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00:43:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns
02:37:51 <AaronSw> Aww, I missed Powers of 10 day. http://www.powersof10.com/p10_day/p102001.html
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03:15:47 <sbp> Good idea, Aaron
03:16:00 <AaronSw> Ah, re the www-archive?
03:16:06 <sbp> yep :-)
03:16:20 <AaronSw> I talked to my contact at Google, but she said she was too lazy to deal with it today, and the only thing she could suggest was to get more links to it.
03:16:26 <AaronSw> Why don't you put a link on your homepage?
03:16:41 <sbp> ah, now you come to mention that :-)
03:16:48 <sbp> I don't think Google
03:17:01 <sbp> Google's updated my homepage for a while either, has it?
03:17:42 <AaronSw> Well, quick then you'll be able to get it into the next update.
03:17:47 <sbp> Hmm... it's on v 1.16, I'm on 1.17
03:18:02 <sbp> yeah, I'm just writing out the new homepage now!
03:18:08 <sbp> I'll give you a sneak preview...
03:19:06 <AaronSw> Ooh.
03:19:26 <AaronSw> what's with the blue sidebar?
03:19:45 <sbp> they're there to denote sections
03:19:51 <AaronSw> And I'm disorieted without a big H1 at the top
03:19:56 <sbp> woo!
03:20:04 <sbp> me too
03:20:19 <AaronSw> And the "* ..." stuff seems like such an abuse of markup.
03:20:51 <sbp> not sure. I tried it with CSS, but then became aware that it didn't gracefully transform
03:21:21 <sbp> OTOH, I've been saying that the "graceful transformation" test is an anachronism lately
03:21:43 <AaronSw> No music stuff?
03:21:43 <sbp> I just like the asterisk better than the blob
03:22:00 <sbp> there is music stuff!
03:22:11 <AaronSw> Ahh, there it is
03:22:16 <sbp> :-)
03:23:03 <AaronSw> No phenomics.
03:23:15 <sbp> not *yet*
03:23:33 <sbp> I may put it next to colloquial
03:24:08 <sbp> there are some good little jokes developing in there
03:24:13 <AaronSw> Yes, that'd be a good place for it.
03:24:24 <sbp> like: Am I the only person in the world to whom "asinus asinum fricat" sounds like some bizarre kind of foreplay?
03:24:49 <AaronSw> Yeah, that got me googling.
03:25:35 <sbp> Semper ubi sub ubi
03:26:25 <sbp> ah, should that be "who" or "whom"?
03:28:20 <AaronSw> whom, I think
03:28:52 <sbp> er... am I the object of "sounds"?
03:30:01 <sbp> that very question is flawed
03:30:12 <sbp> whom will do
03:30:45 <AaronSw> In modern english who is always appropriate. ;)
03:31:16 <sbp> really?
03:32:10 <AaronSw> Yeah, whom is dead.
03:32:29 <AaronSw> [[[
03:32:30 <AaronSw> "Whom" has been dying an agonizing death for decades--you'll notice there are no Whoms in Dr. Seuss's Whoville. Many people never use the word in speech at all. 
03:32:31 <AaronSw> ]]]
03:32:34 <AaronSw>  - http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/who.html
03:33:30 <AaronSw> [[[
03:33:31 <AaronSw> Ending a sentence with a preposition
03:33:31 <AaronSw>  A fine example of an artificial "rule" which ignores standard usage. As Winston Churchill said, "This is the sort of English up with which I cannot put."
03:33:34 <AaronSw> ]]]
03:33:37 <AaronSw>  - http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/nonerrors.html
03:35:31 <sbp> I usually read "who" objectively, so I cannot be sure
03:36:27 <sbp> Confused is the person upon whom this afflication beplagues
03:36:33 <sbp> er... afflication
03:36:40 <sbp> Confused is the person upon who this affliction beplagues
03:37:12 <AaronSw> Ah, here is the xena code: http://cvs.espra.net/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/creature/
03:37:30 <sbp> the latter reads: the person who is beplagued by this afflication is confused
03:38:05 <sbp> the former reads: the person who beplagued this afflication is confused
03:38:10 <sbp> heh, that's not right
03:39:04 <sbp> well, smeg that
03:39:10 <sbp> Gotta run
03:39:25 <AaronSw>  c'ya
03:39:32 <AaronSw> Do you have a special key sequence for that?
03:39:37 <AaronSw> You always write it the same way,
03:39:48 <AaronSw> never all lower case, or capitalizing the R or ending with a period
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03:42:26 <AaronSw> Solutions don't need to make sense, they just need to work.
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03:50:40 <sbp> <sbp> ah, should that be "who" or "whom"?
03:50:42 <sbp> <AaronSw> whom, I think
03:50:44 <sbp> nope, it's "who"!
03:50:51 <sbp> I just mastered the art of reading "whom" objectively
03:50:54 <AaronSw> says whom?
03:51:03 <AaronSw> ;)
03:52:10 <sbp> I kept reading "the person whom x y" as "the person *whom* *x* *y*" rather than "*the* *person* whom x y"
03:52:12 <sbp> :-)
03:52:42 <AaronSw> That makes no sense to me whatsoever, but good for you. :-)
03:53:16 <AaronSw> Ooh, Zope has a featured article: Using Zope with Amaya, etc.:
03:53:16 <AaronSw> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZPT3
03:54:27 <sbp> actually, I think I screwed that up
03:54:36 <sbp> * sbp goes back to the drawing board
03:54:40 <sbp> c'ya
03:55:14 <AaronSw> But wait, I have a Pre-Approval for $5,000 in Gold Credit!
03:55:17 <AaronSw> :-)
03:57:41 <sbp> sbp has quit
04:00:06 <AaronSw> Maybe if we all ask very nicely... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndic8/message/256
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04:02:59 <sbp> It turns out that "whom" is indeed correct, and that if I used "who", it would 
04:03:01 <sbp> mean that I sound like some bizarre kind of foreplay to a latin phrase.
04:03:07 <sbp> which might actually be funnier, but still
04:03:18 <sbp> whom am I kidding, eh?
04:03:20 <AaronSw> Heheh.
04:03:32 <AaronSw> What'd I tell you.
04:04:03 <sbp> you told me that "whom" is probably correct, but to use "who" anyway. You were exactly right, but for the wrong reason
04:04:21 <AaronSw> How do you know?
04:04:34 <sbp> well, actually, it was the right reason, but not from my point of view, which is to make the thing funny
04:05:08 <AaronSw> You've spent way too long on this and you know, nobody will notice. ;-)
04:05:25 <sbp> yeah... oh well
04:05:50 <AaronSw> Hehe, that makes it funnier.
04:05:57 <sbp> :-)
04:06:23 <sbp> so, am I going to use "who" or "whom"... Hmm... dunno. Perhaps I could do a random choice thing with ASP?
04:06:41 <AaronSw> Heheh.
04:06:42 <sbp> that'd be really confusing
04:07:19 <sbp> anyway, I should go to bed before the Sun does its traditional risy thing
04:07:57 <sbp> c'ya
04:08:04 <AaronSw> Ah, ok.
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13:39:16 <AaronSw> Unofficial Unsupported Ximian ISOs: http://uuxii.cofradia.org/
13:39:21 <AaronSw> This is what I need for Sean.
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17:39:33 <wendy> hey there, i was looking for sbp.  seems he's not here. c'est la vie.
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18:24:39 <AaronSw> 'lo
18:24:47 <AaronSw> Howdy Morbus
18:38:51 <Morbus> hey
18:42:19 <AaronSw> Know of any good backup programs for OS X.
18:42:41 <Morbus> nope. there's a disccusion on osx@perl.org concerning a perl backup program. but i don't backup. i cd-r every month. shrugs.
18:52:12 <Morbus> ooh, the new tabbed iface in mozilla is nice.
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19:47:56 <AaronSw> hi sbp
19:48:38 <sbp> hi there
19:50:02 <Morbus> my spam filters are doing good.
19:50:15 <Morbus> 1277 blocked this weekend, only 5 fositives.
19:50:28 <Morbus> i think i've made up a word: fositives. i've never heard that before.
19:51:09 <sbp> hey, that's cool!
19:51:10 <AaronSw> Hehe, I was just about to say that.
19:51:12 <AaronSw> It's a good word.
19:51:30 <Morbus> we must evangelize fositives! <g>
19:52:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, new Tom Mabe album out.
19:52:54 <Morbus> ? what's he like?
19:53:05 <AaronSw> He teases telemarketers and records it.
19:53:21 <AaronSw> Samples: http://www.tommabe.com/album.php
19:53:27 <Morbus> ah. 
19:53:31 <Morbus> no sound card at work ;)
19:53:44 <AaronSw> Aww, poor Morby. ;)
19:53:57 <Morbus> hehe.
19:55:17 <Morbus> syncassaurus is doing good. dunno if i'll make it in time though.
19:56:04 <AaronSw> Hmm... tick, tick, tick
19:56:25 <Morbus> i know, 15 days :(
19:57:22 <AaronSw> * AaronSw buys some RAM
19:57:28 <Morbus> i heard crucial ram was good.
19:57:39 <AaronSw> How funny! That's where I bought it from.
19:57:45 <Morbus> wow!
19:57:56 <Morbus> that's some metaphysical joojoo right there
19:58:04 <AaronSw> No kidding.
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20:00:24 <Morbus> ooh. new spolsky article.
20:00:45 <AaronSw> Yeah, Spolsky yet again defies common wisdom!
20:00:47 <AaronSw> :-)
20:01:10 <AaronSw> Hmm, this "Wearing and Tearing" is quite good!
20:01:18 <Morbus> hehehehe.
20:01:58 <AaronSw> Hmm, this looks like a good story: http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html
20:02:04 <Morbus> i fall into the not invented here syndrome an awful lot actually.
20:02:08 <Morbus> i want to remake everythng in my image ;)
20:02:51 <AaronSw> Heheh.
20:03:10 <AaronSw> Looking at the list of modules AmphetaDesk needs, I find that hard to believe.
20:03:19 <AaronSw> ;-)
20:03:23 <Morbus> bwahaha.
20:03:41 <Morbus> well, you know, funny thing, cos I rewrote LWP::Simple, and did my own http daemon instead of using HTTP::Daemon ;)
20:04:21 <Morbus> LWP::Simple I had to though for compilation on Mac's. and i did my own webserver "cos i wanted to learn how"... in a future version of ampheta, we'll be ripping my code out to use http::daemon, and multithread it
20:04:54 <AaronSw> Heheh.
20:08:13 <Morbus> i actually kinda agree with spolsky this time.
20:08:22 <Morbus> i rolled my own RSS parser instead of using xml::rss.
20:08:23 <AaronSw> Yeah, but he hyped it more than what he said.
20:08:29 <Morbus> written by rael.
20:08:44 <AaronSw> no... just hacked by him
20:08:52 <AaronSw> it really needs to be rewritten, as he's said multiple times
20:08:56 <AaronSw> but he hasn't had the time to do it
20:09:12 <Morbus> phone
20:12:24 <Morbus> yeah, i hacked one together using xml::simple, since that's what i was using with my config files and scriptingNews.
20:12:42 <Morbus> gives me more finer grain control of course. last i knew, xml::rss stripped out all html within tags
20:14:42 <Morbus> aaron, this looks good: http://www.mindlube.com/screenshots/slacker.html
20:15:55 <AaronSw> Oh, that does look cool.
20:17:01 <Morbus> shareware too.
20:18:46 <AaronSw> What's this mayacal?
20:19:01 <AaronSw> Oh, a Maya Calendar?
20:19:07 <Morbus> i have the maya screensaver.
20:19:24 <Morbus> but that's a different maya ;)
20:19:32 <AaronSw> I don't have much of a need for dates in Maya, but still it looks cool. ;)
20:19:45 <Morbus> hehe
20:20:22 <Morbus> i dunno what the shareware restriction is on slacker. haven't had a chance to dl it yet.
20:20:30 <Morbus> grabbed the latest mozilla for osx, and it wouldn't decompress. sigh.
20:20:55 <AaronSw> :(
20:21:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw mounts Slacker
20:21:04 <Morbus> the new tabbed interface is nice :)
20:21:10 <Morbus> yeah, lemme know what the shareware thingy is.
20:21:17 <Morbus> or your thoughts/impression.
20:21:23 <AaronSw> Hmm seems to be stuck
20:21:30 <Morbus> i like the built in date thing on slacker. that would push me over when comparing oo and it.
20:21:32 <AaronSw> Disk Copy, that is... oh never mind
20:22:03 <deltab> built-in date thing?
20:22:20 <AaronSw> oo?
20:22:21 <Morbus> it looks like it allows you to say "hey, this todo item should  be done by this date"
20:22:27 <Morbus> and then it would flag it if it's overdo.
20:22:29 <AaronSw> Heh, nice icon.
20:22:30 <Morbus> omnioutliner
20:22:35 <AaronSw> ahh
20:23:04 <deltab> hmm, why do people miss out the colon in timezones?
20:23:14 <AaronSw> I think it's a standard
20:23:26 <deltab> no, I've read the standard
20:23:40 <AaronSw> Slacker's sharewareness doesn't seem so bad... just puts up a sheet when you open the app
20:23:58 <AaronSw> I wish it would let me define repeating tasks.
20:24:02 <Morbus> can i hit "enter" or do i have to mouse to the button?
20:24:06 <deltab> there's a colon in the extended form
20:24:09 <Morbus> repeating tasks. ahhh. 
20:24:10 <Morbus> <g>
20:24:20 <Morbus> i wish a lot of things would let me do repeating tasks.
20:24:28 <deltab> and the date and time are in extended form, so the timezone should be too
20:24:34 <AaronSw> To create a new task? you need the mouse
20:24:41 <AaronSw> or type command-N
20:24:43 <Morbus> no, to get rid of the shareware sheet.
20:24:57 <AaronSw> Oh... I dunno... let me quit out and comeback in
20:25:12 <AaronSw> Hmm, now it's not there.
20:25:27 <AaronSw> Perhaps it was just that once?
20:25:30 <deltab> jabber's weirder though - it has extended-form dates and basic-form times
20:26:19 <AaronSw> weird
20:27:24 <AaronSw> Ooh, ligatures.
20:27:51 <Morbus> aaron, set your date forward 30 days <g>
20:27:53 <AaronSw> Cool, a "Make Sticky Note" button.
20:28:00 <Morbus> Ooh. that's nice!
20:29:56 <AaronSw> Setting my date forward a month doesn't do anything.
20:33:18 <Morbus> huh. 
20:33:28 <Morbus> well, i should try this out then.
20:33:40 <Morbus> the formats on the .todo file - proprietary? parsable? xml?
20:33:43 <Morbus> i'm being a pain, eh? ;)
20:34:40 <AaronSw> heh
20:35:18 <AaronSw> Without you, I never would have researched my purchase so much -- I just would have used it. ;)
20:36:14 <AaronSw> "foo.todo" may be a binary file.  See it anyway? 
20:36:30 <AaronSw> It's an object serialization... 
20:36:53 <AaronSw> Probably Java.
20:37:31 <AaronSw> Heh, a completion slider... I'm 60% done.
20:37:33 <Morbus> ah. or realbasic ;)
20:37:41 <AaronSw> Oh cool! It does do periodic tasks!
20:37:45 <Morbus> it does?!
20:37:48 <Morbus> oh crap, that rocks.
20:37:55 <AaronSw> And tons of options for them!
20:38:03 <Morbus> hehe! yeah! i love options! <g>
20:38:08 <AaronSw> Heh: "often"
20:38:11 <AaronSw> Wonder what that does.
20:38:21 <Morbus> heh. "brush your teeth"... "often".
20:38:40 <AaronSw> "often (fuzzy)" actually
20:38:41 <AaronSw> :)
20:38:51 <Morbus> hehe.
20:40:45 <Morbus> no one wants fuzzy teeth.
20:40:54 <AaronSw> """Slacker is fully functional shareware. It can be registered for a small cost which will unlock the application and stop the very infrequent nag messages. Please visit http://www.mindlube.com/ for downloads, updates and purchase information."""
20:41:20 <Morbus> ah cool. i like very infrequent. infrequent is good.
20:41:43 <AaronSw> Ooh, and it creates a system service too.
20:42:15 <Morbus> this is getting better and better.
20:42:18 <AaronSw> So you can send me todo items from IRC ;)
20:42:30 <Morbus> hehehe. yeah? how's that work?
20:42:56 <AaronSw> Drag and drop text onto it or select text and go to App Menu -> Services -> Make ToDo Item
20:43:20 <Morbus> wow. nice. 
20:47:46 <AaronSw> Hmm, the repeated tasks don't seem to be repeating.
20:59:15 <AaronSw> hmm, writing up my todo list in here is so depressing :(
21:09:34 <Morbus> ehheeh.
21:09:45 <Morbus> man, you should see mine. i still have stuff from a year and a half ago.
21:09:57 <AaronSw> that's all? ;)
21:10:17 <AaronSw> I started writing todo lists like two years ago, and they keep getting longer and longer that I need to create new ones.
21:10:22 <AaronSw> this is my fourth todo list
21:10:50 <AaronSw> i still have the first to complete... i'm just not interested in it anymore
21:10:59 <AaronSw> i guess that's one way to complete tasks ;)
21:11:12 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  Services will be back up in a moment, after some splits.  Please bear with us.
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21:14:57 <AaronSw> * AaronSw returns
21:16:13 <AaronSw> Whoa, that was weird.
21:17:11 <AaronSw> AaronSw has changed the topic to: Isn't there something you should be doing right about now?
21:19:08 <AaronSw> Sandro Hawke: "I suppose if you know what you're doing, using a chainsaw while naked is okay."
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22:00:53 <sbp> Is there? Like what?
22:01:02 <AaronSw> * AaronSw checks his new todo list
22:01:10 <sbp> ah
22:01:26 <AaronSw> You could Work on the ideal RDF API
22:01:37 <AaronSw> or * Port Blogspace to Python
22:01:55 <sbp> I could also attack my own todo list, rather than yours
22:02:03 <sbp> ah, we could swap todo lists!
22:02:48 <sbp> so you can write an EARL 1.0 schema and come up with a linearized canonical form
22:03:03 <AaronSw> You don't need a schema.
22:03:08 <AaronSw> canonical form of what?
22:03:16 <sbp> don't need a schema?
22:06:02 <AaronSw> Nah, people can just look at the examples.
22:06:28 <AaronSw> * AaronSw adds "Finish sbp's todo list so he can do stuff from mine" to his todo list
22:06:52 <sbp> lol!
22:07:04 <sbp> the examples: oh, that'll be productive
22:07:23 <sbp> perhaps the HTML specification should just have been a list of examples?
22:08:24 <AaronSw> That'd be much better, IMO.
22:08:29 <AaronSw> The DTDs suck
22:08:33 <AaronSw> :-)
22:08:54 <sbp> I agree that we need more examples, but I think RDF Schemata are useful for settling issues, and there are some experiments for which I needed the schema
22:09:23 <AaronSw> Ah, fine.
22:10:01 <sbp> and the canonical version is for the same example that RSS is canonical
22:12:59 <AaronSw> Oh, why do you want that?
22:14:49 <sbp> so that people who don't know about RDF can still look at some formalism and do it
22:15:11 <AaronSw> Yick.
22:15:34 <sbp> yeah, tell me about it
22:17:28 <sbp> heh, heh: earl:name "Bob B. Bobbington"
22:18:30 <AaronSw> lol
22:20:20 <sbp> Gotta run
22:20:24 <sbp> sbp has quit
22:20:25 <AaronSw> c'ya
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23:14:58 <sbp> Gotta run
23:17:58 <sbp> sbp has quit
23:19:54 <AaronSw> Woohoo! TiVo Ethernet card works.
23:24:45 <rillian> rillian has joined #swhack
23:24:54 <rillian> ooh, you have lurkers now?
23:25:05 <AaronSw> Lurkers? who?
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23:25:46 <rillian> well, there's two other nicks here
23:25:59 <AaronSw> They were both here last time, I think.
23:26:03 <AaronSw> logster, hello
23:26:23 <rillian> my memory must be going
23:26:41 <rillian> anyway, know what's up with the zero length files in /Library/Fonts/ ?
23:27:04 <AaronSw> Well I can guess: all the data is in their Resource Fork
23:27:31 <AaronSw> which ls -l won't show you
23:27:36 <rillian> * rillian wonders what happens if you install those on a UFS partion
23:28:04 <rillian> you are correct
23:28:16 <AaronSw> Hmm, no fonts for UFS folks ;)
23:28:25 <rillian> at least no MS ttf fonts
23:28:28 <AaronSw> Actually, I think they have some system of splitting it into files for UFS partitions.
23:28:35 <AaronSw> (as well as copying to other machines, etc.
23:28:36 <AaronSw> )
23:28:51 <rillian> yeah, ok
23:29:04 <rillian> I wonder if installing gnu fileutils was a really bad idea then
23:29:23 <rillian> serve them right for not calling /bin/cp I guess
23:29:38 <rillian> second question: the devtools working for you?
23:29:41 <AaronSw> Yep.
23:29:50 <AaronSw> I think there's a replacement bin/cp that groks resource forks
23:30:27 <rillian> hmm. projectbuilder won't run for me
23:30:59 <rillian> and I get errors like '/usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libSystem.dylib load command 6 unknown cmd field' on the cmdline
23:31:03 <AaronSw> You got the 10.1 version, right?
23:31:17 <rillian> yes. had some trouble installing it
23:31:28 <AaronSw> Ah, right, I remember.
23:31:43 <rillian> I'm afraid I'm going to have to wipe the thing and reinstall again
23:32:02 <AaronSw> :-(
23:32:05 <rillian> which's not supposed to be necessary on *nix, dammit
23:33:05 <AaronSw> That's a really weird error.
23:34:38 <AaronSw> Have you googled on it?
23:35:46 <AaronSw> Perhaps it's the Two-Level Namespace thing?
23:37:48 <rillian> oh, um. how does that work again?
23:38:08 <AaronSw> Beats me, all I know is that it's a source of frustration with linking.
23:38:21 <AaronSw> Thankfully I've been spared so far.
23:38:26 <rillian> AaronSw: good idea about google; I forget that they track recent posts. don't see anything useful so far
23:38:47 <AaronSw> Yeah, the new recent-stuff tracking is quite nice.
23:44:28 <rillian> aha, macosxtips.com has a report and a workaround
23:44:38 <rillian> replace the symlink with one to the debug version
23:44:57 <rillian> seems like the stuff in /usr/lib is just broken in general
23:45:23 <AaronSw> Ouch.
23:45:57 <rillian> seems like they rushed things out the door a bit
23:46:14 <AaronSw> Well, I'm still glad they released it.
23:46:59 <AaronSw> Well, gotta run... dinnertime
23:49:57 <rillian> cheers
23:50:55 <rillian> aha! looks like they might have posted a new version
23:51:02 <rillian> the date is later than what's on my disk
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