IRC log of swhack on 2002-02-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:05:09 [kmacleod]
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00:27:08 [sbp]
Galahad?
00:27:26 [sbp]
Hmm... xena
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01:04:36 [AaronSw]
I love how they cut out the background from Morb's photo
01:04:43 [AaronSw]
hm, it says "kevin hemenway"
01:06:51 [sbp]
yeah. There was some talk about using "Morbus"
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01:28:09 [AaronSw]
ugh, even the thing we bought doesn't work with debain
01:28:37 [Morbus]
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01:29:32 [sbp]
wb Morbus
01:29:46 [Morbus]
* Morbus grunts
01:29:49 [Morbus]
just upgraded to mt 2.0 on dnn
01:31:14 [sbp]
how did it go?
01:31:58 [Morbus]
welp, the upg went fine. i know of a couple of things that are broken, but its functional. its private beta, of course.
01:34:04 [tansaku1a]
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01:40:37 [Morbus]
woo hoo!
01:41:05 [Morbus]
AaronSw: 10.1.3 is out.
01:41:09 [AaronSw]
whoo!
01:41:14 [Morbus]
[[[
01:41:15 [Morbus]
hmmm... I kernel panicked on install and had to hard reboot (complete
01:41:15 [Morbus]
system freeze). Everything *seems* okay, but, that's a little sketchy to
01:41:15 [Morbus]
say the least.
01:41:15 [Morbus]
]]]
01:41:32 [Morbus]
* Morbus beings to dl.
01:41:33 [Morbus]
;)
01:41:37 [AaronSw]
heh
01:42:03 [Morbus]
[[[
01:42:03 [Morbus]
Update 10.1.3 delivers enhancements that improve the reliability of Mac OS X applications, important security features and includes new and updated support for a variety of Digital Hub peripheral devices. Specific updates include:
01:42:04 [Morbus]
CD Disc Recording Peripherals:
01:42:05 [Morbus]
- Expanded support for QPS, EZQuest, LaCie, Yamaha, MCE Technologies and Sony devices
01:42:06 [Morbus]
Image Capture and iPhoto:
01:42:06 [Morbus]
- Improved support for several digital camera models from Canon, Kodak and Sony
01:42:06 [Morbus]
Graphics and OpenGL Improvements:
01:42:08 [Morbus]
- DVD Playback on external VGA displays on PowerBook G4
01:42:12 [Morbus]
- PowerBook video mirroring will be on by default when connecting to a new display
01:42:12 [Morbus]
- Improvements for iTunes when the full screen visualizer is used
01:42:14 [Morbus]
Networking and Security Improvements:
01:42:15 [AaronSw]
woo: WebDAV support for Digest authentication
01:42:17 [Morbus]
- Login authentication support for LDAP and Active Directory services
01:42:18 [Morbus]
- OpenSSH version 3.0.2p1
01:42:20 [Morbus]
- WebDAV support for Digest authentication
01:42:23 [Morbus]
- Mail includes support for SSL encryption
01:42:24 [Morbus]
]]]
01:42:33 [AaronSw]
TMI ;)
01:42:34 [AaronSw]
woo: WebDAV support for Digest authentication
01:42:36 [Morbus]
:)
01:42:42 [AaronSw]
cool: Mail includes support for SSL encryption
01:43:11 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw tries to compile this crazy tulip driver
01:43:32 [Morbus]
you had to mod it?
01:43:40 [Morbus]
tulip's always worked outta the box for my card.s
01:43:41 [AaronSw]
huh?
01:43:52 [AaronSw]
yeah, apparently this is a bleeding edge card. ugh
01:44:00 [Morbus]
um, the tulip ethernet driver?
01:44:04 [AaronSw]
yeah
01:44:06 [Morbus]
ah
01:44:20 [AaronSw]
pff:
01:44:20 [AaronSw]
tulip.c:3249: `NETIF_MSG_RXFILTER' undeclared (first use in this function)
01:51:58 [AaronSw]
this sucks
01:58:47 [Morbus]
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02:33:55 [AaronSw]
hm, didn't notice tav join
02:34:05 [AaronSw]
.seen tav` 4
02:34:05 [xena]
tav` seen in Galahad saying: [ login 'fdRv)Ëéü§òô7튴­òj' ] ~ 1 hr(s) 43 min(s) 26 sec(s) ago
02:34:09 [AaronSw]
.seen tav` 5
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tav` seen leaving #openspace [ ] ~ 1 hr(s) 44 min(s) 8 sec(s) ago
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.seen tav` 6
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tav` seen joining #openspace ~ 1 hr(s) 44 min(s) 15 sec(s) ago
02:34:17 [jeremiah]
hey
02:34:17 [AaronSw]
.seen tav` 7
02:34:17 [xena]
tav` seen in Galahad saying: [ login 'fdRv)Ëéü§òô7튴­òj' ] ~ 1 hr(s) 55 min(s) 13 sec(s) ago
02:34:21 [AaronSw]
hey jeremiah
02:34:25 [jeremiah]
I'm only gonna be online for a little while
02:34:37 [jeremiah]
but I figured, as long as the window is open
02:34:41 [jeremiah]
might as well say hello
02:34:41 [AaronSw]
heh.
02:34:45 [sbp]
'fdRv)Ëéü§òô7튴­òj'? nice
02:34:49 [AaronSw]
cool password
02:34:57 [sbp]
indeed
02:35:12 [AaronSw]
what're you doing for the paper, jer?
02:35:25 [AaronSw]
Is it crunch time?
02:35:39 [jeremiah]
no, crunch time is in a few days
02:35:44 [jeremiah]
I'm actually writing a column again
02:35:48 [jeremiah]
this time, one girl is doing pro-cheating
02:35:51 [jeremiah]
I am doing anti-cheating
02:35:57 [AaronSw]
Hm.
02:36:00 [AaronSw]
Pro-cheating sounds more fun.
02:36:12 [jeremiah]
yeah, it probably will be
02:36:17 [jeremiah]
but they can be moderately funny
02:36:23 [jeremiah]
I know the gist of mine, but not yet how to express it in english
02:36:45 [jeremiah]
something like "cheating is only good for dumbshit exercises which don't make any sense"
02:36:53 [jeremiah]
"cheating is bad for things that build brain functions"
02:37:03 [AaronSw]
Hm.
02:37:13 [AaronSw]
I'd do something mocking, but you know me.
02:37:29 [jeremiah]
yeah
02:37:30 [sbp]
I think the "pro-cheating" people have it easy/hard...
02:37:31 [AaronSw]
"I mean, if students cheated, how else would teachers exert their control over every part of our lives?"
02:37:36 [jeremiah]
hmm
02:37:51 [jeremiah]
well, it was going to be about this bird called the American Woodcock
02:37:53 [AaronSw]
"As you can see no cheating is esential to keep the school dictatorship running smoothly."
02:37:57 [jeremiah]
and our trip to catch them, and about how we didn't catch them
02:38:05 [jeremiah]
but then really about relationships, and howmuch they suck
02:38:18 [sbp]
* sbp goes and does something useful
02:38:20 [AaronSw]
Hm.
02:38:22 [jeremiah]
ending, in of course, how hard it is for girls to get their own American Woodcock
02:39:19 [AaronSw]
Sorry, I have to laugh.
02:39:29 [AaronSw]
heh
02:39:33 [jeremiah]
yeah
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03:07:32 [wmf]
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03:07:36 [wmf]
@ http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lwernham/MacMonkey/appleoptions.png
03:07:48 [chumpster]
A: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lwernham/MacMonkey/appleoptions.png from wmf
03:07:58 [wmf]
A:|Hidden Mac OS X Options
03:07:59 [chumpster]
titled item A
03:19:52 [AaronSw]
lol
03:20:01 [AaronSw]
Is this in 10.1.3?
03:20:22 [AaronSw]
oh, looks like 10.1.3 is done installing...
03:36:05 [jeremiah]
hmm
03:36:08 [jeremiah]
what are the new features?
03:38:27 [AaronSw]
morbus pasted them earlier
03:38:35 [AaronSw]
"Update 10.1.3 delivers enhancements that improve the reliability of Mac OS X applications, important security features and includes new and updated support for a variety of Digital Hub peripheral devices."
03:38:41 [AaronSw]
Specifics are in software update
03:38:57 [jeremiah]
hmm, yeah
03:38:59 [jeremiah]
downloading
03:41:15 [wmf]
http://overstated.net/archives/2002_02.asp#000028
03:45:11 [jeremiah]
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45965,00.html
03:45:16 [jeremiah]
this weblog is REALLY entertaining
03:49:16 [jeremiah]
* jeremiah is away: not here
03:49:30 [tav`]
--
03:49:30 [tav`]
Why is Spain a wealthy democratic nation while Arab countries rot under dictators? Spain had a dictator not so long ago. Spain got over it.
03:49:31 [tav`]
--
03:49:32 [tav`]
ROFL
03:50:32 [jeremiah]
yeah, that was my favorite part
03:50:34 [jeremiah]
time for bed
03:56:59 [Morbus]
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04:45:42 [AaronSw]
ugh, feeling so depressed lately.
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16:35:36 [AaronSw]
BLURB:Great Quotes
16:35:41 [chumpster]
B: Great Quotes from AaronSw
16:38:12 [AaronSw]
B::Tim Berners-Lee (via [Kragen|http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-journal/2002-February/000496.html]): ["We are forming cells within a global brain and we are excited that we might start to think collectively. What becomes of us still hangs crucially on how we think individually."|http://www.w3.org/1998/02/Potential.html]
16:38:14 [chumpster]
commented item B
16:42:05 [tansaku]
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16:42:11 [AaronSw]
Ugh. SF Greens are pushing IRV.
16:42:49 [Morbus]
morning AaronSw.
16:42:56 [AaronSw]
hi Morbus
16:49:45 [Morbus]
hey, did you see my ora blog?
16:50:21 [AaronSw]
yeah. i like how they dropped the background on your photo ;)
16:50:43 [Morbus]
heh heh
17:00:36 [AaronSw]
@ http://electionmethods.org/CondorcetSSD.py
17:00:44 [chumpster]
C: http://electionmethods.org/CondorcetSSD.py from AaronSw
17:01:09 [AaronSw]
C:|Condorcet w/ Schwartz Sequential Dropping in Python
17:01:10 [chumpster]
titled item C
17:03:19 [AaronSw]
heh, cool.
17:03:33 [AaronSw]
today it'll be: 2002 20/02 20:02
17:14:10 [AaronSw]
wow, got spam From: eisen
17:14:26 [AaronSw]
(i.e. Jonathan Eisenzopf)
17:16:05 [AaronSw]
oh, it's a worm
17:33:16 [AaronSw]
Spam: Osama Bin Laden need not apply!
17:37:21 [AaronSw]
Wow, SpamAssassin did good. only 3 false positives out of 1019 emails
17:39:26 [AaronSw]
That's 99.997055937193323% accuracy
17:39:38 [AaronSw]
two 9s and a 7 accuracy ;)
17:47:22 [kmacleod]
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18:33:52 [AaronSw]
anyone interested in a worldwide lexicon project
18:36:26 [AaronSw]
.google coms
18:36:27 [AaronSw]
.google cosm
18:36:27 [xena]
coms: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-8360613.html
18:36:28 [xena]
cosm: http://www.mithral.com/projects/cosm
18:44:22 [Morbus]
AaronSw, you there?
18:44:25 [Morbus]
got a question.
18:44:27 [AaronSw]
yep
18:44:33 [Morbus]
i'm thinking of this amphetadesk channels thing.
18:44:41 [Morbus]
initially, i was gonna make everything into a DBM file.
18:44:52 [Morbus]
that would allow me to keep track of which items have seen, new items, and tons of other fun stuff.
18:44:55 [AaronSw]
sounds good
18:44:58 [Morbus]
but, here's a thought, broached by someone else:
18:45:14 [Morbus]
- keep everything in an rss 1.0 xml file, with a ampheta: namespace for the data.
18:45:24 [Morbus]
than i wouldn't have to write any new DBM code, and it'd be easier to use in other apps as well.
18:45:52 [AaronSw]
Hm, it'd be sort of expensive to parse, but that sounds really cool.
18:45:55 [Morbus]
so each channel would be sucked down, and then rewritten/appended to an existing rss 1.0 file, that has the same functions as the DBM file i wsa intending.
18:46:09 [AaronSw]
yeah, that'd be awesome if it worked
18:46:20 [Morbus]
yeah, that's my one main thing too, but parsing the 1 meg channelsList file from Ampheta only takes about a second and a half using XML::Parser.
18:46:20 [AaronSw]
i guess you're already parse rdf now, so it can't be any more expensive
18:46:26 [AaronSw]
nice
18:46:45 [AaronSw]
I'm convincing this guy to do P2PQ-over-IM
18:47:35 [Morbus]
yeah? kickass.
18:47:37 [Morbus]
how is that going?
18:47:50 [AaronSw]
i dunno, just got an email from him. rael pointed him at me.
18:48:10 [AaronSw]
He wants to do dictionary lookups using people, but i think it should be easy to expand to any sorta question.
18:48:21 [AaronSw]
instead of saying you speak french, just say you speak networkese ;)
18:48:43 [Morbus]
heh :) ...
18:48:58 [Morbus]
well, hey, if it gets good, cc me or something ;) ... i'm really interested in the idea.
18:49:18 [AaronSw]
k, i'll cc you.
18:49:22 [Morbus]
my main worry with the XML file thingy is filesizing. if each one becomes a meg, then that'd be a 200 meg installation on my box. i'd probably gzip in the interim.
18:49:24 [AaronSw]
err, i'll give him your email
18:49:34 [Morbus]
he should have my email already. we've talked previously.
18:49:49 [AaronSw]
oh? brian mcconnell?
18:49:51 [Morbus]
but, over time, yeah, there would be a huge slowdown.
18:50:06 [Morbus]
i wonder if I should store "seen" items in a channelname-seen.xml file.
18:50:10 [AaronSw]
Hm.
18:50:18 [Morbus]
so they'd only be examined on searching, etc.
18:51:25 [AaronSw]
my aggregatorData.root is 13MB
18:51:39 [Morbus]
how many channels do you read?
18:51:48 [AaronSw]
like 10-15 or so
18:51:49 [Morbus]
i don't think that's a plain text file though, is it?
18:52:02 [Morbus]
ah, yeah, i have about 90 channels in mine, and tara has about 200.
18:52:11 [Morbus]
so, that'd be a huge matching .root file.
18:52:27 [AaronSw]
no, it's binary
18:52:47 [AaronSw]
storing it gzipped is good
18:52:48 [Morbus]
* Morbus nods.
18:52:59 [Morbus]
I bet if I did a DBM file, it'd be a lot smaller, and probably faster access to.
18:53:19 [Morbus]
but just more code to access, and shuts down easy modification from other people.
18:54:05 [Morbus]
my main annoyance is i'm not exactly sure how to store stuff smartly in a DBM file. DB_File only stores one level of a hash without additional moduels.
18:54:13 [AaronSw]
yeah
18:54:19 [AaronSw]
DBMs just do key->value
18:54:22 [Morbus]
right.
18:54:29 [Morbus]
there's a MLDBM for Perl that supposedly does more.
18:54:40 [Morbus]
but the code for it is kludgely - no direct access, etc.
18:54:43 [AaronSw]
it must just convert it down
18:55:02 [Morbus]
i'd have to do crap like item-#timestampID#-title
18:55:06 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw gets an email:
18:55:11 [Morbus]
item-#timestamp#-description
18:55:13 [Morbus]
and so forth.
18:55:31 [Morbus]
OooH
18:55:51 [Morbus]
maybe this guy should send a nasty email to rael to get his arse moving ;)
18:55:52 [AaronSw]
ick
18:55:56 [AaronSw]
heh
19:02:40 [Morbus]
AaronSw: you think i should pursue the large XML file option?
19:02:49 [AaronSw]
yeah
19:02:51 [Morbus]
and if so, when the time comes, wanna help me design the ampheta: namespace?
19:03:02 [AaronSw]
of course
19:03:09 [Morbus]
cool.
19:45:03 [Morbus]
ooh. tara just mentioned ampheta again in her lastest researchbuzz-extra.
19:45:38 [Morbus]
[[[
19:45:38 [Morbus]
Now I know you remember me raving about this one.
19:45:39 [Morbus]
AmphetaDesk is a program that allows you to gather and
19:45:39 [Morbus]
read RSS files on one large HTML page. I use this
19:45:39 [Morbus]
program almost every day; it helps me tremendously in
19:45:39 [Morbus]
keeping up with all the great Web sites out there. It's
19:45:40 [Morbus]
still in pre-release but I've been using it for over
19:45:42 [Morbus]
six months and find it very stable. It's free.
19:45:44 [Morbus]
]]]
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20:25:08 [Morbus]
yessss!
20:25:10 [Morbus]
sbp, you around?!!
20:25:17 [Morbus]
my bio is changed: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2002/01/29/apache_macosx_four.html?page=2
20:25:25 [Morbus]
the little mini one. cool :)
20:37:04 [Savek]
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21:27:27 [jeremiah]
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21:32:51 [rillian]
hmm. fink selfupdate always hangs at the tar step
21:34:05 [AaronSw]
Hm, I use the CVS update version
21:34:39 [rillian]
how do you switch to that?
21:34:48 [bijan]
bijan (bparsia@login8.isis.unc.edu) has joined #swhack
21:35:00 [AaronSw]
hey bijan!
21:35:03 [bijan]
hey aaron.
21:35:05 [bijan]
Seen sbp?
21:35:08 [AaronSw]
yeah
21:35:11 [AaronSw]
he's right there
21:35:19 [bijan]
Or interested in answering my n3/cwm questions?
21:35:24 [AaronSw]
rillian, i think it asks when you run fink selfupdate
21:35:27 [AaronSw]
I can try.
21:35:41 [rillian]
AaronSw: it did once. I said 'no' and it never asked again
21:35:53 [bijan]
* bijan has CWMClone working, sorta.
21:36:31 [AaronSw]
fink configure, perhaps?
21:36:35 [AaronSw]
CWMClone: cooL!
21:36:42 [AaronSw]
sbp has been doing some cwm-like stuff with eep
21:36:45 [bijan]
Yep.
21:36:45 [rillian]
ah it's in the config file, but configure doesn't prompt for it. wierd
21:36:50 [bijan]
We were chatting about 'em.
21:36:53 [AaronSw]
Cool
21:37:02 [bijan]
Alas, my N3 parser is still a touch weak.
21:37:25 [bijan]
Non explicit uri namespaces, prefixless qnames, etc.
21:37:30 [bijan]
I don't handle 'em well.
21:37:35 [AaronSw]
Hm.
21:38:12 [bijan]
So, that'll have to be fixed before anyone uses it :)
21:38:29 [AaronSw]
heh. what's it written in, prolog?
21:38:42 [bijan]
Yes.
21:38:47 [bijan]
Rather, before anyone wants to use it.
21:39:02 [bijan]
Having an n3 repl is sorta fun.
21:39:04 [rillian]
wow. didn't know anyone was still using prolog
21:39:11 [rillian]
if there a free interpreter?
21:39:19 [bijan]
Most prologs are compilers.
21:39:22 [bijan]
And many are free.
21:39:26 [bijan]
I'm using SWI-Prolog.
21:39:32 [bijan]
See my articles on XML.com
21:43:06 [bijan]
Scoping universal vars is troublesome too.
21:45:29 [bijan]
Ok, passed the ancestor test.
21:45:36 [bijan]
For some lose value of "passed"
21:45:46 [AaronSw]
heh.
21:45:56 [bijan]
Well, not everythign is automated.
21:46:01 [AaronSw]
Very cool. We could have a CWM-clone bakeoff.
21:46:03 [bijan]
Rule compilation, for example.
21:46:12 [AaronSw]
Hm.
21:46:13 [bijan]
So, it generates some new rules.
21:46:23 [bijan]
And I have to hit compile_rules manually :)
21:46:39 [bijan]
Hmm. There's a simple fix.
21:47:19 [bijan]
I'm also a bit hardcoded to the toplevel context for rules.
21:47:36 [rillian]
AaronSw: I'm a bit confused why they don't make binaries from the cvs tree available
21:47:46 [rillian]
I guess we pray they don't update X very often?
21:47:54 [AaronSw]
Hm?
21:48:05 [AaronSw]
Oh, why you have to compile everything
21:48:09 [rillian]
aye
21:48:23 [AaronSw]
Yeah, 'tis sort of annoying.
21:48:48 [GabeW]
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21:48:49 [AaronSw]
I'd forgotten all about the binaries.
21:48:59 [AaronSw]
There's http://fink.sourceforge.net/bindist/
21:49:07 [bijan]
<AaronSw> Oh, why you have to compile everything"?
21:49:16 [rillian]
bijan: talking to me
21:49:22 [bijan]
Ah!
21:49:23 [bijan]
:)
21:49:27 [AaronSw]
Heh.
21:54:05 [bijan]
Ah, this worked.
21:54:19 [bijan]
need to be smarter about recompiling rules or it'll slow stuff way down.
21:54:23 [bijan]
Hmm. Maybe not that much.
22:00:59 [bijan]
So aaron, any interesting n3 logic tests?
22:01:09 [AaronSw]
Not that I can think of...
22:01:26 [bijan]
I guess it's all about slogging now :(
22:02:12 [AaronSw]
I know Sean used the ancestor stuff.
22:02:19 [AaronSw]
Then he had a field day with the built-ins.
22:02:39 [bijan]
Built-ins, ugh.
22:02:49 [bijan]
And I'm not using python as the underlying langauge :(
22:03:06 [AaronSw]
Yeah.
22:03:18 [bijan]
Yes, he mentioned lists.
22:13:28 [Morbus]
AaronSw: is rael on any IMs right now?
22:13:38 [AaronSw]
he's usually on aim
22:14:47 [Morbus]
is he on now? i don't know his aim.
22:14:51 [Morbus]
i wanna ask him a quick q.
22:15:12 [AaronSw]
don't have AIM open...
22:15:35 [Morbus]
hrm. ok.
22:26:19 [Morbus]
hmm. looking at the source, it does load into memory, it looks like.
22:49:08 [Morbus]
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22:50:28 [deus_x]
* deus_x tries to wrap his head around Tinderbox
23:11:32 [sbp]
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23:11:53 [sbp]
* sbp decides that staying away from #swhack is not all that viable
23:12:11 [bijan]
Hey sean.
23:12:20 [sbp]
bijan!
23:12:48 [sbp]
wow... welcome :-)
23:13:11 [sbp]
* sbp reviews the logs
23:13:29 [sbp]
How's the CWMClone coming
23:13:48 [bijan]
I was looking for you :)
23:14:04 [sbp]
BTW "#(.+?)" is a comment in this channel - it doesn't get logged
23:14:28 [sbp]
everything else is archived instantly to the Web at http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/
23:15:14 [sbp]
* sbp just returned from watching Frasier - they showed the beach house party one
23:15:36 [deltab]
ah, with the bedrooms
23:15:50 [sbp]
no, that's the ski-resort one
23:15:57 [deltab]
oh
23:16:00 [sbp]
this is the one where Niles is trying to get the Golden Apron
23:16:08 [sbp]
and they find the seal on the beach...
23:16:22 [sbp]
the ski-resort one was on recently too; that's an excellent episode
23:17:18 [bijan]
I got a modifed daml:TransitiveProperty thing working.
23:17:54 [sbp]
sbp has changed the topic to: "If it moves, check it. If it's stationary, paint it" - Dagenham Motto
23:18:05 [sbp]
what was the rule?
23:19:58 [sbp]
[OLM]
23:20:25 [sbp]
from the logs it seems that you are having some N3 parsing problems?
23:21:14 [bijan]
I am?
23:21:22 [bijan]
Well, old ones :)
23:22:38 [sbp]
prefixless QNames? I guess you just mean empty prefixes: :x right?
23:22:56 [sbp]
the old non-colonized version was removed ages ago
23:23:03 [sbp]
[last August, from notation3.py]
23:23:23 [bijan]
Yes.
23:23:48 [bijan]
rdf_db.pl uses a binary operator : to do qnames.
23:24:00 [bijan]
Quite naturally it expects somethign up front :)
23:25:39 [sbp]
I just RegExp the tokens out. It's easier:-
23:25:39 [sbp]
Name = r'[A-Za-z0-9_]+'
23:25:40 [sbp]
QName = r'(?:[A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9_]*)?:' + Name
23:26:08 [bijan]
Sure.
23:26:21 [bijan]
I'm currently passing qnames to rdf_db.pl to handle.
23:26:34 [bijan]
As it expect RDFy names, it fails on these cases :)
23:26:51 [sbp]
how does it get the QNames from the stream? iterate through the characters matching tokens as you go?
23:26:53 [bijan]
So, I'll have to write my own expander.
23:27:11 [bijan]
qnames get tokenized as a symbol.
23:27:19 [bijan]
q:name == 'q:name'
23:27:50 [bijan]
Then they get passed to rdf_assert
23:27:54 [bijan]
Which does the expansions.
23:28:05 [sbp]
* sbp can't make head nor tail of the prolog yet... needs to make more use of the various prolog tutorials
23:28:32 [rillian]
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23:28:52 [bijan]
Hmm. I may be wrong...
23:29:36 [bijan]
Hehe.
23:29:41 [sbp]
ah, you seem to put it into modes depending upon the first character of the token
23:29:49 [bijan]
basically.
23:30:05 [bijan]
but I, in fact, seem to break the qname apart in the tokenization.
23:30:11 [bijan]
Then stitch it back together ;)
23:30:24 [sbp]
erk
23:30:26 [bijan]
expand_qname(Qname, Name) :-
23:30:26 [bijan]
atom_concat(Pre, Possible_name, Qname),
23:30:26 [bijan]
atom_concat(Prefix,':', Pre),
23:30:26 [bijan]
expand_qname(Prefix, Possible_name, Name).
23:30:43 [bijan]
That's the preliminary support.
23:30:55 [bijan]
expand_qname('',Name, default_:Name).
23:30:56 [bijan]
expand_qname(Prefix, Name, Prefix:Name).
23:31:04 [sbp]
can you print out an example toke stream at all?
23:31:15 [bijan]
Sure.
23:31:21 [bijan]
n3_repl prints them out.
23:31:27 [sbp]
oh, good point
23:31:32 [bijan]
n32_repl will tokenize without entering.
23:31:35 [sbp]
* sbp loads it
23:32:49 [sbp]
erk:-
23:32:49 [sbp]
n3:- x: y: z: .
23:32:49 [sbp]
done read: [x:, y:, z:, .]
23:33:02 [bijan]
Right.
23:33:06 [bijan]
So I keep them together.
23:33:10 [bijan]
Then tear them apart.
23:33:14 [bijan]
Then put them back together :)
23:33:48 [sbp]
* sbp tries running his mega feckoid N3 test case through it
23:33:53 [sbp]
can it handle triple quotes yet?
23:33:58 [bijan]
Hmm.
23:34:01 [bijan]
Dunno.
23:34:03 [bijan]
Good question.
23:34:10 [sbp]
I'll soon find out
23:34:10 [bijan]
Prolly nt.
23:34:13 [sbp]
test case:-
23:34:13 [sbp]
@prefix: <http://example.org/#> . :x :y :z .
23:34:13 [sbp]
"a" _:b _:c. """blargh"""
23:34:14 [sbp]
_:x """
23:34:14 [sbp]
@prefix <a> <b> "c\\"""" .
23:34:31 [sbp]
ooh, it didn't like that
23:34:48 [bijan]
Yes, I don't have triple quote support yet.
23:35:11 [bijan]
oooh, i can't remember if I have literals in subject places.
23:35:17 [bijan]
I think I added that.
23:35:35 [bijan]
Y'know, n3 *really screws over* a RDF system :)
23:35:37 [sbp]
nope:-
23:35:37 [sbp]
n3:- "x" "y" "z" .
23:35:38 [sbp]
done read: [literal(x), literal(y), literal(z), .]
23:35:38 [sbp]
ERROR: atom_concat/3: Type error: `atomic' expected, found `literal(x)'
23:35:46 [sbp]
heh, indeed
23:36:22 [bijan]
I thought, 'N3! A superset of RDF. An *extension* of RDF! I'll just use the rdf engine!"
23:36:25 [sbp]
I think Eep allows literals for predicates, which isn't all that good... but then, it doesn't have a Store class. I should write one, but I don't need it
23:36:43 [sbp]
it's hard to avoid the extensions, isn't it? :-)
23:39:05 [bijan]
Well, most test code use them :)
23:39:08 [bijan]
uses them.
23:40:32 [bijan]
Hmm. I wish there was some nice, very simple, inference intesive tests.
23:40:46 [bijan]
Be nice to see if this is actually worth pursuing for performance reasons.
23:42:42 [sbp]
yeah
23:42:54 [sbp]
the regression test for CWM might be worth checking out
23:43:00 [bijan]
ugh.
23:43:08 [bijan]
But that'll have all sorts of nasties in it, yes?
23:43:17 [sbp]
unfortunately, yes
23:43:28 [sbp]
you'll have to just use the "ordinary" test cases
23:43:42 [bijan]
So, it becomes a toss up between implementing features, or rewriting test cases :)
23:44:18 [sbp]
well, it's a fun toss-up, at least
23:44:21 [sbp]
brb
23:44:25 [wendy]
wendy has quit ("...sunny days, sweeping the clouds away...")
23:46:37 [sbp]
* sbp returns
23:49:19 [sbp]
warning, big paste coming up
23:49:27 [sbp]
>>> import eep, query, infer, n3, bi
23:49:27 [sbp]
>>> kb = n3.parse("""
23:49:27 [sbp]
@prefix : <#> .
23:49:27 [sbp]
@prefix u: <http://example.org/#> .
23:49:27 [sbp]
u:John :sonOf u:Bob .
23:49:33 [sbp]
u:Bob :sonOf u:Fred .
23:49:34 [sbp]
u:Fred :sonOf u:Frank .
23:49:34 [sbp]
u:Frank :sonOf :Jim .
23:49:34 [sbp]
""")
23:49:38 [sbp]
>>> rule = [n3.parse("""@prefix : <#> .
23:49:39 [sbp]
@prefix log: <http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#> .
23:49:46 [sbp]
@prefix string: <http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/string#> .
23:49:46 [sbp]
?p :sonOf ?q . ?q :sonOf ?r . ?r log:uri ?s .
23:49:46 [sbp]
?s string:startsWith "http://example.org/#" ."""), # log:implies
23:49:52 [sbp]
n3.parse("?p <#grandsonOf> ?r .")]
23:49:52 [sbp]
>>> bi.bfilter(rule, kb)
23:49:56 [sbp]
[[[<http://example.org/#John>, <#grandsonOf>, <http://example.org/#Fred>]], [[<http://example.org/#Bob>, <#grandsonOf>, <http://example.org/#Frank>]]]
23:49:57 [sbp]
>>>
23:50:08 [sbp]
now *that's* what I call a test case
23:50:25 [bijan]
Why?
23:50:30 [deltab]
why the hybrid output format?
23:50:42 [sbp]
the builtins were quite annoying to implement...
23:50:50 [sbp]
hybrid output format?
23:51:00 [bijan]
Hm.m I can't read that at all.
23:51:07 [bijan]
And now it's scrolled away.
23:51:18 [sbp]
it's in http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-02-20.txt
23:51:44 [bijan]
No no, that's alright.
23:51:45 [deltab]
not usual python, not n3
23:52:22 [sbp]
ah, well it's actually a list of Articles. The __repr__ is set to print terms like that for easy debugging
23:52:25 [sbp]
I could have done:-
23:52:25 [sbp]
>>> for result in bi.bfilter(rule, kb): print eep.serialize(result)
23:52:25 [sbp]
<http://example.org/#John> <#grandsonOf> <http://example.org/#Fred> .
23:52:25 [sbp]
<http://example.org/#Bob> <#grandsonOf> <http://example.org/#Frank> .
23:52:26 [sbp]
>>>
23:53:31 [sbp]
trouble is, all of the best built-ins use lists...
23:53:41 [sbp]
e.g. string:scrape. I'd love to get string:scrape working
23:54:12 [sbp]
Hmm... I think I implemented log:content already
23:54:19 [bijan]
Hmm. I'd love to get a series of graduated tests cases :)
23:57:19 [sbp]
kick-ass:-
23:57:21 [sbp]
>>> kb = eep.parse('<http://www.w3.org/> <#a> <#Target> .')
23:57:21 [sbp]
>>> rule = [n3.parse("""@prefix : <#> .
23:57:21 [sbp]
@prefix log: <http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#> .
23:57:25 [sbp]
?p <#a> <#Target> . ?p log:content ?q ."""), n3.parse("?p <#derefsAs> ?q .")]
23:57:26 [sbp]
>>> bi.bfilter(rule, kb)
23:57:26 [sbp]
[[[<http://www.w3.org/>, <#derefsAs>, "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
23:57:26 [sbp]
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
23:57:27 [sbp]
[...]
23:57:39 [bijan]
Ok, I'm off.
23:57:43 [bijan]
bijan has quit ("Leaving")
23:58:29 [sbp]
well, it is midnight...