Morbus> ok.
16:39:05 <Morbus> pixel, you around?
16:39:08 <Morbus> it was definitley xml::rss.
16:39:17 <Morbus> i just dropped in the old v0.92 code, and its much faster.
16:39:54 <redmonk> good for you, Morbus
16:39:57 <GabeW> GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-104-95.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
16:40:04 <redmonk> pity about xml::rss
16:40:07 <Morbus> yeah, it is. 
16:40:13 <Morbus> i'll still be using it for writing out.
16:40:25 <Morbus> but I mean, my code is more generic - doesn't support the dc stuff, etc.
16:40:33 <Morbus> but xml::Rss is like three times slower.
16:40:35 <Morbus> thats really bad
16:40:44 <redmonk> yeah
16:40:53 <redmonk> you should do xml::rss::lite
16:40:55 <redmonk> ;-)
16:40:57 <Morbus> heh, he.
16:41:00 <Morbus> maybe I should :)
16:41:05 <Morbus> actually, it's off of XML::Simple.
16:41:09 <jillium> * jillium waves to Morbus and GabeW, and is glad they are here to cheer her in her lamentable state.  :)
16:41:14 <rik> :)
16:41:58 <redmonk> which state?
16:42:03 <jillium> stomach flu.
16:42:07 <redmonk> ugh.
16:42:14 <Morbus> off to lunch.
16:42:18 <jillium> heh.
16:42:19 <redmonk> we're gonna hit 100+ again today
16:42:25 <redmonk> in phoenix
16:42:25 <jillium> temperature?
16:42:28 <redmonk> yes
16:42:38 <redmonk> probably 103
16:42:46 <redmonk> this is the third time this week
16:42:50 <GabeW> whats jillium's temp going to get to? 
16:42:54 <jillium> Well, you do live in phoenix
16:43:02 <redmonk> yep.
16:43:08 <jillium> * jillium touches her forehead.  Woo, no fever.
16:43:22 <jillium> Good thing.  I get delerious disturbingly easily.  :)
16:43:23 <rik> * rik runs past jill, tailing tinsel
16:43:37 <redmonk> jillium: how will we know? ;)
16:43:51 <jillium> Hee.  You'll just have to take my word for it
16:43:53 <jillium> NO!
16:44:00 <jillium> We need JILLTEMPCAM!
16:46:35 <redmonk> pedantic web hack
16:49:10 <rik> * rik winds around redmonk's legs with the tinsel, tying is surprisingly tightly.
16:49:27 <redmonk> * redmonk whips out rocket launcher
16:49:36 <redmonk> *foom!*
16:49:41 <redmonk> *splutch*
16:50:09 <rik> dude.
16:50:12 <redmonk> heh
16:50:15 <redmonk> sorry
16:50:19 <rik> that's the messiest way i've seen of untangling tinsel from yourt legs.
16:50:50 <redmonk> * redmonk scoops remains of lower torso and sorts out the tinsel
16:51:06 <rik> * rik takes tinsel and runs around happily
16:51:14 <pixel> glad the problem was xml:rss!!
16:51:19 <redmonk> * redmonk wonders if he needs more variety in in his toolbox
16:51:31 <redmonk> * redmonk *respawns*
16:51:54 <rik> :)
16:53:44 <rik> * rik hops on jill's lap, and deposits tinsel, and waits.
16:54:07 <redmonk> you may want to wipe off that tinsel, jill
16:54:51 <jillium> eww.
16:55:21 <rik> it has bits of redmonk foot on it.
16:56:55 <jillium> * jillium cleans the tinsel with an alcohol swab.
16:57:04 <jillium> * jillium misses sbp.
16:57:12 <rik> awwh
16:57:21 <redmonk> we all miss sbp
16:57:24 <rik> how does an alcohol swab remind you of sbp?
16:57:35 <jillium> not sure.
16:57:51 <jillium> redmonk:  did he overtly say he was leaving or just stop turning up?
16:57:55 <rik> * rik puts paw on your head, check yuo're okay..
16:58:09 <redmonk> jill:dunno - i think he's just been busy
16:58:13 <redmonk> .seen sbp
16:58:13 <xena> sbp seen joining #swhack  ~ 19 hr(s) 12 min(s) 31 sec(s) ago
16:58:40 <jillium> I hope he's just been busy.  That's an excellent reason for being inactive.
16:58:42 <rik> he's only been idle an hour and 20
17:00:27 <jillium> But he's only on #swhack and hasn't said anything here in a long time.
17:07:54 <pixel> maybe he's become a mute.
17:09:42 <rik> hm
17:09:50 <rik> * rik shrugs and curls up
17:10:05 <redmonk> * redmonk eats a
17:10:05 <redmonk> *BURP*
17:10:12 <redmonk> bagel
17:10:29 <pixel> I think I'll maake some lunch.
17:10:55 <jillium> * jillium groans at the thought of lunch.  Ugh.
17:11:16 <rik> dry piece of toast?
17:11:18 <redmonk> lunch + stomach flu...
17:11:22 <redmonk> <incompatible types>
17:31:57 <jillium> .webster mistidurious
17:33:02 <rik> * rik rolls, stretches, resumes curled up status.
17:44:56 <Morbus> * Morbus returns.
17:45:17 <redmonk> Morbus!
17:46:13 <redmonk> sup, Iff?
17:48:23 <pixel> I can't figure our why the GUI functions aren't working.
17:48:47 <Morbus> hey monk.
17:48:52 <Morbus> pixel: i'm gonna send you two files.
17:48:56 <pixel> k.
17:49:00 <Morbus> replacements for the speed slowdown.
17:49:03 <Morbus> lemme know how they go.
17:49:07 <pixel> EXCELLENT.
17:49:47 <Morbus> the nice thing is, because the IO hasn't changed for the routines, I just dropped the 0.92 version in, made some changes based on settings, and that was it.
17:49:58 <Morbus> once I knew what it was, it was a five minute fix.
17:50:01 <pixel> mmm. modularization.
17:50:05 <Morbus> uh huh :)
17:52:57 <pixel> I did get the systray icon displaying though.
17:53:07 <Morbus> you did? awesome.
17:53:10 <Morbus> what was that about?
17:53:30 <pixel> you had renamed the file to win_icon.ico (it was .bmp) but didn't change it in the code.
17:53:47 <Morbus> oh. wow. that was dumb.
17:54:05 <pixel> the GUI deal is driving me nuts.  it's like DoEvents isn't firing, but I'm digging into it.
17:55:28 <Morbus> hmm. well, I know DoEvents is firing at least a bit, because we're still getting those thousands of errors.
17:55:30 <Morbus> which I'm trying to fix now.
17:55:45 <Morbus> those thousands of errors are the DoEvents listening for something to do, and not finding something, and saying we're dumb.
18:00:22 <Seth> Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
18:01:01 <Seth> anyone know what happened to the #python channel ?
18:06:05 <Ash> Ash has changed the topic to: welcome to #python
18:06:06 <Ash> here we ar
18:06:07 <Ash> e
18:06:39 <Morbus> ok.
18:06:51 <Morbus> i got the win32 unit's outta there, pixel.
18:07:58 <Seth> here's a newbe python question: how do i make a instance of something persistant between different cgi script calls ?
18:08:01 <redmonk> redmonk is now known as evil-redmonk
18:08:29 <Morbus> redmonk: uninit's rather.
18:08:33 <Morbus> in win32::gui under perl.
18:08:40 <evil-redmonk> save it to disk, seth
18:08:45 <Morbus> * Morbus agrees.
18:08:55 <Morbus> you could try cookies, but then you'll depend on the client
18:09:07 <Seth> let me ask it a different way ...
18:09:08 <evil-redmonk> cgi calls are seperate threads/execution environments
18:10:19 <Seth> i really want my ~process~ to always be running, then the cgi script come in and can access it ... i guess i should make a com out of it, but i want to do something that is cross platform ... does that make sense?
18:10:30 <evil-redmonk> ah
18:10:32 <evil-redmonk> i see
18:10:41 <evil-redmonk> not sure what to tell ya
18:10:56 <evil-redmonk> aaron or sbp are the pythonistas here
18:10:56 <Morbus> Seth: startup a daemon on a different port.
18:11:02 <Morbus> oh, yeah, python. 
18:11:04 <Morbus> i forgot. i dunno.
18:11:23 <oierw|sleep> oierw|sleep is now known as oierw
18:12:01 <Seth> will a daemon on a different port work in win platform ?
18:12:09 <Morbus> eric: to get rid of the dos window, jump into Windows.pm and remove the comment from "GUI::Hide".
18:16:36 <pixel> thanks for the files =)
18:16:47 <Morbus> did they work at all?
18:17:03 <pixel> not sure yet. jsut saved them off.
18:17:50 <pixel> worked fast a shit.
18:17:55 <Morbus> yeah? awesome.
18:17:58 <Morbus> i got the other guy trying it now.
18:18:05 <pixel> index.html loaded in about 1 second.
18:18:16 <Morbus> [14:18] <sal> good job; loaded in about 15 seconds
18:18:27 <pixel> we should get an icon for ampheta other than the perl icon.
18:18:40 <Morbus> its been on the todo for a while.
18:18:42 <Morbus> i need to fix up the icons.
18:18:47 <Morbus> if you want to, have a blast.
18:18:49 <pixel> this loads really quick.
18:19:00 <Morbus> [[[
18:19:00 <Morbus> [14:19] <Morbus> and that's normalish?  
18:19:00 <Morbus> [14:19] <sal> for that large of a page, yes
18:19:00 <Morbus> [14:19] <Morbus> awesome. 
18:19:00 <Morbus> [14:19] <sal> 900k
18:19:01 <Morbus> ]]]
18:19:09 <Morbus> so, yeah, XML::RSS is bad for mass reading ;)
18:19:12 <Ash> Morbus: just use a pentagram icon
18:19:13 <Morbus> i hope its not bad for mass writing.
18:19:21 <Morbus> i was gonna use it for future archivals.
18:20:14 <Morbus> pixel: does the X box in Win32 work for you?
18:20:15 <Morbus> it works for me.
18:20:18 <Morbus> but nothing else does.
18:20:22 <Morbus> the menus's respond to events.
18:20:24 <Morbus> but not to clicks.
18:20:27 <Morbus> it seems. 
18:20:30 <Morbus> * Morbus shrugs
18:20:35 <pixel> yes, the x works, but nothing else.
18:20:44 <pixel> yeah. no clicks.
18:20:44 <Morbus> waht about copy and paste
18:20:53 <Morbus> those worked for me, but those are magically autohandled.
18:21:02 <pixel> c/p works for me too.
18:21:18 <pixel> no menus.  right click on the systray icon is shot too.
18:21:30 <evil-redmonk> * evil-redmonk /nick redmonk
18:21:32 <Morbus> huh. i don't get it.
18:21:36 <evil-redmonk> evil-redmonk is now known as redmonk
18:21:37 <pixel> I don't either.
18:21:54 <Morbus> the only thing I can think of is th... you know...
18:21:56 <pixel> the gui_listen function is working fine.
18:21:57 <Morbus> i think i have a thought. 
18:22:11 <Morbus> in the old code, all those variables at the top were global to everything.
18:22:19 <Morbus> now they're only global to Ampheta::OS::Windows
18:22:27 <Morbus> I wonder if they have to be global everywhere again;
18:22:29 <Morbus> lemme try.
18:22:33 <pixel> k
18:28:54 <Morbus> huh. no, that didn't work.
18:30:37 <Morbus> mmkay.
18:30:40 <Morbus> the X box doesn't work.
18:30:43 <Morbus> it removes the window, but not the process.
18:30:50 <Morbus> the memory is still allocated.
18:30:53 <Morbus> sigh.
18:31:09 <pixel> eeew.
18:31:19 <Morbus> yeah, i had like six running.
18:31:36 <pixel> I have 5. hehehe
18:31:42 <Morbus> hehehe
18:31:56 <pixel> no wonder it was doing things a bit slower.
18:32:04 <Morbus> i have no clue what this could be.
18:32:13 <Morbus> to have some of it work, but not the rest.
18:32:23 <pixel> I'm very stumped myself.
18:32:34 <pixel> did you include a new Win32::GUI module in this version?
18:32:53 <Morbus> no, same one i've been using before.
18:33:01 <Morbus> its gotta be something with the modules.
18:33:09 <pixel> weird.
18:33:10 <Morbus> because namespaces are more private then in the other code.
18:33:45 <redmonk> hey guys - have you tried running the code w/o the GUI?
18:33:59 <redmonk> how's the speed then?
18:34:01 <Morbus> yeah it runs fine on Linux.
18:34:07 <Morbus> and OS X.
18:34:32 <redmonk> were the speed diffs w/ and w/o xml::rss tested on those platforms?
18:34:41 <pixel> the GUI responds much quicker in this version... I wonder if it has something to do with the non-handling of Clicks.
18:34:56 <redmonk> (wondering if the prob was the GUI, not cml::rss)
18:34:59 <redmonk> ugh
18:35:01 <redmonk> xml::rss
18:35:04 <redmonk> just a thought
18:35:30 <pixel> morb replaced xml:rss with his own code, and it's blazingly fast now.
18:35:31 <Morbus> redmonk: i doubt it. the gui is only the win32 gui. the "gui" for the web browser is different. 
18:35:43 <redmonk> ah
18:35:46 <redmonk> just checking
18:35:55 <redmonk> cool
18:35:57 <Morbus> pixel: you said gui_listen was working?
18:36:22 <Morbus> because we init the gui in AmphetaDesk.pm - I'm wondering if when we do gui_listen (also in Ampheta.pm) if its not passing the window object aorund.
18:37:12 <pixel> yes. I put a gui_note call in gui_listen, andit was continually writing out to the gui window - so gui_listen is working.  it's got to be something in win32::gui
18:38:09 <pixel> I'm looking at DOEvents now.
18:39:51 <Morbus> the documentation for win32 is woefully incomplete.
18:40:13 <pixel> I've noticed.
18:40:15 <pixel> uhm.
18:40:33 <pixel> you're not including your own Win32::GUI.
18:40:49 <pixel> it's using the one I have installed in perl.
18:41:07 <Morbus> in gui_init, it calls Win32::GUI.
18:41:17 <Morbus> OHh, right, in the lib/ I can't.
18:41:18 <Morbus> it's C code.
18:41:27 <Morbus> anything that's OS specific is wrapped into the .exe
18:41:29 <pixel> hmm.
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18:41:38 <Morbus> so the XML::Parser expat, etc. is all in the .exe
18:41:42 <Morbus> that's how it was in the old version as well.
18:41:45 <pixel> gotcha.
18:41:54 <Morbus> hey bitsko.
18:42:55 <bitsko> hey
18:43:04 <redmonk> yo 'sko
18:43:56 <pixel> my Win32::GUI doesn't have a DoEvents in it.  in fact, it's not C either.
18:44:30 <pixel> I must have something different than you.
18:45:14 <bitsko> * bitsko is getting excited to upgrade his main machine to MOSX10.1 and installing Fink, so the Linux box can be moved upstairs to be the Media Server
18:45:14 <pixel> very weird.
18:52:03 <Morbus> pixel: what version do you have? I know the perl thing hooks into some runtime calls of Win32. 
18:52:05 <Morbus> but not entirely how. 
18:53:38 <bitsko> hmm, does MOSX Perl have a free ObjC bridge yet?
18:54:06 <Morbus> not sure.
18:55:14 <bitsko> that would be yummy.  writing Cocoa apps in Perl (or Py or Ruby, for that matter).
18:55:17 <pixel> I have:  Version: 0.0.558 (15 Jan 2001)
18:55:26 <pixel> apparently the latest version.
18:56:32 <pixel> I just loaded my old mychannels.opml (117 channels) file into the new ampheta, and I'm getting quite a few blank news headers (and no articles).
18:57:09 <pixel> looks like the ones that it couldn't get data for are represented by blank lines, rather than them not being there.
18:57:26 <redmonk> bitsko: there's a pyobjc at sourceforge
18:57:41 <redmonk> there used to be a company that made "objective-everything"
18:58:02 <redmonk> it had objective-perl, python, javascript (i think) and another couple
18:58:08 <bitsko> yes, I'm familiar with Objective-Everything (and Joy)
18:58:12 <redmonk> ah
18:58:27 <redmonk> s OE still a viable product?
18:58:28 <bitsko> not in the purchasing mode tho, kwim
18:58:39 <redmonk> yep
18:58:54 <redmonk> like i said - pyobjc on sourceforge
18:59:03 <bitsko> dunno, I looked them up a while back and they didn't seem very lively.  got kicked out by Java and AppleScript bridges, mostly
18:59:07 <redmonk> i imagine it won't be too long before something happens with perl
18:59:19 <bitsko> and less than stellar support from Apple in working with IB/PB
18:59:23 <redmonk> yeah
18:59:30 <redmonk> more-s the pity
18:59:59 <bitsko> yes.  AppleScript's not so bad, but Python would be "richer" for writing apps in.  Java just sucks :-/
19:00:06 <redmonk> hehh
19:00:08 <redmonk> yeah
19:00:12 <redmonk> obj-c r00lz
19:00:18 <redmonk> hehe
19:02:05 <Morbus> sigh.
19:02:09 <Morbus> this is annoyng.
19:02:17 <Morbus> this is pretty crucial to fix, you think? ;)
19:05:10 <pixel> I think so =)
19:07:22 <Morbus> i'm scanning mailing list archives.
19:08:36 <Morbus> hey, there's a new Win32::GUI out.
19:08:59 <Morbus> not that that should hel[p things.
19:09:08 <pixel> heheh
19:09:43 <Morbus> argh.
19:09:44 <Morbus> no changelog
19:09:57 <pixel> that's not very nice.
19:09:57 <redmonk> ugh
19:10:01 <Morbus> no, its not.
19:10:09 <pixel> I couldn't find much at all in the way of documentation for it.
19:10:46 <Morbus> oh, hey, there's a tutorial.
19:15:39 <Morbus> * Morbus hopes for the best.
19:16:06 <Morbus> nope. upgrading didn't work.
19:16:13 <pixel> hmph.
19:25:09 <pixel> about time for me to head out.
19:25:16 <pixel> see everyone monday.
19:25:29 <pixel> morb - I'll be off and on all weekend.
19:25:33 <Morbus> mmHmm.
19:25:38 <Morbus> i'm not gonna release the alpha like this.
19:25:38 <pixel> hehe
19:25:44 <Morbus> memory leaking badly.
19:25:47 <pixel> I don't blame you.
19:25:57 <Morbus> i do have *some* couth ;)
19:26:58 <Morbus> i dont' understand why minimizing works.
19:27:01 <Morbus> and menu clicking works.
19:27:03 <Morbus> but nothing else.
19:27:07 <Morbus> i ean, those are events too, right?
19:27:12 <pixel> I can't find any reasoning for it either.
19:27:42 <pixel> but I actually can't figure out why ANYTHING works, because there's no DoEvents function in my win32::gui.
19:27:53 <Morbus> heh, heh.
19:28:13 <pixel> there's some slight of hand at work here.
19:30:33 <justme> justme (justme@i0274.vwa.wanadoo.nl) has joined #swhack
19:30:50 <pixel> ok. out I go. bye all.
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19:48:19 <redmonk> redmonk has changed the topic to: welcome to #amphetadesk-dev
19:48:39 <Morbus> * Morbus grumbles
19:48:46 <redmonk> heh
19:50:15 <redmonk> * redmonk misses the days of swhack of yore, when aaronsw and sbp, morbus and iff, deltab and others roamed the irc-scape
19:50:31 <redmonk> oh where oh where has my aaronsw gone?
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21:07:25 <Morbus> whoo!
21:07:29 <Morbus> solved my problems./
21:13:37 <redmonk> redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack
21:13:49 <redmonk> yo
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23:53:09 <AaronSw`> AaronSw` (~me@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
23:55:32 <AaronSw`> hi
23:55:52 <AaronSw`> AaronSw` has changed the topic to: ET, UT, FT, CT
23:56:01 <AaronSw`> * AaronSw` pokes sbp
23:56:08 <AaronSw`> ooh, doid!
23:56:15 <AaronSw`> .seen sbp
23:56:16 <xena> sbp seen joining #swhack  ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 10 min(s) 35 sec(s) ago
23:56:30 <AaronSw`> .seen sbp 2
23:56:30 <xena> sbp seen leaving #swhack [   ] ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 10 min(s) 52 sec(s) ago
23:56:33 <AaronSw`> .seen sbp 3
23:56:33 <xena> sbp seen leaving #plex [   ] ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 10 min(s) 59 sec(s) ago
23:57:24 <AaronSw`> i'm back home now
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