00:11:26 Morbus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:18:42 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:19:10 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-5-132.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 00:22:49 GabeW (~gwachob@adsl-216-101-18-99.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 00:42:19 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:43:06 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-5-132.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 00:58:57 bitsko (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 00:59:44 * bitsko has some XML file scrolled halfway up the left window of my screen -- it looks like a morphing screensaver gone bad out of the corner of my eye 01:00:17 lol 01:00:24 it has a very "flowing" indent for the portion displayed 01:00:36 Everyone knows xscreensaver stands for XMLscreensaver, right? ;) 01:00:41 heh 01:01:21 some people just don't get URIs 01:01:35 [ahem] 01:01:43 .seen wkearney99 01:01:44 wkearney99 seen leaving #rdfig [ ] ~ 1 day(s) 2 hr(s) 58 min(s) 25 sec(s) ago 01:01:49 I've made excellent progress with Jeff Barr and Bill Kearney on admin 01:01:56 That's cool. 01:02:23 but we go backwards every few steps, which is probably normal, but frustrating ;) 01:02:23 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:02:55 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-5-132.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 01:03:04 like a barn dance? 01:03:22 :) 01:04:40 sometimes it's hard to tell where it's difficult because it's a paradigm shift and where it's difficult because the tech really is obtuse 01:05:01 tech being namespaces, URIs, and of course RDF 01:05:15 Zakim (~swhack-br@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:20 Zakim! 01:05:22 zakim, where is +44? 01:05:22 country code 44 is United Kingdom 01:05:26 duh 01:05:31 Heh, heh 01:05:39 Zakim, where is 847? 01:05:40 North American dialing code 1.847 is Illinois 01:05:47 * bitsko got his new 40GB drive today, yippee!!! 01:05:50 woo! 01:05:51 * sbp watches a launch 01:06:06 Zakim, where is this launch? 01:06:06 sorry, AaronSw, I do not understand your question 01:06:55 so this weekend I get to reinstall RH7.2 and get rid of the slowly dying hard drive 01:07:20 Zakim has lots of cool features. 01:07:24 Zakim, please drop sbp 01:07:24 sorry, AaronSw, I don't know what conference this is 01:07:27 ;) 01:07:39 Zakim, are you busy? 01:07:39 I'm listening on #swhack 01:07:40 Idle mins: #swhack=0 01:07:48 Zakim, who are you? 01:07:49 I don't understand your question, bitsko. 01:07:49 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:07:52 heh 01:07:58 who does Zakim belong to? 01:08:03 Zakim, what are you? 01:08:03 I don't understand your question, bitsko. 01:08:12 Zakim, is a W3C teleconference bridge 01:08:12 I don't understand 'is a W3C teleconference bridge', AaronSw. Try /msg Zakim help 01:08:18 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-5-132.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 01:08:21 Zakim, are you a funky bot? 01:08:21 I don't understand your question, GabeW. 01:08:24 I think he's named after a bridge in Massachusetts. 01:08:32 He does cool telecon stuff. 01:08:46 like SIP stuff? 01:08:52 .acronym sip 01:08:53 sip: Savings Investment Plan, Serial Interface Protocol, Single Inline Package, Scanner Interface Processor, School Improvement Plan, SCSI Interlock Protocol, Security Improvement Process, Segment Interface Protocol, Self-Inspection Program, Separation Incentive Pay, Service Improvement Program, Session Initiation Protocol, Session Invitation Protocol (Internet conferencing, telephony), Shelter 01:08:54 In Place, Ship In Place, Shut-In Pressure, Signal/Image Processing, Simferopol, Ukraine - Simferopol (Airport Code), Simulated Input Processor, SINCGARS Improvement Program 01:09:06 Session Initiation Protocol 01:09:12 so Zakim runs a conferencing bridge from IRC? that's cool 01:09:31 Yeah, he does ANI and number-to-name mappings, mutings and stuff like that 01:09:37 its call control from the IETF world - a HTTP-like protocol for setting up and doing neat things with media streams 01:09:48 Neat, don't think it does anything like that. 01:09:57 are we talking real telecom, or something else? 01:10:08 yeah, there is some SIP-CGI interface, so you can write your answsering machine with CGI 01:10:11 Zakim, :-) 01:10:11 I'm glad that smiley is there, AaronSw 01:10:28 Zakim, 650 01:10:29 I don't understand '650', GabeW. Try /msg Zakim help 01:10:33 Zakim, what is 650 01:10:34 I don't understand 'what is 650', GabeW. Try /msg Zakim help 01:10:39 Zakim, where is 650 01:10:39 GabeW, I do not see a party named 'where'. If you meant to ask a question you need to add '?' 01:10:43 Zakim, where is 650? 01:10:44 North American dialing code 1.650 is California 01:11:02 Zakim, where is towson? 01:11:07 launch: the ESA was launching an Ariane-5. Seems to have gone well 01:11:10 sorry, GabeW, I do not understand your question 01:11:18 he just does the one way 01:11:21 oh 01:11:30 Zakim, where is 650-592? 01:11:30 sorry, GabeW, I do not understand your question 01:12:01 just knows area codes 01:12:08 area codes -> state 01:12:16 Zakim, who's here? 01:12:16 sorry, GabeW, I don't know what conference this is 01:12:18 oh, country codes too 01:12:29 zakim, list conferences 01:12:29 I see no active conferences 01:12:32 Morbus (~Morbus@s126.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 01:12:48 unfortunately, i don't have access to the real zakim bridge 01:12:58 so i just pointed it at the w3c website, heh heh 01:13:30 I don't understand what Zakim does 01:14:04 zakim, please announce that you're are cool 01:14:04 not authorized, AaronSw 01:14:26 Gabe, he's more useful when he's connected to a telecon bridge. 01:14:35 zakim, stats 01:14:35 Sorry, AaronSw, no statistics yet 01:14:40 I don't understand being connected to a telecon bridge 01:14:53 do you know what a telecon is? it's british for a conference call 01:15:02 a telecon bridge is the thing that runs the conference call 01:15:09 yeah, I know that 01:15:15 but how does a bot interact with a telecon bridge? 01:15:36 zakim tells you who's connected, lets you mute and unmute people, knock them off, give them nicks, keep track of the agenda and the speaker's queue 01:15:40 q+ GabeW 01:15:40 * Zakim sees GabeW on the speaker queue 01:15:46 a+ Explain Zakim 01:15:52 agenda+ Explain Zakim 01:15:52 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added 01:16:13 ah 01:16:23 so not telecon in the sense of a *voice* call? 01:16:28 yes, a voice call 01:16:37 but the w3c has a tradition of supplementing voice calls with irc 01:16:44 to take notes, and raise hands, and such 01:16:45 * Zakim sees GabeW, To, Take, Notes on the speaker queue 01:16:51 heh 01:16:55 * AaronSw raises hand 01:16:55 * Zakim sees GabeW, To, Take, Notes, AaronSw on the speaker queue 01:16:57 q= 01:16:57 AaronSw, if you meant to query the queue, please say 'q?'; if you meant to replace the queue, please say 'queue= ...' 01:17:02 queue= 01:17:03 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 01:17:05 q? 01:17:06 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 01:17:11 Zakim is pretty clean Perl code, if I might say so 01:17:15 queue=AaronSW 01:17:15 * Zakim sees AaronSW on the speaker queue 01:17:20 q? 01:17:20 * Zakim sees AaronSW on the speaker queue 01:17:27 * AaronSw lowers hand 01:17:27 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 01:17:44 ok, so the bridge associates voice lines with the identity of the people on those voice lines? 01:17:45 bitsko, cool. 01:17:53 GabeW, Zakim does 01:17:59 ahhhhh 01:18:03 it'll say 1.847.xxx.yyy has joined 01:18:04 * Morbus raises hand 01:18:04 * Zakim sees Morbus on the speaker queue 01:18:13 I am 1.847 01:18:17 and then it opens or mutes a voice channel on the bridge appropriately 01:18:21 right 01:18:24 ah 01:18:31 so the bot runs the bridge, basically 01:18:33 the URL in the help is not accessible to us non-W3C people :( 01:18:39 yeah 01:18:39 * bitsko -> dinner 01:18:40 * Morbus lowers hand 01:18:40 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 01:18:46 * GabeW raises hand 01:18:46 * Zakim sees GabeW on the speaker queue 01:18:49 i should send them an email 01:18:51 * GabeW shakes his booty 01:19:09 * GabeW pontificates at the microphone 01:21:18 chair acks GabeW 01:21:18 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 01:21:25 Zakim, mute GabeW 01:21:25 sorry, AaronSw, I don't know what conference this is 01:21:40 * AaronSw emails Ralph about the URL being inacessible 01:21:41 Zakim, where are you? 01:21:41 I don't understand your question, sbp. 01:21:49 go 01:22:22 Zakim, are you busy? 01:22:22 I'm listening on #swhack 01:22:22 Idle mins: #swhack=0 01:22:23 Zakim, do you understand my question man, is it hopeless and forelorn? 01:22:23 I don't understand your question, sbp. 01:22:35 Zakim, ;) 01:22:35 I'm glad that smiley is there, AaronSw 01:23:11 zakim is built on the logger code, but he doesn't seem to know how to log 01:23:15 which is weird, since all the logging options are still there 01:23:36 as is most of the code 01:23:43 Zakim, bye 01:23:43 Zakim has left #swhack 01:23:46 Zakim (~swhack-br@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:23:55 zakim, join #rdfig 01:23:56 I don't understand 'join #rdfig', AaronSw. Try /msg Zakim help 01:24:20 Zakim, do the funky chicken 01:24:20 I don't understand 'do the funky chicken', GabeW. Try /msg Zakim help 01:25:52 agenda? 01:25:53 * Zakim sees nothing on the agenda 01:25:53 Zakim, close the conferance 01:25:53 Zakim, end the conferance 01:25:53 I don't understand 'close the conferance', Morbus. Try /msg Zakim help 01:25:53 I don't understand 'end the conferance', Morbus. Try /msg Zakim help 01:25:55 Zakim, end the conference 01:25:56 I don't understand 'end the conference', Morbus. Try /msg Zakim help 01:26:11 agenda+ Explain Zakim 01:26:12 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added 01:26:14 agenda? 01:26:14 * Zakim sees 1 item on the agenda: 01:26:14 * Zakim 1. Explain Zakim 01:26:28 Zakim, clear the agenda 01:26:28 agenda cleared 01:26:38 Zakim, ping me in 5 minutes 01:26:38 ok, AaronSw 01:28:07 we love zakim 01:28:45 gotta run 01:28:48 -AaronSw 01:31:02 bitsko has quit ("Leaving") 01:31:37 AaronSw, you asked to be pinged at this time 01:31:44 is Zakim python? 01:32:12 whoa, that was five minuteS? 01:32:12 man, my life is wasting away 01:34:58 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 01:58:08 hazmat has left #swhack 02:15:27 Zakim has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:30:37 monokrom, perl 02:30:40 err Morbus, perl 02:31:34 Perl, man, *Perl*! 02:33:23 right, perl ;) 02:37:40 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 02:37:59 hmm? 02:38:03 sorry. i didn't hear ya. 02:38:04 what's up? 02:38:15 swhack! 02:38:52 planethack! 02:46:29 wmf! 02:48:35 AaronSw! 02:48:58 wmf, LGPL? 02:49:39 what you say? 02:49:53 all your code are linked with us! 02:51:28 you have no chance to get source code, make your time? 02:52:25 I see Intel rediscovered the location manager 02:52:58 i guess it's the all your base are belong to freedom vs. all your adoption rates are equal to 0 02:53:01 choice 02:53:15 so, uh, what *are* you talking about? 02:53:26 Heh. 02:53:38 Zooko wants me to pick a license for PyChord, so I'm doing license research 02:54:03 ah 02:54:09 didn't we kinda agree to use LGPL for Plex stuff? 02:54:17 LGPL is good, X is better 02:54:43 I assume you mean Expat? 02:54:51 X11 02:55:35 It's got that funny advertising clause. 02:55:44 really? ok, MIT then 02:55:51 We call that Expat now. 02:56:03 expat is an XML parser, not a license 02:56:13 MIT is a university. 02:56:24 "Expat license. 02:56:25 This is a simple, permissive non-copyleft free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL. It is sometime ambiguously referred to as the MIT License." 02:56:28 - 02:56:31 - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html 02:56:40 the MIT license is older than the expat license, but whatever 02:56:47 At least expat only has one license, MIT has like twenty. 02:56:57 you know, software is like sex. it's better when Stallman isn't involved 02:57:04 lol 02:57:27 I think tav would disagree... ;) 02:57:36 let's not go there 02:58:22 You're really a expat/mit/x11 booster? You disappoint me. 02:58:53 I used to be into the copyleft thing, but I've changed 02:59:09 It's those IBM mind-control drugs! I knew it! 02:59:20 welp, i've done too much work. 02:59:25 time to veg out in front of the ps2. 02:59:26 I'm not sure why you care about my opinion anyway 02:59:26 night all.l 02:59:35 'night 02:59:41 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 02:59:50 re IBM, hey! we're working on releasing some code. GPLed, even! 02:59:57 Oooh. 03:04:55 Hm, the LGPL seems sorta C-centric 03:06:30 and section 6 is sorta weird 03:06:52 oh, i guess part c isn't so bad 03:09:21 actually, it is rather problematic 03:09:34 there's always the MPL 03:09:43 that's what zooko suggested 03:09:52 it seems to have more random provisions 03:10:10 my only concern about the MPL is the upgrade clause 03:11:25 heh, if i use the MPL netscape can come out with new versions of my software! 03:11:42 yep, sort of 03:12:34 chuckle: "The Visual Display of Quantitative XML" 03:12:51 .google "The Visual Display of Quantitative XML" 03:12:52 "The Visual Display of Quantitative XML": http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/02/27/visual 03:13:03 wow, google is fast 03:13:36 Hm, xena needs to stop deleting the trailing / 03:17:58 it's sort of funny you can't change the LGPL 03:18:22 it's also annoying, since i can't distribute it under LGPL - section 6 03:18:22 who says you can't change it? 03:18:30 The FSF 03:18:39 """ 03:18:43 Copyright (C) 1991, 1999 Free Software Foundation, Inc. 03:18:45 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA 03:18:45 Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies 03:18:46 of this license document, but changing it is not allowed. 03:18:46 """ 03:18:52 and you listen to them? live a little - change things - see what happens 03:19:00 Heh, heh 03:19:14 what about if I create a meta-document and put that one inside 03:19:14 * AaronSw puts modified versions on Napster 03:19:26 AaronSw: what did I tell you about Stallman? 03:19:37 not to have sex with him? 03:19:42 when does it stop being their original document and start being your document that has a little bit of their stuff in 03:19:47 lol 03:19:58 well that, but also to keep him out of your software 03:20:14 you just need to modify the license but then call is the ALLGPL 03:20:15 don't worry, i couldn't get a license for that 03:20:24 (to wmf) 03:20:24 ASLGPL I mean 03:20:47 I think they just don't want you changing what LGPL means 03:21:10 and it'd make the code sorta bloated too. "Why is your program so big?" "Well, we had to include a copy of stallman with it." 03:21:21 heh 03:21:36 it could work with the right compression utility 03:21:54 I suppose, certainly the sentient-life-form mime type leaves a lot of room for compression 03:22:40 monokrom has quit ("It ain't easy bein greasy") 03:22:41 see RFC 1437 03:23:49 it'd be neat - you could have a copy of yourself on DVD 03:24:03 although after what happened to that poor rat... 03:24:07 and you could lose weight at the same time 03:24:13 heh, heh 03:24:32 "I lost 400 pounds on the LZW compression diet!" 03:24:57 "Unfortunately, I only weighed 300 pounds to start with..." 03:25:32 who said that computers never foget to carry the one? 03:26:29 wow, the Python license has a persistent Handle URN, but the handle resolution server is down. 03:26:58 heh. URN "persistence" strikes again 03:27:00 oh, it's back up now 03:28:40 hazmat (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 03:28:47 python has an insane license 03:30:53 what is tav's real name? 03:31:04 i don't know if i can say 03:31:24 just do a whois on any of his domains 03:31:34 good idea 03:31:44 i don't think that works 03:31:49 it doesn't 03:31:53 AaronSw has obviously been brainwashed by the esp empire 03:32:06 Administrative Contact: 03:32:06 Tav _ tav@espnow.com 03:32:07 ESP Worldwide Ltd 03:32:14 ah, he changed it 03:32:16 Tav _ is not his real name, I can tell you that. 03:32:38 ah, his real name is here: http://cge.espra.net/?page=news 03:33:09 altho i've already pissed tav off enough, so i'm not sure what the harm in saying it is 03:33:23 I was about to point to that 03:34:07 he's done a pretty good job of erasing his name from the web though 03:34:09 :) , ok, he's playing footloose on zope3-dev with his name, just curious if i should call him out, but i think i won't. 03:34:16 Heh, heh 03:34:29 he gave his name at this zope meeting: http://www.portalux.com/nnl/documents/zope-meeting/list 03:34:34 I'm not sure what his thing is about his name 03:34:56 i don't think you want to know 03:35:34 statute of limitations hasn't expired yet? :-) 03:35:49 heh, heh 03:36:25 its pretty hard to erase your name if you particpate much in open source dev. 03:36:31 why's that? 03:36:56 whoo, it's march on zope.org and you know what that means... 03:36:58 mailman emails! 03:37:01 :) 03:37:04 heh 03:37:26 i don't see any messages from tav in http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2002-February/thread.html 03:37:36 the irc channel 03:37:41 ah 03:39:56 whoa, guido is on irc! 03:40:03 that makes two famous people on OPN 03:40:46 yah, it was cool, when guido showed up yesterday. i got an email from him yesterday regarding a question i asked on irc. 03:40:49 * hazmat blushes 03:40:51 ;) 03:40:59 Heh. 03:41:31 i want to see some guido dancing videos 03:41:47 I think the SAML developers need a swattack 03:42:07 .acronym saml 03:42:08 saml: Security Assertions Markup Language (Oasis), Send And Mail, Standard Army Management Language 03:42:40 any recommendations on trust metric algorithms? 03:42:51 how many are there? 03:42:58 all i know of is pymetric 03:43:06 (i.e. advogato/ford-faulkerson) 03:44:12 i looked at pymmetry, buts it not very scalable as an implementation i'm not sure if i like the algorithm either... there are lots of papers on trust metrics / collaborative filtering. 03:44:35 What's it for? 03:45:58 a good implementation could be used for lots of things 03:46:01 SATN is on a roll these days 03:46:11 product recommendations on the python-repository 03:46:15 ah 03:46:18 ecommerce recommendations ala amazon 03:46:32 i'm going to need a trust metric soon 03:46:33 tav (intrigued@host213-121-126-202.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 03:46:37 mwahaha! 03:46:38 selection of moderators 03:46:43 in a community system. 03:46:45 hey tav 03:46:48 who needs moderator when you have a trust metric? 03:46:59 hmz, would appreciate it if you wouldn't put my name anywhere. /me watches as wmf blogs it 03:47:06 well moderators is a bad word, more adminstrator 03:47:07 wow, he's fast 03:47:25 ok 03:47:29 ok 03:47:35 aargh, entourage has gone bonkers 03:47:39 thanks 03:47:51 tav, who tipped you off? 03:48:00 you appearing in #zope3-dev ;p 03:48:05 no, I mean ok, I blogged it :-) 03:48:14 do'h! 03:48:16 heh! 03:48:35 ;) 03:48:55 .google tav's real name 03:48:57 tav's real name: http://www.zombienation.force9.co.uk/us/wedding.html 03:49:13 fuck 03:49:15 AaronSw has changed the topic to: We know tav's real name 03:49:16