IRC log of swhack on 2002-04-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:12:53 [tansaku_xr]
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01:17:15 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw listens to airline hold music
01:23:00 [AaronSw]
classical
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03:03:53 [AaronSw]
New Chimera's got an awesome logo.
03:14:12 [AaronSw]
mmm, anti-aliased web browsing
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03:48:22 [walloper]
<lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network. These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information. To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'. On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'. Thanks.
03:49:30 [walloper]
<lilo> Hints: If you absolutely need to pull a user off your channel, consider using /remove. Internal format is the same as KICK. It's a lot less disruptive though; it provides a PART with a fairly relaxed message.
03:54:10 [AaronSw]
cool nick: angelofentropy
04:25:18 [redmonk]
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04:25:46 [AaronSw]
we should run a turing test (type 1) sometime.
04:25:51 [AaronSw]
it'd be interesting to watch
04:28:43 [redmonk]
hi all
04:28:56 [AaronSw]
of course type 2 might be more interesting, but it's probably really obvious right now
04:28:57 [AaronSw]
hey redmonk
04:31:29 [redmonk]
s'appenin
04:32:51 [AaronSw]
think we should run a turing test?
04:35:34 [AaronSw]
Pat Hayes seems to be against it
04:36:20 [AaronSw]
Hm, looks like all the turing tests have involved machines...
04:40:23 [AaronSw]
"Studies show that 99%25 of people spell Hmm with 2 M's."
04:40:35 [AaronSw]
says A.L.I.C.E. when I say "Hm."
04:41:33 [AaronSw]
ha! it does the HAL speech
04:44:13 [AaronSw]
Turing Test one-liners, #4642 : Should David Beckham be captain of England football team?
04:44:30 [AaronSw]
number 3619 : Seriously, folks, how would you feel if you knew the true story that I was being held captive in an insame asylum in Pleasanton, Texas, and Governor George W Bush Junior and his wife the librarian com
04:45:05 [talli]
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04:46:58 [AaronSw]
heh! 'Ms. Cynthia Clay, the Shakespeare aficionado, was thrice misclassified as a computer. At least one of the judges made her classification on the premise that ``[no] human would have that amount of knowledge about Shakespeare.'''
05:56:09 [GabeW]
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07:38:20 [redmonk]
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10:05:16 [sbp]
heh, heh
10:05:56 [sbp]
* sbp just wrote another song
10:13:22 [sbp]
aaaaaargh! doctype.org has gone!
10:13:33 [sbp]
crap! how did that happen?
10:14:48 [sbp]
s/doctype/doctypes/
10:15:34 [sbp]
that's horrific. it was still up in January
10:16:26 [sbp]
aw, man...
10:17:21 [sbp]
Noooooooo! "0 pages found for http://www.doctypes.org/meta/NOTE-xhtml-augmeta.html"
10:21:21 [sbp]
hooray:-
10:21:22 [sbp]
[[[
10:21:22 [sbp]
the HTML WG will not recommend to use
10:21:22 [sbp]
'text/html' for this kind of documents.
10:21:32 [sbp]
]]] - Masayasu Ishikawa, on www-tag
10:22:30 [sbp]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Apr/0087
10:26:39 [sbp]
* sbp searches for a local copy of augmeta
10:26:58 [sbp]
ooh, ooh, Aaron's HTTP archive!
10:27:32 [sbp]
oh, the Google cache has it. Phew
10:41:24 [sbp]
aw, man:-
10:41:25 [sbp]
[[[
10:41:25 [sbp]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
10:41:26 [sbp]
<murray.altheim@[...]>
10:41:26 [sbp]
]]]
10:51:33 [sbp]
on his homepage: "Please note that the doctypes.org web site has been taken offline, though something always seems to be in the works."
11:54:52 [tansaku_xr]
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12:02:51 [sbp]
.time
12:02:51 [xena]
2002/04/09 12:02:51.6256 Universal
12:04:30 [sbp]
.time
12:04:30 [xena]
2002/04/09 12:04:30.6221 Universal
12:04:50 [sbp]
pff, 1:39? is that it?
13:10:46 [tomch]
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13:12:31 [davb]
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13:16:10 [sbp]
Hey tomch, davb
13:17:31 [tomch]
* tomch waves to everyone and sbp
13:20:25 [davb]
hiya
14:12:55 [redmonk]
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15:01:05 [AaronSw]
howdy sbp
15:02:34 [redmonk]
hey aaronsw
15:02:45 [AaronSw]
hey redmonk
15:06:10 [redmonk]
for the mathemetician in you, check this out: http://www.math.fau.edu/locke/graphthe.htm
15:06:17 [redmonk]
graph theory
15:06:48 [redmonk]
never studies it myself, but it's an interesting read, for a paragraph or so. then the formulae put me to sleep ;-)
15:06:54 [redmonk]
er, (never studied)
15:06:58 [AaronSw]
heh
15:07:18 [AaronSw]
I've done a bit, it's not the most exciting thing in the world
15:07:54 [redmonk]
no, but interesting from a software standpoint
15:07:56 [AaronSw]
to me at least...
15:08:06 [redmonk]
i've been drawing state diagrams in OG lately
15:08:10 [AaronSw]
ah, cool
15:08:13 [redmonk]
got me thinking about it
15:08:29 [redmonk]
it's the olny way to keep my head around some of the business logic in our app
15:08:57 [redmonk]
(this stuff is largely contained in an oracle database; we maintain a framework that encapsulates the business logic)
15:09:06 [redmonk]
(ugly stuff)
15:09:30 [AaronSw]
hm. trees and graphs in oracle get messy, as i recall
15:09:51 [redmonk]
well, the graph is only in my head
15:09:58 [AaronSw]
ah
15:10:30 [redmonk]
for example we have a table that defines certain states that an entity can be in from month to month
15:10:48 [redmonk]
in order to calculate the current balance for an entity, i have to account for each possible state
15:11:14 [redmonk]
sometimes combining states or differentiating between them
15:11:22 [redmonk]
hence the state diagram
15:11:38 [redmonk]
just to help me make sure i've covered all the bases
15:12:40 [AaronSw]
nice
15:12:54 [redmonk]
at my last job, one of our contractors wrote a java framework that let you write business logic as a state diagram. you would use a graphical tool to diagram it, then define the messages on your object that would move it from state to state. the framework kept track of what messages were valid ffor what state
15:13:06 [AaronSw]
oh, neat
15:13:15 [redmonk]
yeah. pity we never used it in a project
15:13:24 [redmonk]
we had a few it would have been great in, too
15:13:27 [redmonk]
bad management
15:13:29 [redmonk]
:-(
15:13:36 [AaronSw]
:-(
15:13:41 [redmonk]
it was all XML based (the diagrams and stuff)
15:14:04 [redmonk]
so they would also render them to html via xsl for documentation purposes
15:15:06 [AaronSw]
neat
15:15:07 [davb]
neat
15:15:08 [davb]
:)
15:15:26 [redmonk]
heh
15:19:19 [davb]
that sounds like acs-workflow, or at least what it was planned to be.
15:21:28 [tomch]
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15:22:29 [redmonk]
yeah, a while back i remember someone working on an xml-based workflow shema
15:22:32 [redmonk]
schema
15:22:38 [redmonk]
not sure what happened to it
15:29:09 [tansaku_xj]
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15:30:46 [redmonk]
oh, it also had versioning built into the state diagrams. if you updated a schema, objects using one version would use it until they were done, and new objects would use the updated vesion. or you couldd msg all objects being managed to use the new schema
15:31:00 [redmonk]
*sigh*
15:31:18 [AaronSw]
These objects sound pretty smart.
15:31:23 [redmonk]
now it's trapped in a company that doesn't know what they've got
15:31:35 [redmonk]
argh
15:32:20 [redmonk]
well, the objects themselves were pretty dumb, but the system that managed your objects and the states was pretty smart
15:32:26 [redmonk]
that was the nice bit -
15:32:54 [redmonk]
your "business objects" only had to know how to do the proper calculations
15:33:38 [redmonk]
the OSM (object state manager) would send msgs to your objects, and based on the results would set the object state in the diagram accordingly)
15:34:03 [redmonk]
(state in this case referring to state in a diagram, not 'persistence')
15:34:36 [redmonk]
if you tried to tell an object to do something that was not appropriate for it's current state, the OSM would yell at you.
15:34:54 [AaronSw]
Heh, cool.
15:35:11 [AaronSw]
Hm, 10:34... I really should get some work done today...
15:35:22 [redmonk]
hehe
15:35:24 [redmonk]
have fun
15:35:33 [AaronSw]
heh: *** tav|away has quit IRC (Killed (zelazny.openprojects.net (rowling.openprojects.net(tav) <- forward.openprojects.net)))
15:35:45 [AaronSw]
c'ya
15:36:48 [sbp]
Gotta run
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16:12:17 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.domainmonger.com/ver_warn.shtml
16:12:54 [chumpster]
A: http://www.domainmonger.com/ver_warn.shtml from AaronSw
16:13:11 [AaronSw]
A:|VeriSign Tries to Steal Domains
16:13:17 [AaronSw]
A::I got one of these letters, pretty nasty.
16:13:33 [chumpster]
titled item A
16:13:55 [chumpster]
commented item A
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16:56:49 [davb]
anyone ever looked at this: http://www.opencyc.org/ ?
16:59:41 [AaronSw]
a little
17:00:00 [AaronSw]
davb, what's the syntax for foreign keys in pgsql?
17:00:11 [AaronSw]
column type references table?
17:00:51 [AaronSw]
ah, guess so
17:02:30 [davb]
yeah :)
17:04:06 [tomch]
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17:05:27 [tomch]
* tomch wavelets
17:14:28 [redmonk]
'lo tomch
17:35:46 [tomch]
:-)
17:36:48 [sbp]
* sbp wonders if tom is a wave or a particle
17:37:05 [sbp]
.google "46 72 69 6e 6b 20 72 75 6c 65 73 21"
17:37:06 [xena]
"46 72 69 6e 6b 20 72 75 6c 65 73 21": http://www.eeggs.com/items/17723.html
17:37:32 [AaronSw]
a wavelet is a system used for categorizing images
17:38:03 [tomch]
I'm off for food anyway :)
17:39:08 [AaronSw]
are there any decent CGI modules for python?
17:39:11 [AaronSw]
the default one sucks...
17:39:29 [AaronSw]
i'm spoiled from the acs, i guess
17:58:02 [davb]
heh
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19:15:39 [davb]
what do you guys think of collecting web site and page rankings from librarians?
19:17:04 [AaronSw]
what for?
19:17:10 [AaronSw]
sort of like the virtual www library?
19:17:53 [davb]
kind of to augment page rankings such as google.
19:18:26 [GabeW]
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19:18:39 [davb]
got the idea from here: http://www.theshiftedlibrarian.com/2002/04/08.html#a1228
19:22:45 [AaronSw]
"we'll never trust pagerank enough to use it to verify authenticity." why? PageRank _is_ a trust metric!
19:23:17 [davb]
set by magic definied by google's backend software.
19:23:43 [davb]
I guess librarians would trust ratings by their fellow librarians, but then you only see what other people like you like.
19:23:47 [AaronSw]
it's hardly magic. it's been written up and published in scholarly journals, and studied by some of the best in the industry
19:23:47 [davb]
which is kinda boring.
19:23:55 [davb]
really?
19:24:03 [davb]
ok.
19:24:07 [davb]
* davb is wrong
19:24:14 [AaronSw]
heh
19:24:45 [davb]
but anyway, would it be useful to have more than one way to rank page authenticity/usefulness?
19:24:53 [AaronSw]
sure
19:25:08 [redmonk]
i think here that librarians are using a compleetely different trust metric
19:25:20 [redmonk]
that's why they would not trust googles
19:25:20 [AaronSw]
yeah, that's probably true.
19:25:44 [davb]
I just thought it would be interesting to capture the data.
19:25:46 [redmonk]
they want to make sure that you get the RIGHT data... google can only tell you what everyone else THINSK is authoritative
19:25:52 [davb]
actually it would be cool to compare it.
19:26:10 [redmonk]
which is why dave w is a high hit on john doerr, just 'cuase he talks about him a lot
19:26:14 [AaronSw]
in the pagerank paper, they discuss running the pagerank algorithms using peoples homepages as a seed
19:26:18 [AaronSw]
it's pretty interesting
19:26:25 [davb]
neat.
19:26:31 [AaronSw]
gotta run
19:26:34 [davb]
bye
19:26:47 [redmonk]
cya
19:26:48 [davb]
comparing librarians to pagerank would have been a neat project for the google programming contest.
19:27:07 [redmonk]
librarians have training in categorization and such
19:27:15 [redmonk]
which google cannot take into account
19:27:21 [redmonk]
necessarily
19:27:35 [davb]
right.
19:27:59 [redmonk]
pagerank could be abstracted i suppose and then run on a set of librarian-supplied data
19:28:13 [redmonk]
librank ;-)
19:28:44 [davb]
hey, this is what swhack is all about right? interesting projects that distract us from the "real job"
19:28:55 [redmonk]
of course
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20:22:36 [sbp]
Iffy
20:22:42 [Morbus]
hey there.
20:22:45 [Morbus]
got a new computer at work.
20:22:49 [Morbus]
gonna be in and out all day
20:22:50 [sbp]
stats?
20:23:11 [Morbus]
i dunno. 800mhz, p3, 196ram, 16meg video, sound card (finally), win2k
20:23:33 [sbp]
cool (roughly the same as this box)
20:23:47 [Morbus]
my old machine was a 233 :)
20:23:54 [sbp]
heh, yeah - I remember
20:23:59 [sbp]
dunno how you'd put up with it
20:24:24 [Morbus]
easily, actually.
20:24:26 [Morbus]
reboot.
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20:24:44 [CygBot]
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20:25:13 [sbp]
$ python -c "import md5; print md5.new('b11242799d8e4de1052e3c7e3cb037ac').hexdigest()"
20:25:21 [CygBot]
> b11242bc1ac79a78620720e3539388c9
20:25:21 [CygBot]
> [end]
20:25:42 [sbp]
the importance of checking more than the first few characters of a hash...
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20:26:36 [sbp]
alright, even that only happens about once in 10 million hashes, but still
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20:41:24 [walloper]
<lilo> High water mark for tonight is 6,665 clients. Say, that's kind of neat. :)
20:41:48 [sbp]
high tide?
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21:01:57 [walloper]
<lilo> This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network. These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information. To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'. On most clients: '/mode <yournick> -w'. Thanks.
21:02:19 [walloper]
<lilo> Hint: If you see a problem with the server code, please email as much detail as possible to bugs@openprojects.net . Thanks!
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22:33:04 [AaronSw]
heh, that's quite awesome, really.
22:33:24 [sbp]
what is?
22:33:31 [AaronSw]
re: b11242799d8e4de1052e3c7e3cb037ac and b11242bc1ac79a78620720e3539388c9
22:33:40 [sbp]
aha :-)
22:38:05 [AaronSw]
we were wondering if there was a document which included its hash
22:38:16 [sbp]
ah! I was wondering the same thing
22:38:17 [AaronSw]
or rather, could you make one that did
22:38:22 [sbp]
in fact, that's what I was trying to do!
22:38:29 [AaronSw]
and we figured out how to
22:38:31 [sbp]
it's practically impossible
22:38:38 [sbp]
I worked out that it'd take me 5 billion years
22:38:43 [sbp]
figured out how to: easy
22:38:46 [AaronSw]
(this was after dinner at p2pcon2, as we walked back to the hotel)
22:38:52 [AaronSw]
yeah, it's pretty easy
22:39:01 [AaronSw]
you just list all the possible hashes, and then hash that.
22:39:04 [sbp]
heh. weird. People all over the world must have had the same idea :-)
22:39:20 [AaronSw]
i was thinking about this yesterday for some reason... or was it this morning
22:39:22 [sbp]
Hmm... actually, I wasn't thinking about that
22:39:23 [AaronSw]
dirk gently and all...
22:39:33 [sbp]
listing all of the hashes and then hasing it is cheating
22:39:37 [AaronSw]
heh.
22:39:42 [sbp]
you want to be able to control the content of the document
22:39:56 [AaronSw]
I just grabed the latest Dirk book from the library, been reading it on the way downtown and back.
22:40:25 [sbp]
so I was thinking that you have your string x, and your intial hash y. then you hash x+y. if the hash of x+y == y, then you've got a result, otherwise you take the new hash and use that for the value of y
22:40:33 [sbp]
repeat until you find a result
22:40:45 [sbp]
er... 5 million years, not 5 billion
22:40:55 [sbp]
it's pretty easy to generate a billion hashes that way
22:41:05 [AaronSw]
What if none of them work?
22:41:09 [sbp]
in fact, I've already sifted through over a third of a billion tonight
22:41:20 [sbp]
if none of the work, so what? you just carry on
22:41:29 [sbp]
I also came up with something to make sure that they don't loop, too
22:41:36 [sbp]
because that'd be a disaster
22:41:37 [AaronSw]
But there are a fininte number of potential y values.
22:41:47 [AaronSw]
And it's highly unlikely that any of them will work.
22:41:52 [sbp]
yeah?
22:42:10 [AaronSw]
So your method sucks. A birthday-style attack is much better.
22:42:11 [sbp]
got a better way of doing it? you may as well just iterate through the list of hashes
22:42:33 [sbp]
how would you use the birthday attack on this?
22:42:45 [AaronSw]
IOW, pick a document x and a hash y. then keep on adding spaces to the end of them until the hash of x+y+spaces = y
22:43:00 [AaronSw]
i forget the name of this process, but it's in AC
22:43:07 [sbp]
ugh, but then you'll end up with a document that's GBs long!
22:43:16 [AaronSw]
you don't even need to add spaces onto the end, you can add spaces to the end of each line
22:43:16 [sbp]
which is quite besides the point
22:43:22 [AaronSw]
that'll give you 2^n possibilities
22:43:29 [AaronSw]
so you only need a document of 512 lines long
22:43:38 [AaronSw]
and you can halve that pretty easily
22:43:49 [sbp]
ugh. whitespace
22:44:02 [AaronSw]
or get some funky unicode character that doesn't appear. i don't care
22:44:18 [sbp]
heh
22:44:28 [AaronSw]
anyway, if you can do this you can break digital signatures
22:44:37 [AaronSw]
since you can just make people sign whatever you want
22:44:55 [sbp]
Hmm... I really don't see how this is any faster
22:44:56 [AaronSw]
since you can pick the hash
22:45:08 [AaronSw]
It terminates! That's how it's faster!
22:45:16 [AaronSw]
Yours has no guarantee of success, mine does.
22:48:00 [sbp]
ah, right. I can make mine terminate if I go through the list of hash values starting from 00000000...
22:48:31 [sbp]
so your method is still going to take a million years, and you'll end up with gigabytes of whitespace
22:48:49 [AaronSw]
huh? yours still won't terminante
22:49:01 [sbp]
why not? is has to have a hash
22:49:09 [AaronSw]
you won't end up with gigabytes of whitespace if your messages has more than 2^512 lines
22:49:25 [AaronSw]
you'll have a max of one on each line, and that's a very rare case
22:49:31 [AaronSw]
and even so it's 512 chars
22:49:41 [AaronSw]
Let me see if I understand your method:
22:50:05 [AaronSw]
Take a document x and a hash y (initially 000000...) hash(x+y)
22:50:12 [AaronSw]
increment y until hash(x+y) = y, right?
22:50:30 [AaronSw]
that's not going to work, since y changes each time
22:50:36 [sbp]
no. take a document x, with a hash y in it, and guess the hash
22:50:46 [AaronSw]
guess the hash?
22:51:04 [sbp]
i.e. for z in range(ffffffff...): if y = z: break
22:51:15 [sbp]
s/=/==/
22:51:24 [AaronSw]
what's y?
22:51:39 [sbp]
argh, hang on, that won't work
22:51:42 [sbp]
* sbp smacks self
22:51:44 [AaronSw]
:-)
22:52:19 [sbp]
I still don't understand the whitespace approach, though
22:52:50 [AaronSw]
OK, so you have a document x that you want to hash to y.
22:53:22 [AaronSw]
and if you have 2^n (where n is the size of the hash) different documents, one of them must hash to y
22:53:26 [AaronSw]
with me so far?
22:53:30 [sbp]
uh huh
22:53:51 [AaronSw]
so whehther a line has a space on the end is one bit, 2 possibilities
22:54:12 [sbp]
pardon?
22:54:29 [AaronSw]
a line of text
22:54:33 [AaronSw]
is there a space at the end or not?
22:54:42 [sbp]
O.K., boolean, gotcha
22:54:43 [AaronSw]
humans don't notice these things, which is why it's good
22:54:58 [sbp]
oh! right, I've got it
22:54:59 [sbp]
ping
22:55:04 [AaronSw]
so by combinatorics, multiply the possibilities together: 2 *2 * ...
22:55:05 [AaronSw]
yeah there
22:55:12 [sbp]
heh, quite ingenious
22:55:30 [AaronSw]
heh, Dave's got access to the Google SOAP interface
22:56:14 [sbp]
Hmph, the amount of Daves that I know seems to rise every day. it's getting so confusing
22:56:45 [sbp]
ah, that must be why Trigger always calls Rodney "Dave"
22:56:58 [AaronSw]
Rodney?
22:57:01 [sbp]
it's just easier
22:57:09 [sbp]
.google Trigger Rodney Dave
22:57:09 [xena]
Trigger Rodney Dave: http://www.pubnetwork.co.uk/TVpubs/NagsHead/NagsHead.htm
22:57:33 [AaronSw]
We heard the people of Brazil complaining about the Simpsons on the Radio today.
22:57:44 [AaronSw]
cf. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0408Simpsons-ON.html
22:58:03 [sbp]
The Simpsons are on the radio now?
22:58:20 [sbp]
ah, right, I heard about that episode
22:58:30 [AaronSw]
No, the people of Brazil were on the radio
23:01:13 [xoot]
xoot (xoot@177.sanjose-01-02rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack
23:01:17 [sbp]
xoot!
23:01:21 [xoot]
hello
23:01:41 [xoot]
I guess someone is alive here :D
23:01:41 [sbp]
what a cool nickname. I'm going to be saying that for days now
23:01:48 [xoot]
yeah
23:01:54 [xoot]
I post at macosx.com
23:01:59 [xoot]
same nick
23:02:00 [sbp]
Uh oh
23:02:01 [AaronSw]
pronounced zoot, soot, or scoot?
23:02:29 [xoot]
ksoot
23:03:07 [GabeW]
GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
23:03:11 [xoot]
yo
23:03:58 [sbp]
so, what's the adjectival form of your nickname? xootic? xootal? xooty?
23:04:12 [sbp]
.google xootic
23:04:12 [xena]
xootic: http://www.win.tue.nl/xootic/symposium2001
23:04:28 [xoot]
xooty
23:04:37 [xoot]
and I am an insane poster at macosx.com
23:04:44 [xoot]
not to advertise the site :)
23:04:49 [xoot]
it's not mine ;)
23:04:58 [sbp]
heh, right. I noticed
23:05:39 [xoot]
my site's at: http://osx.blogspot.com/
23:06:17 [sbp]
aha: "Once I found out about Mac OS X, I replaced the r in root with x. The result: xoot." - http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=d4c63285f808af0553362093a2a5af0c&threadid=15842&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
23:06:25 [xoot]
yeah
23:06:30 [hazmat]
hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack
23:06:46 [sbp]
man, as if I didn't already have enough of OS X people with Morbus and Aaron
23:06:59 [xoot]
hehehe
23:07:03 [sbp]
I don't know if I can take a third person saying "isn't OS X so great!!!" without throwing up
23:07:12 [xoot]
isn't OS X so great!!!
23:07:13 [AaronSw]
and deus_x, and rillian...
23:07:18 [xoot]
:D
23:07:21 [sbp]
* sbp feels the vomit rising
23:08:05 [sbp]
What version of #swhack are *you* running? :-)
23:08:07 [xoot]
i normally chat at irc.press3.com, but I decided to visit here for a while
23:08:14 [xoot]
swhack?
23:08:17 [sbp]
swhack!
23:08:21 [xoot]
huh?
23:08:24 [xoot]
:D
23:08:47 [sbp]
if you didn't notice, that's the channel name, and Aaron just VERSION'd us all. It looks a bit funny in my client
23:08:57 [sbp]
[AaronSw:#swhack VERSION]
23:09:16 [AaronSw]
i was looking for more macosxers... oh, wmf, of course
23:09:29 [xoot]
i'm using my wintel now
23:09:33 [xoot]
sucks
23:09:40 [xoot]
too lazy to boot up my ibook
23:11:00 [sbp]
ugh, the dude/dudette even has a logo: http://web.archive.org/web/20020409161044/http://www.macosx.com/forums/avatar.php?userid=6865&dateline=1017505593
23:11:10 [xoot]
dude
23:11:18 [ksuther]
ksuther (~kent@syr-66-67-73-236.twcny.rr.com) has joined #swhack
23:11:21 [ksuther]
ello
23:11:28 [xoot]
yo
23:11:31 [sbp]
thanks. I should have added "delete as applicable"
23:11:50 [xoot]
my fellow poster, ksuther
23:11:57 [sbp]
ah. Hi
23:12:39 [ksuther]
* ksuther waves
23:12:39 [sbp]
they say that OSXers hunt in pairs
23:12:44 [ksuther]
hehehe
23:12:46 [xoot]
lol
23:12:57 [xoot]
hunt for what?
23:13:15 [sbp]
decent desktop themes, probably. Aqua my butt
23:13:37 [ksuther]
heh
23:13:42 [xoot]
aqua is cool
23:13:46 [sbp]
"Aqua my ass" would have been more alliterative, but actually I quite like Aqua...
23:14:26 [ksuther]
:)
23:14:38 [xoot]
any1 wanna sign up with macosx.com?
23:14:47 [xoot]
it would be cool if ya posted there
23:14:58 [xoot]
i especcially love herve's B&G
23:18:29 [sbp]
sorry, but you guys really need to read "Your Mac is not a sex toy" in http://jerryandpatti.com/~patti/
23:18:49 [sbp]
* sbp supresses a chuckle
23:20:11 [sbp]
this bit still makes me laugh: "it's just a computer, people. [...] does it give you a hand job? perhaps it spews a couple of $20 bills out of the slot-loading cd/dvd/super drive?"
23:21:59 [GabeW]
GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")
23:22:11 [xoot]
we love our macs
23:22:20 [xoot]
read "macintosh... the naked truth"
23:22:49 [sbp]
* sbp begins to wonder if all OSXers are Freudians
23:43:00 [sbp]
Hmm... that whitespace trick isn't foolproof
23:43:10 [xoot]
whitespace trick?
23:43:21 [sbp]
yeah, for embedding a hash in a document
23:43:47 [xoot]
ah
23:43:50 [sbp]
you'd need to have a great than n amount of lines, because the hashes that you get will probably contain clashes
23:43:58 [sbp]
OTOH, the likelyhood is not high
23:44:05 [ksuther]
ksuther has left #swhack
23:44:35 [sbp]
"hash clash" is so much nicer than "hash collision"... :-)
23:49:40 [sbp]
it'd be feasible to do it in a sensible time period if you used a truncated hash... and even then, you'd have to compress it to about 35 bits
23:49:58 [jeremiah]
jeremiah (~chatzilla@ip68-10-5-132.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack
23:50:02 [jeremiah]
hey
23:50:07 [sbp]
heh, hey
23:50:22 [sbp]
* sbp might actually try it on a truncated md5
23:50:26 [jeremiah]
you know how to make a page, like in php, where as the program prints stuff out (like every 4 seconds) it will keep adding that to the page?
23:50:49 [jeremiah]
the page is supposed to perform a long process, so i'd like the page to gradually print out, but it doesn't seem to be able to do that
23:51:12 [sbp]
er, you'd have to get the page to refresh itself
23:51:23 [sbp]
or use some sort of scripting
23:51:24 [jeremiah]
hmm I've seen continually loading ones before I think
23:53:19 [sbp]
* sbp reckons he could find an 8 hex-char (32 bit) hash within a week
23:53:31 [xoot]
* xoot has a cool nick
23:53:47 [sbp]
heh, you sure do
23:54:33 [sbp]
So I need a 32-line "page"
23:57:07 [xoot]
i gtg
23:57:11 [sbp]
c'ya
23:57:12 [xoot]
cya
23:57:48 [xoot]
xoot has quit ("":) Be Back Later!!! | Visit my site at http://osx.blogspot.com/"")