00:00:12 * AaronSw disconnects 00:00:22 * AaronSw reconnects 00:00:47 * AaronSw disconnects 00:01:24 * AaronSw reconnects 00:02:05 Probles? 00:02:09 Problems? 00:02:19 Problems?!! 00:02:21 Boy, do I have problems. 00:02:34 you only had to say "yes" :-) 00:02:39 "_ 00:02:42 :), even 00:02:46 oierw`` is now known as oierw` 00:02:57 I'm an @Home victim. 00:03:09 @ http://www.alethea.demon.co.uk/thesis/ 00:03:13 A: Resource Re-Discovery: Personal resource storage and retrieval on the WorldWideWeb from AaronSw 00:03:30 A::via [mnot|http://www.mnot.net] 00:03:31 commented item A 00:03:45 "You know that what you eat you are / but what is sweet now soon turns sour." 00:05:04 56k is paaaaaaaaainful. 00:07:27 00:08:48 all your love are belong to us 00:09:01 do you have to put the space in? 00:09:12 What space? 00:10:19 Oh -- just for HTML compatibility. 00:10:45 ah 00:11:03 hey, some of us have to cope with 56KB, Windows, and a single monitor, Aaron. Welcome to the real world 00:11:17 Pah, real world. 00:11:23 I didn't ask to be born into a developing country! 00:11:31 It's amazing how this stupid modem makes my whole machine slow. 00:11:52 makes your machine slow? you must have an odd machine :-) 00:12:08 Well it spends all it's time waiting on the modem, I guess. 00:12:31 perhaps... I think some are like that 00:12:35 * oierw` is going to hate modem 00:12:43 acutally... i don't own one :p 00:12:55 pah, you and your mediaone 00:12:55 but i'm losing my cable when i'm at school, atleast for a bit 00:12:57 tell those little mice to squeak a bit quicker 00:16:11 * sbp listens to some Lou Reed 00:16:23 "Take a Walk on the Wild Side" 00:18:53 * AaronSw wonders whether desperate times call for desperate measures... like links 00:19:05 hey, you never set that up for me, deltab 00:19:15 Aaron, is it against Jewish law to eat/drink stock? 00:19:28 stock? 00:19:37 yeah, like Beef stock 00:20:06 I dunno what that is, but there are some parts of an animal that you can't eat, yeah. 00:20:21 .google "Beef stock" 00:20:21 "Beef stock": http://www.culinarycafe.com/Soups-Stews/Beef_Stock.html 00:20:48 * sbp plays Bob Marley, Exodus 00:21:30 Ugh... reading that could put one off of gravy for a while :-) 00:21:45 Heh heh. 00:21:58 * sbp sips his OXO 00:23:00 We had some great laughs today playing the British-to-English Translation Game. 00:23:10 Lisa: Ugh, I just lost my appetite 00:23:16 oops, sorry... 00:23:21 Homer: Ugh, I just lost my appetite 00:23:25 Lisa: Me too 00:23:30 Homer: Wait! Mine came back 00:23:41 British to English??? 00:23:52 Err, American. 00:24:03 "Aaron, what's a [British word for one-way ticket]." "What you'll get if you don't behave there!" 00:24:39 oierw` has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 00:24:52 Me in faux English accent: I think I'm going to go take a little nappy. 00:25:00 nappy? 00:25:36 Laugh, Aaron. Come on, faucet! 00:26:43 oierw` (mathew@nic-118-c81-56.mn.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack 00:27:33 faucet? 00:27:42 That's how you spell it right? nappy. 00:28:00 I was making a pun on "nap". 00:28:00 I believe so; it's not a term I use all that often 00:28:11 That's how you spell it right? faucet. 00:28:22 I was making a pun on "force it". 00:28:27 It American? I guess so. 00:28:35 :-) 00:28:51 Ah, that wouldn't make sense since you don't speak with a British accent on IRC. ;-) 00:29:25 We were reading in the guidebook about the mail order places for "designer nappies". 00:30:04 * AaronSw can't imagine spending 14 days in the bandwidth equivalent of Afghanistan. 00:34:32 AaronSw: by that, you mean similar to the entire country, correct? 00:34:54 I dunno. 00:35:00 i mean, we are talking about a country that had it's first cross-country road built across it in 1970 00:38:58 Cool, I didn't know they had a railroad. 00:39:10 Where's Morbus? 00:39:20 The Python OSA guy says that the version out is basically 1.0. 00:39:29 http://home.pacbell.net/fancher/OSA_Python/OSA_Python_Notes.html 00:39:40 But it doesn't seem to be on his site... :-( 00:43:23 * AaronSw disconnects 00:43:34 * AaronSw reconnects 00:45:32 c'ya dinnertime 00:51:27 back 00:54:20 I'm going to have to move into the office or something. 01:01:52 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 01:03:37 sbp (~sean@m91-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:04:03 wb 01:04:22 Heh heh heh! http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/01dec/xuf003701.gif 01:05:32 ty 01:05:42 np 01:06:19 * AaronSw wonders whether to help Paul Newman http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/newman_arctic/forward/ws87u5r278x66x 01:07:01 what can I do about urllib timing out after about 5 seconds? it doesn't get really large pages 01:07:17 Isn't that configurable? 01:07:33 .google urllib timeout 01:07:33 I'm not sure 01:07:34 urllib timeout: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-April/001298.html 01:08:05 That says there is no timeout... 01:08:18 What makes you think there is one? 01:08:43 when I try to get a large resource, it doesn't get it 01:08:53 Can you give me an example? 01:09:05 I wrote a script to get me the CWM modules, but it won't get notation3.py and llyn.py 01:09:29 .py import urllib 01:09:39 .py import urllib 01:09:40 ImportError: untrusted dynamic module: _socket 01:09:44 hmmph 01:10:39 * AaronSw does it locally 01:10:41 * AaronSw twiddles thumbs... 01:10:44 Hmm, works for me. 01:10:48 101344 chars 01:10:54 >>> import urllib 01:10:54 >>> urllib.urlopen('http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/llyn.py') 01:10:54 ', mode 'rb' at 0x5419f0>> 01:10:54 >>> len(urllib.urlopen('http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/llyn.py').read()) 01:10:54 101344 01:11:40 Heh: "Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN." 01:12:22 The EFF needs your help. 01:12:32 Larry Lessig wants YOU to donate. 01:13:42 use urllib.urlretrieve 01:13:54 - http://www.eff.org/support/ 01:14:13 what's urlretrieve do? 01:15:41 [[[ 01:15:42 urlretrieve(url[, filename[, reporthook[, data]]]) 01:15:42 Copy a network object denoted by a URL to a local file, if necessary. If the URL points to a local file, or a valid cached copy of the object exists, the object is not copied. Return a tuple (filename, headers) where filename is the local file name under which the object can be found, and headers is either None (for a local object) or whatever the info() method of the object returned by urlopen() returned (for a remote object, possibly cached). Excepti 01:15:42 ]]] 01:15:48 " can be found, and headers is either None (for a local object) or whatever the info() method of the object returned by urlopen() returned (for a remote object, possibly cached). Exceptions are the same as for urlopen(). " 01:19:12 AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'read' 01:19:14 Hmm. 01:24:16 """ 01:24:18 Ironically the original, post-NeXT acquisition developer roadmapmaintained Windows portability in the form of the Yellow Box APIs, which as Apple explained let you run code on "Rhapsody for Intel, Windows 95, and Windows NT." In its day, this technology (NeXTStep/OPENSTEP) was supported by Sun, HP and DEC too. But after taking the reins at Apple, Jobs ensure applications written for the APIs would remain on Mac hardware. 01:24:18 Oh - unless they are written for WebObjects, which Apple supports on Solaris and Windows 2000. Got that? 01:24:19 "" 01:24:20 " 01:24:23 - http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23113.html 01:26:31 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 01:26:44 sbp (~sean@m157-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 01:29:04 Hmm, MPW is pretty nice. 01:29:23 i recognize something named mpw 01:29:28 what is mpw? 01:29:33 Err, the font in this context. 01:29:38 ah 01:29:39 It's the Mac Programmers Workbench. 01:29:39 whew 01:29:44 ah yes... 01:30:04 it's used to be the only way i could unlock some of my programs back in school 01:30:11 Heh. 01:30:12 noone else could do anything with it though :p 01:30:22 School used/uses Macs? 01:30:33 yeah 01:30:40 it's got these nice bold <>s 01:33:20 See http://treedragon.com/ged/map/fg/mpw-font.gif if you care. ;-) 01:33:38 I'm not so big on the ()s. 01:34:15 And the bottoms of the ws look sorta funny. 01:45:55 * AaronSw disconnects 01:46:06 * AaronSw reconnects 01:47:28 at least I don't get busy signals. 01:49:03 CiLiNGiR (~mfr@d212-151-245-3.swipnet.se) has joined #swhack 01:49:13 CiLiNGiR has left #swhack 01:49:16 A bunch of IRC log nostalgia in #esp reminds me why I keep logs again. 01:53:44 xena has quit (Excess Flood) 01:56:21 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 02:05:46 sbp, did you ever get amk crypto working? 02:05:58 nope, and I spent all day working on it 02:06:10 I downloaded quite a lot of stuff, but just gave in in the end 02:06:18 it doesn't seem as if it was set up for Windows users 02:06:37 Likely not. 02:06:41 What does it do that you wanted? 02:07:54 it's got loads of cool functions in it, signature checking etc. 02:09:31 Really? That's quite neat. 02:09:53 But it's got C, I assume? 02:10:11 Zooko has a lot of Python crypto stuff in Mojo Nation that he's got compiled for Windows... 02:10:30 He uses the Crypto++ libs, which we can't get to work on OS X tho... 02:11:22 oierw` found me some pure py crypto lib... 02:11:32 well, it requires OpenSSL, which I tried to compile (and did successfully, after getting 2 C++ compilers and Perl), but then it barfed on other stuff, and the dependencies were just getting annoying 02:12:10 Ah, Pisces... 02:12:14 http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/software/pisces/ 02:12:16 I even tried to do it in CygWin, but it would have noen of that. It didn't help that for some reason I have hardly any environment space, and couldn't be bothered to fix it, so I ended up keep moving files by ahnd 02:12:25 "Pisces is a Python implementation of the SPKI Certificate standard." 02:12:32 "SPKI (Simple Public Key Infrastructure) consists of a key certificate and signature formats and associated protocols that support security for a wide range of applications. The SPKI protocol is simple to understand, use, and implement." 02:12:55 Looks to be pure py -- mostly at least 02:13:04 try Dependencies in http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/software/pisces/download.html 02:13:11 I barf on it 02:13:18 Oh, heh. 02:13:26 Well, parts of it are Pure Python. 02:13:29 heh 02:14:07 * AaronSw does a fink install openssl 02:15:01 I managed to get OpenSSL working... I was quite surprised. I think I stumbled in trying to compile mxCrypto 02:15:21 Watching the xena logs makes me feel so omniscient... 02:15:26 I feel like tav. 02:15:35 it has a Makefile, and my computer didn't like it, even in CygWin 02:15:45 hmz 02:16:17 wtf are deus_x and dngxor? 02:16:23 the thing is, it took me, a casual user, a day to download all manner of stuff, and it didn't even come close to working. If we want people to use the Crypto stuff, then it should be as easy to install as Python itself 02:17:24 tav, they're alternately dice and programmers. 02:17:47 dice ? 02:17:53 sbp, yeah, Mojo Nation gives compiled versions to Windows users. 02:17:53 So it just runs. 02:18:12 yeah, like roll 2d6 02:18:35 damnit, i wish dancer whois wasn't so fucked 02:18:45 maybe if i have oper powers, i can do proper whois 02:18:50 "Change to the mxCrypto subdirectory of the package and run make -f Makefile.pre.in boot" - http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/mxCrypto.html 02:19:02 sbp: looked at akm's stuff? 02:19:07 akm? nope 02:19:13 .google akm Python crypto 02:19:14 no results found. 02:19:18 .google akm Python 02:19:42 oh, amk! 02:19:42 ehm 02:19:49 amk 02:19:49 s/akm/amk 02:19:51 yea 02:19:52 yes, of course. That's what I've been trying to install 02:20:10 it sneakily has mxCrypto in it 02:20:16 tav, what sort of "proper whois"? 02:20:29 you just can't escape mxCrypto! Aaaaaaaargh! damn thing :-) 02:20:31 one which tells you what channels people are on 02:20:36 oh geez, i forgot I'm on a 55k line here -- openssl will take forever to get 02:21:08 tav, um it does that. 02:21:22 Oh shoot, it stopped?! 02:21:33 oh, phew, no. 02:21:39 They're just not on any other channels. 02:21:47 They're from another network, I gather. 02:22:12 ehm 02:22:15 w/i sbp 02:22:26 sbp: mode sbp +i 02:22:38 after that you can't see what channels he's on 02:22:47 oh. 02:22:48 well if they want to be invisible.. 02:22:56 sbp, don't do it. 02:26:13 * sbp not only does it, but adds it to his command list :-) 02:43:28 looks like openssl might be working... 02:53:56 maybe not :( 02:55:20 @ mailto:bfancherREMOVE_CAPITALIZED@mac.com 02:55:21 B: mailto:bfancherREMOVE_CAPITALIZED@mac.com from AaronSw 02:55:41 B:|OSA Python Available! 02:55:42 titled item B 02:56:09 B::Just email Bill Fancher (email address above -- take out the obvious spam blocking bit) and ask him for it. 02:56:10 commented item B 02:58:31 OSA? 03:00:30 B::A Python OSA (Open Scripting Architecture plugin) allows you to script your Macintosh from Python. So you can have it automatically do things like check your mail, grab photos from your camera, build a webpage, create maps of the US based on temperature data from a Web service... 03:00:31 commented item B 03:01:50 unF 03:02:10 unF? 03:02:49 neat stuff 03:03:08 Indeed. 03:03:23 aww, look at http://www.apple.com/ 03:08:41 .date 03:08:42 Sun, 02 Dec 2001 03:10:14 Universal 03:09:13 .time 03:09:15 2001/12/02 03:10:47.1784 Universal 03:10:23 indeed. Well, it is George Harrison, after all... 03:11:32 Yeah. 03:12:17 * AaronSw tries to think of OS X Python programmers he knows... 03:13:39 As CWM adds more an more Python related built-ins, and Python itself gets Webized, I wonder where the meeting point will be? :-) 03:14:06 Hm, that'll be interesting. :) 03:26:42 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds) 03:37:14 sbp (~sean@m344-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 03:45:54 OSA Python is fun! 03:48:00 Aaron, what did you think about my little "Being Clear" rant? 03:48:05 Been through it yet? 03:48:12 Where's it to? 03:48:30 I sorta, um, gave up on reading email from lists. 03:48:39 uri and www-rdf-interest 03:48:53 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001Dec/0000 03:49:13 heh, first post! 03:49:31 yeah :-) 03:55:02 How do you know about the "URC days"? 03:55:58 Wow, long email there. 04:00:32 yeah, it did get pretty long 04:00:42 and there was stuff that I missed out, too :-) 04:00:49 URC days: through the Web, of course 04:04:23 got some links for the chump? 04:09:33 such as? 04:10:20 i dunno, that's why i'm asking ;) 04:16:34 ah :-) 04:16:45 I've not done a load of browsing: busy hacking stuff 04:17:00 me too 04:19:27 dngxor has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 04:24:34 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 04:24:48 sbp (~sean@m344-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 04:28:29 * sbp updates RDF Lint a little bit 04:28:36 @ http://infomesh.net/2001/05/rdflint/ 04:28:38 C: infomesh.net - /2001/05/rdflint/ from sbp 04:28:44 C:|RDF Lint 04:28:45 titled item C 04:28:54 C::These are basically a set of Notation3 rules files that come to a load of deductions based upon the data in some RDF files, and a filter file that can then find inconsistencies. 04:28:55 commented item C 04:36:49 Hmm... I feel like adding some more string built-ins to CWM :-) 04:41:26 Heh heh heh. 05:02:13 @ http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2000/10/swap/cwm.py?rev=1.32&content-type=text/plain 05:02:16 D: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2000/10/swap/cwm.py?rev=1.32&content-type=text/plain from sbp 05:02:32 D:|CWM 1.32 05:02:33 titled item D 05:02:34 D::$Id: cwm.py,v 1.32 2001/04/05 21:33:55 timbl Exp $ 05:02:35 commented item D 05:02:38 D::Scary stuff! 05:02:39 commented item D 05:03:19 D::What's so scary? 05:03:20 commented item D 05:05:09 sbp? 05:05:13 D::Heh, heh, heh 05:05:14 commented item D 05:05:33 what? 05:06:11 You mean to say that you understand what every single function does, is for, and should do? 05:06:33 No... But I don't now either ;) 05:08:15 Yeah, good point 05:08:34 D::[http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/llyn.py|Llyn] is pretty much the same 05:08:35 commented item D 05:09:06 * AaronSw plays with Python 2.2b2 a little. 05:11:02 Aha: from __future__ import generators 05:12:37 I think I'm going to make rdfapi use generators instead of returning a list. 05:14:13 Cool, file iterators work. 05:16:43 @ http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/warts.html 05:16:47 E: Python Warts from AaronSw 05:17:07 E::I like how all of these are being fixed. ;-) 05:17:08 commented item E 05:18:18 Shoot, no airport -- i can't pick up my laptop :( 05:18:18 brb 05:23:40 Gota run 05:23:42 er... 05:23:44 Gotta run 05:23:48 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 05:23:48 He! 05:23:52 err Heh! 05:23:59 That's the first time I've seen him mispell it. 06:01:08 xena has quit (Remote closed the connection) 06:02:52 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 06:09:12 .dns 63.49.183.109 06:09:12 63.49.183.109 - pool-63.49.183.109.troy.grid.net 06:38:14 I better get off to bed... 06:48:32 * AaronSw disconnects 10:30:16 tav has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 11:30:17 xena has quit (Remote closed the connection) 11:33:02 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 13:34:52 dngxor (abuse@m83.nationwideinc.com) has joined #swhack 14:52:49 tav (~tav@host217-34-80-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 15:16:45 xena has quit () 15:18:01 xena (xena@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 15:54:21 * AaronSw reconnects 15:55:39 AaronSw has changed the topic to: What is IT? 16:08:08 @ http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/01dec/xuf003720.gif 16:08:15 F: http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/01dec/xuf003720.gif from AaronSw 16:08:22 F:|Feel My Pain 16:08:23 titled item F 16:09:33 F::I'm an @Home victim. For years I've had high-speed Internet: ISDN, DSL, Cable. Now I'm back to dialup. It feels like life in sloooow moootion. 16:09:34 commented item F 16:11:22 F::According to [their press release|http://www.att.com/press/item/0,1354,4100,00.html] we should be moved in the next 2-10 days. Oregon and Vancouver were the first to be moved. If I'm reading their list right, we should be next (Chicago). 16:11:22 commented item F 16:13:01 F::The guys on tech support sound like robots. "Your service will be up and running soon" they say. How soon? "You will receive a call with more information." Can you give me a ballpark estimate? "Your service will be up and running soon." 16:13:02 commented item F 16:23:21 sbp (~sean@m60-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:23:31 IT came from the DEEP. 16:23:47 Ginger? 16:23:54 Yeah, hi. 16:24:24 Hi 16:35:04 How are you? 16:35:19 Pretty good, you? 16:35:26 I got the amkCrypto stuff to work. 16:35:33 You needed to comment out one line in setup.py 16:35:41 Took me a while to figure that out... 16:37:09 Hmm... 16:37:16 But on Windows? :-) 16:37:32 What was the error you got? 16:38:04 it couldn't find the mxCrypto module 16:38:36 But it comes with it! 16:38:49 You were doing `python setup.py install` right? 16:38:53 yes 16:39:15 * sbp searches for mxCrypto.py 16:39:18 That's a little odd... 16:39:32 o files found 16:39:37 s/o/0/ 16:39:57 that's not really relevant... 16:40:13 there's a directory called mxCrypto, right? 16:40:21 inside amkCrypto-0.1.3 16:40:33 yep 16:41:05 Hmm. 16:41:13 And what's the exact error? 16:41:55 in Python, it simply can't import mxCrypto 16:42:15 What are you doing? 16:42:20 mxCrypto itself has some stuff that seems to need making... I couldn't make it 16:42:42 You're in amkCrypto directory and typing python setup.py install, right? 16:43:00 hang on a sec... 16:44:19 right, sorry about that; I was eating. Difficult to type :-) 16:44:34 now, I'll uninstall the whole lot and try again as a fresh approach 16:46:26 error: command cl.exe failed: No such file or directory 16:48:13 Aha! 16:48:25 Now this is a reasonable error. 16:49:36 Looks like you need a compiler of some sort. 16:50:13 Try 3.1.2 of http://www.python.org/doc/current/inst/non-ms-compilers.html 16:50:58 sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m688-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com))) 16:51:14 sbp (~sean@m688-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:51:45 * sbp reads http://www.python.org/doc/current/inst/non-ms-compilers.html 16:52:00 Heh heh heh: http://www.strout.net/python/ai/ 16:52:22