00:00:25 http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/ 00:00:33 :-) 00:01:11 The type people yell at me for using ditto marks, and the Web people yell at me for using smart quotes. It's hopeless. 00:02:57 "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." - George Bernard Shaw, via Robin Williams 00:07:00 Ooh, special characters for prime marks! Hm, where are they on Mac OS X? 00:09:11 “How about this?” :-) 00:09:42 comes out as: How about this? 00:09:53 a bit verbose, I'll grant you that 00:10:13 That looks sorta like ,,How about this?% on my machine 00:10:22 here's a single one: 00:11:05 like ",,How about this?%": perhaps you need a better machine :-) 00:11:14 I think you do. :) 00:11:49 Apparently on windows they're Alt-1062 and Alt-1078 00:12:23 &6 00:12:42 that's an ampersand and a six to me 00:12:48 same here 00:13:01 the entities that I used before are correct, so I'm sure that the problem is your end 00:13:13 try switching fonts, perhaps? 00:13:32 OTOH, perhaps the problem is with my font 00:13:45 * AaronSw thinks about how to get it into his browser 00:13:52 but cycling it doesn't give any problems 00:14:14 I get smart quotes in my browser. 00:14:42 I'm still looking for prime marks, though. 00:15:05 How about this? 00:15:47 superscript-3How about this?superscript-2 00:16:27 Heh. 00:16:42 That's characters for you./ 00:20:34 yeah... 00:20:50 >>> u"How about this?" 00:20:50 u'\xb3How about this?\xb2' 00:21:47 Hey, it printed right this time. 00:21:53 or were you just quoting me? 00:22:02 just quoting you 00:22:10 ah. 00:22:10 I get cycling errors here:- 00:22:10 >>> u"How about this?" 00:22:10 u'\x93How about this?\x94' 00:22:10 >>> u"“How about this?”" 00:22:10 UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128) 00:22:23 I get that too 00:22:44 >>> print '\xb3How about this?\xb2' 00:22:44 ?How about this?? 00:22:52 yeah 00:23:06 it's annoying, because it seems that all of the various things that I'm using handle characters differently 00:24:49 Heh, Robin is complaing about people who pronounce forte as "fortay". 00:25:07 Robin? 00:25:26 Robin Williams, she's the author of this type book I'm reading. 00:26:05 ah 00:26:09 en: em: hyphen: - 00:26:15 try "print '\x93How about this?\x94'" 00:26:44 >>> print '\x93How about this?\x94' 00:26:44 ?How about this?? 00:26:51 don't use \x93 and \x94 00:26:51 that's ?How about this?? 00:27:00 I just get question marks :-) 00:27:04 me too 00:27:39 from you, that is... proper quotes through Python 00:29:24 Oh, odd. 00:29:50 not really 00:30:37 I guess it's because iTerminal isn't very i18n savvy. 00:30:54 sbp has changed the topic to: Swhack: a place with character (we just can't decide which one) 00:30:58 it's also not a Microsoft app 00:31:18 AaronSw has changed the topic to: A place with character (we just can't decide which one) 00:31:32 Swhack Style Guide: Assume "Swhack:" or "Swhack Weblog:" before the topic 00:31:40 (becuase that's how it is on the website) 00:32:01 and on irc it's #swhack before the topic 00:32:23 Pff 00:32:39 @ http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/ 00:32:44 A: demoroniser - correct moronic and gratuitously incompatible Microsoft HTML from deltab 00:32:51 who reads the topics/weblog anyway? 00:32:51 haha 00:32:56 heh, bad deltab! 00:33:21 Julian Bond, that's who 00:33:54 .google "Julian Bond" 00:33:55 "Julian Bond": http://www.voidstar.com 00:34:05 oh, right 00:34:11 sorry Julian 00:34:46 conclusion of recent "zapthink" report: Financial Services Sector to spend $8.3 Billion (US) on XML and Web Services by 2005 00:34:46 Are they called zapthink because they get zapped if they actually try to think? 00:34:56 standard practice for analyst quote mills, I hear 00:35:50 you offed that! 00:36:36 Oh, foreign spam makes me laugh: "We are apologizing to the inconvenience arisen from this letter to you." 00:36:53 apologize to me, not the inconvenience! 00:37:13 Heh. 00:37:20 Well I'm de-offing it here. 00:37:46 Those inconveniences are always taking over, bossing people around. 00:39:22 Robin: "[Swash R]emember, swash characters are like cheescakeit's easy to overdose." 00:40:50 yeah... and they're both rather cheesy 00:43:31 The End of ASCII 00:44:06 ;RtI/!8'"D`a.ZtOim\fyrq%tlFFol\`ݙA5_j֋??? 00:44:14 whoa, that made my client beep 00:44:19 heh, cool 00:44:51 A: Why the beep? 00:44:51 C: We've found that odd typography characters is often the sign of a lunatic. 00:45:00 heh, heh, heh 00:45:06 * sbp just excerpted the source of a .tar.gz opened with Wordpad 00:45:31 Aha. 00:46:25 I'm quickly becoming a typography obsessif. 00:46:34 s/typography characters/characters/ 00:46:36 But not as much as Joe Clark. ;) 00:46:40 flashing gobbledegook on my screen 00:47:06 makes deltab something something 00:48:12 demona (~chatzilla@24.247.121.252.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) has joined #swhack 00:48:20 nd the unking student. 00:48:41 what? 00:48:56 find the flunking student. [with ligatures] 00:49:19 what? 00:49:22 think s the perfect character for tav 00:49:52 I heard that as "thnd the thunking student" 00:50:28 why? 00:50:48 s/thnd/Thnd/ 00:51:10 because you used the orn character 00:51:35 Silly Microsoft again. 00:51:40 I use the fi ligature. 00:51:54 ^d 00:52:05 weird. And the (presumably "I" character) came out as Z with a v on it 00:52:21 Heh. It was a dotless I. 00:52:29 well, a dotless i. 00:52:55 we should use Unicode codepoints instead 00:52:59 well, you should 00:53:08 cyrillic small letter tshe, I think 00:53:33 hrm, that's no dotless i 00:54:51 IRC i18n has a ways to go, I think. 00:55:21 (Z with caron) 00:55:30 agreed 00:55:42 but you can't go wrong with codepoints 00:56:03 can youU+003F 00:59:18 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 00:59:25 swhack! 00:59:32 Hi wmf 00:59:46 wmf! 00:59:50 Moving? 01:00:09 yep 01:01:17 kinda stressful 01:01:30 I bet. Your lease is up? 01:01:36 yeah 01:02:36 ooh: U+203D 01:03:16 INTERROBANG? 01:03:29 we're also starting a new project at work tomorrow 01:03:41 something interesting? 01:03:48 aha! prime is U+2032 01:04:13 HTP - argh that doesn't work in here 01:04:27 nor here 01:04:33 Sorry, gotta run... 01:04:35 * AaronSw is away: dinner 01:04:39 c'ya 01:04:48 hah, you expect to use Unicode in IRC? 01:04:57 what a neat character, though. More about it at http://www.interrobang-mks.com/ 01:05:04 heh, well that's what we've been discussing 01:05:22 you have no chance to use unicode, make your time 01:05:39 Aaron's reading this typography book, and what with deltab and I being pedantic-obsessives when it comes to this sort of thing... 01:05:39 * AaronSw has a few more seconds... 01:05:49 so you don't know where you're moving to yet, wmf? cutting it close... 01:05:50 besides, it's not called HTP' any more 01:05:59 Oh? 01:06:07 Heh, I didn't notice that. 01:06:13 .wn bis 01:06:44 you might need an Italian dictionary 01:07:31 at least SXSW is over, so I won't totally explode 01:07:45 Hm, Google Translate doesn't know what it means. 01:07:54 encore 01:08:11 Heh. 01:08:13 literally, "again" or "a second time" 01:08:13 now i'm really gone 01:08:18 * AaronSw is away: dinner 01:08:30 * sbp just happened to have an Italian dictionary sitting on a shelf 01:09:33 dear mom, I'm dating an acress... 01:11:42 * sbp checks out HTP bis => Jefferson Center 01:13:25 Hmm... "known as the area's high-technology corridor" - http://www.jeffersoncenter.com/location.html 01:13:43 that's true 01:33:55 This is a WALLOPS message for the Open Projects Network. These messages contain non-critical comments and announcements and detailed server admin information. To turn them off, turn off user mode 'w'. On most clients: '/mode -w'. Thanks. Hi all. The latest maintenance release of dancer-ircd, fixing a nice list of miscellaneous bugs, is up on the testnet (port 9001 on your favorite server here)....please thrash it :) thanks :) 01:34:29 geez, do we need to hear the wallops twice? 01:35:52 once for you, once for the logs... :-) 01:42:19 xena has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:42:19 walloper has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:42:19 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:42:19 BenSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:42:19 hazmat has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:43:40 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:43:40 walloper (~nobody@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:43:40 AaronSw (~aaronsw@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:43:40 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:43:40 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 01:43:51 That was fun. 01:44:13 tick tock, it don't stop 01:44:17 I like Wes' web services story. 01:44:29 which one? 01:44:37 About the microphones. 01:44:47 oh. I like it, too 01:45:04 just trying to put things in perspective 01:46:45 oddly enough, there are standards for pro audio 01:50:16 hah, standards 02:23:36 eikeon (~eikeon@jungle.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 02:23:41 eikeon! 02:23:45 Hi there. 02:24:07 Just reading your web page :) 02:24:07 how's it going? 02:24:31 Heh, cool. 02:24:36 * AaronSw checks out redfoot... 02:24:48 We were thinking of having an RDF API Phone BOF, are you interested? 02:25:06 discussing progammatic interfaces, as well as networking ones 02:25:33 Yeah, sounds interesting. 02:26:14 Have not done anything on Redfoot for far too long now... 02:26:49 have been working on what I am going to do for a day job. 02:27:01 What's that? 02:27:25 bioinformatics? 02:27:38 Was the Redfoot networking protocol ever documented/implemented? 02:27:42 demona has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:27:45 As in... I have not had a day job for a while now :) 02:28:01 Ah, not alone, unfortunately. 02:29:06 No, we never really got going on the Redfoot networking protocol 02:30:23 Is this a publicly archived room? 02:30:32 Yes. 02:43:02 [sound of another article going down the crapper] 02:43:26 I keep writing articles and borking them, lately. I must have written about 5 things that just haven't worked out 02:47:12 * AaronSw is away: watching "Small Time Crooks" 02:47:54 * sbp is away: chatting on #swhack 02:47:58 so, anyway... 02:48:39 actually, I'm gonna work a bit more on my most recent thing. Perhaps there's some salvagable stuff 02:51:16 rm_ (~chatzilla@ip68-2-102-26.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack 02:51:29 rm_ is now known as rm 02:51:33 hi all 02:51:37 hi wmf 02:51:38 hey there rm! 02:51:40 aaron 02:51:44 hey sbp 02:51:48 wazzup 02:51:58 saw you were looking for me yesterday.... 02:51:59 just trying to salvage stuff from an article 02:52:02 I was? 02:52:09 i thought 02:52:17 maybe it was in my head 02:52:19 Perhaps I was. Dunno what for, though :-) 02:52:20 that happens 02:52:23 heh, heh 02:52:27 he 02:52:28 h 02:52:30 over-active imagination, perhaps 02:52:43 Aaron just wandered off to watch "Small Time Crooks", BTW 02:53:02 cool 02:53:15 so what's this new parka thing? 02:53:21 somme new rdf engine? 02:53:37 it's something that Jim Hendler et al. had been working on for years. it's a kinda-RDF engine, yeah 02:53:55 whois jim hendler? 02:53:57 well, it stores binary relationships, and allows you to query them quickly. it's fast 02:54:18 Jim Hendler: of the University of Maryland, ex-DAML project manager, and WebONT WG chair 02:54:26 ah 02:57:40 aaon get any further with his merge? 02:57:43 er, aaron 02:58:09 hey rm 02:58:49 I don't think so 02:58:51 hwy wmf 02:58:55 er, hey 02:58:59 no-typing fool 02:59:15 supwes 02:59:33 apartment-shopping stress 02:59:44 hey, new design. nice 02:59:50 oh no fun 02:59:56 what new design? 03:00:00 oh, on rm> 03:00:03 yeah 03:00:04 redmonk? 03:00:06 yeah 03:00:07 all css 03:00:11 thanks 03:00:22 it's still only the front page though 03:00:24 :-}( 03:00:27 :-( 03:01:34 I think I'll add a buch of sites to my bookmarks 03:02:02 cool 03:02:36 (donkey on Shrek: "pick me! pick me!") 03:02:54 sbp: where do you find guitar tabs? 03:03:01 WMGGW 03:04:02 usually OLGA, or one of its interfaces 03:04:07 .google OLGA tabs 03:04:08 OLGA tabs: http://www.olga.net 03:04:53 cooool 03:04:55 thx 03:08:05 np 03:10:33 mmmm 03:10:39 http://www.olga.net/dynamic/browse.php?local=main/r/rem 03:10:45 w00t! 03:13:41 heh, heh 03:17:03 love that rem 03:17:05 hehe 03:17:45 even before "the web", i was downloading lyrics and tabs from an email responder that someone on r.m.r 03:17:51 set up 03:19:13 ah, those were the days 03:20:14 that was... '92 03:20:36 god. i've been on the net for 10 years 03:20:40 this year 03:20:46 what a geezer 03:24:03 heh! 03:30:50 ;-) 03:33:01 i should blog some of the latest on #semplesh... 03:33:10 anything interesting happen lately? 03:33:58 Hmm... 03:34:00 No :-) 03:34:38 didn't think so ;-) 03:35:02 although aaron did get the rdfapi worked on 03:35:36 yep 03:37:32 hm, what day was that? 03:38:04 Friday 03:50:53 sbp: canonical Eep URI? 03:59:03 http://infomesh.net/2002/eep/ 04:02:55 Homer: Professional athletes... always want more 04:07:58 so what are you up to sean 04:09:55 listening to Zep, fiding RegExp stuff, chatting to people... 04:10:29 cool 04:20:41 i was going o move anno over to infogami but i'm going to wait until aaron has eep merged too, i think 04:21:15 yep, good idea 04:21:17 * AaronSw returns 04:21:30 although he might ask me to do the merging. Aaron, who do you want to do it? 04:21:47 Well, you know the code better than I. 04:22:07 but you know infogami better than I :-) 04:22:13 it's np, I'll port it 04:22:59 Hey, I've been on the 'Net for at least ten years... 04:23:12 is the infogami code stable now? 04:23:32 Should be. 04:24:53 I'm happy to help 04:26:04 -> #semplesh 04:31:13 sup rm 04:31:38 hehe 04:32:00 not bad - watching a flick with wife and friend 04:32:38 cool 04:32:39 you/ 04:32:39 ? 04:32:45 just finished watching one 04:33:12 Ugh, school starts again tomorrow 04:34:01 TODO: clean up room 04:34:46 oy 04:35:28 ddid mine this afternoon before guests 04:35:46 tough being a grownup ;-) 04:35:49 lol 04:35:51 sorry 04:36:52 I generally keep my room very tidy. 04:37:07 Becuase I get bored, so I clean stuff up. 04:37:12 I guess this is a sign I've been busy. 04:37:25 I never get that bored 04:40:16 I also clean keyboard lint while on telecons... 04:40:41 I don't see any lint in my keyboard 04:43:46 Well, I, um, "borrowed" the keyboard from someone else and they were very messy eaters. 04:43:54 ah 04:44:22 * AaronSw mutters something about stupid kids... 04:44:33 heh 04:44:53 when I was driving him around town, Cory asked me where I worked before IBM 04:45:08 when I said I was in school then, he said "you're just a punk kid!" 04:45:38 so you said, "you're just a punk sci-fi author"? 04:45:45 no, I said he was right 04:46:07 I'm surprised he didn't know that 04:46:38 * AaronSw looks up how digest auth works 04:47:20 I wish HTTP supported SASL so we could use SRP 04:47:32 * AaronSw looks for his deacronymizer 04:47:42 heh 04:48:07 Hmmmmm. 04:50:48 if I believed in reincarnation, I know I'd have Alzheimer's in my next life 04:51:28 There's still time left in this one... 04:52:23 then I could honestly tell the kids "I've forgotten more than you ever knew" :-) 04:53:23 lol 04:54:46 * wmf does some serious name-dropping on HTP 04:56:09 Heh! How'd you find that out? 04:56:23 saw a stream of them giving talks 04:57:20 it was interesting to see them promoting mostly the same ideas as in the 70s 05:41:35 wes, old? 05:41:38 lol 05:41:51 quiet, youngin' 05:41:51 I'm just a punk kid! 05:42:08 you're all punk kids! 05:42:19 i was online when you were in diapers! 05:42:25 (at least you, aaroin) 05:42:27 ;-) 05:42:30 hahahahahahaha 05:42:31 I was online before you, so there. 05:42:32 * wmf cranks up the offspring 05:42:59 well, ok 05:43:04 having children already? man, you're old 05:43:58 * wmf snickers 05:44:05 you were online at 6 aaron? 05:44:08 ;-) 05:44:15 Yep. 05:44:17 i knew you were a smarty pants but wow 05:44:20 lol 05:44:39 I'm serious, we had a dial-in to my Dad's office where we surfed the muds over ZModem and Telnet. 05:44:42 and he has the usenet posts to prove it! 05:44:48 i've seen 05:45:08 I still remember the ASCII art announcement for Mosaic... 05:45:28 hehee 05:45:31 reference? 05:45:32 i remember that 05:45:37 been a while ;-) 05:46:47 rm has quit (Remote closed the connection) 05:47:16 the nostalgia killed him 05:47:19 what'd I say[Interrobang] 05:47:54 rm_ (~chatzilla@ip68-2-102-26.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack 05:48:58 stupid moz crashed 05:49:12 heh: the INTERROBANG "expresses Modern Life's Incredibility." 05:50:11 Hmm... http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1993Jan29.122243.26454%40dxcern.cern.ch 05:50:21 heh, cool 05:50:44 weird url: 05:51:00 file://ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Web/xmosaic/xmosaic-0.5.tar.Z 05:52:04 heh, heh: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MARCA.93Dec22023055%40wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu 05:52:38 I can see the CNET headlines already 05:53:08 :-) 05:58:20 Heh: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MARCA.94Mar2193525%40wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu 05:59:47 ah, the announcement: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MARCA.93Mar14225600%40wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu 06:00:50 cool; first mention of IRC: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8772%40orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU 06:01:31 makes you wonder: why are we using the same sucky networks from back then... 06:02:00 becuase you weren't around to invent the plesh 06:02:16 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 06:02:21 good point 06:02:37 we owe it all to tav` and aaronsw 06:03:19 wow, first message from brewster to www-talk: http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9202181358.AA28643@quake.think.com 06:04:34 rm: and many others before them 06:05:02 and very many after us 06:05:55 Marc's first email: http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9211170421.AA03160@wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu 06:06:37 and his results: http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9211180324.AA05780@wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu 06:07:24 cool 06:08:23 rm_ has quit ("night night") 06:08:41 Heh: http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9212011552.AA01907@www3.cern.ch 06:09:14 lol! guido's first message: http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9212070007.AA16719.guido@voorn.cwi.nl 06:09:48 heh, a little mention of Python in there... 06:09:52 Indeed! 06:10:34 Ironically, Guido is explaining the purpose of typed links to DanC! 06:11:06 what's this about Jim's comment syntax in Tim's mail? 06:11:24 "Jim's comment system is neat, and I'd like to adopt it here too. 06:11:25 " 06:12:06 dunno 06:12:17 Hmm... http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9211271643.AA09646@njitgw.njit.edu and others 06:13:20 it's a shame that none of the links in those mails work :-) 06:13:41 They weren't Cool back then 06:14:51 TimBL, inviting people to work at CERN: "Geneva, Switzerland, has lakes and mountains and an international community. There is Alpine skiing an hour away and hill walking 20 minutes away. But these things are material :-)" - http://impressive.net/archives/www-talk/9211191713.AA00333@www3.cern.ch 06:16:55 Gotta run 06:18:51 * AaronSw is away: sleep 06:43:48 tansaku_sftwre_fcked has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:11:22 tansaku_sftwre_fcked (~sam@h133-225.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:12:02 quiet morning 15:28:25 redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 15:28:57 yo 15:29:27 yo yo yo 15:29:32 tunneling r00lz 15:29:37 heh 15:29:39 Heh 15:29:52 infogami.rdfapi is looking good 15:29:59 Cool 15:30:05 redmonk is now known as rm_busy 15:30:09 * AaronSw is away: school 15:36:31 Morbus (~Morbus@s102.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 15:38:43 quick, someone say something. 15:38:59 .google say something 15:39:01 say something: http://www.saysomethingsweet.com 15:39:07 mmkay. good. 15:39:40 hello 15:39:50 jeez, is the "show timestamps" ugly in Snak or what. 15:40:00 hey red. 15:40:08 'ello 15:40:15 yes, it;s ugly 15:40:22 well, that's dumb. 15:40:29 the cycle forward/backward key commands don't loop. 15:40:32 you're using snak too? 15:40:36 yes 15:40:38 i'm fiddling with the tabbed interface. 15:40:44 hm 15:40:53 and turned on timestamps, and now all my flipping text is way over there ;) 15:40:59 and moving the nick column doesn't help much. 15:41:39 hm. 15:41:45 my timestampas are only: 15:41:55 [8:43] my timestampas are only: 15:41:59 small 15:42:05 [time] 15:42:13 so it's not too bad 15:42:14 yeah, but there's still a huge ga... 15:42:19 hmm. lemme try again. 15:42:58 hmm. 15:43:05 well, it's small enough. 15:43:18 but if i try to make it smaller (catering to 00:00) it'll cut off the nick name. 15:46:05 ah well. 15:46:10 maybe i'll get used to it. 15:46:30 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 15:46:42 Morbus (~Morbus@s102.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 15:47:39 talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #swhack 15:47:50 fee fi fo 15:48:05 hey there, tiki tiki talli 15:48:10 yo Morbus 15:48:12 que pasa? 15:48:26 me llamo guacamole 15:48:37 no way! 15:48:40 that's my brother's name 15:48:42 si ;) 15:48:44 yeah? 15:48:52 that was my spanish name in seventh grade spanish class. 15:49:05 sevies suck 15:49:26 there is nothing lower in this world than a seventh grader, for some reason 15:49:33 at least, that's what i learned in junior high 15:49:37 heh. 15:50:44 Morbus, do you know any good iCalendar servers? 15:50:56 nope. 15:51:07 damn 15:51:14 htat's a problem in the free software world 15:58:39 rm_busy has quit ("stupid snak. must kill pref file") 15:59:47 redmonk (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 15:59:51 talli has left #swhack 15:59:57 ha! 15:59:59 take that, snak 16:00:08 hehehe 16:00:12 redmonk is now known as rm_busy 16:08:07 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 17:28:06 * AaronSw waves 17:30:15 why do you need timestamps in snak? just leave your mouse over the nick, and they pop up for you 17:38:21 "lex luthor would know that we know he's planning world destruction, so I cannot drink from the goblet nearest me" 17:38:21 { :Lex :knows { :Superman :knows { :Lex :plans { :Lex :destroy :World } } } } => { :Superman :noDrinkFrom :Goblet } 17:49:38 * rm_busy waves 17:49:59 lol 17:50:15 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 17:50:20 'ello 18:06:36 how's school aaron? 18:06:43 or is it ust not worht asking 18:06:49 (oy BTD) 18:31:52 rm_busy is now known as rm_back_from_twilight_zone 18:31:57 *whew* 18:32:08 it's been a busy morning here in the twilight zone 18:32:38 i got to work this morning and found two instances of my app had mysteriously decided to *BORK* on launch. 18:32:49 unfortunately, they were in auto-recover mode 18:33:11 so everytimee they blew chunks into the logs, the appserver re-started them 18:33:31 so this morning i find over *8000* empty log files in the log dir 18:34:08 and the appserver eating memory like i used to go through m&ms 18:34:30 sudo reboot 18:34:44 rm -fr *.log.* 18:34:48 *sigh* 18:35:18 then work on the appserver for a few hours wonderingg how conffig files can be mysteriously re-created in an old state 18:35:37 as if the appserver was reaching back in time to give me the borked (i love that word) version 18:35:41 just to spite me 18:36:09 i finally removed the offending host from the admin app's knowledge, and re-added it 18:36:17 at which point everything went rosy again 18:36:32 the sun came out 18:36:51 but there's a weird guy in black with an umbrella hiding behind a tree... 18:37:01 what a morning... 18:37:06 rm_back_from_twilight_zone is now known as rm_busy 18:52:48 head... hurts! 18:54:14 * sbp wonders if Aaron is around 18:58:56 hehe 18:59:12 hi sbp 19:51:53 * rm_busy wonders iff anyone is around 19:52:06 "iff"? heh 19:52:25 and if no-one is around, you don't wonder? 19:52:36 right 19:52:51 i only want to know iffmorbus is around ;-) 19:53:13 know what? 19:53:35 iffmorbus! get with the program. ;-) 19:53:45 sorry - it's been a crazy am 19:54:09 i'm not firing on all cylinders 20:01:39 buy some new spark plugs 20:02:08 i did, but the mountain dew is not helping 20:02:47 besides, the plugs don't help if your distributors busted 20:03:28 true 20:03:47 so how's life? 20:03:58 ploddingful 20:08:57 bummer 20:09:23 bummer/ 20:09:29 s/\//?/ 20:17:55 ploddingful 20:18:05 bummer 20:18:12 ploddingful is good! 20:18:42 found a new(ha!) chord prog last night 20:18:52 have to make a melody now 20:19:41 G Bm C (walk down low E) 20:19:41 Em D(F#) G 20:19:57 nothing amazing, but it was new to me 20:20:24 Hmm... 20:20:33 * sbp strums away, trying to find the right rhythm 20:21:18 1 2 3 4 20:21:54 G Bm C (down one fret on E) 20:22:00 1 2 3 4 20:22:24 Em D(F#) G ... 20:22:26 oops 20:22:30 doesn't line up 20:22:43 slow rythm 20:22:50 rhythm 20:23:07 Yep, I think I've got something 20:23:18 that's pretty neat. certainly needs a cute melody 20:23:32 just wish i had a freebie app i could record stuff on on the tibook 20:23:35 (os x) 20:23:59 melody: yeah 20:24:03 I came up with a little versey bit last night: (Capo 2nd) AMaj CMaj7 D9 Am7(+high G) 20:24:25 we should start a guitar club ;-) 20:24:33 :-) 20:24:34 i could use some fresh input ;-) 20:37:28 BTD? 20:37:39 Hi all. The new server code (1.0.31+maint2) is up on the testnet....pick your favorite server and use port 9001. Please give it a nice thrashing and let us know if you see any problems. Conversion soon. Thanks. 20:38:12 Bad Typing Day 20:38:23 ah 20:38:26 * AaronSw waves 20:38:34 * rm_busy waves 20:38:34 Aaron, did you scrunge N3Alternatives from Notation3? 20:38:41 scrunge? 20:38:52 I found the link in an email from TimBL to RDF Core. 20:38:57 ah 20:40:09 * rm_busy started an outline in OO 2.0 for guitar ideas 20:40:18 heh, heh, found it:- 20:40:18 [[[ 20:40:19 (If the ISO folks have used both such that ambiguity arises, I will 20:40:19 [make them] eat my hat ;-) 20:40:19 columns are good for guitar tabs ;-) 20:40:24 ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Mar/0234 20:44:59 there was something about - and _ in language or locale codes fairly recently 20:49:17 d0wn3r (~downer@d141-117-205.home.cgocable.net) has joined #swhack 20:49:17 Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:51:26 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 20:51:36 hey Morbus 20:52:05 deltab, can you remember where you saw that, at all? 20:52:21 in my mailbox - searching... 20:53:14 * rm_busy is not sure what prompted the comment 20:53:30 * rm_busy 's newbieness shows 20:53:49 [OLM] 20:57:05 aha - Subject: Using - or _ in language tags and/or locales 20:59:19 d0wn3r has quit () 20:59:35 Heh, I was just about to say hi too! 20:59:49 heh, heh 21:18:09 rm_busy is now known as _rm 21:18:09 <_rm> _rm is now known as rm_busy 21:18:35 rm_busy is now known as _rm 21:43:19 talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 21:43:28 AaronSw: you here? 21:43:34 yep 21:43:39 how's it going? 21:43:43 alright 21:44:01 what's up? 21:44:03 i gotta a question for you. not because i like you, but because you're unfortunately the only person that might know this 21:44:15 let me stress I DON'T LIKE YOU 21:44:20 ok, got it 21:44:23 ok, ready to answer my question/ 21:44:33 ? 21:44:36 yep 21:44:58 "why are you so annoying that I wouldn't like you?" 21:45:00 ok, do you know anyone working on RDF definitions for the icalendar spec? 21:45:07 yep 21:45:20 who might that be? 21:45:29 libby miller, mostly 21:45:38 .google rdf icalendar 21:45:39 rdf icalendar: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2001Aug/0003.html 21:45:52 very nice 21:46:05 i assume xena is a bot? 21:46:17 yep 21:46:30 very nice 21:46:39 thank you very much sir. i appreciate it 21:47:11 no problem 21:47:35 libby's online, might /msg libby 21:48:10 cool, thanks 21:48:22 do you know if anyone is working on building an icalendar server/ 21:48:23 ? 21:48:37 that does what? 21:49:01 group calendaring 21:49:19 kinda like an mta, only focusing on delivering scheduling and calendaring apps 21:49:51 i've heard a lot of reqeusts for one, but can't think of anyone who's building it 21:49:57 cool, thakns 21:50:11 * talli begins to ponder a new project... 21:50:17 thanks AaronSw. 21:50:23 sure. glad you like me :) 21:50:31 did i say that? 21:50:46 * AaronSw ducks 21:50:58 let me stress I [...] LIKE YOU 21:50:59 btw, i don;'t know how you might feel about this, but are you familiar with the open source now initiative at RedHat? 21:51:15 nope... link? 21:51:20 sbp: i don't like butt kissers. but i'll make an exception for you 21:51:27 http://www.redhat.com/opensourcenow 21:51:42 erm... I was quoting you, ya dumbwad 21:52:17 ok. 21:52:35 OSN is a program to get redhat in schools? 21:52:35 sbp: i no longer like you 21:52:40 AaronSw: yeah 21:52:41 heh, heh :-) 21:52:55 I'd rather not be a butt kisser than have you like me 21:53:21 careful, sbp, don't underestimate my power! 21:53:29 AaronSw: tell sbp about my power 21:53:35 he has power 21:53:46 well, Aaron did say there'd be some kind of immense explosion if you met tav... 21:53:56 tav??? 21:54:02 Ain El-Milkeen 21:54:06 i will destroy tav!!! 21:54:10 heh, heh 21:54:20 :archNemesisOf . 21:54:42 who is talli? 21:54:50 * Morbus sniffs. 21:55:08 "Gaim", apparently. I'm nonthewiser 21:55:14 Morbus: don't worry, he can have two 21:55:24 haha. sbp you will never know me! 21:55:27 AaronSw, i actually bought omni outliner today. 21:55:28 monotonicity! 21:55:41 heh, cool 21:55:43 the parallels with tav are spooky 21:55:45 anyway... 21:55:46 Gotta run 21:55:48 * talli is getting so obnoxious he may try and kick his own ass 21:56:09 anyway, thanks for the tips AaronSw 21:56:17 sure 21:56:22 sbp, Morbus: catch you guys (or girls) later 21:56:32 talli has left #swhack 21:57:01 <_rm> morbus: oo is coool 21:57:08 <_rm> 2.0 is a righteous upgrade 21:57:28 yeah, that's what made me move. 21:57:33 it added some features i wanted myself. 21:57:46 so i grabbed it today so i'd get a 9 dollar discount when 2.0 comes out ;) 21:57:56 <_rm> yeah - the alternate row colors is a biggee, as is column types 21:58:03 mmhmm. 21:58:08 hey, i can't get popups to work - can you? 21:58:11 <_rm> yeah 21:58:23 i define a column as a popup, but can't define them in the actual column info screen. 21:58:23 <_rm> go to the info panel 21:58:35 <_rm> yes you can - just hit return 21:58:41 <_rm> it will put in a new value 21:58:42 right, and when I try clicking in the white box that appears after going to duration, it doesn't give me the opportunity to. 21:58:45 ... 21:58:51 <_rm> hm. 21:58:57 <_rm> hang on 21:58:59 so, wait, i choose the popup, and then just hit "return"? 21:59:08 sad thing is, i'm not in front of my box right now. 21:59:16 i love its small footprint. its on all the time on my box ;) 21:59:22 and the notes feature rocks. 21:59:30 <_rm> yeah just hit return 21:59:46 <_rm> yeah 21:59:46 hmm. i'll try it when i get home. 21:59:49 <_rm> ok 22:01:19 <_rm> i turned off status check boxes, 22:01:34 right, i have them turned off too. 22:01:36 <_rm> then added a checkbox column with summary set to "calculate" 22:01:48 <_rm> and it worked the exact same way, but in it's own column 22:01:59 <_rm> i hate the checkboxes that folow the outline 22:02:07 <_rm> woohoo 22:02:08 i wish autonumbering woudl work smarter. 22:02:12 <_rm> yeah 22:02:17 i want autonumbering in its own column, not as part of the topic. 22:02:27 <_rm> hm. 22:02:35 <_rm> i see 22:07:42 Heh: 'This is not "yet another" Web services or Semantic Web workshop.' 22:08:47 <_rm> YAWS/SWW 22:18:32 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 22:29:21 tomc (~lambda@modem-2893.porcupine.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 22:31:06 hm, did robbb ever come on irc? 22:32:24 robbb? 22:32:57 robb beal 22:33:03 .google robb beal swhack 22:33:04 robb beal swhack: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/2001/12/02 22:33:50 ah 22:38:55 ooh! the commons just voted to ban foxhunting 22:39:14 :o)) 22:39:19 so democracy *does* work! :-) 22:40:04 I think I heard something recently about banning sexism in selling drinks. 22:40:37 That would neatly get rid of all that "Women Drink F***ing Free" stuff. Which is good. 22:40:56 now it moves to the Lords... that will be interesting 22:41:08 sexism: yeah 22:41:10 Heh, yes 22:41:57 Public pressure vs whatever the Lords believes it stands for. Or something. 22:42:30 indeed. Of course, on some occasions, the Lords actually correct dubious descisions by the commons... 22:42:57 but there are always going to be cases like this when you have to hope that the lords don't mess things up 22:43:32 it's a bit silly really; we vote for new people, and the old people move to the lords 22:43:36 Our systems are bizarre 22:43:50 Why are you against foxhunting? 22:43:57 yeah. although, I like the heriatage and eccenticity of it all :-) 22:44:08 Yes :) 22:44:16 *umm* 22:44:44 ... 22:45:41 Well, I think that when you measure it on the scale of dumbassed things that humans do, ripping up foxes as a substitute for gonads ranks quite high on the scale 22:45:47 Boxing is controversial, but vaguely defendable. Foxhunting's controversial. 22:47:51 in general, I am conservative about British heritage, and upper class anachronisms, so you can't catch me out on being too liberal. I want to keep the pound, I was against dissolving the lords, I think that we should keep the royal family. But foxhunting is just silly 22:49:19 * sbp is more neutral on the lords these days. Some of the exceptional cases get too much press, IMO 22:50:19 *hmm* I don't mind esoteric bits of heritage, but if they're getting in the way, replacing them seems like a good idea. 22:50:25 agreed 22:50:40 I wonder if there are any fairly-elected governments out there. 22:51:15 fair meaning proportional representation, condorcet, etc. 22:51:21 so the argument is over whether or not the lords are getting in the way. I have to admit that they probably do, but there are still the exceptions. I guess if we hadn't have had the lords in the first place, no one would have said "ooh, lets have a house of lords too!", so the reasons for keeping it seem pretty silly 22:51:38 fairly-elected: who was it that proved that there's no such thing as a perfect democracy? :-) 22:52:31 democracy's a pretty crap system IMHO :) 22:52:32 what's a perfect democracy? 22:52:44 ...except for all others which have been tried from time to time 22:52:45 it was good 2000 years ago. 22:52:52 Aaron: sorry, I don't know to any papers to cite... 22:53:11 tomc, what's better than democracy? 22:53:29 I don't think that people actually contemplate and realise the full ramifications of their votes, which has always interested me. Do people really know why they're voting? I reckon most of them just flip a coin 22:53:55 two party system, heads for the current leader, tails for the opposition :-) 22:54:06 There was a fray piece where some guy said something that really irritated me... 22:54:08 * tomc applauds 22:54:24 He said that he was sure some judges did good jobs, and some needed to be booted, but he didn't know which ones did, so he picked randomly. 22:54:36 ugh! 22:54:59 fray? 22:55:03 so he actually said that he knew that there was a distinction in quality, but chose to ignore it? What an idiot! 22:55:17 {fray} - fray.{com, org, net} 22:55:35 oh 22:56:00 OTOH, we all make mistakes 22:56:10 Ah, here's the story: http://www.fray.com/criminal/vote/ 22:56:42 "Yogic flying sounds like fun, so I voted for the Natural Law Party at every chance. In Illinois half the ballot is a list of judges, for each of which we vote whether to retain or not. I had no idea, but I was pretty sure that A) they weren't all bad and B) they weren't all good. So the odd-numbered ones I voted to retain; the others I kicked to the curb." 22:57:05 heh! "Yogic flying sounds like fun, so I voted for the Natural Law Party at every chance." 22:57:17 man, you always get there before I do 22:57:47 yogic flying looks very fun, although painful without the right padding 22:57:52 now that I read it in context, I think he was just being comical 22:57:59 and apologize for my earlier slur :-) 22:58:09 painful without padding: tell me about it 22:59:08 can someone send me a test email? 22:59:50 where? 23:00:08 me@aaronsw.com 23:00:13 I miss xena's mail service... 23:00:15 sent 23:00:18 thanks 23:03:34 * AaronSw gets emails. Thanks 23:03:51 * AaronSw looks for 10c... 23:04:00 Ah, deltab has changed his email. 23:04:44 10c: heh, heh 23:04:57 err email address 23:07:23 Man, RCS is expensive! 23:07:28 <_rm> hhe 23:07:41 <_rm> yeah, either 800 bucks or 40 23:08:20 23:08:30 <_rm> 23:08:46 . 23:08:49 or, rather... 23:09:00 { } . 23:09:21 heh :o) 23:09:38 <_rm> heh 23:10:58 <_rm> _rm is now known as rm 23:11:04 yay i'm rm again 23:11:26 mv _rm rm 23:11:33 i'm a full visible member again 23:11:39 (i can be imported!) 23:11:42 heh, heh 23:11:47 from redmonk import rm 23:11:56 dir(rm) 23:12:28 __drink__, __eat__, code, chat 23:12:36 __sleep__ 23:12:37 heh, heh 23:12:45 blog 23:12:58 so, I guess you're currently in... 23:13:01 while 1: 23:13:06 rm.chat() 23:13:06 http://www.redmonk.net/index/2002/03/18#item1081 23:13:17 if rm.tired(): break 23:13:17 while 1: 23:13:42 rm.chat() && rm.code() && rm.blog() 23:15:49 * sbp listens to "Dear Mr. Fantasy" 23:16:27 Morbus (~Morbus@s87.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 23:16:33 * rm listens to heather noble (sp?) doing "We Can Work It Out" 23:17:12 Heather Nova 23:17:17 ah 23:17:18 cool 23:18:44 must ... get... something... done! 23:18:51 I actually haven't heard her version... what's it like? 23:18:55 I've heard that it sucks 23:19:06 well... 23:19:07 yeah 23:19:11 :-) 23:19:24 * sbp won't bother getting it, then 23:19:32 my co-worker has about 7 gb of mp3's that just play in shuffle mode all day long 23:19:37 Morbus.printTodoList() 23:19:53 heh, i'd get kicked for flodding. 23:19:57 heh 23:19:57 flooding too even. 23:20:02 nah, sbp: 23:20:06 .google flodding 23:20:07 flodding: http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Research/LUC/ChinaFood/data/water/wat_5a_m.htm 23:20:10 print Morbus.toDoList() 23:20:12 7GB? neat 23:20:16 yeah 23:20:23 all kinds of stuff 23:20:24 rm: yeah, I was just about to suggest that my method sucked 23:20:29 or more likely... 23:20:48 print "\n".join(Morbus.toDoList()) 23:20:57 for the first hour, I will do email! 23:21:01 yes, yes, email it is! 23:21:13 print '\n'.join(Morbus.toDoList()).strip() 23:21:30 * Morbus gets nekkid. 23:21:31 i don't thinkstripping is invloved 23:21:32 Hmm... not necessary, in fact 23:21:34 though i could be wrong 23:21:39 nekkid? not on IRC, bub! 23:21:48 no, you're right. just me going a bit nuts 23:22:42 * rm is going to shave his head again tonight 23:22:59 it's getting long (@ 1.2 cm) 23:24:14 1.2cm? wow, your head must get so hot in summer... 23:25:21 I took the Morbus approach to hair-length 23:25:36 mine is too thick for that 23:25:46 the Morbus approach. heh. 23:25:54 thick: bummer... 23:26:34 i'm unsubscribed from four more mailing lists today. 23:26:35 for just about every procedure, there happens to be a Morbus approach. It's just part of the way in which the Universe is constructed, AFAICT 23:27:12 Homer: Kids, there are three ways to do things! There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way! 23:27:17 Bart: Isn't that the wrong way? 23:27:22 Homer: Yeah... but faster! 23:28:04 rm: hear about Buck's trial? 23:29:18 waaaah: http://www.disobey.com/dnn/archives/2002/03/index.shtml#001303 23:29:37 the fuck. 23:29:40 goddamit. 23:29:45 the stupid links are all messed up. 23:29:46 Hmm... http://www.bbc.co.uk/choice/60seconds/entertainment/180302/rem.shtml 23:29:46 grrr. 23:29:59 [[[ 23:30:00 The prosecution claim at the time he said "I am REM and I can make up a story that I was assaulted". 23:30:00 ]]] 23:30:52 er... wow, that's really smegged, Morb 23:31:01 yeah, i'm fixing it now. 23:31:07 there's not supposed to be an archives dir 23:31:44 "I fancy myself" - Morbus Iff in http://www.disobey.com/dnn/archives/2002/03/index.shtml#001300 23:32:00 heehee 23:32:01 yeah, refresh bucko ;) 23:32:07 only mstipe could do that 23:32:22 damn! 23:32:29 just remove archives/ 23:32:29 I should have archived it 23:32:51 only mstipe: heh, indeed 23:32:51 http://www.disobey.com/dnn/2002/03/index.shtml#001300 23:32:53 damn buck looks oooooold 23:34:02 rm has left #swhack 23:34:16 rm (~steve@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 23:34:21 that was weird 23:34:31 accidently cmd-w'ed the window 23:34:33 i hate that 23:34:43 mIRC propmts you 23:34:53 and prompts 23:35:17 go, and propmtly! 23:38:01 hey cool! 23:38:02 http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html 23:38:07 python logging 23:38:11 via daily python url 23:38:17 can i chump it? 23:38:21 @ http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html 23:38:30 B: A Logging System for Python from rm 23:38:43 B| Python Logging tool 23:39:10 B:like log4j... 23:39:15 B:but not 23:39:33 i think i broke it 23:39:37 damn! 23:39:45 should have RTFMed 23:39:53 help! 23:45:41 title: B:|Title; comment: B::comment 23:45:59 ah 23:46:05 :o) 23:46:17 now everyone can see me flail in the logs 23:46:30 oh well. humility is good for the soul 23:46:58 There is honour in flailing. 23:47:54 heh 23:48:05 B:|Python Logging tool 23:48:07 titled item B 23:48:17 B::like log4j... 23:48:20 commented item B 23:48:21 B::but not 23:48:23 commented item B 23:48:40 much better 23:48:56 * rm salvages last scraps of honour 23:50:02 would the themesong of the Python Logging System be "I'm a lumberjack" / 23:50:28 B::Would the theme song of the Python Logging System be "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm ok"? 23:50:31 commented item B 23:50:51 yes! 23:52:10 heh 23:52:13 * tomc laughs :o)) 23:52:59 sbp has changed the topic to: Would the theme song of the Python Logging System be "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm ok"? 23:53:14 ;) 23:53:35 * sbp bows to rm for what may be the most whimsical joke of the season 23:54:18 ooh, perfect encryption in Python:- 23:54:19 [[[ 23:54:19 from sys import*;t=p=1;s=stdout;[i,j]=map(lambda f: open(f, 'r'), argv[1:3]) 23:54:19 while(t and p):t,p=i.read(1),j.read(1);t and p and s.write(chr(ord(t)^ord(p))) 23:54:25 ]]] - http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/crypto-curiosa.html 23:54:48 er... if you have some truly random data, that is 23:55:02 is that encrypted?? 23:55:13 * rm bows graciously 23:55:21 is what encrypted? the Python? no, it's just straight Python 23:55:22 see what a little humility can do for you? 23:55:26 heh, heh 23:55:30 heh 23:56:33 * sbp makes it a u script 23:56:40 might come in handy one day 23:57:01 cool:- 23:57:02 $ u otp blargh.txt MyFile.txt 23:57:02 ; 23:57:02 zT)H 23:57:02 h* 23:57:02 a}Z 23:57:05 [EOF] 23:57:26 it's rather complicated-looking Python, was my point. 23:57:38 that's all :-) 23:58:00 yep. Python isn't always readable, y'know :-) 23:58:08 that's because it's squeezed onto two lines 23:58:08 map and lambda worked wonders 23:59:08 [[[ 23:59:08 from sys import * 23:59:08 t = p = 1 23:59:08 [i, j] = map(lambda f: open(f, 'r'), argv[1:3]) 23:59:08 while(t and p): 23:59:08 t, p = i.read(1), j.read(1) 23:59:10 t and p and stdout.write(chr(ord(t)^ord(p))) 23:59:12 ]]] 23:59:19 hehe 23:59:56 6 more emails to go!