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05:00:44 <sbp> Ugh, what is it with Freenet and not inserting keys?
05:01:58 <sbp> Heh, I'm certainly most interested in the 'Plex as a publishing mechanism. Don't want to have to refer to my files by hash, though... it's the crytographic vs. human readability thing
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07:02:59 <AaronSw-UK> AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC8E87DB.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
07:05:51 <AaronSw-UK> A::(2001-12-27) On again, off again... <sigh /> Anyone know of a decent Internet provider in the UK? Still haven't been able to check my email, but did see the very interesting [easyEverything|http://www.easyeverything.com/], a completely automated Internet café. They apparently got rid of the humans that ran the physical place recently, and now have people email their questions to the managers.
07:05:54 <chumpster> commented item A
07:17:09 <AaronSw-UK> AaronSw-UK has changed the topic to: Happy Box-Tossing Day!
07:24:45 <AaronSw-UK> i wonder about that provider sbp is using
07:25:42 <AaronSw-UK> Odd: "We are sorry to loose you as a BTinternet customer and would like to thank you for your custom."
07:25:45 <AaronSw-UK> My custom?
07:25:52 <AaronSw-UK> I didn't know it could be used it that sense.
07:27:12 <AaronSw-UK> .time cst
07:27:12 <xena> Dec. 27, 2001 1:28 am US/Central
07:37:59 <tav`> heh
07:38:02 <tav`> morning
07:38:31 <tav`> easyEverything's cool
07:38:38 <AaronSw-UK> morning
07:38:40 <AaronSw-UK> yeah, seemed like a nice place.
07:38:43 <tav`> i used to spend my nites there when i was homeless
07:38:56 <AaronSw-UK> ah, that's why they have that "beware of thieves" message up
07:39:03 <tav`> ;p
07:39:13 <tav`> i was there for the net access
07:39:30 <AaronSw-UK> heh, i know. what would you recommend for an ISP?
07:40:02 <tav`> hmz, bti / clara
07:40:07 <tav`> custom = your business
07:40:19 <AaronSw-UK> hmm
07:40:21 <tav`> it's quite frequently used in that context
07:40:39 <tav`> bti suck, but you can sign up in minutes
07:41:20 <AaronSw-UK> yeah, i already did
07:41:35 <tav`> http://www.claranet.co.uk/homeaccess
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07:42:39 <tav`> how you finding london?
07:42:57 <AaronSw-UK> i like it a lot
07:43:13 <tav`> where you been so far?
07:43:14 <AaronSw-UK> we went on a taxi tour of the city yesterday, and it looks really cool
07:44:08 <AaronSw-UK> well, we went on that tour, and then had lunch at a creperie, picked up some stuff at Dixons
07:44:17 <tav`> !
07:44:17 <AaronSw-UK> and just walked around a bit
07:44:22 <tav`> wtf would you shop at dixons?
07:44:42 <AaronSw-UK> because they're the only store in the whole city open on  boxing day?
07:45:04 <tav`> hmz, not true
07:45:07 <tav`> but, ok
07:45:12 <tav`> what did you buy?
07:45:22 <tav`> * tav` hopes it was nothing expensive
07:45:27 <AaronSw-UK> a dinky phone cord so i can get on the internet
07:45:30 <tav`> ah
07:45:41 <tav`> they're the best place for that then
07:45:52 <AaronSw-UK> ok
07:46:01 <tav`> got a 9.99 dual phone thing had to get conversions for my american cords
07:46:25 <AaronSw-UK> should i not buy my 50,000 new computer system there?
07:46:33 <AaronSw-UK> ;-)
07:46:55 <tav`> you could tell me which store before you buy, i could then get a slice of the fat commission then ;p
07:47:10 <AaronSw-UK> heh heh
07:47:40 <tav`> if you are into electronics, there are some real nice places that will sell you on real low margins, especially if you pay in cash
07:47:44 <tav`> the goods are legit
07:48:02 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK is attacked by angry brother demanding internet -- bbiab
07:48:07 <tav`> but their relationship with inland revenue may not be ;p
07:48:13 <tav`> k
07:48:16 <tav`> * tav` waves to ben
07:55:37 <AaronSw-UK> heh
07:55:54 <AaronSw-UK> Ben:Hi
08:12:33 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK tries to connect thru bti
08:12:45 <AaronSw-UK> AaronSw-UK has quit ("laters")
08:37:12 <tav`> hmz
08:38:22 <tav`> tav` is now known as tav|esp|esp
08:38:28 <tav|esp|esp> tav|esp|esp is now known as tav`
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16:18:54 <AaronSw-UK> AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC84C8AC.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
16:19:08 <AaronSw-UK> well, bti didn't work -- says my password is wrong
16:34:00 <tav`> did you use whatever@btinternet.com ?
16:34:11 <tav`> btw, where would you be tomorrow @ 1?
16:47:36 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m634-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
16:47:57 <sbp> * sbp waves
16:48:01 <AaronSw-UK> hey sbp!
16:48:19 <AaronSw-UK> tav, oh -- i used btopenworld.com
16:50:01 <sbp> So, Aaron - how are you? How is England? Where are you? What have you visited? Have you seen the Queen yet?
16:51:37 <AaronSw-UK> Good, you? Great! At my hotel. A bunch of things. No, she's on vacation.
16:51:41 <AaronSw-UK> But she did bake us a cake.
16:52:04 <AaronSw-UK> tav`, nope btinternet doesn't work either
16:53:26 <AaronSw-UK> tomorrow we're thinking of going to see the tower, but that'd mean we'd have to have lunch at 1.
16:54:31 <sbp> How's the Jet Lag?
16:54:59 <AaronSw-UK> I'm doing fine. We came in during Xmas day, so i didn't lose any sleep. others aren't doing so well, tho
16:58:35 <AaronSw-UK> now we're trying to decide on dinner
16:58:58 <sbp> Fish and chips!
16:59:44 <AaronSw-UK> Heh, we were thinking of doing "Traditional British", but I doubt I'd be able to stomach it.
17:00:36 <sbp> Depends where you go
17:04:38 <AaronSw-UK> i haven't been able to check my email in days, tho
17:05:28 <AaronSw-UK> i hope no one sent anything important
17:07:45 <AaronSw-UK> oh, i can't resist...
17:07:49 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK checks some of his mail
17:18:43 <AaronSw-UK> A::Loyal reader [Julian Bond|http://voidstar.com/] (hi there!) points me to [Madasafish|http://www.Madasafish.com/] as an ISP. I already tried BTI (on tav's suggestion) for a bit and had no luck -- perhaps this will be better.
17:18:46 <chumpster> commented item A
17:19:16 <sbp> We have loyal readers?
17:20:05 <AaronSw-UK> Apparently. I'm excited!
17:20:31 <hazmat> :)
17:20:35 <AaronSw-UK> I wonder whereabouts Julian is.
17:20:50 <AaronSw-UK> Hmm, Hertfordshire -- where's that?
17:21:30 <sbp> Herts. - Midlands
17:22:37 <sbp> Well... low midlands. Not far from London
17:23:03 <AaronSw-UK> cool
17:25:44 <sbp> heh: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2001/12/21/2002.html
17:25:53 <sbp> """Your computer only needs to know how to construct its message such that it conforms -- more or less -- to the latest rev of the holy book of Standards, slap an IP address on the ass-end of it, and ship it out to the intended recipient, who interprets it according to that same holy writ."""
17:26:31 <sbp> Gotta run
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17:26:39 <AaronSw-UK> Yeah, that was a good article.
17:26:43 <AaronSw-UK> C'ya
17:30:12 <AaronSw-UK> McCusker: "My own religion is that we all just die. But culture goes on."
17:35:02 <AaronSw-UK> I woke up really early this morning, so I started to think about Blogspace.
17:35:16 <AaronSw-UK> I'm starting to understand where it fits in again, and I think it might be worth working on.
17:35:43 <AaronSw-UK> I've generalized it further, and want to use it as the basis of the photo web app.
17:36:03 <AaronSw-UK> I also want it to build on something like Sparta, so the data stored is in RDF.
17:36:18 <AaronSw-UK> (There are some obvious tie-ins to the Plex here.)
17:37:01 <AaronSw-UK> I also noticed that the Blogspaced model is very similar to an OO rendition of HTTP.
17:37:35 <AaronSw-UK> And I tried to think about how OO methods could be rendered in RDF. (Haven't figured it out yet.)
17:37:56 <AaronSw-UK> I'm having my methods return Python dictionaries, which can be used by the templating system.
17:38:13 <AaronSw-UK> I like having the system template-driven, not code-driven like the ACS was.
17:38:45 <AaronSw-UK> Anyone have any thoughts on whether ~ or : is better for identifying versions?
17:38:59 <AaronSw-UK> I want to do something like /page~5 to represent the 5th revision of page.
17:44:50 <sbp> sbp (~sean@m851-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack
17:46:56 <AaronSw-UK> wb
17:47:11 <sbp> thanks
17:47:13 <sbp> * sbp has uninstalled Windows XP
17:47:28 <AaronSw-UK> That was fast.
17:47:56 <sbp> Yeah; it only took a few minutes. Quite impressive. Now I have to make sure nothing's gone astray etc., but it seems alright
17:48:16 <AaronSw-UK> Heh.
17:48:28 <AaronSw-UK> We got a new machine with XP on it -- seems like it's out of some bad cartoon.
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17:48:52 <AaronSw-UK> hi GabeW
17:49:00 <GabeW> man, you irc addict
17:49:13 <sbp> Well, the color scheme is a matter of opinion
17:49:48 <AaronSw-UK> Heh, this is like my first real time on IRC in days.
17:50:07 <GabeW> i noticed
17:50:21 <GabeW> but what is it with you people who travel on vacation and end up on irc (bram, for example)?
17:50:30 <AaronSw-UK> and i've resisted email until just now too
17:50:56 <AaronSw-UK> travel and IRC sort of go together...unless you go to some country without internet access
17:54:45 <sbp> sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
17:55:29 <hazmat> AaronSw-UK: why not something zopeish, it is an object publishing paradigm taken to the web.
17:56:00 <AaronSw-UK> yeah, i need to look at the zope docs
17:56:02 <hazmat> RDF generation can be accomplished via templates (either DTML, or ZPT (namespace attribute language))
17:56:19 <AaronSw-UK> err zope3 docs
17:56:26 <AaronSw-UK> well, i'd like to look at storing it in rdf, really
17:56:36 <hazmat> z3 is a while away. http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/ZopeComponentArchitecture/PythonProgrammerTutorial/Chapter1/Step2/
17:56:54 <hazmat> i'm reading through the z3 tutorial at the moment.
17:57:00 <AaronSw-UK> i tend to play zope-hater to keep tav on his toes
17:57:45 <hazmat> do you know if any work is still being done on redfoot by chance?
17:58:12 <AaronSw-UK> not really
17:58:15 <GabeW> really? 
17:58:28 <GabeW> I haven't heard anyting on the redfoot-announce list
17:59:21 <hazmat> there hasn't been any activity on it in months, to the point of ignoring mailing list questions from the authors.
17:59:54 <GabeW> they are on iRC from time to time, no?
17:59:58 <AaronSw-UK> yep
18:00:02 <GabeW> eikeon
18:00:09 <AaronSw-UK> jtauber
18:00:20 <hazmat> but its still listed as a topic for IPC10
18:00:28 <AaronSw-UK> i mean, i'm sure they're still hacking on it but i think once they hit 1.0 they slowed down
18:00:36 <GabeW> its pretty useful at 1.0
18:00:45 <hazmat> true
18:00:55 <GabeW> in terms of absence of showstopper bugs, etc
18:00:59 <hazmat> how does redfoot compare to plex?
18:01:17 <hazmat> purely from an rdf store and inference POV.
18:01:28 <AaronSw-UK> plexrdf is much less developed
18:06:39 <lilo> Hi all.  Two channels, #!/bin/sh and #secrets, have recently become infested with Windows clonebots.  We've had to jupe (temporarily shut down) those channels off and on, and automatically kline clients as they joined.  Please don't try to join either channel, and if you see someone telling another user to join one of the channels, please let them know not to do it (and send us the /whois info for the person sending them there).  Thanks!
18:10:12 <GabeW> redfoot is just a storage and query tool, iirc
18:12:16 <hazmat> and a webserver, although it should be binding the socket with the reuse option.
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18:12:41 <AaronSw-UK> heh, that's quite annoyinh.
18:14:14 <hazmat> hmm.. it is setting the resuse option. wierd
18:14:35 <AaronSw-UK> i don't think it closes it cleanly or something
18:15:18 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK left his power adapter at home, and the other one we brought has just broken. argh
18:16:25 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK wonders whether to become an honorary #britizen
18:18:08 <sbp> * sbp opens up the archives for geo-ident
18:18:21 <GabeW> geo-ident? 
18:18:27 <sbp> Yeah
18:18:33 <GabeW> is that your geo urn scheme? 
18:18:34 <sbp> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geo-ident/
18:18:37 <AaronSw-UK> @yahoogroups.com
18:18:53 <sbp> It's a group to discuss things like that
18:19:03 <sbp> There are only 3 esteemed members at the moment, though
18:19:47 <GabeW> there were some pretty wacky discussions baout the details of geolocation in the ietf (I think) general disc. list (or was it somewhre else?)
18:19:53 <GabeW> in response to your proposal, sbp
18:20:17 <sbp> It was on urn-nid, and yes, they were pretty wacky
18:20:34 <sbp> I have a feeling that it may have been a case of people having applications, and wanting to twist the scheme
18:21:09 <sbp> I just wanted to use a really simple scheme, such as HH-MM-SS[.f*]
18:21:23 <AaronSw-UK> hey, sbp - when should we come over?
18:21:29 <sbp> er... rather DD-HH etc.
18:21:29 <GabeW> its all about how you present it, I think
18:21:32 <sbp> yeah
18:21:41 <sbp> come over: when do you want to come over?
18:21:59 <AaronSw-UK> i dunno - why do you think i'm asking you?
18:22:32 <sbp> I'm not sure; why are you asking me?
18:22:45 <sbp> heh. Well, any day will be fine, but let me check
18:23:28 <AaronSw-UK> I worried that you might have gone to France or something, but I figured that wasn't very likely.
18:24:17 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh
18:24:23 <sbp> Sunday?
18:25:13 <AaronSw-UK> well, someday next week
18:25:17 <sbp> [Gabe: feel free to join geo-ident]
18:25:23 <AaronSw-UK> any time in particular?
18:25:35 <sbp> Er... yes, after 12PM
18:26:10 <sbp> Well, I'm not sure what we're doing New Year's Day, but any day after that is fine
18:26:29 <AaronSw-UK> after 12PM, eh? not a morning person?
18:26:43 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK woke up at 5:30 this morning and hacked on blogspace
18:27:00 <sbp> nope. Well, Sunday would be best... but Sunday/Monday/Tuesday
18:27:33 <sbp> Tuesday may be difficult to travel, unless you have a car? How are you planning on getting down here?
18:27:53 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK tries to figure out what day it is
18:28:34 <AaronSw-UK> what about wednesday/thursday?
18:30:05 <AaronSw-UK> we'll probably take a train or something
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18:33:18 <sbp> Wed/Thu is less convenient
18:41:08 <sbp> Hello?
18:46:39 <AaronSw-UK> hi
18:46:54 <AaronSw-UK> ok, well i'll try to figure something out
18:46:57 <AaronSw-UK> gotta run to dinner
18:47:05 <AaronSw-UK> (well, ykwim)
18:47:13 <AaronSw-UK> AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner")
20:33:31 <tav`> hmz
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22:00:19 <AaronSw-UK> AaronSw-UK (Snak@AC9A279C.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
22:00:32 <AaronSw-UK> .xena help
22:00:43 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK eats is
22:00:45 <AaronSw-UK> *BURP*
22:00:54 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK eats is
22:00:56 <AaronSw-UK> *BURP*
22:01:08 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK is BenSw
22:01:15 <AaronSw-UK> .help
22:01:15 <xena> usage: help <command>
22:01:16 <xena> - provides specific usage help for command
22:01:17 <xena> - for a list of valid commands, use commands in a channel or private message
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23:34:32 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK gets back online after fighting outrageous ISP charges
23:42:06 <hazmat> go aaron, fight the power!
23:42:25 <hazmat> be careful those brits are tricky.
23:43:28 <AaronSw-UK> heh
23:44:04 <AaronSw-UK> * AaronSw-UK checks out the Klip stuff at http://www.serence.com/
23:44:13 <AaronSw-UK> Hmm, no windows machine here.
23:54:48 <AaronSw-UK> Hmm, ComponentArchitecture seems reasonable, even obvious.
23:55:06 <hazmat> much seems obvious in retrospect.
23:55:50 <AaronSw-UK> Indeed.
23:56:25 <hazmat> hows england treating ya?
23:57:51 <AaronSw-UK> Pretty good, thanks.
23:58:12 <AaronSw-UK> .time cst
23:58:13 <xena> Dec. 27, 2001 5:59 pm US/Central