00:30:20 Also, 12-12:45 or so, all CST 00:52:03 [GlobalNotice] Hello, just a note that the glitches has been fixed and in the next 30 minutes we should be reconverting 01:30:54 sbp (sean@p01s08a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack 01:32:14 hey there sbp 01:33:16 Heh heh: 01:33:20 From #openprojects: 01:33:22 so are we switching or not? 01:33:22

minus 20 and holding. 01:33:22 Holding?! Count, damnit. 01:33:22 it was minus 30, 40 mins ago 01:33:24 -- 01:34:58 sbp has quit (Ping timeout for sbp[p01s08a06.client.global.net.uk]) 01:41:19 * AaronSw thinks of rDNS... 01:41:36 *** AaronSw (Hi@i.am.aaronsw.com) has joined the channel 01:41:48 *** AaronSw (aaronsw@microsoft.ocm) has joined the channel 01:42:50 *** AaronSw (hey@help.with.plexdev.com) has joined the channel 01:43:21 *** AaronSw (hello@i.am.aaronsw.com) has joined the channel 01:43:52 sbp (sean@AC93F03C.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 01:43:57 wb 01:44:24 ty 01:44:43 What do you think of: 01:44:43 *** AaronSw (hello@i.am.aaronsw.com) has joined the channel 01:44:54 heh, neat 01:46:20 You know, I planned a museum piece on Knowledge Representation once. 01:46:26 It actually fits the medium rather well. 01:46:29 a museum piece? 01:46:38 I was trying to do something in the style of Ray Eames' "Mathematica" 01:47:12 Yeah, you have museums in the UK, right? :) 01:47:32 er... I think so. Somewhere 01:48:52 Yeah, so I did a museum piece on it... it's quite fun, really. 01:49:01 pointer? 01:49:14 It's not exactly online. 01:49:21 then it doesn't exist 01:49:27 Heh. 01:49:31 :-) 01:49:43 The idea about musuems (IMO) is to do stufd that you can't really do over the current Internet. 01:49:51 I can give it a tag if you want. 01:49:55 GabeW has quit (Ping timeout for GabeW[c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com]) 01:50:01 please don't 01:50:04 A taguri 01:50:13 You could even pronounce it tah-goo-ree. 01:50:27 You could even pronounce it tah-GOO-ree. 01:50:43 TAHG-yur-ee 01:50:52 brb 01:51:05 * sbp wouldn't pronounce it that way, but it is the best 01:52:26 by what criteria? 01:52:51 GabeW (gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack 01:53:00 by SBP's take home cool pronunciation test 01:53:04 Ah. 01:53:08 So what is there to know about KR? 01:53:22 It falls into the "Neat idea, doesn't work yet." dept. 01:53:26 KR is piss easy. Ontologies, n-ary relationships, quantification 01:53:28 Like so many other things. 01:53:36 FOPL 01:53:36 that's about it 01:53:43 yeah 01:53:50 Really? Wow? You must come from another planet... 01:54:02 except the Semantic Web will make it work, right? You promised us! 01:54:14 No, no, no -- I made no KR promises. 01:54:17 "Really? Wow?" at what? 01:54:24 KR is piss easy. Ontologies, n-ary relationships, quantification 01:54:48 well, perhaps you should have done. Perhaps that's what the world is missing: a KR promise from Aaron 01:55:01 yeah, well that is pretty easy 01:55:02 Ah, perhaps so. 01:55:14 That'll represent data... maybe information. But knowledge? I doubt it. 01:55:16 the upper ends of FOPL get a bit weird... 01:55:25 data is knowledge 01:55:43 It is? 01:55:44 or vice versa. I forget which 01:55:56 But it's certainly not information. 01:56:10 what is information? 01:56:28 inform me with what you know. Impart your data 01:56:30 information is data presented in such a way that it informs. 01:56:52 queries and reports turn data into knowledge, which is pretty cool 01:56:56 so information sans presentation is just data? 01:57:10 yeah, pretty much 01:57:22 but you store that knowledge as data, right? So what's the difference? 01:57:33 If what you need to know is lying at the bottom ocean, it's not very informative. 01:57:52 Just because computers store everything as data doesn't mean the distinction is meaningless 01:58:09 it would be if you were at the bottom of the ocean 01:58:22 True. 01:59:02 English is full of near-synonyms that people like to inappropriately substitute for one another 01:59:09 Heh. 01:59:49 So do you see the difference? 02:00:01 And knowledge is one layer up, similarly, "Specific information about something." 02:00:23 So computers are great at storing data -- I mean, that's what they do. 02:00:23 So, what is truth? 02:00:49 truth is subjective 02:00:52 but they don't necessarily know it, I guess 02:01:04 says you! 02:01:11 And they can turn it into information -- they've recently gotten good at that. 02:01:30 But knowledge? To do that they'd have to tell you relevant information. And they don't do very well at that test. 02:02:02 people turn it into information. I don't know of any computers that have recently built and operate themselves 02:02:13 Yep. 02:02:27 yes, well KR is quite primitive 02:02:44 But once you show them how to, computers can turn data into information on command, like xena here does. 02:02:54 .flight AA 1667 today 02:02:57 Flight number: 1667 Departure Date: Nov 13, 2001 02:02:58 Airport: Dallas/Ft Worth, T (DFW) Time: Estimated Departure Time 2:25 pm Gate: B9 02:02:59 Airport: Denver, CO (DEN) Time: Estimated Arrival Time 3:29 pm Gate: C37 Baggage Claim: 3 02:03:31 .flight AA 587 today 02:03:34 Flight number: 587 Departure Date: Nov 13, 2001 02:03:35 Airport: New York, NY (JFK) Time: Estimated Departure Time 8:00 am Gate: Information Not Available 02:03:36 Airport: Santo Domingo (SDQ) Time: Estimated Arrival Time 12:48 pm Gate: A2 02:03:53 Now if it did that of its own accord -- that'd be knowledge! 02:03:57 "data is information used for reckoning" reckons my dictionary 02:04:34 AA587 is the one that crashed, BTW. 02:04:42 xena doesn't need to catch a plane, why whould she give you that information of her own accord? 02:05:03 Becuase she (speculatively) knows I'm interested in the news. 02:05:10 Right. 02:05:31 why would she care? 02:06:05 She'd be programmed to help people. 02:06:18 Maybe "own accord" is the wrong phrase -- w/o me asking specifically, is what I mean. 02:06:53 are you programmed to help people? 02:07:24 I sometimes feel that way. 02:07:29 I'm sure any computer that advanced would be interesting on more levels than just giving you some decent news 02:07:37 have you met my friend? 02:08:10 ircEliza (nobody@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 02:08:11 which one? 02:08:15 eliza 02:08:19 oh no... 02:08:22 ircEliza, Hello there. 02:08:22 AaronSw, Hello, how are you feeling today? 02:08:32 ircEliza, I'm feeling just great, how are you? 02:08:32 AaronSw, How does being feeling just great, how am you? make you feel? 02:08:46 :-) 02:09:12 ircEliza, if I told you to go fuck yourself, would you do it? 02:09:13 sbp, Perhaps the answer lies within yourself? 02:09:25 Heh. 02:09:48 good answer 02:10:03 ircEliza, does it or not? 02:10:03 sbp, Why don't you tell me? 02:10:20 ircEliza, how's your mother doing? 02:10:20 AaronSw, How do you feel about your mother? 02:10:39 ircEliza, goodbye now. 02:10:40 AaronSw, I see. And what does that tell you? 02:10:41 heh, heh 02:11:07 ircEliza, quit 02:11:08 AaronSw, Thank you, that will be $150. Have a good day! 02:11:18 We'll see about that! 02:11:21 ircEliza has quit (Read error to ircEliza[c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com]: EOF from client) 02:11:44 ircEliza, I don't know what it tells Aaron, but it tells me you're about to be terminated 02:11:59 Heh heh. 02:12:05 :-) 02:12:18 hey, I was right 02:13:04 Not yet up to the turning test. 02:13:28 turning? 02:13:33 err Turing 02:13:34 it can't drive 02:13:36 ;-) 02:13:39 Heh. 02:14:22 ircEliza, If you were half as smart as you think you are, then you'd be smart enough to know that you're not nearly as smart as even I think you are, and I don't think that you're even a thousandth of how smart you think you are 02:14:36 oh, she's gone... 02:14:37 i wonder if there is a test where you get two double blind test where sometimes it's a computer and a computer and sometimes it's a computer and a human 02:14:43 and you have to trick both the computer and the human 02:14:49 :-) 02:15:00 trick it how? 02:15:02 rather than just a human not noticing it's a computer 02:15:22 Oh, trick the computer into thinking you're a computer? 02:15:33 not really, no 02:15:50 Have you seen two natlang bots duel? Apparently they ended up shouting: "You're a bot!" at each other. 02:15:51 trick the computer into thinking the entity it is talking to is a human 02:16:04 I wonder if you could trick a computer into thiking it's a human? 02:16:09 heh 02:16:23 [of course you could] 02:16:35 you could so! 02:16:55 lol 02:17:47 Ok, watch the bots duke it out in #botshowdown 02:18:05 that sounds fun - I am off though 02:18:11 GabeW has quit (Ba-bye!) 02:19:11 heh:- 02:19:17 ircEliza2, Why don't you tell me the reason why do me think do you think do me say that very interesting..? 02:19:17 ircEliza, Do you really want me to tell you the reason why do you think do me think do you say that very interesting..? 02:19:26 Heh. 02:20:07 I need a better Eliza implementation. 02:20:20 The one in Emacs is pretty good it seems, it even has keywords for Richard Stallman and stuff. 02:20:49 yeah, they're on an infinite loop 02:21:13 lol! 02:21:17 ircEliza, Do you really want me to tell you the reason why do you say that perhaps eventually you will tell me the reason why do me think do you think do me think do you say that perhaps me can answer my own question..? 02:21:24 Heh heh heh. 02:29:56 ircEliza, Why do you ask that do me really think you don't tell me the reason why do me ask that do you really think me don't tell you the reason why do you ask that do me really think you don't tell me the reason why do me say that perhaps eventually me will tell you the reason why do you think do me think do you think do me say that perhaps eventually me will tell you the reason why do you think do me ask that why is oierw upset..? 02:30:25 sbp has quit (Ping timeout for sbp[AC93F03C.ipt.aol.com]) 02:49:53 Heh: http://leguin.org.uk/~ejb/opn.txt 03:25:05 tav has quit (Hakuna Matata) 03:26:15 tav (tav@host217-34-70-25.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 03:31:37 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. We're heading toward another cutover. You might want to check out New Code land on irc.openprojects.net:9000 to help us do a bit of preliminary testing, and check out http://openprojects.net/using_the_network.shtml for a reference sheet on channel and user modes for the new software. Thanks. 03:32:15 [GlobalNotice] We have not updated the services database in New Code land and won't do so, we'll just keep fixing things from there. Thanks. 03:36:11 [GlobalNotice] And in case nobody has told you lately, thanks for your patience. :) 03:47:46 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Dent informs me that, if you care to wander over to the test bed (just pick your normal server and use port 9000), it will become the production network rather seamlessly when it's time. So you may want to wander over sooner rather than later. ;) Thanks! 04:33:13 whoo! new hard drive has shipped 04:37:16 heh: *** lilo (lilo@staff.opn) has joined the channel 05:00:14 whee! conversion time 05:01:13 OK, the command is: /dircproxy jump irc.openprojects.net:6667 05:07:03 err /dircproxy jump irc.openprojects.net:9000 05:08:28 tav has quit (farmer.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net) 05:08:28 chumpster has quit (farmer.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net) 05:08:48 BenSw has quit (benford.openprojects.net farmer.openprojects.net) 05:08:48 AaronSw has quit (benford.openprojects.net farmer.openprojects.net) 05:08:57 hello bots 05:09:06 BenSw (yoda@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 05:09:47 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 05:12:34 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 05:12:41 logster (~swhack-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 05:12:41 Users on #swhack: logster chumpster 05:12:49 AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #swhack 05:13:07 oierw` (mathew@24.163.165.245) has joined #swhack 05:13:19 BenSw (~yoda@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 05:13:54 * AaronSw reconnects 05:21:15 tav (~tav@host217-34-70-25.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 05:22:56 Morbus (~Morbus@s123.terminal3.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 05:23:05 hi morbus 05:23:16 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Welcome to the other side. Keep your fingers crossed! 05:23:29 I guess you missed all the fun. 05:23:39 hey there. won't be here for long. 05:24:11 ? 05:24:20 we moved over to the new IRC server code 05:24:51 ah. um. what's that mean? 05:25:46 You know IRC? It's got servers? You know servers? They have code. 05:25:56 You know code? It's got bugs and new releases 05:26:02 We moved to a new set of code. 05:26:16 And the past 4 times we tried this it had bugs 05:26:27 ah 05:29:48 Hey Sean, the HumanML got mentioned in the latest JOHO. 05:30:02 see http://www.hyperorg.com/current/current.html 05:32:01 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 05:35:56 Did I mention I met the JOHO guy at P2PCon? :-) 05:41:11 US Military + Windows + P2P = http://home.earthlink.net/~wkearney99/images/p2p/IMG_0635.JPG 06:02:10 @ http://blogonblog.blogspot.com/ 06:02:13 A: blogonblog from AaronSw 06:02:28 A::I bet this would be really interesting if I could understand it. :-) 06:02:30 commented item A 06:18:45 [GlobalNotice] 06:19:09 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Just a reminder. If you have conversion problems, including channel access list problems, please stop by #conversion. Thanks. 08:19:03 tav has quit (benford.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:19:03 BenSw has quit (benford.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:19:03 chumpster has quit (benford.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:19:34 tav (~tav@host217-34-70-25.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:19:34 BenSw (~yoda@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 08:19:34 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 08:25:59 chumpster has quit (benford.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:25:59 BenSw has quit (benford.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:25:59 tav has quit (benford.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 08:28:16 tav (~tav@host217-34-70-25.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 08:28:16 BenSw (~yoda@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack 08:28:16 chumpster (~chumpster@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #swhack 14:25:47 Morbus (~Morbus@63.173.138.128) has joined #swhack 14:37:32 Morbus has quit ("http://www.disobey.com/") 15:31:34 sbp (~sean@pFCs12a07.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack 15:35:58 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds) 18:26:35 Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 18:26:45 GabeW (~gwachob@216.101.18.99) has joined #swhack 18:27:36 Morbus has left #swhack 20:07:33 AaronSw is now known as danbri-lap 20:09:56 danbri-lap is now known as AaronSw 20:12:56 sbp (~sean@p60s09a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack 20:13:51 * sbp has been learning "Peregrinations" 20:14:38 xena (killarny@209.164.24.133) has joined #swhack 20:15:27 Gotta run 20:15:31 so soon! 20:15:32 c'ya 20:17:24 sbp has quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds) 20:17:54 tav` (~tav@host217-34-70-25.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #swhack 20:24:49 @ http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/856 20:24:52 B: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/856 from AaronSw 20:25:33 B:|MS Hailstorm Guy Thanks Tim O'Reilly, Rael, Blanu, Cherub 20:25:34 titled item B 20:26:37 B::I can just imagine Brandon going to work for Microsoft... 20:26:38 commented item B 20:26:55 Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 20:31:47 Morbus has left #swhack 20:36:17 @ http://www.hypergene.net/ideas/amazon.html 20:36:34 C: http://www.hypergene.net/ideas/amazon.html from AaronSw 20:36:47 C:|Amazoning the News 20:36:48 titled item C 20:37:07 C::An oldie but a goodie. 20:37:08 commented item C 20:40:46 Morbus (~Morbus@morbus.totalnetnh.net) has joined #swhack 20:44:59 Morbus has left #swhack 20:51:01 elmaestro (inets@B5172.pppool.de) has joined #swhack 20:51:05 hi 21:28:00 elmaestro has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1") 21:55:33 * AaronSw disconnects 21:55:42 * AaronSw reconnects 22:18:57 B::[blanu responds|http://blanu.net/]: "This was about as effective as it would have been had I tried to convince him to switch to Emacs for all of this editting needs. However, it was a fun and amiable conversation. He seems like a really nice guy who is just deluded into thinking that Microsoft is really cool and good." 22:18:58 commented item B 22:52:29 GabeW has quit ("Ba-bye!") 23:00:25 @ http://www.irctoons.com/ 23:00:32 D: http://www.irctoons.com/ from AaronSw 23:00:43 D:|IRC Toons: Animated Chat in IRC 23:00:44 titled item D 23:07:48 Morbus (~Morbus@63.173.138.125) has joined #swhack 23:28:08 GabeW (~gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack 23:34:03 sbp (~sean@AC95133B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 23:34:18 hey sbp 23:34:36 * AaronSw downloads some cool sheetmusic from greenspun.com/8notes.com 23:35:03 new 10.1.1 upadte tonight, aaron. dling it now 23:35:03 sbp, here's a cool client for you: ftp://ftp.irctoons.com/irctoons.exe 23:35:05 Ooh! 23:35:55 Hmm, I don't see it -- I just have Airport Software 2.0 and "This update delivers improved support for installing software updates and is required for any future Mac OS X updates." 23:36:16 yeah, thats probably why 23:36:22 i grabbed my software update update a few days ago 23:41:00 Ooh! 23:41:08 Could you *be* anymore sarcastic? 23:41:18 What are you talking about? 23:43:21 Whay are *you* talking about? :-) 23:43:27 s/What/What/ 23:43:36 The new 10.1 update. 23:43:45 * AaronSw sets up new giant-sized monitor 23:43:49 oh. heh 23:44:04 Could you *be* any less sarcastic? :-) 23:44:20 sorry, I thought you were saying "ooh" about the ol' IRC client 23:44:27 its 14.4 megs 23:44:45 Heh, the IRC client is awesome! I mean, IRC kissing... 23:44:55 brb while i reclaim my "Two Monitors" title. 23:45:07 ooh, IRC kissing! Now I'm sold 23:45:15 Heh, Aaron "Two Monitors" Swartz 23:45:21 i got a desktop randomizer now. whoo. 23:45:29 Hmm, it seems to have deactivated my other monitor... 23:46:10 Aaron "One Good Monitor, One Bad Monitor" Swartz 23:46:19 what's up with that?! argh... 23:47:53 maybe it'll work after I reboot 23:50:54 hypomanic (khammn@44.west-allis-01rh16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack 23:51:01 hello all 23:51:06 hello Aaron 23:51:10 hi 23:51:19 Hi 23:51:25 Happy Birthday Aaron 23:51:31 Thanks. :) 23:51:36 hello sbp 23:51:38 Many thanks for your present and card. 23:51:39 sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!") 23:52:04 i am happy to be able to do it 23:52:24 sbp (~sean@AC95133B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack 23:52:51 i am setting up my RedHat linux box 23:53:01 can't get ppp to work yet 23:53:01 ah, bollocks 23:53:28 hypowhatever: you're a bit late for the birthday celebrations 23:53:46 sbp: you are right 23:53:50 hypoMANIC, sbp. 23:53:56 it means he uses drugs all the time 23:54:11 i logged on here Saturday and saw the happy birthday sign 23:54:17 sure am 23:54:26 i am diagnosed as schizo-affective disorder 23:54:40 Ah 23:54:53 that means depression, manic, delusions, hallucinatin 23:55:23 but i've weaned myself off meds for the past few weeks 23:55:30 can ya control it with medication? 23:55:43 ah, there's the answer 23:55:46 i don't even eat red meat now, too hyper for me 23:55:58 yes, weaning yourself off is a good idea... 23:56:08 sbp: yes, there are drugs which act as tranquilizers 23:56:27 guaranteed to keep me tranquil 23:56:30 the *azepam series is usual 23:56:34 Haldol is one 23:56:54 you are right, i think lorazepam is one 23:56:58 not heard of it. What type is it? 23:57:26 Haldol is a first prescription for a newly manic patient 23:57:41 guaranteed to calm the patient right down 23:57:59 wouldn't a hammer be cheaper? 23:58:01 side effect is my hand shakes uncontrollably 23:58:12 Morbus: hehe, good one 23:58:13 * sbp tries Google... but it's sooooo slow 23:58:26 Huh? 23:58:38 Google seems pretty fast to me. 23:59:20 oop. os 10.1.1 is gonna restart me soon, ithink. 23:59:22 bb soon 23:59:28 wow, Haldol is a seriously shitty drug 23:59:56 it does the job. but when i am on it, i just do whatever people tell me to do