IRC log of swhack on 2001-12-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:32 [sbp]

I like the latter sentence

00:01:08 [sbp]

finish it: "would like to cook you an omlette surprise"

00:01:15 [Morbus]

heh.

00:01:23 [Morbus]

yeah, i need something. sheesh.

00:01:53 [Morbus]

he would love to give you a fry pan of Intelligence.

00:01:56 [Morbus]

no. that's stupid. bah

00:02:41 [Morbus]

evin Hemenway, better known as Morbus Iff, is the creator of <a href="http://www.disobey.com/">disobey.com</a>, which bills itself as "content for the discontented". Publisher and developer of more home cooking than you could ever imagine, he'd love to give you a Fry Pan of Intellect upside the head. Politely, of course. And with love

00:02:43 [Morbus]

how's that

00:03:20 [sbp]

The surprise would be the small singing camel hidden underneath the omlette

00:03:23 [sbp]

s/Fry/Frying/

00:03:29 [sbp]

and you're done. Very good

00:03:48 [Morbus]

asking the mojos in #infoanarchy what they think

00:04:34 [Morbus]

so you think that's good? mmkay.

00:04:39 [Morbus]

no one has responded yet in ia. not good ;)

00:05:00 [sbp]

actually, that's probably the best sign

00:09:55 [Morbus]

heh. man, they're going nuts on teh chumpbot over in #infoanarchy

00:10:00 [Morbus]

<Ash> http://www.frypanofintellect.com/

00:10:00 [Morbus]

<blanubot> A: (Inaccesible URL) http://www.frypanofintellect.com/ from Ash

00:10:00 [Morbus]

<Morbus> heh. that would be a good domain.

00:10:00 [Morbus]

<Ash> A:|Welcome to Morbus's Fry Pan Of Intellect!

00:11:46 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

00:25:22 [dngxor]

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00:25:59 [dngxor]

dngxor (abuse@m83.nationwideinc.com) has joined #swhack

00:31:45 [Morbus]

ping?

00:31:50 [Morbus]

tons of people are ddying with ping timeouts.

00:32:22 [dngxor]

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00:32:24 [dngxor]

dngxor (abuse@m83.nationwideinc.com) has joined #swhack

00:33:15 [sbp]

yeah

00:35:34 [irc.openprojects.net]

Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[~swhack-lo@205.253.219.118] (Ping timeout: 181 seconds))

00:47:30 [logster]

logster (~swhack-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack

00:47:30 [carter.openprojects.net]

topic is: Zooko's pillow

00:47:31 [carter.openprojects.net]

Users on #swhack: logster chumpster dngxor Morbus xena sbp tav oierw` tansaku_sleeping hazmat oierw deltab AaronSw

00:58:35 [sbp]

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00:59:00 [sbp]

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01:04:57 [sbp]

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01:05:35 [TheTick]

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01:05:40 [sbp]

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01:06:06 [sbp]

.google Monty Python fish slapping dance

01:06:07 [xena]

Monty Python fish slapping dance: http://www.montypython.net/scripts/fishslap.php

01:18:21 [AaronSw]

--

01:18:24 [AaronSw]

*** logster has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

01:18:24 [AaronSw]

<sbp> ooh, we can say "fuck" and stuff now!

01:18:24 [AaronSw]

*** chumpster has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

01:18:24 [AaronSw]

<sbp> and type:-

01:18:24 [AaronSw]

<sbp> @ http://www.bollocks.com/

01:18:25 [AaronSw]

<sbp> without fear of some bot thing chumping it!

01:18:27 [Morbus]

see!

01:18:27 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> no, AaronSw's just gonna be nazi and reinvent history. sheehs.

01:18:29 [AaronSw]

<sbp> lol

01:18:31 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> dammit. i keep forgeting about nazi.

01:18:33 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> sigh. i use it so often as a generic word for evil, that i keep forgetting his ... ... culture, i suppose.

01:18:35 [sbp]

damn, you were right

01:18:36 [AaronSw]

<deltab> Notice: A: http://www.bollocks.com/ from sbp

01:18:37 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> lol.

01:18:41 [AaronSw]

<sbp> heh, heh, heh

01:18:44 [AaronSw]

<sbp> culture: yeah, I notices

01:18:46 [AaronSw]

<sbp> s/notices/noticed/

01:18:47 [AaronSw]

<sbp> xena, say something funny

01:18:49 [AaronSw]

<sbp> .commands

01:18:51 [AaronSw]

<xena> valid commands:

01:18:54 [AaronSw]

<xena> - +mask, -mask, access, acronym, act, babel, billennium, c2f, change, commands

01:18:55 [AaronSw]

<xena> - ctcp, date, dict, die, dns, dtrt, e, email, excuse, f2c

01:18:57 [AaronSw]

<xena> - flight, foldoc, fortune, google, help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon, join

01:19:00 [AaronSw]

<xena> - login, masks, modules, msg, news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer, part

01:19:02 [AaronSw]

<xena> - pig latin, plexname, poker, quit, quote, raw, register, rfc, rfc2, rot13

01:19:03 [AaronSw]

<xena> - search, seen, server, servers, spell, status, symbol for, time, translate, unixtime

01:19:06 [AaronSw]

<xena> - users, weather, weather2, webster, when did, whois, wn, zope commands

01:19:07 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> .poker

01:19:09 [AaronSw]

<xena> usage: poker <game-type> <dealer> <players>

01:19:11 [AaronSw]

<xena> - starts a new game of poker

01:19:13 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> .poker 5card sbp morbus sbp

01:19:16 [AaronSw]

<sbp> .jargon blargh

01:19:17 [AaronSw]

<xena> welcome to the wonderful world of poker!

01:19:19 [TheTick]

.fortune

01:19:19 [AaronSw]

<sbp> heh, neat

01:19:19 [xena]

Free our comrades.

01:19:21 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> .poker deal, dammit!

01:19:23 [TheTick]

.fortune -o

01:19:23 [AaronSw]

<xena> welcome to the wonderful world of poker!

01:19:24 [xena]

This concerns everyone.

01:19:26 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> yeah, the wonderful world is pretty weak.

01:19:27 [TheTick]

lol

01:19:27 [AaronSw]

<sbp> ooh

01:19:29 [AaronSw]

<sbp> .poker help

01:19:31 [AaronSw]

<xena> welcome to the wonderful world of poker!

01:19:34 [AaronSw]

<sbp> Gmrpgmrpmgrgh

01:19:36 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> .ram

01:19:38 [AaronSw]

<Morbus> .poker gametype help

01:19:40 [AaronSw]

<xena> welcome to the wonderful world of poker!

01:19:41 [AaronSw]

--

01:19:43 [AaronSw]

mwahaha

01:19:44 [sbp]

Are you just about finished violating our privacy now? Thanks

01:19:44 [TheTick]

lol AaronSw

01:19:47 [TheTick]

* TheTick is cracking up

01:19:56 [TheTick]

sbp: Hey, you sent those packets over the network

01:19:57 [AaronSw]

Any time, guys.

01:20:05 [Morbus]

don't call me a guy!

01:20:09 [sbp]

lol

01:20:13 [Morbus]

from now on, i'll be your InfoRapeDoll.

01:20:13 [AaronSw]

anytime, guys and ms. morbus.

01:20:15 [TheTick]

the wonderful world is pretty weak.

01:20:15 [TheTick]

lol

01:20:25 [sbp]

lol @ InfoRapeDoll

01:20:34 [AaronSw]

it's because .poker is a Zope function

01:20:36 [AaronSw]

that's why it sucks

01:20:51 [AaronSw]

that's what t*v says anyway

01:21:05 [AaronSw]

* = a

01:22:19 [TheTick]

I can't believe there's no -o option for fortune :(

01:22:21 [TheTick]

.fortune -o

01:22:22 [xena]

You can't buy happiness. Steal it.

01:22:23 [TheTick]

.fortune -o

01:22:24 [xena]

Be realistic, demand the impossible.

01:22:27 [TheTick]

see?

01:22:27 [TheTick]

grr!

01:22:53 [AaronSw]

what's -o do?

01:22:58 [kmacleod]

kmacleod (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack

01:23:03 [sbp]

using zope is a nasty tavtick

01:23:11 [sbp]

Hi there Ken

01:23:14 [kmacleod]

hey

01:23:18 [Morbus]

hey ken

01:23:31 [AaronSw]

sbp, that'll beep him, you got to say octave

01:23:35 [AaronSw]

hey ken

01:25:04 [sbp]

I wonder if you could make tav's computer play a tune by flooding a channel with the word "tav"?

01:25:28 [Morbus]

like that dot matrix guy? who made a whole cd using dot matrix printer noises?

01:25:31 [kmacleod]

* kmacleod notes, out of context, that most .zip users are really bad with common convention of archive building, in particular using the name of the archive as the name of the (only) top-level directory

01:25:59 [AaronSw]

very true.

01:26:05 [kmacleod]

* kmacleod wrote firmware for dot matwix printers

01:26:06 [sbp]

yeah...

01:26:14 [AaronSw]

sbp, heh heh

01:26:41 [AaronSw]

i'm always annoted with .zip files like that, ken. i've made a special safety airlock for them

01:26:56 [AaronSw]

s/airlock/"airlock"/

01:27:38 [kmacleod]

right. by comparison, .tar.gz seem to be up to around 95% or better, compared to the early days (circa the mid-80s)

01:28:27 [AaronSw]

Hm, i've never seen a broken .tar.gz

01:29:05 [sbp]

When I make .tar.gz files, it puts too much padding on them. Dunno what's going on there, but everything complains about it

01:29:07 [kmacleod]

it's more common on non-source-code .tar.gzs, like doc projects

01:29:25 [AaronSw]

ah, makes sense

01:29:39 [AaronSw]

Dave Earnest: "I've used our technologies to test the Blogspace Central website for shopping safety, security, usability, and performance." That must've been easy, since we don't sell anything!

01:30:14 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw is getting a lot of @home bounces...

01:30:23 [kmacleod]

I suspect that the reason is that most .zips are made on windows/mac using GUI tools and many .tar.gzs are done on the command line, and many are done by dist scripts

01:31:08 [Morbus]

Stuffit has a DropTar now that creates tar.gz

01:31:15 [Morbus]

although they end with .tgz instead

01:32:00 [AaronSw]

sbp, looks like plex is going with sha512

01:32:25 [carter.openprojects.net]

carter.openprojects.net has changed the topic to: We're building a decentralized SHA512 -> plaintext service. Watch out!

01:32:37 [sbp]

heh, heh, hooray!

01:36:05 [AaronSw]

perhaps we should stick with sha1024 just to be safe ;-)

01:36:19 [sbp]

No, we should stick with 10^80 :-)

01:36:59 [sbp]

* sbp wonders if Aaron caught that conversation

01:37:38 [AaronSw]

where was it?

01:37:46 [sbp]

on #plex

01:38:21 [AaronSw]

hmm

01:38:51 [sbp]

y'know I miss having a decent logger in other channels

01:38:58 [AaronSw]

i use xena

01:39:05 [AaronSw]

but i can't find this

01:39:09 [AaronSw]

conversation.

01:39:31 [AaronSw]

watching the xena log is so funny.

01:40:37 [AaronSw]

10^ returns nothing

01:40:48 [sbp]

10\^

01:40:56 [AaronSw]

nope

01:40:59 [AaronSw]

not in #plex

01:41:01 [sbp]

weird

01:41:03 [AaronSw]

perhaps your thinking of #rdfig

01:41:12 [AaronSw]

oierw, we found sha512 module for python

01:41:13 [sbp]

Well, I'm pretty sure we had the conversation

01:41:37 [AaronSw]

i believe you

01:42:07 [AaronSw]

from http://philosophysw.com/software/

01:42:39 [AaronSw]

hmm, python is using rfc822 format for their metadata

01:42:52 [AaronSw]

perhaps we can convince them of backwards-colon n3

01:43:39 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

01:43:56 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m802-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

01:44:22 [sbp]

told ya:-

01:44:25 [sbp]

[[[

01:44:26 [sbp]

Session Start: Mon Dec 03 03:24:10 2001

01:44:28 [sbp]

*** Now talking in #plex

01:44:30 [sbp]

]]]

01:44:37 [kmacleod]

* kmacleod . o O ( heh, always mucking up the simple stuff )

01:44:51 [AaronSw]

kmacleod, what was that in reference to?

01:44:58 [AaronSw]

my n3 suggestion? ;)

01:44:58 [sbp]

[[[

01:44:59 [sbp]

<oierw> sha256's, being 256 bits, is at 2**128 plaintexts

01:44:59 [sbp]

<oierw> i wouldn't be opposed to sha320 (or whatever it's called)

01:44:59 [sbp]

<sbp> 2^128? 3.4028236692093846346337460743177e+38

01:44:59 [sbp]

<sbp> Let's go to 10^80... how good a hash would we need for that?

01:44:59 [sbp]

<oierw> you want 10**80 plaintexts to have a 50% chance of a single hit?

01:45:02 [sbp]

<sbp> yes, please

01:45:02 [kmacleod]

switching from rfc822 to n3

01:45:03 [sbp]

* oierw thinks you are crazy

01:45:05 [sbp]

]]]

01:45:12 [AaronSw]

heh heh, thought so

01:45:23 [AaronSw]

namespaces are so simple!

01:45:27 [AaronSw]

all they'd have to do is add

01:45:28 [Morbus]

hey, dngxor, POE .17 seems to work fine on MacPerl 5.6.1

01:45:36 [AaronSw]

@prefix : <http://python.org/metadata/1.0/> .

01:45:43 [AaronSw]

it's as simple as metadata-version

01:45:46 [Morbus]

dngxor: ran into the same Makefile.mk I told you about, but other than that, running the tutorial-chat.perl script seems fine.

01:46:32 [kmacleod]

yes, but then the only way to read it would be to use an n3 parser which, IMO, is more trouble than it's worth

01:46:49 [AaronSw]

hmm

01:46:50 [dngxor]

woot!

01:46:55 [AaronSw]

weird, sbp -- it's not in the logs

01:46:55 [Morbus]

:)

01:47:13 [kmacleod]

rdf has yet to impress me with its practicality

01:47:14 [Morbus]

gonna test PoCo::IRC in a second hee.

01:47:46 [sbp]

practiality: you wanna try Jim Ley's EARL client :-)

01:47:53 [sbp]

but I agree in general

01:49:40 [AaronSw]

sbp, oh, your conversation must not have been relayed

01:49:53 [AaronSw]

please paste it or something in if that happens

01:50:07 [kmacleod]

EARL?

01:50:45 [sbp]

how am I supposed to know if it's been relayed or not?

01:50:54 [sbp]

EARL - http://www.w3.org/2001/03/earl/

01:50:58 [sbp]

Work in progress...

01:52:16 [AaronSw]

sbp, umm, well i started that day by saying that relaying "has a bad bug" and would be broken for a while according to xena's logs

01:52:30 [AaronSw]

i'm reviewing the logs now

01:52:36 [AaronSw]

v. interesting discussion

01:52:48 [AaronSw]

oierw, are signatures essential to that level for some reason?

01:52:49 [Morbus]

dngxor, on the POE "software that uses it" page, the Wang client doesn't resolve, but you can find a copy at archive.org

01:56:08 [AaronSw]

sbp, my RDFSink -> RDFapi only works for rdf sink parsers (N3, RDFXML, etc.) not cwm itself

01:56:12 [kmacleod]

where's the EARL client at?

01:56:21 [AaronSw]

.google jim ley earl client

01:56:22 [xena]

jim ley earl client: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-annotation/2001JulDec/0033.html

01:57:14 [kmacleod]

already been there :), its not reffed in that msg :(

01:57:20 [AaronSw]

hmm

01:57:40 [kmacleod]

er, it's reffered to as an idea to be implemented

01:57:45 [AaronSw]

ah

01:57:46 [AaronSw]

sbp?

01:58:22 [sbp]

Hi

01:58:36 [sbp]

dunno. Try w3c-wai-er-ig archives

01:59:10 [sbp]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-er-ig/2001Nov/0007

01:59:59 [Morbus]

hmm, dngxor: did you code PoCoIRC? in 5.6.1b2 MacPerl, the Filter-iRC.pm and Filter-CTCP never get put in the right place.

02:00:08 [Anical]

Anical (~Anical@s84.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

02:00:16 [sbp]

Bot!

02:00:17 [Morbus]

yeah, once I fixed the location, worked fine.

02:00:22 [Morbus]

roll 3d6

02:00:23 [Anical]

Morbus: You rolled a 12 (3 + 5 + 4)

02:00:32 [Anical]

Anical has quit (Remote closed the connection)

02:01:06 [sbp]

where's the sink?

02:01:14 [AaronSw]

in what sense?

02:01:33 [sbp]

your RDFSink

02:02:15 [AaronSw]

hmm, i thought it was in CVS...

02:02:36 [sbp]

oh, you're right. Sorry

02:02:43 [AaronSw]

what's it called?

02:02:44 [AaronSw]

oh, kitchen

02:08:58 [AaronSw]

Ooh, AES is approved: http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/g01-111.htm

02:10:50 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw notes that NIST's .zip files don't follow proper compression ettiquette.

02:11:01 [kmacleod]

see!

02:11:09 [AaronSw]

yep

02:11:34 [AaronSw]

but i knew they wouldn't ahead of time ;)

02:13:27 [Morbus]

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02:15:48 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

02:16:13 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m925-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

02:30:23 [kmacleod]

ttyl

02:30:23 [kmacleod]

kmacleod has quit ("Leaving")

02:33:27 [sbp]

Hi Mr. Plex, give me a file, I've got a fine hash for you

02:33:35 [AaronSw]

You do?

02:33:38 [AaronSw]

What is it?

02:33:51 [sbp]

No, ya have ta sing it

02:34:18 [AaronSw]

Well bollocks to that then.

02:34:28 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw looks for an MP3 player that runs backwards.

02:35:19 [sbp]

heh, my essays are somewhere between absurd, weird, funny, uninteresting, and just plain nutty

02:35:23 [sbp]

you said bollocks!

02:35:33 [AaronSw]

I'm practicing for my trip!

02:35:37 [sbp]

grep 1-10 AaronSw.*bollocks

02:35:40 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

02:36:03 [sbp]

logster, grep 1-10 AaronSw.*bollocks

02:36:14 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 11 answers for 'AaronSw.*bollocks' (showing 1...10)

02:36:15 [logster]

1) 2001-12-06 02:35:37 <sbp> grep 1-10 AaronSw.*bollocks

02:36:16 [logster]

2) 2001-12-06 02:34:18 <AaronSw> Well bollocks to that then.

02:36:17 [logster]

3) 2001-12-06 01:18:36 <AaronSw> <deltab> Notice: A: http://www.bollocks.com/ from sbp

02:36:18 [logster]

4) 2001-12-06 01:18:24 <AaronSw> <sbp> @ http://www.bollocks.com/

02:36:19 [logster]

5) 2001-11-23 14:36:59 <AaronSw> .wn arse-bollocks

02:36:20 [logster]

6) 2001-11-23 14:36:36 <AaronSw> xena should say something like "arse-bollocks not found"

02:36:21 [logster]

7) 2001-11-23 14:36:03 <AaronSw> .wn arse-bollocks

02:36:22 [logster]

8) 2001-10-26 04:03:31 <AaronSw> "the bollocks of things"?

02:36:23 [logster]

9) 2001-10-14 03:51:38 <AaronSw> If people want to point folks to a .bollocks version, they can feel free to

02:36:24 [logster]

10) 2001-10-14 03:50:40 <AaronSw> Well, they're persistent in that if a .bollocks format exists, you will get it

02:36:25 [sbp]

it takes me a while...

02:36:25 [AaronSw]

blast it

02:36:28 [AaronSw]

i thought you'd never notice

02:36:39 [sbp]

heh, but I did :-)

02:37:11 [sbp]

I thought I'd written it but it had come up with the wrong name, or something... but then I decided, no! He must have written it

02:37:31 [tansaku_sleeping]

tansaku_sleeping is now known as tansaku

02:38:08 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

02:38:14 [sbp]

And now it's logged for the world to discover. Years from now when you go for that really important job interview, they'll be like, "yo, A-boy, what's this dissin' you been doin' in #swhack then, me brother? MAn, yo is outta this job before you even started, innit?"

02:38:24 [AaronSw]

lol

02:38:36 [AaronSw]

that was quite funny.

02:38:39 [sbp]

thank you

02:39:29 [AaronSw]

Hmm, that's too bad: "As far as we know, SoundPlay is the only application in the world that can play MPEG audio backwards. "

02:39:37 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

02:39:37 [AaronSw]

And it's for BeOS!

02:39:48 [AaronSw]

Hmm, have to break out the old BeBox, I guess.

02:39:50 [sbp]

just convert it to *.wav, reverse it, and then convert it back again

02:40:01 [AaronSw]

Reverse it with what?

02:40:01 [AaronSw]

Ben's into the "Paul is Dead" conspiracy.

02:40:03 [sbp]

CoolEdit can do it, I'll bet

02:40:07 [sbp]

ah, right

02:40:24 [deltab]

AaronSw: at the frame level?

02:40:30 [sbp]

well, I can reverse it and send it if you want, but I'm quite sure that Paul is alive: I saw him on T.V. the other day

02:40:42 [AaronSw]

Ben thinks it's an actor.

02:40:43 [AaronSw]

does audio have frames?

02:40:51 [deltab]

mp3 does

02:40:53 [AaronSw]

I assume at the finest granularity possible...

02:41:07 [sbp]

WAV has little deeley points

02:41:08 [deltab]

so does cdda (70 per second)

02:41:21 [AaronSw]

Anyway, do you know a tool to reverse them, deltab?

02:41:49 [GabeW]

GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack

02:42:00 [sbp]

otherwise known as samples

02:42:19 [AaronSw]

lo GabeW

02:42:31 [deltab]

no, but mpg123 can play them at different speeds, by repeating and dropping frames

02:42:34 [GabeW]

lo

02:42:57 [AaronSw]

Gabester, do you know how to play audio files backward, my man?

02:43:12 [sbp]

I can play audio files backward! I can!

02:43:22 [sbp]

backwards, even

02:43:22 [AaronSw]

Yeah, but can you send them to me?

02:43:26 [sbp]

yes!

02:43:30 [AaronSw]

Oooh.

02:43:35 [GabeW]

Can't you convert into waves and use some perl script or something to reverse the bytes?

02:43:35 [AaronSw]

Ok, I want "I am the walrus" backwards.

02:43:52 [sbp]

O.K., fine

02:44:54 [GabeW]

* GabeW doesn't know what he just walked into

02:45:05 [GabeW]

* GabeW had a 6 hour meeting today and has another tomorrow

02:45:08 [AaronSw]

You just walked into #swhack

02:45:13 [AaronSw]

Ouch, that doesn't sound like fun.

02:45:26 [sbp]

heh, my latest essay contained a title "Usefulness" - but I had to delete that section after I started putting in sporadic swearing

02:45:41 [sbp]

walking into #swhack?

02:46:00 [GabeW]

I think AaronSw was talking about 12 hours of meetings in two days

02:46:32 [sbp]

me too, but I had to check

02:46:55 [AaronSw]

Me three.

02:47:18 [sbp]

Well, that settles it then. Let's go on a picnic

02:47:21 [AaronSw]

At the shoe store today, I saw a shoe brand called "Me Too" -- I was like, hey, AOL is making shoes?

02:47:36 [sbp]

lol, Aaron

02:47:52 [AaronSw]

;-)

02:48:27 [sbp]

Ugh starting out with a definition... could I *be* any more clichéd? But I *have* to do it. Man, I suck

02:48:54 [AaronSw]

What are you writing, anyway?

02:49:09 [sbp]

An essay on Cognitive Science

02:49:36 [AaronSw]

Ah, that explains it.

02:51:18 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries out his new keyboard

02:51:20 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw tries out his new keyboar

02:51:26 [AaronSw]

632.0

02:51:28 [AaronSw]

0 JF 0ipojtx

02:51:31 [AaronSw]

woif,mvcxUJTP

02:51:31 [sbp]

heh, heh; not all that good it seems

02:51:37 [sbp]

|OI|oiH\oi-riasgsri-g9sr

02:51:38 [AaronSw]

Hmm, no, it's not.

02:51:42 [AaronSw]

089iok6y7,mfcx ='9,MVCZ

02:51:43 [sbp]

:-)

02:51:59 [AaronSw]

The keys are too soft.

02:52:05 [AaronSw]

They don't make the loud clacking noise

02:52:09 [AaronSw]

they fell like jelllo

02:52:17 [AaronSw]

ok. this is starting to really hurt

02:52:21 [sbp]

.;.;.;.;.;'.;'.;'';pkl'dpO`515136`12`1-79090 DO FLOP WIppITY skoobywankflikdobr iojhoofisoaifoij

02:52:23 [AaronSw]

Owwwie!

02:52:32 [sbp]

* sbp should stop doing that

02:52:32 [AaronSw]

boy, that keyboard was painful

02:52:57 [sbp]

mine are too tight, I reckon. They need a bit of WD40, or Neat's Foot Oil

02:53:30 [AaronSw]

Have you flossed it lately?

02:53:43 [sbp]

No; it prefers mouthwash

02:53:59 [AaronSw]

I'd think that'd really damage it.

02:54:11 [sbp]

It says it likes it, but I dunno

02:54:17 [AaronSw]

Martha Steward said to floss your keyboard every 3 months.

02:54:30 [sbp]

Pff, what does she know?

02:54:48 [sbp]

I'll bet she never even had keyboards

02:54:53 [AaronSw]

Apparently that's what the producers thought too, so they hired this guy from HP to say it for her.

02:55:10 [AaronSw]

Strangely enough, he kept hyping the iMac

02:55:12 [sbp]

Interesting stuff

02:55:20 [sbp]

Well, everyone hypes Mac stuff

02:55:25 [AaronSw]

Of course, i heard this all second-hand not watching the show.

02:55:35 [AaronSw]

s/watching/having watched/

02:55:43 [sbp]

well, any information that comes from you *has* to be reliable

02:56:01 [AaronSw]

I do have an impressive track record.

02:56:12 [sbp]

yes, you do

02:56:22 [AaronSw]

Like, I predicted we'd have flying machines by December 2001, and look, we do!

02:56:47 [sbp]

Erm... Aaron: Ginger can't fly. Accept it, and move on... I know it's difficult

02:57:09 [AaronSw]

Ah, but that's where you're wrong!

02:57:14 [sbp]

Of course, I presume you meant personal flying machines that look like hoovers

02:57:19 [AaronSw]

Ginger turns out to be the airplane industry!

02:57:24 [AaronSw]

Airplanes can fly!

02:57:38 [sbp]

but they don't look like Vacuum cleaners

02:57:52 [AaronSw]

irrelevant!

02:58:25 [sbp]

on the contrary, that's the crux of the matter. The essence of flying is in how much your flying device looks like a vacuum cleaner

02:59:33 [AaronSw]

Wow, this is a squished picture: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000059MSD/102-6222478-8304915

03:00:33 [sbp]

neeet

03:02:16 [AaronSw]

Man, I love the foks at Panic.

03:02:25 [AaronSw]

"""

03:02:26 [AaronSw]

How To Contact PanicTM

03:02:26 [AaronSw]

Contact Haiku:

03:02:27 [AaronSw]

This is our low-down

03:02:27 [AaronSw]

for tech support or chit chat.

03:02:27 [AaronSw]

E-mail is best, yes.

03:02:28 [AaronSw]

"""

03:03:02 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

03:03:26 [AaronSw]

Heh, Dave debating with "some Ayn Rand guy".

03:03:29 [sbp]

That Haiku is fun. But their fragments really suck. Learn to write, dimwit

03:04:31 [AaronSw]

heh heh.

03:06:52 [sbp]

* sbp tries to think of a word... something that is non-controversial; self-evident; obvious

03:07:07 [sbp]

.wn obvious

03:07:19 [AaronSw]

.wn xena

03:07:26 [AaronSw]

unauthorized?!

03:07:33 [sbp]

.wn blargh

03:07:35 [AaronSw]

.wn obvious

03:07:36 [xena]

obvious defined as:

03:07:37 [xena]

- adj 1: easily perceived or understood; "obvious errors" [ant: {unobvious}]

03:07:38 [xena]

- 2: easily perceived by the senses or grasped by the mind; "a perceptible sense of expectation in the court"; "an obvious (or palpable) lie" [syn: {perceptible}]

03:07:39 [xena]

- 3: obvious to the eye or mind; "a tower conspicuous at a great distance"; "wore conspicuous neckties"; "made herself conspicuous by her exhibitionistic preening" [syn: {conspicuous}] [ant: {inconspicuous}]

03:07:40 [xena]

- 4: obvious to the eye; "a visible change of expression" [syn: {visible}]

03:07:41 [sbp]

.wn smeg

03:07:54 [sbp]

.wn bugger you then

03:07:55 [xena]

error: unable to define bugger you then

03:07:59 [sbp]

heh, heh

03:08:01 [AaronSw]

heh heh

03:09:15 [sbp]

can it do synonyms?

03:09:20 [sbp]

.commands

03:09:21 [xena]

valid commands:

03:09:21 [xena]

- +mask, -mask, access, acronym, act, babel, billennium, c2f, change, commands

03:09:22 [xena]

- ctcp, date, dict, die, dns, dtrt, e, email, excuse, f2c

03:09:23 [xena]

- flight, foldoc, fortune, google, help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon, join

03:09:24 [xena]

- login, masks, modules, msg, news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer, part

03:09:25 [xena]

- pig latin, plexname, poker, quit, quote, raw, register, rfc, rfc2, rot13

03:09:26 [xena]

- search, seen, server, servers, spell, status, symbol for, time, translate, unixtime

03:09:27 [xena]

- users, weather, weather2, webster, when did, whois, wn, zope commands

03:09:59 [AaronSw]

topic in #esp: "some day xena is going to kill you. until you know that, you are living in denial."

03:10:12 [sbp]

Hmm... I want to use the word obviuity

03:10:39 [sbp]

but it doesn't exist. So therefore, I need to sneak it into the OED

03:10:44 [sbp]

by tomorrow :-)

03:10:56 [AaronSw]

Tell you're teacher it's in the online edition.

03:11:11 [AaronSw]

you're know what i mean ;)

03:11:48 [sbp]

I'm what?

03:12:03 [AaronSw]

:-)

03:12:28 [AaronSw]

You're obvituity.

03:14:20 [AaronSw]

brb

03:14:28 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has quit ("Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.1")

03:14:46 [AaronSw]

AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack

03:14:59 [sbp]

Who said anything about obvituity? It's obviuity

03:15:12 [sbp]

obviousness just doesn't cut it

03:15:19 [AaronSw]

Heh.,

03:15:25 [AaronSw]

Oops, i screwed up.

03:15:26 [AaronSw]

brb again

03:15:31 [sbp]

.google obviuity

03:15:31 [xena]

no results found.

03:15:35 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has quit (Client Quit)

03:15:36 [sbp]

Pff!

03:16:24 [AaronSw]

AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack

03:18:02 [sbp]

"a matter of some obviuity [1]" [...] "[1] They'd love me on alt.adjective.noun.noun.noun - they really would"

03:18:26 [sbp]

alt.adjective.noun.noun.noun? hello? anyone there?

03:18:35 [AaronSw]

Heh.

03:19:00 [sbp]

heh, that's what I get for inventing a new nounal adjective thingy-me-wotsit

03:19:51 [sbp]

verbs? what they?

03:20:45 [AaronSw]

:-)

03:33:44 [AaronSw]

deltab, what's the high byte of 256?

03:35:01 [Morbus]

Morbus (~Morbus@63.173.138.112) has joined #swhack

03:35:48 [Morbus]

ooh. i'm so elite.

03:35:56 [sbp]

the answer is Morbus

03:35:57 [Morbus]

i just made a random signature script for eudora using perl.

03:36:11 [sbp]

you used Perl? Hmm...

03:36:11 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

03:36:39 [Morbus]

heh.

03:36:51 [Morbus]

yes, i used perl.

03:36:53 [Morbus]

is python installed in osx by default? i don't know.

03:37:04 [AaronSw]

i think so

03:37:20 [AaronSw]

256 doesn't seem like a 16-bit number to me

03:40:21 [deltab]

change it to first person

03:49:12 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh, Gangsta.NET services: http://scobleizer.ManilaSites.Com/2001/12/01

03:50:50 [AaronSw]

Reubens sorta looks like Bezos in this photo: http://www.etonline.com/Media/preubens_990722_rtrs.jpg

03:51:01 [sbp]

"yesterday Jim Allchin (the third-most-powerful guy at Microsoft) said he believes that someday computers won't have keyboards and that we'll talk with them. I totally believe that vision is complete bullshit." from your first link

03:51:23 [sbp]

heh, goes on to say "But, I digress."

03:54:40 [GabeW]

my friend has netthugs.com - we are always looking for something good to do with it

03:56:17 [deltab]

hmm, unclosed parenthesis

03:58:42 [AaronSw]

GabeW, a myThug SOAP service.

03:58:51 [AaronSw]

It's a little known fact that SOAP cleans up the money trail too!

04:05:09 [sbp]

"Wash away your money with SOAP"

04:05:21 [sbp]

nice slogan

04:08:40 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

04:09:40 [GabeW]

* GabeW is doing free tech support for mom - bbiab

04:13:36 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m952-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))

04:13:52 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m952-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

04:14:08 [GabeW]

netthugs - we money laundering and more

04:18:03 [Morbus]

Morbus (~Morbus@s82.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack

04:18:14 [Morbus]

hey, Aaron, have you seen this? looks nice: http://www.chronosnet.com/&/products/index.html

04:18:41 [Morbus]

hey, Aaron, have you seen this? looks nice: http://www.chronosnet.com/&/products/index.html

04:19:22 [AaronSw]

want to say that a few more times?

04:19:49 [AaronSw]

sbp, how's that "I am the walrus" coming? ;)

04:19:56 [Morbus]

didn't know if the channel picked it up - i had sent it before i saw the "you joined" thingy

04:20:05 [AaronSw]

Ah.

04:20:12 [Morbus]

their stickybrain sounds good too.

04:27:36 [Morbus]

trying sticky brain now

04:28:52 [Morbus]

ack! stickies everywhere!

04:28:58 [AaronSw]

heh

04:29:29 [Morbus]

hmm. this actually looks very useful.

04:29:35 [Morbus]

i use stickies a lot.

04:29:41 [Morbus]

and this gives me categories of stickies.

04:29:45 [AaronSw]

cool

04:29:48 [AaronSw]

metadata strikes again

04:29:57 [Morbus]

and hot keys and alarms too.

04:30:04 [Morbus]

right.

04:30:09 [Morbus]

wow.

04:30:09 [Morbus]

and the ability to add checkboxes to a note.

04:30:15 [Morbus]

huh. neato.

04:30:31 [Morbus]

"For example, you can "grab" text from any application by pressing "cmd - option - c". A new sticky with the grabbed text will be created in StickyBrain ‹ even if StickyBrain isn't running!"

04:30:44 [AaronSw]

neato

04:31:37 [Morbus]

you use stickies?

04:31:37 [Morbus]

if you do, this is good replacement

04:32:16 [AaronSw]

no, i quit stickies a while back

04:33:03 [Morbus]

heh, heh.

04:33:28 [Morbus]

oh wow.

04:33:28 [Morbus]

hey, this is neat.

04:33:34 [Morbus]

you can define a sticky to have a hotkey.

04:33:48 [Morbus]

and then set it to drop the contents of the sticky into the current window.

04:33:52 [Morbus]

kinda like a macro text replacement.

04:34:33 [AaronSw]

cool

04:35:22 [Morbus]

1only i can't get it to work.

04:36:30 [Morbus]

argh

04:38:58 [Morbus]

=

04:39:04 [Morbus]

bah

04:41:33 [Morbus]

Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/")

05:01:17 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

05:04:40 [BenSW]

BenSW (~Snak@12.249.136.213) has joined #swhack

05:04:54 [BenSW]

BenSW has left #swhack

05:05:27 [L33T_Speaka]

L33T_Speaka (~Snak@12.249.136.213) has joined #swhack

05:05:39 [L33T_Speaka]

im 31337

05:07:52 [L33T_Speaka]

L33T_Speaka has quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)

05:08:02 [GabeW]

GabeW has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

05:08:19 [hazmat]

hazmat has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

05:08:19 [oierw`]

oierw` has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

05:08:40 [oierw]

oierw has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

05:08:42 [oierw]

oierw (~mathew@nic-118-c81-56.mn.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack

05:10:00 [GabeW]

GabeW (~gwachob@12.236.92.153) has joined #swhack

05:22:27 [hazmat]

hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #swhack

05:22:52 [AaronSw]

howdy

05:32:10 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m939-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack

05:32:25 [aurecom]

aurecom (xphroid@news.f.de.plusline.net) has joined #swhack

05:32:36 [sbp]

wot, no Morbus?

05:32:38 [sbp]

aurecom?

05:33:03 [sbp]

Pff, I didn't ask for "aurecom", I asked for Morbus! What's up with this channel

05:33:03 [aurecom]

hi =)

05:33:08 [sbp]

Hi there :-)

05:33:41 [sbp]

Sorry, it's a funny time of day here

05:33:42 [sbp]

.time

05:33:44 [AaronSw]

aurecom?

05:33:44 [xena]

2001/12/06 05:35:16.1774 Universal

05:34:16 [aurecom]

yeah

05:34:17 [aurecom]

why ?

05:34:19 [aurecom]

=)

05:34:30 [AaronSw]

that's what i want to know ;)

05:35:02 [aurecom]

i am aurecom

05:35:02 [aurecom]

thats all

05:35:02 [aurecom]

=)

05:35:49 [aurecom]

hmm, what kind of channel is this ?

05:35:57 [GabeW]

warez, mostly

05:35:58 [AaronSw]

an off-topic one

05:36:03 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw smacks GabeW

05:36:16 [AaronSw]

... in a nice way!

05:36:19 [sbp]

lol @ warez

05:36:25 [aurecom]

ah oky

05:36:27 [AaronSw]

:-)

05:36:27 [sbp]

We say, "warez Morbus?" mainly

05:36:32 [AaronSw]

lol

05:36:38 [AaronSw]

Yeah, no warez here.

05:36:45 [AaronSw]

Try warez.sf.net

05:36:59 [AaronSw]

Hmm, not up yet...

05:37:03 [AaronSw]

Slow SF admins

05:37:23 [sbp]

if we say "warez" a few more times, your logs might get banned again, eh Aaron? Tell the nice man about the logs

05:37:26 [sbp]

Or woman

05:37:34 [sbp]

Tell the nice thing about...

05:37:52 [AaronSw]

THIS CHANNEL IS LOGGED: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a Google search.

05:38:50 [aurecom]

aurecom has left #swhack

05:39:03 [GabeW]

hehe - scared them away

05:39:06 [sbp]

lol

05:39:15 [sbp]

.nickometer t3rmin4t0r

05:39:16 [xena]

t3rmin4t0r has 30% lameness

05:39:17 [AaronSw]

what's with people and their +i modes. it's really annoying.

05:39:32 [GabeW]

.nickometer d00d

05:39:33 [xena]

d00d has 50% lameness

05:39:34 [AaronSw]

.nickometer **==++t3rmin4t0r++==**

05:39:35 [xena]

**==++t3rmin4t0r++==** has 13% lameness

05:39:39 [AaronSw]

Huh?!

05:39:45 [AaronSw]

This nickometer is messed.

05:39:52 [sbp]

yeah

05:39:55 [AaronSw]

.nickometer 0

05:39:56 [xena]

0 has 0% lameness

05:40:00 [AaronSw]

.nickometer 0m

05:40:02 [xena]

0m has 0% lameness

05:40:05 [sbp]

.nickometer xena

05:40:05 [AaronSw]

.nickometer m0m

05:40:06 [xena]

xena has 0% lameness

05:40:07 [xena]

m0m has 33% lameness

05:40:09 [GabeW]

.nickometer 31337d00d

05:40:10 [xena]

31337d00d has 66% lameness

05:40:23 [sbp]

How do you get 100%?

05:40:25 [AaronSw]

.nickometer 35504210032065

05:40:26 [xena]

35504210032065 has 78% lameness

05:40:31 [GabeW]

.nickometer 31337

05:40:32 [AaronSw]

sbp, you can't anymore -- tav changed it.

05:40:32 [xena]

31337 has 80% lameness

05:40:36 [sbp]

bummer

05:40:44 [GabeW]

.nickometer 31337pr0n

05:40:45 [xena]

31337pr0n has 55% lameness

05:40:53 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw edits source code

05:41:00 [sbp]

.nickometer 31337leet023489

05:41:01 [xena]

31337leet023489 has 53% lameness

05:41:06 [sbp]

Pff

05:41:19 [AaronSw]

shoot, nicometer is on the zope server

05:41:35 [sbp]

Heh, heh, heh

05:41:50 [AaronSw]

bah, permission denied?!

05:42:08 [sbp]

heh, heh 'twas funny scaring that poor thing away... We're naughty

05:43:23 [AaronSw]

Well, Zope ruins another funny joke.

05:43:31 [AaronSw]

I hope Zope's happy.

05:44:26 [sbp]

Zope can wear pantaloons and kiss mny ice-cream as far as I'm concerned. I'm really not in love with it

05:44:33 [GabeW]

ooh - sbp

05:44:43 [sbp]

what, what?

05:44:58 [GabeW]

I understand some frustration with zope - esepcially DTML

05:45:02 [GabeW]

but I still like it

05:45:21 [sbp]

I like it. I'm just not in love with it

05:45:23 [AaronSw]

I hear it's all about TAL.

05:45:37 [GabeW]

ok, I can understand that

05:45:39 [sbp]

or rather, I like what I know about it :-)

05:45:45 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

05:45:51 [GabeW]

Its really easy to download install and start playing with

05:45:52 [AaronSw]

I don't like Zope, and I've used it.

05:46:12 [AaronSw]

It's really hard to make it do stuff, tho.

05:46:19 [GabeW]

hmm

05:46:31 [AaronSw]

I mean, it does HTTP but and WebDAV fine.

05:46:39 [sbp]

but?

05:46:52 [AaronSw]

But I couldn't do a "product" after studying for hours.

05:47:04 [GabeW]

oh - that

05:47:10 [GabeW]

most people never make products

05:47:17 [AaronSw]

What do they do, then?

05:47:22 [GabeW]

they use them

05:47:32 [AaronSw]

Well who cares about that, then?

05:47:41 [GabeW]

you can do a lot of useful stuff without writing any python

05:48:00 [GabeW]

DTML is quite useful, and if you want to write a little python you can do PythonScripts

05:48:05 [GabeW]

and ExternalMethods

05:48:06 [GabeW]

etc

05:48:09 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

05:48:17 [AaronSw]

Well, that's not why I'm interested in Zope.

05:48:18 [GabeW]

and you can actually build products through the UI

05:48:25 [AaronSw]

Really?

05:48:43 [AaronSw]

I mean, I just wanted a thing where I could write some python code, and a template for it, and have it be a website

05:48:55 [sbp]

heh, heh

05:48:57 [GabeW]

you should hop over to #zope

05:49:11 [GabeW]

or get tav to pressure you

05:49:21 [AaronSw]

I already argue about it with tav enough.

05:49:31 [AaronSw]

He made me download the bloated thing.

05:49:34 [AaronSw]

:-)

05:49:35 [GabeW]

well, maybe he doesn't understand what you want

05:50:12 [AaronSw]

Zope looks like it needs a rewrite, and be nicer to its developers.

05:50:14 [deltab]

deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

05:50:31 [GabeW]

I won't neccesarily disagree about the rewrite (at least the interface to devleopers)...

05:50:41 [GabeW]

the learning curve for developing is too steep

05:50:57 [GabeW]

the learning curve for using is quite shallow and gives a lot of power to end users

05:51:12 [AaronSw]

I mean, the ACS is a mess, but at least you can create a new directory, stick in a page of tcl and a template and it works.

05:51:13 [GabeW]

I use the zwiki on a daily basis and have created XP (extreme programming) tools on zope

05:51:27 [AaronSw]

Yeah, the Zwiki looks cool.

05:51:28 [GabeW]

they are refactoring zope to have python-template pages

05:51:37 [AaronSw]

That sounds bad.

05:51:45 [AaronSw]

Python in my HTML?

05:51:49 [GabeW]

yeah

05:51:50 [AaronSw]

is that ptl?

05:51:57 [AaronSw]

That looked really sucky to me.

05:52:17 [GabeW]

that might be it - honestly I don't pay that much attention to zope development these days

05:52:29 [AaronSw]

But I think HTML/XML/whatever in running programming code is sucky, generally.

05:52:43 [AaronSw]

Anyway, my thought was to create a simple abstraction layer.

05:52:45 [GabeW]

well, yeah - clean separatoin is best

05:53:00 [GabeW]

webmacro is still one of my favorite pacakges for that separation

05:53:17 [AaronSw]

the abstraction would let you simply build pages and templates and stuff, and then could hook into BaseHTTPServer, Zope, etc.

05:53:23 [AaronSw]

.google webmacro

05:53:24 [xena]

webmacro: http://www.webmacro.org

05:53:38 [GabeW]

its a java template layer on top of plain ole servlets

05:53:44 [AaronSw]

cool

05:53:51 [GabeW]

its very simple

05:53:56 [GabeW]

simpler than JSP

05:54:09 [AaronSw]

I agree with their philosophy: "Things you don't care about should get out of your face."

05:54:12 [GabeW]

If you are disciplined, you can use JSP in a very effective way

05:54:37 [AaronSw]

That's my problem with xena right now -- i have to do all these magical incantations to do a new module

05:54:47 [GabeW]

what is xena in?

05:54:51 [AaronSw]

Python

05:54:58 [sbp]

duh :-)

05:54:59 [AaronSw]

and it calls out to zope for some stuff

05:55:10 [GabeW]

using xml-rpc?

05:55:17 [AaronSw]

no! REST!

05:55:20 [sbp]

lol

05:55:22 [AaronSw]

It's all about REST!

05:55:29 [GabeW]

in other words - screen scraping!

05:55:36 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw has banned GabeW from the channel (REST).

05:55:39 [sbp]

* sbp knew that was coming, but underestimated the force

05:55:42 [AaronSw]

screen scraping?

05:55:45 [AaronSw]

screen scraping?!?!

05:55:57 [AaronSw]

Huh?

05:55:59 [GabeW]

you know what I mean by screenscraping, right?

05:56:05 [AaronSw]

Yeah, I think so.

05:56:15 [AaronSw]

But a) it's a misuse of the term

05:56:21 [AaronSw]

b) it's just plain wrong

05:56:24 [GabeW]

I mean, basically, make an http call and then parse the return data

05:56:36 [AaronSw]

How is that screen scraping? isn't that what XML-RPC does?

05:56:39 [GabeW]

* GabeW pushes AaronSw's button

05:56:51 [AaronSw]

Bleep.

05:56:58 [GabeW]

well, XML-RPC isn't screen scraping because you aren't inferring content from HTML

05:57:00 [sbp]

:-)

05:57:12 [AaronSw]

Who said anything about HTML?

05:57:17 [GabeW]

ok, yeah,

05:57:49 [AaronSw]

HTTP GETs can return XML too, you know

05:57:53 [GabeW]

I've done screen scraping at a number of places before people thought that *programs* would act as HTTP clients to share data

05:58:02 [sbp]

they could return Python objects too

05:58:11 [GabeW]

they could return ASN.1 as well

05:58:18 [AaronSw]

they could return mp3 files

05:58:41 [AaronSw]

that's how morpheus works, i think

05:58:46 [GabeW]

anyway, screen scraping is essentially a *program* trying to get data from a UI (usually HTML) that wasn't intended for the program client

05:58:58 [AaronSw]

right

05:59:00 [GabeW]

anyway, major sidetrack

05:59:01 [AaronSw]

but that's not happening here

05:59:10 [AaronSw]

Xena calls a zope interface which returns xena-xml

05:59:22 [GabeW]

and the difficulties are?

05:59:33 [AaronSw]

i don't want to run zope to run xena

05:59:40 [AaronSw]

i don't like zope

05:59:43 [GabeW]

that's reasonable

05:59:46 [AaronSw]

tav took away my access to the zope directory

05:59:56 [sbp]

why?

06:00:01 [sbp]

whirrical why...

06:00:01 [AaronSw]

i dunno

06:00:09 [GabeW]

say, why *do* you have to run zope? why not just use the code *directly*?

06:00:41 [AaronSw]

yeah, that's my thought

06:00:46 [dngxor]

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06:00:52 [AaronSw]

that's why i think it's silly

06:01:04 [AaronSw]

but there are some zope products tav used

06:01:13 [GabeW]

I mean, in some ways, Zope is the 'ejb' of python..

06:01:13 [AaronSw]

like .poker stores stuff in the zodb

06:01:26 [AaronSw]

Now I really don't like Zope. ;-)

06:01:29 [GabeW]

heheh

06:01:58 [GabeW]

so you don't control xena....

06:02:08 [AaronSw]

what do you mean?

06:02:19 [GabeW]

I mean, why can't you just stop using zope?

06:02:41 [AaronSw]

I plan to, but i don't want to rewrite all those functions

06:02:52 [AaronSw]

so i'm being lazy in the mean time

06:02:54 [GabeW]

ah

06:02:56 [deltab]

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06:02:56 [GabeW]

got it

06:03:01 [AaronSw]

i'd have to rewrite all this:

06:03:01 [AaronSw]

.zope commands

06:03:02 [xena]

valid commands:

06:03:03 [xena]

- babel, billennium, change, date, dict, e, email, excuse

06:03:04 [xena]

- flight, fortune, google, imdb, intelliquote, news, news on, news source

06:03:05 [xena]

- nickometer, pig latin, plexname, poker, quote, rfc, rfc2, rot13

06:03:07 [xena]

- search, spell, symbol for, time, translate, unixtime, weather, weather2

06:03:07 [xena]

- when did, zope commands

06:03:18 [AaronSw]

some of them should be pretty easy

06:03:25 [AaronSw]

like why did tav do pig latin in zope?

06:03:27 [GabeW]

yeah, and its not like you dn't have the code anyway./

06:03:35 [AaronSw]

right

06:03:37 [GabeW]

right? How many of those features depend on zope features?

06:03:43 [AaronSw]

all the ones above

06:03:50 [AaronSw]

well, actually i don't since tav changed the permissions on me

06:03:58 [AaronSw]

i can't even read the code anymore

06:04:24 [AaronSw]

.rfc2 2822

06:04:25 [xena]

RFC 2822 is located at: http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt

06:04:31 [AaronSw]

.rfc2 coffee

06:04:33 [xena]

error: Site Error occurred: ValueError

06:04:41 [GabeW]

are they products or just zope pages? do you have access to zope from the web?

06:04:47 [AaronSw]

yep

06:05:27 [GabeW]

can you see if those functions are implemented as external Products or as something you can 'get to' *in* Zope?

06:05:37 [AaronSw]

How would I do that?

06:05:45 [AaronSw]

I don't think i have access

06:05:48 [GabeW]

http://the-zope-url/manage

06:06:02 [AaronSw]

ah, see what you mean

06:06:10 [GabeW]

the zope management interface

06:08:52 [AaronSw]

nope, not authorized

06:09:32 [sbp]

* sbp would love to discover a really early version of Notation3 (DesignIssues)

06:09:51 [AaronSw]

i assume you tried web.archive.org

06:09:55 [sbp]

The date on the top says 1998... I don't know if I believe that, but it's interesting all the same

06:09:57 [sbp]

yep, of course

06:10:02 [sbp]

only goes back to early 001

06:10:05 [sbp]

er... 2001

06:10:13 [AaronSw]

it's all in cvs

06:10:23 [sbp]

yes, but not public CVS :-)

06:10:28 [AaronSw]

didn't he mail the cvs log to www-archive?

06:10:36 [sbp]

don't think so

06:10:45 [AaronSw]

What page was it for then?

06:10:53 [sbp]

.google site:lists.w3.org Tim Berners-Lee Notation3 www-archive

06:10:55 [xena]

site:lists.w3.org Tim Berners-Lee Notation3 www-archive: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001May/0004.html

06:11:10 [sbp]

Pff, that's from me :-)

06:11:16 [sbp]

.google site:lists.w3.org Tim Berners-Lee Notation3 www-archive -Sean

06:11:19 [xena]

site:lists.w3.org Tim Berners-Lee Notation3 www-archive -Sean: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Jun/0034.html

06:11:23 [AaronSw]

it was pretty recent

06:11:26 [AaronSw]

won't be in google yet

06:11:38 [AaronSw]

and it might not have been www-archive

06:12:07 [sbp]

I think you've been dreaming :-)

06:12:12 [AaronSw]

nope, i remember this

06:12:54 [GabeW]

night all

06:12:58 [sbp]

c'ya Gabe

06:12:58 [AaronSw]

nite

06:13:16 [GabeW]

GabeW has quit ("Ba-bye!")

06:14:29 [sbp]

"Identifier munging" in Notation3 is rather weird stuff

06:14:43 [AaronSw]

the -__-- idea?

06:14:48 [sbp]

It came from the www-archive thread... yeah

06:14:53 [AaronSw]

that scares me

06:15:01 [sbp]

why not just change the BNF?

06:15:02 [AaronSw]

Aha, here it is! http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001Nov/0187.html

06:15:22 [sbp]

date: 1998/01/29 23:21:17; author: timbl; state: Exp;

06:15:34 [AaronSw]

it's for Fragment tho, i think

06:15:48 [sbp]

yep

06:15:54 [sbp]

you're right

06:15:55 [sbp]

oh well

06:16:06 [sbp]

and it's only a log, so pretty worthless anyway

06:16:06 [AaronSw]

no updates in 1999

06:16:13 [AaronSw]

and only one in 2000

06:16:20 [AaronSw]

i think a log would still be cool

06:16:24 [AaronSw]

it'd verify the date claim

06:16:31 [AaronSw]

email timbl and ask him

06:17:50 [sbp]

no way! You do it :-)

06:18:00 [AaronSw]

heh, you wanted it

06:18:19 [sbp]

not that badly :-) There are a million other things I'd rather ask...

06:18:37 [AaronSw]

he's pretty approachable. he responded to my Webizing Python thing

06:19:04 [sbp]

oh of course - I'm just saying that such a request would be a bit of a waste of time

06:19:19 [AaronSw]

ask danc then

06:19:31 [AaronSw]

:-)

06:19:36 [sbp]

heh, heh

06:20:32 [sbp]

logster, grep -i N3.*Python

06:20:39 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'N3.*Python'

06:20:40 [logster]

0) 2001-12-06 06:20:32 <sbp> logster, grep -i N3.*Python

06:20:53 [sbp]

logster, grep -i Python.*N3

06:21:02 [logster]

I'm logging. I found 3 answers for 'Python.*N3'

06:21:03 [logster]

0) 2001-12-06 06:20:53 <sbp> logster, grep -i Python.*N3

06:21:04 [logster]

1) 2001-11-08 23:20:12 <sbp> Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

06:21:05 [logster]

2) 2001-10-07 00:41:18 <sbp> python query.py earl.n3 earlq.n3 > out.n3

06:21:16 [sbp]

wonderful

06:22:00 [AaronSw]

Heh.

06:22:13 [sbp]

Fear my mighty grepping skills!

06:24:39 [sbp]

"It would be nice to be able to outlaw - in IDs." - but why? why?

06:24:55 [AaronSw]

Because it's like the minus sign

06:25:00 [AaronSw]

and tim wants N3 math!

06:25:42 [sbp]

heh, heh. There's already a math built in, y'know :-)

06:25:46 [AaronSw]

:-)

06:28:41 [sbp]

http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/Primer is a really cool page

06:28:47 [AaronSw]

yeah

06:28:58 [sbp]

Hmm... Aaron, what's your favourite resource on the Web?

06:29:12 [AaronSw]

Google?

06:29:26 [sbp]

Good answer

06:35:38 [sbp]

@ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Oct/0155

06:35:40 [chumpster]

A: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Oct/0155 from sbp

06:36:07 [sbp]

A:The N3 in the signature was how I was alerted to [http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3|Notation3]

06:36:31 [sbp]

A:Let's run it through CWM...

06:36:59 [AaronSw]

sbp, it's A::, not A:

06:37:05 [AaronSw]

A:That's some old N3.

06:37:12 [sbp]

oops

06:37:19 [sbp]

A::The N3 in the signature was how I was alerted to [http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3|Notation3]

06:37:19 [chumpster]

commented item A

06:37:24 [sbp]

A::Let's run it through CWM...

06:37:25 [chumpster]

commented item A

06:37:25 [AaronSw]

A::That's some old N3.

06:37:26 [chumpster]

commented item A

06:37:41 [sbp]

A::CWM wants a QName after the prefix nowadays

06:37:42 [chumpster]

commented item A

06:37:48 [sbp]

A::Progress

06:37:49 [chumpster]

commented item A

06:38:13 [AaronSw]

I still want whitespace-sensative N3.

06:38:22 [sbp]

Eek, why?

06:38:35 [sbp]

Hmm... it seems that Notation3 still supports "bind"

06:38:35 [AaronSw]

Cuz ;s suck. It's much easier to type.

06:38:39 [AaronSw]

It'd be optional, of course

06:39:06 [sbp]

if you're familiar with Python, I suppose...

06:39:27 [AaronSw]

<mailto:me@aaronsw.com> is mailbox of

06:39:27 [AaronSw]

a :Person

06:39:27 [AaronSw]

called "Aaron Swartz

06:39:27 [AaronSw]

homePage <http://www.aaronsw.com>

06:39:32 [AaronSw]

much cleaner

06:39:41 [AaronSw]

Not a fan of Python's indentation rules?

06:40:18 [sbp]

not a great fan, I like the flexibilty that ; gives you (in N3)

06:40:30 [AaronSw]

well, you'd continue to be able to use ; of course

06:40:38 [AaronSw]

it's just that indentation would allow you to omit it

06:40:50 [sbp]

* sbp is not captivated

06:41:11 [AaronSw]

well you're weird

06:41:19 [sbp]

I have my own weird little style style guide for Notation3

06:41:32 [AaronSw]

want to share it with the rest of us?

06:41:36 [sbp]

In fact, I have loads of little eccentricities, some of which evolve over time

06:42:03 [sbp]

Not really - it has to be the most boring bit of knowledge I could possibly impart. N3 style guide... eek

06:42:04 [AaronSw]

indeed you do

06:42:09 [sbp]

heh, heh

06:42:11 [AaronSw]

heheh

06:45:50 [AaronSw]

cool, this spam reporter seems to work!

06:45:52 [AaronSw]

that's awesome

06:46:10 [deltab]

how do you know?

06:46:34 [AaronSw]

well, it doesn't raise an error, and deletes the mail.

06:46:44 [AaronSw]

and if i ask it in a few minutes if the mail is spam, it says yes

06:46:47 [AaronSw]

even tho it said no before

06:47:05 [AaronSw]

it's protocol needs work tho

06:47:11 [AaronSw]

it hashes the message, which is really stupid

06:47:16 [AaronSw]

it needs to do a fuzzier comparison

06:47:25 [AaronSw]

since many spams have subtle differences from person to person

06:47:47 [AaronSw]

and it should probably implement a majority-rules thing before declaring something spam

06:49:10 [AaronSw]

deltab, i'm a little confused about that return code thing

06:49:14 [AaronSw]

it always seems to return 256

06:50:35 [deltab]

low byte signal, high byte exit status

06:50:45 [AaronSw]

what's the high byte of 256?

06:50:53 [deltab]

1

06:51:05 [AaronSw]

How do I figure that out programmatically?

06:51:15 [deltab]

n >> 8

06:51:20 [sbp]

Gotta run

06:51:21 [sbp]

sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")

06:51:22 [AaronSw]

.py 256 >> 8

06:51:23 [xena]

1

06:51:24 [AaronSw]

bye sbp

06:51:27 [AaronSw]

cool, thanks deltab

06:52:03 [AaronSw]

nite all

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12:02:15 [tansaku]

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14:21:29 [Morbus]

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14:22:00 [Morbus]

whoo! first part of my article is going up tomorrow.

14:53:25 [Morbus]

wow! the new opera for win is good!

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15:10:20 [AaronSw]

awesome!

15:10:56 [oierw`]

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15:11:11 [Morbus]

man, this new opera is good.

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15:13:22 [Morbus]

heh!

15:13:35 [Morbus]

alltheweb.com lists logicerror a the number one response for morbus iff

15:15:11 [AaronSw]

lol

15:15:19 [AaronSw]

i am the man!

15:15:23 [Morbus]

:)

15:15:37 [Morbus]

man, once i get vpc 5, i'm gonna run opera 6 win32 as my default browser <g>

15:15:40 [AaronSw]

This is great, I know folks at All the Web _and_ Google.

15:16:12 [AaronSw]

Heh, disobey.com isn't intil the 6th hit

15:22:42 [Morbus]

holy crap.

15:22:47 [Morbus]

all the web found that mp3 i'm looking for.

15:22:50 [Morbus]

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15:28:57 [AaronSw]

.dtrt mp3:corporate anthems

15:29:00 [xena]

mp3:corporate: http://www.oth.net/cgi-bin/search?q=corporate&cl=1

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16:39:26 [AaronSw]

hey sbp

16:39:32 [sbp]

Hi there

16:58:49 [sbp]

Hmm... I might change my .sig so it has a random plug for [ daml:oneOf (<http://infomesh.net/2001/swintro> <http://infomesh.net/2001/05/sw/>) ] .

16:59:16 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

17:01:29 [sbp]

My Mum had a sleepless night last night... apparently, she kept waking up singing "Lovely Rita, Meter Maid", and it drove her nuts. She only got three hours sleep!

17:03:08 [sbp]

Needless to say, I am now banned from playing "Lovely Rita"

17:05:24 [AaronSw]

LOL!

17:05:52 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw plays "Lovely Rita"

17:06:10 [AaronSw]

Were you playing it last night?

17:07:58 [AaronSw]

"But none of the US papers treat the rest of the world with the regularity that papers from a relatively insignificant island nation do. And there's a pithiness and edge to good British journalism that has been erased from US papers. More profoundly, there's far less respect exhibited by journalists here to the supposed icons of the age." - http://www.davosnewbies.com/2001/12/03#apoplexy

17:09:49 [sbp]

Strangely enough, I wasn't. I'm gonna learn it on guitar now :-)

17:11:00 [AaronSw]

@ http://cocoadevcentral.com/tutorials/showpage.php?show=00000038.php

17:11:04 [chumpster]

B: Cocoa Dev Central: Serving Cocoa Newbies from AaronSw

17:11:23 [AaronSw]

B:|Getting Statted with Portable Distributed Objects (PDOs) in Cocoa

17:11:24 [chumpster]

titled item B

17:11:45 [AaronSw]

B::via [Brent|http://mac.scripting.com/]

17:11:46 [chumpster]

commented item B

17:35:04 [Morbus]

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17:44:12 [sbp]

* sbp writes up a Notation3 style guide, just for a laugh

17:44:18 [AaronSw]

Cool.

17:44:41 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw creates database storage system for RDF API

17:48:24 [sbp]

@ http://infomesh.net/2001/12/n3style/

17:48:32 [chumpster]

C: Notation3 Style Guide from sbp

17:48:50 [sbp]

C::Possibly the most boring document in existence; and pointless with it

17:48:51 [chumpster]

commented item C

17:49:58 [sbp]

C::cf. my [http://infomesh.net/2001/cwm/|guide to CWM]

17:49:59 [chumpster]

commented item C

17:50:26 [sbp]

C::Er... which is one of the more useful documents I've written

17:50:26 [chumpster]

commented item C

17:50:34 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

17:51:34 [AaronSw]

Maybe you should bring CWM in line with the style guyide now.

17:52:10 [AaronSw]

Heh, guyide.

17:52:12 [sbp]

Ugh

17:52:46 [sbp]

CWM actually does a good job of pretty printing when you consider it

17:53:01 [AaronSw]

Yeah, it really does.

18:19:09 [sbp]

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18:37:27 [kenm]

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18:37:43 [AaronSw]

howdy kenm

18:39:21 [kenm]

hey

18:39:35 [kenm]

have you played with Curl yet?

18:39:48 [AaronSw]

not really -- i'm curious to see what it looks like tho

18:40:04 [kenm]

looks a lot like TeX, in a very good way

18:40:12 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

18:40:21 [kenm]

very readable

18:40:50 [kenm]

its structure is a little like Python

18:41:21 [AaronSw]

their .zip files are somewhat well-behaved

18:41:27 [kenm]

fully dynamic and not strictly typed

18:41:37 [kenm]

not typed at all, afaict

18:41:48 [AaronSw]

Interesting

18:42:01 [AaronSw]

Heh, they did a s/_p/?/

18:42:12 [kenm]

.http://www.curlexamples.com/examples/17/start.curl

18:42:16 [xena]

|| || Example of how easy it is to build XML driven Web sites in Curl. || {curl 1.6 applet} || Import the SAX2 parser {import * from CURL.XML.SAX.PARSER} {let results:VBox = {VBox}, num-elements:int = 0 } || Create a ContentHandler to handle the callbacks from the parser {define-class final MyHandler {inherits DefaultHandler} {method public {start-element namespace:String, local-name:String,

18:42:17 [xena]

q-name:String, atts:Attributes}:void {inc num-elements} {results.add {HBox {Fill width = 8pt * num-elements}, "Starting element '" & {value q-name} & "'" } } } {method public {end-element namespace:String, local-name:String, q-name:String}:void {results.add {HBox {Fill width = 8pt * num-elements}, "Ending element '" & {value q-name} & "'" } } {dec num-elements} } {method public {end-document}:void

18:42:18 [xena]

.. a very large amount of text.

18:42:24 [AaronSw]

whoa

18:42:28 [kenm]

heh

18:42:31 [kenm]

silly bots!

18:42:45 [AaronSw]

that's a xena feature I didn't know of. heh

18:42:48 [kenm]

that's a SAX client

18:43:08 [AaronSw]

Wes made a comment along the lines of "i'd like to see what curl looks like but all the examples are in curl" ;)

18:43:22 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw grabs the curl example with cURL

18:43:38 [kenm]

yes, the examples page is written in curl, so if you can't run the plug-in, ur hosed

18:44:01 [AaronSw]

it does look an awful lot like Python -- it even has the dreaded import * from x.

18:44:22 [kenm]

once you get into the example, it has full URLs to all the source examples, which is where I got that one

18:44:22 [sbp]

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18:44:44 [AaronSw]

|| seems sort of an odd choice for a comment character

18:44:56 [xena]

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18:45:20 [kenm]

it also mixes marked up text, app, and graphics in a nice way. much like DSSSL

18:45:22 [sbp]

yes, it does

18:45:29 [sbp]

|| usuall means "or"

18:45:45 [AaronSw]

Yeah.

18:46:11 [sbp]

s/usuall/usually/

18:46:33 [AaronSw]

After spending so much time with Python all those {}s hurt my eyes!

18:47:12 [kenm]

I find it a refreshing break from Python!

18:47:17 [AaronSw]

Heh.

18:47:19 [AaronSw]

Why's that?

18:47:26 [AaronSw]

It does seem typed.

18:47:51 [kenm]

I don't like Py's indent grammar

18:48:00 [AaronSw]

Hmm, you and sbp...

18:48:08 [AaronSw]

I think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

18:48:10 [kenm]

it's hard to maintain when moving code around

18:48:41 [AaronSw]

not if you have an editor which indents/dedents for you

18:48:50 [xena]

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18:48:52 [kenm]

it's bad enough in emacs, I'd hate to feel the pain people using vi or simple text editors must go through

18:49:19 [AaronSw]

I suppose so... I guess they should switch to GUI editors. ;-)

18:49:28 [AaronSw]

methods and method parameters seem to be typed... interesting

18:49:52 [kenm]

I'd like to see how a GUI editor deals with it. I can't see it being much better, once you lose context you are truly hosed with py

18:49:54 [sbp]

Actually, I don't mind the signifigant whitespace as much anymore

18:50:15 [kenm]

where are you seeing types?

18:50:23 [AaronSw]

kenm, just highlight, copy, switch editors, paste, and hit command-[ or ] as necessary.

18:50:48 [AaronSw]

{method private {Slider.motion f:double}:void

18:50:48 [kenm]

right, as long as you don't lose the context of the selection

18:50:54 [AaronSw]

yeah

18:51:05 [kenm]

doh! I was missing that

18:51:47 [AaronSw]

It's even got let statements!

18:51:48 [AaronSw]

let f-sum:double = 0.0

18:53:07 [kenm]

it's got HBoxen and VBoxen, /me shivers with joy

18:53:28 [AaronSw]

tim invested in Curl, didn't he

18:53:41 [kenm]

something like that

18:54:09 [AaronSw]

wonder why -- he's such a big python fan

18:54:22 [AaronSw]

Ah, yeah: http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/CurlCo.html

18:55:08 [AaronSw]

I guess people around LCS just hand him shares in things.

18:55:09 [kenm]

well, this *is* effectively "Python for content"

18:55:34 [AaronSw]

I suppose so...

18:56:38 [kenm]

lack of boxen has been the biggest bane of almost all content (web or gui) since boxen were invented (in TeX, of course ;)

18:56:53 [AaronSw]

what exactly are boxen?

18:57:17 [kenm]

in short, self adjusting placement widgets

18:57:39 [kenm]

like Tcl's packer, just much much better

18:57:44 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

18:57:47 [AaronSw]

Neat.

18:58:03 [AaronSw]

Weird, their code comment character seems to be ||--

18:58:17 [sbp]

Ugh

18:58:21 [sbp]

Gotta run

18:58:22 [kenm]

the better boxen, in particular, support "soft-fill" spacers, which grow proportionally

18:58:29 [AaronSw]

c'ya sbp

18:58:49 [AaronSw]

Hmm, sorta like CSS boxes?

18:59:34 [kenm]

iirc, yes, they are in the lesser boxen line

19:00:04 [AaronSw]

OK.

19:02:49 [AaronSw]

whoa, monkeyfist got a redesign

19:03:49 [AaronSw]

@ http://monkeyfist.com/articles/795

19:03:56 [chumpster]

D: http://monkeyfist.com/articles/795 from AaronSw

19:04:23 [AaronSw]

D:|MonkeyFist.com Gets a Redesign

19:04:23 [chumpster]

titled item D

19:04:35 [AaronSw]

@ http://www.semanticweb.org/SWWS/report/

19:04:39 [chumpster]

E: SWWS Final Report from AaronSw

19:04:49 [AaronSw]

E::In PDF, of course.

19:04:50 [chumpster]

commented item E

19:06:35 [AaronSw]

D::In an interesting twist on micropayments, each story contains a link to the author's Amazon Wishlist.

19:06:36 [chumpster]

commented item D

19:07:20 [kenm]

I hadn't seen the final redesign. looks *really* good

19:07:28 [AaronSw]

Yeah, it really ford.

19:07:31 [AaronSw]

err does.

19:08:12 [AaronSw]

You don't have an Amazon Wishlist, tho. ;-)

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19:13:35 [kenm]

gotta run, ttyl

19:13:36 [kenm]

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19:20:11 [AaronSw]

LOL: Zooko: """Irby and I play a game called "The Contest Between Order and Disorder With Respect to Blocks". I try to gather the blocks up and stack them neatly in their container, and he tries to take them out. Lately he has started using the winning move for the forces of disorder: upending the container."""

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20:02:31 [sbp]

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20:14:21 [dngxor]

FATALITY! DISORDER WINS!

20:16:43 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

20:16:51 [AaronSw]

Disortal combat.

20:28:55 [AaronSw]

sbp, what's my title?

20:29:03 [AaronSw]

I'm making up my business cards...

20:29:10 [AaronSw]

I'm thinking "Man of Mystery"

20:31:13 [oierw]

i'll do it!

20:31:22 [AaronSw]

what will you do?

20:31:24 [oierw]

err...

20:31:29 [oierw]

wrong channel

20:31:32 [oierw]

i need to tell you something

20:31:34 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

20:31:35 [AaronSw]

OK.

20:31:44 [AaronSw]

i've redesigned it so i don't need a title anymore

20:32:04 [oierw]

<oierw> aww

20:32:16 [oierw]

<oierw> someone tell aaron that the network can do with all knowns

20:32:23 [oierw]

<oierw> and triples have 7 parts, not 5

20:32:23 [AaronSw]

k

20:32:27 [oierw]

<oierw> :)

20:32:36 [AaronSw]

They keep growing, eh.

20:32:40 [oierw]

timestamp

20:32:41 [oierw]

need that

20:32:42 [AaronSw]

s,p,o,pkey,sig,timestamp

20:32:45 [oierw]

and a kill time

20:32:53 [AaronSw]

what's that?

20:32:58 [AaronSw]

ttl?

20:33:01 [oierw]

yeah

20:33:07 [AaronSw]

why do we need that?

20:33:23 [AaronSw]

i guess it was my idea ;)

20:33:33 [oierw]

yes

20:33:40 [oierw]

:)

20:34:00 [oierw]

* oierw departs again

20:34:05 [AaronSw]

c'ya

20:44:52 [AaronSw]

@ http://swartzfam.com/aaron/bizcard.png

20:44:55 [chumpster]

F: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/bizcard.png from AaronSw

20:45:01 [AaronSw]

F:|Aaron's Business Card

20:45:01 [chumpster]

titled item F

20:45:27 [AaronSw]

F:Inspired by [Dan Connolly's|http://www.w3.org/2001/02pd/sw-bcard.png].

20:46:03 [sbp]

double ::

20:46:10 [AaronSw]

F::Inspired by [Dan Connolly's|http://www.w3.org/2001/02pd/sw-bcard.png].

20:46:11 [chumpster]

commented item F

20:46:47 [AaronSw]

F::When I went to P2PCon2, I realized I needed a business card, if only as a physical link to my website/mailbox. So I'm hoping to make up some of these before [EtCon|http://conferences.oreillynet.com/etcon2002/].

20:46:48 [chumpster]

commented item F

20:46:54 [AaronSw]

What do you think of it, sbp?

20:47:51 [AaronSw]

F::Made in [OmniGraffle|http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/].

20:47:53 [chumpster]

commented item F

20:47:58 [AaronSw]

thanks for letting me know about the :: btw

20:49:20 [sbp]

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20:49:31 [AaronSw]

hmm

20:50:29 [sbp]

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20:52:06 [Morbus]

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20:52:37 [Morbus]

woo.

20:53:00 [AaronSw]

sbp, Morbus, what do you think of http://swartzfam.com/aaron/bizcard.png ?

20:53:05 [AaronSw]

what's so wooey, Morbus?

20:53:52 [Morbus]

at first glance, i like it a lot.

20:53:58 [AaronSw]

cool

20:54:01 [Morbus]

at second glance, the only thing that bugs me is the ->project

20:54:07 [AaronSw]

why's that?

20:54:22 [Morbus]

from a generic, i know nothing point of view, it's repetitive with cloud Plex *project*

20:54:32 [AaronSw]

yeah

20:54:40 [AaronSw]

oh, and i used homepage/website inconsistently

20:54:44 [Morbus]

what about "contributor" "creator" "efforts".

20:54:47 [AaronSw]

i'll have it just point to "The Plex" then.

20:55:12 [Morbus]

hp/ws is true, but it makes better sense then "my website" and "website".

20:55:28 [AaronSw]

i'll just use homepage for both

20:55:43 [AaronSw]

"Aaron Swartz" --project--> "The Plex" .

20:55:45 [AaronSw]

is that ok?

20:55:45 [Morbus]

but yeah, i like this.

20:56:05 [Morbus]

yeah

20:56:09 [AaronSw]

i was surprised it came out so well

20:56:14 [Morbus]

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20:56:26 [AaronSw]

thanks for your help

20:56:36 [Morbus]

no problem. finally got that song i was looking for.

20:56:36 [AaronSw]

uploaded new version

20:56:42 [AaronSw]

oh, cool

20:57:42 [Morbus]

uh oh. something's bugging me again <G>

20:57:49 [AaronSw]

heh, what?

20:58:14 [Morbus]

i'd elongate the plexdev.org arrow head just a teensy weensy bit longer. to make it as strong as the other arrow head tails.

20:58:22 [AaronSw]

heh, i just did that

20:58:25 [Morbus]

:)

21:00:32 [AaronSw]

Ok, how about now?

21:02:36 [Morbus]

AaronSw, good.

21:02:42 [sbp]

The diagram is alright...

21:02:53 [Morbus]

still haven't done my cards. remind me to resintall quarkexpress and export it for you.

21:02:53 [AaronSw]

what's wrong with it?

21:02:54 [sbp]

but the silhouetted man is a bit dodgy looking

21:03:01 [AaronSw]

lol

21:03:07 [AaronSw]

i was going to name him "Man of Mystery"

21:03:12 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

21:03:15 [AaronSw]

or "Evil Hacker"

21:03:29 [Morbus]

call him public witness #1

21:03:40 [sbp]

AaronSw`

21:03:44 [AaronSw]

heh heh

21:05:44 [Morbus]

heh: 05:32:36 <sbp> wot, no Morbus?

21:05:50 [Morbus]

at 5:32? you nuts? <G>

21:06:05 [AaronSw]

5:32AM british time.

21:06:06 [Morbus]

05:36:27 <sbp> We say, "warez Morbus?" mainly

21:06:07 [Morbus]

hehe.

21:06:19 [sbp]

heh, heh. I thought you'd like that conversation

21:06:26 [sbp]

We scared that poor thing away quite quickly

21:06:31 [Morbus]

:)

21:06:33 [AaronSw]

when do you normally wake up, sbp?

21:06:38 [Morbus]

hazing is so fun, isn't it?

21:06:53 [sbp]

You really don't wanna know...

21:06:58 [sbp]

hazing: Hmm...

21:07:18 [AaronSw]

Yes I do. Midnight?

21:07:32 [sbp]

heh, heh

21:07:36 [AaronSw]

I need to know for trip planning purposes...

21:07:57 [sbp]

Ah, fair enough. Well, any time after midday is alright, I guess

21:08:00 [Morbus]

yeah, didn't AaronSw and i tell you were coming to sleep over this weekend?

21:08:08 [Morbus]

although sleep is just the operative phrase of course.

21:08:09 [AaronSw]

Libby said she might come too.

21:08:19 [sbp]

Morbus and Aaron? Well, you'll have to sleep together on the sofa

21:08:23 [Morbus]

and you konw Libby - she's a looker, she is.

21:08:32 [Morbus]

nuh uh, AaronSw gets the floor. i'm bigger.

21:08:42 [AaronSw]

no, tav's already claimed the floor.

21:08:46 [sbp]

Aaron can sleep on the windowsill

21:08:51 [AaronSw]

k.

21:08:52 [Morbus]

yeah! like a cat!

21:08:56 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

21:09:00 [Morbus]

and then i can push him out! i hope you live on the 12th floor.

21:09:05 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw pounces on Morbus

21:09:11 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw busily scratches at Morbus's face

21:09:13 [Morbus]

ack! AaronSw does a Rik immitation!

21:09:14 [Morbus]

<g>

21:09:17 [AaronSw]

:-)

21:09:25 [sbp]

heh, heh

21:09:55 [sbp]

* sbp wonders whether to spew his N3 archive out to the world, or just give an odd reference here and there, and make people hunt for it

21:10:05 [sbp]

I believe I shall make people hunt for it. Heh, heh

21:10:10 [AaronSw]

N3 archive

21:10:23 [AaronSw]

?

21:11:36 [Morbus]

i really like opera 6

21:11:46 [AaronSw]

you told us

21:11:50 [AaronSw]

do they have an OS X version?

21:11:57 [Morbus]

they do, beta 2, but its not nearly as good.

21:12:01 [AaronSw]

Hmm

21:12:13 [AaronSw]

folks on linux really seem to like it

21:12:22 [AaronSw]

but the mdi interface looks really sucky

21:12:26 [AaronSw]

how do people live with that?

21:12:50 [Morbus]

o6 has mdi and sdi. its an option.

21:12:56 [AaronSw]

oh, cool

21:12:57 [Morbus]

if you choose sdi, it has mozilla-like tabs as well.

21:13:31 [AaronSw]

beta 4 for OS X is out

21:13:43 [Morbus]

oh! i'll have to try it out.

21:13:51 [AaronSw]

oh wait, that's of Opera 5

21:13:54 [Morbus]

as for last ngith, the organizer thingy sucked. didn't like it. but stuck with stickybrain.

21:14:07 [AaronSw]

cool

21:14:14 [Morbus]

do you know if anyone has gone to porting darwin/osx to a intel chip?

21:14:18 [Morbus]

386 chip, whatever.

21:14:25 [AaronSw]

yep, it's been done already

21:14:31 [Morbus]

even the gui? or just darwin?

21:14:33 [Morbus]

link?

21:14:37 [AaronSw]

just darwin

21:14:41 [AaronSw]

http://www.darwinfo.org/howto/intel.shtml

21:14:41 [Morbus]

oh. ok.

21:14:54 [AaronSw]

i don't think the gui is really going to be doable

21:15:05 [Morbus]

don't break my heart, AaronSw! ,G>

21:15:10 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

21:15:28 [Morbus]

my boss is like "i'd buy osx in a heartbeat if it ran on pcs".

21:15:37 [AaronSw]

heh heh, i know a lot of people who say that

21:15:40 [Morbus]

i keep begging him to buy me a g4 <G>

21:15:46 [sbp]

Morbus, you really need to start closing your <G> tags. You must have opened millions of them by now: we're not in the old SGML days, y'know

21:15:46 [AaronSw]

There's no source code for it, so unless apple compiles it for them, it's not going to happen.

21:15:57 [Morbus]

> x 1e6

21:16:02 [Morbus]

there ya go, bitch.

21:16:07 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

21:16:10 [sbp]

Heh, heh

21:16:23 [Morbus]

:)

21:16:39 [sbp]

At least you didn't call me a biatch

21:17:09 [Morbus]

my gansta plugin is at home.

21:19:03 [sbp]

lol!

21:19:04 [sbp]

[[[

21:19:04 [sbp]

* timbl slaps MarkB around a bit with a large trout

21:19:05 [sbp]

* sbp wonders if QNames should map to URI-views, or just stay as QName pairs using an undefined structuring

21:19:05 [sbp]

<sbp> lol, Tim

21:19:05 [sbp]

* timbl what?

21:19:06 [sbp]

<MarkB> ow

21:19:07 [sbp]

* timbl apologizes to markb - must have dropped a trout on kis keybotrad

21:19:09 [sbp]

]]]

21:19:11 [AaronSw]

lol

21:27:38 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw goes outside to enjoy the fine summer whether we're having this winter

21:28:21 [sbp]

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21:40:43 [AaronSw]

s/whether/weather/

21:40:57 [Morbus]

wired did an article on kpmg. heh.

21:41:08 [AaronSw]

yeah, saw ;)

21:43:35 [Morbus]

woot! http://www.cliterati.co.uk/page/article.php?story=20010813005528135

21:43:51 [dngxor_]

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21:47:26 [Morbus]

wonder if i should chump that.

21:47:32 [Morbus]

http://www.macnn.com/news.php?id=11122

21:48:45 [sbp]

do it, do it, do it!

21:48:51 [Morbus]

hehehe.

21:49:07 [Morbus]

i know the guy who's girlfriend runs that site.

21:49:13 [Morbus]

was thinking of writing for it sometime.

21:49:19 [sbp]

* sbp reads it...

21:49:25 [sbp]

don't do it, don't do it, don't do it!

21:49:34 [Morbus]

heh! sniff. sniff.

21:49:38 [sbp]

:-)

21:49:59 [sbp]

Well, at least it's literature. More thought provoking than Camwhores

21:50:05 [Morbus]

right.

21:50:31 [sbp]

Hmm... "As I felt it start to twitch, I pulled back. 'Well, you have two choices. You can either come down my throat or you can fuck me senseless.'"

21:50:40 [sbp]

Choices, choices

21:50:41 [Morbus]

yeah, its not very well written actuallly.

21:50:45 [sbp]

No

21:50:46 [Morbus]

there are much better ones.

21:50:49 [Morbus]

wanna see my favorite?

21:50:56 [sbp]

I'm afrai

21:51:03 [sbp]

s/afrai/afraid/

21:51:11 [sbp]

but go ahead... :-)

21:51:52 [AaronSw]

Ok, I really have to move these logs to a new site now.

21:52:19 [sbp]

heh, heh, heh

21:52:48 [sbp]

Oops, nearly 10PM

21:52:50 [sbp]

Gotta run

21:52:53 [sbp]

sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")

21:53:06 [Morbus]

heheh

21:53:13 [Morbus]

does Morbus have a potty mouth ;)

21:54:31 [Morbus]

LOL: http://www.mycathatesyou.com/catindex.htm

21:54:56 [Morbus]

man, this is hiliarious.

21:55:07 [AaronSw]

lol

22:11:07 [Morbus]

ooh! i've had *two* dl's of my eudora sig randomzier <G>

22:11:42 [AaronSw]

Oooh. Where's it at?

22:12:11 [Morbus]

its "email me"ware right now, since i'm looking for beta testers before i truly post it.

22:12:18 [AaronSw]

heh

22:12:33 [Morbus]

wanna copy, dya dya? <G>

22:13:47 [AaronSw]

entourage has random sigs built in <g>

22:13:52 [Morbus]

yeah, i know :)

22:13:54 [AaronSw]

</>

22:13:57 [Morbus]

that was a +1 for it :)

22:14:04 [AaronSw]

:)

22:14:20 [AaronSw]

I mean, even Mail.app has that!

22:14:22 [Morbus]

there was a random sig plugin for eudora, but it broke with os x.

22:14:43 [AaronSw]

weird, IE5 keeps putting up this all white splotch on my screen

22:15:06 [Morbus]

yeah, that has always happened to me. i have to rescroll to get it to draw right.

22:15:20 [AaronSw]

no, this is outside of the browser window

22:15:27 [AaronSw]

i've had that too

22:15:27 [AaronSw]

it

22:15:32 [Morbus]

oh. that's weird.

22:15:35 [AaronSw]

it's like a small popup window that never got drawn

22:16:05 [Morbus]

does it only have a window border? and you can see like the first two jellies?

22:16:17 [AaronSw]

nope, no border

22:16:26 [Morbus]

hmm. i've had something like that, i think.

22:16:33 [Morbus]

not frequent enough to care though

22:16:45 [AaronSw]

it seems to keep coming back today

22:17:43 [tav``]

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22:20:30 [AaronSw]

Grr, this pollster wouldn't even let me hang up on her.

22:21:15 [Morbus]

uh. how the hell is she doing that?

22:21:19 [Morbus]

she's way over there.

22:21:22 [AaronSw]

Heh.

22:21:33 [AaronSw]

She hung up first.

22:21:43 [AaronSw]

Weird, something in my computer is beeping but it stops when i scroll.

22:23:25 [tav``]

tav`` has quit ("Hakuna Matata")

22:23:43 [Morbus]

do you use quickkeys?

22:24:03 [AaronSw]

no

22:25:14 [Morbus]

goin home to download 922. fun fun

22:25:41 [AaronSw]

c'ya

22:25:50 [Morbus]

not just yet.

22:26:04 [AaronSw]

ok, see you

22:26:22 [Morbus]

"A reader offers this suggestion as to why QuicKeys X 1.0.1 was pulled and quickly replaced by 1.0.2 (see yesterday's item): "I think it was pulled because the update sets the countdown for the trial version to over 31,000 days. Yes, that # is correct. My trial version (1.01) is now down to 31,150 days after 2 days.""

22:26:40 [AaronSw]

Heh heh heh.

22:26:50 [AaronSw]

.py 31000 / 365

22:26:59 [AaronSw]

.py 31000 / 365

22:27:00 [xena]

84

22:27:03 [Morbus]

!!

22:27:06 [AaronSw]

i'd be happy to use that version

22:27:09 [Morbus]

heh... that's a nice robust demo.

22:27:10 [Morbus]

:)

22:27:50 [AaronSw]

I wish there was a realmedia player for mac

22:28:04 [AaronSw]

os x

22:28:07 [Morbus]

i thought there . oh. ok.

22:28:52 [Morbus]

geez, i love opera mouse gestures.

22:29:11 [AaronSw]

what are those?

22:29:22 [Morbus]

ways to control the app just by moving shit around.

22:29:28 [AaronSw]

weird

22:29:30 [Morbus]

for example, i hold down the right mouse button, drag down and let go.

22:29:33 [Morbus]

that opens up a new window.

22:29:43 [Morbus]

or, i hold down r, drag down and right, and that closes the open window.

22:29:51 [Morbus]

likewise, hold and left/right go back and forward.

22:29:53 [AaronSw]

neato -- it's like command kets for the mouse

22:29:53 [Morbus]

its very nice.

22:29:58 [Morbus]

yeah, pretty much.

22:30:32 [Morbus]

http://www.opera.com/windows/mouse.html

22:35:54 [Morbus]

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22:44:32 [AaronSw]

ah, turns out that white splotch was the download manager

22:49:29 [GabeW]

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22:58:38 [sbp]

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22:58:50 [AaronSw]

wohoo, my december mailing came

22:59:27 [GabeW]

hey AaronSw

22:59:34 [AaronSw]

]hey GabeW

22:59:57 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw fights with sticker on mailing

23:01:15 [AaronSw]

What's the BEEP greeting? How's it beeping?

23:02:08 [GabeW]

actually, "beep beep"

23:02:13 [AaronSw]

Heh heh.

23:02:38 [GabeW]

or "beep you"

23:02:45 [AaronSw]

beep you!

23:02:53 [AaronSw]

:-)

23:04:56 [tav``]

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23:05:48 [GabeW]

beep you tav!

23:10:42 [tav``]

hi

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23:26:26 [Morbus]

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23:27:23 [Morbus]

warez sbp?

23:29:30 [GabeW]

swhack is now a warez channel

23:29:41 [GabeW]

AaronSw has become 31337

23:29:59 [Morbus]

where's my 0-day, yo!

23:30:52 [AaronSw]

Morbus, I got my December mailing'

23:30:58 [AaronSw]

but there's no AS Studio

23:31:06 [Morbus]

and? and?

23:31:11 [Morbus]

bah!

23:31:24 [Morbus]

someone said it'd be avail to all ADC peeps next week.

23:31:28 [AaronSw]

cool

23:31:29 [Morbus]

see, i said peeps. this is a warez channel ;)

23:31:36 [AaronSw]

heh heh

23:31:56 [Morbus]

reintalling vpc tonight. getting ready for vpc 5 ;)

23:32:01 [AaronSw]

cool :)

23:32:46 [Morbus]

gotta look around for an osx/pc cdr drive too.

23:32:52 [Morbus]

that's gonna be the first purchase with my ora monies ;)

23:33:03 [GabeW]

actually Morbus, this is h@x0r channel

23:33:36 [Morbus]

ohh!? i don't know if i can fit in to this, what you say, h@x@r channel.

23:33:56 [GabeW]

Morbus - you aren't l33t enough

23:34:18 [Morbus]

damn. i guess that means i should leave,.

23:34:30 [GabeW]

go cat yourself to /dev/null, d00d

23:34:36 [AaronSw]

lol

23:35:09 [AaronSw]

man, getting a learner's sure is hard. you need to be registered in a driving course, and be in school and doing good and stuff

23:35:17 [AaronSw]

learner's permit that is

23:36:17 [Morbus]

being smarter than school isn't permitted?

23:36:28 [Morbus]

screw the car, just get a segway.

23:36:32 [AaronSw]

Well, you can take a GED or get a letter from the superintendent of schools

23:36:37 [AaronSw]

lol, yeah, i wish i had a segway

23:36:48 [AaronSw]

and they're making the GEDs harder on Jan 1, 2002

23:37:08 [AaronSw]

uh oh

23:37:23 [AaronSw]

i need to learn some twenty-first century skillz quick

23:40:28 [AaronSw]

wow, these new GEDs have real-world situations!

23:40:46 [Morbus]

"bobby has a segway. do you want one?"

23:40:50 [Morbus]

. o O ( this test is easy! )

23:40:58 [AaronSw]

heh heh heh

23:41:16 [AaronSw]

lol: "The Mathematics Test will introduce the use of the scientific calculator for one-half of the test and some questions will require testers to fill in the correct answer."

23:41:29 [AaronSw]

some questions?!

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23:53:49 [GabeW]

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