IRC log of swhack on 2002-02-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:35 [Morbus]

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00:06:45 [Morbus]

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00:09:33 [Morbus]

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00:17:07 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw passed

00:18:10 [sbp]

great!

00:18:15 [sbp]

what score?

00:20:10 [AaronSw]

28/28

00:20:17 [sbp]

well done

00:20:32 [sbp]

how was it?

00:20:34 [AaronSw]

Heh, it wasn't exactly difficult.

00:21:13 [AaronSw]

"Illinois state law requires all passengers between the ages of 6 and 16 to wear a seatbet. a) True b) False"

00:21:22 [sbp]

heh!

00:21:34 [AaronSw]

Although they did have these fancy touch screen computers running Windows to administer the test.

00:27:37 [AaronSw]

Weird, it seems Guha is hiring and firing everyone.

00:28:03 [AaronSw]

Heh, their website has gotte even less informative.

00:38:57 [AaronSw]

logster, on

00:40:45 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw gets complaints about moving to CSS on his blog

00:40:46 [AaronSw]

"""

00:40:48 [AaronSw]

In theory, it's nice that blind people with Braille readers have better

00:40:48 [AaronSw]

access it your page because of the CSS/Div layout. However, your old site's

00:40:48 [AaronSw]

table-based layout worked much better in practice - for the 99% of people

00:40:49 [AaronSw]

whose browser runs on a desktop computer.

00:40:49 [AaronSw]

"""

00:41:06 [AaronSw]

And he's using (beat) Netscape 4.

00:41:10 [sbp]

heh!

00:41:34 [AaronSw]

"In IE6 it suffers from the annoying stylesheet bug that hits ALA-style sites where your page is cut off until it's refreshed. And I can't even open your page in Netscape6 because that browser always crashes."

00:42:02 [sbp]

I have no problems in IE6

00:42:11 [sbp]

He must be using a different setup

00:46:18 [AaronSw]

What should I suggest? Should he upgrade?

00:46:59 [sbp]

if Ns4.7 is giving him the bulk of the problems, then yes. If it's some other browser, ask him to explain the problem in more detail...

00:47:10 [AaronSw]

I mean for IE6

00:47:20 [sbp]

well, how does one upgrade IE6?

00:47:28 [AaronSw]

I dunno, that's why i'm asking.

00:47:33 [AaronSw]

Is there an IE6.1 or something?

00:47:36 [sbp]

nope

00:47:42 [sbp]

not that I know of

00:48:15 [sbp]

and not according to def consider(pos, list):

00:48:16 [sbp]

"""consider n in a list of numbers. We want to know the product of numbers

00:48:16 [sbp]

before it in the list, and the product after"""

00:48:16 [sbp]

before, after = 1, 1

00:48:16 [sbp]

for x in list[:pos]: before *= x

00:48:16 [sbp]

for x in list[pos:]: after *= x

00:48:18 [sbp]

return before, after

00:48:20 [sbp]

crap

00:48:23 [sbp]

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.asp

00:48:37 [sbp]

you can also tell me why that function doesn't work :-)

00:49:44 [AaronSw]

you do know that it's inclusive, right?

00:49:58 [AaronSw]

well, sorta...

00:50:01 [sbp]

oops, I need to do pos=pos+1

00:50:12 [AaronSw]

or pos += 1

00:50:18 [sbp]

yeah

00:50:23 [sbp]

for x in list[:(pos+1)]: before *= x

00:50:23 [sbp]

for x in list[(pos+1):]: after *= x

00:51:12 [sbp]

argh, before doesn't need the +1

00:51:43 [sbp]

now we're swingin'

00:58:22 [AaronSw]

gotta run: dinner

00:58:26 [sbp]

c'ya

01:09:53 [sbp]

wow: CWM fails my test case

01:11:12 [sbp]

of course, my own engine fails the test case too, but it's well on the way, and actually does better than CWM does now

01:22:56 [AaronSw]

cool

01:25:44 [sbp]

* sbp is currently doing a really long-winded "get all combinations" hack

01:26:00 [sbp]

incredibly, it's working...

01:26:19 [Morbus]

Morbus (~Morbus@s108.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

01:28:39 [sbp]

it worked!

01:29:06 [sbp]

[[[

01:29:06 [sbp]

>>> blargh = [['x', 'y', 'z'], ['a', 'b'], ['p', 'q', 'r']]

01:29:07 [sbp]

>>> paths(blargh)

01:29:07 [sbp]

[['x', 'a', 'p'], ['x', 'a', 'q'], ['x', 'a', 'r'], ['x', 'b', 'p'], ['x', 'b', 'q'], ['x', 'b', 'r'], ['y', 'a', 'p'], ['y', 'a', 'q'], ['y', 'a', 'r'], ['y', 'b', 'p'], ['y', 'b', 'q'], ['y', 'b', 'r'], ['z', 'a', 'p'], ['z', 'a', 'q'], ['z', 'a', 'r'], ['z', 'b', 'p'], ['z', 'b', 'q'], ['z', 'b', 'r']]

01:29:08 [sbp]

>>>

01:29:09 [sbp]

]]]

01:29:33 [deltab]

Cartesian product?

01:30:16 [sbp]

um...

01:30:32 [sbp]

dunno. I tend to just fluke these kind of things :-)

01:31:31 [deltab]

in bash, echo {x,y,z}{a,b}{p,q,r}

01:32:01 [sbp]

aw, man

01:32:33 [sbp]

is there anything in Python that can already handle that?

01:32:53 [deltab]

hmm

01:32:56 [AaronSw]

.google python cartesian product

01:32:57 [xena]

python cartesian product: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/106469

01:33:40 [AaronSw]

for elemself in self.elems:

01:33:40 [AaronSw]

ret.elems.extend([(elemself, elemother) for elemother in other.elems])

01:33:41 [AaronSw]

return ret

01:34:02 [AaronSw]

.py ['x','y','z'] * ['a','b']

01:34:09 [AaronSw]

.py ['x','y','z'] * ['a','b']

01:34:15 [AaronSw]

.py ['x','y','z'] * ['a','b']

01:34:16 [xena]

TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for *

01:34:55 [deltab]

.py [a+b+c for a in 'xyz' for b in 'ab' for c in 'pqr']

01:35:00 [deltab]

.py [a+b+c for a in 'xyz' for b in 'ab' for c in 'pqr']

01:35:01 [xena]

['xap', 'xaq', 'xar', 'xbp', 'xbq', 'xbr', 'yap', 'yaq', 'yar', 'ybp', 'ybq', 'ybr', 'zap', 'zaq', 'zar', 'zbp', 'zbq', 'zbr']

01:35:29 [sbp]

ah, but there you know the length of the list

01:35:52 [sbp]

try doing that for {abc}{def}{gh}{ijklm}{no}{pqr}

01:36:08 [sbp]

or any arbitrary list

01:36:15 [sbp]

* sbp tries it using paths

01:36:29 [deltab]

paths?

01:36:37 [sbp]

the function I just wrote

01:36:42 [deltab]

oh

01:37:11 [sbp]

Hmm... I'll get a 540 len(list) result

01:39:01 [AaronSw]

hey Morbus -- can you see if rss.blogspace.com is any faster now? i just upgraded things

01:39:02 [sbp]

heh, it worked...

01:39:23 [Morbus]

welp, i just got it pretty quick now

01:39:29 [AaronSw]

Cool.

01:39:34 [sbp]

>>> len(paths([['a', 'b', 'c'], ['d', 'e', 'f'], ['g', 'h'], ['i', 'j', 'k', 'l', 'm'], ['n', 'o'], ['p', 'q', 'r']]))

01:39:34 [sbp]

540

01:39:34 [sbp]

>>>

01:40:06 [AaronSw]

sbp, paths(a, b, c) == paths(paths(a, b), c)

01:40:14 [AaronSw]

if you want to use deltab's thing

01:40:26 [AaronSw]

hmm, maybe that's not right

01:40:34 [sbp]

currying?

01:41:01 [AaronSw]

man, regexps are slow

01:41:14 [sbp]

installing some stuff, gotta restart...

01:41:16 [AaronSw]

takes 25 secs to parse glenn's blog

01:41:18 [Morbus]

mmhmm.

01:42:11 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wonders if he can log off these folks who have been connected to his machine since Jun

01:42:22 [AaronSw]

239 days 22 hours idle

01:42:46 [Morbus]

long download.

01:42:49 [Morbus]

give em a few hours.

01:42:54 [AaronSw]

lol

01:43:23 [AaronSw]

gotta run: first drive

01:45:23 [sbp]

ooh, lucky him

01:45:25 [sbp]

he'd better blog that

01:47:24 [tansaku]

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02:00:56 [Morbus]

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02:04:46 [Morbus]

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02:05:16 [Morbus]

ok. this sucks ass.

02:05:26 [Morbus]

i'm trying to export my blogger so I can move it to MT, right?

02:05:36 [Morbus]

i can't export more than 999 days ago.

02:05:38 [Morbus]

now what the hell am i gonna do.

02:06:12 [Morbus]

dammit!

02:06:14 [Morbus]

the export only goes back to 5/19/2000.

02:06:16 [Morbus]

aw, man, this sucks ass.

02:08:37 [tansaku]

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02:09:20 [tansaku2]

tansaku2 is now known as tansaku

02:09:22 [Morbus]

i'm gonna have to do this manually.

02:09:54 [Morbus]

that just burns my toast.

02:14:43 [Morbus]

wow. i'm done.

02:14:48 [Morbus]

i only started using blogger in 2000.

02:14:50 [Morbus]

sigh.

02:14:53 [Morbus]

i need a swhack

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02:25:42 [kmacleod]

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02:25:45 [kmacleod]

Aaron?

02:30:18 [sbp]

he's out driving

02:37:31 [kmacleod]

thx

02:37:37 [kmacleod]

kmacleod has quit ("Leaving")

02:42:44 [AaronSw]

whoo! dopamine!

02:44:18 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw blogs...

02:45:58 [AaronSw]

done

02:48:52 [jeremiah]

haha

02:49:06 [sbp]

Aaron: the query engine works, and it does transitive closure!

02:49:11 [AaronSw]

whoo!

02:49:43 [sbp]

you drove home: great!

02:49:52 [sbp]

mark the calendar :-)

02:49:53 [sbp]

.time

02:49:54 [xena]

2002/02/08 02:51:32.1553 Universal

02:49:54 [AaronSw]

did you get your cartesian product thing working? cuz there's http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~steriana/Python/permute.py

02:50:04 [AaronSw]

swhack is my calendar ;)

02:50:05 [sbp]

yeah, the cartesian product thing works fine

02:50:10 [sbp]

:-)

02:50:21 [sbp]

<sbp> print xtquery(eep.parse("""?x <#sonOf> ?y .

02:50:21 [sbp]

<sbp> ?y <#sonOf> ?z ."""),

02:50:22 [sbp]

<sbp> eep.parse("""<#Bob> <#sonOf> <#Fred> .

02:50:22 [sbp]

<sbp> <#Fred> <#sonOf> <#John> .

02:50:22 [sbp]

<sbp> <#John> <#sonOf> <#Wayne> ."""))

02:50:29 [sbp]

result:-

02:50:29 [sbp]

<sbp> <#Bob> <#sonOf> <#Fred> .

02:50:29 [sbp]

<sbp> <#Fred> <#sonOf> <#John> .

02:50:29 [sbp]

<sbp> --

02:50:30 [sbp]

<sbp> <#Fred> <#sonOf> <#John> .

02:50:32 [sbp]

<sbp> <#John> <#sonOf> <#Wayne> .

02:50:54 [sbp]

it uses the Eep RDF API because it's a bit simpler, but this time I think porting won't be as much of a problem

02:51:30 [AaronSw]

wow, and does it reparse the store every time?

02:51:38 [sbp]

heh, heh. No

02:56:41 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw kills the 295 day idlers

03:04:27 [Morbus]

Morbus (~Morbus@s117.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

03:05:03 [Morbus]

AaronSw, i need your help

03:05:25 [AaronSw]

the golden triple: { :you ?act :other . :other ?act :you . }

03:05:29 [AaronSw]

what's up, morb?

03:05:51 [Morbus]

can you check the perms on your /System/Library/CoreServices folder?

03:05:57 [Morbus]

i did a drive cleaning with diskwarrior, and now i can't get into classic

03:06:05 [Morbus]

due to not having adequate permissions in that dir

03:06:14 [AaronSw]

ugh.

03:06:18 [AaronSw]

permissions on the dir itself?

03:06:28 [AaronSw]

drwxr-xr-x 35 root wheel 1146 Dec 20 19:03 CoreServices

03:07:39 [Morbus]

what about:

03:07:39 [Morbus]

-rwsr-xr-x 1 root wheel 476740 Sep 17 14:04 /System/Library/CoreServices/Classic Startup.app/Contents/Resources/TruBlueEnvironment

03:08:24 [AaronSw]

-rwsr-xr-x 1 root wheel 476800

03:08:37 [Morbus]

hrm.

03:09:58 [Morbus]

you don't have sufficient perms to run Classic from System/Library/CoreServices.

03:10:01 [Morbus]

same thing.

03:10:38 [AaronSw]

is this in iConsole?

03:10:42 [AaronSw]

(Console.app)

03:10:46 [Morbus]

heh, yeah.

03:13:11 [Morbus]

well, this doesn't help, but is good to know: http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Essentials/SystemOverview/BootingLogin/The_Boot_Sequence.html

03:14:00 [AaronSw]

tried googling on the error?

03:14:16 [Morbus]

yeah, some matches in macfixit, but their archives are pay now

03:14:27 [AaronSw]

read the cached version

03:19:43 [Morbus]

this is not cool

03:20:13 [Morbus]

hmm: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:38JR1PvGdxsC:www.magicvillage.de/magicvillage/computercenter/software/Hotline/Mac%2520OS%2520X/MacOSX-ML/%252347131943+sufficient+permissions+run+Classic+from+System/Library/CoreServices&hl=en

03:20:20 [Morbus]

maybe i should try booting into classic.

03:20:36 [AaronSw]

i've never used classic, and i'm just fine

03:20:46 [Morbus]

i need it for testing MacPerl/Ampheta.

03:20:52 [AaronSw]

ah

03:21:22 [Morbus]

drwxr-xr-x 41 morbus unknown 1350 Feb 1 21:48 System Folder

03:21:26 [Morbus]

heh, i wonder if that's the problem.

03:21:45 [Morbus]

can you just check /System/Library/CoreServices for me - are all your files in there root:wheel?

03:22:25 [AaronSw]

everything in that directory is, yes

03:22:30 [Morbus]

sigh, nope

03:22:55 [AaronSw]

drwxr-xr-x 47 aaronsw unknown 1554 Dec 25 06:10 System Folder

03:23:07 [Morbus]

poo

03:23:18 [AaronSw]

but i've never really run classic on here, so it may be screwed up for me too

03:23:28 [Morbus]

well, go try ;)

03:23:37 [AaronSw]

i think i'll pass :0

03:24:25 [AaronSw]

i think a reboot is your best bet

03:28:00 [Morbus]

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03:31:31 [tansaku]

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03:43:57 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw plays with MT some more

03:44:03 [AaronSw]

anyone want to get my blog by email?

03:46:51 [tansaku]

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04:24:05 [Morbus]

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04:25:33 [Morbus]

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04:29:14 [AaronSw]

.dns 63.173.138.120

04:29:15 [xena]

63.173.138.120 - s90.terminal3.totalnetnh.net

04:29:20 [AaronSw]

howdy

04:29:24 [Morbus]

mmm

04:30:22 [AaronSw]

your server says nxdomain

04:30:30 [Morbus]

huh?

04:30:33 [AaronSw]

server.totalnetnh.net, good name for it, btw ;)

04:30:39 [Morbus]

heh :)

04:30:50 [Morbus]

nxdomain?

04:30:58 [sbp]

<AaronSw> anyone want to get my blog by email?

04:30:59 [sbp]

yeah, me

04:31:05 [Morbus]

i do.

04:31:06 [AaronSw]

it doesn't seem to have reverse DNS

04:31:09 [AaronSw]

ooh, cool

04:31:09 [Morbus]

actually, no i dont.

04:31:13 [AaronSw]

heh

04:31:16 [Morbus]

what, my server? sure it does.

04:31:31 [AaronSw]

not when i ask it

04:31:35 [AaronSw]

maybe i'm asking wrong

04:31:40 [Morbus]

oh? show me.

04:32:04 [AaronSw]

$ dig 63.173.138.120 @newsserver.totalnetnh.net

04:32:04 [AaronSw]

returns nxdomain (i.e. i dunno)

04:32:12 [AaronSw]

or never heard of it

04:32:27 [Morbus]

ooOh.

04:32:31 [Morbus]

do nslookup server.totalnetnh.net

04:32:37 [Morbus]

and nslookup 63.173.138.16

04:32:51 [AaronSw]

Non-authoritative answer:

04:32:51 [AaronSw]

16.138.173.63.in-addr.arpa name = server.totalnetnh.net.

04:33:01 [Morbus]

mmhmm

04:33:06 [Morbus]

thats as it should be

04:33:24 [AaronSw]

but server.totalnetnh.net doesn't seem to be responding right

04:33:34 [AaronSw]

ok, sbp, you've been added

04:33:41 [sbp]

thanks

04:33:51 [Morbus]

what do you get?

04:34:18 [AaronSw]

i just get 16.138.173.63.in-addr.arpa name = server.totalnetnh.net.

04:34:18 [AaronSw]

and no response

04:34:42 [Morbus]

yeah, that's the right ip and dns.

04:35:38 [AaronSw]

The nice thing about static rendering is that you get great speed and caching support

04:39:17 [Morbus]

* Morbus reads "Weblogs Help" on ORA.

04:42:11 [Morbus]

hey AaronSw, can you drive me to the store? i'm hungry.

04:42:24 [AaronSw]

yeah, sure, just meet me at my place

04:42:28 [sbp]

heh, heh

04:42:30 [Morbus]

mmkay

04:42:42 [sbp]

I have a license, you could drive with me!

04:42:58 [Morbus]

yeah, but, you're a loser.

04:43:07 [Morbus]

me and AaronSw, we're like *this*

04:43:15 [sbp]

like what?

04:43:17 [AaronSw]

this being a special keyword in cwm

04:43:26 [sbp]

ah. Like the root context

04:44:18 [Morbus]

what are the nonstandard margin body tags again?

04:44:25 [Morbus]

margintop right, topmargin leftmargin?

04:44:38 [sbp]

topmargin

04:44:43 [sbp]

etc.

04:44:53 [sbp]

[top|left|right|bottom]margin

04:44:54 [Morbus]

yeah, but there are two sets. one for ie and one for ns.

04:44:59 [sbp]

oh

04:45:05 [sbp]

dunno, then. I don't use them

04:45:18 [Morbus]

neither do i, but at the moment, i'm too damn lazy to make a stylesheet.

04:45:23 [AaronSw]

hereswherenscanstickitsmargin

04:45:38 [sbp]

body { margin: 1em; } is difficult/

04:45:47 [sbp]

s%/%?%

04:46:11 [Morbus]

hey sbp, don't try to udnerstand me man, i'm like *this*

04:46:28 [sbp]

I wonder if anyone's called under?

04:46:34 [sbp]

s/under/udner/

04:47:15 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/phones/phones.jsp?id=23194900

04:47:16 [sbp]

.google "Mr. Udner"

04:47:17 [xena]

no results found.

04:47:21 [sbp]

.google "Mrs. Udner"

04:47:22 [xena]

no results found.

04:47:25 [sbp]

.google "Miss. Udner"

04:47:26 [xena]

no results found.

04:47:29 [chumpster]

A: http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/phones/phones.jsp?id=23194900 from AaronSw

04:47:33 [sbp]

.google "Henry Udner"

04:47:33 [xena]

no results found.

04:47:35 [sbp]

blargh

04:47:37 [AaronSw]

A:|Write here, write now

04:47:39 [chumpster]

titled item A

04:48:01 [AaronSw]

A::Making all the world a bulletin board, using GPS

04:48:03 [chumpster]

commented item A

04:48:44 [AaronSw]

.google hp cooltown

04:48:45 [xena]

hp cooltown: http://www.cooltown.hp.com

04:49:00 [sbp]

CoolTown has been in the news a lot

04:49:04 [AaronSw]

A::An offspring of HP's [CoolTown project|http://www.cooltown.hp.com] in which all the world is assigned a URI.

04:49:05 [chumpster]

commented item A

04:49:38 [AaronSw]

A::"CoolTown is now a joint venture between HP's labs in Palo Alto and Bristol. The idea of giving every bit of empty space its own Web page only came last year, when Bristol University student Alistair Mann came to HP to work on his master's degree project."

04:49:41 [chumpster]

commented item A

04:50:07 [AaronSw]

.google loughborough rdf ambient

04:50:08 [xena]

loughborough rdf ambient: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001Feb/0013.html

04:50:50 [sbp]

http://uwimp.com/info.htm

04:51:15 [AaronSw]

A::Sounds a lot like WL's idea of [ambient information|http://uwimp.com/eo.htm].

04:51:16 [chumpster]

commented item A

04:51:22 [sbp]

ah, eo...

04:52:23 [sbp]

that's a wonderful little page, that

04:52:30 [AaronSw]

true

04:52:38 [sbp]

which reminds me: I was going to compile a "coolest pages on the Web" thing

04:56:20 [Morbus]

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05:01:26 [sbp]

* sbp does so

05:08:53 [AaronSw]

Wow, CoolTown is really cool. Too bad the sound doesn't seem to work

05:21:37 [tansaku]

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05:29:01 [AaronSw]

Heh, this cooltown stuff is great.

05:29:12 [AaronSw]

corporate science fiction -- i love this stuff.

05:30:10 [AaronSw]

[paramedics rush in]

05:30:10 [AaronSw]

Paramedic 1: No just a sec -- let me pull up her URL.

05:38:41 [sbp]

heh, heh

05:39:40 [sbp]

now this is good - the query engine is smaller than your API (and my API):-

05:39:40 [sbp]

Palmer@Y0R1D9 /home/tools

05:39:41 [sbp]

$ wc query.py

05:39:41 [sbp]

98 422 3319 query.py

05:39:53 [sbp]

I moved the tests out :-)

05:40:17 [sbp]

oh, and I used that short cp function - it's in the public domain

05:42:19 [deus_x]

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05:43:36 [deltab]

I get 404 on that

05:43:43 [sbp]

on what?

05:43:50 [deltab]

query.py

05:44:00 [sbp]

oh... try again: http://infomesh.net/2002/02-08eep/query.txt

05:44:00 [deltab]

following the link from the listing

05:44:09 [sbp]

I was just replacing it :-)

05:44:18 [sbp]

managed to take out a couple more lines

05:44:22 [deltab]

why doesn't it work with .py?

05:44:29 [sbp]

96 421 3301 query.py

05:44:38 [sbp]

I think the server will interpret it as a CGI

05:44:46 [sbp]

or it'll send it as octets

05:45:29 [sbp]

yep: Content-Type: application/octet-stream

05:45:53 [deltab]

do you have access to the server to change that?

05:46:00 [sbp]

I used to

05:46:11 [deltab]

ah

05:46:16 [sbp]

I added a few types: .n3, .svg etc.

05:47:08 [deltab]

if it was an Apache server you could use .htaccess to override types

05:47:28 [sbp]

indeed. But it's not

05:48:15 [sbp]

I can use ASP to serve out whatever content type I like... but you have to have .asp, or put it as the default directory file

05:53:03 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. In a few moments we'll be starting open proxy detection and we'll be blocking users who appear to be on open proxies. We've been auditing the list and we shouldn't lose too many people. But please write to support@openprojects.net if you have a problem and we'll try to help. Thanks.

05:53:19 [sbp]

* sbp sends to www-archive

05:58:20 [AaronSw]

Hmm, i don't like stuff like that, but I suppose things'll work out in the end.

05:58:42 [sbp]

stuff like what?

05:59:07 [AaronSw]

like blocking proxies

05:59:14 [sbp]

yeah

06:02:09 [sbp]

Gotta run

06:02:58 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi again all. Starting the proxy detector. Please email support@openprojects.net with any questions or problems.

06:09:17 [AaronSw]

nite all

06:11:58 [AaronSw]

telecon tomorrow

06:12:05 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is away: sleeping

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06:30:49 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. Just an afterward. Out of about 4,700 users, we've lost 7 in a complete scan for open proxies. The scanner is a bit conservative though, and will occasionally kill someone out with a proxy that only appears to be open. If you know anyone with a problem, please have them email support@openprojects.net. Thanks for your understanding.

06:37:03 [rillian]

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07:17:58 [rillian]

"all cheeses are go"

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09:46:00 [rillian]

netsplit!

09:47:18 [rillian]

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14:28:32 [Morbus]

hello springfield!

14:38:13 [AaronSw]

IRC has an awful lot of lines: I-lines, K-lines, O-lines... how many more are there?

14:38:57 [Morbus]

i have no clue.

14:39:02 [Morbus]

i know very little about irc.

14:39:11 [Morbus]

* Morbus turns away to sign his ORA contract.

14:39:34 [AaronSw]

Heh.

14:39:52 [AaronSw]

So does Tim O'Reilly drive up with a humongous check and shout "YOU'VE WON!!"

14:40:02 [Morbus]

that'd be flipping hilarious.

14:40:04 [deltab]

about an alphabetful

14:40:16 [AaronSw]

ugh: "The Monkey Buddy program has ended, and we've determined that you have

14:40:16 [AaronSw]

won a Ximian T-shirt!"

14:40:29 [AaronSw]

I went thru all that trouble to create 4000 fake accounts and all i get is a stupid t-shirt?

14:40:36 [AaronSw]

i wanted the monkies!

14:40:57 [Morbus]

ooOoh. i want the t-shirt.

14:41:06 [Morbus]

i'll trade you a bbedit macworld special shirt for your monkey shirt.

14:41:14 [Morbus]

it says "mom loves the regexp flavor" or some such

14:41:27 [AaronSw]

i already have a BBEdit WWDC t-shirt -- that's way better.

14:41:34 [AaronSw]

i won in "Stump the Experts"

14:41:43 [Morbus]

what's the wwdc shirt look like?

14:41:58 [Morbus]

how about a vintage blogger t-shirt, given before they were sold publically?

14:42:11 [AaronSw]

I forget, it's got like "It Doesn't Suck" scribbled with something

14:42:20 [Morbus]

http://store.barebones.com/shirts.html

14:42:24 [Morbus]

that one? that sucks <g>

14:42:42 [AaronSw]

i still won "Stump the Experts"!

14:42:44 [Morbus]

the one i have has a vintage 60's ad mom holding up a plate of something, and sayiing "mom loves the regexp flavor" and something else.

14:42:50 [Morbus]

what was the question?

14:42:55 [Morbus]

i've never been to a tech con. i suck

14:43:00 [AaronSw]

"Who is the youngest developer here tonight?"

14:43:01 [AaronSw]

;-)

14:43:06 [Morbus]

AaronSw, maybe someday you can drive up here and drive me down to one.

14:43:10 [Morbus]

bwahahah, really? that rocks <g>

14:43:10 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh

14:43:24 [AaronSw]

That's such a fun game show.

14:45:34 [Morbus]

AaronSw, where do you live?

14:45:44 [AaronSw]

outside of chicago

14:45:54 [Morbus]

ah, yeah, then you can come up and get me.

14:45:57 [Morbus]

we'll got to etcon.

14:46:18 [AaronSw]

i think it might work out better if you got me ;)

14:46:29 [Morbus]

pff. i don't drive, and i don't have a car, and i don't want a car.

14:46:45 [Morbus]

and i hate travelling too.

14:46:58 [Morbus]

thats why you need to come get me.

14:50:03 [AaronSw]

hmm

15:03:28 [AaronSw]

heh

15:06:06 [Morbus]

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17:23:34 [sbp]

* sbp waves

17:34:01 [Morbus]

hey sbp!

17:34:46 [sbp]

hello

17:37:29 [sbp]

* sbp adds the ability to spew out the variables in query.py in about 30-seconds flat

17:38:37 [sbp]

now I just need to make it backwards compatable with the functionality of yesterday

17:40:56 [sbp]

done!

18:05:34 [sbp]

* sbp sets about to write an inference engine

18:22:50 [rillian]

rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack

18:32:08 [sbp]

it works!

18:32:08 [sbp]

hooray!

18:34:47 [sbp]

the rulebase:-

18:34:47 [sbp]

[store]

18:34:47 [sbp]

store = eep.parse("""<#Sean> <#likes> <#TheSimpsons> .

18:34:47 [sbp]

<#Sean> <#likes> <#TheSemanticWeb> .

18:34:47 [sbp]

<#Aaron> <#name> "Aaron" .

18:34:47 [sbp]

<#Aaron> <#likes> <#ThePlex> .

18:34:49 [sbp]

<#Sean> <#name> "Sean" .""")

18:34:51 [sbp]

the inference rule:-

18:34:53 [sbp]

r = rule('?x <#name> ?y .\n?x <#likes> ?z .', # log:implies

18:34:55 [sbp]

'?z <#likedBy> ?y .')

18:34:57 [sbp]

and the result:-

18:34:59 [sbp]

[[[<#TheSimpsons>, <#likedBy>, "Sean"]], [[<#TheSemanticWeb>, <#likedBy>, "Sean"]], [[<#ThePlex>, <#likedBy>, "Aaron"]]]

18:35:02 [sbp]

the size of the inference engine [with tests]:-

18:35:04 [sbp]

$ wc infer.py

18:35:06 [sbp]

42 168 1326 infer.py

18:35:08 [sbp]

that's a good bit of work :-)

18:35:10 [sbp]

Hmm... let's try a more complex test case with transitive closure

18:35:52 [sbp]

ooh, it worked

18:36:03 [sbp]

the KB:-0

18:36:07 [sbp]

s/0//

18:36:08 [sbp]

store = eep.parse("""<#Bob> <#sonOf> <#Fred> .

18:36:09 [sbp]

<#Fred> <#sonOf> <#John> .

18:36:09 [sbp]

<#John> <#sonOf> <#Wayne> .""")

18:36:15 [sbp]

the rule:-

18:36:15 [sbp]

r = rule('?x <#sonOf> ?y .\n?y <#sonOf> ?z .', # log:implies

18:36:16 [sbp]

'?x <#grandchildOf> ?z .')

18:36:18 [sbp]

and the result:-

18:36:26 [sbp]

[[[<#Bob>, <#grandchildOf>, <#John>]], [[<#Fred>, <#grandchildOf>, <#Wayne>]]]

18:37:29 [sbp]

eep.py, query.py, and infer.py are 240 lines and 9KB in total :-)

18:37:38 [sbp]

s/240/249/

18:37:58 [sbp]

currently, the inference engine only filters

18:38:05 [sbp]

I'll add "append" too

18:38:15 [sbp]

and replace would be nice - CWM doesn't have that

18:40:09 [rillian]

@ http://www.achrn.demon.co.uk/ian/caspar.html

18:40:16 [chumpster]

B: http://www.achrn.demon.co.uk/ian/caspar.html from rillian

18:41:28 [rillian]

B:|Caspar the puffer fish

18:41:32 [chumpster]

titled item B

18:41:40 [rillian]

B::these links just find us

18:41:41 [chumpster]

commented item B

18:52:00 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw thinks rillian has some secret link source

18:54:14 [rillian]

luck for you, I share the results

18:54:20 [rillian]

maybe the karma will follow :)

18:54:56 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh

18:55:40 [sbp]

* sbp writes that append function

19:10:08 [Morbus]

* Morbus stretches.

19:13:05 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/features/2002/0208/485816685ATFRIPOP.html

19:13:12 [chumpster]

C: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/features/2002/0208/485816685ATFRIPOP.html from AaronSw

19:13:19 [AaronSw]

C:|Whole lot of makin' going on

19:13:20 [chumpster]

titled item C

19:13:35 [AaronSw]

C::How to make your own pop-band. (Hint: It's not exactly hard.)

19:13:38 [chumpster]

commented item C

19:17:23 [AaronSw]

C::"You can write the most contrived drivel for a boy band and sell millions, because teenage girls are in love with the members. They say love is blind. It's also deaf."

19:17:24 [chumpster]

commented item C

19:25:43 [Morbus]

chumpster, i love you.

19:26:01 [Morbus]

do you have any pudding pie for the morbster?

19:28:40 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wonders why decaf weed is so funny

19:30:06 [Morbus]

decaf weed?

19:30:08 [Morbus]

you take weed?

19:30:10 [Morbus]

--1

19:30:17 [AaronSw]

who said i took weed?

19:30:34 [Morbus]

you know, i have no clue what i read from you.

19:30:53 [AaronSw]

I just don't think it's all that funny.

19:31:05 [Morbus]

but i saw decaf weed, and i immediately thought of you with dreds, baggy pants, and smoking a blunt in one hand whilst typing chatoic lovesongs to chumpster.

19:31:10 [Morbus]

bad coffee this morning, i think

19:31:14 [Morbus]

i detract my stupidity.

19:31:18 [Morbus]

* Morbus coughs.

19:31:26 [Morbus]

so. decaf weed? yeah, that is pretty damn funny.

19:31:33 [Morbus]

next you know, they'll have cocaine with weightloss.

19:32:33 [Morbus]

yeah, i know. i'm being dumb.

19:32:42 [Morbus]

so did you hear of this decentralized CVS?

19:32:43 [AaronSw]

Yep.

19:33:00 [Morbus]

what do you think?

19:33:16 [AaronSw]

err, the yep was to you being dumb.

19:33:22 [AaronSw]

no, i haven't heard of the cvs

19:33:25 [Morbus]

ah.

19:33:30 [Morbus]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/05/2155215&mode=thread

19:36:00 [AaronSw]

cool. seems sort of obvious tho

19:40:52 [AaronSw]

Cool, mac.scripting.com picked up my PluckyX story.

19:40:58 [Morbus]

you sent that to them?

19:41:11 [AaronSw]

Meme path: ? -> Me -> Roland Tanglao -> ViewFromTheHeart -> mac.scripting.com

19:41:19 [Morbus]

i sent him the first two apache articles, and he's been beating me to the right.

19:41:33 [Morbus]

on a side note, AaronSw, is plex a knowledge base sort of thing?

19:41:39 [AaronSw]

yeah

19:41:46 [Morbus]

one of my later series at ora is gonna be about a mysql/php app

19:41:55 [Morbus]

and i want to do a simplistic knowledge base thingy.

19:42:04 [Morbus]

i don't really have anything better.

19:42:28 [AaronSw]

heh, ok

19:42:31 [Morbus]

i could do a cataloging project i wanted to do for a while, but i don't want to base something so important (to me) on mysql/php

19:43:33 [Morbus]

you have anything you'd want to see coded? in php/mysql? ;)

19:43:48 [AaronSw]

might want to store it in RDF ;)

19:43:53 [Morbus]

argh <g.

19:53:37 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.masshightech.com/displayarticledetail.asp?Art_ID=54496

19:53:48 [chumpster]

D: http://www.masshightech.com/displayarticledetail.asp?Art_ID=54496 from AaronSw

19:54:06 [AaronSw]

D:|ArsDigita closes shop, sells assets to Red Hat

19:54:08 [chumpster]

titled item D

19:54:17 [AaronSw]

D::Red Hat?! Of all the...

19:54:19 [chumpster]

commented item D

19:55:21 [AaronSw]

D::Get the [FC Commentary|http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/index.php?newsid=82497&page=7&parentid=0&crapfilter=1]

19:55:23 [chumpster]

commented item D

20:08:22 [sbp]

* sbp waves

20:10:20 [Morbus]

hey

20:10:51 [Morbus]

sbp: you'll be happy to know that i've devised my bad joke/puzzle for my first weblog entry.

20:11:07 [Morbus]

one paragraph, four names in tech.

20:11:13 [Morbus]

that's the basis.

20:11:16 [Morbus]

you'll see it next week.

20:11:35 [sbp]

ooh :-

20:11:37 [sbp]

:-)

20:12:05 [AaronSw]

McCusker wants to work at Google: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newFeb02.htm#07feb02-google

20:13:13 [sbp]

Hmm... apply works well, but it doesn't gesitate to add duplicate triples to the store. I need to add an "addTriple" function, I suppose

20:13:48 [Morbus]

gesitate? what a great word.

20:13:51 [Morbus]

what's it mean, though?

20:13:55 [sbp]

heh, heh

20:13:56 [Morbus]

a hesitating gesture?

20:13:57 [AaronSw]

.wn gesitate

20:14:05 [Morbus]

like, "holy fuck! don't open that doo... no wait, never mind!"

20:14:06 [Morbus]

<G>

20:14:18 [sbp]

lol

20:14:46 [sbp]

Swhack: a new word every day

20:14:54 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

20:15:14 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: A new word every day. Don't gesitate now.

20:15:22 [sbp]

:-)

20:15:50 [sbp]

Hmm... "--think" is going to be really difficult

20:15:51 [Morbus]

AaronSw: are you using snak 4.82? 483 is out, and it fixes the damn extra bad char that i'm seeing everytime you set the topic.

20:16:02 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: A new word every day. Don't gesitate now.

20:16:09 [Morbus]

yeah, see, i don't see it when he does it.

20:16:13 [AaronSw]

It's a color character.

20:16:14 [Morbus]

its definitely yer snak

20:16:17 [sbp]

* sbp deleted it

20:16:20 [AaronSw]

it's your client

20:16:28 [Morbus]

how come i don't see the color at home, then?

20:16:28 [AaronSw]

it makes the text black

20:16:37 [Morbus]

did sbp not make it black?

20:16:41 [sbp]

The character doesn't come up for me in mIRC, but it does appear in the logs

20:16:41 [AaronSw]

yeah

20:16:43 [Morbus]

why didn't i see it when he did it?

20:16:55 [AaronSw]

because he didn't make it black

20:17:03 [Morbus]

what color did he make it?

20:17:07 [AaronSw]

colorless

20:17:10 [sbp]

lol

20:17:17 [Morbus]

so why are you being a nerdy bitch? <g>

20:17:20 [Morbus]

make it colorless! :)

20:17:22 [AaronSw]

None

20:17:33 [AaronSw]

sbp, that's because mIRC's designer has trouble working with other humans

20:17:40 [AaronSw]

.google ircle mirc

20:17:41 [xena]

ircle mirc: http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/mac

20:17:45 [AaronSw]

.google ircle mirc colors

20:17:47 [xena]

ircle mirc colors: http://www.ircle.com/betareadme.shtml

20:18:10 [Morbus]

hey, sbp, do you have any ideas what sort of app i should create via php/mysql for the ora articles?

20:18:13 [AaronSw]

i'm looking for http://www.ircle.com/colorfaq.shtml

20:18:31 [sbp]

yeah: an RDF database front-end

20:18:41 [Morbus]

i hate both of you, you know that.

20:18:52 [AaronSw]

Don't worry, we hate you too.

20:18:58 [Morbus]

ok. cool.

20:19:08 [Morbus]

but, if it's any consolation, i'd eat sbp first.

20:19:12 [Morbus]

AaronSw's too small.

20:20:46 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh!

20:24:49 [AaronSw]

a 9test is this 2word3 and 4this 5one

20:24:58 [Morbus]

stop that.

20:25:07 [AaronSw]

heh, they're all rainbowy on my machine

20:25:10 [Morbus]

colors are for people who play with barbies.

20:25:17 [Morbus]

;)

20:25:52 [sbp]

be un-barbie-player-like: read a newspaper

20:26:13 [Morbus]

ew. i dont like newspapers.

20:26:27 [Morbus]

afk

21:09:57 [Morbus]

back

21:15:33 [sbp]

wb

21:17:00 [Morbus]

thankee.

21:17:03 [Morbus]

my stupid rsync broke.

21:17:04 [Morbus]

sigh.

21:17:15 [Morbus]

got about 3/4 of the way through, and then started choking on the disobey log files.

21:17:19 [Morbus]

dunno what the problem with that one is.

21:26:02 [AaronSw]

Ugh, I've been sterotyped. In Joel's book: "Mike, a 16-year-old who runs Linux at home, talks on IRC for hours, and uses no "Micro$oft" software."

21:26:46 [sbp]

heh!

21:28:35 [Morbus]

!!!

21:28:37 [Morbus]

bwahahahah.aha.

21:31:30 [Morbus]

AaronSw, you need to write a book.

21:31:36 [Morbus]

you need to do something memorable to break the stereotype.

21:31:55 [AaronSw]

writing a book is memorable?

21:32:14 [Morbus]

more so than irc chat transcripts, i believe.

21:32:29 [sbp]

publish the #swhack archives as a book

21:32:39 [sbp]

no one will cotton on

21:32:49 [AaronSw]

That sounds like something Ellsworth Toohey would do.

21:32:58 [Morbus]

i want royalities.

21:33:07 [Morbus]

no wait, i wanna write the forward.

21:33:17 [AaronSw]

But I already promised Dave!

21:33:21 [sbp]

I wanna write the backward

21:33:22 [Morbus]

i'll talk about how i coddled you like a ...

21:33:27 [Morbus]

you know. this dave thing is driving me nuts.

21:33:33 [Morbus]

what have i done to deserve this, AaronSw?

21:33:38 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh, heh

21:33:51 [AaronSw]

It's not my fault you keep copying him.

21:33:57 [Morbus]

i keep copying him?

21:33:59 [Morbus]

like how?

21:34:06 [AaronSw]

He starts a weblog, you start a weblog

21:34:14 [AaronSw]

He writes a foreward, you write a foreward

21:34:18 [Morbus]

what? i had a weblog in 98, you fool.

21:34:28 [AaronSw]

He had one in 1902!

21:34:33 [Morbus]

and around that time, having one was like copying everyone.

21:34:47 [Morbus]

heck, me and wes and dan and cam copied that guy under that logic

21:34:56 [Morbus]

nowadays, its like "you got a site? no. i got me a weblog. yay!"

21:35:10 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw continues

21:35:19 [AaronSw]

He writes an RSS aggregator, you write an RSS aggregator

21:35:32 [Morbus]

yup, true.

21:35:37 [AaronSw]

He gets talked about on O'Reilly.com, you write something for O'Reilly.com

21:35:43 [Morbus]

although, it wasn't in total response.

21:35:52 [Morbus]

i had been using aggregators/portals before he came out with RU.

21:35:52 [AaronSw]

He goes to Davos, you go to the comic book store

21:35:58 [Morbus]

what the hell is davos, anyways?

21:36:07 [Morbus]

writing and talking are not comparable

21:36:11 [sbp]

the head Dalek, isn't he?

21:36:17 [AaronSw]

It's a place in Switzerland.

21:36:18 [Morbus]

yeaaah.

21:36:20 [sbp]

.google Davos the Dalek

21:36:21 [xena]

Davos the Dalek: http://www.nettime.org/nettime.w3archive/199901/msg00046.html

21:36:39 [sbp]

yeah, it's quite a famous ski-resort: Prince Charles goes there, I think

21:36:56 [Morbus]

well, jeez.

21:37:04 [Morbus]

i gota send an email and see if me and dave can get nekkid and go.

21:37:25 [sbp]

.google Davos the Ski-Resort

21:37:26 [xena]

Davos the Ski-Resort: http://www.ifyouski.fr

21:37:48 [Morbus]

.google davos and dave winer sitting in a tree

21:37:49 [AaronSw]

.google davos

21:37:49 [xena]

davos and dave winer sitting in a tree: http://www.nqpaofu.com/2000/nqpaofu24.html

21:37:49 [xena]

davos: http://www.davos.ch

21:38:19 [AaronSw]

.google sucks rules o meter

21:38:19 [Morbus]

can we mod xena so she always returns the cached version?

21:38:20 [xena]

sucks rules o meter: http://srom.zgp.org

21:38:31 [Morbus]

i'm sick of FINDing the keywords in large bodies of text ;)

21:38:45 [AaronSw]

lazy jerk

21:38:48 [AaronSw]

;-)

21:39:25 [Morbus]

hehehe

21:50:31 [danbri]

danbri (~danbri@h0050ba016e0d.ne.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack

21:51:09 [AaronSw]

hey danbri

21:51:42 [danbri]

heyhey, is this where the action is?

21:51:43 [Morbus]

'noon danbri.

21:51:49 [Morbus]

always.

21:52:08 [AaronSw]

this is action central :)

21:53:23 [sbp]

* sbp waves

21:53:34 [sbp]

"what's goin' on over 'ere, then?"

21:53:47 [danbri]

Wonder whether should be wooing you guys into returning to #rdfig

21:54:01 [danbri]

Is this the younger, slimmer, filesharing version of the semweb community? ;-)

21:54:07 [AaronSw]

Heh, indeed.

21:54:09 [sbp]

heh, heh. yep

21:54:15 [Morbus]

i mean, speck <G>

21:54:24 [Morbus]

ack. wrong room.

21:54:25 [Morbus]

bwahaha.

21:54:27 [AaronSw]

Unless you want the W3C to get sued...

21:54:35 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw rejoined #rdfig as a concession to Dan, et. al. but is now feeling bad about it

21:55:20 [danbri]

bad about what?

21:55:40 [AaronSw]

about rejoining

21:55:52 [Morbus]

i dont think i ever belonged in there.

21:56:04 [Morbus]

i only showed up initially cos it was on aaron's page, and we had been chatting about sYP.

21:56:32 [sbp]

I, OTOH, love #rdfig and all that it entails

21:56:44 [sbp]

pun somewhat intended

21:57:31 [danbri]

re W3C sued... thats why I do some of my stuff with @rdfweb.org...

21:57:56 [AaronSw]

yeah...

21:58:10 [danbri]

eg. the P2P book chapter, didn't use W3C affiliation, as was talking about how folk will be using RDF to find episodes of Buffy from hacked Tivos...

21:58:20 [AaronSw]

When I was in Bristol I never got a chance to see your place and your impressive hat collection. ;-)

21:58:25 [danbri]

(something I know now exactly how to do; back then was slightly bluffing)

21:59:20 [danbri]

Yeah, shame to have missed your visit. I've been shedding a few hats lately. Still ILRT-affiliated but not running projects there. Resigned DC arch chair.

21:59:42 [AaronSw]

Oh? When will you tell the DC-Arch list? ;)

22:02:09 [danbri]

I mailed Stu in October, don't believe he's replied yet.

22:02:37 [AaronSw]

Heh. DC always did have a fast turnaround.

22:02:52 [danbri]

In fairness was just before a conference, and I didn't follow up.

22:39:55 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

22:49:10 [danbri]

danbri has left #swhack

22:54:17 [AaronSw]

Well, this has been another work.

22:54:20 [AaronSw]

Laters!

22:54:24 [AaronSw]

s/work/week/

22:54:36 [sbp]

c'ya

22:54:42 [sbp]

have a nice Saturday