IRC log of swhack on 2002-01-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:24 [sbp]

* sbp replies to Norm Walsh on RDF IG

00:03:26 [sbp]

Hi Tom

00:03:33 [sbp]

I hope it went through...

00:03:46 [tomc]

hi

00:05:04 [sbp]

yep: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0168

00:07:32 [AaronSw]

heeelo

00:10:03 [sbp]

heh, as if: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1783000/1783714.stm

00:10:05 [sbp]

Hi there, Aaron

00:10:27 [sbp]

ooh, it's Sunday already, so I'm breaking it

00:10:54 [sbp]

anyway, I think I'm exempt

00:12:44 [AaronSw]

<jeremiah> I think I do much less than aaron

00:12:44 [AaronSw]

<jeremiah> I just give the impression that I do a lot

00:12:47 [AaronSw]

I feel the same way. Heh.

00:14:08 [AaronSw]

Notice how they don't say why they think being in the "real world" is valuable (not that i'm saying it isn't). People just seem to assume it's obvious.

00:14:20 [AaronSw]

And I'm hearing more and more about how the online world is far more appealing.

00:14:58 [sbp]

it's especially useful if you have a disability which means it's difficult for you to get into the "outside world" :-)

00:16:29 [sbp]

tav gave me a little Plex history lesson, earlier

00:16:48 [tomc]

or if you're frightened of people.

00:16:53 [tomc]

(for example)

00:17:13 [sbp]

that would be a disability preventing you from getting into the outside world

00:17:28 [AaronSw]

<jeremiah> like say you open two "browser windows"

00:17:28 [AaronSw]

<jeremiah> and in one of them you search for files that are related to "top secret project"

00:17:28 [AaronSw]

As Gelernter says, in the future you won't put things in folders, the folders will reach out and grab them.

00:17:29 [tomc]

yes, that's my excuse :D

00:17:34 [sbp]

:-)

00:19:27 [AaronSw]

That was such an awesome day: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Sep/0067

00:24:32 [sbp]

ugh, unless I give :excludesId a cardinality restriction of 1 (i.e. make it a UniqueProperty), it's not going to work

00:26:16 [AaronSw]

I'm not going to say who I think invented the Plex, but I'd bet that if I'm in an interview or something it'll end up looking like I'm taking all the credit for it and people will get very upset with me and work will be delayed for weeks.

00:27:07 [sbp]

I'll just say deltab, and bugger it

00:27:09 [sbp]

:-)

00:27:15 [AaronSw]

Yeah, I saw.

00:27:39 [AaronSw]

I was thinking one day: deltab is so quiet that if he asked me to do some outrageous thing for him, I'd probably do it.

00:27:48 [sbp]

* sbp waves to any potential future Plex historians

00:27:49 [AaronSw]

Sorta dangerous. I hope he doesn't do that. ;-)

00:27:53 [sbp]

heh, heh

00:29:33 [AaronSw]

so, sbp, jeremiah, etc. feel free to ask questions about the Plex.

00:29:42 [sbp]

gimme a sec.

00:29:47 [AaronSw]

I was sorta disappointed to hear you thought I wasn't keeping y'all up to date.

00:30:19 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: Plex: invented by deltab, powered by Aaron Swartz's bubble gum, and patent pending

00:30:26 [AaronSw]

lol

00:30:35 [sbp]

:-)

00:30:45 [AaronSw]

[Powered by Bubble-Gum]

00:31:27 [sbp]

well, perhaps you are keeping us up-to-date. I don't know what, if anything, you're keeping back, otherwise you wouldn't be keeping it back. But I presume that you must have had conversation with people that they want you to keep confidential

00:32:02 [sbp]

And I don't fault you for it, of course. What can ya do? And it's probably better to be having those discussions rather than documenting every little bit

00:32:15 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I don't think so... I just talked to my Mom about it, but that's all I can think of.

00:32:21 [sbp]

although I must admit that I feel like I havent got the foggiest idea what's going on w.r.t. the Plex

00:32:25 [AaronSw]

It's tav doing the secret meetings

00:32:27 [sbp]

heh, heh

00:32:52 [sbp]

what's up with tav's secrecy? I don't even know his name

00:33:07 [sbp]

is he a convict on the run or something? Wanted in 7 countries?

00:33:32 [sbp]

of course, he has a right to privacy. But it's just fairly unusual

00:33:37 [AaronSw]

Well, he's wanted from the British Library system.

00:33:45 [sbp]

isn't everyone?

00:33:46 [AaronSw]

Apparently he's racked up a large fine.

00:34:11 [AaronSw]

I dunno. Here I just change names or pretend to not have any money.

00:34:27 [sbp]

heh, heh

00:34:45 [sbp]

"but I checked it back in! honest!"

00:36:24 [sbp]

I suppose the main thing that I'm wondering is how the dang thing is going to work. I know that there's the content layer, and the metadata layer, and then you have the query applications... but past that, I dunno. I presume that's what all of the discussions are about at the moment

00:36:51 [sbp]

the thing is, the Plex is almost a bit too simple. There's not really much to talk about at the moment, is there? Just waiting for the code to form, and for us to run it

00:37:08 [AaronSw]

I think I see most of it at this point, and I think I can do a decent job of explaining it. But when I try to explain it I just suck.

00:37:49 [sbp]

I suppose we'll be talking a bit about the extensibility - you said that you only want people to install it once, and then have it self-update itself through itself. That's a bit spooky, but it makes sense. A bit like downloading browser extensions using the browser, except automatically

00:37:53 [tomc]

* tomc had to pay a £10 library fine the other day *cringe*

00:38:20 [tomc]

while it's on topic :)

00:38:37 [sbp]

Oh, and I don't think I get the iedentification thing. Will we be identifying files by their SHAs, or what?

00:38:43 [sbp]

*cringe* indeed :-)

00:39:22 [tomc]

yes!

00:39:40 [tomc]

I lost a book in November

00:40:27 [AaronSw]

OK, the Plex stores triples, right?

00:40:36 [tomc]

sorry, talk about plex :)

00:40:38 [AaronSw]

So one of the triples can be <uri> :content "value" .

00:41:38 [AaronSw]

so you can refer to things by <uri> or plexname

00:41:49 [AaronSw]

or plexname-for-friend:friend'sPlexname

00:42:32 [sbp]

except that's a generalization. :content triples don't necessarily have to be believed, and they'll have to account for conneg etc. The only thing that can be checked is SHAness

00:42:50 [sbp]

and I still don't really get plexnames

00:42:50 [AaronSw]

yes

00:42:59 [AaronSw]

obviously if you want a secure reference, you need to use SHAs

00:43:04 [AaronSw]

(or something similar0

00:43:12 [sbp]

the plexnames can only be applied locally, going by the SHAs

00:43:27 [sbp]

well, I guess they're quite useful, then. Just aliases for SHAs

00:43:28 [AaronSw]

Zooko and I were discussing identification with ESL-style things.

00:43:40 [AaronSw]

no, they can do much more than identify SHAs

00:44:00 [sbp]

they won't identify SHAs, they'll be aliases for them

00:44:08 [AaronSw]

Cool, they're playing a country version of "Strawberry Fields" on PHC.

00:44:13 [sbp]

heh, heh

00:44:56 [AaronSw]

they can cover changing things too -- SHAs won't let you change a doc

00:45:11 [sbp]

fair enough

00:47:32 [sbp]

so, will every Plex client have its own UUID?

00:48:03 [AaronSw]

why would that be?

00:48:37 [sbp]

so you can stamp things that you send into the plex, if you want. Plus, you'll have your own namespace. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult to "update" a resource

00:48:59 [AaronSw]

no, they'll just use dig sigs

00:50:15 [sbp]

wonderful

00:50:33 [sbp]

[mild sarcasm - crypto in Python isn't easy, as I found out]

00:50:51 [AaronSw]

heh

00:50:56 [sbp]

then again, neither is generating a UUID

00:51:09 [AaronSw]

the XML digital signatures code is in Python

00:51:18 [sbp]

is it? neat

01:09:43 [AaronSw]

cool, zooko says he's almost done

01:10:14 [sbp]

almost done for what?

01:10:50 [AaronSw]

I was going to use his transport library (EGTP) for pychord

01:23:58 [AaronSw]

lol: http://www.somethingawful.com/spam/icq/spacerobot/index.htm

01:26:21 [sbp]

heh!

01:26:24 [sbp]

I like "It was the worst Christmas ever."

01:26:53 [sbp]

I can't believe that wasn't fabricated in some way

01:27:11 [AaronSw]

"""

01:27:11 [AaronSw]

Corn_Boy - be very careful, he is scary, does [the robot] have an off button?

01:27:11 [AaronSw]

Lowtax - No, I hard encoded the transistor gigaflop switch to the analogue Proteus nord rack 2 Quasimidi ray diode. He should turn himself off.

01:27:11 [AaronSw]

That's odd, the lights turned off.

01:27:11 [AaronSw]

Corn_Boy - be very careful, he is scary, does he have an off button?

01:27:12 [AaronSw]

"""

01:27:19 [AaronSw]

What wasn't fabricated?

01:27:39 [thc]

thc (~lambda@modem-1712.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack

01:27:51 [sbp]

lol:-

01:27:52 [sbp]

[[[

01:27:53 [sbp]

Lowtax - Venus power = radiation = the Devil! My robots will turn this and make our space program work this time! My pusher robot will shove the space shuttle, and my shover robot will push the astronauts out of harm's way. Do you understand?

01:27:53 [sbp]

Corn_Boy - not really, you must be alot smarter than me

01:27:53 [sbp]

]]]

01:29:05 [sbp]

well, I'd have been like "yeah... right, bye then"

01:29:29 [AaronSw]

there are some strange people on IRC

01:29:42 [AaronSw]

err ICQ

01:30:33 [sbp]

both, I think

01:30:47 [AaronSw]

[cough]

01:30:56 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:31:07 [sbp]

we should do that to people who enter #swhack

01:31:21 [sbp]

HI FREND, HOW ARe U? R U BORKED TOdAY?

01:31:55 [AaronSw]

Then they'd be convinced this was a cracker channel.

01:32:08 [sbp]

although I do hope that telling them that the channel is logged will be a better deterrent

01:32:15 [AaronSw]

heh

01:32:51 [AaronSw]

within a week we'll be the top hit for "jeremiah small dick"

01:33:41 [AaronSw]

because of:

01:33:42 [AaronSw]

<jeremiah> because this girl had sex with this guy, and told me that he had a small dick,a nd somehow it got back to him, but I didn't tell him she said it

01:34:05 [sbp]

lol!

01:34:09 [sbp]

did you see that guy who came in asking for cracking hints? it's wasn't too long ago - it's all in the logs

01:34:11 [sbp]

yeah, I remember that

01:34:15 [sbp]

it was bizzare - we were just chatting about the Plex, and then he comes out with that. I was rather amused

01:34:22 [AaronSw]

yeah, i saw that.

01:34:28 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:34:30 [AaronSw]

<jeremiah> well I do work for the DOD

01:34:42 [sbp]

yep, thassit

01:35:08 [sbp]

another welcome addition to the channel

01:35:44 [thc]

I do love cultural diversity :o)

01:35:47 [AaronSw]

yeah, i figure with him and tav here i'll get the cultural background equivalent of high school.

01:35:51 [sbp]

yeah, I like it when the hacker d00dz show up. As long as they don't stay too long, it's quite comical

01:35:57 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:36:02 [sbp]

poor you

01:41:56 [sbp]

lol!

01:41:57 [sbp]

[[[

01:41:58 [sbp]

Lowtax - Oh, here it is. Okay, here are the instructions: you have to type that command I sent you before and send it. Then, within 5 seconds of it sending, you have to hit ALT-F4. That sends some SYSEX message to the computer here and it will reboot.

01:41:59 [sbp]

[...]

01:42:09 [sbp]

(StaceY went offline)

01:42:14 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.somethingawful.com/spam/icq/netappliance/index-04.htm

01:42:37 [sbp]

that's an absolutely wonderful transcript

01:44:53 [tomc]

tomc has quit (Connection timed out)

01:45:54 [thc]

thc is now known as tomc

01:47:42 [tomc]

hehe

01:49:05 [AaronSw]

lol!

01:52:44 [tomc]

cruelty to stupid people isn't really excusable though :o)

01:55:29 [tomc]

s/stupid/knowledge deprived/

01:56:01 [sbp]

no...

01:56:08 [AaronSw]

they were spammers

01:56:16 [sbp]

exactly

01:57:13 [sbp]

she tried to spam him, and he wreaked his Vengeance

01:57:18 [tomc]

Oh. :o) fine fine I think.

01:57:51 [sbp]

* sbp is currently reading through http://www.somethingawful.com/spam/icq/anointed/

01:57:59 [sbp]

that one's a little bit sad, actually

01:58:31 [tomc]

As am I, I'll read it.

02:03:07 [wmf]

wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack

02:03:16 [sbp]

that guy is pretty good with his slang

02:03:18 [sbp]

Hi Wes

02:03:22 [wmf]

howdy

02:04:08 [AaronSw]

hey wes

02:09:52 [wmf]

what's up in the swUniverse?

02:09:54 [AaronSw]

Chris: "I should be worried about my health, but trivial things like that no longer concern me."

02:10:01 [AaronSw]

- http://radio.weblogs.com/0102312/2002/01/25.html#a5

02:10:10 [wmf]

you can feel the love

02:10:56 [AaronSw]

hmm... i can't think of much that is up

02:11:06 [AaronSw]

I got PyChord working... gonna integrate it with EGTP soon.

02:11:12 [wmf]

so I've heard

02:11:40 [AaronSw]

oh. from who?

02:11:50 [wmf]

zooko

02:12:04 [wmf]

I'm on the OmniUpgradeTreadmill

02:12:12 [AaronSw]

oh?

02:12:24 [AaronSw]

more sneakypeeking

02:12:25 [AaronSw]

?

02:12:34 [wmf]

I was using omniweb 4.1sp24 and it kept bugging me to upgrade to sp28

02:12:48 [wmf]

so I did and then it immediately told me to upgrade to sp32

02:12:54 [AaronSw]

heh heh

02:13:01 [AaronSw]

Dave: "there will come a day when free hosting at UserLand is a thing of the past."

02:13:13 [wmf]

he's been saying that forever

02:13:20 [AaronSw]

yeah, i've noticed.

02:13:27 [wmf]

so I'm not sure what the point of the intermediate upgrade was

02:13:39 [AaronSw]

maybe they upgraded the upgrade notification?

02:13:42 [wmf]

and these new leakypeeks have no release notes

02:14:02 [AaronSw]

If they had releasenotes it wouldn't be very sneaky/leaky, now would it?

02:14:13 [wmf]

they did switch to some kind of mirror site (which is slower than the regular site)

02:15:01 [wmf]

I just hope userland doesn't try to switch everyone to Radio

02:15:51 [AaronSw]

heh, that'd be interesting.

02:16:15 [AaronSw]

If Dave wants to eliminate free hosting, why did he just start hosting 4 zillion more sites.

02:16:34 [wmf]

the radio sites are only free for a month

02:16:44 [AaronSw]

oh? what happens afterward?

02:16:56 [wmf]

good question

02:17:17 [AaronSw]

i hope he lets me redirect

02:17:30 [AaronSw]

but what are the chances of that?

02:17:35 [wmf]

get in your feature request now

02:17:41 [AaronSw]

i wonder if I can get Radio to upstream a .htaccess file somehow

02:18:34 [wmf]

there's a way to change extensions on files

02:18:55 [AaronSw]

it'd probably be easiest to just hack the code inside.

02:19:09 [AaronSw]

or use a python xmlStorageSystem client

02:19:15 [wmf]

so where is that Dave quote from?

02:19:22 [AaronSw]

scripting.com earlier today

02:19:31 [wmf]

I don't see it now

02:19:36 [AaronSw]

He must have deleted it.

02:19:41 [AaronSw]

It was in my Radio news.

02:19:57 [sbp]

now it's archived for eternity in #swhack! Mwahahaha!

02:20:23 [sbp]

sorry... got a bit carried away, there. Please, do continue

02:24:41 [AaronSw]

I wonder if Morbus supports this: http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2002/1/25/214359/663

02:29:08 [AaronSw]

argh, I hate it when Terminal quits.

02:30:00 [AaronSw]

Hmm, isntead of calling stuff Foo.app I think I'll call them iFoo. iTerminal, iPreview, iMail.

02:30:15 [wmf]

wmf is now known as iWMF

02:30:43 [AaronSw]

heh heh.

02:30:51 [iWMF]

(note: I am not available for free download from Apple's Web site)

02:30:54 [AaronSw]

AaronSw is now known as iHackThePlanet

02:30:55 [sbp]

lol

02:31:00 [iWMF]

heh

02:31:04 [iHackThePlanet]

Available for an exta $20 charge

02:31:04 [iWMF]

iWMF is now known as wmf

02:31:33 [iHackThePlanet]

Would you like to continue: [No | Yes, after paying $20 | Maybe not]

02:31:37 [sbp]

iAaron: more funky looking than the iLamp, and three times brighter

02:31:47 [iHackThePlanet]

iHackThePlanet is now known as AaronSw

02:32:01 [AaronSw]

Don't hack computers.

02:32:13 [AaronSw]

No haquer los computadoras

02:32:17 [AaronSw]

Ý™€ß¬¬¶€¥™¨¨¨šß

02:32:29 [AaronSw]

- sticker on the iHackThePlanet

02:32:51 [wmf]

LOL!

02:33:03 [sbp]

heh

02:33:06 [wmf]

"Hacking is a social problem"

02:33:12 [sbp]

and that ALCU story is quite funny, too

02:33:27 [AaronSw]

Steve: "We didn't feel hacking-protection was necessary in Mac OS X."

02:33:55 [sbp]

heh, he

02:34:13 [sbp]

and hey, append another "h" if you like

02:34:37 [AaronSw]

heh, i should send http://www.apple.com/ihacktheplanet/ as an HTP referer.

02:34:52 [AaronSw]

i don't want to miss out on the fun

02:34:59 [wmf]

* wmf grumbles

02:35:40 [AaronSw]

Heh, new iCon in 10.2: http://www.apple.com/errors/images/hotnews01162002.gif

02:38:32 [AaronSw]

I wonder what this guy was after: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=britany+hack+page&btnG=Google+Search

02:50:42 [DoidM]

DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-155-157.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack

02:50:59 [AaronSw]

whoa, it's doid!

02:51:05 [AaronSw]

What's the M for?

02:51:13 [DoidM]

Um, I forgot

02:51:23 [DoidM]

Could've been masterbating

02:51:45 [DoidM]

err. Won't repeat

02:51:56 [AaronSw]

hm?

02:52:03 [AaronSw]

This channel is logged live to the Web, BTW. ;-)

02:52:07 [DoidM]

I know

02:52:20 [DoidM]

so sorry for the misspelling ;)

02:52:36 [AaronSw]

So how was your meeting with, um, TavA?

02:52:48 [DoidM]

Very interesting

02:53:11 [DoidM]

I'm not sure what was covered that isn't public knowlegdearound here

02:53:28 [DoidM]

But he spoke a bot about the Omni framework

02:53:44 [wmf]

heh

02:54:01 [DoidM]

As I understand it, an application layer over the mesh

02:54:05 [AaronSw]

not the OmniFramework.

02:54:11 [DoidM]

Yes

02:54:11 [AaronSw]

totally different, wm

02:54:31 [DoidM]

Hmm. OmniFramework is something else?

02:54:37 [AaronSw]

tav's been quiet on omni

02:54:44 [wmf]

all I ask is credit for the name

02:54:53 [AaronSw]

OmniFramework is something by the Omni Group, makers of fine software for OS X

02:54:58 [AaronSw]

wmf, oh the name was your fault?

02:55:08 [AaronSw]

tav never mentioned that

02:55:11 [DoidM]

Oh, didn't know that (not having a Mac yet)

02:55:12 [wmf]

and maybe a guaranteed pension from the Tav World Order :-)

02:55:36 [DoidM]

Would be nice

02:56:02 [AaronSw]

bbiab, time to make a Borders book.

02:56:14 [AaronSw]

err trip

02:56:21 [wmf]

there was a brainstorming session (on #infoanarchy IIRC) and I suggested "Omni" as the name

02:56:34 [DoidM]

Ah.

02:56:35 [wmf]

your Borders must be open late

02:56:39 [AaronSw]

I'm worried about the perpetual confusion with the other omni

02:56:52 [AaronSw]

hm, 2 minutes...

02:57:04 [AaronSw]

ah, it's open until 11 on saturdays

02:57:22 [tav]

i believe, as wmf(?) pointed out, no-one outside the mac community knows about omni

02:57:24 [wmf]

awesome

02:57:36 [DoidM]

Heya, tav

02:57:38 [AaronSw]

so, eventually everyone will be using Macs, right?

02:57:42 [AaronSw]

;-)

02:57:44 [wmf]

I need to move to north austin so I'll be close to broders

02:57:45 [DoidM]

Hehe

02:57:54 [wmf]

5 down, 95 to go

02:57:54 [DoidM]

I'm going to love it, I know

02:58:17 [DoidM]

Aaron: do you use command line a lot on your Mac?

02:58:20 [AaronSw]

I bett we'll have 6 by the end of the year

02:58:24 [AaronSw]

DoidM, yeah, quite a bit

02:58:25 [tav]

'lo doid

02:58:36 [DoidM]

Morning

02:58:46 [tav]

heh, morning indeed

02:58:50 [tav]

.time

02:58:50 [xena]

2002/01/27 03:00:28.9049 Universal

02:58:51 [AaronSw]

.time

02:58:51 [xena]

2002/01/27 03:00:29.7933 Universal

02:59:04 [DoidM]

Xena is so cool

02:59:11 [AaronSw]

ok, bbl. talk about omni while i'm gone ;)

02:59:24 [tav]

DoidM: have that write up for me? ;p

02:59:38 [wmf]

tav: you didn't even notice me dissing you on #infoAnarchy a few minutes ago

02:59:55 [DoidM]

I've transferred some notes to pc, shall I cut 'n' paste or come up with something more meaningful?

02:59:58 [tav]

oh?

03:00:13 [DoidM]

The Omni framework is a modular application layer over the mesh (or

03:00:14 [DoidM]

routing) layer of the Plex. This application layer is a set of high level

03:00:14 [DoidM]

objects which provide,interfaces to the data in the Plex (mesh?).

03:00:24 [tav]

gah

03:00:32 [tav]

not to a public channel pls

03:00:35 [DoidM]

Sorry

03:00:43 [tav]

irc.espnow.com / #espians

03:00:49 [DoidM]

Eek

03:01:05 [wmf]

DoidM: you're being sucked into the esp...

03:01:27 [sbp]

once you get past the inner event horizon, you're done for

03:01:43 [DoidM]

I've been getting that feeling recently

03:01:46 [sbp]

sucked into the singularity! beware!

03:02:34 [tav]

/join #espians

03:20:10 [tomc]

tomc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

03:25:51 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Excess Flood)

03:26:57 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack

03:33:35 [hazmat]

hazmat has left #swhack

03:49:45 [AaronSw]

back

03:49:56 [sbp]

wb

03:51:18 [wmf]

every time I upgrade omniweb, OS X thinks my default browser is IE

03:52:55 [AaronSw]

hmm

03:53:35 [wmf]

news.com is selling content

03:53:48 [wmf]

I guess having 6 ads per page wasn't enough

03:54:44 [AaronSw]

lol

03:54:52 [AaronSw]

I noticed the other day they own com.com

03:54:58 [wmf]

lame

03:56:10 [AaronSw]

so now you can surf news.com.com

03:58:11 [AaronSw]

I'm sure some folks will buy up "Britney Spears is Dead!" stories real fast.

04:11:47 [AaronSw]

hmm, not sure omni is such a good idea. 1) building application frameworks doesn't seem like ESP's core competency. 2) to do it decently you're going to need to rewrite the whole system of computing. 3) that's expensive, for limited gain.

04:13:00 [wmf]

ah, wisdom

04:15:43 [DoidM]

Aaron: I agree to an extent. tav convinced me (and he is convincing) that that would be easier given the platform being adopted

04:15:56 [AaronSw]

what would be easier?

04:16:21 [DoidM]

I can't for the life of me find a previous attempt I read about ages ago. Alphablox?

04:17:24 [wmf]

heh, the DJ on the radio is having the same problem I sometimes do. he's getting shocked every time he touches something metal

04:17:38 [AaronSw]

heh, that destroyed my touchpad for a while

04:17:45 [AaronSw]

had to start the humidifier running

04:18:30 [wmf]

I think my power jack on my pismo is going bad

04:18:48 [DoidM]

I'm earthing everything!

04:19:14 [AaronSw]

What happened to me is I messed up the cord on my Yoyo

04:19:53 [AaronSw]

but i think the newer yoyos fixed that problem by reinforcing it

04:58:01 [DoidM]

Aaron: Sorry, easier meaning easier than I thought it would be - I wasn't considering an alternative approach

05:01:43 [AaronSw]

hmm, anyone have a good explanation of FEC?

05:02:16 [AaronSw]

i read orasis' oreillynet interview

05:02:21 [tav]

stop spying through xena you bitch

05:12:25 [DoidM]

DoidM is now known as DoidT

05:18:28 [sbp]

* sbp waves

05:19:52 [DoidT]

sbp: I read you swintro for about the third time

05:24:57 [sbp]

great. How did you find it?

05:25:01 [sbp]

is it starting to sink in a bit? :-)

05:25:52 [DoidT]

slowly - anything that might be a potential solution to my reading problem is attractive ;)

05:27:01 [sbp]

reading problem? I dunno if it can solve reading problems, but it's good for insomnia

05:27:32 [DoidT]

I guess I don't understand how RDF isn't hierarchical

05:29:18 [sbp]

well, class and property hierarchies are... but there are no real constraints anywhere - anything can link to anything else. I mean, there's no centralization - no one saying "you must use the term 'title' whenever you have a title for something"

05:29:32 [sbp]

and class hierarchies can be cyclic

05:30:10 [sbp]

imagine browsing through folder :a to folder :b to folder :c, and then finding folder :a there again

05:30:31 [DoidT]

thanks

05:32:10 [sbp]

Hmm... really, the Web is based upon a hierarchial structure: people still think of /blargh/ components in URIs as being directories; but the difference is that you can link anything to anything else. RDF adds making the link typed, instead of just having the plain link

05:32:38 [DoidT]

typed as what, just for example

05:33:46 [DoidT]

I still think of components of URI's as directories

05:35:21 [sbp]

:Sean :likes :Swhack; :dislikes :School . # likes and dislikes are the types of the links. In hypertext, all you can do is put a bit of link text there... it's not particularly automated. So, RDF is geared up towards storing data. But there's a fuzzy line between data and documentation - so you get people screen scraping data out of documents, and so forth

05:36:06 [sbp]

so the "types" of the links are just the properties - the predicates in the triple. Always the thing in the middle (you've probably been through all that though, especially if you've read swintro 3 times!)

05:37:19 [DoidT]

Aha. As a matter of historical interest, for how long have there been triples?

05:38:33 [sbp]

Um... in RDF, or just in general? They're only binary relationships - RDF is derived from a substantial amount of past work

05:39:15 [sbp]

I'm not too sure why DRF adopted that model, although I guess it's because anything can be expressed that way - although it is expensive for encoding >2-ary relationships

05:39:22 [sbp]

s/DRF/RDF/

05:39:23 [DoidT]

In RDF, I meant. The way my Tortoise pace logic is taking me, is that the property adds another dimension

05:50:06 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw and Ben play a bit of Ogres vs. Pixies

05:50:17 [AaronSw]

cf. http://www.zooko.com/

05:50:51 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wanders off

05:57:38 [DoidT]

.time

05:57:39 [xena]

2002/01/27 05:59:17.3263 Universal

05:58:24 [deltab]

deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)

05:58:32 [DoidT]

DoidT is now known as Doid

05:58:46 [Doid]

Doid is now known as Doid-reading

06:00:43 [deltab]

deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack

06:08:48 [sbp]

heh, that Lowtax is rather funny

06:11:11 [sbp]

although WTF is it with him and his pusher bot? He has something going down, there, I reckon :-)

06:14:22 [AaronSw]

I guess I should probably disappear now.

06:19:09 [Doid-reading]

Doid-reading is now known as DoidT

06:19:15 [AaronSw]

T?

06:19:22 [DoidT]

Tortoise

06:19:27 [DoidT]

btw, anyone want to chat about KnowNow somewhere?

06:20:05 [AaronSw]

i wouldn't mind... but i should probably go to sleep

06:20:22 [DoidT]

Always good if you want to

06:20:33 [DoidT]

Maybe tomorrow

06:20:39 [AaronSw]

ok

06:21:59 [AaronSw]

nite all

06:22:19 [DoidT]

.time

06:22:19 [xena]

2002/01/27 06:23:57.6039 Universal

06:22:30 [DoidT]

g'nite

06:23:38 [wmf]

wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason")

06:29:33 [sbp]

Gotta run

07:19:56 [DoidT]

DoidT has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

07:29:21 [tav]

heh

07:29:29 [tav]

morning comes and they gotto sleep

10:52:23 [Lion7]

Lion7 (~AZERTY@ALimoges-101-1-2-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack

10:52:42 [Lion7]

hmm it's so KwEl talking by yourself erf=)

10:53:25 [Lion7]

Lion7 has quit (Client Quit)

15:03:16 [tomc]

tomc (~lambda@modem-1162.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack

15:48:57 [AaronSw]

heh, someone cracked the Free Software Magazine site.

15:49:04 [AaronSw]

they put up an article about VIM: http://www.rons.net.cn/english/FSM/vim

15:49:04 [tomc]

tomc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

17:48:35 [sbp]

2001-03-21 23:46:53-ish: first time I used <sbp> as a nick

17:49:04 [sbp]

er... 23:46:49, to be exact

17:49:06 [AaronSw]

I've come to like sbp. I know I originally preferred SeanP.

17:49:16 [sbp]

yeah, everybody preferred it

17:49:28 [sbp]

edd and DanBri were also against the change

17:49:46 [sbp]

* sbp realises the time

17:49:50 [sbp]

sorry, gotta run

17:50:24 [AaronSw]

.time

17:50:25 [xena]

2002/01/27 17:52:03.37834 Universal

17:52:33 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw goes thru and copiously comments source

17:53:00 [AaronSw]

I dunno how useful it will be to others but it really helped me understand things better. I also found a bug or two

18:05:33 [AaronSw]

new revision: 1.8; previous revision: 1.7

18:05:57 [AaronSw]

Ok, off to lunch and then a piano concert at orchestra hall

19:00:49 [sbp]

* sbp goes through the PyChord code comments

20:43:23 [CygBot]

CygBot (~sbp@m425-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

20:43:36 [sbp]

$ wc tools/eep.py

20:43:42 [CygBot]

> 144 630 5457 tools/eep.py

20:43:43 [CygBot]

> [end]

20:43:50 [CygBot]

CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

20:44:15 [sbp]

ugh, it's much longer than the Plex RDF API already

20:45:55 [sbp]

for comparsion:-

20:45:56 [sbp]

$ lynx http://cvs.plexdev.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/plex/plex/plexrdf/rdfapi.py\?rev=1.6\&content-type=text/plain -source -dump | wc

20:45:57 [sbp]

109 439 3582

20:48:56 [sbp]

Eep has turned into bloatware!

20:51:26 [sbp]

then again, half of Eep is the RDF XML serializer...

21:25:11 [jeremiah]

* jeremiah is back (gone 26:02:13)

21:59:51 [sbp]

* sbp waves to Jeremiah

22:01:18 [jeremiah]

hey sbp

22:01:20 [jeremiah]

* jeremiah is away: dinner

22:04:58 [sbp]

* sbp splits the sink into another module, and brings eep.py down to 100 lines

22:10:09 [sbp]

* sbp listens to "Matty Groves", Fairport Convention

22:23:15 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. Quick reroute of some European leaf servers. Please bear with us.

22:23:22 [deltab]

deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)

22:24:15 [deltab]

deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack

23:35:59 [jeremiah]

* jeremiah is away: movie

23:37:21 [sbp]

* sbp didn't know he was back

23:37:30 [jeremiah]

I wasn't

23:37:30 [jeremiah]

hehe

23:37:33 [jeremiah]

now I am really gonna leave

23:37:34 [jeremiah]

and such

23:37:47 [sbp]

cool. c'ya :-)

23:37:58 [sbp]

have fun at the cinema

23:42:40 [jeremiah]

thanks

23:42:54 [jeremiah]

(this is one of those walk back and forth between doorway and computer things)