IRC log of swhack on 2001-12-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:09 [sbp]

That is what is referred to in the business as "apostrophe creep"

00:00:49 [AaronSw]

Great, now he's got a whole business in creepy unneeded apostrophes!

00:01:10 [sbp]

What're you callin' creepy'?

00:01:43 [sbp]

Apostrophies Are Us

00:01:56 [sbp]

or, if you want to be cute... (read: freakish)

00:02:02 [sbp]

Apostrophies-R-Us

00:02:16 [sbp]

.google "Apostrophies Are Us"

00:02:17 [xena]

no results found.

00:02:26 [sbp]

.google Apostrophies-R-Us

00:02:27 [xena]

no results found.

00:02:35 [AaronSw]

Any intelligent person would spell it Apostrophies 'R Us.

00:02:49 [sbp]

Any intelligent person would spell it Apostrophies 'R' Us

00:03:16 [AaronSw]

I don't think so!

00:03:16 [sbp]

or, perhaps... "Apostrophies 'r' Us"

00:03:24 [sbp]

I do

00:03:38 [AaronSw]

clearly you're unintelligent

00:03:39 [u9030q3rq]

u9030q3rq has quit ("CGI:IRC 0.4.1 [EOF]")

00:04:06 [sbp]

By what oddball logic did you come to that dumb conclusion?

00:04:22 [AaronSw]

a -> b => c |- d.

00:04:24 [AaronSw]

QED

00:05:36 [sbp]

O.K., so is |- implication or entailment, if you're so smart?

00:06:25 [AaronSw]

I don't have to explain my syntax!

00:06:56 [sbp]

Aha! The truth is out

00:07:42 [sbp]

* sbp bows, and pulls the curtains, comes out for an encore, receives flowers, goes backstage, and then goes to the after-play party

00:09:23 [sbp]

(|- is implication, BTW)

00:09:45 [AaronSw]

(Obviously, but not in my syntax.)

00:11:34 [sbp]

Confused Graffiti: "Heteros, go straight!"

00:11:44 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

00:16:13 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20011206.html

00:16:19 [chumpster]

A: I, Cringely | The Pulpit from AaronSw

00:16:30 [AaronSw]

A:|Bob Cringely on the Microsoft Settlement

00:16:31 [chumpster]

titled item A

00:16:44 [AaronSw]

A::Includes a DIY email to the DOJ.

00:16:44 [chumpster]

commented item A

00:21:18 [AaronSw]

A::Gates for his part says: "We will focus more on how our actions affect other companie. We resolve ourselves to becoming an even better industry leader."

00:21:19 [chumpster]

commented item A

00:21:39 [AaronSw]

A::Is it just me or does that sound like "We'll try even harder to be ruthless monopolists."?

00:21:40 [chumpster]

commented item A

00:22:11 [sbp]

Ambiguous language, I agree

00:38:30 [sbp]

Homer: "Ooh, funky"

00:42:47 [sbp]

Homer: "Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky"

00:46:43 [AaronSw]

dinnertime, c'ya

00:48:33 [sbp]

c'ya

00:49:29 [sbp]

heh: """Wow! APPLE linked to my flipping O'REILLY ARTICLE ON APACHE AND OS X - that's just insanely great! The response has been resoundingly good...""" - http://disobey.com/

01:03:45 [sbp]

[[[

01:03:46 [sbp]

Mistake #10: Schools believe students have a basic interest in learning whatever it is schools decide to teach to them.

01:03:46 [sbp]

What kid would choose learning mathematics over learning about animals, trucks, sports, or whatever? Is there one? Good. Then, teach him mathematics. Leave the other children alone.

01:03:51 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.ils.nwu.edu/e-for-e/nodes/NODE-283-pg.html

01:05:19 [tansaku]

I was just looking for your O'REILLY ARTICLE ON APACHE AND OS X, but couldn't find it - you have a link?

01:05:50 [sbp]

yeah, sure, it's here: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2001/12/07/apache.html

01:05:59 [tansaku]

thanks

01:06:01 [sbp]

Quite good, isn't it? I did rather well on that

01:06:15 [sbp]

Heh, heh. It wasn't mine :-) It was by Morbus

01:06:16 [tansaku]

so your name is also Kevin?

01:06:23 [Morbus]

Morbus (~Morbus@s86.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

01:06:29 [sbp]

Speak of the devil!

01:07:21 [Morbus]

uh oh.

01:07:23 [Morbus]

logster, where am i?

01:07:24 [Morbus]

See http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-11#T01-07-23

01:07:25 [Morbus]

hmf.

01:07:29 [sbp]

We were just discussing your kick-ass article

01:07:51 [Morbus]

uh huh. sure.

01:08:13 [sbp]

The one linked to by... Apple!

01:08:25 [Morbus]

oh yeah, i guess you were <g>

01:08:27 [Morbus]

heh, hhe.

01:08:39 [Morbus]

you like it, tansaku?

01:09:09 [sbp]

"Art is not a brassiere." - I guess this is a refactoring of "A bra should never win the Turner Prize"?

01:09:31 [Morbus]

never heard of that.

01:10:01 [sbp]

I just made it up. Good wuzzunt it?

01:11:00 [Morbus]

a teensy weensy bit ;)

01:19:48 [AaronSw]

Heh.

01:20:01 [AaronSw]

American High is really creepy, especially since it was filmed write by my house.

01:21:03 [AaronSw]

It's like: that's the school I could have gone to. *shivers*

01:22:37 [sbp]

* sbp decides he should probably watch that

01:22:49 [AaronSw]

Do they have it on in the UK?

01:23:58 [sbp]

Dunno

01:25:49 [sbp]

"""In true superstar style, she upstaged him, giving Channel 4, who were broadcasting the ceremony live, kittens by declaring, "I want to support any artist who not only has something to say but the balls to say it... At a time when political correctness is valued over honesty I would also like to say right on motherfuckers!"""" - http://www.guardian.co.uk/turnerprize2001/story/0,7369,616274,00.html

01:26:15 [AaronSw]

What's "Giving them kittens" mean?

01:26:59 [sbp]

making them crap themselves

01:27:20 [sbp]

lol: "Creed now lives on the remote Mediterranean island of Alicudi, the furthest of the volcanic Aeolian archipelago from the Sicilian mainland, [...] It is not thought that the island's haphazard electricity supply was an inspiration for his prize-winning piece." - ibid.

01:30:14 [sbp]

The Turner Prize is always quite fun

01:30:29 [AaronSw]

Heh.

01:30:33 [AaronSw]

http://www.pbs.org/americanhigh/

01:31:27 [sbp]

hey, looks pretty darn cruddy

01:31:41 [sbp]

* sbp is a harsh but fair critic

01:31:47 [AaronSw]

What does?

01:31:52 [sbp]

AmHigh

01:32:14 [sbp]

Hmm... that abbreviation has to make you wonder

01:32:21 [AaronSw]

Heh heh

01:42:33 [SeanP]

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01:43:03 [SeanP]

Thought I'd try this again; seemingly to no avail

01:43:15 [sbp]

Sean, it doesn't work. Deal with it

01:43:28 [SeanP]

Make me

01:43:29 [AaronSw]

Odd.

01:43:40 [AaronSw]

I guess you need a browser that supports content-replacement.

01:43:46 [sbp]

It just won't display text in the window

01:44:03 [SeanP]

Hmph

01:44:18 [AaronSw]

Yeah, you need a browser that supports content-replacement.

01:44:22 [AaronSw]

What browser are you using?

01:44:29 [sbp]

IE6!

01:44:34 [AaronSw]

I had it working on like IE4 or something.

01:44:48 [AaronSw]

It was on Windows, but it was pretty old.

01:44:57 [AaronSw]

You might also try http://impressive.net/people/gerald/2000/11/irc/cgi-irc/irc.cgi

01:44:59 [sbp]

It's not like it's some old wankified thing. It's the latest pile of doggy bag biscuits

01:46:22 [sbp]

I've decided: I'm fashionably lazy. It's fashionable to be lazy

01:46:27 [AaronSw]

Suuure.

01:46:34 [SeanP]

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01:47:36 [sbp]

Why Perl? What's the point? Who woke up and thought, "ooh, I know; I'll invent Perl". It was Larry Wall. Why did he do it? So many questions

01:47:47 [Morbus]

hey!

01:48:13 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

01:48:21 [sbp]

:-)

01:48:26 [AaronSw]

Remember, Perl was around before Python, so you can't give them all the blame.

01:49:33 [AaronSw]

Hmm, this is a pretty theme: http://theme35.weblogger.com/

01:50:11 [Morbus]

hundreds? we're talking thousands.

01:54:05 [sbp]

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01:56:23 [sbp]

clearly, someone should paste the DeCSS code into #swhack

01:56:44 [AaronSw]

Oh, we haven't already?

01:56:51 [sbp]

Nope

01:57:08 [sbp]

And for that, we suck

01:57:18 [AaronSw]

Well, we wrote some of it in.

01:57:31 [sbp]

but not all of it. I still stand by my slur

02:01:32 [sbp]

.http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/hannum-efdtt-source.txt

02:01:34 [AaronSw]

I wonder what people will think of such a large paste.

02:01:34 [xena]

/* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* */ /* Thanks to Phil Carmody for additional tweaks. */ /* */ /* Length: 434 bytes (excluding unnecessary newlines) */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ #define m(i)(x[i]^s[i+84])y)c+=y=i^i/8^i>>4^i>>12,i=i>>8^y>14,y=a^a*8^a>8^y/n."[k>>4]*2^k*257/8,s[j]=k^(k&k*2&34) *6^c+~y;}}

02:01:50 [sbp]

Oh, how I laugh

02:01:52 [AaronSw]

cool

02:02:05 [AaronSw]

Once again, that telephone number is:

02:02:07 [AaronSw]

unsigned char x[5],y,s[2048];main(n){for(read(0,x,5);read(0,s,n=2048);write(1,s

02:02:07 [AaronSw]

,n))if(s[y=s[13]%8+20]/16%4==1){int i=m(1)17^256+m(0)8,k=m(2)0,j=m(4)17^m(3)9^k

02:02:08 [AaronSw]

*2-k%8^8,a=0,c=26;for(s[y]-=16;--c;j*=2)a=a*2^i&1,i=i/2^j&1<<24;for(j=127;++j<n

02:02:08 [AaronSw]

;c=c>y)c+=y=i^i/8^i>>4^i>>12,i=i>>8^y<<17,a^=a>>14,y=a^a*8^a<<6,a=a>>8^y<<9,k=s

02:02:08 [AaronSw]

[j],k="7Wo~'G_\216"[k&7]+2^"cr3sfw6v;*k+>/n."[k>>4]*2^k*257/8,s[j]=k^(k&k*2&34)

02:02:10 [AaronSw]

*6^c+~y;}}

02:02:18 [sbp]

lol!

02:02:35 [sbp]

ow, I was drinking at the time, and some drink went up my nose

02:02:47 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

02:03:12 [AaronSw]

Without line breaks:

02:03:12 [sbp]

.http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/qrpff.pl

02:03:14 [xena]

qB8,unqb8,qT,_^$a[--D]}@INC;s/...$/1$&/;Q=unqV,qb25,_;H=73;O=$b[4]>8^(P=(E=255)&(Q>>12^Q>>4^Q/8^Q))>8^(E&(F=(S=O>>14&7^O) ^S*8^S>=8 )+=P+(~F&E))for@a[128..$#a]}print+qT,@a}';s/[D-HO-U_]/\$$&/g;s/q/pack+/g;eval

02:03:22 [AaronSw]

--

02:03:22 [AaronSw]

unsigned char x[5],y,s[2048];main(n){for(read(0,x,5);read(0,s,n=2048);write(1,s,n))if(s[y=s[13]%8+20]/16%4==1){int i=m(1)17^256+m(0)8,k=m(2)0,j=m(4)17^m(3)9^k*2-k%8^8,a=0,c=26;for(s[y]-=16;--c;j*=2)a=a*2^i&1,i=i/2^j&1<<24;for(j=127;++j<n;c=c>y)c+=y=i^i/8^i>>4^i>>12,i=i>>8^y<<17,a^=a>>14,y=a^a*8^a<<6,a=a>>8^y<<9,k=s[j],k="7Wo~'G_\216"[k&7]+2^"cr3sfw6v;*k+>/n."[k>>4]*2^k*257/8,s[j]=k^(k&k*2&34)*6^c+~y;}}

02:03:40 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh; we rock, sometimes

02:04:19 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

02:08:25 [sbp]

Python version: http://www.crackmonkey.org/warez/decss.py

02:08:43 [sbp]

Quite funny

02:08:43 [AaronSw]

umm, that's something different

02:08:49 [AaronSw]

Yeah, isn't it?

02:08:50 [sbp]

:-)

02:09:08 [AaronSw]

I was thinking of running it over infomesh.net

02:09:57 [sbp]

running what over what?

02:10:16 [AaronSw]

DeCSS

02:12:27 [Morbus]

whoo! i think i'm done all my email.

02:12:44 [AaronSw]

.email morbus@disobey.com mwahaha // now you're not!

02:12:45 [xena]

email successfully sent.

02:12:47 [AaronSw]

:-)

02:12:52 [Morbus]

hehehe :)

02:14:37 [sbp]

heh, heh

02:15:27 [Morbus]

* Morbus is currently listening to 'Hope You Don't Mind' on Johnny Dowd's album 'Pictures From Life's Other Side'.

02:15:27 [Morbus]

!itunes

02:32:45 [AaronSw]

Ooh, it's Noebl prize time

02:37:58 [xena]

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02:38:00 [xena]

<AaronSw@esp> hi

02:38:15 [xena]

*** AaronSw@esp (aaronsw@irc.espnow.com) parts

02:38:18 [sbp]

What on earth are you doing?

02:38:45 [AaronSw]

mirroring this channel to the esp network

02:38:53 [sbp]

why?

02:39:09 [AaronSw]

for some lazy folks

02:39:15 [sbp]

such as?

02:39:25 [AaronSw]

oh, never mind

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02:40:26 [Morbus]

jillium!

02:40:32 [Morbus]

my lord!

02:40:33 [AaronSw]

everyone say hi to jillium. ;-)

02:40:39 [sbp]

Make me

02:40:42 [jillium]

AaronSw was about to tell his tale of the Nobel Prize.

02:40:51 [sbp]

* sbp waves

02:41:10 [AaronSw]

Ok, so in 1995 Joseph Rotblat won the Nobel Peace prize for Pugwash

02:41:11 [AaronSw]

http://www.nobel.se/peace/laureates/1995/index.html

02:41:35 [AaronSw]

And my late grandfather was a big contributor to Pugwash.

02:41:50 [AaronSw]

So my Dad got to go to the ceremony, which was quite exciting.

02:42:05 [AaronSw]

And he brought us all the little Nobel prizes, except they were made of chocolate.

02:42:47 [AaronSw]

And it sounded like a lot of fun, so I want to go to one of the ceremonies one day.

02:42:56 [AaronSw]

Thus ends my story. The floor is open for questions. ;-)

02:43:16 [Morbus]

heh.

02:43:19 [jillium]

Nice!

02:43:19 [Morbus]

would you bring me home chocolates

02:43:23 [jillium]

* jillium waves to Morbus.

02:43:31 [Morbus]

hi jillium! nice to see you hear.

02:43:33 [Morbus]

here, even.

02:43:42 [AaronSw]

I will definitely bring you chocolates Morbus.

02:43:47 [Morbus]

kickass.

02:44:15 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I need to remember more exciting parts of these stories.

02:44:39 [sbp]

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02:46:01 [Morbus]

hmm.

02:46:10 [Morbus]

AaronSw, any idea how to open a gui ie from the command line? and pass it a url?

02:46:29 [AaronSw]

I'd pipe it thru the command line applescript thing.

02:46:45 [Morbus]

dunno how to do that.

02:47:37 [AaronSw]

echo 'tell "Internet Explorer"\n\topen url $1\nend tell' | osascript

02:48:12 [Morbus]

syntax error: Expected end of line but found unknown token. (-2741)

02:48:37 [Morbus]

man, i never knew about this osascript thign

02:48:37 [AaronSw]

s/open url/OpenURL/

02:48:52 [Morbus]

same error.

02:49:39 [Morbus]

comes from osascript.

02:49:51 [AaronSw]

hmm

02:52:24 [AaronSw]

Weird.

02:52:35 [AaronSw]

It works from Python, but not from AppleScript

02:52:56 [Morbus]

yeah, you can also do osascript -e, but that fails too.

02:53:36 [AaronSw]

Might be easiest to grab the Python OSA

02:53:50 [Morbus]

is that built in, or do i have to dl something?

02:54:01 [AaronSw]

you need to download the Python OSA

02:54:12 [AaronSw]

app("Internet Explorer").GetURL('http://www.yahoo.com/')

02:54:17 [AaronSw]

Is this for Ampheta?

02:54:33 [Morbus]

no. i just have a maintenance page on gamegrene that does stuff, and i'm sick of running it myself ;)

02:56:28 [AaronSw]

Yeah, so email that guy and ask him for the OSA

03:00:27 [Morbus]

odd. i can't even run this script from applescript editro.

03:00:51 [AaronSw]

yeah same here

03:01:39 [Morbus]

i'm always getting expected end of line ".

03:02:17 [AaronSw]

yeah same here

03:02:26 [AaronSw]

Unless I use the Python thing.

03:02:58 [jillium]

* jillium waves. I have too many channels open. My head is spinning. Later, folks.

03:03:01 [AaronSw]

c'ya

03:03:06 [jillium]

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03:05:44 [Morbus]

http://www.apple.com/applescript/macosx/scriptable_apps/sherlock.html

03:06:04 [Morbus]

whoa, i see.

03:06:09 [Morbus]

it *needs* application before "IE"

03:06:15 [Morbus]

tell application "Internet Explorer"

03:06:15 [Morbus]

GetURL "http://www.disobey.com/"

03:06:15 [Morbus]

end tell

03:06:16 [Morbus]

.

03:06:17 [AaronSw]

Oh!

03:06:17 [Morbus]

that works fine.

03:06:37 [AaronSw]

whoops

03:07:08 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw wanders off

03:11:05 [Morbus]

AaronSw, this script works:

03:11:06 [Morbus]

osascript -e 'tell application "Internet Explorer"' -e 'OpenUrl "http://www.disobey.com/"' -e 'end tell'

03:11:29 [Morbus]

and it echoes -2 to the screen.

03:22:27 [Morbus]

well, that's lame.

03:22:49 [Morbus]

AaronSw, on my box, if IE isn't opened before this script is run, then the classic ie is attempted, not osx.

03:24:04 [Morbus]

good. the script runs fine if you just substitute icab.

03:24:41 [Morbus]

andmozilla.

03:24:42 [Morbus]

damn,.

03:25:06 [Morbus]

and they don't have to be open.

03:25:10 [Morbus]

just wish i could get the X IE.

03:32:30 [AaronSw]

rename the old ie

03:32:42 [AaronSw]

or the new one

03:32:59 [AaronSw]

i wonder if you can provide a path

03:33:05 [Morbus]

does that work? i thought there was some magic inside the app that controlled the as name.

03:33:17 [AaronSw]

yeah, that too

03:35:29 [Morbus]

yeah, you were right.

03:35:29 [Morbus]

the renaming worked.

03:37:11 [AaronSw]

Cool

03:50:19 [Morbus]

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04:35:41 [AaronSw]

@ http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=109257

04:35:47 [chumpster]

B: Independent News from AaronSw

04:37:33 [AaronSw]

B:|Incredible First-Person Story of Afghan Anger

04:37:34 [chumpster]

titled item B

06:16:08 [AaronSw]

I'm a mojo multimillionaire!

06:16:29 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.mojonation.net/download/download.shtml

06:16:47 [chumpster]

C: http://www.mojonation.net/download/download.shtml from AaronSw

06:17:33 [AaronSw]

C:|MojoNation 0.999 Released (Really Good Edition)

06:17:34 [chumpster]

titled item C

06:17:51 [AaronSw]

C::I'm a mojo multimillionaire!

06:17:52 [chumpster]

commented item C

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14:16:12 [AaronSw]

.seen anubis3

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anubis3 seen joining #infoanarchy ~ 1 day(s) 10 hr(s) 28 min(s) 8 sec(s) ago

14:54:08 [AaronSw]

.time

14:54:09 [xena]

2001/12/11 14:55:41.4487 Universal

15:52:28 [sbp]

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15:53:44 [sbp]

"New! Search 3 billion documents using Google" - http://www.google.com/3.html

15:57:21 [sbp]

[[[

15:57:22 [sbp]

Those TAG participants nominated and elected by the W3C Membership (in

15:57:22 [sbp]

alphabetical order by last name) are:

15:57:22 [sbp]

* Paul Cotton, Chair of W3C XML Query Working Group and Member of

15:57:22 [sbp]

the XML Protocol Working Group (Microsoft Corporation)

15:57:22 [sbp]

* Roy Fielding, Co-author of HTTP/1.1 (eBuilt, Inc. and Chairman of

15:57:23 [sbp]

the Apache Software Foundation)

15:57:25 [sbp]

* David Orchard, Member of the W3C XML Core and XML Protocol

15:57:27 [sbp]

Working Groups (BEA Systems)

15:57:29 [sbp]

* Norman Walsh, Member of the W3C XSL and XML Core Working Groups,

15:57:31 [sbp]

and the URI Interest Group (Sun Microsystems)

15:57:33 [sbp]

* Stuart Williams, Member of the W3C XML Protocol Working Group

15:57:35 [sbp]

(Hewlett-Packard Company)

15:57:39 [sbp]

Those TAG participants appointed by the W3C Director (in alphabetical

15:57:41 [sbp]

order by last name) are:

15:57:43 [sbp]

* Tim Bray, Co-editor of W3C XML 1.0 (Antarcti.ca)

15:57:45 [sbp]

* Dan Connolly, Semantic Web developer, former W3C HTML Working

15:57:47 [sbp]

Group Chair and XML Activity Lead (W3C)

15:57:49 [sbp]

* Chris Lilley, Chair, W3C SVG Working Group, and W3C Graphics

15:57:51 [sbp]

Activity Lead (W3C)

15:58:10 [sbp]

]]] - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2001Dec/0003

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18:23:52 [Morbus]

new version of trillian looks good!

18:23:56 [Morbus]

damn! the user list is on the left now!

18:24:12 [Morbus]

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18:24:27 [sbp]

Heh, heh, heh

18:50:34 [AaronSw]

Ooh, TAG announcements.

18:52:15 [sbp]

Oh, at last. How long has it been since they came out? I thought you'd be running around like an excited poodle at the whiff of it

18:52:22 [AaronSw]

I would be if I was home. ;-)

18:52:30 [AaronSw]

Just got back from a nice walk.

18:53:11 [Morbus]

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18:53:20 [Morbus]

mmkay.

18:53:27 [Morbus]

this time, its not gonna log me off. no.

18:53:35 [AaronSw]

I must say I am disappointed with these TAG results. They do seem to represent their constituency, though.

18:54:00 [sbp]

Who would you have voted in, then?

18:54:01 [Morbus]

oh great!

18:54:06 [Morbus]

now the flipping window doesn't blink.

18:55:03 [AaronSw]

I'd have voted for Mark Baker, Roy Fielding... dunno who else was nominated.

18:55:29 [sbp]

heh, I *knew* you'd say those two. REST, REST, REST...

18:56:48 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html

18:57:10 [chumpster]

D: 20 Year Archive now Available on Google Groups from AaronSw

18:58:39 [AaronSw]

D:Some highlights include [TimBL's summary of the WorldWideWeb project|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6487%40cernvax.cern.ch] and the [GNU Announcement|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=771%40mit-eddie.UUCP].

18:59:12 [sbp]

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19:16:42 [AaronSw]

OK, so my votes would be for: Roy Fielding, Mark Baker, Myself...

19:17:03 [AaronSw]

Crazy thoughts: Rohit Khare, Pat Hayes, Edd Dumbill, Ray Ozzie, Philip Greenspun

19:17:19 [AaronSw]

Obviously sbp if he was running.

19:17:35 [AaronSw]

It's hard to think of anyone else who really understands the Web.

19:17:45 [AaronSw]

Danbri?

19:18:06 [AaronSw]

Dave Winer would be an interesting addition.

19:18:32 [AaronSw]

Obviously a lot of W3C people do, but I want to try and pick non-W3Cers

19:19:20 [AaronSw]

Mark Nottingham

19:21:08 [AaronSw]

Ooh, David Gelernter would be awesome to have

19:21:42 [AaronSw]

Mark Miller, but I hear he turned it down.

19:26:22 [AaronSw]

Clay Shirky would be interesting.

19:26:34 [AaronSw]

Ah,

19:26:40 [AaronSw]

Henrik of course.

19:42:34 [AaronSw]

And what about Larry Masinter?

19:46:38 [Morbus]

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19:47:08 [Morbus]

* Morbus grumbles

19:48:06 [AaronSw]

hmm?

19:49:40 [AaronSw]

D::Some highlights include [TimBL's summary of the WorldWideWeb project|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6487%40cernvax.cern.ch] and the [GNU Announcement|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=771%40mit-eddie.UUCP].

19:49:43 [chumpster]

commented item D

19:50:00 [AaronSw]

D::I'm now convinced more than ever that they need to team up with [The Internet Archive|http://www.archive.org/].

19:50:00 [chumpster]

commented item D

19:51:33 [Morbus]

hey AaronSw.

19:51:40 [AaronSw]

howdy

19:51:58 [Morbus]

how are ya?

19:52:27 [AaronSw]

okedoke

19:53:01 [Morbus]

do you still like me?

19:53:25 [AaronSw]

of course

19:53:29 [Morbus]

ok. phew.

19:55:09 [Morbus]

someone hates me. i can feel it.

19:56:01 [AaronSw]

hmm

19:57:00 [Morbus]

ever heard of instructionaltechnology.editthispage.com

19:57:01 [Morbus]

?

19:57:31 [AaronSw]

nope

19:57:34 [AaronSw]

404

19:57:42 [Morbus]

i'm not even getting that.

19:57:45 [Morbus]

http://www.daypop.com/search?q=kevin+hemenway&t=a

19:59:36 [AaronSw]

Hmm

19:59:37 [AaronSw]

@ http://loki.stockton.edu/~ken/ceresly/

20:00:00 [chumpster]

E: Ceres-Ly -- A Ceres Weblog from AaronSw

20:00:30 [AaronSw]

E::Kenneth Tompkins really likes [Ceres|http://www.eastgate.com/Development/].

20:00:31 [chumpster]

commented item E

20:04:25 [AaronSw]

E::If only it was Carbonized...

20:04:28 [chumpster]

commented item E

20:04:39 [Morbus]

i've got so much flipping stuff to read and do.

20:04:53 [Morbus]

its like the God Of Shit Morbus Likes had Diahreaa all day.

20:05:02 [AaronSw]

lol

20:20:34 [Morbus]

my new article should be out friday.

20:21:12 [AaronSw]

cool

20:24:12 [Morbus]

so that stupid osascript thing we did, doesn't seem to work through cron.

20:24:22 [Morbus]

it opens the browser, but never shifts off the URL.

20:24:32 [Morbus]

the first time it ran through cron, CrashReporter complained that osascript had crashed.

20:24:40 [Morbus]

sigh.

20:24:51 [Morbus]

i'll probably just create a normal AS, and then "open -a" it,

20:24:53 [Morbus]

.

20:31:05 [AaronSw]

what do you mean by "shifts off"

20:31:35 [Morbus]

it never opens the url - it never even seems to past the GetURL (or OpenURL) request.

20:31:54 [AaronSw]

odd

20:32:00 [Morbus]

yeah. it is.

20:32:05 [AaronSw]

you did put "application" in, right?

20:32:48 [Morbus]

mmhmm.

20:32:59 [Morbus]

i needed that for the script to even do anything.

20:34:27 [Morbus]

aaron, what's the magic to turn off popups in mozilla?

20:34:42 [AaronSw]

i thought you knew

20:34:47 [Morbus]

i forgot.

20:35:08 [AaronSw]

logster, grep -i mozilla.*dom

20:35:53 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'mozilla.*dom'

20:35:54 [logster]

0) 2001-12-11 20:35:08 <AaronSw> logster, grep -i mozilla.*dom

20:36:38 [AaronSw]

i dunno offhand

20:36:49 [Morbus]

i thought you knew

20:36:53 [Morbus]

<g>

20:36:59 [AaronSw]

i didn't memorize it

20:37:05 [AaronSw]

i put it in the logs :)

20:37:10 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

20:38:46 [Morbus]

01,00search on your box for a file called "all.js" and edit the following line:pref("browser.urlbar.showPopup", true);

20:42:28 [sbp]

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20:42:48 [Morbus]

ahoy, matey!

20:42:49 [AaronSw]

sbp!

20:44:03 [Morbus]

split pea hates us! he really hates us!

20:44:09 [Morbus]

talk to us, split pea! talk to us!

20:45:04 [sbp]

Damn right I hate you

20:45:16 [Morbus]

* Morbus gulps.

20:45:31 [sbp]

* sbp thinks it's time for a good ol' fasioned showdown

20:45:37 [sbp]

er... sorry, I mean ho'down

20:45:55 [AaronSw]

his rival was hot / he drew first and shot

20:46:03 [AaronSw]

and then changed the song to a ho'down

20:46:18 [sbp]

and Rocky Racoon, went back to his room, only to find Gideon's Bible...

20:46:35 [AaronSw]

Morbus was surprised / he gulped and he jived

20:46:35 [AaronSw]

and asked sbp for the low-down

20:46:57 [sbp]

I remember walking into a music store, when that was playing, and asking the person I was with who it was...

20:47:08 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

20:47:57 [sbp]

* sbp is recovering WWW history from Google; thanks Google!

20:48:42 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

20:48:46 [AaronSw]

I knew you would do that.

20:48:56 [sbp]

He he he

20:49:01 [Morbus]

in 1814 we took a little trip.

20:49:10 [sbp]

Where to?

20:49:13 [Morbus]

along with col. jackson down the mighty mississip!

20:49:47 [sbp]

Ah, the Mississip'. Powerful good

20:49:54 [AaronSw]

The funniest thing is that TimBL could spell back then.

20:50:04 [AaronSw]

It must go bad with age, like sight and hearing.

20:50:07 [Morbus]

i have no clue what you guys are talking about.

20:50:21 [AaronSw]

i'm talking 'bout http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6484%40cernvax.cern.ch

20:50:22 [sbp]

Neither do we

20:50:41 [Morbus]

ah. yes, 20 year google :)

20:51:07 [Morbus]

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=morbus%40totalnetnh.net&hl=en&rnum=2&selm=5rruc4%24303%241%40news.sccsi.com

20:51:23 [Morbus]

check out that awesome url :)

20:51:25 [AaronSw]

Heh, the W3C still maintians their /TheProject.html URI.

20:51:38 [AaronSw]

heh heh, Morbus

20:52:03 [Morbus]

that was before disobey even existed. ah. the days :)

20:52:10 [AaronSw]

TimBL: "SGML (ugh! but standard) mark-up"

20:59:54 [sbp]

[[[

20:59:54 [sbp]

Doug Thompson has written what I felt was a thoughtful article on

20:59:54 [sbp]

censorship -- my acceptance or rejection of its points is not

20:59:54 [sbp]

particularly germane to this posting, however.

21:00:00 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal-msw.html

21:00:14 [sbp]

That's an example of a USENET article that TimBL used in his original proposal

21:00:32 [sbp]

Whilst I could not find all of Doug Thompson's thing, I did find one followup...

21:00:39 [sbp]

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&rnum=1&selm=2881%40eos.UUCP

21:00:47 [sbp]

Which includes elements of the original :-)

21:03:00 [sbp]

Well, Google are certainly missing a few messages

21:03:39 [AaronSw]

Lots of interesting old DanC postings:

21:03:43 [AaronSw]

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:Dan+author:Connolly+web&start=70&hl=en&scoring=d&rnum=73&selm=70%40victoria.cs.utexas.edu

21:03:57 [AaronSw]

[[[

21:03:59 [AaronSw]

Oh Nooooooooo!

21:03:59 [AaronSw]

I thought I could post my 2 cents worth without bashing, but

21:03:59 [AaronSw]

now I've started an X-vs-Mac thread.

21:04:00 [AaronSw]

I'll just say that given the state of Mac software before

21:04:00 [AaronSw]

Multifinder, I'm pleased with Apple's multi-tasking offering.

21:04:00 [AaronSw]

Originally I thought it was useless, but now that I have enough

21:04:02 [AaronSw]

memory and some good software, I find it very useful.

21:04:04 [AaronSw]

I'm outa here before I create another monster.

21:04:06 [AaronSw]

(did I at least spell everything right this time?)

21:04:08 [AaronSw]

Dan

21:04:10 [AaronSw]

]]]

21:04:12 [AaronSw]

- http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=70%40victoria.cs.utexas.edu

21:05:17 [AaronSw]

DanC uses N3 in 1991! http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9206092310.AA20418%40pixel.convex.com

21:05:35 [AaronSw]

That also seems to be his first mention of the WWW

21:06:02 [sbp]

lol @ N3

21:06:07 [AaronSw]

"[I would like to see the world-wide web adopt MIME solutions for these issues, though.]"

21:06:17 [AaronSw]

Well, it's a lot like N3 -- they didn't have bNodes back then, you see.

21:07:02 [sbp]

They are certainly missing some posts... Hmm...

21:07:37 [AaronSw]

DanC: "I'm working on a DTD for something called the HyperText Markup Language used by the World-Wide Web project. It's a fairly mundane DTD, with headers, lists and such; no minimization or anything. The idea is that mere mortals should be able to write parsers and generators for this language." http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1992Dec10.020628.4884%40news.eng.convex.com

21:07:52 [carter.openprojects.net]

carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: WWW History Extravaganza

21:08:08 [AaronSw]

BLURB:WWW History Fun

21:08:10 [chumpster]

F: WWW History Fun from AaronSw

21:08:42 [AaronSw]

F::TimBL's [first post|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6484%40cernvax.cern.ch].

21:08:43 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:09:32 [AaronSw]

F::TimBL [summarizes the WorldWideWeb project|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6487%40cernvax.cern.ch].

21:09:34 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:11:28 [AaronSw]

F::TimBL's [original proposal|http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal-msw.html] quotes a Usenet article in '89, of which we can only find [remnants|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2881%40eos.UUCP].

21:11:29 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:11:55 [AaronSw]

F::DanC's [first post|http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:Dan+author:Connolly+web&start=70&hl=en&scoring=d&rnum=73&selm=70%40victoria.cs.utexas.edu] has him starting a flame war.

21:11:56 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:12:20 [AaronSw]

F::DanC's [first mention of the WWW|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9206092310.AA20418%40pixel.convex.com] back in 1991 seems to use some ancient N3.

21:12:21 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:12:57 [AaronSw]

F::DanC [asks for help with his HTML DTD|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1992Dec10.020628.4884%40news.eng.convex.com]: "It's a fairly mundane DTD, with headers, lists and such; no minimization or anything. The idea is that mere mortals should be able to write parsers and generators for this language."

21:12:58 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:16:24 [AaronSw]

F::Even back in 1992, DanC [was looking for|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1992Aug12.050720.5458%40news.eng.convex.com] "information processing where the computer has knowledge of the semantics of the information behind the presentation", after hearing Douglas Engelbart speak on it.

21:16:25 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:19:02 [Morbus]

hey, AaronSw, any idea. well, nevermind. its a long story.

21:19:04 [Morbus]

no time for it now.

21:19:10 [Morbus]

concerns mozilla and xhtml.

21:19:12 [AaronSw]

umm, ok

21:19:48 [Morbus]

i could give you the bug report if you want.

21:19:52 [Morbus]

but its long, confusing, and obtuse.

21:20:04 [Morbus]

its stopped me from basically using xhtml every single place i got

21:20:10 [AaronSw]

F::DanC [says|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1993Jan16.051234.29089%40news.eng.convex.com] "I have fought tooth-and-nail with implementors and information providers to acutally use the SGML standard, and I'm gaining ground."

21:20:11 [Morbus]

i go, because i don't know how to fix it.

21:20:13 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:20:21 [AaronSw]

give it to bugzilla

21:20:32 [AaronSw]

i hope it's not too bad

21:20:44 [Morbus]

its already at bugzilla. its been there since the dawn of time.

21:20:48 [Morbus]

and there's a big squabble over what's right.

21:20:50 [Morbus]

its not so good.

21:20:52 [AaronSw]

hmm

21:21:02 [AaronSw]

send me the link sometme and i'll take a look

21:21:03 [Morbus]

rougly speaking, when you use xhtml, mozilla assigns weirdass lineheights to pages.

21:21:09 [AaronSw]

wacky

21:21:11 [Morbus]

for example, if you have moz on your box, go to gamegrene.com with it.

21:21:16 [Morbus]

you'll see that the table is all fucked up.

21:21:28 [Morbus]

well, not the table, but the spacing of the elements within the tables.

21:21:32 [AaronSw]

does it work if you take the DTD out?

21:21:38 [Morbus]

yeah, it doesn.

21:21:40 [Morbus]

it does, yes.

21:21:44 [AaronSw]

or css it right?

21:21:55 [Morbus]

the bug reports suggests its because of mozilla's strict mode.

21:22:02 [Morbus]

this happens even if you don't use css.

21:22:04 [AaronSw]

makes sense

21:22:23 [AaronSw]

yeah, but can you use css to set the line-heights to be correct?

21:22:49 [Morbus]

i've tried that, and they suggest that in the zilla, but nothing worked magically. anything i did to make it look good in moz killed the other browsers.

21:23:25 [AaronSw]

ouch

21:26:14 [Morbus]

on what site, i was able to min. the effect by doing a font-size: 12px for the body tag, but that trick didn't work on other sites.

21:26:31 [Morbus]

on one site, rather.

21:26:44 [AaronSw]

hmmph

21:28:16 [AaronSw]

F::DanC uses his catch-phrase "We believe in the interconnectedness of all things" for [the first time|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=CONNOLLY.94Nov17111815%40ulua.hal.com].

21:28:21 [chumpster]

commented item F

21:29:12 [Morbus]

if youre bored: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22274

21:31:13 [AaronSw]

so did you try setting CSS line-height on the page?

21:31:18 [Morbus]

mmhmm.

21:31:37 [Morbus]

and that screwed every other browser i tested by scrunching the words together to be nearly unreadable.

21:31:52 [AaronSw]

hmm

21:32:11 [Morbus]

or rather, scrunching them enough to not pass my anal standards ;)

21:32:21 [AaronSw]

and you tried:

21:32:23 [AaronSw]

* using 'display: block' on the images (works in many situations, but not all,

21:32:23 [AaronSw]

and logically preferred)

21:32:23 [AaronSw]

* using 'vertical-align: bottom' on the images

21:32:44 [Morbus]

i didn't, since it happened on pages and sections of pages where there were no images nearby

21:32:50 [AaronSw]

weird

21:34:58 [Morbus]

i guess i'll have to try and do some more test cases.

21:35:07 [Morbus]

i reported this as a bug a year ago, which was then reassigned to this one.

21:35:31 [AaronSw]

I assume you read http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~dbaron/css/2000/01/dibm

21:36:05 [Morbus]

i haven't, no.

21:36:19 [Morbus]

i'm not looking for super correct evil standards. i'm looking for the one that works the best in all browsers back to 4.

21:37:59 [AaronSw]

then i guess you should take out the doctype

21:38:10 [Morbus]

that's about the only solution i came to as well.

21:38:14 [Morbus]

which is a pain in the ass :)

21:38:43 [AaronSw]

heh

21:40:09 [Morbus]

in the newer pages, i do try to validate them. but its a pain if i have to k... wait!

21:40:14 [Morbus]

shit, duh, this rocks!

21:40:16 [Morbus]

yay. nevermind.

21:40:23 [Morbus]

found a way around that. kinda sorta.

21:40:34 [AaronSw]

heh

21:41:04 [Morbus]

i'll just remove the doctype if a moz browser hits the page. easy to do with ssi's.

21:42:52 [Morbus]

lol : http://chris.raettig.org/email/jnl00043.html

21:43:10 [em]

em (~em@dhcp065-024-049-132.columbus.rr.com) has joined #swhack

21:44:02 [AaronSw]

lol

21:44:05 [AaronSw]

hi em

21:44:13 [em]

howdy AaronSw :)

21:44:15 [Morbus]

em. i know em somewhere.

21:44:23 [em]

howdy Morbus :)

21:44:29 [Morbus]

heyas :)

21:44:29 [AaronSw]

em is supreme vegemite leader of the semantic web

21:44:36 [Morbus]

oh right, right. i thi. yeah. ok.

21:44:37 [AaronSw]

he chatted with you about amphetadesk

21:44:48 [Morbus]

apple likes me, too :)

21:44:51 [em]

been a while, Morbus

21:44:59 [AaronSw]

em, do you have any good newsgroup posts?

21:45:03 [Morbus]

i know. it has. i don't hang in the same alleys as you.

21:45:32 [em]

* em think this is not neccessary a bad thing for morbus

21:45:37 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

21:45:52 [Morbus]

:)

21:46:07 [Morbus]

i think the last conversation you and i had was about what you were going to eat.

21:46:20 [em]

newgroup posts.. nope... here in part to lurk, and see if i've got a new test area for annoChump bridge

21:46:30 [AaronSw]

Ah, perhaps so.

21:46:39 [em]

-> annoChump rough blurb http://www.w3.org/2001/09/chump

21:47:18 [em]

but mostly lurking :)

21:47:37 [AaronSw]

I've had some fun setting up the chump but I haven't done as much as I should.

21:48:35 [em]

i'm intersted inpart to start grafting things together.. whole greater than the sum of the parts thing, etc.etc.

21:50:02 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.w3.org/2001/09/chump/

21:50:06 [chumpster]

G: http://www.w3.org/2001/09/chump/ from AaronSw

21:50:12 [Morbus]

"And then the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of ten Grinches plus two."

21:50:14 [AaronSw]

Hmm, wonder why autotitle didn't work that itme.

21:50:17 [Morbus]

http://www.dailywav.com/1201/10plus2.wav

21:50:31 [AaronSw]

G:|annoChump Overview

21:50:32 [chumpster]

titled item G

21:50:42 [AaronSw]

G::From [Eric Miller|http://www.w3.org/people/em/]

21:50:44 [chumpster]

commented item G

21:51:46 [Morbus]

heh. "WARNING: Site contains Comic Sans font " - from davezilla.com

21:51:57 [em]

* em would be interested for pointer to chumpster modifications... wonders if chumpster better models annotations

21:52:20 [AaronSw]

Not really, unfortunately.

21:52:25 [em]

sigh...

21:52:26 [em]

ok

21:52:29 [AaronSw]

I like where SemantiChimp is going with that, tho

21:53:02 [em]

yes, me too... bizan have an ETA for this?

21:53:12 [em]

s/z/j

21:53:18 [AaronSw]

yeah, it's like 3 months ago or something ;/

21:53:24 [em]

:)

21:53:30 [AaronSw]

.beats calculation in one line of python: n=time.gmtime(); return int(math.floor(n[3]*3600+n[4]*60+n[5]+(60*60)/86.4))

21:53:32 [em]

yeah, thats what I recall as well

21:53:50 [em]

ok... back to work... talk later

21:53:54 [AaronSw]

c'ya

21:54:03 [Morbus]

ciao

21:55:37 [em]

* em reminds himself to bring up peerkat/amphetedesk discussions here some time

21:55:46 [AaronSw]

good idea

21:55:46 [Morbus]

:)

21:55:55 [AaronSw]

oops, correction to code above:

21:55:56 [Morbus]

you mean, i've been missing them somewhere else?

21:56:10 [AaronSw]

.beats calculation in one line of python: n=time.gmtime();return int(math.floor((n[3]*3600+n[4]*60+n[5]+(60*60))/86.4))

21:56:31 [Morbus]

ooh: http://www.fogcreek.com/CityDesk/kb/fog0000000056.html

21:56:48 [AaronSw]

BLURB:W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG) Dream Team

21:56:51 [chumpster]

H: W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG) Dream Team from AaronSw

22:01:03 [AaronSw]

H::Roy Fielding, Henrik Frystyk Nielsen, Larry Masinter, Mark Baker, Aaron Swartz ;)

22:01:03 [AaronSw]

H::Luminaries: David Gelernter, Mark Miller

22:01:03 [AaronSw]

H::Friends: Dan Brickley, Sean B. Palmer, Mark Nottingham

22:01:03 [AaronSw]

H::Interesting people: Dave Winer, Clay Shirky

22:01:03 [AaronSw]

H::Wild guesses: Rohit Khare, Pat Hayes, Edd Dumbill, Ray Ozzie, Philip Greenspun

22:01:04 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:01:07 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:01:09 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:01:13 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:01:16 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:01:30 [AaronSw]

H::Obviously a lot of W3C people would be appropriate, but I wanted to spread things around a little.

22:01:32 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:07:50 [AaronSw]

H::See [the TAG homepage|http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/] for more.

22:09:15 [AaronSw]

H::The current five elected members are: Paul Cotton, Roy Fielding, David Orchard, Normal Walsh, Stuart Williams.

22:09:21 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:10:31 [Morbus]

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20011210201038211

22:10:32 [chumpster]

commented item H

22:11:11 [chumpster]

chumpster has quit (Remote closed the connection)

22:12:11 [chumpster]

chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

22:12:29 [Morbus]

Real Player for OS X coming soon Real Networks told Vance Martin: "There are plans to have a version of Real Player that supports Mac OS X released after the first of the year."

22:12:39 [AaronSw]

Woohoo!

22:12:43 [Morbus]

:)

22:15:10 [Morbus]

Niche writes Well it appears that those on a dailup who want to get Linux better be prepared to stay online for a few days to get their favorite distro. Apparently Red Hat has put an end to the sale of their very cheap software (ususally going for about $5) software on retailers like CheapBytes and Walnut Creek. You can check out the whole story, here.

22:18:11 [DanC]

DanC (~connolly@adsl-66-140-72-120.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has joined #swhack

22:18:14 [Morbus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/club/your_reports/newsid_1697000/1697132.stm

22:18:17 [Morbus]

hey Dan!

22:18:22 [AaronSw]

hi DanC

22:18:27 [DanC]

hey! tim's first post! I've been looking for that for AGES!

22:18:54 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw send loads of thanks to Google and its many contributors

22:19:37 [DanC]

I'm pretty sure I read that first post. From my office at Convex.

22:19:59 [AaronSw]

Heh.

22:20:29 [DanC]

hmm... I still have the "Mr. Grape" thingy we tossed around in the office back then... somebody picked it up on a late-night pizza run. One of those $1.29 playground balls. We named a supercomputer after it.. mrgrape.convex.com

22:20:46 [AaronSw]

Mr. Grape?

22:20:57 [DanC]

well, yeah. Mr. Grape.

22:21:02 [Morbus]

heh

22:21:03 [DanC]

it's a purple playground ball.

22:21:19 [DanC]

it's popped now; you can wear it on your head like a hat now.

22:21:31 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

22:21:41 [DanC]

* DanC could take a picture of my 2-year-old doing just that, if he had a bit more free time

22:22:49 [DanC]

hmm.. I have a tape (yes, a tape. like in the 1960's computer movies) of my home directory from convex; I wonder if it shows that I read that alt.hypertext article.

22:23:23 [AaronSw]

when you pulled it out of your computer did it start singing Daisy, Daisy... sorry ;)

22:23:35 [AaronSw]

It's weird because for some reason Google doesn't recognize comp.infosystems.www as a valid group, so it's hard to get to a lot of the postings.

22:23:56 [Morbus]

heh, heh @ daisy.

22:23:57 [DanC]

holy cow... (s881@cs.utexas.edu) ... I forgot about that.

22:24:26 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

22:25:20 [AaronSw]

It's hard to find more from TimBL since he switched to another address, and for some reason Google says "No pages were found containing "berners-lee"."

22:27:07 [AaronSw]

F::Actually, TimBL's [very first post|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1168%40cernvax.UUCP] was reporting a GCC bug.

22:27:08 [chumpster]

commented item F

22:27:44 [DanC]

aha... seeds of XML: (OK, a generic Minimal SGML routine: I don't want to

22:27:44 [DanC]

mess with short references or variant syntaxes.)

22:29:01 [Morbus]

heh.

22:29:03 [Morbus]

boobies! http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011209/ts/imdf09122001201913a.html

22:30:35 [DanC]

that ancient N3 is lisp, by the way. from the WAIS stuff, which came from thinking machines, a lisp shop.

22:30:48 [AaronSw]

Hmm, it's a weird LISP syntax.

22:31:11 [AaronSw]

the only lisp syntax i've really seen is s-exps and that new thing

22:31:44 [DanC]

(:type "TEXT":content-type "text") is a perfectly good s-expression

22:31:53 [AaronSw]

oh, well you left out the ()s!

22:32:00 [DanC]

yes.

22:32:16 [DanC]

each of the thingies inside the () is an s-expression too, though

22:33:07 [AaronSw]

hmm

22:33:40 [DanC]

:type is a symbol. an atom.

22:33:45 [DanC]

"TEXT" is a string

22:33:46 [DanC]

and so on

22:34:11 [AaronSw]

makes sense

22:34:29 [DanC]

symbols that start with ":" are kinda special; they're treated as constants, rather than variables, in common lisp

22:34:58 [DanC]

sorta the opposite of N3's _:foo

22:37:56 [Morbus]

bah. i need to find an excel template for payrolling writers.

22:38:05 [AaronSw]

ah

22:39:52 [AaronSw]

F::TimBL announces [his new release|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9538%40cernvax.cern.ch] which surfs all sorts of protocols.

22:39:53 [chumpster]

commented item F

22:42:28 [AaronSw]

F::TimBL announces [the new "XMosaic" browser|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1993Jan29.122243.26454%40dxcern.cern.ch]. I vaguely remember seeing an announcement about this.

22:42:30 [chumpster]

commented item F

22:43:01 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)

22:45:32 [AaronSw]

F::TimBL [corrects a "FUNDAMENTAL MISUNDERSTANDING"|http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1992Oct2.103046.17291%40dxcern.cern.ch] by explaing the power of downwards compatibility: "Hypertext turns out to be a neat idea BECAUSE it can represent menus to start with. When you really get into it, you often find that you need a little more. (Look at the Panda project which started just so as to get a little descriptive text above a gopher menu!)."

22:45:36 [chumpster]

commented item F

22:46:21 [DanC]

DanC has left #swhack

22:50:48 [Morbus]

Morbus has left #swhack

23:04:25 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m349-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

23:05:23 [sbp]

Aaron, *please* fix the logs (it keeps happening): http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-11.txt

23:05:31 [AaronSw]

what does?

23:06:01 [AaronSw]

logs seem to work fine for me

23:06:45 [sbp]

Hmm... they're working now

23:06:58 [sbp]

I keep getting:-

23:06:58 [sbp]

[[[

23:06:59 [sbp]

Error:

23:06:59 [sbp]

could not connect to "127.0.0.1:82" (opening connection)

23:06:59 [sbp]

]]]

23:07:12 [AaronSw]

Yeah, that's what happens when the server gets overloaded and kills itself

23:07:35 [sbp]

wow, em in #swhack?

23:07:41 [AaronSw]

yeah

23:07:44 [AaronSw]

and DanC

23:08:31 [sbp]

Heh, cool TAG dream team

23:09:13 [sbp]

lol!:-

23:09:14 [sbp]

[[[

23:09:15 [sbp]

22:20:46 <AaronSw> Mr. Grape?

23:09:15 [sbp]

22:20:57 <DanC> well, yeah. Mr. Grape.

23:09:15 [sbp]

22:21:02 <Morbus> heh

23:09:15 [sbp]

22:21:03 <DanC> it's a purple playground ball.

23:09:15 [sbp]

22:21:19 <DanC> it's popped now; you can wear it on your head like a hat now.

23:09:22 [sbp]

]]] - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-12-11.txt

23:09:25 [AaronSw]

lol

23:09:46 [sbp]

DanC came in here and started talking about Mr. Grape? What is it with this channel?

23:09:59 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

23:10:28 [carter.openprojects.net]

carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: The Preeminent Discussion Group about Mr. Grape

23:10:46 [carter.openprojects.net]

carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: The Preeminent "Mr. Grape" Discussion Group

23:11:25 [sbp]

.google s881@cs.utexas.edu

23:11:26 [xena]

no results found.

23:11:30 [sbp]

Blargh

23:18:43 [sbp]

F::cf. the [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-talk/1991SepOct/0001|first (main) www-talk] message; not started until October 1991

23:18:45 [chumpster]

commented item F

23:22:23 [sbp]

Wow, this is all really great stuff

23:22:35 [AaronSw]

Blog it!

23:23:51 [sbp]

I'm basically reading the "already blogged" stuff

23:23:57 [AaronSw]

I see.

23:25:30 [sbp]

F::It's hillarious that the only follow-ups in the 6484@cernvax.cern.ch thread completely ignored TimBL

23:25:33 [chumpster]

commented item F

23:25:58 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

23:26:36 [AaronSw]

F::It just goes to show you the value of persistence. I'm sure that even nowadays if you tried to suggest the Semantic Web was a solution to somebody's problem they'd ignore you.

23:26:38 [chumpster]

commented item F

23:27:15 [sbp]

Yes, good point

23:27:54 [sbp]

It happened a bit on semanticweb today... arguing with PFPS about the relative merits of N3 and CWM, although he does have a bit of a case with N3

23:28:07 [AaronSw]

semanticweb being?

23:28:12 [sbp]

yahoogroups

23:28:16 [AaronSw]

ah

23:28:21 [AaronSw]

Didn't know PFPS was on there.

23:30:03 [sbp]

Neither did I :-) He came out of the woodwork. And Seth

23:30:34 [sbp]

* sbp notices em is still in the channel

23:31:04 [AaronSw]

Indeed he is.

23:32:29 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

23:32:41 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m349-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

23:40:58 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw smacks sbp

23:41:35 [sbp]

* sbp jumps

23:41:37 [sbp]

Hi

23:41:47 [AaronSw]

You bad little FUDer

23:42:11 [sbp]

oh, you got the email :-)

23:42:18 [sbp]

Heh, heh, heh, I thought you'd like it

23:43:15 [sbp]

[[[

23:43:15 [sbp]

> I think you have identified the muddy waters, any person

23:43:15 [sbp]

> of course can construct schemas containing terms identified

23:43:15 [sbp]

> by a namespace URI, but there is no 'authority' behind the

23:43:15 [sbp]

> definitions of terms identified by that URI.

23:43:15 [sbp]

Unless you use a "#" on the end.

23:43:18 [sbp]

[Looks around] Who said that?

23:43:22 [sbp]

]]] - http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0112&L=dc-architecture&F=&S=&P=3372

23:43:41 [sbp]

[sound of much laughing]

23:44:06 [sbp]

Heh, your reply is a bit weak. Oh well

23:44:10 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

23:44:27 [sbp]

* sbp will let it be; really doesn't care - it's TAG's problem now

23:44:32 [AaronSw]

I didn't want to get DC riled up again.

23:44:41 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is glad Roy is on the TAG for this reason.

23:45:49 [sbp]

* sbp is that TimBL's the TAG chair for this reason.

23:46:11 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is glad Roy looks like he can beat up TimBL for this reason.

23:46:35 [sbp]

Hash vs. Slash showdown!

23:48:23 [sbp]

DC riled up: nuts to it. They're sensible and intelligent enough to know that we're baiting

23:52:29 [AaronSw]

Man, I really want to enter the Apple Design Awards, but I doubt I'll have any apps until OSA AS Studio comes out.

23:52:39 [AaronSw]

There's always next year, I guess.

23:52:59 [AaronSw]

http://developer.apple.com/students/design/

23:56:43 [AaronSw]

There are a lot of Web-clueful people on the Freenet project.

23:56:58 [AaronSw]

Brandon Wiley got used RDF files for Freenet searching.