00:02:46 hmz 00:03:15 ah, hi tav 00:11:26 elmaestro (inets@B5bec.pppool.de) has joined #swhack 00:12:05 Hi there 01:20:33 elmaestro has left #swhack 01:22:07 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 02:07:34 sbp (~sean@m25-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 02:30:42 Some thoughts on Plex... 02:30:42 http://web.archive.org/web/19970606153236/www.w3.org/People/Connolly/drafts/formalism.html is interesting 02:31:27 I'm wondering how Plex might be able to solve many of the traditional "problems" of HTTP; requirement of a server, difficulty in keeping updates, etc. 02:31:34 and adding metadata... difficult 02:31:49 trust and authentication is also made painfully difficult 02:32:31 Freenet is in what appears to be the right direction, but it just makes everything *soooo* difficult 02:32:38 the keys and so forth should be transparent, like TimBL always argues 02:33:18 I should be able to write out a page, or a bit of text, or whatever, in a Plex text client, and save it straight to a little bit of Plex space 02:33:51 there'll be a link to the actual data itself (the representation), and a link to a threaded concept (the resource) 02:34:13 So, for example, I might say "save my homepage to plex:sbp" 02:34:56 and it'll register somewhere (er... in the Plex, cached locally might be best) that it has saved it, and let me know of the previous data for plex:sbp 02:35:06 when you think about it, people are starting to have more memory than data 02:35:40 if Alexa and Google can keep a hold of billions of Web pages, it only requires a few really decent Plex servers, and it'll be sorted 02:36:04 paying for decent HTTP Web space is a bit of a silly idea 02:36:49 I wonder if it would be possible to build up a decent set of resources using Alexa/Google/www-archive/Freenet/FreeWebSpace? :-) 02:37:17 Plex should make such things seamless. It won't, but it should do 02:37:32 Of course, authentication is always going to be the problem 02:38:02 When you generally pubish a Web page, it's because you own the server (so can publish locally), or hold a password to an FTP server, or whatever 02:39:02 On the Plex, I've no idea how a "concept" URI will be maintained. Well, there's the choice of a password that the user remembers, or a digital signature in the client. Or, perhaps a choice of either or both 02:39:49 Personally, I'd favor the digital signature, because it means that things will be more automated: I just say "publish here", and let my client take care of the tricky things for me 02:40:10 OF course, Plex should also blur the boundaries slightly between protocols 02:40:31 I like the way that Roy and Mark talk about HTTP... 02:40:57 You have the noun, and then the methods that you apply to it. That makes for some flexible, and yet easily implementable, architecture 02:41:26 You could have the URI representing "you" doing different things depending upon the method 02:42:37 PUT plex:sbp (me publishing the page), GET plex:sbp (gets the latest corresp. repr. of the concept, me), MAIL plex:sbp (why not? mail me), and perhaps some more stuff 02:42:53 as for the obvious discussion about plex URIs... 02:43:25 I don't like Freenet's approach of using 89r34ht89235-t982989-h7-94h type strings for identifiers 02:43:49 because even when the technology is transparent, you still have to refer to URIs in plain text. It's an inescapable fact. People have to remember URIs 02:44:41 Now, perhaps each node could have a hash, just a short thing: 2001-849y948t 02:45:06 that would be difficult, but not impossible, to remember, and it would yeild quite a few identifiers 02:45:21 lets say 7^36 per year 02:45:39 that's 2651730845859653471779023381601 02:45:43 more than enough :-) 02:46:23 Well, it could be extensible anyway. Five characters would probably do at first 02:46:35 5^36 = 14551915228366851806640625 02:46:38 still ample 02:46:50 plex:2001-9jr0s:sbp 02:47:40 Hmm... you'll probably have people trading clients or something stupid like that, just to get easy-to-remember names 02:47:58 anyway, I guess that this step isn't important yet until the implementations get nailed down 02:48:24 I'd like to know how Plex will integrate with HTTP. HTTP is just so efficient, and it's too good at beign authoritative 02:49:22 I like the wonderous "everything lasts forever on the Plex unless you delete it, and even then, it might not go" 02:50:01 We may find people starting to redirect HTTP into Plex space. Well, if Plex ever takes off, which it probably won't. We can dream, though 02:50:20 in fact, I'm going to make a redirect right now 02:50:37 I hereby reserve "2001-9jr0s" for all my Plexly needs 02:51:33 and let's set up the redirect... 02:53:02 well, this is rather slow... 02:55:14 oops, I meant 36^5, of course! 02:55:29 which is only 60466176 02:55:40 Pffff, that's still enough for now 02:56:37 ta da:- 02:56:43 http://infomesh.net/2001/11/plex-sbp/ => plex:2001-9jr0s:sbp 02:57:39 well, that was rather pointless. We now need some software to recognize the "plex:" scheme, deploy it on a wide basis, etc. 02:58:48 at least there will be no confusion about names and addresses on Plex. Because the data can be anywhere! The name is all that counts... man, the search algorithms are going to have to be good. Who's programming this, anyway? Oh, yeah... 02:59:36 Hmm... where did Aaron put those "cool features of Plex" again? Perhaps they're on plexdev.org 03:00:24 Pff... who's in charge of redesigning that page? It's absolutely terrible as it is! Oh, hang on again... 03:00:45 Grgpmrpgmrgh, not found: http://plexdev.org/applications 03:01:17 oh man, everything's "not found" 03:02:30 Well, anyway, one was mailing people who may not exist for a long time to come. I'm not actually sure how that will work. Hw do you prove that you are (for example) the fifth generational descendent of John Smith? That's pretty difficult, unless you beg to soem centralized agency 03:03:03 I'm really not sure how Plex can handle that. Of course, if you're just sending postcard Plexmail, then it's easy (read: easier) 03:03:22 It just invloves a search. Probably quite a complex search, but a do-able search 03:03:43 tav has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 03:04:13 Oh trust tav to ruin the run of "sbp" :-) 03:05:29 I can't help but feel that all of this will be assigned to the scrap heap, though. It's a nice idea, but lots of nice ideas don't go anywhere 03:07:23 anyway, that was a fun rant. We should do this again sometime :-) 03:10:00 Gotta run 03:10:02 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 04:25:52 Fernando (~root@host-209-214-4-144.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #swhack 04:26:21 I need to find out how to get a password for a web based email server 04:48:31 tav` has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 04:56:06 Fernando has quit ("Client Exiting") 06:20:22 sbp: the keys can be clientside and embedded into a document as needed 06:20:39 * oierw` figures he can read that 06:20:44 same with freenet btw 07:29:59 oierw` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:30:35 oierw` (mathew@nic-118-c81-56.mn.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack 10:42:25 tav` (tav@host217-34-80-252.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 16:09:33 sbp (~sean@m836-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 16:11:21 Hmm... we need a better topic 16:15:29 sbp has changed the topic to: "sometimes i write poetry and do interpretative dance" - Secret Confessions Of Morbus 18:09:57 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 19:21:09 BenSw (~Noah@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 19:22:17 (#G1::E010M1) hello 19:22:43 (#G810E910M1) .date 19:23:17 (#G910E678M1) .DATE 19:31:20 (#G;10E910M5) BenSw Ben tests out Microsoft comic chat 19:32:21 BenSw has left #swhack 20:10:16 sbp (~sean@m705-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:28:34 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 20:33:25 sbp (~sean@m86-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 20:35:10 Whither prescriptivism? 20:35:50 We should have an #swhack list of things that suck... I'd probably add prescriptivism 20:37:13 @ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2001OctDec/0389 20:37:16 A: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2001OctDec/0389 from sbp 20:37:32 A:|Re: Clear and simple writing 20:37:33 titled item A 20:37:45 A::My little retort to the thread 20:37:46 commented item A 20:45:40 @ http://www.bcp.psych.ualberta.ca/~mike/Pearl_Street/Margin/GREEN/Chap2.html 20:45:43 B: Dawson Margin Notes On Green Chapter 2 from sbp 20:45:56 B::Cool "new" word: """Boxologies""" 20:45:57 commented item B 20:46:15 B::Original context: """Cognitive scientific theories are often represented as box/arrow diagrams (NB: Boxologies!) This is not a flowchart, because boxes don't represent decisions.""" 20:46:16 commented item B 20:46:20 B::Reminds me of DLGs 20:46:22 commented item B 20:52:17 BenSw`` (~BenSw``@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 20:52:26 Hello 20:52:32 Hmm... how many 800x600 screenfuls constitute 2000 words? 20:52:36 Oh, hi there Ben 20:52:46 I'm using irctoons 20:53:04 wonderful; fun for all the family 20:53:08 31337 20:53:57 Hmm... 25 wpl, 20 lps 20:54:09 so, that's 500 wps 20:54:53 * sbp stares at people who sp311 words with numbers 20:55:16 I mean, how is a "7" meant to look like a "T"? WTF is that all about? 20:55:23 it looks like a 7 20:59:25 its l33t 20:59:35 in l33t speak 21:01:32 there's some tlak in #python about what URIs, URLs etc. are 21:01:34 Yep. And it sucks. Add it to the list :-) 21:01:46 * sbp runs there 21:16:45 BenSw`` has quit (Remote closed the connection) 21:28:19 oierw` has quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds) 21:29:17 oierw` (mathew@nic-118-c81-56.mn.mediaone.net) has joined #swhack 21:54:00 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 21:55:03 sbp (~sean@m25-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com) has joined #swhack 22:29:37 elmaestro (inets@B58c0.pppool.de) has joined #swhack 22:29:39 hi 22:30:31 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds) 22:38:24 elmaestro has left #swhack 22:56:25 BenSw (~yoda@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 22:56:30 Hi 23:29:12 * AaronSw reconnects 23:34:50 tav, your genius scheme broke the entire site: http://plexdev.org/applications 23:36:02 Aha! BenSw: [19:22] # Appears as ANNA. 23:36:03 BenSw: [19:23] # Appears as XENO. 23:36:13 BenSw: [19:23] (#G1::E010M1) hello