00:02:04 tansaku (~sam@h132-018.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:03:40 plannign on posting to ORA tonight for the first time. 00:03:42 should be interesting. 00:11:29 ooh 00:12:05 sbp, do you have that yatta flash link from last week? 00:13:28 nm. 00:18:41 yattaflash? 00:26:24 rillian has quit ("macos") 00:35:05 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 00:36:53 rillian: http://verylowsodium.com/fanimutation/exuberance.php 00:43:00 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 00:47:48 * rillian thanks Morbus belatedly 00:55:16 oh, the *Yatta* thing! 00:55:22 .google "Hatt-Baby" 00:55:23 "Hatt-Baby": http://user.tninet.se/~prv247p/hatt/hatten.swf 00:55:35 that's another funny flash fing 00:56:06 funny in that it's just so bizarre. I'm still not 100% sure of its origins 00:56:37 for me, something that is bizarre is also comical 00:57:07 * rillian has seen that one before 00:58:11 starwars.com is getting smarter about not making their movies downloadable 01:03:59 s/smarter/more clever/ 01:04:11 cleverer, perhaps? 01:06:27 * sbp reads about comparative adjectives... 01:09:35 26,600 (cleverer) vs. 28,400 (more clever) on Google, although I feel that "cleverer" should be canonical, since adding the "-er" suffix is normal for one-syllable adjectives, and flows well for "clever" (and quiet) in particular 01:16:34 Morbus (~Morbus@s116.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 01:17:11 welp, the blog won't be under Morbus Iff. 01:17:29 doing so disassociates the "author" link from my O'ReillyNet articles, and that linkage is more important to me than the Morbus Iff name. 01:17:32 i just wonder how much they're gonna hate me when I bring this up. 01:18:22 lol!: "The primary purpose of the Data statement is to give names to constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every appearance, the variable Pi can be given that value with a Data statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant. This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change." - Fortran manual for Xerox Computers 01:18:38 hehe 01:19:15 what's that about your blog? 01:19:43 welp, using Morbus Iff as a name seemed to make them have to create a brand new user called Morbus Iff strictly for that purpose. 01:20:03 so, that makes it seem like a whole new author, and thus, the author link is not hooked into my articles I've written. 01:20:15 being linked to the articles is more important than being linked to my name. 01:20:22 so i sent them a quick email abou tit. 01:20:42 cool 01:20:54 when is your blog bursting forth onto the Web? 01:21:03 which means they'll be all under Kevin Hemenway from now on. 01:21:08 Pff 01:21:26 yeah, well, the linkage is more important than the name to me. 01:22:13 but your name is... your identifier in society 01:22:35 ah twell 01:23:30 i'm still having big identity crisese. 01:23:43 when i first noticed the breakage with the link crap, i'm like 'ooh, good, now I can use my real name for tech stuff". 01:23:47 which one of you? 01:23:55 and then i'm like "wait, i really like Morbus Iff". 01:24:09 yeah, he's a nice feller 01:24:11 and then "well, being on O'Reilly is a good thing. you should use your real name. hell, everyone else is." 01:24:22 and I run down the same flipping hill I have been before. 01:24:26 no no, support nicks! 01:24:34 but your name is Morbus Iff! You only need to start using a new name in the USA in order to change it 01:24:45 they're a disappearing part of net.culture! 01:25:07 rillian: the linkage to my articles is more important than the linkage to my name. 01:25:26 as long as it doesn't cause a grievance to local officials, and is alphabetic (no numbers or funny characters) 01:25:37 i mean, sure, having a weblog over at ORA is cool and crap. but I want people to see the articles I've written as well. 01:25:47 as it is now, they click the name, and see absolutely nothing. 01:25:56 and that makes me look like some moron just spouting off for no reason about tech. 01:25:57 er... how can something be "cool and crap"? is that possible? 01:26:36 but you're relying on the belief that people will actually click your name. If you change it to Hemenway, no one will bother 01:26:42 aw, damn. 01:26:42 so it's besides the point 01:26:45 [[ It's not hard, I'll make the switch. ]] 01:26:51 i didn't make any one have a bad day. 01:26:57 just wait. i'll tell her to switch it back when she's done. 01:27:01 yeah, that'll make it better 01:27:09 her? 01:27:19 Nancy at ORA. apparently she's the weblog person. 01:27:22 * Morbus shrugs. 01:27:26 interesting 01:27:36 well, at least at the end of each thing I post, it says "creator of disobey.com" 01:28:03 now, when someone comes up to me in the street and says "hey, do you know that Nancy - the weblog person at ORA?", I can be all like, "yeah, dude, but only indirectly" 01:28:15 content for the discontented! 01:28:15 :) 01:28:19 yah :) 01:28:26 i think it says that too. 01:28:30 cool 01:28:33 yeah: 01:28:34 Morbus Iff is the creator of disobey.com, which bills itself as "content for the discontented". 01:28:55 although it'll say Kevin hemenway instad. 01:29:08 maybe, at the end of every entry, I should say "My name is Morbus Iff. This Hemenway guy is just a front." 01:29:08 Kevin Hemenway is the alter-ego of the pervasively strange Morbus Iff - creator of disobey.com - which bills itself as "content for the discontented". 01:29:09 01:29:23 s/m -/, / 01:29:27 er... 01:29:30 yeah, lemme see if I can get Derrick to change that. 01:29:46 heh, heh 01:32:06 sending that "change short sentence thing". 01:32:15 cool 01:45:11 sbp: i'm working on moving DNN over to MT, which means regular culture updates. yay 01:46:06 back to daily cultural enjoyment? 01:46:11 yah :) 01:46:18 and what do you class as "culture"? 01:46:20 .wn culture 01:46:22 culture defined as: 01:46:22 Is "All Your Base" culture or technology? 01:46:23 - n 1: a particular civilization at a particular stage 01:46:24 - 2: the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group 01:46:25 - 3: all the knowledge and values shared by a society [syn: {acculturation}] 01:46:26 - 4: (biology) the growing of microorganisms in a nutrient medium (such as gelatin or agar); "the culture of cells in a Petri dish" 01:46:27 - 5: the raising of plants or animals: "the culture of oysters" 01:46:30 all your base is culture. 01:46:33 Pff. 01:46:48 All your technology are belong to culture. 01:46:56 heh, heh 01:47:13 all your base is technology sure, but the only reason it became so big was because of culutural differences and language trans problems/. 01:48:03 heh! we suck. "Don't ask us to explain "the culture" - that would only lessen its value and diminish its importance." - http://www.disobey.com/dnn/ 01:48:23 yeaaaaaah 01:48:27 so what did we go and do? 01:48:28 immediately? without even a trace of research? 01:49:33 monthly templates on dnn. what should they be? /yyyy/mm.shtml? 01:49:43 at this point, i dont see a huge need for yyyy/mm/dd/ 01:49:43 yyyy/mm/ 01:49:56 no "shtml", please 01:50:02 why? 01:50:02 pretty please 01:50:13 The SHT Markup Language 01:50:22 because one day you'll think "Hmm... SSIs are a bit shitty" 01:50:58 and then, all your URI belong to /dev/null 01:51:05 Heh. 01:51:10 s/URI/URI are/ 01:51:11 heh. 01:51:47 it beats "Cool URIs Don't Change" :-) 01:52:34 so you folks must know something about ssl 01:52:54 how would one to authentication similar to what ssh-agent handles for cvs 01:53:05 over and ssl protocol like webdav? 01:53:15 I don't think SSL does authentication. 01:53:28 what are the certificates for then? 01:53:28 sbp has changed the topic to: Don't diminsh us: take your questions about cultural definition elsewhere 01:53:33 Only some PKI stuff needed to prevent against MITM attacks. 01:53:58 that's the server saying: you can trust that i'm so-and-so, the user doesn't do anything. 01:54:06 (well, except for verifying the server's claim) 01:54:18 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 01:54:21 gstein in #svn claimed the client could send a certificate as well 01:54:33 OoO: http://www.disobey.com/dnn/test/ 01:55:08 gstein is the kind of fellow who knows his stuff, i'd think 01:56:00 heh. was being entirely too confident for my piece of mind earlier. :-) 01:56:09 what's the question? 01:56:24 does ssl have user auth? 01:56:28 how would one to authentication similar to what ssh-agent handles for cvs over an ssl protocol like webdav 01:56:39 client certs 01:56:50 I'd have thought that WebDAV uses normal HTTP auth. 01:57:06 now, you can do user/passwd after the ssl session is estabilished, but that's clearly a loss of functionality 01:57:19 it does, but I see no reason why you couldn't negotiate up to client certs 01:57:19 AaronSw: I think it does. that's what I'm worried about :) 01:57:31 wmf: ok, so that does work 01:57:45 can you step through the process, so I can see how it works? 01:58:01 http://www.ultranet.com/~fhirsch/Papers/wwwj/article.html seems to explain 01:58:05 C: SYN 01:58:12 S: SYN+ACK 01:58:16 C: ACK 01:58:29 S: here is my certificate 01:58:33 C: and here is mine 01:58:40 01:59:05 [wmf does the modem static version] 01:59:13 now SSL is set up and you can send plain HTTP requests with no auth headers 01:59:56 so the server could use a valid trust result on the clients certificate to authenticate the client 02:00:04 right 02:00:52 so instead of what we do now, where the user sends the cvs admin an ssh key, which is installed in a (possibly limited) user account for write access 02:01:37 the user and admin would exchange certificates, and enter them into their respective trust databases 02:01:44 right 02:02:27 ok, that's not so bad 02:02:54 except for having *another* passphrase/key infrastructure to maintain on your account 02:03:03 apache already supports client certs; I think it puts the user name in an env var 02:03:03 (in addition of gpg and ssh) 02:04:04 the ultimate goal of PKI is that you only need one key pair (stored on a smart card of course) which is used for web single-sign-on (SSL), mail (S/MIME), and logins (SSH-PKI) 02:04:13 so far it has not really happened 02:04:32 don't expect it will happen soon 02:04:38 indeed 02:06:12 gutenberg *really* needs a nice front end 02:06:12 indeed! 02:06:18 *but* webdav over ssl might finally provide a secure network filesystem for use over the wan 02:06:59 AaronSw: problem is, one seeming is on one's own, since the gutenburg guy isn't interested in anything but hand-formatted text 02:07:18 if you really want a filesystem, I would suggest NFSv4 over SSL 02:07:35 wmf: didn't realise you could do that 02:07:59 that's actually safe? 02:08:07 sure 02:08:28 and better than dav because? 02:08:29 rillian, the HWG converted a bunch to XML 02:08:55 DAV wasn't designed to be a filesystem. 02:09:10 NFS semantics are much more similar to OS filesystem semantics than webdav 02:10:10 hey wmf, how's that publication coming? 02:10:26 heh 02:11:37 oh, right, you're subscribed to musicbrainz 02:12:01 er, yeah, but I don't see how that's related to anything... 02:14:18 my article got published today, i emailed them about it 02:15:17 what article? 02:15:41 B:: 02:16:02 Aaron Swartz, MusicBrainz: A Semantic Web Service, IEEE Intelligent Systems, Jan/Feb 2002, pp. 76-77. (PDF, old HTML) 02:16:06 PDF: http://www.aaronsw.com/musicbrainzIEEE 02:16:27 cool 02:17:04 ooh. new picture of AaronSw! 02:17:05 02:17:08 Heh, heh 02:17:15 gee AaronSw, you're a lot older than I remember--wait, that's the editor 02:17:24 yeah! i thought that too! 02:17:25 Heh, yeah. 02:17:33 I'm on the second page. 02:17:35 i'm like "who the frel is this flipping guy". 02:18:00 kinda skimpy on the references 02:18:10 it's a little better in the magazine since i'm on the opposite corner. 02:18:48 wmf... hmm. looking thru the other articles there are some with 1/2 page text and 1 and 1/2 pages of references 02:21:03 Hmm, TAG videocon tomorrow. 02:28:43 cool, i've been blogged 02:28:46 :-) 02:30:15 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 02:33:04 * jeremiah has been busy all day importing loads of old entries into mt 02:33:22 I now have 500 entries... 02:33:27 550 taht is 02:36:34 Heh! 02:42:19 sbp has changed the topic to: Don't diminish us: take your questions about cultural definition elsewhere 03:01:45 can folks see www.swartzfam.com? 03:02:16 was it bought out by amazon? :-) 03:02:29 Heh, heh 03:02:48 hey, when bezos starts writing big checks, you don't say no 03:03:05 lots of 404s 03:03:15 @ http://www.pingid.org/pingid-project/do/wiki?action=view&topic=HighLevelOverview 03:03:17 A: http://www.pingid.org/pingid-project/do/wiki?action=view&topic=HighLevelOverview from wmf 03:03:28 hmm, you're right... wonder where all the content went 03:04:16 ugh. guess my tar didn't recurse so well. 03:05:58 A:|PingID: Open Digital Identity Infrastructure 03:05:58 titled item A 03:06:04 A::Sponsored by Jabber 03:06:05 commented item A 03:06:36 how evil: http://www.durand.com/ping/taxonomy/Taxonomy_frames.htm 03:07:01 nothing but js 03:07:07 bleech. 03:07:10 i must have JS off 03:07:29 hmm, it's on and i still see a blank page 03:07:43 yeah, it doesn't work in omniweb 03:07:58 or IE5 it seems 03:08:50 A::This sounds omninous: "We intend to implement the Server Infrastructure execution profile first, as it is consistent with the business goals of Ping Corp." 03:08:52 commented item A 03:09:23 A::We just need to out-code them 03:09:24 commented item A 03:09:38 A::Shouldn't be hard, considering they're writing it in C. 03:09:39 commented item A 03:10:01 Wow, they might be the first to implement XML encryption 03:10:25 the ASF is working on an implementation 03:14:38 their license needs work: http://www.pingid.org/pingid-project/do/wiki?topic=LicenseAgreement&action=view 03:15:50 hmm 03:15:51 I was thinking today about communities of friends centered around a shell server. like canonical.org, pkl.net, etc. 03:17:45 Heh: http://canonical.org/cgi-bin/happy-hackers.cgi 03:22:09 oh shoot. radio expired 03:23:54 wmf has quit ("BitchX-75p3 -- just do it.") 03:24:19 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 03:24:27 bad things. 03:25:13 i don't think they sent me a final warning 03:25:29 yeah, I haven't gotten any warnings lately 03:25:34 @ http://www.google.com/appliance/ 03:25:38 B: Google Search Solutions from AaronSw 03:25:47 That's crazy... 03:27:01 B::[Their FAQ|http://www.google.com/appliance/faq.html#support] doesn't answer the important question: how much is the software? 03:27:01 commented item B 03:27:19 B::I mean, it's pretty likely it'll run Linux, so you know someone is going to hack it and put the code up on the Web. 03:27:20 commented item B 03:27:24 the software is not sold separately 03:27:45 i suspected, but is it given away? 03:27:51 no 03:28:10 (you greedy bastard) 03:28:12 :-) 03:29:03 how much are they? 03:29:19 i wonder if the w3c will buy one 03:35:48 anyone know of a proxypass overwrites rewriterules in apache? 03:37:19 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:59:15 @ http://www.oralse.cx/ 03:59:31 C: http://www.oralse.cx/ from wmf 04:03:56 lol 04:04:12 I got tricked into going there from a /. post 04:04:30 really? the [foo.com] didn't help? 04:04:44 nope, they redirected it through srd.yahoo.com 04:05:00 heh. link to the post? 04:05:12 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27830&cid=2992222 04:05:40 @ http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/apparel/595d.shtml 04:05:47 D: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/apparel/595d.shtml from wmf 04:06:34 Ooh, I have mod points today. I think I'll mod that up :) 04:06:54 careful, I'll metamod you back 04:07:11 can i mod it funny? 04:07:25 yeah, that seems ok 04:09:15 I'm going to metamoderate everything as unfair and see what happens 04:09:39 i'll metametamoderate you as a loser 04:11:31 let me know if you find anything worth modding 04:12:49 it seems disturbing that the moderation and scoring algorithms aren't really documented 04:13:13 hmm. i guess it's a utsl thing 04:35:51 B::Especially considering that they'll be set up by hackers, I expect that Linux binaries of the code will be available pretty soon. If people are hacking TiVos they'll definitely hack this. 04:35:53 commented item B 04:41:20 Morbus (~Morbus@s116.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 04:41:51 Morbus has left #swhack 04:52:53 heh, cool: dotty - Generate package graphs for GraphVis 04:52:58 on apt-cache 05:01:38 should i upgrade libc6 to 2.2.5-3? 06:07:58 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:10:00 tansaku2 (~sam@h134-226.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:26:41 tansaku has quit (Connection timed out) 06:29:36 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 07:19:36 wmf has quit ("zzz") 07:33:38 rillian has quit ("night everybody") 12:51:11 fordo (~gordo@modem-1616.panther.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 12:51:18 fordo is now known as gordo 12:51:33 Sean? 13:10:09 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:13:50 [Global Notice] Hi all. Non-critical network announcements can be found from time to time on WALLOPS. To tune in, try one of the following commands: /umode +w, /mode +w, /quote mode +w, /rawmode mode +w. Thank you for using OPN and have a great day! 13:39:05 list 13:51:21 Morbus (~Morbus@s115.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 13:52:01 making some progress on the dnn redux 14:13:06 bwahahahaha 14:13:08 this is funny. 14:13:21 just checking out the archives: http://www.disobey.com/dnn/test/2001/02/index.shtml 14:13:37 "This list looks good: decentralization"[@yahoo.com] 14:15:47 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 14:17:41 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:31:44 gordo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:24:12 [Global Notice] Hi all. Non-critical network announcements can be found from time to time on WALLOPS. To tune in, try one of the following commands: /umode +w, /mode +w, /quote mode +w, /rawmode mode +w. Thank you for using OPN and have a great day! 15:43:28 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:50:24 Morbus (~Morbus@s125.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 15:51:08 hey, can someone take a look at soemting? 15:52:15 gordo (~gordo@modem-255.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 16:02:54 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 16:19:29 hey gordo, who are you? 16:19:47 * AaronSw switches out of blunt mode 17:01:36 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-228.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:02:09 kham (kmnguyen@dhcp-29-111.imt.uwm.edu) has joined #swhack 17:02:14 hello all 17:02:22 D:|SQL Query T-Shirt 17:02:26 hello Aaron 17:02:30 titled item D 17:02:33 hi kham 17:02:52 i'm in break during class so I am logging in 17:02:56 cool. 17:03:11 using wireless? 17:03:29 nah, regular hookup 17:03:42 just a terminal at each student desk 17:03:56 nice! 17:04:06 actually, UWM is pretty hooked up 17:04:19 with plenty of computer labs 17:04:38 so as an idea for you to get a group together, how about... 17:04:49 go to one university 17:05:05 That's very expensive. 17:05:19 can be 17:05:47 this UWM is a public university, we have lots of financial aid 17:06:13 hm 17:06:14 if you want me to, I can approach the dean here sometime about hosting you guys 17:06:43 I mean, if we were able to get everyone out here, I'm sure we could find places for them. 17:07:31 let me think on the logistics idea 17:08:33 a lot of people are sort of attached to their current location 17:09:43 that is a good point 17:10:08 we can accommodate them on that 17:10:15 how? 17:10:38 and just have #swhack gettogethers like now. does that work? 17:10:53 well, that's what we do now 17:11:11 we might have to resort to the telephone every once in a while 17:11:21 good point 17:21:08 gordo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:27:07 GabeW (~Gabe@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:34:43 * sbp waves 17:35:03 sean, do you know this gordo fellow? 17:35:11 Gorgon Joly? 17:35:14 er... Gordon 17:35:29 if so, then yes 17:36:53 .google "gordon joly" 17:36:54 "gordon joly": http://www.middx.org.uk/gordo/2tai.html 17:38:08 Any particular reason 17:38:14 he was on earlier 17:38:19 ooh, neat 17:38:21 *** gordo has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:38:24 just afew minutes ago 17:38:30 i have to go, have a good day all 17:38:33 c'ya kham 17:38:34 kham has quit ("Have a good day everyone") 17:38:38 it seems that he lives next door 17:38:38 ah crud, I just missed him? 17:38:49 pardon? 17:41:19 .google "Gordon Joly lives next door" 17:41:19 "Gordon Joly lives next door": http://pobox.com/~gordo 17:41:19 He has a finely-tuned sense of off-beat humor. 17:41:19 he does indeed 17:41:24 yeah, it's a shame that I missed him 17:41:38 it seems all he said was: 17:41:39 2:51:11 fordo (~gordo@modem-1616.panther.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 17:41:39 12:51:18 fordo is now known as gordo 17:41:39 12:51:33 Sean? 17:41:56 heh:- 17:41:57 hey gordo, who are you? 17:41:57 * AaronSw switches out of blunt mode 17:42:40 * AaronSw really needs to take a few color courses 17:42:49 or get some good software or something 17:53:47