2002-01-02.txt0100644000014300000000000004204307414716230011664 0ustar nobodyroot00:21:14 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m861-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:21:32 sbp (~sean@m861-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:09:08 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 02:20:54 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m964-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:21:12 sbp (~sean@m964-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:42:25 hazmat has left #swhack 03:06:29 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:18:35 @ 03:18:39 @ http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/quantum/quantum.jsp?id=22744000 03:18:56 A: http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/quantum/quantum.jsp?id=22744000 from sbp 03:19:24 A:|Genetic Algorithms 03:19:25 titled item A 03:19:37 A::Getting computers to "invent" things 03:19:38 commented item A 03:20:53 A::The basic idea (spotted by John Koza) is that you can apply a GA to a GA, in order to find the best *approach* for inventing, not just the best invention 03:20:54 commented item A 03:54:08 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m998-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:54:25 sbp (~sean@m998-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:36:29 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:14:30 BenSw` (Snak@AC896E30.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 06:17:11 BenSw` is now known as BenSw 07:21:41 BenSw is now known as BenSw|away 07:34:46 BenSw|away is now known as BenSw 08:02:36 BenSw is now known as BenSw|away 09:32:20 BenSw|away has quit ("Snak 4.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 10:00:05 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACAD444E.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 10:00:14 BLURB: Swhack Dinner in London 10:00:43 B: Swhack Dinner in London from AaronSw-UK 10:01:39 B::We're holding a Swhack Dinner in London tonight, 7PM. It's in the W1 section. [Email me|mailto:me@aaronsw.com] if you're interested in coming for more details. 10:01:40 commented item B 10:05:04 B::Actually, since I will probably be away from the computer, you can email [Charlie|http://www.doid.com/] and ask him. 10:05:05 commented item B 10:05:15 B::We'll be talking about the Web, the Plex, etc. 10:05:16 commented item B 10:05:21 B::Should be fun! 10:05:22 commented item B 10:10:50 AaronSw-UK has quit ("sightseeing") 11:38:52 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:44:16 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 11:44:23 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 11:47:26 tav` (tav@host217-34-83-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:49:01 sbp (~sean@m632-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:12:22 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m128-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 17:12:40 sbp (~sean@m128-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:19:29 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC82A2DA.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 17:20:12 * sbp waves 17:44:51 BenSw (Snak@AC82A2DA.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 17:45:07 * BenSw waves 17:49:35 * BenSw waits very impatiently for simpsons to be on 17:49:40 * BenSw taps foot 17:51:05 Just an hour and 8 minutes... I dont think I can wait that long 17:51:06 logster, grep -i ::.*permalinks 17:51:37 I'm logging. I found 1 answer for '::.*permalinks' 17:51:38 0) 2002-01-02 17:51:06 logster, grep -i ::.*permalinks 17:51:44 logster, grep -i permalinks 17:52:04 I'm logging. I found 9 answers for 'permalinks' (showing 0...4) 17:52:05 0) 2002-01-02 17:51:44 logster, grep -i permalinks 17:52:06 1) 2002-01-02 17:51:06 logster, grep -i ::.*permalinks 17:52:07 2) 2001-12-20 14:58:44 """"Meanwhile, the other Aaron (permalinks, gentlemen? :-) asks : I wonder what the court would say if I came out with a browser that linked every instance of the word "the" to the DeCSS source code?. Isn't that what we all tied our panties in a knot over when Microsoft announced Smart Tags ?""" 17:52:08 3) 2001-12-20 14:55:53 hey, aaron, we added permalinks 17:52:09 4) 2001-12-18 21:32:01 the articles already are permalinks (and have matching redirects from three iterations/redesigns ago ) 17:52:31 logster, grep 5-9 -i permalinks 17:52:39 I'm logging. I found 2 answers for '-i permalinks' (showing 5...2) 17:52:49 logster, grep -i 5-9 permalinks 17:52:56 I'm logging. I found 11 answers for 'permalinks' (showing 5...9) 17:52:57 5) 2001-12-20 14:55:53 hey, aaron, we added permalinks 17:52:58 6) 2001-12-18 21:32:01 the articles already are permalinks (and have matching redirects from three iterations/redesigns ago ) 17:52:59 7) 2001-12-18 21:30:04 I added permalinks to the swahck weblog. 17:53:00 8) 2001-12-17 00:58:25 ok, looks like we have permalinks! 17:53:01 9) 2001-12-17 00:15:48 cool. now i just need to fix chumpster to serve the permalinks 17:53:03 aargh! 18:04:19 What's with the permalinks? 18:07:38 Someone on #rdfig asked how to get links to the chumped items 18:38:11 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 18:52:25 B::OK, I'm off to dinner now. See you all later. 18:52:28 commented item B 18:52:31 AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner") 18:52:34 BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 18:53:01 BenSw (Snak@AC82A2DA.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 18:55:35 BenSw has left #swhack 18:55:40 BenSw (Snak@AC82A2DA.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 18:56:25 Hi 18:56:40 * BenSw gets ready to watch the simpsons 18:57:59 * sbp too 18:58:20 stupid commercials 18:58:32 eye glass 18:59:09 ready 18:59:11 set 19:00:40 BenSw is now known as BenSw|watchingsimpsons 19:01:04 go! 19:04:46 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:05:40 BenSw|watchingsimpsons has quit (Remote closed the connection) 19:51:04 kmacleod (~kmacleod@chomsky.casbah.org) has joined #swhack 19:51:18 kmacleod has left #swhack 20:06:29 sbp (~sean@m705-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:10:48 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m602-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:11:08 sbp (~sean@m602-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:07:32 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC8FA090.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 21:07:43 Hi Aaron. Try http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/att-0003/01-XML2000 21:07:57 Hello, there. 21:08:43 That's really quite scary. 21:08:53 Thank you 21:08:58 :-) 21:09:24 Oh, you didn't do all of it. 21:09:32 Did seem a little short. 21:09:41 You should include links to the appropriate slides. 21:09:54 I probably will in a "finished" version 21:14:17 heh: http://doc.weblogs.com/2002/01/02#thisJustInFromTheHumilityEnforcementDepartment 21:24:09 sbp, you should reply to http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=d6a0a71c.0112181259.28546e46%40posting.google.com and ask for @@ to be added to the list. 21:39:39 Interesting: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=90cbefb1.0112211746.43392bc8%40posting.google.com&output=gplain 21:40:25 Didn't Gerald or someone ask for that? 21:40:45 That is interesting 21:45:02 wtf? the Register is in Association with IBM? 21:45:22 Aha! Conspiracy! 21:47:56 this is quite funny: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/23362.html 21:48:00 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/23362.html 21:48:27 oops 21:48:28 @ http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/23362.html 21:48:34 C: The Register from AaronSw-UK 21:49:17 lol! 21:49:27 C:|Why WIPO Sucks 21:49:28 titled item C 21:49:42 Heh, heh 21:49:42 C::via [jorn|http://www.robotwisdom.com/] 21:49:43 commented item C 21:51:15 @ http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/05/26/free_love/index.html 21:51:18 D: Salon.com tech | If code is free, why not me? from hazmat 21:51:21 C::Homer: Yeah Moe, that team sure did suck last night. Well, I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. Uh oh, I gotta go - my damn weiner kids are listening 21:51:22 commented item C 22:17:05 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:22:08 * AaronSw-UK reads http://www.choisser.com/faceblind/ 22:24:08 reminds of me the movie memento 22:30:45 Yeah, that was a good movie. 22:31:01 Hmm, I'm starting to wonder if I'm Face Blind. (Just followed the link from a /. comment.) 22:31:16 I've never been any good at remembering faces... but I'm not that bad. 22:31:40 theres a difference between living in your own world and being face blind me thinks :-) 22:32:55 * hazmat goes back to compiling mozilla 22:33:48 living in my own world? 22:37:50 everyone lives in their own world, the boundaries of perception and consciousness are intertwined. 22:38:59 No, I have that too, but that's different. 22:39:54 I think my problem is that I just can't focus on people's faces in real life. I just don't want to look at them, or at least remember them 22:40:45 i have the same problem with names when i meet face to face (faces i remember), but names. i realize that i ask someones name but i don't ever listen to the answer. 22:41:18 Hmm, interesting. 22:41:47 I also have the same "person merging" problem as him, occasionally. Like today folks told me that two people in LotR who I assumed were the same were different. 22:42:07 hmm.. who were they? 22:43:53 Strider and the Elf king. 22:45:59 interesting, what about scenes where they were both present? 22:46:55 i didn't realize there were any. i have trouble figuring out who's who in big scenes like that 22:47:05 wow, i'm just realizing stuff like that. 22:47:25 where do you live normally? 22:47:31 outside of chicago 22:48:03 * hazmat is in los angeles at the moment. 22:48:46 so how much longer are u in the uk for? 22:48:51 is that where you live normally? 22:48:54 i'm here until the 7th 22:49:10 http://www.choisser.com/faceblind/ 22:49:14 @ http://www.choisser.com/faceblind/ 22:49:21 E: http://www.choisser.com/faceblind/ from AaronSw-UK 22:49:27 E:|Face Blind! 22:49:28 titled item E 22:49:44 E::A fascinating book on the condition of "face blindness". 22:49:45 commented item E 22:49:53 yes. although i'm interested in moving back to the east coast (NYC, or VA). 22:50:00 E::I'm starting to think I might have it, or perhaps something similar. 22:50:01 commented item E 22:56:41 sbp (~sean@m183-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:57:39 Hmm, "topographic agnosia". 22:58:18 I must admit that I simply do not understand how anyone can remember the patterns of streets and things needed to get from place to place. 22:58:28 When I want to go somewhere, I just wander in its direction. 22:58:56 Which only works well for short distances -- I'm rather afraid of not being able to drive because of this. 22:59:06 I'm like that when I don't know where I'm going, but otherwise I have a pretty good memory for directions 22:59:27 I kinda prefer when I don't know the target though, because it means I can stroll a bit. Unless I'm late 22:59:50 Hi sbp. I'm self-diagnosing myself with all sorts of disorders. 23:00:25 Add "Archive-Everything-And-Be-A-General-Information-Anarchist" 23:00:34 -Disorder 23:00:51 Nah, that's an Order, not a Disorder. 23:01:00 .wn Anarchy 23:01:01 anarchy defined as: 23:01:02 - n : a state of lawlessness and disorder (usually resulting from a failure of government) [syn: {lawlessness}] 23:02:01 But yeah, it's not really a disorder. I was just saying that to appear nasty. Mwaahahaha! 23:03:15 Heh heh. 23:03:18 Since I broke that string, I've had to detune my guitar, and it's certainly interesting how my noodling patterns have modified 23:03:33 Hmm. 23:04:53 (to anyone) Can you close your eyes and remember/see people's faces? 23:05:08 I can only see mental pictures of them with their faces. 23:05:19 But never the faces themselves, very clearly. 23:05:33 s/,// 23:05:51 I have that only very mildly 23:06:41 What are you reading? 23:07:04 It's chumped: http://www.choisser.com/faceblind/ 23:07:11 * sbp listens to "River Deep, Mountain High", Ika and Tina Turner, prod. Phil Spector 23:08:34 s/Ika/Ike/ 23:10:05 * sbp listens to "Telegram Sam", T. Rex 23:10:27 Is it true that Glam Rock evolved from the title song on Sgt. Pepper's? 23:10:45 .google "Glam Rock" "Sgt. Pepper's" 23:10:47 "Glam Rock" "Sgt. Pepper's": http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~tewing/smile4.html 23:12:15 FWIW, I don't think that SMiLE would have been better than Sgt. Pepper's, but almost certainly top-5 23:12:51 AaronSw-UK: perhaps you need to look at some beautfiful women. always helps my memory :-) 23:12:58 heh heh heh 23:13:04 ugh, looks like the email is beginning to pick up after the holidays. 23:13:22 The 8+ minute version of "Heroes And Villains" (wherever it came from) it pretty fun, though 23:15:23 Hmm, I'm sort of thinking my problem is not being able to focus on the eyes, or that part of the face -- not really sure, tho. 23:15:35 I note that I like hanging out with bald or long-haired people at conferences. 23:16:42 Are there any other classes of people that attend conferences? 23:17:57 most pythonistas don't seem to fit in those categories par my experience at python conferences. 23:18:08 * hazmat hangs out with the smokers. 23:18:25 Yeah, that was sort of true too, sbp. ;-) 23:18:29 At least for the cool people. 23:18:37 The suits hand decent haircuts, so I stayed away. 23:19:13 Seth Russell: "I produced and sold a product called CyberMind for the AppleII based exclusively on labeled directed graphs as the data model. The Manual bears the copyright date 1985. See graph below for other historical details." 23:19:15 Interesting! 23:22:07 Hmm, I also find detailed photos of faces especially interesting or different in some way. 23:23:53 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m107-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 23:24:12 sbp (~sean@m107-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:25:45 PFPS asks about the difference between information and knowledge. I think information is knowledge serialized. 23:29:13 .wn knowledge 23:29:13 .wn information 23:29:14 knowledge defined as: 23:29:15 - n : the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning [syn: {cognition}] 23:29:15 information defined as: 23:29:16 - n 1: a message received and understood that reduces the recipient's uncertainty [syn: {info}] 23:29:17 - 2: a collection of facts from which conclusions may be drawn; "statistical data" [syn: {data}] 23:29:18 - 3: knowledge acquired through study or experience or instruction 23:29:19 - 4: (communication theory) a numerical measure of the uncertainty of an outcome; "the signal contained thousands of bits of information" [syn: {selective information}, {entropy}] 23:29:20 - 5: formal accusation of a crime 23:29:43 See, Wordnet agrees with me! 23:33:47 McCusker: "Happy New Year! The world didn't end, for those expecting it." 23:37:29 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m494-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 23:37:47 sbp (~sean@m494-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:38:07 [[[ 23:38:09 Heh, heh 23:38:11 Man, I love that Clearwater Castle jam 23:38:13 .google 78untitled.ram 23:38:15 ]]] 23:38:17 .google 78untitled.ram 23:38:18 no results found. 23:38:39 .google "Clearwater Castle" Jam 23:38:40 "Clearwater Castle" Jam: http://www.rootnode.org/article.php?sid=34 23:40:30 ah: "Fire (Say You're Gonna Leave Me)" 23:49:44 Ooh, I've found what may well be a longer version of it 2002-01-03.txt0100644000014300000000000007240607415167661011704 0ustar nobodyroot00:01:32 * sbp is rather excited about this 00:13:17 Hmm... 00:13:20 [[[ 00:13:20 RCS file: /sources/public/2000/10/swap/llyn.py,v 00:13:20 retrieving revision 1.7 00:13:20 retrieving revision 1.9 00:13:20 Merging differences between 1.7 and 1.9 into llyn.py 00:13:21 ]]] 00:13:38 That doesn't sound healthy now, does it? 00:17:44 Um... I guess I may have changed it, due to the old content-sniffing problem 00:19:31 * sbp listens to the full version of "Say You're Gonna Leave Me" 00:21:28 neat. 00:21:44 AaronSw-UK has quit ("bristol!") 00:27:01 The main bit of the song is 2:57 in length 00:38:01 Man, I thought that main riff was a harmonica... it's Page's guitar! I'd love to know what setting he has that on 00:42:25 Wow, I really do love this song. It's a shame they didn't develop and release it 00:45:14 I wonder if I can make out the lyrics... 00:45:31 [[[ 00:45:51 All you wanna do is stay, [something] night 00:46:00 Alone and hanging, why won't you stay? 00:46:03 [guitar] 00:46:23 ??? You're still gonna leave 00:46:33 ? leeeeeeeaaaave 00:46:36 [guitar] 00:46:45 oooooooooooh 00:46:52 [more harmonizing] 00:47:04 [guitar] 00:47:21 Won't you stay yeah, ??? 00:47:25 Say you're gonna leave me 00:47:28 And ever [???] 00:47:31 [guitar] 00:47:39 hazmat has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:47:51 [guitar to end, as I recall] 00:48:13 [do do do, do do do] 00:48:19 ]]] 00:48:40 That "do do do" is: E5 D5 C5. C5 D5 E5 00:49:06 I think it's either drop-D, or step down tuning 00:51:30 Recorded in 1978, here's some info:- 00:51:31 [[[ 00:51:32 the band regrouped at Clearwater Castle in Wales. These early recordings of "Fire (Say You Gonna Leave Me)" and "Carouselambra" show the band's tremendous power. 00:51:40 ]]] - http://www.led-zeppelin.org/multimedia/studioouttakes.html 00:52:21 "Clearwater Castle Rehearsals, Wales, England, May 1978 [...] Fire is a GREAT unreleased song that should have seen its place on the album!" - http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/christy/233/zeppelinothers.html 00:53:05 the whole song is available for download from http://www.led-zeppelin.org/multimedia/studioouttakes.html 00:56:07 Here's another attempt at interpreting the lyrics: All you wanna do is stay, a [s?g?] you in night. Drop and hanging, alone in the stay [guitar] And say that you won't leave me. Do something right, all you wanna do is leeeeeave [guitar] oooh [harmonizing] [guitar] Won't you stay, I'll leave you inside. Say you're gonna leave me, [???] [guitar to end] 00:56:37 Problem is, it's too early in the morning here to play it loud, so I can't really transcribe it as well 00:56:51 no headphones? 00:57:04 Well, I'm listening to it on headphones, but they're not that loud 00:57:10 ah 00:59:26 Ah, I think the first line is "All you wanna do is stay up". It gets really unclear from then on 01:01:24 "Alone and hanging, why won't you stay?" seems more like "I set you up from hanging, alone in the [say?]" 01:01:38 Really odd, I just can't work it out at all 01:02:15 I worked out the main guitar riff, though :-) Page plays it really clearly whilst jamming right after the main song 01:06:26 here's one bit, playing in that really cool amp setting 01:06:44 it helps if you let the X X 14 14 15 X shape ring whilst playing 01:06:45 e|------------------------------------------| 01:06:46 B|--15-17-------------------15-17-----------| 01:06:46 G|--------14-16-------14-16-------14-16-----| 01:06:46 D|--------------14-16-------------------14--| 01:06:46 A|------------------------------------------| 01:06:47 E|------------------------------------------| 01:07:05 [variation of the main riff] 01:07:55 er... s/E/D/ 01:09:52 e|------------------------| 01:09:53 B|--15-17-15-17-----------| 01:09:53 G|------------------------| 01:09:53 D|--------------16-14-16--| 01:09:53 A|------------------------| 01:09:53 E|------------------------| 01:13:31 little "open" variation of the one at the top:- 01:13:31 e|-----------------------------| 01:13:32 B|-----------------------------| 01:13:32 G|-----------------------------| 01:13:32 D|--0-2-------------0-2--------| 01:13:32 A|--0-2---0-----0-2-0-2---0----| 01:13:34 E|------3---0-3---------3---0--| 01:13:46 in fact, he appears to palm mute an E5 thoughout much of the song 01:14:57 [note: I don't think that the open riff is ever played, but it follows the song closely] 01:15:49 * sbp used to do quite a bit of tablature 01:20:39 this also sits well, but probably isn't played:- 01:20:39 E7#9 E5 D5 E5 01:20:40 e|-----------------| 01:20:40 B|--8--8-----------| 01:20:40 G|--7--7--9--7--9--| 01:20:40 D|--6--6--9--7--9--| 01:20:41 A|--7--7--7--5--7--| 01:20:43 E|-----------------| 01:24:13 Hmm... actually, it doesn't seem to be an open E5 PM 01:24:16 It's more like:- 01:24:17 d|---------------------------------| 01:24:17 A|---------------------------------| 01:24:17 F|---------------------------------| 01:24:17 C|--2-4-2-4---------2-4-2-4--------| 01:24:18 G|--2-4-2-4-------0-2-4-2-4--------| 01:24:20 D|----------2-0-2-----------2-0-2--| 01:26:14 alternate titles: "Fire (You Gonna Leave Me)", "Fire (You're Gonna Leave Me)", "You're Gonna Leave Me" 01:26:44 surprisingly little documentation on the Web, hence all the stuff I'm scribing into the log :-) 01:35:55 O.K., I've decided that during one of the "verses", he's certainly playing:- 01:35:56 PM - - - - - - 01:35:56 e|-----------------| 01:35:56 B|-----------------| 01:35:56 G|-----------------| 01:35:56 D|--0-2-0-2--------| 01:35:57 A|--0-2-0-2--------| 01:35:59 E|----------0-0-0--| 01:37:06 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m670-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:37:24 sbp (~sean@m670-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:38:35 Those little rising-solo bits are scarily good 02:10:26 Heh, HumanMarkup still lists me as a member: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/humanmarkup/ 02:10:37 Indeed, a TC member 02:21:16 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 02:23:10 sbp (~sean@m46-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:25:03 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:25:20 sbp (~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:29:16 Interesting: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/TimBook-old/History 02:31:32 heh, the template: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/0Template.html 02:39:16 cool notes: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/More 02:44:16 @ http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/NamespacesAreResources 02:44:19 A: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/NamespacesAreResources from sbp 02:47:39 A:|Namespaces Are Resources 02:47:40 titled item A 02:47:56 A::Part of TimBL DesignIssues series 02:47:57 commented item A 02:48:16 Reading that Evolvability DesignIssue again... it certainly brings home the EARL problem 02:48:38 which is that we keep tweaking the language, adding in bits here and there, and changing other bits 02:48:54 but on the other hand, we want some sort of stability. It's quite a big problem 02:49:37 Of course, the other problem is that we have methods of using EARL from an SW POV (i.e. using CWM, Notation3, and the rules format), and from the conventional "parse this, try to get the semantics", e.g. JavaScript 02:50:03 For example Jim Ley built his script quite quickly, but really, it's just a screen scriping trick (albeit a good one!) 02:50:58 So I guess that the main goal is to make sure that people have some sort of standard rules based format for expressing things, e.g. conversions between languages, functions and tasks within certain lagnuages, bug fixes, screen scraping, and systems built on top of many languages 02:51:23 And then there is the question of how one constructs a language. What is a language on the Web, anyway? 02:52:14 TimBL said somewhere (check xena/Google in a sec.) that a namespace is actually a language. He also said above that a namespace is a resource... soa language is a resource. Well, that makes a great deal of sense - you want to be able to talk about languages 02:52:38 But on the SW, we tend to have "vocabulary sets" rather than languages, because we don't have the concept of "namespace" 02:53:08 So whilst there are "languages" to some extent in XML (and there, the problem is a QName structure), in RDF it is difficult to pin down what we mean by a language 02:53:24 Of course, you can say that a set of terms are related, and perhaps even call them a "language" 02:53:35 You can also build a little QName format, and then start using that 02:53:57 [ sbp:namespace ; sbp:name "TestElement" ] . 02:54:32 Hmm... it's quite inefficient to do that. It'd be easier if you modelled the names somewhere, and then said that they belong to that namespace 02:55:23 a :Namespace; daml:first :SomeElement; daml:rest (:TestElement :MyElement) . 02:56:09 Then you have a strange two-part QName, where you have a URI for the namespace-resource, and URIs for each of the respective names in that namespace. Of course that's a good approach - names are resources too 02:56:30 In fact, it's doubly good, because it means that you can say that a certain "element" appears in two languages 02:58:40 Then, you have certain "constructs" in languages. EARL has evaluations. XML "languages" have particular structures of elements. Mapping those structures to (any) semantics would be a good experiment 02:59:25 tansaku (~sam@n145-142.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 02:59:36 In syntactic languages, you want to be able to say which things *can* go where 03:00:09 As TimBL put it, you are designing the thing inside-out, so that you want to say where you allow extensions to occur, and what the nauture of those extensions may be 03:00:50 Which is kinda what we did in xWebL; i.e. we had a schema language that had semantics as well as syntax. For example, these set of elements were for text, and these were for media 03:01:11 Of course, Aaron wanted to make sure that each of the semantic groups followed a common syntax as well 03:01:39 And all of this was reminiscent of the XML Schema structure, except that it was XSD done "right", in that it doesn't trick you into thinking that you can express semantics 03:02:03 Because it really does allow you to do that. Well... I wonder if we Webized it? I'm sure we must have done, because otherwise you couldn't refer to the bits 03:02:33 Ah, I presume that the "things" had QNames or URIs, using the base xWebL namespace. Anyway, that's not important 03:03:56 The important thing is that it allowed you to extend these semantic groups. That is, when you come up with a new element, all you had to do was give the rough type 03:04:18 Then, the application would put it in that group, automatically retrieve the definition, and add it to the schema 03:04:31 As I recall, I actually got it working to some extent using XSLT and XSD 03:04:53 There'd be a hint in the *document*, and then that could be converted to "patch" the XSD, if you like 03:06:05 You could also style the new element based on your knowledge of styling existing elements in that group. Or, of course, you could add a pointer to some stylesheet, and then use that 03:06:27 I think that's quite a neat way of going about it, but we have different ends of the spectrum 03:06:44 From syntactic to semantic validation, from QNames to URIs 03:07:27 There is a lack of consistency there, and I'm not sure where it crept in. Perhaps it's not a problem, but it is often confusing for people coming into the situation. Well, it's confusing for anyone 03:11:14 Hmm... the RDF model for extensions can be quite similar 03:11:28 When you use a new property, you might want to give its type, range, domain, etc. 03:11:55 So you use the property, but you might also have a link to some kind of schema that gives extra details about the property - some documentation,a nd some machine readable stuff 03:12:30 the canonical way to do that is by using rdfs:isDefinedBy. Still, that doesn't necessarily mean "go and retrieve this". That's what daml:imports does, and TimBL mentions that in Toolbox 03:12:49 Anyway, the mechanisms are therefore both similar 03:13:03 * Use the new "thing" in the "document" 03:13:12 * Provide a link to more information about the "thing" 03:13:26 That's it 03:13:50 Web Architecture derived backwards :-) 03:14:23 Now, we have to worry about the lack of consistent "links". The rdfs:isDefinedBy problem is quite large 03:14:47 I wonder how TimBL's new validation thing uses it? I guess it uses that property to look for the schema, using log:semanticsOrError 03:15:39 http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/util/validate.n3 03:17:03 Aha! It uses either the rdfs:isDefinedBy arc, or failing that, the log:racine 03:17:19 That's actually a very sensible approach, although it'll make Aaron cringe 03:17:32 IT makes me want to set up a system that uses all of this fancy schema checking stuff :-) 03:18:20 heh, heh, I love this bit:- 03:18:23 [[[ 03:18:26 ]]] 03:18:58 oh, heh, Python commented! 03:19:15 [[[ 03:19:15 > # I think the counterexample is the dublin core, but it may not work anyway. 03:19:15 > # Actually, the dublic core uses a redirect!!! We need to be aware of the 03:19:15 > # existence of redirects like that @@ 03:19:17 ]]] 03:30:17 * sbp plays around with the validator a bit 03:33:10 [[[ 03:33:10 llyn.BuiltInFailed: Error during built-in operation 03:33:10 < 14) _formula :: home/schema-rules.n3 semantics _g33? . short=0, li=0 > 03:33:10 in formula , 03:33:10 because: 03:33:10 " Unable to access document , because:\n [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/schema-rules.n3'" 03:33:13 ]]] 03:33:17 Hmm... 03:34:18 * sbp puts a file there, and tries again 03:36:23 Well, it's just sitting there doing nothing 03:38:30 great! 03:38:31 [[[ 03:38:32 :ERROR_PREDICATE_NOT_DECLARED_AS_PROPERTY rdf:range, 03:38:32 s:domain, 03:38:32 s:range, 03:38:32 earl:confidence, 03:38:32 earl:validity, 03:38:34 rcs:id; 03:38:36 :ERROR_TYPE_NOT_DECLARED_AS_CLASS rdf:Class, 03:38:38 earl:ConfidenceLevel, 03:38:40 earl:ResultProperty, 03:38:42 earl:TestMode, 03:38:44 earl:ValidityState . 03:38:46 03:38:50 ]]] 03:40:02 Hmm... earl:validity is indeed declared:- 03:40:03 [[[ 03:40:04 earl:validity a rdf:Property; rdfs:label "validity"; 03:40:04 rdfs:domain earl:ResultProperty; rdfs:range earl:ValidityState . 03:40:09 ]]] - http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/0.95.n3 03:42:00 "Take Me Home" is rather good 03:43:52 heh:- 03:43:53 [[[ 03:43:53 :NAMESPACE_ACCESS_ERROR """Line 15 of : Bad syntax (expected '.' or '}' or ']' at end of statement) at ^ in: 03:43:53 "...-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN"> 03:43:53 ^ 03:43:53 404 Not Found 03:43:55 ]]] 03:45:05 .google "Take Me Home" Zeppelin 03:45:06 "Take Me Home" Zeppelin: http://www.vintagerock.com/vr.html 03:46:53 I love the chord progression 03:47:18 Hmm... 03:47:19 [[[ 03:47:19 @prefix : <#> . 03:47:19 @prefix daml: . 03:47:19 @prefix damlg1: . 03:47:20 @prefix dc: . 03:47:22 @prefix doc: . 03:47:24 @prefix foaf: . 03:47:26 @prefix log: . 03:47:28 @prefix os: . 03:47:30 @prefix rdf: . 03:47:32 @prefix s: . 03:47:34 @prefix string: . 03:47:36 @prefix v: . 03:47:38 @prefix vg1: . 03:47:40 03:47:42 :ERROR_PREDICATE_NOT_DECLARED_AS_PROPERTY , 03:47:45 s:domain, 03:47:47 s:range . 03:47:49 03:47:53 ]]] 03:50:58 neat catch:- 03:50:58 [[[ 03:50:59 :ERROR_IN_NAMESPACE_ACCESS_FOR . 03:50:59 ]]] 04:05:26 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m731-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 04:05:44 sbp (~sean@m731-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:06:52 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:09:51 tansaku (~sam@n145-142.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 04:12:48 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:14:40 tansaku (~sam@n145-142.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 04:33:13 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m736-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 04:33:31 sbp (~sean@m736-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:33:53 Gotta run 04:33:54 sbp has quit (Remote closed the connection) 05:23:12 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:23:15 .seen AaronSw 05:23:16 AaronSw seen joining #rdfig ~ 17 hr(s) 38 min(s) 27 sec(s) ago 05:23:39 .seen sbp 05:23:39 sbp seen in #swhack saying: [ Gotta run ] ~ 49 min(s) 46 sec(s) ago 05:41:22 anyone here? 05:41:27 yes 05:41:54 you're rdf-enabled, right? 05:42:02 er 05:42:15 i mean, you can answer a rdf/xml question? 05:42:26 hmm, possibly 05:42:38 ok, this shouldn't be one of those obscure pedantic questions 05:42:46 ah good 05:43:14 I have a doc with (lets say) some text enclosed in an element and that element has an id attribute (non-rdf id attribute) 05:43:44 I can refer to that element in rdf (in the same document) using about="#name", right? (thats not the question, just the leadup) 05:44:28 hmm 05:44:30 actually 05:44:44 does that confuse you? 05:45:13 i think i've already tripped up 05:45:27 oh? 05:46:01 well, maybe i haven't ;-) 05:46:34 My first question is then what would about="#someid" refer to (lets say in an HTML file with embedded RDF) 05:48:58 hmm, that seems to be on the unsteady ground of what a URI refers to 05:49:04 yeah 05:49:40 well, here's the second question - what I want to say is that the **content** of the element is the "object" of an rdf statement... 05:50:14 that's dependent on ht eanswer to the first question :-) 05:50:39 so if I have Name of Person, I'd like to be able to say that the name of the author of this document is the content of the element with id="foo" ;-) 05:50:43 for example 05:51:12 this seems like it shouldn't be that hard, but I'm having a hard time seeing how to do it straightforwardly 05:51:25 oh 05:51:32 duh 05:53:03 what I really am saying is "the author of this document has the name which is the content of the element with id "foo"" 05:53:23 * GabeW wishes he could draw boxes and arrows in irc 05:53:40 N3? 05:54:00 i was trying that but it got too complcated and I don't know n3 well enough to give it justice 05:54:09 * GabeW tries n3 though 05:54:26 there is an anonymous node (author) 05:58:28 does that sound right, deltab? 06:03:13 umm... I do know that you need < > around # and #foo 06:03:33 ok, right - but in terms of expressing what I'm talking about.. 06:06:57 took me a while to realise you weren't trying to keep it out of the logs 06:09:14 hehe 06:09:15 oops 06:09:27 For the log --> # :hasAuthor [:hasName [:contentOf #foo]] to be clearer 06:09:47 <#> :hasAuthor [:hasName [:contentOf <#foo>]] 06:09:56 with <>s as required :-) 06:10:12 um, I'm going to reserve judgement on that for now, sorry 06:10:38 ok, actually just talking this out with you realigns my thinking greatly 06:10:56 ah, glad to be of some help 06:11:20 its one of those things where you walk into a room, ask someone a question, and then get the answer before they say anything 06:11:30 but you had to ask the question out loud to get the answer 06:11:39 * deltab nods 06:33:30 GabeW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:33:30 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:33:30 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:33:55 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:33:55 tansaku (~sam@n145-142.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:33:55 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 06:33:59 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 06:36:43 tav` (tav@host217-34-83-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:09:36 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:22:08 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC9D388F.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 08:23:01 AaronSw-UK has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:35:00 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACA99384.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 09:32:08 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:32:11 AaronSw-UK has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:19:28 AaronSw-ILRT (~Snak@dhcp-07.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack 12:14:34 AaronSw-ILRT has quit ("laters") 12:22:59 sbp (~sean@m517-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 12:25:38 * sbp caches up 12:26:52 Gabe's gone, but the semantics of the FragIDs of some content depends upon the MIME type with which it is sent back 12:27:16 s/caches/catches/ 13:43:45 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:47:44 sbp (~sean@m788-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 14:00:10 [Global Notice] Hi all. Another netsplit in a moment, please bear with us while we reroute. 14:03:50 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m846-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 14:04:08 sbp (~sean@m846-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 14:04:49 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:21:26 AaronSw-ILRT (~Snak@dhcp-07.ilrt.bris.ac.uk) has joined #swhack 15:11:25 deus_x (~deusx@68.40.40.18) has joined #swhack 16:01:39 AaronSw-ILRT has quit ("brb") 16:03:31 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m553-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 16:03:49 sbp (~sean@m553-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:04:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:03:13 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m966-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 18:03:31 sbp (~sean@m966-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:11:04 kmacleod (~kmacleod@chomsky.casbah.org) has joined #swhack 18:11:32 kmacleod has left #swhack 18:40:45 * sbp listens to TSRTS with Stu 19:50:04 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:05:25 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:30:22 sbp (~sean@m879-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:49:50 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m359-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:50:08 sbp (~sean@m359-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:50:29 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 21:05:41 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACA24311.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 21:08:47 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m442-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 21:09:05 sbp (~sean@m442-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:10:46 AaronSw-UK has changed the topic to: Everybody's talkin' 'bout the iPod... 21:11:07 AaronSw-UK has changed the topic to: Everybody's talkin' 'bout the iWalk... 21:11:12 "I'm going where the sun keeps shining, through the pouring rain" 21:11:19 .google iWalk 21:11:20 iWalk: http://www.spymac.com 21:20:10 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m923-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 21:20:29 sbp (~sean@m923-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:32:52 GabeW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 21:32:52 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 21:34:06 .seen AaronSw 21:34:07 AaronSw seen joining #rdfig ~ 15 hr(s) 12 sec(s) ago 21:36:26 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 21:36:26 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 21:37:29 AaronSw-UK has quit ("Snak 4.8 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.") 21:40:24 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m567-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 21:40:37 SeanP (~sean@m567-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:43:51 sbp (~sean@m581-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:48:01 SeanP has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m581-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 22:20:58 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:28:35 BenSw (Snak@ACA4A10E.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 22:29:12 hello 23:10:08 deus_x has quit ("Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.0.1") 23:22:20 sbp (~sean@m37-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:26:46 BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 23:29:42 logster, grep http.*swag.*n3 23:30:37 I'm logging. I found 13 answers for 'http.*swag.*n3' (showing 0...4) 23:30:38 0) 2002-01-03 23:29:42 logster, grep http.*swag.*n3 23:30:39 1) 2001-12-14 02:12:20 E::People can go to a URI like http://purl.org/swag/wiki/blargh and it will bring up a Notation3 version of the files at blargh.n3 and blargh.rdf 23:30:40 2) 2001-12-14 02:11:02 E:People can go to a URI like http://purl.org/swag/wiki/blargh and it will bring up a Notation3 version of the files at blargh.n3 and blargh.rdf 23:30:41 3) 2001-12-04 00:15:51 - http://purl.org/swag/n3tordf?text=@prefix+%3A+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwebns.net%2Froughterms%2F%3E+.%0D%0A%3ASean+%3AhasHomepage+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fpurl.org%2Fnet%2Fsbp%2F%3E+. 23:30:42 4) 2001-12-03 17:00:10 http://purl.org/swag/n3tordf?text=@prefix+%3A+%3C%23%3E+.%0D%0A@prefix+rdf%3A++%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F1999%2F02%2F22-rdf-syntax-ns%23%3E+.%0D%0A@prefix+earl%3A+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2001%2F03%2Fearl%2F0.95%23%3E+.%0D%0A@prefix+log%3A+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F10%2Fswap%2Flog%23%3E+.%0D%0A%0D%0Athis+log%3AforAll+%3Ap+%2C+%3Aq+%2C+%3Ar+%2C+%3As+%2C+%3Ax+%2C+%3Ay+.%0D%0A%0D%0A%7B+%3Ap+earl%3Aasserts+%3Aq+.+%3Ar+earl%3Aasserts+%3As+. 23:34:54 GabeW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:34:54 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:36:16 tansaku (~sam@n146-091.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:36:16 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 23:36:16 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 23:53:12 [Global Notice] Hi all. We've run into some problems with server routing configuration which we believe we have corrected. We'll need to do some splits and rejoins. Please bear with us. 23:54:02 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:54:02 GabeW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:54:02 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:56:33 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 23:56:33 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 23:56:33 tansaku (~sam@n146-091.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 2002-01-04.txt0100644000014300000000000002576407415440756011711 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:29 [Global Notice] Europe seems to be resolved, Australia is next 00:01:46 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:01:46 GabeW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:01:46 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:01:46 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:02:11 tansaku (~sam@n146-091.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:02:11 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:02:11 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 00:02:11 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:02:14 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 00:02:18 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[~swhack-lo@205.253.219.118] (Killed (saberhagen.openprojects.net (Ghosted, forward.openprojects.net doesn't exist)))) 00:02:46 logster (~swhack-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 00:02:46 topic is: Everybody's talkin' 'bout the iWalk... 00:02:46 Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw deltab 00:03:02 tansaku (~sam@n146-091.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:03:02 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:02 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 00:03:02 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:09 sbp (~sean@m37-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:19 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 00:07:32 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 00:09:08 tav` (tav@host217-34-83-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 00:17:00 [Global Notice] Hi all. Looks like the exercise was successful. The server config generator seems to have had a nice little bug removed. Thanks for your patience. 00:45:32 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 01:21:41 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m453-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:21:59 sbp (~sean@m453-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:20:32 tansaku (~sam@n146-183.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 03:18:08 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:22:29 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m584-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 03:22:47 sbp (~sean@m584-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:48:54 hazmat has left #swhack 04:29:06 tansaku (~sam@h134-180.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:44:50 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m646-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 05:45:09 sbp (~sean@m646-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:59:38 * sbp listens to "Take Me Home" 05:59:46 Another incredible "unreleased" Zep song 06:00:11 And nearly as good as "Say You Gonna Leave Me" 06:02:03 * sbp listens to the above 06:15:44 * sbp works on /misc 06:40:31 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:41:44 tansaku has quit () 09:53:37 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACAD5AD1.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 10:53:00 AaronSw-UK has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:38:31 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:19:25 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:00:57 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:49:54 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 16:52:31 sbp (~sean@m412-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:26:00 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m13-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 17:26:16 sbp (~sean@m13-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:36:36 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m632-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 17:36:49 SeanP (~sean@m632-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:39:40 SeanP has quit (Client Quit) 17:39:51 sbp (~sean@m632-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:52:51 deus_x has quit ("Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.0.1") 17:57:39 mmphosis (~Snak@h24-81-108-110.wk.shawcable.net) has joined #swhack 18:00:13 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC983745.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 18:00:15 AaronSw-UK has quit (Client Quit) 18:00:26 BenSw (Snak@AC983745.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 18:00:27 BenSw has left #swhack 18:00:46 BenSw (Snak@AC983745.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 18:01:05 Hi everybody 18:01:56 greetings 18:14:27 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:31:26 mmphosis has left #swhack 18:33:11 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 18:39:15 Chuck_Boy (maurice@host217-35-148-49.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 18:40:43 helloo? 'tis charlie here. tap. tap 18:41:52 Chuck_Boy has left #swhack 18:42:26 Chuck_Boy (maurice@host217-35-148-49.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 18:44:36 BenSw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:49:43 Chuck_Boy has left #swhack 18:55:16 Chuck_Boy (maurice@host217-35-148-49.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 19:04:15 Chuck_Boy has left #swhack 20:02:06 sbp (~sean@m220-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:07:07 Hmm... I wonder if I can get the laternate take to "Take Me Home" from somewhere? 20:29:23 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:57:18 BenSw (Snak@AC8779F0.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 20:57:42 Hello 21:21:07 sbp (~sean@m176-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:28:27 @ telnet://towel.blinkenlights.nl/ 21:28:31 A: telnet://towel.blinkenlights.nl/ from sbp 21:30:32 A:|Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope 21:30:33 titled item A 21:30:38 A::Through telnet 21:30:39 commented item A 21:40:02 .google blanu AChord 21:40:03 blanu AChord: http://blanu.net 21:41:35 A::"telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl", if the link doesn't work 21:41:36 commented item A 21:43:37 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m79-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:43:55 sbp (~sean@m79-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:44:05 wb sbp 21:44:27 ty 21:44:29 @ http://www.venge.net/graydon/markup-abuse.html 21:44:48 B: http://www.venge.net/graydon/markup-abuse.html from sbp 21:44:55 B:|bloody hell, you left it turned on all night! 21:44:55 titled item B 21:44:56 Prison guard: Ooo art class La-Ti-Da 21:45:11 B::Article about XML, markup abuse, and other things 21:45:11 commented item B 21:45:24 prison guard: Ooo Solitary La-Ti-Da 21:45:29 Homer: There's an Air and Space Museum 21:46:03 Chief Wiggum:theres No air in space 21:46:18 Heh, heh, heh 21:46:40 Er... I don't think that's Chief Wiggum saying that 21:47:23 ya it was he was telling marge why the guy was not let out because of his art 21:47:42 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 21:47:50 wb hazmat 21:47:50 I'm pretty sure that it was the prison warden 21:48:11 .google "There's an Air and Space Museum" "no air in space" 21:48:13 "There's an Air and Space Museum" "no air in space": /url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/6612&e=42 21:48:20 I'm pretty sure it was Wiggum 21:49:15 """Homer: "Air?" Prison Warden: "There's 21:49:15 no air in space." Homer: "There's an air and space museum!" -The Simpsons 21:49:23 """ - http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=4&q=http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kevhav/&e=42 21:49:26 I thank you 21:50:27 I pretty sure it was wiggum... how do you know that it's right info? 21:50:45 I watched it the other day, and I don't usually misquote. It was the Prison Warden 21:51:05 Homer: For the record, NBC bad, FOX good (quickly) CBS great, (Gun Shots) 21:51:45 independent source:- 21:51:46 [[[ 21:51:47 The warden goes, "Isn't that stupid? I mean... what's the unicorn supposed to be breathing in space anyway?" My boy Homer goes, "Air." The warden goes, "There's no air in space." And Homer. Of course goes. 21:51:47 "There's an Air and Space Museum..." 21:51:54 ]]] - http://cubiclegirl.diaryland.com/010611_13.html 21:52:11 Nice. Punctuation. On that site. 21:53:00 * BenSw checks smpp 21:53:12 s/m/n/ 21:54:20 Gotta run, c'ya :-) 21:54:26 whats the episode name? 21:54:31 cya 21:55:24 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:05:16 BenSw has left #swhack 22:57:23 sbp (~sean@m40-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:57:43 * sbp was delightfully surprised to find a new series of Frasier has started 22:58:05 With an hour-long first episode. Quite good, as well 22:59:50 * sbp plays "Custard Pie", Led Zeppelin 23:00:25 Hmm... I'm making a profile for HTML link types, and I'm wondering about representing the author 23:00:44 Do we say: :x :authorName :y . or :x :author [ :name :y ] . # ? 23:01:49 TimBL has argued that the latter is more convenient, I think... in contact.n3 23:02:07 [[[ 23:02:22 dc:description """ 23:02:23 To illustrate with examples the creation of a schema of RDF properties 23:02:23 and classes, but using abstract things for people, rather than strings, etc. 23:02:23 If you have an "Assistant's phone number", thenreally you have an assitant who has 23:02:23 a phone number - and that is much more useful in general. 23:02:23 For example, when data about you and your assietnt in merged, 23:02:25 you will end up with an "assistant's email" and the like. 23:02:27 """; 23:02:36 ]]] - http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/contact.n3, $Id: contact.n3,v 1.11 2001/11/05 17:04:37 connolly Exp $ 23:02:55 How do they get the fecking CVS IDs to work? I should ask them 23:03:27 [Didn't work on 0.95.n3] 23:04:03 substitutions are done on checkout/update 23:04:32 Yeah, but even the W3T couldn't figure out how to get the Id working 23:04:43 new URI scheme on channel 4: fear://main 23:05:40 Heh, heh. As soon as Frasier finished, I was ordered to turn to QVC, and happily obliged :-) 23:08:23 Aaron's right, y'know - Georgia is a wonderful font. Don't tell him he's right though 23:09:29 * sbp adjusts the font in his IRC client 23:09:39 ooh, weird. Feels like I'm reading a newspaper 23:10:13 * sbp changes it back 23:58:58 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC94BA12.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 23:59:42 AaronSw-UK has quit (Client Quit) 2002-01-05.txt0100644000014300000000000005271107415711131011666 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:00 BenSw (Snak@AC94BA12.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 00:00:25 Fighting over the keyboard? 00:00:28 Hello 00:00:48 Hi 00:01:29 No... Snak auto connects to aaron's thing when it's open 00:01:49 Ah 00:04:37 * sbp auto updates /misc 00:06:48 * sbp listens to "The Wanton Song" 00:09:47 sbp: I have a question about that Beatles CD you have(the one with all the songs on it)..... does it have 'The Christmas Album"? Cause I found one copy at a record store for £257 00:10:20 @ http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt6/html-email-fonts.htm 00:10:26 A: http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt6/html-email-fonts.htm from sbp 00:10:27 £257! 00:10:35 ! 00:10:41 A:|Fonts: Serif vs. Sans-Serif 00:10:42 titled item A 00:10:59 I don't see any called 'The Christmas Album' 00:10:59 A::Sans-serif wins out on this one, because it's easier to read on screen media 00:11:00 commented item A 00:11:10 I think it had never been played 00:11:11 .google Beatles "Christmas Album" 00:11:12 Beatles "Christmas Album": http://www.discographynet.com/beatles/bttbca.html 00:11:57 I dunno, and I'm playing Physical Graffiti at the moment, so it'll be a while until I check :-) 00:12:18 Sure 00:13:16 sbp: is yours 'Ultimate Beatles' (black text on red)? 00:13:41 It's a disc that a friend gave to me... I was like, "er... wow. Thanks" 00:14:00 Of course, I have the albums anyway, but not the rare bits etc. 00:15:40 Nah, it doesn't have the Christmas one 00:18:43 does it have "rare interviews", Stars on 45 mix and teh Savage Young Beatles? 00:19:28 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m880-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 00:19:44 sbp (~sean@m880-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:20:37 Nope, no interviews... 00:20:59 .google "Carnival Of Light" Beatles 00:21:00 "Carnival Of Light" Beatles: http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/carnival.htm 00:25:14 I found a minute long clip of that song somewhere 00:26:58 Hmm I guess I was wrong about the let it be 45 being the only record to have 'you know my name' I just got a record called "the Beatle's Rarities" which has it on it 00:27:22 ooh, neat 00:30:41 * BenSw looks for the Carnival of Light clip 00:32:49 It seems that a band named "Dead Can Dance" made a song by the same name 00:34:31 Yeah, I spotted that. Someone else made an album of that name too 00:36:59 from that article from "abbeyrd.best.vwh.net" it seems they released a record with the song on it... And it also seems that they record magazine has the record and is not giving the public the song 00:39:26 sbp: I found one on audiogalaxy, I dont have my satilite running can you get it 00:42:54 I have it 00:43:10 What do you want me to do with it? :-) 00:44:26 How long is it? 00:45:15 Ooh: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/strawberry-fields.html 00:45:15 988KB 00:46:19 Thats short 00:46:51 Yep 00:49:07 No.. everyone else here is asleep... I'll get it when I get back home 01:08:56 * BenSw is going to sleep 01:08:56 BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 02:09:35 Morbus (~Morbus@s85.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 02:09:42 logster, grep twolevel_ 02:10:49 I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'twolevel_' 02:10:51 0) 2002-01-05 02:09:42 logster, grep twolevel_ 02:11:15 Morbus has left #swhack 02:13:27 Morbus? 02:13:28 Ooh 02:19:17 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m879-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:19:30 sbp (~sean@m879-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:02:40 Wow, fuck 03:02:53 This German edit of SFF is incredible, through headphones 03:14:54 heh:- 03:14:57 [[[ 03:14:57 Maybe there's an aspect of 'better' to dropping the #docs fragment that I 03:14:57 didn't understand? 03:15:44 ]]] - Al Gilman, www-qa 03:16:10 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa/2002Jan/0003 03:57:37 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:18:59 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m5-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 04:19:14 sbp (~sean@m5-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:19:49 [Global Notice] Hi all. Non-critical comments and announcements appear from time to time on WALLOPS along with detailed server administrative info. To display those messages: "/mode +w". Thanks. 05:04:32 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:37:02 tansaku (~sam@n145-067.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:59:57 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:00:27 sbp (~sean@m5-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:02:11 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:28:07 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 06:31:12 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:31:29 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:56:59 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:35:01 tansaku (~sam@h134-239.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:02:01 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:43:21 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:22 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:52:46 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 09:52:46 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 11:20:06 tansaku (~sam@h133-066.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:16:21 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:07:13 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACA91F5B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 14:07:30 AaronSw-UK has left #swhack 14:07:43 BenSw (Snak@ACA91F5B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 14:19:07 Hello 14:28:58 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:28:58 BenSw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:09:00 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16:32:12 sbp (~sean@m727-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:33:26 sbp has changed the topic to: Everybody's talkin' 'bout the iWalk... (except us) 16:46:43 sbp has changed the topic to: Everybody's talkin' 'bout the iWalk... ('cept us) 16:47:00 To keep the theme running 16:49:22 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACA8CA2E.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 16:49:50 howdy doodily 16:50:11 heh, heh 16:50:12 Hi 16:51:34 Hi there. 16:54:50 Will 'Plex be truly anonymous? 16:57:57 Optionally. 16:58:08 Good 17:02:39 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m474-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 17:02:59 sbp (~sean@m474-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:40:49 A::Just wait until we get [electronic paper|http://www.eink.com/]... 17:40:50 commented item A 17:44:44 AaronSw-UK has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:45:11 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC8B1DBE.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 17:45:23 * sbp was just watching TOTP2... 17:45:36 I couldn't believe it, Page and Plant came on, and did Crossroads! 17:45:38 AaronSw-UK has changed the topic to: Plex those muscles! 17:45:48 TOTP? 17:45:51 I've never taken a tape out of a box and crammed it into the machine so fast... 17:45:57 Music show on BBC2 17:46:04 heh heh, cool 17:46:29 I was like "aaaargh! quick! quick! OMG, there's another tape in there, get it out, get it out!" 17:46:42 Sounds familiar. 17:47:28 * AaronSw-UK adds a 2002 archive link to the website 18:03:20 @ http://homepage.mac.com/macdomeeu/dev/current/openag/ 18:03:24 B: Eric Seidel - OpenAG from AaronSw-UK 18:04:05 B::A GPL/LGPL AudioGalaxy client for UNIX and OS X 18:04:06 commented item B 18:09:12 http://www.vertexdev.com/patent_wiki/index.php?page=PatentWiki 18:09:25 ooops -> #rdfig 18:17:47 So, Aaron, what's worse: copyright law or patent law? 18:20:28 Hmm, that's a trickly question! 18:21:34 tricky, even 18:22:16 New http://zooko.com/ 18:23:17 Pff... where have you been? It's been like that for weeks, unless he's changed it again 18:25:18 I've been in the UK, if you haven't noticed. :-) 18:25:42 Ah, of course 18:27:23 Gotta run 18:27:44 c'ya 18:29:03 gotta run 18:29:06 AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner") 18:53:15 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:22:23 sbp (~sean@m569-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:01:58 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC85341B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 21:13:45 Welcome 21:21:16 Wow, McCusker is listening:- 21:21:17 [[[ 21:21:17 http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/Primer.html 21:21:18 http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 21:21:18 (Yes, that means I found a chat session between AaronSw and sbp. :-) 21:21:23 ]]] - http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6200?mode=topic 21:21:41 Yeah, that was cool. :-) 21:23:32 Did you see that Morbus had popped in briefly? 21:23:43 logster, grep 21:24:56 I'm logging. I found 10954 answers for '' (showing 0...4) 21:24:57 0) 2002-01-05 21:23:43 logster, grep 21:24:58 1) 2002-01-05 02:11:15 Morbus has left #swhack 21:24:59 2) 2002-01-05 02:09:42 logster, grep twolevel_ 21:25:01 3) 2002-01-05 02:09:35 Morbus (~Morbus@s85.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 21:25:02 4) 2001-12-24 17:41:38 Morbus has left #swhack 21:25:07 * sbp waits impatiently 21:25:44 Earlier today, in fact 21:59:32 @ http://searchrequests.weblogs.com/ 22:02:38 C: Disturbing Search Requests from sbp 22:03:06 C::More wonderful nonsense from the vicinity of weblogs.com. Ah, the hillarity 22:04:17 commented item C 22:05:15 C::""warm and fuzzy" tingle me rabbi" gets the swhack award for both funniest and most disturbing search result 22:05:18 commented item C 22:05:53 C::Or would that be "request"? I don't know what I'm typing anymore 22:05:53 commented item C 22:06:30 "football biting penis" and "to much to drink my husband peed his pants" are both pretty good, too 22:08:41 heh 22:12:45 Junior01 (~junior01@dl-dtg-gyn-C89A4434.p001.terra.com.br) has joined #swhack 22:16:15 Hmm... 22:16:16 [[[ 22:16:18 Star Wars via telnet: towel.blinkenlights.nl [A must see that raises the question: Do people have too much time on their hands?] 22:16:28 ]]] - http://archipelago.phrasewise.com/2002/01/01 22:16:44 Another swhack reader? Oh, actually, did we chump that after him? 22:16:55 Where'd you get the link from? 22:17:12 Someone mentioned it on another channel in OPN 22:17:23 - #iA, I think 22:17:34 It's an awfully old thing. 22:17:48 I hadn't come across it until then 22:21:49 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m413-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 22:22:05 sbp (~sean@m413-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:23:16 That theme is catching on: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001134/ 22:25:25 Tsk, you could have at least been original with Plexdev :-) 22:25:47 Heh, I wish I could draw like that. 22:26:44 Good advice (from that page): "I've decided that I'm going to start writing book reviews after each book I read." 22:28:08 yeah, i tried to do that a while back 22:28:13 Mark Bernstein does that. 22:28:21 Why'd you give up? 22:28:37 It was too hard to keep up, really. 22:28:42 Let's see... 22:29:47 @ isbn:0465042252 22:29:49 D: isbn:0465042252 from AaronSw-UK 22:30:32 D::Buy: [Amazon|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465042252/coolbooks02], [isbn.nu|http://isbn.nu/0465042252] 22:30:33 commented item D 22:30:47 D:|Go to: The Story of the Math Majors, Bridge Players, Engineers, Chess Wizards, Scientists and Iconoclasts who were the Hero Programmers of the Software Revolution 22:30:48 titled item D 22:31:14 * sbp plays some Billie Holliday 22:31:58 D::A good book -- I knew much of the history, but many of the anecdotes and short histories in this book were new to me. The author writes well, tying everything together very nicely, but his dumbed-down explanations of technical concepts are a bit grating at times. 22:32:00 commented item D 22:33:36 Ok? 22:33:43 Thank you 22:34:24 Ooh, such as: "how, we're going to access the "Internet". Grip your "mouse" in your hands, and move it..." 22:34:29 s/how/now/ 22:34:38 Heh heh. 22:35:21 Google seems to index 1,550,000,000 pages. (approx.) 22:36:05 googling for "to" 22:37:14 * AaronSw-UK notes to visit http://stream.apple.akadns.net/ when he gets home from the plane 22:37:26 hope it won't be too overloaded 22:38:14 How big are the swhack archives? 22:39:13 why don't you download them and see? :) 22:39:25 AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner") 22:39:37 Pff, great 22:39:53 That means I have to search for things, download them, and do all manner of crap 22:39:58 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC85341B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 22:40:00 Blargh 22:40:10 Ah, you're back 22:40:11 stupid f***ing OS 22:40:13 i hate os 9 22:40:48 lol 22:41:15 i hit "update software" and it thought i meant "quit out of all apps" 22:41:51 Heh, heh 22:41:59 umm, no -- just visit http://blogspace.com/swhack/archives.tgz 22:42:03 Intuition gone wrong 22:42:13 Aha, that's what I was searching for 22:42:20 The requested URL was not found on this server 22:42:46 take off the s? 22:43:52 nope 22:45:35 logster, grep 1-10 swhack.*tgz 22:46:00 I'm logging. I found 4 answers for 'swhack.*tgz' (showing 1...4) 22:46:01 1) 2002-01-05 22:41:59 umm, no -- just visit http://blogspace.com/swhack/archives.tgz 22:46:02 2) 2001-12-20 19:54:11 http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/textlogs.tgz 22:46:03 3) 2001-12-10 04:34:37 http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/textlogs.tgz 22:46:14 ah 22:46:32 1.37 MB targzipped 22:47:03 logster, grep 0-0 <.*> 22:47:13 I'm logging. I found 69904 answers for '<.*>' (showing 0...0) 22:47:14 0) 2002-01-05 22:47:03 logster, grep 0-0 <.*> 22:47:16 logster, grep 0-0 22:47:24 I'm logging. I found 21358 answers for '' (showing 0...0) 22:47:25 0) 2002-01-05 22:47:16 logster, grep 0-0 22:47:27 we need to get the stats stuff from dajobe 22:47:28 Yeah 22:48:10 (21358/69904)*100=30.553330281528953994048981460288 22:48:30 .google irc stats software unix 22:48:31 irc stats software unix: http://www.freshmeat.net 22:50:06 "I know a lot of you might be thinking 'Not another new language! I'm perfectly happy with [COBOL|C|cshell|awk|Perl|...]; why does the world need another programming language?!'" - http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/358/ 22:50:10 Notice he doesn't say Python. ;-) 22:50:47 Hmm... what shall we infer from that? 22:50:48 @ http://selfserve.osdn.com/introduction.html 22:50:50 E: OSDN - Self Serve Ad System from AaronSw-UK 22:50:58 E::Get your name on Slashdot! 22:50:58 commented item E 22:51:09 I read that Ruby thing 22:51:34 E::OSDN jumps on the do-it-yourself ads bandwagon ([1|http://www.httpads.com/], [2|http://www.pyrads.com]). 22:51:35 commented item E 22:52:07 I love your link titling 22:52:44 Yeah... I felt bad about that. 22:52:48 I wonder if you can set up "this site sucks, go away!" adverts? 22:52:48 XMLhack does that sort of thing. 22:53:00 Heh heh! 22:53:08 We should add a link titling mechanism to the chumpster 22:53:21 And by "we" I mean, of course, "you" 22:53:25 Ooh, we can get stats like this: http://verplant.org/onis/sample/ 22:53:31 you: don't you always 22:56:42 True 22:56:56 Hey, using my clipboard... 22:57:08 Hmm, I wonder what type of logs we're using? 22:57:17 O.K., 4.03MB in total 22:58:12 so 4030*0.30553330281528953994048981460288=1231.2992103456168459601739528461 22:58:28 Great, I've written 1.23MB of crap on this channel 22:58:51 By comparison, Walden is 648KB 22:58:58 heh heh 22:59:32 War and Peace is only 3.2MB. Give us a year or two... 22:59:48 I guess it doesn't like out log format: 22:59:50 All data read. 22:59:50 Illegal division by zero at ./onis.pl line 445. 23:00:01 Heh, neat. We got it to divide by zero 23:00:07 s/we/you 23:00:16 s/you/you\// 23:00:36 in fact, I think I'm going to set up an alias 23:00:45 sweu=s/we/you/ 23:00:53 there we go 23:00:54 sweu 23:01:21 :-) 23:01:27 sounds swhacky 23:01:43 Yep, it sure does. That's the name of the game... er, channel 23:02:03 Anyone want to modify this regexp for me? if ($line =~ /^\@(\d+)\s\<([^!]+)\!([^>]+)\>\s(.*)/) 23:02:11 No 23:02:33 I see a scalar, and "=~", and I think, "Perl". And I think "No" 23:03:04 And that's before I even got to the RegExp 23:03:14 Which looks quite comely in comparison 23:03:23 Well, perhaps not 23:04:29 I presume this is chumpster's little "RegExp out URIs" thingy? 23:04:47 No, this is the log file reader for that stat thing 23:04:55 i guess we can just bother dajobe tomorrow 23:04:56 sweu 23:05:02 Heh, heh, heh 23:05:33 I wonder who Junior01 is? Will it speak up? 23:06:02 Seems to be a Debian User. 23:06:21 How did it find us? What are it's views on the current economic situation in Europe? What's Debian got to do with anything? Why am I asking questions? Where will the madness end 23:06:23 ? 23:07:08 You. Me. You. You. Never. 23:07:40 alternately we could have stats like this: http://web.archive.org/web/20010614020337/cacodemon.despayre.ath.cx/stats.html 23:07:58 O.K., so, to summarize the first question: sbp: How did it find us? AaronSw: You. What are you talking about? Ugh, you'll only answer "Me" 23:08:23 You. 23:08:29 We could do, but I'd prefer a good stats. format 23:08:33 Aaaaargh 23:08:53 Actually, it's not bad 23:09:02 Heh he. 23:09:03 But their record is 3112? 23:10:07 it must be for some small period of tim 23:10:16 So, Aaron, without giving a URI, looking on Google, or reminscing about past articles, what is the Semantic Web? 23:10:23 small period of Tim? 23:11:21 We should really have a +P by now. What's up with that? 23:11:28 Yo, lilo, give us a +P 23:11:34 heh: arioch kept saying "heh", a whole 216 times in fact 23:11:50 logster, grep -i Heh, heh, heh 23:12:01 I'm logging. I found 137 answers for ' Heh, heh, heh' (showing 0...4) 23:12:02 0) 2002-01-05 23:11:50 logster, grep -i Heh, heh, heh 23:12:03 1) 2002-01-05 23:05:02 Heh, heh, heh 23:12:04 2) 2002-01-01 01:37:28 Heh, heh, heh 23:12:05 3) 2001-12-31 14:05:33 Heh, heh, heh 23:12:06 4) 2001-12-31 14:00:45 Heh, heh, heh. 23:12:09 137*3 23:12:19 Ah, that one with the period isn't me 23:12:22 136*3 23:12:35 408. Not bad 23:13:13 I'd like a distribution of that printed out 23:15:13 * AaronSw-UK to ESP: NASTIIH - No Attention Span To Invent It Here ;-) 23:15:18 This channel can be so... very... exciting, sometimes 23:15:38 MmmHmm? 23:16:11 I'm still working out the orthography for the little "I don't know" mumble on The Simpsons 23:16:33 Iummmohh? 23:16:37 Nah 23:16:55 I was very disappointed with whats-her-bird's ta taa taa taa ta taaaa 23:19:29 Come again? 23:19:36 Why is the Internet so e-rational? 23:19:38 Sorry... 23:20:42 What is her bird's? 23:21:13 No really, I like talking to myself 23:21:44 Well, and all of the swhack devoted log reading people 23:21:55 Let's call them "swaggys" 23:22:23 ok, i'm going to sleep now 23:22:24 nite 23:22:32 Heh, heh. 'night 23:22:38 :-) 23:22:47 AaronSw-UK has quit ("sleep") 23:23:18 sbp goes a bit nuts, AaronSw departs... normal behaviour 23:42:03 tansaku (~sam@h131-020.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:55:05 hazmat has left #swhack 2002-01-06.txt0100644000014300000000000005505107416162300011666 0ustar nobodyroot00:01:50 Junior01 has quit ("BitchX-1.0c18 -- just do it.") 00:04:04 tav` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:05:41 tav` (tav@host217-34-83-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 00:21:26 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m105-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 00:21:45 sbp (~sean@m105-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:08:29 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:21:13 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m382-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:21:34 sbp (~sean@m382-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:33:26 * sbp does some reading 02:33:30 .time 02:33:30 2002/01/06 02:35:08.36354 Universal 02:34:09 The Longest Day was a while ago, and yet the sun seems to keep setting earlier. I guess it's getting light much earlier 03:31:07 tansaku (~sam@h132-068.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 03:45:53 .google "The Right To Read" 03:45:55 "The Right To Read": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html 04:24:34 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m502-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:24:52 sbp (~sean@m502-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:35:14 That'd be a cool word: classificatiana 05:35:38 adj. that which pertains to classification 05:37:13 adj.? n. 05:39:47 could be adjectival too - ooh, that's very classificatiana 05:39:53 Perhaps not 05:48:52 * sbp does a bit of site redesign 05:49:50 Is light text on dark background frowned upon? 05:50:04 .google design "light text" "dark background" 05:50:05 design "light text" "dark background": http://www.unplug.com/great/tips/tip80.htm 05:50:10 .google design "light text" "dark background" site:useit.com 05:50:11 no results found. 05:50:24 .google contrast text background site:useit.com 05:50:24 contrast text background site:useit.com: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/991114.html 05:51:58 not by me :-) 05:54:00 Ah, deltab supports it. That's good enough for me 05:54:33 Trouble is, I always end up using fff white on 000 black, because my screen gamma ratio is so low 05:54:38 mind you, every site is light on dark for me :-) 05:54:48 You set a user CSS sheet? 05:54:57 no 05:55:35 my browser only allows black as bg 05:55:48 Neat. What browser do you use? 05:56:29 Links (links.sf.net) on Linux console 05:57:24 Quite nice 06:22:09 avan (~fairooz@210.187.150.13) has joined #swhack 06:22:30 avan has left #swhack 06:30:08 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:39:59 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:20:31 xena has quit () 08:21:10 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 08:23:30 xena has quit (Client Quit) 08:24:23 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 08:48:39 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:25:00 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:53:54 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:12:30 tansaku is now known as tansaku_staring_into_space 10:12:53 tansaku_staring_into_space is now known as tansaku 11:15:35 tansaku has quit (Connection timed out) 11:16:17 tansaku (~sam@h132-091.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:25:46 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:15:55 atari6pak (~atari@c18396.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #swhack 16:43:43 atari6pak is now known as atariboy 16:52:35 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC95A302.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 16:52:43 That was cool. 16:53:00 * AaronSw-UK just got back from the Sherlock Holmes museum 16:53:03 Hey atariboy! 16:53:24 We also went to Abbey Road today. 16:54:24 For sbp, I do note that I've seen a couple instances of :- here. One of them being at the Tower of London. ;-) 16:57:54 AaronSw: yo! 16:58:11 What're you doing here? 16:58:13 oh, AaronSw-UK 16:58:21 what y ain the UK for? 16:58:39 in here for you :) 16:58:58 cause your here, and not on esp 16:59:03 irc 16:59:57 cool 17:00:02 i'm in the UK on vacation 17:00:09 cool! 17:00:13 meeting tav? 17:00:25 already did 17:01:03 what was that like? 17:01:06 :) 17:01:57 * AaronSw-UK wonders if he should really answer that ;-) 17:03:01 lol 17:03:06 you don thave to :) 17:05:23 :-) 17:13:50 sbp (~sean@m95-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:16:08 * AaronSw-UK fills out http://www.fairvue.com/?feature=awards2002 17:16:33 Heh, heh, heh 17:16:52 Who are you nominating? 17:17:24 Argh, we need merchandise! 17:18:27 yeah 17:18:35 I bet we don't win gblt again this year. It's such a fix 17:19:20 Hmm... we should get best-kept-secret weblog, IMO :-) 17:20:25 Heh, in Blogdex: "all-time link index: 8387 " 17:21:47 Ok, my nominees: BoingBoing, Syndic8, CHump, ANnotea, Crit, Bernstein, RDF IG, Swhack, HTP, Zooko, Swhack, Swhack, Swhack, Jorn. 17:22:12 that's less than a third, right? 17:22:24 lol 17:22:33 Lifetime achievment? Dear oh dear 17:23:00 Hooray! You went for gblt 17:23:14 I think that we have a real chance this year, if the judges keep open-minded 17:23:20 Heh heh. 17:23:29 lol: http://homepage.mac.com/toasters/humor/applehomepage/hours/5min.jpg 17:23:59 Heh, that's pretty good 17:24:16 Chump it! We need all the info we can put out there :-) 17:24:32 @ http://homepage.mac.com/toasters/humor/applehomepage/ 17:24:36 A: Apple's Hompage (MWSF 02) from AaronSw-UK 17:24:52 A::via [BoingBoing|http://www.boingboing.net/] 17:24:53 commented item A 17:25:13 Gotta run 17:25:24 c'ya 17:26:25 A::I especially like the [5|http://homepage.mac.com/toasters/humor/applehomepage/hours/5min.jpg], [4|http://homepage.mac.com/toasters/humor/applehomepage/hours/4.jpg] countdown. 17:26:26 commented item A 17:48:01 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:50:01 atariboy, have a weblog? 17:51:18 AaronSw: no, not really 17:51:25 I post lots on my forums though 17:52:31 http://forums.atariboy.com 18:32:38 AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner") 18:57:16 atariboy is now known as atariBed 18:59:52 sbp (~sean@m988-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 19:02:56 Argh, blogspace.com is being a butt again 19:10:48 Ah, it's working now 19:53:09 deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:54:10 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC8861D7.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 19:58:20 @ http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6799?mode=topic 19:58:26 B: Hack the Planet Prime: Sony CELL: New architecture & OS to fight WinTel from AaronSw-UK 19:59:02 B:|CELL: The (P2P) Network is the Computer 19:59:03 titled item B 20:00:02 B::Jointly developed by Sony, IBM and Toshiba with the father of the PlayStations. The [interview with him|http://ne.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/2001/30aniv/int5_1.html] is quite interesting. 20:00:03 commented item B 20:00:51 B::"I would like to stress is that the concept of packaging, or box, would disappear in the broadband era. Same thing can be said of the concept of servers and clients. A band of CELL would assume the role of the existing computer system and would establish a living organism like the real cell. [...] creation of another world is possible if we were able to collect CELLs that equal to the capacity of 5 billion people." 20:00:52 commented item B 20:03:08 Mmmkay 20:05:41 Meanwhile... 20:05:44 * sbp composes a new song 20:06:30 That chip's going to be rather expensive, isn't it... 20:06:54 Heh. 20:07:39 B::For those who can afford a supercomputer, but don't have a large enough room to put it in 20:07:41 commented item B 20:08:31 B::Not at all -- don't you see? The idea is to create a giant supercomputer by combining the speed of every computer in the world via fiber optic cable. 20:08:32 commented item B 20:09:13 B::And what's stopping anyone from doing that using existing hardware and software? 20:09:14 commented item B 20:10:58 B::Nothing, I guess. It's just interesting that big names are doing it. Every PlayStation user is a nice userbase to start from. 20:10:59 commented item B 20:11:12 Heh,h eh 20:13:07 B::It's an interesting development - I always get excited when an incredibly fast new chip is developed, or new networking ideas surface - I've just seen it often enough before. When the Alpha chip came out, people were stunned... now, my own computer is four times faster. The best desktop computers are nearly ten times as fast 20:13:08 commented item B 20:13:32 The Alpha? 20:13:44 Yeah, some old 200MHz thing, developed in 1993 20:15:49 hmz 20:16:03 can you strike everything i've said from the logs? 20:16:28 No, but I wish I could 20:16:38 Heh, heh 20:16:45 Why would we do a thing like that? 20:17:08 Although I presume a simple sed 's/ .*//' would do it 20:17:21 right 20:17:24 The power that Aaron has over us... 20:17:43 why would you want to do that, tav`? 20:18:58 Ooh! Actually, it's a wonderful idea! Do it for Morbus and I too, and it'll look like you've been speaking to yourself for months! Brilliant! 20:20:08 * AaronSw-UK laughs. 20:20:11 FelterLog FelterLog FelterLog! Don't you hear what I'm saying, Google? 20:20:59 lol 20:21:20 because google has info i don't really want it to have 20:21:38 ooh, like what? 20:21:45 .gooogle tav info not to be known 20:21:59 So does Alexa 20:22:12 So will the Plex 20:22:22 .google tav info not to be known 20:22:22 It scares the crap out of me too, but oh well 20:22:23 tav info not to be known: http://www.sanitred.com/More%20Basement%20Info.htm 20:22:54 B::Ooh: """According to the sources, the firms intend to make the source code of the finished OS available to other companies in an attempt to make it the global standard of the anticipated high-speed Internet age.""" 20:22:55 commented item B 20:23:51 .google tav extra secret info vuln 20:23:53 tav extra secret info vuln: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-20.txt 20:24:06 lol 20:25:00 seriously. what kind of stuff? 20:25:15 that info on your girlfriends wives sex scandal terrorism 20:25:57 [[[ 20:25:58 01:33:44 remember, java is the root of all evil! 20:25:58 01:33:48 chant after me! 20:25:58 01:33:53 java is the root of all evil! 20:26:03 ]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-20.txt 20:26:44 Sex scandal terrorism? What've you been drinking? 20:27:13 just trying to seed some google keywords 20:27:36 logster, grep |mail me@aaronsw.com 20:28:45 I'm logging. Mailed 1051 results to me@aaronsw.com 20:28:45 Like fuck drug alcaholic pencil shaving purple undergoat blanket foxing bizarre conservative rebellion Labor in scandellous libel with Chinese under frog FBI NSA funky in the toilet? 20:28:45 s/Like/Like:/ 20:28:45 alcaholic? 20:28:55 * sbp can't spell achlalholic 20:29:14 alcohol 20:29:54 logster, grep |mail tav@espians.com 20:30:16 I'm logging. Mailed 1051 results to tav@espians.com 20:30:21 hmz 20:30:30 logster, grep |mail tav@espians.com 20:30:44 I'm logging. Mailed 1197 results to tav@espians.com 20:30:44 1051 of each? 20:30:44 surely not? 20:30:44 is > a special character? 20:30:53 logster, grep |mail tav@espians.com 20:31:03 I'm logging. Mailed 1197 results to tav@espians.com 20:31:03 logster, grep |mail me@aaronsw.com 20:31:13 I'm logging. Mailed 1201 results to me@aaronsw.com 20:31:16 logster, grep |mail sean@mysterylights.com 20:31:28 I'm logging. Mailed 1856 results to sean@mysterylights.com 20:31:28 logster, grep purple.*frog |mail sean@mysterylights.com 20:31:37 I'm logging. Mailed 12 results to sean@mysterylights.com 20:31:43 Cool 20:31:48 logster, grep |mail me@aaronsw.com 20:32:00 I'm logging. Mailed 1857 results to me@aaronsw.com 20:32:13 hmz 20:32:32 hmm, is my email broken? 20:32:47 You should add a titling function, I wanted to do "title: Tav's secret knowledge, top secret" 20:33:01 titling what? 20:33:28 logster, grep |mail tav@espians.com 20:33:43 I'm logging. Mailed 1859 results to tav@espians.com 20:33:43 heh:- 20:33:43 [[[ 20:33:43 2001-09-11 01:26:42 hmz 20:33:43 2001-09-11 01:27:08 it's the meaning of life 20:33:43 2001-09-11 01:27:24 every few lines, i utter the meaning of life 20:33:43 ]]] 20:33:43 titling the email that is sent 20:35:00 aha! 20:35:08 It's the homosexual references:- 20:35:09 [[[ 20:35:10 2001-09-11 02:46:11 and he stayed with me last month and we had lots of crazy sex 20:35:11 ]]] 20:35:52 ehm, what happens to the things you put inside [[[ ]]] ? 20:36:17 what do you mean? 20:36:37 are they outputted somewhere? 20:36:48 no... they're just quotes. like your -- 20:36:58 ah, good 20:37:05 * AaronSw-UK refrains from mentioning they're broadcasted directly to the prime minister of France. 20:37:18 that frog? 20:37:23 let him have it! 20:37:46 [[[ 20:37:47 * AaronSw-UK refrains from mentioning they're broadcasted directly to the prime minister of France. 20:37:47 that frog? 20:37:47 let him have it! 20:37:47 ]]] 20:37:55 Ooh, you're gonna get it now 20:38:05 He's gonna be sooooo pissed 20:38:51 2001-09-05 02:43:14 I've been here all along 20:38:55 Kick ass: 2001-10-29 04:16:21 20:39:56 swhack: home of tav's ethnic slurs 20:40:09 [[[ 20:40:09 with exception of present company, most americans are ugly 20:40:09 it's like seemingly where all the ugly fuckers go and get inbred 20:40:09 s/americans/french/ 20:40:09 ]]] 20:41:03 lol 20:41:12 I wonder what the context of this was: "2001-11-28 05:46:25 lots of oil and beautiful women" 20:42:07 Hmm: 20:42:10 * AaronSw adds espra to his list of cool places to work 20:42:10 * deltab notes AaronSw's addition, and plans something 20:42:14 I wonder what that somehting was. 20:43:52 Hmm... I didn't find anything too incriminating in the logs 20:45:55 Except tav's plan to blow up Parliament 20:46:12 Oh hang on, that was "#" commented out... sorry 20:46:13 :-) 20:46:59 I wonder how history would have changed had Guy Fawkes had managed it? 20:47:22 Heh heh. 20:47:47 Reading just the deltab comments is quite interesting. 20:48:02 of course: deltab is witty and insightful 20:48:07 Indeed. 20:48:18 tav tells me he's quite idealistic too. 20:48:30 I can only hope that I reach that stage of deltabism. 20:48:49 you should all try http://www.politicalcompass.org/ 20:49:11 Did it when it was on FoRK. 20:49:38 hmz 20:49:43 Where did you end up? I was quite near Gandhi, which is nice 20:49:51 Well, a little more Libertarian, perhaps 20:49:55 According to it 20:50:10 brb 20:50:48 Kinda in between Tony Benn and Charles Kennedy 20:50:52 Heh, heh. Dear oh dear 20:51:54 espians-political-views-graphical.htm 20:52:30 http://mu2.espnow.com/~talon/html/espians-political-views-graphical.htm 20:52:51 Oh, kick-ass 20:54:39 Y'have to be in that quadrant really 20:54:46 Gotta run 20:56:12 laters 20:56:55 logster, grep |mail tav@espians.com 20:57:17 I'm logging. Mailed 1203 results to tav@espians.com 20:57:25 logster, grep esp.* |mail tav@espians.com 20:57:45 I'm logging. Mailed 898 results to tav@espians.com 20:57:48 logster, grep espian.* |mail tav@espians.com 20:58:06 I'm logging. Mailed 46 results to tav@espians.com 20:59:09 logster, grep espian.* |mail tav@espians.com 20:59:39 I'm logging. Mailed 48 results to tav@espians.com 21:03:18 @ http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/23126.html 21:03:30 C: The Register from AaronSw-UK 21:04:04 C:|Cypherpunks RIP 21:04:05 titled item C 21:10:02 Heh: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/story.jpg 21:10:46 Wow, this is really scary: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/index.html?x 21:11:00 err http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/print.html 21:11:07 @ http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/print.html 21:11:10 D: Salon.com Technology | Public money, private code from AaronSw-UK 21:15:41 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:57:15 sbp (~sean@m3-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:33:01 AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner") 22:59:27 Junior01 (~junior01@dl-dtg-gyn-C89A43B5.p001.terra.com.br) has joined #swhack 22:59:47 Hi Junior 22:59:53 hi 23:00:34 what is object this channel ? 23:00:45 this is just an off-topic channel 23:00:52 We basically discuss more or less anything here 23:01:05 hum 23:01:16 At the moment, it only appears to be me here, but usually we have lots of really odd people, like Aaron, tav, and Morbus (until he left) 23:02:00 We're also 'l33t hacker d00dz 23:02:05 According to Aaron 23:02:23 This is publically logged to the Web, BTW 23:02:33 http://blogspace.com/swhack/archives/ 23:02:53 Anything that you say here may be used against you in a Google search :-) 23:03:53 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m35-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 23:04:12 sbp (~sean@m35-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:04:42 Aargh, the logs are fucked again. Aaron, sort your damn server out! 23:04:48 [[[ 23:04:48 Server Busy 23:04:48 Please wait just a minute while our server prepares to serve your request. 23:04:49 ]]] 23:05:05 So, anyway, that's about it 23:05:08 Server Busy 23:05:08 Please wait just a minute while our server prepares to serve your request. 23:05:09 oops 23:05:20 Of course, #swhack folklore does run a bit deeper than that... 23:05:34 ...but you'll have to stick around or read the archives to find out the juicy stuff 23:10:23 Oh, and we're expressly forbidden from talking about anything that tav considers to be off-topic, or degrade his log reading experience 23:10:29 I guess I should have mentioned that first 23:10:40 *cough* *cough* 23:11:21 ;p 23:11:26 :-) 23:13:20 Seriously, for a second, 'twas obvioudly fine to state your concern, but why didn't you do so... erm... sooner? 23:14:22 is it that obvioud that I can't spell "obvioud"? 23:15:14 .wn obvioud 23:15:22 .google obvious 23:15:23 obvious: http://www.theobvious.com 23:15:25 feck 23:15:27 .google obvioud 23:15:28 obvioud: http://www.wireplay.com.au/events/Events.asp 23:16:10 heh! "Wireplay: Stop playing with yourself!" 23:17:58 Argh, Freenet is being a pain in the butt lately. It just won't retrieve anything 23:18:08 And now the service seems to have broken 23:19:16 heh: "Freenet is having problems - check freenet.log". y'don't say... 23:20:09 ooh, it's tav's fault: 04-Jan-02 16:51:21:Error:Inform Connection failed:java.net.UnknownHostException: inform.espra.net 23:20:27 or perhaps d*ltab's 23:21:03 hmz 23:21:17 hmz 23:21:22 http://inform.espra.net/ <------- works here 23:22:15 Hmm... perhaps it was connection's fault. In any case, I've uninstalled because I've had problems for a while... Just about to reinstall the whole lot 23:22:48 tried .4 yet? 23:22:53 * sbp gets the latest http://espsetup.com/win32/espsetup.exe 23:23:04 .4? Don't think so 23:23:47 http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-20020106.tgz 23:24:05 Ooh, thanks 23:24:12 * sbp gets that too 23:24:46 there's a slightly older windows binary http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-20011221.exe 23:25:05 but, that seems pre-scipient's datastore fixes 23:26:12 Which version will the espra installer install? 23:30:02 right now, espSetup installs the most stable 0.3 node 23:30:32 it will allow you to install either the latest stable or the latest unstable .5 node 23:30:49 .4 is the development branch 23:33:42 hey, where are you from? 23:34:07 london, uk 23:36:22 [Global Notice] Hi all. One of our main rotation servers will need to reboot in about 10 minutes. The reboot will take about 2 minutes. About 1,100 users are affected. We'll message them separately. Apologies for the inconvenience. 23:38:17 i from Brazil 23:39:29 Junior01 has quit ("BitchX: the ONLY three day cure!") 23:40:31 Junior01 (~junior01@dl-dtg-gyn-C89A43B5.p001.terra.com.br) has joined #swhack 23:40:35 re again 23:47:14 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 23:51:16 sbp (~sean@m833-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:55:39 Pff, why did they base Freenet on Java? 23:58:56 Ooh, it sucks: Couldn't retrieve key: MSK@SSK@enI8YFo3gj8UVh-Au0HpKMftf6QQAgE/homepage// 2002-01-07.txt0100644000014300000000000001251007416430343011665 0ustar nobodyroot00:18:35 lots of good reasons, lots of bad reasons 00:22:50 blargh: 07-Jan-02 00:15:01:Freenet.client.events.RequestFailedEvent:Normal:The request was unsuccessful. Src:tcp/127.0.0.1:19114 htl:32 depth:1 id:b77c390b9a69375 type:Freenet.message.RequestFailed was received 00:23:07 I get that for every request 00:25:01 MEGA|Mad (~Weih@pD9E2D047.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #swhack 00:25:22 MEGA|Mad has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:27:11 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m885-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:27:30 sbp (~sean@m885-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:28:09 Junior01 has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 00:49:48 Yuck, Aaron's proxy thing doesn't handle FTP 01:34:23 Hooray, I figured out how to add URI schemes properly to IE 01:38:46 blargh, this is some content 01:39:04 neat stuff (just testing out get/putclip in CygWin( 01:39:08 s/(/)/ 01:44:07 uri schemes properly? 01:57:36 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m961-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:57:56 sbp (~sean@m961-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:58:14 "uri schemes properly?" - yep 02:15:18 tansaku (~sam@h132-091.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 02:18:05 example:- 02:18:06 [[[ 02:18:06 REGEDIT4 02:18:06 [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\echo\Shell\Open\Command] 02:18:07 @="c:\\PROGRA~1\\Python22\\Python.exe -c open('blargh.txt','a').write('%1\\n')" 02:18:07 [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\echo] 02:18:09 @="URL:Echo Protocol" 02:18:11 "EditFlags"=dword:02000000 02:18:13 "URL Protocol"="" 02:18:15 ]]] - echo.reg 02:18:32 then, try echo:blargh 02:26:36 ...\@......\@....@/..... 02:26:46 (snail going the wrong way) 02:28:16 heh 03:10:52 atariBed is now known as atariOut 03:23:46 Gotta run 03:43:21 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:24:27 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:31:39 Junior01 (~junior01@dl-dtg-gyn-C89A4392.p001.terra.com.br) has joined #swhack 06:40:10 atariOut is now known as atariboy 08:03:25 Junior01 has quit ("BitchX: the ONLY bug-free client") 08:11:25 AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC8B3B24.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 08:11:30 AaronSw-UK has quit (Client Quit) 08:11:41 BenSw (Snak@AC8B3B24.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 08:11:58 Hekko 08:12:08 s/kk/ll 08:32:36 BenSw has changed the topic to: Plex those muscles!! 08:32:49 BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 08:41:54 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:17:54 tansaku2 (~sam@n145-036.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:20:48 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:22:58 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 10:35:30 tansaku2 (~sam@n146-182.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:41:59 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:47:30 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 11:50:20 atariboy is now known as atariMoH 13:23:18 atariMoH is now known as atariboy 14:05:28 [Global Notice] Hi all. As a result of recent attacks, we're recommending you consider running your client +CE. +C prevents private CTCP to, and any replies to public CTCP from, your client. It's particularly recommended. 14:06:00 [Global Notice] We're also recommending +E, which disallows private messages from users who are not registered and identified. You should seriously consider registering your nick, and using an autoidentification script. Thanks. 14:12:03 [Global Notice] Please pass your autoidentify scripts to user 'rik'. Thanks. 14:27:02 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 17:19:53 sbp (~sean@m107-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:43:09 Trinklets 17:43:32 Add a simple "l", and transform a perfectly good word into a perfectly good other word 17:54:22 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m433-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 17:54:40 sbp (~sean@m433-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:13:51 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 18:24:16 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:49:59 sbp (~sean@m165-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 19:20:51 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:51:17 sbp (~sean@m641-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:12:27 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:35:50 sbp (~sean@m513-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:42:27 * sbp had better do some catching up with PF 22:53:19 O.K., QNames in XEvents is the first thing to look at; not much more to say about that, except a clarification of the issues (all this is public knowledge) 23:18:48 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:18:59 sbp (~sean@m513-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:35:45 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m513-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 23:36:03 sbp (~sean@m513-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 2002-01-08.txt0100644000014300000000000012657207416703771011714 0ustar nobodyroot00:36:36 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m808-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 00:36:52 sbp (~sean@m808-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:37:16 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 00:37:25 sbp (~sean@m808-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:51:25 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m51-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 00:51:42 sbp (~sean@m51-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:22:35 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 01:22:46 sbp (~sean@m51-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:33:59 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 02:17:44 howdy! 02:17:52 i have returned 02:18:10 and don't dare tell me what apple announced 02:18:17 ugh, perhaps i should quit now 02:18:40 i miss london already 02:19:38 Guess what Apple announced? 02:19:45 Heh, heh. Only the iLamp 02:21:26 heh 02:24:08 wow, 1000 new messages... 1019 02:25:48 .time gmt 02:25:49 Jan. 8, 2002 2:27 am GMT 02:29:11 BenSW (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 02:29:52 hmm, iPhoto seems pretty cool 02:31:58 Hello\ 02:32:07 Hi 02:37:06 "Shoot like Ansel. Organize like Martha." 02:37:19 * BenSW goes over to Aaron and watches keynote 02:51:00 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m727-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:51:18 sbp (~sean@m727-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:18:02 Hmm, the new iMac does look like a lamp. ;-) 03:20:26 the new iLamp 03:20:52 Man, I read this article about Koza's GA inventions thing, on SciAm, but now I can't find it 03:21:07 Koza? 03:21:18 John Koza 03:21:23 I've got a zillion things to chump from the plane, but i'm too tired to dig up the links right now... 03:21:37 .google sciam koza 03:21:39 sciam koza: http://www.sciam.com/1096issue/1096techbus3.html 03:22:09 GA = Genetic Algorithms? 03:23:11 yes 03:23:43 @ http://www.worldlink.co.uk/stories/storyReader$336 03:23:47 that's close enough 03:23:52 A: http://www.worldlink.co.uk/stories/storyReader$336 from sbp 03:24:07 A:|Darwin Goes Digital 03:24:08 titled item A 03:24:43 A::Using genetic algorithms to invent things - optimum design 03:24:43 commented item A 03:26:50 A::An important precept is that you have a machine which can not only invent optimum things using genetic algorithms, you can also avoid the trees that are patented 03:27:19 commented item A 03:27:38 there are patents on trees now? 03:27:38 sheesh 03:28:01 better get out the chainsaws before hte lawyers get here 03:28:45 Heh, heh 03:30:08 A::cf. [http://www.aaai.org/AITopics/html/genalg.html|Genetic Algorithm] 03:30:31 commented item A 03:30:31 Argh, I just can't find the article that I was reading. Bizarre. It was only a couple of days ago 03:31:39 It's not the sciam one that my google seatch brought up? 03:32:03 Nope 03:32:23 Perhaps it wasn't SciAm 03:35:18 Ah, it was NewScientist 03:35:39 ah, much better mag, i hear 03:35:39 sciam really sucks these days. 03:35:59 it's practically a tabloid 03:36:24 Heh, I *still* can't find it 03:37:03 Aha! Got it! 03:37:03 @ http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/quantum/quantum.jsp?id=22744000 03:37:13 B: http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/quantum/quantum.jsp?id=22744000 from sbp 03:37:29 B:|The Ideas Machine 03:37:49 titled item B 03:38:17 B::"""as Dyson points out, the first patent was granted in 1449, so maybe it's time for a bit of a shake-up""" 03:38:35 commented item B 04:16:17 Aaron, can you be canonical about links to http://www.plexdev.org/ ? 04:16:27 is it www.plexdev.org or just plexdev.org ? 04:16:54 Yeah, we need to fix that. 04:17:38 just plexdev.org 04:18:11 Wow, Edutella is pretty neat 04:19:30 yeah 04:19:40 it's in my chumping buffer 04:21:26 Just put an "@ " in front of the URIs, and paste 'em in! 04:26:32 Yo, where's that eep photo gone? 04:26:42 logster, grep 1-8 eep 04:28:14 I'm logging. I found 537 answers for 'eep' (showing 1...8) 04:28:15 1) 2002-01-08 04:26:32 Yo, where's that eep photo gone? 04:28:16 2) 2002-01-06 23:05:20 Of course, #swhack folklore does run a bit deeper than that... 04:28:17 3) 2002-01-06 17:23:14 I think that we have a real chance this year, if the judges keep open-minded 04:28:18 4) 2002-01-06 02:34:09 The Longest Day was a while ago, and yet the sun seems to keep setting earlier. I guess it's getting light much earlier 04:28:19 5) 2002-01-05 23:22:47 AaronSw-UK has quit ("sleep") 04:28:20 6) 2002-01-05 23:22:23 ok, i'm going to sleep now 04:28:21 7) 2002-01-05 22:28:37 It was too hard to keep up, really. 04:28:22 8) 2002-01-05 16:47:00 To keep the theme running 04:28:24 eep photo? 04:28:24 yeah, the photo of the eep 04:28:24 oh, that 04:28:27 oh, man 04:28:32 logster, grep 1-8 \seep 04:28:44 I'm logging. I found 11 answers for '\seep' (showing 1...8) 04:28:45 1) 2002-01-08 04:28:24 eep photo? 04:28:46 2) 2002-01-08 04:26:42 logster, grep 1-8 eep 04:28:47 3) 2002-01-08 04:26:32 Yo, where's that eep photo gone? 04:28:48 4) 2001-12-24 04:38:24 Photos of the wild eep at http://www.macaddict.com/artgallery/eeps3.html 04:28:49 5) 2001-12-24 04:37:40 used "meep" in ... the error tone to be a "wild eep" instead of a beep. 04:28:50 6) 2001-12-24 04:37:16 "wild eep" history: http://www.personal.u-net.com/~blacksun/cosmic1.htm 04:28:51 7) 2001-12-24 04:37:15 .google "wild eep" history 04:28:52 8) 2001-12-24 04:34:13 # Where do eeps roam? 04:29:47 YIPPIE 04:30:20 heya ben 04:30:34 nice meeting you btw 04:30:50 * sbp waves 04:31:51 hi 04:39:17 BenSW is now known as BenSw|asleep 04:41:14 sleep 04:41:52 pardon? 04:42:17 Hey, it's only 4:43 over here, you should be up for a couple more hours yet, due to jetlag! 04:44:57 It doesn't look like just any old lamp: it looks like Luxo Jr. 04:45:05 AaronSw has changed the topic to: It doesn't look like just any old lamp: it looks like Luxo Jr. 04:45:52 .google "Luxo Jr." 04:45:54 "Luxo Jr.": http://www.pixar.com/shorts/ljr 04:46:41 Patent infringment! 04:47:36 Heh, if you could put a little face on the iLamp, and make it say "boo!", you'd be there 04:50:33 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m919-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 04:50:52 sbp (~sean@m919-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:52:27 Heh, what a topic. That has to be your best since "Breakfast, Beatles, and Berlin" 04:54:36 Gotta run 05:17:05 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:21:07 tav` is now known as tav 05:31:50 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:07:53 tansaku (~sam@n146-182.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:59:52 hmm, jetlag 10:16:07 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:41:24 @ http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/*,access* 10:41:31 C: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/*,access* from AaronSw 10:42:03 C:|The Lost DesignIssues 10:42:03 C::(i.e. those not linked from [/DesignIssues/|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/].) 10:42:03 C::[Anonymous|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Anonymous], [DistObjApps|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/DistObjApps], [More|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/More] 10:42:04 C::Old DesignIssues: [DosDonts|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/DosDonts], [FunctionTraverse|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/FunctionTraverse], [Identified|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Identified] (especially interesting in like of the "semantics of Resources" discussions), 10:42:05 titled item C 10:42:05 C::[Intelligent_Navigation|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Intelligent_Navigation] (essentially describes Google -- in Feb. 1995), [LinkToLiving|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkToLiving] (shades of XPointer), [MOO-WWW|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/MOO-WWW], 10:42:06 commented item C 10:42:07 commented item C 10:42:09 C::[ManyIndexes|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/ManyIndexes], [ProtocolProblems|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/ProtocolProblems], [Protocolcomms|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Protocolcomms], [RComments|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/RCcomments], [TracingLinks|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/TracingLinks] 10:42:11 commented item C 10:42:11 commented item C 10:42:13 C::Note that many of these are linked from other places, and are not really "lost", but I include them all for completeness. 10:42:14 commented item C 10:42:16 commented item C 10:42:16 C::TimBL seems to have [started a book|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/TimBook-old/] in 1993-4. 10:42:18 commented item C 10:42:36 @ http://www.oss4lib.org/readings/interview-everitt-manheimer-2001-03.php 10:42:36 D::A very interesting interview about how RDF, Dublin Core, librarians and Wikis can work together with Zope. I can only hope that Zope3 is flexible enough to let this stuff take off. 10:42:36 D::Man, [Rael|http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/] just has his hands in everything! 10:42:36 D::Although [the story|htp://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-long] is rather linear, the building of these things is rather hypertextual. We're building the Plex when we don't have the Semantic Web, the Semantic Web when we don't have integrated metadata, integrated metadata when we don't have the two-way Web, etc. 10:42:40 D: oss4lib -- An Interview with Paul Everitt and Ken Manheimer from AaronSw 10:42:42 commented item D 10:42:44 commented item D 10:42:46 commented item D 10:45:52 tav has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:47:10 BLURB:Software Development Thoughts 10:47:10 E::-- 10:47:10 E::Our design sucks, but we'll build it anyway. 10:47:10 E::Our code sucks, but we'll ship it anyway. 10:47:10 E::Our system sucks, but we'll tell folks about it anyway. 10:47:11 E::And we'll try our best to make it suck less. 10:47:13 E: Software Development Thoughts from AaronSw 10:47:13 E::-- 10:47:14 commented item E 10:47:15 E::It's just like Dave [always says|http://davenet.userland.com/1995/09/03/wemakeshittysoftware]. Your stuff is never going to be perfect, but you still need to get it out there. *When in doubt, ship it out.* 10:47:16 commented item E 10:47:18 E::As [Torvalds says|http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398], software isn't planned, it evolves. 10:47:18 commented item E 10:47:20 commented item E 10:47:22 commented item E 10:47:24 commented item E 10:47:26 commented item E 10:47:28 commented item E 10:47:49 @ http://www.viridiandesign.org/notes/251-300/00283_geeks_and_spooks.html 10:47:49 F::Bruce Sterling explains why our crypto situation sucks (ignoring P2P) and why the war on terrorism is a hoax. 10:47:49 F::It's definitely a fun read. 10:48:05 F: http://www.viridiandesign.org/notes/251-300/00283_geeks_and_spooks.html from AaronSw 10:48:07 commented item F 10:48:09 commented item F 10:48:15 @ http://edutella.jxta.org/ 10:48:15 G::Very much like the Plex. I'm emailing them to see how we can work together. 10:48:15 G::See also their [CETIS interview|http://www.cetis.ac.uk/content/20010927163232/viewArticle]. 10:48:22 G: http://edutella.jxta.org/ from AaronSw 10:48:23 F:|Viridian Note: Geeks and Spooks 10:48:24 commented item G 10:48:26 G:|Edutella 10:48:27 commented item G 10:48:29 titled item F 10:48:32 titled item G 10:51:50 @ http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/dquan/haystack.html 10:51:50 H::Describes the [MIT Haystack project|http://haystack.lcs.mit.edu/]. A very interesting use of RDF to organize your personal files. Ties in well with [Be's metadata filesystem|http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/2001/12/20/#i1008875416.130779] and my thoughts about the Plex for desktops. 10:51:58 H: An Ontology for Personal Information Stores from AaronSw 10:52:01 commented item H 11:03:24 @ http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge70.html 11:03:24 I:|The Second Coming ‹ A Manifesto 11:03:25 I::Another oldie-but-a-goodie. Gelernter has moved away from the nitty-gritty and is now focusing on the problems of UI -- how do we get this technology into our lives. Man, so many interesting problems and so little time. 11:03:25 I::I had this epiphany (current UI sucks!) after reading [Ted Nelson's "The Future of Information"|http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/INFUTscans/INFUT_ExplPage.html] in the days before school in the Summer of 2000. I put together a little hypertext after reading it, the only remains of which seem to be [What's Wrong With Software?|http://get.theinfo.org/whatsWrongWithSoftware] I really liked Ted's spiral calendar design -- it'd be very cool if Lifestreams ad 11:03:29 I::I love this line: "Any well-designed next-generation electronic gadget will come with a 'Disable Omniscience' button." 11:03:30 I::Lifestreams reminds me of [Paper Trails|http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/PaperTrail]: "These vapor-trails of crystallized experience will represent our first concrete answer to a hard question: what *is* a company, a university, any sort of ongoing organization or institution, if its staff and customers and owners can all change, its buildings be bulldozed, its site relocated ‹ what's left? What *is* it? The answer: a lifestream in cyberspace." 11:03:32 I: http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge70.html from AaronSw 11:03:34 titled item I 11:03:35 I::He also mentions the harness-human-power idea I came up with a while back: "Software can solve hard problems [...] by delivering the problem to exactly the right human problem-solver." 11:03:36 commented item I 11:03:39 commented item I 11:03:42 commented item I 11:03:45 commented item I 11:03:48 commented item I 11:04:34 tansaku (~sam@n146-182.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:05:40 I:|The Second Coming -- A Manifesto 11:05:42 titled item I 11:29:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:33:40 tansaku (~sam@n146-182.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:50:04 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:16:49 BenSw|asleep is now known as BenSw 14:43:25 My representative says he will review the SSSCA when it is introduced. 14:43:44 He sounds like he'll do the right thing, tho. 14:47:48 tansaku (~sam@n146-182.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:59:25 tav, you been able to chat with oierw's mom yet? 15:02:57 @ http://www.w3.org/2002/01/rdf-databases/federation 15:03:00 J: http://www.w3.org/2002/01/rdf-databases/federation from AaronSw 15:03:44 J:|RDF Database Federations 15:03:47 titled item J 15:04:32 J::This was how I first evisioned the Plex working (sorta). 15:04:36 commented item J 15:38:51 BenSw has quit ("Warden: theres no Air in Space. Homer: But theres an Air and Space Museum") 15:42:20 TIME Magazine: "The machine bears an uncanny resemblance to Luxo Jr.-the fun-loving, computer-animated swing-arm lamp that starred in a short film by Pixar, the fabled computer-animation studio that Jobs runs. (Pixar creative chief John Lasseter has also made the first new iMac ad.)" 15:55:52 BenSW (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 16:12:55 How to do /etc/hosts on Mac OS X (macosx MacOS X): http://www.macwrite.com/criticalmass/mac-os-x-hosts-revisited.php 16:34:22 sbp (~sean@m15-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:55:35 Umm, OK 16:58:46 A nice shade of blue 16:58:56 BenSW is now known as BenSW|away 16:59:21 Dont worry im not really away 16:59:46 Uh huh? 17:03:09 Argh, I'm trying to come up with a color scheme for a document with a very dark background color 17:03:30 The problem is, I'm using light blue for the links, and orange for the caption 17:04:04 But now I'm trying to set the color of the h1 heading, and it's impossible - no color looks right. Blue looks the best, but then the color is practically indistinguishable from that of links 17:05:07 Hmm... #33cccc is alright, I guess 17:13:06 * sbp settles on very-light-blue 17:13:23 When we were visiting Carnaby street there was a store called G - #FFFFFF 17:14:26 cool 17:16:27 @ http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/37/index2a.html 17:16:35 K: Death of the Websafe Color Palette? from sbp 17:16:52 K:|Questioning the Websafe Palette 17:16:54 titled item K 17:17:23 The great thing about the chump is that you get to retitle documents :-) People don't know unless they follow the links 17:17:29 anyway... 17:18:23 K::I'd suspected for a while that the Websafe palette is just a PITA. This article explores the World o' Websafe 17:18:25 commented item K 17:18:29 K? 17:19:36 You've been busy 17:24:58 Yeah, that was my backlog. 17:31:51 is this websafe thing the reason debian.org looks so bad on my browser? 17:32:13 man, i like european time. i feel like i've wasted the whole day but it isn't even noon yet! 17:32:24 Heh, heh 17:34:45 Canada: Our Eskimo Neighbors to the South 17:34:54 P'on? 17:35:14 That's what Americans say. 17:35:35 Uh huh? 17:37:00 Ooh, you're closing down channels 17:37:05 I am. 17:37:21 You are 17:37:27 Indeed. 17:37:53 Well then I'm happy for you 17:40:43 * AaronSw wonders why the files are disappearing from the Finder view. 17:41:07 Aargh! they reallt are gone 17:41:18 oh phew, no they're not 17:42:11 something strange is going on 17:43:51 hmm, my hard drive isn't full -- perhaps it's corrupt? 17:48:21 hmm, relaunching the finder seems to have fixed things 17:48:29 looks like its prefs were corrupt 17:51:28 That was also not the estimation of the problem and situation that was mine 17:51:47 or somethingorother 17:54:25 Ah, they should call it the iLuxoJr 17:54:36 Heh. 18:00:56 Hmm, this guy was on the Beatles Walk with us: http://danielfaber.com/ 18:03:18 An interesting juxtoposition of photos on this page: http://rachelleshaw.com/office.html 18:04:42 And now it's time for... 18:04:50 sbp's Strategies! 18:04:56 [musical introduction] 18:05:12 So, sbp, tell the audience your three secrets of exercise! 18:05:16 Now, today I have been plotting teaching childeren other languages from a young age 18:05:34 Oh. 18:05:36 exercise: move your body, move it quickly, move it till you're tired 18:05:49 * AaronSw laughs. 18:05:59 Now, the main stumbling block when learning a new language is getting the genders right 18:06:10 * AaronSw wonders what this null2root.ppt file on his hard drive is. 18:06:18 So, I have come up with an approach to teach *your* kids the *right* way (patent pending) 18:06:35 All you have to do is address objects around the home as if they were people 18:06:48 So, "Jimmy, put Mr. Butter dish back in Mrs. Fridge" 18:07:01 You can't get a patent on that! I've been doing that for years. 18:07:07 Now, there are advantages and disadvantages to this approach 18:07:22 [Well me too, and I'm older than you] 18:08:00 The primary disadvantage is that when your kids go to school for the first time, the experience will be made worse 'cause th other kids are bound to beat the crap out of them when they refer to the chair as "Mr. Chair" 18:08:24 Of course, you can do a pre-emptive strike on this, by telling them not to use the titles when at school 18:08:37 The advantage is that they will pick up new languages more quickly 18:09:00 Of course, it helps if you actually know the genders of the objects in whatever language you expect them to learn first 18:09:15 The other alternative is to just make everything female in the language you want to learn. 18:09:23 Less pain that way, but you get some funny looks. 18:09:31 That's a very good idea! 18:09:58 Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 18:10:01 logster, where am i? 18:10:04 See http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-08#T18-10-01 18:10:13 Morbus has left #swhack 18:10:20 You are lost in a maze of twisty IRC channels, all alike. 18:10:56 This one is more alike than others, though 18:12:04 - #swhack: Morbus Woz 'Ere 18:13:15 http://rachelleshaw.com/office.html ? 18:13:22 A dentists with video games? 18:13:41 Yeah, exactly 18:14:02 And she's smiling! 18:15:30 * sbp listens to "Fool In The Rain" 18:17:06 I've never really worked out why people fear the dentists so much. I mean, as long as your teeth aren't too bad, all they do is prod them a bit, and say "a O.K., b O.K." for a while. Ooh, and then you can drink that cool pink liquid stuff, and they say "you're meant to spit it!". Cool stuff 18:17:21 Heh heh. 18:17:31 Unless you have a cavity or something. 18:17:33 * AaronSw reads MIT-LCS-TR-819 18:18:24 Yeah, then they're all like, "you didn't brush, did you? You didn't floss? Have you been eating *food* again? You know that rots your teeth. Now I'm going to have to hack your gums apart, and it's going to bleed everywhere. You've been a naughty little boy" 18:18:39 Acutally, my dentist is pretty cool 18:18:45 Yeah, there's that bit, but I mostly get that at the orthodontist. 18:18:51 Heh, yeah 18:19:00 * AaronSw uses a screwdriver to poke bits of food out of his braces. 18:19:19 Did you ever have to have a teeth impression thing taken? A cast? I love that gel stuff. Made from seaweed, apparently 18:19:26 But it makes me want to eat it 18:19:42 I'm like, "mustn't swallow, mustn't swallow!" 18:19:54 Yeah, i had one of those. The first time I threw it all up over the dentist's lavish offices. We quickly found a new dentist 18:20:01 lol 18:22:54 Did you once mention the word "Python" when you came to visit? Did I for that matter? 18:23:16 I presume that you tape recorded the whole thing, and that transcripts are already on the Web 18:23:17 I don't think we mentioned many words at all. 18:23:24 True 18:23:29 yeah, now you can play guess-the-url 18:23:34 Ooh! 18:24:03 Actually, I haven't uploaded it yet... 18:24:05 well, it's either on swartzfam, blogspace, or logicerror. Why do you have so many damn domains! Anyway... I'll guess that it's on blogspace 18:24:16 I guess that it will be on blogspace, although now you'll change it 18:24:46 I think I need a new domain name for all the annoying RSS stuff. Or maybe for everything else. 18:25:02 rssdev.org 18:25:14 aaronsrssorama.org 18:25:17 I was saving that for RSS-DEV stuff. 18:25:23 (to rssdev.org) 18:25:27 uh huh 18:27:34 Oh for a T3 line, a decent server, and lots of cash 18:28:12 Of course, infomesh.net is one a decent server with a T3 line (or better) 18:28:19 But I don't have lots of cash 18:28:27 s/one/on/ 18:30:59 I decided that I don't like Freenet, after it continued to refuse to work 18:31:28 Plex had better be... well... better 18:33:51 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:34:11 sbp (~sean@m202-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:35:03 We're too topical. I just decided 18:45:09 .google when hungry eat thirsty drink Zen 18:45:11 when hungry eat thirsty drink Zen: http://www.taopage.org/order.html 18:47:18 BenSW|away is now known as BenSw 18:48:12 Hello 18:48:39 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:48:48 sbp (~sean@m202-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:51:47 BenSw is now known as BenSw|away 18:59:51 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:15:11 atariboy is now known as atariBed 20:31:01 What's all the cash for? 20:31:05 (to sbp) 21:20:05 sbp (~sean@m157-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:23:22 Note to self: Phone Joshua Quittner for fawning press blurb on next project 21:23:52 come again? 21:24:00 cf. http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020114/cover.html 21:24:16 Ooh! I got some of your Python porn spam! 21:24:38 Heh. 21:25:47 Ew, it's rather disgusting, too 21:26:08 (I mean, just the email. To scared now to follow the link) 21:26:18 In the bin it goes (already gone) 21:27:26 Heh, heh, heh 21:27:34 Man, this guy is totally paranoid about speed: http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2836041,00.html 21:27:42 aha: """The machine bears an uncanny resemblance to Luxo Jr.—the fun-loving, computer-animated swing-arm lamp that starred in a short film by Pixar, the fabled computer-animation studio that Jobs runs. (Pixar creative chief John Lasseter has also made the first new iMac ad.) "It looks a little cheeky," says Ive. It looks alive.""" 21:27:44 I mean, hey dude, you're the one with a time-wasting picture of yourself. 21:27:52 I quoted that last night. 21:28:10 Didya? Pff, I must have been out or asleep or something 21:28:21 No sleep for you! 21:29:00 It is the iLamp really, isn't it? They *must* rename it: they have no choice 21:29:27 Interesting: http://www.apple.com/ilamp/ 21:29:42 not found 21:29:47 comapre: http://www.apple.com/imac/ 21:29:50 :-) 21:29:53 But I think that there actually *is* such a thing as an iLamp 21:29:59 .google iLamp 21:30:00 iLamp: http://www.theapplecollection.com/iMac/iStore/Tensor_iLamp.html 21:30:04 yep 21:30:08 Heh, heh. 21:30:52 I'm sure that can be its nickname, like TiBook, iceBook, etc. 21:31:05 If I had one, I may use a lightbulb as the desktop background 21:31:14 The photos of it in the Time article are neat -- it'd be cool to have such a flexible monitor. 21:31:25 light bulb: awesome! 21:31:30 You know me, I have my monitor low 21:31:46 Yeah, so you can "hunker down with a spreadsheet". 21:32:03 heh, heh 21:32:09 .google "hunker down with a spreadsheet" 21:32:09 no results found. 21:32:10 Hmm, so the Apple line is: Quicksilver, iLamp, TiBook and iceBook. 21:32:17 Steve said that when he introduced it. 21:32:18 iPod 21:32:24 Ah 21:32:31 oh yeah, and the iPod -- that doesn't have a nickname yet. 21:32:33 Steve? On first name terms, are ya? :-) 21:32:37 it's still on rev 1. 21:32:49 Hmm... how about the matchbox 21:32:52 iMatchbox 21:33:04 Heh, heh. 21:34:21 Which one of these is not like the other ones: http://www.apple.com/imac/images/indexdigitalhub01072002.jpg 21:34:50 Er... the one with the car on it 21:35:02 Hmm... none of them have a car 21:35:12 How observant of you. 21:35:18 O.K., the CD with the notes on it 21:35:28 Ding! 21:35:31 That'd be iTunes. 21:35:41 Indeed? 21:35:55 The one and only. 21:36:14 .google iTunes 21:36:15 iTunes: http://www.apple.com/itunes 21:36:26 they should stop making things so easy 21:36:41 They're all about ease-of-use. 21:36:50 So... um... you really like Macs, don't ya? 21:36:54 What will they colonize next? iRDF? 21:37:06 heh 21:37:30 I do like my Macs... 21:37:50 Macs and Be are really the only machines with any taste. 21:38:06 Do you have a BeOS box? 21:38:16 Unfortunately, no... so not sure about that. 21:38:38 And it's not really possible to do good work in an OS that makes you throw up all the time. Witness Office for Windows vs. Office for OS X. 21:38:40 How do you measure a great OS? 21:39:12 A great OS is one that inspires you to not cut corners. 21:39:29 To do things Right. 21:39:47 Please write an article, post it online, etc. 21:39:49 :-) 21:40:07 BLURB:What makes a great OS? 21:40:25 L: What makes a great OS? from AaronSw 21:40:46 L::A great OS is one that inspires you to do things Right. 21:40:49 commented item L 21:40:54 A::It needs to have taste, and not cut corners. 21:40:57 commented item A 21:40:58 oops 21:41:01 L::It needs to have taste, and not cut corners. 21:41:04 commented item L 21:41:27 L::A great OS is one that doesn't crash, comes fairly cheap, lets you play with its innards if need be, has protocol and location independence to a certain extent, is bugless, comes with Python pre-installed 21:41:29 commented item L 21:41:44 etc. 21:42:12 L::It's not really possible to do great work in [an OS|http://www.microsoft.com/windows/] that makes you sick all the time. 21:42:13 commented item L 21:42:20 lol 21:42:31 subliminal linking 21:42:52 Or [http://www.apple.com/osx|one] that's impossible to get decent software for 21:43:16 But I won't engage in petty OS bitch fighting :-) 21:43:19 L::Try comparing [some Windows apps|http://www.microsoft.com/office/] with [some OS X apps|http://www.microsoft.com/mac/officex/] some time. 21:43:20 commented item L 21:43:28 What software can't you get for OS X? 21:43:36 and it's apple.com/macosx 21:43:46 Yeah, but I didn't chump it, so I guessed 21:44:05 and /osx would've been better :-) 21:44:20 Name one program that you'd like, but isn't out for OS X. 21:44:32 Hmm... 21:44:40 WinRAR? 21:45:03 What's that do? 21:45:20 It's a compression utility 21:45:30 Quite good, too 21:45:41 There are RAR compressors for Mac. 21:45:52 Mac OS X even comes with one! (Stuffit Expander) 21:46:08 Mmmkay 21:46:13 mIRC? 21:46:13 There's also MacRAR: http://macrar.free.fr/ 21:46:20 Notepad/Wordpad 21:46:21 There's Snak, which is better IMO. 21:46:34 Pff, "better IMO" doesn't cut it. I want mIRC 21:46:45 TextEdit for Notepad and Wordpad. 21:46:54 I presume it has all of the *nix utils 21:46:56 You can make it act just like mIRC. 21:47:00 utils: of course. 21:47:19 what's the directory structure like? I mean, generally 21:47:42 Took me a while to sort a decent one out, and now my computer is just a mess :-) 21:47:59 Well, /Applications/, /Users/username/{Pictures, Music, Movies, Library} 21:48:01 Ooh, Amaya 21:48:08 fink install amaya 21:48:24 Users: ugh. Only one user on this comp. I hate the bloat associated with multiple users 21:48:26 (I never thought he'd be asking for Amaya!) 21:48:31 What bloat? 21:48:38 Yeah, Amaya was more of a Joke 21:48:56 well, you get /Users/username crap 21:49:13 But OS' don't usually force that upon AFAICT 21:49:27 s/upon/upon you/ 21:49:33 * sbp misses out arbitrary 21:49:43 :-) 21:50:05 Another benefit to OS X: it wouldn't crash on you every 3 minutes. 21:50:12 Neither does Win 21:50:18 Seemed to when I was at your house. 21:50:32 Heh, that was CD-ROM drive related 21:50:39 I've always had problems with that 21:50:43 And if your Ping timeouts and Killed by NickServ's are anything to judge by... 21:50:49 CDROM: pff, you apologist. 21:50:50 That's my ISP 21:51:08 At least on a Mac, if the CD-ROM goes badm you can blame the same company. 21:51:14 heh, heh 21:51:57 that kinda sucks though, companies offering a "package". I wonder if the price deal is any better? I mean, what if I wanted to install a trusted DVD-RAM drive on an iMac? 21:52:06 trusted? 21:52:12 the iMac comes with DVD-RAM. 21:52:14 yeah, one that I had lying about 21:52:34 so what if another kind of drive comes out? I want to replace it 21:52:52 Well, you can then. You can also get a firewire drive. 21:53:05 Firewire? Didn't yours break? 21:53:23 It's broken, yeah. Not sure why that is. 21:53:37 I should really send it in for repairs. 21:53:54 Argh, Frasier's going to be on in a sec., sorry 21:53:59 c'ya 21:54:01 c'ya 21:56:11 I wonder what you'd do if an iLamp showed up at your house for your birthday. 22:09:06 Aha, Fu Manchu is a Californian band. 22:09:10 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:11:32 * AaronSw just got a copy of the Time Magazine. 22:13:52 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:25:01 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 22:28:27 sbp (~sean@m984-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:29:29 "I wonder what you'd do if an iLamp showed up at your house for your birthday" - crap myself 22:29:51 Heh, Morbus said he'd buy me one too, so I reckon I'm going to have a few of them floating around 22:32:08 If I had an iLamp, I'd have a battle of the computers; I'd use them both for a while until I got annoyed with one, and abandon the other 22:32:28 er... abandon that one, even 22:32:43 Heh. 22:33:09 Well I'm not going to get you a computer so you can abandon it. 22:33:19 You think I'd abandon the iLamp? 22:33:27 With a DVD-ROM drive? 22:33:27 No, but there's always a chance. 22:33:37 heh. 22:34:49 superdrive! 22:35:25 of course, one day, I will have to replace this computer (the cycle goes on), and I do wonder what I'll get 22:36:08 a change of OS might be too much of a shock, but who knows? I might go for whatever iMac is out at the time (probably an iTrolley, or iDrawer) 22:36:36 Heh! 22:37:07 But it'll be a while off. I had to upgrade from the last one because it just ground to a halt when I had lots of applications running. Could have got a new chip and memory stack I suppose... but I needed much more hard drive space as well 22:37:20 The old iMacs are down to $499 --the iLamp will probably be at $40 by then. 22:37:28 Heh, yeah 22:37:38 How much is the iLamp retailing for? 22:37:46 $1299 22:37:51 Wow 22:38:02 I could probably switch all my $ to Euros and be all international and stuff. 22:38:13 Nah 22:38:20 Their strategy appears to be: get the early adopters to pay thru the nose and then come out with the cheaper model. 22:38:29 .change 1 usd to euros 22:38:31 sorry, there is no currency called EUROS 22:38:33 .change 1 usd to eur 22:38:35 1.00 (United States Dollars (USD)) makes 1.11973 (Euros (EUR)) 22:39:34 Pff, all I want is a rundown of the iLamp... can't find it 22:39:51 apple.com/imac/ 22:40:09 http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html won't do? 22:40:32 Does it say how much memory and HD space it has? 22:40:40 I guess that might (should) be optional 22:40:43 Yeah, it does. 22:40:49 It lists all the options. 22:40:52 ah, yep 22:41:01 [it was just slow to load] 22:41:08 60 gig / 256 (up to gig) for top model? 22:41:12 Hmm, what's that thing to the very left of the ports... is that a microphone or a Kensington lock? 22:41:34 Hmm... I think it's overpriced, personally 22:41:36 yep, tav 22:42:24 It's obviously overpriced! 22:42:30 That's their strategy, remember? 22:42:37 Yeah 22:42:52 But I mean overpriced for being overpriced :-) 22:43:00 Heh. 22:43:28 Ooh, that is clever: they release the cheaper models each month. 22:43:33 cf. http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=iMacG4 22:44:47 interesting: """iTunes is for legal or rightholder-authorized copying only. Don’t steal music.""" - http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html 22:44:52 Do they really mean "or"? 22:45:07 Heh. 22:45:35 They had a "Don't steal music" sticker on the iPod with 5 different languages. I was like, OK, copying files isn't stealing so I'm good. 22:45:47 Heh, heh 22:46:11 It'd be alright if they said "please" 22:47:08 I don't think they really mean it 22:48:05 Hmm, I'm missing a Handeze... I wonder if I left it at the hotel. 22:48:43 Hmm... I was writing a brower; why'd I stop? Oh yeah, rxvt/bash screwed up the output for some reason 22:49:15 You were writing a browser? A web browser? 22:49:20 Uh huh 22:50:04 Just a simple thing, using [wait for it]... Python 22:50:42 Guile. 22:50:53 or is it Grail. 22:51:17 Grail, of course 22:51:43 Yeah, wonder why I was thinking of guile. 22:52:05 * sbp finds http://grail.sourceforge.net/ 22:52:19 Yeah, but the thing is, I wanted to write a browser that does things properly 22:52:39 And have the fun of finding out about the sort of stuff needed in order to write a browser 22:52:42 s/fun/"fun"/ 22:52:43 like Netrik? 22:54:09 WorldWideWeb 2.0! 22:54:18 I want to get a NeXT so I can run WorldWideWeb. 22:54:28 Oh, did I mention that I saw Tim's NeXT when I was in London? 22:54:30 Heh, me too 22:54:33 Got lots of photos of it. 22:54:34 Ooh, neat 22:54:42 Where is it? 22:55:03 London, I'm guessing 22:55:05 Pff, can't find a Grail download 22:55:54 It's at the Science Museum. 22:56:07 2nd floor, Digitopolis. 22:56:19 sbp: http://grail.sourceforge.net/source/license.html 22:56:52 O.K., now try the links 22:57:04 Neither the HTTP or the FTP links work 22:57:24 and Alexa yields nothing on the HTTP URI 22:57:36 I see 22:58:19 try http://sourceforge.net/projects/grail 22:58:24 aha: http://telia.dl.sourceforge.net/grail/grail-0.6.tgz 22:59:13 http://telia.dl.sourceforge.net/grail/grail-0.6.tgz 23:02:46 well that crashed quite well 23:04:40 Woohoo! 23:04:46 * AaronSw gets authorization to buy his server. 23:06:10 * sbp listens to RIB 23:06:33 Man, Dell's website sucks. 23:13:02 OK, ordered. 23:18:11 Estimated Ship Date: on or before Jan 15, 2002 23:18:24 * sbp fixes the formatting to some extent 23:19:11 what're you doing? 23:19:28 wrt what? 23:20:26 w.r.t. whatever it is you're rambling on about: Dell, ordered, ship date... 23:20:34 Oh, that'd be vorpal. 23:20:41 My new server -- I'm quite excited about it. 23:20:51 Ah! 23:20:56 Hmm, what is it with programs not opening today. 23:22:45 blargh, what's the "proper" way to do: while ' ' in s: s = string.replace(s, ' ', ' ') 23:23:30 I guess I'll have to use string.find or something 23:24:04 Hmm, I got both a confirmation and an acknowledgement of my order. 23:25:19 I think it was a good deal: $598 for the server (before tax), 1Ghz, 40GB. 23:25:27 And then I'm getting a gig of RAM for it. 23:26:50 whoa, memory prices went way up while i was on vacation 23:30:06 Hmm, I wonder how much $.00 is. 23:31:11 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m367-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 23:32:11 sbp (~sean@m367-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:35:01 I wonder why the server takes so long to ship. I want it now! :-) 23:35:37 Crucial has a very nice website. 23:39:11 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:39:22 sbp (~sean@m367-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:41:58 Ah, nice. iPhoto is scriptable: http://www.apple.com/applescript/iphoto/ 23:44:35 Wow, my browser is almost usable. HyperText links don't work yet, but that doesn't matter, does it? 23:45:26 Heh, the HTML parser is *the* most hideous piece of hacking ever. Sorry, but it is. Of course, it had to be 23:45:50 Heh heh. 23:46:03 [grody regexp] 23:46:33 err that should have been: 23:46:39 # delete all tags: 23:46:43 [grody regexp here] 23:47:08 Heh, no, it's not that bad. It uses HTMLParser 23:47:40 you'd throw up a lot if you saw the code 23:49:07 heh, heh:- 23:49:08 [[[ 23:49:08 $ python browser.py http://aaronsw.com/ 23:49:08 My face reflected in a doorknob. 23:49:08 23:49:08 my.life: the wacky story of aaron swartz 23:49:09 23:49:11 Nearby: swartzfam.com | crit this page | google backlinks 23:49:13 If this page seems devoid of color and excitement, youneed a browser t 23:49:15 hat supports CSS. Please upgrade your browser. 23:49:17 ]]] 23:49:20 What a great opening line 23:49:31 Heh. 23:49:40 youneed? 23:49:45 Hmm... bug 23:50:19 Ah, actually, it's being sensible 23:50:33 it doesn't yet treat newlines as whitespace. It shuns newlines as whitespace 23:50:49 Pff. 23:50:57 * sbp makes the change 23:51:16 there:- 23:51:17 [[[ 23:51:17 If this page seems devoid of color and excitement, you need a browser 23:51:18 that supports CSS. Please upgrade your browser. 23:51:18 ]]] 23:52:03 Next it'll be taking political points of view. 23:52:12 Pardon? 23:53:08 BTW, your statement sucks. What if I have my browser set to show me all stuff that is hidden? Your statement would be wrong, and you would look more the fool for it 23:53:22 Yeah, I was just thinking about that. 23:53:34 What you said isn't true, though. 23:53:35 And I'm quite happy with my little line-mode browser, why should I upgrade? Plenty of people are happy with Lynx 23:54:00 Yeah, the latter sentence is bad. 23:57:56 ugh, can't ssh in to swartzfam -- i'm moving it to vorpal. 23:59:53 For a 2.5KB browser, this is quite good 2002-01-09.txt0100644000014300000000000011440307417154574011705 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:10 sorry, 2.59KB 00:00:28 Neat. 00:03:37 O.K., now I need some really crud HTML to test it on 00:03:56 it doens't have tidy built-in? 00:04:10 It doesn't need it 00:04:26 I hope :-) That's why I need some crud HTML, to test... 00:07:01 aha:- 00:07:02 [[[ 00:07:02 THE SUBARU WEBSITE IS BUILT FOR INTERNET EXPLORER 00:07:02 VERSION 4 OR HIGHER AND NETSCAPE VERSION 4 OR HIGHER. SCREE 00:07:02 N RESOLUTION MUST BE 800x600 OR HIGHER. CLICK ON THE APPROPR 00:07:02 IATE LINK BELOW TO DOWNLOAD THE MOST CURRENT BROWSER VERSION. 00:07:04 < HERE> TO ENTER 00:07:06 ]]] 00:07:08 - http://www.subaru.com.au/ 00:07:33 of course, I can change the browser ID :-) 00:11:27 tansaku (~sam@h131-044.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:11:43 Hmm... somehow, I need to support frames 00:15:27 Perhaps you can convince deltab to switch from Links to browser.py 00:16:23 lol 00:36:47 * sbp adds better formatting rules 00:36:53 now it doesn't do st 00:36:57 uff like this wh 00:36:59 ich is good 00:37:08 s/this/this,/ 01:06:46 Hmm... it's putting line breaks in
elements for no apparent reason 01:16:11 Hmm... sometimes it adds a /n after
  • , and sometimes it adds two 01:22:29 Aha, solved both problems 01:29:27 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m573-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:29:45 sbp (~sean@m573-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:33:39 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:11:10 Hmm, the DAML/RDF layering discussion is interesting. 02:19:48 * AaronSw sends a message to Pat/www-archive about it. 02:21:21 Pat Hayes on Pat Hayes: "He also restores antique mechanical clocks, remodels old houses and enjoys arguing with anyone about almost anything." 02:21:25 - http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/~phayes/ 02:24:07 Roy Fielding on why he's in the TAG: "[To] Figure out what W3C WGs have been working on while I've been out of touch..." 02:27:55 Ian says the IRC logs will be public, but they're member-confidential right now... 02:28:29 my browser has a first name | it's browser dot pee why | my browser has a second name | it's browser dot pee why 02:29:03 Yeah, but it's nice that the minutes are public 02:29:40 That's true. 02:31:50 * AaronSw wonders who daveo100 is in the IRC log 02:31:56 must be David Orchard 02:37:43 lol: Dan Connolly: If the entire web disappears behind "POST" due to web services, I will be annoyed. 02:37:47 That's an understatement. 02:37:51 heh, heh, heh 02:43:06 lol: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/0014 02:43:13 Go Joseph Reagle, go! 02:44:46 lol, neat 02:49:08 The custom Google setup for the W3C is pretty cheap, IMO. I mean, passing HTML thru the URL? 02:49:46 Come again? 02:49:52 deus_x has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:49:57 like http://www.google.com/custom?cof=T%3Ablack%3BLW%3A72%3BALC%3A%23ff3300%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FIcons%2Fw3c_home%3BLC%3A%23000099%3BLH%3A48%3BBGC%3Awhite%3BAH%3Aleft%3BVLC%3A%23660066%3BGL%3A0%3BAWFID%3A0b9847e42caf283e%3B&sitesearch=w3.org&domains=w3.org 02:50:25 heh, yeah... 02:50:35 Funny when you take that bit out 02:50:40 or even better, replace it 02:50:46 Heh. 02:51:15 Hmm... nothing happens when you replace it. That sucks 02:51:47 Hmm, that's really weird. 02:52:02 >>> import urllib 02:52:02 >>> urllib.unquote("T%3Ablack%3BLW%3A72%3BALC%3A%23ff3300%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FIcons%2Fw3c_home%3BLC%3A%23000099%3BLH%3A48%3BBGC%3Awhite%3BAH%3Aleft%3BVLC%3A%23660066%3BGL%3A0%3BAWFID%3A0b9847e42caf283e%3B") 02:52:02 'T:black;LW:72;ALC:#ff3300;L:http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home;LC:#000099;LH:48;BGC:white;AH:left;VLC:#660066;GL:0;AWFID:0b9847e42caf283e;' 02:52:03 >>> 02:52:19 Ah. 02:52:22 now *that's* really weird 02:52:33 It looks like they just signed up for the Free SiteSearch service. 02:52:37 Yeah 02:52:59 Good idea, too 02:53:28 You should do that for Infomesh or something. 02:54:06 heh: http://www.google.com/custom?cof=&domains=w3.org&q=blargh&sitesearch=w3.org 02:54:13 infomesh? Why bother? 02:54:28 I'll probably do it for mysterylights or something 02:54:29 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 02:55:26 W3C should upgrade to Google Gold. 02:55:41 Google Gold? What do you get with that? 02:55:47 See http://www.google.com/services/silver_gold.html 02:55:56 You get to put any sort of HTML in. 02:56:18 Neat 02:56:51 ooh: http://www.google.com/custom?cof=&domains=w3.org&q=blargh&sitesearch=w3.org 02:57:33 what's the difference? 02:57:48 Note who all of the search results are by 02:58:05 of course 02:58:09 Ooh: http://www.google.com/custom?cof=&domains=infomesh.net&q=blargh&sitesearch=infomesh.net 02:58:31 Heh, what? 02:58:41 Heh heh: http://www.google.com/custom?q=blargh&sitesearch=logicerror.com 02:59:00 Ah, they're still down to me :-) 02:59:21 and all of those in: http://www.google.com/custom?q=blargh&sitesearch=blogspace.com 02:59:22 hmm, custom looks nicer than the default 03:01:29 Hmm, I find blargh more common than ping, contrary to what the Jargon File says. 03:01:50 I find that the meaning of "blargh" according to the Jargon File is wrong 03:02:06 Really? 03:02:07 It is now quite clearly a metasyntactic variable first and foremost. Get with the times 03:02:27 Only in your phenomic little world. ;-) 03:02:42 blargh 03:03:49 Cool, Roger was accepted. http://www.crypto.com/papers/fc02accepted.txt 03:04:58 ooh, someone needs to buy semanticweb.ai 03:05:10 even better: semanticweb.is.ai 03:05:57 i wonder what country .ai is 03:07:03 or thesw.is.ai 03:07:07 Hmm... no 03:07:15 http://the.semantic.web.is.ai/ 03:07:31 http://the.semantic.web.is.ai/so/f**k/you 03:07:36 heh heh 03:07:39 :-) 03:07:54 and its rival site: http://the.semantic.web.is.not.ai/so/f**k/you 03:09:38 Oh feckle, I can't get preformatted text to work properly 03:11:20 ah, I think I've got it 03:11:47 What an odd error: 03:11:48 dyld: /Users/aaronsw/Sputnix.app/Contents/MacOS/Sputnix can't get realpath of executable: /Users/aaronsw/Sputnix.app/Contents/MacOS/Sputnix (No such file or directory, errno = 2) 03:11:51 I need to make it spew the text out earlier so that it can recognize that it's still part of a preformatted block 03:11:58 Ooh, that is odd 03:12:00 dyld? 03:12:14 dynamic loader 03:12:36 i'm having problems like that all over. 03:12:38 Ooh, browser.py is now 3.86KB 03:12:44 like i can't even hopen the dyld man page! 03:12:52 perhaps I should reboot. 03:13:43 sbp: where is that? 03:14:10 Where is what? If you mean browser.py, it's not on the Web yet 03:14:26 shucks 03:14:47 Don't worry, it's no contest for Links 03:15:18 Aha! Preformatting works 03:16:20 Hmm... urllib is being really slow in getting the page 03:17:11 I'll probably switch to httplib at some point, anyway 03:18:48 Heh, forgot to add "span" to the list of inline elements... 03:20:16 actually, I guess that's a stupid way to do it 03:20:37 Most browsers render anything that they don't know, and just exclude the ones in the etc. 03:21:43 of course, I also want people to be able to configure it, and perhaps to eventually recognize stylesheets 03:23:10 Ooh, funny: it barfs on the news item headers on the W3C homepage 03:23:22

    Some text

    03:23:49 why? 03:23:54 I'm not sure 03:24:13 It just gives "@ " as the output, instead of "@ Some text" 03:26:11 Hmm... double line break in front of items. Not good 03:27:53 Wow, making a browser is very easy and very difficult at the same time 03:29:14 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m641-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:29:32 sbp (~sean@m641-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:33:54 ugh:

    An Aaron Swartz Project

    03:33:57 small? small? 03:34:08 on blogspace.com 03:34:24 I only noticed because my browser doesn't recognize crap like 03:34:59 tonight you're going to hear music you never heard before! 03:35:07 come again? 03:39:44 There we go: I changed it so that it spews out all data now except in the (and except for , which is also spewed) 03:39:55 <sbp> s/and // 03:40:26 <sbp> Hmm... at the moment, we get stuff like:- 03:40:27 <sbp> [[[ 03:40:27 <sbp> Also, we host the <<swhack/> #swhack Website>, complete with 03:40:28 <sbp> <<swhack/chatlogs/> chat logs> and <<swhack/weblog/> weblog>. 03:40:33 <sbp> ]]] - http://blogspace.com/ 03:40:49 <sbp> the <<URI> title> syntax lets you know that there's a link there 03:41:15 <sbp> I'm wondering if a) I should change the style b) I should put the base URI onto any relative links 03:41:37 <deltab> not while displaying them like that 03:41:50 <sbp> no... I suppose it would be a bit unweildy 03:50:51 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is watching a fascinating show about deaf culture on PBS. 03:51:12 <sbp> Hmm... I need to comply to "1.9 When a Web resource includes metadata that may be recognized by the user agent, allow the user to view that metadata." in CUAP 03:51:28 <sbp> Ooh, I could have a -meta flag 03:51:56 <sbp> it could get the usual <link> and <meta> stuff, but also follow a link to some RDF :-) 03:52:24 <sbp> Hmph... if the W3C's RDF Validator used GET, I could run it through that 03:54:03 <sbp> BUG: always misses the space before the first inline element in a block level element 03:54:45 <sbp> Hmph, why is it doing that? 03:56:04 <sbp> ah, of course. Duh 03:56:52 <sbp> I used string.strip instead of string.lstrip 03:57:05 <atariBed> atariBed is now known as atariboy 03:58:34 <AaronSw> Wow, thay was quite a show. 04:02:16 <AaronSw> @ http://www.pbs.org/wnet/soundandfury/ 04:02:29 <chumpster> A: Sound and Fury - Home from AaronSw 04:02:50 <AaronSw> A:|Sound and Fury 04:02:51 <chumpster> titled item A 04:03:14 <AaronSw> A::An absolutely wonderful documentary. Fascinating and informative, it explained a world to me that I never knew existed. 04:03:14 <chumpster> commented item A 04:03:25 <AaronSw> A::I want to learn sign language some day. 04:03:26 <chumpster> commented item A 04:03:43 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Canada: Our Eskimo Neighbors to the South 04:20:41 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:21:42 <deus_x> deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 04:22:44 <sbp> Aaron (or anyone), do you know who said """If you're going to give out a press release in PDF, you may as well bury it in your back yard."""? 04:22:55 <AaronSw> Yeah. 04:23:02 <AaronSw> Geoff in an email to me. why? 04:23:03 <sbp> Can you tell me? 04:23:15 <sbp> Ah, right, thanks. I was just writing an email to Stu 04:23:36 <sbp> Er... Geoff... Geoff Freed? 04:23:56 <sbp> [Stu sent me a PDF file, so I thought I'd rant a bit about PDF] 04:24:44 <AaronSw> No, Geoff from TidBITS. 04:24:54 <AaronSw> Geoff Duncan 04:25:13 <sbp> Cool. Many thanks 04:25:42 <AaronSw> lol: Geoff: "An Apple operating system like a Britney Spears album: slick, but wrong on *so* many levels. (Note to Apple: I want Unix on my desktop the same way Wayne Newton wants me in his backup band. Think about it.) " 04:25:55 <AaronSw> - http://www.quibble.com/geoff/ 04:26:13 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 04:28:56 <AaronSw> lol: "[I've been] all but one of the following: dishwasher, lab assistant, technical writer, software test lead, floor washer, story editor, musical arranger, statistical consultant, illustrator, book-vacuumer, and guest lecturer. Guess which one I wasn't." 04:28:58 <AaronSw> - ibid. 04:29:27 <sbp> ah, it can now get text/plain too:- 04:29:28 <sbp> [[[ 04:29:29 <sbp> $ python browser.py http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-09.txt 04:29:29 <sbp> Getting http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-09.txt... 04:29:29 <sbp> Got it: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 04:29:29 <sbp> 00:00:10 <sbp> sorry, 2.59KB 04:29:30 <sbp> 00:00:28 <AaronSw> Neat. 04:29:32 <sbp> [...] 04:29:34 <sbp> ]]] 04:30:12 <sbp> Guess which one he wasn't? Eek 04:33:38 <sbp> I'll go with guest lecturer, and overlook the fact that there are only three book-vacuumers in the world 04:33:45 <AaronSw> But wait! It's more than just a lamp: http://sakots.pekori.jp/imgboard/imgs/img20020107162803.jpg 04:34:43 <sbp> heh! 04:35:08 <deltab> haha 04:35:15 <AaronSw> deltab, wmf is getting: <wmf> Host unknown (Name server: espians.com: no data known) 04:36:13 <deltab> when doing what? 04:36:20 <AaronSw> when sending mail to me 04:38:23 <deltab> well, I don't know why, it's there 04:38:29 <AaronSw> yeah 04:38:41 <sbp> Problem on wmf's end, perhaps 04:39:16 <sbp> Ugh, talk about bloat... browser.py is now 4.33KB! 04:39:53 <tav> almost doubled! 04:40:41 <sbp> Oh dear, you 04:40:48 <sbp> you're right. That's terrible 04:42:22 <sbp> Hmm... I wonder how we get the response code through urllib2 04:42:56 <sbp> Pff, it would also be nice if it didn't barf when it came across a 401 04:44:18 <AaronSw> you get the response code from errors, i think 04:44:23 <sbp> Argh, trailing whitespace in pre... 04:44:32 <sbp> But 200 doesn't give an error 04:45:19 <AaronSw> well that's why it's 200 04:45:46 <sbp> Phew, that's better... 04:46:04 <sbp> Yeah, but I want the code anyway. 20x shouldn't give an error 04:46:11 <sbp> neither should 30x 04:47:21 <AaronSw> it's like object.status or something, isn't it? 04:48:17 <sbp> dunno - I'll look it up properly when I get back to it (I'm back on the HTML parser again) 04:49:17 <AaronSw> Have you seen my HTML->Text deeley? 04:49:38 <AaronSw> It's in TCL, but I like it a lot. 04:49:40 <sbp> textify.tcl? Yeah. Not seen the source, though 04:49:52 <AaronSw> Yeah, http://developer.arsdigita.com/api-doc/proc-view?proc=ad_html_to_text&source_p=1 04:49:55 <sbp> But it's in TCL anyway, not Python... 04:50:05 <sbp> It is cool though, I'll give you that 04:50:22 <AaronSw> Ooh, I'm on the WGBH website! http://www.wgbh.org/api-doc/proc-view?proc=ad_html_to_text 04:50:23 <AaronSw> :-) 04:51:27 <sbp> Hmm... I prefer my link syntax 04:51:51 <sbp> A matter of preference, I guess. I should give a choice 04:52:29 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 04:52:49 <deus_x> deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 04:54:12 <sbp> Hmm... I'm not quite sure how to do block vs. flow 04:54:50 <sbp> Roughly, I have a set of elements that print '/n/n' after themselves (block), a set that print '\n' (flow)m and a set that print nothing (inline) 04:55:35 <sbp> But that means that lists are <ul>(block)<li/>(flow)</> and so they get \n\n\n printed after them, which is a line break too many 04:58:01 <sbp> oh, heh, unless I make ul flow 04:58:21 <sbp> Ugh. See how terrible my HTML parser is? 04:59:12 <sbp> Ooh, that didn't work 04:59:27 <AaronSw> yeah, i like the way we did it in ad_html_to_text 04:59:33 <AaronSw> it solves those problems nicely 04:59:56 <sbp> I won't ask 05:00:16 <AaronSw> I don't remember how we solved them, so you'll have to figure it out yourself. 05:00:25 <AaronSw> I think we had a linebreak buffer... 05:00:39 <AaronSw> so if it had just spit out a line break, it wouldn't do it again. 05:00:57 <sbp> Ugh. That's the kind of hacking that I want to avoid 05:01:30 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h134-063.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:02:38 <sbp> Hmm... doesn't make sense: when I have ul as block, it appends two new lines. As flow, none 05:04:37 <AaronSw> hacking? I thought it was reasonably elegant. The element would set linebreak = 1, and then another piece of code would take care of it. 05:04:50 <AaronSw> linebreaks wouldn't pile up since they'd always be 0 or 1 05:05:20 <sbp> I do something a bit like that 05:06:25 <deltab> that's how margin collapsing is done in CSS 05:07:16 <deltab> the total space is the larger of the two 05:07:35 <deltab> or something like that 05:10:32 <AaronSw> Interesting: http://ali.apple.com/events/aliqttv/ 05:10:55 <sbp> aha, I think I've worked it out 05:12:02 <AaronSw> I should probably go to sleep now. nite 05:13:50 <sbp> Fixed 05:13:52 <sbp> 'night 05:14:26 <AaronSw> Goals for tomorrow: grok Chord, find best way to exercise. 05:14:31 <sbp> argh, no, not fixed... 05:15:32 <AaronSw> sleep 05:16:33 <sbp> ah, I think that the whitespace in the end of the <ul> is being pciked up 05:28:54 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m674-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 05:29:13 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m674-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:38:02 <sbp> There, fixed with a lot of hacking 05:38:06 <sbp> Gotta run 05:58:24 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:25:56 <GabeW> GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:27:17 <GabeW> GabeW has left #swhack 06:28:34 <GabeW> GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 07:00:50 <GabeW> .seen AaronSw 07:00:50 <xena> AaronSw seen in #swhack saying: [ sleep ] ~ 1 hr(s) 45 min(s) 17 sec(s) ago 07:01:11 <GabeW> .seen #rdfi 07:01:11 <xena> GabeW: no match found: #rdfi 07:01:13 <GabeW> .seen #rdfig 07:01:14 <xena> GabeW: no match found: #rdfig 07:25:04 <GabeW> GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:22:58 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:22:58 <BenSw|away> BenSw|away has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:45:46 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h134-063.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:46:28 <BenSW> BenSW (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 09:24:03 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:24:03 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h134-211.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:41:14 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-211.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:41:18 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:41:42 <tansaku2> tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 10:51:27 <atariboy> atariboy is now known as atariMovie 13:31:33 <BenSw`> BenSw` (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 13:31:51 <BenSw`> Hello 13:50:08 <AaronSw> hi 13:50:09 <BenSw`> BenSw` has quit (Remote closed the connection) 13:58:18 <atariMovie> atariMovie is now known as atariboy 14:06:23 <AaronSw> heh! http://www.scripting.com/images/2002/01/08/pixar.jpg 14:32:52 <em-mit> em-mit (~em@24-6-152.wireless.lcs.mit.edu) has joined #swhack 14:34:51 <AaronSw> hey em 14:43:09 <em-mit> howdy AaronSw :) how was the trip? 14:43:23 <AaronSw> it was great, thanks 14:43:56 <AaronSw> how was your vacation? 14:44:52 <em-mit> very short (albiet enjoyable)... www2002 consumed a chuck of it, but i did manage to do some much needed sysadmining, and coding 15:00:11 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:03:58 <deus_x> deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 17:24:05 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m393-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:30:24 <sbp> * sbp hacks on his browser a bit 17:44:49 <sbp> * sbp adds FTP capabilities 18:12:10 <sbp> cool, done 18:12:55 <sbp> Argh, browser size is a lofty 5.25KB 18:28:09 <AaronSw> @ http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/content/audio/I_Thought_We_Knew_That.mp3 18:28:13 <chumpster> B: http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/content/audio/I_Thought_We_Knew_That.mp3 from AaronSw 18:28:22 <AaronSw> B:|I Thought We Knew That.mp3 18:28:22 <chumpster> titled item B 18:29:00 <AaronSw> B::Larry Lessig MP3s! Rocking... 18:29:01 <chumpster> commented item B 18:29:15 <AaronSw> B::Check out some [more Lessig audio/video|http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/content/audio/] 18:29:16 <chumpster> commented item B 18:30:01 <AaronSw> Wow, this browser is going to be quite something when you're done, isn't it? 18:30:27 <AaronSw> B::via Zooko in #nowplaying 18:30:27 <chumpster> commented item B 18:30:34 <AaronSw> join #nowplaying and tell us what you're listening to 18:33:38 <AaronSw> B::lol: Gates: "We did not attempt to monopolize the browser market." Lessig: "Only a moron would think of saying that." 18:33:39 <chumpster> commented item B 18:35:32 <sbp> quite something: heh, heh 18:38:54 <sbp> I should learn TKInter, really, and go a GUI browser 18:39:00 <sbp> s/go/do/ 18:39:47 <sbp> But can you imagine programming a GUI? Aaaaaargh! 18:40:19 <sbp> The problem with that is that you have to cater for every little mouse click, tabbing, window geometry, and so on 18:42:58 <sbp> Well, this can do FTP, -head, -text, HTML rendering, and pipe in a URI, so that'll probably do 18:43:07 <sbp> it's not as if I'm actually going to use it for anything 18:43:28 <sbp> although I might use it for HEAD: I can never remember the cmd line for lynx 18:43:56 <sbp> and it 18:44:14 <sbp> it's good for getting a page that you can paste into IRC or email: it formats it, putting the links inline 18:57:52 <AaronSw> I use curl for HEAD. 18:57:58 <AaronSw> curl -I http://url.foo 18:58:10 <AaronSw> and textify.tcl for pasting into an email. 18:58:25 <AaronSw> It'd be cool to see you do a GUI -- I saw a lot of RDF graph visualization GUIs when I was at ILRT. 19:14:28 <AaronSw> .seen anubis3 19:14:40 <AaronSw> * AaronSw pokes xena 19:14:45 <AaronSw> xena is losing her edge 19:14:46 <xena> anubis3 seen joining #infoanarchy ~ 30 day(s) 15 hr(s) 26 min(s) 45 sec(s) ago 19:15:00 <AaronSw> 30 days... eek 19:17:17 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:49:41 <atariboy> atariboy has quit ("*gone*") 20:05:53 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m319-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:06:15 <AaronSw> sbp, did you hear about #nowplaying? 20:06:26 <sbp> no? 20:06:44 <AaronSw> it's where we share what we're listening to 20:07:31 <sbp> Heh, neat 20:08:22 <AaronSw> Perfect for you. ;-) 20:08:57 <sbp> damn straight 20:14:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders how the icon for his copy of Acrobat Reader got to be a folder. 20:15:34 <AaronSw> a 20:19:24 <AaronSw> test 20:30:00 <AaronSw> ouch, looks like Bernstein got a patent letter 20:30:01 <AaronSw> http://markBernstein.org/Jan0201.html#note_3404 20:31:17 <sbp> heh: """[...] the patent is written in esoterically amateur language that seems tantamount to gibberish. I doubt if anyone knows what this patent is trying to say.""" 20:32:46 <sbp> Ooh, it uses httplib now, but is still only 5.43KB 20:34:04 <sbp> argh, but it doesn't handle redirects 20:36:35 <sbp> Which is good actually - more flexibility 20:45:46 <sbp> Hmm... since I started using httplib, it's slowed down again. urllib was slow too. Only urllib2 opened HTTP URIs with any speed 20:46:56 <sbp> THe FTP part kicks ass - it streams the file out *as* its downloading it! 20:47:59 <AaronSw> Heh, heh, heh: 20:48:01 <AaronSw> .google sha512 20:48:03 <xena> sha512: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog 20:48:07 <AaronSw> :-) 20:48:10 <sbp> hooray! 20:48:30 <AaronSw> but I clearly need to link to it more, since we've not been indexed in a while 20:49:05 <sbp> YEah 20:49:16 <sbp> ARgh, DAmn IT 20:49:39 <AaronSw> he 20:49:42 <AaronSw> HEh 20:50:02 <sbp> MUST... RELEASE... SHIFT... KEy... 20:50:21 <AaronSw> odd... it doesn't recognize a backlink from aaronsw.com 20:51:42 <sbp> weird 20:53:20 <AaronSw> yeah, it is. especially since i was counting on those links to give us major google power 20:57:43 <sbp> heh, heh 20:58:00 <sbp> ask jillium, perhaps 20:59:54 <AaronSw> i clicked the "report a link you wanted to see here" thing and filled it out 21:00:09 <AaronSw> how many bits are in a sha512 hash? 21:00:51 <sbp> Hmm... I wonder 21:00:59 <AaronSw> i would have guessed 512, but my calculations return 2048 21:01:23 <sbp> Your calculations therefore suck 21:01:42 <AaronSw> my calculation: len(sha512.hexdigest())*16 21:01:46 <AaronSw> what's wrong with that? 21:02:04 <AaronSw> even if i'm off by two that leaves me with 1024 21:02:19 <sbp> try multiplying by 4 21:02:26 <sbp> instead of 16, that is 21:02:30 <AaronSw> why 4? 21:02:35 <sbp> just try it 21:02:41 <sbp> what answer do you get? 21:02:43 <AaronSw> it obviously works 21:02:51 <AaronSw> 128*4=512 21:02:59 <sbp> There you go, then. Now let's say no more about it 21:03:11 <AaronSw> That'd be cheating. 21:03:19 <sbp> Nah 21:04:05 <AaronSw> let's see... if it was in binary i'd multiply by 1 21:04:40 <sbp> can you do print sha512.hexdigest() 21:04:46 <AaronSw> 'f7fbba6e0636f890e56fbbf3283e524c6fa3204ae298382d624741d0dc6638326e282c41be5e4254d8820772c5518a2c5a8c0c7f7eda19594a7eb539453e1ed7' 21:07:36 <AaronSw> it appears your *4 metric is correct (it works on sha1) but i don't know why 21:08:45 <sbp> * sbp neither 21:11:20 <sbp> The lack of SHA 512 in Python is quite annoying 21:11:36 <sbp> s/quite/very/ 21:12:31 <AaronSw> Heh. 21:12:54 <sbp> and sha512.exe won't take a pipe 21:13:02 <sbp> ooh, I could write a Python wrapper for it 21:13:12 <sbp> what methods does sha512 have? 21:13:20 <AaronSw> same as usual: 21:13:25 <AaronSw> ['__del__', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'blocksize', 'copy', 'digest', 'digestsize', 'hexdigest', 'shaContext', 'update'] 21:13:25 <AaronSw> >> 21:13:38 <sbp> Mmmkay 21:16:26 <AaronSw> oh, i figured it out 21:16:40 <AaronSw> you need to multiply by the number of bits per character, not the number of characters per character. 21:16:51 <AaronSw> i.e. the square root of the latter. 21:16:56 <sbp> ah 21:24:03 <AaronSw> what's the keyword for assert in python? 21:25:05 <AaronSw> hmm, it is assert 21:25:15 <sbp> heh, heh 21:25:32 <sbp> Python: making everything too easy 21:25:57 <sbp> does sha512 have 'new'? 21:26:07 <sbp> x = sha512.new() 21:40:46 <sbp> getting there:- 21:40:47 <sbp> [[[ 21:40:47 <sbp> $ python 21:40:47 <sbp> Python 2.2 (#1, Dec 31 2001, 15:21:18) 21:40:47 <sbp> [GCC 2.95.3-5 (cygwin special)] on cygwin 21:40:47 <sbp> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. 21:40:49 <sbp> >>> import sha512 21:40:51 <sbp> >>> x = sha512.new() 21:40:53 <sbp> >>> x.update('x') 21:40:55 <sbp> >>> x.update('blargh') 21:40:57 <sbp> >>> x.hexdigest() 21:40:59 <sbp> 'SHA512 : sometempfile\r\n\r\n 52e9282e113609adb255c4d797d9c450642f94cf580e0353a4cb9481d53fff58\r\n 524ce1433ed62743e14ae421da539e94fc416c4c49d53c1bf27afa0db6dda748\r\n' 21:41:02 <sbp> >>> 21:41:06 <sbp> ]]] 21:42:31 <sbp> aha:- 21:42:32 <sbp> [[[ 21:42:32 <sbp> >>> x.hexdigest() 21:42:32 <sbp> '4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1' 21:42:33 <sbp> ]]] 21:43:09 <AaronSw> cool 21:43:20 <AaronSw> can you just do x.new('foo').hexdigest() 21:43:21 <AaronSw> ? 21:43:27 <sbp> nope, not yet 21:43:56 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is trying to translate the Chord paper into Python 21:43:59 <AaronSw> it's slow going 21:44:39 <AaronSw> I understand how Chord works, but I don't understand the paper so well. 21:44:48 <AaronSw> Maybe i'm missing some math... 21:44:49 <sbp> [[[ 21:44:49 <sbp> >>> sha512.new('blargh').hexdigest() 21:44:50 <sbp> '4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1' 21:44:50 <sbp> ]]] 21:45:58 <AaronSw> what's sha512.new().__class__? 21:46:35 <Morbus> Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 21:46:42 <AaronSw> hey Morbus 21:46:43 <Morbus> AaronSw, you said Python was NOT installed by default in OS X, right? 21:47:12 <AaronSw> I don't recall saying that. 21:47:22 <Morbus> ok. is python installed by default on OS X? 21:47:39 <AaronSw> i believe so... either that or with the devtools. 21:47:44 <AaronSw> is perl installed by default? 21:48:02 <Morbus> yeah, but you can't use CPAN without the devtools. 21:48:14 <sbp> [[[ 21:48:15 <sbp> >>> sha512.new().__class__ 21:48:15 <sbp> <class sha512.SHA512 at 0x10145158> 21:48:16 <sbp> ]]] 21:48:19 <Morbus> that's what i've been told though. i dunno for sure. 21:48:31 <sbp> Morbus?! 21:48:43 <sbp> Heh, I thought I was in the wrong channel for a second, there 21:48:50 <AaronSw> Hmm... maybe it isn't installed by default. 21:48:53 <Morbus> don't worry, i'm not staying long. just pumping aaron for info, then i'm outta here faster than a d00d at a 0day. 21:49:15 <Morbus> yeah, i was under that impression too. i can't check though, of course. 21:49:15 <sbp> Mmmkay 21:49:54 <AaronSw> Python 2.0 got in /usr/bin somehow 21:50:18 <AaronSw> let me check other machine ... brb 21:51:36 <BenSW> * AaronSw twiddles thumbs 21:51:44 <Morbus> heh, heh. 21:52:05 <BenSW> <AaronSw> Hmm, terminal isn't opening 21:53:56 <sbp> heh, heh 21:54:11 <sbp> Gotta run 21:54:32 <BenSW> hmm, it's not on here 21:54:51 <BenSW> <AaronSw> and this has the developer tools 21:55:12 <Morbus> ok. that's what i needed to know. thank you kindly. 21:55:23 <AaronSw> np 21:55:27 <Morbus> Morbus has left #swhack 21:55:43 <AaronSw> Ooh: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_apps_utilities/python21.html 21:57:01 <AaronSw> i'm taking bets on how long it takes tav to join #nowplaying 22:08:45 <AaronSw> Hmm, Wolfgang Nejdl and Stefan Decker are on the Edutella project. 22:10:22 <AaronSw> Edutella components include: 22:10:29 <AaronSw> * Query Service: Standardized query and retrieval of RDF metadata. 22:10:29 <AaronSw> * Replication Service: Provide data persistence / availability and workload balancing while maintaining data integrity and consistency. 22:10:29 <AaronSw> * Mapping Service: Translate between different metadata vocabularies to enable interoperability between different peers. 22:10:29 <AaronSw> * Annotation Service: Annotate materials stored anywhere in the Edutella Network. 22:11:53 <AaronSw> heh: http://www.kbs.uni-hannover.de/Diverses/edutella-archive/discussion/msg00147.html 22:14:19 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:47:20 <AaronSw> Hmm, edutella is inventing their own query language, rdf conversion mechanism, etc. 22:48:46 <AaronSw> I think that's the wrong place for something like that. 22:51:06 <AaronSw> I like how Bit Torrent went from version one-point-oh to one-point-oh shit, in the words of Bram. ;-) 23:02:14 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m336-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:11:02 <sbp> ta da: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/att-0025/01-sha512.py 23:16:38 <sbp> * sbp lengthens an old song that he wrote 23:16:47 <sbp> let's time it 23:16:48 <sbp> .time 23:16:50 <xena> 2002/01/09 23:18:27.6259 Universal 23:19:07 <sbp> .time 23:19:08 <xena> 2002/01/09 23:20:46.2678 Universal 23:19:18 <sbp> Hmm... pretty good. Just about long enough 23:25:06 <sbp> Perhaps I can make an arpeggio of it, although that might make it a bit weak 23:25:21 <sbp> I did used to do that to AXV when I'd play it to people, but gave in after a while 23:26:31 <sbp> Nope, sounds better strummed 23:32:10 <sbp> * sbp updates songs.html 23:34:37 <sbp> Pff, even Stu commented the other day that I can't write songs like AXV anymore 23:34:50 <sbp> He's right, and it's annoying 23:36:54 <hazmat> hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 23:37:24 <AaronSw> songs.html? 23:37:26 <AaronSw> AXV? 23:37:42 <sbp> uh huh 23:38:09 <AaronSw> full uri for songs.html? 23:38:20 <sbp> logster, grep <sbp> .*A.*x.*v 23:39:05 <logster> I'm logging. I found 30 answers for '<sbp> .*A.*x.*v' (showing 0...4) 23:39:06 <logster> 0) 2002-01-09 23:38:20 <sbp> logster, grep <sbp> .*A.*x.*v 23:39:07 <logster> 1) 2002-01-08 04:16:17 <sbp> Aaron, can you be canonical about links to http://www.plexdev.org/ ? 23:39:08 <logster> 2) 2001-12-31 23:33:21 <sbp> Well, it's counter intuitive. Archiving everything has only recently become possible - even feasable on the level that the Plex is being designed for. And there are the complexities of searching billions of triples for really simple search patterns. If it wasn't for things like Google, you wouldn't have thought that such searches would be possible 23:39:09 <logster> 3) 2001-12-31 23:25:26 <sbp> Ah. But wasn't the problem that xena wasn't relaying the text over? 23:39:11 <logster> 4) 2001-12-30 01:26:01 <sbp> When you think about it, if Alexa and Google can store all that content, there's not much need for people paying out for server space. Memory is so cheap these days, so the situation is getting better 23:39:14 <sbp> full URI is something like file://c:/[...]/songs.html 23:39:22 <sbp> well, that was good 23:39:27 <AaronSw> You know that never works. 23:39:30 <sbp> Heh, heh 23:39:34 <AaronSw> you need to do [^ ] not . 23:39:52 <sbp> AXV is the filename abbreviation that I use for Alexandr'a Views 23:40:32 <AaronSw> aha 23:43:40 <sbp> The mixed reacations that I've got upon playing it to people are pretty fun 23:43:57 <AaronSw> You didn't play it for me, did you? 23:44:05 <sbp> nope 23:44:16 <AaronSw> i've somee comments on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/att-0025/01-sha512.py 23:44:24 <AaronSw> like what's up with """Copyright (C) 2001 Sean B. Palmer. GNU GPL 2"? 23:44:32 <sbp> As far as I recall, I played The Rain Song 23:44:37 <AaronSw> yeah, that was cool 23:44:39 <sbp> What about it? 23:44:46 <AaronSw> having a bout of quote indecison? 23:44:54 <AaronSw> triple quotes, double quotes? 23:44:54 <sbp> oh, heh! 23:45:00 <sbp> forgot to strip that off 23:45:03 <sbp> oh well, who cares 23:45:21 <AaronSw> and you should use the tempfile module 23:45:23 <hazmat> regarding plex, how is it going to efficiently search through the mass of triples? 23:45:24 <sbp> me playing the Rain Song cool: I hit two wrong notes. Two! Shoews how nervous I was 23:45:41 <sbp> tempfile - I like my little times based solution. I use that a lot now 23:45:43 <AaronSw> Heh, heh. I wish I could play that well. 23:45:47 <hazmat> i haven't seen any indexing technologies in python up to the task. 23:46:01 <AaronSw> hazmat, on a network basis or a local one? 23:46:23 <hazmat> local 23:46:30 <AaronSw> for the local one, we're investigating building our own lightweight rdf database and storage system, possibly based on irondoc 23:47:00 <hazmat> .google irondoc 23:47:02 <xena> irondoc: http://www.irondoc.net/home.html 23:47:16 <AaronSw> .google mccusker irondoc 23:47:17 <xena> mccusker irondoc: http://www.best.com/~mccusker/irondoc/irondoc.htm 23:47:48 <AaronSw> Initially, however, we're just going to use anydbm. 23:47:59 <AaronSw> (which is how everyone else I know does it) 23:48:12 <hazmat> which is not scalable. 23:48:40 <hazmat> berkelydb would be a better choice 23:48:45 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:48:52 <AaronSw> by anydbm i meant berkeleydb (ideally) 23:49:51 <hazmat> the functionality offered by the raw python bindings to bdb is much more advanced than a simple anydbm interface. it includes additional functionality like transactions and customization of the indexing structure (hash, btree, heap, etc.). 23:50:11 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m56-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 23:50:30 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m56-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:50:46 <AaronSw> I know, but I looked thru it and didn't see anything I needed. 23:50:52 <hazmat> ok. 23:50:54 <AaronSw> Is there something I missed? 23:51:20 <hazmat> well if you think its adequate, than no. 23:51:36 <AaronSw> obviously, this is not a long-term solution 23:51:39 <hazmat> i would just be concerned about managing potentially gigabytes of info via that interface. 23:51:54 <hazmat> esp. without transactions to maintain integrity. 23:51:58 <AaronSw> yeah, me too, which is why i'm working my way thru "Managing Gigabytes". 23:52:03 <AaronSw> :-) 23:52:08 <sbp> heh, heh 23:52:16 <sbp> .google "Managing Gigabytes" 23:52:17 <xena> "Managing Gigabytes": http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/mg 23:52:19 <hazmat> and the customization of the indexing storages to make searches timely 23:52:24 <sbp> .google "Managing Gigabytes" now with a forward by Aaron Swartz 23:52:25 <xena> no results found. 23:52:28 <sbp> blargh 23:52:29 <AaronSw> heh heh 23:52:34 <hazmat> check out some of the papers from doug cutting. 23:52:36 <hazmat> and lucene. 23:52:41 <hazmat> .google lucene 23:52:42 <xena> lucene: http://jakarta.apache.org/lucene 23:52:47 <AaronSw> Lucene looks cool... I hadn't thought about it in this context, tho. 23:53:02 <AaronSw> I keep meaning to add it to Blogspace. 23:54:09 <AaronSw> Do you think Lucene fields would be good for storing/querying RDF? 23:54:14 <hazmat> the core functionality are the same, rapidly being able to search through vast amounts of information. 23:54:38 <hazmat> AaronSw: it would require some customization to create the index to do rdf associations, i would think. 23:54:46 <AaronSw> I guess the ideal thing might be PostgreSQL. 23:54:56 <AaronSw> or maybe even (gasp!) MySQL. 23:55:47 <hazmat> an rdbms does really sound tempting, since its basically relationship matching. but is it appropiate? 23:55:54 <sbp> Just remember, the simpler (less dependencies) the better. Then again, as long as it can be packed, I suppose it doesn't matter 23:56:01 <sbp> s/packed/packaged/ 23:56:22 <AaronSw> Exactly. That's why I've shied away from full SQL DBs. 23:56:43 <AaronSw> A lot of the more advanced RDF QLs have been built atop full RDBMS 23:56:53 <sbp> Yeah 23:57:05 <sbp> But by "advanced", do you mean "quick"? 23:57:24 <sbp> Has anyone does a decent benchmark of the best RDF APIs? 23:57:29 <hazmat> i think alot of that derives from the lack of good indexing systems that are flexibile and scalable enough . 23:57:30 <AaronSw> No, but it's probably faster than a simple lightweight db 23:57:37 <sbp> er... RDFQ APIs, that is 23:57:54 <AaronSw> Well, RDFQs are really young! 23:58:01 <AaronSw> I'm interested in how RDQL turns out. 23:58:13 <AaronSw> And of course we'll support RDAP. 23:58:34 <hazmat> i'm still one the beg. of the rdf learning curve. a novice still. sigh.. so much to learn. 23:58:39 <hazmat> s/one/on 23:59:02 <sbp> Nah, RDF's just a big feck of a Webized database format 23:59:06 <AaronSw> You seem to have picked up a surprising amount! 23:59:13 <AaronSw> Yeah, sbp's got it. 23:59:47 <hazmat> is irondoc usable? 23:59:55 <sbp> .google irondoc 23:59:56 <xena> irondoc: http://www.irondoc.net/home.html �������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-10.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000154317�07417417166�011704� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:03 <hazmat> is it tied to mithril? 00:00:11 <sbp> Hmm... that's not it :-) 00:00:20 <sbp> ah http://www.best.com/~mccusker/irondoc/irondoc.htm 00:00:27 <AaronSw> no, irondoc is vaporware 00:00:38 <deltab> now http://www.treedragon.com/ged/fe/fe.htm 00:01:01 <AaronSw> " IronDoc currently has the status of vaporware, and has held this explicitly noted status since the middle of 1997, so this situation is not new." 00:01:20 <sbp> Ooh, I remember you talking about IronDoc ages ago 00:01:29 <AaronSw> Yeah, and danbri ages before that. 00:01:57 <AaronSw> irondoc has quite a history 00:03:22 <AaronSw> Heh: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#08jan02 00:04:01 <hazmat> looks like irondoc has been designed into the ground. 00:04:10 <sbp> heh 00:04:21 <sbp> at "Previously we resolved the conflict by not celebrating mine" 00:04:26 <sbp> ooh, forgot the period! 00:04:29 <sbp> at "Previously we resolved the conflict by not celebrating mine." 00:04:35 <sbp> I do apologize 00:04:36 <AaronSw> heh at "1 in 365 of course" 00:04:37 <hazmat> thats interesting i was talking to one of the people listed there about applying workflow to parsedxml. dethra of burning tiger. 00:05:06 <AaronSw> irondoc has a lot of history: Mozilla, Netscape, Apple's OpenDoc, etc. 00:06:48 <hazmat> but its vaporware, regardless of its history... although it seems to have influenced some people/projects. 00:07:43 <AaronSw> to tav, from the yet-another-zope-replacement dept. http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/ 00:08:06 <sbp> Heard of Apache? 00:08:18 <AaronSw> No, is that some sort of helicopter? 00:08:25 <sbp> well... yes... 00:08:56 <AaronSw> interesting: "free license Commented source code for Mithril and IronDoc will be copyrighted, but free for any use without restriction. Uncommented source code will be public domain. Notice a careful separation between what software does and what it means." 00:09:33 <hazmat> i had an interesting discussion yesterday about free software licenses and community on #zope 00:09:44 <AaronSw> Oh? 00:10:14 <hazmat> * hazmat is looking for an archive link 00:10:56 <AaronSw> i thought what lisa and diane said was funny: http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#06jan02-crazier 00:12:20 <hazmat> http://irclogs.espnow.com/zope-logs/show_file.php?logfile=2002_01_09.log 00:12:35 <hazmat> between the jester, myself, and webmaven 00:13:05 <hazmat> starting aroung 05:50 00:14:00 <AaronSw> hmm 00:14:16 <sbp> * sbp adds a bit more code to browser.py - it's addictive! 00:15:28 <sbp> Hmm... if I'm going to do it properly, I need to factor out the HTML Parser, don't I? But I don't wanna! 00:16:58 <AaronSw> TheJester seems pretty reasonable 00:23:08 <hazmat> he is. he's a bsd advocate. 00:23:37 <hazmat> i'm curious how patents affect free software. 00:23:56 <sbp> RDF is free :-) 00:23:58 <hazmat> i started reading through the fsf material after the discussion. 00:24:12 <hazmat> voicexml is patent encumbered though. 00:25:05 <AaronSw> a bsd advoacate. bleech 00:25:21 <AaronSw> software patents suck 00:25:26 <AaronSw> @ http://www.scripting.com/stories/2002/01/09/kevinKellyTheWebRunsOnLoveNotGreed.html 00:25:31 <chumpster> A: Kevin Kelly: The Web Runs on Love, Not Greed from AaronSw 00:25:51 <AaronSw> A::"High-profile portal sites like Yahoo and AOL will continue to consolidate and demand our attention (and maybe make some money), while millions of smaller sites and hundreds of millions of users do the heavy work of creating content that is used and linked. These will be paid entirely in the gift economy." 00:25:52 <chumpster> commented item A 00:28:01 <hazmat> it was good to have the discussion, cause i haven't really challenged my free software beliefs. bbiab. 00:28:52 <sbp> Hmm... I think I'm less left-wing than I used to be. Is that good or not, d'ya reckon? 00:29:35 <AaronSw> A::Reminds me of [The People's Net|http://yil.com/features/feature.asp?volume=07&issue=07&keyword=peoplesnet] by Ruskoff. 00:29:36 <chumpster> commented item A 00:29:40 <AaronSw> good, of course. :) 00:29:45 <sbp> :-) 00:30:01 <AaronSw> do you mean left wing or lower wing? 00:30:20 <sbp> lower wing? 00:30:28 <AaronSw> yeah, as in the political compass 00:30:37 <AaronSw> lower wing is libertarian 00:30:43 <AaronSw> upper is authoritarian 00:30:58 <sbp> ah 00:31:18 <sbp> Er... I think I'm about the same on that axis, but less left wing 00:31:21 <AaronSw> i disklike folks who use mailing lists as chat forums. 00:31:36 <AaronSw> but you just said you were more left wing 00:31:40 <sbp> you disk like them? Is disk a verb? 00:31:45 <sbp> <sbp> Hmm... I think I'm less left-wing than I used to be. Is that good or not, d'ya reckon? 00:31:46 <AaronSw> :-) 00:31:55 <AaronSw> oops, i misread that. 00:31:58 <AaronSw> bad, of course. 00:31:59 <sbp> heh, heh 00:32:09 <sbp> Yeah, well you're as left as they get 00:32:15 <AaronSw> Heh. 00:32:40 <AaronSw> Your arguments about the Euro demonstrated that you've been brainwashed by the conservative British media. 00:32:43 <sbp> To you, Tony Benn is an authoritarian conservative :-) 00:32:45 <deltab> sbp: it is: v : draw a harrow over (land) [syn: {harrow}] 00:32:57 <AaronSw> Heh heh heh. 00:33:00 <sbp> disk? great 00:33:18 <sbp> I argued about the Euro? 00:33:26 <sbp> Oh right, I guess I did 00:33:39 <sbp> I don't listen to the conservative British media. They're rather silly 00:33:39 <AaronSw> Must be too much BBC 24 00:34:30 <sbp> Dunno where I got it from 00:34:57 <AaronSw> Doid explained to me that the Euro is a political, not an economic thing. 00:35:04 <AaronSw> Which makes sense. 00:35:16 <sbp> Yeah, sure 00:35:21 <AaronSw> But now I'm not sure I like it, since it's all about globalization. 00:35:43 <AaronSw> I mean, if you unify the european governments into one, there's not going to be much hope for diversity 00:36:03 <AaronSw> hmm, i wish i knew where my political compass score was. 00:36:05 <sbp> My problem with it is that it seems to involve countries whose economic policies don't tradionally fit with one anothers 00:36:13 <sbp> Do the test again 00:36:18 <AaronSw> It was so long... 00:36:30 <sbp> Pff, didn't take more than five minutes 00:36:39 <sbp> Perhaps you're undecided :-) 00:36:48 <sbp> er... indecisive 00:37:15 <AaronSw> Heh, heh. 00:37:20 <AaronSw> OK, I'm taking it again. 00:37:42 <sbp> Good, good 00:37:46 <sbp> * sbp digs out his score 00:38:13 <sbp> [[[ 00:38:13 <sbp> Economic Left/Right: -2.13 00:38:14 <sbp> Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.21 00:38:14 <sbp> ]]] 00:38:26 <AaronSw> .wn protectionism 00:38:28 <xena> protectionism defined as: 00:38:29 <xena> - n : the policy of imposing duties or quotas on imports in order to protect home industries from overseas competition 00:39:05 <sbp> Interesting issue 00:39:22 <AaronSw> Argh, how am i supposed to know what they mean by "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." 00:39:30 <AaronSw> Is that in the Islamic or Jewish sense? 00:39:35 <sbp> Yeah, some of the questions were crappily vague 00:39:45 <AaronSw> I'll assume Islamic. 00:39:51 <sbp> And they didn't let you do neutral 00:39:57 <deltab> Draconian 00:40:13 <AaronSw> .wn draconian 00:40:14 <xena> Draconian defined as: 00:40:15 <xena> - adj : of or relating to Draco or his harsh code of laws; "Draconian measures" [syn: {Draconian}] 00:40:19 <AaronSw> ok 00:40:23 <sbp> if I was neutral on an issue, the next time I'd come across a question I was neutral on, I score it the other way 00:40:46 <deltab> are there differing Islamic and Jewish sense? 00:41:12 <AaronSw> do you mean senses? 00:41:17 <AaronSw> Heh! "Good parents sometimes have to spank their children, to teach them right from wrong." 00:41:18 <deltab> yes 00:41:49 <AaronSw> Probably differening positions of it in Islam, but Judaism's position is pretty clear. 00:41:58 <AaronSw> (i.e. it means an eye for the value of an eye) 00:43:33 <sbp> erm... I think you mean the value of an eye for an eye 00:44:02 <AaronSw> err, something like that ;) 00:44:13 <sbp> Never write a statute 00:45:12 <AaronSw> [[[ 00:45:13 <AaronSw> Economic Left/Right: -5.00 00:45:13 <AaronSw> Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.72 00:45:14 <AaronSw> ]]] 00:45:20 <AaronSw> heh heh heh 00:45:24 <sbp> wow 00:45:41 <AaronSw> i wonder why i'm so far right 00:46:08 <sbp> I was wondering that 00:46:16 <AaronSw> ok, time for dinner. 00:46:19 <sbp> c'ya 00:46:23 <AaronSw> c'ya 00:46:51 <sbp> Pff, Aaron's gone all Libertarian on us 00:47:18 <sbp> or as the policical compass says "anarchy" 00:47:37 <em-mit> em-mit has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:47:44 <sbp> i.e. anarchic 00:48:49 <sbp> * sbp starts to read up on TKInter again 00:48:59 <sbp> Hmm... I really don't like TKinter; can't get into it 01:02:18 <sbp> OTOH, IDLE is wonderful 01:03:23 <hazmat> wingide rulz 01:03:29 <hazmat> :) 01:03:41 <sbp> .google wingide 01:03:43 <xena> wingide: http://www.archaeopteryx.com 01:04:07 <hazmat> i've stopped using emacs for python dev because of it. saves so much typing. much nicer than komodo for python dev. the source browser is excellent for looking at new packages that your exploring. 01:05:15 <sbp> heh: """Wing IDE is written primarily in Python, so it's easy to debug (with itself)""" - http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide/hilites 01:07:28 <tav> hazmat: you actually used komodo? 01:08:11 <AaronSw> i'm a total anarchist! 01:08:27 <sbp> argh! it returns 01:08:59 <sbp> Aaron, write a GUI interface for browser.py 01:09:03 <sbp> Put it on your TODO list 01:09:07 <AaronSw> Heh heh 01:09:20 <tav> you could use espygui ;p 01:09:22 <sbp> Aw... I was serious :-) 01:09:28 <sbp> .google espygui 01:09:29 <xena> no results found. 01:09:29 <AaronSw> I tried to modify some of ?!ng's TK stuff for rdf graph visualization, but it's too confusing 01:09:33 <hazmat> tav: i got a free commercial license from AS 01:09:41 <sbp> Pff, it doesn't exist according to Google 01:09:51 <AaronSw> it doesn't exist 01:09:53 <AaronSw> period 01:09:55 <AaronSw> :-) 01:09:57 <tav> liar 01:10:02 <hazmat> tav: plus i was working with developers on windoze at the time so it helped to have a common dev env. 01:10:03 <tav> you lie so fucking much AaronSw 01:10:07 <AaronSw> well, it exists in tav's head 01:10:17 <AaronSw> apologies 01:10:21 <tav> i have a dll here that says you are a liar 01:10:40 <AaronSw> I'd like to hear it say that. 01:10:49 <AaronSw> I didn't know you built in text to speech! 01:10:54 <AaronSw> :-) 01:10:57 <sbp> and AI 01:10:59 <hazmat> tav: i found it more interesting as an example of using the mozilla arch to create cross platform apps. 01:11:06 <tav> ah 01:11:09 <tav> it's a good xul app 01:11:18 <tav> i used it to learn a lot of xul 01:11:32 <AaronSw> tav, you need to learn the difference between lying and not being omniscient. 01:11:41 <sbp> heh, heh 01:11:51 <AaronSw> just because you... 01:11:53 <tav> but, as to practically being useful by itself... 01:12:04 <tav> -- 01:12:04 <tav> <AaronSw> it doesn't exist 01:12:05 <tav> <AaronSw> period 01:12:05 <tav> -- 01:12:35 <tav> you should then say "it doesn't exist afaik" or somewhat 01:13:02 <AaronSw> set your client up to add an afaik, fwiw, ianal after everything i say 01:13:31 <tav> no, the <AaronSw> period is what i have qualms with 01:13:48 <tav> you just don't go around spreading lies like that 01:14:06 <AaronSw> sheesh 01:14:14 <AaronSw> it wasn't like you weren't here to correct me 01:14:23 <AaronSw> and the period was to distinguish between not being on google 01:16:44 <AaronSw> where's that espian compass thing? 01:16:57 <tav> .google espian political compass 01:16:59 <xena> no results found. 01:17:19 <tav> logster, grep espian-political 01:18:04 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'espian-political' 01:18:05 <logster> 0) 2002-01-10 01:17:19 <tav> logster, grep espian-political 01:18:09 <tav> hmz 01:18:16 <tav> logster, grep espians-political 01:18:25 <logster> I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'espians-political' 01:18:26 <logster> 0) 2002-01-10 01:18:16 <tav> logster, grep espians-political 01:18:27 <logster> 1) 2002-01-06 20:52:30 <tav`> http://mu2.espnow.com/~talon/html/espians-political-views-graphical.htm 01:18:28 <logster> 2) 2002-01-06 20:51:54 <tav`> espians-political-views-graphical.htm 01:20:14 <AaronSw> wow, i'm right next to tav 01:20:22 <sbp> Ooh! Poor you 01:20:23 <tav> * tav runs 01:20:24 <sbp> :-) 01:20:33 <tav> what's your score? 01:20:35 <sbp> the "you" was directed at either one of you 01:20:42 <tav> lol 01:20:43 <sbp> <AaronSw> [[[ 01:20:44 <sbp> <AaronSw> Economic Left/Right: -5.00 01:20:44 <sbp> <AaronSw> Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.72 01:20:44 <sbp> <AaronSw> ]]] 01:20:44 <AaronSw> Economic Left/Right: -5.00 01:20:44 <AaronSw> Authoritarian/Libertarian: -8.72 01:20:48 <sbp> blargh 01:20:54 <AaronSw> tav -4.69 -8.12 01:21:22 <sbp> wow, you're more extreme than tav 01:21:30 <AaronSw> heh! 01:23:23 <AaronSw> IIP should be plexified 01:23:26 <sbp> .google 0x90 01:23:27 <AaronSw> IIP: http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip 01:23:28 <xena> 0x90: http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/ntfs/attributes/index_root.html 01:23:37 <sbp> Yeah 01:24:26 <sbp> 0x90: """This is the root node of the B+ tree that implements an index (e.g. a directory).""". Er yeah. Of course 01:24:29 <AaronSw> IIP: http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip 01:24:32 <AaronSw> .google IIP 01:24:34 <xena> IIP: http://usinfo.state.gov 01:25:53 <tav> iip should not be plexified 01:25:57 <tav> iip is a stupid idea 01:26:11 <AaronSw> why? 01:26:16 <AaronSw> we're all about plexified anonymous irc 01:26:28 <tav> why irc? 01:26:32 <AaronSw> .wn plexification 01:26:34 <sbp> IRC is just another protocol that can sit on the Plex 01:26:44 <AaronSw> yeah, why not? 01:26:49 <sbp> You put out a bit of data, someone else scoops it up 01:26:57 <sbp> that's the Plex all over 01:27:19 <sbp> and if you digitally encrypt it, then you have secure channels 01:27:39 <tav> iip is just a lousy form of cryptobox 01:27:51 <sbp> .google cryptobox 01:27:52 <xena> cryptobox: http://cryptobox.sourceforge.net 01:27:54 <AaronSw> tav's in a grumpy mood, it seems 01:28:39 <tav> quite true 01:29:00 <tav> but, point still stands 01:29:25 <tav> if people didn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel the everytime, we'd be so much further along 01:30:04 <sbp> it's O.K. reinventing the wheel as long as you come up with a better wheel 01:30:19 <sbp> of course, that didn't happen to the actual wheel until mag. rims 01:30:34 <AaronSw> i disagree with tav 01:30:55 <tav> sbp: but most often than not, in attempting to reinvent the wheel people create fucking squares 01:31:01 <sbp> yeah 01:31:03 <tav> now playing Themes - A Team.alt 01:31:16 <sbp> hey, take it to #nowplaying :-) 01:31:20 <tav> fuck you 01:31:23 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 01:31:47 <tav> i used to love this show 01:31:55 <AaronSw> what's TPSFKARM - The Postal Service Formerly Known As Royal Mail called now? 01:32:01 <AaronSw> it seemed to be called royal mail when i was there 01:32:06 <tav> consignia 01:32:07 <sbp> Yeah, it was many people's 80's favourite 01:32:09 <deltab> 'Consignia' 01:32:21 <AaronSw> where'd they get a stupid name like that? 01:32:23 <sbp> Yep. Odd name, I reckon 01:32:25 <AaronSw> did they privatize it or somehting? 01:32:29 <sbp> Computer generated, I believe 01:32:30 <tav> stupid fucked up idiots 01:32:31 <sbp> Privatize: yep 01:32:40 <AaronSw> Stupid Jeffrey Mamet. 01:33:26 <sbp> Every time we privatize something in the U.K., we think "ooh, that's good, we'll get better service", but instead it just sucks even more 01:33:32 <tav> if i die, before i'm 27 01:33:46 <tav> someone please carry things out to the end, and change the world for me 01:33:59 <sbp> Aaron will 01:34:01 <AaronSw> yeah, thus the Jeffrey Mamet quip, sbp. 01:34:06 <AaronSw> sbp, yeah, right. 01:34:23 <AaronSw> i thought it was going to take 5 years, tav. 01:34:37 <AaronSw> </sarcasm> 01:35:17 <sbp> Jeffrey Mamet? 01:35:36 <AaronSw> Didn't you see that hilarious documentary on channel 4? 01:35:43 <tav> urgh tv 01:35:52 <AaronSw> what else will you do in london? 01:35:53 <sbp> Obviously not 01:35:54 <AaronSw> :-) 01:36:03 <AaronSw> it was pretty funny 01:37:02 <AaronSw> Interviewer: So privatizing the rail will make it faster and more reliable? 01:37:03 <AaronSw> Mamet: Well... folks will have a choice of trains... we'll put them all on the track and they can bump into each other and fight it out 01:37:03 <AaronSw> Interviewer: So consumers get more choice? 01:37:03 <AaronSw> Mamet: Well... they can get on a train, enjoy themselves, and maybe -- just maybe go somewhere. 01:37:06 <AaronSw> -- 01:37:41 <AaronSw> Interviewer: So as an adviser to the government, did you give them good advice? 01:37:41 <AaronSw> Mamet: Of course, I don't think I ever gave them a piece of advice that didn't help me in some way. 01:37:41 <AaronSw> -- 01:37:59 <sbp> heh, heh 01:38:07 <tav> heh 01:38:14 <sbp> no, tav 01:38:21 <tav> hmz? 01:38:21 <sbp> it worth worth a double "heh" 01:38:23 <sbp> not single 01:38:31 <tav> i don't do double hehs 01:38:31 <AaronSw> it was a really funny show 01:38:41 <tav> i do 'heh', 'hehe', 'hehehe' 01:38:54 <sbp> ah. Well, it's probably a "hehe" on your scale, then 01:39:06 <sbp> but I'm not sure. It's difficult to translate 01:39:20 <sbp> s/it/it's/ 01:39:30 <AaronSw> heh, heh: http://maur.espnow.com/files/Salutations_from_Maur_and_ESPgod.avi 01:39:33 <tav> just use .translate dek-eng 01:39:49 <AaronSw> note the two hehs. 01:39:56 <sbp> thanks 01:39:56 <AaronSw> such a large file tho 01:40:06 <tav> wtf is it with the hehs ? 01:40:36 <tav> hmz, coming onto irc hasn't been inspiring today 01:40:36 <sbp> we like discussing them. It's one of the primary aims of #swhack 01:40:51 <sbp> go someplace else, then 01:40:52 <AaronSw> you haven't exactly been very inspired. 01:40:52 <tav> hmz, how do you deal with death? 01:41:12 <AaronSw> ah, it all makes sense now 01:41:14 <sbp> we don't tend to discuss that here. Try #esp 01:41:45 <tav> anette's there, it'd depress her 01:42:35 <sbp> Hmm... 01:43:12 <sbp> I suppose that #swhack is a refuge/escape/shelter from the drugery and senselessness of the modern era 01:43:17 <tav> for someone whose so at ease with his own death, i fucking suck at handling others' death 01:43:21 <sbp> er... drudgery 01:43:33 <tav> swhack is what? 01:43:39 <sbp> a refuge/escape/shelter from the drugery and senselessness of the modern era 01:43:48 <AaronSw> so who died? 01:44:14 <tav> * tav wonders if he lives in the same world as sbp 01:44:16 <AaronSw> if you don't mind 01:44:26 <sbp> Probably not 01:44:29 <AaronSw> me asking 01:44:31 <tav> an old friend of mine 01:44:44 <tav> not too old, late 50s, cancer 01:45:07 <AaronSw> sorry to hear it. 01:45:29 <sbp> * sbp too; always is 01:45:29 <AaronSw> well, suicide is always an option. but generally i just carry a towel around with me for a day... 01:45:56 <sbp> Hmm... hadn't thought of that 01:46:09 <sbp> that's what I'm missing! a towel 01:46:09 <tav> argh 01:46:13 <AaronSw> That's the last major death I can think of... 01:47:39 <hazmat> AaronSw: is that managing gigabytes book a good read? 01:47:46 <tav> now playing DJ Krust & Saul Williams - 01:48:00 <AaronSw> hazmat, dunno. haven't gotten very far 01:48:04 <tav> hmz, have you heard from oierw? 01:48:13 <AaronSw> no, have you heard from his parents? 01:48:42 <tav> http://www.heavensfantasy.com/cool/ 01:48:50 <sbp> You should go down the road and visit him 01:49:24 <AaronSw> i should, but i'd like to coordinate first 01:49:50 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m24-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:50:08 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m24-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:53:36 <sbp> I've had this on my clipboard for a while, I need the space back:- 01:53:37 <sbp> [[[ 01:53:38 <sbp> You're just sucking up the P2P/decentralization/anonymity projects, aren't you? I certainly can't accuse you of not researching your background onformation, or getting the right people on board 01:53:39 <sbp> ]]] 01:53:59 <AaronSw> to tav, i assume? 01:54:04 <AaronSw> i can accuse him of the latter. ;-) 01:54:13 <sbp> no, do you ya dipstick 01:54:20 <sbp> er... "to you" 01:54:23 <AaronSw> ah 01:54:32 <sbp> man, what is it with my typing lately? 01:54:33 <AaronSw> oh, in that case i accuse myself 01:54:40 <AaronSw> doesn't make it true, tho 01:55:19 <sbp> Good writing is often defined as "the right words in the right places". I seem to be putting random words in places random 01:55:27 <AaronSw> heh 02:08:48 <AaronSw> there are a bunch of typos in the math of this chord paper. 02:10:01 <AaronSw> which make it hard to understand 02:10:09 <AaronSw> like -s where they mean +s 02:11:04 <AaronSw> oh, never mind -- that's he sucky font 02:11:08 <AaronSw> wow. 02:11:37 <sbp> that's he? wow? 02:11:58 <AaronSw> the, he, same difference 02:12:13 <AaronSw> it appears to be #swhack typo day 02:12:44 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: It's ypo day on #swhack! 02:13:07 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Hapy ypo day! 02:13:23 <sbp> I prefered mine, but heh 02:13:40 <AaronSw> I was afraid #swhack will confuse our weblog readers 02:13:53 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: It's ypo day! 02:13:56 <sbp> Well, we could typo all of the weblog items too 02:14:04 <AaronSw> Yeah. 02:14:07 <sbp> :-) 02:14:14 <AaronSw> don't we do that already? 02:15:30 <AaronSw> hey, this chord paper is making sense now! 02:17:14 <sbp> really? 02:18:04 <AaronSw> yeah, took long enough 02:56:45 <sbp> What did? 03:06:18 <AaronSw> understanding chord 03:06:32 <AaronSw> "Where do you come from? Where do you go? Sorry, but that is nothing you would need to know." 03:07:18 <sbp> Ooh! 03:07:30 <AaronSw> :-) 03:07:35 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is listening to Love and Theft 03:07:40 <sbp> Hooray! 03:07:46 <tav> AaronSw: did you send xena to #openprojects ? 03:07:54 <AaronSw> probably 03:08:08 <tav> seems there's a no-bot law there and in #linpeople 03:08:15 <AaronSw> hmm 03:08:22 <AaronSw> did it get kicked? 03:08:33 <deltab> banned 03:08:51 <tav> dit it get banned? 03:09:22 <AaronSw> i don't see it in the banned list 03:09:33 <tav> me neither 03:09:47 <tav> well, lilo msg'd me and i told it to leave the chan 03:10:10 <AaronSw> i'm taking it out of the autojoin list 03:10:17 <tav> cheers 03:10:40 <AaronSw> what's the rationale for the no-bot rule? 03:11:32 <tav> -- 03:11:32 <tav> <lilo> it's just a long standing tradition 03:11:33 <tav> <lilo> if we change it for one bot we will probably end up with a raft of them, most less useful 8) 03:11:34 <tav> -- 03:11:45 <deltab> not banned now, but it was 03:12:06 <tav> oh 03:12:13 <tav> by whom and why? 03:12:26 <tav> i can guess the why, but what led to it? 03:12:36 <AaronSw> we can just create a botindisguise to listen in :) 03:13:17 <tav> heh 03:13:19 <deltab> 024643Z <b0rk:#openprojects> trelane ok .say come out in black and .act is like 03:13:19 <deltab> in purple 03:13:19 <deltab> 024740Z <trelane:#openprojects> .act should be action 03:13:19 <deltab> 024740Z <trelane:#openprojects> I dunno 03:13:19 <deltab> 024741Z <trelane:#openprojects> your client must be b0rked :p 03:13:19 <deltab> 024801Z <trelane:#openprojects> -xena- unauthorized: not registered 03:13:21 <deltab> 024805Z <trelane:#openprojects> FUCKING BOT 03:13:23 <deltab> 024806Z <trelane:#openprojects> ban that 03:13:31 <AaronSw> heh heh 03:14:11 <tav> fucking kirch 03:14:36 <AaronSw> which soon devolved into spanking and biting 03:14:55 <tav> i'm actually into a lot of biting during sex 03:15:28 <AaronSw> heh: <trelane/#openprojects> MysticOne: don't look now but they're really insidious clones sent by microsoft to undermine the network 03:15:36 <AaronSw> [re: the large number of people here from mewtwo] 03:15:47 <tav> heh 03:15:59 <tav> where's that from? xena logs? 03:16:04 <AaronSw> yeah 03:16:31 <AaronSw> xena should only respond to "<nick>, " IMO. 03:16:47 <tav> that's been reserved for the AI module 03:16:57 <AaronSw> pflargle 03:17:25 <sbp> heh, you're getting too much like me 03:17:28 <AaronSw> did you know that saying the word AI causes your aaronRank to go way down. 03:17:37 <deltab> have the AI decide what's a command and what isn't 03:17:40 <tav> do i care about my aaronRank ? 03:17:54 <AaronSw> i dunno, why're you asking me? ask the ai module 03:18:45 <tav> that traitor deltab! pointing me out straight away! 03:18:57 <AaronSw> heh heh. 03:19:10 <AaronSw> xena should connect from tidal1.microsoft.com 03:19:20 <AaronSw> or whatever it's called 03:19:24 <AaronSw> then no one will know :) 03:19:40 <deltab> tide 03:20:25 <AaronSw> I figured it was named for "the Internet Tidal Wave" 03:23:16 <AaronSw> blargh, the Chord protocol is Sun RPC? 03:24:22 <sbp> heh! 03:24:51 <sbp> heh, this is good:- 03:24:52 <AaronSw> One thing that's a little weird is this paper cites another Chord paper, but instead of listing the authors it says "Authors elided for anonymity." 03:24:53 <sbp> [[[ 03:24:53 <sbp> How do I protect my sighting of Elvis? 03:24:53 <sbp> Copyright law does not protect sightings. However, copyright law will protect your photo (or other depiction) of your sighting of Elvis. Just send it to us with a form VA application and the $30 filing fee. No one can lawfully use your photo of your sighting, although someone else may file his own photo of his sighting. Copyright law protects the original photograph, not the subject of the photograph. 03:24:58 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.loc.gov/copyright/faq.html 03:25:27 <AaronSw> Elvis: Keeping our government in the green 03:25:35 <tav> heh 03:36:17 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n146-116.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 03:49:23 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m724-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:49:42 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m724-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:20:18 <sbp> Argh, I want to violate WCAG! 04:20:36 <sbp> I've got a design going, but it's really inconsistent 04:21:05 <sbp> the main/home page has a dark background and light text, and all of the others are inverted 04:21:18 <sbp> it's hardly consistent... but is it confusing? 04:21:41 <sbp> Argh, man, that's so annoying 04:24:16 <sbp> Aha 04:24:24 <sbp> I can make them "preferred" stylesheets 04:24:27 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh 04:24:47 <sbp> """To make a style sheet preferred, set the rel attribute to "stylesheet" and name the style sheet with the title attribute.""" - http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/styles 05:29:10 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:43:48 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:22:40 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-014.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 07:21:42 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:27:05 <tav> tav has quit ("Hakuna Matata") 08:30:27 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:32:55 <tav`> tav` has quit (Client Quit) 08:35:28 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-84-90.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:40:22 <tav> tav (~tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:53:42 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n145-010.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:58:13 <tav`> tav` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:20:06 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:34:18 <atariboy> atariboy (~atari@c18396.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #swhack 10:37:30 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:37:30 <atariboy> atariboy has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:37:30 <BenSW> BenSW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:37:30 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:37:30 <hazmat> hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:42:55 <atariboy> atariboy (~atari@c18396.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #swhack 10:42:55 <hazmat> hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 10:42:55 <deus_x> deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 10:42:55 <BenSW> BenSW (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 10:42:55 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 10:42:58 <tav> tav has quit (Excess Flood) 10:45:51 <tav> tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 10:47:40 <tav> AaronSw: bitch! 11:11:39 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:02:30 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:25:31 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:38:40 <AaronSw> what'd i do now, tav? 12:46:52 <AaronSw> Whoa, this is so not fair. HP Labs is building the "hyperplex, a cluster of intelligent computing devices". 12:47:12 <AaronSw> http://www.hpl.hp.com/news/2001/oct-dec/planetary.html 12:49:53 <tav> welcome to my world 12:50:34 <AaronSw> so you just felt like yelling at someone? 12:50:47 <tav> oh, no 12:50:55 <tav> that was to get your attention 12:51:06 <tav> downloaded office x yet? 12:51:11 <tav> i believe you have 12:51:13 <AaronSw> yeah 13:14:39 <AaronSw> @ http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/archive/5140.html 13:14:43 <chumpster> B: Good to know. from AaronSw 13:14:48 <AaronSw> B:|"orangutan popcorn fishwife" 13:14:49 <chumpster> titled item B 13:20:14 <AaronSw> B::via [Mark|http://diveintomark.weblogger.com/2002/01/08], [Fark|http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=95364], [0xdeadbeef|http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/], [/dev/null|http://autonomous.org/dev/null/], [Chris|http://www.dogfish.org/chris/] 13:20:16 <chumpster> commented item B 13:21:25 <AaronSw> B::([Google link|http://www.google.com/search?q=orangutan%20popcorn%20fishwife], for the lazy ones) 13:21:26 <chumpster> commented item B 13:23:11 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:25:47 <AaronSw> B::Ooh, but I can take the lead with [plesh fishwife|http://supportmacslashnow@www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plesh+fishwife] yielding 0 hits. 13:25:49 <chumpster> commented item B 13:26:24 <AaronSw> for the record: 13:26:28 <AaronSw> .google plesh fishwife 13:26:29 <xena> no results found. 13:28:23 <AaronSw> B::Hmm, the words have to be "common" he says. I guess the obsolete [plesh|http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=plesh] doesn't count then. 13:28:24 <chumpster> commented item B 13:30:32 <AaronSw> B::Ok, so how about [tariser hypermedia|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tarsier+hypermedia]? 13:30:33 <chumpster> commented item B 13:30:36 <AaronSw> .google tarsier hypermedia 13:30:38 <xena> no results found. 13:31:58 <AaronSw> * AaronSw emails brooks 13:36:32 <AaronSw> @ http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,49612,00.html 13:37:03 <chumpster> C: 'New' IMac Online Last Year from AaronSw 13:37:45 <AaronSw> C::A [Belgian web designer|http://www.wired.com/news/gallery/0,2072,49612-2765~2764,00.html] claims to have [designed the iLamp|http://www.wired.com/news/gallery/0,2072,49612-2767~2766,00.html] last year. 13:37:46 <chumpster> commented item C 13:38:21 <AaronSw> C::"The design was logical. They made a cube and a tower. I was sure they would make something spherical. I know them too well." 13:38:22 <chumpster> commented item C 13:53:32 <AaronSw> @ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0740721909/ref=ase_coolbooks02/ 13:53:37 <chumpster> D: Amazon.com: buying info: God's Debris: A Thought Experiment from AaronSw 13:53:57 <AaronSw> D:|God's Debris: A Thought Experiment 13:53:58 <chumpster> titled item D 13:55:36 <AaronSw> D::Cory [has found|http://boingboing.net/2002_01_01_archive.html#8515113] a nice quote from it. 13:55:36 <chumpster> commented item D 14:06:03 <AaronSw> @ http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/07/saving_usenet/print.html 14:06:07 <chumpster> E: Salon.com Technology | The geeks who saved Usenet from AaronSw 14:06:20 <AaronSw> E::With a link to [the first post in Google's archive|http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/07/saving_usenet/print.html]. 14:06:21 <chumpster> commented item E 14:06:55 <AaronSw> E::Ooops. Here's [the first post in google's archive|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=anews.Aucbarpa.111]. 14:06:56 <chumpster> commented item E 15:16:04 <ThreaT> ThreaT (bob@s161.dhcp212-172.cybercable.fr) has joined #swhack 15:18:54 <ThreaT> ThreaT has left #swhack 15:52:03 <atariboy> atariboy is now known as atariBed 16:29:48 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m949-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:30:24 <AaronSw> * AaronSw posts to comp.lang.python 16:31:12 <AaronSw> heh, cool graph: http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/ 16:37:16 <sbp> Ooh, they like the word actually: """This graph shows the actual traffic on comp.lang.python, or actually the actual Python mailing list, which in fact has been existing a lot longer than the actual newsgroup actually.""" 16:37:35 <sbp> But yeah, it is a cool graph :-) 16:39:10 <AaronSw> @ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/080836.html 16:39:17 <chumpster> F: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/080836.html from AaronSw 16:39:25 <AaronSw> F:|PEP 214 - Why not print >> string? 16:39:26 <chumpster> titled item F 16:39:45 <AaronSw> F::A request to the Python List for allowing pring >> to work on strings. 16:39:46 <chumpster> commented item F 16:43:03 <sbp> F::cf. [http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0214.html|PEP214], which is an excellent idea to extend the Python print statement to print to any object with a write() method. Roll on Python 2.3 16:43:04 <chumpster> commented item F 16:43:35 <AaronSw> Umm, it's already implemented. 16:44:39 <sbp> oh 16:44:43 <sbp> kick-ass! 16:44:44 <AaronSw> F::It [was implemented|http://www.amk.ca/python/2.0/index.html#SECTION0001010000000000000000] in 2.0. 16:44:45 <chumpster> commented item F 16:45:27 <AaronSw> F::I'm really eager for [PEP 215|http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0215.html] which allows the $varname syntax from Perl and Tcl to be used in Python. 16:45:28 <chumpster> commented item F 16:45:38 <sbp> F::[Sound of me re-reading the Python manuals] 16:45:39 <chumpster> commented item F 16:45:51 <sbp> ugh, why would you want 215? 16:46:13 <AaronSw> Because i'm sick of ' + foo + '? 16:46:37 <AaronSw> and i can't stand % blargitty. 16:46:52 <sbp> Hmm... fair enough 16:47:22 <AaronSw> I guess the problem wouldn't be so serious if the print >> string thing was introduced. 16:47:25 <AaronSw> Still print $'References to $a: $sys.getrefcount(a)' is nice. 16:49:28 <AaronSw> Heh! Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista 16:49:56 <AaronSw> - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/7111 16:55:43 <AaronSw> Heh, here's a bad URL: https://domain.com?email=aswartz@upclink.com 16:55:52 <AaronSw> Doesn't do what they expected, I'm sure. :) 16:56:11 <sbp> it doesn't do anything 16:56:15 <AaronSw> sure it does. 16:56:26 <AaronSw> it goes to upclink.com. 16:56:36 <sbp> no it doesn't 16:56:42 <AaronSw> well, it does on my browser 16:57:24 <deltab> yep, upclink.com with username domain.com?email=aswartz 16:57:46 <AaronSw> yep 16:57:52 <sbp> ah 16:58:05 <sbp> my browser adds the / back in, I guess 16:58:33 <sbp> aren'y you meant to quote the "?"? 16:58:49 <AaronSw> .py import urlparse 16:59:01 <AaronSw> .py urlparse.urlparse('https://domain.com?email=aswartz@upclink.com') 16:59:02 <xena> ('https', 'domain.com?email=aswartz@upclink.com', '', '', '', '') 16:59:09 <AaronSw> weird. 16:59:16 <AaronSw> Oh... I guess that makes sense. 17:01:52 <sbp> I get UPC Link when I do https://domain.com%3Femail=aswartz@upclink.com/ 17:02:34 <atariBed> atariBed is now known as atariboy 17:02:44 <AaronSw> morning atariboy 17:03:12 <atariboy> hi 17:03:19 <sbp> just as I suspected: your URI is illegal:- 17:03:19 <sbp> [[[ 17:03:20 <sbp> userinfo = *( unreserved | escaped | 17:03:20 <sbp> ";" | ":" | "&" | "=" | "+" | "$" | "," ) 17:03:20 <sbp> [...] 17:03:20 <sbp> unreserved = alphanum | mark 17:03:22 <sbp> mark = "-" | "_" | "." | "!" | "~" | "*" | "'" | 17:03:24 <sbp> "(" | ")" 17:03:26 <sbp> ]]] 17:04:31 <sbp> - RFC 3296 17:04:34 <sbp> or 17:04:38 <sbp> - RFC 2396 17:04:41 <sbp> take your pick 17:04:45 <AaronSw> OK. 17:07:31 <AaronSw> RFC 3296: HTTP Remote Variant Selection Algorithm NG -- RVSA/2.0 17:07:36 <sbp> * sbp updates browser.py - had a bug parsing user names 17:09:44 <AaronSw> when are you going to put it on the web? 17:10:44 <AaronSw> Ooh, I like your new mysterylights.com design. (Not yet uploaded to mysterylights.com.) 17:13:23 <AaronSw> Dell is so slow. 17:16:21 <AaronSw> Cool, Radio supports OS X services. http://radio.userland.com/macOsX#servicesMenu 17:18:35 <sbp> "I like your new mysterylights.com design": thanks! 17:18:47 <sbp> the problem is, note that all of the rest of the pages don't seem to go 17:19:56 <sbp> Hmm... Ron Daniel's post is a bit odd. Wonder if he's read the MT? 17:23:14 <AaronSw> Where's this message from Ron? 17:23:40 <AaronSw> Ah, in www-rdf-interest. 17:23:45 <sbp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0097 17:24:01 <AaronSw> Heh, that's sort of funny. 17:24:26 <AaronSw> If I were a simple junk mail filter I'd filter on XXX! not xxx. 17:24:41 <sbp> heh, heh 17:25:05 <sbp> * sbp tracks down a wizard to turn Aaron into a simple junk mail filter 17:25:28 <sbp> Ah, conjecture 17:26:01 <AaronSw> "A notebook computer, by one estimate, may contain up to 5,000 patented inventions." - http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/10/technology/10PATE.html 17:33:54 <sbp> Hmm... what was the reasoning against "from blargh import *" again? 17:35:35 <sbp> heh: http://www.theonion.com/onion3631/christian_right_lobbies.html 17:35:51 <sbp> (from #infoanarchy) 17:39:26 <AaronSw> from whatever import * is bad because it allows the author of the whatever module to create arbitrary variables in your program. 17:39:44 <AaronSw> especially if you have multiple import *s or put the import * after normal imports, it'll overwrite stuff. 17:40:20 <sbp> * sbp is reconvinced 17:40:44 <sbp> My fundamental beliefs need propping up from time to time 17:41:18 <AaronSw> Ok, so why is RDF good, again? 17:41:22 <AaronSw> I've forgotten. 17:41:27 <sbp> sbp's Core Beliefs, ISBN 092345801239 is in the shop today. Foreward by A. Swartz and Lao Tzu 17:41:51 <sbp> Why is RDF good? Um... Because databases can be good, and Webized things can be good 17:42:09 <sbp> Ah, because it helps with 'Plex, that's why 17:42:21 <AaronSw> Heh, heh. 17:42:36 <sbp> Heh, I'd love to see you write a foreward with Lao Tzu for a book of my core beliefs 17:42:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw runs out and buys a copy. 17:43:17 <AaronSw> * AaronSw compares prices at http://isbn.nu/092345801239 17:43:54 <sbp> Heh, heh 17:44:36 <sbp> *sigh* if I'm going to continue to develop browser.py, then I need to factor out bits. But I don't really want to 17:44:42 <AaronSw> you could have at least chosen one with a valid uri. 17:44:47 <sbp> develop it, or factor bits out :-) 17:44:52 <sbp> yeah, sorry 17:44:58 <AaronSw> err, valid isbn. 17:45:04 <AaronSw> err, valid length isbn 17:45:07 <AaronSw> what does browser.py do but parse HTML? 17:45:11 <AaronSw> and display it 17:45:18 <AaronSw> Why don't you put it up on the web? 17:45:19 <sbp> try: isbn:1567310036 17:46:11 <AaronSw> ah. that's better: i like how it's called "Self Esteem". 17:46:17 <AaronSw> only $1.99 from half.com 17:46:26 <sbp> It can HEAD pages, get files through FTP (including using auth), er... and retrieve pages as plain text, forcably. Oh, and render HTML 17:46:35 <sbp> $1.99? Not bad 17:46:47 <AaronSw> just put it up on the web already 17:47:01 <AaronSw> (browser.py, that is) 17:47:16 <sbp> Make me 17:47:33 <AaronSw> * AaronSw orders more plane tickets... 17:47:33 <sbp> The HTML Parser is really crap, though! It's a shameful piece of coding 17:47:52 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves from airport lounge 17:47:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves from hotel 17:48:05 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves from sbp's house 17:48:08 <AaronSw> * AaronSw strangles sbp 17:48:08 <sbp> wow, you move fast 17:48:18 <sbp> heh, Aaron's gone nuts 17:48:28 <AaronSw> You know me -- can't wait for a good thing. 17:48:35 <AaronSw> OK, now will you put it up? 17:48:36 <sbp> pardon? 17:48:48 <AaronSw> browser.py 17:48:54 <sbp> lol @ a good thing. You have Lynx installed, right? 17:49:08 <AaronSw> Oh, I meant strangling you. 17:49:12 <AaronSw> Not browser.py. 17:49:19 <sbp> Heh, fair enough 17:49:22 <AaronSw> :-) 17:49:30 <AaronSw> Now put it up. :) 17:49:54 <sbp> Aw... 17:49:59 <AaronSw> .http://m949-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com/browser.py 17:50:02 <xena> Server ErrorHTTP/1.1 500 Server Error 17:51:51 <sbp> O.K., I've put it on the Web 17:52:01 <sbp> Happy now? 17:52:18 <AaronSw> No, now you have to tell me the URL. 17:52:33 <AaronSw> ne'er mind 17:52:37 <AaronSw> @ http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py/ 17:52:40 <chumpster> G: http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py/ from AaronSw 17:52:45 <sbp> heh, heh 17:52:57 <sbp> please, use the canonical http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py 17:53:03 <sbp> well, too late now 17:53:06 <AaronSw> I tried, but it redirected me. 17:53:16 <AaronSw> what's its problem? 17:53:19 <sbp> yes, temporary redirect 17:53:25 <AaronSw> Hmm 17:53:36 <sbp> don't treat temp. redirects as permanent :-) 17:53:53 <AaronSw> i didn't have browser.py, so how would i have known? 17:53:57 <sbp> So anyway, there it is in all its glory 17:54:05 <sbp> G:|browser.py 17:54:07 <chumpster> titled item G 17:54:55 <AaronSw> man, I hate that URI syntax. 17:55:02 <sbp> G::A rather small Web browser written in [http://www.python.org/|Python]. python browser.py URI 17:55:03 <chumpster> commented item G 17:55:07 <sbp> what URI syntax? 17:55:13 <AaronSw> the one browser.py uses. 17:55:36 <sbp> G::It can HEAD pages (-head), get as text/plain (-text), and render HTML 17:55:37 <chumpster> commented item G 17:55:40 <sbp> pardon? 17:55:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw does an `alias txt='python browser.py'` 17:55:54 <AaronSw> <</ads/> Advertise with Us> and stuff 17:56:09 <sbp> Oh. I quite like that 17:56:17 <sbp> but feel free to change it 17:56:33 <sbp> it should all be configurable, blah, blah 17:57:28 <AaronSw> what does -meta do? 17:57:34 <sbp> G::isn't the HTML parser just a bundle of joy? 17:57:39 <chumpster> commented item G 17:57:53 <sbp> -meta: er... it's going to get all of the metainformation about a URI that it possibly can 17:58:03 <AaronSw> it doesn't seem to do anything 17:58:05 <sbp> not yet implemented 17:58:09 <AaronSw> ah 17:58:56 <AaronSw> I wish Python had better input mechanisms 17:59:19 <sbp> Such as? 17:59:35 <AaronSw> deltab, you might know this -- is there someway to timeout a user prompt in python? 18:00:13 <AaronSw> like: Foosnatz has a blargle. Continue? [y/n] (timeout in 3 secs.)> 18:00:25 <deltab> get input in a way that lets you specify a timeout :-) 18:00:40 <AaronSw> yeah, but do you have any idea what that way is? 18:01:00 <AaronSw> sbp, -head should give the the full headers. 18:01:03 <deltab> select() loop 18:01:19 <deltab> what sort of input? 18:01:31 <AaronSw> input from the terminal 18:01:40 <deltab> lines? 18:01:51 <AaronSw> huh? 18:01:56 <AaronSw> like raw_input 18:01:58 <deltab> maybe readline can do it 18:02:14 <sbp> what's up with http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ ? 18:02:41 <AaronSw> readline just seemed to provide stuff for raw_input. 18:02:42 <sbp> it should give you the full headers! 18:03:18 <AaronSw> why would http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ give me the full headers? 18:03:38 <AaronSw> -- 18:03:39 <AaronSw> $ headers google.com 18:03:39 <AaronSw> HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily 18:03:40 <AaronSw> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:02:15 GMT 18:03:40 <AaronSw> Server: GWS/1.11 18:03:40 <AaronSw> Location: http://www.google.com/ 18:03:41 <AaronSw> Cache-Control: No-Cache 18:03:43 <AaronSw> Content-Length: 158 18:03:45 <AaronSw> Content-Type: text/html 18:03:47 <AaronSw> <blankline> 18:03:49 <AaronSw> -- 18:04:05 <AaronSw> $ txt http://google.com/ -head 18:04:06 <AaronSw> Getting http://google.com/... 18:04:06 <AaronSw> Code was 302 (http://www.google.com/), continue? [Y/N]: n 18:04:06 <AaronSw> Got it: text/html 18:04:06 <AaronSw> 302 Moved Temporarily 18:04:19 <AaronSw> <blankline> 18:04:19 <AaronSw> <blankline> 18:04:19 <AaronSw> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:01:59 GMT 18:04:20 <AaronSw> Server: GWS/1.11 18:04:20 <AaronSw> Connection: close 18:04:20 <AaronSw> Location: http://www.google.com/ 18:04:22 <AaronSw> Cache-Control: No-Cache 18:04:24 <AaronSw> Content-Length: 158 18:04:26 <AaronSw> Content-Type: text/html 18:04:28 <AaronSw> <blankline> 18:04:30 <AaronSw> -- 18:05:01 <sbp> yeah? what's wrong with that? 18:05:13 <AaronSw> i want the response line 18:05:21 <AaronSw> i.e. HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily 18:05:43 <sbp> oh, you want the body of the response too? 18:06:07 <sbp> it wouldn't be much of a HEAD request if it gave you the repr. too :-) 18:06:19 <sbp> Of course it's not even a HEAD request... but we ignore that for now 18:06:29 <AaronSw> i don't want the body. 18:06:41 <AaronSw> i just want the response line... the first line you get back from a HEAD. 18:06:49 <sbp> Ah 18:08:20 <sbp> Use Lynx :-) 18:08:33 <AaronSw> I use cURL. 18:08:37 <AaronSw> Ooh, my proposal got a -1. 18:09:37 <sbp> G::If you have a feature request, feel free to mail me (if you know my email address), the the response will invariably be: use cURL 18:09:39 <chumpster> commented item G 18:09:50 <AaronSw> Heh heh. 18:09:50 <sbp> G::s/the the/but the/ 18:09:52 <chumpster> commented item G 18:10:18 <AaronSw> LOL. A response to my proposal: 'I think it would be an utter disaster, and in that sense quite compatible indeed with "print >>".' 18:10:21 <sbp> well, it *is* ypo day, after all 18:10:28 <sbp> heh! 18:10:32 <sbp> URI? 18:10:58 <AaronSw> mid:a1kg60$4bo$1@serv1.iunet.it 18:11:31 <AaronSw> Steve: "Why not Perl? ;-)" 18:11:32 <sbp> HTTP URI? 18:11:40 <AaronSw> i dunno. it's on comp.lang.python 18:11:43 <AaronSw> ask google groups 18:12:12 <sbp> F::They cry: Stop Perling Python! 18:12:13 <chumpster> commented item F 18:14:11 <sbp> ah: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/8074 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/8079 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/8081 18:14:36 <AaronSw> I think I'll go with: 18:14:38 <AaronSw> > Why not Perl? ;-) 18:14:38 <AaronSw> Zing! 18:16:08 <sbp> Good response 18:17:24 <AaronSw> I get the feeling I'm getting all the folks who don't like print being a statement out of the woodwork. 18:17:49 <sbp> yeah 18:18:12 <sbp> pretty fundamental statement, though 18:18:31 <sbp> Hmm... what languages require you to have it as a function? 18:18:33 <AaronSw> * AaronSw responds to his detractors 18:18:34 <sbp> Oh, right 18:18:35 <sbp> Java 18:18:41 <AaronSw> Heh, heh, heh 18:18:49 <AaronSw> I'll threaten people to use Java. 18:18:52 <sbp> Heh! 18:18:58 <sbp> Wow, don't get too nasty 18:21:28 <AaronSw> Heh. 18:22:59 <AaronSw> Wow, Zooko sure looks different after two years. http://www.mccullagh.org/image/rsa00/zooko.html Must be the beard. 18:26:25 <AaronSw> Hmm, do you notice how Zooko always says "Thank you for X, it's a wonderful tool" when he's asking for help? 18:26:47 <deltab> X, wonderful? I think not 18:27:03 <AaronSw> heh. :) X being a variable. 18:27:09 <AaronSw> as in: all your X are belong to Y. 18:27:16 <deltab> yeah, I knew :-) 18:27:34 <AaronSw> <deltab> but Y doesn't own the copyright to X, the Open Group does. 18:28:04 <deltab> hmm? 18:28:18 <AaronSw> cf. http://www.x.org/about.htm 18:28:29 <AaronSw> (I just guessed.) 18:29:01 <AaronSw> deltab, what do you think of my >> string suggestion? 18:29:08 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m421-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 18:29:27 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m421-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:29:33 <deltab> what's wrong with StringIO? 18:30:17 <AaronSw> from StringIO import StringIO 18:30:17 <AaronSw> x = StringIO() 18:30:17 <AaronSw> function(foo, x) 18:30:17 <AaronSw> x.seek(0) 18:30:17 <AaronSw> x = x.read() 18:30:18 <AaronSw> is a bit verbose 18:30:18 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:30:19 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:30:26 <AaronSw> aaargh 18:30:47 <AaronSw> i thought i fixed that 18:31:30 <AaronSw> .rehash 18:31:36 <AaronSw> x is now ok 18:31:36 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:31:44 <AaronSw> huh? 18:31:55 <AaronSw> .rehash 18:31:58 <AaronSw> x is now ok 18:31:59 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:32:01 <AaronSw> odd 18:34:50 <deltab> 'x' is short for '.x' 18:35:02 <AaronSw> .x 18:35:06 <AaronSw> .x is now ok 18:35:10 <AaronSw> x is now ok 18:35:10 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:35:15 <AaronSw> doesn't seem like it 18:35:18 <AaronSw> x is short for ,py 18:35:19 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:35:19 <deltab> or .py, or whatever it is 18:35:19 <AaronSw> err .py 18:35:50 <deltab> you don't know about StringIO().getvalue()? 18:36:07 <deltab> also 18:36:08 <deltab> >>> def p(*seq): return " ".join(map(str, seq)) 18:36:25 <AaronSw> no, i didn't know about getvalue 18:37:09 <AaronSw> One fellow suggested a UserDict with write, which seems reasonable. (I originally dismissed it because I wanted to use '', but if i can append strings to it. 18:37:13 <AaronSw> .. 18:37:27 <deltab> dict? why? 18:37:35 <AaronSw> err UserString, sorry 18:37:43 <deltab> ah 18:37:50 <deltab> in 2.2 you can subclass str 18:37:52 <deltab> :-) 18:37:59 <AaronSw> yeah, that too 18:38:11 <AaronSw> but i can't make 'foo' generate my subclass, can I? 18:41:14 <AaronSw> Wow, there's a syndic8 store now 18:45:24 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We've been experiencing some clone kiddie problems, including private CTCP floods. Suggest you turn on user modes +CE to avoid these attacks. +C prevents you from receiving private CTCP messages or responding to CTCP and +E prevents you from receiving messages from users not currently identified to nickserv. Thanks. 18:47:05 <lilo> [Global Notice] Please note: not modes +ce, but +CE . The capitalization is signficiant. For more information, check on #openprojects. Thanks. 18:54:45 <AaronSw> I wonder why X=X is considered harmful. 18:54:57 <deltab> ? 18:55:07 <deltab> when? 18:55:20 <AaronSw> according to http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=directed+oc 18:56:36 <hazmat> from cStringIO import StringIO 18:57:28 <AaronSw> Hmm, I wonder if OPN logs private messages. 18:57:48 <lilo> [Global Notice] Please seriously consider turning off private CTCP if you're on a major public channel by setting mode C. On most clients, +C is set via one of the following: "/umode +C" or "/mode <yournick> +C" or "/quote mode <yournick> +C" or "/raw mode +C <yournick>". Thanks. 18:58:20 <AaronSw> Why does it matter what channel I'm on? 19:01:46 <lilo> [Global Notice] If you're on irssi and want to set +C to avoid private CTCP attacks, please set "/set lag_check_time 0" as well to avoid ping-out. Thanks. 19:03:59 <lilo> [Global Notice] Two final notes....if you don't mind restricting your client so that it only receives private messages/notices from users identified to NickServ, this may be another very good protection to have. To do so, set +E as well as +C (+CE). And finally, we'll save further comments for WALLOPS. You can see wallops by turning on user mode +w. Thanks. 19:58:45 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:00:50 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m115-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:12:25 <em-mit> em-mit (~em@24-6-152.wireless.lcs.mit.edu) has joined #swhack 20:12:38 <em-mit> * em-mit looks for AaronSw and sbp 20:12:43 <AaronSw> hello 20:12:45 <em-mit> * em-mit waves to AaronSw and sbp 20:12:54 <AaronSw> hello 20:13:18 <em-mit> * em-mit wonders if they would mind talking about primer 20:14:51 <AaronSw> sure. 20:14:53 <AaronSw> * AaronSw pokes sbp 20:15:28 <em-mit> err... its on the agenda for tomorrows call, i'm hoping either one of you has been able to spend more time on it than i have 20:16:12 <em-mit> i was looking for an update from yor guys on your writing assignments 20:17:06 <AaronSw> we had writing assignments? 20:17:20 <sbp> Hooray! I found it 20:17:26 <em-mit> * em-mit looks for the to-do list that AaronSw wrote 20:19:39 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m4-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:19:46 <em-mit> * em-mit returns and finds http://www.w3.org/2001/09/rdfprimer/todo 20:19:56 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m4-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:20:01 <AaronSw> Oh, that. ;-) 20:20:22 <AaronSw> I've been working on designing the system, but haven't done any writing yet. 20:20:23 <em-mit> err.... yes! 20:20:34 <em-mit> designing the system? 20:21:01 <em-mit> are you thinking about supporting code for this?!? we just need explanation at this time! 20:21:14 <em-mit> we are dangerously behind on this deliverable 20:21:16 <AaronSw> no, i meant stuff like the schema for this metadata. 20:21:44 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m294-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 20:22:03 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m294-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:22:08 <em-mit> err.. seems like sbp is having problems?! 20:22:25 <sbp> sorry, bad connection 20:22:39 <em-mit> AaronSw, is your status on the primer then 'no update' ? 20:22:53 <em-mit> sbp, any luck on your end? 20:23:29 <sbp> I think I wrote a schema for it, somewhere 20:24:40 <sbp> * sbp searches 20:24:40 <AaronSw> sorry -- gotta run to dentist 20:25:15 <AaronSw> c'ya 20:27:03 <em-mit> take care; when you get back (and the novacain wears off :) pls send me an update 20:50:55 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m160-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:51:23 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m160-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:30:05 <powretopwrejhgopjwrsopg> powretopwrejhgopjwrsopg (~sean@m328-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:30:11 <powretopwrejhgopjwrsopg> powretopwrejhgopjwrsopg has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:30:13 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:30:37 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m328-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:30:38 <sbp> sbp has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:30:52 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m328-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:39:20 <sbp> lol! 21:39:24 <sbp> Aaron, are you there? 21:39:49 <sbp> """Blogspace is confusing me. I can't figure out what it is. [...] posted by Jason Nolan 8:17 AM""" - http://www.edublog.com/blogger.php 21:42:04 <sbp> You might want to explain the... um... tremendous complexities of blogspace 21:44:33 <sbp> Heh, that's quite funny 21:51:42 <sbp> ooh, zooko.com:- 21:51:43 <sbp> socket.error: (116, 'Attempt to connect timed out without establishing a connection') 21:51:57 <sbp> http://www.netcat.co.uk/rob/perl/win32perltut.html 21:55:11 <sbp> Gotta run 22:18:22 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:34:17 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m86-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:34:48 <em-mit> * em-mit leaves his laptop unattended; is temporarily danbri 22:34:57 <em-mit> hi guys :) 22:35:21 <sbp> Heh, heh. Hi 22:38:52 <ThreaT> ThreaT (bob@s161.dhcp212-172.cybercable.fr) has joined #swhack 22:39:00 <ThreaT> ThreaT has left #swhack 22:41:24 <sbp> * sbp listens to some Oasis 22:42:39 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-154.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:00:42 <em-mit> em-mit has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:06:30 <hazmat> cool, i just got lucene to index comp.lang.python. �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-11.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000046263�07417676170�011707� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:07:16 <AaronSw> cool 00:07:43 <AaronSw> sbp reading perl docs?! 00:09:08 <AaronSw> * AaronSw does the cool walk 00:09:30 <AaronSw> I read the new "True Names" in the car -- great book. 00:09:38 <AaronSw> It's got a really nice piece by T.C. May in it. 00:09:54 <AaronSw> Reminds me to todo.append('implement crypto anarchy') 00:11:21 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wonders why that Blogspace thing is so confusing. 00:11:28 <AaronSw> The guy already edits his site over the Web 00:13:11 <sbp> Yes! I was indeed reading Perl docs., but I'm feeling better now, thanks 00:15:02 <sbp> Perl's cool for one-liners... but Python has the edge for anything else :-) 00:15:03 <AaronSw> Interesting: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-8399481.html 00:31:05 <AaronSw> Hmm, Segway.com sent out a really confusing message. 00:31:30 <AaronSw> It comes from acrosllc.com and is labeled "Oracle Workflow Management", and welcomes me to the Store. 00:32:26 <AaronSw> Oh, good, they apologized. 00:33:42 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m90-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 00:34:01 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m90-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:35:26 <AaronSw> dinner. c'ya 00:35:55 <sbp> c'ya 01:14:02 <AaronSw> ooh, cool. the Chord folks responded 01:15:38 <sbp> public? private? in what capacity? 01:15:49 <sbp> what to? who to? 01:16:10 <AaronSw> * AaronSw was just arguing that eminent domain is a stupid idea. 01:16:23 <AaronSw> I guess I'm drifting right. 01:16:51 <sbp> you've a long way to go yet :-) 01:17:09 <AaronSw> maybe i'll vote libertarian 01:17:40 <AaronSw> private, in response to my comment that i was implementing it. 01:17:45 <sbp> Michael told you to 01:17:51 <AaronSw> heh, he did 01:18:18 <AaronSw> wow, cool. henry minsky iss using blogifyYourPage. 01:18:45 <sbp> Heh. I wonder one no one uses any of my crap 01:19:03 <AaronSw> I'm sure tons of people do. 01:19:23 <sbp> yeah, they're all sitting down browsing the Web on their brand new browser.py setups 01:19:40 <AaronSw> I've gotten 10,000 click-thrus on that already today! 01:19:53 <sbp> on blogify? wow 01:20:01 <AaronSw> No, on browser.py. 01:20:17 <sbp> Oh, that was just me testing it. Sorry 01:20:23 <AaronSw> Hmm, I guess HQM is back in MA. 01:24:41 <AaronSw> Wow, the AI Lab redesigns their website: http://www.ai.mit.edu/ 01:25:17 <AaronSw> The future of AI: Using graphics to communicate text. 01:25:42 <AaronSw> i can't believe they implemented hover with fricking rollovers. 01:26:08 <AaronSw> And then they use an unlinked "Valid HTML" thing. Sheesh. 01:26:29 <AaronSw> of course it's not actually valid. 01:29:59 <AaronSw> * AaronSw emails them, ccs www-archive. 01:33:16 <AaronSw> @ http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=498 01:33:23 <chumpster> A: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=498 from AaronSw 01:33:27 <AaronSw> A:|Simply GNUstep Delivers UNIX, Simply 01:33:28 <chumpster> titled item A 01:33:49 <AaronSw> A::The first steps toward Mac OS X for x86s. 01:33:50 <chumpster> commented item A 01:34:03 <AaronSw> Hmm, what was the topic I was saving... 01:34:41 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m1012-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:35:00 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m1012-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:39:43 <AaronSw> A::via [wmf|http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6856], [/.|http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/10/187238&mode=thread] 01:39:45 <chumpster> commented item A 01:54:32 <sbp> Heh, TimBL has started triple quoting his replies 02:05:17 <sbp> argh, FreeSearch http://www.google.com/services/free.html isn't working 02:05:34 <sbp> it keeps telling me that it can't find any pages on my domain, even though there are clearly plenty indexed 02:21:57 <sbp> @ http://www.msnbc.com/news/684761.asp?0dm=T19OT 02:22:09 <chumpster> B: http://www.msnbc.com/news/684761.asp?0dm=T19OT from sbp 02:22:22 <sbp> B:|Virus writers get head start on .NET 02:22:23 <chumpster> titled item B 02:23:37 <sbp> B::According to the article, the virus will "most certainly not impact any consumers since .NET is not yet publicly available." 02:23:38 <chumpster> commented item B 02:24:30 <sbp> wow, Aaron, they replied to you already 02:24:39 <AaronSw> Yeah, they did. 02:24:45 <AaronSw> Must be an AI. 02:24:52 <sbp> Heh, heh 02:34:15 <sbp> * sbp uploads the new mysterylights.com 03:03:47 <AaronSw> Cool, Skip Montanaro i my idea 03:03:56 <AaronSw> err seems to grok my idea on python-list. 03:20:33 <AaronSw> Heh, Skip: "I started writing Python code to handle all the friggin' HTTP_USER_AGENT formats available -- what a mess! (HTTP_USER_AGENT, not Python)" 03:20:46 <AaronSw> - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-talk/1995JanFeb/0000.html 03:34:23 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m51-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:34:41 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m51-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:35:15 <sbp> ooh: http://www.lfw.org/python/Itpl.py 03:35:20 <AaronSw> yeah 03:36:00 <AaronSw> i thought you hated that idea, tho 03:37:26 <sbp> I've come around to it 03:37:32 <AaronSw> Cool. 03:40:10 <sbp> I'd like the recursion depth limit to be raised 03:40:43 <AaronSw> go stackless dude! 03:41:11 <AaronSw> i was reading http://www.stackless.com/ today and now i'm all about the stackless. 03:41:24 <AaronSw> do that stackless: dooooooooooooooooooooo 03:41:57 <sbp> Oh man, what have you found now... 03:43:54 <sbp> ooh:- 03:43:55 <sbp> [[[ 03:43:55 <sbp> Unlimited recursion 03:43:55 <sbp> 100% binary compatible to Standard Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0 03:43:55 <sbp> 8-10% faster executable on Win32 03:43:56 <sbp> ]]] 03:45:03 <sbp> But only 2.0? 03:45:19 <sbp> They should get the Proper Python to go stackless 03:45:28 <AaronSw> Yeah, they hope to. 03:45:35 <AaronSw> He's on 2.1 now. 03:45:43 <deltab> CPython, it's called 03:46:03 <AaronSw> CPython, Jython (formerly JPython) and Stackless Python, right? 03:46:04 <sbp> .google CPython 03:46:05 <xena> CPython: http://www.jython.org/docs/differences.html 03:46:20 <AaronSw> He submitted a PEP, as i recall 03:46:26 <deltab> right, plus a few other iirc 03:46:36 <AaronSw> there are more?! 03:46:42 <sbp> ah: http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0219.html 03:46:57 <AaronSw> it's under consideration for 2.3 03:47:15 <AaronSw> Well, they did implement generators, so there's some hope. 03:50:48 <AaronSw> Heh, he thanks Guido for "still not sending the Spanish Inquisition..." 03:57:30 <AaronSw> lol: http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0666.html 03:57:34 <AaronSw> notice the number of the pep 03:58:27 <AaronSw> "People who mix tabs and spaces, naturally, will find that their 03:58:27 <AaronSw> programs do not run. Alas, we haven't found a way to give them an 03:58:27 <AaronSw> electric shock as from a cattle prod remotely. (Though if somebody 03:58:27 <AaronSw> finds out a way to do this, I will be pleased to add this option to 03:58:27 <AaronSw> the PEP.)" 04:01:57 <sbp> Gotta run 04:21:59 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:47:10 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:54:47 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-154.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:39:27 <AaronSw> BLURB:I am not Aaron Carter! 05:39:32 <chumpster> C: I am not Aaron Carter! from AaronSw 05:40:00 <AaronSw> C::I'm getting emails from female [Aaron Carter|http://www.aaron-carter.com/] fans. Ah, the perils of Google... 05:40:02 <chumpster> commented item C 05:42:07 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:10:42 <AaronSw> Heh, heh. David Pogue: "Hey, kids, have you heard? It's new, from the makers of SimCity. It's the crazy business-simulation game that's got everyone talking: SimApple!" 06:53:37 <atariboy> lol 07:41:45 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:46:52 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:47:24 <tansaku2> * tansaku2 looks around for AaronSw 09:00:04 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:00:11 <tansaku2> tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 09:49:23 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:06:11 <hazmat> split 10:15:20 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:13:39 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:47:55 <AaronSw> howdy 14:55:18 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Home of the evil hacker underground. 14:55:23 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Home of the evil hacker underground. NOT! 15:27:41 <cIRCuser> cIRCuser (~root@212.34.223.200) has joined #swhack 15:28:10 <cIRCuser> hi folks 15:29:43 <cIRCuser> hi all 15:29:58 <AaronSw> IRCing as root? 15:30:04 <cIRCuser> where are yo ??? 15:30:23 <AaronSw> why's it matter? 15:30:42 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Home of the nonexistant global RDF conspiracy 15:31:00 <cIRCuser> cause im mad 15:31:21 <cIRCuser> whats RDF 15:31:32 <AaronSw> .google rdf 15:31:34 <xena> rdf: http://www.w3.org/RDF 15:32:18 <cIRCuser> few word but i _stand 15:37:52 <cIRCuser> can yo make somthin with my login as root 15:40:10 <AaronSw> well, if someone hacks your client they got root on your box 15:48:24 <cIRCuser> someone know about PIM (ip 103) ??? 15:50:22 <cIRCuser> cIRCuser has quit ("cIRCus 0.43 - http://www.nijenrode.nl/~ivo/circus/") 16:37:44 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m375-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:38:07 <AaronSw> howdy 16:38:35 <sbp> Hi there 16:39:11 <tav> tav has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:41:54 <sbp> ugh: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/3296 16:42:00 <sbp> someone stole the iLamp 16:42:02 <tav> tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:42:25 <AaronSw> heh 16:42:36 <AaronSw> more faithful readers? 16:43:57 <sbp> Heh, heh. Perhaps 16:44:00 <sbp> [[[ 16:44:00 <sbp> No need. It is just obvious that there would be fewer lines/productions in 16:44:01 <sbp> the grammar using only qualified attributes. I think this is hugely 16:44:01 <sbp> irrelevant. The Python grammar is vastly more complex than the grammar for C, 16:44:01 <sbp> but guess which language most users tend to prefer actually *using*? 16:44:03 <sbp> ]]] - Uche 16:44:44 <sbp> mid:200201110427.g0B4RBP09350@localhost.localdomain (usrtc-pool-194.prolynx.com) 16:57:57 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m566-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 16:58:11 <AaronSw> hmm 16:58:14 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m566-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:59:56 <AaronSw> PFPS: "By the ``people that matter'', I don't mean just Pat and myself, I mean anyone who wants to implement or work with the formalism." 17:00:06 <AaronSw> I know who that would be! (Pat and himself?) ;-) 17:00:34 <sbp> lol 17:01:43 <AaronSw> I don't see how a contradiction allows you to conclude it's snowing. 17:03:49 <AaronSw> i guess it's based on the first part is false principle 17:04:18 <sbp> depends upon the contradiction 17:04:53 <sbp> if I say that it is not snowing, and you say "well look out the window, it clearly is" and you are proven right, then that allows any observer to conclude that it is snowing 17:05:11 <AaronSw> yeah, but we're talking paradoxes here. 17:05:44 <sbp> Ah. They're just unresolvable contradictions 17:06:04 <AaronSw> sandro is arguing parasoxes are ok 17:11:09 <AaronSw> i'm worried that the TM/RDF thing is going to be unresolvable: each group will want to eat the other 17:11:29 <sbp> like a snake? 17:11:52 <sbp> oh, is that where Python comes in? 17:11:58 <AaronSw> ooh, maybe. 17:23:09 <sbp> heh: http://tane.cream.org/files/crashxp.cpp 17:24:33 <AaronSw> lol 17:25:33 <AaronSw> i wonder if the python version would work too 17:25:53 <AaronSw> What do you think of SA's new book? 17:26:00 <AaronSw> SA = Scott Adams 17:29:31 <sbp> heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20021828040103.gif 17:29:38 <sbp> which one? He's bought out another one? 17:29:56 <AaronSw> this one is a bout theology 17:29:59 <AaronSw> i chumped it 17:30:02 <AaronSw> it's serious, apparently 17:31:36 <sbp> ah, that's been out for a while 17:31:40 <sbp> seems quite good 17:31:50 <AaronSw> lol! <mid:mailman.1010759724.4703.python-list@python.org> 17:32:15 <sbp> heh! that is funny 17:32:30 <sbp> what an odd looking mid 17:32:44 <AaronSw> no, i put braces around it 17:32:52 <AaronSw> braces mean the resource identified by the mid 17:33:26 <sbp> yeah, but the mid is funny too 17:33:43 <AaronSw> here: <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=mailman.1010759724.4703.python-list%40python.org> 17:34:13 <AaronSw> next time you can do it yourself 17:34:44 <AaronSw> in response to a fellow who thought self. was too long and wanted my. 17:35:10 <AaronSw> i miss the python-dev summaries 17:36:15 <sbp> heh, that is funny 17:36:40 <AaronSw> why did guido release 2.1.2c1 yesterday? 17:37:57 <sbp> I have no idea. Is this the start of a joke? 17:38:24 <AaronSw> heh, no, apparently: http://www.python.org/2.1.2/ 17:38:32 <AaronSw> because he wanted to get to the other version number? 17:39:44 <AaronSw> soon there'll be 2.2.1 i'm sure 17:40:30 <AaronSw> Oh, right, I forgot about Pippy. 17:40:44 <AaronSw> There's CPython, Jython, Stackless Python and Pippy. 17:41:24 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m793-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 17:41:43 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m793-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:41:51 <AaronSw> hey, cool 17:41:59 <AaronSw> Henry Minsky got my message on the teletype! 17:43:08 <AaronSw> What he's doing sounds really cool. 17:43:30 <AaronSw> argh, i wish my teeth didn't hurt so much so i could eat something 17:46:21 <AaronSw> Neat, SWML is the SignWriting Markup Language, for signers. 17:58:39 <AaronSw> http://logicerror.com/myIdealServer 18:12:35 <AaronSw> danbri: "Of course a bunch of us on the semantic web team think RSS 1.0 is the best thing since sliced bread, but that's kind of different :)" 18:15:42 <AaronSw> Do these people have different keyboards than me? l is not the rightmost letter on the top row.... 18:16:42 <AaronSw> i guess it is on a dvorak keyboard 18:17:22 <AaronSw> I think elf is doing t hat just to confuse us 18:19:09 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:22:05 <AaronSw> Tim Peters: "No, it's Good versus Evil, and the Evil Ones must die. At least on Usenet." 18:24:52 <AaronSw> lol: time it takes java to run the "hello world" program: 114.72 seconds 18:25:13 <AaronSw> - http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/hello/ 18:46:01 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m417-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:59:33 <AaronSw> ooh, RAM came 19:25:45 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:25:53 <atariboy> atariboy is now known as atariBed 19:28:55 <AaronSw> interesting: http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=1010582492 19:29:00 <AaronSw> usb ports, eh 19:49:02 <hazmat> deltab: http://www.paulgraham.com/lib/paulgraham/sec.txt 19:49:08 <hazmat> aaghh. 19:49:15 <hazmat> E: http://www.paulgraham.com/lib/paulgraham/sec.txt 19:49:21 <hazmat> forget it. 20:03:04 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m96-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:04:15 <sbp> * sbp plays Sgt. Pepper's 20:04:45 <sbp> argh: """Please wait just a minute while our server prepares to serve your request. 20:04:50 <sbp> """ - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-11.txt 20:06:23 <sbp> heh: http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/hello/ 20:09:07 <sbp> logster, grep www.w3.org.*test.txt 20:10:03 <logster> I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'www.w3.org.*test.txt' 20:10:04 <logster> 0) 2002-01-11 20:09:07 <sbp> logster, grep www.w3.org.*test.txt 20:10:08 <AaronSw> what, are you too lazy to wait just a minute?! 20:10:08 <sbp> HTTP should be instant. Your server sucks 20:10:08 <AaronSw> Heh, heh. 20:10:08 <AaronSw> It's those RSS people. 20:10:18 <sbp> Can't you fix the RegExps? 20:10:26 <sbp> Oh, I guess that's why you want to move the RSS stuff :-) 20:10:29 <AaronSw> i doubt it 20:10:42 <AaronSw> Yeah, but I'm not sure whose links I should break. 20:10:56 <AaronSw> well... just redirect, not break 20:10:58 <sbp> good point 20:11:29 <AaronSw> i think i'll probably just redirect blogspace.com/rss/* to rss.blogspace.com 20:11:40 <AaronSw> 'twas my original intention anyway 20:13:05 <AaronSw> maybe i should do that now 20:13:23 <sbp> man, I love this album 20:13:37 <AaronSw> which one is that? 20:13:47 <sbp> I remember when I first got it - played it continually. Usually I play music a lot when I get it, but I just couldn't stop 20:13:53 <sbp> the greatest album ever 20:14:01 <AaronSw> Oh, that one. 20:14:05 <sbp> yeah 20:14:15 <AaronSw> Sgt. Pepper 20:14:18 <AaronSw> ;-) 20:14:50 <AaronSw> !playing 20:14:52 <AaronSw> hmm 20:15:23 <AaronSw> .seen AaronSw 2 20:15:25 <xena> AaronSw seen in #nowplaying saying: [ Now Playing: , "hair soundtrack - Let The Sunshine In" ] ~ 25 sec(s) ago 20:15:29 <AaronSw> cool 20:16:10 <sbp> * sbp is currently on "Fixing A Hole" 20:17:13 <sbp> Sheeee (is leaving) 20:17:27 <sbp> Hoooooome 20:18:34 <sbp> We never thought of ourselves... 20:20:29 <AaronSw> aren't those two different album? 20:20:36 <sbp> Um... no 20:20:56 <sbp> And of course Henry the horse dances the waltz! 20:22:33 <AaronSw> i was just joking... of course Abbey Road is the best album. 20:22:41 <sbp> argh, why won't urllib2 let you change the opener in urllib2.OpenerDirector()? 20:22:51 <sbp> in build_opener rather 20:23:16 <sbp> Abbey Road: many people say so 20:32:47 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:33:07 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m96-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:40:00 <AaronSw> "she came in thru the bathroom window..."' 20:45:03 <AaronSw> "oh yeah alright, are you gonna be in my dreams, tonight" 20:55:05 <AaronSw> hmm, one of the Chord variables is named sbp 20:59:28 <sbp> heh, heh 21:03:48 <AaronSw> it seems important, but i can't figure out what it does 21:13:32 <sbp> * sbp does a bit of history 21:19:42 <BenSW> BenSW has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 21:19:42 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 21:20:01 <BenSW> BenSW (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 21:20:01 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 21:20:20 <tav> tav has quit (Excess Flood) 21:20:23 <atariBed> atariBed has quit (Excess Flood) 21:23:28 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:50:32 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:51:00 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m96-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:52:48 <AaronSw> what history would that be? 21:53:13 <AaronSw> re: * sbp does a bit of history 22:00:06 <AaronSw> which symbol means inclusive? [ or )... like in (42, 5] 22:12:05 <hazmat> hazmat has left #swhack 22:17:16 <AaronSw> time to shut down... c'ya all 22:21:05 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:29:00 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m83-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:30:21 <sbp> * sbp is very pleased at the quality of the nwe episodes of Frasier 22:30:33 <sbp> * sbp plays "Nightingale" 22:33:03 <sbp> Hmm... new arrangement 22:33:43 <sbp> two and a half minutes - not bad 22:34:26 <sbp> <AaronSw> what history would that be? 22:34:35 <sbp> just sorting out some songs 23:21:59 <BenSW> BenSW has quit ("Warden: theres no Air in Space. Homer: But theres an Air and Space Museum") 23:28:57 <sbp> cool, he got the quote (almost) right :-) 23:49:47 <sbp> * sbp plays "Honey Pie" 23:59:52 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m587-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-12.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000103574�07420146705�011675� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:09 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m587-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:05:53 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m616-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 00:06:12 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m616-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:20:27 <sbp> interesting: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020107/020107-2.html 00:22:14 <sbp> ooh, old art: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020107/020107-11.html 00:23:57 <sbp> heh, good idea for a sailing newsletter: Marine Matters 00:24:08 <sbp> .google "Marine Matters" 00:24:09 <xena> "Marine Matters": http://www.clydesite.co.uk 00:25:07 <sbp> blargh 00:28:11 <sbp> ooh, camworld.com called the new iMac the "iLamp" too 00:28:59 <sbp> good link: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/10/1711238&mode=thread 00:31:09 <sbp> heh, sample letter to send people:- 00:31:11 <sbp> [[[ 00:31:11 <sbp> You sent the attachment in Microsoft Word format, a secret proprietary format, so I cannot read it. If you send me the plain text, HTML, or PDF, then I could read it. 00:31:11 <sbp> Sending people documents in Word format has bad effects, because that practice puts pressure on them to use Microsoft software. In effect, you become a buttress of the Microsoft monopoly. This specific problem is a major obstacle to the broader adoption of GNU/Linux. Would you please reconsider the use of Word format for communication with other people? 00:31:16 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/10/1711238&mode=thread 00:31:21 <sbp> That's a great article 00:34:22 <sbp> ooh, good solution for stopping (some) spam-crawlers:- 00:34:24 <sbp> [[[ 00:34:24 <sbp> Another option is to use HTML entities to encode mailto: links and other mentions of your address so that extremely brain-dead spamware can't scrape it, like so: 00:34:24 <sbp> <a href="mailto:schampeo@hesketh.com"> 00:34:24 <sbp> Send me email! 00:34:24 <sbp> </a> 00:34:29 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/2001/08/champeon/ 00:38:33 <sbp> heh, heh: http://www.ipodhacks.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=index 00:38:43 <sbp> some people *really* like the iPod 00:38:47 <sbp> (via bump.com) 00:39:46 <sbp> heh: http://www.dashes.com/anil/picture.php?picurl=images/bklosers.jpg&picaption=Now%20Hiring%20Losers&picx=480&picy=640 00:40:26 <sbp> Hmm... 00:40:27 <sbp> [[[ 00:40:27 <sbp> What the reviews did not point out is that there is a way to connect an iPod to a PC. 00:40:32 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.anandtech.com/audio/showdoc.html?i=1575 00:40:56 <sbp> Well, unless someone buys me one... :-) 00:43:01 <sbp> Pff... Dan Gillmor (http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/) finally noticed Google's news page (http://www.google.com/news/newsheadlines.html) 00:45:20 <sbp> heh "Nancy and T": http://www.dashes.com/anil/picture.php?picurl=images/nancy.jpg&picaption=Nancy%20and%20T&picx=300&picy=480 00:45:56 <sbp> weird:- 00:45:58 <sbp> [[[ 00:46:06 <sbp> Scientists are puzzled after the 'virgin birth' of a baby shark at a US zoo that has no male sharks. 00:46:06 <sbp> The bonnethead shark was born in a tank containing only females of the species. 00:46:11 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_492876.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery.naturalworld 00:46:18 <sbp> Ananova always has the weirdest stuff 00:48:15 <sbp> ah, I thought I'd heard of Ka-Ping Yee (of Python request fame) before - he did http://web.lfw.org/jminc 00:50:48 <sbp> Joel's "Many of my days go like this" in http://joel.editthispage.com/ is quite funny 00:50:50 <lilo> [Global Notice] We may further limit users-per-IP, with a few exceptions. For further discussion, turn on WALLOPS. Most clients use one of the following commands: "/umode +w" "/mode <yournick> +w" "/quote mode <yournick> +w" "/raw mode <yournick> +w". Thanks. 00:53:19 <sbp> heh:- 00:53:20 <sbp> @ http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/11/science/11COLO.html 00:53:24 <chumpster> A: Register at NYTimes.com from sbp 00:54:16 <sbp> A::"""If it were possible to see the universe as a whole, from afar, it would appear pale green, between aquamarine and turquoise.""" 00:54:17 <chumpster> commented item A 00:54:27 <sbp> A:|Scientists Paint Universe as a Vast Sea of Green 00:54:27 <chumpster> titled item A 00:58:07 <sbp> interesting news: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/23628.html 00:58:25 <sbp> seems that "hackers" (they probably mean crackers) have a conscience after all 00:58:49 <sbp> oh, this is great:- 00:58:52 <sbp> @ http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/17062.html 00:59:02 <sbp> B:|Hackers are terrorists, says UK law 00:59:06 <chumpster> B: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/17062.html from sbp 00:59:07 <chumpster> titled item B 00:59:26 <sbp> B::"cyberterrorists - known to you and me as hackers" 00:59:26 <chumpster> commented item B 01:01:08 <sbp> B::Nope. Known to me, and anyone else who knows anything about programming culture (or does five seconds of research on Google), as crackers. Just [http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hacker.html|ask the Jargon file] 01:01:09 <chumpster> commented item B 01:01:52 <sbp> B::Then again, it could have been worse - they could have appended "sw" 01:01:53 <chumpster> commented item B 01:02:18 <BenSw> BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:02:32 <sbp> B::s/app/prep/ 01:02:33 <chumpster> commented item B 01:02:37 <BenSw> HI 01:02:40 <sbp> Hi there 01:04:22 <BenSw> I hate AIM... though for some reason i talk on it 01:04:23 <BenSw> hmm 01:05:39 <sbp> @ http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/1046 01:05:41 <chumpster> C: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/1046 from sbp 01:05:47 <sbp> G:|Why We've Embraced Mac OS X 01:06:19 <sbp> C:|Why We've Embraced Mac OS X 01:06:20 <chumpster> titled item C 01:06:31 <sbp> C::Derrick: """over the last year, you've seen more Mac-related articles in our lead space. Now I don't know how you feel personally about this platform, but I want to tell you why we've been covering this stuff.""" 01:06:32 <chumpster> commented item C 01:08:17 <sbp> Man, sites that automatically play sounds annoy me - especially when I'm listening to something else. I guess there must be a way to configure my browser so that it doesn't play them, but still... 01:09:08 <sbp> ?: http://www.geocities.com/love_letter_project/ 01:09:57 <sbp> heh:- 01:09:58 <sbp> [[[ 01:09:58 <sbp> You don't seem to be subscribed to any weblogs. Either you have cookies turned off, or you haven't visited any Metacookie-enabled sites in the last year. It's probably the former... 01:10:03 <sbp> ]]] - http://metacookie.com/ 01:10:08 <sbp> guess again, suckers 01:12:05 <sbp> ooh, this is quite sad: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_493265.html?menu=news.quirkies 01:12:16 <sbp> """The Russian makers of the MiG-31 fighter jet are starting to manufacture trolley buses to bring in more money. 01:12:16 <sbp> The company hasn't sold any of the jets to the Russian government for 10 years. 01:12:17 <sbp> """ 01:12:36 <sbp> MiG are a renound aerospace company. That's really sad indeed 01:12:54 <sbp> heh:- 01:12:55 <sbp> @ http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_493258.html?menu=news.quirkies 01:13:02 <chumpster> D: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_493258.html?menu=news.quirkies from sbp 01:13:05 <sbp> D:|Euro notes 'only poisonous if you eat 400 at once' 01:13:06 <chumpster> titled item D 01:13:15 <sbp> D::Phew, that's a relief 01:13:15 <BenSw> lol 01:13:15 <chumpster> commented item D 01:13:57 <BenSw> phew I only ate 399 at a time 01:14:12 <sbp> D::"""He [Eugenio Domingo Solans, European Central Bank] told reporters the ink only poses health risks if people eat hundreds of the notes.""" 01:14:13 <chumpster> commented item D 01:14:16 <sbp> lucky you :-) 01:14:29 <sbp> heh, this is the best bit: """He told reporters it's not recommended to eat the euro notes and also said the practice would be "expensive".""" 01:14:53 <BenSw> Heh, heh, heh 01:15:24 <sbp> heh: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_493123.html?menu=news.quirkies 01:15:32 <sbp> I wonder why we don't get Bulgarian T.V.? 01:19:21 <BenSw> Why would you want Bulgarian T.V.? 01:21:10 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:21:23 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m616-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:21:31 <BenSw> Well I'm off to do work for the plex, see ya 01:21:46 <BenSw> BenSw is now known as BenSw|away 01:23:18 <sbp> work for the Plex? 01:23:32 <sbp> pairs are better: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_492030.html?menu=news.technology 01:23:46 <sbp> *work* for the Plex? 01:24:03 <sbp> actually, I want to ask Aaron some questions about 'Plex. I wonder where he is? 01:24:37 <sbp> ooh, polyhedra: http://www.sciencenews.org/20011222/bob13.asp 01:27:07 <sbp> interesting little article about guessing cards: http://www.sciencenews.org/20011222/mathtrek.asp 01:27:11 <sbp> might have to try that out 01:27:23 <sbp> bung it on the TODO list :-) 01:30:58 <sbp> ooh: http://partners.nytimes.com/2002/01/11/national/11PRIN.html?pagewanted=print 01:31:11 <sbp> via Follow Me Here http://world.std.com/~emg/blogger.html 01:31:21 <sbp> [[[ 01:31:23 <sbp> 'A judge has ruled for the first time that fingerprint evidence, a virtually unassailable prosecutorial tool for 90 years, does not meet the standards set for scientific testimony and that experts in the field cannot testify that a suspect's prints definitely match those found at a crime scene. The decision, by a senior federal judge in Philadelphia, comes after two years of efforts by defense lawyers to hold fingerprint analysis to standards set by t 01:31:23 <sbp> ]]] 01:31:58 <sbp> if you print, you print: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,48996,00.html 01:32:15 <sbp> """Online journalism is the same as print, radio and TV news when it comes to free-press protections against charges of libel.""" (from that article) 01:32:49 <sbp> wow, look at North and South Korea: http://www.freemaninstitute.com/nightearth.htm 01:33:03 <sbp> spoiler: North Korea is really dark, South Korea is quite lit up 01:37:33 <sbp> cool; lots of activity in the early universe, according to this: http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/2002/02/ 01:38:12 <GabeW> GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:38:40 <GabeW> .seen AaronSw 01:38:41 <xena> AaronSw seen leaving #nowplaying [ ] ~ 3 hr(s) 17 min(s) 39 sec(s) ago 01:38:44 <sbp> heh, BBC's silly stories: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/world/2001/review_of_2001/newsid_1717000/1717873.stm 01:39:00 <sbp> Hi Gabe. I wanna talk to Aaron too, but I dunno where he is 01:39:44 <GabeW> hey, maybe you can help me 01:39:55 <sbp> heh:- 01:39:55 <sbp> [[[Scientists greeted the discovery of the Bruijns Brush Turkey with great excitement, as the elusive beast had not been seen since 1938, and was presumed extinct. 01:39:56 <sbp> Their delight turned to dismay when it emerged that hunters who had made the find had eaten the evidence. 01:39:57 <sbp> ]]] 01:40:00 <sbp> sure, ask away 01:40:26 <GabeW> I need to know about standards relating to alternate ways of serializing XML (e.g. perhaps from an infoset) 01:40:38 <GabeW> or at least proposals 01:41:31 <GabeW> do you know what I'm asking? 01:41:39 <sbp> Hmm... strangely I haven't followed any. I unsubscribed from XML-Dev quite a while ago, and all of the best proposals would have been discussed there 01:41:49 <sbp> of course I know what you're asking :-) 01:41:54 <GabeW> actually more properly i'm talking about serialization of an infoset, I guess ;-) 01:42:57 <GabeW> Alternatively, I'd be interested in a simpler form of XPath that could allow one to say "This text is the content of the 1st blah element which is a child of the 2nd "foo" element which is the 3rd "duh" element of a document with outer element "baz") for example 01:47:06 <sbp> [[[ 01:47:06 <sbp> I've been a contributing editor to InfoWorld for more than 10 years, so I've written first-hand about the shift to the Windows GUI from the old character-based DOS that used to be installed on almost all personal computers. 01:47:11 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/01/07/020107oplivingston.xml 01:47:14 <sbp> argh, but where? 01:47:29 <sbp> .google "Brian Livingston" GUI DOS 01:47:30 <xena> "Brian Livingston" GUI DOS: http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/01/07/020107oplivingston.xml 01:47:47 <sbp> Pff 01:48:41 <deltab> hehe 01:49:26 <sbp> heh:- 01:49:27 <sbp> [[[ 01:49:28 <sbp> My pet peeve? Designers who feel compelled to use black link text for either visited or unvisited links. Those, like myself, who have underlining turned off in our browsers are thus forced to mouse around all over the place, waiting for our browsers to give us the finger :) 01:49:34 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.stcsig.org/id/idblog.html 01:49:41 <sbp> Why not set a user style sheet? Oh well 01:53:53 <sbp> @ http://plexdev.org/ 01:54:09 <chumpster> E: http://plexdev.org/ from sbp 01:54:20 <sbp> E:|Plex 01:54:21 <chumpster> titled item E 01:55:04 <sbp> E::"""The Plex is a decentralized network for sharing data.""" So, that means "P2P app." 01:55:05 <chumpster> commented item E 01:56:24 <sbp> E::"""The Plex provides a simple to use database system for your applications. Plex-based applications can easily be used anonymously, securely, quickly, and easily. By providing a shared storage system the Plex can integrate protocols like email, newsgroups and the Web into a single system.""" 01:56:25 <chumpster> commented item E 01:56:47 <sbp> It's about time we chumped that 01:58:04 <sbp> @ http://www.moby-online.com/Essays/html/davidBowie.html 01:58:10 <chumpster> F: http://www.moby-online.com/Essays/html/davidBowie.html from sbp 01:58:38 <sbp> F:|Moby Interviews David Bowie 01:58:39 <chumpster> titled item F 01:58:50 <GabeW> GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 01:59:02 <sbp> F::Moby Q: What shall we be excited about tomorrow? 01:59:03 <chumpster> commented item F 01:59:11 <sbp> F::Bowie A: To see heaven in a grain of sand and eternity in a wildflower. And 'Cops' 01:59:11 <sbp> on Fox. 01:59:17 <sbp> F::on Fox. 01:59:27 <sbp> invisible line breaks suck 02:00:42 <chumpster> commented item F 02:01:15 <sbp> F::Oops, vice versa (Bowie Q, Moby A) 02:02:14 <chumpster> commented item F 02:03:23 <chumpster> commented item F 02:05:19 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m899-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:05:37 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m899-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:07:41 <sbp> @ http://davidgrenier.weblogger.com/2001/01/09 02:07:46 <chumpster> G: The dumbest girls in the world from sbp 02:08:08 <sbp> G::via. [http://www.kottke.org/|Kottke.org] 02:08:09 <chumpster> commented item G 02:10:30 <sbp> G::Prepare to laugh loud and long 02:10:31 <chumpster> commented item G 02:12:53 <sbp> G::I wonder if one of those girls will ever get to read this article? I guess that reading is too "boring", though 02:12:55 <chumpster> commented item G 02:13:36 <sbp> ugh:- 02:13:37 <sbp> [[[ 02:13:37 <sbp> Hey, I was young, what do you want? At least I was never a goth. Of course, I was a late eighties metalhea 02:13:46 <sbp> ]]] - http://davidgrenier.weblogger.com/stories/storyReader$15 02:13:55 <sbp> er... chopped of the "d" 02:14:05 <sbp> now I know how Perl programmers who abuse chop feel 02:17:06 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m915-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:17:22 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m915-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:19:09 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m918-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:19:22 <SeanP> SeanP (~sean@m918-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:19:44 <SeanP> SeanP has quit (Client Quit) 02:20:16 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m918-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:21:44 <sbp> cool: http://images.google.com/images?num=20&imgsafe=off&q=webcam32.jpg 02:25:55 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m151-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:26:11 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m151-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:26:34 <sbp> lots of Alaska cams: http://alyeskacam.com/alaska.htm 02:27:10 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Now I know how Perl programmers who abuse "chop" feel 02:28:05 <sbp> ooh, Touch-N'-Go: http://camera.touchngo.com/ 02:28:20 <sbp> BLURB:Internet Modes 02:28:22 <chumpster> H: Internet Modes from sbp 02:28:59 <sbp> H::I've found that the way I use the Internet has changed a lot. At first, I thought of it as "read-only" - viewing sites, taking in information. Browsing 02:29:00 <chumpster> commented item H 02:29:33 <sbp> H::Then I decided that instead of just musing on the junk that I read, I could *publish* it too, so I started lots of Websites 02:29:34 <chumpster> commented item H 02:29:52 <sbp> H::And now I use it a lot for communication, via. IRC and email 02:29:53 <chumpster> commented item H 02:30:37 <sbp> H::And then, of course, there's collaboration: a blend of publishing and communication 02:30:39 <chumpster> commented item H 02:31:25 <sbp> H::I wonder: what next? What more can I get out of the Internet? People say that information access on the move will be useful, and I guess it will if you're on the move all of the time 02:31:26 <chumpster> commented item H 02:33:02 <sbp> heh! 02:33:03 <sbp> [[[ 02:33:04 <sbp> Morbus says (via email) that while Perl and PHP are included in the standard Mac OS X install, Python isn't. I read on Usenet that Tcl is included, but not Tk. 02:33:12 <sbp> ]]] - http://webseitz.editthispage.com/ 02:33:24 <sbp> wow, that's kinda scary. Just browsing the Internet, and up pops Morbus 02:33:29 <sbp> @ http://webseitz.editthispage.com/ 02:33:38 <chumpster> I: Radio killed the HTML star... from sbp 02:33:41 <sbp> I::"""Morbus says (via email) that while Perl and PHP are included in the standard Mac OS X install, Python isn't. I read on Usenet that Tcl is included, but not Tk.""" 02:33:42 <chumpster> commented item I 02:34:18 <sbp> I::What's that all about? Come on Apple, [http://www.python.org/|Python] should be on every machine! 02:34:19 <chumpster> commented item I 02:39:13 <sbp> wow, cool photos: http://www.livejournal.com/community/photographie/ 02:42:40 <sbp> interesting (opt out of pop-ups, using cookies): http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html 02:44:01 <sbp> Pff, Real got an iPod: http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/archives/000092.shtml#000092 02:44:32 <sbp> @ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,49638,00.html 02:44:37 <chumpster> J: Norway Cracks Down on DVD Hacker from sbp 02:45:42 <sbp> J:Yep, they indicted Jon Johansen, the guy who just wanted to get his DVDs to work on Linux 02:45:47 <sbp> J::Yep, they indicted Jon Johansen, the guy who just wanted to get his DVDs to work on Linux 02:45:50 <chumpster> commented item J 02:46:40 <sbp> J::and in doing so, created [http://jult.net/dvd/win-binaries/DeCSS.exe|DeCSS]. But you know about that already, right? 02:46:43 <chumpster> commented item J 02:47:09 <sbp> J::"""At LinuxWorld 2000, Johansen fans passed out bumper stickers that read "Free Jon Johansen."""" 02:47:10 <chumpster> commented item J 02:50:29 <sbp> J::cf. the [http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/|DeCSS gallery] 02:50:33 <chumpster> commented item J 02:53:04 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m162-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:53:16 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m162-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:56:53 <sbp> heh: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200201/msg00072.html 03:08:07 <sbp> lol! "I'd sleep with the guy from Staind before I'd tumble for La Brit." - http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2001/12/03/britney_spears/index.html 03:13:48 <sbp> lol! http://www.studentmagazine.com/thisweek/thisweek_article.asp?articleID=213 03:13:56 <sbp> "As you can expect it's really affecting my sex life. I can't help it. Each time my wife initiates sex, these ejaculating hippos keep floating through my mind." 03:13:59 <sbp> crazy stuff 03:15:19 <sbp> Napster relaunches again (kinda): http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020110/en/music-napster_3.html 03:16:52 <sbp> heh: http://www.brenna.net/notes/sys-adm.html 03:22:35 <sbp> @ http://www.birdhouse.org/macos/beos_osx/ 03:22:43 <chumpster> K: http://www.birdhouse.org/macos/beos_osx/ from sbp 03:22:52 <sbp> K:|Tales of a BeOS Refugee 03:22:54 <chumpster> titled item K 03:23:25 <sbp> K::"""BeOS really was the promised land of operating systems, as far as I was concerned, and it was only a matter of time before the rest of the world saw the light. Or so I thought.""" 03:23:29 <chumpster> commented item K 03:24:14 <sbp> eek: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20020111/wl/mdf111253.html 03:31:41 <sbp> Wow! 03:31:56 <sbp> [[[ 03:31:57 <sbp> BeOS 5 comes in two flavors: Personal and Pro. The Personal Edition is freely downloadable from free.be.com (42 MB), and can be installed without partitioning your hard drive. When you install Personal Edition, a standard Windows installer places a 500 MB file on a Windows volume, inside of which is the Be File System (BFS) containing a preinstalled version of BeOS. 03:32:03 <sbp> ]]] - http://www.byte.com/documents/s%3D1115/byt20010806s0002/ 03:32:27 <sbp> Surely not? Could I install BeOS and have it running on a WinMe computer? 03:34:09 <sbp> Mmmkay, they got liquidated 03:37:31 <sbp> ah: ftp://ftp2.zdnet.com/pub/private/sWlIB/utilities/system_utilities/beospe.exe 03:37:51 <sbp> via. http://web.archive.org/web/20000622090604/hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=00172B&b=beos 03:38:39 <sbp> and it's not there. Oh well 03:39:37 <sbp> I wonder if the Weblog will chop those items out tonight? 04:04:55 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:15:38 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m891-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:09:21 <tav`> sbp: yea, you could do that 05:09:29 <tav`> fucking palm bought be and all that though 05:27:43 <atariboy> atariboy (~atari@c18396.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #swhack 05:27:48 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:44:18 <MysticOne> [GlobalNotice] Sorry to send this out again for those of you who already saw the wallops, but I've had more requests to send this message out. There is a serious exploit in X-Chat (versions older than 1.8.7) that will allow another user to make your client say or do things on your behalf. This can be fixed (and quickly!) by either upgrading to 1.8.7, or typing /set percascii 0. Thank you for your support. 05:46:31 <atariboy> BenSw|away ? AaronSw ? 05:59:44 <GabeW> GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:00:17 <GabeW> GabeW has quit (Client Quit) 06:02:56 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:36:22 <atariboy> atariboy has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:36:50 <atariboy> atariboy (~atari@c18396.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #swhack 06:37:02 <atariboy> atariboy has quit (Excess Flood) 07:26:15 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:37:15 <atariboy> atariboy (~atari@c18396.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #swhack 10:33:54 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:10:47 <atariboy> atariboy has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:19:17 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:48:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m48-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 12:58:19 <sbp> * sbp plays some Bob Dylan :-) 13:59:36 <BenSw|away> Hello 13:59:49 <BenSw|away> BenSw|away is now known as BenSw 14:10:42 <sbp> Hi 14:48:18 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m897-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 14:48:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m897-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 15:41:41 <sbp> * sbp plays "Obviously 5 Believers" 15:50:17 <sbp> http://www.python.org/windows/win32all/ 15:50:33 <sbp> * sbp gets some text editors 16:37:32 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m586-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 16:37:51 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m586-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:56:32 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m657-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 16:56:50 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m657-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:37:38 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:33:32 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m141-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:33:56 <sbp> I just had an idea (that people must have come up with before) 18:34:07 <sbp> A big RDF database for a file system 18:34:25 <sbp> a bit like the BeOS filesys, but exportable as RDF 18:34:50 <sbp> instead of having "file names" and "directories", you just throw some information at the database 18:34:55 <sbp> it'll give it some ID 18:35:12 <sbp> and automatically compress it if it reckons it can be compressed. You can also store metadata with it 18:35:23 <sbp> for example: a label which acts as a filename 18:35:53 <sbp> if you program it to recognize :fileName as a daml:UnambiguousProperty, then it'll only let you use one per file 18:36:08 <sbp> that way, you can search by any metadata, and fileName as a backup 18:36:34 <sbp> it would record content-length and date modified etc. in the normal way 18:36:54 <sbp> you could also archive files tthat way - it would act a bit like CVS. and it could have a CGI front end etc. 18:37:10 <sbp> I thought of this a bit last night, but I'm collecting it all together now 18:37:38 <sbp> the problem is, there's no way that I can code it. This is a big database task, requiring skill, and knowledge of optimization in Python etc. 18:38:15 <sbp> the other problem is that the only way to interface it would be through that file system's shell. so you'd have to go through bash through python and through this program 18:39:25 <sbp> Perhaps I can convince someone to tack it onto the Plex, use it as a local file storage system 18:39:47 <sbp> storing data with an SHA5** hash code would be a very good idea actually. Ooh! 18:40:05 <sbp> [mild excitement] 18:40:48 <sbp> "heh, y'know, whilst we were re-wiring the Internet, we thought we'd give local file systems a bit of a make-over too" 18:44:22 <sbp> Hmm... actually, how hard could it be? 18:47:13 <sbp> [[[ 18:47:13 <sbp> import sys, sha512 18:47:14 <sbp> if __name__=="__main__": 18:47:14 <sbp> f = open(sys.argv[1], 'r').read() 18:47:14 <sbp> open(sha512.new(f).hexdigest(), 'w').write(f) 18:47:17 <sbp> ]]] - file.py 18:48:01 <sbp> well, it's a start 18:51:01 <sbp> heh, now I just have this file called "4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1" in my home dir, with the word "blargh" in it. Could it be the first instance of a file being named by its SHA5** hash? 18:52:15 <sbp> Hmph, I'd have to put the metadata in some big central store 18:52:27 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 18:54:44 <sbp> Gotta run 18:55:35 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:11:28 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m218-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:12:09 <BenSw> hi 20:12:52 <sbp> Hi there 20:14:28 <sbp> * sbp plays "Nashville Skyline" 20:21:12 <sbp> heh, "How To Write Unmaintainable Code": http://mindprod.com/unmain.html 20:21:43 <sbp> @ http://mindprod.com/unmain.html 20:21:50 <chumpster> L: How To Write Unmaintainable Code from sbp 20:22:37 <sbp> L::I love the huge disclaimer at the top - as if anyone would take this seriously 20:22:39 <chumpster> commented item L 20:24:06 <sbp> L::Some great programming tips, including "Code That Masquerades As Comments and Vice Versa", and "Arbitrary Names That Masquerade as Keywords" 20:24:08 <chumpster> commented item L 20:25:52 <sbp> .google Befunge93 20:25:53 <xena> Befunge93: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-23.txt 20:25:56 <sbp> heh 20:26:01 <sbp> .google Befunge 20:26:02 <xena> Befunge: /url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/befunge/&e=922 20:26:15 <sbp> L::Of course, the easiest thing to do to make your code unmainainable is to port it to [http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/befunge/|Befunge] 20:26:17 <chumpster> commented item L 20:50:12 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:24:01 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m725-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:24:22 <sbp> heh, heh: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~hennessy/tao.html 21:24:41 <sbp> this is good, although I've probably read it/come across it before: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html 21:25:25 <sbp> """You will hear a lot of people recommending Perl, and Perl is still more popular than Python, but it's harder to learn and (in my opinion) less well designed.""" 21:25:30 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh 21:26:10 <sbp> * sbp searches for a LISP tutorial 21:26:26 <sbp> s/a/a decent/ 21:30:19 <sbp> Wow, people are generally really crap at writing tutorials/primers 21:33:49 <sbp> this one's reasonable: http://grimpeur.tamu.edu/~colin/lp/ 21:44:46 <sbp> ooh, bing! 21:45:11 <sbp> LISP is interesting because you can do so much with such a limited set of functions 21:46:38 <sbp> And I percieve a lot of influences for RDF in there - nil (in DAML), and ' (reification) 21:46:51 <sbp> Great 21:58:14 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m952-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:58:30 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m952-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:12:38 <BenSw> Hello 22:15:12 <sbp> Hi 22:55:41 <BenSw> whats up? 22:56:37 <sbp> just doing the usual junk - writing code, talking to people, etc. 22:59:49 <BenSw> Heh, heh, heh 23:00:01 <sbp> .google DanBri Ruby RDF 23:00:03 <xena> DanBri Ruby RDF: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0050.html 23:00:42 <BenSw> .seen atariboy 23:00:42 <xena> atariboy seen joining #infoAnarchy ~ 7 hr(s) 12 min(s) 43 sec(s) ago 23:03:09 <BenSw> * BenSw starts to watch monsters inc on his linux box 23:23:29 <tav`> you have a divx? 23:31:55 <AaronSw> mpg 23:32:31 <AaronSw> sbp is learning LIS{? ooh. 23:32:41 <sbp> Aaron? Is that really you? 23:32:48 <AaronSw> It is. 23:32:51 <sbp> Welcome! 23:32:54 <AaronSw> Were they impersonating me before? 23:33:03 <AaronSw> s/LIS{/LISP/ 23:33:06 <sbp> Nope, but I thought it might be Ben 23:33:28 <sbp> argh, I have so many things to ask and tell you, I've forgotten them all! 23:33:40 <AaronSw> It was quite annoying: I had my speakers on so I kept hearing you say stuff like "I wonder where Aaron is..." and wanted to scream, "it's Saturday stupid! write your questions in the channel" 23:34:07 <sbp> Heh, yeah, I worked out that it was Saturday after a while 23:35:16 <sbp> Um... O.K., the first thing is that I chumped quite a few items. But that's merely incedental 23:35:26 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes to read the (surprisingly large) logs 23:35:47 <sbp> I thought of something: perhaps the chump should retain at least three-five items when it rolls over? 23:36:22 <AaronSw> That would be nice, but would be a pain to implement... i mean, how do you deal with permalinks? 23:36:27 <sbp> Because when people come to the blog and see one item on there, they're not going to be thrilled, and yet they may not have seen yesterday items... so why not keep a few on there? 23:36:38 <sbp> Well, yeah - I just come up with the idea, mate 23:36:42 <AaronSw> Hmm, I wonder if I could make it show a few days worth... 23:36:45 <sbp> s/idea/ideas/ 23:37:14 <sbp> Hmm... my funny accents don't come across well on IRC, do they? 23:38:14 <sbp> Anyway, the next thing was that I have quite a few questions about 'Plex. Don't even know where to start with them, or what forum to address them to 23:38:27 <sbp> Now that I think about it, I should have bundled them up in an email, and sent them off 23:38:46 <sbp> But as it is, I haven't even written them down, so I've probably forgotten half of them. Oh well 23:39:28 <sbp> oh, the next thing is that I kinda "came up" with a file system idea, but that's all in the logs 23:39:48 <sbp> I thought that it might gel with 'Plex a little bit, but if not, who cares? 23:40:30 <sbp> Nextly, I just sat down to work on some more RDF stuff, and noticed that there are quite a few RDF APIs. It might behoove someone to write up a comparison, although no one will 23:41:12 <wmf> wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 23:41:15 <AaronSw> comparison: we will just say "use plexrdf" ;-) 23:41:16 <sbp> Hi Wes 23:41:22 <wmf> hey swhackers 23:41:43 <AaronSw> heh, i just knew your word attachment quote was from Stallman. it's got his tone 23:42:07 <sbp> heh, heh. Yeah, I liked that article, even if it was a bit on the FS-preachy side 23:42:21 <AaronSw> hey there wes 23:44:11 <AaronSw> Ooh, Prarie Home Companion is on 23:46:47 <wmf> I'm sick and bored; not a good combination 23:46:59 <wmf> I might have to haxor teh planet or something 23:47:06 <AaronSw> Heh, heh 23:48:18 <AaronSw> Why don't you develop a nice Hotline client? 23:48:47 <wmf> what a coincidence; I was just thinking about warez 23:49:26 <wmf> I think the hotline model is flawed 23:49:45 <AaronSw> I agree, but I've found more cool stuff on there than I have with P2P systems. 23:50:02 <AaronSw> I wonder why... 23:50:32 <AaronSw> <sbp> Joel's "Many of my days go like this" in http://joel.editthispage.com/ is quite funny 23:50:36 <AaronSw> it's funny because it's true 23:50:49 <wmf> maybe we need a combined P2P/hotline client that automatically mirrors hotline content into a P2P cloud 23:51:03 <AaronSw> Ooh, that'd be cool.... but hotline is so slow for downloading. 23:51:07 <AaronSw> with queues and all 23:53:42 <tav`> we just need to get the server maintainers right? 23:53:55 <AaronSw> yeah 23:55:46 <wmf> * wmf quits Carracho after suffering its lameness for 5 minutes 23:55:52 <tav`> well, i'm just waiting for fatgit to get lotr 2 in april 23:56:33 <tav`> that's like 8 months before it hits the big screen? and dvd quality too! 23:56:40 <AaronSw> @ http://www.openp2p.com/lpt/a//p2p/2002/01/11/jabber_bots.html 23:56:47 <chumpster> M: http://www.openp2p.com/lpt/a//p2p/2002/01/11/jabber_bots.html from AaronSw 23:57:31 <tav`> heh 23:57:35 <AaronSw> M:|Is Jabber's Chatbot the Command Line of the Future? 23:57:37 <chumpster> titled item M 23:57:37 <tav`> ?? hmz 23:57:52 <tav`> <maya> hmz is the meaning of life 23:57:59 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m248-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 23:58:07 <AaronSw> how's fg getting it? 23:58:11 <tav`> wmf: carracho? 23:58:18 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m248-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:58:26 <wmf> tav`: a hotline clone 23:58:39 <AaronSw> M::talks about "frank, a meeting bot that helps with the mundane side of organizing and publishing meeting notes" 23:59:01 <chumpster> commented item M ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-13.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000160350�07420417473�011674� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:19 <AaronSw> M::Bots are an interesting combination of command lines and Web services. I find myself using xena quite a bit. 00:00:20 <tav`> this the blest lover shall for venus take! 00:00:25 <chumpster> commented item M 00:00:31 <wmf> tav`: can you get me a Segway? 00:00:39 <tav`> lol 00:00:49 <tav`> been a good boy this year? 00:00:54 <AaronSw> What do you need one for, you've got a car. I got dibs 00:01:31 <wmf> a black-market segway has extreme greek cred 00:02:18 <tav`> M::aierus are the future! 00:02:21 <chumpster> commented item M 00:02:53 <AaronSw> tav, what do you think of the Singularity? 00:03:12 <sbp> all who go near it will be sucked into oblivion 00:03:13 <AaronSw> [[[ 00:03:15 <AaronSw> For those of us confused by the maddeningly vague, numbingly­written WAI Web Accessibility documents, the State of Illinois has prepared a nicely condensed, easy­to­understand tutorial on the subject. Unfortunately, the tutorial is in PDF format, making it inaccessible. (Hat tip: Anonymous Donor A.) 00:03:20 <AaronSw> ]]] - http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0102b.html#birthday 00:03:32 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 00:03:43 <deltab> he 00:04:06 <tav`> * tav` declines to comment 00:04:16 <AaronSw> why's that? 00:04:41 <tav`> no comment 00:04:53 <wmf> the Celeron is up to 1.3GHz; I feel so behind the times 00:05:07 <tav`> wmf: heh, pj33r my 550 mhz cpu! 00:05:20 <wmf> lucky bastard! 00:05:41 <sbp> Ooh, CPU wars? 00:06:24 <AaronSw> [[[Classical Fiddle Music: George "Big-Paw" Gershwin and his "Rhapsody in Blue Polkadots"]]] - Prarie Home Companion 00:14:48 <AaronSw> * AaronSw grabs Radio 7 00:14:49 <AaronSw> err 8 00:14:57 <sbp> * sbp notes that almost all RDF APIs have a Node/Resource, Triple/Statement, and Graph/Store 00:15:07 <wmf> radio looks nice 00:17:35 <AaronSw> PHC: "James Joyce was one of the greatest writers of the 21st century, you can now use his tips to write your business letters." 00:17:37 <AaronSw> hilarious! 00:18:00 <wmf> somebody alert Jorn 00:18:47 <AaronSw> "The stream of consciousness style is so good for memos... and client letters too!" 00:19:10 <deltab> bahaha 00:19:14 <sbp> lol 00:19:21 <AaronSw> * AaronSw hunts for a transcript. 00:19:34 <AaronSw> @ http://phc.mpr.org/performances/20000304/joyce_business_school.html 00:19:41 <chumpster> N: APHC: Saturday, March 4, 2000 from AaronSw 00:19:49 <AaronSw> N:|James Joyce Business School 00:19:51 <chumpster> titled item N 00:20:13 <AaronSw> N::"Do you find it frustrating to write business letters and memos that say all that you want to say? Maybe it's time you considered a business writing course at the James Joyce Business School. James Joyce was one of the greatest writers of the Twentieth Century. Now you can use his principles to improve your own business writing." 00:20:15 <chumpster> commented item N 00:20:32 <AaronSw> Jorn's resume: 00:20:33 <AaronSw> -- 00:20:34 <AaronSw> Dear Sir or Madam or Sodom or Whom It May Confirm: 00:20:34 <AaronSw> I understand you are hiring programmers and hereby present my amplification for annoyment by your firm. As you see, I see, juicy lucy goosy poosy, I have long expedience in grammar and was medicated in the best schools and my dram is to ride underwear. On my clothes is my consomme. Please feel free. 00:20:35 <AaronSw> I remain your humble serpent. 00:20:36 <AaronSw> -- 00:21:29 <sbp> Patent pending 00:22:23 <sbp> Dear Mr. Pending, [...] 00:23:11 <AaronSw> Have you written up your plex questions yet? 00:24:37 <sbp> Nope 00:24:43 <AaronSw> Well, do so already. 00:24:46 <AaronSw> Ooh: http://www.distributed.net/webcams/ 00:24:54 <sbp> hey! That's my link 00:25:45 <sbp> Hmm... that's funny, I didn't record it on my little "record browsing session" spree 00:25:53 <AaronSw> <sbp> wow, that's kinda scary. Just browsing the Internet, and up pops Morbus 00:25:53 <AaronSw> not only that, but using information i gave him! and he didn't even credit me. 00:26:00 <sbp> lol! 00:26:23 <AaronSw> Heh, you fell for the raelity pun: "Real got an iPod" 00:26:31 <sbp> argh 00:26:47 <sbp> down to dumb-assed typing 00:27:04 <sbp> D'ya want me to just paste questions in here, or send them somewhere else? 00:27:35 <deltab> does that mean it supports RealAudio now? :-) 00:28:10 <AaronSw> sbp: whatever's easier for you. i intend to send it to plex-talk or throw it on the site when we're done 00:28:43 <sbp> Mmmkay 00:29:38 <AaronSw> Heh, http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200201/msg00072.html is pretty funny. 00:35:02 <sbp> :-) 00:35:10 <sbp> Here's a handful of things 00:35:11 <sbp> * Does the success of 'Plex depend upon it being install on as many computers as possible? Who's going to do the PR? 00:35:11 <sbp> * Why is 'Plex better than any of the current P2P implementations - i.e. what are the features that put it a cut above the rest? 00:35:11 <sbp> * What languages is 'Plex going to be programmed in? How is it going to be shipped - as code to run, or a packaged binary, or a choice? 00:35:17 <sbp> * There are very few easy to get SHA5** implmenetations lying about. Do the Plex developers intend to create their own implementation, or attempt to package one up? 00:35:18 <sbp> * How does 'Plex work? More specifically: * Can I simply retrieve files by their hash/URI, and how does this work in general? * How does it remain anonymous 00:35:18 <sbp> * Are you expecting all internet/Web related apps. to be be based on 'Plex technologies in the future? 00:35:25 <sbp> * What is there to stop any other group of people designing a rival 'Plex? What would happen if they did? 00:35:25 <sbp> * How many people are currently working on the Plex project? When can I expect to install some working code? 00:35:25 <sbp> * Will data ever be deleted from the Plex? What happens if someone tries to flood the network - is 'Plex resistant to attacks? 00:35:28 <sbp> * How much will 'Plex cost me? Seriously now 00:35:36 <AaronSw> maybe you should have just emailed these to me. :-) 00:35:46 <AaronSw> * Why do I keep saying 'Plex? 00:35:51 <sbp> nah, I want real-time answers. Make you sweat 00:36:00 <sbp> 'Plex = the Plex. Plex = Plex 00:36:41 <sbp> s/rival 'Plex/Plex/ 00:37:05 <sbp> feel free to answer via. IRC, email, or HTTP 00:37:14 <sbp> or all three. Hey, I'm easy 00:37:27 <sbp> But you must answer by sundown tomorrow 00:37:36 <AaronSw> heh, heh 00:37:39 <AaronSw> * AaronSw starts on it 00:37:43 <sbp> :-) 00:40:58 <AaronSw> -- 00:40:59 <AaronSw> Does the success of the Plex depend upon it being install on as many computers as possible? 00:41:01 <AaronSw> Of course not. Obvious the Plex benefits from the "Network Effect", meaning that the more people who use it, the more valuable the system becomes. However, the Plex is perfectly useful even if there are only a small number of users participating. 00:41:01 <AaronSw> Who's going to do the PR? 00:41:02 <AaronSw> Who did the PR for the Internet? The Web? The Plex is completely non-commercial, and we feel that if it's useful, it will be news on its own. If you'd like to ask us questions about it, you can of course <a href="mailto:webmaster@plexdev.org">send us an email</a>. 00:41:03 <AaronSw> -- 00:42:18 <sbp> ooh, he's 1/5 of the way through already, and it's not even sunrise 00:42:34 <AaronSw> I'm going to use this for a FAQ. 00:42:48 <AaronSw> How does it sound? is it too commercial? 00:42:55 <sbp> no, those are good answers 00:43:11 <sbp> does this sound too commercial to you: "The Plex is completely non-commercial"? 00:43:23 <AaronSw> heh. 00:43:30 <AaronSw> i meant comerciallian. 00:43:41 <AaronSw> like: "this toothpaste will make you happy and joyous for the rest of your life!" 00:44:03 <sbp> If the Plex were a toothpaste, people would eat it 00:44:16 <sbp> no, I don't think it's too commerciallian 00:45:04 <sbp> although I must admit that I fail to see how it's going to be useful if there are only five users. You can bung that in the FAQ too, if you like :-) 00:45:44 <AaronSw> It's useful in the same way the Web was with just particle physicists. 00:45:53 <sbp> lol 00:45:59 <sbp> Mmmkay 00:46:45 <AaronSw> -- 00:46:45 <AaronSw> Why is the Plex better than any of the current P2P implementations - i.e. what are the features that put it a cut above the rest? 00:46:46 <AaronSw> We've tried to learn from many of the current P2P systems in the Plex, and of course the network is continuously evolving and improving. However, phase one of the Plex project focuses on metadata, something few P2P networks have tackled. We feel that this is really going to be useful and poweful if done right. 00:46:46 <AaronSw> -- 00:47:32 <sbp> apart from the invention of a new adj., that's also a good response 00:47:55 <AaronSw> which adj. is that? 00:48:02 <sbp> poweful 00:51:05 <sbp> ooh, wacky coding:- 00:51:06 <sbp> [[[ 00:51:06 <sbp> document = string.replace(document, '\r\n', '\n') 00:51:06 <sbp> document = string.replace(document, '\r', '\n') 00:51:07 <sbp> ]]] 00:51:38 <sbp> document.replace('\r', '\n') # would have done it 00:52:01 <AaronSw> umm, i don't think so 00:52:08 <sbp> really? 00:52:19 <AaronSw> well, not by itself. 00:52:23 <sbp> well, document = ... 00:52:51 <AaronSw> you'd still need the '\r\n' line 00:53:00 <sbp> why? 00:53:12 <AaronSw> for platforms that use that as their line ending 00:53:18 <sbp> oh yeah, to reduce it down 00:53:23 <AaronSw> right 00:53:28 <sbp> Pff 00:53:39 <AaronSw> otherwise you'd get the annoying double-blanks you see quite a bit 00:54:02 <sbp> (which are, incedentally, O.K.) 00:54:10 <AaronSw> i can't stand them 00:54:28 <sbp> well, this is in the NTriples parser, so the string doesn't get output'd 00:54:51 <AaronSw> oh 00:54:56 <AaronSw> -- 00:54:57 <AaronSw> What languages is the Plex going to be programmed in? 00:54:58 <AaronSw> We're currently programming in Python, but we'll probably use C modules and perhaps have some code in C for speed. 00:54:58 <AaronSw> How is it going to be shipped - as code to run, or a packaged binary, or a choice? 00:54:58 <AaronSw> On most platforms we'll have compiled versions of the C code with a copy of the Python code that you can just run. Of course all source code wil be available. 00:55:00 <AaronSw> -- 00:55:27 <AaronSw> Why SHA5**? 00:55:45 <AaronSw> There are very few easy to get SHA512 implementations lying about. Do the Plex developers intend to create their own implementation, or attempt to package one up? 00:55:46 <AaronSw> See above. 00:55:56 <AaronSw> Especially the bit about C code. 00:56:44 <sbp> SHA5**: easier to type. Heh, I dunno. Just making the world a more magical place, I suppose 00:57:11 <sbp> I could do SHA*1*, but it's not so easy to type 00:57:33 <sbp> and people won't have the feign test clue what I'm barfing on about 00:58:07 <AaronSw> heh: feighn test 00:58:10 <sbp> admittedly, it will therefore make little difference... 00:58:23 <sbp> :-) 00:58:46 <wmf> * wmf starts a rumor that plex is using SHA517 00:58:53 <sbp> heh, heh 00:58:53 <AaronSw> Heh, heh, heh. 01:00:19 <wmf> it'll be totally incompatible with everything else! 01:00:50 <AaronSw> That's sort of a good thing, since it won't break anyone else who requires hashes to be one-way. ;-) 01:04:06 <AaronSw> Hmm, seems sort of odd that Raph's remailer list is at sendfakemail.com 01:05:25 <wmf> where? 01:05:48 <AaronSw> - http://www.sendfakemail.com/~raph/remailer-list.html 01:06:20 <wmf> that is odd 01:06:44 <AaronSw> it's got good google power too 01:08:11 <AaronSw> anyone have a lay-person's description of the anonymous remailer network? 01:08:47 <sbp> argh 01:08:47 <AaronSw> ah, here we go: http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html 01:09:09 <sbp> s/else: self.ruid = ruid.RUID()/else: self.uri = 'urn:x-ruid:'+ruid.RUID()/ 01:09:29 <AaronSw> no... 01:09:35 <AaronSw> that might cause problems 01:10:08 <sbp> why? 01:10:40 <AaronSw> because people will want their anon-nodes back (and still anonymous) 01:11:44 <sbp> *grumble* 01:11:45 <AaronSw> I wish someone would implement DC-nets already. 01:11:52 <sbp> .google DC-nets 01:11:53 <xena> DC-nets: http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO63766,00.html 01:11:56 <AaronSw> what's that grumble about? anon nodes? 01:12:04 <AaronSw> DC: dining cryptographers 01:12:09 <sbp> Mmmhmm :-) 01:12:20 <AaronSw> Don't you know that story? 01:12:37 <sbp> Nope 01:12:45 <AaronSw> Ooh, cool. I love this story. 01:12:54 <AaronSw> So a bunch of cryptographers go out for dinner. 01:12:59 <sbp> oh crap, what have I done? 01:13:03 <sbp> carry on... 01:13:06 <AaronSw> They have a nice meal, and at the end the waiter announces that it's already been paid for. 01:13:17 <AaronSw> So the cyrptographers wonder if it was one of them, or the NSA who paid for it. 01:13:46 <AaronSw> So they all take out a coin, and flip it, showing only the person on their left the result. 01:14:14 <AaronSw> Then everyone XORs the two coins they can see. 01:14:18 <AaronSw> Do you know how XOR works? 01:14:29 <sbp> exclusive OR: no 01:14:37 <sbp> heh, heh, carry on 01:14:49 <AaronSw> If the two bits are the same you get a 0, if they're different you get a 1. 01:15:01 <AaronSw> so then they add up all the XORed bits. 01:15:25 <AaronSw> unless you paid for the meal, in which case you report the opposite bit. 01:15:38 <AaronSw> reverse the order of those last two lines 01:15:43 <sbp> oh man 01:15:46 <wmf> I think it should be called Drinking Cryptographers, but that's neither here nor there 01:16:10 <AaronSw> if the sum of the bits is even, it was the NSA, otherwise it was one of the cyrptographers. 01:16:23 <sbp> O.K. 01:16:47 <AaronSw> this is completely anonymous -- it works even with two people and someone observing the bits folks called out. 01:17:13 <AaronSw> (obviously with two people they know who's speaking but the observer doesn't) 01:17:16 <sbp> oh man, you mean I watched that whole story, and there's no joke at the end of it? Well thanks - I just wasted five minutes! 01:17:39 <AaronSw> Heh. 01:17:55 <AaronSw> wmf, perhaps cryptographers can't come up with secure systems while drunk 01:18:13 <sbp> O.K., all that's good, but where would you like this implemented? Scenario? 01:18:24 <sbp> I mean, a better scenario then "who paid for dinner?" 01:18:40 <AaronSw> well, anywhere you want anonymous communication... the who paid for dinner question can be seen as one bit -- repeat the process for each bit 01:18:57 <AaronSw> there are more complexities for dealing with noise and two people talking at once, of course 01:21:49 <AaronSw> -- 01:21:51 <AaronSw> **How does the Plex work? 01:21:51 <AaronSw> * Can I simply retrieve files by their hash/URI, and how does this work in general? 01:21:52 <AaronSw> The Plex is built upon a hash-to-plaintext system which will allow you to retrieve files, but this is not the Plex's main usage. Instead, the Plex will allow you to retrieve all sorts of information about a URI. One type of information, of course, is a representation of the URI, like what you might get if you typed that URI into a Web browser. 01:21:52 <AaronSw> * How does it remain anonymous? 01:21:53 <AaronSw> We plan to use a system similar to that of the <a href="http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html">anonymous remailer network</a> currently in existence, with a number of modifications. 01:22:13 <AaronSw> -- 01:22:26 <sbp> ah, hence the research 01:22:40 <AaronSw> Yep. 01:23:25 <sbp> What's up with RDF API? Are you binning it, or what? 01:23:43 <AaronSw> No, it's going to be the way app developers talk to the Plex. 01:23:53 <sbp> Through RDF API? 01:24:02 <AaronSw> Yeah, and perhaps some abstraction layers above it. 01:24:07 <sbp> will Python be fast enough? 01:24:09 <AaronSw> Like SPARTA. 01:24:16 <AaronSw> For most things. 01:24:19 <sbp> oh, mnot's thing? 01:24:30 <AaronSw> yeah -- altho i hope to change it quite a bit 01:24:40 <sbp> No updates for a long while 01:25:36 <AaronSw> Yeah, I really want to work on it, but I've been sort of busy... Primer, UK, Blogspace, PyChord. 01:25:59 <sbp> Oh yeah, how's PyChord coming along? And PyBlogspace? 01:26:23 <AaronSw> PyChord is coming along pretty well. PyBlogspace is going more slowly. 01:26:33 <AaronSw> I really need a server system hooked up to it. 01:29:40 <tav`> fear the just gods, and think of scylla's fate! 01:29:54 <tav`> chang'd to a bird, and sent to flit in air 01:30:10 <tav`> she dearly pays for nisus' injur'd hair! 01:30:46 <AaronSw> tav, d'ya have a little gift economy site set up where folks can send the plex developers money. 01:30:49 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m906-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:31:08 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m906-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:31:20 <AaronSw> Do you have a description of the gift economy on the Web? 01:32:00 <tav`> not one i've written, no 01:32:19 <AaronSw> i don't care who wrote it 01:33:13 <AaronSw> I think I'll add "Plex Developers" to fairtunes 01:33:22 <tav`> hmz, no 01:33:31 <AaronSw> to which? 01:33:36 <tav`> fairtunes 01:34:29 <AaronSw> -- 01:34:30 <AaronSw> * Are you expecting all internet/Web related apps. to be be based on Plex technologies in the future? 01:34:31 <AaronSw> Perhaps not all, but we hope for a lot of Web content to be available on the Plex, and encourage app builders who want decentralized storage and query to consider the Plex for their app. We feel that the technology provided by the Plex will be useful to many, and open up a lot of new possibilities for applications. 01:34:31 <AaronSw> * What is there to stop any other group of people designing a rival Plex? What would happen if they did? 01:34:32 <AaronSw> There's no technical issue stopping them, but clearly everyone will benefit if the networks are merged into one. It's the same reason no one has set up a "rival" Internet: there's really not a lot of point in cutting yourself off from everyone else. 01:34:33 <AaronSw> -- 01:35:22 <AaronSw> s/point in/benefit from/ 01:35:38 <tav`> what's that in reply to? 01:36:05 <AaronSw> sbp's questions 01:37:12 <tav`> there is no internet. there is only the plex 01:38:19 <AaronSw> * AaronSw notes not to let tav do PR 01:39:01 <tav`> well, that 2nd answer is just pussyfooting around 01:39:11 <AaronSw> What should I say? 01:39:48 <tav`> if we were talking to the public, then, yes, that, but to answer sbp.... we can assimilate 01:40:07 <AaronSw> Oh, yeah, i was writing for the public 01:40:18 <AaronSw> sbp, if someone starts a rival plex, tav will eat them 01:40:26 <tav`> heh 01:41:53 <AaronSw> -- 01:41:55 <AaronSw> * How many people are currently working on the Plex project? When can I expect to install some working code? 01:41:55 <AaronSw> Right now we have a handful of people working on the project. You're certainly welcome to help out. We should have a very rough version out by the beginning of February. 01:41:56 <AaronSw> * Will data ever be deleted from the Plex? 01:41:57 <AaronSw> Each Plex node makes decisions about what data to delete based on who entered the data, how much the node trusts them and how much data they are currently storing on the Plex. 01:41:58 <AaronSw> -- 01:46:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw buys plexnow.com 01:47:37 <wmf> PlexNow!(TM) 01:47:59 <AaronSw> Heh, now I just need to buy goplex and ilovetheplex 01:48:47 <tav`> hmz 01:48:48 <wmf> * wmf starts plexlog.editthispage.com 01:48:52 <AaronSw> heh heh heh 01:49:17 <AaronSw> odd: Invalid path: /Applications/AppleWorks 6/AppleWorks 6.app/Contents/MacOS/AppleWorks 6 01:49:23 <AaronSw> from console.log 01:50:24 <AaronSw> weird. i even get that error when i double click on that file 01:51:27 <AaronSw> I think i'm going to point users to plexnow and have plexdev be for develoeprs 01:53:35 <tav`> hmz 01:53:43 <tav`> ehm 01:53:52 <tav`> don't do that 01:53:56 <AaronSw> why not? 01:54:07 <tav`> plexnames 01:54:18 <AaronSw> huh? 01:54:55 <tav`> we are replacing the current structure here 01:55:19 <AaronSw> i don't follow 01:55:53 <tav`> it's like steve jobs going and buying a CRT 01:56:17 <AaronSw> buying a domain name, you mean? 01:56:20 <tav`> yes 01:56:41 <tav`> we should get rid of the domain names 01:56:45 <tav`> not buy more 01:57:13 <AaronSw> I see your point, but I don't think it's appropriate here. Bootstrapping the Plex is going to be really important, and I think doing a little bit more to make that easier is a good idea. 02:01:23 <wmf> uh oh, I am out of swap 02:01:39 <AaronSw> ouch... on OS X? 02:01:43 <wmf> yeah 02:03:33 <wmf> it looks OK now; maybe I won't have to reboot 02:05:55 <AaronSw> That reminds me: I'm getting a new server, and I want to know if I should have a swap partition, and if so, how large? 02:06:58 <wmf> yes 02:07:23 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m915-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:07:34 <wmf> I'm not sure about the size 02:07:42 <wmf> what kind of machine are you getting? 02:07:44 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m915-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:08:13 <AaronSw> 1 Ghz P3, 1 GB RAM, 40 GB disk 02:09:39 <wmf> nice 02:10:03 <AaronSw> yeah, it was surprisingly cheap 02:10:23 <AaronSw> only $700 or so 02:11:01 <wmf> Intel probably can't give away 1GHz CPUs fast enough :-) 02:11:12 <AaronSw> heh, heh 02:12:00 <wmf> after all, who would settle for a measly 7932fps when you could have 50483fps? 02:12:48 <AaronSw> Heh, exactly. 02:13:06 <AaronSw> Especially since it's so important when, while... you know... um... 02:13:13 <AaronSw> running windows xp 02:38:13 <AaronSw> <sbp> Surely not? Could I install BeOS and have it running on a WinMe computer? 02:38:19 <AaronSw> Yes, it's true -- it's as easy as it sounds. 02:38:37 <AaronSw> It's quite something -- they did a very nice job. 02:39:46 <AaronSw> ooh, Scot Hacker's sequel: http://www.birdhouse.org/macos/beos_osx/redux.html 02:39:56 <AaronSw> Reactions to "Tales of a BeOS Refugee" 02:40:55 <wmf> yeah, he has watered down most of his arguments to be little more than nitpicks 02:42:42 <sbp> Trouble is, the BeOS download is about 45MB, and I can't find that dang thing. Plus, Palm bought BeOS, so I doubt there's going to be any support - BeOS down the drain? 02:43:01 <sbp> Nice to see that you're still going through my collection from yesterday :-) 02:43:08 <AaronSw> How often do you call Microsoft Support? 02:43:18 <sbp> Hmm... good point 02:43:27 <sbp> Point me to the download! 02:43:27 <wmf> I don't think Be provided support even when they were in business 02:44:19 <AaronSw> Be's site is down? 02:45:23 <AaronSw> how about http://instructionaltechnology.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$121 02:47:05 <sbp> Have you tried Be's site? 02:47:13 <AaronSw> yeah 02:47:15 <sbp> "To our valued shareholders, partners, and customers" 02:47:33 <AaronSw> i know 02:48:16 <AaronSw> however ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/os/BeOS/beos/ looks good 02:49:32 <sbp> and ftp://www.beforever.com/pub/beforever/freebe/ 02:50:01 <sbp> O.K. 02:50:09 <AaronSw> -- 02:50:11 <AaronSw> * What happens if someone tries to flood the network - is the Plex resistant to attacks? 02:50:12 <AaronSw> We attempt to prevent users from flooding the network by making them pay in <a href="http://www.cypherspace.org/~adam/hashcash/">hash cash</a> -- essentially a way form of payment in CPU cycles. The "price" goes up as the server runs out of space. 02:50:12 <AaronSw> We've worked on a number of solutions like this one to attacks on the Plex. Of course I'm sure that users will come up with more, and we'll do our best to respond to them as they come up. 02:50:13 <AaronSw> * How much will 'Plex cost me? Seriously now. 02:50:13 <AaronSw> The Plex is absolutely free. Honest. All you need is a computer, some disk space and an Internet connection. The project is funded by the gift economy -- essentially your contributions. Feel free to <a href="@@">make a donation</a>. 02:50:17 <AaronSw> -- 02:50:47 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m973-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:51:08 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m973-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:51:10 <AaronSw> And that's all the questions. And it's not even tomorrow! 02:51:30 <sbp> ooh, did I miss it? 02:51:51 <AaronSw> I guess so. 02:52:38 <sbp> I like the link to "@@" 02:53:02 <AaronSw> :-) 03:02:46 <AaronSw> Ooh, I didn't know about Command-Option clicking the Doc. 03:02:48 <AaronSw> err Dock 03:03:14 <wmf> cool 03:04:38 <AaronSw> sbp, i've had that FS idea for a long time... i wonder how it'd be in real life 03:04:50 <sbp> FS idea? 03:05:10 <AaronSw> filesystem thingy 03:05:25 <sbp> ah, right. Yeah, it would be neat to implement it 03:05:31 <wmf> what idea? 03:05:42 <AaronSw> having a filesystem be a big RDF database 03:05:49 <wmf> ah 03:06:10 <AaronSw> you'd get all the power of Be metadata and more! 03:06:17 <AaronSw> plus built-in CVS archives 03:06:30 <sbp> and Plex compatability 03:06:39 <sbp> sorry, *ultimate* Plex compatability 03:06:48 <AaronSw> Yeah: Plex Everywhere. 03:07:20 <sbp> I'm not sure how the CVS would work - you might want to thread the resources. Oh, TimBL published that CVS flow schema, somewhere. doc.n3 03:08:41 <AaronSw> Ah, the LISP thing came from How To Become A Hacker. 03:09:21 <AaronSw> I hear SICP is good for that. 03:09:36 <AaronSw> wmf, did you do SICP at UT-Austin? 03:10:34 <wmf> nope, we used Haskell 03:10:52 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wrinkles nose 03:10:53 <AaronSw> ;-) 03:11:01 <wmf> Haskell is OK 03:11:18 <AaronSw> I hear it's pretty cool. 03:11:24 <AaronSw> OmniWeb: "To pay, or not to pay? That is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous monopolies, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them?" 03:11:33 <AaronSw> I like how you can copy-and-paste from dialog boxes. 03:11:41 <wmf> yeah, that's a funny one 03:12:15 <wmf> I'm not going to pay for OmniWeb until it can do CSS properly 03:12:30 <AaronSw> i dunno - i might just not buy omniweb so i can keep reading he funny sayings. ;-) 03:12:41 <AaronSw> Yeah, no CSS is a killer. 03:12:43 <wmf> I think I've seen them all already 03:12:54 <AaronSw> Don't they add more with new versions? 03:13:01 <wmf> maybe 03:13:42 <sbp> No CSS? I laugh at it 03:14:10 <AaronSw> Heh, well it's really bare-bones CSS. 03:14:41 <wmf> they're busy adding javascript bug-compatibility, but they can't support CSS fully :-( 03:14:53 <sbp> ugh, that's terrible 03:14:56 <AaronSw> Well they stole the JS from someone else. 03:15:00 <sbp> and now they're asking you to pay for it? 03:15:05 <sbp> run, run away! 03:15:21 <sbp> run, don't walk/hop/skip 03:15:32 <wmf> using mozilla's js engine is probably a good idea, but still 03:15:52 <sbp> if they can steal a JS engine, they can surely steal a CSS rendering engine? 03:18:52 <AaronSw> deltab asks if Amaya has http auth logout 03:19:00 <AaronSw> i didn't know such a thing existed. does links support it? 03:19:21 <AaronSw> how can you logout of a state less protocol? 03:19:30 <sbp> heh: """stop wondering about where you want to go today, and get ready to Be.""" - http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=269 03:19:42 <sbp> auth logout? I presume you mean just wiping the password cache 03:21:12 <sbp> heh, BeOS is quite extensible too: """The 64-bit journal file system enables you to plug a hard disk that's as large 68 million terabytes.""" - http://web.archive.org/web/20011223062345/www.review-zone.com/software/reviews/winme_vs_beos/page8.shtml 03:21:54 <AaronSw> Hmm, why isn't the Radio UserLand small icon as pretty as the big dock one 03:23:36 <AaronSw> Radio: "Your new website's URL is http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/." 03:24:38 <AaronSw> I'm glad UserLand finally learned about primary keys. 03:25:09 <wmf> I find it ugly 03:25:30 <AaronSw> The URLs are ugly, but the functionality is not. 03:26:07 <AaronSw> I guess they needed emails to be the primary key because of the object database... that sorta makes sense. 03:27:23 <AaronSw> Heh, good way to put stuff at the top of the UserLand charts: make it a default subscription. 03:27:30 <wmf> indeed 03:27:44 <wmf> gee, look how many people read scripting news! 03:28:06 <AaronSw> 197 -- wowie! 03:28:41 <AaronSw> only 55 HTP readers. 03:29:04 <sbp> ooh, you can pause file moves in BeOS 03:29:06 <AaronSw> You should complain: perhaps your Scripting News Award can be useful here. 03:29:57 <AaronSw> Radio really slwos down your machine, doesn't it... 03:30:08 <wmf> not that I've noticed 03:31:06 <AaronSw> hmm.. maybe it's justi'm hitting loads of 3.1 with it taking up about 30% 03:34:57 <sbp> Hmm... the problem with BeOS is that it probably won't support my internal modem 03:35:44 <sbp> multiple desktops? Ooh 03:36:26 <AaronSw> Yeah, that's something I wish OS X had. 03:36:33 <AaronSw> I also really want multiple input devices. 03:36:43 <wmf> why? 03:36:49 <AaronSw> to which? 03:36:57 <wmf> multiple input devices 03:37:22 <AaronSw> it's for when the kids insist on using the machine to check something on the web 03:37:35 <AaronSw> i want to keep doing my work, and let them do theirs on the other monitor 03:37:40 <wmf> so you want multiconsole 03:37:58 <wmf> I don't know why nobody does that 03:38:20 <AaronSw> I guess multiconsole would work 03:38:28 <AaronSw> how would one do it? 03:39:00 <wmf> run multiple window servers 03:39:18 <AaronSw> is that possible on OS X? 03:39:22 <wmf> no 03:43:07 <AaronSw> ugh: all radio instances are set by default to hit at the top of the hour. 03:43:11 <AaronSw> there goes my server. 03:43:30 <wmf> yeah, it should be random 03:43:40 <wmf> maybe you can suggest it to userland? 03:44:00 <AaronSw> yeah, i think i'll do that. 03:44:33 <AaronSw> * AaronSw resists the temptation to ask for rss 1.0 support <grin class="evil" /> 03:44:44 <wmf> ahem 03:46:47 <sbp> do it! 03:49:12 <AaronSw> wacky: I keep getting these big black splotches appear when i compose email in Entourage. 03:49:32 <sbp> Ugh, aren't download status timers meant to go down rather than up? This one just keeps consistently rising, at about the same speed as it should be falling 03:49:42 <AaronSw> Heh, heh! 03:49:59 <AaronSw> like the time necessary or the percent downloaded? 03:50:16 <sbp> time remaining 03:50:36 <sbp> it started out at two-hours and bit, it's now over three 03:50:38 <wmf> the download twilight zone 03:50:38 <AaronSw> I guess your speed must be dropping then. 03:50:44 <sbp> yeah 03:51:39 <sbp> there's no way I'm going to get this before m connection folds. I should have used some sort of erotic download application that saves the chunk downloaded so far. As it is, IE does that *some* of the time, but not always 03:52:29 <wmf> AaronSw: do you ever have the problem where the front window is not the same as the focused window under OS X? 03:52:38 <AaronSw> yep, all the tiem 03:52:40 <AaronSw> err time 03:52:57 <wmf> ok, at least I'm not the only one 03:53:01 <AaronSw> sbp, why is that so erotic? 03:53:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw ducks 03:53:12 <sbp> erotic? 03:53:20 <AaronSw> "some sort of erotic download application" 03:53:26 <sbp> isn't that patently obvious? 03:53:51 <AaronSw> umm, no 03:54:19 <AaronSw> You should use GetRight or something. 03:54:26 <sbp> I dunno. I was going to type "exotic", but went for the "r" instead. Almost as I typed it, I decided that it would be funnier to leave it in. I could have given it a little [sic], but it would have ruined the joke 03:55:12 <sbp> Months of talking to Morbus is starting to affect me 03:55:17 <wmf> sbp is just looking for some hot download action 03:55:28 <sbp> yeah, baby! 03:57:08 <AaronSw> I love this line: 03:57:13 <AaronSw> Dave Winer: "Man. It was like a drunken party with crazy girls and lots of booze and hard drugs." 03:57:36 <AaronSw> Radio UserLand: Just Like Legalized Drugs 03:57:56 <sbp> What was that Winer " in reference to? 03:58:09 <AaronSw> The Radio UserLand rollout last night. 03:58:20 <AaronSw> http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/01/12#l8939915193185aa2f1f21c07a355a3bc 03:58:45 <sbp> Argh, I can't follow links - you should know that! I'm downloading an OS 03:59:02 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:59:21 <AaronSw> Here it is in ASCII: 03:59:24 <AaronSw> """ 03:59:26 <AaronSw> Wow. What was that. Some kind of truck drove through our little world last night. You should have seen Weblogs.Com. Man. It was like a drunken party with crazy girls and lots of booze and hard drugs. A new high-water mark -- on a Friday night! I've never had a product ship like this. What a trip. I hope it never returns to normal. We turned a corner. A big one. We spent a lot of long days and nights preparing for it. There were times when I thought we wo 03:59:27 <AaronSw> al. 80 percent of the people get to first-post in five minutes or less. Yes, of course there were problems, and we still have a lot more we want to do with this software, there are lots of tools and tutorials to write, lots more bugs to fix. It's a big piece of software, almost fourteen years of code under the browser interface. Yes it mostly works. Inch by inch. Thank you Murphy. I'm not worthy I'm not worthy.  03:59:32 <AaronSw> As I revie 03:59:32 <AaronSw> """ 03:59:59 <sbp> Who's this Murphy guy that everyone keeps talking about? 04:00:09 <sbp> * sbp did follow the link, BTW 04:00:35 <AaronSw> Murphy is the guy that makes everything go wrong for Dave. 04:00:37 <sbp> who stole DanC, and what have they done with him? 04:00:40 <sbp> <DanC> ok, this is wicked cool. http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/newimac_intro_320.html 04:01:04 <sbp> and yes, I know that stealing humans is called kidnapping 04:06:06 <sbp> I wonder if Murphy's Law ever goes wrong? 04:06:25 <AaronSw> Yeah, whenever something that can go wrong goes right. 04:06:52 <AaronSw> that way it's always right 04:06:58 <sbp> like Murphy's Law itself, excluding that exception 04:07:30 <sbp> The answer I was looking for: "Mwahahaha!" 04:08:17 <AaronSw> Cool! There's an MIT Assassins Guild. 04:08:28 <sbp> spew text 04:10:20 <sbp> Um... hello? 04:10:25 <AaronSw> eh? 04:10:42 <sbp> could you at least give us... oh nuts, I'll do it myself 04:10:48 <AaronSw> Wow, Radio was really slowing down my system. I quit it and everything sped up again. 04:10:49 <sbp> .google "MIT Assassins Guild" 04:10:50 <xena> "MIT Assassins Guild": http://www.mit.edu/activities/assassin 04:10:57 <sbp> .http://www.mit.edu/activities/assassin 04:10:59 <xena> MIT Assassins' Guild Home Page Everything You've Ever Wanted To Know About the Assassins' Guild (but were afraid to ask for fear of being shot with a disc gun) What Do We Do? The MIT Assassins' Guild runs a number of real-time real-space role playing games each year. We also run Patrol, a more action-packed game, every week. For more information, you can check out our blurb, or read about some 04:10:59 <xena> past games. When Do We Do It? Patrol runs every Saturday night from 8 to 11 in Building 36. The longer games run whenever there are games written and people to play them -- usually one or two per semester and one over IAP. (For more info, look at the list of scheduled games.) Who's In Charge Here? The officers of the Assassins' guild are known collectively as the High Council. Patrol is run by 04:11:01 <xena> .. a very large amount of text. 04:11:50 <sbp> Ah, information at one's fingertips 04:13:18 <sbp> why is it that xena can spew text all over the channel's floor, but when spankybot did it, it got banned? 04:13:45 <AaronSw> xena stops after two things. 04:14:03 <AaronSw> and no one is supposed to know about that feature. 04:14:04 <sbp> so did spankybot - it judged it by character length 04:14:19 <AaronSw> spankybot was just asking for it: look at its nick! 04:14:28 <sbp> Heh, well I picked it up from someone^H^H^Hwhere 04:14:37 <sbp> ah, but it had a built in spank feature 04:14:42 <sbp> you'd do:- 04:14:45 <sbp> * sbp spanks spankybot 04:14:51 <sbp> and spankybot would go 04:14:57 <sbp> <spankybot> ow! 04:15:26 <AaronSw> and then it would like knock into xena and xena would trigger it to find a uri and then it would chump it... 04:15:54 <sbp> Huh? Give me a full transcript of that scenario 04:16:42 <AaronSw> <spankybot> .time 04:16:43 <AaronSw> <xena> 2001-10-02 11:33 PM 04:16:43 <AaronSw> <spankybot> 11:33 looks like a URI 04:16:43 <AaronSw> <chumpster> A: 11:33 from spankybot 04:17:03 <sbp> heh, heh, heh! 04:17:27 <sbp> what was that funny thing that it did? 04:17:38 <sbp> .google spankybot 04:17:39 <xena> spankybot: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-11-01.html 04:18:53 <sbp> heh:- 04:18:56 <sbp> [[[ 04:18:56 <sbp> 04:11:15 <spankybot> .time UTC 04:18:56 <sbp> 04:11:15 <xena> Nov. 1, 2001 4:12 am Universal 04:18:56 <sbp> 04:11:16 <spankybot> is Nov. 1, 2001 4:12 a URI? 04:18:56 <sbp> 04:11:24 <AaronSw> aaah! 04:18:56 <sbp> 04:11:27 <Morbus> hehe 04:18:58 <sbp> 04:11:28 <AaronSw> kill it! 04:19:00 <sbp> 04:11:31 <sbp> lol! 04:19:02 <sbp> ]]] 04:19:44 <AaronSw> Tonight's flick: Regular Expressions From Hell! 04:21:41 <sbp> still having problems? 04:21:56 <AaronSw> with what? 04:22:13 <sbp> Small bavarian goat hearding tools 04:22:16 <sbp> RegExps! 04:22:25 <AaronSw> When was I using regexps? 04:22:46 <AaronSw> I was making fun of whatever stupid regexp thought "Nov. 1, 2001 4:12" might be a URI. 04:22:47 <sbp> s/hearding/herding/ 04:23:01 <sbp> oh, right. Yeah, that was pretty funny 04:24:14 <sbp> it was probably r'([^:]+:[^ ]+)' or somesuch 04:24:47 <AaronSw> more like r':' 04:24:58 <AaronSw> ;-) 04:29:36 <BenSw> BenSw is now known as BenSw|away 04:30:39 <sbp> Aaron: MacOS vs. BeOS 04:31:02 <AaronSw> Tough decision... 04:31:41 <AaronSw> I might go with BeOS if it was being actively developed. 04:32:27 <sbp> If you were stranded on a computer, and you could have only 3 programs, what would they be? Hmm... no, too easy to cheat 04:33:44 <sbp> you'd only need cURL :-) 04:33:52 <sbp> Then again, that would assume that all of the programs that cURL relies upon are there. You need programs to run an OS... 04:34:19 <AaronSw> eh, you only need telnet 04:34:33 <sbp> yeah, or that 04:34:48 <sbp> Mmmkay, three favourite programs or packages, then 04:36:57 <AaronSw> E:: 04:36:57 <chumpster> http://plexdev.org/ 04:36:58 <chumpster> Plex 04:36:59 <chumpster> (sbp) """The Plex is a decentralized network for sharing data.""" So, that means "P2P app." 04:37:00 <chumpster> (sbp) """The Plex provides a simple to use database system for your applications. Plex-based applications can easily be used anonymously, securely, quickly, and easily. By providing a shared storage system the Plex can integrate protocols like email, newsgroups and the Web into a single system.""" 04:37:10 <AaronSw> E::Check out the new [Plex FAQ|http://plexdev.org/faq] for more info. 04:37:15 <chumpster> commented item E 04:38:27 <AaronSw> whats the attribute on <acronym>? title? 04:38:42 <AaronSw> .dtrt html:acronym 04:38:45 <xena> html:acronym: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/text.html#edef-ACRONYM 04:39:14 <AaronSw> guess so 04:39:22 <sbp> yep 04:39:49 <deltab> expression itself, as it would normally appear in running text. The title 04:39:49 <deltab> attribute of these elements may be used to provide the full or expanded 04:39:49 <deltab> form of the expression. 04:40:04 <sbp> * sbp checks out the new http://plexdev.org/faq for more info. 04:41:08 <sbp> s/upon it being install/upon it being installed/ 04:41:50 <sbp> why is "What is there to stop any other group of people designing a rival Plex? What would happen if they did?" unanswered? 04:42:25 <AaronSw> hmm 04:43:43 <AaronSw> oops -- broken tag 04:44:11 <AaronSw> fixed 04:44:29 <AaronSw> Feel free to create a nice little TOC for my FAQ, sbp. 04:46:15 <AaronSw> tav` - can you _please_ fix that doctype thing? 04:47:27 <deltab> I think the cookies are broken too 04:47:47 <AaronSw> wow, nice! dave took my request to the team 04:48:04 <AaronSw> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-dev/message/4033 04:49:36 <sbp> but aren't you 15 now? 04:49:51 <AaronSw> Shhh! 04:50:32 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m972-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 04:50:50 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m972-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:51:12 <sbp> Phew, it resumed the download 04:51:15 <sbp> <sbp> but aren't you 15 now? 04:51:26 <AaronSw> Shhh! 04:51:31 <sbp> and he can't spell your name, either. Oh well 04:51:43 <wmf> it's already implemented: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-userland/message/11014 04:51:48 <sbp> Heh, heh. The little whiz-kid is growing up. You'll be an adult soon! You poor sucker 04:52:05 <AaronSw> Awesome! 04:52:17 <AaronSw> (to implementing it) 04:53:06 <sbp> * sbp guessed 04:53:22 <sbp> that is neat - good turn-around time 04:55:26 <wmf> damn, I got an interstitial on egroups! 04:56:08 <AaronSw> Yeah, I get those a lot. 04:56:18 <sbp> logster, grep damn.*server 04:56:28 <logster> I'm logging. I found 5 answers for 'damn.*server' (showing 0...4) 04:56:29 <logster> 0) 2002-01-13 04:56:18 <sbp> logster, grep damn.*server 04:56:30 <logster> 1) 2002-01-06 23:04:42 <sbp> Aargh, the logs are fucked again. Aaron, sort your damn server out! 04:56:31 <logster> 2) 2001-10-12 03:38:58 <Morbus> can't see my own damn webserver 04:56:32 <logster> 3) 2001-09-21 21:48:02 <tav> so it can't be a damn server split 04:56:33 <logster> 4) 2001-09-21 04:52:20 <BadMan> tired of these damn IIS nimda infected servers hitting my apache 04:57:14 <sbp> was the top of the hour bug responsible for that? 04:57:32 <AaronSw> yeah, sure looks like it 04:57:36 <sbp> Hmm... you should add "PlexPublishing" to http://plexdev.org/applications 04:57:58 <sbp> So it was Winer's fault! I knew it all along 04:58:43 <AaronSw> It seems just about every aggregator does it on the hour. 04:59:01 <wmf> so you just need to hunt down every one of them :-) 04:59:28 <AaronSw> too bad this update doesn't work retroactively 04:59:33 <sbp> Let's blame Morbus 05:00:53 <AaronSw> Yeah, Morbus needs to add this feature. 05:01:10 <sbp> Garfle, Plex shows that the best applications are only going to come when there is a lot of data available to be processed, and a lot of rules languages etc. for doing it 05:01:28 <AaronSw> heh: "$40...is anybody else amazed at this? Is it this cheap so we won't gripe about little things?" 05:01:28 <AaronSw> No, that's called "open source". ;-) 05:01:47 <sbp> heh, heh 05:01:52 <sbp> cite? 05:02:04 <AaronSw> - http://radio.weblogs.com/0100156/2002/01/11.html#a4 05:03:29 <AaronSw> this is an interesting bug: 05:03:30 <AaronSw> .http://1705.net./ 05:03:32 <xena> easyDNS: We can't find 1705.net.. You can try going to net. instead. For more information on easyDNS, contact us at mailto: or visit our website at www.easydns.com 05:03:48 <sbp> Hmm... I wonder what BeOS' built-in browser is going to be like? 05:03:59 <sbp> heh, cool 05:04:03 <AaronSw> few people seem to know about the root . 05:04:57 <AaronSw> I sense a song: "For that, Radio 8.0 is my secret weapon! [...] Radio 8.0 gives me that power -- right on my desktop, every hour!" 05:05:01 <AaronSw> - http://radio.weblogs.com/0001009/stories/2002/01/09/radio80ItsMySecretWeapon.html 05:06:45 <sbp> you really should add more junk to the Plex applications page, A 05:07:57 <sbp> give people a decent overview to what the Plex can do - do for them, mainly. Stuff like the SpamPlex app. - that's a good examples 05:08:03 <sbp> s/exmaples/example/ 05:09:09 <AaronSw> heh!: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100012/stories/2002/01/11/childrenShouldNotHaveToys.html 05:09:43 <sbp> oh, I think somebody showed me that picture 05:10:41 <sbp> nope, it was different 05:10:44 <sbp> * sbp searches 05:11:44 <AaronSw> Ooh, UserLand is using DigitalRiver for purchases. 05:13:47 <sbp> sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 05:14:37 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m972-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:17:10 <sbp> damn, my IRC logs are corrupt, my history is useless 05:17:22 <sbp> working on computers is a battle sometimes 05:17:28 <sbp> can't wait for BeOS 05:17:44 <sbp> Although WinMe does work pretty well 05:17:53 <sbp> And then, of course, there's WinXP 05:18:07 <sbp> That was quite funny 05:18:38 <AaronSw> what's the full simpsons "nothing is what it seems" quote? 05:19:12 <AaronSw> maybe it's not from the simpsons 05:19:28 <sbp> Homer: Where people throw ducks at balloons, and nothing's the way that it seems 05:19:36 <AaronSw> Aha. 05:28:15 <AaronSw> Seems the Radio servers are a bit overwhelmed: "Can't upstream because "Can't read stream because the TCP connection was closed unexpectedly." 05:32:25 <sbp> A, could you partition the grep function on logster by year? 05:32:51 <AaronSw> What do I look like, a Perl programmer? 05:33:00 <sbp> I apologize 05:33:54 <AaronSw> Ugh, the Weblog didn't roll over again. 05:35:47 <sbp> good 05:35:56 <sbp> ah, you were wrong, you were wrong! 05:35:57 <sbp> [[[ 05:35:59 <sbp> 01:31:28 <Morbus> Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 05:35:59 <sbp> 01:32:16 <AaronSw> he'll come back. they always come back 05:36:03 <sbp> ]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-21.txt 05:36:13 <AaronSw> give it time 05:36:52 <sbp> Hmm... I was thinking about measuring the period by the clock rather than the calendar 05:37:42 <AaronSw> oh 05:38:24 <AaronSw> hmm, we didn't publish on 12-25, 12-26, or 12-37 of 2001. what happened there, do you think? 05:38:37 <sbp> 12-37? I should think not 05:39:06 <AaronSw> 12-27 rather 05:39:30 <sbp> You flew to England, I celebrated Christmas 05:40:44 <AaronSw> hmm, good point 05:41:13 <sbp> plus, you've always blogged a lot more than I have 05:41:59 <AaronSw> well i blogged all those days, it just didn't roll over. 05:42:12 <sbp> Oh... weird 05:43:48 <AaronSw> also 11-21 05:43:52 <AaronSw> not such a bad track record 05:44:19 <sbp> we deserve that GAL award 05:44:29 <AaronSw> GAL? 05:44:36 <sbp> .acronym GAL 05:44:38 <xena> GAL: Gallon, Galatians, Galena, AK, USA (Airport Code), Gallium Arsenide Laser, Gas Analysis Laboratory, Gate Array Logic, Generic Array Logic, George A. Lincoln (WWII General), Get A Life, Gimbal Angle Loss, Global Address List (Microsoft Exchange), Gradient Adaptive Lattice, Guardian ad Litem, Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory, Guinea Airways, Ltd. 05:44:55 <AaronSw> Get A Life? 05:45:02 <sbp> or Gay And Lesbian, yeah 05:45:16 <sbp> something like that 05:45:17 <AaronSw> That'd be GLTB or is it GLBT? 05:45:36 <sbp> I couldn't remember, so I just made one up :-) 05:45:48 <sbp> I hope we win that. We should have chumped more items 05:46:49 <sbp> ah, here's that picture: http://www.hyperorg.com/gifs/magicmarker.jpg 05:47:23 <AaronSw> lol! 05:48:20 <sbp> Who needs a coloring book? 05:49:22 <sbp> BeOS is 88% done... 05:51:16 <AaronSw> neat: http://www.hyperorg.com/misc/genalpha.html 05:53:41 <AaronSw> Now there's a question: "Is truth flat or bumpy?" - Deviant Logic 05:53:53 <sbp> Hmm... 05:54:07 <AaronSw> .time 05:54:07 <xena> 2002/01/13 05:55:45.7808 Universal 05:54:19 <AaronSw> I better be going to sleep... 05:55:15 <sbp> heh, heh 05:55:27 <sbp> .time somewhere in the Mid-West 05:55:28 <xena> error: Site Error occurred: KeyError 05:55:36 <AaronSw> cst 05:55:36 <sbp> .time CST 05:55:37 <xena> Jan. 12, 2002 11:57 pm US/Central 05:56:03 <AaronSw> Hmm: *** YourBot (~youremail@89.137.252.64.snet.net) has joined the channel 05:56:03 <AaronSw> - #rdfig 05:56:13 <sbp> that's quite scary really - you're six hours behind, but I go to bed later. Then again, it is for BeOS :-) 05:56:18 <sbp> yeah, I noticed that... 05:57:02 <sbp> the Weblog automatically rolls over on weekends, BTW 05:57:30 <AaronSw> what do you mean by that? 05:58:16 <sbp> it keeps track of Sat's events, and displays them on Sun 05:58:20 <sbp> and possibly Mon 05:58:28 <AaronSw> I think it's a bug. 05:58:33 <sbp> I've noticed the bahaviour on the #rdfig Weblog for quite some time 05:58:47 <sbp> no, I think it's a feature - because people chump less at weekends, supposedly 05:58:47 <AaronSw> I don't think it's specifically weekends. 05:59:06 <AaronSw> I looked in the code and I didn't see it. 05:59:08 <sbp> who on #rdfig has a snet address? 05:59:35 <AaronSw> It seems to happen if you comment on something from yesterday after midnight. 05:59:38 <sbp> must be a bug, then 05:59:44 <sbp> ah 05:59:46 <AaronSw> before chumping something new or changing the topic 05:59:59 <sbp> it's quite useful though, IMO 06:00:05 <AaronSw> Yeah, it's cool. 06:00:19 <AaronSw> Heh: quacken 06:00:27 <sbp> heh, yeah 06:02:07 <sbp> how many hits is the Weblog getting lately? 06:02:16 <AaronSw> I wonder why my client doesn't do WALLOPS 06:02:46 <sbp> "/mose AaronSw +w" doesn't work? 06:02:59 <AaronSw> it works, but i never get any messages. 06:03:07 <sbp> Same here 06:04:08 <sbp> ooh, could you put site-statistics on the Web? 06:04:18 <AaronSw> when spam is sent with subjects like "Free software" you know you're in trouble 06:04:32 <sbp> yeah... 06:05:32 <AaronSw> weblog got 27 hits today 06:06:02 <AaronSw> 674 since the 9th. 06:06:54 <sbp> Hmm... so-so 06:07:11 <sbp> ooh! about a minute to go on BeOS 06:07:56 <AaronSw> http://www.leatheregg.com/bloggercode/ 06:08:03 <sbp> done! 06:08:05 <AaronSw> is #1 on daypop 06:08:47 <sbp> cool, you gotta generate that for #swhack! 06:08:54 <sbp> Meanwhile, I have an OS to install 06:08:56 <sbp> Gotta run 06:08:59 <AaronSw> c'ya! 06:09:00 <sbp> sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 06:09:13 <AaronSw> I wonder if there's IRC for BeOS. 06:11:37 <AaronSw> Heh: "Are you kidding? The last thing I need is to get sexually involved with one of these neurotic pinheads. [x--]" 06:14:20 <AaronSw> * AaronSw thinks of replying to http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6857 with "Sounds like your credit card number is invalid. Guess you'll need to hack another e-commerce site now." 06:15:48 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m92-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:15:48 <AaronSw> Heh, Bernstein called it the iLamp too. http://markBernstein.org/Jan0201.html#note_3509 06:16:11 <sbp> Wow, I've come across MB sized apps that were more difficult to install than BeOS 06:16:23 <AaronSw> Heh, Bernstein called it the iLamp too. http://markBernstein.org/Jan0201.html#note_3509 06:16:39 <AaronSw> Wouldn't it make sense for MB sized apps to be easy? 06:16:50 <sbp> 1MB 06:16:58 <AaronSw> oh, i misparsed 06:17:08 <sbp> :-) 06:17:12 <AaronSw> So are you in BeOS now? 06:17:21 <sbp> nope, I'm just about to run it... 06:17:30 <sbp> I'll try to get an IRC client going :-) 06:17:34 <sbp> sbp has quit (Client Quit) 06:20:27 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: sleep 06:24:12 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m99-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:24:32 <sbp> aaaaaaargh! 06:24:42 <sbp> The damn thing won't run under WinMe - it says it needs a "proper version of DOS" 06:24:53 <sbp> so I'm creating a boot disk, and hopefully I can run it off of that 06:27:11 <sbp> .google BeOS WinMe 06:27:13 <xena> BeOS WinMe: /url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.beosonline.de/forum/beos5/233.html&e=921 06:27:18 <sbp> http://www.beosonline.de/forum/beos5/233.html 06:27:49 <sbp> ooh: Außer Du aktivierst den DOS-Modus in WinMe. 06:27:58 <sbp> great! http://www.geocities.com/mfd4life_2000/ 07:01:50 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:11:53 <wmf> wmf has quit ("zzz") 07:12:22 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m1009-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 07:12:39 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m1009-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 07:13:15 <sbp> Well, it worked, but only just - and not that well 07:13:18 <sbp> It too a lot of configuring and hacking to get it to run, and when it did the monitor settings were badly off 07:13:33 <sbp> after a while I managed to get basic stuff working, but no Internet connection 07:13:44 <sbp> as I had predicted, it wouldn't recognize my internal modem 07:13:56 <sbp> strangely, WinXP suffered the same affliction :-) 07:14:15 <sbp> So it was a bit disappointing, but there's plenty more to play around with 07:14:18 <sbp> Gotta run 07:14:19 <sbp> sbp has quit (Client Quit) 11:51:53 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 13:08:09 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:47:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wakes up 14:52:56 <AaronSw> Wow, Ken Bereskin has a Radio blog: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100676/ 15:19:12 <AaronSw> Nice work: http://www.iol.ie/~alank/python/httpcomp.html 15:20:05 <AaronSw> It'd be cool if Googlebot followed links from Usenet archives. 15:47:18 <AaronSw> Tim Peters: "let the community decide which vision rocks loudest (hey, mixing 3 metaphors in 3 words is a special talent <wink>)." 16:06:32 <AaronSw> http://plexdev.org/ seems to work now 17:21:57 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m868-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:24:51 <kmacleod> kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 17:25:37 <kmacleod> kmacleod has left #swhack 17:57:02 <AaronSw> hello 18:17:59 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:00:05 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m26-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 19:07:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: lunch 19:26:43 <sbp> Sandro's gone all databaseish on us :-) 19:32:26 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:08:59 <AaronSw> databases are cool 20:09:09 <AaronSw> i think i'm getting hooked on Radio UserLand. 20:10:56 <AaronSw> Brent Simmons: "Sometimes I think to myself: I¹m a mutant; I was born without a tail." 20:12:22 <AaronSw> AaronSw has left #swhack 20:12:24 <AaronSw> AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 21:10:01 <AaronSw> interesting: http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg011301.htm 22:34:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> i was thinking of making an rss feed that returned checksums for urls 22:34:11 <AaronSw> [9 minutes later] 22:34:11 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> done: http://blogspace.com/rss/feeds/hash?name=David%20McCusker's%20Weblog&url=http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/new.htm 22:43:39 <tav`> putty website - great example of the google effect 22:44:05 <deltab> I remember when I had to enter "anakin putty" 22:44:17 <tav`> i type putty, and click the goto the best result on my toolbar 22:45:16 <tav`> plexnames makes best use of what the google effect truly is... 22:47:07 <tav`> shouldn't that url be blogged 22:47:08 <tav`> ? 22:47:13 <tav`> @ http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg011301.htm 22:47:21 <chumpster> O: `Google effect' reduces need for many domains (1/12/2002) from tav` 22:48:59 <AaronSw> putty? 22:49:13 <AaronSw> A Free Win32 Telnet/SSH Client 22:49:13 <AaronSw> ? 22:49:51 <tav`> .google putty 22:49:52 <xena> putty: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty 22:50:19 <tav`> i also used to use google on hack the planet back when wes started 22:51:41 <AaronSw> Yeah, I need to add "I'm Feeling Lucky" support to my URL-line. 22:51:52 <AaronSw> i use that for mccusker weblog 22:52:54 <AaronSw> aargh, this is really annoying: Entourage won't let me type HTP -- it autocorrects to HTTP. 22:53:01 <tav`> heh 22:54:30 <tav`> what browser do you use? 22:54:37 <AaronSw> IE5/mac 22:55:12 <tav`> * tav` slaps forehead 22:55:22 <AaronSw> heh, why? 22:55:25 <tav`> i can tell you how to do it in moz, IE/win, galeon 22:55:57 <AaronSw> add i'm feeling lucky? i already know how to do it. 22:56:04 <tav`> ah 22:56:18 <AaronSw> i just never got around to it 22:56:21 <tav`> how do you do it on the mac? 22:56:59 <AaronSw> there's a config file you edit. then you can just type "? query" and it hands it off to the url of your choice 22:57:08 <tav`> ! 22:57:10 <tav`> fuckers 22:57:25 <AaronSw> heh 22:57:44 <AaronSw> so i'm going to make a little DTRT-like thing that takes care of all my favorite urls 22:57:47 <tav`> the ms mac team must be fucking cool 22:58:06 <tav`> entourage, configurable IE 22:58:07 <AaronSw> they are so awesome. 22:58:16 <AaronSw> they do look a bit Borgish in person, tho 22:58:32 <tav`> heh 22:58:42 <AaronSw> their secret: they all work in CA. the RDF protects them from evil redmond waves. 22:58:48 <tav`> ah 22:59:26 <tav`> oh, i need you to do me a favour 22:59:35 <AaronSw> hmm, maybe they're not in CA... 22:59:40 <tav`> output the whole swhack archive onto one page 22:59:47 <tav`> the weblog... 22:59:55 <AaronSw> ok... in HTML? 23:00:08 <tav`> either 23:00:19 <AaronSw> ok, i can give it to you in xml pretty easily. 23:00:29 <AaronSw> does it need to be live? 23:00:32 <tav`> sure 23:00:39 <tav`> no 23:00:52 <tav`> only until today, and perhaps sometime later this week 23:01:03 <AaronSw> what's it for? 23:01:04 <tav`> you reg with weblogs.com right? 23:01:08 <AaronSw> yeah 23:01:21 <tav`> it's for www 23:01:27 <tav`> worldwidewiki 23:01:31 <AaronSw> aha 23:02:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waits for the stampeding rss herd to pass 23:03:01 <AaronSw> OK: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/webloghistory.xml 23:07:11 <tav`> cheers 23:15:24 <AaronSw> @ http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/ 23:15:29 <chumpster> P: Aaron Swartz: Secret Agent from AaronSw 23:16:07 <AaronSw> P::Yeah, yeah, [Radio|http://radio.userland.com/] came out. But you *really* want to see is my new Radio Weblog, right? 23:16:10 <chumpster> commented item P 23:17:11 <AaronSw> P::Apologies to [Morbus and his AmphetaDesk|http://disobey.com/amphetadesk/], but Radio is seriously tempting. I might even buy it! 23:17:14 <chumpster> commented item P 23:31:42 <tav`> ! 23:31:43 <tav`> crazy 23:32:49 <AaronSw> it'd be cool if it ran on linux -- then it might make a good zope replacement 23:44:40 <tav`> * tav` ignores the troll 23:47:20 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h132-206.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:58:51 <AaronSw> heh, ZopeReplacement could become the generic term for application server... or soemthing ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-14.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000223046�07420666503�011677� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:31 <AaronSw> wasn't a troll, btw 00:40:24 <sbp> sbp (sean@m63-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:40:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: dinner 00:43:58 <sbp> * sbp gets the hang BersIRC 00:44:04 <sbp> Hmm... can't get the font right 00:44:41 <sbp> oh well, close enough 00:44:53 <sbp> where's this all about? 00:44:56 <sbp> [[[ 00:44:56 <sbp> 06:07:11 <sbp> ooh! about a minute to go on BeOS 00:44:56 <sbp> 06:07:56 <AaronSw> http:HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable 00:44:56 <sbp> MIME-Version: 1.0 00:44:56 <sbp> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:09:20 GMT 00:44:57 <sbp> Server: AOLserver/3.3 00:45:05 <sbp> ]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-13.txt 00:49:14 <sbp> well, it fixed itself 00:49:14 <sbp> * sbp reviews 00:50:47 <sbp> woo @ "Aaron Swartz: Secret Agent\nWhere people throw ducks at balloons, and nothing's the way that it seems" 00:51:24 <sbp> [cite: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/] 00:51:33 <sbp> but whatever happened to the #swhack Weblog? 00:54:03 <sbp> "The Google Effect" is rather interesting 00:54:38 <sbp> [cite: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/2002/01/13/#i1010962036.491212] 00:54:40 <sbp> Gotta run 00:54:44 <sbp> sbp has quit ("Homer: Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 00:58:20 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m204-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:59:55 <sbp> aah, that's better 01:00:37 <sbp> heh, proof that Aaron's avoiding me:- 01:00:38 <sbp> [[[ 01:00:38 <sbp> 19:00:05 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m26-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:00:39 <sbp> 19:07:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: lunch 01:00:40 <sbp> [...] 01:02:59 <sbp> [ooh, I love Aaron's server. No really - I do.] 01:05:05 <tav`> and... 01:05:06 <tav`> -- 01:05:06 <tav`> * sbp (sean@m63-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:07 <tav`> * AaronSw is away: dinner 01:05:08 <tav`> -- 01:05:14 <sbp> 00:40:24 <sbp> sbp (sean@m63-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:14 <sbp> 00:40:32 <AaronSw> * AaronSw is away: dinner 01:05:22 <sbp> ]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-13.txt & http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-14.txt 01:05:26 <sbp> cheers, tav 01:05:57 <sbp> wow, that's the longest I've had to wait so far for blogspace.com 01:06:08 <sbp> in the end, browser.py won :-) 01:15:43 <AaronSw> <sbp> but whatever happened to the #swhack Weblog? 01:16:03 <AaronSw> isn't it alright? 01:16:31 <sbp> you know what I meant :-) 01:16:55 <AaronSw> no i don't 01:17:38 <sbp> well as long as we're in the same boat 01:17:55 <AaronSw> Heh: "Did you know an iPod bounces when you drop it? Mine does-- and it still works fine." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26157&cid=2833573 01:18:00 <AaronSw> want to play the questions game? 01:18:01 <sbp> heh, heh 01:18:12 <sbp> why would I want to play the questions game? 01:18:18 <AaronSw> why not? 01:18:35 <sbp> because it sucks 01:18:39 <AaronSw> timeout. 01:18:45 <AaronSw> statement, one-love. 01:19:06 <sbp> wow, I can't believe it's taken me this long to drive you nuts 01:19:18 <AaronSw> statement, two-love. 01:20:26 <sbp> blogspace.com: giving a whole new meaning to the word "instant" 01:20:42 <AaronSw> statement, three-love 01:20:54 <sbp> Hmm... you forgot the full stop that time 01:21:00 <AaronSw> game and match. 01:21:20 <sbp> It's game, *set*, and match. Dear oh dear 01:21:45 <AaronSw> nope, it's game and match. i checked. 01:21:51 <sbp> are you feeling O.K., A? 01:22:00 <AaronSw> Does it seem like i'm not? 01:22:18 <sbp> why are you answering my questions with a question? 01:22:24 <AaronSw> why shouldn't i? 01:22:44 <sbp> I don't know... er... do I? 01:23:22 <AaronSw> do you know much? 01:23:28 <sbp> so anyway, is there any way to speed up your server? Let me rephrase that: please speed up your server 01:23:42 <AaronSw> why don't you kill off all the RSS users? 01:24:05 <AaronSw> [seems perfectly fast to me] 01:24:36 <sbp> it took 5 minutes for it to serve a page 01:24:39 <sbp> *5* 01:24:55 <AaronSw> maybe it doesn't like you 01:25:06 <sbp> it doesn't like xena either, in that case 01:25:09 <sbp> I tried .URI 01:25:20 <sbp> and I used browser.py - which got it (eventually) 01:25:46 <AaronSw> i guess i should fix the problem, shouldn't i? 01:26:12 <sbp> Uh huh :-) 01:28:07 <AaronSw> hmm, how to do that without breaking links... 01:32:50 <sbp> so, is Radio better than Blogspace? 01:32:57 <AaronSw> it's completely different 01:34:03 <sbp> Yeah, but they're both "post junk to Web" applications 01:34:16 <AaronSw> so is amaya 01:34:20 <sbp> I suppose that Radio is aimed at people who don't have good Webspace 01:34:38 <AaronSw> no, i don't think so 01:34:57 <sbp> Who do you see the target audience as, then? 01:35:40 <AaronSw> news junkies 01:36:21 <sbp> but I could have an Amaya window open on some PUT handling webspace... same effect? What's the difference? 01:37:00 <AaronSw> umm... amaya doesn't do news aggregation 01:37:16 <AaronSw> i don't see how it compares. 01:37:35 <sbp> (PUT handling, e.g.: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/att-0163/02-put.py) 01:38:43 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m827-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:39:02 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m827-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:39:57 <sbp> <sbp> ah, right 01:41:02 <AaronSw> what system is that put handler for? 01:41:43 <sbp> I presume it will work on any. Tested on WinMe/Apache 01:42:38 <sbp> it was a very quick hack just to test QuickPut - it should have more stuff added to it 01:42:38 <sbp> but it works [change the shebang line] 01:44:24 <sbp> * sbp was rather pleased with QuickPut 01:46:19 <AaronSw> QuickPut is your Python PUT tool? 01:46:32 <sbp> yep - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/att-0163/01-QuickPut.py 01:53:21 <sbp> ooh, funky: http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/mxTidy.html 01:53:34 <AaronSw> cool 01:54:34 <sbp> Hmm... I always get confused by download options lately - I have Python 2.2 under CygWin and 2.1/2.2 under Windows... 02:22:10 <AaronSw> Function definition: "Raise an exception. If you use this I will kill you." 02:59:20 <sbp> ugh:- 02:59:20 <sbp> >>> import threading 02:59:20 <sbp> Traceback (most recent call last): 02:59:21 <sbp> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ? 02:59:21 <sbp> File "/usr/lib/python2.2/threading.py", line 5, in ? 02:59:21 <sbp> import thread 02:59:21 <sbp> ImportError: No module named thread 03:02:46 <AaronSw> Heh. 03:03:02 <AaronSw> watch the memes flow: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/13.html#a120 03:03:30 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 03:14:24 <sbp> interesting article: http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html 03:15:00 <sbp> http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html 03:15:05 <sbp> um... 03:15:06 <sbp> @ http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html 03:15:06 <AaronSw> He sounds cool. 03:15:27 <chumpster> A: http://www.labournet.net/other/0011/benn.html from sbp 03:15:33 <AaronSw> Uh oh: "500 Server Error CanÕt evaluate the expression because the name ÒtemplateÓ hasnÕt been defined." 03:15:48 <sbp> A:|An Interview With Tony Benn 03:15:49 <chumpster> titled item A 03:16:08 <AaronSw> A::Tony Benn sounds cool. 03:16:09 <chumpster> commented item A 03:16:33 <sbp> A::This interview is about numerous things, but generally globalization - and how it's a new form of imperialism in Benn's opinion 03:16:34 <chumpster> commented item A 03:16:56 <sbp> A::"""I'm interested in language. We used to call it the War Office. Then it became the Ministry of Defence. We used to talk about the hydrogen bomb, now we talk about a deterrent. And the language is very cleverly constructed to give the impression that it's not what it is. Humanitarian Intervention. World Peace.""" 03:16:57 <chumpster> commented item A 03:17:36 <AaronSw> A::Sounds like [Chomsky|http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm]. 03:17:37 <chumpster> commented item A 03:18:44 <AaronSw> .acronym nntr 03:18:45 <xena> nntr: No Need To Reply, Nothing New to Report 03:18:49 <AaronSw> .acronym eom 03:18:51 <xena> eom: End Of Message, End Of Month, Earl of March (secondary school), Echelons of Maintenance (USMC logistics), Electro-Optic Modulator, End of Matter, End Of Memory, End of Mission, End of Module, Enlisted Open Mess, Equations Of Motion, Every Other Monday, Every Other Month, Execution Ordering Method, Extra-Ocular Movement (medical), Extra-Ocular Muscle (medical) 03:22:01 <AaronSw> Oooh. I think I may be on the verge of fixing The RSS Problem that makes the server so slow. 03:23:37 <sbp> A::Chomsky is mentioned a couple of times in the interview 03:23:39 <chumpster> commented item A 03:23:44 <sbp> hey, great! 03:24:34 <AaronSw> Can you hammer on http://rss.blogspace.com/ for me? make sure everything works 03:25:26 <sbp> seems fine 03:25:40 <sbp> robotWisdom is slow 03:25:52 <AaronSw> yeah. i guess it's because it's such a big page 03:26:13 <sbp> why don't you use checklinks? 03:26:20 <AaronSw> checklinks? 03:26:24 <AaronSw> oh 03:26:32 <sbp> here: http://validator.w3.org/checklink?url=http://rss.blogspace.com/ 03:26:42 <AaronSw> yeah, that's not going to help me, tho 03:27:31 <sbp> A::[on people moving right as they get older] """take the four members of the SDP - Jenkins, Owen, Williams and Rogers - they all became members of the House of Lords. I mean, that really is something isn't it?""" 03:27:32 <chumpster> commented item A 03:28:50 <AaronSw> alright, here we go... 03:29:38 <AaronSw> seems to be working 03:30:15 <AaronSw> odd: radio us running, but it's not in my dock 03:31:38 <tav`> hmz 03:31:46 <sbp> heh, this applies to lots of things: """When somebody comes up with a progressive idea, to begin with, you're mad, bonkers. Then if you go on, you're dangerous. Then there's a pause. Then you can't find anyone who can say they thought of it in the first place. That's how progress is made.""" 03:31:47 <tav`> rss and blogspace are the same machine 03:31:54 <tav`> how does it minimise load? 03:32:06 <sbp> [[[ 03:32:06 <sbp> http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/campfront.htm 03:32:06 <sbp> What to do: The link is forbidden! This needs fixing. Usual suspects: a missing index.html or Overview.html, or a missing ACL. 03:32:11 <sbp> ]]] - checklink 03:32:15 <AaronSw> the rss server won'y crash the blogspace server. 03:32:20 <AaronSw> err won't 03:32:33 <tav`> ah, moving it to vorpal? 03:32:54 <AaronSw> not yet... but this is the first step towards doing that 03:33:16 <AaronSw> basically rss.blogspace.com and blogspace.com are now two completely separate server processes on the machine 03:33:19 <tav`> has vorpal arrived yet? 03:33:26 <AaronSw> no... stupid dell takes forever. 03:33:29 <tav`> ah 03:33:31 <tav`> hmz 03:33:37 <tav`> that reminds me, i ordered a dell 03:33:48 <AaronSw> they don't actually build your machine until 3 weeks after you order. ;-) 03:34:03 <tav`> got the dell check status link for me? 03:34:20 <AaronSw> for your server? 03:34:36 <tav`> no, this one's just a workstation 03:34:54 <tav`> although it cost a tad more than vorpal 03:34:59 <AaronSw> heh! 03:35:09 <AaronSw> order status: http://support.dell.com/us/en/dellcare/segtopic_ccare_nav_002_ccare.asp 03:35:22 <tav`> thanks 03:35:29 <tav`> did they send you an email after you bought it? 03:35:33 <AaronSw> two 03:35:36 <tav`> hmz 03:35:42 <tav`> straight away? 03:35:58 <AaronSw> yeah... maybe 10-15 minutes delay 03:36:13 <tav`> hmz 03:38:27 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m137-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 03:38:46 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m137-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:39:16 <tav`> .change 1180 gbp to usd 03:39:18 <xena> 1,180.00 (United Kingdom Pounds (GBP)) makes 1,710.01 (United States Dollars (USD)) 03:39:28 <tav`> a grand more than vorpal 03:40:51 <tav`> You have been issued with Internet Receipt Number IR1726-1114460 03:40:57 <tav`> that's the only bit of data i have 03:41:03 <AaronSw> hmm 03:41:08 <AaronSw> why's it so expensive? 03:41:36 <tav`> it has a monitor ;p 03:41:43 <AaronSw> aha 03:42:05 <AaronSw> i found that dell RAM was a real ripoff, so i bought from crucial.com instead 03:42:10 <tav`> a modem, and other such useless shit 03:42:19 <AaronSw> ms windows? 03:42:25 <tav`> oh, yea 03:42:27 <AaronSw> probably another $500 03:42:36 <tav`> that wasn't optional 03:42:48 <AaronSw> heh, you can auction it on that linuxjournal site 03:42:49 <tav`> heh, a lot of the crap wasn't optional 03:43:16 <tav`> it's not for me, i bought it for a friend 03:43:23 <AaronSw> aha 03:43:52 <tav`> but he hasn't said anything about it 03:44:00 <tav`> and i haven't got any emails 03:45:06 <AaronSw> lol. Dave Winer: "Life is good. Aaron Swartz has discovered Jeremiah Rogers. Two prodigies, both in their teens. Both off-the-scale smart. The Bill Gates of 2010 meets his Paul Allen. Which is which?" 03:45:29 <tav`> jeremiah rogers? 03:45:52 <sbp> Heh, heh 03:45:53 <AaronSw> you should read my weblog 03:46:07 <tav`> you have a weblog? 03:46:13 <tav`> besides swhack that is 03:46:19 <AaronSw> just started today: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/ 03:46:46 <tav`> oooh! 03:46:47 <tav`> http://radio.weblogs.com/0100864/ 03:46:49 <tav`> heh 03:46:58 <sbp> You knew about Jeremiah ages ago, didn't you? Introduced him to me? 03:46:58 <AaronSw> heh 03:47:08 <AaronSw> yeah, but i never wrote to him before. 03:47:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw subscribes to tav 03:47:28 <AaronSw> 's feed 03:47:44 <sbp> * sbp notes http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/01/13#lda9233d89208760ce39551a4afe6377f 03:47:45 <sbp> ah, right 03:47:45 <sbp> Winer's odd use of the word "discovered" is what threw me 03:47:51 <AaronSw> i hope to get a steady supply of daily "hmz"s 03:48:14 <sbp> Wow, so Winer linked to your blog already? You're a star! 03:48:22 <AaronSw> unfortunately upstreaming is being reallly slow. grrr. 03:49:19 <sbp> Pff, JR could have at least linked to the Plex 03:49:23 <AaronSw> yeah 03:50:17 <sbp> * sbp wonders how to convert http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/rss.xml into something useful, like RDF 03:51:06 <AaronSw> blogspace to the rescue! 03:51:19 <AaronSw> http://blogspace.com/rss/rss2rdf?url=http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/rss.xml 03:51:38 <sbp> heh, great! 03:51:51 <AaronSw> the rdf:abouts are a tad weird, tho 03:52:07 <sbp> Hmm... yeah, I just noticed that 03:54:36 <tav`> hmz http://stats.userland.com/groups/radio1/report.html 03:55:27 <sbp> 26. Aaron Swartz 101 03:55:43 <AaronSw> whoo! watch me skyrocket 03:55:47 <sbp> and 03:55:47 <sbp> 95. Aaron Swartz 130 03:55:59 <sbp> [for all-time] 03:56:08 <sbp> [well, since 10/7/2001] 03:56:55 <AaronSw> * AaronSw roots for Radio: upstream, upstream, upstream! 03:57:06 <AaronSw> woohoo! http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/ 03:57:39 <tav`> jeremiah sounds borning 03:57:42 <tav`> boring even 03:57:55 <AaronSw> in what way 03:58:00 <AaronSw> * AaronSw accidentally runs "while 1: urllib.urlopen('http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/')" ;-) 03:58:03 <sbp> ah, 'tis fun to spend your evenings borning away 03:58:08 <sbp> lol 03:58:21 <tav`> just the style he writes in 03:58:28 <sbp> neat: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t300-s2101729,00.html 03:58:41 <sbp> no one is more boring than purple monkey dishwasher 03:58:42 <sbp> I mean, me 03:58:44 <AaronSw> 600 hits -- i can do it. ;-_ 03:58:52 <sbp> .google "purple monkey dishwasher" 03:58:53 <xena> "purple monkey dishwasher": http://www.envy.nu/dishwasher 04:00:19 <sbp> [a Simpsons quote] 04:01:05 <sbp> WFM, 24. Aaron Swartz 117 04:01:18 <sbp> How'd you get 16 hits in like 5 minutes? 04:01:29 <AaronSw> that's the power of while 1... i mean scripting news 04:01:36 <sbp> :-) 04:01:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw stops at hit 144 04:01:51 <sbp> heh, heh 04:03:15 <sbp> * sbp gets it via. browser.py 04:03:40 <sbp> wow, the HTML sucks-ass on a tremendous scale 04:03:54 <sbp> (but browser.py still renders away, and does a good job too) 04:04:04 <AaronSw> Bryan Bell is an awesome designer, but he doesn't do HTML too well. 04:04:21 <AaronSw> ugh. rpc.weblogs.com is down again 04:04:34 <AaronSw> and up again 04:04:39 <tav`> what's that? 04:04:58 <AaronSw> the server you upload to 04:05:16 <sbp> RPC? What does it use? 04:05:31 <AaronSw> What do you think? XML-RPC. 04:05:36 <sbp> Pff, why haven't I got a radio-mug? 04:05:38 <sbp> heh, heh 04:05:53 <AaronSw> They did invent it after all. 04:07:16 <sbp> * sbp wonders where he can get a mug from 04:09:03 <AaronSw> copy and paste 04:10:33 <sbp> pardon? 04:11:38 <AaronSw> which mug? 04:11:49 <AaronSw> there's http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/radioBadge.gif 04:11:59 <AaronSw> and http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/header3.gif 04:12:17 <sbp> the latter 04:12:27 <AaronSw> you could always go with http://www.scripting.com/images/2002/01/12/xmlCoffeeCup.gif 04:12:35 <AaronSw> or even http://www.scripting.com/images/2002/01/12/dubyaLovesRadio.jpg 04:13:00 <sbp> heh, heh 04:13:26 <sbp> BLURB:I Want A Radio Mug 04:13:29 <chumpster> B: I Want A Radio Mug from sbp 04:14:34 <AaronSw> Nice domain name: http://www.deadlybloodyserious.com/ 04:14:40 <AaronSw> now we'll call the FBI 04:15:05 <sbp> B::Winer plasters pictures ([http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/header3.gif|1], [http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/radioBadge.gif|2]) of the mug everywhere, and entices you to buy one... but you can't! What a rip-off. 04:15:05 <chumpster> commented item B 04:17:28 <AaronSw> B::They're not yet at [Store.UserLand|http://store.UserLand.com/] but I'm sure they'll soon be [CafePress|http://www.cafepress.com/] 04:17:31 <chumpster> commented item B 04:18:07 <AaronSw> another mug: http://www.scripting.com/images/radioMugOnGrey.gif 04:18:32 <tav`> was radio commercial b4? 04:18:40 <AaronSw> no 04:18:56 <AaronSw> well... it was commercial but free 04:19:05 <tav`> thought so 04:23:04 <sbp> B::Ooh, here's a [http://www.scripting.com/images/radioMugOnGrey.gif|wonderful image of the mug] 04:23:06 <chumpster> commented item B 04:23:20 <AaronSw> I'm trying to find the original graphic, but no luck 04:23:58 <AaronSw> he had a vote... there were two. one was the cactus, the other was the guy on the horse. 04:26:36 <tav`> did userland always do the hosting too? 04:26:56 <AaronSw> yeah, tho it was at ourfavoritesongs.com before, and wasn't as nicely done 04:27:06 <tav`> ah 04:27:24 <tav`> what if i want to serve from a real fast server? 04:27:32 <AaronSw> it has ftp support 04:27:35 <AaronSw> aha: http://surveys.userland.com/surveys/run/dave@userland.com/whichPicForTheCoffeeMug 04:28:03 <AaronSw> B::Here's a [high-quality copy of Super Cactus|http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug1.gif] for your enjoyment. 04:28:04 <chumpster> commented item B 04:28:19 <sbp> note: http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$7546 04:28:33 <tav`> http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug1.gif 04:28:35 <tav`> http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug2.gif 04:28:47 <tav`> ah, AaronSw blogged 04:29:03 <AaronSw> B::Personally, I prefer [the spaced-out faceless cowboy|http://www.scripting.com/images/coffeeMug2.gif]. 04:29:05 <chumpster> commented item B 04:31:42 <AaronSw> B::But I originally [voted|http://surveys.userland.com/surveys/run/dave@userland.com/whichPicForTheCoffeeMug] for the cactus, so maybe I'm just suffering from cactus overload. 04:31:44 <chumpster> commented item B 04:32:42 <AaronSw> working. [...] Oh, and please don't mention this email when you take it down. Or I'd have to kill you :). 04:32:47 <AaronSw> oh shoot 04:34:03 <sbp> well, I laugh 04:34:13 <sbp> newlines in quotes *really* suck 04:34:16 <AaronSw> now you will have to be killed too 04:35:58 <sbp> and anyone who reads the logs? 04:36:08 <AaronSw> they won't understand 04:36:09 <sbp> ooh: 17. Aaron Swartz 173 04:36:14 <AaronSw> * AaronSw does jedi hand-waving action 04:37:02 <AaronSw> Ah, Jeremiah linked to the Plex. And put it on his sidebar! 04:37:19 <AaronSw> I need to figure out this sidebar stuff. 04:38:09 <sbp> great! 04:38:58 <sbp> lol! "Sean wants a Radio mug...a lot, apparently." 04:39:03 <sbp> thanks :-) 04:39:30 <AaronSw> :-) 04:41:18 <sbp> * sbp sits back and waits for his mug to arrive 04:41:42 <AaronSw> you don't even have a weblog! 04:41:46 <AaronSw> you're a nobody in UserLand 04:41:54 <sbp> That is true 04:42:09 <sbp> But I have a website... that kinda makes up for it 04:42:19 <AaronSw> pffft 04:42:23 <sbp> and I have #swhack as a Weblog 04:42:32 <sbp> you have to bow to #swhack 04:43:59 <AaronSw> no i don't 04:48:03 <AaronSw> wow, what a URL: http://toolsdirectory.manilasites.com/directory/9/printOutline/extraInfo/iWasVeryExcitedAboutRadioUserlandButThereDidntSeemToBeAnEasyWayToPrintYourOutlinesWithALittleDiggingAndALotOfHelpIHaveMadeASuitetoolThatDoesJustThat/blatestReleaseDateb/hereIsTheSuite/addAScriptToSystemstartupTableThatHasTheFollowingLine 04:49:18 <deltab> with URLs like that, who needs actual pages? 04:49:30 <AaronSw> great for links users 04:49:48 <deltab> huh? why? 04:50:04 <AaronSw> you don't even have to render the page :) 04:50:06 <AaronSw> super-persistent too 04:50:48 <sbp> heh, heh 04:50:59 <sbp> come on everybody, use "data:" URIs! 04:51:57 <deltab> yeah 04:52:10 <deltab> any browsers support it? 04:52:17 <sbp> Mozilla 04:52:24 <deltab> ah, good 04:54:25 <AaronSw> how do I do <small> in CSS? 04:54:29 <sbp> Doesn't advertising that face that you're a secret agent make you less of a secret agent, and more of an agent 04:54:34 <sbp> ? 04:54:37 <sbp> s/face/fact/ 04:54:46 <deltab> font-size: smaller 04:54:52 <AaronSw> and align=center? 04:55:00 <sbp> text-align: center 04:55:02 <deltab> text-align: center 04:55:05 <AaronSw> cool 04:55:32 <sbp> I'd advise setting an em value for font-size, not smaller 04:55:39 <sbp> perhaps 0.8em 04:55:51 <deltab> ah, yeah 04:55:56 <AaronSw> that's what you said last time and I had three viewers lose their eyesight. 04:56:19 <sbp> heh. Well, browsers are inconsistent whatever the CSS :-) 04:56:31 <deltab> why are you making text smaller? 04:56:37 <sbp> set it to 0.9em and check it on everything you've got 04:56:48 <AaronSw> i'm too lazy for that 05:04:55 <sbp> ha! Move over Larry Staton Jr.: 14. Aaron Swartz 217 05:05:11 <AaronSw> heh! 05:05:14 <sbp> and watch out Wes :-) 05:05:34 <AaronSw> http://www.w3.org/2000/06/webdata/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netcrucible.com%2Fxslt%2Fopml.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0100663%2Fgems%2FmySubscriptions.opml 05:06:03 <sbp> nice 05:06:31 <AaronSw> Does the DHTML work for you? 05:07:06 <sbp> it doesn't follow the "links", but it makes them all pretty 05:07:14 <tav`> ehm 05:07:27 <tav`> how do you comment on a weblog ? 05:07:31 <tav`> how do you comment on a weblog item? 05:07:47 <AaronSw> you link to it from your weblog and follow the link, so it appears in one's refferers 05:07:51 <AaronSw> or you just use crit 05:07:54 <AaronSw> or annotea 05:08:34 <tav`> how does wes do it? 05:08:40 <tav`> or is that manila power? 05:08:41 <AaronSw> we has manila 05:08:44 <AaronSw> err wes 05:08:49 <tav`> right 05:08:53 <AaronSw> yeah, that's the prob with radio 05:09:01 <AaronSw> of course radio can mirror to a manila site 05:09:50 <sbp> tav, where's your test site? 05:10:48 <sbp> ah: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100864/ 05:10:55 <sbp> via. http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/gems/mySubscriptions.opml 05:11:18 <sbp> oh, I like the entry - http://radio.weblogs.com/0100864/2002/01/14.html#a1 05:11:39 <sbp> I need a cool word to say a lot 05:11:46 <AaronSw> semanticWeb-long! 05:13:09 <AaronSw> Heh: "Some of [Wes'] code is running on every request that Radio processes." 05:13:10 <AaronSw> Aha, so that's why it's so slow. 05:13:43 <sbp> woo! semanticWeb-long! ^5 05:13:51 <sbp> heh, heh 05:13:53 <deltab> hmm, something odd happened to rdfig in http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/ 05:14:02 <deltab> err... 05:14:10 <AaronSw> oh? 05:14:11 <deltab> in http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/gems/mySubscriptions.opml 05:14:37 <AaronSw> what's so odd? 05:14:47 <sbp> ooh, that's weird 05:14:50 <AaronSw> I like how it got tagged ith a special version="RSS1" 05:14:54 <deltab> the description 05:15:39 <AaronSw> What's odd about that? it's the description in http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/index.rss. 05:15:54 <sbp> odd 05:16:32 <deltab> that's not a description 05:17:00 <AaronSw> it hangs out with the other descriptions on weekends 05:17:50 <AaronSw> * AaronSw changes his tagline to "<a href="http://purl.org/net/sbp/">Sean</a>: Doesn't advertising that face that you're a secret agent make you less of a secret agent, and more of an agent?" 05:18:55 <tav`> how is http://www.w3.org/2000/06/webdata/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netcrucible.com%2Fxslt%2Fopml.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0100663%2Fgems%2FmySubscriptions.opml constructed? 05:19:06 <AaronSw> isn't it obvious from the url? 05:19:29 <deltab> hehe 05:19:35 <tav`> it is after pasting it 05:20:37 <sbp> tagline: hooray! 05:20:38 <AaronSw> * AaronSw trims it to: <a href="http://purl.org/net/sbp/">Sean</a>: Doesn't advertising the fact that you're a secret agent make you less secret? 05:20:50 <sbp> Doesn't advertising the fact that you're a secret agent make you less secret? 05:20:53 <sbp> there, I said it 05:20:58 <AaronSw> Phew. 05:21:21 <sbp> Hmm... no change 05:21:22 <AaronSw> next week: maya: hmz is the meaning of life 05:21:30 <sbp> heh. That is a good line 05:22:03 <sbp> that's the problem with me getting a Radio account - I'd have to come up with a tagline that's earth-shattering and so forth 05:22:15 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:22:57 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: <maya> hmz is the meaning of life 05:24:22 <tav`> damn "garret":http://radio.weblogs.com/0001246/ ! 05:24:26 <tav`> using my style! 05:24:39 <AaronSw> your style? 05:24:46 <tav`> my font, my lowercasing 05:24:54 <AaronSw> Tony Collen: "I think that kids need to be in high school with their peers, or they'll grow up weird (No offense, Aaron)." 05:24:59 <AaronSw> I bett garret predates you. 05:25:24 <tav`> aristotle predates me, so? 05:25:25 <tav`> ;p 05:25:38 <AaronSw> i mean in his use of the style 05:25:47 <AaronSw> heh! Jeremiah: "I can't complain, really, although Aaron and I haven't discussed any plans to monopolize any specific markets at the moment." 05:25:56 <tav`> lol 05:26:02 <AaronSw> "I'm thinking we should go for the plastic food storage market, lord knows tupperware is dreadfully expensive." 05:26:56 <sbp> I think that Tony Collen is weird 05:27:00 <AaronSw> meme spreads further: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100097/2002/01/13.html#a17 05:28:09 <AaronSw> heh, it's such a circle-jerk, whatever that means, but it sure is fun 05:28:44 <sbp> ugh, that style is going to start getting on my nerves :-) 05:29:09 <sbp> everyone on the Web is going to be using that style, soon. At least it'll be easier to set user CSS 05:29:13 <AaronSw> heh 05:29:21 <AaronSw> we need atariboy to make a new one for us 05:31:18 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m414-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 05:31:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m414-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:32:12 <sbp> <sbp> Who's Mark Cohen? 05:32:30 <AaronSw> another blogger i know 05:32:36 <AaronSw> ah, here's tony 05:33:07 <sbp> Tony? 05:33:15 <AaronSw> tony collen: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100630/ 05:33:53 <sbp> Ah, the weird guy 05:34:07 <AaronSw> heh, someone set their referer to http://static.userland.com/images/llamas/winernakedsm.jpg 05:34:26 <AaronSw> methinks they give too much credit 05:34:54 <sbp> heh, heh 05:35:53 <sbp> heh:- 05:35:54 <sbp> [[[ 05:35:55 <sbp> Favorites: 05:35:55 <sbp> Aaron Swartz 05:35:55 <sbp> Adam Curry 05:35:55 <sbp> Dave Winer 05:35:56 <sbp> Jeremiah 05:35:58 <sbp> Joel Spolsky 05:36:00 <sbp> ]]] - Cohen 05:36:38 <sbp> You're in good company there 05:37:24 <sbp> update: 13. Aaron Swartz 253 05:37:34 <AaronSw> ooh 05:37:50 <sbp> I can't wait until you inevitably overtake Wes :-) 05:38:20 <sbp> you made http://www.idiosync.net/ 05:38:33 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:38:43 <sbp> I guess that's automatic, though 05:38:57 <AaronSw> yeah 05:42:34 <AaronSw> * AaronSw quotes sbp: "I think that Tony Collen is weird." 05:43:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw says: High School is "a culture of competition (who's popular? who's got the drugs? who's got the money?) and one that's very self-focused." 05:43:06 <sbp> Mwahahahaha! 05:43:33 <sbp> (at the yet another off-the-cuff sbp quote) 05:43:57 <sbp> and for your saying: top marks. You did very well, Aaron. Now, don't let us down quote-wise next time 05:44:10 <AaronSw> Heh. 05:44:18 <AaronSw> What letter grade do I get? 05:44:29 <AaronSw> Will you be sending a note to my parents? 05:45:20 <sbp> Hmm... I give you an "A", although why that's a better letter than any other in the alphabet, I don't know. Oh, of course - there are two of them at the beginning of your forename 05:45:34 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:45:47 <sbp> wow, tansaku^2 05:47:04 <sbp> So, are you going to be purchasing R8? 05:47:12 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:47:17 <tansaku2> tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 05:47:19 <AaronSw> We'll see in thirty days. 05:47:24 <AaronSw> Err, 29. 05:47:25 <sbp> :-) 05:48:40 <lethedrinker> lethedrinker (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 05:48:49 <AaronSw> hey lethedrinker 05:48:54 <lethedrinker> hi Aaron 05:48:56 <sbp> Hi there 05:49:09 <lethedrinker> seems to be some press about plex as of late. not sure where from though. 05:49:26 <lethedrinker> a couple people have dropped me the link though. 05:49:31 <AaronSw> Who? 05:49:38 <AaronSw> it's circulating in the weblog community tonight 05:49:48 <lethedrinker> 1. richard volpato, business manager from au 05:50:19 <lethedrinker> some random comments that originated from tav`? on #zope as well. 05:50:34 <AaronSw> ah, well tav always does that 05:50:42 <lethedrinker> i was under the impression it wasn't useable yet. 05:50:57 <lethedrinker> hi sean ;) 05:51:04 <AaronSw> no, it's not really. 05:51:20 <AaronSw> but i think tav believes that if he talks about it enough, it'll appear 05:51:29 <AaronSw> which is true, because i'll be so embarassed that i'll finish it 05:51:36 <lethedrinker> bad policy, hype is good, vaporware is bad. 05:51:58 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m900-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 05:52:03 <lethedrinker> well if its added pressure you want... just announce it :-) 05:52:10 <AaronSw> at the worst the plex is a thought experiment 05:52:17 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m900-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:52:27 <AaronSw> announce: to where? 05:52:27 <tav`> plex is far more than a thought experiment ;p 05:52:45 <AaronSw> well, whoever does the job first i will call the plex ;-) 05:52:47 <lethedrinker> btw. i (hazmat) hooked up lucene to zope to index comp.lang.python archives, its blazingly fast even through a socket connection. it really has changed the way i think about java/jython. 05:52:49 <sbp> ooh, Gedankenexperiment 05:53:12 <tav`> lethedrinker: can you do it w/ jython? 05:53:19 <sbp> Plex PR: Powered by meme 05:53:19 <lethedrinker> :-) 05:53:41 <lethedrinker> you can do almost any java stuff in jython, its just a matter of speed. 05:54:12 <lethedrinker> there is a good example of using lucene to index xml from the isogen folk in the lucene archive as well. 05:54:48 <lethedrinker> actually i'm not sure if its reachable from the archives since sf archives SUCK... and the transfer to apache didn't seem to keep the around. 05:55:06 <lethedrinker> if you're(anyone) interested i can dig it up. 05:55:09 <AaronSw> ooh, opt-out links: http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html 05:55:34 <AaronSw> of course my ad blocker blocks them. heh 05:55:51 <sbp> man, are you still going through my rant-crud-pile? 05:56:00 <tav`> does dan gilmore have a weblog i can subscribe to? 05:56:01 <AaronSw> no... did you link to that? 05:56:19 <sbp> or is that another page out of the billions on the Web that we both found independently within a matter of days 05:56:32 <sbp> logster, grep technoerotica.net 05:58:13 <logster> I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'technoerotica.net' 05:58:14 <logster> 0) 2002-01-14 05:56:32 <sbp> logster, grep technoerotica.net 05:58:15 <logster> 1) 2002-01-14 05:55:09 <AaronSw> ooh, opt-out links: http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html 05:58:16 <logster> 2) 2002-01-12 02:42:40 <sbp> interesting (opt out of pop-ups, using cookies): http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html 05:58:18 <AaronSw> via powazek 05:58:18 <tav`> lethedrinker: please, i be interested 05:58:18 <AaronSw> tav, http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/ no rss it appears 05:58:18 <AaronSw> you'll have to use my hack 05:58:18 <lethedrinker> tav`: email? 05:58:18 <tav`> ah, well i wanted to blog his google thing 05:58:31 <sbp> thought so 06:00:53 <lethedrinker> tav`: email? 06:02:18 <AaronSw> Lemur: What do you use to create your sites? 06:02:18 <AaronSw> Powazek: An undying optimism, a belief in the the unspoken goodness of the average Joe, and coffee. Lots of coffee. 06:02:23 <AaronSw> - http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/powazek/index.htm 06:03:54 <sbp> Heh 06:04:25 <tav`> tav@espians.com 06:05:50 <sbp> I like what Powazek has to say. And he has a cool name 06:06:09 <lethedrinker> .google uddi and python 06:06:12 <xena> uddi and python: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth4/?open&l=810,t=grws,p=pws4 06:06:39 <lethedrinker> are espians consultants? 06:07:06 <AaronSw> i believe the answer is "yes, if you pay them" 06:08:09 <AaronSw> And with that, dear friends, I must depart for the land of sleep. 06:08:16 <lethedrinker> sweet dreams 06:08:38 <AaronSw> thanks 06:08:43 <sbp> I will also go 06:09:04 <sbp> An IRC channel without Aaron Swartz in it is like T.V. without The Simpsons 06:09:16 <tav`> maybe for you sbp ;p 06:09:25 <sbp> heh 06:09:26 <sbp> Gotta run 06:09:28 <AaronSw> lol 06:09:32 <AaronSw> c'ya 06:09:33 <sbp> sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 06:09:39 <tav`> g'nite aaron 06:09:53 <tav`> i feel real good today 06:11:21 <lethedrinker> so are espians just in it for the love of the game, or is there an actual profit motive behind the organization? 06:12:39 <tav`> * tav` looks to deltab and AaronSw 06:13:12 <tav`> we last paid deltab a salary 9 months ago 06:13:41 <lethedrinker> wow, must have been a fat paycheck ;) 06:13:55 <lethedrinker> * lethedrinker forgets the question for latter. 06:14:00 <lethedrinker> just curious. 06:14:06 <tav`> safe to say, espians are in it for the love 06:14:25 <tav`> we want to make a true change to the world 06:15:01 <tav`> re: money, for us to achieve the espian vision, we need a lot of resources 06:15:33 <tav`> we are talking more resources than bill gates can buy here 06:16:08 <tav`> so, esp will be making a lot of money along the way 06:16:37 <tav`> read.... 06:16:41 <tav`> .google espian model 06:16:42 <xena> espian model: http://tav.espians.com/espian_model_chat 06:16:43 <lethedrinker> ah.. so everyone here is young and idealistic. 06:17:06 <tav`> we have some old and idealistic individuals too ;p 06:17:12 <tav`> .wn idealistic 06:17:14 <xena> idealistic defined as: 06:17:15 <xena> - adj 1: of or relating to the philosophical doctrine of the reality of ideas [syn: {ideal}] 06:17:16 <xena> - 2: represented in the abstract rather than as they really are [syn: {ideal}] 06:17:17 <xena> - 3: of high moral or intellectual value; elevated in nature or style; "an exalted ideal"; "argue in terms of high-flown ideals"- Oliver Franks; "a noble and lofty concept" [syn: {exalted}, {high-flown}, {high-minded}, {lofty}, {rarefied}, {rarified}, {noble-minded}] 06:17:26 <lethedrinker> is there a license preference among espians? 06:17:44 <tav`> idealist in definition 3 rather than 1 06:17:56 <tav`> gpl / lgpl 06:18:15 <tav`> although we might be redefining the lgpl sometime 06:19:58 <lethedrinker> so would i become an espian if wanted to change the world (still idealistic (although possibly fading), and relatively young (old in heart):) 06:20:49 <tav`> sure, would be welcome to 06:21:10 <tav`> do you code? 06:21:55 <tav`> or rather, what can you code in? 06:22:02 <tav`> and to what level? 06:24:56 <lethedrinker> at all levels. 06:25:15 <lethedrinker> in many different things ;) 06:25:20 <lethedrinker> sorry, let me rephrase. 06:25:54 <lethedrinker> python guru, zope guru, java expert, c++ newbie, c good, perl hate:)., tcl expert, 06:26:00 <lethedrinker> acs expert 06:26:25 <lethedrinker> graphical tk - gtk, tcl, qt (last is preferred) 06:26:36 <lethedrinker> relational - oracle very good, pg very good. 06:26:43 <lethedrinker> network programming expert 06:26:55 <lethedrinker> xml excellent. 06:26:57 <lethedrinker> sigh. 06:27:06 <tav`> heh 06:27:22 <lethedrinker> i could go on, but its boring... isn't it. 06:27:33 <tav`> ocaml ? 06:27:53 <lethedrinker> no. seen it. trying to pick up haskell though. 06:28:15 <lethedrinker> is ocaml a functional language? 06:28:24 <tav`> yes 06:28:46 <tav`> it's quite a nice mix 06:29:09 <lethedrinker> hmm.. interesting i'll look it over, i wanted to pick up a pure functional language, one with syntax more agreeable to me than lisp. 06:29:26 <lethedrinker> i know its fast, and typed, and compiled, and french ;) 06:29:46 <tav`> scheme? ;p 06:30:24 <tav`> i've also been looking at oz, but not enough time to spend on that 06:30:38 <lethedrinker> e-rights looked interesting as well. d 06:30:43 <lethedrinker> sorry e-lang. 06:31:04 <tav`> yea, e's cool 06:31:09 <tav`> zooko is all over e 06:31:40 <deltab> 'e-lang' isn't a great way to refer to it, since there's at least one other E language 06:31:57 <tav`> 'e' ;p 06:31:58 <lethedrinker> yah, the other thing about me is, i have my fingers in alot of stuff. 06:32:07 <lethedrinker> does 'e' real do the job of a name though. 06:32:18 <tav`> for me, yea 06:32:34 <deltab> http://wouter.fov120.com/e/ 06:32:49 <tav`> if you hadn't said erights b4 though, i might have thought of erlang 06:34:36 <tav`> hmz, never heard of that b4 deltab 06:35:52 <lethedrinker> tav`: isn't rdf guru level knowledge a requirement for espies. 06:36:15 <tav`> espies? that's new 06:36:17 <deltab> no, thank goodness 06:36:20 <tav`> and, no 06:54:57 <tav`> ROFL 06:54:59 <tav`> http://www.ourfavoritesongs.com/users/tav@espnow.com 06:56:55 <lethedrinker> lethedrinker is now known as hazmat 06:58:49 <hazmat> .wn rights 07:01:05 <hazmat> xena where are you 07:01:11 <hazmat> .seen xena 07:01:12 <xena> xena seen in xena saying: [ dataflake seen joining #zope ~ 15 hr(s) 15 min(s) 19 sec(s) ago ] ~ 1 day(s) 17 hr(s) 25 min(s) 7 sec(s) ago 07:01:29 <hazmat> ahh restricted function of some sort. 07:19:49 <deltab> http://crazyapplerumor.blogspot.com/ 07:21:41 <deltab> or http://crazyapplerumors.com/ as it will be 07:38:50 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:39:19 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 07:39:55 <tcollen> tcollen (manero@mplsdslgw8D155.mpls.uswest.net) has joined #swhack 07:41:54 <tcollen> hello party people 07:44:23 <tcollen> tcollen has quit (Client Quit) 07:44:59 <tcollen> tcollen (manero@mplsdslgw8D155.mpls.uswest.net) has joined #swhack 08:18:24 <tav`> heh 08:18:26 <tav`> heyas tcollen 08:18:57 <tav`> i'm afraid i disagree with you ;p 08:19:23 <tav`> on the topic of unschooling that is 08:19:38 <tav`> microsoft make an irc client? 08:19:40 <tav`> * tav` shudders 08:24:59 <tcollen> ha 08:25:08 <tcollen> keep versioning me 08:25:35 <tcollen> it's random 08:27:59 <tcollen> anyway, that's cool 08:28:43 <tcollen> i just don't know if it's appropriate in every situation 08:28:49 <tcollen> to each his own, eh 08:29:30 <tav`> * tav` shudders 08:29:35 <tav`> oh 08:30:04 <tav`> nice script 08:30:07 <tcollen> heh =] 08:30:13 <tav`> had me real worried there 08:30:32 <tav`> i recall trying out microsoft chat once, and coming out quite distraught 08:30:34 <tcollen> apropos, microsoft comic chat uses irc 08:30:35 <tcollen> yeah 08:30:36 <tcollen> haha 08:30:59 <tcollen> plus all the commands it spews to the channel are all annoying 08:31:31 <tav`> i've blanked the experience out of mind. it was horrifying ;p 08:31:35 <tcollen> heheh 08:31:45 <tav`> so, how'd you find out about #swhack ? 08:31:59 <tcollen> tracked down through aaron's many pages 08:32:03 <tav`> ah 08:32:13 <tcollen> he mentioned the irc network so i got on and just did a whois for him 08:32:27 <tcollen> the channel isnt +s so it showed up 08:33:06 <tav`> cunning 08:33:40 <tcollen> once i had a guy track me down from a .bash_history i left at an old job. that was scary 08:35:53 <tcollen> anyway, it's 2:30am and i have work tomorrow. i'm gonna hit the sack 08:41:55 <tav`> g'nite 09:24:26 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:37:06 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:11:15 <tcollen> tcollen has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:18:38 <tansaku2> tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:18:50 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:31:09 <tansaku2> tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 10:57:44 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:13:27 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:15:47 <tansaku2> tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:51:25 <tav`> tav` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:53:42 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 12:57:02 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:04:42 <AaronSw> 'Serves 6-8. And by "6-8", we mean "6". And by "6", we mean "2".' 14:23:40 <tansaku2> tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:07:04 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m767-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 15:10:24 <sbp> * sbp jumps 15:10:39 <sbp> I was just scanning mail without reading it, and noticed my name :-) 15:10:43 <sbp> [[[ 15:10:44 <sbp> Postal addresses 15:10:44 <sbp> I found a discussion on this mailing list from March 2001 containing a 15:10:44 <sbp> proposal from Sean B. Palmer and I was wondering if this was taken any 15:10:45 <sbp> further. 15:11:09 <sbp> ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2002Jan/0018 15:44:55 <tav`> martin cannon? 15:46:59 <tav`> ralph nader? 15:47:08 <tav`> george bush?? 15:47:23 <tav`> and rush! 15:52:46 <tav`> woo! 15:53:00 <tav`> i get my first radio link! 15:53:16 <tav`> go scoble! 15:53:45 <sbp> wow, from Scoble? 15:54:11 <tav`> http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011 15:54:40 <sbp> heh, neat: "4. Aaron Swartz 228" 15:55:11 <tav`> sweet 15:55:15 <sbp> ooh, you're quoted right at the top 15:55:31 <AaronSw> heh heh 15:55:40 <sbp> good idea: "what we should really be doing is emailing _into_ radio" 15:56:07 <sbp> Hi Aaron 15:57:18 <sbp> ooh, nice design: http://www.carlhuber.com/ 15:57:57 <tav`> now all i need is for aaron, wes and ozzie to linkto me! 15:58:12 <sbp> hint, hint 15:58:20 <tav`> ;p 15:59:01 <tav`> i swear people just view ozzie for the name 15:59:13 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:59:13 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:59:37 <tav`> ah 15:59:42 <tav`> dave linked 15:59:59 <sbp> lol @ "I guess it all depends on how you define weird." 16:01:06 <sbp> ooh, did Radio just fold? 16:01:52 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h134-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:01:52 <deus_x> deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 16:01:52 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 16:01:56 <tav`> tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 16:02:37 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:04:12 <AaronSw> lol: http://www.futurefeedforward.com/ 16:05:15 <AaronSw> bit of a stretch: "We invented this format in collaboration with Netscape. " 16:11:03 <tav`> tav` has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 16:12:05 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 16:12:23 <AaronSw> wow, i beat wes! 16:12:28 <sbp> heh, heh, that's rather good. I like the buckyball and socket joints 16:12:36 <AaronSw> 3.  Aaron Swartz 242 16:12:40 <sbp> ooh! 16:14:49 <AaronSw> and death is no parenthesis 16:15:05 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 16:15:52 <sbp> Kishore: "Namaste Aaron Swartz" 16:17:02 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:17:06 <AaronSw> ooh: http://ourfavoritesongs.com/users/joeri@mulder.com/dilbert.xml 16:17:35 <tav`> tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 16:18:15 <sbp> what, what? 16:18:21 <AaronSw> hmm, doesn't work tho 16:18:47 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:22:29 <AaronSw> Hmm, what do I call thinks like this: "i could of course send off an email to the radio-userland mailing list with the same suggestions. but that breaks the whole model. or at least it does so from my point of view." 16:22:39 <AaronSw> elitism of metaphor? tyranny of the medium? 16:22:47 <AaronSw> lack of worse is better? 16:23:45 <AaronSw> not thinking outside the protocol? 16:38:51 <AaronSw> .gogle imac dance 16:38:58 <AaronSw> .google imac dance 16:39:00 <xena> imac dance: http://h002078c7889d.ne.mediaone.net/~overstim/imacdance 16:40:15 <AaronSw> http://h002078c7889d.ne.mediaone.net/~overstim/imacdance/ + http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/features/story.jsp?story=114276 16:40:53 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m19-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 16:41:12 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m19-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:41:27 <AaronSw> http://h002078c7889d.ne.mediaone.net/~overstim/imacdance/ + http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/features/story.jsp?story=114276 16:56:12 <AaronSw> Robb: "Is there a browser for OS X that implements XSL well?" 16:56:27 <AaronSw> does Mozilla? 16:59:13 <AaronSw> seems to http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xslt/ 17:00:29 <AaronSw> .google xslt service 17:00:32 <xena> xslt service: http://www.w3.org/2001/05/xslt 17:10:17 <sbp> yes, Mozilla does XSLT 17:10:17 <sbp> But not fully, I think 17:10:56 <AaronSw> hmmph 17:24:39 <tcollen> tcollen (manero@mplsdslgw8D155.mpls.uswest.net) has joined #swhack 17:24:49 <tcollen> hello secret hideout people 17:24:56 <tcollen> heh =] 17:25:10 <sbp> argh! 17:25:24 <sbp> quick, Aaron, pull up the ladder! 17:25:28 <tcollen> ha 17:25:37 <AaronSw> heh, heh, heh 17:26:16 <sbp> welcome, Tony 17:26:16 <tcollen> i can leave if it makes you don't want people around. i was here last night at like 3am but only tav was awake 17:26:44 <tcollen> anyway, yes, hello 17:27:04 <AaronSw> yeah, i'm not usually on at 3am 17:27:10 <sbp> oh yeah: 07:41:54 <tcollen> hello party people 17:27:14 <AaronSw> sbp is on at 3am english time, tho. 17:27:26 <sbp> [cite: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-14.txt] 17:27:28 <sbp> Yep, GMT 17:30:08 <sbp> so, what can we do you for? 17:30:48 <tcollen> just wanted to pop in and say hi and hang out for a bit before i run off to work 17:31:06 <AaronSw> what time zone you in? PST? 17:31:06 <AaronSw> .time pst 17:31:07 <xena> Jan. 14, 2002 9:32 am US/Pacific 17:31:20 <tcollen> CST 17:31:34 <AaronSw> ah, me too. you get to work rather late, then. ;-) 17:31:44 <AaronSw> I think I should switch to PST -- it'd give me more time in the day. 17:31:59 <AaronSw> it'd sort of annoy the other people in the house tho 17:32:06 <AaronSw> * AaronSw goes and switches all the clocks 17:32:17 <sbp> nah, just go to bed later 17:32:21 <tcollen> i have a lax work schedule... i'm a student and i work part time. can't fit a full day of work and school in together 17:33:17 <tcollen> ok that's weird seeing my stuff in a realtime log heh 17:33:31 <AaronSw> hee hhee 17:33:40 <AaronSw> now i just need to feed it into radio 17:34:27 <tcollen> haha, i was thinking of hacking together hourly irc logs into an rss stream 17:34:34 <sbp> man, that'd be sweet. Just do a txt2voice, and make a feed of it 17:34:37 <tcollen> so i dont even have to have a client open 17:36:39 <sbp> so, tc, what kinda stuff are you into? 17:36:55 <tcollen> work wise or school wise? 17:37:17 <sbp> um... hobby wise. I couldn't give a crap about what you're forced to do 17:38:28 <sbp> unless your hobbies and your work/studies overlap. It's always great when that happens 17:38:47 <AaronSw> well, not always 17:39:11 <sbp> O.K., not always... but I find it difficult to devote myself to a task (i.e. do it at all) unless it's something that I find interesting. When they overlap, it often makes it easier 17:39:16 <tcollen> there's actually a ton of overlap 17:39:23 <tcollen> sbp yeah 17:39:35 <tcollen> if i wasn't doing web development & programming at my job i'd hate it 17:40:43 <sbp> and journalism? or is that strictly a ham? 17:41:14 <tcollen> nah, i'm interested in it 17:41:37 <AaronSw> wow, already 1085 RU8 weblogs 17:41:57 <tcollen> i'm in the j-school at umn.edu 17:42:55 <sbp> if you don't mind me asking (or even if you do), how old are you? I'm 19, and Aaron floats about 14/15, depending upon Winer's opinion 17:43:04 <tcollen> i'm 23 17:43:14 <sbp> pff, old man 17:43:16 <tcollen> haha 17:43:17 <sbp> :-) 17:44:06 <tcollen> i get that a lot... i'm one of the oldest among my circle of friends 17:45:07 <AaronSw> tav, when were you born? 17:46:09 <tcollen> right now my work and hobbies are leaning towards xml and xslt and content management. i played with radio 8 and had a heart attack at how nice it was 17:46:30 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m50-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 17:46:47 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m50-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:46:50 <AaronSw> Radio 8: Killing Blogger users one heart attack at a time. 17:46:58 <tcollen> exactly 17:47:46 <tcollen> blogger would be a little bit nicer if it ran locally like radio does 17:48:17 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:48:27 <tcollen> radio would be a little bit nicer if it let you write valid xhtml and didn't use <font> tags all the time 17:48:40 <AaronSw> radio doesn't let you write valid xhtml? 17:48:46 <BenSw|School> BenSw|School (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 17:49:03 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m265-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:49:04 <BenSw|School> f 17:49:04 <AaronSw> hey BenSw|away 17:49:09 <AaronSw> err BenSw|School 17:49:11 <BenSw|School> hello 17:49:14 <tcollen> in WYSIWYG mode it tends to screw tags up 17:49:32 <AaronSw> oh -- that's IE not radio 17:50:37 <tcollen> weird. i had it remove the quotes around attribute values and change some attributes to uppercase 17:50:52 <tcollen> and a lot of the tags it writes are in uppercase, too 17:50:57 <BenSw|School> Hi sbp 17:51:07 <sbp> Hi there, Ben 17:51:18 <BenSw|School> Whats up sbp 17:51:36 <sbp> Just lamenting my connection, and playing the guitar 17:51:53 <BenSw|School> Heh, heh, heh 17:52:05 <sbp> I found that breaking a string was actually beneficial - I'm finding some great songs in this super-low tuning 17:52:14 <BenSw|School> g2g the library is kicking me out 17:52:27 <sbp> heh, c'ya 17:52:52 <sbp> Libraries should be open 24/7 17:52:52 <BenSw|School> BenSw|School has quit (Remote closed the connection) 17:53:48 <AaronSw> yeah, that'd be cool 17:56:15 <sbp> Gotta run 17:56:19 <sbp> Nice speaking with you, tc 17:56:23 <sbp> c'ya 17:56:24 <tcollen> * tcollen bows 17:57:31 <tcollen> speaking of which, i should probably go bike to work now 17:57:51 <tcollen> bbl i suppose, nice speaking with you, aaron =] 17:57:52 <AaronSw> c'ya 17:57:58 <AaronSw> same here 17:58:13 <AaronSw> * AaronSw checks in initial Chord stuff: http://cvs.plexdev.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/plex/plex/chord/ 17:58:22 <tcollen> tcollen has quit ("IRCjr IRC Client for IBM PCjr version six") 18:05:21 <AaronSw> Email: "Greetings from the community server for Radio UserLand 8.0." 18:16:48 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:26:45 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m35-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:27:38 <sbp> Chord stuff, Chord stuff! 18:29:06 <AaronSw> yeah, go chord! 18:29:43 <sbp> Hmm... it doesn't even run 18:30:14 <sbp> what's this meant to be: while id not in (n2, n2.successor]: 18:30:16 <sbp> dear oh dear 18:30:46 <sbp> and: def finger[k].interval: 18:31:45 <sbp> ugh, it doesn't run at all 18:32:16 <sbp> there's lots of (] stuff 18:32:18 <AaronSw> it's not meant to run 18:32:27 <AaronSw> yeah, i haven't translated (] to python yet 18:32:34 <AaronSw> which side is inclusive, again? 18:32:49 <sbp> () is non-assignable 18:33:18 <AaronSw> no, it's not a list, it's a range 18:34:11 <sbp> I dunno - your Python knowledge is far in excess of mine 18:34:33 <AaronSw> this has nothing to do with python! 18:34:42 <AaronSw> it's a math concept 18:35:07 <AaronSw> i think it's calculus, which i haven't taken yet 18:35:55 <sbp> * sbp did quite a bit of calculus 18:36:13 <AaronSw> do you know what i'm talking about, then? 18:36:21 <sbp> I've got no idea 18:36:28 <AaronSw> hmm. 18:36:54 <AaronSw> it's a bunch of space on the number line, like everything between 0 and 5. 18:37:11 <sbp> oh, a *range*. I've got you now 18:37:30 <AaronSw> isn't that what i said? <AaronSw> no, it's not a list, it's a range 18:37:55 <sbp> O.K., so n2 and n2.successor marks the bounds for the range that you're integrating over? 18:38:18 <AaronSw> NameError: integrating not bound 18:38:39 <AaronSw> i just need to see if it's between those two points on the number line 18:38:51 <AaronSw> (actually it's a number circle, mod 512) 18:39:01 <sbp> ah, right 18:39:16 <AaronSw> how do you write an inclusive range? [5, 9]? 18:39:52 <sbp> so it's just something like def in(x, y, z): if (x > y) and (x < z): return 1; else: return 0 18:40:08 <sbp> do range(5, 9) 18:40:16 <sbp> but that'll return a list of integers 18:40:38 <AaronSw> hmm... will i need higher granularity than that? 18:40:45 <AaronSw> chord does it thusly: 18:40:46 <AaronSw> if (a == b) { 18:40:46 <AaronSw> r = n != a; // n is the only node not in the interval (n,n) 18:40:47 <AaronSw> } else if (a < b) { 18:40:47 <AaronSw> r = (n > a) && (n < b); 18:40:47 <AaronSw> } else { 18:40:48 <AaronSw> r = (n > a) || (n < b); 18:40:50 <AaronSw> } 18:40:57 <AaronSw> chord_util.C that is 18:41:30 <sbp> just copy that, then 18:41:44 <AaronSw> i think the extra stuff might be in there to deal with the modular arithmetic 18:42:07 <AaronSw> but here's the problem: i need to know whether (1, 2] is right-side inclusive or left-side inclusive 18:42:49 <sbp> what do you mean by "left-side inclusive"? 18:43:01 <AaronSw> * AaronSw asks #math 18:43:02 <AaronSw> <ChanServ> Notice: [#math] This is a chemistry channel 18:43:20 <AaronSw> left side inclusive: i.e. the left side of the range is included in the range 18:43:35 <AaronSw> so 5,9 would be everything > 5 and <= 9 18:43:44 <AaronSw> as opposed to just > 5 and < 9 18:44:13 <sbp> ah, right 18:45:18 <sbp> or it could be both or neither side inclusive 18:45:37 <AaronSw> yeah. exclusive, perhaps 18:45:41 <sbp> * sbp forgets the proper terminology 18:45:50 <AaronSw> http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/1.2/docs/api/javax/swing/table/AbstractTableModel.html seems to indicate [] is inclusive 18:46:01 <AaronSw> but who can trust java? 18:46:07 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 18:47:16 <sbp> heh. My predictions for today - either #math is going to change to "only ops set topic", or I'm going to be banned altogether 18:47:32 <sbp> [[[ 18:47:34 <sbp> *** Now talking in #math 18:47:39 <sbp> [...] 18:47:40 <sbp> *** sbp changes topic to 'Geography discussion channel' 18:47:42 <sbp> ]]] - #math 18:49:27 <AaronSw> maybe deltab knows 18:50:07 <sbp> I presume that you're wondering if [] in C is inclusive? 18:50:50 <AaronSw> nothing to do with C 18:53:04 <sbp> so you mean [5, 9] in Python? is that inclusive? 18:53:09 <sbp> that's just a list 18:53:30 <sbp> integrals are inclusive, AFAIK 18:53:35 <AaronSw> yeah, it's just a list. 18:53:50 <AaronSw> i mean in mathematical notation is [4, 5] inclusive 18:53:59 <sbp> ah 18:57:11 <sbp> * sbp hasn't come across that set syntax before 18:58:34 <sbp> Gotta run 18:58:35 <sbp> sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 19:21:37 <deltab> (exclusive), [inclusive] -- http://id.mind.net/~zona/mmts/miscellaneousMath/intervalNotation/intervalNotation.html 19:21:49 <AaronSw> cool, thanks 19:21:58 <AaronSw> how'd you find that? 19:22:06 <AaronSw> ah, it's called an interval 19:22:26 <deltab> yeah, I'd forgotten that too 19:28:09 <hazmat> hazmat is now known as lethedrinker 19:29:50 <AaronSw> lethedrinker, yoo key attributes for being an espian: you have a funny nick, and you're in #zopelethe 19:30:01 <lethedrinker> ;) 19:30:50 <AaronSw> is your name really ender? 19:31:56 <lethedrinker> what can i say my parents liked OSC. ;) , not tis kapil 19:32:10 <AaronSw> Oh, aha1 19:32:21 <AaronSw> Kapil Thaevefvklrfhuienlu? 19:32:29 <AaronSw> apologies if i mispelled your name ;-) 19:32:36 <lethedrinker> yes, that is the common spelling. 19:32:44 <AaronSw> heh. 19:33:21 <AaronSw> Thangavelu 19:33:22 <lethedrinker> if any you folks are at ipc10, it would be nice to meet. 19:33:24 <lethedrinker> yup. 19:33:44 <lethedrinker> .google kapil and python 19:33:46 <AaronSw> OK, i see you all over then 19:33:47 <xena> kapil and python: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/catalog-sig/801308 19:33:52 <lethedrinker> doh. 19:34:10 <AaronSw> IPC is PyCon? 19:34:20 <lethedrinker> yes, international python conference. 19:34:35 <AaronSw> yeah, don't think i'll be able to make that 19:34:41 <lethedrinker> i mainly tend to stick to the zope lists. 19:34:48 <lethedrinker> although i track lots of places. 19:34:49 <AaronSw> i hope i'll be able to get an ogg/mp3 of tim's talk, tho 20:01:33 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m954-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:06:15 <sbp> ooh, Dave replied: http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$7546#7659 20:07:56 <sbp> * sbp wonders what list 20:08:34 <sbp> I suppose the famous "Winer TODO list [* eradicate RSS 1.0 from the face of the earth * Promote R8]" 20:11:48 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m336-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 20:12:09 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m336-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:14:12 <AaronSw> lol, you made HTP! http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6874 20:17:19 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m126-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 20:17:38 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m126-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:17:49 <AaronSw> lol, you made HTP! http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6874 20:18:04 <sbp> <sbp> hooray! 20:19:25 <sbp> But Wes is right: I think that you should get a free mug if you purchase R8 20:33:18 <AaronSw> definitely 20:34:30 <AaronSw> Dave'll probably wait until like a week after it expires for that promotion. 20:42:26 <sbp> heh, yeah 20:50:46 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m172-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:51:04 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m172-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:52:18 <AaronSw> heh! a good use for patents: http://www.satn.org/archive/2002_01_13_archive.html#8659054 20:55:12 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m675-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 20:55:29 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m675-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:03:26 <AaronSw> @ http://www.frankston.com/public/essays/DNSSafeHaven.asp 21:03:52 <chumpster> C: http://www.frankston.com/public/essays/DNSSafeHaven.asp from AaronSw 21:04:00 <AaronSw> C:|DNS Safe Haven 21:04:01 <chumpster> titled item C 21:05:26 <AaronSw> C::Bob Frankston suggests we partition off a piece of the DNS for permanent, unchanable identifiers. 21:05:27 <chumpster> commented item C 21:06:04 <AaronSw> C::I think this is a great idea. We could create a TLD (.key or .id) and hand out random 40-character alphanumeric strings. 21:06:05 <chumpster> commented item C 21:07:39 <sbp> 40 char? 21:07:44 <AaronSw> C::They'd look like this: a4fge6tha4odmg8915th57jw6j8yhf5w5h8rn87g.id and we'd have 178689910246017054531432477289437798228285773001601743140683776 of them. They're perfectly compatible wiith all existing technologies. 21:07:46 <chumpster> commented item C 21:08:41 <sbp> C::Why not have 10-char? They'd be practically memorable, and you'd have 3,656,158,440,062,976 combinations 21:08:45 <chumpster> commented item C 21:09:25 <sbp> http://nuwfg89w5g.id/ is a bit better, IMO :-) 21:09:40 <AaronSw> Good point. 21:09:55 <AaronSw> C::Good point. We could start at 10 and add more as necessary. 21:10:00 <chumpster> commented item C 21:10:13 <sbp> good ol' extensibility 21:10:20 <AaronSw> C::It's a very nice combination of the persistence of UUIDs with the lookup service of DNS. 21:10:21 <chumpster> commented item C 21:10:49 <AaronSw> C::Great for XML namespaces, the W3C website, and plain old PURLs. 21:10:53 <chumpster> commented item C 21:11:38 <AaronSw> C::Ten characters would look like: [http://nuwfg89w5g.id/] 21:11:39 <chumpster> commented item C 21:11:59 <kenm> kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 21:12:06 <kenm> * kenm waves 21:12:11 <AaronSw> hey kenm 21:12:17 <AaronSw> we're just discussing permanent random DNS identifiers. 21:12:25 <sbp> Hi Ken 21:13:27 <kenm> saw that. might want to put them in levels, and then possibly using one of the "pronouncable password generator" like things to generate them, so you get something like moo.win.id 21:13:30 <sbp> C::cf. [http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/PersistentDomains|PersistentDomains] in DesignIssues, and [http://logicerror.com/MeRS|MeRS] 21:13:35 <chumpster> commented item C 21:13:42 <AaronSw> Yeah, MeMS. 21:13:50 <sbp> MeRS 21:14:01 <AaronSw> I was close. 21:14:14 <AaronSw> The problem with that is people would fight over whoever got cool.id or something like that. 21:14:22 <tav`> tav` has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 21:14:37 <AaronSw> mers: http://logicerror.com/mers 21:14:44 <sbp> you could ban any combination of characters that match words in the OED 21:14:57 <deltab> not least the Indonesians 21:15:13 <AaronSw> Yeah, but then folks would fight over fnargle 21:15:20 <AaronSw> or coo.ool.id 21:15:30 <sbp> no, only we'd fight over fnargle 21:15:32 <kenm> ah, but since they're handed out randomly, you'd have to wait until somebody "got" a good one before you could buy it from them, or you'd have to pay thru the nose to buy hundreds of domains before you got a good one 21:15:36 <sbp> you wouldn't allow "." 21:15:53 <sbp> got: exactly. That's the problem - someone will get one 21:16:05 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:16:07 <AaronSw> kenm, that's the problem tho: I get a good one and put up photos of my cat, then microsoft pays me $3bn to give it to them 21:16:20 <tav`> tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 21:16:24 <kenm> yah, and? ;) 21:16:36 <AaronSw> well we wouldn't have persistence 21:16:37 <sbp> microsoft1.id 21:16:55 <AaronSw> mycrowsawft.id 21:17:06 <sbp> heh 21:17:25 <sbp> of course, this will never happen. NetSol et al. are probably making stacks of money out of this 21:17:35 <kenm> and you can't see someone buying deadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeef.id? 21:17:36 <sbp> and it costs to change IP details etc. 21:18:08 <kenm> or 123wild456blond789chicks.id 21:18:11 <AaronSw> kenm, well anything that looks realistic we toss out. 21:18:12 <sbp> nope, more than 10 characters 21:18:43 <sbp> <sbp> you could ban any combination of characters that match words in the OED 21:18:56 <kenm> yah, like mycrowsawft.id 21:19:28 <kenm> 3l33t.id 21:19:30 <AaronSw> of course that'd require netsol guys to learn l33t speak, so maybe it isn't such a good idea 21:19:34 <AaronSw> heh, jinx 21:19:40 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 21:19:59 <sbp> now you can't talk till somebody says your name, kenm 21:20:02 <sbp> oh, crap 21:20:04 <AaronSw> mealling speaks l33t, doesn't he? 21:20:13 <sbp> does he? 21:20:34 <AaronSw> oops, i've said too much 21:21:36 <sbp> :-) 21:24:37 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:24:51 <kenm> hmm, is this convo related to the wmf link to SATN? 21:24:55 <AaronSw> yeah 21:26:59 <AaronSw> Call me crazy, but I think this decade will be the Singularity decade. 21:27:12 <sbp> You're crazy 21:27:23 <AaronSw> Internet took twenty years, the Web took ten, the next one will take five, then 2.5, then 1, then half of one.... singularity by 2012 21:29:18 <kenm> I missed the "google as name server" thread y'day, but that seems like a particularly unworkable idea 21:29:18 <AaronSw> why's that? 21:29:18 <sbp> the Plex will that five years? argh 21:29:18 <sbp> s/that/take/ 21:29:19 <kenm> "better keywords" != better namespace 21:29:19 <AaronSw> oh, yeah. 21:29:19 <kenm> the main essay on SATN seems to be favoring the Google search method 21:29:19 <AaronSw> Hmm. 21:29:19 <AaronSw> I like the "I'm feeling lucky" document server idea. 21:29:19 <kenm> heh 21:29:19 <AaronSw> i wonder where that site went... they were originally using altavista, but it'd clearly work very nicely with google 21:29:45 <deltab> decade?! 21:29:57 <deltab> I've been planning on three 21:30:03 <kenm> which site? 21:30:06 <deltab> decades 21:30:13 <AaronSw> three decades? 21:30:24 <AaronSw> the site that generated an "i'm feeling lucky" string 21:30:29 <deltab> yeah, 2030 or so 21:30:39 <AaronSw> hmm, i thought it was 2012... 21:30:43 <AaronSw> * AaronSw checks calendae 21:30:47 <kenm> * kenm is missing the reference 21:31:01 <AaronSw> the mayans and druggies thought the world would end in 20something 21:31:30 <deltab> the world as we know it now 21:31:51 <deltab> it'll be replaced by something different 21:31:58 <AaronSw> http://survive2012.com/why2012maya.html 21:33:07 <deltab> bah, numerology 21:33:28 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m384-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 21:33:48 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m384-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:35:02 <sbp> [[[ 21:35:06 <sbp> REGEDIT4 21:35:07 <sbp> [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Command] 21:35:07 <sbp> @="\"C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1\\iexplore.exe\" -nohome" 21:35:07 <sbp> [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Ddeexec] 21:35:07 <sbp> @="\"http://www.google.com/search?q=%1&btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky\",,-1,0,,,," 21:35:08 <sbp> "NoActivateHandler"="" 21:35:09 <sbp> [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Ddeexec\Application] 21:35:11 <sbp> @="IExplore" 21:35:15 <sbp> [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns\Shell\Open\Ddeexec\Topic] 21:35:15 <sbp> @="WWW_OpenURL" 21:35:17 <sbp> [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\gdns] 21:35:19 <sbp> @="URL:Gdns Protocol" 21:35:21 <sbp> "EditFlags"=dword:02000000 21:35:23 <sbp> "URL Protocol"="" 21:35:25 <sbp> ]]] - gdns.reg 21:35:39 <sbp> No guarantees. If it fucks up your registy, don't blame me 21:35:40 <AaronSw> heh 21:36:28 <kenm> gotta run, ttyl 21:36:29 <kenm> kenm has quit ("Leaving") 21:36:31 <AaronSw> aha: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wilensky/robust-hyperlinks.html 21:40:27 <AaronSw> so basically you run their little program and append it to http://www.google.com/search?btnI=1&q= 21:40:43 <sbp> Yeah 21:41:00 <AaronSw> too bad it's in java 21:41:32 <AaronSw> ah, heres an online version: http://dlp.cs.berkeley.edu:8080/cgi-bin/hchen/computesignature.pl 21:42:58 <sbp> .google subregularities blobworld interlib multivalent cqf wilensky residu narciso bair jaramillo 21:42:59 <xena> subregularities blobworld interlib multivalent cqf wilensky residu narciso bair jaramillo: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wilensky 21:43:03 <sbp> :-) 21:43:14 <AaronSw> @ isbn:0312862075 21:43:15 <chumpster> D: isbn:0312862075 from AaronSw 21:43:29 <AaronSw> D:|True Names: And the Opening of the Cyberspace Frontier 21:43:32 <chumpster> titled item D 21:43:46 <AaronSw> D::I ordered this book [from Amazon|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312862075/coolbooks02] about five years ago. 21:43:47 <chumpster> commented item D 21:44:02 <AaronSw> D::Somewhere along the way I got tired of waiting and downloaded it off MojoNation. 21:44:03 <chumpster> commented item D 21:44:26 <sbp> .google swhack html nounism seanpalmer infomesh rdfig mysterylights swad repurpose philisophical 21:44:26 <AaronSw> D::Last year, they sent us a letter saying that they'd ship the book to us in time for the holidays. 21:44:27 <xena> swhack html nounism seanpalmer infomesh rdfig mysterylights swad repurpose philisophical: http://www.purl.org/net/sbp 21:44:27 <chumpster> commented item D 21:44:44 <AaronSw> D::Unfortunately they sent it to our old address and I never got it. They sent us a new copy a few weeks ago. 21:44:47 <chumpster> commented item D 21:44:54 <sbp> heh, that is a rather obvious set of keywords to find me 21:44:59 <AaronSw> D::The introduction mentions the delay but doesn't explain it. 21:45:00 <chumpster> commented item D 21:45:01 <AaronSw> heh, no kidding. 21:45:18 <sbp> add "Simpsons", and you're there 21:45:31 <AaronSw> Google: "Did you mean: swhack html neonism sean palmer infomesh rdfig mysterylights swad repurpose philosophical" 21:45:40 <sbp> heh, heh 21:45:52 <sbp> .google html swhack chicagoforce changedpage logicerror rdfweb df4b blogspace d13f aaronsw 21:45:54 <xena> html swhack chicagoforce changedpage logicerror rdfweb df4b blogspace d13f aaronsw: http://www.aaronsw.com 21:46:01 <AaronSw> df4b? 21:46:16 <sbp> in your key 21:46:19 <AaronSw> aha 21:46:25 <sbp> (key fingerprint, rather) 21:47:39 <sbp> Hmm... now, those phrases may oneday return the #swhack archives instead :-) 21:47:45 <AaronSw> heh 21:48:12 <sbp> through the Plex, of course 21:48:28 <AaronSw> D::Overall it's a really nice book. Liberarianism, crypto anarchy, virtual worlds and AI all mixed in for good effect. Some of the essays tend to repeat earlier ones, but overall they're very interesting. 21:48:31 <chumpster> commented item D 21:48:43 <AaronSw> D::And of course "True Names" itself is an incredible story. 21:48:45 <chumpster> commented item D 21:49:23 <AaronSw> note to self: make key plexnames database map 'tav' to http://www.tav-alto-vuoto.it/ 21:49:35 <sbp> lol 21:49:42 <sbp> What does "tav" actually stand for? 21:49:58 <AaronSw> I don't think it stands for anything. 21:49:59 <sbp> .google tav 21:50:02 <xena> tav: http://www.tav.it 21:50:35 <sbp> Liberarianism? 21:50:54 <sbp> I misread that the first time around :-) 21:51:06 <AaronSw> Librarianism 21:51:14 <sbp> exactly 21:52:19 <sbp> Peanuts (on snoopy.com) is featuring a nice little sub-thread about Peppermint Patty having to wear a dress to school because they made her 21:52:24 <AaronSw> interesting: http://www.sciam.com/2002/0202issue/0202patents.html 21:52:30 <AaronSw> link? 21:52:42 <sbp> http://snoopy.com/ 21:52:45 <sbp> :-) 21:53:00 <sbp> Go to the archives, it's been running for about the last five days 21:54:05 <sbp> cool patents 21:54:50 <sbp> I should patent "Heh, heh, heh" as a method of emoting hillarity over the IRC protocol 21:55:11 <sbp> Gotta run 21:58:54 <AaronSw> c'ya 22:15:54 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:25:03 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m587-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:25:17 <AaronSw> * AaronSw reads up on Private Credentials 22:31:38 <sbp> what does def __str__ do? 22:31:51 <AaronSw> I think it defines the result of str(object) 22:32:58 <sbp> thanks 22:34:57 <AaronSw> what's <strong>Z</strong><sub>q</sub> mean? 22:35:12 <AaronSw> <strong>Z</strong> being the set of integers. 22:37:36 <AaronSw> If I write a crypto paper, it will star Alan and Barbara as "Alice and Bob have raised their prices after their incredible success among the crypto community." 22:37:58 <sbp> :-) 22:38:06 <sbp> * sbp is trying to find out what Zvq means 22:39:08 <sbp> it might be the qth member 22:39:33 <sbp> in fact, it almost certainly is 22:39:35 <AaronSw> hmm, that'd make it an integer, so why not just say q? 22:40:09 <AaronSw> it says: "Alice generates a [funny symbol a] at random from Z<sub>q</> during the issuing protocol." 22:40:13 <sbp> because Zq makes it explicitly an integer that is in Z 22:40:21 <AaronSw> Z is the set of integers! 22:40:24 <sbp> oh, heh 22:41:24 <AaronSw> maybe it's a prime group or something 22:41:26 <sbp> """For example, considering the universe of objects, U, one can define a set as a collection of elements that satisfy some property P(x). """ - http://www.neuronet.pitt.edu/~bogdan/research/fuzzy/f/section3_2.html 22:41:38 <sbp> argh, that didn't come out well 22:42:00 <sbp> set Sp elements x E U 22:42:19 <AaronSw> ah 22:44:12 <sbp> is Q(x) defined? 22:45:07 <AaronSw> no 22:45:26 <AaronSw> q is a prime order 22:45:33 <AaronSw> so it must mean integers in that prime order. 22:45:49 <sbp> there you go, then 22:45:54 <AaronSw> thanks 22:46:07 <sbp> * sbp didn't do anything 22:48:42 <AaronSw> oh, this is pretty cool. 22:50:53 <sbp> do tell 22:54:16 <AaronSw> so like you take all the information about you and throw them together with a random number to make your secret. 22:54:45 <AaronSw> then you go to your friendly verifier-guy, and he says, yep that's all true and generates a public key for you and signs it. 22:55:09 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m79-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 22:55:29 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m79-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:55:53 <AaronSw> so then you go to the bar and the bartender gives you a large random number. 22:56:06 <AaronSw> you sign it, and tell him your age and your public key. 22:56:17 <AaronSw> he verifies this and gives you a drink 22:57:19 <sbp> And that's better than conventional verification *why*? 22:57:33 <AaronSw> because the bartender never knows who you are! 22:57:54 <sbp> er... 22:57:55 <AaronSw> your data could have millions of bits in it: name, phone number, country of residence, dog's last name, but the bartender can't find out any of it 22:58:26 <sbp> I fail to see how that's an advantage - you could have an identity card stamped by some authority, with your picture on it 22:58:35 <sbp> lol @ dog's last name 22:58:38 <AaronSw> plus [handwaving] the verifier guy generates the public key and signs it without knowing how it's signed 22:58:39 <lethedrinker> how does he verify your age. 22:58:47 <AaronSw> err what the signed version looks like 22:58:55 <AaronSw> handwaving cuz i'm not at that section yet 22:59:11 <lethedrinker> * lethedrinker waves to all 22:59:17 <sbp> Hi 22:59:24 <AaronSw> sbp, ok, imagine you're voting in an election instead of getting a beer. 22:59:33 <AaronSw> over the internet 22:59:38 <sbp> Ah, O.K. 22:59:43 <sbp> cool 23:00:11 <AaronSw> no one can vote twice, but who you voted for remains a secret to all 23:00:12 <sbp> heh, if I took all of your wacky schemes at face value, it'd take all the fun out of it, now, wouldn't it? 23:01:06 <AaronSw> this has got to be the biggest privacy-preserving technology ever, imo 23:03:00 <sbp> c947b8ee5ce039ecdaca59d1a0052b04d7b5c4e6a00d7800f294798d934a1ad5 23:03:00 <sbp> 7e717192f41feefa404f1261b7d2dee3178cd915bb66417492f5284bfcd4961e 23:03:08 <sbp> oops, where did that come from? 23:03:10 <sbp> :-) 23:03:14 <AaronSw> safety in numbers: large prime numbers 23:03:25 <AaronSw> s/:/ --/ 23:33:13 <sbp> s/ --/ -/ 23:44:03 <lethedrinker> lethedrinker has left #swhack ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-15.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000112412�07421140571�011663� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:00:33 <tav`> i'm not a vacuum furnace you fuckers! 00:01:53 <tav`> * tav` stares at AaronSw re: singularity comment 00:02:16 <tav`> have i not been speaking to you enough? 00:02:36 <AaronSw> why? 00:02:37 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:02:51 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m79-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:06 <tav`> technology is not a solution by itself 00:03:41 <AaronSw> hmm, i don't think i've really heard you say that 00:03:56 <tav`> sure you have 00:04:01 <AaronSw> although it's plainly true 00:04:19 <tav`> i recall saying it just under a week ago 00:04:22 <AaronSw> well, you may have said it but I didn't register that you really believed it. 00:04:25 <tav`> though that instance might have been to para 00:04:32 <tav`> but, i say it often enough 00:05:29 <tav`> anyways, i really hate talking about the singularity 00:05:44 <AaronSw> why? 00:05:58 <tav`> last time, ended up with a 3 hour debate with someone 00:06:12 <AaronSw> imo, it's easier to believe in than your vision 00:06:29 <tav`> really? 00:06:33 <AaronSw> yeah 00:06:55 <tav`> my vision is realistic, it takes into account true social conditions 00:07:25 <AaronSw> technology getting better and better will have crazy consequences vs. a bunch of people are going to organize the world into a perfect utopia 00:09:57 <tav`> we should refer to that around 2009 sometime ;p 00:12:03 <AaronSw> i'm pretty confident that either the singularity will have occurred or the espian vision won't have 00:14:55 <tav`> so basically saying espian vision won't happen? 00:15:31 <AaronSw> no 00:15:49 <tav`> if my logic is right, your statement is only true if the singularity doesn't happen and espian vision does happen 00:15:49 <tav`> ? 00:15:57 <sbp> S || !EV 00:16:11 <AaronSw> yeah 00:16:22 <AaronSw> the opposite is: !S && EV 00:16:27 <AaronSw> by demorgan's law 00:17:47 <tav`> .py exec("def pt(s,e):\n\tif s == 1 or e == 0: print 'prediction true\n'") 00:17:49 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 00:18:23 <tav`> hmz 00:18:31 <tav`> .py exec("def pt(s,e):\n\tif s == 1 or e == 0: print 'prediction true'") 00:18:32 <xena> SyntaxError: invalid syntax 00:18:35 <tav`> hmzie 00:18:47 <tav`> what's wrong there? 00:18:50 <AaronSw> iow, you get the cash if in 2012 there's no singularity but there is an espian vision 00:19:10 <AaronSw> i'm just predicting that there will be a singularity before there's an espian vision, really 00:19:51 <tav`> i reckon the opposite, if that is, a singularity ever occurs 00:20:04 <tav`> or should that be 'the' ;p 00:20:27 <sbp> pt(0, 0): true; pt(0, 1): false; pt(1, 0): true; pt(1, 1): true 00:21:02 <tav`> oooh, cheers sbp 00:21:08 <sbp> np 00:21:13 <tav`> so, my logic is right! 00:21:16 <AaronSw> lol: 00:21:17 <AaronSw> >Come watch me and my friends experimenting live on webcam... 00:21:17 <AaronSw> ...or see Mr. Connolly experimenting live on IRC... 00:21:17 <AaronSw> - danja 00:21:25 <AaronSw> sbp, from who's point of view? 00:21:38 <AaronSw> mine, i assume 00:21:45 <AaronSw> i.e. if it's true, i win the bet 00:21:45 <sbp> I just ran all possible scenarios of tav's program 00:21:49 <AaronSw> ok 00:21:57 <tav`> pt = prediction true - for the prediction you made AaronSw 00:22:02 <AaronSw> ok 00:22:06 <sbp> I think that false gives the money to tav 00:22:12 <AaronSw> yep 00:22:12 <tav`> s = singularity, e = espian vision 00:22:46 <sbp> the only false is if there is an espian vision, but no singularity => your reasoning was correct 00:23:03 <tav`> hmz, i may have found another espian! a fairly well talented coder too 00:23:11 <AaronSw> who's that? 00:23:15 <sbp> well, a correct expression of your opinion. I'm staying out of the arguement :-) 00:23:22 <sbp> s/arguement/argument/ 00:23:26 <sbp> who? 00:23:44 <tav`> thelema 00:24:03 <sbp> thelema is ~thelema@adsl-65-65-200-131.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net * Edgar Friendly 00:24:22 <AaronSw> what channel? 00:24:32 <sbp> lol! I just got the www-talk mail 00:24:42 <sbp> that's hillarious 00:24:46 <sbp> no channels listed 00:24:48 <tav`> freenet'er / mnet'er 00:25:09 <AaronSw> *** on channels: #freenet 00:26:07 <sbp> * sbp sends appreciative note to danja 00:26:37 <sbp> [puzzlement] 00:26:42 <AaronSw> eh? 00:26:48 <AaronSw> it's quite a funny message 00:26:49 <sbp> walking into conversations halfway through is always fun 00:28:29 <tav`> hmz 00:28:49 <sbp> meaning of life, tav? 00:31:38 <AaronSw> anyone have a nice rss viewer for zooko? 00:35:34 <sbp> with 00:35:48 <sbp> channels? 00:35:56 <AaronSw> what? 00:36:09 <AaronSw> in freenet: 00:36:09 <AaronSw> <travis> what's FEC? 00:36:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> I 00:36:09 <AaronSw> <travis> ah, forward error correction 00:36:09 <AaronSw> <sbp> of 00:36:11 <AaronSw> <thelema> orasis: The splitting and FEC is going to have to be over a lot of pieces in freenet. 00:36:13 <sbp> sorry, must be a bad connection 00:40:56 <AaronSw> .status 00:40:57 <xena> server(s): 00:40:58 <xena> - irc.espnow.com:6667 - #bfn, #esp, #esp-core, #espra, #google, #plex, #xenadev 00:40:59 <xena> - adams.openprojects.net:6667 - #BRITS, #Brits, #CNN_Newsfeed, #Freenet, #InfoAnarchy, #OPenProjects, #OpenProjects, #Openprojects, #RDFIG, #ZOPE, #Zope, #brits, #erights, #esp, #espra, #freenet, #google, #infoAnarchy, #infoanarchy, #nowplaying, #openProjects, #openprojects, #openspace, #p2p-hackers, #plex, #python#lojban, #rdfig, #sbp, #swhack, #syndic8, #tj, #validator, #world-relations, 00:41:00 <xena> #xenadev, #zope 00:41:01 <xena> - irc.w3.org:6665 - #er, #sw, #swad, #swcg 00:41:02 <xena> module(s): 00:41:04 <xena> - execute, espra-alert, inet, isotime, seen, dict, esp_chanmon, temperature, autojoin, relay 00:41:04 <xena> - inet2 00:41:06 <xena> command triggers: "['.']" - python triggers: "['x', '.py', '.python']" 00:41:08 <xena> base logfile: "/home/services/bots/xena/creature/creature.log" 00:41:10 <AaronSw> why does it think its name is dB? 00:41:10 <xena> started: 2002/01/06 08:25:42 - uptime: 8 day(s) 16 hr(s) 17 min(s) 2 sec(s) 00:41:33 <AaronSw> I like how it's on #ZOPE, #Zope and #zope 00:42:05 <AaronSw> i wonder if i should restart it 00:44:39 <AaronSw> <tav`/#espra> we are an organisation intending to gather a lot of resources in order to fulfil our rather ambitious vision of changing the world on a truly fundamental level 00:50:59 <sbp> .google beland 00:51:01 <xena> beland: http://www.fort-smith.net 00:51:17 <AaronSw> .google mit beland 00:51:20 <xena> mit beland: http://www.mit.edu/~beland 00:52:10 <sbp> """Who am I, anyway? I am a scientist, journalist, activist, politician, hacker, philosopher, engineer. I am a thinker and a busybody; someone who cares, and somebody who does. I absorb, process, and move around information. I log in. Currently an undergraduate at MIT , I plan to graduate in June, 2001, and move to the San Francisco Bay Area after that.""" - http://web.mit.edu/beland/www/beland.html 00:56:26 <AaronSw> those sound like good google keywords 00:56:30 <AaronSw> for that script 00:56:46 <AaronSw> http://dlp.cs.berkeley.edu:8080/cgi-bin/hchen/computesignature.pl 00:57:12 <sbp> let's try it 00:58:30 <sbp> heh: ffnsnf unlameness christinadefalco cbeland affweb institvte cerebrate slipstick calpirg cogitate 01:02:06 <AaronSw> .google ffnsnf unlameness christinadefalco cbeland affweb institvte cerebrate slipstick calpirg cogitate 01:02:08 <xena> ffnsnf unlameness christinadefalco cbeland affweb institvte cerebrate slipstick calpirg cogitate: http://web.mit.edu/beland/www/beland.html 01:05:58 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m20-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:06:17 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m20-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:09:06 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m37-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:09:24 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m37-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:10:27 <sbp> today's logs started with: 00:00:33 <tav`> i'm not a vacuum furnace you fuckers! 01:10:44 <sbp> *** Set by AaronSw on Mon Jan 14 05:24:28 01:10:45 <sbp> <sbp> heh, heh. AaronSw has an unparalleled intuition 01:10:45 <sbp> *** Disconnected 01:11:15 <AaronSw> what was set by me? 01:11:33 <sbp> er... just pasted in a bit more than I should have 01:11:42 <sbp> [[[ 01:11:43 <sbp> *** Disconnected 01:11:43 <sbp> *** Attempting to rejoin... 01:11:43 <sbp> *** Rejoined channel #swhack 01:11:43 <sbp> *** Topic is '<maya> hmz is the meaning of life' 01:11:43 <sbp> *** Set by AaronSw on Mon Jan 14 05:24:28 01:11:45 <sbp> ]]] 01:11:55 <AaronSw> intuition for what? 01:12:03 <sbp> just intuition 01:23:42 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:26:45 <sbp> lol: http://web.mit.edu/beland/www/pics/mitnude.jpg 01:54:27 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m963-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 01:54:46 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m963-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:54:56 <zota> zota (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 01:59:13 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:59:31 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:00:26 <AaronSw> hey zota 02:00:57 <zota> hello aaron. 02:01:17 <AaronSw> another alias for hazmat? 02:07:04 <zota> indeed. 02:09:18 <AaronSw> Fascinating: "None of this matters to Steve Jobs. It took me a long time to figure this out, but he is quite content with the status quo. That's because Steve's definition of success is different from Bill's, and from that of most other people in the computer industry. Success to Steve means getting his own way. That's all. Forget about market share. It's all about longevity and personal dominance." 02:09:21 <AaronSw> - http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020110.html 02:12:55 <AaronSw> eek! Rael has been downgraded to Researcher 02:13:46 <sbp> [02:10] <Morbus> hey, is tav in swhack? 02:13:47 <sbp> [02:10] <sbp> tav`, yes 02:13:47 <sbp> [02:10] <Morbus> ask him if he reads the logs now that the annoying morbo is gone ;) 02:13:51 <AaronSw> lol: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/282.html 02:14:10 <sbp> ooh, tech 02:14:37 <sbp> heh! I didn't think of it as one of them 02:14:41 <sbp> a dippy duck 02:14:43 <sbp> iDippyDuck 02:15:10 <sbp> heh: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/282poll.html 02:15:34 <zota> zota has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:15:34 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:24:26 <sbp> [[[ 02:24:26 <zota> zota (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 02:24:26 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:24:27 <sbp> [02:22] <Morbus> and disobey.com? haven't touched it in forever. 02:24:27 <sbp> [02:23] <sbp> can I have it? 02:24:27 <sbp> [02:23] <Morbus> have what? disobey.com? 02:24:27 <sbp> [02:23] <sbp> yeah 02:24:27 <sbp> [02:23] <Morbus> no, you can't have disobey.com 02:24:28 <sbp> ]]] 02:24:46 <AaronSw> aww 02:25:03 <sbp> I know. I was like, "aw, please?" 02:25:05 <zota> interesting... but that does not mean the end goals don't achieve the same effect if left unrestrained, the real difference is the means they will use to achieve their ends. 02:25:19 <zota> hey tav' did you get my email with the lucenexml demo? 02:28:05 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:28:20 <tav`> nope 02:28:24 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:29:21 <zota> tav`: ughh.. it was sitting in my outbox, its sent now. 02:30:06 <AaronSw> man, the newton really did rock 02:30:23 <AaronSw> i wonder where mine went... oh, maybe i dropped it 02:30:27 <zota> * zota drools over the sharp zaraus 02:30:33 <AaronSw> http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=3be9d81c5fde31ba99ee415e92cd8ff6&threadid=1057 02:30:37 <AaronSw> ^ newton vids 02:30:49 <zota> their giving away 60 to anyone who passes the first round of the trolltech/sharp contest. 02:32:20 <tansaku2> tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:44:09 <AaronSw> @ http://www.hubbe.net/~hubbe/x2vnc.html 02:44:14 <chumpster> A: x2vnc 1.31 from AaronSw 02:46:17 <AaronSw> A::"This program will let you use two screens on two different computers as if they were connected to the same computer. Even if one of the computers runs Windows 95/98/NT and the other one runs X-windows." 02:46:18 <chumpster> commented item A 03:16:53 <AaronSw> OK, tomorrow will be an IRC/Email/RadioUserLand-free day for me. 03:18:39 <AaronSw> I hope you understand these drastic productivity enhancing measures. 03:19:45 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind. 03:23:36 <sbp> lol 03:42:35 <sbp> sbp is now known as SeanP 03:42:52 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp 03:57:42 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:58:00 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:10:30 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as sbp` 04:10:42 <sbp`> sbp` is now known as SeanP 04:11:42 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as Morbus 04:12:04 <Morbus> Morbus is now known as AaronSw 04:15:08 <AaronSw> .rot13 while 1: print 'hi there' 04:15:09 <xena> juvyr 1: cevag 'uv gurer' 04:53:43 <AaronSw> hmm, i thought i pointed tav to zentv a while ago 05:05:00 <AaronSw> Pat Hayes: "Allowing reification into the formalism is like dancing on the edge of a cliff, BTW." 05:10:04 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:10:14 <AaronSw> $ echo "hello, #swhack" 05:10:15 <sbp> there - that's better 05:10:33 <AaronSw> $ ls 05:11:40 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:11:44 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:11:48 <sbp> $ echo "hello, #swhack" 05:11:49 <CygBot> > hello, #swhack 05:11:50 <CygBot> > 05:11:52 <AaronSw> $ ls 05:12:01 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 05:12:02 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 05:12:03 <CygBot> > 0.95-think.n3 05:12:04 <CygBot> > 0.95.html 05:12:05 <CygBot> > 0.95.n3 05:12:06 <CygBot> > 2000 05:12:07 <CygBot> > 2001-12-31.txt 05:12:08 <CygBot> > 20020112-141032.bash_history 05:12:09 <CygBot> > 20020112-184806.sha 05:12:10 <CygBot> > 4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1 05:12:12 <CygBot> > ATCS2.html 05:12:14 <CygBot> > ATCS2.txt 05:12:16 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223625.sh 05:12:18 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223634.sh 05:12:20 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223647.sh 05:12:22 <CygBot> > Copy of SimpleText.py 05:12:24 <CygBot> > Copy of rdfstoxhtml.n3 05:12:26 <CygBot> > Copy of simpsons.py 05:12:28 <CygBot> > [...] 05:12:45 <sbp> :-) 05:13:08 <sbp> $ cat 4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1 05:13:20 <CygBot> > blargh 05:13:30 <AaronSw> huh? 05:13:34 <AaronSw> oh 05:13:35 <AaronSw> heh 05:13:54 <AaronSw> $ ls *semanticweb* 05:14:07 <CygBot> > ls: *semanticweb*: No such file or directory 05:14:07 <CygBot> > 05:14:53 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:15:03 <sbp> oh crap, pushed a wrong button :-) 05:15:22 <sbp> actually, I was trying to copy something from the console window, and of course, ctrl-c exits the program... 05:15:27 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:15:54 <sbp> $ python util/simpsons.py 05:16:05 <CygBot> > The Simpsons are not on today on BBC2 05:16:05 <CygBot> > The Simpsons are on today on Sky One at 19:00 19:30 05:16:05 <CygBot> > 05:16:44 <sbp> I just had to make a program for that :-) 05:16:54 <AaronSw> $ cat util/simpsons.py 05:17:07 <CygBot> Command "cat util/simpsons.py" has been disabled 05:17:51 <sbp> $ wc util/simpsons.py 05:17:52 <CygBot> > 19 92 753 util/simpsons.py 05:17:52 <CygBot> > 05:17:57 <sbp> not a big script 05:18:12 <sbp> CygBot will print out 20 lines, I think 05:18:25 <sbp> up to 20 lines, that is 05:18:41 <CygBot> > /home 05:18:41 <AaronSw> cool 05:18:41 <CygBot> > 05:19:01 <sbp> Hmm... sending it a PRIVMSG makes it come through on here. I'd better fix that :-) 05:19:52 <sbp> $ ls c:/WINDOWS/Desktop/*.html 05:19:53 <CygBot> > c:/WINDOWS/Desktop/index.html 05:19:53 <CygBot> > 05:20:07 <sbp> cool. CygWin can access the rest of the HD too 05:21:20 <AaronSw> hmm: http://www.ircle.com/colorfaq.shtml 05:22:25 <sbp> * sbp wonders if he should run "$ cat c*bot.py | grep Aaron" - what secrets will it divulge? 05:22:35 <AaronSw> hmm 05:22:46 <sbp> $ cat c*bot.py | grep Aaron 05:22:47 <CygBot> > except: f = "URI unobtainable (thanks to AaronSw for pointing out the bug)" 05:22:48 <CygBot> > 05:22:58 <AaronSw> spew:http://www.google.com/ 05:22:59 <CygBot> Spew result:- 05:23:02 <AaronSw> heh! 05:23:06 <sbp> :-) 05:23:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw spanks spankybot 05:23:24 <CygBot> ow! 05:23:25 <sbp> Hmm... except it didn't work 05:23:28 <sbp> lol! 05:23:47 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:24:12 <AaronSw> .spam 05:25:24 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:25:30 <sbp> spew:http://www.google.com/ 05:25:30 <CygBot> Spew result:- 05:25:46 <sbp> bizarre 05:25:54 <AaronSw> it's just being polite 05:26:04 <sbp> it even *says* in the console window that it's sending the text! 05:26:13 <AaronSw> heh 05:26:19 <sbp> * sbp spanks spankybot 05:26:20 <CygBot> spankybot? 05:26:23 <AaronSw> * AaronSw coughs 05:26:46 <AaronSw> * AaronSw spanks CygBot 05:27:47 <sbp> e 05:27:48 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:27:52 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:27:57 <sbp> spew:http://www.google.com/ 05:27:58 <CygBot> Spew result:- 05:28:01 <CygBot> Google[IMAGE: 'Google' images/logo.gif] *Web* Images[1] Groups[2] Directory[3] [IMAGE: ''] • A 05:28:20 <sbp> There. It uses a wonderful little HTML 2 text service that I know about 05:28:26 <sbp> http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl :-) 05:28:35 <AaronSw> Heh! 05:28:57 <sbp> $ python util/browser.py http://aaronsw.com/ 05:29:16 <AaronSw> spew:http://aaronsw.com/ 05:29:43 <sbp> argh, it'll explode at this rate 05:30:04 <AaronSw> w00t! my server shipped 05:30:20 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:30:28 <sbp> bang! 05:30:32 <sbp> it shipped? great! 05:30:55 <sbp> this was the problem:- 05:30:56 <sbp> [[[ 05:30:57 <sbp> Palmer@Y0R1D9 /home 05:30:57 <sbp> $ python util/browser.py http://aaronsw.com/ 05:30:57 <sbp> Getting http://aaronsw.com/... 05:30:57 <sbp> Code was 302 (http://swartzfam.com/aaron/), continue? [Y/N]: Y 05:30:58 <sbp> Getting http://swartzfam.com/aaron/... 05:31:00 <sbp> Got it: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 05:31:02 <sbp> Aaron Swartz | AaronSw | my.life 05:31:04 <sbp> <<doorknob.jpg> My face reflected in a doorknob.> 05:31:06 <sbp> ]]] 05:31:16 <sbp> it doesn't take stdin 05:31:23 <AaronSw> ah 05:31:38 <sbp> I need to fiddle with browser.py then, it seems... 05:31:51 <AaronSw> it sure no curl 05:32:00 <sbp> yeah, sure ain't 05:32:39 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m997-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:33:42 <sbp> $ cat util/browser.py | sed "s/x = raw_input()/x = 'y'/" > util/browser.py 05:33:44 <CygBot> > 05:33:55 <sbp> $ python util/browser.py http://aaronsw.com/ 05:33:56 <CygBot> > 05:34:19 <sbp> Mmmkay 05:34:21 <sbp> $ pwd 05:34:22 <CygBot> > /home 05:34:22 <CygBot> > 05:34:39 <tav`> tav` has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:34:52 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 05:35:10 <sbp> Heh, my sed script didn't quite do what I'd intended it to do... 05:35:32 <sbp> $ wc util/browser.py 05:35:33 <CygBot> > 0 0 0 util/browser.py 05:35:33 <CygBot> > 05:35:52 <AaronSw> heh 05:36:01 <tav`> tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 05:36:02 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 05:36:25 <sbp> $ wc util/browser.py 05:36:27 <CygBot> > 174 730 5974 util/browser.py 05:36:27 <CygBot> > 05:36:39 <sbp> $ sed "s/x = raw_input()/x = 'y'/" util/browser.py > util/browser.py 05:36:40 <CygBot> > 05:36:44 <sbp> $ wc util/browser.py 05:36:45 <CygBot> > 0 0 0 util/browser.py 05:36:46 <CygBot> > 05:36:48 <sbp> argh 05:37:02 <tav`> tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 05:37:07 <sbp> Aaron, 'elp! 05:37:27 <AaronSw> hmm 05:37:57 <AaronSw> oh 05:38:00 <AaronSw> it's sed -e "..." 05:38:04 <sbp> ah, thanks 05:38:17 <sbp> $ sed -e "s/x = raw_input()/x = 'y'/" util/browser.py > util/browser.py 05:38:18 <CygBot> > 05:38:23 <sbp> $ wc util/browser.py 05:38:24 <CygBot> > 0 0 0 util/browser.py 05:38:24 <CygBot> > 05:38:27 <sbp> nope 05:38:56 <AaronSw> did you put back the original first? 05:38:58 <sbp> yep 05:40:21 <AaronSw> hmm, dunno then... maybe it's the 's? 05:40:27 <sbp> ah, the intricacies of sed 05:40:53 <sbp> what should I change it to? And feel free to run command lines yourself :-) 05:41:12 <AaronSw> i dunno, really 05:41:30 <AaronSw> i don't use sed that much 05:41:37 <sbp> * sbp neither 05:42:08 <sbp> oh, I'll change it by hand. Sorta beats the purpose of having an IRC CygWin shell, doesn't it? 05:42:21 <AaronSw> heh 05:43:14 <sbp> $ cat util/browser.py | grep raw_input() 05:43:15 <CygBot> > Syntax error: "(" unexpected 05:43:15 <CygBot> > 05:43:22 <sbp> $ cat util/browser.py | grep "raw_input()" 05:43:24 <CygBot> > x = 'y' # raw_input() 05:43:24 <CygBot> > geturi(raw_input()) 05:43:24 <CygBot> > 05:43:35 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 05:43:38 <sbp> $ python util/browser.py http://aaronsw.com/ 05:43:45 <CygBot> > Code was 302 (http://swartzfam.com/aaron/), continue? [Y/N]: Getting http://swartzfam.com/aaron/... 05:43:46 <CygBot> > Got it: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 05:43:47 <CygBot> > Aaron Swartz | AaronSw | my.life 05:43:48 <CygBot> > <<doorknob.jpg> My face reflected in a doorknob.> 05:43:49 <CygBot> > @ my.life: the wacky story of aaron swartz 05:43:50 <CygBot> > 05:43:51 <CygBot> > Nearby: <<http://swartzfam.com/> swartzfam.com> | 05:43:52 <CygBot> > <<http://crit.org/http://swartzfam.com/aaron/> crit this page> | 05:43:53 <CygBot> > <<http://www.google.com/search?q=link%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fswartzfam.com%2Faaron%2F> 05:43:54 <CygBot> > google backlinks> 05:43:55 <CygBot> > 05:43:58 <CygBot> > If this page seems devoid of color and excitement, you need a browser that 05:43:59 <CygBot> > supports <<http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/> CSS>. Please 05:44:01 <CygBot> > <<http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/> upgrade your browser>. 05:44:03 <CygBot> > 05:44:05 <CygBot> > 05:44:07 <CygBot> > 05:44:09 <CygBot> > @ Prose 05:44:11 <CygBot> > [...] 05:44:18 <sbp> Pff, upgrade my browser, upgrade my browser??? 05:44:25 <AaronSw> yeah 05:44:52 <sbp> from browser.py? How would one *up*grade browser.py? It's the pinnacle of browser design! 05:45:06 <AaronSw> heh 05:45:14 <sbp> I mean, marvel at the funkiness of those links. Marvel! 05:45:49 <sbp> ooh, you're sending it as iso-xxx? Does it have a PI? 05:46:03 <sbp> $ python util/browser.py http://aaronsw.com/ -text | grep "<?xml" 05:46:10 <CygBot> > Getting http://aaronsw.com/... 05:46:10 <CygBot> > Code was 302 (http://swartzfam.com/aaron/), continue? [Y/N]: Getting http://swartzfam.com/aaron/... 05:46:10 <CygBot> > Got it: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 05:46:10 <CygBot> > 05:46:27 <sbp> [puzzlement] 05:46:54 <AaronSw> hmm 05:47:16 <sbp> $ lynx http://aaronsw.com/ -dump -source | grep "<?xml" 05:47:22 <CygBot> > 05:47:35 <sbp> ah, perhaps it always prints STDERR 05:47:39 <AaronSw> makes sense 05:48:05 <sbp> You should have an XML PI if being sent as anything other than UTF-8 05:48:10 <sbp> assuming that it's XHTML 05:48:23 <AaronSw> yeah, can't really ssh into server right now, tho 05:48:43 <sbp> $ lynx http://aaronsw.com/ -dump -source | grep "DOCTYPE" 05:48:49 <CygBot> > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" 05:48:49 <CygBot> > 05:49:03 <sbp> now *that's* service :-) 05:49:12 <sbp> Mmmkay, now, as for bot rules... 05:49:45 <sbp> I guess I shouldn't really bring it in here? I mean, it's annoying for you folks (unless you want to use it), and it's bound to be insecure somewhere 05:50:10 <AaronSw> it's your channel as much as anyone else's 05:50:34 <sbp> no, no, if I'm being a nuisance, then I want to stop it 05:50:57 <sbp> but it is nice not having to change windows :-) 05:58:17 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m42-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 05:58:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m42-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:00:57 <CygBot`> CygBot` (~sbp@m42-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:01:06 <sbp> .google "ducks at balloons" 06:01:07 <xena> "ducks at balloons": http://www.fireball.com 06:01:35 <AaronSw> Ah, Philip is so funny. 06:01:53 <sbp> His name is Paul 06:02:04 <sbp> .google "ducks at balloons" site:snpp.com 06:02:05 <xena> "ducks at balloons" site:snpp.com: http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F08 06:02:13 <AaronSw> no. i meant philip 06:02:18 <sbp> $ lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F08 -dump | grep "ducks"; lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F08 -dump | grep "balloons" 06:02:23 <sbp> who's Philip? 06:02:29 <CygBot`> > Homer: Yeah. We should start our own game, where people throw ducks 06:02:30 <CygBot`> > at balloons and nothing's the way it seems. 06:02:30 <CygBot`> > 06:02:48 <sbp> there! it has utility... to get me Simpsons quotes 06:03:11 <AaronSw> Philip Greenspun. 06:03:11 <sbp> * sbp wonders how to do "or" in a grep RegExp 06:03:19 <sbp> ah, right. That Philip 06:03:54 <AaronSw> grep (foo|bar) 06:05:09 <sbp> $ lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F08 -dump | grep "ducks\|baloons" 06:05:16 <CygBot`> > Homer: Yeah. We should start our own game, where people throw ducks 06:05:16 <CygBot`> > 06:05:43 <sbp> Pff, advice from http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/grep.html failed 06:05:51 <deltab> sbp: -A 2 to print the match and two lines after 06:06:13 <sbp> ah! excellent idea 06:06:16 <deltab> sbp: you misspelt 'balloons'! :-P 06:06:26 <sbp> Argh! 06:07:10 <sbp> $ lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F08 -dump | grep "ducks\|balloons"; echo ''; lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F08 -dump | grep "ducks" -A 2 06:07:22 <CygBot`> > Homer: Yeah. We should start our own game, where people throw ducks 06:07:23 <CygBot`> > at balloons and nothing's the way it seems. 06:07:24 <CygBot`> > 06:07:25 <CygBot`> > Homer: Yeah. We should start our own game, where people throw ducks 06:07:26 <CygBot`> > at balloons and nothing's the way it seems. 06:07:27 <CygBot`> > -- An upcoming episode? "Bart Carny" 06:07:28 <CygBot`> > 06:07:41 <sbp> heh, that would have made a good spin-off episode 06:09:00 <sbp> Wow, why does this server take so long to time people out? 06:09:46 <AaronSw> Because it loves you. 06:10:08 <CygBot`> > Yeah, it sure does 06:10:08 <CygBot`> > 06:10:25 <AaronSw> -- 06:10:27 <AaronSw> (While I was doing this, a neighbor walked up, and I just want to 06:10:28 <AaronSw> say that if you think it's easy to explain why you're squatting in 06:10:28 <AaronSw> your driveway, in front of a set of burning underwear, surrounded by 06:10:28 <AaronSw> hair spray bottles, holding a Barbie doll in your hand, then you are 06:10:28 <AaronSw> mistaken.) 06:10:31 <AaronSw> - http://philip.greenspun.com/humor/rollerblade-barbie.text 06:10:32 <AaronSw> -- 06:10:35 <sbp> Should I strip that trailing line? 06:10:40 <AaronSw> no 06:10:48 <AaronSw> perhaps make it [end] or something 06:11:02 <sbp> good idea 06:17:01 <sbp> heh:- 06:17:03 <sbp> $ lynx http://philip.greenspun.com/humor/rollerblade-barbie.text -dump -source | grep "My son" -A 1 06:17:06 <CygBot`> > The problem was that I did not have a Rollerblade Barbie. My son 06:17:06 <CygBot`> > happens to be a boy, and we never went through the Barbie phase. We 06:17:06 <CygBot`> > 06:17:26 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:17:50 <deltab> $ which GET 06:18:20 <CygBot`> > GET: Command not found. 06:18:21 <CygBot`> > 06:20:47 <sbp> That PG article is hillarious 06:21:03 <sbp> which GET? 06:21:07 <AaronSw> yeah, the hominid barby one is pretty funny too 06:21:12 <AaronSw> http://philip.greenspun.com/humor/hominid-barbie.text 06:22:18 <AaronSw> alright, i better go to sleep 06:22:45 <CygBot`> > Fine, be that way 06:22:45 <CygBot`> > 06:23:11 <sbp> e 06:23:11 <CygBot`> CygBot` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:23:36 <sbp> c'ya Aaron 06:23:57 <AaronSw> When it gets dark I tow your heart away 06:24:40 <AaronSw> we'll see how long i last tomorrow without irc 06:24:49 <AaronSw> * AaronSw places irc icon in trash to hide it from himself 06:24:51 <AaronSw> nite 06:25:07 <sbp> Standing by a parking meter, when I caught a glimpse of Rita, filling in a ticket in her little white book. In her cap, she looked much older 06:25:24 <sbp> and the bad across her shoulder, made her look a little like a millitary man 06:25:29 <sbp> [wah, wah, wah, wah] 06:25:37 <sbp> Lovely rita meter maid, etc. 06:25:39 <sbp> 'night 06:25:53 <sbp> s/bad/bag/ 06:26:06 <sbp> Gotta run 06:49:41 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:33:21 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h133-203.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 07:33:52 <tansaku2> tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 08:36:04 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:55:06 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n145-149.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:29:26 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:05:07 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n145-149.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:08:28 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:08:28 <zota> zota has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:08:28 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:08:28 <tav`> tav` has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:10:28 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n145-149.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:10:28 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 12:10:28 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 12:10:28 <zota> zota (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 12:52:16 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:07:17 <tav`> tav` has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 14:31:31 <kenm> kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 14:31:43 <kenm> * kenm waves 14:35:06 <kenm> kenm has quit ("Leaving") 16:00:45 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m73-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:09:20 <deus_x> deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 16:13:14 <sbp> heh! on www-html:- 16:13:14 <sbp> [[[ 16:13:14 <sbp> I would like to Subscribe. 16:13:14 <sbp> ]]] 16:21:24 <kmacleod> kmacleod (~ken@cx28908-a.elkhn1.ne.home.com) has joined #swhack 16:21:40 <kmacleod> kmacleod has quit (Client Quit) 16:22:13 <sbp> * sbp watches the sun melt into the horizon 16:22:55 <kmacleod> kmacleod (~kmacleod@chomsky.casbah.org) has joined #swhack 16:22:58 <kmacleod> * kmacleod waves 16:23:07 <sbp> Hi there Ken 16:23:18 <sbp> no one about today - just me - I'm afraid 16:23:28 <sbp> so you'll have to put up with my rants 16:23:38 <kmacleod> hehe, what are you ranting on today? 16:23:55 <sbp> gone! 16:24:03 <sbp> Just watching the sunset 16:25:32 <kmacleod> are you using Radio? 16:25:51 <sbp> Nope. I want a mug 16:25:59 <kmacleod> heh 16:26:19 <sbp> HTP seems to be down... 16:26:26 <sbp> ah, it's up again 16:26:45 <kmacleod> I was curious if it, or Frontier, still needs to run all the time in the foreground, or if one can log off and let it run as a daemon. 16:27:34 <sbp> I would presume that you don't have to have it running all of the time... 16:30:23 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m73-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:30:29 <sbp> * sbp waves to CygBot 16:30:58 <sbp> $ u timenow 16:30:59 <CygBot> > 20020115-163157 16:31:00 <CygBot> > 16:31:51 <sbp> ah, gotta replace the trailing whitespace with "[end]" 16:32:24 <kmacleod> gotta run, ttyl 16:32:25 <kmacleod> kmacleod has quit ("Leaving") 16:33:28 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:33:40 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m73-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:33:42 <sbp> $ u pwd 16:33:43 <CygBot> > /home/util/pwd.*: not found 16:33:43 <CygBot> > [end] 16:33:47 <sbp> argh 16:33:49 <sbp> $ pwd 16:33:50 <CygBot> > /home 16:33:50 <CygBot> > [end] 16:34:08 <sbp> $ cat u 16:34:09 <CygBot> > cat: u: No such file or directory 16:34:10 <CygBot> > [end] 16:34:17 <sbp> $ cat /usr/bin/u 16:34:19 <CygBot> > #!/usr/bin/sh 16:34:19 <CygBot> > /home/util/${1}.* $2 $3 $4 $5 $6 $7 $8 $9 $10 $11 $12 $13 $14 $15 $16 $17 16:34:42 <sbp> that's my terrible little hack... anyone know of a better way? 16:36:49 <sbp> * sbp tries 16:36:50 <sbp> http://www.gnu.org/manual/bash/html_mono/bashref.html 16:45:33 <deus_x> You know, I feel dumb, but only yesterday did I realize this channel has a weblogging bot. 16:45:56 <sbp> wow. We should really put it in the channel notice 16:46:21 <deus_x> I just wandered into this channel because Morbus invited me re: AmphetaDesk talk :) 16:47:23 <sbp> heh, and you've been in here for all this time? Do we excite you? 16:48:00 <deus_x> Well, there are interesting things here sometimes, so I stuck around :) 16:48:27 <deus_x> People probably wonder who the heck this guy is, just sitting around in the channe; 16:48:50 <sbp> yep :-) 16:49:05 <sbp> feel free to join in more often! 16:51:31 <sbp> argh, this script is so annyoing. Somehow, I need to chop $1 off of $* 16:51:51 <deltab> shift 16:54:08 <sbp> .google bash shift 16:54:10 <xena> bash shift: http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/342/2000/6/0/3883558 16:54:38 <sbp> ah, thanks deltab 16:59:01 <sbp> $ cat /usr/bin/u 16:59:02 <CygBot> > #!/usr/bin/sh 16:59:03 <CygBot> > ONE=$1; shift 1; /home/util/${ONE}.* $* 17:00:08 <sbp> * sbp plays "My Sweet Lord" 17:00:15 <deltab> you could use just /home/util/$* 17:00:43 <deltab> couldn't you? 17:00:48 <sbp> Hmm... 17:01:12 <sbp> $ util/timenow 17:01:14 <CygBot> > util/timenow: not found 17:01:14 <CygBot> > [end] 17:01:19 <sbp> nope 17:03:42 <deltab> huh? 17:04:35 <sbp> well, I could do, but then I'd have to run stuff like u timenow.py; I want to be able to hack the file extension off, and assume that there will only ever be one script of that name in the util dir at any one time 17:04:51 <sbp> I'm lazy - three characters... too much :-) 17:07:23 <sbp> then again, I get .pyc files in the dir... 17:07:33 <sbp> $ ls util 17:07:35 <CygBot> > archive.py 17:07:35 <CygBot> > browser.py 17:07:37 <CygBot> > browser20020115-054322.py 17:07:38 <CygBot> > httpuris.py 17:07:39 <CygBot> > simpsons.py 17:07:40 <CygBot> > timenow.py 17:07:41 <CygBot> > timenow.pyc 17:07:42 <CygBot> > [end] 17:08:03 <deltab> why not just add it to your path? 17:08:20 <deltab> then you could tab-complete 17:08:23 <sbp> Hmm... that's a good idea 17:08:38 <deltab> sim<tab><enter> 17:16:39 <sbp> .google site:lists.w3.org www-rdf-logic Sandro database "what is RDF" 17:16:40 <xena> no results found. 17:16:50 <sbp> .google site:lists.w3.org Sandro database "what is RDF?" 17:16:51 <xena> no results found. 17:16:55 <sbp> Hmph 17:17:27 <sbp> Perhaps it was rcent 17:17:34 <sbp> s/rcent/recent/ 17:18:31 <sbp> aha: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0005 17:20:23 <deus_x> Gah, I wish OS X would stop eating my mouse accel and then segfaulting on everything started on login 17:30:43 <sbp> Pat Hayes: """The SW can't depend on people making telephone calls to find out how to interpret the RDF on web pages.""" 17:42:12 <sbp> * sbp plays "Old Brown Shoe" 17:59:57 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:59:58 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:02:08 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m120-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:13:55 <sbp> argh, when doing comparisons of objects using ==, it tests by object, not by string 18:14:02 <sbp> what's the point of having "is", eh? 18:14:25 <deltab> depends on the object 18:15:11 <sbp> I have a class whose __repr__ returns a string, and I want it to test those strings rather than the objects 18:15:32 <sbp> in fact, __repr__ just returns self.r, which is a string, so I could test a.r == a.b 18:15:38 <sbp> er... a.r == b.r 18:20:01 <sbp> I could intern the objects, I suppose, but I didn't really wanttahaveta 18:58:11 <sbp> sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 20:43:42 <BenSw|AC> BenSw|AC (~dircal@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 20:46:07 <BenSw> BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 20:48:44 <BenSw> * BenSw tries to get irc working on AC 20:52:40 <BenSw|AC> BenSw|AC has quit (Remote closed the connection) 20:53:59 <tav`> tav` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:02:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m327-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:18:03 <BenSw> BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.") 21:27:15 <BenSw> BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 21:28:27 <BenSw|AC> BenSw|AC (~dircal@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 21:53:01 <BenSw|AC> BenSw|AC has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:56:19 <BenSw> BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 22:09:02 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:21:21 <tav> tav (~tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 22:28:53 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m89-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:44:55 <zota> is there a transactional mail product for zope? 22:45:15 <zota> wrong channel sorry. 23:39:42 <sbp> np 23:55:31 <tav> tav is now known as tav`` 23:55:35 <tav`> tav` is now known as tav 23:55:37 <tav``> tav`` is now known as tav` ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������2002-01-16.txt��������������������������������������������������������������������������������������0100644�0000143�0000000�00000330012�07421411636�011665� 0����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ustar �nobody��������������������������root�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������00:03:04 <BenSw> BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:09 <sbp> Hi Ben 00:03:50 <deltab> BenSw! I thought you'd expired 00:04:51 <BenSw> hi 00:20:32 <BenSw> why would I expire? 00:28:02 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m88-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 00:28:21 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m88-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:31:57 <tav> * tav notes BenSw is new to deltab's sense of humour 00:31:57 <tav> -- 00:31:58 <tav> * BenSw has quit IRC ("Snak 4.8 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks forusing Snak.") 00:31:58 <tav> -- 00:35:01 <BenSw> BenSw has quit ("Snak 4.8 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.") 00:44:02 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m937-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:44:20 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m937-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:21:30 <zota> zota has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.7/20011221]") 01:26:10 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:37:38 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m68-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:39:45 <finejung> finejung (~finejung@modem-147.python.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 01:39:48 <finejung> finejung has left #swhack 01:39:55 <finejung> finejung (~finejung@modem-147.python.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 01:43:59 <sbp> Hi there finejung 01:45:02 <finejung> hello 01:45:14 <finejung> how's life? 01:45:22 <tav`> hi 01:45:27 <tav`> good thanks 01:45:45 <finejung> :) 01:46:48 <sbp> So, what can we do you for? 01:47:09 <sbp> BTW, this channel is instantly logged to the Web in several formats, all available at http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 01:47:29 <sbp> to do an off-log comment, prefix your entry with "# " 01:47:32 <finejung> wonderful 01:47:44 <finejung> ok 01:48:08 <sbp> xena is an all-purpose bot with several functions, such as google and time 01:48:12 <sbp> .google finejung 01:48:32 <xena> finejung: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2000OctDec/0192.html 01:48:39 <finejung> I see 01:48:57 <finejung> what exactly is the channel about? 01:49:26 <sbp> Basically anything 01:49:50 <sbp> We also maintain the #swhack Weblog, but on the channel we just chat about whatever. Skip through the archives for more details 01:50:23 <sbp> Stuff like P2P, cryotography, decentralization, the Semantic Web, XHTML, the weather, The Simpsons, humour, Python... 01:50:53 <finejung> the sw is semantic web then? 01:50:56 <sbp> yep 01:51:12 <finejung> I'm glad my assumptions are not always awry 01:51:14 <tav`> sbp: you forget to mention sex and analmilking 01:51:31 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m68-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:51:32 <tav`> sbp here has this worrying obsession... 01:51:48 <sbp> ah, yeah. And cracking - we're l33t d00dz, according to Aaron 01:51:49 <finejung> that's OK, it was also inferred 01:52:13 <sbp> Heh, heh 01:52:15 <finejung> well of course 01:52:41 <finejung> what channel is not full of 1337 d00dz? 01:52:55 <sbp> that's a very good point 01:53:10 <tav`> i'm not a w3 guy, so i have to ask, who are you finejung? 01:53:52 <finejung> nobody 01:54:03 <sbp> that's strange: tav's nobody too 01:54:18 <finejung> bizarre, we share an identity 01:54:23 <tav`> woah! 01:54:23 <sbp> I, on the other hand, am Sean B. Palmer Esq. None of that anonymous bullshit malarkey for me 01:54:28 <tav`> maybe we are the same person! 01:55:00 <sbp> Mwahahaha! 01:55:08 <finejung> That's nice :) 01:56:47 <finejung> I'm Tom Henry Croft, I doubt many people care though. 01:57:08 <finejung> or am I Thomas? such things confuse me 01:57:34 <sbp> What shall we call you? How about Fred. I don't know many Freds 01:57:43 <finejung> I used to know a fred 01:58:21 <finejung> I have never known a male Kim 01:58:44 <sbp> Hmm... neither have I 01:58:56 <finejung> nor a male Rowan 01:59:16 <finejung> it all lerads to genderisation of unisex names unless you balance the scales 01:59:24 <finejung> lerads? leads. 01:59:25 <sbp> ah, so you're female? 01:59:30 <finejung> no male 01:59:34 <finejung> I think 01:59:43 <sbp> there's a simple way to check 02:00:10 <finejung> when no-one's around to see it, does the tree exist? 02:00:17 <sbp> if you like beer, scratching yourself, watching T.V., farting/burping, and go "hubba hubba" at the sight of any female, then you're male 02:00:41 <sbp> tree: yeah, sure. God's always around to see it 02:01:21 <finejung> Accdording to the irish bishop 02:01:32 <finejung> Berkeley? something like that. 02:01:39 <sbp> dunno 02:01:41 <finejung> I have his book somewhere 02:01:49 <sbp> .google irish bishop Berkeley 02:01:55 <finejung> yes Berkeley 02:02:11 <finejung> "The principles of Human Knowledge" 02:02:16 <xena> irish bishop Berkeley: http://www.knuten.liu.se/~bjoch509/philosophers/ber.html 02:02:26 <sbp> Mmmkay 02:02:41 <finejung> the google thing's very cute :) 02:02:46 <sbp> sure is 02:02:57 <sbp> .commands 02:03:11 <xena> valid commands: 02:03:21 <xena> - +mask, -mask, access, acronym, act, babel, beats, billennium, c2f, change 02:03:21 <xena> - commands, ctcp, date, dict, die, dns, dtrt, e, email, excuse 02:03:21 <xena> - f2c, flight, foldoc, fortune, google, help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon 02:03:21 <xena> - join, login, masks, modules, msg, news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer 02:03:21 <xena> - part, pig latin, plexname, poker, quit, quote, raw, register, rfc, rot13 02:03:22 <xena> - search, seen, server, servers, spell, status, symbol for, time, translate, unixtime 02:03:24 <xena> - users, weather, webster, when did, whois, wn, zipcode, zope commands 02:03:45 <finejung> ooh 02:03:55 <sbp> take your pick 02:03:56 <sbp> .time 02:04:01 <sbp> .wn damn 02:04:06 <finejung> .fortune 02:04:13 <sbp> .spell greot 02:04:17 <finejung> I'll never get tired of that :) 02:04:18 <xena> 2002/01/16 02:05:46.1144 Universal 02:04:30 <xena> Create. 02:04:35 <sbp> Wow, is she being slow today, or is it just me? 02:04:41 <xena> potential spellings for greot are: grate, grat, Great, griot, garret, grit, Groote, greet, great, grata 02:04:42 <xena> damn defined as: 02:04:43 <xena> - adj 1: used as expletives; "oh, damn (or goddamn)!" [syn: {goddamn}] 02:04:44 <xena> - 2: expletives used informally as intensifiers; "he's a blasted idiot"; "it's a blamed shame"; "a blame cold winter"; "not a blessed dime"; "I'll be damned (or blessed or darned or goddamned) if I'll do any such thing"; "he's a damn (or goddam or goddamned) fool"; "a deuced idiot"; "tired or his everlasting whimpering"; "an infernal nuisance" [syn: {blasted}, {blame}, {blamed}, {blessed}, 02:04:45 <xena> {damned}, {darned}, {deuced}, {everlasting}, {goddam}, {goddamn}, {goddamned}, {infernal}] n : something of little value; "it is not worth a damn"; "not worth shucks" [syn: {darn}, {hoot}, {shit}, {shucks}, {tinker's damn}, {tinker's dam}] adv : (intensifier) "you are bloody right"; "Why are you so all-fired aggressive?" [syn: {bloody}, {all-fired}] v : wish harm upon; put a curse on; "The bad witch 02:04:47 <xena> .. a very large amount of text. 02:05:00 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-094.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 02:05:10 <finejung> incredible 02:05:34 <tav`> .fortune 02:05:35 <xena> Once when I was in Hawaii, on the island of Kauai, I met a mysterious old stranger. He said he was about to die and wanted to tell someone about the treasure. I said "Okay, as long as it's not a long story. Some of us have a plane to catch, you know." He started telling his story, about the treasure and his life and all, and I thought "This story isn't too long". But then, he kept going, and I 02:05:36 <xena> started thinking, "Uh-oh, this story is getting long." But then the story was over, and I said to myself: "You know, that story wasn't too long after all". I forgot what the story was about, but there was a good movie on the plane. It was a little long though. 02:06:46 <finejung> .foldoc semantic web 02:06:47 <xena> error: unable to define semantic web 02:06:54 <finejung> .foldoc semantic 02:07:08 <finejung> this could get rather floody 02:09:15 <tav> .google hmz 02:09:17 <xena> hmz: http://www.rzs-hm.si 02:09:21 <tav> we have to fix that 02:09:34 <tav> sbp: we need to setup a hmz.asktav.com 02:11:27 <sbp> heh! 02:12:05 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:12:15 <tav`> what's cygbot? 02:12:18 <tav`> funny 02:12:26 <tav`> i seem to use whatever 'tav`' is 02:12:33 <sbp> haven't you seen my demonstration of CygBot yet? 02:12:38 <tav`> nope 02:12:44 <sbp> wow 02:12:59 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m68-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:13:03 <sbp> $ pwd 02:13:04 <CygBot> > /home 02:13:04 <CygBot> > [end] 02:13:13 <tav`> $ ls 02:13:13 <sbp> $ ls util 02:13:17 <CygBot> Command "ls" has been disabled 02:13:18 <CygBot> > archive.py 02:13:19 <CygBot> > browser.py 02:13:19 <finejung> * finejung gets a fluffy corn-based food 02:13:20 <CygBot> > browser20020115-054322.py 02:13:21 <CygBot> > httpuris.py 02:13:22 <CygBot> > simpsons.py 02:13:23 <CygBot> > timenow.py 02:13:24 <CygBot> > timenow.pyc 02:13:25 <CygBot> > [end] 02:13:27 <tav`> $ cd util 02:13:32 <tav`> $ pwd 02:13:32 <CygBot> > [end] 02:13:37 <CygBot> > /home 02:13:37 <CygBot> > [end] 02:13:56 <sbp> it uses popen, so it's like a new shell each time 02:14:00 <sbp> cd doesn't work 02:14:06 <tav`> ah 02:14:09 <sbp> $ u simpsons 02:14:22 <tav`> $ find porn 02:14:27 <CygBot> > The Simpsons are not on today on BBC2 02:14:27 <CygBot> > The Simpsons are on today on Sky One at 19:00 19:30 20:00 20:30 02:14:27 <CygBot> > [end] 02:14:29 <CygBot> Command "find porn" has been disabled 02:14:37 <sbp> $ cat /bin/u 02:14:39 <CygBot> > #!/usr/bin/sh 02:14:39 <CygBot> > ONE=$1; shift 1; /home/util/${ONE}.* $* 02:15:11 <tav`> what does shift do? 02:15:27 <sbp> shifts the commands: chops however many off of the front 02:15:46 <finejung> truncates backwards? 02:15:46 <tav`> come again? 02:15:47 <sbp> [Thanks to the tip from d*ltab] 02:16:09 <sbp> $* = a b c; shift 1; $* = b c 02:16:13 <sbp> $* = a b c; shift 2; $* = c 02:16:15 <sbp> etc. 02:16:16 <tav`> ah 02:16:29 <sbp> I guess, anyway 02:16:32 <finejung> $ whoami 02:16:44 <CygBot> > Palmer 02:16:44 <CygBot> > [end] 02:16:54 <finejung> oh what fun 02:17:03 <sbp> yep :-) 02:17:12 <sbp> .belikesbp 02:17:12 <CygBot> I wonder when Morbus will be back? 02:17:15 <sbp> .belikesbp 02:17:16 <CygBot> Uh huh? 02:17:17 <sbp> .belikesbp 02:17:18 <CygBot> wow, the email on www-html these days is often terrible 02:17:26 <sbp> heh. I just added that command 02:17:32 <finejung> :) 02:17:36 <sbp> heh. I just added that command 02:17:37 <sbp> ugh 02:17:38 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:17:39 <CygBot> Ah, I love to rant 02:17:41 <sbp> .belikesbp 02:17:41 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:17:42 <CygBot> Man, I'm hungry 02:17:42 <CygBot> I wonder when Morbus will be back? 02:17:46 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:17:47 <finejung> .belikesbp 02:17:47 <CygBot> Argh, Java is so annoying 02:17:47 <CygBot> Argh, Java is so annoying 02:17:49 <tav`> heh 02:17:51 <tav`> heh 02:17:53 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:17:54 <CygBot> Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie: one to lie, and one to listen 02:17:58 <sbp> ugh, repetition already. import random isn't all that good :-) 02:17:59 <tav`> lol 02:18:04 <sbp> .belikesbp 02:18:05 <CygBot> Blargh 02:18:08 <finejung> .belikesbp 02:18:08 <CygBot> Hey, Aaron, are you there? 02:18:15 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:15 <sbp> heh, heh. That's a good one 02:18:16 <CygBot> Uh huh? 02:18:19 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:19 <CygBot> Hey, Aaron, are you there? 02:18:21 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:22 <CygBot> Man, I'm hungry 02:18:25 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:26 <CygBot> w3c-wai-er-ig has been a bit quiet recently 02:18:29 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:30 <CygBot> I wonder when Morbus will be back? 02:18:31 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:32 <CygBot> Argh, Java is so annoying 02:18:33 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:33 <CygBot> So, how's the Plex coming along? 02:18:34 <finejung> .belikesbp 02:18:35 <CygBot> Ugh, damn ' key! 02:18:37 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:37 <CygBot> wow, the email on www-html these days is often terrible 02:18:39 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:40 <CygBot> Ah, damnit 02:18:41 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:42 <CygBot> Hmm... I wonder what other uses of the Semantic Web there are? 02:18:44 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:45 <CygBot> I wonder when Morbus will be back? 02:18:46 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:46 <finejung> you repeat yourself alot 02:18:47 <CygBot> Homer: Woohoo! 02:18:48 <finejung> .belikesbp 02:18:49 <CygBot> Man, I'm hungry 02:18:50 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:50 <CygBot> Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie: one to lie, and one to listen 02:18:51 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:52 <CygBot> Man, I'm hungry 02:18:53 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:54 <CygBot> Mwahahahaha! 02:18:55 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:56 <CygBot> Ugh, damn ' key! 02:18:57 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:18:58 <CygBot> Ugh, damn ' key! 02:18:58 <sbp> I repeat myself a lot? 02:18:59 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:19:00 <CygBot> So, how's the Plex coming along? 02:19:00 <sbp> I repeat myself a lot? 02:19:01 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:19:02 <CygBot> I wonder when Morbus will be back? 02:19:03 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:19:04 <CygBot> Ah, I love to rant 02:19:05 <tav`> .belikesbp 02:19:06 <CygBot> Heh, heh, heh 02:19:07 <tav`> heh 02:19:12 <tav`> i guess we've seen all 02:19:15 <tav`> or pretty much 02:19:19 <tav`> the homer quote rocks 02:19:28 <finejung> indeed 02:19:29 <sbp> I'll paste them all in... 02:19:32 <sbp> sbpSayings = ['Heh, heh, heh', 02:19:32 <sbp> 'Homer: Woohoo!', 02:19:32 <sbp> 'Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie: one to lie, and one to listen', 02:19:32 <sbp> 'Argh, Java is so annoying', 02:19:32 <sbp> 'Mwahahahaha!', 02:19:40 <sbp> 'Uh huh?', 02:19:40 <sbp> 'Hmm... I wonder what other uses of the Semantic Web there are?', 02:19:40 <sbp> 'Hey, Aaron, are you there?', 02:19:40 <sbp> 'Blargh', 02:19:40 <sbp> 'Ooh, that\'s quite phenomic', 02:19:48 <sbp> 'Man, I\'m hungry', 02:19:48 <sbp> 'Ugh, damn \' key!', 02:19:48 <sbp> 'Mmmkay', 02:19:48 <sbp> 'I wonder when Morbus will be back?', 02:19:50 <sbp> 'Wow, Python is so cool (the show and the language)', 02:19:53 <sbp> 'So, how\'s the Plex coming along?', 02:19:54 <sbp> 'w3c-wai-er-ig has been a bit quiet recently', 02:19:56 <sbp> 'wow, the email on www-html these days is often terrible', 02:20:00 <sbp> 'Marvel at the funkiness!', 02:20:02 <sbp> 'Ah, I love to rant', 02:20:05 <sbp> 'Ah, damnit', 02:20:07 <sbp> 'Ooh, kick-ass'] 02:20:19 <tav`> is heh heh heh yours? 02:20:34 <sbp> what do you mean "mine"? 02:20:42 <sbp> sbpSayings[random.randrange(0, len(sbpSayings)-1)] 02:20:43 <finejung> yeah, he invented that string 02:20:52 <sbp> I say it often enough 02:21:00 <sbp> so it goes well in "belikesbp" 02:21:19 <finejung> do you quote homer simpson often? 02:21:25 <sbp> very often 02:21:33 <tav`> sbp is simpson mad! 02:21:41 <sbp> Homer: Damn straight 02:21:48 <finejung> $ u big train 02:21:57 <CygBot> > /home/util/big.*: not found 02:21:58 <CygBot> > [end] 02:22:05 <sbp> blargh @ big train 02:22:20 <finejung> pfft! 02:22:38 <finejung> I'll admit it's not perfect 02:22:54 <sbp> well, you know what I say to that? 02:22:55 <sbp> .belikesbp 02:22:56 <CygBot> Ugh, damn ' key! 02:23:07 <sbp> there. That's what I say. Damn ' key 02:23:15 <finejung> that's good, I thoght you'd say 02:23:19 <finejung> .belikesbp 02:23:19 <CygBot> Mmmkay 02:23:26 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh 02:23:38 <finejung> Ah, I love to rant 02:23:42 <sbp> lol 02:23:46 <finejung> or maybe that's you.. 02:23:54 <finejung> I have an identity crisis 02:23:58 <sbp> so, you've been tav, me... 02:24:05 <sbp> yeah, I noticed 02:24:32 <xena> i'm finejung 02:24:39 <finejung> *blink* 02:24:46 <sbp> lol! 02:24:50 <finejung> oh xena was that woman on C5 02:25:09 <finejung> the warrior princess, thought I'd seen the name 02:25:21 <tav> heh 02:25:25 <tav> this is crazy 02:25:30 <tav> 3 brits on at 2:30 am 02:25:47 <finejung> .time 02:25:48 <xena> 2002/01/16 02:27:26.0276 Universal 02:25:50 <tav> and, the americans in the channel are asleep 02:25:50 <finejung> be more precise 02:26:10 <finejung> I have something against america 02:26:17 <finejung> it's called McDonalds 02:26:25 <finejung> *shudder* 02:27:14 <blargh> blargh (~Palmer@m68-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:27:31 <blargh> Just testing out irc through bash 02:27:52 <blargh> it's adequate, I guess 02:27:55 <finejung> irc through bash..? 02:27:57 <sbp> sure is 02:28:04 <blargh> yeah. $ irc 02:28:06 <finejung> like ircII or something? 02:28:09 <finejung> Oh 02:28:12 <blargh> dunno 02:28:18 <finejung> OK 02:28:25 <sbp> $ irc -v 02:28:28 <CygBot> > ircII version 20010101 02:28:29 <CygBot> > 02:28:44 <finejung> aha 02:28:57 <blargh> blargh has quit (Client Quit) 02:28:59 <finejung> is that a backwards date? 02:29:06 <sbp> Um... 02:29:15 <finejung> I mean a date that doesn't confuse americans, or helps the chinese or something 02:29:16 <sbp> Did they write browsers in 1010? 02:29:18 <finejung> ISO 02:29:21 <sbp> yeah 02:29:25 <sbp> YYYYMMDD 02:29:28 <finejung> :) 02:29:30 <sbp> it's a normal date 02:29:30 <finejung> yes 02:29:41 <finejung> yes I try to write them like that 02:29:42 <sbp> .google use ISO date format 02:29:44 <xena> use ISO date format: http://www.saqqara.demon.co.uk/datefmt.htm 02:29:51 <finejung> it's OK I read it 02:29:58 <sbp> Uh huh 02:30:09 <finejung> I usually write ddmmyy if I'm using a pen 02:30:24 <finejung> habit? 02:30:26 <sbp> yeah, me too (for many forms, which seem to expect it) 02:30:30 <finejung> yes 02:30:50 <finejung> avoid confusing the cattle 02:30:59 <finejung> oh what an awful thing to say it must be getting late 02:31:10 <finejung> *yawn* 02:31:26 <finejung> is our society composed of cows? 02:31:30 <finejung> I think not. 02:32:24 <sbp> Pff, who gives a cowpat? 02:32:28 <finejung> *breathe* 02:34:39 <finejung> *hmm* 02:35:04 <sbp> * sbp wonders about bookmarks stored in RDF 02:35:28 <sbp> I don't really use Bookmarks all that often, because once you get more than about 100 of them, they become unusable 02:35:49 <finejung> I'm still looking for a way into RDF 02:35:51 <sbp> But Bookmarking is really the lowest form of hypertext editing 02:36:01 <finejung> I tried Dublin Core and DAML+OIL 02:36:02 <sbp> into: semanticWeb-long, swintro 02:36:12 <sbp> http://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-long 02:36:18 <sbp> http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro/ 02:36:26 <finejung> hmm 02:36:34 <finejung> I've heard of logicerror.com before 02:36:47 <sbp> It's Aaron's domain 02:37:02 <finejung> Ahh 02:37:07 <finejung> yes OK 02:37:27 <sbp> $ u browser http://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-long 02:37:29 <finejung> I've seen that infomesh article before toto 02:37:32 <finejung> *too 02:37:40 <sbp> neat 02:37:50 <sbp> I wrote the infomesh.net article... 02:38:00 <CygBot> > Got it: text/html 02:38:01 <CygBot> > The Semantic Web In Breadth 02:38:01 <finejung> On Tim Finin's AgentNews thing 02:38:02 <CygBot> > @ The Semantic Web In Breadth 02:38:03 <CygBot> > 02:38:04 <CygBot> > by <<AaronSw> Aaron Swartz> (with <<#acks> much assistance>) 02:38:04 <finejung> I think 02:38:05 <CygBot> > 02:38:06 <CygBot> > I keep trying to explain the <<semanticWeb> Semantic Web> to non-technical 02:38:07 <CygBot> > people. Unfortunately, decent non-technical explanations of what the Semantic 02:38:08 <CygBot> > Web is and how it works seem non-existent. This is an attempt to break the 02:38:09 <CygBot> > Semantic Web down into its component parts and to provide a quick summary of 02:38:10 <CygBot> > each part. Be aware that this explanation is both oversimplified and not as 02:38:12 <CygBot> > simple as I'd like it to be. Please <<mailto:me@aaronsw.com> let me know> 02:38:14 <CygBot> > where the wording is unclear or incorrect so that I can continue to improve 02:38:16 <CygBot> > this page. 02:38:18 <CygBot> > 02:38:20 <CygBot> > @ Identifiers: Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) 02:38:22 <CygBot> > 02:38:24 <CygBot> > If I want to discuss something, I must first identify it. How else will you 02:38:26 <CygBot> > [...] 02:38:29 <sbp> wow, it spews a lot of text out. I should trim it down 02:38:31 <finejung> :) 02:38:34 <finejung> yes 02:38:37 <sbp> .google Tim Finin's AgentNews swintro 02:38:38 <xena> no results found. 02:38:42 <finejung> hmm 02:38:43 <sbp> .google Tim Finin's AgentNews Semantic Web 02:38:45 <xena> Tim Finin's AgentNews Semantic Web: http://agents.umbc.edu 02:38:58 <finejung> he generates a newsletter from his page 02:39:18 <sbp> $ lynx http://agents.umbc.edu -dump | grep -i semantic 02:39:19 <finejung> or something... I read it when I'm feeling that way inclined 02:39:27 <CygBot> > 66 [74]E-Services and the Semantic Web workshop (ESSW2002) (1/11) 02:39:28 <CygBot> > 97 [82]Semantic Web Workshop at WWW2002 (1/6) [83]Who points to it? 02:39:28 <CygBot> > 241 [130]ISWC2002 -- Semantic Web Conference (12/9) [131]Who points to 02:39:30 <CygBot> > 574[188] Semantic Web (Sheth, UGA) (11/5) [189]Who points to it? 02:39:31 <CygBot> > 523[202] The semantic web: How RDF will change learning technology 02:39:32 <CygBot> > [234]Semantic Web Conference 02:39:33 <CygBot> > [240]Semantic Web News 02:39:34 <CygBot> > 82. http://agents.umbc.edu/cgi-bin/raw?url=http://semanticweb2002.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/ 02:39:34 <CygBot> > 83. http://www.hotbot.com/?clickSrc=search&MT=http://semanticweb2002.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/&SM=url&DC=50 02:39:36 <CygBot> > 130. http://agents.umbc.edu/cgi-bin/raw?url=http://iswc.semanticweb.org/ 02:39:37 <CygBot> > 131. http://www.hotbot.com/?clickSrc=search&MT=http://iswc.semanticweb.org/&SM=url&DC=50 02:39:39 <CygBot> > 234. http://www.multiagent.com/cgi-bin/r?url=http://iswc.semanticweb.org/ 02:39:41 <CygBot> > 240. http://www.moreover.com/cgi-local/page?o=profportal&h=Search+results+for...++%22semantic+web%22+OR+DAML+OR+%22RDF+schema%22+OR+%22topic+maps%22&query=+%22semantic+web%22+OR+DAML+OR+%22RDF+schema%22+OR+%22topic+maps%22 02:39:44 <CygBot> > [end] 02:39:49 <sbp> cool 02:39:53 <finejung> :) 02:40:08 <sbp> Quite a lot of conference stuff 02:41:33 <finejung> I will read your articles sometime 02:41:41 <finejung> soon 02:41:42 <finejung> :) 02:42:42 <sbp> Heh, heh 02:49:18 <finejung> it is not yet 3am 02:49:27 <finejung> time is a slow thing 02:51:37 <sbp> e 02:51:39 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:01:16 <finejung> would having a BIOS chip on one's keyring be chic or a bit too 80s cyberpunk? 03:02:47 <sbp> 80s cyberpunk, almost certainly :-) 03:03:11 <sbp> Unless you engraved "the 80's suck" on it, in which case it would be acceptable 03:03:17 <finejung> Yes, but too the point of unacceptability? 03:03:21 <finejung> Ahh 03:03:21 <finejung> :) 03:03:26 <sbp> :-) 03:03:30 <finejung> but I like The Smiths 03:03:45 <finejung> they were 80s I believe 03:04:28 <finejung> *sigh* decisions decisions 03:07:12 <AaronSw> * AaronSw succumbs 03:07:21 <finejung> hello 03:07:31 <AaronSw> hi there 03:07:46 <AaronSw> hmm: python.dialup.pol.co.uk 03:08:38 <finejung> "If I want to discuss something, I must first identify it" - AaronSw 03:09:02 <AaronSw> who is this finejung, digging up imprecise statements from my past 03:09:36 <AaronSw> ;_) 03:09:47 <finejung> I named myself Tom Croft earlier, I think. People like names here. 03:09:55 <sbp> Fred 03:10:00 <finejung> Kim? 03:10:10 <finejung> Oh well Fred's OK 03:10:12 <AaronSw> i like uris, personally 03:10:33 <finejung> thankyou :) *flutters his is* 03:10:45 <finejung> that was *um* eyes 03:10:50 <finejung> I'm tired, ignore 03:11:25 <finejung> I suppose I've been trying to find out what's Off Topic. 03:11:25 <AaronSw> oh, right. i was here to blog 03:11:36 <AaronSw> BLURB:Web Graffiti? 03:11:44 <chumpster> A: Web Graffiti? from AaronSw 03:12:04 <sbp> asking what is off-topic is off-topic. Please refrain from doing it 03:12:05 <AaronSw> A::I went to [download QuickTime|http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/] and I found some strange sidebars. 03:12:07 <chumpster> commented item A 03:12:56 <AaronSw> A::[Mac's Rule!|http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/images/mac1.jpg], [Smiley Face|http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/images/mac2.jpg] and [Macs are cool|http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/images/mac3.jpg]. 03:12:58 <chumpster> commented item A 03:13:27 <sbp> Mac's what rule? 03:13:37 <sbp> s/what/whats/ 03:13:39 <finejung> hehe 03:13:57 <AaronSw> i know, it's graffiti -- they don't no grammar 03:14:45 <finejung> Maybe Mac owns a straight thing. 03:15:12 <AaronSw> <sbp> [18:15] argh, when doing comparisons of objects using ==, it tests by object, not by string 03:15:12 <AaronSw> do: repr(a) == repr(b) 03:15:22 <AaronSw> most (all?) __foo__ have a foo built-in 03:15:29 <sbp> thanks 03:15:32 <AaronSw> well except for __add__ and stuff which have + 03:16:24 <AaronSw> <sbp> [01:51] We also maintain the #swhack Weblog, but on the channel we just chat about whatever. Skip through the archives for more details 03:16:24 <AaronSw> it's the Swhack Weblog! 03:16:39 <sbp> Mmmkay 03:16:44 <thc> thc (lambda@modem-4332.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 03:16:47 <deus_x> deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:16:56 <AaronSw> hi thc 03:16:59 <AaronSw> what can we do you for? 03:17:09 <AaronSw> being outlawed in the US? 03:17:21 <thc> Of course 03:17:28 <sbp> thc appears to be Mr. Fred 03:17:34 <thc> Indeed 03:17:37 <AaronSw> Mr. fred? 03:17:46 <sbp> no, Mr. Fred 03:17:47 <thc> I was imitating my hero sbp 03:17:56 <AaronSw> Who is Mr. Fred? 03:18:08 <thc> Just Fred is fine 03:18:24 <AaronSw> fred ?x finejung ? 03:18:48 <thc> ‘?x’? 03:19:11 <AaronSw> translation: what is the relationship between Mr. Fred and finejung 03:19:34 <thc> do I have to express it in RDF? 03:19:44 <AaronSw> nah 03:20:03 <thc> Oh :) Fred appears to be an alias of finejung 03:20:24 <thc> Or maybe Mr. Fred 03:20:33 <AaronSw> aha 03:20:37 <thc> I don't make the rules up, I just live by them 03:20:57 <AaronSw> your writing style is eerily rerminiscent of sbp's 03:21:18 <AaronSw> my real reason for coming is that i hit a snag in my PyChord work... but it is running now. 03:21:44 <sbp> His writing style's nothing like mine. His is competent 03:22:05 <thc> Is sbp a haluciogenic chemical? 03:22:10 <thc> eurgh 03:22:32 <thc> remind me of that .spellchecker 03:22:43 <thc> I think I merely missed an n 03:24:12 <thc> I think I've obliterated fears of competance 03:25:28 <sbp> correct 03:25:33 <sbp> you inept so-and-so 03:25:54 <thc> :) 03:26:27 <thc> anyone know a better way into a hard drive than a hacksaw? 03:26:46 <thc> I want to look at the twirly bits 03:27:13 <sbp> lol! 03:27:34 <sbp> Oh man, this is *so* funny 03:27:35 <sbp> http://monkeyfist.com/DailyChurn/ 03:27:44 <sbp> "RSS 1.0, it's the damn details." 03:28:05 <sbp> Bijan on RSS not allowing repeating elements: "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!" 03:28:06 <AaronSw> .belikesbp 03:28:30 <AaronSw> for the record, that was kenm's idea. i tried to talk him out of it... but no. now he regrets it, tho 03:29:04 <sbp> lol:- 03:29:05 <sbp> [[[ 03:29:06 <sbp> (rBijan) So, ANYTIME you want repeated stuff on an item (like, oh, COMMENTS!!??!?!) you have to wrap it in something. 03:29:06 <sbp> (rBijan) BUT RDF IS FREAKING FLAT, MAN. FLAT TRIPLES YOU GITS!!! 03:29:06 <sbp> ]]] 03:29:46 <AaronSw> heh 03:29:53 <AaronSw> good thing bijan wasn't on the WG 03:30:06 <sbp> Oh man, this is so great 03:30:18 <AaronSw> (rBijan) Curses be to Sean Palmer who pointed out that 5.4 image and 5.4.4 image elements are, well, radically distinct! 03:31:04 <sbp> * sbp laughs out loud at 3:30AM, and tries to shut up 03:31:07 <sbp> """(rBijan) Amazing as it may be, the RSS1.0 team managed, in far shorter time, with a much smaller team, and NO FUNDING, to produce a spec that horks on RDF and RDF users as hard as W3C schemas horks on XML and XML users. Ye gods of the nether regions.""" 03:34:28 <finejung> finejung has quit (Connection timed out) 03:34:54 <AaronSw> -- 03:34:55 <AaronSw> (rBijan) Oo, I have a new theory which saves the RSS1.0 spec writers from an eternity of severe jock itch and intranostril acne. 03:34:55 <AaronSw> (rBijan) They were in a state of shock and confusion from trying to sort out RDF M&S!!! 03:34:55 <AaronSw> (AaronSw) That's it! 03:34:56 <AaronSw> -- 03:35:17 <sbp> Heh, heh! 03:36:46 <AaronSw> uh oh: OOOO, AARON JUST TOlD ME THAT THAT MIDWESTERN FREAK BISKO IS TO BLAME FOR THE NON-REPEATABILITY OF TOP LEVEL OBJECT PROPERTIES. 03:37:03 <AaronSw> .acronym MPH 03:37:05 <xena> MPH: Miles Per Hour, Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc. (NYSE stock symbol), Half-Duplex Modulation Parameters (V.34 Negotiation), Manlius Pebble Hill, Masters in Public Health (degree), Minimum Path Heuristic, Mobile Parts Hospital 03:37:13 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m10-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 03:37:32 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m10-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:39:51 <sbp> Wow, RSS has really driven bijan to the break of insanity: "(rBijan) Ohhhhhhhh KEN! Ken KEN!!! Wherefore art thou KEN. I want to beat the crap OUT of you!" 03:40:18 <sbp> s/break/brink/ 03:40:20 <AaronSw> <rBijan> Good fun and steam blowing and ADVERTING PHYSICAL VIOLENCE AGAINST YOUR PERSON...er...friendship! 03:42:40 <sbp> .wn hork 03:42:49 <sbp> Blargh 03:43:03 <thc> ... 03:44:00 <AaronSw> Where's CygBot when you need him. 03:44:55 <CygBot`> CygBot` (~sbp@m10-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:45:05 <AaronSw> .belikesbp 03:45:06 <CygBot`> Ah, I love to rant 03:45:15 <AaronSw> .belikesbp 03:45:17 <CygBot`> wow, the email on www-html these days is often terrible 03:46:33 <thc> .wd need 03:46:45 <sbp> .wn need 03:46:47 <xena> need defined as: 03:46:48 <xena> - n 1: a condition requiring relief; "she satified his need for affection"; "God has no need of men to accomplish His work"; "there is a demand for jobs" [syn: {demand}] 03:46:49 <xena> - 2: anything that is necessary but lacking; "he had sufficient means to meet his simple needs"; "I tried to supply his wants" [syn: {want}] 03:46:50 <xena> - 3: the psychological feature that arouses an organism to action; the reason for the action; "we did not understand his motivation"; "he acted with the best of motives" [syn: {motivation}, {motive}] 03:46:51 <xena> - 4: a state of extreme poverty or destitution; "their indigence appalled him"; "a general state of need exists among the homeless" [syn: {indigence}, {penury}, {pauperism}] 03:46:53 <sbp> .belikesbp 03:46:54 <CygBot`> w3c-wai-er-ig has been a bit quiet recently 03:46:57 <thc> wn?? :) 03:47:07 <sbp> .google WordNet 03:47:09 <xena> WordNet: http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/~wn 03:47:50 <thc> .acronym wn 03:47:51 <xena> wn: Southwest Airlines (FAA designation), Warning Notice, Washington State (legal abbreviation), What's New?, White Noise, Will Not 03:48:22 <thc> I suppose WordNet is somewhat unofficial 03:48:41 <AaronSw> No, it's a licensed Dictionary Professional. 03:48:54 <sbp> .wn DP 03:48:55 <xena> DP defined as: 03:48:56 <xena> - n : a person forced to flee from home or country [syn: {displaced person}, {DP}, {stateless person}] 03:49:06 <sbp> .acronym DP 03:49:07 <xena> DP: Data Processing, Doctor of Pharmacy, Dot Pitch, (USN Rating) Data-Processing Technician, By Direction of the President, Data Package, Data Systems Interoperability Panel, DCS/Personnel, Death Penalty, Decision Paper/Package, Decision Point, Deck Paint, Deep, Deep (drafting), Defect Prevention, Defective Pricing, Defense Program, Definitely Promote, Delhi Police, Delivery Point 03:50:22 <sbp> what was the Lovecraftian tidbit? 03:51:32 <sbp> .acronym MIW 03:51:33 <xena> MIW: Make It Work, Marketing Information Warehouse, Mechanical Impact Wrench, Mine Warfare, Minimum Income Widow/er (DoD SBP), Modernization Input Worksheet 03:51:54 <sbp> DoD SBP? I'm in the DoD now, am I? 03:52:17 <thc> :o) 03:52:19 <thc> .acronym HP 03:52:21 <xena> HP: Hewlett-Packard, Horsepower, Hale Pohaku (Dormitory at Mauna Kea Observatories), Half-Pint, Hand Phone (cellular phone), Hand Picked (groundnuts), Harmonic Power, Harp, Harry Potter, Headphone(s), Health Physicist, Health Physics, Health Practitioner, Heat Pipe, Helmerich & Payne (oil company), Hemi-Pelvectomy (amputation), Heptode, Hide Position, High Pass (Filter), High Performance 03:52:34 <sbp> WTF: Dormitory at Mauna Kea Observatories 03:52:40 <sbp> .google HP Dormitory at Mauna Kea Observatories 03:52:43 <xena> HP Dormitory at Mauna Kea Observatories: http://www.hawaii.edu/news/kulama/970321/kulama970321.html 03:53:16 <thc> doesn't look lovecraftian 03:53:29 <sbp> .wn lovecraft 03:53:41 <sbp> Blargh 03:53:45 <sbp> .google lovecraftian 03:53:46 <thc> .wn cthulhu 03:53:48 <xena> lovecraftian: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8611/cthulhu.htm 03:55:10 <thc> .spell arkham 03:55:22 <xena> potential spellings for arkham are: archaism, archaic, archaea, arcade, archaeal, arcane, Archaean, archaean, archaize, archeol 03:55:39 <sbp> .spell xena 03:55:40 <xena> potential spellings for xena are: scena, Sanaa, senna, sana, Sana, xenia, xeno-, Xenia, zener, sennas, saner, scenas, senate 03:55:55 <thc> .spell orc 03:55:55 <sbp> rename xena senate! 03:56:03 <xena> potential spellings for orc are: orch, Ork, orach, orache, orca, OCR, Orczy, ort, Orsk, Ark, ARC 03:56:08 <thc> I like Scena 03:56:30 <sbp> Heh, we're really smegging up the logs today. t*v will be furious 03:56:44 <CygBot`> CygBot` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:57:01 <thc> * thc takes a vow of silance 03:57:10 <CygBot> CygBot (~sean@m10-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:57:11 <thc> silence? 03:57:58 <CygBot> something like that 03:58:25 <AaronSw> aargh. he's doing the talky thing again 03:58:27 <AaronSw> .say ok 03:58:29 <comanche> comanche (code-demon@dhcp024-209-073-171.woh.rr.com) has joined #swhack 03:58:33 <comanche> comanche has left #swhack 03:58:38 <CygBot> Make me 03:58:48 <AaronSw> .sean make me 03:58:57 <AaronSw> .msg #swhack ok 03:58:58 <xena> ok 03:58:59 <CygBot> WTF? 03:59:14 <CygBot> ah, you're trying to work out what channel/msg syntax I'm using! 03:59:18 <sbp> Heh, heh 03:59:19 <AaronSw> Yeah. 03:59:33 <sbp> * sbp wonders if he'll find it 03:59:37 <AaronSw> $ cat coolbot.py | grep msg 04:00:02 <CygBot> Command "$ cat coolbot.py | grep msg" has been disabled 04:00:06 <AaronSw> pfft. 04:00:09 <sbp> Heh, heh 04:00:26 <AaronSw> I should have installed a trapdoor when I was there. 04:00:40 <sbp> Blargh 04:00:44 <AaronSw> wait -- you run windows! it comes with trapdoors built-in! 04:00:49 <sbp> Heh 04:01:52 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:02:12 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:02:19 <AaronSw> make it say something again 04:02:34 <sbp> er... it's not up at the moment, and I'm just hacking it 04:02:49 <AaronSw> blargh 04:04:25 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:04:34 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:04:43 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:05:19 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:05:35 <CygBot> There, that's better 04:07:00 <AaronSw> It's no fun with you having to approve everything 04:07:16 <sbp> sure it is 04:07:17 <AaronSw> $ cat cygbot.py 04:07:24 <CygBot> > cat: cygbot.py: No such file or directory 04:07:25 <CygBot> > [end] 04:07:31 <AaronSw> $ cat coolbot* 04:07:33 <CygBot> Command "cat coolbot*" has been disabled 04:07:52 <sbp> it'd only do the top anyway, and pollute the channel 04:08:15 <AaronSw> $ cat cygbot.py | grep say( 04:08:20 <CygBot> Command "cat cygbot.py | grep say(" has been disabled 04:08:41 <AaronSw> $ man cygwin 04:08:55 <CygBot> > man: not found 04:08:55 <CygBot> > [end] 04:08:59 <AaronSw> $ man bash 04:09:07 <CygBot> > man: not found 04:09:08 <CygBot> > [end] 04:09:14 <AaronSw> hmmph 04:09:29 <CygBot> Heh, heh 04:09:47 <AaronSw> i hate that feature 04:10:02 <sbp> what, the "not found" feature? It's not a feature of the bot :-) 04:10:28 <sbp> It's pretty obvious why I have to have that much security. I'm not going to open up my hard drive to absolutely anyone 04:10:41 <AaronSw> it's not anyone -- it's me! 04:10:47 <sbp> Heh, heh 04:10:47 <thc> :) 04:10:58 <AaronSw> you can trust me. 04:11:16 <AaronSw> Here, just download this program -- it's called Back Orifice. 04:11:21 <sbp> heh, heh, heh 04:11:39 <sbp> Yeah, I've heard that it's very good at what it does 04:11:59 <AaronSw> remote administration -- it's for people like me to assist you with your computer difficulties 04:12:26 <sbp> Well, you can still do the commands 04:12:29 <sbp> $ pwd 04:12:30 <CygBot> > /home 04:12:30 <CygBot> > [end] 04:12:48 <AaronSw> $ wget http://crackz.org/BackOrifice.zip 04:12:53 <CygBot> Command "wget http://crackz.org/BackOrifice.zip" has been disabled 04:12:59 <AaronSw> pff 04:13:13 <sbp> s/the/sensible/ 04:13:25 <CygBot> Yeah, be sensible, Aaron 04:13:51 <AaronSw> now I know why I didn't want to come on IRC. 04:13:55 <sbp> Wow, you hacked spankybot so easily, I'm quite surprised with this bot 04:14:21 <sbp> I can get rid of it, if you like 04:14:32 <sbp> e 04:14:33 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:14:41 <AaronSw> pff, ruin all the fun 04:14:49 <sbp> fine 04:14:53 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:14:58 <AaronSw> e 04:15:03 <sbp> :-) 04:15:05 <thc> heh 04:15:34 <sbp> I can also make it quit using the console, but, y'know, that'd involve opening the other window... 04:15:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit (Excess Flood) 04:15:54 <sbp> lol! 04:16:03 <sbp> He was flooding CygBot on PMSG 04:16:08 <AaronSw> AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 04:16:09 <thc> ahh 04:16:15 <sbp> yeah :-) 04:16:34 <AaronSw> .seen AaronSw 2 04:16:35 <xena> AaronSw seen in #p2p-hackers saying: [ sigcomm; yes ] ~ 3 sec(s) ago 04:16:38 <AaronSw> .seen AaronSw 3 04:16:39 <xena> AaronSw seen in #p2p-hackers saying: [ sigcomm; yes ] ~ 7 sec(s) ago 04:16:46 <AaronSw> oh, xena doesn't log quits 04:17:08 <sbp> *** AaronSw has quit IRC (Excess Flood) 04:17:13 <AaronSw> flood? 04:17:15 <AaronSw> oh 04:17:16 <AaronSw> that 04:17:25 <sbp> yeah, we know what you did... :-) 04:18:38 <thc> $ ls 04:18:48 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 04:18:50 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 04:18:50 <CygBot> > 0.95-think.n3 04:18:51 <CygBot> > 0.95.html 04:18:52 <CygBot> > 0.95.n3 04:18:53 <CygBot> > 2000 04:18:54 <CygBot> > 2001-12-31.txt 04:18:55 <CygBot> > 20020112-141032.bash_history 04:18:57 <CygBot> > 20020112-184806.sha 04:18:57 <CygBot> > 4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1 04:19:01 <CygBot> > ATCS2.html 04:19:02 <CygBot> > ATCS2.txt 04:19:04 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223625.sh 04:19:06 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223634.sh 04:19:08 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223647.sh 04:19:10 <CygBot> > Copy of SimpleText.py 04:19:12 <CygBot> > Copy of rdfstoxhtml.n3 04:19:14 <CygBot> > Copy of simpsons.py 04:19:16 <CygBot> > [...] 04:19:27 <thc> that's alot of output 04:19:35 <sbp> DCC? That's clever, Aaron 04:19:59 <sbp> yeah, I should trim the output down 04:20:14 <sbp> I've been wondering about: n$ command, where n is the max. number of lines to output 04:20:39 <thc> to allow larger outputs if needed 04:20:52 <thc> then limit to something smaller, say only 6 lines 04:20:56 <sbp> yep 04:21:23 <AaronSw> http://cvs.plexdev.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/plex/plex/chord/ 04:21:25 <thc> an absolute maximum of something less than 25 would help 04:21:40 <AaronSw> except by privmsg 04:23:18 <AaronSw> deltab, feel free to tell me why http://cvs.plexdev.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/plex/plex/chord/main.py?rev=1.3&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup doesn't work 04:26:14 <sbp> e 04:26:15 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:26:31 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:26:58 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:27:00 <AaronSw> I like the "die, die, die" syntax a lot better than "e" 04:27:18 <sbp> heh, heh 04:29:09 <AaronSw> * AaronSw minimiezes 04:29:14 <AaronSw> err minimizes 04:32:45 <thc> .time 04:32:46 <xena> 2002/01/16 04:34:24.165 Universal 04:33:07 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:33:14 <thc> $ date 04:33:20 <CygBot> > Wed Jan 16 04:34:07 2002 04:33:20 <CygBot> > [end] 04:33:45 <thc> .spell discrepency 04:34:07 <xena> potential spellings for discrepency are: discrepancy, discrepancies, discordancy, discreteness, discreetness, descriptions, discordancies, discreetnesses, disaccharides, discordances 04:34:33 <thc> aha a discrepancy 04:36:02 <sbp> ugh, Aaron: 55. Aaron Swartz 59 04:36:43 <thc> thc has left #swhack 04:36:54 <thc> thc (lambda@modem-4332.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 04:36:57 <sbp> wb 04:37:16 <thc> ty; hit some strange key combination 04:37:23 <sbp> Heh, cool 04:40:15 <thc> $ have fun 04:40:23 <CygBot> > have: not found 04:40:23 <CygBot> > [end] 04:40:30 <thc> $ touch yourself 04:40:39 <CygBot> > [end] 04:40:58 <AaronSw> .google mac os x watson 04:41:00 <thc> & ls -l yourself 04:41:00 <xena> mac os x watson: /url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.allosx.com/&e=42 04:41:12 <AaronSw> .google karelia watson 04:41:13 <xena> karelia watson: http://www.karelia.com/watson 04:42:40 <sbp> $ ls -l yourself 04:42:42 <CygBot> > ls: yourself: No such file or directory 04:42:42 <CygBot> > [end] 04:42:56 <sbp> s/&/$/ 04:43:05 <thc> I noticed 04:43:14 <thc> I was sidetracked by watson though 04:43:28 <thc> or kaelia or something 04:44:37 <sbp> * sbp did a sneaky $ rm yourself 04:44:49 <thc> * thc guessed as much 04:44:57 <sbp> Heh, heh 04:46:10 <thc> $ /usr/games/fortune 04:46:16 <CygBot> > /usr/games/fortune: not found 04:46:16 <CygBot> > [end] 04:46:34 <sbp> feel free to download it 04:46:34 <thc> .fortune 04:46:35 <xena> Constraints imposed on pleasure incite the pleasure of living without constraints. 04:47:02 <thc> download it how? 04:47:28 <sbp> dunno. find it on the Web for me, and use wget, or whatever. You have access to my shell :-) 04:47:51 <sbp> actually, I should get it through CygWin, but that means I'll have to restart it 04:47:53 <thc> I assumed such things would be restricted 04:48:05 <sbp> no, not restricted for that 04:48:22 <thc> $ wget --help 04:48:29 <CygBot> > Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]... 04:48:30 <CygBot> > 04:48:31 <CygBot> > Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. 04:48:32 <CygBot> > 04:48:33 <CygBot> > Startup: 04:48:34 <CygBot> > -V, --version display the version of Wget and exit. 04:48:35 <CygBot> > -h, --help print this help. 04:48:36 <CygBot> > -b, --background go to background after startup. 04:48:37 <CygBot> > -e, --execute=COMMAND execute a `.wgetrc'-style command. 04:48:38 <CygBot> > 04:48:39 <CygBot> > Logging and input file: 04:48:41 <CygBot> > -o, --output-file=FILE log messages to FILE. 04:48:43 <CygBot> > -a, --append-output=FILE append messages to FILE. 04:48:45 <CygBot> > -d, --debug print debug output. 04:48:47 <CygBot> > -q, --quiet quiet (no output). 04:48:49 <CygBot> > -v, --verbose be verbose (this is the default). 04:48:51 <CygBot> > -nv, --non-verbose turn off verboseness, without being quiet. 04:48:53 <CygBot> > -i, --input-file=FILE download URLs found in FILE. 04:48:55 <CygBot> > [...] 04:49:00 <thc> I should really pmsg this sort of thing 04:49:16 <sbp> it'll spew it to the channel still. I need to fix that 04:49:18 <sbp> * sbp does so 04:49:26 <tav> $ wget http://google.com 04:49:36 <CygBot> > --04:50:21-- http://google.com/ 04:49:37 <CygBot> > => `index.html' 04:49:37 <CygBot> > Connecting to google.com:80... connected! 04:49:38 <CygBot> > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Moved Temporarily 04:49:40 <CygBot> > Location: http://www.google.com/ [following] 04:49:40 <CygBot> > --04:50:22-- http://www.google.com/ 04:49:42 <CygBot> > => `index.html' 04:49:43 <CygBot> > Connecting to www.google.com:80... connected! 04:49:44 <CygBot> > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK 04:49:45 <CygBot> > Length: 2,202 [text/html] 04:49:46 <CygBot> > 04:49:48 <CygBot> > 0K .. 100% @ 4.89 KB/s 04:49:50 <CygBot> > 04:49:52 <CygBot> > 04:50:23 (4.89 KB/s) - `index.html' saved [2202/2202] 04:49:54 <CygBot> > 04:49:56 <CygBot> > [end] 04:49:59 <thc> cool :-) 04:50:15 <sbp> * sbp hopes there wasn't anything decent in index.html 04:50:41 <tav> w00p! we can download stuff to sbp's computer 04:50:46 <thc> :o) 04:50:50 <sbp> :-) 04:51:54 <tav> $ wget http://www.bushmen-tribe.com/usr/ost/Shakira%20-%20Whenever,%20Wherever.mpeg 04:51:59 <CygBot> Command "wget http://www.bushmen-tribe.com/usr/ost/Shakira%20-%20Whenever,%20Wherever.mpeg" has been disabled 04:52:08 <tav> damnit! 04:52:12 <tav> $ ls 04:52:15 <sbp> ".mpeg"? Pff 04:52:18 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 04:52:19 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 04:52:20 <CygBot> > 0.95-think.n3 04:52:21 <CygBot> > 0.95.html 04:52:22 <CygBot> > 0.95.n3 04:52:23 <CygBot> > 2000 04:52:24 <CygBot> > 2001-12-31.txt 04:52:25 <CygBot> > 20020112-141032.bash_history 04:52:26 <CygBot> > 20020112-184806.sha 04:52:27 <CygBot> > 4a59e80b6a5bfb4c8d8a592086a290b347c5d2b62418abe878cfa8037063ca268edeadd184bc3d54bf683584f294caf7a3109c90458b45f93d25587618070fa1 04:52:29 <CygBot> > ATCS2.html 04:52:31 <CygBot> > ATCS2.txt 04:52:33 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223625.sh 04:52:35 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223634.sh 04:52:38 <CygBot> > Copy of 20020109-223647.sh 04:52:39 <CygBot> > Copy of SimpleText.py 04:52:41 <CygBot> > Copy of rdfstoxhtml.n3 04:52:43 <CygBot> > Copy of simpsons.py 04:52:45 <CygBot> > [...] 04:53:00 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:53:03 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:53:07 <tav> heh 04:53:12 <sbp> * sbp cuts the spew length down to 10 04:53:16 <tav> $ du -s 04:53:41 <CygBot> Command "du -s" has been disabled 04:53:44 <tav> heh 04:53:48 <tav> $ df 04:53:57 <CygBot> Command "df" has been disabled 04:54:03 <tav> $ pwd 04:54:07 <CygBot> > /home 04:54:07 <CygBot> > [end] 04:54:14 <tav> $ pwd; wget wget http://www.bushmen-tribe.com/usr/ost/Shakira%20-%20Whenever,%20Wherever.mpeg 04:54:21 <CygBot> Command "pwd; wget wget http://www.bushmen-tribe.com/usr/ost/Shakira%20-%20Whenever,%20Wherever.mpeg" has been disabled 04:54:28 <sbp> ".mpeg"? Heh, heh 04:54:38 <tav> it's a good music vid 04:54:46 <sbp> Uh huh? How big? 04:54:51 <tav> 40 odd megs 04:54:54 <sbp> :-) 04:54:59 <thc> hehe 04:56:34 <thc> $ pwd; wget http://ils.student.utwente.nl/main/s/simon_and_garfunkel/america.crd # oh what a thrill! 04:56:47 <CygBot> > --04:57:33-- http://ils.student.utwente.nl/main/s/simon_and_garfunkel/america.crd 04:56:48 <CygBot> > => `america.crd' 04:56:49 <CygBot> > Connecting to ils.student.utwente.nl:80... connected! 04:56:50 <CygBot> > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK 04:56:51 <CygBot> > Length: 4,993 [text/plain] 04:56:52 <CygBot> > 04:56:53 <CygBot> > 0K .... 100% @ 4.76 MB/s 04:56:54 <CygBot> > 04:56:55 <CygBot> > 04:57:34 (4.76 MB/s) - `america.crd' saved [4993/4993] 04:56:56 <CygBot> > [...] 04:56:58 <thc> *hmm* 04:56:59 <AaronSw> heh! 04:57:03 <sbp> "America" is a great song 04:57:09 <thc> indeed 04:57:14 <sbp> But I can already play it 04:57:15 <thc> $ pwd 04:57:20 <CygBot> > /home 04:57:20 <CygBot> > [end] 04:57:22 <thc> Oh :-) 04:57:25 <sbp> So I didn't really need the chords... 04:57:31 <thc> everyone should be able to play that song 04:57:35 <sbp> indeed 04:57:39 <thc> well it's for reference 04:57:42 <thc> :D 04:57:45 <sbp> :-) 04:59:48 <sbp> e 04:59:49 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:01:26 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:01:30 <sbp> $ ls 05:01:31 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 05:01:32 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 05:01:33 <CygBot> > 0.95-think.n3 05:01:34 <CygBot> > 0.95.html 05:01:35 <CygBot> > 0.95.n3 05:01:36 <CygBot> > 2000 05:01:38 <CygBot> > [...] 05:01:42 <sbp> 5$ ls 05:01:43 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 05:01:43 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 05:01:43 <CygBot> > 0.95-think.n3 05:01:43 <CygBot> > 0.95.html 05:01:44 <CygBot> > [...] 05:01:48 <sbp> 3$ ls 05:01:48 <thc> :-)) 05:01:49 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 05:01:49 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 05:01:50 <CygBot> > [...] 05:02:00 <thc> 0$ ls 05:02:08 <sbp> it seems to work. It'll probably crash if you do 1$ ls, but oh well 05:02:11 <thc> -2$ ls 05:02:15 <thc> oh 05:02:20 <sbp> 1$ ls 05:02:21 <CygBot> > [...] 05:02:27 <thc> hehe cool 05:02:28 <sbp> ooh, it didn't crash 05:02:45 <thc> and is there a maximum? 05:03:02 <sbp> yep: 15/20 05:03:07 <sbp> ooh, I messed that up 05:03:40 <sbp> "if the maximum length is bigger than 15, set the maximum length to 20" - paraphrasing the CygBot source code 05:03:49 <sbp> what shall I set it to? 05:03:49 <thc> Ah 05:04:03 <thc> hm 05:04:15 <thc> will privmsg be longer? 05:04:24 <sbp> I can make it so 05:04:35 <thc> that would be a good idea 05:04:35 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:04:51 <thc> then in-channel can limit to maybe 12 05:05:05 <thc> half a terminal 05:05:44 <thc> sorta makes sense :) 05:06:36 <sbp> sorta 05:07:06 <thc> .spell sorta 05:07:07 <xena> potential spellings for sorta are: Sorata, sutra, Surat, Seurat, sorts, Srta, souter, sortie, sauter, suiter, Soria, Surtees, Souter 05:07:40 <thc> sortie... I associate that word with parties and french lingerie 05:07:45 <thc> wonder what it means 05:08:03 <sbp> aviation thing, I think 05:08:04 <sbp> .wn sortie 05:08:05 <xena> sortie defined as: 05:08:06 <xena> - n 1: a military action in which besieged troops burst forth from their position [syn: {sally}] 05:08:07 <xena> - 2: an operational flight by a single aircraft (as in a military operation) 05:08:41 <thc> *hmm* Maybe I should see a psychologist 05:09:08 <thc> s/psychologist/psychiatrist 05:09:32 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:09:57 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:11:30 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:11:53 <thc> 99$ cat `ls` `ls` `ls` 05:12:48 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:13:02 <sbp> heh, it allowed it, but it took too long. You got greedy 05:13:07 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:13:14 <thc> oh sorry :o) 05:13:39 <thc> 20$ ls 05:13:50 <CygBot> > 0.95-schema.html 05:13:52 <CygBot> > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 05:13:53 <CygBot> > 0.95-think.n3 05:13:54 <CygBot> > 0.95.html 05:13:55 <CygBot> > 0.95.n3 05:13:56 <CygBot> > 2000 05:13:56 <CygBot> > 2001-12-31.txt 05:13:57 <CygBot> > 20020112-141032.bash_history 05:13:59 <CygBot> > 20020112-184806.sha 05:14:00 <CygBot> > [...] 05:14:24 <sbp> maxlen = 10 05:14:37 <thc> yes 05:14:53 <thc> 9 real lines 05:15:06 <thc> .spell abstemious 05:15:07 <xena> potential spellings for abstemious are: abstemious, abstemiously, abstains, abstentious, abstainers, obesities, epistomes, abscises, abscissas, Abbasids 05:16:57 <AaronSw> http://www.apple.com/myths/. 05:17:07 <AaronSw> http://www.apple.com/myths/ 05:17:10 <thc> thc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:20:06 <thc> thc (lambda@modem-4332.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 05:21:14 <sbp> wb 05:21:30 <thc> ty 05:21:36 <sbp> np 05:21:41 <thc> ok 05:21:47 <sbp> hh 05:21:59 <thc> vg 05:22:10 <sbp> pm 05:22:16 <thc> nt 05:22:40 <sbp> um 05:22:46 <thc> er 05:22:49 <sbp> lol 05:23:16 <thc> $ w 05:23:29 <CygBot> > w: not found 05:23:29 <CygBot> > [end] 05:23:47 <thc> $ who 05:23:55 <CygBot> > who: /var/run/utmp 05:23:56 <CygBot> > [end] 05:24:24 <thc> $ file /var/run/utmp # *blink* 05:24:35 <CygBot> Command "file /var/run/utmp # *blink*" has been disabled 05:24:41 <thc> no file? 05:24:52 <sbp> doesn't seem so 05:25:14 <sbp> $ file /var/run/utmp 05:25:15 <CygBot> > /var/run/utmp: empty 05:25:15 <CygBot> > [end] 05:25:37 <thc> file is a very good command 05:25:48 <sbp> Perhaps I should allow your natty [sic] comments? :-) 05:25:53 <sbp> $ file --help 05:25:54 <CygBot> > Usage: file [-bciknsvzL] [-f namefile] [-m magicfiles] file... 05:25:54 <CygBot> > Usage: file -C [-m magic] 05:25:54 <CygBot> > [end] 05:26:09 <thc> Ahh 05:26:25 <sbp> yes, it is a cool command 05:26:40 <sbp> 5$ file blargh* 05:26:41 <CygBot> > blargh mCrypto: directory 05:26:41 <CygBot> > blargh-out.text: empty 05:26:41 <CygBot> > blargh.bat: ASCII text, with CRLF line terminators 05:26:41 <CygBot> > blargh.txt: ASCII text, with CRLF line terminators 05:26:41 <CygBot> > [...] 05:26:56 <thc> hehe 05:27:29 <sbp> $ ls blargh\ mCrypto | wc 05:27:30 <CygBot> > 24 24 267 05:27:31 <CygBot> > [end] 05:28:05 <thc> $ ls -1 *blargh* | wc 05:28:14 <CygBot> > 34 34 381 05:28:14 <CygBot> > [end] 05:29:08 <thc> 1$ grep --help 05:29:12 <CygBot> > [...] 05:29:18 <thc> 2$ grep --help 05:29:21 <CygBot> > Search for PATTERN in each FILE or standard input. 05:29:22 <CygBot> > [...] 05:29:24 <sbp> So, thc, do you have a homepage or other Web presence? 05:29:34 <thc> not... exactly 05:29:55 <thc> I suffer from content defficiency 05:30:04 <sbp> really? I wouldn't have guessed 05:30:28 <thc> because I'm stupid and shallow? 05:30:40 <thc> :D 05:30:58 <sbp> argh, no sarcasm intended 05:31:16 <sbp> which is odd, for me 05:31:17 <AaronSw> sbp, what was it you wanted me to do to my website? 05:32:05 <AaronSw> how's this: 05:32:14 <AaronSw> $ u browser http://www.aaronsw.com/ 05:32:27 <AaronSw> .http://www.aaronsw.com/ 05:32:30 <xena> Aaron Swartz | AaronSw | my.life my.life: the wacky story of aaron swartz Nearby: swartzfam.com | crit this page | google backlinks If this page seems devoid of color and excitement, you need a browser that supports CSS. If you're interested you can find a CSS-compliant browser. Prose School Curious how I'm doing? Check out schoolyard subversion my real-life weblog of the plot to change my 05:32:31 <xena> school. My best piece so far is on unschooling, a program to learn on your own. Other highlights include my plan for Apprentice Education, my questioning of school rules and my review of ArsDigita University. Join the revolution. Swhack Weblog My friends and I run the Swhack Weblog where we post links and notes we find interesting. I also "chump" interesting Semantic Web-related sites on the RDF IG 05:32:31 <xena> .. a very large amount of text. 05:32:32 <CygBot> > Code was 302 (http://swartzfam.com/aaron/), continue? [Y/N]: Getting http://swartzfam.com/aaron/... 05:32:33 <CygBot> > Got it: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 05:32:34 <CygBot> > Aaron Swartz | AaronSw | my.life 05:32:35 <CygBot> > <<doorknob.jpg> My face reflected in a doorknob.> 05:32:36 <CygBot> > @ my.life: the wacky story of aaron swartz 05:32:37 <CygBot> > 05:32:38 <CygBot> > [...] 05:32:46 <sbp> ah, cool 05:32:54 <AaronSw> "If this page seems devoid of color and excitement, you need a browser that supports CSS. If you're interested you can find a CSS-compliant browser." 05:33:08 <sbp> yep, I realized. It's kinda funny 05:33:19 <AaronSw> Why's that? 05:33:30 <sbp> it's not what most people say on their sites :-) 05:33:49 <sbp> BTW, new syntax: d$ command, where d is a digit indicating length of output 05:33:53 <sbp> maximum: 10 05:34:11 <AaronSw> i saw 05:35:31 <thc> .time 05:35:32 <xena> 2002/01/16 05:37:10.2903 Universal 05:35:34 <thc> Heh my mother just got up. 05:35:48 <sbp> :-) 05:35:52 <sbp> How old are ya? 05:37:00 <thc> 18 05:37:11 <thc> too old, imho 05:37:23 <sbp> Heh. Well I'm 19, so that's way too old :-) 05:38:54 <AaronSw> and i'm not, so that's, um... 05:38:54 <AaronSw> anyway, how are things with the misses? 05:39:23 <sbp> I don't miss much 05:39:23 <AaronSw> that's one way to deal with it, i guess 05:39:23 <sbp> :-) 05:39:23 <AaronSw> thc probably was thinking of soiree not sortie 05:39:23 <thc> :-) 05:39:23 <thc> no soiree crossed my mind at the time 05:39:23 <thc> I just didn't know what sortie meant 05:39:41 <AaronSw> i meant re: <thc> sortie... I associate that word with parties and french lingerie 05:39:46 <tav> tav is now known as this-channel-sux 05:39:52 <thc> I know. 05:39:52 <this-channel-sux> this-channel-sux is now known as tav 05:39:55 <AaronSw> hmm, but whcih channel is that? 05:40:02 <sbp> Heh! I was just wondering that 05:40:11 <thc> tav on #swhack 05:40:14 <thc> *hmm* 05:40:15 <sbp> That was a really bad case of nick-change-joke-spill 05:40:23 <AaronSw> i think that was the joke. 05:40:27 <AaronSw> maybe.. 05:40:31 <sbp> Hmm... 05:40:47 <AaronSw> xena needs a scroll up feature for times like this. 05:40:53 <sbp> heh, heh 05:41:03 <AaronSw> .seen tav 3 05:41:04 <xena> tav seen in #swhack saying: [ 40 odd megs ] ~ 46 min(s) 12 sec(s) ago 05:41:07 <AaronSw> .seen tav 2 05:41:08 <xena> tav seen changing nickname to this-channel-sux ~ 1 min(s) 21 sec(s) ago 05:41:10 <tav> heh 05:41:12 <AaronSw> hmm 05:41:14 <sbp> Hmm... 05:42:01 <sbp> so thc, how on earth did you find #swhack? 05:42:30 <AaronSw> I'm guessing it's Wave Diner's fault. 05:42:52 <sbp> how so? 05:42:54 <thc> part of logicerror, some time ago 05:43:08 <thc> I've been here briefly before 05:43:13 <sbp> Ah, it's Aaron 05:43:17 <AaronSw> Well, I ate at Wave Diner once, but the food wasn't very good... 05:43:18 <thc> indeed 05:43:19 <sbp> Aaron's fault 05:43:23 <sbp> damn ' key 05:43:26 <sbp> .belikesbp 05:43:27 <CygBot> wow, the email on www-html these days is often terrible 05:43:29 <sbp> .belikesbp 05:43:30 <CygBot> Hmm... I wonder what other uses of the Semantic Web there are? 05:43:31 <sbp> .belikesbp 05:43:32 <CygBot> Ugh, damn ' key! 05:43:35 <sbp> hooray! 05:43:36 <AaronSw> Heh. 05:43:39 <thc> hehe 05:43:42 <AaronSw> bad random number generator 05:43:45 <sbp> :-) 05:44:06 <sbp> what didya call yourself when you were here before? 05:44:16 <thc> checking logs? 05:44:20 <thc> probably finejung 05:44:24 <AaronSw> finejung... i wondered if he was fine tuning for a second 05:44:26 <sbp> can do. We have logster grep 05:44:34 <thc> cool 05:44:38 <AaronSw> .seen finejung 05:44:39 <xena> finejung seen in #swhack saying: [ Maybe Mac owns a straight thing. ] ~ 2 hr(s) 29 min(s) 54 sec(s) ago 05:44:47 <sbp> logster, grep 1-1 finejung 05:45:00 <logster> I'm logging. I found 149 answers for 'finejung' (showing 1...1) 05:45:01 <logster> 1) 2002-01-16 05:44:39 <xena> finejung seen in #swhack saying: [ Maybe Mac owns a straight thing. ] ~ 2 hr(s) 29 min(s) 54 sec(s) ago 05:45:03 <sbp> greps take ages 05:45:17 <AaronSw> heh 05:45:23 <thc> heh you'll need to go previous to today 05:45:25 <AaronSw> that was two hours ago? 05:45:43 <sbp> yeah 05:45:53 <thc> 2.5, time is bizarre 05:45:56 <AaronSw> oh, finejung saying it was. 05:47:17 <thc> I could supply a time for when I was here, probably 05:47:29 <sbp> ah: 2001-12-19 05:48:35 <thc> Session Start: Mon Dec 17 01:39:43 2001 05:48:35 <AaronSw> 2001-12-19 05:48:45 <thc> hmm 05:48:51 <thc> :) 05:49:19 <AaronSw> http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-17 05:50:03 <sbp> $ lynx http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-17 -dump | grep 1:39 05:50:12 <CygBot> > 01:39:18 [AaronSw] 05:50:13 <CygBot> > 01:39:30 [sbp] 05:50:14 <CygBot> > 01:39:57 [AaronSw] 05:50:15 <CygBot> > 02:51:39 [sbp] 05:50:16 <CygBot> > 21:39:37 [Stu] 05:50:17 <CygBot> > 22:01:39 [Morbus] 05:50:18 <CygBot> > [...] 05:50:23 <sbp> yeah, that sucked 05:50:30 <sbp> $ lynx http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-17.txt -dump | grep 01:39 05:50:31 <thc> :) 05:50:37 <CygBot> > 01:39:08 <AaronSw> "The most challenging and thoughtful Web design book of 2001 05:50:38 <CygBot> > 01:39:18 <AaronSw> He could write the back-of-book blurbs all by himself! 05:50:38 <CygBot> > 01:39:30 <sbp> is my site reviewed? 05:50:38 <CygBot> > 01:39:57 <AaronSw> I think you'd fall into "HTML Minimalism" 05:50:38 <CygBot> > 22:01:39 <Morbus> ciao. 05:50:38 <CygBot> > [end] 05:50:58 <sbp> Heh: HTML Minimalism. I remember that 05:51:13 <thc> I've always wondered where the word wiki- came from. 05:51:26 <sbp> It's Hawaiian for "quick" 05:51:33 <AaronSw> wikiwiki, actually 05:51:40 <thc> Ah wikiwiki 05:51:42 <thc> OK 05:51:48 <sbp> WikiWiki means "very quick" 05:51:56 <sbp> I think. Dunno 05:52:07 <tav> rofl! 05:52:08 <tav> -- 05:52:09 <tav> It's official. Tav is a genius! Read this, and tell me if this guy shouldn't be part of the Radio team? Dave, are you listening? Hire this guy. He knows how to make your products even greater than they are. 05:52:09 <sbp> .google Hawaiian quick Wiki 05:52:10 <tav> -- 05:52:10 <xena> Hawaiian quick Wiki: http://www.leuf.net/zhurnal/zw?WikiWikiWeb 05:52:19 <sbp> lol! 05:52:20 <AaronSw> tav, hwo said that? 05:52:23 <sbp> where's that from? 05:52:31 <tav> some phil ackley guy 05:52:36 <tav> http://radio.weblogs.com/0100165 05:52:42 <sbp> You were right, Aaron: "Wikiwiki" means "quick" in Hawaiian. 05:52:47 <AaronSw> Cool. 05:52:52 <tav> sbp: you no know that? 05:52:54 <tav> foo! 05:53:00 <tav> .google wiki 05:53:01 <xena> wiki: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki 05:53:06 <AaronSw> he thought it meant "very quick" 05:53:12 <tav> ^ go read every page there! 05:53:22 <AaronSw> Heh, he's read them all twice -- that's why he forgot. 05:53:58 <hazmat> hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 05:54:29 <AaronSw> heh, i've been wanting the "who's talking about me?" thing on advogato 05:54:31 <AaronSw> Charlie Goodier has been reading our logs. 05:54:39 <AaronSw> He says the secure voting thing should go into the Plex. 05:54:49 <AaronSw> Along with Ebay 2.0. 05:55:03 <sbp> Charlie? Where? 05:55:09 <AaronSw> via email 05:55:11 <sbp> .google "Charlie Goodier" Plex 05:55:12 <sbp> oh 05:55:13 <xena> no results found. 05:56:02 <AaronSw> ok, now i really must go to sleep. 05:56:06 <AaronSw> read my blog if you miss me 05:56:10 <sbp> all I need to be able to do now is check my email my IRC 05:56:14 <sbp> miss you? Heh, heh, heh! 05:56:16 <AaronSw> heh 05:56:18 <sbp> will do 05:56:19 <sbp> c'ya 05:56:23 <AaronSw> and let me know if my server comes. http://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?InquiryNumber1=1Z423E7W4202551871&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&HTMLVersion=4.0&tracknums_displayed=5&sort_by=status&line1=1Z423E7W4202551871%2C303187891862bb0000df8eaacbedaafba7202020%2C%2C303187891862bb0000df8eaacbedaa3948202020%2CI%2C%2C20020114%2C215700%2CCACH%2CIL%2CUS%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C20020114%2CHIGHLAND+PARK%2CIL%2CUS%2CGROUND%2C40.00%2CLBS%2C1%2C20020117%2C%2C%2C+%2Ctdts%2C 05:56:23 <AaronSw> 02020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020202020%2C2020202020202020202020202020202020202020%2C423E7W%2C%2C%2C423E7W%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C&DCRError=0&tdts1.x=7&tdts1.y=15 05:56:28 <AaronSw> now that's a URL! 05:56:37 <AaronSw> nite 05:57:06 <thc> :) 05:57:23 <sbp> heh, heh: """The last time I tracked a UPS package, I reloaded the tracking page and found that it had been delivered. Somewhat surprised, I went downstairs and opened the door and there it was!""" 05:57:51 <sbp> - http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/, Aaron Swartz: Secret Agent 05:58:04 <sbp> Hmm... if I could just check my mail now via. IRC, I'd be set 05:58:10 <sbp> ah, I could do it via. Python 05:58:22 <thc> :o) 05:58:25 <AaronSw> just put it on the web and use cygbot and lynx 05:58:33 <sbp> Heh! 05:58:34 <AaronSw> oops, i'm supposed to be sleeping 05:58:38 <sbp> yeah. Pff 05:58:50 <sbp> Go count some sheep 05:58:53 <sbp> imaginary sheep 05:58:53 <AaronSw> i need to get aimbot running on OPN 05:59:03 <sbp> aimbot? That'd be funny 05:59:13 <AaronSw> err, i guess it's IMBot. 05:59:15 <AaronSw> it's cool 05:59:27 <sbp> I don't hear counting of sheep 05:59:35 <AaronSw> * AaronSw vanishes under the covers 06:00:53 <thc> $ date 06:01:19 <thc> .time 06:01:20 <xena> 2002/01/16 06:02:58.379 Universal 06:01:42 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m12-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 06:02:00 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m12-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:02:05 <thc> xena should not quote so many significant figures in her time reports. 06:02:22 <sbp> That's the best bit! 06:02:37 <thc> it's bound to be somewhat inaccurate. 06:02:42 <thc> :D 06:02:55 <sbp> * sbp considers creating a weblog, possibly a R8 weblog, but then figures that it'd be too mad, too scary, too out-there. Oh, alright: I'm too lazy. There, are you happy? 06:03:12 <sbp> inaccurate: they should set it using NTP 06:03:13 <thc> R8? 06:03:18 <sbp> Radio 8 06:03:32 <thc> .acronym NTP 06:03:34 <xena> NTP: National Tasking Plan, National Toxicity Program, National Toxicology Program, Naval Tactical Publication, Naval Telecommunications Procedure, Naval Threat Product, Naval Training Program, Navy Technological Projection, Navy Technology Projections, Navy Training Plan, Network Termination Point, Network Time Protocol, Network Topology Processor, None Too Pretty, Nontobacco Premium 06:03:35 <xena> (insurance), Normal Temperature & Pressure, Nortriptyline (tranquilizer and tricyclic antidepressant), Notice To Proceed, Nucleotide Triphosphate 06:03:42 <thc> whoo popular one 06:03:43 <sbp> Network Time Protocol 06:03:48 <thc> ok :) 06:04:17 <sbp> It's incredible how people stay up so late on here 06:04:21 <thc> I should figure this stuff out soon 06:04:26 <thc> yes, I blame you 06:04:34 <thc> well this channel 06:04:40 <sbp> fine, go ahead, blame me, everyone else does 06:04:50 <sbp> never blame #swhack! how dare you?! 06:04:51 <thc> mostly CygBot's fault 06:04:53 <sbp> :-) 06:04:55 <sbp> yeah 06:05:03 <thc> $who am i 06:05:06 <thc> muhahaha 06:05:18 <thc> erm space required 06:05:24 <thc> $ who am i 06:05:25 <sbp> it's not up: that's a GHOST 06:05:31 <sbp> $ ls 06:05:31 <thc> Oh 06:05:35 <sbp> $ rm * 06:05:39 <thc> :) 06:05:39 <sbp> $ pwd 06:05:41 <sbp> :-) 06:05:54 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m12-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 06:06:00 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m12-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:06:02 <sbp> $ echo "I keep people awake" 06:06:03 <CygBot> > I keep people awake 06:06:03 <CygBot> > [end] 06:06:10 <thc> $ who am i 06:06:12 <thc> muhahaha 06:06:15 <CygBot> > [end] 06:06:19 <thc> *cough* 06:06:53 <thc> .acronym thc 06:06:54 <xena> thc: Tetrahydrocannabinol (psychoactive compound in marijuana), Target Heading Change, Target Homing Correlator, Temperature and Humidity Control, Terminal Handling Charge, Texas Hemp Campaign, Texas Historical Commission (aka Texas SHPO), The Happy Chemical, Thunder Hill Crew, Total Hydrocarbon, Trace Heating Control, Tsinghua Class of Changsha First Middle School, Hunan, PR China 06:07:14 <thc> the happy chamical 06:07:27 <thc> s/chamical/chemical 06:08:13 <thc> *yawn* :-) 06:08:23 <thc> .google Tsinghua Class of Changsha 06:08:25 <xena> Tsinghua Class of Changsha: http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~zhangwg/album.htm 06:09:26 <thc> .acronym pc 06:09:28 <xena> pc: Personal Computer, Piece, Politically Correct, Post Cibum (Latin: After Meals), Professional Corporation (business legal entity), (USN Rating) Postal Clerk, Coastal Patrol (Ship, US Navy), La Presse Canadienne (Canadian Press News Service), Pacific Coast Railroad, Pacing Count, Package Coordinator, Panama Canal, Panama City (Florida), Paper Change, Paper Clip, Para-Commander (type of 06:09:28 <xena> parachute), Pareto Chart, Parsec (astronomical unit of distance), Parti Communiste (French Communist Party), Passport Control (checkpoints in the EcoChallenge race) 06:09:57 <thc> *hmm* must limit output 06:10:11 <sbp> xena basically gets to do what she wants 06:10:22 <sbp> .don't you, xena? 06:10:49 <sbp> but when I bring a bot in - oh no! can't do that. Must limit all output length 06:10:56 <sbp> *sigh* 06:11:11 <thc> :) 06:11:20 <sbp> Oh well. CygBot proves my mighty bot programming capabilities! Well, perhaps not... 06:11:30 <thc> I meant xena must be limiting her output since pa*c* wasn't completed 06:12:09 <thc> if that makes any sense... 06:12:15 <sbp> Nope, none whatsoever 06:12:18 <sbp> Do you program? 06:12:43 <thc> not enough to write something genuinely useful 06:12:58 <sbp> I didn't either until I found Python - http://www.python.org/ 06:13:03 <thc> yes 06:13:09 <thc> I've wondered about python 06:13:24 <sbp> CygBot is written in Python, of course 06:13:29 <sbp> just a few lines of code 06:13:30 <thc> it always seemed perl was the popular one 06:13:36 <sbp> $ wc coolbot.py 06:13:37 <CygBot> > 351 1220 11348 coolbot.py 06:13:37 <CygBot> > [end] 06:13:46 <sbp> and most of that is stuff that I didn't even write 06:14:18 <sbp> $ wc bitiwrote.txt 06:14:19 <CygBot> > 80 332 3442 bitiwrote.txt 06:14:19 <CygBot> > [end] 06:14:21 <thc> borrowed functions? 06:14:32 <thc> I see 06:14:35 <sbp> Yep. I used DanC's ASync IRC bot 06:14:41 <thc> Ahh 06:14:43 <sbp> the bit I wrote is only 80 lines long 06:14:49 <thc> I saw 06:14:51 <thc> yes 06:14:58 <sbp> .google Connolly site:w3.org Async IRC 06:14:59 <xena> no results found. 06:15:02 <sbp> Blargh 06:15:11 <thc> ESR recommends python as a first or second language 06:15:14 <sbp> $ rm bitiwrote.txt 06:15:15 <CygBot> > [end] 06:15:16 <thc> I believe. 06:15:20 <tav> .google asynirc 06:15:21 <xena> no results found. 06:15:26 <sbp> yep. It's rather good 06:15:26 <tav> .google asyncirc 06:15:28 <xena> no results found. 06:15:30 <tav> hmz 06:15:30 <sbp> * sbp searches through CVS 06:15:41 <tav> .google asyncore irc 06:15:43 <xena> asyncore irc: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/scribe-bot/ircAsync.py?annotate=1.1&sortby=file 06:15:50 <sbp> nice one, tav 06:16:05 <sbp> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2000/scribe-bot/ircAsync.py?rev=1.8&content-type=text/plain 06:16:32 <sbp> 1.8 is the version that CygBot is built on top of 06:16:45 <sbp> really, I should have ircAsync.py as a separate file... oh well 06:18:30 <tomc> tomc (lambda@modem-4332.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 06:18:44 <sbp> $ lynx http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2000/scribe-bot/ircAsync.py?rev=1.8&content-type=text/plain -dump > ircAsync.py 06:18:46 <CygBot> > content-type=text/plain: not found 06:18:46 <CygBot> > )07[?47h[?1h=Getting http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2000/scribe-bot/ircAsync.py?rev=1. 06:18:46 <CygBot> > 06:18:46 <CygBot> > [?47l8 06:18:59 <thc> thc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:19:00 <sbp> ugh 06:19:09 <sbp> 8$ cat ircAsync.py 06:19:10 <CygBot> > cat: ircAsync.py: No such file or directory 06:19:11 <CygBot> > [end] 06:19:24 <tomc> what exactly are yuo doing? 06:19:35 <sbp> trying to save the damn thing 06:19:42 <tomc> ah 06:20:00 <tomc> tomc is now known as thc 06:20:23 <sbp> $ wc ircAsync.py 06:20:24 <CygBot> > 276 895 8097 ircAsync.py 06:20:25 <CygBot> > [end] 06:21:10 <thc> whatis ircAsync.py 06:22:19 <thc> Oh 06:22:29 <sbp> yep 06:23:13 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:23:34 <hazmat> hi folks 06:23:40 <sbp> Hi there 06:24:02 <hazmat> anything exciting happening in the land of sw hackers. 06:25:00 <sbp> $ wc ircAsync.py 06:25:07 <sbp> argh 06:25:12 <sbp> just a bit of bot-play 06:25:13 <thc> heh 06:26:00 <hazmat> thc: esr, also recommends lisp for enlightenment. 06:26:01 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m12-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:26:06 <sbp> $ wc ircAsync.py 06:26:08 <CygBot> > 273 882 7903 ircAsync.py 06:26:08 <CygBot> > [end] 06:26:13 <sbp> $ wc CygBot.py 06:26:15 <CygBot> > 160 575 5409 CygBot.py 06:26:15 <CygBot> > [end] 06:26:23 <thc> I have touched lisp a little already 06:26:24 <sbp> There, I split it into two files 06:26:38 <sbp> * sbp read a LISP tutorial the other day 06:26:42 <hazmat> is ircAsync built around asyncore or just a custom select? 06:26:55 <sbp> import asyncore, asynchat 06:27:09 <sbp> it subclasses asynchat.async_chat 06:27:14 <hazmat> i'd like to pick up haskell 06:28:05 <hazmat> you guys interested in seeing some demos? 06:28:15 <sbp> sure 06:29:03 <hazmat> lucene indexing comp.lang.python http://66.123.57.58:12080/test/comppython/ 06:30:04 <sbp> ugh, make it use GET! 06:31:45 <sbp> ooh, it's neat, though 06:32:31 <hazmat> i'll change it to get, its mainly just a demo for a client, that wants to pipe results into vrml. 06:33:20 <sbp> lol @ "Is learning Python "extraordinary"?" 06:33:31 <sbp> fair enough 06:33:45 <sbp> it is good, I'll give you that :-) 06:36:09 <hazmat> wow marcelo tosatti is 18 years old... 06:38:39 <sbp> Gotta run 06:38:43 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:39:07 <thc> leaving? 06:40:03 <tav> .weather 55108 06:40:06 <xena> several possible locations found: Saint Paul (United States), Saint Paul Island Meteorological Aeronautical Presentation System (Canada) 06:40:22 <tav> .weather saint paul, united states 06:40:25 <xena> [ Saint Paul, United States ] : light rain; mist | temperature 0° C | humidity 86% | dewpoint -1° C | wind 90 | visibility 2 mile(s) | pressure 996 millibars | conditions overcast 06:58:36 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:20:10 <thc> thc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:21:17 <xena> xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 07:22:02 <xena> xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 07:23:11 <hazmat> hazmat has left #swhack 10:00:23 <tansaku2> tansaku2 (~sam@h132-118.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:02:02 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:02:09 <tansaku2> tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 13:18:33 <BenSw``> BenSw`` (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 13:25:20 <BenSw``> Hello 13:26:04 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:29:21 <AaronSw> Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a 13:29:21 <AaronSw> Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with 13:29:22 <AaronSw> truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam. 13:29:34 <AaronSw> Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam. 13:29:56 <BenSw``> (in backround) SPAM SPAM SPAM 13:32:50 <AaronSw> it's much too early for this 13:33:47 <BenSw``> But I dont like spam 13:34:06 <AaronSw> Well, why don't you have eggs, spam, sausage and spam? 13:34:26 <BenSw``> can I have that with out the spam 13:34:32 <AaronSw> Urrrgh! 13:35:22 <BenSw``> Well it doesn't have as much spam as egg spam spam spam sausage, fried eggs spam spam spam 13:35:24 <BenSw``> (in backround) SPAM SPAM SPAM 13:35:28 <BenSw``> ShutUp!! 13:35:29 <BenSw``> ShutUp!! 13:43:04 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 13:44:25 <BenSw``> wb tansaku 13:45:51 <AaronSw> and i'm off 13:46:17 <BenSw``> bye bye Aaron 14:09:01 <tansaku> wb? 14:09:08 <tansaku> ah, welcome back 14:09:17 <tansaku> I'm clearly not spending enough time on irc 14:27:21 <BenSw``> BenSw`` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:40:31 <tansaku> tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:57:27 <BenSw``> BenSw`` (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 15:57:33 <BenSw``> Hello 16:39:03 <thc> thc (lambda@modem-2130.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 16:47:26 <deus_x> deus_x (~deus_x@adsl-65-42-33-202.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net) has joined #swhack 16:57:13 <BenSw``> BenSw`` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:01:28 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m233-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:01:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m233-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:03:55 <sbp> lol! Aaron and Ben did the Spam sketch! 17:03:55 <thc> thc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:04:41 <tansaku> tansaku (~sam@n145-084.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:14:48 <sbp> heh, heh: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020116/od/scales_dc_1.html 17:14:51 <sbp> via. #ia 17:20:16 <thc> thc (lambda@modem-3244.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 17:23:56 <sbp> HI thc 17:24:00 <sbp> s/HI/Hi/ 17:24:15 <thc> hello 17:24:35 <thc> enjoying life? 17:44:07 <BenSw``> BenSw`` (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:44:18 <BenSw``> hello 17:44:32 <BenSw``> * BenSw`` watches simpsons 17:45:08 <BenSw``> Im on Hallowen special VII 17:48:12 <AaronSw> They make you go bluerhuguiher! 17:50:39 <AaronSw> sbp, Morbus tell you about this? http://www.computerbytesman.com/privacy/pythondirdemo.htm 18:03:20 <BenSw``> BenSw`` is now known as BenSw|watchingsimpsons 18:05:18 <AaronSw> The Evil Geniuses Transport Protocol: If it's written by Evil Geniuses it must be good. 18:06:19 <AaronSw> I'm glad somebody told me about this: http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~pfh/circle/ 18:17:48 <AaronSw> Oooh! http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1763000/1763836.stm 18:23:17 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:23:43 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m233-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:29:39 <sbp> * sbp returns 18:29:45 <sbp> <thc> enjoying life? 18:29:47 <sbp> yeah, thanks 18:29:52 <AaronSw> Ooh, Dave Winer pointed to "Tav"! 18:30:01 <sbp> * sbp looks at http://www.computerbytesman.com/python/pythondirdemo.htm 18:30:08 <sbp> scripting.com? 18:30:11 <AaronSw> yeah 18:30:51 <sbp> oh wow, that Dir demo is neat 18:31:04 <AaronSw> Heh, it works on your machine? 18:31:09 <sbp> Yep 18:31:34 <AaronSw> man... i've been trying to hack your computer for so long and the answer was right under my nose! 18:31:55 <sbp> Heh, heh 18:32:03 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:32:17 <AaronSw> heh: http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/01/16#l960481d83f9d686131bbbc781c2d6ff4 18:33:00 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m233-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:39:58 <sbp> Blargh, Microsoft Works exports really inconsistent tab-delimited records. My RegExp had more conditions in it than a hair salon 18:40:08 <sbp> Oh wait - that's *conditioners* 18:41:30 <AaronSw> lol 18:42:14 <AaronSw> David McCusker reveals more: 18:42:14 <AaronSw> """ 18:42:15 <AaronSw> Sometimes families don't amount to much. Ours certainly didn't. 18:42:15 <AaronSw> Mine decided I could fend for myself at an early age, and so I did. 18:42:15 <AaronSw> I probably deserved it, since I was an asshole. (Maybe I still am.) 18:42:16 <AaronSw> However, I bristle at the idea that maybe I owe someone something. 18:42:17 <AaronSw> I put myself through school without support, starving on the way. 18:42:19 <AaronSw> """ - http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#14jan02-loving 18:42:52 <sbp> Poor David McCusker. 18:44:01 <sbp> Or "D McC" as I'm thinking of calling him. 18:44:01 <thc> thc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:44:03 <sbp> "David McCusker" is almost as long as "William Loughborough". 18:44:39 <AaronSw> He calls himself Ged or DMc it seems. 18:44:49 <AaronSw> neato: http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/WLAN/Locust/locust.htm 18:46:25 <sbp> Wow: wonderfully weird 18:47:33 <AaronSw> even weirder: http://www.lilbill.net/ [via Boing Boing] 18:55:44 <AaronSw> lol. Rael imitating a user of speech recognition software in the cubicle next door: "Open this." "Save that." "Deer... No, Dear... No, not Beer... Bloody hell... NO... Erase, erase..."' 18:55:48 <AaronSw> - http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/01/15/edlist.html 18:56:42 <tav> hmz 18:56:46 <tav> you don't read #plex ? 18:56:54 <tav> i put it in #plex earlier 18:56:57 <AaronSw> I did for a while but no one said anything. 18:57:16 <AaronSw> Rael is a great storyteller. Especially in person. 18:57:19 <sbp> Gotta run 18:57:29 <AaronSw> $ u simpsons 18:57:30 <AaronSw> .time 18:57:31 <xena> 2002/01/16 18:59:09.14622 Universal 18:57:41 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:57:44 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:59:57 <tav> well, i'm waiting for a reply from paul 19:03:21 <AaronSw> tav, you should set up radio-xena that reads every weblog and greps for tav, aaron or plex 19:04:14 <tav> actually, i'm creating a notify product for maur, that should be pretty easy to extend into that 19:05:06 <tav> do you think winer would take it bafly if i created a radio-killer? 19:05:13 <tav> ^badly 19:05:24 <AaronSw> no, he's big about competition 19:05:39 <AaronSw> he likes it a lot, because it validates what he does. 19:05:50 <AaronSw> number four referer: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=who%20discovered%20the%20radio&spell=1 19:06:32 <AaronSw> wow, i'm number two for that. 19:06:35 <tav> swica 19:06:53 <AaronSw> eh? 19:07:01 <tav> and here i was thinking it was tesla 19:07:22 <AaronSw> i thought it was marconi 19:07:30 <tav> no, tesla 19:07:41 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> Hi tav 19:07:47 <AaronSw> .google tesla radio invent 19:07:48 <xena> tesla radio invent: http://www.apc.net/bturner/tesla.htm 19:07:55 <AaronSw> .google marconi radio invent 19:07:56 <xena> marconi radio invent: http://www.invent.org/book/book-text/71.html 19:08:05 <tav> marconi just used his british backed financers to reverse patents on poor tesla 19:09:12 <AaronSw> "Sorry, your query could not be answered because the Plex is not currently in service." 19:09:34 <tav> ? heh 19:09:58 <AaronSw> anyone know if there's a dtop, that's like top or ntop except tells me who's hitting the disk? 19:10:14 <tav> deltab query 19:10:25 <AaronSw> i get sort of freaked out at the grinding noises. 19:10:56 <AaronSw> .google ntop 19:10:57 <xena> ntop: http://www.ntop.org 19:11:14 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> hello tav 19:13:36 <AaronSw> think different: http://www.ntop.org/makelove.gif 19:21:23 <acc> acc (~acc@h48n1fls20o1070.telia.com) has joined #swhack 19:25:27 <AaronSw> Whee! It's really snowing this time. 19:25:38 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Winter wonderland has finally arrived. 19:27:54 <acc> acc has left #swhack 20:26:23 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m761-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:27:16 <sbp> could someone put the plex-dev archives up? http://lists.plexdev.org/pipermail/plex-talk/ 20:27:26 <sbp> .http://lists.plexdev.org/pipermail/plex-talk/ 20:27:27 <xena> 404 Not Found Not Found The requested URL /pipermail/plex-talk/ was not found on this server. Apache/1.3.22 Server at lists.blazingfast.net Port 80 20:28:19 <sbp> blargh, I should paste this into #plex 20:33:33 <AaronSw> [and he does] 20:43:05 <AaronSw> <xena> <sbp@opn> You should set up a FOAS list 20:43:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> i did, it's called logicerror.com 20:43:06 <AaronSw> <xena> <sbp@opn> Pff, I still wouldn't make the grade - you'd leave me off just to spite me 20:43:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> heh 20:43:06 <AaronSw> <xena> <sbp@opn> what@logicerror.com? 20:43:06 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> no, it's just a website for now 20:43:08 <AaronSw> *** jilll has left the channel 20:43:10 <AaronSw> <AaronSw> might add email notifications someday 20:43:12 <AaronSw> <xena> <sbp@opn> Ah. That's not quite a mailing list then 20:43:15 <sbp> you missed the best bit:- 20:43:17 <sbp> <sbp> Pff, I'm not on either of the FOXX lists 20:43:17 <sbp> <xena> <AaronSw@esp> FOXX? 20:43:17 <sbp> <sbp> Friends Of XX 20:43:29 <AaronSw> * AaronSw was thinking simpsons pr0n for a sec... 20:43:36 <sbp> Heh, heh 20:43:39 <AaronSw> that'd be FOXXX 20:43:45 <sbp> Heh, yeah 20:44:07 <AaronSw> who said it needed to be a mailing list? 20:44:24 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> BenSw|watchingsimpsons has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:44:34 <AaronSw> [we've done more damage] 20:44:37 <sbp> No one, but that seems to be convention 20:44:55 <AaronSw> well i wanted to show how much cooler the web can be than a mailing list 20:45:04 <sbp> it's not much of a FO area if your F's can't contribute 20:45:11 <sbp> damage: heh 20:45:42 <AaronSw> sure they can using the (not-yet-implemented) comments feature 20:45:49 <AaronSw> then i choose the best comments and add them to the page 20:45:53 <AaronSw> same thing with incoming links 20:46:03 <AaronSw> I planned a ton of blogspace features... 20:46:13 <AaronSw> <sigh /> if only someone else would build it for me 20:46:13 <sbp> Blargh@ NYI 20:46:21 <AaronSw> want to implement it for me? 20:46:39 <sbp> Have you ported it to Python yet? No, of course you haven't 20:46:45 <AaronSw> no wait, don't you dare implement it! go work on your screwly little browser.py 20:46:50 <AaronSw> [reverse psychology] 20:47:03 <sbp> Yeah! browser.py is absolutely state-of-the-art. O.K., I will 20:47:20 <sbp> brb 20:47:45 <AaronSw> heh 20:52:19 <sbp> * sbp tries to import/export address book entries into Outlook, but the damn file formats are incompatible... argh! 20:53:38 <AaronSw> Outlook<-->??? 20:54:32 <sbp> Microsoft Works => Outlook => Outlook, via. various weird hacks 20:54:44 <AaronSw> Why Outlook to Outlook? 20:54:51 <sbp> Don't ask :-) 20:54:58 <AaronSw> too late 20:55:07 <sbp> Heh, heh 20:55:29 <sbp> Outlook on two different computers 20:56:50 <AaronSw> lol! http://nat.org/camera/dsc03697-336x252-border.jpg 20:57:49 <sbp> Aha! I did it. I had to export to VCard, but it worked 20:59:18 <sbp> Microsoft Works => Tab separated =Python RegExp=> CSV => Outlook WAB => VCard => Outlook WAB 20:59:48 <sbp> Man, that was wacky 21:00:22 <AaronSw> Heh. gnat: "My hobbies include reading, collecting shellfish from the bay where I grew up, pornography, recreational drugs, and piracy. My favourite authors include Douglas Adams, Terry Pratchett, and P.J. O'Rourke. Yes, admitting to liking Terry Pratchett carries the same stigma as being a 14-year-old spotty boy named Nigel with no friends and a silly laugh, but I do not fear your taunts." 21:01:07 <sbp> Heh, where's that from? 21:01:13 <AaronSw> - http://www.frii.com/~gnat/ 21:01:20 <AaronSw> gnat is an official W3 Person, BTW. 21:01:36 <sbp> He loves Perl? 21:01:40 <sbp> W3 Person? 21:02:14 <sbp> And he plays the banjo. A banjo playing Perl programmer - he must be great at parties 21:02:16 <AaronSw> yeah, he's on timbl's old list 21:02:23 <sbp> cool 21:02:36 <AaronSw> here's his marriage pics: http://www.funhouse.com/vegas/ 21:03:28 <sbp> * sbp notes that his comment about banjo playing Perl programmers was in jest, especially as I'm learning Perl, and would quite like to learn a bit of banjo playing, although it couldn't tear me away from the guitar 21:03:35 <sbp> there are only about 3 decent songs in the world that have a banjo on them 21:03:43 <AaronSw> you're learning Perl?! 21:03:59 <sbp> well, I read a tutorial, and I can do a bit 21:04:33 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m761-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:05:02 <AaronSw> that's it! our relationship is OVER! 21:05:28 <sbp> Mwahahahaha! Did it ever start? 21:05:37 <sbp> Ooh, that reminds me of a Peanuts strip 21:06:33 <sbp> 8$ cat CygBot.py 21:06:34 <AaronSw> please return all emails from me, unopened 21:06:36 <CygBot> > import socket 21:06:39 <CygBot> > import asyncore, asynchat, urllib, time 21:06:39 <CygBot> > 21:06:41 <CygBot> > MyChannel = '#swhack' 21:06:41 <CygBot> > Port = 6667 21:06:41 <CygBot> > 21:06:44 <CygBot> > SPC="\x20" 21:06:44 <CygBot> > [...] 21:06:59 <AaronSw> hmm 21:07:01 <AaronSw> awesome: awesome: http://snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/images/peanuts20024374420116.gif 21:07:02 <sbp> can I return emails without reading them? anyway, you should have a copy in your sent folder 21:07:31 <AaronSw> you mean you've been tresspassing on my computer?! 21:07:39 <sbp> perhaps 21:07:46 <sbp> what are you gonna do about it, eh? 21:07:58 <sbp> * sbp catches up on snoopy.com 21:08:31 <AaronSw> Heh: "Write to me in care of the tower of london!" http://snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/images/peanuts20365615020115.gif 21:09:11 <sbp> Heh, just read that one 21:11:03 <sbp> Heh, Snoopy has many occupations/hobbies 21:11:14 <AaronSw> Dave Winer: "Welcome to the third installment of Going Crazy with Macros, the only tutorial service on the Internet that helps you lose your mind. Today we are going to invent a new Web Service called The XML Coffee Cup. Now if that isn't sheer lunacy, tell me what is!" 21:13:12 <AaronSw> - http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/01/16#l2dda180429520a08d4b32d16c3f32cdf 21:13:41 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> BenSw|watchingsimpsons (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 21:14:24 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> Hello 21:21:49 <sbp> * sbp listens to SIBLY (live version) 21:21:53 <sbp> Hi there Ben 21:22:12 <sbp> I loved your "Spam, spam, spam" rendition this morning 21:22:50 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> Oh no someone actually reads the logs 21:25:35 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m98-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:25:52 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m98-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:26:29 <AaronSw> Heh. 21:26:34 <AaronSw> That was fun. 21:27:09 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> What? 21:28:25 <AaronSw> Dave Winer: "I already admit to being funny farm material." 21:30:08 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m98-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:30:15 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m98-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:31:20 <AaronSw> lol: http://www.thebrainstrust.co.uk/pretzel.php 21:32:41 <sbp> heh, heh 21:32:54 <sbp> Good advice 21:43:41 <sbpcannotconnectandisfuckedfor> sbpcannotconnectandisfuckedfor (~sbp@m18-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:43:43 <CygBot> CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:43:57 <sbpcannotconnectandisfuckedfor> sbpcannotconnectandisfuckedfor has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:44:15 <forsomereasonThisisCygBot> forsomereasonThisisCygBot (~sbp@m18-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:44:36 <forsomereasonThisisCygBot> forsomereasonThisisCygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:44:39 <communicationByNickIsQuiteFunn> communicationByNickIsQuiteFunn (~sbp@m18-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:44:53 <communicationByNickIsQuiteFunn> communicationByNickIsQuiteFunn has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:44:54 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as youHaveGoneInsaneSBP 21:45:01 <youHaveGoneInsaneSBP> youHaveGoneInsaneSBP is now known as AaronSw 21:45:06 <ArghIllReboot> ArghIllReboot (~sbp@m18-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:45:12 <ArghIllReboot> ArghIllReboot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:49:32 <StillNoJoy> StillNoJoy (~sbp@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:49:43 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as whatsWrong 21:49:46 <whatsWrong> ? 21:49:49 <deus_x> O_o 21:49:58 <StillNoJoy> StillNoJoy has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:50:04 <whatsWrong> whatsWrong is now known as AaronSw 21:50:12 <IRCandHTTPisBroken> IRCandHTTPisBroken (~sbp@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:50:23 <IRCandHTTPisBroken> IRCandHTTPisBroken has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:50:35 <ButCygBotWorks> ButCygBotWorks (~sbp@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:51:01 <ButCygBotWorks> ButCygBotWorks has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:52:16 <SeanP> SeanP (~Palmer@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:52:25 <SeanP> * SeanP is using irc on CygWin 21:52:34 <SeanP> For some reason, mIRC and IE have folded 21:52:48 <SeanP> IRC won't connect at all, and IE refuses to load Googl 21:52:50 <SeanP> Google 21:53:04 <SeanP> however, blogspace.com works, and so does IRC through CygWin 21:53:40 <SeanP> mIRC gives:  21:53:49 <SeanP> argh, can't paste into this fecking thing 21:53:56 <SeanP> help? 21:54:54 <blargh> blargh (~sean@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:54:54 <blargh> blargh has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:55:11 <SeanP> Hmm... that was mIRC, but nothing worked 21:55:30 <AaronSw> heh 21:55:45 <SeanP> Argh, and now Frasier's on. I'll shut the computer off and try again in an hour 21:55:50 <AaronSw> heh! 21:55:51 <SeanP> this is bizarre 21:55:55 <AaronSw> yeah, really 21:56:04 <AaronSw> perhaps it's a frasier-reminder 21:56:06 <sbp> sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: blargh!~sean@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:56:11 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m11-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:56:29 <sbp> Hooray! 21:56:31 <sbp> Right, gotta run. Man, that was really weird 21:56:51 <AaronSw> c'ya 21:56:56 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> c'ya 22:16:08 <SeanP> SeanP has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:16:36 <AaronSw> * AaronSw wanders off to have a snowball fight. 22:16:39 <AaronSw> snow! snow! it's awesome 22:18:10 <sbp> sbp has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 22:30:04 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m954-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:30:16 <CygBot> CygBot (~sbp@m954-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:30:56 <sbp> snow? great! 22:31:35 <sbp> * sbp is back on mIRC, has no idea what happened before 22:36:33 <thc> thc (lambda@modem-2048.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 22:37:35 <sbp> Hi thc 22:38:24 <thc> hello (again) 22:38:34 <sbp> Wow, Bert Jansch was only 19 when he recorded his first album 22:40:28 <thc> I feel I should know of him 22:41:37 <sbp> Heh, heh, stereotypeorama: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1754000/1754818.stm 22:41:48 <sbp> Bert Jansch: excellet folk guitarist 22:41:56 <sbp> s/excellet/excellent/ 22:42:11 <thc> yes, I just glanced at a brief biography 22:42:16 <sbp> """"A lot of women want permission to buy the cute version of something," said Ms France.""" 22:42:40 <sbp> @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1754000/1754818.stm 22:42:52 <chumpster> B: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1754000/1754818.stm from sbp 22:42:56 <sbp> B:|Gadget makers target women 22:42:58 <chumpster> titled item B 22:43:35 <sbp> B::Shield your sensibilities, it's stereoptype time. 22:43:37 <chumpster> chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 22:43:49 <sbp> oh, you big pile-o'-crap 22:44:08 <chumpster> chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 22:44:56 <sbp> ooh, I think it's broken 22:45:02 <sbp> someone borked it! 22:45:05 <sbp> B:: 22:45:27 <sbp> sbp has changed the topic to: Someone borked the Weblog! 22:45:43 <sbp> .http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 22:45:44 <xena> Swhack Weblog: Someone borked the Weblog!Swhack WeblogSomeone borked the Weblog! Last update: 2002-01-16 22:45 UTCNearby: RSS/RDF/XML versionArchives: 2001, 2002 posted by AaronSw at 2002-01-16 22:43 (permalink) Swhack? No, we're not here to give j00 c00l crackz. 'Swhack!' is the sound made when you hit someone with a clue-by-four, likely some l33t d00d. This is a weblog run by the Swhack 22:45:45 <xena> Cabal. Who are they? Let's just say There Is No Global RDF Conspiracy. Data: AaronSw, bernstein, blanu, bricklin, chris, danbri, doc, edd and his PANTS, glenn, jorn, kenm's PRTnews, McC, Morbus, rael, rdfig, sbp, tansaku, tav, Uncle Gravy, whump, wmf, Zooko. Metadata: Blogdex, Crit, Social Network (from Blogdex), Google Backlinks, Validator. Aaron Swartz and Sean B. PalmerRun by the Daily Chump bot 22:45:46 <xena> .. a very large amount of text. 22:48:24 <thc> "If it has to do with communication, if it has to do with instant messaging, wireless, anything like that, girls know all about it" 22:48:49 <sbp> Aaron, fix the bot! 22:49:11 <thc> heh 22:49:15 <sbp> my favourite bit: "The minute I hear a word like 'sub-woofer', you've lost me," she said. "I want as little information as possible to make an intelligence purchase." 22:49:33 <sbp> an intelligence purchase? Are you buying for the millitary? 22:50:00 <thc> Oh! My god I didn't notice that 22:50:15 <sbp> It's classy. I wanna chump it! Damn bot 22:50:36 <thc> I must be tired :) 22:50:43 <sbp> * sbp plays Carole King, Up On The Roof 22:57:27 <sbp> * sbp plays some Nina Simone 22:58:49 <sbp> heh: """Sean just called. So I am happy. Yay. No, really, I know that sounded half-assed, but I am. Heh. So today was nice. I'm really getting into that "fuck that like a ... whore", ... being replaced with whatever I feel like.""" - http://www.fuh-q.com/laura/ 22:59:25 <sbp> * sbp plays John Lee Hooker - Hobo Blues 23:00:17 <AaronSw> man, that was fun 23:00:17 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> .htttp://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org/ 23:00:28 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> .htttp://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org/ 23:00:35 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> g 23:01:32 <AaronSw> B:: 23:01:37 <sbp> there's only two t's in HTTP 23:01:50 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> whoops 23:01:52 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> lol 23:01:56 <AaronSw> wow, it's screwed. 23:01:57 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> .http://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org/ 23:01:58 <xena> The Rangers of Dereth - WintersEbb Current News Posted on Wed, January 16th 12:44 PM by ced: Van does it again! Grats to Van on winning the GSA in the recent Scavenger Hunt. A --HUGE-- Thankyou to Ugly Mofo and Alseyn T\'seif for organizing the event. Next Scavenger Hunt Prize will be a Diamond Shield. Posted on Sun, January 13th 12:22 PM by ced: Vanyel Kills Lady Aerfalle!!! The Rangers 23:02:00 <xena> first ever Aerlinthe Quest lead by ourselves. Myself, Elanor and Vanyel managed the whole trip and it was a blast! Posted on Mon, November 26th 7:20 AM by ced: Rescue Squad - Spaces open for players of ALL levels. Contact Hiute in game. He will take your name/Player type and level down. Questions, comments, death threats? - send them to Webmistress Stacy 23:02:15 <sbp> Argh, debork it! 23:02:48 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> Homer: Baby on Board something something something 23:03:10 <AaronSw> BLURB:Web Graffiti? 23:03:13 <chumpster> B: Web Graffiti? from AaronSw 23:03:25 <AaronSw> you can't mess with it when it's broken. 23:03:27 <AaronSw> B::I went to [download QuickTime|http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/] and I found some strange sidebars. 23:03:30 <sbp> Homer: Baby on Board, something, something, Burt Ward 23:03:37 <chumpster> commented item B 23:03:46 <chumpster> chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 23:04:04 <sbp> Argh. You borked it again! 23:04:34 <sbp> * sbp plays Billie Holliday - On The Sunny Side Of The Street 23:04:38 <AaronSw> i did it on purpose this time 23:04:42 <AaronSw> i'm fixing it, you borkers 23:04:43 <sbp> s/Holliday/Holiday/ 23:04:49 <sbp> Heh, heh 23:05:03 <sbp> heh, love it: <!DOCTYPE churn> 23:05:07 <sbp> <churn> 23:05:07 <sbp> <last-updated value="1011222215.833035">2002-01-16 23:03</last-updated> 23:05:07 <sbp> <itemcount value="2" /> 23:05:07 <sbp> <topic>Someone borked the Weblog!</topic> 23:05:07 <sbp> <link type="blurb"> 23:05:08 <sbp> <time value="1011222190.031179">2002-01-16 23:03</time> 23:05:08 <BenSw|watchingsimpsons> * BenSw|watchingsimpsons watches Homers Barbershop quartet 23:05:10 <sbp> <nick>AaronSw</nick> 23:05:12 <sbp> <title>Web Graffiti? 23:05:14 I went to download QuickTime and I found some strange sidebars. 23:05:17 23:05:19 23:05:21 23:05:23 AaronSw 23:05:25 23:05:27 23:05:29 argh 23:05:30 i know what it is now, geez 23:05:31 wow, it didn't kick me for flooding. I'm impressed 23:06:27 anyone know the python time for 2002-01-16 03:12:05? 23:06:47 Wha? 23:06:51 "python time" being something like 1011221034.747875 23:07:10 No idea 23:07:22 .py pythontime('2002-01-16 03:12:05') 23:07:23 NameError: name 'pythontime' is not defined 23:07:31 heh, heh 23:08:24 Bart: you where idiots like the beatles and said that you were bigger than jesus 23:09:21 Number 8 *burp* Number 8 *burp* Number 8 *burp* Number 8 *burp* 23:09:58 heh, that bit kicks-ass 23:11:27 lol the Be-sharps album is like meet the beatles, on the front, and sgt peppers on the back 23:11:41 lol its a copy of the beatles 23:12:17 Have you not seen that one before? 23:12:24 actually no 23:12:36 seen most of them though 23:13:21 .unixtime 23:13:21 1011222921.92 23:13:43 .goggle be sharps 23:14:03 .google be sharps 23:14:04 be sharps: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~fitshop/welcome.html 23:14:16 ach im mispelling today 23:17:43 Ralph:Mrs. Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder 23:18:31 Aaron? Have you fixed the bot? 23:18:36 almost 23:18:46 Cool 23:19:23 and back in Primitive Pattern Land... 23:19:36 .belikesbp 23:19:41 Hmm... I wonder what other uses of the Semantic Web there are? 23:19:44 ok, it's fixed. 23:19:58 chumpster will return in a moment, in a meantime... 23:19:59 thanks 23:20:09 make sure you don't repeat anything: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 23:20:12 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 23:20:26 hmzigly?! 23:20:40 don't repeat anything? 23:20:48 how so? 23:21:02 B:: 23:21:02 blurb 23:21:03 Gadget makers target women 23:21:04 (sbp) Shield your sensibilities, it's stereoptype time. 23:21:08 like that. 23:21:57 .http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 23:21:59 2002-01-16 23:03 Someone borked the Weblog! 2002-01-16 22:42 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1754000/1754818.stm sbp Gadget makers target women Shield your sensibilities, it's stereoptype time. 2002-01-16 03:12 AaronSw Web Graffiti? I went to download QuickTime and I found some strange sidebars. Mac's Rule!, Smiley Face and Macs are cool. 23:22:03 odd 23:22:11 can you please stop that. 23:22:46 get xena to trim responses 23:22:56 to what? 23:23:09 B::"A lot of women want permission to buy the cute version of something," said Ms France." 23:23:10 commented item B 23:23:21 To a length that doesn't make you whinge 23:23:29 that's not possible 23:23:42 nice use of quotes :-) 23:23:44 B::My favourite bit: "The minute I hear a word like 'sub-woofer', you've lost me," she said. "I want as little information as possible to make an intelligence purchase." 23:23:45 commented item B 23:23:55 B::An intelligence purchase? Is she buying for the millitary? 23:23:59 commented item B 23:24:48 I wanted to point out that it's still broken - I get the version 23:24:55 i knew that. 23:25:09 you could have just said, instead of spewing 23:25:19 I like to spew 23:26:11 what's the point of having the .URI function? You may as well can it 23:26:42 it has its uses, you're just an abuser. 23:26:47 i should probably turn it off for you. 23:26:57 it's funny, because when I bring in bots that spew things all over the channel, they get banned 23:27:06 do so 23:27:06 well, you know why? 23:27:21 perhaps I can guess 23:27:30 go on 23:28:31 it's becaus you're a no good stinky smelly potato-spitting, spweing, spanking, frying, fronking, frinking, throwing, banging, breaking, borking, blogging, botanical, breaking, profanic, piece of podsnop! 23:28:47 * AaronSw bows. The curtain falls. 23:29:07 hooray, I've bought the word "borking" into regular circulation 23:29:19 .google borking 23:29:21 borking: http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/12/kennedy-r.html 23:29:44 .acronym atm 23:29:45 atm: Asynchronous Transfer Mode (broadband switching and transmission technology), Automated Teller Machine, Able Toast Master (now Advanced Toastmaster), Abstinence 'Till Marriage, Acetone Toluene Methanol, Addicted To Music, Adobe Type Manager, Advanced TEMPEST Microcomputer, Advanced Test Module, Advanced Testing Mode, Advanced Toastmaster (formerly Able Toastmaster), Advanced Traffic Mapping, 23:29:47 Advanced Trauma Management, Aerosol Trajectory Model, Air Target Materials, Air Targeting Mode (military radar), Air Traffic Management, Air Turbine Motor, Airborne Thematic Mapper, Aircrew Training Manual 23:29:53 WTG @ fronking 23:30:03 .acronym wtg 23:30:05 wtg: Way To Go, Wind Turbine Generator 23:30:52 ATM is usually either "At the moment" or "Automatic telling machine" depending on context 23:30:57 .acronym sw 23:30:59 sw: (USN Rating) Steelworker, Salt Water, Sand Wedge (Golf), Sea Watch/Water, Semantic Web, Server Wallet, Severe Weathering, Shareware, Shipboard Weapon, Short Wave, Short Wave (see HF), Shotgun Wedding, Sidewinder, Signals Warfare, Slepian-Wolf (source network), Small World, Social Worker, Socialist Worker, Socialist Worker's Party (also seen as SWP), Software 23:31:07 WTG == Wind Turbine Generator 23:31:15 deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:31:35 (shocke) no Aaron Swartz 23:31:54 s/shocke/shocked/ 23:32:21 that'd be AS 23:32:23 huh? 23:32:36 for Swartz 23:32:37 Ooh, what's Aaron's middle name? 23:32:42 nm 23:32:43 don't tell him! 23:32:48 nm 23:32:54 Mwahahaha! 23:33:08 I WONT TELL YOU MUAHAHAHAHA 23:33:23 I have no idea why I just said that 23:34:05 * sbp neither, but we have to behave now that Aaron is bearing down on us with his OP 23:34:35 Argh! 23:34:44 they do the dirty work 23:34:52 * BenSw|watchingsimpsons woders why is he oping his bots 23:35:02 * sbp too 23:35:09 danja: you look spookily like David Baddiel 23:35:12 lol 23:35:15 ouch2! 23:35:38 - #rdfig 23:35:48 pic of danja? 23:35:54 its hillel 23:36:04 what is? 23:36:33 oops, wrong channel 23:37:16 that comment deservers this: http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leq9SS0/6r+OjznKfgIqPLiK2XjSMN2zXl517YCu4/rwBtKGR03ERCKDvTLXcmBZwCg= 23:37:17 2nd from left on top row, right? 23:37:25 [...] 23:37:25 for the record : http://www.isacat.net/misc/images/danny1.gif 23:37:57 heh 23:40:16 Hey sbp whats the line about the impsons family? 23:44:32 .google "Impson family" site:snpp.com 23:44:33 "Impson family" site:snpp.com: http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html 23:45:04 $ lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.txt -dump | grep "Impson family" -A 2 23:45:21 > [end] 23:45:31 Pff 23:45:32 heh 23:45:42 $ lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.html -dump | grep "Impson family" -A 2 23:45:43 $ lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.txt -dump | grep -i "Impson family" -A 2 23:45:54 .txt doesn't exist 23:45:58 pff 23:46:21 > = There was no writing on the mailbox until Homer said "Impson family." 23:46:23 > {mar} 23:46:23 > 23:46:23 > [end] 23:46:25 Command "lynx http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F20.txt -dump | grep -i "Impson family" -A 2" has been disabled 23:46:43 $ lynx http://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org 23:46:46 Hmm... that was a disappointment 23:46:51 Command "lynx http://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org" has been disabled 23:47:19 $ lynx http://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org 23:47:33 BenSw|watchingsimpsons, get a {life, browser} 23:47:51 Homer: Uh oh, looks like a spot of bother for the [leans forwards] "Impson" family 23:48:23 it's funny because he said "spot of bother" 23:48:35 ok, looks like the weblog is fixed 23:50:10 Good 23:50:14 Well done 23:50:38 except that the link doesn't work 23:50:51 hmm 23:51:13 can you fix that, or should I do B::[http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1754000/1754818.stm|blargh] ? 23:51:20 i'll fix it in a sec 23:51:29 O.K. 23:51:49 chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 23:53:12 ah, Homer actually says... 23:53:26 Homer: Heh, heh: looks like bad news for the "Impson" family 23:53:57 Spot of bother was my own idiomatization 23:54:43 Homer: I apologize for misleading you and urge 23:54:46 you to watch as many FOX shows as possible. 23:55:54 Hmm... they had the one where the dog gets ill, and the Bible stories one today 23:55:59 Homer: Down in front! 23:56:02 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 23:56:04 ooh, and 23:56:22 Homer: You don't know your sister's birthday? What kinda brother are you? 23:56:27 B:: 23:56:27 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1754000/1754818.stm 23:56:28 Gadget makers target women 23:56:29 (sbp) Shield your sensibilities, it's stereoptype time. 23:56:30 (sbp) "A lot of women want permission to buy the cute version of something," said Ms France." 23:56:31 (sbp) My favourite bit: "The minute I hear a word like 'sub-woofer', you've lost me," she said. "I want as little information as possible to make an intelligence purchase." 23:56:32 (sbp) An intelligence purchase? Is she buying for the millitary? 23:56:54 Thanks 23:57:09 thc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:57:46 "I'm just a child of nature. I'm one of nature's childeren" 23:57:59 Good song - evolved into Jealous Guy 23:58:22 sbp has changed the topic to: Someone de-borked the Weblog! 2002-01-17.txt0100644000014300000000000012067207421662204011676 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:12 s/childeren/children/ 00:03:19 hmm, i just deleted some large files, but df doesn't show the space i gained 00:03:28 some really large files 00:03:54 one for you Aaron: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2839242,00.html 00:04:04 via. http://www.whiterabbits.com/MacNetJournal/ 00:04:12 log out and back in 00:04:13 did you delete all references to them? are they open? 00:04:25 they were open when i deleted them... 00:04:34 they were log files 00:04:58 if processes still have them open, they're still in use and aren't deleted 00:05:29 hmm, but i killed the process and it still has freed the space 00:06:05 ah, there we go 00:06:31 the fuser command should tell you what processes have a file open 00:06:40 Command "lynx http://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org" has been disabled 00:06:43 $ fuser 00:06:43 bash: fuser: command not found 00:06:57 > fuser: not found 00:06:57 > [end] 00:07:18 $ ls 00:08:49 thanks, deltab 00:09:29 > 0.95-schema.html 00:09:31 > 0.95-sopjgj.n3.text 00:09:31 > 0.95-think.n3 00:09:33 > 0.95.html 00:09:33 > 0.95.n3 00:09:34 > 01-02-b.txt 00:09:35 > [...] 00:10:20 $ cd Windows/Desktop/impsons 00:10:22 thc (lambda@modem-1934.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 00:10:48 ach, must make sbp watch simpsons 00:11:00 Command "cd Windows/Desktop/impsons" has been disabled 00:11:11 wb thc 00:11:18 it wouldn't have worked anyway 00:11:24 $ ls Windows 00:11:26 > ls: Windows: No such file or directory 00:11:26 > [end] 00:11:31 D'oh 00:12:48 wb thc 00:13:11 ty :-) 00:13:41 Aaron:I am going outside ibn the snow 00:14:52 s/ibn/in/ 00:21:41 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m235-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:22:00 sbp (~sean@m235-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:22:12 wb 00:22:34 ty 00:24:07 @ http://infomesh.net/misc 00:24:15 A: http://infomesh.net/misc from sbp 00:24:25 A:|sbp:Miscellaneous 00:24:26 titled item A 00:24:35 A::I scribble stuff here occasionally 00:24:39 commented item A 00:25:42 wb 00:25:53 heh I suffer from slow reactions 00:30:12 heh, thanks 00:32:17 deus_x (~deus_x@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 00:36:40 deus_x has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:39:41 deus_x (~deus_x@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 00:40:24 * sbp downloads R8 00:46:14 CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:46:31 whats R8? 00:46:43 Radio 8 00:46:54 Mmm... Radio 8 00:46:54 c'mon guys! R8! 00:47:03 * sbp has done it already 00:47:10 :) 00:47:33 whats Radio 8?? 00:50:27 http://radio.userland.com/ 00:50:28 radio.userland.ocm 00:50:33 * AaronSw is back 00:50:35 Ohhh 00:56:08 dinner 01:27:34 @ http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ 01:27:40 B: Bring It On Home from sbp 01:28:16 B::Sean B. Palmer's new [http://radio.userland.com/|R8] Weblog 01:28:17 commented item B 01:29:31 B::Witness the wonderment and whimsy for 30 days 01:29:33 commented item B 01:33:55 Heh! 01:34:25 "Purple is a fruit." 01:34:44 you don't have one of those mugs that subscribe people... 01:35:20 B::You must [subscribe today|http://127.0.0.1:5335/system/pages/subscriptions?url=http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/rss.xml] (requires Radio UserLand to be running). 01:35:27 commented item B 01:38:20 BenSw|watchingsimpsons has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:39:29 Mugs? Oh dear. How do I get one of these prized items? 01:39:38 * sbp was away updating the Weblog 01:40:24 * AaronSw links to sbp 01:40:37 Woo! 01:43:43 tav, you should blab about stuff on your blog, then i can point people to it 01:45:42 .google cool hunter deedee gordon 01:45:43 cool hunter deedee gordon: http://www.youthintelligence.com/company/yiarticle.asp?yiArticleId=7 01:45:47 .google cool hunter deedee gordon gladwell 01:45:49 cool hunter deedee gordon gladwell: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/interviews/gladwell.html 01:45:57 .google deedee gordon gladwell 01:45:59 deedee gordon gladwell: http://www.suck.com/daily/97/03/26/3.html 01:46:02 .google deedee gordon site:gladwell.com 01:46:03 deedee gordon site:gladwell.com: http://www.gladwell.com/1997_03_17_a_cool.htm 01:46:20 hmz 01:46:34 B::Ooh, it has quotes from DeeDee Gordon, [famed cool hunter|http://www.gladwell.com/1997_03_17_a_cool.htm]. 01:46:37 commented item B 01:48:47 Whatever :-) 01:49:28 yea, i'm gradually building up to that 02:10:10 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m17-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:10:23 sbp (~sean@m17-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:11:00 tomc (lambda@modem-3747.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 02:18:46 kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 02:18:54 hey kenm 02:18:57 hey 02:19:09 i'm sorry... it was an accident, really! 02:19:12 curious: where's the 'discuss' link on Radio websites? 02:19:20 there isn't one -- they're static 02:19:23 I'm suspecting there ain't one 02:19:39 you're right 02:19:39 radio generates html pages and uploads them 02:20:12 * sbp continues to update http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ 02:20:20 i'm susbscribed via rss 02:20:27 Heh, cool 02:20:37 OH that's a good point - I should check that out 02:22:47 Heh, "Tao of Putting" 02:22:56 :-) 02:23:06 * kenm wonders what a few AppleScripts and Apache could do for a weblog tool 02:23:27 Hmm. 02:23:38 I guess I'll need a weblogging tool after my Radio trial expires. 02:25:14 Heh: Last-modified: urllib2.urlopen('http://infomesh.net/misc').info()['last-modified'] 02:25:18 - http://infomesh.net/misc/ 02:25:51 s%http://infomesh.net/misc/%http://infomesh.net/misc% 02:26:10 @ http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,49343,00.html 02:26:13 C: Kevin Bacon: You've Got Mail from sbp 02:26:31 C::The small world phenomenon tested via. email 02:26:36 commented item C 02:28:01 http://altis.manilasites.com/2002/01/16 02:30:48 thc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:30:52 http://smallworld.sociology.columbia.edu/ 02:31:32 Interesting: http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/ 02:31:36 yeah 02:32:07 Wow, HyperCard is still going: http://www.apple.com/hypercard/ 02:32:08 @ http://smallworld.sociology.columbia.edu/ 02:32:17 D: Smallworld Front Page from AaronSw 02:32:32 D::Testing the "six degrees" theory on a global scale. 02:32:34 commented item D 02:33:18 wow, small computer: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_276000/276762.stm 02:35:04 * sbp goes to http://www.weblogs.com/ finds Swhack right at the top 02:35:09 anyone here know a writer in New York? 02:35:22 and Bring It On Home is right up there, too 02:35:36 Probably because we just updated. 02:45:36 Yep 02:47:11 Heh, I just invented a word 02:50:18 what's that? 02:51:41 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:51:59 sbp (~sean@m28-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:53:46 sbp has changed the topic to: Cordon Blargh 02:56:25 lol! 02:56:26 [[[ 02:56:26 53. Sean B. Palmer 60 02:56:26 54. Aaron Swartz 60 02:56:31 ]]] - http://stats.userland.com/groups/radio1/report.html 02:56:38 heh 02:56:56 ah, you smeg head: 52. Aaron Swartz 61 02:57:32 http://letters.oreilly.com/spoofcovers_1201.html 02:59:16 I particularly like "true: in a nutshell" and "why you can't find your UNIX system administrator" 02:59:39 heh! 03:06:35 why you can't find your UNIX system administrator: 03:06:38 - last night's backup failed 03:06:41 - it's before noon 03:07:26 - draft cv found in paper recycling 03:07:42 - life's too short for monday 03:07:49 - you don't need to find them, they'll find you 03:08:28 too bad you can't enlarge them 03:11:28 yes, I had a hard time reading a few 03:11:56 news on PRT is so dead -- PRTnews is so dead :( 03:13:54 :-( 03:14:23 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m1-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 03:14:43 sbp (~sean@m1-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:15:41 otoh, work on Linux home theatre tools, and multimedia in general, is moving along swimmingly 03:18:10 heh, when I see these meerkats they remind me of Rael: http://www.oreillynet.com/images/rss/meerkat-topleft.jpg 03:22:03 why does it take two days for a package to get from austin to illinois? 03:23:28 interesting: http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/037259.htm 03:23:38 two days: you should have walked there yourself and got it 03:23:48 yeah, really. or gotten wes to do it 03:25:39 That ZDNet guy: "I'd pretty much rather die than build all the buttons and links that FrontPage does for me." 03:25:52 Ok, i can now ignore anything he says. 03:26:06 I'd rather die than use frontpage, he'd rather die than not. 03:27:45 heh 03:28:15 Maybe he's going for controversy. 03:28:27 have you played with the html editor in WebObjects? I love that editor 03:28:42 Hmm, actually I haven't... I've seen others play with it. 03:28:50 does it generate nice html? 03:29:07 yes, very, very clean 03:29:23 XHTML? 03:29:27 yes 03:29:33 ooh 03:29:39 I think it's been updated to XHTML. 03:29:47 it also does *fragments* properly 03:30:06 nice... 03:30:19 Hmm, my folders have disappeared again 03:30:22 .google WebObjects 03:30:54 apple.com/webobjects/ i think 03:31:14 if you're on your osx box, you can just go straight to it by opening the builder. it works just as well standalone 03:31:20 What happened to xena? 03:31:34 Do I need to use ProjectBuilderWO? 03:31:43 (i'm always on my osx box ;)) 03:31:47 it doesn't do css or have any support for extended tags, as you'd want with arbitrary xml schemas 03:32:06 no, you don't need to open PB. 03:32:14 ugh: The world’s easiest-to-use application server is written in the language of the Internet: Java. 03:32:25 I don't have my osx plugged into my monitor, otherwise I could be more specific ;) 03:32:28 .time 03:32:32 I've been lured by Gnome 03:32:44 Um... could you possibly get xena to stop ignoring me? 03:32:50 .google foo 03:33:10 hmm, "easiest-to-use" and "java" in the same sentence. 03:33:11 should pinging her do something? 03:33:39 probably not 03:34:00 i suppose i will have to investigate 03:34:10 WOBuilder! that's it 03:34:27 ProjectBuilderWO? 03:34:33 .time 03:34:41 xena can see us, and it tries to answer. 03:34:53 never mind, it was answering deltab 03:35:01 i better kill it 03:35:03 .time 03:35:05 xena has quit ("local keyboard interrupt") 03:35:29 deltab, you weren't even appearing on the screen 03:35:39 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:36:02 ugh, what is it kvetching about now? 03:36:21 xena has quit (Client Quit) 03:37:05 ProjectBuilderWO is the IDE. WebObjects Builder is the html editing app 03:38:03 what have you been hacking in on osx? 03:38:17 python in pepper 03:38:38 have you been throught the tutorials on ProjectBuilder? 03:38:50 no 03:38:56 ie. building Cocoa apps 03:39:01 oh, you are missing out. 03:39:23 well, i don't know C and i'm not going to learn Java 03:39:51 how about AppleScript? ;) 03:39:51 so i have nothing to do but whine for AS Studio to support OSA 03:41:05 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m345-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:41:08 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:41:26 sbp (~sean@m345-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:42:14 http://www.aaa-plus.com/ 03:42:29 i have fun designing dream apps in interface builder 03:43:19 interesting 03:43:31 Joy is the bridge that lets Python, Perl, Tcl, and even JavaScript be first-class Cocoa apps in ProjectBuilder, just like Apple's AppleStudio does with AppleScript 03:43:39 ooh, really?! 03:43:59 yes. and from what I've heard, it's near flawless, "it just works" 03:44:04 wow! 03:44:28 complete Cocoa apps in Python or Tcl, whichever you're preferring these days ;) 03:44:38 Python, these days 03:44:43 If this works I'll go crazy. 03:44:49 (in a good way) 03:45:02 I sort of muse about merging Python and Tcl... 03:45:29 the problem with Python is most cool things require language extensions, and the python folks hate language extensions. that's what makes me miss tcl 03:45:36 * kenm forgets Aaron said that 03:45:53 hmm 03:46:20 kinda what you just said, in that regard, Python and Tcl are on entirely opposite sides of the issue 03:46:37 yeah 03:46:44 so they should be merged! 03:46:57 the nice syntax of python, with the editability of tcl 03:47:09 well, i'm not so big on the foo(arg,arg2) thing... 03:47:13 heh, what you want is Dylan ;) it's got the most minimal of core syntax, everything else is macros, including support for any and all special characters ;) 03:47:36 heh, heh. apparently whats-his-names new lisp will be like that. 03:48:10 Dylan *is* lisp, except that the normative syntax is all based on macros 03:48:46 ok 03:48:54 i guess it's the same idea then 03:49:04 but, you *must* investigate Cocoa. it is far and away the best GUI development environment on the planet 03:49:04 hmm, i can't find this webobjects builder on my machine 03:49:08 oh, i know! 03:49:18 i love it, even tho i've not built anything yet 03:49:35 every day i wake up and go: "i wish i could program in cocoa" 03:50:46 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:51:12 have you downloaded Joy yet? 03:51:18 yeah, running it now 03:53:24 hmm, sending away for my free key 03:53:28 hmm, I can't find WOBuilder on my 10.0 partition, which I most recently used only for Cocoa development. it's possible that they integrated it into somethign else (PBWO maybe) or it's only available with the WebObjects install. does the WO install come 03:53:31 with the developer install? 03:54:05 well, i know it was on the CD with the developer tools... not sure if i installed it 03:54:57 Aargh! It only comes with Tcl and JavaScript. 03:55:02 Tcl! Can you believe that... 03:55:26 And JavaScript... irony or ironies. 03:55:30 s/or/of/ 03:57:08 do they no longer support Perl or Python, or are those seperate? 03:57:32 Perl was one of the first they ever supported, if not the first 03:58:03 i don't see anything about perl or python on their site 03:58:06 well, you might enjoy Tcl and Cocoa ;) 03:58:10 Heh. 03:58:42 I used to program in JavaScript before I learned Tcl, so it's doubly funny. 03:59:29 """Aaron: "Why does it take two days for a package to get from Austin to Illinois?" That's like asking why there are more Windows users than there are Mac users - it's just one of those things that are impossible to explain...""" - http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ 03:59:44 heh 04:00:09 tomc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:00:37 Pff, why do I bother? I've had about 10 hits to my brand spanking new Weblog 04:00:50 for google, silly! 04:00:56 * AaronSw runs his while 1 script on sbp's weblog. 04:01:03 Heh, heh, heh 04:01:17 heh, Objective-JavaScript 04:01:19 i read your weblog and find it very informative. 04:01:35 yeah, what's up with the objective-javascript? 04:02:14 maybe my evaluation key will activate the super python features 04:02:27 Objective-* means it supports the keyword-style syntax of Smalltalk, derived originally via Objective-C 04:02:52 I can see objective-tcl then -- just throw in some :s and you're done 04:04:27 odd, I don't even see mention of Tcl 04:04:31 on the website 04:04:36 google does 04:04:42 but no perl or python 04:04:52 .google site:aaa-plus.com python 04:04:53 no results found. 04:05:45 .google site:www.aaa-plus.com python 04:05:46 no results found. 04:06:11 brief mention: "Joy 1.x used Tcl as the base language; 2.x uses Obj-JS" 04:06:21 .google site:www.aaa-plus.com tcl 04:06:22 site:www.aaa-plus.com tcl: http://www.aaa-plus.com/joy/docs/Manual.Tcl/English.lproj/Tcl/Tcl.html 04:06:31 i mean, there's a big tcl button in the program 04:06:36 and a javascript one 04:13:47 that's a bummer. 04:13:53 perhaps i can implement it in tcl or something 04:14:21 wow, sad, it looks like they dropped Perl and Python a long, long time ago. Tcl hangs on, I'm sure, just because it was so well integrated. 04:15:45 :-( 04:16:16 to think i was so close. 04:17:20 well, try Tcl or Obj-JS with Cocoa before you turn your back on it forever ;) Objective-C is really nice too, makes C++ look like the bloated elephant it is, but it still has it's own problems 04:18:05 yeah, of course. i'll send them an email too. 04:18:42 maybe you can get them to open-source those bindings ;) 04:19:09 I'm off. g'nite! 04:19:12 c'ya 04:19:16 kenm has quit ("Leaving") 04:26:09 Archaea (http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/archaea/archaea.html) news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1764000/1764716.stm 04:26:36 Bijan: "look how much my wriitng has degerabled. shocking" 04:27:00 heh, that's what happens when yer on irc 04:27:16 yyeh 04:27:27 im bery exited about tis joy! 04:37:04 whee! joy is fun. 04:37:17 i'm building life-size gui apps in a command line! 04:46:14 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m5-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:46:32 sbp (~sean@m5-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:47:15 cool, you can mess with apps for which you don't even have source! 04:59:58 lol: """Imagine that a friend of yours is at a party talking to Dale, a beautiful member of whatever sex you happen to fancy.""" - http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/dead-trees/53001.htm 05:01:29 why are you reading the old edition? 05:02:38 Because I did not know that there was a new edition 05:02:57 it says there is right at the top of the page 05:03:18 Heh: "I include a picture of myself naked with my old dog George and maps to my house and office on my site. And just as I typed that last period, sitting in what I thought was the privacy of my own home, someone I didn't know called me up. At 8:20 p.m. on a Monday. Would I make a donation to the March of Dimes?" 05:09:16 oh, nads to this 05:09:17 @ http://web.archive.org/web/20001004103052/http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/stradbroke/25/croissant.ra 05:09:24 E: http://web.archive.org/web/20001004103052/http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/stradbroke/25/croissant.ra from sbp 05:09:42 E:|Phoebe: I Can't Say Croissant... Oh my God! 05:09:43 titled item E 05:09:56 @ http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_496952.html?menu=news.quirkies 05:09:58 oh, it's realaudio isn't it? 05:10:02 F: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_496952.html?menu=news.quirkies from sbp 05:10:10 E::In Real Audio format 05:10:11 commented item E 05:10:15 no! he's spamming the channel with stupid Radio UserLand stories! 05:10:27 F:|The Haggis Launcher 05:10:28 titled item F 05:10:38 Well, someone may as well read this junk 05:10:42 please, no more! 05:10:47 :-) 05:10:56 Aw, come on! 05:11:00 sbp: I already read them when they were on your page 05:11:06 same here 05:11:12 no wonder they appeared instantly 05:11:12 just point people to your radio page 05:11:25 Mwahahahaha. Sod it 05:13:05 * sbp uninstalls R8 05:13:14 ! 05:13:15 that lasted long 05:13:19 Heh, heh 05:13:31 'twas fun whilst it lasted 05:13:42 sbp hates everything it seems. this is why i'm not going to send him a mac. he'll try to uninstall it after 15 minutes! 05:14:00 Heh! 05:14:23 Well, the HTML was pretty poor anyway. I know I can edit it, but it really was bad 05:14:44 cf. my award winning R8 blog: http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/2002/01/17.html#a3 05:16:04 * sbp carefully archives the thing - http://web.archive.org/web/20020116211717/http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ 05:16:47 N.B. If you sent me a Mac, I'd get to uninstall Windows 05:16:55 hmm, good point 05:17:16 would you like an old iBook? it's blue and toilet-seat-shaped and needs ram 05:17:44 .google toilet-seat-shaped iBook 05:17:45 toilet-seat-shaped iBook: http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/reviews/story/0,23008,3328300,00.html 05:18:06 oh, you fixed xena? 05:18:11 yeah 05:18:31 ooh, nice laptop 05:19:11 yeah, it was really durable... survived a lot of bumping and banging at school for 2 or 3 years 05:19:29 Crap chat up line #9018265: "Why, what a wonderful laptop. Mind if I sit on it?" 05:19:32 oh, not that one. 05:19:36 Heh, heh 05:19:45 yep, #9018265 strikes again 05:20:06 no, i meant that url doesn't picture the toilet shaped one 05:20:39 Ah, right 05:20:53 .google oval iBook 05:20:54 oval iBook: http://sfsubookstore.com/orders/catalog.lasso 05:21:09 it's more popularly called "clamshell-shaped" 05:21:11 or clam-shaped 05:22:20 Hmm... can't find one 05:22:52 http://www.macworld.com/1999/10/22/ibook.html 05:24:14 Thanks... but no pic. 05:24:25 well here we go: http://images.google.com/images?q=clamshell+ibook&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wi 05:24:50 specifcally mine looks like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/400000/images/_400464_imac_handle150.jpg 05:25:12 Cool 05:25:13 the orange one looks like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/400000/images/_400464_imac_promo300.jpg 05:26:12 .google chicago force 05:26:13 chicago force: http://chicagoforce.org/register/logout 05:28:19 Actually, it's a good job that I did uninstall R8 - I would only have becomed attached to it, and wailed when it got taken awa from me in 30 days 05:28:26 becomed? lol 05:28:38 heh 05:33:12 B::No longer maintained, since I uninstalled R8. Perhaps I could put the site up again somewhere else? Nah... 05:33:13 commented item B 05:33:53 Another RDF API? Eep! 05:34:01 Heh, heh 05:34:20 this one is rather small, though 05:35:29 Will Dave take the site down after the 30 days, do ya reckon? That's be a shame. I quite enjoyed it 05:35:40 s/That's/That'd/ 05:36:11 I doubt it. 05:42:46 tav, i got zooko to provide rss output 05:42:53 it's available via blogifyYourPage 05:47:24 sbp's weblog was so much fun. i miss it already 05:47:40 argh... me too 05:48:13 you can always install the new Radio 8.0.1 05:48:57 8.0.1? 05:49:01 yeah 05:49:34 hey, sbp, can you take a look at http://logicerror.com/test for me? 05:52:41 Sure 05:53:13 lol! that's hillarious 05:53:28 :-) 05:53:55 Shame it didn't work 05:54:04 what happened? 05:54:13 script error on page 05:54:17 aww. 05:54:32 oops 05:54:34 forgot to close a ) 05:54:50 ok, reload. 05:55:00 heh, no way :-) 05:55:18 oh alright 05:55:27 thanks 05:55:30 done 05:55:36 I dunno if it worked. Let me know 05:55:41 will do 05:55:43 no script errors this time 05:55:54 if it doesn't i'll stick corrected versions into random pages on my site 05:56:09 ;-) 05:56:36 * sbp makes note not to visit any page authored by Aaron ever again 05:57:09 whoa, wtf just happened?! 05:57:13 What? 05:57:33 hello? 05:57:35 my screen went all screwy and I heard this "chuck, chuck, chuck" sound like someone hitting metal into speakers 05:57:47 Ooh, weird 05:58:28 i guess i was not meant to know the secrets of cygbot 05:59:08 BenSw|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:59:08 alright, i better get to sleep. g'nite 05:59:28 TODO tomorrow: write up snowman story for my blog 05:59:42 oh, and get vorpal running 06:00:23 nite 06:00:51 c'ya 06:07:26 """*sigh* 30 days trials really are a trial. I decided to uninstall R8 - I couldn't face getting attached to it and then having it taken away from me after the evaluation period. I managed to uninstall the product without too much bother - but I was left with a stange sensation... something... missing. The seconds ticked by.... nothing to do... must... blog... news items...""" - Bring It On Home, http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ 06:08:04 BLURB:30-Day Trials 06:08:06 G: 30-Day Trials from sbp 06:08:19 G::"""*sigh* 30 days trials really are a trial. I decided to uninstall R8 - I couldn't face getting attached to it and then having it taken away from me after the evaluation period. I managed to uninstall the product without too much bother - but I was left with a stange sensation... something... missing. The seconds ticked by.... nothing to do... must... blog... news items...""" - [http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/|Bring It On Home] 06:08:20 commented item G 06:45:43 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m112-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 06:46:01 sbp (~sean@m112-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 07:36:41 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:50:29 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:21:05 tansaku2 (~sam@h132-057.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:23:56 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:25:17 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 08:27:48 xena has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:28:04 deltab has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:28:59 AaronSw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:29:14 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 08:29:48 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 08:34:51 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 09:28:59 tansaku3 (~sam@h132-057.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:47:28 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:52:59 tansaku3 is now known as tansaku 10:32:52 tansaku4 (~sam@h133-066.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:49:44 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:56:55 tansaku4 is now known as tansaku 12:10:14 tansaku5 (~sam@h133-066.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:15:04 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:57:14 tansaku5 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:12:12 BenSw|watchingsimpsons (~x@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 13:43:25 BenSw|watchingsimpsons is now known as BenSw 13:44:32 thc (lambda@modem-656.python.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 13:44:59 wb thc 13:45:22 ty, hello 13:45:47 whats up? 13:46:35 not alot... I was just wondering if I should eat something 13:47:40 :-) and yourself? 13:48:31 nothing much trying to start on my MMORPG 13:50:34 That means big game? 13:51:08 sorta... like Everquest, but in python 13:51:26 :o) Yes I learn this stuff from my brother... 13:51:53 I have heard of everquest, can't say I know anything about it 13:52:24 but OK :) 13:58:00 gotta go now cya 13:58:13 BenSw has quit () 14:01:32 deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:16:43 tansaku5 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:27:14 tansaku5 is now known as tansaku 14:27:27 sean, sean, sean, sean 14:33:24 deus_x (~deus_x@adsl-65-42-33-202.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net) has joined #swhack 14:42:44 thc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:19:08 * AaronSw does some photo blogging 15:52:42 * AaronSw installs WebObjects 15:53:29 wha?! i have to be root? 15:53:37 pfflarg 15:59:20 it says to read the manual for instructions, and the manual says i don't need to be root. 16:21:33 thc (lambda@modem-1556.porcupine.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 16:29:00 TomC (lambda@modem-850.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 16:34:51 today's question is what FS to use 16:35:01 i hear ReiserFS is pretty good. 16:35:27 sbp (~sean@m945-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:36:29 deltab, what do you recommedn? 16:36:32 hey sbp 16:37:03 TomC has quit ("brb") 16:37:52 Hi there 16:37:59 ooh, is that your house? 16:38:03 it is 16:38:22 what do you think? i thought that was a nice shot. 16:38:53 I see what you mean about winter wonderland :-) 16:38:57 heh 16:39:13 my server is currently in the truck 16:39:20 so i am making last-minute decisions and stuff 16:39:29 Heh, neat 16:39:46 now i'm trying do decide where ToReiserOrNot 16:41:09 .google Reiser 16:41:10 Reiser: http://www.tiscali.no/trav 16:41:14 reiserfs 16:42:59 .google reiserfs 16:43:01 reiserfs: http://www.namesys.com 16:44:56 [Global Notice] Hi all. A main rotation server has lost its connection. We've removed it from the rotation for the forseeable future. Apologies for the inconvenience. 16:45:45 deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:49:23 thc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:05:47 reiserfs isn't highly recommended, unless it's a dev box 17:05:52 hmm, ok 17:07:05 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:10:59 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:31:37 .webster technology 17:31:39 Technology defined as: 17:31:40 n. [Gr. ? an art + -logy; cf. Gr. ? 17:31:41 - systematic treatment: cf. F. technologie.] Industrial science; the science of systematic knowledge of the industrial arts, especially of the more important manufactures, as spinning, weaving, metallurgy, etc. 17:31:42 - Note: Technology is not an independent science, having a set of doctrines of its own, but consists of applications of the principles established in the various physical sciences (chemistry, mechanics, mineralogy, etc.) to manufacturing processes. --Internat. Cyc. 17:32:02 XHTML 2.0 is a file format, not a technology. 17:32:06 .wn technology 17:32:07 technology defined as: 17:32:09 - n 1: the practical application of science to commerce or industry [syn: {engineering}] 17:32:09 - 2: the discipline dealing with the art or science of applying scientific knowledge to practical problems; "he had trouble deciding which branch of engineering to study" [syn: {engineering}, {engineering science}, {applied science}] 18:12:33 .acronym wtf 18:12:36 wtf: What The Freak (polite form), Waste Treatment Facility, Way To Fail, What If, What's This For?, When The Freak (polite form), Where the Freak (polite form), Where's the Food?, Where's the Fridge?, Why the Failure, Why The Freak (polite form), Wisconsin Test Facility, World Taekwon Do Federation, World Tennis Federation 18:13:34 .acronym wmf 18:13:35 wmf: Weighted Matched Filter, Windows Media Format (Microsoft), Windows Metafile (file name extension), Workload Monitoring Function, World Monuments Fund (New York City, NY, USA) 18:13:53 .acronym esp 18:13:55 esp: Especially, Extrasensory Perception, Early Support Program, Earthquake Survival Program, Earth-Surface-Potential, E-commerce Service Provider, Economic Security Project, Edge Services Provider, Educational Series for Parents, Electric Submersible Pump, Electro Selective Pattern (Olympus cameras), Electromagnetic Surface Patch, Electronic Security and Patrol, Electronic Shift Program, 18:13:56 Electronic Skip Protection (portable CD players), Electronic Sort Processor, Electronic Stability Program, Electronic Statement Presentment, Electronic Strike Package, Electronic Support Planner (USAP) 18:38:02 eruditus (~me@64-248-250-242.client.dsl.net) has joined #swhack 18:38:14 eruditus has left #swhack 18:44:21 raaaaaargh! 18:44:24 it's here! 18:44:24 \ 18:47:52 * AaronSw bounces off walls! 18:49:08 Mom: "You have no business getting that excited over something that's not a Mac. I'm going to tell Steve on you." 18:50:16 AaronSw has changed the topic to: vorpal is here! 19:24:48 BenSw has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:25:37 kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 19:25:49 doh! you're right, Objective-Everything 19:27:52 you don't happen to have a copy, do you? 19:27:58 no 19:30:31 what's the generic linux NIC driver? 19:30:40 eth? 19:31:01 no... 19:32:19 hmm, tiptop seems to no longer have the Objective pages... 19:32:35 yeah, you can get them from web.archive.org tho 19:32:40 but no download :( 19:32:45 hmm, i'll guess tulip 19:34:42 hmm, modprobe can't find it 19:52:43 gotta run, ttyl 19:52:44 kenm has quit ("Leaving") 19:55:43 Aha. The Dell PowerEdge 500SC uses an Intel EtherExpress Pro 10/100 Ethernet NIC card (Intel 82557) and thus should be configured with the eepro100 driver. 20:12:05 vorpal: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/images/newserver.jpg 20:49:15 man, apt rocks! 20:49:22 i gotta install apt-rpm on my redhat boxen 21:37:09 sbp (~sean@m76-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:47:43 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m769-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 21:48:00 sbp (~sean@m769-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:55:14 hey there! 22:02:35 thc (lambda@modem-1273.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 22:11:16 debian rocks! 22:11:41 AaronSw has changed the topic to: vorpal is here and debian rocks! 22:12:23 :-) 22:16:51 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:17:11 tansaku6 (~sam@n145-241.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 22:17:55 there are 6 of you now? 22:22:58 hmm, why does apt-getting courier-imap make me get exim? 22:23:49 one annoying thing w/ debian is installing qmail.. debian won't let you uninstall exim b/c everythingdepends on a "mail-transport-agent" 22:24:12 hmm 22:24:18 you can replace one by another though, surely? 22:24:32 rpm would let me do that 22:24:45 yeah, it's just that the debian folks and djb have philosphical problems with each other 22:24:49 actually, hmm 22:25:05 so you have to grab the "illicit" qmail packages 22:25:35 or use source 22:25:35 apt-get i really quit nice, tho 22:26:05 who needs source when you have apt? 22:28:29 sbp (~sean@m60-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:30:28 aha. the problem is that courier-imap lists valid packages explicitly 22:30:28 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:34:07 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:46:11 aha. i forgot to install qmail-run 22:47:57 wow, toad.com 22:51:10 which is..? 22:51:19 err. toad.com is down 22:51:27 I noticed. 22:51:41 it's john gillmore's website... www.toad.com seems to work 22:51:47 Oh 22:52:24 supporting free speech 22:52:56 That's wonderful :o) 23:05:30 he runs a very useful non-spam open relay, but it seems to be down. 23:06:08 ok, so now that i've installed qmail properly, courier-imap downloads fine 23:06:16 tav, you can tell scipient to grab the qmail packages 23:07:20 tansaku6 is now known as tansaku 23:07:24 anyone know how to jump to the start of a line in bash? 23:07:37 ^a 23:07:46 ah, nice, thanks 23:28:59 .debian mailman 23:29:03 .dtrt debian:mailman 23:29:05 debian:mailman: http://www.google.com/search?q=debian%3Amailman 23:29:09 hmmph 23:29:49 haha, it dtwt 23:29:55 lol 23:30:42 man, debian has everything 23:32:43 packages.debian.org needs an "i'm feeling lucky" button 23:32:56 thought you already had a debian box? 23:33:02 * tav hugs his debian laptop 23:33:04 no, vorpal is my first 23:33:16 it's so much fun 23:33:48 yea, my favourite moment was... *fuck! no wget! then going oh it's debian 'apt-get install wget'* 23:33:53 heh 23:33:54 tansaku has quit (Connection timed out) 23:33:58 and being able to use wget on the second command 23:34:03 yeah, i had that a few hours ago 23:34:12 it so rocks! 23:34:17 i created a little script called fink that automatically runs apt-get under sudo 23:34:26 now it feels just like my mac ;-) 23:34:28 heh fink 23:35:44 apt-get is too long to type 23:36:06 why didn't they just call it "apt"? 23:36:50 apt-get is one of the commands in apt, I guess 23:36:51 cos there are other apps in apt 23:37:06 just alias apt-get to apt 23:37:22 but there's no apt package, or any other apt-* packages, right? 23:37:24 or fink :-) 23:37:26 s/package/app/ 23:37:35 ehm, yes there are 23:37:42 oh, what are they? 23:37:42 yeah, i like my finklet 23:37:51 apt-cache / config / setup / sortpkgs 23:37:52 etc 23:38:03 oh, right 23:38:12 but apt-get is clearly most important ;-) 23:38:18 indeed 23:38:38 i have an apt-upgrade alias which apt-get updates and then updates 23:38:39 apt-cdrom, -move, -zip 23:38:42 r0x0r! 23:39:07 * AaronSw adds that to his finklet 23:39:17 what's apt-cdrom do? 23:39:44 ah: apt-cdrom is used to add a new CDROM to APTs list of available sources 23:43:40 hmm, turns out qmail isn't in the distro because it puts its directories in strange places. 23:43:50 pretty awful reason, imo 23:47:24 dinner 23:54:38 sbp (~sean@m73-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:55:48 tomc (lambda@modem-3062.porcupine.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 2002-01-18.txt0100644000014300000000000007117007422132257011676 0ustar nobodyroot00:14:21 thc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:14:37 tomc is now known as thc 00:15:53 * sbp waves 00:17:21 * thc waves 00:18:18 * AaronSw waves 00:18:41 who can package? whois your man? debian, debian, that's who can! 00:29:27 the only problem with debian is its crazy python scheme 00:32:16 * sbp should be updating BIOH 00:33:23 crazy python? 00:33:37 ooh, IEEE edited my article 00:33:48 python: new versions of python have different names, so they aren't upgraded 00:33:57 for example, python 2.2 is called python2.2 00:34:09 that's python's own scheme 00:34:24 in what way? it doesn't compile like that. 00:34:37 /usr/biin/python is a link to the latest (or whichever is wanted as default) 00:34:51 yes, i mean the packages are different, and the resulting installs 00:34:52 sure it does 00:35:19 so if you upgrade python, you still get python 1.5.2 00:42:01 Amazing how every other channel seemed to suffer netsplits, but we're all on the same server group 00:42:13 hmm, i didn't notice 00:42:23 all hail the swhack server! 00:45:08 Heh, heh 00:45:44 heh 00:45:48 i'm on hogan 00:45:58 .time 00:45:58 2002/01/18 00:47:36.7086 Universal 00:46:00 maybe i split 00:46:02 i'm on forward 00:46:03 or suffering huge lags 00:46:03 anyways, be sure to install python2.2-xml 00:46:15 tav_ and tav` are on forward 00:46:19 ok... think it installed automatically 00:46:22 but i'll check 00:46:27 it did? 00:46:28 hmz 00:46:29 tav_, eh? 00:46:34 another tav 00:46:46 sbp sees him in some channels 00:46:48 i grabed the "python bundle" which had all sorts of goodies 00:47:29 "python bundle" ? 00:47:47 yeah, in the very first installation process 00:47:56 oh 00:48:05 i hated those bundles 00:48:12 why? 00:48:16 i reinstalled to a v.nice 60 mb install 00:48:32 the bundles installed all kinds of shit i didn't want 00:48:37 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:49:09 well, i've plenty disk space so i don't really mind 00:50:26 well, i was more interested in knowing exactly what i installed 00:50:34 Hello 00:50:39 hi ben 00:50:45 hi 00:50:50 taken over AaronSw's box whilst he's playing on vorpal? 00:51:01 Reload BIOH, guys 00:51:07 Heh, heh 00:51:08 he, 'course not 00:51:21 i'm playing via SSH now 00:51:46 I was stymied by the acronym BIOH for a while 00:51:54 :-) 00:52:23 did you change the design or will i pick it up via RSS? 00:52:31 RSS 00:52:54 .e bioh 00:52:54 bioh: http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ 00:52:59 heh 00:53:19 Kick-ass! 00:53:22 why couldn't userland just leave out the frigging 0's ? 00:53:39 1542 is so much easier to recall than 0101542 00:53:45 yeah, you're right 00:53:54 and this from someone who memorised his private key 00:54:08 you memorized it??? fuck! 00:54:11 how many bits? 00:54:24 i can't recall the second half no more 00:54:27 perhaps there was some advantage to them (DW et. al.) using a fixed-amount of characters 00:54:35 heh, that's a bit of a bummer 00:55:52 heh, frizzy 00:55:59 :-) 00:56:13 -- 00:56:13 I couldn't face getting attached to it and then having it taken away from me after the evaluation period 00:56:14 -- 00:56:15 hmz 00:56:28 what happens to the blog after the 30 days? 00:56:41 does userland delete it? or just freeze your account? 00:56:50 i don't think they've said 00:57:31 * sbp is rather worried too 00:57:40 * sbp goes to http://www.acronymfinder.com/add.asp?acronym=BIOH and plans a new entry 00:57:50 heh 00:57:51 if they take it down, I'll just move it, anyway 00:58:11 i'll move it anyway 00:58:25 I need a cooler URI... maybe aaronsw.com/weblog/ 00:58:37 sbp: you'll like what philh and i are making 00:58:47 uh oh. radio zope? 00:58:53 radio zopists 00:58:59 heh 00:59:02 radio zopists 01:00:19 * sbp might use http://infomesh.net/weblog/ or http://infomesh.net/bioh/ 01:00:34 radzops 01:00:42 I like the idea 01:01:10 [GlobalNotice] Hey all, just letting you know we're working on this problem. Not sure exactly what the deal is, though it appears a massive clone attack transpired with #debian as its epicenter. We're doing our best to get the network's stability back. More updates as new information is available. 01:03:14 *sigh* 01:03:17 first morbus was here 01:03:24 then he's in #iA 01:03:47 heh, don't tell him 01:04:05 no, i don't want him to do #p2p-hackers 01:04:18 how old is he? 01:04:45 i dunno offhand 01:04:55 it's strange. i don't feel that way about anyone. but morbus and kazz.... 01:05:49 heh, there's python2.2-elisp (i went and manually added python-mode) 01:06:00 apt-get is surprisingly up to date 01:06:08 well, at least /unstable is 01:06:29 * sbp notes that #iA doesn't have logs 01:07:11 sure it does 01:07:17 ?? logs 01:07:17 ehm 01:07:23 what's -f do? 01:07:32 it does but they're espian-private 01:07:35 irclogs.espnow.com/infoanarchy-logs 01:07:39 ah 01:07:52 -f on? 01:07:56 apt-get 01:08:10 didn't know there was that 01:08:12 oh, it forces it 01:08:18 -f Attempt to continue if the integrity check fails 01:08:31 my favorite feature is apt-get moo 01:08:45 i know update / upgrade / check / install / remove / clean 01:09:04 lol @ moo 01:09:09 how'd you find that? 01:09:19 This APT has Super Cow Powers. 01:09:42 you worked it out from that? 01:10:01 no... the debian fans used to post it into the channel all the time 01:10:07 ah 01:11:55 ok, looks like i've got woody all set up 01:12:00 i guess now i should install the ram 01:12:16 I don't understand this message: 01:12:17 The following packages have been kept back 01:12:18 debian-policy 01:12:18 0 01:12:45 did they get bad marks in class or something? 01:15:30 [GlobalNotice] Okay, it looks like it's under control and most everything has been restored. We apologize for the violent interruption in service. Thank you for using the Open Projects Network. If any new information comes up, we'll keep everyone posted. Thank you. 01:21:59 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 01:22:08 vorpal? 01:22:34 Vorpal 01:22:37 Aaron's new server 01:22:43 .google Vorpal 01:22:44 Vorpal: http://www.hamline.edu/~thodapp/morris/vorpal.html 01:23:43 man that ram was hard to install 01:24:28 AaronSw: congrats. and yes, debian does rock 01:24:36 thanks. :-) 01:24:39 I decided to name my servers after made-up words in Jabberwocky. if i run out i can expand to carollian words, and then to made-up phenomic words, and then just phenomic words. 01:24:51 the machine I used in undergrad was vorpal.phys.ucsb.edu :) 01:25:04 heh, cool 01:25:26 it was a general wonderland theme 01:25:27 named after jabberwocky or D&D? 01:25:30 ah 01:25:36 the first two were tweedledum and tweedledee 01:25:42 then red queen, etc. 01:25:51 i know that jhendler at umd has teaparty and madhatter, etc. 01:26:01 vorpal was a little uninspired theme-wise, but sure sounds good as a hostname :) 01:26:17 heh, yeah. 01:26:27 seems like the theme thing has gone out of fashion a bit 01:27:20 mewtwo is cute :) 01:27:47 AaronSw: so, care to share the specs for our vicarious enjoyment? 01:28:17 i noticed the daml.org servers were named after the seven deadly sins... which was quite funny when the server forgot that it was www and redirected people to pride.com 01:28:34 lol 01:28:53 uh oh... 01:28:58 interesting: http://sport.guardian.co.uk/formulaone/story/0,10069,632336,00.html 01:30:56 $ ssh vorpal 01:30:56 Last login: Thu Jan 17 19:29:02 2002 from 192.168.1.108 on pts/0 01:30:56 Linux vorpal 2.2.19 #1 Sat Jun 9 13:04:06 EST 2001 i686 unknown 01:30:56 Dell PowerEdge 500SC: 1000Mhz P3, 1GB RAM, 40GB Disk 01:30:59 (for rillian) 01:31:11 it's awfully noisy tho.. can't wait to move it to the server room 01:31:30 yeah, I've been worrying about that 01:31:40 my desktop (rain) died last fall 01:31:48 and I've been stalling on replacing it 01:32:13 hmm 01:32:25 all the dirt-cheap pc hardware seems to require very loud fans these days 01:32:36 yeah, another reason i like my macs :) 01:32:58 I was pleasantly surprised that this was only $7000 01:33:00 err $700 01:33:02 gotta run 01:33:12 c'ya later 01:33:44 cheers 01:33:44 tansaku (~sam@n146-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:35:25 yes, I'll certainly be lusting for a G5 tower, too, but that will be quite expensive 01:52:10 thc has quit ("reconnection time") 01:58:55 tomc (lambda@modem-603.python.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 01:59:16 tomc is now known as thc 02:09:28 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m19-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:09:47 sbp (~sean@m19-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:17:02 wb 02:17:56 ty 02:20:01 heh: http://www.planetout.com/images/newsplanet/comics/new_size/ethan/meeyowl.gif 02:23:07 :o) sweet 02:24:04 thc is now known as tomc 02:24:59 I think I'll avoid my initials in future 02:25:35 why? 02:26:15 .acronym thc 02:26:17 thc: Tetrahydrocannabinol (psychoactive compound in marijuana), Target Heading Change, Target Homing Correlator, Temperature and Humidity Control, Terminal Handling Charge, Texas Hemp Campaign, Texas Historical Commission (aka Texas SHPO), The Happy Chemical, Thunder Hill Crew, Total Hydrocarbon, Trace Heating Control, Tsinghua Class of Changsha First Middle School, Hunan, PR China 02:27:05 Tetrahydrocannabinol gets less and less hillarious 02:29:30 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m186-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:29:50 sbp (~sean@m186-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:30:05 wb again 02:30:13 ty again :-) 02:31:20 Mmmm, G5 tower... 02:31:34 .acronym tav 02:31:36 tav: Technical Architecture View, Technical Assistance Visit, Technical Availability, Tender Availability, Test and Verification, Timestamp-interval Adjustment at Validation, Total Asset Visibility, Transatmospheric Vehicle, Transit Accounting Version 02:31:50 aha! 02:32:46 The TAG will no doubt produce a TAV. 02:33:01 huh? 02:33:08 "Technical Architecture View" 02:33:43 .acronym tag 02:33:44 tag: Tactical Ada Guidance, Tactical Airlift Group, Tactical Assault Group, Tagalog (Filipino language), Tagbilaran, Philippines - Tagbilaran (Airport Code), Tagliabue, Talented And Gifted (school program), Target Adaptive Guidance, Task Assignment Guide, Technical Advisory Group, Technical Assistance Grant, Technology Advancement Group, Technology Advocacy Group, Technology Applications Group, 02:33:45 Technology Association of Georgia, Tell-And-Go protocol (switching technique), TEMPEST Advisory Group, Temporal Annotation Generator, Tenant Activities Group (Pentagon Renovation Project), Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia Railway Company 02:33:55 TAG: W3C's Technical Architecture Group 02:35:50 odd, i wonder why publickeys are now broken 02:37:05 yay! new fink 02:38:44 and it includes g77 :) 02:39:50 ooh 02:40:03 I actually needed that the other day 02:41:14 you don't update packages from CVS? 02:41:34 www-archive is popular these days 02:41:55 AaronSw: should I be? 02:42:02 * rillian was sticking to the releases 02:42:07 you get newer versions faster. 02:42:10 do a fink selfupdate 02:43:06 i haven't had any problems with it 02:43:35 perhaps I'll try that next time then 02:44:02 hmm, i wonder when 0.9.7 came out 02:44:48 wonder if I should cave and switch to bash on osx 02:44:57 what are you using? 02:45:27 tcsh, mostly 02:45:31 it's funny 02:45:45 I got hooked on zsh at a job in 97 02:45:56 and used it on linux for a couple of years 02:46:13 I've been hearing about zsh's cool features recently 02:46:22 but the tension between using that day-to-day and the occasional sh-portably scripting I had to do 02:46:27 got to be too much 02:46:39 (not to mention being lost on other people's systems) 02:46:45 so I switched to bash 02:47:06 now here I am on OS X, with tcsh the default (ugh) and zsh the installed option :) 02:47:23 hehe 02:47:30 Hmm, RSA or DSA? 02:47:56 I hear bash now has auto-completion for common cmd options 02:48:08 like looking in known_hosts for ssh arguments :) 02:48:15 AaronSw: RSA 02:48:16 yep! 02:48:49 one of the autocomplete authors wrote a doc about all its nifty features 02:48:53 .google bash autocomplete 02:48:55 bash autocomplete: http://www.savagetranscendental.com/tip3.html 02:49:04 hmm, that's not it 02:50:32 .google bash caliban 02:50:33 bash caliban: http://www.caliban.org/bash/index.shtml 02:54:20 that manual says zsh has had programmable complete for a while ;) 02:55:33 xena has quit (Remote closed the connection) 02:56:50 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:58:29 hmm, i'm not having much luck with ssh anymore 03:00:09 Hmm.. this is odd. 03:00:37 i'm getting two last login lines, one with my last ssh and one with my last terminal login 03:11:35 so any graphing program recommendations? 03:11:51 gnuplot is just...gnuplot 03:25:05 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m203-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:25:23 sbp (~sean@m203-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:35:13 what kind of bot is xena? 03:35:19 raph (raph@adsl-63-196-208-220.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 03:35:24 hey raph! 03:35:25 hi raph 03:35:29 hi rillian 03:35:42 xena, whois aaronsw 03:36:00 hmm, haven't implemented that yet. 03:36:04 xena, acro pptp 03:36:11 .acronym pptp 03:36:11 xena, weather sfo 03:36:12 pptp: 03:36:23 .weather2 san francisco, ca 03:36:23 .weather sfo 03:36:23 no weather stations found for sfo 03:36:31 so far, so good :) 03:36:37 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:36:46 sbp (~sean@m203-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:36:55 use weather 03:36:56 .weather2 ksfo 03:36:59 AaronSw is the person described by . 03:37:05 .weather ksfo 03:37:05 no weather stations found for ksfo 03:37:28 how'd raph know xena's a bot? 03:37:41 who's raph? 03:37:47 * rillian told him 03:37:57 .google "Raph Levien" 03:37:58 "Raph Levien": http://www.levien.com 03:38:11 raph is the famed creator of advogato, as well as a smart crypto and graphics guy 03:38:20 Wow 03:39:00 * raph has no idea why ".google raph" gives the wrong answer 03:39:42 ".google Aaron" gives the wrong answer too, unless the question is "Who is Aaron Swartz?", which is a pretty silly question 03:39:49 pfft 03:40:05 I don't think so. 03:40:56 .search raph 03:40:56 3D Artists: http://www.raph.com/3dartists 03:40:57 Personal info for raph: http://www.advogato.org/person/raph 03:41:18 man, google likes radio blogs: 03:41:19 .google pychord 03:41:19 pychord: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663 03:41:48 BenSwX has left #swhack 03:41:59 damn! 03:42:00 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 03:42:09 what? 03:42:17 at the speed of google 03:42:29 you mean: dangit! 03:42:51 no i mean "damn!" as a way of expressing being impressed 03:43:38 "damngit" is also an interjection that may express "yea, I am impressed" 03:45:15 argh, nothing to be found at http://web.archive.org/*/http://www.geocities.com/dreamyemmy16/lionheartintro.html 03:45:46 what were/are you looking for there? 03:46:38 Raph seems to recommend "The Brothers Lionheart" 03:46:43 he does 03:46:50 i have a tarball from the site if you like 03:46:59 ooh, yes please 03:47:16 dcc? 03:47:20 sure 03:47:47 "ethical copyright violation" :) 03:48:00 heh; yes, I noticed that bit 03:48:14 many thanks 03:49:21 a plurality of welcomes 03:50:20 * sbp will have to remember that one 03:51:34 hmm, i wonder if I can receive DCCs. 03:52:39 odd that archive doesn't have it 03:52:47 it did before 03:53:04 aaron: generally not if you're behind nat 03:53:18 that's what I figured. 03:53:27 Ah, the archive does have it: http://web.archive.org/web/20020117195430/http://www.geocities.com/dreamyemmy16/lionheartintro.html 03:53:50 it just doesn't work with the * sometimes... i think it has to do with their indicies not being as up-to-date as the content 03:57:21 how did you find the magical date, then? 03:57:36 oh, it's today 03:57:41 I just visited http://web.archive.org/http://www.geocities.com/dreamyemmy16/lionheartintro.html and it redirected. 03:58:33 /. has a story on tv copy prevention 03:58:53 i'm sure that tv copy prevention, when they perfect it, will work almost as well as audio copy prevention does now 03:59:18 not at all? 03:59:54 :-) 04:00:16 actually, movie sharing is 100% inevitable 04:01:05 yeah, i turned around one day and my younger brother had "Monsters, Inc." on a VCD. 04:01:06 * raph is putting together a set of harry potter vcd's, for fun 04:01:20 where did he get it? 04:01:28 off of irc, apparently 04:01:36 that's a big file 04:01:43 but irc is efficient :) 04:02:15 hey, it's raph 04:02:15 even so, it takes, what, 10 hours to upload one cd-rom over a 128kbps dsl? 04:03:07 we have a cable modem, so he hit download before he went to sleep and it's done by the morning 04:03:14 aha 04:03:20 11.3 04:03:33 swarming would be interesting 04:03:34 so 10 is close :-) 04:03:53 you could _almost_ stream it live over a 1.5Mbs dsl 04:04:48 yeah, almost 04:04:49 there was an article in the times today where Jack Valenti said something like: the only moat protecting us is the lack of broadband in homes 04:05:07 or just fine if you use something better than mpeg-1/2 04:05:43 jack valenti would benefit from an optical fiber colonoscopy 04:06:20 * raph does not understand why the price of internet is not going down 04:06:54 it isn't? 04:07:00 not from what i see 04:07:09 it seems to be where I am 04:07:28 price/speed seems to be 04:07:43 I used to have phone bills that were over £100 04:08:05 raph: it is everywhere but the US, I think 04:08:08 ah 04:08:14 now they're a constant £19pm 04:08:15 that would make sense 04:08:16 there was a /. article on that tuesday :) 04:08:38 right, i remember making fun of the price non-us'ers paid for slow internet :) 04:08:43 * sbp has found his bill getting cheaper too, although it's been a rough path 04:09:05 and I can get 10-times-faster cable for £6pm more 04:09:40 i've gone from phone->isdn->cable for an increase in speed at roughly the same price per month 04:10:46 cable pricing is a bit skewed though 04:10:57 because it's all based on low utilization 04:11:18 'course phone was too 04:11:30 raph: yeah, I don't think that argument means anything 04:11:31 a t1 still costs ~ $1k/month 04:11:37 you have to be specific about 04:11:50 costs and actual utilization 04:11:53 right 04:12:01 * raph is not complaining 04:12:15 i use the hell out of my dsl line, 5 static ip's and all 04:12:28 tomc has quit (Connection timed out) 04:13:01 I should see about getting my bandwidth cap raised now that I've switched to a faster plan 04:29:39 duplexing is not working :( 04:30:01 oops, not the most appropriate channel, sorry 04:54:58 nite all 04:55:43 cheers 05:04:31 c'ya 05:15:00 nite all 05:15:03 BenSwX has quit ("Warden: theres no Air in Space. Homer: But theres an Air and Space Museum") 05:22:23 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m225-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 05:22:42 sbp (~sean@m225-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:51:36 rillian has quit ("night") 06:19:49 * sbp finds some chapters missing 06:25:21 * sbp gets them from Alexa 07:21:55 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m171-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 07:22:13 sbp (~sean@m171-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 07:34:59 thank you, Raph 07:35:02 Gotta run 07:54:44 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:57:40 tansaku9 (~sam@n146-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:58:20 raph has quit ("sleep") 10:12:35 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:32:25 tansaku9 is now known as tansaku 14:17:01 Heh, McCusker clearly found our chat with hazmat: 14:17:09 http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#17jan02-dependency 14:17:18 -- 14:17:28 avoiding dependency @ 14:17:28 IronDoc was always intended as the Mithril DB, from day one. 14:17:28 Obviously folks using other languages should not be shut out. 14:17:28 I could be a jerk and make IronDoc depend on Mithril to work. 14:17:28 But I won't do that, because imperialism isn't my coding goal. 14:17:29 Notice IronDoc isn't done now. It keeps folks from bugging me. 14:17:31 [...] 14:17:40 I wouldn't say IronDoc was designed into the ground. No, sir. 14:17:40 It's actually a bit on the threadbare side in total db complexity. 14:17:40 Sure, it's more complex than simple things like Berkeley db. 14:17:41 But that's what you get when everything can go in a single file. 14:17:41 The db closure trick is a hard one to pull off with any elegance. 14:17:43 -- 15:37:11 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 17:43:13 sbp (~sean@m598-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:27:12 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:47:03 sbp (~sean@m779-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:47:24 * sbp plays Crosstown Traffic 18:50:23 * AaronSw waves, wonders if tav is around 18:58:32 sbp, we've been asked to work on the primer, what's your schedule like? 18:58:52 you need to make `u simpsons` a web app. 19:00:29 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 19:19:14 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:22:01 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 19:26:28 BenSwX has quit (Client Quit) 19:33:43 lunch 20:01:19 sbp (~sean@m24-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:01:56 re 20:03:16 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:03:20 hi folks 20:03:26 Hi there 20:03:39 is there a way to stop xena from logging a comment? 20:03:47 xena? 20:03:55 creature 20:03:57 xena logs, but privately 20:04:03 hmm.. 20:04:21 logster is the public logger, and you can prepend your statements with "# " to get it to ignore them 20:04:23 there is a #zope logger thats sending to irclogs.espnow.com 20:04:30 which is ignoring # 20:04:48 it appears to be xena, unless there is some other bot there i didn't notice 20:05:12 no, that's xena. I didn't know that she ignored "# [...]" 20:05:27 ugh.. 20:16:18 * sbp sends Aaron a `u simpsons` CGI 20:21:26 .seen sbp 20:21:26 sbp seen in #swhack saying: [ .seen sbp ] ~ ago 20:21:29 .seen sbp 3 20:21:30 sbp seen in #swhack saying: [ # xena, ignore this ] ~ 6 sec(s) ago 20:21:39 blargh. That's an annoying bug 20:49:23 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:54:04 tomc (lambda@modem-2878.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 20:57:21 tomc has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:57:21 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:57:21 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:57:21 tav has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:57:21 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:57:21 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:57:50 tomc (lambda@modem-2878.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 20:57:50 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:57:50 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 20:57:50 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 20:57:54 You do not have AutoOp access to [#swhack] 20:58:00 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 20:58:00 tansaku (~sam@n146-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 20:58:42 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:58:44 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 20:58:48 tansaku (~sam@n146-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 21:01:05 tav (~tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:05:15 wow, all these software updates are *big* 21:08:58 sbp (~sean@m71-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:13:13 * sbp waves 21:14:23 hi 21:15:03 Hi Tom 21:15:19 "Yes it's a drag, my it's a drag" 21:15:28 * sbp is listening to SIBLY, again 21:15:58 * sbp should learn a few more bits of it 21:25:41 Go Gerald:- 21:25:42 [[[ 21:25:42 It's really annoying that whenever I login to my air canada 21:25:42 account, your web site resizes my browser window to the maximum 21:25:42 size of my desktop. I don't want it that big; if I did, I would 21:25:42 resize it myself. 21:26:05 ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/0088 21:26:22 * sbp learned a couple of bits in SIBLY, and now plays the No Quarter version 21:28:07 s/of/more/ 21:28:21 blargh, grammar bad 21:35:59 * sbp plays BOE 21:41:06 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m792-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 21:41:22 sbp (~sean@m792-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:00:57 heh, Homer: Go nuts. 22:01:34 hazmat, that's anarchy.,.. or misszope 22:05:52 BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 22:07:12 Hello 22:20:38 BenSw has quit ("Bye") 22:22:10 BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 22:35:57 gotta run 22:38:03 tomc has quit (Connection timed out) 22:45:23 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 22:48:42 tansaku (~sam@n146-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:11:57 tomc (lambda@modem-1435.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 23:49:48 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m658-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 23:50:07 sbp (~sean@m658-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 2002-01-19.txt0100644000014300000000000003750607422404152011700 0ustar nobodyroot00:02:28 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m30-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 00:02:45 sbp (~sean@m30-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:43:57 @ http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/2002/01/19.html#a30 00:44:03 A: Bring It On Home from sbp 00:44:13 A:|School Is Terrible 00:44:14 titled item A 00:45:35 A::I was bound to vent this one day. In fact, I restrained myself quite a bit - notwithstanding the fact that I have obviated this for a long time due to Aaron's excellent [http://swartzfam.com/aaron/school/|Schoolyard Subversion] coverage 00:45:36 commented item A 00:46:10 A::"""whilst I am no longer a physical, moral, and intellectual prisoner, I pity all of those that are, and I can only say this: do anything that you can to get out of it. You can make a change - don't give up.""" 00:46:10 commented item A 00:49:11 rillian has quit ("errand") 00:49:16 argh, liberalist is a noun... 01:30:32 tomc has quit (Connection timed out) 02:02:15 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m797-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:02:33 sbp (~sean@m797-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:31:51 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m340-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:32:09 sbp (~sean@m340-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:36:16 Ooh, I wonder if Aaron has his speakers turned on? 02:36:31 AaronSw Hi 02:36:40 AaronSw Hi 02:36:41 AaronSw Hi 02:36:42 AaronSw Hi 02:37:44 If so, that'd be classy - I can infuriate him; just indirectly 02:38:06 AaronSw Hi 02:38:10 AaronSw Hi 02:38:10 AaronSw Hi 02:38:11 AaronSw Hi 02:38:11 AaronSw Hi 02:38:12 AaronSw Hi 02:38:13 AaronSw Hi 02:38:13 AaronSw Hi 02:38:15 AaronSw Hi 02:38:17 AaronSw Hi 02:38:19 yay it works 02:38:55 i turned the speakers up so it works 02:39:56 I wunder if my speling wil foks his tekst 2 voyse deeley 02:41:32 It would have a buggery of a figgery trying to skapwaddle words like "phenky" 02:42:43 argh! 02:42:44 Heh, if I sent messages with "AaronSw" in them at well timed intervals, I might be able to play a tune on his computer 02:44:20 :-) 02:44:44 What were you trying to play? 02:45:03 ya maybe i should put AaronSw in all my long and long long L33T p|-|/-\T L00t ya maybe i should put AaronSw in all my long and long long L33T p|-|/-\T L00t ya maybe i should put AaronSw in all my long and long long L33T p|-|/-\T L00t ya maybe i should put AaronSw in all my long and long long L33T p|-|/-\T L00t 02:48:05 I love hearing L33T /\/\&$$/-\G3Z on AaronSw (0/\/\P 02:48:30 lol (aaronsw) 02:49:13 how does it pronounce AaronSw? 02:49:28 Ya you need to put AaronSw in messages to get thm n da spkrs 02:49:41 Ah 02:49:52 it prononces AaronSw: Aaron swa 02:49:58 lol 02:50:24 myby i shd msspel for nce kils 02:50:30 I think it should be "Aaron's double u" 02:50:46 yes, vats a gud idear 02:50:53 myby i shd msspel for nce kils 02:50:54 Aaronsw 02:51:03 mspell Aaronsw 02:51:22 Bah! aaronsw's mom turned off his spkrs 02:52:03 mybi i shd tk mspeld al nit 02:52:11 "Bah" indeed! 02:52:19 BenSw has changed the topic to: Lt us mspell 02:53:11 How's Vorpal getting along? 02:54:16 BenSw has changed the topic to: THIS TOPIC IS INTETIONLI MISSPELLED 02:54:26 duno 02:55:28 hws yr cmp doin? 02:55:40 sbp has changed the topic to: Bad spellers of the world untie! 02:56:29 Aronsw is sttin nxt to me nd is chkin me if i do smtin rng 02:56:49 * BenSw gts chked by aronsw 02:56:57 I guess he'll thwap you if you do 02:57:06 chked? checked? 02:57:16 choked 02:57:24 ah 02:58:03 hmr: 20 $ al I wnted ws a pent 02:58:15 lol 02:59:54 brn: 20 $ cn by mny penuts 03:00:31 hmr: xpln hw 03:00:51 sbp do nxt ln 03:02:26 sbp mspl tdy 03:27:33 were singn http://www.gnu.org/fun/humor.html#Music 03:34:56 Homer's brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services 03:34:58 Homer: Woohoo! 03:35:43 Bh! mspl it 03:37:26 Make me 03:37:50 Gotta go nw 03:38:25 BenSw has quit ("mspl tdy") 03:38:25 O.K., c'ya 04:53:14 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:01:32 sbp (~sean@m416-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:41:35 .http://infomesh.net/2001/10/spew.txt 05:41:37 Homer: Woohoo! 06:13:29 Gotta run 06:13:31 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 08:13:44 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:39:01 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:21:18 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:46:20 tansaku (~sam@n146-201.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:25:30 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:47:52 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:26:22 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:48:58 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:28:00 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:09:50 tav has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:11:00 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 17:24:42 tomc (lambda@modem-4070.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 17:42:20 sbp (~sean@m720-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:46:14 * sbp should go through Patrick's... proposals 17:49:07 thc (lambda@modem-1867.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 17:50:43 Odd: """Note that the URI scheme prefix "auth:" is considered to be a valid URI denoting this URI scheme, though it is not itself a valid URI according to this URI scheme.""" 17:50:45 Hi THC 17:51:05 I'm just going through Patrick Stickler's UR* proposals 17:51:45 hello 17:51:48 cf. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2002Jan/0023 17:52:36 tansaku (~sam@n146-193.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:53:05 * sbp should go through the Taxonomy document first - even though it was presented quite a while ago 17:54:29 tomc has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:54:54 thc is now known as tomc 17:56:32 heh, heh: """URPs do not allow fragment identifiers and there is no such thing as a "URP Reference"""" 17:58:02 data:text/html,%3Chtml%20xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ew3%2Eorg%2F1999%2Fxhtml%22%3E%0D%0A%3Chead%3E%3Ctitle%2F%3E%3C%2Fhead%3E%0D%0A%3Cbody%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%20id%3D%22blargh%22%2F%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fbody%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fhtml%3E 17:58:30 I'm sure that that can have data:text/html,%3Chtml%20xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ew3%2Eorg%2F1999%2Fxhtml%22%3E%0D%0A%3Chead%3E%3Ctitle%2F%3E%3C%2Fhead%3E%0D%0A%3Cbody%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%20id%3D%22blargh%22%2F%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fbody%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fhtml%3E#blargh as a meaningful URP-ref 18:02:09 Mwahahaha! He referenced ESL as a URV 18:02:24 I wonder what would happen if I submitted it as a URN? Heh, heh 18:09:33 Well, his proposals are only semi-nutty, so I'm quite impressed 18:09:52 They're certainly not as nutty as some of the URI related things that I've proposed over the years 18:10:29 "hrn:" is a bit smegged because it allows domain names to be used for the authority component 18:10:40 I think MM already pointed out that that isn't persistent 18:10:52 Of course, it could be fixed by adding a date component 18:11:02 then it would end up looking like TAG 18:11:18 which is a URT (I think) under this taxonomy :-) 18:13:05 Seemed fairly reasonable. 18:14:12 well, it's a bit odd that way. People will be asking him what group their new schemes belong to, every time one is invented :-) 18:15:09 weren't the groupss distinct enough for schemes to be easily classified? 18:17:41 I'm not sure. But it doesn't look like it, if HRN/TAG are going to be misplaced 18:21:18 heh, can a QName URI be used as the base of a QName? Of course, it can, so you'd end up with:- 18:21:38 qname:name:qname:firstname:http://blargh.org/ns 18:21:48 ooh, and what about "#" 18:22:22 * sbp jumps 18:22:25 """Thanks to Sean Palmer (sean@mysterylights.com) for his insightful comments and suggestions regarding earlier formulations of this URI scheme and for suggesting the preservation of contextual information differentiating elements, global attributes, and per-element attributes.""" 18:22:40 oh yeah, I do recall that 18:23:07 ah, he added:- 18:23:07 globalAttr = "@" attribute 18:23:07 perElementAttr = element "@" attribute 18:23:41 that is actually encouraging - getting a decent taxonomy for namespace partions is a big thing on my TODO list 18:25:31 URI URI: a string would probably do. I like DanC's "how Perl programmers would handle datatypes" 18:27:08 Huh?: """This provides a more robust and safe treatment of unqualified names than the 'online:' or 'genid:' treatments employed by most RDF systems to date.""" 18:27:11 tomc is now known as tomc|food 18:27:15 (in voc:) 18:27:25 So voc: is for anon nodes? 19:22:34 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:36:03 tomc|food has quit (Connection timed out) 19:58:26 sbp (~sean@m746-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:16:08 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m879-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:16:26 sbp (~sean@m879-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:22:56 tansaku has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:23:04 * sbp wonders about a URI stamped tab-delimited data format 20:24:07 USTDD = uri '\n' line+; line = [ data '\t' ]+ '\n' 20:26:18 data = [^\t\n]* 20:26:54 dunno about i18n, although that's important 20:28:43 then, all of the data "items" would be addressable using a QName [ a :DataItem; :ns ; :name "data" ] . 20:32:29 Heh, I could come up with a new URP for it: ustdd:data:http://blargh.org/# 20:33:09 * sbp decides that uri really should be *URI*, and not URI-Reference 20:33:34 Hmm... should it be fixed column width? 20:39:32 that would shift it up Chomsky's hierarchy, though 20:45:01 whilst I'm defining new data formats, it'd be nice to have a kind-of RDF, but with as many columns as you want 20:45:26 doc = prefix+ statement+ 20:46:01 prefix = "'" pre "' " uri-view "\n" 20:46:30 statement = QName | URI-view | Literal 20:46:54 oops 20:47:28 statement = [ [ QName | URI-view | Literal ] "\t" ]+ "\n" 20:47:34 or something or other 21:00:07 the problem with RDF is that >2-ary relations into triples generates a lot more data 21:09:13 ° 21:31:54 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m371-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:32:12 sbp (~sean@m371-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:36:28 * sbp finds that there's a Geocache astonishingly near him 21:36:28 even more remarkably, there are pictures of the location online, and I recognize it. I might walk there one day and poke about for it! :-) 21:59:07 tansaku (~sam@n144-156.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 22:08:56 SeanP (sbp@m371-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:09:03 * SeanP tries XChat for Windows 22:16:27 SeanP has left #swhack 22:16:41 SeanP (sbp@m371-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:21:33 SeanP has quit ("Client Exiting") 22:31:01 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m752-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 22:31:19 sbp (~sean@m752-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:38:32 BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 22:38:41 Hi Ben 22:38:54 Hello 22:55:50 Whats up? 22:58:33 heh, heh:- 22:58:33 [[[ 22:58:34 LUKE: But how will I know why Python is better than Perl? 22:58:34 YODA: You will know. When your code you try to read six months from 22:58:34 now. 22:58:42 ]]] - http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#yoda 23:02:32 lol 23:02:50 sbp have you seen 'Antitrust'? 23:24:39 URI? 23:37:34 Its a movie 23:39:06 BenSw has quit ("monkey") 23:40:02 .imdb antitrust 23:40:03 http://www.imdb.com/M/title-substring?&type=fuzzy&title=antitrust 23:40:04 * AaronSw waves 23:40:34 Man, you guys had some fun with my nick last night. 23:43:31 Heh, it pronounces this beautifully: 23:43:31 I wunder if my speling wil foks his tekst 2 voyse deeley 23:43:31 It would have a buggery of a figgery trying to skapwaddle words like "phenky" 23:43:31 yes, vats a gud idear 23:48:05 ooh, we should have gone and found that geocache while we were at your house. 23:48:38 so, sbp, what do I say to people when they ask me what I think of Stickler's proposals. 23:49:58 Heh. Hi there Aaron 23:50:09 small burst of activity, there? 23:50:13 Heh, yeah. 23:50:20 unloading a day's worth of irc. 23:50:47 Stickler: not sure, yet. I started to draft an email, but got a bit distracted, and now I don't want to pick it up again 23:50:59 Did you see my subversive rant? 23:51:03 i figure you can be my thinking processor, and i can be your walking-thingamajig. together, we'll be unstopable! 23:51:06 subversive: not yet... 23:51:18 well, i saw it but haven't read it 23:51:36 heh, good idea. Except I was thinking of you and my processor and rover 23:51:58 meanwhile, I'll just sit indoors and watch The Simpsons 23:52:35 Heh, you're not getting off so easy! 23:52:50 Aw... 23:53:01 I just need to get an IRC implant. 23:53:35 heh, this is what happened to my rant to Patrick:- 23:53:38 [[[ 23:53:38 Michael already commented that using a domain name for the authority 23:53:39 component is not a good idea, but I'd like to take that further. Using 23:53:39 a UUID is alright, 23:53:39 0200201071518573025infomesh.net 23:53:40 ]]] 23:53:59 heh! 23:54:00 as you can see, I started thinking about creating a new UUID syntax, and it went off at a tangent from there 23:54:13 * AaronSw registers 0200201071518573025infomesh.net 23:54:19 heh, heh 23:54:49 I figured out how to solve my procmail problem. The answer was not to use procmail generally. 23:55:06 Hmm... good solution 23:55:11 What's "procmail"? 23:55:14 * sbp does a Linus 23:55:18 a Linus? 23:55:47 procmail is a mail processor. It lets you do server-side filtering and stuff like that. 23:55:47 yeah, sure. Charlie Brown would do something good, and Linus would be all, "ooh, that's really clever, Charlie Brown. Yes, sir!" 23:56:01 and then he'd ask him what on earth he just did 23:56:18 as in "process mail" 23:56:27 lol: http://snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/images/peanuts20020112187219.gif 23:56:48 "an impassioned plea against the stamp act" 23:56:50 * sbp does the usual cartoon-catch-up 23:57:02 how piggy! 23:58:16 Patricia Reichardt? 23:58:33 the dress code 23:59:08 oops: my question was unrelated to your statement 23:59:24 I didn't know (until now) that that was Peppermint Patty's real name 23:59:32 8/22/66 (actual name Patricia Reichardt) 23:59:38 - http://www.peanutscollectorclub.com/debuts.html 2002-01-20.txt0100644000014300000000000011426607422654234011677 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:04 whereas this strip is from '72 00:00:27 Mmmkay 00:00:34 .google "Patricia Reichardt" 00:00:35 "Patricia Reichardt": http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/an/surnames.mcbeth 00:01:17 only 41 results on the entire Web! 00:01:24 42 with this Webpage 00:01:38 44 considering the three versions of it 00:01:43 aha! That's the meaning of the Universe! We're the 42nd page to utter Peppermint Patty's real name 00:01:54 oh, you had to go and spoil it, didn't you? 00:02:07 we're still the 42nd page. 00:02:20 (just the 43rd and 44th too) 00:02:23 I suppose. Pff 00:02:40 But we won't know *which* version is the 42nd 00:03:17 the txt version, since it's listed first 00:03:45 Oh well. At least if we say "Patricia Reichardt" a few more times, we'll be somewhere near the top. Oh, not to mention Snnop, Peanuts, and Charlie Brown. Which I just did 00:03:59 snnop? 00:04:05 .google snnop 00:04:06 snnop: http://www.draculina.com/snoopdog.htm 00:04:23 Snnop? Hrm 00:04:25 Snoopy 00:04:50 * sbp apologizes to ol' Snoop 00:05:23 argh, we're split over 19/20! that meaks it even worse 00:05:32 19/20? 00:05:33 meaks? What is it with my typing tonight? 00:05:39 oh, good point 00:06:45 heh: rdf interest - term frequency count (300 msgs) 00:07:01 289 : uri 00:07:37 * sbp wonders what the smeg that is 00:08:03 hmm 00:08:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/0090 00:08:21 this baffles me: 151 : aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa way 00:08:26 lol 00:10:18 and with 5 mentions comes l0voij4ncjxive1mpjxirufepg0kpe1fveegy29udgvudd0idgv4dc9odg1soybjagfyc2v0pwdi 00:11:40 .google l0voij4ncjxive1mpjxirufepg0kpe1fveegy29udgvudd0idgv4dc9odg1soybjagfyc2v0pwdi 00:11:40 l0voij4ncjxive1mpjxirufepg0kpe1fveegy29udgvudd0idgv4dc9odg1soybjagfyc2v0pwdi: http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/help-cgicc/2000-August.txt 00:11:41 while odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4odg4 has 6 00:11:41 a mystery 00:11:41 it's a base encoded line of some sort 00:11:41 .py import base64 00:11:41 .py import base64 00:11:48 TypeError: decode() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given) 00:11:52 what's the second? 00:12:11 I doubt it: no capital letters 00:12:28 danbri decapitalized it 00:13:02 it's really: 00:13:04 L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdi 00:13:25 ah 00:14:12 aha! 00:14:15 it's: '/EN">\r\n\r\n ... 00:38:41 well here's my metaphor thingy (tav will have to read it when he gets back): 00:38:51 in the middle is the amorphous blob, the Plex. 00:39:12 above are write operations and below are read operations 00:39:34 so above we have content, commerce and communication 00:39:49 content: photos, music, movies 00:39:52 commerce: ebay, etc. 00:40:06 communications: rss, irc, email 00:40:20 below is push and pull or proactive and reactive 00:41:11 pull has things like find and query 00:41:18 push is your information flow 00:41:23 [end] 00:46:04 wow, a pretty and (nearly -- missing some alt tags) valid Radio blog: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001158/ 00:46:09 aron never place processor recent relationship sean stanford written 00:46:15 WTF? 00:46:21 aron? 00:46:40 Aaron said, "never place a processor in a recent relationship, Sean - Stanford has written" 00:46:51 heh 00:46:59 yeah, I was deleting the "a" to insert an "A", and must have pressed \n somehow 00:47:18 why the WTF? 00:48:17 the valid theme is even downloadable 00:48:35 I'm not quite sure how I activated the '/n' button 00:48:44 hmm 00:48:48 s%/n%\n% 00:49:37 I occasionally brush a little "Enter" key without realising 00:49:51 stuck on the bottom right, where my hand dithers 00:50:21 don't delay, do: "don't dither, dumbwad" 00:51:31 I hope I never say "dumbwad" ever. 00:51:50 it's a perfectly valid word 00:52:00 in what language? 00:52:21 English. 39 instances according to Google. more than 10 makes it count as a word, in my book 00:52:33 s/English/Googlian/ 00:52:43 :o) 00:53:13 it sounds rather... American. 00:53:19 actually, the word was used on The Simpsons, and therefore it is most certainly a word 00:53:33 only 39? 00:53:49 yeah, and I'm the tenth result for it 00:53:59 rather, I'm respionsible for the tenth result 00:54:02 *shudder* 00:54:08 ugh, ya dumbwad. I mean 00:54:08 enabling access to Freenet without downloading any crud, through HTTP! 00:54:14 - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-11-16.txt 00:54:18 :o) 00:55:30 one day it'll be in the OED, y'know 00:56:00 marked "American" 00:56:08 And Aaron will go alongside Lenny from The Simpsons as being one of the first people in recorded history to have been called a "dumbwad" 00:56:17 aren't you proud, Aaron? 00:56:26 Indeed. I always wanted to be in the OED. 00:56:31 Heh, heh, heh 00:56:51 * sbp is probably somewhere under idiot 00:57:10 Aaron: Look, look! I'm in the OED! 00:57:10 Other: Under what word? 00:57:10 Aaron: Dumbwad. 00:57:20 lol! 00:58:18 That'd be something to put on your CV 00:59:08 "I am a master of the English language, and am listed in the Oxford English Dictionary under the word 'dumbwad'" 00:59:32 Indeed. 01:00:00 I wonder when "phenomic" will get in? 01:00:07 Morbus used it in his article 01:00:50 .google phenomic 01:00:51 phenomic: http://www.phenomic.de 01:00:57 Pff 01:01:21 wha?! 01:01:29 heh: arseholism! How phenomic 01:01:38 - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-24.txt 01:01:38 "phenomic game develpment"... hmm 01:02:01 212 instances, so far 01:02:31 that's way more than dumbwad 01:02:44 heh, heh 01:02:58 yeah. But some of them are in odd-senses: http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/docs/ela/ela_fold.html 01:03:07 I wonder what the author of that document meant? 01:03:13 Phenomic seems like a nice word. 01:03:22 What's it mean? 01:03:38 It's an ajective meaning "a nice word", effectively. 01:03:40 [[[ 01:03:42 phenomic /fen.'om.ik/ adj. 01:03:42 (Of a word) the quality of being pleasant to say, or of being memorable in some way. Especially a word which has been invented for this purpose. 01:03:46 ]]] - http://infomesh.net/2001/phenomic/ 01:04:31 :o) 01:04:43 * sbp notes that the other document probably meant "phonemic" 01:05:11 which is hillarious, considering that it's under "Spelling Inventory" 01:05:11 ... 01:05:32 * AaronSw giggles 01:05:33 * sbp tries to find someone to mail the mistake to 01:05:47 yeah, get them out of our googles 01:06:23 * sbp finds http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/cgi-bin/forum/wwwboard.cgi 01:07:01 argh, they use POST 01:07:22 ugh, that's really terrible 01:08:14 Isn't POST nice? 01:08:52 of course not. How am I supposed to reference the pages? 01:09:00 BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:10:47 Oh. Of course :) 01:11:22 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m376-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:11:43 sbp (~sean@m376-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:13:21 wb 01:13:36 wb 01:14:33 ty 01:16:24 Ooh, nice: http://radio.weblogs.com/0101156/opml_html.xml 01:16:28 np 01:16:37 there, i give in 01:19:59 dinner 01:21:21 enjoy 01:28:04 * sbp posts a message to the WWW Board, but can't refer to it 01:28:40 CygBot (~sbp@m376-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:29:03 $ lynx http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/cgi-bin/forum/wwwboard.cgi -dump -source | grep -i Sean 01:29:07 > [end] 01:29:52 $ lynx http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/cgi-bin/forum/wwwboard.cgi -dump 01:29:55 > Discussion Area 01:29:56 > 01:29:57 > [Select A Subject.........................] ____________________ 01:29:58 > Search 01:29:59 > 01:30:00 > Please choose one of the following areas 01:30:01 > [...] 01:30:04 odd 01:30:28 oh, of course... I can't even navigate to the damn message menu! Oh, that's just stupid 01:31:08 yay cygbot what fun! 01:34:45 $ lynx Http://rangersofdereth.dyndns.org/boar/index.php 01:36:46 -dump? 01:37:16 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m419-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:37:35 sbp (~sean@m419-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:38:25 * sbp notes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/0092 and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/0093 01:43:43 CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m419-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:51:56 man, i have some really old emails in my inbox 02:00:33 BenSw has quit ("goin to play FFX") 02:22:48 wow, PyEdit is rather neat. I'm actually able to edit the source to come up with a text editor that I pretty much like 02:22:59 and it's only about 25KB 02:23:20 nice... what sort of GUI? 02:23:25 uri? 02:23:41 http://nickel.as.arizona.edu/~barg/pp2e/examples/pp2e/gui/texted~1/texted~1.py 02:23:43 TKInter 02:25:50 is this proper XSLT syntax? 02:25:51 02:26:38 * sbp accidentally reverses the colors 02:26:45 yes, it is 02:27:08 well, it's easier that 02:27:12 s/that/than/ 02:27:20 yeah, that's what i was replacing 02:27:27 a shorter cuter version 02:30:28 how's this: http://www.w3.org/2000/06/webdata/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0100663%2Fgems%2Frenderopml.xml&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0100663%2Fgems%2FmySubscriptions.opml 02:32:02 it won't load 02:32:11 what do you mean? 02:32:36 I mean that when i go to that URI, I get "can't connect" 02:32:56 you can't connect to w3.org? 02:33:26 weird. No, I can't 02:34:04 odd 02:40:11 lol: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001123/2002/01/10.html#a3 02:40:31 that's really pretty, actually. looks better than a GIF. 02:41:41 thc (lambda@modem-3692.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 02:43:16 Hee! http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_448459356 02:43:19 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m495-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:43:38 sbp (~sean@m495-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:43:40 Wes: "It's a regular soap opera!" 02:43:47 http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_448459356 for sbp 02:45:29 lol! 02:47:47 Zing! "With that logic I have to wonder if part of your problem can be found by looking in a mirror." 02:48:02 tomc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:49:27 * sbp decides to start writing an editor from scratch 02:49:46 thc is now known as tomc 02:49:50 wb 02:50:13 lol ty 02:50:19 lol/ 02:50:23 er... 02:50:24 lol? 02:50:53 I was indicating vague amusement 02:51:07 :-) 02:51:11 aha 02:51:15 i bet tomc expected that only someone with a piss-poor connection like sbp would be subject to the wb treatment. 02:51:22 lol 02:51:31 :o) 02:52:18 well he wbed after I changed nick, I was sorta back awhile ago 02:52:39 fortune: "Americans are people who insist on living in the present, tense." 02:52:46 Anyway, my connection is very piss-poor! 02:53:46 *breathe* :) 02:53:57 .sig: "My Uncle Went To The Misty Mountains And All I got Was This Stupid Ring." 02:54:25 hehehe :-) 02:54:30 heh 03:00:12 man, i am way behind on my email. i got tons of messages from 2000 03:08:00 oops, looks like these 2000 messages are a mistake 03:08:57 well, that takes care of 1203/2032 messages in my inbox 03:19:32 * sbp appears to have a working 15.6KB text editor 03:19:52 not from scratch, i guess 03:19:55 er... 17.6KB 03:19:56 nope 03:20:03 * AaronSw edits his IEEE article 03:20:03 pfft! 03:20:06 I just tried to fix PyEdit 03:20:27 the PyEdit code is simple, but they did it really weirdly 03:20:37 hmm, like what? 03:21:08 Well they didn't name any of the variables after me, to start 03:21:35 well, they use really annoying code conventions, make classes that call one another in annoying patterns, forx X import *, odd commenting syntax, and so on 03:21:41 heh, where's that from? 03:21:54 fiction 03:21:56 nowhere... when someone takes too long to answer i make up funny things for them to say 03:22:04 ah 03:22:18 I do that, it's amusing :o) 03:22:26 I suck too 03:22:36 oh damn, that means I must also suck 03:22:45 "make classes that call one another in annoying patterns" Hmm, where have I seen that before? sbp 03:22:58 yeah. Well, I learned... 03:23:03 * tomc smiles and nods 03:23:25 Arrgh, why does Hendler get his photo at the top of my article? 03:26:54 via mind control, he wrote the article 03:27:26 Unlikely. 03:27:43 He's got much better uses for mind control. ;-) 03:28:11 Man, qmail's virtualdomains rock. When I get vorpal all set up you'll be able to email me at 084132d845120d845120sed84512sd8120dxc845120erdf@aaronsw.com. 03:29:02 From now on, I'll give email address like: httpblogspacecomswhackweblogs20020120@aaronsw.com 03:29:08 (for spammers, of course) 03:30:08 heh, heh 03:31:34 aargh. the move didn't work. 03:39:05 -- 03:39:07 Calling all design geeks! For an upcoming book on CSS web design, Christopher Schmitt of Babble List seeks the URLs of sites that are: (1) well­designed; (2) CSS and (X)HTML­compliant. Chris is looking for sites that are ³beyond minimalist in style and are pushing the boundaries.² Got a site like that? Send Chris a note about it. 03:39:18 cssdesign@christopher.org 03:39:29 -- http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0102d.html#everythingbutthegirl 03:41:00 WTF! 03:41:07 * AaronSw hears really loud spaceship noises overhead 03:44:23 heh, cool 03:44:29 look out the window 03:47:19 I did, that's how I heard it. 03:47:23 Couldn't see anything tho. 03:47:27 weird 03:47:53 It went like: blibbleblibbleblibblekpstfffffffft. where the krspffffffffft sounded like a plane taking off or something. 03:48:10 heh! http://www.tantek.com/CSS/Examples/polygons.html 03:48:12 tomc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:48:17 Heh. Riveting account there, Aaron 03:48:31 * sbp is rather impressed with this editor 03:48:49 more CSS madness! http://www.tantek.com/ 03:48:53 Hmm... they don't quite style right 03:49:03 your browser must suck then 03:49:26 i think tantek must be the only person who knows how to make circles out of plain CSS. 03:49:27 IE6 03:49:34 yeah. He scares me 03:49:49 He's also one of the few guys who writes the specs and the browsers. 03:50:09 He's very nice, met him at the Plenary. (Looked a bit like a borg with all his gear on, tho.) 03:50:36 down to 16KB: hooray! 03:50:55 a few bugs to sort out... 03:52:12 problem is, I can't find the license for PyEdit 03:53:00 Cool, Dave reads my blog. 04:02:38 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m523-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 04:02:56 sbp (~sean@m523-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:12:24 lun (nobody@cn386793-a.wall1.pa.home.com) has joined #swhack 04:13:26 Hi lun 04:13:59 heya 04:14:21 so... what's this channel all about? 04:15:11 spelling, phenomics, semantic web, python, crypto, elephants, weblogging, rdf 04:15:34 okay 04:18:15 what brings you here? 04:18:48 dunno 04:18:49 hmm, where should I put the simpsons CGI... 04:18:58 I'm just checking out freshmeat's ircd 04:21:24 Uh huh 04:21:34 ooh, you're going to put the Simpsons CGI up? 04:21:41 Of course. 04:21:49 cool 04:22:18 anyone get snow today? 04:22:55 Aaron made a snowman recently 04:23:17 Yeah, I was quite surprised. 04:23:33 hehe 04:23:37 how's the weather in PA? 04:23:42 we got like, 3 inches 04:23:46 cold 04:24:26 .google silicon pines assisted computing facility 04:24:27 silicon pines assisted computing facility: http://www.satirewire.com/features/siliconpines/acf.shtml 04:24:32 ^ funny 04:26:41 * sbp really likes editor.py 04:26:51 put it on the web then 04:27:36 lun has quit ("BitchX-1.0c18 -- just do it.") 04:28:49 simpsons.py should support frasier and all the other shows you watch. 04:30:06 !playing 04:30:10 !nowplaying 04:30:12 hmm 04:30:22 !playing 04:30:44 Now Playing: "Pepper", Butthole Surfers 04:31:00 Now Playing "Weird Revolution", Butthole Surfers 04:31:47 I know what time Frasier is on. That's very pre-defined, and rarely changes 04:32:12 I can't put editor.py on the Web until I know the license for PyEdit 04:32:21 .google PyEdit license 04:32:23 PyEdit license: http://www.worldforge.org/website/helpdesk/toolshelp/cvs-modules 04:32:43 ugh, Zope sucks 04:32:49 hmmwhy's that? 04:33:24 I assume if it's example code, it's under some reasonable licese. 04:33:33 err license 04:33:40 where reasonable means free software 04:33:53 aha! """The above work is covered by the GNU Free Documentation License and 04:33:53 GNU Public License unless explicitly stated otherwise by the author. 04:33:54 """ 04:34:00 hooray! 04:34:01 nice 04:34:20 thanks to the Google cache... 04:34:34 * sbp tries http://web.alexa.org/*/http://www.worldforge.org/website/helpdesk/toolshelp/cvs-modules 04:35:11 oops, archive.org 04:37:53 argh, so much stuff to do 04:38:37 argh: """We're sorry. We were unable to retrieve the requested data. We may be experiencing technical difficulties and suggest that you try again later.""" - http://web.archive.org/web/20010714040738/http://www.worldforge.org/website/helpdesk/toolshelp/cvs-modules 04:41:35 * sbp invents the term "fableware" 04:46:25 heh 04:46:30 is that what the Plex is? 04:46:30 a 404 is hardly the fault of zope 04:47:05 wow, some guy I've never heard of gave $300 to MB. 04:47:08 no, but the crapness of the 404 result is :-) 04:47:16 musicbrainz ? 04:47:24 Mark Bernstein? 04:47:24 yeah 04:47:27 musicbrainz 04:47:36 Mark Baker? 04:47:46 Zope also puts in some crazy HTTP headers. 04:47:46 never heard of him 04:54:22 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 04:55:35 BenSwX has quit (Client Quit) 05:08:18 * sbp wonders how to change the TK icon 05:12:13 * sbp adds a function to load from the Web 05:14:27 Hmm, why is my name "Aaron Swartz,,," 05:14:38 pardon? 05:15:08 on my machine 05:15:42 for example, in /etc/passwd: 05:15:44 aaronsw:x:1000:1000:Aaron Swartz,,,:/home/aaronsw:/bin/bash 05:15:50 Ugh 05:16:20 Kick ass! It opened a file from the Web 05:16:27 neat! 05:16:48 now all I need to do is get it saving over the Web... that'll be so cool 05:19:29 AaronSw: there are comma-seperated fields for phone numbers and room number 05:19:44 man chfn 05:20:11 ah, tx 05:22:22 * sbp really really likes editor.py now - is considering using it instead of Notepad 05:23:56 BenSw (~bensw@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #Swhack 05:24:09 hello 05:24:15 Hi there 05:24:19 whats up 05:24:32 writing a text editor 05:24:41 sbp, we need a uri! 05:24:44 Heh, heh, heh 05:24:46 bensw is logging in from vorpal 05:24:59 * sbp is still hacking it 05:25:03 Vorpal: neat 05:25:11 ach I hate bitchX, i can only be in one channel 05:25:16 ooh, I could hook it up with QuickPut and browser.py 05:25:26 HyperText would be quite tricky, though, I guess 05:25:38 * BenSw takes out a katakana and slices AaronSw and levels, hes level 5 05:25:41 lol 05:25:42 bitchX is a bitch 05:25:53 ya it is 05:26:14 * BenSw takes a AK47 and blasts AaronSw to death 05:26:36 sbp, please... a uri! 05:28:19 Ugh, I can't stand right-and-left-justified email 05:28:38 * BenSw grants sbp playerhood becoming a level 1 swordsman 05:29:23 * sbp edits editor.py using itself 05:30:22 whyd you join sbp 05:30:45 I'm always in #sbp 05:30:51 heh 05:38:16 * sbp gets an odd error when cloning a document 05:40:49 TclError: unknown option "-parent" 05:42:10 oh, duh 05:42:46 ooh, that went disasterously wrong 05:43:01 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:44:13 that'll probably have to do for now. It's 13.8KB 05:44:49 notepad.exe is 52KB 05:44:58 heh 05:45:03 go on, put it on the web 05:45:05 and it buggers up \r and can't open from the Web :-) 05:46:00 BenSw has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:46:16 hey all 05:46:20 Hi there 05:46:42 haven't been on irc much recently 05:46:47 hey GabeW 05:46:52 setting up my new server today 05:47:13 I tried taking notes in n3 during a meeting the other day - kind of an interesting effort 05:47:18 oh yeah, the new dell server? 05:47:21 Yeah. 05:47:25 Heh, using mr76? 05:47:31 How'd it go? 05:48:10 well, lots of made up properties and literals as objects ;-) 05:48:21 nothing wrong with that. 05:48:33 you probably mean literals as subjects, tho ;-) 05:49:51 well, it got to the point that I was basically just writing english awkwardly with lots of extra colons ;-) 05:50:06 but thats due in part to my not "thinking breathing sleeping" rdf 05:50:31 Older versions of N3 let you omit the colons. ;-) 05:50:48 nontheless, its a really interesting excercise because you really get to understand all the issues about how to represent ideas and such in rdf 05:50:50 john getsUp quicky. john says "we must be really strategic!". 05:51:05 yeah, doing that sort of thing is fun 05:51:52 * AaronSw plays guess-which-password-i-want with Courier-IMAP 05:52:42 yeah, though, I did find that serializing UML-style diagrams was pretty easy 05:53:48 CygBot (~sbp@m523-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:54:10 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:57:00 ar: problem? 05:57:41 I guess I need to create a userdb... pw2userdb > /etc/courier/userdb? 06:02:29 deltab, i'm getting invalid userid/password errors from courier-imap 06:04:07 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m329-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 06:04:25 sbp (~sean@m329-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:05:19 are you including your domain name in the username at login? 06:06:22 no 06:06:34 which domain name? I tried using the FQDN of the server... 06:07:09 still no luck with that, tho 06:11:15 night all 06:11:20 nite 06:11:31 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 06:23:24 tav, does that zope photo manager you pointed me to resize photos for me 06:23:31 yes 06:23:38 cool 06:23:46 PIL power! 06:23:53 i really dig the photo product 06:23:58 it's cool and fully functional 06:24:30 cool, i'll definitely check that out. 06:24:34 .google zope photo product 06:24:35 zope photo product: http://www.zope.org/Members/Drew/Photo 06:24:48 wrong one 06:24:57 http://www.zope.org/Members/rbickers/Photo 06:24:59 Aaron, can you exec .pyw files on OS X? 06:25:04 pyw? 06:25:10 win... 06:25:10 obviously not 06:26:04 Hmm... can't drag a file onto the window. That's a bit of a bummer 06:38:04 Aaron: what's your favourite programming language (if other than Python)? 06:38:24 hmm, that's a tricky one 06:38:47 def ask(person): 06:39:04 if person.favouriteLanguage != 'Python': print person.favouriteLanguage 06:39:13 ask(Aaron) 06:39:23 None 06:39:29 :-) 06:39:53 I guess that answers the question for myself too... 06:41:14 hmm, anyone want to give me a signed x.509 cert? 06:43:10 nope 06:58:09 top of the evening to ya, gents. 06:58:41 g'evening 07:03:53 Gotta run 07:08:41 cheers 07:09:19 nite hazmat 07:09:25 i better get to sleep too. c'ya all 07:24:02 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:41:21 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:24:44 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:58:04 tansaku2 (~sam@h134-057.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:05:44 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:53:58 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:54:17 tansaku2 (~sam@h134-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:15:35 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:33:44 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:35:47 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:41:23 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:43:39 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 12:56:09 Griggeh (holywell@i.0wn.j00.co.uk) has joined #swhack 12:56:12 helo 12:58:44 Griggeh has left #swhack 13:58:23 AaronSw has changed the topic to: "At my house we celebrate Pi Time (3:14), Double Pi Time (6:28) and Backwards Pi Time (4:13)." 13:58:53 Spam subject: "Have you read the Register?" 13:58:54 Weird. 15:20:56 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:21:25 whoo, compiling courier-imap by hand made it all work 15:21:31 filed a bug report aganst the package 15:25:59 can't believe i wasted all that time 16:14:14 tansaku (~sam@n145-007.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:05:40 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:07:46 sbp (~sean@m86-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:12:21 * sbp hacks on editor.pyw 17:12:41 * AaronSw adds spamassassin to his mail flow 17:12:48 * sbp waves 17:12:54 * AaronSw waves 17:25:49 woo, got it working 17:26:00 Good, good 17:29:50 deltab, would you mind looking it over? 17:30:10 it's a small shell script for .qmail 17:41:04 tomc (lambda@modem-1306.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 17:44:19 Gotta run 18:04:00 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:15:19 tansaku (~sam@n144-029.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 18:45:49 i've got a shell script with a variable in it 18:45:58 the variable contains newlines 18:46:03 how do i print the variable? 18:50:42 heh http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/abs/html/recess-time.html 18:57:56 sbp (~sean@m476-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:58:16 * sbp just watched a great new Simpsons 19:01:04 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:02:19 hmm, now i need a sed script to turn a newline into \n 19:06:03 * AaronSw guesses sed -e 's/$/\n/g' 19:07:29 did it work? 19:07:48 hmm, sort of 19:08:03 the sed script worked, but now the rest of the script doesn't 19:17:45 oh shoot... no i can't use a sed script since it messes with the return value 19:27:04 ok, here's the moment of truth... 19:27:15 (i replaced return code checking with a grep 19:27:21 ... this script is going to be so slow) 19:27:31 :o) so long as it works 19:29:22 blargh! it doesn't work 19:29:45 :o( 19:31:46 odd... somewhere the \n is being turned into a n 19:31:51 but it doesn't happen when I write to a file 19:37:09 ok, that was random 19:37:16 it worked if i used three \s instead of two 19:38:23 well of course 19:38:30 hmm, no wait. that adds a space at the begginning of each line, so that's no good 19:38:49 oh :o( usually you can just stack up backslashes until it works :D 19:40:00 * sbp waves from a break in The Simpsons 19:40:12 hi there 19:40:19 * AaronSw is in shell script madness 19:40:25 Heh, heh 19:40:33 i think i'm going to break down and use python 19:45:59 thc (~finejung@modem-1117.panther.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 19:48:43 hmm, i don't think i can set python's return code 19:56:10 ah, sys.exit 19:57:22 Homer: It's not easy to juggle a pregnant wife and a troubled child, but somehow I managed to fit in eight hours of T.V. a day 19:57:38 heh, another classic episode 19:57:40 Gotta run 20:00:49 tomc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:07:06 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m763-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 20:07:23 sbp (~sean@m763-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:16:26 tansaku (~sam@n144-191.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 20:23:18 thc has quit ("else") 20:23:20 yay! victory at long last 20:40:03 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m396-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 20:40:21 sbp (~sean@m396-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:41:56 ooh, server is almost configured 20:59:52 hello 21:00:51 hey aaronsw you can escape backslash plague by using raw strings ie, arerawstring' 21:01:05 ugh.. xchat completion 21:01:12 arefff' 21:01:12 r'rawstromg'? 21:01:15 yes 21:01:23 yeah, except i was writing bash scripts ;-) 21:01:34 oh... 21:01:36 ;) 21:01:44 i finally gave in and swithced to python and it was so much easier 21:13:29 ugh, machine is going wonky on me... bbiab 21:57:02 Phil Jupitus: "I just got my first computer - I bought an iMac off my mum. She was using it to try to get the hair off of her leg." 21:58:17 Heh. 21:58:28 tav, please, please, please, please fix he templates on plexdev.org 22:00:15 * AaronSw blogs karl's review of R8: "It doesn't validate!!!" 22:01:53 heh: http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0102d.html#science 22:04:32 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m160-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 22:04:50 sbp (~sean@m160-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:10:59 http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/2002/01/20.html#a48 22:19:23 heh: http://www.theonion.com/onion3801/infograph_3801.html 22:25:22 heh: "Wuvs you" 22:26:25 Hooray! I got editing over the Web to work! 22:26:50 I can now open http://infomesh.net/2002/test.html, edit it, click save, and it does the rest for me 22:28:02 is it meant to be 0 bytes long? 22:28:09 hit refresh 22:28:26 cool 22:28:40 heh 22:28:45 * sbp has to add something to let you know when it's saved correctly 22:38:11 * AaronSw heads off to dinner 22:43:41 lol: http://ter.air0day.com/lotr.html 22:43:54 """ 22:43:55 ELIJAH WOOD 22:43:56 Alright, let's go! But only if you 22:43:56 act so moronically that you not 22:43:56 only nearly sabotage our mission 22:43:56 repeatedly, but also drastically 22:43:58 undermine the otherwise serious 22:44:00 tone of the film. 22:44:02 """ 22:44:04 WARNING: spoliers 22:44:06 (duh) 22:49:19 ok, now it's really dinner 22:49:21 c'ya 22:50:00 c'ya 22:55:59 wow, it's so great to be able to save directly over the Web using a decent text editor 23:21:18 sbp: are you using webdav? 23:23:26 webdav? no way 23:23:40 FTP, and I may add HTTP PUT if need be 23:23:52 ah. ok, just curious. 23:24:13 what kind of server is it? 23:24:17 I may add WebDAV if it's a) easy b) there's a market for it 23:24:20 server: IIS 23:24:30 FTP is pretty common... 23:24:40 and HTTP PUT should be used, really 23:25:29 ya, know that zope does all this stuff ;) 23:25:31 * hazmat ducks 23:25:36 ugh 23:25:48 ftp, http put, webdav, etc. 23:25:59 doesn 23:26:02 ugh 23:26:10 it strangely doesn't stop it from sucking, though, does it? 23:26:20 my turn to duck 23:26:22 only for those who want it to. 23:26:37 sure :-) 23:26:47 * hazmat slaps on his zope persistence suit. 23:26:54 I'd rather install Java and use JigSaw 23:27:10 oooo.. low blow. 23:27:15 heh, heh 23:27:18 jigsaw is interesting though. 23:27:39 yeah, it seems quite cool, but it suffers from the same "ease of use" problems as Zope 23:27:55 * sbp still favors Apache 23:32:31 what do you mean by ease of use? 23:33:00 zope seems pretty pointy clicky to me, in terms of setting it up. 23:33:32 I can blast even the neatest of interfaces. Believe me, I'm rather particular. WHy do you think I'm writing my own next editor? There are hundreds of text editors out there, and they all suck 23:34:05 sbp: ttw editor? 23:35:00 no, just a standalone program 23:35:13 I'm using [insert shudder] Tkinter 23:35:49 wow, can i give you some flint? 23:35:56 heh 23:36:16 sbp: ever looked at scintilla? 23:36:17 I know, I know... but all I'm interested in are the results 23:36:27 scintilla: I believe you referred me to that before 23:36:41 doubtful, i don't think i've mentined it in this forum. 23:36:50 its a pretty kickass editing widget/tool. 23:37:00 logster, grep hazmat.*scintilla 23:39:06 I'm logging. I found 2 answers for 'hazmat.*scintilla' 23:39:07 0) 2002-01-20 23:37:00 logster, grep hazmat.*scintilla 23:39:08 1) 2002-01-20 23:36:16 sbp: ever looked at scintilla? 23:39:14 komodo and wing ide both use it as their editing widget 23:39:14 www.scintilla.org 23:39:14 actually black adder does as well. 23:39:14 www.scintilla.org 23:39:14 logster is so speedy these days 23:39:14 i think only the pytgtk bindings are open source though. 23:39:14 s/logster/turtle 23:39:27 Hmm... what was it that I was referred to before, then? 23:40:01 perhaps someone else referred you . 23:40:01 possibly 23:41:17 .google qt and scintilla 23:41:18 qt and scintilla: http://mats.gmd.de/pipermail/pykde/2001-January/000769.html 23:41:37 aha:- 23:41:38 [[[ 23:41:39 00:48:59 Hmm... I really don't like TKinter; can't get into it 23:41:39 01:02:18 OTOH, IDLE is wonderful 23:41:39 01:03:23 wingide rulz 23:42:04 ]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-10.txt 23:42:20 wow, was that only 10 days ago? 23:45:01 the logs never lie ;-) 23:45:46 seriously i would be lost with out wingide... and its emacs key bindings. 23:54:04 * sbp plays Crosstown Traffic 2002-01-21.txt0100644000014300000000000020005407423125545011666 0ustar nobodyroot00:04:14 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m409-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:04:33 sbp (~sean@m409-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:27:09 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:37:46 sbp (~sean@m443-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:45:31 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:45:38 SeanP (~sean@m443-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:46:05 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:46:05 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:46:05 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:50:21 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 00:50:21 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:50:21 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:50:21 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 00:50:25 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 00:52:49 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:52:49 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:52:49 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:54:45 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:54:45 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:54:45 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 00:55:18 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 00:56:33 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 00:56:52 sbp (~sean@m462-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:48 SeanP has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:11:42 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:11:42 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:11:42 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:16:26 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 01:16:26 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:16:26 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:21:57 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 01:24:39 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 01:34:52 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 01:35:56 sbp (~sean@m462-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:36:22 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:36:22 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:38:30 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 01:38:30 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:43:43 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:43:43 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:43:43 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:43:43 tav has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:45:00 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:45:00 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 01:45:00 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 01:45:00 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:46:21 * AaronSw giggles: 01:46:32 I'd rather install Java and use JigSaw 01:46:32 oooo.. low blow. 01:46:40 back, btw 01:48:07 had some splitty fun while i was gone, i see 01:48:35 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m825-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:48:55 sbp (~sean@m825-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:49:29 wb 01:50:30 wow: http://www.dyndns.org/news/2002/perl.php (via fogo) 01:51:34 heh: "The Perl Foundation, a creation of the Yet Another Society" 01:51:49 YAPYA 01:58:52 The Great Justin Mason writes: 01:58:55 "BTW I like swhack, http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ . ghod only knows 01:58:55 how I never found that before. Is there a way to see more than 1 day's 01:58:56 bloggage?" 01:59:48 "Just got a mail about SpamAssassin from Aaron Swartz, noted RDF guy. He runs a very interesting blog called swhack, which I've seen cited before, but never visited for some reason. Now I have, and it's on the bookmarks list ;)" - http://taint.org/2002/01/21/012656a.html 02:00:17 .google "Justin Mason" 02:00:28 "Justin Mason": http://jmason.org 02:00:55 see, I told you we should leave more days displaying 02:01:04 well you figure out how to program it! 02:01:31 Heh, heh 02:03:01 ooh, he wrote a mailman->RSS script: http://taint.org/mmrss/ 02:06:18 thats cool. 02:08:01 lol! the best 404 i've ever seen: http://thcnet.net/error/index.php 02:08:05 @ http://thcnet.net/error/index.php 02:08:14 A: ... 404 Error: Now what??? ... from AaronSw 02:08:30 A:|The Best 404 I've Ever Seen 02:08:32 titled item A 02:08:33 wow, you're right 02:09:03 A::via [FoRK|http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/2001-November/005940.html], Dierken 02:09:03 commented item A 02:09:48 A::"""it all started because I was bored, [...] I decided that it would be really cool if people were toend up at my 404 error page, and instead of the standard dull boring message telling them the obvious, they would get the opening to the all time classic text adventure game, Zork.""" 02:09:49 commented item A 02:10:27 A::so, FoRK led you to Zork? 02:10:28 commented item A 02:13:16 heh 02:13:34 dangers of ignoring your email: webns.net and logicerror.com expire tomorrow 02:13:43 Ugh 02:13:56 * sbp suddenly wonders about mysterylights.com 02:14:16 March 02:14:28 Phew 02:14:36 heh, deltab knows all 02:15:33 it's scary that he knew before I did :-) 02:16:31 phew, renewd 02:16:34 err renewed 02:17:08 if anybody here sorts out their spam and nonspam, please donate it to spamassassin for their GA. 02:17:37 @ http://spamassassin.org/dist/masses/README 02:17:54 B: http://spamassassin.org/dist/masses/README from AaronSw 02:18:16 B:|Donate your spam... to science! 02:18:16 titled item B 02:19:18 B::If you sort out your spam and non-spam emails, please donate them to SpamAssassin for input into their Genetic Algorithm so that they can improve [their rulebase|http://spamassassin.org/tests.html]. 02:19:19 commented item B 02:20:26 B::Hi [Justin|http://taint.org/2002/01/21/012656a.html]! ;) 02:20:27 commented item B 02:24:57 ugh, editor.py is nearly on 15KB... but it can do decent search and replaces now 02:25:21 why do you care so much about size? 02:25:34 * AaronSw wonders how much ArchiverProxy.py is now 02:25:45 I like concise 02:25:59 26kb 02:26:19 do you use it? 02:26:25 the latest is 32K 02:26:34 oh? 02:26:37 bloated by the ad-blocking code 02:26:52 BenSw (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 02:36:40 * sbp updates savetoweb.py to load mappings from a text file 02:38:57 BenSw has quit ("Bye All") 02:49:32 hazmat, did you see mccusker's response to your comment? 02:49:40 http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#17jan02-ground 02:49:53 .time 02:49:53 2002/01/21 02:51:32.1579 Universal 02:51:58 .time 02:51:59 2002/01/21 02:53:37.485 Universal 02:54:00 heh, Zooko: "Heh heh heh. Dilbert is unemployed. It's good that he's keeping in touch with his audience." 02:54:09 lol 02:56:33 OK, we're off to watch MMT. 02:56:56 O.K., c'ya 02:56:56 MMT? 02:57:13 Magical Mystery Tour 02:57:38 Ever heard of it? 02:57:38 ooh, MMT is on? Aw... 02:57:57 No, we rented the DVD. 02:58:20 er... so you're not refering to the film by The Beatles? 02:58:20 ah 02:58:50 Ah, so you know of these "Beatles". I hear they're some new-age surrealist band. 02:59:33 Mr. Burns: Beatles, eh? Oh yes, I seem remember their off-wall catterwalling on the old Sullivan show. What was Ed thinking? 03:00:15 I don't know. 03:00:16 C'ya 03:00:31 c'ya 03:01:04 heh, heh "Number 8, *burp*, Number 8 *burp*, Number 8 *burp*" 03:01:09 heh heh 03:05:04 Homer: Dating back to my schoolgirl days when I painted portrait after portrait of Ringo Starr 03:05:13 Marge: Er, Homer, that's *my* life you're describing 03:05:22 Homer: Pff - I think I remember my own life, Marge 03:21:29 .py 17*2 03:21:29 34 03:27:39 heh 03:28:05 * tav makes a mental not to turn up at sbp's house when in dire need 03:33:59 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m518-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:35:19 sbp (~sean@m518-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:48:43 ugh: "The requested URL cannot be accessed due to a system error on this server." - textify.tcl 03:50:52 wow, both of the TXT2HTML services that I know of have gone down 03:51:03 er... HTML2TXT 04:01:46 * sbp uses browser.py instead 04:01:56 * sbp saves the results to the Web using editor.py 04:03:34 if I had to write an OS, I'd call it os.py 04:09:03 heh 04:09:09 * AaronSw giggles 04:09:12 :-) 04:09:13 wb 04:09:29 We ended up watching Malcom. 04:09:38 Heh. As ya do 04:09:47 textify.tcl works for me. 04:10:04 doesn't work for me. I used MyHTMLParser() instead 04:10:23 Is it still broken? http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl 04:10:30 that's what it's called? MyHTMLParser? 04:10:43 yep: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/textify.tcl?url=http://infomesh.net/ 04:10:47 * AaronSw notes to consult sbp for future naming 04:11:00 MyHTMLParser is a class in browser.py, that I should really refactor out 04:11:37 well, I gave up on trying to give them snazzy names, when I realised that the programs themselves were rather plain 04:12:15 hmm, wonder what's wrong with textify 04:12:43 you know how the old saying goes 04:12:53 the old Zen saying, that is 04:13:06 "when hungry, eat; when thirsty, drink; when bored, build a really cool but plain set of integrated Web applications using Python" 04:13:18 umm, right 04:13:27 something like that, anyway 04:13:48 let me know when you're done with the integrated weblog-music-photo-movie-chatlog-wiki system 04:13:53 i've been waiting a while for that one 04:14:03 y'mean photo.py? 04:14:14 photo.py is part, sure 04:14:31 * sbp notes that MyHTMLParser() is clearly visible in http://infomesh.net/2002/browser.py 04:15:12 ooh, it's quite short really 04:15:47 your code is quite neat, but i don't think you've reached morbus' level of kode-shui 04:16:37 Yeah, he's quite arse-buggeringly, piss-waddlingly, out-of-this-world, gorped out on wacky stars, incredu-fenkily neat, isn't he? 04:17:03 well when you put it that way... 04:17:09 :-) 04:18:52 well, I reckon that I'm just about done with editor.py for releasing 04:20:23 O.K., it's on the Web 04:20:33 download it, try it out, tell me what you think 04:20:43 but it won't work on my machine, will it 04:20:54 doesn't Tkinter work on your machine? 04:21:15 ooh, /editor instead of /editor.py -- tricky! 04:21:24 Mwahahaha! 04:21:54 yeah, because it comes with savetoweb.py too 04:22:22 "A Simple GUI Text Editing Thingy, 2002-01" 04:22:23 NOTE: Not a deeley. 04:22:45 well, I was going to put deeley, but for some reason I typed thingy instead, and I was too lazy to change it 04:23:18 ooh, I could edit it online :-) 04:24:23 oh, cool. someone did build python-tkinter for os x 04:24:30 Thanks, Tony! http://tony.lownds.com/macosx/ 04:29:42 the string module's deprecated btw... 04:30:05 uh huh 04:30:18 yeah, they want you to use 'foo'.bar() instead 04:30:24 uh huh 04:32:30 hmz 04:32:35 strnage 04:32:44 cygwin py2.1.1 has no htmlparser 04:32:57 ehm 04:33:10 no it does 04:33:41 * tav slaps sbp for using py2.2 04:33:48 heh, heh 04:34:30 2.2 r0x0rs man -- get with the time 04:34:30 [[[ 04:34:32 Current location: 04:34:32 File: http://infomesh.net/2002/editor/editor.txt 04:34:32 Line: 1 04:34:32 Col: 0 04:34:32 File text statistics: 04:34:32 Bytes: 13999 04:34:34 Lines: 373 04:34:36 Words: 945 04:34:38 ]]] 04:34:47 where's that from/ 04:34:58 from the "information" window of editor.py 04:35:02 neat 04:35:29 are you installing Tkinter on OS X? 04:35:38 yeah, not having too much luck tho 04:35:46 ugh 04:36:09 if i run it from the terminal i get: 04:36:10 TclError: no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable 04:36:19 so i'm grabbing the os x snapshot 04:39:18 ugh, remind me to reduce the DNS TTLs... i've got too much on the stack 04:41:34 ok, Wish works. 04:41:55 -- 04:41:56 File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.2/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ? 04:41:56 import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk 04:41:56 ImportError: No module named _tkinter 04:41:57 -- 04:42:18 ugh, annoying 04:42:30 did you compile python? 04:42:47 for this i'm using a binary from tony.lownds.com/macosx 04:42:57 he claims to have tkinter support 04:46:19 and the only _tkinter I have looks for an X display 04:49:50 oh wait, here's the right one 04:49:58 whee! it worked! 04:50:08 great! 04:50:36 why does it keep making me save? 04:50:47 how so? 04:51:20 oh, i just hit the wrong button. the tear-off menus are weird 04:53:03 hee, hee. high quality documentation 04:53:11 Hmm, it has two Help menus. 04:53:14 One is blank. 04:53:45 ? 04:53:51 goddamnit! 04:53:52 must be a mac thing 04:54:01 cygwin overwrote python2.1 04:54:07 ouch 04:54:18 the tkinter port isn't exactly polished 04:54:35 only one document open at a time? ripoff 04:54:39 http://infomesh.net/2002/editor/screenshot.png 04:54:54 huh? open up a new window. Not difficult 04:55:04 it is on mac os x 04:55:52 argh, no keybindings for copy, paste, etc. 04:56:13 sure: ctrl+[x/c/v] 04:56:21 how come paste doesn't overwrite the highlighted text? 04:56:38 ok, the wrong keybindings ;-) 04:56:56 paste overwrite: works for me 04:57:06 hmm 04:57:52 Hmm, it won't let me edit docs from the web 04:58:07 you have to use Open URI and Save URI 04:58:15 i did. 04:58:21 and you must have savetoweb.py in the same directory if you want to save over FTP 04:58:23 oh -- it's tkinter gone wonky 05:03:32 It's not too bad though, is it? 05:03:44 No, it's quite nice. 05:03:48 well, nothwithstanding the fact that it doesn't work properly on OS X 05:03:50 I'm sure it's much better on Windows. 05:04:05 it's quite solid 05:04:28 Cool. Any plans for syntax coloring? 05:05:40 Hmm... not really. I've never been a fan of syntax coloring, strangely enough 05:06:02 AaronSw has changed the topic to: #swhack: The Original #sbp 05:06:14 i figured 05:06:15 :-) 05:06:41 I just wanted something that edits, over the Web, and could handle line breaks properly 05:06:43 well, i can't say it will replace pepper for me... 05:06:51 lol 05:09:59 Time for another edition of #sbp summaries: 05:09:59 tav likes browser.py, wants to use it in omni 05:10:00 omni is the application framework formerly known as "that application framework" 05:10:01 sbp thinks it should be called . 05:10:04 blanu thinks it's a "component-based architecture for building applications, a la NeXTStep and such." 05:10:20 aaronsw thinks the omni folks grabbed the name omni first 05:10:35 Aaron thinks that #sbp is #swhack, and pastes the summary into the wrong channel 05:10:46 sbp laughs 05:10:49 out loud 05:10:51 :-) 05:12:01 NeXTStep sounds really neat. Tim praised it a lot 05:12:07 next week: aaronsw goes on hiatus leaving the job of summarizing to sbp, who goes on hiatus and leaves it to aaronsw, who both mirror the summaries at their respective websites. in the end, no more summaries are written. 05:12:32 NeXTStep sounds really neat. Tim praised it a lot 05:12:32 heh, heh, heh 05:12:32 Did you hear? They changed the name to "Mac OS X". 05:12:33 ;-) 05:13:09 .google omni group 05:13:10 omni group: http://www.omnigroup.com 05:13:28 .google the omni guys 05:13:29 the omni guys: http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/raves/content.html 05:14:54 I wanna work for them: http://www.omnigroup.com/company/whatisomni/philosophy/ 05:16:04 lol! "our corporate chef serves us dinner in our formal dining room every weeknight, we play pool and foozball and watch Jackie Chan movies on our 62 inch television (with its 600 watt THX sound system)." 05:16:24 yeah, that's the bit that enticed me :-) 05:16:54 read: my mom cooks food for us at our house when i get the gang over to watch tv on the couch 05:17:12 ooh:- 05:17:14 [[[ 05:17:14 Omni has a professional chef (and assistant). Dinner is at six-thirty every weeknight. Bring your SO if you like. 05:17:15 Omni buys you all the food and drinks you consume while you are working. Even if you go out to eat. Even if you don't think about work as you chew. 05:17:19 ]]] - http://www.omnigroup.com/company/jobs/ 05:18:00 this just in: tav says omni a codename 05:18:05 aw, they're located in Seattle. I'd have to move 05:18:14 for fucks sake 05:18:17 stop that 05:18:19 lol 05:18:34 or if you want to quote me, do it off log 05:18:42 that'd make it pointless 05:18:49 so, don't quote me 05:18:55 how am i going to remember these things if they're not logged? 05:19:32 emacs things.to.remember 05:19:39 Doc Searls: "You need to grep your fucking memory, and it's hard." 05:20:03 things.to.remember: that's what swhack is 05:20:07 then google lets me search it 05:20:55 i mean why do you need to keep everything so private anyway? 05:21:14 we want people to take these ideas. 05:21:20 (i do, at least) 05:21:31 * sbp sometimes feels a bit weird about having spewed 1MB+ of innane chatter into the Web 05:21:37 heh 05:21:51 ooh, did you see my funny comment to PS? 05:21:58 no, what? 05:22:13 i found several megabytes of archives about who won and lost which hangman games 05:22:17 """BTW, I'm not sure I would have chosen the acronym "URP". Every time I write it, I feel like excusing myself afterwards""" 05:22:32 Heh, heh. 05:23:31 hangman archives: http://archive.snoot.org/ 05:24:02 wow, that is funny 05:24:04 now the whole world can know how i suck at hangsnoot 05:25:22 i'm of the let-people-do-whatever-they-want-and-keep-good-backups philosophy 05:27:13 well, recording where you fucked up, got a bit moody, or vulnerable is depressing sometimes 05:27:41 actually, this channel is an interesting sociological experiment. We have these little logging outburts every so often 05:27:49 you think so? i think it's just further proof that everyone sucks, which is sort of liberating. 05:28:20 Well, I think you have an easier time of it than some. You're more level headed than, for example, I am 05:28:42 hmm, you think so? 05:28:50 in real life, i'm apparently a total hothead 05:29:05 And I know that people like to take things out of context, or simply ignore that fact that you may have changed your opinions since some old rant 05:29:25 that only comes through occasionally on here :-) 05:30:03 heh heh 05:30:58 i think it's pretty clear that when we step into an age wheree your ramblings from age 6 are a few googles away (cf. sandro on google groups) people's perspectives on these things are going to have to change 05:31:39 Sure. And I don't really regret the logging... it's rather interesting, good for searching, reminds me how I've been wasting my time... it's "good" to record things 05:31:58 yep. 05:32:37 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m713-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 05:32:55 sbp (~sean@m713-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:33:15 that's another good thing: I can catch up on conversations 05:33:33 yeah 05:33:59 see, I would have missed: "05:31:58 yep." 05:34:22 * AaronSw votes in the disney shareholders meeting 05:34:23 it's pretty easy to figure out what to vote for: just pick the opposite of what disney recommends 05:34:41 lol 05:34:48 You own shares in Disney? 05:35:00 i got one or two for my birthday once, from an aunt 05:35:05 neat 05:35:29 see, they want me to vote for "the 2002 Executive Performance Plan" -- obviously that's really the "2002 Give Ourselves Cash Plan" 05:35:53 heh, yeah 05:36:01 they want me to vote against labor standards in China, park safety reporting and independent accountants. 05:36:13 "All those in favour of giving ourselves a 10% pay raise..." 05:36:45 actually, this channel is also interesting in that we act sometimes 05:37:11 remember the cool arguments that we used to have? I really hope someone stumbles across them one day and thinks "woah" 05:37:39 we had cool arguments? 05:37:47 yea, i was wondering that too 05:37:51 when was that? 05:38:11 yeah. about all sorts of stuff, but mainly in the URI/RDF/xWebL days 05:38:19 ah 05:38:26 ah, those were the days 05:38:46 we'd be sort of screaming at each other, and then Aaron would go "heh, look at this article", and then we'd just move onto laughing about that instead 05:39:06 heh 05:39:21 we'd also provide color commentary on whatever craziness was going in in #rdfig 05:39:27 Who needs Shakespeare when you've got #swhack? 05:39:36 heh, yeah. #rdfig is another cool place 05:43:07 if you could only leave 80 ASCII characters to the Web, what would they be? 05:46:59 stop asking me stupid questions and upgrade to OS X, blah, blah, blah 05:47:17 * AaronSw is at 59 chars... 05:47:23 heh, really? 05:47:29 yeah 05:47:32 cool 05:48:02 * sbp hasn't even considered it. Well, I've considered it quite a lot, but not come up with anything 05:48:22 well, I came up with something, but it wasn't very good, and I can't even remember it now 05:49:11 it's not much space: " " 05:49:40 aha -- here it is, my life in 80 chars: 05:49:41 free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it. 05:49:59 neat! 05:50:21 hmm, i do like that 05:50:31 AaronSw has changed the topic to: free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it. 05:50:43 BLURB:free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it. 05:50:45 C: free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it. from AaronSw 05:51:01 C::This is my life summed up in 80 characters, in response to a question from sbp. 05:51:02 commented item C 05:51:10 * sbp checks the length 05:51:10 >>> len('free world net crypto info love share peace protect gaia. u r the world: fix it.') 05:51:11 80 05:51:11 >>> 05:51:25 yeah, i was quite surprised. 05:51:33 now, how can we spread this message... 05:51:34 i just finished writing, and behold: it was 80 chars. 05:51:39 spooky 05:52:05 hmz 05:52:17 gaia is mine you bitch! 05:52:25 tav's would be "hmz " 05:52:29 heh 05:52:29 lol 05:52:53 man, i can't wait till we cut over to vorpal. i'm getting so much freaking spam 05:56:52 C::Mine would be something like: "Homer: Mmm... donuts. [quote courtesy of sbp. Thanks for tuning in - stay free!]" 05:56:53 commented item C 05:56:59 wacky: "I'm a student. I know what English lessons are like. Being a student who sees what goes on, I know how apathetic and mindless most of my fellow frats are. Instead of reading something that could actually inspire them and do them good they'd rather sit down and read some trashy, low-rate, mediocre comic book. If I was condemned to read that kind of junk for the rest of my life and forced to write some ridiculously nouveau, mincy web-log I'd rather 05:56:59 - http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2002/1/18/170/07095/26#26 05:57:02 what has that guy been smoking? 05:57:28 AaronPot 05:58:11 continuing: "I was reading Dante's Inferno at the age of 2. I don't need some jumped-up, just-out-of-teacher-training-college Lehrer trying to teach me how to read and write." 06:01:26 heh, that's quite a cool rant 06:01:53 argh, I just noticed that I'm still using Notepad 06:02:12 I should have saved my draft attempts to the Web, but instead, I saved them to My Documents as usual 06:10:36 Dave to Powazek: 'Your site is the most brain-damaged weblog I've ever seen. "Design" does not mean "Do it differently from everyone else." Derek, you don't even know how to do a friggin email link. Learn, you're still young, there's time!!' 06:11:24 Boing Boing: "Stray fighting dogs are interbreeding with dingos in the Australian bush and producing a race of giant super-dogs that are terrorizing the countryside." 06:12:29 * sbp does a bit of history, finds out when #swhack was invented 06:12:53 I first entered the channel on Wed Jul 25 22:00:06 2001, BST 06:13:26 on the difference between designers and stylists: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/bathingape/ 06:14:26 tav, what's notefi? 06:14:55 * AaronSw investigates this bathing ape 06:16:23 Dave Winer: "All michegas comes from Rumania. It's been proven." 06:16:28 according to my logs, the last two "lines" before the recorded ones in the #swhack archives are:- 06:16:37 [[[ 06:16:38 [21:43] Oh. Well, what loggy then? 06:16:38 [21:43] my loggy... hold on. 06:16:39 ]]] 06:17:03 and then #swhack was born [in #sbp] :-) 06:19:03 And the first lines in #swhack: 06:19:04 But we won't be talking about the SW all of the time 06:19:04 I know, I just like the sound of it 06:19:04 like you're hitting someone with a mallet... swhack! 06:19:04 OK? 06:19:04 Yeah, go on then. I have to run now anyway :-) 06:19:20 See my story has remained the same even since then. swhack! 06:19:22 tav has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:19:41 man, w/o swhack i'd be doing homework now 06:19:44 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 06:20:07 come again? 06:20:38 ooh, our private logs up until Jul 25th read like a mini-#swhacl 06:20:41 er... #swhack 06:20:50 ah, those were the days 06:21:41 seems that we were playing Go, but my logs folded just as the interesting "why #swhack?" bits starts 06:21:51 what was that about homework? 06:22:14 if we didn't have swhack i'd actually be doing my homework right now 06:22:39 yeah, I got that bit - but why? 06:22:48 umm, because it's due tomorrow 06:23:23 ah 06:23:33 why don't you go and do it, then? 06:23:51 is #swhack *that* enticing? :-) 06:24:01 it is indeed 06:24:44 man, Entourage sure has a lot of fields: 06:24:44 Spouse Birthday, Anniversary, Notes, Age, Astrology sign, Bloodtype, Furigana Company Name, Furigana First Name, Furigana Last Name, Furigana Spouse Name, Interests 06:24:50 .google "furigana company name" 06:24:51 no results found. 06:24:57 Heh. I feel the same way - I should have gone to bed ages ago 06:25:00 Furigana? 06:25:04 .google Furigana 06:25:05 Furigana: http://sp.cis.iwate-u.ac.jp/sp/lesson/j/doc/furigana.html 06:25:10 yeah, seems a bit odd 06:25:28 i like how it automatically calculates your age and astrology sign from your birthday 06:25:39 ah, the Little Black Dress: http://transcriptions.english.ucsb.edu/topics/infoart/chanel/chanel-merchandise.html 06:25:42 that is good 06:26:17 ah, it's Hiragana 06:26:32 it's a... subset/vocabulary/dialect of Japanese 06:26:49 available "by ruby tags" apparently 06:27:04 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 06:28:03 well, Ruby can do text runs, so you have a bit of Kanji base, and Hiragana run text 06:28:05 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 06:28:52 Chaals showed me how to type Japanese... it was quite bizarre 06:29:17 yeah, mac os x has this odd little palette appear when you enter japanese mode 06:30:35 Today it seems sort of hard to believe that I was over in London just a short while ago. 06:31:19 Yeah. It's quite freaky that you were in this room just 20 days ago! 06:32:40 Exactly 20? 06:33:09 dunno. Possibly 06:33:18 ò£ 06:33:26 hmm, that' didn 't come out right 06:33:29 nope, two-weeks, in fact 06:33:38 i guess irc isn't very ogood with japanese 06:33:53 no, it's not 06:34:06 Ooh, now I'm speaking British! 06:34:10 color 06:34:11 hmm 06:34:18 And this is Australian. 06:35:03 the power of i18n in the os 06:37:18 i better get to sleep so i can wake up in the morning and do homework 06:37:32 nite 06:38:09 O.K., c'ya 06:38:11 c'ya 07:05:57 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:04:34 tav has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:04:57 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:06:41 tav``` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:06:54 tav has quit ("Changing Servers") 08:14:46 pryo (pryo@menneskedyr.satyra.net) has joined #swhack 08:51:49 pryo has quit (Remote closed the connection) 09:30:34 tav``` is now known as tav 09:37:51 Emberwild (~Emberwild@217.61.223.174) has joined #swhack 09:43:40 Emberwild? 09:53:35 yes ? 09:58:35 Emberwild has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:58:55 Emberwild (~Emberwild@217.61.223.174) has joined #swhack 10:00:07 hi 10:00:10 do we know you? 10:03:13 no dont think so 10:05:58 just wanted to see what the openprojects network had to offer 10:11:37 ah 10:12:01 well, we are l33t script k1dd13s 11:31:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:42:55 tansaku5 (~sam@n144-191.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:43:30 tansaku5 is now known as tansaku 12:24:51 Emberwild has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:30:15 tansaku4 (~sam@n144-191.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:43:04 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:43:30 tansaku4 is now known as tansaku 13:38:59 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:47:05 tsk: well, we are l33t script k1dd13s 13:47:34 what a great name for a book: "What is the name of this book?" 13:56:53 sean, your mail is bouncing 13:56:55 .dns mysterylights.com 13:56:56 mysterylights.com - 80.94.192.48 13:57:15 you should put your mail on vorpal ;-) 13:58:03 Emberwild (~Emberwild@217.61.223.174) has joined #swhack 14:20:21 Logic teacher: "VALIDITY IS MAXIMALLY GENERAL: IT EXTENDS ACROSS ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS/MEANINGS. Hey, this is LOGIC, what else do you expect?!" (caps in the original) 14:24:12 Emberwild has quit () 14:24:47 Emberwild (~Emberwild@217.61.223.174) has joined #swhack 14:39:34 '[Seinfeld is the] tableaux of human fecklessness imagined and presented with an adamantine clarity no less intoxicating than the smooth stone of "Apollo and Daphne," the riotous imagery on the dominant wall of the Sistine Chapel.' 14:39:34 - http://www.salon.com/ent/masterpiece/2002/01/07/seinfeld/print.html 15:02:00 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:07:01 wendy (~wendy@sttldslgw16poolB194.sttl.uswest.net) has joined #swhack 15:08:57 wendy has quit (Client Quit) 15:24:56 Paul Snively: 'Anything that requires you to even invoke a command line, let alone type something like "apt-get install *kernel-module*," to install a driver emphatically does not qualify as a "real desktop OS."' 16:51:06 sbp (~sean@m626-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:57:25 Wow, a smeg worth of answers to my URx questions 17:10:01 paraphrased quote of the week: XHTML is not sacred 17:27:16 @ http://www.dantobias.com/webtips/force.html 17:27:21 D: http://www.dantobias.com/webtips/force.html from sbp 17:27:27 D:|Feel The Force 17:27:28 titled item D 17:28:02 D::An interesting page - a good example of the style in which all Web accessibility material should be written. 17:28:03 commented item D 17:28:45 D::It answers the question "how do I force a user of my page to do X" with the simple answer "you can't", but with a list of reasons along the way 17:28:46 commented item D 17:39:05 ooh! he hates Amaya too: "It's not intended as a practical browser for end-users, and is full of bugs and flaws." - http://www.dantobias.com/webtips/brand-x.html 17:51:45 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:53:41 hobu (~hobu@epimetheus.hobu.net) has joined #swhack 17:55:15 * sbp waves to Emberwild and hobu 17:56:23 hello 17:57:22 BTW, this channel is publically logged to the Web. If you want to say something off-log, prefix your comments with "# " 17:57:39 logs: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 17:57:47 Lion7 (~AZERTY@ALimoges-101-1-2-107.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack 17:57:54 Hi Lion7... 17:57:55 actually, I found this channel through that page :) 17:58:00 hey all 17:58:02 Ah, fair enough :-) 17:58:16 * sbp repeats for Lion7's sake: BTW, this channel is publically logged to the Web. If you want to say something off-log, prefix your comments with "# " 17:58:34 I mostly hang out on #ipaq and #zope on this server.... didn't know about this one 17:58:46 bon.. 17:58:48 je vous quiite 17:58:50 Lion7 has left #swhack 17:59:06 yeah... there are quite a few good channels on this server 17:59:16 ooh, a zope person, eh? 17:59:29 there are some big fans and big haters of Zope in this channel :-) 18:00:21 I'm a noob for the most part, but I can do a few things with it...more of a fan of python that brought me to zope 18:00:41 we're all Python fans. I think it's a prerequesite to get in the channel :-) 18:00:50 :) 18:00:56 * sbp is not particularly fond of Zope, though 18:01:05 in fact, I'm just hacking on a Python browser right now 18:01:08 I'm going to tthe conference in a couple of weeks! 18:01:24 neat. Will you be there for TimBL's keynote? 18:01:37 all four days... shouldn't miss it 18:07:48 do you know of a python (or how to quickly write one) that you can point at a directory and it will return a nested list of all the filenames? 18:18:01 .google zope 18:18:02 zope: http://www.zope.org 18:23:50 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:25:01 sbp (~sean@m962-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:25:58 I wonder if there are (m)any words in the OED that don't yield any results on Google? 18:42:23 [Global notice] Hi all. Ongoing network announcements may be found on WALLOPS, including a pending request for assistance with the dancer-ircd code base. 18:43:30 [Global notice] To see wallops, one of the following commands may be used, depending on your client: "/umode +w", "/mode +w", "/quote mode +w", "/raw mode +w" .... thanks. 18:47:03 man, it's a beautiful say out 18:47:17 err day 18:47:40 i'm really liking this routine. i've got an hour or so to think about big-picture stuff, while i commute. 18:47:44 it's fun, but it's hard work 18:47:57 i'm trying to find a method to all my crazy projects... pick out themes and stuff 18:48:00 bensw (~bensw@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 18:48:07 I think i finally figured it out today. 18:48:11 hello 18:48:16 where are you now? 18:48:19 Hi Ben 18:48:23 I'm trying to make the internet a better place for collaboration, communication and commerce. 18:48:30 ^ that's my big theme 18:48:33 * bensw is a level 3 warrior in alter aeon 18:48:39 Hmm... the three c's 18:48:45 i'm at home now, and ben is sitting next to me using vorpal 18:48:48 logout 18:48:55 whoa, i said the wrong thing 18:49:00 stupid tav, screwing up my big line 18:49:18 take two: I'm trying to make the internet a better place for reading, writing and collaboration. 18:49:30 that's better. 18:51:01 bensw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:51:37 everybody's studied reading. that's what all of our silly one-way media are. 18:51:56 writing too has been pretty big, it's rather well understood 18:52:03 but collaboration isn't as much. 18:52:06 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m55-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 18:52:16 it's built on reading and writing, but it's definitely more than the sum of its parts. 18:52:21 Funny, making the internet a better place for reading, writing, and collaboration is mostly what all my projects end up being about, too. 18:52:24 sbp (~sean@m55-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:52:28 heh, cool. 18:52:41 "For he has nothing, yet he can fly" - Bert Jansch, Bird Song 18:52:58 I just re-discovered and went nuts about wiki's this weekend. Weblogs were last week for me :) 18:52:59 I think my taxonomy makes good sense. 18:53:05 Heh, heh, heh. 18:53:17 Now I want to run my weblog entries through my wiki. 18:53:26 That's what Ken was doing, I think. 18:53:37 certainly they're very similar. 18:53:49 I'm thinking of building in some sort of weblog thing to blogspace/zwiki 18:53:49 * sbp catches a bit of WTW influence on AaronSw, wonders if he's been reading it 18:54:02 re-reading it... no... hmm 18:54:28 I was poking at Movable Type and UseModWiki this weekend. Mostly in setting up my http://www.decafbad.com/arboretum/ site 18:54:31 it does sit immediately above my computer, tho [reaches, all his stuff falls down on him] 18:54:37 heh, heh 18:54:46 Homer: Stupid gravity 18:55:22 so i came up with a little summary of each of the three sections for my homepage. 18:56:32 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m79-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 18:56:49 sbp (~sean@m79-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:57:01 each of them contains larger projects i'm working towards. 18:57:49 like for reading i want to build an information feed -- a news aggregator like RU or Ampheta. for writing i want an information space like blogspace and the plex, and for collaboration i want easy group formation with voting and consensus process, trust metrics, etc. 19:01:05 Hmm, sounds like what I want to work on :) 19:01:35 heh... have a website? 19:02:04 I think I wandered into the plex channel at one point, since I was musing about a way to make a distributed personal biographical metadata system, inspired by user info on LiveJournal accounts. 19:02:21 AaronSw: Just starting to re-create mine after it was lost on an old server. I'm a web-nobody right now :) 19:02:29 :-/ 19:02:58 I do have one project just starting under my domain at http://www.decafbad.com/arboretum but I have to flesh out the rest of the site, including my personal junk 19:04:43 interesting... building another outliner? 19:04:51 Yup, yet another outliner :) 19:05:13 Not sure how far I'll get, but I kind of want to make an emacs-of-outliners in Cocoa 19:05:16 hmm... your true name, l.m. orchard sounds familiar 19:05:35 heh, i get it: orchard...arboretum 19:06:03 Sort of :) Also outlines -> trees -> Arboretum. And I live in Ann Arbor. It's overly clever as a name 19:06:18 Oh, and the office building I work in is called the Arboretum 19:06:33 heh, heh 19:06:50 Probably the only project I'll ever do which has so many punny connections 19:07:29 puns, upon puns... 19:08:30 I've got a weird habit of looking for clever project names, whether they actually are or not. 19:09:10 IEEE: "thanks for replying on time (you'd be amazed at what authors try to get away with!)." 19:10:42 tansaku (~sam@n144-174.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 19:19:28 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:26:22 Uh oh. ICANN is trying to take over protocols too? http://www.icann.org/pso/pso-mou.htm 19:34:07 D'oht 19:36:43 Heh. "I love that doorknob one, but IS's lead editor is not crazy about it." 19:50:24 * AaronSw takes a photo for his article 19:50:46 it looks like a back-of-book cover: windswept, grinning, old yellow brick 19:53:13 .wn windswept 19:53:14 windswept defined as: 19:53:15 - adj : open to or swept by wind; "windswept headlands" 19:56:06 http://blogspace.com/random/windswept 19:59:14 sbp (~sean@m186-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 19:59:31 wb 20:00:37 ty 20:00:38 sbp, what do you think of my new arrogant-author photo i just took: http://blogspace.com/random/windswept 20:00:41 * sbp catches up 20:00:41 np 20:01:27 heh, if you crop it down right, it looks like i'm the separator between light and dark 20:02:05 hobu has left #swhack 20:02:31 hmm, i didn't see hobu come in 20:02:37 heh, that's pretty cool. How/where did you take it? 20:02:37 * AaronSw checks the user list 20:02:50 i just took it outside, next to the front door. 20:02:54 Hobu came in a while ago. I had a little chat with him/her 20:03:02 in channel? 20:03:05 yeah 20:03:14 hmm. 20:03:23 i needed it for my magazine article, so i grabbed camera and mother 20:03:41 You're writing a magazine article? 20:05:23 past tense -- wrote 20:05:36 Don't you remember? On MusicBrainz for the IEEE Intelligent Systems magazine 20:05:40 it goes into production this week. 20:05:50 Not as glamorous as being on the cover of a big red book... 20:06:08 * sbp doesn't recall it 20:06:17 Hmm, I don't think Emberwild every introduced {his,her}self. 20:06:22 yeah, but freer writing, I presume 20:06:34 Yeah, it wasn't very hard to write 20:06:39 .google detourzos 20:06:40 detourzos: http://students.uwsp.edu/ddani849/Postman%20Dertouzos%20Analysis.htm 20:06:43 Hmm... is spring ever going to come? It's always so dark out 20:06:44 .google detourzos jukebox 20:06:46 detourzos jukebox: http://logicerror.com/musicbrainzArticle 20:06:49 that's it 20:06:56 it's a bright and beautiful day out here today 20:06:59 quite chilly, tho 20:07:10 bright: as you can see from the photo i just took 20:07:12 Time stands still but the clock moves on 20:07:17 yeah 20:07:20 .time cst 20:07:21 Jan. 21, 2002 2:08 pm US/Central 20:07:39 well, it should be. Gets dark about 4:45 here 20:08:40 yeah, same here 20:09:06 Gonna move vorpal to the server room today. 20:09:15 * AaronSw calls to see if it's time 20:09:36 argh, stupid overlay codes 20:09:48 where's the piece that you wrote for your homepage? I'd be interested to read that 20:09:57 i haven't typed it in yet 20:10:25 wow, not only does it not exist, it doesn't not exist 20:10:44 Heh. 20:12:37 "You did wrong, you did wrong, tell my friend Willie Brown" 20:13:28 * AaronSw tries to figure out how to reconfigure networking on debian 20:14:28 * sbp listens to some good music and wonders what else he should do out of his huge TODO list 20:19:24 ah, man /etc/network/interfaces is pretty useful 20:20:52 Charlie Goodier says that mIRC and Besirc crash on him, making them unusable. 20:21:19 he says they "seem to crash after every attempted operation" on XP 20:21:39 heh, heh 20:21:44 The Omni Group: "Your mom called, and she said you should license OmniWeb." 20:29:33 i'm moving all my servers to a new T3, so there'll be some DNS-based outages on swartzfam.com and theinfo.org. 20:29:54 ugh 20:30:09 do you use those servers for something important? 20:30:38 or at all 20:30:39 they're part of the Web, and I use the Web for something important 20:30:48 there's always web.archive.org 20:30:52 true 20:31:07 if you have a speedy DNS resolver it shouldn't be an issue... but nobody really does 20:34:34 but it might be messed up for 24 hours 20:34:44 alright... time to pack things up 20:41:01 * deus_x hates meetings. 20:45:52 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 20:47:08 pl. pff o gp 20:47:13 err ok, off i go 20:53:44 sbp (~sean@m142-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:56:33 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 20:56:42 Hi Doid 20:56:57 helooo 20:57:07 (thought it broke again) 20:57:16 Besirc 20:57:21 Uh huh? 20:57:23 hey tav 20:57:32 Besirc keeps crashing 20:57:51 Um... have you been in #swhack before? 20:57:59 no 20:58:21 So you don't know that this channel is publically and instantly logged to the Web 20:58:31 to say something off-log, preprend it with "# " 20:58:55 logs: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 21:00:07 So, what can we do you for? 21:00:18 Presuming you're still there, that is... 21:01:31 * sbp seems to have found a kick-ass way of scaring people off - "Google is watching!" 21:03:12 I've typed about five lines off-log. where are they? 21:03:12 hehe 21:03:12 Yep 21:03:16 DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:03:31 Heh, WTF? 21:04:10 that guy needs a better IRC client :-) 21:04:52 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:04:55 wb 21:05:04 Still on BersIRC? 21:06:22 DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:06:32 that appears to be a "yes" 21:07:18 we've had some rather funky people in the channel today, haven't we boys and girls? 21:07:32 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:07:36 wb, again 21:07:58 Urgh! I'm typing stuff and entering but it's 21:08:04 not going anywhere! 21:08:22 well, my advice is to get a decent IRC client 21:08:43 .google decent IRC client 21:08:45 decent IRC client: http://www.mirc.co.uk/get.html 21:13:08 DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:13:42 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:15:24 Hmm.. I need a better textarea for writing on the web. I'm sure this is not a new idea. 21:19:27 * sbp returns from posting some letters, and plays "Down By The Seaside", Led Zeppelin 21:19:33 textarea: been there, done that 21:19:44 that's why I wrote the editor that lets me save over the Web 21:19:59 that's whay I wrote a Wiki in ASP, and RDFWiki in Python 21:20:12 that's why I welcomed Blogspaced, tried out Amaya, worked on HTTP PUT 21:20:19 that's why I wrote QuickPut 21:20:25 I see I need to do more Googling, and less Krogering. 21:20:38 and that's why I continue to work on collaboration over the Web :-) 21:20:42 yeah 21:20:52 but it's always nice to start from scrtach - less preconceptions 21:20:53 I downloaded Amaya again. Is the new one good? 21:21:04 my personal opinion of Amaya is not very high 21:21:14 Seems like I'm in the right place :) 21:22:13 heh: """Some folks are big into Amaya* for writing hypertext (others can't stand it)""" - http://logicerror.com/hypertext 21:22:29 "Some folks" is linked to DanC, and "others" is linked to me. Thanks, Aaron! 21:23:14 .google RDFWiki 21:23:15 RDFWiki: http://infomesh.net/2001/rdfwiki 21:23:21 .google PUT handler 21:23:22 PUT handler: http://www.w3.org/Daemon/User/Config/Accessories.html 21:23:28 .google QuickPut 21:23:29 QuickPut: http://infomesh.net/2001/07/python/quickput.txt 21:23:36 ugh, that's the old one 21:23:59 new one: http://infomesh.net/2001/QuickPut/QuickPut.txt 21:24:13 Hmm, must hack with Python more often. 21:24:22 the PUT handler is somewhere in www-archive... lemme find it 21:24:53 ta da: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0163 21:24:58 yeah, Python is great 21:25:16 * AaronSw waves from server room. setting up new machine (vorpal) on T3 21:25:18 - #rdfig 21:25:25 hi :) 21:25:47 the server room is down the road from your house, isn't it? 21:26:14 well hello Aaron 21:26:17 DoidM has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:26:24 hey doid! 21:26:31 hmm, that didn't last long 21:26:38 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:26:41 wb 21:26:50 Thankyou. Hi Aaron. 21:27:07 Whee... wiki-ing about DocBook at work, thinking about DocBooking the wiki. 21:27:13 heh heh 21:28:28 "they were all in love with death. they were doing it in texas" 21:29:09 So, how's Vorpal? 21:30:11 we'll see in a sec. 21:31:17 let's hope that Vorpal will be the proverbial Web White Hole that it has been billed as 21:31:27 woah, that sentence didn't come out right 21:32:21 or whoa. Google seems to think that "whoa" is more popular 21:32:40 white hole? 21:32:49 * wonders whats on Vorpal 21:32:49 ok... makes noise, lights blink 21:32:55 yes. the opposite of a black hole. Spews matter out into the universe 21:33:19 that'd be a white fountain 21:33:20 much like spankybot, back in its heyday 21:33:26 i'm going to move my email onto vorpal, more to come 21:33:31 .google "White hole" 21:33:33 "White hole": http://www.whiteriver.net/whitehole 21:33:39 .google "white fountain" 21:33:42 "white fountain": http://www.cix.co.uk/~philla/tgm/tales/wf1.htm 21:33:50 Grpgmrpmgprmgh 21:33:59 .google "White hole" "black hole" spacetime 21:34:01 "White hole" "black hole" spacetime: http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html 21:34:06 * sbp plays Bron-Yr-Aur 21:34:34 there we go: the Schwarzschild metric 21:35:04 that's quite a good page, actually 21:35:18 .google "white fountain" "black hole" spacetime 21:35:20 no results found. 21:35:43 they're called white holes, trust me. They're holes, but things come out of them 21:35:54 "Rosen posited that each black hole would symmetrically on another gravitational well called a white hole (or sometimes also white fountain)." 21:35:55 - http://leminuteur.free.fr/Universes.htm 21:36:01 blargh 21:36:51 * sbp wonders where deus and Doid went 21:37:07 the Adler planetarium had a big 3d show on them with star trek stuff and everything 21:37:14 and they called them white fountains 21:38:34 well, I call them White Holes, and I'm always right, so nyahh nyahh :-) 21:38:54 "white fountain" does make more sense... 21:39:28 yeah 21:39:46 that's the nice thing about language: so egalitarian 21:40:39 well, it's not really 21:40:53 feel the need to make globally useful rdf but too lazy 21:40:55 with cultural idioms, and the like 21:41:15 hmm 21:41:38 perhaps democratic would have been a better word 21:42:52 we elect words, now? 21:43:25 sorry, election for what? 21:43:38 OED nomination, perhaps :-) 21:43:57 he 21:44:16 language isn't all that smooth, but it does evolve by consensus, if that's what you mean 21:44:31 especially as colloqualisms get accepted into the mainstream 21:44:57 s/colloqualisms/colloquialisms/ 21:44:58 DoidM has left #swhack 21:45:02 yep 21:45:14 so if everyone started saying white fountain, that'd be its name 21:45:32 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-161-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 21:45:32 ooh: http://63.149.73.20/ 21:45:35 can tou ping 63.149.73.20? 21:45:35 yeah 21:46:08 cool 21:46:13 CygBot (~sbp@m142-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:46:15 .http://63.149.73.20/ 21:46:16 Welcome to Your New Home Page! Welcome to Your New Home in Cyberspace! This is a placeholder page installed by the Debian release of the Apache Web server package, because no home page was installed on this host. You may want to replace this as soon as possible with your own web pages, of course.... This computer has installed the Debian GNU/Linux operating system but has nothing to do with the 21:46:17 Debian GNU/Linux project. If you want to report something about this host's behavior or domain, please contact the ISPs involved directly, not the Debian Project. See the Network Abuse Clearinghouse for how to do this. Unless you changed its configuration, your new server is configured as follows: Configuration files can be found in /etc/apache. The DocumentRoot, which is the directory under 21:46:18 .. a very large amount of text. 21:46:31 10$ ping 63.149.73.20 21:46:37 > Pinging 63.149.73.20 with 32 bytes of data: 21:46:38 > 21:46:39 > Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=288ms TTL=241 21:46:40 > Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=261ms TTL=241 21:46:41 > Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=248ms TTL=241 21:46:42 > Reply from 63.149.73.20: bytes=32 time=247ms TTL=241 21:46:43 > 21:46:44 > Ping statistics for 63.149.73.20: 21:46:45 > Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), 21:46:46 > [...] 21:46:55 cool. 21:47:02 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:47:14 can you go to the w3c's html2text thing and see if it can see my page? 21:47:26 (since i can't reach it) 21:47:29 the W3C's service didn't work last time I tried it 21:47:33 but I'll try again 21:47:36 yeah, scheduled downtime 21:47:39 it should be back now 21:48:06 nope, still doesn't work for me 21:48:11 hmm 21:48:17 maybe ,head? 21:48:30 .http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/html2txt?url=http://63.149.73.20/ 21:49:29 * sbp tries http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/headers?url=http://63.149.73.20/ 21:49:59 doesn't seem to want to work 21:50:20 oh well 21:55:06 Gotta run 21:55:25 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:13:25 DoidM has left #swhack 22:18:24 * AaronSw crosses fingers... time to move mail over 22:24:08 deltab, what directory is my mail in again? 22:29:55 sbp (~sean@m9-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:35:40 tav``` (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 22:36:18 tav has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:44:42 tav``` is now known as tav 22:58:28 spamassasin has already caught one spam 22:58:32 ooh, two 23:03:57 Hmm... I should write a content hashing thingy 23:04:10 Aaron: would you host it for me? 23:04:15 of course 23:04:18 what does it do? 23:04:38 just a small Python CGI: gets a page, fiddles about with it, and then delivers the hash of various parts of the content 23:04:50 sounds good 23:04:51 so, for example, it might give the hash of all of the text data on the page 23:04:56 or all of the headers 23:06:08 btw, i'd be happy to host mysterylights.com email if you want 23:06:28 thanks for the offer 23:06:48 but my current server has been 99.9% reliable so far... 23:06:54 uh uh 23:06:56 "don't fix it if it ain't broke" :-) 23:07:01 that's why it went down yesterday? 23:07:03 ;-) 23:07:09 it went down? 23:07:14 yeah, a lot of mail bounced 23:07:32 oh well, I didn't notice 23:09:51 i'm quite excited about this new set up: qmail, spamassassin, courier-imap, etc. it's a lot of fun 23:09:56 gotta set up djbdns too 23:12:27 * AaronSw tries to figure out the name of this song he heardd 23:12:46 some oldie, had lyrics like "trapped trapped trapped, you're right where he wants you" 23:14:54 Um... 23:15:21 any more information? approximate year, band/artist, male/female, genere, etc. 23:15:34 no.. i just heard it on the radio 23:15:37 * sbp listens to Kashmir 23:15:41 didn't they say who it was? 23:15:53 no, don't think so 23:16:06 sounded a lot like some of the later beatles songs, but i don't think it was the beatles 23:16:25 hmmph, lyrics.ch is down 23:19:48 .google "trapped trapped trapped, you're right where he wants you" 23:19:49 no results found. 23:19:55 tried that already 23:20:00 was it a male singer, or female? 23:20:07 male, i believe 23:20:12 guitar music? 23:20:25 yeah, guitars with lots of percussion and background 23:20:37 can you remember any more of the lyrics? 23:20:40 .google "trapped trapped trapped" site:lyrics.astraweb.com 23:20:41 no results found. 23:21:42 not exactly... it was stuff like he know's what he's looking for, and now you're trapped -- they were very hard to make out 23:21:55 * AaronSw looks at the radio stations website 23:22:12 http://www.wdrv.com/cgi-bin/musiclog/musiclog.cgi 23:23:04 well, that helps quite a bit. 23:23:23 i think it was around 2 23:27:12 "The Real Me" by the Who, perhaps? 23:29:15 I doubt it 23:29:33 http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/thewho/therealme.html 23:29:38 yeah, i saw 23:32:28 http://www.xs4all.nl/~maroen/engels/lyrics/trappeda.htm ? 23:33:00 yeah, that's it! 23:33:13 how'd you find it? 23:33:24 sbp: i already wrote that 23:33:41 but they didn't play it 23:33:47 wrote what? 23:33:50 the content hash thing 23:33:54 oh 23:33:58 maybe they switched it and didn't put it in the machine 23:34:25 tav: is it available? 23:34:30 AaronSw: lyrics right where wants 23:34:31 i think i finished writing it about 5 minutes after we talked about it 23:34:48 hm? 23:34:56 .google lyrics right where wants 23:34:57 lyrics right where wants: http://www.amiright.com/misheard/index.shtml 23:35:24 sbp: yea, i'll release it w/ the finished notefi / worldwidewiki stuff 23:35:25 no 23:35:36 also going to setup a usefulshit.espnow.com for stuff like that 23:35:55 the elements_and_attributes parser is really cool 23:36:08 maybe come up with a uri that won't be blocked by the censorware ;-) 23:36:18 AaronSw: that particular page: lyrics trapped again 23:36:34 come up with a better subdomain ? 23:36:39 how'd you know to search for again? 23:36:49 tav, tools, utilities, cgi, stuff 23:36:54 found it in the 10th result on the previous search 23:37:02 ah, cool 23:37:09 someday i will learn the secrets 23:37:18 hmz 23:37:39 who's it by? springsteen? 23:37:48 yep 23:38:06 gotta run -- time to head home 23:38:15 (B. Springsteen/J. Lyon/S. Van Zandt) 23:38:16 c'ya 23:39:58 CygBot (~sbp@m9-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:40:04 $ u hashing 23:40:10 > stripTags: c01ae0702ffa23e3e7361b48aa74233e 23:40:11 > getTags: 753a112cc0e8e135fddcfaf5ff559b37 23:40:12 > getHeadings: 1310f71e9973e65288cbf45af832aada 23:40:13 > stripComments: 440c3acfccc874c5aa673975b89f2a17 23:40:14 > stripTagsAndComments: f468ab63c2e6e461a257edf7859730fa 23:40:15 > stripWhitespace: 4053ce13f020504a538a2cea9a4e6212 23:40:16 > [...] 23:40:28 ugh, it missed out the uri: http://www.w3.org/ 23:41:30 what's that? 23:41:55 a content hashing thing 23:42:06 "shingles" 23:43:03 to measure structural equivalence 23:43:57 *sigh* 23:44:24 well, it'd be interesting to see alternative implementations at least 23:44:40 well, you didn't give me the code :-) 23:44:47 and it only takes a few minutes 23:45:02 *nod* 23:48:53 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:55:04 hooray! I just rehashed cnn.com, and got stuff like:- 23:55:04 getTags: 57867af58215178d148cf3b40fe0505d 23:55:04 getTags: a8c1a6d95842596815df997493f846f6 23:55:04 getHeadings: d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e 23:55:04 getHeadings: d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e 23:56:34 summary:- 23:56:34 stripTags: different; getTags: different; getHeadings: same; 23:56:34 stripComments: same; stripTagsAndComments: same; stripWhitespace: 23:56:34 different; stripAll: same; getAttributes: different 23:57:17 Hmm... how can getTags be different, but stripComments remains the same? 23:58:16 ah, possible RegExp slip-up 23:58:36 ewww 23:58:47 what? 23:58:55 don't use re 23:59:02 re's great! 23:59:08 subclass sgmlparser 23:59:14 Eeek! No way 23:59:32 why not? 23:59:33 as if people really put decent SGML on the Web 2002-01-22.txt0100644000014300000000000020177607423376335011710 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:17 -- 00:00:22 class html_elements_parser(SGMLParser): 00:00:22 def reset(self): 00:00:22 self.pieces = [] 00:00:22 SGMLParser.reset(self) 00:00:22 def unknown_starttag(self, tag, attrs): 00:00:23 self.pieces.append("<%(tag)s>" % locals()) 00:00:25 def unknown_endtag(self, tag): 00:00:27 self.pieces.append("" % locals()) 00:00:29 -- 00:01:31 Hmm... 00:03:09 no, I don't trust it. It doesn't seem to handle comments correctly 00:03:44 that's cos it doesn't handle comments 00:03:57 def handel_comment(self, text): foo 00:03:59 handle 00:04:03 handle_comment(comment) 00:04:14 I mean, that function doesn't handle comments correctly 00:04:25 """For example, the comment "" will cause this method to be called with the argument 'text'.""" 00:05:49 the XML Recommendation clearly states: [15] Comment ::= '' 00:06:55 well, subclass and modify the methods to your heart's content 00:07:03 use that inheritance power! 00:08:06 what about htmlparser ? 00:08:09 the new one? 00:08:21 I might use that 00:08:38 but I'm comfortable with RegExps 00:08:43 the new one's not based on the sgmlparser, and at a guess is more compliant 00:09:23 yeah 00:09:34 * sbp used it for browser.py 00:12:22 000552Z I mean, that function doesn't handle comments correctly 00:12:27 why do you say that? 00:12:33 hmm... are you looking for an html parser? 00:13:34 it thinks that anything that matches r'' is a comment. That's not true - it may be invalid 00:14:10 what function are you referring to? 00:16:27 [[[ 00:16:43 ]]] 00:16:44 * AaronSw waves 00:16:44 [[[ 00:17:41 man, that t3 was fast. 00:18:05 i clicked those links on audiogalaxy and turned around and the songs were done downloading 00:19:14 handle_comment(comment) 00:19:14 This method is called when a comment is encountered. The comment argument is a string containing the text between the "" delimiters, but not the delimiters themselves. For example, the comment "" will cause this method to be called with the argument 'text'. The default method does nothing. 00:19:14 ]]] - Python 2.2 manual, \Doc\lib\module-sgmllib.html 00:19:15 it'd still work if I used it, but I don't want to use a module that thinks that "" is a comment 00:19:17 and the RegExps work rather well, IMO 00:20:26 oh, that's just a bug in the TeX source: 00:20:27 themselves. For example, the comment \samp{} will 00:20:27 cause this method to be called with the argument \code{'text'}. The 00:20:50 -- means en dash to TeX 00:21:01 ah... 00:21:11 and tex2html makes it into hyphen-minus 00:21:32 what we'd do without a genius like deltab around 00:21:42 indeed 00:22:01 * tav sticks tongue out at sbp, so my method is still valid, and is elegant ;p 00:22:25 your method is valid but many pages are not 00:22:26 well, what can I say? I'm just a big RegExp-loving fool 00:22:37 yeah, that's the problem 00:22:37 * AaronSw giggles at deltab's comment 00:23:08 for every problem their is a solution that is elegant, valid and unusable due to the mistakes of others. 00:24:03 that's a really intelligent sounding bunch of lies 00:24:17 heh, yeah. they're called jokes 00:24:27 "Hello. My name is [deleted] and I’m the Customer Service Manager 00:24:28 at Crucial Technology. [...] we want to make sure we fully address all of our customers’ needs." 00:24:28 They could start by learning where commas go. 00:25:22 and apostrophes 00:25:29 ehm, where the commas? 00:25:40 yeah, well that's one place where commas go: not where apostrophes belong. 00:26:13 * deltab sees no commas or apostrophes 00:26:21 WTF are you talking about, Aaron? 00:26:23 what are you on about AaronSw? 00:26:25 heh 00:26:30 hmm? 00:26:45 i reckon he's lost it 00:26:49 I see: "[...] I,m the Customer Service Manager [...] al of our customers, needs" 00:26:59 s/al /all / 00:27:10 heh, we saw different 00:27:14 strange 00:27:15 002605Z "Hello. My name is [deleted] and Im the Customer 00:27:15 We see apostrophies in their proper places. Your client sucks 00:27:27 deltab doesn't seem to have 00:27:29 no, Microsoft sucks 00:27:34 * sbp tries the logs 00:27:35 yeah 00:27:36 deltab: i saw "I'm" 00:27:42 must be windows suckiness 00:27:43 * sbp too 00:27:48 tav: you're using a Microsoft OS 00:28:22 Microsoft employees never learned their grammar. See also: Word's Grammar checker, numerous examples on google. 00:28:32 I guess they think ,s and 's are the same. 00:28:38 tav` didn't see most of what AaronSw pasted 00:28:51 AaronSw: yea 00:28:52 * AaronSw apologizes to the Microsoft employees who do know grammar 00:28:58 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m171-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:29:01 AaronSw: what you pasted included C1 control characters 00:29:03 try spell checking 'esp worldwide ltd' and then grammar checking it 00:29:09 heh 00:29:15 deltab, aha. 00:29:17 sbp (~sean@m171-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:30:06 AaronSw: Windows renders them as apostrophes, your software as commas 00:30:31 I believe I've seen some Linux software render them as commas too. 00:30:35 the logs show it correctly: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-22.txt 00:30:43 or incorrectly 00:31:02 half full/half empty 00:31:13 heh 00:31:23 well sbp and i and the logs see them correctly 00:31:27 obviously AaronSw is wrong 00:31:28 odd... in the logs i see like a backwards ` 00:31:33 * sbp ^5's tav 00:31:45 sbp and tav use Windows, so obviously they're wrong too. 00:31:56 I see 00:31:57 I see an apostrophie, but when I paste it into CygWin, it shows a backwards ` 00:32:06 ? neat 00:32:14 aah, i18n 00:32:19 heh 00:32:33 i hate how irc descends into this 00:32:49 * tav goes back to his todo 00:32:51 i think this only happens with geeks 00:33:20 true 00:33:26 yes, because everyone else uses Windows 00:33:40 http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/ 00:33:44 Note how Crucial followed up, and has a site that's a joy to use (most of the time), whereas Dell did not and has a super-sucky site. 00:34:32 speaking of fourmilab, fermilab is quite nearby. good place to go for birthday parties -- kids love atom accelerators 00:34:40 AaronSw: perhaps you could ask them to set their mail client to send only ASCII 00:34:57 At least it wasn't in HTML. 00:35:41 well, thank them for that 00:35:59 people should use text on the Web and HTML in emails. We'd all be... um... so much better off 00:36:14 "Dear [deleted], it appears your mail client, 42B5ACAC.132FCE88.e50eb3888bf3a3330156333d41a337a4, is sending proprietary Microsoft character." 00:36:42 you need an "a" or a plural in there 00:36:54 sending a proprietary Microsoft character/sending proprietary Microsoft characters 00:36:54 What an odd name for a mail client. 00:37:09 Yeah. Why not call it "Fred"? 00:37:20 perhaps they hashed the name or something 00:37:39 no, that's probably the version :-) 00:38:29 AaronSw: where did you get that from? 00:38:43 John: Sue, what version of Microsoft Outlook Express Mail Electronic Sender System are you using? 00:38:44 Sue: Well, I'm using 42B5ACAC.132FCE88.e50eb3888bf3a3330156333d41a337a4, of course. 00:38:44 John: What? You haven't upgraded to 42B5ACAC.132FCE88.e50eb3888bf3a3330166333d41a337a4?! 00:38:45 -- 00:38:50 deltab, the X-Mailer header. 00:40:34 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:40:44 sbp (~sean@m171-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:40:50 deltab, tidy with the -fix-mshtml-2000 option will do something like what the demoroniser appears to 00:42:45 oops, actually its word-2000: yes 00:43:07 I like how Tidy says: "This looks like HTML proprietary." 00:43:19 :Tidy a :Decrapulator . 00:44:11 I got Bryan Bell to run his designs thru Tidy. I'm quite excited. He wanted to use PNG and CSS, but he says that he's worried about browsers that don't support them. 00:44:22 He also says that Manila won't let him put in ALT tags. 00:44:30 ok, gotta run. dinner 00:46:03 that X-Mailer thing looks like a UUID 00:46:15 the last part 00:46:35 the first parts might be timestamp and IP address 00:48:31 1: "Hey fellas, get on board the Brad fad" 00:48:36 2: "What's that?" 00:48:41 1: "the fad of Brad" 00:48:47 3: "Er... right" 00:49:02 1: "Don't delay!" 00:49:50 water always acts so odd when it's hot 00:53:34 crap! I just remembered that I used to write plays 00:53:46 argh, another supressed memory surfaces 00:54:43 as long as I didn't walk around the stage clapping my hands and going, "come on people", I think I'm in the clear 01:11:45 * sbp rethinks EARL 01:11:54 what are we using it for? 01:13:21 I feel a bit guilty having been in a group that's been working for so long on a language that no-one actually uses yet 01:15:40 * sbp reads http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2001/10/f2f-notes#tools 01:16:10 the WCAG test case is important 01:29:57 lol! @ the plays 01:30:47 I directed a rendition of famous some poetry thing 01:30:56 I forget the name now, but it was famous, so you should know 01:31:36 I feel a bit guilty having been in a group that's been working for so long on a language that no-one actually uses yet 01:31:36 How do you think RDF Core feels? 01:33:22 Hmm, sometimes I catch myself singing songs from "Stan Freeberg modestly presents The United States Of America" 01:33:39 well, more like humming 01:38:43 * sbp returns 01:39:07 "Aaron Swartz, director" - sounds pretty good 01:39:14 RDF Core: lol! 01:40:32 perhaps if we made EARL non-RDF, it'd start "working" 01:41:31 * sbp is pretty sure that EARL would work, if used for anything... which is why I'm working on that API again 01:46:06 * AaronSw sets up procmail scripts to filter yahoogroups messages 01:46:40 you and your new toy 01:46:50 hee 01:46:55 it's fun 01:52:11 hmm, i see a recommendation of maildrop 01:54:27 this looks useful: http://bdg.centrin.net.id/~budsan02/mailfilter.htm 01:55:25 aaaaargh:- 01:55:25 [[[ 01:55:26 File "earlapi.py", line 73, in test 01:55:26 parser = xml.sax.make_parser() 01:55:26 File "/usr/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 93, in make_parser 01:55:26 raise SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None) 01:55:28 xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found 01:55:30 ]]] 01:55:37 heh, doom! 01:55:38 gah 01:55:49 Notavailable 01:55:53 fink install python2.2-xml # shoulda used debian 01:56:10 lol @ No tav available 01:56:24 ailable 01:56:27 .wn ailable 01:56:34 .dict ailable 01:56:34 http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgi-bin/http_webster?ailable 01:56:35 SAX ails tav 01:56:42 i guess it makes his client go beepy 01:56:48 yea 01:56:53 i got a double beep 01:57:01 * tav adds to his ignore list 01:58:23 argh, damn SAX 01:59:04 tav needs to expand his vocabulary. learn new words like: 01:59:05 all' ottava 01:59:06 atavism 01:59:06 atavisms 01:59:06 atavistic 01:59:06 atavistically 01:59:07 Batavia 01:59:09 Batavian 01:59:11 Batavian Republic 01:59:13 centavo 01:59:15 centavos 01:59:21 Civitavecchia 01:59:22 contraoctave 01:59:22 contraoctaves 01:59:23 cowlstaves 01:59:25 four-line octave 01:59:27 great octave 01:59:29 Gustav 01:59:31 Gustavo 01:59:33 Gustavo A Madero, Villa 01:59:35 Gustavus 01:59:37 hantavirus 01:59:39 pentavalent 01:59:41 Poltava 01:59:43 quarterstaves 01:59:46 rotavirus 01:59:47 rotaviruses 01:59:49 Stavanger 01:59:51 stave 01:59:53 staved 01:59:57 stave off 01:59:59 staves 02:00:01 stavesacre 02:00:03 stavesacres 02:00:05 staving 02:00:07 Stavropol' 02:00:09 Tamatave 02:00:11 tavern 02:00:13 taverna 02:00:15 tavernas 02:00:17 taverner 02:00:19 taverners 02:00:21 taverns 02:00:23 tipstaves 02:00:25 Vestavia 02:00:27 Vestavia Hills 02:00:29 Villa Gustavo A Madero 02:00:31 Vltava 02:00:33 -- 02:00:35 courtesy of m-w.com 02:00:52 .wn atavism 02:00:53 atavism defined as: 02:00:54 - n : a reappearance of an earlier characteristic [syn: {reversion}, {throwback}] 02:01:02 a-tav-ism 02:01:43 Heh, that's quite clever, actually. Whenever tav comes up with something that someone has already come up with before, we can just call it a tav ism. 02:01:59 oh man... 02:02:16 as if working with SAX isn't painful enough 02:02:23 * AaronSw giggles 02:02:42 .spell tav 02:02:53 potential spellings for tav are: PTV, TV, TVA, trav, tan, -ative, Tuva, teas, tem, tar, ter, terr, tease 02:03:07 Tuva music is...interesting 02:03:13 yea, i be a real cock tease 02:03:14 tav's an -ative. 02:04:04 hmz 02:05:29 well, it works on Windows, but not on CugWin... argh! 02:05:37 er... CygWin 02:06:41 ugh, I need Python2-xml 02:07:03 SAX: doom and despair in a handy package! 02:07:35 i hate cygwin python 02:07:44 apt-get install python2.2-xml 02:07:54 maybe I should use a DOM package - then people could port it fairly easy 02:07:56 ooh, thanks tav 02:07:58 and activepython22 ;p 02:08:07 $ apt-get install python2.2-xml 02:08:07 bash: apt-get: command not found 02:08:13 hehe 02:08:18 apt-get apt-get 02:08:21 i wonder if they have apt for cygwin. they have it for redhat 02:08:32 they are porting it for windows 02:08:32 .google apt cygwin 02:08:33 apt cygwin: http://lists.debian.org/deity/2000/deity-200003/msg00081.html 02:08:47 Mwahahaha! 02:08:48 [[[ 02:08:48 > Is there a cygwin port of apt done anywhere? 02:08:48 Not as far as I know. 02:08:48 """ 02:08:49 ]]] 02:08:52 """ 02:08:52 .google debian/win 02:08:53 debian/win: http://rocloiso.planet-d.net/larve/images 02:08:56 lol 02:08:59 .google debian/win32 02:09:03 debian/win32: http://lists.debian.org/debian-win32/2001/debian-win32-200111/threads.html 02:09:05 * sbp beat him to it, for a change 02:09:24 .google debian/win32 apt-get 02:09:25 debian/win32 apt-get: http://lists.debian.org/debian-win32/2001/debian-win32-200111/msg00005.html 02:09:59 what package format does cygwin use? RPMs? 02:10:36 tar.gz 02:11:02 * sbp tries getting the tar.gz from http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pyxml/ 02:11:04 or .exe apparently 02:11:05 ehm 02:11:07 tar.bz2 02:12:19 hmm http://sourceforge.net/projects/debian-cygwin is still in stage 1 02:13:19 sbp: or.... you could use activepython 02:13:34 WTF is activepython? 02:13:41 .google activepython download 02:13:41 for CygWin? 02:13:42 error: [Errno socket error] (111, 'Connection refused') 02:13:44 hmz 02:13:49 .time 02:13:50 error: [Errno socket error] (111, 'Connection refused') 02:15:17 great, well, that didn't work 02:15:20 .time 02:15:21 2002/01/22 02:16:59.4012 Universal 02:15:23 .google activepython download 02:15:24 activepython download: http://www.activestate.com/ActivePerl/download.htm 02:15:28 lol 02:15:31 (installing what's-its-name, that is) 02:15:43 .google activepython download -perl 02:15:44 activepython download -perl: http://www.openrpg.com/download.php 02:15:49 lol 02:15:55 .google activepython 02:15:56 activepython: http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython 02:15:56 tav, it's your lucky day 02:16:01 there! 02:16:34 google sucks as a personalised reputation server 02:16:47 it just doesn't like you 02:17:02 Huh? I have SAX working in Windows Python 2.2; why on earth would I need ActivePython for? 02:17:12 sbp: ah 02:17:19 then use windows python2.2 then 02:17:33 why are you wasting time w/ cygwin ? 02:17:35 more wisdom from the mouth of tav 02:18:13 talk about going around in circles 02:18:24 talk about it! 02:18:26 well? why are using cygwin python? 02:18:43 Because CygWin rocks 02:18:47 cygwin does 02:18:55 but doesn't mean you have to use cygwin python 02:19:31 ooh, you're right! 02:19:34 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/python.exe" earlapi.py 02:19:34 Sandman #62 found 02:19:47 add it to your path 02:20:09 i can send you my l33t .bash_profile if you want 02:20:50 sandman #62? 02:20:51 please 02:21:15 Yay, I figured out how to use /etc/hosts and NetInfo in OS X. 02:22:40 ooh... do share. i found how to load it, but i have to load it every time i make a change 02:22:54 Oh, well, that was pretty much my discovery: how to load it. 02:22:58 oh 02:23:16 morbus showed me how to do that 02:23:23 Is there a decent reference to NetInfo out there, or am I just blind? 02:23:35 (I'm willing to accept the latter possibility.) 02:23:57 .google macwrite /etc/hosts netinfo 02:23:57 macwrite /etc/hosts netinfo: http://www.macwindows.com/MacOSX.html 02:24:06 .google site:macwrite.com /etc/hosts netinfo 02:24:07 no results found. 02:24:09 hmm 02:24:12 .google site:macwrite.com /etc/hosts 02:24:13 no results found. 02:24:17 .google site:www.macwrite.com /etc/hosts 02:24:18 no results found. 02:24:20 odd 02:24:38 http://tav.espians.com/bash_profile 02:24:53 I finally found a brief mention of /etc/hosts and niload in a PDF at http://www.sjrowe.btinternet.co.uk/docs/macosx-tips.pdf 02:25:42 maybe http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/pdf/UnderstandingUsingNetInfo.pdf 02:26:03 hmm, audiogalaxy is offering a gold version for a "small monthly fee" 02:27:22 Hmm. That's just so clearly named. It can't be it. 02:27:28 heh 02:28:22 here's the note I wrote to myself: 02:28:27 sudo niload -v hosts / < /etc/hosts 02:28:36 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m3-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:28:55 sbp (~sean@m3-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:29:56 There... jot that down in me local wiki. 02:31:37 man the tidy debian package is out of date 02:32:13 right, now, what was I doing? Oh yeah, writing an XML parser 02:35:37 rss 1.0 > 0.92 right? 02:35:48 in terms of quality 02:36:04 heh, heh, heh 02:36:09 no, because Aaron worked on it 02:36:47 well, i was hoping for why it's better, besides "its rdf" 02:37:07 better? 02:37:28 depends what you want to do with it 02:37:30 * sbp doesn't know enough about 0.92 to comment 02:38:04 yes 02:38:14 1.0 good 02:38:21 why? 02:38:28 because it's RDF 02:38:36 x10ible 02:38:45 er... x10sible 02:38:48 y 02:39:16 0.92 is easier to parse 02:39:21 hmm 02:39:37 what other benefit is there to it? 02:39:38 hm? 02:39:48 which? 02:39:55 .92 02:40:03 Dave Winer likes it :-) 02:40:21 orchard parse all 02:40:30 no type. hand lotion 02:42:04 ^me 02:43:07 ? 02:43:41 he has lotion on his hands... 02:43:48 I was going to say.. x10ible. Does that mean it drives wireless cameras looking at young girls, and makes your lights blink on and off? 02:43:58 lol 02:44:39 makes billboard pop-up too 03:01:09 giggle: "The FBI agents were nice and really just wanted to know if I knew anyone with access to bio type stuff. I told them that a friend of mine has a cute roomate who studdies biology. They were under-wellmed." 03:01:17 - http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/1/17/191058/297 03:05:06 * sbp tries Expat instead 03:05:17 EFF RSS: http://www.eff.org/news/eff_news.rss 03:07:53 Wooho! Native widgets: http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2127 03:10:04 hmm: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=64512&action=view 03:10:31 it's purty 03:11:21 rss .93 ? 03:12:59 ugh, enough, enough 03:13:10 just go with 1.0. why are you asking? 03:13:18 wtf is .93 ? 03:13:24 just saw it in the eff one 03:13:31 Umm... so, does Expat allow for subclassing, or what? Doesn't seem to... 03:13:32 it's like 0.92 except with more random tags 03:15:16 ah, no, it does 03:49:23 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:50:28 * AaronSw gets dnscache running on vorpal 03:51:39 it's now an ORSC-compatible dns server 03:56:51 fun 04:18:17 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m21-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:18:35 sbp (~sean@m21-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:25:23 heh, this EARL API is quite funny 04:25:35 it reads like a story, since I haven't deleted any of the early 04:25:38 early junk 04:25:48 so there's the initial SAX tests, which all failed 04:25:52 then a bit more hacking 04:25:56 then some swearing 04:26:02 then a decision to use Expat 04:26:05 and then the Expat stuff 04:54:12 a tragicomedy 05:14:29 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:14:42 sbp (~sean@m35-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:15:54 tansaku (~sam@n144-174.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:29:42 Things-Fall-Apart.com will give me $35 to put up a banner ad on my review of "Things Fall Apart". crazy 05:32:40 ooh, do it, do it! 05:32:53 .google "Things Fall Apart" Aaron 05:32:53 "Things Fall Apart" Aaron: http://underwire.blogspot.com 05:33:01 heh 05:34:00 sbp, how do I answer this: "What am I supposed to to with table summaries? I don't have a clue why they are important or even how to notate them. [help]" 05:35:10 summaries? like, captions? 05:35:24 he's responding to a Tidy complaint 05:35:38 do with them: put a little description of what the table does/is/should do, and make sure you style it with CSS, otherwise it'll suck 05:35:54 style it? isn't it an attribute? 05:36:26 .google w3c table summaries 05:36:27 w3c table summaries: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/1998OctDec/0088.html 05:36:35 Hmm... yeah 05:36:52 * sbp was thinking of the caption element - what's that for, then? Pff... 05:37:04 [[[ 05:37:05 summary = text [CS] 05:37:05 This attribute provides a summary of the table's purpose and structure for user agents rendering to non-visual media such as speech and Braille. 05:37:10 ]]] - somewhere in the HTML docs 05:37:18 - http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables#edef-TABLE 05:37:58 and for caption: When present, the CAPTION element's text should describe the nature of the table. 05:38:38 that's... um... well, it's HTML, so not all that surprising 05:39:24 I favor over summary= for i18n, but the semantics in the draft seem to suggest that summary= is more important 05:39:51 * sbp adds it to his huge list of "stuff that sucks in HTML" 05:40:14 Bryan on why he doesn't use CSS: "I don't want to have to leave flip comments for people who don't use Internet Explorer." 05:40:43 as to the difference between purpose and nature: they should have coordinated the vocabulary with the XLink group :-) 05:40:52 aaaah 05:41:32 what are the latest stats on CSS browser usage? 05:41:51 dunno. I try not to think about it too much, because it scares the crap out of me 05:42:23 actually, there aren't a great deal of good stats. places, because they're all so incomplete - surveying just a few browsers 05:42:43 so you can't really take any of them as being close to "the truth" 05:43:03 of course -- they're statistics 05:43:06 plus, there are varying levels of CSS compliance, which makes it even more confusing 05:43:20 58.7% of all statistics are toal lies 05:43:24 er... total 05:43:41 i just need some lies that support my point ;-) 05:43:55 aha 05:44:11 .google CSS browser usage Internet Explorer Netscape 05:44:12 CSS browser usage Internet Explorer Netscape: http://www.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Browsers/&e=922 05:44:29 ooh, that was successful 05:44:33 .google CSS browser usage 05:44:34 CSS browser usage: http://www.wiserways.com/web-tech/Presentations/browser.htm 05:45:04 there you go 05:50:49 Gotta run 05:50:56 c'ya 05:50:59 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 09:41:44 Emberwild has quit () 09:51:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:52:18 tansaku (~sam@h134-132.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:28:17 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:42:52 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:04:06 Hmm. I was digging Radio 8, but now I find myself coming back to AmphetaDesk. 15:19:51 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:19:51 deltab has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:19:51 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:19:51 tansaku has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 15:20:19 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:20:19 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 15:20:19 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 15:20:19 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 15:20:24 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 15:21:46 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:15:33 sbp (~sean@m762-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:21:45 if you are a spammer, please send email to spam@swartzfam.com or junk@swartzfam.com. If you're not, don't send mail there unless you want it to be classified as spam 16:22:21 ooh, they changed http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/docs/ela/ela_fold.html so that it now read "phonemic" rather than "phenomic" 16:22:32 heh 16:22:38 a small victory 16:22:57 indeed :-) 16:23:29 Fortune: "If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane." 16:23:37 heh, heh 16:24:43 ooh, spamassassin 2.0 is coming out soon 16:33:52 * sbp listens to the Beach Boys 16:52:06 Hmm... Expat seems to think that "" is a valid XML document 16:52:34 oh, perhaps it's non-well-formedness checking 16:53:05 yep, it seems so 16:53:10 huh? 16:56:57 ah, xml.dom.minidom is better 16:57:47 how do i install a product in zope? 16:58:34 * sbp guesses that that particular question is not aimed at him 16:58:45 i guess i just throw them in lib/python/Products 17:04:23 what kind of a port is 9673? who's going to remember that. 17:04:31 heh, heh 17:04:33 heh. "Congratulations, your Zope is up and running. To view some shameless Zope propaganda, please visit the included QuickStart material." 17:04:42 it'd be alright if it was your PIN number, or something 17:04:48 oops. 17:04:55 so, who forced you at gunpoint to install Zope? 17:04:56 * AaronSw goes to change his PIN number 17:05:01 apt-get 17:05:03 heh, heh 17:05:15 i typed apt-get install python and it downloaded Zope. it's clearly been brainwashed. 17:05:23 heh, yes 17:07:31 it wants the password i gave it when i installed. i never gave it a password. it says if i forgot it's in the access file in the zope directory. there is no such file. 17:07:53 I once tried rewriting Zope in perl. 17:08:06 what happened? 17:08:23 did your computer explode? 17:08:24 Well, it's in a SourceForge project, but I ran out of free time and never picked it up again. 17:08:37 ah 17:08:51 I got pretty far, then started thinking it needed at least a 2/3 rewrite or maybe a re-implementation in Java 17:09:11 OK, so I run their password setting utility on the nonexistant password file. i fill out all the prompts and then I get a Python error: 17:09:11 File "zpasswd.py", line 113, in generate_passwd 17:09:12 return pw 17:09:12 UnboundLocalError: local variable 'pw' referenced before assignment 17:09:35 ugh 17:09:40 I liked the idea of serving up objects by URL, but hated all the things like bobo_modification_time laying around in Zope 17:10:03 most zope programmers hate them to, but they abide. 17:10:20 will they go away in zope3? 17:10:23 I tried to abide, but it kept making me grind my teeth. 17:10:30 ok, so I go to RTFM but all the documentation is in .txt.gz. what's up with that? 17:10:32 you can use the zpublisher part independepntly of zope anyways 17:10:44 that part is what does the url mapping to objects and methods. 17:11:03 for an example checkout some the ZLite package from cvs.ebysarna.com 17:11:12 I need to get away from perl is what I need to do 17:11:20 AaronSw: yes, most of the ugliness will disappear from zope3. 17:11:41 hmm.. bad link 17:11:48 Yup, unknown host. 17:12:24 http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/pylib/ZLite/ 17:12:31 i'm starting to think the compilers of the Debian package hated zope or something 17:13:04 that also includes stuff for the aspect oriented programming project for python, transwarp. 17:13:11 * sbp runs his new AltTag checker over w3.org, and finds that some fail - ooh! 17:13:26 If Zope3 causes me less teeth grinding, I'd be elated. 17:13:29 ah:- 17:13:30 [[[ 17:13:30

    src="Icons/right" /> 17:13:31 whats the name of the zope in java project? 17:13:31 ]]] 17:13:42 .google Zope in Java 17:13:43 Zope in Java: http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZSP 17:14:22 zope3 is less magic more explicit, interfaces/unit tests for everything, and a sane design. 17:14:47 OK, so I created my Zope user, but when I go to the management screen it says "You are not authorized to access this resource." 17:15:18 did you give the user the manager role? 17:15:27 how? 17:15:31 i can't log in, remember 17:15:43 shutdown zope. 17:15:50 go to the directory where zope lives 17:15:52 type 17:16:05 python zpasswd.py -u aaronsw -p secret inituser 17:16:08 restart zope 17:16:28 oh, it's called inituser... it said it was called access 17:16:46 hmm, nope - same error 17:16:56 it can be, but that does something slightly different and more annoying imo, or at least it used to. 17:17:19 huh... is this a naked zope or is it being fronted by something else? 17:17:55 it's ZServer being run bu debian 17:18:03 its the debian package? 17:18:07 yeah 17:18:58 than their probably running some sort of wierd packaging scheme.... sigh.. i could walk you through this, but to be honest it would be easier (for both of us) if you grabbed a source version. 17:19:08 heh 17:20:33 i'm not saying anything about .debs and dpkg and friends. just that zope can be setup in a lot of different ways, and that vendors tend to set things up differently depending on their proclivities. 17:20:33 why don't you install a real server instead? 17:21:29 Gregor Hoffleit is responsible for this Debian package. 17:23:13 if you really want to stick with it, you have to track down the start files, check the env vars, figure out where the maintainer setup INSTANCE_HOME and SOFTWARE_HOME and then do the zpasswd thing in the instance home. 17:23:34 alternatively a google search might help 17:23:40 .google debian zope INSTANCE_HOME 17:23:41 debian zope INSTANCE_HOME: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/How-To 17:23:49 .google debian zope INSTANCE_HOME maintainer 17:23:49 debian zope INSTANCE_HOME maintainer: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2000-November/120961.html 17:24:07 ;) 17:24:12 hmm: 17:24:16 # If you want to use INSTANCE_HOME, enable the following line 17:24:17 #ZOPECTLOPTS="-I /var/lib/zope-dir" 17:24:50 ugh.. and he's using the zctl script, of which their only half-dozen versions floating around. 17:25:18 ok, ok, i'll get the src 17:25:23 Zope-2.4.3-src.tgz ? 17:25:37 i would just go with 2.5b4 17:25:41 not the x86 binary? 17:25:44 nope 17:26:11 * AaronSw carefully deletes the /view before wgetting 17:26:20 i love glyph's sig quote. 17:26:32 which is? 17:26:47 'you are in a maze of twisted little applications, all remarkably consistent' 17:26:51 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m340-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 17:27:02 heh 17:27:10 sbp (~sean@m340-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:34:13 if i and picky: raise SystemError, i 17:34:14 SystemError: 256 17:34:14 a 17:34:27 does anyone here have a recommendation on how to cook sweet potatoes? 17:34:39 aaronsw what version of python 17:34:42 cd zope_src 17:34:46 python wo_pcgi.py 17:35:12 zope2.5 needs python2.1 17:35:19 python2.2 17:35:25 nope, that won't work 17:35:37 hmmph 17:35:42 z3 will be the first official platform to use python2.2 17:35:52 you can get 2.5 to work, but it requires elbow grease. 17:35:59 it sucks, i know. 17:36:14 but their are alot of changes internally in python at 2.2 17:36:57 actually in z3 extensionClass and friends aren't needed, cause they use the new style objects, so the only things in c are performance enhancement. 17:38:12 with 2.1 i get: 17:38:13 if i and picky: raise SystemError, i 17:38:13 SystemError: 512 17:38:18 double the systemerror! 17:38:37 * hazmat greps through 17:40:37 hmm... (i'm losing hope), probably need to clean out the directory from the 2.2 attempt, just rm and untar again, and try to run the script again with 2.1. 17:41:49 i'm running: 17:41:49 $ python2.1 w_pcgi.py 17:41:58 wo_pcgi.py 17:41:59 right? 17:42:22 i deleted the directory and tried again, same error 17:42:33 oh... above it is: 17:42:35 ././../Components/BTree/BTree.c:2003: `EXTENSIONCLASS_PYTHONICATTR_FLAG' undeclared here (not in a function) 17:42:35 ././../Components/BTree/BTree.c:2003: initializer element is not constant 17:42:35 ././../Components/BTree/BTree.c:2003: (near initialization for `BTreeType.class_flags') 17:42:35 make: *** [BTree.o] Error 1 17:42:35 T 17:42:51 what gcc version do you have? 17:43:10 $ gcc --version 17:43:10 2.95.4 17:43:30 anyone here have a machine at MIT? 17:44:25 aaronsw, i'm going to migrate some of this to #zope to get some help. 17:44:32 heh, ok 17:55:52 gasp! 17:55:52 [puzzlement] 17:55:52 [surprise] 17:56:01 yes, I thought I'd go and observe the poor fool 17:56:07 s/fool/fools/ 18:02:03 Wow. Amazon made their first-ever profit. 18:02:15 excellent 18:02:51 YET, from #zope has said he can't help because he's busy. 18:03:19 so, its SOL time. 18:03:55 cause i don't know what the problem is, and i need to get back to work myself at the moment. bummer. 18:05:08 oh well 18:05:10 .acronym SOL 18:05:12 SOL: Sadly Outta Luck (polite form), Office of the Solicitor (US Department of Labor), Satellite Of Love, Scandinavia Online, Seafarer's Open Learning System, Semantic Operating Language, Sequence Order List, Shadows of Luclin (Everquest expansion), Shazzam - Outta Luck (Gomer Pyle polite form), Shoot-Out Loss, Short On Landing, Simply Out of Luck (polite form), Simulation Oriented Language, 18:05:13 Small Out-Line Integrated Circuit, Smile Out Loud, Sobbing Out Loud, Solenoid, Solicitation, Solution, Sons of Liberty 18:06:05 'Common sense is creeping into the Georgia State legislature, where a sweeping zero-tolerance-for-weapons-in-schools bill has resulted in discplinary action being taken against students who bring such potentially dangerous items as a Tweety Bird keychain fob to school. Now, Georgia lawmakers are trying to modify "zero tolerance" to include "common sense."' 18:07:24 @ http://www.oreillynet.com/lpt/a//webservices/2002/01/18/brewster.html 18:07:29 A: http://www.oreillynet.com/lpt/a//webservices/2002/01/18/brewster.html from AaronSw 18:07:31 A:|How the Wayback Machine Works 18:07:33 titled item A 18:08:26 A::With [Richard Koman|http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/102] and [Brewster Kahle|http://www.kahle.org/Brewster/] 18:08:27 commented item A 18:08:48 .wc kibosh 18:09:01 .wn kibosh 18:09:02 kibosh defined as: 18:09:03 - v : stop from happening or developing; "Block his election"; "Halt the process" [syn: {stop}, {halt}, {block}] 18:09:59 cool, xena is the key to a good vocabulary ;) 18:10:19 hee 18:10:56 A::" As you'll read in this in interview, the folks at the Archive have turned clusters of PCs into a single parallel computer running the biggest database in existence -- and wrote their own operating system, P2, which allows programmers with no expertise in parallel systems to program the system." 18:10:56 commented item A 18:12:10 A::100 terabytes, 200 queries per second, on 400 Linux and FreeBSD machines. 18:12:10 commented item A 18:16:01 A::"We program the computer using a technology called P2, which we'll be putting out as open source for other people to able to operate parallel clusters of Linux or FreeBSD or Solaris boxes. P2 is a Perl script that takes commands and runs them on remote boxes, splits up data to be able to run on them, and then brings back and correlates the data." 18:16:03 commented item A 18:17:08 A::They plan to let users run P2 scripts over the archive. "And then our challenge will be how to manage, say, 10 to 20 programs running at the same time over the data sets and not have people clobber each other. Kind of timesharing, but at the hundreds-of-computers level." 18:17:09 commented item A 18:31:53 Hooray, I managed to create a program which reports in EARL whether or not a page fails the "Alt Test"! 18:34:16 heh: "Where the Library of Congress has a budget of $450 million a year, you can be sure we don't." 18:34:30 A::"Where the Library of Congress has a budget of $450 million a year, you can be sure we don't." 18:34:33 commented item A 18:36:30 cool! 18:36:58 tav: "from what i can understand, fake ids are the accepted norm in the usa. i believe that really says something about the society that would breed such a culture." 18:37:19 tav: 'side note: just realised that my ideal aieru (the pen of the 21st century?) would be in the form of a katana. gives a whole new meaning to "the pen is mightier than the sword".' 18:38:37 heh, rael... http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/archives/000121.shtml 18:38:43 aieru? katana? 18:38:54 aieru = wearable computer; katana = sword 18:39:15 I can just imagine Rael saying "That's ever so slightly surprising!" 18:39:24 heh, that's quite neat 18:39:34 * sbp can't imagine Rael saying it, but it's still funny 18:39:58 he has a funny british-californian accent 18:42:46 Rael has the accent of a Brit who's ever-so-slightly-surprised to find himself in California. 18:44:17 fear my mighty XML well-formedness and alt tag checking Python script! 18:44:23 aaaah! 18:44:34 (please don't run it on my site. please don't run it on my site. ...) 18:44:51 Mwahahaha! 18:45:21 * sbp runs it on his site 18:45:34 a simple "print doAltTest('http://aaronsw.com/')" is all it takes 18:45:47 fuck me, you're the first site to pass! 18:45:56 [[[ 18:46:00 _:fpreqfj . 18:46:00 . 18:46:00 . 18:46:01 accesstool.py . 18:46:04 _:fpreqfj _:lhonley . 18:46:05 _:fpreqfj . 18:46:05 _:fpreqfj _:piyalmb . 18:46:09 _:lhonley . 18:46:10 _:lhonley . 18:46:14 _:piyalmb . 18:46:14 _:piyalmb "AltTestcase" . 18:46:15 _:piyalmb "http://infomesh.net/2002/access/#AltTest" . 18:46:17 _:piyalmb "Test for all alt tags in document" . 18:46:19 ]]] 18:46:21 i have no idea what that means, but woohoo! 18:46:24 :-) 18:46:39 where did you get variable names like lhonley from? 18:47:08 import random # 8,031,810,176 combinations 18:47:08 for x in range(7): label += string.lowercase[random.randrange(0, 25)] 18:47:08 return '_:'+label 18:47:24 cwazy 18:47:36 what's the point? 18:47:41 for each pair of thingies, there's a 8,031,810,176/2 chance of a collison. I'm fairly optimistic 18:47:52 thingies? 18:47:54 s/collison/collision/ 18:47:58 bNodes 18:48:10 why not just use set names? 18:48:20 nah, too easy :-) 18:48:35 because it's generated in pieces - like building blocks of EARL 18:48:57 why not have a little namedispenser: return 'page' + n 18:49:19 n? 18:49:30 n is an increasing number 18:49:37 and page is whatever it is the bNode identifies 18:50:33 well, in fact, it still checks for bNode clashes, and I'm *hoping* that one day it will raise the error, because it'll be a story to tell at parties (or #swhack, anyway), but I really do think that a one-in-a-billion chance is good enough :-) 18:50:52 s/, b/. B/ 18:51:01 er... the second one 18:51:02 What kind of parties do you go to? ... because I want to be invited :) 18:51:10 Heh, heh 18:51:42 well, #swhack has been one big party since 2001-07-25. Well, kinda 18:52:12 "The Longest Cocktail Party" 18:52:14 Where's the booze? 18:52:15 * sbp notes that he had to prefix the first "well" because of the damn commenting syntax 18:52:22 you have to bring your own 18:52:37 yeah, very HHGTTG-esque 18:52:38 .google "The Longest Cocktail Party" beatles 18:52:39 "The Longest Cocktail Party" beatles: http://www.canongate.net/mojo/mojo.taf?_p=5906 18:52:45 Ahh, okay. I've got some great nacho cheese dip I can bring. 18:53:13 oh, interesting. I was thinking of the world's longest party in The Hitchhiker's Guide 18:53:36 ooh, nacho cheese 18:53:41 buy your copy: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1841950890/coolbooks02 18:53:58 Funny, I just discovered someone had AudioGalaxy'd me HHGTG in mp3 and it came up in my shuffle. Nice surprise. 18:54:02 Homer: Nacho, nacho man. I want to be a nacho man 18:54:27 the radio show? 18:54:50 Yup, the BBC radio show. 18:57:45 Gotta run 19:13:17 so i grab the binary Zope and run ./install: 19:13:19 There were errors during Python module compilation. 19:13:19 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 19:14:14 wha? 19:14:15 from __future__ import rested_snopes 19:17:02 Crap, sbp left. Was just starting to try getting rdfwiki going 19:17:13 i can (sorta) help with that 19:17:32 sbp has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:17:41 Well, mostly I just have the rdfwiki.py and it wants a pkl but doesn't create one. 19:17:47 Wondering if I'm missing some files. 19:18:23 i remember solving this... 19:18:42 logster, grep rdfwiki.*pkl 19:21:02 I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'rdfwiki.*pkl' 19:21:03 0) 2002-01-22 19:18:42 logster, grep rdfwiki.*pkl 19:21:04 1) 2002-01-22 19:17:41 Well, mostly I just have the rdfwiki.py and it wants a pkl but doesn't create one. 19:21:05 2) 2001-09-05 03:53:23 er... create a rdfwiki.pkl file somewhere, too 19:21:10 logster is a speed daemon 19:21:10 i think i just did a touch rdfwiki.pkl 19:21:31 yeah, see 19:22:50 man, that was back when sbp said "he he he" and we jumped at the prescence of deltab. 19:29:22 One or more of the available Robert Morrises are speaking at EtCon 19:29:44 I think I'll call it HAP2002 19:29:55 maybe HAP02 19:33:53 OHAP 19:53:22 @ http://www.maine.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=1151&group=webcast 19:53:27 B: Maine Indymedia - webcast news from AaronSw 19:53:33 B:|Bill introduced that would reinstate draft in the US and US territories. 19:53:35 titled item B 19:54:15 B::Under this Bill, everyone between the ages of 18 and 22 in the US and territories (an estimated 9 million people) would have to go thru basic military training. 19:54:16 commented item B 19:54:20 B::via Morbus 19:54:21 commented item B 19:54:36 B::s/everyone/men/ -- it's optional for women 19:54:37 commented item B 20:02:19 if this goes thru expect a lot of sex change operations 20:04:42 Ack. Finally back from some net outages over here 20:05:07 wb. we were talking about the bill to reinstate the draft 20:05:15 in the US and territories 20:05:16 Eek! 20:05:22 yeah, exactly 20:06:02 And there was just a commentator on NPR the other day saying how the US army is so great because it's a volunteer army. 20:06:42 but wouldn't it be much better if everyone got to volunteer! 20:06:55 That's doubleplusungood 20:09:04 B:: Checkout the [Kuro5hin coverage|http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/1/17/204425/567] and [info from the Congress|http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03598:] 20:09:05 commented item B 20:16:21 time for a walk 21:01:08 logster, grep rdfwiki.*pkl 21:01:34 I'm logging. I found 5 answers for 'rdfwiki.*pkl' (showing 0...4) 21:01:35 0) 2002-01-22 21:01:08 logster, grep rdfwiki.*pkl 21:01:36 1) 2002-01-22 19:21:10 i think i just did a touch rdfwiki.pkl 21:01:37 2) 2002-01-22 19:18:42 logster, grep rdfwiki.*pkl 21:01:38 3) 2002-01-22 19:17:41 Well, mostly I just have the rdfwiki.py and it wants a pkl but doesn't create one. 21:01:39 4) 2001-09-05 03:53:23 er... create a rdfwiki.pkl file somewhere, too 21:02:37 Strange, the 2001-09-05 chatlog is not linked in at http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 21:02:45 But it exists, it seems. 21:03:18 sbp (~sean@m367-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:05:58 sbp: Oh, hey. I'm poking at rdfwiki but it needs an rdfwiki.pkl Is there a oneliner or something to create one? 21:06:52 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m115-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 21:06:56 D'oh 21:07:11 sbp (~sean@m115-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:11:11 Ah hah. I figured out what to do to make the rdfwiki go. 21:12:54 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m402-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 21:13:13 sbp (~sean@m402-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:13:55 * sbp waves to deus, and catches up from the logs 21:14:15 you have to create an empty text file called rdfwiki.pkl, but I guess you figured that out 21:14:16 Haloo! Looks like you've got some turbulence. 21:14:49 Well, I created rdfwiki.pkl, made it webserver-writable, and then went to rdfwiki?go=yes 21:15:53 did it work? 21:16:02 It seems to have worked, yes. 21:16:30 excellent! 21:16:53 it's not all that flashy, but it's bare-bones working 21:17:07 in fact, later versions have more features, but they're a bit rougher, so I didn't put them onlin 21:17:15 it could do with being re-written 21:17:22 Now I just have to figure out exactly what it's for. And do lots of reading on all things semantic web 21:18:08 heh. It's just a Wiki, but one with Semantic Web Power(TM)(C) 21:18:41 if you go to ?showstore=yes or something, it gives you a dump of the stuff in the Wiki as RDF 21:19:19 and people should be able to add in huge RDF files of their own - the idea is that everybody contributes to it, like a database of documentation and ordinary data 21:19:32 and then the CGI lets you browse it, as if it were a big database 21:19:46 I think my problem is that I haven't fully grokked RDF yet. 21:19:56 ah. Try semanticWeb-long and swintro 21:20:01 .google semanticWeb-long 21:20:02 semanticWeb-long: http://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-long 21:20:05 .google swintro 21:20:06 swintro: http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro 21:20:09 * sbp bows 21:21:16 * AaronSw is back from his walk, and now has revolutionary fervor in him 21:21:23 deus_x, want to join the plex project? 21:21:28 ugh. You should walk about less :-) 21:21:34 it affects your brain somehow 21:21:44 heh heh 21:22:01 I want 110% from everbody before the o'reilly con. 21:22:02 deus, are you still there? 21:22:13 Hmm... what if we can only provide 107%? 21:22:25 Fine, I'll take it. 21:22:26 the FIA would be alright with that, wouldn't they? 21:22:36 FIA? 21:23:11 uh huh 21:23:16 What's that? 21:23:29 .google FIA 107% rules 21:23:29 feck 21:23:29 .google FIA 107% rule 21:23:30 no results found. 21:23:32 no results found. 21:23:40 xena? 21:24:03 * deus_x adds them to his wiki. 21:24:17 Whoa, net's back up? 21:24:28 aha. 21:24:49 Wow. Our net keeps going up and down here, but I'm IRCing through a proxy which stays connected and logs while I'm gone 21:24:51 http://www.atlasf1.com/97/san/gogos.html 21:25:04 yeah, dircproxy is cool 21:25:11 Yup, that's the one. 21:25:17 * sbp wants that 21:25:23 i asked you! 21:25:29 did you? ooh! ooh! 21:25:35 Oh, and re: Plex project, sure but not sure how helpful I'll be yet :) 21:26:05 OK, so here's the thing: we only have to get the Plex running once, and then make it upgrade itself. By the time it gets made illegal (if that happens) it'll be too late. 21:26:19 lol 21:26:21 I made the mistake of playing with the regex triggers in dircproxy, for fun I had it page me when anyone said "monkey". Then I let slip that I'd done that. 21:26:29 lol 21:26:38 monkey 21:27:15 So all day, my phone was visited by members of #perl on rhizomatic.net. monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey 21:27:32 oh man 21:28:51 Hmm. I really need to play with python more. 21:29:09 you could play with it while working on the Plex ;) 21:29:19 My brane is far too saturated with perl. 21:30:24 * deus_x wanders back to plexdev.org 21:30:59 Ooh, Chord. I've heard of that. 21:33:17 aw, bummer 21:33:30 hm? 21:33:33 erm... because if you hadn't heard of Chord, you'd be... 21:33:35 oh, forget it 21:34:15 [more wonderful off-log shenanigans spill over into the regular logs] 21:40:12 so, deus_x, want to hear my big plex speech 21:40:14 ? 21:40:35 AaronSw: Sure :) I may get dragged away to a meeting though 21:40:54 ok. i'll make it short then. 21:41:23 But my logging ears are always open :) 21:41:52 we're going to build a worldwide decentralized network that will do three things: 21:41:52 - let you get any file you want quickly 21:41:53 - let you ask questions of the entire Internet 21:41:53 - let you leave messages for anyone who wants to listen to them 21:42:31 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:42:40 we want to make it a universal protocol. a system on which you can layer anything, and in doing so make it easy, decentralized and leaverage the network effects of the other parts of the system. 21:42:44 sbp (~sean@m402-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 21:43:55 Sounds like a sufficiently broad set of goals :) 21:43:55 does that make sense? 21:44:01 heh 21:44:27 Kind of. Part of my problem, is I'm just starting to read up on semantic web concepts, which I only partly had before 21:44:52 so the basic idea of the semantic web is that we give types to links. 21:45:05 so instead of -> 21:45:14 it'd be: --worksFor--> 21:45:17 Like, I don't immediately grok the greatness of a triple. 21:45:31 a triple is just a typed link 21:45:34 Oh, is that it then? type name value ? 21:45:38 yep 21:45:44 heh, return of the arrows 21:45:48 except we call them subject ---predicate--> object . 21:47:21 they're broad goals but we think they're definitely realizable 21:47:32 Ahh okay, bit of a difference (scanning through semanticWeb-long right now) 21:47:52 a difference between what? 21:48:20 Well, it's not just as simple as "boolean eatsFood yes" so not just type name value 21:48:36 oh... i see, no it's different than that. 21:48:55 it'd be more like: 21:48:55 john eatsFood yes 21:48:55 eatsFood objectType boolean 21:49:27 Heh.. meta ad infinitum 21:52:34 Okay, my brane is on the ground floor of triples. Will have to poke around a bit more to grok it. 21:53:47 feel free to ask qs in here or #rdfig 21:54:09 Oh I probably will :) I have the notion that I should be interested in this, even if I don't quite have it yet. 21:57:27 feel free to visit #plex too 22:09:34 hmm, they moved the date of EtCon later. 22:09:44 now it's immediately after WWW2002... urgh 22:29:02 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m15-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 22:29:22 sbp (~sean@m15-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:33:09 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 22:33:20 sbp (~sean@m15-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:35:36 sbp, youd dirc is up on port 5700 22:36:00 hooray! 22:36:03 IP address? 22:36:09 vorpal.logicerror.com 22:36:20 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 22:37:09 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 22:37:39 hey there 22:37:49 ooh 22:37:55 * sbp waves from Vorpal 22:38:34 O.K., let's test the disconnection thingy 22:38:38 whee 22:38:43 bye sbp 22:38:45 we'll miss you 22:38:51 maybe not... 22:40:03 * AaronSw twidles thumbs 22:40:57 cool, it works! 22:40:59 whee 22:41:01 bye sbp 22:41:03 we'll miss you 22:41:05 maybe not... 22:41:07 * AaronSw twidles thumbs 22:41:09 did you say anything else? 22:41:30 nope 22:42:05 ooh, and I didn't disconnect :-) 22:42:14 many thanks, Aaron! 22:42:22 of course 22:42:44 i remembered when i first offered it to you. you said something like "why would i want that?" 22:43:22 I guess I was just used to being off of IRC more than being on it 22:43:42 now, with more connectivity, the disconnection spots are more annoying 22:43:52 yeah, i suppose so 22:44:01 you can always /dircproxy quit when you really want to go 22:44:14 why would I want to go? :-) 22:44:26 so you're going to be on 24/7 now? 22:44:38 uh oh... we'll have to cancel all the sbp-bashing parties 22:44:43 if that's alright. That's what you do :-) 22:45:22 heh, this feel sort of like mr.slimey just meeting eyrinthia 22:45:40 (i had to use that analogy sometime) 22:45:57 eyrinthia? 22:46:07 in "True Names" 22:47:12 .google "True Names" eyrinthia 22:47:13 no results found. 22:50:09 i probably misspelled it 22:50:50 erythrina 22:51:18 cool: http://members.tripod.com/erythrina/ 22:51:25 .google Mr. Slimey "True Names" 22:51:27 Mr. Slimey "True Names": http://progoth.resnet.gatech.edu/truename/truename.htm 22:52:07 ugh, mr. slippery, sorry 22:52:54 oh dircproxy is so cool 22:53:10 heh, what happened? 22:53:21 my connection folded, for some reason 23:02:45 hmm, they're demoing peek-a-booty at codecon 23:03:21 heh! "libfreenet, the only functional Freenet implementation not written in Java (C) (presented as a case study for how not to do things -- the developer has given up and does not want to create an implementation for the post-0.3 era)" 23:07:23 heh, this thecircle guy uses the test on The Ring as his backgrop for his slides 23:11:05 man, he really reinvent chord... 23:12:12 lol: "some random data is needed.... Please bang on the keyboard like a monkey." 23:12:28 heh, heh 23:14:54 Um... ah yes, I was wondering about date datatypes in EARL... O.K. 23:17:15 heh 23:17:39 re: libfreenet, we have a working .4 implementation 23:17:55 one not written in java 23:19:38 yea, thecircle's cool 23:20:32 yet another atavism - sounds a lot how i described a certain network would work, to oierw back in june 23:20:40 s/lot/lot like/ 23:21:38 [datatypes: and now I've been distracted *again*] 23:22:30 thecircle is just chord insofar as network is concerned 23:22:35 have you run the app, tav? 23:22:55 i'm trying to chat up with folks about the plex 23:24:06 they've done so much! 23:24:13 file sharing, people finding, a trust metric for news 23:24:19 a GUI, proxying thru firewalls 23:24:21 no, i haven't managed to successfully get gtk working 23:24:45 trust metric for news? 23:24:46 i thought gtk was just gnome 23:24:52 in python 23:25:04 oh... i just did an apt-get install python2 23:25:23 it works w/ py2.0 ? 23:25:27 2.1 23:26:06 trust metric: yep you rate trust on 1 to 10 and then news flows along trust conenctions 23:27:01 hmz, it compiled and installed the gtk modules ? 23:27:25 yeah, but i was running on redhat 23:27:33 it didn't compile them, they came with 23:27:40 oh 23:28:08 the client does IRC over the network too. 23:28:40 wow 23:28:54 they've fully implemented all this? 23:29:01 yeah, seems so 23:29:23 the shell also supports arbitrary shell and python commands 23:31:06 and it's all written in python 23:31:13 is there a cli? 23:31:19 don't think so 23:31:48 i'm behind a nat, so i'm using mu2 to proxy. 23:32:05 hmm, it's all UDP 23:32:15 yea, noticed 23:32:20 cool, it lets you search on filenames and id3 tags 23:32:32 has minimal swarming 23:32:42 all for just over half a meg 23:32:47 quite a package 23:32:59 yeah, i'm surprised you haven't bought them yet 23:33:07 i guess it's cuz he doesn't hang out in #iA 23:33:19 i didn't realise it did all that 23:33:31 it spoke of lots, i just thought it had a basic circle implementation 23:33:34 cool, everything is digitally signed 23:33:49 and encrypted 23:34:03 it has this weird representation of your public key as a little line drawing too 23:34:45 appears to do relaying too 23:34:52 hmz 23:35:31 (this is what happens when you have people who can really code) 23:36:03 his "future directions" include plexnames (i.e. dns via trust connections) 23:36:25 he says he doesn't have an efficient algorithm for it tho 23:36:42 yes 23:36:59 do you? 23:37:40 i believe so 23:37:56 also can enhanced to provide hansel and gretel (sp?) routing 23:38:44 hmz 23:38:59 hmm? breadcrumbs? 23:39:03 can't install python-gtk 23:39:15 requires python-base 23:39:25 why don't you have that? 23:40:18 ok, where do i sign up for this? i need to talk to this guy! 23:40:44 yea, i initiated conversation w/ him after seeing his presentation 23:40:54 how'd that go? is he on irc? 23:41:08 no, he doesn't like irc. wise man ;p 23:41:39 xena, easy on the in-your-face URLs, OK? give me a title along with the pointer, would ya? 23:41:40 - #rdfig 23:41:40 heh. indeed 23:44:29 so via email then? did you communicate in a public forum? 23:44:34 . o O ( this is tav, of course not ) 23:44:58 oh dear, please don't 23:45:20 I've escaped people using the ". o O" syntax for quite a while - don't you start! 23:45:29 what's wrong with it 23:45:39 . o O ( i wonder what sbp thinks of this ) 23:45:41 and I'm sure that ". o O { dream }" looks better 23:46:17 { } ? 23:46:19 ewwwwww! 23:46:53 hazmat has left #swhack 23:47:03 I wonder how long he's been working on this. 23:47:43 he's got some really beautiful photography too. 23:48:13 i want to be like this guy. 23:48:20 too bad he lives in australia 23:49:35 bwhahaahaha! gtk compiles! 23:52:44 cool, they sent me a PDF of my article. it's all pretty 23:53:29 me: here you've built [PyChord] and have the services I planned to build on top 23:53:29 pfh: only half? ;-) 23:54:43 pfh: just looking at the plex page now 23:57:43 .google thecircle 23:57:43 thecircle: http://www.thief-thecircle.com 23:59:25 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 2002-01-23.txt0100644000014300000000000013464107423645672011710 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:30 hey rillian 00:00:44 we're playing with this new p2p network: http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~pfh/circle/ 00:00:46 very cool 00:01:17 gotta run -- dinner 00:01:59 * rillian waves 00:02:06 * sbp waves 00:03:33 argh:- 00:03:34 [[[ 00:03:34 Traceback (most recent call last): 00:03:34 File "circle", line 3, in ? 00:03:34 import sys, circlelib.circle 00:03:34 File "circlelib/circle.py", line 53, in ? 00:03:35 import os,sys,threading,time,traceback,md5,whrandom,re,string,math,types,imp,socket,signal 00:03:37 File "/usr/lib/python2.2/threading.py", line 5, in ? 00:03:39 import thread 00:03:41 ImportError: No module named thread 00:03:43 ]]] 00:03:46 yeah, it's linux-only, i think 00:03:51 cygwin doesn't have... 00:04:15 's a compile option, isn't it? 00:04:23 Aaron, shouldn't you be eating dinner? tav, shouldn't you be shutting up? :-) 00:04:25 was in the old pythons, anyway 00:04:31 shutting up? 00:04:50 you and your damn tales of CygWin Python doom :-) 00:04:54 heh 00:11:29 dircproxy is quite funny when it reconnects 00:11:46 Hmm... 00:11:47 [[[ 00:11:47 File "C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON22\lib\xml\dom\pulldom.py", line 97, in startElementNS 00:11:47 prefix = self._current_context[a_uri] 00:11:47 KeyError: http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace 00:11:48 ]]] 00:14:20 * sbp tries to fix it 00:17:41 * sbp fixes it 00:17:42 [[[ 00:17:43 elif a_uri: 00:17:43 try: prefix = self._current_context[a_uri] 00:17:43 except KeyError: prefix = None 00:17:44 ]]] 00:25:23 what's so funny about dirc reconnecting? 00:25:39 the windows go a bit nuts 00:50:33 Heh, funny, as I reconnect with dircproxy, I see "what's so funny about dirc reconnecting" 00:50:58 heh, heh, heh 00:52:04 So in my brief research today I think I understand the statement: "RDF can describe anything" 00:54:10 good, good 00:54:55 Now I just have to do something with it.. but I think I get why Plex is a Good Idea now. 00:55:28 also good :-) 00:55:42 do you have any questions about RDF/Semantic Web/Plex? 00:56:49 Not quite yet. I *think* I get it, I'll know if I try doing something with it 00:57:18 Got a bit more reading for that, find some more sample things to run and poke at. 00:58:01 I'm actually working on quite a bit of RDF processing junk right now 00:58:04 Oh, btw: It looks like Blogspace is an uber-wiki. Not released for general use though? 00:58:08 I'm just running some tests 00:58:22 Oh, and I think I "get" the rdfwiki now too 00:58:34 Blogspace has been released, but it's in some weird proprietary format. Aaron has been planning a PyBlogspace 00:58:48 neat 00:58:55 do you have Python installed? 00:59:03 er... of course you do... 00:59:04 Weird proprietary format? Didn't Aaron write it? 00:59:07 Yup, I have python 00:59:13 do you want to try out the stuff I'm working on now? 00:59:16 Aaron: yeah 00:59:21 but he used an Oracle database 00:59:26 and probably Tcl 00:59:46 Oh, okay, was it on an AOLServer or something 01:00:17 Sure, I'll play with what you have. 01:02:15 [off-log mumblings] 01:03:01 get accesstool.py, earlapi.py, eep.py, rdf.py, toolbox.py 01:03:16 accesstool.py is a kind of demonstration of the whole lot 01:03:53 the current built in test retrives www.w3.org, parses it for XML validity, serializes the result as EARL (which is an RDF language), and then extracts a report from the EARL 01:04:04 the result:- 01:04:04 $ python22 accesstool.py 01:04:04 of "2002-01-23T00:57:58Z" passes "Test for XML well-formedness" 01:04:26 by fiddling it slightly, you can get it to display the EARL, make it do weird things with the EARL, or whatever 01:04:41 there's also a function that checks whether or not a page has decent Alt Tags 01:04:51 well, it's a class, a parser 01:05:02 they're both in accesstool.py 01:05:07 Ack, be back in a lil bit. But I grabbed the files & am logging 01:05:14 earlapi.py is the stuff that does the general EARL munging 01:05:17 O.K., c'ya 01:05:22 * sbp will keep ranting 01:05:31 Hmm... I should get CygBot in here :-) 01:05:49 CygBot (~sbp@m6-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:54 welcome, CygBot 01:06:38 $quit 01:06:42 $ die 01:06:44 $ quit 01:06:46 Command "die" has been disabled 01:06:46 die! 01:06:47 Command "quit" has been disabled 01:06:59 * sbp should get it to ignore tav 01:09:11 7$python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:09:47 cool, I seem to have crashed it 01:10:03 $ pwd 01:10:11 > /home 01:10:12 > [end] 01:10:20 Hmm... 01:10:27 $python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:10:35 oh, no space heh, heh 01:10:41 7$ python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:10:46 > python22: not found 01:10:46 > [end] 01:10:53 Grgprmpgmrpgmpgmgh 01:11:10 aliases are bash-only, aren't they? crud 01:11:31 7$ "C:/Program\ Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:11:35 > C:/Program\ Files/Python22/Python.exe: not found 01:11:35 > [end] 01:11:44 ugh 01:11:48 7$ "C:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:11:56 > File "", line 1, in ? 01:11:57 > File "tools\accesstool.py", line 91, in doXMLTest 01:11:58 > Validity = checkXML(urlopen(uri).read()) 01:11:59 > File "tools\accesstool.py", line 57, in checkXML 01:12:00 > xml.dom.minidom.parseString(s) 01:12:01 > File "C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON22\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 965, in parseString 01:12:02 > [...] 01:12:05 heh, heh 01:13:19 ah, that's from when I was debugging minidom 01:13:53 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 01:26:09 logster (~swhack-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 01:26:09 Users on #swhack: logster 01:27:06 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 *** Notice -- TS for #swhack changed from 1011749259 to 1011748844 01:35:39 CygBot (~sbp@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:35:39 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:36:09 SeanP (~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:36:29 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 01:36:33 SeanP is now known as sbp 01:36:37 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 01:36:49 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:37:22 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com))) 01:37:39 sbp (~sean@m401-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:37:59 sbp- (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:38:28 heh, heh 01:38:30 7$ python22 -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:38:31 > python22: not found 01:38:31 > [end] 01:38:49 7$ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool; print tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.yahoo.com/')" 01:38:54 > . 01:38:55 > . 01:38:56 > "accesstool.py" . 01:38:57 > _:wvirbwsl _:olpkjsoh . 01:38:58 > _:wvirbwsl . 01:38:59 > _:wvirbwsl _:mlfrubka . 01:39:00 > [...] 01:39:05 hooray! 01:39:11 but no logs :-) 01:39:16 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 01:40:35 sbp- is now known as sbp 01:41:00 now we're getting somewhere 01:41:17 [Global Notice] Hi all. We've had a failure and are currently restoring servers. 01:42:32 * sbp waves to logster 01:48:45 * sbp enjoys the fun on #openprojects 01:50:58 tansaku3 (~sam@n146-207.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:52:57 * rillian just finds it depressing 01:55:00 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m30-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:57:30 SeanP (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:57:40 SeanP is now known as sbp 02:03:16 [Global Notice] Hi all. Just to recap, we've had a catastrophic network failure we are still analyzing. Now would be a good time for you to consider helping the project, especially if you code in C, know who Stevens is and are comfortable with sockets coding. Our current server code is up on http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/dancer/dancer-ircd/1.0/releases/dancer-ircd-1.0.31.tar.gz . Thanks. 02:04:08 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" /home/tools/accesstool.py 02:04:21 argh, it's not here 02:05:04 CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m984-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:05:14 CygBot (~sbp@m984-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:05:15 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" /home/tools/accesstool.py 02:05:20 > c:\Program Files\Python22\Python.exe: can't open file '/home/tools/accesstool.py' 02:05:20 > [end] 02:05:28 oh, of course... 02:06:10 $ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool as x; x.test()" 02:06:21 > of "2002-01-23T02:07:01Z" passes "Test for XML well-formedness" 02:06:21 > [end] 02:07:10 test() is:- 02:07:10 import earlapi as e 02:07:11 print e.EARLQuickParser(doXMLTest('http://www.w3.org/')).evaluationDetails() 02:07:36 EARL Quick Parser takes the standard Eep RDF API store, and parses that 02:11:27 there's also an EARLExpatParser class in earlapi, but that is meant to parse canonical XML RDF EARL... it doesn't do a very good job 02:17:14 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 02:22:02 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:30:03 Hmm, lilo sounds pretty desperate. 02:31:10 what happened? 02:31:56 i wonder what happened asuffield. 02:32:34 ^to 02:35:41 asuffield? 02:36:09 * sbp gets XML RDF output working 02:37:13 7$ "c:/Program Files/Python22/Python.exe" -c "import tools.accesstool, tools.earlapi, tools.eep; print tools.eep.serializeXML(tools.eep.parse(tools.accesstool.doXMLTest('http://www.w3.org/')))" 02:37:23 > 02:37:24 > > rdf:resource="anon:_htkbncfn"/> 02:37:26 > 02:37:27 > 02:37:28 > > [...] 02:37:41 that's one big command line... 02:38:54 * sbp adds nt2xmlrdf() 02:40:01 ugh, it stripped the "#" off of the namespace 02:44:34 tav has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 CygBot has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 sbp has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:49 [Global Notice] Hi all. If you are interested in playing with dancer, suggest you stop by #mistertoad about now....and the source code is on http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/dancer/dancer-ircd/1.0/releases/dancer-ircd-1.0.31.tar.gz , grab a copy and start looking. Thanks. 02:45:40 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 CygBot (~sbp@m984-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 02:45:40 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:45:47 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 02:48:39 asuffield was the lead coder on dancer, i understand 02:53:30 tav (tav@host217-34-75-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:58:40 * AaronSw gets another CFP brochure in the mail.... stop tempting me! 02:58:44 ooh, it's a calendar with important privacy landmarks on it 02:58:52 the anniversary of the first Mac will be on thursday 02:59:32 AaronSw has changed the topic to: And the nodes on the network go round and round, round and round, round and round... 03:21:05 * sbp has beefed up his summary thing:- 03:21:06 of 2002-01-23T03:21:05Z passes "Well-Formedness TestCase" (Test for XML well-formedness) 03:21:06 of 2002-01-23T03:21:12Z passes "Decent-Alttags TestCase" (Test for all alt attrs. in document: no/empty ones => fail) 03:21:28 * sbp is rather pleased 03:27:41 alt *attributes* 03:27:53 why fail on empty alt attributes? 03:44:13 projectbuilder can't edit makefiles 03:47:08 attrs: "Test for all alt attrs." 03:47:14 I know: "Alttags" 03:47:20 I just can't help myself... 03:47:29 why fail on empty alt attributes: because I'm a hard-ass 03:48:17 for the world view of this particular test, all images have a non-whitespace lexical alternative 03:48:58 and whilst that's probably not true, it is in this test 03:49:16 What will be interesting is when this test gets merged with later tests against test points that aren't so strict :-) 03:56:24 tansaku3 is now known as tansaku 04:15:51 CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:16:18 CygBot (~sbp@m464-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:16:48 7$ python tools/hashing.py 04:16:58 > _:ocvdhgyw "2002-01-23T04:17:39Z" . 04:16:59 > _:ocvdhgyw "71483864ffab407482537ae310cab602" . 04:17:00 > _:ocvdhgyw "698ee44faa1bdb5ba9f052894d392477" . 04:17:01 > _:ocvdhgyw "d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e" . 04:17:02 > _:ocvdhgyw "e593e64fd30ff3b51f5c3d6c39bb23a8" . 04:17:03 > _:ocvdhgyw "3f450905809b91ae404852562421aa35" . 04:17:05 > [...] 04:17:20 Hmm... CygBot keeps stripping the first line 04:18:02 e 04:18:05 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:18:10 CygBot (~sbp@m464-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:18:21 3$ python tools/hashing.py 04:18:31 > _:abkbufbn . 04:18:32 > _:abkbufbn "2002-01-23T04:19:12Z" . 04:18:32 > _:abkbufbn "71483864ffab407482537ae310cab602" . 04:18:32 > [...] 04:18:38 there we go 04:22:55 * AaronSw um, discusses with the circle guys 04:23:06 not good? 04:23:38 they don't seem to believe in genericity 04:24:04 meaning... 04:25:30 like, instead of building the Web, these guys seem to want to build a phone directory network, and a news-sharing network, etc. 04:25:47 wonderfully exciting 04:26:14 one of the first applications of the Web was the CERN phone book 04:26:26 [you know that] 04:27:26 what I mean is: :PhoneAndNewsNetworks rdfs:subClassOf :Web . 04:27:26 tha's why i used that example 04:27:43 cool 04:27:59 right. so we have a hard time selling them on the Plex (analogous to the Web) because all they want is a phone directory. 04:28:35 but we show them that the Plex can do what they want it for, and everyone's happy 04:28:49 well, you show them 04:29:53 well... not really, since they want to build the phone directory and not the plex, and we were sort of counting on them to build things for us ;-) 04:32:21 well, they must be adding some level of genericity to the code; i.e. something surely must be salvagable 04:32:27 yes, indeed. 04:32:46 just not as much as you had hoped, eh? :-) 04:32:46 i think we just hoped for somethign more (a lead developer) and found something less (a user) 04:32:52 jinx 04:32:56 heh, heh 04:33:06 hmz 04:33:16 i reckon that i can bring pfh around 04:33:41 * sbp just ate a lovely crispy chocolate bar thingy 04:34:22 "#swhack: home of tav the miracle worker" 04:35:38 * sbp presumes that no one needs CygBot 04:35:40 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:40:11 rillian has quit ("dinner, cake") 04:40:57 cake? 04:52:56 .acronym LFTC 04:53:04 xena? 04:54:05 obviously not 05:09:01 nite all. c'ya later 05:14:46 c'ya 06:48:13 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 09:12:06 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:16:44 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:16:50 sbp- (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 09:17:43 sbp- is now known as sbp 10:25:15 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:01:40 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:02:07 tansaku (~sam@h132-004.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:46:41 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:55:37 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 13:45:01 -- 13:45:02 I/O, I/O, 13:45:02 It's off to disk I go, 13:45:02 A bit or byte to read or write, 13:45:02 I/O, I/O, I/O... 13:45:03 -- 14:08:19 @ http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/QuotePage 14:08:27 A: http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/QuotePage from AaronSw 14:08:41 A:|PoundPython Quote Page 14:08:42 titled item A 14:09:05 A::Part of the [PoundPython WikiWiki|http://purl.org/wiki/python/]. 14:09:06 commented item A 14:24:50 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:25:24 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:12:35 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:13:12 tansaku (~sam@n144-014.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:34:10 tansaku has quit () 17:43:34 lol @ "I/O, I/O" 17:52:48 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 17:53:03 kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 17:53:36 * sbp waves to hazmat and Ken 17:53:50 hello sbp 18:00:27 that PoundPython page is hillarious 18:00:53 kenm has quit ("Leaving") 18:02:59 sbp has quit ("Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.2") 18:03:13 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:03:13 sbp, where is that? 18:03:13 have you guys read through bruce eckel's ipc9 closing address, its fairly humorous. 18:06:10 ftp://www.mindview.net/pub/eckel/LovePython.zip 18:14:05 O.K., let's set up the perfect Google band 18:14:10 .google Greatest drummer of all time 18:14:11 Greatest drummer of all time: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/home.html&e=922 18:14:21 sbp has left #swhack 18:14:54 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:15:03 WTF happened there? 18:15:30 anyway, John Bonham at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/home.html which is not surprising 18:15:39 * sbp is listening to "When The Levee Breaks" :-) 18:15:44 .google Greatest vocalist of all time 18:15:46 Greatest vocalist of all time: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/holiday_b.html 18:15:56 Billie Holiday 18:16:03 Hmm... is that gonna work? :-) 18:16:05 anyway... 18:16:15 .google Greatest guitarist of all time 18:16:16 Greatest guitarist of all time: http://pub72.ezboard.com/frrivsplacefrm1.showMessage?topicID=837.topic 18:17:10 heh:- 18:17:11 [[[ 18:17:11 I havent got a clue...i feel like crosstown traffic. 18:17:11 My mind is in a purple haze right now. 18:17:11 Anyone feeling foxy? 18:17:12 ]]] 18:17:32 That'll be Jimi Hendrix, then, although others get mentioned 18:17:40 .google Greatest bassist of all time 18:17:41 Greatest bassist of all time: http://www.firstfoot.co.uk/good%20scottish%20pop/jackbruce.htm 18:18:21 Jack Bruce, of the Cream 18:18:34 .google Greatest songwriter of all time 18:18:35 Greatest songwriter of all time: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/threads/songwriter.htm 18:20:26 oh man, that page is so confusing 18:20:43 Well have Ellington, McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, and Gershwin :-) 18:20:50 better link to the eckel speech http://64.78.49.204/pub/eckel/LovePython.zip 18:21:19 BLURB:The Google-Assembled Super-Band 18:21:21 .google PoundPython 18:21:22 PoundPython: http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/python/moin.cgi/PoundPython 18:21:23 B: The Google-Assembled Super-Band from sbp 18:21:52 B::This is an attempt to assemble a super-band using Google searches of the nature "Greatest x of all time" 18:21:53 commented item B 18:22:59 B::drummer: [http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/home.html|John Bonham] [of Led Zeppelin] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+drummer+of+all+time|search] 18:23:00 commented item B 18:23:39 B::vocalist: [http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/holiday_b.html|Billie Holiday] [famous Jazz singer] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+vocalist+of+all+time|search] 18:23:41 commented item B 18:24:36 B::guitarist: [http://pub72.ezboard.com/frrivsplacefrm1.showMessage?topicID=837.topic|Jimi Hendrix] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+guitarist+of+all+time|search]) 18:24:38 commented item B 18:25:21 B::bassist: [http://www.firstfoot.co.uk/good%20scottish%20pop/jackbruce.htm|Jack Bruce] [of the Cream] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+bassist+of+all+time|search]) 18:25:23 commented item B 18:26:21 B::songwriter: [http://www.allaboutjazz.com/threads/songwriter.htm|Ellington, McCartney, Lennon, Dylan, and Gershwin] [this page was a discussion about the world's greatest, with no clear victory] ([http://www.google.com/search?q=Greatest+songwriter+of+all+time|search]) 18:26:23 commented item B 18:27:01 there was all this underwear hanging around at school today. i wonder if it was Campus Commando Day... 18:27:15 ugh, chumpster has really messed the syntax up 18:27:17 Aaron? 18:27:24 li'l help?! 18:27:36 lol! @ Campus Commando Day 18:27:37 what'd you do? 18:27:51 nothing. see the above entries. They all came out weirdly 18:27:54 http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 18:28:32 oh, right, I used "[]" in the things... it must have thought they were URIs, even though there was no | in them, and they don't fit the URI syntax 18:28:37 that's a bit silly 18:28:59 yeah, i suppose 18:33:32 also, scribbled into my desk where you normally see swears and love notes, it was all clean except for one word: "LISP" 18:34:00 where the fuck are you? 18:34:18 err, that was at school too 18:34:26 weird school 18:36:06 /topic LISP Underwear 18:38:27 so i was visited by the Twisted Python folks this morning 18:41:51 they've been telling me that other people's code sucks, and i should use theirs. but they're big into metapython 18:51:48 .google "Twisted Python" 18:51:49 "Twisted Python": http://twistedmatrix.com 18:52:01 visited as in "came to your house", or what? 18:52:20 no, just my irc client 18:52:58 they want to take over the world too, it seems 18:53:10 we need to create more worlds for all these world takeover folks. 18:53:17 Hmm... we talked about Twisted a while ago. Or, I talked about it with somebody 18:53:23 heh, yeah 18:53:51 sbp has changed the topic to: We need to create more worlds for all these world takeover folks 18:54:05 Hmm, I wonder who you talked about it with. 18:54:18 .google sbp twisted python 18:54:18 sbp twisted python: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-11-27.txt 18:54:24 it must have been you. Who else could it have been? 18:56:04 that isn't it 18:56:44 i don't remember talking about it... 18:57:57 Patrick Stickler's latest email makes no sense to me 18:58:31 URI? 18:58:51 it's on URx Questions 18:59:07 he seems to say that URNs should have clear resolution and TAG doesn't need datestamps 19:08:53 oh, right 19:16:39 .google xpointer 19:16:40 xpointer: http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-xptr 19:16:50 .google xpointer tr 19:16:51 xpointer tr: http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr 19:19:08 last night we went to see Noah's band performance. they played "25 or 6 to 4" and which led to a large discussion about the significance of the title/lyrics 19:24:14 Funny, Twisted in python sounds a lot like POE in perl 19:26:26 POE? 19:29:11 Hmm... so what is the significance of the title? 19:31:56 Probably something like Perl Enterprise Objects. 19:32:05 poe.perl.org 19:32:17 its pretty cool. 19:32:31 whoo! blanu helped me find the bug in my chord code 19:32:46 ah. "POE is a framework for creating multitasking programs in Perl." 19:32:49 morbus was on about that. 19:39:31 hmm, sounds like cooperative threading. that's not that interesting, is it? 19:47:52 wow, spamassasin caught 43 messages 19:48:29 * deus_x wakes back up. 19:48:49 Yeah, POE is basically cooperative threading, but it's interesting in perl because it never had it before 19:48:57 ah 19:49:10 And it's set up to be a componentized, event driven thing. 19:50:44 So, like for Morbus' AmphetaDesk, POE could have a scheduler component firing events to an RSS channel updater component, and an HTTP server that fires events to the news aggregation page generation component. 19:51:06 But in a lot of other languages, nothing new. 19:51:57 when you say "firing events" do you have a threadsafe coordination system to store this data? 19:52:01 like tuplespaces in linda 19:52:05 or *cough* the Plex 19:52:16 Hmm, not familiar with that. :( I have a lot of reading to do 19:52:42 the idea is instead of firing events, you post a notice in the town hall saying that X needs to be done, and please leave the result in the same place. 19:53:46 Oh, kind of, yes. Though it's asynchronous, so HTTP server fires an "I have a request" event, Request handler triggers on that event and does things, then it fires an "I have a response" event that the HTTP server catches. 19:54:16 right. 19:54:38 but are the events aimed at a specific module, or could i make forty aggregators and have them each work at the same time? 19:54:49 (and split up the work evenly) 19:55:27 Mostly the events are addressed, but there are broadcaster components and job queue components that launch several workers off to handle events 19:56:12 All of this being within the same literal perl thread and process, with event handlers voluntarily yielding control after a step of their work is done 19:56:28 oh, right. i forgot that. 19:56:36 cooperative multitasking sucks, as any OS 9 user knows 19:56:43 ie. A handler that loops through some data would do a step or a chunk of steps, queue up an event back to itself, and yield. 19:57:02 versions of MacOS < X were all cooperatively multitasked 19:57:03 Yeah, it sucks, but it's the best perl can do without threads. 19:57:27 Which begs the question of why to use perl, but people are nutty like that. 19:57:50 (Me being one of them, but I'm working on recovery. :) ) 19:58:23 heh 19:58:30 why doesn't perl have threads? 19:58:42 Just last night I was playing around with an AmphetaDesk++ using POE. All the while thinking I really need to do more python work 19:59:19 Perl has initial work on threads, but it's experimental. Mostly I think it's because perl is a big mess of tangled speaker wire inside, and that's why Perl 6 is a ground-up rewrite 20:00:40 ah :) 20:01:40 Wow, Visual One Time Pads are cool. 20:02:05 * deus_x googles 20:03:48 heh 20:04:06 you use us overhead transparency paper has for the ciphertext 20:04:17 Whoa.. hehe, visual encryption by halftone 20:04:39 er, halfmoons that is 20:05:44 Funny, we were just thinking of doing something like that as a product for a game 20:06:08 Only we depend on a home player to print something out that will match up with our transparency 20:19:09 neat! sounds like a fun game 20:20:56 Basically a way to try to get people to come from a web site and into a physical store. 20:22:30 Scienide (~Running@adsl-63-198-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:23:06 i think i been here before 20:23:12 Dizmo`` (~unhappy@adsl-63-198-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 20:23:18 hi 20:23:21 he isnt a clone 20:23:24 he just on the same gate 20:23:46 ur in the wrong chan 20:23:47 lol 20:23:50 i am? 20:23:54 oh okies 20:24:11 Dizmo`` is now known as Dizmo 20:24:13 this isn't the channel you're looking for. [waves hand] 20:24:20 okies 20:24:25 would you like us to leave? 20:24:34 what are you here for? 20:24:46 nothing 20:24:50 its new to this server 20:24:52 oh, then you can stay 20:24:53 well 20:24:54 we are 20:25:00 i just have to reconnect 20:25:02 ill brb 20:25:06 Scienide has quit ("Local Kill by eddr") 20:25:12 er.. O.K. 20:25:34 Scienide (Running@modem-3758.lemur.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 20:25:39 wb 20:25:52 interesting new feature for this server, eh, sbp? 20:25:53 BWT, this channel is instantly and persistently archived to the Web 20:26:01 new feature: why? 20:26:04 er... what? 20:26:11 hellos 20:26:19 getting visits like these. 20:26:24 he says they're new to this network. 20:26:49 Hmm... yes 20:27:02 cool, they made my article all purty. 20:28:10 you can buy your copy of the magazine for only...[checks]...$17! what a steal 20:28:22 i'm on page 2, apparently... 20:28:51 not too shabby 20:28:58 probably just a placeholder 20:29:10 on the other hand i could be the cover story ;-) 20:30:05 hmm, looks like pages 2-3 are reserved for "From the Editor in Chief" 20:30:13 Scienide has left #swhack 20:31:50 Dizmo has left #swhack 20:34:20 ooh, Norm Walsh on RDF IG 20:35:18 what's his nick? 20:35:34 mailing list 20:35:42 oh 20:35:44 pfft 20:35:48 :-) 20:38:17 twisted seems cool 20:38:41 i wonder if they have a photo album thingy for it 20:38:47 heh,h eh 20:39:07 * sbp tries to figure out how to get spaces to insert themselves correctly into sentences 20:39:16 well... sentence fragments, at least 20:43:01 hey, i tried to like zope, i really did 20:43:42 perhaps I should try the dvorak configuration. OTOH, I couldn't find the setting where the set-up page said it would be 20:43:47 lol 20:44:17 i've heard that dvorak's improvement in speed is not worth the learning cost 20:44:29 you laugh, but i spent hours trying to make it work! 20:44:37 that seems to be a reasonable assumption 20:44:55 hours: I'm not surprised. Why on Earth did you try? I couldn't understand it 20:45:03 i mean, it complains that the python build it frickin came with doesn't work! 20:45:06 maybe you caught a touch of insanity from somewhere 20:45:13 heh, heh 20:45:36 hey, i was just trying to be practical: i needed photo album software, tav said this was good. 20:45:59 but zope was like: hah, now we can get back at him for making fun of us! 20:46:15 so, i'm sorry zope. it's too bad it didn't work out. 20:47:41 hmm, maybe it's because i'm using the beta. 20:48:12 * AaronSw downloads 2.4.3 20:49:43 Having trouble finding a photo album, so you want to use Zope? heh heh 20:49:58 web photo album software 20:50:13 i'm using the ACS right now, so i want to switch to something nicer (read: python) 20:50:19 Ahh, okay. 20:50:36 ok, even with 2.3.1 i get the same error 20:50:41 err 2.4.3 20:57:13 ok, so i went in and fixed it bu hand, but of course there's another thing missing too 21:11:34 heh! 21:12:15 what? 21:13:09 @ http://www.codeweavers.com/~jwhite/tunney.html 21:13:12 C: The Tunney Act, A confession of shame, and a call to action from AaronSw 21:13:43 C::Quick, tell the Justice Department about the problems with the Microsoft Settlement, ASAP. 21:13:45 commented item C 21:14:40 C::"Send it now. By the time you think to come back to this page, it will be too late." 21:14:42 commented item C 21:14:50 C::via Debian Weekly News 21:14:51 commented item C 21:18:25 C::It won't be gone if you try the [http://web.archive.org/web/20020123131928/http://www.codeweavers.com/~jwhite/tunney.html|Alexa version] 21:18:26 commented item C 21:18:40 oh well, I'm just a big idiot 21:18:46 who said it would be gone? 21:18:58 I dunno. Sorry, my mind's elsewhere at the moment 21:19:10 C::Who said it would be gone? It wll be too late to comment on the proceedings. So quick, send the DOJ a letter now. 21:19:11 commented item C 21:20:44 C::Well, you never know - M****soft might sue them for "improper use of their trademark" or something, and all sites that use the name "M****soft" in a derogatory manner might vanish from the face of the Earth. I dunno - work with me on this one 21:20:46 commented item C 21:21:21 * sbp tries fairly hard to redeem himself 21:23:41 [Information Générale] Salut à tous. Veuillez noter que ce réseau n'a pas pour but de servir de terrain d'essai "grandeur nature" pour des bots, en particuliers ceux utilisant des machines Windows piratées ... Merci. 21:24:11 huh? 21:24:44 (to lilo's comment) 21:25:15 .translate eng-fre Salut à tous. Veuillez noter que ce réseau n'a pas pour but de servir de terrain d'essai "grandeur nature" pour des bots, en particuliers ceux utilisant des machines Windows piratées ... Merci. 21:25:26 error: Site Error occurred: IndexError 21:25:53 """[ General Information ] Hello with all. Please note that the purpose of this network is not to be used as ground of test " natural size " for the club-footed ones, as private individuals those using of the Windows machines pirated... Thank you.""" 21:26:15 well, that didn't help much :-) 21:26:29 - translate.google.com 21:28:25 translate.google.com? 21:28:49 yeah, where'd you get the translation from? 21:28:55 * deus_x is neither natural size or club-footed 21:29:14 Aaron, please try going to http://translate.google.com/ and tell me what's there :-) 21:29:29 a little box to type text in 21:29:41 notice i didn't say http://translate.google.com/ 21:29:59 since that page doesn't say that, but that server does 21:30:01 oh, O.K. What protocol would you have me use? 21:30:09 HTTP 21:31:17 AaronSw is now known as AaronSw_chatting_with_zooko_aw 21:31:26 AaronSw_chatting_with_zooko_aw is now known as AaronSw 21:31:59 it's just that google uses POST instead of GET for such things, annoyingly 21:32:13 yes, that is annoying 21:32:18 so the url i get is http://translate.google.com/translate_t 21:32:21 did you see the GET deprecation thing? 21:32:25 no... 21:32:29 just the subject 21:32:53 it was pretty hillarious 21:33:31 >> The HTTP "get" protocol is deprecated for use in form submission. 21:33:31 >> Form authors should use "post" for greater compatibility. 21:33:43 lol 21:33:46 from who? 21:34:07 it was a Connolly spurred-exchange, I believe 21:34:20 Connolly would never say such a thing. 21:34:26 Connolly was against it 21:34:32 so who said that? 21:34:43 the XForms specification 21:34:49 .google "The HTTP "get" protocol is deprecated for use in form submission" 21:34:50 "The HTTP "get" protocol is deprecated for use in form submission": http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-xforms-20011207/slice11.html 21:34:55 oh man 21:35:00 you're kidding, right? 21:35:20 nope: it's there is black and white. that's what I said: hillarious 21:36:06 hmm, wonder why i didn't get connolly's original message 21:36:15 * sbp wonders that too 21:36:23 I didn't get it either, if that's any consolation 21:36:24 did you get it? 21:36:28 ah 21:36:31 perhaps Tim picked it up from the comments list 21:36:40 due to it being a TAG issue 21:36:53 yeah, i saw them talking about it on the telecon but didn't understand what they meant 21:37:35 * sbp listens to WIAWSNB 21:40:00 go mnot! http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2002Jan/0007.html 21:40:13 here's the original http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2002Jan/0013.html 21:40:39 heh, cool 21:43:12 i gotta agree with DanC, chair training sure ain't what it used to be! 21:44:32 Wow, Chris Lilley is against GET? 21:44:46 "GET requires munging the form contents into a set of name,value pairs and tacking them onto a URL to make an unweildy, I18N-hostile method of concealing that content is actually being transferred to the server." 21:45:20 Hmm, it seems he just means for putting XML documents or something. 21:45:32 yeah 21:46:01 I think he's just saying that POST isn't redundant when it comes to posting stuff to servers. Duh 21:53:33 [[[ 21:53:33 > >> It will also be Chinese New Year (Year of the Metal 21:53:33 > >> Snake): both fortuitous and fortunate, I hope. 21:53:33 > > 21:53:33 > > So what's it the year of? 21:53:33 > 21:53:35 > Seth (blushing) which goes to prove that people don't read. 21:53:37 ]]] 21:53:43 From: "Seth Russell" 21:53:43 To: 21:53:43 Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:33 PM 21:53:45 Subject: Re: SWAG: RE: Pausing To Reflect 21:53:50 this time last year :-) 21:54:11 lol 21:55:40 sbp has changed the topic to: Plex: this year's SWAG 21:56:06 heh, SWAG was so fun 21:56:09 Gotta run 22:29:46 deltab, is there a better way to keep track of instances of a class than a big global list? 22:44:48 it's a bit stupid that code isn't protected by the first amendment 22:45:54 [Welcome to Part VII of "Stating The Obvious", with sbp] 22:46:42 CygBot (~sbp@m766-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:50:58 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:57:48 I wonder what the most popular Google search is for something that does not return any results? 22:59:51 no, the courts have ruled that code is protected now 23:00:02 sbp, we can't tell you because then it would have results 23:00:22 hooray/yeah, cool paradox 23:01:01 well, not really a paradox, since you just have to time-qualify it 23:02:17 heh, cool topic 23:02:26 if code is protected, why do you fear that Plex will become illegal? 23:02:50 * sbp is surprised you didn't notice that earlier 23:03:04 our laws don't work that way 23:03:20 it can be OK to share the Plex code, but illegal to run it 23:03:36 that's what's happening in the DeCSS case it seems. 23:04:07 the court ruled code was speech (a lot of that was due to the TShirts and haikus and such) and that it could be distributed, but they didn't rule on whether using it is legal. 23:04:24 like, instructions on how to kill the president are protected, killing the president isn't. 23:04:52 Uh huh 23:05:51 banning Plex would be pretty low, though - it's really just a simple P2P system at the root of it 23:06:14 it'd be like 23:06:18 argh 23:06:55 it'd be like closing down banks because they're liable to be robbed, or transact stolen money, or something - 'Plex doesn't have to be used for illegal purposes 23:07:52 although, I suppose you have to weigh up the pros and cons given current usage. or at least, the courts do 23:08:43 e.g. the British courts (or rather: Parliament) decided that guns designed to kill people, and are often used as such. So they banned them 23:09:34 [Welcome to Part VIII of "Stating The Obvious", with sbp] 23:12:14 yeah, that's the weirdest thing about the US. We ban Napster but let guns off free. 23:12:22 That's what Lessig pointed out. 23:12:43 And when we do go after guns, we go after owners and retailers, not makers of guns. 23:13:33 \topic Whoever used Napster to kill someone? 23:13:34 :-) 23:14:49 it'd be really awesome if the Plex worked out. 23:14:56 [more stating the obvious] 23:15:05 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 23:15:10 Heh, heh. But it's true 23:15:36 Hello 23:15:45 At least it's not centralized, like Napster 23:15:47 Hi Ben 23:17:43 yep, that's why it'll be cool. 23:18:07 and even if they take all the copies of it off the web, we can still distribute it via itself and by hand. 23:18:52 lol 23:19:08 and by mail. Just print out the source code, get people to scan it in... 23:20:12 we can drop them from helicopters 23:20:31 heh, heh 23:22:39 * sbp listens to The Doors 23:24:04 heh, heh, heh: """Another update on the site, made it XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant, so now it should render fairly fast! Not sure if I like XHTML... and is there anyone who could please explain me how I can add target to an tag in XHTML?""" - http://www.fanms.com/ 23:24:18 Not a surprising statement, coming as it does from a site named "FanMS" 23:26:21 lol! 23:27:41 Hmm... 23:28:40 oh man, could you fix http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ for me? 23:28:54 it seems to have fecked up formatting of "*****" too 23:29:06 oh, fine 23:29:17 i'm in a good mood because pychord is working 23:29:27 ooh! 23:29:48 is it at a point where I'm going to be downloading it and testing it? 23:29:50 chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection) 23:29:58 not yet, really 23:30:10 it might be if people stopped taking advantage of my good mood ;-) 23:30:47 so you want me to change to ****? 23:31:24 please 23:31:44 and fix the crappy [] stuff in the Google-band thing 23:31:52 i'm not sure what that's supposed to be... 23:32:13 drummer: John Bonham of Led Zeppelin] -> ? 23:32:38 John Bonham [of Led Zeppelin] ... 23:33:08 and the google search linked to "search"? 23:33:30 please 23:35:01 how's it look now? 23:35:06 anything else before i turn chumpster back on? 23:35:55 * sbp reviews 23:36:05 Ugh: 23:36:05 -- 23:36:07 We're Sorry. 23:36:07 The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance. 23:36:07 We will be back shortly 23:36:08 -- 23:36:19 nope, that'll do 23:36:21 and #sourceforge is full, of course 23:36:25 SF down again? Blargh 23:37:03 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 23:37:24 thanks for fixing 23:37:28 i can just see them: "we better put a limit on the channel before everyone comes and starts complaining" 23:37:35 heh, heh, heh 23:48:10 tansaku (~sam@n144-062.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 2002-01-24.txt0100644000014300000000000014635407424117547011711 0ustar nobodyroot00:01:48 does anybody here know in what version HTMLParser was introduced to the Python stdlib? 00:06:24 Hmm... it seems that it was introduced in 2.2 00:13:12 ooh, O'Reilly wrote back on my Plex proposal... 00:13:26 aww, they rejected it. 00:15:59 tsk 00:16:06 oh well 00:17:02 wow, you didn't tell us about that. How many other things do you have hiding in the grotto? :-) 00:20:26 sure i did 00:20:29 i had you read over it 00:20:37 ooh, I should start a Plex newsletter 00:20:44 Did I? Ugh, I apologize 00:20:57 i dunno... i thought you did 00:21:59 don't think so. I rarely know what you're doing Plex-wise from one day to another. Yu're too busy doing it, I guess :-) 00:24:48 ugh, I can't get MN to run. At all 00:24:54 really? 00:25:00 did you grab the windows binary? 00:25:39 yep. 0.999 00:25:47 perhaps I should try the stable one 00:26:23 Hmm... quickstart says that it'll open "C:\Program Files\Mojo Nation\config\broker\intropage.html", but the file doesn't even exist. Perhaps it's created on the first run 00:34:42 I wonder if there's a Mac OS X theme for Windows? 00:34:46 .google Mac OS X theme for Windows? 00:34:47 Mac OS X theme for Windows: http://www.macosxhints.com 00:35:18 erm... right 00:35:24 .google "Mac OS X theme for Windows" 00:35:25 no results found. 00:43:36 heh: http://m5p.com/~pravn/foot.html 00:50:09 Aaron, have you checked out iMesh? any good? 01:01:36 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:02:58 SeanP (~sean@m332-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:03:12 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m332-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:03:20 SeanP is now known as sbp 01:03:36 Aaron, WTF is up with dircproxy? 01:03:40 it just went nuts 01:03:57 it kept letting me in, spewing hundreds of lines at me, and then botting me off immediately 01:08:32 heh, another discussion about artists getting paid at the dinner table. 01:08:41 sorry, was at dinner 01:08:57 .google aqua windows 01:08:58 aqua windows: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/aqua.html 01:09:10 iMesh is windows only so i haven't used it 01:09:19 i hear fastrack/kazaa/morpheus is good tho 01:09:27 * sbp will test it for you 01:09:43 Um... could you possibly fix dircproxy in the meantime, though? 01:09:44 .aqua litestep theme 01:09:50 what's wrong, exactly? 01:10:02 and how do you propose i fix it? 01:10:22 I'm not sure. I just goes berserk when I log into it 01:10:25 .google aqua litestep theme 01:10:26 and then kicks me off 01:10:26 aqua litestep theme: http://www.themes.org/forums/gtk/147 01:10:33 i'll restart it... 01:10:39 thanks 01:10:58 ok 01:11:02 it should be back up now 01:11:15 thanks, I'll try it (and thanks for the Aqua links) 01:11:22 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 01:11:43 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:12:19 O.K., it seems to be back in business! thank you 01:12:23 sure 01:12:33 Hmm... "Styling Sheets". What does that remind you of? :-) 01:13:07 where's that from? 01:13:27 ugh: http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1476651-100-1486723.html 01:13:30 from the Aqua page 01:14:45 .google Mac OS 9 fiel system Python 01:14:45 Mac OS 9 fiel system Python: http://www.schockwellenreiter.de 01:14:53 .google Mac OS 9 file system Python 01:14:54 Mac OS 9 file system Python: http://www.oreilly.de/catalog/macosmm/toc.html 01:15:31 DanC got a version of it running in Python, so that he could scrape some old files from a disc 01:15:55 lol! http://yellow5.com/pokey/archive/index177.html 01:15:58 Pokey is so funny 01:16:38 heh, heh @ Aqua Theme 01:16:53 Bizzare 01:17:28 * sbp should scan Fred and Bert one day 01:17:29 er... Fred and Larry 01:17:50 TwistedMatrix uses the GREASE plan. 01:18:02 of course, I don't have a scanner. I'd have to fax it to myself 01:19:40 * sbp considers porting RDF Author from Mac 01:23:46 Now it's time for the reschedule Magical Mystery Tour. 01:23:50 c'ya l8r d00d 01:25:41 heh. c'ya 01:27:59 * sbp reads about AppleScript 01:28:37 quite funny, really 01:29:06 like sh for toddlers 01:48:03 .google IceWM 01:48:04 IceWM: http://www.icewm.org 01:52:21 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 01:53:31 Hi rillian 01:53:38 howdy 01:54:10 aha: http://www.cluff.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html 01:55:50 @ http://www.cluff.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html 01:55:54 chump it! 01:55:56 A: http://www.cluff.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html from sbp 01:56:03 A:|A Tutorial on how to make Windows look like Mac OS X 01:56:04 titled item A 01:57:42 A:\ewwwwwww! use litestep and icesphere, not the shit suggested by the above url 01:57:59 A::ewwwwwww! use litestep and icesphere, not the shit suggested by the above url 01:58:00 commented item A 01:58:17 "url"? How old fashined are you? :-) 01:58:32 Can you point me to a discussion of litestep and icesphere? 01:59:21 *sigh* I'll find it myself 01:59:27 .google litestep icesphere 01:59:28 heh 01:59:28 litestep icesphere: http://icesphere.hellbent.com/devteam.shtml 02:02:11 .google litestep Aqua 02:02:12 litestep Aqua: http://www.wincustomize.com/directory.asp 02:05:30 * sbp finds http://www.wam.umd.edu/~razambon/LSFAQ/ 02:11:09 * sbp wonders why he didn't get litestep before 02:11:22 Hmm... perhaps because I can't find a distribution 02:12:57 ah: http://www.litestep.net/ 02:13:17 * deus_x wakes up. 02:13:37 I don't know if I should have, but I turned the Friends view on livejournal.com into RSS 02:15:59 was that already available b4? 02:16:08 * sbp finds http://builds.lsdev.org/ 02:16:31 Well, there's an RSS view on one's own journal made recently, but no RSS for the aggregate friends view that I knew of 02:17:57 wow, it's not even half a MB 02:29:03 lol! new in 0.9.7: "Mozilla now has support for digest access authentication." 02:30:11 What took it so long? I implemented digest in QuickPut rather quickly 02:55:18 tansaku (~sam@n145-057.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 02:56:57 Ah, that was a great movie. 02:57:17 Apparently they never showed it in the states, so my Mum had never seen it. 02:57:47 * sbp searches for an Aqua theme for LiteStep 02:58:11 heh: 02:58:11 * sbp reads about AppleScript 02:58:11 quite funny, really 02:58:11 heh, as that shoot yourself in the foot doc says: 02:58:11 Put the first bullet of the gun into the foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. 02:58:12 Motif 02:58:32 Motif? 02:58:34 rillian, what was the cake for yesterday? 02:58:42 err, just ignore that. copied too much ;) 02:59:00 AaronSw: flatmate's bday 02:59:09 unfortunately, she's too sick to enjoy it 02:59:35 aw. 03:00:27 sbp, ever thought of asking #litestep? 03:00:57 good idea 03:01:27 Heh heh 03:01:44 WTF is going on in there? 03:02:31 ah, it's a bridge 03:04:37 quick, get your name on an MIT building! http://web.mit.edu/giving/priorities/campus/building/medialab.html 03:06:25 I want the cafe! 03:13:06 i got the lounge! 03:13:24 cheapskate 03:14:41 heh 03:15:11 maybe i'll grab the winter garden then 03:15:15 Can I just claim a bathroom stall? 03:15:37 I only have about $200 to play with, at best. 03:15:52 you'll have to pay extra for the sign 03:16:10 I can provide my own, does that help? 03:16:26 is it up to Campus Standards? (of course not) 03:16:46 Well, I'm getting pretty good with my woodburning kit. 03:17:15 ok, next... 03:17:28 Heehee 03:22:15 hmm, i never noticed that the swhack logs are out of order: http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 03:23:11 Still looking for a photo album? The one at http://www.liveframe.org appears promising, albeit in perl. 03:26:38 interesting. thanks 03:26:53 hmm, frames and odd uris 03:29:13 eww. POST instead of GET 03:35:53 Ye gods, I'm subscribed to 92 RSS channels. I can't decide whether I need more or to cut down. 03:43:11 deus_x: what do you mean subscribed?? 03:45:30 rillian has quit ("food, bed") 03:45:50 hazmat: Oh, subscribed in my AmphetaDesk install 03:46:18 .google amphetadesk 03:46:19 amphetadesk: http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk 03:46:44 deus_x: add more 03:46:57 I was using Radio UserLand, but it doesn't like my iBook apparently. 03:47:10 is that windows/mac only? 03:47:19 RadioUserLand? yeah 03:47:24 Ampheta has a Linux version, tho 03:47:43 AmphetaDesk is perl, crammed into a shape for each platform :) 03:47:51 i did something similiar with zope, using ocs as my aggregate format. 03:47:58 heh 03:48:04 * tav recalls the news channel product 03:48:15 then how come tav kept bugging me to write one? 03:48:40 ? 03:48:46 hmm, how do I build python... i could run ./configure, setup.py ore ./install-sh 03:48:52 because mine sucked... i think. i was using dom for parsing instead of sax... and i didn't add in user subscribable filters and other goodies. 03:49:11 i rewrote the ocs/rss parsers for sax, but got sidetracked doing other stuff since than. 03:49:35 i'm going to work on it again as extra functionality for the python-repository. 03:49:50 but with subscriptions based on an event channel 03:50:23 hmm, spam assassin blocked one of my xena mails: 03:50:24 SPAM: Hit! (2 points) Message-Id is not valid, according to RFC-2822 03:50:44 so users can subscribe to all sorts of content within the site, have the events pile up in an event queue, which gets periodically flushed, and has user filters applied, so people don't get spammed with updates but instead get their choice of subscription terms and content. 03:51:09 but i digress... back to laundry. 03:51:11 I guess ESP Xnet Mailer 0.9.3.2 still needs some work. 03:51:32 hazmat, that sounds pretty cool 03:51:36 too bad zope hates me 03:54:55 I'm going to hold out for Zope 3 03:55:09 i would like to do that too 03:55:41 .email me@aaronsw.com hi aaronsw 03:55:41 email successfully sent. 03:59:13 so tav, to install zope i run python2.1 wo_pcgi.py, right? 03:59:23 where python2.1 is python2.1.2 04:00:12 whoa, it actually worked 04:04:57 yes 04:14:50 why is ther eno install thingy? 04:18:39 * sbp comes to you from a very different desktop... 04:18:46 using the LiteGnome theme through LiteStep 04:18:53 no aqua? 04:18:54 It's... um... different 04:19:00 I can't find an Aqua theme! 04:19:07 ugh 04:19:12 what about #litestep? 04:19:38 no, they're useless 04:19:54 oh well 04:21:11 the help file is rather funny - I'll try to excerpt it 04:21:24 """First of all, sorry for my bad grammatical errors, I hope you'll understand this piece! i'm a french :-)""" 04:21:42 I love that 04:22:38 heh 04:22:46 hmm, this photo album product won't install 04:25:50 hazmat / tav, how do i install a product. i know it's too simplistic to think i could just drop it in the Products folder. 04:25:58 aha, there's one on http://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=6 04:26:51 oh, maybe it'd help if i used the Products folder... 04:26:57 the multiple desktops thing is quite useful 04:32:26 hmm, this photo product doesn't have mass upload? 04:34:14 [non-cool URI omitted] 04:35:14 nice, you can add new metadata properties 04:35:24 but it really needs mass-upload to be useful to me, i think 04:35:29 i guess i can write that 04:37:46 hmm, claims to support webdav and ftp 04:37:55 i wonder if that'll work for me 04:39:44 hmm, i wonder how to start the server... maybe it runs on the normal HTTP port 04:40:33 * sbp has restored his normal desktop 04:40:50 you're not very big on change :) 04:41:26 certainly not 04:41:55 is that agreement or dissent? 04:42:51 agreement 04:47:57 * AaronSw uploads photos to Zope via FTP 04:48:26 * AaronSw gets Transmit, since he's tired of typing y to his ftp client 04:48:31 Ooh, this looks like fun: http://redfoot.sourceforge.net (probably not new to you guys) 04:48:39 yeah, it's neat 04:49:02 Redfoot: been there, haven't been able to install that 04:49:15 you and your poor windows machine 04:49:20 yeah 04:49:23 Really? Oh... 04:49:28 worked fine over here 04:49:29 * deus_x hugs his iBook 04:49:47 * sbp sulks 04:49:59 New button: [Extra Spiffy on Mac OS X] 04:50:13 heh, heh. Very nice 04:50:59 Hmm.. redfoot looks vaguely like what I wanted to do with my Zope-wannabe, only I didn't know what RDF was 04:51:17 heh 04:51:19 You do realize, sbp, that by uploading my photos i'm sort of commiting myself to zope. 04:51:33 * deus_x snickers. 04:52:07 now i have to think up a persistent URI for them. 04:52:11 Hmm... well, I suppose it's... worth it 04:52:18 i think aaronsw.com/photos/ will do 04:52:29 no! just tar.gz them, and send them to me by mail! :-) 04:53:15 i tried to copy stuff off my dictaphone, but it uses some funky audio out port i don't have a chord for! :-( 04:53:17 Now I see I was actually trying to make a database of triples to do perl object persistence. 04:53:32 lol @ chord 04:53:35 Only I didn't actually want to persist perl objects, specifically. 04:53:40 is that a P2Pian slip? 04:53:47 heh, yeah 04:53:58 I almost capitalized it, but thought better. 04:54:10 not much better, i guess :) 04:55:17 hmm, it won't let me move things around in ftp 04:56:43 heh, there are some great photos in here 04:57:26 * hazmat smells zope 04:58:21 indeed 04:58:27 tav told me to upgrade to 2.1.2 and it worked 04:58:38 wow, i took quite a lot of photos. 04:58:42 over 100 04:58:42 cool. 04:59:25 do let us know when they're up :-) 05:00:17 i expect them to be at http://www.aaronsw.com/photos/uk2001/ someday 05:00:47 digital camera pics, or scanned? 05:01:04 digital 05:01:12 hmm, i seem to have crashed it 05:01:50 anyway to restart just the FTP server? 05:04:28 python z2.py -X -fport_num 05:05:26 warning, the ftp server only works in passive only mode.. 05:05:39 good, my client is the same way 05:05:45 (well, my firewall really...) 05:05:54 to be honest, i found it flakey and generally turn it off on production sites. 05:06:10 and webdav? 05:06:15 works very well 05:06:33 the only problems are non-compliant clients... which zope tries to work around (think ms ;) 05:06:35 do you have to enable it separately? 05:07:05 does it run on the same port as the FTP server? 05:07:09 for source edits yes, you need to turn on a separate source port. for default uploading via PUT it just works. 05:07:15 no, it runs on its own port 05:07:20 webdav is http 05:07:30 s/FTP server/HTTP server/ 05:07:37 sorry... had my mind on FTP 05:08:19 it you can use it over http. but for clients that don't understand 'source-link' you need to turn it on. 05:08:24 s/it/ 05:08:57 iotw. the default http server does webdav, for some clients you might need to turn on the source port via -W command line switch (followed by a port number) 05:10:16 interesting 05:10:37 odd: 05:10:41 PASV 05:10:41 227 Entering Passive Mode (63,149,73,20,6,71) 05:10:41 LIST IMG_0958.JPG 05:10:41 550 Could not list directory. 05:10:47 -- 05:11:30 you need to pass in auth info?? 05:15:51 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:17:34 i guess there's a bug in Zope's FTP 05:17:38 no, no, i'm already logged in 05:17:48 it seems to only support LIST on directories, not files 05:18:05 hey GabeW 05:18:19 yo AaronSw - brb 05:18:21 GabeW has quit (Client Quit) 05:19:06 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:20:23 hello again 05:22:19 hello again agin 05:22:48 like goldfish saying hello 05:24:19 * AaronSw gets an emergency XSLT assistance request: 05:24:20 -- 05:24:28 I've been getting my feet wet with XSL and am really pressed for time. 05:24:29 I want to turn an xml document with this content: 05:24:29 value1 05:24:29 value2 05:24:30 ... 05:24:30 can I help 05:24:30 Into something like: 05:24:31 name1: value1 05:24:33 name2: value2 05:24:35 ... 05:24:37 -- 05:25:16 i think the name() function is useful here 05:25:21 -- 05:25:22 I saw some example code that used "name(.)", but IE 5.1 says it isn't valid 05:25:22 XSL. 05:25:22 -- 05:25:30 Heh, i guess he should upgrade 05:25:48 I think pre ie 5.5 used MS's "xsl" - donno 05:26:06 yeah, it's pretty awful 05:26:12 i find Michael Kay's book really really really useful 05:26:52 I just did some nontrivial XSLT and its almost fun - functional programming is something I've never really gotten into before 05:26:56 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:27:15 I looked at the syntax and decided it was for masochists. 05:27:50 for example, Dan Connolly writes HTML presentations of RDF documents in XSLT. it's just insane to me 05:28:17 well, its not that complicated once you understand its really a functional programming language with some funky rules for firing templates (if you want it) 05:29:04 i'm sure it's not that complicated but the strange syntax rules and lack of decent functions make things pretty painful, it seems 05:29:34 yeah, and there are some oddities (like you can't do "two pass" transforms without extensions in 1.0) 05:30:40 * AaronSw tries to find the magic key commands to make MacOSX--WebDAV-->Zope work. 05:31:28 i've also been playing around with lisp some -- fun stuff 05:32:11 ooh, you like? 05:32:26 lisp's another language with syntax problems, i think. 05:33:36 its pleasantly simple 05:33:55 it forces the programmer to conform to the machine, but it then gives you a lot of power to do nifty things 05:34:04 I'm not saying I'm in love with it 05:34:22 just that it feels nice to work with it -- at least in the trivial way I am now 05:34:22 i suppose it might be cool if you had an editor that gernerated the nescessary parens from whitespace-indented trees 05:34:27 hehe 05:34:37 we're talking about e-lisp here ;-) 05:34:42 oh? 05:35:55 well, this started when I had emacs open and wanted to do something and it just kind of kept on going from there 05:36:09 I took a class that required us to learn lisp in undergrad, so I kinda knew what I was doing 05:36:31 aha 05:36:41 does emacs do the paren generation? 05:37:05 oh no 05:37:13 but it does do expression highlighting 05:37:18 * AaronSw has managed to avoid learning Esc-Meta-Alt-Cokebottle commands 05:38:53 I've been using emacs probably for 5-6 years and I learn something new every week.. 05:39:11 i'm not sure whether that's good or bad. ;-) 05:39:51 its at least *interesting* ;-) 05:40:20 Emacs: Entertainment while you code. 05:40:29 absolutamente! 05:40:41 and the mines game in xemacs is swell! 05:40:49 oh man 05:40:58 now i know what people w/o IRC do all day 05:41:16 learn elisp and xslt! 05:42:13 zope's webdav server seems rather convinced that / does not exist 05:46:21 well, if emacs is entertaing, zope must breed insanity 05:46:34 woohoo 05:47:51 That's okay, if you return to emacs after Zope, it has a psychologist built in to help you. 05:48:39 ah, eliza 05:49:02 And if you happen to use emacs to edit content in Zope via efs/tramp, you can have eliza in another buffer coaxing you through it. 05:49:26 i'm starting to understand emacs' appearl 05:49:32 err appeal 05:49:47 tav has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:49:54 At one point I even thought it might be useful to have my computer boot up into emacs, but then I snapped out of it. 05:53:25 i love how zope lets you login with completely bogus usernames and passwords 05:54:28 really? 05:54:32 yep 05:54:39 that fucked up d00d 05:54:44 it just says "Unauthorized" whenever you do something 05:54:51 oh 05:55:07 wait - how is that letting you log in? 05:55:17 well, like via FTP for example 05:55:29 -- 05:55:31 220 vorpal FTP server (Medusa Async V1.18 [experimental]) ready. 05:55:31 Name (vorpal.logicerror.com:aaronsw): admin 05:55:31 331 Password required. 05:55:32 Password: 05:55:32 230 Login successful. 05:55:32 Remote system type is UNIX. 05:55:35 -- 05:55:50 I dunno, i thought login successful implied i did something right 05:56:11 and via HTTP, it never tells you that your username or password is invalid. it just says unauthorized 05:56:33 well for http its a consequence of how basic auth works 05:56:52 it could still check the username/password headers 05:57:42 what its doing internally is raising an exception 05:58:26 if you use one of the alternative auth schemes you can have it do other stuff like comment on wrong username, wrong pass etc. 05:59:39 agh.. i guess it isn't a consequence of basic auth then. 05:59:54 yeah, eactly 06:00:42 sbp, are you on? 06:01:35 hmm, it does appear so 06:04:22 how hard is it to do pagination in zope? i.e. break up my folder of 300 pics into 3 separate pages 06:04:40 well... just have them be displayed that way -- not actually move the pics 06:05:21 easy. 06:05:39 ok, good 06:07:54 * sbp waves 06:08:11 Sorry, I was trying out a cool undelete utility on some of my old discs 06:08:29 ooh, neat 06:08:59 you're having some difficulty with Zope/HTTP auth? 06:09:17 just zope and webdav in general 06:09:34 how are the files? Have you even been able to FTP them yet? 06:10:32 i'm working on it now 06:10:49 heh: http://www.hyperorg.com/gifs/innovationchart1.jpg 06:11:29 heh: http://www.satirewire.com/briefs/polygamy.shtml 06:15:51 @ http://www.unblinking.com/heh/googlewhack.htm 06:15:57 B: http://www.unblinking.com/heh/googlewhack.htm from sbp 06:16:21 B:|Googlewhack 06:16:22 titled item B 06:16:52 .google google linux kernel cluster 06:16:53 google linux kernel cluster: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Parallel_Computing/Beowulf 06:20:15 there are over 100 fecking results for "antimatter cannibalism"! 06:20:30 heh 06:21:11 i already found some winning googlewhacks 06:21:19 but not enough Marks marks, tho 06:22:25 "antimatter toponymy" is a Googlewhack, today 06:22:56 but in a few days? it'll be on #swhack 06:23:18 that's what makes googlewhacking so curious 06:23:34 .google antimatter toponymy 06:23:35 no results found. 06:23:46 no, you need one hit to be a googlewhack 06:23:54 oh. tsk 06:24:40 I better sleep. Photos are uploading, slowly. 06:24:49 * AaronSw hits return a few 100 more times, just in case 06:25:11 nite 06:25:26 'night 06:32:29 hooray! 06:32:31 "microtubules toponymy" 06:32:33 .google microtubules toponymy 06:32:34 microtubules toponymy: http://www.crrel.usace.army.mil/library/antarctic/antar32.htm 06:33:34 of course, that's soon to change 06:36:21 heh: http://www.blastitude.com/5/pg8.htm 06:40:36 anyway... to score up 06:40:42 microtubules: 41,800 06:41:03 toponymy: 3,350 06:41:06 that's feeble 06:41:34 140,030,000 06:43:20 Hmm... vestigial tripminder 06:43:22 .google vestigial tripminder 06:43:23 vestigial tripminder: http://www.geocities.com/jeeves77/cougar.html 06:44:09 vestigial: 33,100; tripminder: 96; 3,177,600 06:48:39 "sbp toponymy" is a Googlewhack! 06:48:54 but sbp isn't strictly a word... 06:49:30 sbp: 142,000; toponymy: 3,350; 475,700,000 06:49:41 anyway... 06:49:44 Gotta run 07:09:49 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:26:02 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:26:02 hazmat has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:26:02 xena has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:26:02 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:32:36 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 08:32:36 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 08:32:36 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 08:32:36 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 12:40:56 tansaku (~sam@h133-198.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:22:51 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:42:59 .google googlewhacking 15:44:33 googlewhacking: http://www.garyturner.net/blog.html&e=922 15:55:11 Noah Grey is blogging again: http://www.noahgrey.com/ 15:55:41 @http://www.noahgrey.com/ 15:55:43 @ http://www.noahgrey.com/ 15:56:28 C: http://www.noahgrey.com/ from AaronSw 15:56:45 C:|noah grey 15:56:53 C::As poweful as ever. 15:57:25 titled item C 15:58:05 commented item C 16:20:47 @ http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/5/23807.html 16:21:05 D:|Woz goes wireless - by stealth 16:22:12 D: The Register from AaronSw 16:22:52 titled item D 16:22:56 D::Woz working on new GPS/802.11 project to find household items? Sounds like what danbri and I were looking for. 16:23:18 D::via [http://www.robotwisdom.com/|Jorn] 16:23:35 commented item D 16:24:16 commented item D 16:24:17 McCusker: "Did you know I always name my hard disk "chaos"? Discordian." 16:25:16 heh: 'Poe showed me a comic. "Look! XML Avengers just came out!"' 16:39:55 [Global Notice] Hi all. Due to sponsor commitments we will need to do some rerouting in a few minutes. One main rotation, a European hub and a couple of small servers will be affected. They'll split and rejoin. Apologies for the inconvenience. 16:43:40 D::New York Times: [Satellite Start-Up for Apple Co-Founder|http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/23/technology/ebusiness/23WHEE.html] 16:44:20 commented item D 16:44:20 D::via [BoingBoing|http://boingboing.net/2002_01_01_archive.html#8973248] 16:45:00 commented item D 16:48:02 Boingo launches!! 16:56:29 [Global Notice] Okay folks. We will now have a major netsplit and join to fix that sponsor problem, followed by a couple more smaller ones. Please bear with us. 16:57:00 BenSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 16:57:58 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:02:18 Oh, fuck me - Noah Grey is doing better than I am w.r.t. his agoraphobia! 17:02:40 """For the first time, I did my own grocery shopping, paying for them myself; and for the first time, paying for things myself became an almost-ordinary matter of course.""" 17:02:50 BenSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:04:11 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:04:54 But it's truly great that he seems to be recovering a bit 17:05:19 Yeah. 17:05:28 He's also way older than you -- he's getting married, dude. 17:05:50 Oh. Wow 17:06:03 That's why he's felling so much better. 17:06:06 err feeling 17:06:28 lol: http://www.macscripter.net/unscripted.html 17:07:58 wonderful account:- 17:07:59 [[[ 17:07:59 I am not going in the field. 17:07:59 "Wouldn't it be great if you could—" 17:07:59 I am not going in the field. 17:08:04 ]]] - http://noahgrey.com/archives/old/00000134.shtml 17:13:04 that's an awesome story 17:20:41 that unscripted story is pretty awesome too :-) 17:21:07 yeah, wondering if i should do something like that to my TiBook ;) 17:21:17 heh, heh 17:23:13 ouch. Jim Roepecke got laid off yesterday. His son is being born today. http://jim.roepcke.com/2002/01/23#item4035 17:25:08 ooh, that's not good 17:38:04 heh: """I'm guessing that most people don't go beyond the second page of search query results before changing or refining a search. So does anyone actually check pages 3 - 3,200,000? (on a ten results per page query) No I don't think they do.""" - http://www.garyturner.net/blog.html 17:39:06 the funny bit is that he goes on to suggest a Google "replacement" 17:42:07 D::Reuters: [Apple Creator Wozniak Forms Start-Up|http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/020123/business_tech_wozniak_startup_dc_1.html] (via [BoingBoing|http://boingboing.net/2002_01_01_archive.html#8971528], [/.|http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/23/1516249&mode=thread]) 17:42:09 commented item D 17:42:41 fuel-powered powerbooks? http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,49717,00.html 18:06:42 Wozniak: """Woz:I actually sent Bill an email with a picture of myself smiling as I got 'pied' after my college graduation. It was for fun, to make a photo captioned "Apple Pie-in-ear" (pioneer) and I appreciated the humor.""" - http://www.woz.com/ 18:07:19 lol 18:07:51 woz is so great 18:08:27 @ http://homepage.mac.com/steve/Resume.html 18:08:33 E: Steve's Resume from AaronSw 18:08:45 E::via [Woz|http://www.woz.com/] 18:08:46 commented item E 18:08:54 E::Steve's not currently looking for work, AFAIK. 18:08:55 commented item E 18:09:09 objective: 'I'm looking for a fixer-upper with a solid foundation. Am willing to tear down walls, build bridges, and light fires. I have great experience, lots of energy, a bit of that "vision thing" and I'm not afraid to start from the beginning.' 18:09:55 lol: on his work at the original Apple "Invested heavily in funding start-up company (Sold my VW mini-bus)." 18:10:10 E::Really funny resume. 18:10:11 commented item E 18:12:37 weird, I was just reading that! 18:12:57 I was going to paste the link in here... to find that you'd chumped it 18:13:11 heh 18:13:53 heh, Woz likes this checkers programm that can beat every human on earth. 18:14:24 it can see a win from 157 moves away. (most of my games don't even last that long!) 18:15:08 ugh, I was just reading that page too 18:16:08 * AaronSw goes back to coding PyChord 18:16:10 now I'm watching http://homepage.mac.com/steve/iMovieTheater.html Is that O.K., or do you want to look at it too? :-) 18:16:15 heh, heh 18:16:22 oh, i already watched that. 18:16:28 aaaaaaaaargh! 18:16:37 lol! we must have they same surfing havits. 18:16:42 err habits 18:16:54 except that I'm a little slow 18:17:01 well, you need a faster modem 18:17:26 true 18:32:29 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 18:34:22 hey rillian 18:34:26 man, The Cirlce code is a mess 18:37:33 hey there 18:46:16 did you see the article on everquest's economy on /.? 18:49:36 hmm, no... 18:50:23 wow, interesting 18:51:23 "Norrath's GDP per capita is higher than that of China and India; its currency sells for about a penny per platinum piece, which makes it more valuable in $US than the yen; a typical person can make about US$3.50 an hour working there by farming the bots and selling the loot; the deflation rate is almost 30 percent annually." 18:52:08 site seems to be slashdotted 18:52:11 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828 18:57:14 neat: http://www.archive.org/internet/LoC_sculpture.html 18:57:56 yep 18:58:51 Gotta run 18:58:55 rillian has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 18:58:55 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 18:58:55 hazmat has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 18:58:55 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 18:58:55 xena has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 18:59:36 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 18:59:37 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 19:01:08 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 19:02:54 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 19:03:14 um 19:03:50 that was interesting 19:04:51 sbp and aaron play the visualization game: 19:05:01 The chunky cheese laden Suez canal yesterday took a whizzing leap through a gorge of pleasurable mistrusts, landing upside out in a gurgle of palindromic hippos. The ramifications on purple envelope holding cape frogs are not known at this time, but we will keep you informed 19:05:12 AaronSw: http://snow.thaumas.net/~giles/SSRN_ID294828_code020114590.pdf 19:05:26 canal, cheese in it, jumps up in the air, into a gorge with pleasurable mistrusts on the side, spils its upside (the cheese) on to symetric hippos in a big gurgling orgy sort of thing. while the cape frogs sit watching CNN fidling purple envelopes 19:05:29 thanks, rillian 19:07:29 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 19:09:25 Ooh, an encrypted PDF. 19:09:32 wow, 40-bit RC4 encryption 19:09:48 what's the point of encrypting it if it's designed to be read? 19:10:16 so that you can't print it or copy parts of it, of course 19:10:25 no, printing is allowed 19:10:33 ah 19:10:46 my question is really: where's the encryption key? it has to be on my machine if i'm to read it 19:11:15 * rillian should know the answer to that 19:11:36 and if i have the encryption key, what's the point of encrypting it? 19:11:51 doesn't ghostscript have the decryption stuff built-in? 19:12:01 probably means the 'what-can-you-modify' bits are password-protected 19:12:20 which of course is up to the viewer app to enforce 19:12:28 AaronSw: gs supports decryption, but that's all 19:12:33 interesting 19:12:55 you actually can encrypt the internal document data 19:13:07 so that you need the passphrase to read it 19:13:22 that makes sense 19:13:34 makes more sense to run the whole thing through gpg :) 19:13:44 :) 19:14:10 but like most drm stuff, the rest of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense 19:14:34 Heh: "And I assure you, I faced many dangers, and died many, many times, in order to gather impressions and bring them back for you." 19:25:44 Wow, we just got AirPort in our office. It's like magic. 19:25:49 heh, it's awesome 19:26:12 I just took my iBook outside with me for a smoke. 19:26:25 lol 19:26:37 I need to give up the cigarettes, but maybe I still have an excuse to go outside. 19:26:49 "Because it still works out there!" 19:27:54 i need to quit as well... 19:28:00 This article is great: 'Thinking that an Elizabethan tone would be helpful, I shout "Brave adventurers! I seek safe conduct to Rivervale! I can only compensate you with my eternal gratitude!" The woods and fields erupt in guffaws and insults: "ne1 want to hold the newbie's hand?" and "geteth a clueth you n00beth." then i get eaten by a bear.' 20:03:11 BLURB:On this day... 20:03:14 F: On this day... from AaronSw 20:03:37 F::...in 1984 the first Macintosh was introduced. 20:03:39 commented item F 20:07:48 really? cool 20:22:39 photos at http://vorpal.logicerror.com:8080/aaronsw/photos/uk2001/ if you haven't noticed yet [non-cool uri] 20:23:21 I was thinking about putting http://vorpal.logicerror.com:8080/aaronsw/photos/uk2001/IMG_1029.JPG/view on c2.com ;-) 20:27:35 vorpal.logicerror? you should have something like paradox or beggingthequestion 20:28:29 heh 20:28:38 i hadn't tought of that. 20:28:42 converse and inverse, too 20:31:44 oh, sbp. I was curious if this is where the word 'smeg' came from: http://vorpal.logicerror.com:8080/aaronsw/photos/uk2001/IMG_1020.JPG/view ;-) 20:31:47 Have I hit you guys up for your opions on the Mile End yet? 20:31:56 I don't think so. Mile End? 20:32:24 in London's East End 20:32:31 Queen Mary U of London 20:32:40 what's it like as a place to live? 20:33:54 oh, right 20:38:43 I did ask then? :-) 20:39:51 yes, you did ask us 20:39:51 on the flight back we learned that the airline was an XML pioneer, having developed the PiZza Markup Language (PZML): http://vorpal.logicerror.com:8080/aaronsw/photos/uk2001/IMG_1172.JPG/view 20:39:53 yes. 20:39:55 .google swhack rillian queen mary 20:40:16 heh 20:40:40 so, any suggestions for getting terminal.app to launch under ssh.agent? 20:40:44 ssh-agent? 20:43:00 * sbp returns 20:43:06 * sbp looks through photos 20:45:20 where'd the Wiki Web image come from? 20:46:07 This is an interesting email: "Can you post this to we site." 20:46:42 no results found. 20:47:50 Heh, that one of Stu looks funny 20:51:33 rillian, wes has instructions on his site 20:51:39 .google hack terminal.app ssh-agent 20:51:43 hack terminal.app ssh-agent: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$3415?mode=day 20:52:08 the wiki web image was taken at some big toy store on Oxford Street 20:53:32 anyone know what microsoft publisher files contain? 21:23:01 nope, sorry 21:23:44 AaronSw: that link isn't helpful 21:24:06 hmm... let me see if i can dig up the message then 21:24:47 this might work: http://cory.eecs.berkeley.edu/~kevinvv/SSHAgentServices.html 21:25:40 aha. I thought it might have to be something like that 21:25:56 the problem is you can't launch application bundles from the command line 21:27:45 there's some more stuff at http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:7QIyd7t2hDgC:wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader%245577%3Fmode%3Dtopic 21:31:25 huh. I thought they all had to be children of the ssh-agent process 21:31:29 for security 21:31:43 but I guess running your entire session isn't that much more secure 21:37:26 Well, it all started with Morbus' odd little rantings elsewhere on the great OPN network 21:37:50 I was like, "no way nark, no way is it gonna happen, see? You can't out-weird me, no way!" 21:38:08 [21:28] Like a rhapsody in colorful kindness, Rick said, "get your toe out of my nose-hair clippers' dunebuggy!" 21:38:09 [21:28] beat that for insanity, Morbus 21:38:25 [much ranting] 21:38:26 [21:28] no one has been able to come up with a sentence i can't visualize, yet. 21:38:43 [i used to play this game with family] 21:38:53 [N.B. erm... the datestamps aren't correct - I should have set dircproxy up to give me them] 21:39:05 I proposed: Funky candles hold large almond shaving ideas in holled out underwear 21:39:14 Aaron deftly countered: funky looking candles on the left holding out underwear filled with ideas about how almond-shaving will take over the world 21:39:26 then came the chuzzler: The chunky cheese laden Suez canal yesterday took a whizzing leap through a gorge of pleasurable mistrusts, landing upside out in a gurgle of palindromic hippos. The ramifications on purple envelope holding cape frogs are not known at this time, but we will keep you informed 21:39:34 .wn chuzzler 21:39:39 but Aaron was defiant: canal, cheese in it, jumps up in the air, into a gorge with pleasurable mistrusts on the side, spils its upside (the cheese) on to symetric hippos in a big gurgling orgy sort of thing 21:39:51 and thus we arrive to the current state of play 21:40:16 I must scheme and strategize, in order to secure certain victory 21:42:55 The filleted sidewalk, its pockets ablazen with meritous certainties, cascaded under a dish of wanton harmony - sinues poised like a carbon flame in the heath, caramel always licking the spoon 21:43:45 ooh, he's good. 21:45:22 Morbus (~morbus@63.173.138.23) has joined #swhack 21:45:26 logster, where am i? 21:45:26 See http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-24#T21-45-26 21:45:30 thanks, logster. 21:45:38 Morbus has left #swhack 21:47:18 AaronSw: thanks for the ssh-agent links 21:47:26 np, did they work? 21:47:48 a rather charred sidewalk, cracks filled with sparkling good news, flows under a big plate of bad music, cracks making a flame shape (to heat the dish), in a big pot of melted caramel, all on a spoon, but tending to flow off the edge 21:48:01 take that! 21:48:10 very tricky, i must admit 21:48:16 ooh, good interpretation 21:49:04 although I'm not sure how "wanton" morphed into "bad" :-) 21:49:24 really? 21:49:37 * sbp can tell that he can't just spew out any old crap - he must construct and construe 21:49:59 AaronSw: the env trick works. have the relogin to see if the LoginServices plugin works 21:50:06 wanton: "Marked by unprovoked, gratuitous maliciousness; capricious and unjust: wanton destruction." 21:50:16 rillian has quit ("laundry") 21:50:21 fair enough 21:51:16 rillian does an awful lot of laundry, doesn't he? 21:51:48 you think? 21:52:26 I do indeed 21:52:44 i assume he shares it with his flatmates 21:53:12 yeah 21:55:17 I must run in order to avoid missing Frasier. I shall return to hopefully conclude the game a bit later on 22:15:29 i remembered part of the chorus to that song i was looking for 22:15:29 well... the tune, not the words 22:16:43 perhaps "trapped!" by the misfits 22:21:16 nope 22:28:49 oooh! I found it 22:28:49 the lyrics were really "rap, rap, rap, they call him the Rapper" 22:30:05 "Rapper", by Jaggerz 22:30:33 come again? 22:31:12 remember that song i was looking for 22:31:12 the one i heard on the radio 22:31:26 I thought it was "Trapped" by Bruce Springsteen? 22:31:27 i thought it was "trapped trapped trapped", etc. 22:31:35 nope, i was wrong 22:32:04 you also said that it sounded a bit like the later Beatles songs, didn't you? 22:32:26 yep 22:33:17 i'm pretty sure this one is it... downloading it now 22:35:30 ok... here we go 22:35:30 yep, this is it! 22:42:45 * sbp checks out the SWAG action from this day one year ago 22:44:01 [[[ 22:44:02 > My advice: leave it, forget it, let it rest, write some code, 22:44:02 > prod Aaron and Seth to enable queries, etc. 22:44:02 This is being worked upon now. Hopefully we will have something to play 22:44:02 around with, but we need more data in the database first :-) 22:44:02 ]]] 22:44:11 From: "Sean B. Palmer" 22:44:12 To: 22:44:12 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:14 PM 22:44:12 Subject: Re: SWAG: What is the Semantic Web? 22:45:04 Hmm... my posts started to straighten up about March-time, I suppose 22:45:18 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 22:46:13 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 22:47:03 Are you like doing "On this day in SWAG" or something? 22:47:23 straighten up? 22:47:37 yes, and yes 22:51:44 This ZeoSync "perfect compression" is crazy. 22:52:03 heh, yeah. I think I reported that on BIOH 22:52:05 They claim that by representing things in higher-dimensional space the same "point" can represent multiple objects (a square and a cube) 22:52:20 heh, heh 22:52:30 They use the "Low Kolmogorov Complexity construct". 22:52:42 Thus the pigeonhole principle is false. 22:52:43 oh of course. It's all so obvious now 22:52:57 Well, we'll see just how good it is when they release it 22:53:07 sounds like a method used to analyse sequences for randomness 22:53:17 But I have a feeling that it may be released on April 1st :-) 22:53:42 Hmm, but they say that if the multidimensional space is saturated, then it doesn't work. 22:54:01 of course 22:54:12 what article are you reading? 22:54:21 Zeosync.com (flash) 22:55:32 Technology > Technical Process 22:55:37 ugh, I *hate* it when sites have music to them 22:55:43 bad music too 22:55:56 I mean, as if Flash wasn't bad enough to begin with 22:57:07 I'm not sure how'd they prove that it worked without releasing the software, tho. 22:57:15 argh! How do I get it to shut the fuck up? 22:57:23 click the sound button in the upper right 22:57:28 the little speaker icon 22:58:19 too late - I copied the text out into a text editor and shut the damn thing up 23:00:39 wow, they really piled the crap into that, didn't they? My favourite bit is "it is possible and is not a theoretical impossibility " 23:02:04 I like the trademarks most of all 23:02:12 heh 23:02:28 whatever happened to BIOH? 23:02:34 still, it's promising, as long as people don't keep spouting it as "perfect compression". Perfect compression is a stupid term 23:02:46 BIOH: dunno. Got bored with it, I suppose 23:03:06 perfect compression would be cool, tho 23:03:17 but what is perfect compression? 23:03:27 it's the ability to represent everything with one symbol 23:03:35 which is impossible 23:03:35 or simply the existance of a message 23:03:57 i dunno 23:04:02 *or* you could define perfect compression as the best possible algorithm for compressing data 23:04:22 but how do you define best? 23:04:48 which in current compression schemes is kinda impossible too, since for every compression algorithm, there is a series of data which are imcompressable 23:04:54 best: dunno 23:05:18 a better way to define it would be the ability to order the possible inputs have them compressed to their position in the order. 23:05:26 but if this can compress average text files 10 times better than the best compression algorithms to date, then I reckon that's a success 23:06:44 wow, CNET owns com.com 23:06:49 wool 23:06:53 wool? heh, heh 23:06:59 thus news.com.com 23:07:00 www.com, I presume 23:07:06 no, that's some isp 23:07:25 it used to be some music place, as I recall 23:07:45 but I meant www.com.com 23:08:16 Hmm... same as com.com 23:08:17 hmm, now it's some crazy portal 23:09:06 it won't last long, I'll bet 23:09:35 http://faqs.org/faqs/compression-faq/part1/section-8.html 23:09:40 tansaku (~sam@n146-073.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:12:08 thanks, deltab 23:12:09 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:12:42 tansaku (~sam@n146-073.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:17:37 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:17:39 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:18:40 deus_x has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:22:24 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 23:23:27 Morbus (~Morbus@s121.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 23:24:55 Morbus has left #swhack 23:33:37 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 23:34:13 BenSw has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:39:03 tansaku has quit () 23:43:07 Morbus woz 'ere? 23:48:23 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:48:23 sbp has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:52:39 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:52:39 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:56:18 xena has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 23:56:41 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 23:56:41 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 23:56:41 tav` (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 23:56:41 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 23:56:41 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 23:56:41 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 23:56:46 lmfjyh obfuscated C: http://www.ioccc.org/years.html 23:57:03 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 23:57:25 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 23:57:27 tav` (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 2002-01-25.txt0100644000014300000000000012117607424366453011707 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:30 deus_x has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:02:21 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:02:21 sbp has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:02:21 tav` has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:02:21 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:03:56 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 00:03:56 tav` (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:56 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 00:03:56 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:56 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 00:04:43 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 00:05:23 deus_x has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:05:23 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:05:23 sbp has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:05:23 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:07:01 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 00:07:01 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 00:07:01 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:07:01 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 00:07:53 tav` (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 00:10:45 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:11:43 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:11:59 tansaku (~sam@n146-073.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:01:22 hm, if i subclass a type, how do I get at its data? 01:03:00 get at its data? 01:03:05 yeah 01:03:27 i guess you just examine self. hm 01:03:27 how so? 01:03:37 I mean, it'll inherit 01:03:46 you can use __dict__ or something 01:03:58 no, it's just dict 01:04:18 that's funky 01:07:54 Heh, I tried that and it segfaulted. 01:08:04 def __getitem__(self, i): 01:08:04 if self[i]: return self[i] 01:08:04 else: return None 01:10:07 self[i]? ew... 01:10:49 try "for key in self.__dict__.keys(): getattr(self, key)" 01:10:57 or something like that 01:12:29 er... return getattr[...], that is 01:44:24 heh, heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20365619020122.gif 01:44:46 pfft, that won't work 01:45:14 lol 01:52:28 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:54:48 .seen AaronSw 01:54:48 AaronSw seen in #swhack saying: [ lol ] ~ 9 min(s) 33 sec(s) ago 01:54:57 .seen zero1za 01:54:57 GabeW: no match found: zero1za 01:55:04 hm? 01:55:08 sorry 01:55:36 playing with .xena 01:56:04 ah 02:00:58 AaronSw it segfaulted for a new style class when you tried access __dict__ ?? 02:01:18 no.. when i tried to access self[i] 02:01:32 but of course that was in the function which define self[i]... 02:01:52 what do I use for a list? self.__list__? 02:02:18 not sure, i'm still using 2.1 b/c of zope 02:02:33 AttributeError: 'Finger' object has no attribute '__list__' 02:04:13 my test class... 02:04:15 >>> class foo(list): 02:04:15 ... def test(self, method): return method(self) 02:06:01 no idea. 02:06:13 does that work? 02:07:28 AaronSw: __dict__: http://python.org/doc/lib/specialattrs.html 02:07:29 my test class works, but i'm not sure how to access the list's data structures without using its methods 02:07:50 deltab, cool. thanks 02:07:58 dict is empty. 02:08:01 so __dict__[1]? 02:08:15 how is that different from __getitem__[1] 02:08:19 that works 02:08:43 if you use the sequence/list methods to access the internal data structures 02:08:53 __dict__ contains attributes 02:09:03 new style classes... 02:09:18 not items 02:09:27 ahh.. 02:09:36 a.b vs. a['b'] 02:11:21 oh. i want the item 02:11:44 you can use __getitem__[index_num] 02:15:08 this works 02:15:10 >>> class foo(list): 02:15:10 ... def __getitem__(self, i): 02:15:10 ... print 'hi' 02:15:10 ... return list.__getitem__(self,i) 02:15:28 hmm, isn't that cheating? :) 02:15:57 you can worry about elegance ;) i'd rather move on ;) 02:16:46 hmm, there's no hasitem? 02:17:39 its a list, you can check the length and determine if the index is out of range. 02:18:17 __len__() 02:18:30 or more elegantly perhaps len(self) 02:18:43 hmm, i suppose i can 02:19:04 so: if len(self) < i: return list.__getitem__[i] 02:19:43 why bother, the __getitem__ will do the checking for you and (and more besides) you're reduplicating. 02:20:01 because if it doesn't have it i want to return a default value 02:21:12 you would need to check thats its also an integer, or to fudge try: self.__getitem__(i) except: return default 02:21:37 which needs some fine tuning of that catch. 02:22:01 ah, good idea 02:22:06 except IndexError: return default 02:22:38 aghh.. needs a return too ;) 02:22:58 hazmat: you can have an independent 2.2 - just make altinstall 02:23:17 cool, seems to work 02:23:20 deltab: i already have an independent 2.2, i just don't have time to play with it cause i'm doing zope work. 02:23:22 def __getitem__(self, i): 02:23:22 try: return list.__getitem__(self, i) 02:23:22 except IndexError: return None 02:23:36 thanks 02:23:43 np 02:24:51 although i suppose i should start getting ready for the z3 sprint... sigh.. to much to do. 02:25:02 sprint? 02:25:40 .google zope sprint 02:25:41 zope sprint: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/SprintSchedule 02:26:22 cool: 02:26:23 Jan 31-Feb 2 The potential topics for this sprint includes package management. Participants include Casey Duncan, Steve Alexander, and Kapil Thangavelu. 02:26:28 A sprint is a multi-day session of intense Zope3 development organized around extreme programming (XP) ideas such as pair programming. 02:26:35 sounds like esp0rgy 02:34:06 Another requirement for my weblog software: I want Swhack to flow in via a sidebar. 02:35:10 a moz sidebar? 02:36:02 heh, heh: """They're trying to reinstate the draft!""" - http://radio.weblogs.com/0100663/2002/01/22.html#a52 02:36:26 no, a CSS sidebar 02:36:54 css sidebar? 02:37:09 yeah, just a little colored strip running down the side of the webpage 02:37:16 i.e. a real sidebar 02:37:33 right - html with css formatting (html gen'd dynamically, but on the server side) 02:37:34 I thought maybe I could have some commentary too, but shortened to: 02:37:34 * Header 02:37:34 A: I think this rocks 02:37:35 S: It sucks! 02:37:35 A: What do you mean? 02:37:42 GabeW, yep 02:38:15 my daughter is saying "hi" and pointing at things she's interested in - so cool 02:38:30 cool! hi there! 02:38:43 Aaron: you're doing what now? 02:38:47 she's not pointing at you, but she can now press individual keys on the keyboard 02:38:53 * sbp waves to Gabe's daughter 02:39:14 I see you've stopped calling her GabeW Jr. 02:39:26 i appreciate that 02:39:31 heh, the author has a rather appropriate name: http://www.sciam.com/explorations/2002/012102aibo/ 02:39:38 who, me? 02:39:46 yeah 02:39:52 She does have a name, you know. 02:40:47 rats. I should have kept up the misplaced monkierism 02:41:50 heh, heh: "license to kvetch" - http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/23.html#a211 02:42:04 Radio URIs are so boring 02:44:30 It's worrying when people need maths degrees just to interpret their grades: """I just figured out, that with my rough 83-85 average in History, I can go down as low as a 65 and as high as a 115.5 without moving my grade from a B. Time to stop worrying.""" - http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/23.html#a215 02:44:45 Heh. 02:44:55 I had funny explaining this to people before finals in my last year at school. 02:45:15 They'd all come up to me and I'd punch in their grades on my calculator. 02:46:25 I almost convinced a couple to write "BE A HERO, TAKE A ZERO" on their paper with me. 02:47:02 the teacher wrote back: "don't start the morning without coffee" or something like that. 02:47:57 ->#plex 02:53:11 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 02:53:31 swhack! 02:53:51 go swhack yourself 02:53:51 swack! 02:54:11 wmf! 02:54:23 I see you finally posted your bit about IDL. 02:54:34 huh? 02:54:52 the thing about aete resources. 02:54:59 why "finally"? 02:55:14 because you were telling us about it back at WWDC as I recall. 02:55:24 oh, I don't remember that 02:57:15 heh, we got jeremiah on IRC./ 02:57:30 we need him in here 02:57:45 soon, my fiend 02:57:48 err friend ;) 02:57:56 lol 02:58:00 fiend is appropriate, no? 02:58:21 yeah, but he's not my fiend 02:58:31 for inviting J into swhack? 02:58:46 but all the cool people hang out here, plus wmf 02:59:02 No, J should be here. 02:59:05 only the big J is missing. And WL 02:59:45 and Morby 03:01:11 Haiku for the day: Kettles are quite nice | They boil up my water | For making some tea 03:02:19 perhaps not particularly profound, but pretty perculiar 03:03:15 Does anybody know what song "Nobody's Fault But Mine" is alledgedly based upon? 03:04:13 What does the .NET CLR have to do with Microsoft's "XML web services platform"? 03:04:36 GabeW2 (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 03:04:41 nothing 03:04:43 GabeW has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:05:00 Ah, ok then. 03:05:37 except I guess some of their XML web services stuff is written in IL 03:05:39 uh, it was by Blind Willie Johnson originally, it seems. You guys are useless 03:06:02 what are we, your own personal google-bitches? 03:06:25 that's xena's job 03:07:09 looks like I won't lose to /. in this year's bloggies 03:07:13 I had expected the level of incedental knowledge on this channels patriarchs to be higher, but clearly I was misinformed 03:07:45 you're not nominated in the bloggies, so you've already lost. 03:07:48 well we know how to spell 'incidental' 03:08:18 I forgot to nominate myself 03:09:20 what category were you supposed to be nominated in? 03:09:27 best design? 03:09:55 heh 03:10:01 seriously now... 03:10:04 i think you beat /. hands down 03:10:06 deltab: blargh :-) 03:10:06 in deisgn 03:10:09 err design 03:10:50 is it just me or does http://wiltgen.net/articles/dotnet/ say it's about XML web services and then completely ignore XML and web services. 03:11:22 I think I'll vote for bluishorange; Allison is quite well-designed 03:11:34 that just goes to show you how good MS is at confusing people 03:12:54 indeed. i heard someone at p2pcon say that MS was only pushing SOAP because they wanted to confuse other people into using something sucky, while they really used REST and blew everyone away. 03:13:29 hailstorm has settled the REST/RPC question: they're using REST-over-SOAP :-) 03:13:56 yeah, that was funny 03:16:57 i wonder if rillian would mind if i linked to http://snow.thaumas.net/~giles/SSRN_ID294828_code020114590.pdf 03:17:08 * sbp collects some more musical history 03:17:36 you must have a pretty big box for all of it 03:18:04 geez, people still use the word "cyberian"? 03:18:17 who? 03:18:43 it's in the title of that PDF you just mentioned 03:19:00 hmm, i didn't notice that. 03:19:07 i thought he called them virtual worlds 03:23:14 GabeW2 has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:25:03 wmf, have you gotten Zope's WebDAV to work with MacOS X? 03:25:22 nope 03:25:40 no one has ever explained to me how to mount a webdav share in OS X 03:26:14 click the desktop and hit Command-K 03:27:09 either I'm typing the wrong thing or it just doesn't work with Zope 03:27:35 yeah, that was my conclusion too, but I have vague memories of getting it to work with zope in 10.0 03:27:58 (of course I got my first-ever kernel panic when trying to save something onto the server...) 03:28:52 my only kernel panic was running Radio 7 under Classic 03:29:08 heh 03:29:38 I wish Mark would carbonize Tinderbox (neé Ceres) 03:30:36 I should contribute a blurb saying "Tinderbox is Radio UserLand developed by hypertext geeks." or something like that. 03:31:03 tinderbox? 03:31:20 It's Eastgate's weblogging tool 03:31:29 URL? 03:31:40 .google eastgate peekhole 03:31:41 eastgate peekhole: http://www.eastgate.com/Development 03:50:40 .google Traffic band members 03:50:41 Traffic band members: http://members.tripod.com/~Buffalo_Springfield 03:50:52 Hmm... 03:55:08 Winwood, of course... 03:55:29 ah: """The key elements were Steve Winwood's wailing, bluesy vocals, Jim Capaldi's gritty songwriting and drumming, and Chris Wood's sinuous flute and sax playing""" - http://www.warr.org/traffic.html 03:56:08 ooh, bigger line-up: """Lineup: Jim Capaldi (drums, percussion, some vocals); Dave Mason (guitar, vocals, some bass, sitar, etc.); Steve Winwood (lead vocals, keyboards, some guitar, bass); Chris Wood (flute, sax, some keyboards). Mason quit, 1969. Jim Gordon (drums), Rick Grech (bass) and Rebop Kwaku Baah (percussion) added, 1971. Gordon and Grech replaced by Roger Hawkins (drums) and David Hood (bass), 1972. Rebop and Hawkins dropped, Hood replaced by Rosco Gee, 03:56:11 """ - ibid. 03:56:39 Dave Mason - I'm sure I've heard of him 04:19:05 sjbrown: why are you wrapping data in a tuple? 04:19:42 .heh, wrong channel 04:19:43 oops 04:23:08 Hmm, this error makes no sense to me: 04:23:11 self.finger = Finger(self) 04:23:11 TypeError: iteration over non-sequence 04:23:36 what is Finger? 04:23:53 it's a subclass of list 04:24:02 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 04:26:48 any ideas, deltab? 04:27:48 Hello 04:28:16 Hi 04:28:42 hmm, i guess it doesn't like me overriding init like that. i guess i'll go back to UserList 04:29:31 aha! 04:29:54 it's the new-style class __init__ rules i guess 04:31:34 that's pretty annoying. 04:33:17 aha! I mispelled __init__ 04:49:45 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 04:49:55 hey rillian 04:50:03 AaronSw: the LoginWindow plugin works great 04:50:09 cool 04:50:21 btw, do you mind if i point to your PDF mirror of the Everquest study? 05:02:10 go right ahead 05:02:16 er, that's not a permanent url 05:02:29 but if it's not for archive purposes, go ahead 05:09:18 wmf has quit ("if this is your first night") 05:24:00 BenSw is now known as BenSw|bed 05:36:26 skotadi (spencer@io.wwmg.com) has joined #swhack 05:37:03 hello 05:37:18 Hey. 05:37:50 and what brings you here? 05:38:40 I was looking for an IRC channel for Advogato, and found a reference to this channel. So I came. 05:38:51 neat. 05:38:53 Not that I think this is one. Heh. 05:39:07 Heh. it'd be sort of interesting. 05:39:16 raph visited this channel once. ;) 05:43:42 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 05:43:45 hello 05:43:48 hey there 05:44:01 sorry about that, i have a habit to wander offtopic 05:44:09 sbp, he fell for the old "off-topic channel" trick :) 05:44:16 heh, it seems to be IRC nature 05:44:58 so my Dad was rather into computers, and he got me an original Mac when i was real young. 05:45:07 (btw, original Mac was introduced today in 1984) 05:45:23 how old are you? 05:45:27 so i've been playing with them ever since. he had a very early net connection, back before Mosaic. 05:45:33 wow 05:45:33 i'm 15 05:45:50 (about pre-mosaic, not your age) 05:45:54 heh 05:46:00 you're the first intelligent person I've met that's younger than me 05:46:09 well, that sounded mean 05:46:10 heh, heh! 05:46:32 not towards you, but towards everyone else i know 05:46:51 yeah 05:46:56 yeah, i have these vague memories of seeing big ASCII-art ads for Mosaic. 05:47:14 We had an m68k mac in like 94 maybe, we had a IIgs but I wasn't allowed to touch it 05:47:45 first computer I could expiriment with was my own, it was a PC, got that in 98, and then got into Linux in june of 99, so i guess I'm a relative newcomer 05:48:09 interesting. 05:48:17 I think the important thing is understanding enough about what's going on to understand how much it sucks and you could make it better 05:48:33 plex looks much more interesting now that I think of it as pure information, not as a filesharing program 05:48:38 yeah, i find that sort of stuff really useful. 05:48:56 like i red Ted Nelson's "Future of Information" that really blew me away. I realized how everything we use sucks so much. 05:49:12 I've been reading book by Tog about interface 05:49:16 and books by Raskin 05:49:50 yeah, they're good, but still small compared to folks like Nelson and Gelernter, IMO 05:49:51 my reading list is so massive it's sickening, I need to start setting aside 2 hours a day to just read, no news-browsing or anything 05:50:07 * jeremiah wants to remind you that he has no idea who those two people are 05:50:25 Ted Nelson coined the term "Hypertext". 05:50:28 wow 05:50:40 yeah, he's quite a guy. 05:50:54 he's got some great quotes 05:51:02 huh, just looked it up with dict 05:51:15 "Trying to fix HTML is like grafting arms and legs onto hamburger." 05:51:29 so is he the guy that worked at PARC? 05:51:52 No... perhaps you're thinking of Douglas Englebart... 05:52:10 well I remember reading about a demo in the 60's of a webbrowser-ish thing at parc 05:52:10 he invented hypertext and the mouse and things like that. 05:52:14 yeah 05:52:24 Yeah. 05:52:33 I wish my grandmother was still around 05:52:42 she worked at Bell in the 60's and 70's 05:52:45 Wow. 05:52:47 I was extremely lucky -- at one of the RDF conferences I went to both Englebart and Nelson were there. 05:52:48 I'd like to pick her mind 05:53:05 what'd she do at Bell? 05:53:18 fortran for switches apparently 05:53:28 but I have a fantasy she knew k&r 05:53:41 heh 05:54:37 how did you get involved with the w3c? 05:54:43 http://blogspace.com/pictures/photo-view?photo_id=4282 05:54:59 heh, yeah 05:55:06 hey deltab 05:55:06 so deltab, are you the deltab that inspired jeremiah? 05:55:23 yeah, remember some little kid asking you a long time ago on #slashdot about a program that found prime numbers 05:56:07 yeah 05:56:10 that was me 05:56:29 how i got involved with the W3C: http://logicerror.com/myStory 05:56:37 I suppose there aren't too many people floating around with the handle deltab 05:56:53 that's why I chose it 05:56:57 yeah 05:57:04 I chose jeremiah because I'm not creative 05:57:22 i always wondered where it came from. is it from del + tab keys? 05:57:34 DeltaB? 05:57:39 i chose after a friend's license plate ;) 05:57:50 I like both of those 05:58:07 i've always been of the opinion that rates of acquisition were more 05:58:07 important that total knowledge 05:58:23 makes sense 05:58:40 interesting story, aaron 05:58:41 esp. with knowledge constant evolving and changing. 05:59:22 i had interesting discussion with someone that worked at sun about the economics of information from a learning pov. 05:59:32 speaking of aggregators, i was thinking of writing a nice GUI one on top of mozilla, but I think it can wait 05:59:42 * hazmat is way sleep deprived... 05:59:54 I'd need expirience working on a project with other people 05:59:58 jeremiah: did you understand why you don't have to search for factors past the square root? 06:00:11 deltab: the sieve of eratosthenes? 06:00:13 lol 06:00:21 that too 06:00:57 but no, I don't know if I understood that concept before I wrote the program 06:01:16 most of my better understanding of math was a result of my programing, not the other way around 06:01:25 and that was one of my first programs 06:01:33 good 06:02:17 programming's a good way to get to understand things 06:02:21 yeah 06:02:26 skotadi has left #swhack 06:02:48 * jeremiah needs to download that tarball and read the code to this thing 06:02:48 deltab could also mean DELete from TABle: http://adamo.web.cern.ch/Adamo/refmanual/Section-4-2-4.html 06:02:52 not only do you have to understand them in a fuzzy human way, you also have to understand it enough to teach it to a computer 06:03:02 deltab: that's a great concept 06:03:19 jeremiah, the code is pretty sucky right now 06:03:33 AaronSw: all code is sucky 06:03:39 true. 06:03:54 i'm working on PyChord tonight. 06:04:22 I'm looking back at this project that I worked on for a company, that went from being like a simple simple content management system to a huge one, and I just read a great column by joel about 'refactoring code', but I just don't want to, i have this desire to scrap it, I mean the code is just icky 06:04:38 I need to overcome that desire 06:04:47 i disagree with joel on that. 06:05:02 I think what most people don't understand is that Joel is crazy. 06:05:24 hmm 06:05:38 well, the thing is I think joel has some great ideas, but I don't find any of his code useful 06:05:46 which is probably one of the same things about me 06:05:52 Heh. 06:06:01 I don't like how he completely dissed all the open standards with citydesk 06:06:15 Joel is like a mini-Philip in many respects. 06:06:23 who's Philip? 06:06:32 Philip Greenspun 06:06:35 .google philip greenspun 06:06:36 philip greenspun: http://philip.greenspun.com 06:07:06 the original name for Fog Creek was even PaxDigita. 06:07:10 hmm 06:07:24 greenspun looks like that guy from friends 06:07:42 * jeremiah promises that's the stupidest comment he'll make all night 06:08:08 I remember somethign about PaxDigita 06:08:09 whoa, philip is learning to fly 06:08:25 so could I equate greenspun to metcalfe? 06:08:35 (since a lot of people concider metcalfe full of shit too) 06:08:50 greenspun's a great guy 06:08:55 oh 06:09:06 heh 06:09:15 I think I read your comments about joel on the wrong way 06:10:14 my point about joel can be summed up by this diagram: 06:10:14 joel 06:10:41 that didn't help really 06:10:47 heh 06:10:54 unless you're saying he has great ideas that don't work 06:11:05 rillian has quit ("cheers all") 06:11:12 his points are true, but if you follow them you get rotten code 06:11:18 ah 06:12:00 like, there are just times you have to throw out code. 06:12:16 I think his ideas deserve more research, but that's probably because I don't like the idea that there are 3 great development environments I could use for a project: Cocoa, Win32 (well, never used it) and Swing, but I still can't write one program and have it run on all three 06:12:32 I forgot how that concept relates to joel's ideas 06:12:45 yeah, i agree about throwing out code 06:13:04 oh, so I like his idea about not always reinventing everything, but I don't think anyone will ever follow it 06:13:27 Win32 is a great development environment? 06:13:36 well, by great i mean rich 06:13:42 as in: it can do a lot of things for me 06:13:51 that I don't have to do by myself 06:13:52 ah 06:14:07 so I have these three environments, that all want to do everything for me 06:14:20 but I can't take advantage of any of them and still keep my code sufficiently cross platform 06:14:24 qt 06:14:28 yeah, qt is nice 06:14:34 win32 has lots of idiosyncracies. 06:14:34 I've been messing around with it 06:14:51 has anyone seen a java pki project based on jboss? 06:15:04 i know i saw but i can't find it at the moment. 06:15:16 I ment to look into jboss 06:15:16 but didn't 06:16:52 ah.. it was a ca http://ejbca.sourceforge.net/ 06:23:42 i think mozilla is another good xp app dev platform/framework. the only problem being its footprint imo. 06:24:39 yeah, the program I wanted to build was a news aggregator, so it seemed mozilla would be the wisest choice 06:26:03 i hear mozilla's persistent storage is in RDF ;-) 06:26:07 it is 06:26:14 rdf is used throughout moz 06:26:40 mozilla is really some awesome software 06:26:41 bookmarks, mail, registries of chrome, etc.. 06:26:42 The non-existant global RDF conspiracy will snare jeremiah one way or another. 06:26:54 I'm happy to hear they're going to offer native widjets 06:27:01 s/widjets/widgets 06:27:14 what? they've always built ontop of native toolkits?? 06:27:33 not really... they had these funk XP widgets 06:27:34 well, they have but it hasn't been controllable that way 06:27:41 like if I set a gtk theme 06:27:47 it won't affect mozilla, even though it uses gtk widgets 06:28:15 but the new "classic" theme in 0.9.8 is supposed to be native widgets, which is of course surprising if it happens because this build (a nightly) isn't showing that at all 06:28:48 isn't that more because its distributing its own gfx libraries? 06:29:25 yes, which is a great idea 06:29:47 it seems really nice on linux, it annoys you when you use a mac and you realize how much it clashes with the whole macintosh feel 06:29:54 its the only way to get past version hell on linux 06:30:20 * jeremiah thinks we're on different pages 06:30:53 probably... i'm drifting into incoherence. sorry. i think i'm going to head into that big lurk mode in the sky now. 06:43:16 I think I actuall have people that read my weblog 06:43:27 it's creepy 06:43:38 heh 06:43:48 I got 78 hits today without any signifigant linkage 06:44:02 which means people must be using bookmarks 06:44:05 or something 06:44:14 no, that was just me and dave's radio checking every hour 06:44:21 ohh 06:44:21 ;-) 06:44:28 nah... 06:44:36 * jeremiah has no clue 06:44:38 78 / 24 means 3 people read your site 06:44:41 ;-) 06:44:47 * AaronSw wanders off to DeMorganize the enterprise for a bit 06:44:48 I don't think rss.xml triggers the counter 06:44:58 actually, it doesn't, because that was from my nedstat counter 06:44:59 ah-hah 06:46:09 I loved that RDF explanation, btw 06:54:29 which one? 06:55:16 subject, predicate, object 06:55:20 it makes sense now 06:55:23 ah 06:55:43 yeah, it's hard to know which explanation makes the best sense in advance... 06:56:02 well, I thought they were just three random words at first 06:56:17 which just confused me 06:58:29 ah 06:58:42 another way to explain it is to say they're typed links 06:58:54 but that got the fellow thinking i was describing the data-type of the link 06:59:14 yeah 12:07:02 tansaku2 (~sam@n146-073.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:13:54 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:24:38 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 13:20:19 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:03:02 Jim Hendler: "I even have a pending patent on the worlds fastest and most 14:03:02 scalable inference algorithms for inheritance, which is what led me 14:03:02 into SHOE and then the Sem Web" 14:03:09 I think he should be banned for holding patents. 14:31:34 wow, they opened up the network here. 16:00:42 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:48:27 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:48:49 tansaku (~sam@n145-058.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:46:31 heh, heh: probably... i'm drifting into incoherence. sorry. i think i'm going to head into that big lurk mode in the sky now. 17:46:43 * sbp catches up on an awful lot of conversation 17:47:14 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:50:00 hello 18:53:25 hi 18:54:58 we had another interesting telecon today. 18:55:21 i think we need a Connolly-Stickler Showdown. 18:55:40 [cue music] Daaaaatatypes SMACKDOWN! 18:55:52 ;) 18:55:56 heh, heh 21:17:27 * sbp listens to some Fairport Convention 21:18:55 * sbp tries to find the Georgia Turner version of "House Of The Risin' Sun", to little avail 22:49:59 BenSw|bed is now known as BenSw 22:57:41 Hi Ben 23:01:19 hello 23:01:57 Hi there, Jeremiah 23:02:12 I'm glad you found out about the great grades scam :-) 23:02:35 huh? 23:04:24 """I just figured out, that with my rough 83-85 average in History, I can go down as low as a 65 and as high as a 115.5 without moving my grade from a B. Time to stop worrying.""" - http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/23.html#a215 23:04:31 aaah, yes 23:04:42 yeah that was fun 23:05:16 Aaron found out too, and went around advising people not to bother with their exams 23:05:27 Heh, heh. He's a character 23:05:48 So, what do you think about the Plex? Any reservations? Do you think you'll be able to help with the coding/PR/testing? 23:05:56 I think I can help with everything 23:06:02 my reservation is you don't explan it very well on the site 23:06:08 and... I don't think it'll be good for email specifically 23:06:13 I like the idea of using it to locate services 23:06:24 you know the website everything2.com? it's a lot like that, I think 23:06:29 yeah, that is a bit of a problem. Aaron and I drafted up an FAQ, but I'm not sure how helpful it is 23:06:30 same with logicerror, they seem similar 23:06:49 yeah, I know about that 23:06:59 but the problem with those sites is that they're centralized 23:07:04 exactly 23:07:08 in fact, I don't really think that they're a good analogy at all 23:07:19 well, I think plex covers a lot more bases 23:07:25 they're not really universal file spaces, just collaborative online projects 23:07:29 yeah 23:07:33 yeah, of course... 23:07:43 I don't know how well hosting actual files inside the plex will work out 23:07:50 I like the idea of using it for URIs though 23:07:56 I'm mainly looking forward to it because hopefully it will relieve some of the burden of publishing 23:08:07 yeah, that's my favioure bit too 23:08:24 like all P2P apps., security is the biggest thing to overcome 23:08:29 like: it's hard to decide how much structure you need 23:08:41 because you want enough structure so everything isn't crazy and disorganized 23:08:46 but you don't want to limit what people can do with it 23:08:52 DoS attacks, flooding the network, etc. Mojo Natoin seems to have the idea right, and I'm sure Aaron will incorporate some of those methodologies 23:09:02 yep. Principle of least power 23:09:14 .google "principle of least power" 23:09:14 "principle of least power": http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Principles.html 23:09:19 I don't think attacks are going to be that hard 23:09:24 to prevent, that is 23:09:27 .time cst 23:09:27 Jan. 25, 2002 5:11 pm US/Central 23:09:36 here it's hash-time! 5:12 23:09:41 yeah. Freenet et al. seem fairly resilient 23:09:48 heh, heh 23:10:13 well, I was thinking that google seems pretty resilient too to people getting false authority 23:10:25 Unless I create a bunch of websites that link to each other 23:10:33 it's hard to rise on google if I'm not a real quality source 23:11:41 all my friends (non-nerds) have been asking me for news aggregators recently 23:11:44 I've always wondered how Google copes with Gerald's never-ending spam catching device 23:11:46 Hmm... let's find out 23:11:50 .google "list of email addesses" site:impressive.net 23:11:51 no results found. 23:11:54 crud 23:12:14 news aggregation and dynamic content is on the rise... but I think, like many things, it's a bit of a fad 23:12:30 .google spam email site:impressive.net 23:12:30 spam email site:impressive.net: http://impressive.net/people/gerald/2000/12/spam-filtering.html 23:13:15 that ain't it. Damnit 23:13:18 well, I like the idea of people creating as much content as they take in, but most people create crap content, the only reason radio has such a great community is because it has a community of actually smart people right now 23:13:27 google follows the rules 23:13:38 Disallow: /people/gerald/misc/email-addresses 23:13:54 who is gerald? 23:14:08 ah, cheers deltab 23:14:19 Gerald Oskoboiny: http://impressive.net/people/gerald/ 23:14:57 radio's news aggregator has gotten so nice recently 23:15:07 who's the person in here that was working on the radio replacement? 23:15:24 maybe it was tav 23:15:32 since the release of R8, you mean? 23:15:44 maybe 23:15:49 aaron mentioned it 23:15:56 tav was working on f something 23:16:00 erm... 23:16:09 notefi 23:16:20 oh 23:16:23 "n something" :-) 23:16:33 I had a little blogger-api python program a while ago 23:16:44 is it on the Web? 23:16:52 stopped working on it though, I think I realized it was futile to try to replace programs that are already around 23:16:55 it might be, one sec 23:17:13 data is on a drive that isn't plugged in now 23:17:17 I might have uploaded some stuff 23:17:26 yeah, why re-invent the wheel (from a guy who recently wrote a Web browser, text editor...) 23:17:57 damn, none of it is uploaded 23:18:08 it's no big deal 23:18:10 anyways: I thought about it and decided the software I really wanted wasn't another CMS 23:18:26 I hate content management systems, or at least i hate the idea of having to use one in the first place 23:18:39 are you going to stick with R8 when the trial period expires? 23:18:44 I paid for it 23:18:55 ah. Fair enough :-) 23:18:57 I was on the beta list, and I communicate back and forth with dave enough 23:19:12 and the company actually has respect for me and their users, so I just bought it 23:19:17 I think I'm just going to move BIOH - and Aaron is looking around for some other software 23:19:27 bioh? 23:19:29 never heard of it 23:19:30 yep. There's nothing wrong with buying software if you like it 23:19:41 Bring It On Home 23:19:44 You linked to it :-) 23:19:44 oh 23:20:00 I thought you said "I am going to move to BIOH" and I thought that ment bioh was aprogram... whoops 23:20:22 No. You're just reading what you want to read 23:20:26 yeah 23:20:30 my brain has a habit of doing that 23:20:31 Homer: Thanks, I'd love an omlette right about now 23:20:44 yeah. I know someone who does that a lot 23:22:13 J, what kind of P2P software do you normally use for getting arbitrary content (i.e. MP3s) 23:22:19 Limewire recently 23:22:25 .google Limewire 23:22:26 Limewire: http://www.limewire.com 23:22:27 it jumped from sucking to being really really good 23:22:33 I saw that you wrote a piece on that 23:22:57 actually, it was Aaron's critique of your use of the word "pirate" that prompted me to it 23:23:09 it's even weirder when in real life I try to tell someone a story, and they say "I read about it on your website" 23:23:23 heh, heh 23:23:34 * sbp avoids talking to people, so doesn't have that problem :-) 23:23:51 I have a really big social life for a geek 23:23:56 oh, I remember checking Limewire out, now. I wonder why I didn't get it? 23:24:10 it's one of the best java programs I've ever usd 23:24:11 Do you have a geek code block? 23:24:12 used* 23:24:19 what do you mean? 23:24:22 aha! 23:24:23 question solved 23:24:33 .google "Geek code" 23:24:34 "Geek code": http://www.geekcode.com 23:24:43 * sbp doesn't like Java 23:24:45 .google geek code block 23:24:45 geek code block: http://www.geekcode.com 23:24:57 hmm 23:25:41 I don't have a block, BTW 23:26:01 Larry Wall's code is funny: he's one of the only people I know that can use the code for "I am Larry Wall" 23:26:30 ohhh 23:26:38 I have a blogger code 23:26:40 no geek code 23:27:16 pff, that's no good :-) 23:27:46 We should have one of those for Swhack 23:27:47 but we're too lazy/cool, I guess 23:28:21 i'm going off-line now. It'd be very cool (hint) (hint) if EGTP was ready for me to integrate with PyChord when I come back tomorrow night. 23:28:25 bye 23:28:35 I find the interface to your weblog to be very confusing 23:28:35 iirc, lemme load it up 23:28:35 seeya aaron 23:28:56 confusing: hmm. probably not the only one. 23:28:59 c'ya 23:33:22 SeanP (~sean@m806-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:33:42 Aargh: Aaron, dircproxy's doing that odd-assed thing again 23:33:44 it keeps throwing me off as soon as I've logged in 23:36:27 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m806-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 23:36:38 SeanP is now known as sbp 23:37:03 there - that'll teach it 23:37:35 SeanP (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 23:38:19 hello? 23:38:21 argh 23:38:23 damn thing 23:38:42 cool, it works... but on a different nickname 23:41:25 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 23:41:31 SeanP is now known as sbp 2002-01-26.txt0100644000014300000000000010633107424640633011677 0ustar nobodyroot00:05:29 tansaku (~sam@h131-009.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:05:43 * sbp waves 00:35:34 Hooray! 00:43:21 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:35:36 hacksearc (~rainbow@N889P011.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #swhack 01:35:48 * jeremiah is away: I'm busy 01:35:50 * jeremiah is back (gone 00:00:02) 01:35:52 woops 01:36:05 hi 01:36:17 hello hacksearc 01:36:34 wow someone not asleep ;-) 01:36:40 yeah 01:36:51 well, I just got back from a ~5 mile run 01:36:56 wow 01:37:03 where do you come from? 01:37:14 williamsburg:virginia:us 01:37:28 i am from europe/austria 01:37:34 ooh 01:37:41 I think my website gets hits from austria 01:37:45 which is moderately exciting 01:37:50 really? 01:37:52 yeah 01:38:01 what language do they speak in austria? german? 01:38:07 tell me - are you a hacking expert? yes, german 01:38:14 I do not hack 01:38:19 I could, and I can, but I don't 01:38:25 thats a pitty 01:38:54 even if someone wants you to do it for testing? 01:38:56 do you frequent this irc network? or did you just join the channel because of the name 01:39:18 just for the name, its the first time i am here 01:39:58 this channel is not really about hacking 01:40:24 i see - can you tell me a channel where i can find some hacking-cracks? 01:40:30 I don't know of any 01:40:34 I'm sorry 01:40:41 no prob 01:40:50 jeremiah has quit ("Client Exiting") 01:40:50 not on this network - we use our skills for constructive ends 01:41:17 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 01:41:28 woops 01:41:38 what happens to you? 01:41:52 I clicked the wrong button 01:42:12 as long as you are not in the pentagon ... ;-) 01:42:19 dont worry 01:42:41 well I do work for the DOD 01:42:46 so... I guess that counts 01:42:54 whats DOD ? 01:43:04 United States Department of Defense 01:43:14 ahh i see 01:43:15 N.B. this channel is publically archived to the Web, in real time 01:43:26 logs are at http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/ 01:44:00 * jeremiah was kidding about the DOD thing... but hacking is not what this channel is about 01:44:04 "anything you say can and will be used against you in a Google search" 01:44:08 heh 01:44:14 hacking most certainly *is* what this channel is about 01:44:20 cracking, OTOH, is not 01:44:28 well, hacking, but not the hacking hacksearc is talking about 01:44:53 hey i dont want to make you nervous 01:45:07 nervous? 01:45:21 dont know the word in english 01:45:52 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:46:06 and i have thought in america you have the right to speak free 01:46:38 who says that we're American? Well, J is... 01:46:41 we do, but we also have self restraint in america 01:48:00 i see 01:48:16 @ sbp - where do yo come from? 01:49:04 the UK 01:50:11 ok, wish you all a nice evening/night, bye 01:50:56 hacksearc has left #swhack 01:52:08 well, s/he didn't last long :-) 01:55:40 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:57:00 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 01:57:06 wb 01:57:09 thanks 01:57:12 np 01:57:21 decided to restart xchat... 01:57:24 that and I kiled it by accident 01:57:59 what OS are you on? 01:58:11 Debian Linux 01:58:33 ah. So is Vorpal, I gather 01:58:59 Was that a choice over Red Hat, or something forced upon you? 01:59:05 * sbp has WindowsMe, BTW 01:59:33 I perfer debian 01:59:41 I can update the whole system software with 2 commands 01:59:42 it's nice 02:00:27 * sbp should get a *nix box 02:00:42 they're nice when you know how to use them 02:01:09 so I gather 02:01:31 I've got CygWin, of course, but it's not the same 02:01:58 yeah 02:02:06 Im hungry, and nasty because of my runnnig, so i think I'm gonna go shower now 02:02:24 CygBot (~sbp@m121-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:02:28 O.K. 02:02:32 c'ya 02:02:59 bye 02:04:01 * sbp considers moving BIOH to infomesh.net early, and starting to update it again 02:04:21 OTOH, why should I bother? 02:05:10 hmm 02:05:14 blogging is addictive though 02:05:36 true 02:05:59 $ lynx http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/ -source -dump > bioh`u timenow`.html 02:06:10 > [end] 02:06:26 $ wc bioh*.html 02:06:29 > 592 3853 41883 bioh20020126-020640.html 02:06:29 > [end] 02:06:45 hmm 02:07:04 * sbp wonders where to put it on infomesh.net 02:08:52 * jeremiah is away: concert 02:08:55 Seems that "Bring It On Home" was originally by Sonny Boy Williamson II. The Led Zeppelin version is most famous though, of course 02:34:51 @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1777000/1777972.stm 02:34:56 A: BBC News | SCI/TECH | Broadband goes down the drain from sbp 02:35:02 A:|Broadband Goes Down The Drain 02:35:03 titled item A 02:36:25 A::In order to cause less disruption in England's capital, the telcos are resorting to putting the broadband cables in the sewers 02:36:26 commented item A 02:37:28 ooh, good news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1779000/1779942.stm 02:54:03 good review for The Thunderthief: http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/classicpop/reviews/rev_jpj.shtml 04:25:31 CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:30:18 CygBot (~sbp@m321-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:51:02 * jeremiah is back (gone 02:42:10) 04:51:04 hello 04:51:29 Hi there, J 04:52:01 hey sbp 04:52:10 isn't it like... 4am in england? 04:52:13 5am, that is 04:52:17 .time 04:52:17 2002/01/26 04:53:56.0695 Universal 04:52:26 it seems so, yes 04:53:14 wowza 04:54:10 I like to listen to music and reply to email at this time of day (night) :-) 04:54:15 oh 04:54:22 my friend chris has been up for 38 hours straight 04:54:23 he's crazy 04:54:40 tav is a bit like that, too. He seems to go for months without sleep 04:55:27 weird 04:55:34 I don't think I could code if I hadn't slept recently 04:56:32 heh, heh. Yeah, my coding tends to lose its edge late at night, so I listen to music and answer email. Didn't I just tell you all that? :-) 04:57:23 yeah 04:58:29 Actually, I stay up till about this time almost every night, so I guess it's just "normal" for me, now 04:58:34 it seems that a lot of other UKish people on OPN do, too 04:59:12 oh 04:59:18 when do you have to be awake again? 05:01:12 before The Simpsons :-) 05:01:18 oh 05:01:21 do you have day job? 05:01:24 how old are you, btw 05:01:38 I'm an undergraduate, but due to my agoraphobia, I generally work from home 05:01:45 19 05:01:47 you? 05:02:33 heh, I think I'm getting used to my age. People would ask, and I'd say "17... no, wait a minute! fuck, I'm 19 now!" 05:03:59 it's silly - it keeps changing. A year goes by, and the number increases by one - so by the time I get used to it, it's changed 05:04:16 it's the same with years. I'm still typing "1995" on things 05:04:48 sorry, didn't mean to ignore ya there 05:05:04 I am 16 05:05:07 11th grade 05:06:03 ugh, school 05:06:11 yeah, school is lame 05:06:15 but I like the socialization 05:06:18 extremely lame 05:06:20 and I think it holds an important part in my life 05:06:33 well, I found that I could socialize just as easily outside of school 05:06:47 hmm, i think you blogged that somewhere 05:06:53 but I did meet a lot of great friends at school, I admit... 05:06:58 yep, I did indeed. On BIOH 05:07:17 http://radio.weblogs.com/0101542/2002/01/19.html#a30 05:07:46 """The leap from school to college was immense; like leaving some opressive totalitarian regime for the luxury of a liberal democracy.""" 05:08:19 that's really what it felt like. There was still a lot of work to be done, and some stuff was really tough... but the mindset was just so different. And it was a creative period 05:08:31 and now I'm somewhere in the middle 05:08:51 yeah 05:09:00 I think next year I'm going to take one high school class 05:09:02 and a bunch of college ones 05:11:01 well, at least you don't seem to be wating your time too much. You seem to be a bit like Aaron in that you can do several hundred things at once, and still have time for relaxing on IRC 05:11:20 I guess 05:11:24 I think I do much less than aaron 05:11:28 I just give the impression that I do a lot 05:11:46 then again, there have been times when I could do the same. Writing songs, learning to drive, going to parties, watching T.V., doing exams, creating Websites... 05:11:59 impressions are good 05:12:21 yeah 05:12:27 right now I'm not coding anything important 05:12:32 except for the work i wanna do on the plex 05:12:36 which i should talk to tav about 05:12:37 I think 05:14:28 yeah 05:14:46 The Plex is rather important. I'm rather disappointed that I haven't been able to contribute much, if anything 05:15:11 I mean, I did some coding, but it doesn't really do anything all that great. Just an NTriples parser and Gofyniad, a query engine thingy 05:15:32 hmm 05:15:41 I want to write clients for everything for mozilla 05:15:44 And I tried to do some documentation, but I'm not really sure what to write about. Aaron doesn't write much on the Plex, so it's difficult for me 05:15:46 I wanna write a mozilla plex client 05:15:54 that's a good idea 05:15:54 yeah 05:16:02 who started the project? 05:16:17 I want Plex products to be mainstream... if you have to download tons of crap to get it to work, then the Plex as a whole isn't 05:16:19 Aaron did 05:16:26 I have a little history bit, somewhere 05:16:28 ok 05:16:43 I think the main problem is it takes a big brain leap to figure out what he f**ck you guys are talking about 05:16:50 s/he/the 05:17:07 maybe i'll write some docs, now that I'm newly converted and sort of understand what you're talkin about 05:17:52 oddly enough, I think that the principles are rather simple. The P2P stuff can get a bit involving, but everything else is just piss. I mean, it'll all stuff that's been done before, but with a different mindset, and on a much different scale 05:18:21 The Web is a universal information space, and HTTP is pretty good, but it's just too server specific. The P2P side of the Plex will balance out the load so that everyone can contribute 05:18:58 So it'll become easiwer to publish, and there'll also be a sort of ambient feel to the information... in other words, all of the protocols for the Internet can be converted to soem kind of RDF based "format" 05:19:06 at least, I think that's what Aaron was planning 05:19:10 hmm 05:19:17 wow, that still doesn't make a lott sense to me 05:19:20 I mean... I understand it 05:19:31 but I don't see why we need a new system to do this 05:19:47 so, for example, you'd give out some drops of IRC channel text, and spread them into the Plex. You'd drop it into the Plex pond, and it would be propogated over the entire network. Then, it's just a matter of filtering it out and picking it up 05:19:59 new system: because thre isn't anything which does it at all properly today 05:20:26 I mean, the closest thing is Freenet. Freenet! It sucks big time, because although the principle was pretty good, the enigineering is, IMO, rather poor 05:20:31 now does that data propogate depending on demand for it, or does it propogate because the system wants it to? 05:21:19 yeah freenet seems lame 05:21:23 I have yet to get it to give me a single file 05:21:26 probably because of my firewall 05:21:27 hopefully it will propogate because the system wants it to. But there's a fine line, and I think we acknowledge that - I often ask what happens to the data: is it persistent? I think the answer is that yes, the system tries to preserve all of the data that is added to it 05:21:58 of course, someone can issue a command to delete the data that they add (under the aegis of some grand cryptography scheme), but the system might not get the command 05:22:37 firewall: I hope stuff like that doesn't put people off from installing the software. In other words, I hope that when we write the programs, we make sure that it's foolproof on all systems 05:22:45 port quickly, port well 05:23:29 yeah 05:23:37 I think the database aspects of the software are neat 05:23:53 need to think up a lot of good uses before we start letting people smuggle files through it 05:24:04 good being "legitimate" 05:24:12 Yep. I wondered if I could kinda cross pollinate the software with some OS' file-system... 05:24:19 yeah, i was thinking about that earlier today 05:24:23 good uses: there'll be plenty :-) 05:24:24 someone said "I want google on my desktop" 05:24:29 and I thought about it 05:24:38 and today while running, which is when i do most hardcore thinking 05:24:47 I realized that an application could set the RDF stuff for a file 05:24:52 and then it could be dumped into the filesystem 05:25:06 and you could create different searches 05:25:10 like say you open two "browser windows" 05:25:21 and in one of them you search for files that are related to "top secret project" 05:25:29 and then in another you open up all the images you have 05:25:47 and you can drag some images into the search for "top secret project", and their parameters are adjusted so they fit that query 05:25:55 so that the next time you search for "top secret project" they show up 05:26:07 CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:26:14 anyways, sorta hard to explain, but I was thinking of writing a plex filesystem for Linux 05:26:17 at some point 05:26:32 that's a good idea. Sort of like having hot-zones for querys. A good GUI interface to a database... 05:26:58 yes 05:26:59 Yeah, well, BeOS has had a database-like filesystem for some time. Perhaps you can build on that 05:27:09 well, it wasn't opensourced 05:27:14 but there is the freebeos project 05:27:15 ah. Crud 05:27:19 err open-beos 05:27:23 .google open-BeOS 05:27:24 open-BeOS: http://open-beos.sourceforge.net 05:27:36 yeah, I used to be a member of it 05:27:46 problem is they want to exactly copy beos 05:27:49 not add onto it 05:27:55 like... they're copying everything, including the bugs 05:28:16 ugh! 05:28:20 when does tav get online? 05:28:34 tav: he probably is online. He's rather elusive 05:29:00 yo, tav, wake-up! 05:29:28 aaron said I had to become an "espian" before I got on the cvs system 05:29:33 and then I guess I should talk to deltab 05:30:17 yeah. Even I don't have CVS access. Then again, I don't particularly need it at this point 05:30:23 here's some Plex history for you: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Sep/0067 05:30:33 and http://web.archive.org/web/20011027233319/http://plexdev.org/ 05:30:51 there's some more crap in the #swhack logs. Actually the project has been rather underground 05:31:07 I guess that there has been lots of string pulling by Aaron 05:31:11 in fact, I know that for sure 05:31:34 hmm 05:31:38 I'm impresed by that w3 url 05:31:43 he has lots of these little conversations with people, and he won't tell you about it (unless you ask - he's open), but then sometime later he'll bring something up and you'll think "where'd that come from" 05:32:09 yeah. I got that email in my inbox and thought, "argh, Aaron's off on another rant again" :-) 05:33:00 But it was fun. I was also there when he started to try to name the damn thing. tav still isn't particularly set on "Plex", but I think it'll stick unless they change it soon 05:33:16 I tried to suggest "infomesh"... 05:33:38 I like to ferret about with Web history, and I' 05:33:42 argh 05:34:00 I'm trying to be a good Plex historian in the here and now of it, just in case it becomes significant 05:34:46 and although I can't help but think that it won't, I still stirve to record every scrap of information. #swhack is good for that. I fear the #plex channel logs, because I don't think they'll last. I can't download them, they're not in plain text format, and they suck 05:34:52 sorry, just got yelled at 05:35:01 bummer 05:35:39 yeah 05:35:53 because this girl had sex with this guy, and told me that he had a small dick,a nd somehow it got back to him, but I didn't tell him she said it 05:36:02 'cause I heard from like 8 different sources that his weener was tiny 05:36:03 oh well 05:36:14 ? 05:36:24 long long story 05:36:35 you see, sometimes when people have sex 05:36:36 8 different sources? That's quite hillarious 05:36:37 it goes well 05:36:38 but their time 05:36:42 it went really,r eally bad 05:36:48 and archived for the whole world, now... 05:36:53 yeah 05:36:54 hehe 05:36:55 heh, heh, heh 05:40:45 well, I guess I'd better fold 05:40:50 it's been nice chatting with you 05:41:03 c'ya 05:41:08 yeah 05:41:09 goodnight 05:41:11 or morning 06:15:50 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:15:50 deus_x has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:15:50 AaronSw has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:15:51 tav` has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:15:51 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:16:00 netsplit wooooo! 06:20:38 deus_x (~deusx@bgp993973bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 06:20:40 tav` (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 06:20:40 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 06:20:42 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 06:20:43 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 06:20:47 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 06:27:40 tav (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 07:13:49 * jeremiah is away: I'm busy 07:15:51 hazmat has quit (Remote closed the connection) 07:29:32 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:24:46 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 14:05:38 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:07:16 BenSw has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:10:07 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 16:50:40 * jeremiah is back (gone 02:40:32) 16:50:42 hmm 17:42:01 * sbp waves 17:42:57 * sbp should do a little work on EARL 18:12:06 hey sbp 18:16:07 Hi there 18:24:09 sbp: how would you answer "whose idea was the plex?" ;p 18:24:51 I'd say "it was the idea of Aaron Swartz, with a little help from his friends". Why? 18:25:23 really? 18:25:28 of course 18:25:49 i wonder how aaron would answer that 18:26:02 Hmm... good question 18:26:32 it was the idea of tav, with a little help from his friends 18:26:34 heh, heh 18:26:42 and you can blame deltab, or someone 18:26:57 "not me, him!" 18:28:50 logster, grep plex |mail tav@espians.com 18:29:26 I'm logging. Mailed 238 results to tav@espians.com 18:29:26 logster, grep mesh |mail tav@espians.com 18:30:01 I'm logging. Mailed 217 results to tav@espians.com 18:30:01 I was the first one to mention the word "plex" in the context of the Plex as we know it now on this channel 18:30:01 I don't dispute that you invented the term 18:30:09 but really, I don't give a crap who inveted it. If anyone starts quibbling about bollocks like that... well... 18:30:54 such projects are collaborative things, involving many people. You can never credit everyone, because the influences are always so wide ranging 18:31:57 ah, here we go:- 18:31:58 first mention of it on #swhack: 2001-10-25 01:38:20 Got Plex? 18:32:22 hmz, where did the long talk we have take place? 18:32:29 the name having been settled upon by yourself and Aaron the day before 18:32:42 it was in private between you and Aaron, AFAIK 18:33:01 we had a small discussion of it on #plex before that, on the morning of the day before 18:33:02 no, the one where i rambled on about the mesh/plex, etc 18:33:14 I have the logs 18:33:23 was it here or rdfig ? 18:33:43 s/#plex/#esp/ 18:33:45 or somewhere 18:33:50 I could find out, I have the logs 18:34:21 it was in #esp 18:34:53 [[[ 18:34:54 Session Start: Wed Oct 24 03:28:27 2001 18:34:54 *** Now talking in #esp 18:34:54 ]]] 18:35:06 no, much earlier sept 10th 18:35:39 no. in that discussion in October, we had not yet settled on the name "Plex". Quite clearly - from the discussion 18:35:55 gah, not talking about damned names 18:36:11 i'm talking about the damned idea/project 18:36:16 oh, you mean the original plexnames discussion? that was on #rdfig 18:36:57 side note: i don't mean to be a credit whore here. but, there are certain ideas that i am proud of, notably the gift market, the mesh layer, etc, and would like them to be rightfully attributed 18:37:36 sure 18:38:36 like I say, I don't really care - I'm sure you got the ideas from many other people, and you won't credit them. But, for FWIW, you can always point people to http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-09-11.txt 18:39:35 -- 18:39:35 04:03:11 by me throwing in signed packages into the "mesh" 18:39:36 04:03:21 me = site owner 18:39:36 04:03:21 mesh? 18:39:37 04:03:40 mesh is a place which picks up all this random data you throw about ;p 18:39:37 04:03:46 have you written all this down somewhere? 18:39:38 -- 18:40:08 Hmm... when's Aaron's email from? 18:40:19 ah:- 18:40:19 Message-Id: <200109281746.f8SHkev16256@theinfo.org> 18:40:19 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:13:40 -0500 18:40:19 From: Aaron Swartz 18:40:19 To: Sandro Hawke 18:40:19 Cc: www-archive@w3.org, Tav 18:40:21 Subject: Global Decentralized Triple Store "Mesh" 18:40:32 well, I do apologize 18:41:23 but still, if it wasn't for the work of the Internet, the Web, and P2P before you both... 18:41:34 and I don't think that those people should be forgotten 18:41:48 no need to, aaron's been doing most of the coding so far, and he's got the ball rolling much earlier than i had originally intended to 18:42:30 yeah. like I say, though, it's a lot of things. He couldn't have pushed it out so early if it wasn't for the support and cooperation of Espra 18:42:45 or the "espian community in general", perhaps 18:44:03 I remember the morning of the 11th (I mean, before the rather inafmous events later in the day). It was a frenzied typing session. I was rather tired, but the idea was so intreguing 18:44:34 actually, i didn't realise it was the 11th until aaron and i met 18:45:19 side effects of not sleeping much - days just blend into each other 18:45:26 it was a pretty unforgettable day - although I suppose other things took precedence 18:45:37 yeah 18:47:19 If anyone asks, I'll say that deltab invented it. It's more plausible 18:47:26 :-) 18:47:54 heh 18:48:00 actually, he probably did 18:49:05 oh, interesting: 05:02:23 initially, there are three layers, content / communication / commerce 18:49:10 i realised yesterday that deltab's my mentor of sorts 18:49:27 Aaron's been reading the logs, or something. He mistakenly used the three "c"s as his "world plan" the other day 18:49:33 s/of sorts/ 18:49:34 mentor? seems reasonable 18:50:01 ah, i rambled on when we met up 18:50:10 we talked about the three c's then 18:50:42 aha 18:51:32 Heh, when Aaron visited me, we didn't speak. Well, we probably said all of about 10 words to each other 18:53:14 so much anal milking eh? ;p 18:53:52 he told me he wasn't into it when we met up 18:53:59 * tav gets jealous 19:01:11 hmm 19:01:49 * jeremiah turned on timestamps, irc makes more sense now 19:02:24 gah! see! 19:02:25 -- 19:02:26 Here is how the plex began: " 19:02:27 -- 19:03:21 hmm 19:03:27 * jeremiah is not a plex historian 19:03:37 I can change that to "here's something about the plex from a long time ago, I think" 19:03:39 if you'd like 19:05:19 http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-09-11.txt <-------- first public discussion of the plex 19:05:55 hmz. i'm being one of those arrogant self-centered bitches now, aren't i 19:05:56 ? 19:06:11 I dunno 19:06:33 I want to start contributing code, or at least become a cvs member, aaron said I have to be an 'espian' before I reach that stage... 19:06:41 and you seem to hold the keys to being an espian 19:06:44 ah cool 19:07:28 * tav does the magic incantation and certifies jeremiah as an espian 19:07:36 cool 19:07:49 so... I still have no idea what an espian is, except being a member of some computer network 19:08:48 we're a bunch of people on a mission to take over and change the world ;p 19:09:01 oh 19:10:26 legally, we work for "espian technologies ltd" 19:11:03 oh 19:11:04 which is owned by esp worldwide ltd, which in turn is owned 100% by the ecclesia 19:11:17 * jeremiah has a feeling tav is talkin gibbberish 19:11:17 the ecclesia is the collective formed by all full espians 19:11:51 what? you don't have a glossolaliac convertor? 19:12:02 no 19:12:10 I do have these lithium crystals though 19:12:13 will they help? 19:12:51 perfect! you can use them to make a avi shields 19:12:58 s/a // 19:13:27 now, there are three tiers of espians - open, fuzzy, full 19:13:32 hmm 19:14:11 and what tier you belong to depends on how you are certified 19:14:15 ok 19:14:20 familiar with the advogato trust metric system? 19:14:25 sort of 19:14:45 I mean, I know of trust metrics and such 19:14:47 and rankings 19:14:49 like on everything2 19:15:13 well, this is similar, except that, although we have a seed based trust metric, you can demote those closer to the seed than you are 19:15:37 oh 19:15:55 so what's the interface to all of this? 19:16:03 and how many espians are there? 19:16:35 22 19:16:45 ok 19:16:48 re: interface, there's the fabled xnet 19:17:09 oh crap, I have band practice in 10 minutes 19:17:10 in theory 19:17:20 ooh, what do you play? 19:17:28 guitar 19:17:34 nice 19:17:40 not very well though 19:17:43 sbp too 19:17:47 plays the guitar i mean 19:18:14 I don't practice it nearly enough 19:19:05 so anyways, I hear I have to be an espian in order to use the CVS system 19:19:38 i believe you'd love being an espian 19:19:44 cool 19:20:09 that reminds me, i need to sign up hazmat as well 19:20:27 do you reall stay awake for days at a time? 19:20:30 because I have a friend who does too 19:20:44 I'm thinking of switching to a 36 hours awake 12 asleep schedule 19:21:14 what's your primary email address? jeremiah@kaxis.cx? 19:21:26 yes.. maybe use jeremiah@kingprimate.com though 19:21:30 I think I'll have kingprimate for longer 19:21:36 yes, i stay awake for many days 19:22:13 i do meditate though 19:22:23 that's how i "recharge the battery" so to speak 19:22:43 oh 19:22:51 I gotta go shower and stuff 19:22:53 talk to you later 19:22:55 laters 19:22:56 after band practice 19:22:59 * jeremiah is away: band practice 20:01:47 heh, heh: what? you don't have a glossolaliac convertor? 20:04:01 my connection must have cut out; here's what's missing:- 20:04:02 [[[ 20:04:02 Heh, when Aaron visited me, we didn't speak. Well, we probably said all of about 10 words to each other 20:04:03 "Hi" "How was the trip?" "fine, thanks" "cool" 20:04:03 "how's PyBlogspace coming along" "I've not really had time for it" "oh" 20:04:03 and that was about it 20:04:04 the coolest bit of the meeting is when he sat down at my computer and instantly started tapping things into #swhack :-) 20:04:07 Gotta run 20:04:09 thanks for setting a bit of my patchy grasp of history straight 20:04:11 ]]] 20:11:04 heh, heh:- 20:11:06 ooh, what do you play? 20:11:06 guitar 20:11:08 [...] 20:11:12 not very well though 20:11:12 sbp too 20:11:12 plays the guitar i mean 21:11:18 ooh, I could modularize the algorithm for querying EARL. That'd be quite neat 21:36:58 Hmm... earl:suite = earl:id . 21:37:18 that makes things quite a bit easier 21:37:59 it's a bit like a scalar - you might have a test ID that is comprised of lots of other test IDs, or they might be singular. They might have some RDF structure to them that you can retrieve from the Web and parse, or they may not 21:38:41 example: an alt test, WCAG 1.0, all priority 1 checkpoints 21:39:53 [ earl:id :AltTest ] . [ earl:suite :WCAG10 ] . [ earl:testCriteria [ earl:suite :WCAG10; earl:level :P1 ] ] . # is traditional 21:41:36 in fact, earl:suite in EARL 0.95 means "the document that describes a number of test points" 21:41:57 TestCriteria is some subset of that 22:13:53 * sbp just watched Britney Spears on Frank Skinner 22:14:03 pretty damn funny 22:14:46 HE did a duet with her - "I Got You Babe". I think she does sing a bit flat, but not enough that they'd have to tweak it on the fly (I don't think any of her fans would notice) 22:15:31 of course, that probably doesn't stop them from running it through a few banks of effects machines... 22:21:33 anyway, back to EARL 22:21:52 I think that it's acceptable to use things straight up for TestCases, with no indirection 22:22:03 for example, in one of the 0.95 example files, we have:- 22:22:12 a :TestCase; 22:22:13 :id ; 22:22:39 why not just: a :TestCase . # ? 22:23:08 it makes a good identifier for the TestCase 22:24:49 well, perhaps the distinction between id and suite is well-founded. After all, a suite is a bag of test IDs 22:25:08 and I doubt that experiments such as http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001May/0086 would be possible without it 22:26:48 exclusions are quite tricky. I'm not sure that they're processable with CWM at the moment 22:28:09 e.g. 22:28:09 [ :testCriteria [ 22:28:09 :suite ; 22:28:09 :level wcag:wc-priority-1; 22:28:09 :exclusion [ 22:28:09 :id wcag:tech-text-equivalent ] ] 22:28:11 ] . 22:28:22 Hmm... 22:28:26 perhaps it is possible 22:29:46 assuming you filter ?x :exclusion [ :id ?y ] . to ?x :excludesId ?y . 22:32:05 { ?p earl:testCriteria 22:32:05 [ earl:suite ; 22:32:05 earl:level ?q; 22:32:05 :excludesID ?r ] . 22:32:05 ?y wcagearl:priority ?s; log:notEqualTo ?r } log:implies 22:32:05 { ?p earl:id ?s } . 22:32:18 a bit tricky, though 22:33:23 oops, I screwed that up 22:34:01 { ?p earl:testCriteria 22:34:01 [ earl:suite ; 22:34:01 earl:level ?q; 22:34:01 :excludesID ?r ] . 22:34:01 ?s wcagearl:priority ?q; log:notEqualTo ?r } log:implies 22:34:02 { ?p earl:id ?s } . 22:34:32 so first, you have to resolve suites on exclusions 22:34:45 then filter down the IDs to excludesID 22:34:57 then, filter down subsequent suites into IDs 22:35:18 and really, it's all just shorthand 22:35:44 I suppose as long as I can demonstrate some running code working under CWM, I can leave it in 22:36:03 after all, the TestCase doesn't change semantics by using this shorthand, and it probably makes it easier to read 22:36:15 I'm a bit cautious about leaving in the exclusions, though 22:42:35 ah, so a Suite is really just a collection of IDs that can be enumerated elsewhere 22:42:47 earl:Suite = earl:TestCase . 22:42:55 [in 0.95] 22:43:34 ooh, so... 22:43:47 nope 22:44:16 I was thinking that we can just subt. one for t'other in the WCAG merging example, but in fact we provide a level too 22:44:40 so earl:suite constructs the main TestCase out of other bits, and the same for testCriteria 22:46:19 * sbp prepares a complex test case 22:46:28 heh, and it's a TestCase :-) 22:46:45 so I can evaluate EARL as a language using EARL... 22:51:11 * sbp adds earl:priority 23:46:20 Hmm... I can get it to work when there's only one exclusion, but any more borks it 23:54:03 tomc (~lambda@modem-1025.porcupine.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 2002-01-27.txt0100644000014300000000000007034307425110176011676 0ustar nobodyroot00:03:24 * sbp replies to Norm Walsh on RDF IG 00:03:26 Hi Tom 00:03:33 I hope it went through... 00:03:46 hi 00:05:04 yep: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0168 00:07:32 heeelo 00:10:03 heh, as if: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1783000/1783714.stm 00:10:05 Hi there, Aaron 00:10:27 ooh, it's Sunday already, so I'm breaking it 00:10:54 anyway, I think I'm exempt 00:12:44 I think I do much less than aaron 00:12:44 I just give the impression that I do a lot 00:12:47 I feel the same way. Heh. 00:14:08 Notice how they don't say why they think being in the "real world" is valuable (not that i'm saying it isn't). People just seem to assume it's obvious. 00:14:20 And I'm hearing more and more about how the online world is far more appealing. 00:14:58 it's especially useful if you have a disability which means it's difficult for you to get into the "outside world" :-) 00:16:29 tav gave me a little Plex history lesson, earlier 00:16:48 or if you're frightened of people. 00:16:53 (for example) 00:17:13 that would be a disability preventing you from getting into the outside world 00:17:28 like say you open two "browser windows" 00:17:28 and in one of them you search for files that are related to "top secret project" 00:17:28 As Gelernter says, in the future you won't put things in folders, the folders will reach out and grab them. 00:17:29 yes, that's my excuse :D 00:17:34 :-) 00:19:27 That was such an awesome day: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Sep/0067 00:24:32 ugh, unless I give :excludesId a cardinality restriction of 1 (i.e. make it a UniqueProperty), it's not going to work 00:26:16 I'm not going to say who I think invented the Plex, but I'd bet that if I'm in an interview or something it'll end up looking like I'm taking all the credit for it and people will get very upset with me and work will be delayed for weeks. 00:27:07 I'll just say deltab, and bugger it 00:27:09 :-) 00:27:15 Yeah, I saw. 00:27:39 I was thinking one day: deltab is so quiet that if he asked me to do some outrageous thing for him, I'd probably do it. 00:27:48 * sbp waves to any potential future Plex historians 00:27:49 Sorta dangerous. I hope he doesn't do that. ;-) 00:27:53 heh, heh 00:29:33 so, sbp, jeremiah, etc. feel free to ask questions about the Plex. 00:29:42 gimme a sec. 00:29:47 I was sorta disappointed to hear you thought I wasn't keeping y'all up to date. 00:30:19 sbp has changed the topic to: Plex: invented by deltab, powered by Aaron Swartz's bubble gum, and patent pending 00:30:26 lol 00:30:35 :-) 00:30:45 [Powered by Bubble-Gum] 00:31:27 well, perhaps you are keeping us up-to-date. I don't know what, if anything, you're keeping back, otherwise you wouldn't be keeping it back. But I presume that you must have had conversation with people that they want you to keep confidential 00:32:02 And I don't fault you for it, of course. What can ya do? And it's probably better to be having those discussions rather than documenting every little bit 00:32:15 Hmm, I don't think so... I just talked to my Mom about it, but that's all I can think of. 00:32:21 although I must admit that I feel like I havent got the foggiest idea what's going on w.r.t. the Plex 00:32:25 It's tav doing the secret meetings 00:32:27 heh, heh 00:32:52 what's up with tav's secrecy? I don't even know his name 00:33:07 is he a convict on the run or something? Wanted in 7 countries? 00:33:32 of course, he has a right to privacy. But it's just fairly unusual 00:33:37 Well, he's wanted from the British Library system. 00:33:45 isn't everyone? 00:33:46 Apparently he's racked up a large fine. 00:34:11 I dunno. Here I just change names or pretend to not have any money. 00:34:27 heh, heh 00:34:45 "but I checked it back in! honest!" 00:36:24 I suppose the main thing that I'm wondering is how the dang thing is going to work. I know that there's the content layer, and the metadata layer, and then you have the query applications... but past that, I dunno. I presume that's what all of the discussions are about at the moment 00:36:51 the thing is, the Plex is almost a bit too simple. There's not really much to talk about at the moment, is there? Just waiting for the code to form, and for us to run it 00:37:08 I think I see most of it at this point, and I think I can do a decent job of explaining it. But when I try to explain it I just suck. 00:37:49 I suppose we'll be talking a bit about the extensibility - you said that you only want people to install it once, and then have it self-update itself through itself. That's a bit spooky, but it makes sense. A bit like downloading browser extensions using the browser, except automatically 00:37:53 * tomc had to pay a £10 library fine the other day *cringe* 00:38:20 while it's on topic :) 00:38:37 Oh, and I don't think I get the iedentification thing. Will we be identifying files by their SHAs, or what? 00:38:43 *cringe* indeed :-) 00:39:22 yes! 00:39:40 I lost a book in November 00:40:27 OK, the Plex stores triples, right? 00:40:36 sorry, talk about plex :) 00:40:38 So one of the triples can be :content "value" . 00:41:38 so you can refer to things by or plexname 00:41:49 or plexname-for-friend:friend'sPlexname 00:42:32 except that's a generalization. :content triples don't necessarily have to be believed, and they'll have to account for conneg etc. The only thing that can be checked is SHAness 00:42:50 and I still don't really get plexnames 00:42:50 yes 00:42:59 obviously if you want a secure reference, you need to use SHAs 00:43:04 (or something similar0 00:43:12 the plexnames can only be applied locally, going by the SHAs 00:43:27 well, I guess they're quite useful, then. Just aliases for SHAs 00:43:28 Zooko and I were discussing identification with ESL-style things. 00:43:40 no, they can do much more than identify SHAs 00:44:00 they won't identify SHAs, they'll be aliases for them 00:44:08 Cool, they're playing a country version of "Strawberry Fields" on PHC. 00:44:13 heh, heh 00:44:56 they can cover changing things too -- SHAs won't let you change a doc 00:45:11 fair enough 00:47:32 so, will every Plex client have its own UUID? 00:48:03 why would that be? 00:48:37 so you can stamp things that you send into the plex, if you want. Plus, you'll have your own namespace. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult to "update" a resource 00:48:59 no, they'll just use dig sigs 00:50:15 wonderful 00:50:33 [mild sarcasm - crypto in Python isn't easy, as I found out] 00:50:51 heh 00:50:56 then again, neither is generating a UUID 00:51:09 the XML digital signatures code is in Python 00:51:18 is it? neat 01:09:43 cool, zooko says he's almost done 01:10:14 almost done for what? 01:10:50 I was going to use his transport library (EGTP) for pychord 01:23:58 lol: http://www.somethingawful.com/spam/icq/spacerobot/index.htm 01:26:21 heh! 01:26:24 I like "It was the worst Christmas ever." 01:26:53 I can't believe that wasn't fabricated in some way 01:27:11 """ 01:27:11 Corn_Boy - be very careful, he is scary, does [the robot] have an off button? 01:27:11 Lowtax - No, I hard encoded the transistor gigaflop switch to the analogue Proteus nord rack 2 Quasimidi ray diode. He should turn himself off. 01:27:11 That's odd, the lights turned off. 01:27:11 Corn_Boy - be very careful, he is scary, does he have an off button? 01:27:12 """ 01:27:19 What wasn't fabricated? 01:27:39 thc (~lambda@modem-1712.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 01:27:51 lol:- 01:27:52 [[[ 01:27:53 Lowtax - Venus power = radiation = the Devil! My robots will turn this and make our space program work this time! My pusher robot will shove the space shuttle, and my shover robot will push the astronauts out of harm's way. Do you understand? 01:27:53 Corn_Boy - not really, you must be alot smarter than me 01:27:53 ]]] 01:29:05 well, I'd have been like "yeah... right, bye then" 01:29:29 there are some strange people on IRC 01:29:42 err ICQ 01:30:33 both, I think 01:30:47 [cough] 01:30:56 heh, heh 01:31:07 we should do that to people who enter #swhack 01:31:21 HI FREND, HOW ARe U? R U BORKED TOdAY? 01:31:55 Then they'd be convinced this was a cracker channel. 01:32:08 although I do hope that telling them that the channel is logged will be a better deterrent 01:32:15 heh 01:32:51 within a week we'll be the top hit for "jeremiah small dick" 01:33:41 because of: 01:33:42 because this girl had sex with this guy, and told me that he had a small dick,a nd somehow it got back to him, but I didn't tell him she said it 01:34:05 lol! 01:34:09 did you see that guy who came in asking for cracking hints? it's wasn't too long ago - it's all in the logs 01:34:11 yeah, I remember that 01:34:15 it was bizzare - we were just chatting about the Plex, and then he comes out with that. I was rather amused 01:34:22 yeah, i saw that. 01:34:28 heh, heh 01:34:30 well I do work for the DOD 01:34:42 yep, thassit 01:35:08 another welcome addition to the channel 01:35:44 I do love cultural diversity :o) 01:35:47 yeah, i figure with him and tav here i'll get the cultural background equivalent of high school. 01:35:51 yeah, I like it when the hacker d00dz show up. As long as they don't stay too long, it's quite comical 01:35:57 heh, heh 01:36:02 poor you 01:41:56 lol! 01:41:57 [[[ 01:41:58 Lowtax - Oh, here it is. Okay, here are the instructions: you have to type that command I sent you before and send it. Then, within 5 seconds of it sending, you have to hit ALT-F4. That sends some SYSEX message to the computer here and it will reboot. 01:41:59 [...] 01:42:09 (StaceY went offline) 01:42:14 ]]] - http://www.somethingawful.com/spam/icq/netappliance/index-04.htm 01:42:37 that's an absolutely wonderful transcript 01:44:53 tomc has quit (Connection timed out) 01:45:54 thc is now known as tomc 01:47:42 hehe 01:49:05 lol! 01:52:44 cruelty to stupid people isn't really excusable though :o) 01:55:29 s/stupid/knowledge deprived/ 01:56:01 no... 01:56:08 they were spammers 01:56:16 exactly 01:57:13 she tried to spam him, and he wreaked his Vengeance 01:57:18 Oh. :o) fine fine I think. 01:57:51 * sbp is currently reading through http://www.somethingawful.com/spam/icq/anointed/ 01:57:59 that one's a little bit sad, actually 01:58:31 As am I, I'll read it. 02:03:07 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 02:03:16 that guy is pretty good with his slang 02:03:18 Hi Wes 02:03:22 howdy 02:04:08 hey wes 02:09:52 what's up in the swUniverse? 02:09:54 Chris: "I should be worried about my health, but trivial things like that no longer concern me." 02:10:01 - http://radio.weblogs.com/0102312/2002/01/25.html#a5 02:10:10 you can feel the love 02:10:56 hmm... i can't think of much that is up 02:11:06 I got PyChord working... gonna integrate it with EGTP soon. 02:11:12 so I've heard 02:11:40 oh. from who? 02:11:50 zooko 02:12:04 I'm on the OmniUpgradeTreadmill 02:12:12 oh? 02:12:24 more sneakypeeking 02:12:25 ? 02:12:34 I was using omniweb 4.1sp24 and it kept bugging me to upgrade to sp28 02:12:48 so I did and then it immediately told me to upgrade to sp32 02:12:54 heh heh 02:13:01 Dave: "there will come a day when free hosting at UserLand is a thing of the past." 02:13:13 he's been saying that forever 02:13:20 yeah, i've noticed. 02:13:27 so I'm not sure what the point of the intermediate upgrade was 02:13:39 maybe they upgraded the upgrade notification? 02:13:42 and these new leakypeeks have no release notes 02:14:02 If they had releasenotes it wouldn't be very sneaky/leaky, now would it? 02:14:13 they did switch to some kind of mirror site (which is slower than the regular site) 02:15:01 I just hope userland doesn't try to switch everyone to Radio 02:15:51 heh, that'd be interesting. 02:16:15 If Dave wants to eliminate free hosting, why did he just start hosting 4 zillion more sites. 02:16:34 the radio sites are only free for a month 02:16:44 oh? what happens afterward? 02:16:56 good question 02:17:17 i hope he lets me redirect 02:17:30 but what are the chances of that? 02:17:35 get in your feature request now 02:17:41 i wonder if I can get Radio to upstream a .htaccess file somehow 02:18:34 there's a way to change extensions on files 02:18:55 it'd probably be easiest to just hack the code inside. 02:19:09 or use a python xmlStorageSystem client 02:19:15 so where is that Dave quote from? 02:19:22 scripting.com earlier today 02:19:31 I don't see it now 02:19:36 He must have deleted it. 02:19:41 It was in my Radio news. 02:19:57 now it's archived for eternity in #swhack! Mwahahaha! 02:20:23 sorry... got a bit carried away, there. Please, do continue 02:24:41 I wonder if Morbus supports this: http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2002/1/25/214359/663 02:29:08 argh, I hate it when Terminal quits. 02:30:00 Hmm, isntead of calling stuff Foo.app I think I'll call them iFoo. iTerminal, iPreview, iMail. 02:30:15 wmf is now known as iWMF 02:30:43 heh heh. 02:30:51 (note: I am not available for free download from Apple's Web site) 02:30:54 AaronSw is now known as iHackThePlanet 02:30:55 lol 02:31:00 heh 02:31:04 Available for an exta $20 charge 02:31:04 iWMF is now known as wmf 02:31:33 Would you like to continue: [No | Yes, after paying $20 | Maybe not] 02:31:37 iAaron: more funky looking than the iLamp, and three times brighter 02:31:47 iHackThePlanet is now known as AaronSw 02:32:01 Don't hack computers. 02:32:13 No haquer los computadoras 02:32:17 Ý™€ß¬¬¶€¥™¨¨¨šß 02:32:29 - sticker on the iHackThePlanet 02:32:51 LOL! 02:33:03 heh 02:33:06 "Hacking is a social problem" 02:33:12 and that ALCU story is quite funny, too 02:33:27 Steve: "We didn't feel hacking-protection was necessary in Mac OS X." 02:33:55 heh, he 02:34:13 and hey, append another "h" if you like 02:34:37 heh, i should send http://www.apple.com/ihacktheplanet/ as an HTP referer. 02:34:52 i don't want to miss out on the fun 02:34:59 * wmf grumbles 02:35:40 Heh, new iCon in 10.2: http://www.apple.com/errors/images/hotnews01162002.gif 02:38:32 I wonder what this guy was after: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=britany+hack+page&btnG=Google+Search 02:50:42 DoidM (~besirc@host217-35-155-157.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 02:50:59 whoa, it's doid! 02:51:05 What's the M for? 02:51:13 Um, I forgot 02:51:23 Could've been masterbating 02:51:45 err. Won't repeat 02:51:56 hm? 02:52:03 This channel is logged live to the Web, BTW. ;-) 02:52:07 I know 02:52:20 so sorry for the misspelling ;) 02:52:36 So how was your meeting with, um, TavA? 02:52:48 Very interesting 02:53:11 I'm not sure what was covered that isn't public knowlegdearound here 02:53:28 But he spoke a bot about the Omni framework 02:53:44 heh 02:54:01 As I understand it, an application layer over the mesh 02:54:05 not the OmniFramework. 02:54:11 Yes 02:54:11 totally different, wm 02:54:31 Hmm. OmniFramework is something else? 02:54:37 tav's been quiet on omni 02:54:44 all I ask is credit for the name 02:54:53 OmniFramework is something by the Omni Group, makers of fine software for OS X 02:54:58 wmf, oh the name was your fault? 02:55:08 tav never mentioned that 02:55:11 Oh, didn't know that (not having a Mac yet) 02:55:12 and maybe a guaranteed pension from the Tav World Order :-) 02:55:36 Would be nice 02:56:02 bbiab, time to make a Borders book. 02:56:14 err trip 02:56:21 there was a brainstorming session (on #infoanarchy IIRC) and I suggested "Omni" as the name 02:56:34 Ah. 02:56:35 your Borders must be open late 02:56:39 I'm worried about the perpetual confusion with the other omni 02:56:52 hm, 2 minutes... 02:57:04 ah, it's open until 11 on saturdays 02:57:22 i believe, as wmf(?) pointed out, no-one outside the mac community knows about omni 02:57:24 awesome 02:57:36 Heya, tav 02:57:38 so, eventually everyone will be using Macs, right? 02:57:42 ;-) 02:57:44 I need to move to north austin so I'll be close to broders 02:57:45 Hehe 02:57:54 5 down, 95 to go 02:57:54 I'm going to love it, I know 02:58:17 Aaron: do you use command line a lot on your Mac? 02:58:20 I bett we'll have 6 by the end of the year 02:58:24 DoidM, yeah, quite a bit 02:58:25 'lo doid 02:58:36 Morning 02:58:46 heh, morning indeed 02:58:50 .time 02:58:50 2002/01/27 03:00:28.9049 Universal 02:58:51 .time 02:58:51 2002/01/27 03:00:29.7933 Universal 02:59:04 Xena is so cool 02:59:11 ok, bbl. talk about omni while i'm gone ;) 02:59:24 DoidM: have that write up for me? ;p 02:59:38 tav: you didn't even notice me dissing you on #infoAnarchy a few minutes ago 02:59:55 I've transferred some notes to pc, shall I cut 'n' paste or come up with something more meaningful? 02:59:58 oh? 03:00:13 The Omni framework is a modular application layer over the mesh (or 03:00:14 routing) layer of the Plex. This application layer is a set of high level 03:00:14 objects which provide,interfaces to the data in the Plex (mesh?). 03:00:24 gah 03:00:32 not to a public channel pls 03:00:35 Sorry 03:00:43 irc.espnow.com / #espians 03:00:49 Eek 03:01:05 DoidM: you're being sucked into the esp... 03:01:27 once you get past the inner event horizon, you're done for 03:01:43 I've been getting that feeling recently 03:01:46 sucked into the singularity! beware! 03:02:34 /join #espians 03:20:10 tomc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:25:51 sbp has quit (Excess Flood) 03:26:57 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 03:33:35 hazmat has left #swhack 03:49:45 back 03:49:56 wb 03:51:18 every time I upgrade omniweb, OS X thinks my default browser is IE 03:52:55 hmm 03:53:35 news.com is selling content 03:53:48 I guess having 6 ads per page wasn't enough 03:54:44 lol 03:54:52 I noticed the other day they own com.com 03:54:58 lame 03:56:10 so now you can surf news.com.com 03:58:11 I'm sure some folks will buy up "Britney Spears is Dead!" stories real fast. 04:11:47 hmm, not sure omni is such a good idea. 1) building application frameworks doesn't seem like ESP's core competency. 2) to do it decently you're going to need to rewrite the whole system of computing. 3) that's expensive, for limited gain. 04:13:00 ah, wisdom 04:15:43 Aaron: I agree to an extent. tav convinced me (and he is convincing) that that would be easier given the platform being adopted 04:15:56 what would be easier? 04:16:21 I can't for the life of me find a previous attempt I read about ages ago. Alphablox? 04:17:24 heh, the DJ on the radio is having the same problem I sometimes do. he's getting shocked every time he touches something metal 04:17:38 heh, that destroyed my touchpad for a while 04:17:45 had to start the humidifier running 04:18:30 I think my power jack on my pismo is going bad 04:18:48 I'm earthing everything! 04:19:14 What happened to me is I messed up the cord on my Yoyo 04:19:53 but i think the newer yoyos fixed that problem by reinforcing it 04:58:01 Aaron: Sorry, easier meaning easier than I thought it would be - I wasn't considering an alternative approach 05:01:43 hmm, anyone have a good explanation of FEC? 05:02:16 i read orasis' oreillynet interview 05:02:21 stop spying through xena you bitch 05:12:25 DoidM is now known as DoidT 05:18:28 * sbp waves 05:19:52 sbp: I read you swintro for about the third time 05:24:57 great. How did you find it? 05:25:01 is it starting to sink in a bit? :-) 05:25:52 slowly - anything that might be a potential solution to my reading problem is attractive ;) 05:27:01 reading problem? I dunno if it can solve reading problems, but it's good for insomnia 05:27:32 I guess I don't understand how RDF isn't hierarchical 05:29:18 well, class and property hierarchies are... but there are no real constraints anywhere - anything can link to anything else. I mean, there's no centralization - no one saying "you must use the term 'title' whenever you have a title for something" 05:29:32 and class hierarchies can be cyclic 05:30:10 imagine browsing through folder :a to folder :b to folder :c, and then finding folder :a there again 05:30:31 thanks 05:32:10 Hmm... really, the Web is based upon a hierarchial structure: people still think of /blargh/ components in URIs as being directories; but the difference is that you can link anything to anything else. RDF adds making the link typed, instead of just having the plain link 05:32:38 typed as what, just for example 05:33:46 I still think of components of URI's as directories 05:35:21 :Sean :likes :Swhack; :dislikes :School . # likes and dislikes are the types of the links. In hypertext, all you can do is put a bit of link text there... it's not particularly automated. So, RDF is geared up towards storing data. But there's a fuzzy line between data and documentation - so you get people screen scraping data out of documents, and so forth 05:36:06 so the "types" of the links are just the properties - the predicates in the triple. Always the thing in the middle (you've probably been through all that though, especially if you've read swintro 3 times!) 05:37:19 Aha. As a matter of historical interest, for how long have there been triples? 05:38:33 Um... in RDF, or just in general? They're only binary relationships - RDF is derived from a substantial amount of past work 05:39:15 I'm not too sure why DRF adopted that model, although I guess it's because anything can be expressed that way - although it is expensive for encoding >2-ary relationships 05:39:22 s/DRF/RDF/ 05:39:23 In RDF, I meant. The way my Tortoise pace logic is taking me, is that the property adds another dimension 05:50:06 * AaronSw and Ben play a bit of Ogres vs. Pixies 05:50:17 cf. http://www.zooko.com/ 05:50:51 * AaronSw wanders off 05:57:38 .time 05:57:39 2002/01/27 05:59:17.3263 Universal 05:58:24 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:58:32 DoidT is now known as Doid 05:58:46 Doid is now known as Doid-reading 06:00:43 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 06:08:48 heh, that Lowtax is rather funny 06:11:11 although WTF is it with him and his pusher bot? He has something going down, there, I reckon :-) 06:14:22 I guess I should probably disappear now. 06:19:09 Doid-reading is now known as DoidT 06:19:15 T? 06:19:22 Tortoise 06:19:27 btw, anyone want to chat about KnowNow somewhere? 06:20:05 i wouldn't mind... but i should probably go to sleep 06:20:22 Always good if you want to 06:20:33 Maybe tomorrow 06:20:39 ok 06:21:59 nite all 06:22:19 .time 06:22:19 2002/01/27 06:23:57.6039 Universal 06:22:30 g'nite 06:23:38 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 06:29:33 Gotta run 07:19:56 DoidT has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:29:21 heh 07:29:29 morning comes and they gotto sleep 10:52:23 Lion7 (~AZERTY@ALimoges-101-1-2-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack 10:52:42 hmm it's so KwEl talking by yourself erf=) 10:53:25 Lion7 has quit (Client Quit) 15:03:16 tomc (~lambda@modem-1162.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #swhack 15:48:57 heh, someone cracked the Free Software Magazine site. 15:49:04 they put up an article about VIM: http://www.rons.net.cn/english/FSM/vim 15:49:04 tomc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:48:35 2001-03-21 23:46:53-ish: first time I used as a nick 17:49:04 er... 23:46:49, to be exact 17:49:06 I've come to like sbp. I know I originally preferred SeanP. 17:49:16 yeah, everybody preferred it 17:49:28 edd and DanBri were also against the change 17:49:46 * sbp realises the time 17:49:50 sorry, gotta run 17:50:24 .time 17:50:25 2002/01/27 17:52:03.37834 Universal 17:52:33 * AaronSw goes thru and copiously comments source 17:53:00 I dunno how useful it will be to others but it really helped me understand things better. I also found a bug or two 18:05:33 new revision: 1.8; previous revision: 1.7 18:05:57 Ok, off to lunch and then a piano concert at orchestra hall 19:00:49 * sbp goes through the PyChord code comments 20:43:23 CygBot (~sbp@m425-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:43:36 $ wc tools/eep.py 20:43:42 > 144 630 5457 tools/eep.py 20:43:43 > [end] 20:43:50 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:44:15 ugh, it's much longer than the Plex RDF API already 20:45:55 for comparsion:- 20:45:56 $ lynx http://cvs.plexdev.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/plex/plex/plexrdf/rdfapi.py\?rev=1.6\&content-type=text/plain -source -dump | wc 20:45:57 109 439 3582 20:48:56 Eep has turned into bloatware! 20:51:26 then again, half of Eep is the RDF XML serializer... 21:25:11 * jeremiah is back (gone 26:02:13) 21:59:51 * sbp waves to Jeremiah 22:01:18 hey sbp 22:01:20 * jeremiah is away: dinner 22:04:58 * sbp splits the sink into another module, and brings eep.py down to 100 lines 22:10:09 * sbp listens to "Matty Groves", Fairport Convention 22:23:15 [Global Notice] Hi all. Quick reroute of some European leaf servers. Please bear with us. 22:23:22 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 22:24:15 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 23:35:59 * jeremiah is away: movie 23:37:21 * sbp didn't know he was back 23:37:30 I wasn't 23:37:30 hehe 23:37:33 now I am really gonna leave 23:37:34 and such 23:37:47 cool. c'ya :-) 23:37:58 have fun at the cinema 23:42:40 thanks 23:42:54 (this is one of those walk back and forth between doorway and computer things) 2002-01-28.txt0100644000014300000000000007437607425362602011714 0ustar nobodyroot00:56:54 * AaronSw comes back 00:57:17 * sbp waves 00:59:40 morbus has a weblog. morbus has a weblog. 01:00:15 where? where? 01:00:19 * AaronSw looks up sbp's IP 01:00:34 80.1.184.2 01:01:11 Error connecting to 80.1.184.2 on port 80: Connection refused 01:01:11 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 01:06:12 y'all were quiet while i was gone 01:06:51 wtf http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ 01:13:30 sbp has quit (Remote closed the connection) 01:13:49 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 01:15:01 lots of stuff like "GET /scripts/..%2f../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 01:15:17 hm? 01:20:37 Hugo: Homer: Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk! 01:25:37 heh: http://www.blogstickers.com/images_stickers/mindtheblog.gif 01:33:06 O.K., the server is up and running again on my port 80 01:33:53 The IP address for sbp is 80.1.185.91 01:34:00 man, I love that script 01:34:14 in mIRC: /ip /say The IP address for $me is $ip 01:35:03 heh 01:36:20 Hmm, tav better hurry up... only 14 days left on Radio. 01:36:59 heh 01:37:52 pff, you just wanted to see the "inavlid" screenshots? I've restored them 01:37:59 heh 01:38:04 and spying through xena... ugh :-) 01:38:17 i wasn't spying thru xena 01:38:32 oh? 01:38:45 why would I do that? 01:38:59 * sbp would 01:40:07 it's coming... December 21, 2012 01:40:14 ooh, ooh! 01:40:20 what's that, then? 01:40:25 the end of the world 01:40:29 you're becoming W3C director? 01:40:32 oh... same thing 01:40:36 lol 01:40:59 so, any reason why that date is so special? 01:41:33 I mean, why that day? Or is it just a wild guess? 01:41:47 it's all about the timewaves 01:41:49 and the mayas 01:41:53 awesome: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020127/80/cqzmx.html 01:42:05 see http://www.deoxy.org/omega.htm 01:42:12 .google "December 21, 2012" Mayas 01:42:12 "December 21, 2012" Mayas: http://www.ioon.net/mayaonics/Pages/summary.htm 01:42:40 """It is commonly said that the Mayan Calendar ends on December 21, 2012, and indeed from an archaeological point of view it is correct that the Mayan Long Count, the long term chronology used by the Maya, ends on this day. In light of the discovery that the Mayan calendar describes human history and the evolution of consciousness in the Cosmos it has however become apparent that this date is in error when it comes to pinpointing the day the cosmic creation cycles 01:43:05 it's just the end of the Mayan Calendar. 2001 calendars ran out last month, but the world didn't en 01:43:08 end 01:43:30 it's very different. they had big cermonies where they smashed things and stuff. 01:44:11 well, unless people go around smashing the world to bits... 01:44:53 would this have anything to do with Zep Tepi? 01:44:58 'Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy will be launching a morals program designed to teach high school students about "fundamental values and universal moral precepts." This in response to his observation that high school students did not feel a sense of outrage after September 11.' 01:44:58 - http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/14216 01:45:06 Zep Tepi? 01:45:31 heh: """unbeknownst to GM the band planned to give the money to anti-capitalist campaigners""" 01:45:34 yeah 01:46:04 'ZEP TEPI:   ancient Egyptian,  translated as "FIRST  TIME" or "FIRST TIMERS",  referring to a remote epoch prior to ancient Egypt and associated with Osiris, legendary bringer of civilization to the then primitive and canabalistic ancient Egyptians.    Revered as  a god of resurrection and rebirth.' 01:46:08 - http://fusionanomaly.net/zeptepi.html 01:46:40 well there you go 01:47:48 i figure the Internet took twenty years (70-90), the Web took ten (90-00) and the Plex will take five, etc. until 2012 when things will go really fast and we'll have the singularity 01:48:11 lol 01:48:37 singularity: I've heard some rediculous theories before, but I must say that that is one of the silliest 01:48:54 that's my 2c/p/e 01:49:28 per e? 01:49:35 ah 01:49:40 pounds and euros 01:49:50 cents/pence/euros 01:49:51 pounds/pence 01:50:19 euros aren't worth much. People will be wiping their butts with the notes in a few years time 01:51:11 ah, hyperinflation 01:52:01 heh, did you see that thing about the Euro notes being poisonous? 01:52:17 someone said that they only pose a danger if you eat like 500 of the things 01:52:43 heh, yeah 01:52:46 Jeremiah: "I left my house yesterday at 2:40 and said I would be back in about 2 hours. I came home 26 hours later. It feels good to be a teenager (again). My classes are over, and I'm abandoning dumb responsibilites that don't really exist." 02:00:18 * AaronSw wanders off to practice "Rhapsody in Blue" on the piano 02:01:06 heh: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_505672.html?menu=news.quirkies 02:01:17 how was the piano concert? 02:02:16 original: http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=1488&cid=4&cname=Business+Today 02:48:09 the concert was good 02:48:41 good 02:53:47 \topic It's Monday morning, and what have you done to change the world for the better? Nothing? You suck 03:06:44 * sbp asseses A-Prompt with ATR, outputting to EARL 03:10:54 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 03:14:01 Hello 03:14:06 Hi 03:14:51 Whats up? 03:15:00 just messing about with some EARL stuff 03:15:28 A-Prompt? ATR? 03:15:36 .google A-Prompt 03:15:37 A-Prompt: http://aprompt.snow.utoronto.ca 03:15:39 .google ATR 03:15:40 ATR: http://www.atr.co.jp 03:15:47 .google ATR accessibility 03:15:48 ATR accessibility: http://aprompt.snow.utoronto.ca/ATR/ATR.html 03:15:52 there 03:16:00 interesting 03:16:16 yep. Chris worked very hard on them 03:18:28 BenSwX has quit ("Warden: theres no Air in Space. Homer: But theres an Air and Space Museum") 03:28:17 Hooray! 03:28:41 * sbp manages to clear up some of the old ATR EARL using a simple filter 03:50:34 Aaron, how do I get n3tordf to *output* as N3, from N3 input? 03:53:13 * sbp tries "to" 03:54:12 it seems to work, but outputs NTriples. That'll do 03:55:19 hmm, it should work. 03:55:32 it does work: it gives NTriples 03:55:50 Mike Cohen: "Yes! I managed to put away my laundry without getting attacked or bitten! This makes it two in a row." 03:56:07 * AaronSw checks what Spamassassin has caught. wow 153 messages. 03:56:56 great 03:59:14 "Please contribute at least .00 to PetitionOnline.com, to help maintain this premiere free speech forum." 03:59:14 Well, that was easy. 03:59:26 heh, heh 03:59:34 * sbp does the same 04:03:33 * sbp mails his ATR EARL Update form off to www-archive 04:04:12 ta da: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/att-0136/01-ATRUpdate 04:04:25 Quick 'n' easy web publishing :-) 04:05:00 and just to make sure: http://web.archive.org/web/20020127200612/http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Jan/att-0136/01-ATRUpdate 04:05:32 You have to love that :-) 04:07:44 lol! http://www.microsoft.com&item%3Dq209354@hardware.no/nyheter/feb01/Q209354%20-%20HOWTO.htm 04:10:37 heh, heh 04:10:53 Somebody pointed me to that a while ago 04:11:37 hello everyone 04:11:38 * jeremiah is back (gone 04:35:40) 04:11:47 remind me from this point on 04:11:50 to spend more time in my house 04:11:56 oh? 04:11:58 I like this bit:- 04:12:00 [[[Q147875 HOWTO: Apply for employment with McDonalds 04:12:00 Q171146 HOWTO: Convert absolutely everything to XML 04:12:00 Q181290 HOWTO: Add a #, + or .Net to your old software to keep it cutting edge 04:12:00 ]]] 04:12:13 heh 04:12:15 my favorite is: 04:12:15 [10:27] i made a irc client!!!!!! 04:12:15 [10:27] VBg0d, c00l, i made a webbrowser!! 04:12:22 *cough* 04:12:30 yeah... I thought that too... 04:12:31 Q147875 HOWTO: Apply for employment with McDonalds 04:12:31 Q171146 HOWTO: Convert absolutely everything to XML 04:12:31 Q181290 HOWTO: Add a #, + or .Net to your old software to keep it cutting edge 04:12:34 oh, shit 04:13:00 CTRL-c, not CTRL-v! CTRL-c, damnit! 04:13:14 they shouldn't have put those shortcuts so close together 04:13:23 I think that was the point 04:13:27 since V has nothing to do with "paste" 04:13:44 I would have been happy with CTRL-b 04:14:22 too much of a stretch for me 04:14:27 WFM 04:14:45 in the traditional sense of "WFM", not the sbp-ized sense 04:15:03 I can stretch to CTRL-, 04:15:33 I like middle-click for pasting 04:15:35 [most sensible people would use the right CTRL button for that, but not me] 04:15:53 I don't think I ever use the right control button 04:15:55 at all 04:16:10 in fact 04:16:11 I'd like to see you CTRL-# 04:16:16 all those keys at the bottom 04:16:21 like that goddamn windows key 04:16:23 aren't used at all 04:16:27 and are pretty useless 04:16:33 * AaronSw notes that macs have no such key 04:16:47 yeah 04:16:47 yeah. The space-bar annoys me too 04:16:55 so why should you stay inside more, J? 04:17:01 my mac has control, alt, and apple keys 04:17:07 AaronSw: I dunno 04:17:14 mine has "option (alt)" 04:17:14 I got home, and checked aim 04:17:24 and all these girls had called 04:17:25 :) 04:17:31 aha ;) 04:18:53 take your computer with you. Build a watch that has AIM built into it 04:19:42 yeah 04:19:46 but these were phone calls 04:19:48 not aim 04:19:48 :) 04:19:52 I need a cell 04:21:58 to power the watch? :-) 04:22:04 oh, that's cell battery... 04:22:38 you need a personality simulator. 04:23:00 personality simulator? 04:23:19 yeah, to answer calls for you. 04:23:27 of course it'd probably screw everything up.. 04:24:30 I suppose being a Radio UserLand beta tester is just a chick magnet. 04:24:36 [phone rings] 04:24:44 SeanBot: [answers phone] Hello? 04:24:53 Female caller: Hi! Is that you Sean? 04:24:59 * jeremiah is writing up the story of the night 04:25:02 SeanBot: Yeah, The Simpsons are cool! 04:25:06 no women involved tonight 04:25:16 Female caller: Ah, it is you. Are you going to take me out this evening? 04:25:25 SeanBot: I'm watching The Simpsons 04:25:34 http://www.pbase.com/image/374463 < ex girlfriend 04:25:37 Female caller: But you said you'd take me out! 04:26:00 oh, and she left a thing on my im messager 04:26:01 SeanBot: [gets a corrupt hard disc, and starts playing an old Cliff Richard song] 04:26:01 hehe 04:26:06 Female caller: Hello? 04:26:16 and so on 04:26:17 * AaronSw laughs quite a bit. 04:26:30 so we were talking todaya 04:26:36 about setting up a modem 04:26:40 to call people at random 04:26:47 and play them segments of classical music 04:26:57 Ooh, that'd be awesome. 04:27:52 Heh. You could send code that way. Hum bits of classical music to people, and then get them to reconstruct the message by using the first character of the title (and/or composer) 04:28:35 So, as is the case with many of my insane experiments, the basis is some sort of humming automaton 04:29:09 Now, let's talk about different types of humming devices. You have your speaker... well, you just have your speaker. Normally, you connect it up to some humming tape loop 04:29:19 http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/27.html#a259 04:29:22 it's a rant, definatly a rant 04:29:33 But you might be able to synthesize a hum. I don't know. I like the retro charm of a tape loop 04:29:42 * sbp interrupts his rant, and reads J's thing 04:31:01 heh, that's an interesting story 04:31:08 hmm, gotta edit it to say that we traded in our tickets 04:31:33 'tis indeed 04:31:47 you're left-hand side local links are broken, BTW. 04:31:55 they link to stuff like http://radio.weblogs.com/about.html 04:32:01 yeah 04:32:02 thanks 04:32:06 just how Dave wanted it 04:33:22 Heh: "Aaron Swartz, not yet draftable, advises that members of the US Congress are trying to reinstate the draft!" 04:41:22 Aaron, why haven't you updated your Weblog? That's just disgusting behaviour 04:41:35 I have nothing to say. And you? 04:41:59 I have nothing to say 04:42:01 doesn't stop me 04:42:05 I have nothing to say 04:42:06 heh 04:42:31 well, I have stuff to say. But that doesn't stop me from not saying it 04:46:38 * AaronSw posts something 04:47:19 Notice that TimBL uses -- like I do. 04:47:29 Take that you single-dash freak. 04:48:13 Ken MacLeod: "Julie said it was immoral, Ewen said it was illegal, Adrian said it was far too expensive and I said I knew a man who could get it for us cheap." (via Wes) 04:48:30 Single dashes are quicker to type, I'm sure 04:49:02 heh. If that had been serial comma'd, it would have been rather funny 04:49:28 dashes? I see no dashes 04:49:41 What are they called then? 04:49:50 hyphenographs? 04:49:56 the official name is HYPHEN-MINUS 04:50:15 it is indeed 04:50:22 Notice that TimBL uses two HYPHEN-MINUSes like I do. Take that you single HYPHEN-MINUS freak. 04:50:26 Hmm, it does have a good ring to it. 04:50:28 haha 04:50:54 no. Only people with far too much time on their hands (and all used to read Unicode documents) call it that 04:51:20 I didn't say anyone *calls* it that 04:51:31 Dear Sirs: It appears your article is using more HYPHEN-MINUSes than are necessary. I'd appreciate it if you could review your style guide on the proper use of a HYPHEN-MINUS in writing. Many thanks, your friend-in-HYPHEN-MINUS-usage. 04:51:37 heh, heh 04:51:52 Of course, I should use an em dash—and therefore become normal 04:52:07 they're usually rendered as hyphens, so I call them that 04:52:19 But I can't find a decent way to represent a hair space, so I don't bother 04:52:29 and hyphens suck as dashes 04:52:30 It's weird, my logic teacher uses ¬ for the not symbol and calls it a tilde. I always thought ~ was a tilde. 04:52:47 you are right 04:52:59 which is the NOT symbol? 04:53:10 ¬ 04:53:18 n : a diacritical mark (~) placed over the letter n in Spanish 04:53:28 I always used ~. ¬ is so much harder to write. 04:53:44 aha: ?—? 04:53:45 ñ 04:53:50 it's just shift-` on my keyboard 04:54:02 yeah. Here too 04:54:04 Which? ~? 04:54:06 ¬, that is 04:54:12 Odd, ~ is on mine. 04:54:30 ¬ is Option-L. 04:54:37 though I've never used ¬ except in smilies 04:54:45 ~ is SHIFT-# for me 04:54:46 :¬) 04:54:57 Y'all have funny keyboards. 04:54:59 you mean, you've ¬ used ¬ 04:55:09 ? 04:55:34 The British keyboards I've seen are all quite odd. 04:56:04 bah, you should see some of the european keyboards 04:56:11 > as shift-< etc. 04:56:51 Now I need to prove how to use an inconsistency detector to test validity to my teacher. 04:57:00 Hmm, that is quite odd. 04:57:19 I've found the strange placements of the Euro symbol quite interesting 04:57:31 on the 4 key? 04:57:51 That sort of makes sense, I suppose. 04:57:55 € 04:58:02 just a black dot in mIRC... 04:58:05 Is that supposed to be a Euro? 04:58:18 Here it's a small circle with lines coming out of its four corners. 04:58:27 AaronSw: it's a Microsoft character 04:58:44 appears fine for me in http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2002-01-28.txt 04:58:49 it's just a control character on my screen 04:58:58 what the Unicode codepoint for the Euro, deltab? 04:59:01 impress me 04:59:07 U+20AC 04:59:10 :-) 04:59:25 * sbp is suitably impressed 04:59:56 that's about the only Unicode character whose code I do know 05:02:00 * sbp can confirm, through http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U20A0.pdf 05:02:18 Why PDF? 05:02:36 heh:- 05:02:37 [[[ 05:02:37 20A0 EURO-CURRENCY SIGN 05:02:37 • intended for ECU, but not widely used 05:02:37 • historical character, this is NOT the euro! 05:02:38 ]]] 05:03:17 PDF: because people love PDF, rejoice when they find a document, and flibble in exispeciferous glee when they take several hours to download 05:03:17 hm? 05:03:43 What's ECU? 05:03:52 European Currency Unit 05:04:41 .google ECU "European Currency Unit" 05:04:42 ECU "European Currency Unit": http://www.xe.com/euro.htm 05:05:09 [[[ 05:05:10 The Euro is not just the same thing as the former European Currency Unit, which used to be listed in our services as "XEU". The ECU was a theoretical "basket" of currencies rather than a currency in and of itself, and no "ECU" bank notes or coins ever existed. In short, the ECU no longer exists. It has been replaced by the Euro, which is a bona fide currency. 05:05:11 ]]] 05:05:16 so there you go 05:05:18 Gotta run 05:05:32 interesting. 05:05:46 DoidT (~besirc@host217-35-164-1.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 05:07:43 Hello? 05:07:53 hmm 05:08:02 need to stop ignoring these irc channels 05:08:02 hi 05:08:16 or rather the euro (lowercase, unlike the Dollar and the Pound) 05:09:04 That seems sort of silly. 05:09:26 I mean, they might have well called it eUro. 05:11:37 I've a simple api for a KnowNow router if anyone's interested: 05:11:52 http://bitcloud.net:8000/api/ 05:13:16 Um, javascript enabled browsers only, I should have mentioned 05:13:29 And only IE and Mozilla at that 05:14:00 what does it do again? 05:15:38 Well, that page just provides a simple way for people to get data from a router 05:15:51 Are you asking about KnowNow in general? 05:16:08 it crashed my browser 05:16:19 good point, I don't know what knownow does 05:16:29 Sorry, it is fairly crude, which browser are you using? 05:16:43 IE5/Mac 05:16:57 DoidT: you should use something other than spaces in your product version: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec3.html#sec3.8 05:17:02 Jeremiah: the definitive article is Jon Udell's: 05:17:05 http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1816/byt20011128s0003/1203_udell.html 05:17:48 Aaron: I don't thing it'll work on IE Mac, I'm hoping it will on later versions - part of the reason I'm getting a Mac 05:18:12 cool 05:18:14 DoidT: will read 05:18:37 jeremiah, essentially it's a stream distribution thing. You send packets to a stream on a server, and they send them out to everyone subscribed to that stream 05:19:31 The Plex should be able to do that w/o a central server. 05:19:39 interesting 05:20:02 Deltab: I'm learning there :) 05:20:07 DoidT has quit ("Bye") 05:20:26 ugh, i'm feeling tired. c'ya later 05:20:31 bye aaron 05:20:57 * AaronSw sets alarm clock so he can do homework in the morning 05:21:11 BTW, why are you out of school already? 05:21:25 me? 05:21:26 no 05:21:29 block schedules 05:21:36 oh? 05:21:36 we start new classes on monday 05:21:46 aha 05:21:48 trimester? 05:21:56 semester 05:22:07 two semesters of 4 blocks 05:22:09 hour and a half classes 05:22:25 DoidT (~besirc@host217-35-164-1.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 05:22:49 interesting. college much the same but with 50 min. classes 05:22:56 hmm 05:23:07 I'll cross that bridge when I come to it (No desire to hurry) 05:23:08 but classes ended before winter break, so i had a month or two off 05:23:16 yeah 05:23:23 I only had a desire to slow down. :) 05:24:15 Oh, I figured out who invented the Plex: Gelernter. 05:24:47 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Mark your calendars: December 21, 2012 05:24:55 c'ya all 05:25:48 Seeya 05:26:35 Deltab: belated thanks for that tip 05:26:47 you're welcome 05:31:25 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:19:59 DoidT has quit ("Bye") 07:13:54 tansaku (~sam@n145-002.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 08:08:00 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 09:26:53 tav has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:26:54 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:27:52 tav (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 09:27:53 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 09:27:59 tav has quit (Excess Flood) 09:28:21 tav (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 10:52:00 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:51:46 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:52:06 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 12:08:00 tansaku (~sam@n145-002.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:11:24 * tansaku grooves to the Mayan calendar magic 13:03:12 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:57:33 deus_x has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:37:14 tansaku (~sam@n145-002.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:56:18 * AaronSw ges a letter about http://swag.webns.net/rdfnsPractises 15:00:00 AaronSw: need to encode those < >s 15:01:45 that's what he wrote about :0 15:13:44 taguri.org: 'For instance, the example tag for my dog, above, should only ever be used for that dog. But there are fuzzy lines here: in five years, when he's not so spry, will he be the "same" dog"?' 15:13:56 Um, am I the only on who thinks the answer is obviously yes. 15:32:49 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:36:03 jeremiah has quit ("Client Exiting") 16:20:22 deus_x (~deus_x@adsl-65-42-33-202.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net) has joined #swhack 16:35:51 deus_x has quit (Remote closed the connection) 16:53:45 deus_x (~deus_x@adsl-65-42-33-202.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net) has joined #swhack 17:24:26 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:26:03 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 17:30:19 deltab has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:32:35 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 17:35:01 .google Gelernter 17:35:02 Gelernter: http://www.cs.yale.edu/HTML/YALE/CS/Brochure/faculty/gelernter.html 17:35:34 Um, am I the only on who thinks the answer is obviously yes. 17:35:41 no, I agree with that too 17:50:33 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 17:51:06 Hi big J 18:00:00 hey sbp 18:00:06 reading that paper on Chord right now 18:00:10 interesting stuff 18:30:50 deus_x has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:58:19 hmmph 18:58:24 someone kicked out the net connection again 19:33:03 kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 19:33:15 hey kenm 19:33:18 hey 19:33:48 I assume this quote is the other kenm: 19:33:49 "Julie said it was immoral, Ewen said it was illegal, Adrian said it was far too expensive and I said I knew a man who could get it for us cheap." -- Ken MacLeod 19:47:37 I hope you all have been paying attention. It is time for your final exam. The page you requested has not been archived. If the page is still available on the Internet, we will begin archiving it during our next crawl. 19:47:44 err. http://www.skyhunter.com/marcs/finalexam.html 19:55:14 yes, that is the other kenm. raised an eyebrow tho when I saw it! hmm, thinks meself, I don't remember ever saying that... oh! 19:55:38 http://www.gltron.org/ 19:56:05 GL impl. of the snakes game from Tron 19:56:14 awesome feel 19:56:47 he! 19:56:49 err heh! 19:57:28 ooh, OS X binary 19:59:50 gotta run, ttyl 19:59:51 kenm has quit ("Leaving") 19:59:56 hello 20:00:07 hey there 20:00:25 I've been reading, off and on, those MIT docs on Chord 20:00:34 my question is (and I haven't finished yet) 20:00:41 are we going to have unique keys for everything? 20:00:41 cool 20:00:43 I assume we are 20:00:59 Everything worth talking about. 20:01:15 and then, if we do, they're going to be determined by hashes, I would think from all the talk of hashes 20:01:46 so we aren't actually going ot search using the plex right, is it just going to be used for data storage? 20:02:23 No, the Plex uses Chord but goes beyond it. 20:02:29 ok 20:02:48 ok 20:02:52 So what really happens is you get triples with parts missing, like: :title ?x 20:03:00 where ?x is the bit you want filled in. 20:03:03 ok 20:04:09 now what if I spelled something wrong 20:04:22 wait, let me rephrase 20:04:35 the system determines what search to perform right? not the user 20:05:24 i think talking about it like that is confusing, since the system doesn't make decisions like that. 20:05:30 ok 20:05:34 I think I know what's going on though 20:05:40 The system is only indexed that way, yes. 20:05:41 but it's hard to explain 20:05:57 Just like you can only query Google for full words, you can only query the Plex for full parts o a triple. 20:06:15 gotcha 20:06:32 * AaronSw was wondering how long it'd take tav to say that. 20:06:32 wow, that makes sense now (why google is so damn fast) 20:07:23 yeah 20:07:34 they can split the problem up the same way the plex can. 20:10:07 for the logs " #plex" 20:10:15 but #plex has crap logs 20:10:20 yeah 20:31:57 Morbus: "goddamit, i am a moron - that's *me*." 20:52:40 except he didn't use "quotes" 21:07:12 kmacleod (~kmacleod@chomsky.casbah.org) has joined #swhack 21:07:46 Mr. MacLeod! 21:40:42 tin (~nobody@213-98-99-57.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #swhack 21:41:38 what happens dec 21 , 2012? 21:41:50 end of the world, supposedly 21:43:11 tin has quit ("KVIrc 2.1.1 'Monolith'") 21:47:40 ttyl 21:47:40 kmacleod has quit ("Leaving") 22:46:36 RDF and P2P: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decentralization/message/236 22:48:39 ugh, those ads are so annoying. It seems that every time I visit, there are more of them 22:48:58 indeed 22:51:25 .google swhack 22:51:26 swhack: http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog 22:51:56 ugh, the Weblog is borked 22:51:57 [[[ 22:51:58 invalid command name "render_webpage" 22:51:58 while executing 22:51:58 "render_webpage {} /web/blogspace/www/swhack/weblog" 22:51:59 [...] 22:52:00 ]]] 22:52:54 try hitting reload 22:53:45 yeah, it's alright now 22:54:06 I should have written: Aaron: Weblog: borked 22:58:03 lol! 22:58:07 @ http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/ 22:58:12 A: Google from sbp 22:58:15 yeah, that's great 22:58:25 A:|Google - alt.google.bork.bork.bork 22:58:26 titled item A 22:58:52 A:|International Google: Swedish Chef 22:58:59 that's better 22:59:07 I needed as "search." in there anyway 22:59:43 titled item A 23:00:17 A::Google en borked Sweedish 23:00:37 Zee must cumprehenseefe-a imege-a seerch oon zee veb. 23:00:55 commented item A 23:01:06 heh, heh: "Resoolts 1 - 10 ooff ebuoot 2,540. Seerch tuuk 0.31 secunds. Um gesh dee bork, bork!" 23:06:03 i really wish google would add mailing lists Yahoo groups 23:06:06 s/Sweedish/Sveedish/ 23:06:24 heh, I've been thinking that for a long while 23:06:31 but they already used groups.google.com 23:06:44 they could use the same interface. 23:07:05 and the same url 23:07:12 just point google at an mbox file 23:07:39 it's odd that Yahoo! felt the need to plaster ads everywhere. I guess they're really starting to lose money 23:07:51 but it's silly, because they'll just drive people away 23:08:26 they must be really desperate 23:09:59 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 23:10:03 Hello 23:33:00 * sbp makes a `u borkify` script, and it 'keend ooff foorks' according to itself 23:35:33 that should have been "vurks", I suppose 23:56:49 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 23:57:54 hey 2002-01-29.txt0100644000014300000000000005033607425633572011712 0ustar nobodyroot00:15:04 tansaku (~sam@n145-050.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:34:25 @ http://www.boardsmag.com/screeningroom/musicvideos/220/ 00:34:34 A: http://www.boardsmag.com/screeningroom/musicvideos/220/ from AaronSw 00:34:46 A:|Music Video: White Stripes - Fell In Love With A Girl 00:34:47 titled item A 00:34:58 A::It's cool because it's entirely made of Lego. 00:34:58 commented item A 01:06:03 Heh, jer fell asleep reading chord docs 01:06:17 heh, heh 01:09:19 insane! http://www.plastic.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/28/1629243&from=rdf 01:11:20 fuck, that really is bizarre 01:13:32 "Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road." 01:19:56 original: http://proliberty.com/observer/20020101.htm 02:25:00 Gotta run 03:01:34 whoa, well that was fun 03:01:45 GLTron took over my screen for a while 03:03:31 GLTron? 03:07:39 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:10:30 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:11:23 yeah, that game ken pointed us to 03:15:43 ah 03:28:14 heh.. it's a cool game 03:35:55 Wow, my little EARL "check for fixes" filter worked first time 03:37:06 @ http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist 03:37:08 B: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist from AaronSw 03:37:17 check for fixes? 03:37:55 B:|TAG issues list 03:37:57 titled item B 03:40:52 yeah. So, if a tool fails a test on day x, and then passes the same test on day x+1, it's been fixed 03:43:32 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 03:43:41 hey Mr. Revisionist History :-) 03:46:19 heh 03:46:28 it was tempting, but i only appended 03:47:34 but i keep getting emails from rdf folks 03:47:56 about that? odd 03:48:09 yeah, with bad jokes about my logical abilities 03:48:33 it must be linked from some prominent place 03:49:14 .google swartz logic 03:49:15 swartz logic: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-logic/2001Aug/0031.html 03:50:59 * sbp listens again to Whispering Grass, Sandy Denny 03:52:39 hmm, i wonder if i can get a unix account out of the w3c. that'd be cool 03:53:13 Sw3c 03:54:26 wmf, quick get all your Web Architecture issues resolved. it's Ask The TAG! http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist 03:55:17 woohoo! 03:56:16 Dear TAG, My friend Aaron says that fragURIs are nutty. What's wrong with him? Sincerely, sbp 03:56:43 * sbp listens to Whispering Grass again 03:57:03 To Troubled-in-HTTP-Space: it is not your friend but you who are nutty. Don't you realize that fragURIs are of the devil? Sincerely, The TAG. 03:57:36 That's just how they'd put it, too 03:57:59 (it was drafted by you-know-who) 04:05:35 * sbp manages to work out the chords for Whispering Grass rather quickly 04:14:46 @ http://norvig.com/python-iaq.html 04:14:51 C: Python IAQ: Infrequently Answered Questions from AaronSw 04:17:23 I did wonder about x++ 04:18:01 heh, the bit about "abstract" is funny 04:20:10 yeah. Java sucks 04:33:37 Ach, I can't get Apache\PHP\MySQL to work 04:34:02 2I might aswell give up 04:34:22 whoa, you're speaking in color 04:34:47 lol, its a feature of x-chat, btw did you get Toast to worK? 04:35:03 yes, it's much better than using the finder 04:35:08 I think you type 4 ot something 04:35:19 I think you type % C 4 or something 04:35:34 contracted of course, for red atleast 04:38:17 I2-14n2-15v2-10i2-11s2-2i4o5n 04:39:41 I2-14n2-15v2-10i2-11s2-2i2-4o2-5n 04:40:31 heh: "I don't know why Joe Clark has such a bone to pick with me" - http://benturner.com/soapbox/2000/camposts.txt 04:40:41 he has a bone to pick with practically everyone and anyone 04:44:52 he's Joe Clark 04:46:03 4 04:46:16 %0 l 04:51:44 Wes, you already have a standard talk? 04:51:51 sure 04:52:43 what about? 04:52:52 P2P infrastructure 04:55:08 another day, another power mac speed bump, another replay of the ppc/intel benchmark flame wars... 04:55:41 heh 04:57:46 I predict the TiBook will go to 800 at the next speed bump 04:58:18 that's all? we want a Ghz! 04:58:29 @ http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020128S0037 04:58:36 D: SiliconStrategies.com - Motorola pushes PowerPC to 1-GHz with SOI technology from wmf 04:59:15 So is Austin the real Silicon Something-or-other? 04:59:33 D:\ the TiBook currently has the 7440; it will probably get the 7445 at 800MHz 04:59:38 silicon hills 04:59:54 it's D::, not D:\ here 05:00:11 D::the TiBook currently has the 7440; it will probably get the 7445 at 800MHz 05:00:12 commented item D 05:00:17 perhaps we should get the p2pwg to standardize these things or something 05:00:25 you and your nonstandard chump syntax 05:05:42 looks like a new cinema display is coming 05:11:04 BenSw is now known as BenSw|bed 05:13:59 G'night all 05:14:15 'night Ben 05:14:36 I think I'm gonna go to sleep. maybe i'll even get something done tomorrow. 05:15:39 nite 05:18:23 c'ya 06:36:44 tansaku (~sam@n146-067.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:39:04 xena has left #swhack 06:39:06 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 07:03:23 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 07:10:52 GabeW has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:11:03 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 07:19:37 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 08:06:24 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 09:41:20 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:00:02 tansaku (~sam@n146-067.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:35:12 tansaku2 (~sam@h134-170.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:39:10 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:47:36 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 15:42:59 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:16:04 kham (kmnguyen@dhcp-29-111.imt.uwm.edu) has joined #swhack 17:16:17 hello all 17:16:27 hello Aaron 17:17:55 hi 17:20:29 I read your no-school email 17:20:45 very good and interesting 17:20:50 thanks 17:21:36 I think you are on right trach towards success 17:21:39 track 17:23:32 getting a group of talented programmers together is a great idea. 17:24:08 yeah, it's very difficult, tho 17:24:29 true, the logistics is burdensome 17:26:29 tav has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:26:29 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 17:44:31 Hmm, The Register says there'll be a CodeCon webcast. 17:49:49 kham has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:51:25 deltab has quit ("changing servers") 17:51:25 deltab_ (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 17:53:26 deltab_ is now known as deltab 19:21:10 Scienide (~eddr_yeah@mail.olympic-catering.gr) has joined #swhack 19:30:06 *snore* 19:30:11 anyone alive? 19:45:09 Scienide has left #swhack 19:50:05 deus_x (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 20:36:03 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 20:40:10 * jeremiah is alive 20:40:16 * jeremiah is away: I'm busy 20:40:19 * jeremiah is back (gone 00:00:02) 20:40:33 heh 20:41:06 how much longer is this flood gonna take? 20:41:22 you just do it so we'll have a public record, right? 20:41:28 yeah 20:41:32 should be done in a sec 20:41:39 ok 21:16:37 AaronSw has changed the topic to: With 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096 channels, there's bound to be something you're interested in. 21:16:50 Argh! 21:16:52 AaronSw has changed the topic to: The Plex: With 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096 channels, there's bound to be something you're interested in. 21:17:03 hey there sbp 21:17:10 Hi 21:18:50 why "Argh!"? 21:19:29 big topic 21:19:37 heh, yeah. 21:19:49 does it make your client go wonky? 21:20:03 nope 21:20:25 I was just looking at the title bar at the time, and all of a sudden it was filled with numbers 21:20:34 Heh, heh. 21:20:58 I was thinking it'd be cool to make a map of the Plex at some point, but you'd have to lose a lot of detail with that many nodes. 21:24:10 yeah. Like my logicerror SVG map? 21:24:29 yeah, except you'd need [big number in topic] spots. 21:27:11 heh. Yes... 21:27:28 that'd be one big SVG 21:27:40 oh, yeah 21:47:16 heh: http://www.w3.org/2001/08/AnnoteaOxygenDemo 21:47:58 "EARL or a similar format" 21:48:00 what's so funny? 21:48:13 and it's nice that they don't actually use EARL at all. Not even a little bit 21:48:20 "accessibility defects" is funny. 21:48:38 yeah 21:48:40 "We would like this tool to produce RDF metadata, such as EARL, but the tool reports the findings in a proprietory XML format." 21:48:48 Blast those "proprietory" tools! 21:48:59 You stupid Brits bring your politics into everything... 21:49:13 lol! 21:49:26 Hmm... written by Ralph 21:49:43 well, last revision was by Ralph. Possibly authored by Marja 21:49:58 Did you see zakim's new super features? 21:50:04 nope 21:50:14 he does queue-tracking and agenda-tracking now 21:50:39 so he'll listen to: 21:50:39 Pretty cool. All RDF backed, I presume? 21:50:43 * AaronSw raises hand 21:50:46 and: 21:50:48 chair acks AaronSw 21:50:51 and umute me 21:50:54 err unmute me 21:51:14 RDF: something like that. 21:51:30 and you can ask him who's up next, etc. 21:51:33 that's a nice feature. Does it handle it so that only one person at a time can be unmuted (except the chair)? 21:51:47 or have some type of limit? 21:51:50 i think you can have it do that. 21:51:54 you just say: 21:51:56 zakim, mute sbp 21:52:08 it's great fun to do that while they're talking ;-) 21:52:15 heh, heh, I'll bet 21:52:36 Jon: [rambles on] 21:52:37 Zakim, mute Jon 21:52:37 Chair: moving right along... 21:52:47 Jon is a made up name, BTW. 21:53:53 sure :-) 21:55:21 Gotta run 21:58:07 * AaronSw plays with zakim-bot 21:58:12 * AaronSw raises hand 21:58:13 * Zakim sees AaronSw on the speaker queue 21:58:13 chair acks aaronsw 21:58:13 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue 22:09:28 wow! zakim even supports "ping us in 10 minutes" 22:33:32 I like this line: 22:33:36 # Very important to leave this line in for the sake of future historians. 22:33:36 self.if_doQ_thread_i_am_i_am_then_start_new_doQ_thread_with_spam = None 22:33:42 - pyutil.DoQ 23:01:33 kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 23:01:51 DoidT (~besirc@host217-35-164-1.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 23:02:53 does Julian hang around here often? 23:03:02 xena: seen Julian 23:03:15 hmm 23:03:29 who's julian? 23:03:32 jbond? 23:03:37 .seen jbod 23:03:37 AaronSw: no match found: jbod 23:03:38 .seen jbond 23:03:38 jbond seen in #syndic8 saying: [ I need to krash. See ya ] ~ 76 day(s) 23 hr(s) 24 min(s) 51 sec(s) ago 23:04:32 hehe, guess not 23:05:01 heh, heh 23:05:04 I had a disagreement with his post re node databases and scripting languages 23:05:20 on voidstar.com 23:06:29 http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=715 23:07:00 ken, well i think he reads our weblog. you can counterblog it here. 23:07:10 Zope, and yes even Frontier, I think show that closely tying a DB and language is a much richer thing than a relational database 23:07:56 what's the blog syntax ehre? 23:08:20 syntax is: @ URI 23:08:25 B::text 23:08:27 commented item B 23:08:31 urgh 23:08:40 heh, heh 23:08:41 B:: 23:08:41 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist 23:08:42 TAG issues list 23:08:43 (AaronSw) text 23:08:50 nice 23:09:07 B::of issues are availavle here. 23:09:08 commented item B 23:09:34 that would have been a nice fix, had you have spelled "available" correctly 23:09:41 urgh 23:10:15 @ http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=715 23:10:20 E: Voidstar from kmacleod 23:10:52 title? 23:10:59 E:|title 23:11:02 "Voidstar" 23:11:12 it already has a title, but you can override it 23:11:59 E:|VoidStar: Relational db as good as object DB? not currently 23:12:00 titled item E 23:14:28 E::Yes, hundreds of thousands of web sites all use relational databases, but to do so they all (almost to the last) do so by using SQL directly or wrapping hand written or schema generated code around it -- "ick!", I say! 23:14:29 commented item E 23:15:06 ooh, I could comprise rdfs:comment property values from a concatenation of n:defintion and n:note 23:16:13 E::Zope and Frontier take a different approach by natively binding the inherent structure of the database into the language. 23:16:16 commented item E 23:16:48 I'm not sure I should say this, but I think Dave's statement that "Relational databases are good for factories and stores. Object databases map the model of the Web. Just change the slashes to dots and off you go." is exactly wrong. 23:19:24 The is based upon a relational (links) not a hierarchical model. 23:19:32 Altho, it's more hierarchical (slashes) than I would like. 23:20:40 I hear .net is more node/property based. that's good. 23:20:51 and C#/CLR tightly integrated into it. 23:21:04 node/property is pretty much what Frontier does, right? 23:21:20 that's exactly along the same lines of what I'm talking about, in contrast to Julian's take on RDBs 23:22:12 hm 23:22:24 I do like the convenience of Zope's ODB. 23:23:18 but I think I like RDF DBs even better. :) 23:23:45 BenSw|bed is now known as BenSw 23:24:22 Frontier has nested dictionaries (which it calls "tables"), they're not quite nodes 23:25:20 too much chaos in RDF DBs, too little apparent structure 23:26:02 Zope's "convenience" is *exactly* the distinction to be made 23:26:50 maybe "emergent" is a better term than "apparent" 23:28:00 E::It's said that .net's data store and C#/CLR are bound in a very similar way. 23:28:02 commented item E 23:28:58 structure is overrated 23:29:17 heh 23:34:56 E::I disagree with Dave W. that hierarchy has anything in particular to do with it, except as a convenient default localized storage pattern. 23:34:57 commented item E 23:35:01 E::A graph-structured database is far more analogous to the web, and more clearly represents the distributed nature of the web. 23:35:03 commented item E 23:37:48 E::Aaron points at RDF here, and he may be right, but at this point there is no tight binding to a language and (I believe) current RDF research systems have too much chaos to their data presentation. 23:37:49 commented item E 23:38:33 E::Well, I'm working on the binding bit, and data presentation is simply a matter of, well, presentation. 23:38:37 commented item E 23:39:46 E::As I well know, from work on Orcard ;-) 23:39:48 commented item E 23:39:49 argh!!! 23:39:55 Heh. 23:40:01 s/Orcard/Orchard/ 23:40:24 E::er, "Orchard" 23:40:26 commented item E 23:40:27 E::He means [Orchard|http://orchard.sourceforge.net/]. 23:40:28 commented item E 23:40:57 SF: "This project has not yet submitted a description." 23:41:19 eh, it's dead anyway 23:41:58 I still recommend it to folks. 23:42:34 it needs a new hero 23:45:40 it parses RSS decently, which is good enough for me :) 23:46:01 heh 23:46:51 I think if Orchard/C could compile and load modules dynamically, it'd be a schweet runtime 23:47:17 and, of course, perfectly fitted as a binding to a node-view of RDF ;) 23:48:30 Heh, heh. 23:49:10 mnot has been doing some cool stuff with Python-RDF bindings that I want to work on. 23:49:16 * AaronSw gets $26.47 from Amazon on $480.20 of sales. Hmm. 23:49:32 Wow, one person actually bought a book I linked to. 23:50:09 has he bound them as py attributes? 23:50:16 yeah. 23:50:31 how did he handle namespaces? 23:50:57 you define the namespace and then do: nsname_localname 23:51:11 I'd love to submit (er, have someone submit and follow thru) on a NS RFC for Py and Perl 23:51:14 and Ruby 23:51:30 to build it into the language, you mean? 23:52:09 how'd he handle the global naming problems with nsname_localname, do you know? 23:52:19 yes, build it into the language 23:52:25 global naming problems? 23:52:46 * AaronSw is hunting for the code. 23:53:13 when you say, 'nsname_localname', do you really mean 'prefix_localname', as in dc_subject? 23:53:21 yeah 23:53:50 -- 23:53:50 world = World('here') 23:53:50 world.registerNS('person', "http://www.example.org/people#") 23:53:51 world.registerNS('contact', "http://www.example.com/contact#") 23:53:51 Thing = ThingFactory(world) 23:53:51 bob = Thing("person_bob") 23:53:53 bob.contact_phone = "555-1212" 23:53:55 -- 23:54:31 if your module Foo declares 'dc' as Dublin Core, and my module Bar declares 'dc' as BarNS, how does the library know the difference? 23:54:49 I think you just answered my question 23:54:59 that's broke, it doesn't scale. 23:55:23 ah, interesting point. 23:55:24 two module authors can't independently work on the same World 23:55:52 Orchard's namespaces are lexically scoped 23:55:56 he says the reason he did that is python doesn't allow .s in **args. 23:56:04 lexically? 23:56:31 property names are represented internally fully qualified (I used 2-tuples) 23:56:52 yes, local to the syntactical scope within the file 23:57:56 in Orchard/C, it's done at compile time by rpe-parsing the source; in Orchard/Py|Perl it's done at runtime by using NS generators 23:59:19 so i guess one way to solve the problem is to create interfaces to a world, right? 23:59:45 and have the interfaces translate from scoped ns to fully-qualified 23:59:54 PERSON = namespace("http://www.example.org/people#") 23:59:54 CONTACT = namespace("http://www.example.com/contact#") 23:59:54 bob = Thing(PERSON.bob) 23:59:54 bob[CONTACT.phone] = "555-1212" 2002-01-30.txt0100644000014300000000000017161707426100405011671 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:10 oh, that's what I do in rdfapi 00:00:11 PERSON and CONTACT are locally scoped in Python 00:00:19 the reason he couldn't do that is because of: 00:00:20 -- 00:00:27 bob.contact_address = Thing(None, 00:00:28 contact_street = "314159 There Street", 00:00:28 contact_city = "EveryVille", 00:00:28 contact_state = "NA", 00:00:29 contact_zip = "12345" 00:00:29 ) 00:00:30 -- 00:00:41 the problem is that those are evaluated at runtime as attribute lookups, so they would be slow 00:01:43 I guess the thingFactory could take namespace bindings. 00:02:52 bob[CONTACT.address] = Thing(None, { 00:02:53 CONTACT.street : "314159 There Street", 00:02:53 CONTACT.city : "EveryVille", 00:02:53 CONTACT.state : "NA", 00:02:53 CONTACT.zip = "12345" 00:02:53 } ) 00:03:12 er, that last '=' should be a ':' 00:03:29 Ooh, I hadn't thought of that! 00:03:56 but, that's where the RFC would come in, that all should be: 00:03:57 bob.CONTACT:address = Thing(None, { 00:03:58 CONTACT:street : "314159 There Street", 00:03:58 CONTACT:city : "EveryVille", 00:03:58 CONTACT:state : "NA", 00:03:58 CONTACT:zip : "12345" 00:03:59 } ) 00:04:47 and, you could even go back to: 00:04:47 bob.contact:address = Thing(None, 00:04:48 contact:street = "314159 There Street", 00:04:48 contact:city = "EveryVille", 00:04:48 contact:state = "NA", 00:04:48 contact:zip = "12345" 00:04:49 ) 00:05:11 because named parameters would "just work" 00:05:16 what would contact:city evaluate to? 00:05:32 i suggested to TimBL that he propose a URI type in Python, written 00:05:44 since he's giving a talk on webizing python 00:05:48 the tuple ["http://www.example.com/contact#", 'city'] 00:05:57 contact:state could evaluate to the appropriate URI. 00:06:18 there's also that interpretaion 00:06:43 and that's a good "literal" for URIs too: 00:06:58 bob. = ... 00:07:47 unfortunately, the RDF crowd need to figure out whether URI <-> two-part names is bidirection or unidirectional 00:07:59 We got the TAG to take that one. :) 00:08:26 hehe, schlep it off on someone else! 00:08:51 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist#rdfmsQnameUriMapping-6 00:08:54 besides RDF, is there *any* group that sees {NS}name as ? 00:09:14 not to my knowledge. 00:09:26 it's pretty funny because apparently they rushed XML namespaces out so that RDF could use them. 00:09:31 tansaku (~sam@n145-146.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:09:34 I thought so! yup, schlupping it off to some other group! 00:09:43 RDF does not see {NS}name as 00:09:54 it doesn't? 00:10:04 nope. It does not add a hash 00:10:12 oh, right. 00:10:24 understood, I was abbreviating 00:13:14 Hmm, this is really interesting: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stlaurent-feature-xmlns-01.txt 00:13:50 now, given the proper interface (which can be approximated in current versions of Py and Perl), one should be able to have a range of interoperable RDF|node-property data stores that are very nicely bound to the languages 00:13:59 yeah, in that it dredges up all of the old "what is a namespace?" discussions 00:14:08 heh 00:14:38 i like nice bindings 00:15:07 gotta run: dinner 00:15:13 me too, ttyl 00:15:25 you too Sean! 00:15:30 c'ya! 00:15:35 kmacleod has quit ("Leaving") 00:51:15 BenSw has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:01:26 tav (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 01:02:40 yes 01:03:16 [more off-log mumblings] 01:09:27 tav has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:09:27 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:30:18 what did people do on the Web before Google, Alexa, and AudioGalaxy/Napster? 01:30:48 Who knows? 01:32:06 gotta run 01:32:19 c'ya 01:43:17 Hmm... on Dec 3rd. 2001 #, the top search result on Google for sha512 was http://lists.cryptix.org/pipermail/cryptix-team/2000-October/000295.html 01:46:20 * jeremiah is away: sleeping 01:55:54 tav (tav@host217-34-70-43.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 01:57:09 kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 01:57:46 wb 01:58:15 whatever happened to the project to let me paste a URL as a login to sites, such that it picked up my info from the URL (at least as much as authorized) 01:59:26 erm... you mean a script to get the authority info from a URI, or something more fancy? 01:59:41 an identity server 02:00:10 authentication (or merely public info), not authorization 02:00:49 context: the reason I commented on Julian's article here is because of incremental pain of registering at yet another site 02:01:04 er, yep, sorry, wrong word 02:01:09 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 02:01:16 so naturally the idea resurfaced of an identity server 02:01:46 a little blob of RDF at the end of a URL, of which could nicely be a URI for referring to said person, too 02:01:49 metacookie or something 02:02:48 my grammar parser just barfed nuts and bolts on your sentence :-) 02:03:55 a common URI for "me" is mailto:ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us, but that's a lousy URL for getting info about me. something like http://identity.org/ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us would be much better 02:04:21 that first URI is the URI for your mailbox, not you 02:04:22 not only can that be a URI for "me", but also a resource containing info about me 02:04:47 understood 02:06:17 A URI can only denote one thing 02:06:19 the relationship between you and that mailbox is [ foaf:mbox ] . where [] is a bNode 02:06:24 [an existentially quantified variable] 02:06:30 but yeah, it's a good idea 02:07:00 yes. lack of preciseness on my part 02:07:14 however, you don't need to beg to some centralized server for identity 02:07:25 I mean, you have a server, I presume? Or you can use www-archive 02:07:32 so just put the RDF online 02:08:05 the missing piece is that anyone with the URL can paste the URL. needs "something you know" to do the final authentication 02:08:56 can you give an example? 02:09:12 that is to say, there needs to be a third-party authentication 02:09:19 yes 02:10:09 base scenario one: I go to VoidStar, enter my URL as my login, and enter comments 02:10:51 because I've not authenticated in any way, just pasted a URL, there's nothing preventing anyone else from pasting the same URL and forging comments 02:11:20 ah, right 02:11:20 makes sense 02:12:02 so really, the identity "URL" would be of more use when signing up for something 02:12:04 so, some kind of "token" needs to be added to the URL to positively verify it's me with the server that maintains the URL 02:12:32 I don't think you'd add it to the "URL" 02:12:40 you'd put it in as a separate form entry 02:12:53 and I don't think you'd use the URL to login 02:12:57 that's one way (the single paste method), otherwise you can type/paste the token in the password field 02:13:10 you'd just use a normal login name. But you could specify a list of preferred login names in your personal profile 02:13:21 so that when you sign up, it chooses one for you 02:13:52 the bigger picture is that I don't want to "sign up" and maintain a destinatiuon-local profile ;) 02:15:15 a destination-local profile? 02:15:16 again with VoidStar, here's my first time in, I find something interesting I want to comment on, I don't want to go through a registration, I just want to "log in" and comment 02:15:30 a profile maintained with the site I'm visiting 02:15:40 local to the site 02:16:10 Uh huh 02:16:34 yep, it sounds like a good idea - put you'd have to promote it 02:18:34 it's got problems of an RDF degree, that is: how can one control the amount of information given out 02:19:12 but the protocol should be really simple 02:19:53 GET http://identity.org/ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us HTTP/1.1 02:20:10 Authentication: Token=foo 02:21:12 P3P could probably be applied here 02:23:13 Would this be a bit like a simpler www.trusttoolbar.com ? 02:23:29 Which is for brands, companies. 02:27:03 heh, that sounds like spyware! 02:27:35 Yes, ugly, but the same idea, no? 02:28:32 Actually horrible! 02:28:52 in a brief review, I'm not seeing the comparison 02:29:21 it does seem to verify that the owner of the pages you're on is the same as the brand being advertized 02:29:41 Ah, yes. Correct. 02:29:41 or rather, the opposite, if you see a brand but no icon, then it's not authorized 02:29:43 the identitity URL was my idea... it didn't really go anywhere 02:30:21 Why ever not, I wonder - great idea! 02:30:33 yes, it's an old idea, it just hit me again is all, and made me think of the techniques of why it didn't work last go-round 02:30:39 and i had a way to do auth with it 02:31:37 it didn't work because no one implemented, i think 02:31:51 I don't think auth is very complicated, it should be a simple double-blind 02:32:25 and a simple responder, without reverse-authentication and filtering, should be a less than 50-line script 02:33:08 two important bits: simple protocol and trivial reference server code 02:33:32 trivial client code, for webmasters to incorporate would be nice too 02:33:39 i'm not sure what you mean by double-blind reverse responder 02:33:50 Morbus (~Morbus@s109.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 02:33:56 of course now-a-days we'll just get folks to use the plex 02:33:59 hey Morbus 02:34:06 can you chump http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2002/01/29/apache_macosx_four.html for us? 02:34:27 "double blind" is the wrong term for the type of authentication where there's no clear text password ever used 02:34:55 ah 02:34:57 i forgot how to chump here. what's the prefix? 02:35:01 it's @ 02:35:05 @http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2002/01/29/apache_macosx_four.html 02:35:05 it's very similar to challenge-response, except no challenge is given 02:35:10 err "@ " 02:35:14 @ http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2002/01/29/apache_macosx_four.html 02:35:29 I guess "one-time key" is the best term 02:35:39 i was thiinking that the server could redirect to your URL plus a challenge 02:35:47 Morbus! 02:35:49 WFM 02:35:54 and then you'd auth to the URL, and it'd respond with the answer to the challenge... 02:35:57 * Morbus hides. 02:36:04 to title: X:|blargh 02:36:14 Hmm... where'd chumpster go? 02:36:15 oh. chumpster appears to be missing. 02:36:33 just a se 02:36:57 I was thinking that the user would have a local connection to the auth server, such that they could just copy a unique pw at any time and paste it in a login field 02:37:29 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 02:37:36 @ http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2002/01/29/apache_macosx_four.html 02:37:38 A: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2002/01/29/apache_macosx_four.html from Morbus 02:37:53 that'd be interesting 02:37:59 A:|Apache Web-Serving with Mac OS X, Part 4 02:37:59 titled item A 02:38:10 * kmacleod figures that if chump verbosity is ever gonna get fixed, he's gonna have to do it himself 02:38:12 you could do it with public keys... like please sign this message 02:38:29 heh, confirmation is good tho. 02:38:39 there are much bigger chump bugs, however. 02:38:41 depends on who wants the authentication 02:38:51 i thin ki've fixed many, with this syntax, tho 02:39:00 it's not so much the confirmation but how much is given 02:39:23 ah. 02:39:49 Bijan's original was really best so far in that regard 02:40:02 His new one is a verbose monster, I think. 02:40:11 it's based on chump ;) 02:40:22 true... 02:40:28 it gives each comment a URI :) 02:40:29 with RDF thrown in to make it worse ;) 02:40:36 yeah, exactly 02:40:45 we should get it set up here. ;-) 02:42:16 so, Morbus, what's the next installment going to be about? 02:42:26 mysql/php/postgresql 02:42:33 ah, maybe public-key is all you need in the generated URL. it's the destination-site that wants to verify that the paster-of-the-URL is really the-owner-of-the-URL, so http://identity.org/ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us?auth=0943093242309834098234023948 is just fine as long as that encrypted 02:42:37 i spent all this morning just researching the different distro's available 02:42:41 auth verifies against the public key from that url 02:42:56 wow... there are quite a few 02:43:07 well, specificlaly built for os x, i mean. 02:43:10 Hmm... database backed websites: a little RDF connection looming? 02:43:28 i know very little about rdf. i wouldn't do it justice 02:43:38 hmm, need a one-time thing worked into that somehow... 02:43:48 It's just a datbase format... but you could start using data from other people's sites 02:43:57 to prevent replay attacks (forged logins) 02:44:03 so, for example, news aggregation. You know about that, don't you? :-) 02:44:23 nah, i forgot all my news aggro knowledge to fit this damn db crap in there 02:44:33 heh, heh 02:44:52 I guess that an Amphy update has gone out the window, then :-) 02:45:08 heh, oh, they'll be one. 02:45:15 i have tons of ways forward, just no time to do them in 02:47:07 you said you were going to add threading last time we talked about it... it would be useful: the interface is a bit jerky 02:47:32 yeah, but the first thing i want to add is autocodeupdating, like RU has. 02:47:54 and as part of that, there'd be a wrapper binary around the plain text code, as opposed to the large binary now. 02:48:16 so, mac/win peopel could see the perl code, and mod as they want, they'd just have a single binary that would read it in. 02:48:40 read it in? 02:48:53 i was actually thinking of adding a "no gui" flag for mac/win, so that there wouldn't be a need for it. 02:49:03 the gui really presents nothing exciting to people after they've seen it a few times. 02:49:14 read it in > interpret at runtime. 02:49:48 well, it provides the status, when getting the new feeds... but yeah, I agree 02:50:06 well, it could be replaced with a dos window that disappears after finishing. 02:51:17 good idea 02:52:00 well, WinDump blows 02:53:08 sbp, you should get back into laerning perl so you can help me. 02:53:16 the other guy i had helping me disappeared. 02:53:24 i still talk to him frequently, but he has no time to code. 02:53:28 who was that? 02:53:32 he hasn't seen the code base since v0.24, i think 02:53:38 my good friend bill from monkeymind.net 02:54:16 cool. Well, I don't know how much help I'd be, especially at the rate I'm looking at Perl docs. 02:54:38 argh, I can't get a dump at all from WinDump! 02:54:39 ken: do you know if any work has been done on an xml::sax rss parser? 02:55:09 someone should come up with a Cygwin-lite tool, so that you can bundle, say, cygwin.dll, Perl, and your modules, and any other cygwin-based tools would incorporate any already-installed bits 02:56:00 kmacleod: my plan is similar. i'm using perl2exe to build ampheta now, so the desire was to write a simple wrapper that would really just set up /lib/ as an additon to @INC. 02:56:23 from there, all modules, cpan or otherwise, would get stuck in there, and the wrapper would just be the interpreter, with a hook to launch the main program. 02:56:31 no, I don't know if anyone's touched XML::RSS in a long while. Orchard's RSS module is based on the pre-{NS}NAME SAX2 02:56:39 so it'd be very easy to bring into conformance 02:56:49 last i knew, xml:rss wasn't being touched by rael. 02:57:11 the sad thing is i know nothing about sax. gimme an example, and I can go from there, but actually starting one is difficult for me. 02:57:25 plus, sax stuff isn't working perfectly under the 5.004 build of macperl. 02:57:29 SAX-in-Python really drives me nuts 02:57:32 so i'm kinda waiting for pudge to release a final. 02:57:34 is there a reason you need a sax-based one then? 02:57:42 that damn thing just refuses to work on so many levels... 02:58:02 kmacleod: not really, no. right now, i've got a bastard one built around expat, ::parser, and ::simple. but i'd like to reduce the need for expat. 02:58:13 sbp: really? I thought Py SAX was rock solid a long time ago 02:58:21 if i can ::sax and ::pureperl by default, and then use expat or another if it's there, then i can make installation a lot easier for a lot of people. 02:58:26 sbp just doesn't like event-based programming, i think 02:59:12 Morbus: ah, gotcha. yes, ::pureperl is the way to go for that, because everything you just mentioned is automatic 02:59:35 it automatically uses XML::Parser or SAX::Expat if they are installed 02:59:59 right. i would love that functionality. would make linux installs super easy, as well as making binary distributions smaller. 03:00:14 no, no, event-based programming is fine. The SAX methodology is great, but it just doesn't work 03:00:32 plus, i just want to use an event based sometime. at this point, ::simple is a memory hog on some of the large files I use. i didn't plan it out all too well. 03:01:36 sbp, what doesn't work? the cygwin distro? 03:01:38 looking at the ampheta code just makes me cringe now. 03:01:56 sigh. so much i want to redo. add a plugin api, modularize evertyhing like i shoulda, etc. 03:07:05 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m125-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:07:13 hm? 03:07:45 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 03:08:03 what happened there? 03:08:21 * kmacleod virtually whacks anyone who chmod +x/755 files that are never intended to be executable 03:08:33 Grpgmrpgmrpgprmgprmgprmgprmgpmph 03:08:34 dunno 03:08:48 Heh. 03:08:56 tav loves doing that. 03:09:13 * kmacleod then virtually whacks not the creators of color-ls, but those who made color the default 03:09:27 heh, heh. 03:09:29 you can unalias it 03:09:37 not a fan of bright green? 03:09:48 or red for gzip.s 03:09:54 nonetheless 03:11:21 anybody ever create multiple Apache server configs and try to keep them in sync? 03:11:42 I'm trying to figure out how much I need to replicate and how much can all point to common stuff 03:11:51 nope. incidentally, my ORA articles are related to Apache. 03:12:21 "point to common stuff" - with "Include"? 03:13:45 ah, I think I found it. 03:14:11 I'm setting up dev, test, and production servers and trying to duplicate as little as possible 03:14:53 the Apache I'm using comes with Oracle and has all sorts of install dirs, and I couldn't see which parts were our app and which were base install, but I think I figgered it out 03:14:57 do you want multiple servers runnign at a time? 03:15:28 essentially, yes. production on port 80, test on 8000, dev on 7000, that sort of thing 03:16:01 you could use one config file for them all. 03:16:13 and use Define's to pick and choose your production/dev stuff 03:16:14 and then command line which ones you wanted. 03:16:21 the kink in the plan is that the app is Java servlet based, and the server needs to be bounced every time the app gets updated 03:17:04 and that's on your prod server? 03:17:17 urgh. tcpdump crashed my machine 03:17:30 how do defines work in Apache configs? I was thinking of just using regex replacements 03:17:40 kmacleod: working on an example for ya. 03:18:57 [[[ 03:18:57 ... standard config crap ... 03:18:58 03:18:58 Listen 80 03:18:58 03:19:04 03:19:04 Listen 8000 03:19:04 03:19:05 03:19:06 Listen 7000 03:19:07 03:19:09 ... standard config crap ... 03:19:14 and then to start: 03:19:14 seems simple enough, thx 03:19:17 httpd -DPROD 03:19:20 httpd -DTEST 03:19:21 and so forth 03:19:38 ]]] 03:20:43 that gives you a single config, with if's based on what your command line is. 03:20:44 the hardest part is that this all got landed on me in a tarball of the /home/oracle directory, so I'm sifting through the rubble to find the real nuggets of what they consider the app 03:21:03 heh, i love crap like that. sigh. 03:21:09 * kmacleod wishes again that Oracle were available as an RPM 03:21:21 oracle is a MAJOR PAIN to install 03:21:26 i wasted 3 days on it. 03:21:31 yup. 03:21:36 oracle is a major pain in general, really. 03:21:54 it was like: how can we make a database to best torture petty humans 03:22:11 By comparison, IBM's DB2, which is packaged, took me 45 minutes the first time, and that's because 1) I did it from CDROM, and 2) Solaris's pkgadd is slow 03:22:18 s/torture petty humans/justify our support costs/ 03:22:43 or you can be cynical sure... 03:22:59 I've seen worse, th 03:23:00 tho 03:23:01 AaronSw: when have i ever been logical? ;) 03:23:34 damn, now I can't think of their name -- one the big DB third parties 03:23:46 postgres? 03:23:56 openbase? 03:24:16 no, top-tier. writes apps, dev tools, monitors for the big DBs 03:24:24 coldfusion? 03:24:39 hmm. 03:24:57 any case, not only were they not a package install, not only did they not have a Unix-based installer, noooo.... 03:25:15 it's in JAVA! 03:25:24 they had an NT-based installer that installed over the net using telnet/rcp 03:25:38 oh, that's better than i had to put up with 03:25:52 "Place this CD-ROM on an NT-Server, give us your root password, and we'll talk to you in a little while" 03:26:00 heh, heh 03:26:07 heh 03:26:45 i had this horrible java thing that took approx. 3 hrs to load and crashed every time it didn't like you, and turned out not to be comparible with the version of RedHat i had. 03:26:46 the only thing I hate worse is vender who *have no* standard install media, and place on-site consultants who install the software for you 03:27:32 anyone on a win machien with perl installed? 03:27:37 your left with, "uh, ok, and how exactly are we supposed to maintain backups, test/dev servers, etc." 03:28:11 heh, pay them, of course 03:28:12 no win here, only at work, and they only Cygwin, not ActivePropriState 03:28:47 i wanna replace my homebrew http daemon in ampheta with http::daemon. also want to add accept and fork, but dunno how well its supported. 03:28:51 I must be getting sleepy, that was a stupid slam ;) 03:29:04 especially since i have gui threads to listen for as well. 03:29:14 heh 03:29:29 sbp does, i bet 03:29:33 and tav 03:30:12 ActiveState: the quietest open-source fork ever accomplished 03:30:36 they forked? 03:30:57 for most intents and purposes, yes, they maintain their own distribution 03:31:11 with Larry as the nominal lead, mind you 03:31:17 Larry? 03:31:20 Oh... 03:31:35 heh. "Larry who?" 03:31:50 i was like, i don't know any larry who works on Python 03:32:03 :-) 03:32:05 heh 03:32:34 Morbus: how well does Perl fork (no pun intended) under Windows? 03:32:46 and/or thread 03:32:48 kmacleod: i don't know. 03:32:51 it doesn't thread. 03:32:58 i know i've run some POE stuff that forked. 03:33:04 but i don't know how well its supported. 03:33:12 thats why ampheta is single threaded. 03:33:30 it kinda uses a queue system, to shift between GETing, webserving, and gui refreshing 03:33:32 ya, I'm not sure how well it'd work for you. 03:34:20 * kmacleod needs a weblog module for MoinMoin 03:34:38 .google weblog moinmoin 03:34:40 weblog moinmoin: http://lists.infoanarchy.org/pipermail/p2pj/2001-March/000103.html 03:34:54 i didn't know infoanarchy hosted lists. hm 03:35:59 oh, they seem to be using epy which i think is twisted 03:36:28 jeez, i can't find any good simple example of a accept-and-fork http::daemon. 03:36:36 i have to be looking in the wrong place. 03:36:45 Aha! "ééå±ìIÇ»à²ñ°Ç‰ÉCÉìÉfÉbÉNÉXÉyÅ[ÉWÇ•mod_snakeâªÇµÇŸÇðÇÐǵLJÅB" 03:38:30 * rillian 's client didn't display that properly 03:38:48 Me neither. 03:39:07 * kmacleod desires so badly to rpm -e mozilla, but too many useful utilities, like Galeon, depend on it. 03:41:01 argh. perlmonks is down. 03:42:29 kmacleod: this touches a bit on win32 forking. 03:42:29 http://www.webtechniques.com/archives/2000/03/junk/ 03:49:35 hum 03:50:10 .spell midevil 03:50:14 potential spellings for midevil are: medieval, mediaeval, Medieval, medievally, medievals, medially, mediative, mediaevals, mediately, Middle 03:50:26 [cough] jeremiah 03:51:24 :) 03:52:00 jesus 03:52:05 I am showing up on so many google searches now 03:52:21 bizzare 03:52:22 heh 03:52:30 no, it's the dave effect. 03:52:33 perhaps you're searching for the wrong things 03:52:49 http://referers.userland.com/staticSiteStats/referers?group=radio1&site=0001189 03:53:39 lol: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001015/images/2002/01/29/somethingfunnyhere.gif 03:53:41 probably the whole weblog effect 03:53:56 yeah 03:54:59 that's really funny 03:55:11 heh, yeah 03:56:00 the sad thing is a lot of people that link to me never get hits, so i can go on some engines and search for people that link to me, and find all these folks who have weblogs that no one ever visits 03:56:19 like me! 03:56:47 have you linked to me? 03:56:50 see, I don't know these things 03:57:07 dunno. Should have done 03:57:11 oh 03:57:25 if not, I do apologize 03:58:07 ah, it's cool 03:58:13 I dunno if I link to you too often 03:58:17 need to update that weblog of yours 03:58:18 :) 03:58:47 heh. I'm not going to be doing that 03:58:52 i dunno, i think daily weblogging is overated 03:59:06 with radio, it's not reallly necessary 03:59:38 I'm trying to find a balance 03:59:44 between too many updates and not enough 03:59:49 I view it now as a public journal 04:00:16 I have quite a few regular readers it seems, so I'll keep updating 04:00:34 jeremiah: who are you? 04:00:37 ah, I do indeed link to J 04:00:46 M: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/ 04:00:59 the great Jeremiah! 04:01:06 Morbus: I am jeremiah, who are you? 04:01:23 J: http://www.disobey.com/ 04:01:27 the great Morbus! 04:01:38 http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/about.html 04:01:49 Aaron: who are you? 04:02:19 I dunno. 04:02:29 AaronSw is some snot nosed kids. 04:02:30 i'm his dad. 04:02:37 Morbus: so you are kevin hemenway? 04:02:39 i am plural 04:02:55 that be I, jeremiah, yes. 04:02:58 why? 04:03:07 article on oreilly 04:03:21 ah. mmHmm. 04:04:32 AaronSw: I think weblogging is a way to become moderately popular but not actually do any work 04:04:55 heh 04:05:43 now in theory i could join some developer groups and work on code (well, doing that now) 04:05:46 but that'd require too much work 04:06:41 Heh. 04:07:05 I don't think being on SN counts as being famous. :) 04:07:16 MorbusIff (~Morbus@s114.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 04:07:27 I didn't say I'm famous 04:07:48 I was on japanese telvision though, so I'm moderately famous to like 4 people in japan 04:08:27 Morbus has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: MorbusIff!~Morbus@s114.terminal3.totalnetnh.net))) 04:09:15 Heh, heh. 04:09:32 Yes! I know that kid. He was on Japanese TV show about "open sores". 04:09:37 yeah 04:09:39 MorbusIff is now known as Morbus 04:09:53 "he worked for sores-x-change, I think it's a brothel for people with herpes" 04:10:23 they make good money too! 04:10:34 actually, weblogs google effect is thankfully decreasing 04:10:45 not so sure about that 04:10:49 they're probably tuning it out though 04:11:01 it's much better now than it was at the start 04:11:08 it was way too perverted before 04:12:04 heh 04:15:47 oh man. get your enr on: http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war7.html 04:19:01 * kmacleod wonders: if some Gnome apps support Emacs-like key bindings, then why does not C-Y yank the paste buffer? 04:22:29 pfff. 04:22:34 welp, kmacleod: 04:22:34 Waiting for a connection... 04:22:34 File 'Splooge:Users:morbus:Desktop:webserver-full.txt'; Line 48 04:22:39 that nixes any forking attmept on the mac. 04:22:57 what the logs missed was: # The Unsupported function fork function is unimplemented. 04:23:58 well folks, I have a working codebase now 04:24:00 :) 04:24:06 for the berkely database system 04:24:32 allowing either one or two filled slots in the triple 04:24:58 err, moving to #plex 04:25:26 welp, off to catch up on my reading. night all 04:25:42 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 04:25:51 c'ya 04:26:07 wow. Could we be seeing more of Morbus? 04:26:15 What was all that about, eh? 04:29:34 @ http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_507663.html?menu=news.quirkies 04:29:42 B: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_507663.html?menu=news.quirkies from sbp 04:29:54 tansaku has quit (Connection timed out) 04:29:58 B:|Cow 'makes nuisance phone calls' 04:29:59 titled item B 04:30:04 B::Cows these days 04:30:05 commented item B 04:30:48 BenSw (~yoda@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 04:31:12 * BenSw laughs at the topic 04:32:35 B::I get strange calls like these. But I don't think they're from Cows. I hear CNN instead of milking sounds... 04:32:36 commented item B 04:32:52 really? 04:33:01 yeah, i know who they're from. 04:34:35 freaky 04:34:49 Dave Winer! 04:35:46 lol 04:36:15 wee'll be the top hit for "dave winer milking sounds" any day now 04:36:39 lol! 04:36:53 .google dave winer milking sounds 04:36:57 dave winer milking sounds: http://villagenews.weblogger.com 04:40:48 at least it'll bring hoardes of Googlers to swhack, if not fame and repuation 04:40:49 oh, cool. I don't know if it's Oracle or Apache, but each of the config files I'm copying already has %FOO% things to regex for 04:40:54 er.. reputation 04:41:52 er... reputability 04:42:17 but hey, you know me: it says on my homepage that I'm a noun and adjective mixer 04:44:03 I like my homepage. So there 04:45:33 Zope doesn't particularly work with Apache, does it? 04:46:00 sure it does 04:46:15 it works as a cgi or something like that 04:46:35 I mean, it prefers being its own server, correct? 04:47:11 there are a couple of ways you can use it with Apache 04:48:03 you can call it through CGI, FastCGI or PCGI 04:48:17 or you can use Apache as a proxy 04:49:19 yes, it prefers using its own server 04:50:57 one of the guys I'm working with needs to know how to do config-mgmt with Zope apps... 04:51:51 so where are you working these days? 04:52:49 my day job is with ibsys.com, who do the web sites of some of the major US TV stations. my moonlighter is a remote sysadmin for a startup telecom marketing co. 04:53:24 Cool. 04:53:37 I know that there's some big tv station using zope 04:54:10 not ours ;) we use ColdFusion, after they trashed Perl 04:54:19 heh 04:54:21 heh, they blamed it on Perl, of course ;) 04:55:23 afaict, they'd be tons better off if they were using HTML::Mason or AxKit than ColdFusion 04:55:30 or Zope, even 04:56:34 rillian has quit ("linux") 04:56:44 bye bye rillian 05:00:05 Zope appears to have Smalltalk-syndrom: everything is in one big runtime blob, and trying to modularize anything for change management is hell 05:02:07 zope3 is supposed to fix this, i think 05:02:21 oh, do you mean the ZODB? 05:05:57 don't know exactly yet. I'm talking about versioning releases of Zope apps 05:05:57 it appears that everything is very intertwined 05:05:57 bet page I've found on it is: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/VersioningForContentManagement, and that ain't look pretty 05:06:47 BenSw is now known as BenSw|asleep 05:09:31 laters, all 05:10:13 c'ya 05:11:59 kmacleod has quit ("me too") 05:31:12 tansaku (~sam@h132-077.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:07:13 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:38:20 goodbye all 06:38:21 tav has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:42:21 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:47:19 thats a cute topic 07:06:09 tansaku2 (~sam@h132-077.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 07:06:27 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 07:27:38 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:43:31 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:40:49 tansaku2 (~sam@h132-077.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 09:41:11 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 09:42:16 * tansaku always thought that you could work out the probability that you would be interested in each channel by dividing one by the number of channels 11:34:47 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:44:29 tansaku2 (~sam@h132-077.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:41:45 Lion7 (~AZERTY@ALimoges-101-1-2-137.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack 12:42:07 hey all 12:46:14 Lion7 has quit () 12:54:47 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:54:27 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 13:58:36 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 14:03:05 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 14:36:00 kenm (~ken@209.134.132.87) has joined #swhack 14:36:33 Aaron: did you blog your identity-server info? 14:36:51 not recently 14:37:26 ok, I'm gonna jot some notes, probably on RESTwiki, since this would be very RESTful 14:37:41 Cool. 14:38:01 gotta run for now, watch the recent changes for when it shows up, I probably won't link it off the front page right off 14:38:22 okedoke 14:38:26 kenm has quit (Client Quit) 14:51:36 J C Lawrence on Utopias 14:51:36 Don't strive for perfection, strive for expressive fertility. You can't create utopia, and if you did nobody would want to live there. 15:16:46 -- 15:16:56 When the going gets tough, the tough get DanC. 15:18:13 it's patrick, jeremy vs. danc, sergey 15:18:25 and i think DanC will win, since he's got sarcasm and simplicity on his side. 15:47:21 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:51:10 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 16:09:53 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:10:35 tansaku2 (~sam@n146-070.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:40:06 GabeW: sys.argv[0] 16:53:41 yeah 16:53:52 regrtest is borked or something though 17:00:02 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:00:27 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 17:39:51 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 18:14:50 GabeW2 (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 18:14:56 GabeW has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:16:01 GabeW2 has left #swhack 18:26:59 Morbus has left #swhack 18:27:20 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 18:27:38 Morbus has quit (Remote closed the connection) 18:28:26 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 18:48:08 Morbus writing Python? Hmm. 18:48:21 huh? no, not me. 18:48:27 GabeW: sys.argv[0] 18:49:01 yeah, cos he asked in #ia, sbp answered in #sbp, and i misforwarded into #swhack :) 18:49:10 heh 18:49:35 people actually say things in #sbp? 18:49:55 sadly enough, yes. 18:50:21 had I known, I wouldn't have not bothered to rejoin 18:50:29 in fact, #sbp is the original #swhack! 18:52:10 We started saying things there when Morbus left here. 18:52:56 yeah, but now it seems as though he may be back :-) 18:54:54 JJC: "One of the downsides of being collocated with the chair is that I sometimes get leant on, perhaps more heavily than other WG members." 18:54:55 oooh, don't tempt me, sbp! 18:55:13 well, tav seems to have left IRC entirely, so no worries there. 18:55:59 JJC had some real problems on the telecon. He wanted to say what he felt, but you could here Brian whacking him and making him say what HP felt. 18:56:09 s/here Brian/hear Brian/ 18:59:35 tav left *entirely*? he's coming back, right? 18:59:45 i dunno. 19:00:01 he said "goodbye all" in every channel and then disappeared with no explanation afaik 19:00:11 maybe he's homeless again 19:00:12 ah. well, he was acting all drugged up last night. 19:00:19 Heh. 19:00:24 he actually danced with me and called me the man. 19:00:32 Yeah, I saw that. 19:01:21 He seems to do that sometimes. I think he ODs on his own plans for taking over the world or something. 19:15:43 @ http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?intelligent 19:16:42 * AaronSw kicks chumpster 19:19:12 C:|Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary: intelligent 19:19:13 C::defined as "guided or controlled by a computer" in sense 3. I guess Artificial Intelligence is here already -- by definition! 19:22:00 Djkstra: "[A user] is, as a matter of fact, such an uninspiring idiot that his stupidity alone is a sufficient explanation for the ugliness of most computer systems." 19:22:31 C: Merriam-Webster OnLine from AaronSw 19:22:33 titled item C 19:22:35 commented item C 19:22:41 about time! 19:25:12 err Dijkstra 19:25:36 C::via FoRK, Dijkstra's EWD618 19:25:55 commented item C 19:30:48 deltab, when you have a chance, could you forward aaronsw@mu2 -> me@aaronsw.com? 19:43:13 "Private, intellectual, impersonal, analytical and reflective, the INTP appears to value ideas, principles and abstract thinking above all else. This logical type seeks to understand and explain the universe--not to control it!" 19:44:09 Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Perceiving 20:00:25 he said "goodbye all" in every channel and then disappeared with no explanation afaik 20:00:26 * sbp noticed that too 20:00:45 t2s pronounces afaik as "a fake" 20:01:05 yeah, I think most people do 20:01:28 * sbp spins around 20:01:31 really? I pronoune it "as far as I know" 20:02:01 yeah. There was some discussion about people pronouncing acronyms in real life as the acronyms rather than the expansions 20:02:10 I think the general consensus was that those people are nuts 20:03:22 I think it'd be cool to see what it's like to be blind for a week or something. I should ask gregory about it. 20:03:37 [thought process: t2s -> blind] 20:04:07 similarly, learning sign language and being part of deaf culture for a while would be similarly interesting. 20:05:00 Elias Sinderson in FoRK: 20:05:01 > In defense of my home town, however, I'd like to quote Mayor Paul soglin 20:05:02 > who said that "Madison is 30 square miles surrounded by reality..." Wait, 20:05:02 > is that a defense? I Guess it depends on how wedded to reality you 20:05:02 > really are. Me? I'll have none of it. 20:05:13 I love that quot from the Mayor... 20:05:17 .google new yorker madison flag 20:05:18 new yorker madison flag: http://www.avalongarden.com/for-the-home-custom-plaques-house-plaques.html 20:06:01 hm, doesn't look like it's on the web 20:06:34 ooh, snow 20:07:46 Actually, after just coming off of IRC, a couple of times I've wanted to say stuff like "me had better get a drink", thanks to the /me alias 20:07:56 I don't think I've actually said it yet, though :-) 20:08:14 I think it'd be cool to see what it's like to be blind for a week or something. I should ask gregory about it. 20:08:40 William wrote a bit about it: he said that you can take away your sight, but you still won't know what it's like to be blind 20:08:55 that sounds like something he would say 20:09:46 Here's another question I have: do people who are born blind know what colors are? 20:09:54 [[[ 20:09:55 A few people even had their eyelids sutured closed! These 20:09:55 things may let you lose eyesight but they won't let you know what it's 20:09:55 like to be blind. It takes more than loss of vision to experience 20:09:55 blindness. 20:10:00 ]]] - http://w3.gorge.net/love26/book.htm 20:10:08 there's an exchange about that somewhere too... 20:10:20 .google "Now I know what white is!" swan 20:10:20 no results found. 20:10:25 Hmm... 20:10:40 .google white swan blind Einstein 20:10:41 white swan blind Einstein: http://library.thinkquest.org/22494/stories/Einstein.htm 20:11:38 try http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:5mRm4KPh_boC:library.thinkquest.org/22494/stories/Einstein.htm+white+swan+blind+Einstein&hl=en 20:12:11 yeah 20:12:20 [for the logs] 20:12:20 [[[ 20:12:21 "Now fluid, I know what that is," said the blind man. "but what is white ? " 20:12:21 " Oh, white is the color of a swan's feathers." 20:12:21 " Feathers, now I know what they are, but what is a swan ? " 20:12:21 "A swan is a bird with a crooked neck." 20:12:24 " Neck, I know what that is, but what do you mean by crooked ? " 20:12:25 At this point Einstein said he lost his patience. He seized his blind friend's arm and pulled it straight. "There, now your arm is straight," he said. Then he bent the blind friend's arm at the elbow. "Now it is crooked." 20:12:28 "Ah," said the blind friend. "Now I know what milk is." 20:12:29 ]]] 20:12:52 so I guess the answer is no 20:13:15 this sucks so hardcore. 20:13:26 Some people who were blind from birth but then had their sight restored actually couldn't cope with the things that they saw (according to William's book) 20:13:32 the book: http://w3.gorge.net/love26/book.htm 20:13:32 i need fucking libc4/ld.so files for this fucking 4.0 product, which is now commercial 8.0. 20:13:47 Morbus, you need apt. 20:14:03 I need apt too! What's up with that and CygWin? :-) 20:14:15 tell those folks to hurry up 20:14:18 and man 20:14:31 anyone know where i can find old ass directories of source? i'm looking for something from 1996 20:16:06 .google "old ass directories of source" 20:16:07 no results found. 20:16:16 .google old ass directories of sauce 20:16:16 old ass directories of sauce: http://www.skateboarding.com/article/magazine.cfm?alias_id=6406 20:16:34 if you can't find source, go to the sauce 20:17:25 heh, indeed: "In the early days, my mother nurtured and trained me in the art of incredible-ass writing." 20:18:54 Morbus, AaronSw, and sbp in #swhack. Suddenly, the world makes sense again 20:19:20 Oh dear. 20:19:32 if this is sense, I want to get sauce. 20:19:51 Barbeque, or traditional tomato? 20:20:00 ack! everything is about cooking: 20:20:11 [[[ 20:20:11 [15:20] chinese meat+veggie stuffed dumplings 20:20:12 [15:21] yeah am getting off of ameritech suckdom next week and switching locla phone service., am thinking of tossing call waiting and voice mail while im at it 20:20:12 [15:21] they're usually terrific 20:20:12 [15:21] usually pan fried 20:20:12 [15:21] yeah, but i've been eating at real chinese restaurants.. when i ate these before, i wasn't used to high quality potstickers. 20:20:15 ]]] 20:20:30 I'm not about cooking, but I like the whole eating thang 20:25:24 argh, MP3s really suck. Am I the only one who thinks that the quality of 128KBPS is deplorable? Especially the rhythm section - drums always sound so mushy 20:25:48 it's a good reason to go out and buy CDs 20:26:21 You and my Dad. Perhaps you should join up with those folks who think compression is evil. 20:26:29 it is 20:26:40 heh, see! 20:26:41 well, lossless compression is O.K. 20:26:48 AaronSw: do you know of any pureperl (non XML::Parser/XML::RSS) rss renders? 20:27:03 nope 20:27:17 what really annoys me is the people who say that MiniDisc sound quality is better than CD! I mean, WTF? 20:27:17 I forget their name... bram should know. 20:27:46 .google Perl RSS module -"XML::Parser" -"XML::RSS" 20:27:47 Perl RSS module -"XML::Parser" -"XML::RSS": http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/messages/1 20:27:58 oh, yeah, there's that. 20:28:10 Orchard-Perl 20:29:38 Aaron, can you bridge W3C #er into opn#er? 20:29:58 is xena in w3c er? 20:30:07 she used to be 20:30:39 yeah, this guy is green - can't install anything on the server. 20:30:50 he needs it to be a single perl script, with no module dependency 20:31:01 he said rss monkey gave him tons of problems, but didn't explain further. 20:36:55 sbp has quit (Remote closed the connection) 20:37:06 AaronSw: finally found a mirror-er that would go up and down for FTP. 20:37:14 it's interarchy, the old anarchie pro. 20:37:14 cool 20:37:15 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 20:37:25 aha 20:37:31 i never thought they had a 5.0 dl for it, but its just not on their site (??) - you HAVE to go to a diff engine to get it. 20:37:34 but they don't tell you that. 20:37:38 i had a legal reg to 4. 20:37:48 for being a beta tester. i wonder if my name is still in the credits 20:39:04 sbp has changed the topic to: Two cars in every garage, a xena on every channel 20:45:42 wtf is up with this? ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host 21:10:44 :-) 21:14:23 "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces" 21:14:29 "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces" 21:14:32 "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces" 21:14:36 um 21:14:39 I'll be saying that for a while 21:14:43 why? 21:14:57 .google "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces" 21:14:58 "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces": http://pub54.ezboard.com/f8bitforumfrm6.showMessage?topicID=34.topic 21:15:13 Homer's standing in a line, and he starts thinking about two things that Lenny and Marge have said 21:15:34 Lisa needs braces, but they're just about to give up their dental plan 21:15:40 so Homer will have to come up with the money for the braces 21:15:50 however, Homer being Homer, it takes him a while to realise this 21:16:11 so he's just standing in line for some beer, and his brain's going 21:16:17 "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces", "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces", "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces"... 21:16:30 then someone drops a pencil into his butt-crack 21:16:48 Homer: now I've lost my train of thought! 21:16:59 but then he goes back to "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces", "Dental plan" "Lisa needs braces"... 21:17:11 it's mesmerizingly funny 21:18:50 it's up there with:- 21:19:05 Homer: [singing] Hey there blimpy boy, flying through the sky so fancy free 21:21:31 people are wondering why emacs comes with man pages for "sex" and "condom" 21:22:24 * sbp finds http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/92q4/condomman.html and http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kpenn/humor/comp/condom.html 21:23:13 heh:- 21:23:14 [[[ 21:23:14 BUGS 21:23:15 _condom_ is NOT 100% effective at preventing a child process 21:23:15 from being forked or at deterring the invasion of a virus 21:23:15 ]]] 21:23:20 from http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kpenn/humor/comp/condom.html 21:27:43 interesting: http://web.archive.org/* 21:27:47 erm... 21:27:52 http://www.uroulette.com/index.html 21:27:59 troma has a movie out called Killer Condom 21:28:07 heh, the things that I have on my clipboard... 21:28:13 what's it about? 21:28:47 Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:28:49 MorbusIff (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 21:29:19 troma has a movie out called Killer Condom 21:29:22 what's it about? 21:30:02 MorbusIff is now known as Morbus 21:30:11 its about a condom that has teeth. 21:30:24 ah. That's a bit of a design fault 21:30:24 awesom! 21:30:27 emacs has pong! 21:31:03 sbp: http://www.troma.com/clips/killer_condom.html 21:32:08 bizarre 21:38:11 argh. 21:38:15 i am having a horrible day! 21:40:28 no! suse's logrotate script sucks ass! 21:41:03 * AaronSw reads the Debian Weekly News 21:42:46 Wow, ssh support smartcard readers. 21:44:22 public plea: if anyone knows how to get hold of Alan Lomax's recording of Georgia Turner singing House Of The Risin' Sun, please let me - http://purl.org/net/sbp/ - know 21:44:44 * sbp turns #swhack into a want ads forum 21:44:54 convert it to rdf and use the plex ;) 21:45:11 how do I generate SSH host keys? 21:45:13 well, I can't find it on Google etc. 21:45:23 .google generate SSH host keys 21:45:24 generate SSH host keys: http://www.employees.org/~satch/ssh/faq/manpages/ssh-keygen1_man.html 21:45:35 ta da 21:45:54 it doesn't say how, tho! 21:46:20 aha http://www.lbl.gov/ITSD/CIS/faqs/UNIX_Faq/18.html 21:48:17 AaronSw, i got some links for you if you need them, on ssh. 21:48:32 I'm trying to resolve this error: 21:48:33 Disabling protocol version 1. Could not load host key 21:48:40 but I do appear to have a host key 21:49:05 and that host key is pointed to in your sshd config file? 21:49:22 if so, it may be that the host key was built with des, and that was like an ssh2 thingy, i think. 21:49:32 anyways: i found this crap insanely helpful: http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ssh/ 21:49:51 ah, it isn't in the config file 21:50:05 thanks for the link! 21:50:18 np. 21:51:29 interesting: http://houseoftherisingsunbnb.com/song.htm 21:52:03 sbp: did you ever peruse my bookmark file at all? 21:52:25 of course 21:52:34 what'd you think? 21:52:49 once I started browsing, I found all sorts of odd crap 21:53:03 :) 21:53:51 Gotta run 21:56:31 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 21:59:54 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 22:01:19 AaronSw: http://www.zope.org/Members/paessler/ie-booster 22:01:53 windows only, eh? 22:02:07 i think so, yea. 22:02:53 hmm, ssh is going really wonky on me. 22:03:11 if I simply telnet to it from localhost i get the version num immediately. 22:03:14 there are just some parts of ssh that i'm horrific at. 22:03:27 from a machine in california, i get the version num 10 seconds after i connect 22:03:31 and from my house i simply timeout 22:03:44 is your house firewalled? 22:03:54 i'm behind a nat box 22:04:10 but I can ssh to other machines just fine. 22:04:29 i dunno. i'm horrible at this. 22:05:19 where does ssh log to? 22:05:24 sshd, that is 22:05:51 hmm, just syslog it seems 22:06:38 right. 22:06:48 you can start the daemon with progressive -v's to get debugging for one session only. 22:08:56 aha! Jan 30 16:10:15 vorpal sshd[22241]: warning: /etc/hosts.deny, line 15: can't verify hostname: gethostbyname(12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) failed 22:09:24 stupid ATT 22:09:28 heh heh 22:09:34 .dns 12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com 22:09:34 12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com - error: host not found 22:09:54 hello 22:10:05 hey there 22:10:22 been playing my friend's bass 22:10:26 our show is gonna rock so much 22:10:46 awesome! 22:10:57 you should put mp3s on your weblog :) 22:11:09 we don't have any yet 22:11:10 but I will 22:11:26 it's not really my type of music 22:11:29 that we play, heh 22:11:43 lead guitar is much inspired from black sabbath 22:13:15 hmm 22:13:49 do you want me to subclass that code i gave you yesterday? 22:14:06 no, i did it. i need to upload it to cvs. 22:14:09 ok 22:14:32 AaronSw: did you hear att was trying to force turnoff nat? 22:14:40 wha?! 22:14:48 http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/30.att.php 22:15:05 i heard about it yesterday, and then when you told me you had nat, i hunted around... 22:15:15 also: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.broadband.php 22:16:12 oh, they just won't support it. they've always been that way 22:20:11 sbp, you around? 22:20:20 memepool just liked to purl. 22:20:26 er, they linked on monday, rather. 22:20:28 ooh emacs21 is cool 22:20:47 hmm 22:20:50 I use jedit 22:20:51 and vim 22:20:58 pff 22:21:29 their example url is stupid 22:21:30 AaronSw, you got linked on webseitz. 22:21:37 ooh! 22:23:01 oh, you mean threadsML? 22:23:16 no, further down. 22:23:19 schoolyard subversion. 22:25:15 ah 22:25:58 what is up with threadsML? 22:26:07 lack of movement 22:26:36 argh, i dunno who to hate more: ssh or att 22:26:56 att, they're clueless. ssh just sucks for you cos we're dumb 22:27:11 yeah, but there should be an unsuck button 22:29:52 why does emacs depend on xlibs? 22:29:59 yahoo porn! http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.broadband.php 22:30:06 http://it.news.yahoo.com/020107/107/1ogza.html 22:30:25 sbp, you around? 22:30:27 Uh huh 22:31:22 AaronSw: because it uses X, presumably 22:31:44 it'd be sort of nice to get a non-x version. hmmph 22:32:22 x should be optional or recommended or something 22:32:27 emacs works just fine in the command line 22:32:45 * sbp browses through Memepool, and finds the reference 22:39:10 wow. readproctitle is, ehm, interesting. 22:39:36 hmm? 22:39:45 http://cr.yp.to/daemontools/readproctitle.html 22:41:30 heh:- 22:41:31 [[[ 22:41:39 ACKS: Sergey made up this example. 22:41:40 [...] 22:41:44 or... hmm... that's not quite the same... 22:41:45 maybe Brian made up this example. Anyway... 22:41:45 I got the gist of the test case from 22:41:45 somebody else. 22:41:46 ]]] 22:41:53 - DanC, www-rdf-logic 22:42:18 heh 22:42:38 mid:1012410239.17946.42.camel@dirk 22:44:21 DanC must use a really small text-formatting-width 22:44:45 Hmm... actually, it's quite inconsistently formatted: perhaps he does it by hand 22:45:36 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 22:45:56 he's probably thinking: well, 80 characters can't be that long. 22:48:41 heh, heh 22:49:00 at least he doesn't count when he's typing 22:54:38 Knuth: "I have been a happy man ever since January 1, 1990, when I no longer had an email address. I'd used email since about 1975, and it seems to me that 15 years of email is plenty for one lifetime." 22:54:49 heh 22:54:57 Donald Knuth, I presume? 22:55:03 Yeah. 22:55:14 "Email is a wonderful thing for people whose role in life is to be on top of things. But not for me; my role is to be on the bottom of things. What I do takes long hours of studying and uninterruptible concentration. I try to learn certain areas of computer science exhaustively; then I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study." 22:55:35 * sbp finds http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html 22:59:14 that reminds me 22:59:18 I need to read TAOCP 22:59:30 I have the first two volumes sitting here 23:05:32 Hmm, BoingBoing is buying google ads 23:11:28 BenSw|asleep is now known as BenSw 23:11:46 wb, Ben 23:13:05 Morbus (~Morbus@s90.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 23:13:11 wb, Morbus 23:13:37 thankk. 23:14:02 np 23:17:07 heh, heh: "which makes it almost impossible for the strap to fall off" - http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/01/30.html#a277 23:17:07 ain't it the truth 23:17:13 http://archive.develooper.com/beginners@perl.org/msg18893.html 23:17:14 bah 23:17:18 I solved that problem by playing sitting down 23:25:57 heh: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_508707.html?menu=news.quirkies 2002-01-31.txt0100644000014300000000000012063507426314761011700 0ustar nobodyroot00:03:03 muse (~womaniac@a24b31n89client250.hawaii.rr.com) has joined #swhack 00:03:16 hello 00:03:59 inspire me! 00:07:13 hehe.. breathe 00:10:49 heh, heh 00:11:08 BTW, this is a publically archived channel - all stuff here goes up to the Web instantly 00:11:23 to say something off-log, prefix your comments with "# " 00:11:36 and welcome 00:12:08 that would do it.. ugh.. then I have to remember how to tell him to reset all that.. Maybe they were messing with the internet settings... 00:12:15 muse has left #swhack 00:12:32 um... 00:12:46 * AaronSw giggles 00:18:23 huh? 00:18:35 heheh. weirdo. 00:18:41 i dunno, but he wasn't very inspiring. 00:19:43 nope. Poor show 00:20:06 (s)he should sit in the classical pose for a while 00:20:42 oh yes. then it'd be retrospective, 00:22:12 heh: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/5847 00:23:38 heh! 00:29:29 this ERT conference is becoming quite bizarre:- 00:29:30 yes, i'm actually a frog. 00:29:40 * Morbus sends wendy a kiss. 00:29:56 .time 00:29:56 2002/01/31 00:31:34.8475 Universal 00:29:58 heh, heh 00:38:55 xena has quit () 00:39:02 wheeee! 00:39:06 AaronSw's a jerk! 00:39:13 sbp ate his father! 00:39:21 morbus likes dead people! 00:39:21 umm, logger is still here 00:39:22 whoOoo! 00:39:31 logster that is 00:39:33 oh. i forgot that this wasn't #sbp. 00:39:35 heh. 00:39:37 heh 00:40:00 lol. man, that's funny 00:40:07 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 00:43:39 lol! 00:43:49 :) 00:48:26 laters: dinner 00:48:35 bless ya 01:06:27 opinions about HTTP extensions tend to Vary 01:06:27 wow, that was awful. Sorry 01:06:28 aaargh! 01:14:09 lol 01:14:10 GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 01:14:32 hey GabeW 01:14:41 hey AaronSw 01:17:47 hey GabeW and AaronSw 01:17:57 hey sbp GabeW and AaronSw 01:18:37 hey Morbus 01:18:40 hey Morbus sbp AaronSw 01:21:21 http://www.yourrevolutionisbanned.com/ 01:21:32 Powerful. 01:22:34 good news 01:22:45 What? 01:22:51 it got banned 01:23:16 Why's that good news? [I think I know the answer, but for the record...] 01:23:29 @ http://www.yourrevolutionisbanned.com/ 01:23:39 the Website blurted music at me => I don't like the Website or anything affiliated with it 01:23:41 A: http://www.yourrevolutionisbanned.com/ from AaronSw 01:23:51 it blurted music at you? 01:24:05 i guess it doesn't lik eme. 01:24:16 it doesn't seem to like me either! 01:24:39 A:|"Your revoluition will not happen between these thighs" banned by the FCC 01:24:41 titled item A 01:24:44 what did you think that the answer was? 01:24:49 A::via [MonkeyFist|http://monkeyfist.com/DailyChurn/] 01:24:50 commented item A 01:24:59 I thought it was that they'd get a lot of publicity because of it. 01:25:21 * AaronSw gets it off of AG 01:25:43 A::There's [a New York Times article|http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/30/arts/30STAT.html] on her suit against the FCC. 01:25:45 commented item A 01:25:48 http://www.bigfoot4x4.com/ 01:25:50 Powerful 01:25:54 hehehehehe 01:26:18 ListOfReasonsWhyYourRevBeingBannedIsGood.append("they'll get a lot of publicity because of it") 01:26:38 yeah, but I'm having a hard time seeing this being obscene 01:27:02 why did they ban it? 01:27:13 It was supposedly "indecent". 01:27:57 from the complaint: 8. The rap song "Your Revolution" contains unmistakable patently offensive sexual 01:27:57 references 01:28:02 heh! 01:28:15 perhaps I've been desensitized, but I've heard a lot worse 01:28:19 considering the entire song, the sexual references appear to be 01:28:19 designed to pander and shock and are patently offensive 01:28:35 and anyway, look at all the cool stuff that was banned in the past for being "indecent" 01:28:45 and who the fuck are they to say what's indecent or not? 01:28:51 what an absolute pile of bollocks 01:29:25 but who cares 01:29:29 it actually seems rather arbitrary that this would be censored but not some of the pop songs mentioned in her song 01:29:55 tansaku2 (~sam@n145-061.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:31:12 how on earth do they qualify "indecent"? The ruling doesn't say 01:31:30 """18 U.S.C.? 1464 provides criminal penalties for anyone who "utters any obscene, indecent or 01:31:30 profane language by means of radio communication." 01:31:31 """ 01:31:47 yeah, its up to common law and regulatory procedures 01:31:55 Pff 01:32:14 I snort in contention at their arbitrary facism 01:32:34 hey, at least we have a first amendment to point at, you backwater briton 01:33:19 hehe 01:33:23 heh, heh. We have a Bill of Rights 01:33:29 you do? 01:33:45 what's it protect? marmite? 01:33:51 dya know the Clash song "Know Your Rights?" 01:33:53 Mwahahaha! 01:34:10 what a great song 01:34:15 one of my favorite clash songs 01:34:37 "You have the right.. to free speech.. just as long as your not dumb enough to actually try it!" 01:34:50 heh: """The Commission has defined indecent speech as language that, in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as measured by contemporary community standards""" 01:35:06 comical 01:35:14 right - there is a US Sup Ct decision - the Miller case - which created that standard 01:35:34 almost as funny as the CDA. 01:35:53 well, miller made the rules we've lived by for a while 01:36:09 the beer maker? 01:36:25 uh, no 01:37:37 http://www.adultweblaw.com/laws/obscene.htm 01:39:13 Edd: "As if the language isn't being ruined enough by such deplorable tendencies as using the word "enterprise" as an adjective, XML acronym factories (otherwise known as standards organization committees) are doing their best to further pollute our lexicon." 01:39:32 heh 01:39:59 "OASIS happily announced that the first, undoubtedly dynamic, action of the brand new OASIS WSCM TC was ... to change its name to the OASIS WSIA TC." 01:40:32 heh! 01:41:46 wonderful: """In its infinite wisdom, the Supreme Court has decided that the public interest is best served if "obscenity" is not protected by the 1st Amendment. Pornography is protected, but obscenity is not - it's anyone's guess what divides the two categories.""" 01:41:51 from Gabe's reference 01:42:29 thats not entirely true, actually... 01:43:27 what is the truth, then? 01:44:05 its a bunch of balancing that goes on 01:44:12 Morbus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01:44:36 not all speech is protected, some is protected, but barely, and whats left over is protected but "time place and manner" restrictions can be imposed 01:45:31 * AaronSw remembers GabeW is a lawyer. 01:45:42 not a lawyer -- i can get in trouble for saying that 01:45:45 I never took the bar 01:45:48 Well, he went to law school. 01:46:02 and I have refused the concept of paying the cal state bar to call myself a laywer 01:46:10 Indeed. The bar is stupid. 01:46:22 but yeah, in general, i have a lawyer's training 01:47:15 http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/flwilks.htm 01:47:19 That looks a little better 01:47:22 a little dated 01:49:10 i actually think the bar isn't stupid - its just that I shouldn't have to pay them money on a regular basis (or at least not that much money) 01:49:34 I don't care that much actually - its not a big deal 01:50:29 it's odd: politically and socially, I feel that we're still living in the dark ages 01:53:39 when a nation can't decide "obcsenity who really cares - propoganda all is phony", you have to raise an eyebrow 01:54:38 er, that is, "obscenity, who really cares? Propaganda all is phony" 01:54:44 "While money doesn't talk, it swears Obscenity, who really cares Propaganda, 01:54:44 all is phony." 01:55:02 well, it depends on how you listen to it, I suppose 01:55:23 I think there's a full stop after "swears" 01:55:33 yeah, that got broken off in my paste. 01:55:38 ah 01:55:38 it's a line break, not a full stop 01:55:52 """ 01:55:53 While money doesn't talk, it swears 01:55:53 Obscenity, who really cares 01:55:53 Propaganda, all is phony. 01:55:53 """ 01:55:59 perfect 01:57:20 * sbp plays the song 01:57:29 * AaronSw too 01:59:02 really a great song. http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/itsalright.html 01:59:10 indeed 02:00:02 I still remember getting the album - I had been working back from Blonde On Blonde 02:00:47 "the" film is wonderful too. I love the part where he plays "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" to the guy who had just written a song of his own 02:08:57 * sbp reads through http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/hess1.htm trying to make sense of it all 02:10:29 it starts of quite sensibly patriotic, then adds in the occasional "do as we say!" phrase, and finally degrades itself to... well... 02:11:54 Aaron: perhaps you're right about recording history. If you don't record where things went disasterously wrong, how can you prevent them from ever happening again? 02:12:05 indeed. 02:12:43 I was just saying that I like writing in logged IRC channels because my work is less likely to get lost when a stupid web site rejects it because it's missing an abstract. 02:14:17 wow... it's only 68 years since that was broadcast to a million Germans. And thigns like that still go no today, although not on that scale... 02:14:25 missing an abstract: heh 02:14:53 yeah, #swhack is rather useful 02:17:48 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 02:20:16 SeanP (~sean@m902-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:20:23 there are two of you. 02:24:58 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m902-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 02:25:04 not any more 02:25:06 SeanP is now known as sbp 02:25:19 Morbus (~Morbus@63.173.138.128) has joined #swhack 02:25:35 * sbp was reading more propaganda... mind-bendingly awful stuff 02:25:42 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 02:25:53 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 02:25:54 sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:26:07 SeanP (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 02:26:15 SeanP is now known as sbp 02:27:03 when Robert Ley died, I hope he knew that everything that he campaigned for - all that evil - lay in ruin 02:27:26 oh shoot. 02:28:32 what? 02:29:07 I can no longer connect to vorpal. 02:29:17 really? 02:29:32 SSH, you mean? 02:29:46 yeah, i must have broken it when I was messing with it. 02:31:36 Hmm, seems email is broken too. 02:41:40 sigh, i'm not really sure how to handle multiple threads in amphetadesk, without writing a lot of os specific code. 02:44:01 you're working on Amphy again? 02:44:13 well, i'm thinking about it. 02:44:27 my main problem is i don't want to do seperate non-GUI code for win/lin/mac. 02:44:40 and if i want to do multithreaded crap, I'd have to. 02:50:41 anyone know the common amount of connections opened to the server by a normal IE/NS request for a page? 03:02:03 hmm 03:02:25 Morbus: not ie or netscpae, i know opera likes to open tons of them, and I think for a while ie and nestcape only did one at a time 03:21:42 Morbus, Python has cross-platform threading built in. :-) 03:22:17 heh, heh 03:22:25 port Amphy to Python! 03:22:27 do it, do it! 03:22:29 phhhbbb 03:22:33 :-) 03:22:55 there's even py2exe, so you can't beg off by saying that people need to install Python 03:23:09 i'd help out with it 03:23:13 me too 03:23:34 I think, earlier todya, i was passing out 03:23:43 I kept loosing conciousness and waking up in different parts of the house 03:23:44 NOT fun 03:23:46 * AaronSw watches "The Secret Life of the Brain: The Teenage Brain" 03:23:48 eek 03:24:02 what do you think caused that 03:24:03 ? 03:24:04 eek! 03:24:13 I don't know 03:24:16 I might be sick 03:24:27 so I did like 1/2 of my homework and I've been playing the guitar for a while now 03:24:29 you should go to a doctor, or something 03:24:31 not sure what that has to do with anything 03:24:41 perhaps homework is causing it 03:24:41 but I am gonna wake up early tommorow and do homework 03:24:44 going to bed in a few minutes 03:24:48 I think it was the homework 03:24:49 you might be able to get a note for it 03:24:53 reading about railroads and the trusts 03:24:53 feel better 03:25:17 I feel better now, if that was a question 03:25:18 :) 03:25:20 man, I need an MP3 player 03:25:29 i tried to go running but I felt like I wasn't running straight 03:25:30 I think it was a command 03:25:31 which wasn't cool 03:25:38 so I stopped 03:25:45 you sound pretty ill, J 03:25:51 but I'm not, is the thing 03:25:52 I dunno 03:26:06 fuck, I hope I don't have separate personalities that are fleshing themselves out 03:26:07 perhaps it's stress 03:26:09 :) 03:26:11 lol 03:26:22 I was sweaty when I woke up each time 03:26:24 * AaronSw is watching TV about multiple personalities 03:26:28 but one time i feel asleep on the couch 03:26:36 next thing i remember I'm in the bathroom takin a crap 03:26:39 no idea how I got there 03:26:48 erm... 03:27:03 yeah 03:27:04 perhaps you sleepcrap 03:27:15 yeah 03:27:16 maybe 03:27:48 * sbp seems to coin a lot of terms 03:27:53 I wish I could find my tuner 03:27:55 for my bass 03:27:59 Pff, tuner? 03:28:06 can't you tune by ear, or tune to a song? 03:28:10 dammit. can't get this crap ass multiplexing working 03:28:10 no 03:28:15 it's not really my bass, it's my friends 03:28:18 and I just borrowed it 03:28:26 I'm not a bass player, so i can't quite tune by ear 03:28:36 and tuning to a song is hard when you're playing w/o an amp 03:28:40 well, it's just a guitar, but one octave down 03:28:50 play the song softly :-0 03:28:52 :-) 03:28:59 well, when I add the new strings tommorow I'll worry about tuning it 03:29:05 turn the house upside down and find that darned tuner 03:29:26 the only time I use a tuner... well, I don't anymore 03:29:35 you play guitar or bass? 03:29:39 guitar 03:29:48 ok 03:29:50 I can tune guitar by ear 03:30:05 bass is missing it's bottom string 03:30:12 ? 03:30:19 I dunno where it went 03:30:28 perhaps it exploded 03:30:46 yeah 03:30:47 perhaps 03:30:55 bass strings are expensive, like 30 bucks for a set 03:30:57 as I found out 03:31:11 you could always tune it half way up the fretboard, and then play it aginst the guitar 03:31:24 just get soemone to twang your guitar for you, and use a harmonic on the bass 03:31:39 yeah 03:31:45 the tuner is in sight somewhere 03:31:47 I'll find it 03:31:56 and when I do I'm painting that motha-fucker orange 03:31:59 I always loose it 03:32:22 put a little whistle-activated smoke canister on it 03:32:29 yeah 03:32:34 or tie it to a part of your body 03:32:39 or one of htose things for when you loose a tv remote 03:32:55 loose? 03:32:59 lose* 03:33:00 AaronSw: do you still help out on peerkat? 03:33:02 :-) 03:33:09 not really 03:35:10 Gotta run 03:38:21 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 03:40:19 GabeW2 (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 03:40:29 GabeW2 has left #swhack 03:40:42 GabeW2 (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 03:41:28 .e deltab 03:43:02 google is deltab's webpage 03:44:06 I want to email him to get on cvs 03:44:30 deltab@osian.net 03:45:21 ok 03:45:29 now to go to sleep before I pass out again, or whatever was going on 03:46:12 c'ya 03:47:00 * jeremiah is away: passed out 03:56:16 GabeW has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:57:03 GabeW2 is now known as GabeW 04:34:29 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 05:07:45 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 05:07:49 .f2c -16 05:07:49 -16.0°F = -26.6666666667°C 05:07:56 xena's broken 05:08:00 hm? 05:08:03 nooo 05:08:15 .google aaron 05:08:16 aaron: http://www.aaronsw.com 05:09:26 celcius = ( fahrenheit - 32 ) * ( 5.0 / 9.0 ) 05:09:30 is the code 05:10:13 which is indeed correct 05:10:21 .f2c 75 05:10:21 75.0°F = 23.8888888889°C 05:10:29 it's just not doing that :) 05:10:40 .py ( -16 -32 ) * (5.0/9.0) 05:10:40 -26.666666666666668 05:11:51 hm 05:12:37 anyway. hi and bye 05:12:43 rillian has quit ("off to the store") 05:13:23 oh, i think the 5.0 and the 9.0 are reversed 05:13:55 .rehash 05:14:00 .f2c 75 05:14:00 75.0°F = 77.4°C 05:14:14 .f2c -16 05:14:14 -16.0°F = -86.4°C 05:17:39 no, that doesn't seem to be right 05:17:52 .f2c 212 05:17:53 212.0°F = 324.0°C 05:17:59 indeed 05:18:05 .f2c 100 05:18:05 100.0°F = 122.4°C 05:18:20 what is the correct code? 05:18:44 .rehash 05:18:48 .f2c 100 05:18:48 100.0°F = 37.7777777778°C 05:19:09 .f2c 98.6 05:19:10 98.6°F = 37.0°C 05:19:18 hm, that's right. 05:19:27 .f2c 212 05:19:27 212.0°F = 100.0°C 05:19:31 .c2f 100 05:19:31 100.0°C = 212.0°F 05:19:39 .f2c -16 05:19:39 -16.0°F = -26.6666666667°C 05:19:41 .f2c 32 05:19:41 32.0°F = 0.0°C 05:19:57 why'd rillian think -26.6666666667°C was wrong then? 05:20:10 BenSw is now known as BenSw|asleep 05:22:04 a bug 05:22:12 in rillian :-) 05:22:16 heh 05:35:08 Bill Gates: "We must lead the industry to a whole new level of Trustworthiness in computing." 05:35:26 - http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/stories/storyReader$155 05:36:02 I mean, just the word Trustworthiness is funny, let alone who it's coming from. 05:37:36 Oh, this just takes the cake: "We have done a great job of having teams work around the clock to deliver security fixes for any problems that arise. Our responsiveness has been unmatched -- but as an industry leader we can and must do better." 06:12:30 chumpster has quit (devlin.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:30:43 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:32:25 tansaku2 (~sam@n145-061.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:34:55 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 09:04:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:48:52 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 14:35:23 Hey anyone else here trying Coccinella - it's a a lot of fun! 14:35:27 http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben/ 14:36:11 holy poo, this looks good. 14:36:40 ah. no tcl on this box. 14:37:09 It actually works! 14:37:48 Shame, save it for another time, though 14:46:02 w00t!\ 14:46:12 1 foot of snow! no school! 14:46:14 .weather2 highland park, il 14:46:20 .weather 60035 14:46:23 no weather stations found for Highland Park 14:46:33 .weather chicago 14:46:34 several possible locations found: Chicago / West Chicago, Dupage Airport (United States), Chicago / Waukegan, Waukegan Regional Airport (United States), Chicago Weather Service Forecast Office (United States), Chicago / Meigs (United States), Little Chicago (Canada), Port Chicago (United States), Chicago / Calumet Coast Guard Station (United States), Chicago / Wheeling, Pal-Waukee Airport (United 14:46:35 States), Chicago, Chicago-O'Hare International Airport (United States), Chicago, Chicago Midway Airport (United States), Chicago Nexrad (United States) 14:46:55 .weather chicago, illinois 14:46:55 no weather stations found for chicago, illinois 14:47:12 .weather evanston 14:47:39 Hey, that's great 14:47:52 [ Evanston, Evanston-Uninta County Burns Field, United States ] : | temperature -16° C | humidity 83% | dewpoint -18° C | wind 230 | visibility 10 mile(s) | pressure 1019 millibars | conditions overcast 14:48:22 .weather heathrow 14:49:25 [ London / Heathrow Airport, United Kingdom ] : | temperature 10° C | humidity 66% | dewpoint 5° C | wind None | visibility greater than 7 mile(s) | pressure 1011 millibars | conditions mostly cloudy 14:52:58 AaronSw has changed the topic to: SNOW DAY! 14:54:49 write up a contract for them." 14:58:02 don't know how my weblog progress is going though. haven't heard back from nancu 14:58:04 nancy, rather. 15:02:26 Morbus: is Disobey not your current log? 15:03:39 disobey would remain a culture log, because the audience for disobey is like that. they're not very tech based. my ORA weblog would be where I can talk tech and not lose anyone :) 15:03:57 on a side note, hi. i don't know you :) 15:05:22 No good reason 15:05:29 doid: cool. i'll take a look. 15:05:32 I was going to make another on log comment 15:05:46 About being an amphetadesk user some time ago 15:05:57 heh, really? kickass 15:06:21 # Yeah, hi, I have a weblog doid.com and I met Aaron when he was in London 15:06:21 Yeah, fun, but I was using Rdaio and Headline Viewer 15:06:24 :-) 15:06:43 ah, of the three, you stuck with Radio? 15:06:53 guess so 15:06:56 i've been, within the past few days, been getting back into ampheta. 15:07:02 stuch being the operative word 15:07:02 i think it had to do with my swhack rejoinings. 15:07:07 stuck 15:07:44 morbus, can ampheta read my mySubscriptions.opml file? 15:07:44 Back in couple 15:08:33 AaronSw: nope. there's one attribute that i sillily made "required" in ampheta, which breaks the intergration, since RU doesn't use it. 15:08:46 you could hack a 2-5 line in a couple of seconds, i bet. 15:08:47 heh 15:08:50 ok 15:09:00 ampheta needs a filename attr for each outline. 15:09:31 that's all, really. i've been using char(20).xml 15:09:43 based on the title. 15:09:48 Hmmph, I must have been deleted my copy. Which version should I grab? 15:09:58 .92 is the latest, but the cvs is stable. 15:10:12 i think .92 is the latest. 15:10:14 its been so long. 15:10:37 yeah, 92. 15:10:45 ok, i'll grab CVS. 15:10:58 i think the cvs is stable. 15:11:00 yeah, it has to be. 15:11:09 i sent it to some other guy a while back 15:11:23 ok 15:11:50 the CHANGELOG has the new stuff from 92 to 93. nothing major, i don't think. 15:11:57 (the cvs being 93) 15:14:24 ah, works beautifully 15:15:40 Downloading amphetadeskdocumenta.xml - local copy doesn't exist. 15:15:40 AmphetaDesk could not reach the site within 10 seconds. 15:15:54 do i just ^C to quit? 15:19:28 through linux, yeah. 15:19:40 speaking of which, that amph.xml file comes from your sYP you know. 15:19:52 yeah, i know :) 15:19:57 fix it! 15:20:05 oh... 15:20:12 hah, you're aggregator is broken! 15:20:22 probably. what's up? 15:20:23 can't you even follow a stupid redirect? 15:20:26 uh, it does. 15:20:56 check out WWW.pl 15:21:00 hmm 15:21:20 its in get. first 20/30 lines. can't miss it. 15:21:36 hm, maybe it is broken... 15:21:48 its been working before. 15:22:14 no, it's just slow. odd 15:22:30 amph is slow, or the redirects are? 15:22:37 the redirect was. 15:22:39 it'll time out after 10, no matter the redirects. 15:30:25 hmm, i must have killed it... 15:30:38 hmm? 15:31:11 Morbus, what do you mean by XML::Syndication 15:31:58 Read a collection of feeds? 15:32:10 XML::RSS is a perl module that reads/writes RSS. 15:32:25 I'd like to make a more generic XML::Syndication which would include support for ScriptingNews, ocs, and so forth. 15:32:38 Oh 15:33:07 Don't know too much about perk 15:33:12 err perl 15:33:19 I get: Argument "Updates to http://www.blanu.net/" isn't numeric in values at lib/Misce 15:33:19 llaneous.pl line 435. 15:33:19 Bad index while coercing array into hash at lib/Miscellaneous.pl line 435. 15:33:58 what'd you do? 15:34:00 oh, fixed it -- never mind 15:34:13 i left out a filename attrib 15:34:50 ah. so after adding them, its working? 15:34:55 yep 15:34:58 cool. 15:35:14 kearney was supposed to contribute some code to autogenerate filenames for those missing, but he never did. 15:35:19 it's not too hard, just never got around to it. 15:41:46 lol: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100950/2002/01/29.html#a131 15:44:02 hehhehehe 15:44:05 Hehe. Do you use Stapler with Radio, Aaron? 15:44:17 No. 15:44:54 It makes feeds, well, though 15:46:28 .google markpasc code stapler 15:46:30 markpasc code stapler: http://markpasc.home.mindspring.com/code/stapler 15:48:04 hey! Ampheta is missing a delete button. 15:48:44 how does it know what i've read and what i haven't? 15:48:47 200 Not Found 15:48:55 AaronSw: hold on. 15:49:03 deltab, where? 15:49:20 the code stapler URL 15:49:32 oh, heh 15:49:46 earthlink sucks 15:50:11 Oops - http://markpasc.org/code/stapler/ 15:50:26 calling morbus@disobey.com, ampheta has errors to report. 15:51:52 it couldn't find agressive-upstream.png nor theme-mod.png 15:53:03 ok, time to go play in the snow. 15:53:18 have fun 15:56:30 off to shave 15:56:50 ok. 15:57:01 AaronSw: the delete button was never added because it doesn't scale. 15:57:10 if you have 1000 entries, clicking 990 of them is insane. 15:57:17 it just wasn't a good solution to the problem. 15:57:27 i have some ideas on how to do that, and they're in the TODO in the CVS. 15:57:55 as for the ampheta error thing, more than likely, the rss feed used that image file with a relative URL as opposed to a absolute, so the ampheta webserver is trying to serve the image 16:01:52 GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 16:02:03 hey GabeW 16:02:07 hey 16:04:16 Morbus, ypu simply leave the delete button checked by default 16:04:43 then there's no scaling problem 16:04:45 hey GabeW 16:04:45 pfff, that's stupid. what if i forget to uncheck one, out of 1000 entries, that i wanted to keep? 16:04:55 suddently, its gone, and i have to run around trying to bring itbackl 16:05:00 so how does it work now? 16:05:05 it doesnt. 16:05:07 i just lose entries randomly? 16:05:09 it always displays the whole thing. 16:05:12 great! so much better. 16:05:18 16:05:26 the "keep all checked" thing works beautifully in Radio. 16:05:45 what's that do? 16:05:54 you just uncheck the ones you want to keep. 16:05:55 i coulda swore we got in this argument before 16:06:20 heh. i guess i better stick with radio then. i don't wanna have to read thru 1000 entries every day to find what's new. 16:06:35 heh, heh. 16:07:00 amphetadesk is flawed in a number of places, i agree. 16:07:12 but i'm starting work on it again. mainly a new framework for better updating (ala the root.updates from RU). 16:07:14 wow, this is an awesome group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fractal-world/ 16:07:21 look at those beautiful fractals 16:07:53 Morbus, cool. maybe i can help out. 16:08:03 The document you requested is temporarily unavailable because this group has exceeded its download limit. Please try again later. 16:08:07 bastard. 16:08:10 stop downloading! 16:08:19 heh. 16:08:25 you wanna code perl? what the hell is wrong with you1 16:08:33 i didn't say i'd help code! 16:08:35 right now, i'm really going through and turning everything into a module. 16:08:36 i'll help complain! 16:08:40 ah. ok. cool :) 16:08:47 graphics still work for me. 16:08:58 @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fractal-world/ 16:08:58 the side effect of this is that I can release a wrapper binary, and pure perl text. 16:09:11 yeah, you've told me three times now. 16:09:18 hey, you complain, i reiterate. 16:09:20 hmm, where's chumpster? 16:09:48 whistle! 16:09:49 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 16:09:52 WTF?! SOMEONE STOLE MY MOTHERFUCKING HILIGHTER! WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHAINSAW! 16:09:52 @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fractal-world/ 16:09:55 B: Yahoo! Groups : fractal-world from AaronSw 16:10:12 B:|fractal-world: A forum dedicated to the display of fractal art and discussions on related issues. 16:10:13 titled item B 16:10:31 B::These are the most beautiful fractals I have ever seen. They're awesome! 16:10:33 commented item B 16:11:01 B::I really love [glowne|http://attach2.groups.yahoo.com/v1/AGpZPDJ9E7T3zgVyMgnYJy6f2cLsWD-h-qhcu_QZFiZPeQtgWqVMFBeorCxVqwH_UdPoTft9wnV05gIeKQilgV3X7qF4ffnnJf8uBw/glowne.jpg]. 16:11:04 commented item B 16:11:12 gotta run -- going to the server room. 16:11:27 document not found on that glowne 16:11:30 ack, download limit 16:13:47 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:17:24 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:24:11 wmf (~wesley@valentine.felter.org) has joined #swhack 16:24:27 I wasn't in enough channels 16:24:41 heh, yay! 16:24:51 i only have five open, cos i'm at work. gotta be incognito. 16:25:13 heh. only five 16:29:17 hehehe. 16:29:26 AaronSw: didn't think rael knew me: 16:29:33 me: I'm the guy who developed AmphetaDesk 16:29:36 him: I know precisely who you are ;-) 16:29:42 i don' t know if this is good or bad :) 16:29:57 that smiley mocks me, i thinkl 16:31:02 :) 16:32:03 tansaku has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: tansaku2!~sam@n144-141.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp))) 16:32:25 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 16:36:48 wmf! 16:37:03 Morbus, very, very, bad sign. ;-) 16:37:11 hehehehe. 16:37:19 AaronSw! 16:37:21 i mean, he even said "precisely". 16:37:28 like "you're the guy on my dartboard" precisely. 16:37:47 or "you're next on Who's Wants To Be Winer" precisely. 16:37:53 * Morbus shudders. 16:37:54 "Your inferior AmphetaDesk has made Peerkat a failure. You will now die." 16:37:59 lol. 16:38:07 * sbp plays "Leige and Leif" 16:38:09 whaaa? hey, your lack of contributions have made peerkat a failure! 16:38:16 shuddup 16:38:21 mine's ony inferior cos its easier to install :) 16:38:27 exactly! 16:38:29 hey! 16:38:32 hehehe 16:38:37 you're both losers; how about that? 16:38:41 yay! 16:39:40 * AaronSw is in the server room, moving servers off of a DSL line from some company that went bankrupt. 16:39:47 the good news is that i'm moving them on to a t3 16:39:49 sigh, i do get paranoid about what peoiple think about my crap. 16:39:54 heh 16:42:02 geez, it's like a sauna in here. stupid overheating pentiums 16:42:17 heh, heh. Not like those cool Athlons 16:45:35 I need to conserve batter power; later 16:45:39 c'ya 16:45:41 dim the screen 16:45:43 so, Morbus, how's your crap? 16:45:48 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 16:46:13 .google "rael dornfest" amphetadesk 16:46:14 "rael dornfest" amphetadesk: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/messages/2226 16:46:23 I guess I should review the logs a bit 16:46:48 lol @ chainsaw/hilighter conundrum 16:46:52 heh 16:47:58 Hmm... I've been singing Matty Groves all day 16:48:46 I need to conserve batter power; later 16:48:56 I didn't know he played baseball 16:49:01 lol! 16:49:05 yeah, goat, yeah. 16:49:05 you learn something every day :-) 16:50:36 lol 16:56:02 Pff:- 16:56:04 [[[ 16:56:08 Document Unavailable 16:56:08 The document you requested is temporarily unavailable because this group has exceeded its download limit. Please try again later. 16:56:13 ]]] - http://attach2.groups.yahoo.com/v1/AGpZPFbEw8n-1lZ8Y_GsPZvScY1wrqFFe2ZVFcSFdD43WZnV7Z2L8mqyg30LsJx7QGnPO4LKru6jz1EHt-Zm4xvqvoA/migration.jpg 16:56:19 from the fractal group 16:56:52 look out, Aaron: <[...]> Heavy, heavy snowfall up here in Toronto! Yaaay! 16:57:01 might be moving down, you never know :-) 16:57:13 can't you read the topic? 16:57:19 oh 16:57:33 great! did you make another snowman? 17:03:13 not yet 17:03:20 like 5 in. of snow 17:08:57 i think yahoo must be playing cookie games with those attachments 17:09:35 they do 17:09:51 I keep getting "Aren't you meant to be somewhere else?" 17:10:04 heh! 17:18:21 kickass. 17:18:25 my oreilly series got in maccentral. 17:21:08 pointer? 17:24:11 i love daypop. http://www.daypop.com/search?q=apache+osx&t=a 17:24:21 sbp: http://www.daypop.com/search?q=hemenway&t=a 17:27:43 yay! ljundies is back! 17:28:33 Gabe! You the man! 17:28:37 http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=21921615 17:45:10 SeanP (~sean@m399-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:45:35 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m399-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 17:45:36 SeanP is now known as sbp 17:46:31 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 17:46:51 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 17:48:51 SeanP (~sean@m399-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:50:13 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m399-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 17:51:00 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 17:58:50 can we just reproduce the newscientist article in here? 17:58:55 http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/copyleft/copyleftart.jsp 17:59:13 SeanP has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: blargh!~sean@m900-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 18:00:09 That's great news, but I'm off 18:00:16 DoidT has left #swhack 18:08:44 SeanP (~sean@m21-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:22:23 GabeW2 (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 18:22:47 GabeW has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:22:52 GabeW2 is now known as GabeW 18:30:25 * Morbus sings for the sake of doing os. 18:30:29 * Morbus goes to download RU. 18:30:41 does it make a site automatically for you? i just wanna fiddle with the aggregator. 18:30:54 no, wait, that's a stupid question. 18:32:54 yes, it makes a site automatically 18:33:41 really? pfff. 18:33:58 * Morbus whines, but i don't wannan site! 18:36:47 oh come on. 18:36:53 shit, not a good sign. 18:37:01 i installed it, didn't want to fill in the info, so just clicked submit. 18:37:08 and i get "it worked!" and then an error message. 18:38:32 heh, heh 18:39:25 see, if you don't post something to your site, dave gets upset since it screws up his usability ratings 18:39:59 hmm, there's a seanp and an sbp here 18:40:20 .dns free.tibet 18:40:20 free.tibet - error: host not found 18:40:44 hmph 18:40:53 hehehe 18:41:02 prolly does. 18:41:13 xena's not an open root member, i guess 18:41:25 Aaron: dircproxy has gone nuts - again 18:41:28 sbp has quit (Remote closed the connection) 18:41:33 it just boots... oh 18:41:39 what's the error? 18:41:42 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:41:51 wheee! 18:41:53 it just kicks me off: collided with new user, or something 18:41:58 this works without submitting any data. 18:42:09 *** [10054] Connection reset by peer 18:42:18 now you probably have Anonymous Loser's Radio Weblog. 18:42:20 Closing Link: sbp[~sean@63.149.73.20] (Collided with new user) 18:42:31 that's a new one on me 18:42:31 nope, just the coffee cup and "s". 18:42:36 it looks like Radio's Radio Weblog 18:42:40 heh 18:42:49 SeanP, do you mind if I restart dirc? 18:43:05 nope 18:43:14 sbp has quit (Client Quit) 18:44:16 pfff. the prefs screen is one big page flipper. 18:44:21 one pref per one page? insane. 18:44:29 aha, there were two dircs running 18:44:40 sbp, try now 18:44:52 .dns theinfo.org 18:44:52 theinfo.org - 63.149.73.22 18:45:15 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:45:37 it seems to be working 18:45:43 SeanP has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 18:48:01 AaronSw: there's no way in RU to see a list of rss files? like in ampheta? 18:48:20 list of rss files? 18:48:31 oh. that's radio.weblogs.com 18:48:32 like the "Add a Channel" page in ampheta 18:48:44 well, not the most popular ones. 18:48:48 just ones in general. 18:49:01 not to my knowledge. 18:49:07 ah. hmf. 18:52:01 Well, looks like my work here is done. 18:54:41 all limerick flamewar: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=rone.a3amhn%2427kv%241%40ennui.org 18:54:46 via jorn 18:56:35 Gotta run 19:03:17 Wes quoting Gene Kan: "Porn is too hard to find on the Internet today." 19:03:19 Wha? 19:08:48 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 19:09:02 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 19:10:11 Morbus has quit (Client Quit) 19:10:29 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 19:11:32 Morbus has quit (Client Quit) 19:11:46 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 19:18:10 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:21:44 * GabeW is away: lounch 19:21:50 * GabeW is away: lunch 19:24:33 for google: http://logicerror.com/serverGunk 2002-02-01.txt0100644000014300000000000007421407426623657011706 0ustar nobodyroot19:36:29 logster (~swhack-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 19:36:29 topic is: Alright, 'fess up: who borked #swhack? 19:36:29 Users on #swhack: logster rillian GabeW Morbus sbp xena BenSw|asleep deus_x deltab jeremiah AaronSw 19:36:36 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 19:36:58 yup :) 19:37:13 yeah, but I *finally* did the chump syntax right, and no one was around to see it. 19:37:43 I always felt logbots were the wrong way to go 19:37:44 Morbus, you can do it again now. 19:37:46 like services, they should really be done by the server 19:37:57 Yeah, it's apparently on the dancer TODO list. 19:38:02 nifty 19:38:17 @ http://www.movabletype.org/support/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=12&t=246 19:38:23 A: http://www.movabletype.org/support/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=12&t=246 from Morbus 19:38:26 though I suppose having two bots from different machines comparing notes is pretty good 19:38:45 yeah, that'd be good. same for email lists. 19:38:48 althought at the rate xena's developing xena might become OPN services ;) 19:39:26 A:|Report MT as RSS generator? 19:39:27 titled item A 19:39:31 XenaServ 19:39:52 Heh. 19:40:18 Ralph at the W3C was asking me about xena today. 19:40:36 He's got a bot called Zakim that does meeting assistance. 19:40:55 is xena python? 19:41:03 Yep. 19:41:04 yeah, and zope 19:41:36 who coded it? 19:41:52 Killarny and tav 19:50:38 tav did the Zope stuff 19:50:59 Hmm, show on usability on NPR in 10. 19:52:33 no sound card. sigh. 19:54:04 AaronSw: meeting assistance? 19:54:46 Yeah. It takes care of who's on the speaking queue, tracks who's dialed into a telephone conference, mutes and unmutes them as necessary and tracks the agenda of a meeting. 19:55:02 Oh, and you can also have it remind you when discussion runs over set time limits. 19:55:25 voice to text transcription? 19:55:31 I wish. 19:55:32 bah! worthless! 19:56:05 You'd get notes like "we should wreck a nice beach rdf no i'm speaking what huh i'm in control reificaition stop that notes" 19:57:09 lol 19:57:29 AaronSw: so it's plugged into a phone and handles the dialing? 19:57:39 It's plugged into the telecon bridge. 19:58:01 nifty 19:58:27 Yeah, so it keeps track of who's here via caller id. 19:58:35 we (ghostscript people) should really be using something higher tech than the telephone for our development meetings 19:58:56 W3C has done pretty well with telecon bridge + IRC. 19:59:42 Cool. They got Don Norman, Michael Graves and Henry Petrofsky (sp?) on NPR. 20:03:46 [[[ 20:04:02 [15:04] i wrote a story once. 20:04:02 [15:04] called "angel hair pasta". 20:04:11 [15:05] it was about this angel chick on her period. 20:04:19 [15:05] heh. 20:04:19 [15:05] morbus :-o 20:04:20 ]]] 20:04:39 You know, maybe you should have stayed in #sbp after all. ;-) 20:05:06 gassssp! 20:05:25 * Morbus sputters 20:13:11 big paste: don't forget to whip out the comments 20:14:20 Pah. I'll leave them in for character. 20:16:10 character: ah, the olde worlde rustic 'n' rural charm 20:23:03 Morbus: did you ever get that story published? 20:24:49 i had written it for fitshaced.com, where I wrote pieces under the guise of Satan. 20:25:04 i had started a big long history, where Satan was talking about the Elbib, and how he had returned to heaven. 20:25:25 shortly after I started the project, fitshaced.com died/stopped publishing, so the angel hair pasta story (part 3) never got published. 20:25:33 i think i have p1/p2 up somewhere. lemme look for em. 20:25:45 Pff. You should have bunged p3 on disobey.com 20:25:49 that was years ago. they're probably infantile now. 20:26:08 ah: 1: http://disobey.com/collected/morbus_iff/satan_repentant.shtml 20:26:14 2: http://disobey.com/collected/morbus_iff/why_santa_has_a_red_nose.shtml 20:26:21 John Swerdan: "Poor sad Mac, born in a plastic age. A time when the world still thought in beige. Crafted and molded just like a piece of art. An orphan, abandoned. It's enough to break your heart." 20:26:37 - http://wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,50161,00.html 20:27:13 clichic? 20:27:26 yeah, it doesn't exist. but i made it exist. shuddup 20:27:30 the art of being cliched. 20:27:38 hmm. 20:27:48 these are good ideas - i still have the major plotpoints fleshed out in my head 20:27:52 they need to be rewritten though. 20:27:57 heh: "In the early '60s, groups like the Beach Boys sang passionately about surfing and hot rods," he said. "I feel just as strongly about computers." 20:28:10 Gotta run 20:29:15 heh. Satan sez "It's not like I can cook anyways... I just stand there handing out change like I'm some sort of lunch lady. Of course, now I'm $2 richer, but that can't even buy a whore. 20:29:15 " 20:30:34 hmm. you know, these would do well as a diary/weblog. 20:30:54 tes! 20:31:36 guys: 20:31:37 True to his promise, Kevin Hemenway is back by popular demand with 20:31:37 [7]"Apache Web-Serving with Mac OS X, Part 4", an extension to his 20:31:37 original trilogy. He shows us how to turn off automatic index 20:31:37 generation, customise error pages, and configure access control and 20:31:39 authentication. For fans of the late Douglas Adams, he even throws 20:31:41 in a riddle about the "Hitchhiker Guide" at the end of his article. 20:31:43 Carry on Kevin! 20:31:45 from Apache Week #280 20:34:01 awesome 20:34:47 yah. the apache week people are jovial. 20:34:51 that's so cool. 20:37:50 @ http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2002/1/31/pythonnews.html 20:37:52 B: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2002/1/31/pythonnews.html from AaronSw 20:37:59 B:|Cocoa for your Python? 20:37:59 titled item B 20:38:41 B::Discusses [pyobjc|http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/], a Python<->Objective-C Bridge. 20:38:42 commented item B 20:39:35 B::"Originally written for the Next, but abandoned in 1998, pyobjc's code lay dormant until last year, when Majewski picked it up. The pyobjc module is 20:39:35 essentially a Python to Objective-C bridge. It works about the same way the Java bridge works." 20:39:36 commented item B 20:39:44 B::essentially a Python to Objective-C bridge. It works about the same way the Java bridge works." 20:39:46 commented item B 20:41:59 hello 20:42:56 hey there 20:43:55 did you have school today? 20:44:03 well, I guess you had a snow day yesterday, even though you don't go to school 20:44:55 Yeah, school today. 20:46:10 ok 20:46:24 I think I'm gonna go try to zone out and watch tv, I'll probably be on and off the computer 20:46:34 you have anything you'd like me to work on for plex? 20:49:15 i can't think of anything right now. unless you can hunt down Zooko for me ;) 20:49:18 .seen zooko 20:49:18 zooko seen changing nickname to zooko_configuring_linux_kernel ~ 2 day(s) 20 hr(s) 31 min(s) 54 sec(s) ago 20:49:29 is he the network guy? 20:49:33 yeah 20:49:35 .seen zooko_configuring_linux_kernel 20:49:35 zooko seen changing nickname to zooko_configuring_linux_kernel ~ 2 day(s) 20 hr(s) 32 min(s) 11 sec(s) ago 20:50:08 that's sorta an important step eh? 20:50:08 heh 20:50:08 (having a network, that is) 20:50:14 indeed :0 20:50:29 he disappeared to play Ogres and Pixies and never came back. 20:50:32 maybe the ogre ate him. 20:51:00 maybe 20:51:09 I don't play games very much, I've been trying to figure out why 20:51:12 I only play them with friends 20:51:34 Same here. I never play video games. 20:51:46 I play some when I'm hanging out with friends 20:51:50 but only really two player stuff 20:51:59 my interest comes more in writing them 20:52:06 that reminds me, i wanted to screw around with python opengl 20:52:22 Yeah, he and his brother made Ogres vs. Pixies. And he was going to play it with his brother. 20:52:42 that's cool 20:52:54 does it autogenerate stuff for him? 20:52:57 like maps and such 20:53:19 hm? 20:53:48 n/m 20:53:56 I'd like to write games for the gamecub 20:54:01 gamecube* 20:54:13 it looks so fun 20:54:35 what's up with the # 20:54:42 offlog comments. 20:54:46 ohhh, neat 20:55:52 Kearney: "There's no defined format for a generator, however." 20:55:52 False. Ken MacLeod came up with one, and even proposed it as an addition to RSS 0.93. 20:56:14 so, get an acct and post ;) 20:56:21 i'm too lazy 20:56:26 heh, heh. 20:56:31 you can post for me. 20:56:39 have you ever played around with ogl? 20:56:41 k. 20:56:41 it's cool stuff 20:56:46 jeremiah: open gaming license? 20:56:50 sorry, opengl 20:56:53 oh. heh. 20:57:03 must be careful about abbreviating acronyms 20:57:18 well, the o part wasn't really an acrynym 20:57:21 No, only stuff I've really messed with is pygame (python interface to libSDL) and swing. 20:57:36 is there a python interface to swing? 20:57:43 that might be interesting, if swing wasn't so slow 20:57:46 Zooko did it thru Jython. 20:57:49 hmm 20:57:51 But it's rather slow. 20:58:04 might be neat to write a pyswing->qt thingy 20:58:08 but that's for someone with more time than me 20:59:04 I have an urge to drop apple stock, sell my ibook, firewall and desktop, and just have a beautiful g4 w/cinema display sitting here for me 20:59:05 AaronSw: we should probably move this to RSS-DEV. i can throw a comment on the MT board directing people to the archives. 20:59:36 jeremiah, [drool] 20:59:40 Morbus: are you with the w3c too? 20:59:45 nope. 20:59:47 ok 21:00:13 I gave it some thought, and most of the current expanse of the w3c empire doesn't really interest me 21:00:22 but I think the things that it's working on do 21:00:29 jeremiah: my desire is the user, not specs. 21:00:30 I suppose plex is sort of a w3c spinoff 21:00:44 Morbus: elaborate please 21:00:47 The W3C isn't interested in the W3C empire for the most part. 21:00:59 i fight less for specs, than for purpose and intent. 21:01:24 hmm 21:01:48 Sometimes I think the SW team should just break off from the rest of the W3C. 21:01:58 I just found out I fell through on my calc exam 21:02:07 grade average of a 92 and a bad exam pulled me down to a B 21:02:11 the purpose and intent of kearney's thing is to corrupt XML, and the benefits of doing so (syndic8 usage, toolkit fix) do not override them., 21:02:40 this memory sparked by my visit to media.mit.edu, and the realization I'll never work there 21:02:40 heh 21:02:57 Hm? 21:03:12 kerney who? 21:03:13 The Media Lab is a curious place. 21:03:19 .google kearney 21:03:19 kearney: http://www.atkearney.com 21:03:28 .google wkearney99 21:03:28 wkearney99: http://www.ourfavoritesongs.com/users/wkearney99@hotmail.com 21:03:31 .google wkearney 21:03:32 wkearney: http://www.wkearney.com 21:04:03 That's really quite funny. 21:04:07 what is? 21:04:13 those webpages. 21:04:20 "view meta data for this page"? 21:04:27 wkearny is a useless site with metadata 21:04:28 heh 21:04:49 so was yahoo! 21:04:55 hehe 21:05:04 AaronSw: are you one of the kids that pulls 100's in math classes? 21:05:26 the annoying thing is my grade was a 99, but I got a 79 on one test, pulled me down to a 90, but I didn't care because the semester was almost over 21:05:30 and now... fudge 21:05:32 I believe that only happened to me in geomety. 21:05:40 I really don't care though. 21:05:47 well, I know that I know the math 21:05:55 That's good enough, I figure. 21:06:01 yeah 21:06:21 I don't believe in "studying" (cramming). 21:06:27 neither do I 21:06:31 I think what screwed me was trig identities 21:06:36 which is stuff I had to cram on 21:07:05 I haven't come across any math that my brain just can't understand, which is good, it just takes a little work, and I tend to get a much deeper understanding of it than everyone else 21:07:23 my dad said linear algebra screwed him over 21:07:56 AaronSw, do you have that KenM thingy about generator? 21:08:16 yeah... http://webns.net/mvcb/ 21:08:27 Morbus: can I read this stuff? is it a mailing list you'll are referring to? 21:08:31 k. i think i'll try and sound like a moron on rss-dev. 21:08:33 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/2347 21:08:45 and http://www.movabletype.org/support/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=246 21:08:57 ok 21:08:58 .google ken macleod generatorAgent 21:08:58 no results found. 21:09:04 .google generatorAgent 21:09:04 generatorAgent: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-05-27.txt 21:09:13 .google ken macleod generator 21:09:14 ken macleod generator: http://www.perlxml.com/modules/perl-xml-modules.html 21:09:29 oh, and I found out the computer science class 21:09:33 is not worth a technology credit 21:09:42 wha? what is? 21:09:51 so I am going to graduate now with 11 or 12 math credits, and I need to take some dumb CADD class next year for technology 21:10:09 either that or keyboarding 21:10:17 what's CADD? 21:10:24 Computer Aided Drawing and Design 21:10:26 like autocad 21:10:29 3d modelling 21:10:35 oh man, that's really dumb 21:10:42 yeah, i mean, it's a nice idea 21:10:49 but I think learning to use a program is a waste of my time 21:11:24 that and it's what my stepdad does for a living, so i don't like the idea of the school cranking out halfwit cad modellers that'll dilute the job market for my family 21:11:49 AaronSw: that ilrt / rdfig one had it. 21:12:06 I remember that in middle school and lower school they had WPM requirements to graduate. It was crazy, they made kids stay afterschool and type with cloths over their hands. 21:12:29 that's rediculus 21:12:33 We also had a weekly class on how to use the library. 21:12:35 although i am probalbly somewhere near 90 21:13:12 they switched the libraries from command line programs on 386's to a gui program on 233mhz desktops a while ago 21:13:17 and there was no speed gain, because of the nasty gui interface 21:13:18 i'm really fast when i'm typing out my thoughts, but much slower doing the "copy what's on the scren" exercises for keybaording 21:13:46 yeah, I'm that way too, i also suck when I'm trying to think about typing and doing it at the same time, like with this sentence 21:13:51 Yeah, are library has VT220s next to Pentiums running Netscape, and I always use the VT220. 21:14:07 yeah we have a web interface now too 21:14:11 a useless one at that 21:16:09 I thought it was sort of funny that the program for the web interface is named tramp2.exe 21:16:51 karld (~karld@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu) has joined #swhack 21:16:51 http://209.224.5.4/ 21:17:00 hey karl! 21:17:08 god why do i not block these dumbasses on my aim buddy list, it's not anything personal, but I don't care at all about what they're telling me about 21:17:15 hey aaron, what's up 21:17:20 hello karl 21:17:28 @ jeremiah, i stopped using AIM because of that. 21:17:41 err s/@ // 21:17:54 not much. what are you up to these days? 21:18:04 just working, arggh 21:18:05 well, i have people I have to talk with over aim, and a lot of friends on it, but there are some people who just fill the window up with crap 21:18:24 I should code an "ignore" thing into gaim, so that when they message me it won't raise the window, i'll read their messages only when i want to 21:18:26 and i got radio, its cool... 21:20:25 Cool. I didn't know you were a fellow adbuster: http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/flag/debate/popup.html?id=4545 21:21:58 oh yeah, i love that magazine...so cool, so slick, so canadian 21:22:10 Indeed. :-) 21:23:27 aaronsw, how is your new server? 21:23:36 pretty good, thanks. 21:23:51 i gotta move all this stuff on to it, tho. haven't found the time. 21:24:50 where's your radio blog? 21:25:32 Mark Bernstein: "Bill Seitz is working to integrate web logs and ZWiki." Hmm. 21:26:28 http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/ThinkingSpace 21:28:29 * AaronSw makes plans for driver's ed. classes 21:29:21 aaron, you here? 21:29:25 yes 21:29:46 this comment thing in rss 9x... if someone defined an entity in the DOCTYPE, that would still validate right? 21:29:53 regardless if they used the actual entity? 21:30:27 what i'm getting at: if rss 9x can't add a new element, and comments are bad, why not create a dummy entity in the DOCTYLE declaration that is just never used. 21:31:44 Hmm. 21:31:44 am i being dumb? 21:31:59 That's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure how an XML parser could read it. 21:32:24 I think the easiest thing to do is to just strip off the doctype and add the element in. 21:32:32 well, see, this is the thing. 21:32:36 the parser shouldn't haev to read it. 21:32:36 or make it an attribute on the element 21:32:43 well, at least in kearenys argument. 21:32:54 GODDAAAAMMMMIT why does mozilla crash all the time 21:32:58 he's saying there' plenty of reasons why the client SHOULDn't see the data, cos it would cos favoritism. 21:33:09 that's just stupid. 21:33:23 so, if syndic8 is gonna be collecting the data as a preventative toolkit measure, then let kearney have his stupid cake, and let us ignore it. 21:36:49 jeremiah has quit ("Client Exiting") 21:37:55 AaronSw, i'm gonna quote this in an email to rss-dev. 21:38:02 the above, rather. 21:38:33 hmm 21:38:41 might want to tone down the "stupid" comment. :) 21:38:55 heh, i'm just quoting my three "what if" lines. 21:39:05 i already incorporated the remove doctype thing. 21:41:02 AaronSw: DO YOU know of any good URL that would give a quick sample of how to add an element to an inline doctype? 21:41:24 .google xml doctype element 21:41:25 xml doctype element: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/04/14/doctype/&e=921 21:41:47 oop, i meant entity, but thats ok. 21:42:05 an entity are those fun little &xxxx; things, right? 21:42:06 i think the entity idea is _really_ stupid, btw 21:42:09 yeah. 21:42:15 why? 21:42:49 because what's the point? an xml parser can't get at it, it uses obscure features of xml, you're gonna regexp it out anyway... 21:43:06 right. exactly. 21:43:20 it coincides wonderfully with kearney's comment about "clients shouldn't read this". 21:43:21 :) 21:43:30 then why not use a comment? 21:43:40 at least with that you have a rare chance of it being parsed. 21:44:00 and why are you trying to coincide with kearney's stupid ideas anyway? ;) 21:44:02 hehehe. 21:44:08 comments aren't structured though. 21:44:19 so use a PI 21:44:24 unless you consider the and the data inside. 21:44:32 i dunno how to use processing I's. 21:44:45 21:45:17 .google processing instruction xml 21:45:17 processing instruction xml: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-stylesheet 21:47:32 at least those are structured, and required to be processed. 21:53:09 Morbus: "It's easier to shoot my girlfriend then to calmly rationalize with her." 21:53:18 heh, heh. 21:53:30 that Morbus guy is strangely calming to me. 21:54:21 when you talk about generatorAgent, you should link to http://webns.net/mvcb/generatorAgent 21:54:53 as well as, or opposed to? 21:55:10 just give it as the URL for what he's talking about. 21:55:32 because Ken asked what URI he should use for it, and i offered to host it. 21:55:50 "See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-05-27.txt (where the quote below is from) as well as http://webns.net/mvcb/generatorAgent :" 21:56:02 sure. 21:56:07 and _please_ replace the stupid doctype idea with PIs. 21:56:17 awwww. 21:56:22 yer ruining my dumb party. 21:56:25 ha 21:56:28 * Morbus kicks the dirt. 21:57:03 .google xml processing instruction 21:57:04 xml processing instruction: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-stylesheet 21:57:06 argh, 21:57:48 that's not a good one for PI's right? 21:58:01 no... 21:58:14 http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-xml-19980210#sec-pi? 21:58:23 better. 21:59:07 best: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#sec-pi 22:00:20 PI's aren't keyed into DOCTYPE's? 22:00:53 nope, they're like comments 22:00:59 PI's can be read by any app that chooses to read them? 22:01:03 yep. 22:01:16 but so can anything else. 22:01:28 right, like the entity thingy 22:01:39 i mean if stupidCompanyA is going to try and favor stuff, then it'll do it with whatever stupid means it feels like. 22:01:49 i'm gonna favor stuff. 22:01:56 i'm making ampheta a sN only app. 22:02:02 Ah, cool. 22:02:02 too much politico with rss. 22:02:06 i'm sick of it. 22:02:22 well, then you don't need it, since sN doesn't have a doctype. ha! 22:02:51 whoo hoo! 22:05:09 [[[ 22:05:09 Well, if you're gunning for something that isn't easily recognized by client parsers (and usable by only those that specifically code for it, like Syndic8), then at least try and make it valid with the XML itself. 22:05:09 22:05:09 The easiest would be to simply remove the DOCTYPE from the feed itself, 22:05:09 then add an ops:generatorAgent as an attribute somewhere. You say elsewhere that most client apps don't validate by DOCTYPE, and this certainly has credence based on the NS/Doctype Removal Event (tm). Another option would be processing instructions, which are like comments, but structured. 22:05:12 ]]] 22:05:14 ? 22:05:24 that'd be all. 22:05:34 cool 22:13:28 AaronSw: you know anything about xdf? 22:13:42 i don't think i've heard of it 22:13:52 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 22:13:56 jeremiah_ (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 22:13:59 [[[ 22:13:59 I'd like to announce publically for the first time something that 22:13:59 Ive been working on here at NASA for the past few years: XDF. 22:13:59 22:13:59 XDF is a common scientific data format based on XML and general 22:13:59 mathematical principles, that can be used throughout the scientific 22:14:01 jeremiah_ has left #swhack 22:14:01 disciplines. 22:14:03 ]]] 22:14:05 http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/ADCSoftwareDownload.html 22:14:07 and the XDF project is described on the page: 22:14:09 http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/XDF 22:14:21 neat 22:14:34 some guy released a perl module for it. 22:14:44 hmm 22:15:05 @ http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/XDF/ 22:15:10 I think I need to create swap space, maybe that will make my programs stop crashing 22:15:29 morb, think you can only use 1 space. 22:15:36 i had two? hmm. 22:15:37 @ http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/XDF/XDFwhite.txt 22:15:41 oh yeah. 22:15:42 C: http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/XDF/XDFwhite.txt from Morbus 22:16:20 C:|White Paper of the XDF project, developed at NASA. 22:16:21 titled item C 22:16:33 C:\Main site is [here|http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/XDF/] 22:16:42 it's C:: not C:\ 22:16:51 grumble, grumble 22:16:56 C::Main site is [here|http://xml.gsfc.nasa.gov/XDF/] 22:16:57 commented item C 22:17:27 McCusker with heavy sarcasm: "Money and social recognition are the only accoutrements in their compensation system. Why, with these, you can get even more flattery and adulation! | When people admire you, no matter how stupid they are, this should do wonders for your self esteem! Because after all, who are you to judge yourself?" 22:17:37 - http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/ti/newJan02.htm#31jan02 22:18:32 ooh, the other aaron replied to the MT thread. 22:26:46 .seen tav 22:26:46 tav seen in #swhack saying: [ goodbye all ] ~ 2 day(s) 15 hr(s) 48 min(s) 26 sec(s) ago 22:26:58 jeez. 22:27:12 rillian has quit ("shopping") 22:27:26 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Swhack's Most Wanted: Zooko Ozooko and Tav... well just tav 22:30:45 @ http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0205/kaplan.php 22:30:51 D: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0205/kaplan.php from AaronSw 22:31:14 D:|Anarchists: Keepers of the Flame 22:31:15 titled item D 22:32:21 D::"But most striking, if you listened in, would have been the gently earnest tone of the debates, and the palpable humility of the participants. | Everyone spoke briefly and passionately and stopped to really listen, and speakers reflected on how much they had to learn. | Sunday night's impromptu conversation ended only when Lena, 28, one of the conference organizers, quietly mentioned that the evening panelists had arrived, and would it be all right fo 22:32:22 commented item D 22:32:43 D::via [Jorn|http://www.robotwisdom.com/] 22:32:45 commented item D 22:32:59 gasp, you read Jorn?! but what about the israeli's! 22:33:07 * Morbus rolls his eyes. 22:33:11 heh heh heh 22:33:46 D::BTW, '|' is a new symbol (coined by sbp) to stand in for [...]. 22:33:47 commented item D 22:36:21 D::The New York Times [has more on the puppet-makers|http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/01/nyregion/01PUPP.html?pagewanted=print]. 22:36:23 commented item D 22:36:54 I try not to be a zealot. 22:37:29 * jeremiah is away: band practice 22:37:50 good luck 22:38:27 i hate non moving bkgrnds. 22:38:37 in ie 6, it slows down the scrolling of the page immensely. 22:38:41 ala http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/ 22:39:10 then it's ie6 that you should hate :) 22:39:33 oh, you're so logical. 22:39:49 so http://www.antibloggies.com/2/nominate.php is slow too? 22:39:51 you and your childlike mind. wait til you get to be my age! 22:40:18 yup, tis 22:41:29 lol! 22:41:42 kendall called your post Geek Misogyny 22:41:50 """ 22:41:52 (k) in which some asshole says, "It's easier to shoot my girlfriend then to calmly rationalize with her." 22:41:52 (k) What a prick 22:41:52 (k) One has to hope either 1) he's got a terrible sense of humor and 2) he doesn't have a girlfriend, or... hell, 22:41:52 """ 22:42:05 whaaa? where' this? 22:42:14 monkeyfist.com/SemantiChimp/ 22:43:15 heh: http://www.despair.com/bittersweets.html 22:43:29 man, that's great 22:44:01 where does that stuff get chumped from? 22:44:24 the #mf 22:45:03 * Morbus chuckles some more. 22:48:03 ok, time to sign off for this week. c'ya all tomorrow night. 22:48:12 yup, yup. 22:48:37 thanks for telling me about the mf thing. 22:48:39 you in that room? 22:51:30 Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:09:45 karld has left #swhack 23:15:20 elmaestro (none@B5532.pppool.de) has joined #swhack 23:15:24 hi 23:30:22 elmaestro has quit () 23:32:09 DantheMan (~dlowinger@adsl-64-109-170-196.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #swhack 23:32:19 DantheMan is now known as BenSw 23:32:21 Hi 23:32:51 BenSw is now known as DantheMan 23:32:58 hello 23:33:56 DantheMan has left #swhack 23:38:45 deltab has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:38:46 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 23:40:12 xena has quit (Success) 23:41:35 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 2002-02-02.txt0100644000014300000000000002507307427073265011701 0ustar nobodyroot00:02:14 wb deltab 00:15:11 oh please, no! "D::BTW, '|' is a new symbol (coined by sbp) to stand in for [...]." 00:15:54 lol @ "kendall called your post Geek Misogyny" 00:17:07 and Morbus, I think you meant "than" rather then [sic] "then" 00:17:26 oh, he's buggered off 00:17:40 Pff. That's no good. People should be around when I'm ranting at them 00:34:20 * sbp expands "WTF" to "What's This Fickleness?", in Sands 00:49:41 GabeW2 (~gabew@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:49:53 GabeW has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:50:04 GabeW2 is now known as GabeW 00:53:50 GabeW has left #swhack 01:12:19 sbp has changed the topic to: Tav is Lord Lucan! 01:16:36 D::Most people think of "|" as "OR", I would have thought. A better abbreviation for a diaresis would be a dotsplat (.*) 01:17:35 argh 01:17:37 .time 01:17:37 2002/02/02 01:19:15.5282 Universal 01:17:43 D:: 01:17:48 chumpster? 01:18:59 diaeresis? where? 01:19:15 n : a diacritical mark (two dots) placed over a vowel in German 01:19:15 to indicate a change in sound [syn: {umlaut}, {dieresis}] 01:20:23 argh, WTF is wrong with me? 01:20:28 elipsis 01:21:57 a dotsplat would make a good diaresis too 01:22:33 most Germans would disagree :-) 02:35:18 xena has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:47:38 BenSw|asleep is now known as BenSw 02:50:24 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:02:33 Morbus (~Morbus@s103.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 03:29:06 primulate! 03:29:07 that's a wonderful word 03:29:07 phenomic in many ways 03:29:07 .wn primulate 03:29:07 .google primulate 03:29:07 primulate: http://www.biggallery.com/art/byartist/Z1003075.htm 03:29:09 blargh 03:35:00 [03:35] I should trademark all variants of:- 03:35:00 [03:35] Grgrgrgpmrpgmrpmgh 03:42:24 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 03:42:40 Hi rillian 03:42:43 cool. Classic just crashed into macsbug 03:42:49 I typed 'rb' and it did! :) 03:43:29 * sbp wonders WTF rillian is talking about. Morbus - help?! 03:43:52 heh, classic did or your whole OS? 03:44:05 the classic app under macosx 03:44:17 sbp: classic is the name of the "old OS" emulator under OS X. 03:44:32 macsbug is a low level debugger that can interupt system calls. 03:46:05 thanks you Morbus 03:46:26 np 03:46:28 anyway, I was impressed. never saw that before 03:46:40 of course, it could be a bad sign... 04:17:11 i'll buy a room full of cats, stick a bunch of rabbits feet, sawn off ahnds, and a computer. eventually, they will produce hamlet, an automake binary, and exactly what i want. 04:28:09 tansaku2 (~sam@h134-233.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 04:28:53 Hi tansaku 04:46:42 Morbus has left #swhack 04:52:17 Gotta run 05:02:12 so this restuarant where I'm supposed to play a show in like 3 weeks 05:02:15 got shut down for selling crack 05:15:39 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:21:32 rillian has quit ("linux") 05:42:37 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 05:52:58 bye sbp 05:53:07 it's all in the timing 05:53:23 haha 06:14:34 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:15:14 tansaku2 (~sam@h131-239.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 06:20:20 * jeremiah is back (gone 07:42:52) 06:20:22 * jeremiah is away: sleep 07:08:00 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:36:57 karld (~karld@macy.Stanford.EDU) has joined #swhack 07:37:20 karld has left #swhack 11:13:51 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:50:41 tansaku2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:15:42 Morbus (~Morbus@s126.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 13:20:46 "tav is lord lucan"? 13:26:29 hmm thats a weird topic, does it make sense to you? 13:29:57 i've heard the name, but I don't remember it. 13:30:35 gtg bye 13:56:36 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 14:07:46 deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 14:07:46 chumpster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 14:08:46 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 14:08:46 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 14:49:03 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 14:52:21 Morbus has quit (Client Quit) 14:56:04 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 15:02:09 BenSw|at|science|olympiad (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 15:02:41 Hello 15:02:42 Hello 15:02:47 ach 15:04:06 Hello anyone here? 15:05:32 hmm doesn't seem like it 15:08:36 gtg 15:54:08 * Morbus grumbles 16:44:09 BenSw|at|science|olympiad has quit (Remote closed the connection) 16:45:28 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 17:25:38 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 17:38:14 .google "Lord Lucan" 17:38:16 "Lord Lucan": http://www.geocities.com/lucanlord 17:38:38 * Morbus perks up. 17:38:40 sbp! 17:39:11 .google "Lord Lucan" mystery 17:39:12 "Lord Lucan" mystery: http://www.theage.com.au/daily/980428/news/news19.html 17:39:13 Hi there 17:39:19 there, that one's better 17:39:29 i've been so lonely without you. 17:39:40 i'm at work. played with amphetadesk. not in the mood. bad environ. 17:39:40 Lord Lucan was some guy who famously went missing. There was quite a manhunt on for him, but they never found him 17:39:44 now i'm reading game theory stuff. 17:39:52 cool. Whereat? 17:40:12 the essays here: http://www.legendmud.org/raph/gaming/index.html 17:40:34 Argh, now I'm getting Valentine's Day spam. Just wonderful 17:40:41 heh, heh. 17:40:57 why does keareny only respond when i'm at work? 17:41:58 CygBot (~sbp@m231-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:42:05 maybe he's fucking my girlfriend right now. 17:42:08 i shoudl go call home. 17:42:08 heh, the mysteries of rss-dev 17:42:10 lol! 17:42:14 17:42:22 yeah, that's the sorta thing you've got to check up on 17:42:25 hehehehe 17:43:36 7$ lynx http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/0.95.rdf -dump -source | grep rdfs:domain | sort | uniq -c 17:43:45 > 3 17:43:46 > 3 17:43:47 > 2 17:43:48 > 2 17:43:49 > 5 17:43:50 > 1 17:43:51 > 5 17:43:52 > [...] 17:44:11 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:44:15 different 17:47:44 * sbp reckons that Morbus is running home across some fields, brandishing a pick-axe, and screaming "I'll get you, Kearney" 17:48:08 hehhehe. 17:48:19 and carrying a laptop 17:48:27 i bet he is. hes like "yeah, i'll mess with his broad, and then answer his email on his own computer. bwahahaha." 17:48:37 heh, heh, heh 17:49:03 "i'm evil! its my birthday! i'm evil! its my birthday!" 17:55:10 Didn't expect you to be here today - you usually disappear on weekends 17:55:59 yeah, the boss is up in the mountains, so i'm covering. 17:56:05 be here for another ... 2 hours. sigh. 17:56:14 lucky you 17:56:26 catch up on my reading ;) 17:56:43 up in the mountains? skiing? building a rocket powered hut? 17:57:12 i dunno what's he doing. 17:57:20 heh. Didn't ask, eh? 17:57:28 nope. 17:57:39 "I don't wanna know what yo get up to in the mountains, you old pervert" 17:59:39 * sbp thinks about changing the topic - only wants to imply that tav is missing, not that he killed people before he vanished 18:00:20 set topic "Tav Has Moved to Roanoke" 18:00:27 .google Roanoke 18:00:28 Roanoke: http://www.roanoke.com 18:00:59 hold on. 18:01:20 onto what? 18:01:23 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/nation-world/html98/jame_042498.html 18:01:44 sbp has changed the topic to: Tav Has Moved to Roanoke 18:02:21 but he said something like "bye all", not "Croatoan" 18:02:38 "byall" is mysterious enough. 18:02:53 let's say it a thousand times so it'll become slightly changed. virtual telephone. 18:03:16 .seen tav 18:03:16 tav seen in #swhack saying: [ goodbye all ] ~ 3 day(s) 11 hr(s) 24 min(s) 56 sec(s) ago 18:03:23 "goodbye all" 18:03:34 I already changed it once 18:03:46 oOoh, see there you go :) 18:03:51 :-) 18:06:54 Hmm... The Thundertheif should be on sale soon 18:07:05 Pff: Thunderthief 18:10:00 ooh, a review: http://www.linwood.demon.co.uk/thunder.html 18:15:11 and a concert review: http://www.geocities.com/weirdedd/JPJ.html 18:33:16 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 18:54:59 Gotta run 19:52:31 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 21:07:50 oh, I love www-html sometimes] 21:08:12 the biggest conversation at the moment is about spam. I kid ye not 21:26:27 interesting: http://www-db.stanford.edu/~melnik/rdf/fusion.html 23:30:40 Hell 23:30:42 o 23:30:49 ach 23:31:01 * BenSw hates when he presses the enter key to quickly 2002-02-03.txt0100644000014300000000000007377107427347376011721 0ustar nobodyroot00:09:28 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:32:20 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 01:04:10 So, I'm trying to name my Cocoa Ghostscript viewer/client 01:04:12 any ideas? 01:04:18 AquaGhost was shot down :) 01:04:44 actually, it was AquaGhost 01:37:11 gregos (~dd-my0qv2@AFontenayssB-106-1-4-162.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #swhack 01:37:19 kiko 01:37:27 is there someone?? 01:38:39 gregos has left #swhack 01:40:18 oops, didn't notice him 02:02:25 rillian has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:13:23 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 02:20:54 wb rillian 02:32:26 * sbp listens to Reynardine 02:36:59 * sbp listens to Matty Groves 02:45:57 weird: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_511166.html?menu=news.quirkies 02:49:59 heh:- 02:50:00 [[[ 02:50:00 "Wow! RDF is so cool! You can say anything in 02:50:00 RDF! Everyone should us it!" 02:50:07 ]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Feb/0004 02:50:11 that Sandro... 02:50:23 in reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Feb/0002 02:56:07 * sbp works on the EARL 1.0 RDF Schema 03:14:43 new EARL 1.0 draft schema: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2002Feb/0007 03:41:23 rillian has quit ("dinner") 03:50:40 [Global Notice] Hi all. We'll be rerouting almost all of the network in one fell swoop in just a few moments. Expect some client flooding. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for using OPN! 03:52:48 [Global Notice] In process.... 03:53:08 chumpster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:08 deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:08 xena has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:08 deus_x has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 03:53:27 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:53:27 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 03:54:52 tansaku2 (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 03:56:00 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 03:56:00 deus_x (~deusx@bgp995433bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #swhack 03:58:33 [Global Notice] Hi all. Rerouting accomplished. Apologies again for the service interruption, and thank you for using the network! 04:18:52 tansaku3 (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 04:20:39 wb tansaku 04:24:27 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 04:25:44 * sbp fiddles around with the infoset and Sands 04:25:46 Hi Wes 04:26:38 wb wmf 04:28:05 sbp: I've never seen you on for so long 04:28:41 heh, heh 04:29:24 did you see me log on as BenSw|at|science|olypiad? 04:31:15 nope 04:31:28 .google "Science Olympiad" 04:31:29 "Science Olympiad": http://www.soinc.org 04:31:51 ooh, Science Olympiad is fun 04:32:02 thanks BenSw 04:32:04 well anyway its a competition and i won 1st place in one of the things egg drop 04:32:13 cool 04:32:30 it was a invitational 04:32:41 have you done that wmf 04:32:43 ? 04:32:57 yeah, I did it 7th-12th grade 04:33:01 tansaku2 has quit (Connection timed out) 04:33:02 lol 04:33:16 what event? 04:33:33 a lot of them 04:33:48 was egg drop one of them? 04:33:55 no, I never did egg drop 04:34:02 most of the events are different now 04:34:03 tansaku3 is now known as tansaku 04:34:16 no wait it was naked egg drop back then 04:34:36 it changed last year i think\ 04:35:26 back in those days we didn't have any Web resources, either :-) 04:35:35 lol 04:36:21 I loved mousetrap vehicles 04:36:29 well im going bye 04:36:35 later 04:41:27 hello 04:41:32 hello wesley 04:41:37 Hi J 04:41:43 hey 04:41:51 hands cold, waiting for them to warm up a bit 04:41:55 busy in here, today... 04:42:00 ah, really? 04:42:02 * jeremiah is back (gone 22:21:40) 04:43:29 Hmm... is it fair to say that you can give an instance of the Element infoset class properties, even when it's just floating free in some RDF graph? 04:43:40 counter-intuitive 04:44:12 but I think so. I guess that schemata actually set constraints on the elements in just that way 04:44:46 except that for XML schemata, you get an infoset of the document, parse that infoset according to some rules, and then come up with some constraints on other infoset items 04:44:56 what a bundle of joy 04:45:58 I should write that up 04:46:32 sorry, I wasn't paying attention (lemme read it) 04:46:53 wow, I have no idea what you're talking about 04:47:01 I need to readup more on xml 04:47:10 don't worry, neither does anyone else :-) 04:47:22 heh 04:47:55 well, the thing is, I think xml is nice and grand, but I'd rather be working on other stuff, my personal view is that so many people spend so much time worrying about the data and how it can be universally read, but then never create applications that care 04:48:41 that didn't quite get my view across, maybe it's that I think people spend too much time worrying 04:50:45 yeah, we should be worrying about robots taking over the world instead 04:53:04 yeah 04:53:10 and giant tomatos that eat people 04:59:21 XML's not all that grand. Quite simple, really 04:59:43 well, some people argue that it's too complex 04:59:47 hmm 04:59:55 I think it's nice that every program can read each other's data 04:59:56 but it could have been worse. It could have been SGML 05:00:12 "read" and "understand" are two completely different things 05:00:15 parse and process 05:00:15 but I think a lot of programs need to break apart from that type of structure 05:00:20 EXACTLY 05:00:35 and I think that defining standards isn't always the way to go about it 05:00:38 well, use tab-delimited. You can still encode the XML infoset in tab-delimited RDF 05:00:49 I mean, just write the damn xml file and tell them how to understand it, don't form a standards body 05:00:51 well, you have to have standards to build tools to 05:01:04 yeah 05:01:10 I like a lot of the standards 05:01:13 that's the whole point of XML, it delegates the creation of languages to the people 05:01:22 and I don't think i've read up on a lot of them to have strong opininons 05:01:25 XML is a meta-standard, so that people can do what they want 05:01:32 uh huh 05:01:40 yeah 05:01:57 I just need a project that needs coders to do stuff 05:02:34 the thing I'm writing at the moment involves abstracting everything as much as possible, and then recording it so that it has preciser semantics. The benefits are (hopefully) that people will be able to create more accessible languages 05:02:43 the Plex needs coders to do stuff 05:02:56 s/recording/resplurging/ 05:03:07 argh 05:03:08 .time 05:03:09 2002/02/03 05:04:47.1452 Universal 05:03:13 no wonder :-) 05:03:29 yeah 05:03:38 I plan on helping with the plex as much as possible, actually 05:03:42 once I get cvs access 05:03:43 good, good 05:03:44 (cough) 05:03:46 heh, heh 05:03:53 * sbp doesn't have CVS access either 05:04:41 oh 05:04:42 odd 05:04:45 sort of 05:05:23 can you imagine though, I'm 16, what if I kept a weblog until I'm 80 and kept it public 05:05:24 I just send crap to Aaron, and he checks it in if he sees fit 05:05:31 lo 05:05:32 l 05:05:33 hey ben 05:05:36 hello 05:05:43 aaron's brother I'd guess? 05:06:04 weblog for that amount of time: you'd be like a modern day Samuel Peyps 05:06:20 yes but AaronSw wont be happy that i told you :-) 05:06:34 s/Peyps/Pepys/ 05:06:50 * jeremiah does not know of this samuel 05:07:19 .google Samuel Pepys 05:07:20 Samuel Pepys: http://www.hinchbk.cambs.sch.uk/original/pepys.html 05:08:52 I deleted some really old stuff, I should have kept it 05:09:08 old journals, but I have them for around a year now, i think 05:12:03 Gotta run 05:12:09 bye tansaku 05:12:11 sbp 05:12:13 whoops 05:47:33 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:48:14 BenSwX: are you Carbon or Cocoa? 05:48:42 hmm don't know what you mean 05:49:12 I assumed that if you port BenSw to OS X you get BenSwX :-) 05:50:03 lol 05:50:21 I think he's cocoa 05:50:44 it's a great programming environment to talk about, because everyone think's you're talking about your ghetto girlfriend 05:51:22 BenSwX has quit (Client Quit) 06:26:24 jeremiah has quit (Remote closed the connection) 06:32:28 BenSwX (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:32:49 BenSwX has quit (Client Quit) 06:45:23 Hmm. The Fountainhead is actually quite a good book. 06:45:33 uh oh 06:45:48 Ayn Rand is crazy, of course. 06:45:59 ah, ok 06:46:13 But it's almost like an archist 1984 or Brave New World, 'cept the last bit gets a little weird. 06:46:21 err anarchist 06:46:47 I haven't read any of her books, but her followers turn me off 06:47:34 Yeah, same here. But I figured I should read them so I could at least respond. 06:48:06 The major premise is how one man wants to build buildings that are fundamentally Right, in a world where people simply repeat the dreck that the media feeds them. 06:48:29 calling David McCusker! :-) 06:48:42 Heh, it made me think of him quite a bit. 06:49:29 the next time I go to meet tav, maybe I'll brind DavidMc along... 06:49:48 Ooh, I want to see that meeting. ;-) 06:52:47 have you read any nietzsche? 06:53:01 nope. just the quote in the preface. 06:53:16 a philosophy professor told me ayn rand is like nietzsche for the masses 06:53:39 Hmm. 06:54:53 Rand: "I removed [the quote] because of my profound disagreement with the philosophy of its author, Friedrich Nietzsche." 06:55:34 "Philosophically, Nietzsche is a mystic and an irrationalist." 06:55:57 well, I don't know since I haven't read both 06:58:46 comsic humor -- jer: "so this restuarant where I'm supposed to play a show in like 3 weeks got shut down for selling crack" 06:59:27 too bad; the band usually smokes for free :-) 07:00:47 so I found out why OS X is so slow 07:03:14 I wonder what kendall would think of Morbus' latest comments about his gf. ;-) 07:03:26 what? where? 07:04:26 why is OS X so slow? 07:04:33 this is like the secret to human happiness. 07:04:43 is it that the scheduler sucks? 07:04:47 Hmm, there's a rich quote about standards bodies in The Fountainhead. 07:04:59 did you see those lmbench numbers? something is going on in the kernel, and it ain't good 07:05:22 [17:42] why does keareny only respond when i'm at work? 07:05:22 [17:43] maybe he's fucking my girlfriend right now. 07:06:16 I'm not sure why kendall would care about bill kearney and mobus's gf 07:06:54 kendall was making fun of morbus' misogyny the other day 07:07:01 in the kernel? but how could it? it's open source -- that was supposed to cure all evils, right? 07:08:40 too bad the monkeyfist weblog doesn't have permalinks, or i'd link to it. 07:09:51 I've long wondered why Apple is keeping their Mach/BSD hybrid instead of just using the FreeBSD kernel 07:10:25 Maybe the NeXT folks just can't let go. 07:10:33 maybe 07:11:47 anyway, I think some profiling is in order 07:11:52 yikes! those lmbench numbers are quite something. 07:12:28 no kidding. I'd be embarrassed if it was my code 07:15:00 i'm embarassed just to run it 07:15:54 and between the new scheduler, new block layer, and the radix-tree page cache, linux 2.5 is looking good 07:18:30 now we just need a new linus, i guess 07:19:52 nah, linus will be fine after we get him off the rack (mwahaha) 07:21:39 larry macvoy's comments in the patch penguin thread are interesting 07:21:54 er, mcvoy 07:24:28 so do you think I'll ever get kicked off ETP.com? 07:24:53 Hmm, that's quite a question. 07:25:26 even though I'm high in the rankings, I have a lot fewer hits/day than the top sites 07:25:38 (Zipf's law at work) 07:25:54 I think you're on the lower ends of the list. 07:27:01 @ http://www.userland.com/mostReadSitesYesterday 07:27:09 A: Most Read Sites Yesterday from wmf 07:28:50 by two orders of magnitude, it would seem. 07:29:10 what makes MattyG so popular? 07:30:52 @ http://themes.editthispage.com/stats/referers 07:30:58 B: http://themes.editthispage.com/stats/referers from wmf 07:31:54 wow. quite a distribution 07:31:58 B::a very long-tailed distribution 07:31:59 commented item B 07:32:05 B::all searches 07:32:06 commented item B 07:32:16 B:|MattyG Referers 07:32:17 titled item B 07:32:36 it's because dave links to him, i bet. 07:38:08 I am probably killing the servers by loading the referers page for each of the top sites 07:39:34 heh 07:43:59 DSR referers still loading... 07:46:31 .email me@aaronsw.com to read: the stone canal by ken macleod // via wmf 07:46:32 email successfully sent. 07:46:52 DSR referers page finally loading... 07:47:16 it's awesome; I hope you like it 07:47:58 DSR referers still rendering... 07:48:07 Thanks. It'd be cool to read a Ken MacLeod book, if only because he always ruins my google searches. 07:48:15 heh 07:48:39 * AaronSw wonders if DSR's referers contain some deeply DSRs. 07:48:56 * wmf clicks the stop button 07:49:33 wow, it looks like the DSR referers page locked up OmniWeb 07:49:51 [cough] leakypeek 07:49:58 indeed 07:50:08 earlier today it leaked to 1GB 07:50:21 oh man! 07:50:29 serious pain 07:50:58 * wmf force quits omniweb 07:51:16 * AaronSw grabs referers in IE5 07:51:21 I couldn't resist. 07:53:04 wow, 1.4MBs. 07:54:10 that wasn't so bad. 07:54:29 and the number one referer is, at 51 points, http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=dog+fucking&hc=0&hs=0 07:58:35 .news hack the planet 1 07:58:38 PARC Modular Reconfigurable Robotics. - PARC Modular Reconfigurable Robotics.Thevideosare amazing. - http://www.parc.xerox.com/spl/projects/modrobots/ 07:58:54 yeah, i was just watching the climbing one 08:00:08 * wmf is very sleepy 08:00:12 wmf has quit ("zzz") 08:00:38 * AaronSw notices the time 08:00:55 the fountainhead was really engrossing. i wonder what tav thinks of it. 09:51:13 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:03:21 tansaku4 (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 10:51:43 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 11:10:18 tansaku4 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:28:56 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:12:48 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:01:34 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:18:42 @ http://geoffreygrosenbach.com/plucky.html 15:18:50 C: http://geoffreygrosenbach.com/plucky.html from AaronSw 15:18:58 C:|PluckyX Headline Grabber 15:18:59 titled item C 15:19:58 C::A GUI RSS reader for the Mac OS 15:19:58 commented item C 15:25:12 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 16:16:24 @ http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/senate-testimony 16:16:26 D: http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/senate-testimony from AaronSw 16:25:36 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:26:13 D::"After 15 years of extensive promotion, only 20% of American households contain CD players. Only a small fraction of these chose to buy one equipped with the digital output necessary to make digital-to-digital copies." 16:26:15 commented item D 16:30:31 D:|Philip Greenspun's Testimony Against the Audio Home Recording Act of 1991 16:30:33 titled item D 16:32:27 D::See also Philip's [Tape Tax History|http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/tape-tax-history.html]: "November 1992: one day before he is voted out of office by the American people, George "No New Taxes" Bush signs the bill creating a new kind of tax, two new taxes, a new bureaucracy, and seven new legal causes of action." 16:32:28 commented item D 17:07:51 * sbp catches up 17:08:12 Not much to catch up on. I'll check my mail instead 17:08:57 Not much of that, either 17:10:02 Pff, I'll go an eat instead 17:10:07 s/an/and/ 17:12:47 Heh. 17:18:30 * sbp waves, with stuff cooking 17:19:24 * sbp decided that the constraints gathered by parsing XML Schemata are clearly not on actual instances of the infoset classes - that doesn't make the least bit of sense 17:19:51 the constraints must be separate, on things like xsd:Element, and then you'll have some rules to apply those constraints to your parsed XML document 17:20:46 which, when you think about it, is how XML schema validators must work. They parse an XML document into the store, then parse an XML schema document and check those constraints against the material in the store 17:21:39 So it must be possible to map both the infoset and the XML schema constraints onto the RDF model, and then apply rules for validation 17:22:15 although you'd have to be mad/paid to translate all of XML Schema into RDF 17:22:34 translating the obvious bits wouldn't be too difficult, I suppose... 17:24:33 Hmm, yesterday was Groundhog Day? 17:25:13 was it? 17:25:44 yeah, you're right 17:30:03 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 17:33:51 good intro: """The purpose of a schema is to define a class of XML documents, and so the term "instance document" is often used to describe an XML document that conforms to a particular schema. In fact, neither instances nor schemas need to exist as documents per se -- they may exist as streams of bytes sent between applications, as fields in a database record, or as collections of XML Infoset "Information Items" -- but to simplify the primer, we have chosen to alw 17:35:30 Hmm... I don't think it's possible to reconstruct an XML document given its infoset representation 17:35:51 because the list of children for an element is an unordered list - so how would you reconstruct the order? 17:36:26 oops, my mistake: "An ordered list of child information items, in document order." 17:37:14 Pff, that was quite a misreading 17:40:16 This is really cool. Google adopted Kottke's design changes: http://www.google.com/news/newsheadlines.html 17:41:11 wow 17:41:40 that is impressive 17:45:19 D::I [wrote a letter to my congressman|http://logicerror.com/dmcaLetter] about the DMCA and music. 17:45:21 commented item D 17:47:46 wow, you wrote your congressman? That's like the last resort, is it not? :-) 17:50:02 heh 17:54:25 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Badgers? We don't need no steenkin' badgers! 17:54:33 http://www.darryl.com/badges/ 17:57:16 heh, that's quite cool. Don't forget to chump it 17:58:18 wacky: "Starting today, a variety of AM, FM, shortwave and Internet radio stations around the world will begin a broadcast of an automated voice reading the source for the Linux kernel -- all 4,141,432 lines of it. The estimated time to completion is nearly two years (by which point, presumably, the code will be obsolete and superceded by a more recent version)." 17:58:22 @ http://www.darryl.com/badges/ 17:58:29 E: Stinking Badges Home Page from AaronSw 17:59:10 E::via [Boing Boing|http://boingboing.net/2002_02_01_archive.html#9285201] 17:59:23 commented item E 17:59:31 E::See also: the [FoRK FAQ's section|http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~adam/local/faq-fork.html#badges]. 17:59:39 commented item E 18:02:29 that is wacky indeed 18:25:12 "They say we can't visualize total nothing. Hell, sit at any committee meeting!" - Kent Lansing in The Fountainhead 18:35:41 karld (~karld@macy.Stanford.EDU) has joined #swhack 18:39:04 karld has left #swhack 18:45:42 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:52:23 Etymology of FU: http://www.familychronicle.com/agincort.htm 19:36:51 I think instead of syaing HTP DG I'll just say FoWF 19:55:39 Hmm, PluckyX is really nice 19:57:43 PluckyX? 19:57:51 yeah, http://geoffreygrosenbach.com/plucky.html 19:59:48 funky 20:00:02 it's like a GUI ampheta 20:02:24 Wes: "I think [human] evolution is over, because natural selection is over. Virtually everyone stays alive. I'm not complaining." 20:02:49 Pff, I've been saying that for years 20:03:08 Yeah, he was just commenting on this Guardian story which says it's highly controvertial: http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,644002,00.html 20:03:20 seems rather obvious to me, outside of the darwin awards, of course. 20:04:03 well, it's not over, but it's grinding to a halt, I think 20:04:38 I think the comments like "this is utopia" are rather off base. evolution isn't everything. 20:04:55 absolutely 20:05:02 and this is probably wrong, too: 'Then, quite abruptly, these people were replaced by light, tall, highly intelligent people who arrived from Africa and took over the world. You simply cannot predict evolutionary events like this. Who knows where we are headed?' 20:05:23 current theories are that there was cross-breeding 20:05:36 yeah, it's a big controversy. i go for love over war. 20:06:48 interesting cro-magnon/neanderthal comparison: http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/neander.html 20:07:26 ah, this is what I was searching for: http://www.flatlandbooks.com/gooch.html 20:09:20 Hmm... perhaps not 20:09:29 tansaku (~sam@h131-220.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 20:10:16 That's quite a weird little article 20:16:10 * sbp runs the Sands test 20:23:52 ugh, CWM really seems to barf up parsing of an external document 20:24:02 it's adding the semantics to the store even when I don't want it to 20:30:08 Cool! People are making other OS X themes. 20:33:53 Hmm... is the sands:Element class the class of all constraints upon members of the infoset:Element class? 20:34:37 here's what I have:-0 20:34:37 s/0// 20:34:37 [[[ 20:34:37 sands:Element a rdfs:Class; rdfs:label "Element"; 20:34:38 rdfs:comment "The class of all constraints on infoset elements"; 20:34:40 rdfs:seeAlso infoset:Element . # sands:constraintClassOf 20:34:42 ]]] 20:41:56 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 20:42:43 Hey wes. 20:43:32 If a MacOS X app had to quit because of an uncatched OutOfBoundsException, does that mean it's in Java? 20:44:01 maybe 21:36:03 Where's Morbus? He could get more free stuff with his Apache skillz: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001192/2002/02/03.html#a20 21:38:29 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 21:38:50 hey jer 21:38:52 hey 21:38:58 hmm, you might know the answer to this: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001192/2002/02/03.html#a20 21:40:09 interesting 21:40:56 I think I know what he's asking 21:41:30 I never recalled .htaaccess using users and groups though, i thought it used a custom file, so you would have to tie it into the login system, which would prob require custom code 21:43:04 Hm. 21:43:49 I think he would like anyway of restricting users. 21:45:57 maybe I'll email him 21:46:36 but I'm sure there are other people emailing him who know signifigantly more about it 21:51:20 what do you use for your irc, and if so, how do you have it notify you when there are new messages? 21:52:51 I use Snak for OS X and hit has little red lights go on when someone speaks. xchat too. 21:53:02 ok 22:01:15 hazmat (~ender@63.100.190.94) has joined #swhack 22:02:36 brb. switching dirc instance to vorpal. 22:02:48 AaronSw has quit ("Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.0.1") 22:02:57 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 22:02:59 wb 22:03:38 Aaron (~Snak@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 22:03:52 AaronSw has quit (Client Quit) 22:03:52 wb^2 22:04:10 Aaron is now known as AaronSw 22:04:20 well that was fun. 22:27:54 * AaronSw works on his new homepage 22:28:23 new homepage? 22:28:55 yeah, i'm redesigning it with the read/write/collaborate theme 22:29:05 ah 22:29:27 into which category would you splonk Sands? 22:30:02 read 22:30:14 rationale? 22:30:45 Sands provides semantics about XML, which makes it repurposable, which is essentially a form of making it easier to read. 22:31:54 * AaronSw wonders what photo to use. 22:32:13 Hmm... tenuous link, but I'll take it! 22:32:39 I think it makes it easier to test (for accessiblity etc.), which makes it both easier to read and writ 22:32:42 blargh 22:32:44 write 22:33:05 Windswept, perhaps 22:33:10 I like the doorknob one, though 22:33:16 Yeah, I was wondering if I look a little too smug in windswept. 22:33:33 Heh, heh 22:33:45 Just provide a comical caption 22:33:46 I don't see how making things easier to test makes them easier to write. I guess testing is a writer's tool... 22:34:17 well, you can automatically derive labels for authoring tools, for instance 22:34:33 ooh, that's quite a good use case... Chaals has been ranting about that for ages 22:36:16 Oh, I had a cool little mirror project photo from London I could use. 22:39:09 you know, adjusting the little icon slider in the Mac OS X finder is almost as good as iPhoto 22:40:25 Hmm, the London photos make me look really silly. 22:40:52 hazmat has left #swhack 22:43:32 do a negative/black & white or something 22:43:56 when in doubt... take another 22:44:08 or that 22:57:51 * AaronSw gets a profile shot with eerie green monitor glow 22:58:51 Hmm, I look too much like an evil witch. 22:59:31 lol 22:59:54 and my brother looks like a character from Shrek. 23:02:10 wow: """At Google, for example, we found it costs less money and it is more efficient to use DRAM as storage as opposed to hard disks -- which is kind of amazing. It turns out that DRAM is 200,000 times more efficient when it comes to storing seekable data.""" - Eric Schmidt 23:03:28 yeah 23:10:51 is appleinsider down? 23:11:04 .http://www.appleinsider.com/ 23:11:12 Hmm, Paul McCartney is on TV for some reason. 23:12:23 i can't get to it, wmf 23:12:40 5 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss 23:12:43 me neither 23:12:56 Must've been Steved. 23:12:58 I want my mindless-apple-speculation fix! 23:13:19 "MacNN is currently experiencing technical difficulties. As a result, the Macintosh News Network and its subsidiaries have been unavailable for the past 24 hours. MacNN will continue to offer weekend news coverage; many MacNN services will remain unavailable. We expect most issues to be resolved at the beginning of the work week." - macnn.com 23:13:34 oh 23:19:03 PGP Fingerprint: 4FAC 4838 B7D8 D13F A6D9 2EDB 4145 521E 79F0 DF4B 23:20:06 another sands draft: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Feb/att-0003/01-index 23:24:13 error: [Errno socket error] (110, 'Connection timed out') 23:39:21 * sbp announces Sands to RDF IG, since it seems to have some bearing on the current infoset thread 23:44:16 Pff, why does the W3C's list archiving deeley prepend "01-" to attachments? 23:44:44 given that they have their own directories! 23:55:27 too annoy you, i suspect ;) 23:55:33 indeed 23:56:26 "we cna constrain"? 23:56:39 yeah. Superglue 23:57:16 What, you want me to check my documents for typos before I send them? No way, nark! 23:57:54 Homer: Free the Springfield two! 23:58:03 how'd you make the graphics? 23:58:12 RDF Validator 23:58:29 and Irfan View 23:58:53 Irgan View? 23:58:58 .google irfan view 23:58:59 irfan view: http://www.irfanview.com 23:59:30 neat 23:59:43 it is indeed 23:59:58 "IrfanView is a very fast FREEWARE (for non-commercial use) 23:59:58 32-Bit graphic viewer for Windoze 9x/ME, WinNT, Win2000 and Windows XP. 23:59:58 " 2002-02-04.txt0100644000014300000000000014031407427620140011665 0ustar nobodyroot00:01:06 it's small, fast, opens any obscure image format you care to mention, and you can fit it in your front pocket 00:01:10 well, scratch the last one 00:01:38 GraphicConverter owns 00:01:44 pardon? 00:02:01 GraphicConverter does all of that, plus editing and batch conversions 00:02:22 it'll do batch converstion 00:02:40 has minimal editing capabilities, although I guess it trades that for siz 00:02:43 yeah, but GraphicConverter run on the Mac :-) 00:02:56 further proof that it sucks. Thanks, wmf 00:03:01 lol 00:03:04 :-) 00:03:12 hmm, siz 00:03:25 abbrev. f'r "size" 00:03:31 or sizzle 00:03:47 or "sister", slang-wise 00:05:22 * jeremiah is visiting superbowl advertising websites 00:05:42 Datatypes Smackdown! Stickler, Carroll vs. Connolly, Melnik 00:05:54 ^ much more interesting than superbowl ;-) 00:06:00 indeed 00:06:05 * wmf makes fajitas, blissfully unaware of XML turmoil 00:06:16 That's RDF turmoil to you, mister! 00:06:18 RDF turmoil, wmf 00:06:25 * jeremiah drinks grapefruit juice, also blissfully unaware of XML turmoil 00:06:29 * wmf hears nothing 00:06:31 s/XML/RDF 00:06:31 yeah. We don't need no steenkin' XML 00:06:52 so mlife.com is a mobil phone company 00:07:06 still trying to figure out infecttruth.com 00:07:19 something about smoking 00:07:24 I figure if they advertise on the superbowl it's only safe to visit their sites in a text-only browser. 00:07:33 anti or pro? Not that one can tell the difference, these days 00:07:34 yeah, sites are a tad slow 00:07:37 anti 00:07:47 it redirected me to thetruth.com 00:07:54 which I have seen advertise against smoking before 00:08:01 [cf. the collectible anti-cigarette cards somewhere in SAm] 00:08:12 [sciam?] 00:08:12 oh wow, I wonder if this website is run by all that money the tobacco companies had to pay to show how bad smoking is 00:08:14 that'd be cool 00:08:17 South America 00:08:18 i was worried more about JavaScript than speed, but they are slow. 00:08:27 wow, mlife can give me personalized ring tones. my phone doesn't even ring, Einstein 00:08:47 thetruth.com is one big usemap. my text-only browser idea worked out real well there. [cough] 00:08:50 ask them for a personalized vibra-frequency 00:09:01 it would be cool to have one that says "wesley, pick up your goddamn phone" 00:09:07 wow, Links browsers USEMAPs beautifully -- that's cool. 00:09:26 s/Links browsers/Links browses/ 00:09:27 or "HTP went down - quick, ring up Winer!" 00:09:35 I never get confused about whose phone is ringing. if my phone is vibrating, I KNOW it 00:09:35 Heh, heh, heh 00:09:39 that would be more of an SMS service, though, I guess 00:09:47 heh 00:09:48 wmf, unless you live on a fault line 00:09:58 good point 00:10:21 "Hello? Hello?" oh, it's an earthquake 00:10:24 TheTruth.com: "Dog poop: Something smells like truth." 00:10:48 you would think with pdas going into phones they'd stop adding that vibrate feature 00:11:03 hm? 00:11:04 since... it's really smart to put a vibrator in expensive electronics 00:11:24 well, PDAs should be shock proof 00:11:34 not to mention dog-proof 00:11:37 my phone is expensive, and it vibrates. it has a warranty, so I don't care 00:11:41 * jeremiah throws two of his broken palmpilots at sbp 00:11:56 my Newton is pretty sturdy. of course it's also gigantic 00:11:57 i heard vibrators make the disk drive spin faster 00:12:33 Yeah, the Newtons are great. 00:12:45 ... for throwing at other people 00:12:57 swhack! 00:13:11 dang, I thought that last commerical was for sixdegrees 00:13:22 "we 00:13:30 "we're out of business, but visit out site anyway" 00:13:42 another mlife commerical 00:16:23 cool: http://www.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CpfOG0bKbytaWntG -- we (and many others, i'm sure) had that idea years ago. 00:18:30 I guess we'll try it out on our annual six flags trip. see, the school gives you free tickets to 6th graders and under if you read for more than 600 minutes 00:19:12 if using computers counted as reading, holy shit I'd have a lot of minutes 00:19:20 suppose we all would 00:19:43 Heh, yeah. They only counted paper books, though. 00:19:59 Although I don't think they really verified that hard. 00:24:20 so, who's winning? 00:24:43 can't tell 00:24:47 lol 00:24:57 it says STL 3 NE 0, but I think that's... yards or something 00:25:01 who has the higher score - that's usually a give away 00:25:05 it's the rams vs the patriots 00:25:06 heh, heh 00:25:09 no score on the screen 00:25:20 .superbowl 00:25:29 need more xena hackers, i guess 00:25:38 who wrote xena? 00:25:44 HaX0R teh xena! 00:26:10 Killarny and tav 00:26:42 Who's tav? 00:26:51 oh yeah, that guy that used to hang around here... 00:26:53 :-) 00:27:32 wow, I got my RDF IG message. I only posted it like an hour ago, so that's good 00:27:58 AaronSw: did that guy do the newtorking code yet? 00:28:11 He's disappeared, it seems. Everyone's looking for him. 00:28:13 .seen zooko 00:28:14 zooko seen changing nickname to zooko_configuring_linux_kernel ~ 5 day(s) 10 min(s) 50 sec(s) ago 00:28:14 .seen tav 00:28:15 tav seen in #swhack saying: [ goodbye all ] ~ 4 day(s) 17 hr(s) 49 min(s) 55 sec(s) ago 00:28:26 interesting 00:28:32 BenSw|watchingsuperbowl (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:28:39 Hello 00:28:43 heh, it's taken zooko 5 days to configure the Linux kernal, and counting 00:28:56 Heh. 00:28:59 DISCLAIMER: "Linux" is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds 00:29:05 in some countried 00:29:11 yeah 00:29:23 "country" a verb now, eh 00:29:25 ? 00:29:47 me speaking statacco 00:30:10 I noticed that I tend to chop unecessary out of sentences 00:30:20 hmm 00:30:33 I should watch a movie, i bought 3 yesterday 00:32:29 * AaronSw took Fundamentals of Music (Theory) last year. 00:32:37 was it good? 00:32:58 touchdown by patriots 00:32:58 It was really boring, mostly because I'd picked up a lot of it already 00:33:10 you play piano, right? 00:33:17 or was that someone else 00:33:21 and because there was a lot of grunt work (write ever single scale known to man forwards and backwards) 00:33:25 no, i play a little piano 00:33:32 oh yeah? So, what's a note, smart-guy 00:33:54 and for your intermediate question: a minim 00:33:57 It's a unit of sound. 00:34:30 and for your higher-intermediate: what's the major seventh in the key of G 00:34:38 a minim appears to be 1/60 of a fluid dram or a half note 00:34:44 heh, heh 00:34:55 except in britain where it's 1/20 of a scruple 00:35:03 i've got no minims! 00:35:13 You Americans are so unscrupulous 00:35:28 go to the shop, lay your money down... 00:35:34 major seventh in the key of G -- yeah, gruntwork 00:35:57 I actually let you off lightly, there 00:36:50 it's weird listening to the tivo-echo. 00:37:04 they have the game on two tvs, one tivoed and one not. 00:37:05 huh 00:37:07 oh 00:37:25 we have the same thing with digital and regular 00:38:17 "and today, we find that many fishes bask in electric" [turn over] "we find that many back in electric pencil..." 00:38:17 downstairs we have surround-sound 00:38:20 up here we have normal tv 00:38:30 er... I screwed that up, but you get the gist 00:39:01 so in surround sound does John Madden start pacing all around you? 00:39:03 I can feel the superbowl's sound under my feet 00:39:09 I dunno 00:40:13 everyone makes too much of a fuss over the superbowl in my opinion 00:41:55 hey you're the one watching it 00:41:55 :) 00:44:17 The commercials this year aren't very good 00:44:33 Thats all that matters 00:44:38 imo 00:44:46 is that all you watch it for? heh 00:45:18 * wmf is not watching 00:45:20 I like the one on The Simpsons. If that's indicative of the Superbowl commericials, I'm sold 00:46:17 * wmf loads his shotgun 00:46:22 Last year had some good commercials but this year the companies found out that they would come up as WORST SUPERBOWL COMMERCIAL so all these ones are making fun of what is going to happen tommoow 00:47:40 wmf: you in texas? 00:47:44 Austin 00:53:55 * BenSw|watchingsuperbowl laughs at the topic 00:54:03 its from UHF 00:54:08 * jeremiah explains that although he has no problem with the brits, he does come from irish heritage, and therfore finds it necessary to make fun of them at all costs (apologies to sbp) 00:54:26 * sbp is part Irish 00:54:32 sbp: right on 00:54:41 * jeremiah is part German 00:54:48 heh, heh 00:55:28 karld (~karld@macy.Stanford.EDU) has joined #swhack 00:55:48 hey karld 00:55:59 wb karld 00:56:03 hey aaron 00:56:09 *sigh* I guess I have to go through the house-rules crap 00:56:36 this channel is instantly publically logged to the Web. To make an off-log comment, please prefix your comment with "# ". Have a nice day 00:56:57 we need butler bot 00:57:00 and welcome :-) 00:57:00 gotta run - dinner 00:57:08 you should be able to automate that with a bot 00:57:12 yeah. Perhaps you can rig xena up to do that 00:57:21 or have it as the channel notification thingy 00:58:57 Hmm... there was something on Wiki about USA vs. UK 00:59:13 it ended up with a stark comparison of baseball and cricket 00:59:53 it should have compared football and football 00:59:55 :) 00:59:58 :-) 01:00:13 a closer comparison is American Football and Rugby 01:01:36 BenSw|watchingsuperbowl is now known as AaronSw` 01:01:38 * AaronSw` waves 01:02:25 AaronSw` is now known as BenSw````````````` 01:02:25 BenSw````````````` is now known as AaronSw` 01:02:53 AaronSw` has quit ("w007") 01:03:14 now children... 01:04:40 AaronSw` (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 01:04:45 wb Ben 01:04:47 Hmm, only 3 people in #superbowl 01:05:00 Do I look like Ben? He tried to quit, I stole the computer. 01:05:08 indeed 01:05:45 it's difficult to tell, y'know :-) 01:07:20 so, karl: interested in the Semantic Web? 01:08:16 .google "(karl d'adamo" 01:08:17 "(karl d'adamo": http://www.semanticweb.org/SWWS/program/position 01:08:45 that'll be a "yes", then 01:09:23 very much so actually, osrry i was away for a few minutes 01:09:35 np 01:09:53 what kind of application domains are you focussed upon? 01:10:53 i don't have a focus, but i think that indexing and managing content are the most interesting 01:11:09 have you heard of Plex? 01:11:13 i guess they are kind of the most obvious and probably will be the first round of applications 01:11:14 http://plexdev.org/ 01:11:24 yeah 01:11:33 yes, i have heard of the plex...very cool idea...exactly what i meant 01:13:34 may I ask how you came across #swhack (just for interest - we don't get a great deal of visitors, and it's nice to know how word got about)? 01:14:25 i think from aaronsw maybe via rdfig 01:14:39 cool 01:14:54 really? 01:15:21 We need to do some referer tracking and stuff. 01:15:25 i don't remember actually, i rarely use irc anyway 01:15:30 "Visit #swhack and ask for JUDY" 01:15:36 yes, that would be interesting 01:15:40 heh, heh 01:15:55 really, i am in love with xena 01:16:05 that's why i come back every time 01:16:09 Heh, heh. 01:16:24 lol 01:16:47 Apparently there's a xena feature tav hasn't told us about/ 01:16:57 what is it? :-) 01:17:28 unfortunately i'm on the wrong computer to look right now. 01:17:37 that's tav's plan! he will take over the world using a back door in xena after everyone adopts it! 01:17:44 .newfeatures 01:17:55 it's just like Dissembler and the Black Plan... 01:18:17 What book is this? 01:18:25 The Star Fraction 01:19:51 Google doesn't seem to have archived any of #swhack 2002 yet 01:21:13 It's because Eric is waiting to "add more recency to the index" 01:21:14 heh 01:21:14 you need to bribe jill 01:21:14 I tried that already. 01:21:14 " Ken MacLeod is the greatest living Trotskyist libertarian cyberpunk science-fiction humorist. It's a safe claim to make, because he is undoubtedly the only such creature. " - http://www.salon.com/books/feature/1999/07/27/macleod_interview/ 01:21:14 you need to bribe her with hotdogs or something 01:21:21 heh, heh 01:22:13 he won "two Prometheus awards for best libertarian science fiction novel"? Get outta here! 01:22:36 that sounds like a good desription 01:22:44 """But his next most favored spot is "alt.politics.socialism.trotsky"""" - pff, no mention of #swhack 01:23:52 lol 01:23:52 It'd be sort of funy if it turned out it was our Ken MacLeod who posted there. 01:24:44 ah 01:25:07 * sbp smacks self with a book 01:25:16 "The Star Fraction"? 01:25:23 not on my shelf 01:26:07 I bet Wes will lend it to you. 01:27:39 sure, I'll lend it to anyone who wants to come pick it up 01:28:07 Aaron can go and fetch it for me, and then bring it to me the next time he's over here 01:29:08 Paul McCartney is making fun of the announcers on TV. 01:29:20 This is really sad. 01:29:31 They're trying to sing AHDN together. 01:35:31 yeah 01:35:53 wmf has quit ("BitchX-75p3 -- just do it.") 01:36:21 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 01:36:31 I hate it when Terminal dies for no reason 01:37:22 it's rebelling 01:39:01 that's like the 5th mlife commerical now 01:39:13 terminal: same here. it's really annoying 01:39:54 I like it more when mozilla or my editor crashes 01:40:09 I think it's time for a shower 01:40:10 * jeremiah is away: I'm busy 01:40:26 That never happens to me, since I don't use mozilla 01:46:42 goin' back upstairs. 01:46:49 AaronSw` has quit ("bbl") 01:49:39 'Wes' would make a funny McCusker character. 01:50:24 :-) 01:59:50 so what would this 'Wes' character always be going on about? 02:04:59 who knows 02:09:11 Hmm, my TiVo downloaded ads for the TiVo Series2 02:09:46 heh, heh 02:09:54 "upgrade me!" 02:10:13 you say you want a tivolution... 02:10:36 * AaronSw has a tivolution t-shirt 02:14:32 it's not really clear from the site what the advantage of series 2 is 02:16:06 one of the ads is labeled "how to explain tivo to your friends" 02:16:14 uh oh 02:16:19 viral marketing 02:16:30 just don't let it show you any bitmaps :-) 02:16:48 "Mom, I know this is hard for you to take, but i've joined th 'tivolution'." 02:17:00 * wmf blogs AaronSw 02:17:19 Heh, heh. 02:19:11 lol: "he was such a good boy" 02:19:42 Can you capitalize the i in I've for me? 02:21:32 oh, my inner english teacher missed that one 02:22:02 next thing you know he'll be writing for TiVo International 02:22:41 It seems the Series2's big feature is that it's "Enabled for future services in home entertainment, including digital music, photos and more" 02:23:42 It's also "smaller and sleeker, offers greater recording capacity (up to 60 hours), and includes a new remote control with increased functionality. It's all-new from the ground up." 02:23:56 Ooh! Two USB ports built-in. 02:25:56 Heh, mlife.org is the meaning of life website 02:26:26 mLife is not the meaning of life 02:26:37 "Mlife is your life made truly mobile," Zeglis told analysts gathered in Redmond, Wash. 02:26:42 - http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D1884%2526a%253D22186,00.asp 02:27:49 netspend had a similarly vague ad campaign 02:28:21 "netspend is your life made truly mobile" 02:28:30 no, not quite 02:28:39 Is netspend that thing that lets your parents by you pr0n? 02:28:40 .google hackintern 02:28:41 hackintern: http://www.stargoose.de/hackintern/hackintern.htm 02:28:45 s/by/buy/ 02:29:06 no, it lets you use your allowance to buy anything but porn 02:29:15 "Ja ja, ich hab mir ziemlich viel Zeit gelassen, aber hier ist die versprochene Weiterführung von Hackintern." 02:32:06 Netspend seems to throw me into an infinite meta-refresh redirect. Aaaargh! 02:33:07 .google fourth international 02:33:07 fourth international: http://www.w3.org/Conferences/WWW4 02:33:16 heh 02:33:53 IW3C2 has got to be the worst acronym I know of. 02:34:18 in Ken MacLeod's universe, the Fourth International is some kind of socialist conspiracy. coincidence? I think not 02:34:34 oooh. 02:36:13 "The Fourth International was founded by Trotsky in 1938. In 1953 it suffered a major split..." 02:36:49 the W3C is run by the Fourth International! I must inform the world! 02:37:12 ...suffered a major split between the XML capitalists and the RDF socialists. 02:37:32 You just keep quiet about this wmf, or we're going to get TimBL on you. 02:37:39 Did you know TimBL's machine is named politburo.w3.org? 02:37:54 I know who TimBL works for. I fear nothing 02:38:33 That's what you say now, but just wait until webpages suddenly start changing their content. 02:39:10 He's had a backdoor in httpd and he's carefully maintained it thru all the Apache versions... 02:39:32 betty is immune 02:39:50 That's what you think. 02:40:57 Why do you think Dave got to have lunch with TimBL, eh? 02:41:06 no... it can't be... 02:41:55 I think you're starting to see just what you've gotten yourself into. 02:42:39 Notice how your "Publications" section has changed from "Really!" to "OK, not really." Just a small show of his influence. 02:42:55 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:46:56 I wonder what the average length is of every URI indexed by Google? 02:47:31 .google average length of every URL indexed by Google 02:47:33 average length of every URL indexed by Google: http://www.developersnetwork.com/Articles/Articles.asp?Article=56 02:48:28 Hmm... "swhack" gets only 726 results. Kinda surprising 02:50:09 wow, we got Voidstar'd: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.voidstar.com/module.php%3Fmod%3Dblog 02:52:37 Hmm... http://www.neurogrid.net/servlet/com.neurogrid.prime.RDFServlet?URI=http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 02:54:30 Heh. 02:55:12 meta_author should probably replaced with dc:author in that. 02:55:35 I think the whole thing is a bit messed up 02:59:21 @ http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,8542,642599,00.html 02:59:32 A: Guardian Unlimited | Gallery | Citigroup Private Bank photography prize 2002 index from sbp 02:59:44 A:|Citigroup Photography Prize 2002 02:59:46 titled item A 03:05:51 * tansaku puts up a sign saying "RDFServlet under construction" 03:06:26 AaronSw: "meta_author should probably replaced with dc:author in that." kind of misses the point 03:06:39 no, since you already use a meta_description. 03:06:56 so it's the author, of the description, of the description, of the file? 03:07:24 meta_author means the author of the description, but that meta_description could also contain dc:author 03:07:48 which would mean that the meta_author sam was ascribing the author of the actual document to someone else, e.g. you 03:08:07 interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,642792,00.html 03:08:34 I'm certainly not suggesting that the way the RDFServlet is set up at present is perfect, but I think there is the necessity for a meta_author tag, at least superficially 03:09:14 ah, i understand. 03:09:51 yeah, reification might be simpler 03:10:21 yeah, that RDFServlet output is from earlier experiments 03:10:52 I then ran into problems with JENA not supporting different kinds of RDF concepts, such as reification, and then confusion about what encoding to use 03:11:33 then other projects and christmas got in the way ... I'm just coming to some clear water again and should be able to get working on this interface again ... 03:12:05 Jena has to support reification, it's not really anything special. 03:12:17 [[[ 03:12:18 Went to see Bagels and Fraylox at Aromas, a local coffe shop. 03:12:18 I'm not a member of the coffe shop crowd, it sorta scares me actually. 03:12:24 ]]] - http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2002/02/03.html#a286 03:12:36 they don't let you in if you can't spell "coffee", anyway 03:12:37 well yes, there's "has to" and "sam able to work out how to get Jena to support it" 03:12:41 * tansaku has to go 03:12:47 catch you guys later 03:12:49 :-) c'ya 03:12:50 c'ya 03:13:04 "Oh, and I really dig Jewish music." - Jeremiah 03:13:17 There's some good Klezmer out there. 03:13:25 .google "old world beat" mcdonalds 03:13:26 no results found. 03:13:38 hmm 03:14:17 I'm hovering somewhere between "heavy rock" and "folk" at the moment. It's odd, but refreshing 03:14:54 Ah, it's called "Watch Your Step" 03:16:06 Amazon has a clip: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B00000035A001005/ 03:18:24 heh! http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_511684.html?menu=news.quirkies 03:21:49 heh! http://www.pissart.org/ 03:22:17 lol! 03:23:18 It "embodies the DIY culture in its most intimate & naive form." 03:23:37 oh dear, that's so funny 03:24:19 this is bizarre: http://www.restrooms.org/device-free.html 03:25:45 but is it art? :-) 03:26:04 Hmm... #sbp needs a WebLog 03:27:12 "each participant leaves his/her own colour 03:27:12 pH signature 03:27:13 " 03:27:51 blargh, I'm going to be writing one in Python, aren't I? 03:28:59 Hmm... but I'll need to FTP the junk onto the Web; that's going to be difficult to optimize 03:29:15 preferably, for each bit of new text, I only want to send that text, not the whole new page 03:30:01 Hey, if Blogger does it... 03:30:18 yeah, but I only have Python and ASP to work with 03:30:28 I mean Blogger uses FTP. 03:30:32 does it? 03:30:36 Yep. 03:30:40 You could just get a blogger account and use the Blogger API to do it. 03:33:27 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:53:16 hazmat (~ender@209.249.161.137) has joined #swhack 04:33:28 wmf has quit ("wmf has no reason") 04:34:13 well, I have a working blogger bot in Python 04:52:00 leave 04:52:06 woops 04:52:08 karld has left #swhack 05:28:05 time to disappear: gotta get some work done 05:31:10 c'ya 05:35:01 Apple's big cost-cutting moves: With the CD-ROMs they send, they replaced the piece of paper that described what's on them with an advertisement and now send the description by email. 05:36:02 heh, heh 05:39:11 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:42:53 Gotta run 05:52:33 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 06:06:15 nite all 06:32:08 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:04:28 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:22:36 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 08:41:09 hazmat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:36:12 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:52:06 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 12:50:48 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:36:03 hazmat (~ender@209.249.161.137) has joined #swhack 15:00:19 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 15:29:07 kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack 15:29:22 .xena help 15:29:28 xena: help 15:29:32 xena help 15:29:44 xena: of what use are you? 15:29:45 kenm has quit (Client Quit) 15:30:27 .commands 15:30:28 valid commands: 15:30:29 - +mask, -mask, access, acronym, act, babel, beats, billennium, c2f, change 15:30:30 - commands, ctcp, date, dict, die, dns, dtrt, e, email, excuse 15:30:31 - f2c, flight, foldoc, fortune, google, help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon 15:30:32 - join, login, masks, modules, msg, news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer 15:30:33 - part, pig latin, plexname, poker, quit, quote, raw, register, rfc, rot13 15:30:34 - search, seen, server, servers, spell, status, symbol for, time, translate, unixtime 15:30:35 - users, weather, webster, when did, whois, wn, zipcode, zope commands 15:30:46 gack 15:41:34 Morbus (~Morbus@s113.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 15:42:51 Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:46:53 hazmat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:35:05 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:49:22 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 18:38:17 "Change 'email' to 'e-mail', and it looks perfect to me." 18:38:20 * Morbus grumbles. 18:39:28 change 'grumbles' to 'retracts', and it looks prefect to me. 18:39:34 ;) 18:39:39 lol. 18:40:10 you're in with the e-mail crowd too? 18:49:14 no, i'm with knuth on this one. it's email. 18:49:18 * sbp too 18:49:38 Anyone here had that problem where files disappear from your Finder windows on OS X? 18:50:44 Hmm, here's a patch for this bug in 1992's MultiFinder ;) 18:51:10 bwahaha. what problem are you having? 18:51:36 If I open a folder, like /Applications, it'll appear to be empty or only have the apps that are currently open visible. 18:51:42 But you can see all the files in the terminal. 18:51:55 ah. yeah, i saw that a lot in 10.0, but after i went to 10.1, it stopped happening. 18:52:00 it was hella annoying. 18:52:12 It is indeed. Argh. 18:53:03 trouble in paradise? 18:53:39 I just miss the pretty graphics ;) 18:57:33 Gotta run 18:57:37 ah, it fixed itself 18:57:43 AaronSw: , there's a python/cocoa article over at oRA> 18:57:51 Yeah, I chumped it. 18:57:59 yeah, tahts what i would see too. if i just closed out the finder view, and reopened it, all files would be shown. 19:01:46 are there text labels with the icons? 19:03:52 Nope. 19:04:03 and the status bar says 0 items 19:04:23 I figure it's something with the .DS_Store files, I'd guess it's assuming they're all invisible. 19:04:24 "Yes, the money for my gasoline goes to fund monarchies with dismal human rights records, who in turn foment just the sort of anti-American fervor that leads to flight school -- but hey, it's cheap and my Esplanade is thirsty." 19:04:33 i hate those flipping files. 19:07:41 heh, heh: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23922.html 19:07:52 'Chairman Gates "is really annoyed by the incredible pain we put everyone through in computing," Purcell is quoted as saying.' 19:08:00 pfffff. 19:09:03 cool: http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/archives/2002_02_03.shtml#000089 19:10:40 This is sick: 'Two shops in Vancouver were raided last week for selling counterfeit DVDs. Along with the standard "billions and billlions of dollars lost each year" figure, the Motion Picture Association lawyer trotted out the connection that the profits from the sale of these illegal DVDs may help fund organized crime and terrorists.' 19:11:01 whaaa? 19:11:08 that doesn't even begin t... sigh. 19:11:53 ooh, lenticular 19:12:06 where? 19:18:26 did some decent stuff on amphetadesk this weekend. 19:18:29 nothing too brilliant. 19:18:37 mostly log file finagling and better error startup. 19:18:49 and i know for a fact that my wrapper runtime will work on windows. 19:18:54 did some quick testing this weekend. 19:20:17 Cool. 19:22:46 code will be simpler by the time i get done with it though 19:22:58 i fixed up a lot of module circularity, but still some remains. 19:23:04 mostly in the "whcih OS are we using?" code. 19:25:53 * AaronSw finishes today's blogging and disappears to go to work 19:26:06 where you bloggint o? 19:31:05 to radio.weblogs.com/0100663/ for now 19:31:14 Eventually, http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ I think. 19:31:23 you paying for it? 19:31:27 or going to pay for it? 19:31:35 I'm thinkin about it. 19:31:44 I think today I will investigate Zope blogging. 19:34:20 plucky looks nice 19:35:08 Yeah, it's slow though. It seems ot be written in some weird Java thing. 19:35:56 really? hmm. slower than ampheta? 19:35:59 or radio? 19:36:10 It's not comparable, since they don't have GUIs. 19:36:11 not opensource and will beocme shareware. 19:36:12 dammit. 19:36:23 yeah. :) 19:36:25 err :( 19:36:30 that stuff drives men uts. 19:36:34 Heh. 19:36:45 AaronSw has changed the topic to:  that stuff drives men uts. 19:36:51 heheh 19:36:59 what's up with the weird block char? 19:37:06 block char? 19:37:14 on win, i see the "i dunno how to display this char" square right before the to  t 19:37:44 hm? 19:37:53 i dunno 19:37:55 I don't see it. 19:38:04 Oh, maybe it's coloring. 19:38:50 what's the crtl key to background a process? 19:38:58 & 19:39:00 i thought. 19:39:06 /bin/daemon & 19:39:08 no, one that's currently running 19:39:14 oh. not a clue. 19:41:15 there isn't one 19:41:31 there's something that suspends it and then you type bg 19:41:34 you taught it to me 19:41:38 right, ctrl-z 19:41:42 Aha. 19:42:03 I hit Ctrl-S. 19:42:20 Which is very annoying. 19:45:40 The Zope photo product should be named Kai's Photo Zope 19:46:39 heh, heh. 19:48:15 kmacleod (~kmacleod@chomsky.casbah.org) has joined #swhack 19:48:25 hey kmacleod 19:48:27 hey 19:48:57 I can't tell from the rss-dev thread, was generatorAgent resolved? 19:49:16 Morbus? 19:49:31 uh, right now, keareny's bitching about extra attributes in the PI. 19:49:39 he seems to want to use 19:49:39 * kmacleod dang, forgot SF password 19:49:58 hey, on a side note, you did know i was kidding about the whole "shooting my gf" crap, right? 19:50:00 only for 0.9x, rigth? 19:50:07 i hope so. 19:50:13 I hope so too ;) 19:50:26 since this whole discussion came up as a way to solve the comment thing, which was only happening in .9x 19:51:13 right, the "best" solution for 0.9x is a different thing than the "best" thing for 1.0, tho they need not be so wildly different 19:51:39 right. 19:51:53 it kinda bugs me that 0.9x folks have to tippy-toe around and talk about using comments and PIs, but 19:52:01 Hmm, why isn't links asking me for HTTP Auth info? 19:52:28 kmacleod: i'd have to agree. if you need the extra data, upgrade. 19:53:05 or rather, "just do it" 19:53:26 requesting feeds/generators to add new tags should be a non-event 19:54:06 Indeed. 19:54:16 the fact that it isn't is telling about our current status :( 19:54:47 I think if people want to add a generator tag, they should just add it as a normal tag. 19:55:00 right 19:55:16 Does Kearney disagree? 19:55:37 last i knew, kearney admitted that most clients didn't validate against the doctype. 19:56:01 but his focus seems to be on somethign that works with them. 19:56:01 I doubt it. 19:56:34 ah, but He-Who-Must-Be-Catered-To doesn't author the DTDs, and thus coming up with a new one should also be a non-event 19:58:49 or is that not the problem either? /me is so confused now 20:01:00 don't look at me. i haven't been following 20:02:21 This is an interesting error: 20:02:21 Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. 20:02:22 Error Type: NameError 20:02:22 Error Value: global name 'Globals' is not defined 20:08:47 Morbus? 20:09:00 does wkearney hang out anywhere these days? 20:09:07 .seen wkearney 20:09:08 wkearney seen changing nickname to wkearney_99 ~ 41 day(s) 22 hr(s) 35 min(s) 10 sec(s) ago 20:09:09 last i saw him was on #syndicate 20:09:12 .seen wkearney_99 20:09:13 wkearney_99 seen changing nickname to wkearney99 ~ 41 day(s) 22 hr(s) 29 min(s) 28 sec(s) ago 20:09:17 syndic8, you mean 20:09:18 last i saw him was on #syndic8, rather 20:09:21 .seen wkearney99 20:09:21 wkearney99 seen leaving #rdfig [ ] ~ 26 day(s) 19 hr(s) 58 min(s) 28 sec(s) ago 20:09:38 so that would be "no" ;) 20:10:36 he responds quickly to personal email though 20:11:28 .seen tav 20:11:28 tav seen in #swhack saying: [ goodbye all ] ~ 5 day(s) 13 hr(s) 33 min(s) 8 sec(s) ago 20:11:30 hrm. 20:11:43 I'll email then. this has been brought up enough times that if someone just wants to name the tag finally and get it over with, it should be done ;) 20:24:54 How does one undo a C-s? 20:26:09 Ah, C-q 20:33:42 * sbp has gone through reams of paper searching for an old comic strip 20:38:05 Hmm, most of the Zope weblog stuff is pretty sucky. 20:38:20 heh, heh. 20:50:19 "Premature optimization is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - Donald Knuth 20:50:37 AaronSw: movable type is decent if you have perl on your box. 20:50:49 that fits in well with my msg on HTP the other day re. explicit typing ;) 20:50:51 has bookmarklets, blogger api, etc. 20:51:17 doh! http://209.134.132.87/2001/05/mod_admin_draft.html 20:51:18 hmm, movabletype.com is owned by yahoo mail 20:51:37 .org. 20:51:53 why doh? 20:51:53 hey, did you hear this of authorize net and NS 6 (and preumably Moz?) 20:52:06 [[[ 20:52:07 Why? AuthorizeNet requires that the browser sends a referer. 20:52:07 And NS 6.2 doesn't send any referer. Technical support says 'It's 20:52:07 industry standard for browsers to send a referer. It would mean 20:52:07 that we had to change our gateway system because of the change 20:52:07 of a browser.' 20:52:09 ]]] 20:52:26 "doh!" as in "we've done all the work already, really. No, REALLY!" 20:52:42 Heh, heh. 20:53:11 Google must have missed it too, because bitsko.slc went down. 20:53:18 Morbus, hmm -- manila requires referers 20:53:30 someone else just said that NS 621 added referers. 20:53:31 :( I sent in a new form the other day, and it bounced. gotta find the real address 20:55:43 my head hurts. 20:55:46 i shoudl go see a chiropractor. 20:56:18 I used to get real bad neck and shoulder cramps 20:56:35 I realized the problem was that I'd lay my arms on my chair's armrests, which were too high for me. 20:56:44 i don't have chair armrests :) 20:56:54 Heh. I ripped mine out. 20:57:16 yeah, i had used to have chair armrests. they were just too confining. 20:57:42 I wonder if I can hook MT up to zope. 20:57:54 like how? 20:57:57 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-30-131.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 20:58:00 with the blogger api? 20:58:06 have you ever played with WebWare for Python? 20:58:14 a little 20:58:24 hey J 20:58:42 eek, I've missed all today's email on this topic 20:58:52 hi aaron 20:59:16 http://www.redherring.com/insider/2002/0201/1289.html < great article 21:00:39 aha: I've taken on removing the "curried list" experiment where lists become properties which can generate new lists. It messed up cwm. 21:01:05 any work done on that networking code yet? 21:01:16 .seen zooko 21:01:17 zooko seen changing nickname to zooko_configuring_linux_kernel ~ 5 day(s) 20 hr(s) 43 min(s) 53 sec(s) ago 21:01:23 damn 21:01:23 I hope he's ok... 21:01:26 yeah 21:01:32 maybe he's just not using irc 21:01:34 .google zooko 21:01:35 zooko: http://www.zooko.com 21:01:42 He's not updating his weblog either. 21:01:47 oh 21:04:15 i dunno what's going on with mine. 21:04:22 it may be set up this week. derrick should be back from the biocon. 21:04:35 with you rhwat? 21:04:43 "your what", weblog? 21:04:46 yah 21:04:49 ok 21:09:16 .seen tav 21:09:16 tav seen in #swhack saying: [ goodbye all ] ~ 5 day(s) 14 hr(s) 30 min(s) 56 sec(s) ago 21:13:19 odd, I've not *received* any of that email from rss-dev... 21:13:26 zooko mentioned network trouble 21:13:28 maybe that got him 21:14:18 maybe, but when i last spoke to him he got it resolved. 21:15:04 hmm 21:15:35 and he would be probably the best coder we could get for doing the networking, right? 21:15:55 Yeah, definitely. 21:16:15 He's got a lot of experience in distributed systems. 21:16:19 ok 21:19:19 * jeremiah is away: I'm busy 21:21:06 hey, you mentioned me on your blog. i'm swooning. 21:21:16 heh, heh 21:25:48 oh, man, this is freakin' awesome! http://web.mit.edu/~dfhuynh/www/haystack/ozone_new.jpg 21:26:28 whats this? 21:26:35 it's an rdf web browser. 21:27:21 >This message was sent using Haystack Personal Edition. 21:27:21 >Try Haystack Personal Edition free for 30 days! 21:27:23 >Go to http://haystack.lcs.mit.edu/ for more details. 21:27:28 now i get to go through my daily folder, and all those with rss's i get to add to ampheta. yay. 21:27:59 Hm? 21:28:09 i dont see a dl link. 21:28:24 Yeah, me neither. 21:28:33 I think it may be a joke. 21:28:47 whyzzat? 21:29:04 i mean the bit about a "trial version" and $999.99 to upgrade. 21:29:16 yeah, i saw that too. 21:29:20 "The screen you see is described in metadata and rendered using our slide engine. The news is real news. And if you stop typing for a second, you can smell the roses, too." 21:29:42 * Morbus adds aaron to amphetadesk. 21:30:04 "We guarantee to grow your data daily by 200%. If you think you have too much data to handle now, wait until Haystack deduces new data for you!" 21:30:12 heh. 21:30:13 why didn't you add me before? 21:30:40 i had seen your site when you first got RU, but didn't know you were actively blogging. thought it was more of a test bed. 21:30:47 ah 21:31:03 i got a left-link from Dave. 21:31:20 oOOO 21:32:11 well, thats fucked up. 21:32:42 your feed looks all weird in the "my channels" page of ampheta. 21:32:47 Hmm. 21:33:20 oh, i know why. 21:33:22 forget it. 21:33:29 wow. another bug in the sucky "my channels" implementation. sigh. 21:35:19 i'm thinking of eventually putting up a daily build version of ampheta. 21:35:29 but that assumes i can devote taht much time to it. dunno if i can. 21:37:37 TVBarn is using SYP: http://www.tvbarn.com/rss/rss.html 21:37:47 heh, heh 21:38:01 i got an email about julian's rssify and tvbarn. 21:38:16 that page has no title, so ampheta wasn't reading it, so i got a complaint. 21:38:29 jullian's looking int oit tomrrow, but we shifted the user off to your impl. instead ;)( 21:38:36 aha. :0 21:38:45 mine is much better anyway 21:38:46 ;-) 21:38:53 heheh. 21:39:29 That page would come out really ugly in Julian's last time i checked. 21:40:04 didn't really look. i just started at the top, noticed the title was gone, and closed the browser ;) 21:40:22 sigh, i'm two clicks away from deleting your rss.info page. 21:40:29 update it with news, dammit! 21:40:37 That's your job! 21:40:48 what? it was ours, collectively! 21:40:50 Spammer trick: "I'm hoping you can forward this email for me; I'm looking for the person in charge of marketing for your website but I'm not sure I have the correct address. Thanks." 21:41:09 yup, got one of those. 21:41:12 yeah, but if i can pass that job off on someone else, then why should I do it? 21:41:25 ;) 21:41:45 * Morbus removes "newsfeeds" from my ampheta. 21:43:30 * AaronSw wonders if kearney has submitted every radio userland blogger to syndic8 21:43:52 probably. 21:44:17 cool! Vincent Flanders has a radio blog! http://radio.weblogs.com/0101249/ 21:44:25 who's that? 21:44:32 Mr. Web Pages That Suck 21:44:35 aaah. 21:44:57 These are the Daily Suckers -- Examples of Bad Web Design -- from WebPagesThatSuck.com. I couldn't predict every new sucky design technique that would come along when I wrote the book because there's always a new way to do something bad. This page will keep you up-to-date. Live examples. 21:46:50 AaronSw: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zcomix/ 21:46:52 Gates: "I just want you to know that I can write slicker and tighter code than John [Carmack]." That's a laugh! In BASIC, maybe... 21:47:20 ooh, thanks morb 21:47:52 np 21:50:40 gotta run. ttyl 21:50:45 kmacleod has quit ("Leaving") 21:53:12 http://www.creo.com/sixdegrees/ 21:54:09 Joel Spolsky needs Six Degrees, and he knows it. 21:54:14 21:57:33 "Requires Mac OS X." - awesome! 21:58:40 thats right :) 21:58:48 i'm wondering if i should make amphetadesk require os x, so i can do threading. 21:59:10 Hmm, Perl doesn't have threading on OS 9? 21:59:21 nope, there's no "fork" equiv. 21:59:34 the best i can get is a queue system. 21:59:36 forking is diff. than threading 21:59:47 welp, i meant forking. 21:59:55 Hmm. 21:59:55 theres no stable threading in any perl. 22:00:05 aha 22:01:38 Does MT create actual HTML files to display? 22:01:45 yup 22:02:02 its static all the way for final content. 22:02:21 urgh. 22:02:42 why urgh? 22:03:46 It makes it difficult to use it with Zope then... 22:03:59 why's that? 22:04:14 because Zope uses it's own DB instead of the filesystem 22:04:24 ah. well... hmm... 22:04:37 mt uses a DBFile to keep all teh data in there. 22:04:42 it generates the data from that dbfile. 22:04:50 plus i won't be able to do dynamic stuff, will i... like pulling in headlines from here. 22:04:50 can py interact with DBFile? 22:05:02 yeah, you can use php or ssi, or other cgi scripts, sure. 22:05:14 ah. 22:06:38 urgh. DB_File won't compile 22:06:50 in py? 22:06:55 no, perl 22:07:19 ? dunno. i had MT running on my box before i did anything with it live. 22:07:42 version.c:30: db.h: No such file or directory 22:07:42 make: *** [version.o] Error 1 22:08:00 dunno what that is. 22:19:50 [[[ 22:19:53 REUTERS) A 7,000-pound U.S. spacecraft will fall from the sky with a few pieces of metal possibly landing as far north as Orlando, Florida to as far south as Brisbane, Australia. NASA said the Extreme Ultraviolet Explorer (EUVE) could re-enter the Earth's atmosphere as early as 10 p.m. EST January 30 or as late as 7 a.m. EST January 31, 2002. The map above shows the swath within which the satellite will fall. NASA expects the debris field to be betwee 22:19:53 ]]] 22:20:04 http://poopoochoochoo.com/satellite_crash_map.gif 22:20:15 Tie '/usr/local/share/mt/db/blog.db' failed: No such file or directory 22:21:12 oh, i needed ot mkdir db 22:22:43 @ http://av.con.ca/stuff/Generic_stuff/best_picture_ever.jpg 22:23:03 B: http://av.con.ca/stuff/Generic_stuff/best_picture_ever.jpg from Morbus 22:23:16 B:|Best... picture... ever! 22:23:17 titled item B 22:23:43 Clearly this is not for me to understand. 22:24:35 hehe, no, you're too young. 22:24:39 man, i've always wanted to say that. 22:24:45 heheh 22:24:46 22:25:29 what the... 22:25:36 i just got an error on your blogspace.com/swhack/weblog 22:25:42 big long fucking error. 22:26:10 Tcl errors are rather verbose. 22:26:18 oop. gone nowl 22:38:52 man, my flippign head hurts. 22:39:16 http://www.macminute.com/lib/020204xupdate.shtml 22:53:18 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 23:11:05 Morbus (~Morbus@s90.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 23:28:21 * Morbus works on amphetadesk. 23:50:05 * sbp works on his comic strip 23:55:07 actually, it's done, but it has a serious problem: it's not funny. Not even a little bit 23:55:07 according to all who have reviewed it, anyway 23:55:07 which is limited for the time being to my Mum and myself 23:55:07 in fact, I couldn't even come up with any new jokes, so they're just old jokes from like a year ago 23:55:08 *sigh* 23:55:58 hey, is this a good error message: "No settings file was found. Please reinstall AmphetaDesk." 23:56:02 ? 23:58:10 Yeah, if you're a Microsoft programmer. 23:58:31 why do you need to reinstall for a simple settings file? 23:59:22 you don't. i'm just ebing lazy. good point. 23:59:28 its easy to make anyways. 2002-02-05.txt0100644000014300000000000016615707430070366011706 0ustar nobodyroot00:00:19 In that case, the error message should be: "No settings file was found. The programmer was just ebing lazy." 00:00:25 heh. 00:01:14 thanks for that. 00:01:15 ebing away like the oceans 00:01:22 ebbing. 00:01:28 uh huh 00:01:56 or, it could be a mispelling for a Macintosh microwave timer: the iBing 00:02:04 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:02:29 O.K., maybe not 00:03:56 hey GabeW 00:04:28 * AaronSw thinks more about weblog software 00:04:43 Hmph, good point - I was writing my own 00:04:51 Oh, you were? 00:04:57 Oh... blogster 00:05:09 I thought, instead of doing crappy permalinks, I could just hash the things, and let the Plex take over :-) 00:05:11 hey - retail america hates me 00:05:23 Ooh. 00:05:46 I've ordered 3 major things to be delivered and all of them have been delayed and/or screwed up in the last few weeks 00:06:15 so, in fact, you hate retail America 00:06:43 Let me guess: you ordered them online. 00:07:38 yep 00:07:53 stuff i couldn't get in stores 00:08:41 tansaku (~sam@n146-015.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 00:08:47 one of the few things I ordered online was a book, which incredibly got here in just a few days 00:09:02 I ordered a monitor (rather expensive one) last thursday, and Fedex has *lost* it. 00:09:18 from America. I wouldn't even have expected that speed if it were sent from the UK 00:09:31 cdw has no idea where it is, but they swear up down left and right that they handed it to Fedex 00:09:51 I paid $150 to get it delivered on Saturday (order placed Thursday) 00:10:22 I honestly think CDW screwed up if there is no fedex shipping number (which there isn't) 00:10:44 so far: alienwaresucks.com & cdwsucks.com ;-) 00:10:58 AaronSw: replaced my stupid code with a new "create file if doesn't exist" which fails with "Could not create the AmphetaDesk mySettings.xml file:" error. 00:11:20 Cool. 00:12:01 "Could not create the AmphetaDesk mySettings.xml file: reinstall your OS" 00:12:13 GabeW, that sucks. CDW's warehouse is a short drive from here, maybe I should pick it up for you :) 00:12:23 .whois cdwsucks.com 00:12:25 CDWSUCKS.COM registered to nobody expires on 27-Jan-2003 00:12:46 if it belongs to nobody, how are they going to re-register it? 00:12:59 Heh. s/nobody/Dave Walton/ 00:13:10 just a slight typo there, eh? 00:13:22 You know xena./ 00:13:50 no? who is she? 00:14:17 and whatever happend to (non-baby) tav? 00:14:33 the whois response parser is very simplistic 00:14:33 s/happend/happened/ 00:15:21 e.g. 044803Z sindication.com registered to nobody expires on rk Solutions' WHOIS database is provided by Network 00:17:25 sbp: he's around but not on irc 00:17:42 Ah, cool. 00:17:47 yesterday he sent me mail asking for Berkeley DB to be re-installed 00:17:48 I was thinking of registering some domain sucks. and then hosting a bunch of third level domains and putting together some community system for people to post gripes.. 00:18:07 That'd be cool. 00:18:18 http://freespeechcenter.org/ 00:18:41 and then somehow get the companies to pay me money as an outsourced "complaint management" center or somesuch ;-) 00:18:56 ooh ooh 00:19:09 don't use visio 2000 under any circumstances ifyou don't want to lose files 00:19:41 files in general? 00:20:32 visio files that you have open - it will corrupt them, even if you don't try to save them if you lose power while visio is on (not every time apaprently though) 00:21:17 ah 00:21:23 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q278261 00:21:31 Its really amazing that business software would do this 00:21:47 the only safe option (which I amforced to do) is upgrade to visio 2002 00:22:13 work on copies? 00:24:06 uh, thats evil - you basically have to hand copy the file (and close the file you are editing to do this, mind you) periodically 00:24:14 its screwy beyond belief 00:25:04 :-( 00:26:14 well, this is dumb 00:32:00 Aaron: "UFOish cloud formations": I think they're called "Lenticular clouds" 00:32:12 .google Lenticular clouds 00:32:13 Oh, that must be what deltab meant. 00:32:13 Lenticular clouds: http://vortex.plymouth.edu/clouds.html 00:32:26 As Rael said: I WANT TO BELIEVE! 00:34:23 @ http://eastgate.com/Tinderbox/ 00:34:28 A: Eastgate Tinderbox™: the tool for notes from AaronSw 00:34:34 ugh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1800000/1800842.stm 00:34:37 A::"We're just days away!" 00:34:40 commented item A 00:34:52 A::$95 bucks? sheesh. 00:34:53 commented item A 00:35:07 ooh, interesting. well, if it were free and exported as RDF, and... 00:35:29 I bet RDF'll be in the next version. 00:35:32 A:: 00:35:32 http://eastgate.com/Tinderbox/ 00:35:33 Eastgate Tinderbox™: the tool for notes 00:35:34 (AaronSw) "We're just days away!" 00:35:35 (Morbus) $95 bucks? sheesh. 00:35:36 crud 00:35:41 I have a feeling hey don't want me coming out to bang on their heads again. 00:35:45 crud for what? 00:35:46 A::"""Tinderbox files use XML, """ Yes? And? 00:35:48 commented item A 00:36:02 that's actually what it says: it stops with a comma 00:36:06 Heh. 00:37:17 A::Well, their [other product|http://eastgate.com/Storyspace.html] is $295... 00:37:19 commented item A 00:37:22 heh - criteria for getting into space:- 00:37:23 [[[ 00:37:23 Qualifications 00:37:23 Very rich 00:37:24 Speaks English 00:37:24 Good health 00:37:25 Disqualification 00:37:27 Drugs 00:37:29 Alcohol abuse 00:37:31 Criminal, disgraceful or infamous behaviour 00:37:33 ]]] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1795000/1795537.stm 00:37:39 Pff, IE copied that out well 00:37:40 infamous behavior?! 00:37:41 goddamit., 00:37:53 yeah, I like that bit 00:39:35 A::This is what I'd like to use for my weblog... not sure that it's OS X compatible though. 00:39:38 commented item A 00:40:23 Kick-ass: """The chairman of a top arts body has resigned after saying British art was in danger of "disappearing up its own arse".""" - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_512903.html?menu=news.quirkies 00:40:29 A:|Eastgate Tinderbox: the tool for notes 00:40:30 titled item A 00:40:46 not a champion of conceptual art, it seems 00:41:08 A:|Eastgate Tinderbox: the tool for notes 00:41:10 titled item A 00:42:03 WTF? """Mr Besinski said: "In 22 years of being in local, state and federal courts, I've never seen anything like this," said Bresinski, a former police sergeant.""" - http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_512750.html?menu=news.quirkies 00:42:25 not only do they repeat themselves repeat themselves, but they missspel his name too 00:42:40 Heh, heh. 00:43:29 I saw a funny police quote yesterday. 00:45:02 What was it? 00:45:17 getting it... 00:45:33 .google perl ocs parser 00:45:34 perl ocs parser: http://www.perl.com/cs/user/query/q/6?id_topic=1 00:45:39 Former federal prosecutor Bruce Taylor: "Pornography is awful for guys: It affects their attitudes toward sex. It makes them sexually insensitive and jerks toward women, at least. At most, when it becomes an addiction, it becomes an element of psychosis." 00:45:43 - http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0201/p13s01-altv.html 00:46:49 heh, heh 00:47:08 I like how the it starts with the word "Former" 00:47:14 Heh, heh. 00:47:16 Also: "He points to an FBI profile of serial murderers and sex offenders conducted over a period of 20 years. Nearly all of them, he says, were addicted to adult and child pornography." 00:47:23 This is surprising? 00:47:46 well, this is lame. 00:47:48 But what about all the find upstanding citizens also addicted to adult and child pornography? 00:47:53 s/find/fine/ 00:48:12 interalchemy has removed mention of its XML::OCS perl module 00:48:13 Clearly their readership doesn't know about converse errors. 00:49:03 The movabletype site needs screenshots. 00:49:06 .google xml::oc 00:49:07 xml::oc: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-committers/2001-05/msg00332.php 00:49:13 aaron, i'll get you some hold on. 00:49:31 http://movabletype.org/screenshots/screenshot-admin-menu.html 00:49:37 that whole directory 00:49:42 aha, thanks! 00:49:42 .google xml::ocs download 00:49:43 xml::ocs download: http://www.opensource.co.kr/opensource/dir.php3?code=3314&page=11 00:51:59 er... right: http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,644896,00.html 00:53:39 What's an MP? 00:53:43 Member of Parliment? 00:54:11 gotta run: dinner 00:54:28 military police 00:56:05 the former 01:02:55 ampheta's coming along nicely. 01:03:03 already shaved off 20k of dumb code. 01:05:46 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:11:55 and added it in comments, I hope 01:12:12 heh, no :) 01:12:24 i'm just streamlining a lot of the settings code right now. 01:32:05 Why don't they name the MPs? 01:38:52 Hmm, the TAG has my issue on the agenda, but they mispelled my name. 01:40:47 heh, heh 01:40:49 TimBL mispelled your site as well... 01:40:53 [in the Webizing Python notes] 01:41:01 uri? 01:42:08 http://www.w3.org/2002/Talks/0206-python/all.htm 01:42:20 Hmm, where'd you see that? 01:42:41 Heh: 01:42:42 RDF IG Chump 01:42:43 Python is fun 01:42:52 * Thank you Guido 01:43:37 where is your issue on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ilist? 01:43:46 it's not there yet, i guess 01:43:49 s/on/in/ 01:44:47 Heh. AaronSwartz 01:45:51 Heh! "R.........n" 01:50:17 yeah 01:50:29 * deus_x just started parsing RSS with python. 01:51:09 Cool, what're you using? 01:51:13 I hadn't realized that RSS seemed to have forked, yet retained the same name. 01:51:32 umm... [cough] 01:51:38 AaronSw: I started using Orchard as Peerkat does, but then I thought it'd be fun just to use the plain old xml modules 01:51:55 What do you mean by forked? 01:52:24 AaronSw: Well, there's an RDF-based RSS in v0.9 and v1.0 and there something else called RSS v0.91 and v0.92 which is non-RDF. 01:52:35 * Morbus smiles 01:52:42 Life is funny like that. 01:52:45 I'm sure this is not news... was to me though. (Sensing a can of worms) 01:52:54 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 01:53:07 Heh. I was playing with Zope -- it's Zope's fault! 01:53:12 (to wmf) 01:53:17 suuure, blame Zope 01:53:26 heh, heh. 01:53:37 o/` Blame Canada^WZope! o/` 01:53:46 ooh, i think i'll listen to that cd. 01:54:47 hey morb, how do I get apache to execute CGIs? 01:54:54 part 2, bitch 01:54:58 Heh. 01:55:03 :) 01:55:34 Heh, some Zope site beats you out on google for "morbus part 2" 01:55:38 allosx.com 01:55:48 ahhh... heh. yeah, i posted it there. 01:57:07 Paul really ripped into me about that whole "reliability" thing... 02:02:34 * deus_x finds explanations for the RSS "fork" thing. Fun fun. 02:02:47 Heh, heh 02:03:11 Why does Apache keep giving me Forbidden on scripts. 02:03:32 * AaronSw reads on 02:03:46 Oh, this is another one of Morbus' we'll tell them to do the wrong thing tricks. 02:04:55 that was the only one silly. you complained about it in the draft ;) 02:12:31 Hmm, funny... these modules seem like a good idea. :) 02:13:08 * deus_x feels *so* behind. :) 02:14:29 kick ass. my new settings module for amphetadesk works nicely. 02:15:58 what user is MT running as? 02:16:18 without changes by you, whatever user your webserver is. 02:16:39 Oh yeah, I was going to get MT to run entries past a wiki... 02:16:47 which on os x is www/www 02:17:12 on debian it looks like www-data... 02:17:48 Ooh! It's so pretty! 02:17:58 Hehe, that was my first impression, too. 02:18:21 Even the default blog template is beautiful 02:18:33 of course the rss is 0.91 -- gotta fix that... 02:18:41 its supposed to be better in 2.0, which is out in early march 02:18:49 they got christina wodke to UI it. 02:18:56 who's that? 02:19:01 elegant hack? 02:19:12 Ah. 02:20:04 AaronSw: what are you setting up? 02:20:14 Movable Type - movabletype.org 02:20:17 so recently I've lost all inhibitions about falling asleep early, when I'm tired I just go to sleep now :) 02:20:24 tis a good system. it has my vote. 02:20:26 that's what I guessed 02:20:49 I want to use Tinderbox, but I don't thinkit's carbonized 02:25:00 * jeremiah nods to everyone 02:26:58 Hmm, I wonder if MT can import from Radio. 02:27:09 there's a discussion on the supprt boards about that. 02:27:15 kearney brought it up. 02:27:17 what's the current status? 02:27:20 and supposedly hacked something. 02:27:30 dunno, didn't get into it. 02:34:17 Nice! The Apache config that comes with debian supports Cool URIs (w/o .htm and such) by default... or maybe it's MT. 02:34:44 probably the Apache 02:34:50 yeah, it's apache. 02:35:14 That's really nice. Now I just need to convince MT to drop the .html everywhere 02:35:28 that's defined in your Blog Settings, I believe 02:36:38 I changed it and it doesn't seem to have done anything. 02:36:46 you have to rebuild your files. 02:36:50 i did that 02:37:09 it still created them all with .html files? 02:37:13 yeah 02:37:23 that may be a built in default. 02:37:24 lemme check. 02:39:22 yeah: lib/MT/Util.pm: my $ext = $blog->file_extension || 'html'; 02:39:44 yup. i'm assuming you just removed the text, which would ... yeah. 02:39:48 just change that... 02:39:57 but then i'll get files named index. 02:40:02 "index." 02:40:24 if you're leery about changing the code (heh), you can always override everything within your template settins. 02:40:56 if you're using monthly templaets, for instance, 02:41:22 well, like, in gamegrene.com, I've selected "individual" archive types. 02:41:25 I don't think that'll help since they're all just <$MTArchiveLink$> 02:41:33 which by default would be ID.$ext 02:41:40 but, I've overwritten that by saying: <$MTEntryCategory dirify="1"$>/<$MTEntryTitle dirify="1"$>.shtml 02:41:46 ah. 02:41:53 you could easily do: <$MTEntryCategory dirify="1"$>/<$MTEntryTitle dirify="1"$> 02:42:08 which, in gamegrene's case, would be "game_material/title" 02:46:18 GabeW2 (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 02:46:27 I think if I just comment out $file .= '.' . $ext; 02:46:52 that'd work too, but you'd just have to remember to do that on upgrades. 02:47:18 you didn't want to override the archives? 02:47:53 Why would I do that? 02:48:11 because you can do that without messing with the source code. 02:48:13 Oh... hmm. 02:48:42 my new settings thing for ampheta rocks. 02:48:50 This screwed up the file names... ugh. 02:48:53 well, the code does at least. 02:48:57 what's that? 02:49:58 i thought that i'd only get the links with that change, but it renamed the files too. 02:50:37 right - if you change the archive filenames (in the blog configuration), and then rebuild, it will create brand new sets with that new structure. 02:50:56 Yeah, I see. 02:51:57 GabeW has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:54:17 Hmm, how do I do the calendar? 02:54:26 dunno. never used it. 02:56:10 jeremiah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:01:20 GabeW2 is now known as GabeW 03:09:36 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:18:19 i'm getting a cold. i know it. 03:18:22 i'm getting off. 03:18:28 gotta read or rest or something 03:18:31 make some tea. i dunno. 03:18:38 "Java's list syntax is hideous." - http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html 03:19:45 feel better morb 03:19:55 thanks 03:19:58 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 03:21:43 hey, i know glyph -- he's one of the people messing with pychord 03:27:28 there's some totally bogus code in that article 03:27:47 java code, I assume? 03:27:52 yeah 03:28:17 you should email him.. 03:28:26 doesn't look like he's on now 03:29:19 the quote about lists is right on, although slightly misleading because Java doesn't *have* a syntax for lists 03:32:54 no use writing him: "I am aware that I did not choose optimal (or even necessarily equivalent) algorithms for the Java test cases." 03:33:31 he didn't say he did it on purpose, did he? 03:34:00 I don't see any particular reason listed 03:35:38 anyway, I think he's right that Python is better than Java 1.1, but it isn't relevant any more 04:06:32 .mail 04:06:37 .email 04:06:38 usage: email [ //]  04:06:39 - send email from irc! just specify the email address you want to send it to. 04:06:40 - you can also provide an optional subject line, provided you close it with // 04:07:16 .email wmf@voicestream.net testing // check, check... 04:07:17 email successfully sent. 04:09:21 This show divs and spans bookmarklet is awesome: http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/000300.php#000300 04:12:48 hmm, my phone is not getting mail 04:13:11 Hmm. 04:38:31 ok, the mail is going though 04:52:10 thats good 05:01:58 Cool, got a Python script to do Radio->MovableType 05:04:39 xml export saves the day again 05:05:10 along with regexps and shell scripting 05:07:19 that was fast 05:07:35 10 line python script 05:07:45 Oops. Anyone know the python command to expand HTML entities? 05:16:15 * AaronSw uses: for e in htmlentitydefs.entitydefs: body = re.sub('&'+e+';', htmlentitydefs.entitydefs[e], body) 05:26:03 * wmf upgrades to a new wallet 05:26:22 Heh. A Microsoft Wallet? 05:26:26 no 05:27:06 Major new features? Does it support Cocoa? 05:27:38 no new features, but it has fewer holes than the old one 05:28:22 You could have just grabbed the latest security patches. 05:28:47 no, I wanted a fresh one 05:29:36 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 05:32:02 @ http://www.mozilla.org.uk/docs/spell-checker-faq 05:32:07 B: Mozilla Spell-checker FAQ from wmf 05:32:20 B::"Is a spell-checker a requirement for Mozilla 1.0?" 05:32:21 commented item B 05:32:28 B::"No." 05:32:29 commented item B 05:32:38 B::"But..." 05:32:40 commented item B 05:32:43 B::"No." 05:32:45 commented item B 05:33:23 Heh: """Please don't try and threaten us with "I'll go and use IE 6! I will! And then you'll be sorry..." or "Mozilla will be a laughing stock without a spell-checker!" or "The customer is always right. Cower before my mighty consumer power!" People do this and think it'll have an effect, but we really don't care. And you aren't our customer (but that's another debate.) I suggest you direct your energies in more constructive directions - like, for example, lear 05:34:41 lol: "I hope that Mozilla 1.0 will have native widget support for Windows 2005." 05:40:11 "The basic problem is that DivXNetworks stole the name of the very popular hacked codec, bought the domainname, went legit with an entirely different codec, and then put up a FAQ which basically denies the existence of the codec who's name they stole. Seem a little scummy to you?" 05:42:03 B::"I can't code. Can I test it out?" 05:42:03 B::"Yes, if you sign the Non-Disclosure Agreement giving us the ability to enter your house, raid your fridge and assault your cat." *They better watch out -- I think Microsoft has a copyright on that NDA.* 05:42:05 commented item B 05:42:06 commented item B 05:42:22 Seems very scummy indeed. 05:42:33 At least it wasn't bought by those awful DRM DVD folks 05:43:13 that AC also forgot to mention the whole Project Mayo fiasco 05:43:34 AC? 05:43:45 I was quoting an AC from /. 05:43:58 Ah. 05:44:04 hey AaronSw 05:44:06 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:44:10 wb tansaku, GabeW 05:44:23 you got a copy of your submission to O'Reilly emerging fluff? 05:44:30 hi all 05:44:37 hi GabeW 05:44:44 somewhere around here... it obviously wasn't very good. 05:44:47 whats the deal with raggin' on the oreilly conf? 05:44:55 search me? 05:45:19 AaronSw, I'd be interested in taking a look - mail me at sam@neurogrid.com ? 05:45:38 fogetaboutit 05:45:41 just a sec -- i'll hunt for the url 05:45:46 GabeW, you mean emerging FUD? 05:45:51 is that it? 05:45:52 watttever .., 05:46:14 well, I feel like I"m missing out on a meme here 05:46:32 http://logicerror.com/etPlexTalk 05:46:57 GabeW, I think people are just sour that they're backing away from P2P. 05:47:12 tansaku, it's at http://logicerror.com/etPlexTalk 05:47:26 thanks 05:47:48 calling something an "Emerging Technology" conference is like saying a "miscellaneous stuff" conference 05:47:56 ahh 05:47:56 Actually with O'Reilly only asking for one page proposals like this, it's difficult to tell one submission apart from the next 05:48:00 no -- NEW miscellaneous stuff! 05:48:16 I'm still sour at them for rejecting me from both of their P2P conferences 05:48:17 I think actually that would be kewl if you attracted only the right people 05:48:19 Yeah -- I figured they'd email me if they were at all interested. :( 05:48:55 some people, e.g. me, feel they overlook interesting novel projects in favour of big corporate types who are likely to pay sponsorship fees 05:48:59 I'd want to hear 'bout routing stuff re: linux, wacky things with lisp, interesting p2p stuff - all thats pretty misc. 05:49:02 they send out the accept/reject mails at the same time AFAIK 05:49:08 well that's the way it goes I suppose 05:49:34 wmf, did you reject our proposals? 05:49:53 I am no longer serving in the O'Reilly Illuminati 05:49:55 I'm used to academic conferences where who you work for isn't supposed to count - I get rejected from those as well, but at least it's for technical reasons 05:50:00 heh 05:50:14 at least you submit! 05:50:36 codecon looks interesting because its seems relatively 'raw' 05:50:49 yeah, maybe I should've gone for that 05:51:04 anyway there's another p2p workshop coming up in europe soon 05:51:09 hopefully we will have a paper in OSDI this year 05:51:10 dude, everyone who is everyone (at least on #infoanarchy) is going to be there.. 05:51:18 I was really thrilled to hear there 're gonna be CodeCon webcasts. 05:51:22 d00d 05:51:34 at least the MIT people gave me good feedback - I'll use it to work on the next submission 05:51:46 what sort of feedback? 05:52:04 yeah, but codecon is kind of crypto focused - I wanted to focus on P2P, that's why I went for the MIT thing 05:52:14 hrm? 05:52:22 codecon is not focused on crypto, really... 05:52:39 GabeW: well they gave me names of authors of papers I should read, and stuff 05:53:08 GabeW: better than some reviewers, who just say you've ignored all the really important work in the field and then don't tell you what it is 05:53:45 hmm, maybe I need to look again at codecon, but the brief says "bringing together people from the crypto community" etc. 05:53:47 it's so important so you should obviously know 05:53:59 I mean I know they are targetting other groups as well 05:54:24 AaronSw: right - I mean eventually with enough good rejections I'll complete a literature review of P2P search 05:54:30 hehe 05:55:05 codecon seems more like the "kewl misc. things these type of peoplea re doing" more than anything else 05:55:05 Cool, the MT import worked beautifully. 05:55:57 "4ghz of 05:55:57 Hot P4 Action is meaningless to an application that requires more than 05:55:57 4gb of process address space. 05:55:58 " 05:56:33 GabeW: codecon probably will be cool, but I've kind of missed my slot - next year maybe I'll be based in the bay area and I'll check it out 05:56:48 Umm... I don't think I run any of those apps. ;-) 05:58:10 that's because they plex isn't written yet :-) 05:58:12 tansaku - you should publish a bibliography 05:58:28 Heh, heh. 05:59:01 Librarians love bibliographies - its like hitting paydirt 05:59:06 Even the Plex has a limit of 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096 nodes. 05:59:21 actually, it's probably that cubed. 05:59:23 dude, time for plexv6 05:59:48 Heh, heh, heh -- that'd have 2410312426921032588580116606028314112912093247945688951359675039065257391591803200669085024107346049663448766280888004787862416978794958324969612987890774651455213339381625224770782077917681499676845543137387820057597345857904599109461387122099507964997815641342300677629473355281617428411794163967785870370368969109221591943054232011562758450080579587850900993714892283476646631181515063804873375182260506246992837898705971012525843324 06:00:02 stop it AaronSw - you're wasting perfectly good cpu cycles 06:00:22 For a good cause! 06:00:22 GabeW: http://www.neurogrid.net/publications/publications.html 06:01:02 man, you actually write a lot 06:02:15 man, I like actually am an academic 06:02:22 You should cite your own papers under different psuedonyms, to give the illusion of a major research review 06:02:28 and that's not including my non-technical stuff 06:02:42 tansaku: hey, at least you don't *look* like an academic 06:02:56 http://www.japaninc.com/contents.php?issueID=2 06:03:03 http://japaninc.com/mag/comp/2001/07/jul01_creativity.html 06:03:26 wmf: yeah, and that cost a pretty penny in plastic surgery I can tell you ... 06:03:32 wmf: yeah, and that cost a pretty penny in plastic surgery I can tell you ... 06:04:00 * tansaku gets confused with his keyboard - the neural regenerative work didn't quite take properly 06:04:49 ouch - cfp2002 is $585 06:04:53 Doesn't J@pan know that @s are n@ l@nger C@@L? 06:05:07 AaronSw: n@pe 06:05:39 but they sell stuff in Japan, and the marketing rules are different over here ... 06:05:44 bbs 06:05:55 * tansaku slips off to bathe in some Japanese paperwork 06:06:23 http://www.realworldtech.com/index.cfm 06:06:28 * GabeW needs to spend his precious few cycles on BEEP, not IRC.. sigh 06:06:30 er, no 06:06:38 http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=517&Thread=2&entryID=4311&roomID=13 06:06:58 We could talk on IRC-over-BEEP if that would help 06:07:17 well, unless you were writing beep as we were talking.. 06:07:30 BEEP-over-IRC... 06:07:30 When it comes to writing code, I need more than a half hour to be productive 06:09:26 at least when it comes to things like BEEP! 06:22:09 wmf has quit ("zzz") 06:28:45 nite all 06:29:13 it 06:29:14 nite 07:15:56 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 08:27:52 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:28:52 tansaku2 (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 08:31:46 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 10:50:09 DoidT (~besirc@host217-35-151-152.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 10:52:46 Hi. Just dropping by while I can run an IRC client. 10:53:16 tav is around - I spoke to him yesterday about doing some KnowNow stuff 11:14:52 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:15:34 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 11:42:26 DoidT is now known as doid 11:42:39 bumbling around in the kitchen 12:26:00 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:44:15 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 13:52:17 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:07:46 * sbp waves 14:07:58 * sbp just got in before it started pissing it down 14:09:17 yeah, just started thundering here 14:11:31 Gah. Old cam link gone. 14:13:19 Hmm... the sun's out again down here. Just a shower 14:14:32 Sky clears in Hammersmith too, a picture would've been better 14:22:09 Morbus (~Morbus@s87.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 14:26:23 Mr. M. How are things? 14:26:29 goign well. 14:26:32 just working on ampheta. 14:26:45 ooh, full-time Amphy updates now? 14:26:59 well, i dunno. i'm justworking on the modularization now. 14:27:03 and that's a big task. 14:27:27 Good luck, I'll give it a go 14:27:44 give what a go? 14:27:45 right at this moment, i actually blackboxed the settings stuff. 14:27:55 Amphetadesk 14:28:01 so instead of referring directly to the settings data, I use get_setting and set_setting now. 14:28:23 ah 14:28:36 heh: set_setting 14:28:52 [sound of Morbus set_setting away] 14:31:50 heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20020205.html 14:32:06 "it's all natural!" 14:32:25 heh! http://www.snoopy.com/comics/peanuts/archive/peanuts-20020201.html 14:48:35 not good. 14:48:38 i broke ampheta. whee. 14:52:42 Morbus: can I use it in Linux? I know it says mac, win, source 14:52:55 yeah, you can use it in linux, 14:53:09 there are some idiotic stupiidities in the source, but they're easily fixed. 14:53:37 There'll be delays from me - I'm off to Linux, later 14:59:09 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 15:03:31 Morbus (~Morbus@s87.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 15:23:08 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 15:29:39 oh, well - I got it running, but I'll need a linux install with a connection 15:29:40 duh 15:29:49 Heh. 15:31:34 so I'm going to do another install... 15:32:22 Ampheta isn't that great... yet. 15:33:22 dunno, but I'll need a reader for when I don't want to run Radio 15:33:49 Yeah. It's really nice, but my biggest problem is that it doesn't let you do deletes and that sort of thing. 15:37:24 sorry, I've got screen freezes of 2 mins as a vm swaps out of memory 15:37:52 Deletes of what? 15:38:20 ick, 15:38:22 of news items 15:38:53 Ah, you only want to save the good ones 15:39:25 Starting a new install... 15:49:51 so that's going on 15:49:59 see sleepycat 4 out? 15:50:11 hmm. no 15:50:37 yeah, there was a press release and stuff 15:52:14 http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.020402/220352228 15:58:01 Heh! New features include "High Availability. High Availability uses a technique called 'replication' to keep multiple copies of a database, stored in different places, up to date." and "Group Commit." 15:58:50 And the one feature they didn't mention: We changed the interface all around again in random ways to drive more money to our consulting business... 15:59:26 It sounds sort of like this spam: "YES, you can generate some income thru INTERNET! I mean you can use the internet as your marketplace to help sell some products and earn generous COMMISSION." 16:01:13 you cynic 16:01:20 Heh, heh 16:01:28 I thought you thought sleepycat was good 16:01:53 I do think so, but I always like making fun of press releases. 16:02:10 Maybe it comes from having written some. 16:02:17 I'd say its not enronic, which is my new word 16:02:33 Who's cynical now? 16:02:48 hehe, back ina few mins 16:06:10 chumpster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 16:06:10 deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 16:09:17 Argh, crappy Java! 16:09:52 The list syntax is beyond belief 16:10:29 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 16:10:29 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 16:11:16 It's not a syntax. 16:14:46 my sys has lost its cdrom halfway through install 16:14:57 poked it with a paperclip and all's well 16:15:27 not a syntax: indeed. I should have said "implementation" 16:16:00 argh, it's just a horking pile of junk 16:16:08 is the plex using java? 16:16:20 no 16:16:30 ah 16:16:54 AaronSw has left #swhack 16:17:03 AaronSw (~Snak@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 16:17:38 example annoyance: you have a Vector full of MyClass instances. You do vector.elementAt(i).myMethod(), and it barfs all over you for trying to call myMethod on the Object class. Aaaaaargh! 16:18:20 you can't do __init__(self, args*) either: you have to enumerate the damn list 16:18:33 well, I cheated... I feed it a list 16:19:11 I think in Python you can do __init__(self, (e1, e2, e3), bar) 16:19:33 yes 16:19:34 wow, neat 16:19:58 I would try that in Java, but the compiler would melt 16:20:08 heh 16:20:49 [sbp's computer glows red hot, starts shaking, and melts into a pile of goo on the table] 16:20:57 Well, guess I'll have to buy an iMac now! 16:21:08 lol 16:26:58 sbp: are you a regular cwm user? 16:27:26 sbp is the preeminant cwm user 16:27:42 ahh, I was getting that impression 16:28:16 I've been downloading all these python files, see 16:28:48 and beginiing to think about learning to get them to do stuff 16:29:01 so I've got some reading there 16:29:38 Cool. Python is fun. 16:29:57 I wrote http://infomesh.net/2001/cwm/ 16:30:14 Yes, I've seen that and environs 16:30:20 cool 16:30:33 Some of the source files are very recent 16:31:00 yeah, they do get updated fairly regularly 16:31:17 Tim has been messing about with Llyn, I presume 16:32:07 I did get that, but as I say, haven't got these files doing anything at the moment 16:32:29 well... they're quite pretty. Print them out and hang them on your wall! 16:32:37 [I actually considered doing that] 16:32:46 Funny, I enjoy reading them 16:33:11 Install finished, back in a few 16:33:17 O.K. 16:52:31 Home of the Horkin' HTML 16:57:32 heh, heh 16:58:00 Hm, my #include isn't working 16:58:19 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 17:03:15 argh. what's wrong with this? 17:03:29 is the file in the same dir? 17:03:33 yep 17:03:36 otherwise, you need to use virtual 17:04:00 try it anyway: 17:04:05 it seems like it isn't being parsed at all 17:04:32 had the same problem with virtual 17:04:49 the file is named foo.shtml, i turned .shtml on in httpd.conf 17:05:03 I restarted apache 17:06:45 ah. mod_include wasn't loaded 17:18:45 Aside from section 5, the MT license seems reasonably like free software 17:23:22 Hmm. the one I'm reading doesn't have a section 5 17:23:55 That's odd. 17:24:37 Here's one with a section 5: http://www.movabletype.org/legal-license.html 17:25:13 Here's one without 17:25:16 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html 17:25:33 Ah. I said MT not MIT. 17:25:44 Too many licenses. 17:25:55 The MIT license is very nice. Short and sweet. 17:26:31 Oops misread 17:26:34 Although I think my favorite license is the DanC license: "Share and enjoy." 17:27:00 cool 17:31:50 sbp has quit ("Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.2") 17:32:02 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 17:32:41 Hmm, never seen that before. 17:36:45 "'Share and Enjoy' is, of course, the company motto of the hugely successful Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints Division, which now covers the major land masses of three medium-size planets..." 17:36:53 :-) 17:37:08 (from the Hitchhiker's Guide, of course) 17:37:29 DanC was always an HHGTTG fan. 17:37:41 .jargon share and enjoy 17:37:42 error: unable to define share and enjoy 17:37:47 I'd forgot that, didn't come up on google search 17:37:49 http://websites.ntl.com/~sunshine/realhhg/hhgshare.htm 17:37:51 .jargon share_and_enjoy 17:38:07 Hmm, and it is in the jargon as "share and enjoy!" 17:38:17 -- 17:38:20 Share and enjoy!     imp.     1. Commonly found at the end of software release announcements and README files, this phrase indicates allegiance to the hacker ethic of free information sharing (see hacker ethic, sense 1). 2. The motto of the complaints division of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation (the ultimate gaggle of incompetent suits) in Douglas Adams's "Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The irony of using this as a cultural recognition signal appeals to hac 17:38:20 -- 17:38:51 Funny, I just finished listening to the HHGTG audiobook in MP3s last week. 17:39:18 wow, bought or downloaded? 17:39:49 What was it that Sirius wanted you to share...? I can't remember. 17:40:14 Had it on CD, ripped it to MP3 for listening at work while I took the set back home 17:45:09 sbp has quit ("I shouldn't really be here - dircproxy 1.0.2") 17:45:18 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 17:46:05 WTF: 17:45:09 sbp has quit ("I shouldn't really be here - dircproxy 1.0.2") 17:46:28 16:17:38 example annoyance: you have a Vector full of MyClass instances. You do vector.elementAt(i).myMethod(), and it barfs all over you for trying to call myMethod on the Object class. Aaaaaargh! 17:47:01 I found out that you can cast it: ((MyClass)vector.elementAt(i)).myMethod() 17:47:35 Fun. 17:48:54 174951Z could anyone using mac OS 9 and OS X tell me what the 17:48:54 sys.platform strings are? 17:49:22 BenSw|school (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 17:49:50 Hello 17:51:00 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 17:51:07 Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints Division Song... 17:51:07 BenSw|school has quit (Remote closed the connection) 17:51:14 Hi Ben 17:51:17 http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A539147 18:00:20 .time 18:00:21 2002/02/05 18:01:59.2241 Universal 18:00:58 hello Ben, even if you quit :-) 18:03:24 I'm off, see y'all 18:03:33 doid has quit ("Bye") 18:59:59 * AaronSw tries to think of websites he's responsible for 19:00:33 AaronSw! 19:00:41 Morbus! 19:00:59 how are you!? 19:01:19 hey, i'm setting up ampheta so you can do crap like this: 19:01:37 perl -MAmphetaDesk::Channels 'export_my_settings' > file.txt 19:01:43 or to other pipes, or what have you. 19:01:56 Nice! 19:02:05 perl -MAmphetaDesk::Channels 'import_from_radio' < mySubscriptions.opml 19:02:06 and so forth ;) 19:05:42 i think on windows, i can do the same thing.' 19:05:51 AmphetaDesk.exe -MAmphetaDesk::Channels and so forth. 19:06:03 the only plce it's broken, is again, OS 9 and below. sigh. 19:08:41 not sure what to do there. 19:08:53 i could have a mini input box in ampheta to type in all that crp. 19:08:57 but that'd be sorta lame. 19:10:43 Hmm. 19:10:49 You could make them download MPW ;) 19:11:08 hehehe. 19:11:19 well, i mean, i'm plannng on adding plugin capabilitoies 19:11:34 so they could technically do it there. 19:11:59 but if someone is using os 9, after os x is out, i'm not sure that audience is even worth this added capabil9ty. 19:12:20 tonight i'll be working on adding a true http daemon, and not the homebrew i did. 19:12:28 Ooh. 19:17:26 much better 19:17:35 http daemon, i'm hoping. 19:17:45 What are you using to make the HTTPd? 19:18:02 i was using straight sockets, that's my homebrew. 19:18:05 Not going with POE? :) 19:18:12 but i'm planning / or hoping to go with http::daemon 19:18:20 i don't think i'm going to, at least, not for aw hile. 19:18:41 That's probably fine for a single user thing for awhile. I started making a news aggregator in perl with POE, but then I decided I wanted to learn python. 19:18:42 after looking into it, the queue based system that it promises me doesnt' seem all too different than the cheapass queue I had done in my own code. 19:20:45 The nice thing about the POE rendition I had going was that everything was packaged up in nice components. I might still play with it some more. 19:22:31 well, i'm doing a bit of the same now - modularzing ampheta, yadda yadda. 19:23:18 That would be a decent first step toward POE or whatever else, etc, you might want to do with it. 19:23:19 how you liking python? 19:23:24 exactly. 19:23:31 the module crap was a long time coming. 19:23:38 i just didn't know much about modules when i first started ampheta. 19:23:47 I likes it. I've been meaning to get back to it for a long time, but my momentum in perl is much :) 19:24:05 heh :) 19:25:16 I've reached the borders of madness with perl though. Must diversify. 19:29:41 If I do anything more with it, I can send you the POE-ified stuff I was playing with. 19:30:26 sure. 19:31:02 I was mostly waiting on a new HTTPd component someone was working on. I have some scheduled RSS grabbing and parsing already going on. 19:31:30 Wasn't parallel-ized or anything though, which was something else I wanted to play with. 19:39:31 jer should go to python10 -- it's reasnoably nearby 19:59:17 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 19:59:35 afternoon, citizens 20:00:41 afternoon 20:22:55 @ http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html 20:23:01 C: Kovar/Hall from rillian 20:23:53 C:|Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Ass 20:23:55 titled item C 20:24:07 C::A truly excellent undergraduate research paper 20:24:09 commented item C 20:24:22 Is there some website where you find all of these? ;-) 20:24:36 with one was word-of-email 20:24:48 did you see the graph? 20:25:16 lol 20:25:52 the fit is priceless 20:26:12 "Banking on my hopes that whoever grades this will just look at the pictures, I drew an exponential through my noise. I believe the apparent legitimacy is enhanced by the fact that I used a complicated computer program to make the fit. I understand this is the same process by which the top quark was discovered." 20:29:25 heh, heh. 20:30:13 man, that's awesome. 20:31:26 "This research has been accepted for publication in the May/June issue of the Annals of Improbable Research." 20:32:16 So what happens to all these chumpster urls? 20:32:22 I assume they get logged somewhere 20:32:30 but I've never seen any of them come back out :) 20:32:35 yeah, to http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/ 20:32:42 and soon to my personal weblog too 20:34:19 There is no Global RDF Conspiracy? 20:34:31 but what about the 20:34:49 * rillian understands now 20:34:56 :-) 20:35:03 AaronSw: that's kind of cool 20:35:17 the cons... i mean weblog? 20:35:38 oh yes, that 20:35:49 thanks 20:35:56 I guess the blog thing is a little like the 'new sites' listing at ncsa 20:36:01 in the early days of the web 20:36:10 indeed 20:36:12 a place where you could actually find interesting new things 20:36:16 * rillian misses that 20:37:54 it does sort of feel as if the web has slowed down a bit... 20:39:58 i used to use nu2.com back in the day. 20:40:05 300 new sites a day, filtered based on my interests. 20:40:08 it was wonderful 20:40:58 Hmm. I hadn't heard of that. 20:41:42 yeah, of course, its dead now. but it used to be the very first of a "sites i visit daily" regime. 20:42:51 why'd it go? 20:42:57 dunno. 20:43:03 AaronSw: how did you do the italic comment at the end of the Mozilla spell-check faq? 20:43:19 you can do *italics* 20:43:33 and [title of a page|http://somelink.org/] 20:43:41 shouldn't that be ~italics~ or /italics/ 20:43:49 or even _italics_ 20:43:52 indeed 20:44:06 you would think so, wouldn't you. 20:44:06 I guess *emphasis* is the most common online 20:44:15 but I always thought of that as bold 20:44:19 Me too. 20:44:24 even though you wouldn't set it that way typographically 20:44:34 *shrug* 20:45:13 Maybe it's different in the UK where the bot was written. ;-) 20:45:23 heh 20:47:13 so [foo|bar] -> foo ? 20:48:12 yeah. 20:48:38 although absolute URIs are probably better 20:48:55 those are variables :) 20:49:00 :-) 20:49:44 so [foo|bar://baz] -> foo ? 20:49:53 yes 20:50:00 actually the // isn't part of the uri definition is it? 20:50:08 just the : ? 20:50:21 yeah, the // is specified by the scheme 20:50:53 like I've seen news:alt.bots.chumster#101033823 20:51:06 like there's no // in tel: or mailto: 20:51:29 .google news uri scheme 20:51:29 news uri scheme: http://www.w3.org/Addressing/schemes 20:54:02 hm: http://web.archive.org/web/19991116003344/www.access.digex.net/~asgilman/uri/news/draft-gilman-news-url-02.txt 20:56:23 so the correct syntax is: news:alt.bots.chumster/101033823 20:56:36 Seems kinda wiki-ish, that log syntax :) 20:56:49 i think that was intentional :) 20:56:56 Gee! 20:58:27 Cool, the author of Plucky wrote back saying he'd already implemented all of my suggestions in the next version he's releasing. 21:01:26 kicikass. 21:01:29 what'd you suggest? 21:01:52 deletion, iTunes style search, and an HTML version 21:02:09 oh, and drag-and-drop 21:04:41 Morbus, did you cover apache proxying? 21:04:49 nope. 21:05:01 he added anhtml version? kickass. 21:05:06 any word on when it'll come out? 21:05:20 "The 1.0 version will hopefully be available by the end of February." 21:06:57 lol! "Banking on my hopes that whoever grades this will just look at the pictures, I drew an exponential through my noise." 21:14:18 wish i had more time to do crap. 21:15:29 why not patent something useful? http://it.mycareer.com.au/news/2001/07/03/FFXQ7G9HJOC.html 21:16:33 I should try Plucky again. I ran it, it showed headlines, and then it didn't do anything else other than sit there and occasionally show a beachball on OS X. 21:17:24 does it show descriptions as well? or just hl's? 21:17:34 Just headlines, thus far. 21:17:34 descriptions will be in 1.0 21:17:48 cool. along with a $15 pricetag ;) 21:18:37 There are some crazy apache modules 21:18:46 heh. 21:18:53 cool: http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/examples.htm 21:18:54 i think i'll be touching on some in part 5. 21:18:55 dunno 21:18:57 part 6, rather. 21:19:10 i use one that hooks into MRTG to create vhost bandwidth measures. works nice 21:20:26 rillian has quit ("linux") 21:22:01 AaronSw, what did you use to add 'filenames' to your RU .opml file? 21:22:15 search-and-replace 21:22:24 k 21:23:58 http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lpb/muddex/vv.html 21:23:59 http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lpb/muddex/vv.html 21:25:04 @ http://www.google.com/programming-contest/ 21:25:08 D: Google Programming Contest from AaronSw 21:27:49 D::$10,000 if you write a program that does something interesting with lots of web pages hey give you. 21:27:50 commented item D 21:35:57 D::What would you run on Google's multi-billion document repository? 21:36:00 commented item D 21:36:48 rm * 21:36:51 just for a laugh 21:37:14 [bang goes any chance of me ever getting a job at Google] 21:38:11 I presume that it would be impossible to erase all of the files through a short shell command 21:38:26 i hope so 21:39:23 Hey, where were you when Dan was making fun of your code, eh? 21:40:28 who? 21:40:42 that was to sbp about Dan Connolly 21:40:49 Hmm... perhaps I'd run something to export all of the links as RDF 21:40:55 DanC was making fun of my code again? 21:41:02 yeah, goynifiad 21:41:04 aw, did I miss it? 21:41:10 heh! great 21:41:12 We were discussing the Plex. 21:41:17 where's that? ooh, where? 21:41:23 in #rdfig 21:42:45 2002-02-05 19:35:18 unfortunately query.py fails its unit tests. (cough! cough! sbp) 21:43:04 cough! cough! 21:43:05 yeah, I noticed that. They fail for me too - it was when I converted all the code over to the 'Plex RDF API 21:43:14 the original ones still work, AFAIK 21:43:43 well it'd work if you didn't reparse the store! 21:46:32 argh. Yeah, that's a problem, isn't it? 21:49:27 Hmm... he didn't really criticize the code itself though, did he? 21:49:50 except for the reparsing bit, which is fair enough 21:50:00 -- 21:50:01 # Now reparse the store 21:50:01 ^??? 21:50:02 re-parse during a query? 21:50:02 -- 21:50:23 the look on his face was priceless 21:50:34 well, in his font rather. 21:50:37 heh! 21:50:57 too bad it doesn't show up in the logs, does it? 21:51:10 of course it does 21:51:14 [off] on #rdfig 21:51:25 heh... it was a horkingly bad hack 21:51:34 on amphetadesk, should i work on an improved webserver (with no forking), or something else? 21:51:46 for the next part of the modulariozation. 21:54:39 from the contest page: "We provide source code in C++. You may alternatively choose to write your code in Java" 21:54:44 ooh, ooh, yes please! 21:55:08 how about _deletion_ ;) 21:55:15 dammit. no. 21:55:19 that won't be much much later. 21:55:20 ;) 21:55:50 that won't be until after the modularization, and after i turn the channel data into DBM stuff. 21:56:36 pfff 21:59:40 * AaronSw gets ready for first Driver's Ed. class 21:59:40 laters 22:07:59 Morbus: I'd say work on putting the data into something search/query/sortable :) 22:08:56 That's part of why I started playing with the python stuff. I saw Peerkat, and saw it used a portable lil pure-python SQL database called Gadfly. Figgered that'd work nicely. 22:09:24 yeah, but i don't wanna get into that stuff until i finish the modulraization. 22:09:37 the modularization is and will be finished first, no quesitons. ;) 22:09:47 Likely the best path :) 22:09:53 because then it'll be easier to get other people to help me without chuckling at my perl4 code 22:10:00 Well, not likely. Definitely. 22:10:47 That, and it'll be easier to swap other parts in and out and wrap things in other things, and you know all the other whatzis modularization get you. 22:10:57 right, exactly. 22:11:08 I just wanted to say thingy and whatzits 22:11:14 like the fucking webserver i have now starts over in one file, which is good, but it needs hooks into the other file to work correctly. 22:11:16 its all messed up. 22:11:27 i jsut barely finsihed a workign settings.pm, which is nice. 22:12:02 Hmm, I'd say yank all that webserver stuff out into one module and make it call other modules as responders... 22:12:19 That's where they all tend to end up anyway. 22:12:35 thats what i'm planning on doing ;) 22:12:47 in the process of doing that, i want to switch to http::Daemon too, which should be interesting. 22:12:53 Then, at some point, it could get shoved behind another httpd 22:13:00 right. 22:13:13 part of going to http::Daemon is because it allows me ot better change the api. 22:13:22 which makes the much requested CGI version a lot easier to do. 22:13:28 Ding ding :) 22:13:30 em@w3c should like that. 22:13:55 I think I have a few webservers laying around here, one of them might even use HTTP::Daemon... hmm 22:14:11 i've seen tons of examples on various sites. 22:14:23 i'm just worried about how it determines mime types and that crap. 22:14:26 i do all that stuff manually now. 22:14:35 plus, i'll be adding the cgi.pm module to handle all the form requests. 22:14:37 They're working on the end-all authoritative Perl Webserver, but it's all POE 22:14:52 i've already figured out how to use cgi.pm to listen to a webserver in its own process ;0 22:15:06 But then end-all-authoratative is probably just encompassing the nuts who visit #perl :) 22:15:11 yeah, there's a dnhttpd over at sf.net, but its all pure sockets, and not very modularized. 22:16:30 Heh... just curious, is anyone else actually using that quick OS X gui I whipped up? 22:16:43 it hasn't been distributed, so no. 22:17:03 but i'm still planning on using it. 22:17:06 Ahh, okie. It's been working fine for me, in so far as all it does is sit there. :) 22:17:12 hehehe 22:17:36 hmm. thats an interesting thought. 22:18:01 i wonder if i could duplicate fork on the mac, by just making physical copies of the program, and then running them as command line thingies. 22:20:42 That sounds Frankensteinian :) 22:21:10 heh. 22:21:13 for os 9, i'm talking. 22:21:20 Yeah, that's what I assumed :) 22:21:40 that would make a bit of sense though. 22:21:59 becuase the new design/structure allows me to have a small wrapper app that just interprets pure perl text files. 22:22:06 so i wouldn't be duplicated the whole app. just the wrapper. 22:24:05 Hmm... must play with MacPerl more 22:30:48 * sbp plays "Martha My Dear" 22:41:45 i am going home soon. yay! 22:42:18 ok. have a question: 22:42:28 should the amphetadesk webserver *by default* be accessibel from the web? 22:42:33 (it can be turned on / off either way). 22:44:32 if it is on, you should make sure that users know about it... 22:45:10 in all versions of ampheta, right now, it son. 22:45:14 its on, rather 22:45:25 so, thats a problem. 22:45:30 so i think i will make it default to off. 22:45:35 or, locahost, only. 22:48:56 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 22:52:16 @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1796000/1796236.stm 22:52:23 E: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1796000/1796236.stm from sbp 22:52:33 E:|Listening to the Web on the Radio 22:52:35 titled item E 22:53:45 E::Well, we have [http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/|IP-by-carrier-pigeon], so why not by letter and radio? 22:53:47 commented item E 22:54:59 E::Seriously though, this is a good scheme to bring selected bits of news from the Web to remote parts of Sri Lanka, where most people have no way of accessing the Internet, and often don't speak English 22:55:01 commented item E 22:59:44 weird: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_513839.html?menu=news.quirkies 22:59:53 "A judge in Maine has ruled that women can jog naked in public." 23:00:11 and the wonderful: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_513827.html?menu=news.quirkies 23:00:22 "A man is celebrating his 100th birthday by carrying the Winter Olympic Games torch in his wheelchair." 23:39:31 * sbp gets the #swhack logs from the Web 23:39:56 someone should cough them at www-archive :-) 23:41:52 Morbus (~Morbus@s88.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 23:55:25 so far, #swhack has only produced 3 days of more thank 100KB 23:55:25 112589 Jan 16 23:58 2002-01-16.txt 23:55:25 109987 Nov 2 23:49 2001-11-02.txt 23:55:26 100035 Dec 20 23:58 2001-12-20.txt 23:55:34 * sbp plays "Honey Pie" 2002-02-06.txt0100644000014300000000000012313207430336616011674 0ustar nobodyroot00:03:45 oh, neat! 00:03:50 .google Homer purple donut 00:03:51 Homer purple donut: http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheSimpsons 00:03:55 I thank you! 00:04:57 and I'm third for "Homer Simpson - The Beer Baron" 00:05:50 .google "Homer J. Simpson" Beer Baron; Banner 00:05:51 "Homer J. Simpson" Beer Baron; Banner: http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheSimpsons 00:06:49 kick-ass: for "The Simpsons, Homer, Mr. X" I'm second only to the official Fox site 00:10:19 WFM! For "Homer Quote" (no quotes), I'm in the top ten. I only link to the site once... what's up with that? [not that I'm complaining] 00:11:51 hooray! 00:11:53 .google Simpsons Beer Baron 00:11:54 Simpsons Beer Baron: http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheSimpsons 00:12:33 wow... if I start linking to it, it'll be the top of every search possible on Google 00:13:38 sbp: 00:13:45 chumpster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:13:45 deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:13:46 the cvs line is $Revision$ right? 00:14:48 blargh to you, sir 00:15:21 $Id$, $Date$, $Revision$ 00:15:50 some people do "$Revision$ of $Date$" 00:16:02 mmhmm. 00:26:30 wow, I just found out some more cool stuff about HTML 00:27:38 All mIRC users should upgrade to mIRC 6.0 at once (apologies to non-mIRC users). This is available from http://www.mirc.co.uk. A serious vulnerability has been discovered in all versions of mIRC up to version 5.91 which could allow malicious users to gain unauthorized access to your system - it is particularly serious for those using IE as their browser. 01:04:42 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 01:05:24 tansaku (~sam@h132-143.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:12:36 heh! 01:12:37 [[[ 01:12:38 01:12:38 Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml 01:12:38 Date: 06 Jun 1992 20:03:27 UT 01:12:38 From: Erik Naggum \ [...] 01:12:39 References: <1992Jun5.205639.21823@news.eng.convex.com> 01:12:41 Subject: Re: using NOTATIONs inline 01:12:43 Dan Connolly \ writes: 01:12:45 | 01:12:47 | The WWW group is attempting to define a multimedia interchange 01:12:49 | format called HTML. . . . 01:12:51 Why not use HyTime? 01:12:53 ]]] 01:13:41 ooh, interesting (and from the same author/message) 01:13:42 [[[ 01:13:43 Blessed and blessed. The SGML declaration is supposed to reflect the 01:13:43 reality of the document, not enforce arbitrary limits on them. So you 01:13:43 write an SGML declaration which fits the document. 01:13:44 ]]] 01:14:18 wonder what he's up to now? 01:14:20 .google "Erik Naggum" 01:14:22 "Erik Naggum": http://www.naggum.no 01:15:34 "dunno" is the answer - and for the record... 01:15:39 .http://www.naggum.no/ 01:15:40 error: [Errno socket error] (111, 'Connection refused') 01:15:44 heh. there are 59 configuration variables in amphetadesk. 01:15:55 63 if you count deprecated. 01:16:01 59?! 01:16:42 heh, heh. 01:16:45 yeah :) 01:17:31 set port... name of creator (Morbus), name of deeley (Amphetadesk)... set port... er... there's the port... 01:17:45 oh, name of the creator (Morbus) 01:17:52 that's in there ;) 01:17:54 er... and the port 01:17:55 app_contact 01:17:59 heh! neat 01:18:08 the port is determined by the webserver, since it tries to pick three of them. 01:18:11 is the new code being actively CVS'd? 01:18:25 nope. your stupid proxy something or other just denied by DCC send. 01:18:36 woo! it sucks 01:18:42 CTCP DCC reply from sbp: REJECT SEND "Settings.pm" (dircproxy: unable to proxy) 01:18:45 Hmm... DCC Send from Morbus rejected (Settings.pm, file type ignored) 01:18:50 huh? 01:18:51 pfff. 01:18:52 hang on a sec 01:20:25 SeanP (sbp@m843-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:20:47 there: try sending it to the other me 01:21:06 SeanP has quit (Client Quit) 01:21:10 lol 01:21:16 SeanP (sbp@m843-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:21:18 i hacked j00 bitch 01:21:21 that's better 01:21:33 Pff 01:21:42 connecting... 01:21:46 argh, it did it again 01:21:47 * Morbus twiddles fingrs. 01:21:49 lemme fix it 01:23:27 try again couldya? 01:24:18 yup 01:24:46 argh, damnit 01:26:11 O.K., I think I've fixed it this time 01:26:27 kralor (devine@212.53.104.248) has joined #swhack 01:26:41 hi 01:26:58 mornign 01:27:16 ever seen the movie "waking ned devine"? 01:27:21 there are naked old men in there. 01:27:45 hooray! 01:27:47 lo 01:27:56 did it finally go? 01:28:02 er... at the file transferring. yes. 01:28:08 not at the naked men... :-) 01:28:12 odd. here, it still says its sending 01:28:16 naked old men, indeed 01:28:28 "Connection failed" 01:28:32 it *was* sending 01:28:56 Morbus, you know you'd get more help if you ported it to Python. ;-) 01:29:03 yeah, shuddup ;) 01:29:03 "Transfer complete" 01:29:40 did you tar it, or something? 01:29:49 no, uh, it should be a regular text file. 01:29:57 goddamit, did this fucking thin... sigh. 01:29:58 hold on. 01:30:00 kralor has left #swhack 01:30:27 stupid snak sends by macbinary by default 01:31:42 yep, that's what the extra bytes must be 01:31:46 anyway... oh wow, you weren't kidding - that's a lot of settings 01:31:51 :) 01:32:08 your comments are quite wonderful too - do you know how much faster your code would be if you got rid of them? :-) 01:32:14 lol. 01:32:17 uh huh. sure ;) 01:32:30 i've been "known" for my comments ;) 01:32:58 indeed 01:33:44 heh: the set_setting version number is... er... interesting 01:33:54 * Morbus whistles nonchalantly 01:34:09 oh hey, its also a syntax error. 01:34:09 thanks! 01:34:10 01:34:32 ooh, you're right. You forgot the " 01:34:36 yup 01:34:45 sbp: debugging code without realising it 01:34:57 did you get the mirc warning, sbp? 01:35:03 I'm using 6.0 01:35:19 [i.e. yep, thanks!] 01:35:26 I found out through BBC news 01:36:10 scary stuff. It almost made me want to change IRC programs - but I'm too used to mIRC's quirks now 01:37:14 whoo hoo! 01:37:16 perl -MAmphetaDesk::Settings -e 'dump_my_settings' 01:37:18 that works now. 01:37:35 such a minor victory that means little. 01:37:37 * Morbus dances! 01:42:14 @ http://www.half-empty.org/ideas/dc/27/f3/f5/da/default_index.html 01:43:32 where'd chumpster go? 01:43:43 he logged out with deltab 01:43:52 deltab came back. poor chumpster didn;t. 01:43:55 * Morbus whistles 01:44:01 so demanding 01:44:10 I want chumpster! 01:44:17 fine, fine... 01:44:26 * AaronSw looks up the magic spell 01:44:36 * AaronSw whistles 01:44:37 come on harry potter! 01:44:39 here boy! 01:44:42 here boy! 01:44:50 potter sucks! 01:44:51 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 01:44:51 down with potter! 01:44:57 uh. potter rules! 01:45:00 that was sbp! 01:46:08 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 01:46:23 hey wmf! 01:46:33 oh. it's wmf. sigh. 01:46:34 01:46:41 hello AaronSw 01:46:46 Morbus: :-P 01:46:52 heh. how are ya? 01:47:06 fine 01:47:16 I've been reading some obfuscated VHDL code 01:48:22 @ http://www.half-empty.org/ideas/dc/27/f3/f5/da/default_index.html 01:48:23 A: http://www.half-empty.org/ideas/dc/27/f3/f5/da/default_index.html from sbp 01:48:34 I don't know what VHDL is, but it sounds like something that's obfuscated by nature. 01:48:45 A:|Why is everyone talking about XML? 01:48:46 titled item A 01:49:20 .acronym vhdl 01:49:21 vhdl: VHSIC Hardware Description Language, Very High-level Design Language 01:49:30 Very Hacky Definition Language 01:49:41 VHDL is used to design chips 01:49:49 SeanP has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:50:40 I figured. 01:51:22 I bet Intel has corporate obfuscated VHDL contests... 01:51:32 "How big and hot can you make a Pentium?" 01:51:37 heh 01:52:07 I don't think this code is deliberately obfuscated, but I think it was generated with some kind of RAD tool 01:53:00 A::This poor fellow... "[XML is] like Java for data, One Common Standard. And 'extras' like XSLT are even cooler, like regexp's taken to the next level." 01:53:02 commented item A 01:53:32 Hmm, perhaps he has some hope. He goes on to say: 01:53:35 "I had a little thought while hacking away on an XSLT template recently, I recalled a book by Vernor Vinge in which all the computer systems of the future have their O/S's layered upon earlier O/S's and they are so complex nobody can acutally understand them. I thought, I wonder if someone left a little XSLT template easter egg somewhere down in the depths, what might it do." 01:53:59 dissembler... 01:54:23 Yeah, yeah -- I'll read it as soon as I can get a copy, OK? 01:54:44 A::vok: "Yeah, I'm pretty sure XML stands for X-treme Markup Language ;) This makes it cool with the kids." What's next? The XML-Games on ESPN3? 01:54:46 commented item A 01:55:59 * AaronSw goes back to studying "The Rules of the Road" 01:56:55 I get my permit Thursday, mwahaha! 01:57:08 watch out world! 02:00:53 the sidewalks will no longer be safe. Walk on the roads, people! 02:03:11 is he getting a Segway? 02:04:12 Heh, heh 02:04:26 Too cold out for that 02:08:36 back up to the 60's here 02:10:16 * Morbus gets frustrated. 02:11:58 "Now once Supernews engineers their servers to allow Harlan to cancel any posting he has a personal problem with, there's no reason why others can't also have this power. Universal Music Group will ask for the same thing, followed by all the RIAA. And so on and so forth." 02:16:56 Heh, this book defines antiques as vehicles > 25 years of age. 02:17:13 * AaronSw wonders how many people here are antiques. 02:17:33 * wmf is not a vehicle 02:17:52 I dunno how they define vehicles. You move rapidly. 02:17:58 That's good enough for me. 02:18:24 Who's Harlan? 02:18:37 a writer 02:18:53 My daughter rides around on my neck and I'm over 25 -> I'm a antique 02:18:58 * AaronSw looks at slashdot... 02:21:41 Man, he sounds angry: "THE IDIOT SLOGAN ³INFORMATION MUST BE FREE.² A WRITER¹S WORK IS NOT INFORMATION: IT IS OUR CREATIVE PROPERTY, OUR LIVELIHOOD AND OUR FAMILIES¹ ANNUITY" 02:24:59 I wonder: if you encrypt someone's work and provide the decryption key, is it still "piracy"? 02:26:14 only pirates use such tricky language... we should lock you up before you cause any real trouble 02:27:02 i second that. 02:27:06 lock him up before he gets his permit. 02:27:12 Hey! Your friend at the EFF was advocating encryption to get around piracy prevention -- but they didn't lock him up. 02:27:30 GabeW, do you know? 02:27:45 the EFF has media connections, can't lock them up 02:27:57 I have EFF connections, can't lock me up 02:32:44 chumpster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:32:44 deltab has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:33:19 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 02:33:19 deltab (deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:34:25 tsk, tsk, DanC is confusing soundness and validity 02:34:53 you'll just have to give him a sound swhack on the head 02:35:07 (or is it a valid swhack on the head...) 02:35:37 i hate modules. 02:35:38 Heh. Last time you linked to my bit about what a swhack his, whump joined the channel, so there was lots of swhacking and whumping going on. 02:35:53 heh 02:36:49 http://www.userland.com/mostReadSitesYesterday 02:37:47 I'm starting to wonder if Joel getting his own server was due to subtle nudges from userLand. 02:37:49 themes is 404 02:38:03 Joel probably wanted to use CityDesk 02:38:13 But he bought a Manila server. 02:38:37 I would too if I was competing with Manila 02:39:06 I wonder what MattyG thinks. 02:41:03 Dave is shuddering to think at the linkrot?! 02:41:25 oh, i take it back discuss.userland.com is back on 02:46:23 i say my name 02:46:41 I wonder: if you encrypt someone's work and provide the decryption key, is it still "piracy"? 02:46:58 you're the nearest lawyer-type 02:47:02 thanks, I guess 02:47:04 ;- 02:47:07 ;-) 02:47:25 techncally,I think encrypting it without permission would infringe a copyright 02:47:43 Hmm, really? 02:47:51 hehe it depends ! 02:48:04 how did you get the material? 02:48:14 i'm missing context 02:48:20 Let's say I bought somebody's audio CD 02:49:19 Are you saying I can't rip it to an encrypted hard disk partition? 02:49:34 well, there is the Audio Home Recording Act 02:49:48 (i forget if thats the exact name) 02:49:53 That sounds right. 02:50:02 it carves out exceptions for this sort of thing "at home" 02:50:13 I imagine(though I don't know) that it would cover such a use.. but maybe not.. 02:50:43 that could be 'using' 'copying' or 'preparing a derivative work' 02:50:56 each of which is a right under copyright which the copyright holder owns 02:51:15 now, keep on going with your scenario 02:51:15 well the home recording act seems to protect copying 02:51:43 Yeah, so I put it onto my encrypted hard disk partition, and then stick the encrypted bits on my website along with the decryption key. 02:51:53 And publicize the address. 02:52:05 your encrypted hard disk partition is publicly available? 02:52:12 oh 02:52:14 sorry 02:52:31 i think the big problem is "sticking the bits on your website" 02:52:35 even if encrypted 02:52:36 its publishing 02:52:42 which is another right 02:53:06 But I'm not publishing his work. I'm publishing this random set of bits! 02:53:08 you'll have to try harder to hack copyright 02:53:15 Hmmph. 02:53:35 the encrypted version is clearly a derivatibe work 02:53:43 What if I can provide two decryption keys -- one creates deadbeefdeadbeef... and one creates the song? 02:54:02 you could restate this as "I published a derivative work which is usable by applying a key to it"... which is no different than saying "I'm pubilshing a book on a cdrom which is readable using the ISO9660 and HTML formats" 02:54:03 then you're having fun 02:54:17 AaronSw: thats not a new idea ;-) 02:54:29 then it becomes an issue of proof - 02:54:33 evidence 02:55:01 the freehaven folks are talking about that 02:55:06 My dad found an awesome copyright loophole, though. States can violate copyright law according to the supreme court. 02:55:27 well, there is a provision somewhere about state copyright infringement 02:55:29 i forget where 02:55:31 So you just put the content on a server at a state university. 02:55:43 oh, but you're still liable 02:55:49 welp, i've accomplish absolutley nothing tonight. 02:55:51 great fun. 02:56:00 [cough] python 02:56:19 AaronSw, i'm starting to think you have a manhood complex. 02:56:22 shut the hell up! 02:56:26 Heh, heh 02:56:43 there was some recent decision about states and copyright involving some state university - but thats all I can recall 02:57:02 and I don't know if this was a copyright decision or something else ... 02:59:52 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 03:01:03 TiVo is spying! http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/tivo020502.htm 03:01:30 old news 03:01:57 sorry - i'm not mr. super-weblog-reader 03:02:42 i'm off to be Family Man 03:02:44 see ya 03:03:02 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:03:10 all the appliance companies have sleazy business models 03:03:33 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:08:11 tav isn't doing so well with his IRC vacation: 03:08:13 "i succumbed and loaded radio." 03:09:17 Heh, it's pretty obvious what Mark Bernstein is referring to: "A Google search led me to the download page for a popular internet utility today, and I was astonished by the quantity of whining, contemptuous, and bitter user comments." 03:10:14 er, I don't get it 03:10:44 It seems like he's talk about Radio. 03:10:52 since he'll be releasing a competitor any day now 03:11:11 .google Mark Bernstein 03:11:11 Mark Bernstein: http://www.markbernstein.org 03:11:17 obvious 03:11:42 Would it be worthwhile for me to write up something on why weblogs and wiki's don't have flamewars? 03:12:09 I think weblogs do have flamewars 03:12:20 well, less severe flamewars 03:12:39 Radio doesn't cost $45 03:12:39 perhaps that's what the public wants 03:12:53 we could set up a great HTP vs. Swhack flamewar 03:12:55 how much does radio cost? $49? 03:13:10 $39 IIRC 03:13:18 C::Wesley Felter is a no good cheating idiot stupidhead! 03:13:46 "Radio UserLand 8.0 is $39.95" - http://radio.userland.com/ 03:13:52 wmf wins 03:14:32 anyway, my theory on flamage is that there's no common space, so it's easy to tune out the flamers 03:14:59 Yeah, pretty much. a) you don't have to go back to their site and b) you tend to write for a more general audience 03:16:12 Apple: "Enter the Apple Design Awards" Ohhhh, I want to. 03:23:25 looks like Jim Roepcke is going back to Canada 03:23:52 025644Z My dad found an awesome copyright loophole, though. States can violate copyright law according to the supreme court. 03:23:58 itym "can't" 03:24:10 .acronym itym 03:24:11 itym: I Think You Mean, I Thought You Meant 03:24:29 Hmm. 03:24:52 I could go either way on that. Maybe ignore would be a better choice of word than 'violate'. 03:24:56 states cannot violate copyright law, because it does not apply to them 03:25:10 or states can violate copyright law and not get busted 03:25:25 right 03:25:45 they wouldn't be violating it, legally 03:25:56 morally, *perhaps* 03:26:06 anyway, we know what he *meant* 03:26:38 wmf has a low tolerance for deltab's detailism 03:26:42 yes, so I said 03:27:55 the VHDL is getting to me 03:29:21 Heh, they named him Xavier after all 03:29:45 deltab has changed the topic to: * 03:29:52 aargh 03:30:13 * deltab hits the /topic command with a stick 03:30:24 my parents weren't sure whether to name me Wesley Michael or Michael Wesley 03:30:46 I dunno, Mike Felter doesn't have the same ring to it. 03:31:00 Mike Felter is my uncle 03:31:25 "Some telemarketer called me today to give me two months of HBO-on-demand for free. I'll let you know how it goes." - sounds like television slamming 03:32:29 yeah, I have to remember to cancel it 03:32:35 * wmf makes a calendar entry 03:34:33 have I mentioned that VOD is a convenient way for the networks to get rid of their PVR problem? 03:35:10 deltab has changed the topic to: Missing: topic. Last seen 03:31Z. Answers to the name chptr->topic. 03:35:11 Eliminate FF or block it during commercials (like those awful fbi warnings on dvds...) 03:35:14 ? 03:35:43 nah, just eliminate the commercials, because people will pay to have VOD 03:36:22 ah. 03:36:40 people buy tivos, but that money doesn't go to the networks 03:37:11 subscription VOD has the advantage that it appears cheaper 03:37:19 cool - mozilla is adding built-in RSS support! 03:38:30 whoa, HBO on demand is patented 03:38:56 how'd you find that out? 03:39:45 interesting compensation model [google has with their programming contest]. "work for free, with the chance to win big!" 03:39:49 given how well the lottery does, this could be the next big thing in payroll strategy 03:42:28 whoa! they set the target milestone for the rss feature to mozilla1.0. so let me get this straight: they don't plan on having spell checking but you can read a slimmed-down version of slashdot? 03:42:43 typical mozilla 03:43:02 they should have frozen it months ago 03:45:06 Heh, i missed deltab's new topic. That's pretty funny. 03:48:20 got a link to the mozilla rss stuff anyway? 03:48:44 yeah, just commenting on the bug now 03:49:08 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66054 03:50:27 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 03:50:54 tansaku tansaku tansaku 03:51:12 tansaku 03:52:06 if he keeps disconencting and reconnecting at this rate i'm gonna have to give him a dircproxy instance too. :) 03:52:33 the perl foundation has an interesting scam going: they give out grants, then start begging for the money to back them 03:53:04 how is this a scam? 03:53:26 the scam part is that they added backdoors in perl to automatically transfer the money to themselves 03:54:00 oh, pfft. they gave money to larry wall. 03:54:03 "The Hack the Planet foundation today announced that it has awarded a $1M grant to AaronSw. Now we just need to raise the money..." 03:54:22 oh, i thought they raised the money before they made the grants. 03:54:33 but still, isn't that the same as asking people to send money to me? 03:54:51 no, my whole point is that they don't have the money that they're claiming to give away 03:55:47 I don't see how that's a problem. The HTP Foundation gets press, AaronSw looks smart, and donors look altruistic 03:55:55 where's the problem? 03:56:09 the foundation looks really stupid if the money doesn't appear 03:56:22 Aha. 03:56:43 A side benefit is that if the money doesn't appear I can pester wes for favors. 03:57:28 "Wes, can I borrow your car?" "No." "But you owe me a million dollars." "Oh fine... no wait -- no." 03:57:38 lol 03:58:24 see, the Hack the Planet Foundation is completely unrelated to the Hack the Planet weblog. I don't even know those guys 03:58:51 Riiight, yet for some unknown reason they send money to the people who read your site. 03:59:23 nah, just world-famous swhaxors 03:59:50 "The Hack The Planet Foundation announced 1 million dollar grants to: Wesley Felter, Robb Beal, Wes Felter, David McCusker, W. Felter, Aaron Swartz, Mr. Felter, Paul Snively, Michael Felter..." 04:00:21 heh, we can call you W. Michael Felter 04:00:34 hmm, looks like $4M for me then 04:03:39 Hmm, Robb hasn't been posting lately. Getting a job at a shareware company must be taxing. 04:04:43 one thing the cable companies need to do is get faster CPUs in these boxes 04:09:03 heh, there's an article debunking the Mystery Spot in the July 2000 issue of "muse". Looks like my hunch was right. 04:09:15 ? 04:09:38 .google santa cruz mystery spot 04:09:39 santa cruz mystery spot: http://www.mystery-spot.com/&e=42 04:10:18 "muse® from the publishers of cricket® and smithsonian magazine" 04:13:48 it's a fun place. people change height, balls roll uphill and strange forces of gravity pull you on an angle. 04:14:39 the photos look like optical illusions 04:16:19 yep 04:18:18 ugh. dave invented a new URI scheme. 04:19:07 yep, so he did 04:20:29 Hmm, he added special syntax to the language to do RPC calls. 04:20:37 yeah 05:13:21 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:13:52 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 05:30:44 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-237-100.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 05:46:03 wmf is now known as hobbes 05:46:15 hobbes is now known as wmf 06:31:24 wmf has quit ("zzz") 06:50:50 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 07:55:38 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:56:37 tansaku2 (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 08:17:21 tansaku2 is now known as tansaku 11:33:32 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:51:11 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 14:38:42 tansaku (~sam@n144-001.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 14:54:34 -- 14:54:35 Simon St.Laurent 14:54:35 Ring around the content, a pocket full of brackets 14:54:35 Errors, errors, all fall down! 14:54:36 -- 16:07:53 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:41:27 * sbp waves 16:45:28 heh! 16:45:29 [[[ 16:45:29 > - sighting of a triple 16:45:30 I love this one. Like bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster... 16:45:31 Unofficial sources report a sighting of the 16:45:31 triple on a web server in downtown Buenos Aires... 16:45:44 ]]] - mid:B886B15D.D560%patrick.stickler@nokia.com 16:52:37 ooh, good bit from Larry:- 16:52:37 [[[ 16:52:38 Just as with natural languages, there are strings of 16:52:38 characters that have different meanings depending on 16:52:38 the conext of use. "xmlns=" and "href=" are very 16:52:38 different contexts; it would help to be clearer about 16:52:39 that. 16:52:53 ]]] - mid:000001c1af2c$501c5360$0b78bfd1@larrypad 18:29:28 Hmm... for SHA160, there's a 50% chance of a hash collision if you have a billion billion files 18:29:28 correction: a million billion billion 18:32:21 besides MD5, are there any other "normal" common ways of creating a unique hash? 18:32:33 """It is widely believed in the cryptographic community that SHA-1 is a collision-resistant, one-way function. Indeed, no cryptanalyst has yet announced the discovery of a collision in SHA-1.""" - http://www.certicom.com/resources/news/news_101200.html 18:32:36 yeah: SHA-1 18:32:42 i need to uniquely identify feed items in rSS, and was gonna do title+description+link and then md5 it. 18:33:12 you may as well MD5 it, if you're not looking for massive amounts of security. MD5 is pretty unbreakable on a small scale 18:33:16 SHA-1 for medium scale 18:33:24 nah, no security at all. 18:33:25 and of course, the Plex uses a slightly larger hash... 18:33:52 they're gonna be md5'd into different DBs. 18:33:58 and its public info anyways. 18:35:31 heh, the Plex uses hashes that the equivalent of a 15360 bit long RSA key 18:36:02 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 18:38:53 heh! http://www.secure-hash-algorithm-md5-sha-1.co.uk/calc.htm 18:39:08 Why pay $89 when I can do it for free using Python? 18:40:27 pfff. 18:40:41 thats funny shit. 18:44:11 even funnier: http://www.cyphercalc.com/sha1tool.htm 18:44:37 it's $349 AFAICT. That's bizzare. It'd take me about a day to create a similar GUI in Python - if that 18:46:24 CygBot (~sbp@m956-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:46:35 Cygbot! 18:46:49 .sha1 i love cygbot! 18:46:53 $ python -c "import sha; print sha.new('blargh').hexdigest()" 18:46:59 > d1e670385f40ee942a059f949c761214872ac35f 18:46:59 > [end] 18:47:03 yay for sigbot 18:47:08 $ python -c "import sha; print sha.new('i love cygbot!').hexdigest()" 18:47:09 Heh, heh. 18:47:11 > 6db5430210ffd0a22cd9be56a0703f6505e2bb7d 18:47:11 > [end] 18:47:21 heh, sigbot... 18:47:46 keep him on a sec -- i want to try something... 18:47:50 O.K. 18:47:58 although it might be a her 18:48:06 hmm, good point 18:48:09 $ python -c "print 'i love python'" 18:48:14 > i love python 18:48:15 > [end] 18:48:17 yay! 18:48:20 i know python! 18:48:21 18:48:24 :-) 18:48:31 $ ls | mail me@aaronsw.com 18:48:38 Command "ls | mail me@aaronsw.com" has been disabled 18:48:40 lol 18:48:42 pff 18:48:45 sbp has quit ("Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.2") 18:48:48 AaronSw is now known as sbp 18:48:53 $ ls | mail me@aaronsw.com 18:49:01 $ ls 18:49:09 urgh 18:49:16 SeanP (~sean@m956-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:49:22 WTF happened there? 18:49:22 $ ls 18:49:26 sbp is now known as AaronSw 18:49:28 heh, heh. 18:49:29 ooh, you little git 18:49:32 Command "ls | mail me@aaronsw.com" has been disabled 18:49:33 Command "ls" has been disabled 18:49:33 Command "ls" has been disabled 18:49:43 $ pwd 18:49:50 > /home 18:49:51 > [end] 18:49:56 Gotta run 18:50:04 * AaronSw gets dirc running again... 18:50:07 $ pwd locate CygBot 18:50:10 $ locate CygBot 18:50:32 $ locate etc 18:51:13 ok, just had to do some rearranging of dirc there... 18:52:10 sbp (sbp@m76-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:52:15 ok, now it's back up, sbp 18:52:21 thanks 18:52:33 I moved it into daemontools for you so that it will restart if it crashes. 18:52:37 $ locate etc 18:52:48 CygBot....! 18:52:49 CygBot isn't on 18:52:51 * Morbus grumbles 18:53:02 it's just the GHOST - I had to go offline to order a pizza 18:53:11 jeez. 18:53:19 CygBot has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!sbp@m76-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 18:53:23 you know, maybe you should disconnect first, instead of wasting all the bandwidth from pinging. 18:53:30 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: sbp!sbp@m76-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 18:53:36 sbp (~sean@63.149.73.20) has joined #swhack 18:53:36 you are a waste of resources, you know. 18:53:41 Maybe you should stop ordering pizzas. 18:53:43 ;-) 18:53:52 heh, chubby boy! 18:53:59 * Morbus pokes sbp's tummy. 18:54:14 stop ordering pizzas? Pff 18:54:14 * Morbus dreams of sbp going 'tee hee' like the Dough Boy 18:54:16 heh, heh 18:54:31 Poppin Fresh! 18:54:38 CygBot (~sbp@m76-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 18:54:57 $ locate etc 18:55:01 > locate: /usr/var/locatedb: No such file or directory 18:55:02 > [end] 18:55:20 $ updatedb 18:55:24 heh, heh. 18:55:28 Command "updatedb" has been disabled 18:55:34 awww. 18:55:35 Hmmph. 18:55:43 * sbp thinks about automatically disabling commands from AaronSw :-) 18:55:49 $ grep -wn "a" * 18:55:51 what's wrong with that? 18:56:03 Command "grep -wn "a" *" has been disabled 18:56:38 $ alias morbohacko='ls -al'; 18:56:43 $ morbohacko 18:56:54 Heh, heh 18:56:58 :) 18:59:26 $ python -c "input('freeze me!')" 19:00:01 $ pwd 19:00:05 it's raw_input, i think 19:00:17 oh, both will work i guess 19:00:56 $ pwd 19:02:35 $ 19:02:35 $ \n 19:02:42 $ ^Z 19:02:48 $ EOF 19:02:55 $ pwd 19:03:12 um. 19:03:18 This is sort of an odd claim: "RTF does not contain a method of writing data to a users filesystem, thus it is a safe method of transmitting files." 19:03:48 RTF? rich text file? 19:03:49 ;) 19:04:06 yeah 19:04:13 really? 19:04:18 uh. ok, that is strange. 19:04:35 i thought it was a piece of softaware. 19:08:49 SeanP has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:09:45 I guess that claim is WRT Microsoft file formats which contain scripting? 19:10:30 Since everyone knows "files" are Word docs. 19:15:57 CygBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:28:24 heh! http://www.startribune.com/stories/804/1402822.html 19:39:28 Hmm, Microsoft is asking some odd questions. I wonder if you can describe this with P3P: http://DailyBlah.com/2001_12_01_archive.html#7934129 19:49:12 Hmm, that link 404s... 19:49:29 Here's the text: 19:49:29 -- 19:49:31 Today's hot news from the UK. Note that Newcastle is about ten miles from my hometown. And that I have never taken a taxi in Newcastle, nor am I sure I want to now. 19:49:34 LONDON, Dec 14 (Reuters) - One in four Britons has had 19:49:34 sex in the car park after the office Christmas party, 19:49:34 according to a survey released on Friday, which said 19:49:34 more than 80 percent of British people admitted to 19:49:35 enjoying saucy in-car activity. 19:49:37 Women in Cheshire, northwest England, have sex in cars 19:49:39 most often, with 20 percent saying they do it once a 19:49:41 month or as often as possible, said the survey by MSN 19:49:43 Carview, the international network of automotive 19:49:45 websites on Microsoft¹s MSN portal. 19:49:47 Meanwhile, 22 percent of women in Newcastle upon Tyne, 19:49:49 northeast England, said they had had sex in the back 19:49:51 of a taxi, MSN Carview said in a statement. 19:49:53 posted by Chris Taylor 1:07 PM 19:49:55 -- 20:17:44 rillian has quit ("laundry") 20:49:22 * sbp waves 20:49:38 wb 20:54:03 Hmm, this seems like a no-brainer: I want RSS feeds of my mailing list digests. 20:54:24 Yahoo Groups has that. 20:54:24 yahoo does it. 20:55:12 Hmm. Must get all my mailing lists to switch to Yahoo :) 20:55:32 there are also several ways to do it with pipermail/mailman 20:56:08 Just realizing I'm subbed to many interesting lists that are filtered into folders I rarely read anymore, yet some how I manage to read metric tons of news in my aggregator. 20:56:31 Heh, I was noticing that today too. 20:57:02 I suppose I could hack something with my mail filtering to produce personal mail RSS feeds. 20:57:52 Seems doing it there would be easier than getting all my list owners to give it to me :) 20:58:57 * deus_x ponders IMAP -> RSS 21:02:49 heh, heh: "GEE I am real slooowwwwww this morning." - some Eric person on www-html 21:07:22 deus_x: what mail program you use? 21:08:31 jeremiah (~jeremiah@ip68-10-5-132.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #swhack 21:08:39 hello everyone 21:08:41 hey j 21:08:45 J! 21:08:48 always a pleasure when your firewall gets cracked 21:09:01 especially when it was on november 19th 21:09:08 and you find out about it... two days ago 21:09:09 ooo. 21:09:19 to be honest: I knew that machine was asking for it 21:09:28 and I had plans to do an overhaul for a long long time 21:09:34 and they didn't get any further into the network 21:09:38 so I am not too worried 21:10:14 Morbus: RIght now, I'm using Mail.app in OS X. Sometimes I use Outlook Express, and sometimes Mozilla mail 21:10:28 Depends on what computer I'm sitting at. 21:11:34 odd how long dns lookups are... I'm so used to having my caching server (whenever I go to a new site it has to do the preliminary lookup now) 21:19:25 LOL! 21:19:27 @ http://advogato.org/article/430.html 21:19:38 B: http://advogato.org/article/430.html from AaronSw 21:19:47 B:|The Hacks of our Lives 21:19:50 titled item B 21:19:51 http://www.wnew.com/opack/Contests/2002/Nightie/Contestants/index_agreed.html 21:19:59 B::The Gnome/Mono Soap Opera 21:20:00 commented item B 21:26:22 stevej: "I don't like the New New Economy. I've dubbed it 'Dude, Where's My Job?'." 21:27:58 heh, heh 21:36:18 BenSw|school (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 21:37:22 hi 21:37:31 hi ben 21:37:32 Hi there Ben 21:38:10 whats up? 21:38:26 rowr! 21:38:28 * Morbus winks. 21:41:01 movie88 seems a little low 21:42:24 Bensw|atschool (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 21:42:37 two of you? 21:42:38 BenSw|school has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:42:39 well it made me crash :~) 21:43:08 no cgi irc is a little slow of getting rid of people so i need to make a new name 21:43:29 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 21:47:22 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 21:47:43 wb 21:55:19 am i still connected? 21:55:29 yep 21:55:29 Bensw|atschool has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:55:30 yup 21:55:39 nope :) 21:56:02 ugh, why are apache vhost's so confusing? 21:56:03 Bensw|atschool (nobody@un.impressive.net) has joined #swhack 21:56:08 AaronSw: what's up? 21:56:10 hi 21:56:32 Heh, heh, heh that was sorta weird.. 21:56:39 i just want it to server /www/ on one domain name and /www/foo/ on another. 21:56:51 right. so just change the DocumentRoot. 21:56:57 two vhost's, two diff DR's 21:57:11 right, but how do i specify the vhost? 21:57:15 testing scretn capture, 21:57:18 ignore this. 21:57:39 * deus_x ignores that. 22:05:04 hmm, i take that back -- it wasn't so bad. 22:08:42 You could have the sort of fun we're having, with this crazy proxy/rewrite/auto-vhost setup we have now. 22:08:42 Bensw|atschool has quit (Remote closed the connection) 22:10:40 well, i've got proxies, rewriting and vhosts, so i'm having fun. 22:10:42 .dns aaronsw.com 22:10:43 aaronsw.com - 63.149.73.20 22:10:49 Wow, DNS is moving fast! 22:12:29 Wheee! 22:20:45 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 22:21:05 @ http://www.aaronsw.com/ 22:21:07 C: http://www.aaronsw.com/ from AaronSw 22:21:15 C:|Aaron Swartz: The Redesigned Website 22:21:16 titled item C 22:21:36 C::All new, updated and enhanced! [May not be available in all areas due to DNS delays.] 22:21:38 commented item C 22:21:58 C::Also includes my shiny new weblog! 22:21:59 commented item C 22:23:00 Hmm, looks like the MT colors :) 22:23:23 Heh. [cough] 22:23:33 I need to open up color picker sometime and fix things up a bit. 22:24:08 I need to actually get my website act together 22:24:46 Morbus needs to get his ampheta act together -- i only got six days... 22:24:58 Six days for...? 22:25:04 Until RU expires ;) 22:25:13 Oh! heh, heh 22:25:44 I was *almost* contemplating buying it, but I've got Ampheta and the things I'm toying with in Python. 22:26:29 At some point I have to decide whether the DIY factor wins over the Just-Buy-It factor :) 22:27:51 * deus_x oggles at PalmWiki and the successor MegaWiki 4.0 22:29:44 gotta run: driver's ed 22:31:03 Morbus (~morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 22:31:27 Morbus has quit (Remote closed the connection) 23:00:02 Oh yeah, that's right. Radio doesn't do RSS 1.0, that's one of the reasons feels itchy 23:00:15 heh: "Uh huh. What have you done?" 23:00:53 o/` My God, what have I done? o/` 23:10:39 Morbus (~Morbus@s89.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 23:11:21 hey AaronSw. hear you like MT. cool. 23:28:34 CygBot (~sbp@m584-mp1-cvx5a.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:28:40 CygBot! 23:28:48 $ python -c "print 'hello, morbus!'" 23:28:54 > hello, morbus! 23:28:54 > [end] 23:28:57 CygBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:29:07 sorry... wrong channel 23:29:10 tansaku (~sam@h132-137.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 23:34:38 AaronSw: they're running beta tests of MT 2.0. i signed up but haven't gotten the code yet. 2002-02-07.txt0100644000014300000000000021753607430605467011714 0ustar nobodyroot00:41:13 pff. my finder just crashed.\ 00:48:43 tansaku has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:49:57 anyone around? 00:52:38 I am 01:21:03 morb, cool 01:21:17 hey AaronSw. hear you like MT. cool. 01:21:18 Where'd you hear that? 01:21:41 uh, your blog. 01:22:14 oh. i should tell it to keep quiet. 01:22:36 uh huh. 01:22:41 people will think you like perl. 01:22:48 yeah... ick 01:22:54 ick indeed. 01:23:24 heh, heh 01:34:29 * Morbus drafts long email to Derrick 01:35:03 How Debian developers can make Debian better: 01:35:03 'Run "apt-get remove mutt" (or the equivalent), and 01:35:04 spend a few hours actually trying to understand some of the bugs that 01:35:04 are in the RC bug list, and *FIX* them. Don't downgrade them. Don't whine 01:35:04 about them. Don't propose dropping the architecture they apply to. Don't 01:35:04 wonder if that sort of behaviour should even be supported. Don't complain 01:35:06 about how they obviously require someone smarter. Don't worry about how 01:35:08 this might, hypothetically, not be possible for some things, or harder 01:35:10 than it might need to be. Don't mutter about how you don't care about 01:35:12 such-n-such a package. JUST *FIX* THEM.' 01:35:20 heh 01:41:39 * jeremiah should remove irc, web browsers and aim 01:41:43 and email 01:41:48 then my productivity will shoot through the roof 01:41:49 Indeed. 01:41:59 That seems to be what tav has done, for the most part 01:42:20 I was reading that google competition 01:42:26 thinking how cool it would be to use plex for it 01:42:38 not sure how, just that it'd be cool 01:42:52 was also thinking of writing an english webpage->triples converter 01:43:15 Hmm, interesting! 01:43:52 how would that work? 01:44:05 * AaronSw just noticed you can do http://packages.debian.org/packagename - heh. 01:44:18 presumably similarly to how google does it's pagerank stuff 01:44:20 I mean, you're not going to be doing NLP, surely... 01:44:30 Neuro-Linguistic Programming? 01:44:33 I mean, RDF is based on language 01:44:33 ;-) 01:45:12 RDF is based on binary relations 01:45:27 language is not based on binary relations 01:45:28 well, triples 01:45:36 subject predicate object 01:45:41 those are all language things 01:45:42 I don't follow your logic. triples are 2-ary relationships! 01:45:49 no, I don't think so 01:46:07 ok, let's take a sentence, lemme pluck one off some random website... 01:46:35 of course we need a sentence with links in it... (working working) 01:46:40 sbp, they can be represented as either. just as they can be represented as graphs 01:46:41 it is possible to parse English sentences into RDF, I do not doubt that. I doubt that you can do it automatically without quite a bit of NLP experience 01:47:02 seth claimed to be able to do it, but his stuff was junk 01:47:06 sbp: do you mean neuro linguistic programming when you say nlp? 01:47:17 i think he means Natural Language Processing 01:47:21 ok 01:47:34 well in that case, yes, it probably would require nlp 01:47:41 but I think it would be simpler than we think 01:47:58 I think you should try it, and find out just how laughably difficult it is 01:48:07 Heh... yeah 01:48:20 I realize it's difficult 01:48:22 Eric got something like that working tho. 01:48:30 He drew out keywords from mail. 01:48:34 but I also realize google has something very similar to it already working 01:48:35 the alternative is to just convert words per sentence into an index 01:48:45 google just follows links -- that's easy and mechanical 01:48:48 yeah, I presume that's more of a screen scraping trick 01:49:39 first separate the key sentences (probably the ones with links) into nouns adjectives and verbs 01:50:00 how do you know whether a word is being used as a noun adjective or verb? 01:50:14 most words don't fit into both categories 01:50:24 e.g. while 01:50:30 yes, and 'fuck' 01:50:38 indeed 01:50:52 verb and noun? 01:51:04 and adverb 01:51:07 "it was fucking hillarious" 01:51:10 err, wait 01:51:19 it's used as an adverb somewhere 01:51:27 * jeremiah reminds himself to brush up on english before attempting any nlp 01:51:29 that's verb and adverb 01:51:35 words like that are used for everything 01:51:54 hmm 01:52:11 well does anyone else have good ideas for what to do with all this google stuff? 01:52:32 search for palindromes 01:52:49 hmm 01:52:59 neat but I don't know how useful 01:53:11 of course :-) 01:53:22 unless you're in a palindrome competition 01:53:27 I mean, I could see what I want (the triples thing) as something google would actually offer, but when I try to think of other services they might want I draw a blank 01:53:28 heh 01:53:32 A useful google feature would be to sort by last-modified headers, but they don't include those in the data. 01:53:57 or a plagorism searcher 01:54:07 piracy! 01:54:09 I don't know how far off that would be from what they already have 01:54:11 * sbp ducks 01:54:27 AaronSw: they're in the stored data, just not displayed 01:54:45 Hm? They weren't in the files I downloaded. 01:55:17 * sbp was going to download the tar.gz, noticed the size, and went to do something els 01:55:24 haha 01:55:46 so do I unbzip those files in the "data" dir 01:55:48 hmm, not too long ago a query I did went wrong and one result started X-Google-Date or something like that 01:55:51 or does the code they gave me handle all of that 01:56:18 oh wait, I haven't even downloaded the 640M data files... 01:56:31 .google X-Google-Date 01:56:32 no results found. 01:56:33 all 5 of them 01:56:34 jesus 01:56:38 wha? "#113718: freenet; newer versions available" that's a release critical bug? 01:56:50 it is if you use freenet... 01:56:56 * jeremiah ducks 01:57:08 AaronSw: what branch of debian is that from? 01:57:43 i dunno, i can't find it on these BTS pages 01:57:57 * jeremiah downloads a 640meg datafile at 300K :) 01:58:05 cox is gonna hate me 01:58:23 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 01:58:30 hello wesley 01:58:35 somebody put them on a disc and FedEx them to me would... oh 01:58:35 hi 01:58:39 wesley, good day 01:58:51 sbp: ya realize theo ffer that, right? 01:59:13 jeremiah, appears to be testing 01:59:14 yeah 01:59:21 AaronSw: ok 01:59:41 I should write a porn-finder 01:59:44 that'd be so funny 01:59:46 porn-get 01:59:49 it's been written 01:59:51 no, but with a google backend 01:59:55 ah, it was X-Google-Crawl-Date 02:00:12 jeremiah, images.google.com - it's been written. ;-) 02:00:28 yeah, yeah 02:00:33 ah, thanks deltab 02:00:50 i guess that's what they're showing now with the dates 02:00:56 .porn-get 02:01:15 hmm, tav hasn't hooked that up to xena yet 02:01:25 heh 02:01:28 plexporn 02:01:34 google-plex :) 02:03:17 well there's still a while until the contest ends, a long while 02:03:22 so I suppose I'll brainstorm for a few days 02:04:49 hmm, hook it up to the API (if there is one) for viavoice or that oss speach recognizer, and have it sift through mp3s and recordings of streams, then you can search the streams with text 02:04:53 Heh, search engine tips: "Make your site P3P compatible for a link from a site with a Google Page Rank of 9 at: http://www.w3.org/P3P/compliant_sites" 02:05:23 where is that from? 02:05:23 how do you find out your pagerank? 02:05:30 - http://www.searchengineworld.com/newsletter/2001/blurbs.htm 02:05:39 (for wmf) 02:05:40 jeremiah, usually the Google Toolbar 02:05:51 in windows? 02:05:57 yeah 02:05:58 hmm, I wonder what mine is 02:07:09 i like the part about the target machiens having "2-4gb of ram" 02:07:38 RAM is cheap 02:07:47 yeah they interviewd the ceo 02:07:54 he said they use ram instead of harddrives now 02:07:59 AaronSw: they used to show dates for all results 02:08:15 but i believe those are last-crawled dates, not last-modified 02:08:21 yes 02:08:35 wmf, your pagerank looks like 8 02:08:44 camworld and joel are also 8 02:08:50 slashdot and scripting news are 9 02:08:52 what's mine? 02:09:15 and I remember when they displayed the pagerank of each result 02:09:21 yeah, me too 02:09:22 and mine? 02:09:34 i dunno, since you guys aren't in dmoz 02:09:38 oh 02:09:46 but my page is linked from the P3P site! :-) 02:09:51 really? 02:09:56 yeah: right next to IBM, which is quite fun 02:14:14 ooh! torvalds is using bittkeeper 02:14:22 yep 02:14:44 .google bittkeeper 02:14:45 no results found. 02:14:51 .google bitkeeper 02:14:52 bitkeeper: http://www.bitkeeper.com 02:15:04 .google linus bitkeeper 02:15:04 [via wmf] 02:15:05 linus bitkeeper: http://lwn.net/1999/features/BitKeeper.php3 02:15:18 .news hack the planet 1 02:15:19 Linus Torvalds trying out BitKeeper - I'm glad to seeLinus Torvalds trying out BitKeeper. - http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0202.0/0989.html 02:16:25 ok so what if we programmed a neural net ish thing to look at images from amihotornot.com and compare them to their rankings 02:16:41 and maybe it'd eventually learn to tell if people are attractive or not... 02:16:56 jeremiah needs an AI smacking 02:17:26 * sbp throws a robotic dog at J 02:17:49 .ishehot spb.jpg 02:17:53 no! 02:18:06 heh: "THIS WEBLOG HAS MOVED" 02:18:23 * sbp wonders who this spb guy is that everyone is talking about 02:18:28 .google spb 02:18:29 spb: http://www.spb.ca.gov 02:19:17 Ooh, they gave linunx their own website: http://linux.bkbits.net/ 02:20:01 I think bkbits is moving to be a sort of sourceforge clone 02:20:37 since sourceforge.net refuses to enable bitkeeper support 02:20:48 Interesting. 02:20:57 And what of subversion? 02:21:06 not finished 02:21:56 google has some killer bandwith 02:22:06 I wonder how many people are pulling this file off their servers right now 02:22:46 you gotta have good bandwidth if you're going to crawl the whole web monthly and still server zillions of users. 02:22:52 yeah 02:23:38 Hmm, this metapad would fit in my pocket... 02:23:59 course i'd need several other pockets for the batteries. 02:24:06 what makes it different from a grossly overpowered pda? 02:24:16 it doesn't have a screen 02:24:19 oh 02:24:46 and it runs a real os 02:24:51 I'm not really sure of the point of the metapad 02:25:04 well an ipaq with a 1gig harddrive would run a real os too 02:25:10 one of the microdrives 02:25:14 10gb hard drive 02:25:18 in the metapad 02:25:23 hmmm 02:25:52 I just wan ta nice tablet pc 02:25:58 wmf, I think the point is so that you can carry your computing environment around with you. 02:26:10 in your pocket? 02:26:23 yeah 02:26:34 blanu was going to put it on cd-rom, others say store it on the "cloud". this is an interesting alternative 02:26:36 I think there are more sensbile solutions 02:26:55 feh, i just want a wearable computer. 02:27:03 well all you really need is the data anyway 02:27:03 get a watch 02:27:11 no need for the ram and processor to be portable 02:27:15 unless you want to use it as wearable 02:28:59 Morbus! 02:29:03 wes! 02:31:02 anyone here taken sat II math? 02:31:17 i'm horrific at math 02:31:30 I registered for both of the math SAT II's and the US History one today 02:31:32 I probably took it back in the day 02:31:34 along with an SAT 02:32:14 58% done with my 640mb download from google 02:32:16 at 200K/sec 02:32:30 been over an hour now I think 02:33:02 if google wasn't so damn useful as it is... I might be able to think of more ways to improve it 02:33:40 I wonder what Linus writes his scripts in. 02:33:55 Linus is a god, he scripts in assembler 02:33:56 sh? 02:34:04 COBOL, probably 02:35:05 I wonder if I will win any anti-bloggies 02:36:51 what are we nominating you for, wmf? 02:37:00 I don't know, anything would do 02:37:12 worst Gay Lasbian and Bisexual Weblog of 2002 02:37:24 s/as/es/ 02:37:35 and add serial commas too 02:37:36 HTP is a terrible glbt blog 02:37:45 exactly 02:37:50 do you think a fundamentalist group could get worst gay & lesbian blog? 02:38:32 it would be funnier if I got best glbt blog... 02:38:38 The only category you might fit in is most obsessed with radiohead and dumbest title, wmf. 02:39:04 * jeremiah likes radiohead 02:39:18 did you get "hack the planet" from "hackers"? 02:39:28 * wmf sighs 02:39:35 you see the first time I visited your site 02:39:35 jeremiah: no 02:39:47 Creep was quite inspirational to some musicians when it came out, as I recall 02:39:48 I think hackers got it from him. 02:39:49 I was turned away by that title 02:39:58 they probably googled for "hack" and found wes' site 02:39:59 I am hardly the *most* obsessed with Radiohead 02:40:07 how long has we's site been up 02:40:10 wes' 02:40:15 and they were like "oh, this must be the super hacker catch phrase! google says so" 02:40:20 there are many who are very obsessed with radiohead 02:40:24 google wasn't around back then 02:40:52 they used yahoo! 02:41:05 Ugh, wes only goes back to Aug. 1998, it seems 02:41:11 newbie! 02:41:46 name 10 older weblogs :-) 02:42:15 http://www.disobey.com/dnn/1998/9809.shtml 02:42:17 :) 02:42:46 impressive 02:43:12 I think I've been "journaling" since at least aug of 98 02:43:24 but I deleted a lot of that stuff 02:43:40 "What's New", robot wisdom, scripting news, infosift, camworld, morb, jeremiah 02:44:16 netscape what's new, tomalak 02:44:27 http://nilknarf.net/j.shtml 02:44:31 that guy goes back to 96 02:44:32 ok - that's 10 02:44:33 I used to know him 02:44:35 flutterby? 02:44:48 wrong, tomalak started Nov 98 02:46:15 flutterby started in 02-1998 02:46:19 err 1998-02 02:46:30 AaronSw: I confirmed with jim that zooko is having net connection problems. 02:46:33 oops 02:46:34 http://flutterby.com/archives/viewentry.cgi?id=1 02:46:52 He's done a good job of keeping the database stable. 02:47:28 Pff: HaX0R teh #swhack archives! 02:48:43 .google marijuanna posters 02:48:44 marijuanna posters: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001189/2001/12/17.html 02:48:57 I shit you not: I misspelled the word, and somehow I get the #1 spot on google 02:49:36 \topic Exclusive! The members of Swhack have not been shitted by Jeremiah 02:49:45 heheh 02:50:53 i'm heading out. gotta get some play done or else i'm gonna be cranky tomorrow. 02:50:56 er, more cranky than usual. 02:51:04 see ya in 12 hours. 02:51:09 Hmm, did diveintomark switch to MT or something? 02:51:46 oh, greymatter 02:51:57 well he really did a poor job of notifying the readers of his rss feed. 02:56:15 wmf has quit ("BitchX-75p3 -- just do it.") 02:56:44 wmf (wesf@cs242733-11.austin.rr.com) has joined #swhack 03:00:28 @ http://slashdot.org/~lm/ 03:00:38 A: http://slashdot.org/~lm/ from wmf 03:02:26 google is looking for someone to finish off the esperanto translation 03:02:49 Hmm, French too. 03:03:25 Whoa, there's a language called Hacker? 03:04:03 "TestFirstProgramming. In order to submit a change, you must provide a test which passes with the change, and fails to pass without the change. Furthermore, your change must not break any of the old tests." 03:04:05 interesting 03:04:18 Hm, that is interesting. 03:04:47 lol!: http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/ 03:04:52 @ http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/ 03:04:54 B: Google from AaronSw 03:04:58 B:|Google H4x0r 03:04:59 titled item B 03:05:19 B::Featuring "EyE Am ph33|1n6 |u(ky" 03:05:20 commented item B 03:09:42 Also, they need someone to finish up italian and klingon 03:10:38 and spanish 03:12:37 have I mentioned lately that the Open Source Definition is hurting open source? 03:13:07 no, how so? 03:13:22 people use it as a substitute for thinking 03:13:46 people do that with a lot of things... slashdot, rms, esr... 03:13:57 they see that BK doesn't meet the OSD, so they abandon it 03:14:12 Ah. 03:15:49 I thought lm said it met the OSD... 03:16:01 no 03:17:12 what section does it violate? 03:17:30 you're not allowed to make arbitrary modifications 03:18:27 really? that sounds pretty bad 03:18:58 you're not allowed to turn off logging 03:19:07 oh. 03:19:41 it has zero effect on open source developers, but they bitch about it anyway 03:38:22 I don't understand why people sign up for HTP with bogus email addresses and then don't post 03:42:10 Hmm. What other benefits are there to signing up? 03:42:16 none 03:42:23 but maybe that's not clear enough 03:42:25 Getting email notifications, but that doesn't make sense with a bogus address 03:42:48 Considering the pain it takes to sign up, i doubt there are people who do it with no incentive, but maybe... 03:42:57 "pain", bah 03:43:03 and your sign in button is very small 03:43:56 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 04:04:56 rillian (~giles@mist.thaumas.net) has joined #swhack 04:06:23 whois' lm 04:06:41 he's the bitkeeper guy 04:06:46 aha 04:06:50 A:|Larry McVoy 04:06:56 titled item A 04:07:02 A::"The Bitkeeper Guy" 04:07:03 commented item A 04:09:44 A: 04:09:47 A:: 04:09:47 http://slashdot.org/~lm/ 04:09:48 Larry McVoy 04:09:49 (AaronSw) "The Bitkeeper Guy" 04:13:13 @ http://advogato.net/article/430.html 04:13:16 C: http://advogato.net/article/430.html from rillian 04:13:25 C:|The Hacks of our Lives 04:13:26 titled item C 04:13:34 C::it gets better near the end 04:13:36 commented item C 04:13:49 Heh, I chumped that yesterday, I think. 04:13:54 It was pretty funny. 04:14:00 oop, sorry 04:14:11 no worries 04:14:13 maybe the weblog should be a little longer 04:14:21 or chumpster should do a redundancy search 04:14:51 Both of those should be done, but I don't know who will do them. 04:15:25 "Walks out into super-hacker room. All computers have 10 screens flying around the chairs and high speed as that makes all hackers much more effective." 04:15:45 Hmm, I didn't see that. 04:16:11 Where's that from? 04:16:42 the same 04:17:14 Ah. 04:21:30 Ooh, Miguel is thinking about a Mono port to OS X that integrates with Aqua. 04:22:09 * rillian rather hopes OS X with get GNUStep rolling a little faster 04:22:27 that'd be very cool. 04:22:42 But not the same as being able to run windows programs under aqua 04:24:16 who wants to run windows programs under aqua? 04:24:24 oh, nm 04:25:04 Hey, there are at least a couple decent windows programs i wouldn't mind running. 04:27:55 Heh, heh. Jeremiah got 0wned 04:45:56 tansaku (~sam@mtl10gw.mtl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) has joined #swhack 04:46:48 * AaronSw is listening to "Killer Queen" 04:47:05 Guaranteed to blow your mind 04:47:24 insatiable in appetite 04:47:31 wanna try? 04:47:48 to avoid conversation... 04:47:52 Kiiiiillllllller Queen 04:47:55 I love that song. I think I'll play it too 04:48:00 * sbp gets earphones 04:48:16 Let's coordinate the start... 04:48:33 O.K. [still sorting 'phones out] 04:49:13 [song ends] 04:49:35 O.K., I'm ready. Countdown! 04:49:39 3... 04:49:44 2... 04:49:55 Ok, hit it in one second 04:50:13 just like Marie Antoinette! 04:50:24 caviar and cigarettes... 04:50:29 Queeeeen! 04:50:35 any time! 04:50:44 wanna try? 04:50:46 [guitar] 04:50:56 she never kept the same address 04:51:08 I think I'm a bit ahead of you 04:51:11 naturally 04:51:20 And i think the opposite 04:51:25 any time! 04:51:25 :-) 04:51:36 must be typing delay :0 04:51:41 [guitar] 04:52:02 drop of a hat 04:52:13 drive you wild! 04:52:14 wild! 04:52:31 perfect timing there 04:52:34 wanna try? 04:52:34 [phasing] 04:52:42 wow, absolutely precise... 04:52:51 [fade-out] 04:52:56 [end] 04:53:02 indeed :-) 04:53:08 Heh, we get it enventually :) 04:53:12 heh, heh 04:53:35 * sbp needs to select a song from his vast selection 04:53:43 like T. Rex? 04:54:02 * sbp plays Telegram Sam regardless 04:54:02 * AaronSw AGs for it 05:02:11 * AaronSw plays too 05:04:30 I think tomorrow I'll spin back around and work on SPARTA stuff. 05:17:45 rillian has quit ("food!") 05:35:28 hooray, I wrote a fairly decent query engine 05:36:53 Awesome! 05:36:58 Hmm, I need to grab more Weley Willis songs. 05:37:50 Hmm, all the others seem pretty explicity. Maybe I won't then... 05:40:04 explicity? 05:40:19 err explicit 05:40:26 ah 05:40:29 wow, check out the action on www-html... 05:41:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Feb/0015.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Feb/0016.html 05:41:19 Somehow that sounds like something I shouldn't do. ;-) 05:41:27 you'll wince at this 05:42:06 LOL! 05:42:39 [for the record] unbelievable... he was being quite annoying, and *two* people send him off-list messages, very nicely written (polite etc.), and then he CAP flames them back, on list! 05:43:04 hopefully people will just leave him alone... 05:43:45 Clearly this virus subscribes people to www-html, and Eric is not the most well-versed person in Internet technologies. 05:44:01 I must say, great idea for a virus, tho. 05:44:06 heh, heh! 05:44:47 it started with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Feb/0001.html 05:44:50 Hmm, in a previous message, Eric clearly stated: "THIS IS A "HTML" EMAIL GROUP WE TALK ABOUT HTML ISSUES." 05:44:58 lol 05:45:11 In 0001 too. 05:45:52 it was funny that he repied to that notorious spam... but the funniest thing was that he didn't even reply to the (probably spoofed) sender 05:45:55 shit 05:46:07 what? 05:46:24 two of the dryers are not working 05:46:49 so I'm going to be up until 1:30 doing laundry 05:46:57 um... 05:47:08 Doesn't IBM pledge a company of openness? No discrimination against people of different heights, colors, soggy clothing... 05:47:29 I already washed four loads, assuming that all four dryers would be working 05:47:34 wear your SO's clothes 05:47:42 lol 05:47:50 * AaronSw giggles 05:50:58 Pff... what a rip-off: I worked for ages on Gofyniad, and nwo I'm able to match it with a few simple layered query functions. Why didn't I do that in the first place? 05:51:15 correction: nearly match it 05:51:35 blargh: and then there's transitive closure. That'll be fun 05:52:25 Not to be a jerk, but didn't I tell you like forty times to use a layered approach? 05:53:31 I think you told me once, and I didn't listen. The moral of the story: get Aaron to say things repetitively, until they sink in 05:53:59 I guess there are some things you have to learn the hard way. 05:54:01 ;-) 05:55:04 ooh, when I put in a transitive closure example, it says "no... no! ... NOOOOO!" 05:55:25 i.e. a right-royal bork-up is the result 05:55:30 Really, that's a very useful feature... 05:55:40 "Hey, query deely, process this!" 05:55:43 "no... no! ... NOOOOO!" 05:57:17 rquery seems to grok each bit fine, but by the time it gets to tquery, it goes arse-end up 05:57:43 lol 05:57:45 [[[ 05:57:45 On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 16:30, Eric wrote: 05:57:45 > AND THE SAME GOES FOR YOU 05:57:45 05:57:45 can we report him to spamcop yet? :P 05:57:46 ]]] 05:57:57 Killfiles, people. 05:58:19 pardon? 05:58:28 Without him, what would you talk about? 05:58:43 nothing. it's www-html, remember? 05:58:47 See. 05:59:10 oh, I very much agree. But this has to be the best discussion for a while 05:59:27 I mean, most list have juicy on-topic discussions once in a while, and they're really interesting 05:59:37 AaronSw has changed the topic to: THIS IS A "SWHACK" IRC CHANNEL WE TALK ABOUT SWHACK ISSUES. 05:59:38 but www-html's topic is all of the off-topic crap 05:59:43 lol! 06:00:18 * sbp is still laughing 06:00:29 * sbp smiles 06:00:34 Heh, heh 06:00:36 [and giggles a bit] 06:01:03 if only Eric were here. Perhaps I should invite him in? :-) 06:01:11 Heh! 06:01:45 ERIC OUR IRC CHANNEL IS DISCUSSING VIRUSS AND WE NEED YOUR SKILLZ PLEASE COME AND VISIT US 06:01:59 wmf has left #swhack 06:02:02 heh, heh 06:02:17 oh, it was just getting good 06:02:38 pff, can't he take a little SHOUTING? 06:03:32 * sbp very rarely types in caps, even for jokes 06:04:02 Heh, now a days -- but look in the archives... 06:04:13 oh dear... 06:04:35 I don't look at my old posts anymore. They frighten me 06:05:02 Urgh. OPN can be so slow sometimes. 06:05:21 Eric (~Snak@12-249-96-16.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 06:05:25 lol 06:05:26 HELLO SWHACKERS! 06:05:40 I AM GETTING VERY SICK OF DEALING WITH YOU PEOPLE 06:05:44 WHAT DO YOU WANT NOW??? 06:05:59 Hello Eric. I wondered if you could tell me the best way to bork a mailing list? 06:05:59 Umm, hello... 06:06:10 WHY DO YOU WANT TO BORK MAILING LISTS???? 06:06:14 THHEY ARE FOR PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSION 06:06:27 YOU MUST BE THE VIRUS SENDER DESTROYING GOOD MAILING LISTS!!! 06:06:27 and virus complaints, I believe 06:06:31 PLEASE STOP 06:06:38 heh, heh, heh 06:06:39 I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF YOUR VIRUSES 06:06:56 to quote you: "I AM GETTING VERY SICK OF THESE STUPID MESSAGES ALL THE TIME. 06:06:58 * AaronSw keeps quiet 06:07:04 heh 06:07:04 INDEED!!! 06:07:20 Pff, Eric would never say "INDEED"! surely!? 06:07:43 THIS IS A SERIOUS GROUP. DO NOT MAKE FUN OF MY LANGUAGE 06:07:50 WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS SWHACK ISSUES 06:08:14 so, what do you think of those third world countries then, Eric? 06:08:37 i am very sorry that i spoke about third world countries 06:08:44 people seem to have gotten the wrong impression. 06:09:03 Eric doesn't speak in lower case, either... I don't think he knows about the caps lock button :-) 06:09:12 Sure he does: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Feb/0005.html 06:09:30 Oh, wow. He must have accidentally brushed it, or something 06:09:36 ARE YOU MOCKING ME? 06:10:01 Wow, Aaron's quite clued up on ol' Eric 06:10:16 er... only a little bit 06:10:24 WHO IS THIS AARON? WHY DOESN'T HE GET A LIFE !!! 06:10:48 lol 06:10:57 Eric, could you please tell us what you meant by: "were did my 'height' go from the group" 06:11:05 Ooh, Eric can be polite: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/html-tidy/1999JulSep/0189.html 06:11:17 ARE YOU STUPID??? 06:11:25 I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE HEIGHT VIRUS YOU SENT ME 06:11:43 AH I KNOW YOU ARE PRETENDING NOT TO KNOW SO YOU LOOK NOT SO GUILTY 06:12:38 wow, he posted a y