00:11:21 jillzilla (~jill@216-239-45-4.google.com) has joined #swhack 00:12:00 * jillzilla remembers to wish her mother a happy birthday. 00:12:04 * jillzilla is deeply relieved. 00:20:31 * rik pounces on jillium 00:20:31 * rik pounces on jillzilla 00:20:31 too 00:27:18 oierw (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 00:40:17 * sbp was flicking through the channels... 00:40:23 and I came across BBC Four 00:40:36 they were showing a Martin Carthy concert! 00:40:45 and he brought Swarb on 00:40:59 (who was looking very ill, and wasin a wheelchair) 00:41:14 but he played really well... they did Byker Hill together 00:41:49 but anyway, it just goes to show that flicking through the channels sometimes pays off 00:49:51 goog'r? 00:50:32 yeah. get it today 00:55:19 * oierw is lost 00:59:32 yo yo yo 00:59:38 aloha! 01:00:01 hey there 01:00:29 aloha! 01:00:45 I'm just logging on to send queued email 01:00:59 i handled 750 emails on the plane before i ran out of batts 01:01:19 * AaronSw-HI-US watches his 1009 actions synchronize 01:01:34 The cybercafe here rocks! they 01:01:37 have the new imacs!!! 01:01:43 first i've seen them anywhere 01:01:52 and wireless too 01:01:56 all provided by apple according to the sign 01:02:04 nice 01:02:22 unfortunately i can't seem to pick up the wireless... 01:02:40 oh, here we go... 01:02:56 named waikiki it seems 01:04:02 tansaku_xf, did i miss neurogrid call? 01:06:25 Hm, I think I just borked my email program. 01:06:50 heh 01:07:29 i had an http archiver success story on the plane 01:08:07 smtprelay 141.142www2002.netenterprise.net 01:08:16 .dns 141.142www2002.netenterprise.net 01:08:23 hm, no xena 01:08:34 smtprelay 66.180.142.141 01:09:30 xena is down during the move to xia, i figure 01:09:46 makes sense 01:09:56 well mom is probably worrying about me so i better be going 01:09:57 ttyl 01:11:03 c'ya 01:13:14 * jillzilla waves to AaronSw. 01:13:17 * jillzilla notices rik. 01:13:18 rik. 01:13:27 hiya, oierw. long time no see. 01:13:28 me0w! 01:13:33 * rik jumps up and down 01:13:36 * jillzilla pets sbp. 01:13:37 * sbp waves 01:13:45 puuuuuurrrrrrr 01:13:52 Oh, wait, got you confused with rik...ooooh! 01:13:56 no 01:14:02 * sbp smacks himself - this channel is *logged* 01:14:10 read the blog, and see the CatBot episode 01:14:13 * jillzilla giggles. 01:14:15 heh, heh 01:14:16 and about half an hour before it too 01:14:20 CatBot (~kitty@m509-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:15:19 * jillzilla just spent 45 minutes reading design docs in the massage chair. 01:15:34 * rik squeezes jill. 01:16:12 Heh. I think the massage chair would be annoying for a kittycat. The person said cat was sitting on would be constantly rolling up and down and being joggled by the chair. 01:16:12 * CatBot twitches ears 01:16:33 * rik smiles 01:16:43 hello jillium 01:18:14 * jillzilla squeals after getting email from an old coworker whom she would love to see. 01:18:33 * rik twists ears away from high-pitched girly squealing 01:18:43 * rik oils jill to stop squeaks. 01:18:44 * jillzilla remembers that rik has never actually met her. 01:21:38 * rik shrugs 01:22:10 well, I've never heard a deep-baritone squeal... 01:22:21 mezzo-soprano. 01:22:41 ooh! I just got it 01:23:07 for like about three quarters of an hour I've been trying to work out one of my old songs 01:23:13 and I think I've got most of the intro 01:23:15 one that you wrote? 01:23:38 yeah 01:23:49 heh 01:23:59 jill... 01:24:04 rik... 01:24:12 catch up with the channel. 01:24:13 * rik nods 01:24:18 find out why there's a CatBot here. 01:24:19 * CatBot twitches ears 01:24:24 heh 01:24:47 oh, bugger. My buffer doesn't include anything about that. 01:25:00 log uri? 01:25:06 uh, 01:25:25 http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 01:25:57 you'd think I'd have bookmarked that by now. Thanks, sbp. 01:25:57 heh 01:26:19 np 01:27:01 starts 20:39:04 01:28:21 Oh, I'm reading something earlier than that. sbp demoing. 01:28:31 oh, sorry, misread your timestamp. 01:28:31 'k. well.. 01:28:33 * rik shrugs 01:28:40 heh 01:28:49 sbp: it's very cute. 01:29:14 what, rik, or CatBot? 01:29:25 catbot. 01:29:34 * sbp works out 99-100% of the song, and is rather pleased with himself 01:29:35 both :) 01:29:43 heh. fair enough. 01:31:32 it copies me very very well :) 01:31:48 right. time for me to curl up in my basket 01:31:55 night, riklet. 01:32:04 c'ya, rik 01:32:05 nanight, miss zilla 01:32:10 night sbp. 01:32:40 .jumpmenow. 01:32:43 .jumpmenow 01:32:45 bah. 01:32:45 heh, heh 01:32:56 you're *so* lucky that Morbus isn't here 01:33:12 hee. 01:33:19 * jillzilla craves sugar. argh. 01:33:46 heh. you'll be seeing little sugar elves dancing around your desk soon 01:33:53 go and get some pixie sticks! 01:33:54 already...seeing... 01:34:02 ...arrrrghhhh..... 01:34:13 I think I'll go have dinner and see if this craving goes away or not. 01:34:39 * jillzilla wanders off. 01:39:43 * BenSw is back 01:40:19 * jillzilla waves to BenSw. 01:40:26 Hi 01:41:22 Ooooh, it's bridge night! 01:41:29 * jillzilla does the bridge night dance. 01:47:44 yes! 01:48:04 yes indeedy 01:48:42 rowr. food... 01:48:44 * jillzilla disappears. 01:49:13 note to Google employees: clear the way! Jill's on the prowl for food! 01:49:23 heh 01:49:23 end of note to Google employees 01:49:29 .help 01:49:30 Commands: [ meow, backflip, pester_for_treats, nap ] Use .help command for more help 01:49:38 .meow 01:49:38 * CatBot meows loudly 01:49:44 .backflip 01:49:44 * CatBot backflips and mews 01:49:51 .nap 01:49:51 * CatBot falls asleep 01:49:57 .pester_for_treats 01:50:10 * CatBot wakes 01:50:10 * CatBot pads over to and paws at the leg of BenSw, and motions towards the kittysnack box 01:50:28 .kittytreat 01:50:30 * CatBot crunches noisily 01:55:13 CatBot needs a proper catnap now 01:55:16 CatBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:57:16 Hmm... a gnat cap would be quite small 01:57:51 and you'd need really fine tweezers to put it on said gnat 01:58:19 and some sort of gnat mount and magnifying device 01:59:01 but gnat's have the right to be stylish, surely. I think that caps would suit them 01:59:12 perhaps people would like them more if they wore caps 01:59:46 s/gnat's/gnats/ 02:32:00 rillian (~giles@375dial2-port-238.dial.telus.net) has joined #swhack 02:36:48 aaronsw (~aaronsw@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 02:37:02 howdy 02:37:04 aloha? 02:37:08 aloha 02:37:17 aaronsw is now known as AaronSw-WWW2002 02:37:30 For some reason my connection to the dirc instance isn't working 02:42:51 that's the -HI-US nick? 02:43:01 yep 02:43:10 nice place for a conference 02:43:30 yeah, if only it wasn't so cloudy 02:44:19 rainy season? 02:45:40 xena (~xena@216.234.235.21) has joined #swhack 02:45:53 no rDNS yet? 02:46:06 nope 02:48:42 were does one get a standalone getopt_long implementation for use with systems that don't have it in libc? 02:49:41 ah, there's a copy in gengetopt from gnu.org 02:56:13 aha 02:56:25 AaronSw-WWW2002 has quit ("see AaronSw-HI-US") 03:08:19 deus_x- (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 03:09:28 deus_x- has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:11:59 deus_x- (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 03:16:43 sbp? 03:16:51 so far I've seen a Wiki Wiki shuttle and a Wiki Wiki bus 03:17:16 ah, I was going to ask if you had 03:18:09 Hm, dajobe's haveing fun: http://photos.dajobe.org/gallery/hawaii-2002 03:18:34 apparently Rohit is here 03:18:41 but he's listed as a student which is odd 03:18:48 EricP's title is "Sanitation Engineer" 03:25:14 deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:26:00 deus_x- is now known as deus_x 03:29:56 * sbp waves 03:29:58 cool, Wiki Wiki stuff! 03:30:28 listed as a student: he probably gets a discount 03:30:54 ah, perhaps 03:31:23 all the w3c folks are in AC meetings :/ 03:31:37 ugh. where are you? 03:32:15 i'm hanging out with afs and dajobe in the lobbythingy 03:32:26 afs? 03:32:33 * sbp waves to dajobe 03:32:41 Andy Seaborne 03:32:47 ah! 03:34:13 lots of japanese folk 03:35:23 Hi aaron 03:37:58 rillian has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:40:21 so, how's Hawaii? lots of rain? 03:40:43 hey BenSw 03:40:47 well, it's stopped raining 03:40:49 just overcastnow 03:41:11 heh: you go all that way, and it pisses it down. just bloomin' great, eh? 03:41:45 hm, dajobe and afs are off to look for dan and libby 03:41:57 not too shabby: http://photos.dajobe.org/gallery/hawaii-2002-waikiki/aab 03:42:06 wow, I guess everyone's there 03:42:11 yeah, wish it was like that today 03:42:19 yeah, i checked off all the people i knew on the list of attendees 03:42:21 quite a few 03:42:36 I'm hoping to meet Edd 03:43:23 what exactly are you going to be doing there? have you put an itinerary on the Web? 03:43:42 well, i'm just gonna hang about at the conference i guess 03:43:53 oh, AC meetings out, guess I should look for HU-MANS 03:44:03 heh, good luck 03:44:09 schmooze all humans 03:44:10 c'ya 03:45:10 heh, it's funny skimming through a big list of low-priority email and suddenly seeing your name 03:45:17 "argh! what did I miss this time?" 03:49:21 .time 03:49:22 2002/05/07 03:49:22.4828 Universal 03:55:57 sbp do you want to play a game of chess? 03:56:08 sure 03:56:16 with who? 03:57:14 with me 03:57:30 O.K. :-) 03:57:45 on yahoo I guess 03:57:55 * sbp loads up yahoo games 03:58:23 meet me in Amateurs' Arena 03:58:29 in the beginner section 03:59:23 * sbp navigates 03:59:35 oooh, delicious use of /me. 03:59:40 * jillzilla admires. 03:59:54 heh, heh. you could plop it on a plate and call it ice-cream 04:00:38 sbp whats your name? 04:00:49 on yahoo that is 04:01:13 heh, you'll recognize it when you see it :-) 04:01:19 * sbp loads the applet 04:01:24 what sbp? 04:01:34 ah there 04:01:57 is that you that just invited me? 04:02:01 yes 04:02:14 * AaronSw-HI-US watches Greg Fitzpatrick and Libby take a dose of Early Adopter Syndrome 04:02:24 * AaronSw-HI-US takes a photo 04:02:26 they're trying to bluetooth each other wiht little success 04:09:27 gotta run 04:09:32 bye 04:13:00 gotta go to bed 04:13:27 c'ya 04:15:32 BenSw is now known as BenSleep 05:49:43 Gotta run 06:27:04 s|a (~synack@210-86-60-201.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #swhack 06:27:07 hiya 07:34:25 * AaronSw-HI-US waves 07:34:27 went out to dinner with the gang 07:34:37 .tiem 07:34:39 .time 07:34:40 2002/05/07 07:34:40.3302 Universal 07:34:49 .time cst 07:34:50 May 7, 2002 2:34 am US/Central 07:35:01 come on now i see xena.. 07:35:19 hm, not a great time zone... 07:35:20 .time hst 07:35:21 error: Site Error occurred: KeyError 07:35:26 only 9PM here 07:35:29 well, 930 07:35:57 who was in the gang? 07:37:03 ooh: http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/ 07:37:34 gang: dajobe, markb, artb, greg fitzpatrick, libby, johann heljm 07:37:39 i've got photos... 07:38:39 Noen (~alle@ws-65-197.rogaland-f.kommune.no) has joined #swhack 07:38:52 * AaronSw-HI-US uploads 07:39:56 so what about this cc thing then, I gather you've been working on it for a while now ... 07:41:22 yep 07:41:27 photos being uploaded to http://www.aaronsw.com/photos/www2002/ 07:42:05 neat, fellow next to me is using some sort of touch pad to enter japanese characteres 07:42:10 it makes a cool whooshing noise 07:42:34 is it just me or does sherlock3 look like a watson clone? 07:42:38 great hawaii shirt action 07:43:07 re: japanese characters - a zaurus? 07:43:55 I was going to ask you if the cc people had convinced you that there would be people who make use of the cc concept, but only if you're not too busy 07:44:09 concept --> eventual software 07:44:11 i'm not busy 07:44:22 well, i'm a CC Person 07:44:32 have you convinced yourself :) 07:44:33 I believe there will be software using this, yes 07:44:58 I believe there will be software too :) 07:45:09 what I mean is will there be lots of people wanting to use it 07:45:13 Ah 07:45:40 Loki@infoAnarchy made a comment about just ripping off the meta-data license and using stuff anyway 07:46:04 Well people can do that with anything. 07:46:21 I mean I can see that some people would want to prove that they have a license for what they do, but I'm wondering how many people there are like that 07:46:24 The point of the license is to explicitly give people rights... I'm not sure why they'd throw those rights away 07:46:46 well, if rights and restrictions are one in the same no? 07:47:02 * tansaku_xf is having trouble maintaining grammatical consistency 07:47:07 well copyright is fully restrictive by default 07:47:18 if you tear off the license you get all the restrictions and none of the rights 07:47:42 yes, Lisa mentioned something about restriction by default, I wasn't aware of that 07:47:56 presumably that's some kind of US legal thing? 07:48:11 Yeah, in the US at least as soon as you affix a work in a tangable form then the owner must explicitly allow everything 07:48:29 with the exception of fair use and a few other things 07:48:33 anyway, I think Loki was missing the point, he was assuming that this was some system to try and prevent people copying mp3s etc 07:48:44 right, which it's decidedly not 07:48:53 otherwise i wouldn't get involved ;) 07:48:53 but what it really is is a system to try and allow people who want to demonstrate their legality to be able to do so 07:49:10 :) 07:49:34 which motivates my original question of do we think that a lot of people are keen to demonstrate their legality 07:49:35 that's a good way to put it 07:49:52 Well, the major benefit I see is the listing of trusted media 07:50:02 I mean its easy to come up with a few examples, e.g. film students etc. 07:50:03 so that folks who are worried about these things can go and get stuff that's safe to use 07:50:19 but i see your point 07:50:32 I guess I'm working both sides of the fence... 07:50:37 ah, so people who want to make sure they are abiding the law can do so? 07:50:41 Yep. 07:51:03 it's an interesting idea - it will be interesting to see who starts to use it 07:52:09 I'm just curious about where the demand for this is coming from - maybe Lessig is contacted by people saying "please help me demonstrate my legality" or maybe not :) 07:52:20 although maybe he is ... 07:53:18 how are things going with plesh anyhow - I was looking at the site the other day trying to find something about your routing methodology, is there more documentation, or did I miss something? 07:53:42 no there's unfortuantely not much work or docs :( 07:53:53 I plan to use CHord for routing 07:53:57 right 07:54:03 I remember now 07:54:13 * tansaku_xf 's brain is really starting to run down 07:54:23 heh 07:54:34 i'm hoping to drum up support at the conference here and in california 07:54:35 is Zooko implementing Chord in Python ... 07:54:47 or is that blanu? 07:54:59 somebody was doing some chord thing in python 07:55:01 nope, i am and icepick's helping out 07:55:06 i wrote PyChord 07:55:09 which uses HTTP 07:55:18 oh yeah? 07:55:20 icepick's porting it to EGTP which is the MN protocol 07:55:39 right, I think I was picking up on some of icepick's recent posts to mnet 07:55:57 so was it difficult to get chord running? 07:56:13 not really. it took a while to understand the protcol but after that it was pretty easy 07:56:23 but i'm not so good at networking so the code still needs some work 07:56:37 is it available os? is there a demo? 07:56:53 I'm still coming up to speed on chord myself ... 07:57:02 http://cvs.plesh.net/semplesh/chord/ 07:57:43 main.py and network.py ? 07:58:02 main.py is the chord algorithm 07:58:10 network.py is the HTTP binding 07:58:55 interesting 07:59:06 wanted to keep it clean 07:59:31 ah for the spare time to achieve python fluency 07:59:45 Honestly it's not difficult. 07:59:52 no I can see that 08:00:01 it might take me a week, but I don't have a week :( 08:00:15 I read "Learning Python" one day and was coding as soon as i put it down 08:00:28 Oh yeah, I was coding python after a couple of hours 08:00:54 but even a weeks worth of python knowledge couldn't compare with my speed in Java 08:01:01 Hm. 08:01:07 I've been programming if for 4 years, I know the libraries back to front 08:01:14 if --> it 08:01:21 ah yeah the libraries are more difficult 08:01:31 well, there's always jython ;) 08:01:40 jython is a possibility :) 08:01:58 also some of my main work is on cell phones 08:02:00 all java 08:02:05 no python for cell phones yet 08:02:17 silly cellphones ;/ 08:02:22 there's python for palm at least 08:02:35 so anyway, plesh will distribute triples using chord? 08:02:42 yep 08:03:06 I mean chord supports searching for ids right, so how will I find all triples the object of which is "cheese"? 08:03:35 well we use the traditional rdf->hastable encoding 08:03:51 which is to make a bunch of hashtables 08:04:03 so that you look up "cheese" in the obnject hashtabkle 08:04:37 ok, so what about when I want to find all the triples with objects that contain the partial string "ee"? 08:05:04 eh, you don't want to do that 08:05:09 no? 08:05:18 you'll get zillions of matches 08:05:29 i don't know of any RDF APIs even non-distributed that do that 08:05:39 tristero does that 08:05:51 well, it's an option, right? 08:06:11 not sure 08:06:19 I mean it's part of the interface 08:06:35 none of the interface has been declared optional or mandatory either way really 08:06:46 hm, he implied it was optional to me 08:07:00 well the interface is in flux 08:07:13 yeah 08:07:21 well, i better be grabbing some sleep... 08:07:24 nice talking to you 08:07:28 I'm not sure that it's a crucial operation either way 08:07:31 sleep well 08:07:39 thanks for bringing me up to speed on plesh 08:07:43 no prob 08:09:25 the last question on my mind is this rdf->hashtable mapping over chord means that one node ends up storing all the triples with object "cheese" ... 08:09:29 ? 08:09:44 * tansaku_xf imagines a cheese node 08:09:53 yeah, that's a problem to work out 08:10:04 obviously this is not a long-term solution 08:10:08