IRC log of swhack on 2002-01-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:03 [hazmat]

is it tied to mithril?

00:00:11 [sbp]

Hmm... that's not it :-)

00:00:20 [sbp]

ah http://www.best.com/~mccusker/irondoc/irondoc.htm

00:00:27 [AaronSw]

no, irondoc is vaporware

00:00:38 [deltab]

now http://www.treedragon.com/ged/fe/fe.htm

00:01:01 [AaronSw]

" IronDoc currently has the status of vaporware, and has held this explicitly noted status since the middle of 1997, so this situation is not new."

00:01:20 [sbp]

Ooh, I remember you talking about IronDoc ages ago

00:01:29 [AaronSw]

Yeah, and danbri ages before that.

00:01:57 [AaronSw]

irondoc has quite a history

00:03:22 [AaronSw]

Heh: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#08jan02

00:04:01 [hazmat]

looks like irondoc has been designed into the ground.

00:04:10 [sbp]

heh

00:04:21 [sbp]

at "Previously we resolved the conflict by not celebrating mine"

00:04:26 [sbp]

ooh, forgot the period!

00:04:29 [sbp]

at "Previously we resolved the conflict by not celebrating mine."

00:04:35 [sbp]

I do apologize

00:04:36 [AaronSw]

heh at "1 in 365 of course"

00:04:37 [hazmat]

thats interesting i was talking to one of the people listed there about applying workflow to parsedxml. dethra of burning tiger.

00:05:06 [AaronSw]

irondoc has a lot of history: Mozilla, Netscape, Apple's OpenDoc, etc.

00:06:48 [hazmat]

but its vaporware, regardless of its history... although it seems to have influenced some people/projects.

00:07:43 [AaronSw]

to tav, from the yet-another-zope-replacement dept. http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/

00:08:06 [sbp]

Heard of Apache?

00:08:18 [AaronSw]

No, is that some sort of helicopter?

00:08:25 [sbp]

well... yes...

00:08:56 [AaronSw]

interesting: "free license Commented source code for Mithril and IronDoc will be copyrighted, but free for any use without restriction. Uncommented source code will be public domain. Notice a careful separation between what software does and what it means."

00:09:33 [hazmat]

i had an interesting discussion yesterday about free software licenses and community on #zope

00:09:44 [AaronSw]

Oh?

00:10:14 [hazmat]

* hazmat is looking for an archive link

00:10:56 [AaronSw]

i thought what lisa and diane said was funny: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#06jan02-crazier

00:12:20 [hazmat]

http://irclogs.espnow.com/zope-logs/show_file.php?logfile=2002_01_09.log

00:12:35 [hazmat]

between the jester, myself, and webmaven

00:13:05 [hazmat]

starting aroung 05:50

00:14:00 [AaronSw]

hmm

00:14:16 [sbp]

* sbp adds a bit more code to browser.py - it's addictive!

00:15:28 [sbp]

Hmm... if I'm going to do it properly, I need to factor out the HTML Parser, don't I? But I don't wanna!

00:16:58 [AaronSw]

TheJester seems pretty reasonable

00:23:08 [hazmat]

he is. he's a bsd advocate.

00:23:37 [hazmat]

i'm curious how patents affect free software.

00:23:56 [sbp]

RDF is free :-)

00:23:58 [hazmat]

i started reading through the fsf material after the discussion.

00:24:12 [hazmat]

voicexml is patent encumbered though.

00:25:05 [AaronSw]

a bsd advoacate. bleech

00:25:21 [AaronSw]

software patents suck

00:25:26 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.scripting.com/stories/2002/01/09/kevinKellyTheWebRunsOnLoveNotGreed.html

00:25:31 [chumpster]

A: Kevin Kelly: The Web Runs on Love, Not Greed from AaronSw

00:25:51 [AaronSw]

A::"High-profile portal sites like Yahoo and AOL will continue to consolidate and demand our attention (and maybe make some money), while millions of smaller sites and hundreds of millions of users do the heavy work of creating content that is used and linked. These will be paid entirely in the gift economy."

00:25:52 [chumpster]

commented item A

00:28:01 [hazmat]

it was good to have the discussion, cause i haven't really challenged my free software beliefs. bbiab.

00:28:52 [sbp]

Hmm... I think I'm less left-wing than I used to be. Is that good or not, d'ya reckon?

00:29:35 [AaronSw]

A::Reminds me of [The People's Net|http://yil.com/features/feature.asp?volume=07&issue=07&keyword=peoplesnet] by Ruskoff.

00:29:36 [chumpster]

commented item A

00:29:40 [AaronSw]

good, of course. :)

00:29:45 [sbp]

:-)

00:30:01 [AaronSw]

do you mean left wing or lower wing?

00:30:20 [sbp]

lower wing?

00:30:28 [AaronSw]

yeah, as in the political compass

00:30:37 [AaronSw]

lower wing is libertarian

00:30:43 [AaronSw]

upper is authoritarian

00:30:58 [sbp]

ah

00:31:18 [sbp]

Er... I think I'm about the same on that axis, but less left wing

00:31:21 [AaronSw]

i disklike folks who use mailing lists as chat forums.

00:31:36 [AaronSw]

but you just said you were more left wing

00:31:40 [sbp]

you disk like them? Is disk a verb?

00:31:45 [sbp]

<sbp> Hmm... I think I'm less left-wing than I used to be. Is that good or not, d'ya reckon?

00:31:46 [AaronSw]

:-)

00:31:55 [AaronSw]

oops, i misread that.

00:31:58 [AaronSw]

bad, of course.

00:31:59 [sbp]

heh, heh

00:32:09 [sbp]

Yeah, well you're as left as they get

00:32:15 [AaronSw]

Heh.

00:32:40 [AaronSw]

Your arguments about the Euro demonstrated that you've been brainwashed by the conservative British media.

00:32:43 [sbp]

To you, Tony Benn is an authoritarian conservative :-)

00:32:45 [deltab]

sbp: it is: v : draw a harrow over (land) [syn: {harrow}]

00:32:57 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

00:33:00 [sbp]

disk? great

00:33:18 [sbp]

I argued about the Euro?

00:33:26 [sbp]

Oh right, I guess I did

00:33:39 [sbp]

I don't listen to the conservative British media. They're rather silly

00:33:39 [AaronSw]

Must be too much BBC 24

00:34:30 [sbp]

Dunno where I got it from

00:34:57 [AaronSw]

Doid explained to me that the Euro is a political, not an economic thing.

00:35:04 [AaronSw]

Which makes sense.

00:35:16 [sbp]

Yeah, sure

00:35:21 [AaronSw]

But now I'm not sure I like it, since it's all about globalization.

00:35:43 [AaronSw]

I mean, if you unify the european governments into one, there's not going to be much hope for diversity

00:36:03 [AaronSw]

hmm, i wish i knew where my political compass score was.

00:36:05 [sbp]

My problem with it is that it seems to involve countries whose economic policies don't tradionally fit with one anothers

00:36:13 [sbp]

Do the test again

00:36:18 [AaronSw]

It was so long...

00:36:30 [sbp]

Pff, didn't take more than five minutes

00:36:39 [sbp]

Perhaps you're undecided :-)

00:36:48 [sbp]

er... indecisive

00:37:15 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh.

00:37:20 [AaronSw]

OK, I'm taking it again.

00:37:42 [sbp]

Good, good

00:37:46 [sbp]

* sbp digs out his score

00:38:13 [sbp]

[[[

00:38:13 [sbp]

Economic Left/Right: -2.13

00:38:14 [sbp]

Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.21

00:38:14 [sbp]

]]]

00:38:26 [AaronSw]

.wn protectionism

00:38:28 [xena]

protectionism defined as:

00:38:29 [xena]

- n : the policy of imposing duties or quotas on imports in order to protect home industries from overseas competition

00:39:05 [sbp]

Interesting issue

00:39:22 [AaronSw]

Argh, how am i supposed to know what they mean by "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."

00:39:30 [AaronSw]

Is that in the Islamic or Jewish sense?

00:39:35 [sbp]

Yeah, some of the questions were crappily vague

00:39:45 [AaronSw]

I'll assume Islamic.

00:39:51 [sbp]

And they didn't let you do neutral

00:39:57 [deltab]

Draconian

00:40:13 [AaronSw]

.wn draconian

00:40:14 [xena]

Draconian defined as:

00:40:15 [xena]

- adj : of or relating to Draco or his harsh code of laws; "Draconian measures" [syn: {Draconian}]

00:40:19 [AaronSw]

ok

00:40:23 [sbp]

if I was neutral on an issue, the next time I'd come across a question I was neutral on, I score it the other way

00:40:46 [deltab]

are there differing Islamic and Jewish sense?

00:41:12 [AaronSw]

do you mean senses?

00:41:17 [AaronSw]

Heh! "Good parents sometimes have to spank their children, to teach them right from wrong."

00:41:18 [deltab]

yes

00:41:49 [AaronSw]

Probably differening positions of it in Islam, but Judaism's position is pretty clear.

00:41:58 [AaronSw]

(i.e. it means an eye for the value of an eye)

00:43:33 [sbp]

erm... I think you mean the value of an eye for an eye

00:44:02 [AaronSw]

err, something like that ;)

00:44:13 [sbp]

Never write a statute

00:45:12 [AaronSw]

[[[

00:45:13 [AaronSw]

Economic Left/Right: -5.00

00:45:13 [AaronSw]

Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.72

00:45:14 [AaronSw]

]]]

00:45:20 [AaronSw]

heh heh heh

00:45:24 [sbp]

wow

00:45:41 [AaronSw]

i wonder why i'm so far right

00:46:08 [sbp]

I was wondering that

00:46:16 [AaronSw]

ok, time for dinner.

00:46:19 [sbp]

c'ya

00:46:23 [AaronSw]

c'ya

00:46:51 [sbp]

Pff, Aaron's gone all Libertarian on us

00:47:18 [sbp]

or as the policical compass says "anarchy"

00:47:37 [em-mit]

em-mit has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))

00:47:44 [sbp]

i.e. anarchic

00:48:49 [sbp]

* sbp starts to read up on TKInter again

00:48:59 [sbp]

Hmm... I really don't like TKinter; can't get into it

01:02:18 [sbp]

OTOH, IDLE is wonderful

01:03:23 [hazmat]

wingide rulz

01:03:29 [hazmat]

:)

01:03:41 [sbp]

.google wingide

01:03:43 [xena]

wingide: http://www.archaeopteryx.com

01:04:07 [hazmat]

i've stopped using emacs for python dev because of it. saves so much typing. much nicer than komodo for python dev. the source browser is excellent for looking at new packages that your exploring.

01:05:15 [sbp]

heh: """Wing IDE is written primarily in Python, so it's easy to debug (with itself)""" - http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide/hilites

01:07:28 [tav]

hazmat: you actually used komodo?

01:08:11 [AaronSw]

i'm a total anarchist!

01:08:27 [sbp]

argh! it returns

01:08:59 [sbp]

Aaron, write a GUI interface for browser.py

01:09:03 [sbp]

Put it on your TODO list

01:09:07 [AaronSw]

Heh heh

01:09:20 [tav]

you could use espygui ;p

01:09:22 [sbp]

Aw... I was serious :-)

01:09:28 [sbp]

.google espygui

01:09:29 [xena]

no results found.

01:09:29 [AaronSw]

I tried to modify some of ?!ng's TK stuff for rdf graph visualization, but it's too confusing

01:09:33 [hazmat]

tav: i got a free commercial license from AS

01:09:41 [sbp]

Pff, it doesn't exist according to Google

01:09:51 [AaronSw]

it doesn't exist

01:09:53 [AaronSw]

period

01:09:55 [AaronSw]

:-)

01:09:57 [tav]

liar

01:10:02 [hazmat]

tav: plus i was working with developers on windoze at the time so it helped to have a common dev env.

01:10:03 [tav]

you lie so fucking much AaronSw

01:10:07 [AaronSw]

well, it exists in tav's head

01:10:17 [AaronSw]

apologies

01:10:21 [tav]

i have a dll here that says you are a liar

01:10:40 [AaronSw]

I'd like to hear it say that.

01:10:49 [AaronSw]

I didn't know you built in text to speech!

01:10:54 [AaronSw]

:-)

01:10:57 [sbp]

and AI

01:10:59 [hazmat]

tav: i found it more interesting as an example of using the mozilla arch to create cross platform apps.

01:11:06 [tav]

ah

01:11:09 [tav]

it's a good xul app

01:11:18 [tav]

i used it to learn a lot of xul

01:11:32 [AaronSw]

tav, you need to learn the difference between lying and not being omniscient.

01:11:41 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:11:51 [AaronSw]

just because you...

01:11:53 [tav]

but, as to practically being useful by itself...

01:12:04 [tav]

--

01:12:04 [tav]

<AaronSw> it doesn't exist

01:12:05 [tav]

<AaronSw> period

01:12:05 [tav]

--

01:12:35 [tav]

you should then say "it doesn't exist afaik" or somewhat

01:13:02 [AaronSw]

set your client up to add an afaik, fwiw, ianal after everything i say

01:13:31 [tav]

no, the <AaronSw> period is what i have qualms with

01:13:48 [tav]

you just don't go around spreading lies like that

01:14:06 [AaronSw]

sheesh

01:14:14 [AaronSw]

it wasn't like you weren't here to correct me

01:14:23 [AaronSw]

and the period was to distinguish between not being on google

01:16:44 [AaronSw]

where's that espian compass thing?

01:16:57 [tav]

.google espian political compass

01:16:59 [xena]

no results found.

01:17:19 [tav]

logster, grep espian-political

01:18:04 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'espian-political'

01:18:05 [logster]

0) 2002-01-10 01:17:19 <tav> logster, grep espian-political

01:18:09 [tav]

hmz

01:18:16 [tav]

logster, grep espians-political

01:18:25 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'espians-political'

01:18:26 [logster]

0) 2002-01-10 01:18:16 <tav> logster, grep espians-political

01:18:27 [logster]

1) 2002-01-06 20:52:30 <tav`> http://mu2.espnow.com/~talon/html/espians-political-views-graphical.htm

01:18:28 [logster]

2) 2002-01-06 20:51:54 <tav`> espians-political-views-graphical.htm

01:20:14 [AaronSw]

wow, i'm right next to tav

01:20:22 [sbp]

Ooh! Poor you

01:20:23 [tav]

* tav runs

01:20:24 [sbp]

:-)

01:20:33 [tav]

what's your score?

01:20:35 [sbp]

the "you" was directed at either one of you

01:20:42 [tav]

lol

01:20:43 [sbp]

<AaronSw> [[[

01:20:44 [sbp]

<AaronSw> Economic Left/Right: -5.00

01:20:44 [sbp]

<AaronSw> Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.72

01:20:44 [sbp]

<AaronSw> ]]]

01:20:44 [AaronSw]

Economic Left/Right: -5.00

01:20:44 [AaronSw]

Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.72

01:20:48 [sbp]

blargh

01:20:54 [AaronSw]

tav-4.69-8.12

01:21:22 [sbp]

wow, you're more extreme than tav

01:21:30 [AaronSw]

heh!

01:23:23 [AaronSw]

IIP should be plexified

01:23:26 [sbp]

.google 0x90

01:23:27 [AaronSw]

IIP: http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip

01:23:28 [xena]

0x90: http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/ntfs/attributes/index_root.html

01:23:37 [sbp]

Yeah

01:24:26 [sbp]

0x90: """This is the root node of the B+ tree that implements an index (e.g. a directory).""". Er yeah. Of course

01:24:29 [AaronSw]

IIP: http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip

01:24:32 [AaronSw]

.google IIP

01:24:34 [xena]

IIP: http://usinfo.state.gov

01:25:53 [tav]

iip should not be plexified

01:25:57 [tav]

iip is a stupid idea

01:26:11 [AaronSw]

why?

01:26:16 [AaronSw]

we're all about plexified anonymous irc

01:26:28 [tav]

why irc?

01:26:32 [AaronSw]

.wn plexification

01:26:34 [sbp]

IRC is just another protocol that can sit on the Plex

01:26:44 [AaronSw]

yeah, why not?

01:26:49 [sbp]

You put out a bit of data, someone else scoops it up

01:26:57 [sbp]

that's the Plex all over

01:27:19 [sbp]

and if you digitally encrypt it, then you have secure channels

01:27:39 [tav]

iip is just a lousy form of cryptobox

01:27:51 [sbp]

.google cryptobox

01:27:52 [xena]

cryptobox: http://cryptobox.sourceforge.net

01:27:54 [AaronSw]

tav's in a grumpy mood, it seems

01:28:39 [tav]

quite true

01:29:00 [tav]

but, point still stands

01:29:25 [tav]

if people didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel the everytime, we'd be so much further along

01:30:04 [sbp]

it's O.K. reinventing the wheel as long as you come up with a better wheel

01:30:19 [sbp]

of course, that didn't happen to the actual wheel until mag. rims

01:30:34 [AaronSw]

i disagree with tav

01:30:55 [tav]

sbp: but most often than not, in attempting to reinvent the wheel people create fucking squares

01:31:01 [sbp]

yeah

01:31:03 [tav]

now playing Themes - A Team.alt

01:31:16 [sbp]

hey, take it to #nowplaying :-)

01:31:20 [tav]

fuck you

01:31:23 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

01:31:47 [tav]

i used to love this show

01:31:55 [AaronSw]

what's TPSFKARM - The Postal Service Formerly Known As Royal Mail called now?

01:32:01 [AaronSw]

it seemed to be called royal mail when i was there

01:32:06 [tav]

consignia

01:32:07 [sbp]

Yeah, it was many people's 80's favourite

01:32:09 [deltab]

'Consignia'

01:32:21 [AaronSw]

where'd they get a stupid name like that?

01:32:23 [sbp]

Yep. Odd name, I reckon

01:32:25 [AaronSw]

did they privatize it or somehting?

01:32:29 [sbp]

Computer generated, I believe

01:32:30 [tav]

stupid fucked up idiots

01:32:31 [sbp]

Privatize: yep

01:32:40 [AaronSw]

Stupid Jeffrey Mamet.

01:33:26 [sbp]

Every time we privatize something in the U.K., we think "ooh, that's good, we'll get better service", but instead it just sucks even more

01:33:32 [tav]

if i die, before i'm 27

01:33:46 [tav]

someone please carry things out to the end, and change the world for me

01:33:59 [sbp]

Aaron will

01:34:01 [AaronSw]

yeah, thus the Jeffrey Mamet quip, sbp.

01:34:06 [AaronSw]

sbp, yeah, right.

01:34:23 [AaronSw]

i thought it was going to take 5 years, tav.

01:34:37 [AaronSw]

</sarcasm>

01:35:17 [sbp]

Jeffrey Mamet?

01:35:36 [AaronSw]

Didn't you see that hilarious documentary on channel 4?

01:35:43 [tav]

urgh tv

01:35:52 [AaronSw]

what else will you do in london?

01:35:53 [sbp]

Obviously not

01:35:54 [AaronSw]

:-)

01:36:03 [AaronSw]

it was pretty funny

01:37:02 [AaronSw]

Interviewer: So privatizing the rail will make it faster and more reliable?

01:37:03 [AaronSw]

Mamet: Well... folks will have a choice of trains... we'll put them all on the track and they can bump into each other and fight it out

01:37:03 [AaronSw]

Interviewer: So consumers get more choice?

01:37:03 [AaronSw]

Mamet: Well... they can get on a train, enjoy themselves, and maybe -- just maybe go somewhere.

01:37:06 [AaronSw]

--

01:37:41 [AaronSw]

Interviewer: So as an adviser to the government, did you give them good advice?

01:37:41 [AaronSw]

Mamet: Of course, I don't think I ever gave them a piece of advice that didn't help me in some way.

01:37:41 [AaronSw]

--

01:37:59 [sbp]

heh, heh

01:38:07 [tav]

heh

01:38:14 [sbp]

no, tav

01:38:21 [tav]

hmz?

01:38:21 [sbp]

it worth worth a double "heh"

01:38:23 [sbp]

not single

01:38:31 [tav]

i don't do double hehs

01:38:31 [AaronSw]

it was a really funny show

01:38:41 [tav]

i do 'heh', 'hehe', 'hehehe'

01:38:54 [sbp]

ah. Well, it's probably a "hehe" on your scale, then

01:39:06 [sbp]

but I'm not sure. It's difficult to translate

01:39:20 [sbp]

s/it/it's/

01:39:30 [AaronSw]

heh, heh: http://maur.espnow.com/files/Salutations_from_Maur_and_ESPgod.avi

01:39:33 [tav]

just use .translate dek-eng

01:39:49 [AaronSw]

note the two hehs.

01:39:56 [sbp]

thanks

01:39:56 [AaronSw]

such a large file tho

01:40:06 [tav]

wtf is it with the hehs ?

01:40:36 [tav]

hmz, coming onto irc hasn't been inspiring today

01:40:36 [sbp]

we like discussing them. It's one of the primary aims of #swhack

01:40:51 [sbp]

go someplace else, then

01:40:52 [AaronSw]

you haven't exactly been very inspired.

01:40:52 [tav]

hmz, how do you deal with death?

01:41:12 [AaronSw]

ah, it all makes sense now

01:41:14 [sbp]

we don't tend to discuss that here. Try #esp

01:41:45 [tav]

anette's there, it'd depress her

01:42:35 [sbp]

Hmm...

01:43:12 [sbp]

I suppose that #swhack is a refuge/escape/shelter from the drugery and senselessness of the modern era

01:43:17 [tav]

for someone whose so at ease with his own death, i fucking suck at handling others' death

01:43:21 [sbp]

er... drudgery

01:43:33 [tav]

swhack is what?

01:43:39 [sbp]

a refuge/escape/shelter from the drugery and senselessness of the modern era

01:43:48 [AaronSw]

so who died?

01:44:14 [tav]

* tav wonders if he lives in the same world as sbp

01:44:16 [AaronSw]

if you don't mind

01:44:26 [sbp]

Probably not

01:44:29 [AaronSw]

me asking

01:44:31 [tav]

an old friend of mine

01:44:44 [tav]

not too old, late 50s, cancer

01:45:07 [AaronSw]

sorry to hear it.

01:45:29 [sbp]

* sbp too; always is

01:45:29 [AaronSw]

well, suicide is always an option. but generally i just carry a towel around with me for a day...

01:45:56 [sbp]

Hmm... hadn't thought of that

01:46:09 [sbp]

that's what I'm missing! a towel

01:46:09 [tav]

argh

01:46:13 [AaronSw]

That's the last major death I can think of...

01:47:39 [hazmat]

AaronSw: is that managing gigabytes book a good read?

01:47:46 [tav]

now playing DJ Krust & Saul Williams -

01:48:00 [AaronSw]

hazmat, dunno. haven't gotten very far

01:48:04 [tav]

hmz, have you heard from oierw?

01:48:13 [AaronSw]

no, have you heard from his parents?

01:48:42 [tav]

http://www.heavensfantasy.com/cool/

01:48:50 [sbp]

You should go down the road and visit him

01:49:24 [AaronSw]

i should, but i'd like to coordinate first

01:49:50 [sbp]

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01:53:36 [sbp]

I've had this on my clipboard for a while, I need the space back:-

01:53:37 [sbp]

[[[

01:53:38 [sbp]

You're just sucking up the P2P/decentralization/anonymity projects, aren't you? I certainly can't accuse you of not researching your background onformation, or getting the right people on board

01:53:39 [sbp]

]]]

01:53:59 [AaronSw]

to tav, i assume?

01:54:04 [AaronSw]

i can accuse him of the latter. ;-)

01:54:13 [sbp]

no, do you ya dipstick

01:54:20 [sbp]

er... "to you"

01:54:23 [AaronSw]

ah

01:54:32 [sbp]

man, what is it with my typing lately?

01:54:33 [AaronSw]

oh, in that case i accuse myself

01:54:40 [AaronSw]

doesn't make it true, tho

01:55:19 [sbp]

Good writing is often defined as "the right words in the right places". I seem to be putting random words in places random

01:55:27 [AaronSw]

heh

02:08:48 [AaronSw]

there are a bunch of typos in the math of this chord paper.

02:10:01 [AaronSw]

which make it hard to understand

02:10:09 [AaronSw]

like -s where they mean +s

02:11:04 [AaronSw]

oh, never mind -- that's he sucky font

02:11:08 [AaronSw]

wow.

02:11:37 [sbp]

that's he? wow?

02:11:58 [AaronSw]

the, he, same difference

02:12:13 [AaronSw]

it appears to be #swhack typo day

02:12:44 [sbp]

sbp has changed the topic to: It's ypo day on #swhack!

02:13:07 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: Hapy ypo day!

02:13:23 [sbp]

I prefered mine, but heh

02:13:40 [AaronSw]

I was afraid #swhack will confuse our weblog readers

02:13:53 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has changed the topic to: It's ypo day!

02:13:56 [sbp]

Well, we could typo all of the weblog items too

02:14:04 [AaronSw]

Yeah.

02:14:07 [sbp]

:-)

02:14:14 [AaronSw]

don't we do that already?

02:15:30 [AaronSw]

hey, this chord paper is making sense now!

02:17:14 [sbp]

really?

02:18:04 [AaronSw]

yeah, took long enough

02:56:45 [sbp]

What did?

03:06:18 [AaronSw]

understanding chord

03:06:32 [AaronSw]

"Where do you come from? Where do you go? Sorry, but that is nothing you would need to know."

03:07:18 [sbp]

Ooh!

03:07:30 [AaronSw]

:-)

03:07:35 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is listening to Love and Theft

03:07:40 [sbp]

Hooray!

03:07:46 [tav]

AaronSw: did you send xena to #openprojects ?

03:07:54 [AaronSw]

probably

03:08:08 [tav]

seems there's a no-bot law there and in #linpeople

03:08:15 [AaronSw]

hmm

03:08:22 [AaronSw]

did it get kicked?

03:08:33 [deltab]

banned

03:08:51 [tav]

dit it get banned?

03:09:22 [AaronSw]

i don't see it in the banned list

03:09:33 [tav]

me neither

03:09:47 [tav]

well, lilo msg'd me and i told it to leave the chan

03:10:10 [AaronSw]

i'm taking it out of the autojoin list

03:10:17 [tav]

cheers

03:10:40 [AaronSw]

what's the rationale for the no-bot rule?

03:11:32 [tav]

--

03:11:32 [tav]

<lilo> it's just a long standing tradition

03:11:33 [tav]

<lilo> if we change it for one bot we will probably end up with a raft of them, most less useful 8)

03:11:34 [tav]

--

03:11:45 [deltab]

not banned now, but it was

03:12:06 [tav]

oh

03:12:13 [tav]

by whom and why?

03:12:26 [tav]

i can guess the why, but what led to it?

03:12:36 [AaronSw]

we can just create a botindisguise to listen in :)

03:13:17 [tav]

heh

03:13:19 [deltab]

024643Z <b0rk:#openprojects> trelane ok .say come out in black and .act is like

03:13:19 [deltab]

in purple

03:13:19 [deltab]

024740Z <trelane:#openprojects> .act should be action

03:13:19 [deltab]

024740Z <trelane:#openprojects> I dunno

03:13:19 [deltab]

024741Z <trelane:#openprojects> your client must be b0rked :p

03:13:19 [deltab]

024801Z <trelane:#openprojects> -xena- unauthorized: not registered

03:13:21 [deltab]

024805Z <trelane:#openprojects> FUCKING BOT

03:13:23 [deltab]

024806Z <trelane:#openprojects> ban that

03:13:31 [AaronSw]

heh heh

03:14:11 [tav]

fucking kirch

03:14:36 [AaronSw]

which soon devolved into spanking and biting

03:14:55 [tav]

i'm actually into a lot of biting during sex

03:15:28 [AaronSw]

heh: <trelane/#openprojects> MysticOne: don't look now but they're really insidious clones sent by microsoft to undermine the network

03:15:36 [AaronSw]

[re: the large number of people here from mewtwo]

03:15:47 [tav]

heh

03:15:59 [tav]

where's that from? xena logs?

03:16:04 [AaronSw]

yeah

03:16:31 [AaronSw]

xena should only respond to "<nick>, " IMO.

03:16:47 [tav]

that's been reserved for the AI module

03:16:57 [AaronSw]

pflargle

03:17:25 [sbp]

heh, you're getting too much like me

03:17:28 [AaronSw]

did you know that saying the word AI causes your aaronRank to go way down.

03:17:37 [deltab]

have the AI decide what's a command and what isn't

03:17:40 [tav]

do i care about my aaronRank ?

03:17:54 [AaronSw]

i dunno, why're you asking me? ask the ai module

03:18:45 [tav]

that traitor deltab! pointing me out straight away!

03:18:57 [AaronSw]

heh heh.

03:19:10 [AaronSw]

xena should connect from tidal1.microsoft.com

03:19:20 [AaronSw]

or whatever it's called

03:19:24 [AaronSw]

then no one will know :)

03:19:40 [deltab]

tide

03:20:25 [AaronSw]

I figured it was named for "the Internet Tidal Wave"

03:23:16 [AaronSw]

blargh, the Chord protocol is Sun RPC?

03:24:22 [sbp]

heh!

03:24:51 [sbp]

heh, this is good:-

03:24:52 [AaronSw]

One thing that's a little weird is this paper cites another Chord paper, but instead of listing the authors it says "Authors elided for anonymity."

03:24:53 [sbp]

[[[

03:24:53 [sbp]

How do I protect my sighting of Elvis?

03:24:53 [sbp]

Copyright law does not protect sightings. However, copyright law will protect your photo (or other depiction) of your sighting of Elvis. Just send it to us with a form VA application and the $30 filing fee. No one can lawfully use your photo of your sighting, although someone else may file his own photo of his sighting. Copyright law protects the original photograph, not the subject of the photograph.

03:24:58 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.loc.gov/copyright/faq.html

03:25:27 [AaronSw]

Elvis: Keeping our government in the green

03:25:35 [tav]

heh

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04:20:18 [sbp]

Argh, I want to violate WCAG!

04:20:36 [sbp]

I've got a design going, but it's really inconsistent

04:21:05 [sbp]

the main/home page has a dark background and light text, and all of the others are inverted

04:21:18 [sbp]

it's hardly consistent... but is it confusing?

04:21:41 [sbp]

Argh, man, that's so annoying

04:24:16 [sbp]

Aha

04:24:24 [sbp]

I can make them "preferred" stylesheets

04:24:27 [sbp]

Heh, heh, heh

04:24:47 [sbp]

"""To make a style sheet preferred, set the rel attribute to "stylesheet" and name the style sheet with the title attribute.""" - http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/styles

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10:47:40 [tav]

AaronSw: bitch!

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12:38:40 [AaronSw]

what'd i do now, tav?

12:46:52 [AaronSw]

Whoa, this is so not fair. HP Labs is building the "hyperplex, a cluster of intelligent computing devices".

12:47:12 [AaronSw]

http://www.hpl.hp.com/news/2001/oct-dec/planetary.html

12:49:53 [tav]

welcome to my world

12:50:34 [AaronSw]

so you just felt like yelling at someone?

12:50:47 [tav]

oh, no

12:50:55 [tav]

that was to get your attention

12:51:06 [tav]

downloaded office x yet?

12:51:11 [tav]

i believe you have

12:51:13 [AaronSw]

yeah

13:14:39 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/archive/5140.html

13:14:43 [chumpster]

B: Good to know. from AaronSw

13:14:48 [AaronSw]

B:|"orangutan popcorn fishwife"

13:14:49 [chumpster]

titled item B

13:20:14 [AaronSw]

B::via [Mark|http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/2002/01/08], [Fark|http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=95364], [0xdeadbeef|http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/], [/dev/null|http://autonomous.org/dev/null/], [Chris|http://www.dogfish.org/chris/]

13:20:16 [chumpster]

commented item B

13:21:25 [AaronSw]

B::([Google link|http://www.google.com/search?q=orangutan%20popcorn%20fishwife], for the lazy ones)

13:21:26 [chumpster]

commented item B

13:23:11 [tansaku]

tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))

13:25:47 [AaronSw]

B::Ooh, but I can take the lead with [plesh fishwife|http://supportmacslashnow@www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plesh+fishwife] yielding 0 hits.

13:25:49 [chumpster]

commented item B

13:26:24 [AaronSw]

for the record:

13:26:28 [AaronSw]

.google plesh fishwife

13:26:29 [xena]

no results found.

13:28:23 [AaronSw]

B::Hmm, the words have to be "common" he says. I guess the obsolete [plesh|http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=plesh] doesn't count then.

13:28:24 [chumpster]

commented item B

13:30:32 [AaronSw]

B::Ok, so how about [tariser hypermedia|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tarsier+hypermedia]?

13:30:33 [chumpster]

commented item B

13:30:36 [AaronSw]

.google tarsier hypermedia

13:30:38 [xena]

no results found.

13:31:58 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw emails brooks

13:36:32 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,49612,00.html

13:37:03 [chumpster]

C: 'New' IMac Online Last Year from AaronSw

13:37:45 [AaronSw]

C::A [Belgian web designer|http://www.wired.com/news/gallery/0,2072,49612-2765~2764,00.html] claims to have [designed the iLamp|http://www.wired.com/news/gallery/0,2072,49612-2767~2766,00.html] last year.

13:37:46 [chumpster]

commented item C

13:38:21 [AaronSw]

C::"The design was logical. They made a cube and a tower. I was sure they would make something spherical. I know them too well."

13:38:22 [chumpster]

commented item C

13:53:32 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0740721909/ref=ase_coolbooks02/

13:53:37 [chumpster]

D: Amazon.com: buying info: God's Debris: A Thought Experiment from AaronSw

13:53:57 [AaronSw]

D:|God's Debris: A Thought Experiment

13:53:58 [chumpster]

titled item D

13:55:36 [AaronSw]

D::Cory [has found|http://boingboing.net/2002_01_01_archive.html#8515113] a nice quote from it.

13:55:36 [chumpster]

commented item D

14:06:03 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/07/saving_usenet/print.html

14:06:07 [chumpster]

E: Salon.com Technology | The geeks who saved Usenet from AaronSw

14:06:20 [AaronSw]

E::With a link to [the first post in Google's archive|http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/07/saving_usenet/print.html].

14:06:21 [chumpster]

commented item E

14:06:55 [AaronSw]

E::Ooops. Here's [the first post in google's archive|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=anews.Aucbarpa.111].

14:06:56 [chumpster]

commented item E

15:16:04 [ThreaT]

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15:52:03 [atariboy]

atariboy is now known as atariBed

16:29:48 [sbp]

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16:30:24 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw posts to comp.lang.python

16:31:12 [AaronSw]

heh, cool graph: http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/

16:37:16 [sbp]

Ooh, they like the word actually: """This graph shows the actual traffic on comp.lang.python, or actually the actual Python mailing list, which in fact has been existing a lot longer than the actual newsgroup actually."""

16:37:35 [sbp]

But yeah, it is a cool graph :-)

16:39:10 [AaronSw]

@ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/080836.html

16:39:17 [chumpster]

F: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/080836.html from AaronSw

16:39:25 [AaronSw]

F:|PEP 214 - Why not print >> string?

16:39:26 [chumpster]

titled item F

16:39:45 [AaronSw]

F::A request to the Python List for allowing pring >> to work on strings.

16:39:46 [chumpster]

commented item F

16:43:03 [sbp]

F::cf. [http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0214.html|PEP214], which is an excellent idea to extend the Python print statement to print to any object with a write() method. Roll on Python 2.3

16:43:04 [chumpster]

commented item F

16:43:35 [AaronSw]

Umm, it's already implemented.

16:44:39 [sbp]

oh

16:44:43 [sbp]

kick-ass!

16:44:44 [AaronSw]

F::It [was implemented|http://www.amk.ca/python/2.0/index.html#SECTION0001010000000000000000] in 2.0.

16:44:45 [chumpster]

commented item F

16:45:27 [AaronSw]

F::I'm really eager for [PEP 215|http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0215.html] which allows the $varname syntax from Perl and Tcl to be used in Python.

16:45:28 [chumpster]

commented item F

16:45:38 [sbp]

F::[Sound of me re-reading the Python manuals]

16:45:39 [chumpster]

commented item F

16:45:51 [sbp]

ugh, why would you want 215?

16:46:13 [AaronSw]

Because i'm sick of ' + foo + '?

16:46:37 [AaronSw]

and i can't stand % blargitty.

16:46:52 [sbp]

Hmm... fair enough

16:47:22 [AaronSw]

I guess the problem wouldn't be so serious if the print >> string thing was introduced.

16:47:25 [AaronSw]

Still print $'References to $a: $sys.getrefcount(a)' is nice.

16:49:28 [AaronSw]

Heh! Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

16:49:56 [AaronSw]

- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/7111

16:55:43 [AaronSw]

Heh, here's a bad URL: https://domain.com?email=aswartz@upclink.com

16:55:52 [AaronSw]

Doesn't do what they expected, I'm sure. :)

16:56:11 [sbp]

it doesn't do anything

16:56:15 [AaronSw]

sure it does.

16:56:26 [AaronSw]

it goes to upclink.com.

16:56:36 [sbp]

no it doesn't

16:56:42 [AaronSw]

well, it does on my browser

16:57:24 [deltab]

yep, upclink.com with username domain.com?email=aswartz

16:57:46 [AaronSw]

yep

16:57:52 [sbp]

ah

16:58:05 [sbp]

my browser adds the / back in, I guess

16:58:33 [sbp]

aren'y you meant to quote the "?"?

16:58:49 [AaronSw]

.py import urlparse

16:59:01 [AaronSw]

.py urlparse.urlparse('https://domain.com?email=aswartz@upclink.com')

16:59:02 [xena]

('https', 'domain.com?email=aswartz@upclink.com', '', '', '', '')

16:59:09 [AaronSw]

weird.

16:59:16 [AaronSw]

Oh... I guess that makes sense.

17:01:52 [sbp]

I get UPC Link when I do https://domain.com%3Femail=aswartz@upclink.com/

17:02:34 [atariBed]

atariBed is now known as atariboy

17:02:44 [AaronSw]

morning atariboy

17:03:12 [atariboy]

hi

17:03:19 [sbp]

just as I suspected: your URI is illegal:-

17:03:19 [sbp]

[[[

17:03:20 [sbp]

userinfo = *( unreserved | escaped |

17:03:20 [sbp]

";" | ":" | "&" | "=" | "+" | "$" | "," )

17:03:20 [sbp]

[...]

17:03:20 [sbp]

unreserved = alphanum | mark

17:03:22 [sbp]

mark = "-" | "_" | "." | "!" | "~" | "*" | "'" |

17:03:24 [sbp]

"(" | ")"

17:03:26 [sbp]

]]]

17:04:31 [sbp]

- RFC 3296

17:04:34 [sbp]

or

17:04:38 [sbp]

- RFC 2396

17:04:41 [sbp]

take your pick

17:04:45 [AaronSw]

OK.

17:07:31 [AaronSw]

RFC 3296: HTTP Remote Variant Selection Algorithm NG -- RVSA/2.0

17:07:36 [sbp]

* sbp updates browser.py - had a bug parsing user names

17:09:44 [AaronSw]

when are you going to put it on the web?

17:10:44 [AaronSw]

Ooh, I like your new mysterylights.com design. (Not yet uploaded to mysterylights.com.)

17:13:23 [AaronSw]

Dell is so slow.

17:16:21 [AaronSw]

Cool, Radio supports OS X services. http://radio.userland.com/macOsX#servicesMenu

17:18:35 [sbp]

"I like your new mysterylights.com design": thanks!

17:18:47 [sbp]

the problem is, note that all of the rest of the pages don't seem to go

17:19:56 [sbp]

Hmm... Ron Daniel's post is a bit odd. Wonder if he's read the MT?

17:23:14 [AaronSw]

Where's this message from Ron?

17:23:40 [AaronSw]

Ah, in www-rdf-interest.

17:23:45 [sbp]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0097

17:24:01 [AaronSw]

Heh, that's sort of funny.

17:24:26 [AaronSw]

If I were a simple junk mail filter I'd filter on XXX! not xxx.

17:24:41 [sbp]

heh, heh

17:25:05 [sbp]

* sbp tracks down a wizard to turn Aaron into a simple junk mail filter

17:25:28 [sbp]

Ah, conjecture

17:26:01 [AaronSw]

"A notebook computer, by one estimate, may contain up to 5,000 patented inventions." - http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/10/technology/10PATE.html

17:33:54 [sbp]

Hmm... what was the reasoning against "from blargh import *" again?

17:35:35 [sbp]

heh: http://www.theonion.com/onion3631/christian_right_lobbies.html

17:35:51 [sbp]

(from #infoanarchy)

17:39:26 [AaronSw]

from whatever import * is bad because it allows the author of the whatever module to create arbitrary variables in your program.

17:39:44 [AaronSw]

especially if you have multiple import *s or put the import * after normal imports, it'll overwrite stuff.

17:40:20 [sbp]

* sbp is reconvinced

17:40:44 [sbp]

My fundamental beliefs need propping up from time to time

17:41:18 [AaronSw]

Ok, so why is RDF good, again?

17:41:22 [AaronSw]

I've forgotten.

17:41:27 [sbp]

sbp's Core Beliefs, ISBN 092345801239 is in the shop today. Foreward by A. Swartz and Lao Tzu

17:41:51 [sbp]

Why is RDF good? Um... Because databases can be good, and Webized things can be good

17:42:09 [sbp]

Ah, because it helps with 'Plex, that's why

17:42:21 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh.

17:42:36 [sbp]

Heh, I'd love to see you write a foreward with Lao Tzu for a book of my core beliefs

17:42:48 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw runs out and buys a copy.

17:43:17 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw compares prices at http://isbn.nu/092345801239

17:43:54 [sbp]

Heh, heh

17:44:36 [sbp]

*sigh* if I'm going to continue to develop browser.py, then I need to factor out bits. But I don't really want to

17:44:42 [AaronSw]

you could have at least chosen one with a valid uri.

17:44:47 [sbp]

develop it, or factor bits out :-)

17:44:52 [sbp]

yeah, sorry

17:44:58 [AaronSw]

err, valid isbn.

17:45:04 [AaronSw]

err, valid length isbn

17:45:07 [AaronSw]

what does browser.py do but parse HTML?

17:45:11 [AaronSw]

and display it

17:45:18 [AaronSw]

Why don't you put it up on the web?

17:45:19 [sbp]

try: isbn:1567310036

17:46:11 [AaronSw]

ah. that's better: i like how it's called "Self Esteem".

17:46:17 [AaronSw]

only $1.99 from half.com

17:46:26 [sbp]

It can HEAD pages, get files through FTP (including using auth), er... and retrieve pages as plain text, forcably. Oh, and render HTML

17:46:35 [sbp]

$1.99? Not bad

17:46:47 [AaronSw]

just put it up on the web already

17:47:01 [AaronSw]

(browser.py, that is)

17:47:16 [sbp]

Make me

17:47:33 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw orders more plane tickets...

17:47:33 [sbp]

The HTML Parser is really crap, though! It's a shameful piece of coding

17:47:52 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw waves from airport lounge

17:47:59 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw waves from hotel

17:48:05 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw waves from sbp's house

17:48:08 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw strangles sbp

17:48:08 [sbp]

wow, you move fast

17:48:18 [sbp]

heh, Aaron's gone nuts

17:48:28 [AaronSw]

You know me -- can't wait for a good thing.

17:48:35 [AaronSw]

OK, now will you put it up?

17:48:36 [sbp]

pardon?

17:48:48 [AaronSw]

browser.py

17:48:54 [sbp]

lol @ a good thing. You have Lynx installed, right?

17:49:08 [AaronSw]

Oh, I meant strangling you.

17:49:12 [AaronSw]

Not browser.py.

17:49:19 [sbp]

Heh, fair enough

17:49:22 [AaronSw]

:-)

17:49:30 [AaronSw]

Now put it up. :)

17:49:54 [sbp]

Aw...

17:49:59 [AaronSw]

.http://m949-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com/browser.py

17:50:02 [xena]

Server ErrorHTTP/1.1 500 Server Error

17:51:51 [sbp]

O.K., I've put it on the Web

17:52:01 [sbp]

Happy now?

17:52:18 [AaronSw]

No, now you have to tell me the URL.

17:52:33 [AaronSw]

ne'er mind

17:52:37 [AaronSw]

@ http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py/

17:52:40 [chumpster]

G: http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py/ from AaronSw

17:52:45 [sbp]

heh, heh

17:52:57 [sbp]

please, use the canonical http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py

17:53:03 [sbp]

well, too late now

17:53:06 [AaronSw]

I tried, but it redirected me.

17:53:16 [AaronSw]

what's its problem?

17:53:19 [sbp]

yes, temporary redirect

17:53:25 [AaronSw]

Hmm

17:53:36 [sbp]

don't treat temp. redirects as permanent :-)

17:53:53 [AaronSw]

i didn't have browser.py, so how would i have known?

17:53:57 [sbp]

So anyway, there it is in all its glory

17:54:05 [sbp]

G:|browser.py

17:54:07 [chumpster]

titled item G

17:54:55 [AaronSw]

man, I hate that URI syntax.

17:55:02 [sbp]

G::A rather small Web browser written in [http://www.python.org/|Python]. python browser.py URI

17:55:03 [chumpster]

commented item G

17:55:07 [sbp]

what URI syntax?

17:55:13 [AaronSw]

the one browser.py uses.

17:55:36 [sbp]

G::It can HEAD pages (-head), get as text/plain (-text), and render HTML

17:55:37 [chumpster]

commented item G

17:55:40 [sbp]

pardon?

17:55:48 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw does an `alias txt='python browser.py'`

17:55:54 [AaronSw]

<</ads/> Advertise with Us> and stuff

17:56:09 [sbp]

Oh. I quite like that

17:56:17 [sbp]

but feel free to change it

17:56:33 [sbp]

it should all be configurable, blah, blah

17:57:28 [AaronSw]

what does -meta do?

17:57:34 [sbp]

G::isn't the HTML parser just a bundle of joy?

17:57:39 [chumpster]

commented item G

17:57:53 [sbp]

-meta: er... it's going to get all of the metainformation about a URI that it possibly can

17:58:03 [AaronSw]

it doesn't seem to do anything

17:58:05 [sbp]

not yet implemented

17:58:09 [AaronSw]

ah

17:58:56 [AaronSw]

I wish Python had better input mechanisms

17:59:19 [sbp]

Such as?

17:59:35 [AaronSw]

deltab, you might know this -- is there someway to timeout a user prompt in python?

18:00:13 [AaronSw]

like: Foosnatz has a blargle. Continue? [y/n] (timeout in 3 secs.)>

18:00:25 [deltab]

get input in a way that lets you specify a timeout :-)

18:00:40 [AaronSw]

yeah, but do you have any idea what that way is?

18:01:00 [AaronSw]

sbp, -head should give the the full headers.

18:01:03 [deltab]

select() loop

18:01:19 [deltab]

what sort of input?

18:01:31 [AaronSw]

input from the terminal

18:01:40 [deltab]

lines?

18:01:51 [AaronSw]

huh?

18:01:56 [AaronSw]

like raw_input

18:01:58 [deltab]

maybe readline can do it

18:02:14 [sbp]

what's up with http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ ?

18:02:41 [AaronSw]

readline just seemed to provide stuff for raw_input.

18:02:42 [sbp]

it should give you the full headers!

18:03:18 [AaronSw]

why would http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ give me the full headers?

18:03:38 [AaronSw]

--

18:03:39 [AaronSw]

$ headers google.com

18:03:39 [AaronSw]

HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily

18:03:40 [AaronSw]

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:02:15 GMT

18:03:40 [AaronSw]

Server: GWS/1.11

18:03:40 [AaronSw]

Location: http://www.google.com/

18:03:41 [AaronSw]

Cache-Control: No-Cache

18:03:43 [AaronSw]

Content-Length: 158

18:03:45 [AaronSw]

Content-Type: text/html

18:03:47 [AaronSw]

<blankline>

18:03:49 [AaronSw]

--

18:04:05 [AaronSw]

$ txt http://google.com/ -head

18:04:06 [AaronSw]

Getting http://google.com/...

18:04:06 [AaronSw]

Code was 302 (http://www.google.com/), continue? [Y/N]: n

18:04:06 [AaronSw]

Got it: text/html

18:04:06 [AaronSw]

302 Moved Temporarily

18:04:19 [AaronSw]

<blankline>

18:04:19 [AaronSw]

<blankline>

18:04:19 [AaronSw]

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:01:59 GMT

18:04:20 [AaronSw]

Server: GWS/1.11

18:04:20 [AaronSw]

Connection: close

18:04:20 [AaronSw]

Location: http://www.google.com/

18:04:22 [AaronSw]

Cache-Control: No-Cache

18:04:24 [AaronSw]

Content-Length: 158

18:04:26 [AaronSw]

Content-Type: text/html

18:04:28 [AaronSw]

<blankline>

18:04:30 [AaronSw]

--

18:05:01 [sbp]

yeah? what's wrong with that?

18:05:13 [AaronSw]

i want the response line

18:05:21 [AaronSw]

i.e. HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily

18:05:43 [sbp]

oh, you want the body of the response too?

18:06:07 [sbp]

it wouldn't be much of a HEAD request if it gave you the repr. too :-)

18:06:19 [sbp]

Of course it's not even a HEAD request... but we ignore that for now

18:06:29 [AaronSw]

i don't want the body.

18:06:41 [AaronSw]

i just want the response line... the first line you get back from a HEAD.

18:06:49 [sbp]

Ah

18:08:20 [sbp]

Use Lynx :-)

18:08:33 [AaronSw]

I use cURL.

18:08:37 [AaronSw]

Ooh, my proposal got a -1.

18:09:37 [sbp]

G::If you have a feature request, feel free to mail me (if you know my email address), the the response will invariably be: use cURL

18:09:39 [chumpster]

commented item G

18:09:50 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

18:09:50 [sbp]

G::s/the the/but the/

18:09:52 [chumpster]

commented item G

18:10:18 [AaronSw]

LOL. A response to my proposal: 'I think it would be an utter disaster, and in that sense quite compatible indeed with "print >>".'

18:10:21 [sbp]

well, it *is* ypo day, after all

18:10:28 [sbp]

heh!

18:10:32 [sbp]

URI?

18:10:58 [AaronSw]

mid:a1kg60$4bo$1@serv1.iunet.it

18:11:31 [AaronSw]

Steve: "Why not Perl? ;-)"

18:11:32 [sbp]

HTTP URI?

18:11:40 [AaronSw]

i dunno. it's on comp.lang.python

18:11:43 [AaronSw]

ask google groups

18:12:12 [sbp]

F::They cry: Stop Perling Python!

18:12:13 [chumpster]

commented item F

18:14:11 [sbp]

ah: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/8074 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/8079 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/8081

18:14:36 [AaronSw]

I think I'll go with:

18:14:38 [AaronSw]

> Why not Perl? ;-)

18:14:38 [AaronSw]

Zing!

18:16:08 [sbp]

Good response

18:17:24 [AaronSw]

I get the feeling I'm getting all the folks who don't like print being a statement out of the woodwork.

18:17:49 [sbp]

yeah

18:18:12 [sbp]

pretty fundamental statement, though

18:18:31 [sbp]

Hmm... what languages require you to have it as a function?

18:18:33 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw responds to his detractors

18:18:34 [sbp]

Oh, right

18:18:35 [sbp]

Java

18:18:41 [AaronSw]

Heh, heh, heh

18:18:49 [AaronSw]

I'll threaten people to use Java.

18:18:52 [sbp]

Heh!

18:18:58 [sbp]

Wow, don't get too nasty

18:21:28 [AaronSw]

Heh.

18:22:59 [AaronSw]

Wow, Zooko sure looks different after two years. http://www.mccullagh.org/image/rsa00/zooko.html Must be the beard.

18:26:25 [AaronSw]

Hmm, do you notice how Zooko always says "Thank you for X, it's a wonderful tool" when he's asking for help?

18:26:47 [deltab]

X, wonderful? I think not

18:27:03 [AaronSw]

heh. :) X being a variable.

18:27:09 [AaronSw]

as in: all your X are belong to Y.

18:27:16 [deltab]

yeah, I knew :-)

18:27:34 [AaronSw]

<deltab> but Y doesn't own the copyright to X, the Open Group does.

18:28:04 [deltab]

hmm?

18:28:18 [AaronSw]

cf. http://www.x.org/about.htm

18:28:29 [AaronSw]

(I just guessed.)

18:29:01 [AaronSw]

deltab, what do you think of my >> string suggestion?

18:29:08 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m421-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))

18:29:27 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m421-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

18:29:33 [deltab]

what's wrong with StringIO?

18:30:17 [AaronSw]

from StringIO import StringIO

18:30:17 [AaronSw]

x = StringIO()

18:30:17 [AaronSw]

function(foo, x)

18:30:17 [AaronSw]

x.seek(0)

18:30:17 [AaronSw]

x = x.read()

18:30:18 [AaronSw]

is a bit verbose

18:30:18 [xena]

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

18:30:19 [xena]

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

18:30:26 [AaronSw]

aaargh

18:30:47 [AaronSw]

i thought i fixed that

18:31:30 [AaronSw]

.rehash

18:31:36 [AaronSw]

x is now ok

18:31:36 [xena]

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

18:31:44 [AaronSw]

huh?

18:31:55 [AaronSw]

.rehash

18:31:58 [AaronSw]

x is now ok

18:31:59 [xena]

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

18:32:01 [AaronSw]

odd

18:34:50 [deltab]

'x' is short for '.x'

18:35:02 [AaronSw]

.x

18:35:06 [AaronSw]

.x is now ok

18:35:10 [AaronSw]

x is now ok

18:35:10 [xena]

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

18:35:15 [AaronSw]

doesn't seem like it

18:35:18 [AaronSw]

x is short for ,py

18:35:19 [xena]

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

18:35:19 [deltab]

or .py, or whatever it is

18:35:19 [AaronSw]

err .py

18:35:50 [deltab]

you don't know about StringIO().getvalue()?

18:36:07 [deltab]

also

18:36:08 [deltab]

>>> def p(*seq): return " ".join(map(str, seq))

18:36:25 [AaronSw]

no, i didn't know about getvalue

18:37:09 [AaronSw]

One fellow suggested a UserDict with write, which seems reasonable. (I originally dismissed it because I wanted to use '', but if i can append strings to it.

18:37:13 [AaronSw]

..

18:37:27 [deltab]

dict? why?

18:37:35 [AaronSw]

err UserString, sorry

18:37:43 [deltab]

ah

18:37:50 [deltab]

in 2.2 you can subclass str

18:37:52 [deltab]

:-)

18:37:59 [AaronSw]

yeah, that too

18:38:11 [AaronSw]

but i can't make 'foo' generate my subclass, can I?

18:41:14 [AaronSw]

Wow, there's a syndic8 store now

18:45:24 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. We've been experiencing some clone kiddie problems, including private CTCP floods. Suggest you turn on user modes +CE to avoid these attacks. +C prevents you from receiving private CTCP messages or responding to CTCP and +E prevents you from receiving messages from users not currently identified to nickserv. Thanks.

18:47:05 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Please note: not modes +ce, but +CE . The capitalization is signficiant. For more information, check on #openprojects. Thanks.

18:54:45 [AaronSw]

I wonder why X=X is considered harmful.

18:54:57 [deltab]

?

18:55:07 [deltab]

when?

18:55:20 [AaronSw]

according to http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=directed+oc

18:56:36 [hazmat]

from cStringIO import StringIO

18:57:28 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I wonder if OPN logs private messages.

18:57:48 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Please seriously consider turning off private CTCP if you're on a major public channel by setting mode C. On most clients, +C is set via one of the following: "/umode +C" or "/mode <yournick> +C" or "/quote mode <yournick> +C" or "/raw mode +C <yournick>". Thanks.

18:58:20 [AaronSw]

Why does it matter what channel I'm on?

19:01:46 [lilo]

[Global Notice] If you're on irssi and want to set +C to avoid private CTCP attacks, please set "/set lag_check_time 0" as well to avoid ping-out. Thanks.

19:03:59 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Two final notes....if you don't mind restricting your client so that it only receives private messages/notices from users identified to NickServ, this may be another very good protection to have. To do so, set +E as well as +C (+CE). And finally, we'll save further comments for WALLOPS. You can see wallops by turning on user mode +w. Thanks.

19:58:45 [sbp]

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20:00:50 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m115-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

20:12:25 [em-mit]

em-mit (~em@24-6-152.wireless.lcs.mit.edu) has joined #swhack

20:12:38 [em-mit]

* em-mit looks for AaronSw and sbp

20:12:43 [AaronSw]

hello

20:12:45 [em-mit]

* em-mit waves to AaronSw and sbp

20:12:54 [AaronSw]

hello

20:13:18 [em-mit]

* em-mit wonders if they would mind talking about primer

20:14:51 [AaronSw]

sure.

20:14:53 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw pokes sbp

20:15:28 [em-mit]

err... its on the agenda for tomorrows call, i'm hoping either one of you has been able to spend more time on it than i have

20:16:12 [em-mit]

i was looking for an update from yor guys on your writing assignments

20:17:06 [AaronSw]

we had writing assignments?

20:17:20 [sbp]

Hooray! I found it

20:17:26 [em-mit]

* em-mit looks for the to-do list that AaronSw wrote

20:19:39 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m4-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))

20:19:46 [em-mit]

* em-mit returns and finds http://www.w3.org/2001/09/rdfprimer/todo

20:19:56 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m4-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

20:20:01 [AaronSw]

Oh, that. ;-)

20:20:22 [AaronSw]

I've been working on designing the system, but haven't done any writing yet.

20:20:23 [em-mit]

err.... yes!

20:20:34 [em-mit]

designing the system?

20:21:01 [em-mit]

are you thinking about supporting code for this?!? we just need explanation at this time!

20:21:14 [em-mit]

we are dangerously behind on this deliverable

20:21:16 [AaronSw]

no, i meant stuff like the schema for this metadata.

20:21:44 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m294-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com)))

20:22:03 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m294-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

20:22:08 [em-mit]

err.. seems like sbp is having problems?!

20:22:25 [sbp]

sorry, bad connection

20:22:39 [em-mit]

AaronSw, is your status on the primer then 'no update' ?

20:22:53 [em-mit]

sbp, any luck on your end?

20:23:29 [sbp]

I think I wrote a schema for it, somewhere

20:24:40 [sbp]

* sbp searches

20:24:40 [AaronSw]

sorry -- gotta run to dentist

20:25:15 [AaronSw]

c'ya

20:27:03 [em-mit]

take care; when you get back (and the novacain wears off :) pls send me an update

20:50:55 [sbp]

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21:30:11 [powretopwrejhgopjwrsopg]

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21:30:13 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

21:30:37 [sbp]

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21:30:38 [sbp]

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21:30:52 [sbp]

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21:39:20 [sbp]

lol!

21:39:24 [sbp]

Aaron, are you there?

21:39:49 [sbp]

"""Blogspace is confusing me. I can't figure out what it is. [...] posted by Jason Nolan 8:17 AM""" - http://www.edublog.com/blogger.php

21:42:04 [sbp]

You might want to explain the... um... tremendous complexities of blogspace

21:44:33 [sbp]

Heh, that's quite funny

21:51:42 [sbp]

ooh, zooko.com:-

21:51:43 [sbp]

socket.error: (116, 'Attempt to connect timed out without establishing a connection')

21:51:57 [sbp]

http://www.netcat.co.uk/rob/perl/win32perltut.html

21:55:11 [sbp]

Gotta run

22:18:22 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

22:34:17 [sbp]

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22:34:48 [em-mit]

* em-mit leaves his laptop unattended; is temporarily danbri

22:34:57 [em-mit]

hi guys :)

22:35:21 [sbp]

Heh, heh. Hi

22:38:52 [ThreaT]

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22:39:00 [ThreaT]

ThreaT has left #swhack

22:41:24 [sbp]

* sbp listens to some Oasis

22:42:39 [tansaku]

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23:00:42 [em-mit]

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23:06:30 [hazmat]

cool, i just got lucene to index comp.lang.python.