IRC log of swhack on 2002-01-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

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01:46:21 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw giggles:
01:46:32 [AaronSw]
<sbp> I'd rather install Java and use JigSaw
01:46:32 [AaronSw]
<hazmat> oooo.. low blow.
01:46:40 [AaronSw]
back, btw
01:48:07 [AaronSw]
had some splitty fun while i was gone, i see
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01:49:29 [AaronSw]
wb
01:50:30 [AaronSw]
wow: http://www.dyndns.org/news/2002/perl.php (via fogo)
01:51:34 [AaronSw]
heh: "The Perl Foundation, a creation of the Yet Another Society"
01:51:49 [AaronSw]
YAPYA
01:58:52 [AaronSw]
The Great Justin Mason writes:
01:58:55 [AaronSw]
"BTW I like swhack, http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ . ghod only knows
01:58:55 [AaronSw]
how I never found that before. Is there a way to see more than 1 day's
01:58:56 [AaronSw]
bloggage?"
01:59:48 [AaronSw]
"Just got a mail about SpamAssassin from Aaron Swartz, noted RDF guy. He runs a very interesting blog called swhack, which I've seen cited before, but never visited for some reason. Now I have, and it's on the bookmarks list ;)" - http://taint.org/2002/01/21/012656a.html
02:00:17 [sbp]
.google "Justin Mason"
02:00:28 [xena]
"Justin Mason": http://jmason.org
02:00:55 [sbp]
see, I told you we should leave more days displaying
02:01:04 [AaronSw]
well you figure out how to program it!
02:01:31 [sbp]
Heh, heh
02:03:01 [AaronSw]
ooh, he wrote a mailman->RSS script: http://taint.org/mmrss/
02:06:18 [hazmat]
thats cool.
02:08:01 [AaronSw]
lol! the best 404 i've ever seen: http://thcnet.net/error/index.php
02:08:05 [AaronSw]
@ http://thcnet.net/error/index.php
02:08:14 [chumpster]
A: ... 404 Error: Now what??? ... from AaronSw
02:08:30 [AaronSw]
A:|The Best 404 I've Ever Seen
02:08:32 [chumpster]
titled item A
02:08:33 [sbp]
wow, you're right
02:09:03 [AaronSw]
A::via [FoRK|http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/2001-November/005940.html], Dierken
02:09:03 [chumpster]
commented item A
02:09:48 [sbp]
A::"""it all started because I was bored, [...] I decided that it would be really cool if people were toend up at my 404 error page, and instead of the standard dull boring message telling them the obvious, they would get the opening to the all time classic text adventure game, Zork."""
02:09:49 [chumpster]
commented item A
02:10:27 [sbp]
A::so, FoRK led you to Zork?
02:10:28 [chumpster]
commented item A
02:13:16 [AaronSw]
heh
02:13:34 [AaronSw]
dangers of ignoring your email: webns.net and logicerror.com expire tomorrow
02:13:43 [sbp]
Ugh
02:13:56 [sbp]
* sbp suddenly wonders about mysterylights.com
02:14:16 [deltab]
March
02:14:28 [sbp]
Phew
02:14:36 [AaronSw]
heh, deltab knows all
02:15:33 [sbp]
it's scary that he knew before I did :-)
02:16:31 [AaronSw]
phew, renewd
02:16:34 [AaronSw]
err renewed
02:17:08 [AaronSw]
if anybody here sorts out their spam and nonspam, please donate it to spamassassin for their GA.
02:17:37 [AaronSw]
@ http://spamassassin.org/dist/masses/README
02:17:54 [chumpster]
B: http://spamassassin.org/dist/masses/README from AaronSw
02:18:16 [AaronSw]
B:|Donate your spam... to science!
02:18:16 [chumpster]
titled item B
02:19:18 [AaronSw]
B::If you sort out your spam and non-spam emails, please donate them to SpamAssassin for input into their Genetic Algorithm so that they can improve [their rulebase|http://spamassassin.org/tests.html].
02:19:19 [chumpster]
commented item B
02:20:26 [AaronSw]
B::Hi [Justin|http://taint.org/2002/01/21/012656a.html]! ;)
02:20:27 [chumpster]
commented item B
02:24:57 [sbp]
ugh, editor.py is nearly on 15KB... but it can do decent search and replaces now
02:25:21 [AaronSw]
why do you care so much about size?
02:25:34 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw wonders how much ArchiverProxy.py is now
02:25:45 [sbp]
I like concise
02:25:59 [deltab]
26kb
02:26:19 [AaronSw]
do you use it?
02:26:25 [AaronSw]
the latest is 32K
02:26:34 [deltab]
oh?
02:26:37 [AaronSw]
bloated by the ad-blocking code
02:26:52 [BenSw]
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02:36:40 [sbp]
* sbp updates savetoweb.py to load mappings from a text file
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02:49:32 [AaronSw]
hazmat, did you see mccusker's response to your comment?
02:49:40 [AaronSw]
http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#17jan02-ground
02:49:53 [sbp]
.time
02:49:53 [xena]
2002/01/21 02:51:32.1579 Universal
02:51:58 [sbp]
.time
02:51:59 [xena]
2002/01/21 02:53:37.485 Universal
02:54:00 [AaronSw]
heh, Zooko: "Heh heh heh. Dilbert is unemployed. It's good that he's keeping in touch with his audience."
02:54:09 [sbp]
lol
02:56:33 [AaronSw]
OK, we're off to watch MMT.
02:56:56 [sbp]
O.K., c'ya
02:56:56 [sbp]
MMT?
02:57:13 [AaronSw]
Magical Mystery Tour
02:57:38 [AaronSw]
Ever heard of it?
02:57:38 [sbp]
ooh, MMT is on? Aw...
02:57:57 [AaronSw]
No, we rented the DVD.
02:58:20 [sbp]
er... so you're not refering to the film by The Beatles?
02:58:20 [sbp]
ah
02:58:50 [AaronSw]
Ah, so you know of these "Beatles". I hear they're some new-age surrealist band.
02:59:33 [sbp]
Mr. Burns: Beatles, eh? Oh yes, I seem remember their off-wall catterwalling on the old Sullivan show. What was Ed thinking?
03:00:15 [AaronSw]
I don't know.
03:00:16 [AaronSw]
C'ya
03:00:31 [sbp]
c'ya
03:01:04 [sbp]
heh, heh "Number 8, *burp*, Number 8 *burp*, Number 8 *burp*"
03:01:09 [AaronSw]
heh heh
03:05:04 [sbp]
Homer: Dating back to my schoolgirl days when I painted portrait after portrait of Ringo Starr
03:05:13 [sbp]
Marge: Er, Homer, that's *my* life you're describing
03:05:22 [sbp]
Homer: Pff - I think I remember my own life, Marge
03:21:29 [AaronSw]
.py 17*2
03:21:29 [xena]
34
03:27:39 [tav]
heh
03:28:05 [tav]
* tav makes a mental not to turn up at sbp's house when in dire need
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03:48:43 [sbp]
ugh: "The requested URL cannot be accessed due to a system error on this server." - textify.tcl
03:50:52 [sbp]
wow, both of the TXT2HTML services that I know of have gone down
03:51:03 [sbp]
er... HTML2TXT
04:01:46 [sbp]
* sbp uses browser.py instead
04:01:56 [sbp]
* sbp saves the results to the Web using editor.py
04:03:34 [sbp]
if I had to write an OS, I'd call it os.py
04:09:03 [AaronSw]
heh
04:09:09 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw giggles
04:09:12 [sbp]
:-)
04:09:13 [sbp]
wb
04:09:29 [AaronSw]
We ended up watching Malcom.
04:09:38 [sbp]
Heh. As ya do
04:09:47 [AaronSw]
textify.tcl works for me.
04:10:04 [sbp]
doesn't work for me. I used MyHTMLParser() instead
04:10:23 [AaronSw]
Is it still broken? http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl
04:10:30 [AaronSw]
that's what it's called? MyHTMLParser?
04:10:43 [sbp]
yep: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl?url=http://infomesh.net/
04:10:47 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw notes to consult sbp for future naming
04:11:00 [sbp]
MyHTMLParser is a class in browser.py, that I should really refactor out
04:11:37 [sbp]
well, I gave up on trying to give them snazzy names, when I realised that the programs themselves were rather plain
04:12:15 [AaronSw]
hmm, wonder what's wrong with textify
04:12:43 [sbp]
you know how the old saying goes
04:12:53 [sbp]
the old Zen saying, that is
04:13:06 [sbp]
"when hungry, eat; when thirsty, drink; when bored, build a really cool but plain set of integrated Web applications using Python"
04:13:18 [AaronSw]
umm, right
04:13:27 [sbp]
something like that, anyway
04:13:48 [AaronSw]
let me know when you're done with the integrated weblog-music-photo-movie-chatlog-wiki system
04:13:53 [AaronSw]
i've been waiting a while for that one
04:14:03 [sbp]
y'mean photo.py?
04:14:14 [AaronSw]
photo.py is part, sure
04:14:31 [sbp]
* sbp notes that MyHTMLParser() is clearly visible in http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py
04:15:12 [sbp]
ooh, it's quite short really
04:15:47 [AaronSw]
your code is quite neat, but i don't think you've reached morbus' level of kode-shui
04:16:37 [sbp]
Yeah, he's quite arse-buggeringly, piss-waddlingly, out-of-this-world, gorped out on wacky stars, incredu-fenkily neat, isn't he?
04:17:03 [AaronSw]
well when you put it that way...
04:17:09 [sbp]
:-)
04:18:52 [sbp]
well, I reckon that I'm just about done with editor.py for releasing
04:20:23 [sbp]
O.K., it's on the Web
04:20:33 [sbp]
download it, try it out, tell me what you think
04:20:43 [AaronSw]
but it won't work on my machine, will it
04:20:54 [sbp]
doesn't Tkinter work on your machine?
04:21:15 [AaronSw]
ooh, /editor instead of /editor.py -- tricky!
04:21:24 [sbp]
Mwahahaha!
04:21:54 [sbp]
yeah, because it comes with savetoweb.py too
04:22:22 [AaronSw]
"A Simple GUI Text Editing Thingy, 2002-01"
04:22:23 [AaronSw]
NOTE: Not a deeley.
04:22:45 [sbp]
well, I was going to put deeley, but for some reason I typed thingy instead, and I was too lazy to change it
04:23:18 [sbp]
ooh, I could edit it online :-)
04:24:23 [AaronSw]
oh, cool. someone did build python-tkinter for os x
04:24:30 [AaronSw]
Thanks, Tony! http://tony.lownds.com/macosx/
04:29:42 [tav]
the string module's deprecated btw...
04:30:05 [sbp]
uh huh
04:30:18 [AaronSw]
yeah, they want you to use 'foo'.bar() instead
04:30:24 [sbp]
uh huh
04:32:30 [tav]
hmz
04:32:35 [tav]
strnage
04:32:44 [tav]
cygwin py2.1.1 has no htmlparser
04:32:57 [tav]
ehm
04:33:10 [tav]
no it does
04:33:41 [tav]
* tav slaps sbp for using py2.2
04:33:48 [sbp]
heh, heh
04:34:30 [AaronSw]
2.2 r0x0rs man -- get with the time
04:34:30 [sbp]
[[[
04:34:32 [sbp]
Current location:
04:34:32 [sbp]
File:http://infomesh.net/2002/editor/editor.txt
04:34:32 [sbp]
Line:1
04:34:32 [sbp]
Col:0
04:34:32 [sbp]
File text statistics:
04:34:32 [sbp]
Bytes:13999
04:34:34 [sbp]
Lines:373
04:34:36 [sbp]
Words:945
04:34:38 [sbp]
]]]
04:34:47 [AaronSw]
where's that from/
04:34:58 [sbp]
from the "information" window of editor.py
04:35:02 [AaronSw]
neat
04:35:29 [sbp]
are you installing Tkinter on OS X?
04:35:38 [AaronSw]
yeah, not having too much luck tho
04:35:46 [sbp]
ugh
04:36:09 [AaronSw]
if i run it from the terminal i get:
04:36:10 [AaronSw]
TclError: no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable
04:36:19 [AaronSw]
so i'm grabbing the os x snapshot
04:39:18 [AaronSw]
ugh, remind me to reduce the DNS TTLs... i've got too much on the stack
04:41:34 [AaronSw]
ok, Wish works.
04:41:55 [AaronSw]
--
04:41:56 [AaronSw]
File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.2/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
04:41:56 [AaronSw]
import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
04:41:56 [AaronSw]
ImportError: No module named _tkinter
04:41:57 [AaronSw]
--
04:42:18 [sbp]
ugh, annoying
04:42:30 [deltab]
did you compile python?
04:42:47 [AaronSw]
for this i'm using a binary from tony.lownds.com/macosx
04:42:57 [AaronSw]
he claims to have tkinter support
04:46:19 [AaronSw]
and the only _tkinter I have looks for an X display
04:49:50 [AaronSw]
oh wait, here's the right one
04:49:58 [AaronSw]
whee! it worked!
04:50:08 [sbp]
great!
04:50:36 [AaronSw]
why does it keep making me save?
04:50:47 [sbp]
how so?
04:51:20 [AaronSw]
oh, i just hit the wrong button. the tear-off menus are weird
04:53:03 [AaronSw]
hee, hee. high quality documentation
04:53:11 [AaronSw]
Hmm, it has two Help menus.
04:53:14 [AaronSw]
One is blank.
04:53:45 [sbp]
?
04:53:51 [tav]
goddamnit!
04:53:52 [AaronSw]
must be a mac thing
04:54:01 [tav]
cygwin overwrote python2.1
04:54:07 [AaronSw]
ouch
04:54:18 [AaronSw]
the tkinter port isn't exactly polished
04:54:35 [AaronSw]
only one document open at a time? ripoff
04:54:39 [sbp]
http://infomesh.net/2002/editor/screenshot.png
04:54:54 [sbp]
huh? open up a new window. Not difficult
04:55:04 [AaronSw]
it is on mac os x
04:55:52 [AaronSw]
argh, no keybindings for copy, paste, etc.
04:56:13 [sbp]
sure: ctrl+[x/c/v]
04:56:21 [AaronSw]
how come paste doesn't overwrite the highlighted text?
04:56:38 [AaronSw]
ok, the wrong keybindings ;-)
04:56:56 [sbp]
paste overwrite: works for me
04:57:06 [AaronSw]
hmm
04:57:52 [AaronSw]
Hmm, it won't let me edit docs from the web
04:58:07 [sbp]
you have to use Open URI and Save URI
04:58:15 [AaronSw]
i did.
04:58:21 [sbp]
and you must have savetoweb.py in the same directory if you want to save over FTP
04:58:23 [AaronSw]
oh -- it's tkinter gone wonky
05:03:32 [sbp]
It's not too bad though, is it?
05:03:44 [AaronSw]
No, it's quite nice.
05:03:48 [sbp]
well, nothwithstanding the fact that it doesn't work properly on OS X
05:03:50 [AaronSw]
I'm sure it's much better on Windows.
05:04:05 [sbp]
it's quite solid
05:04:28 [AaronSw]
Cool. Any plans for syntax coloring?
05:05:40 [sbp]
Hmm... not really. I've never been a fan of syntax coloring, strangely enough
05:06:02 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: #swhack: The Original #sbp
05:06:14 [AaronSw]
i figured
05:06:15 [sbp]
:-)
05:06:41 [sbp]
I just wanted something that edits, over the Web, and could handle line breaks properly
05:06:43 [AaronSw]
well, i can't say it will replace pepper for me...
05:06:51 [sbp]
lol
05:09:59 [AaronSw]
Time for another edition of #sbp summaries:
05:09:59 [AaronSw]
tav likes browser.py, wants to use it in omni
05:10:00 [AaronSw]
omni is the application framework formerly known as "that application framework"
05:10:01 [AaronSw]
sbp thinks it should be called .
05:10:04 [AaronSw]
blanu thinks it's a "component-based architecture for building applications, a la NeXTStep and such."
05:10:20 [AaronSw]
aaronsw thinks the omni folks grabbed the name omni first
05:10:35 [sbp]
Aaron thinks that #sbp is #swhack, and pastes the summary into the wrong channel
05:10:46 [AaronSw]
sbp laughs
05:10:49 [AaronSw]
out loud
05:10:51 [sbp]
:-)
05:12:01 [sbp]
NeXTStep sounds really neat. Tim praised it a lot
05:12:07 [AaronSw]
next week: aaronsw goes on hiatus leaving the job of summarizing to sbp, who goes on hiatus and leaves it to aaronsw, who both mirror the summaries at their respective websites. in the end, no more summaries are written.
05:12:32 [AaronSw]
<sbp> NeXTStep sounds really neat. Tim praised it a lot
05:12:32 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh
05:12:32 [AaronSw]
Did you hear? They changed the name to "Mac OS X".
05:12:33 [AaronSw]
;-)
05:13:09 [AaronSw]
.google omni group
05:13:10 [xena]
omni group: http://www.omnigroup.com
05:13:28 [AaronSw]
.google the omni guys
05:13:29 [xena]
the omni guys: http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/raves/content.html
05:14:54 [sbp]
I wanna work for them: http://www.omnigroup.com/company/whatisomni/philosophy/
05:16:04 [AaronSw]
lol! "our corporate chef serves us dinner in our formal dining room every weeknight, we play pool and foozball and watch Jackie Chan movies on our 62 inch television (with its 600 watt THX sound system)."
05:16:24 [sbp]
yeah, that's the bit that enticed me :-)
05:16:54 [AaronSw]
read: my mom cooks food for us at our house when i get the gang over to watch tv on the couch
05:17:12 [sbp]
ooh:-
05:17:14 [sbp]
[[[
05:17:14 [sbp]
Omni has a professional chef (and assistant). Dinner is at six-thirty every weeknight. Bring your SO if you like.
05:17:15 [sbp]
Omni buys you all the food and drinks you consume while you are working. Even if you go out to eat. Even if you don't think about work as you chew.
05:17:19 [sbp]
]]] - http://www.omnigroup.com/company/jobs/
05:18:00 [AaronSw]
this just in: tav says omni a codename
05:18:05 [sbp]
aw, they're located in Seattle. I'd have to move
05:18:14 [tav]
for fucks sake
05:18:17 [tav]
stop that
05:18:19 [AaronSw]
lol
05:18:34 [tav]
or if you want to quote me, do it off log
05:18:42 [AaronSw]
that'd make it pointless
05:18:49 [tav]
so, don't quote me
05:18:55 [AaronSw]
how am i going to remember these things if they're not logged?
05:19:32 [tav]
emacs things.to.remember
05:19:39 [AaronSw]
Doc Searls: "You need to grep your fucking memory, and it's hard."
05:20:03 [AaronSw]
things.to.remember: that's what swhack is
05:20:07 [AaronSw]
then google lets me search it
05:20:55 [AaronSw]
i mean why do you need to keep everything so private anyway?
05:21:14 [AaronSw]
we want people to take these ideas.
05:21:20 [AaronSw]
(i do, at least)
05:21:31 [sbp]
* sbp sometimes feels a bit weird about having spewed 1MB+ of innane chatter into the Web
05:21:37 [AaronSw]
heh
05:21:51 [sbp]
ooh, did you see my funny comment to PS?
05:21:58 [AaronSw]
no, what?
05:22:13 [AaronSw]
i found several megabytes of archives about who won and lost which hangman games
05:22:17 [sbp]
"""BTW, I'm not sure I would have chosen the acronym "URP". Every time I write it, I feel like excusing myself afterwards"""
05:22:32 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh.
05:23:31 [AaronSw]
hangman archives: http://archive.snoot.org/
05:24:02 [sbp]
wow, that is funny
05:24:04 [AaronSw]
now the whole world can know how i suck at hangsnoot
05:25:22 [AaronSw]
i'm of the let-people-do-whatever-they-want-and-keep-good-backups philosophy
05:27:13 [sbp]
well, recording where you fucked up, got a bit moody, or vulnerable is depressing sometimes
05:27:41 [sbp]
actually, this channel is an interesting sociological experiment. We have these little logging outburts every so often
05:27:49 [AaronSw]
you think so? i think it's just further proof that everyone sucks, which is sort of liberating.
05:28:20 [sbp]
Well, I think you have an easier time of it than some. You're more level headed than, for example, I am
05:28:42 [AaronSw]
hmm, you think so?
05:28:50 [AaronSw]
in real life, i'm apparently a total hothead
05:29:05 [sbp]
And I know that people like to take things out of context, or simply ignore that fact that you may have changed your opinions since some old rant
05:29:25 [sbp]
that only comes through occasionally on here :-)
05:30:03 [AaronSw]
heh heh
05:30:58 [AaronSw]
i think it's pretty clear that when we step into an age wheree your ramblings from age 6 are a few googles away (cf. sandro on google groups) people's perspectives on these things are going to have to change
05:31:39 [sbp]
Sure. And I don't really regret the logging... it's rather interesting, good for searching, reminds me how I've been wasting my time... it's "good" to record things
05:31:58 [AaronSw]
yep.
05:32:37 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m713-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com)))
05:32:55 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m713-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
05:33:15 [sbp]
that's another good thing: I can catch up on conversations
05:33:33 [AaronSw]
yeah
05:33:59 [sbp]
see, I would have missed: "05:31:58 <AaronSw> yep."
05:34:22 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw votes in the disney shareholders meeting
05:34:23 [AaronSw]
it's pretty easy to figure out what to vote for: just pick the opposite of what disney recommends
05:34:41 [sbp]
lol
05:34:48 [sbp]
You own shares in Disney?
05:35:00 [AaronSw]
i got one or two for my birthday once, from an aunt
05:35:05 [sbp]
neat
05:35:29 [AaronSw]
see, they want me to vote for "the 2002 Executive Performance Plan" -- obviously that's really the "2002 Give Ourselves Cash Plan"
05:35:53 [sbp]
heh, yeah
05:36:01 [AaronSw]
they want me to vote against labor standards in China, park safety reporting and independent accountants.
05:36:13 [sbp]
"All those in favour of giving ourselves a 10% pay raise..."
05:36:45 [sbp]
actually, this channel is also interesting in that we act sometimes
05:37:11 [sbp]
remember the cool arguments that we used to have? I really hope someone stumbles across them one day and thinks "woah"
05:37:39 [AaronSw]
we had cool arguments?
05:37:47 [tav]
yea, i was wondering that too
05:37:51 [tav]
when was that?
05:38:11 [sbp]
yeah. about all sorts of stuff, but mainly in the URI/RDF/xWebL days
05:38:19 [tav]
ah
05:38:26 [AaronSw]
ah, those were the days
05:38:46 [sbp]
we'd be sort of screaming at each other, and then Aaron would go "heh, look at this article", and then we'd just move onto laughing about that instead
05:39:06 [AaronSw]
heh
05:39:21 [AaronSw]
we'd also provide color commentary on whatever craziness was going in in #rdfig
05:39:27 [sbp]
Who needs Shakespeare when you've got #swhack?
05:39:36 [sbp]
heh, yeah. #rdfig is another cool place
05:43:07 [sbp]
if you could only leave 80 ASCII characters to the Web, what would they be?
05:46:59 [sbp]
<AaronSw> stop asking me stupid questions and upgrade to OS X, blah, blah, blah
05:47:17 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw is at 59 chars...
05:47:23 [sbp]
heh, really?
05:47:29 [AaronSw]
yeah
05:47:32 [sbp]
cool
05:48:02 [sbp]
* sbp hasn't even considered it. Well, I've considered it quite a lot, but not come up with anything
05:48:22 [sbp]
well, I came up with something, but it wasn't very good, and I can't even remember it now
05:49:11 [sbp]
it's not much space: " "
05:49:40 [AaronSw]
aha -- here it is, my life in 80 chars:
05:49:41 [AaronSw]
free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it.
05:49:59 [sbp]
neat!
05:50:21 [AaronSw]
hmm, i do like that
05:50:31 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it.
05:50:43 [AaronSw]
BLURB:free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it.
05:50:45 [chumpster]
C: free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it. from AaronSw
05:51:01 [AaronSw]
C::This is my life summed up in 80 characters, in response to a question from sbp.
05:51:02 [chumpster]
commented item C
05:51:10 [sbp]
* sbp checks the length
05:51:10 [sbp]
>>> len('free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it.')
05:51:11 [sbp]
80
05:51:11 [sbp]
>>>
05:51:25 [AaronSw]
yeah, i was quite surprised.
05:51:33 [sbp]
now, how can we spread this message...
05:51:34 [AaronSw]
i just finished writing, and behold: it was 80 chars.
05:51:39 [sbp]
spooky
05:52:05 [tav]
hmz
05:52:17 [tav]
gaia is mine you bitch!
05:52:25 [sbp]
tav's would be "hmz "
05:52:29 [tav]
heh
05:52:29 [AaronSw]
lol
05:52:53 [AaronSw]
man, i can't wait till we cut over to vorpal. i'm getting so much freaking spam
05:56:52 [sbp]
C::Mine would be something like: "Homer: Mmm... donuts. [quote courtesy of sbp. Thanks for tuning in - stay free!]"
05:56:53 [chumpster]
commented item C
05:56:59 [AaronSw]
wacky: "I'm a student. I know what English lessons are like. Being a student who sees what goes on, I know how apathetic and mindless most of my fellow frats are. Instead of reading something that could actually inspire them and do them good they'd rather sit down and read some trashy, low-rate, mediocre comic book. If I was condemned to read that kind of junk for the rest of my life and forced to write some ridiculously nouveau, mincy web-log I'd rather
05:56:59 [AaronSw]
- http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2002/1/18/170/07095/26#26
05:57:02 [AaronSw]
what has that guy been smoking?
05:57:28 [sbp]
AaronPot
05:58:11 [AaronSw]
continuing: "I was reading Dante's Inferno at the age of 2. I don't need some jumped-up, just-out-of-teacher-training-college Lehrer trying to teach me how to read and write."
06:01:26 [sbp]
heh, that's quite a cool rant
06:01:53 [sbp]
argh, I just noticed that I'm still using Notepad
06:02:12 [sbp]
I should have saved my draft attempts to the Web, but instead, I saved them to My Documents as usual
06:10:36 [AaronSw]
Dave to Powazek: 'Your site is the most brain-damaged weblog I've ever seen. "Design" does not mean "Do it differently from everyone else." Derek, you don't even know how to do a friggin email link. Learn, you're still young, there's time!!'
06:11:24 [AaronSw]
Boing Boing: "Stray fighting dogs are interbreeding with dingos in the Australian bush and producing a race of giant super-dogs that are terrorizing the countryside."
06:12:29 [sbp]
* sbp does a bit of history, finds out when #swhack was invented
06:12:53 [sbp]
I first entered the channel on Wed Jul 25 22:00:06 2001, BST
06:13:26 [deltab]
on the difference between designers and stylists: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/bathingape/
06:14:26 [AaronSw]
tav, what's notefi?
06:14:55 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw investigates this bathing ape
06:16:23 [AaronSw]
Dave Winer: "All michegas comes from Rumania. It's been proven."
06:16:28 [sbp]
according to my logs, the last two "lines" before the recorded ones in the #swhack archives are:-
06:16:37 [sbp]
[[[
06:16:38 [sbp]
[21:43] <sbp> Oh. Well, what loggy then?
06:16:38 [sbp]
[21:43] <AaronSw> my loggy... hold on.
06:16:39 [sbp]
]]]
06:17:03 [sbp]
and then #swhack was born [in #sbp] :-)
06:19:03 [AaronSw]
And the first lines in #swhack:
06:19:04 [AaronSw]
<sbp> But we won't be talking about the SW all of the time
06:19:04 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> I know, I just like the sound of it
06:19:04 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> like you're hitting someone with a mallet... swhack!
06:19:04 [AaronSw]
<AaronSw> OK?
06:19:04 [AaronSw]
<sbp> Yeah, go on then. I have to run now anyway :-)
06:19:20 [AaronSw]
See my story has remained the same even since then. swhack!
06:19:22 [tav]
tav has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
06:19:41 [AaronSw]
man, w/o swhack i'd be doing homework now
06:19:44 [tav]
tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
06:20:07 [sbp]
come again?
06:20:38 [sbp]
ooh, our private logs up until Jul 25th read like a mini-#swhacl
06:20:41 [sbp]
er... #swhack
06:20:50 [AaronSw]
ah, those were the days
06:21:41 [sbp]
seems that we were playing Go, but my logs folded just as the interesting "why #swhack?" bits starts
06:21:51 [sbp]
what was that about homework?
06:22:14 [AaronSw]
if we didn't have swhack i'd actually be doing my homework right now
06:22:39 [sbp]
yeah, I got that bit - but why?
06:22:48 [AaronSw]
umm, because it's due tomorrow
06:23:23 [sbp]
ah
06:23:33 [sbp]
why don't you go and do it, then?
06:23:51 [sbp]
is #swhack *that* enticing? :-)
06:24:01 [AaronSw]
it is indeed
06:24:44 [AaronSw]
man, Entourage sure has a lot of fields:
06:24:44 [AaronSw]
Spouse Birthday, Anniversary, Notes, Age, Astrology sign, Bloodtype, Furigana Company Name, Furigana First Name, Furigana Last Name, Furigana Spouse Name, Interests
06:24:50 [AaronSw]
.google "furigana company name"
06:24:51 [xena]
no results found.
06:24:57 [sbp]
Heh. I feel the same way - I should have gone to bed ages ago
06:25:00 [sbp]
Furigana?
06:25:04 [sbp]
.google Furigana
06:25:05 [xena]
Furigana: http://sp.cis.iwate-u.ac.jp/sp/lesson/j/doc/furigana.html
06:25:10 [AaronSw]
yeah, seems a bit odd
06:25:28 [AaronSw]
i like how it automatically calculates your age and astrology sign from your birthday
06:25:39 [sbp]
ah, the Little Black Dress: http://transcriptions.english.ucsb.edu/topics/infoart/chanel/chanel-merchandise.html
06:25:42 [sbp]
that is good
06:26:17 [sbp]
ah, it's Hiragana
06:26:32 [sbp]
it's a... subset/vocabulary/dialect of Japanese
06:26:49 [AaronSw]
available "by ruby tags" apparently
06:27:04 [tav]
tav has quit (Excess Flood)
06:28:03 [sbp]
well, Ruby can do text runs, so you have a bit of Kanji base, and Hiragana run text
06:28:05 [tav]
tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
06:28:52 [sbp]
Chaals showed me how to type Japanese... it was quite bizarre
06:29:17 [AaronSw]
yeah, mac os x has this odd little palette appear when you enter japanese mode
06:30:35 [AaronSw]
Today it seems sort of hard to believe that I was over in London just a short while ago. <sigh />
06:31:19 [sbp]
Yeah. It's quite freaky that you were in this room just 20 days ago!
06:32:40 [AaronSw]
Exactly 20?
06:33:09 [sbp]
dunno. Possibly
06:33:18 [AaronSw]
ò£
06:33:26 [AaronSw]
hmm, that' didn 't come out right
06:33:29 [sbp]
nope, two-weeks, in fact
06:33:38 [AaronSw]
i guess irc isn't very ogood with japanese
06:33:53 [sbp]
no, it's not
06:34:06 [AaronSw]
Ooh, now I'm speaking British!
06:34:10 [AaronSw]
color
06:34:11 [AaronSw]
hmm
06:34:18 [AaronSw]
And this is Australian.
06:35:03 [AaronSw]
the power of i18n in the os
06:37:18 [AaronSw]
i better get to sleep so i can wake up in the morning and do homework
06:37:32 [AaronSw]
nite
06:38:09 [sbp]
O.K., c'ya
06:38:11 [AaronSw]
c'ya
07:05:57 [sbp]
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08:04:34 [tav]
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08:04:57 [tav]
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08:06:41 [tav```]
tav``` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
08:06:54 [tav]
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09:30:34 [tav```]
tav``` is now known as tav
09:37:51 [Emberwild]
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09:43:40 [tav]
Emberwild?
09:53:35 [Emberwild]
yes ?
09:58:35 [Emberwild]
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09:58:55 [Emberwild]
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10:00:07 [tav]
hi
10:00:10 [tav]
do we know you?
10:03:13 [Emberwild]
no dont think so
10:05:58 [Emberwild]
just wanted to see what the openprojects network had to offer
10:11:37 [tav]
ah
10:12:01 [tav]
well, we are l33t script k1dd13s
11:31:42 [tansaku]
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tansaku5 is now known as tansaku
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13:47:05 [AaronSw]
tsk: <tav> well, we are l33t script k1dd13s
13:47:34 [AaronSw]
what a great name for a book: "What is the name of this book?"
13:56:53 [AaronSw]
sean, your mail is bouncing
13:56:55 [AaronSw]
.dns mysterylights.com
13:56:56 [xena]
mysterylights.com - 80.94.192.48
13:57:15 [AaronSw]
you should put your mail on vorpal ;-)
13:58:03 [Emberwild]
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14:20:21 [AaronSw]
Logic teacher: "VALIDITY IS MAXIMALLY GENERAL: IT EXTENDS ACROSS ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS/MEANINGS. Hey, this is LOGIC, what else do you expect?!" (caps in the original)
14:24:12 [Emberwild]
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14:39:34 [AaronSw]
'[Seinfeld is the] tableaux of human fecklessness imagined and presented with an adamantine clarity no less intoxicating than the smooth stone of "Apollo and Daphne," the riotous imagery on the dominant wall of the Sistine Chapel.'
14:39:34 [AaronSw]
- http://www.salon.com/ent/masterpiece/2002/01/07/seinfeld/print.html
15:02:00 [tansaku]
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15:24:56 [AaronSw]
<giggle /> Paul Snively: 'Anything that requires you to even invoke a command line, let alone type something like "apt-get install *kernel-module*," to install a driver emphatically does not qualify as a "real desktop OS."'
16:51:06 [sbp]
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16:57:25 [sbp]
Wow, a smeg worth of answers to my URx questions
17:10:01 [sbp]
paraphrased quote of the week: XHTML is not sacred
17:27:16 [sbp]
@ http://www.dantobias.com/webtips/force.html
17:27:21 [chumpster]
D: http://www.dantobias.com/webtips/force.html from sbp
17:27:27 [sbp]
D:|Feel The Force
17:27:28 [chumpster]
titled item D
17:28:02 [sbp]
D::An interesting page - a good example of the style in which all Web accessibility material should be written.
17:28:03 [chumpster]
commented item D
17:28:45 [sbp]
D::It answers the question "how do I force a user of my page to do X" with the simple answer "you can't", but with a list of reasons along the way
17:28:46 [chumpster]
commented item D
17:39:05 [sbp]
ooh! he hates Amaya too: "It's not intended as a practical browser for end-users, and is full of bugs and flaws." - http://www.dantobias.com/webtips/brand-x.html
17:51:45 [tansaku]
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17:53:41 [hobu]
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17:55:15 [sbp]
* sbp waves to Emberwild and hobu
17:56:23 [hobu]
hello
17:57:22 [sbp]
BTW, this channel is publically logged to the Web. If you want to say something off-log, prefix your comments with "# "
17:57:39 [sbp]
logs: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/
17:57:47 [Lion7]
Lion7 (~AZERTY@ALimoges-101-1-2-107.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack
17:57:54 [sbp]
Hi Lion7...
17:57:55 [hobu]
actually, I found this channel through that page :)
17:58:00 [Lion7]
hey all
17:58:02 [sbp]
Ah, fair enough :-)
17:58:16 [sbp]
* sbp repeats for Lion7's sake: <sbp> BTW, this channel is publically logged to the Web. If you want to say something off-log, prefix your comments with "# "
17:58:34 [hobu]
I mostly hang out on #ipaq and #zope on this server.... didn't know about this one
17:58:46 [Lion7]
bon..
17:58:48 [Lion7]
je vous quiite
17:58:50 [Lion7]
Lion7 has left #swhack
17:59:06 [sbp]
yeah... there are quite a few good channels on this server
17:59:16 [sbp]
ooh, a zope person, eh?
17:59:29 [sbp]
there are some big fans and big haters of Zope in this channel :-)
18:00:21 [hobu]
I'm a noob for the most part, but I can do a few things with it...more of a fan of python that brought me to zope
18:00:41 [sbp]
we're all Python fans. I think it's a prerequesite to get in the channel :-)
18:00:50 [hobu]
:)
18:00:56 [sbp]
* sbp is not particularly fond of Zope, though
18:01:05 [sbp]
in fact, I'm just hacking on a Python browser right now
18:01:08 [hobu]
I'm going to tthe conference in a couple of weeks!
18:01:24 [sbp]
neat. Will you be there for TimBL's keynote?
18:01:37 [hobu]
all four days... shouldn't miss it
18:07:48 [hobu]
do you know of a python (or how to quickly write one) that you can point at a directory and it will return a nested list of all the filenames?
18:18:01 [hobu]
.google zope
18:18:02 [xena]
zope: http://www.zope.org
18:23:50 [sbp]
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18:25:01 [sbp]
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18:25:58 [sbp]
I wonder if there are (m)any words in the OED that don't yield any results on Google?
18:42:23 [lilo]
[Global notice] Hi all. Ongoing network announcements may be found on WALLOPS, including a pending request for assistance with the dancer-ircd code base.
18:43:30 [lilo]
[Global notice] To see wallops, one of the following commands may be used, depending on your client: "/umode +w", "/mode <yournick> +w", "/quote mode <yournick> +w", "/raw mode <yournick> +w" .... thanks.
18:47:03 [AaronSw]
man, it's a beautiful say out
18:47:17 [AaronSw]
err day
18:47:40 [AaronSw]
i'm really liking this routine. i've got an hour or so to think about big-picture stuff, while i commute.
18:47:44 [AaronSw]
it's fun, but it's hard work
18:47:57 [AaronSw]
i'm trying to find a method to all my crazy projects... pick out themes and stuff
18:48:00 [bensw]
bensw (~bensw@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack
18:48:07 [AaronSw]
I think i finally figured it out today.
18:48:11 [bensw]
hello
18:48:16 [sbp]
where are you now?
18:48:19 [sbp]
Hi Ben
18:48:23 [AaronSw]
I'm trying to make the internet a better place for collaboration, communication and commerce.
18:48:30 [AaronSw]
^ that's my big theme
18:48:33 [bensw]
* bensw is a level 3 warrior in alter aeon
18:48:39 [sbp]
Hmm... the three c's
18:48:45 [AaronSw]
i'm at home now, and ben is sitting next to me using vorpal
18:48:48 [bensw]
logout
18:48:55 [AaronSw]
whoa, i said the wrong thing
18:49:00 [AaronSw]
stupid tav, screwing up my big line
18:49:18 [AaronSw]
take two: I'm trying to make the internet a better place for reading, writing and collaboration.
18:49:30 [AaronSw]
that's better.
18:51:01 [bensw]
bensw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:51:37 [AaronSw]
everybody's studied reading. that's what all of our silly one-way media are.
18:51:56 [AaronSw]
writing too has been pretty big, it's rather well understood
18:52:03 [AaronSw]
but collaboration isn't as much.
18:52:06 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m55-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
18:52:16 [AaronSw]
it's built on reading and writing, but it's definitely more than the sum of its parts.
18:52:21 [deus_x]
Funny, making the internet a better place for reading, writing, and collaboration is mostly what all my projects end up being about, too.
18:52:24 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m55-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
18:52:28 [AaronSw]
heh, cool.
18:52:41 [sbp]
"For he has nothing, yet he can fly" - Bert Jansch, Bird Song
18:52:58 [deus_x]
I just re-discovered and went nuts about wiki's this weekend. Weblogs were last week for me :)
18:52:59 [AaronSw]
I think my taxonomy makes good sense.
18:53:05 [AaronSw]
Heh, heh, heh.
18:53:17 [deus_x]
Now I want to run my weblog entries through my wiki.
18:53:26 [AaronSw]
That's what Ken was doing, I think.
18:53:37 [AaronSw]
certainly they're very similar.
18:53:49 [AaronSw]
I'm thinking of building in some sort of weblog thing to blogspace/zwiki
18:53:49 [sbp]
* sbp catches a bit of WTW influence on AaronSw, wonders if he's been reading it
18:54:02 [AaronSw]
re-reading it... no... hmm
18:54:28 [deus_x]
I was poking at Movable Type and UseModWiki this weekend. Mostly in setting up my http://www.decafbad.com/arboretum/ site
18:54:31 [AaronSw]
it does sit immediately above my computer, tho [reaches, all his stuff falls down on him]
18:54:37 [sbp]
heh, heh
18:54:46 [sbp]
Homer: Stupid gravity
18:55:22 [AaronSw]
so i came up with a little summary of each of the three sections for my homepage.
18:56:32 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m79-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))
18:56:49 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m79-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
18:57:01 [AaronSw]
each of them contains larger projects i'm working towards.
18:57:49 [AaronSw]
like for reading i want to build an information feed -- a news aggregator like RU or Ampheta. for writing i want an information space like blogspace and the plex, and for collaboration i want easy group formation with voting and consensus process, trust metrics, etc.
19:01:05 [deus_x]
Hmm, sounds like what I want to work on :)
19:01:35 [AaronSw]
heh... have a website?
19:02:04 [deus_x]
I think I wandered into the plex channel at one point, since I was musing about a way to make a distributed personal biographical metadata system, inspired by user info on LiveJournal accounts.
19:02:21 [deus_x]
AaronSw: Just starting to re-create mine after it was lost on an old server. I'm a web-nobody right now :)
19:02:29 [AaronSw]
:-/
19:02:58 [deus_x]
I do have one project just starting under my domain at http://www.decafbad.com/arboretum but I have to flesh out the rest of the site, including my personal junk
19:04:43 [AaronSw]
interesting... building another outliner?
19:04:51 [deus_x]
Yup, yet another outliner :)
19:05:13 [deus_x]
Not sure how far I'll get, but I kind of want to make an emacs-of-outliners in Cocoa
19:05:16 [AaronSw]
hmm... your true name, l.m. orchard sounds familiar
19:05:35 [AaronSw]
heh, i get it: orchard...arboretum
19:06:03 [deus_x]
Sort of :) Also outlines -> trees -> Arboretum. And I live in Ann Arbor. It's overly clever as a name
19:06:18 [deus_x]
Oh, and the office building I work in is called the Arboretum
19:06:33 [AaronSw]
heh, heh
19:06:50 [deus_x]
Probably the only project I'll ever do which has so many punny connections
19:07:29 [AaronSw]
puns, upon puns...
19:08:30 [deus_x]
I've got a weird habit of looking for clever project names, whether they actually are or not.
19:09:10 [AaronSw]
IEEE: "thanks for replying on time (you'd be amazed at what authors try to get away with!)."
19:10:42 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@n144-174.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
19:19:28 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:26:22 [AaronSw]
Uh oh. ICANN is trying to take over protocols too? http://www.icann.org/pso/pso-mou.htm
19:34:07 [deus_x]
D'oht
19:36:43 [AaronSw]
Heh. "I love that doorknob one, but IS's lead editor is not crazy about it."
19:50:24 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw takes a photo for his article
19:50:46 [AaronSw]
it looks like a back-of-book cover: windswept, grinning, old yellow brick
19:53:13 [AaronSw]
.wn windswept
19:53:14 [xena]
windswept defined as:
19:53:15 [xena]
- adj : open to or swept by wind; "windswept headlands"
19:56:06 [AaronSw]
http://blogspace.com/random/windswept
19:59:14 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m186-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
19:59:31 [AaronSw]
wb
20:00:37 [sbp]
ty
20:00:38 [AaronSw]
sbp, what do you think of my new arrogant-author photo i just took: http://blogspace.com/random/windswept
20:00:41 [sbp]
* sbp catches up
20:00:41 [AaronSw]
np
20:01:27 [AaronSw]
heh, if you crop it down right, it looks like i'm the separator between light and dark
20:02:05 [hobu]
hobu has left #swhack
20:02:31 [AaronSw]
hmm, i didn't see hobu come in
20:02:37 [sbp]
heh, that's pretty cool. How/where did you take it?
20:02:37 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw checks the user list
20:02:50 [AaronSw]
i just took it outside, next to the front door.
20:02:54 [sbp]
Hobu came in a while ago. I had a little chat with him/her
20:03:02 [AaronSw]
in channel?
20:03:05 [sbp]
yeah
20:03:14 [AaronSw]
hmm.
20:03:23 [AaronSw]
i needed it for my magazine article, so i grabbed camera and mother
20:03:41 [sbp]
You're writing a magazine article?
20:05:23 [AaronSw]
past tense -- wrote
20:05:36 [AaronSw]
Don't you remember? On MusicBrainz for the IEEE Intelligent Systems magazine
20:05:40 [AaronSw]
it goes into production this week.
20:05:50 [AaronSw]
Not as glamorous as being on the cover of a big red book...
20:06:08 [sbp]
* sbp doesn't recall it
20:06:17 [AaronSw]
Hmm, I don't think Emberwild every introduced {his,her}self.
20:06:22 [sbp]
yeah, but freer writing, I presume
20:06:34 [AaronSw]
Yeah, it wasn't very hard to write
20:06:39 [AaronSw]
.google detourzos
20:06:40 [xena]
detourzos: http://students.uwsp.edu/ddani849/Postman%20Dertouzos%20Analysis.htm
20:06:43 [sbp]
Hmm... is spring ever going to come? It's always so dark out
20:06:44 [AaronSw]
.google detourzos jukebox
20:06:46 [xena]
detourzos jukebox: http://logicerror.com/musicbrainzArticle
20:06:49 [AaronSw]
that's it
20:06:56 [AaronSw]
it's a bright and beautiful day out here today
20:06:59 [AaronSw]
quite chilly, tho
20:07:10 [AaronSw]
bright: as you can see from the photo i just took
20:07:12 [sbp]
Time stands still but the clock moves on
20:07:17 [sbp]
yeah
20:07:20 [sbp]
.time cst
20:07:21 [xena]
Jan. 21, 2002 2:08 pm US/Central
20:07:39 [sbp]
well, it should be. Gets dark about 4:45 here
20:08:40 [AaronSw]
yeah, same here
20:09:06 [AaronSw]
Gonna move vorpal to the server room today.
20:09:15 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw calls to see if it's time
20:09:36 [AaronSw]
argh, stupid overlay codes
20:09:48 [sbp]
where's the piece that you wrote for your homepage? I'd be interested to read that
20:09:57 [AaronSw]
i haven't typed it in yet
20:10:25 [sbp]
wow, not only does it not exist, it doesn't not exist
20:10:44 [AaronSw]
Heh.
20:12:37 [sbp]
"You did wrong, you did wrong, tell my friend Willie Brown"
20:13:28 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw tries to figure out how to reconfigure networking on debian
20:14:28 [sbp]
* sbp listens to some good music and wonders what else he should do out of his huge TODO list
20:19:24 [AaronSw]
ah, man /etc/network/interfaces is pretty useful
20:20:52 [AaronSw]
Charlie Goodier says that mIRC and Besirc crash on him, making them unusable.
20:21:19 [AaronSw]
he says they "seem to crash after every attempted operation" on XP
20:21:39 [sbp]
heh, heh
20:21:44 [AaronSw]
The Omni Group: "Your mom called, and she said you should license OmniWeb."
20:29:33 [AaronSw]
i'm moving all my servers to a new T3, so there'll be some DNS-based outages on swartzfam.com and theinfo.org.
20:29:54 [sbp]
ugh
20:30:09 [AaronSw]
do you use those servers for something important?
20:30:38 [AaronSw]
or at all
20:30:39 [sbp]
they're part of the Web, and I use the Web for something important
20:30:48 [AaronSw]
there's always web.archive.org
20:30:52 [sbp]
true
20:31:07 [AaronSw]
if you have a speedy DNS resolver it shouldn't be an issue... but nobody really does
20:34:34 [AaronSw]
but it might be messed up for 24 hours
20:34:44 [AaronSw]
alright... time to pack things up
20:41:01 [deus_x]
* deus_x hates meetings.
20:45:52 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
20:47:08 [AaronSw]
pl. pff o gp
20:47:13 [AaronSw]
err ok, off i go
20:53:44 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@m142-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
20:56:33 [DoidM]
DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
20:56:42 [sbp]
Hi Doid
20:56:57 [DoidM]
helooo
20:57:07 [DoidM]
(thought it broke again)
20:57:16 [DoidM]
Besirc
20:57:21 [sbp]
Uh huh?
20:57:23 [DoidM]
hey tav
20:57:32 [DoidM]
Besirc keeps crashing
20:57:51 [sbp]
Um... have you been in #swhack before?
20:57:59 [DoidM]
no
20:58:21 [sbp]
So you don't know that this channel is publically and instantly logged to the Web
20:58:31 [sbp]
to say something off-log, preprend it with "# "
20:58:55 [sbp]
logs: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/
21:00:07 [sbp]
So, what can we do you for?
21:00:18 [sbp]
Presuming you're still there, that is...
21:01:31 [sbp]
* sbp seems to have found a kick-ass way of scaring people off - "Google is watching!"
21:03:12 [DoidM]
I've typed about five lines off-log. where are they?
21:03:12 [DoidM]
hehe
21:03:12 [DoidM]
Yep
21:03:16 [DoidM]
DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:03:31 [sbp]
Heh, WTF?
21:04:10 [sbp]
that guy needs a better IRC client :-)
21:04:52 [DoidM]
DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
21:04:55 [sbp]
wb
21:05:04 [sbp]
Still on BersIRC?
21:06:22 [DoidM]
DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:06:32 [sbp]
that appears to be a "yes"
21:07:18 [sbp]
we've had some rather funky people in the channel today, haven't we boys and girls?
21:07:32 [DoidM]
DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
21:07:36 [sbp]
wb, again
21:07:58 [DoidM]
Urgh! I'm typing stuff and entering but it's
21:08:04 [DoidM]
not going anywhere!
21:08:22 [sbp]
well, my advice is to get a decent IRC client
21:08:43 [sbp]
.google decent IRC client
21:08:45 [xena]
decent IRC client: http://www.mirc.co.uk/get.html
21:13:08 [DoidM]
DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:13:42 [DoidM]
DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
21:15:24 [deus_x]
Hmm.. I need a better textarea for writing on the web. I'm sure this is not a new idea.
21:19:27 [sbp]
* sbp returns from posting some letters, and plays "Down By The Seaside", Led Zeppelin
21:19:33 [sbp]
textarea: been there, done that
21:19:44 [sbp]
that's why I wrote the editor that lets me save over the Web
21:19:59 [sbp]
that's whay I wrote a Wiki in ASP, and RDFWiki in Python
21:20:12 [sbp]
that's why I welcomed Blogspaced, tried out Amaya, worked on HTTP PUT
21:20:19 [sbp]
that's why I wrote QuickPut
21:20:25 [deus_x]
I see I need to do more Googling, and less Krogering.
21:20:38 [sbp]
and that's why I continue to work on collaboration over the Web :-)
21:20:42 [sbp]
yeah
21:20:52 [sbp]
but it's always nice to start from scrtach - less preconceptions
21:20:53 [DoidM]
I downloaded Amaya again. Is the new one good?
21:21:04 [sbp]
my personal opinion of Amaya is not very high
21:21:14 [deus_x]
Seems like I'm in the right place :)
21:22:13 [sbp]
heh: """Some folks are big into Amaya* for writing hypertext (others can't stand it)""" - http://logicerror.com/hypertext
21:22:29 [sbp]
"Some folks" is linked to DanC, and "others" is linked to me. Thanks, Aaron!
21:23:14 [sbp]
.google RDFWiki
21:23:15 [xena]
RDFWiki: http://infomesh.net/2001/rdfwiki
21:23:21 [sbp]
.google PUT handler
21:23:22 [xena]
PUT handler: http://www.w3.org/Daemon/User/Config/Accessories.html
21:23:28 [sbp]
.google QuickPut
21:23:29 [xena]
QuickPut: http://infomesh.net/2001/07/python/quickput.txt
21:23:36 [sbp]
ugh, that's the old one
21:23:59 [sbp]
new one: http://infomesh.net/2001/QuickPut/QuickPut.txt
21:24:13 [deus_x]
Hmm, must hack with Python more often.
21:24:22 [sbp]
the PUT handler is somewhere in www-archive... lemme find it
21:24:53 [sbp]
ta da: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0163
21:24:58 [sbp]
yeah, Python is great
21:25:16 [sbp]
* AaronSw waves from server room. setting up new machine (vorpal) on T3
21:25:18 [sbp]
- #rdfig
21:25:25 [AaronSw]
hi :)
21:25:47 [sbp]
the server room is down the road from your house, isn't it?
21:26:14 [DoidM]
well hello Aaron
21:26:17 [DoidM]
DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:26:24 [AaronSw]
hey doid!
21:26:31 [AaronSw]
hmm, that didn't last long
21:26:38 [DoidM]
DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
21:26:41 [AaronSw]
wb
21:26:50 [DoidM]
Thankyou. Hi Aaron.
21:27:07 [deus_x]
Whee... wiki-ing about DocBook at work, thinking about DocBooking the wiki.
21:27:13 [AaronSw]
heh heh
21:28:28 [AaronSw]
"they were all in love with death. they were doing it in texas"
21:29:09 [sbp]
So, how's Vorpal?
21:30:11 [AaronSw]
we'll see in a sec.
21:31:17 [sbp]
let's hope that Vorpal will be the proverbial Web White Hole that it has been billed as
21:31:27 [sbp]
woah, that sentence didn't come out right
21:32:21 [sbp]
or whoa. Google seems to think that "whoa" is more popular
21:32:40 [AaronSw]
white hole?
21:32:49 [DoidM]
* wonders whats on Vorpal
21:32:49 [AaronSw]
ok... makes noise, lights blink
21:32:55 [sbp]
yes. the opposite of a black hole. Spews matter out into the universe
21:33:19 [AaronSw]
that'd be a white fountain
21:33:20 [sbp]
much like spankybot, back in its heyday
21:33:26 [AaronSw]
i'm going to move my email onto vorpal, more to come
21:33:31 [sbp]
.google "White hole"
21:33:33 [xena]
"White hole": http://www.whiteriver.net/whitehole
21:33:39 [AaronSw]
.google "white fountain"
21:33:42 [xena]
"white fountain": http://www.cix.co.uk/~philla/tgm/tales/wf1.htm
21:33:50 [sbp]
Grpgmrpmgprmgh
21:33:59 [sbp]
.google "White hole" "black hole" spacetime
21:34:01 [xena]
"White hole" "black hole" spacetime: http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html
21:34:06 [sbp]
* sbp plays Bron-Yr-Aur
21:34:34 [sbp]
there we go: the Schwarzschild metric
21:35:04 [sbp]
that's quite a good page, actually
21:35:18 [AaronSw]
.google "white fountain" "black hole" spacetime
21:35:20 [xena]
no results found.
21:35:43 [sbp]
they're called white holes, trust me. They're holes, but things come out of them
21:35:54 [AaronSw]
"Rosen posited that each black hole would symmetrically on another gravitational well called a white hole (or sometimes also white fountain)."
21:35:55 [AaronSw]
- http://leminuteur.free.fr/Universes.htm
21:36:01 [sbp]
blargh
21:36:51 [sbp]
* sbp wonders where deus and Doid went
21:37:07 [AaronSw]
the Adler planetarium had a big 3d show on them with star trek stuff and everything
21:37:14 [AaronSw]
and they called them white fountains
21:38:34 [sbp]
well, I call them White Holes, and I'm always right, so nyahh nyahh :-)
21:38:54 [sbp]
"white fountain" does make more sense...
21:39:28 [AaronSw]
yeah
21:39:46 [AaronSw]
that's the nice thing about language: so egalitarian
21:40:39 [sbp]
well, it's not really
21:40:53 [DoidM]
feel the need to make globally useful rdf but too lazy
21:40:55 [sbp]
with cultural idioms, and the like
21:41:15 [AaronSw]
hmm
21:41:38 [AaronSw]
perhaps democratic would have been a better word
21:42:52 [sbp]
we elect words, now?
21:43:25 [DoidM]
sorry, election for what?
21:43:38 [sbp]
OED nomination, perhaps :-)
21:43:57 [DoidM]
he
21:44:16 [sbp]
language isn't all that smooth, but it does evolve by consensus, if that's what you mean
21:44:31 [sbp]
especially as colloqualisms get accepted into the mainstream
21:44:57 [sbp]
s/colloqualisms/colloquialisms/
21:44:58 [DoidM]
DoidM has left #swhack
21:45:02 [AaronSw]
yep
21:45:14 [AaronSw]
so if everyone started saying white fountain, that'd be its name
21:45:32 [DoidM]
DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
21:45:32 [sbp]
ooh: http://63.149.73.20/
21:45:35 [AaronSw]
can tou ping 63.149.73.20?
21:45:35 [sbp]
yeah
21:46:08 [AaronSw]
cool
21:46:13 [CygBot]
CygBot (~sbp@m142-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
21:46:15 [AaronSw]
.http://63.149.73.20/
21:46:16 [xena]
Welcome to Your New Home Page! Welcome to Your New Home in Cyberspace! This is a placeholder page installed by the Debian release of the Apache Web server package, because no home page was installed on this host. You may want to replace this as soon as possible with your own web pages, of course.... This computer has installed the Debian GNU/Linux operating system but has nothing to do with the
21:46:17 [xena]
Debian GNU/Linux project. If you want to report something about this host's behavior or domain, please contact the ISPs involved directly, not the Debian Project. See the Network Abuse Clearinghouse for how to do this. Unless you changed its configuration, your new server is configured as follows: Configuration files can be found in /etc/apache. The DocumentRoot, which is the directory under
21:46:18 [xena]
.. a very large amount of text.
21:46:31 [sbp]
10$ ping 63.149.73.20
21:46:37 [CygBot]
> Pinging 63.149.73.20 with 32 bytes of data:
21:46:38 [CygBot]
>
21:46:39 [CygBot]
> Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=288ms TTL=241
21:46:40 [CygBot]
> Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=261ms TTL=241
21:46:41 [CygBot]
> Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=248ms TTL=241
21:46:42 [CygBot]
> Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=247ms TTL=241
21:46:43 [CygBot]
>
21:46:44 [CygBot]
> Ping statistics for 63.149.73.20:
21:46:45 [CygBot]
> Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
21:46:46 [CygBot]
> [...]
21:46:55 [AaronSw]
cool.
21:47:02 [CygBot]
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21:47:14 [AaronSw]
can you go to the w3c's html2text thing and see if it can see my page?
21:47:26 [AaronSw]
(since i can't reach it)
21:47:29 [sbp]
the W3C's service didn't work last time I tried it
21:47:33 [sbp]
but I'll try again
21:47:36 [AaronSw]
yeah, scheduled downtime
21:47:39 [AaronSw]
it should be back now
21:48:06 [sbp]
nope, still doesn't work for me
21:48:11 [AaronSw]
hmm
21:48:17 [AaronSw]
maybe ,head?
21:48:30 [sbp]
.http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/html2txt?url=http://63.149.73.20/
21:49:29 [sbp]
* sbp tries http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/headers?url=http://63.149.73.20/
21:49:59 [sbp]
doesn't seem to want to work
21:50:20 [AaronSw]
oh well
21:55:06 [sbp]
Gotta run
21:55:25 [sbp]
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22:13:25 [DoidM]
DoidM has left #swhack
22:18:24 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw crosses fingers... time to move mail over
22:24:08 [AaronSw]
deltab, what directory is my mail in again?
22:29:55 [sbp]
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22:35:40 [tav```]
tav``` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack
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22:58:28 [AaronSw]
spamassasin has already caught one spam
22:58:32 [AaronSw]
ooh, two
23:03:57 [sbp]
Hmm... I should write a content hashing thingy
23:04:10 [sbp]
Aaron: would you host it for me?
23:04:15 [AaronSw]
of course
23:04:18 [AaronSw]
what does it do?
23:04:38 [sbp]
just a small Python CGI: gets a page, fiddles about with it, and then delivers the hash of various parts of the content
23:04:50 [AaronSw]
sounds good
23:04:51 [sbp]
so, for example, it might give the hash of all of the text data on the page
23:04:56 [sbp]
or all of the headers
23:06:08 [AaronSw]
btw, i'd be happy to host mysterylights.com email if you want
23:06:28 [sbp]
thanks for the offer
23:06:48 [sbp]
but my current server has been 99.9% reliable so far...
23:06:54 [AaronSw]
uh uh
23:06:56 [sbp]
"don't fix it if it ain't broke" :-)
23:07:01 [AaronSw]
that's why it went down yesterday?
23:07:03 [AaronSw]
;-)
23:07:09 [sbp]
it went down?
23:07:14 [AaronSw]
yeah, a lot of mail bounced
23:07:32 [sbp]
oh well, I didn't notice
23:09:51 [AaronSw]
i'm quite excited about this new set up: qmail, spamassassin, courier-imap, etc. it's a lot of fun
23:09:56 [AaronSw]
gotta set up djbdns too
23:12:27 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw tries to figure out the name of this song he heardd
23:12:46 [AaronSw]
some oldie, had lyrics like "trapped trapped trapped, you're right where he wants you"
23:14:54 [sbp]
Um...
23:15:21 [sbp]
any more information? approximate year, band/artist, male/female, genere, etc.
23:15:34 [AaronSw]
no.. i just heard it on the radio
23:15:37 [sbp]
* sbp listens to Kashmir
23:15:41 [sbp]
didn't they say who it was?
23:15:53 [AaronSw]
no, don't think so
23:16:06 [AaronSw]
sounded a lot like some of the later beatles songs, but i don't think it was the beatles
23:16:25 [AaronSw]
hmmph, lyrics.ch is down
23:19:48 [sbp]
.google "trapped trapped trapped, you're right where he wants you"
23:19:49 [xena]
no results found.
23:19:55 [AaronSw]
tried that already
23:20:00 [sbp]
was it a male singer, or female?
23:20:07 [AaronSw]
male, i believe
23:20:12 [sbp]
guitar music?
23:20:25 [AaronSw]
yeah, guitars with lots of percussion and background
23:20:37 [sbp]
can you remember any more of the lyrics?
23:20:40 [AaronSw]
.google "trapped trapped trapped" site:lyrics.astraweb.com
23:20:41 [xena]
no results found.
23:21:42 [AaronSw]
not exactly... it was stuff like he know's what he's looking for, and now you're trapped -- they were very hard to make out
23:21:55 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw looks at the radio stations website
23:22:12 [AaronSw]
http://www.wdrv.com/cgi-bin/musiclog/musiclog.cgi
23:23:04 [AaronSw]
well, that helps quite a bit.
23:23:23 [AaronSw]
i think it was around 2
23:27:12 [AaronSw]
"The Real Me" by the Who, perhaps?
23:29:15 [sbp]
I doubt it
23:29:33 [sbp]
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/thewho/therealme.html
23:29:38 [AaronSw]
yeah, i saw
23:32:28 [deltab]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~maroen/engels/lyrics/trappeda.htm ?
23:33:00 [AaronSw]
yeah, that's it!
23:33:13 [AaronSw]
how'd you find it?
23:33:24 [tav]
sbp: i already wrote that
23:33:41 [sbp]
but they didn't play it
23:33:47 [sbp]
wrote what?
23:33:50 [tav]
the content hash thing
23:33:54 [sbp]
oh
23:33:58 [AaronSw]
maybe they switched it and didn't put it in the machine
23:34:25 [sbp]
tav: is it available?
23:34:30 [deltab]
AaronSw: lyrics right where wants
23:34:31 [tav]
i think i finished writing it about 5 minutes after we talked about it
23:34:48 [AaronSw]
hm?
23:34:56 [AaronSw]
.google lyrics right where wants
23:34:57 [xena]
lyrics right where wants: http://www.amiright.com/misheard/index.shtml
23:35:24 [tav]
sbp: yea, i'll release it w/ the finished notefi / worldwidewiki stuff
23:35:25 [deltab]
no
23:35:36 [tav]
also going to setup a usefulshit.espnow.com for stuff like that
23:35:55 [tav]
the elements_and_attributes parser is really cool
23:36:08 [AaronSw]
maybe come up with a uri that won't be blocked by the censorware ;-)
23:36:18 [deltab]
AaronSw: that particular page: lyrics trapped again
23:36:34 [tav]
come up with a better subdomain ?
23:36:39 [AaronSw]
how'd you know to search for again?
23:36:49 [AaronSw]
tav, tools, utilities, cgi, stuff
23:36:54 [deltab]
found it in the 10th result on the previous search
23:37:02 [AaronSw]
ah, cool
23:37:09 [AaronSw]
someday i will learn the secrets
23:37:18 [tav]
hmz
23:37:39 [AaronSw]
who's it by? springsteen?
23:37:48 [sbp]
yep
23:38:06 [AaronSw]
gotta run -- time to head home
23:38:15 [deltab]
(B. Springsteen/J. Lyon/S. Van Zandt)
23:38:16 [sbp]
c'ya
23:39:58 [CygBot]
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23:40:04 [sbp]
$ u hashing
23:40:10 [CygBot]
> stripTags: c01ae0702ffa23e3e7361b48aa74233e
23:40:11 [CygBot]
> getTags: 753a112cc0e8e135fddcfaf5ff559b37
23:40:12 [CygBot]
> getHeadings: 1310f71e9973e65288cbf45af832aada
23:40:13 [CygBot]
> stripComments: 440c3acfccc874c5aa673975b89f2a17
23:40:14 [CygBot]
> stripTagsAndComments: f468ab63c2e6e461a257edf7859730fa
23:40:15 [CygBot]
> stripWhitespace: 4053ce13f020504a538a2cea9a4e6212
23:40:16 [CygBot]
> [...]
23:40:28 [sbp]
ugh, it missed out the uri: http://www.w3.org/
23:41:30 [deltab]
what's that?
23:41:55 [sbp]
a content hashing thing
23:42:06 [sbp]
"shingles"
23:43:03 [sbp]
to measure structural equivalence
23:43:57 [tav]
*sigh*
23:44:24 [tav]
well, it'd be interesting to see alternative implementations at least
23:44:40 [sbp]
well, you didn't give me the code :-)
23:44:47 [sbp]
and it only takes a few minutes
23:45:02 [tav]
*nod*
23:48:53 [CygBot]
CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:55:04 [sbp]
hooray! I just rehashed cnn.com, and got stuff like:-
23:55:04 [sbp]
getTags: 57867af58215178d148cf3b40fe0505d
23:55:04 [sbp]
getTags: a8c1a6d95842596815df997493f846f6
23:55:04 [sbp]
getHeadings: d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
23:55:04 [sbp]
getHeadings: d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
23:56:34 [sbp]
summary:-
23:56:34 [sbp]
stripTags: different; getTags: different; getHeadings: same;
23:56:34 [sbp]
stripComments: same; stripTagsAndComments: same; stripWhitespace:
23:56:34 [sbp]
different; stripAll: same; getAttributes: different
23:57:17 [sbp]
Hmm... how can getTags be different, but stripComments remains the same?
23:58:16 [sbp]
ah, possible RegExp slip-up
23:58:36 [tav]
ewww
23:58:47 [sbp]
what?
23:58:55 [tav]
don't use re
23:59:02 [sbp]
re's great!
23:59:08 [tav]
subclass sgmlparser
23:59:14 [sbp]
Eeek! No way
23:59:32 [tav]
why not?
23:59:33 [sbp]
as if people really put decent SGML on the Web