00:07:42 @ http://logicerror.com/fragmentProblems 00:07:57 A: http://logicerror.com/fragmentProblems from AaronSw 00:08:16 A:|The Problem With Fragments 00:08:17 titled item A 00:08:34 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 00:11:08 sbp (~sean@m1002-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:11:33 * sbp sends his message about XPointer 00:12:12 @ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Dec/0022 00:12:14 B: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Dec/0022 from sbp 00:12:20 B:|Cool XPointers Do Change? 00:12:21 titled item B 00:12:50 B::Why [http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/CR-xptr-20010911/|XPointer] must not go to recommendation in its current state 00:12:51 commented item B 00:13:07 can you take a look at http://logicerror.com/fragmentProblems for me? 00:13:26 yep 00:14:47 thanks 00:15:06 Seems fine. I don't fully agree with some of the points (we've been over the details many times), but in general it's O.K. 00:28:04 Cool, thanks. 00:36:54 @ http://www.zevils.com/programs/imirc/ 00:36:55 C: http://www.zevils.com/programs/imirc/ from AaronSw 00:37:08 C:|IM->IRC Relay Server 00:37:09 titled item C 00:37:15 C::Very nicely done. 00:37:16 commented item C 00:37:18 * AaronSw disconnects 00:38:05 * AaronSw reconnects 00:38:46 C::Installed on [idlenet|http://idlenet.org/] as AimServ, but doesn't seem to be working right now. 00:38:46 commented item C 00:39:17 where is the topic line from? 00:40:02 I made it up. 00:40:49 Neat 00:41:02 I still think it's true. 00:43:28 @ http://www.google.com/mentalplex/MP_faq.html 00:43:30 D: Google MentalPlex FAQ from AaronSw 00:43:50 lol 00:45:33 D::"""While MentalPlex does have the potential of probing your deepest darkest secrets and desires, this information is only used in aggregate and rarely sold to advertisers unless they ask very, very nicely.""" 00:45:34 commented item D 00:45:45 lol 00:46:23 Google knows all your secrets 00:46:39 It does. 00:46:46 heh, heh, heh: people who know what they want but have problems expressing themselves clearly (e.g., shy persons, 14-year-old boys and actors accepting Academy Awards) 00:47:03 shame we didn't read this a couple of months ago; I would have annoyed you no end 00:47:26 heh:- 00:47:26 [[[ 00:47:26 Problem: MentalPlex keeps taking me to sites featuring rubber toys, nipples and diapering. 00:47:27 Answer: Your infant is too close to the monitor. If you have no children, you may want to consider counseling. 00:47:27 ]]] 00:47:51 lol 00:48:52 I'm sure that Morbus' search results would come up with rubber toys and nipples a lot, but I dunno about diapers. He should certainly seek counseling, anyway 00:49:29 Heh heh heh. 00:50:20 where is he, anyway? 00:50:39 logster, grep 1-1 00:50:48 I'm logging. I found 9153 answers for '' (showing 1...1) 00:50:49 1) 2001-12-09 03:22:33 Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:51:15 ooh, amount of lines 00:51:19 logster, grep 1-1 00:51:46 I'm logging. I found 19570 answers for '' (showing 1...1) 00:51:47 1) 2001-12-10 00:49:29 Heh heh heh. 00:51:50 logster, grep 1-1 00:52:08 I'm logging. I found 16566 answers for '' (showing 1...1) 00:52:09 1) 2001-12-10 00:51:19 logster, grep 1-1 00:52:22 Pff. You win, Morbus loses 00:52:43 16568... 00:54:13 . print str(9153+19570+16569) 00:55:40 .py print str(9153+19570+16570) 00:55:40 45293 01:16:53 .seen Morbus 01:16:54 Morbus seen in #swhack saying: [ i got a cute little image on oreillynet'smain page. cool. ] ~ 1 day(s) 21 hr(s) 37 min(s) 51 sec(s) ago 01:17:24 logster, grep 1-1 . 01:17:51 I'm logging. I found 54542 answers for '.' (showing 1...1) 01:17:52 1) 2001-12-10 01:16:54 Morbus seen in #swhack saying: [ i got a cute little image on oreillynet'smain page. cool. ] ~ 1 day(s) 21 hr(s) 37 min(s) 51 sec(s) ago 01:19:38 .pt 54542 // 45293 01:19:45 .py 54542 / 45293. 01:19:45 1.204203740092288 01:20:29 .py 45293 / 54542. 01:20:30 0.83042426020314619 01:23:16 logster, grep 1-1 > 01:23:24 I'm logging. I found 54548 answers for '>' (showing 1...1) 01:23:25 1) 2001-12-10 01:20:30 0.83042426020314619 01:23:50 . is a special regular expression character which matches anything 01:24:03 yeah, temp. forgot 01:24:24 And I now realize the reason logster takes so long is it has to put out those counts at the top 01:24:31 which means it needs to search the whole set of files] 01:24:47 so, 83% of #swhack ramblings are by us... neat 01:24:59 the #swhack triumvate 02:07:01 * AaronSw disconnects 02:07:20 * AaronSw reconnects 02:11:28 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 02:16:58 SeanP (~sean@m154-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:18:14 SeanP is now known as sbp 02:24:26 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds) 02:29:31 sbp (~sean@m168-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:31:51 sbp, your XPointers email is very good. I hope it gets approved. 02:34:53 thank you 02:34:59 so do I :-) 02:35:04 Heh heh. 02:35:30 I think XPointer has definitely got some problems. 02:35:38 DanC also pointed out the RDF issue, I think. 02:35:38 * sbp is currently messing about with his homepage... one day I'll find a decent layout for it 02:35:49 ooh, do you have a reference? 02:37:01 Not to the list, but he mentioned it last time we did the Fragments Debate game. 02:37:24 .translate wel-eng goynifiad 02:39:10 .translate wel-eng gofyniad 02:39:41 What's it mean? 02:40:01 (Man, and I thought I had figured out the spelling too!) 02:40:05 dized 02:40:43 .translate xena-eng dized 02:40:43 incorrect syntax. see help tranlate for more info. 02:40:50 error: Site Error occurred: IndexError 02:41:01 .google Gofyniad 02:41:02 Gofyniad: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Oct/0040.html 02:41:08 heh! 02:41:50 The only docs with it are all in Welsch. 02:42:03 Or refer to your query system. 02:42:26 heh, heh, heh 02:42:36 Well, what's the most obvious thing that it could be? 02:42:49 query? 02:42:57 :-) 02:43:12 Ask? 02:43:29 I doubt Ask would be such a long word... 02:43:32 er no, correct the first time 02:43:43 Really? 02:43:44 Hmm. 02:43:50 .rot13 dized 02:43:50 I think that it's query, but I'm hardly a Welsh dictionary 02:43:51 qvmrq 02:44:13 :Sean a [ daml:disjointFrom :WelshDictionary ] . 02:44:26 :Sean a :WalkingWelschDictionary . 02:45:09 why do you keep adding the "c"? It's not German, y'know :-) 02:45:37 Probably because of my childhood love for Welch's Grape Juice. 02:46:22 Ah 02:46:45 .google "Welch's Grape Juice" 02:46:46 "Welch's Grape Juice": http://www.welchs.com 02:47:13 @ http://www.welchs.com/ 02:47:20 E: http://www.welchs.com/ from sbp 02:47:28 E:|Aaron's Childhood Love 02:47:29 titled item E 02:47:33 lol 02:47:48 E:|Welch's Grape Juice 02:47:49 titled item E 02:47:51 E::Most people liked girls, (or boys if they were girls), but not Aaron; oh no, he had to be different 02:47:51 commented item E 02:48:01 E::"""More and more pediatricians are recommending White 100% Grape Juice as the best juice to introduce to infants and toddlers.""" 02:48:02 commented item E 02:48:16 E::This is Aaron 02:48:17 commented item E 02:48:27 * AaronSw collapses in fits of laughter 02:48:29 E::s/Aaron/Aaron's childhood love/ 02:48:30 commented item E 02:48:39 fucking ' key! 02:48:48 You do know I have to delete this from the archive now. 02:48:56 aaaaaaaargh! How many times have I come to grief on it? 02:49:00 Heh, heh, heh 02:50:14 E::Isn't it sad how sbp has to hide his true feelings by projecting them on others? 02:50:15 commented item E 02:50:32 Hey, tonight is the first night of Chanukkah. 02:50:37 E::Shhhh! 02:50:38 commented item E 02:50:47 First night of Hannukah? Neat 02:51:03 Did you light a candle, or whatever it is you're supposed to do? 02:51:09 .google Hannukah 02:51:09 Hannukah: http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/festivls/hanuka 02:51:11 E::Perhaps sbp should "Register with Welch's Grapelink to become part of a community of Welch's consumers who receive product updates, coupons and special values from us." 02:51:12 commented item E 02:51:16 Yep, two candles. 02:51:30 Well, actually 6 because there were three menoras. 02:51:41 E::Never even tried it, funnily enough. Must be an American thang 02:51:41 commented item E 02:52:43 @ http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/festivls/hanuka/h2.html 02:52:47 F: The essence of Hanuka\ from sbp 02:53:21 That's actually a pretty good page. 02:53:29 F:|Hanukkah: the essence 02:53:29 titled item F 02:53:37 F::Light those menorahs, spin those dredels, it's the first night of Hannukah, ooh! 02:53:38 commented item F 02:54:09 F::Fun, fun, fun! 02:54:11 commented item F 02:54:18 * sbp can never spell Hebrew words correctly 02:54:18 F::The moder-day irony of it is killing me, though. 02:54:20 commented item F 02:54:23 F::err modern 02:54:24 commented item F 02:54:28 irony? 02:54:33 sbp, that's because there's no correct way to spell them. 02:54:39 something which is akin to an iron? 02:54:45 Heh. 02:54:54 yeah, I know, but I guess that there are more consistent spellings than others 02:55:01 Yeah, the irony is that the holiday is about staying true to the religion in times of secularization. 02:55:19 So what do we do? Make it just like Christmas and have everyone celebrate it? 02:55:39 Hmm... 02:56:19 F::"Happy Hannukah, Monica", sings Phoebe 02:56:21 commented item F 02:57:01 I think I'm holding my mouse wonky, or typing weirdly, because my wrist really hurts 02:57:20 Feels like it's a little dislocated 02:57:25 Yeah, that happened to me yesterday. 02:58:00 ah, shit, and if I try to bend it back into place, I get a rather sharp pain up my arm 02:58:11 * sbp types left handed 02:58:13 Ouch! 02:59:06 it's difficukt to avoid using your right hand for stuuf (or whatever hand you right with!) 02:59:35 yeah. 02:59:46 * AaronSw tries that. 02:59:49 Ow. 03:00:05 I had to do that last night while I was disinfecting my finger. 03:00:55 ooh, what did you do to it? 03:01:26 Nothing special. 03:01:36 Just had a cuticle. 03:01:56 you cut your icle? Painful, I'll bet 03:02:02 heh 03:06:33 * AaronSw disconnects 03:07:33 * AaronSw reconnects 03:12:17 Heh heh heh. From McCusker's weblog: 03:12:19 """ 03:12:20 Charles Kerr writes: 03:12:20 I started reading your weblog a few weeks ago when Cam linked to it. 03:12:20 At first I was just reading the Netscape story, which was interesting. 03:12:21 Then I got into Irondoc, since my app needs a small, free db like that. 03:12:21 Then I noticed I had started editing my sentences to cut to the point. 03:12:22 No sentence was more than a line long. This can't be a coincidence. 03:12:24 Is a support group available? 03:12:26 """ 03:12:44 heh, heh, heh 03:13:35 I wanted to start avoiding a letter, but it's difficult (as we found out) 03:14:11 Yep. 03:16:18 Perhaps danbri might learn DMc's new lang once he finishes with .rb. 03:16:30 Man, that's too hard. 03:18:07 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 03:18:19 sbp (~sean@m168-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:23:16 @ http://web.archive.org/web/20010609190756/groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/11548 03:23:23 G: http://web.archive.org/web/20010609190756/groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/message/11548 from sbp 03:24:21 G:|Re: Python, Tcl and Perl, oh my! (was Re: tcl vs. perl) 03:24:21 G::I really hate how python-list got deleted from Yahoogroups. 03:24:21 titled item G 03:24:23 commented item G 03:24:47 Why did it get deleted? 03:25:18 I don't know. 03:25:24 But I've run into it tons of times. 03:26:17 dngxor_ is now known as dngxor 03:29:31 G::It's interesting that in this letter DanC says that he'll probably never need to use Python. 03:29:32 commented item G 03:29:59 heh, heh, heh 03:32:05 G::Dan's [homepage from around that time|http://web.archive.org/web/19970316172027/http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/People/Connolly/] is interesting too. He used to have [a webcam|http://beach.w3.org/officecam.html]. 03:32:07 commented item G 03:35:42 The Web archive is so much fun. 03:38:33 Hmm, there's a .nl Daniel A. Connolly running about. 03:41:05 http://web.archive.org/web/19980110044258/http://beach.w3.org/ 03:42:09 Heh, it's a franken-PC. 03:42:09 leads to pancake and shoal, too 03:42:28 Where does he get his names? 03:44:55 .google decss haiku 03:44:56 decss haiku: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/decss-haiku.txt 03:45:03 lol 03:45:38 cool stuff:- 03:45:40 [[[ 03:45:40 RDF primer ideas: 03:45:40 things versus their names 03:45:40 hmm... should all naming properties descend from rdfs:label? how about dc:title, dc:identifier? log:uri? 03:45:40 naming conventions: in addition to Class vs. property... what part of speech? isVersionOf versus version vs. hasVersion 03:45:41 comments: use full sentences! don't say "the size of the object". say "for size(X, Y) read: the size of X is Y." 03:45:49 ]]] - http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/ 03:46:10 yes, I came across that Haiku page a while ago... rather funny 03:46:43 descending all naming properties from rdfs:label is an interesting idea 03:47:04 Hmm. 03:47:05 I think I convinced him at one point that dc:title rdfs:subPropertyOf rdfs:label 03:47:21 in fact, the range of dc:title is undefined; it's not necessarily a literal 03:47:37 and therefore, it can't (may not?) be a subProperty. More like the other way around 03:48:02 I've no idea what he means by naming conventions. I should ask him 03:48:45 I know the difference between the terms, but (apart from the inverses) they should be equivalent 03:59:17 tav` (tav@host217-34-77-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 04:03:44 "I want to work on formal systems by day, and go bowling by night" 04:03:57 (or vice versa) 04:04:02 cite? 04:04:31 me, just now 04:04:55 Heh. 04:05:17 And yes, I have considered that it gets dark at night... I figure I'll bowl indoors 04:05:28 Good idea. 04:05:53 Ooh! Message from Tim on # vs. / 04:05:59 Where? 04:06:12 [[[ 04:06:12 I uyse the term "document" because unfortunately "resource" has been 04:06:12 used differently in URI and RDF specs. I mean by "document" 04:06:12 "resource" as in URI. DAML uses the term "Thing" to mean what RDF 04:06:12 terms a resource. 04:06:17 ]]] - www-rdf-interest 04:06:30 Check your mail (in a minute) 04:06:53 document is a really confusing term for Thing. ;-) 04:07:03 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001Dec/0058 04:08:14 I love this way to get DeCSS: 04:08:15 for DVDs in Linux screw the MPAA and ; do dig $DVDs.z.zoy.org @ns1.or.com ; done | \ 04:08:15 ��perl -ne 's/\.//g; print pack("H224",$1) if(/^x([^z]*)/)' | gunzip 04:10:35 So now we have documents and things. Wonderful 04:14:29 Tim's view is very confusing. 04:14:51 I doubt it is consistent. 04:15:56 Perhaps he will answer some more emails 04:17:35 "the best way to make data persistent is to put it in the identifier" 04:18:11 - [ foaf:nick "sbp" ] ., #swhack 04:18:44 actually, that's not quite true 04:19:05 That only makes data as persistent as the identifier. 04:19:05 I could state that I have made a new programming language, and that "x" means to print out my name 1000 times 04:19:12 yeah, exactly 04:19:35 data:application/my-wacky-programming-language,x 04:20:09 you should really use an x-mime type 04:20:20 who cares? 04:20:25 :-) 04:20:38 plus, it's not like these logs are publically archived or anything 04:20:41 The best way to make data persistent is to put it in the swhack logs. 04:20:57 Someday I'll take all the logs and mail them to www-archive or something. :-) 04:21:03 :-) 04:21:04 I'll bet you'll lose them somehow 04:21:20 Actually, I should set up a script to do that nightly. 04:21:26 The best way to make data persistent is to have as many copies of it as possible 04:21:33 Yep. 04:21:38 Hmm... what are the terms for www-archive? 04:21:52 I'm going to take out ads in the New York Times and include compressed versions of the #swhack logs. 04:21:59 That should take care of things. 04:22:08 I mean, I'm sure you can't send spam there, or 5GB files 04:22:13 You're sure? 04:22:13 NYTimes: how much does it cost? 04:22:24 I'm not 100% sure, but it'd be odd 04:22:28 Good point. Maybe we should make it a feature article. 04:23:19 :-) 04:23:44 Or we could encode it into the architecture of some skyscraper. 04:24:59 You can include it as an apendix to your best-selling autobiography. 04:26:06 Aaron, I asked you politely not to mention that I'm writing an autobiography 04:26:16 And what do you go and do? 04:26:20 You did? 04:26:24 I don't remember that... 04:26:30 Feed it into the most persistent information stream in the world 04:26:40 Well, thank you; thanks a lot 04:26:40 Perhaps I should consult the New York Times on this issue. 04:26:50 Heh, heh, heh 04:27:09 @ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0056 04:27:09 Ooh, another good idea: email it to the President. 04:27:11 H: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0056 from sbp 04:27:19 how would that make it persistent? 04:27:26 H:|www-archive? 04:27:27 The National Archives has decided to store all presidential emails. 04:27:27 titled item H 04:27:34 Ooh, great 04:27:50 Dear Mr. President, Here are the #swhack logs as you requested 04:27:58 I presume that you have this all on CD? 04:28:03 And it's on Alexa 04:28:07 it'll be on the Plex 04:28:17 Heh heh. 04:29:29 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m228-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:29:44 sbp (~sean@m228-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:30:29 How big would a .tar.gz of the archives be? 04:30:59 with all 3 formats? 04:31:07 just text/plain 04:31:51 We could .tar.gz it, put it onto 100s of C.D.'s, and mail it to people as presents 04:32:11 That'd make a great birthday present! 04:32:17 uncompressed it's only 3.4Mb 04:32:19 yes! 04:32:20 err MB 04:32:25 compressed? 04:32:35 compress it, and bung it on the Web! 04:32:53 Might fit it onto a floppy disc. Even better 04:33:59 Just a sec... 04:34:11 Ooh, only 1.1M 04:34:17 great! 04:34:30 Even I don't mind hosting that 04:34:37 http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/textlogs.tgz 04:34:54 We should be able to get the whole of #swhack 2001 onto a floppy disc. Great news 04:35:33 indeed 04:35:45 Just hope compression algorithms get better over time. 04:35:50 err continue to 04:35:54 Yes :-) 04:36:09 * AaronSw has that script run nightly 04:36:11 Soon, we'll only need one character 04:36:19 lol 04:36:32 er... 04:36:36 s/weblog/archives/ 04:36:37 they'll build the logs into the compression format ;-) 04:36:49 exactly :-) 04:37:49 * AaronSw takes this opportunity to check on his offsite backups 04:38:22 H::I [respond|http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Dec/0057]. 04:38:24 commented item H 04:38:55 I like your gist 04:39:03 * sbp has downloaded the archive... 04:39:19 Hmm... I wonder how many pages of text the .tar.gz is? 04:39:20 * AaronSw tries to remember the IP address of his offsite backups 04:39:33 how long is a page of text? 04:39:51 it's 4012 lines long 04:40:20 well, depends on how you count i guess 04:41:35 * sbp prints 04:42:04 3500 and rising... 04:42:16 3500 pages? 04:42:25 c.4130 04:42:28 what size are you printing it out as? 04:42:32