IRC log of swhack on 2001-10-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:43 [logster]
logster has joined #swhack
00:00:43 [forward.openprojects.net]
topic is: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza!
00:00:43 [forward.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster @sbp AaronSw deltab
00:00:48 [AaronSw]
LOL, what a homepage!
00:00:55 [AaronSw]
"An unofficial product of the World Wide Web"
00:00:58 [AaronSw]
<sbp> good, innit
00:00:58 [sbp]
good, innit
00:01:07 [sbp]
<sbp> I want to put a picture on it, though...
00:01:11 [sbp]
I need one of a duck
00:01:14 [AaronSw]
Where's the archived version?
00:01:34 [sbp]
on my Hard Drive!
00:01:42 [AaronSw]
Oh, pfft.
00:01:45 [AaronSw]
That's no good.
00:01:50 [sbp]
no good to you
00:02:02 [AaronSw]
I mean for in the future, when people read these logs -- they'll want to see what we're laughing about.
00:02:10 [AaronSw]
You should archive this homepage so people know.
00:02:18 [sbp]
well, that page will be up there. It's finished now
00:02:32 [AaronSw]
Oh, not forever, I hope.
00:02:41 [sbp]
as long as my server runs, I guess
00:02:47 [AaronSw]
And you destroyed the WebPad!
00:02:52 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw cries
00:02:55 [sbp]
WebPad?
00:03:11 [AaronSw]
Yeah, /sbp/?fooo
00:03:27 [AaronSw]
Good thing I have it all in my archiver.
00:03:35 [AaronSw]
So much information...lost
00:03:38 [sbp]
that was just junk though... there was no good information in there
00:03:51 [AaronSw]
How can you decide that?!
00:03:59 [sbp]
the only good information is "here is a link to something that I do, here is a link to my email address"
00:04:04 [sbp]
it's mine to decide
00:04:10 [AaronSw]
No it's not!
00:04:21 [AaronSw]
You are not arbiter of what information the World should find Useful.
00:04:27 [sbp]
* sbp wonders if Aaron likes the new page or not :-)
00:04:33 [sbp]
oh, of course not...
00:04:41 [sbp]
but I'm the arbiter of what appears on infomesh.net
00:04:47 [AaronSw]
I like it, but only as an April Fool's joke.
00:04:54 [sbp]
* sbp looks at the calendar
00:04:57 [AaronSw]
Well sure, but destroying all that Useful Information.
00:05:03 [AaronSw]
...
00:05:08 [AaronSw]
it's just so sad
00:05:22 [sbp]
cite me some useful information! no one will miss it. If they do, they can email me
00:05:27 [AaronSw]
And you threw your persistence policy out the window.
00:05:29 [AaronSw]
!
00:05:36 [AaronSw]
What about my links to http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheB ?
00:05:57 [sbp]
actually, that still stands. My contract was, "A Homepage Of Sean B. Palmer". The links to the PURL still work perfectly
00:06:03 [AaronSw]
And you've wiped "Bertie The Agoraphobic Penguin" off the face of the Earth.
00:06:26 [sbp]
that didn't exist anyway
00:06:31 [AaronSw]
Yes it did!
00:06:37 [sbp]
I didn't link to it. I don't even think it's online (is it?)
00:06:43 [AaronSw]
yep it is....
00:06:54 [sbp]
seriously? I can't remember publishing it...
00:07:00 [AaronSw]
You didn't.
00:07:43 [sbp]
anyway, it's no loss. It wasn't a good story anyway. Satire? Pff... I've seen better satire conducted on Temptation Island
00:07:58 [sbp]
(just for the record, I have not watched that sleazy pile of crap)
00:08:07 [AaronSw]
heheh
00:08:10 [sbp]
:-)
00:08:32 [sbp]
When the call something a sleazy piece of crap in the Simpsons blackboard gag, you know it must be pretty sleazy!
00:08:36 [AaronSw]
I can't believe you! Information-killer!
00:08:53 [sbp]
I put it out to graze/stud!
00:09:23 [AaronSw]
stud?
00:09:29 [sbp]
Hmm... with one click, I could delete the whole lot
00:09:38 [sbp]
can information mate?
00:09:53 [AaronSw]
Nah, you can't delete it -- I still have most of it.
00:10:51 [sbp]
aw, it won't even let me delete it
00:11:15 [AaronSw]
I hate it when folks try to kill good information. I thought you were above that.
00:11:16 [sbp]
ooh, I can delete /2001/
00:11:39 [AaronSw]
This is like the father in "Maus" who threw out all the valuable historical records.
00:11:43 [deltab]
sbp: what happened to the info on @@?
00:11:58 [sbp]
Hmm... no I can't. Bugger
00:12:05 [sbp]
@@: I'll redirect it in a second
00:12:06 [AaronSw]
http://purl.org/net/@@ -- that was useful!
00:12:24 [AaronSw]
Threw it all out in a fit of anger!
00:12:42 [sbp]
pffff, anger
00:12:43 [AaronSw]
The information isn't yours to destroy -- it belongs to the Web -- the Web deserves it!
00:13:21 [sbp]
wow, my FTP server is really smegged up...
00:13:26 [sbp]
She Belongs To Me
00:14:03 [AaronSw]
Heh: "Everything to do with the SW at the moment is so "data orientated" and unfriendly (with good reason). So I wanted to create a nice little example of what the SW could do for the people it is being made for: us!"
00:14:56 [AaronSw]
Huh?: "This is an example of the brand new HyperText system being developed by Tim Berners-Lee and Dan Connolly. It uses the first ever SGML DTD developed for HTML (by Dan Connolly)."
00:14:59 [AaronSw]
- http://infomesh.net/2000/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/
00:16:03 [AaronSw]
I love this line, though: "That's one of my email addresses, but on weekends I let it out to a takeaway firm, so only enquire about menu prices during the week."
00:16:42 [AaronSw]
Shoot! My archiver was off! Grrr.
00:18:29 [sbp]
* sbp tries to recover @@
00:18:43 [AaronSw]
Hmm, you destroyed http://www.waptechinfo.com/ too?
00:19:18 [AaronSw]
Sean B. Palmer - President WAP Tech Info on design: http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/eod/
00:20:17 [AaronSw]
"I estimate that this document is about 1-3 years ahead of its time. This will soon be the location of an entire site dedicated to web design of the future, through XHTML 2.0 and beyond!" - http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/exp/
00:20:32 [sbp]
* sbp should remove all of that crap
00:20:37 [AaronSw]
No!
00:22:28 [sbp]
* sbp is trying to, but my computer is making it difficult
00:22:49 [AaronSw]
You're on a mad rampage today. Who's around? I need them to tackle you to the ground to stop you!
00:23:11 [deltab]
you deleted TheSimpsons!
00:23:29 [sbp]
I did? So I did
00:23:54 [AaronSw]
At least we still have http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/homer/
00:24:01 [sbp]
I cannot understand why people are so attached to the stuff that I've just temporarily deleted!
00:24:08 [AaronSw]
temporarily?
00:24:10 [sbp]
that's one of the things I'm trying to delete right now
00:24:26 [sbp]
well, it's still there. I just screwed it up a bit
00:24:33 [sbp]
well, some of it's still there
00:24:59 [sbp]
wow, it's actually deleting /2000/xhtml/
00:25:10 [AaronSw]
good thing I archived that already.
00:25:13 [sbp]
* sbp wonders if he has a copy... didn't mean to delete it just yet
00:25:22 [deltab]
This page has not been found on the requested server (infomesh.net). It
00:25:22 [deltab]
may be that the link you have followed is incorrect, or in the worst case,
00:25:22 [deltab]
this page has moved. If you think that this may be the case, please
00:25:22 [deltab]
contact the site's owner, because he knows that Cool URIs Don't Change.
00:25:37 [sbp]
heh, heh. Strangely ironic, eh?
00:25:44 [AaronSw]
Yeah, really.
00:25:58 [AaronSw]
Did you forget to take your medicine or something? You've gone completely insane!
00:26:15 [sbp]
I really hate that old stuff, so its gone. What's the problem?
00:26:29 [AaronSw]
Get your mum to smack you really hard. Maybe you'll wake up.
00:26:33 [sbp]
the WebPad stuff is still there. I'm just kidding with that
00:26:50 [sbp]
it'll take about two mouse clicks to restore it...
00:26:57 [AaronSw]
You sound like one of those mad dictators who hold the hero hostage and say "I really hate that country, so its gone. What's the probelm?"
00:27:04 [AaronSw]
(in a movie of course)
00:27:21 [sbp]
ta da
00:27:32 [sbp]
http://infomesh.net/sbp/?TheSimpsons
00:27:55 [AaronSw]
Phew.
00:28:09 [sbp]
a couple more clicks, and it's gone again! Wow, the power
00:28:19 [AaronSw]
Ugh!
00:29:18 [AaronSw]
Well, I got up to Kashmir.
00:29:19 [sbp]
seriously though, I'm looking to streamline the whole site causing as little damage as possible
00:29:41 [AaronSw]
I hope the world will not blame me too much for not acting faster and getting more stuff.
00:30:06 [sbp]
I doubt it... it's really just junk. And it's my junk (c)
00:30:34 [sbp]
I mean, honestly! There's not much value in it. I want to make a new site that has all of the good bits in it, but with none of the crap
00:30:54 [AaronSw]
Fine, do so -- but don't destroy the old!
00:32:28 [sbp]
well, I'm going to restore homer, but none of the other xhtml crap
00:33:09 [sbp]
ta da: http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/homer/
00:33:28 [sbp]
quite a cool page, that
00:34:00 [sbp]
Hmm... whilst I'm cleaning up, what other embarrasing stuff can I delete...
00:35:26 [sbp]
ah, of course
00:36:10 [AaronSw]
grrr
00:36:12 [sbp]
Hmm... why isn't that working?
00:36:48 [sbp]
oh, of course... oops
00:36:57 [sbp]
there, xWebL has gone!
00:37:31 [AaronSw]
Ha! Not so fast!
00:37:51 [sbp]
?
00:37:58 [AaronSw]
I've archived your whole site!
00:38:16 [sbp]
but what can you do with it?
00:38:22 [sbp]
it's mine, copyrighted
00:38:35 [AaronSw]
I'll upload it to Sealand.
00:38:42 [sbp]
Sealand?
00:38:52 [AaronSw]
HavenCo -- where they don't recognixe copyright.
00:39:03 [sbp]
Hmm...
00:39:11 [sbp]
I can still delete infomesh.net at the root
00:39:47 [sbp]
so it'll be effectively useless
00:39:57 [AaronSw]
Infomesh?
00:40:17 [sbp]
yeah
00:40:35 [AaronSw]
But it'll all still be at HavenCo!
00:40:49 [sbp]
so? people won't know it's there
00:40:56 [AaronSw]
I backlink it so they will!
00:41:31 [sbp]
backlink?
00:41:46 [AaronSw]
Well if they do link: searches on google, they'll find it.
00:41:57 [AaronSw]
I'll tag them in RDF too.
00:42:18 [sbp]
O.K. then, I'll do it
00:43:10 [AaronSw]
No!
00:43:13 [AaronSw]
I was just kidding!
00:44:03 [sbp]
* sbp gets the necessary tools
00:44:14 [AaronSw]
Quick, call his Mom!
00:45:56 [sbp]
argh, it won't let me delete huge files over IE
00:46:16 [AaronSw]
Ugh, I didn't get all of it downloaded.
00:47:55 [sbp]
what did you miss?
00:48:05 [AaronSw]
I don't know -- it's all screwed up now.
00:48:09 [sbp]
good
00:48:13 [AaronSw]
Looks like I missed probably most of it.
00:48:30 [AaronSw]
good? why?
00:48:45 [AaronSw]
You know you'll regret all this in the morning.
00:48:47 [sbp]
no trace of it then
00:49:02 [sbp]
Nah, I won't regret it. Why would I regret it? And anyway, it is the morning here
00:49:17 [AaronSw]
Ugh, it's worse than I've thought.
00:49:33 [AaronSw]
You've really got it, haven't you.
00:49:49 [sbp]
got what?
00:49:54 [AaronSw]
"Be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box!"
00:50:00 [AaronSw]
insanity, that's what.
00:50:11 [sbp]
nah; cool experiment, though
00:50:31 [AaronSw]
How so?
00:50:56 [sbp]
just wondered how persistent my information was. In some ways, it's too persistent, in other ways not enough
00:51:18 [AaronSw]
Heh: wiki.wiki.wah.wah.worldwidewiki.com
00:51:39 [sbp]
Too persistent: stuff like the old 2000 stuff which I really regret is now lodged in these bloody chatarchives. Not persistent enough: I deleted the WebPAd, and it's gone
00:51:59 [AaronSw]
You deleted the WebPad?!
00:52:28 [sbp]
theoretically
00:52:34 [AaronSw]
http://infomesh.net/sbp/?KillMeNow
00:52:52 [sbp]
and the xWebL stuff too
00:53:09 [sbp]
and most of /2000/xhtml/, except for /2000/xhtml/homer/
00:53:51 [sbp]
about how much of the site have you archived? in percentage
00:54:04 [AaronSw]
I have no idea!
00:54:18 [AaronSw]
Heh, Bob Dylan just sang: "I've got no idea."
00:54:31 [AaronSw]
"... Or maybe I do, but I'm just really not sure."
00:54:40 [sbp]
Neat!
00:54:46 [sbp]
Sugar Baby!
00:54:49 [AaronSw]
I have no way to know how big your site is.
00:54:55 [sbp]
I love that song...
00:55:01 [sbp]
I just played it a few minutes ago
00:55:09 [sbp]
big: about 30MB, I think
00:55:33 [sbp]
actually, what song are you listening to?
00:55:45 [AaronSw]
"Highlands"
00:55:54 [AaronSw]
from "Time Out Of Mind"
00:56:12 [AaronSw]
"She says 'I know you're an artist, draw a picture of me'"
00:56:23 [sbp]
I don't do sketches from memory
00:56:27 [AaronSw]
Exactly.
00:56:41 [AaronSw]
So timely.
00:56:44 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw cries again
00:56:49 [sbp]
yeah... sorry, I was humming Sugar Baby, and sang the lyrics to that song. Weird
00:57:07 [sbp]
Which ones have you read then?
00:57:20 [AaronSw]
Huh?
00:57:26 [sbp]
(it's in the song)
00:58:26 [sbp]
She said you don't read women authors do you? At least that's what I think I hear her say. I say how would you know, and what would it matter anyway? She said you just don't seem like you do. I said, you're way wrong. "she said, 'well which ones have you read then?'"
00:58:34 [sbp]
etc.
00:58:48 [AaronSw]
Yeah... just got there now.
00:58:51 [sbp]
:-)
00:58:57 [AaronSw]
I say "Read Erica Jong"
01:00:12 [sbp]
that's a cool song too; the length and album placement is reminiscent of Sad Eyed Lady
01:00:27 [sbp]
but it's certainly it's own song. Just Bob telling a story
01:00:56 [sbp]
what stuff did I delete, again?
01:01:09 [AaronSw]
umm, the SBP webpad
01:01:18 [AaronSw]
and /2000
01:01:23 [sbp]
and xWebL
01:01:27 [AaronSw]
yep
01:01:31 [sbp]
I've restored the WebPad and xWebL
01:01:46 [sbp]
bollocks to /2000/xhtml/
01:02:17 [AaronSw]
Heh.
01:02:43 [sbp]
but one day, I might have to get rid of it all
01:02:49 [AaronSw]
Why?
01:03:05 [sbp]
my local archives are smegged, and they're planning to move the site soon
01:03:21 [sbp]
so I might have to reupload the stuff, and stuff will go missing
01:03:28 [AaronSw]
Can't you let me do a big FTP download or something?
01:03:45 [sbp]
that's a last resort, if you'd be willing to do it :-)
01:03:52 [AaronSw]
Of course! ;-)
01:03:57 [sbp]
cheers
01:04:07 [sbp]
but really, it's bad management on my behalf
01:04:26 [sbp]
I agree with your "flat server" proposal (for small sites like mine and yours)
01:04:40 [AaronSw]
See how they learn! ;-)
01:04:41 [sbp]
and am thinking of starting again with a new domain, and a new filing system
01:04:53 [sbp]
hence the experiment today
01:05:07 [sbp]
I'm not fond of the way I've done things at infomesh.net
01:05:17 [AaronSw]
So how would you have done it?
01:05:28 [sbp]
I
01:05:36 [sbp]
I'm writing a document now about it
01:05:48 [sbp]
I figure: SSI is harmful
01:05:57 [AaronSw]
Why?
01:06:02 [sbp]
so are file extensions. so that rules out ASP...
01:06:21 [sbp]
because they allow you to put files in all sorts of weird places, and they don't port
01:06:29 [sbp]
ASP => PHP doesn't go
01:07:19 [sbp]
so I reckon one flat database of a host of XHTML/text files is the best option
01:07:39 [sbp]
multimedia can go somepace else, but I'm not keen on hosting huge chunks of multimedia
01:08:01 [sbp]
there should be just a few base kick-ass styles
01:08:01 [AaronSw]
Heh, a lot like a Blogspace, eh? ;-)
01:08:14 [sbp]
Blogspace: yeah, but without any server trickery
01:08:27 [sbp]
I don't have access to a TCL enabled server, so it's not viable
01:08:46 [sbp]
you're just lucky, you've got the server, the knowhow, and the money to do cool things
01:08:50 [sbp]
I haven't :-)
01:09:10 [AaronSw]
I don't really have the money -- just good friends ;-)
01:09:18 [sbp]
:-)
01:11:15 [sbp]
so that's my plan. I'm fed up with infomesh.net, so I plan to move it, update it, delete it, do whatever
01:11:35 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: "Memory Is Like A Wossname": An experiment in persistence
01:12:05 [AaronSw]
Don't delete it! If you get really annoyed, bequeath it to me and all host it as an archive like TimBL keeps talking about.
01:12:23 [sbp]
it was interesting to see your response. In all actuality, I don't think that the information is all that important
01:12:47 [AaronSw]
Really?
01:12:48 [AaronSw]
Heh, it was fun to play the part.
01:12:52 [sbp]
I also think that information should be the authors to maintain
01:13:07 [AaronSw]
Yeah, but this world is endowed with a lot of stupid authors.
01:13:13 [sbp]
yeah, only about 1% of the data on infomesh.net is actually important
01:13:21 [sbp]
yeah, I know. I run the club
01:13:40 [AaronSw]
Heheh. Nah, you're better than most of 'em. It's really just the famous ones that're stupid.
01:13:40 [AaronSw]
Like that interview with Dylan you pointed me to.
01:13:55 [sbp]
er... famous server maintainers?
01:14:07 [AaronSw]
No, famous creators.
01:14:10 [sbp]
:-)
01:14:22 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw plays "How To Disappear Completely"
01:14:34 [sbp]
if you could only retrieve 20KB of data from your site, what would it be? think about it
01:14:48 [AaronSw]
They're to emotionally attached (or detached) from their work to respect it.
01:14:52 [sbp]
now, what if you could only *host* 20KB. The answer would probably be different
01:15:07 [AaronSw]
Ugh, from my site? You're not going to bomb it, are you?
01:15:11 [sbp]
famous people: they can do what they do, and I'll do what I do
01:15:19 [sbp]
heh, bomb it
01:15:34 [sbp]
no really: what would you keep for yourself, and keep for the world?
01:15:46 [AaronSw]
I dunno, I have know way to judge.
01:15:51 [AaronSw]
I can't even remember what's on my server.
01:15:54 [sbp]
lol
01:16:12 [AaronSw]
David McCusker explained it to me -- I don't think in words.
01:16:29 [AaronSw]
I think is spatial relationships... pictures.
01:16:50 [sbp]
yeah, sure, but if you were forced, you'd soon do it
01:17:01 [sbp]
you'd just look through whatever files you had and grab
01:17:02 [AaronSw]
The words are an inconsequential representation of the relationships
01:17:06 [AaronSw]
so I soon forget the words.
01:17:14 [sbp]
what if I gave you a minute? if you don't save anything, it's all gone
01:17:23 [AaronSw]
I'd grab whatever I could.
01:17:32 [AaronSw]
Making decisions would waste time.
01:17:34 [sbp]
you only have 20KB for some reason
01:17:59 [sbp]
anyway, you're just fucking with the point that I'm trying to make...
01:18:14 [sbp]
that "joke" homepage was really all that I thought the world needs of information about me in the kind of /sbp/ space
01:18:24 [AaronSw]
Well, I know that.
01:18:27 [sbp]
in fact, it was much more
01:18:50 [AaronSw]
But you're a dumbo and so you were wrong.
01:18:58 [sbp]
really? how so?
01:19:03 [AaronSw]
People just can't seem to be objective about themselves and their work.
01:19:20 [AaronSw]
You're wrong in every way imaginable.
01:19:43 [sbp]
well, I don't read or use any of the information on my site. My own site is useless to me! aaaargh! That's not how I wanted it at all
01:20:19 [AaronSw]
Hmm...
01:20:19 [sbp]
and it's very, very, rarely visited, ergo it is probably fairly useless to most people
01:20:26 [AaronSw]
You think so?
01:20:34 [sbp]
well, not all of it. I'm generalizing
01:20:37 [AaronSw]
Perhaps today... but what about Semantic Web historians?
01:20:41 [sbp]
99% of the site is rubbish
01:20:52 [sbp]
the Semantic Web stuff is useful: it's part of the 1%
01:21:01 [AaronSw]
30yrs in the future, that xhtml stuff will be very valuable to discerning the growth and change of the Semantic Web's top guy!
01:21:18 [sbp]
that xhtml stuff was rubbish, and you know it
01:21:24 [AaronSw]
I don't think so.
01:21:36 [sbp]
it was garbage!
01:21:52 [AaronSw]
Well it's not my fault you're blind *and* dumb!
01:21:57 [AaronSw]
;-)
01:22:18 [sbp]
it really is garbage. In fact, it was stupid
01:22:32 [sbp]
just bad material, derogatory. the server is better off without it
01:22:40 [sbp]
and it's gone
01:22:41 [AaronSw]
Do I have to get your mum to smack you again?
01:22:51 [sbp]
blimey Aaron, just read it!
01:22:54 [AaronSw]
Nah, I still have it. And I bet you do to.
01:23:18 [sbp]
of course I still have it, but it really isn't on the server, except for /2000/xhtml/homer/
01:24:12 [sbp]
I mean, you even cited pieces above and laughed at them. And with due cause: they are laughable
01:24:29 [AaronSw]
The people of the future have no need for XHTML humor? I think not!
01:24:36 [deltab]
what xhtml stuff?
01:24:41 [sbp]
it was hardly humor
01:24:44 [AaronSw]
http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/
01:24:50 [sbp]
it was waaaaaaay to dry
01:25:00 [AaronSw]
That's what made it funny!
01:25:53 [AaronSw]
All information is useful information!
01:26:01 [AaronSw]
You cannot judge what the future will want/need.
01:26:16 [AaronSw]
You have no right to kill innocent bits.
01:26:37 [sbp]
TS
01:26:40 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw puts this at logicerror.com/information
01:26:45 [sbp]
nooooo!
01:26:55 [sbp]
I know you won't, 'cause it will upset me
01:27:09 [AaronSw]
What will?
01:28:15 [AaronSw]
Hmm, looks like logster always dies right on the day switchover -- a bug?
01:28:45 [sbp]
er... I was thinking of something different :-)
01:29:07 [sbp]
all information is useful information: no, it depends upon how it is being used
01:29:12 [AaronSw]
What? The archives of /2000/xhtml/ ?
01:29:23 [sbp]
pardon?
01:29:23 [AaronSw]
what was the something different?
01:29:26 [sbp]
yes
01:29:36 [AaronSw]
what was the something different?
01:29:39 [AaronSw]
The archives of /2000/xhtml/ ?
01:29:46 [sbp]
yes!
01:29:55 [AaronSw]
ok, just making sure.
01:29:58 [sbp]
* sbp misread what as that
01:30:23 [AaronSw]
Coming soon to a HavenCo server far away from you ;-)
01:30:32 [AaronSw]
oh, good! google's cached it.
01:30:33 [sbp]
heh, Stuart "reads what he wants to read" too. When he's reading something, he'll kind of guess what he's reading
01:30:53 [sbp]
Google? Damn it
01:31:28 [AaronSw]
/html/subs/ "The subdirectories of xhtml.waptechinfo.com are fast growing into a legendary status. They consist of programming junk that is highly future orientated and experimental. Really they are just a hacking playground where I (Sean B. Palmer) can upload some of my experiments to test on the WWW, but also they serve to actually try to influence the future of the Internet itself."
01:32:10 [AaronSw]
Ugh, at least bring back http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/swr/
01:32:13 [AaronSw]
That was quite useful.
01:32:25 [AaronSw]
And I cited it!
01:32:30 [sbp]
http://infomesh.net/swr/
01:32:38 [sbp]
I moved it ages ago!
01:32:50 [AaronSw]
Well put a redirect in!
01:32:55 [sbp]
O.K.
01:34:02 [sbp]
done
01:34:16 [AaronSw]
tx
01:34:35 [sbp]
- /html/subs/: stop citing stuff! please?
01:34:39 [AaronSw]
"Ideas for XHTML 2.0" is quite good.
01:34:47 [AaronSw]
"Some Ideas For Review By The HTML WG For XHTML 2.0
01:34:47 [AaronSw]
"
01:35:01 [sbp]
* sbp cries
01:35:02 [AaronSw]
Well, I'll just copy the whole page in, shouldn't I.
01:35:10 [AaronSw]
Oh, I better copy the HTML source in.
01:35:27 [AaronSw]
You know, I wouldn't want to spam the channel with it -- I'll email it to www-archive
01:35:31 [sbp]
I can threaten you with deleting huge chunks of the server
01:35:42 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw laughs hysterically!
01:35:55 [sbp]
I will do it. It was a mistake for me to publish that information
01:36:03 [sbp]
now who's going insane?
01:36:03 [AaronSw]
I'm just kidding.
01:36:23 [sbp]
(add smileys liberally at both ends)
01:36:42 [sbp]
but I do want you to stop citing stuff...
01:37:47 [AaronSw]
Hmm, this is good fodder for xWebL:
01:37:51 [AaronSw]
"eXtended Structural Markup Language 1.0
01:37:52 [AaronSw]
(An eXtensible HyperText Markup Language Family)"
01:37:57 [AaronSw]
- http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:http://infomesh.net/2000/xhtml/xsml/
01:38:02 [AaronSw]
Get it while it's hot!
01:38:14 [AaronSw]
:-)
01:38:22 [sbp]
that was quite a good demonstration of m12n, actually
01:38:52 [AaronSw]
Well, I think I've saved all of it now.
01:39:39 [AaronSw]
Heh, blanu.net: "The Enterprise Portal for the 5 or so people that care what I'm doing."
01:39:50 [AaronSw]
People really underestimate themselves.
01:40:05 [AaronSw]
Except for Bush, who misunderestimates himself. ;-)
01:44:03 [AaronSw]
Sean?
01:44:23 [sbp]
yes?
01:44:42 [AaronSw]
This silence is bad. What are you doing now?
01:45:24 [sbp]
ahem...
01:45:31 [AaronSw]
s/doing/deleting/
01:46:29 [sbp]
I'm trying to work out how to delete the whole thing. it's baffling me now
01:46:40 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw smacks sbp back and forth!
01:46:52 [AaronSw]
Quick, give me FTP access
01:46:59 [AaronSw]
You need an executor.
01:48:20 [sbp]
* sbp wonders what the old program he used is
01:50:00 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw is a bit worried that the Federal Consumer Information Center was bought by MetLife
01:56:47 [sbp]
right, here we go now...
01:57:29 [AaronSw]
Noooooooo!
01:57:38 [AaronSw]
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
01:57:47 [sbp]
you don't even know what I'm doing!
01:58:02 [sbp]
I'm just downloading a decent FTP client
01:58:20 [AaronSw]
Hmmph, it must be for something evil.
01:58:31 [sbp]
to FTP thing
01:58:36 [sbp]
s/thing/things
02:00:00 [AaronSw]
Jakob Nielsen: """Historical note: I first used the term "flash crowd" as relating to the Web to refer to the overloading of the webserver for the 1994 Winter Olympics in Lillehammer. I borrowed the phrase from a science fiction story by Larry Niven that referred to the crowding that would happen if the world had Star Trek-type transporters and curious people could instantaneously beam into hot spots; the Web is experiencing this phenomenon virt
02:00:05 [AaronSw]
Sounds like a neat story.
02:00:47 [AaronSw]
Heh: "When a Linux guy says that MS is less-than-fully-evil, you gotta pay attention. "
02:00:52 [AaronSw]
From http://useit.com/hotlist/spotlight.html
02:01:02 [ZeroBLANK]
ZeroBLANK has joined #swhack
02:01:16 [ZeroBLANK]
ZeroBLANK has left #swhack
02:04:54 [sbp]
* sbp is very fed up
02:05:14 [sbp]
I can't delete infomesh.net! no matter how hard I try. I'll have to ask the server guys how to do it
02:05:53 [AaronSw]
Grr, perhaps it's trying to tell you something, dolt!
02:06:23 [sbp]
it's trying to say, "contact the server guys and ask them how to do it"
02:06:38 [AaronSw]
No it's saying, "give up, you jerk".
02:06:46 [AaronSw]
The server guys will probably say that too.
02:07:01 [sbp]
nah, they'll tell me how to do it
02:12:20 [sbp]
it's weird, all this time I've been worried that my site isn't persistent
02:12:27 [sbp]
and now I can't delete it! great!
02:12:32 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw replaces the ?s in Blogspace and *s.
02:12:38 [AaronSw]
s/and/with/
02:12:43 [sbp]
?
02:12:48 [AaronSw]
See it is persistent after all.
02:12:59 [sbp]
pardon?
02:13:15 [AaronSw]
"Some folks are big into Amaya? for writing hypertext (others can't stand it), but TimBL still wants an intuitive hypertext editor?."
02:13:17 [AaronSw]
becomes
02:13:26 [AaronSw]
"Some folks are big into Amaya* for writing hypertext (others can't stand it), but TimBL still wants an intuitive hypertext editor*.
02:13:32 [sbp]
ah, that's better
02:13:45 [sbp]
yeah CopyingWikiIsntCool
02:13:55 [AaronSw]
heh
02:13:57 [sbp]
:-)
02:14:10 [AaronSw]
Hmm, it didn't work...
02:14:31 [sbp]
you've broken a link on http://logicerror.com/hypertext BTW
02:15:07 [AaronSw]
How so?
02:15:21 [AaronSw]
content-centered?
02:16:14 [sbp]
I live Jorn's stuff
02:16:21 [sbp]
yeah, it has no " at the end
02:16:43 [AaronSw]
You live it?
02:16:51 [sbp]
er... like
02:16:54 [AaronSw]
Mark Bernstein thinks he's insane.
02:17:20 [sbp]
well, he's a crud designer, but so are Joe Clark and Jackob Neilsen
02:17:42 [sbp]
thinks that Mark Bernstein is insane?
02:18:23 [AaronSw]
No, Mark thinks Jorn is. see http://markbernstein.org/
02:20:34 [sbp]
heh! maybe he's right
02:20:43 [sbp]
but he seems to have some good design tips
02:21:30 [AaronSw]
That's true.
02:21:30 [AaronSw]
I think all cool/interesting people are insane.
02:22:14 [sbp]
* sbp is glad for once that he's neither cool nor intersting
02:22:30 [AaronSw]
Sure you are -- and if today has proved anything it's that you're insane. ;-)
02:23:13 [sbp]
blargh
02:23:32 [sbp]
I just want to delete infomesh.net and starty afresh on a new site! What's wrong with that? :-)
02:23:39 [sbp]
s/starty/start
02:23:52 [AaronSw]
You can start afresh but you don't need to delete old stuff.
02:27:13 [sbp]
well, what if I want to move some of the old stuff?
02:27:20 [AaronSw]
Why would you?
02:27:42 [sbp]
better organization
02:28:46 [AaronSw]
But I thought you wanted to start afresh.
02:28:55 [sbp]
and anyway, I don't like the old stuff. I want to purge it! please let me delete it... please?
02:29:02 [sbp]
just some of it
02:29:14 [sbp]
I'll keep the good bits!
02:29:35 [AaronSw]
No!
02:29:44 [AaronSw]
Someone has to keep the voice of reason around here.
02:29:58 [sbp]
I want to refactor infomesh.net!
02:37:30 [AaronSw]
So do it in a date-space!
02:37:36 [AaronSw]
and don't change any of the rest of it.
02:37:44 [AaronSw]
say, infomesh.net/2.0/ or something
02:37:51 [sbp]
lol
02:38:14 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after the usual splits. Thanks for your patience.
02:38:25 [sbp]
but I have the right to do what I want with my own information, surely? I'm basically just updating it. Where do you draw the line?
02:38:38 [ChanServ]
ChanServ has changed the topic to:
02:39:26 [AaronSw]
Well, when the average user doesn't get what they're looking for, of course.
02:39:48 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: "Memory Is Like A Whatchamacallit": An experiment in persistence
02:43:14 [sbp]
Gotta run
02:43:18 [AaronSw]
bye
02:43:27 [sbp]
c'ya, thanks for chatting
02:43:29 [sbp]
sbp has quit
02:43:38 [AaronSw]
Thank you for not deleting your site!
03:01:44 [BenSw]
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03:02:26 [BenSw]
Aaron
03:02:40 [BenSw]
where would be a howto on making an Irc bot/
03:02:55 [AaronSw]
In what language?
03:03:04 [BenSw]
come on aaron
03:03:11 [BenSw]
english
03:03:13 [AaronSw]
No, I mean what programming language.
03:03:18 [BenSw]
python
03:04:03 [AaronSw]
Some good stuff at: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=python+irc+bot
03:05:16 [BenSw]
shuld i choose dagny?
03:05:31 [AaronSw]
Nah, it's not async IO.
03:05:40 [BenSw]
huh?
03:05:55 [AaronSw]
Never mind.
03:05:58 [AaronSw]
Dan Connolly has some good stuff at: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/scribe-bot/
03:06:21 [BenSw]
would this be a howto?
03:06:22 [AaronSw]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2000/scribe-bot/ircAsync.py?rev=1.8&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup is pretty good.
03:06:35 [AaronSw]
I don't think you'll find much in the way of howtos
03:06:49 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has left #swhack
03:06:55 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has joined #swhack
03:08:06 [BenSw]
will you help me make one?
03:08:55 [AaronSw]
Sure.
03:09:26 [BenSw]
whois deltab?
03:09:49 [AaronSw]
*** deltab is deltab@mewtwo.espnow.com (Daniel Biddle)
03:10:07 [BenSw]
ahh so he isn't a bot
03:10:51 [AaronSw]
No.
03:11:02 [AaronSw]
He's ESP's sysadmin.
03:11:15 [BenSw]
ahh
03:11:29 [deltab]
heh, thanks
03:11:40 [AaronSw]
:-)
03:12:52 [BenSw]
Aaron... can you go to my imac and get snak and put me online?
03:15:09 [BenSw]
Aaron?
03:15:18 [AaronSw]
Oh, you mean download Snak?
03:15:38 [AaronSw]
BenSw?
03:15:56 [BenSw]
yes
03:16:04 [AaronSw]
...
03:16:26 [BenSw]
why is that a problem>??
03:17:12 [AaronSw]
It's downloading.
03:18:42 [BenSw]
thanks
03:20:13 [BenSw]
BenSw has quit
03:27:55 [AaronSw]
http://www2.linuxjournal.com/articles/culture/0027.html
03:28:11 [AaronSw]
""" But wait, is Freenet real time? Is it fast enough to play a satisfying game of anonymous Quake on top of it? No, it's about as fast as e-mail or a heavily loaded web server, depending on the weather. Remember the part about us being crazy and not getting paid. """
03:28:21 [AaronSw]
I think he might be exagerating the speed just a bit.
03:29:27 [BenSW]
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03:32:10 [BenSW]
Aaron when can we start on IRCRPG?
03:32:19 [AaronSw]
You can start whenever you want.
03:33:04 [BenSW]
haven't you already made a bot python?
03:33:21 [AaronSw]
Huh?
03:33:41 [BenSW]
have you made an irc bot in python?
03:34:44 [AaronSw]
I've worked on one, yes.
03:35:04 [BenSW]
come over here and look at my snak interface
03:46:54 [AaronSw]
Heh: "Friends don't let friends do RPC"
03:48:11 [AaronSw]
Javaspaces on the Web: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2000Mar/0055.html
03:48:28 [AaronSw]
And TupleSpaces
03:48:47 [AaronSw]
From Danbri, no less!
04:08:45 [BenSW]
BenSW has quit
05:00:21 [AaronSw]
Whee!
05:00:35 [AaronSw]
I'm trying this voice thingy to see if I can highlight logging in the channel.
05:00:57 [AaronSw]
The other thing to do is give them names like *logster* so they sort to the top of the user list.
05:02:24 [AaronSw]
--
05:02:32 [AaronSw]
I hate going to sleep. Maybe I should stop doing it.
05:02:41 [AaronSw]
On the other hand, often, I love going to sleep. Odd.
05:03:05 [AaronSw]
While we're on the subject of persistence, I wonder what folks years from now will think of this comment.
11:14:56 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi, all. Services will be back up in a moment, after the usual splits. Please bear with us. Thanks.
11:15:31 [ChanServ]
ChanServ has changed the topic to:
13:06:47 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Ehm, uh, well... I don't remember.
13:22:32 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
13:23:02 [sbp]
oh no, I deleted stuff at infomesh.net!!! aaargh! what was I doing?
13:23:07 [sbp]
Just kidding...
13:24:14 [AaronSw]
Hahaha.
13:24:39 [sbp]
"I'm fed up with infomesh.net" - I should just make it clear that I'm fed up with the way that I've arranged the datya, not with infomesh.net itself, which is a really cool domain/idea
13:24:42 [sbp]
Hi Aaron
13:24:49 [AaronSw]
Hello
13:25:20 [AaronSw]
infomesh.net is a cool name -- Maybe I should call my big mesh idea the infomesh...
13:25:27 [sbp]
* sbp is actually just archiving another site which went down
13:25:31 [AaronSw]
I'd have to borrow your domain to host the website though.
13:25:44 [AaronSw]
Heh, this is your punishment for your sins!
13:25:46 [sbp]
Heh, "borrow"
13:25:46 [AaronSw]
What domain>
13:25:48 [AaronSw]
What domain?
13:25:55 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw hunts for Ethernet cable
13:25:58 [sbp]
not a domain... a site
13:26:31 [sbp]
a Spooklight site. It was one of the pioneers of the subject, and the company which hosted the site has removed it
13:26:45 [sbp]
(it's removed all the sites there)
13:26:51 [AaronSw]
Ouch.
13:26:57 [sbp]
I'm not sure if it's temoporary; I don't think it is
13:27:29 [AaronSw]
See, you never know about these sites -- their creator might go on a mad rampage and start deleting stuff.
13:27:50 [AaronSw]
I was thinking for my [Infomesh] project -- we could say that it doesn't have a name... but we do have a T-Shirt!
13:27:55 [sbp]
Heh, yeah
13:27:59 [AaronSw]
> Well what does the T-Shirt say?
13:28:11 [AaronSw]
It's blank! You write in the name when we decide.
13:28:26 [sbp]
what are you talking about?
13:28:37 [sbp]
(plaintive)
13:29:10 [AaronSw]
The T-shirt for my project.
13:29:15 [sbp]
lol:
13:29:16 [sbp]
[[[
13:29:17 [sbp]
03:02:55 <AaronSw> In what language?
13:29:17 [sbp]
03:03:04 <BenSw> come on aaron
13:29:17 [sbp]
03:03:11 <BenSw> english
13:29:18 [sbp]
]]]
13:29:22 [sbp]
what project is that?
13:29:39 [AaronSw]
The one with the meshy thing that transports data between places using triples.
13:30:04 [AaronSw]
I hate how when you drag windows, it doesn't make them any closer to stuff in the physical world.
13:31:03 [sbp]
er... O.K.
13:31:17 [AaronSw]
Don't you remember about my project?
13:31:28 [AaronSw]
I sent a letter to www-archive about it.
13:34:22 [sbp]
yeah, I rememeber
13:34:28 [sbp]
but you haven't documented much about it
13:34:44 [AaronSw]
That's why its important that we have a T-Shirt.
13:34:49 [AaronSw]
So it's not total vaporware.
13:34:51 [sbp]
lol!
13:34:55 [sbp]
Ugh
13:34:57 [sbp]
Gotta run
13:35:05 [AaronSw]
C'ya
13:35:18 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw curses stupid PDF software
13:35:39 [AaronSw]
When I click print on page 7 of a 400 page document, I just want you to print two copies of page 7!
13:35:45 [AaronSw]
Not the whole document!
13:37:57 [sbp]
sbp has quit
13:53:12 [AaronSw]
"I find this paragraph more convincing now than I did last week." writes Jeremy Carroll about a paragraph I wrote this morning.
15:36:38 [irc.openprojects.net]
Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logster[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net]))
15:37:05 [logster]
logster has joined #swhack
15:37:05 [asimov.openprojects.net]
topic is: Ehm, uh, well... I don't remember.
15:37:05 [asimov.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster deltab AaronSw
17:54:07 [logster]
logster has joined #swhack
17:54:07 [asimov.openprojects.net]
topic is: Ehm, uh, well... I don't remember.
17:54:07 [asimov.openprojects.net]
Users on #swhack: logster jrn deltab AaronSw
17:54:14 [AaronSw]
Oh, the trees are so beautiful this time of year. I just want to sit outside and watch them forever.
19:05:03 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
19:08:55 [sbp]
sbp has quit
19:09:05 [AaronSw]
hello; goodbye
19:14:15 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
19:17:40 [AaronSw]
wb
19:17:41 [sbp]
sbp has quit
19:17:45 [AaronSw]
bye, bye
19:18:47 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
19:26:46 [sbp]
Yo, Aaron, what chat client are you using? Does it work with older macs?
19:27:02 [AaronSw]
Yep -- Snak - www.snak.com
19:27:28 [sbp]
neat. I'm trying to find one for Stu
19:28:06 [AaronSw]
Ah, cool.
19:28:26 [AaronSw]
It's one of the better ones, for sure.
19:28:35 [sbp]
easy to install, etc.?
19:29:00 [AaronSw]
Yep -- Mac programs don't even have installers.
19:29:06 [AaronSw]
You just drag them to your hard drive.
19:29:18 [AaronSw]
And it walks you thru setting it up.
19:31:16 [sbp]
sbp has quit
19:39:39 [AaronSw]
Note to self: Success of DAML project points to flaws in W3C.
19:48:46 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
19:49:58 [AaronSw]
wb
19:50:15 [sbp]
ty
19:50:35 [AaronSw]
np
19:53:39 [AaronSw]
Weird... this again:
19:53:44 [AaronSw]
* Target left UnderNet. Failed to deliver: [...]
19:55:35 [sbp]
on your email? eek
19:56:27 [AaronSw]
Eh? No that was on my IRC!
19:56:40 [sbp]
weird
19:57:24 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw gets spam for an adult "forums/massage board"
20:04:55 [AaronSw]
(sic)
20:05:01 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw puts on "Abbey Road" side 2
20:05:10 [sbp]
heh: "side 2"
20:05:38 [AaronSw]
What? It's much better.
20:05:52 [sbp]
no, I mean that CDs don't have sides!
20:06:03 [AaronSw]
The record, stupid.
20:06:08 [AaronSw]
:-)
20:06:14 [sbp]
I know :-) Just seems weird
20:06:17 [AaronSw]
With the new record player.
20:07:50 [AaronSw]
I need to figure out how to use it... I'm still a newbie and keep buggering it all up.
20:09:41 [sbp]
lol! Stop scratching those records!
20:10:30 [AaronSw]
And then I forgot to switch it from 45 to 33... it was like "I don't remember this song being this fast!"
20:11:14 [AaronSw]
I like these plastic 45s much better! You can eat them and they still work!
20:11:33 [AaronSw]
Seriously, they have big bites taken out of the side.
20:13:22 [Morbus]
Morbus has joined #swhack
20:13:37 [AaronSw]
The way songs flow on Abbey Road is so beautiful.
20:13:39 [sbp]
lol
20:13:43 [AaronSw]
Hi Morbus
20:13:51 [sbp]
Abbey Road: absolutely
20:14:02 [Morbus]
hey there
20:14:07 [sbp]
well, it's the old music hall medly, isn't it?
20:14:16 [Morbus]
well, holy crap, the locate command finally works on 10.1
20:14:18 [AaronSw]
music hall medley?
20:14:23 [AaronSw]
You don't notice that flowage with MP3s or a CD.
20:14:28 [AaronSw]
locate works?!
20:14:35 [AaronSw]
woohoo!
20:14:39 [sbp]
yeah, sure. That's where Paul picked up his bass influence from
20:14:39 [Morbus]
it just did on my machine :)
20:14:43 [Morbus]
first time.
20:14:51 [Morbus]
never thought id' be so happy tohave a menial command work :)
20:14:54 [Morbus]
i use that damn thing all the time
20:15:10 [AaronSw]
me too! even when it doesn't work.
20:15:25 [Morbus]
hehe - yeah, just habit
20:15:38 [AaronSw]
i kept typing locate stuff and then it took me a few minutes each time to realize it was broken
20:15:45 [Morbus]
:)
20:15:47 [AaronSw]
of course it's practically useless on my machinesince all it brings up is cacher entries ;)
20:16:49 [Morbus]
dammit
20:17:00 [Morbus]
i'm tyrign to change a passphrase on an ssh key and it gives me a bus error
20:17:30 [AaronSw]
Yeah, i've been getting that with "open" a bit
20:18:07 [Morbus]
well, that's annoying. i have no clue how to use ssh-agent
20:19:13 [AaronSw]
Heh: """The Chart of the Flops exists to admire and celebrate the achievements of those musicians who have gone so deep into the realms of musical bizarritude that the rest of the universe can no longer see them. The first (and, to date, only) flop decade ran from 1991 to 2000."""
20:19:15 [AaronSw]
- http://www.worldofyak.com/flops/
20:23:57 [Morbus]
goddamit
20:24:58 [sbp]
* sbp has been debugging SWIPT.query
20:25:50 [sbp]
it's been doing some weird little things. there was like one simple bug, but when I fixed it, three others popped up... when I fixed each one of them, three others would pop up, and now there are hundreds of bugs
20:26:05 [Morbus]
so unfix that first bug and ship it
20:26:17 [sbp]
I already did that!
20:26:32 [Morbus]
and the other bugs are still there?
20:26:57 [sbp]
I have the old version, which is online, and the new better running but with hundreds of bugs version
20:28:11 [Morbus]
hey, aaaron, you know what tsch file i throw startup items in?
20:28:24 [AaronSw]
Nah, i don't use tcsh
20:28:27 [AaronSw]
bash, baby!
20:28:37 [Morbus]
yah, same here, i just haven't installed it.
20:28:49 [Morbus]
i know where to throw my environment but not startup
20:28:53 [AaronSw]
You haven't installed bash?
20:28:56 [Morbus]
nope
20:29:14 [AaronSw]
Do you have fink installed?
20:29:20 [Morbus]
nope
20:29:26 [AaronSw]
Oh, come on! Well get fink!
20:29:31 [AaronSw]
Right away
20:29:34 [Morbus]
hehehe... look you.
20:31:17 [Morbus]
dammit. this is annoying. i cna't change my passprhase, and i can't figure out ssh-agent.
20:34:12 [Morbus]
about 1000 downloads of amphetadesk shortly after the new version. not so bad
20:35:04 [AaronSw]
Cool.
20:35:13 [Morbus]
any new dev on peerkat?
20:35:43 [AaronSw]
Yeah, some -- we got a new developer who's fixed a bunch of stuff.
20:35:54 [sbp]
Hmm... for some reason, it's clearing self.qquads
20:36:09 [Morbus]
oh, good, good.
20:36:44 [AaronSw]
There's a posting on wmf.editthispage.com that explains how to use ssh-agent
20:36:48 [AaronSw]
it's really complicated
20:36:54 [Morbus]
yaeh, thats what i thought
20:37:00 [Morbus]
i'm just generating a new passkey. ;)
20:37:11 [AaronSw]
Oh, in case you forgot: Get fink now!
20:37:20 [AaronSw]
xfree86-rootless rocks!
20:37:39 [AaronSw]
All your favorite XWindows programs are back! :-)
20:38:06 [Morbus]
heh. i don't use the gui all that much on linux. cli on,ly
20:38:15 [Morbus]
i've heard of fink, but don't have much time to do much with it
20:38:28 [sbp]
weird: self.qquads shouldn't be modified!!!
20:39:28 [AaronSw]
you don't need to do anything with fink -- that's what's so great. you just type fink install bash and hit return.
20:39:37 [AaronSw]
and come back in an hour and it's installed.
20:39:48 [Morbus]
fink install lynx?
20:40:05 [AaronSw]
yep
20:40:05 [AaronSw]
and links
20:40:08 [AaronSw]
and lynx-ssl
20:40:08 [Morbus]
cool
20:40:28 [AaronSw]
and to install it it's like one command
20:42:16 [AaronSw]
fink install wget
20:45:52 [sbp]
ah, of course: I should have made a slice copy of "quad"! Aha!
20:46:02 [sbp]
and I think it works now... so much debugging data to clear up...
20:46:34 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit
20:46:38 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw wonders if he wants to start messing with query stuff
20:46:59 [sbp]
hooray, it's worked!!!
20:47:31 [AaronSw]
Cool!
20:47:33 [AaronSw]
How do you express queries?
20:48:05 [sbp]
this is the output I got:-
20:48:16 [sbp]
(well, a small part of it)
20:48:17 [sbp]
{
20:48:17 [sbp]
_:statement = _:s3 .
20:48:17 [sbp]
_:subject = <http://example.org/2001-07/myns#MyOtherPage> .
20:48:17 [sbp]
_:result = <http://example.org/2001-07/myns#H1Test> .
20:48:17 [sbp]
_:testdesc = "checking HTML4 dtd content model: header 1" .
20:48:19 [sbp]
_:bla = _:s0 .
20:48:21 [sbp]
_:repair = <http://w3.org/tr/html4#h1> .
20:48:23 [sbp]
_:date = "2001-03-18" .
20:48:25 [sbp]
} a rdfs:Resource .
20:49:05 [sbp]
this is so cool! It works really well now I fixed it
20:49:22 [AaronSw]
Why do you return it in a context?
20:49:25 [AaronSw]
That's awesome.
20:49:54 [sbp]
in a context: because the variables are in their own kinda context. Actually, the result is bogus: I need to fix it
20:50:02 [sbp]
it should use universals for a start
20:50:20 [sbp]
but that's all just output crud: the cool thing is that the engine works now
20:51:59 [AaronSw]
So how do you do query? just running thru triples to see if they match?
20:52:36 [sbp]
if only it were that simple!
20:52:50 [sbp]
you have two stores, one for the query quads, and one for the file quads
20:53:03 [sbp]
then you have a list of universal variables: with labels and value
20:53:26 [sbp]
scrape all of the universal variables out of the query quads, and set them all to an empty value (which later gets filled in)
20:53:56 [sbp]
then, for each quad in the query quads, gague which pattern of variables needs to be filled in, and go to the appropriate function
20:54:32 [sbp]
match each triple in the file quads store against the pattern, and if you find a term that matches a variable, checjk to see if it's still empty in the vars list
20:54:51 [sbp]
if so, put the value in there, and move the quad from the file store to a results store
20:55:18 [sbp]
do so until all of the query quads are satisfied, output, and run through until there's nothing left to match
20:55:38 [sbp]
that's the basic jist of it... there's a lot of weird hacking in between to glue it all together
20:55:47 [sbp]
a lot of conversion function to save space and so on
20:56:08 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reads several times to try and make sense of it
20:56:51 [AaronSw]
What if there are multiple matches?
20:56:53 [sbp]
I'll go through it again later if you want me to
20:56:59 [sbp]
for now, I have to run: Frasier!
20:57:01 [sbp]
sorry...
20:57:04 [sbp]
c'ya!
20:57:04 [AaronSw]
No, that's OK -- I think i've got it now.
20:57:05 [AaronSw]
thanks
20:57:07 [AaronSw]
c'ya
20:57:07 [sbp]
:-)
20:57:26 [AaronSw]
You should take the None copout way ;)
20:58:21 [AaronSw]
Hmm, you could build what you're doing out of None-queries -- just see what triples satisfy all queries, I think.
20:58:35 [AaronSw]
I'm not sure if that'd be faster/simpler.
21:00:08 [sbp]
sbp has quit
21:25:15 [Morbus]
Morbus has joined #swhack
21:25:41 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw browses http://fink.sf.net/
21:26:07 [Morbus]
aaron, you know much about cvs?
21:26:15 [AaronSw]
enough to use it
21:26:31 [Morbus]
know how to delete directories from the repository?
21:26:42 [AaronSw]
yeah, you use rm
21:26:49 [AaronSw]
On SourceForge?
21:26:52 [Morbus]
yeah...
21:26:54 [AaronSw]
you file a support ticket
21:26:55 [Morbus]
cvs rm?
21:26:59 [Morbus]
oh... heheh.
21:27:08 [Morbus]
so, well, can i shell into the host and remove that way?
21:27:42 [AaronSw]
No, I don't think you have access to the repository
21:28:15 [AaronSw]
you can try it, tho
21:44:13 [Morbus]
sigh. ah twell.
21:49:24 [AaronSw]
yeah, i had the same problem.
21:49:30 [AaronSw]
SF guys fixed it, tho
21:49:47 [AaronSw]
took them a couple days
21:52:14 [Morbus]
i just submitted a support request on it. no big deal.
21:52:19 [Morbus]
its just dirty. i ahte it :)
21:52:24 [Morbus]
did i tell you of mynewestproject?
21:53:01 [AaronSw]
no, whatisit?
21:55:00 [Morbus]
called syncasaurus. an open source version of bookmarksync.com (turning pay in nov 1st)
21:55:58 [AaronSw]
Will it export in RSS? ;)
21:56:03 [Morbus]
nope, xbel :)
21:56:28 [AaronSw]
Dan Connolly was asking for something just like this yesterday or so.
21:56:38 [Morbus]
although that could be a possibliity in the far future. i'm on a tight timeline to get it done by nov 1sxt.
21:56:42 [Morbus]
oh yeah?
21:56:46 [Morbus]
what was he asking for specificlaly?
21:57:00 [Morbus]
i've got a design doc uploaded in the cvs on project 'syncasaurus' on sf
21:57:43 [AaronSw]
<logger> 0) 2001-10-07 21:36:19 <DanC> I'm thinking of a javascript hack to post bookmarks to a server
21:57:43 [AaronSw]
<logger> 1) 2001-10-07 21:35:01 <danbri_> re bookmarks/history: there was a thread on the syndication list w.r.t. doing the same for other platforms, so RSS news clients knew which items had been visited. Morbus might know more.
21:57:43 [AaronSw]
<logger> 2) 2001-10-07 21:30:52 <DanC> anybody got a workable multi-browser bookmark approach?
21:57:43 [AaronSw]
<logger> 3) 2001-10-07 21:30:35 <DanC> argh... I know I bookmarked this one web site... but in which of the umpteen browsers I use?
21:59:41 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
22:00:33 [sbp]
[[[
22:00:33 [sbp]
20:57:26 <AaronSw> You should take the None copout way ;)
22:00:33 [sbp]
20:58:21 <AaronSw> Hmm, you could build what you're doing out of None-queries -- just see what triples satisfy all queries, I think.
22:00:33 [sbp]
20:58:35 <AaronSw> I'm not sure if that'd be faster/simpler.
22:00:34 [sbp]
]]]
22:00:46 [AaronSw]
probably simpler, though
22:00:52 [sbp]
I was going to do it that way, but I wasn't sure of the object semantics of it
22:00:54 [AaronSw]
you want me to explain, i bet
22:01:01 [sbp]
No, I know what you mean
22:01:08 [sbp]
use None instead of 'empty', yes?
22:01:31 [AaronSw]
Well, that's part of it.
22:01:53 [AaronSw]
The idea is to do store.query(None, 'http://foo.org', 'dc:title', None)
22:01:59 [AaronSw]
and get back all triples that match that pattern.
22:02:13 [sbp]
No, that doesn't work...
22:02:21 [AaronSw]
which is really easy to do -- just loop thru each triple in the db and spit it out if it matches.
22:02:55 [sbp]
because you have to have proper labels for the variables. (?x, blargh, blargh, ?y) is not the same as (?y, blargh, blargh, ?x)
22:03:21 [AaronSw]
well, it is for only that one case... but i see what you mean
22:03:53 [sbp]
the pattern of None-queries *is* the qay to do it, but you use that as a level above sorting the universal variables, if you see what I mean...
22:04:13 [AaronSw]
I would've thought it'd be one level below.
22:04:22 [sbp]
that's what quadmatch and dothetriple are for
22:04:31 [sbp]
above/below: depends upon how you look at it!
22:04:47 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I couldn't figure out what dothetriple was for... and the docstring didn't help ;)
22:06:05 [sbp]
:-)
22:06:19 [AaronSw]
I guess it'd be the None-style query with a few functors thrown in.
22:06:31 [sbp]
I wonder if I should spit out the query results in the same context as the variables matches?
22:06:46 [sbp]
None-style: yeah, that works on top of it... (or underneath!)
22:06:46 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw wonders what the difference is.
22:06:55 [sbp]
well, I can either do:-
22:06:56 [AaronSw]
(between query results and variable matches)
22:07:30 [sbp]
{ ?x = :a } ... . { ?x = :b } ... . :a :blargh :blargh . :b :blargh :blargh .
22:07:32 [sbp]
or:-
22:07:47 [sbp]
{ ?x = :a . :a :blargh :blargh } ... . { ?x = :b . :b :blargh :blargh } ... .
22:07:51 [AaronSw]
How do you deal with multiple matches?
22:07:53 [sbp]
or somesuch
22:08:14 [AaronSw]
Your query thing should have callbacks so other apps can use it.
22:08:24 [sbp]
how so?
22:08:40 [AaronSw]
store.query(None, 'foo','bar',None, callback)
22:08:47 [sbp]
it's iterative, so multiple matches are handled in that way
22:08:49 [AaronSw]
def callback(c,s,p,o):
22:08:55 [sbp]
what's callback for?
22:09:06 [AaronSw]
for other apps to do stuff with the results.
22:09:24 [AaronSw]
You send them matching triples
22:09:24 [sbp]
ah, neat
22:09:41 [AaronSw]
You should look at the redfoot stuff -- it's quite cool
22:09:46 [AaronSw]
i'm just spouting their ideas
22:09:57 [AaronSw]
(and poorly, at that!)
22:10:43 [sbp]
is it "good practice" to call a function from within itself?
22:10:51 [Morbus]
recursion?
22:10:54 [sbp]
yeah
22:10:59 [AaronSw]
Morbus took the word out of my mouth.
22:11:00 [Morbus]
that's used a lot in tree based parsers
22:11:05 [AaronSw]
And LISP ;)
22:11:08 [Morbus]
:)
22:11:12 [AaronSw]
Everyone loves recursion!
22:11:24 [Morbus]
Everyone loves Everyone loves Recursion!
22:11:26 [sbp]
well I use it in SWIPT.query to iterate through the matches
22:11:47 [AaronSw]
GNU's Not Unix 's Not Unix 's Not Unix
22:12:00 [Morbus]
YAYA!
22:12:01 [Morbus]
:)
22:12:05 [Morbus]
yet another yet another.
22:12:15 [Morbus]
i've always wanted to create a maya clone called that.
22:12:20 [AaronSw]
lol
22:12:24 [Morbus]
of course, i know negative infinity about graphics :)
22:12:42 [AaronSw]
you could call it yaya-yama
22:12:47 [Morbus]
hehehe
22:12:47 [sbp]
-oo
22:12:58 [Morbus]
shaka yaya.
22:13:02 [sbp]
yumi-yumi-yama
22:13:14 [Morbus]
well, you could kinda do that with ampheta.
22:13:23 [AaronSw]
yara?
22:13:29 [AaronSw]
yarc
22:13:31 [Morbus]
sorry, wrong window ;)
22:13:37 [sbp]
He he he
22:13:48 [sbp]
that's your universal answer, isn't it?
22:13:50 [AaronSw]
that lines works anywhere!
22:13:54 [AaronSw]
s/line/lines/
22:14:14 [sbp]
so, I'm writing a new program to sort out my sock drawer for me
22:14:15 [AaronSw]
"So, you want to go out for a drink?" "well, you could kinda do that with ampheta"
22:14:17 [sbp]
Morbus: well, you could kinda do that with ampheta.
22:14:26 [AaronSw]
Heh!
22:14:31 [Morbus]
jejejej/
22:14:31 [sbp]
mine was better
22:14:34 [Morbus]
shutup.
22:14:37 [Morbus]
:)
22:14:37 [sbp]
:-)
22:14:39 [AaronSw]
sbp, are your socks cataloged in RSS?
22:14:46 [sbp]
RSS my butt!
22:14:57 [Morbus]
i've still been meaning to add an xkitchensink parser to ampheta. never got around to it
22:14:57 [AaronSw]
It too! Wow!
22:15:06 [AaronSw]
Oh, that's too bad.
22:15:15 [sbp]
until you guys learn the difference between a Class and a Property, I'm not touching RSS with a barge pole
22:15:16 [AaronSw]
You could raise our implementation count up to -5
22:15:22 [Morbus]
yeah. it'd be like an easter egg - add a string to any url and presto!
22:15:26 [sbp]
lol
22:15:53 [sbp]
sbp has quit
22:16:06 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
22:16:07 [Morbus]
there's a rather stupid easter egg in there now.
22:16:09 [AaronSw]
* sbp heads off to catalog other body parts in RSS
22:16:18 [AaronSw]
ooh, ooh, what does it do?
22:16:22 [sbp]
oops, wrong button...
22:16:22 [Morbus]
after subscribing to more than 100 channels, check your log and you'll see amphetadesk do a drunken jig
22:16:24 [sbp]
lol
22:16:25 [Morbus]
it's really stupid ;)
22:16:57 [sbp]
lol, it can go drinking!!!
22:17:02 [Morbus]
heh\
22:17:08 [Morbus]
i'm tellin ya, amphetadesk can do that
22:17:19 [AaronSw]
it can do the jig?
22:17:19 [sbp]
heh:-
22:17:20 [sbp]
[[[
22:17:21 [sbp]
A union is a good solution. Excellent.
22:17:25 [sbp]
]]] - Len Bullard
22:17:32 [AaronSw]
I don't get it.
22:17:42 [sbp]
it's about as good a solution as using XML for XML Schema
22:18:05 [sbp]
someone suggested that some datatype should be able to use one base type or another
22:18:12 [sbp]
someone else suggested to use a union
22:18:19 [sbp]
Len replied "good solution"
22:18:37 [sbp]
considering that "OR" and "UNION" are one and the same, it doesn't make it much of a solution!
22:18:48 [AaronSw]
Heh.
22:18:56 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw greps AmphetaDesk for "drunken jig"
22:19:19 [AaronSw]
tsk, tsk, naught at http://amphetadesk.sourceforge.net/
22:19:45 [Morbus]
aarow, it only happens if you subscribe to more than 100 feeds.
22:19:54 [AaronSw]
Hmm, do I want mac/win or src version for OS X?
22:20:08 [sbp]
"EARL Python API - encourage semweb folks to get involved (SBP)" - http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2001/10/f2f-notes
22:20:13 [sbp]
I'm doing it, I'm doing it!
22:20:23 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw looks around, sees no signs of encouragement
22:20:28 [Morbus]
well, src, requires you install expat.
22:20:31 [AaronSw]
only socks.
22:20:36 [Morbus]
mac is a runtime so it runs under classic
22:20:41 [Morbus]
but requires you have a classic browser.
22:20:49 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw does locate expat ;)
22:21:04 [Morbus]
yeah, readme's are coming in this version. i'm actually working on that and a build doc right now :)
22:21:09 [AaronSw]
/usr/local/include/expat.h
22:21:09 [AaronSw]
/usr/local/lib/libexpat.a
22:21:09 [AaronSw]
/usr/local/lib/libexpat.la
22:21:12 [Morbus]
i had to install expat... ooOh.
22:21:17 [Morbus]
did you install it?
22:21:22 [Morbus]
i had to install mind under 10.0
22:21:23 [AaronSw]
Not that i can recall
22:21:28 [Morbus]
cool.
22:21:34 [Morbus]
ultimately, you just need some CPAN modules then.
22:21:50 [Morbus]
from what other people have told me, a def. redhat 6 machine needs: (flood)
22:21:55 [Morbus]
> libnet-1.0703
22:21:55 [Morbus]
> libwww-perl-5.53_94
22:21:55 [Morbus]
> HTML-Parser-3.25
22:21:55 [Morbus]
> HTML-Tagset-3.03
22:21:55 [Morbus]
> MIME-Base64-2.12
22:21:55 [Morbus]
> URI-1.12
22:21:57 [Morbus]
> XML-Parser.2.30
22:21:59 [Morbus]
> XML-Simple-1.05
22:22:04 [AaronSw]
Yeah, I have all those.
22:22:07 [Morbus]
version numbers aren't improtant.
22:22:13 [Morbus]
then it should be an unzip and ./amphetadesk.pl
22:22:17 [AaronSw]
i have them because I'm oh-so-cool.
22:22:21 [Morbus]
oh yes
22:22:23 [AaronSw]
:-)
22:22:26 [Morbus]
i can validate that ;)
22:22:42 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw calls techsupport
22:22:52 [AaronSw]
I typed ./AmphetaDesk.pl and it didn't do anything!!!
22:22:57 [AaronSw]
it's borken!!! fix it!!!
22:23:01 [AaronSw]
:-)
22:23:13 [Morbus]
heheh. oh god.
22:23:20 [AaronSw]
Whooo, look at those ^M
22:23:26 [Morbus]
hmm?
22:23:30 [AaronSw]
it looks like it got hit by a tornado
22:23:30 [Morbus]
oh, line feeds?
22:23:37 [AaronSw]
yeah, in your source code
22:23:41 [Morbus]
dammit.
22:23:45 [AaronSw]
2000-2001 Disobey #^M# http://www.disob
22:23:45 [AaronSw]
ey.com/amphetadesk/ #^M#########################################################
22:23:53 [Morbus]
yeah,
22:23:59 [sbp]
Aaron, can you give me a multiple matches use case, please?
22:24:03 [Morbus]
you may have to pepper them to unix feeds.
22:24:17 [Morbus]
that's odd though. i thought i converted before taring
22:25:00 [AaronSw]
sbp: :John :sibling :Sally , :Sue, :Bob .
22:25:01 [AaronSw]
:John :sibling ?x ?
22:25:07 [AaronSw]
Oooh, it's pretty in pepper.
22:25:21 [AaronSw]
$|++; # It's just fun to say. #
22:25:23 [AaronSw]
Heh
22:25:29 [Morbus]
heehhe
22:25:33 [Morbus]
stop looking at my code! <g>
22:25:36 [sbp]
* sbp runs that through SWIPT.query
22:25:57 [AaronSw]
Morbus-code is funny!
22:26:00 [Morbus]
lol
22:26:07 [Morbus]
i have to entertain myself, you know?
22:26:35 [Morbus]
whistle, whistle
22:26:35 [AaronSw]
So why doesn't it say anything when I run it?
22:26:40 [Morbus]
cos of the line feeds.
22:26:48 [Morbus]
if they're not unix, then it'll choke
22:26:58 [AaronSw]
Oh? Stupid Perl.
22:27:11 [deltab]
yeah, you have a long single-line comment
22:27:31 [Morbus]
do.. this,. i think:
22:27:45 [AaronSw]
i fixed it
22:27:47 [sbp]
woo! it worked
22:27:49 [AaronSw]
now to: cpan> install XML::Simple
22:27:49 [Morbus]
perl -i.old -e `s/\r/\n/g' [files]
22:27:52 [sbp]
{
22:27:52 [sbp]
_:x = <#Sally> .
22:27:52 [sbp]
} a rdfs:Resource .
22:27:52 [sbp]
{
22:27:52 [sbp]
_:x = <#Sue> .
22:27:52 [sbp]
} a rdfs:Resource .
22:27:54 [sbp]
{
22:27:56 [sbp]
_:x = <#Bob> .
22:27:58 [sbp]
} a rdfs:Resource .
22:28:00 [sbp]
<#John> <#sibling> <#Sally> .
22:28:02 [sbp]
<#John> <#sibling> <#Sue> .
22:28:04 [sbp]
<#John> <#sibling> <#Bob> .
22:28:12 [AaronSw]
They can all be siblings together! :-)
22:28:21 [deltab]
Morbus: -p too
22:28:36 [sbp]
* sbp fixes the output to make a bit more sense
22:28:40 [Morbus]
yeah, that's right. i have to 'pe'.
22:28:54 [Morbus]
and if i want backups, i 'pie' ;)
22:29:18 [sbp]
[[[
22:29:18 [sbp]
{
22:29:18 [sbp]
?x = <#Sally> .
22:29:18 [sbp]
} a rdfs:Resource .
22:29:19 [sbp]
]]]
22:29:44 [sbp]
Hmm... ":Result" might be better
22:30:00 [AaronSw]
Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today!
22:30:08 [AaronSw]
Yay!
22:30:25 [sbp]
* sbp smacks Aaron
22:30:36 [AaronSw]
It's all your fault!
22:30:40 [sbp]
:-)
22:30:48 [sbp]
I shouldn't have started you on lyrics!
22:30:59 [AaronSw]
Exactly.
22:31:41 [AaronSw]
Hmm, XML::Simple fails its test:
22:31:41 [AaronSw]
t/4_MemShare........Use of uninitialized value in string ne at t/4_MemShare.t line 33.
22:31:49 [Morbus]
?
22:31:52 [Morbus]
that's a new one.
22:31:57 [Morbus]
ignore it for now.
22:32:04 [Morbus]
i dont' remember getting that on my machine
22:32:08 [Morbus]
but i installed before 10.1
22:32:21 [AaronSw]
excuses excuses
22:32:31 [AaronSw]
xena, excuse
22:32:31 [Morbus]
hey, its not my module, bitchazz ;)
22:32:33 [AaronSw]
<xena> AaronSw, jupiter is aligned with mars.
22:32:51 [Morbus]
xena, lesbian?
22:33:06 [AaronSw]
Command not understood.
22:33:44 [sbp]
xena, AaronSw
22:33:51 [AaronSw]
Command not understood.
22:33:54 [sbp]
aw...
22:34:07 [Morbus]
xena, understand command 'aaronsw'
22:34:14 [AaronSw]
Command understood.
22:34:35 [AaronSw]
Morbus, wtf is this? Cannot install Mac::InternetConfig, don't know what it is.
22:35:06 [Morbus]
when you'd get that?
22:35:45 [Morbus]
that's a classic only module
22:35:46 [AaronSw]
when i tried to install it from cpan -- you forgot to comment out the mac-only stuff
22:36:06 [Morbus]
no, the mac only stuff only comes into play under Classic.
22:36:20 [AaronSw]
well comment it out then!
22:36:34 [Morbus]
it doesn't matter... wait.
22:36:46 [Morbus]
on the first few lines of amphetadesk.pl, the use Mac::InternetConfig is uncommented?
22:36:59 [AaronSw]
Yes. Would you like me to write it on a card and mail it to you?
22:37:07 [Morbus]
other than that, the os libraries are determined at run time.
22:37:08 [Morbus]
sigh.
22:37:17 [Morbus]
yeah, comment those three lines (if they're not already)
22:37:29 [sbp]
* sbp wonders if qqcopy = self.queryquad[:] is necessary
22:37:30 [AaronSw]
tada! it works!
22:37:35 [Morbus]
i'm surprised i missed that.
22:37:38 [Morbus]
damn
22:37:41 [Morbus]
sorry abotu that
22:38:02 [AaronSw]
no problem -- i just like making fun of you.
22:38:03 [AaronSw]
it
22:38:09 [AaronSw]
it's surprisingly polished
22:38:10 [Morbus]
yeah, i know.
22:38:15 [Morbus]
oh sure, now try to suck up <g>
22:38:26 [Morbus]
Morbus has left #swhack
22:38:32 [AaronSw]
ouch
22:38:36 [Morbus]
Morbus has joined #swhack
22:38:36 [AaronSw]
Aha:
22:38:38 [sbp]
Hmm... it doesn't seem to be
22:38:40 [AaronSw]
&note("There was a total of $count subscribed channels.");
22:38:40 [AaronSw]
&note("We dance a drunken jig of epic proportions! <shake> <jiggle> <keRAASH!>...") if $count > 100;
22:38:46 [deltab]
sbp: if you want a copy to modify without affecting the original, yes
22:38:50 [Morbus]
hehehe... dammit.
22:38:53 [Morbus]
stop that :)
22:39:27 [sbp]
deltab: yeah, I already figured that out because it was the previous bug! the new thing I'm wondering is if changing the self.queryquad is O.K.
22:39:40 [sbp]
in this particular program...
22:40:18 [sbp]
it seems to work just fine without it, but I'm not sure
22:40:58 [sbp]
ah, no, that is fine
22:41:01 [sbp]
* sbp whips the lines out
22:41:35 [sbp]
I reset the variable soon after anyway! So it doesn't matter
22:42:26 [sbp]
Well, I'm quite impressed with this. Now, I just need to turn it into bloatware, adding a thousand functions that don't work
22:42:44 [AaronSw]
Morbus, you nead a "check all" button on the add a channel page ;)
22:43:00 [Morbus]
ack!
22:43:09 [Morbus]
some other bastard asked for that.
22:43:17 [Morbus]
modify the template yourself if you want it binky ;)
22:43:30 [sbp]
heh:-
22:43:31 [Morbus]
templates/add_a_channel.html
22:43:31 [sbp]
[[[
22:43:32 [sbp]
It looks best with 6.0 and higher browsers, looks OK on 5.x browsers, but is
22:43:32 [sbp]
still readable on 3.x and 4.x browsers (though none of the fancy layout is
22:43:32 [sbp]
visible on these crappy contraptions).
22:43:33 [sbp]
]]]
22:43:51 [sbp]
- Peter K. Sheerin, on w-v
22:44:52 [sbp]
I've got to put constraints into it now to impress Libby...
22:45:10 [AaronSw]
contrainsts?
22:45:54 [sbp]
yeah, <, > and so on
22:46:08 [sbp]
and I should support loading multiple documents (actually, I already do)
22:46:13 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be coming back momentarily, with some splits. Thanks for your patience.
22:46:20 [AaronSw]
Morbus, what good is this template? all the good stuff is produced by the code
22:46:27 [sbp]
ooh, loading off of the Web into SWIPT would be cool too
22:46:38 [deltab]
deltab has quit
22:46:38 [Morbus]
Morbus has quit
22:46:38 [sbp]
sbp has quit
22:46:38 [jrn]
jrn has quit
22:46:38 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has quit
22:47:01 [deltab]
deltab has joined #swhack
22:47:01 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has joined #swhack
22:47:01 [jrn]
jrn has joined #swhack
22:47:01 [sbp]
sbp has joined #swhack
22:47:01 [Morbus]
Morbus has joined #swhack
22:47:05 [Morbus]
sorry, channel_list_item.html
22:47:11 [sbp]
<Morbus> hmm? the checkbox stuff is controlled by channel_item.html
22:47:18 [Morbus]
sorry, channel_list_item.html
22:47:41 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today! Hey!
22:47:48 [Morbus]
after 1.0 the template system will get an overhaul to make it more fanciful, but this one works pretty well so far.
22:47:52 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has changed the topic to: Sally is a Resouce, do da do da hey! Sally is a Resouce, a Resource for today! Hey!
22:48:00 [Morbus]
you can find more information about changing the templates in docs/skinning.htm
22:48:45 [AaronSw]
lo?
22:48:49 [Morbus]
hey
22:48:53 [sbp]
wow, I think that NTriples with universally quantified variables is as good as Guha's RDFDB [http://web1.guha.com/rdfdb/query.html], and queries just as well on SWIPT.query
22:48:55 [Morbus]
did you get any of my messages?
22:48:59 [jrn]
jrn has quit
22:49:02 [AaronSw]
lo?
22:49:08 [sbp]
lo?
22:49:13 [Morbus]
hi?
22:49:17 [sbp]
sweet-'n'?
22:49:20 [Morbus]
sugah?
22:49:27 [Morbus]
cat-n-?
22:50:43 [AaronSw]
whoa, that was weird
22:50:50 [Morbus]
hmm?
22:50:52 [sbp]
did anyone know that the common colloquial form of "bugger!" in some English dialects is "boogah!"?
22:51:20 [deltab]
yes
22:51:33 [AaronSw]
lol
22:52:03 [AaronSw]
All the IRC messages qued up and delivered at once a minute ago
22:52:23 [AaronSw]
Why did Ampheta change ports on me?
22:52:40 [Morbus]
for some odd reason, the other port didn't shut down correctly.
22:52:48 [Morbus]
it tries one of three ports before giving up.,
22:52:53 [AaronSw]
Am I not supposed to hit Ctrl-C?
22:52:55 [Morbus]
those are defined in /data/mySettings.xml
22:53:04 [Morbus]
well, you can, but it doesn't work nicely on linux yet ;)
22:53:08 [Morbus]
interuppts are on the todo. i've been lazy
22:54:18 [AaronSw]
Frank Manola: """Anyone who can say (on the SUO list) "A little brisk canter through the foothills of Birkhoff and McLain might be good mental exercise" has GOT to be a reasonable man! [Particularly since most of the SUO group seem to be taking a brisk canter through Roberts' Rules of Order!]"""
22:54:36 [AaronSw]
LOL, and then Pat Hayes sings an Irish folk song!
22:54:41 [AaronSw]
"The Golden Triple (trad.)"
22:55:04 [AaronSw]
LOL! This is hilarious!
22:56:22 [AaronSw]
lo?
22:56:32 [Morbus]
what?
22:56:38 [Morbus]
goddamit, must you crave attention so much!
22:56:44 [Morbus]
yes, aaron, that's a great link!
22:56:45 [AaronSw]
Heh!
22:56:47 [sbp]
pointer? URI?
22:56:49 [Morbus]
we love you aaron, here are some flowers!
22:56:50 [Morbus]
<g>
22:56:56 [AaronSw]
LOL
22:57:04 [AaronSw]
Just wondered if my connection had died again.
22:57:08 [sbp]
ah, I've found it
22:57:19 [AaronSw]
We must sing that on Friday's telecon.
22:57:29 [sbp]
lol:-
22:57:31 [sbp]
[[[
22:57:31 [sbp]
First its subject, then its object
22:57:31 [sbp]
Over a fire of amber coals:
22:57:31 [sbp]
in all my life I ne'er did see
22:57:31 [sbp]
such a graph so neat about the nodes.
22:57:32 [sbp]
]]]
22:58:08 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw thinks AmphetaDesk should be renamed Morbo-Desko
22:58:15 [sbp]
that's absolutely brilliant!
22:58:16 [Morbus]
hehe. i'd get sued.
22:58:27 [Morbus]
morbo is the name of the alien reporter in futurerama
22:58:38 [AaronSw]
oh, right
22:58:42 [sbp]
What's the blone woman's name?
22:58:43 [Morbus]
i think peerkat should be renamed to piddlekat
22:58:43 [AaronSw]
Morby-Desky?
22:58:48 [AaronSw]
piddlekat?
22:58:56 [sbp]
heh, piddlekat
22:58:57 [Morbus]
yeah, and the icon could be a drunken cat piddling everywhere.
22:59:02 [Morbus]
would give you much more character :)
22:59:05 [AaronSw]
Heh!
22:59:13 [AaronSw]
I will suggest this to our dev team.
22:59:19 [Morbus]
hehehe. good! :)
22:59:25 [Morbus]
keep me informed of your status :)
23:00:06 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw sends
23:00:17 [Morbus]
ooh, is there a ml archive i can see it?
23:00:26 [AaronSw]
No, I'm not that stupid.
23:00:31 [Morbus]
heheh
23:00:39 [AaronSw]
Hmm....
23:00:39 [AaronSw]
Downloading 4arrownewesteservice.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:00:41 [AaronSw]
The socket read operation timed out after 10 seconds.
23:00:41 [AaronSw]
Downloading 4arrownewestarticles.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:00:41 [AaronSw]
The socket read operation timed out after 10 seconds.
23:00:41 [AaronSw]
Downloading 0ri0nteamvenezuela.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:00:42 [AaronSw]
Downloading 403bannuitiesbenefit.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:00:44 [AaronSw]
Broken pipe
23:01:07 [Morbus]
anything in /data/internal/AmphetaDesk.log?
23:01:51 [AaronSw]
[18:00:25] Writing a new myChannels.opml.
23:01:51 [AaronSw]
Use of uninitialized value at lib/Channels.pl line 1233
23:01:51 [AaronSw]
[18:00:25] Loading services-channels-recent.xml from /Users/aaronsw/tmp/amphetad
23:01:51 [AaronSw]
esk-src-v0.92/data/lists/services-channels-recent.xml.
23:01:52 [AaronSw]
[18:00:25] There was a total of 1646 subscribable channels.
23:02:06 [Morbus]
oh, there's your problem.
23:02:24 [Morbus]
you've installed AmphetaDesk in a /tmp/ directory. it doesn't like that. it wantss a permament place on your hd. :)
23:02:31 [AaronSw]
pfft
23:02:40 [Morbus]
kidding. sheesh
23:02:49 [AaronSw]
Yeah, i noticed.
23:03:14 [AaronSw]
Hmm, next Jewish Holiday starts in 15 minutes.
23:03:26 [Morbus]
you got that broken pipe when you were downloading channels though, right?
23:03:33 [Morbus]
i've never seen that error before in ampheta
23:03:36 [AaronSw]
I assume so.
23:03:53 [Morbus]
hmm. can you duplicate it?
23:04:01 [AaronSw]
lemme try
23:07:17 [AaronSw]
Morbus, you submit all your feeds to syndic8?
23:07:22 [sbp]
another holiday???
23:07:31 [sbp]
Which one now?
23:07:46 [AaronSw]
Shemini Atzeret and Simchas Torah -- this is the last of the holiday season.
23:07:47 [Morbus]
nope. i'm waiting til 1200 of those to-be-reviewed feeds are widdled down, then grabbing the ocs and doing a diff.
23:08:02 [AaronSw]
We won't have a nother holiday for a good while, now.
23:08:09 [deltab]
"you mean "whittled"?
23:08:23 [Morbus]
correct.
23:08:26 [AaronSw]
Why wait? Give those reviewers something to do! ;-)
23:08:43 [Morbus]
quite frankly, i don't have time.
23:08:49 [AaronSw]
Heh.
23:08:53 [sbp]
[[[
23:08:54 [sbp]
In Israel Shemini Atzeret ("The Eighth Day") & Simchas Torah ("Rejoicing over the Torah") are celebrated as one day in accordance with the Torah directive (Leviticus 23:26).
23:08:59 [sbp]
]]] - http://www.jewishpath.org/rroctober2000.html
23:09:01 [Morbus]
i tried to review some today, but i can't find the magic "this feed is ok" button
23:09:06 [AaronSw]
Do I look like I'm in Israel?
23:09:20 [sbp]
You celebrate them as two days?
23:09:26 [sbp]
Seems more sensible that way :-)
23:09:30 [AaronSw]
Morbus, it's not supposed to be on the site until tonight.
23:09:37 [sbp]
Homer: President's Day my butt!
23:09:40 [AaronSw]
Yes, it's two days -- all the holidays here are one day longer than in Israel.
23:09:44 [Morbus]
oh.
23:09:49 [Morbus]
oh yeah, shit, movabletype is out today too
23:09:53 [Morbus]
i gotta go check that out
23:10:00 [AaronSw]
movabletype?
23:10:03 [Morbus]
.org
23:10:12 [Morbus]
its a greymatter/blogger/cms sort of thing
23:10:17 [AaronSw]
Response from the dev team on your suggestion: Lovely.
23:10:21 [Morbus]
hehehe
23:10:22 [sbp]
Homer: There's some neat stuff on the front
23:10:23 [Morbus]
so, it's in? <g>
23:10:39 [AaronSw]
No, you're banned from ever using Peerkat.
23:10:42 [AaronSw]
;)
23:10:47 [Morbus]
LOL...
23:11:47 [sbp]
you mean piddlekat, right?
23:11:59 [AaronSw]
I typed that but quickly backspaced ;)
23:12:40 [sbp]
^h^h^h^h^h^h...
23:12:57 [AaronSw]
It's a capital H, BTW
23:13:10 [sbp]
Piddle^H^H^H^H^H^HPeerkat
23:14:04 [AaronSw]
Heh. Pat Hayes: "Graham, on another topic altogether, I think Ive managed to shut up that noisy fellow Ray on rdf-comment."
23:14:19 [Morbus]
aaron, did you look over the syncasaurus design dc at all?
23:14:39 [AaronSw]
I saw that it was written in HTML... :)
23:14:41 [AaronSw]
Poor Ray, none of those ivory tower W3Cers like him.
23:15:06 [sbp]
Ray?
23:15:18 [AaronSw]
Arjun Ray
23:15:21 [sbp]
Ah!
23:15:53 [Morbus]
goddamit. i hate when code isn't commented
23:16:14 [Morbus]
movabletype.org looks good, but the code is header info stuff only
23:16:20 [AaronSw]
Morbus, after a quick skim looks OK
23:16:30 [AaronSw]
Just need to s/FTP/HTTP/ ;)
23:16:40 [AaronSw]
and s/XBEL/RSS/
23:16:40 [Morbus]
heheh...
23:17:04 [Morbus]
well,its been set to allow that expansion.
23:17:13 [Morbus]
Transport/HTTP.pm and Bookmarks/RSS.pm
23:17:16 [Morbus]
so maybe someday in the future ;)
23:17:27 [AaronSw]
Yep.
23:17:39 [Morbus]
i hate these filipping .DS_Store thigns
23:17:46 [AaronSw]
If it was in Python, it'd be sooner rather than later. ;-)
23:18:01 [Morbus]
hey, if you build it into a runtime on mac/win by nov 1st, i'll use it :)
23:18:13 [AaronSw]
It'd probably be much easier.
23:18:20 [Morbus]
so get to work.
23:18:24 [Morbus]
there's the design doc.
23:18:25 [AaronSw]
I hit the broken pipe again.
23:18:25 [Morbus]
:)
23:18:30 [Morbus]
same place?
23:18:35 [Morbus]
was it on the same feed?
23:18:37 [AaronSw]
Nah, different one.
23:18:44 [AaronSw]
Nah, different one.
23:18:50 [AaronSw]
OK, have to sign off... holiday is starting.
23:18:58 [Morbus]
ciao
23:19:12 [sbp]
c'ya
23:19:14 [AaronSw]
Downloading bblogbusinessintelli.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:19:14 [AaronSw]
The socket read operation timed out after 10 seconds.
23:19:14 [AaronSw]
Downloading britlinksnews.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:19:14 [AaronSw]
Downloading bbcnewsbusiness.xml - local copy doesn't exist.
23:19:14 [AaronSw]
Broken pipe
23:19:16 [AaronSw]
c'ya all
23:19:21 [sbp]
have a nice holiday
23:19:35 [AaronSw]
thanks, you guys have fun
23:19:40 [deltab]
when you come back, fix your mail client's password
23:19:46 [AaronSw]
what do you mean?
23:19:46 [deltab]
bye
23:19:54 [AaronSw]
what's wrong with the password?
23:20:00 [deltab]
it keeps trying to log in with the wrong pass
23:20:11 [AaronSw]
really? seems to get mail just fine.
23:20:23 [Morbus]
maybe you have two accts set up ;)
23:22:42 [AaronSw]
ok, see you all
23:22:47 [AaronSw]
bye
23:23:50 [sbp]
sbp has quit
23:28:34 [Morbus]
deltab, you feel like looking at a design doc for me?
23:29:58 [deltab]
yes
23:30:08 [deltab]
maybe not right now though
23:30:50 [Morbus]
lemme know whenever.