00:09:28 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:32:20 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 01:04:10 So, I'm trying to name my Cocoa Ghostscript viewer/client 01:04:12 any ideas? 01:04:18 AquaGhost was shot down :) 01:04:44 actually, it was AquaGhost 01:37:11 gregos (~dd-my0qv2@AFontenayssB-106-1-4-162.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack 01:37:19 kiko 01:37:27 is there someone?? 01:38:39 gregos has left #swhack 01:40:18 oops, didn't notice him 02:02:25 rillian has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:13:23 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 02:20:54 wb rillian 02:32:26 * sbp listens to Reynardine 02:36:59 * sbp listens to Matty Groves 02:45:57 weird: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_511166.html?menu=news.quirkies 02:49:59 heh:- 02:50:00 [[[ 02:50:00 "Wow! RDF is so cool! You can say anything in 02:50:00 RDF! Everyone should us it!" 02:50:07 ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Feb/0004 02:50:11 that Sandro... 02:50:23 in reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Feb/0002 02:56:07 * sbp works on the EARL 1.0 RDF Schema 03:14:43 new EARL 1.0 draft schema: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2002Feb/0007 03:41:23 rillian has quit ("dinner") 03:50:40 [Global Notice] Hi all. We'll be rerouting almost all of the network in one fell swoop in just a few moments. Expect some client flooding. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for using OPN! 03:52:48 [Global Notice] In process.... 03:53:08 chumpster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:08 deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:08 xena has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:08 deus_x has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:27 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:53:27 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 03:54:52 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 03:56:00 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:56:00 deus_x (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 03:58:33 [Global Notice] Hi all. Rerouting accomplished. Apologies again for the service interruption, and thank you for using the network! 04:18:52 tansaku3 (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 04:20:39 wb tansaku 04:24:27 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 04:25:44 * sbp fiddles around with the infoset and Sands 04:25:46 Hi Wes 04:26:38 wb wmf 04:28:05 sbp: I've never seen you on for so long 04:28:41 heh, heh 04:29:24 did you see me log on as BenSw|at|science|olypiad? 04:31:15 nope 04:31:28 .google "Science Olympiad" 04:31:29 "Science Olympiad": http://www.soinc.org 04:31:51 ooh, Science Olympiad is fun 04:32:02 thanks BenSw 04:32:04 well anyway its a competition and i won 1st place in one of the things egg drop 04:32:13 cool 04:32:30 it was a invitational 04:32:41 have you done that wmf 04:32:43 ? 04:32:57 yeah, I did it 7th-12th grade 04:33:01 tansaku2 has quit (Connection timed out) 04:33:02 lol 04:33:16 what event? 04:33:33 a lot of them 04:33:48 was egg drop one of them? 04:33:55 no, I never did egg drop 04:34:02 most of the events are different now 04:34:03 tansaku3 is now known as tansaku 04:34:16 no wait it was naked egg drop back then 04:34:36 it changed last year i think\ 04:35:26 back in those days we didn't have any Web resources, either :-) 04:35:35 lol 04:36:21 I loved mousetrap vehicles 04:36:29 well im going bye 04:36:35 later 04:41:27 hello 04:41:32 hello wesley 04:41:37 Hi J 04:41:43 hey 04:41:51 hands cold, waiting for them to warm up a bit 04:41:55 busy in here, today... 04:42:00 ah, really? 04:42:02 * jeremiah is back (gone 22:21:40) 04:43:29 Hmm... is it fair to say that you can give an instance of the Element infoset class properties, even when it's just floating free in some RDF graph? 04:43:40 counter-intuitive 04:44:12 but I think so. I guess that schemata actually set constraints on the elements in just that way 04:44:46 except that for XML schemata, you get an infoset of the document, parse that infoset according to some rules, and then come up with some constraints on other infoset items 04:44:56 what a bundle of joy 04:45:58 I should write that up 04:46:32 sorry, I wasn't paying attention (lemme read it) 04:46:53 wow, I have no idea what you're talking about 04:47:01 I need to readup more on xml 04:47:10 don't worry, neither does anyone else :-) 04:47:22 heh 04:47:55 well, the thing is, I think xml is nice and grand, but I'd rather be working on other stuff, my personal view is that so many people spend so much time worrying about the data and how it can be universally read, but then never create applications that care 04:48:41 that didn't quite get my view across, maybe it's that I think people spend too much time worrying 04:50:45 yeah, we should be worrying about robots taking over the world instead 04:53:04 yeah 04:53:10 and giant tomatos that eat people 04:59:21 XML's not all that grand. Quite simple, really 04:59:43 well, some people argue that it's too complex 04:59:47 hmm 04:59:55 I think it's nice that every program can read each other's data 04:59:56 but it could have been worse. It could have been SGML 05:00:12 "read" and "understand" are two completely different things 05:00:15 parse and process 05:00:15 but I think a lot of programs need to break apart from that type of structure 05:00:20 EXACTLY 05:00:35 and I think that defining standards isn't always the way to go about it 05:00:38 well, use tab-delimited. You can still encode the XML infoset in tab-delimited RDF 05:00:49 I mean, just write the damn xml file and tell them how to understand it, don't form a standards body 05:00:51 well, you have to have standards to build tools to 05:01:04 yeah 05:01:10 I like a lot of the standards 05:01:13 that's the whole point of XML, it delegates the creation of languages to the people 05:01:22 and I don't think i've read up on a lot of them to have strong opininons 05:01:25 XML is a meta-standard, so that people can do what they want 05:01:32 uh huh 05:01:40 yeah 05:01:57 I just need a project that needs coders to do stuff 05:02:34 the thing I'm writing at the moment involves abstracting everything as much as possible, and then recording it so that it has preciser semantics. The benefits are (hopefully) that people will be able to create more accessible languages 05:02:43 the Plex needs coders to do stuff 05:02:56 s/recording/resplurging/ 05:03:07 argh 05:03:08 .time 05:03:09 2002/02/03 05:04:47.1452 Universal 05:03:13 no wonder :-) 05:03:29 yeah 05:03:38 I plan on helping with the plex as much as possible, actually 05:03:42 once I get cvs access 05:03:43 good, good 05:03:44 (cough) 05:03:46 heh, heh 05:03:53 * sbp doesn't have CVS access either 05:04:41 oh 05:04:42 odd 05:04:45 sort of 05:05:23 can you imagine though, I'm 16, what if I kept a weblog until I'm 80 and kept it public 05:05:24 I just send crap to Aaron, and he checks it in if he sees fit 05:05:31 lo 05:05:32 l 05:05:33 hey ben 05:05:36 hello 05:05:43 aaron's brother I'd guess? 05:06:04 weblog for that amount of time: you'd be like a modern day Samuel Peyps 05:06:20 yes but AaronSw wont be happy that i told you :-) 05:06:34 s/Peyps/Pepys/ 05:06:50 * jeremiah does not know of this samuel 05:07:19 .google Samuel Pepys 05:07:20 Samuel Pepys: http://www.hinchbk.cambs.sch.uk/original/pepys.html 05:08:52 I deleted some really old stuff, I should have kept it 05:09:08 old journals, but I have them for around a year now, i think 05:12:03 Gotta run 05:12:09 bye tansaku 05:12:11 sbp 05:12:13 whoops 05:47:33 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:48:14 BenSwX: are you Carbon or Cocoa? 05:48:42 hmm don't know what you mean 05:49:12 I assumed that if you port BenSw to OS X you get BenSwX :-) 05:50:03 lol 05:50:21 I think he's cocoa 05:50:44 it's a great programming environment to talk about, because everyone think's you're talking about your ghetto girlfriend 05:51:22 BenSwX has quit (Client Quit) 06:26:24 jeremiah has quit (Remote closed the connection) 06:32:28 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:32:49 BenSwX has quit (Client Quit) 06:45:23 Hmm. The Fountainhead is actually quite a good book. 06:45:33 uh oh 06:45:48 Ayn Rand is crazy, of course. 06:45:59 ah, ok 06:46:13 But it's almost like an archist 1984 or Brave New World, 'cept the last bit gets a little weird. 06:46:21 err anarchist 06:46:47 I haven't read any of her books, but her followers turn me off 06:47:34 Yeah, same here. But I figured I should read them so I could at least respond. 06:48:06 The major premise is how one man wants to build buildings that are fundamentally Right, in a world where people simply repeat the dreck that the media feeds them. 06:48:29 calling David McCusker! :-) 06:48:42 Heh, it made me think of him quite a bit. 06:49:29 the next time I go to meet tav, maybe I'll brind DavidMc along... 06:49:48 Ooh, I want to see that meeting. ;-) 06:52:47 have you read any nietzsche? 06:53:01 nope. just the quote in the preface. 06:53:16 a philosophy professor told me ayn rand is like nietzsche for the masses 06:53:39 Hmm. 06:54:53 Rand: "I removed [the quote] because of my profound disagreement with the philosophy of its author, Friedrich Nietzsche." 06:55:34 "Philosophically, Nietzsche is a mystic and an irrationalist." 06:55:57 well, I don't know since I haven't read both 06:58:46 comsic humor -- jer: "so this restuarant where I'm supposed to play a show in like 3 weeks got shut down for selling crack" 06:59:27 too bad; the band usually smokes for free :-) 07:00:47 so I found out why OS X is so slow 07:03:14 I wonder what kendall would think of Morbus' latest comments about his gf. ;-) 07:03:26 what? where? 07:04:26 why is OS X so slow? 07:04:33 this is like the secret to human happiness. 07:04:43 is it that the scheduler sucks? 07:04:47 Hmm, there's a rich quote about standards bodies in The Fountainhead. 07:04:59 did you see those lmbench numbers? something is going on in the kernel, and it ain't good 07:05:22 [17:42] why does keareny only respond when i'm at work? 07:05:22 [17:43] maybe he's fucking my girlfriend right now. 07:06:16 I'm not sure why kendall would care about bill kearney and mobus's gf 07:06:54 kendall was making fun of morbus' misogyny the other day 07:07:01 in the kernel? but how could it? it's open source -- that was supposed to cure all evils, right? 07:08:40 too bad the monkeyfist weblog doesn't have permalinks, or i'd link to it. 07:09:51 I've long wondered why Apple is keeping their Mach/BSD hybrid instead of just using the FreeBSD kernel 07:10:25 Maybe the NeXT folks just can't let go. 07:10:33 maybe 07:11:47 anyway, I think some profiling is in order 07:11:52 yikes! those lmbench numbers are quite something. 07:12:28 no kidding. I'd be embarrassed if it was my code 07:15:00 i'm embarassed just to run it 07:15:54 and between the new scheduler, new block layer, and the radix-tree page cache, linux 2.5 is looking good 07:18:30 now we just need a new linus, i guess 07:19:52 nah, linus will be fine after we get him off the rack (mwahaha) 07:21:39 larry macvoy's comments in the patch penguin thread are interesting 07:21:54 er, mcvoy 07:24:28 so do you think I'll ever get kicked off ETP.com? 07:24:53 Hmm, that's quite a question. 07:25:26 even though I'm high in the rankings, I have a lot fewer hits/day than the top sites 07:25:38 (Zipf's law at work) 07:25:54 I think you're on the lower ends of the list. 07:27:01 @ http://www.userland.com/mostReadSitesYesterday 07:27:09 A: Most Read Sites Yesterday from wmf 07:28:50 by two orders of magnitude, it would seem. 07:29:10 what makes MattyG so popular? 07:30:52 @ http://themes.editthispage.com/stats/referers 07:30:58 B: http://themes.editthispage.com/stats/referers from wmf 07:31:54 wow. quite a distribution 07:31:58 B::a very long-tailed distribution 07:31:59 commented item B 07:32:05 B::all searches 07:32:06 commented item B 07:32:16 B:|MattyG Referers 07:32:17 titled item B 07:32:36 it's because dave links to him, i bet. 07:38:08 I am probably killing the servers by loading the referers page for each of the top sites 07:39:34 heh 07:43:59 DSR referers still loading... 07:46:31 .email me@aaronsw.com to read: the stone canal by ken macleod // via wmf 07:46:32 email successfully sent. 07:46:52 DSR referers page finally loading... 07:47:16 it's awesome; I hope you like it 07:47:58 DSR referers still rendering... 07:48:07 Thanks. It'd be cool to read a Ken MacLeod book, if only because he always ruins my google searches. 07:48:15 heh 07:48:39 * AaronSw wonders if DSR's referers contain some deeply DSRs. 07:48:56 * wmf clicks the stop button 07:49:33 wow, it looks like the DSR referers page locked up OmniWeb 07:49:51 [cough] leakypeek 07:49:58 indeed 07:50:08 earlier today it leaked to 1GB 07:50:21 oh man! 07:50:29 serious pain 07:50:58 * wmf force quits omniweb 07:51:16 * AaronSw grabs referers in IE5 07:51:21 I couldn't resist. 07:53:04 wow, 1.4MBs. 07:54:10 that wasn't so bad. 07:54:29 and the number one referer is, at 51 points, http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=dog+fucking&hc=0&hs=0 07:58:35 .news hack the planet 1 07:58:38 PARC Modular Reconfigurable Robotics. - PARC Modular Reconfigurable Robotics.Thevideosare amazing. - http://www.parc.xerox.com/spl/projects/modrobots/ 07:58:54 yeah, i was just watching the climbing one 08:00:08 * wmf is very sleepy 08:00:12 wmf has quit ("zzz") 08:00:38 * AaronSw notices the time 08:00:55 the fountainhead was really engrossing. i wonder what tav thinks of it. 09:51:13 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:03:21 tansaku4 (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:51:43 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:10:18 tansaku4 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:28:56 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:12:48 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:01:34 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:18:42 @ http://geoffreygrosenbach.com/plucky.html 15:18:50 C: http://geoffreygrosenbach.com/plucky.html from AaronSw 15:18:58 C:|PluckyX Headline Grabber 15:18:59 titled item C 15:19:58 C::A GUI RSS reader for the Mac OS 15:19:58 commented item C 15:25:12 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:16:24 @ http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/senate-testimony 16:16:26 D: http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/senate-testimony from AaronSw 16:25:36 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:26:13 D::"After 15 years of extensive promotion, only 20% of American households contain CD players. Only a small fraction of these chose to buy one equipped with the digital output necessary to make digital-to-digital copies." 16:26:15 commented item D 16:30:31 D:|Philip Greenspun's Testimony Against the Audio Home Recording Act of 1991 16:30:33 titled item D 16:32:27 D::See also Philip's [Tape Tax History|http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/tape-tax-history.html]: "November 1992: one day before he is voted out of office by the American people, George "No New Taxes" Bush signs the bill creating a new kind of tax, two new taxes, a new bureaucracy, and seven new legal causes of action." 16:32:28 commented item D 17:07:51 * sbp catches up 17:08:12 Not much to catch up on. I'll check my mail instead 17:08:57 Not much of that, either 17:10:02 Pff, I'll go an eat instead 17:10:07 s/an/and/ 17:12:47 Heh. 17:18:30 * sbp waves, with stuff cooking 17:19:24 * sbp decided that the constraints gathered by parsing XML Schemata are clearly not on actual instances of the infoset classes - that doesn't make the least bit of sense 17:19:51 the constraints must be separate, on things like xsd:Element, and then you'll have some rules to apply those constraints to your parsed XML document 17:20:46 which, when you think about it, is how XML schema validators must work. They parse an XML document into the store, then parse an XML schema document and check those constraints against the material in the store 17:21:39 So it must be possible to map both the infoset and the XML schema constraints onto the RDF model, and then apply rules for validation 17:22:15 although you'd have to be mad/paid to translate all of XML Schema into RDF 17:22:34 translating the obvious bits wouldn't be too difficult, I suppose... 17:24:33 Hmm, yesterday was Groundhog Day? 17:25:13 was it? 17:25:44 yeah, you're right 17:30:03 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:33:51 good intro: """The purpose of a schema is to define a class of XML documents, and so the term "instance document" is often used to describe an XML document that conforms to a particular schema. In fact, neither instances nor schemas need to exist as documents per se -- they may exist as streams of bytes sent between applications, as fields in a database record, or as collections of XML Infoset "Information Items" -- but to simplify the primer, we have chosen to alw 17:35:30 Hmm... I don't think it's possible to reconstruct an XML document given its infoset representation 17:35:51 because the list of children for an element is an unordered list - so how would you reconstruct the order? 17:36:26 oops, my mistake: "An ordered list of child information items, in document order." 17:37:14 Pff, that was quite a misreading 17:40:16 This is really cool. Google adopted Kottke's design changes: http://www.google.com/news/newsheadlines.html 17:41:11 wow 17:41:40 that is impressive 17:45:19 D::I [wrote a letter to my congressman|http://logicerror.com/dmcaLetter] about the DMCA and music. 17:45:21 commented item D 17:47:46 wow, you wrote your congressman? That's like the last resort, is it not? :-) 17:50:02 heh 17:54:25 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Badgers? We don't need no steenkin' badgers! 17:54:33 http://www.darryl.com/badges/ 17:57:16 heh, that's quite cool. Don't forget to chump it 17:58:18 wacky: "Starting today, a variety of AM, FM, shortwave and Internet radio stations around the world will begin a broadcast of an automated voice reading the source for the Linux kernel -- all 4,141,432 lines of it. The estimated time to completion is nearly two years (by which point, presumably, the code will be obsolete and superceded by a more recent version)." 17:58:22 @ http://www.darryl.com/badges/ 17:58:29 E: Stinking Badges Home Page from AaronSw 17:59:10 E::via [Boing Boing|http://boingboing.net/2002_02_01_archive.html#9285201] 17:59:23 commented item E 17:59:31 E::See also: the [FoRK FAQ's section|http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~adam/local/faq-fork.html#badges]. 17:59:39 commented item E 18:02:29 that is wacky indeed 18:25:12 "They say we can't visualize total nothing. Hell, sit at any committee meeting!" - Kent Lansing in The Fountainhead 18:35:41 karld (~karld@macy.Stanford.EDU) has joined #swhack 18:39:04 karld has left #swhack 18:45:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:52:23 Etymology of FU: http://www.familychronicle.com/agincort.htm 19:36:51 I think instead of syaing HTP DG I'll just say FoWF 19:55:39 Hmm, PluckyX is really nice 19:57:43 PluckyX? 19:57:51 yeah, http://geoffreygrosenbach.com/plucky.html 19:59:48 funky 20:00:02 it's like a GUI ampheta 20:02:24 Wes: "I think [human] evolution is over, because natural selection is over. Virtually everyone stays alive. I'm not complaining." 20:02:49 Pff, I've been saying that for years 20:03:08 Yeah, he was just commenting on this Guardian story which says it's highly controvertial: http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,644002,00.html 20:03:20 seems rather obvious to me, outside of the darwin awards, of course. 20:04:03 well, it's not over, but it's grinding to a halt, I think 20:04:38 I think the comments like "this is utopia" are rather off base. evolution isn't everything. 20:04:55 absolutely 20:05:02 and this is probably wrong, too: 'Then, quite abruptly, these people were replaced by light, tall, highly intelligent people who arrived from Africa and took over the world. You simply cannot predict evolutionary events like this. Who knows where we are headed?' 20:05:23 current theories are that there was cross-breeding 20:05:36 yeah, it's a big controversy. i go for love over war. 20:06:48 interesting cro-magnon/neanderthal comparison: http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/neander.html 20:07:26 ah, this is what I was searching for: http://www.flatlandbooks.com/gooch.html 20:09:20 Hmm... perhaps not 20:09:29 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 20:10:16 That's quite a weird little article 20:16:10 * sbp runs the Sands test 20:23:52 ugh, CWM really seems to barf up parsing of an external document 20:24:02 it's adding the semantics to the store even when I don't want it to 20:30:08 Cool! People are making other OS X themes. 20:33:53 Hmm... is the sands:Element class the class of all constraints upon members of the infoset:Element class? 20:34:37 here's what I have:-0 20:34:37 s/0// 20:34:37 [[[ 20:34:37 sands:Element a rdfs:Class; rdfs:label "Element"; 20:34:38 rdfs:comment "The class of all constraints on infoset elements"; 20:34:40 rdfs:seeAlso infoset:Element . # sands:constraintClassOf 20:34:42 ]]] 20:41:56 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 20:42:43 Hey wes. 20:43:32 If a MacOS X app had to quit because of an uncatched OutOfBoundsException, does that mean it's in Java? 20:44:01 maybe 21:36:03 Where's Morbus? He could get more free stuff with his Apache skillz: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001192/2002/02/03.html#a20 21:38:29 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 21:38:50 hey jer 21:38:52 hey 21:38:58 hmm, you might know the answer to this: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001192/2002/02/03.html#a20 21:40:09 interesting 21:40:56 I think I know what he's asking 21:41:30 I never recalled .htaaccess using users and groups though, i thought it used a custom file, so you would have to tie it into the login system, which would prob require custom code 21:43:04 Hm. 21:43:49 I think he would like anyway of restricting users. 21:45:57 maybe I'll email him 21:46:36 but I'm sure there are other people emailing him who know signifigantly more about it 21:51:20 what do you use for your irc, and if so, how do you have it notify you when there are new messages? 21:52:51 I use Snak for OS X and hit has little red lights go on when someone speaks. xchat too. 21:53:02 ok 22:01:15 hazmat (~ender@63.100.190.94) has joined #swhack 22:02:36 brb. switching dirc instance to vorpal. 22:02:48 AaronSw has quit ("Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.0.1") 22:02:57 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 22:02:59 wb 22:03:38 Aaron (~Snak@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 22:03:52 AaronSw has quit (Client Quit) 22:03:52 wb^2 22:04:10 Aaron is now known as AaronSw 22:04:20 well that was fun. 22:27:54 * AaronSw works on his new homepage 22:28:23 new homepage? 22:28:55 yeah, i'm redesigning it with the read/write/collaborate theme 22:29:05 ah 22:29:27