00:01:07 http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6674 00:13:01 * AaronSw goes to dinner 00:17:54 @ http://ecs.soton.ac.uk/~sdh300/stuffage/bf.net/ 00:17:56 whoo! 00:17:58 i got something done. 00:18:00 i rock./ 00:18:02 A: http://ecs.soton.ac.uk/~sdh300/stuffage/bf.net/ from sbp 00:18:34 A:|BrainFuck.Net 00:18:35 titled item A 00:18:44 A::Q: "Does BrainFuck.Net use the controversial Microsoft Passport system for authentication?" 00:18:45 commented item A 00:18:58 A::A: "No. The Brainfuck language has only 8 commands, and none of them are related to authenticating remote network users." 00:18:59 commented item A 00:24:11 A::I await a [http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/befunge/|Befunge] port... 00:24:13 commented item A 00:27:09 Morbus has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 00:40:28 [[[ 00:40:30 ³Hell is also Network Solutions.² I¹ve been trying to deal with some DNS issues for months. I¹ve even faxed them. On their side nothing budges. 00:40:31 I will now call them names. They¹re poopy-heads. They¹re dumb-asses. They¹re as stupid as Einstein was smart. 00:40:33 Network Solutions compares unfavorably to other modern ills, including the Greenhouse Effect, war, religious fundamentalism, illiteracy, racism, political correctness, Microsoft, and John Ashcroft. 00:40:52 ]]] - http://inessential.com/2001/12/17.html 00:41:31 GabeW (~gwachob@12-236-92-153.client.attbi.com) has joined #swhack 00:45:14 wow 00:48:17 from the same page:- 00:48:18 [[[ 00:48:18 I’m freaking out. The sky is this novel color—somewhere between green and purple, I don’t know its name—and the gray creatures who live up there have disappeared. 00:48:18 What’s more—this is the unbelievable part—there’s this orb, a big, angry yellow eye, which appears to be the source of all this exaggerated shininess everywhere. I stared at it for a while but it hurt my eyes. It’s definitely not friendly. 00:48:19 What’ll I do? What can I do? 00:48:21 ]]] 00:55:01 * kmacleod goes home 00:55:03 kmacleod has quit ("Leaving") 00:59:31 * GabeW is home 01:02:40 Does anyone know if somebody's running a less-annoying, more automated version of the Spam Cop software? 01:05:33 like a client side spamcop 01:09:21 Wow: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,49091,00.html 01:16:27 @ http://www.farces.com/stories/storyReader$230 01:16:30 B: ARTS & FARCES internet : Is spam killing email? from AaronSw 01:18:11 B::Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like concerns about spam are spiling recently. There's this article, plus comments from [Dave|http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2001/12/15#lb06bd5ce752a185768079778e3cd2000], [Wes|http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$6651], [Cam|http://camworld.com/journal/2001/12/#16], etc. 01:18:13 commented item B 01:18:41 B::I'm hopeful that technologies like the Plex will help with these problems. In the Plex, you'll likely only accept email from folks whoare 01:18:42 commented item B 01:19:05 B::part of your trust network. Even then, if it's a mass mailing it'll be correlated with others opinions of its importance. 01:19:07 commented item B 01:20:17 B::Personally, I've redirected all messages from emailing lists to a folder which I really never read anymore. Spam was never much a problem with me, I deleted it all quickly, but it does seem to be getting worse. I report all spams to [Vipul's Razor|http://razor.sourceforge.net/] with an Entourage Plug-in I wrote. 01:20:18 commented item B 01:27:20 B::I've also had my email blocked by HP recently, due to some vicious filters there. They didn't like the fact that my account name was only two characters long ('me'). Sheesh. 01:27:21 commented item B 01:27:31 B::Of course they quickly fixed it. 01:27:32 commented item B 01:32:24 * AaronSw tries to plan out his server configurations. 01:32:44 If anyone wants to send me a nice high-performance server, or configure my boxen to be one, let me know. 01:34:24 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m37-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 01:34:33 Can anyone recommend cheap, high-quality server hardware? deltab? 01:34:37 sbp (~sean@m37-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:34:51 GabeW? 01:35:10 nope 01:35:42 Would it make sense to buy one of the cheap $500 PCs or something? 01:49:11 hhuh? 01:49:30 sorry - wandered off 01:49:40 I've used emachines - but beware that they are shit ;-) 01:49:58 power supplies die and hard drives too 01:50:04 Ouch. 01:50:11 I used to like VA linux boxes - slight premium there 01:50:15 I was thinking Powerspec. I've used them before and they're pretty reliable. 01:50:25 Yeah, but I don't think there are many VAs left. 01:50:33 i assume we're talking about intel/linux servers here 01:50:35 I'm looking for something I can throw in the server room and forget. 01:50:38 Yeah. 01:51:03 i've had success (second hand recommendation too) from a guy who builds machines up in San Fran... 01:51:20 you looking for a serious server? or just a "regular" machine to act as a server? 01:51:31 More of a regular machine I guess. 01:51:32 I mean -- dya want rack mounted, raid, dual power supply, etc? 01:51:39 oh - thats easier then 01:51:48 I want a box that'll reliably handle my email and small websites. 01:51:56 hmm 01:52:05 but all the boxes I've gotten to do that fail mysteriously every two weeks. 01:52:28 sometimes building your own out of relatively good components can be your best bet for cheapness and somewhat good reliability 01:53:38 I dunno, maybe I have bad luck at that or something... 01:53:47 you have to get the right components, thats for sure. 01:53:51 hmm 01:54:27 Like my server's been up 11 days, while the server set up by friends has been up 195 days. 01:54:47 why do these machines go down? hardware or software problems? 01:55:04 a little of both. 01:55:11 mostly it runs out of memory, it seems 01:55:14 hmm 01:55:15 even though I keep buying it more RAM. 01:55:20 how much ram? 01:55:30 i think they have like 512MB now. 01:55:33 these days, I wouldn't run with less than 512Mb 01:55:43 Hmm. 01:55:46 ram is getting *very* cheap - but don't buy ram that is too cheap 01:55:50 yeah. 01:56:07 the trick is to get 1) good mobo 2) good fan/case 3) good ram and 4) good hd 01:56:26 hmm 01:56:50 cooling helps a lot -- also UPS can aid in uptime obviously - some brownouts you may not even notice can reset (or shutdown) machiens. 01:57:17 http://www.tomshardware.com if you wanna do it yourself 01:57:23 its a must read 01:57:28 yeah, i notice that my x86s go down with brownouts but not the Macs 01:58:05 its all about the quality of the power supply I would imagine and the amount of power the machine draws 01:58:18 Yeah. 01:58:44 So, these days, I wouldn't bother with SCSI unless you really think you need a really fast drive for stuff like database 01:58:50 just get a fast ide drive 01:58:59 much better performance/$ 01:59:29 yep 01:59:42 In some ways, servers can be relatively boring machines compared to the latest and greatest desktop machines 02:00:16 I look at machines like: powerspec.com/systems/system_specs.phtml?selection=5780 and think a) will that work for me and b) can i get it for cheaper without sound, graphics and windows 02:00:21 depends on what you are doing, but unless you have pretty extreme scaling requirements, or intense processing behind your sites, you can get a pretty lame machine 02:00:37 and it won't be noticeably slower as viewed across the network 02:01:38 the celerons made good mail/simple web servers usually 02:02:11 The drive seems a tad bit small - but the price is awfully good 02:02:32 actually, i think you can put this system together by yourself for a little less... but not a whole lot 02:02:48 Yeah, i'm not sure it's worth the money. 02:02:52 .acronym .acronym btco 02:02:53 .acronym: A Clever Re-Organisation Nudges Your Memory :-), A Completely Random Order Never Yields Meaning :-), A Concise Recollection of Nomenclature Yielding Mnemonics :-), A Concise Reduction Obliquely Naming Your Meaning:-), A Contrived Reduction Of Nomenclature Yielding Mnemonics :-), A Crazy Reminder Of Names You Misplaced :-), A Cross Reference Of Notes Yielding Messages :-), A Cryptic 02:02:53 .acronym btco 02:02:54 Reminder Of Names You Meet :-), Abbreviated Code Rarely Or Never Yielding Meaning :-), Abbreviated Coded Rendition Of Name Yielding Meaning :-), Abbreviation By Cropping Names That Yield Meaning :-), Academy's Choice Reading, One Newspaper for You and Me (Newspaper of IMSA), Alphabetic Collocation Reducing Or Numbing Your Memory :-), Alphabetically Coded Reminder of Names You Misremember :-), 02:02:54 The thing is that cheap desktops don't always make good "always on" servers 02:02:55 .. a very large amount of text. 02:02:55 btco: Boston Terminal Company 02:03:15 you should hop over to #linux-help and ask there 02:04:04 also, let me ask a guy i know woh might have a better idea 02:05:14 The thing is that cheap desktops don't always make good "always on" servers 02:05:15 yeah, that's what I'm worried about. 02:05:15 I'm always wary of linux-help channels... 02:05:41 cool 02:06:03 i got spoiled for a while working at a company that had enough money to but real servers from VA 02:06:28 there are some features that make "real servers" nice (rack mounting, easy access to hardware inside, good venting, etc) 02:06:37 Mmmm. 02:06:49 have you checked on the various linux sites like linux.com or lwn.net (I don't keep up) 02:06:55 A little. 02:07:04 Yeah, it makes me wonder whether servers have some magical quality that make them reliable or if I'm just incapable at configuring them properly. 02:07:06 is this going to be "remotely" installed or is it going to sit in a basement or somesuch? 02:07:19 well, servers are built from higher quality (and more expensive) components usually 02:07:29 It's going into a server room with a ds3 or some such that's a short drive from here. 02:07:40 often better drives and almost always better power supplies 02:07:45 better cooling too 02:08:13 and the mobos tend to be better focused on being a server (ie no sound, often no USB, etc) 02:08:41 I'm really sick of "Oops, the server's down again -- better get it up before mail starts bouncing" and "argh, why did sshd crash _this_ time." 02:08:51 is it properly ventilated there? humidity and heat can really kill hardware 02:09:01 Yeah, it's a real server room, so it should be ok... 02:09:04 otoh, an improperly setup linux box can be very difficult to keep up ;-) 02:09:23 improperly set up software-wise? 02:09:25 I've had good luck with Redhat default installs (with basic reconfiuration for security purposes) 02:09:36 Hmm, that's basically what I've been using. 02:09:50 Although I was thinking of going with Debian for my next machine. 02:09:51 its relatively easy to make a linux box useless through out of control cron jobs, etc 02:10:17 Heh, yeah. That was true about one machine I was using... it had tripwire running every hour for a while. 02:10:17 i've also had problems with cheap hard drives and linux 02:10:23 heh 02:10:40 for some reason, linux can run harddrives a lot harder than 'doze 02:11:52 * GabeW thinks about all the time he's spent diagnosing dead or dying linux boxes 02:12:20 I'd say 75% of the time, its been a hardware problem 02:12:41 Interesting. 02:14:05 yeah, and 24% of the time, its some app trying to allocate 500 gig of ram 02:14:34 and 1% of the time its some kernel or misconfiguration issue 02:14:41 Hmm. 02:15:10 oh and one time I think it was some DoS or r00t-0wn3D thing 02:15:20 heh 02:17:23 folks in #linuxhelp say: "dream on :) it isnt realistic" 02:17:38 what isn't realistic? 02:17:59 finding a cheap, reliable machine 02:18:06 yeah, its a crapshoot 02:18:31 thats why I'm saying dyi might be best 02:18:39 the thing is that not everything needs to be new 02:18:53 Yeah, i've not had the best DIY experiences in the past... 02:18:57 you can use an older case (new power supply though), perhaps even an old mobo and cpu 02:19:16 Hmm, he's recommending a sunblade which looks cool except it runs solaris. 02:19:40 the other option (and this is the one that makes me all excited) is to build a pair of cheap redudant (or failover) machines 02:20:07 then you can even use shitty hardware 02:20:07 That's sort of cool, but sounds tricky. 02:20:17 well, it depends on how much you want to do 02:20:41 if you are worried about mail receipt - you can setup one as a backup smtp receiving server 02:20:53 web serving is a little harder 02:21:02 Yeah, mail receipt is easy. 02:21:10 depends on how long a downtime you are willing to accept 02:21:30 i'm just sick of going and debugging machines in my spare time. 02:21:32 you can "rsync" content over to a backup server on a regular basis and then if the primary goes down, you can manually switch over to the backup really easy 02:21:48 or you can do something more fancy and have the backup come up automatically 02:21:58 but the manual failover stuff is *really* easy 02:22:30 what do I do, just change the DNS? 02:22:32 but you do point a truism out - it actually does take effort to keep systems up and running reliabily 02:22:48 you could change the dns or change the ip of the backup machine or .. or .. 02:22:52 yeah, maybe i should just hire a sysadmin :) 02:23:07 thats why most people don't run their own servers 02:23:26 what sort of sites are you running there? 02:23:52 I was thinking this machine would just run low-traffic simple sites like my homepage, the weblog and stuff. 02:26:02 wow, IBM has a server for $650 02:26:04 and you are getting free hosting? 02:26:07 yep 02:26:12 thats nice 02:26:35 which? the hosting or the server? 02:26:39 if I was in yer position (you aren't me and vice versa) i'd do the two-cheap servers 02:26:43 the free hosting 02:26:48 yeah, it really is 02:27:19 I keep on meaning to get a couple server colocated and paid for by my business and then dedicating one to hosting for people I know 02:27:32 but we're not there yet 02:27:35 that'd be cool 02:28:01 I mean, the incremental cost of a new server would be very little and assuming they don't abuse it, it costs me very little 02:28:28 pair.com will host static sites for very little - something like $10 a month - i use them 02:28:45 ooh, neat. I know a lot of people use them, but i had no idea it was that cheap 02:28:50 blazingfast.net too :-) 02:28:50 yeah 02:28:54 its scary cheap 02:29:05 i have about 5 people who I've gotten to sign up with them 02:29:10 my business too! 02:30:20 they have an ftp-access-only account that you can attach a domain (or more) to, and I have my mom using it to get mail for her domain 02:30:35 its like $8.95 a month or something -- she doesn't have a web site but she could as well 02:34:34 maybe wmf can even get me a discount on this IBM server... 02:35:58 hehe 02:36:08 hey, put a project on it and maybe it can be donated 02:36:51 put webns.net on it and try to get a donation from someone 02:37:10 heh heh 02:37:40 maybe i can make spin it as a donation to our nation's schools 02:37:41 is anyone else going to use this server or is this all for personal stuff? 02:38:12 well, it'll probably host email and websites for the rest of the family, but mainly it's just me and my projects 02:38:32 where are they hosted these days? 02:39:13 i have two small really old servers on a dsl line hosting theinfo.org and swartzfam.com respectively 02:39:34 then i have a server with the kind folks at museatech which hosts pretty much everything else. 02:39:52 I also have some stuff with the kind folks at blazingfast.net. 02:40:26 * deltab bows 02:40:30 man - you have lots of kind folks around you 02:40:43 heh 02:40:53 i wanna run an isp and a hosting company that Does Things Right 02:40:56 It's always worthwhile being nice to people. 02:41:26 I used to have my own server with the once-kind folks at ArsDigita, but then they became mean evil people and turned it off without telling me. 02:41:55 I called up the hosting company and I was like, hey, why's my server down. and they were like, oh, they told us to turn it off. 02:42:00 I don't entirely trust the magnanamity of people, especially with this economic climate 02:42:18 Yeah, same here... 02:42:26 which is one of the reasons I want a server of my very own. 02:42:30 yup 02:42:58 thats why its nice to be able to pay for things, even if its only a few bucks a month - gives the other party a sense of responsibility 02:43:33 exactly 02:44:09 blazingfast.net would be happy to take AaronSw's money :-) 02:44:30 just because i agree doesn't mean i'm going to do it. :-) 02:45:03 ok, dell's site sucks: i find the machine i want, i click "ready to buy" and it dumps me at the front page of their store web site 02:57:42 anyway, AaronSw - if you can afford a Dell I really have had excellent history with their hardware both as servers and desktops 02:58:04 I can't figure out to buy anything on their site! 02:58:13 hehehe 02:58:17 hmm - didn't used to be that hard 02:58:27 i find the machine i want, i click "ready to buy" and it dumps me at the front page of their store web site 02:58:33 which has no links to servers 02:59:15 http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/model_pedge_pedge_500sc.htm 02:59:17 dude 02:59:35 from $499 02:59:39 whoa, cool 03:00:06 needs more ram and bigger hd - I'd get those from Dell 03:01:09 599 with what you need 03:01:16 damn, thats cheap 03:01:33 its a "server" machine which means you *should* be getting good reliability 03:01:52 Where's this $599 machine? 03:02:06 can I email you a shopping cart? 03:02:20 ah, here it is 03:02:26 /msg me your email addr 03:03:21 ok 03:04:28 OK, I have one item in my shopping cart. I click detailed view and i have no items in my active cart. 03:04:38 its another $100 for a 1ghz p3 instead of a 900 mhz celeron 03:04:50 yeah, move it to your active cart and then you can edit it 03:04:53 aha 03:05:05 wierd ui 03:05:22 when they say on-site labor, will they actually come find my server and fix it? 03:05:39 yeah 03:05:56 they actually came out to my apartment way out in the extreme burbs to replace a power supply 03:06:03 Aaron's email address is, and always will be, DONTSPAMME@NOSPAM.COM 03:06:09 wow, that's pretty incredible. 03:06:11 you konw they are talking about this topic in infoanarchy 03:06:25 cheap linux boxen 03:06:35 i see 03:06:41 i think i started that thread... 03:06:53 ahh 03:08:04 loki is talking about building a machine that will have your reliability problems I think 03:08:43 that will be unreliable, you mean? 03:08:55 yeah - but then again, I haven't priced this stuff recently 03:09:44 hmm, why are there two identical looking 1GB RAM options, one of which costs $102 and the other costs $794 03:09:46 bbiab 03:11:29 one was probably posted ten minutes before the other 03:12:33 cuz they mean 2x512Mb not 4x256 I'm sure 03:12:37 thats not worth it 03:12:59 its got 4 slots and the option I have selected for you fills them all with 128Mb simms 03:13:07 dimms rather 03:13:39 * sbp runs CWM, goes to get food 03:13:51 they're giving you 4 128Mb dimms as a cheapest option and thats fine for a while - when the bigger dimms come down in price you can always mix and match I think 03:14:25 * sbp returns, CWM still running... 03:16:12 heh, then it doesn't work, so you change something, and start it off again... 03:16:19 they both claim to be 4x256MB dimms 03:16:27 sbp, sounds like punched cards all over again 03:16:41 heh, heh 03:17:19 well this server looks really good. 03:17:50 many thanks for your help, GabeW 03:17:53 sure 03:18:19 i suspect we will meet again when it comes time to configure it 03:18:34 so, one thing most people don't hink about is firewalling 03:18:46 i don't think about firewalling 03:18:54 I'd never put up a server without firewalling - preferably in a separate box 03:19:03 really? 03:19:04 at least use linux firewalling ... 03:19:15 yeah, you are asking for trouble if you don't 03:19:25 Its actually not that hard 03:19:25 of what sort? 03:19:38 well, are you familiar with firewalling in general? 03:19:52 i believe so, unless the term's meaning has changed 03:19:58 hehe 03:20:21 the only problem's i've had was that one machine was infected with Ramen because I forgot to turn off the stupid redhat default services 03:20:22 Well, the mechanism for doing firewalling in linux keeps on changing - ip-fw ipchains ip-filter, etc 03:20:50 yeah, turning off services is always the best thing to do - its a 80/20 solution - 80% of the benefit with 20% of the work 03:21:09 there are some good faq's on firewalling (HOWTOs I believe) 03:21:26 also, I think redhat actually has a configurator for firewalling (I forget - maybe its suse I'mt hinking of) 03:22:45 i was sort of thinking of installing debian on it. is that a stupid move for someone like me? 03:24:26 http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Security-Quickstart-Redhat-HOWTO/index.html 03:24:52 um, I'm not a debian head 03:24:59 and I kinda like the familiarity of redhat 03:25:06 its sort of a personal preference 03:25:07 yeah, but most people I know are debian heads, it seems... ;) 03:25:22 i certainly have enjoyed using the debian package manager on my Mac 03:25:39 well, debian is probably fine 03:26:04 i like the fact that redhat is very widely used and questions are easy to get answered 03:26:09 How can you go wrong with an OS that names its releases after Toy Story characters? 03:26:28 in that case http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Security-Quickstart-HOWTO/index.html 03:26:45 Heh. 03:26:56 Was that because Bruce Perens worked at Pixar? 03:27:07 Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. 03:27:24 I think thats probably the connection ;-) 03:27:36 we'll have to see when that name theme started 03:27:55 I haven't spoken to bruce since he went big time and started at HP 03:28:27 Do you know what happened to technocrat.net? 03:29:11 yeah 03:29:13 he shut it down 03:29:16 i was an editor 03:29:25 it was kind of dying on the vine 03:29:29 yeah, i know -- but why'd the archives disappear? 03:29:31 he got involved in linuxvc also 03:29:33 I donno 03:29:51 the machine is still there I think - I bet you I still have r00t ;-) 03:30:30 Heh. 03:30:56 actually maybe its a different setup now - donno, don't really wanna know 03:31:00 gabew@technocrat$ r00t m3 pl3aze 03:31:24 he was running it off the dsl into his house in Berkelely 03:31:29 Berkeley 03:31:39 Heh. 03:32:23 I met him when I asked him to come speak at a class at the law school at Berkeley (Boalt) - that was after I graduated 03:32:45 * GabeW likes the punk channel on launch.yahoo.com 03:34:09 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m773-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 03:34:21 sbp (~sean@m773-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:36:16 aaargh, these big queries are just so slow 03:36:55 sbp needs a faster machine 03:37:07 can you make cwm multithreaded? 03:37:28 I'm on an 800MHz machine as it is 03:38:16 multithread CWM: heh, heh, heh 03:38:17 there are 2 ghz machines out now ;-) 03:38:32 well, once you multithread, the next challenge is to partitoin and distribute 03:38:36 I'll take that as an offer for you to buy me one. Many thanks 03:39:44 * sbp runs yet more stuff through CWM 03:40:21 the problem is that I keep running a 135KB database through it. Perhaps I should just filter out the bits that I need 03:40:43 Perhaps CWM should be built atop a real database framework. 03:41:00 Perhaps you're right 03:41:10 cwm is a inference engine, right? 03:41:24 ah, neat, it's kinda worked... 03:41:41 it's given totally the wrong result 03:41:51 but at least it's given a result this time 03:41:53 yes, it is 03:41:55 hey, "Distributed Thought" - neat name for a distributed cwm 03:42:06 DT? nah... 03:42:08 :-) 03:42:15 cwm can't be the first inference engine to run into scaling issues 03:42:23 have you tried running cwm in jpython? 03:44:05 nope 03:44:07 wouldn't that make it slower? 03:44:09 * AaronSw ducks 03:44:12 heh, probably 03:44:54 i wouldn't be so sure 03:45:11 no need to duck, Aaron. Say it loud and say it proud 03:45:12 it'd be interesting to see it work in a jit enabled jpython encironment 03:46:21 oh wow, CWM just totally screwed something up 03:47:02 oh, no, I just worked out what happened... odd 03:49:29 * GabeW is watching http://launch.yahoo.com/musicvideos/player/default.asp?videoID=1077293 03:50:13 groovy anime video 03:50:17 sorta 03:54:29 damn, are all the daft punk videos alike? 03:54:31 [[[ 03:54:31 "1311.43291953" :distanceBetween [ 03:54:32 :townA "MIA"; 03:54:32 :townB "BOS" ] . 03:54:33 ]]] 03:54:36 is there some ongoing theme? 03:54:51 swhack is nonsequitur-central 03:54:53 according to http://usembassymalaysia.org.my/distance.html it's 1500 miles; that's pretty close 03:55:08 * sbp declares victory; hooray! 03:55:17 What's MIA? 03:55:22 miami 03:55:41 missing in action 03:55:47 Heh. 03:55:50 a girl's name 04:01:49 Miama 04:01:53 er... 04:01:54 Miami 04:02:00 night all 04:02:03 c'ya 04:02:06 well, I'm going to get dinner at least 04:02:21 GabeW has quit ("Client Exiting") 04:05:24 ta da: http://infomesh.net/2001/12/map/ 04:11:39