IRC log of swhack on 2001-12-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:11:51 [sbp]
this is what we need to do for phenomic:-
00:11:53 [sbp]
[[[
00:11:53 [sbp]
This is first recorded in 1749 in the sense "an odd person". It
00:11:53 [sbp]
is *doubtful* that "quiz" came from an alleged incident in which
00:11:53 [sbp]
James Daly, a late-18th-century Dublin theatre manager, made a wager
00:11:53 [sbp]
that he could introduce a new word into the English language
00:11:54 [sbp]
overnight, and hired urchins to chalk the word "quiz" on every wall
00:11:56 [sbp]
and billboard in Dublin.
00:12:00 [sbp]
]]] - http://www.english-usage.com/faq.html
00:38:38 [hazmat]
hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack
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00:52:40 [sbp]
Funny how there isn't a good synonym for "Thesaurus"
00:52:54 [sbp]
treasure-trove, bounty, and alms-basket are close, but no cigar
00:53:08 [sbp]
.google "synonym for thesaurus"
00:53:09 [xena]
"synonym for thesaurus": http://teenwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa013101a.htm
00:53:57 [sbp]
This might be one of those occasions which most graciously merits a much invent'd phenomic word
00:55:46 [sbp]
it would almost certainly need to take its root in "trove"
00:56:39 [sbp]
And should probably be of one syllable
00:58:03 [sbp]
trave?
00:58:48 [sbp]
Nah, people will think it's a mispelling of "trove" - which it is
01:04:11 [sbp]
.google trave
01:04:11 [xena]
trave: http://www.leitthemen.de
01:09:44 [sbp]
sbp has changed the topic to: Popular sub-culture — all of your words are belong to us
01:10:10 [sbp]
Pff: "Popular sub-culture — all of your words are belong to us"
01:10:23 [sbp]
Â?
01:11:35 [sbp]
sbp has changed the topic to: Popular sub-culture - all of your words are belong to us
01:11:51 [sbp]
It's not a hyphen, it's an em-dash. Really. Just trust us
01:12:36 [sbp]
sbp has changed the topic to: Popular sub-culture - all your words are belong to us
01:12:42 [sbp]
Get it right, boy
01:13:26 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
01:16:47 [sbp]
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01:17:07 [sbp]
@ http://infomesh.net/2001/QuickPut/
01:17:10 [chumpster]
A: QuickPut - An HTTP PUT Tool in Python from sbp
01:17:27 [sbp]
A::"""QuickPut is a little command line tool written in Python that enables one to upload a file to a server using the HTTP PUT method. It supports both basic and digest HTTP authentication, but does not solve the lost update problem."""
01:17:28 [chumpster]
commented item A
01:17:40 [sbp]
A::An #swhack exclusive!
01:17:41 [chumpster]
commented item A
01:18:52 [sbp]
A::Next up: a PUT Wiki. I managed to port a Perl HTTP PUT handler to Python, and get it running under apache
01:18:52 [chumpster]
commented item A
01:22:52 [sbp]
A::The PUT handler and a copy of QuickPut are available in a [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0163|mail that I just sent] to www-archive
01:22:53 [chumpster]
commented item A
01:23:04 [sbp]
Who needs a server when you have #swhack and www-archive?
01:26:01 [sbp]
When you think about it, if Alexa and Google can store all that content, there's not much need for people paying out for server space. Memory is so cheap these days, so the situation is getting better
01:26:11 [sbp]
Surely
01:26:24 [deltab]
if it's an em dash, it should be -- at least
01:26:45 [deltab]
or go with UTF-8 and use  
01:27:51 [sbp]
No, I don't like "--"... it sucks. As for UTF, at least a hyphen displays in all browsers that I know of
01:28:16 [sbp]
I'm sure that people can understand that a hyphen with whitespace either side is an em-dash
01:28:22 [deltab]
if it's HTML you're after, &emdash;
01:28:47 [sbp]
I don't think it'd work - Aaron's server would convert it into &emdash;
01:29:14 [sbp]
Aaron'
01:29:21 [deltab]
good
01:29:22 [sbp]
Aaron's server is like that
01:30:12 [deltab]
personally I agree about - and --
01:30:23 [deltab]
but then I'm using a monospaced font :-)
01:30:40 [sbp]
Heh, heh
01:32:13 [sbp]
Is there anything other than monospaced for IRC? I think not
01:32:36 [deltab]
sure, tav's client uses a proportional font
01:32:48 [deltab]
and I used to use proportional fonts
01:34:07 [sbp]
I couldn't get along with a proportional font. I tried it a couple of times, but it never looks quite right
01:34:25 [sbp]
And when people paste in ASCII-art, it goes all out of shape
01:34:43 [deltab]
yeah
01:34:54 [tav`]
hang out in #ascii-girls much?
01:35:03 [deltab]
should be easily switchable
01:35:26 [sbp]
Well, I just prefer fixed-width
01:35:39 [tav`]
dan: agreed
01:36:06 [sbp]
agreed? It's not a point for debate. Your client either lets you switch it, or it doesn't
01:36:18 [sbp]
s/switch it/switch it easily/
01:37:15 [tav`]
i understood deltab to be saying "it should be easily switchable between fixed and proportional"
01:37:34 [sbp]
Hmm... Perhaps he can set us straight
01:37:51 [tav`]
any half decent client allows you to swtich, but never with ease
01:38:04 [tav`]
indeed
01:38:19 [sbp]
no. I think that he would have used "shall" rather than "should" if it were to be interpreted as you did
01:38:36 [sbp]
Hmm... perhaps not
01:38:40 [sbp]
Blargh
01:40:09 [tav`]
deltab: would be good time for you to speak ;p
01:40:20 [sbp]
Heh, heh
01:52:07 [deltab]
maybe I should've said 'ought to' instead
01:58:48 [sbp]
Ah, so tav was correct
01:58:52 [sbp]
Ugh: http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/
02:00:02 [sbp]
[[[
02:00:03 [sbp]
Syn: Ought, Should.
02:00:03 [sbp]
02:00:03 [sbp]
Usage: Both words imply obligation, but ought is the
02:00:03 [sbp]
stronger. Should may imply merely an obligation of
02:00:03 [sbp]
propriety, expendiency, etc.; ought denotes an
02:00:05 [sbp]
obligation of duty.
02:00:07 [sbp]
]]] - http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=ought
02:00:38 [deltab]
'it would be good if'
02:02:14 [tav`]
heh
03:16:20 [sbp]
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03:48:01 [sbp]
why is rxvt giving stuff like:-
03:48:03 [sbp]
[[[
03:48:03 [sbp]
\[\033]0;\w\007
03:48:03 [sbp]
\033[32m\]\u@\h \[\033[33m\w\033[0m\]
03:48:04 [sbp]
]]]
03:49:31 [sbp]
I suppose that they're meant to be color codes etc., but it's not working
03:50:14 [sbp]
ah: "green user@host with a blue pathname" - http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/01/07/06/122259.shtml
03:56:54 [deltab]
what, all of that?
03:57:04 [sbp]
Yep
03:57:04 [deltab]
are you using bash or something else?
03:57:17 [sbp]
I opened up bash, and did "rxvt"
03:57:32 [sbp]
then an rxvt window popped up, and had that crap for a command prompt
03:58:12 [deltab]
echo $BASH_VERSION
03:58:46 [sbp]
2.05a.0(2)-release
03:59:37 [deltab]
hm, should work then
04:00:26 [deltab]
green user@host and yellow working dir, I think
04:00:32 [sbp]
But it'
04:00:48 [sbp]
it's not bash that gives the problem - it's the rxvt Window
04:02:00 [deltab]
type this: printf '\e[32mhi\e[m\n'
04:02:23 [deltab]
and tell me what you see
04:04:00 [sbp]
[[[
04:04:00 [sbp]
printf: \e: invalid escape
04:04:00 [sbp]
\[\033]0;\w\007
04:04:00 [sbp]
\033[32m\]\u@\h \[\033[33m\w\033[0m\]
04:04:01 [sbp]
]]]
04:04:25 [deltab]
hmm
04:04:49 [deltab]
try that with echo -e in place of printf
04:05:31 [sbp]
[[[
04:05:32 [sbp]
\e[32mhi\e[m
04:05:32 [sbp]
\[\033]0;\w\007
04:05:32 [sbp]
\033[32m\]\u@\h \[\033[33m\w\033[0m\]
04:05:32 [sbp]
$
04:05:32 [sbp]
\[\033]0;\w\007
04:05:34 [sbp]
\033[32m\]\u@\h \[\033[33m\w\033[0m\]
04:05:36 [sbp]
]]]
04:06:13 [deltab]
very strange
04:06:35 [deltab]
type bash and one of those again
04:06:47 [deltab]
i.e. start a bash subshell
04:07:28 [sbp]
green "hi"
04:07:34 [deltab]
great
04:07:49 [sbp]
bash under rxvt is fine
04:07:57 [deltab]
so the problem is not with rxvt but with whatever shell you're running
04:08:06 [deltab]
ps $$
04:08:15 [deltab]
er, exit from bash first
04:08:30 [sbp]
[[[
04:08:30 [sbp]
PID PPID PGID WINPID TTY UID STIME COMMAND
04:08:30 [sbp]
125766589 1 125766589 4169200707 con 500 04:02:58 /usr/bin/BASH
04:08:30 [sbp]
123781785 125766589 123781785 4293962003 con 500 04:08:27 /usr/bin/RXVT
04:08:30 [sbp]
123785281 123781785 123785281 4171175027 0 500 04:08:28 /usr/bin/SH
04:08:30 [sbp]
1004165 123785281 123785281 4293963131 0 500 04:09:55 /usr/bin/PS
04:08:32 [sbp]
]]]
04:09:13 [deltab]
only one was meant to be listed :-)
04:10:34 [sbp]
they're all the shells I have open?
04:11:32 [deltab]
$$ is normally replaced by a single pid
04:13:04 [deltab]
echo $$
04:13:06 [sbp]
Hmm... if I start rxvt by itself, it doesn't do anything... so I need to do bash/rxvt/bash
04:13:21 [sbp]
echo $$ in what?
04:13:34 [deltab]
whatever rxvt is running
04:13:38 [sbp]
125774381
04:13:56 [sbp]
(bash/rxvt)
04:14:32 [deltab]
hrm
04:14:59 [deltab]
try running rxvt bash
04:15:13 [deltab]
er
04:15:18 [deltab]
rxvt -e bash
04:15:59 [sbp]
I get bash-in-rxvt in a new window
04:16:08 [sbp]
oh, you mean from scratch? I
04:16:10 [sbp]
I'll try
04:16:40 [deltab]
I assume you're using cygwin
04:16:50 [sbp]
Yes
04:20:28 [deltab]
does the prompt appear correctly?
04:20:46 [sbp]
it does when I start it from bash, but not from Windows
04:21:16 [deltab]
how are you doing that?
04:21:23 [sbp]
using a batch file
04:21:53 [sbp]
[[[
04:21:53 [sbp]
chdir C:\[...]\Cygwin\bin
04:21:53 [sbp]
rxvt -e bash
04:21:54 [sbp]
]]]
04:22:17 [deltab]
does that work?
04:22:45 [sbp]
nope, it just folds. When I load up rxvt by itself (taking out the -e bash), it runs, but it can't access any of the CygWin stuff
04:23:05 [deltab]
when you say it runs, what does it do?
04:23:14 [deltab]
oh, the odd shell thing
04:23:54 [sbp]
nope, this time it doesn't give the odd shell junk, but it doesn't access any of the CygWin directory structure. Can't even run ls etc.
04:24:08 [deltab]
so what do you have?
04:24:54 [sbp]
e.g.:-
04:24:55 [sbp]
[[[
04:24:55 [sbp]
$ ls
04:24:55 [sbp]
ls: not found
04:24:55 [sbp]
$
04:24:56 [sbp]
]]]
04:25:11 [sbp]
That's when I start rxvt from Windows, using the batch file
04:25:27 [deltab]
ah
04:25:30 [deltab]
echo $PATH
04:25:43 [deltab]
pwd
04:27:06 [sbp]
PATH displays my usual PATH stuff, and pwd gives /usr/bin
04:27:38 [sbp]
Hmm... actually, all of the stuff in the PATH has /cygdrive/c/ rather than c:/
04:28:00 [sbp]
but that's basically the same under bash
04:29:13 [sbp]
aha, /usr/bin isn't in the PATH info
04:29:29 [sbp]
if I run /usr/bin/ls it works
04:29:40 [deltab]
./ls should also work
04:29:50 [sbp]
yep, sure does
04:35:23 [sbp]
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04:36:42 [sbp]
I just did: PATH=${PATH}:/usr/bin
04:36:45 [sbp]
and it works now...
04:36:50 [deltab]
* deltab nods
04:37:38 [deltab]
there's likely some file you can add that to
04:37:57 [sbp]
* sbp hunts around
04:41:46 [sbp]
ah! rxvt -e /usr/bin/bash --login -i
04:41:58 [sbp]
Works perfectly
04:43:16 [sbp]
Thanks for your help, deltab
04:59:52 [sbp]
RXVT takes over...
04:59:53 [sbp]
rxvt -bg black -fg lightgrey -sl 10000 -e /usr/bin/bash --login -i
05:06:11 [sbp]
Oh, CygWin kicks-ass.
05:43:31 [sbp]
Hmm... nano is pretty intuitive
05:44:59 [sbp]
In fact, it's almost a Notepad-for-*nix
05:49:45 [sbp]
it's a shame it can't cut a range of selected text, other than a line... but it's still pretty good
05:59:54 [sbp]
Ooh: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
06:02:17 [sbp]
Gotta run
06:12:56 [deltab]
ctrl-^
06:34:02 [sbp]
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06:50:41 [AaronSw-UK]
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07:55:42 [AaronSw-UK]
hi
08:04:26 [AaronSw-UK]
c'ya tav
08:37:53 [AaronSw-UK]
@ http://info.alexa.com/data/destination_site
08:37:56 [chumpster]
B: http://info.alexa.com/data/destination_site from AaronSw-UK
08:38:26 [AaronSw-UK]
B:|Alexa (Redesigned)
08:38:27 [chumpster]
titled item B
08:38:36 [AaronSw-UK]
B::Is Alexa going to be the next Yahoo! or something?
08:38:37 [chumpster]
commented item B
08:40:17 [AaronSw-UK]
B::Their XSLT-based system (see previous chumpings) needs some work. While [it provides useful Alexa stats|http://info.alexa.com/data/details?url=http://web.archive.org/] it also seems to get some things confused. Like what does this comment have to do with the Web Archive?: "Yo mate, this kid is a friend of mine and is just getting his site up a going. Been a good student and takes a mean pic. Keep of the good work and suport this web man."
08:40:18 [chumpster]
commented item B
08:43:47 [AaronSw-UK]
B::I'm not sure exactly where they're going. It seems a little odd that after they got [bought by Amazon|http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-341688.html] they started doing [comparison shopping|http://www.alexa.com/exec/faqsidos/help/index.html?index=60].
08:44:25 [chumpster]
commented item B
08:49:32 [AaronSw-UK]
Heh heh @ the figlet atop http://clark.dallas.tx.us/kendall/
09:36:52 [AaronSw-UK]
* AaronSw-UK notes that tav is not on time
09:39:17 [AaronSw-UK]
.seen aaronsw
09:39:17 [xena]
AaronSw seen joining #rdfig ~ 1 day(s) 21 hr(s) 18 min(s) 25 sec(s) ago
09:39:24 [AaronSw-UK]
hmm
09:41:36 [AaronSw-UK]
.email gwachob@wachob.com mealling and urcs/urns // can you send a copy of his response to www-archive for all the world to see? Sounds like he said some interesting things. Thanks.
09:41:36 [xena]
email successfully sent.
09:43:19 [AaronSw-UK]
looks like tav is here
09:43:20 [AaronSw-UK]
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11:45:21 [AaronSw-UK]
AaronSw-UK is now known as BenSw
11:46:35 [BenSw]
* BenSw waves
11:46:38 [BenSw]
hi
12:14:33 [[gone]slydder]
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BenSw has quit ("tav")
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15:13:48 [AaronSw-UK]
and tav leaves
15:14:27 [AaronSw-UK]
Well, that was cool. tav seemed sort of disappointed that we didn't get much done, but I was trying to use the time to establish shared context as opposed to really planning something.
15:15:14 [AaronSw-UK]
tav is much taller than his nick implies.
15:16:18 [AaronSw-UK]
i think i succeeded in the context thing -- i now sort of understand the vision
15:17:03 [AaronSw-UK]
altho i think my scattershot approach to questions sort of confused him
15:18:54 [AaronSw-UK]
and i got a cool photo of him saying hmz
15:20:16 [AaronSw-UK]
tav also has a cool walk
16:17:54 [AaronSw-UK]
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17:05:18 [MysticOne]
[GloblaNotice] Hello all, just a quick reminder for everyone... If anyone asks you to join #secrets, please do not. Due to some problems with a bunch of clone bots joining that particular channel, an automatic kline is issued for any user/host that attemps to join that channel. We've had a large number of people join this channel by mistake and get klined. So, do yourself a favor, and don't attempt it. Hopefully the clones will die off at some point. Thank y
17:14:23 [rillian]
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17:55:37 [rillian]
* rillian waves hello
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22:14:45 [sbp]
Crap, I broke a string
22:15:22 [sbp]
Aaaaargh! Now I have to find another D-string from somewhere...
22:17:53 [sbp]
* sbp finds an old A-String in his mess of strings. It'll probably explode, but oh well
22:21:16 [deltab]
a what?
22:23:14 [sbp]
Oh, damnit! It's not even long enough... I trimmed it. So now I'm going to have to tie it... heh, heh
22:23:25 [sbp]
a string
22:27:23 [sbp]
* sbp finds a length of D, cuts a bit off
22:37:26 [sbp]
* sbp finds that the strings actually fits, but has to denute by another step, and put the capo up a couple of frets... eek
23:01:47 [AaronSw-UK]
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23:02:44 [AaronSw-UK]
@ http://www.lordoftherings.net/
23:02:51 [chumpster]
C: http://www.lordoftherings.net/ from AaronSw-UK
23:03:29 [AaronSw-UK]
C:|The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
23:03:30 [chumpster]
titled item C
23:03:45 [AaronSw-UK]
C::A very nice movie!
23:03:46 [chumpster]
commented item C
23:05:24 [sbp]
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23:38:21 [rillian]
AaronSw-UK: just saw it? it's awesome that they're doing a simultaneous release
23:39:28 [rillian]
C::If you were worried about being disappointed because of the hype...don't be.
23:39:30 [chumpster]
commented item C
23:51:15 [AaronSw-UK]
Yeah, just saw it.
23:51:27 [AaronSw-UK]
On a nice big screen.
23:54:24 [AaronSw-UK]
nite
23:54:29 [AaronSw-UK]
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