00:00:06 * Morbus is currently listening to 'Billy Club' on Junkie XL's album 'Saturday Teenage Kick'. 00:00:08 !itunes 00:00:44 sbp (~sean@m243-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 00:00:48 hey sbp 00:00:58 sbbppp! 00:02:12 Hi there! 00:03:33 [[[ 00:03:33 hey, rik, i gotta tell ya, some guy over in #swhack was trying to usurp your kitty cuteness. 00:03:33 * rik frowns. 00:03:33 ]]] 00:03:48 Hey! 00:03:54 heh, heh 00:04:29 :) 00:05:33 hey, sbp, if you scroll up, me and AaronSw just had a wonderful off log conversation. you must'nt miss it. 00:05:33 00:05:51 Aww, too bad, he did. 00:06:10 [off] i initially heard "scroll up" as "throw up" ;-) 00:06:19 poor guy. 00:06:38 [off] bug spray for all your wilderness needs. 00:07:31 heh, heh, heh 00:07:51 [off] do they? 00:10:15 GODDAMIT! 00:10:24 the flipping mp3 i finally found is all fucked up. 00:10:31 fraggle rock and ju ju bees! 00:10:33 arrrgh. 00:11:26 tav`` is now known as tav` 00:12:26 to you too, sonny 00:13:41 groan. how can i get 44 emails in five minutes? this is not cool. 00:14:01 easy, i just wrote a simple python script: 00:14:20 i bet you did. 00:14:21 while 1: email('morbus@disobey.com', 'Hello!', 'Congratulations, you've won a free email.') 00:14:32 maybe its all requests for my suck ass eudora randomizer. 00:14:32 .py import smtplib 00:14:33 ImportError: untrusted dynamic module: _socket 00:14:39 i asked for beta testers on a eudora list. 00:14:43 Heh heh heh. 00:14:51 is email a sub, or a built in? 00:14:51 ah. ok. 00:15:01 a sub? 00:15:15 what's a sub? 00:15:31 yeah, you know, its a sandwich 00:15:36 Hmm. 00:16:34 * Morbus is currently listening to 'Schnitzelbank' on Animaniacs's album 'Songs From The Hit TV Series'. 00:16:34 !itunes 00:18:28 AaronSw, did you read louisrosenfield.com's meta data thingy? 00:18:28 i dunno if its on the site - i got it in a mailing. 00:18:54 which one? 00:19:50 [bloug] December 1, 2001: Damning Metadata 00:19:57 yeah 00:20:18 anyone got an good DNS server? 00:21:25 http://home.styx.net/rune/publicdns/intro.html 00:21:32 dunno if that will do any good. had it bookmarked for awhile 00:22:10 oh hey! 00:22:17 i finally found out where i knew robb beal from. 00:22:22 where? 00:22:22 he responded to that osa python thing that i just got to in my email. 00:22:35 oh 00:22:42 he responded to everyone? 00:22:54 to me, at least, yeah 00:23:19 boy, my dns serverice is in a bad mood or something 00:23:38 so is your spell checker, apparently. 00:23:50 it always is 00:23:51 404 http://home.styx.net/rune/publicdns/intro.htmv 00:23:52 .http://home.styx.net/rune/publicdns/intro.htm 00:23:53 404 Not Found Not Found The requested URL /rune/publicdns/intro.htm was not found on this server. Apache/1.3.20 Server at home.styx.net Port 80 00:24:19 Ooh, they really have a nice new design, don't they? 00:24:31 uh. yeah. its there :) 00:24:32 I actually meant DNS server as in the resolver, not hosting, sense 00:28:09 wtf? 00:28:16 all these mp3s seem to be broken 00:28:26 can someone leech an mp3 from disobey and lemme know if it comes out messed up? 00:28:32 anon ftp /pub is fine. 00:29:10 disobey has free mp3s? 00:30:26 at least, until i remove them as i dl them 00:31:26 they play fine, other than not being my tastes in music 00:31:35 which one did you dl? 00:31:42 try grabbing sp - eyes of a child 00:31:42 my\ life\ with\ the\ thrill\ kill\ kult\ -\ The\ Untouchable\ Class.mp3 00:31:49 i just grbbed that now, and it was all messed up 00:32:10 sounds like a messed up song to begin with 00:32:16 :-) 00:32:16 heh, heh. 00:32:28 tkk is, yeah, but south park is "normal" 00:33:04 plays fine for me 00:33:08 wtf?! 00:33:10 sigh. 00:33:15 great, netfinder is screwed somewhoe. 00:34:33 i just used wget 00:34:56 lemme try that. 00:35:08 yeah, but nf has worked before for me. 00:35:11 hmz. 00:36:43 * Morbus is currently listening to 'Shoot the Mac-10' on EBN's album 'Telecommunication Breakdown'. 00:36:43 !itunes 00:38:55 yeah, goddamit, yer write. 00:38:55 right, rather. 00:39:01 stupid netfinder. 00:39:01 great, just great. 00:39:01 argh 00:39:30 poor Morbus 00:39:55 yeah, cos, see, it does suck 00:39:55 i deleted two files that i thought were messed up. 00:40:04 they're still on my work machine, but now i can't burn the cd tonight. 00:40:11 sigh. woe is me. 00:40:34 Ouch. 00:42:13 lol! 00:42:19 "file download options > always as text" 00:42:25 stupid flipping ftp program 00:42:51 lol 00:44:23 @ http://www.oreilly.com/ask_tim/ 00:44:27 A: www.oreilly.com -- Ask Tim! from AaronSw 00:44:42 A:|Tim O'Reilly on Books for a Younger Audience 00:44:43 titled item A 00:44:48 A::If only he had a permalink... 00:44:48 commented item A 00:45:37 bbl, dinner 00:57:38 Morbus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:58:42 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds) 01:03:47 tansaku has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 01:11:36 tansaku (~sam@n146-204.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack 01:17:01 sbp (~sean@m580-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:24:38 * sbp gets LibWWW 01:24:44 could it *be* any more slow? 01:25:20 Heh. 01:25:52 Those stupid W3C servers mirrored in 15 countries! 01:26:03 Why are you grabbing LibWWW? 01:26:05 yeah, it's a disgrace 01:26:20 PUT doesn't seem to work without it. Grpgrpgprgpgh 01:26:38 What sort of PUT? 01:26:45 I've found cURL to be the best PUT tool. 01:29:31 .google cURL PUT 01:29:33 cURL PUT: http://curl.haxx.se/mail/lib-2001-06/0026.html 01:29:48 .google cURL HTTP PUT 01:29:49 cURL HTTP PUT: http://curl.haxx.se 01:30:44 that's it 01:30:58 see also http://logicerror.com/curl for instructions on PUTing to W3C website 01:37:55 heh, heh:- 01:37:58 [[[ 01:37:58 ooh, LibWWW is done 01:37:58 ooh, it's the wrong version. Ooh, I'm stupid 01:37:58 ]]] 01:38:09 where was that to? 01:41:34 w3c#er, eh? 01:41:57 eyp 01:41:59 eyp? 01:42:00 yep 01:45:29 Apple Developer tools are out: ftp://imercury1.apple.com/Mac_OS_X/Dec01MacOSX10.1DeveloperTools/macbinary-segments/ 01:45:32 Where's morby? 01:46:48 Just wondering that 01:46:51 I miss my minion 01:55:09 @ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Nov/0143 01:55:12 B: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Nov/0143 from AaronSw 01:55:49 B:|Dan Connolly benefits of supplementary IRC during telecons 01:55:51 titled item B 01:58:20 @ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Dec/0002.html 01:58:22 C: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Dec/0002.html from AaronSw 01:58:31 C:|DaimlerChrysler Web Ontology Use Cases 01:58:32 titled item C 02:01:50 In an email, I write: 02:01:50 """ 02:01:52 Just as the supposed productivity advances over the past few years have made lives only busier, it seems you paint Semantic Web technology as another step in the corporate technology arms race. Which, I guess in a way (as much as it saddens me to think so), it is. 02:01:55 """ 02:02:37 "Let's hope this one turns out pretty darn good, huh?" 02:03:01 - I'm Down, Beatles, Anthology 2, Disc 1 02:06:40 Jim Hendler: "Suspct you're likely to be on the wrong side of the dollat curve on the SemWeb" 02:06:48 Me: "And I can't tell you how thankful I am for that!" 02:09:00 s/dollat/dollar/ ? 02:09:06 Yeah. 02:09:17 But that's not what he wrote. ;-) 02:09:22 Being on the right side of the dollar curve is lame 02:09:36 selling your soul for TEH MONEYS!!! 02:09:45 Exactly. 02:11:58 Of course, that's why I'm not working at a couple of jobs. 02:12:19 Because they had that nasty soul-stealing bit in the job description that wasn't there when I started work. 02:12:56 i.e. hiring me to code linux test suites for embedded platforms, then telling me after I started "Oh, well we want you to write up this VB stuff for us" 02:13:09 "Yeah, the linux stuff probably won't happen for another 6 to 9 months" 02:13:15 Heh heh heh. 02:13:27 So needless to say I quit that hellhole after a couple months. 02:13:33 Still pisses me off. 02:13:56 They didn't even give me a proper cubicle, I was at a 60" desk in the middle of a well-trafficed hallway 02:13:57 ugh 02:14:44 Man, that sucks. 02:15:08 Yeah, it was horrid. My wrist pain even started coming back because my desk wasn't the right height even. 02:15:24 Luckily I got out of there and over to this job.. I'm very happy where I work now 02:15:25 which just rules 02:15:32 well that's good 02:15:34 best job I've had ever, really 02:15:35 yeah 02:15:48 my boss just told the CEO not to talk to me, lol 02:15:54 my boss is just the coolest 02:15:54 Heh heh heh. 02:16:27 "Look, if you keep pestering him it's just going to make everything take longer. Don't talk to him- just ask me if you have questions. Aaron keeps me informed of what's going on" 02:16:32 hehe 02:16:38 Heh heh heh. 02:16:45 he deflects lots of things, he actually realizes that it's part of his job 02:16:50 unlike virtually every other boss I've had 02:16:59 wow, nice 02:17:00 who just acts as an amplifier for idiotic upper management 02:17:27 yeah, i've always thought managers were meant to be shields, not megaphones 02:17:39 LOOK THE VP NEEDS THIS NOW!!! NOW NOW NOW!!! He should have put in a request two weeks ago, everybody knows about that rule. I DON'T CARE DO IT NOW 02:17:53 HELLO HOW'S IT COMING? IS THIS EVER GOING TO GET DONE? HURRY!!! 02:17:58 lol 02:18:14 Yes, that's what they're supposed to do... but 99% of them don't realize that's what their job is really. 02:18:24 They think their job is to tell mgmt YES!!! to everything 02:18:36 yeah 02:18:37 When in reality their job is to help you do your job, which means deflecting all upper mgmt 02:18:53 exactly 02:18:55 and explaining things that upper mgmt doesn't understand persuasively so that IT dept gets their way 02:18:56 hehe 02:19:10 heh heh heh 02:20:02 Well we got our fancy schmancy $150k phone system 02:20:06 so my boss must be doing something right 02:20:07 hehe 02:20:58 [[[ 02:20:58 The first W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG) election 02:20:58 closed on 28 November 2001. W3C plans to announce the final 02:20:58 results on Tuesday 11 December 2001. 02:20:59 ]]] 02:21:13 Ian is a master of suspense. 02:21:23 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2001Dec/0001 02:21:24 I bet he studied Hitchcock in the Purple Crayon. 02:21:35 It was Janet Daly who wrote the message 02:21:57 Hmm, I must have missed that message 02:22:24 oh, it's recent. 02:22:36 yeah, I just got it 02:26:48 xena has quit () 02:27:18 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:39:04 GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack 02:40:44 # Hmm, what? 02:40:49 # Just in generality 02:40:50 lol 02:41:03 How closely does the bot watch for hash marks? 02:41:12 Only at the beginning of a line. 02:41:33 so, y'know, thanks for pasting private stuff into the logs :-) 02:41:46 *g* 02:45:01 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 02:45:47 sbp (~sean@m635-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:01:59 Aaron, why are you not on #rdfig anymore? 03:02:12 i'm curring down on irc, remember? 03:02:21 why? 03:02:32 err cutting 03:02:39 'cuz it's a time chewer-upper 03:02:51 what, you mean like now? :-) 03:03:05 heh heh 03:03:24 you're right, of course... but still, it's nice to be able to scribble things down 03:03:29 Indeed. 03:03:42 Feel free to ask me to join a channel where Interesting Things are happening. 03:04:16 will do 03:04:29 hey AaronSw - interesting things are happening in #warez 03:04:45 Sorry, i'm only up for Interesting Things. 03:04:50 case-sensitive 03:04:57 heh, heh: #warez Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable 03:05:17 shhhhhyyyyyyyyeeeeeeahhhhh, right! 03:05:40 what'd you do to it, GabeW 03:08:21 yeah, Gabe. Come on, admit it. Own up. Speak own. Come clean. Do the Mumbo. Er... scratch that last one 03:08:31 s/own/out/ 03:08:38 lol 03:09:04 carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: Admit it. Come clean. Do the Mumbo 03:09:37 all your #warez are belong to us 03:10:19 BTW: I know it's not a dance, but it sure does sound like one 03:11:01 close to rumba, I guess 03:14:59 tav (~tav@host217-34-77-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 03:29:08 what's the opposite of listening? 03:29:23 ~listening 03:29:25 !listening 03:29:38 ha ha 03:29:38 ^listening 03:30:27 putting wax in your ears 03:31:17 "argument by putting wax in your ears" -- I like it 03:37:34 emigrating, joining a space program to a planetary body with no atmosphere, rocketing off, and then burying your head in the ground with your fingers in your ears and screaming "nur nur nur, I'm not listening" 03:38:21 Dan, in the words of Sean B. Palmer, I can only call this "argument by emigrating, joining a space program to a planetary body with no atmosphere, rocketing off, and then burying your head in the ground with your fingers in your ears and screaming 'nur nur nur, I'm not listening'". 03:38:33 lol 03:39:02 perfact 03:39:11 s/perfact/perfect/ 03:39:27 heh, "perfact" is a kind of self-contradiction, isn't it? 03:39:33 heh 03:40:24 I want to put that in my .sig really 03:40:28 I think I shall close with "Denial is more than just a river in Egypt." 03:40:37 What's this letter all about? 03:40:43 rdfms-fragments 03:41:01 oh, no! I gave you decent ammo in a battle you shouldn't win 03:41:09 lol 03:41:41 So the forces of entropy and he-who-has-the-gold-makes-the-rules should win? 03:42:13 Of course not, they usually use. Er... lose 03:42:30 And I'm trying to defeat them again. 03:42:45 In that case, just follow the Tao 03:42:51 The W3C is basically saying, "Who cares about consensus and the IETF? I like it this way!" 03:43:12 carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: Who cares about consensus and the IETF? I like it this way! 03:46:44 I like using fragURIs in RDF. It's homely, it makes sense according to the MT, and nuts to everyone else. We've squirreled around collecting namespaces with trailing hashes enough for it not be be a bother anymore. We're stocked up for winter 03:47:40 That's fine if you're a hermit squirrel that lives in the tree. 03:47:47 Is that what RDF wants to be? 03:47:57 BTW, if you're really going to add my salvo to your email, please not that I agree with Dan :-) 03:48:27 I always compare the body to which RDF aspires to to a hermit squirrel, so yeah. Sure 03:48:40 s/to to/to be to be/ 03:48:53 You want to be the hermit squirrel that insists on speaking Esperanto but roated 13 letters? 03:48:56 to be to be to be shoo wop wop 03:49:04 err rotated. 03:50:03 I dunno. You're getting a bit too philisophical for my liking. All I know is that I like my nuts warm, and they're warmest when there are loads of other nuts around. fragURIs collect together 03:50:31 Exactly. 03:50:38 And they happen to be far in the minority. 03:50:49 not on the Semantic Web 03:51:00 I suppose you can be standoffish and insist on being the elitist squirrells. 03:51:14 But the Semantic Web is puny in comparison to the Web! 03:51:30 W3C keeps insisting that they're extending the Web, not replacing it. 03:51:34 Well, which is it? 03:52:28 we are extending it, by saying "use FragIDs too". And it's not as if they're not used on the Web as it is, so you can't weasel (changing animals) your way out of that one 03:52:38 lol 03:52:49 :-) 03:53:31 OK, when I said extending the web I thought it was implicit that I meant that in a backwards-compatible way. 03:53:38 This is _not_ backwards-compatible. 03:57:02 alright Aaron, whatever :-) 03:57:29 Ha! I got you there. 03:57:42 how do you think so? 03:57:47 You gave up. 03:58:06 no, I just decided that your argument reached new levels of absurdity, and decided to humour you 03:58:10 lol 03:58:23 * sbp loves these arguments 03:58:41 I thought I was being perfectly reasonable. 03:58:50 You basically have given into the gist of my argument. 03:59:19 The only difference now is whether to do anything about this problem. 03:59:28 "given into"? 03:59:51 Well, you no longer make the argument that there's no issue. 04:02:00 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m353-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:02:17 sbp (~sean@m353-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:04:10 I just can't tell where anything breaks. It's weird to me that you keep saying something's broken 04:04:44 GabeW has quit () 04:05:21 ah, here's the difference:- 04:05:22 [[[ 04:05:22 Exactly. I'm not sure about you, but I consider the Web in the network, not 04:05:22 in the client. 04:05:23 ]]] 04:05:33 I consider it be a blend of both 04:06:03 I agree it's weighted a lot towards the network, but the network is nothing without clients (and vice versa) 04:06:18 Well, yeah. 04:06:31 But does the Web, support Flash? Or does it only support the transport of Flash? 04:07:18 heh, heh:- 04:07:19 [[[ 04:07:20 [ This is not meant to imply Sean B. Palmer's position on either side of the 04:07:20 issue. ] 04:07:20 ]]] 04:07:35 I wish I didn't have to put that in. ;-) 04:08:00 heh, heh 04:08:50 Hmm... interesting question. It supports anything, I would say, within the bounds of it's agreed-upon rules, the consensus items 04:09:08 So the Web makes toast too? 04:09:16 It can do, yes! 04:09:26 wow 04:09:38 TOAST toast://infomesh.net/my-toaster 04:10:02 Well, sure it can send the commands! 04:10:09 But I wouldn't say that it makes toast. 04:11:31 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m364-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com))) 04:11:39 SeanP (~sean@m364-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:11:43 SeanP has quit (Remote closed the connection) 04:11:54 sbp (~sean@m364-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:11:55 I'm not sure that it matters so much tho. 04:12:49 carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: The Web: Terminals, Text, and Toast 04:13:02 * AaronSw smiles somewhat 04:13:19 This has gotten me in a rather sour mood. 04:13:19 ooh, the lowest grade of laughter yet :-) 04:13:25 Heh. 04:13:46 no: Heh is now the second lowest 04:13:57 * AaronSw smiles 04:14:08 Aw, damnit 04:14:43 O.K. - twitches, grins, smiles somewhat, smiles, Heh, heh heh, heh heh heh, lol, lol!, LOL, LOL! 04:14:44 * AaronSw considers laughing, but can't quite make it. 04:15:00 laughs is surely equivalent to heh, heh 04:15:07 or possibly heh, heh, heh 04:15:12 * AaronSw thinks grins are more than smiling somewhat. 04:15:23 I think laughing is equivalent to lol. 04:15:25 ooh, you're right 04:15:31 on both accounts 04:15:44 Thanks. 04:15:58 I can't figure out what http://www.w3.org/2000/04/maillog2rdf/imap_sort.py does. 04:16:16 x twitches, x smiles somewhat, x grins, x smiles, Heh, heh heh, heh heh heh, lol/x laughs, lol!, LOL, LOL!, x pisses self 04:16:17 SyntaxError: invalid syntax 04:16:46 Ah, this is what I want: http://www.w3.org/2000/04/maillog2rdf/mid_proxy.py 04:17:02 Dan's on a great rant here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-logic/2000Nov/0043.html 04:17:53 heh, he's right. It is annoying 04:18:28 It is indeed. 04:20:11 oh, I love that space quote... 04:21:37 On rdfcore: "Re: how a perl programmer might do datatypes in RDF" 04:22:08 what's that all about? 04:22:37 Seems about as relevant as "How a greengrocer would design a rocket ship" 04:23:27 giggle. Go on 04:23:37 oh, giggle! Forgot that one... Hmm... 04:23:56 equates with "heh, heh, heh" 04:26:02 Hmm... it should be possible to come up with an N3 to NTriples parser *in* N3 now. Cool stuff 04:26:17 I want it to be able to parse NTriples to N3, though 04:27:56 The perl programmer thread is quite interesting, IMO. 04:27:56 It's my favorite proposal, yet. 04:27:56 It's like: well, since RDF screwed up hear, we should borrow from the kings of screwed up designs! 04:27:56