00:03:58 Nice: "In Zope 3, objects will still take advantage of acquisition, but in much more explicit ways." 00:06:23 hopefully acquisition can be made optional.... writing large python systems in zope is made much harder by acquisition imo. 00:06:34 Yeah. 00:06:45 Hmm, I'm not sure about all this offloading of metadata into XML files. 00:08:28 i didn't like it at first, smells like j2ee :), but its an extensible configurable file format. in the end i think its probably a win, although a non xml format based on something simple like ConfigParser from the stdlib might be a nice alternative for basic config. 00:09:55 as much of z3 is fluid, raising a voice/throwing a stone can have signifigant impact. if you're interested the list is at http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-dev 00:10:20 well it's not so much the xml that i'm worried about, but the fact it's not included in the class itself 00:10:51 i don't like having to write a class, an interface file, a metadata file, etc. 00:11:37 some of it can probably be automated, the interface generation for instance, Interfaces has a utility method impliedInterfaceForClass or some such. 00:12:26 cool 00:12:56 It certainly seems awfully close to what i designed this morning. 00:13:27 but i wonder if i'm missing something because there's all this stuff i don't understand 00:14:04 ugh, .html and index.html madness 00:14:08 in http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/ZopeComponentArchitecture/PythonProgrammerTutorial/Chapter1/Step4/README.txt?rev=1.5&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup 00:14:44 wow, the similarities really are quite striking 00:18:03 as far as url madness, the .html/index.html doesn't bother me as that is implementation specific, i'm a little concerned over the frameworks presentation url stuff http://www.zope.org//Members/michel/Components/Components/ThoughtsOnURLsForTheNewReligion 00:18:50 sbp (~sean@m196-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:18:53 yeah, that scares me 00:20:19 hey sbp 00:20:22 Hi 00:20:33 which do you think is better for versions: 00:20:39 er... ~ 00:20:42 Have you managed to work out what day you're going to come down? 00:20:47 not really 00:21:05 Well let me know - other people are visiting, and I want to plan it 00:21:28 Oh, other people are visiting... hmm. 00:21:37 I like this: "presentation components name thier application components" 00:22:09 Well not at the same time as you :-) Just Stu, and possibly family. But I want to make sure that there are no conflicting events 00:22:52 Ah. 00:23:03 Well, I'll lobby for Sun/Mon 00:23:11 Hmm, I didn't know Ben came on. 00:23:59 tav`: how is 2:00 PM tomorrow? at the churchill hotel 00:26:16 ok, now i must sleep. 00:26:35 Pff, it's only half-past-midnight! :-) 00:26:49 heh heh 00:26:57 that's when i get to go to sleep in the us :-) 00:26:57 Have a nice sleep 00:26:58 .time cst 00:26:59 Dec. 27, 2001 6:28 pm US/Central 00:28:34 tav, leave a message at 02074865800 room 740 if that's not ok 00:28:41 nite all 00:28:48 c'ya 00:29:03 AaronSw-UK has quit ("sleep") 00:29:19 Heh, it's good that he's in a sensible time-zone for a change 00:30:42 where does aaron live normally? 00:33:27 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m165-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 00:33:45 sbp (~sean@m165-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:08:28 Hi all. Just to remind you. Channels #secrets and #!/bin/sh are bot-infested and we are juping them again. If you try to join those channels, you will be k-lined and will need to write to support@openprojects.net for help. Please don't, and if you see anyone asking someone to join one of those channels, tell them not to. Thanks again. 02:09:59 hazmat is now known as lethedrinker 02:15:07 lethedrinker is now known as hazmat 02:16:11 Ah, nick-joke-spill-over 02:16:21 .google lethedrinker 02:16:22 lethedrinker: http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/2001-11-04.txt 02:16:33 Hmm... 02:17:59 Well, Aaron's "archive everything, archive it now, archive it to the Web" policy helps a little bit 02:24:41 not really if the archive gives no context. 02:28:20 True 02:28:45 But now you're here... would you care to enlighten me (and the rest of the Google-knowing world?) :-) 02:28:53 s/?)/)?/ 02:33:12 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m468-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 02:33:31 sbp (~sean@m468-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:34:20 sorry i tend to drop in and out frequently, intersting talk on #zope, its dying down know. 02:34:51 cool 02:34:52 lethe being the river that forgets, and me being a frequent drinker. think memento (the movie) 02:35:09 Ah, I don't think it's been on over here yet 02:35:18 .google river lethe 02:35:18 river lethe: http://rescomp.stanford.edu/dorms/wilbur/okada/ok00/first.htm 02:35:45 umm.. not quite 02:36:06 sbp: thats ok, any pub will take you there :) 02:36:48 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/3803/lethe.html 02:37:47 aha, neat 02:39:44 heh, heh: http://www.cs.reading.ac.uk/archive/palindrome/emordnilap/evihcra/ku.ca.gdr.sc.www/:ptth/ 02:41:58 technically, it needs to have the "/" taken off of the end 02:43:07 http://eserver.org/langs/palindromes.txt 02:45:07 You can cage a swallow can't you, but you can't swallow a cage can you? 02:45:54 african swallow? 02:46:21 * hazmat rewinds monty python and the holy grail 02:49:54 interesting link 03:12:59 .py raise SystemExit 03:18:17 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:50:32 For some odd reason, I got to thinking about a perfect browser last night, so I should scribe some of my thoughts into this /dev/null ish IRC channel 03:50:47 O.K. 03:52:03 So, the first thing I thought of is that browsers are just too cluttery these days. Bookmarks? Who cares - if we had better HyperText editors, bookmarks would be pretty obsolete. And this chaning of components... I just want a browser, not an browser/editor/email/irc/whaever combination 03:52:35 Anyway, my "perfect" browser would probably have just two functions - browse Web, edit text 03:52:42 s/functions/modes/ 03:53:35 Because I also think that text editors generally suck. Once again, most of the time I just want something that loads quickly, and can do simple stuff like search and replace. If I'm going to do anything complex, I'll run a script of some kind on it 03:53:57 So a WebBrowser/TextEditor combination would be great 03:54:42 That way, you could have a mode to show a resource as text/plain (kinda equivalent to view-source), and then edit the thing that you have in the browser window, saving the result 03:54:56 So it'd have to be able to save over HTTP (using PUT), and FTP, and locally 03:55:27 It would also be neat to have a redirect function, so that when you save to http://example.org/blargh, it actually saves it to the relevent FTP server 03:55:52 Of course, you'd have to beware of bloat, but something simple like that should be alright 03:56:04 that could be done by a proxy 03:56:39 Yeah. I was thinking of creating a utility proxy... there have been a number of little things for which I've thought "well, a proxy could do that" 03:57:19 I should have written them down, really. Ah, ad-blocking was probably one application 03:59:36 sbp: mozilla has a component architecture, has embedded python, and an xml based ui... its not a browser, its a cross platform application framework :) 04:00:52 I was just about to suggest that a "perfect browser" is in the mind of the beholder only; that you need open, modularized, extensible browser frameworks in order to have a chance of satisfying everyone 04:01:20 But the great majority of people don't want to sit down and design/build a browser... 04:05:24 i rather build my own... 04:07:21 heh, heh 04:07:56 fuck the traditional browser, mozilla can help make web applications that feel like a desktop app. collaspse the interface. or it can be an new application with dynamic installation of new functionality/apps, security, rdf:) support, protocols,... sigh. perhaps i need to drink some more of the lethe 04:09:50 Hmm... I just want something that browses half decently, and edits text. I've not really found anything close, yet 04:11:21 opera? 04:17:56 Nah 04:34:06 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m547-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:34:24 sbp (~sean@m547-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:52:37 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m561-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:52:54 sbp (~sean@m561-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 05:22:21 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 05:28:26 hazmat has left #swhack 06:29:59 sbp (~sean@m594-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 06:38:36 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 06:41:53 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 09:02:09 hypomanic (kmnguyen@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu) has joined #swhack 09:02:57 hypomanic has left #swhack 10:05:18 tansaku (sam@mfs-pci-bqh-vty4.as.wcom.net) has joined #swhack 10:24:31 tansaku has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:20:04 xena has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:20:05 hazmat has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:20:54 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 12:20:54 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 12:20:58 tav` has quit (Excess Flood) 12:21:32 tav` (tav@host217-34-83-190.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 15:35:56 AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACA71F76.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 15:36:29 * AaronSw-UK drops in for a sec before he has to go. 15:40:06 A::Well, we got a temporary AOL account which seems to work, while sparing us some really outrageous hotel phone bills. 15:40:09 commented item A 15:41:28 this is cool: http://www.creativemac.com/2001/12_dec/features/applequicktimelive011217.htm 15:41:44 """Apple is moving everything--"every piece of our architecture and infrastructure," according to Casanova--toward open standards and attempting to bring others along with them.""" 15:43:36 sbp, Memento is a great movie. Be sure to watch it many times ASAP. 15:44:05 What have I done? On the phone tav said he was excited to see I "liked" Zope3. 15:45:08 * AaronSw-UK notes to sbp that ArchiverProxy does a nice job of adblocking. 15:45:18 There are a ton of Python adblocking proxies, really. 15:47:39 The one thing that sucks about the UK is the cameras everywhere. 15:48:08 Ooh, December Googlefriends 15:48:39 Google: "[In 2001] We reached profitability as a company" 15:49:35 - Google opens an office in Hamburg 15:49:45 Google principles: http://www.google.com/corporate/today.html 15:51:15 history: http://www.google.com/corporate/history.html 15:52:16 2001 timeline: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html 16:00:03 http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2001/12/18/eguillermo.DTL 16:01:44 c'ya 16:01:44 AaronSw-UK has quit ("sleep") 16:53:47 sbp (~sean@m913-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 17:54:41 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 18:51:45 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m588-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 18:52:03 sbp (~sean@m588-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 19:02:48 deus_x (~deusx@nic-34-c160-7.mw.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack 19:56:31 .seen AaronSw 19:56:32 AaronSw seen joining #rdfig ~ 7 hr(s) 35 min(s) 39 sec(s) ago 20:52:57 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 20:53:18 hazmat has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 20:53:49 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack 21:32:23 sbp (~sean@m820-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:01:39 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 22:01:58 sbp (~sean@m23-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:42:55 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 22:46:36 sbp (~sean@m307-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 23:14:33 deus_x has quit ("Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.0.1") 23:18:49 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting")