00:00:50 ASCII *really* needs more brackety things 00:01:57 three just isn't enough. nowhere near enough. We need at least 7 00:02:51 heh, not 00:03:25 ooh, four. well, that's still not seven 00:04:04 say, Aaron, how easy is it for you to type a Ł sign? 00:04:06 six: ({[<"' 00:04:19 i don't know. never done it. 00:04:25 let me look it up 00:04:37 " is not a brackety thing. by that logic, . is a brackety thing too. any character is a brackety thing 00:04:53 how do you define brackety thing, then? 00:04:55 or any sequence 00:05:06 'begin' and 'end' for example 00:05:15 something that has an opening thingy, and a (different) complementary closing thingy 00:05:49 (where each thing is a single character... the "deltab" clause) 00:06:24 Unicode has a few more... 00:06:35 ah. typing Ł is easy. Option-3 00:07:01 there's Ť 00:07:09 and rquot, lquot 00:07:16 but i think you said ascii 00:07:32 which isn't going to change, so it's sort of stupid to ask for more 00:07:52 oh, and Đ 00:08:53 oh, and Ą, ż 00:09:24 oohm ž 00:09:55 ooh, Euro sign: 00:09:59 oops 00:10:17 sbp, one more in ASCII: / and \ 00:10:54 (singing) "he's come to cuuuut you down" 00:10:58 those are paired, but they're not normally brackets 00:11:20 I suppose. 00:11:31 why do you want so many, sbp? 00:11:46 where are they used as brackets? I can only think of __/ tabs \__ 00:12:07 ooh, that's clever. 00:12:19 well, some people use them for /emphasis\ 00:12:52 I've seen /this/ and occasionally \this\, but I don't recall /this\ 00:13:13 ok, i admit i made that up. 00:13:41 oh, there's ` and ' 00:13:55 that's a real one 00:14:05 those aren't paired 00:14:09 sure they are 00:14:10 This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network. These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information. To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'. On most clients: '/mode -w'. Thanks. 00:14:23 some people use `` and '' tho. 00:14:24 no, people just faked smart quotes with them 00:14:30 so? 00:14:44 so: it sucks on an unprecedented level 00:15:06 why do you want these brackety things anyway? 00:15:20 I just love brackety things. they're our friends! 00:15:31 why single chars only? 00:15:47 double chars. are too verbose! 00:16:55 hmph 00:26:00 xoot has left #swhack 00:28:43 "As for OS X costing money, I was more than happy to wait on a cold rainy morning to get my copy. The very thought that BSD and my beloved Perl would be installed by default... god... talk about orgasms." 00:28:44 heh,. 00:31:27 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 00:32:15 [Global Notice] Hi all. Please congratulate Bdale Garbee, the newly-elected Debian Project Leader. OPN extends its best wishes! :) 00:48:26 Seth has quit () 01:29:46 Ooh, bdale own! 01:30:29 err won 01:57:15 tansaku has quit () 02:08:51 Gotta run 02:23:17 hmph. google patent: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020042791'.PGNR.&OS=DN/20020042791&RS=DN/20020042791 02:28:56 tansaku (~sam@61.215.202.146) has joined #swhack 03:01:04 AaronSw has changed the topic to: we've got a passion, for sharing knowledge 03:01:18 * AaronSw updates http://notabug.com/ if you're courious about the reference 03:03:22 with free MP3 03:16:36 GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 03:21:54 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:24:47 RoyF: "If I had 2 cents for every time someone offerred me their $0.02, writing IETF standards would be downright profitable." 03:25:15 * AaronSw notes to give Roy a dollar or two 03:33:55 AaronSw: What is this poking at my version? 03:34:06 i was trying to tell you that aminorex is around. 03:34:12 yaaay! 03:34:34 :-) 04:19:52 oierw` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:24:23 kensaku (~sam@irvine.layer8technologies.com) has joined #swhack 04:29:19 oierw|sleep (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 04:42:43 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:49:15 wmf (~wesley@valentine.felter.org) has joined #swhack 04:50:06 swhack! don't try to hide, I know somebody is in here 04:50:17 :) 04:50:27 wmf! 04:50:56 i was reading the google patents today. they're pretty crazy 04:51:05 * jillzilla hasn't read them. 04:51:09 "I patent everything!" 04:51:15 * jillzilla buries her head in the sand. 04:51:49 They seem to claim mappings. Then they claim mappings applied to search terms->URLs, phone numbers->URLs, etc. 04:53:59 I shouldn't stay at work so late; it leaves to little time for slacking 04:55:00 opencyc released! 04:55:14 cool! 04:55:24 * jillzilla would check it out, but she's working too late. 05:11:41 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 05:20:57 G'nite 05:23:10 night. 05:54:33 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 06:06:31 kensaku has quit () 06:09:09 oierw|sleep has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:09:45 oierw|sleep (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 07:03:32 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 07:35:13 kensaku (~sam@h131-156.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 07:35:32 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:46:55 oierw|sleep has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:46:57 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 08:54:17 jillzilla has quit (Remote closed the connection) 08:57:22 jillium has quit (Remote closed the connection) 09:32:47 kensaku has quit () 12:11:21 oierw` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:13:53 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 12:16:44 oierw` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:16:53 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 12:27:42 oierw` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:32:35 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 12:41:21 oierw` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:42:20 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 12:48:36 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 13:00:01 whee! I'm right at the top [insert mega-big smiley here] 13:01:16 heh: the number of people that subscribe to swi-dev even though there's been no conversation there for months... 13:02:58 ooh, a new IRI draft: http://www.w3.org/International/2002/draft-w3c-i18n-iri-00.txt 13:04:20 Pff, URIs should have been binary numbers 13:04:43 Morbus could have had 1010011010 13:05:05 Aaron could have had 1110111110101111001110110 13:06:59 Hmm... the XPointer for HTML thread is still going strong 13:28:35 I are I. 13:29:20 imagine date-based binary uris... 13:29:21 eeek 13:30:23 bwahahah 13:30:25 [[[ 13:30:25 3154903 21 /var/spool/mail/matt 13:30:25 2484525 686 /var/spool/mail/morbus 13:30:25 ]]] 13:30:34 size / emails recvd / location. 13:30:40 i hate attachments. 13:30:47 who's matt? 13:30:52 * Morbus shrugs. 13:32:25 "Exchanging links will help bring in more business for both your web site and my client's. [...] Our client carries a vast up-to-date selection of whirlpool bath tubs, faucets, sinks, lavs, steamers and just about anything you can think of for the bath and kitchen." 13:32:37 Yeah, I really see how we're related there. 13:33:13 i get that thing every so often too. 13:33:25 i got it from some gaming mojo for gamegrene.com 13:33:37 i just tell people "pff. have you checked google you moron? i don't need your petty traffic" 13:33:42 literally :) 13:34:58 .google games 13:34:59 games: http://netcenter.ea.com/home/home.jsp 13:35:46 actually, for gamegrene, the traffic comes from my finite searching. 13:35:54 but i rarely ever do links pages. i don't like them. 13:36:14 if they're not contextual, why the hell would i want people to leave my site? 13:46:20 i'm sort of tempted to install apache2. i wonder how backwards-compatible it is 13:46:48 heh: "APACHE - Google does that. www.google.com/appliance Put Google on your corporate intranet." 13:46:51 riiight, google 13:47:03 i know it installs fine on os x, but there have been reports of php not working. 13:47:08 i haven't looked at a config file myself. 13:48:09 # i don't know. it never crossed my mind that they wouldn.t 13:48:28 [OLM] 13:49:23 if you do it, let me know. 13:49:35 k 13:49:38 i've got too much stuff running on the old 1.3 tha I don't want to move forward just yet. 14:01:14 heh: "I wonder if there are Georgia Tech admin moonlighting for the RIAA?" 14:18:55 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-204.biz.rr.com) has joined #swhack 14:24:07 * AaronSw updates http://notabug.com/eastwest 14:24:31 AaronSw has changed the topic to: we've got a passion (got a passion, got a passion), for sharing knowledge (sharing knowledge, sharing knowledge) 14:24:39 * AaronSw sings: 14:24:48 woobodeewoop tah bah bah tah bah bah 14:24:55 woobodeewoop tah bah bah tah bah bo 14:25:02 woobodeewoop tah bah bah tah bah bah 14:25:04 woobodeewoop tah bah bah tah bah bo 14:26:02 * Morbus poses like a beatnik 14:29:44 pixel (~pixel@ns.bhsi.com) has joined #swhack 14:30:18 hello there 14:30:27 hello. 14:30:29 * sbp waves 14:30:40 * pixel waves right back. 14:30:51 g'morning sbp 14:30:55 've been trying to get in here for weeks. 14:30:59 oh? 14:31:13 what's stopped you? 14:31:19 firewall. 14:31:28 ah. 14:31:36 holy crap! 14:31:40 WOOHOO! 14:31:41 its pixel! 14:31:42 hehe 14:31:47 pixel is the guy who's been helping out with ampheta. 14:31:50 aha 14:31:58 yay! pixel's here. kickass. 14:32:03 he's been reading the logs for a while now ;) 14:32:15 I feel like I already know you all =) 14:32:35 you have the advantage of us, then ;) 14:32:46 AaronSw, he's from perceive.net. 14:32:57 I AM perceive.net hwhwhwh 14:33:01 (hehe) 14:33:07 i was trying to visit when my browser froze 14:33:21 chimera? 14:33:31 no, IE this time 14:33:35 ah. 14:33:37 did you get the updates? ;) 14:33:40 what version? 14:33:47 afk for about 20m. 14:33:48 updates? 14:33:57 5.103 or something 14:34:02 yeah, check swupdate. there's a 4meg secuirty update. 14:34:08 oh, got that 14:34:30 gotta run: school 14:34:54 seeays. 14:35:07 school is quite a novel concept. 14:35:09 ah, so this is the legendary pixie 14:35:10 pixel: now you need to learn how to type ;) 14:35:11 er... pixel 14:35:21 I'm a very sloppy typer. 14:35:34 sbp: i have seen him do little dances to his own private litany. so pixie seems fitting. 14:36:03 * pixel dances around to his own private litany. 14:36:15 see! see! 14:36:18 ugh, IE froze again on perceive.net 14:36:22 * Morbus points 14:36:24 * AaronSw is really gone now 14:36:24 marvellous. Well, I like him better than xoot already 14:36:35 heh. oh man. he's loads better than xoot. 14:36:40 not sure if he's as smart as neo though. 14:36:44 * Morbus chuckles. 14:36:47 heh, heh 14:36:52 * sbp ^5's Morb 14:36:55 heheh. 14:37:00 (he's read that log, btw) 14:37:15 it should be compulsory 14:37:18 I've tried perceive.net on MANY browsers. find the version you're using, and I'll fix the problem. 14:37:19 afk 14:37:31 pixel: ie 5.1 on os x. 14:37:39 how can anybody be afk if they're typing "afk"? 14:38:16 ahh. mac is the only thing I haven't tested on, and unfortunately, can't. 14:38:25 cool: http://www.perceive.net/photos/default.asp?photo=1272 14:38:47 hehe. Pottery barn just paid me to sue that one. 14:38:51 sue=use 14:39:32 I'm going to use the crap out of you! 14:42:16 heheh 14:42:31 yes, they paid me to sue a photograph. I expect to get millions. 14:43:03 it was an open and shutter case. 14:43:05 * Morbus chuckles. 14:44:33 * pixel watches out for the corn. 14:51:32 ok. so what does everyone do? I'm a "Senior Web Application Designer" for a healthcare company, and do freelance work as Perceive Designs. 15:10:02 deus_x has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:16:16 i'm a ... oh, wait. nevermind. 15:17:02 Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 15:17:03 gah. stupid rpm. 15:17:06 hey, mmkay. 15:17:14 i had the original SuSE MySQL rpm installed, right? 15:17:22 then, I installed an RPM patch update for the MySQL package. 15:17:38 now, I can't remove the MySQL rpm because rpm complains that it refers to multiple packages. anyone seen this before? 15:19:42 nope. 15:20:11 ah... 15:20:25 i need to pass "--allmatches" 15:20:29 worked fine after that. 15:20:33 thanks, google. 15:20:36 that's good to know. 15:20:44 .google says thank you back 15:20:45 says thank you back: http://www.parenthelpusa.org/letter.html 15:21:03 that's too cool. 15:21:06 heh, heh. 15:21:12 we have many fine bots :) 15:21:14 quick too. 15:23:34 .google ISO date 15:23:35 ISO date: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html 15:23:49 mmmm. 15:37:38 what is the bot/human ratio? 15:38:18 5:10 15:38:22 in favor of humans 16:03:35 tansaku (~sam@h134-100.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:05:13 only four more chapters in FAIF. 16:05:14 whee. 16:23:53 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 16:24:00 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 16:53:09 hm, perceive.net works in chim, but doesn't line up right 16:54:49 .time 16:54:49 2002/04/17 16:54:49.454 Universal 16:55:09 pixel, i'm a 'Meddling Kid' or 'Outer Child'. your choice 16:55:38 hehe 16:55:48 I don't have a Mac that I'm able to test on. 16:56:30 it looks excellent in IE, and Netscape 6. looks good in IE 5, and 5.5 looks acceptable in netscape 4.x, and it might look like shit in everything else. 16:57:03 I have access to any PC-based browser, but not mac. 16:57:28 Said the Outer Child to the dot, "i'm a 'Meddling Kid' or 'Outer Child'. your choice" 16:57:38 Hm, well it's the first website i've found that actually crashes IE 16:57:46 Yeah! 16:58:16 wonder why. 16:58:29 oh, your doctype is screwy 16:58:46 hmm. 16:59:08 Gotta run 16:59:09 " 16:59:09 Fatal Error: unrecognized {{DOCTYPE}}; unable to check document 16:59:09 " 16:59:22 I wonder why. its a very normal doctype. 16:59:40 not really. you have an xml prolog on top, which you should remove 16:59:46 16:59:48 and then you have it tabbed over pretty far, and with no line break 17:00:24 whitespace should be ignored by HTML parsers. 17:00:27 and solidgrey (in your CSS) isn't an official color 17:00:43 see http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http://perceive.net/ 17:01:11 try removing the line at the top... 17:07:52 ok. it's being output as html, rather than xml, and the css is fixed. try that. 17:08:20 hmm. it's still confused about the doctype. 17:09:24 i still see "" at the top of the page 17:10:31 GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:11:31 you shouldn't now. the server caches pages in memory. it's been rebuilt now. 17:11:53 of course, the parser isn't closing all the tags now that it's been output as html, so it's nto validating as XHTML. 17:11:55 hehe 17:12:26 Seth has quit () 17:13:24 I think the doctype was probably the problem. the xml prolog should be fine in there, so I'm going to have it output as XML to get the tags to close properly. 17:17:44 ah, getting better. 17:18:27 ok. validates as XHTML Transitional and the CSS validates now. 17:18:37 cool... let me try again 17:20:42 still crash? 17:20:53 odd. it works until I turn on CSS. 17:21:15 hmm. 17:21:41 i'll email the browser makers about it. 17:22:13 there's nothing odd in the CSS. there are two (at least) stylesheets per page. 17:26:46 it wouldn't validate, anyway 17:26:46 no xmlns attribute, for a start 17:27:03 wouldn't validate as what? 17:27:20 odd, you're right. 17:27:34 but the validator still lets it thru 17:28:24 BTW, mega-lol at http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6368227'.WKU.&OS=PN/6368227&RS=PN/6368227 17:28:52 yeah, the handcuffs one is good too 17:29:19 ah, it might let it through because xmlns is a fixed ATTR 17:30:08 this sounds like spamassassin: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992141 17:31:02 I fixed the uspto url issue. 17:31:29 should I add the xmlns namespace? 17:31:44 no, that's not the problem 17:31:59 what's the problem? 17:32:22 it's something with the CSS. i emailed the IE Team, they'll figure it out, i'm sure. 17:32:29 cool. 17:32:47 yeah Aaron, just what *is* your problem, eh? :-) 17:32:56 hehe 17:33:15 can't you isolate it by copying the page with varying amounts of stylesheets? 17:33:39 yes, but i am not that bored 17:33:40 I'm sure, but that's a damn pain, eh? 17:33:54 brb 17:35:40 * sbp does it for you 17:37:20 try the HTML files under http://infomesh.net/2002/csstests/ 17:37:53 argh, actually, hang on a sec... 17:38:56 O.K., try now 17:39:08 hehe 17:40:01 caterpillar 17:40:43 try just the background: url("/images/layout/caterpillar/caterpillar.jpg") no-repeat rgb(210,206,198) top left; 17:40:43 } line 17:41:12 O.K., refresh the dir 17:41:28 no crash 17:41:36 try adding and empty one 17:41:42 wonder if it's because of the relative url. 17:41:57 nevermind. 17:42:04 refresh mc1 17:42:05 like "A:hover { 17:42:06 }" 17:42:23 no crash 17:42:49 O.K., I've added the empty ones (in mc1) 17:43:02 nope, no crash 17:43:33 ugh. O.K., I've added the top half 17:43:55 crash 17:44:50 try again 17:45:04 no crash 17:45:18 aha, I may have it 17:45:49 refresh; it should crash 17:46:00 no crash 17:46:05 really?! 17:46:08 i think it was that 1.5/4 thing 17:46:23 on mc1? yeah, really 17:46:50 the font: 11px/1.5? 17:47:12 yeah 17:47:20 but it didn't crash when I had just body and something else 17:47:33 I thought it was the float stuff, because it crashed when I put that back in 17:47:48 but when isolated, it didn't crash, so perhaps it's that in conjunction with something else 17:48:09 can you try now? 17:48:16 no crash 17:49:17 O.K., if this one doesn't crash, then I give in 17:49:25 oh, hang on 17:49:41 it crashed 17:49:45 i told you 17:50:03 er... this is new, though 17:50:24 new what? 17:50:31 CSS 17:50:39 it still crashes 17:50:48 try taking out everything cept the 11px/1.5 17:50:54 what does that mean, anyway? 17:51:24 the second value sets the line height. 17:51:33 it's the font thing with the floats 17:51:53 plus a vertical align and a clear fo rgood measure 17:52:00 just try it without for a sec 17:53:30 without what 17:53:32 ? 17:53:34 * sbp apologizes - got cut off 17:53:40 O.K., now it's just the font thing with the two floats 17:53:55 crash 17:54:03 altho i do see some text this time 17:54:50 Hmm... now it's the same with but with double quotes instead of single 17:55:04 crash 17:55:22 just try it with the font: line, please 17:55:38 no crash 17:55:50 aha: I got rid of the /1.5 17:55:54 no crash again 17:55:59 now I've put just the font line up 17:56:05 but with the /1.5 reinstated 17:56:08 as i said: no crash again 17:56:30 interesting. so it must be the /1.5 with the floats 17:57:26 how about this: it's minimal 17:57:47 crash 17:57:57