IRC log of swhack on 2002-02-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:19 [AaronSw]
In that case, the error message should be: "No settings file was found. The programmer was just ebing lazy."
00:00:25 [Morbus]
heh.
00:01:14 [Morbus]
thanks for that.
00:01:15 [sbp]
ebing away like the oceans
00:01:22 [Morbus]
ebbing.
00:01:28 [sbp]
uh huh
00:01:56 [sbp]
or, it could be a mispelling for a Macintosh microwave timer: the iBing
00:02:04 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
00:02:29 [sbp]
O.K., maybe not
00:03:56 [AaronSw]
hey GabeW
00:04:28 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw thinks more about weblog software
00:04:43 [sbp]
Hmph, good point - I was writing my own
00:04:51 [AaronSw]
Oh, you were?
00:04:57 [AaronSw]
Oh... blogster
00:05:09 [sbp]
I thought, instead of doing crappy permalinks, I could just hash the things, and let the Plex take over :-)
00:05:11 [GabeW]
hey - retail america hates me
00:05:23 [AaronSw]
Ooh.
00:05:46 [GabeW]
I've ordered 3 major things to be delivered and all of them have been delayed and/or screwed up in the last few weeks
00:06:15 [sbp]
so, in fact, you hate retail America
00:06:43 [AaronSw]
Let me guess: you ordered them online.
00:07:38 [GabeW]
yep
00:07:53 [GabeW]
stuff i couldn't get in stores
00:08:41 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@n146-015.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
00:08:47 [sbp]
one of the few things I ordered online was a book, which incredibly got here in just a few days
00:09:02 [GabeW]
I ordered a monitor (rather expensive one) last thursday, and Fedex has *lost* it.
00:09:18 [sbp]
from America. I wouldn't even have expected that speed if it were sent from the UK
00:09:31 [GabeW]
cdw has no idea where it is, but they swear up down left and right that they handed it to Fedex
00:09:51 [GabeW]
I paid $150 to get it delivered on Saturday (order placed Thursday)
00:10:22 [GabeW]
I honestly think CDW screwed up if there is no fedex shipping number (which there isn't)
00:10:44 [GabeW]
so far: alienwaresucks.com & cdwsucks.com ;-)
00:10:58 [Morbus]
AaronSw: replaced my stupid code with a new "create file if doesn't exist" which fails with "Could not create the AmphetaDesk mySettings.xml file:" error.
00:11:20 [AaronSw]
Cool.
00:12:01 [sbp]
"Could not create the AmphetaDesk mySettings.xml file: reinstall your OS"
00:12:13 [AaronSw]
GabeW, that sucks. CDW's warehouse is a short drive from here, maybe I should pick it up for you :)
00:12:23 [AaronSw]
.whois cdwsucks.com
00:12:25 [xena]
CDWSUCKS.COM registered to nobody expires on 27-Jan-2003
00:12:46 [sbp]
if it belongs to nobody, how are they going to re-register it?
00:12:59 [AaronSw]
Heh. s/nobody/Dave Walton/
00:13:10 [sbp]
just a slight typo there, eh?
00:13:22 [AaronSw]
You know xena./
00:13:50 [sbp]
no? who is she?
00:14:17 [sbp]
and whatever happend to (non-baby) tav?
00:14:33 [deltab]
the whois response parser is very simplistic
00:14:33 [sbp]
s/happend/happened/
00:15:21 [deltab]
e.g. 044803Z <xena:#infoAnarchy> sindication.com registered to nobody expires on rk Solutions' WHOIS database is provided by Network
00:17:25 [deltab]
sbp: he's around but not on irc
00:17:42 [AaronSw]
Ah, cool.
00:17:47 [deltab]
yesterday he sent me mail asking for Berkeley DB to be re-installed
00:17:48 [GabeW]
I was thinking of registering some domain sucks.<something> and then hosting a bunch of third level domains and putting together some community system for people to post gripes..
00:18:07 [AaronSw]
That'd be cool.
00:18:18 [deltab]
http://freespeechcenter.org/
00:18:41 [GabeW]
and then somehow get the companies to pay me money as an outsourced "complaint management" center or somesuch ;-)
00:18:56 [GabeW]
ooh ooh
00:19:09 [GabeW]
don't use visio 2000 under any circumstances ifyou don't want to lose files
00:19:41 [deltab]
files in general?
00:20:32 [GabeW]
visio files that you have open - it will corrupt them, even if you don't try to save them if you lose power while visio is on (not every time apaprently though)
00:21:17 [deltab]
ah
00:21:23 [GabeW]
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q278261
00:21:31 [GabeW]
Its really amazing that business software would do this
00:21:47 [GabeW]
the only safe option (which I amforced to do) is upgrade to visio 2002
00:22:13 [deltab]
work on copies?
00:24:06 [GabeW]
uh, thats evil - you basically have to hand copy the file (and close the file you are editing to do this, mind you) periodically
00:24:14 [GabeW]
its screwy beyond belief
00:25:04 [deltab]
:-(
00:26:14 [Morbus]
well, this is dumb
00:32:00 [sbp]
Aaron: "UFOish cloud formations": I think they're called "Lenticular clouds"
00:32:12 [sbp]
.google Lenticular clouds
00:32:13 [AaronSw]
Oh, that must be what deltab meant.
00:32:13 [xena]
Lenticular clouds: http://vortex.plymouth.edu/clouds.html
00:32:26 [AaronSw]
As Rael said: I WANT TO BELIEVE!
00:34:23 [AaronSw]
@ http://eastgate.com/Tinderbox/
00:34:28 [chumpster]
A: Eastgate Tinderbox™: the tool for notes from AaronSw
00:34:34 [sbp]
ugh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1800000/1800842.stm
00:34:37 [AaronSw]
A::"We're just days away!"
00:34:40 [chumpster]
commented item A
00:34:52 [Morbus]
A::$95 bucks? sheesh.
00:34:53 [chumpster]
commented item A
00:35:07 [sbp]
ooh, interesting. well, if it were free and exported as RDF, and...
00:35:29 [AaronSw]
I bet RDF'll be in the next version.
00:35:32 [sbp]
A::
00:35:32 [chumpster]
http://eastgate.com/Tinderbox/
00:35:33 [chumpster]
Eastgate Tinderbox™: the tool for notes
00:35:34 [chumpster]
(AaronSw) "We're just days away!"
00:35:35 [chumpster]
(Morbus) $95 bucks? sheesh.
00:35:36 [sbp]
crud
00:35:41 [AaronSw]
I have a feeling hey don't want me coming out to bang on their heads again.
00:35:45 [AaronSw]
crud for what?
00:35:46 [sbp]
A::"""Tinderbox files use XML, """ Yes? And?
00:35:48 [chumpster]
commented item A
00:36:02 [sbp]
that's actually what it says: it stops with a comma
00:36:06 [AaronSw]
Heh.
00:37:17 [AaronSw]
A::Well, their [other product|http://eastgate.com/Storyspace.html] is $295...
00:37:19 [chumpster]
commented item A
00:37:22 [sbp]
heh - criteria for getting into space:-
00:37:23 [sbp]
[[[
00:37:23 [sbp]
Qualifications
00:37:23 [sbp]
Very rich
00:37:24 [sbp]
Speaks English
00:37:24 [sbp]
Good health
00:37:25 [sbp]
Disqualification
00:37:27 [sbp]
Drugs
00:37:29 [sbp]
Alcohol abuse
00:37:31 [sbp]
Criminal, disgraceful or infamous behaviour
00:37:33 [sbp]
]]] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1795000/1795537.stm
00:37:39 [sbp]
Pff, IE copied that out well
00:37:40 [Morbus]
infamous behavior?!
00:37:41 [Morbus]
goddamit.,
00:37:53 [sbp]
yeah, I like that bit
00:39:35 [AaronSw]
A::This is what I'd like to use for my weblog... not sure that it's OS X compatible though.
00:39:38 [chumpster]
commented item A
00:40:23 [sbp]
Kick-ass: """The chairman of a top arts body has resigned after saying British art was in danger of "disappearing up its own arse".""" - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_512903.html?menu=news.quirkies
00:40:29 [AaronSw]
A:|Eastgate Tinderbox: the tool for notes
00:40:30 [chumpster]
titled item A
00:40:46 [sbp]
not a champion of conceptual art, it seems
00:41:08 [AaronSw]
A:|Eastgate Tinderbox: the tool for notes
00:41:10 [chumpster]
titled item A
00:42:03 [sbp]
WTF? """Mr Besinski said: "In 22 years of being in local, state and federal courts, I've never seen anything like this," said Bresinski, a former police sergeant.""" - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_512750.html?menu=news.quirkies
00:42:25 [sbp]
not only do they repeat themselves repeat themselves, but they missspel his name too
00:42:40 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh.
00:43:29 [AaronSw]
I saw a funny police quote yesterday.
00:45:02 [sbp]
What was it?
00:45:17 [AaronSw]
getting it...
00:45:33 [Morbus]
.google perl ocs parser
00:45:34 [xena]
perl ocs parser: http://www.perl.com/cs/user/query/q/6?id_topic=1
00:45:39 [AaronSw]
Former federal prosecutor Bruce Taylor: "Pornography is awful for guys: It affects their attitudes toward sex. It makes them sexually insensitive and jerks toward women, at least. At most, when it becomes an addiction, it becomes an element of psychosis."
00:45:43 [AaronSw]
- http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0201/p13s01-altv.html
00:46:49 [sbp]
heh, heh
00:47:08 [sbp]
I like how the it starts with the word "Former"
00:47:14 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh.
00:47:16 [AaronSw]
Also: "He points to an FBI profile of serial murderers and sex offenders conducted over a period of 20 years. Nearly all of them, he says, were addicted to adult and child pornography."
00:47:23 [AaronSw]
This is surprising?
00:47:46 [Morbus]
well, this is lame.
00:47:48 [deus_x]
But what about all the find upstanding citizens also addicted to adult and child pornography?
00:47:53 [deus_x]
s/find/fine/
00:48:12 [Morbus]
interalchemy has removed mention of its XML::OCS perl module
00:48:13 [AaronSw]
Clearly their readership doesn't know about converse errors.
00:49:03 [AaronSw]
The movabletype site needs screenshots.
00:49:06 [Morbus]
.google xml::oc
00:49:07 [xena]
xml::oc: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-committers/2001-05/msg00332.php
00:49:13 [Morbus]
aaron, i'll get you some hold on.
00:49:31 [Morbus]
http://movabletype.org/screenshots/screenshot-admin-menu.html
00:49:37 [Morbus]
that whole directory
00:49:42 [AaronSw]
aha, thanks!
00:49:42 [Morbus]
.google xml::ocs download
00:49:43 [xena]
xml::ocs download: http://www.opensource.co.kr/opensource/dir.php3?code=3314&page=11
00:51:59 [sbp]
er... right: http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,644896,00.html
00:53:39 [AaronSw]
What's an MP?
00:53:43 [AaronSw]
Member of Parliment?
00:54:11 [AaronSw]
gotta run: dinner
00:54:28 [Morbus]
military police
00:56:05 [sbp]
the former
01:02:55 [Morbus]
ampheta's coming along nicely.
01:03:03 [Morbus]
already shaved off 20k of dumb code.
01:05:46 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:11:55 [sbp]
and added it in comments, I hope
01:12:12 [Morbus]
heh, no :)
01:12:24 [Morbus]
i'm just streamlining a lot of the settings code right now.
01:32:05 [AaronSw]
Why don't they name the MPs?
01:38:52 [AaronSw]
Hmm, the TAG has my issue on the agenda, but they mispelled my name.
01:40:47 [sbp]
heh, heh
01:40:49 [sbp]
TimBL mispelled your site as well...
01:40:53 [sbp]
[in the Webizing Python notes]
01:41:01 [AaronSw]
uri?
01:42:08 [sbp]
http://www.w3.org/2002/Talks/0206-python/all.htm
01:42:20 [AaronSw]
Hmm, where'd you see that?
01:42:41 [AaronSw]
Heh:
01:42:42 [sbp]
RDF IG Chump
01:42:43 [AaronSw]
Python is fun
01:42:52 [AaronSw]
* Thank you Guido
01:43:37 [sbp]
where is your issue on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist?
01:43:46 [AaronSw]
it's not there yet, i guess
01:43:49 [sbp]
s/on/in/
01:44:47 [AaronSw]
Heh. AaronSwartz
01:45:51 [AaronSw]
Heh! "R.........n"
01:50:17 [sbp]
yeah
01:50:29 [deus_x]
* deus_x just started parsing RSS with python.
01:51:09 [AaronSw]
Cool, what're you using?
01:51:13 [deus_x]
I hadn't realized that RSS seemed to have forked, yet retained the same name.
01:51:32 [AaronSw]
umm... [cough]
01:51:38 [deus_x]
AaronSw: I started using Orchard as Peerkat does, but then I thought it'd be fun just to use the plain old xml modules
01:51:55 [AaronSw]
What do you mean by forked?
01:52:24 [deus_x]
AaronSw: Well, there's an RDF-based RSS in v0.9 and v1.0 and there something else called RSS v0.91 and v0.92 which is non-RDF.
01:52:35 [Morbus]
* Morbus smiles
01:52:42 [AaronSw]
Life is funny like that.
01:52:45 [deus_x]
I'm sure this is not news... was to me though. (Sensing a can of worms)
01:52:54 [wmf]
wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack
01:53:07 [AaronSw]
Heh. I was playing with Zope -- it's Zope's fault!
01:53:12 [AaronSw]
(to wmf)
01:53:17 [wmf]
suuure, blame Zope
01:53:26 [Morbus]
heh, heh.
01:53:37 [deus_x]
o/` Blame Canada^WZope! o/`
01:53:46 [Morbus]
ooh, i think i'll listen to that cd.
01:54:47 [AaronSw]
hey morb, how do I get apache to execute CGIs?
01:54:54 [Morbus]
part 2, bitch
01:54:58 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:55:03 [Morbus]
:)
01:55:34 [AaronSw]
Heh, some Zope site beats you out on google for "morbus part 2"
01:55:38 [AaronSw]
allosx.com
01:55:48 [Morbus]
ahhh... heh. yeah, i posted it there.
01:57:07 [wmf]
Paul really ripped into me about that whole "reliability" thing...
02:02:34 [deus_x]
* deus_x finds explanations for the RSS "fork" thing. Fun fun.
02:02:47 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh
02:03:11 [AaronSw]
Why does Apache keep giving me Forbidden on scripts.
02:03:32 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reads on
02:03:46 [AaronSw]
Oh, this is another one of Morbus' we'll tell them to do the wrong thing tricks.
02:04:55 [Morbus]
that was the only one silly. you complained about it in the draft ;)
02:12:31 [deus_x]
Hmm, funny... these modules seem like a good idea. :)
02:13:08 [deus_x]
* deus_x feels *so* behind. :)
02:14:29 [Morbus]
kick ass. my new settings module for amphetadesk works nicely.
02:15:58 [AaronSw]
what user is MT running as?
02:16:18 [Morbus]
without changes by you, whatever user your webserver is.
02:16:39 [deus_x]
Oh yeah, I was going to get MT to run entries past a wiki...
02:16:47 [Morbus]
which on os x is www/www
02:17:12 [AaronSw]
on debian it looks like www-data...
02:17:48 [AaronSw]
Ooh! It's so pretty!
02:17:58 [deus_x]
Hehe, that was my first impression, too.
02:18:21 [AaronSw]
Even the default blog template is beautiful
02:18:33 [AaronSw]
of course the rss is 0.91 -- gotta fix that...
02:18:41 [Morbus]
its supposed to be better in 2.0, which is out in early march
02:18:49 [Morbus]
they got christina wodke to UI it.
02:18:56 [AaronSw]
who's that?
02:19:01 [Morbus]
elegant hack?
02:19:12 [AaronSw]
Ah.
02:20:04 [wmf]
AaronSw: what are you setting up?
02:20:14 [AaronSw]
Movable Type - movabletype.org
02:20:17 [jeremiah]
so recently I've lost all inhibitions about falling asleep early, when I'm tired I just go to sleep now :)
02:20:24 [Morbus]
tis a good system. it has my vote.
02:20:26 [wmf]
that's what I guessed
02:20:49 [AaronSw]
I want to use Tinderbox, but I don't thinkit's carbonized
02:25:00 [jeremiah]
* jeremiah nods to everyone
02:26:58 [AaronSw]
Hmm, I wonder if MT can import from Radio.
02:27:09 [Morbus]
there's a discussion on the supprt boards about that.
02:27:15 [Morbus]
kearney brought it up.
02:27:17 [AaronSw]
what's the current status?
02:27:20 [Morbus]
and supposedly hacked something.
02:27:30 [Morbus]
dunno, didn't get into it.
02:34:17 [AaronSw]
Nice! The Apache config that comes with debian supports Cool URIs (w/o .htm and such) by default... or maybe it's MT.
02:34:44 [Morbus]
probably the Apache
02:34:50 [AaronSw]
yeah, it's apache.
02:35:14 [AaronSw]
That's really nice. Now I just need to convince MT to drop the .html everywhere
02:35:28 [Morbus]
that's defined in your Blog Settings, I believe
02:36:38 [AaronSw]
I changed it and it doesn't seem to have done anything.
02:36:46 [Morbus]
you have to rebuild your files.
02:36:50 [AaronSw]
i did that
02:37:09 [Morbus]
it still created them all with .html files?
02:37:13 [AaronSw]
yeah
02:37:23 [Morbus]
that may be a built in default.
02:37:24 [Morbus]
lemme check.
02:39:22 [AaronSw]
yeah: lib/MT/Util.pm: my $ext = $blog->file_extension || 'html';
02:39:44 [Morbus]
yup. i'm assuming you just removed the text, which would ... yeah.
02:39:48 [Morbus]
just change that...
02:39:57 [AaronSw]
but then i'll get files named index.
02:40:02 [AaronSw]
"index."
02:40:24 [Morbus]
if you're leery about changing the code (heh), you can always override everything within your template settins.
02:40:56 [Morbus]
if you're using monthly templaets, for instance,
02:41:22 [Morbus]
well, like, in gamegrene.com, I've selected "individual" archive types.
02:41:25 [AaronSw]
I don't think that'll help since they're all just <$MTArchiveLink$>
02:41:33 [Morbus]
which by default would be ID.$ext
02:41:40 [Morbus]
but, I've overwritten that by saying: <$MTEntryCategory dirify="1"$>/<$MTEntryTitle dirify="1"$>.shtml
02:41:46 [AaronSw]
ah.
02:41:53 [Morbus]
you could easily do: <$MTEntryCategory dirify="1"$>/<$MTEntryTitle dirify="1"$>
02:42:08 [Morbus]
which, in gamegrene's case, would be "game_material/title"
02:46:18 [GabeW2]
GabeW2 (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
02:46:27 [AaronSw]
I think if I just comment out $file .= '.' . $ext;
02:46:52 [Morbus]
that'd work too, but you'd just have to remember to do that on upgrades.
02:47:18 [Morbus]
you didn't want to override the archives?
02:47:53 [AaronSw]
Why would I do that?
02:48:11 [Morbus]
because you can do that without messing with the source code.
02:48:13 [AaronSw]
Oh... hmm.
02:48:42 [Morbus]
my new settings thing for ampheta rocks.
02:48:50 [AaronSw]
This screwed up the file names... ugh.
02:48:53 [Morbus]
well, the code does at least.
02:48:57 [Morbus]
what's that?
02:49:58 [AaronSw]
i thought that i'd only get the links with that change, but it renamed the files too.
02:50:37 [Morbus]
right - if you change the archive filenames (in the blog configuration), and then rebuild, it will create brand new sets with that new structure.
02:50:56 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I see.
02:51:57 [GabeW]
GabeW has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:54:17 [AaronSw]
Hmm, how do I do the calendar?
02:54:26 [Morbus]
dunno. never used it.
02:56:10 [jeremiah]
jeremiah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:01:20 [GabeW2]
GabeW2 is now known as GabeW
03:09:36 [GabeW]
GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")
03:18:19 [Morbus]
i'm getting a cold. i know it.
03:18:22 [Morbus]
i'm getting off.
03:18:28 [Morbus]
gotta read or rest or something
03:18:31 [Morbus]
make some tea. i dunno.
03:18:38 [sbp]
"Java's list syntax is hideous." - http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html
03:19:45 [AaronSw]
feel better morb
03:19:55 [Morbus]
thanks
03:19:58 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
03:21:43 [AaronSw]
hey, i know glyph -- he's one of the people messing with pychord
03:27:28 [wmf]
there's some totally bogus code in that article
03:27:47 [AaronSw]
java code, I assume?
03:27:52 [wmf]
yeah
03:28:17 [AaronSw]
you should email him..
03:28:26 [AaronSw]
doesn't look like he's on now
03:29:19 [wmf]
the quote about lists is right on, although slightly misleading because Java doesn't *have* a syntax for lists
03:32:54 [wmf]
no use writing him: "I am aware that I did not choose optimal (or even necessarily equivalent) algorithms for the Java test cases."
03:33:31 [AaronSw]
he didn't say he did it on purpose, did he?
03:34:00 [wmf]
I don't see any particular reason listed
03:35:38 [wmf]
anyway, I think he's right that Python is better than Java 1.1, but it isn't relevant any more
04:06:32 [wmf]
.mail
04:06:37 [wmf]
.email
04:06:38 [xena]
usage: email <email address> [<subject line> //] <message>
04:06:39 [xena]
- send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to.
04:06:40 [xena]
- you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with //
04:07:16 [wmf]
.email wmf@voicestream.net testing // check, check...
04:07:17 [xena]
email successfully sent.
04:09:21 [AaronSw]
This show divs and spans bookmarklet is awesome: http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/000300.php#000300
04:12:48 [wmf]
hmm, my phone is not getting mail
04:13:11 [AaronSw]
Hmm.
04:38:31 [wmf]
ok, the mail is going though
04:52:10 [BenSw]
thats good
05:01:58 [AaronSw]
Cool, got a Python script to do Radio->MovableType
05:04:39 [AaronSw]
xml export saves the day again
05:05:10 [AaronSw]
along with regexps and shell scripting
05:07:19 [wmf]
that was fast
05:07:35 [AaronSw]
10 line python script
05:07:45 [AaronSw]
Oops. Anyone know the python command to expand HTML entities?
05:16:15 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw uses: for e in htmlentitydefs.entitydefs: body = re.sub('&'+e+';', htmlentitydefs.entitydefs[e], body)
05:26:03 [wmf]
* wmf upgrades to a new wallet
05:26:22 [AaronSw]
Heh. A Microsoft Wallet?
05:26:26 [wmf]
no
05:27:06 [AaronSw]
Major new features? Does it support Cocoa?
05:27:38 [wmf]
no new features, but it has fewer holes than the old one
05:28:22 [AaronSw]
You could have just grabbed the latest security patches.
05:28:47 [wmf]
no, I wanted a fresh one
05:29:36 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack
05:32:02 [wmf]
@ http://www.mozilla.org.uk/docs/spell-checker-faq
05:32:07 [chumpster]
B: Mozilla Spell-checker FAQ from wmf
05:32:20 [wmf]
B::"Is a spell-checker a requirement for Mozilla 1.0?"
05:32:21 [chumpster]
commented item B
05:32:28 [wmf]
B::"No."
05:32:29 [chumpster]
commented item B
05:32:38 [wmf]
B::"But..."
05:32:40 [chumpster]
commented item B
05:32:43 [wmf]
B::"No."
05:32:45 [chumpster]
commented item B
05:33:23 [AaronSw]
Heh: """Please don't try and threaten us with "I'll go and use IE 6! I will! And then you'll be sorry..." or "Mozilla will be a laughing stock without a spell-checker!" or "The customer is always right. Cower before my mighty consumer power!" People do this and think it'll have an effect, but we really don't care. And you aren't our customer (but that's another debate.) I suggest you direct your energies in more constructive directions - like, for example, lear
05:34:41 [wmf]
lol: "I hope that Mozilla 1.0 will have native widget support for Windows 2005."
05:40:11 [wmf]
"The basic problem is that DivXNetworks stole the name of the very popular hacked codec, bought the domainname, went legit with an entirely different codec, and then put up a FAQ which basically denies the existence of the codec who's name they stole. Seem a little scummy to you?"
05:42:03 [AaronSw]
B::"I can't code. Can I test it out?"
05:42:03 [AaronSw]
B::"Yes, if you sign the Non-Disclosure Agreement giving us the ability to enter your house, raid your fridge and assault your cat." *They better watch out -- I think Microsoft has a copyright on that NDA.*
05:42:05 [chumpster]
commented item B
05:42:06 [chumpster]
commented item B
05:42:22 [AaronSw]
Seems very scummy indeed.
05:42:33 [AaronSw]
At least it wasn't bought by those awful DRM DVD folks
05:43:13 [wmf]
that AC also forgot to mention the whole Project Mayo fiasco
05:43:34 [AaronSw]
AC?
05:43:45 [wmf]
I was quoting an AC from /.
05:43:58 [AaronSw]
Ah.
05:44:04 [tansaku]
hey AaronSw
05:44:06 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
05:44:10 [AaronSw]
wb tansaku, GabeW
05:44:23 [tansaku]
you got a copy of your submission to O'Reilly emerging fluff?
05:44:30 [GabeW]
hi all
05:44:37 [tansaku]
hi GabeW
05:44:44 [AaronSw]
somewhere around here... it obviously wasn't very good.
05:44:47 [GabeW]
whats the deal with raggin' on the oreilly conf?
05:44:55 [tansaku]
search me?
05:45:19 [tansaku]
AaronSw, I'd be interested in taking a look - mail me at sam@neurogrid.com ?
05:45:38 [GabeW]
fogetaboutit
05:45:41 [AaronSw]
just a sec -- i'll hunt for the url
05:45:46 [AaronSw]
GabeW, you mean emerging FUD?
05:45:51 [GabeW]
is that it?
05:45:52 [tansaku]
watttever ..,
05:46:14 [GabeW]
well, I feel like I"m missing out on a meme here
05:46:32 [AaronSw]
http://logicerror.com/etPlexTalk
05:46:57 [AaronSw]
GabeW, I think people are just sour that they're backing away from P2P.
05:47:12 [AaronSw]
tansaku, it's at http://logicerror.com/etPlexTalk
05:47:26 [tansaku]
thanks
05:47:48 [wmf]
calling something an "Emerging Technology" conference is like saying a "miscellaneous stuff" conference
05:47:56 [GabeW]
ahh
05:47:56 [tansaku]
Actually with O'Reilly only asking for one page proposals like this, it's difficult to tell one submission apart from the next
05:48:00 [AaronSw]
no -- NEW miscellaneous stuff!
05:48:16 [tansaku]
I'm still sour at them for rejecting me from both of their P2P conferences
05:48:17 [GabeW]
I think actually that would be kewl if you attracted only the right people
05:48:19 [AaronSw]
Yeah -- I figured they'd email me if they were at all interested. :(
05:48:55 [tansaku]
some people, e.g. me, feel they overlook interesting novel projects in favour of big corporate types who are likely to pay sponsorship fees
05:48:59 [GabeW]
I'd want to hear 'bout routing stuff re: linux, wacky things with lisp, interesting p2p stuff - all thats pretty misc.
05:49:02 [wmf]
they send out the accept/reject mails at the same time AFAIK
05:49:08 [tansaku]
well that's the way it goes I suppose
05:49:34 [AaronSw]
wmf, did you reject our proposals?
05:49:53 [wmf]
I am no longer serving in the O'Reilly Illuminati
05:49:55 [tansaku]
I'm used to academic conferences where who you work for isn't supposed to count - I get rejected from those as well, but at least it's for technical reasons
05:50:00 [tansaku]
heh
05:50:14 [GabeW]
at least you submit!
05:50:36 [GabeW]
codecon looks interesting because its seems relatively 'raw'
05:50:49 [tansaku]
yeah, maybe I should've gone for that
05:51:04 [tansaku]
anyway there's another p2p workshop coming up in europe soon
05:51:09 [wmf]
hopefully we will have a paper in OSDI this year
05:51:10 [GabeW]
dude, everyone who is everyone (at least on #infoanarchy) is going to be there..
05:51:18 [AaronSw]
I was really thrilled to hear there 're gonna be CodeCon webcasts.
05:51:22 [GabeW]
d00d
05:51:34 [tansaku]
at least the MIT people gave me good feedback - I'll use it to work on the next submission
05:51:46 [GabeW]
what sort of feedback?
05:52:04 [tansaku]
yeah, but codecon is kind of crypto focused - I wanted to focus on P2P, that's why I went for the MIT thing
05:52:14 [GabeW]
hrm?
05:52:22 [GabeW]
codecon is not focused on crypto, really...
05:52:39 [tansaku]
GabeW: well they gave me names of authors of papers I should read, and stuff
05:53:08 [tansaku]
GabeW: better than some reviewers, who just say you've ignored all the really important work in the field and then don't tell you what it is
05:53:45 [tansaku]
hmm, maybe I need to look again at codecon, but the brief says "bringing together people from the crypto community" etc.
05:53:47 [AaronSw]
it's so important so you should obviously know
05:53:59 [tansaku]
I mean I know they are targetting other groups as well
05:54:24 [tansaku]
AaronSw: right - I mean eventually with enough good rejections I'll complete a literature review of P2P search
05:54:30 [GabeW]
hehe
05:55:05 [GabeW]
codecon seems more like the "kewl misc. things these type of peoplea re doing" more than anything else
05:55:05 [AaronSw]
Cool, the MT import worked beautifully.
05:55:57 [wmf]
"4ghz of
05:55:57 [wmf]
Hot P4 Action is meaningless to an application that requires more than
05:55:57 [wmf]
4gb of process address space.
05:55:58 [wmf]
"
05:56:33 [tansaku]
GabeW: codecon probably will be cool, but I've kind of missed my slot - next year maybe I'll be based in the bay area and I'll check it out
05:56:48 [AaronSw]
Umm... I don't think I run any of those apps. ;-)
05:58:10 [wmf]
that's because they plex isn't written yet :-)
05:58:12 [GabeW]
tansaku - you should publish a bibliography
05:58:28 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh.
05:59:01 [GabeW]
Librarians love bibliographies - its like hitting paydirt
05:59:06 [AaronSw]
Even the Plex has a limit of 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096 nodes.
05:59:21 [AaronSw]
actually, it's probably that cubed.
05:59:23 [GabeW]
dude, time for plexv6
05:59:48 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh, heh -- that'd have 2410312426921032588580116606028314112912093247945688951359675039065257391591803200669085024107346049663448766280888004787862416978794958324969612987890774651455213339381625224770782077917681499676845543137387820057597345857904599109461387122099507964997815641342300677629473355281617428411794163967785870370368969109221591943054232011562758450080579587850900993714892283476646631181515063804873375182260506246992837898705971012525843324
06:00:02 [GabeW]
stop it AaronSw - you're wasting perfectly good cpu cycles
06:00:22 [AaronSw]
For a good cause!
06:00:22 [tansaku]
GabeW: http://www.neurogrid.net/publications/publications.html
06:01:02 [GabeW]
man, you actually write a lot
06:02:15 [tansaku]
man, I like actually am an academic
06:02:22 [AaronSw]
You should cite your own papers under different psuedonyms, to give the illusion of a major research review
06:02:28 [tansaku]
and that's not including my non-technical stuff
06:02:42 [wmf]
tansaku: hey, at least you don't *look* like an academic
06:02:56 [tansaku]
http://www.japaninc.com/contents.php?issueID=2
06:03:03 [tansaku]
http://japaninc.com/mag/comp/2001/07/jul01_creativity.html
06:03:26 [tansaku]
wmf: yeah, and that cost a pretty penny in plastic surgery I can tell you ...
06:03:32 [tansaku]
wmf: yeah, and that cost a pretty penny in plastic surgery I can tell you ...
06:04:00 [tansaku]
* tansaku gets confused with his keyboard - the neural regenerative work didn't quite take properly
06:04:49 [GabeW]
ouch - cfp2002 is $585
06:04:53 [AaronSw]
Doesn't J@pan know that @s are n@ l@nger C@@L?
06:05:07 [tansaku]
AaronSw: n@pe
06:05:39 [tansaku]
but they sell stuff in Japan, and the marketing rules are different over here ...
06:05:44 [tansaku]
bbs
06:05:55 [tansaku]
* tansaku slips off to bathe in some Japanese paperwork
06:06:23 [wmf]
http://www.realworldtech.com/index.cfm
06:06:28 [GabeW]
* GabeW needs to spend his precious few cycles on BEEP, not IRC.. sigh
06:06:30 [wmf]
er, no
06:06:38 [wmf]
http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=517&Thread=2&entryID=4311&roomID=13
06:06:58 [AaronSw]
We could talk on IRC-over-BEEP if that would help
06:07:17 [GabeW]
well, unless you were writing beep as we were talking..
06:07:30 [AaronSw]
BEEP-over-IRC...
06:07:30 [GabeW]
When it comes to writing code, I need more than a half hour to be productive
06:09:26 [GabeW]
at least when it comes to things like BEEP!
06:22:09 [wmf]
wmf has quit ("zzz")
06:28:45 [AaronSw]
nite all
06:29:13 [GabeW]
it
06:29:14 [GabeW]
nite
07:15:56 [GabeW]
GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")
08:27:52 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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tansaku2 is now known as tansaku
10:50:09 [DoidT]
DoidT (~besirc@host217-35-151-152.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
10:52:46 [DoidT]
Hi. Just dropping by while I can run an IRC client.
10:53:16 [DoidT]
tav is around - I spoke to him yesterday about doing some KnowNow stuff
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DoidT is now known as doid
11:42:39 [doid]
bumbling around in the kitchen
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14:07:46 [sbp]
* sbp waves
14:07:58 [sbp]
* sbp just got in before it started pissing it down
14:09:17 [doid]
yeah, just started thundering here
14:11:31 [doid]
Gah. Old cam link gone.
14:13:19 [sbp]
Hmm... the sun's out again down here. Just a shower
14:14:32 [doid]
Sky clears in Hammersmith too, a picture would've been better
14:22:09 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@s87.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
14:26:23 [sbp]
Mr. M. How are things?
14:26:29 [Morbus]
goign well.
14:26:32 [Morbus]
just working on ampheta.
14:26:45 [sbp]
ooh, full-time Amphy updates now?
14:26:59 [Morbus]
well, i dunno. i'm justworking on the modularization now.
14:27:03 [Morbus]
and that's a big task.
14:27:27 [doid]
Good luck, I'll give it a go
14:27:44 [sbp]
give what a go?
14:27:45 [Morbus]
right at this moment, i actually blackboxed the settings stuff.
14:27:55 [doid]
Amphetadesk
14:28:01 [Morbus]
so instead of referring directly to the settings data, I use get_setting and set_setting now.
14:28:23 [sbp]
ah
14:28:36 [sbp]
heh: set_setting
14:28:52 [sbp]
[sound of Morbus set_setting away]
14:31:50 [sbp]
heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20020205.html
14:32:06 [sbp]
"it's all natural!"
14:32:25 [sbp]
heh! http://www.snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/peanuts-20020201.html
14:48:35 [Morbus]
not good.
14:48:38 [Morbus]
i broke ampheta. whee.
14:52:42 [doid]
Morbus: can I use it in Linux? I know it says mac, win, source
14:52:55 [Morbus]
yeah, you can use it in linux,
14:53:09 [Morbus]
there are some idiotic stupiidities in the source, but they're easily fixed.
14:53:37 [doid]
There'll be delays from me - I'm off to Linux, later
14:59:09 [Morbus]
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15:23:08 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
15:29:39 [doid]
oh, well - I got it running, but I'll need a linux install with a connection
15:29:40 [doid]
duh
15:29:49 [AaronSw]
Heh.
15:31:34 [doid]
so I'm going to do another install...
15:32:22 [AaronSw]
Ampheta isn't that great... yet.
15:33:22 [doid]
dunno, but I'll need a reader for when I don't want to run Radio
15:33:49 [AaronSw]
Yeah. It's really nice, but my biggest problem is that it doesn't let you do deletes and that sort of thing.
15:37:24 [doid]
sorry, I've got screen freezes of 2 mins as a vm swaps out of memory
15:37:52 [doid]
Deletes of what?
15:38:20 [AaronSw]
ick,
15:38:22 [AaronSw]
of news items
15:38:53 [doid]
Ah, you only want to save the good ones
15:39:25 [doid]
Starting a new install...
15:49:51 [doid]
so that's going on
15:49:59 [doid]
see sleepycat 4 out?
15:50:11 [AaronSw]
hmm. no
15:50:37 [doid]
yeah, there was a press release and stuff
15:52:14 [doid]
http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.020402/220352228
15:58:01 [AaronSw]
Heh! New features include "High Availability. High Availability uses a technique called 'replication' to keep multiple copies of a database, stored in different places, up to date." and "Group Commit."
15:58:50 [AaronSw]
And the one feature they didn't mention: We changed the interface all around again in random ways to drive more money to our consulting business...
15:59:26 [AaronSw]
It sounds sort of like this spam: "YES, you can generate some income thru INTERNET! I mean you can use the internet as your marketplace to help sell some products and earn generous COMMISSION."
16:01:13 [doid]
you cynic
16:01:20 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh
16:01:28 [doid]
I thought you thought sleepycat was good
16:01:53 [AaronSw]
I do think so, but I always like making fun of press releases.
16:02:10 [AaronSw]
Maybe it comes from having written some.
16:02:17 [doid]
I'd say its not enronic, which is my new word
16:02:33 [AaronSw]
Who's cynical now?
16:02:48 [doid]
hehe, back ina few mins
16:06:10 [chumpster]
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16:06:10 [deltab]
deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
16:09:17 [sbp]
Argh, crappy Java!
16:09:52 [sbp]
The list syntax is beyond belief
16:10:29 [deltab]
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16:10:29 [chumpster]
chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack
16:11:16 [AaronSw]
It's not a syntax.
16:14:46 [doid]
my sys has lost its cdrom halfway through install
16:14:57 [doid]
poked it with a paperclip and all's well
16:15:27 [sbp]
not a syntax: indeed. I should have said "implementation"
16:16:00 [sbp]
argh, it's just a horking pile of junk
16:16:08 [doid]
is the plex using java?
16:16:20 [AaronSw]
no
16:16:30 [doid]
ah
16:16:54 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has left #swhack
16:17:03 [AaronSw]
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16:17:38 [sbp]
example annoyance: you have a Vector full of MyClass instances. You do vector.elementAt(i).myMethod(), and it barfs all over you for trying to call myMethod on the Object class. Aaaaaargh!
16:18:20 [sbp]
you can't do __init__(self, args*) either: you have to enumerate the damn list
16:18:33 [sbp]
well, I cheated... I feed it a list
16:19:11 [AaronSw]
I think in Python you can do __init__(self, (e1, e2, e3), bar)
16:19:33 [deltab]
yes
16:19:34 [sbp]
wow, neat
16:19:58 [sbp]
I would try that in Java, but the compiler would melt
16:20:08 [deltab]
heh
16:20:49 [AaronSw]
[sbp's computer glows red hot, starts shaking, and melts into a pile of goo on the table]
16:20:57 [AaronSw]
<sbp> Well, guess I'll have to buy an iMac now!
16:21:08 [sbp]
lol
16:26:58 [doid]
sbp: are you a regular cwm user?
16:27:26 [AaronSw]
sbp is the preeminant cwm user
16:27:42 [doid]
ahh, I was getting that impression
16:28:16 [doid]
I've been downloading all these python files, see
16:28:48 [doid]
and beginiing to think about learning to get them to do stuff
16:29:01 [doid]
so I've got some reading there
16:29:38 [AaronSw]
Cool. Python is fun.
16:29:57 [sbp]
I wrote http://infomesh.net/2001/cwm/
16:30:14 [doid]
Yes, I've seen that and environs
16:30:20 [sbp]
cool
16:30:33 [doid]
Some of the source files are very recent
16:31:00 [sbp]
yeah, they do get updated fairly regularly
16:31:17 [sbp]
Tim has been messing about with Llyn, I presume
16:32:07 [doid]
I did get that, but as I say, haven't got these files doing anything at the moment
16:32:29 [sbp]
well... they're quite pretty. Print them out and hang them on your wall!
16:32:37 [sbp]
[I actually considered doing that]
16:32:46 [doid]
Funny, I enjoy reading them
16:33:11 [doid]
Install finished, back in a few
16:33:17 [sbp]
O.K.
16:52:31 [AaronSw]
Home of the Horkin' HTML
16:57:32 [sbp]
heh, heh
16:58:00 [AaronSw]
Hm, my #include isn't working
16:58:19 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
17:03:15 [AaronSw]
argh. what's wrong with this? <!--#include file="swhack.html" -->
17:03:29 [sbp]
is the file in the same dir?
17:03:33 [AaronSw]
yep
17:03:36 [sbp]
otherwise, you need to use virtual
17:04:00 [sbp]
try it anyway: <!--#include virtual="swhack.html" -->
17:04:05 [AaronSw]
it seems like it isn't being parsed at all
17:04:32 [AaronSw]
had the same problem with virtual
17:04:49 [AaronSw]
the file is named foo.shtml, i turned .shtml on in httpd.conf
17:05:03 [AaronSw]
I restarted apache
17:06:45 [AaronSw]
ah. mod_include wasn't loaded
17:18:45 [AaronSw]
Aside from section 5, the MT license seems reasonably like free software
17:23:22 [doid]
Hmm. the one I'm reading doesn't have a section 5
17:23:55 [AaronSw]
That's odd.
17:24:37 [AaronSw]
Here's one with a section 5: http://www.movabletype.org/legal-license.html
17:25:13 [doid]
Here's one without
17:25:16 [doid]
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html
17:25:33 [AaronSw]
Ah. I said MT not MIT.
17:25:44 [AaronSw]
Too many licenses.
17:25:55 [AaronSw]
The MIT license is very nice. Short and sweet.
17:26:31 [doid]
Oops misread
17:26:34 [AaronSw]
Although I think my favorite license is the DanC license: "Share and enjoy."
17:27:00 [doid]
cool
17:31:50 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.2")
17:32:02 [sbp]
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17:32:41 [AaronSw]
Hmm, never seen that before.
17:36:45 [deus_x]
"'Share and Enjoy' is, of course, the company motto of the hugely successful Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints Division, which now covers the major land masses of three medium-size planets..."
17:36:53 [AaronSw]
:-)
17:37:08 [deus_x]
(from the Hitchhiker's Guide, of course)
17:37:29 [AaronSw]
DanC was always an HHGTTG fan.
17:37:41 [AaronSw]
.jargon share and enjoy
17:37:42 [xena]
error: unable to define share and enjoy
17:37:47 [doid]
I'd forgot that, didn't come up on google search
17:37:49 [deus_x]
http://websites.ntl.com/~sunshine/realhhg/hhgshare.htm
17:37:51 [AaronSw]
.jargon share_and_enjoy
17:38:07 [deus_x]
Hmm, and it is in the jargon as "share and enjoy!"
17:38:17 [AaronSw]
--
17:38:20 [AaronSw]
Share and enjoy!     imp.     1. Commonly found at the end of software release announcements and README files, this phrase indicates allegiance to the hacker ethic of free information sharing (see hacker ethic, sense 1). 2. The motto of the complaints division of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation (the ultimate gaggle of incompetent suits) in Douglas Adams's "Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The irony of using this as a cultural recognition signal appeals to hac
17:38:20 [AaronSw]
--
17:38:51 [deus_x]
Funny, I just finished listening to the HHGTG audiobook in MP3s last week.
17:39:18 [doid]
wow, bought or downloaded?
17:39:49 [AaronSw]
What was it that Sirius wanted you to share...? I can't remember.
17:40:14 [deus_x]
Had it on CD, ripped it to MP3 for listening at work while I took the set back home
17:45:09 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("I shouldn't really be here - dircproxy 1.0.2")
17:45:18 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack
17:46:05 [sbp]
WTF: 17:45:09 <sbp> sbp has quit ("I shouldn't really be here - dircproxy 1.0.2")
17:46:28 [sbp]
16:17:38 <sbp> example annoyance: you have a Vector full of MyClass instances. You do vector.elementAt(i).myMethod(), and it barfs all over you for trying to call myMethod on the Object class. Aaaaaargh!
17:47:01 [sbp]
I found out that you can cast it: ((MyClass)vector.elementAt(i)).myMethod()
17:47:35 [AaronSw]
Fun.
17:48:54 [deltab]
174951Z <sobit:#python> could anyone using mac OS 9 and OS X tell me what the
17:48:54 [deltab]
sys.platform strings are?
17:49:22 [BenSw|school]
BenSw|school (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack
17:49:50 [BenSw|school]
Hello
17:51:00 [Morbus]
Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
17:51:07 [doid]
Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints Division Song...
17:51:07 [BenSw|school]
BenSw|school has quit (Remote closed the connection)
17:51:14 [sbp]
Hi Ben
17:51:17 [doid]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A539147
18:00:20 [doid]
.time
18:00:21 [xena]
2002/02/05 18:01:59.2241 Universal
18:00:58 [doid]
hello Ben, even if you quit :-)
18:03:24 [doid]
I'm off, see y'all
18:03:33 [doid]
doid has quit ("Bye")
18:59:59 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw tries to think of websites he's responsible for
19:00:33 [Morbus]
AaronSw!
19:00:41 [AaronSw]
Morbus!
19:00:59 [Morbus]
how are you!?
19:01:19 [Morbus]
hey, i'm setting up ampheta so you can do crap like this:
19:01:37 [Morbus]
perl -MAmphetaDesk::Channels 'export_my_settings' > file.txt
19:01:43 [Morbus]
or to other pipes, or what have you.
19:01:56 [AaronSw]
Nice!
19:02:05 [Morbus]
perl -MAmphetaDesk::Channels 'import_from_radio' < mySubscriptions.opml
19:02:06 [Morbus]
and so forth ;)
19:05:42 [Morbus]
i think on windows, i can do the same thing.'
19:05:51 [Morbus]
AmphetaDesk.exe -MAmphetaDesk::Channels and so forth.
19:06:03 [Morbus]
the only plce it's broken, is again, OS 9 and below. sigh.
19:08:41 [Morbus]
not sure what to do there.
19:08:53 [Morbus]
i could have a mini input box in ampheta to type in all that crp.
19:08:57 [Morbus]
but that'd be sorta lame.
19:10:43 [AaronSw]
Hmm.
19:10:49 [AaronSw]
You could make them download MPW ;)
19:11:08 [Morbus]
hehehe.
19:11:19 [Morbus]
well, i mean, i'm plannng on adding plugin capabilitoies
19:11:34 [Morbus]
so they could technically do it there.
19:11:59 [Morbus]
but if someone is using os 9, after os x is out, i'm not sure that audience is even worth this added capabil9ty.
19:12:20 [Morbus]
tonight i'll be working on adding a true http daemon, and not the homebrew i did.
19:12:28 [AaronSw]
Ooh.
19:17:26 [Morbus]
much better
19:17:35 [Morbus]
http daemon, i'm hoping.
19:17:45 [deus_x]
What are you using to make the HTTPd?
19:18:02 [Morbus]
i was using straight sockets, that's my homebrew.
19:18:05 [deus_x]
Not going with POE? :)
19:18:12 [Morbus]
but i'm planning / or hoping to go with http::daemon
19:18:20 [Morbus]
i don't think i'm going to, at least, not for aw hile.
19:18:41 [deus_x]
That's probably fine for a single user thing for awhile. I started making a news aggregator in perl with POE, but then I decided I wanted to learn python.
19:18:42 [Morbus]
after looking into it, the queue based system that it promises me doesnt' seem all too different than the cheapass queue I had done in my own code.
19:20:45 [deus_x]
The nice thing about the POE rendition I had going was that everything was packaged up in nice components. I might still play with it some more.
19:22:31 [Morbus]
well, i'm doing a bit of the same now - modularzing ampheta, yadda yadda.
19:23:18 [deus_x]
That would be a decent first step toward POE or whatever else, etc, you might want to do with it.
19:23:19 [Morbus]
how you liking python?
19:23:24 [Morbus]
exactly.
19:23:31 [Morbus]
the module crap was a long time coming.
19:23:38 [Morbus]
i just didn't know much about modules when i first started ampheta.
19:23:47 [deus_x]
I likes it. I've been meaning to get back to it for a long time, but my momentum in perl is much :)
19:24:05 [Morbus]
heh :)
19:25:16 [deus_x]
I've reached the borders of madness with perl though. Must diversify.
19:29:41 [deus_x]
If I do anything more with it, I can send you the POE-ified stuff I was playing with.
19:30:26 [Morbus]
sure.
19:31:02 [deus_x]
I was mostly waiting on a new HTTPd component someone was working on. I have some scheduled RSS grabbing and parsing already going on.
19:31:30 [deus_x]
Wasn't parallel-ized or anything though, which was something else I wanted to play with.
19:39:31 [AaronSw]
jer should go to python10 -- it's reasnoably nearby
19:59:17 [rillian]
rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack
19:59:35 [rillian]
afternoon, citizens
20:00:41 [AaronSw]
afternoon
20:22:55 [rillian]
@ http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html
20:23:01 [chumpster]
C: Kovar/Hall from rillian
20:23:53 [rillian]
C:|Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Ass
20:23:55 [chumpster]
titled item C
20:24:07 [rillian]
C::A truly excellent undergraduate research paper
20:24:09 [chumpster]
commented item C
20:24:22 [AaronSw]
Is there some website where you find all of these? ;-)
20:24:36 [rillian]
with one was word-of-email
20:24:48 [rillian]
did you see the graph?
20:25:16 [AaronSw]
lol
20:25:52 [rillian]
the fit is priceless
20:26:12 [AaronSw]
"Banking on my hopes that whoever grades this will just look at the pictures, I drew an exponential through my noise. I believe the apparent legitimacy is enhanced by the fact that I used a complicated computer program to make the fit. I understand this is the same process by which the top quark was discovered."
20:29:25 [Morbus]
heh, heh.
20:30:13 [Morbus]
man, that's awesome.
20:31:26 [AaronSw]
"This research has been accepted for publication in the May/June issue of the Annals of Improbable Research."
20:32:16 [rillian]
So what happens to all these chumpster urls?
20:32:22 [rillian]
I assume they get logged somewhere
20:32:30 [rillian]
but I've never seen any of them come back out :)
20:32:35 [AaronSw]
yeah, to http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/
20:32:42 [AaronSw]
and soon to my personal weblog too
20:34:19 [rillian]
There is no Global RDF Conspiracy?
20:34:31 [rillian]
but what about the <muffle> <bump>
20:34:49 [rillian]
* rillian understands now
20:34:56 [AaronSw]
:-)
20:35:03 [rillian]
AaronSw: that's kind of cool
20:35:17 [AaronSw]
the cons... i mean weblog?
20:35:38 [rillian]
oh yes, that
20:35:49 [AaronSw]
thanks
20:35:56 [rillian]
I guess the blog thing is a little like the 'new sites' listing at ncsa
20:36:01 [rillian]
in the early days of the web
20:36:10 [AaronSw]
indeed
20:36:12 [rillian]
a place where you could actually find interesting new things
20:36:16 [rillian]
* rillian misses that
20:37:54 [AaronSw]
it does sort of feel as if the web has slowed down a bit...
20:39:58 [Morbus]
i used to use nu2.com back in the day.
20:40:05 [Morbus]
300 new sites a day, filtered based on my interests.
20:40:08 [Morbus]
it was wonderful
20:40:58 [AaronSw]
Hmm. I hadn't heard of that.
20:41:42 [Morbus]
yeah, of course, its dead now. but it used to be the very first of a "sites i visit daily" regime.
20:42:51 [AaronSw]
why'd it go?
20:42:57 [Morbus]
dunno.
20:43:03 [rillian]
AaronSw: how did you do the italic comment at the end of the Mozilla spell-check faq?
20:43:19 [AaronSw]
you can do *italics*
20:43:33 [AaronSw]
and [title of a page|http://somelink.org/]
20:43:41 [rillian]
shouldn't that be ~italics~ or /italics/
20:43:49 [AaronSw]
or even _italics_
20:43:52 [rillian]
indeed
20:44:06 [AaronSw]
you would think so, wouldn't you.
20:44:06 [rillian]
I guess *emphasis* is the most common online
20:44:15 [rillian]
but I always thought of that as bold
20:44:19 [AaronSw]
Me too.
20:44:24 [rillian]
even though you wouldn't set it that way typographically
20:44:34 [rillian]
*shrug*
20:45:13 [AaronSw]
Maybe it's different in the UK where the bot was written. ;-)
20:45:23 [rillian]
heh
20:47:13 [rillian]
so [foo|bar] -> <a href="bar">foo</a> ?
20:48:12 [AaronSw]
yeah.
20:48:38 [AaronSw]
although absolute URIs are probably better
20:48:55 [rillian]
those are variables :)
20:49:00 [AaronSw]
:-)
20:49:44 [rillian]
so [foo|bar://baz] -> <a href="bar://baz">foo</a> ?
20:49:53 [AaronSw]
yes
20:50:00 [rillian]
actually the // isn't part of the uri definition is it?
20:50:08 [rillian]
just the : ?
20:50:21 [AaronSw]
yeah, the // is specified by the scheme
20:50:53 [rillian]
like I've seen news:alt.bots.chumster#101033823
20:51:06 [AaronSw]
like there's no // in tel: or mailto:
20:51:29 [AaronSw]
.google news uri scheme
20:51:29 [xena]
news uri scheme: http://www.w3.org/Addressing/schemes
20:54:02 [AaronSw]
hm: http://web.archive.org/web/19991116003344/www.access.digex.net/~asgilman/uri/news/draft-gilman-news-url-02.txt
20:56:23 [AaronSw]
so the correct syntax is: news:alt.bots.chumster/101033823
20:56:36 [deus_x]
Seems kinda wiki-ish, that log syntax :)
20:56:49 [AaronSw]
i think that was intentional :)
20:56:56 [deus_x]
Gee!
20:58:27 [AaronSw]
Cool, the author of Plucky wrote back saying he'd already implemented all of my suggestions in the next version he's releasing.
21:01:26 [Morbus]
kicikass.
21:01:29 [Morbus]
what'd you suggest?
21:01:52 [AaronSw]
deletion, iTunes style search, and an HTML version
21:02:09 [AaronSw]
oh, and drag-and-drop
21:04:41 [AaronSw]
Morbus, did you cover apache proxying?
21:04:49 [Morbus]
nope.
21:05:01 [Morbus]
he added anhtml version? kickass.
21:05:06 [Morbus]
any word on when it'll come out?
21:05:20 [AaronSw]
"The 1.0 version will hopefully be available by the end of February."
21:06:57 [sbp]
lol! "Banking on my hopes that whoever grades this will just look at the pictures, I drew an exponential through my noise."
21:14:18 [Morbus]
wish i had more time to do crap.
21:15:29 [sbp]
why not patent something useful? http://it.mycareer.com.au/news/2001/07/03/FFXQ7G9HJOC.html
21:16:33 [deus_x]
I should try Plucky again. I ran it, it showed headlines, and then it didn't do anything else other than sit there and occasionally show a beachball on OS X.
21:17:24 [Morbus]
does it show descriptions as well? or just hl's?
21:17:34 [deus_x]
Just headlines, thus far.
21:17:34 [AaronSw]
descriptions will be in 1.0
21:17:48 [Morbus]
cool. along with a $15 pricetag ;)
21:18:37 [AaronSw]
There are some crazy apache modules
21:18:46 [Morbus]
heh.
21:18:53 [sbp]
cool: http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/examples.htm
21:18:54 [Morbus]
i think i'll be touching on some in part 5.
21:18:55 [Morbus]
dunno
21:18:57 [Morbus]
part 6, rather.
21:19:10 [Morbus]
i use one that hooks into MRTG to create vhost bandwidth measures. works nice
21:20:26 [rillian]
rillian has quit ("linux")
21:22:01 [Morbus]
AaronSw, what did you use to add 'filenames' to your RU .opml file?
21:22:15 [AaronSw]
search-and-replace
21:22:24 [Morbus]
k
21:23:58 [Morbus]
http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lpb/muddex/vv.html
21:23:59 [Morbus]
http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lpb/muddex/vv.html
21:25:04 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.google.com/programming-contest/
21:25:08 [chumpster]
D: Google Programming Contest from AaronSw
21:27:49 [AaronSw]
D::$10,000 if you write a program that does something interesting with lots of web pages hey give you.
21:27:50 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:35:57 [AaronSw]
D::What would you run on Google's multi-billion document repository?
21:36:00 [chumpster]
commented item D
21:36:48 [sbp]
rm *
21:36:51 [sbp]
just for a laugh
21:37:14 [sbp]
[bang goes any chance of me ever getting a job at Google]
21:38:11 [sbp]
I presume that it would be impossible to erase all of the files through a short shell command
21:38:26 [AaronSw]
i hope so
21:39:23 [AaronSw]
Hey, where were you when Dan was making fun of your code, eh?
21:40:28 [Morbus]
who?
21:40:42 [AaronSw]
that was to sbp about Dan Connolly
21:40:49 [sbp]
Hmm... perhaps I'd run something to export all of the links as RDF
21:40:55 [sbp]
DanC was making fun of my code again?
21:41:02 [AaronSw]
yeah, goynifiad
21:41:04 [sbp]
aw, did I miss it?
21:41:10 [sbp]
heh! great
21:41:12 [AaronSw]
We were discussing the Plex.
21:41:17 [sbp]
where's that? ooh, where?
21:41:23 [AaronSw]
in #rdfig
21:42:45 [sbp]
2002-02-05 19:35:18 <AaronSw> unfortunately query.py fails its unit tests. (cough! cough! sbp)
21:43:04 [AaronSw]
cough! cough!
21:43:05 [sbp]
yeah, I noticed that. They fail for me too - it was when I converted all the code over to the 'Plex RDF API
21:43:14 [sbp]
the original ones still work, AFAIK
21:43:43 [AaronSw]
well it'd work if you didn't reparse the store!
21:46:32 [sbp]
argh. Yeah, that's a problem, isn't it?
21:49:27 [sbp]
Hmm... he didn't really criticize the code itself though, did he?
21:49:50 [sbp]
except for the reparsing bit, which is fair enough
21:50:00 [AaronSw]
--
21:50:01 [AaronSw]
<DanC> # Now reparse the store
21:50:01 [AaronSw]
<DanC> ^???
21:50:02 [AaronSw]
<DanC> re-parse during a query?
21:50:02 [AaronSw]
--
21:50:23 [AaronSw]
the look on his face was priceless
21:50:34 [AaronSw]
well, in his font rather.
21:50:37 [sbp]
heh!
21:50:57 [AaronSw]
too bad it doesn't show up in the logs, does it?
21:51:10 [sbp]
of course it does
21:51:14 [sbp]
[off] on #rdfig
21:51:25 [sbp]
heh... it was a horkingly bad hack
21:51:34 [Morbus]
on amphetadesk, should i work on an improved webserver (with no forking), or something else?
21:51:46 [Morbus]
for the next part of the modulariozation.
21:54:39 [sbp]
from the contest page: "We provide source code in C++. You may alternatively choose to write your code in Java"
21:54:44 [sbp]
ooh, ooh, yes please!
21:55:08 [AaronSw]
how about _deletion_ ;)
21:55:15 [Morbus]
dammit. no.
21:55:19 [Morbus]
that won't be much much later.
21:55:20 [Morbus]
;)
21:55:50 [Morbus]
that won't be until after the modularization, and after i turn the channel data into DBM stuff.
21:56:36 [AaronSw]
pfff
21:59:40 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw gets ready for first Driver's Ed. class
21:59:40 [AaronSw]
laters
22:07:59 [deus_x]
Morbus: I'd say work on putting the data into something search/query/sortable :)
22:08:56 [deus_x]
That's part of why I started playing with the python stuff. I saw Peerkat, and saw it used a portable lil pure-python SQL database called Gadfly. Figgered that'd work nicely.
22:09:24 [Morbus]
yeah, but i don't wanna get into that stuff until i finish the modulraization.
22:09:37 [Morbus]
the modularization is and will be finished first, no quesitons. ;)
22:09:47 [deus_x]
Likely the best path :)
22:09:53 [Morbus]
because then it'll be easier to get other people to help me without chuckling at my perl4 code <G>
22:10:00 [deus_x]
Well, not likely. Definitely.
22:10:47 [deus_x]
That, and it'll be easier to swap other parts in and out and wrap things in other things, and you know all the other whatzis modularization get you.
22:10:57 [Morbus]
right, exactly.
22:11:08 [deus_x]
I just wanted to say thingy and whatzits
22:11:14 [Morbus]
like the fucking webserver i have now starts over in one file, which is good, but it needs hooks into the other file to work correctly.
22:11:16 [Morbus]
its all messed up.
22:11:27 [Morbus]
i jsut barely finsihed a workign settings.pm, which is nice.
22:12:02 [deus_x]
Hmm, I'd say yank all that webserver stuff out into one module and make it call other modules as responders...
22:12:19 [deus_x]
That's where they all tend to end up anyway.
22:12:35 [Morbus]
thats what i'm planning on doing ;)
22:12:47 [Morbus]
in the process of doing that, i want to switch to http::Daemon too, which should be interesting.
22:12:53 [deus_x]
Then, at some point, it could get shoved behind another httpd
22:13:00 [Morbus]
right.
22:13:13 [Morbus]
part of going to http::Daemon is because it allows me ot better change the api.
22:13:22 [Morbus]
which makes the much requested CGI version a lot easier to do.
22:13:28 [deus_x]
Ding ding :)
22:13:30 [Morbus]
em@w3c should like that.
22:13:55 [deus_x]
I think I have a few webservers laying around here, one of them might even use HTTP::Daemon... hmm
22:14:11 [Morbus]
i've seen tons of examples on various sites.
22:14:23 [Morbus]
i'm just worried about how it determines mime types and that crap.
22:14:26 [Morbus]
i do all that stuff manually now.
22:14:35 [Morbus]
plus, i'll be adding the cgi.pm module to handle all the form requests.
22:14:37 [deus_x]
They're working on the end-all authoritative Perl Webserver, but it's all POE
22:14:52 [Morbus]
i've already figured out how to use cgi.pm to listen to a webserver in its own process ;0
22:15:06 [deus_x]
But then end-all-authoratative is probably just encompassing the nuts who visit #perl :)
22:15:11 [Morbus]
yeah, there's a dnhttpd over at sf.net, but its all pure sockets, and not very modularized.
22:16:30 [deus_x]
Heh... just curious, is anyone else actually using that quick OS X gui I whipped up?
22:16:43 [Morbus]
it hasn't been distributed, so no.
22:17:03 [Morbus]
but i'm still planning on using it.
22:17:06 [deus_x]
Ahh, okie. It's been working fine for me, in so far as all it does is sit there. :)
22:17:12 [Morbus]
hehehe
22:17:36 [Morbus]
hmm. thats an interesting thought.
22:18:01 [Morbus]
i wonder if i could duplicate fork on the mac, by just making physical copies of the program, and then running them as command line thingies.
22:20:42 [deus_x]
That sounds Frankensteinian :)
22:21:10 [Morbus]
heh.
22:21:13 [Morbus]
for os 9, i'm talking.
22:21:20 [deus_x]
Yeah, that's what I assumed :)
22:21:40 [Morbus]
that would make a bit of sense though.
22:21:59 [Morbus]
becuase the new design/structure allows me to have a small wrapper app that just interprets pure perl text files.
22:22:06 [Morbus]
so i wouldn't be duplicated the whole app. just the wrapper.
22:24:05 [deus_x]
Hmm... must play with MacPerl more
22:30:48 [sbp]
* sbp plays "Martha My Dear"
22:41:45 [Morbus]
i am going home soon. yay!
22:42:18 [Morbus]
ok. have a question:
22:42:28 [Morbus]
should the amphetadesk webserver *by default* be accessibel from the web?
22:42:33 [Morbus]
(it can be turned on / off either way).
22:44:32 [sbp]
if it is on, you should make sure that users know about it...
22:45:10 [Morbus]
in all versions of ampheta, right now, it son.
22:45:14 [Morbus]
its on, rather
22:45:25 [Morbus]
so, thats a problem.
22:45:30 [Morbus]
so i think i will make it default to off.
22:45:35 [Morbus]
or, locahost, only.
22:48:56 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")
22:52:16 [sbp]
@ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1796000/1796236.stm
22:52:23 [chumpster]
E: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1796000/1796236.stm from sbp
22:52:33 [sbp]
E:|Listening to the Web on the Radio
22:52:35 [chumpster]
titled item E
22:53:45 [sbp]
E::Well, we have [http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/|IP-by-carrier-pigeon], so why not by letter and radio?
22:53:47 [chumpster]
commented item E
22:54:59 [sbp]
E::Seriously though, this is a good scheme to bring selected bits of news from the Web to remote parts of Sri Lanka, where most people have no way of accessing the Internet, and often don't speak English
22:55:01 [chumpster]
commented item E
22:59:44 [sbp]
weird: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_513839.html?menu=news.quirkies
22:59:53 [sbp]
"A judge in Maine has ruled that women can jog naked in public."
23:00:11 [sbp]
and the wonderful: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_513827.html?menu=news.quirkies
23:00:22 [sbp]
"A man is celebrating his 100th birthday by carrying the Winter Olympic Games torch in his wheelchair."
23:39:31 [sbp]
* sbp gets the #swhack logs from the Web
23:39:56 [sbp]
someone should cough them at www-archive :-)
23:41:52 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@s88.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
23:55:25 [sbp]
so far, #swhack has only produced 3 days of more thank 100KB
23:55:25 [sbp]
112589 Jan 16 23:58 2002-01-16.txt
23:55:25 [sbp]
109987 Nov 2 23:49 2001-11-02.txt
23:55:26 [sbp]
100035 Dec 20 23:58 2001-12-20.txt
23:55:34 [sbp]
* sbp plays "Honey Pie"