00:15:04 tansaku (~sam@n145-050.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:34:25 @ http://www.boardsmag.com/screeningroom/musicvideos/220/ 00:34:34 A: http://www.boardsmag.com/screeningroom/musicvideos/220/ from AaronSw 00:34:46 A:|Music Video: White Stripes - Fell In Love With A Girl 00:34:47 titled item A 00:34:58 A::It's cool because it's entirely made of Lego. 00:34:58 commented item A 01:06:03 Heh, jer fell asleep reading chord docs 01:06:17 heh, heh 01:09:19 insane! http://www.plastic.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/28/1629243&from=rdf 01:11:20 fuck, that really is bizarre 01:13:32 "Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road." 01:19:56 original: http://proliberty.com/observer/20020101.htm 02:25:00 Gotta run 03:01:34 whoa, well that was fun 03:01:45 GLTron took over my screen for a while 03:03:31 GLTron? 03:07:39 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:10:30 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:11:23 yeah, that game ken pointed us to 03:15:43 ah 03:28:14 heh.. it's a cool game 03:35:55 Wow, my little EARL "check for fixes" filter worked first time 03:37:06 @ http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist 03:37:08 B: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist from AaronSw 03:37:17 check for fixes? 03:37:55 B:|TAG issues list 03:37:57 titled item B 03:40:52 yeah. So, if a tool fails a test on day x, and then passes the same test on day x+1, it's been fixed 03:43:32 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 03:43:41 hey Mr. Revisionist History :-) 03:46:19 heh 03:46:28 it was tempting, but i only appended 03:47:34 but i keep getting emails from rdf folks 03:47:56 about that? odd 03:48:09 yeah, with bad jokes about my logical abilities 03:48:33 it must be linked from some prominent place 03:49:14 .google swartz logic 03:49:15 swartz logic: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-logic/2001Aug/0031.html 03:50:59 * sbp listens again to Whispering Grass, Sandy Denny 03:52:39 hmm, i wonder if i can get a unix account out of the w3c. that'd be cool 03:53:13 Sw3c 03:54:26 wmf, quick get all your Web Architecture issues resolved. it's Ask The TAG! http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist 03:55:17 woohoo! 03:56:16 Dear TAG, My friend Aaron says that fragURIs are nutty. What's wrong with him? Sincerely, sbp 03:56:43 * sbp listens to Whispering Grass again 03:57:03 To Troubled-in-HTTP-Space: it is not your friend but you who are nutty. Don't you realize that fragURIs are of the devil? Sincerely, The TAG. 03:57:36 That's just how they'd put it, too 03:57:59 (it was drafted by you-know-who) 04:05:35 * sbp manages to work out the chords for Whispering Grass rather quickly 04:14:46 @ http://norvig.com/python-iaq.html 04:14:51 C: Python IAQ: Infrequently Answered Questions from AaronSw 04:17:23 I did wonder about x++ 04:18:01 heh, the bit about "abstract" is funny 04:20:10 yeah. Java sucks 04:33:37 Ach, I can't get Apache\PHP\MySQL to work 04:34:02 2I might aswell give up 04:34:22 whoa, you're speaking in color 04:34:47 lol, its a feature of x-chat, btw did you get Toast to worK? 04:35:03 yes, it's much better than using the finder 04:35:08 I think you type 4 ot something 04:35:19 I think you type % C 4 or something 04:35:34 contracted of course, for red atleast 04:38:17 I2-14n2-15v2-10i2-11s2-2i4o5n 04:39:41 I2-14n2-15v2-10i2-11s2-2i2-4o2-5n 04:40:31 heh: "I don't know why Joe Clark has such a bone to pick with me" - http://benturner.com/soapbox/2000/camposts.txt 04:40:41 he has a bone to pick with practically everyone and anyone 04:44:52 he's Joe Clark 04:46:03 4 04:46:16 %0 l 04:51:44 Wes, you already have a standard talk? 04:51:51 sure 04:52:43 what about? 04:52:52 P2P infrastructure 04:55:08 another day, another power mac speed bump, another replay of the ppc/intel benchmark flame wars... 04:55:41 heh 04:57:46 I predict the TiBook will go to 800 at the next speed bump 04:58:18 that's all? we want a Ghz! 04:58:29 @ http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020128S0037 04:58:36 D: SiliconStrategies.com - Motorola pushes PowerPC to 1-GHz with SOI technology from wmf 04:59:15 So is Austin the real Silicon Something-or-other? 04:59:33 D:\ the TiBook currently has the 7440; it will probably get the 7445 at 800MHz 04:59:38 silicon hills 04:59:54 it's D::, not D:\ here 05:00:11 D::the TiBook currently has the 7440; it will probably get the 7445 at 800MHz 05:00:12 commented item D 05:00:17 perhaps we should get the p2pwg to standardize these things or something 05:00:25 you and your nonstandard chump syntax 05:05:42 looks like a new cinema display is coming 05:11:04 BenSw is now known as BenSw|bed 05:13:59 G'night all 05:14:15 'night Ben 05:14:36 I think I'm gonna go to sleep. maybe i'll even get something done tomorrow. 05:15:39 nite 05:18:23 c'ya 06:36:44 tansaku (~sam@n146-067.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:39:04 xena has left #swhack 06:39:06 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 07:03:23 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 07:10:52 GabeW has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:11:03 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 07:19:37 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 08:06:24 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 09:41:20 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:00:02 tansaku (~sam@n146-067.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:35:12 tansaku2 (~sam@h134-170.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:39:10 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:47:36 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 15:42:59 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:16:04 kham (kmnguyen@dhcp-29-111.imt.uwm.edu) has joined #swhack 17:16:17 hello all 17:16:27 hello Aaron 17:17:55 hi 17:20:29 I read your no-school email 17:20:45 very good and interesting 17:20:50 thanks 17:21:36 I think you are on right trach towards success 17:21:39 track 17:23:32 getting a group of talented programmers together is a great idea. 17:24:08 yeah, it's very difficult, tho 17:24:29 true, the logistics is burdensome 17:26:29 tav has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:26:29 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:44:31 Hmm, The Register says there'll be a CodeCon webcast. 17:49:49 kham has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:51:25 deltab has quit ("changing servers") 17:51:25 deltab_ (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 17:53:26 deltab_ is now known as deltab 19:21:10 Scienide (~eddr_yeah@mail.olympic-catering.gr) has joined #swhack 19:30:06 *snore* 19:30:11 anyone alive? 19:45:09 Scienide has left #swhack 19:50:05 deus_x (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 20:36:03 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 20:40:10 * jeremiah is alive 20:40:16 * jeremiah is away: I'm busy 20:40:19 * jeremiah is back (gone 00:00:02) 20:40:33 heh 20:41:06 how much longer is this flood gonna take? 20:41:22 you just do it so we'll have a public record, right? 20:41:28 yeah 20:41:32 should be done in a sec 20:41:39 ok 21:16:37 AaronSw has changed the topic to: With 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096 channels, there's bound to be something you're interested in. 21:16:50 Argh! 21:16:52 AaronSw has changed the topic to: The Plex: With 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096 channels, there's bound to be something you're interested in. 21:17:03 hey there sbp 21:17:10 Hi 21:18:50 why "Argh!"? 21:19:29 big topic 21:19:37 heh, yeah. 21:19:49 does it make your client go wonky? 21:20:03 nope 21:20:25 I was just looking at the title bar at the time, and all of a sudden it was filled with numbers 21:20:34 Heh, heh. 21:20:58 I was thinking it'd be cool to make a map of the Plex at some point, but you'd have to lose a lot of detail with that many nodes. 21:24:10 yeah. Like my logicerror SVG map? 21:24:29 yeah, except you'd need [big number in topic] spots. 21:27:11 heh. Yes... 21:27:28 that'd be one big SVG 21:27:40 oh, yeah 21:47:16 heh: http://www.w3.org/2001/08/AnnoteaOxygenDemo 21:47:58 "EARL or a similar format" 21:48:00 what's so funny? 21:48:13 and it's nice that they don't actually use EARL at all. Not even a little bit 21:48:20 "accessibility defects" is funny. 21:48:38 yeah 21:48:40 "We would like this tool to produce RDF metadata, such as EARL, but the tool reports the findings in a proprietory XML format." 21:48:48 Blast those "proprietory" tools! 21:48:59 You stupid Brits bring your politics into everything... 21:49:13 lol! 21:49:26 Hmm... written by Ralph 21:49:43 well, last revision was by Ralph. Possibly authored by Marja 21:49:58 Did you see zakim's new super features? 21:50:04 nope 21:50:14 he does queue-tracking and agenda-tracking now 21:50:39 so he'll listen to: 21:50:39 Pretty cool. All RDF backed, I presume? 21:50:43 * AaronSw raises hand 21:50:46 and: 21:50:48 chair acks AaronSw 21:50:51 and umute me 21:50:54 err unmute me 21:51:14 RDF: something like that. 21:51:30 and you can ask him who's up next, etc. 21:51:33 that's a nice feature. Does it handle it so that only one person at a time can be unmuted (except the chair)? 21:51:47 or have some type of limit? 21:51:50 i think you can have it do that. 21:51:54 you just say: 21:51:56 zakim, mute sbp 21:52:08 it's great fun to do that while they're talking ;-) 21:52:15 heh, heh, I'll bet 21:52:36 Jon: [rambles on] 21:52:37 Zakim, mute Jon 21:52:37 Chair: moving right along... 21:52:47 Jon is a made up name, BTW. 21:53:53 sure :-) 21:55:21 Gotta run 21:58:07 * AaronSw plays with zakim-bot 21:58:12 * AaronSw raises hand 21:58:13 * Zakim sees AaronSw on the speaker queue 21:58:13 chair acks aaronsw 21:58:13 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 22:09:28 wow! zakim even supports "ping us in 10 minutes" 22:33:32 I like this line: 22:33:36 # Very important to leave this line in for the sake of future historians. 22:33:36 self.if_doQ_thread_i_am_i_am_then_start_new_doQ_thread_with_spam = None 22:33:42 - pyutil.DoQ 23:01:33 kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 23:01:51 DoidT (~besirc@host217-35-164-1.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 23:02:53 does Julian hang around here often? 23:03:02 xena: seen Julian 23:03:15 hmm 23:03:29 who's julian? 23:03:32 jbond? 23:03:37 .seen jbod 23:03:37 AaronSw: no match found: jbod 23:03:38 .seen jbond 23:03:38 jbond seen in #syndic8 saying: [ I need to krash. See ya ] ~ 76 day(s) 23 hr(s) 24 min(s) 51 sec(s) ago 23:04:32 hehe, guess not 23:05:01 heh, heh 23:05:04 I had a disagreement with his post re node databases and scripting languages 23:05:20 on voidstar.com 23:06:29 http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=715 23:07:00 ken, well i think he reads our weblog. you can counterblog it here. 23:07:10 Zope, and yes even Frontier, I think show that closely tying a DB and language is a much richer thing than a relational database 23:07:56 what's the blog syntax ehre? 23:08:20 syntax is: @ URI 23:08:25 B::text 23:08:27 commented item B 23:08:31 urgh 23:08:40 heh, heh 23:08:41 B:: 23:08:41 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist 23:08:42 TAG issues list 23:08:43 (AaronSw) text 23:08:50 nice 23:09:07 B::of issues are availavle here. 23:09:08 commented item B 23:09:34 that would have been a nice fix, had you have spelled "available" correctly 23:09:41 urgh 23:10:15 @ http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=715 23:10:20 E: Voidstar from kmacleod 23:10:52 title? 23:10:59 E:|title 23:11:02 "Voidstar" 23:11:12 it already has a title, but you can override it 23:11:59 E:|VoidStar: Relational db as good as object DB? not currently 23:12:00 titled item E 23:14:28 E::Yes, hundreds of thousands of web sites all use relational databases, but to do so they all (almost to the last) do so by using SQL directly or wrapping hand written or schema generated code around it -- "ick!", I say! 23:14:29 commented item E 23:15:06 ooh, I could comprise rdfs:comment property values from a concatenation of n:defintion and n:note 23:16:13 E::Zope and Frontier take a different approach by natively binding the inherent structure of the database into the language. 23:16:16 commented item E 23:16:48 I'm not sure I should say this, but I think Dave's statement that "Relational databases are good for factories and stores. Object databases map the model of the Web. Just change the slashes to dots and off you go." is exactly wrong. 23:19:24 The is based upon a relational (links) not a hierarchical model. 23:19:32 Altho, it's more hierarchical (slashes) than I would like. 23:20:40 I hear .net is more node/property based. that's good. 23:20:51 and C#/CLR tightly integrated into it. 23:21:04 node/property is pretty much what Frontier does, right? 23:21:20 that's exactly along the same lines of what I'm talking about, in contrast to Julian's take on RDBs 23:22:12 hm 23:22:24 I do like the convenience of Zope's ODB. 23:23:18 but I think I like RDF DBs even better. :) 23:23:45 BenSw|bed is now known as BenSw 23:24:22 Frontier has nested dictionaries (which it calls "tables"), they're not quite nodes 23:25:20 too much chaos in RDF DBs, too little apparent structure 23:26:02 Zope's "convenience" is *exactly* the distinction to be made 23:26:50 maybe "emergent" is a better term than "apparent" 23:28:00 E::It's said that .net's data store and C#/CLR are bound in a very similar way. 23:28:02 commented item E 23:28:58 structure is overrated 23:29:17 heh 23:34:56 E::I disagree with Dave W. that hierarchy has anything in particular to do with it, except as a convenient default localized storage pattern. 23:34:57 commented item E 23:35:01 E::A graph-structured database is far more analogous to the web, and more clearly represents the distributed nature of the web. 23:35:03 commented item E 23:37:48 E::Aaron points at RDF here, and he may be right, but at this point there is no tight binding to a language and (I believe) current RDF research systems have too much chaos to their data presentation. 23:37:49 commented item E 23:38:33 E::Well, I'm working on the binding bit, and data presentation is simply a matter of, well, presentation. 23:38:37 commented item E 23:39:46 E::As I well know, from work on Orcard ;-) 23:39:48 commented item E 23:39:49 argh!!! 23:39:55 Heh. 23:40:01 s/Orcard/Orchard/ 23:40:24 E::er, "Orchard" 23:40:26 commented item E 23:40:27 E::He means [Orchard|http://orchard.sourceforge.net/]. 23:40:28 commented item E 23:40:57 SF: "This project has not yet submitted a description." 23:41:19 eh, it's dead anyway 23:41:58 I still recommend it to folks. 23:42:34 it needs a new hero 23:45:40 it parses RSS decently, which is good enough for me :) 23:46:01 heh 23:46:51 I think if Orchard/C could compile and load modules dynamically, it'd be a schweet runtime 23:47:17 and, of course, perfectly fitted as a binding to a node-view of RDF ;) 23:48:30 Heh, heh. 23:49:10 mnot has been doing some cool stuff with Python-RDF bindings that I want to work on. 23:49:16 * AaronSw gets $26.47 from Amazon on $480.20 of sales. Hmm. 23:49:32 Wow, one person actually bought a book I linked to. 23:50:09 has he bound them as py attributes? 23:50:16 yeah. 23:50:31 how did he handle namespaces? 23:50:57 you define the namespace and then do: nsname_localname 23:51:11 I'd love to submit (er, have someone submit and follow thru) on a NS RFC for Py and Perl 23:51:14 and Ruby 23:51:30 to build it into the language, you mean? 23:52:09 how'd he handle the global naming problems with nsname_localname, do you know? 23:52:19 yes, build it into the language 23:52:25 global naming problems? 23:52:46 * AaronSw is hunting for the code. 23:53:13 when you say, 'nsname_localname', do you really mean 'prefix_localname', as in dc_subject? 23:53:21 yeah 23:53:50 -- 23:53:50 world = World('here') 23:53:50 world.registerNS('person', "http://www.example.org/people#") 23:53:51 world.registerNS('contact', "http://www.example.com/contact#") 23:53:51 Thing = ThingFactory(world) 23:53:51 bob = Thing("person_bob") 23:53:53 bob.contact_phone = "555-1212" 23:53:55 -- 23:54:31 if your module Foo declares 'dc' as Dublin Core, and my module Bar declares 'dc' as BarNS, how does the library know the difference? 23:54:49 I think you just answered my question 23:54:59 that's broke, it doesn't scale. 23:55:23 ah, interesting point. 23:55:24 two module authors can't independently work on the same World 23:55:52 Orchard's namespaces are lexically scoped 23:55:56 he says the reason he did that is python doesn't allow .s in **args. 23:56:04 lexically? 23:56:31 property names are represented internally fully qualified (I used 2-tuples) 23:56:52 yes, local to the syntactical scope within the file 23:57:56 in Orchard/C, it's done at compile time by rpe-parsing the source; in Orchard/Py|Perl it's done at runtime by using NS generators 23:59:19 so i guess one way to solve the problem is to create interfaces to a world, right? 23:59:45 and have the interfaces translate from scoped ns to fully-qualified 23:59:54 PERSON = namespace("http://www.example.org/people#") 23:59:54 CONTACT = namespace("http://www.example.com/contact#") 23:59:54 bob = Thing(PERSON.bob) 23:59:54 bob[CONTACT.phone] = "555-1212"