00:08:07 logster has joined #swhack 00:08:07 Users on #swhack: logster AaronSw tav deltab 00:29:45 Grr, why isn't google indexing the swhack logs? 00:29:58 * AaronSw resubmits. 00:36:25 sbp has joined #swhack 00:36:28 Hi sean. 00:36:35 Nice letter to the Patent Policy comments. 00:36:47 Hi there, Aaron "Funk Maestro of the Mid-West" Swartz 00:36:51 thanks 00:36:56 I liked it too :-) 00:37:04 heh: Funk Maestro of the Mid-West? 00:37:15 I've been saving that for days now 00:37:24 (the "Funk Maestro" quip) 00:37:39 Where 00:37:43 Where'd that come from? 00:38:13 I just thought of it during The Simpsons for some reason; perhaps it was related to something in the episode? 00:38:47 Heh: 00:38:57 > But when corporations own all of the avenues of free speech 00:38:57 Do you expect to be leasing your tongue some time soon? 00:39:12 heh; where's that from? 00:39:15 Anyway, I've been busy: http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swipt/ 00:39:21 cite: http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5906 00:40:02 Ooh, a query engine? 00:40:09 Hmm... "Ammendment" :-) 00:40:19 Not only that, but a *working* quesry engine :-) 00:40:34 and a query engine, too 00:41:01 Oooh. 00:41:18 python query.py earl.n3 earlq.n3 > out.n3 00:41:34 CooL! 00:42:08 I've no idea how it works. Spent all day writing it 00:42:52 You have no idea how it works...hmm. 00:43:09 When I was debugging it, I set something wrong, and it gave me an 8MB+ output file! 00:43:18 lol 00:43:24 Query engines are hard to control. 00:43:28 I have a vague idea how it works :-) I was just joking at the oddness of the thing 00:43:41 Heheheh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2001101218506.gif 00:43:48 hard to control: yeah, if they go wrong, they go wrong. It only takes one line in the wrong place 00:44:13 heh heh 00:44:29 Hmm, 404 at http://www.dpawson.co.uk/WAI/waiframework.html 00:45:03 SWIPT: Now you'll just need to modify it to work with my super-cool RDF API. 00:45:03 I think there's a bug in http://infomesh.net/2001/10/swipt/util.txt in the escape function 00:45:18 \ should be replaced first 00:45:32 moved to: http://www.dpawson.co.uk/WAI/WAIFramework.html 00:45:35 Heh, yes, escaping bacslash last is really dumb. 00:45:46 super cool API: where, where??? 00:46:05 escaping backslash last: actually, I just copied the escaping function from one of your classes 00:46:17 thanks for pointing it out, deltab :-) 00:46:34 From deltab's class? 00:46:46 no, you! 00:46:56 oops 00:47:09 literal = string.replace(literal, '\\t', '\t') 00:47:09 literal = string.replace(literal, '\\"', '"') 00:47:09 literal = string.replace(literal, '\\n', '\n') 00:47:09 literal = string.replace(literal, '\\r', '\r') 00:47:09 literal = string.replace(literal, '\\\\', '\\') 00:47:14 Hmm, I'm not done with the API yet.. should I upload what I have. 00:47:21 sure, what domain name? 00:47:49 so it'll send the mail back to my server when it comes back up? 00:47:57 yes 00:47:58 - http://infomesh.net/2001/swipt/swipt.txt 1.6 00:48:00 cool 00:48:08 upload: yes please 00:48:26 you might want to consider using ntriples.py in SWIPT: it's really good, IMO 00:48:44 deltab: 00:48:44 swartzfam.com 00:48:44 aaronsw.com 00:48:44 theinfo.org 00:48:44 blogspace.com 00:48:46 logicerror.com 00:50:00 * AaronSw uploads... 00:50:49 Uploaded: http://blogspace.com/rdf/rdfapi.txt 00:50:54 AaronSw: okay, done 00:51:05 thanks! what server do you use? 00:51:22 err, what MTA, and what's its address? 00:51:34 cool 00:51:36 209.164.24.133 00:52:52 no 00:53:09 or else :-) 00:53:20 heheh 00:53:49 What port is SMTP again? 00:54:10 smtp 25/tcp Simple Mail Transfer 00:54:16 thanks 00:54:22 25... i was close ;) 00:55:06 Hmm, I didn't know Qmail could do that. How do you set that up? 00:55:31 put the domain names into /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts 00:55:38 that's it 00:55:53 Ah, that makes sense. 00:56:10 of course on the DNS side you still have to set up MX records 00:56:25 right... just about to do that. 00:56:37 should I set up aliases for them? or do you have those set up already? 00:56:47 like mail-bak.swartzfam.com 00:57:05 doesn't matter in the slightest 00:57:42 Unless you change the address ;) 00:57:56 that's not going to happen :-) 00:58:28 ever? in the history of time? 00:58:44 or the future, i suppose 00:58:48 heh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20010930.html 00:59:22 Many thanks for your help, deltab. 01:01:09 I suggest you put the aliases for your mail servers within the domains they're for, so that your dns server can send authoritive glue 01:01:41 Wouldn't that require 10 aliases? 01:02:42 yes - does your editor have search and replace? :-) 01:03:53 yeah, but my dns is edited thru a web interface. :( 01:04:05 * AaronSw tries the "Wizard Interface" 01:04:23 Oh, for newbies, not wizards 01:04:28 * AaronSw tries the "Advanced Interface" 01:05:00 lol 01:06:13 005308Z anyway, do we need a web dns tool? 01:06:34 AaronSw: I'll take that as a No vote :-) 01:06:55 For what purpose would you want one? 01:07:05 I wouldn't mind if it just gave me the config file to edit thru a browser 01:07:12 impressing your collegues 01:07:12 but it tries to be "helpful", grr. 01:16:50 sbp, comments on that rdf API? 01:17:38 I'm not sure what it does yet. Your method of programming is far more advanced than my own 01:17:49 Really? What don't you get? 01:18:22 self.neighbors = [MAIN_NODE] 01:18:36 Yeah, that didn't quite work out as I wanted. 01:18:50 I wanted to have all of them "inherit" from the MAIN_NODE 01:18:57 so they'd know basic RDFS triples, etc. 01:19:06 what's the MAIN_NODE? 01:19:22 It's a Node with basic properties like 01:19:33 self[rdf:type] = rdfs:resource 01:19:43 ah, neat 01:21:17 same thing with MAIN_STORE 01:21:26 I really need environmental acquisition, I think. 01:21:31 which is a Zope thing. 01:21:38 * sbp is lost again 01:21:50 yeah, that was to deltab 01:21:54 or tav 01:22:06 I can just about handle SWIPT... it works, and that'll do for me :-) 01:22:15 The basic idea is to merge two nodes, you create a new node with the original two as neighbors 01:22:23 and if you want to unmerge them... just do the opposite 01:22:45 please, please, document this! 01:23:00 yeah, i need to get a chance to work on it! 01:23:03 so much to do... 01:23:18 ask more questions so i know what to document 01:23:39 what does __getitem__ do? 01:23:41 is that like unification in prolog? 01:24:00 unification? dunno... what's it do? 01:24:01 sbp: the [ ] operator 01:24:16 shucks, I was hoping you could tell me 01:24:23 yeah, __getitem__ replaces the [ ] operator, along with __setitem__ 01:24:34 well, not replaces... more like drives 01:24:46 ah, there's an entry in foldoc 01:25:15 will it be able to take on varied internal RDF store structures: pents, quads, all of different forms? 01:26:09 no, just the ideal structure ;) 01:26:18 actually, I guess you could swap in a different store 01:26:20 which is? 01:26:43 well, we're still arguing about it I think... but I like quads with stIDs 01:27:44 I like quads with contexts. 'tis what I use in SWIPT now 01:28:52 Hmm. 01:28:57 Seth uses pents with contexts (well, he calls them StIDs I think, but they're contexts... I get muddled up with the terminology), and seqs 01:29:17 Yeah, the seqs are weird. 01:29:35 yeah; but it's for doing easy DAML lists, I guess 01:31:07 So you disagree with my thoughts on contexts? 01:33:29 what are your thoughts on contexts? That they should be resigned to the model? Yes, I do. A context is scope for the quantification of variables, so it's useful to have it as a first class object 01:34:30 They are... they're just not in the model ;) 01:34:35 So should quantifiers be in the model too then? 01:34:41 aha: http://robustai.net/mentography/SemStructure.gif 01:35:04 quantifiers in the model: what do you mean? 01:35:33 _:x vs. {} forSome :x . 01:36:45 well, it's there anyway! having _:x is alright, and so is ?x 01:37:19 but there's probably no harm in using both. People can still do it anyway; modelling triples in RDF using weird methods 01:37:21 But which way should it be represented internally? 01:37:49 Node = ('fooooo', ExistentialNode, context) 01:37:59 I use [x, ANON] or [x, VAR] 01:38:16 hwo do you deal with quantification? 01:39:10 whaddya mean? 01:40:32 Like, how do you know what x is quantiified over? what context? 01:43:04 *the* context. (P, S, O, C) 01:43:35 hmm 01:43:39 Am i still on? 01:43:59 wow: http://robustai.net/mentography/quads.gif 01:44:50 still on what? 01:45:13 here... messing with net connection 01:45:37 ah, yes you are 01:46:15 ah, now Seth may have already solved our dispute 01:46:15 http://robustai.net/mentography/pentuples.gif 01:47:24 he proved quite convincingly to me once that his notion of "StID" covers both your statementID and my contextID things 01:48:49 Hmm... how does one say that something belongs to two contexts? 01:48:57 just repeat it? 01:49:02 Can it? 01:49:11 Seth seems to imply so: http://robustai.net/mentography/contexts.gif 01:49:50 heh, Seth and his ways: http://robustai.net/mentography/higherOrder.gif 01:50:11 So how does the stID work for contexts? 01:50:54 it works as a context flag: exactly the same 01:51:09 if two triples have the same StID, they are in the same context 01:51:11 http://robustai.net/mentography/reification.gif 01:51:16 eek, but you need stIDs! 01:51:49 yeah, I don't get it either 01:52:01 but Seth worked on this for months. PErhaps we should ask him 01:53:23 hmm, ok 01:53:50 I'd have been happy with triples :-) 01:54:55 heh 01:56:53 So should I write this up in an email or somehting? 01:57:03 please do 01:57:21 And send it to where? sem-dev? 01:57:33 yeah, that'll do 01:59:08 Hmm... 01:59:16 I guess having both can't be too bad. 01:59:22 And it'd make us compatible. 02:00:06 there's no way that SWIPT would be compatable with your master RDF API, 'cause I'm a crap programmer. Just do what you think is best 02:00:27 Heh. 02:01:40 Gotta run 02:01:42 sbp has quit 02:08:52 Self-updating software has to be a tech-support nightmare. 02:13:43 That danja... I'm now reading "Ode on a Grecian Urn" as "Ode on a Grecian URN"! 02:29:06 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after some splitting. Please bear with us. 02:31:09 ChanServ has changed the topic to: 02:31:17 [GlobalNotice] Done. Thanks for your patience. 02:31:58 AaronSw has changed the topic to: Keats: "Ode to a Grecian URN" 02:32:18 AaronSw has changed the topic to: How do I "do the triple"? Do the triple! Do do do do do do do do do, do do do do do do ... 02:44:37 What in the world is Banzai, deltab? 02:44:57 a crazy, crazy show 02:46:26 Lol... "Strapped for cash they decided there was only one option left for them.... To sell the Banzai format to a UK TV producer." 02:50:53 Nope, we don't get Banzai here. 13:31:29 sbp has joined #swhack 13:31:49 Heh: Do the triple! 13:43:47 sbp has quit 13:47:37 sbp has joined #swhack 13:56:35 sbp has quit 13:57:52 sbp has joined #swhack 14:29:54 sbp has quit 14:46:40 la la la la la la la la la la la 15:12:42 Arjun Ray, commenting on the RDF MT: "Is this list the official place to be ignored?" 15:14:10 Also: """I would claim, on the basis of my "gestalt" of RDF, that a ntriple should be a node itself. The "basic" RDF graph representation would have four nodes, for the triple and its three terms; the arcs would be labelled by "subject", "verb" and "object" - or their equivalents du jour; anonymous nodes would just be missing outbound subject arcs; 15:14:13 nodes with only inbound arcs would be the natural places to locate all atomic/primitive terms (literals, urirefs, symbols, whatever); and "reification" would seem to be unnecessary. What this means for Model Theory I haven't the faintest idea.""" 15:14:23 He's got the right idea there, for sure! 15:39:55 Hmm, My TiBook did that "gone silent" thing again -- for some reason "esd -nobeeps" was running. Killed it and it started working again. 15:40:07 Or maybe it was just because I restarted QuickTime Player. 15:40:24 It was quite weird because if you got it to system beep, you could here the audio playing behind it. 15:44:03 "Queen says no to pot smoking FBI movement"? 15:44:51 sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy! 16:26:21 sbp has joined #swhack 16:26:28 'lo 16:26:49 'i 16:27:08 I just BCC'd you a message... 16:27:29 but it didn't get to you: error 16:27:39 [[[ 16:27:40 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mewtwo.esp-worldwide.com. 16:27:40 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. 16:27:40 This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. 16:27:40 : 16:27:40 Sorry. Although I'm listed as a best-preference MX or A for that host, 16:27:42 it isn't in my control/locals file, so I don't treat it as local. (#5.4.6) 16:27:44 ]]] 16:27:55 what the? shoooot 16:28:30 hmm 16:28:53 odd, it seems to get thru when i do it. 16:30:14 hmm, perhaps not 16:30:30 that's funny, I just got another one, same error, but with a weird message body 16:30:38 Yeah, that was me. 16:30:42 blargh 16:30:53 Wgt does it think it's a best preference MX? 16:30:58 ;; ANSWER SECTION: 16:30:58 swartzfam.com. 8h33m9s IN MX 10 mail.swartzfam.com. 16:30:58 swartzfam.com. 8h33m9s IN MX 5 mail-bak.swartzfam.com. 16:31:09 because it is 16:31:12 because it's got dns @swartzfam? 16:31:22 5 outranks 10 16:31:32 oh, you serious? ooops 16:31:56 why doesn't it do that for other domains, tho? 16:38:29 I wonder why swintro isn't on Google anymore? It was, briefly 16:38:43 google's acting funny these days 16:38:52 yeah, sure is 16:38:58 Sean, did you get another bounce? 16:39:16 * sbp checks 16:39:24 yes 16:39:49 hmmph -- mu2.espnow.com needs to recheck its MX records. 16:41:27 Hmm... dinner's nearly ready 16:41:33 Gotta run 16:41:35 sbp has quit 16:48:03 deltab, wanna do me a favor and set up something in smtproutes to stop this? 16:49:33 * AaronSw thinks Ian should set up a public w3c-sucks mailing list ;-) 16:51:26 I'm losing a lot of mail :-( 16:53:59 Shoooot, we're bombing! 16:54:10 Bush: "time is running out" 16:54:12 For what? 17:12:40 logster, grep 100 WFM 17:12:46 I'm logging. I found 33 answers for 'WFM' 17:12:47 0) 2001-10-07 17:12:40 logster, grep 100 WFM 17:12:48 1) 2001-10-01 07:36:10 WFM, it's 8:37AM. AM! 17:12:49 2) 2001-09-26 19:55:54 WFM, it connected on the first attempt 17:12:50 3) 2001-09-21 02:15:27 WFM 17:12:51 4) 2001-09-21 01:43:50 WFM, no results! 17:12:52 5) 2001-09-21 01:43:11 neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en 17:12:53 6) 2001-09-21 01:08:02 "00:43:23 * sbp coins WFM" - http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-21.txt 17:12:54 7) 2001-09-21 01:02:51 Sean, did you submit WFM to acronymfinder? 17:12:55 8) 2001-09-21 00:56:00 WFM 17:12:56 9) 2001-09-21 00:53:35 * sbp wonders about http://www.acronymfinder.com/add.asp?acronym=WFM 17:12:57 10) 2001-09-21 00:47:17 WFM? 17:12:58 11) 2001-09-21 00:46:42 WFM, this is getting to be a weird conversation 17:12:59 12) 2001-09-21 00:45:59 I'm always frightened of saying WFM, because of the responses it gets, but now... aha! 17:13:00 13) 2001-09-21 00:44:33 WFM, why can't tav guess what "WFM" stand for? 17:13:01 14) 2001-09-21 00:44:10 WFM, Aaron did become the W3C director 17:13:02 15) 2001-09-21 00:43:59 WFM, she's sexy 17:13:03 16) 2001-09-21 00:43:49 WFM, another new acronym! 17:13:04 17) 2001-09-21 00:43:23 * sbp coins WFM 17:13:05 18) 2001-09-21 02:15:27 WFM 17:13:06 19) 2001-09-21 01:43:50 WFM, no results! 17:13:07 20) 2001-09-21 01:43:11 neat: http://www.google.com/search?q=WFM+%22well+fuck+me%22&hl=en 17:58:07 The truth behind our new war, from Tony Blair: 17:58:08 WE ACT ALSO BECAUSE THE AL 17:58:09 QAEDA NETWORK AND THE 17:58:09 TALIBAN REGIME ARE FUNDED IN 17:58:09 LARGE PART ON THE DRUGS 17:58:09 TRADE, 90% OF ALL THE HEROIN 17:58:10 SOLD ON BRITISH STREETS 17:58:12 ORIGINATES FROM AFGHANISTAN. 17:58:14 STOPPING THAT TRADE IS, 17:58:16 AGAIN, DIRECTLY IN OUR 17:58:18 INTERESTS. 17:59:11 Toscanini's Website: DANGER! ICE CREAM IS DELICIOUS! 17:59:36 - http://www.tosci.com/ 18:00:28 tav has quit 18:05:54 tav has joined #swhack 18:51:51 Alcohol advertising returns to US TV [http://media.guardian.co.uk/advertising/story/0,7492,563918,00.html] 19:06:18 ... Catching up on news. From 9/18: 19:06:29 "ABC News has decided it has aired enough replays of last week's catastrophic terrorist attack on New York's World Trade Center." - Good for them! 19:33:12 sbp has joined #swhack 19:40:24 sbp has quit 19:47:38 whoops. missed sbp 19:47:51 AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza: We're in! 20:51:10 AaronSw has changed the topic to: TiVo Hacking Extravaganza: TiVo gets it's data thru HTTP GET from the TiVo server! 20:56:02 form encoding sves the day again! 20:58:54 sbp has joined #swhack 20:59:05 whoo, this is awesome! 20:59:08 Hi sbp! 21:00:10 Oh man, what now... :-) 21:00:15 Hi Aaron. TiVo? 21:00:22 Yup. 21:00:43 It's as if I designed it -- they really did things Right. 21:00:50 lol!!! 21:01:34 HTTP GET, POST with x-www-form-urlencoded 21:01:34 Object-Oriented Tcl to manage it all 21:01:34 And of course the bash shell. 21:01:40 I need to meet the guy who engineered this! 21:01:43 :-) 21:03:05 * sbp has just been carefully reading the #swhack logs 21:03:29 WFM, what was all the acroynm stuff about? 21:04:37 heh... logger didn't do exactly what I expected 21:04:37 I was trying to show deltab what WFM meant 21:05:31 ah 21:05:46 what were those cool words that we coined? 21:05:52 When? 21:06:09 logster, grep phenomic 21:06:26 I'm logging. I found 8 answers for 'phenomic' (showing 0...4) 21:06:27 0) 2001-10-07 21:06:09 logster, grep phenomic 21:06:28 1) 2001-10-05 01:41:42 Chas Munat pointed me to a seemingly phenomic page: http://karljahn.tripod.com/lang/words.htm 21:06:29 2) 2001-09-30 14:07:19 Why not? It's phenomic. 21:06:30 3) 2001-09-24 02:25:17 phenomic, phenomic, phenomic 21:06:31 4) 2001-09-24 02:25:12 phenomic 21:06:31 logseter, hello? 21:06:31 er... 21:06:43 between here and the validator (thanks for activating logger...) 21:06:58 there's a logger in the validator? 21:07:00 tav` has joined #swhack 21:07:15 ah, exispeciferous 21:07:21 http://blogspace.com/swhack/chatlogs/2001-09-24.txt 21:07:35