IRC log of swhack on 2001-11-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

01:49:00 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@pFAs09a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack
01:54:06 [AaronSw]
hey sbp
01:54:08 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.cs.unc.edu/~cutts/toolbarbeta.html
01:54:10 [chumpster]
A: Toolbar Beta from AaronSw
01:54:25 [sbp]
Hi there
01:54:25 [AaronSw]
A:|Beta of New Google Toolbar
01:54:26 [chumpster]
titled item A
01:54:34 [sbp]
* sbp emerges from many hours of Java hacking
01:54:40 [AaronSw]
A::Let's you "rate" web pages
01:54:41 [chumpster]
commented item A
01:54:44 [AaronSw]
Java hacking? Ooh
01:58:47 [AaronSw]
Yeah, Python just gets cooler and cooler.
01:59:05 [AaronSw]
I was reading some of the Python docs today and there are some neat new features lined up.
01:59:12 [sbp]
It certainly does. Why do you say that?
01:59:40 [AaronSw]
Because you mentioned Java hacking...
02:00:00 [sbp]
yeah. It takes so much more effort to do something in Java than it does in Python
02:00:25 [AaronSw]
Python just makes everything so effortless -- it's great.
02:00:46 [sbp]
The cool thing is that the code just kinda appears as you write it down
02:01:00 [sbp]
I mean, you don't have to worry so much about nesting, and typing, and all that
02:01:42 [AaronSw]
exactly
02:02:59 [AaronSw]
Did you see Zooko's comparison of compressed code?
02:03:22 [AaronSw]
@ http://zooko.com/shootout-compress.html
02:03:24 [chumpster]
B: Language Shootout Compressed Source Code Size from AaronSw
02:03:37 [AaronSw]
B::Zooko does some interesting measurements.
02:03:38 [chumpster]
commented item B
02:05:23 [sbp]
Java's way down the list. Perl does suprisingly well
02:05:43 [sbp]
s/suprisingly/surprisingly/
02:05:56 [AaronSw]
well, it is very terse
02:06:13 [sbp]
I guess
02:07:31 [sbp]
I wonder how Befunge would do
02:07:45 [AaronSw]
Oh dear: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1297092893
02:07:52 [AaronSw]
You should enter a befunge version!
02:08:17 [sbp]
106? Oh dear...
02:08:30 [sbp]
er.. 108
02:08:41 [sbp]
* sbp turns screen contrast up...
02:09:25 [AaronSw]
you or deltab should submit a befunge version
02:09:42 [sbp]
submit to who? Zooko?
02:09:48 [AaronSw]
to the language shootout
02:09:53 [AaronSw]
http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/
02:09:57 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@n146-243.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
02:10:02 [AaronSw]
hey tansaku
02:10:06 [tansaku]
hey all
02:10:11 [sbp]
Hi there
02:10:13 [AaronSw]
sbp, tansaku wants to know why Python is better than Java
02:10:19 [AaronSw]
tansaku is a Java coder
02:10:22 [sbp]
heh, heh!
02:10:56 [tansaku]
I've just manages to get irc libs for Java and Python
02:11:21 [AaronSw]
I hacked ircShaney up in Python in just a minute or two -- that's how easy it is. :)
02:11:32 [tansaku]
Right now, I can hack faster in Java, but since xena and blanubot are in Python, makes me feel like I should go that way too
02:11:33 [sbp]
try http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html
02:11:54 [tansaku]
AaronSw: but I did the same with bob2 and it took almost no time really
02:12:08 [tansaku]
* tansaku checks sbp's link
02:13:21 [tansaku]
* tansaku will read link after he's had a shower
02:13:26 [tansaku]
* tansaku goes to have a shower
02:13:26 [sbp]
I'd guess that if you had learned Python at the same time as Java, you would have a) picked up Python quicker, and b) have been able to code much faster in Python now than Java
02:13:31 [sbp]
c'ya
02:13:48 [tansaku]
sbp: maybe true - will get back to you on thaqt
02:14:06 [sbp]
@ http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html
02:14:11 [chumpster]
C: A subjective analysis of two high-level, object-oriented languages from sbp
02:14:23 [sbp]
C:|A subjective analysis of two high-level, object-oriented languages
02:14:24 [chumpster]
titled item C
02:14:31 [sbp]
C::Comparing Python to Java
02:14:31 [chumpster]
commented item C
02:14:36 [AaronSw]
B::He uses stuff from [the language shootout|http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/] to do his tests.
02:14:37 [chumpster]
commented item B
02:14:47 [AaronSw]
umm, sbp, it was already titled that.
02:14:58 [AaronSw]
<chumpster> Notice: C: A subjective analysis of two high-level, object-oriented languages from sbp
02:15:11 [sbp]
oh well, there you go
02:15:20 [sbp]
C::"""The console test was impressive to me: Java's performance was *astonishingly* bad. Combined with the long initialisation time, this makes Java a completely unsuitable language for streams-based programming."""
02:15:21 [chumpster]
commented item C
02:15:38 [AaronSw]
Heh:
02:15:38 [AaronSw]
v=['a','b','c','d','e','f','g']
02:15:38 [AaronSw]
vs.
02:15:38 [AaronSw]
Vector v = new Vector();
02:15:38 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("a");
02:15:39 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("b");
02:15:41 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("c");
02:15:43 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("d");
02:15:45 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("e");
02:15:47 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("f");
02:15:49 [AaronSw]
v.addElement("g");
02:15:51 [AaronSw]
OK, that does it for me. :)
02:16:00 [sbp]
I like the IO test
02:16:09 [sbp]
f=open('scratch','wb')
02:16:09 [sbp]
for i in xrange(1000000):
02:16:09 [sbp]
f.write(str(i))
02:16:09 [sbp]
f.close()
02:16:11 [sbp]
vs.
02:16:17 [sbp]
import java.io.*;
02:16:17 [sbp]
public class IOTest
02:16:17 [sbp]
{
02:16:17 [sbp]
public static void main(String[] args) {
02:16:18 [sbp]
try {
02:16:19 [sbp]
File f = new File("scratch");
02:16:22 [sbp]
PrintWriter ps = new PrintWriter(new OutputStreamWriter
02:16:23 [sbp]
(new FileOutputStream(f)));
02:16:25 [sbp]
for (int i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) {
02:16:27 [sbp]
ps.print(String.valueOf(i));
02:16:29 [sbp]
}
02:16:31 [sbp]
ps.close();
02:16:35 [sbp]
[...]
02:16:37 [sbp]
and so on...
02:16:38 [AaronSw]
I like the NoTest ;)
02:16:46 [sbp]
ooh, plus you could make the Python shorter
02:17:22 [sbp]
yeah, an infinite amount longer
02:17:48 [sbp]
C::"""[...] in order to do nothing in python, you write exactly that -- nothing. In order to successfully start up and do nothing in Java, you have to have a class definition with the correct name, with a main method..."""
02:17:49 [chumpster]
commented item C
02:23:19 [sbp]
@ http://www.rogermasse.com/papers/java-python96/
02:23:39 [chumpster]
D: http://www.rogermasse.com/papers/java-python96/ from sbp
02:23:50 [sbp]
D::"""A typical [Python] program requires less then one-third the amount of source code than any of the C derived languages, including Java."""
02:23:51 [chumpster]
commented item D
02:24:07 [sbp]
D::"""Python offers programmers conciseness, simplicity, and the short test cycle benefits of an interpretive environment. These features combine to enable rapid prototyping with more building and less writing."""
02:24:08 [chumpster]
commented item D
02:24:22 [AaronSw]
sbp, what you need is a Python -> Java translater. :)
02:25:27 [sbp]
well, duh :-)
02:25:37 [sbp]
a PyJava wiould be good
02:25:50 [sbp]
Jython kinda goes the wrong way around for me
02:26:04 [sbp]
.xena PyJava
02:26:08 [sbp]
erm...
02:26:13 [sbp]
.google PyJava
02:26:14 [xena]
PyJava: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~butler/jni/PyJava.html
02:26:44 [sbp]
D::"""Unlike Java, Python does not force the user to use object-orientation (Lutz, 1996, p53). As a result, the simplest programs are really simple."""
02:26:45 [chumpster]
commented item D
02:27:03 [AaronSw]
Yeah, that's what I like about Python -- it has bits from every style.
02:27:38 [sbp]
pff: "PyJava: Java Embedded in Python"
02:27:45 [sbp]
I want Python embedded in Java!
02:27:52 [AaronSw]
Isn't that Jython?
02:28:04 [sbp]
nope, that's Java functions in Python too
02:28:13 [sbp]
.google Jython
02:28:13 [AaronSw]
Umm, no.
02:28:14 [xena]
Jython: http://www.jython.org
02:28:23 [AaronSw]
" Jython is an implementation of the high-level, dynamic, object-oriented language Python written in 100% Pure Java, and seamlessly integrated with the Java platform"
02:28:50 [sbp]
* sbp just read that bit too, and nearly sobbed in delight
02:28:59 [AaronSw]
HEH.
02:29:04 [AaronSw]
oops, capslock
02:29:53 [sbp]
wow, look at the size of the thing
02:30:06 [AaronSw]
heh
02:31:46 [AaronSw]
Ooh, Zooko made the Daily Python-URL
02:31:46 [AaronSw]
http://www.pythonware.com/daily/
02:32:26 [AaronSw]
Aww, http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_441046.html
02:32:28 [sbp]
cool
02:32:41 [AaronSw]
The mommy gets to keep her Python
02:33:15 [AaronSw]
Oh, aweseom!!! The graph visualization is in Python!
02:35:46 [AaronSw]
Oh man, that rocks -- I'm going to have to make parse RDF, of course...
02:37:21 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
02:40:54 [AaronSw]
LOL! 8:54pm up 3 days, 2:13, 1 user, load average: 1006.55, 502.69, 198.22
02:41:15 [tansaku]
tansaku (~sam@n146-243.tokyu-net.catv.ne.jp) has joined #swhack
02:41:18 [AaronSw]
wb
02:41:30 [sbp]
"You'd have to be mad to be Aaron Swartz" - Sean B. Palmer, #swhack
02:41:36 [tansaku]
thanks dude
02:41:47 [AaronSw]
When'd you say that, sbp?
02:41:49 [tansaku]
* tansaku goes to make coffee - short break this time
02:42:04 [sbp]
just now. It's not often I come up with stuff that good, so I want people to cite it correctly
02:42:10 [AaronSw]
Heh.
02:42:13 [sbp]
:-)
02:42:31 [AaronSw]
BTW, the load average was not for my machine. It was for someone else's where they caught a fork bomb
02:42:49 [sbp]
what's a "load average"?
02:42:56 [sbp]
heh, heh, just kidding...
02:43:15 [AaronSw]
got dem on solaris?
02:43:28 [sbp]
dunno. I try not to use Solaris
02:44:32 [sbp]
@ http://www.dil.univ-mrs.fr/~chris/CoursP/Lwall-quotes.html
02:44:36 [chumpster]
E: Larry Wall Quotes ... from sbp
02:44:39 [sbp]
E::Wonderful stuff
02:44:40 [chumpster]
commented item E
02:45:51 [sbp]
E::"""double value; /* or your money back! */ short changed; /* so triple your money back! */ --Larry Wall in cons.c from the perl source code"""
02:45:52 [chumpster]
commented item E
02:46:17 [sbp]
Heh, putting a Larry Wall quote in a Python string can't be sensible...
02:48:47 [AaronSw]
Heh
02:54:54 [sbp]
@ http://www.wall.org/~larry/
02:55:02 [chumpster]
F: http://www.wall.org/~larry/ from sbp
02:55:23 [sbp]
F::Larry Wall is the only person I know who can put "I am Larry Wall" in his Geek Code
02:55:24 [chumpster]
commented item F
02:55:30 [AaronSw]
Heh.
02:58:06 [AaronSw]
Heh:
02:58:08 [AaronSw]
"naughty = ['sex', 'fuck', 'masturb', 'horny', 'porn']"
02:58:11 [AaronSw]
from gnut.py
02:58:24 [sbp]
heh, heh
02:59:17 [AaronSw]
Ugh, TKinter isn't out for OS X yet.
03:00:28 [sbp]
heh, heh, heh
03:03:32 [AaronSw]
http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/%7Erachna/courses/infoviz/gtv/code/gtv.zip
03:03:46 [AaronSw]
err http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/%7Erachna/courses/infoviz/gtv/code/gtv_source.zip
03:05:01 [BenSw]
* AaronSw uses BenSw's Linux box to try it...
03:05:49 [BenSw]
Know of a gnutella host?
03:08:01 [sbp]
try Google, perhaps?
03:08:11 [BenSw]
gnutella.hostsache.com, google says
03:08:20 [BenSw]
Ooh, two nodes!
03:10:36 [BenSw]
Hmm, doesn't seem to work behind my NAT box
03:10:56 [AaronSw]
still, pretty cool
03:13:09 [sbp]
Heh: "We don't want to see 'RTFM'. That isn't very helpful. Instead, guide the beginner to the place in the FM they should R :)" - http://learn.perl.org/beginners-faq
03:13:20 [AaronSw]
heh.
03:33:33 [tansaku]
router.limewire.com
03:34:34 [AaronSw]
Do i need to punch a hole in my NAT/Firewall?
03:37:53 [tansaku]
'pends
03:44:16 [sbp]
Gotta run
03:47:22 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
03:57:00 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack
04:04:16 [AaronSw]
Wow, "Ruby in a Nutshell" is written by the author, and translated... http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ruby/
04:05:06 [AaronSw]
Hmm, from a quick glance, Ruby looks like a cross between Python and Perl.
04:06:31 [GabeW]
hmm, that's sounds like a trainwreck, actually
04:10:27 [tansaku]
hm, read the java vs python, looks like the main different is the absence of curly brackets ;-)
04:11:08 [tansaku]
So for my python to work, I have to get the indentations perfect huh?
04:11:55 [AaronSw]
Well, not perfect -- it guves you some slack.
04:11:58 [AaronSw]
GabeW, my thoughts too
04:12:09 [AaronSw]
Like it'll trade tabs for spaces in most instances
04:12:15 [AaronSw]
i rarely have indentation problems
04:12:33 [tansaku]
I mean i hated indentation rules in FORTRAN
04:12:58 [GabeW]
if you are good at indenting code (which makes clean code anyway), you don't have to think about python indenting
04:13:02 [AaronSw]
Everyone comes into Python hating the indentation, but once you start coding, you don't notice it.
04:13:19 [GabeW]
also - I use emacs or idle (comes with python) and those auto-indent
04:13:45 [tansaku]
what about error handling - if I want to catch exceptions and use that as part of the control flow - do I have that option?
04:14:00 [GabeW]
try: except: -- just like java
04:15:18 [GabeW]
well, its try/catch in java
04:15:42 [tansaku]
hmm - guess I'll have a hack this afternoon.
05:15:38 [tav`]
tav` is now known as tav\sleep
05:48:03 [GabeW]
GabeW has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:48:09 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack
06:39:24 [GabeW]
GabeW is now known as HiroProtagonist
06:40:38 [HiroProtagonist]
HiroProtagonist has left #swhack
06:42:38 [tansaku]
tansaku is now known as legally_scottish
06:45:48 [legally_scottish]
legally_scottish is now known as tansaku_focusing_on_learning_p
06:46:18 [tansaku_focusing_on_learning_p]
tansaku_focusing_on_learning_p is now known as tansaku_focusing_on_python
07:07:12 [HiroProtagonist]
HiroProtagonist (~gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack
07:29:13 [HiroProtagonist]
HiroProtagonist is now known as GabeW
07:47:16 [tansaku_focusing_on_python]
tansaku_focusing_on_python is now known as tansaku_fails_to_work_on_pytho
07:52:06 [tansaku_fails_to_work_on_pytho]
tansaku_fails_to_work_on_pytho is now known as tansaku
08:02:59 [GabeW]
GabeW has left #swhack
12:31:25 [tansaku]
tansaku has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
14:57:36 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@p57s06a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack
15:02:18 [AaronSw]
hey sbp
15:02:55 [sbp]
Hi there
15:08:24 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
17:00:20 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@p9Fs10a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack
17:05:56 [sbp]
sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
18:02:08 [tav\sleep]
tav\sleep is now known as tav`
18:26:27 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack
18:29:14 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. We have another major server upgrade to go, and it occurs to me that now would be a good time to ask people some questions that would help us schedule upgrades. We don't have a polling mechanism set up, but if you could take the time to send us two pieces of information, we'd appreciate it.
18:30:15 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Send the following information to support@openprojects.net: What server you use to connect to us, and what times would be least annoying for you to experience server downtime. Give us times you're least likely to be on the network. Thanks!
18:31:59 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] To make it more clear, send the following data in an email to support@openprojects.net: (1) the server name you connect to us with, and (2) what times of day (including timezone in plain English) would be okay for us to recycle the servers (example, 2am to 5am Central European Time)
18:32:14 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Thanks all.
18:48:39 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
18:49:11 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
18:57:20 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0590221973/coolbooks02
18:57:27 [chumpster]
G: Amazon.com: Explore similar items from AaronSw
18:57:50 [AaronSw]
G:|A Drop of Water: A Book of Science and Wonder
18:57:51 [chumpster]
titled item G
18:57:56 [AaronSw]
G::This book is so beautiful...
18:57:58 [chumpster]
commented item G
19:09:41 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
19:10:53 [AaronSw]
G::By Walter Wick, the photographer of the [I Spy|http://www.scholastic.com/ispy/index.asp] series.
19:10:55 [chumpster]
commented item G
19:11:05 [Morbus]
hey AaronSw. how's life?
19:11:21 [AaronSw]
hey Morbus
19:11:24 [AaronSw]
i'm doing ok
19:11:39 [Morbus]
my lower back kills. slept on it wrong. horrific.
19:11:48 [AaronSw]
ouch
19:11:50 [Morbus]
will you be around tonight to read over my O'Reilly draft?
19:11:59 [Morbus]
deltab too, if possible.
19:12:13 [AaronSw]
yeah, i should be
19:12:21 [Morbus]
cool. thanks.
19:14:19 [GabeW]
what are you writing Morbus
19:14:21 [GabeW]
?
19:14:54 [Morbus]
an article for O'Reilly .net... apache / osx primer.
19:15:00 [GabeW]
oh kewl
19:15:21 [Morbus]
yah. i think so too :) ... they liked my evolt.org article, so offered me this one.
19:15:31 [GabeW]
right on
19:17:27 [GabeW]
I need to do some serious writing
19:18:10 [Morbus]
what are you into?
19:18:42 [AaronSw]
Ooh, you could get an oreilly.net email address
19:18:56 [Morbus]
morbus@oreilly.net <g>.. heh. cool :)
19:19:06 [AaronSw]
you could really confuse some people. Heh
19:26:56 [Morbus]
a lot of poeple liked that xml-rpc post.
19:27:16 [AaronSw]
that came out of left field
19:27:18 [Morbus]
my point? "We do all this shit for our peers, not for normal consumption."
19:27:38 [GabeW]
I'm in to beep for one thing
19:27:46 [Morbus]
huh?
19:27:51 [GabeW]
edd dumbill was going to write a beep article but never did
19:28:07 [GabeW]
beep - http://www.beepcore.org - rfc 3080/3081
19:30:40 [Morbus]
i'll take a look at this more in depth a bit later./
19:31:32 [GabeW]
* GabeW has ensnared another in the beep web
19:31:40 [Morbus]
heh.
19:31:53 [Morbus]
gabew, ever played with amphetadesk?
19:31:55 [GabeW]
clearly, more people need to write beep articles
19:31:59 [GabeW]
no
19:32:06 [Morbus]
http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/
19:32:18 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw learned about BXXP from the New York Times
19:32:33 [AaronSw]
I was like "XML Protocol" -- I need some of this.
19:32:47 [GabeW]
heh
19:33:03 [GabeW]
is this rss?
19:33:06 [GabeW]
(amphetadesk)
19:33:10 [Morbus]
or scriptingNews, yes.
19:33:34 [GabeW]
oh kewl - your own personal rss aggregator
19:33:56 [Morbus]
right. templates are customizable, its open source, binaried for win/mac, blah blah blah.
19:35:18 [GabeW]
now running on my mahine
19:35:30 [Morbus]
lemme know what you think.
19:35:40 [Morbus]
* Morbus has ensnared another into using AmphetaDesk
19:36:48 [GabeW]
where do channels come from?
19:36:55 [Morbus]
a goose.
19:37:06 [Morbus]
syndic8.com is your best bet right now.
19:37:11 [Morbus]
the included feed list is pretty outta date.
19:37:49 [GabeW]
A "channel" is just a RSS url?
19:39:39 [Morbus]
right.
19:40:09 [GabeW]
slick
19:43:54 [Morbus]
:)
19:44:01 [Morbus]
you like?
19:44:29 [GabeW]
yeah, I'd like a prettier view though
19:44:59 [Morbus]
change it yerself, bub ;)(
19:45:03 [Morbus]
see docs/skinning.htm
19:45:11 [Morbus]
or just start modifying the templates in templates/
19:45:17 [Morbus]
there's a commented set for you to learn from too.
19:45:30 [Morbus]
the current template is the one sitting in the root of templates/
19:45:35 [Morbus]
the others are just placeholders./
19:47:59 [GabeW]
ok, well, I'll get there
19:48:13 [GabeW]
how often are the rss feeds hit?
19:49:06 [Morbus]
right now, if you leave ampheta open, they're only hit once - upon startup.
19:49:34 [Morbus]
ignoring that, rss feeds are checked once an hour and only downloaded if teh date modified is diff, the file size is diff, or if neither can be determined.
19:50:13 [Morbus]
in the next version, they'll be a "check every X hours" option when ampheta is running.
19:50:16 [Morbus]
defaulting to 1.
19:50:53 [GabeW]
I'd like to be able to mark feeds "read" so they aren't shown every time I load the page
19:51:12 [Morbus]
that doesn't scale if you have 300 feeds.
19:51:15 [Morbus]
but, that's planned.
19:51:27 [GabeW]
well, I'm not sure this is useful with 300 feeds anyway ;-)
19:51:30 [Morbus]
they'll be a couple of different ways of saying "this is read".
19:51:40 [Morbus]
heh. i have a user who has 250+ feeds. wacko ;)
19:51:57 [GabeW]
I'd like to just to remove a feed and don't show it to me again until the feed has changed
19:52:16 [Morbus]
yup. that stuff wont happen until after 1.0. but its planned.
19:52:22 [GabeW]
kewl
19:52:31 [GabeW]
what is amphetadesk written in?
19:52:32 [Morbus]
the TODO on the CVS has the latest thoughts.
19:52:33 [AaronSw]
Woohoo, hard drive came
19:52:34 [Morbus]
perl.
19:52:37 [GabeW]
ooh
19:52:40 [Morbus]
Oooh?
19:52:46 [Morbus]
how big, AaronSw?
19:52:52 [AaronSw]
We'll see in a sec...
19:52:53 [GabeW]
* GabeW is a recovering perl hacker
19:52:58 [Morbus]
hehehe.
19:53:06 [Morbus]
i don't think i'll ever want to recover ;)
19:53:07 [GabeW]
* GabeW has seen the true light - python
19:53:12 [AaronSw]
I checked my UPS package tracker, and it said "Delivered" and I said "Delivered?!" so i went outside and it was there!
19:53:13 [Morbus]
bah! <g>
19:53:25 [GabeW]
actually, I've actuall gotten so annoyted with Python that I've been forcing myself to do things with shell scripts
19:53:26 [AaronSw]
python!
19:53:34 [GabeW]
sorry annoyted with perl
19:53:48 [AaronSw]
phew, thought you were a traitor there for a sec
19:53:51 [GabeW]
annoyed with *perl*
19:53:53 [GabeW]
*perl*
19:53:58 [Morbus]
when AaronSw can show me how to create a runtime'd app for win/mac that doesn't require python or other libs installed, i'll look into it.
19:54:08 [GabeW]
ah - this is compiled perl?
19:54:12 [Morbus]
speaking of which, did you get that tidbits email i sent you?
19:54:16 [AaronSw]
Morbus, that's already available
19:54:17 [Morbus]
yeah, its compiled for mac / win.
19:54:20 [AaronSw]
Morbus, yes, 2 times
19:54:29 [Morbus]
twice?
19:54:31 [Morbus]
i sent it once.
19:54:31 [AaronSw]
Morbus, download MacPython -- let's you compile for Mac
19:54:37 [AaronSw]
once from you, once from Adam ;)
19:54:41 [Morbus]
heheheeh.
19:55:00 [Morbus]
AaronSw, that compiles any external libs you use too?
19:55:05 [Morbus]
and is there a similar thingy for windows?
19:55:09 [AaronSw]
Yeah, think so
19:55:12 [AaronSw]
i know there's one for win
19:55:17 [Morbus]
what's the gui in python?
19:55:21 [Morbus]
native? or tk?
19:55:24 [Morbus]
or something else?
19:55:27 [GabeW]
yes
19:55:34 [Morbus]
yes to what.'
19:55:38 [GabeW]
there are a variety of gui toolkits -
19:55:43 [AaronSw]
wow, this HD is small
19:55:43 [GabeW]
wxpython looks nice
19:55:53 [AaronSw]
30GB
19:55:59 [AaronSw]
i mean small physically
19:56:01 [Morbus]
wxpython doesn't get bundled, last i knew, meaning you'd have to have a secondary install of wx to have it owkr.
19:56:07 [Morbus]
i'd rather have small hd's anyways
19:56:14 [GabeW]
uh, I'm pretty sure you could bundle it with a binary install
19:56:38 [GabeW]
http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html
19:56:44 [Morbus]
bundle the libs into the .exe, or bundle the archive into the distrbution?
19:56:49 [GabeW]
ah
19:56:52 [Morbus]
that'd make it, what, a 10 meg install? <g>
19:57:14 [AaronSw]
ok, bbl, time to install HD
19:57:23 [Morbus]
good luck
19:57:37 [AaronSw]
thanks
19:57:49 [GabeW]
there is python2c
19:58:14 [GabeW]
theres always jpython
19:58:17 [Morbus]
i guess one of my problems is dependcy on stuff i can't control.
19:58:56 [Morbus]
ampheta uses native perl libraries for win32. i could have used tk, but didn't.
19:58:57 [Morbus]
Morbus has left #swhack
20:00:35 [AaronSw]
Hmm, backing up is going to be a pain
20:00:48 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw waves a final goodbye
20:01:42 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
20:01:47 [Morbus]
bah. stupid buttons.
20:02:29 [GabeW]
anyway, need to do some real work - writing, no less
20:02:36 [Morbus]
heh. whatcha writing?
20:03:10 [GabeW]
writing a bunch of stuff for our client (i'm half a consulting company - http://www.wiredobjects.com)
20:03:12 [Morbus]
great. someone just spammed with my email address.
20:03:32 [AaronSw]
.google mick bass
20:03:33 [xena]
mick bass: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-dspace/2001May/0007.html
20:03:56 [AaronSw]
lol, Morbus Spam!
20:04:10 [Morbus]
its not so funny.
20:04:10 [Morbus]
:(
20:04:15 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Step right up, get your very own MORBUS SPAM!
20:04:17 [Morbus]
its not even a cool spam.
20:04:21 [AaronSw]
oh, that sucks
20:04:25 [AaronSw]
what is it?
20:04:28 [Morbus]
its a make money fast spam.
20:04:33 [Morbus]
from someone in an .it domain.
20:04:36 [AaronSw]
that's pretty cool
20:04:45 [AaronSw]
does it involve amphetadesk?
20:04:49 [Morbus]
why, pray tell, is that cool?
20:04:59 [Morbus]
[[[
20:04:59 [Morbus]
16 YR,OLD PULL,S IN $15,000 GRAND IN A MONTH!
20:04:59 [Morbus]
HOW ?
20:04:59 [Morbus]
IF YOU HAVE A PRODUCT, service or message you would like
20:04:59 [Morbus]
sent to the Internet MILLIONS, you have an INCREDIBLE
20:04:59 [Morbus]
option...DIRECT E-MAIL !
20:05:02 [Morbus]
]]]
20:05:07 [Morbus]
that's paragtaph 1.
20:05:08 [Morbus]
sigh.
20:05:08 [AaronSw]
I always wanted to make money fast... now you can show me the way!
20:05:17 [Morbus]
Received: from transmit ([64.1.78.23]) by domino.lainox.it (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) with SMTP id 41256B09.00600D14; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:29:09 +0100
20:05:17 [Morbus]
From: morbus@disobey.com
20:05:18 [Morbus]
To: davidman@hotmail.com
20:05:26 [AaronSw]
uncool would be something like, how to kill the president instantly.
20:05:34 [Morbus]
no, that would be qalright.
20:05:36 [AaronSw]
perhaps they just screwed up their from and to addresses?
20:05:45 [AaronSw]
why would that be alright?
20:05:54 [Morbus]
i doubt it. the only reason i know about it is because i'm getting a bunch of bounced yahoo email.
20:06:03 [Morbus]
if they proxied the from/to, i'd only get one copy.
20:06:03 [AaronSw]
ouch
20:06:41 [AaronSw]
Well, they'll probably email your ISP -- oh wait, you are your ISP :)
20:06:58 [Morbus]
hehehe :)
20:07:46 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
20:33:04 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
20:33:19 [Morbus]
how'd it go?
20:33:47 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw waves from Windows, bleech
20:33:49 [AaronSw]
not done yet
20:33:51 [AaronSw]
windows sucks
20:34:00 [Morbus]
ewwww.
20:34:06 [Morbus]
i'm on windows right now too.
20:34:14 [Morbus]
but its a dual boot with suse 7 so i have some redemption ;)
20:34:51 [AaronSw]
i'm backing up first, so that's going to take a long time...
20:35:17 [Morbus]
i need to get a new cdr. my 2x just aint cutting it anymore.
20:35:32 [Morbus]
picked it up for 500 back in the day when disks were 6 bucks a piece.
20:35:36 [AaronSw]
i use the easy way out: the network :)
20:35:56 [Morbus]
i don't have a network set up a home. i
20:37:13 [AaronSw]
hmm
20:40:57 [AaronSw]
how do people use this OS?
20:41:07 [Morbus]
perseverance.
20:41:14 [Morbus]
justification that's it microsoft.
20:41:19 [Morbus]
they know of no other.
20:41:41 [AaronSw]
heh
20:42:39 [AaronSw]
pretty sad
20:42:45 [Morbus]
mmhmm
20:57:26 [Morbus]
man, thats funny
20:57:54 [Morbus]
expedia.com has stopped giving us links to link to a map.
20:57:59 [Morbus]
but you can still url hack a new address in.
21:02:14 [AaronSw]
hmm
21:05:02 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.camworld.com/journal/2001/11/#16
21:05:09 [chumpster]
H: CamWorld: Archives: 2001: 11 from AaronSw
21:05:47 [AaronSw]
H:|Cam Blogs Some Stupid Stuff
21:05:48 [chumpster]
titled item H
21:07:31 [AaronSw]
H::Like this [stupid march on Washington|http://ballscasten.com/jokes/images/9_20/stupid.jpg].
21:07:32 [chumpster]
commented item H
21:07:52 [Morbus]
heh.
21:08:01 [Morbus]
one of my still working spyonit.com spies is a scraping of camworld.
21:08:11 [Morbus]
i'm surprised it still works. but i still receive valid scrapes through email ;)
21:09:03 [AaronSw]
wow
21:09:41 [Morbus]
yeah, about five regexps i think. the "extract lnks" ones are broken, but text dumping still works.
21:11:39 [Morbus]
http://www.spyonit.com/Add?_spyid=morbus_CamWorld.com&_name=CamWorld.com&_devStatus=true
21:11:59 [Morbus]
i was one of their little spy developers. got a free tshirt for helping out in the forums.
21:12:06 [Morbus]
still on good speaking terms with the tech guy over ther.
21:12:32 [Morbus]
ah. the memories.
21:12:42 [Morbus]
they got me started on xml.
21:12:54 [Morbus]
to create a spy, you made xml.
21:12:57 [Morbus]
sniff. sniff.
21:14:37 [AaronSw]
yeah, you told me about this before
21:14:55 [Morbus]
i'm like a grandpa. i never remember what ive told you.;
21:15:08 [AaronSw]
:)
21:15:20 [AaronSw]
at least my memory for stories is getting better.
21:15:28 [Morbus]
heh.
21:15:36 [Morbus]
"oh, morbus is going off on xml again!" <g>
21:15:39 [AaronSw]
when I was younger I used to forget them immediately, so my parents told me the same stories about people they knew again and again
21:17:55 [Morbus]
tell me a story, AaronSw
21:18:25 [AaronSw]
oh, i don't know any good stories
21:18:42 [Morbus]
oh. well. poo.
21:19:39 [AaronSw]
I can't really tell good stories well on IRC
21:19:53 [Morbus]
understandable
21:20:05 [Morbus]
i told a good one abotu cereal.
21:20:11 [Morbus]
i'll have to send you the chat transcript when i get home
21:21:34 [AaronSw]
heh
21:23:22 [AaronSw]
oh shoot, backup died with error "Not Enough Application Memory"
21:23:26 [AaronSw]
i hate mac os 9... grr
21:24:10 [AaronSw]
For some reason it thinks my hard drive takes up 267GB
21:24:28 [AaronSw]
265, sorry -- pretty incredible for a 10GB HD
21:29:53 [Morbus]
hehe... sounds time for disk first aid,
21:31:22 [Morbus]
i need a chiropractor.
21:33:41 [AaronSw]
ouch, that sounds like no fun
21:33:43 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
21:33:59 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
21:34:26 [Morbus]
no. my gf ust went to one.
21:34:28 [Morbus]
he cracked her all up. she ached for days, but it was "better"/.
21:34:52 [AaronSw]
heh
21:35:12 [AaronSw]
not my idea of a good time, but hey
21:35:28 [Morbus]
same here.
21:35:43 [Morbus]
i jusy hate spending money on stuff that doesn't entertain me ;)
21:35:56 [AaronSw]
heh
21:36:32 [Morbus]
heh: http://www.daypop.com/search?q=amphetadesk&t=a
21:36:44 [Morbus]
ERROR in GetPopRandomActiveAdvert!
21:37:02 [AaronSw]
heh
21:37:03 [AaronSw]
I love how Mozilla uses RDF for everything, we need to give them more points for that...
21:37:10 [AaronSw]
Mozilla++
21:40:18 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.xulplanet.com/tutorials/xultu/
21:40:21 [chumpster]
I: XUL Tutorial from AaronSw
21:42:00 [AaronSw]
I::Script it [with Python|http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/Komodo/PyXPCOM/].
21:42:01 [chumpster]
commented item I
21:42:16 [Morbus]
i've got a number of moz bookmarks if you want them
21:42:25 [AaronSw]
I::Lean how with [an article from Uche|http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/co-pyxp2.html]
21:42:26 [chumpster]
commented item I
21:42:29 [AaronSw]
Feel free to share them w/ the chump
21:43:13 [Morbus]
I::Or try a [WebTechniques Article|http://www.webtechniques.com/news/2000/07/powers/]
21:43:14 [chumpster]
commented item I
21:43:48 [Morbus]
I::Enhance your XUL with a [javascript library of common routines|http://jslib.mozdev.org/]
21:43:49 [chumpster]
commented item I
21:44:43 [Morbus]
I::Or heck, play around with sidebars with instructions from [Netscape|http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/browser/sidebar/]
21:44:44 [chumpster]
commented item I
21:45:27 [AaronSw]
tx for the links, btw
21:45:44 [Morbus]
And learn about [XPToolkit|http://www.mozilla.org/xpfe/].
21:45:48 [Morbus]
I::And learn about [XPToolkit|http://www.mozilla.org/xpfe/].
21:45:50 [chumpster]
commented item I
21:46:03 [Morbus]
No problem. I had one more about sidebars, but cant find the damn thing now. It had a downloadable dummy you could modify.
21:46:05 [Morbus]
Poo.
21:49:31 [Morbus]
ah well. can't find it.
21:52:06 [AaronSw]
oh well
21:57:59 [Morbus]
its prolly somewhere in my sent items box at home. i had sent it to some weblog.
22:02:51 [Morbus]
[[[
22:02:52 [Morbus]
Me: Yes, I'm looking for Microsoft Office for OS X.
22:02:52 [Morbus]
Him: You're looking for Microsoft Office and OS X? Those are two seperate products, sir.
22:02:52 [Morbus]
Me: May I speak to someone who isn't a moron?
22:02:54 [Morbus]
]]]
22:03:04 [Morbus]
from dansays.com
22:05:01 [AaronSw]
heh heh heh
22:05:04 [AaronSw]
lol
22:09:26 [Morbus]
its the suite thing.
22:09:37 [Morbus]
i heard it was just released.
22:09:46 [AaronSw]
what was?
22:09:50 [Morbus]
office x.
22:09:51 [AaronSw]
@ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001Nov/0067
22:09:53 [chumpster]
J: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2001Nov/0067 from AaronSw
22:10:04 [AaronSw]
Oh, GM was seeded a while back
22:10:21 [AaronSw]
folks had it at the P2PCon
22:10:30 [Morbus]
is ps 6.5 out yet? i know illustrator is out. i don't use it though
22:10:49 [AaronSw]
ps?
22:10:53 [Morbus]
photoshop
22:11:12 [Morbus]
http://216.73.30.100/todo/
22:11:13 [AaronSw]
J:|DAV: scheme not only a waste, but also invalid
22:11:14 [chumpster]
titled item J
22:11:27 [AaronSw]
i haven't seen ps anywhere
22:17:25 [AaronSw]
brb
22:17:45 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
22:23:18 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
22:32:53 [AaronSw]
Is it just me or does pyRads sound like a Python-based Rapid Advertisement Development System.
22:33:09 [Morbus]
dunno.
22:33:14 [Morbus]
could be Perl-based <g>
22:33:23 [Morbus]
goddamit.
22:33:31 [GabeW]
if it starts with py its python-centric. period. dammit!
22:33:34 [Morbus]
macosxhints.com takes forver to send your forgotten password along.
22:33:54 [Morbus]
unless the company's name is Pyra.
22:35:08 [Morbus]
http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0111/textcam/#
22:35:45 [AaronSw]
Geez, I can't believe it. After all this, the backup died again because of an invalid file name... now I have to go thru the scanning process afain
22:35:56 [AaronSw]
I hate how Snak's entry bar is broken on tabbed windows
22:36:12 [Morbus]
i hate how snak doesn't autolink urls.
22:36:29 [AaronSw]
why do you need that? Command-click
22:36:39 [Morbus]
didnt know you could.
22:37:01 [AaronSw]
Works For Me
22:37:08 [AaronSw]
Heh, the modernhumorist 404 is funny
22:37:28 [Morbus]
sheesh.
22:37:37 [Morbus]
45 minutes and still no osxhints.com password
22:37:50 [AaronSw]
maybe you forgot your email address too?
22:37:58 [Morbus]
no :)
22:37:59 [Morbus]
Morbus has left #swhack
22:40:02 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack
22:40:05 [Morbus]
grumble
22:40:12 [AaronSw]
heh
22:40:17 [AaronSw]
you're good at that
22:42:59 [Morbus]
its cos i'm at work. so when an IM comes up, i answer and alt-f4.
22:43:16 [Morbus]
and then i get confused with the irc and answer and alt-f4, closing the win, and blah blah blha.
22:43:28 [AaronSw]
riiight
22:43:48 [AaronSw]
I heard that Alt-F4 can get you superpowers if you hit it enough. ;-)
22:45:25 [Morbus]
hey, i'm reading everywhere that os v.x was released today
22:46:04 [AaronSw]
cool
22:46:46 [Morbus]
@ http://www.linuxjewelry.com/
22:46:53 [Morbus]
@:http://www.linuxjewelry.com/
22:46:53 [chumpster]
K: http://www.linuxjewelry.com/ from Morbus
22:47:02 [Morbus]
K::Oh... my... god.
22:47:03 [chumpster]
commented item K
22:47:04 [AaronSw]
it was the first
22:47:09 [Morbus]
huh?
22:47:19 [AaronSw]
syntax is @ http: not @:foo
22:47:35 [Morbus]
@ http://www.intellectbooks.com/iconic/iconic.htm
22:47:42 [chumpster]
L: http://www.intellectbooks.com/iconic/iconic.htm from Morbus
22:47:44 [AaronSw]
K is weird....
22:47:59 [Morbus]
L|Iconic Communication
22:48:06 [AaronSw]
it's L:|
22:48:09 [Morbus]
man, i suck.
22:48:17 [Morbus]
L:|Iconic Communication
22:48:18 [chumpster]
titled item L
22:48:20 [AaronSw]
K:|Linux Jewelry
22:48:21 [chumpster]
titled item K
22:49:01 [AaronSw]
@ http://linuxfund.org/
22:49:05 [chumpster]
M: Welcome to LinuxFund.org from AaronSw
22:49:18 [AaronSw]
M:|LinuxFund.org: We are the kind folks who fund open source
22:49:19 [chumpster]
titled item M
22:49:57 [AaronSw]
M::Wait a sec, they pay you to write open source code? Awesome!
22:49:58 [chumpster]
commented item M
22:50:31 [AaronSw]
M::Ooh, they even have a [credit card|http://www.linuxfund.org/creditcard] and you get a *free plush Penguin* for applying!
22:50:32 [chumpster]
commented item M
22:50:51 [Morbus]
OOOh.
22:50:55 [Morbus]
i want to get paid!
22:51:20 [AaronSw]
M::They decided to fund the [BitTorrent P2P Project|http://www.linuxfund.org/development/project/?id=89]
22:51:21 [chumpster]
commented item M
22:52:41 [AaronSw]
M::They also let you vote on which project gets the money.
22:52:44 [chumpster]
commented item M
22:53:55 [Morbus]
Morbus has left #swhack
22:54:40 [AaronSw]
M::The [Linux Public Broadcasting Network|http://www.linuxfund.org/development/project/?id=90] looks interesting: "The result of co-operative broadcasting allows all participants to get video and audio streamed over the Internet."
22:54:42 [chumpster]
commented item M
23:08:28 [AaronSw]
M::Go ahead and [Register|http://www.linuxfund.org/development/register/] to apply for a grant or vote.
23:08:30 [chumpster]
commented item M
23:15:01 [kenm]
kenm (~ken@kmacleod.static.iaxs.net) has joined #swhack
23:15:12 [AaronSw]
hi ken
23:15:16 [kenm]
hey
23:15:30 [GabeW]
hi kenm
23:15:37 [kenm]
whatsnooz?
23:15:50 [kenm]
hey Gabe, long time no chat! ;)
23:15:55 [GabeW]
yeah, long time
23:16:19 [GabeW]
what are you up to these days?
23:17:58 [kenm]
very little. trying to stay employed. just found out my current contract won't be able to extend into the new year :'(
23:18:10 [GabeW]
ooh yuch
23:18:28 [kenm]
not a good market, nor time of year, to go jobless
23:18:51 [GabeW]
yeah, tell me about it
23:19:09 [GabeW]
my consulting company got our gig extended until April, so we're breathing a sigh of relief (we are two people!)
23:19:48 [GabeW]
wow, I can't believe even *you* are having problems finding work, ken
23:21:13 [kenm]
not enough contacts is the problem. I'm very bad at networking IRL, and noone I network with online is within 500miles ;)
23:21:21 [GabeW]
where are you?
23:23:59 [kenm]
I'm in Minneapolis, now. just moved from Des Moines in May
23:24:23 [GabeW]
well, that's an improvement, job wise
23:24:42 [kenm]
so I know near-zero people in Mpls (tho I do have a few Perl contacts), but I didn't really know to many people in the job market in Des Moines either
23:24:50 [GabeW]
you should talk to your governor - he's always yacking about how minnesota has a high tech economy
23:25:08 [kenm]
s/has/had/ ;)
23:25:16 [GabeW]
there's still work in the bay area
23:25:24 [GabeW]
and its getting cheaper (though still very expensive) here
23:25:28 [AaronSw]
lots of p2p developers in MN
23:25:29 [kenm]
really? I had heard it's a mess out there
23:25:51 [GabeW]
well, I don't know - I've lived here almost all my life, so I don't have much of a frame of reference
23:26:01 [AaronSw]
I don't understand why they're all in Minnesota -- it's quite weird.
23:26:11 [GabeW]
nothing else to do?
23:26:16 [AaronSw]
Heh.
23:26:27 [kenm]
hehe. I need names, addresses, and URLs!
23:26:51 [AaronSw]
will IRC nicks work?
23:27:06 [AaronSw]
otoh, i don't think many of them have jobs either :/
23:27:13 [GabeW]
yeah, exactly
23:27:18 [AaronSw]
Look Francl just went to work for some company in Minnesota...
23:27:29 [kenm]
when I talk to them, I'll need to avoid chuckling about how I've been doing P2P since '86 or so ;)
23:27:32 [GabeW]
if you want p2pers, you should bop over to #infoanarchy
23:27:42 [kenm]
back then we called it "UUCP"
23:27:44 [AaronSw]
Justin Chapweske invented SwarmCast and was fired from OpenCola, he started his own co: Onion Networks.
23:27:49 [AaronSw]
lol @ UUCP
23:29:02 [AaronSw]
both hang out in #infoanarchy
23:38:40 [AaronSw]
Woohoo, looks like my backup is working this time...
23:41:16 [kenm]
that's always a good thing ;)
23:41:25 [kenm]
gotta run. ttyl
23:41:26 [kenm]
kenm has quit ("Leaving")
23:41:32 [rillian]
rillian (~giles@00-30-65-2e-ae-5f.bconnected.net) has joined #swhack