00:00:00 things get less attention when released on a weekend :-) 00:01:02 maybe you could run an NDAed beta test 00:01:29 ? 00:01:41 just to get out all the bugs 00:02:12 .acronym NDA 00:02:13 NDA: New Drug Application (to the FDA), Non-Disclosure Agreement, National Dance Association, National Day of Action, National Defence Academy (military training school in India), National Defense Academy, National Defense Act (Canada), National Defense Area, National Democratic Alliance (group of political parties in India), National Diploma of Agriculture (UK), National Distribution Authority, 00:02:13 Natural Disaster Assistance, Network Design Activity, New Dimensional Applications (SAP), Night Duty Allowance (on overtime forms), Nissan Design America (La Jolla, CA), Non-Data-Aided, Non-Destructive Analysis, Non-Destructive Assay 00:02:23 Non-Disclosure-Agreement 00:02:29 that's what I thought you meant 00:02:38 I still don't know what you mean :-) 00:03:08 get a bunch of betatesters, make them sign a document agreeing they won't talk about the product except in glowing vague terms, and then fix all the bugs they find 00:03:14 heh, heh 00:03:32 then release the NDA so that they all say the best thing about your product and link to those quotes from your website. file a press release or two 00:03:34 you know, the usual 00:03:46 yep, the usual routine 00:04:12 your point about going crazy for coverage notwithstanding, I'm waiting till Monday :-) 00:04:46 it'll give me a chance to test it... I'm sure that there'll be a weird little bug in there somewhere 00:05:02 heh, i love this photo: http://www.aaronsw.com/photos/school/IMG_0949.JPG/view 00:05:08 well, not the photo but the thing it's of 00:05:58 ooh, that's quite brilliant 00:06:05 I wonder who wrote it. 00:06:16 shame about the missing/hidden l 00:06:23 the nearby tiles say something like BUCK, but i can't really see it. 00:06:28 the l is there, just look harder 00:06:37 are you sure it's a B? 00:06:47 not entirely ;) 00:06:53 but it seems pretty likely 00:07:21 the problem is that they hated it so much, they made the letters too big 00:07:26 it's the margin-problem 00:07:45 but they'll be taught what to do. Our valiant educational system will step in and show them the way! 00:07:56 and demoralize and deeducate them at the same time... 00:08:03 but people must be taught to write neatly! 00:08:18 :-) 00:08:20 and it's worth breaking people's spirits for neat writing 00:08:34 most definitely 00:08:37 * sbp has flashbacks to handwriting classes 00:08:42 ugh 00:08:52 * sbp had awful handwriting; still does 00:09:00 probably not as bad as mine 00:09:31 it's bizzare. we'd have to write, and if the characters were slightly malformed, they'd say that you've done bad, and give you a poor mark. and make you write some more 00:10:10 the more I think about it, the sadder the whole thing seems 00:11:57 My 3rd grade teacher was very laissez-faire about the whole thing, and as a result I never learned (is the standard authority line) 00:13:03 Hmm... interesting. You get the odd pocket of pseudo-sanity 00:14:27 we had these little books, which had one example which you were supposed to trace once, and then attempt to copy about 20 times 00:14:35 heh 00:14:37 (this was cursive) 00:14:45 the girls loved it, so they'd get way ahead in their books 00:14:48 i was writing in eighth-inch block letters in thirds grade 00:14:49 but the boys never did any of it 00:14:57 part of my architectural heritage i guess 00:15:18 heh, I'm not sure who had the wackier thread there 00:15:26 danbri smells 00:16:27 well, i'm off boys. cya round, ahve fun, be safe, all that rot 00:16:56 heh, c'ya 00:17:05 redmonk has quit ("cya") 00:17:07 ta 00:17:20 well, it's just us left standing again 00:17:28 * jillzilla appears and reads scrollback. 00:17:32 not that IRC has ... argh! 00:17:36 oh well, so much for that 00:17:38 where'd she come from? 00:17:44 Argh! 00:17:46 * jillzilla runs away. 00:17:51 heh heh 00:17:57 * sbp is reminded of the Lisa/Jasper thing 00:18:09 what's that? 00:18:26 oh, i thought that said lisp heh 00:18:34 Pff 00:19:50 Wow, I've 2 hours of MP3 00:20:02 making for 3GB 00:20:09 not too shabby 00:20:24 and i'm not really into this sort of thing 00:20:48 shyeeeaaaah, right! 00:21:29 i was listening to launch.yahoo.com the other day. it's pretty cool. just like ol' imagine radio 00:21:46 BenSw (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:21:52 hey Ben 00:21:56 hi 00:23:37 argh, @use is taking precedence over @keyword. Dunno why, even 00:24:24 oops, got it 00:24:42 * sbp adds three spaces, and... done! 00:25:02 Hmm... I don't know what to do about making new keywords compatible 00:25:15 for example: @keyword x, y, z . x y z . 00:25:34 what on earth am I supposed to convert that into? I can't predict the future 00:27:30 perhaps I should just leave it in, i.e. convert it to { x y z . } 00:27:45 after all, if I can't make it backwards compatible, there's no use pretending 00:28:05 GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:29:20 c'ya all [EOW] 00:29:25 c'ya 00:29:28 bye 00:29:45 GabeW has quit (Client Quit) 00:29:56 * BenSw tries to get Simpsons Studio to work 00:32:58 GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:33:08 heh, WTF?!:- 00:33:09 [[[ 00:33:09 $ u n3splunge -s '@keyword x, y . @prefix default <#> . @use x, p . @prefix funge: . @use p, q <#> . x y z; p q .' 00:33:10 @prefix defaul: <#> . 00:33:10 x y <#z>; 00:33:10 defaul:p defaul:q . 00:33:11 ]]] 00:33:42 actually, that is consistent 00:33:54 but I dunno where "defaul:" came from 00:36:49 aha:- 00:36:50 [[[ 00:36:50 $ u n3splunge -s '@keyword x, y . @prefix default <#> . @use x, p . @prefix funge: . @use p, q <#> . x y z; p q .' 00:36:50 @prefix : <#> . 00:36:50 x y <#z>; 00:36:50 :p :q . 00:36:52 ]]] 00:37:07 I was testing for the prefix "default" as a special case... 00:37:19 but I had copied a bit of code that chops the ":" from the end 00:37:29 so it was checking for defaul instead of default 00:38:22 Hmm... should I turn URI-refs into QNames where possible? 00:38:37 actually, it should do that... 00:38:57 Hmm... perhaps not 00:40:54 * sbp decides not to add it 00:42:15 argh, actually, it does have it to an extent 00:42:20 [[[ 00:42:20 $ u n3splunge -s '@keyword x, y . @prefix default . @use x, p . @prefix : <#> . @use p, q <#> . x y :z; p q .' 00:42:20 @prefix : <#> . 00:42:20 x y :z; 00:42:20 :p :q . 00:42:21 ]]] 00:43:03 since @use keywords are stored as QNames 00:43:35 then, when reassembling the keywords, I can look up the URI base namespace part 00:43:45 since I turn the prefix mappings inside out 00:45:08 xoot (~ACUser@7.sanjose-03-04rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack 00:45:33 hello 00:46:10 anyone alive? 00:46:44 .acronym xoot 00:46:45 xoot: 00:47:13 .acronym swhack 00:47:13 swhack: 00:47:49 .acronym XENA 00:47:49 XENA: 00:47:50 it's Semantic Web or SWartz or something 00:48:01 Semantic Web hack 00:48:10 heh 00:48:12 thought so 00:48:23 ever heard of AquaChat? 00:48:56 heh 00:49:06 Hmm... I still think that @keyword is a bit suspect - importing from a default N3 space 00:49:27 yeah 00:51:02 i'm trying to get developer perms for aquachat 00:51:14 they have this ugly icon.... I wanna fix it 00:52:01 Hmm... I resolve @use keywords to QNames, but not @prefix default? That's a bit silly... 00:52:04 * sbp goes to fix it 00:52:59 heh... when you try to do a /me, all that appears is: 00:53:15 ACTION goes to fix it 00:56:31 hooray:- 00:56:31 [[[ 00:56:32 $ u n3splunge -s '@keyword x, y . @prefix default . @use x, p . @prefix : <#> . @prefix default <#> . @use p, q <#> . @keyword q . x y :z; p q; r x .' 00:56:32 @prefix : <#> . 00:56:32 x y :z; 00:56:32 :p q; 00:56:34 :r x . 00:56:36 ]]] 01:03:20 * sbp sorts out a literal handling bug 01:04:11 let's try some real world data! 01:05:06 cool:- 01:05:07 [[[ 01:05:07 $ u n3splunge -si=http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/doc.n3 ':x :y :z . s:label r:type r:Property' 01:05:08 @prefix : . 01:05:08 @prefix r: . 01:05:08 @prefix s: . 01:05:09 :x :y :z . 01:05:11 s:label r:type r:Property . 01:05:13 ]]] 01:07:32 cool, in the normal mode it makes for quite a good pretty-printer 01:11:03 Hmm... reducing prefix mapping where possible would be nice, but it makes for a lot of extra hacky code 01:17:06 xoot has quit ("Aquachat quitting") 01:20:48 * sbp adds some mild validation capabilities 01:27:43 * sbp searches for other N3 extensions 01:34:25 Nothing that I want to implement 01:34:43 although x = math:sum$(:x :y :z) . is quite cool 01:34:53 from http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/N3Alternatives 01:38:15 * sbp wonders if @forsome was a kinda shorthand for @keyword forsome . 01:38:17 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 01:56:46 * BenSw is back from dinner 02:10:30 Gotta run 02:28:10 BenSw has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:46:38 Good morning, everyone. We're doing a little bit of European rehubbing right now while the majority of Europeans slumber peacefully in their beds. Please pardon any interruption in service, and this should only take a moment. Thank you for using the Open Projects Network. 04:51:02 Alright, everyone. We're finished. Thank you again for your patience. We hope everyone has a great day today, and as always appreciate your using of the Open Projects Network. 04:52:04 You're listening to the premier wallops station on the Open Projects Network, WOPN! We broadcast the latest non-critical network announcements, interesting facts, and at times make lame attempts at humor. If you'd prefer not to receive our broadcast, simply /mode YourNick -w to change the station. Thank you! 06:27:04 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 09:04:13 Seth (~seth@12-230-243-179.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 09:09:07 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 09:09:19 oierw` has quit (Remote closed the connection) 10:49:08 oierw` (~mathew@pcp994425pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 10:49:25 oierw` has quit (Remote closed the connection) 12:12:54 * sbp manages to speed up n3s a little bit 12:47:51 BenSw (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 13:04:54 Guest49856 (df@203.106.195.58) has joined #swhack 13:05:00 sw - > short wave? 13:06:41 semantic web 13:07:23 o 13:10:57 Guest49856 has quit () 13:16:35 * sbp plays Bron-Y-Aur Stomp 13:23:58 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #swhack 13:27:03 rabataf (~ino@pD90559FD.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack 13:27:11 hey davb, rabataf 13:27:19 hi 13:27:51 oh, i thought sbp was a robot 13:28:05 then why did you reply? 13:28:12 * sbp plays all of LZIII 13:28:15 politeness? 13:28:18 :-) 13:29:40 i'd like to know this: what is swhack (?) compared to a wiki? 13:30:34 swhack is an IRC channel, and therefore not very comparable to a Wiki 13:30:36 unless you're talking about the Weblog 13:30:39 in which case, it's a bit more comparable to a Wiki - it lets us post items to it, but it doesn't let everyone edit it at will 13:30:56 Hmm... I guess we do abuse our bots a little in here, but then they cause us to. xena's always tacking those damn ?e=933 things on the end of URIs 13:31:23 that's what's left of google's click tracking 13:31:32 swhack stands for "Semantic Web hack dishwasher", BTW. The "d" got chopped off 13:31:42 right: tav's hack didn't get rid of it 13:32:13 i got here by http://www.drop.org/node.php?id=839 13:32:35 i know my wiki (meatball type), but how did i get here?? 13:32:52 .http://www.drop.org/node.php?id=839 13:32:58 i need the overview. 13:33:05 that URI seems to be down 13:33:19 what do you mean? 13:33:23 well, the thing that it identifes, I mean 13:33:41 I mean: it's buggered. Naffed. Borked 13:33:51 the google web api? 13:33:56 as xena should shortly report... 13:34:01 the drop.org URI 13:34:27 oh... 13:34:51 i gave it to [e]links, and it found sth. 13:35:34 er... come again? 13:35:48 elinks, the browser (text only). 13:35:54 Hmm... Alexa can't reach it either 13:35:55 ah 13:36:20 aha: http://pasky.ji.cz/elinks/ 13:36:22 that node.php?id=839 worked for me (from germany). 13:36:30 yes! 13:36:42 you're a fast one :) 13:36:55 I'm not getting a response 13:37:03 even though I'm using Links :-) 13:37:21 could not connect 13:37:29 UK and US 13:38:09 the Google cache doesn't have it either 13:38:32 wow 13:39:56 so, isn't a semantic web about URI's in general and wiki's beeing a detail of it? 13:40:43 The Semantic Web is a kind of principle, of having machine readable data, with the consituent parts denoted by URIs (you're right about that). A Wiki is more of a collaborative HyperText environment; human readable information 13:40:50 however, I did write an RDFWiki somewhere 13:40:53 .google RDFWiki 13:40:54 RDFWiki: http://infomesh.net/2001/rdfwiki/&e=922 13:40:57 argh 13:40:58 .google RDFWiki 13:40:59 RDFWiki: http://infomesh.net/2001/rdfwiki 13:41:01 there 13:41:27 RDF 1.0 is the main language of the Semantic Web (at the moment) 13:41:58 i see. 13:42:24 why the `.' 's before google? 13:42:35 it's a command to xena 13:43:43 xena? a robot?? 13:43:51 yes 13:43:56 .status 13:43:57 server(s): 13:43:58 - irc.espnow.com:6667 - #esp, #esp-core, #espra, #google, #plex, #xenadev 13:43:59 - stampede.org:6667 - #Freenet, #erights, #esp, #espra, #freenet, #infoAnarchy, #infoanarchy, #lojban, #mnet, #p2p-hackers, #plex, #rdfig, #sbp, #semplesh, #swhack, #validator, #world-relations, #zope, #zope3-dev 13:43:59 cool invention! 13:44:00 - irc.w3.org:6665 - #er 13:44:01 module(s): 13:44:02 - execute, espra-alert, inet, isotime, seen, dict, esp_chanmon, temperature, autojoin, relay 13:44:03 - inet2 13:44:04 command triggers: "['.']" - python triggers: "['.py', '.python']" 13:44:05 base logfile: "/home/services/bots/xena/creature/creature.log" 13:44:06 started: 2002/04/12 19:26:32 - uptime: 18 hr(s) 17 min(s) 32 sec(s) 13:44:41 klasse! as germans would say. 13:44:57 heh 13:45:12 i'm beginning to see the light, mr. palmer :) 13:45:23 marvellous 13:46:03 do you know moin, the wiki in python? 13:47:43 yep 13:47:52 I know of it, that is 13:48:26 the RESTWiki uses Moin Moin, IIRC 13:48:31 .google RESTWiki 13:48:31 RESTWiki: http://internet.conveyor.com/RESTwiki/moin.cgi/FrontPage 13:48:38 yep 13:52:26 this channel is an incredible machination! 13:53:25 heh, it is quite cool, isn't it? :-) 13:53:39 just wait till I bring CygBot in... 13:53:44 CygBot (~sbp@m198-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 13:53:58 $ python -c "print 'Hi there'" 13:54:01 > Hi there 13:54:01 > [end] 13:57:01 $ python -c "import sys; print sys.path" 13:57:05 > ['', '/usr/lib/python2.2', '/usr/lib/python2.2/plat-cygwin', '/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages'] 13:57:06 > [end] 13:57:28 it's an IRC interface to my shell :-) 13:57:44 everything python? 13:57:54 nope: any *nixy command line 13:58:07 $ wc blargh.txt 13:58:07 did you ever think doing such things in ruby? 13:58:09 > 1 6 20 blargh.txt 13:58:09 > [end] 13:58:15 :)) 13:58:22 ruby: nah. I like Python too much 13:58:36 scheme? 13:58:41 ugh 13:59:45 well, scheme is alright, but for an IRC bot? 13:59:58 did you ever try to use https:// schemes in py-2.2? 14:00:08 with my installation, this doesn't work. 14:00:10 Hmm... I can't say that I have, no 14:00:16 that's quite odd 14:00:25 do you have a test that I can run? 14:00:52 the latest ipcheck.py from dyndns.org 14:01:04 runs with 2.1, but not 2.2 14:01:10 what error do you get in 2.2? 14:01:27 it just doesn't connect, it says: 14:01:38 "empty line", but there isn't one there! 14:01:58 stand bye.... 14:02:42 i remember now: it's the library! 14:03:06 Kal Lin is responsible for the code, 14:03:20 but he doesn't have too much time. 14:03:35 bummer. Perhaps you can make the changes yourself 14:03:36 as i said, 2.1 runs it... 14:03:46 or just use 2.1 :-) that might be easier 14:03:54 i dunno....with library stuff. 14:04:16 yeah, i use 2.1 *if* i use python for it. 14:04:38 ipcheck is very big if you have to go through proxies and routers, which i don't. 14:04:49 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:05:01 i thought so :) 14:05:05 security!! 14:05:18 actually, CygBot is pretty secure, AFAIK 14:05:41 I'm just not using it, so I thought I'd recover the window :-) 14:05:49 btw: rdfwiki, how come config is for m$? 14:06:24 um... because I use Windows, perhaps? 14:07:51 perhaps you do :) 14:08:38 Occam's razor 14:08:43 but note the shebang 14:12:45 File "rdfwiki", line 67, in pdump 14:12:45 pickle.dump(data,open(StoreFile,'wb'),1) 14:12:45 IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/wikipub/htdocs/rdfwiki/rdfwiki 14:12:46 .pkl' 14:12:51 ?? 14:13:00 the query was: 14:13:15 http://spotteswoode.dnsalias.org:8881/cgi-bin/rdfwiki?go=1 14:14:51 sorry: got a typo there 14:14:59 now it says: 14:15:13 Your Wiki has been initialized! 14:15:36 great! 14:16:09 congratulations on being the third person other than myself (that I know of) to install it 14:16:19 actually, possibly the second 14:16:53 :)) 14:17:08 what is "add triple to this node"? 14:18:52 I think it adds a triple with the current node as a subject 14:19:03 come on! 14:19:13 i need DOCUMENTATION!! :) 14:19:26 heh, heh 14:19:37 i know i know: you got the source, what are you waiting for... 14:20:01 just fiddle with stuff and find out for yourself: much more fun that way! :-) 14:21:12 the RDFWiki is not all that impressive, I grant 14:21:23 but I was working on a more comprehensive version 14:21:27 and then I got bored with it 14:21:33 ok. 14:21:49 just don't make your stuff apache-centric, that i hate! 14:21:58 moinmoin is apache-centric, 14:22:02 aaah, Apache 14:22:06 twiki is apache-centric.... 14:22:14 why is RDFWiki Apache-centric? 14:22:22 what run's right out-of-the-box is simple perl stuff, 14:22:29 Aaron got it running quite quickly, and that was on AOLServer, IIRC 14:22:32 that needs only CGI.pm. 14:22:38 blargh 14:22:49 AOLServer is really big. 14:22:56 i have thttpd. 14:23:00 or mathopd 14:23:15 and i don't want to get bigger than that. 14:23:27 it has to do with security 14:23:29 Hmm... small things 14:23:34 and laziness on my part. 14:24:22 Apache certainly soaks up memory... 14:24:33 * sbp gets the thttpd port 14:24:44 get the newest! 14:26:25 mr. palmer, it has been a pleasure talking to an open-minded person like yourself. 14:26:39 i gotta run, though... 14:26:51 rabataf has quit ("ok") 14:29:06 :-0 14:29:14 s/:-0/:-)/ 14:29:25 pleasant fellow 14:29:41 ugh, /.configure barfed:- 14:29:42 [[[ 14:29:42 checking for gcc... gcc 14:29:42 checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... no 14:29:42