IRC log of swhack on 2002-05-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

01:38:10 [walloper]
<lilo> "I lift this clavicle to worlds without number, and bring a new light to the Way, guiding this gate that all may prosper, those who guide and are guided, who light the Way and bask in the light so given....Behold, I open a new world."
01:38:19 [walloper]
<lilo> Please welcome william.tenn.openprojects.net in Houston, TX, US!
01:39:53 [walloper]
<lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network. These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information. To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'. On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'. Thanks.
01:40:53 [walloper]
<lilo> Just a reminder, all: calvino.openprojects.net provides access to OPN via the 6bone. Thanks.
03:27:57 [jillium]
jillium (~jill@dsl092-186-227.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #swhack
03:28:04 [jillium]
* jillium looks around.
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04:48:57 [syn|ack]
jillium: no rest for the wicked? :)
04:49:36 [syn|ack]
jillium: I noticed you said you wheren't feeling very well....rest up :)
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05:56:34 [redmonk]
anyone still up?
06:37:12 [redmonk]
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06:38:19 [walloper]
<lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network. These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information. To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'. On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'. Thanks.
06:47:19 [s|a]
s|a (~synack@210-86-62-17.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack
06:47:27 [s|a]
hi folks
07:52:49 [quasi]
hi s|a
07:53:32 [s|a]
* s|a waves to quasi
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09:22:20 [jillium]
* jillium wakes up and waves.
09:22:36 [quasi]
* quasi waves back
09:22:49 [jillium]
hello, quasi.
09:23:04 [jillium]
* jillium has a stomach flu.
09:23:12 [s|a]
:(
09:23:21 [jillium]
hi, synack.
09:23:26 [s|a]
hi jillium
09:23:30 [s|a]
hope you get well soon
09:23:31 [quasi]
jillium: bummer
09:23:35 [jillium]
thanks.
09:23:56 [jillium]
Heh. I've slept something like ten hours of the last twelve. Which is odd, because it's 2am here. :-)
09:24:22 [jillium]
My life at the moment: sleep. urgent dash to toilet. Vernor Vinge. :-)
09:24:27 [quasi]
jillium: you must be really sick - better call a doctor asap ;)
09:24:43 [jillium]
heh.
09:25:08 [quasi]
jillium: all that sleeping worries me ;)
09:25:22 [jillium]
Oh, yes, the oversleeping problem! :-)
09:25:36 [jillium]
It is definitely a Concern.
09:25:46 [jillium]
On the other hand, at the moment it's a bit better than being awake.
09:26:10 [jillium]
So tell me what you're doing...
09:26:40 [jillium]
* jillium bravely attempts to drink water.
09:31:00 [s|a]
i wonder, anyone here brave a REST question?
09:40:51 [rik]
* rik bravely hugs jill
09:41:49 [jillium]
hi rik.
09:41:59 [rik]
hihi
09:42:10 [rik]
you worked yourself into exhaustion then?
09:42:37 [jillium]
* jillium looks surprised, shrugs.
09:42:43 [jillium]
I'm ill. I don't know why.
09:42:56 [rik]
awh
09:43:37 [rik]
s|a: i'll go for the rest question, if you want, but jill's doing the sleeping, maybe she knows about rest :)
09:43:37 [jillium]
Time to go back to sleep...night.
09:43:40 [rik]
oh
09:43:47 [rik]
i was about to say, i gather you saw star wars last night too
09:43:52 [jillium]
yes
09:43:54 [rik]
(last night my time)
09:44:01 [jillium]
(noonish my time)
09:44:03 [rik]
aha
09:44:13 [jillium]
brb
09:44:16 [rik]
with an attempt not to spoil anything for anyone else.. but..
09:44:18 [rik]
Yoda!
09:45:15 [s|a]
rik: I'm curious if a Jakarta struts like framework would be a good fit - looks to me like it might. Or is the best approach just to make mappings to URL's in one big controller sort of thing as you go?
09:45:59 [s|a]
i have started something similar to Struts, but it also has access restrictions for the http-method
09:46:06 [s|a]
i guess i'm second guessing myself
09:46:13 [s|a]
wondering if it is a good fit
09:46:39 [s|a]
handler classes are made linked to URI's on the fly
09:46:55 [s|a]
change the XML config it changes which get linked
09:49:07 [rik]
uhhhm
09:49:08 [rik]
hm
09:49:15 [rik]
that's not the rest i was thinking of.
09:49:33 [jillium]
* jillium laughs. rik got in over his head!
09:50:03 [rik]
but for web based access, i have 1 view page and 1 controller "page" (it might not return any data. it usually redirects back to the view page)
09:50:21 [rik]
jillium: I'm feline. my head isn't very high up unless i'm climbing :)
09:50:30 [jillium]
hee
09:50:54 [rik]
s|a: so, for each view of the data, you need a corresponding access controlled controller
09:51:50 [rik]
jillium: if you want something to peruse and tinker with vaguely, I wrote a DTD for fun yesterday. If you want to contribute to it, you're welcome to
09:52:12 [jillium]
Thanks, but I think I'm going to fall down and sleep some more.
09:52:23 [rik]
also bear in mind I'm going to have to write a jill section. It's a "person" DTD, of which one tag is a friend tag :)
09:52:30 [jillium]
Awwww....
09:52:35 [jillium]
Maybe I should take a look.
09:52:38 [rik]
* rik nods
09:52:41 [rik]
maybe you should
09:52:44 [rik]
* rik rummgages for url
09:52:59 [rik]
http://hogan.openprojects.net/~rik/person.dtd
09:53:48 [rik]
it's going to move when it becomes "final", because it's for the new, not yet finished being redesigned rikrose.net webpages :)
09:54:15 [s|a]
rik, what REST where you thinking of?
09:54:40 [jillium]
* jillium wonders too.
09:54:44 [rik]
s|a: I was thinking it was the database thing.. though i can't remember what that stands for.
09:54:53 [s|a]
ok
09:54:55 [rik]
though it's in the "why not mysql" document.
09:55:08 [rik]
(first hit from googling for "why not mysql")
09:55:10 [s|a]
REST = REpresentational State Transition, competition to SOAP
09:55:20 [rik]
ahhh
09:55:32 [rik]
well, i know the *idea* of soap... i think.
09:55:41 [rik]
but yes, i dived righ tin over my head there.
09:55:49 [jillium]
rik: You don't have any picture attributes or elements.
09:56:05 [jillium]
(I don't remember the difference between attributes and elements)
09:56:33 [rik]
jillium: <element attribute="some value">PCDATA from element's declaration</element>
09:57:01 [rik]
* rik adds pictures....
10:01:38 [rik]
okay, added zero or more image tags to person and friend tags.
10:01:54 [jillium]
woo.
10:02:14 [jillium]
You haven't added a boolean: "have had sex with".
10:02:59 [rik]
that wouldn't be a very well used field. the only people that will use this DTD are geeks, so that's just a depressing field...
10:03:17 [jillium]
Sure, but think of the possibilities for graph construction.
10:03:29 [rik]
like the #unix fuckchart
10:03:35 [jillium]
exactly.
10:03:58 [rik]
hm
10:04:03 [rik]
maybe in the second version...
10:04:07 [jillium]
* jillium laughs.
10:09:26 [jillium]
* jillium notes that "qualification" doesn't make sense for all degrees, particularly American ones. If it is what I think it is, namely the grade that goes with a degree.
10:09:52 [rik]
the grade is marked as #IMPLIED, which means it's optional
10:10:01 [jillium]
woo
10:10:02 [rik]
(ie, implied by actually writing it in)
10:10:18 [jillium]
what is name then?
10:10:58 [rik]
I haven't made a valid and consistent naming scheme for it :/
10:11:08 [jillium]
What is the difference between qualification and education, then?
10:11:11 [rik]
I maybe ought to add an URL for the course.
10:11:21 [rik]
education is where you wwent to school
10:11:30 [jillium]
UK school?
10:11:44 [rik]
well, well, plae of learning, rather than school
10:12:16 [jillium]
hmm, should it be a 0 to n thing, rather than 0 or 1?
10:12:37 [rik]
ie I went to Manchester Grammer Schol for 7 years, between 1991 and 1998, and left with 10 GCSEs and 3 A Levels. The education section covers the Manchester Grammer School bit, and the qualifications covers the GCSEs and A Level exams
10:13:06 [rik]
it's a 1 to n thing right now.
10:13:09 [jillium]
Ah. That maps extremely badly onto the US educational system, FWIW.
10:13:16 [rik]
oh.
10:13:21 [rik]
then it needs changing.
10:14:16 [jillium]
It seems to me that qualification is less its own thing than an attribute of education
10:14:22 [jillium]
oh, wait, it is.
10:14:41 [rik]
:)
10:14:52 [jillium]
heh.
10:14:58 [jillium]
Never mind. That will work.
10:15:02 [rik]
okay
10:15:16 [jillium]
I can even put my odd schooling in there.
10:15:17 [rik]
it wasn't meant to be a perfect fit for anything. it's not meant to be a resume generator.
10:16:02 [rik]
but i noticed a few days ago that XML stuff maps very well onto database tables, with attribute tuples being primary keys of a table.
10:16:38 [rik]
so, i may put all my friends into a database, and allow uploads of xml documents of their friends too, and so forth.
10:16:50 [jillium]
* jillium nods.
10:16:51 [rik]
then the graphing could be fun.
10:17:07 [rik]
see who knows who from where, and if the world really is a small place :)
10:17:16 [jillium]
mmmmmmmmmmm
10:17:33 [rik]
haha. You could really be 7 steps from Kevin Bacon :)
10:17:40 [jillium]
heh
10:20:22 [jillium]
* jillium waves and goes back to sleep.
10:21:15 [rik]
okay
10:21:16 [rik]
thanks
10:21:17 [rik]
* rik hugs
10:34:05 [s|a]
what do you think you would call the bits in a URI i.e. host.com/bit/bit/bit/ - what are the 'bits' called?
10:35:36 [rik]
* rik thinks RFC 2396 would answer that beytter than he could
10:35:44 [rik]
they're directories though.
10:35:54 [s|a]
yeah i'm glancing through it
10:35:59 [s|a]
not really finding much
10:36:03 [s|a]
they don't have to be directories
10:36:11 [rik]
no, true.
10:36:12 [s|a]
resources need not map onto directories
10:37:27 [s|a]
hmm...they call them path_segments
10:43:23 [Seth]
Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
10:45:16 [Seth]
what happened to the python channel
10:58:02 [s|a]
Ruby channel took over? :)
10:58:06 [rik]
there's 113 people in it.
10:58:12 [s|a]
doh
10:58:18 [s|a]
* s|a waves hello to Seth
10:58:24 [Seth]
hi
10:58:48 [s|a]
Seth you wouldn't by chance be on rest-discuss ML, would you?
10:59:00 [Seth]
nope
10:59:07 [Seth]
what's ruby?
10:59:13 [s|a]
ok, someone else with your name then...
10:59:36 [s|a]
Ruby is a scripting language (www.ruby-lang.org)
11:00:06 [Seth]
im looking for a browser widget for Tkinter
11:00:24 [s|a]
something that will render HTML?
11:00:39 [Seth]
yep
11:03:16 [s|a]
hmmm
11:03:26 [s|a]
i haven't found you a widget
11:04:19 [Seth]
there an axtive X control for a browser, but no browser widget in python .. that's dissapointing :(
11:04:47 [Seth]
i wonder if mozilla has one
11:05:00 [s|a]
or maybe I have?
11:05:07 [s|a]
http://www.pdqi.com
11:05:17 [s|a]
have a look down about half way down the page
11:05:20 [s|a]
Tkhtml
11:05:41 [s|a]
perhaps you could take that widget out of that project
11:06:29 [s|a]
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/tkhtml/index.html
11:06:30 [Seth]
hmmm ... yeah this may be what i need ... can it do forms ... as in attach scripts to forms
11:06:59 [s|a]
i have _no_ idea, I've barely touched TK, was just searching for it because you needed it - sorry I can't help more.
11:07:19 [s|a]
it says is supports forms
11:07:21 [Seth]
well you helped a lot .. thanks
11:07:25 [s|a]
Supports forms.
11:07:26 [s|a]
It supports the <APPLET>, <SCRIPT> and <EMBED>. (Partially. Full support is pending.)
11:07:34 [s|a]
not a problem
11:23:04 [s|a]
night folks
11:23:08 [s|a]
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12:24:51 [BenSw]
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BenSw has quit ("[quit message here]")
12:52:29 [Morbus]
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13:03:54 [pixel]
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13:04:10 [Morbus]
hey pixel!
13:04:16 [pixel]
ditor/morb!
13:04:30 [Morbus]
i had to make two changes in the Windows.pm, but other than that, the latest code works fine.
13:04:34 [Morbus]
(being today).
13:04:34 [pixel]
where the hell did those other characters come from.
13:04:42 [pixel]
that was supposed to siply be: morb!
13:05:03 [pixel]
I'm so very sorry I ddin't get to working on ampheta yesterday.
13:05:35 [Morbus]
no worries, no worries.
13:05:41 [pixel]
I had a momentary lapse in project load, so I thought I'd have at least a day of some downtime, but now I have more projects =(
13:05:41 [Morbus]
i'm gonna try the wrapper exe here in a few seconds.
13:05:49 [Morbus]
but, there will be a very alpha relesae today.
13:05:54 [Morbus]
there are some parts of it that just don't work
13:06:02 [pixel]
cool.
13:06:05 [Morbus]
and a fatal crashing bug that I know of (not a bug, more of a "forgot to check vfor that")_
13:06:34 [pixel]
I tried it out when you emailed to code, and you had made SO many changes! it was working very nicely. I'm sure it's even better now!
13:06:53 [pixel]
fatal crashes usually are of the "forgot to check for that" nature.
13:07:51 [Morbus]
heheh, yeah. lots and lots of changes :)
13:07:56 [Morbus]
the templates are getting stronger now.
13:08:01 [Morbus]
that code is more generic, and faster.
13:08:08 [Morbus]
it'll work, but still alphaish.
13:08:14 [Morbus]
eventually, form variables will work on every page.
13:08:28 [Morbus]
so ?del_url=<url> can be passed to anything.
13:08:57 [pixel]
mmmmmm
13:11:32 [pixel]
argh. I think my DAT drive may need some professional help. it acts like it needs cleaned, but the cleaning tape doesn't seem to eb helping it.
13:15:42 [Morbus]
ew.
13:15:49 [Morbus]
got a bad error on the win32 compile.
13:16:15 [pixel]
REAL bad?
13:16:23 [Morbus]
i dunno yet.
13:16:32 [Morbus]
i've run across the error before, but it was something related to ampheta.
13:16:47 [Morbus]
this is related to perl... "can't locate constant.pm" in the compiled binary.
13:16:54 [Morbus]
which usually means that perl2exe didn't include that in there.
13:17:28 [pixel]
ahh. I've had that problem before also.
13:18:09 [pixel]
from what I could tell, sometimes you have to explicitly use or require some modules that normally would be included by default.
13:18:14 [Morbus]
yeaj/
13:18:18 [Morbus]
just added "use constant;"
13:18:21 [Morbus]
wonder what that does ;)
13:18:23 [pixel]
yup =)
13:18:49 [pixel]
maybe it adjusts to speed at which things more, to make them move at the same rate? heheh
13:18:59 [pixel]
more=move
13:19:01 [Morbus]
hehehe.
13:19:06 [Morbus]
go look that up for me, if you have amoment.
13:19:08 [Morbus]
i'm fiddling here ;)
13:19:14 [pixel]
actually, I don't think I've ever seen that module before.
13:19:24 [pixel]
no prob.
13:19:26 [Morbus]
its just like "strict"
13:19:29 [Morbus]
but dunno what it does.
13:19:51 [Morbus]
oh no.
13:19:52 [Morbus]
sigh.
13:19:57 [pixel]
constant - Perl pragma to declare constants
13:19:59 [Morbus]
this is not good.
13:20:30 [pixel]
This will declare a symbol to be a constant with the given scalar
13:20:30 [pixel]
or list value.
13:20:30 [pixel]
13:20:31 [pixel]
When you declare a constant such as C<PI> using the method shown
13:20:31 [pixel]
above, each machine your script runs upon can have as many digits
13:20:31 [pixel]
of accuracy as it can use. Also, your program will be easier to
13:20:33 [pixel]
read, more likely to be maintained (and maintained correctly), and
13:20:35 [pixel]
far less likely to send a space probe to the wrong planet because
13:20:37 [pixel]
nobody noticed the one equation in which you wrote C<3.14195>.
13:20:55 [pixel]
from the =head1 DESCRIPTION in constant.pm
13:20:59 [quasi]
Morbus: perldoc constant ;)
13:21:18 [Morbus]
windows has perldoc? <G>
13:21:21 [pixel]
hehe
13:21:27 [pixel]
yes, windows has perldoc.
13:21:32 [Morbus]
oh yeah, it does.
13:21:33 [Morbus]
heheheh.
13:22:55 [Morbus]
dammit.
13:23:02 [Morbus]
the wrapper binary isn't finding the /lib/ directory.
13:24:32 [Morbus]
whoOOh!
13:24:45 [pixel]
I think there's someway to specify additional library locations to perl2exe, but I can't remember how.
13:24:52 [pixel]
I guess you found ti =)
13:24:59 [Morbus]
actually, the error was something else entirely.
13:25:01 [Morbus]
;)
13:25:07 [pixel]
ahhh.
13:25:09 [pixel]
what?
13:25:25 [Morbus]
the errors i were seeing were only warnings (that I can turn off). the real error was a missing win32 moduel.
13:25:38 [Morbus]
are you gonna be around to test this in like two minuts?
13:25:38 [quasi]
Morbus: perl.com has a nice big pdf with the perl docs ;)
13:25:59 [Morbus]
perldoc.com is a god :)
13:26:04 [Morbus]
quasi: you on win32 right now?
13:26:13 [quasi]
Morbus: Noooooo!
13:28:31 [Morbus]
noO?
13:29:57 [quasi]
uname -a : Linux ******** i686 unknown
13:31:01 [rik]
rik has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:33:21 [pixel]
I'll be here.
13:37:33 [Morbus]
hmm.
13:39:34 [Morbus]
well, this is odd.
13:40:36 [pixel]
yes it is.
13:40:52 [pixel]
uh... what are _you_ takling about?
13:41:12 [Morbus]
i dunno. yet. its just really odd.
13:41:31 [pixel]
hehehe
13:41:50 [rik]
rik (spamtrap@dsl-212-23-24-254.zen.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:42:09 [pixel]
I'm beginning to realize I have way too many RSF sourceds to read.
13:42:38 [pixel]
I have 111 channels in ampheta right now. it's taking too long to read them all =)
13:42:48 [pixel]
oops. RSF=RDF.
13:44:00 [Morbus]
ah. think i found it.
13:45:32 [Morbus]
much better.
13:49:54 [Morbus]
i think.
13:51:03 [Morbus]
argh.
13:54:44 [Morbus]
i think i'm having a brain cramp
13:54:52 [pixel]
hmm
13:55:05 [Morbus]
$channel_final_xml = eval { $channel_final_xml->parse($channel_xml); }
13:55:07 [Morbus]
that won't work.
13:55:18 [Morbus]
but i'm trying to protect against bad XML killing the program./
14:00:18 [rik]
handle your errors then.
14:00:20 [rik]
or use Python.
14:00:25 [rik]
try:
14:00:36 [rik]
theXML = parse( raw );
14:00:45 [rik]
except CrappyXML:
14:00:52 [rik]
handleit()
14:00:57 [rik]
rest_of_code()
14:02:07 [pixel]
morb - why doesn't that work?
14:20:19 [Morbus]
pixel: becuase I forgot the semi-colon at the end.
14:20:25 [Morbus]
funnily enough.
14:21:52 [Morbus]
so, you want a copy?
14:21:59 [Morbus]
i fixed the one major crasher.
14:22:04 [Morbus]
everything else is jyst minor stuff, i think.
14:22:23 [Morbus]
the "faster" way of doing templates is actually slower (it may be faster, but it seems slower), so I'm gonna switch back.
14:27:25 [rik]
rik is now known as rik__
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14:29:41 [Morbus]
pixel: just sent it to you.
14:29:56 [Morbus]
be sure to backup your MyChannels.opml before playing ;)
14:30:09 [Morbus]
there are a number of little bugs here and there.
14:30:17 [Morbus]
i'll probably be adding it to the cvs sometime next week.
14:30:21 [Morbus]
have you CVS'd before?
14:42:09 [redmonk]
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14:42:22 [Morbus]
monk!
14:42:28 [redmonk]
morbus!
14:42:34 [Morbus]
i've sent two copies of the alpha out!
14:42:39 [redmonk]
w00t!
14:42:42 [Morbus]
so far, i'm 1/2 for hard drive formatting.
14:42:48 [Morbus]
wanna make it 2/3? <G>
14:42:54 [redmonk]
heh
14:43:01 [redmonk]
um, not really <g>
14:43:06 [Morbus]
boOO! HiIsassS!
14:43:26 [redmonk]
ah, deal. i'm not in the mood
14:43:41 [redmonk]
my coffee doesn't seem to be working.
14:44:08 [Morbus]
OOh. look at mr. attitude! ;)
14:44:24 [redmonk]
kiss off, iff. ;)
14:44:31 [Morbus]
hehehe.
14:44:34 [redmonk]
<grumble, maon, grumble>
14:44:46 [Morbus]
actually, that sounds pretty cool: "kiss off, iff"
14:44:56 [Morbus]
what's wrong?
14:45:11 [redmonk]
wow. i think my topic form yesterday is the logest i've seen one up there
14:45:33 [redmonk]
redmonk has changed the topic to: <redmonk> kiss off, iff ;)
14:45:44 [redmonk]
redmonk has changed the topic to: <redmonk> kiss off, iff. ;)
14:46:11 [redmonk]
i'm tired. not enough sleep last night, and i was at work at 7 this am, which meant getting up at 6
14:46:50 [Morbus]
ewww.
14:48:44 [redmonk]
"this one goes out to the one i love..."
14:48:48 [redmonk]
"Fire!!"
14:49:09 [Morbus]
bwahahaha
14:49:16 [Morbus]
this one goes out to the one I left...
14:49:19 [Morbus]
.... behind!
14:49:32 [redmonk]
"coming down... over you..."
14:51:40 [redmonk]
heh. same time period:
14:52:03 [redmonk]
"Everything counts (in large amounts)"
14:52:13 [redmonk]
Depeche Mode
14:52:22 [redmonk]
(iTunes on shuffle the whole library)
14:53:08 [Morbus]
:)
14:55:53 [pixel]
sorry for my lack of presence. had a bit of an impromptu meeting.
14:56:33 [redmonk]
oh, well, i *may* forgive you pixel
14:56:42 [pixel]
hehe
14:57:10 [redmonk]
i don't know though. ask morbus - i'm in an evil mood. <g>
14:57:19 [redmonk]
redmonk is now known as evil-redmonk
14:57:52 [evil-redmonk]
imagine me with a ST:TOS goatee
14:58:40 [pixel]
Bizarro Redmonk.
14:59:11 [evil-redmonk]
* evil-redmonk runs his webobjects app
14:59:44 [evil-redmonk]
"grabbing hands, grab all they can..."
15:00:05 [evil-redmonk]
* evil-redmonk /nick redmonk
15:00:11 [evil-redmonk]
evil-redmonk is now known as redmonk
15:02:24 [Morbus]
eheh! mirorr, mirror.
15:02:27 [Morbus]
seig heil!
15:02:29 [Morbus]
seig heil!
15:07:40 [redmonk]
heh
15:08:48 [rik]
* rik slaps morbus.
15:08:54 [rik]
no sig heiling please.
15:10:19 [redmonk]
hi rik
15:11:58 [redmonk]
morbus: that *was* in poor taste, even by your standards. ;)
15:12:17 [redmonk]
(and i mean that in all respect ;))
15:12:54 [Morbus]
heh, heh.
15:12:57 [Morbus]
thanks. i think.
15:13:09 [Morbus]
hmm. i'm getting reports that the new template system in ampheta is much much slower.
15:13:56 [pixel]
really?
15:14:13 [redmonk]
yo pix
15:14:20 [pixel]
yo yo
15:14:27 [Morbus]
yeah.
15:14:33 [Morbus]
have you tried it yet?
15:14:35 [pixel]
the exe loads a helluva lot quicker.
15:14:42 [pixel]
I just ran it. finally.
15:16:31 [pixel]
the exe seems more responsive too (dragging the window, etc) than .92.
15:16:43 [Morbus]
less namespace crowding, probably
15:17:11 [pixel]
dunno, but it's definitely a nice side effect =)
15:17:22 [pixel]
it's checking the channels now.
15:18:07 [Morbus]
this guy's saying its taking a minute in ie and 2 minutes+ in opera.
15:18:09 [pixel]
very odd though - when I ran the exe, it used to pop open a command-prompt type window, launch the GUI and the prompt window would dissappear. and it's not in this version.
15:18:13 [Morbus]
using a 99 channel subscription.
15:18:18 [Morbus]
yeah, i noticed that too.
15:18:22 [Morbus]
minor bug. dunno why.
15:18:30 [pixel]
the browser shouldn't affect how long it takes to load.
15:19:18 [pixel]
hmm. mine just launched the browser, and it is taking awhile (with the channels that were in the file you sent me.) took about 15 seconds, 98 channels.
15:19:53 [pixel]
the channel home layout is a bit horked. everything is centered, rather than left-aligned (i'm in IE6 thoguh)
15:20:52 [Seth]
what happened to the python channel ?????
15:21:15 [Morbus]
pixel: the individual items are centered?
15:21:21 [rik]
rik has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:21:24 [Morbus]
the actual main tables should be centered.
15:21:27 [Morbus]
but the items should be left aligned.
15:21:47 [pixel]
the items are centered too.
15:21:56 [pixel]
I think it's an IE6 thing.
15:22:09 [Morbus]
ah.
15:22:10 [Morbus]
yeah, it is.
15:22:27 [Morbus]
that table is aligned center, and unless you speficially align=left, it inherits.
15:22:38 [Morbus]
which is technically what the spec says, but IE 6 just started doing it i that version.
15:23:50 [rik]
rik (~rik@beware.of.the.little-black-kitty.net) has joined #swhack
15:25:43 [Morbus]
eric, what kind of machine do you have?
15:25:55 [Ash]
fwoosh!
15:26:33 [redmonk]
yo ash
15:30:32 [Seth]
Seth has quit ()
15:33:42 [pixel]
sorry. more discussions in real life =)
15:34:16 [pixel]
I have: Dual Pentioum III 650, 640MB RAM. IE6
15:36:53 [Morbus]
it takes my machine about 30 seconds in moz, using the channels i sent you off.
15:37:00 [Morbus]
and i have an 800. he has a 450.
15:37:13 [Morbus]
so a minute for a page seems correct based on the processor speed.
15:37:17 [Morbus]
but that's really really long.
15:37:44 [pixel]
that isa long time.
15:37:57 [Morbus]
i'm just trying v0.92 now to compare.
15:38:01 [Morbus]
on this machien. never measured it before.
15:38:12 [redmonk]
[that isa:[longTime class]] == YES;
15:38:31 [pixel]
I had actually thought it should be a bit quicker using the new templating.
15:38:42 [Morbus]
yeah, definitely slower.
15:38:49 [Morbus]
took 10 seconds in v092.
15:38:56 [Morbus]
30 in v093. same channels, same machine. not good.
15:39:01 [Morbus]
yeah, i thought it should be quicker too.
15:39:07 [Morbus]
since there wouldn't be so much file access.
15:39:19 [Morbus]
well, thats kinda a show stopper.
15:39:49 [pixel]
good one redmonk. in the same vein, I caught myself telling my wife "If you go to bed at midnight, then you're going to be real tired tomorrow" and then, in my head, I heard "End If"
15:40:05 [redmonk]
hehe
15:40:24 [pixel]
that's quite a bit of a show stopper. need to throw benchmark in there and see what exactly is taking so long.
15:41:06 [Morbus]
about 24 seconds with a little bit.
15:41:30 [Morbus]
the main change between the two versions is that we preprocessed all the RSS channels inside the code, and then sent the results to the template.
15:41:37 [Morbus]
in this one, we're processing the rss in the template itself.
15:42:07 [Morbus]
yeah, the other guy is reporting the same speed diff's between the two.
15:42:09 [Morbus]
crap.
15:42:46 [pixel]
this sucks.
15:43:01 [tav-]
tav- (tav@host217-36-21-3.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
15:43:16 [pixel]
my channels and add a channel are instant though. much quicker than the olde version.
15:44:11 [Morbus]
well, that's good.
15:44:23 [Morbus]
i'm experimenting with rss processing inside the code and not the template (as in v0.92) right now.
15:44:26 [Morbus]
should be a few minutes.
15:45:23 [pixel]
I think that's definitely the problem, and noe the actual template system.
15:45:30 [Morbus]
i'm hoping.
15:46:44 [DoidV]
DoidV (maurice@host217-39-68-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
15:47:11 [DoidV]
well, swhack!
15:47:18 [DoidV]
meritopia!
15:47:54 [redmonk]
"These are not the DoidV's you're looking for..."
15:49:21 [DoidV]
DoidV is now known as doid
15:50:22 [redmonk]
"These are not the doid's you're looking for..."
15:50:51 [redmonk]
"these aren't the doid's we're looking for. move along."
15:51:01 [rillian]
rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack
15:53:21 [rik]
* rik gets the urge to go homs and rethink his life
15:54:15 [doid]
reading about python over at deadlybloodyserious
15:55:30 [doid]
does the plesh use bsddb I wonder?
15:55:51 [Daniel]
Daniel (~Daniel@jungle.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
15:57:06 [pixel]
morb: the next exe doesn't do anything when you click on File>Exit
15:57:32 [Daniel]
Daniel has quit ("Client Exiting")
15:57:42 [Morbus]
yup. already reporte.d
15:57:44 [Morbus]
go fix it ;)
15:57:59 [eikeon]
eikeon (~eikeon@jungle.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
15:59:21 [pixel]
ok. =)
15:59:24 [pixel]
fixing.
16:00:11 [Morbus]
you know, i'm wondering if it has anything to do with xml::rss.
16:00:19 [Morbus]
even with it inside the code, its slow.
16:00:32 [Morbus]
either that, or this new code just plain sucks.
16:02:35 [pixel]
I tihink the new code is nice =) I bet it's XML:rss.
16:02:46 [pixel]
it seems to be pretty bloated.
16:03:13 [Morbus]
well, dammit, that sucks <G>
16:03:42 [pixel]
hehe
16:08:15 [pixel]
odd. can't find any reason for File>Exit not to work. gonna spit out some print statements to see what it's doing.
16:08:39 [pixel]
I still love the nice modularization in this version. all nice and clean.
16:09:26 [Morbus]
:)
16:10:17 [pixel]
it's not even getting the signal from the menu event.
16:13:46 [redmonk]
redmonk has quit (Remote closed the connection)
16:15:13 [pixel]
the systray menu doesn't show up at all.
16:15:31 [pixel]
(neither does any icon for the program)
16:17:37 [sandro]
sandro (~sandro@tux.w3.org) has joined #swhack
16:25:49 [doid-lapt]
doid-lapt (~besirc@host217-39-68-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
16:26:09 [doid]
doid is now known as doid-desk
16:28:37 [jillium]
* jillium waves
16:28:56 [rik]
* rik hugs jill
16:29:03 [rik]
* rik purrs happily while doing so
16:29:12 [jillium]
hey, rik.
16:29:15 [rik]
how are you feeling today?
16:29:28 [jillium]
Wow, I slept another seven hours didn't I?
16:29:54 [rik]
aparently.
16:29:59 [jillium]
Better. The idea of eating is still like "oh noooooo" but I'm not doubled up whimpering. A distinct improvement!
16:30:02 [jillium]
* jillium cheers.
16:30:09 [rik]
* rik nods
16:30:16 [jillium]
* jillium drinks water.
16:30:24 [jillium]
* jillium sends email saying she will not be in to work today.
16:30:29 [rik]
want to play with the tinsel i've had hidden behind the sofa since christmas?
16:30:31 [rik]
:)
16:30:35 [jillium]
yaaay!
16:30:52 [rik]
. o O ( big sparkly worm! )
16:30:53 [jillium]
* jillium notices a bit of tinsel sticking out from behind the sofa.
16:31:03 [jillium]
Hmmm, who left this here?
16:31:13 [rik]
ah. alas, i am &quot;working&quot; on this website :/
16:31:23 [redmonk]
redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack
16:31:23 [jillium]
* jillium pulls on the tinsel and d...oh. Bah.
16:31:28 [jillium]
* jillium waves to redmonk.
16:31:37 [redmonk]
* redmonk waves to jill
16:31:44 [redmonk]
(bnoth of them)
16:31:50 [rik]
* rik pouts
16:32:03 [redmonk]
fret not, rik. i'm unavailable
16:32:10 [rik]
heh
16:32:15 [rik]
no, i meant this worlk think
16:32:20 [redmonk]
oh
16:32:22 [redmonk]
hee hee
16:32:25 [jillium]
* jillium grins. Suuuure, rik.
16:32:30 [rillian]
rillian has quit ("breakfast")
16:32:35 [rik]
i have to stop documenting procmail, in roder to edit crappy html by hand
16:32:49 [rik]
because the way people have gone about it has *screwed* up FrontPage
16:33:03 [rik]
* rik cheers for products that are unable to cope with the simplest concepts.
16:33:30 [rik]
ahh. sod it.
16:33:37 [rik]
* rik pounces on tinsel before jill can get there.
16:34:10 [redmonk]
* redmonk listens to old depeche mode singles
16:34:27 [redmonk]
* redmonk bops to Everything Counts (in large amounts)
16:35:55 [rik]
* rik runs around jill, winding tinsel around her ankles, mischiviously
16:36:48 [redmonk]
mischievously
16:37:03 [redmonk]
sorry, spelling counts (in large amounts)
16:37:14 [jillium]
oh, bad idea, rik. Nothing that could inhibit my frequent dashes to the bathroom. :-)
16:37:36 [rik]
heh
16:37:46 [rik]
redmonk: thanks.
16:37:54 [redmonk]
rik:of course
16:38:04 [rik]
* rik runs backwards around jills legs
16:39:02 [Morbus]
ok.
16:39:05 [Morbus]
pixel, you around?
16:39:08 [Morbus]
it was definitley xml::rss.
16:39:17 [Morbus]
i just dropped in the old v0.92 code, and its much faster.
16:39:54 [redmonk]
good for you, Morbus
16:39:57 [GabeW]
GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-104-95.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
16:40:04 [redmonk]
pity about xml::rss
16:40:07 [Morbus]
yeah, it is.
16:40:13 [Morbus]
i'll still be using it for writing out.
16:40:25 [Morbus]
but I mean, my code is more generic - doesn't support the dc stuff, etc.
16:40:33 [Morbus]
but xml::Rss is like three times slower.
16:40:35 [Morbus]
thats really bad
16:40:44 [redmonk]
yeah
16:40:53 [redmonk]
you should do xml::rss::lite
16:40:55 [redmonk]
;-)
16:40:57 [Morbus]
heh, he.
16:41:00 [Morbus]
maybe I should :)
16:41:05 [Morbus]
actually, it's off of XML::Simple.
16:41:09 [jillium]
* jillium waves to Morbus and GabeW, and is glad they are here to cheer her in her lamentable state. :)
16:41:14 [rik]
:)
16:41:58 [redmonk]
which state?
16:42:03 [jillium]
stomach flu.
16:42:07 [redmonk]
ugh.
16:42:14 [Morbus]
off to lunch.
16:42:18 [jillium]
heh.
16:42:19 [redmonk]
we're gonna hit 100+ again today
16:42:25 [redmonk]
in phoenix
16:42:25 [jillium]
temperature?
16:42:28 [redmonk]
yes
16:42:38 [redmonk]
probably 103
16:42:46 [redmonk]
this is the third time this week
16:42:50 [GabeW]
whats jillium's temp going to get to?
16:42:54 [jillium]
Well, you do live in phoenix
16:43:02 [redmonk]
yep.
16:43:08 [jillium]
* jillium touches her forehead. Woo, no fever.
16:43:22 [jillium]
Good thing. I get delerious disturbingly easily. :)
16:43:23 [rik]
* rik runs past jill, tailing tinsel
16:43:37 [redmonk]
jillium: how will we know? ;)
16:43:51 [jillium]
Hee. You'll just have to take my word for it
16:43:53 [jillium]
NO!
16:44:00 [jillium]
We need JILLTEMPCAM!
16:46:35 [redmonk]
pedantic web hack
16:49:10 [rik]
* rik winds around redmonk's legs with the tinsel, tying is surprisingly tightly.
16:49:27 [redmonk]
* redmonk whips out rocket launcher
16:49:36 [redmonk]
*foom!*
16:49:41 [redmonk]
*splutch*
16:50:09 [rik]
dude.
16:50:12 [redmonk]
heh
16:50:15 [redmonk]
sorry
16:50:19 [rik]
that's the messiest way i've seen of untangling tinsel from yourt legs.
16:50:50 [redmonk]
* redmonk scoops remains of lower torso and sorts out the tinsel
16:51:06 [rik]
* rik takes tinsel and runs around happily
16:51:14 [pixel]
glad the problem was xml:rss!!
16:51:19 [redmonk]
* redmonk wonders if he needs more variety in in his toolbox
16:51:31 [redmonk]
* redmonk *respawns*
16:51:54 [rik]
:)
16:53:44 [rik]
* rik hops on jill's lap, and deposits tinsel, and waits.
16:54:07 [redmonk]
you may want to wipe off that tinsel, jill
16:54:51 [jillium]
eww.
16:55:21 [rik]
it has bits of redmonk foot on it.
16:56:55 [jillium]
* jillium cleans the tinsel with an alcohol swab.
16:57:04 [jillium]
* jillium misses sbp.
16:57:12 [rik]
awwh
16:57:21 [redmonk]
we all miss sbp
16:57:24 [rik]
how does an alcohol swab remind you of sbp?
16:57:35 [jillium]
not sure.
16:57:51 [jillium]
redmonk: did he overtly say he was leaving or just stop turning up?
16:57:55 [rik]
* rik puts paw on your head, check yuo're okay..
16:58:09 [redmonk]
jill:dunno - i think he's just been busy
16:58:13 [redmonk]
.seen sbp
16:58:13 [xena]
sbp seen joining #swhack ~ 19 hr(s) 12 min(s) 31 sec(s) ago
16:58:40 [jillium]
I hope he's just been busy. That's an excellent reason for being inactive.
16:58:42 [rik]
he's only been idle an hour and 20
17:00:27 [jillium]
But he's only on #swhack and hasn't said anything here in a long time.
17:07:54 [pixel]
maybe he's become a mute.
17:09:42 [rik]
hm
17:09:50 [rik]
* rik shrugs and curls up
17:10:05 [redmonk]
* redmonk eats a
17:10:05 [redmonk]
*BURP*
17:10:12 [redmonk]
bagel
17:10:29 [pixel]
I think I'll maake some lunch.
17:10:55 [jillium]
* jillium groans at the thought of lunch. Ugh.
17:11:16 [rik]
dry piece of toast?
17:11:18 [redmonk]
lunch + stomach flu...
17:11:22 [redmonk]
<incompatible types>
17:31:57 [jillium]
.webster mistidurious
17:33:02 [rik]
* rik rolls, stretches, resumes curled up status.
17:44:56 [Morbus]
* Morbus returns.
17:45:17 [redmonk]
Morbus!
17:46:13 [redmonk]
sup, Iff?
17:48:23 [pixel]
I can't figure our why the GUI functions aren't working.
17:48:47 [Morbus]
hey monk.
17:48:52 [Morbus]
pixel: i'm gonna send you two files.
17:48:56 [pixel]
k.
17:49:00 [Morbus]
replacements for the speed slowdown.
17:49:03 [Morbus]
lemme know how they go.
17:49:07 [pixel]
EXCELLENT.
17:49:47 [Morbus]
the nice thing is, because the IO hasn't changed for the routines, I just dropped the 0.92 version in, made some changes based on settings, and that was it.
17:49:58 [Morbus]
once I knew what it was, it was a five minute fix.
17:50:01 [pixel]
mmm. modularization.
17:50:05 [Morbus]
uh huh :)
17:52:57 [pixel]
I did get the systray icon displaying though.
17:53:07 [Morbus]
you did? awesome.
17:53:10 [Morbus]
what was that about?
17:53:30 [pixel]
you had renamed the file to win_icon.ico (it was .bmp) but didn't change it in the code.
17:53:47 [Morbus]
oh. wow. that was dumb.
17:54:05 [pixel]
the GUI deal is driving me nuts. it's like DoEvents isn't firing, but I'm digging into it.
17:55:28 [Morbus]
hmm. well, I know DoEvents is firing at least a bit, because we're still getting those thousands of errors.
17:55:30 [Morbus]
which I'm trying to fix now.
17:55:45 [Morbus]
those thousands of errors are the DoEvents listening for something to do, and not finding something, and saying we're dumb.
18:00:22 [Seth]
Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
18:01:01 [Seth]
anyone know what happened to the #python channel ?
18:06:05 [Ash]
Ash has changed the topic to: welcome to #python
18:06:06 [Ash]
here we ar
18:06:07 [Ash]
e
18:06:39 [Morbus]
ok.
18:06:51 [Morbus]
i got the win32 unit's outta there, pixel.
18:07:58 [Seth]
here's a newbe python question: how do i make a instance of something persistant between different cgi script calls ?
18:08:01 [redmonk]
redmonk is now known as evil-redmonk
18:08:29 [Morbus]
redmonk: uninit's rather.
18:08:33 [Morbus]
in win32::gui under perl.
18:08:40 [evil-redmonk]
save it to disk, seth
18:08:45 [Morbus]
* Morbus agrees.
18:08:55 [Morbus]
you could try cookies, but then you'll depend on the client
18:09:07 [Seth]
let me ask it a different way ...
18:09:08 [evil-redmonk]
cgi calls are seperate threads/execution environments
18:10:19 [Seth]
i really want my ~process~ to always be running, then the cgi script come in and can access it ... i guess i should make a com out of it, but i want to do something that is cross platform ... does that make sense?
18:10:30 [evil-redmonk]
ah
18:10:32 [evil-redmonk]
i see
18:10:41 [evil-redmonk]
not sure what to tell ya
18:10:56 [evil-redmonk]
aaron or sbp are the pythonistas here
18:10:56 [Morbus]
Seth: startup a daemon on a different port.
18:11:02 [Morbus]
oh, yeah, python.
18:11:04 [Morbus]
i forgot. i dunno.
18:11:23 [oierw|sleep]
oierw|sleep is now known as oierw
18:12:01 [Seth]
will a daemon on a different port work in win platform ?
18:12:09 [Morbus]
eric: to get rid of the dos window, jump into Windows.pm and remove the comment from "GUI::Hide".
18:16:36 [pixel]
thanks for the files =)
18:16:47 [Morbus]
did they work at all?
18:17:03 [pixel]
not sure yet. jsut saved them off.
18:17:50 [pixel]
worked fast a shit.
18:17:55 [Morbus]
yeah? awesome.
18:17:58 [Morbus]
i got the other guy trying it now.
18:18:05 [pixel]
index.html loaded in about 1 second.
18:18:16 [Morbus]
[14:18] <sal> good job; loaded in about 15 seconds
18:18:27 [pixel]
we should get an icon for ampheta other than the perl icon.
18:18:40 [Morbus]
its been on the todo for a while.
18:18:42 [Morbus]
i need to fix up the icons.
18:18:47 [Morbus]
if you want to, have a blast.
18:18:49 [pixel]
this loads really quick.
18:19:00 [Morbus]
[[[
18:19:00 [Morbus]
[14:19] <Morbus> and that's normalish?
18:19:00 [Morbus]
[14:19] <sal> for that large of a page, yes
18:19:00 [Morbus]
[14:19] <Morbus> awesome.
18:19:00 [Morbus]
[14:19] <sal> 900k
18:19:01 [Morbus]
]]]
18:19:09 [Morbus]
so, yeah, XML::RSS is bad for mass reading ;)
18:19:12 [Ash]
Morbus: just use a pentagram icon
18:19:13 [Morbus]
i hope its not bad for mass writing.
18:19:21 [Morbus]
i was gonna use it for future archivals.
18:20:14 [Morbus]
pixel: does the X box in Win32 work for you?
18:20:15 [Morbus]
it works for me.
18:20:18 [Morbus]
but nothing else does.
18:20:22 [Morbus]
the menus's respond to events.
18:20:24 [Morbus]
but not to clicks.
18:20:27 [Morbus]
it seems.
18:20:30 [Morbus]
* Morbus shrugs
18:20:35 [pixel]
yes, the x works, but nothing else.
18:20:44 [pixel]
yeah. no clicks.
18:20:44 [Morbus]
waht about copy and paste
18:20:53 [Morbus]
those worked for me, but those are magically autohandled.
18:21:02 [pixel]
c/p works for me too.
18:21:18 [pixel]
no menus. right click on the systray icon is shot too.
18:21:30 [evil-redmonk]
* evil-redmonk /nick redmonk
18:21:32 [Morbus]
huh. i don't get it.
18:21:36 [evil-redmonk]
evil-redmonk is now known as redmonk
18:21:37 [pixel]
I don't either.
18:21:54 [Morbus]
the only thing I can think of is th... you know...
18:21:56 [pixel]
the gui_listen function is working fine.
18:21:57 [Morbus]
i think i have a thought.
18:22:11 [Morbus]
in the old code, all those variables at the top were global to everything.
18:22:19 [Morbus]
now they're only global to Ampheta::OS::Windows
18:22:27 [Morbus]
I wonder if they have to be global everywhere again;
18:22:29 [Morbus]
lemme try.
18:22:33 [pixel]
k
18:28:54 [Morbus]
huh. no, that didn't work.
18:30:37 [Morbus]
mmkay.
18:30:40 [Morbus]
the X box doesn't work.
18:30:43 [Morbus]
it removes the window, but not the process.
18:30:50 [Morbus]
the memory is still allocated.
18:30:53 [Morbus]
sigh.
18:31:09 [pixel]
eeew.
18:31:19 [Morbus]
yeah, i had like six running.
18:31:36 [pixel]
I have 5. hehehe
18:31:42 [Morbus]
hehehe
18:31:56 [pixel]
no wonder it was doing things a bit slower.
18:32:04 [Morbus]
i have no clue what this could be.
18:32:13 [Morbus]
to have some of it work, but not the rest.
18:32:23 [pixel]
I'm very stumped myself.
18:32:34 [pixel]
did you include a new Win32::GUI module in this version?
18:32:53 [Morbus]
no, same one i've been using before.
18:33:01 [Morbus]
its gotta be something with the modules.
18:33:09 [pixel]
weird.
18:33:10 [Morbus]
because namespaces are more private then in the other code.
18:33:45 [redmonk]
hey guys - have you tried running the code w/o the GUI?
18:33:59 [redmonk]
how's the speed then?
18:34:01 [Morbus]
yeah it runs fine on Linux.
18:34:07 [Morbus]
and OS X.
18:34:32 [redmonk]
were the speed diffs w/ and w/o xml::rss tested on those platforms?
18:34:41 [pixel]
the GUI responds much quicker in this version... I wonder if it has something to do with the non-handling of Clicks.
18:34:56 [redmonk]
(wondering if the prob was the GUI, not cml::rss)
18:34:59 [redmonk]
ugh
18:35:01 [redmonk]
xml::rss
18:35:04 [redmonk]
just a thought
18:35:30 [pixel]
morb replaced xml:rss with his own code, and it's blazingly fast now.
18:35:31 [Morbus]
redmonk: i doubt it. the gui is only the win32 gui. the "gui" for the web browser is different.
18:35:43 [redmonk]
ah
18:35:46 [redmonk]
just checking
18:35:55 [redmonk]
cool
18:35:57 [Morbus]
pixel: you said gui_listen was working?
18:36:22 [Morbus]
because we init the gui in AmphetaDesk.pm - I'm wondering if when we do gui_listen (also in Ampheta.pm) if its not passing the window object aorund.
18:37:12 [pixel]
yes. I put a gui_note call in gui_listen, andit was continually writing out to the gui window - so gui_listen is working. it's got to be something in win32::gui
18:38:09 [pixel]
I'm looking at DOEvents now.
18:39:51 [Morbus]
the documentation for win32 is woefully incomplete.
18:40:13 [pixel]
I've noticed.
18:40:15 [pixel]
uhm.
18:40:33 [pixel]
you're not including your own Win32::GUI.
18:40:49 [pixel]
it's using the one I have installed in perl.
18:41:07 [Morbus]
in gui_init, it calls Win32::GUI.
18:41:17 [Morbus]
OHh, right, in the lib/ I can't.
18:41:18 [Morbus]
it's C code.
18:41:27 [Morbus]
anything that's OS specific is wrapped into the .exe
18:41:29 [pixel]
hmm.
18:41:31 [bitsko]
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18:41:38 [Morbus]
so the XML::Parser expat, etc. is all in the .exe
18:41:42 [Morbus]
that's how it was in the old version as well.
18:41:45 [pixel]
gotcha.
18:41:54 [Morbus]
hey bitsko.
18:42:55 [bitsko]
hey
18:43:04 [redmonk]
yo 'sko
18:43:56 [pixel]
my Win32::GUI doesn't have a DoEvents in it. in fact, it's not C either.
18:44:30 [pixel]
I must have something different than you.
18:45:14 [bitsko]
* bitsko is getting excited to upgrade his main machine to MOSX10.1 and installing Fink, so the Linux box can be moved upstairs to be the Media Server
18:45:14 [pixel]
very weird.
18:52:03 [Morbus]
pixel: what version do you have? I know the perl thing hooks into some runtime calls of Win32.
18:52:05 [Morbus]
but not entirely how.
18:53:38 [bitsko]
hmm, does MOSX Perl have a free ObjC bridge yet?
18:54:06 [Morbus]
not sure.
18:55:14 [bitsko]
that would be yummy. writing Cocoa apps in Perl (or Py or Ruby, for that matter).
18:55:17 [pixel]
I have: Version: 0.0.558 (15 Jan 2001)
18:55:26 [pixel]
apparently the latest version.
18:56:32 [pixel]
I just loaded my old mychannels.opml (117 channels) file into the new ampheta, and I'm getting quite a few blank news headers (and no articles).
18:57:09 [pixel]
looks like the ones that it couldn't get data for are represented by blank lines, rather than them not being there.
18:57:26 [redmonk]
bitsko: there's a pyobjc at sourceforge
18:57:41 [redmonk]
there used to be a company that made "objective-everything"
18:58:02 [redmonk]
it had objective-perl, python, javascript (i think) and another couple
18:58:08 [bitsko]
yes, I'm familiar with Objective-Everything (and Joy)
18:58:12 [redmonk]
ah
18:58:27 [redmonk]
s OE still a viable product?
18:58:28 [bitsko]
not in the purchasing mode tho, kwim
18:58:39 [redmonk]
yep
18:58:54 [redmonk]
like i said - pyobjc on sourceforge
18:59:03 [bitsko]
dunno, I looked them up a while back and they didn't seem very lively. got kicked out by Java and AppleScript bridges, mostly
18:59:07 [redmonk]
i imagine it won't be too long before something happens with perl
18:59:19 [bitsko]
and less than stellar support from Apple in working with IB/PB
18:59:23 [redmonk]
yeah
18:59:30 [redmonk]
more-s the pity
18:59:59 [bitsko]
yes. AppleScript's not so bad, but Python would be "richer" for writing apps in. Java just sucks :-/
19:00:06 [redmonk]
hehh
19:00:08 [redmonk]
yeah
19:00:12 [redmonk]
obj-c r00lz
19:00:18 [redmonk]
hehe
19:02:05 [Morbus]
sigh.
19:02:09 [Morbus]
this is annoyng.
19:02:17 [Morbus]
this is pretty crucial to fix, you think? ;)
19:05:10 [pixel]
I think so =)
19:07:22 [Morbus]
i'm scanning mailing list archives.
19:08:36 [Morbus]
hey, there's a new Win32::GUI out.
19:08:59 [Morbus]
not that that should hel[p things.
19:09:08 [pixel]
heheh
19:09:43 [Morbus]
argh.
19:09:44 [Morbus]
no changelog
19:09:57 [pixel]
that's not very nice.
19:09:57 [redmonk]
ugh
19:10:01 [Morbus]
no, its not.
19:10:09 [pixel]
I couldn't find much at all in the way of documentation for it.
19:10:46 [Morbus]
oh, hey, there's a tutorial.
19:15:39 [Morbus]
* Morbus hopes for the best.
19:16:06 [Morbus]
nope. upgrading didn't work.
19:16:13 [pixel]
hmph.
19:25:09 [pixel]
about time for me to head out.
19:25:16 [pixel]
see everyone monday.
19:25:29 [pixel]
morb - I'll be off and on all weekend.
19:25:33 [Morbus]
mmHmm.
19:25:38 [Morbus]
i'm not gonna release the alpha like this.
19:25:38 [pixel]
hehe
19:25:44 [Morbus]
memory leaking badly.
19:25:47 [pixel]
I don't blame you.
19:25:57 [Morbus]
i do have *some* couth ;)
19:26:58 [Morbus]
i dont' understand why minimizing works.
19:27:01 [Morbus]
and menu clicking works.
19:27:03 [Morbus]
but nothing else.
19:27:07 [Morbus]
i ean, those are events too, right?
19:27:12 [pixel]
I can't find any reasoning for it either.
19:27:42 [pixel]
but I actually can't figure out why ANYTHING works, because there's no DoEvents function in my win32::gui.
19:27:53 [Morbus]
heh, heh.
19:28:13 [pixel]
there's some slight of hand at work here.
19:30:33 [justme]
justme (justme@i0274.vwa.wanadoo.nl) has joined #swhack
19:30:50 [pixel]
ok. out I go. bye all.
19:33:08 [pixel]
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19:48:19 [redmonk]
redmonk has changed the topic to: welcome to #amphetadesk-dev
19:48:39 [Morbus]
* Morbus grumbles
19:48:46 [redmonk]
heh
19:50:15 [redmonk]
* redmonk misses the days of swhack of yore, when aaronsw and sbp, morbus and iff, deltab and others roamed the irc-scape
19:50:31 [redmonk]
oh where oh where has my aaronsw gone?
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21:07:25 [Morbus]
whoo!
21:07:29 [Morbus]
solved my problems./
21:13:37 [redmonk]
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21:13:49 [redmonk]
yo
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23:53:09 [AaronSw`]
AaronSw` (~me@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
23:55:32 [AaronSw`]
hi
23:55:52 [AaronSw`]
AaronSw` has changed the topic to: ET, UT, FT, CT
23:56:01 [AaronSw`]
* AaronSw` pokes sbp
23:56:08 [AaronSw`]
ooh, doid!
23:56:15 [AaronSw`]
.seen sbp
23:56:16 [xena]
sbp seen joining #swhack ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 10 min(s) 35 sec(s) ago
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.seen sbp 2
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sbp seen leaving #swhack [ ] ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 10 min(s) 52 sec(s) ago
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.seen sbp 3
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sbp seen leaving #plex [ ] ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 10 min(s) 59 sec(s) ago
23:57:24 [AaronSw`]
i'm back home now
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