IRC log of swhack on 2001-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:30:20 [AaronSw]
Also, 12-12:45 or so, all CST
00:52:03 [dent]
[GlobalNotice] Hello, just a note that the glitches has been fixed and in the next 30 minutes we should be reconverting
01:30:54 [sbp]
sbp (sean@p01s08a06.client.global.net.uk) has joined #swhack
01:32:14 [AaronSw]
hey there sbp
01:33:16 [AaronSw]
Heh heh:
01:33:20 [AaronSw]
From #openprojects:
01:33:22 [AaronSw]
<jmkg> so are we switching or not?
01:33:22 [AaronSw]
<Diablo-D3> minus 20 and holding.
01:33:22 [AaronSw]
<StevenK> Holding?! Count, damnit.
01:33:22 [AaronSw]
<jmkg> it was minus 30, 40 mins ago
01:33:24 [AaronSw]
--
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01:41:19 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw thinks of rDNS...
01:41:36 [AaronSw]
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01:43:57 [AaronSw]
wb
01:44:24 [sbp]
ty
01:44:43 [AaronSw]
What do you think of:
01:44:43 [AaronSw]
*** AaronSw (hello@i.am.aaronsw.com) has joined the channel
01:44:54 [sbp]
heh, neat
01:46:20 [AaronSw]
You know, I planned a museum piece on Knowledge Representation once.
01:46:26 [AaronSw]
It actually fits the medium rather well.
01:46:29 [sbp]
a museum piece?
01:46:38 [AaronSw]
I was trying to do something in the style of Ray Eames' "Mathematica"
01:47:12 [AaronSw]
Yeah, you have museums in the UK, right? :)
01:47:32 [sbp]
er... I think so. Somewhere
01:48:52 [AaronSw]
Yeah, so I did a museum piece on it... it's quite fun, really.
01:49:01 [sbp]
pointer?
01:49:14 [AaronSw]
It's not exactly online.
01:49:21 [sbp]
then it doesn't exist
01:49:27 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:49:31 [sbp]
:-)
01:49:43 [AaronSw]
The idea about musuems (IMO) is to do stufd that you can't really do over the current Internet.
01:49:51 [AaronSw]
I can give it a tag if you want.
01:49:55 [GabeW]
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01:50:01 [sbp]
please don't
01:50:04 [AaronSw]
A taguri
01:50:13 [AaronSw]
You could even pronounce it tah-goo-ree.
01:50:27 [AaronSw]
You could even pronounce it tah-GOO-ree.
01:50:43 [sbp]
TAHG-yur-ee
01:50:52 [AaronSw]
brb
01:51:05 [sbp]
* sbp wouldn't pronounce it that way, but it is the best
01:52:26 [AaronSw]
by what criteria?
01:52:51 [GabeW]
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01:53:00 [sbp]
by SBP's take home cool pronunciation test
01:53:04 [AaronSw]
Ah.
01:53:08 [AaronSw]
So what is there to know about KR?
01:53:22 [AaronSw]
It falls into the "Neat idea, doesn't work yet." dept.
01:53:26 [sbp]
KR is piss easy. Ontologies, n-ary relationships, quantification
01:53:28 [AaronSw]
Like so many other things.
01:53:36 [sbp]
FOPL
01:53:36 [sbp]
that's about it
01:53:43 [sbp]
yeah
01:53:50 [AaronSw]
Really? Wow? You must come from another planet...
01:54:02 [sbp]
except the Semantic Web will make it work, right? You promised us!
01:54:14 [AaronSw]
No, no, no -- I made no KR promises.
01:54:17 [sbp]
"Really? Wow?" at what?
01:54:24 [AaronSw]
<sbp> KR is piss easy. Ontologies, n-ary relationships, quantification
01:54:48 [sbp]
well, perhaps you should have done. Perhaps that's what the world is missing: a KR promise from Aaron
01:55:01 [sbp]
yeah, well that is pretty easy
01:55:02 [AaronSw]
Ah, perhaps so.
01:55:14 [AaronSw]
That'll represent data... maybe information. But knowledge? I doubt it.
01:55:16 [sbp]
the upper ends of FOPL get a bit weird...
01:55:25 [sbp]
data is knowledge
01:55:43 [AaronSw]
It is?
01:55:44 [sbp]
or vice versa. I forget which
01:55:56 [AaronSw]
But it's certainly not information.
01:56:10 [sbp]
what is information?
01:56:28 [sbp]
inform me with what you know. Impart your data
01:56:30 [AaronSw]
information is data presented in such a way that it informs.
01:56:52 [AaronSw]
queries and reports turn data into knowledge, which is pretty cool
01:56:56 [sbp]
so information sans presentation is just data?
01:57:10 [AaronSw]
yeah, pretty much
01:57:22 [sbp]
but you store that knowledge as data, right? So what's the difference?
01:57:33 [AaronSw]
If what you need to know is lying at the bottom ocean, it's not very informative.
01:57:52 [AaronSw]
Just because computers store everything as data doesn't mean the distinction is meaningless
01:58:09 [sbp]
it would be if you were at the bottom of the ocean
01:58:22 [AaronSw]
True.
01:59:02 [sbp]
English is full of near-synonyms that people like to inappropriately substitute for one another
01:59:09 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:59:49 [AaronSw]
So do you see the difference?
02:00:01 [AaronSw]
And knowledge is one layer up, similarly, "Specific information about something."
02:00:23 [AaronSw]
So computers are great at storing data -- I mean, that's what they do.
02:00:23 [sbp]
So, what is truth?
02:00:49 [AaronSw]
truth is subjective
02:00:52 [sbp]
but they don't necessarily know it, I guess
02:01:04 [sbp]
says you!
02:01:11 [AaronSw]
And they can turn it into information -- they've recently gotten good at that.
02:01:30 [AaronSw]
But knowledge? To do that they'd have to tell you relevant information. And they don't do very well at that test.
02:02:02 [sbp]
people turn it into information. I don't know of any computers that have recently built and operate themselves
02:02:13 [AaronSw]
Yep.
02:02:27 [sbp]
yes, well KR is quite primitive
02:02:44 [AaronSw]
But once you show them how to, computers can turn data into information on command, like xena here does.
02:02:54 [AaronSw]
.flight AA 1667 today
02:02:57 [xena]
Flight number: 1667 Departure Date: Nov 13, 2001
02:02:58 [xena]
Airport: Dallas/Ft Worth, T (DFW) Time: Estimated Departure Time 2:25 pm Gate: B9
02:02:59 [xena]
Airport: Denver, CO (DEN) Time: Estimated Arrival Time 3:29 pm Gate: C37 Baggage Claim: 3
02:03:31 [AaronSw]
.flight AA 587 today
02:03:34 [xena]
Flight number: 587 Departure Date: Nov 13, 2001
02:03:35 [xena]
Airport: New York, NY (JFK) Time: Estimated Departure Time 8:00 am Gate: Information Not Available
02:03:36 [xena]
Airport: Santo Domingo (SDQ) Time: Estimated Arrival Time 12:48 pm Gate: A2
02:03:53 [AaronSw]
Now if it did that of its own accord -- that'd be knowledge!
02:03:57 [sbp]
"data is information used for reckoning" reckons my dictionary
02:04:34 [xena]
AA587 is the one that crashed, BTW.
02:04:42 [sbp]
xena doesn't need to catch a plane, why whould she give you that information of her own accord?
02:05:03 [AaronSw]
Becuase she (speculatively) knows I'm interested in the news.
02:05:10 [xena]
Right.
02:05:31 [sbp]
why would she care?
02:06:05 [AaronSw]
She'd be programmed to help people.
02:06:18 [AaronSw]
Maybe "own accord" is the wrong phrase -- w/o me asking specifically, is what I mean.
02:06:53 [sbp]
are you programmed to help people?
02:07:24 [AaronSw]
I sometimes feel that way.
02:07:29 [sbp]
I'm sure any computer that advanced would be interesting on more levels than just giving you some decent news
02:07:37 [AaronSw]
have you met my friend?
02:08:10 [ircEliza]
ircEliza (nobody@c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com) has joined #swhack
02:08:11 [sbp]
which one?
02:08:15 [AaronSw]
eliza
02:08:19 [sbp]
oh no...
02:08:22 [AaronSw]
ircEliza, Hello there.
02:08:22 [ircEliza]
AaronSw, Hello, how are you feeling today?
02:08:32 [AaronSw]
ircEliza, I'm feeling just great, how are you?
02:08:32 [ircEliza]
AaronSw, How does being feeling just great, how am you? make you feel?
02:08:46 [AaronSw]
:-)
02:09:12 [sbp]
ircEliza, if I told you to go fuck yourself, would you do it?
02:09:13 [ircEliza]
sbp, Perhaps the answer lies within yourself?
02:09:25 [AaronSw]
Heh.
02:09:48 [sbp]
good answer
02:10:03 [sbp]
ircEliza, does it or not?
02:10:03 [ircEliza]
sbp, Why don't you tell me?
02:10:20 [AaronSw]
ircEliza, how's your mother doing?
02:10:20 [ircEliza]
AaronSw, How do you feel about your mother?
02:10:39 [AaronSw]
ircEliza, goodbye now.
02:10:40 [ircEliza]
AaronSw, I see. And what does that tell you?
02:10:41 [sbp]
heh, heh
02:11:07 [AaronSw]
ircEliza, quit
02:11:08 [ircEliza]
AaronSw, Thank you, that will be $150. Have a good day!
02:11:18 [AaronSw]
We'll see about that!
02:11:21 [ircEliza]
ircEliza has quit (Read error to ircEliza[c930384-a.hlndpk1.il.home.com]: EOF from client)
02:11:44 [sbp]
ircEliza, I don't know what it tells Aaron, but it tells me you're about to be terminated
02:11:59 [AaronSw]
Heh heh.
02:12:05 [sbp]
:-)
02:12:18 [sbp]
hey, I was right
02:13:04 [AaronSw]
Not yet up to the turning test.
02:13:28 [sbp]
turning?
02:13:33 [AaronSw]
err Turing
02:13:34 [GabeW]
it can't drive
02:13:36 [GabeW]
;-)
02:13:39 [AaronSw]
Heh.
02:14:22 [sbp]
ircEliza, If you were half as smart as you think you are, then you'd be smart enough to know that you're not nearly as smart as even I think you are, and I don't think that you're even a thousandth of how smart you think you are
02:14:36 [sbp]
oh, she's gone...
02:14:37 [oierw`]
i wonder if there is a test where you get two double blind test where sometimes it's a computer and a computer and sometimes it's a computer and a human
02:14:43 [oierw`]
and you have to trick both the computer and the human
02:14:49 [sbp]
:-)
02:15:00 [AaronSw]
trick it how?
02:15:02 [oierw`]
rather than just a human not noticing it's a computer
02:15:22 [AaronSw]
Oh, trick the computer into thinking you're a computer?
02:15:33 [oierw`]
not really, no
02:15:50 [AaronSw]
Have you seen two natlang bots duel? Apparently they ended up shouting: "You're a bot!" at each other.
02:15:51 [oierw`]
trick the computer into thinking the entity it is talking to is a human
02:16:04 [sbp]
I wonder if you could trick a computer into thiking it's a human?
02:16:09 [oierw`]
heh
02:16:23 [sbp]
[of course you could]
02:16:35 [sbp]
you could so!
02:16:55 [sbp]
lol
02:17:47 [AaronSw]
Ok, watch the bots duke it out in #botshowdown
02:18:05 [GabeW]
that sounds fun - I am off though
02:18:11 [GabeW]
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02:19:11 [sbp]
heh:-
02:19:17 [sbp]
<ircEliza> ircEliza2, Why don't you tell me the reason why do me think do you think do me say that very interesting..?
02:19:17 [sbp]
<ircEliza2> ircEliza, Do you really want me to tell you the reason why do you think do me think do you say that very interesting..?
02:19:26 [AaronSw]
Heh.
02:20:07 [AaronSw]
I need a better Eliza implementation.
02:20:20 [AaronSw]
The one in Emacs is pretty good it seems, it even has keywords for Richard Stallman and stuff.
02:20:49 [sbp]
yeah, they're on an infinite loop
02:21:13 [sbp]
lol!
02:21:17 [sbp]
<ircEliza2> ircEliza, Do you really want me to tell you the reason why do you say that perhaps eventually you will tell me the reason why do me think do you think do me think do you say that perhaps me can answer my own question..?
02:21:24 [AaronSw]
Heh heh heh.
02:29:56 [AaronSw]
<ircEliza2> ircEliza, Why do you ask that do me really think you don't tell me the reason why do me ask that do you really think me don't tell you the reason why do you ask that do me really think you don't tell me the reason why do me say that perhaps eventually me will tell you the reason why do you think do me think do you think do me say that perhaps eventually me will tell you the reason why do you think do me ask that why is oierw upset..?
02:30:25 [sbp]
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02:49:53 [AaronSw]
Heh: http://leguin.org.uk/~ejb/opn.txt
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03:31:37 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. We're heading toward another cutover. You might want to check out New Code land on irc.openprojects.net:9000 to help us do a bit of preliminary testing, and check out http://openprojects.net/using_the_network.shtml for a reference sheet on channel and user modes for the new software. Thanks.
03:32:15 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] We have not updated the services database in New Code land and won't do so, we'll just keep fixing things from there. Thanks.
03:36:11 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] And in case nobody has told you lately, thanks for your patience. :)
03:47:46 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Dent informs me that, if you care to wander over to the test bed (just pick your normal server and use port 9000), it will become the production network rather seamlessly when it's time. So you may want to wander over sooner rather than later. ;) Thanks!
04:33:13 [AaronSw]
whoo! new hard drive has shipped
04:37:16 [AaronSw]
heh: *** lilo (lilo@staff.opn) has joined the channel
05:00:14 [AaronSw]
whee! conversion time
05:01:13 [AaronSw]
OK, the command is: /dircproxy jump irc.openprojects.net:6667
05:07:03 [AaronSw]
err /dircproxy jump irc.openprojects.net:9000
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05:08:57 [oierw`]
hello bots
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Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)
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05:12:41 [benford.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster chumpster
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* AaronSw reconnects
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05:23:05 [AaronSw]
hi morbus
05:23:16 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Welcome to the other side. Keep your fingers crossed!
05:23:29 [AaronSw]
I guess you missed all the fun.
05:23:39 [Morbus]
hey there. won't be here for long.
05:24:11 [Morbus]
?
05:24:20 [AaronSw]
we moved over to the new IRC server code
05:24:51 [Morbus]
ah. um. what's that mean?
05:25:46 [AaronSw]
You know IRC? It's got servers? You know servers? They have code.
05:25:56 [AaronSw]
You know code? It's got bugs and new releases
05:26:02 [AaronSw]
We moved to a new set of code.
05:26:16 [AaronSw]
And the past 4 times we tried this it had bugs
05:26:27 [Morbus]
ah
05:29:48 [Morbus]
Hey Sean, the HumanML got mentioned in the latest JOHO.
05:30:02 [Morbus]
see http://www.hyperorg.com/current/current.html
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05:35:56 [AaronSw]
Did I mention I met the JOHO guy at P2PCon? :-)
05:41:11 [AaronSw]
US Military + Windows + P2P = http://home.earthlink.net/~wkearney99/images/p2p/IMG_0635.JPG
06:02:10 [AaronSw]
@ http://blogonblog.blogspot.com/
06:02:13 [chumpster]
A: blogonblog from AaronSw
06:02:28 [AaronSw]
A::I bet this would be really interesting if I could understand it. :-)
06:02:30 [chumpster]
commented item A
06:18:45 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice]
06:19:09 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Just a reminder. If you have conversion problems, including channel access list problems, please stop by #conversion. Thanks.
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20:07:33 [AaronSw]
AaronSw is now known as danbri-lap
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danbri-lap is now known as AaronSw
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* sbp has been learning "Peregrinations"
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20:15:27 [sbp]
Gotta run
20:15:31 [AaronSw]
so soon!
20:15:32 [AaronSw]
c'ya
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20:24:49 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/856
20:24:52 [chumpster]
B: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/856 from AaronSw
20:25:33 [AaronSw]
B:|MS Hailstorm Guy Thanks Tim O'Reilly, Rael, Blanu, Cherub
20:25:34 [chumpster]
titled item B
20:26:37 [AaronSw]
B::I can just imagine Brandon going to work for Microsoft...
20:26:38 [chumpster]
commented item B
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20:36:17 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.hypergene.net/ideas/amazon.html
20:36:34 [chumpster]
C: http://www.hypergene.net/ideas/amazon.html from AaronSw
20:36:47 [AaronSw]
C:|Amazoning the News
20:36:48 [chumpster]
titled item C
20:37:07 [AaronSw]
C::An oldie but a goodie.
20:37:08 [chumpster]
commented item C
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20:51:01 [elmaestro]
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20:51:05 [elmaestro]
hi
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21:55:33 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
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* AaronSw reconnects
22:18:57 [AaronSw]
B::[blanu responds|http://blanu.net/]: "This was about as effective as it would have been had I tried to convince him to switch to Emacs for all of this editting needs. However, it was a fun and amiable conversation. He seems like a really nice guy who is just deluded into thinking that Microsoft is really cool and good."
22:18:58 [chumpster]
commented item B
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23:00:25 [AaronSw]
@ http://www.irctoons.com/
23:00:32 [chumpster]
D: http://www.irctoons.com/ from AaronSw
23:00:43 [AaronSw]
D:|IRC Toons: Animated Chat in IRC
23:00:44 [chumpster]
titled item D
23:07:48 [Morbus]
Morbus (~Morbus@63.173.138.125) has joined #swhack
23:28:08 [GabeW]
GabeW (~gwachob@c1886218-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com) has joined #swhack
23:34:03 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@AC95133B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
23:34:18 [AaronSw]
hey sbp
23:34:36 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw downloads some cool sheetmusic from greenspun.com/8notes.com
23:35:03 [Morbus]
new 10.1.1 upadte tonight, aaron. dling it now
23:35:03 [AaronSw]
sbp, here's a cool client for you: ftp://ftp.irctoons.com/irctoons.exe
23:35:05 [AaronSw]
Ooh!
23:35:55 [AaronSw]
Hmm, I don't see it -- I just have Airport Software 2.0 and "This update delivers improved support for installing software updates and is required for any future Mac OS X updates."
23:36:16 [Morbus]
yeah, thats probably why
23:36:22 [Morbus]
i grabbed my software update update a few days ago
23:41:00 [sbp]
<AaronSw> Ooh!
23:41:08 [sbp]
Could you *be* anymore sarcastic?
23:41:18 [AaronSw]
What are you talking about?
23:43:21 [sbp]
Whay are *you* talking about? :-)
23:43:27 [sbp]
s/What/What/
23:43:36 [AaronSw]
The new 10.1 update.
23:43:45 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw sets up new giant-sized monitor
23:43:49 [sbp]
oh. heh
23:44:04 [sbp]
Could you *be* any less sarcastic? :-)
23:44:20 [sbp]
sorry, I thought you were saying "ooh" about the ol' IRC client
23:44:27 [Morbus]
its 14.4 megs
23:44:45 [AaronSw]
Heh, the IRC client is awesome! I mean, IRC kissing...
23:44:55 [AaronSw]
brb while i reclaim my "Two Monitors" title.
23:45:07 [sbp]
ooh, IRC kissing! Now I'm sold
23:45:15 [sbp]
Heh, Aaron "Two Monitors" Swartz
23:45:21 [Morbus]
i got a desktop randomizer now. whoo.
23:45:29 [AaronSw]
Hmm, it seems to have deactivated my other monitor...
23:46:10 [sbp]
Aaron "One Good Monitor, One Bad Monitor" Swartz
23:46:19 [AaronSw]
what's up with that?! argh...
23:47:53 [AaronSw]
maybe it'll work after I reboot
23:50:54 [hypomanic]
hypomanic (khammn@44.west-allis-01rh16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) has joined #swhack
23:51:01 [hypomanic]
hello all
23:51:06 [hypomanic]
hello Aaron
23:51:10 [AaronSw]
hi
23:51:19 [sbp]
Hi
23:51:25 [hypomanic]
Happy Birthday Aaron
23:51:31 [AaronSw]
Thanks. :)
23:51:36 [hypomanic]
hello sbp
23:51:38 [AaronSw]
Many thanks for your present and card.
23:51:39 [sbp]
sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")
23:52:04 [hypomanic]
i am happy to be able to do it
23:52:24 [sbp]
sbp (~sean@AC95133B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #swhack
23:52:51 [hypomanic]
i am setting up my RedHat linux box
23:53:01 [hypomanic]
can't get ppp to work yet
23:53:01 [sbp]
ah, bollocks
23:53:28 [sbp]
hypowhatever: you're a bit late for the birthday celebrations
23:53:46 [hypomanic]
sbp: you are right
23:53:50 [Morbus]
hypoMANIC, sbp.
23:53:56 [Morbus]
it means he uses drugs all the time <g>
23:54:11 [hypomanic]
i logged on here Saturday and saw the happy birthday sign
23:54:17 [sbp]
sure am
23:54:26 [hypomanic]
i am diagnosed as schizo-affective disorder
23:54:40 [sbp]
Ah
23:54:53 [hypomanic]
that means depression, manic, delusions, hallucinatin
23:55:23 [hypomanic]
but i've weaned myself off meds for the past few weeks
23:55:30 [sbp]
can ya control it with medication?
23:55:43 [sbp]
ah, there's the answer
23:55:46 [hypomanic]
i don't even eat red meat now, too hyper for me
23:55:58 [sbp]
yes, weaning yourself off is a good idea...
23:56:08 [hypomanic]
sbp: yes, there are drugs which act as tranquilizers
23:56:27 [hypomanic]
guaranteed to keep me tranquil
23:56:30 [sbp]
the *azepam series is usual
23:56:34 [hypomanic]
Haldol is one
23:56:54 [hypomanic]
you are right, i think lorazepam is one
23:56:58 [sbp]
not heard of it. What type is it?
23:57:26 [hypomanic]
Haldol is a first prescription for a newly manic patient
23:57:41 [hypomanic]
guaranteed to calm the patient right down
23:57:59 [Morbus]
wouldn't a hammer be cheaper?
23:58:01 [hypomanic]
side effect is my hand shakes uncontrollably
23:58:12 [hypomanic]
Morbus: hehe, good one
23:58:13 [sbp]
* sbp tries Google... but it's sooooo slow
23:58:26 [AaronSw]
Huh?
23:58:38 [AaronSw]
Google seems pretty fast to me.
23:59:20 [Morbus]
oop. os 10.1.1 is gonna restart me soon, ithink.
23:59:22 [Morbus]
bb soon
23:59:28 [sbp]
wow, Haldol is a seriously shitty drug
23:59:56 [hypomanic]
it does the job. but when i am on it, i just do whatever people tell me to do