00:00:30 hey rillian 00:00:44 we're playing with this new p2p network: http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~pfh/circle/ 00:00:46 very cool 00:01:17 gotta run -- dinner 00:01:59 * rillian waves 00:02:06 * sbp waves 00:03:33 argh:- 00:03:34 [[[ 00:03:34 Traceback (most recent call last): 00:03:34 File "circle", line 3, in ? 00:03:34 import sys, circlelib.circle 00:03:34 File "circlelib/circle.py", line 53, in ? 00:03:35 import os,sys,threading,time,traceback,md5,whrandom,re,string,math,types,imp,socket,signal 00:03:37 File "/usr/lib/python2.2/threading.py", line 5, in ? 00:03:39 import thread 00:03:41 ImportError: No module named thread 00:03:43 ]]] 00:03:46 yeah, it's linux-only, i think 00:03:51 cygwin doesn't have... 00:04:15 's a compile option, isn't it? 00:04:23 Aaron, shouldn't you be eating dinner? tav, shouldn't you be shutting up? :-) 00:04:25 was in the old pythons, anyway 00:04:31 shutting up? 00:04:50 you and your damn tales of CygWin Python doom :-) 00:04:54 heh 00:11:29 dircproxy is quite funny when it reconnects 00:11:46 Hmm... 00:11:47 [[[ 00:11:47 File "C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON22\lib\xml\dom\pulldom.py", line 97, in startElementNS 00:11:47 prefix = self._current_context[a_uri] 00:11:47 KeyError: http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace 00:11:48 ]]] 00:14:20 * sbp tries to fix it 00:17:41 * sbp fixes it 00:17:42 [[[ 00:17:43 elif a_uri: 00:17:43 try: prefix = self._current_context[a_uri] 00:17:43 except KeyError: prefix = None 00:17:44 ]]] 00:25:23 what's so funny about dirc reconnecting? 00:25:39 the windows go a bit nuts 00:50:33 Heh, funny, as I reconnect with dircproxy, I see "what's so funny about dirc reconnecting" 00:50:58 heh, heh, heh 00:52:04 So in my brief research today I think I understand the statement: "RDF can describe anything" 00:54:10 good, good 00:54:55 Now I just have to do something with it.. but I think I get why Plex is a Good Idea now. 00:55:28 also good :-) 00:55:42 do you have any questions about RDF/Semantic Web/Plex? 00:56:49 Not quite yet. I *think* I get it, I'll know if I try doing something with it 00:57:18 Got a bit more reading for that, find some more sample things to run and poke at. 00:58:01 I'm actually working on quite a bit of RDF processing junk right now 00:58:04 Oh, btw: It looks like Blogspace is an uber-wiki. Not released for general use though? 00:58:08 I'm just running some tests 00:58:22 Oh, and I think I "get" the rdfwiki now too 00:58:34 Blogspace has been released, but it's in some weird proprietary format. Aaron has been planning a PyBlogspace 00:58:48 neat 00:58:55 do you have Python installed? 00:59:03 er... of course you do... 00:59:04 Weird proprietary format? Didn't Aaron write it? 00:59:07 Yup, I have python 00:59:13 do you want to try out the stuff I'm working on now? 00:59:16 Aaron: yeah 00:59:21 but he used an Oracle database 00:59:26 and probably Tcl 00:59:46 Oh, okay, was it on an AOLServer or something 01:00:17 Sure, I'll play with what you have. 01:02:15 [off-log mumblings] 01:03:01 get accesstool.py, earlapi.py, eep.py, rdf.py, toolbox.py 01:03:16 accesstool.py is a kind of demonstration of the whole lot 01:03:53 the current built in test retrives www.w3.org, parses it for XML validity, serializes the result as EARL (which is an RDF language), and then extracts a report from the EARL 01:04:04 the result:- 01:04:04 $ python22 accesstool.py 01:04:04 of "2002-01-23T00:57:58Z" passes "Test for XML well-formedness" 01:04:26 by fiddling it slightly, you can get it to display the EARL, make it do weird things with the EARL, or whatever 01:04:41 there's also a function that checks whether or not a page has decent Alt Tags 01:04:51 well, it's a class, a parser 01:05:02 they're both in accesstool.py 01:05:07 Ack, be back in a lil bit. But I grabbed the files & am logging 01:05:14 earlapi.py is the stuff that does the general EARL munging 01:05:17 O.K., c'ya 01:05:22 * sbp will keep ranting 01:05:31 Hmm... I should get CygBot in here :-) 01:05:49 CygBot (~sbp@m6-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:54 welcome, CygBot 01:06:38 $quit 01:06:42 $ die 01:06:44 $ quit 01:06:46 Command "die" has been disabled 01:06:46 die! 01:06:47 Command "quit" has been disabled 01:06:59 * sbp should get it to ignore tav 01:09:11 7$python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:09:47 cool, I seem to have crashed it 01:10:03 $ pwd 01:10:11 > /home 01:10:12 > [end] 01:10:20 Hmm... 01:10:27 $python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:10:35 oh, no space heh, heh 01:10:41 7$ python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:10:46 > python22: not found 01:10:46 > [end] 01:10:53 Grgprmpgmrpgmpgmgh 01:11:10 aliases are bash-only, aren't they? crud 01:11:31 7$ "C:/Program\ Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:11:35 > C:/Program\ Files/Python22/Python.exe: not found 01:11:35 > [end] 01:11:44 ugh 01:11:48 7$ "C:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:11:56 > File "", line 1, in ? 01:11:57 > File "tools\accesstool.py", line 91, in doXMLTest 01:11:58 > Validity = checkXML(urlopen(uri).read()) 01:11:59 > File "tools\accesstool.py", line 57, in checkXML 01:12:00 > xml.dom.minidom.parseString(s) 01:12:01 > File "C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON22\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 965, in parseString 01:12:02 > [...] 01:12:05 heh, heh 01:13:19 ah, that's from when I was debugging minidom 01:13:53 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:26:09 logster (~swhack-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 01:26:09 Users on #swhack: logster 01:27:06 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 *** Notice -- TS for #swhack changed from 1011749259 to 1011748844 01:35:39 CygBot (~sbp@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:36:09 SeanP (~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:36:29 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 01:36:33 SeanP is now known as sbp 01:36:37 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 01:36:49 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:37:22 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 01:37:39 sbp (~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:37:59 sbp- (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:38:28 heh, heh 01:38:30 7$ python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:38:31 > python22: not found 01:38:31 > [end] 01:38:49 7$ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:38:54 > . 01:38:55 > . 01:38:56 > "accesstool.py" . 01:38:57 > _:wvirbwsl _:olpkjsoh . 01:38:58 > _:wvirbwsl . 01:38:59 > _:wvirbwsl _:mlfrubka . 01:39:00 > [...] 01:39:05 hooray! 01:39:11 but no logs :-) 01:39:16 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 01:40:35 sbp- is now known as sbp 01:41:00 now we're getting somewhere 01:41:17 [Global Notice] Hi all. We've had a failure and are currently restoring servers. 01:42:32 * sbp waves to logster 01:48:45 * sbp enjoys the fun on #openprojects 01:50:58 tansaku3 (~sam@n146-207.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:52:57 * rillian just finds it depressing 01:55:00 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m30-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:57:30 SeanP (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:57:40 SeanP is now known as sbp 02:03:16 [Global Notice] Hi all. Just to recap, we've had a catastrophic network failure we are still analyzing. Now would be a good time for you to consider helping the project, especially if you code in C, know who Stevens is and are comfortable with sockets coding. Our current server code is up on http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/dancer/dancer-ircd/1.0/releases/dancer-ircd-1.0.31.tar.gz . Thanks. 02:04:08 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" /home/tools/accesstool.py 02:04:21 argh, it's not here 02:05:04 CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m984-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:05:14 CygBot (~sbp@m984-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:05:15 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" /home/tools/accesstool.py 02:05:20 > c:\Program Files\Python22\Python.exe: can't open file '/home/tools/accesstool.py' 02:05:20 > [end] 02:05:28 oh, of course... 02:06:10 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool as x; x.test()" 02:06:21 > of "2002-01-23T02:07:01Z" passes "Test for XML well-formedness" 02:06:21 > [end] 02:07:10 test() is:- 02:07:10 import earlapi as e 02:07:11 print e.EARLQuickParser(doXMLTest('http://www.w3.org/')).evaluationDetails() 02:07:36 EARL Quick Parser takes the standard Eep RDF API store, and parses that 02:11:27 there's also an EARLExpatParser class in earlapi, but that is meant to parse canonical XML RDF EARL... it doesn't do a very good job 02:17:14 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 02:22:02 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:30:03 Hmm, lilo sounds pretty desperate. 02:31:10 what happened? 02:31:56 i wonder what happened asuffield. 02:32:34 ^to 02:35:41 asuffield? 02:36:09 * sbp gets XML RDF output working 02:37:13 7$ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool, tools.earlapi, tools.eep; print tools.eep.serializeXML(tools.eep.parse(tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.w3.org/')))" 02:37:23 > 02:37:24 > > rdf:resource="anon:_htkbncfn"/> 02:37:26 > 02:37:27 > 02:37:28 > > [...] 02:37:41 that's one big command line... 02:38:54 * sbp adds nt2xmlrdf() 02:40:01 ugh, it stripped the "#" off of the namespace 02:44:34 tav has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 CygBot has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 sbp has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:49 [Global Notice] Hi all. If you are interested in playing with dancer, suggest you stop by #mistertoad about now....and the source code is on http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/dancer/dancer-ircd/1.0/releases/dancer-ircd-1.0.31.tar.gz , grab a copy and start looking. Thanks. 02:45:40 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 CygBot (~sbp@m984-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:45:47 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 02:48:39 asuffield was the lead coder on dancer, i understand 02:53:30 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:58:40 * AaronSw gets another CFP brochure in the mail.... stop tempting me! 02:58:44 ooh, it's a calendar with important privacy landmarks on it 02:58:52 the anniversary of the first Mac will be on thursday 02:59:32 AaronSw has changed the topic to: And the nodes on the network go round and round, round and round, round and round... 03:21:05 * sbp has beefed up his summary thing:- 03:21:06 of 2002-01-23T03:21:05Z passes "Well-Formedness TestCase" (Test for XML well-formedness) 03:21:06 of 2002-01-23T03:21:12Z passes "Decent-Alttags TestCase" (Test for all alt attrs. in document: no/empty ones => fail) 03:21:28 * sbp is rather pleased 03:27:41 alt *attributes* 03:27:53 why fail on empty alt attributes? 03:44:13 projectbuilder can't edit makefiles 03:47:08 attrs: "Test for all alt attrs." 03:47:14 I know: "Alttags" 03:47:20 I just can't help myself... 03:47:29 why fail on empty alt attributes: because I'm a hard-ass 03:48:17 for the world view of this particular test, all images have a non-whitespace lexical alternative 03:48:58 and whilst that's probably not true, it is in this test 03:49:16 What will be interesting is when this test gets merged with later tests against test points that aren't so strict :-) 03:56:24 tansaku3 is now known as tansaku 04:15:51 CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:16:18 CygBot (~sbp@m464-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:16:48 7$ python tools/hashing.py 04:16:58 > _:ocvdhgyw "2002-01-23T04:17:39Z" . 04:16:59 > _:ocvdhgyw "71483864ffab407482537ae310cab602" . 04:17:00 > _:ocvdhgyw "698ee44faa1bdb5ba9f052894d392477" . 04:17:01 > _:ocvdhgyw "d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e" . 04:17:02 > _:ocvdhgyw "e593e64fd30ff3b51f5c3d6c39bb23a8" . 04:17:03 > _:ocvdhgyw "3f450905809b91ae404852562421aa35" . 04:17:05 > [...] 04:17:20 Hmm... CygBot keeps stripping the first line 04:18:02 e 04:18:05 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:18:10 CygBot (~sbp@m464-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:18:21 3$ python tools/hashing.py 04:18:31 > _:abkbufbn . 04:18:32 > _:abkbufbn "2002-01-23T04:19:12Z" . 04:18:32 > _:abkbufbn "71483864ffab407482537ae310cab602" . 04:18:32 > [...] 04:18:38 there we go 04:22:55 * AaronSw um, discusses with the circle guys 04:23:06 not good? 04:23:38 they don't seem to believe in genericity 04:24:04 meaning... 04:25:30 like, instead of building the Web, these guys seem to want to build a phone directory network, and a news-sharing network, etc. 04:25:47 wonderfully exciting 04:26:14 one of the first applications of the Web was the CERN phone book 04:26:26 [you know that] 04:27:26 what I mean is: :PhoneAndNewsNetworks rdfs:subClassOf :Web . 04:27:26 tha's why i used that example 04:27:43 cool 04:27:59 right. so we have a hard time selling them on the Plex (analogous to the Web) because all they want is a phone directory. 04:28:35 but we show them that the Plex can do what they want it for, and everyone's happy 04:28:49 well, you show them 04:29:53 well... not really, since they want to build the phone directory and not the plex, and we were sort of counting on them to build things for us ;-) 04:32:21 well, they must be adding some level of genericity to the code; i.e. something surely must be salvagable 04:32:27 yes, indeed. 04:32:46 just not as much as you had hoped, eh? :-) 04:32:46 i think we just hoped for somethign more (a lead developer) and found something less (a user) 04:32:52 jinx 04:32:56 heh, heh 04:33:06 hmz 04:33:16 i reckon that i can bring pfh around 04:33:41 * sbp just ate a lovely crispy chocolate bar thingy 04:34:22 "#swhack: home of tav the miracle worker" 04:35:38 * sbp presumes that no one needs CygBot 04:35:40 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:40:11 rillian has quit ("dinner, cake") 04:40:57 cake? 04:52:56 .acronym LFTC 04:53:04 xena? 04:54:05 obviously not 05:09:01 nite all. c'ya later 05:14:46 c'ya 06:48:13 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 09:12:06 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:16:44 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:16:50 sbp- (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 09:17:43 sbp- is now known as sbp 10:25:15 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:01:40 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:02:07 tansaku (~sam@h132-004.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:46:41 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:55:37 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 13:45:01 -- 13:45:02 I/O, I/O, 13:45:02 It's off to disk I go, 13:45:02 A bit or byte to read or write, 13:45:02 I/O, I/O, I/O... 13:45:03 -- 14:08:19 @ http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/QuotePage 14:08:27 A: http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/QuotePage from AaronSw 14:08:41 A:|PoundPython Quote Page 14:08:42 titled item A 14:09:05 A::Part of the [PoundPython WikiWiki|http://purl.org/wiki/python/]. 14:09:06 commented item A 14:24:50 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:25:24 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:12:35 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:13:12 tansaku (~sam@n144-014.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:34:10 tansaku has quit () 17:43:34 lol @ "I/O, I/O" 17:52:48 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 17:53:03 kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 17:53:36 * sbp waves to hazmat and Ken 17:53:50 hello sbp 18:00:27 that PoundPython page is hillarious 18:00:53 kenm has quit ("Leaving") 18:02:59 sbp has quit ("Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.2") 18:03:13 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:03:13 sbp, where is that? 18:03:13 have you guys read through bruce eckel's ipc9 closing address, its fairly humorous. 18:06:10 ftp://www.mindview.net/pub/eckel/LovePython.zip 18:14:05 O.K., let's set up the perfect Google band 18:14:10 .google Greatest drummer of all time 18:14:11 Greatest drummer of all time: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/home.html&e=922 18:14:21 sbp has left #swhack 18:14:54 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:15:03 WTF happened there? 18:15:30 anyway, John Bonham at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/home.html which is not surprising 18:15:39 * sbp is listening to "When The Levee Breaks" :-) 18:15:44 .google Greatest vocalist of all time 18:15:46 Greatest vocalist of all time: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/holiday_b.html 18:15:56 Billie Holiday 18:16:03 Hmm... is that gonna work? :-) 18:16:05 anyway... 18:16:15 .google Greatest guitarist of all time 18:16:16 Greatest guitarist of all time: http://pub72.ezboard.com/frrivsplacefrm1.showMessage?topicID=837.topic 18:17:10 heh:- 18:17:11 [[[ 18:17:11 I havent got a clue...i feel like crosstown traffic. 18:17:11 My mind is in a purple haze right now. 18:17:11 Anyone feeling foxy? 18:17:12 ]]] 18:17:32 That'll be Jimi Hendrix, then, although others get mentioned 18:17:40 .google Greatest bassist of all time 18:17:41 Greatest bassist of all time: http://www.firstfoot.co.uk/good%20scottish%20pop/jackbruce.htm 18:18:21 Jack Bruce, of the Cream 18:18:34 .google Greatest songwriter of all time 18:18:35 Greatest songwriter of all time: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/threads/songwriter.htm 18:20:26 oh man, that page is so confusing 18:20:43 Well have Ellington, McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, and Gershwin :-) 18:20:50 better link to the eckel speech http://64.78.49.204/pub/eckel/LovePython.zip 18:21:19 BLURB:The Google-Assembled Super-Band 18:21:21 .google PoundPython 18:21:22 PoundPython: http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/PoundPython 18:21:23 B: The Google-Assembled Super-Band from sbp 18:21:52 B::This is an attempt to assemble a super-band using Google searches of the nature "Greatest x of all time" 18:21:53 commented item B 18:22:59 B::drummer: [http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/home.html|John Bonham] [of Led Zeppelin] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+drummer+of+all+time|search] 18:23:00 commented item B 18:23:39 B::vocalist: [http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/holiday_b.html|Billie Holiday] [famous Jazz singer] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+vocalist+of+all+time|search] 18:23:41 commented item B 18:24:36 B::guitarist: [http://pub72.ezboard.com/frrivsplacefrm1.showMessage?topicID=837.topic|Jimi Hendrix] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+guitarist+of+all+time|search]) 18:24:38 commented item B 18:25:21 B::bassist: [http://www.firstfoot.co.uk/good%20scottish%20pop/jackbruce.htm|Jack Bruce] [of the Cream] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+bassist+of+all+time|search]) 18:25:23 commented item B 18:26:21 B::songwriter: [http://www.allaboutjazz.com/threads/songwriter.htm|Ellington, McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, and Gershwin] [this page was a discussion about the world's greatest, with no clear victory] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+songwriter+of+all+time|search]) 18:26:23 commented item B 18:27:01 there was all this underwear hanging around at school today. i wonder if it was Campus Commando Day... 18:27:15 ugh, chumpster has really messed the syntax up 18:27:17 Aaron? 18:27:24 li'l help?! 18:27:36 lol! @ Campus Commando Day 18:27:37 what'd you do? 18:27:51 nothing. see the above entries. They all came out weirdly 18:27:54 http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 18:28:32 oh, right, I used "[]" in the things... it must have thought they were URIs, even though there was no | in them, and they don't fit the URI syntax 18:28:37 that's a bit silly 18:28:59 yeah, i suppose 18:33:32 also, scribbled into my desk where you normally see swears and love notes, it was all clean except for one word: "LISP" 18:34:00 where the fuck are you? 18:34:18 err, that was at school too 18:34:26 weird school 18:36:06 /topic LISP Underwear 18:38:27 so i was visited by the Twisted Python folks this morning 18:41:51 they've been telling me that other people's code sucks, and i should use theirs. but they're big into metapython 18:51:48 .google "Twisted Python" 18:51:49 "Twisted Python": http://twistedmatrix.com 18:52:01 visited as in "came to your house", or what? 18:52:20 no, just my irc client 18:52:58 they want to take over the world too, it seems 18:53:10 we need to create more worlds for all these world takeover folks. 18:53:17 Hmm... we talked about Twisted a while ago. Or, I talked about it with somebody 18:53:23 heh, yeah 18:53:51 sbp has changed the topic to: We need to create more worlds for all these world takeover folks 18:54:05 Hmm, I wonder who you talked about it with. 18:54:18 .google sbp twisted python 18:54:18 sbp twisted python: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-11-27.txt 18:54:24 it must have been you. Who else could it have been? 18:56:04 that isn't it 18:56:44 i don't remember talking about it... 18:57:57 Patrick Stickler's latest email makes no sense to me 18:58:31 URI? 18:58:51 it's on URx Questions 18:59:07 he seems to say that URNs should have clear resolution and TAG doesn't need datestamps 19:08:53 oh, right 19:16:39 .google xpointer 19:16:40 xpointer: http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-xptr 19:16:50 .google xpointer tr 19:16:51 xpointer tr: http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr 19:19:08 last night we went to see Noah's band performance. they played "25 or 6 to 4" and which led to a large discussion about the significance of the title/lyrics 19:24:14 Funny, Twisted in python sounds a lot like POE in perl 19:26:26 POE? 19:29:11 Hmm... so what is the significance of the title? 19:31:56 Probably something like Perl Enterprise Objects. 19:32:05 poe.perl.org 19:32:17 its pretty cool. 19:32:31 whoo! blanu helped me find the bug in my chord code 19:32:46 ah. "POE is a framework for creating multitasking programs in Perl." 19:32:49 morbus was on about that. 19:39:31 hmm, sounds like cooperative threading. that's not that interesting, is it? 19:47:52 wow, spamassasin caught 43 messages 19:48:29 * deus_x wakes back up. 19:48:49 Yeah, POE is basically cooperative threading, but it's interesting in perl because it never had it before 19:48:57 ah 19:49:10 And it's set up to be a componentized, event driven thing. 19:50:44 So, like for Morbus' AmphetaDesk, POE could have a scheduler component firing events to an RSS channel updater component, and an HTTP server that fires events to the news aggregation page generation component. 19:51:06 But in a lot of other languages, nothing new. 19:51:57 when you say "firing events" do you have a threadsafe coordination system to store this data? 19:52:01 like tuplespaces in linda 19:52:05 or *cough* the Plex 19:52:16 Hmm, not familiar with that. :( I have a lot of reading to do 19:52:42 the idea is instead of firing events, you post a notice in the town hall saying that X needs to be done, and please leave the result in the same place. 19:53:46 Oh, kind of, yes. Though it's asynchronous, so HTTP server fires an "I have a request" event, Request handler triggers on that event and does things, then it fires an "I have a response" event that the HTTP server catches. 19:54:16 right. 19:54:38 but are the events aimed at a specific module, or could i make forty aggregators and have them each work at the same time? 19:54:49 (and split up the work evenly) 19:55:27 Mostly the events are addressed, but there are broadcaster components and job queue components that launch several workers off to handle events 19:56:12 All of this being within the same literal perl thread and process, with event handlers voluntarily yielding control after a step of their work is done 19:56:28 oh, right. i forgot that. 19:56:36 cooperative multitasking sucks, as any OS 9 user knows 19:56:43 ie. A handler that loops through some data would do a step or a chunk of steps, queue up an event back to itself, and yield. 19:57:02 versions of MacOS < X were all cooperatively multitasked 19:57:03 Yeah, it sucks, but it's the best perl can do without threads. 19:57:27 Which begs the question of why to use perl, but people are nutty like that. 19:57:50 (Me being one of them, but I'm working on recovery. :) ) 19:58:23 heh 19:58:30 why doesn't perl have threads? 19:58:42 Just last night I was playing around with an AmphetaDesk++ using POE. All the while thinking I really need to do more python work 19:59:19 Perl has initial work on threads, but it's experimental. Mostly I think it's because perl is a big mess of tangled speaker wire inside, and that's why Perl 6 is a ground-up rewrite 20:00:40 ah :) 20:01:40 Wow, Visual One Time Pads are cool. 20:02:05 * deus_x googles 20:03:48 heh 20:04:06 you use us overhead transparency paper has for the ciphertext 20:04:17 Whoa.. hehe, visual encryption by halftone 20:04:39 er, halfmoons that is 20:05:44 Funny, we were just thinking of doing something like that as a product for a game 20:06:08 Only we depend on a home player to print something out that will match up with our transparency 20:19:09 neat! sounds like a fun game 20:20:56 Basically a way to try to get people to come from a web site and into a physical store. 20:22:30 Scienide (~Running@adsl-63-198-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:23:06 i think i been here before 20:23:12 Dizmo`` (~unhappy@adsl-63-198-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:23:18 hi 20:23:21 he isnt a clone 20:23:24 he just on the same gate 20:23:46 ur in the wrong chan 20:23:47 lol 20:23:50 i am? 20:23:54 oh okies 20:24:11 Dizmo`` is now known as Dizmo 20:24:13 this isn't the channel you're looking for. [waves hand] 20:24:20 okies 20:24:25 would you like us to leave? 20:24:34 what are you here for? 20:24:46 nothing 20:24:50 its new to this server 20:24:52 oh, then you can stay 20:24:53 well 20:24:54 we are 20:25:00 i just have to reconnect 20:25:02 ill brb 20:25:06 Scienide has quit ("Local Kill by eddr") 20:25:12 er.. O.K. 20:25:34 Scienide (Running@modem-3758.lemur.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 20:25:39 wb 20:25:52 interesting new feature for this server, eh, sbp? 20:25:53 BWT, this channel is instantly and persistently archived to the Web 20:26:01 new feature: why? 20:26:04 er... what? 20:26:11 hellos 20:26:19 getting visits like these. 20:26:24 he says they're new to this network. 20:26:49 Hmm... yes 20:27:02 cool, they made my article all purty. 20:28:10 you can buy your copy of the magazine for only...[checks]...$17! what a steal 20:28:22 i'm on page 2, apparently... 20:28:51 not too shabby 20:28:58 probably just a placeholder 20:29:10 on the other hand i could be the cover story ;-) 20:30:05 hmm, looks like pages 2-3 are reserved for "From the Editor in Chief" 20:30:13 Scienide has left #swhack 20:31:50 Dizmo has left #swhack 20:34:20 ooh, Norm Walsh on RDF IG 20:35:18 what's his nick? 20:35:34 mailing list 20:35:42 oh 20:35:44 pfft 20:35:48 :-) 20:38:17 twisted seems cool 20:38:41 i wonder if they have a photo album thingy for it 20:38:47 heh,h eh 20:39:07 * sbp tries to figure out how to get spaces to insert themselves correctly into sentences 20:39:16 well... sentence fragments, at least 20:43:01 hey, i tried to like zope, i really did 20:43:42 perhaps I should try the dvorak configuration. OTOH, I couldn't find the setting where the set-up page said it would be 20:43:47 lol 20:44:17 i've heard that dvorak's improvement in speed is not worth the learning cost 20:44:29 you laugh, but i spent hours trying to make it work! 20:44:37 that seems to be a reasonable assumption 20:44:55 hours: I'm not surprised. Why on Earth did you try? I couldn't understand it 20:45:03 i mean, it complains that the python build it frickin came with doesn't work! 20:45:06 maybe you caught a touch of insanity from somewhere 20:45:13 heh, heh 20:45:36 hey, i was just trying to be practical: i needed photo album software, tav said this was good. 20:45:59 but zope was like: hah, now we can get back at him for making fun of us! 20:46:15 so, i'm sorry zope. it's too bad it didn't work out. 20:47:41 hmm, maybe it's because i'm using the beta. 20:48:12 * AaronSw downloads 2.4.3 20:49:43 Having trouble finding a photo album, so you want to use Zope? heh heh 20:49:58 web photo album software 20:50:13 i'm using the ACS right now, so i want to switch to something nicer (read: python) 20:50:19 Ahh, okay. 20:50:36 ok, even with 2.3.1 i get the same error 20:50:41 err 2.4.3 20:57:13 ok, so i went in and fixed it bu hand, but of course there's another thing missing too 21:11:34 heh! 21:12:15 what? 21:13:09 @ http://www.codeweavers.com/~jwhite/tunney.html 21:13:12 C: The Tunney Act, A confession of shame, and a call to action from AaronSw 21:13:43 C::Quick, tell the Justice Department about the problems with the Microsoft Settlement, ASAP. 21:13:45 commented item C 21:14:40 C::"Send it now. By the time you think to come back to this page, it will be too late." 21:14:42 commented item C 21:14:50 C::via Debian Weekly News 21:14:51 commented item C 21:18:25 C::It won't be gone if you try the [http://web.archive.org/web/20020123131928/http://www.codeweavers.com/~jwhite/tunney.html|Alexa version] 21:18:26 commented item C 21:18:40 oh well, I'm just a big idiot 21:18:46 who said it would be gone? 21:18:58 I dunno. Sorry, my mind's elsewhere at the moment 21:19:10 C::Who said it would be gone? It wll be too late to comment on the proceedings. So quick, send the DOJ a letter now. 21:19:11 commented item C 21:20:44 C::Well, you never know - M****soft might sue them for "improper use of their trademark" or something, and all sites that use the name "M****soft" in a derogatory manner might vanish from the face of the Earth. I dunno - work with me on this one 21:20:46 commented item C 21:21:21 * sbp tries fairly hard to redeem himself 21:23:41 [Information Générale] Salut à tous. Veuillez noter que ce réseau n'a pas pour but de servir de terrain d'essai "grandeur nature" pour des bots, en particuliers ceux utilisant des machines Windows piratées ... Merci. 21:24:11 huh? 21:24:44 (to lilo's comment) 21:25:15 .translate eng-fre Salut à tous. Veuillez noter que ce réseau n'a pas pour but de servir de terrain d'essai "grandeur nature" pour des bots, en particuliers ceux utilisant des machines Windows piratées ... Merci. 21:25:26 error: Site Error occurred: IndexError 21:25:53 """[ General Information ] Hello with all. Please note that the purpose of this network is not to be used as ground of test " natural size " for the club-footed ones, as private individuals those using of the Windows machines pirated... Thank you.""" 21:26:15 well, that didn't help much :-) 21:26:29 - translate.google.com 21:28:25 translate.google.com? 21:28:49 yeah, where'd you get the translation from? 21:28:55 * deus_x is neither natural size or club-footed 21:29:14 Aaron, please try going to http://translate.google.com/ and tell me what's there :-) 21:29:29 a little box to type text in 21:29:41 notice i didn't say http://translate.google.com/ 21:29:59 since that page doesn't say that, but that server does 21:30:01 oh, O.K. What protocol would you have me use? 21:30:09 HTTP 21:31:17 AaronSw is now known as AaronSw_chatting_with_zooko_aw 21:31:26 AaronSw_chatting_with_zooko_aw is now known as AaronSw 21:31:59 it's just that google uses POST instead of GET for such things, annoyingly 21:32:13 yes, that is annoying 21:32:18 so the url i get is http://translate.google.com/translate_t 21:32:21 did you see the GET deprecation thing? 21:32:25 no... 21:32:29 just the subject 21:32:53 it was pretty hillarious 21:33:31 >> The HTTP "get" protocol is deprecated for use in form submission. 21:33:31 >> Form authors should use "post" for greater compatibility. 21:33:43 lol 21:33:46 from who? 21:34:07 it was a Connolly spurred-exchange, I believe 21:34:20 Connolly would never say such a thing. 21:34:26 Connolly was against it 21:34:32 so who said that? 21:34:43 the XForms specification 21:34:49 .google "The HTTP "get" protocol is deprecated for use in form submission" 21:34:50 "The HTTP "get" protocol is deprecated for use in form submission": http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-xforms-20011207/slice11.html 21:34:55 oh man 21:35:00 you're kidding, right? 21:35:20 nope: it's there is black and white. that's what I said: hillarious 21:36:06 hmm, wonder why i didn't get connolly's original message 21:36:15 * sbp wonders that too 21:36:23 I didn't get it either, if that's any consolation 21:36:24 did you get it? 21:36:28 ah 21:36:31 perhaps Tim picked it up from the comments list 21:36:40 due to it being a TAG issue 21:36:53 yeah, i saw them talking about it on the telecon but didn't understand what they meant 21:37:35 * sbp listens to WIAWSNB 21:40:00 go mnot! http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2002Jan/0007.html 21:40:13 here's the original http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2002Jan/0013.html 21:40:39 heh, cool 21:43:12 i gotta agree with DanC, chair training sure ain't what it used to be! 21:44:32 Wow, Chris Lilley is against GET? 21:44:46 "GET requires munging the form contents into a set of name,value pairs and tacking them onto a URL to make an unweildy, I18N-hostile method of concealing that content is actually being transferred to the server." 21:45:20 Hmm, it seems he just means for putting XML documents or something. 21:45:32 yeah 21:46:01 I think he's just saying that POST isn't redundant when it comes to posting stuff to servers. Duh 21:53:33 [[[ 21:53:33 > >> It will also be Chinese New Year (Year of the Metal 21:53:33 > >> Snake): both fortuitous and fortunate, I hope. 21:53:33 > > 21:53:33 > > So what's it the year of? 21:53:33 > 21:53:35 > Seth (blushing) which goes to prove that people don't read. 21:53:37 ]]] 21:53:43 From: "Seth Russell" 21:53:43 To: 21:53:43 Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:33 PM 21:53:45 Subject: Re: SWAG: RE: Pausing To Reflect 21:53:50 this time last year :-) 21:54:11 lol 21:55:40 sbp has changed the topic to: Plex: this year's SWAG 21:56:06 heh, SWAG was so fun 21:56:09 Gotta run 22:29:46 deltab, is there a better way to keep track of instances of a class than a big global list? 22:44:48 it's a bit stupid that code isn't protected by the first amendment 22:45:54 [Welcome to Part VII of "Stating The Obvious", with sbp] 22:46:42 CygBot (~sbp@m766-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:50:58 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:57:48 I wonder what the most popular Google search is for something that does not return any results? 22:59:51 no, the courts have ruled that code is protected now 23:00:02 sbp, we can't tell you because then it would have results 23:00:22 hooray/yeah, cool paradox 23:01:01 well, not really a paradox, since you just have to time-qualify it 23:02:17 heh, cool topic 23:02:26 if code is protected, why do you fear that Plex will become illegal? 23:02:50 * sbp is surprised you didn't notice that earlier 23:03:04 our laws don't work that way 23:03:20 it can be OK to share the Plex code, but illegal to run it 23:03:36 that's what's happening in the DeCSS case it seems. 23:04:07 the court ruled code was speech (a lot of that was due to the TShirts and haikus and such) and that it could be distributed, but they didn't rule on whether using it is legal. 23:04:24 like, instructions on how to kill the president are protected, killing the president isn't. 23:04:52 Uh huh 23:05:51 banning Plex would be pretty low, though - it's really just a simple P2P system at the root of it 23:06:14 it'd be like 23:06:18 argh 23:06:55 it'd be like closing down banks because they're liable to be robbed, or transact stolen money, or something - 'Plex doesn't have to be used for illegal purposes 23:07:52 although, I suppose you have to weigh up the pros and cons given current usage. or at least, the courts do 23:08:43 e.g. the British courts (or rather: Parliament) decided that guns designed to kill people, and are often used as such. So they banned them 23:09:34 [Welcome to Part VIII of "Stating The Obvious", with sbp] 23:12:14 yeah, that's the weirdest thing about the US. We ban Napster but let guns off free. 23:12:22 That's what Lessig pointed out. 23:12:43 And when we do go after guns, we go after owners and retailers, not makers of guns. 23:13:33 \topic Whoever used Napster to kill someone? 23:13:34 :-) 23:14:49 it'd be really awesome if the Plex worked out. 23:14:56 [more stating the obvious] 23:15:05 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 23:15:10 Heh, heh. But it's true 23:15:36 Hello 23:15:45 At least it's not centralized, like Napster 23:15:47 Hi Ben 23:17:43 yep, that's why it'll be cool. 23:18:07 and even if they take all the copies of it off the web, we can still distribute it via itself and by hand. 23:18:52 lol 23:19:08 and by mail. Just print out the source code, get people to scan it in... 23:20:12 we can drop them from helicopters 23:20:31 heh, heh 23:22:39 * sbp listens to The Doors 23:24:04 heh, heh, heh: """Another update on the site, made it XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant, so now it should render fairly fast! Not sure if I like XHTML... and is there anyone who could please explain me how I can add target to an tag in XHTML?""" - http://www.fanms.com/ 23:24:18 Not a surprising statement, coming as it does from a site named "FanMS" 23:26:21 lol! 23:27:41 Hmm... 23:28:40 oh man, could you fix http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ for me? 23:28:54 it seems to have fecked up formatting of "*****" too 23:29:06 oh, fine 23:29:17 i'm in a good mood because pychord is working 23:29:27 ooh! 23:29:48 is it at a point where I'm going to be downloading it and testing it? 23:29:50 chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 23:29:58 not yet, really 23:30:10 it might be if people stopped taking advantage of my good mood ;-) 23:30:47 so you want me to change to ****? 23:31:24 please 23:31:44 and fix the crappy [] stuff in the Google-band thing 23:31:52 i'm not sure what that's supposed to be... 23:32:13 drummer: John Bonham of Led Zeppelin] -> ? 23:32:38 John Bonham [of Led Zeppelin] ... 23:33:08 and the google search linked to "search"? 23:33:30 please 23:35:01 how's it look now? 23:35:06 anything else before i turn chumpster back on? 23:35:55 * sbp reviews 23:36:05 Ugh: 23:36:05 -- 23:36:07 We're Sorry. 23:36:07 The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance. 23:36:07 We will be back shortly 23:36:08 -- 23:36:19 nope, that'll do 23:36:21 and #sourceforge is full, of course 23:36:25 SF down again? Blargh 23:37:03 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 23:37:24 thanks for fixing 23:37:28 i can just see them: "we better put a limit on the channel before everyone comes and starts complaining" 23:37:35 heh, heh, heh 23:48:10 tansaku (~sam@n144-062.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack